I was at a bbq with some gaming gents today when WFB came up, one of them being a redshirt. Take this with the usual redshirt info, sometimes spoonfed by GW. Units will indeed be on circular bases with most infantry units gaining base-to-base contact bonuses depending on their equipment layout and command qualities.
Armored/shield units gain a shield wall bonus, ranged and spear units gain rerolls to-hit with additional ranks in base-to-base, basic infantry gain morale. These are initiated at the end of their movement phase if the unit is fully in base contact.
Separated models fall into a 40k-esque open formation, gaining bonuses if their type has a preference for that formation, with all gaining movement and deployment bonuses depending on the further their cohesion but also lowering morale and objective contests of some sort.
I'll try to squeeze out a little more info tomorrow at breakfast.
From a Red Shirt, but at this point they might be starting to train them to demo the new game.
the shops dont have it yet. here in the us they get it 1-1.5 weeks early to build/paint/learn the game. So expect your local shop to have one by next week.
- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward. But people with existing armies will have stats for all their models. Extrapolating from this, I expect that the focus of rules and stats of the aos book and any future books will be on models they currently sell. As a store, i'll probably just make a bunch of copies of this and hand it out to players as needed, so everyone has them.
-Setup may be alternating units, with the player who has the least units having some control over what objectives you'll be playing the game around.
-Statlines will be more along the line of the die roll needed.
-Very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds.
- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward. But people with existing armies will have stats for all their models. Extrapolating from this, I expect that the focus of rules and stats of the aos book and any future books will be on models they currently sell. As a store, i'll probably just make a bunch of copies of this and hand it out to players as needed, so everyone has them.
-Setup may be alternating units, with the player who has the least units having some control over what objectives you'll be playing the game around.
-Statlines will be more along the line of the die roll needed.
-Very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds.
I heard the same about the rules being online for free. On the release rules for stuff not new will have free rules online and they will be in card format. Unit cards for everything not in the new book on the launch. I am positive that as books come out there will be changes to each unit so that the free rules are no longer curent.
I also heard that with less books but 15 armies still available that army composition will be determined by which god your army follows. I like this idea. The gods of the old world will aparently play a part of the game now.
- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward. But people with existing armies will have stats for all their models. Extrapolating from this, I expect that the focus of rules and stats of the aos book and any future books will be on models they currently sell. As a store, i'll probably just make a bunch of copies of this and hand it out to players as needed, so everyone has them.
-Setup may be alternating units, with the player who has the least units having some control over what objectives you'll be playing the game around.
-Statlines will be more along the line of the die roll needed.
-Very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds.
Because we needed more reasons not to run dragons? It makes sense fluff wise for that, but until cannons can't one shot your 300+ point beast they'll remain relegated to lists where people insist on running them, not so much for any kind of competitive play.
I like the idea of moving stats more towards die rolls, so that we don't have to constantly look up tables and modifiers all day. It's one thing I love about X-Wing: there are very few rules so complicated you'd need to look them up mid game. I don't know how much time I've lost mid game in WFB to having to look up some random special rule or constantly have to review modifiers and map out hit/wound tables. For long time veterans much of it can be memorized, but for new players it's a lot of info to take in and really slows down the pace of the game.
I hope they extend that "stats get worse" thing to 40k. It's a bit ridiculous that you can strip normal vehicles bare but a wraithknight/riptide/superheavy is 100% black knight "it's just a flesh wound" good until he flops over dead from the very last shot.
- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward. But people with existing armies will have stats for all their models. Extrapolating from this, I expect that the focus of rules and stats of the aos book and any future books will be on models they currently sell. As a store, i'll probably just make a bunch of copies of this and hand it out to players as needed, so everyone has them.
-Setup may be alternating units, with the player who has the least units having some control over what objectives you'll be playing the game around.
-Statlines will be more along the line of the die roll needed.
-Very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds.
I'm not looking to be a part of the rumor-mill, but the sole thing I have heard from a friend in Nottingham, in the industry, but not from GW, was something akin to heavy one-off units having their effectiveness diminish as they take wounds... so I actually can say I have heard that last item.
I wouldn't be surprised if "very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds" is tied in to monsters getting a lot more survivable.
There is precedent for that with some things that get better as they lose Wounds.
By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's , If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed ... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. I started back in 1980's,...
drunkorc wrote: By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's , If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed ... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. I started back in 1980's,...
Kanluwen wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if "very large monsters may have their stats get worse as they lose wounds" is tied in to monsters getting a lot more survivable.
There is precedent for that with some things that get better as they lose Wounds.
That is my main concern. Give me a reason to field that dragon in the first place, and I won't mind at all if it gets worse at killing things the more damage it takes.
This newest batch of rumors(which are far milder than the nightmare text wall posted last week) has restored some hope for me about AoS. I've got 16 years invested in this game, I'd really like to keep it going but I have to feel it's still worth the cost and effort.
drunkorc wrote: By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's , If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed ... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. I started back in 1980's,...
There is no need to rebase your modes.
Indeed, I don't plan to either. I've still got 10 2nd ed termies on 25mm although I do bring some litko balsa 40mm bases to put under them if someone really raises a stink and wants me to break the rules. If you do, just buy some of the conversion kits that fit on the outside instead of actually ripping off the model from the base and redoing them. Also, all your bases are belong to us.
warboss wrote: Indeed, I don't plan to either. I've still got 10 2nd ed termies on 25mm although I do bring some litko balsa 40mm bases to put under them if someone really raises a stink and wants me to break the rules. If you do, just buy some of the conversion kits that fit on the outside instead of actually ripping off the model from the base and redoing them. Also, all your bases are belong to us.
I have about forty 25mm termies painted ... and about seventy 50 mm termies painted
And probably 5x that unpainted hehehehe. Why, oh why, must one of the most iconic model types be so CRAPPY that the models are only playable in the most contrived scenarios? O.o
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Patience younglings, patience.
Salvation/damnation is but a fortnight away..........
Not an oldschool whfb player Notprop. He has a lord and 6-7 "biggish" units.
Is that bad in terms of this new edition?
Herohammer?
Dear Sir,.. Chaos Warriors back then were 74Pts. a pop, Marauders 39Pts a pop, and Thugs 8Pts. funny i still have the Warhammer Army's book in my Room,.. Whats funny is on P.62, Dave Andrews With his Bretonnian Army,.. all his Knights are not Citadel models,... as well as some of his Troops,... but that was back when you could use other Models for Giants and What not, ahh the good old days
drunkorc wrote: By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's , If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed ... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. I started back in 1980's,...
There is no need to rebase your modes.
Indeed, I don't plan to either. I've still got 10 2nd ed termies on 25mm although I do bring some litko balsa 40mm bases to put under them if someone really raises a stink and wants me to break the rules. If you do, just buy some of the conversion kits that fit on the outside instead of actually ripping off the model from the base and redoing them. Also, all your bases are belong to us.
Actually if the companies doing plastic base adapters for 40K got involved that would be useful; turn 20mm square into 25mm rounds and 25mm square into 32mm rounds maybe?
drunkorc wrote: By the Gods,.. after all kinds of cool base's i made,.. I am going to sooo not be happy breaking over 1000 Base's , If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed ... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. I started back in 1980's,...
There is no need to rebase your modes.
Indeed, I don't plan to either. I've still got 10 2nd ed termies on 25mm although I do bring some litko balsa 40mm bases to put under them if someone really raises a stink and wants me to break the rules. If you do, just buy some of the conversion kits that fit on the outside instead of actually ripping off the model from the base and redoing them. Also, all your bases are belong to us.
Actually if the companies doing plastic base adapters for 40K got involved that would be useful; turn 20mm square into 25mm rounds and 25mm square into 32mm rounds maybe?
Las wrote: So, at this point how much evidence points to this as the next step for WHFB rather than a larger-than-normal spacehulk or assassinorum type game?
The main point is that GW stores have stripped all the old WHFB rules off the shelves and replaced it with AoS teasers.
Las wrote: So, at this point how much evidence points to this as the next step for WHFB rather than a larger-than-normal spacehulk or assassinorum type game?
GW advertising it a month in advance, which happend for 40K 7th, but not Space Hulk or Assassinorum.
GW adding a little line to all WFB army books, saying they'll be pulled from the website for AoS.
Las wrote: So, at this point how much evidence points to this as the next step for WHFB rather than a larger-than-normal spacehulk or assassinorum type game?
The main point is that GW stores have stripped all the old WHFB rules off the shelves and replaced it with AoS teasers.
That's fine stripping away the main rulebook from stock (fresh new edition and all that) but I fail to see how scrapping the existing fluff and removing all the existing army rulebooks provides any incentive for existing WHFB to buy into this new creation. Even if rules for many existing models are provided in the new book (or given away free on the website), the writing is clearly on the wall that a good portion of the existing range will slowly be removed over the next 1-2 years.
Las wrote: Also, what're the chances that we can all decide to call this Nigmohammer if it sucks?
Sounds like a good idea.
8th edition; played by those who choose not to purchase the new edition but instead keeps holding on to their money could then be called Niggardlyhammer.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Patience younglings, patience.
Salvation/damnation is but a fortnight away..........
Not an oldschool whfb player Notprop. He has a lord and 6-7 "biggish" units.
Is that bad in terms of this new edition?
Herohammer?
Dear Sir,.. Chaos Warriors back then were 74Pts. a pop, Marauders 39Pts a pop, and Thugs 8Pts. funny i still have the Warhammer Army's book in my Room,.. Whats funny is on P.62, Dave Andrews With his Bretonnian Army,.. all his Knights are not Citadel models,... as well as some of his Troops,... but that was back when you could use other Models for Giants and What not, ahh the good old days
Las wrote: So, at this point how much evidence points to this as the next step for WHFB rather than a larger-than-normal spacehulk or assassinorum type game?
The main point is that GW stores have stripped all the old WHFB rules off the shelves and replaced it with AoS teasers.
That's fine stripping away the main rulebook from stock (fresh new edition and all that) but I fail to see how scrapping the existing fluff and removing all the existing army rulebooks provides any incentive for existing WHFB to buy into this new creation. Even if rules for many existing models are provided in the new book (or given away free on the website), the writing is clearly on the wall that a good portion of the existing range will slowly be removed over the next 1-2 years.
Not necessarily. What it says to me is that the mechanics, the way you make your army and the points costs are changing sufficiently where the 8th books won't be compatible. A similar situation to the 5th-6th transition where we were using the same miniatures but the old books were designed under a completely different system.
mikhaila wrote:
- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward.
Typical GW - limited edition free downloads.
Mind you, I have a feeling I'll snap them all up even if I never play a game of AoS. (Which is reasonably likely)
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Patience younglings, patience.
Salvation/damnation is but a fortnight away..........
Not an oldschool whfb player Notprop. He has a lord and 6-7 "biggish" units.
Is that bad in terms of this new edition?
Herohammer?
Dear Sir,.. Chaos Warriors back then were 74Pts. a pop, Marauders 39Pts a pop, and Thugs 8Pts. funny i still have the Warhammer Army's book in my Room,.. Whats funny is on P.62, Dave Andrews With his Bretonnian Army,.. all his Knights are not Citadel models,... as well as some of his Troops,... but that was back when you could use other Models for Giants and What not, ahh the good old days
Chaos Thugs. There's a unit I haven't heard of in a while. One of the best games of Warhammer I ever played involved my army consisting of several Thug units, demons, Knights, wizards, etc. against my opponent's force of Orks, chaos units, undead and other nasties. The game consisted of sessions of four hours at a pop covering a three day span that came down, in Arthurian fashion, to my last wizard against his last unit of Orks. The champion of the unit had a Spell Eater Shield and the only thing that the wizard could do to avoid getting killed was to cast Black Horror or some such spell that managed to get by the shield and suck the Orks off to an awful fate, leaving him the last man standing on the field.
Hard to believe it 's been over 20 years ago.
mikhaila wrote:
- There will be some free downloads to give unit stats for older models. These won't be in the book itself. The stats online are a onetime thing, meaning they won't be maintaining it or adding info for it going forward.
Typical GW - limited edition free downloads.
Mind you, I have a feeling I'll snap them all up even if I never play a game of AoS. (Which is reasonably likely)
Not so much that the download will be taken down...
Just that going forward, it won't be updated, added to, or enhanced in any way. It's meant to give you rules for older models, not as a resource for all models in the game going forward. Or at least that was how i read it Who knows? With GW mabe they only leave it up a month
Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.
OgreChubbs wrote: Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.
Please link the ebay listing for the armies, I'm always on the look out for more.
OgreChubbs wrote: Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.
Over dramatic much? Why don't you wait snd give this game a go or you know try one off the many other games out there.
OgreChubbs wrote: Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.
Over dramatic much? Why don't you wait snd give this game a go or you know try one off the many other games out there.
I never get this response. If someone was a huge football fan, played amateur football at the weekends etc, and then the governing body of the sport completely changed the rules and purged half the teams from the professional leagues, killing the one they supported in the process, and that person subsequently decided that the things they enjoyed about football had been taken away so they were done with it, would you say "hey man, don't be so over-dramatic, try Tennis!"?
I never get this response. If someone was a huge football fan, played amateur football at the weekends etc, and then the governing body of the sport completely changed the rules and purged half the teams from the professional leagues, killing the one they supported in the process, and that person subsequently decided that the things they enjoyed about football had been taken away so they were done with it, would you say "hey man, don't be so over-dramatic, try Tennis!"?
Yes?
Why would you stop doing sports or stop enjoying physical activity, just because one particular sport changed or even ceased to exist? Go try Tennis. Seriously. Or Golf. Or Basketball. Or whatever. Nobody in their right mind would just ... stop.
OgreChubbs wrote: Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.
Over dramatic much? Why don't you wait snd give this game a go or you know try one off the many other games out there.
I never get this response. If someone was a huge football fan, played amateur football at the weekends etc, and then the governing body of the sport completely changed the rules and purged half the teams from the professional leagues, killing the one they supported in the process, and that person subsequently decided that the things they enjoyed about football had been taken away so they were done with it, would you say "hey man, don't be so over-dramatic, try Tennis!"?
You didnt see any of those things actually come to pass.
It's like you're at the stage when they announced something will change but you duno any details..
OgreChubbs wrote: Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.
Over dramatic much? Why don't you wait snd give this game a go or you know try one off the many other games out there.
I never get this response. If someone was a huge football fan, played amateur football at the weekends etc, and then the governing body of the sport completely changed the rules and purged half the teams from the professional leagues, killing the one they supported in the process, and that person subsequently decided that the things they enjoyed about football had been taken away so they were done with it, would you say "hey man, don't be so over-dramatic, try Tennis!"?
You might have a better point if there was any kind of professional Warhammer league to follow, and if the 'governing body' came round to Chubbs' gaff to personally melt his models and shred his books.
