Ovion wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

They don't need FNP. T7 is fine. As for "accepting it", what other choice do you have? Stop playing?

"T7 is fine?" lol, not with the current wraithlord loadouts.

Stop playing, may of us already have

T7 T8? Doesn't really matter to me. My Dark Eldar wound on a 4+. As for current "load outs", what are you on about? Regardless, they will probably get knocked down to T7 so they can get all the WAAC players to buy the Wraithknight. Good day.

Our splinter weaponry wounds on a 4+, but for things like Darklight Weaponry to drop a save, or non-poisoned CC attacks, it makes a difference. Str3 can't hurt T7/8. Str8 wounds on a 3+/4+. Poison's great, but with a 3+ save you need what... 6 shots to cause a wound, on a 2+ 12 shots. with 3 wounds that's 18/36 shots to drop it (24/48 at 4w for a wraithseer). It's still a good whack of fire per model that's needed.

Exactly! T7 with a 3+ is fine. I am amazed at the amount of beardy players that want 2++ with S10 AP1 weapons. If your army relies on T8, that's a crutch.

Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

T6 for a Wraithlord does not make sense.

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

Dark Eldar also use bits of scrap and exotic materials to build their stuff, CWE do not, they use Wraithbone, a far stronger substance. That is why its T8 and not 7 or 6. The stuff is used to construct Craftworlds, of course it is going to be durable.

 Morachi wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

Dark Eldar also use bits of scrap and exotic materials to build their stuff, CWE do not, they use Wraithbone, a far stronger substance. That is why its T8 and not 7 or 6. The stuff is used to construct Craftworlds, of course it is going to be durable.

Yeah, a Talos is a bulky load of flesh with armour plates covering... some of it. (also - not bits of scrap, that's Orks. DE machine their stuff well with the finest slave labour.)
A Wraithlord is a solid construct of psychicly motivated armour and energy fields.

It's like saying, an elephant is bulkier than than lampost, so the elephant must be tougher - but I know which one will succumb to gunfire first.

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

A Talos has dangly bits, muscle,bone, sinew, metal, and hard carapace at places. It's basically comparible to a T6 Tyranid MC with enhanced drugs and add-ons.

A Wraithlord is made out of pure material that tanks are made from. It has no skin or blood vessels or muscle or anything. It is just made out of pure tank-parts with minimal moving parts.

If you blow a hole into a Talos or a Tyranid MC, you're going to rupture a blood vessel or fracture a bone. If you blow a hole into a Wraithlord, it'll be little more than an accessory. Even Necrons have wires and such that leave them open to disruption. Toughness is the ability to shrug off wounds, and Wraithlords have no discernable anatomy or weak points. Every part of them is made from the same stuff that the Eldar use on their main battle tanks and titans.

 Ovion wrote:
It's like saying, an elephant is bulkier than than lampost, so the elephant must be tougher - but I know which one will succumb to gunfire first.

That's probably the best comparison I've ever heard.

T8 made them immune to S4. That's the point.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
3) Yes they have high prices. This is a luxury / hobby you don't need to play it.

The issue is not, nor has it ever been, that the prices are high. The issue is that the prices are arbitrarily high. There is no reason for Dire Avengers to double in price when the codex comes out. The models did not after all, double in quality. Likewise, the Wraithknight is vastly over-priced compared to what other companies that produce plastic models give for that price. GW gets away with making their prices arbitrarily high and out-of-touch with what other plastic model makers produce because people keep ignoring the vast disparity between price and value and believe GW's hype about being the "Porsche of miniatures". Unfortunately for GW, the number of people who are willing to put up with their nonsense gets smaller every year.

Absolutionis wrote:The head does look better when painted a full solid color rather than the 'deal with it' glasses, but in that picture, it looks really tipsy in both meanings of the word.

Thokt wrote: WK looks like he's about to fall over.

Yeah, the leg in the photo is really shiny/dark so the fact that it's got quite a significant bend at the knee is kind of lost.

What i want to know is, with all these armies getting masssive walkers / MCs (Dreadknight, Riptide, Wraithknight etc.) where the hell is my 9' tall plastic bloodthirster! lol

Wow, the Wraithguard are bigger than it seemed from the previous pics. This is really testing my will to start an army for 40k again. The Wraithknight is actually too big for my liking. A Bright Stallion still would've been cooler, and I'm wondering if a realistic conversion of one that counts as a WK could be done without costing a fortune. That head need to be supersized in either case.

 Eldar Craft wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:

 Eldar Craft wrote:
At least the jet bikes appear to have updated riders. instead of the ancient rebreather pilots.

Check the "Windrider" picture. It's still the rebreather-KKK-leathercoat guys.

I'll have to check it out. I didn't see it on the front page but i haven't checked in a while. Man that sucks. Was hoping to see them get some love.

Maybe if the two new codexes have zero photos of jetbikes (just artwork) we can take that as a sign that new jetbikes might come out with another book? That might be stretching a bit...

Further confirmation that the "new" Dire Avengers boxed set will include only 5 figures:

Ovion wrote:

 Morachi wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

Dark Eldar also use bits of scrap and exotic materials to build their stuff, CWE do not, they use Wraithbone, a far stronger substance. That is why its T8 and not 7 or 6. The stuff is used to construct Craftworlds, of course it is going to be durable.

Yeah, a Talos is a bulky load of flesh with armour plates covering... some of it. (also - not bits of scrap, that's Orks. DE machine their stuff well with the finest slave labour.)
A Wraithlord is a solid construct of psychicly motivated armour and energy fields.

It's like saying, an elephant is bulkier than than lampost, so the elephant must be tougher - but I know which one will succumb to gunfire first.

But that's not because a lamp post is tougher than an elephant; it just doesn't have bleeding vital organs on the inside. An elephant would tear a lamp post down with little effort. How much damage is an average lamp post going to do to an elephant, on the other hand?

Cute quip, but a horribly flawed example.

JOHIRA wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
3) Yes they have high prices. This is a luxury / hobby you don't need to play it.

The issue is not, nor has it ever been, that the prices are high. The issue is that the prices are arbitrarily high. There is no reason for Dire Avengers to double in price when the codex comes out. The models did not after all, double in quality. Likewise, the Wraithknight is vastly over-priced compared to what other companies that produce plastic models give for that price. GW gets away with making their prices arbitrarily high and out-of-touch with what other plastic model makers produce because people keep ignoring the vast disparity between price and value and believe GW's hype about being the "Porsche of miniatures". Unfortunately for GW, the number of people who are willing to put up with their nonsense gets smaller every year.

First of all, no one buys because they believe the Porsche analogy. They buy because they think the model looks freaking sweet, and/or they play the army and want to add that piece to it. Sadly for the complainers, GW's volume of sales has increased, so the profits they are seeing isn't from the prices alone.

GW's plastic technology is better than any other in the industry. That is NOT debatable. The detail is sharper than PP's resin Colossals; far easier to assemble and trasnport too. Oh, and it comes with loads of extra bits and makes more than one, static-pose figure. And it's priced similarly for being a massive model.

Figure-for-figure, GW's models are of a higher quality, and the prices are pretty much the same across the industry. The problem isn't price of individual model: it's the start-up cost. The sticker shock is getting to you, but that's because a codex model hasn't been that expensive before. Then again, a codex model hasn't been that large either, so it makes sense.

I'm sure some bright spark will be along soon to tell us how we're all being unreasonable by thinking the change to Dire Avengers isn't justified.

Yeah, I saw that. Makes me a sad panda. My used DA went up in value though.

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

LOL great point! Did Wraithlords used to be T7 at one point?

 brassangel wrote:
Sadly for the complainers, GW's volume of sales has increased, so the profit isn't benefiting from the prices in general.

Citation required.

 brassangel wrote:
GW's plastic is better than any other from another company. That is NOT debatable.

No it's not. Yes it is. In that order.

 brassangel wrote:
Figure-for-figure, GW's models are of a higher quality, and the prices are pretty much the same across the industry.

Again, citation required. You're not making any real points, you're just regurgitating the kool-aid you appear to be drinking.

 brassangel wrote:
The problem isn't price of individual model: it's the start-up cost.

Cool. And the Dire Avengers have been out for half a decade. What part of their 'start up costs' are not covered yet in that time, so much so that they need to half the model count in the box without halving the price?

Does anyone know if the new 5 figure Dire Avenger box is different than the current 10 figure box?

For the exarch, the White Dwarf photos say "This includes two alternative heads and several exciting wargear options, including a lethal power halberd, wrist-mounted shuriken catapults, a back banner and an intricately detailed shimmershield."

Is this any different than the current box?

Nope. It's just one sprue rather than two. For the same cost. It's the single most blatant example of price gouging in 40K in recent memory (since the Cadians went from 20 to 10 I believe).

With all the models in the Eldar range that need updating and only the "Wraith_____" stuff actually being done, why aren't they just calling this "CODEX IYANDEN"? Sucks for you guys hoping for updated jetbikes.

Nocturnus wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

LOL great point! Did Wraithlords used to be T7 at one point?

Well, they used to be vehicles. But as far as I remember, they have always been T8.

 Ovion wrote:

 Morachi wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

Dark Eldar also use bits of scrap and exotic materials to build their stuff, CWE do not, they use Wraithbone, a far stronger substance. That is why its T8 and not 7 or 6. The stuff is used to construct Craftworlds, of course it is going to be durable.

Yeah, a Talos is a bulky load of flesh with armour plates covering... some of it. (also - not bits of scrap, that's Orks. DE machine their stuff well with the finest slave labour.)
A Wraithlord is a solid construct of psychicly motivated armour and energy fields.

It's like saying, an elephant is bulkier than than lampost, so the elephant must be tougher - but I know which one will succumb to gunfire first.

Energy fields? Really? As H. points out T8 makes them immune to bolters. That's the reason people's panties are in a bunch ( if it even happens). They don't want to lose their Wraithlord to tactical marines.

People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of warmachine gargants. They're only 15 dollars less but considerably smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is not one of them,

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
Sadly for the complainers, GW's volume of sales has increased, so the profit isn't benefiting from the prices in general.

Citation required.

Seconded.

I've seen all sorts of arguments around whether volume has dropped or not, but I think this is the first time I've seen someone claim that sales have increased?

BrotherVord wrote:
People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of other GW large walker models. They're only 25 dollars less but are somewhat smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is certainly one of them,

Fixed that for you.

BrotherVord wrote:
People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of warmachine gargants. They're only 15 dollars less but considerably smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is not one of them,

If you mean Colossals you're flat out wrong, I've seen a couple in the resin and they're waay more substantial.

Please, please, please don't make this another GW vs PP thing. We can find enough price inconsistency just by looking at the GW range. Why bring anyone else into it?

 azreal13 wrote:

BrotherVord wrote:
People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of warmachine gargants. They're only 15 dollars less but considerably smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is not one of them,

If you mean Colossals you're flat out wrong, I've seen a couple in the resin and they're waay more substantial.

Yep. While they're only 5-6" vs 9", they're beefy boys and more than make up in mass what they lack in height against it. Plus, they're solid resin and metal vs hollow plastic.

That Ulthwe Wraithknight has got to be the worst posed mini (can you even call it that?) I've ever seen. Found it funny that the army includes the original Fire Dragons as well. I really hope Seer Councils are back.

I thought those Fire Dragons looked off...

Goobi2 wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

LOL great point! Did Wraithlords used to be T7 at one point?

Well, they used to be vehicles. But as far as I remember, they have always been T8.

In the 3rd edition rulebook, (the major transition from 2nd edition to 3rd where we went from two dozen models to 40ish for a 1500pt game) there were unit details printed for every (ok, most) unit of every major faction. From memory, they were toughness 7 in the Eldar section of that rulebook and were until the Eldar codex was released.

Starting to get a bit worried. We're getting another assault unit (wraithblades), and yet I've seen very little about addressing the fact that we already have 3 assault units (if you count guardians) with no way of transport. I can see some possible addresses to this (run-shoot-run, some vague mention to a WS ability, Cast-able conceal) but I was really hoping for a delivery system above all else.

BrotherVord wrote:
People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of warmachine gargants. They're only 15 dollars less but considerably smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is not one of them,

Doesn't matter.

GW act like and make us feel bad for buying their stuff.

Its like EA vs Valve, both make games, but only one makes you feel like you are getting screwed.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
So Wraithknights are the same size as a Revenant titan and a third the dollar cost. Should put an end to that whining.

Sounds like a line straight from the GW board room.

BrotherVord wrote:
People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of warmachine gargants. They're only 15 dollars less but considerably smaller.

GW sucks fat ones for a lot of reasons....this is not one of them,

I bet you can guess what else I'm not buying.

Being a slightly better value than another terrible value doesn't make it a good value. Bad>Awful, but Bad will never equal Good.

BrotherVord wrote:
People complaining about the price of the giant elder walker need to look at the price of warmachine gargants.

Why do I need to look at Warmachine? I don't care about Warmachine. My choices are not "Either GW or Warmachine". My choices are "GW or every other game and/or model that exists, or nothing at all." GW's job is to justify their constantly increasing prices to me on their own merits, not by making some silly comparison to one other similar company.

