Yeeeeeeah...I don't expect us seeing anything for Lumineth until the Tyrionic side of things is ready with at least one more Aelementari Temple. The chariot is a one-line reference, which accompanies a description of the Tyrionic side of things mentioning scouts, chariots, and artillery specialists.
Idoneth are most likely, if anything, to get an Embailor(finally!) and some kind of 'warbeast' unit.
Cities, if anything happens? I think it will be closer to when The Old World drops or when fluff establishes some new cities. Greatswords definitely aren't one of the kits that need to be redone though.
RazorEdge wrote: Some HIGHLY SPECULATIVE Ideas what I think, what we could see:
Cities of Sigmar:
-New Freeguild Models to replace older KIts (ex. Great Swords)
Why? Just.. why? It can be argued that they badly fit the AoS setting (far too historical, and they even look somewhat out of place with many other Empire sets that did away with the puff and slash sleeves etcetera), but as models go they are neither particularly old nor have they aged badly. Excellent detail on them; perhaps not the most dynamic, but having them all flail about like Night Goblin Fanatics won't be a good look for them anyway.
-New Driads
Dryads seem fine too. Completely new unit would be far more interesting.
Skaven
-New Plague Priest
-New Rat Ogres
-New Plaguemonks
-Warpseer (mentioned in the Rulebook in 2018)
Plague Monks feel borderline okay to me, and slightly less of a priority than the Night Runners which are completely in the old style (as are the Monks I suppose, but it hardly shows due to the robes). It's a lovely set with all their Mordheim weapon options, but it just doesn't look good anymore. Also Globadiers, also Jezzails, also several Weapon Teams - I think some of them are still in metal! And others Finecast, arguably worse even if pretending to be more modern... I guess that's the price of not having your range decimated in the transition to AoS; there's still a lot of old stuff floating about compared to some others. It feels too much for the "campaign" (although the AdMech got several new kits in PA, so all bets are off), but the Skaven do feel among those most in need of several new sets. GW could do worse than to make a Plague Monk/Censer Bearer dual kit, a Night/Gutter Runner kit, a Weapon Team/Jezzail kit, and maybe something for Globadiers/Engineers. Plug Rat Ogres of course, I thought those looked a bit poor when released, and they certainly haven't improved over the years! Then again, it also feels like luxury, when they at least have many other sets already, and the poor Flesh-eater Courts basically have nothing to begin with...
Armies being small is not a problem; even big armies may end up being smaller than the low-cost ones in effect because only a tiny fraction of the options are viable. Even something as small as FeC or Fyreslayers could be plenty if every option were useful.
I think AoS works well with small armies balance wise for sure. Heck Flesheaters and Daughers of Khaine have both been overpowered in the game at various points.
The issue as I see it is one of choice, diversity and collecting. As a player and collector I'm less likely to build a dozen armies and many people are often loyal to "their army". So having very few actual models to choose from can mean that they burn out rather fast. Meanwhile armies with a lot more diversity can sustain people for longer because there's more options to choose from
As a game I think it also means that AoS has fewer niches and options compared to a larger wargame. If you look at 40K you've got jumpjet fliers; aircraft; anti air; anti vehicles; vehicles; infantry; elites; leaders etc... Each block has its own ups and downs and it adds layers to the game.
AoS is quite bland in comparison. It doesn't even separate cavalry and infantry. Meanwhile some niches like Artillery are not fully supported in all armies. So there are whole niches totally untouched by some groups.
I think that steadily getting more options and variety would be a good thing. Daughters of Khaine running lots of Witch Aelves looks fantastic, but it will be nice when there's more choices on offer - shadow beasts; shadow assassins (getting those soon it seems with warcry); matches; snake leaders (getting one of them!); endless spells; more cavalry (witches on horses!) etc...
I think we can pretty much sum up the Seraphon Rumour Engine images as being teasers from the Underworlds warband coming with Season 4 which GW have already confirmed and even shown us a chameleon skink for.
Really, the Lizardmen are, at this point, asking for a DE scale range overhaul and update. Saurus, Skinks, Slann, Kroak and Salamanders all date back to 6th edition Fantasy. You can legally take your Saurus out drinking now btw - the kit is that old.
That and a significant chunk of the Range - most of the characters, the Hunting Packs, chameleon skinks and Kroxigor are Finecast.
I could happily see updated kits at some point - but the rumour engine images are not these. They're the Underworld's Warband. And who knows, maybe it'll have some nice Chameleon Skinks and a nice Priest model we can make use of. Possibly even a kroxigor?
I really hope for at least one (and hopefully two) Saurus warriors, or a warrior and a temple guard. I really want to see the design direction they will go in for a revamped range, and a underworlds sample platter would he perfect for that!
We know the Underworlds warband has a Chameleon Skink. There's a picture of it in the "Shadow, Iron, and Broken Realms" community posting and the thread I ran for it.
Cronch wrote: They can't update the plastic saurus without updating the heroes, cause they'd look even worse if they did.
Well, the current 'heroes' are literally special character remnants. If they do update them I'd expect something along the lines of the Carnosaur rider or Blood Bowl Saurus. Bigger, bulkier, thicker tails, larger headcrests with more scales overall. At the moment the current Saurus are very thin and wiry for what they are supposed to be.
Yes, but that means they can't just release the saurus warriors and knights, they'd need to refresh the Guards (fairly new kits as far as lizards go) and then the eternity guardian, sunblood, astrolith bearer...and I don't think they'd settle for 1 kit for all 3? They don't really do multi-hero kits anymore.
Skaven are much the same in needing a revamp toa lot of models, ideally at once.
That said GW could steadily update things here and there; it really depends. Big releases get a lot of attention and Seraphon getting a massive update would be a huge seller for them (even with an old battletome and older models they still sell really well - I recall their Christmas battleforce being one of the first for AOS to sell out a few years back).
But as we've seen with Eldar and many other races, GW is equally happy to drip feed updates as they are to do big releases. My view is I don't mind if its all in one or a dripfeed so long as its a constant steady progress forward toward updating
I wish they’d never come up with saurus knights or whatever they are. The old skink cold-one riders were a much better concept than yet-another-heavy-cavalry-unit. It’s just a pity that oldhammer was not in a position to allow them to shine as skirmishing cavalry was just not mechanically useful on planet bowling green, aka where WFB battles were all fought.
Cronch wrote: Yes, but that means they can't just release the saurus warriors and knights, they'd need to refresh the Guards (fairly new kits as far as lizards go) and then the eternity guardian, sunblood, astrolith bearer...and I don't think they'd settle for 1 kit for all 3? They don't really do multi-hero kits anymore.
Slaves to Darkness got updated Warriors and Knights in the form of the Start Collecting set without Chosen or Exalted Heroes being touched, so I don't think GW particularly care about the difference in style and quality. And there's already an updated Saurus in the form of the Carnosaur Oldblood, which is, what, seven years old now? They're not in a hurry to keep things uniform.
Cronch wrote: Yes, but that means they can't just release the saurus warriors and knights, they'd need to refresh the Guards (fairly new kits as far as lizards go) and then the eternity guardian, sunblood, astrolith bearer...and I don't think they'd settle for 1 kit for all 3? They don't really do multi-hero kits anymore.
First - The Eternity Guardian is a big, chonky boy already. He's fine. Same with the Sunblood. He's especially chonky so would fit the bigger Saurus aesthetic as well. The Astrolith bearer is a fugly model in itself. I'd not mind seeing it redone - they have been known to quickly re-do fugly models. Notice that Terradons literally swapped to the new kit after a single edition of Fantasy because the ugly Kangaroodons didn't go down well.
The Saurus kit is almost old enough to legally take out drinking in the UK. The Skinks, Salamanders and Slann all fall into this sad category.
The Temple Guard are already bigger than normal Saurus and thicker as well. They'd not need such a rework. The Saurus Knights are bigger and meant to be a different breed so work there too.
Really, Lizards need less stuff in finecast or direct only. At the moment the range is pitiful - you can only get the Start Collecting boxes, Guard and Skinks from a GW store. The rest is all direct only. And currently the Hunting Packs, Chameleon Skinks, Kroxigor and Slann are all finecast.
A plastic Slann/Kroak kit would be good.
A reworked Skink kit with options for Chameleon Skinks.
Plastic Hunting pack that builds Sallies or Razordons.
And to be fair, you could easily just do a new Saurus kit on its own.
As far as characters go? Bar the Astrolith bearer they're fine.
You know, i wasn't actually interested in getting one originally. But with all the faffing around in waiting for the release, it's actually made me tempted to pick one up.
@Darkstarsaber
The guardian and sunblood (sunblood less so) and the guard plastic kit all look like slightly beefier "frog" saurus based on the 6th edition plastic looks, just larger. They look nothing like the carnosaur hero (or the blood bowl lizards) in terms of design so they would still clash.
As for the SoBs, any idea on pricing on the big boyes?
Cronch wrote: @Darkstarsaber
The guardian and sunblood (sunblood less so) and the guard plastic kit all look like slightly beefier "frog" saurus based on the 6th edition plastic looks, just larger. They look nothing like the carnosaur hero (or the blood bowl lizards) in terms of design so they would still clash.
As for the SoBs, any idea on pricing on the big boyes?
No word yet but I’d be surprised if anything would be below $80.
The books are known, sure- but I'm of the opinion that its will include (or lead to next year as the series conclusion) mortals of Slaanesh getting released.
So I'm hoping we get glimpses of that, and any other releases put out along the way.
We're probably not seeing mortals of Slaanesh coming this year, given that Hedonites was one of the most recent books.
Broken Realms is, at best guess, the 'psychic awakening' for AoS 2.5. We might see one or two more books/big releases, but we're more likely to see some smaller stuff.
On a different note though, looking at the shields around the warstompers waist there is a certain shield the looks very "elfy" but doesn't seem to match any shields currently in any range- which is a bit strange considering all the other shields visible are exact matches, even the now OOP (I think?) Knights excelsior shield from the upgrade sprue. :(
Lol, GW just loves rubbing salt in that wound for you. I imagine it is worse that you briefly had the rules for shields, showing that GW at least knew of their existence, then had the option taken away to underscore just how much GW does not care about the elf half of Wood Elves.
€20 more than the current most expensive AoS kit and the Imperial Knights - about £120 $200! and you’ll need multiples 3 Mega Gargants is almost (or more in dollars) the price of a PS5, XBSX that’s mad money
Don't forget the kit has a good few optional parts inside; whilst a lot of the other big kits are often purely a monobuild. Or they are like the Necron Obilisk in that it has a duel build but its minor parts whilst the core is the same.
Most are also in 40K which is more popular so it might be a combination of an army that is expected to sell poorly at its onset, but at the same time is likely to sell models at a decent rate for their price to be used as allies in other armies. The kind of force where you build an army because you run 2 armies in different Grand Alliances already and have 2 giants to ally into them so you build a Sons army because its a modest cost on top of what you've already spent.
Unless you can actually build multiple models or easily magnetize it, having multiple options in the kit should have zero bearing on the price, you're only ever building one option from it anyway.
150 euro is in no way a sensible price for a toy kit, assuming the above is actually right.And here I thought Teclis was absurdly priced.
And multiple options don’t add anything to the production price between two similar sized models with the same amount of sprues. And none of that explains why the smaller giant which was £25 each when released 13 odd years ago is now £75 for 2.
ImAGeek wrote: And multiple options don’t add anything to the production price between two similar sized models with the same amount of sprues. And none of that explains why the smaller giant which was £25 each when released 13 odd years ago is now £75 for 2.
13 years? So 2007. 25 pounds then is 35 pounds now so ok 5 pound price hike.
ImAGeek wrote: And multiple options don’t add anything to the production price between two similar sized models with the same amount of sprues. And none of that explains why the smaller giant which was £25 each when released 13 odd years ago is now £75 for 2.
13 years? So 2007. 25 pounds then is 35 pounds now so ok 5 pound price hike.
(you don't expect to pay 25 pounds now do you?)
For the same models, yes. Or at least, I don’t expect to pay a significantly higher price for 14 year old models. Especially as they did a double box of them relatively recently for I think 40 quid, so it’s £35 more for the same thing.