I'm with Overtyrant and Wonderwolf: this is part of the GW conditioning that particularly weirds me out. Such a complete lock on the GW way of gaming - the package game; pickups; rules churn; spend spend spend - so when that turns against them, there's nothing left but to fall on their sword. Keep an army collection and don't constantly pour money into it? Ridiculous. Find other gamers and organise games of 8th or earlier? Absurd. Glance sideways at other systems, even those where you can easily use your collection and the old Warhammer fluff? You've got to be kidding, right?
I'm going to be using my LOTR models for D&D, once I can get a campaign going at my club. I have no intent of abandoning my LOTR collection, even if I do eventually quit the SBG game.
No reason why people can't take their existing Warhammer collections and adapt to a new rules system like Kings of War. In fact, doesn't Mantic Games encourage that?
OgreChubbs wrote: Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.
Over dramatic much? Why don't you wait snd give this game a go or you know try one off the many other games out there.
I never get this response. If someone was a huge football fan, played amateur football at the weekends etc, and then the governing body of the sport completely changed the rules and purged half the teams from the professional leagues, killing the one they supported in the process, and that person subsequently decided that the things they enjoyed about football had been taken away so they were done with it, would you say "hey man, don't be so over-dramatic, try Tennis!"?
How about we wait and see eh? How do you know the sky is falling if FIFA haven't told you anything about the new game? The best response would be to wait and see and after you have tried the new game if you do not like the changes then any statements about quiting wouldn't be seen as childish.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I'm going to be using my LOTR models for D&D, once I can get a campaign going at my club. I have no intent of abandoning my LOTR collection, even if I do eventually quit the SBG game.
Nice!
No reason why people can't take their existing Warhammer collections and adapt to a new rules system like Kings of War. In fact, doesn't Mantic Games encourage that?
Especially with those new (free!) army lists they're bringing out in response to AoS. And like I keep saying, there are a handful of other existing and upcoming rulesets that let you plug in or create rules for whatever fantasy minis you have. (Though it's not otherwise impossible) Take a look at this, this, and this.
How about we wait and see eh? How do you know the sky is falling if FIFA haven't told you anything about the new game? The best response would be to wait and see and after you have tried the new game if you do not like the changes then any statements about quiting wouldn't be seen as childish.
If everyone adopted a 'wait and see' approach there wouldn't be much rumour discussion going on in the rumour forum. Just saying.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I'm going to be using my LOTR models for D&D, once I can get a campaign going at my club. I have no intent of abandoning my LOTR collection, even if I do eventually quit the SBG game.
Nice!
Currently on my painting desk are these guys, the plastic LOTR Army of the Dead. I'm painting them up as Wights (as opposed to incorporeal ghosts), which fall somewhere between zombies and skeletons. Faster and more intelligent than zombies, but not quite as decayed as skeletons. Think Game of Thrones Season 5 Episode 8 Hardhome. Bronze and iron armour; red, brown and black clothing. I think I've got some Nihilakh Oxide somewhere for verdigris on the bronze.
I like these models so much, I might get a second box and paint them up as actual Army of the Dead to add to my Arnor/Grey Company Army (Pelennor Fields).
Spoiler:
Point being, just buy whatever models you like whoever the manufacturer, and play the rules system you most enjoy. Miniatures and rules are not inextricable.
It not that the game wont be fun it probly will be. It is the money thats getting to me. I boght thousands in bloodbowl, which is now in my basement in a box. I spent thousands on epic, now in a bow in the basement. I spent thousand on inquestion and worse of all thousands on monster arcnium and storm of magic. All useless and in boxes.
I spent god knows how much on whfb easly double digit thousands. Which are goin to be in a box in the basement.
I know aos will be fun but i am having more and more trouble buying there product when i know in months to a couple years woll be in a box in the basement. I am getting older and spending that much money on a toy to throw out is starting to bother me more and more.
I guess i am just getting sick of spending thousands for wall decorations.
Like think i can buy a blood thirster and a hero for 200+ or i can buy my kid a ipad. Or worse yet, i can buy the three variants of blood thirsters or a ps4 for the family and go online netflix watch blue ray ect. Or have three maybe four wall decor. That how good they look depends on my painting. It is mot like back in the day you bought 30 a box of models and had a army in a month or two. Now it a big money sink every time you buy anything. Three hunder after a week of buying doesn,t seem to bad three hunder afer going into store and getting three boxes..hurts
See if you can together a group of people friends to play the old stuff at one of your houses rather than playing pickup games instore,
that way you have people to play with and don't need to depend on a game continual updates, new models which ends up costing a bucket
(although I admit it is also fun to play the new best thing)
especially as you have multiple older games to rotate between as one starts to get stale things should remain fresh and fun.
and once your playing with a regular group you can start tweeking rules to suit the group rather than having to stick to whatever nonsense the new codex/armybook/boxset has just introduced no matter how much you hate it
I never get this response. If someone was a huge football fan, played amateur football at the weekends etc, and then the governing body of the sport completely changed the rules and purged half the teams from the professional leagues, killing the one they supported in the process, and that person subsequently decided that the things they enjoyed about football had been taken away so they were done with it, would you say "hey man, don't be so over-dramatic, try Tennis!"?
Yes?
Why would you stop doing sports or stop enjoying physical activity, just because one particular sport changed or even ceased to exist? Go try Tennis. Seriously. Or Golf. Or Basketball. Or whatever. Nobody in their right mind would just ... stop.
Why? If they are a fan of that sport not others, likely an opinion arrived at through experience, what value do other sports have to them? I'm not big into sports, but I have a passing interest in Rugby Union; if they changed Rugby Union into something that very much resembled American Football & abolished the Scottish national team, and I decided to stop watching and following Union as a result, why does my prior interest in that one specific thing which has now changed beyond all recognition from my perspective require me to then start showing an interest in other sports?
OgreChubbs wrote: Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.
Over dramatic much? Why don't you wait snd give this game a go or you know try one off the many other games out there.
I never get this response. If someone was a huge football fan, played amateur football at the weekends etc, and then the governing body of the sport completely changed the rules and purged half the teams from the professional leagues, killing the one they supported in the process, and that person subsequently decided that the things they enjoyed about football had been taken away so they were done with it, would you say "hey man, don't be so over-dramatic, try Tennis!"?
You might have a better point if there was any kind of professional Warhammer league to follow, and if the 'governing body' came round to Chubbs' gaff to personally melt his models and shred his books.
I'm with Overtyrant and Wonderwolf: this is part of the GW conditioning that particularly weirds me out. Such a complete lock on the GW way of gaming - the package game; pickups; rules churn; spend spend spend - so when that turns against them, there's nothing left but to fall on their sword. Keep an army collection and don't constantly pour money into it? Ridiculous. Find other gamers and organise games of 8th or earlier? Absurd. Glance sideways at other systems, even those where you can easily use your collection and the old Warhammer fluff? You've got to be kidding, right?
And this kind of snide, passive-aggression is exactly why I object to the kind of "advice" on offer above. It's not about helping folk out, it's about impressing upon them that you are a superior, open-minded person, and they are "conditioned" with "absurd" opinions. About ensuring they understand that their personal taste is invalid because it's insufficiently broad. That they're just being "childish".
It's actually a bit sad that some folk feel the need to validate themselves by dumping on others like that.
Agreed. If you have that much stuff, just play with your buddies at home.
While the tournament scene doesn't like it, that's how the majority of gamers play. They're the guys who show up to a store and buy a few hundred worth of stuff at once, and aren't seen again for months. When they show up again, they do the same thing and disappear again.
That stuff isn't just getting thrown in a box. He/she is playing with a group of people at their house. These are the people that keep game companies alive. Like it or not, but even the tens of thousands of regulars who play in tournaments and stores around the world are not enough to sustain a business, especially when the communities are spread so thin like they are these days.
Just get together with people you know, organise to play in someones garage, and pool some money for some terrain. It's easy. If your friends and yourself like the older editions, simply play those. If you want to use something new, homebrew some rules using the new rules as a base.
I got ya Yodhrin and would go as far to say that if you know EXACTLY what you like and are really specific with your preferences there is little need to change. Specially if that change is imposed by others ( in this case GW ).
I'm very pragmatic with this so I will give it a go even if its considerably different, but for me its more about the minis than the games. My only advise to people not wanting to embrace this change is, do not sell your stuff because if GW rebooted all into skirmish levels there is nothing stopping them, in a couple editions, to revert into 8th.
Thats the thing the all quit closest people i know who play are two hours away. Everyone else quit slowly over the edition updates..... I am all thats left lol. Hell the closest store that sells gw is two hours away.
In the last year, I think I've played maybe three games of WHFB. But most of the reason is my work schedule, which has prevented me from getting to stores that have people who play. While I'm trying to fix that, I'm also optimistic that AoS will be small-scale enough to maybe drag some new players in and get fresh blood to play with.
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Davylove21 wrote: Couldn't everyone just play their favourite edition of WFB? Be it AoS or 6th, 7th, 8th etc?
GW aren't actually the King of anyone. I hate Final Fantasy 13, but I just play Final Fantasy 7 through 12.
If you can afford multiple armies and want to continue playing Warhammer Fantasy, why not build modest sized armies for multiple factions (say 2000-3000 points) and collect all the rulebooks, so that you can provide all the materials necessary to play the game and the only investment you're asking of your opponents is their time? People might be more inclined to play a game if they don't have to make a huge financial investment.
I'm doing it with LOTR SBG. When I finally get round to clearing my backlog, I'll have several full sized armies (by a skirmish game's standards). I own all the rulebooks for all factions (there aren't that many books, and they sometimes go cheap on ebay). If I wanted to get into Warhammer Fantasy (I do like some of the factions and the models, and I always enjoyed reading battle reports in White Dwarf), I would stick with 7th or 8th Edition, get the rulebooks off ebay, and build modest sized armies for my favourite 2 or 3 factions. I don't go to GW stores anymore, so I'd be more inclined to use cheaper 3rd party models like Mantic which would help cut costs.
People do this at my gaming club, but with board games. Between the ~10 of us, we own like 20+ board games. Games that I would never have played if somebody else hadn't made the investment on my behalf. And I myself have bought a bunch of rulebooks for D&D 5th Ed, and will be providing miniatures and scenery (as a miniature wargamer thats what I do anyway).
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: If you can afford multiple armies and want to continue playing Warhammer Fantasy, why not build modest sized armies for multiple factions (say 2000-3000 points) and collect all the rulebooks, so that you can provide all the materials necessary to play the game and the only investment you're asking of your opponents is their time? People might be more inclined to play a game if they don't have to make a huge financial investment.
Yup, I already do that. I have 3 really close friends that play and have armies. I have 3 more that play because they use one of mine, but either don't have the means or quite the desire level enough to take the plunge. Between my combined flavors of Elves, ogres, and chaos dwarves, I have enough to supply probably 5 other people playing.
I like the collecting, building, and (slowly) painting, so i scratch my itch while getting people to play the game with me that might not otherwise be players. *shrug* They like playing but one of them probably couldn't afford it (lots and lots of kids, rebooted career after recession), and the other two enjoy the game play but look at the investment and can't justify the buy in for what is, for them, a once monthly game played over pizza and beers.
I think its cool there are other people out there that do this with games they like. I'll probably give AoS a whirl no matter what to make up my own mind about the game (shocking, i know!), but if its a trainwreck, I know i can still play 8th with a wide and fairly diverse pool of opponents (the army owning friends all have different armies to me, so while we don't have 100% of the bases covered, it's close, and at the very least, all the races are represented).
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: If you can afford multiple armies and want to continue playing Warhammer Fantasy, why not build modest sized armies for multiple factions (say 2000-3000 points) and collect all the rulebooks, so that you can provide all the materials necessary to play the game and the only investment you're asking of your opponents is their time? People might be more inclined to play a game if they don't have to make a huge financial investment.
).
Go home Kirby. You're drunk.
But seriously, that might work for board games but who can afford multiple armies of 500 to 1000 dollars a piece. I love encouraging my friends to share my hobbies but that is a bit excessive.
Apparently, somebody in the GW Financials thread in General is claiming it still sells like hot cakes in some territories according to a senior GW manager who told them.
Azreal13 wrote: Apparently, somebody in the GW Financials thread in General is claiming it still sells like hot cakes in some territories according to a senior GW manager who told them.
Others are viewing this skeptically.
Oh, i'm sure it does. You're going to have huge variation in sales. I see it all the time on retailer boards in the US. Same sized and similar stores having vastly different sales numbers. This is due to local conditions. So some GW stores are going gangbusters, while others are sucking wind badly.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: If you can afford multiple armies and want to continue playing Warhammer Fantasy, why not build modest sized armies for multiple factions (say 2000-3000 points) and collect all the rulebooks, so that you can provide all the materials necessary to play the game and the only investment you're asking of your opponents is their time? People might be more inclined to play a game if they don't have to make a huge financial investment.
).
Go home Kirby. You're drunk.
But seriously, that might work for board games but who can afford multiple armies of 500 to 1000 dollars a piece. I love encouraging my friends to share my hobbies but that is a bit excessive.
Lots of people on this very forum have several armies, built up over years.
And like I said, if people would just free themselves of this blindly loyal mindset of only ever using GW models, then they could shop around for cheaper alternatives.
Is LOTR still around even? I always found it to be superior to WFB......
It is. While GW have just about abandoned it, the community is certainly taking over in the same way that Necromunda/Mordhiem/BFG fans have kept those going. Take a look at the One Ring forum or Dakka's own LotR subforum and you'll see plenty of folks interested in keeping the game alive.
Azreal13 wrote:Apparently, somebody in the GW Financials thread in General is claiming it still sells like hot cakes in some territories according to a senior GW manager who told them.
Others are viewing this skeptically.
I wouldn't be too sceptical. While so many have stopped buying it due to falling quality/rising prices, there are still those that must have everything in the range (and more of them than you might think). Look at Smaug; they've sold three print runs of him, and are bound to have made shedloads from that.
To date, the only tournaments I have ever attended were LOTR tournaments. And they were all independent with no official support from GW (though the first one was hosted at Warhammer World).
The comparison to old abandoned specialist games is a good one. But I think the LOTR community has an advantage over those other communities, in that GW is commercially obligated to not abandon the miniature range just yet. They renewed the licence recently until 2017 or so, so the range will still be on sale for a few years to come.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: If you can afford multiple armies and want to continue playing Warhammer Fantasy, why not build modest sized armies for multiple factions (say 2000-3000 points) and collect all the rulebooks, so that you can provide all the materials necessary to play the game and the only investment you're asking of your opponents is their time? People might be more inclined to play a game if they don't have to make a huge financial investment.
).
Go home Kirby. You're drunk.
But seriously, that might work for board games but who can afford multiple armies of 500 to 1000 dollars a piece. I love encouraging my friends to share my hobbies but that is a bit excessive.
sadly over the years i have collected that much lol and books, the problem is getting people to play. My wife plays but she has been getting into sculpting alot more then anything else. But for armies i have the book for them all and have atleast 3k for
orcs and goblins, empire, skaven, dark elves, woodelves, beastmen, demons of chaos all but tzeench, lizardmen, vampires, tombkings and warriors of chaos.