Seriously could the people constantly whining about the cost issue FRAK OFF and create a new thread already, since the mods of dakka seem to be half the problem it's obviously no good asking them to keep this thread on topic..

brassangel wrote:Sadly for the complainers, GW's volume of sales has increased

Where are you getting that tidbit there, and are you able to attribute it to model sales and not every retailer having to dump their existing stock of paint and replenish from scratch? Their revenue increased less than 7% between 2011 and 2012, in a year with massive price hikes and the aforementioned complete turnover of all paints stock, trying to argue that they've seen meaningful sales growth is...very difficult.

GW's plastic technology is better than any other in the industry. That is NOT debatable. The detail is sharper than PP's resin Colossals; far easier to assemble and trasnport too. Oh, and it comes with loads of extra bits and makes more than one, static-pose figure. And it's priced similarly for being a massive model.

Figure-for-figure, GW's models are of a higher quality, and the prices are pretty much the same across the industry.

None of which explains things like apparent doubling the price on a 7 year old kit like Dire Avengers however The big guy is one thing, but it's stuff like parting out the DA's and effectively doubling their price that honks people off. That said, even accounting for inflation over the last 6 years as well, the Wraithknight is more expensive at launch than the Baneblade was, by ~10%, and, though large, isn't of the same size, nor does it look like it has a larger number of sprues.

 Breotan wrote:
With all the models in the Eldar range that need updating and only the "Wraith_____" stuff actually being done, why aren't they just calling this "CODEX IYANDEN"? Sucks for you guys hoping for updated jetbikes.

QFT. Also for the people that loved Biel-Tan and other Aspect Warrior-centric armies, it seems like barely a new release. Aspect Warriors were always one of the most exciting and unique parts of the Eldar army and (so far, anyway) it seems that their models were largely ignored. Okay for some I guess, since they won't have to buy anything save the codex.

However, I guess GW could be setting themselves up for a series of Craftworld-based supplements and then waves matching each one. They will each include an across-the-board price hike, no doubt.

Edit: the Dragon Riders are pretty exciting though. Players have been waiting on those for 4 Editions.

Da Butcha wrote:

 wowsmash wrote:
Love the new eldar stuff but I will not be starting an eldar army after all. Their prices are getting beyond reason for me at this point. I have my orks but I can put two and two together. The pricing going out of control has me on the edge of keeping my orks or selling them and turning to another game. Really sad since I love 40k and fantasy. I want to make high elves and eldar and even some tau but its just two crazy on the prices.

Yeah, these prices aren't just getting ridiculous. They are starting to feel like the GW version of Abercrombie & Fitch. Instead of not making larger sizes because they don't want their clothing seen on fat people, GW seems to be making items more expensive just because they don't want average wage-earners participating in their hobby.

I love the 40k and Fantasy universes, and I've been a hard-core collector of their books, as well as someone who buys a stupid amount of 'hobby-related' stuff (Gamer's editions, tape measures, store opening merchandise, etc.). The prices just feel like GW is trying to position themselves as a luxury brand simply by charging a luxury price, rather than by producing a superlative quality product that necessitates a high price. It makes me feel like GW doesn't want me as a fan any longer. Me or the skint college kids, or the 9 year olds, or any middle class/blue collar fans.

I feel like they might as well stop selling their product entirely, and start up a GW club, with a $10,000 entrance fee and free armies.

Again, this isn't an "I can't afford the Wraithknight" moaning session. I can afford one. Hell, I could probably buy three if they weren't competing for slots with Wraithlords. It's a lament that GW seems to be developing and marketing everything exclusively towards those consumers who are entirely price-insensitive, and not those of us who have a limited amount of recreational dollars and make decisions on what to spend them on.

Ok. Mr. Burns is amused. Give your models to the homeless like the AF campaign is doing. Been in this long enough to remember 2 rhinos a box. Is the cost increase annoying? Yep, is it expected? Yep. Do I care? Not really, I just buy less, and even then, I trade/secondhand to get what I want.

xttz wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
So Wraithknights are the same size as a Revenant titan and a third the dollar cost. Should put an end to that whining.

Revenants are 12-13" tall, compared to 9" for the Knight. It's not quite on the same scale, but it would still make a decent proxy for people on a budget.

Theres a dude who made a sick titan out of toothbrushes, seriously.

Morachi wrote:

 Sangarn wrote:
Taloi are T7 and are a lot more bulkier than their CWE counterpart btw
wraithlord should be T6 imo :p

eh, I wont be surprised if they drop the toughness. Zerkers lost an attack, anything can happen.

Dark Eldar also use bits of scrap and exotic materials to build their stuff, CWE do not, they use Wraithbone, a far stronger substance. That is why its T8 and not 7 or 6. The stuff is used to construct Craftworlds, of course it is going to be durable.

Dildos, CD playersm chickenwire, and chechnyan children.

Lastly, PP model cost is irrelevant/ period.

 puma713 wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
With all the models in the Eldar range that need updating and only the "Wraith_____" stuff actually being done, why aren't they just calling this "CODEX IYANDEN"? Sucks for you guys hoping for updated jetbikes.

QFT. Also for the people that loved Biel-Tan and other Aspect Warrior-centric armies, it seems like barely a new release. Aspect Warriors were always one of the most exciting and unique parts of the Eldar army and (so far, anyway) it seems that their models were largely ignored. Okay for some I guess, since they won't have to buy anything save the codex.

However, I guess GW could be setting themselves up for a series of Craftworld-based supplements and then waves matching each one. They will each include an across-the-board price hike, no doubt.

And QFT to you, sir. I think it's kinda weird that the flyer is called Wraith-ship, or whatever. Isn't the Wraith thing about being a deceased Eldar's spirit? And doesn't the flyer have a (living) pilot?

But even more I want to second your statement about the Aspect Warriors. I have loved them since 2nd Ed. I am really puzzled that they didn't take this opportunity to do a coupld of dual-build kits to cover at least 4 Aspects in this release. Instead we get the over-priced mini titan that NO ONE DEMANDED, instead of, besides Aspect Warriors, say, new jetbikes that ALMOST EVERYONE DEMANDED.

It is possible that they're going to do later waves, and this is jut the Iyanden "Wraith-wave"™ Maybe there will be an Aspect/Biel-Tann wave , a bike/vehicle/Saim-Hann wave , new Rangers/Alaitoc wave, new Warlocks/Ulthwe wave ...

...though honestly, GW doesn't inspire much confidence on this account. It seems like a brilliant idea - which is precisely why I don't think it's all that likely.

-C6

You have no one to blame but yourself if you keep buying it, however. The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

 Starfarer wrote:
The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

Ok, this is chafing me:
what the man above said is accurate and rings like a bell flailed by helen keller.

Dat plastic crack.

Seriously, while I understand people being annoyed by the increases, you really can't say times are hard and this is an attack on your survival. You still have electricity, food, living space, and essentials right? Remember, Its toy soldiers in a game designed and produced by a company that intends to sell toy soldiers. If you can't come to grips with that, you should really step back from the table, breathe in, and find a more fulfilling, less emotionally charging experience for you.

These are first world problems, dawg.

As for the models, I like the little comparison they made, with the knight next to the other two wraith items, I feel a bit more entertained now by its size. I'm kinda hoping that the legs and hips will be posable, as I can think of a lot of things I want to base it kicking.... maybe poor people in wheelchairs.

Re: Aspect warriors - after buying them because the models are sweet, I can't really say I'm surprised that they were not redone. The cases in most cases are fine. While warp spiders look like they are carrying a tool from a proctologist office, it serves a purpose, and its not as if the most recent iterations shown of them, such as dawn of war, have shown them differently. If the rules are good, I could give three rat anuses less if the models look like nagash.

As for halving the dires, I sure am glad I loved the models enough to have accomplished painting sixty. Booyakasha! Guardsmen got the same treatment back in the day....and everything else.

Nocturnus wrote:
They don't want to lose their Wraithlord to tactical marines.

My pieces of unfathomably powerful ancient stargods sheathed in unknowable technology shed a metallic tear for you.

 Starfarer wrote:
Wow, the Wraithguard are bigger than it seemed from the previous pics. This is really testing my will to start an army for 40k again. The Wraithknight is actually too big for my liking. A Bright Stallion still would've been cooler, and I'm wondering if a realistic conversion of one that counts as a WK could be done without costing a fortune. That head need to be supersized in either case.

I'm thinking the same thing as you do.

I've found this pic of a bright stallion conversion, it look good and doesn't seem hard to do, since theyr is almost no green stuff involved. Tough I have no clue how it was made

http://voidhunters.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/building-eldar-bright-stallion.html

This appears to be the guide to building it, or an alternate at least.

 Starfarer wrote:
You have no one to blame but yourself if you keep buying it, however. The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

Which is why they don't get a penny from me.

thank you kind sir

 Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
They don't want to lose their Wraithlord to tactical marines.

My pieces of unfathomably powerful ancient stargods sheathed in unknowable technology shed a metallic tear for you.

Nice. Dirty Necrons...

streetsamurai wrote:
thank you kind sir

You're welcome.

I think that the 4 kits required for the build still work out cheaper than the Wraithknight.

Has anyone got an insight as to how the Crimson Hunters Exarch will work?

Will this mean we will need 3 flyers with one being upgradableto an Exarch? I woould assume that not every CH will be upgradable, but buying a Squadren could get expensive.

resipsa wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

Seriously, while I understand people being annoyed by the increases, you really can't say times are hard and this is an attack on your survival. You still have electricity, food, living space, and essentials right? Remember, Its toy soldiers in a game designed and produced by a company that intends to sell toy soldiers. If you can't come to grips with that, you should really step back from the table, breathe in, and find a more fulfilling, less emotionally charging experience for you.

These are first world problems, dawg.

Ok, see, nobody's saying that this is a life or death problem, but just because it's a "first world problem" doesn't make it a non-issue. I see it as a big problem that I may soon be priced out of 40k as it's something I love very much and a hobby that means a lot to me. So no, I won't die if the models get too expensive, but I'd still be losing something important, and not just losing it but pretty much having it taken away by the very company that makes it. Most other hobbies don't have this issue, like I'll never be priced out of reading or feel like publishing companies no longer want my business, so it sucks to get so invested and then have GW keep making it harder and harder to stick around.

resipsa wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

Ok, this is chafing me:
what the man above said is accurate and rings like a bell flailed by helen keller.

Dat plastic crack.

Seriously, while I understand people being annoyed by the increases, you really can't say times are hard and this is an attack on your survival. You still have electricity, food, living space, and essentials right? Remember, Its toy soldiers in a game designed and produced by a company that intends to sell toy soldiers. If you can't come to grips with that, you should really step back from the table, breathe in, and find a more fulfilling, less emotionally charging experience for you.

These are first world problems, dawg.

You're here talking about how it's chafing you that people are complaining about prices? First world problems much?

News flash, humanity revolves around money, when people start getting "chafed" by prices, they are gonna start talking about it. Plenty of people are buying less or moving to other companies because of prices and though it's a first world problem, discussion about it is fine in my book. We are, after all, on the information super-highway discussing little toy men from all corners of the globe, it's very much a first world topic, the associated problems tend to also be quite first world.

GW's prices haven't affected my life in any meaningful for about 12 years, back when I was buying models with money I was earning doing chores. Just because it's not a life or death situation doesn't mean it doesn't piss me off. The main reason it pisses me off is it as it becomes less worth the money they ask, the less I want to continue collecting, but at the same time I have existing collections I've sunk huge amounts of time in to (the time bothers me more than the money).

If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

BTW this isnt a topic about price bitching or unfathomably enthral long conversations about first world problems.... This is a thread about the upcoming eldar... I know crazy right??

Mime wrote:
Has anyone got an insight as to how the Crimson Hunters Exarch will work?

Will this mean we will need 3 flyers with one being upgradableto an Exarch? I woould assume that not every CH will be upgradable, but buying a Squadren could get expensive.

It could work like the fighta ace upgrade for the dakka fighter- you pay x amount of points for an upgrade to BS and the ability to strafing run everything (or maybe slightly different)

Wow. That Wraithknight is just, unbelievably huge. My god.

I'm just going to pick up the Codex, for now. With Phil Kelly writing it, it will at least make competitive choices and garbage choices real clear, since he has such terrible internal balance.

I'll have to really take some time to figure out if I want to keep my Eldar, or not.

Not like Cruddace or Ward have ever done that


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wilytank wrote:
If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

 Wilytank wrote:
If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

I am hopeful. Phil LOVES Eldar so I anticipate they will get some love. But I agree, he has created some of the worst units in game (looking at you Mr.Mandrake).

Nocturnus wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

I am hopeful. Phil LOVES Eldar so I anticipate they will get some love. But I agree, he has created some of the worst units in game (looking at you Mr.Mandrake).

Hah. There has been far worse than the Mandrake and it was not done by Phil. I could easily throw the Pyrovore out there or have we all just let that bug slip into memory?

 -Loki- wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zathras wrote:
What the feth? Wraithknight....a giant robot? As a Necron player I protest....where's my giant robot? I mean, c'mon, we're robots already....shouldn't we have been the first to have one????

Triarch Stalker.

Not giant enough....Stalker's smaller than a Defiler. I want a GIANT NECRON OVERLORD ROBOT that makes me go .

Of course you all know I'm joking about this. If GW did come out with a big fething Necron robot death machine it would cost more $$ than the Wraithknight and would have rules in a separate supplement that costs more than the fething codex.

