Yes that is how I read it as well. The change in the FAQ was that the Codex no longer permits an Avenger Shuriken Catapult upgrade, but the Skyrunner had the Twin Shuriken on the bike. This Way the Skyrunner can use it as well.

{If they did not add it in the FAQ for that reason I would say the bike has the Twin Shuriken but the Autarch is 'not carrying' for the purpose of the relic. }Thankfully the intent is clear now.

How does Karandras and the Striking Scorpions Shadow Strike work? (+1 to hit a unit in cover)

Only in Shooting?

In Shooting and in HTH?

GW never clarified but my guess intent is it works like Ork Commandos rule which is one that makes more sense raw wise.

Should work for both melee and shooting.

Playing my first ITC tournament. Will only have 1 practice game beforehand with the finished list. I just finished the Magnets today.

I have only played a variation of the list twice. Still learning it.

So my practice game will be vs a Loyal 32 and 3 Knights.

What should I look for in this game?

What should I look out for in the Tournament?

I have not played Tau this edition, Orks, Tzeench or GSC.

I almost tabled a Dark Eldar Army with my previous list but he still won 18 CP to 14 CP (no ITC, it was Maelstrom). I got gak for cards and I forgot a lot of stuff and poor first turn....he offered me to use his dice lol.

What else should I watch out for.

My list:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reemule wrote:
How does Karandras and the Striking Scorpions Shadow Strike work? (+1 to hit a unit in cover)

Only in Shooting?

In Shooting and in HTH?

Keep in mind that the unit if within range get exploding attacks if the modified roll is 6+. With a target in cover you need to roll a 5 or better. With Enhance from a Warlock you could make that a 4+ die roll.

The same stacking abilities work best with Ulthwe's Black Guardian Strategem, Enhance, and Supreme Disdain. Give the Guardians Chainswords and they now get exploding attacks on a 4+ with all effects in play.

The elder have some nice tricks ... but like every edition you have to work to get the most out of it. Some are easy some are difficult. Find what you can master and like and focus on building up those combos.

What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got.

We are having a discussion in YMDC thread about Quicken/Restrain.

The short of it is that most players seem to halve the Move Characteristic then you add an advance roll on the affected unit.

Deeper reading of the FAQ and the Advance Rules seem to show that the Move Characteristic BECOMES a different VALUE after an Advance.

So how do you guys play it and what do you think?

Does Restrain work like this:
Unit move is 6 ...his advance is 6

Does Restrain give him a end result of 9 or 6?

Keep in mind that while you can get Scorps with exploding attacks on 4+ against units in cover, it's only a 5+ against units not in cover. But you're paying a lot more points for a 33%/50% increase in CC hits - you're typically better off taking more Scorpions instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got."

Everyone is. Except for other Knights, Slamginus, or Harlie Bikers w/Doom. There's another thread devoted to this, and Doom is the only Craftworld bit to show up in the discussion so far.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got.

You're gonna need mortal wounds to cut through the DW screen. Conventional firepower aint gonna do jack against an army that is putting every save against either a 3++ or a 2+.

 admironheart wrote:
We are having a discussion in YMDC thread about Quicken/Restrain.

The short of it is that most players seem to halve the Move Characteristic then you add an advance roll on the affected unit.

Deeper reading of the FAQ and the Advance Rules seem to show that the Move Characteristic BECOMES a different VALUE after an Advance.

So how do you guys play it and what do you think?

Does Restrain work like this:
Unit move is 6 ...his advance is 6

Does Restrain give him a end result of 9 or 6?

Personally, i see it as advancing changes your base move characteristic from x to x+y=z. As such, restrain would then half z rounding up (i think up anyway)

But, i can also see it being the other way around as it's less likely you'll end up with half an inch of movement somewhere along the line, and therefore simpler.

Sterling191 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got.

You're gonna need mortal wounds to cut through the DW screen. Conventional firepower aint gonna do jack against an army that is putting every save against either a 3++ or a 2+.

So
Basically even going as competitive as possible, seeing it put on the table shuts down the entire army. Loud and clear.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
What is our best way to deal with a guard army with Castellan and deathwatch as allies? I’m having trouble getting to his bubble wrapped Castellan as it tears through everything I’ve got.

You're gonna need mortal wounds to cut through the DW screen. Conventional firepower aint gonna do jack against an army that is putting every save against either a 3++ or a 2+.

So
Basically even going as competitive as possible, seeing it put on the table shuts down the entire army. Loud and clear.

Well, if you're going as competitive as possible, Harlequin Skyweavers w/ Haywire launchers are almost an auto-include to counter Knights. They will tear through a doomed Castellan like it's tissue paper.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Basically even going as competitive as possible, seeing it put on the table shuts down the entire army. Loud and clear.

Thats not accurate. You're just going to need new tactics.

DW + IK is almost certainly not going to have psyker support. And if they're running MSU or combat squadded Veteran teams, things like Executioner, and other sources of mortal wounds are gonna scythe right through them. Mortals are the achilles heel you need to exploit.

And if armies are spamming Storm Shields for 3++, Eldar now have a cheap answer to that: Scatter laser Spam

-

On your Castellan issue.

Make sure he isn’t using MSR unless he is a Questor Mechanicus. Also make sure he is using it only at the start of the phase. Then make sure your forcing him to ROS to burn CP. Next Make sure if he is Raven and if he is using Order of Companions he is spending the 3CP. Him using Deathwatch, and the Castellan is him being low on CP, and the Castellan is a CP hog. Make that cost him. A Castellan without CP to burn is a much different target. Get it below 14 wounds and No CP left, its about much less effective in the game.

 Galef wrote:
And if armies are spamming Storm Shields for 3++, Eldar now have a cheap answer to that: Scatter laser Spam

-

Weight of dice wins the day!

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Galef wrote:
And if armies are spamming Storm Shields for 3++, Eldar now have a cheap answer to that: Scatter laser Spam

-

Weight of dice wins the day!

You're gonna need a *lot* of dice though. If they're a smart DW player they'll have put Terminators in their Vet teams to soak AP0 weapons. If my napkin math is accurate, it's gonna take half a dozen unmoved scatbikes with an Autarch aura to punch through each Terminator. And that still leaves the remaining 9 Storm Shield lads in the team alive and kicking (and if in cover getting their own 2+ base armor save).