And I think 10k worth of ogres. I got atleast 2heroes/2lords/1special characters of every character.
And 4 boxes of every unit -_-
But if they are being squated curse them curse them ALLLLLLLL. Plus I miss the rules for pit fights Can't get anyone to give me a pit fight match anymore.
p.s. If they stop seelling the books does that mean they will be legal to dl from a third party website?
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: If you can afford multiple armies and want to continue playing Warhammer Fantasy, why not build modest sized armies for multiple factions (say 2000-3000 points) and collect all the rulebooks, so that you can provide all the materials necessary to play the game and the only investment you're asking of your opponents is their time? People might be more inclined to play a game if they don't have to make a huge financial investment.
).
Go home Kirby. You're drunk.
But seriously, that might work for board games but who can afford multiple armies of 500 to 1000 dollars a piece. I love encouraging my friends to share my hobbies but that is a bit excessive.
sadly over the years i have collected that much lol and books, the problem is getting people to play. My wife plays but she has been getting into sculpting alot more then anything else. But for armies i have the book for them all and have atleast 3k for
orcs and goblins, empire, skaven, dark elves, woodelves, beastmen, demons of chaos all but tzeench, lizardmen, vampires, tombkings and warriors of chaos.
And I think 10k worth of ogres. I got atleast 2heroes/2lords/1special characters of every character.
And 4 boxes of every unit -_-
But if they are being squated curse them curse them ALLLLLLLL. Plus I miss the rules for pit fights Can't get anyone to give me a pit fight match anymore.
p.s. If they stop seelling the books does that mean they will be legal to dl from a third party website?
Give Kings of War a shot - the rules are free, so there is no risk.
And Mantic allows all sorts of minis in their games, not just official Kings of War minis.
There is even an army list for Ogres.... (Though I like them better as allies.)
Azreal13 wrote: Apparently, somebody in the GW Financials thread in General is claiming it still sells like hot cakes in some territories according to a senior GW manager who told them.
Others are viewing this skeptically.
Sadly, New Zealand cannot keep the entire line afloat by themselves no mater how many $20 finecast golem in a fish basket blisters they buy..
Azreal13 wrote: Apparently, somebody in the GW Financials thread in General is claiming it still sells like hot cakes in some territories according to a senior GW manager who told them.
Others are viewing this skeptically.
Oh, i'm sure it does. You're going to have huge variation in sales. I see it all the time on retailer boards in the US. Same sized and similar stores having vastly different sales numbers. This is due to local conditions. So some GW stores are going gangbusters, while others are sucking wind badly.
And overall, they are down about 5% for the year.
Perhaps I should clarify that the skepticism is that it's selling in any statistically significant way, as I said in that thread, it's like having a number one single in Kazakhstan, sure, you can claim all sorts of positives from it, call yourself a number one selling artist etc, but ultimately, in the final analysis, it doesn't really count for much.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: If you can afford multiple armies and want to continue playing Warhammer Fantasy, why not build modest sized armies for multiple factions (say 2000-3000 points) and collect all the rulebooks, so that you can provide all the materials necessary to play the game and the only investment you're asking of your opponents is their time? People might be more inclined to play a game if they don't have to make a huge financial investment.
).
Go home Kirby. You're drunk.
But seriously, that might work for board games but who can afford multiple armies of 500 to 1000 dollars a piece. I love encouraging my friends to share my hobbies but that is a bit excessive.
sadly over the years i have collected that much lol and books, the problem is getting people to play. My wife plays but she has been getting into sculpting alot more then anything else. But for armies i have the book for them all and have atleast 3k for
orcs and goblins, empire, skaven, dark elves, woodelves, beastmen, demons of chaos all but tzeench, lizardmen, vampires, tombkings and warriors of chaos.
And I think 10k worth of ogres. I got atleast 2heroes/2lords/1special characters of every character.
And 4 boxes of every unit -_-
But if they are being squated curse them curse them ALLLLLLLL. Plus I miss the rules for pit fights Can't get anyone to give me a pit fight match anymore.
p.s. If they stop seelling the books does that mean they will be legal to dl from a third party website?
Give Kings of War a shot - the rules are free, so there is no risk.
And Mantic allows all sorts of minis in their games, not just official Kings of War minis.
There is even an army list for Ogres.... (Though I like them better as allies.)
The Auld Grump
hmmmm you may have saved my wargaming life and murdered my wallet lol.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I'm going to be using my LOTR models for D&D, once I can get a campaign going at my club. I have no intent of abandoning my LOTR collection, even if I do eventually quit the SBG game.
No reason why people can't take their existing Warhammer collections and adapt to a new rules system like Kings of War. In fact, doesn't Mantic Games encourage that?
I have my eye on Kings of War as a way of continuing the existing WHFB style of play armies; I have heard that Mantic has lists to play current Warhammer armies in the Kings of War rules although I have yet to see them (if you have a direct link please post it!!) I'm still tied to Warhammer with a Dwarf and Night Goblin army that I love and want to finish in the style of the current ranked units. Have a few other armies sitting on shelves (Ogres. Daemons, C.Dwarfs) that I might look to offload once I can see what Age of Sigmar looks like. As it stands though the current lack of information has been fairly frustrating and on more than a few occasions I've had to stop myself purchasing stuff until I can be sure it won't be obsolete in a few months time.
I wouldn't agree with making an impulse decision to just get rid of all WHFB models as a reaction to the new 9th rumours as some have suggested here; there's only a few weeks left to see the lay of the land!
I see a poster earlier on in the thread mentioned that some of the scenery items were no longer available from the website; really wanted to pick up a Garden of Morr box and maybe a Fortress before GW pulled them...can't understand why they don't give advanced notification when they intend to pull items from their line??
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I'm going to be using my LOTR models for D&D, once I can get a campaign going at my club. I have no intent of abandoning my LOTR collection, even if I do eventually quit the SBG game.
No reason why people can't take their existing Warhammer collections and adapt to a new rules system like Kings of War. In fact, doesn't Mantic Games encourage that?
I have my eye on Kings of War as a way of continuing the existing WHFB style of play armies; I have heard that Mantic has lists to play current Warhammer armies in the Kings of War rules although I have yet to see them (if you have a direct link please post it!!) I'm still tied to Warhammer with a Dwarf and Night Goblin army that I love and want to finish in the style of the current ranked units. Have a few other armies sitting on shelves (Ogres. Daemons, C.Dwarfs) that I might look to offload once I can see what Age of Sigmar looks like. As it stands though the current lack of information has been fairly frustrating and on more than a few occasions I've had to stop myself purchasing stuff until I can be sure it won't be obsolete in a few months time.
I wouldn't agree with making an impulse decision to just get rid of all WHFB models as a reaction to the new 9th rumours as some have suggested here; there's only a few weeks left to see the lay of the land!
I see a poster earlier on in the thread mentioned that some of the scenery items were no longer available from the website; really wanted to pick up a Garden of Morr box and maybe a Fortress before GW pulled them...can't understand why they don't give advanced notification when they intend to pull items from their line??
Here is a Spreadsheet of the first three armies. Ratkin (Skaven), The Herd (Neutral aligned Beastmen), and the League of Rhordia (Empire).
Azreal13 wrote: Apparently, somebody in the GW Financials thread in General is claiming it still sells like hot cakes in some territories according to a senior GW manager who told them.
Others are viewing this skeptically.
Oh, i'm sure it does. You're going to have huge variation in sales. I see it all the time on retailer boards in the US. Same sized and similar stores having vastly different sales numbers. This is due to local conditions. So some GW stores are going gangbusters, while others are sucking wind badly.
And overall, they are down about 5% for the year.
Perhaps I should clarify that the skepticism is that it's selling in any statistically significant way, as I said in that thread, it's like having a number one single in Kazakhstan, sure, you can claim all sorts of positives from it, call yourself a number one selling artist etc, but ultimately, in the final analysis, it doesn't really count for much.
Agreed. A few hotspots don't matter. Sales in the rest of the world are pretty poor. Normally I am encouraged by GW to carry their full line, and have for 30 years. Not so with LOTR, and actually quite the opposite. My sales rep was quite happy to have me dump what little I had left to make room for a blank part of the wall to put up an Age of Sigmar 'coming soon' poster.
OgreChubbs wrote: Well with all books going on june 26 even storm of magic and treachery i am done. On june 4 i think i will be leaving the hobby and this board for good . Guess it has been a good run.
Over dramatic much? Why don't you wait snd give this game a go or you know try one off the many other games out there.
I never get this response. If someone was a huge football fan, played amateur football at the weekends etc, and then the governing body of the sport completely changed the rules and purged half the teams from the professional leagues, killing the one they supported in the process, and that person subsequently decided that the things they enjoyed about football had been taken away so they were done with it, would you say "hey man, don't be so over-dramatic, try Tennis!"?
I think that's being a bit facetious Yodhrin.. there is a much, much smaller difference between one wargame and another, when compared to football and tennis. Half of them have been designed by the same people for a start, or borrowed elements/mechanics from one or another..
or you could.. you know just find another game system to play your miniatures with. Just use the same lore and expand on it if you want. Find other people that are fed up and make a group,you already have models all you need is a rule set.
I think that's being a bit facetious Yodhrin.. there is a much, much smaller difference between one wargame and another, when compared to football and tennis. Half of them have been designed by the same people for a start, or borrowed elements/mechanics from one or another..
It really depends on what Ogrechubbs meant by 'hobby'. In the sense that GW attempts to pretend that they are a complete hobby then I agree completely with Yodhrins comments, in the wider wargaming sense then obviously giving up on little men entirely is the nuclear option.
Had this come down from one of the LGS I buy from online;
"Age of Sigmar is coming. What is actually contains or what rules will be present is anyones guess!!
This will be available to pre-order from us at 10am on 4th July. It will be 25% off RRP until Monday 7th July to give you some heads up. After this time it will return to 20%
We will also be having an Age of Sigmar event on the 12th July to attempt to try and figure out what is going on!!
More information will be available in due course!"
Though unlike the thing on BOLS where the guy was on about prelaunch event to drum up interest this has launch day event..... still at 25% off I'll jump on this and simply resell it easy if its not great.
Davylove21 wrote:
GW aren't actually the King of anyone.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:If you can afford multiple armies and want to continue playing Warhammer Fantasy, why not build modest sized armies for multiple factions (say 2000-3000 points) and collect all the rulebooks, so that you can provide all the materials necessary to play the game and the only investment you're asking of your opponents is their time? People might be more inclined to play a game if they don't have to make a huge financial investment.
I'm doing it with LOTR SBG.
People do this at my gaming club, but with board games. Between the ~10 of us, we own like 20+ board games. Games that I would never have played if somebody else hadn't made the investment on my behalf.
Haight wrote:Yup, I already do that. I have 3 really close friends that play and have armies. I have 3 more that play because they use one of mine, but either don't have the means or quite the desire level enough to take the plunge. Between my combined flavors of Elves, ogres, and chaos dwarves, I have enough to supply probably 5 other people playing.
I think its cool there are other people out there that do this with games they like.
This! It's not difficult, at all. I've put on intro games of Gutshot (pretty easy when you just need a handful of wild west minis and photocopies of the character and action sheets. I should show off me makeshift cardboard town too.), put on a quick intro of Dystopian Wars by splitting a starter box and a couple of extras, introduced a club to Warlord Games' trio of rules (they already had their armies, particularly ECW armies, and were looking for better rules 'cos Warhammer Historicals wasn't cutting it), and I've got a couple of Warmaster armies that need a few finishing touches and unit calculations 'til I put on some games of Mayhem. I'd bought a bunch of cheap starter set Skaven off ebay for the same purpose (but on a bigger scale) and still might carry that out, or I might save them for Dragon Rampant instead. (Smaller, almost skirmish armies, arguably better suited for the cost and preparation of 28mm minis. Sounds familiar...)
Kendo wrote:But seriously, that might work for board games but who can afford multiple armies of 500 to 1000 dollars a piece. I love encouraging my friends to share my hobbies but that is a bit excessive.
Hence my last sentence. Heck, even other mass battle systems don't demand the sheer unit footprint area combined with an expensive wound marker per every 20x20mm or so of it, as Warhammer does.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Is LOTR still around even? I always found it to be superior to WFB......
Hell yes. Its a small but vibrant community. Just look up the Great British Hobbit League on facebook, and the One RIng forum.
This. Just 'cos it's not being played in GW stores, or even FLGSs trying to sell the newest stuff, doesn't mean it's gone, or 'dead'.
Lots of people on this very forum have several armies, built up over years.
And like I said, if people would just free themselves of this blindly loyal mindset of only ever using GW models, then they could shop around for cheaper alternatives.
cerealkiller195 wrote:or you could.. you know just find another game system to play your miniatures with. Just use the same lore and expand on it if you want. Find other people that are fed up and make a group,you already have models all you need is a rule set.
This too! Can't understand how people cling so hard to the idea that they (and their gaming buddies) somehow won't be able to play big-battle Warhammer with their multiple, viable, big-battle Warhammer armies. Or with other manufacturers armies.(remember Mantic, Gamezone, Avatars of War, Shieldwolf et al, at the very least?) Or other games with their Warhammer armies. The ability and availability for a gaming group to pick and choose for themselves whatever minis, rules and background they prefer is greater than a lot of GW or other gamers seem to think, if they just take a few small steps.
OgreChubbs wrote:
hmmmm you may have saved my wargaming life and murdered my wallet lol.
As above, why murdered? Don't you already have Warhammer armies?
cerealkiller195 wrote:or you could.. you know just find another game system to play your miniatures with. Just use the same lore and expand on it if you want. Find other people that are fed up and make a group,you already have models all you need is a rule set.
This too! Can't understand how people cling so hard to the idea that they (and their gaming buddies) somehow won't be able to play big-battle Warhammer with their multiple, viable, big-battle Warhammer armies. Or with other manufacturers armies.(remember Mantic, Gamezone, Avatars of War, Shieldwolf et al, at the very least?) Or other games with their Warhammer armies. The ability and availability for a gaming group to pick and choose for themselves whatever minis, rules and background they prefer is greater than a lot of GW or other gamers seem to think, if they just take a few small steps.
The difficulty with this is that a large part of the appeal of GW games is the ability to take those models to any gaming store and play the same game you can't get that just by organizing a gaming group. There is also a lot more inertia in getting a gaming group to use rules that are effectively unknown. I've seen it happen; if GW has a bad rule people complain but largely accept it because ultimately that play anywhere appeal outweighs the flaw, but when you're trying to get players to use a new rule set that doesn't have that when you hit flaws "the game is broken" and people just start dropping out.
ImAGeek wrote: I'm actually tentatively excited to see the outcome of all this.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what they come up with to reinvigorate the line! Only AFTER I have tried the game and read the fluff I will either be sad to see it's passing or cheer for its success, but only after.
