5 words. Jaws of the World Wolf.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
Huh? Double post?

That be nice, but that only works in a challenge and if the WK is a character that can challenge I have zero chance since it can just smash the nob.

So then the WK will challenge, you deny.. and then "Our weapons are useless" and leave..

CleverAntics wrote:
Fortune!!! The WK will be invincible! He laughs at poison weapons then with a 3+ re-rollable!

Cause I'mma make sure he gets Fortune.

Might be hard to garuntee it.
But yeah, hard to kill with fortune: Roughly 160 shots with splinter weapons to kill that. - 14 Venoms.
60 shots for un-fortuned. (5 Venoms)
Or 18 Lance shots. (With no invun - 27 assuming an Invun save).
Either way, it's probably going to take 2 turns to kill the bugger.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
5 words. Jaws of the World Wolf.

It's an Eldar so it has I4 minimum. Not going to be so easy as poor 'Nids or Necrons.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
5 words. Jaws of the World Wolf.

This is a I4, potentially I5 Eldar model we are talking about here, with +1 for being an MC and probably some form of psychic defence to back it up, not an I1 Tyranid.

Jacob29 wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
Huh? Double post?

That be nice, but that only works in a challenge and if the WK is a character that can challenge I have zero chance since it can just smash the nob.

So then the WK will challenge, you deny.. and then "Our weapons are useless" and leave..

I'm a bit out of the 40k loop, but since the nob could hurt i believe the whole squad is unable to use "our weapons are useless". However the major thing that will likely be the case, and always has been the case for wraithlords, is you will use those 30 boys to tied up the wraith knight and jsut tar pit him the whole game.

 Ovion wrote:
Might be hard to garuntee it.

Maybe not - apparently Eldrad will have all of the Runes of Fate psychic powers.

He may be the only way of guaranteed powers in the Eldar codex now.

Iranna.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Might be hard to garuntee it.
But yeah, hard to kill with fortune: Roughly 160 shots with splinter weapons to kill that. - 14 Venoms.
60 shots for un-fortuned. (5 Venoms)
Or 18 Lance shots. (With no invun - 27 assuming an Invun save).
Either way, it's probably going to take 2 turns to kill the bugger.

Really depends on whether or not Warlocks are able to get in on the Rune & Fate Disciplines, and I believe they can; if so, you would bet people likely will be spamming them in order to get the good powers. Then you have Farseers who will be guaranteed to be ML3 since all the updated 6th edition books have been.

It's not invincible, no; but the urge to kill the new shiny model is just too sweet to resist I understand. My buddies do it to me all the time, lol.

Two Wraithlords also have 6 wounds, Toughness 8, and a 3+ armor save.

In the games I have seen at least two Wraithlords on the table, two wraithlords were dead by the end of turn one 100% of the time. Every single game.

T8 and 3+ isn't tough, not even with 6 wounds. It's fool's gold, and anyone who uses it deserves what they get.

Some confirmations:

Euro prices (former list was off):

Eldar Codex - 39€
Eldar LE Codex - 80€ (Was 70€ before)
WH40K PSYCHIC POWERS: ELDAR ENG - 6€
Farseer - 15€
Wraithknight - 90€
Wraithguard - 40€
Hemlock Wraithfighter - 50€
Dire Avengers (5 pack) - 26€ (was 30€ for 10 before)
Battleforce - 95€
Windrider Jetbike Squadron - 30€
Spiritseer - 15.50€
Illic Nightspear - 15.50€
IYANDEN: A CODEX ELDAR SUPPLEMENT - 39€ (release 15th June!)
IYANDEN CODEX SUPPLEMENT SPECIAL EDITION - 65€ (release 15th June!)

Also mail oder only Finecast Autarch on Jetbike upgrade pack (15.50€), Vyper squadron (65€), War Walker squadron (65€), and Support Weapon battery (50€). Also one click Saim Hann and Iyanden army sets and paint sets.

Iyanden Codex Supplement as printed copy, English only, mail order, not limited (but may need reprints) and released 2 weeks after the rest. (Special edition is limited of course )

GW expects supply problems as with Tau for the general release.

The LE went from € 70 to € 80... I guess they know their market. Hah.

Wraithguard probably 5? Too much to hope it's 10 for € 40.

5 is correct.

Not sure if they know their market: Eldar limited Codex looks boring and cheap, so raising prices now is not a good idea.

My issue is the T8. as an Ork player I am trying to figure out how to deal with T8. (and 9 when I face bugs) I can deal with T6 all day but when things with 7,8,9 show up I kind of just sit and take it,

As an ork player I have no effective way of deal with it at range. If I spam rokkits they only have a 50/50 to wonld it if hit and it doesn't have a cover or invul.

If I spam lootas. 45 loota shots may force 5 saves. 45 shots, 15 hits 5 wounds (doing math in my head). That is if I get the 45 shots.

My best bet would be CC and power fists. But that is one model that can hurt it. And a single model tying up my 30 man troops choice I need to hold an Objective isn't my idea of what I want to happen.

Sending nobz may work, a few will get smashed due to Insta-death then I have to hope my nobz can kill it on the charge.

Not to mention if it is a Heavy choice it can claim in Big Guns.

Do we yet have confirmation over just what the Iyanden book is?

As it is released 2 weeks later, we will get info 2 weeks later. Haven't seen the WD yet though.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
My issue is the T8. as an Ork player I am trying to figure out how to deal with T8. (and 9 when I face bugs)

Orks have problems. That doesn't make Wraithlords any tougher to kill by IG, DE, Tau, or every Marine color of the rainbow.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Two Wraithlords also have 6 wounds, Toughness 8, and a 3+ armor save.

In the games I have seen at least two Wraithlords on the table, two wraithlords were dead by the end of turn one 100% of the time. Every single game.

T8 and 3+ isn't tough, not even with 6 wounds. It's fool's gold, and anyone who uses it deserves what they get.

Provided WLs are T8 anymore. Not to mention it can gain wounds back from a new Psychic Power 'Renew'; or that it has an Invuln. unlike the WL; can get an Invuln from Psychic Powers. So...I'd say I don't agree there.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
My issue is the T8. as an Ork player I am trying to figure out how to deal with T8. (and 9 when I face bugs)

Orks have problems. That doesn't make Wraithlords any tougher to kill by IG, DE, Tau, or every Marine color of the rainbow.

I play orks though, so I am just suppose to have these things walk all over my army for the next 6+ months while I wait for a new codex ?

So your solution is ... What? Should units in the brand new Codex be too weak, because an old Codex (also being updated soon) doesn't have a proper counter?

If the proposed stat line is too strong, then 2x Wraithlords should be ruling the game right now. They're not.

I seriously don't understand what the problem is with T8.. It seems to be always related to "my S3/4 guys can't hurt a wraithlord so it must be OP". Toughness 8 in armor value is ONLY AV11/12 so it is no tougher than a dreadnought. Do you charge boyz at dreadnoughts knowing only the nob can damage it?

I bet you do..because the nob has power claw striking at S8/9 so it may TAKE a few rounds but its no different than hurting a walker (granted walkers suck in 6th anyway, but thats not the MC's fault). Main difference is people think they should be able to damage everything with a toughness value with any unit in their army.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Some confirmations:

Euro prices (former list was off):

Eldar Codex - 39€
Eldar LE Codex - 80€ (Was 70€ before)
WH40K PSYCHIC POWERS: ELDAR ENG - 6€
Farseer - 15€
Wraithknight - 90€
Wraithguard - 40€
Hemlock Wraithfighter - 50€
Dire Avengers (5 pack) - 26€ (was 30€ for 10 before)
Battleforce - 95€
Windrider Jetbike Squadron - 30€
Spiritseer - 15.50€
Illic Nightspear - 15.50€
IYANDEN: A CODEX ELDAR SUPPLEMENT - 39€ (release 15th June!)
IYANDEN CODEX SUPPLEMENT SPECIAL EDITION - 65€ (release 15th June!)

Well the Wraithguard certainly sound great for their price. They used to be 53 euros around here.
Jetbikes became a little cheaper to. Only the Wraithknight and Dire Avengers became pricey.

 Kirasu wrote:
I seriously don't understand what the problem is with T8.. It seems to be always related to "my S3/4 guys can't hurt a wraithlord so it must be OP". Toughness 8 in armor value is ONLY AV11/12 so it is no tougher than a dreadnought. Do you charge boyz at dreadnoughts knowing only the nob can damage it?

I bet you do..because the nob has power claw striking at S8/9 so it may TAKE a few rounds but its no different than hurting a walker (granted walkers suck in 6th anyway, but thats not the MC's fault). Main difference is people think they should be able to damage everything with a toughness value with any unit in their army.

I only need to pen the dread once in CC to destroy it or pen it once at range. And it doesn't have a save, and I can glance a dread to death at range.

Unlike marines I don't have Krak grenades on my boys as stock gear, so I cant be S6 for a single attack.

I don't have poison , S5, always wound on a 6 basic guns. And I don't have any STR 9 or 10 guns with AP 2-3. ( Other than a random chance weird boy power).

Also you can damage most VEHICLES with basic troops. Why are MC immune ?

So just not play vs eldar for half a year ?

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
My issue is the T8. as an
I play orks though, so I am just suppose to have these things walk all over my army for the next 6+ months while I wait for a new codex ?

Step one, take several packs of 30 boys
Step two, move several packs of 30 boys up the field
Step three, assault the Wraith Knight with a pack of 30 boys
Step four, giggle as the Wraith Knight kills 2-3 boys per turn till the game ends

Not sure what the issue here is...

If there is anything orcs should be complaining about it is the new Sniper character. Increase in pathfinder attractiveness = more sniper picking off your power claws.

don't play eldar

 ashikenshin wrote:
don't play eldar

I don't have a choice if I go to tournaments.

i was kidding, the "send 20 orks to tangle it up for a couple of turns" sounds good

 Kroothawk wrote:

Euro prices (former list was off):

Eldar Codex - 39€
Eldar LE Codex - 80€ (Was 70€ before)
WH40K PSYCHIC POWERS: ELDAR ENG - 6€
Farseer - 15€
Wraithknight - 90€
Wraithguard - 40€
Hemlock Wraithfighter - 50€
Dire Avengers (5 pack) - 26€ (was 30€ for 10 before)
Battleforce - 95€
Windrider Jetbike Squadron - 30€
Spiritseer - 15.50€
Illic Nightspear - 15.50€
IYANDEN: A CODEX ELDAR SUPPLEMENT - 39€ (release 15th June!)
IYANDEN CODEX SUPPLEMENT SPECIAL EDITION - 65€ (release 15th June!)

Also mail oder only Finecast Autarch on Jetbike upgrade pack (15.50€), Vyper squadron (65€), War Walker squadron (65€), and Support Weapon battery (50€). Also one click Saim Hann and Iyanden army sets and paint sets.

Well, repackaging Vypers, War Walkers, Jetbikes and Artillery do bring price drops to balance out that ridiculous Dire Avenger price hike: however does this mean as with Crisis Suits, that single box is removed?

 BlueDagger wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
My issue is the T8. as an
I play orks though, so I am just suppose to have these things walk all over my army for the next 6+ months while I wait for a new codex ?

Step one, take several packs of 30 boys
Step two, move several packs of 30 boys up the field
Step three, assault the Wraith Knight with a pack of 30 boys
Step four, giggle as the Wraith Knight kills 2-3 boys per turn till the game ends

Not sure what the issue here is...

If there is anything orcs should be complaining about it is the new Sniper character. Increase in pathfinder attractiveness = more sniper picking off your power claws.

Assuming the packs of 30 boys will still be 30 boyz if I ever catch the WK to assault it.

 BlueDagger wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
My issue is the T8. as an
I play orks though, so I am just suppose to have these things walk all over my army for the next 6+ months while I wait for a new codex ?