Sterling191 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Galef wrote:
And if armies are spamming Storm Shields for 3++, Eldar now have a cheap answer to that: Scatter laser Spam

-

Weight of dice wins the day!

You're gonna need a *lot* of dice though. If they're a smart DW player they'll have put Terminators in their Vet teams to soak AP0 weapons. If my napkin math is accurate, it's gonna take half a dozen unmoved scatbikes with an Autarch aura to punch through each Terminator. And that still leaves the remaining 9 Storm Shield lads in the team alive and kicking (and if in cover getting their own 2+ base armor save).

Agreed, but such is the problem when a unit is given cheap access to 3++ saves. Fortunately, those Vets will only have a 24" range, so they can easily be kited by CWE

 mokoshkana wrote:
Agreed, but such is the problem when a unit is given cheap access to 3++ saves. Fortunately, those Vets will only have a 24" range, so they can easily be kited by CWE

SIA will let them punch out to 30" with storm bolters at AP -1.

Sterling191 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:
Agreed, but such is the problem when a unit is given cheap access to 3++ saves. Fortunately, those Vets will only have a 24" range, so they can easily be kited by CWE

SIA will let them punch out to 30" with storm bolters at AP -1.

Forgot about the extended range, but CWE can still kite them. Force them to move ensures they don't get double tap, and potentially removes them from cover.

 mokoshkana wrote:


Forgot about the extended range, but CWE can still kite them. Force them to move ensures they don't get double tap, and potentially removes them from cover.

Not if you're trying to punch through them to get to a Castellan.

Some of these points aren't adding up.

If they have Stormbolters and Storm shields, charge them. They suck in HTH. If they have Thunder hammers and Storm shields, Stand back and keep firing. That's a huge amount of points. If they have a Terminator to soak low AP, thats a bunch of points.

And so now your talking 200-350 point unit that is the bubble wrap? Kill that unit, win that game.

Reemule wrote:


If they have Stormbolters and Storm shields, charge them. They suck in HTH.

A "basic" 10-man kill team is putting out a minimum of 21 S4 attacks in melee. If the player is expecting to use them as a screen, they're gonna include a VanVet, a Biker and a Termie to allow it to fall back from your attempt to tie it up, shoot it to pieces, and then charge.

This is of course assuming they dont simply add a Frag Cannon Vet to melt your squishy T3 elves during overwatch. And thats before the other 30 or so SIA shots.

Reemule wrote:


If they have a Terminator to soak low AP, thats a bunch of points.

DW Terminators clock in at 31 points. It's less than nearly every heavy weapon toting Veteran post Chapter Approved.

Reemule wrote:

And so now your talking 200-350 point unit that is the bubble wrap? Kill that unit, win that game.

Thats precisely the point, without dedicated Mortal Wounds or serious firepower, you're not killing an entrenched DW team. And the firepower you divert to do so is by definition being pulled away from other high priority targets.

'A "basic" 10-man kill team is putting out a minimum of 21 S4 attacks in melee.'
I can't believe I'm saying this, but this looks like a job for Striking Scorpions!

MEQ with 2A each vs Striking Scorpions is slightly in the MEQs favor, per model. But you have twice as many Scorpions. So you'd win with your chainswords (AP0 is just fine vs their 3+/3++). Mandiblasters are just added fun!

Now, Scorpions aren't competitive, but they could do this job for you.

200-350 points of bubblewrap means you have 18-30 Striking Scorpions to do so with. Not an auto-win, but a hilarious matchup; moreso if they hide in *cover* for the 2+Sv.

Not a serious answer, but I hope we see people do it.

As for kiting, that works if you stick to our longer-range options (tanks and such), but most of our infantry are 12" range. Not much of our book outranges 30".

I feel there might be an excess of hyperbole in your post.

Certainly no one is expecting a 5 point solution to a 300 point problem, but lets not pretend that a unit of marines in cover is the final nail in all efforts Eldar related coffin.

I also love the notion that CWE is doomed because it can't beat Soup by itself. Beat soup at its own game and add in a nice chunk of Skyweavers, which makes that castellan go away. Then the next turn, those S4 Ap-1 shots will remove some Vets.

You know, I'm really enjoying how some folks have taken "hey, you dont want to smash your face against Deathwatch Vet teams and assume you're gonna take em out in short order" to somehow mean "Oh no, you're all doooooooooomed".

But by all means, please continue to assume I'm being hyperbolic by pointing out that Deathwatch have tools to be extremely efficient screens.

A tough army comprised of units with great invuln saves (he's talking about basically 3++s across the board) and a plethera of small arms fire (SIA SBs on DW) is probably one of the harder counters to CWE.

That said, I still think CWE win that matchup.

Sterling191 wrote:
You know, I'm really enjoying how some folks have taken "hey, you dont want to smash your face against Deathwatch Vet teams and assume you're gonna take em out in short order" to somehow mean "Oh no, you're all doooooooooomed".

But by all means, please continue to assume I'm being hyperbolic by pointing out that Deathwatch have tools to be extremely efficient screens.

You keep countering suggestions to deal with them, and you're not providing any positive feedback for CWE. So I'm not really getting the vibe that you think CWE can win. If I'm wrong, then by all means please let me know.

It's a very good target for Smite+Executioner combo. An average of 6 MW is nice against that unit. Since it's a screen it should be up front.


Edit: changed Doom -> Smite. My bad.

I was about to say...you could also just smite that unit? Like, we don't smite spam like TS does, but we're hardly garbage at it.

A melee wraithknight is a pretty good answer as well. So are wraithblades. So is jinx. Guardian bomb + jinx or doom or both....that unit is now probably pretty much crippled or dead.

So, the “main” DW vet squad is now 5 SB/SS Vets, 1 Bikers, 1 VVet and 3 Terminators with SBs and cheap power weapons.

If it’s the screen, the best counter to this ~280 point unit is smite, executioner, jinx and Warlock mini smite. The reason why the mini smite and standard smite are so good, is because it allows you to setup executioner. The DW player has the choice of either killing the VVet or a SB/SS Vet or put a wound onto a terminator or the bike. If they do that, then you’re going to get the 2d3 MWs from executioner. If they don’t do that, then you’re killing off the stormshields. It’s still 14 wounds to get through, but, it becomes significantly easier to do once you remove 7 of the wounds (on average) before the shooting phase.