How about we wait and see eh? How do you know the sky is falling if FIFA haven't told you anything about the new game? The best response would be to wait and see and after you have tried the new game if you do not like the changes then any statements about quiting wouldn't be seen as childish.
If everyone adopted a 'wait and see' approach there wouldn't be much rumour discussion going on in the rumour forum. Just saying.
Lol where did I say rumours can't be discussed? I said only to wait and see to see what the game and fluff is actually like before throwing away your toys. Just saying.
cerealkiller195 wrote:or you could.. you know just find another game system to play your miniatures with. Just use the same lore and expand on it if you want. Find other people that are fed up and make a group,you already have models all you need is a rule set.
This too! Can't understand how people cling so hard to the idea that they (and their gaming buddies) somehow won't be able to play big-battle Warhammer with their multiple, viable, big-battle Warhammer armies. Or with other manufacturers armies.(remember Mantic, Gamezone, Avatars of War, Shieldwolf et al, at the very least?) Or other games with their Warhammer armies. The ability and availability for a gaming group to pick and choose for themselves whatever minis, rules and background they prefer is greater than a lot of GW or other gamers seem to think, if they just take a few small steps.
The difficulty with this is that a large part of the appeal of GW games is the ability to take those models to any gaming store and play the same game you can't get that just by organizing a gaming group. There is also a lot more inertia in getting a gaming group to use rules that are effectively unknown. I've seen it happen; if GW has a bad rule people complain but largely accept it because ultimately that play anywhere appeal outweighs the flaw, but when you're trying to get players to use a new rule set that doesn't have that when you hit flaws "the game is broken" and people just start dropping out.
Yeah, pretty much.
The whole "GW isn't going to melt your models and shred the old books!" argument is a pretty lame one.
Clearly GW isn't going to do these things but unless you have a stellar gaming group and/or gaming space in your basement, once a game is 'dead', it becomes increasingly difficult and inevitably impossible to find a game.
Still, all things change, I suppose.
Maybe there will be enough people upset and unhappy with AoS that there will be enough momentum to keep 'Warhammer' unofficially going.
aka_mythos wrote: The difficulty with this is that a large part of the appeal of GW games is the ability to take those models to any gaming store and play the same game you can't get that just by organizing a gaming group. There is also a lot more inertia in getting a gaming group to use rules that are effectively unknown. I've seen it happen; if GW has a bad rule people complain but largely accept it because ultimately that play anywhere appeal outweighs the flaw, but when you're trying to get players to use a new rule set that doesn't have that when you hit flaws "the game is broken" and people just start dropping out.
But Warhammer has exactly this problem.
You cannot get into a store ans play Warhammer. First you have to ask which houserules they use or if they use a different army composition system.
Also if you have a gaming group, there are never all satisfied with the houserules some players want to use.
Playing Warhammer outside your own group or a GW store leads to the same problems like playing a different rule set.
Interesting how on the GW website right now for the Warhammer portion all of the End Times books are on the page for it...not sure why they would do that if the new edition is coming out soon?
I want some picture or some sort of more solid rumours. I want it to be July 4th already
ImAGeek wrote: I'm actually tentatively excited to see the outcome of all this.
As someone who buys almost no Warhammer Fantasy models and doesn't play WHFB (Excluding Bloodthirster, which can be fielded for 40k, the only models I bought last year were Nagash and Treeman Ancient), Sigmar sounds kind of neat, and I *might* buy it just for kicks and small turn games.
If the games are short, it may turn into something that we play sporadically, as we do with Kill Team and Warmachines -- happens some times if a couple of us are early and we're waiting on people; or we finish early and the night is to late to start another proper game.
chiefbigredman wrote: Interesting how on the GW website right now for the Warhammer portion all of the End Times books are on the page for it...not sure why they would do that if the new edition is coming out soon?
I want some picture or some sort of more solid rumours. I want it to be July 4th already
Because they won't do anything to let us know about a new edition until a week before it's released. they won't stop selling anything until then.
ImAGeek wrote: I'm actually tentatively excited to see the outcome of all this.
As someone who buys almost no Warhammer Fantasy models and doesn't play WHFB (Excluding Bloodthirster, which can be fielded for 40k, the only models I bought last year were Nagash and Treeman Ancient), Sigmar sounds kind of neat, and I *might* buy it just for kicks and small turn games.
If the games are short, it may turn into something that we play sporadically, as we do with Kill Team and Warmachines -- happens some times if a couple of us are early and we're waiting on people; or we finish early and the night is to late to start another proper game.
Yeah, I was full set to get into WHF and pretty annoyed by these rumours 5 months ago, but actually things like the massive scale of the game were a bit offputting. If smaller games are a possibility, then I'll be more interested. The factions sound pretty intriguing. Lizardmen seem to still be around in some form. It definitely seems better than I feared. Wait and see I guess.
yes the "appeal" of GW is the argument you can walk into any store and it is likely you will find a game. For tournament players i will give you that much, but you also have those people that never leave their local group or store that still complain about the rules and how they want to fix them. When they could at least approach their group about using different rules or just a different game in general. But they are scared to even try they rather go through the same "beaten wife syndrome" routine of "yeah it's bad but it's better than nothing and i already have the models.. i only need to buy a codex/rulebook to stay current".
Sad thing, I believe that the leaks that GW used to complain about did more to advertise their releases than GW themselves ever did.... So GW shut them down.
Actually some of the divergent chatter has been interesting, and its still a good place for any leaks, new info that comes to light and for it to be discussed.
So my request was a polite lets not spam this to death eh? ...or at least go find or start a thread discussing the implications over in Warhammer General.
If there is no new news or rumors to report or discuss, then it is OK to not post anything
Let's let this thread die down if there is nothing new to talk about, so that it can remain open and ready for the moment the cat gets out of the bag...
I heard 70 lb, 110 dollars. And that is 3rd hand info from friend friend of...someone in UK unknown to me. In line with other GW sets, but IMHO, still high for a 'Starter'.
I heard 70 lb, 110 dollars. And that is 3rd hand info from friend friend of...someone in UK unknown to me. In line with other GW sets, but IMHO, still high for a 'Starter'.
By way of comparison, Dropzone Commander is £60 and Star Wars Armada is £80.
I heard 70 lb, 110 dollars. And that is 3rd hand info from friend friend of...someone in UK unknown to me. In line with other GW sets, but IMHO, still high for a 'Starter'.
By way of comparison, Dropzone Commander is £60 and Star Wars Armada is £80.
Yeah but you know what you are getting with those - BORING!
The extra money is for all the extra GW Surprisium the box will contain.
To be honest, £70 isn't ridiculously priced for a starter. - Particularly if it is a 'full game in a box' experience, or it has all new sculpts.
I think FFG still hold the 'ridiculous price for a starter' award with Star Wars Armada, which is literally half a game in there. - Conversely, their Imperial Assault set for the same price, is basically 2 games, one of which is a fully fleshed out campaign system that you could entirely possibly play every week for a year and still experience new things from.
Compel wrote: To be honest, £70 isn't ridiculously priced for a starter. - Particularly if it is a 'full game in a box' experience, or it has all new sculpts.
I think FFG still hold the 'ridiculous price for a starter' award with Star Wars Armada, which is literally half a game in there. -
Well, I think that particular price must go to Corvus Belli, which only ship you 14 unpainted, mono-pose 80s-style pewter miniatures and a crappy paper posters of the quality you wouldn't dare put into the cheapest kind of titty-magazine for their starter for nearly the same price.
At least the FFGs stuff is painted miniatures, loads of cards cards, tokens, dials, range-measure-thingy in high quality, etc.., etc.. Still expensive.
Compel wrote: To be honest, £70 isn't ridiculously priced for a starter. - Particularly if it is a 'full game in a box' experience, or it has all new sculpts.
I think FFG still hold the 'ridiculous price for a starter' award with Star Wars Armada, which is literally half a game in there. -
Well, I think that particular price must go to Corvus Belli, which only ship you 14 unpainted, mono-pose 80s-style pewter miniatures and a crappy paper posters of the quality you wouldn't dare put into the cheapest kind of titty-magazine for their starter for nearly the same price.
At least the FFGs stuff is painted miniatures, loads of cards cards, tokens, dials, range-measure-thingy in high quality, etc.., etc.. Still expensive.
Painted miniatures isn't necessarily a good thing for everyone in this hobby. And while there aren't many minis in Operation: Icestorm, the quality of them is amazing, and you hardly need anymore for a proper sized force.
I heard 70 lb, 110 dollars. And that is 3rd hand info from friend friend of...someone in UK unknown to me. In line with other GW sets, but IMHO, still high for a 'Starter'.
That's pretty reasonable. I thought it'd be at least £75-80.
Painted miniatures isn't necessarily a good thing for everyone in this hobby. And while there aren't many minis in Operation: Icestorm, the quality of them is amazing, and you hardly need anymore for a proper sized force.
Painted minis might not be what you're looking for, but it's a cost I can see going into a box. As is a Star Wars license. Don't want it? Fair enough. But I can see the cost.
14 metal minis, mono-pose with no options don't justify more than 20 quid max. Whatever the game rules may or may not be. Just like you might not care about pre-paints, not everyone might care about the rules. What if I want to use them to proxy a 40KApoc game? What if I am only a painter? Etc..
Mini-for-mini-for-quality, Operation Icestorm is far, far, far and away the worst "deal" on the starter-set market.
Because it's a starter set, to get people started in the game. Of course rules are important. Obviously you might get less value if you're using it for something other than its purpose.
ImAGeek wrote: Because it's a starter set, to get people started in the game. Of course rules are important. Obviously you might get less value if you're using it for something other than its purpose.
Oh. That's right. Unlike every other starter-box on the market, Operation Icestorm doesn't even give you the full rules of the game!!! Lol! What a fantastic way to get started!
Anybody saying that they will pay no more than £20 for 14 metal models of the highest quality is talking custard. In my totally subjective opinion, naturally. Anyway, £70 for a GW starter would seem suspiciously acceptable. I mean, the Assassins thing was more than that. But I suspect that GW (along with most every other company) is trying hard to keep starters within the price range that people would be happy to buy one and split it with a friend.
If Infinity is so great at miniatures, it shouldn't be a big problem for them to put some 25 to 30 or so multi-part plastic miniatures into a 65 - 75 quid starter set, including some dreadnought-sized guys (TAGs), as well as maybe a deadzone style rubber mat, some hard plastic terrain and a 40K-style complete mini-rulebook of N3.
If you don't need that many minis for the game, just put in 4 or 5 factions.
It's not rocket science people ask of Corvus Belli. The above would put them roughly into the mid-field of "normal" starter sets of the kind you get for DZC, 40K, etc.., etc.. , and from there they could let their quality speak for themselves.
I think PV overstates his preference but the OP:IceStorm minis are very very nice. There, that's as close to agreement with PV that I am willing to make.
Are they worth only £20? I would suggest they are worth allot more than that.
The rest of the IceStorm contents not so much. A limited rulebook is fine for literal beginners but leaves allot to be desired by an experienced gamer. Free download, fine but it would leave be disappointed as I thought I would've bought the whole book for that price!
Card terrain, nice design but a bit flimsy.
Anyway this is all irrelevant as on current GW form for starter boxes I am expecting a good sized box packed to the gunnels with new plastic models that I will like quite a bit and find good value for money. I'm more concerned by the rules than the models to be honest.
Wonderwolf wrote: If Infinity is so great at miniatures, it shouldn't be a big problem for them to put some 25 to 30 or so multi-part plastic miniatures into a 65 - 75 quid starter set, including some dreadnought-sized guys (TAGs), as well as maybe a deadzone style rubber mat, some hard plastic terrain and a 40K-style complete mini-rulebook of N3.
If you don't need that many minis for the game, just put in 4 or 5 factions.
It's not rocket science people ask of Corvus Belli. The above would put them roughly into the mid-field of "normal" starter sets of the kind you get for DZC, 40K, etc.., etc.. , and from there they could let their quality speak for themselves.
Why would they wan't to do that? Why would anyone that likes CB's miniatures wan't that, even?
Metal is a vastly superior medium to plastic and multi-part plastic miniatures are soulless abominations that suck all the dynamism away from a sculpt.
And they do let their quality speak for themselves, that is why CB is growing by double digits every year while GW is shrinking.
I strongly disagree that infnity minis are of a higher quality than GW ones. While i agree that most of the.minis in icestorm are stunning, the commissar cultist champion is imo, one of the coolest mini ever made. But, its a sterile discussion, since its mostly subjective.
But objectively, comparing infinity growth to GW stagnation (or even shrinking) is futile, since their respective share of the market are world aparts.
streetsamurai wrote: I don't think that it is debatable that that what you get in operation icestorm for the price is pretty bad.
This thing is pretty much the same price as Dark vengeance, yet you get a lot less minis. And I don't think that the quality is any better either
The quality of Infinity miniatures is miles ahead of anything produced by GW.
Yeah, no way. Might be equal though. Obviously you could prefer true scale to heroic, but quality-wise GW is at or near the top. Have you seen the latest plastic sculpts, like the Skitarii? Detail level has come a loooong way and I'm not convinced metal has that much of an advantage anymore.
Wonderwolf wrote: If Infinity is so great at miniatures, it shouldn't be a big problem for them to put some 25 to 30 or so multi-part plastic miniatures into a 65 - 75 quid starter set, including some dreadnought-sized guys (TAGs), as well as maybe a deadzone style rubber mat, some hard plastic terrain and a 40K-style complete mini-rulebook of N3.
If you don't need that many minis for the game, just put in 4 or 5 factions.
It's not rocket science people ask of Corvus Belli. The above would put them roughly into the mid-field of "normal" starter sets of the kind you get for DZC, 40K, etc.., etc.. , and from there they could let their quality speak for themselves.
Why would they wan't to do that? Why would anyone that likes CB's miniatures wan't that, even?
Metal is a vastly superior medium to plastic and multi-part plastic miniatures are soulless abominations that suck all the dynamism away from a sculpt.
And they do let their quality speak for themselves, that is why CB is growing by double digits every year while GW is shrinking.
CB are able to grow that much because they are a tiny company. How much are they growing in actual revenue? Won't even comment on the multi-part thing.
Seriously, guys, if it's not related to Age of Sigmar, please take it elsewhere. There are PLENTY of places on this site to discuss these things, and THIS space is for news and rumors related to Age of Sigmar.
I heard 70 lb, 110 dollars. And that is 3rd hand info from friend friend of...someone in UK unknown to me. In line with other GW sets, but IMHO, still high for a 'Starter'.
So $110 for a starter--how much for the rules themselves?
Painted miniatures isn't necessarily a good thing for everyone in this hobby. And while there aren't many minis in Operation: Icestorm, the quality of them is amazing, and you hardly need anymore for a proper sized force.
Painted minis might not be what you're looking for, but it's a cost I can see going into a box. As is a Star Wars license. Don't want it? Fair enough. But I can see the cost.