Step one, take several packs of 30 boys
Step two, move several packs of 30 boys up the field
Step three, assault the Wraith Knight with a pack of 30 boys
Step four, giggle as the Wraith Knight kills 2-3 boys per turn till the game ends

Not sure what the issue here is...

If there is anything orcs should be complaining about it is the new Sniper character. Increase in pathfinder attractiveness = more sniper picking off your power claws.

"several packs of 30 boys" cost more than a wraithknight
and are slower
and will be shot up to some extent if the Eldar player isnt asleep
not to mention the practicality of getting 100+ or so models across the board (which presumably has terrain on it)

Powerguy wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
5 words. Jaws of the World Wolf.

This is a I4, potentially I5 Eldar model we are talking about here, with +1 for being an MC and probably some form of psychic defence to back it up, not an I1 Tyranid.

Doesn't matter. I pass a psychic test. The Wraithlord then has a 1 in 12 (assuming the +2 to DtW from Runes of Warding) of being removed as a casualty. Find me something with better odds than that, that doesn't care about cover, or invulnerable saves, or the 6 wounds, or the 8 toughness. Your other options are things like running up and punching it in the dick with Skulltaker, or Skarbrand, or anyone with a decent strength and Instant Death melee attacks.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
My issue is the T8. as an Ork player I am trying to figure out how to deal with T8. (and 9 when I face bugs)

Orks have problems. That doesn't make Wraithlords any tougher to kill by IG, DE, Tau, or every Marine color of the rainbow.

I play orks though, so I am just suppose to have these things walk all over my army for the next 6+ months while I wait for a new codex ?

Ally with Necrons/Tau/Guard. Then smash it's face in.

 pretre wrote:
Harlequins will be exactly the same as the DE codex, almost guaranteed.

Unless they release a subcodex for an all Harlie army!

Don't mind me... just wishlisting...

I don't understand the consensus that some are laughing at T8 and W6. It's like it isn't even getting a save in these instances. If the 3++ is an upgrade or true, then that entire perspective is quite moot. This isn't even factoring Fortune, cover saves, etc. Makes a BIG difference, after all.

Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

I have no idea...

I'd throw my trukk boyz at 'em. Tie them up for most of the game...

That's how you play 'em.

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

Wraithlords had 3 wounds, no invul. were slow and had 1 or 2 fearsome not so fearsome guns.

And 2 attacks in melee.

Riptide has 3, WK will most likely have more at STR 10

It would be hard for Orks to catch it since he's going to be Jump/Jet Pack. Premeasuring can go a long way in ensuring that Boyz, let alone in Trukks/Battlewagons, won't be able to charge you.

CleverAntics wrote:
I don't understand the consensus that some are laughing at T8 and W6. It's like it isn't even getting a save in these instances. If the 3++ is an upgrade or true, then that entire perspective is quite moot. This isn't even factoring Fortune, cover saves, etc. Makes a BIG difference, after all.

I thought it only had a 5+ invulnerable save. If they gave it a 3+ invulnerable that would be excessive. Also by the same token, fortune only works if you get it off. I think that it's a really cool model. I just don't see it being around for the duration of the game.

 whembly wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

I have no idea...

I'd throw my trukk boyz at 'em. Tie them up for most of the game...

That's how you play 'em.

Trukk boyz assault, WK goes first kills 2-3. Nob maybe does a wound. Orks loos combat by 1-2 and are no longer fearless. They hold, next turn 2-3 more die, loose combate not test on a 6-7 flee get run down.

Oh and it is a MC so making Fear checks or hit on 6's ( I think that is the fear rule)

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

Wraithlords had 3 wounds, no invul. were slow and had 1 or 2 fearsome not so fearsome guns.

And 2 attacks in melee.

Riptide has 3, WK will most likely have more at STR 10

Wraithlords are S10 are they not?

Ooops
Double post FTL.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
My issue is the T8. as an Ork player I am trying to figure out how to deal with T8. (and 9 when I face bugs)

Orks have problems. That doesn't make Wraithlords any tougher to kill by IG, DE, Tau, or every Marine color of the rainbow.

I play orks though, so I am just suppose to have these things walk all over my army for the next 6+ months while I wait for a new codex ?

Handle it in proper Orky fashion- get inventive.
Shokk Attack guns, MANZ squads, swamping the thing with Loota shots, crush it with Deffrollas or the good old Biker Warboss, if you really must fight it.

Ideally, you'd tarpit it with a swath of boyz, and wipe the floor with the rest of the panzees.

MANZ, though, are just downright unfair if they hit Wraithlords. Toss a few in a Battlewagon. You won't be disappointed.

Nocturnus wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

Wraithlords had 3 wounds, no invul. were slow and had 1 or 2 fearsome not so fearsome guns.

And 2 attacks in melee.

Riptide has 3, WK will most likely have more at STR 10

Wraithlords are S10 are they not?

Yes, but only 2 attacks and have no invul and 3 wounds.
Not to mention now they can get wounds healed and fortune with an invul.

 lordofthegophers wrote:
Tau Sniper Drone Teams with an Ethereal will absolutely rape a Wraith-heavy army within 24".

On average rolls, within 24", a Sniper Drone Team with an Ethereal will kill a Wraithknight in one turn of shooting.

This could be very problematic with the Wraithknight's Lance weapons having 24" range...

How many competitive lists have you seen that max out on Sniper Drones when most people take a full unit of Broadsides and Hammerheads?

If anything, Kroot are the ones to worry about. 7pts for a Sniper with BS3 that can be affected by Markerlights.
Combined with a huge squad size... they will hurt far worse.

I thought it only had a 5+ invulnerable save. If they gave it a 3+ invulnerable that would be excessive. Also by the same token, fortune only works if you get it off. I think that it's a really cool model. I just don't see it being around for the duration of the game.

You may have an option for the 3++, but I don't know. I know that was a rumor, and so is the 5++ from the fellow in Germany, I think; I'd assume 5++, especially if they gave it to the Riptide. But...the Riptide can also boost it to a 3++. Maybe Kelly thought a WK could have access to it, but costs a pretty penny?

The problem is that not all firepower will be directed at it. You'll have other urgent targets to shoot at and all. Plus, we don't know what other buffing the Psychic Powers of Eldar do either, so that will make a big difference. Maybe it can get a 3++ from that? Hard to tell. I enjoy speculation, but it also makes it harder to wait...

Most MCs never last. The only one I've seen that does is the GuO and the LoC. I like the model too, and will certainly be using it. I have a feeling it will have a place, and this is without knowing abilities, etc.

I hope I'm right, but even the little leaks so far seem to indicate toward considerably strong survivability potential. We'll see.

A unit of Grey Knights terminators could be funny as well. All you need is a wound and a passed psychic test.... /dead Wraithknight.

Provided they can weather through 6 S6 AP2 blasts, given if that is true from the Suncannon.

I wouldn't think people would let the WK be assaulted that easy. GKs have problems making it across the board anyway from my experience too.

Not to say it won't happen, but...not as often as one would like to think.

 Kirasu wrote:
I seriously don't understand what the problem is with T8.. It seems to be always related to "my S3/4 guys can't hurt a wraithlord so it must be OP". Toughness 8 in armor value is ONLY AV11/12 so it is no tougher than a dreadnought. Do you charge boyz at dreadnoughts knowing only the nob can damage it?

I bet you do..because the nob has power claw striking at S8/9 so it may TAKE a few rounds but its no different than hurting a walker (granted walkers suck in 6th anyway, but thats not the MC's fault). Main difference is people think they should be able to damage everything with a toughness value with any unit in their army.

Not really that close of a comparison. You wouldn't have to charge the Dreadnought with boyz because you would probably kill it with Lootas. Any one unsaved hit could possibly blow the thing up, and it only has 3 HP, where you would need several more unsaved wounds on a T8 MC. And the WK probably has a better save than the cover the walker may get.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
don't play eldar

I don't have a choice if I go to tournaments.

Seems it is just our turn for this. Orks have an older codex. Thankfully not as old as the DE one was before theirs got updated. It can still beat some armies, but then again those ones probably lose alot at tournaments also. Our best solution to everything is just Ghazghkull. He would probably tear the WK a new one, but he would probably never get close.

I have come to think that Nobz and Ghaz should not even charge accross the board. Keep the squad somewhat small to save points and hold them back to counter charge. Then take a really shooty army may be the best bet. Maybe put Ghaz with the Lootas to give leadership and 2+. Then use Dakka Jets and outflanking Deffkoptas to try and get at the stuff that hides from the lootas.

Keeping Ghaz back is to keep him there to defend the stuff that the WK would try to go after.

CleverAntics wrote:
Provided they can weather through 6 S6 AP2 blasts, given if that is true from the Suncannon.

I wouldn't think people would let the WK be assaulted that easy. GKs have problems making it across the board anyway from my experience too.

Not to say it won't happen, but...not as often as one would like to think.

Land Raider Crusader says "What?" All joking aside. I agree getting into cc will be the trick. I wonder if they will give it some rule to avoid tarpits.

Land Raider Crusader says "What?" All joking aside. I agree getting into cc will be the trick. I wonder if they will give it some rule to avoid tarpits.

Lol. I sympathize with the poor LRC. Too many times have I one-shotted it with Meltaguns or a MC from Daemons. I haven't seen a Land Raider variant in ages after a little while watching them blow up in Turn 1 after 6th came out.

I'm more curious about the 4 weapons you can mount on it. It can only shoot 2 as a MC. Makes me wonder if the Shoulder/arm mounts guns as a pair count as 1 weapon, but aren't Twin-Linked? It's why I thought maybe it was a Walker so it shoot all of them.

It's either a Jump/Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, apparently. I'd prefer the latter myself, and apparently there is also a Psychic Power (Quicken?) that boosts a squads speed, which apparently got Wraithblades into combat quickish.

I have heard the idea floated that perhaps the spirit of the pilot's dead twin fires some of the guns, via a special rule.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
don't play eldar

I don't have a choice if I go to tournaments.

I laughed meniacly at this I am sorry. Maybe I will table you the next time with the WK

Unless it has been said - which I doubt as I've been following this thread religiously - apparently someone squinting at the Wraithguard entry says he can't spot the Wraithsight special rule, so it may be gone.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:


Yes, but only 2 attacks and have no invul and 3 wounds.
Not to mention now they can get wounds healed and fortune with an invul.

Pretty much it has ISND, just at a psychic power level and MUCH more efficient. Meaning my Avatar can only die from 4 unsaved throws at once now....MUAHAHAHAHHAHAAH

I am really excited to see what changes they've made to the Avatar. Of course it means I will have to order a Forgeworld one. I think my GF is going to murder me.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Two Wraithlords also have 6 wounds, Toughness 8, and a 3+ armor save.

In the games I have seen at least two Wraithlords on the table, two wraithlords were dead by the end of turn one 100% of the time. Every single game.

T8 and 3+ isn't tough, not even with 6 wounds. It's fool's gold, and anyone who uses it deserves what they get.

That's odd because my regular Eldar opponent fields 1-2 WL regularly, and they almost always survive until the end of the game. T8/3+ is far more survivable than you are letting on, especially when combined with a blob of T6 WG. Granted, he tends to hug cover and use Fortune, but then, what Eldar army doesn't do this. While Dark Eldar may be able to deal with T8/3+ easily, most armies can't.

I personally am NOT looking forward to facing the Wraith army. T6/3+ Fearless as scoring units with extremely potent guns or power weapons, backed up by multiple T8/3+ with 3-6 wounds and brimming with high strength, Lance, AP1-2 weaponry. Throw in some cheap, fast vypers and jetbikes for extra firepower and manueverability, and you have the makings of a very tough army. And for low armour, horde armies, just switch over to Scatter Lasers on everything.