Also, I still think Shuriken Cannons are better than Scatter Lasers in this instance. Any 6’s to wound are at -3. You can make the DW player take these first to try and drop one or two stormshields, or force their hand and start taking wounds on the terminators, meaning all the 0ap wounds have move chance of breaking through to the SS vets.

I play DW as my main faction. If you're facing a Castalan/DW army, and you haven't brought the means to bring down the knight on T1 (likely), why can't jinx/doom be used on the 10-man squad instead? it's a 250pt unit that you can't afford to ignore, and jinx is a perfect fit. A big Guardian blob on its own will pretty much wipe the much-vaunted 10-man vets squad, because 4+ ain't nothing.

 grouchoben wrote:
I play DW as my main faction. If you're facing a Castalan/DW army, and you haven't brought the means to bring down the knight on T1 (likely), why can't jinx/doom be used on the 10-man squad instead? it's a 250pt unit that you can't afford to ignore, and jinx is a perfect fit. A big Guardian blob on its own will pretty much wipe the much-vaunted 10-man vets squad, because 4+ ain't nothing.

Keep in mind that a Guardian webway bomb is gonna be vulnerable to Auspex Scan counterfire.

Weidekuh wrote:
It's a very good target for Doom+Executioner combo. An average of 6 MW is nice against that unit. Since it's a screen it should be up front.

You mean Smite + Executioner? Doom won't benefit MW output in anyway...

Sterling191 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
I play DW as my main faction. If you're facing a Castalan/DW army, and you haven't brought the means to bring down the knight on T1 (likely), why can't jinx/doom be used on the 10-man squad instead? it's a 250pt unit that you can't afford to ignore, and jinx is a perfect fit. A big Guardian blob on its own will pretty much wipe the much-vaunted 10-man vets squad, because 4+ ain't nothing.

Keep in mind that a Guardian webway bomb is gonna be vulnerable to Auspex Scan counterfire.

True, but Jink + Doom and any unit/units that can mass Scatter laser or Shuirken fire into the unit should drop them pretty fast, so WW bombing might not even be needed.
I am actually THRILLED that DW have this kind of build as it is 1 more common unit that my Windriders are actually good against.

While WRs aren't "meta" units at the moment, they are decent and the more "meta" units that they can be good against, they closer to good the WRs become.
It's like everyone is bringing a bunch of Rocks, so my Paper unit can be viable again

-

Good point, but it was just an example off the top of my head. Scatbikes would be much better suited to the role I suppose. The point being Jinx ruins DW Vet squads, and while it's clearly often wanted for other tasks, if a big 10 man squad is threatening or boardblocking, it will bring them down.

I've been mixing Shuricannons (still the best option for Advancing Battle Focused WRs) and Scatter lasers in my WR units 2/1. It gives some tactical choice to either sit back and pew pew, or move up. The Scats being cheaper and having more restrictions (wanting to be stationary) makes them good first casualties. Once the Scats are dead, or only 1 left, I have no issues just Advancing to get into ideal positions

So against mixed DW Vets, it should do well to "mess" with their wound allocation as some saves will be AP0, some will be AP-3. Throw in Doom and/or Jinx and profit.

And the more I think about it, DW Vets with SS are probably one of the few units that WRs do better against than Spears, and that makes me happy.

-

Sterling191 wrote:
Keep in mind that a Guardian webway bomb is gonna be vulnerable to Auspex Scan counterfire.

Making your opponent burn 2CP means that is 2 less CP that can be used to save the knight. Might be worth the price of admission depending on how the board looks at the time of reinforcements deployment.

I'm starting to consider a 2K force with each of the 6 Phoenix Lords, and 10 odd of each aspect warrior in 1-2 squads.

Starting to think it might be viable with a few quirks that people wouldn't see coming.

Mostly due to how some Phoenix Lords can really contribute in in the new meta game.

Any advice for facing Death Guard? I had half a game last night before my toddler woke up crying, but my opponent totally had it in the bag anyway!

Now, my opponent played well (and I really didn’t), and I won’t make the same placement errors next time round... BUT what I can’t get my head around is how to deal with “Disgustingly Resilience”. Even mortal would spam doesn't really cut it. Any thoughts?

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
Now, my opponent played well (and I really didn’t), and I won’t make the same placement errors next time round... BUT what I can’t get my head around is how to deal with “Disgustingly Resilience”. Even mortal would spam doesn't really cut it. Any thoughts?

Weapons that do multiple damage help against DR

-

Depends on what he ran? Plague Burst Crawlers it's honestly probably best to ignore. They are savagely resilient for their points. Definitely want to murder mortarian; jynx and doom with the usual volleys work just fine for that. The terminators are painfully slow; kiting them is to your advantage.

So I am kinda newbish when it comes to 8th ed armies I do not own since I don't play much.

What units should I watch out for and try to kill in a tournament. 1 or 2 per list:

Tau:

Chaos Marines: Khorne

Death Guard

Necrons

Harlequins

Titans

Adeptus Custodes

Demons: Tzench

Thousand Sons

and finally

Orks

Thanks. If you want to commentary and tell me why and how to kill them...that's cool too!!

I am fairly familiar with the other armies as I have a lot of them.

This doesn't work well, as there are some large variety in Eldar forces.

What I'd recommend is take your list and compare it to the top 5 lists from the latest tourny and see if you think you would have much chance against it. Spikey bits is pretty good at having some of the latests top lists.

I have a tactical choice to make for my army. I'm stuck between which unit is more effective a unit of 5 fire dragons with an exarch armed with a fire pike or 3 support weapons (2 shadow weavers and 1 d cannon). The first is 144 points the other is 147 and the 3 point difference isn't a problem.

The rest of the list is Asurman, Jain Zar, 3 units of Avengers, 1 unit of banshees, 6 wind riders with scatter lasers, an outrider unit of a shadow seer with 6 skyweavers. My FLGS plays 1250pt games.

Which would you choose and why?

I have a tactical choice to make for my army. I'm stuck between which unit is more effective a unit of 5 fire dragons with an exarch armed with a fire pike or 3 support weapons (2 shadow weavers and 1 d cannon). The first is 144 points the other is 147 and the 3 point difference isn't a problem.