14 metal minis, mono-pose with no options don't justify more than 20 quid max. Whatever the game rules may or may not be. Just like you might not care about pre-paints, not everyone might care about the rules. What if I want to use them to proxy a 40KApoc game? What if I am only a painter? Etc..
Mini-for-mini-for-quality, Operation Icestorm is far, far, far and away the worst "deal" on the starter-set market.
You say that FFG pre-paint. The Imperial Assault minis aren't pre-painted, either.
You complain Infinity being mono-pose... Erm, Have you seen any of the FFG stuff? Not exactly multipart multipose.
Why would you buy a STARTER set if you had no intention of starting the game? Of course, you have no intention. You just have sand in your crack about CB for some reason
FFG aren't all that. X-Wing requires you to buy two starter sets, then the same ship model numerous times just to get different pilot cards
Anyways, back On Topic -
I'm still a bit MEH about AoS. FFG know how to pormote a game, and CB were teasing O:I months in advance.
I heard 70 lb, 110 dollars. And that is 3rd hand info from friend friend of...someone in UK unknown to me. In line with other GW sets, but IMHO, still high for a 'Starter'.
So $110 for a starter--how much for the rules themselves?
When I mentioned it someone suggested it is probably the novel, which I (sadly) inclined to agree with, but something is apparently going to cost £25.
If it were a standalone rulebook, even small format, soft cover, I'd be delighted.
I heard 70 lb, 110 dollars. And that is 3rd hand info from friend friend of...someone in UK unknown to me. In line with other GW sets, but IMHO, still high for a 'Starter'.
So $110 for a starter--how much for the rules themselves?
I was wondering this too... Is the rulebook not going to be sold separately? Or is it all in one bundle: rulebook, minis and whatever else comes in the starter?
I heard 70 lb, 110 dollars. And that is 3rd hand info from friend friend of...someone in UK unknown to me. In line with other GW sets, but IMHO, still high for a 'Starter'.
So $110 for a starter--how much for the rules themselves?
I was wondering this too... Is the rulebook not going to be sold separately? Or is it all in one bundle: rulebook, minis and whatever else comes in the starter?
Well if it's a proper starter for the new edition it'll probably have a mini format rulebook in the box.
I have serious doubts that there will be any significant pressure to re-base existing armies onto round bases. If you look at the current space marine lineup it shows that GW is taking their sweet time to switch from 25mm to 32mm rounds on PA troops. From this information it isn't unreasonable to assume that only new fantasy kits will include round bases. On top of this GW doesn't want to discourage buying old kits (though they often seem to screw this up) they want to sell more with AoS.
A starter released before the rules will be a departure from GW's usual process of releasing the rules and then following up with a starter box (containing a mini-rulebook) a few months later.
agnosto wrote: A starter released before the rules will be a departure from GW's usual process of releasing the rules and then following up with a starter box (containing a mini-rulebook) a few months later.
Only recently though, I'm pretty sure Skull Pass came out before 7th ed Fantasy main rule book. Could be wrong but that's how I remember it.
Bottle wrote: It's not a "starter" set if there are no rules in it...
They've done starters with incomplete rules before, like the Hobbit without the points costs. So there's no guarantee that it'll be a full set of rules.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
agnosto wrote: A starter released before the rules will be a departure from GW's usual process of releasing the rules and then following up with a starter box (containing a mini-rulebook) a few months later.
I'm assuming it's because it'll be hard (or at least undesirable) to play the new game without the new mini's. They brought out the LOTR starter before the rules, for instance.
Remember this isn't being regarded as a 9th Ed Warhammer Fantasy, it's a 1st ed of a completely new game.
Bottle wrote: It's not a "starter" set if there are no rules in it...
They've done starters with incomplete rules before, like the Hobbit without the points costs. So there's no guarantee that it'll be a full set of rules.
Haven't reliable rumor mongers already stated that the AoS rules are going to be extremely minimalist and not a full mini rulebook?
I'm not so worried about my Wood Elves, who are skirmishy. I'm not so worried about my warriors, who are an elite army.
I fear for my undead, who I fear will be left in a weird spot without a horde of minis to back them up.
Undead used to function fine without hordes. I suspect they'll adjust for it and I'm expecting people will still be fielding units of 20 for things like zombies, goblins, skaven clanrats etc. Mark my words, 20 will be the new horde
Undead used to function fine without hordes. I suspect they'll adjust for it and I'm expecting people will still be fielding units of 20 for things like zombies, goblins, skaven clanrats etc. Mark my words, 20 will be the new horde
Warhammer is nothing without the rank and file, GW
EDIT - That's probably GW's ultimate dream. "You don't need an army to play the game. Just imagine the battle that's circling around these two heroes (bought to life via £60+ kits) as they duel for the fate of the Old World, Regalia whatever..."
I thought that the re-branding of GW stores to "WARHAMMER" meant a focus on their flagship two games. With "The Age of Sigmar" replacing WFB it seems GW is putting it's focus entirely on 40k.
GW used to make lots of games, then shifted to three main games and several "specialist" games, then just three, and now it looks like it's coming down to just 40k.
As far as the Old World (Europe) goes he's probably the top choice. If they mean the Old World (One they blew up yet everyone survived somehow) I'd agree.
theHandofGork wrote: I thought that the re-branding of GW stores to "WARHAMMER" meant a focus on their flagship two games. With "The Age of Sigmar" replacing WFB it seems GW is putting it's focus entirely on 40k.
GW used to make lots of games, then shifted to three main games and several "specialist" games, then just three, and now it looks like it's coming down to just 40k.
Truly the end times.
I don't think that them changing the name means that this isn't going to be a flagship game and 40k will be their lone focus (which by the way, most people refer to by leaving off the name "Warhammer"...). Whether it is called "Warhammer Fantasy" or "Age of Sigmar: A Warhammer Game" doesn't really matter. What matters is the system and the models and how well accepted it will be. Especially if they are rebranding the stores to be called Warhammer, might as well call the games different names, so people don't sound like morons saying "I'm going down to Warhammer to pick up models for Warhammer...."
That white dwarf info doesn't really say much which is unfortunate rules wise anyways.
As for the price... It's not too bad really if $110 is the usd price then I'd say $130-140 Canadian. I'd pay that as long as it comes with the rulebook like the current island of blood.
Don't have much to add but blimey, dat writin'. Especially the second page. "The whole world was in deadly peril. It was the worst peril. Trust us, it was too perilous!"
Eldarain wrote: As far as the Old World (Europe) goes he's probably the top choice. If they mean the Old World (One they blew up yet everyone survived somehow) I'd agree.
Even with Old World as being Europe, Snorri and Malekith were kicking daemonic and Orc and Gobbo arse on it long before Sigmar was even born. Not to mention that without Caledor and Aenarion there wouldn't be an Old World for Sigmar to have been born into.
NAVARRO wrote: Yup this is going to be herohammer all the way.
Yep. Was it 6th or 7th that was all about heroes?
And I love the continuation of the extremely poor writing. "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times in the age of most grim-darkest tragedy while forlorn and bereft of hope, the ultimate hero of any age looked upon the void that formerly held his world and a single tear slowly wound its way down his care worn cheek."
It talks about the heroic twins, "Teclis and Tyrion, who worked together to save Ulthuan from the vile Malekith."
Except ya know, there at the end, Teclis and Malekith battled and killed Tyrion, in an attempt to save all the world from Chaos, sinking Ultuan in the process..
It talks about the heroic twins, "Teclis and Tyrion, who worked together to save Ulthuan from the vile Malekith."
Except ya know, there at the end, Teclis and Malekith battled and killed Tyrion, in an attempt to save all the world from Chaos, sinking Ultuan in the process..
They better not ignore all the end times fluff.
Hey now! They can't be bothered with actually remembering the tripe that they just wrote a short time back, there's narratives that need to be forged here!
agnosto wrote: Hey now! They can't be bothered with actually remembering the tripe that they just wrote a short time back, there's narratives that need to be forged here!
That's because it's written from the point of view of imperial propaganda, you see! But you always have the option of ignoring a given piece of fluff with a successful roll-off against your opponent!
I mean doesn't old Siggy at least rate a model of his own, or even a new head or something?
Did Sigz ever ride a griffon even? I remember him being on foot all the time.
Those questions are answered in the last few End Times books.
Yep, as the WD leaks describe, he takes over the body of Karl Franz after he was killed in Glottkin. All of the pictures were of various End Times things that happened. Here's hoping for a new figure if he is a usable model in AoS, I would love to see an on foot and mounted set similar to the Valten figures.
It talks about the heroic twins, "Teclis and Tyrion, who worked together to save Ulthuan from the vile Malekith."
Except ya know, there at the end, Teclis and Malekith battled and killed Tyrion, in an attempt to save all the world from Chaos, sinking Ultuan in the process..
They better not ignore all the end times fluff.
Hey now! They can't be bothered with actually remembering the tripe that they just wrote a short time back, there's narratives that need to be forged here!
Or it's referencing the first invasion they helped turn back that Malekith lead against Ulthaan.
NAVARRO wrote: Yup this is going to be herohammer all the way.
Yep. Was it 6th or 7th that was all about heroes?
And I love the continuation of the extremely poor writing. "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times in the age of most grim-darkest tragedy while forlorn and bereft of hope, the ultimate hero of any age looked upon the void that formerly held his world and a single tear slowly wound its way down his care worn cheek."
Shoot me for reading that crap....please.
I believe it was 4th or 5th Edition... which brought upon Ravening Hordes and the complete reboot in 6th Ed. Maybe they're going the other way this time?
NAVARRO wrote: Yup this is going to be herohammer all the way.
Yep. Was it 6th or 7th that was all about heroes?
And I love the continuation of the extremely poor writing. "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times in the age of most grim-darkest tragedy while forlorn and bereft of hope, the ultimate hero of any age looked upon the void that formerly held his world and a single tear slowly wound its way down his care worn cheek."
Shoot me for reading that crap....please.
I believe it was 4th or 5th Edition... which brought upon Ravening Hordes and the complete reboot in 6th Ed. Maybe they're going the other way this time?
The current WD denote the next issue as including a look back on Warhammer (the games that is) history so I wouldn't expect an asexual lot on AoS stuff in it, just a recap of the End Times and a setup for the new Fluff. With a full release next week.
notprop wrote: The current WD denote the next issue as including a look back on Warhammer (the games that is) history so I wouldn't expect an asexual lot on AoS stuff in it, just a recap of the End Times and a setup for the new Fluff. With a full release next week.
notprop wrote: The current WD denote the next issue as including a look back on Warhammer (the games that is) history so I wouldn't expect an asexual lot on AoS stuff in it, just a recap of the End Times and a setup for the new Fluff. With a full release next week.
I'm sorry, but expect what?!!!
Yes, I am afraid that Slannesh has decided to be celibate. (I think that somebody had a problem with an automatic spellchecker....)
Am I going crazy? Or did I just have a post disappear completely for the second time today? Is there a MOD that has it out for me? Am I breaking a rule?
Back on topic. My guess on the 'not showing bases' in the WD pics is that they will be pushing the round/oval bases with this new game and those studio models still have square/rectangle bases....they might also be going for a more 'Cinematic' look, making it look more like a narrative snap-shot from the story, rather than two models facing each other.
I mean doesn't old Siggy at least rate a model of his own, or even a new head or something?
Did Sigz ever ride a griffon even? I remember him being on foot all the time.
Those questions are answered in the last few End Times books.
Yep, as the WD leaks describe, he takes over the body of Karl Franz after he was killed in Glottkin. All of the pictures were of various End Times things that happened. Here's hoping for a new figure if he is a usable model in AoS, I would love to see an on foot and mounted set similar to the Valten figures.
Yeah I always thought of Sigz as a big hulking conan type, no shirt, fur cape, long hair, big ole hammer.
Not a dainty dandy with feathers in his hat.
Have we reprinted this from BoLS yet?
We also have this piece of information from “Mikhael” indicating just how much of a change Age of Sigmar may be:
Regarding Age of Sigmar Product Changes
Retailers have been informed that these kits are will be pulled shortly after Age of Sigmar ships:
Empire Free Company
Empire State Troops
Empire Handgunners / Crossbowmen
Empire Great cannon / Mortar
Reiksguard / Knightly Order Box
Khorne Chaoslord on Juggernaut
Galrauch
Marauders of Chaos
Warriors of Chaos
Chosen
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth
Seems a shame to lose all those Empire foot troops, at least Frost Glaive seems to fill the gap of rough and ready medieval troops.
Things being pulled doesn't mean that they're being discontinued. It might be that they're going to change out the boxes.
State Troops and Handgunners/Crossbowmen at $25/10 aren't a bad deal...but it might be that they are going to be placed into a "combined box" since "State Troops" really refers to Halberdiers, Handgunners, Crossbowmen, Swordsmen, and Spearmen.
Free Company have been around for a LONG time. I'm surprised it's taken this long for them to go away.
Knights and the Great Cannon/Mortar are the same.
Now, on the Chaos side? I'm surprised to see Warriors of Chaos listed there, but the rest isn't surprising.
Yeah I always thought of Sigz as a big hulking conan type, no shirt, fur cape, long hair, big ole hammer.
Not a dainty dandy with feathers in his hat.
Have we reprinted this from BoLS yet?
We also have this piece of information from “Mikhael” indicating just how much of a change Age of Sigmar may be:
Regarding Age of Sigmar Product Changes
Retailers have been informed that these kits are will be pulled shortly after Age of Sigmar ships:
Empire Free Company
Empire State Troops
Empire Handgunners / Crossbowmen
Empire Great cannon / Mortar
Reiksguard / Knightly Order Box
Khorne Chaoslord on Juggernaut
Galrauch
Marauders of Chaos
Warriors of Chaos
Chosen
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth
Seems a shame to lose all those Empire foot troops, at least Frost Glaive seems to fill the gap of rough and ready medieval troops.
Agreed on Sigmar and how he should look. That would be awesome and my wallet would open instantly and deposit whatever funds are needed.
If that rumor is true, I may have to pick up another box or two of the militia/free company. I really enjoy that kit and all of the options it gives you to build a unit that looks interesting. Plus has plenty of bits left over to use with other models for kit-bashing or gives good options for Mordheim models.
The Knights are quite old and could use a bit of an update, even though they are solid models. With gunpowder going the way of the dodo in many of the rumors, that is no surprise on the cannon/handgunner front.
I don't even play WHFB, but I might need to buy a Dragon Ogre Shaggoth. I just looked it up and love the aesthetic of it, and could easily give it a home in a KoW Abyssal Dwarves army.
Now, on the Chaos side? I'm surprised to see Warriors of Chaos listed there, but the rest isn't surprising.
Yeah agree with that. Lovely sculpts and quite iconic; would have expected them to be kept on. Maybe GW has some new ones in the pipeline
As far as those White Dwarf screenshots go, the writing is fairly poor and uninspiring; getting fairly worried about the new fluff they bring out for this in a few weeks time now.