Nocturnus wrote:
I am really excited to see what changes they've made to the Avatar. Of course it means I will have to order a Forgeworld one. I think my GF is going to murder me.

I think I'm going to have to build the FW Avatar I've had sitting around for years. Then, I get to decide at the beginning of the game which of the three sizes I want to field.

shade1313 wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
I am really excited to see what changes they've made to the Avatar. Of course it means I will have to order a Forgeworld one. I think my GF is going to murder me.

I think I'm going to have to build the FW Avatar I've had sitting around for years. Then, I get to decide at the beginning of the game which of the three sizes I want to field.

LOL! Well played sir!

I still can't get over the size of the Wraith Knight. It just doesn't seem 40k Scale to me.

I wonder if it will have Hit and Run, to avoid getting tied up in melee.

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

WLs can be a problem for any army to deal with, but given their limited armament, they are easily ignored for the most part. Sure, they'll get a few shots off, but the twin linked limitation prevented warwalker-like scatterlaser spam, and thus horde armies could largely work around them.

The same CAN'T be said for the WK. Multiple high strength, low AP blast templates in addition to the more traditional Eldar heavy weapons make it harder to ignore for everybody.

I'm not going to lie. As a necron player, if the Wraithlord gets to keep T8, I'm going to be at least a tad bit disgruntled.

 Sasori wrote:
I still can't get over the size of the Wraith Knight. It just doesn't seem 40k Scale to me.

I wonder if it will have Hit and Run, to avoid getting tied up in melee.

I keep seeing people post with absolute certainty that the WK has jump/jet packs, but where is everybody getting this from? Surely not from the model itself. Is there something in the battle report that indicates it has jet packs? Seems kind of absurd that a model as huge as the WK also has jet packs, especially given that none of the smaller wraith units have them.

How much of that has been confirmed? How do we know taking two weapons isn't still twin-linking? How do we know Wraithsight isn't even worse than before?

At least in the usual codex rumor threads it's people playing that army complaining about being weak (before they know enough). This time we've already decided one 250 point model is going to destroy every other army.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Seems kind of absurd that a model as huge as the WK also has jet packs, especially given that none of the smaller wraith units have them.

Wraithguard/lords not having them doesn’t really set a precedent for the Wraithknight, especially when its larger cousin (the Revenant) has large booster jets on its shoulders that it zips around on.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I still can't get over the size of the Wraith Knight. It just doesn't seem 40k Scale to me.

I wonder if it will have Hit and Run, to avoid getting tied up in melee.

I keep seeing people post with absolute certainty that the WK has jump/jet packs, but where is everybody getting this from? Surely not from the model itself. Is there something in the battle report that indicates it has jet packs? Seems kind of absurd that a model as huge as the WK also has jet packs, especially given that none of the smaller wraith units have them.

It was posted on a release sheet to retailers.

 King Pariah wrote:
I'm not going to lie. As a necron player, if the Wraithlord gets to keep T8, I'm going to be at least a tad bit disgruntled.

Oh yes that will be such a terrible fate in the army that can spam S7 like no tomorrow.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
I'm not going to lie. As a necron player, if the Wraithlord gets to keep T8, I'm going to be at least a tad bit disgruntled.

Oh yes that will be such a terrible fate in the army that can spam S7 like no tomorrow.

Not what I meant at all. When I started playing 40k, there were two units that had S10 T8, My beloved Nightbringer, and the Wraithlord. So when the newcron codex came out, i was a little annoyed that C'tan lost that T8 but understanding that Ward's fanwank fluff made it so. Simply put, still a tad butthurt and as I said, will be at least a tad bit disgruntled if the Wraithlord gets to keep it's T8.

I can't even tell you how happy I am about plastic Wraithguard/blades

 Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
I can't even tell you how happy I am about plastic Wraithguard/blades

Agreed. Iyandan was going to be my first army back in 3rd but I couldn't afford an all metal army. It will be nice to finally build it now.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
I can't even tell you how happy I am about plastic Wraithguard/blades

Agreed. Iyandan was going to be my first army back in 3rd but I couldn't afford an all mrtal army. It will be nice to finally build it now.

I already have a Siam-hann army but I've had a DIY Craftworld that I created years ago and I'm finally going to make just because these models exist!

No new plastic aspect warriors makes me sad panda. ;(

shade1313 wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
I am really excited to see what changes they've made to the Avatar. Of course it means I will have to order a Forgeworld one. I think my GF is going to murder me.

I think I'm going to have to build the FW Avatar I've had sitting around for years. Then, I get to decide at the beginning of the game which of the three sizes I want to field.

I have been trying to keep up with all the news but with all the Static I missed that the Avatar is changing.

What are the changes? (and yes I did check the first page )

Mime wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
I am really excited to see what changes they've made to the Avatar. Of course it means I will have to order a Forgeworld one. I think my GF is going to murder me.

I think I'm going to have to build the FW Avatar I've had sitting around for years. Then, I get to decide at the beginning of the game which of the three sizes I want to field.

I have been trying to keep up with all the news but with all the Static I missed that the Avatar is changing.

What are the changes? (and yes I did check the first page )

No one still knows if there's going to be any kind of new Avatar model. The third size I referred to is the OLD Avatar, on 25mm base, about the height of the current WG minis.

I try not to judge people but there's a few orc players on here that are plain whining. I told my 12 year old girl about the eldar and she sinply said "ill beat them". I mean damn guys adapt and overcome. I've had every army at one time or another and I've never just assumed I couldn't beat another army. Their is always a way. Stop looking at what you can't do and start looking at what you can do.

Mime wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
I am really excited to see what changes they've made to the Avatar. Of course it means I will have to order a Forgeworld one. I think my GF is going to murder me.

I think I'm going to have to build the FW Avatar I've had sitting around for years. Then, I get to decide at the beginning of the game which of the three sizes I want to field.

I have been trying to keep up with all the news but with all the Static I missed that the Avatar is changing.

What are the changes? (and yes I did check the first page )

The only change that has been confirmed is that the Avatar has Fleet now, as it is mentioned in the battle report in the White Dwarf (and with Fortune on him he chops his way through a C'tan, so he is obviously still pretty solid in assault). Its still the same model.

yellowfever wrote:
I try not to judge people but there's a few orc players on here that are plain whining. I told my 12 year old girl about the eldar and she sinply said "ill beat them". I mean damn guys adapt and overcome. I've had every army at one time or another and I've never just assumed I couldn't beat another army. Their is always a way. Stop looking at what you can't do and start looking at what you can do.

This.

We'll find a way to fong it

I usually run three wraithlords in my Iyanden-style list and rarely see all three live through a game. With a wraithseer granting 4+ FNP, they tend to stick around a little longer, but I usually have them hug cover if the seer's attending the wraithguard. T8/3+ may sound formidable on paper, but all it takes is three bad cover saves against AP1-3 shots and they're out. Low AP weapons usually have higher strength, so your any melta, plasma, missile launcher, or lascannon equivalent are going to get the job done.

Those might be rare in some armies, but common enough in my meta that I lose at least one lord in most my games.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Two Wraithlords also have 6 wounds, Toughness 8, and a 3+ armor save.

In the games I have seen at least two Wraithlords on the table, two wraithlords were dead by the end of turn one 100% of the time. Every single game.

T8 and 3+ isn't tough, not even with 6 wounds. It's fool's gold, and anyone who uses it deserves what they get.

That's odd because my regular Eldar opponent fields 1-2 WL regularly, and they almost always survive until the end of the game. T8/3+ is far more survivable than you are letting on,

Around here, armies tend to have 12-15 lascannons, most twin-linked, at 1500 points. Is that not common for you?

That amount of LC seems odd in my experience in the current meta. lots of everything in the way of heavy weapons but aside from "eleventybillionvendettas" guard lists, that amount would be very rare. Even with guard, lots more 3xAC and ML/plasma gun units around; marines take a lot of different stuff but really surprisingly little lascannons.
Really though, what kind of list has 12-15 LC, most twin linked at 1500? that would be a LC razorspam list, a vendetta list or something really weird. not all that much that can throw that amount of twinlinked lascannons around - one per dread doesn't really add up all that much either (and in any case I usually see those taking either twin AC or single assault cannon too...)

 Bolognesus wrote:

Really though, what kind of list has 12-15 LC, most twin linked at 1500?

Anything with Dark Angel or Space Wolf battle brothers.

I'm deffinatelly tempted to paint more Eldar now as I think my DIY theme will bee good for a Wraithguard army. As for play, I'm not competitive so I just play for the fun. Win or loose.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Anything with Dark Angel or Space Wolf battle brothers.

Perhaps in your area, but point of fact is that that isn't widespread. I NEVER see Lascannons around here unless someone decides to bring a Land Raider or the like, which is rare. The Meta seems to favor Plasma Spam/MLs and ACs. Plus, a lot of people tend to tool lists in local games anyway. Anyone at a Tournament won't spam that many LCs, at least from what I know.

To assume there are that many LCs out there is a pretty good stretch of a claim in that many lists. Especially now that everyone knows it is an Infantry Edition rather than tanks, tanks and more tanks.

Not to mention we don't know that much about the WK other than a few stats. A rumor was that it could UPGRADE from a 5++ to a 3++; even then, you can get a 4++ from Divination. If that is true, those LCs aren't that scary. Especially with Fortune and god only knows what else in the Psychic Powers we haven't seen yet.

Lastly, there is already talk of the tournament Eldar lists including 3x of them because it'd be 18 T8 wounds, which is horrendous. They think that because 12- 15 LCs at 1500 pts isn't that common, or else they'd laugh it away. It's merely local and something you experience. No one else has chimed in with it.

Just stating the majority facts, as far as I know. No offense intended, just it's your experience as it were.

As a Space Wolf player, I wouldn't be too overly worried about T8 Wraithlords. Though I myself am not the biggest fan of LF, I usually pack at least 4 missiles and a LL.

Is anyone else worried about the sheer size of that thing?! forget about T8 W6, how can you even take a cover save from that thing.....Wraith Knights.....gak like that should stick to apoc games

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Seems kind of absurd that a model as huge as the WK also has jet packs, especially given that none of the smaller wraith units have them.

Wraithguard/lords not having them doesn’t really set a precedent for the Wraithknight, especially when its larger cousin (the Revenant) has large booster jets on its shoulders that it zips around on.

Its also possible that it simply moves as jump infantry to represent the fact it has absolutely massive legs (ala super heavy walkers that can move 12" per turn)

 King Pariah wrote:
I'm not going to lie. As a necron player, if the Wraithlord gets to keep T8, I'm going to be at least a tad bit disgruntled.

Why? death marks counter the WL VERY well... Wounding it on 2+ with rapid fire kills it first time nearly every time.

He already explained why...

King Pariah wrote:Not what I meant at all. When I started playing 40k, there were two units that had S10 T8, My beloved Nightbringer, and the Wraithlord. So when the newcron codex came out, i was a little annoyed that C'tan lost that T8 but understanding that Ward's fanwank fluff made it so. Simply put, still a tad butthurt and as I said, will be at least a tad bit disgruntled if the Wraithlord gets to keep it's T8.

Jacob29 wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
I'm not going to lie. As a necron player, if the Wraithlord gets to keep T8, I'm going to be at least a tad bit disgruntled.

Why? death marks counter the WL VERY well... Wounding it on 2+ with rapid fire kills it first time nearly every time.

Do the math. I don't think so. This model has 6 wounds and a 3+ armour save.

yellowfever wrote:
I try not to judge people but there's a few orc players on here that are plain whining. I told my 12 year old girl about the eldar and she sinply said "ill beat them". I mean damn guys adapt and overcome. I've had every army at one time or another and I've never just assumed I couldn't beat another army. Their is always a way. Stop looking at what you can't do and start looking at what you can do.

It's not just Ork players.
A lot of people are moaning at how ott Eldar are.
They've always been like this imo.
I've taken over 200 losses against them in over 2 decades of gaming. Not a single victory. Have I moaned? Not once. Just go back and try again.