 Mkvenner wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

I am hopeful. Phil LOVES Eldar so I anticipate they will get some love. But I agree, he has created some of the worst units in game (looking at you Mr.Mandrake).

Hah. There has been far worse than the Mandrake and it was not done by Phil. I could easily throw the Pyrovore out there or have we all just let that bug slip into memory?

You know, I've actually never seen a pyrovore on the field... Ever!!

 Spazamataz wrote:
BTW this isnt a topic about price bitching or unfathomably enthral long conversations about first world problems.... This is a thread about the upcoming eldar... I know crazy right??

Discussing the price of the new Eldar is not a reasonable topic? It's decidedly on topic, or so I would have thought.

You mightn't like it, but concerns over the latest batch of pricing is ripe for commentary. The change from 10 to 5 DA's for the same cost is reason enough alone to complain.

 Mkvenner wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

I am hopeful. Phil LOVES Eldar so I anticipate they will get some love. But I agree, he has created some of the worst units in game (looking at you Mr.Mandrake).

Hah. There has been far worse than the Mandrake and it was not done by Phil. I could easily throw the Pyrovore out there or have we all just let that bug slip into memory?

But the Mandrake models look AWESOME. Their rules sucketh mightily. The Pyrovore looks like it sucks

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Spazamataz wrote:
BTW this isnt a topic about price bitching or unfathomably enthral long conversations about first world problems.... This is a thread about the upcoming eldar... I know crazy right??

Discussing the price of the new Eldar is not a reasonable topic? It's decidedly on topic, or so I would have thought.

You mightn't like it, but concerns over the latest batch of pricing is ripe for commentary. The change from 10 to 5 DA's for the same cost is reason enough alone to complain.

that's by far my bigger compain about the eldar pricing. The wk price is not that bad considering how huge it is, the dire avenger situation is simply scandalous

streetsamurai wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
Wow, the Wraithguard are bigger than it seemed from the previous pics. This is really testing my will to start an army for 40k again. The Wraithknight is actually too big for my liking. A Bright Stallion still would've been cooler, and I'm wondering if a realistic conversion of one that counts as a WK could be done without costing a fortune. That head need to be supersized in either case.

I'm thinking the same thing as you do.

I've found this pic of a bright stallion conversion, it look good and doesn't seem hard to do, since theyr is almost no green stuff involved. Tough I have no clue how it was made

A bright stallion would be as tall as the wraith knight, so you'd need two of those kits.

Nocturnus wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

I am hopeful. Phil LOVES Eldar so I anticipate they will get some love. But I agree, he has created some of the worst units in game (looking at you Mr.Mandrake).

Unfortunately enough he's loved them a little too much. I'm afraid of the things he won't change because he loves them ((aka Guardians) (aka the worst most option free troops choice in a game where troops matter)). I'm just afraid that the new shiny will be great and the old and derpy will be left to rot. Random powers already confirms the nerf bat across the face of Farseers and Warlocks, they of course have to nerf Runes of Warding because Space Wolves have to remain on top for anti psykers, the introduction of the Wrathknight confirms the nerf bat to Wraithlords, and lest us forget the BRB all by its lonesome killed the hopes and dreams of elite strike squads of aspect warriors and the vehicles that loved to carry them with the Assault Phase Gimp and introduction of the Hull Points system (that last ones not on Kelly BTW).

Really I love the new models but I see no hope in the rules. I see the Eldar Codex becoming a bring some allies with you or go home Dex.

Wasn't Iyanden still alive when Kraken attacked? They were wraith constructs because of Kraken.

They woke them for reinforcements when they were taking heavy losses.

Goobi2 wrote:
They woke them for reinforcements when they were taking heavy losses.

Also like all the hive fleets, splinter groups remain.. So could be from the last stand or any time after

I have removed a number of off-topic posts. If you have issues with a post, report it. Complaining in the thread that people aren't talking about the things you want to talk about is off-topic, and will be treated as spam.

And yes, discussing the pricing of the new releases is on topic, when the topic is those new releases.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Random powers already confirms the nerf bat across the face of Farseers and Warlocks, they of course have to nerf Runes of Warding because Space Wolves have to remain on top for anti psykers.

All of this was going to happen regardless of anything else. Powers are now random for 6th (a massive point in its favour to me), and things like the Runes of Warding are less effective (see: Psychic Hoods). I'd make any bet you like that Space Wolf Rune Priests will be way toned down as well once it gets around to their turn.

Found this on Warseer. Have not seen it here yet. THESE ARE JUST RUMORS:

-You can make Run moves in addition to shooting Shuriken weapons.

-Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6-- similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule.

-The Wraithknight starts at about 250 points and caps around 350, and towers over even the Tau Riptide. It's 9'' tall. The Wraithknight has the ability for its weapons to become twin-linked if it hits with a scatter laser it comes equipped with, even against airborne targets. It can shoot S9 and 10 small blasts, and has a total of four weapons on it-- you have a choice of several, including a huge wraithblade and a lance weapon.

- Wraithguard are cheaper both points-wise and financially speaking, and are now S5 and T6, and have the option to be equipped with Wraithblades as per the current Codex's in place of their guns, making them a dangerous close combat unit.

- Including a Spiritseer as a HQ choice allows you to bring Wraithguard as Troops.

- Expect Guardians to supplant Dire Avengers as the staple Troops choice-- they're very points efficient and with the buff to shuriken weapons, they should expect to be in a lot of competitive armies.

-The Fire Prism has been nerfed a bit-- basically, they want to drive people back towards Aspect Warrior and Wraith-heavy armies, rather than the mechanized Eldar army literally everyone and their brother played with the exact same list. Can't really say to what extent, but the purchasing advice was to "Not load up on them."

-The Avatar is "Definitely better."

-The Iyanden supplement is not a splash release, and will be normally available. Iyanden is strictly a fluff book, and contains no game rules. The rules to play a themed Iyanden army are found completely in Codex: Eldar. This is a move to appease people who want more fluff in books as well as people who would rather just have more game content with the fluff optional. This is an experiment in seeing how this works-- if it does well, expect Games Workshop to continue with the release of "chapter-specific" fluff supplements for their Codex releases.


Interesting read about the Iyanden book...

deathmagiks wrote:
Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6-- similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule.

If this is true then I'm going to be one ticked off Necron player. That should be a part of the Gauss weapon rules, not Shuriken weaponry.

 Spazamataz wrote:

You know, I've actually never seen a pyrovore on the field... Ever!!

And with good reason. The rules are bad and the model is not doing it any favors at all.

deathmagiks wrote:
Found this on Warseer. Have not seen it here yet. THESE ARE JUST RUMORS:

-You can make Run moves in addition to shooting Shuriken weapons.

-Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6-- similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule.

-The Wraithknight starts at about 250 points and caps around 350, and towers over even the Tau Riptide. It's 9'' tall. The Wraithknight has the ability for its weapons to become twin-linked if it hits with a scatter laser it comes equipped with, even against airborne targets. It can shoot S9 and 10 small blasts, and has a total of four weapons on it-- you have a choice of several, including a huge wraithblade and a lance weapon.

- Wraithguard are cheaper both points-wise and financially speaking, and are now S5 and T6, and have the option to be equipped with Wraithblades as per the current Codex's in place of their guns, making them a dangerous close combat unit.

- Including a Spiritseer as a HQ choice allows you to bring Wraithguard as Troops.

- Expect Guardians to supplant Dire Avengers as the staple Troops choice-- they're very points efficient and with the buff to shuriken weapons, they should expect to be in a lot of competitive armies.

-The Fire Prism has been nerfed a bit-- basically, they want to drive people back towards Aspect Warrior and Wraith-heavy armies, rather than the mechanized Eldar army literally everyone and their brother played with the exact same list. Can't really say to what extent, but the purchasing advice was to "Not load up on them."

-The Avatar is "Definitely better."

-The Iyanden supplement is not a splash release, and will be normally available. Iyanden is strictly a fluff book, and contains no game rules. The rules to play a themed Iyanden army are found completely in Codex: Eldar. This is a move to appease people who want more fluff in books as well as people who would rather just have more game content with the fluff optional. This is an experiment in seeing how this works-- if it does well, expect Games Workshop to continue with the release of "chapter-specific" fluff supplements for their Codex releases.

Those have been circling all over the place. While some shreds of it are true (due to having the WD) some of these are opinions within the rumours.

 Zathras wrote:

deathmagiks wrote:
Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6-- similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule.

If this is true then I'm going to be one ticked off Necron player. That should be a part of the Gauss weapon rules, not Shuriken weaponry.

Lol, what, glancing a land raider and/or bastion on a 6 to wound isn't enough for you?

deathmagiks wrote:

 Zathras wrote:

deathmagiks wrote:
Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6-- similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule.

If this is true then I'm going to be one ticked off Necron player. That should be a part of the Gauss weapon rules, not Shuriken weaponry.

Lol, what, glancing a land raider and/or bastion on a 6 to wound isn't enough for you?

Damned straight. If a simple Warrior can do that to vehicle with it's Gauss Flayer, there should be a similar effect available when shooting at a trooper in body armor. It would mean a points cost bump per model of course but I'd be willing to pay it.

It's called auto wounding regardless if T value... Shuruken weapons are apparently still unable to wound if the T value is too high...

 Zathras wrote:

deathmagiks wrote:

 Zathras wrote:

deathmagiks wrote:
Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6-- similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule.

If this is true then I'm going to be one ticked off Necron player. That should be a part of the Gauss weapon rules, not Shuriken weaponry.

Lol, what, glancing a land raider and/or bastion on a 6 to wound isn't enough for you?

Damned straight. If a simple Warrior can do that to vehicle with it's Gauss Flayer, there should be a similar effect available when shooting at a trooper in body armor. It would mean a points cost bump per model of course but I'd be willing to pay it.

Welcome to the world of S \ AP where great against armour can mean awful against armour.
Elder also have armour-bane weapons with AP-.
With system specifically created to distinguish one armour from the other you can't expect equal treatment to both.

 Macok wrote:
Welcome to the world of S \ AP where great against armour can mean awful against armour.
Elder also have armour-bane weapons with AP-.
With system specifically created to distinguish one armour from the other you can't expect equal treatment to both.

I still don't forgive GW for getting rid of save modifiers and introducing the AP system. The AP system is basically like building imbalance right in to the core mechanics of a game.

....am I the only one that didn't skip over the fact that witch blades have armor AND fleshbane? Kinda puts a hole in your logic there....

GTKA666 wrote:
....am I the only one that didn't skip over the fact that witch blades have armor AND fleshbane? Kinda puts a hole in your logic there....

So basically Lightsabers that are useless against infantry armour?

GTKA666 wrote:
....am I the only one that didn't skip over the fact that witch blades have armor AND fleshbane? Kinda puts a hole in your logic there....

You mean how a Witchblade can wound anything from a gretchin to a greater daemon, or slice up a Monolith or Land raider with ease... but can't break through the sweaty grime on a Catachans shirt?

---<Warning! Heavy sarcasm detected!>---
Nope, never bothered me at all
---<Warning! Sarcasm Overload! Shutting down!>---

GTKA666 wrote:
....am I the only one that didn't skip over the fact that witch blades have armor AND fleshbane? Kinda puts a hole in your logic there....

Maybe you are the only one that thinks that fleshbane has anything to do with armours at all (be it AV or AS).

 puma713 wrote:


Edit: the Dragon Riders are pretty exciting though. Players have been waiting on those for 4 Editions.

Wait, what?

one of the older rumours included Exodite dragonrider females with sniper rifles...
Awesome Idea, doesn't look like we'll get any for quite some time though... probably never

From advanced order mail sent mistakenly soon in my country (advanced order link leads to a blank page) :



It says : " So tall that it barely fits on the website. "

This monster will undoubtedly dominate the table...
Example of configuration here having not one, but two of what may be solar cannons. Meaning it would put out not three, but six STR 6 , AP 2 small blast templates.

Need a bigger website...

 puma713 wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
With all the models in the Eldar range that need updating and only the "Wraith_____" stuff actually being done, why aren't they just calling this "CODEX IYANDEN"? Sucks for you guys hoping for updated jetbikes.

QFT. Also for the people that loved Biel-Tan and other Aspect Warrior-centric armies, it seems like barely a new release. Aspect Warriors were always one of the most exciting and unique parts of the Eldar army and (so far, anyway) it seems that their models were largely ignored. Okay for some I guess, since they won't have to buy anything save the codex.

However, I guess GW could be setting themselves up for a series of Craftworld-based supplements and then waves matching each one. They will each include an across-the-board price hike, no doubt.

Edit: the Dragon Riders are pretty exciting though. Players have been waiting on those for 4 Editions.

I guess either GW are doing wave related releases and supplements (i.e. Biel Tan and Aspect Warriors, Saim Hann and Jetbikes) or they have decided that the models are available in Finecast so they don't need to re-release them in plastic as the units don't have any options not covered by the current models.

I also assume that GW want people to buy more Wraithguard hence the move to plastic and new Wraithblade unit type.

While I see how it could put off new Eldar players who don't want a Wraith army and don't like finecast, but as I have most of the aspects I am ever likely to need but don't have Wraithguard yet, this release is perfect for me!