ImAGeek wrote: And multiple options don’t add anything to the production price between two similar sized models with the same amount of sprues. And none of that explains why the smaller giant which was £25 each when released 13 odd years ago is now £75 for 2.
13 years? So 2007. 25 pounds then is 35 pounds now so ok 5 pound price hike.
(you don't expect to pay 25 pounds now do you?)
For the same models, yes. Or at least, I don’t expect to pay a significantly higher price for 14 year old models. Especially as they did a double box of them relatively recently for I think 40 quid, so it’s £35 more for the same thing.
Edit: it was £45.
So I'm sure you are fine your work paying same price as in 2007? Remove all pay rises.
You DO know right thre's thing called inlfation? Same bread you eat now as you ate then costs more. Your rent for same building isn't same now as it was then. Your clothes cost more even if they are same.
Oh and if it was 45£ in 2007 now it would be 59£ so it's actually hefty discount.
ImAGeek wrote: And multiple options don’t add anything to the production price between two similar sized models with the same amount of sprues. And none of that explains why the smaller giant which was £25 each when released 13 odd years ago is now £75 for 2.
13 years? So 2007. 25 pounds then is 35 pounds now so ok 5 pound price hike.
(you don't expect to pay 25 pounds now do you?)
For the same models, yes. Or at least, I don’t expect to pay a significantly higher price for 14 year old models. Especially as they did a double box of them relatively recently for I think 40 quid, so it’s £35 more for the same thing.
Edit: it was £45.
So I'm sure you are fine your work paying same price as in 2007? Remove all pay rises.
You DO know right thre's thing called inlfation? Same bread you eat now as you ate then costs more. Your rent for same building isn't same now as it was then. Your clothes cost more even if they are same.
I get that, and tbh if it wasn’t for the double box it probably wouldn’t be an issue, but 2 giants aren’t worth £75 to me when they were £45 recently. That’s not inflation, that’s taking the piss.
It was £45 for two during Age of Sigmar, not £45 for one when it first came out.
So I'm sure you are fine your work paying same price as in 2007? Remove all pay rises.
I'm fairly sure in some industries we're *now* hitting the same pay levels as pre 2008 great depression.Well, were before 2020 geat depression.
Also, that is beside the point. As a consumer, my only interest is paying as little as possible for the product. I don't care about GW bottom line, that's their CEO's responsibility. Whatever price they set, it is too high, because it's in my best interest to pay 0 GBP if possible.
ImAGeek wrote: And multiple options don’t add anything to the production price between two similar sized models with the same amount of sprues. And none of that explains why the smaller giant which was £25 each when released 13 odd years ago is now £75 for 2.
13 years? So 2007. 25 pounds then is 35 pounds now so ok 5 pound price hike.
(you don't expect to pay 25 pounds now do you?)
For the same models, yes. Or at least, I don’t expect to pay a significantly higher price for 14 year old models. Especially as they did a double box of them relatively recently for I think 40 quid, so it’s £35 more for the same thing.
Edit: it was £45.
So I'm sure you are fine your work paying same price as in 2007? Remove all pay rises.
You DO know right thre's thing called inlfation? Same bread you eat now as you ate then costs more. Your rent for same building isn't same now as it was then. Your clothes cost more even if they are same.
I get that, and tbh if it wasn’t for the double box it probably wouldn’t be an issue, but 2 giants aren’t worth £75 to me when they were £45 recently. That’s not inflation, that’s taking the piss.
It was £45 for two during Age of Sigmar, not £45 for one when it first came out.
that 45 pound box was a discount box, not a regulair kit
Have an 'old' invoice from my local store dated May 2018 'Aleguzzler Gargants: Colossal Crushers × 1 £35.10' . I think they did an extra discount due to it not selling at the time. This same kit is now going to be over £75 rrp?
We'll probably see the older giant crammed into start collecting and bundle boxes now. They had one in the Ironjawz bundle awhile ago, despite them not being in their armybook.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Much as I don't like the price, doing a kit with multiple builds is more work than doing 2 different kits,
you've got to model things so the shared parts work for all the optional build, and the more different they look, the more work it is to do
And yet for the customer it's pure downside, we have an army that will consist of 3 models and they all look identical below the waist. GW's total investment into this entire faction was 3 sprues and it's one of the more expensive ones to build a 2000 list for.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Much as I don't like the price, doing a kit with multiple builds is more work than doing 2 different kits,
you've got to model things so the shared parts work for all the optional build, and the more different they look, the more work it is to do
And yet for the customer it's pure downside, we have an army that will consist of 3 models and they all look identical below the waist. GW's total investment into this entire faction was 3 sprues and it's one of the more expensive ones to build a 2000 list for.
The Mega-Gargants aren't Battleline. You'd need to have something in there to run a legal force. The 'standard' Gargants, which are a hell of a customizable kit, are the Battleline unit.
I'd rather have a single option for 100 euros than one kit that builds 1 of 3 options for 150 and leaves you with pile of plastic you ain't ever going to use. Even with the discount I have, that's still flying rodent gak bs expensive.
Garbo prices, garbo sprues with the usual "new GW" thin pieces looking like they'll snap during removal from sprues. I went from "MEH" to "sort of interested, maybe add one to my ogors" to "MEH" again over the 6 months from their initial teasing.
They definitely seem to be trying to see if they can be as popular as Imperial Knights initially were in 40K, but I feel that giants are a much harder aesthetic to easily mesh with the wider range of factions in AoS compared to 40K, where Imperials are largely more standardized when it comes to their look.
Mr Morden wrote: Given some of the Tech in the Mortal Realms they could just stat up the Imperial Knight for Dispossed or Cities of Sigmar.
But GW is very averse to cross selling.
Yeah, Kharadron Overlords are already an example of the higher end of technology in the Mortal Realms. I'm pretty sure the only cross game faction that uses the same models are Daemons for obvious reasons.
I was hoping to use this as my foray into AOS, but I do t think I can easily justify the models.if they're over £100 each. Ha and people say Warhammer fantasy was expensive.
howie wrote: I was hoping to use this as my foray into AOS, but I do t think I can easily justify the models.if they're over £100 each. Ha and people say Warhammer fantasy was expensive.
I think if you want a cheaper way into AoS look at Warcry instead. On box and you've got a warband for the multiple Slaves to Darkness ones and Daughters of Khaine are getting a warband next month in a new boxed set. Again one purchase and you've got a full band that can work in warcry and be taken into AoS. Regular armies work too, of course, but you might need two or three boxes to get a viable warband (it varies).
Or you could look at Flesheaters who are mostly just in their Getting Started boxed set.
Man I hope those prices are BS. That is staggeringly expensive. I was expecting them to be in the range of the mountain elf god-cow, a little more. But geez!
Mr Morden wrote: Hoping we get a female Gargant at some point - unless they reproduce differently....
They’re Namekians.
Seriously, Sigmar killed the first one and he barfed up his son, who presumably barfed up the rest of them. All that’s missing is the egg stage.
That price will kill the army, both the Mega and the reboxed classic giant. Unless they are absurdly OP (which TBF is very much possible) those prices will seriously curb any kind of interest in even using them as allies, let alone a full army of them.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That price is a bitter pill to swallow. A shame, I'd get it just for the heck of building one too if it was under triple digits.
At least the hexmark and balloon dwarf seems to be in somewhat reasonable territory for GW character kits.
There was literally zero chance the Mega-Gargant was ever going to be under triple digits. We've known how big it was since the announcement.
We saw a similar image to this with the announce way back when.
$194.99 is a high price...but that ain't a small kit. It looks to be on par with if not bigger than the Dominus class Knights. Automatically Appended Next Post:
NinthMusketeer wrote: That price will kill the army, both the Mega and the reboxed classic giant. Unless they are absurdly OP (which TBF is very much possible) those prices will seriously curb any kind of interest in even using them as allies, let alone a full army of them.
The rebox is two giants, not one.
Current price is $65 for a single. It goes to $124.99 for 2. There's a slight savings built in.
It might be a model that sells more in person when people see it in a shop and see it in comparison to other models they own and other big models. Sometimes internet photos just don't do a model proper justice.
This may sound like a dumb question, but does anyone actually want a giant “army”?
I mean, 40K Knights get a lot of mileage and that’s been the big comparison I’ve seen, but a lot of that is because they are characterised as Knights; noble protectors who ride their mighty steeds into battle to defend the people from ravening monsters.
These guys are the ravening monsters.
They don’t even have much personality to help like all the other ‘bad guy’ factions do; their entire thing is wandering around stomping on the little guy and taking whatever they want without fear or favour just because they can. Which, okay, is a good allegory for corporate capitalism but GW forgot to give them bastardised company names like the Crusher of Burton Halley or Odiferous Brecht so even that seems to be missing.
So, seriously, who are these for? Not even lil’ Timmy is likely to be impressed by a big plastic that-guy-mommy-says-I-shouldn’t-talk-to, surely?
You might as well ask that for any army - who wants Ossiarchs or Luminoth or Idoneth or Giants?
Different armies appeal for different reasons to different people.
Giants might appeal to those who want a powerful army built around exceptionally few models. Or perhaps the player just bought a giant for using in another army and liked it enough to buy another to go in another army - suddenly they've 50% of a giants army why not get the tome and try the army out for real.
Perhaps they love to paint and want to shift from smaller to some really big models to use different painting techniques
Perhaps they really love stories of old fantasy with giants and ogors and great godlike titans walking the lands. And here we have that without having to wait 20 years for GW to make "Warmaster AoS edition"
I do agree, Knights have a lot more lore, but you can say that about pretty much every AoS army that isn't cut up or from the Old World setting.
But saying that big stomping giants who are gruff, rough and mean can't be popular is underestimating the power and diversity of imagination.
Ogres already fill that niche, and look somewhat unique. Those are big enough that they just look like a bunch of ugly guys the GW sculptor saw during his pub crawl. Not very "fantasy" for fantasy monsters.
Mr_Rose wrote: This may sound like a dumb question, but does anyone actually want a giant “army”?
I mean, yeah? I'd also like an army where it's nothing but trolls. If it was cheaper, it would be funny to have a mega gargant with three or so smaller giants around him. Sure, it's a hefty investment, but it's also really all the models you need for the army. If you can actually get through painting it, that's it. No more expenses, no more painting, etc. So there is a lot of appeal
Mr_Rose wrote: This may sound like a dumb question, but does anyone actually want a giant “army”?
I mean, yeah? I'd also like an army where it's nothing but trolls. If it was cheaper, it would be funny to have a mega gargant with three or so smaller giants around him. Sure, it's a hefty investment, but it's also really all the models you need for the army. If you can actually get through painting it, that's it. No more expenses, no more painting, etc. So there is a lot of appeal
Currently involved in painting Weathertop via just Contrast(via airbrush and sponging) and drybrushing...it's totally doable with the right color palette!
Also, troggoth army is real. Gloomspite Gitz. There's an article in the new WD too.
The optics of buying two normal giants for a triple digit price are much worse than buying a single giant for a double digit price. Ditto for the Mega-Gargant being at the $200 mark (in USD) verses something like $175 or, dare I say, $160.
There WAS interest in SoB as their own army, but now?
There's shockingly little customization to be seen.
A shot of five has duplicates of the bearded one and the hooded one. They... painted the hair a different color and swapped out the belly shield for a different one.
I guess you can mix and match between the giant types, but part of the point of the themes is to be recognizable for the three different stat-sheets.
Gallahad wrote: Geez, I don't know how you guys afford this stuff. $175 USD for a big monster mini... That is bonkers.
When these fail to sell what are they going to do, do a double box for $300?
I've backed several Kickstarters in the $300 range, but at least there I'm usually getting a ton for my money (both new games and miniatures).
I think you are underestimating how many people there are who can buy. Hell one guy is planning to buy 9...As it is if I had interest I COULD afford it for monthly hobby budget. As it is 2k of these is only slightly more expensive than 2k lumineth and on flipside at least due to lack of model options the price is pretty set(unlike lumineth who have plenty of options).