Yeah I always thought of Sigz as a big hulking conan type, no shirt, fur cape, long hair, big ole hammer.
Not a dainty dandy with feathers in his hat.
Unfortunately, Karl Franz's body isn't a "big hulking Conan type".
True, but now that the world is exploded and Sigmar is just a comet flying through space, he can kind of take any form he wants when he lands on this new planet/bubble/reality. Which means GW can make a new model for him ($$$$$$).
We also have this piece of information from “Mikhael” indicating just how much of a change Age of Sigmar may be:
Regarding Age of Sigmar Product Changes
Retailers have been informed that these kits are will be pulled shortly after Age of Sigmar ships:
Empire Free Company
Empire State Troops
Empire Handgunners / Crossbowmen
Empire Great cannon / Mortar
Reiksguard / Knightly Order Box
Khorne Chaoslord on Juggernaut
Galrauch
Marauders of Chaos
Warriors of Chaos
Chosen
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth
Seems a shame to lose all those Empire foot troops, at least Frost Glaive seems to fill the gap of rough and ready medieval troops.
Odd that the Free Company, Knightly Orders and Canon are being pulled when they are already directly only?? :-p
At first glance this looks like the whole Empire range might be dropped, but as other non direct only Empire kits are staying, and that those kits have the feathers and quills aesthetic to them, I am hoping the above kits are simply getting reworked :-D
Can we stop the QQ, Gw hates me and you and all of our moms, and get back to the topic?
Was at a GW Store today. Manager said books are still for sale for information purpose and he has plenty still. Just have to declare they are not usable with the age of sigmar.
They are not on the shelves, you just have to ask.
Further they have been going to work/sales clinics and one is this weekend in Minn. So hopefully we will get some reliable, non spolier, indication as what direction the game is going.
If fantasy sales have dropped, here is the play I would make as GW. Copy a format similiar to other games, such as 40k, warmachine, infinity... whatever it may be. Tweak it and see if the skirmish takes off, if not have rules and tools in place to do a later release of actual 9th that can be piggy back on Age of Sigmar, current non skirmish format, if that is the case. In either case, 8th edition is still good with all the tourney comps. Picked up a beastmen book of all things, and 2 beastmen battalions!!!
They didn't pull any 40k boxes to change bases from 25mm to 32mm.
They just made a new box, had stores sell through the 25s while offering a baggy of 32s then after the 25mm boxes were sold through--the 32s hit the shelves.
Chaos warriors get redone with the new faction box, combining knights/marauder horseman, then making a new chaos warrior with options not found on their current sprue and a new sculpt, making people spend oodles on chaos.
I personally hate the GW Chaos Warrior unit. The strange mono-pose leaves hardly ANY room for customization within the kit. They seem way to orderly for an army of chaos murderers. Nor does it contain the bits for two of the most popular weapons, great weapons and halberds.
Boring! It's supposed to be no week left unmodelled
The Windrider Host looks kind of like a good deal. Unfortunately, if I get 9 more windriders, and actually PLAY them, people will accuse me of windrider spam hahahaha.
That Windrider box also looks like a way better deal than the new Space Marines battle boxes.
Kanluwen wrote: They didn't pull any 40k boxes to change bases from 25mm to 32mm.
They just made a new box, had stores sell through the 25s while offering a baggy of 32s then after the 25mm boxes were sold through--the 32s hit the shelves.
I can't verify that as I didn't go through it myself but even so, the only pattern GW have is that they have no pattern, etc. Still seems plausible they're pulling them to reissue at least some of the kits with new bases, packaging, etc.
GW has been a 40k company for the past decade, and expanding WFB to split factions was a colossal waste of money and effort for everyone.
It's asinine how GW stuck with their buggy whip of a game for as long as they did.
I assume this is sarcasm as fantasy is and always has been a far superior system to 40k, it's just not as unique a setting and isn't as dumbed down, making it more challenging. 40k isn't a better game, it's just an easier/simpler game. Or it was until they complicated everything to the point of absurdity. Now it's not dumbed down, it's just full slow. And you never go full slow. Bad GW.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, chaos warriors are still a fantastic deal: less than $3 a figure. Not surprised they'd go up, and they're fairly old (6th Ed)
Chaos warriors get redone with the new faction box, combining knights/marauder horseman, then making a new chaos warrior with options not found on their current sprue and a new sculpt, making people spend oodles on chaos.
I personally hate the GW Chaos Warrior unit. The strange mono-pose leaves hardly ANY room for customization within the kit. They seem way to orderly for an army of chaos murderers. Nor does it contain the bits for two of the most popular weapons, great weapons and halberds.
I would almost agree, except the Warriors of Chaos Battalion box art was updated about a year ago - why would they spend that money on new artwork if they were going to have new sculpts?
If its only Empire and WoC that get kits pulled, most generic explanations (like boxes get rebased) sounds unlikely.
If true, it looks like these two armies get updates, or they would have pulled far more kits from other armies, right?
Anyway, I thought the fantasy kits had already started coming with round bases. Im sure my FLGS guy said so.
Fayric wrote: If its only Empire and WoC that get kits pulled, most generic explanations (like boxes get rebased) sounds unlikely.
If true, it looks like these two armies get updates, or they would have pulled far more kits from other armies, right?
Anyway, I thought the fantasy kits had already started coming with round bases. Im sure my FLGS guy said so.
I wouldn't be surprised if those models pulled were pulled for one of two reasons:
1) They will be included, in whole or in part, in the AOS boxed set, or
2) GW plans to 'rebox' them and lower the mini-count/up the price, as they've been so nice to do for us in the past.
We also have this piece of information from “Mikhael” indicating just how much of a change Age of Sigmar may be:
Regarding Age of Sigmar Product Changes
Retailers have been informed that these kits are will be pulled shortly after Age of Sigmar ships:
Empire Free Company
Empire State Troops
Empire Handgunners / Crossbowmen
Empire Great cannon / Mortar
Reiksguard / Knightly Order Box
Khorne Chaoslord on Juggernaut
Galrauch
Marauders of Chaos
Warriors of Chaos
Chosen
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth
Seems a shame to lose all those Empire foot troops, at least Frost Glaive seems to fill the gap of rough and ready medieval troops.
The Empire troops are all generic late medieval/renaissance troops that GW is trying to move away from IP wise. More surprised the great swords aren't on the list as they fall into that category as well. Suspect they are moving away from the Conan/heavy armor look of chaos as well. Not sure what will replace both factions.
Based on everything I have been reading over the last few months, one of the older release schedules had WHFB on a 6 week release, as well as a few precedences that GW have set with release like Khorne Daemonkin my predictions are as follows:
Week 1 - Age of sigmar starter kit and skirmish game
Week 2 - 9th edition mass battles (Harry mentioned last week i think that he thought 9th edition would drop within weeks of AoS so it may possibly be Empire first then 9th then chaos)
Week 3 and 4 - Empire including codex (if codexs are still a thing)
Week 5 and 6 - Chaos including codex (again if codexs are still a thing)
40k Week 1 - Tzzentch daemonkin and lord of change
That is of course based on the assumption that the 6 week release window that was rumoured is still true, those rumours were also talking about 9th edition being released earlier in the year so its possible that we may see an 8 week release or something I dont know but I am fully expecting to see chaos and empire released first followed by the other factions in future release windows.
Anyway these are my thoughts based on what i have read over the last few months.
2) GW plans to 'rebox' them and lower the mini-count/up the price, as they've been so nice to do for us in the past.
This is the most likely; we know the human/chaos factions are in the starter box, so it makes sense they'll be updated somehow. I'm assuming if we're going to a smaller model count game, these boxes will be repacked into 5's for about the same price. Maybe with some cosmetic changes to make them look different to historicals?
Is that even possible, with the way that the sprues work? I've never seen those models on the sprue, so I wouldn't know, but many boxes require all the sprues to be present to actually make any models at all. Excepting the command sprue.
You were really thinking that GW was going to want to sell you fewer models?!?
The latest edition of WFB really pushed fro those giant infantry blocks (which could then, bafflingly enough, be somewhat easily removed during the bonkers magic phase).
It is hard to conceive of a GW that really does wnat to sell you fewer of anything.
40K moved away from this back when 2nd switched to 3rd, and WFB has been doing it steadily from the start.
Anything small scale and skirmish gets the Specialist Treatment.
Bottle wrote: I thought we were getting a Skirmish game?
Why?
Like we thought we'd be getting WFB 9th, not Age of Sigmar?
Like we thought we'd be getting End-Times style combined factions?
Like we thought we'd be getting multiple game-modes?
Like we thought we'd be getting a narrative game of a small band of heroes running around End Times fights with random Meteors falling on them?
Like we thought we'd be getting "Forces of Light" vs. "Forces of Evil".
Like we thought Fantasy 9th Edition would come out Summer 2014, Fall 2014, January 2015, April 2015, etc..
Etc...
I think the only thing certain is that GW's secrecy is working and the last 12th months of Fantasy rumours was just one big troll-party. Why should "skirmish-rumours" be different?
I thought corporate GW had finally learned large model games can put people off from beginning rather than simply raises sales as players are "forced" to buy more.
So does everything suggest that AoS and 9th are going to be two different games with two different sets of rules? I was going to pre-order AoS but I think I will wait until the dust settles now.
Bottle wrote: I thought corporate GW had finally learned large model games can put people off from beginning rather than simply raises sales as players are "forced" to buy more.
That's because the "rumours" which suggested something along those lines never originated from GW, but from random people insensibly framing sensible/seemingly predictable things as fake-rumours.
Things sounded sensible, because they were echos of what the community thinks (and writes about), not echos of what GW may or may not have been doing.
Bottle wrote: I thought corporate GW had finally learned large model games can put people off from beginning rather than simply raises sales as players are "forced" to buy more.
That's because the "rumours" which suggested something along those lines never originated from GW, but from random people insensibly framing sensible/seemingly predictable things as fake-rumours.
Things sounded sensible, because they were echos of what the community thinks (and writes about), not echos of what GW may or may not have been doing.
Another major problem with GW's silent marketing strategy. Nature abhors a vacuum, so if there's no information officially from GW, it comes from elsewhere. Whether that information is correct or not is immaterial, as peeps make decisions based on that information, which only hurts GW.
Another major problem with GW's silent marketing strategy. Nature abhors a vacuum, so if there's no information officially from GW, it comes from elsewhere. Whether that information is correct or not is immaterial, as peeps make decisions based on that information, which only hurts GW.
Still stupid if people make assumptions about GW or GW products based on rumours, which we all know by now, should be taken with a lot of salt and be considered speculative unless there's something official on GW's website or in a White Dwarf. There're seemingly still quite a few vacuums in some people's skulls that nature seems to accept.
Anything small scale and skirmish gets the Specialist Treatment.
Even though a Gateway Game makes sense - I think!
Still, we'll see - in a few weeks!
This is what I've said in the past. AoS will be a Specialist game. It will be a bridge game between 8th and 9th. It would make a great intro game to bring new players into Warhammer if they didn't immediately discontinue it (which they will, because that's what they do). We'll get an official announcement about Warhammer 9 within 2 weeks of the release of AoS.
2) GW plans to 'rebox' them and lower the mini-count/up the price, as they've been so nice to do for us in the past.
This is the most likely; we know the human/chaos factions are in the starter box, so it makes sense they'll be updated somehow. I'm assuming if we're going to a smaller model count game, these boxes will be repacked into 5's for about the same price. Maybe with some cosmetic changes to make them look different to historicals?
Unless they make the minimum unit sizes into 5, that's not happening.
Gw makes more money by getting more players. We will see a smaller scale skirmish game simply to get new players into the game. Once they are hooked then they come around and sell you the AOS "apoc" which will be the 9th edition of WHFB. Massed battles wont go away they will come with a supplement to bring them back. SO those of us who have piles of models for fantasy will be able to play our massed battles but gw now has a Segway into getting people to eventually drop 2k down on a fully fleshed out army of 3k. The current state of fantasy is you have to drop at least $500 to get to a playable army now you can piecemeal it up to that point(which is far more acceptable to new players) while playing the game the whole time. They WILL sell us piles of minis that concept isn't going anywhere but they need to find a way to sell piles of minis to new players thus the skirmish game Segway. Sure it may end up being herohammer, so be it. 8th edition isn't going anywhere and people are going to keep playing it(at least in my area).
As far as kits being pulled, yeah im sure new sculpts for SOME of it will come out but im pretty positive it is just a repackaging of the kits and upping the cost. It has been done by GW in the past and makes sense with them wanting to gouge us more on overpriced yet excellent minis, imo. Things like the chaos warriors need new sculpts and will get them but the old ones will be usable. I am fairly certain of this because of what I have been told by a reliable source. A reliable source who WANTS to sell me new minis, so for him to say you don't have to buy any new ones is not his game. Im sure he would rather it be the case that I buy all new stuff but he wouldn't go so far to blatantly lie about it. He would rather me keep buying small amounts of minis here and there then lose me(being the veteran customer who spends money) entirely as a customer. The boxes will be repackaged into smaller numbers as you will need less to play AOS but have to buy more and more boxes if you want to play massed battles. That's the gw way.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote: What's with the square bases in those WD pics?
bases wont matter in AOS, square or round all the same
And, I must confess, their "no info" policy is working on me... I feel both excited and ashamed to admit it
Everyone needs to remember, these pics aren't of what is to come. These are pics of what was. These are not a confirmation either way as to what AoS really is. In all honesty, these are probably pics they already had for Visions/WD/ET fluff that they used previously.
Until we get images from the WD that will come out July 4, we will get no real idea of what AoS really is. Still totally surprised that images haven't leaked from a book yet - with ET Archaon, we had images from different parts well before the release. Really surprised with how under wraps GW has kept it.
Everyone needs to remember, these pics aren't of what is to come. These are pics of what was. These are not a confirmation either way as to what AoS really is. In all honesty, these are probably pics they already had for Visions/WD/ET fluff that they used previously.
Until we get images from the WD that will come out July 4, we will get no real idea of what AoS really is. Still totally surprised that images haven't leaked from a book yet - with ET Archaon, we had images from different parts well before the release. Really surprised with how under wraps GW has kept it.
So what were the WD photos from a few months back with Skaven Screaming Bells and Plagueclaws on Knight bases? "Leaks of things to come"?
Everyone needs to remember, these pics aren't of what is to come. These are pics of what was. These are not a confirmation either way as to what AoS really is. In all honesty, these are probably pics they already had for Visions/WD/ET fluff that they used previously.
Until we get images from the WD that will come out July 4, we will get no real idea of what AoS really is. Still totally surprised that images haven't leaked from a book yet - with ET Archaon, we had images from different parts well before the release. Really surprised with how under wraps GW has kept it.
So what were the WD photos from a few months back with Skaven Screaming Bells and Plagueclaws on Knight bases? "Leaks of things to come"?
it was said that was purely for aesthetics. its a display army, round bases look better on units not locked up in blocks
RiTides wrote: What's with the square bases in those WD pics?