See the Wraithknight looks good there, it's just the top half that looks terrible imo.

It's going to be a real challenge to magnetize these new units... The Wraith knight may work as it's just a bigger wraith lord... but the flyers... hmm... Especially those wings just behind the cockpit.

He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Absolutely the wraithguard are ace. There will be at least 10 guard and maybe 10 blades in my Eldar armies future (unless the blades suck in which case it will be 20 guard!).




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am hoping that the supplement release is what GW have planned for the eldar as it lets me space out my spending.

Wraiths now, Jetbikes with Saim Hann, Any aspects I want with Biel Tan and maybe Warlocks with Ulthwe.

I don't have the need for any more rangers (although if they make plastic I might grab some).

The wraith guard are perfect and exactly what I needed cos I always wanted at least one unit of ten in my army but could just never afford them or find enough second hand at a reasonable price.

And I for one will be building that Bright Stallion instea of the knight, while I love the knight and think its am awesome model and if I ever need something to stand in as a revenant ill get one I can't justify that cost as a mostly casual gamer.

Bring on the codex I say that's what I'm most looking forward to!

 rohansoldier wrote:
I guess either GW are doing wave related releases and supplements (i.e. Biel Tan and Aspect Warriors, Saim Hann and Jetbikes) or they have decided that the models are available in Finecast so they don't need to re-release them in plastic as the units don't have any options not covered by the current models.

I guess they don't know their own armies then...

Seeing how several aspects have options missing. Spinneret Rifle??

And still having nothing for Farseers and Warlocks on Jetbikes. Although with random powers, Seer Council might get hit hard.

This is going to be very expensive. WK is huge so the price is nothing to get too upset about really. The DA on the other hand is a bleh move on GWs part. Just bought 40 more of the buggers tho so wont really affect me.

I'm still holding out hope for a piece of wargear that lets you choose your powers, even if it's one of those "one per army" relic type things the 6th edition books have been so hot on. The universal masters of all things psychic shouldn't have to rely on luck to get the powers they want.

Hopefully the codex will have rules to support some of the other rumors we received which would then mean we really could see future waves including the plastic avatar, new jet bikes, plastic spiders, and a new transport.

Well the jetbike on the codex cover art seems to be single-engined like the prototype, if that's anything to go by. The new box with 3 of the current jetbikes could just be a way to attempt to get rid of the old ones.

Or Eldrad still knows ALL THE POWERS

I'm not that mad about the rolls, I've been playing with the Div/Tele tables exclusively since the nerf (I play mechdar mostly) and you adapt. I've betting you will be able to get up to at least ML3 easily and cheaply, so couple of Farseers and you'll get the powers you want.

Whats more interesting is that Destructor is now on one of the charts, as is Conceal. So does this mean that Warlocks will become fully fledged psychers? As an Ulthwé player, that makes me very, very happy.

I know its already been said in some form or another, but that giant list of goodies we saw (with model codes etc) seems very plausible now that the Iyanden supplement has been announced - meaning it is highly probable that each major Craftworld will get its own mini-release, seeing a batch of those listed items coming out periodically.

Whilst I already own 130+ Jetbikes, i've got 20 Corsairs just screaming for new Jetbikes as a conversion project

I would like to think they're doing craftworld releases....but that sounds like a lot of attention from GW to a xenos race.

 Redemption wrote:
Well the jetbike on the codex cover art seems to be single-engined like the prototype, if that's anything to go by. The new box with 3 of the current jetbikes could just be a way to attempt to get rid of the old ones.

Like the Tau Crisis suits. Yes, I could see this somewhere down the line.

Not to rehash the price issue, but there is another one we've been overlooking.

Jetbikes got cheaper.

Box of 3 for $40, vs. 3x$15=$45

Sure, it's only $5, and they are the old sculpts, but this is a big step for GW. In a time of one-click, no save bundles, we get a box set that save you a little if you buy more then one. Now if they discontinue the single boxes, you are stuck buying on lots of three. Which will suck if you want to boost that 3 man squad to 5. But still an overall lowering of cost per model.

Besides the price, it might be a marketing perception thing. When I look at bikes, I see each one is $15, and I need three minimum to field a unit. Ouch. Looking at a $40 box, I see it as a whole unit I can field, so kinda gloss over the cost per model.

On a semi-related note, has anyone seen pictures of the jetbike autarch? I've seen it pop up on a few of the lists, but not in pictures. As a Saim-Hann player who was warned by his FLGS to pre-order anything I might want, I'm kinda curious what it looks like. And how he plays for that mater. Last time my Eldar took the field, they weren't a HQ option...

A few of the old kits being repackaged have saved a few dollars. More due to GW knowing they absolutely will not fly in the higher backet, probably.

 Nevelon wrote:
On a semi-related note, has anyone seen pictures of the jetbike autarch? I've seen it pop up on a few of the lists, but not in pictures. As a Saim-Hann player who was warned by his FLGS to pre-order anything I might want, I'm kinda curious what it looks like. And how he plays for that mater. Last time my Eldar took the field, they weren't a HQ option...

It's probably the metal one redone as finecast, seeing as that one recently disappeared from the GW site:

Supposedly Games-Workshop is no longer doing waves, whilst the Iyanden supplement doesn't includes rules for units (like some would like for Black Templars for example); so I can't imagine we will see further Craftworld supplements and that Iyanden was chosen to help sell the new Wraith kits.

Nvs wrote:
Hopefully the codex will have rules to support some of the other rumors we received which would then mean we really could see future waves including the plastic avatar, new jet bikes, plastic spiders, and a new transport.

Unfortunately that seems unlikely. GW's newest strategy is to never put into a codex a unit and/or options that they don't currently have a model for. The theory is that this is an attempt to stifle further sales from companies like Chapter House who makes options for things that they don't. All it does is hurt the players and make their codices more bland, but not like that matters.

Just look at ALL the 6th ed books, not one has a unit that is currently not sold or that can be made from a similar kit (Although I do prefer having the models over not having them). Based on evidence so far they're also not interested in redoing models that people will actually want and would buy such as new Jetbikes, new crisis suits or new CSM models. Feels like we are stuck with only getting new units and there can be no creativity if a model can't be released in time which really sucks a lot of the fun from writing new books I imagine.

Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

 Redemption wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
On a semi-related note, has anyone seen pictures of the jetbike autarch? I've seen it pop up on a few of the lists, but not in pictures. As a Saim-Hann player who was warned by his FLGS to pre-order anything I might want, I'm kinda curious what it looks like. And how he plays for that mater. Last time my Eldar took the field, they weren't a HQ option...

It's probably the metal one redone as finecast, seeing as that one recently disappeared from the GW site:

Hopefully he can still take a reaper launcher while riding a jetbike.

 zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.

Sorry, I should rephrase - in terms of looks, these [wraithguard] are definitely the highlight of the launch. They look stunning

Hopefully they are decent because pretty models don't sell very well if they are useless in game. Most players can't just throw away money anymore.

Need less lychguard!

 Kirasu wrote:
Hopefully they are decent because pretty models don't sell very well if they are useless in game. Most players can't just throw away money anymore.

Need less lychguard!

An Iyanden army is really fluffy and I like its look. But at the competitive level, I'd hesitate to field such an army even with a Wraithknight. There are too many things out there that can kill it, like DE poisoned weapons.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.

Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

 Kirasu wrote:

Nvs wrote:
Hopefully the codex will have rules to support some of the other rumors we received which would then mean we really could see future waves including the plastic avatar, new jet bikes, plastic spiders, and a new transport.

Unfortunately that seems unlikely. GW's newest strategy is to never put into a codex a unit and/or options that they don't currently have a model for. The theory is that this is an attempt to stifle further sales from companies like Chapter House who makes options for things that they don't. All it does is hurt the players and make their codices more bland, but not like that matters.

It doesn;'t matter - people go out and buy it anyway.

 whigwam wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.

Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

As much as I wish this were true, eldar haven't placed top 10 in any GT so far in 2013.

 whigwam wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.

Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

I've never seen a wraithguard outside of its blister :(

From a theorycraft standpoint they didn't look like they could do much of anything. Especially as the meta turned Eldar more and more into biker gangs.

Hopefully their rules are improved dramatically as I'd love to start a wraithwing army.

I can see the Wraithknight's crotch shield being perhaps the most repurposed piece in awhile. It looks kind of stupid where it is (get a banner or something), but as an actual shield it would be pretty cool.

Nvs wrote:

 whigwam wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.

Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

I've never seen a wraithguard outside of its blister :(

From a theorycraft standpoint they didn't look like they could do much of anything. Especially as the meta turned Eldar more and more into biker gangs.

Hopefully their rules are improved dramatically as I'd love to start a wraithwing army.

You could let a full unit of WG walk towards the center of the battlefield holding it if possible. The enemy will fly circles around it and shoot it at leisure or ignore it. WG heavy armies tend to have a small model count. Fearlessness helps but the unit may get stuck in cc for a few rounds. I'll definitely stay away from a WG heavy army.

 Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

*Edit*
I should just stop posting at this time of night.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Nvs wrote:

 whigwam wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.

Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

I've never seen a wraithguard outside of its blister :(

From a theorycraft standpoint they didn't look like they could do much of anything. Especially as the meta turned Eldar more and more into biker gangs.

Hopefully their rules are improved dramatically as I'd love to start a wraithwing army.

You could let a full unit of WG walk towards the center of the battlefield holding it if possible. The enemy will fly circles around it and shoot it at leisure or ignore it. WG heavy armies tend to have a small model count. Fearlessness helps but the unit may get stuck in cc for a few rounds. I'll definitely stay away from a WG heavy army.

I'm the opposite - I love my wraithguard. But they only tend to come out at 3k+ as they are just too expensive points wise.
To be effective they need a spiritseer, 2 farseers and a wraithseer backing them up. With DE allies for the baron.

Then you get a T6, 3+, 2+ coversave, 2++ at the front for tanking, all re-rollable with a 4+fnp and hit and run to boot. 10 doomed, guided wraithcannon hurt what they shoot at.
In smaller games, they just aren't worth it atm.

This could all change a week on sat though

UltraPrime wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

That's the kind of statement that shows the absolute absurdity of that thought process. If GW did that they wouldn't be hurting CH as much as HURTING THEIR PLAYERS. It's as if the players haven't even crossed their minds.

You could let a full unit of WG walk towards the center of the battlefield holding it if possible. The enemy will fly circles around it and shoot it at leisure or ignore it. WG heavy armies tend to have a small model count. Fearlessness helps but the unit may get stuck in cc for a few rounds. I'll definitely stay away from a WG heavy army.

Or just charge them with anything that ignores armor.. or shoot them with heavy weapons since my entire problem with WG is that they don't *do* anything besides stand there. In early 5th edition WG were fine, but mid-late 5th they were garbage and even more so in 6th given their 12" range in a game that is shooting based. Fearless sucks since they can't go to ground

 Orik wrote:

Mime wrote:
Has anyone got an insight as to how the Crimson Hunters Exarch will work?

Will this mean we will need 3 flyers with one being upgradableto an Exarch? I woould assume that not every CH will be upgradable, but buying a Squadren could get expensive.

It could work like the fighta ace upgrade for the dakka fighter- you pay x amount of points for an upgrade to BS and the ability to strafing run everything (or maybe slightly different)

I would love this.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

whigwam wrote:Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

As much as I wish this were true, eldar haven't placed top 10 in any GT so far in 2013.

Two Eldar players made top 16 at Feast of Blades (only 1 was Eldar primary, I think he placed between 5th-8th overall). Granted, that was Oct 2012, but close enough. GT results aren't everything, anyway. At every event, there are dozens of competitive armies and good players who don't make it to the top tables. Eldar, being an old, poorly understood, rarely played army, are typically underrepresented at big events. When luck (of the dice, in pairings, scenarios, etc.) plays a big factor in winning out over hundreds of players, it means they're that much more unlikely to place highly. The fact that high-profile Eldar players like Greg or Reece Robbins were either a. not playing at major events, or b. not currently playing Eldar didn't help matters either.

I say Wraithguard are (were) competitive because I've seen, firsthand, a high-level competitive player trounce other equally competitive players with them. That is proof enough for me. The fact that they were competitive in 5th should be beyond dispute since back then WG did win at major events. In any case, wuesten's statement that WG 'never worked out well in competitive lists' is not accurate.

 whigwam wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.

Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.

MandalorynOranj wrote:

resipsa wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

Seriously, while I understand people being annoyed by the increases, you really can't say times are hard and this is an attack on your survival. You still have electricity, food, living space, and essentials right? Remember, Its toy soldiers in a game designed and produced by a company that intends to sell toy soldiers. If you can't come to grips with that, you should really step back from the table, breathe in, and find a more fulfilling, less emotionally charging experience for you.

These are first world problems, dawg.

Ok, see, nobody's saying that this is a life or death problem, but just because it's a "first world problem" doesn't make it a non-issue. I see it as a big problem that I may soon be priced out of 40k as it's something I love very much and a hobby that means a lot to me. So no, I won't die if the models get too expensive, but I'd still be losing something important, and not just losing it but pretty much having it taken away by the very company that makes it. Most other hobbies don't have this issue, like I'll never be priced out of reading or feel like publishing companies no longer want my business, so it sucks to get so invested and then have GW keep making it harder and harder to stick around.