It's matter of do you want that 2k army or not. AOS armies arent' cheap anyway. If you want cheaper GW game try LOTR. Great rules, much more reasonable. Sub 100$ will get you going strong.
Wonder how easy those would be to magnetize btw? If you can magnetize options it's more cheaper to get complete force than many other armies.
NinthMusketeer wrote:The optics of buying two normal giants for a triple digit price are much worse than buying a single giant for a double digit price. Ditto for the Mega-Gargant being at the $200 mark (in USD) verses something like $175 or, dare I say, $160.
There WAS interest in SoB as their own army, but now?
Not just optics. I've had the giant on my wishlist just as a random hobby project - deck him out with things from the bits box from various factions, maybe build him up to try and fit in with a particular faction who hired him. It's a fun model, and the right kind of price for a big centrepiece to have some fun with. I don't want two though. Despite all the bits in the kit, the similarities will clearly stand out, unless putting yet more hours into changing the pose and resculpting whole sections. Maybe I'll eventually pick one up from ebay now, but won't be buying one from GW then, since they don't want to sell me just the one anymore.
And yes, if similarities were visible in the old kit, the new one is certainly worse. The repeated pose continues to be nicely hidden by choosing different camera angles or obscuring parts from view, but that's something that's only going to become more obvious when seeing the models in real life. Normally not a major issue when it's a single centrepiece, but when it's an army consisting of just the one kit (or two, if using the old giant)... again, unless someone puts in a good few hours to repose them, it's not actually going to be a very impressive and nice looking army I wager. Just a rather nice massive giant sculpt, who quickly loses his appeal by being clearly duplicated several times within the army.
Dysartes wrote:
Overread wrote: Well if we bring resin into it and FW resin then there's that Tau Manta ship
Who mentioned FW resin? Smaug is available - when he's available - through GW itself, not FW.
He's still cast in FW resin though - it's in the product description: "Smaug™ is made from the same resin as Forge World miniatures."
The price is actually back to stupid again, shame.
Main reason I’ve been waiting for them is just rules, I’ll be converting my own one for my armies.
On the flip side, I did pick up 3 of the double giant kits a while back when they were clearing stock.
If memory serves it was around £50-£55 or so? Per set.
At the new pricing I think they lost a lot of potential customers for SoB armies.
While no one was expecting “cheap” models, lines like OBR surprised people with much lower than expected prices for the most part.
The worrying part is they tend to use rules to force sales, so these guys will be on top for a while I’d assume.
They get extra sales through allies but I doubt it’s enough.
Eh rules to force sales is a totally random dice roll from GW. Sometimes a new army is brokenly powerful, sometimes its not.
It used to be much more the case, but back then codex updates were months and months apart and were nearly always a big model release too. So everything was updated, there were lots of new things and a good chunk of armies might not even have an updated codex for a long while. So you had new-hotness codex running around with a lot of out of date ones. Even in 2.0 for AoS we saw that new battletomes were more powerful in general and armies without them suffered (Slaves to Darkness coming last suffered the longest).
GW does sometimes use rules to push thing s- Slaanesh for AoS clearly is using the depravity rules to push leaders which was about all GW updated in models for the line when it came out. Yet the only non-leader new model - the fantastic looking fiends - is actually somewhat underpowered and not often taken. So its not really a great strategy.
Honestly considering how often GW seems to muck up with rules I don't think there's any grand strategy behind linking releases to rules to drive sales. It's far too random.
Giants might be brokenly powerful; or not. AoS does small count armies rather well and I've not heard of the dragon force for Flesheaters being broken. Gotrek for a time was considered broken, but in general people have learned that a single high power model can be avoided or mitigated. Giants might well suffer like Ossiarchs in that they can likely win in attrition, but will lose out because they can't hold all objectives at once easily. Or they might be easier to crumble by focusing fire on one of a handful of targets.
Galas wrote: And I bought 2 NIB gargants 2 years ago for 40€... and now 2 are 100€.
Wow. The bigger giants are cool but no 150€ cool.
so you're comparing a discount bundle to a regulair kit
And why not? It has the same content, 2 plastic giant kits. What do I care how GW classifies the product? I want a good deal, and this is a horrible deal compared to when they were previously on sale in the same form.
Mantic has 18cm and 19cm tall giants(regular giant bit over 10cm it seems). How good proxies these would be? Much more cheaper and even if you get one or two official would help with same base model syndrome refered above. In fact if you would get say 1 official and 1 of both mantic ones maybe one could mix spare parts and make it work? That sounds bit more feasible. 35€ for one, 59€ for the other, 150€ for GW, 244 for 3 different giant models. Or 210e if you go for 2 of the cheaper mantic ones and don't mind 2 nearly same looking model.
Galas wrote: And I bought 2 NIB gargants 2 years ago for 40€... and now 2 are 100€.
Wow. The bigger giants are cool but no 150€ cool.
so you're comparing a discount bundle to a regulair kit
And why not? It has the same content, 2 plastic giant kits. What do I care how GW classifies the product? I want a good deal, and this is a horrible deal compared to when they were previously on sale in the same form.
You know what? I think I figured out why I don’t like the sons of behemat: they aren’t the Sky Titans.
Frankly, bigger ‘orribler giants are boring, for the same reason the cannibal giants in the BFG are bit parts at best.
Bigger, ‘orribler giants with culture and feth-off huge cannon? Now that’s a class act.
I suggested that(and the frost giant) from mantic as well Wonder how comparable size(height and overall bulk) they are and how easy it will be using spare bits from official. You could get 3 for bit over 240e combining official and mantic ones. Much more cheap than 450e and top of that each 3 would be on different base model! That could be worth it even without price issue...
From photos the GW new ones don't seem like over twice the height of giant(bit over 10cm) so these shouldn't be shorter at least. Might be thinner though.
I was interested in maybe an all Giant army, but now it seems like at best I'll be running the Mantic model as a mercenary.
Kind of works out since I like the Mantic model, but its size difference against the old GW giant meant it didn't work as a replacement for that one, but he looks like he'll work fine as a replacement for these new ones, though he looks like he'll be a bit taller and lankier.
Another option might be the Mountain Jotnar from Para Bellum Games' Conquest line.
It's plastic, roughly 14cm to the top of its head, has a few optional bits and heads, and is a bit thicker and rotund than a lot of the other giants out there.
He tends to cost around 50 ~ 65 USD depending on where you get him.
tneva82 wrote: Mantic has 18cm and 19cm tall giants(regular giant bit over 10cm it seems). How good proxies these would be? Much more cheaper and even if you get one or two official would help with same base model syndrome refered above. In fact if you would get say 1 official and 1 of both mantic ones maybe one could mix spare parts and make it work? That sounds bit more feasible. 35€ for one, 59€ for the other, 150€ for GW, 244 for 3 different giant models. Or 210e if you go for 2 of the cheaper mantic ones and don't mind 2 nearly same looking model.
the Mantic Giant has options to make 2 different models (as different as the GW models are) and Resin upgrades for a 3rd
the Para Bellum Giant as there as well with some optional bits
So you get 5 different Giants from those 2 kits for 250€ with 2 and 3 of them look similar without conversions, were you get 2 similar looking ones for 300 from GW
If you ever want to play such an army, no reason not going with the Mantic Giant here
Mr_Rose wrote: This may sound like a dumb question, but does anyone actually want a giant “army”?
I mean, 40K Knights get a lot of mileage and that’s been the big comparison I’ve seen, but a lot of that is because they are characterised as Knights; noble protectors who ride their mighty steeds into battle to defend the people from ravening monsters.
These guys are the ravening monsters.
They don’t even have much personality to help like all the other ‘bad guy’ factions do; their entire thing is wandering around stomping on the little guy and taking whatever they want without fear or favour just because they can. Which, okay, is a good allegory for corporate capitalism but GW forgot to give them bastardised company names like the Crusher of Burton Halley or Odiferous Brecht so even that seems to be missing.
So, seriously, who are these for? Not even lil’ Timmy is likely to be impressed by a big plastic that-guy-mommy-says-I-shouldn’t-talk-to, surely?
I would like an army of giants--just not giants that look like GW giants.
they also have a three varients of him too, (in the banelord line) with different weapons & heads so if you want to run all 3 GW varients you can have them look different
(you can also buy the bits separately so you could play with magnets or pegs if you were so inclined)
You know, I don't get what GW was thinking. There is like 20 companies making giants model already, and instead of sidestepping them with something new, they walked right into being ridiculed by offering laziest execution of the concept. Why not play on 'Realm of Beasts' or 'Godbeast' theme and make something like this, stuff no one else is likely to have in their range?
I was excited for Sons of Behemat because I was expecting plate-clad giant-warriors more similar to warcraft's Vrykul or even with some greek or ancient aesthetics, as others have said, more similar to Sky Titans. It would have been cool to have some civilization, and giant nonetheless in destruction.
But we have just bigger drunken giants. They are cool miniatures but... as Irbis and many others said, is just more of the same. With a price as big as them.
Yeah, they had a “mysterious race of even bigger giants” already in the ‘ancient’ fluff - it would have been awesome to see the Sky Titans return in some form; they could have been antagonists of the Kharadrons who are forever raiding their herds of sky-beasts, for example.
Almost no-one has intelligent giants with guns as a faction.
Galas wrote: I was excited for Sons of Behemat because I was expecting plate-clad giant-warriors more similar to warcraft's Vrykul or even with some greek or ancient aesthetics, as others have said, more similar to Sky Titans. It would have been cool to have some civilization, and giant nonetheless in destruction.
But we have just bigger drunken giants. They are cool miniatures but... as Irbis and many others said, is just more of the same. With a price as big as them.
Definitely just more of the same. Jump up and down, smash with club, pick up and hurl, pick up and stuff (in bag). I think they missed out on 'yell and bawl.' I'd love the call back if it wasn't the sum total of the rules beyond 'be $200 bullet sponge'
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, they had a “mysterious race of even bigger giants” already in the ‘ancient’ fluff - it would have been awesome to see the Sky Titans return in some form; they could have been antagonists of the Kharadrons who are forever raiding their herds of sky-beasts, for example.
Almost no-one has intelligent giants with guns as a faction.
Are Sky-Titans even in AoS? Because I don't remember reading anything about them in AoS at the moment.
I guess for people that bought the bonegrinder FW giant, they're in luck.
Wait, that's a first. The bonegrinder is the same size (a bit bigger, right?) than the mega gargant. But its also cheaper, since its $175 USD. Who would have thought FW is the cheaper option?
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, they had a “mysterious race of even bigger giants” already in the ‘ancient’ fluff - it would have been awesome to see the Sky Titans return in some form; they could have been antagonists of the Kharadrons who are forever raiding their herds of sky-beasts, for example.
Almost no-one has intelligent giants with guns as a faction.
Are Sky-Titans even in AoS? Because I don't remember reading anything about them in AoS at the moment.
They could have been if GW wanted them to be. That's pretty much how it works.
Would also have loved to see the Sky Titans, far more so than what are really just bigger regular giants. I feel the old giants wouldn't have looked as out of place next to a new aesthetic either if they were clearly meant to be different things (so enslaved, broken creatures now perhaps escaped, alongside Sky Titans of old), rather than what are essentially the same figures with one of them just in what seems to be a different scale.
Would have loved to grab one even just to paint up and sit on a book shelf but damn , for that price I can grab all of the lord of the rings bits I’m after and still have a whole lot of cash spare.
Rolsheen wrote: Are Mancrusher Gargants battleline for Sons of Behemat? The photo with the points doesn't show that bit
yes they're, you can field them in units of 1-3. And you even get a horde discount if you take 3, with the added bonus that a unit of 3 counts as 3 battleline (its in the GHB 2020 matched play profile book)
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, they had a “mysterious race of even bigger giants” already in the ‘ancient’ fluff - it would have been awesome to see the Sky Titans return in some form; they could have been antagonists of the Kharadrons who are forever raiding their herds of sky-beasts, for example.
Almost no-one has intelligent giants with guns as a faction.