I for one am selling off my armies and joining our new Space Elf rulers.

I've said for years I'll play Eldar if they get plastic WG and a new dex. Finally... its here.

I like the new models. Wraithguard / Wraithblade, Hemlock/ Nightshade flyer, Ilic Nightspear - looks very good.
The Spirit seer, Wraithknight and new farseer is ok. The new rules seems interesting - new psychic powers (I love to have warlocks that have stronger powers then before. I hardly saw them as psychers. I would love to see the Shadowseer with some kind of additional power). Shuriken catapults and dire avenger getting better.
And I'm very exited to see what will happened with the aspect warriors - dark reapers, howling banshees will they worth taking again?
I love that the Hemlock has a Spiritseer as a pilot - maybe he also will be abel to take different psychic powers?

There has been many rumors that didn't came true and I think it was to much stuff to be believable.
New avatar sculpt, new Swooping hawks and warpspiders in plastic, new jetbikes/shining spears, skychariot with some special character, black warden, exodite dragon riders, corsair eldritch raiders, new special characters and exarchs... and some people wished for the old Solitaire.

The biggest disappointment - no new Jetbikes.
They look too old especially the riders. The Hawks and Spiders is also in need of new models. Hawk wings too small and Spiders kind of clumsy.

But I hope they will resculpt them someday - for now I will be happy with al the nice thing this Codex bring.

 Spartan089 wrote:
Is anyone else worried about the sheer size of that thing?! forget about T8 W6, how can you even take a cover save from that thing.....Wraith Knights.....gak like that should stick to apoc games

Place a small amount of its base in area terrain.

Mind = Blown.

Oh I see! You mean how can anything get a cover save from IT.

Well, KFF... Aegis defence line... Vehicles.... Buildings. Luckily you draw line of sight from the models eyes and Wraithknights don't have eyes.

So it can't shoot at anything anyway.

You're going to get punched if you argue that though!

Matt.Kingsley wrote:He already explained why...

King Pariah wrote:Not what I meant at all. When I started playing 40k, there were two units that had S10 T8, My beloved Nightbringer, and the Wraithlord. So when the newcron codex came out, i was a little annoyed that C'tan lost that T8 but understanding that Ward's fanwank fluff made it so. Simply put, still a tad butthurt and as I said, will be at least a tad bit disgruntled if the Wraithlord gets to keep it's T8.

Yes yes I didn't notice. Everyone picks at everything around here...

wuestenfux wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
I'm not going to lie. As a necron player, if the Wraithlord gets to keep T8, I'm going to be at least a tad bit disgruntled.

Why? death marks counter the WL VERY well... Wounding it on 2+ with rapid fire kills it first time nearly every time.

Do the math. I don't think so. This model has 6 wounds and a 3+ armour save.

I said wraithLORD.

But even with the knight I'm pretty sure deathmarks will hurt a knight a lot.

Well if the limited edition is only a pretty looking sleeve that is fine. Just saved me £10-£15 I can put towards Illic, the Spirit Seer or psychic power cards instead!!

If I were an Ork player, I would turn the Wraithknight into a Squig!

Imagine the trololololololol moment!

Iranna.

str10 t8 makes all my tyranid MC's sad little panda's

 Robbietobbie wrote:
str10 t8 makes all my tyranid MC's sad little panda's

Poison + boneswords? Shouldn't that do the trick?

still think the knights going to be armoured and not toughness

reason I think this is when ever there is a pilot its usualy armoured warwakers, titans and since everything is made of wraith bone it can still be called a wraith knight and has the dead twin helping his brother inside ,

bit81 wrote:
still think the knights going to be armoured and not toughness

reason I think this is when ever there is a pilot its usualy armoured warwakers, titans and since everything is made of wraith bone it can still be called a wraith knight and has the dead twin helping his brother inside ,

It says it has wounds in the White Dwarf battle report...

Iranna.

I couldn't see it being a walker (even without the WD confirmation) as it is essentially a giant Wraithlord and they have been toughness and wounds since they stopped being Dreadnoughts.

 Iranna wrote:

bit81 wrote:
still think the knights going to be armoured and not toughness

reason I think this is when ever there is a pilot its usualy armoured warwakers, titans and since everything is made of wraith bone it can still be called a wraith knight and has the dead twin helping his brother inside ,

It says it has wounds in the White Dwarf battle report...

Iranna.

Its a walker with jump pack. Fast and deadly.

bit81 wrote:
still think the knights going to be armoured and not toughness

reason I think this is when ever there is a pilot its usualy armoured warwakers, titans and since everything is made of wraith bone it can still be called a wraith knight and has the dead twin helping his brother inside ,

If it was a vehicle it will be the worst unit in the game. Wayyyy too easy to die. The feel of losing a 9" model to one melta or las cannon would greatly outweigh the other players joy.

not read the white dwarf battle report didnt think it was out yet

and armour woulnt make it easy to kill give it its super heeavy stats lets face it a knight would have a nice 2-3 structure points( 6-9 hullpoints)

so whats its toughness then got to be 8+ with at least 6-8 wounds and prob a 300-380pts prics tag

bit81 wrote:
not read the white dwarf battle report didnt think it was out yet

and armour woulnt make it easy to kill give it its super heeavy stats lets face it a knight would have a nice 2-3 structure points( 6-9 hullpoints)

so whats its toughness then got to be 8+ with at least 6-8 wounds and prob a 300-380pts prics tag

Here you go:

Wraithknight (heavy support 240 points)
-Strong Profile (s10 T8 W6 AS 3+, Jumppack
- 2 heavy phantom lasers (23" S10 AP 2 instant death on wound rolls of 6)
- alternative equipment possible - for example close combat weapons with a 5+ invul and blind special rule or a S6 5" Blast with ap 2. with 5+ invul and blind special rule.

is it just me, or does the Wraithknight sound like a better Riptide?

its main gun sounds crap expect alot better range which doesnt bode well for the rest of the rest of the eldar codex but will wait and see

bit81 wrote:
its main gun sounds crap expect alot better range which doesnt bode well for the rest of the rest of the eldar codex but will wait and see

If he could move 12'', the range would be quite sufficient.

Im glad GW realise vehicles (non flyers, that is) are not playable in 6th edition and name the walkers MC.
I almost dont want to think about what a crafty seer could do to boost such a monstrosity, both in survivability and deathdealing. Remember, the elves are all about working together

I have a feeling though, that when the knight vertigo has setteled after a couple of games, you will find the flyers are the superior investment. People will find ways to kill the knight that dont cost them the 300p you pay for it.

It appears that GW will leave most of the existing units untouched promoting WG and advertising new flyers and a walker MC. Poor GW.

People keep saying that Lascannons are a good counter to the monstrosity that is the Wraithknight, but has anyone actually done the maths on this yet? [this all assumes ~250 points for the Wraithknight, 6 Wounds at T8, with a 5++]

Revenant Titan - will take around 21 lascannon hits to destroy, on average, although in reality it will take fewer hits because of the vehicle damage table. This is the equivalent of around 8 CSM Havoc Squads, so about 1200 points, the cost of the Titan.

Wraithknight - will take around 14 lascannon hits to destroy. This is the equivalent of 5 Havoc Squads, so about 800 points, triple the cost of the Wraithknight.

Then we compare the cost of the two constructs. THREE Wraithknights are cheaper (points-wise) than ONE Revenant. Together, those three, which are now perfectly legal in a 40K army, will take 42 Lascannon hits to destroy, or 15 Havoc Squads (2400 points), or 5 Havoc Squads (using double FOC, but only at 2000+pts) over three turns.

Tl,dr: You need to gear your entire army to killing this in almost any game, or focus on the rest of his army and take the objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
People keep saying that Lascannons are a good counter to the monstrosity that is the Wraithknight, but has anyone actually done the maths on this yet? [this all assumes ~250 points for the Wraithknight, 6 Wounds at T8, with a 5++]

Revenant Titan - will take around 21 lascannon hits to destroy, on average, although in reality it will take fewer hits because of the vehicle damage table. This is the equivalent of around 8 CSM Havoc Squads, so about 1200 points, the cost of the Titan.

Wraithknight - will take around 14 lascannon hits to destroy. This is the equivalent of 5 Havoc Squads, so about 800 points, triple the cost of the Wraithknight.

Then we compare the cost of the two constructs. THREE Wraithknights are cheaper (points-wise) than ONE Revenant. Together, those three, which are now perfectly legal in a 40K army, will take 42 Lascannon hits to destroy, or 15 Havoc Squads (2400 points), or 5 Havoc Squads (using double FOC, but only at 2000+pts) over three turns.

Tl,dr: You need to gear your entire army to killing this in almost any game, or focus on the rest of his army and take the objectives.

oh boy oh boy so still excited about this release.

Even a 3+ save on WK won't burst my bubble.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
oh boy oh boy so still excited about this release.

Even a 3+ save on WK won't burst my bubble.

Your bubble will burst when you will field a point-wise expensive Iyanden army with a WK.

Shhh, let me have my bliss.

Anyone notice that D-Cannons / Wraithcannons / Warp Hunters seem to be excellent counters to the Wraithknight?

They're all AP2, wound on a 2+, and cause instant death on a 6 to wound. Warp Hunters even have a Torrent template mode that ignores cover.

Still need to get around the invul, but there's lots of AP2 instant death you could take.

Honestly, I can't see the WK being tougher than a GUO... then again Eldar are Phil's babies so I suppose it is probable...

 Spartan089 wrote:
Is anyone else worried about the sheer size of that thing?! forget about T8 W6, how can you even take a cover save from that thing.....Wraith Knights.....gak like that should stick to apoc games

I'm definitely worried about the size... transporting it is going to suck! That monster's going to take up half a KR card case, so in total a quarter of my carrying capability. Flyers are going to be space-hogs too, although if the Fire Prism and Wave Serpent aren't really useable anymore I'll have plenty of space left from where those were...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Honestly, I can't see the WK being tougher than a GUO... then again Eldar are Phil's babies so I suppose it is probable...

Well, then, to follow the eldar trend the WK ought to die at first krackmissile hit. "If they hit you, you are toast" -ancient eldar saying.

Apocalypse game, 10+ Wraith Knights, all I am gonna say.

 wuestenfux wrote:

bit81 wrote:
not read the white dwarf battle report didnt think it was out yet

and armour woulnt make it easy to kill give it its super heeavy stats lets face it a knight would have a nice 2-3 structure points( 6-9 hullpoints)

so whats its toughness then got to be 8+ with at least 6-8 wounds and prob a 300-380pts prics tag

Here you go:

Wraithknight (heavy support 240 points)
-Strong Profile (s10 T8 W6 AS 3+, Jumppack
- 2 heavy phantom lasers (23" S10 AP 2 instant death on wound rolls of 6)
- alternative equipment possible - for example close combat weapons with a 5+ invul and blind special rule or a S6 5" Blast with ap 2. with 5+ invul and blind special rule.

Where did you get that info from? Since I know for a fact that the Suncannons (one of the two big primary weapon options it can take) are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast, which makes the rest of that info somewhat unreliable.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:

 Spartan089 wrote:
Is anyone else worried about the sheer size of that thing?! forget about T8 W6, how can you even take a cover save from that thing.....Wraith Knights.....gak like that should stick to apoc games

I'm definitely worried about the size... transporting it is going to suck! That monster's going to take up half a KR card case, so in total a quarter of my carrying capability. Flyers are going to be space-hogs too, although if the Fire Prism and Wave Serpent aren't really useable anymore I'll have plenty of space left from where those were...

This is the main thing putting me off from buying one of the wraithknights, actually getting the thing to a game (most of my gaming is done away from home).

The other thing putting me off is obviously the cost in £££ of it.....