The rest of the list is Asurman, Jain Zar, 3 units of Avengers, 1 unit of banshees, 6 wind riders with scatter lasers, an outrider unit of a shadow seer with 6 skyweavers. My FLGS plays 1250pt games.

Which would you choose and why?

Don't you think you have enough anti-knight with the Skyweavers?

Presumably you are going with the rule of cool rather than the rule of good as competitively you've picked most of the worst eldar units.

That being said the support weapons will out perform your Fire Dragons. The Fire Dragons without an effective delivery system will likely not do anything most games.

If you haven't purchased anything yet I would look at dropping at least Jain Zar and the Howling banshees and look at things like a Wave Serpent, Dark Reapers, Farseer, Warlock, Hemlock, Shining Spears. And possibly changing the bikes to Catapults.

Although I don't have any experience with my list I respectfully disagree with your analysis.

I'm planning on using Sam Haim as my planet. Given that the wind riders can move and fire the scatter lasers at no penalty makes, to me, a very good combo. The RoF of the catapult with the Str of the cannon and a better range than either of them. Also with the extended charge range of the banshees and Jain Zair I can get across the board with a little better than average rolling (move 8 + 3.5 then charge 7 +3)equals 21" and if I want to try to go farther than average I get a reroll on my charge. And I never have to worry about cover fire.

According to the math in the how to counter a knight thread it should only take 6 sky weavers to bring a knight down. if I need more that's what the support weapons/fire dragons are for.

According to the math in the how to counter a knight thread it should only take 6 sky weavers to bring a knight down. if I need more that's what the support weapons/fire dragons are for.

Sorry. What I meant was with your already 6 skyweavers you have enough so do you need the fire dragons.

banshees and Jain Zai

The problem with these guys is first if your opponent breaths on them they die and even if you get them in combat with pretty much anything other than tau they are just not going to have that big of an impact.

wind riders

There is an argument to be had for either weapons on the Wind Riders. I don't really see that as the problem with your army

I may be able to replace the dragons/support weapons with a Wave Serpent but it may be a little too much in points. Assuming that I drop the dragons and support weapons what do you suggest that cost around the 145 point mark?

Honestly Shining Spears have never let me down. Even with the slight points increase. A warlock with Quicken will give you an maximum 54" Charge range. They hit like trucks and can actually be quite hard to kill.

Having both JainZar and Asurmen is gonna hurt you. Asurmen is at least decent (4+ invun on your DA) but still not in the realms of great.

I'm surprised that you are going Sam Haim and not taking any spears and no Autorach Skyrunner with the Novalance (Which would crush Asurmen) and actaully get into combat.

And you are missing an entire Phase which is where Eldar excel in. The Psychic phase. I don't think you'd win many games against a mid level opponent with Eldar without the Psychic Phase.

If your army isn't full of shenanigans and you are playing Eldar personally I think you are doing them wrong.

I general I agree and at the 2000 point level I do have many of the things you mention. The problem is my FLGS plays at the 1250 level. I want to have the staying power that Asurman gives me especially with avengers. I want the ability to tie up shooting units which is what the banshees allow. I want heavy fire power (the skyweavers) and I'd love to have a psyker phase but I just don't have the points. I suppose that I could take the 145 points that I have from the dragons and put a farseer in there or maybe a warlock and unit of spears.

The farseer is one of the best units in any codex, I'd try to find room.

There isn't anything your HB and JainZar can do that Shining Spears + Farseer Skyruuner wouldn't do better.

There is a lot that the spears + Farseer can do that your HB + JainZar cant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW Also the Farseer will take your Skyweavers into God tier. Knights = Auto dead.

So let me tell you about DOOM. It is the most powerful thing in the Eldar toolbox.

I faced 3 Knights and the loyal 32. I lost 20 to 13 by turn 4 but if we had time to play 2 more turns I would have tabled him.

DOOM was the killer. He even had a great first turn as I only did 1 wound to a knight on my turn 1. Turn 2 left his main knight with 2 wounds. Turn 3 killed that and another knight
The Fire Dragons hit all 5 times. All 5 wounded and he failed 4 saves. They did some serious hurt.
Turn 3 his last knight died and all he had left were 4 squads and 3 little characters.

The Fire Dragons were almost evaporated after they torched the 2nd Knight. THAT will happen every time.....They need a vehicle.

Even though my opponent won he was sorely dejected the last 2 rounds as all his cool toys were no more. His heart was not in the game. Now I need to improve my first turn so that I do more than 5 wounds. AKKKK

Overall I was very happy to take down 3 knights in 3 turns.
Would NEVER happen without Doom.

Jinx and the Nova Lance were a huge help.
Banshee Masks on the Autarchs and in my Banshee squad made sure that there was no Overwatch on my charges.We hit the titans hard...and you have to do that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me get this right:

No more Fire and Fade into a transport.

We can have multiple units and characters in a Wave Serpent

What happened to Tactical Reserves? Can we set up our Rangers on the First Turn before the Battle or must they wait til turn 2 or 3?

The Same with War Walkers?

My Wave Serpent got hit with a Titan weapon that did 10 damage and d3 mortal wounds. The Serpent Shield drops the 10 down to a 9. Does it have any effect on the Mortal wounds since it is damage from shooting?

Does the Beta Bolter Rule apply to each and every Bolter or just some units ??(ex: Hurricane bolters on a land raider crusader)

Thanks...wish me luck tomorrow.

1. You can, unless they got out of the transport earlier that turn I think.

2. Yes

3. Gone, just boring deepstrike now. Thanks GW.

4. Yep, same as above but must be deployed near a board edge or something.

5. Mortal wounds aren't a damage resut, just wounds applied individually to a unit. So the shield has no effect on them.

6. Only ASTARTES bolter weapons with rapid fire. So the LR Crusader would get it because it has the right keyword. A Sisters of Battle tank would not get it for example.

Thanks for the advice re: Death Guard folks! Targeting singl-wound dudes with multi-wound weapons makes sense on reflection - forces multiple “Disgustingly Resilient “ rolls per model. I like it!