Are Sky-Titans even in AoS? Because I don't remember reading anything about them in AoS at the moment.
Yes, the Ogor book mentions them, as does the lore for sons of behemat I think? They lived on the Funny Croissant in Ghyran, and ogors picked up the remnants of their weapons to turn into ironblaster cannons.
xKillGorex wrote: Would have loved to grab one even just to paint up and sit on a book shelf but damn , for that price I can grab all of the lord of the rings bits I’m after and still have a whole lot of cash spare.
Same here sadly. I've been asking myself; ''Should I pay 150e on a single model I would only be getting to paint as I don't atm play Sigmar? Or shall I spend 150e and buy loads of blisters and boxes for LOTR, a game I am currently both playing and painting??''
And I'm upset at the price 'coz I loved these guys since their first reveal.
Cronch wrote: I really don't say that often, but the small lore bits on "Fierce Loathing" table are peak cringe.
What, you don't hate people wearing pants?
Kanluwen wrote: Can't say I'm super shocked that the Mega-Gargants are $195 when they build all the variants.
What "variants"? They have zero variants, that's the problem. 3 different heads and some decoration bits. That's all. Hell, if you look at entries of these "variants" you will see identical loadouts, just with slightly different mechanic of establishing 5-10 attacks of BIG STICK. Much wow.
Old giant kit at least builds the half-beast giant with horns and hooves, new one doesn't do anything like that, which is pretty sad.
Honestly even looking at the pictures on the community site... They just don't look that good on the table. They just look out of scale and out of place.
With that price they'll probably sell about ten...
I think it is a bit premature to suppose that what we've gotten comprehensively sets the tone for the entire faction. Thus far it has only 2 kits. Units derived from each kit are, rules wise, designed to be optionally included in other armies. Considering these factors, I don't think that GW fully intends to stop here with the Sons of Behemat, but rather this is just a starting point. Much as it has been for many of the new factions in AoS. Some have definitely gotten loads of new models, as they were meant to replace previously existing factions from WHF, for which the models are fabulously old. However, this is an entirely new faction, not before seen in WHF or AoS, so they are totally starting from scratch as far as aesthetics, art direction and cultural exploration goes.
Indeed, from what I can derive from the lore, these Mega-gargants (okay, the name is sort of silly, but what isn't these days?) are less degenerate than their Mancrusher and Aleguzzler siblings. It even shows in the models. Their faces have more symmetry and they have hair. Their proportions are less gangly and better muscled. It clearly shows some genetic recovery (it seems implied they reproduce through some form of budding, or parthenogenesis....I'm overthinking it). I would hope these indicators, combined with the fact that Sky-Titans/intelligent and encultured Giants...ahem sorry...Gargants existed in the past, that they are on their way to having them again.
I'd hope the next model they release in a couple years is a dual Sky-Titan cannon wielder and Wizard/Shaman model, followed by some truly gigantic warmachine (Magic Flying Tower?). Storywise, it would be nice to see a clear progression of them back to their former glory and size.
All this being said....the prices are sort of unreasonable.
Cronch wrote: I really don't say that often, but the small lore bits on "Fierce Loathing" table are peak cringe.
What, you don't hate people wearing pants?
Kanluwen wrote: Can't say I'm super shocked that the Mega-Gargants are $195 when they build all the variants.
What "variants"? They have zero variants, that's the problem. 3 different heads and some decoration bits. That's all. Hell, if you look at entries of these "variants" you will see identical loadouts, just with slightly different mechanic of establishing 5-10 attacks of BIG STICK. Much wow.
Old giant kit at least builds the half-beast giant with horns and hooves, new one doesn't do anything like that, which is pretty sad.
Gallahad wrote: Honestly even looking at the pictures on the community site... They just don't look that good on the table. They just look out of scale and out of place.
Yeah, that's nonsense. The new giant's sculpting style meshes with the AoS aesthetic that's been there since the game was launched, it has a number of human sized bits (even a complete human) to give a sense of scale and tie it in with all the human sized models running around the board that define the game's scale, and it appears to me that the sculptor specifically altered its anatomy in such a way as to avoid the impression that it's just a wrongly scaled human.
A lot of effort has been put into making it mesh. But feel free to explain how else GW could have gone about it.
Gallahad wrote: With that price they'll probably sell about ten...
I suspect it will sell a lot more than that and as a consequence GW will feel vindicated and continue to put stupid prices on models new and old.
They will sell like hot cakes, like almost everything GW releases, especially the Big Toys, because seemingly GW fans would rather play 1:10 wargame than 28mm.
Gallahad wrote: With that price they'll probably sell about ten...
I suspect it will sell a lot more than that and as a consequence GW will feel vindicated and continue to put stupid prices on models new and old.
Seeing there's guy planning to buy 9 it's pretty safe to say more than 10 ;-)
People just have habit of thinking "I don't like it, thus nobody in the world can like it"
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Cronch wrote: They will sell like hot cakes, like almost everything GW releases, especially the Big Toys, because seemingly GW fans would rather play 1:10 wargame than 28mm.
1:10/28mm, it's scale. Not size of miniature. If you want to represent 50m tall model in 28mm scale model you need to make it "bit" bigger than 4-5cm tall(would actually need 77cm tall model But it would still be 28mm scale)
My only issue with GW making bigger and bigger models is the practicalities of transporting them. One bonus of focusing on infantry and having rare vehicles and the like is that you can pack an army very easily into a case - heck the old one-cast metals were really easy so long as they didn't have spears/pikes
But today we've a lot of infantry with a lot of flare to the design; which look fantastic, but take up a lot of room to pack.
Lots of big toys look utterly amazing, but at the same time you're left scratching your head how to get them into the box to get to the game store.
tneva82 wrote: True that. Though magnets have sorted issue for me as long as I don't want to carry like 4000+ pts with me
Magnets are fast becoming the only practical way for a lot of armies; at least for general home-to-shop transport. Air travel might be different, but then chances are you've got a bit more luggage space and can afford to take bigger cases chock full of foam. Still its a rising issue that bigger models, esp at the infantry to elite stage, start to really make it harder to carry more models.
Overread wrote: My only issue with GW making bigger and bigger models is the practicalities of transporting them. One bonus of focusing on infantry and having rare vehicles and the like is that you can pack an army very easily into a case - heck the old one-cast metals were really easy so long as they didn't have spears/pikes
But today we've a lot of infantry with a lot of flare to the design; which look fantastic, but take up a lot of room to pack.
Lots of big toys look utterly amazing, but at the same time you're left scratching your head how to get them into the box to get to the game store.
Irritation for me is that GW’s carry cases themselves are excellent. Decently solid, and more than up to the job.
But.....the foam??? It’s ok for infantry sized models, and even monstrous infantry. But anything bigger and it’s not so great.
You’d think GW wouldn’t miss the Battlefoam trick. I mean, it’s pretty much phree munneh for them. We all want to transport out models safely and securely, no? And whilst I’m not casting aspersions at Battlefoam (just in case!) I can’t imagine the machinery needed is terribly expensive, nor dare I say complicated? Certainly not by GW’s standards anyway.
I mean, they can charge a premium on tools and gubbins as is, not just because of the label, but because it’s an endorsement that they’re up to snuff, and the buyer need not worry. So they can do the same for foam trays we can buy with confidence, knowing exactly which GW Carry Case they’ll fit, and how many.
Agreed. If I were GW I'd not only be making cases, I'd be making magnetic cases and then having either magnet slots on my own bases or bases sold with magnets in them etc.. Or a magnet upgrade kit.
In theory GW should have the entire Battlefoam system in-house. Being able to release custom foam shapes and magnetic trays and such and cases all in time for new release launches.
That said I think GW has just chosen not to invest in this area themsleves, even their new merchandise line is a 3rd party firm. When you look at their tools, some are custom and some are just off the shelf rebranded because there's a huge market for rebranded tools. Custom cases for Warhammer there isn't so they can't just rebrand something, they either have to make it in house (new staff, new machines, new factory, new overseas china factory etc..)or hire a 3rd party and both of those might eat into early profits.
It might also be that GW staff just haven't really thought about doing it in a serious way for whatever reason .
Cronch wrote: They will sell like hot cakes, like almost everything GW releases, especially the Big Toys, because seemingly GW fans would rather play 1:10 wargame than 28mm.
1:10/28mm, it's scale. Not size of miniature. If you want to represent 50m tall model in 28mm scale model you need to make it "bit" bigger than 4-5cm tall(would actually need 77cm tall model But it would still be 28mm scale)
I appreciate the petty correction, though 1:10 is scale while 28mm is not a scale, it's just a random number or "human height" picked by gaming companies, if we are playing pointless corrections game.
Overread wrote: Agreed. If I were GW I'd not only be making cases, I'd be making magnetic cases and then having either magnet slots on my own bases or bases sold with magnets in them etc.. Or a magnet upgrade kit.
I concur. Fragility and unisuitably for foam-lined cases is one of my main beefs with modern GW miniature aesthetics, and an in-house magnet solution would be an obvious way to address it.
What's annoying is GW bases have a gap at the bottom which is, far as I can tell, in the 0.5mm range. So either you have to shave magnets or you have to use a spacer (greenstuff) to get a flush fit.
Overread wrote: What's annoying is GW bases have a gap at the bottom which is, far as I can tell, in the 0.5mm range. So either you have to shave magnets or you have to use a spacer (greenstuff) to get a flush fit.
2mm magnets is what i have found to be perfect fit. Ebay gets you those cheaply
The Chaos version of the Mega Gargant looks really good next to other Chaos minis. It’s tempting but for the cost of one you can buy a few of those 12-14 inch Marvel Legends action figures and enough green stuff and bits to turn them into Mega Gargants. You’d get more variety from their body shapes alone than you get from this kit if you bought a Hulk, a Wolverine, and a Spider-Man.
zend wrote: The Chaos version of the Mega Gargant looks really good next to other Chaos minis.
Less "Chaos version", more "Chaos friendly". Could look even better with some extra work on the part of someone knowing they want to run Grunnock.
It’s tempting but for the cost of one you can buy a few of those 12-14 inch Marvel Legends action figures and enough green stuff and bits to turn them into Mega Gargants. You’d get more variety from their body shapes alone than you get from this kit if you bought a Hulk, a Wolverine, and a Spider-Man.
And unless you're running a Sons of Behemat army? You're not going to care about "variety from their body shapes". You're fielding one, tops.
I really like the look of these models (although every time I hear the word "Gargant" I think of Ork Titans) and was considering buying one just to paint and maybe just maybe it would get me to get into Age Of Sigmar...
However while I wasn't expecting the model to be cheap £120 puts me off getting one especially as it would probably just end up being a painted model for my shelf.
Although my least favorite build, I like that the Gatebreaker is the one with Death. I'm guessing his hood is made from discarded Nighthaunt robes or something.
It would be cool to do paint them up like a bunch of night goblin robes too. Except the price kinda stops me from committing.
zend wrote: The Chaos version of the Mega Gargant looks really good next to other Chaos minis.
Less "Chaos version", more "Chaos friendly". Could look even better with some extra work on the part of someone knowing they want to run Grunnock.
It’s tempting but for the cost of one you can buy a few of those 12-14 inch Marvel Legends action figures and enough green stuff and bits to turn them into Mega Gargants. You’d get more variety from their body shapes alone than you get from this kit if you bought a Hulk, a Wolverine, and a Spider-Man.
And unless you're running a Sons of Behemat army? You're not going to care about "variety from their body shapes". You're fielding one, tops.
Thought has been put into this.
Yeah, this is more of a Gargant army idea unless you really want all of your mercenary Gargants to look competely different.
So the earring jar/lamp can make the Krakeneater into a wizard. That's fancy.
The lack of variety is kind of sad, though. All the krakeneaters have this fancy ear piece, so why is Bundo so special?
Going back to warhammer fantasy, it's like any ogre tyrant could have scepter of the skytitans (Greasus), or an orc could have a special crown like Azhag stole from Nagash, or any troll could have the Wintertooth crown that Throgg the trollking had on his tooth.