Oh, and what is this nerf of fire prisms and wave serpents we are talking about? Does anyone have any details?

I hope this is not the case, they aren't exactly overpowered right now are they?

Powerguy wrote:


Where did you get that info from? Since I know for a fact that the Suncannons (one of the two big primary weapon options it can take) are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast, which makes the rest of that info somewhat unreliable.

I'm surprised you know that for a fact, given the codex isn't even up for pre-order yet.

Iranna.

Powerguy wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

bit81 wrote:
not read the white dwarf battle report didnt think it was out yet

and armour woulnt make it easy to kill give it its super heeavy stats lets face it a knight would have a nice 2-3 structure points( 6-9 hullpoints)

so whats its toughness then got to be 8+ with at least 6-8 wounds and prob a 300-380pts prics tag

Here you go:

Wraithknight (heavy support 240 points)
-Strong Profile (s10 T8 W6 AS 3+, Jumppack
- 2 heavy phantom lasers (23" S10 AP 2 instant death on wound rolls of 6)
- alternative equipment possible - for example close combat weapons with a 5+ invul and blind special rule or a S6 5" Blast with ap 2. with 5+ invul and blind special rule.

Where did you get that info from? Since I know for a fact that the Suncannons (one of the two big primary weapon options it can take) are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast, which makes the rest of that info somewhat unreliable.

Go a few pages down...

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Apocalypse game, 10+ Wraith Knights, all I am gonna say.

GW approves of this message.

So the Wraith Knight is T8, but not immune to poison?

I probably ought to convert another squad of Sternguard...

 Fezman wrote:
So the Wraith Knight is T8, but not immune to poison?

I probably ought to convert another squad of Sternguard...

Well, DE will have a field day to take such a monstrosity down in a single round of shooting. It works against a Dreadknight, so why not versus a WR?
Sternguard with meltas or plasma guns? The latter should be more effective even if they wound on 5+.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Fezman wrote:
So the Wraith Knight is T8, but not immune to poison?

I probably ought to convert another squad of Sternguard...

Well, DE will have a field day to take such a monstrosity down in a single round of shooting. It works against a Dreadknight, so why not versus a WR?
Sternguard with meltas or plasma guns? The latter should be more effective even if they wound on 5+.

Tyranids are going to have fun getting models with Implant Attacks into combat with it. 6 to wound? AP2 Instant Death. Better pass that Invulnerable save!

My friends Wraithlord went down to a Broodlord like this. He didn't find it as funny as I did.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Fezman wrote:
So the Wraith Knight is T8, but not immune to poison?

I probably ought to convert another squad of Sternguard...

Well, DE will have a field day to take such a monstrosity down in a single round of shooting. It works against a Dreadknight, so why not versus a WR?
Sternguard with meltas or plasma guns? The latter should be more effective even if they wound on 5+.

As I said before:
60 Splinter Shots To reliably down a Wraithknight. (10 Splinter Cannons, or 5 Venoms)
or, 18 Dark Lance shots (18 Lances / Blasters, or 6 Ravagers / Blasterborn), or with a 5+ invun save, 27 Dark Lances (9 Ravagers)

If it's Fortuned it'll take 160 shots with Splinter Weapons to kill it. (or 14 Venoms.)

It's still going to take a fairly large amount of fire to down it - leaving the rest of the army to do as it pleases.

As a lazy man, I for one welcome the addition of these insanely large/insanely costly new 40k units.

http://voidhunters.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/building-eldar-bright-stallion.html

Now to build one of those going to town on a rhino/greater daemon/dreadnought, if you know what I mean...

 Fezman wrote:
So the Wraith Knight is T8, but not immune to poison?

I probably ought to convert another squad of Sternguard...

Why would it be immune to poison due to T8? Also seeing as it has a 5++, does it really need to sit in cover? I have to say that a 9" model should not be able to claim cover from hiding behind a couple of trees...

Whereas I can see the WK being a pain, has it got such a high dmg output to make it a priority target?

I don't think so.

Nocturnus wrote:


Why would it be immune to poison due to T8? Also seeing as it has a 5++, does it really need to sit in cover? I have to say that a 9" model should not be able to claim cover from hiding behind a couple of trees...

That was a supposed rumour and/or wishlisting that wraith units would be immune to poison.

Well if it were behind a Bastion, for example, it could get a 3+ cover save. Or if it were night fighting, a tall ruin could give it a 2+ cover save.

Iranna.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Puscifer wrote:
Whereas I can see the WK being a pain, has it got such a high dmg output to make it a priority target?

I don't think so.

A potential 6 S6 AP2 small blasts would make me think otherwise...

Iranna.

6 S6 AP2 Blasts? And shoulder mounted weaponry? Yeah, that should worry you if you don't have a reliable way to kill it quickly.

 Iranna wrote:

Powerguy wrote:


Where did you get that info from? Since I know for a fact that the Suncannons (one of the two big primary weapon options it can take) are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast, which makes the rest of that info somewhat unreliable.

I'm surprised you know that for a fact, given the codex isn't even up for pre-order yet.

Iranna.

True, but I have seen that White Dwarf, and those stats are one of the few things that is pretty easy to make out. Go find my earlier post in this thread.

 Enigma wrote:

 Robbietobbie wrote:
str10 t8 makes all my tyranid MC's sad little panda's

Poison + boneswords? Shouldn't that do the trick?

Not saying there aren't any counters to a t8 MC, just saying it makes the str and t of the average tyranid MC even more annoyingly low

 Robbietobbie wrote:

 Enigma wrote:

 Robbietobbie wrote:
str10 t8 makes all my tyranid MC's sad little panda's

Poison + boneswords? Shouldn't that do the trick?

Not saying there aren't any counters to a t8 MC, just saying it makes the str and t of the average tyranid MC even more annoyingly low

T5 Daemon Prince sheds a single tear.

Riptide is harder to kill on average that the WK with its built in 5+ invul (upgradeable to 3+). The WK can have a 5+ invul but has to sacrifice one of its main guns to do so. In an environment where missiles/poison weapons and tesla are so common, the 2+ save means so much more than the T8 and extra wound.

@Ovion, 5 Venoms to take down a WK, they cost less than the WK will (most likely) so it seems you have plenty of points left in your army to deal with the rest of the eldar army. If the WK is fortuned it gets more difficult, true, but also now the Eldar player is putting more points of his army into the WK.

I am not saying the WK is good or bad, I just think people are over reacting to the rumors. At its size, everything on the table is going to be able to see/shoot at it, at least the Riptide is smaller and able to actually get out of sight behind buildings or forests.

 Robbietobbie wrote:

 Enigma wrote:

 Robbietobbie wrote:
str10 t8 makes all my tyranid MC's sad little panda's

Poison + boneswords? Shouldn't that do the trick?

Not saying there aren't any counters to a t8 MC, just saying it makes the str and t of the average tyranid MC even more annoyingly low

Sure, I can agree on that. But even then. A WL can't feel pain, cant suffer from shock, blood loss and there's no muscles or tendons to tear. I feel that the T8 in justified... but that doesn't mean I think some of the nastier 'nids should have it as well.
And believe me, my current WLs do NOT like rending

Why does everyone seem to assume we are talking about only ONE Wraithknight? It could just be me, but I would definitely (If I were to play Eldar) take two even at 1500 points, for redundancy, and because I know that there would be little my opponent could do to them at that points level.

It probably is just me, I'll admit it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why does everyone seem to assume we are talking about only ONE Wraithknight? It could just be me, but I would definitely (If I were to play Eldar) take two even at 1500 points, for redundancy, and because I know that there would be little my opponent could do to them at that points level.

It probably is just me, I'll admit it, although price might be a mitigating factor.

10 hours or so until preorders go up! I like the rumored stats/rules for the fighter but I am really wondering about the bomber as it seems, from a fluff point of view, would fit better with my Ulthwe force.

The main advantage of the WK is that in fact it is a huge wraithlord. Until people get used to the fear factor it causes they will shoot the crap out of it and neglect the rest of the eldar army that will tear their army to shreds. Exactly the same thing that happened with wraithlords during 3rd and 4th edition.
Being mobile means that it will be much more annoying than a wraithlord or two. Remember eldar army is all about synergy, and not how strong single units are.

If the Wraith Knight only has a 3+ save....even a lowly GKSS with halberds could walk up and Force Weapon it in 1 hit...You can only pass so many 5++. Force Weapons + hammerand = Wound on 6 with upto 30 attacks on the charge. A DK would eat it...Well going on what we know so far anyway.

 Messy0 wrote:
If the Wraith Knight only has a 3+ save....even a lowly GKSS with halberds could walk up and Force Weapon it in 1 hit...You can only pass so many 5++. Force Weapons + hammerand = Wound on 6 with upto 30 attacks on the charge. A DK would eat it...Well going on what we know so far anyway.

How is a GKSS using both Hammerhand and Force Weapons?

Iranna.

Mixing libbys and grand masters or thawn in

 Iranna wrote:

 Messy0 wrote:
If the Wraith Knight only has a 3+ save....even a lowly GKSS with halberds could walk up and Force Weapon it in 1 hit...You can only pass so many 5++. Force Weapons + hammerand = Wound on 6 with upto 30 attacks on the charge. A DK would eat it...Well going on what we know so far anyway.

How is a GKSS using both Hammerhand and Force Weapons?

Iranna.

Banner (unless its only Terminators/Paladins that can take banners IIRC GKSS can too) or IC with the squad. Mix in a GM some Rad 'Nades or even worse Draigo and your sorted.

Regarding WYSIWYG do you think that assembling the eldar flyer as a bomber and magnetizing the weapons will allow me to use it either way I want?

It should work unless the random wings have an in-game effect.

Why does everyone seem to assume we are talking about only ONE Wraithknight? It could just be me, but I would definitely (If I were to play Eldar) take two even at 1500 points, for redundancy, and because I know that there would be little my opponent could do to them at that points level.

Two sounds great, but the price! Ouch.

It probably is just me, I'll admit it, although price might be a mitigating factor.

Yes, it certainly might be a factor that prevents some people from buying even one of these otherwise wonderful models. Still, I'm sure some people who can afford it will have more than one. Many Tau players are already fielding multiple Riptides in spite of the high price tag on that.

Frankly, I think the price on the Wraithknight is less disturbing (nasty though it is) than the roughly 88% price increase on the Dire Avengers. Since its first release the set has gone from $30 to $37.25, not too terrible, but effectively jumping to $70 for the same ten models all in one go will seem like highway robbery to anyone who knows they were $37.25 just days before.

I noticed yesterday that GW deliberately broke the link on their web store for ordering the current Dire Avengers at the $37.25 US price. And stores everywhere have already sold out of them since the news of the price increase hit the Internet.

I plan on buying at least one Wraithknight. The price as well as my already large hobby backlog will definitely factors in determining whether or not to buy two.

sturguard wrote:Riptide is harder to kill on average that the WK with its built in 5+ invul (upgradeable to 3+). The WK can have a 5+ invul but has to sacrifice one of its main guns to do so. In an environment where missiles/poison weapons and tesla are so common, the 2+ save means so much more than the T8 and extra wound.

@Ovion, 5 Venoms to take down a WK, they cost less than the WK will (most likely) so it seems you have plenty of points left in your army to deal with the rest of the eldar army. If the WK is fortuned it gets more difficult, true, but also now the Eldar player is putting more points of his army into the WK.

I am not saying the WK is good or bad, I just think people are over reacting to the rumors. At its size, everything on the table is going to be able to see/shoot at it, at least the Riptide is smaller and able to actually get out of sight behind buildings or forests.

5 Venoms is 325pts, so much the same I think.

-Shrike- wrote:Why does everyone seem to assume we are talking about only ONE Wraithknight? It could just be me, but I would definitely (If I were to play Eldar) take two even at 1500 points, for redundancy, and because I know that there would be little my opponent could do to them at that points level.