During the game in question I made the (wrong!) desicion to target the Blight Drones with my Vyper-mounted Starcannons & Farseer Skyrunner, when I *should* have picked on the 5-man Death Guard units instead to deny my opponent scoring units (and get “first strike”). Oh well! If we ever get a rematch I’ll bring the same list but choose better targets.

Another player in our group plays GSC, and I’d like to challenge him to a 1000pt game (small because:TODDLER) once the new codex drops. Should I max out on Shuriken to murderate the masses, or should I aim to go more balanced? Any place for a unit of Wraithblades/Wraithguard?

Thanks all!

NuhJuhKuh wrote:


Another player in our group plays GSC, and I’d like to challenge him to a 1000pt game (small because:TODDLER) once the new codex drops. Should I max out on Shuriken to murderate the masses, or should I aim to go more balanced? Any place for a unit of Wraithblades/Wraithguard?

I would take a big unit of Scatterlasers/Shuriken cannons on War Walkers or something and a Farseer, GSC will be the new deepstrike spammers so it will be handy to be able to decimate one of his key units as it arrives with the Forewarned strat. GSC have always been hard hitters but they're fragile if you can punch first.

I always rate Wraithguard with D Scythes, should be especially effective vs GSC I think with such close range fighting. Wraithblades should do fine also. I wouldnt take wraithcannons though.

Ooh, never used “Forwarned” before! Seems like as good an opportunity as any

Threw this together this morning. Highest strength guns are the Starcannon, and I couldn’t find room for any Wraiths unfortunately, but might have some game? FWIW Skyrunner goes with Vypers, Autarch gangs out with Vauls battery:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [60 PL, 1000pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

+ HQ +

Autarch [4 PL, 77pts]: Forceshield, Star Glaive

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 137pts]: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Troops +

Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 105pts]: 10x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Aeldari Missile Launcher

Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 105pts]: 10x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Aeldari Missile Launcher

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Heavy Support +

Support Weapons [9 PL, 111pts]
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver

War Walkers [12 PL, 180pts]
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon
. War Walker: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

++ Total: [60 PL, 1000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Do not underestimate the scatter lasers.

I Doomed a 40 boyz unit and wiped it out in 1 round. Same could work with GSC


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did well today except round 2 when I was about as dumb as you can get. Won the other 2 matches, but against 3 titans with chain weapons I moved most of my units into 1st turn charge range...They asked me why? I said I was just dumb. I did kill all 3 titans but the Salamander allies mopped up the Victory Points for a good spanking. He said I should have won the game except for whatever I was thinking when I made that goof.

I'm not too concerned about Knight/DW/Loyal 32. The DW vets will generally be in deep strike so you have the first turn to do some damage. If on the table, I'd expect Guard to form the outer ring, DW inside that (to avoid the smite train) and knight behind that. If smart, the DW will be placed so that you can't get within 24" of knight without getting within 12" of them so they can use the anti-eldar strat. Skyweaver bikes are still great vs DW sqds and knights alike so are great allied into an CWE list. Jinx/Doom on DW sqd and then hit with haywire bikes....is typically 5-6 wounds on the DW sqd. Hot them with other elements and it should be gone.

I did not get to play the winner of our tournament. Apparently he is rated 15 or something like that at ITC.

I glanced at his list. It was like 30 pink horrors, 2 units of 28 plabue bearers each, 2 daemon princes of Tzeench and some other stuff that I'm not familiar with.

How would you fight an army like that?

 admironheart wrote:
I did not get to play the winner of our tournament. Apparently he is rated 15 or something like that at ITC.

I glanced at his list. It was like 30 pink horrors, 2 units of 28 plabue bearers each, 2 daemon princes of Tzeench and some other stuff that I'm not familiar with.

How would you fight an army like that?

Not an Eldar player but I’m curious what the list was. What you named is less than 1100 points though so some important bits are probably missing.

I know he had like a character/champion and about 8 chaos terminators.and some sorcerors...Probably more but I cannot recal.
Now I think he Had an Unlcean One and perhaps another Nurgle demon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and how he referenced it ....I don't think that was his competitive list.....but look up top players in ITC, Look for a Nurgle guy and I'm sure you could find something close.

I just know that big mobs of anything are hard to take down. Horrors that split and Plague Bearers are just rouch....Especially if your worried about the big monsters while the rest claim all the objectives. From his list I think you have a hard time scoring points as he only has a limited number of things to target....so you would have to go for board/objective control and that is going to be hard with 100+ guys that don't drop too easily.

Hello all. So I've been a long time chaos player but found myself looking for a new army. Ended up choosing Eldar and picked up 2 of the previous starter boxes. But this has left me needing to pick some troops to fill a battalion.

At the moment have farseer skyr, warlock skyr, 6 wind riders, 2 fire prisms. About 750 pts.

Was thinking at least 1 unit ranger (how big is good?). But from there lost with balancing boots on the ground to keep bikes from bring only target. Plus how to getting troops up fields to claim other objectives

Any thoughts would be great.

A unit of rangers is fine and one or two units is a perfect and cheap pick up. You could also add in a unit or 2 of guardian defenders in 20 man blobs and put them in the Webway to shock your opponent, or to storm guardians with fusion guns in wave serpeants.

Dire Avengers are cheap Battalion filler. a unit is 55 points.

Might have just found out how Sean Nayden's Yncarne list works... in a YouTube comment of all places. Turns out it's pretty format-specific.

MUST READ ABOUT WEIRD YNARI LIST!! I dont want to blow up anyone's spot but I did have the pleasure of playing Sean Nayden with a very VERY similar list to the one you cant figure out this past weekend and it plays very weird indeed.... Basically ALL the characters sit back hopefully in a magic box with the 20 guardians around them so they cant be targeted. They are in the box so all the non LOS needing infantry that can shoot them just goes on the turrets and they fill the whole box so they cant be charged.... The two wych squads go to deepstrike with the spears and rangers and the last wych squad just chills with the characters or sits on an objective. The rangers will come down turn 2 for a secondary defensive screen and objective sitter. the Yncare pops up if need be the disrupt and the wychs and spears come down and tri tip screening units to stay safe from shooting and just be annoying and the bikes just kill everything... it is a list that tries to nullify the shooting phase as much as possible and come back late game... very weird i had trouble playing against it with knight and guard for sure but im no pro and Im sure this has other strats against other armies... it was dirty... HOPE YOU SEE THIS MAN ITS SUPPER COOL.

don't know what he means by "can't be charged", that isn't a thing I don't believe. You will simply fight through the walls vs the Guardians.....and probably chew through them easily. That's my understanding anyway. i think there was an issue last year with model placement and walls, but was addressed with just can discount the wall and strike at contents.