I guess my biggest disappointment is the lack of variety. Every mega gargant build makes the same looking model. There aren't any special heads or bits to differentiate the named gargants from the basic ones. Why bother making named ones when they could easily just say "Only Order can ally with Krakeneaters" and give the player the option to make their own themed gargant
GaroRobe wrote: So the earring jar/lamp can make the Krakeneater into a wizard. That's fancy.
The lack of variety is kind of sad, though. All the krakeneaters have this fancy ear piece, so why is Bundo so special?
Going back to warhammer fantasy, it's like any ogre tyrant could have scepter of the skytitans (Greasus), or an orc could have a special crown like Azhag stole from Nagash, or any troll could have the Wintertooth crown that Throgg the trollking had on his tooth.
It's especially sad seeing variety of bits on old giant. Slave trappings for ogre giant, beastly for beastmen one, mutated for chaos, etc, etc, you could not only make them look like they belonged in the army with far more than just a paint job, there would be like 10 "variants" of them if rule writers were tryharding as hard as current ones do with new kit. Not to mention possibility of hundreds of potential bit combinations to make them look differently, instead of just 3 clones with different heads.
And I have no idea why some people defend it bEcAuSe YoU OnLy nEeD oNe. Even if you only buy one, people want to create their own armies, not just paint the exact same thing as everyone else, and a kit that expensive having close to zero options, decorative bits, and poseability is just laughable.
GaroRobe wrote: So the earring jar/lamp can make the Krakeneater into a wizard. That's fancy.
The lack of variety is kind of sad, though. All the krakeneaters have this fancy ear piece, so why is Bundo so special?
Going back to warhammer fantasy, it's like any ogre tyrant could have scepter of the skytitans (Greasus), or an orc could have a special crown like Azhag stole from Nagash, or any troll could have the Wintertooth crown that Throgg the trollking had on his tooth.
It's especially sad seeing variety of bits on old giant. Slave trappings for ogre giant, beastly for beastmen one, mutated for chaos, etc, etc, you could not only make them look like they belonged in the army with far more than just a paint job, there would be like 10 "variants" of them if rule writers were tryharding as hard as current ones do with new kit. Not to mention possibility of hundreds of potential bit combinations to make them look differently, instead of just 3 clones with different heads.
And I have no idea why some people defend it bEcAuSe YoU OnLy nEeD oNe. Even if you only buy one, people want to create their own armies, not just paint the exact same thing as everyone else, and a kit that expensive having close to zero options, decorative bits, and poseability is just laughable.
I think the power of conversion is being overlooked here. Swapping bits and sticking on new ones for a kit like this is literally just that. Anyone can do it with nothing more than the same tools they use to assemble the kit. Yes, this is not as cool as having a bunch of options in the kit. But I think I speak for many when I say it would be better to have the price drop to represent the contents than have the contents increase to match the price. I would rather than than have half the sprue space unused when I finish assembly, which definitely happens with some of the high-option kits.
For anyone curious Elementgames seems to have the cheapest Giants, at 100 Euros each. Still pricey, but that 50 Euros off is a lot. I always wondered how they make profits with such massive discounts.
But I think I speak for many when I say it would be better to have the price drop to represent the contents than have the contents increase to match the price.
Either or, really. Right now it's neither. But yes, I'd gladly collect an army (even if some of them are super-goofy) if the mega giants were priced at the same point as say, a leviadon or even the 2-giant box of mancrushers.
GaroRobe wrote: They're currently $165 USD on Ebay, which is a lot more appealing. Still a lot, but this is closer to the price they should have been at.
That sounds expensive for a Kurt Angle figure, if I'm honest.
GaroRobe wrote: They're currently $165 USD on Ebay, which is a lot more appealing. Still a lot, but this is closer to the price they should have been at.
That sounds expensive for a Kurt Angle figure, if I'm honest.
The Kurt Angle collectible market is insane. But at least you know you're getting a quality gargant out of it
GaroRobe wrote: They're currently $165 USD on Ebay, which is a lot more appealing. Still a lot, but this is closer to the price they should have been at.
That sounds expensive for a Kurt Angle figure, if I'm honest.
The Kurt Angle collectible market is insane. But at least you know you're getting a quality gargant out of it
Why waste time and money trying to get a creepy action figure to look like a giant? Over at the Plastic Craic Blog they are running a couple articles compiling all the third party manufacturers out there. There are plenty of options to choose from.
Personally I don't think the sculpts are that special and probably fall into the trap of multipart kits that need to be more functional rather than unique.
Could not justify buying one when I can sculpt one for myself at a fraction of the price.
I think these will sell quite well considering that they can be included on most factions and you need 2 or 3 for your army.
All in all good model and probably fun to paint but at that price I rather give something else a try.
One thing that might be affecting price could be that whilst they can be taken in any force, they aren't a multiplier model. Chances are Sons players will buy 3 and that's it. That's not just every Giant they "need" its every Son's model they need near enough. So unlike most other armies where big things go alongside smaller things, Sons is just big things.
So it might be that, when the account is viewed at the army wide level, the price on them has gone up to reflect that there's no cheaper troops that will be bought in greater numbers to help balance the books. Meanwhile other big models are typically within armies that will have those other models to help balance the books out.
But its only a theory and likely only one potential contributing factor in the price.
so pretty much like Knights were when they launched
and they were not even close to that price by the time
110€ compared to 150€ now and they were mostly Addons to other armies
the Original GW Plastic Knight was just a one model Mercenary for all armies and was 35€ released
if it would be only one army to get those models at a maximum of 4, maybe, but with all factions having access the "low model count for sales" does not justify the price
the theory does not hold. not with something like Archeon or Glotkin around that are same size or larger and only selling to one model to one faction
by that logic Archeon must cost 400€ and GW would still lose money on him
I think Old-GW is back on track, the Community has forgotten what happend and it is time to milk the cow until it dies (and blame to Community again for not being dedicated enough)
they focus again on the whales who by anything not matter the price and are now just testing how far they can go
the next big model will be 130-140 and people will praise GW that they listen and how cheap everything now is
Why waste time and money trying to get a creepy action figure to look like a giant? Over at the Plastic Craic Blog they are running a couple articles compiling all the third party manufacturers out there. There are plenty of options to choose from.
For the same reason why you would go for an all Mantic Gargant army, to troll those people who payed more for one model than you for your whole army
Why waste time and money trying to get a creepy action figure to look like a giant? Over at the Plastic Craic Blog they are running a couple articles compiling all the third party manufacturers out there. There are plenty of options to choose from.
For the same reason why you would go for an all Mantic Gargant army, to troll those people who payed more for one model than you for your whole army
Think you missed my point. Why waste time trying to get the Kurt Angle figure to look good when for a little more you can get the Mantic Giant or a bunch of other well priced options?
for the same reason, to troll
not everyone is into giants or similar minis, but going to convert WWF Minis and play AoS with them can be fun if you like them
not everything must be taken serious and if you want to troll, take the ones you like the most
I am just lucky that there are no Events at the moment because of Covid, otherwise I would have already ordered 3 Mantic Giants and 3 smaller ones (possibly Reaper) just for fun to play with a budget army (and proof people wrong that Mantic is going away from "affordable Wargming Miniatures" concept)
This one model cost more than my entire Gnoll army... from the price tag I was expecting a very big model, from the photo above it seems that the Mantic giant is taller.
Still, it has a GW logo slapped on it, so it will sell like hot cakes.
It's a shame because it really is a fantastic miniature, comfortably my favourite giant sculpt. I just can't justify the asking price. Here in Japan I could buy a series X for the price of two of these. This is compounded by the fact that I haven't seen a single store that offers the kind of discounts that are common elsewhere. I'm looking forward to the new warcry starter but I'm dreading the price.
Historically, GW starters have been pretty good value. I am not too concerned.
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stonehorse wrote: This one model cost more than my entire Gnoll army... from the price tag I was expecting a very big model, from the photo above it seems that the Mantic giant is taller.
Still, it has a GW logo slapped on it, so it will sell like hot cakes.
Not so sure myself. The mid 2010s showed that there is definitely a limit to what fans will tolerate. The 'GW fans will buy anything' argument has only ever been an idea raised by people who choose not to understand that others can like a product more than them. Not to mention income disparity. Someone making 100k a year has a very different viewpoint on a given price point than someone making 20k.
On top of that other companies will release models that GW would be absolutely skewered over if they did a release of the same quality. Yet said companies will get little to no criticism for it exactly because the price point is lower. There is a big element of getting what one pays for. Does GW set ridiculous prices? Absolutely, but reducing it down to 'GW fans will buy everything' is naive at BEST.
Chikout wrote: It's a shame because it really is a fantastic miniature, comfortably my favourite giant sculpt. I just can't justify the asking price. Here in Japan I could buy a series X for the price of two of these. This is compounded by the fact that I haven't seen a single store that offers the kind of discounts that are common elsewhere. I'm looking forward to the new warcry starter but I'm dreading the price.
When covid19 finally ends come to Taiwan then, the store I go to offers at least some discounts and gives freebies (brushes, paints, etc) as you buy more stuff lol
Overread wrote: One thing that might be affecting price could be that whilst they can be taken in any force, they aren't a multiplier model. Chances are Sons players will buy 3 and that's it. That's not just every Giant they "need" its every Son's model they need near enough. So unlike most other armies where big things go alongside smaller things, Sons is just big things.
So it might be that, when the account is viewed at the army wide level, the price on them has gone up to reflect that there's no cheaper troops that will be bought in greater numbers to help balance the books. Meanwhile other big models are typically within armies that will have those other models to help balance the books out.
But its only a theory and likely only one potential contributing factor in the price.
Im really not clear on how things are priced at GW what is the criteria?
I think what you mentioned is probably right and I also think that other points would influence the final tag. The number of the sprues, how many can you built from the box, the size and the GW artificial inflation tax on all new kits, how many need to be sold to meet the profitability/production goals...
Theres probably loads more but for us consumers we just look at comparable models like Archaoan and Glotkin and wonder why?
GaroRobe wrote: They're currently $165 USD on Ebay, which is a lot more appealing. Still a lot, but this is closer to the price they should have been at.
That sounds expensive for a Kurt Angle figure, if I'm honest.
The Kurt Angle collectible market is insane. But at least you know you're getting a quality gargant out of it
Why waste time and money trying to get a creepy action figure to look like a giant? Over at the Plastic Craic Blog they are running a couple articles compiling all the third party manufacturers out there. There are plenty of options to choose from.
Im really not clear on how things are priced at GW what is the criteria?
the one point that is a fixed cost are the number of sprues
a sprue needs a steel molding form if you want to make more models
this costs a lot and the more sprues there are, the higher are the costs
it does not matter how many options are there or how many models you can make from it
if Archaon is one sprue and the Giant has 2, the base costs are doubled
everything else are variable costs that do not really matter (people mention the designer needs to be paid too and while true, those work for GW with a monthly income and are not paid per model they do, this is accounted as variable cost but needed more hours for one model than the other won't make the model significant more expensive unless GW wants it that way)
yet Archaon and the MG have 3 large sprues and the Giant has an additional small 4th sprue with bits
this is something that adds in cost, like Mantic once said, it is cheaper to add the bits to a different kit and let people cut the parts out and pack them by hand with the other kit than adding another sprue no matter how small it is
so it could be that this one sprue of optional bits is why this model is much more expensive than other large kits with the same amount of sprues
but from a costumer point of view, paying extra for options you don't need without a choice is a bad thing
making it 3 boxes with 2 sprues each for 90€ and the bits sprue and mail order option for 15€ everything would be alright
Cronch wrote: honestly, I don't care and neither should you. Why should we care about company's bottom line?
Cause a company operating below their bottom line fast ends up a company no longer producing products we can buy. Heck the Spartan Games fans have been waiting YEARS to get Dystopian Wars and such back after they folded and Warcradle picked up what was left (in what I gather was not a smooth hand over since Spartan went fully to the wall with the administrators). If fans have no concept of the bottom line and no respect for it and demand prices cheaper than is sane for the firm to produce then, well, we end up losing out.