Dude, while its an issue, it happens every sodding year, regardless of how much we complain or try to "occupy dakka." While I am still annoyed that my precious 20 man box of awesome guardsmen for 30 became one box of ten for 29, I know nothing will change the situation. If its an eldar rumors thread, its a rumors thread, lets be happy and stop griping that the pimp left his less attractive, older, but faithful women for the younger, nubile, more financially uninhibited ones who have parents that want to spend money to not have to deal with them. Hell, Demi left Bruce willis for Ashton Kutcher. We are Bruce Willis. End of story. We might get secondary droppings from our no longer interested plastic generating English masters, but we are no longer the prize pony.

Wilytank wrote:If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

Phil has done pretty good ones IMHO. I do agree re Warp Talons, but because of lack of grenades more than the idea behind the unit sucking. Maybe they should be able to assault ala vanguard vets... As for Mutilators, when I looked at the model pretty much seemed an easy way to make a "obliterator like" mold with pointy things attached. I don't see why they just didn't make world eater styled gladiator units dedicated to khorne in a heavy spot. I saw someone make a pretty sweet conversion with some Ogre Bulls for mutilators. I still wish they would have given chaos a variant equivalent to the crusader, since its an assault-ier army, as opposed to the maulerfiend, which doesn't really strike me as very great.

Spazamataz wrote:

 Mkvenner wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

I am hopeful. Phil LOVES Eldar so I anticipate they will get some love. But I agree, he has created some of the worst units in game (looking at you Mr.Mandrake).

Hah. There has been far worse than the Mandrake and it was not done by Phil. I could easily throw the Pyrovore out there or have we all just let that bug slip into memory?

You know, I've actually never seen a pyrovore on the field... Ever!!

I once saw a pyrovore used as a paperweight on a windy day.

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Random powers already confirms the nerf bat across the face of Farseers and Warlocks, they of course have to nerf Runes of Warding because Space Wolves have to remain on top for anti psykers.

All of this was going to happen regardless of anything else. Powers are now random for 6th (a massive point in its favour to me), and things like the Runes of Warding are less effective (see: Psychic Hoods). I'd make any bet you like that Space Wolf Rune Priests will be way toned down as well once it gets around to their turn.

I dislike random, but everyone is getting it, at least from what we know the primaris powers are decent. I wonder if the warlocks will have "bound" style powers

deathmagiks wrote:Found this on Warseer. Have not seen it here yet. THESE ARE JUST RUMORS:

-You can make Run moves in addition to shooting Shuriken weapons.

-Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6-- similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule.

-The Wraithknight starts at about 250 points and caps around 350, and towers over even the Tau Riptide. It's 9'' tall. The Wraithknight has the ability for its weapons to become twin-linked if it hits with a scatter laser it comes equipped with, even against airborne targets. It can shoot S9 and 10 small blasts, and has a total of four weapons on it-- you have a choice of several, including a huge wraithblade and a lance weapon.

- Wraithguard are cheaper both points-wise and financially speaking, and are now S5 and T6, and have the option to be equipped with Wraithblades as per the current Codex's in place of their guns, making them a dangerous close combat unit.

- Including a Spiritseer as a HQ choice allows you to bring Wraithguard as Troops.

- Expect Guardians to supplant Dire Avengers as the staple Troops choice-- they're very points efficient and with the buff to shuriken weapons, they should expect to be in a lot of competitive armies.

-The Fire Prism has been nerfed a bit-- basically, they want to drive people back towards Aspect Warrior and Wraith-heavy armies, rather than the mechanized Eldar army literally everyone and their brother played with the exact same list. Can't really say to what extent, but the purchasing advice was to "Not load up on them."

-The Avatar is "Definitely better."

-The Iyanden supplement is not a splash release, and will be normally available. Iyanden is strictly a fluff book, and contains no game rules. The rules to play a themed Iyanden army are found completely in Codex: Eldar. This is a move to appease people who want more fluff in books as well as people who would rather just have more game content with the fluff optional. This is an experiment in seeing how this works-- if it does well, expect Games Workshop to continue with the release of "chapter-specific" fluff supplements for their Codex releases.


Interesting read about the Iyanden book...

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Macok wrote:
Welcome to the world of S \ AP where great against armour can mean awful against armour.
Elder also have armour-bane weapons with AP-.
With system specifically created to distinguish one armour from the other you can't expect equal treatment to both.

I still don't forgive GW for getting rid of save modifiers and introducing the AP system. The AP system is basically like building imbalance right in to the core mechanics of a game.

Farseer_Kaiser wrote:Or Eldrad still knows ALL THE POWERS

I'm not that mad about the rolls, I've been playing with the Div/Tele tables exclusively since the nerf (I play mechdar mostly) and you adapt. I've betting you will be able to get up to at least ML3 easily and cheaply, so couple of Farseers and you'll get the powers you want.

Whats more interesting is that Destructor is now on one of the charts, as is Conceal. So does this mean that Warlocks will become fully fledged psychers? As an Ulthwé player, that makes me very, very happy.

I REALLY hope Ulthwe makes a return. My black guys have been sitting on a shelf a while now. If eldrad doesn't have whatever the 40K equivalent to Loremaster is, I'll be surprised. He's friggin Eldrad.

UltraPrime wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

This has actually been my prediction, the bike council never really existed until last codex. Before that it was the Ulthwe triple seer council that was the flavor of the month and Oh look, hey, it vanished. I bet bike councils vanish as well. Heck my archon can't ride a bike any more lol I would not be surprised in the slightest.

 whigwam wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

whigwam wrote:Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

As much as I wish this were true, eldar haven't placed top 10 in any GT so far in 2013.

Two Eldar players made top 16 at Feast of Blades (only 1 was Eldar primary, I think he placed between 5th-8th overall). Granted, that was Oct 2012, but close enough. GT results aren't everything, anyway. At every event, there are dozens of competitive armies and good players who don't make it to the top tables. Eldar, being an old, poorly understood, rarely played army, are typically underrepresented at big events. When luck (of the dice, in pairings, scenarios, etc.) plays a big factor in winning out over hundreds of players, it means they're that much more unlikely to place highly. The fact that high-profile Eldar players like Greg or Reece Robbins were either a. not playing at major events, or b. not currently playing Eldar didn't help matters either.

I say Wraithguard are (were) competitive because I've seen, firsthand, a high-level competitive player trounce other equally competitive players with them. That is proof enough for me. The fact that they were competitive in 5th should be beyond dispute since back then WG did win at major events. In any case, wuesten's statement that WG 'never worked out well in competitive lists' is not accurate.

I'm glad to see Wraithguard worked well for a player, but the fact remains that for their points value you can quite easily take many different options other than them that can do what they do better. Everybody can cite an example where one unit of underperforming models were taken by a 'great player' who then did well with them. This doesn't prove their use, it is simply an exception to the norm.

Wraithguard are terribly expensive for what they do, and in 5th and 6th Editions were simply not worth putting on the table in games under 2500pts.

I really hope that they resculpt the Eldar Guardians. I really hate those models.

JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.

And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

 Red Corsair wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

This has actually been my prediction, the bike council never really existed until last codex. Before that it was the Ulthwe triple seer council that was the flavor of the month and Oh look, hey, it vanished. I bet bike councils vanish as well. Heck my archon can't ride a bike any more lol I would not be surprised in the slightest.

Hasn't Fortune Seer Council existed since 3rd edition?

The reason I say 2013 is because in Oct 2012 we didn't have any new codices out for 6th Edition.

 Kirasu wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

That's the kind of statement that shows the absolute absurdity of that thought process. If GW did that they wouldn't be hurting CH as much as HURTING THEIR PLAYERS. It's as if the players haven't even crossed their minds.

I bash GW as much as anyone else here, but let's be fair: we don't know that GW has even engaged in that kind of thinking. That's just speculation from UltraPrime and Shandra.

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.

And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

Well maybe so but it is a moot point as of June when everything is changing. I am sure they go up in cost anyway making that unit idiotically over priced. If taking a spirit seer is required to make them score that deathstar got worse. However if the spirit seer makes 5 man squads scoring units then eldar can enjoy having small resilient scoring bodies for once.

I'm not a fan of Seer councils on jetbikes really, it feels very unfluffy. So I would like to see them toned down so a foot council is more viable.

resipsa wrote:

MandalorynOranj wrote:

resipsa wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

Seriously, while I understand people being annoyed by the increases, you really can't say times are hard and this is an attack on your survival. You still have electricity, food, living space, and essentials right? Remember, Its toy soldiers in a game designed and produced by a company that intends to sell toy soldiers. If you can't come to grips with that, you should really step back from the table, breathe in, and find a more fulfilling, less emotionally charging experience for you.

These are first world problems, dawg.

Ok, see, nobody's saying that this is a life or death problem, but just because it's a "first world problem" doesn't make it a non-issue. I see it as a big problem that I may soon be priced out of 40k as it's something I love very much and a hobby that means a lot to me. So no, I won't die if the models get too expensive, but I'd still be losing something important, and not just losing it but pretty much having it taken away by the very company that makes it. Most other hobbies don't have this issue, like I'll never be priced out of reading or feel like publishing companies no longer want my business, so it sucks to get so invested and then have GW keep making it harder and harder to stick around.

Dude, while its an issue, it happens every sodding year, regardless of how much we complain or try to "occupy dakka." While I am still annoyed that my precious 20 man box of awesome guardsmen for 30 became one box of ten for 29, I know nothing will change the situation. If its an eldar rumors thread, its a rumors thread, lets be happy and stop griping that the pimp left his less attractive, older, but faithful women for the younger, nubile, more financially uninhibited ones who have parents that want to spend money to not have to deal with them. Hell, Demi left Bruce willis for Ashton Kutcher. We are Bruce Willis. End of story. We might get secondary droppings from our no longer interested plastic generating English masters, but we are no longer the prize pony.

This is possibly the most absurd thing I've ever seen on Dakka. I am not GW's bitch. You are not GW's bitch. You have a choice in what you buy. The only reason you put up with arbitrary price increases is because you choose to put up with it. Don't try to silence players that are willing to complain (and willing to choose not to buy absurdly priced products) just because you aren't.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.

And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

Well maybe so but it is a moot point as of June when everything is changing. I am sure they go up in cost anyway making that unit idiotically over priced. If taking a spirit seer is required to make them score that deathstar got worse. However if the spirit seer makes 5 man squads scoring units then eldar can enjoy having small resilient scoring bodies for once.

The Spiritseer was already a requirement to make them troops iirc

So, has anyone heard any new rumours lately?

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.

And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

Well maybe so but it is a moot point as of June when everything is changing. I am sure they go up in cost anyway making that unit idiotically over priced. If taking a spirit seer is required to make them score that deathstar got worse. However if the spirit seer makes 5 man squads scoring units then eldar can enjoy having small resilient scoring bodies for once.

The Spiritseer was already a requirement to make them troops iirc

So, has anyone heard any new rumours lately?

Not in the current book, no. Currently the unit just needs to be 10 strong to be troops which is what I was refering too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 shamikebab wrote:
I'm not a fan of Seer councils on jetbikes really, it feels very unfluffy. So I would like to see them toned down so a foot council is more viable.

Yea I agree, people keep acting like they are jedi knights but that whole council is really just a bunch of old weathered and venerable scryers. Their main role is to guide the craftworld and it's precious cargo, not rush headlong into the fray, it's the aspect warriors job to keep them safe. Its the aspect warriors and temples that are supposed to be combat monsters. I feel bad that so many forget about the shining spears due to that bike council.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

This has actually been my prediction, the bike council never really existed until last codex. Before that it was the Ulthwe triple seer council that was the flavor of the month and Oh look, hey, it vanished. I bet bike councils vanish as well. Heck my archon can't ride a bike any more lol I would not be surprised in the slightest.

Hasn't Fortune Seer Council existed since 3rd edition?

The reason I say 2013 is because in Oct 2012 we didn't have any new codices out for 6th Edition.

4th to my recollection. 3rd I actually saw shining spears.

Can we only post in here if we have new rumours? I keep getting over excited only to find out that we're all just arguing again...:(

(and I know I'm guilty of this too...)

PredaKhaine wrote:
Can we only post in here if we have new rumours? I keep getting over excited only to find out that we're all just arguing again...:(

(and I know I'm guilty of this too...)

It's ok to discuss the rumors that are already up. Too some degree it's ok to speculate slightly though folks should at least have the majrity of their posts be relevant to the rumors. Most importantly be polite while "arguing"

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.

And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

He's convinced he's making the strongest choice available for him. People think differently, and therefore they play differently. There's no doubt that the squad you described is tough, but so is anything else you put half of your army's points into. You also can't ignore the benefit he had from surprising everyone with Wraithguard. A dedicated hand to hand unit will destroy that squad, and if the units were actually good enough to be part of the meta at large, people would have been prepared for it.

JB_Man wrote:A dedicated hand to hand unit will destroy that squad, and if the units were actually good enough to be part of the meta at large, people would have been prepared for it.

What dedicated HtH unit is going to destroy a 2++ rerollable, majority T6, Fearless, Hit-and-Run (on anything but a 6) unit...? I primarily play assault-oriented lists and I don't have anything that can handle that.