Reminds me of a Necron list I heard about that apparently won an event using 3 Necron Seraptek Heavy Constructs that would just sit on buildings and shoot all game while being immune to charges. I don't know exactly how this would work except judging by the model I could maybe see players abusing model placement rules by sitting the body on top of a building and leaving the legs dangling over. That would guarantee no room for 2nd floor charges while also keeping it relatively easy to balance the model on different building shapes/sizes.

There are definitely some silly things we can do with terrain when it comes to GW's ruleset. I don't have enough experience with ITC magic boxes to comment there.

 bullyboy wrote:
don't know what he means by "can't be charged", that isn't a thing I don't believe. You will simply fight through the walls vs the Guardians.....and probably chew through them easily. That's my understanding anyway. i think there was an issue last year with model placement and walls, but was addressed with just can discount the wall and strike at contents.

This is probably that ITC nonsense where there are buildings that completely block LOS.


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 slave.entity wrote:
There are definitely some silly things we can do with terrain when it comes to GW's ruleset. I don't have enough experience with ITC magic boxes to comment there.

This is not GW's rule set. ITC has its own made up rule that there have to be pieces of terrain that COMPLETELY block LOS. Can't see into or out of the building.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
don't know what he means by "can't be charged", that isn't a thing I don't believe. You will simply fight through the walls vs the Guardians.....and probably chew through them easily. That's my understanding anyway. i think there was an issue last year with model placement and walls, but was addressed with just can discount the wall and strike at contents.

This is probably that ITC nonsense where there are buildings that completely block LOS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 slave.entity wrote:
There are definitely some silly things we can do with terrain when it comes to GW's ruleset. I don't have enough experience with ITC magic boxes to comment there.

This is not GW's rule set. ITC has its own made up rule that there have to be pieces of terrain that COMPLETELY block LOS. Can't see into or out of the building.

Can't see in them, but I don't think there are any reasons they can't be charged, even if no physical contact possible.

 bullyboy wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
don't know what he means by "can't be charged", that isn't a thing I don't believe. You will simply fight through the walls vs the Guardians.....and probably chew through them easily. That's my understanding anyway. i think there was an issue last year with model placement and walls, but was addressed with just can discount the wall and strike at contents.

This is probably that ITC nonsense where there are buildings that completely block LOS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 slave.entity wrote:
There are definitely some silly things we can do with terrain when it comes to GW's ruleset. I don't have enough experience with ITC magic boxes to comment there.

This is not GW's rule set. ITC has its own made up rule that there have to be pieces of terrain that COMPLETELY block LOS. Can't see into or out of the building.

Can't see in them, but I don't think there are any reasons they can't be charged, even if no physical contact possible.

ITC brought out a new ruling for their enclosed buildings. Essentially, if you can make it into 1” range you make the charge, even if the model charging can’t physically fit, due to a wall. Apparently, you just count as being “in the wall” of all intent and purpose. The physical model just remains on the other side of the wall.

So, even if the building is full, or they’ve left a gap that is too small for your models bases, you can still complete the charge and fight.

It’s a bit dumb, but, then again, the whole enclosed ruins thing is a bit dumb imo.

I'm curious why ITC went out of their way to create their magic bunker rules. It's cool to see Yncarne winning tournaments but I'd definitely be a little disappointed if the list only works due to magic bunkers.

 slave.entity wrote:
I'm curious why ITC went out of their way to create their magic bunker rules. It's cool to see Yncarne winning tournaments but I'd definitely be a little disappointed if the list only works due to magic bunkers.

Simply because they make terrain that represents enclosed buildings, and have publicly said that they’ve invested too much time and money into their development and creation, to either drop or change them, so, instead the rules change for them.

Kdash wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
I'm curious why ITC went out of their way to create their magic bunker rules. It's cool to see Yncarne winning tournaments but I'd definitely be a little disappointed if the list only works due to magic bunkers.

Simply because they make terrain that represents enclosed buildings, and have publicly said that they’ve invested too much time and money into their development and creation, to either drop or change them, so, instead the rules change for them.

To be fair, slightly more robust rules for holding buildings would be terrific for 40k, and would be something that really helps differentiate infantry from everything else. I really like the ITC rules albeit up to the point people try gaming them soooooo hard.

One of the rare things I do like more about Bolt Action though is holding proper buildings.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Kdash wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
I'm curious why ITC went out of their way to create their magic bunker rules. It's cool to see Yncarne winning tournaments but I'd definitely be a little disappointed if the list only works due to magic bunkers.

Simply because they make terrain that represents enclosed buildings, and have publicly said that they’ve invested too much time and money into their development and creation, to either drop or change them, so, instead the rules change for them.

To be fair, slightly more robust rules for holding buildings would be terrific for 40k, and would be something that really helps differentiate infantry from everything else. I really like the ITC rules albeit up to the point people try gaming them soooooo hard.

One of the rare things I do like more about Bolt Action though is holding proper buildings.

Terrain Guidelines
In ITC events using any missions, the following modification to Ruins type terrain should be used: Ruins: For this event, the bottom level walls of all ruins are considered to block LoS even if they do not actually do so. This means existing openings in them such as those created by windows, doors, bullet holes, etc. block LoS. This rule does not mean the players create walls where none existed. If in doubt as to where to define these barriers, clarify with your opponent before the game begins.

That garbage is why I will not play ITC. If they want their terrain to function as complete LOS blocking terrain, it WYSIWYG, then fine. But don't make all ruins LOS blocking. That's just dumb. Also forcing that onto every table gives armies with the ability to shoot regardless of LOS a massive advantage.

What does a Footdar army with an Avatar or Asurmen look like?

Do you go with Bieltan?

Even though it is Footdar do you use 5 or 6 Wave Serpents to deliver your cargo of Dire Avengers +?

 mokoshkana wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Kdash wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
I'm curious why ITC went out of their way to create their magic bunker rules. It's cool to see Yncarne winning tournaments but I'd definitely be a little disappointed if the list only works due to magic bunkers.