Actually Warhammer fans are most interested in the bottom line than most. It's the only hobby I know of where when the shareholder meetings happen we actually talk about it as well even if we aren't involved. The links get shown, debated, discussed. This is quite abnormal, most hobbies I'm into the key companies are rarely talked about any where near to the same level of depth. It's mostly "Oh they are rich/poor" level comments.
Agreed, they are more like a standard giant rather than a mega one, especially when compared to other big AoS minis or other gianst like Mantic or Conquest ones.
Cronch wrote: honestly, I don't care and neither should you. Why should we care about company's bottom line?
Cause a company operating below their bottom line fast ends up a company no longer producing products we can buy. Heck the Spartan Games fans have been waiting YEARS to get Dystopian Wars and such back after they folded and Warcradle picked up what was left (in what I gather was not a smooth hand over since Spartan went fully to the wall with the administrators). If fans have no concept of the bottom line and no respect for it and demand prices cheaper than is sane for the firm to produce then, well, we end up losing out.
Don't care. Not my business as a consumer to care for the company. If they can't figure out a way to provide goods at an acceptable price and stay in the black they are a bad company and deserve to close shop, that's how capitalism works.
Now, I know GW is in zero danger of closing shop, but i hate the "we should care what the bottom line of a corporation is" defense of any and all pricing decisions. Not our job, that's what the overpaid nurgle infestation they call CEOS are for.
I see is less of a defence and more of a simple explanation as to why sometimes prices don't seem to line up with our expectations.
The same happens in other areas. Eg you might spot a really simple change to a computer game that would improve the game; however the average user having no idea how coding works might not realise that what appears to be a very simple change, could be a complex series of changes behind the scenes. Thus why some "easy fixes" appear to take far longer to be put into effect by developers.
Again its more a case of the more you know the more you can appreciate or understand the reasoning behind what might appear unreasonable or odd choices that a company makes. It doesn't excuse the company making bad choices - heck its regularly argued that some of GW's internal policies do result in problems - eg how secrecy between departments results in strange situations as a result of a breakdown of communications (eg balancing changing a base size but it never getting through the packing and shipping).
It's by no means a defence, just an understanding. The great one's understanding the greater ones potential appreciation is; but also the greater the chance that valid arguments can be made when the company does make mistakes.
Not sure what they mean by low-effort. We've known that Giants was going to be a 1 model launch for a long long time now.
That said I wonder how many who are outraged are simply those looking to get a model and how many were properly going to start the army. My impression is those who love the concept and want it are annoyed but buying into it; whilst those who are more angry about it tend to be those who are more into model collecting sides of things; or who would only buy it if it was really cheap = ergo they might not have been customers even if the giants were £100 or £80 or whatever.
I don't see any problem talking about what potentially makes this kit so expensive and bottomline being one of the bulletpoints of the arguments.
Sure some don't care about but others do and debate it... its called a forum for a reason.
Besides it Don't see any of the arguments as defensive but more in line how can I justify to myself investing in this? Why did this got to be so expensive?
GW stock levels seem to always be on low side due to constant sold outs ( even before covid production issues) I do wonder if they don't intend to sell that many of these kits. They need to be clever about breaking points and when a X product no longer is in their interest to keep on constantly casting/packing and distributing. Seems like their production comes in waves of restocking but that the initial release is always short on product.
Lets see if giants sell out... I doubt they will XD
GW was hoping to resolve the stock issues this year. They got a new warhousing system setup and a new factory. It's really corona throwing up huge issues with industry and shipping which has basically prevented those things from taking effect and easing the supply issues. Especially for overseas customers where stocks rely on fewer big updates instead of a steady stream.
GW stock levels seem to always be on low side due to constant sold outs ( even before covid production issues) I do wonder if they don't intend to sell that many of these kits. They need to be clever about breaking points and when a X product no longer is in their interest to keep on constantly casting/packing and distributing. Seems like their production comes in waves of restocking but that the initial release is always short on product.
GW produces in Waves, if the initial Wave is gone they need wait for the next free slot in the production schedule
yet to reduce cost for storage the better you estimate the demand and the closer your first Wave production is the better
GW also calculates that the first Wave sales need to cover the whole cost, everything after that is just a bonus (same as movie studios calculate that the US Box Office need to cover the costs and the movie is considered a fail if not, even if the worldwide sales and non-cinema releases are many times the initial costs)
Therefore, the initial Wave will be enough models to cover the production costs and make profit, but not enough to have a big stock of models that just adds cost for nothing
If GW now expects low number of sales the first they do is to reduce production cost by changing the mold material from steel to aluminium
which is much cheaper but they are also worn out faster which is not a problem if you don't expect to make many models in the first place (this is what they do with limited Character releases)
Overread wrote: Not sure what they mean by low-effort. We've known that Giants was going to be a 1 model launch for a long long time now.
That said I wonder how many who are outraged are simply those looking to get a model and how many were properly going to start the army. My impression is those who love the concept and want it are annoyed but buying into it; whilst those who are more angry about it tend to be those who are more into model collecting sides of things; or who would only buy it if it was really cheap = ergo they might not have been customers even if the giants were £100 or £80 or whatever.
That's an easy enough question to answer for GW. Look at battletome sales vs gargant sales. I've seen a local guy literally order the SoB tome and cards and 3 Mantic giants today at the FLGS.
Is there are good explainer for why GW's prices are so much higher than comparably complex Gunpla models?
I know whenever GW's pricing gets raised people love to jump to their defense citing the cost of amortizing the molds, R&D, etc. but those costs also apply to Gundam kits that have and equal or greater number of sprues, are more complex SKUs (more sprues to kit, more colors, etc.), but cost a quarter of the price of the SoB models.
Is it just a matter of Bandai being a larger company and they are able to avail themselves of a different scale of manufacturing? Is the audience that much bigger where the Gunpla community can drive sales even of niche kits to such levels that economies of scale work their magic? Is it just the tax of supporting the game system?
Main reason is GW's costumers are willing to pay the price and want to play the GW games
there is no Game to sell Gunpla, so demand to buy a specific Kit
Hence if the kits cost more people just buy something else
also the scale model market (which Gunpla kind of belongs to) attracts different people and those have a different "feeling" for prices
no one is going to pay 60€ for a M4A1 Sherman unless it is a superior kit coming with all kind of fancy details
and no one would be using such a kit for gaming at all as there is no game that requires you to use that specific kit and other tank model would work
GW also is inside their own bubble
their Marketing is build around that "GW is the Hobby and there is nothing else"
While most people who buy Gundam models know what else is on the market, while most GW costumers think they are the only one and there is no one else doing similar products
(no matter if it is models, colours or terrain)
of course a difference is also that GW is producing in Europe while Bandai is in Asia, yet other manufacturer are producing in Europe as well and are not as expensive as GW
GW wants to sell a Premium Product and not just toys everyone can afford
they want to keep their closed environment of people willing to pay the premium price
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BuFFo wrote: The Mantic Frost Giant does nothing for me.
Is there another giant they have that I'm missing?
Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
Two hundred bucks for a single model is pretty absurd regardless of size. These things are very likely smaller than Archaon (definitely are from a bulk perspective) and somehow cost more? I can’t imagine these will sell particularly well.
Overread wrote: Not sure what they mean by low-effort. We've known that Giants was going to be a 1 model launch for a long long time now.
That said I wonder how many who are outraged are simply those looking to get a model and how many were properly going to start the army. My impression is those who love the concept and want it are annoyed but buying into it; whilst those who are more angry about it tend to be those who are more into model collecting sides of things; or who would only buy it if it was really cheap = ergo they might not have been customers even if the giants were £100 or £80 or whatever.
That's an easy enough question to answer for GW. Look at battletome sales vs gargant sales. I've seen a local guy literally order the SoB tome and cards and 3 Mantic giants today at the FLGS.
I was really confused for a minute there what this had to do with the Sisters of Battle...
Overread wrote: Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
as is the scale model market, a reason why GW is slowly shifting torwards those as the market is bigger and people are more willing to pay more for less models (as they only buy 1 Box anyway) than the Wargaming crowd
flaherty wrote: Is there are good explainer for why GW's prices are so much higher than comparably complex Gunpla models?
I know whenever GW's pricing gets raised people love to jump to their defense citing the cost of amortizing the molds, R&D, etc. but those costs also apply to Gundam kits that have and equal or greater number of sprues, are more complex SKUs (more sprues to kit, more colors, etc.), but cost a quarter of the price of the SoB models.
Is it just a matter of Bandai being a larger company and they are able to avail themselves of a different scale of manufacturing? Is the audience that much bigger where the Gunpla community can drive sales even of niche kits to such levels that economies of scale work their magic? Is it just the tax of supporting the game system?
1. There aren't any comparably complex Gunpla models. They're all flat geometric panels.
2. There are a lot of people in Asia. Many of them like anime.
Overread wrote: Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
as is the scale model market, a reason why GW is slowly shifting torwards those as the market is bigger and people are more willing to pay more for less models (as they only buy 1 Box anyway) than the Wargaming crowd
How is GW shifting toward the scale model market?
I've seen them shift somewhat toward boardgames here and there, but broadly speaking I've not seen any shift from GW toward what one might consider closer to an airfix or similar kit. If anything GW is heading the other way with fewer detailed parts rather than more.
Overread wrote: Not sure what they mean by low-effort. We've known that Giants was going to be a 1 model launch for a long long time now.
That said I wonder how many who are outraged are simply those looking to get a model and how many were properly going to start the army. My impression is those who love the concept and want it are annoyed but buying into it; whilst those who are more angry about it tend to be those who are more into model collecting sides of things; or who would only buy it if it was really cheap = ergo they might not have been customers even if the giants were £100 or £80 or whatever.
That's an easy enough question to answer for GW. Look at battletome sales vs gargant sales. I've seen a local guy literally order the SoB tome and cards and 3 Mantic giants today at the FLGS.
I was really confused for a minute there what this had to do with the Sisters of Battle...
Overread wrote: Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
Yeah, this. The gunpla crowd is vastly larger than wargamers as a whole which is in turn larger than GW wargamers and the AoS part of that is smaller again. Also, places like Mantic make sure to advertise to RPG groups as well, which is yet another huge target audience while GW barely advertises outside of it’s established customer base, leaving that to third party license holders.
Overread wrote: Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
Yeah, this. The gunpla crowd is vastly larger than wargamers as a whole which is in turn larger than GW wargamers and the AoS part of that is smaller again. Also, places like Mantic make sure to advertise to RPG groups as well, which is yet another huge target audience while GW barely advertises outside of it’s established customer base, leaving that to third party license holders.
Another point is the Gunpla market produces in Asia whilst GW produces almost all its models in the UK so there's a significant difference in the likely labour and tax situation.
Interestingly though I'd note that GW likely has the better international distribution of its brand. At least whenever I look at a lot of the mecha style models and anime side of things I see a decentish amount makes it to the USA, but the EU market is very undersupplied - often not getting products (very annoying for anime when there's a USA translation but no UK/EU release)
I can see why GW doesn't go for the RP market as much since GW does and has done RPG games of its own. At the same time the DnD crowd is happy with things like prepainted models; mould lines; no paint; really cheap 2 colour paint jobs etc.. It's a LONG way for the "Hobby" that GW has built up into a core part of its brand and products over the years.
Oh deary me, GW gonna continue to have a healthy mix of the rich and the ignorant as a customer base...
Just go with Mantic, Heresy (been meaning to pick up Mucklegeet for a while) or just grab a Mag the Mighty figure from the ol' GOT collector's figure magazine run. I got one a few years ago direct from Eaglemoss for about £20. He stands 15cm tall.
They're not currently available from Eaglemoss, but you can still get him on eBay.
CragHack wrote: Limited edition armybook is still in stock in all major regions. Says something about the popularity of this release...
Not really. LE army books vary wildly as to how quickly they sell through. Part of that is if there are bundles including them, if the army is one that already has a built-in fanbase, etc etc etc.
CragHack wrote: Limited edition armybook is still in stock in all major regions. Says something about the popularity of this release...