It probably is just me, I'll admit it.

You know that'll be almost half your points at 1500 right? xD
When I get round to my Eldar (in a year or 3 at this point) It'll prolly be 1 Wraithknight, and 2 Wraithlords, with 30 Wraithwarriors, with assorted support stuffs, and that's 2000pts I think.

The funniest part will be when a 35pt model with a Hex Rifle one-shots it

Ovion, that will prob be my army as well, I normally run eldrad harlequins, 2 wraith guard units and 2 wraith lords and fill in the test with GJB and fire dragons where points permit...

Ultimately, wraith knight can DS due to jump pack for its own alpha strike while eldar S6 goes to town on DE venoms or other dangerous units to the WRaithknight...

Eldar is generally a hard counter to DE with all the s6 available...

I think a lot of people are being distracted by the new shinys and not looking at the old dexs problems that needed attention.

Eldar are 3 things: Speed, Psychic powers, and specialized warriors. All things we are totally out classed and out pointed by imperial equivalents. One of the biggest problems currently is delivery of our fragile expensive troops, the wave serpent is too expensive for what it does, especially with the way tanks crumple like paper and cripple units inside from shooting.

What needs to happen is either a steep points drop (4pts for every aspect) or the addition of more rules that are built in (infiltrate on scorpions, tank hunter on dragons etc).

And now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

Currently we are meh at speed, meh at specialization and the potential for meh with psykers. This book has a lot of expectations to meet, I for one hope its not a missed opportunity.

now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

I am also not fond of randomization of things like psychic powers and other special abilities. I don't play that often and I don't "power" game, but when I do game I like to pick the things I think will be colorful fun and know what I'm getting. However, I can see one benefit to the 40K community as a whole from the power randomization, it prevents "cheese" or "power" gamers from building annoying never changing lists around ubiquitous abilities. Remember the people who abuse things like the old Chaos "Lash" power or the Space Wolves' "Jaws of the World Wolf"? I guess GW is trying to prevent that kind of over-use and abuse in pickup games and tournaments to keep the game as a whole more fun for everyone.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

I have no idea...

I'd throw my trukk boyz at 'em. Tie them up for most of the game...

That's how you play 'em.

Trukk boyz assault, WK goes first kills 2-3. Nob maybe does a wound. Orks loos combat by 1-2 and are no longer fearless. They hold, next turn 2-3 more die, loose combate not test on a 6-7 flee get run down.

Oh and it is a MC so making Fear checks or hit on 6's ( I think that is the fear rule)

Tieing up a Lord for 2+ turns? Then, them boyz did their jobs. But, in my case, my nob usually do kill the lord.

I don't see the issue.

o.O


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iranna wrote:
If I were an Ork player, I would turn the Wraithknight into a Squig!

Imagine the trololololololol moment!

Iranna.

Wraithknight an IC?

Only way Zoggy can "squigafy" a model if it's an IC.

 Enigma wrote:

 Robbietobbie wrote:
str10 t8 makes all my tyranid MC's sad little panda's

Poison + boneswords? Shouldn't that do the trick?

I think his point is that a S10 T8 W6 jumpack MC with 2 *real* guns for only 240pts is what makes Nid MC's sad. They all of a sudden feel even more overcosted and fragile.

 BrassScorpion wrote:

now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

I am also not fond of randomization of things like psychic powers and other special abilities. I don't play that often and I don't "power" game, but when I do game I like to pick the things I think will be colorful fun and know what I'm getting. However, I can see one benefit to the 40K community as a whole from the power randomization, it prevents "cheese" or "power" gamers from building annoying never changing lists around ubiquitous abilities. Remember the people who abuse things like the old Chaos "Lash" power or the Space Wolves' "Jaws of the World Wolf"? I guess GW is trying to prevent that kind of over-use and abuse in pickup games and tournaments to keep the game as a whole more fun for everyone.

Fun is what you make it, I like tournaments and I like bringing the best a list can offer, I think that is fun as hell, forcing me to randomize because GW doesn't like the idea of tournament fun is stupid. Why attempt to kill a large chunk of the player base? I'll just find the next most reliable and most effective thing no matter how "balanced" and "fun" they make it.

Oh boy would it be awesome if WK was an IC. 3 in a unit !

 Ravenous D wrote:

What needs to happen is either a steep points drop (4pts for every aspect) or the addition of more rules that are built in (infiltrate on scorpions, tank hunter on dragons etc).

And now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

Currently we are meh at speed, meh at specialization and the potential for meh with psykers. This book has a lot of expectations to meet, I for one hope its not a missed opportunity.

Seeing that one of the easiest things to read were some aspect special rules, you should be happy. SnP on Reapers and HnR on Spiders base point that this is the route they took.

The rumors indicate the Wraithknight starts at 250 points with no upgrades and goes up to 350. If eternal warrior or feel no pain isn't one of its upgrades then it will not be that hard to kill. There is so much rending, poison, and high str Ap2 in this game it isn't even funny.

Heck, even 20 Sniper Kroot cost less than half the cost of a naked Wraithknight and can drop one in 1 or 2 rounds of fire. And Tau can ally with a lot of armies.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 BrassScorpion wrote:

now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

I am also not fond of randomization of things like psychic powers and other special abilities. I don't play that often and I don't "power" game, but when I do game I like to pick the things I think will be colorful fun and know what I'm getting. However, I can see one benefit to the 40K community as a whole from the power randomization, it prevents "cheese" or "power" gamers from building annoying never changing lists around ubiquitous abilities. Remember the people who abuse things like the old Chaos "Lash" power or the Space Wolves' "Jaws of the World Wolf"? I guess GW is trying to prevent that kind of over-use and abuse in pickup games and tournaments to keep the game as a whole more fun for everyone.

Fun is what you make it, I like tournaments and I like bringing the best a list can offer, I think that is fun as hell, forcing me to randomize because GW doesn't like the idea of tournament fun is stupid. Why attempt to kill a large chunk of the player base? I'll just find the next most reliable and most effective thing no matter how "balanced" and "fun" they make it.

I play Daemons, so I've recently had to become used to a whole lot of randomization in my lists. At first I really didn't like it, but I've adjusted. The primaris powers can be fairly reliable and useful, and with enough rolls I generally get what I want. On the whole I'd prefer to just buy exactly what I need, but for my army the randomization can work pretty well.

So... anyone have any rumors about things that actually matter? I.E. the existing units that I actually do use and would use versus the new ones that I have absolutely zero interest in using?

Like point cost changes to things like existing aspects, pathfinders, artillery? New weapon profiles? Anything?

 whembly wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

I have no idea...

I'd throw my trukk boyz at 'em. Tie them up for most of the game...

That's how you play 'em.

Trukk boyz assault, WK goes first kills 2-3. Nob maybe does a wound. Orks loos combat by 1-2 and are no longer fearless. They hold, next turn 2-3 more die, loose combate not test on a 6-7 flee get run down.

Oh and it is a MC so making Fear checks or hit on 6's ( I think that is the fear rule)

Tieing up a Lord for 2+ turns? Then, them boyz did their jobs. But, in my case, my nob usually do kill the lord.

I don't see the issue.

o.O

How does your Nob kill them? Why doesn't the wraithlord challenge?

A wraithlord will kill a nob very easily before it gets to attack. Even with just 2 attacks without a sword (and HoW), you still have a 83% chance to kill the nob.

The nob, on the other hand, will do 1.3 wound on average, but it's not likely that he'll get to attack anyway.

NamelessBard wrote:


How does your Nob kill them? Why doesn't the wraithlord challenge?

A wraithlord will kill a nob very easily before it gets to attack. Even with just 2 attacks without a sword (and HoW), you still have a 83% chance to kill the nob.

The nob, on the other hand, will do 1.3 wound on average, but it's not likely that he'll get to attack anyway.

AFAIK the Wraithlord isn't a character, so cannot issue or accept challenges.

chaos0xomega wrote:
So... anyone have any rumors about things that actually matter? I.E. the existing units that I actually do use and would use versus the new ones that I have absolutely zero interest in using?

Like point cost changes to things like existing aspects, pathfinders, artillery? New weapon profiles? Anything?

New things matter, Weather you are interested in them or not... But other then that, first post says no, they arn't hilighting the old stuff in WD, witch is the only real information that's out yet.

D6Damager wrote:
The rumors indicate the Wraithknight starts at 250 points with no upgrades and goes up to 350. If eternal warrior or feel no pain isn't one of its upgrades then it will not be that hard to kill. There is so much rending, poison, and high str Ap2 in this game it isn't even funny.

Heck, even 20 Sniper Kroot cost less than half the cost of a naked Wraithknight and can drop one in 1 or 2 rounds of fire. And Tau can ally with a lot of armies.

Unless you play orks. Then you have no rending, 3 models (melee only) posion, 1 gets hot Str8 AP2 gun (that is only on elites and HQ's choices), no insta death, no sniper, no krak grenades no lance, no melta. (Last two don't matter just pointing them out )

Wait sorry we have a Str-10 AP1 melta weapon. We have to randomly roll for it each turn on our weird boy.

Our best range bet is Lootas. And 15 lootas that roll 3 shots each might do 1 -2 wounds to it, IF they get the 45 shots. So if I take 45 lootas at 675 points I might be able to kill it at range on turn one.

The whole mob it with 30 ork boys plan will not work since it can move faster than the boyz on foot. Unless the opponent is not playing the game and just having it stand there, 30 ork boys wont catch this thing easily to tie it up.

As for trying to get power klaws to it, all they have to do is blow up the transport said power klaws are in (not hard to do). I deal with riptides with my Stormboyz since they ALL can hurt it. Not the case with the WK.

So my options look to be allies or wait 6+ months.

Yeah, at the 1500 point level, two WKs for 240 points each are doable. Every shot at the WKs is one shot less against the rest of the army, and this quite necessary if you consider the squishy Eldar troops.

Currently Wraithlords are characters much to the sad surprise of most power fist sergeants.

Brother Weasel wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So... anyone have any rumors about things that actually matter? I.E. the existing units that I actually do use and would use versus the new ones that I have absolutely zero interest in using?

Like point cost changes to things like existing aspects, pathfinders, artillery? New weapon profiles? Anything?

New things matter, Weather you are interested in them or not... But other then that, first post says no, they arn't hilighting the old stuff in WD, witch is the only real information that's out yet.

New things represent a small, tiny, and thus, relatively speaking, unimportant fraction of the whole. For something that is apparrently releasing next saturday (if certain rumors are to be believed) we dont have very much info...

chaos0xomega wrote:

New things represent a small, tiny, and thus, relatively speaking, unimportant fraction of the whole. For something that is apparrently releasing next saturday (if certain rumors are to be believed) we dont have very much info...

because no one has seen the codex yet or at least no one who posts on rumor sites...

As i said, so far the only information that people have been talking is out of WD really... and they don't talk up old units in WD...

Just the tacked on special rules for Spiders and Reapers so far. And the shoot and run thing for Dire Avengers and such. That's about all we know for infantry.

NamelessBard wrote:
[

How does your Nob kill them? Why doesn't the wraithlord challenge?

A wraithlord will kill a nob very easily before it gets to attack. Even with just 2 attacks without a sword (and HoW), you still have a 83% chance to kill the nob.

The nob, on the other hand, will do 1.3 wound on average, but it's not likely that he'll get to attack anyway.

I confess... hadn't played them in 6th ed. Good point. I usually just throw the lord a trukk squad just to tie him up a couple of rounds.

As an ork play, let's hope the new Codex don't make the lords characters.

 whembly wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
[

How does your Nob kill them? Why doesn't the wraithlord challenge?

A wraithlord will kill a nob very easily before it gets to attack. Even with just 2 attacks without a sword (and HoW), you still have a 83% chance to kill the nob.