Simply because they make terrain that represents enclosed buildings, and have publicly said that they’ve invested too much time and money into their development and creation, to either drop or change them, so, instead the rules change for them.

To be fair, slightly more robust rules for holding buildings would be terrific for 40k, and would be something that really helps differentiate infantry from everything else. I really like the ITC rules albeit up to the point people try gaming them soooooo hard.

One of the rare things I do like more about Bolt Action though is holding proper buildings.

Terrain Guidelines
In ITC events using any missions, the following modification to Ruins type terrain should be used: Ruins: For this event, the bottom level walls of all ruins are considered to block LoS even if they do not actually do so. This means existing openings in them such as those created by windows, doors, bullet holes, etc. block LoS. This rule does not mean the players create walls where none existed. If in doubt as to where to define these barriers, clarify with your opponent before the game begins.

That garbage is why I will not play ITC. If they want their terrain to function as complete LOS blocking terrain, it WYSIWYG, then fine. But don't make all ruins LOS blocking. That's just dumb. Also forcing that onto every table gives armies with the ability to shoot regardless of LOS a massive advantage.

Totally disagree, and I'm playing here. The game is much better with LOS blocking terrain, you should have to move to compete. The tables/rules have been great so far.

Edit: Most people (apparently) have no problem with ruins being LOS blocking, that's not the issue. The ITC's stance on terrain has been really good for gameplay in my group, much better than GW and its skeleton scaffolding 'terrain' kits at the very least.

But if a unit can be positioned so it is completely immune to being assaulted (and/or shot?) while in a ruin as some have said, then there's a problem.

 admironheart wrote:
What does a Footdar army with an Avatar or Asurmen look like?

Do you go with Bieltan?

Even though it is Footdar do you use 5 or 6 Wave Serpents to deliver your cargo of Dire Avengers +?

It's not hyper competitive but it works well. Especially with the avatar's morale buff allowing for maxed out units which helps with buffs etc.
Personally I think serpents are a bit expensive for transporting avengers, throwing some fire dragons inside makes more sense to me. Or you can just go entirely infantry based with webway strike.
Biel tan is definitely the way to go, avengers take down screens better than most, free re-roll ones makes them even better.

Guys, I am back into the game for 8th edition for the first time. I played and stopped a little after beginning of seventh. I decided to delve back into the game with eldar. I currently own 40 guardians (w/ 4 Shuriken cannons/4 bright lances) 40 storm guardians (8 have fusions guns) 15 dire avengers, avatar, Eldrad, 3 warlocks, Spiritseer, 10 Wraithblade (axes and shields) 4 wave serpeants, 1 heavy weapon platform (not built so can make into anything). What’s the most competitive build I can probably do? Obviously running elthwe. I know, alaitoc is supreme, but I love the lore, love Eldrad and like to be different.

Eldrad is good. Sometimes you may want a Farseer. Sometimes you may want both. I would pick up a Generic Farseer and an Autarch of some manner. The free rerolls are almost as good as Doom.

Doom is your MVP in every game.

General question- a few pages back I was told that Banshees just weren't worth the points. In a 2000pt game what would you use to fill the elite slots required by a brigade detachment or do you never build to the brigade level?

I was wondering if an asurmen + avatar lead footdar list was viable working around a core of maybe 30 dire avengers and I'd toss in some other aspects though I haven't figured out just quite yet what.

Leo, I have banshees in my list almost every game.

I have played too many 'flamer' type deamon and other lists that just wreck my hth units.

I normally have a Wraithlord, AutarchSkyrunner, or Wraithblades. If you do not have a sacrificial WaveSerpent then I find that my hard hitting units will sometimes run up agains things like Knights or above that will chew them up on overwatch.

I like the Index Banshee mask or the actual unit of Banshees to prevent overwatch. Anything else is just a bonus.

KEEP in mind that the Exarch will make the enemy less of a threat to the Banshees with War Shout. I forget that so often.

So what wacky list is Sean Nayden beating everyone at LVO with this time?

well Ynarri are getting the hate, as no one is really singling out any craftworld units like last year.

It's the same Yncarne list he's been running. I posted about it a couple of days ago. Hopefully we get to see it on stream today.

 slave.entity wrote:
Might have just found out how Sean Nayden's Yncarne list works... in a YouTube comment of all places. Turns out it's pretty format-specific.

MUST READ ABOUT WEIRD YNARI LIST!! I dont want to blow up anyone's spot but I did have the pleasure of playing Sean Nayden with a very VERY similar list to the one you cant figure out this past weekend and it plays very weird indeed.... Basically ALL the characters sit back hopefully in a magic box with the 20 guardians around them so they cant be targeted. They are in the box so all the non LOS needing infantry that can shoot them just goes on the turrets and they fill the whole box so they cant be charged.... The two wych squads go to deepstrike with the spears and rangers and the last wych squad just chills with the characters or sits on an objective. The rangers will come down turn 2 for a secondary defensive screen and objective sitter. the Yncare pops up if need be the disrupt and the wychs and spears come down and tri tip screening units to stay safe from shooting and just be annoying and the bikes just kill everything... it is a list that tries to nullify the shooting phase as much as possible and come back late game... very weird i had trouble playing against it with knight and guard for sure but im no pro and Im sure this has other strats against other armies... it was dirty... HOPE YOU SEE THIS MAN ITS SUPPER COOL.

Nobody has a model by model/equipment breakdown of his list though huh? I can’t find it anywhere online.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Nobody has a model by model/equipment breakdown of his list though huh? I can’t find it anywhere online.

https://i.imgur.com/pgbunxU.png

 slave.entity wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Nobody has a model by model/equipment breakdown of his list though huh? I can’t find it anywhere online.

https://i.imgur.com/pgbunxU.png

You, my friend, are very kind! Exalt!

 slave.entity wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Nobody has a model by model/equipment breakdown of his list though huh? I can’t find it anywhere online.

https://i.imgur.com/pgbunxU.png

Thanks for sharing. Why does he have Biel Tan on his Shining Spears?