These are pictures of current units. This is a look at Warhammer as it is today. It'll be next week's WD that'll provide some confirmation. Whether that's confirmation on bases is yet to be seen. Officially, there is no change to bases at this time.
Accolade wrote: So perhaps AoS will be akin to Kill-Team in 40k? Aka a page or two or rule tweaks to the massive-scale game, but otherwise quite secondary to it?
Only rumour and probably not. 7th ed 40k skirmish is like the Dark Vengeance boxset - 500 point games in a box with a smaller sized rulebook.
We also have this piece of information from “Mikhael” indicating just how much of a change Age of Sigmar may be:
Regarding Age of Sigmar Product Changes
Retailers have been informed that these kits are will be pulled shortly after Age of Sigmar ships:
Empire Free Company
Empire State Troops
Empire Handgunners / Crossbowmen
Empire Great cannon / Mortar
Reiksguard / Knightly Order Box
Khorne Chaoslord on Juggernaut
Galrauch
Marauders of Chaos
Warriors of Chaos
Chosen
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth
Seems a shame to lose all those Empire foot troops, at least Frost Glaive seems to fill the gap of rough and ready medieval troops.
The Empire troops are all generic late medieval/renaissance troops that GW is trying to move away from IP wise. More surprised the great swords aren't on the list as they fall into that category as well. Suspect they are moving away from the Conan/heavy armor look of chaos as well. Not sure what will replace both factions.
I'm not sure that they will loose those units. Looking at the list it looks like the empire and chaos will be the first ones to get new models.
It will probably be the two armies in the box. I don't want to have to scramble to buy up empire units if they suddenly say "let's stop selling all the empire troops" I'd be pretty upset since my empire army is only about 500-750 points right now...far from the 2500 I want.
Hopefully we get more news soon on this so I can be the state troops and more crossbowman before I can't anymore
Given that "the Empire" is no more, it makes total sense for GW to redo the packaging if not the contents. I don't believe GW can cut the model count, as GW now designs boxes as a single sprue.
I don't understand why GW would have pulled the Khorne stuff, except to remove the square bases.
2) GW plans to 'rebox' them and lower the mini-count/up the price, as they've been so nice to do for us in the past.
This is the most likely; we know the human/chaos factions are in the starter box, so it makes sense they'll be updated somehow. I'm assuming if we're going to a smaller model count game, these boxes will be repacked into 5's for about the same price. Maybe with some cosmetic changes to make them look different to historicals?
Sounds like something they would do! Remember when you could get a huge box of Urukhai for super cheap then they halfed the number in the box but kept the same price...they've done that with 40k stuff too right?
Maybe that means get as many boxes of state troops and chaos warriors when you can!
On this recent warhammer app advert they show an icon that has half being 40k imperial and half age of sigmar. Not to read into it too much but I think it's an interesting choice for design. Perhaps just to show what is currently revealed for fantasy or it could be that AoS is the overall title for fantasy going forward.
I've been hearing about 9th ed and my usual reaction is "brilliant, now all those army books and rules books I spent a fortune on will be obsolete again."
However from reading into 9th ed, it seems like the GW has basically said "screw Warhammer, let's make a medieval 40K with round bases like that LotR game no-one plays".
Now it's not so much the army books that are obsolete, but the hundreds of pounds worth of miniatures everyone owns, since apparently some units and even some races are being given the heave-ho.
All I can find on the net are rumours, often confusing or badly-worded. Are there any links to clear and concise explanations of what the End Times are and what's happening to Warhammer? I've been away from the fluff for a while and have no idea what's going on - just a growing sense of dread.
They killed Epic by giving it a total overhaul from Epic Space Marine into Epic Armageddon. Are they really going to take Warhammer a bridge too far?
I've been hearing about 9th ed and my usual reaction is "brilliant, now all those army books and rules books I spent a fortune on will be obsolete again."
However from reading into 9th ed, it seems like the GW has basically said "screw Warhammer, let's make a medieval 40K with round bases like that LotR game no-one plays".
Now it's not so much the army books that are obsolete, but the hundreds of pounds worth of miniatures everyone owns, since apparently some units and even some races are being given the heave-ho.
All I can find on the net are rumours, often confusing or badly-worded. Are there any links to clear and concise explanations of what the End Times are and what's happening to Warhammer? I've been away from the fluff for a while and have no idea what's going on - just a growing sense of dread.
They killed Epic by giving it a total overhaul from Epic Space Marine into Epic Armageddon. Are they really going to take Warhammer a bridge too far?
They raged quit the big ranks of things to go do skirmish things that PP is already doing.
Oooor its there attempt at the small scale game that people can get into first before weening them into the big rank and file stuff later?
All I can find on the net are rumours, often confusing or badly-worded. Are there any links to clear and concise explanations of what the End Times are and what's happening to Warhammer? I've been away from the fluff for a while and have no idea what's going on - just a growing sense of dread.
The End of Times was the end of warhammer, to simplify: almost everyone died, the world got blown up, the few survivors were thrown into alternate reality "bubbles".
As to what happens now, as you have surmised from those confusing, badly worded and often conflicting rumours, no one knows.
NoPoet wrote: Are there any links to clear and concise explanations of what the End Times are and what's happening to Warhammer? I've been away from the fluff for a while and have no idea what's going on - just a growing sense of dread.
To answer your question about anything solid being out there, there isn't anything yet. So far, it has been all rumor and speculation. Nothing firm has been leaked at this point except for the WD photos on the last two pages, which are just pictures of figures from ET and nothing actually to do with what is coming.
Now, some of these rumors have a bit more credibility, but there is nothing completely verified yet.
The others have explained the ET decently. The old Warhammer world was consumed by warp energy before it exploded, meaning parts of what was there was carried somewhere with it. Prior to that, the Lizardmen activated engines that flew their pyramids into space. Lots of special characters died, others were alive at the end and consumed by the warp. The Elves created some strange pocket reality that we haven't heard anything of since. The end of the last book was a comet hurtling through space, which was Sigmar. He is searching for a new place to call home, basically.
2) GW plans to 'rebox' them and lower the mini-count/up the price, as they've been so nice to do for us in the past.
This is the most likely; we know the human/chaos factions are in the starter box, so it makes sense they'll be updated somehow. I'm assuming if we're going to a smaller model count game, these boxes will be repacked into 5's for about the same price. Maybe with some cosmetic changes to make them look different to historicals?
Sounds like something they would do! Remember when you could get a huge box of Urukhai for super cheap then they halfed the number in the box but kept the same price...they've done that with 40k stuff too right?
Maybe that means get as many boxes of state troops and chaos warriors when you can!
Pretty sure they did that to Dire Avengers yeah... (they were a unit of 10 to a box when I bought them back in 5th, now 5 for sameish price).
2) GW plans to 'rebox' them and lower the mini-count/up the price, as they've been so nice to do for us in the past.
This is the most likely; we know the human/chaos factions are in the starter box, so it makes sense they'll be updated somehow. I'm assuming if we're going to a smaller model count game, these boxes will be repacked into 5's for about the same price. Maybe with some cosmetic changes to make them look different to historicals?
Sounds like something they would do! Remember when you could get a huge box of Urukhai for super cheap then they halfed the number in the box but kept the same price...they've done that with 40k stuff too right?
Maybe that means get as many boxes of state troops and chaos warriors when you can!
Pretty sure they did that to Dire Avengers yeah... (they were a unit of 10 to a box when I bought them back in 5th, now 5 for sameish price).
Except they also halved the unit size.
So unless you really think they're going to let you field 5 man units of Empire State Troops and 4 man units of Knights...
Hold on, I get this about "reality bubbles", but why in the name of Sigmar's massive trouser-hammer would any of these bubbles ever interact and not just fly off through the universe?
I really, really like the Warhammer fluff, literally the only things stopping me from playing it were the cost of the models (but I've got loads anyway gathered over the years) and not knowing anyone who plays it, which could be easily sorted out.
I for one would not want to play a reimagined Warhammer, surely there was a better way to get back into pole position without firing the Lizardmen into a black hole, and what's going to happen with all the fluff -- could this be what the GW's freelance writing position(s) is/are for, to help forge the new world?
In which case, I still want to write for the GW more than anything, but I would struggle to trash the fluff that we all grew up with -- and I certainly wouldn't want a dumbed-down version of Warhammer.
Will there be Age of Sigmar rules for the Warhammer Forge minatures or
a larger scale battle for Age of Sigmar that will use FW minis?
From FW
Good morning,
Thanks for your email. As you can imagine we are all excited about Age of Sigmar and what it means for Warhammer Forge. At this moment in time we are unable to share information about this though, as I am sure you can understand. My advice would be to sign up to the Forge World newsletter as this is the first place you will hear anything regarding this.
The good thing is, you won't have much longer to find out!
Well, what I heard was quite good. There will be a skirmish type game and both the good old big battles. The books are going to be redone into factions as they were in the End Times. The armies left might be combined into a book to, you'll still be able to play those armies separately. The most current army books will still be usable when the new ones come out. The rules for wood elves wont change... a lot. (maybe some new rules to go with The Age of Sigmar) All the current models will still be usable, might be that some boxes are being renamed or replaced though.
I can't say it's all real. But the source I got it from is rather reliable. So I hope it's true. Makes me rather excited. I'd like a Skirmish version.
2) GW plans to 'rebox' them and lower the mini-count/up the price, as they've been so nice to do for us in the past.
This is the most likely; we know the human/chaos factions are in the starter box, so it makes sense they'll be updated somehow. I'm assuming if we're going to a smaller model count game, these boxes will be repacked into 5's for about the same price. Maybe with some cosmetic changes to make them look different to historicals?
Sounds like something they would do! Remember when you could get a huge box of Urukhai for super cheap then they halfed the number in the box but kept the same price...they've done that with 40k stuff too right?
Maybe that means get as many boxes of state troops and chaos warriors when you can!
Pretty sure they did that to Dire Avengers yeah... (they were a unit of 10 to a box when I bought them back in 5th, now 5 for sameish price).
Except they also halved the unit size.
So unless you really think they're going to let you field 5 man units of Empire State Troops and 4 man units of Knights...
min da squads were for sure a thing when i bought them in 5th unless the box was from a previous edition. .. which is possible i suppose.
NoPoet wrote: However from reading into 9th ed, it seems like the GW has basically said "screw Warhammer, let's make a medieval 40K with round bases like that LotR game no-one plays".
Maybe in your neck of the woods, but LotR got lots of play around here probably at the expense of WHFB. It was cheap to buy into since you could play with a single box, but was crazy scalable as some tables I've seen started to look Helmdeep-ish. A lot of older historical players got into it because the LotR aesthetic was less OTT than the sometimes gonzo-ish Warhammer setting.
I personally don't like LotR as a setting and would have liked a more Warhammerish base to run LotR rules with. If AoS has the same philosophy of a more generic D&D/Tolkien setting and scalable rules like LotR then GW might have done the first good thing in ages. The fact they haven't just done a Find & Replace on LotR rulebooks also excites me because it means they are taking chances. That all being said, it doesn't mean I'll for sure buy into AoS. What it does mean is that I am paying attention to it that I never did WHFB.
The Grumpy Eldar wrote: Well, what I heard was quite good. There will be a skirmish type game and both the good old big battles. The books are going to be redone into factions as they were in the End Times. The armies left might be combined into a book to, you'll still be able to play those armies separately. The most current army books will still be usable when the new ones come out. The rules for wood elves wont change... a lot. (maybe some new rules to go with The Age of Sigmar) All the current models will still be usable, might be that some boxes are being renamed or replaced though.
I can't say it's all real. But the source I got it from is rather reliable. So I hope it's true. Makes me rather excited. I'd like a Skirmish version.
I'm sort of doubting that 8th edition books will be usable. GW has pulled them from shelves in stores, is going to remove them from the website, has asked LGS to not sell them anymore and give them inventory numbers. (Although not yet promised replacement in value.)
For the 8th edition books to be usable, the systems would have to be pretty close. But GW has said that this is "not 9th edition WFB, but an entirely new system".
29th is the day I've been promised "all the answers to all my questions".
NoPoet wrote: Hold on, I get this about "reality bubbles", but why in the name of Sigmar's massive trouser-hammer would any of these bubbles ever interact and not just fly off through the universe?
I really, really like the Warhammer fluff, literally the only things stopping me from playing it were the cost of the models (but I've got loads anyway gathered over the years) and not knowing anyone who plays it, which could be easily sorted out.
I for one would not want to play a reimagined Warhammer, surely there was a better way to get back into pole position without firing the Lizardmen into a black hole, and what's going to happen with all the fluff -- could this be what the GW's freelance writing position(s) is/are for, to help forge the new world?
In which case, I still want to write for the GW more than anything, but I would struggle to trash the fluff that we all grew up with -- and I certainly wouldn't want a dumbed-down version of Warhammer.
Yeah in summary the fluff they left as the foundation for the new game is a total shambles. I'd agree that there was a better way for them to get back into 'pole position' without pressing the red button on the setting and narrative. The problems were with the game mechanics which were economically aimed at getting players to buy more and more boxes of troops to make viable units. Solutions could have been price reductions instead of price increases (think the Witch Elf boxset ) or just changing the rules away from 8th's need to field huge units.
I'll admit I am still waiting to see what they have done with the game's setting but I'm still to what they did at the end of Archaon.
Regarding the writers trying to forge a new world...big big ask for them to pull it off convincingly.
Now it's not so much the army books that are obsolete, but the hundreds of pounds worth of miniatures everyone owns, since apparently some units and even some races are being given the heave-ho.
GW staff have been told that no miniatures (except Island of Blood) are being removed from the shelves.
Honestly, the rumours about lines being discontinued are pretty foolish- some kits probably have barely made any profit if they've been released over the past year or so.
Now it's not so much the army books that are obsolete, but the hundreds of pounds worth of miniatures everyone owns, since apparently some units and even some races are being given the heave-ho.
GW staff have been told that no miniatures (except Island of Blood) are being removed from the shelves.
Honestly, the rumours about lines being discontinued are pretty foolish- some kits probably have barely made any profit if they've been released over the past year or so.
And I've been told multiple times by my sales rep that all current models will be usable in AOS. Not that I take even what GW says as gospel until i see the book, but does not sound like they are purging races.
Bottle wrote: All the fluff is suggesting the scale will get bigger??
"Large units of models not only achievable, but also hugely desirable to model and paint"
You smoking that plastic crack now GW? Painting horde units is a chore, no matter how much you like painting.
I really hope GW aren't going to make the game bigger??? I thought we were getting a Skirmish game?
I'm really hoping it's a game that can work equally well for skirmishes and for big battles.
And if no one liked painting hordes, no one would ever play either skaven or goblins...
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Flashman wrote: Well if they stick with big units, there goes what little interest I have.