The nob, on the other hand, will do 1.3 wound on average, but it's not likely that he'll get to attack anyway.

I confess... hadn't played them in 6th ed. Good point. I usually just throw the lord a trukk squad just to tie him up a couple of rounds.

As an ork play, let's hope the new Codex don't make the lords characters.

Their characters already, says in the back of the brb

If the WL and WK are characters Orks are more screwed.....

We will have to have the nob die , claim that "Our weapons are Useless "rule to try to get out of combat. But not sure we can do that if fearless. Never had to use that rule before lol so not sure how it works.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:


Unless you play orks. Then you have no rending, 3 models (melee only) posion, 1 gets hot Str8 AP2 gun (that is only on elites and HQ's choices), no insta death, no sniper, no krak grenades no lance, no melta. (Last two don't matter just pointing them out )

Wait sorry we have a Str-10 AP1 melta weapon. We have to randomly roll for it each turn on our weird boy.

Actually, the Shokk Attack Gun and Zzap guns are both AP2, as well as the KMB.
Furthermore, the Snazzguns on Flashgitz are AP2 1/3 of the time- 1/2 if you buy the upgrade.

The Shokk Attack Gun has the possibility, slim though it may be, of removing a Wraithknight from the board more surely than conventional ID.

Admittedly, none of these tools is especially reliable, but the Orks do have the weapons available to them. You can stick the Zzap guns on any BW, Looted Wagon, or in a cheap squad of Gretchin. It isn't efficient, but you can do it.

Happy hunting! Go zzap some Eldar!

Even IF nothing else changes for dark reapers, slow and purposeful makes them SO much more viable it isn't even funny.

If the old rumors of troop aspects via Autarch specialization is true, scoring DRs with slow and purposeful would be boss.

Zzapp guns are AP 2 but with an average STR of 7 and have to roll to hit. Not effective Same as the shokk attack gun.

Flashgits are a Joke at this point and would be trying to hit on 5's hoping for AP 1-3 and then still need 6's to would.

Hoping that our random STR and AP weapons is a big point waste just to deal with one model they MIGHT hurt.

People are forgetting they also have an army behind the WK we also have to deal with.

Gwyidion wrote:
Even IF nothing else changes for dark reapers, slow and purposeful makes them SO much more viable it isn't even funny.

If the old rumors of troop aspects via Autarch specialization is true, scoring DRs with slow and purposeful would be boss.

Adding a shrouding warlock will be nice too.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Zzapp guns are AP 2 but with an average STR of 7 and have to roll to hit. Not effective Same as the shokk attack gun.

Flashgits are a Joke at this point and would be trying to hit on 5's hoping for AP 1-3 and then still need 6's to would.

Hoping that our random STR and AP weapons is a big point waste just to deal with one model they MIGHT hurt.

People are forgetting they also have an army behind the WK we also have to deal with.

Hey Dakkafang -

Just a quick side note - we understand your points of "frustration". However, I literally come back to this thread for Eldar Rumors and continue to see you complain about how your orks are going to deal with X for multiple pages. Would you start a thread elsewhere discussing ork tactics against these new Eldar rules? It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Zzapp guns are AP 2 but with an average STR of 7 and have to roll to hit. Not effective Same as the shokk attack gun.

Flashgits are a Joke at this point and would be trying to hit on 5's hoping for AP 1-3 and then still need 6's to would.

Hoping that our random STR and AP weapons is a big point waste just to deal with one model they MIGHT hurt.

People are forgetting they also have an army behind the WK we also have to deal with.

How do you deal with Wraithlords now? Use the same against the Wraithknight.

Why are you theorizing so much? Warhammer 40k is not balanced, and it's not meant to be fair. It's quite the casual "beer and pretzels" game, and if you take it that seriously, you're going to have a bad time. If you cared so much about winning and competitiveness, give GW more of your money and invest in the flavor-of-the-month color of Space Marines; that way you could always just buy the most recent Space Marine codex and have all your rainbow-colored Marines fit that new codex. You like Orks, right? They're green. I hear Green Marines are doing well nowadays. By choosing Orks, you limited your competitive ability to the time frame around when the Ork Codex came out.

Relax, enjoy the game, and enjoy the company you play with. It took the recent Tyranid Codex to teach me that, perhaps you'll follow suit in time.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Zzapp guns are AP 2 but with an average STR of 7 and have to roll to hit. Not effective Same as the shokk attack gun.

Flashgits are a Joke at this point and would be trying to hit on 5's hoping for AP 1-3 and then still need 6's to would.

Hoping that our random STR and AP weapons is a big point waste just to deal with one model they MIGHT hurt.

People are forgetting they also have an army behind the WK we also have to deal with.

My god can we please stop with the 2 pages of wraith lord whining? Okay, you have no idea how to kill a wraithlord despite many of ideas and strategies. I've been using WLs since forever against orks and THAT is not what is dangerous to them.. it's the high volume of shots from warwalkers/spiders/avengers.

Seriously, it's just T8.. find a way to kill it or just concede when anyone casts IRON ARM.

[/rant]

The alternative, of course, is to just ram the crap out of it with a battlewagon.

Lol, the Orks have slain the thread.

Back on topic, are there any ideas of how to use this new Ranger? He seemed to have a slew of special rules, though I'm really not sure why anyone would want to ignore the deployment range of infiltrating units with a sniper squad.

Because they were increased to WS4 of course..

Goobi2 wrote:
Currently Wraithlords are characters much to the sad surprise of most power fist sergeants.

Since when are MC counted as IC? Just curious.

EDIT: Nevermind. Forgot about the appendix in the rule book. That's pretty lame.

I think it's just the wraithlord.

Though it does help when I have a BL sitting on one and he rolls a 6 to hit when firing at a unit with a character, icon, or what-have-you thing in it, for example. Wraithlord sniper ftw lol

Idk why your all yelling at the ork guy about complaining over the WK. We have done it ourselves on numerous topics of the WK for over 30 pgs. So telling some one who is actually on topic to go away is pretty double standard if ya ask me.

For those complaining about randomization...Take Eldrad and a few warlocks then problem=done.

Nocturnus wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
Currently Wraithlords are characters much to the sad surprise of most power fist sergeants.

Since when are MC counted as IC? Just curious.

EDIT: Nevermind. Forgot about the appendix in the rule book. That's pretty lame.

WAY less lame than the single guy with a powerfist hiding in a 30-strong boys mob and essentially being a 30W IC.

as a DE player why just engage the wraithknight whith some wyches and laugh ? tarpit 300 pts+ with 100 pts unit is fun

on the other hand i'm concern about the razorwing, its useless now,
need AA ? take the crimson hunter its 10 time best (FA slot!!!)
need AT ? take the voidraven or the ravager

On a different note am I the only one that think Exarchs should have 2W instead of one?

 Ravenous D wrote:
I think a lot of people are being distracted by the new shinys and not looking at the old dexs problems that needed attention.

Eldar are 3 things: Speed, Psychic powers, and specialized warriors. All things we are totally out classed and out pointed by imperial equivalents. One of the biggest problems currently is delivery of our fragile expensive troops, the wave serpent is too expensive for what it does, especially with the way tanks crumple like paper and cripple units inside from shooting.

What needs to happen is either a steep points drop (4pts for every aspect) or the addition of more rules that are built in (infiltrate on scorpions, tank hunter on dragons etc).

And now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

Currently we are meh at speed, meh at specialization and the potential for meh with psykers. This book has a lot of expectations to meet, I for one hope its not a missed opportunity.

Knowing Phil Kelly's "approach" to the CSM codex I'm gonna have to say that absolutely none of these issues have been fixed.

GTKA666 wrote:
On a different note am I the only one that think Exarchs should have 2W instead of one?

Not gonna lie, I do want that, but most sarge type characters don't have 2 wounds. Librarians do, so do Nobs, but those are more exceptions than the rule.

Here is a preview of actual new Eldar rules given to retailers by Games Workshop as selling points. Very interesting.

http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/05/eldar-rules-dump-orders-go-live-tonight.html

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
I think a lot of people are being distracted by the new shinys and not looking at the old dexs problems that needed attention.

Eldar are 3 things: Speed, Psychic powers, and specialized warriors. All things we are totally out classed and out pointed by imperial equivalents. One of the biggest problems currently is delivery of our fragile expensive troops, the wave serpent is too expensive for what it does, especially with the way tanks crumple like paper and cripple units inside from shooting.

What needs to happen is either a steep points drop (4pts for every aspect) or the addition of more rules that are built in (infiltrate on scorpions, tank hunter on dragons etc).

And now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

Currently we are meh at speed, meh at specialization and the potential for meh with psykers. This book has a lot of expectations to meet, I for one hope its not a missed opportunity.

Knowing Phil Kelly's "approach" to the CSM codex I'm gonna have to say that absolutely none of these issues have been fixed.

What issues of the CSM codex do you mean.
Eldar need speed to survive. Speed is their armor. But this has changed with the new edition mainly because tanks got nerfed. Aspects like Banshees are unplayable in a competitive setting, the same holds in principle for all other Aspects. Fire Dragons are still useful. They were always one-hit wonders.

GTKA666 wrote:
On a different note am I the only one that think Exarchs should have 2W instead of one?

No. I still remember 2e and it still feels wrong that exarchs are just glorified veteran sergeants. Also, witchblades should be proper force weapons (except better.)

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
I think a lot of people are being distracted by the new shinys and not looking at the old dexs problems that needed attention.

Eldar are 3 things: Speed, Psychic powers, and specialized warriors. All things we are totally out classed and out pointed by imperial equivalents. One of the biggest problems currently is delivery of our fragile expensive troops, the wave serpent is too expensive for what it does, especially with the way tanks crumple like paper and cripple units inside from shooting.

What needs to happen is either a steep points drop (4pts for every aspect) or the addition of more rules that are built in (infiltrate on scorpions, tank hunter on dragons etc).

And now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

Currently we are meh at speed, meh at specialization and the potential for meh with psykers. This book has a lot of expectations to meet, I for one hope its not a missed opportunity.

Knowing Phil Kelly's "approach" to the CSM codex I'm gonna have to say that absolutely none of these issues have been fixed.

The CSM are not his baby though.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:


Knowing Phil Kelly's "approach" to the CSM codex I'm gonna have to say that absolutely none of these issues have been fixed.

We already know the Dark Reapers have been given Slow and Purposeful (wishlisted for by many many people) and targeting vanes (don't know what they do, but their previous incarnation was also wishlisted for)

Hah. I like this rumor:

one of them allows ranger units to infiltrate without the range restrictions to enemy units.

Unless rangers have changed a lot - given the 1st turn charge restriction - why, oh why, oh WHY would you ever want to get that close?!

GTKA666 wrote:
On a different note am I the only one that think Exarchs should have 2W instead of one?

Sadly, yes. They will be the sargents for the squad.

Besides, if you read Gav Thorpe's books, it appears exarchs, especially those of the Striking Scorpions, die all the damn time.

 BrassScorpion wrote:
Here is a preview of actual new Eldar rules given to retailers by Games Workshop as selling points. Very interesting.

http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/05/eldar-rules-dump-orders-go-live-tonight.html

You mean the stuff which appeared on 4chan, that I already posted ten pages ago ?

deathmagiks wrote:
Besides, if you read Gav Thorpe's books, it appears exarchs, especially those of the Striking Scorpions, die all the damn time.

Lol.

I already started cehcking gw site every 5 min now. This is going to be a long night.

 pizzaguardian wrote:

deathmagiks wrote:
Besides, if you read Gav Thorpe's books, it appears exarchs, especially those of the Striking Scorpions, die all the damn time.

Lol.

I already started cehcking gw site every 5 min now. This is going to be a long night.

Waiting for preorders? Let us know when its up.

They won't be up until midnight UK time. Still have another 4 hours or so.