Not really - brand new armies haven't sold particularly powerfully on limited editions in general. GW's limited editions are just a slightly different cover and a book mark tassle. It's not really a lot for double the price so they don't tend to sell all that well for a brand new army which, by its nature, has no vast fanbase. People are more likely to spend that extra on models because they don't have any at all. Luminoth, Idoneth, Ossiarchs all saw a similar pattern. Lumintoh perhaps a bit more because their release hit at the same time as Corona and they didn't get their real release until much later etc....
Overread wrote: Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
as is the scale model market, a reason why GW is slowly shifting torwards those as the market is bigger and people are more willing to pay more for less models (as they only buy 1 Box anyway) than the Wargaming crowd
How is GW shifting toward the scale model market?
I've seen them shift somewhat toward boardgames here and there, but broadly speaking I've not seen any shift from GW toward what one might consider closer to an airfix or similar kit. If anything GW is heading the other way with fewer detailed parts rather than more.
it is not about model detail but what models are for
Monopose models with 5 different poses per Box and "dynamic" details and the Heroes-Sets they made
this targets more those who make a Diorama with those 5 models or want to put a Squad on the shelf than for people who play with them and need 20 or more (and having 4 times the same dynamic model on the table looks less good than if there are just 5)
I have now seen more Reavers in Dioramas than used for gaming (I know this is a personal impression and no general thing, but kits like those seems to be more attracting to the model crowed than the gaming crowed)
kodos wrote: while most GW costumers think they are the only one and there is no one else doing similar products
Any evidence for that?
except for the local store crowds and players in closed groups, no
kind of those people who search the web and talk on open groups/clubs are not all or the majority of the GW costumers
and it is always kind of funny to talk to people and those are surprised that Acrylic Colours suitable to paint GW models are available outside the GW store (like when people ask that they cannot order Citadel from Amazon and lockdown prevents them from going to the GW store so they have no possibility to get any colours to paint are not really believing that Vallejo or Army Paint can be used too)
Overread wrote: Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
as is the scale model market, a reason why GW is slowly shifting torwards those as the market is bigger and people are more willing to pay more for less models (as they only buy 1 Box anyway) than the Wargaming crowd
How is GW shifting toward the scale model market?
I've seen them shift somewhat toward boardgames here and there, but broadly speaking I've not seen any shift from GW toward what one might consider closer to an airfix or similar kit. If anything GW is heading the other way with fewer detailed parts rather than more.
it is not about model detail but what models are for
Monopose models with 5 different poses per Box and "dynamic" details and the Heroes-Sets they made
this targets more those who make a Diorama with those 5 models or want to put a Squad on the shelf than for people who play with them and need 20 or more (and having 4 times the same dynamic model on the table looks less good than if there are just 5)
Overread wrote: Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
as is the scale model market, a reason why GW is slowly shifting torwards those as the market is bigger and people are more willing to pay more for less models (as they only buy 1 Box anyway) than the Wargaming crowd
I'm not sure it's a sensible thing to say that GW is shifting towards a market that has considerably cheaper prices for models 20 years ahead of GW in technology as a ploy to charge more for less.
Overread wrote: Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
as is the scale model market, a reason why GW is slowly shifting torwards those as the market is bigger and people are more willing to pay more for less models (as they only buy 1 Box anyway) than the Wargaming crowd
I'm not sure it's a sensible thing to say that GW is shifting towards a market that has considerably cheaper prices for models 20 years ahead of GW in technology as a ploy to charge more for less.
I wouldn't know if the other markets are ahead of GW's plastic casting. Perhaps some aspects of design in terms of real-scale but the actual casting I'd say GW could even be ahead of them or at least on-par. Thing is the scale model market has a different scale and attitude toward detail and how its represented. GW is more likely to use fewer parts; whilst the scale model is happy for us to stick every button onto a console.
Grimtuff wrote: Just go with Mantic, Heresy (been meaning to pick up Mucklegeet for a while) or just grab a Mag the Mighty figure from the ol' GOT collector's figure magazine run. I got one a few years ago direct from Eaglemoss for about £20. He stands 15cm tall.
They're not currently available from Eaglemoss, but you can still get him on eBay.
Mantic's Giant looks bad.
You couldn't pay ME to field that Eaglemoss model.
Overread wrote: Isn't the mecha Gunpla market bigger than GW's market? I seem to recall reading/hearing that whilst it hasn't got a "game" as such it has a considerably larger buying market. It's just much more asian/eastern/USA focused.
as is the scale model market, a reason why GW is slowly shifting torwards those as the market is bigger and people are more willing to pay more for less models (as they only buy 1 Box anyway) than the Wargaming crowd
How is GW shifting toward the scale model market?
I've seen them shift somewhat toward boardgames here and there, but broadly speaking I've not seen any shift from GW toward what one might consider closer to an airfix or similar kit. If anything GW is heading the other way with fewer detailed parts rather than more.
it is not about model detail but what models are for
Monopose models with 5 different poses per Box and "dynamic" details and the Heroes-Sets they made
this targets more those who make a Diorama with those 5 models or want to put a Squad on the shelf than for people who play with them and need 20 or more (and having 4 times the same dynamic model on the table looks less good than if there are just 5)
Pressing X for doubt.
I’m with JWBS on this; scale modelling is absolutely about the level of detail. Hence the mass of after-market kits for plastic kits so that you can replace the two-part plastic barrel of your tank with a machined brass rod, or the single-piece tracks with dozens of individually cast links. Oh and the still-raging debate over shaving the rivets off of aircraft models… the only people more detail-obsessed are forensic accountants and watchmakers.
Grimtuff wrote: Just go with Mantic, Heresy (been meaning to pick up Mucklegeet for a while) or just grab a Mag the Mighty figure from the ol' GOT collector's figure magazine run. I got one a few years ago direct from Eaglemoss for about £20. He stands 15cm tall.
They're not currently available from Eaglemoss, but you can still get him on eBay.
Mantic's Giant looks bad.
You couldn't pay ME to field that Eaglemoss model.
Mucklegeet is pretty decent.
Meh, I like them all. Strip the paint from Mag and he's a pretty good sculpt, don't judge it on a prepaint.
Grimtuff wrote: Just go with Mantic, Heresy (been meaning to pick up Mucklegeet for a while) or just grab a Mag the Mighty figure from the ol' GOT collector's figure magazine run. I got one a few years ago direct from Eaglemoss for about £20. He stands 15cm tall.
They're not currently available from Eaglemoss, but you can still get him on eBay.
Mantic's Giant looks bad.
You couldn't pay ME to field that Eaglemoss model.
Mucklegeet is pretty decent.
Meh, I like them all. Strip the paint from Mag and he's a pretty good sculpt, don't judge it on a prepaint.
I didn't. The sculpt looks like crap.
The Mega Gargants are exactly the aesthetics I'm looking for in Warhammer Fantasy. Grimm fairy tale proportioned monsters eating children and causing chaos and destruction with their skinny-fat limbs.
I'm sure many people will greatly enjoy buying them; just as others will enjoy buying other models. It's one thing to dislike a price, its another to attack others for enjoying their hobby.
I'm sure many people will greatly enjoy buying them; just as others will enjoy buying other models. It's one thing to dislike a price, its another to attack others for enjoying their hobby.
This is a good example of bias.
Grimtuff telling BuFFo that he's overpaying for GW giants is an attack, because you disagree.
BuFFo telling Grimtuff that the sculpts he likes are crap is not an attack, because you agree.
I'm sure many people will greatly enjoy buying them; just as others will enjoy buying other models. It's one thing to dislike a price, its another to attack others for enjoying their hobby.
This is a good example of bias.
Grimtuff telling BuFFo that he's overpaying for GW giants is an attack, because you disagree.
BuFFo telling Grimtuff that the sculpts he likes are crap is not an attack, because you agree.
"Attack people for enjoying their hobby"
Well, if your "hobby" is forking over too much cash to GW for something that frankly should not cost nearly as much as it does, then you deserve to be ridiculed. But no, sweet m'lady GW has been besmirched so they need to defend the keep! Oh noes! Won't somebody think of the children!
They are overpriced and I wouldn't buy one. Ever. Would I accept one as a gift? Well, honestly; yes as I like the sculpts. That's the only way I would ever own one.
Overpaying suggestions measurements of what is high or low.
For you, their price is 'overpaying'. By what measure, I don't know.
For me, their price is fine. I want to have a complete Warhammer Fantasy army painted and ready to go. It is easier for me to paint 8 - 10 models for a 2000 point force than my other 14 armies ( all 40k) which I've bene collecting for 30+ years and I don't have a single 2k point force painted out of any of them.
So I like the sculpts, and they give me an opportunity to have a painted army to have on the board.
Lastly, I like to use GW models for GW games if I can. If my opponent wants to field Mantic Giants, I DON'T MIND ONE BIT, but I don't want that for my army.
So they are priced perfectly for me.
8 years ago was the last time I bought a new in box army, 2k of Dark Eldar, that I have yet not painted. That army cost me just over $1000 back then? So the price for a fieldable army, hasn't changed. As a matter of fact, it's cheaper.
Now, if I planned ahead, I could have gotten the Manhunters cheaper, but that's on me.
According to my objective value system, Sons of Bahemet are priced just fine at the ebay listings of $165 each.
Eye of the beholder, yadda yadda. Anymore news and/or rumours going on? Or are we just in pricing moan mode?
Price Moan Mode until next weekend where there's a preview window. From the title it seems to be focusing on specialist games rather than core, but that doesn't mean we might not see more of those sneaked 40K other-factions that were shown a month or so back.
We also likely have at least one more week of Marine and Necron releases, hard to tell if it will be happening next week as well or not right now. GW might take a break or might push on and get the final bits out.
Visited GW today and seen the price of the new giants.
After laughing I revisited Mantic to check up on the price of the giant I got with the Vanguard set.
£35 is expensive for them, and the quality isn't the same, and there is less versatility, but how many large giants do I need?
Regular giants are also way up in price on rerelease. I will skip this unless I get a very good discount deal somewhere. Should have bought them from the BOGOF box a few years back.
Eye of the beholder, yadda yadda. Anymore news and/or rumours going on? Or are we just in pricing moan mode?
Price Moan Mode until next weekend where there's a preview window. From the title it seems to be focusing on specialist games rather than core, but that doesn't mean we might not see more of those sneaked 40K other-factions that were shown a month or so back.
We also likely have at least one more week of Marine and Necron releases, hard to tell if it will be happening next week as well or not right now. GW might take a break or might push on and get the final bits out.
Final necron bits, maybe (flayed ones, two new crypteks). They've been surprisingly shy on the marine front- we haven't seen any of the full multipart kits yet (eradicators, heavy intercessors, bladeguard, assault intercessors, gladiator tanks and storm speeders), and the bikes are likely to get the Indomitus sprue shoved in a box like the skorpekh destroyers. So almost certainly more than one week.
I don't think AoS has anything else until the Medusas vs Slaanesh box and the Morathi hardback, and the former is definitively November (its at the end of the video).
I know people are... people but it still shocks me how common it is for one to not understand that their personal viewpoint is, in fact, not the bar by which something is measured.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I know people are... people but it still shocks me how common it is for one to not understand that their personal viewpoint is, in fact, not the bar by which something is measured.
Its more like, "I want one but cant afford that price, or will regret spending that much for that kit."
Its not like we expect the world to revolve around our opinions, but that we are priced out of the hobby we love.
JWBS wrote: Hopefully the Christmas bundles soon, they're last week of October / first of November usually aren't they?
In ancient times there might have been an actual leak from a WD or a trader a month early, about now. The time GW advertised these was usually a month later though.
Also: these will without a shadow of a doubt NOT have the new mega-gargant in them. If we are very lucky there could be a bundle box with three or for normal giants in them. Honestly though, I rather expect something for other armies with a single giant in it - to "suggest" you also get into SoB.
In ancient times there might have been an actual leak from a WD or a trader a month early, about now. The time GW advertised these was usually a month later though.
October-ish has been when we've gotten the full previews for the Christmas bundles for the past few years. Leaks have sometimes pushed it forward.