The units are good enough, but they have no serious presence in the meta because of the Eldar book's old age and complexity. Unlike most other popular competitive books, Eldar was challenging. The fact that WG were some of the most out of date, overpriced, hideous models in the game probably didn't help either.

You know, I hadn't really thought of it before, but maybe the reason there is such a huge push on Wraith_____ is because Phil moved forward in the lore and Eldar have been pushed to a point of activating more and more wraith units.

Pure speculation, but it would make the release make more sense in my mind.

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:A dedicated hand to hand unit will destroy that squad, and if the units were actually good enough to be part of the meta at large, people would have been prepared for it.

What dedicated HtH unit is going to destroy a 2++ rerollable, majority T6, Fearless, Hit-and-Run (on anything but a 6) unit...? I primarily play assault-oriented lists and I don't have anything that can handle that.

The units are good enough, but they have no serious presence in the meta because of the Eldar book's old age and complexity. Unlike most other popular competitive books, Eldar was challenging. The fact that WG were some of the most out of date, overpriced, hideous models in the game probably didn't help either.

Where are you getting the 2++? Baron's Shadowfield? Challenge that away. Oh, what happened to your 3+ rerollable? It was penetrated by AP2, like any scary HtH unit will probably have, unless you want to get Eldrad killed. Hit and Run all you want, you will lose every combat.

I run this very unit, because I really enjoy the concept of wraithguard. I even run a wraithseer for feel no pain to make it nastier. But I'm beyond the delusion that this squad is invincible. It's nasty, but it has some serious holes.

JB_Man wrote:Where are you getting the 2++? Baron's Shadowfield? Challenge that away. Oh, what happened to your 3+ rerollable? It was penetrated by AP2, like any scary HtH unit will probably have, unless you want to get Eldrad killed. Hit and Run all you want, you will lose every combat.

And why would Baron accept the challenge? Spiritseer/Maugan Ra/Eldrad will handle that.

I'm currently running Eldrad (with Invisibility and any Divination powers I can squeak in) in a squad of 10 WG with a Conceal warlock and a fortune Farseer. They get 2+ rerollable cover saves in the open and with luck I get Foreboding.

I WANT my opponent to shoot and assault them. I stick them in the open like a big chunk of bait that proceeds to remove whatever comes within 12" of them. It keeps the heat off my other scoring units which are not nearly as durable.

It's pricey, for sure, but I've only lost one game out of seven with them, against new Tau with markerlights ignoring cover saves, a rock to my scissors.

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:Where are you getting the 2++? Baron's Shadowfield? Challenge that away. Oh, what happened to your 3+ rerollable? It was penetrated by AP2, like any scary HtH unit will probably have, unless you want to get Eldrad killed. Hit and Run all you want, you will lose every combat.

And why would Baron accept the challenge? Spiritseer/Maugan Ra/Eldrad will handle that.

You want Eldrad or Maugan Ra to accept a challenge from a terminator sergeant and eat a S8 Powerfist? I sure as hell wouldn't.

nvm

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:Where are you getting the 2++? Baron's Shadowfield? Challenge that away. Oh, what happened to your 3+ rerollable? It was penetrated by AP2, like any scary HtH unit will probably have, unless you want to get Eldrad killed. Hit and Run all you want, you will lose every combat.

And why would Baron accept the challenge? Spiritseer/Maugan Ra/Eldrad will handle that.

This. My poor little spiritseer takes all the challenges, dying a horrible death for the betterment of his people. I don't run Baron, but it's a solid idea. Usually I pick up a corsair prince to deep strike those wraithguard to eliminate the range issue and get them closer to where I need them to be.

JB_Man wrote:You want Eldrad or Maugan Ra to accept a challenge from a terminator sergeant and eat a S8 Powerfist? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Considering Ra is an EW who will most likely kill the Pfist before it swings..? Yeah, I'll accept.

Or, like Gavin said, use the throw-away Spiritseer.

 whigwam wrote:
Considering Ra is an EW who will most likely kill the Pfist before it swings..? Yeah, I'll accept.

We're just going to have to disagree about the outcome, here. One thing that cannot be argued is that you've likely got close to half of your army tied up in one relatively small squad. I'm not saying it's a bad squad, it's just not the secret game-winner that no one is clever enough to run. There's a reason you don't see it that often.

Not in the current book, no. Currently the unit just needs to be 10 strong to be troops which is what I was refering too.

Actually, you needed to take 10 and then upgrade the warlock to a spiritseer for +6pts.

Maybe this is a longshot, but I'm thinking this:

The current release news shows new models for Iyanden and a supplement book. New Eldar flyer aspect which would make sense for Outcasts...and a new Outcast HQ. This means Alaitoc are pretty much 'covered' in the new Codex as well since their variation isn't as drastic.

However we have no new models for two distinctive craftworlds. Could it be that they won't release all Craftworlds but at least Swordwind and Wind Riders in seperate books or in the same?

Just a thought, it seems to fit with what all we know currently.

JB_Man wrote:We're just going to have to disagree about the outcome, here. One thing that cannot be argued is that you've likely got close to half of your army tied up in one relatively small squad. I'm not saying it's a bad squad, it's just not the secret game-winner that no one is clever enough to run. There's a reason you don't see it that often.

Taking half of an army's worth of points never stopped people from running a Draigowing. I've given several reasons why I think the unit's not often seen... But yeah, we should drop this as we're pretty far OT.

Back on-T, I'm really in disbelief that we're getting an Iyanden supplement while there's no sign of anything expanding CSM. I love Iyanden's fluff, the Wraith concept, etc. but I just can't believe there would be more demand for this than a supplement expanding Traitor Legions, Renegades, etc. I'm happy for Eldar, but for me, this really underlines what a missed opportunity the CSM update was.

Edited bbcaurese i cat'n tpye fro sthi

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Maybe this is a longshot, but I'm thinking this:

The current release news shows new models for Iyanden and a supplement book. New Eldar flyer aspect which would make sense for Outcasts...and a new Outcast HQ. This means Alaitoc are pretty much 'covered' in the new Codex as well since their variation isn't as drastic.

However we have no new models for two distinctive craftworlds. Could it be that they won't release all Craftworlds but at least Swordwind and Wind Riders in seperate books or in the same?

Just a thought, it seems to fit with what all we know currently.

You forgot Ulthwe buddy!

We're just going to have to disagree about the outcome, here. One thing that cannot be argued is that you've likely got close to half of your army tied up in one relatively small squad. I'm not saying it's a bad squad, it's just not the secret game-winner that no one is clever enough to run. There's a reason you don't see it that often.

Disagree all you want...I've run a Wraithguard wall with success as well. I didn't lose many games vs. some of the toughest 5th edition lists during that time. Now? With putting the Baron in there it eliminates their weakest trait they once had which was getting stuck in combats that would bog them down or possibly eliminate them. You have 4 characters to choose from for challenges. Sorry, but name me an elite assault unit that can match that? Durable and easy to absorb the initial charge...hit and run out...then shoot you with wraithcannons in the face..then charge you if anything is left.

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:You want Eldrad or Maugan Ra to accept a challenge from a terminator sergeant and eat a S8 Powerfist? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Considering Ra is an EW who will most likely kill the Pfist before it swings..? Yeah, I'll accept.

Also, how is that terminator sergeant having a powerfist?

Stupid double post...

Ugh, i hate going so off topic, but as a longtime runner of wraithguard:

A dedicated hand to hand unit will destroy that squad

Until Tau, this was basically the only thing that would 100% destroy a wraithguard squad, and that is the incredible power of wraithguard

They provide board control like no other unit in the codex. Your opponent must use his killiest h2h unit against your wraithguard. He has to - because they're troops, they're basically impervious to most shooting, and they suck in CC.

That means you know where his biggest baddest unit is going as soon as you put a WG unit on the table.

That spells victory - especially for eldar, who can concentrate fire like no one else.

Chaos and Tau really hit this strategy, so we'll see how the new codex deals with that.

 Crimson wrote:

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:You want Eldrad or Maugan Ra to accept a challenge from a terminator sergeant and eat a S8 Powerfist? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Considering Ra is an EW who will most likely kill the Pfist before it swings..? Yeah, I'll accept.

Also, how is that terminator sergeant having a powerfist?

Thammer/SS or nemesis daemonhammer setup though, is quite possible (and the only termie squad you want to hammer into that deathstar is Thammer/SS or Paladin anyway.

A dedicated hand to hand unit with a similar points cost will destroy that squad

I fixed that for you...LOL..and even then it's isn't guaranteed.

JB_Man wrote:

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:Where are you getting the 2++? Baron's Shadowfield? Challenge that away. Oh, what happened to your 3+ rerollable? It was penetrated by AP2, like any scary HtH unit will probably have, unless you want to get Eldrad killed. Hit and Run all you want, you will lose every combat.

And why would Baron accept the challenge? Spiritseer/Maugan Ra/Eldrad will handle that.

You want Eldrad or Maugan Ra to accept a challenge from a terminator sergeant and eat a S8 Powerfist? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Both Eldar characters have a higher initiative than a Terminator and will eventually kill him first. Eldrad is hard to remove with a 3+ rerollable inv. save and PLs are eternal warriors.

Double post for some bizzare reason.

I wonder what a WG deathstar used to do against any number of helldrakes. No matter where you place the characters you will receive a lot of ap3 hits.

Are you guys speculating over deathstars before the rules are even out? lol

For all we know Eldrad has been nerfed into the ground and is no longer viable.

 shamikebab wrote:
I'm not a fan of Seer councils on jetbikes really, it feels very unfluffy. So I would like to see them toned down so a foot council is more viable.

Oh please do that mr PK! I love the look and feel of footseers. Jetseers? Meh.

 BlueDagger wrote:
Are you guys speculating over deathstars before the rules are even out? lol

For all we know Eldrad has been nerfed into the ground and is no longer viable.

Eldrad got nerfed? The best psyker in the universe?

 JOHIRA wrote:

resipsa wrote:

MandalorynOranj wrote:

resipsa wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

Seriously, while I understand people being annoyed by the increases, you really can't say times are hard and this is an attack on your survival. You still have electricity, food, living space, and essentials right? Remember, Its toy soldiers in a game designed and produced by a company that intends to sell toy soldiers. If you can't come to grips with that, you should really step back from the table, breathe in, and find a more fulfilling, less emotionally charging experience for you.

These are first world problems, dawg.

Ok, see, nobody's saying that this is a life or death problem, but just because it's a "first world problem" doesn't make it a non-issue. I see it as a big problem that I may soon be priced out of 40k as it's something I love very much and a hobby that means a lot to me. So no, I won't die if the models get too expensive, but I'd still be losing something important, and not just losing it but pretty much having it taken away by the very company that makes it. Most other hobbies don't have this issue, like I'll never be priced out of reading or feel like publishing companies no longer want my business, so it sucks to get so invested and then have GW keep making it harder and harder to stick around.

Dude, while its an issue, it happens every sodding year, regardless of how much we complain or try to "occupy dakka." While I am still annoyed that my precious 20 man box of awesome guardsmen for 30 became one box of ten for 29, I know nothing will change the situation. If its an eldar rumors thread, its a rumors thread, lets be happy and stop griping that the pimp left his less attractive, older, but faithful women for the younger, nubile, more financially uninhibited ones who have parents that want to spend money to not have to deal with them. Hell, Demi left Bruce willis for Ashton Kutcher. We are Bruce Willis. End of story. We might get secondary droppings from our no longer interested plastic generating English masters, but we are no longer the prize pony.

This is possibly the most absurd thing I've ever seen on Dakka. I am not GW's bitch. You are not GW's bitch. You have a choice in what you buy. The only reason you put up with arbitrary price increases is because you choose to put up with it. Don't try to silence players that are willing to complain (and willing to choose not to buy absurdly priced products) just because you aren't.

With codicies being released about every month now, it's hard to for me to understand how each release can be met with the same level of shock and anger over prices. Nothing new gets said, and GW doesn't care. This isn't a free speech issue, it's about what's actually on-topic, useful and conversation-worthy, and the repetitive, directionless nature of most price complaint postings make them much closer to background noise than conversation, IMO.

deathmagiks wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Maybe this is a longshot, but I'm thinking this:

The current release news shows new models for Iyanden and a supplement book. New Eldar flyer aspect which would make sense for Outcasts...and a new Outcast HQ. This means Alaitoc are pretty much 'covered' in the new Codex as well since their variation isn't as drastic.

However we have no new models for two distinctive craftworlds. Could it be that they won't release all Craftworlds but at least Swordwind and Wind Riders in seperate books or in the same?

Just a thought, it seems to fit with what all we know currently.

You forgot Ulthwe buddy!

Hmm, I did. But that would be a fundamentally easy change to make via a Special Character as well. Pay crazy points for a special Farseer(Eldrad be gone in a physical sense, so it'd be somebody else) and Guardians along with their respective vehicles become BS4 or WS4 in the case of Storm Guardians.

Gawd...that is a scary prospect. That character would cost a fortune.

Maybe I am wrong and they would need a mini-Dex. LoL


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:
Are you guys speculating over deathstars before the rules are even out? lol

For all we know Eldrad has been nerfed into the ground and is no longer viable.

Eldrad got nerfed? The best psyker in the universe?