And if they eliminate big units they destroy my interest in it. If I was interested in skirmish games I'd already be playing Warmahordes. They can't satisfy everyone.
The Grumpy Eldar wrote: Well, what I heard was quite good. There will be a skirmish type game and both the good old big battles. The books are going to be redone into factions as they were in the End Times. The armies left might be combined into a book to, you'll still be able to play those armies separately. The most current army books will still be usable when the new ones come out. The rules for wood elves wont change... a lot. (maybe some new rules to go with The Age of Sigmar) All the current models will still be usable, might be that some boxes are being renamed or replaced though.
I can't say it's all real. But the source I got it from is rather reliable. So I hope it's true. Makes me rather excited. I'd like a Skirmish version.
I'm sort of doubting that 8th edition books will be usable. GW has pulled them from shelves in stores, is going to remove them from the website, has asked LGS to not sell them anymore and give them inventory numbers. (Although not yet promised replacement in value.)
For the 8th edition books to be usable, the systems would have to be pretty close. But GW has said that this is "not 9th edition WFB, but an entirely new system".
29th is the day I've been promised "all the answers to all my questions".
1x Empire General on Griffin
5x Knights of Sigmar
10x State Troops with Spears
10x State Troops with Muskets
1x Lord of Khorne on Daemonsteed
5x Chaos Knights
10x Chaos Warriors
-No small rulebook
-Full rules for all models
-Small intro of the fluff (Humans only)
-5 Scenarios to introduce players
-Text is written very childfriendly
I for one would love to know how the text for the Lord of Khorne on Daemonsteed is 'child-friendly'.
The Lord of Khorne on Daemonsteed is a very naughty man. He likes to play tricks on people and sometimes he even starts fights!
This is because he worships Khorne who is the god of body-juice and head bones. So we should celebrate him, even when he's naughty because he is practicing a different faith tradition and everyone has the freedom to practice their own faith.
Although he is very naughty, he also like ice cream and often buys ice cream for the Knights of Sigmar after they play their fighitng games.
So..two weeks out from the launch of one of their main product lines and all we have is a leaked white dwarf article reminding us that we love to buy citadel miniatures,
The only insight as what is to come?
remember all those apocalyptic, world shattering, epic battles of good vs. evil? yeah..think bigger. That's Age of Sigmar.
yep, considering is disastrous record, Ignoring Steve the warboss 'rumour' is pretty much the only rationnal way to act. The guy is a troll plain and simple
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, IIRC one the most reliable rumour monger said that snapfit will go the way of the dodo. Considering this, I think it's really plausible that we will get new chaos warriors and new marauders in the box set, since another runours said that the current warriors and marauders will be discontinued
mikhaila wrote: Hmm, by 'no small rulebook', i hope that means complete rules.
Funny I read it the other way, it only has rules for the models included in the game.
I guess we'll see.
Yeah, that is how i read it, which scares me.
If the AoS box doesn't have a big rulebook in it, and just a few scenarios, that means we are just waiting for some other product to come out, like a HC rulebook set, and this is just Warmaster version 2.0
mikhaila wrote: Hmm, by 'no small rulebook', i hope that means complete rules.
Funny I read it the other way, it only has rules for the models included in the game.
I guess we'll see.
Harry (or Hastings) has made comments that the game would be coming with a rule pamphlet and not a regular rule book. Probably something akin to the Warmachine quickstart rules in the starter unit boxes.
mikhaila wrote: Hmm, by 'no small rulebook', i hope that means complete rules.
Funny I read it the other way, it only has rules for the models included in the game.
I guess we'll see.
Harry (or Hastings) has made comments that the game would be coming with a rule pamphlet and not a regular rule book. Probably something akin to the Warmachine quickstart rules in the starter unit boxes.
Except with usual GW flair.. IE it'll be counterintuitive, expensive and poorly implemented.
With basically no rules in the box and the two most widely available armies (since its basically good humans v evil humans) I cant see this selling well.
Now it's not so much the army books that are obsolete, but the hundreds of pounds worth of miniatures everyone owns, since apparently some units and even some races are being given the heave-ho.
GW staff have been told that no miniatures (except Island of Blood) are being removed from the shelves.
Honestly, the rumours about lines being discontinued are pretty foolish- some kits probably have barely made any profit if they've been released over the past year or so.
Well, no more foolish than GW's decision making. GW has chosen to allow rumor and wishlisting to fill the space their advertising should be using.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Except Warmachine puts the QuickStart in the £35 sets and full rules in the £75 two player sets and £90 super bargain army boxes.
If AoS is over £50 and doesn't have the full rules, then I hope GW enjoys burying the unsold copies in a Nottingham landfill.
The starter boxes have always had the full rules, many people will buy the starter boxes even if they don't play either army just for that mini-rule book so they don't have to drag around their big hard back. They even went to the trouble of making a new mini rulebook to put in dark vengeance sets when 7th came out. GW's mini rule books have always been a huge selling point for their starter sets.
I truely can not belive for one moment they would not have a mini rule book in the starter set.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Except Warmachine puts the QuickStart in the £35 sets and full rules in the £75 two player sets and £90 super bargain army boxes.
If AoS is over £50 and doesn't have the full rules, then I hope GW enjoys burying the unsold copies in a Nottingham landfill.
The starter boxes have always had the full rules, many people will buy the starter boxes even if they don't play either army just for that mini-rule book so they don't have to drag around their big hard back. They even went to the trouble of making a new mini rulebook to put in dark vengeance sets when 7th came out. GW's mini rule books have always been a huge selling point for their starter sets.
I truely can not belive for one moment they would not have a mini rule book in the starter set.
100%! If this is true it is a terrible terrible move by GW.
The Starter Sets are more expensive than the full rule book and so including it in the box nets more money for GW. I am not sure who will buy the starter set if there are no rules in it. I am an Empire Player, but if I have to buy the large rule book anyway, I am not going to be getting the starter set because what worth does it have to me? Any money saved from the starter set now comes in the form of chaos miniatures that I don't particularly want...
..but.. but, if they give a full rulebook in the box, you don't need to immediately buy the £50 three book special a week or two later!!!
I really can see it, it fits with their current way of doing things on fast cash building releases. It will suck, partially as I like having the convenience of a small rulebook during battle time, but I sadly can see it happening.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Except Warmachine puts the QuickStart in the £35 sets and full rules in the £75 two player sets and £90 super bargain army boxes.
If AoS is over £50 and doesn't have the full rules, then I hope GW enjoys burying the unsold copies in a Nottingham landfill.
The starter boxes have always had the full rules
Not always. LOTR/Hobbit starters had cut down rules with no points/lists for anything not in the box, so you had to buy the BRB to actually play anything but the scenarios.
100%! If this is true it is a terrible terrible move by GW.
The Starter Sets are more expensive than the full rule book and so including it in the box nets more money for GW. I am not sure who will buy the starter set if there are no rules in it. I am an Empire Player, but if I have to buy the large rule book anyway, I am not going to be getting the starter set because what worth does it have to me? Any money saved from the starter set now comes in the form of chaos miniatures that I don't particularly want...
Yeh I'm with you on this as well. Actually I'm not interested in either empire or chaos particularly, no matter how great the minis might be in the box. If it doesn't contain complete and full rules for this new Warhammer then I won't be buying it, simple as that... I was actually planning on picking up age of sigmar, flogging both armies to other gamers (perhaps people who want to start empire or chaos armies) and then using the money from that to start up a new elf army when the army books are released and we know 'what is what' (like which units are still valid, what sort of bases they sit on, how units form up etc...). The only reason for me to buy age of sigmar is for the complete rules...
One of the previous starter boxes for 40k didn't have a full rulebook in if I recall correctly (was it battle for macragge?). So it's not like it would be unprecedented if it were true. Still doubt it, it'd be a bit of a flip-flop to go back to that.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Except Warmachine puts the QuickStart in the £35 sets and full rules in the £75 two player sets and £90 super bargain army boxes.
If AoS is over £50 and doesn't have the full rules, then I hope GW enjoys burying the unsold copies in a Nottingham landfill.
The starter boxes have always had the full rules
Not always. LOTR/Hobbit starters had cut down rules with no points/lists for anything not in the box, so you had to buy the BRB to actually play anything but the scenarios.
Maybe the hobbit, but the first 3 LotR sets all had a full rule book in them.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Except Warmachine puts the QuickStart in the £35 sets and full rules in the £75 two player sets and £90 super bargain army boxes.
If AoS is over £50 and doesn't have the full rules, then I hope GW enjoys burying the unsold copies in a Nottingham landfill.
The starter boxes have always had the full rules
Not always. LOTR/Hobbit starters had cut down rules with no points/lists for anything not in the box, so you had to buy the BRB to actually play anything but the scenarios.
Maybe the hobbit, but the first 3 LotR sets all had a full rule book in them.
Maybe when the LOTR starter set switched to the Mines of Moria set? Because yeah, the Fellowship, Towers and King sets all had the full rulebook in lovely glossy A4
TwilightSparkles wrote: Except Warmachine puts the QuickStart in the £35 sets and full rules in the £75 two player sets and £90 super bargain army boxes.
If AoS is over £50 and doesn't have the full rules, then I hope GW enjoys burying the unsold copies in a Nottingham landfill.
The starter boxes have always had the full rules
Not always. LOTR/Hobbit starters had cut down rules with no points/lists for anything not in the box, so you had to buy the BRB to actually play anything but the scenarios.
Maybe the hobbit, but the first 3 LotR sets all had a full rule book in them.
Maybe when the LOTR starter set switched to the Mines of Moria set? Because yeah, the Fellowship, Towers and King sets all had the full rulebook in lovely glossy A4
so did mines of moria and the hobbit starter. Both of those sets I split with others specifically for the small book. Maybe at one point it didn't but that wasn't always the case
^still have my mines of moria rulebook and models!
I never played that game though I just got the models to paint because I was young and just loved lord of the rings...then I picked up some dark eldar jet bikes and an eldar jetbike to paint and dropped the hobby for years and years...picked up 40k then fantasy (which I should have started in the first place because my friend, his brother and dad played)
I think they will include a rulebook within the kit...I highly doubt they wouldn't include it especially if the big rulebook is released the week after which is what I heard (read that somewhere??)
We should be getting some leaked images of the actual box contents soon I'm sure early next week...there's no way they can keep something this big under wraps till a few days before
I don't think that gw will not include a rulebook at least in a4 format. Simply this reimagining of fantasy is 100% geared towards getting new players into a system deemed "too expensive to start" so not having a rulebook with the starter is counter to that goal. There will be a VERY trimmed down version of the rulebook and they will still offer the full book at $100 now and a limited at like $225 just to see who will pay that nonsense. Those who want it will buy it and those who don't wont. The main source of rulebooks for players will be the starter book that contains ALL the rules for the skirmish game only.
There is zero talk about AoS at both of the FLGS I frequent. Was hoping it would bring in some new players but I don't see it happening in my small part of the world. Looks like I will have to travel to Pittsburgh if I want to get a game in
Its almost all we talk about at my local gw. Sure their are lots of 40k players but the entire fantasy crowd has been wishlisting and talking about it a lot. Helps the store manager is 99% fantasy and only 1% 40k. Midnight release is planned, he is getting rid of any 40k tables and terrain and replacing it with fantasy, etc. Lots of skeptics but still everyone is waiting to see what happens and plenty of 40k only players talking about making the jump into fantasy now if its affordable.
Bottle wrote: A rule book contains only the skirmish rules isn't a full rulebook.
Remember this isn't fantasy its AOS they are branding it as a NEW game not 9th edition. So the skirmish rules when released, im guessing here, will be the ONLY rules until a supplement is released for massed battles. I do not see gw missing the opportunity to sell us another book to play massed battles
I certrainly hope this is BS, because if true I can't see why anyone would buy it. Old minis and a crippled rule book? No thanks. The only way I see the AoS being any kind of success is if its packed with really brilliant new miniatures that will appeal to both new and old players.
I certrainly hope this is BS, because if true I can't see why anyone would buy it. Old minis and a crippled rule book? No thanks. The only way I see the AoS being any kind of success is if its packed with really brilliant new miniatures that will appeal to both new and old players.
What I don't believe in that rumor is it's going to cost under $100
I've been curiously following AOS as I've always been a 40k player, and this seems like a good time to make a transition to also play fantasy.
One thing I would like to say is, don't listen to this steve the war boss's recent BOLS rumor of the boxed set. So far, I'm pretty sure he's either completely wrong, or has just gotten the blatantly obvious rumors right.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Except Warmachine puts the QuickStart in the £35 sets and full rules in the £75 two player sets and £90 super bargain army boxes.
If AoS is over £50 and doesn't have the full rules, then I hope GW enjoys burying the unsold copies in a Nottingham landfill.
The starter boxes have always had the full rules, many people will buy the starter boxes even if they don't play either army just for that mini-rule book so they don't have to drag around their big hard back. They even went to the trouble of making a new mini rulebook to put in dark vengeance sets when 7th came out. GW's mini rule books have always been a huge selling point for their starter sets.
I truely can not belive for one moment they would not have a mini rule book in the starter set.
Except later LotR/Hobbit sets which featured horrible cut-down rules with exactly this situation (IE bare minimum rules and only for included models)
Bottle wrote: A rule book contains only the skirmish rules isn't a full rulebook.
Remember this isn't fantasy its AOS they are branding it as a NEW game not 9th edition. So the skirmish rules when released, im guessing here, will be the ONLY rules until a supplement is released for massed battles. I do not see gw missing the opportunity to sell us another book to play massed battles
If they wanted us to believe that gak, they ought not have removed all of the army books and put AoS placards in their places.
namiel wrote: Its almost all we talk about at my local gw. Sure their are lots of 40k players but the entire fantasy crowd has been wishlisting and talking about it a lot. Helps the store manager is 99% fantasy and only 1% 40k. Midnight release is planned, he is getting rid of any 40k tables and terrain and replacing it with fantasy, etc. Lots of skeptics but still everyone is waiting to see what happens and plenty of 40k only players talking about making the jump into fantasy now if its affordable.
Unfortunately this is the exact way GW builds up a lot of the resentment it generates from customers. No information, so its all wishlisting, and as you say at the end the assumption that 'now its affordable'.
The problem comes when what is released does not match those wishlists, or is not as affordable as some are hoping. This has a tendency to then become a GW problem, rather than just people getting the wrong idea. A recent example is the assassin game, a lack of information led to a build up of ideas about what it would be, and in the end it was just 4 new models with a load of extra sprues from a starter box for a typically GW pricepoint. If we had all known for 2 months beforehand that was what it was, would the disappointment been as prevalent? I'm not sure, the assassins are nice models after all.
This is the main issue with the no advertising thing, GW do not control the narrative, which inevitably leads to disappointment, and annoyed customers. They do only have themselves to blame for it though.
, If thats true, im Sticking with the 8th. ed 
... i just cant Break apart what took me years to do,... some are even over 25 y.o. 
I started back in 1980's,...