Also: these will without a shadow of a doubt NOT have the new mega-gargant in them. If we are very lucky there could be a bundle box with three or for normal giants in them. Honestly though, I rather expect something for other armies with a single giant in it - to "suggest" you also get into SoB.
Doesn't really work like that. This ain't 40k of old where one could just throw allies in. There's a set % of your army that can be Allies and there's a set table of Allies and the Mega-Gargant Mercenaries are the only way to ignore those.
That said, I wouldn't be shocked to see a Sons of Behemat splash bundle next year. 1-2 Mega-Gargants and a few sets of Manstompers, ala the Knight box we saw for 40k.
Yeah I've been pondering that myself what with covid. Mildly worried, as I've put some disposable cash aside for a large spend this year, I suppose I'll at least have funds for other stuff if they don't offer us some discount boxes.
EnTyme wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if the COVID production delays didn't force the normal holiday bundles to early next year.
I think its a do or don't situation. GW either do them for Christmas or they don't. I think delays on them would mean that they are just not equipped to do it at all at this stage.
That said they did Indomitus which likely sold just as much in volume.
The main issue I'd see is lockdowns shutting down GW themselves or their partners/shipping system so that we'd end up with insane delays around Christmas (way worse than normal). If they hit just overseas it might mean places like the USA would place orders at the normal time but might have to wait a month or two to get stock. If it happens in the UK it would delay any potential release. That's got to be GW's biggest worry, esp as Corona in the UK is currently worse in the north and GW is mostly sort of in the north. That said I figure their plan is to just soldier on with likely some back-end improvements so that even if shipping is shut down; other areas like community interactions can continue easier during a lockdown period. I suspect there isn't practically much else they can do
I'd be pretty suprised if we didn't get the Christmas bundles. There is usually no new model releases in December, so I think they have time to pump them out.
The exception May be Deathguard this year, but maybe that will be late November? Hard to know.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I know people are... people but it still shocks me how common it is for one to not understand that their personal viewpoint is, in fact, not the bar by which something is measured.
Its more like, "I want one but cant afford that price, or will regret spending that much for that kit."
Its not like we expect the world to revolve around our opinions, but that we are priced out of the hobby we love.
Your stance is entirely valid, I was referring to people who personally feel the kit is not worth it and so jump to the conclusion that ANYONE getting it is overpaying. Subjective value does not work like that.
I do wonder if the amount of extra bits lets you build another one with just some putty or the bits are actually trashed due to scale in comparison with your other bits
Sasori wrote: I'd be pretty suprised if we didn't get the Christmas bundles. There is usually no new model releases in December, so I think they have time to pump them out.
The exception May be Deathguard this year, but maybe that will be late November? Hard to know.
The next season of underworlds is coming out in December, and at this rate maybe a warcry release as well. (I would have figured the new starter would have released by now, but at this point I'm pessimistic about it releasing earlier than November, which almost certainly means January of 2023 :lol.)
Sasori wrote: I'd be pretty suprised if we didn't get the Christmas bundles. There is usually no new model releases in December, so I think they have time to pump them out.
The exception May be Deathguard this year, but maybe that will be late November? Hard to know.
The next season of underworlds is coming out in December, and at this rate maybe a warcry release as well. (I would have figured the new starter would have released by now, but at this point I'm pessimistic about it releasing earlier than November, which almost certainly means January of 2023 :lol.)
The novel for Catacombs is dated for October, so we'll probably see Catacombs by the end of the month.
Sasori wrote: I'd be pretty suprised if we didn't get the Christmas bundles. There is usually no new model releases in December, so I think they have time to pump them out.
The exception May be Deathguard this year, but maybe that will be late November? Hard to know.
The next season of underworlds is coming out in December, and at this rate maybe a warcry release as well. (I would have figured the new starter would have released by now, but at this point I'm pessimistic about it releasing earlier than November, which almost certainly means January of 2023 :lol.)
The novel for Catacombs is dated for October, so we'll probably see Catacombs by the end of the month.
only if Nottingham manages to avoid total lockdown, which is looking more unlikely by the day.
Nottingham getting locked down wouldn't affect anything that is the next two months worth or so. Shipments are weeks if not months in advance.
It would, however, affect releases for 2021's backend and restocks for stuff.
That's why the stuff we're seeing delayed for NZ/AUS still gets a date. They're tracking the shipping containers and figuring out from there.
There's a lot going on in the backend moving stuff from GW to their warehouses/distribution centers to their shops and independents.
Sasori wrote: I'd be pretty suprised if we didn't get the Christmas bundles. There is usually no new model releases in December, so I think they have time to pump them out.
The exception May be Deathguard this year, but maybe that will be late November? Hard to know.
The next season of underworlds is coming out in December, and at this rate maybe a warcry release as well. (I would have figured the new starter would have released by now, but at this point I'm pessimistic about it releasing earlier than November, which almost certainly means January of 2023 :lol.)
The novel for Catacombs is dated for October, so we'll probably see Catacombs by the end of the month.
only if Nottingham manages to avoid total lockdown, which is looking more unlikely by the day.
Even level 3 makes no difference to work unless its hospitality related.
Carlovonsexron wrote: shipments might be fine, but would stuff still get released? The first time covid locked down the UK releases halted. Why wouldn't that happen again?
The first time covid locked down the UK, everywhere was locking down. GW opened up their webstore in the UK before they did the US and releases did start to resume before I got out of lockdown in my state.
The current UK local “lockdowns” are nothing like in March/April. Back then everything had to shut down outside of food stores. This time it’s totally different. All retail shops, offices, schools, universities and most importantly for this discussion factories are all staying open. In the newly announced tier system even the worst areas are only shutting social stuff, such as bars and gyms.
Ofc no one is expecting the current measures will “fix” Covid, so more stringent measures may come in the future, but even then factories and manufacturing will likely be the last to shut down.
That makes me feel a bit more at ease-but I'll be happy when I've the scions of the flame and some of the new underworlds stuff (mortals of slaanesh! Lizardmen!) in hand to occupy me for a while
NAVARRO wrote: I do wonder if the amount of extra bits lets you build another one with just some putty or the bits are actually trashed due to scale in comparison with your other bits
You know you're going to get 1 body and end up with a pile of boats, shields, heads, hands and whatever else. I mean yes, YOU could make a whole new giant out of that, but for most of us, more worthless bits...
sounds like decent fodder to make some ship wreck beach scatter terrain. But you've have to sell be a whole plastic boat along with the wreck to begin to get me thinking about buying one of those giants
NAVARRO wrote: I do wonder if the amount of extra bits lets you build another one with just some putty or the bits are actually trashed due to scale in comparison with your other bits
You know you're going to get 1 body and end up with a pile of boats, shields, heads, hands and whatever else. I mean yes, YOU could make a whole new giant out of that, but for most of us, more worthless bits...
Now if only there were cheaper alternative bodies you could attach them...
NAVARRO wrote: I do wonder if the amount of extra bits lets you build another one with just some putty or the bits are actually trashed due to scale in comparison with your other bits
You know you're going to get 1 body and end up with a pile of boats, shields, heads, hands and whatever else. I mean yes, YOU could make a whole new giant out of that, but for most of us, more worthless bits...
Now if only there were cheaper alternative bodies you could attach them...
Or, say, smaller Gargants that can follow the others.
FW has had a very bumpy ride and its not even really sure if its going to keep supporting AoS - they stripped a lot of really great models from the line at the start of the year and they've mucked around between having an AoS team and then not having an AoS team. Plus the rules (which are done by GW central) haven't been updated properly in ages. They even hardly seem to remember it exists when marketing armies - oddly Gloomspite got a LOT of marketing of FW stuff; but I don't recall seeing any of the skaven stuff when Skaven got their update.
Heck GW even did an article on "exalted greater demons" and didn't reference the FW models once.
Overread wrote: FW has had a very bumpy ride and its not even really sure if its going to keep supporting AoS - they stripped a lot of really great models from the line at the start of the year and they've mucked around between having an AoS team and then not having an AoS team. Plus the rules (which are done by GW central) haven't been updated properly in ages. They even hardly seem to remember it exists when marketing armies - oddly Gloomspite got a LOT of marketing of FW stuff; but I don't recall seeing any of the skaven stuff when Skaven got their update.
Heck GW even did an article on "exalted greater demons" and didn't reference the FW models once.
That’s true, but I see them being HH mainly and keeping their big models, like they used to.
I’d honestly love to see models like the mammoth and chaos dragon come back to it.
AoS loves it’s huge monsters so that isn’t an issue either.
Just weird that sometimes they heavily market FW and other times they forget it exists.
For me though, £120 isn’t worth thinking about.
When GW gets to the stage that a bigger FW model of the same line is cheaper, there’s an issue.
I’ll be using mega gargants in my skaven and undead armies, but I’ll just be converting them.
I’d honestly rather spend £120 on parts for something unique that stands out than an over priced lump of plastic.
I usually don’t bat an eye at GW pricing, but overtaking FW for cost is just a bad joke.
Funny to see they have not got stock issues with any behemat models though, despite new armies/models of late always having problems with demand.
NAVARRO wrote: I do wonder if the amount of extra bits lets you build another one with just some putty or the bits are actually trashed due to scale in comparison with your other bits
You know you're going to get 1 body and end up with a pile of boats, shields, heads, hands and whatever else. I mean yes, YOU could make a whole new giant out of that, but for most of us, more worthless bits...
If all fails we could always paint the bits stone like and decorate bases, seems like a waste of good bits though. I think extra bits are valid say for regiments but for these huge one off centrepieces not so much.
Speaking of price I wonder if you start digging into the realms of the collector boutique high end resins you probably can find some hidden treasures.
You know, when I saw these, I thought someone is getting really desperate. Tiny amount of junk thrown into really expensive box purchase, junk that is not even for the right army (all dwarf, no giant designs...), and funnily enough, it's probably something they hand out for free in WW bar, except thanks to Covid they are now overstocked and look for ways of getting rid of it
Now if only there were cheaper alternative bodies you could attach them...
Or, say, smaller Gargants that can follow the others.
You mean the ones that come with WAY more decorative bits than the new trainwreck? These ones? Because if anything, you will be using bits from smaller ones to try and give any character to new zero option, zero pose, zero bits disasters, it's like instead of using bits from IG kits to spice up their tanks going the other way and gluing random leftover spare track links and battlecannon bits to guardsmen...
Just got an email saying I wouldn't receive my order till mid November because they didn't have enough coasters to fill all the orders placed at the weekend.
Rolsheen wrote: Just got an email saying I wouldn't receive my order till mid November because they didn't have enough coasters to fill all the orders placed at the weekend.
Rolsheen wrote: Just got an email saying I wouldn't receive my order till mid November because they didn't have enough coasters to fill all the orders placed at the weekend.
That... that Has to be a joke.
it is, seeing how gw has already stated that you'll get the coasters while stock lasts
Disclaimer: Hammerhal Herald is the Regimental Standard equivalent just minus the articles. We've been getting a lot of teases, some have led to stuff some won't.
To be fair considering how popular vampires were in Old World and how GW has pushed them in the lore a lot I'd be shocked if we don't get a vampire/Soulblight army in the game. Heck I'm more surprised that Ossiarchs came before vampires.
The real question is what focus they take - lots of vampires; vampires with human followers; skeletons; zombies; undead; monsters; something else.
There's a lot of ways GW could take it. They still have a regular skelton army getting started set and could make them part of the vampire force; or they could still be their own army.
Kanluwen wrote: Disclaimer: Hammerhal Herald is the Regimental Standard equivalent just minus the articles. We've been getting a lot of teases, some have led to stuff some won't.
We have some blatantly undead rumour engine pics too. Of course given the timing it's most likely an Underworlds warband, not an AoS army.
Its worth pointing out that the vampire model is one from the coven throne. But based off rumor pics, we've got to have something coming, even if only warcry or underworlds.
Wonder how comparable size(height and overall bulk) they are and how easy it will be using spare bits from official. You could get 3 for bit over 240e combining official and mantic ones. Much more cheap than 450e and top of that each 3 would be on different base model! That could be worth it even without price issue...