Wouldn't Eldrad effecitvely need to be a Wraithseer at this point since his soul is trapped in a Blackstone upon last fluff update on him....and the soulstones with part of his power are in the hands of his students?

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Wouldn't Eldrad effecitvely need to be a Wraithseer at this point since his soul is trapped in a Blackstone upon last fluff update on him....and the soulstones with part of his power are in the hands of his students?

The current state of a character does not always indicate what he appears as in the codex.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:
Are you guys speculating over deathstars before the rules are even out? lol

For all we know Eldrad has been nerfed into the ground and is no longer viable.

Eldrad got nerfed? The best psyker in the universe?

Yeah, cause GW are real sticklers for fluff=rules!

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

Wouldn't Eldrad effecitvely need to be a Wraithseer at this point since his soul is trapped in a Blackstone upon last fluff update on him....and the soulstones with part of his power are in the hands of his students?

They wouldn't do it that way. If anything it would be similar to how they dealt with Tycho. He had 2 forms being in the DC and as a Captain.

 Mkvenner wrote:

They wouldn't do it that way. If anything it would be similar to how they dealt with Tycho. He had 2 forms being in the DC and as a Captain.

And Tycho's even been dead since forever. He died in literally his first appearance.

I love the look of those fighters. They actually look like working aircraft, while still being distinctly unlike the aircraft we have today.

Given other recent army updates, do you think Forgeworld will make FAQ adjustments to any of their units or the Corsairs?

I was holding out hope against hope that somehow they updated the jetbikes but we just hadn't seen pics... WD now confirmed as old jetbikes...MT is sad.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I was holding out hope against hope that somehow they updated the jetbikes but we just hadn't seen pics... WD now confirmed as old jetbikes...MT is sad.

Yeah, that one was a big miss. Especially with all of the opportunities for Jetseers or a 'farseer conversion kit'.

Guess I'll still try to pick up DE bikes. :(

 pretre wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I was holding out hope against hope that somehow they updated the jetbikes but we just hadn't seen pics... WD now confirmed as old jetbikes...MT is sad.

Yeah, that one was a big miss. Especially with all of the opportunities for Jetseers or a 'farseer conversion kit'.

Guess I'll still try to pick up DE bikes. :(

The primary goal is getting all codices to 6th edition, and giving everybody a little something new. The play styles and army lists for each faction have changed ever so slightly, so some people are just going to have to learn to play with new stuff. You would have been spending money either way.

Besides, at the current release clip, all armies will have the hardback treatment in less than 18 months. With the plans to make 6th edition last a while, what else do you think they will release besides the occasional supplement? Updates to old models, of course. The codex launch isn't really built for lots of old model updates. It's to give veteran and new players something shiny. If all they would have gotten were updates to old models, there would have been just as many complaints (probably more) of not getting anything new to compete with the giant monsters and flyers the other armies are getting.

The updated Wraithguard are super sweet, by the way. Also love Illiac's model. That's a painter's delight, for sure.

 brassangel wrote:
If all Eldar would have gotten were updates to old models, there would have been just as many complaints (probably more) of not getting anything new to compete with the giants monsters and flyers the other armies are getting.

To be fair, there would have been complaints if GW sent Kirby out to give handies and a check for $50 to every eldar player that bought the Codex...

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

This has actually been my prediction, the bike council never really existed until last codex. Before that it was the Ulthwe triple seer council that was the flavor of the month and Oh look, hey, it vanished. I bet bike councils vanish as well. Heck my archon can't ride a bike any more lol I would not be surprised in the slightest.

Hasn't Fortune Seer Council existed since 3rd edition?

The reason I say 2013 is because in Oct 2012 we didn't have any new codices out for 6th Edition.

It has. Codex Craftworld Eldar introduced it. Really hoping they give guardians the option to be Black Guardians again (WS 4 for Storm squads and BS 4 for Defenders).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:You want Eldrad or Maugan Ra to accept a challenge from a terminator sergeant and eat a S8 Powerfist? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Considering Ra is an EW who will most likely kill the Pfist before it swings..? Yeah, I'll accept.

Or, like Gavin said, use the throw-away Spiritseer.

According to the rumors, most of the Phoenix Lords are losing EW.

I think some frustration derives from a reboxed unit implying it won't be updated for a long time. GW is all about minimizing expenses (see SG), and going through the logistical modifications for reboxed units; changing box production in China, changing warehousing and so on wouldn't make much sense if they're going to replace them in the near future. Same deal with Crisis suits for Tau; they could certainly use a revamp, but in their new reboxed form, yes, they're a touch cheaper, which is nice and unusual for GW, but they won't be updated for a long, long time.

I'd also imagine the DA change is going to annoy a lot of new Eldar players. Yes, GK squads are $35 for 5, but they can be turned into, what, 3 different kinds of units with a panopoly of wargear and customization options? I used the one box I got to make an Honour Guard, tweak Sternguard, replace the resin wobbly blades of my Vanguard, and add various bits to normal marines, with enough stuff to spare to give some more customization bits to a BA players. The Dire Avenger box will just be 5 dire avengers and some bits to make an Exarch. In terms of value, it's a lot lower; the individual units are cheaper in points and you need more of them to be effective than GK squads, and you can't turn them into anything but Dire Avengers. When so many aspects could benefit from being cheaper, more modular plastic, killing the one value purchase there was for a utilitarian unit undoubtedly stings.

Haven't seen this posted yet, So a little size comparison. The wraith knight isn't that far off Revenant titan size.

I was holding out hope against hope that somehow they updated the jetbikes but we just hadn't seen pics... WD now confirmed as old jetbikes...MT is sad.

Your avatar in this case is fitting...LOL.

Nice pic. The Riptide is rather small against the Wraithknight but the Revenant being twice as tall.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
From advanced order mail sent mistakenly soon in my country (advanced order link leads to a blank page) :

It says : " So tall that it barely fits on the website. "

Obviously meant as a joke, but ironically summarizes GW's understanding of the web...

T

Now that we are pretty sure that the Wraigthknight is a MC , the both makes me happy and worries me.

This addition seems to have seen the fall of a lot of vehicles and the rise of the MC. Which is cool, but makes me sad since I really like my Ork dredds and Kans which at this point are just about useless.

I really hope that the Orks get a MC and not some big stompy walker. I think the model will be cool, but the way vehicles get dropped in this addition would make me not want a armored unit as my BIG ork model. Although I really want a big Stompy Dredd. I own a stompa already but have never actually played a game with it.

I am curious if you will still need 10 WG to make it a troops choce or will 5 and a spirit seer be the minimum.

Everybody's talking about Iyanden and the Wraithknight.
Eldar needs to get the vehicles fixed. Serpents and Falcons are too expensive. Holofields are next to useless.

timd wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:
From advanced order mail sent mistakenly soon in my country (advanced order link leads to a blank page) :

It says : " So tall that it barely fits on the website. "

Obviously meant as a joke, but ironically summarizes GW's understanding of the web...

T

so true !

Strange double post...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Everybody's talking about Iyanden and the Wraithknight.
Eldar needs to get the vehicles fixed. Serpents and Falcons are too expensive. Holofields are next to useless.

Even if the point cost is decreased and the holofields become cool, it will not fix Eldar vehicles. The fundamental nerfs to Eldar skimmers comes from 6th edition. Not being able to disembark when moving over 6", not scoring from within vehicles, and vehicles being shreded in CC regardless of movement distance are all 6th ed changes not codex level changes. It would require a pile of specialty rules to reverse that damage and I'd bet a heap of money that GW didn't give two flips about mech Eldar with this update.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Everybody's talking about Iyanden and the Wraithknight.
Eldar needs to get the vehicles fixed. Serpents and Falcons are too expensive. Holofields are next to useless.

Everyone needs their vehicles fixed. Being glanced to death by weapons that cant even pen the vehicles armor is the one thing about the rules I hate.

I wish they would have removed glancing all together. Keep the penetration table and hull points. After so may pens the vehicle is a wreck, since you loose a HP after each pen. So a Vehicle can take X number of pens or just one with a good pen roll.

And just given gauss the rule on a 6 to pen remove a hull point so they would stay the same.

 whigwam wrote:

JB_Man wrote:We're just going to have to disagree about the outcome, here. One thing that cannot be argued is that you've likely got close to half of your army tied up in one relatively small squad. I'm not saying it's a bad squad, it's just not the secret game-winner that no one is clever enough to run. There's a reason you don't see it that often.

Taking half of an army's worth of points never stopped people from running a Draigowing. I've given several reasons why I think the unit's not often seen... But yeah, we should drop this as we're pretty far OT.

Back on-T, I'm really in disbelief that we're getting an Iyanden supplement while there's no sign of anything expanding CSM. I love Iyanden's fluff, the Wraith concept, etc. but I just can't believe there would be more demand for this than a supplement expanding Traitor Legions, Renegades, etc. I'm happy for Eldar, but for me, this really underlines what a missed opportunity the CSM update was.

Although if it's only fluff, scenarios and some craftworld environment type rules, will you be upset about the lack of the same for CSMs?

timd wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:
From advanced order mail sent mistakenly soon in my country (advanced order link leads to a blank page) :

It says : " So tall that it barely fits on the website. "

Obviously meant as a joke, but ironically summarizes what i believe is GW's understanding of the web...

T

Fixed that for you.

 BlueDagger wrote:
Strange double post...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Everybody's talking about Iyanden and the Wraithknight.
Eldar needs to get the vehicles fixed. Serpents and Falcons are too expensive. Holofields are next to useless.

Even if the point cost is decreased and the holofields become cool, it will not fix Eldar vehicles. The fundamental nerfs to Eldar skimmers comes from 6th edition. Not being able to disembark when moving over 6", not scoring from within vehicles, and vehicles being shreded in CC regardless of movement distance are all 6th ed changes not codex level changes. It would require a pile of specialty rules to reverse that damage and I'd bet a heap of money that GW didn't give two flips about mech Eldar with this update.

This could be exactly the reason why I would keep my Eldar shelved. The issues emerging from the new rule set are so big that it makes Eldar almost unplayed in a competitive setting.

New hints, take it with a grain of salt of course, this is from Raziel on 4chan :



greetings guys. i got a information sheet in my hands that all GW stores have been send to.

it contains "reasons to buy the new eldar releases"

the points are :
Codex Eldar :
- craftworld ships will be introduced
- new special rules for many eldar units. old nemesis (slaanesh) and battle trance (running and shooting)
-multiple exarch abilitys, options and equipment

Wraithknight (heavy support 240 points)
-Strong Profile (s10 T8 W6 AS 3+, Jumppack
- 2 heavy phantom lasers (23" S10 AP 2 instant death on wound rolls of 6)
- alternative equipment possible - for example close combat weapons with a 5+ invul and blind special rule or a S6 5" Blast with ap 2. with 5+ invul and blind special rule.

Somach Phantomhunter (may be spelled wrongly my pic is a bit blurry there) (fast attack 185 points)
-psyker with the terrify psychic power
- 2 blast weapons with ap 2
- enemy units within 12" have to reroll succesful ld tests.

crimson hunters (fast attack 160 points)
- aspect warriors with strong exarch upgrades
- may reroll armor pen rolls against flyers
-vector dancer

wraithguard /wraithblades (elite 160 points 5 models):
- strong profile with S5 T 6 as 3+
-wraithblades got 2 close combat weapons with ap 3 and +1 S or can get a 4+ invul with a single ap 2 weapon
-runeseer can mark targets, every wraith unit can reroll missed to hit rolls of 1 against marked targets.
-if you select a runeseer as HQ, they become troops

ilic nightspear (hq 140 points):
-alaitoc charactermodel that allows ranger units the pathfinder upgrade.
- has 9 special rules - one of them allows ranger units to infiltrate without the range restrictions to enemy units.
- bs 9 48" Sx ap 2 instant death on wound rolls of 6


Plus :


Raziel 05/23/13(Thu)12:02 No.24994003

other new releases for eldar : phantomseer, runeprophet and cards for psychic powers.:
- 3 different kinds of psykers (seer council, phantomseer, runeprophet)
-divination, telepathy and 2 own psychic disciplines: runes of battle and runes of fate (for rune prophet and runeseer)
- runes of battle have always 2 effects, for example granting shrouded or taking shrouded off the enemy unit.
-runes of fate : 4 warpcharges, 2 powers, very strong and offensive

that is all that is posted on the letter the GW stores had been send too. hope it gives some insight.

Codex Eldar :
- craftworld ships will be introduced
- new special rules for many eldar units. old nemesis (slaanesh) and battle trance (running and shooting)
-multiple exarch abilitys, options and equipment

Let's wait and see. Slaanesh should be preferred enemy.

Wraithknight (heavy support 240 points)
-Strong Profile (s10 T8 W6 AS 3+, Jumppack
- 2 heavy phantom lasers (23" S10 AP 2 instant death on wound rolls of 6)
- alternative equipment possible - for example close combat weapons with a 5+ invul and blind special rule or a S6 5" Blast with ap 2. with 5+ invul and blind special rule.

Jump pack, a fast moving killing machine.