-Shrike- wrote:
6 S6 AP2 Blasts? And shoulder mounted weaponry? Yeah, that should worry you if you don't have a reliable way to kill it quickly.

But it can't fire all of those weapons. That's four in total or three if the shoulder mounts are tl.

Nocturnus wrote:
They won't be up until midnight UK time. Still have another 4 hours or so.

The tau went up about 23:30 or sth like that CET.

Puscifer wrote:

-Shrike- wrote:
6 S6 AP2 Blasts? And shoulder mounted weaponry? Yeah, that should worry you if you don't have a reliable way to kill it quickly.

But it can't fire all of those weapons. That's four in total or three if the shoulder mounts are tl.

Wasn't there some rumor about the arm weapons getting a bnus if the shoulder-mounted scatter-lasers hit? Maybe the scatter-lasers are Markerlights of a sort... with more pewpew and less flashlight. Perhaps these Markerlights will be albe to free-fire like Land Raiders' Machine Spirit except with more Eldar Wraith Guidance and more reasons to sell a $115 kit.

Puscifer wrote:

-Shrike- wrote:
6 S6 AP2 Blasts? And shoulder mounted weaponry? Yeah, that should worry you if you don't have a reliable way to kill it quickly.

But it can't fire all of those weapons. That's four in total or three if the shoulder mounts are tl.

Assuming it doesn't have rules to allow it to...

Gwyidion wrote:



Unless rangers have changed a lot - given the 1st turn charge restriction - why, oh why, oh WHY would you ever want to get that close?!

Agreed! Infiltrate & scout are next to useless on a unit that is best positioned at the back of the board as far away from the enemy as possible. Maybe in an apoc game - with a massive board - it would be good though???

 pizzaguardian wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
They won't be up until midnight UK time. Still have another 4 hours or so.

The tau went up about 23:30 or sth like that CET.

Well hello Mr.Fancypants! JK, I hope you're right. The sooner I order my stuff the better. 'Cause I really need to add to that pile of unpainted minis....

 warpspider89 wrote:

Gwyidion wrote:



Unless rangers have changed a lot - given the 1st turn charge restriction - why, oh why, oh WHY would you ever want to get that close?!

Agreed! Infiltrate & scout are next to useless on a unit that is best positioned at the back of the board as far away from the enemy as possible. Maybe in an apoc game - with a massive board - it would be good though???

Infiltrate can be very suseful. Infiltating Rangers could prevent the enemy infiltrators to come close to your front ranks.
Scout is also useful as it allows to reposition the Rangers slightly after deployment to get into better position.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

Gwyidion wrote:



Unless rangers have changed a lot - given the 1st turn charge restriction - why, oh why, oh WHY would you ever want to get that close?!

Agreed! Infiltrate & scout are next to useless on a unit that is best positioned at the back of the board as far away from the enemy as possible. Maybe in an apoc game - with a massive board - it would be good though???

Infiltrate can be very suseful. Infiltating Rangers could prevent the enemy infiltrators to come close to your front ranks.
Scout is also useful as it allows to reposition the Rangers slightly after deployment to get into better position.

Or getting them into that 4+ cover that is outside of your deployment zone, or getting them onto an objective, or getting clear line of sight to the enemy commander... infiltrate is GREAT on Rangers/Pathfinders. I think it's just the "getting 12" away" part that I think folks are confused about... if it were applicable towards Striking Scorpions, though...

GW haven't updated the "White Dwarf Daily" blog that can only mean one thing. Someone has forgotten to update that damned blog again

I'm just so hesitant to pre-order stuff before seeing the rules.

 ceorron wrote:
GW haven't updated the "White Dwarf Daily" blog that can only mean one thing.

Invasion?

haroon wrote:

 ceorron wrote:
GW haven't updated the "White Dwarf Daily" blog that can only mean one thing.

Invasion?

Games Workshop would not dare go so far.

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm just so hesitant to pre-order stuff before seeing the rules.

I agree. I also try to fit in a playtest or two before buying anything, let alone preorder.

True, I don't buy stuff all willy-nilly. But, I will pick up the things I know I will use, such as the Codex, Spirit Seer and the sniper. The last two are simply for "looks cool factor". I will hold off on getting a plane or Wraithknight.

about the only thing I plan on getting on the day is spirit seer, far seer POSSIBLY, sniper, and codex w/ cards

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:

Gwyidion wrote:



Unless rangers have changed a lot - given the 1st turn charge restriction - why, oh why, oh WHY would you ever want to get that close?!

Agreed! Infiltrate & scout are next to useless on a unit that is best positioned at the back of the board as far away from the enemy as possible. Maybe in an apoc game - with a massive board - it would be good though???

Infiltrate can be very suseful. Infiltating Rangers could prevent the enemy infiltrators to come close to your front ranks.
Scout is also useful as it allows to reposition the Rangers slightly after deployment to get into better position.

Or getting them into that 4+ cover that is outside of your deployment zone, or getting them onto an objective, or getting clear line of sight to the enemy commander... infiltrate is GREAT on Rangers/Pathfinders. I think it's just the "getting 12" away" part that I think folks are confused about... if it were applicable towards Striking Scorpions, though...

Good points! Thanks.

Codex and Spiritseer if he is limited edition.

I haven't preordered anything since DE 5th ed in 2010.

So, after having seen the BoLS rumors on the WK's stats and weaponry, I think it's safe to say that the WK will be *very* popular indeed, and given its power and size, I'll be very surprised if the IG codex does not include the Baneblade whenever it gets redone.

Looks like the Dire Avengers are no longer available from GW UK. The old codex still is though...

Howling Banshee's aren't available either. Not sure the rumours gave any indication as to why that would be? (unless I missed it)

Banshees are still up to order for me, the only thing unavailable is the dire avengers.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Howling Banshee's aren't available either. Not sure the rumours gave any indication as to why that would be? (unless I missed it)

they seema vailable to me

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
Howling Banshee's aren't available either. Not sure the rumours gave any indication as to why that would be? (unless I missed it)

they seema vailable to me

And for me.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Howling Banshee's aren't available either. Not sure the rumours gave any indication as to why that would be? (unless I missed it)

I got caught out last week, I'd bet you've ended up on the metal entry, which is still there, rather than the Finecast one.

When I mentioned Infiltrate restrictions lifted to a friend, and commented on the uselessness of that, he came up with a viable use.

Place a Bastion in undeployable territory and Infiltrate on top of it. Naturally it depends on what you are facing. I still think there will be many games where it's not worth it, but some games it might just make a difference.

From what I've read and been told about Guardians and Avengers, Guardians are going to be much better than Avengers.

Rumoured at 6pts for a Guardian with Shuriken Catapult that can run and shoot per shooting phase. Apparently this extends to the weapons platform too.

Avengers are rumoured to still be 12 points each and get the longer ranged Shuriken Catapult and better stats.

If this is true, the Guardians will be a much better investment.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
Howling Banshee's aren't available either. Not sure the rumours gave any indication as to why that would be? (unless I missed it)

I got caught out last week, I'd bet you've ended up on the metal entry, which is still there, rather than the Finecast one.

That's the ticket.

Dire Avengers sold out everywhere but eBay.

Not available on UK GW.

ITS HAPPENING.

I was just lingering around eBay today looking for a copy of the Tau White Dwarf 2013 that I could buy to paint my army is a similar style to the batrep. However I found that someone was selling the Eldar codex which has not been released of yet - it was for £9.29 or about $ 14 . I don't know if I can post the link but here it is the picture in high quality.



Just type up the 'White Dwarf' on ebay and scroll down to find it.

Enjoy!

iPad edition is already available, been downloading it for the last two hours :(

Where is the country of origin? If it's NZ it's because they already have theirs, if not then someone has made a mistake along the line

It is Memphis, United States

 zedmeister wrote:
Looks like the Dire Avengers are no longer available from GW UK. The old codex still is though...

Uh, what? Mine is still here on the UK site, is yours bugged or something?

I have that as well! There are there but you can't add them to the cart!

doubleposted

Wraithblades are up!

they'r UP

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCatsLarge.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

I dunno about you guys, but I'm sitting with GW's page open and I think the refresh button will have a lawsuit against me by the end of the night!

Iranna.

New marine bikers as well? Hmm new rumor thread time?

Bahahahahaha.... " and you thought the riptide was big..."

Sooooo cheesy.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440238a&prodId=prod2060070a

New Eldar Battleforce!

Wow they actually did go through with going the 100% price increase on dire avengers.

Btw; new box design

Anyone pick up on this from the Wraithknight page?:

Its left arm can be equipped with either a wraithcannon or a scattershield. The right arm has a choice of wraithcannon, ghostglaive or suncannon.

So looks like no double suncannon, only 3 S6 AP2 blasts a turn.

I love the new boxes the minis come in now!

£70 for the Knight...

£70 for the Battleforce containing 17 models... Old ones at that...


I Think GW just fethed me.... Still, I hope WW has some Dire Avenger Boxes left over tomorrow! Gonna buy as many as I can before they become oop

Vivster wrote:
I love the new boxes the minis come in now!

I have to agree with this. Very nice looking.

LOve the new stuff so much, especially the wraith guard/blade.

Oh wow... The prices. Wow

No Iyanden book?

What are these support batteries - didnt hear about them until now

Wow, Vypers now only as a 3-box, for 75 dollars..........Urgh, or the support batteries for 65....

Good God, the Wraithguard are the best buy of the entire release.

Holy, the giant wraith is 140, not the 115 it was supposed to be

Nope, US store shows it as $115.

Illic Nightspear seems to be a HQ choice instead of a squad upgrade.

Hmmm... Wraith knight is listed under HS and the flyers as FA
...Wraith guards are under Elites... pretty much as expected then

 Medium of Death wrote:
No Iyanden book?

Iyanden book is said to come 15 days later iirc.

And that plane is much better looking with 360 vision then on the leaked pics.

Slayer222 wrote:
Holy, the giant wraith is 140, not the 115 it was supposed to be

You're on the Canadian site, not the US site.

I'm surprised at all the "Three model" boxed sets coming out. It's interesting to see that come out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
Illic Nightspear seems to be a HQ choice instead of a squad upgrade.

Yup!

Mwhahahahahahaha...

I don't understand why everything is a three-pack now. Well, I do, but you know what I mean.

I guess GW has determined that it should be impossible to spend less than 20 dollars on any purchase from them anymore, to bolster their "sales".

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Nope, US store shows it as $115.

My US site showing 125$

Edit: and on a refresh its 115$ lol.

Perhaps the Vyper will be worth fielding now that they come in threes and the battleforce...yeah right, who am I kidding.

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
No Iyanden book?

Iyanden book is said to come 15 days later iirc.

And that plane is much better looking with 360 vision then on the leaked pics.

Ah, thanks!

Agreed, the 360 makes everything look so much better.

That Iyanden Wraithknight... oh... gods... my wallet... argh!

360° view of the WK makes it look pretty nice actually, it's just that chest armor that's OTT., rest of the model is fine. I also don't understand why people were bashing on the flyer so much, it's infinitely better than the fugly FW stuff, especially the side view looks nifty.

Chancetragedy wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Nope, US store shows it as $115.

My US site showing 125$

Edit: and on a refresh its 115$ lol.

You were on the Australian site, where it is $125.
New Zealand has it for $150.
Canada has it for $140.
US has it for $115.

On another note: I like the new box that it looks like they're doing for the Eldar. There's no messy photoshop art, just a black background and pictures of the models.
It's plain but rather...almost dignified I guess?

Hey, just so you know, you make a saving of £4 on Eldar Jetbikes now and £8 on the vypers... SCORE!! GW now introduces great new prices!

Holy crap...they are actually offering a discount on Necron Destroyers: New 3 pack for $50 compared to 1 for $20

The end times are upon us....

Hell has truly frozen over alright...