Somach Phantomhunter (may be spelled wrongly my pic is a bit blurry there) (fast attack 185 points)
-psyker with the terrify psychic power
- 2 blast weapons with ap 2
- enemy units within 12" have to reroll succesful ld tests.

crimson hunters (fast attack 160 points)
- aspect warriors with strong exarch upgrades
- may reroll armor pen rolls against flyers
-vector dancer

New fast attack units? Not really needed.

wraithguard /wraithblades (elite 160 points 5 models):
- strong profile with S5 T 6 as 3+
-wraithblades got 2 close combat weapons with ap 3 and +1 S or can get a 4+ invul with a single ap 2 weapon
-runeseer can mark targets, every wraith unit can reroll missed to hit rolls of 1 against marked targets.
-if you select a runeseer as HQ, they become troops

They get a bit cheaper by 3 pts each. Even with a 4+ inv save they are not that useful.

ilic nightspear (hq 140 points):
-alaitoc charactermodel that allows ranger units the pathfinder upgrade.
- has 9 special rules - one of them allows ranger units to infiltrate without the range restrictions to enemy units.
- bs 9 48" Sx ap 2 instant death on wound rolls of 6

Where is the disruption table?

UltraPrime wrote:

timd wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:
From advanced order mail sent mistakenly soon in my country (advanced order link leads to a blank page) :

It says : " So tall that it barely fits on the website. "

Obviously meant as a joke, but ironically summarizes what i believe is GW's understanding of the web...

T

Fixed that for you.

Fix would work if was was just me that thought that, but the feeling is pretty common and very obvious. See the Facebook debacle.

Here are some rules for the new Eldar I heard today, enjoy

Wraithknight:

Monstrous creature, has a Jump pack, 3+ Save with option for 5++, S10, T8, 6 wounds, the wraithlances are S10 AP 2, 24", can have Scatterlaser or Starcannons on the shoulders

Illic Nightspear:

HQ, has a truckload of special rules(I think it was 9 in total), seems to be required to upgrade the Eldar scouts(English name escapes me at the moment, sorry), a unit of scouts he is joined to ignore the LoS restrictions for Infiltration, his rifle has 48" range, AP 2, ID on a to wound-roll of 6

Iyanden-Book:

print version will be available as well(direct only, and also English only like DftS), will contain extra psychic powers and warlord traits for Iyanden armies, the Iyanden army however can be built directly from C:Eldar, Limited Edition will also be available for this book

Flyers:

The fighter can reroll pens against other flyers and has Vector Dancer, I am not sure about weaponry, but has at least two S8 lances

Digital Products:

Here is one of the most interesting tidbits I heard today, the psychic cards sets will be available to download for Android, hopefully a sign of Codex releases for Android as well

 Malthor wrote:
Here are some rules for the new Eldar I heard today, enjoy

You mean that thing that has been posted twice on the last two pages?

 wuestenfux wrote:

crimson hunters (fast attack 160 points)
- aspect warriors with strong exarch upgrades
- may reroll armor pen rolls against flyers
- vector dancer

New fast attack units? Not really needed.

I think this is the flyer, right ? A previous info was that the new aircraft would be called crimson hunter with an exarch upgrade.
Consistent with vector dancer, which is a flyer skill IIRC.

Yes, both of the FA listed there are flyers. bomber is a psyker and the other is a aspect.

Re: bikes : Eh. How much can you really change outside of a redesign? I don't even think its a bundling value, its 3 bikes for the cost of.... three bikes. no?

Did you have to quote all of those posts to post 2 lines of response?

I'm starting to get happy for Illic.

That is not happy for my wallet.

A few things I was able to make out of the codex example pages in the white dwarf : a 120" range sniper rifle (that is either AP 3 or 5, really can't tell), a phenix-kind of item (when the character should be removed as a casualty, on a 2+ put a large blast that causes S4 aP5 hits. If it causes at least a wound (unsaved) the character stays alive with a wound (one use only). Also a piece of equipment that's probably for jetbikers only : allows you to sprint 48" , prohibiting you to do anything else that turn (as normal?) but allowing you to reroll failed cover saves. That one could work with the Laughing God mantle thingy.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm starting to get happy for Illic.

That is not happy for my wallet.

Not sure how to squeeze all these expensive units, Wraithknight and flyers, into a smaller Eldar army (1500 to 1750 pts).

@Resipsa About the bikes ,in euros at least you do get a slight "saving" compared to buying 3 separate jetbikes. Can't speak for other currencies...

 pretre wrote:
Did you have to quote all of those posts to post 2 lines of response?

Seconded! I was looking for some witty responses within, but alas...

And word on Wraithlord toughness?

 whitedragon wrote:
And word on Wraithlord toughness?

Are there any reasons to change it?

 pretre wrote:

 Malthor wrote:
Here are some rules for the new Eldar I heard today, enjoy

You mean that thing that has been posted twice on the last two pages?

Well, this happens when you get too excited before posting

I hope at least my good intentions are appreciated

According to the rumors, most of the Phoenix Lords are losing EW.

As long as they pick up better abilities, become cheaper, or an Invuln save...I'm okay with it. If not, then that is dumb.

 Shandara wrote:
Need a bigger website...

Maybe this means they'll finally re-upload the painting tutorials

I'm surprised that the flyers look good, probably the best looking ones GW has come out with since the Razorwing all those years ago.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Now that we are pretty sure that the Wraigthknight is a MC , the both makes me happy and worries me.

This addition seems to have seen the fall of a lot of vehicles and the rise of the MC. Which is cool, but makes me sad since I really like my Ork dredds and Kans which at this point are just about useless.

I really hope that the Orks get a MC and not some big stompy walker. I think the model will be cool, but the way vehicles get dropped in this addition would make me not want a armored unit as my BIG ork model. Although I really want a big Stompy Dredd. I own a stompa already but have never actually played a game with it.

I am curious if you will still need 10 WG to make it a troops choce or will 5 and a spirit seer be the minimum.

Just convert the WK into a very abnormally large attack squig and there you go! At least I know your going to love my WK Stacey .

-sean

gorgon wrote:

whigwam wrote:Back on-T, I'm really in disbelief that we're getting an Iyanden supplement while there's no sign of anything expanding CSM. I love Iyanden's fluff, the Wraith concept, etc. but I just can't believe there would be more demand for this than a supplement expanding Traitor Legions, Renegades, etc. I'm happy for Eldar, but for me, this really underlines what a missed opportunity the CSM update was.

Although if it's only fluff, scenarios and some craftworld environment type rules, will you be upset about the lack of the same for CSMs?

If that's all the Iyanden supplement ends up being, I'd be upset about both! Two missed opportunities: twice as bad.

 whitedragon wrote:
And word on Wraithlord toughness?

No. I've heard a lot of people saying Guard T6, Lord T7, Knight T8, but I think it's mostly just speculation at this phase.

 Kingsley wrote:

 whitedragon wrote:
And word on Wraithlord toughness?

No. I've heard a lot of people saying Guard T6, Lord T7, Knight T8, but I think it's mostly just speculation at this phase.

At least I didn't see anything in the WD that'd confirm that... didn't scan the battlereport properly though I'm afraid

 whigwam wrote:

gorgon wrote:

whigwam wrote:Back on-T, I'm really in disbelief that we're getting an Iyanden supplement while there's no sign of anything expanding CSM. I love Iyanden's fluff, the Wraith concept, etc. but I just can't believe there would be more demand for this than a supplement expanding Traitor Legions, Renegades, etc. I'm happy for Eldar, but for me, this really underlines what a missed opportunity the CSM update was.

Although if it's only fluff, scenarios and some craftworld environment type rules, will you be upset about the lack of the same for CSMs?

If that's all the Iyanden supplement ends up being, I'd be upset about both! Two missed opportunities: twice as bad.

There are warlord traits and psy powers as well (not that it makes it "worth it")

V1ND4LOO wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Need a bigger website...

Maybe this means they'll finally re-upload the painting tutorials

Not likely. They want you to buy their crappy painting books. You know, the ones where you follow the directions and somehow your models look nothing like the finished product...

Well, went out and bought a 10 pack of Dire Avengers before they are all gone...


Any rumors or hints about what is different about the limited edition codex? What has been different about limited edition books in the past?

They've had different cover art and a nice dustjacket/slipcover.

gravitywell wrote:
Well, went out and bought a 10 pack of Dire Avengers before they are all gone...
Any rumors or hints about what is different about the limited edition codex? What has been different about limited edition books in the past?

You're basically looking at +£25-30 for a different cover. Really not worth it at all, whatsoever.
It also seems each Ltd edition has gone up, being more than the previous one - as if they're trying to see how far they can push the cost before people will stop paying for a book with different cover art....

gravitywell wrote:
Well, went out and bought a 10 pack of Dire Avengers before they are all gone...


Any rumors or hints about what is different about the limited edition codex? What has been different about limited edition books in the past?

You're paying double the price for the prestige of having something most people won't have. I find it a complete waste, but who knows.. some like it.

I was really hoping for something elder that was 2+ armour, why the heck can't the wraithnight have this.... esp for 240pts, if the friggin riptide has it.... come on.. that is what makes the Wraithlord weak in the first place.... arg..... oh well

The limited editions are a waste of time and energy...

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I was really hoping for something elder that was 2+ armour, why the heck can't the wraithnight have this.... esp for 240pts, if the friggin riptide has it.... come on.. that is what makes the Wraithlord weak in the first place.... arg..... oh well

Eldar tend to have 3+ saves coupled with invuls or cover saves via holofields or some such. A 2+ save has never been a part of the Eldar army (just on phoenix lords for some reason).

If the PL's lose EW, then they better have invulns...bah.

 Kirasu wrote:
Eldar tend to have 3+ saves coupled with invuls or cover saves via holofields or some such. A 2+ save has never been a part of the Eldar army (just on phoenix lords for some reason).

Makes sense, actually.

Eldar have 4+ saves on half their aspects (Scorpions, Reapers, Spears, Spiders) and 3+ saves on the other half (Banshees, Avengers, Dragons, Hawks).
Exarchs and Autarchs all have 3+ saves because they have an improved/ancient Aspect armor.
Phoenix Lords have super-Exarch armor, the epitome of their class, and thus have a 2+ save.

But I agree that Eldar protection usually tends to rely on gimmicks aside from armor such as Veil of Tears, Flickerfields, Energy Fields, Fortune, etc.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I was really hoping for something elder that was 2+ armour, why the heck can't the wraithnight have this.... esp for 240pts, if the friggin riptide has it.... come on.. that is what makes the Wraithlord weak in the first place.... arg..... oh well

If they have the three upand an adjustable invulnerable, or a really decent one, I'd take a 3+ invuln over a 2+ armor any day of the week in todays meta.

Dangit, I desperately want more leaked rules. I wanna know if the clowns are still viable. In case they stay as they are now I at least hope they'll have some good synergy with the new HQ's and their wargear.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

According to the rumors, most of the Phoenix Lords are losing EW.

As long as they pick up better abilities, become cheaper, or an Invuln save...I'm okay with it. If not, then that is dumb.

I wonder what the pheonix court of kaine would look like point wise.... ah the lazy man's apocalypse formation.

Harlequins will be exactly the same as the DE codex, almost guaranteed.

 Popenfresh wrote:
Dangit, I desperately want more leaked rules. I wanna know if the clowns are still viable. In case they stay as they are now I at least hope they'll have some good synergy with the new HQ's and their wargear.

Rumor is that Harlequins are the same as the DE codex (which is the same as the current Eldar Codex).

However, there was a rumor a while back about being able to take a piece of wargear that makes your HQ model gain tons of benefits while losing the ability to be an IC. It has a Laughing God theme to it.
Effectively, it's a build-your-own Solitaire.

I've tried going back a few pages but you guys are adding so much fast. I just wanted to know if they have made any new Aspects or Phoenix Lords?

 Absolutionis wrote:
Rumor is that Harlequins are the same as the DE codex (which is the same as the current Eldar Codex).

However, there was a rumor a while back about being able to take a piece of wargear that makes your HQ model gain tons of benefits while losing the ability to be an IC. It has a Laughing God theme to it.
Effectively, it's a build-your-own Solitaire.

As nifty and fluffy as that sounds I'm really wondering how it will aid the rest of your army. Unless you can fit the character out to become an elfy miniature one man army. And reading the rumors Eldar will become completely devoid of EW makes it sound even more redundant.

 CDK wrote:
I've tried going back a few pages but you guys are adding so much fast. I just wanted to know if they have made any new Aspects or Phoenix Lords?

As far as what is known, no new Phoenix Lords. New Aspect Warriors are "Crimson Hunters". They're the pilots of the new aircraft.

 Popenfresh wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Rumor is that Harlequins are the same as the DE codex (which is the same as the current Eldar Codex).

However, there was a rumor a while back about being able to take a piece of wargear that makes your HQ model gain tons of benefits while losing the ability to be an IC. It has a Laughing God theme to it.
Effectively, it's a build-your-own Solitaire.

As nifty and fluffy as that sounds I'm really wondering how it will aid the rest of your army. Unless you can fit the character out to become an elfy miniature one man army. And reading the rumors Eldar will become completely devoid of EW makes it sound even more redundant.

The blood angels have mephiston, and that's what he is. While he doesn't do everything, and there are a few ways to shut him down, he's kinda mean. I could see a place for that in an Eldar army.

Picture of the limited edition:

In other words: For 30€ / 50$ you basically get a green cardboard jacket.
(PS: Pics were accidently send out early in France. And yes, pic is hosted on GW website )