 Sarigar wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Nobody has a model by model/equipment breakdown of his list though huh? I can’t find it anywhere online.

https://i.imgur.com/pgbunxU.png

Thanks for sharing. Why does he have Biel Tan on his Shining Spears?

He uses the Court of the Young King strat on them and webways them, so, out of deepstrike they have a 7+ charge instead of 9. Also, the re-roll 1’s helps on the mass Shuriken Catapult shots.

Kdash wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Nobody has a model by model/equipment breakdown of his list though huh? I can’t find it anywhere online.

https://i.imgur.com/pgbunxU.png

Thanks for sharing. Why does he have Biel Tan on his Shining Spears?

He uses the Court of the Young King strat on them and webways them, so, out of deepstrike they have a 7+ charge instead of 9. Also, the re-roll 1’s helps on the mass Shuriken Catapult shots.

What rerolls? That's mixed detachment with multiple craftworlds. Does Ynnari change something? Because other races can't have multiple traits inside detachment and benefit. So unless ynnari does something funky with that it would be just strategem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mokoshkana wrote:
[
That garbage is why I will not play ITC. If they want their terrain to function as complete LOS blocking terrain, it WYSIWYG, then fine. But don't make all ruins LOS blocking. That's just dumb. Also forcing that onto every table gives armies with the ability to shoot regardless of LOS a massive advantage.

So alternative is spend lot more money...There shouldn't be ruins that DON'T block LOS. 40k REQUIRES lots of LOS blocking to work rather than just be gunline's wet dream. If you can draw LOS at will you have bad terrain. Shooting long lines should be exception.

You don't get re-roll ones or any trait in a mixed/Ynnari detachment. You do however get access to stratagems as normal.

Yeah forget the re-roll 1's comment. It slipped in there whilst thinking about something else!

Kdash wrote:
Yeah forget the re-roll 1's comment. It slipped in there whilst thinking about something else!

They do get re-roll 1 but just for the fight phase due the Stratagem, I think that's what you confused with Biel Tan trait.

It's worth to remember that RAW any Craftworld unit inside an Ynnari detachment still can draw an Specific Craftworld keywords, wich grants them the ability to share transport with other detachments and even use specific Stratagems (Guardians can take advantage of Ulthwe stratagem to get +1 for hit rolls for example if using webway bomb )

Has 10 always been the largest an Aspect unit could be?

In 2nd it was anywhere from 2 to 7

I think in 3rd they introduced the 5 min.

Dark Reapers, Shining Spears and Crimson Hunters are still less than 5.

But has at any point Dire Avengers or someone else able to get bigger than 10?

 admironheart wrote:
Has 10 always been the largest an Aspect unit could be?

In 2nd it was anywhere from 2 to 7

I think in 3rd they introduced the 5 min.

Dark Reapers, Shining Spears and Crimson Hunters are still less than 5.

But has at any point Dire Avengers or someone else able to get bigger than 10?

I don't think any Aspect warrior has been > 10. Only Guardian Units from my recollection

"Dark Reapers, Shining Spears and Crimson Hunters are still less than 5. "

You can have 10man Reapers and 9man Spears. Although the game would be better if those two maxxed out at 5mans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or you meant the minimums, not the maximums. I'm dumb. Min 3 for Spears/Reapers, 1 for CH (it's a vehicle).

tneva82 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:
[
That garbage is why I will not play ITC. If they want their terrain to function as complete LOS blocking terrain, it WYSIWYG, then fine. But don't make all ruins LOS blocking. That's just dumb. Also forcing that onto every table gives armies with the ability to shoot regardless of LOS a massive advantage.

So alternative is spend lot more money...There shouldn't be ruins that DON'T block LOS. 40k REQUIRES lots of LOS blocking to work rather than just be gunline's wet dream. If you can draw LOS at will you have bad terrain. Shooting long lines should be exception.

Sure, but the magic box gimmick is dumb. If your army is capable of stacking shots that ignore LOS, then the magic box really only protects you...

The real fix is something like the urban assault rules that make cover meaningful, and provide negatives to hit (although this tacked onto unit/army negatives will cause griping in its own right).

Greetings everyone!

I am here to ask help from you, more experienced players when it comes to Eldar armies.

I would like advice on army building for 1k pts army purely with a purpose to win tournaments. Here where I live our local tourmanets are 1k points and Lords of War and FW units are forbidden, besides that everything else is allowed. I mainly play Dark Angels and for fun play they are ok, but for tournaments, nope. That is why I decided to start an Eldar army, but since I have 0 experience with them I need your help and guidance.

I already have some models, 20 Guardians with 2 platforms, 10 Dire Avengers, 2 Wave Serpents, 2 Vypers, 3 old metal Rangers that I proxy as Dark Reapers, Autarch and Farseer.

The way I play so far, I use Alaitoc CW, I take the Autarch and I give him Index Reaper Launcher, Banshee Mask and trait to target characters, for the Farseer I give him Doom and Guide. My Wave Serpents are equipped with Bright Lances and Shuricannons, I don't play the Vypers at all. I give Shuricannons to the platforma of the Guardians and my Dire Avengees Exarch has two catapults, I play 2 squads of Guardians and one squad of DA to be able to take Battalion for the CP. I proxy Dark Reapers with 3 metal Ranger models and two DA models. I ussualy deploy only two WS, to gain that +1 on the initiative roll, in one I have the Reapers, Avengers, Autarch and Farseer, in the other I have one of the Guardian squads, I put the other Guardians in Webway.

4 games in, lost ine to Ravenguard, this was my first game, won one against Astra Militarum, lost one to Renegade Guard from FW (not a tournament game) and managed to grab a tie with AdMech. I think it is worth to mention that we never play ITC here.

What should I change? What should I buy next? How to build an army for such competitive play, 1k pts? I think it is worth to mention that I have already ordered Wraithguard squad and 5 Dark Reapers. Problems that I have noticed, when I play on objectives my models tend to die fast, T3 and all, ussualy 4+ or 5+ armour, the WS protect my units but eventually they must go out to grab objectives. High T models are also problem, the Bright Lances are great with the crystal matrix, but ussualy I face some invul saves too, CC also tends to be troublesome.

Every advice that you can give me is most welcome. Thank you.

1000 points and you just want to win?

Battalion Detachment Ynnari.

Cat Lady + Eldrad
1 Large Shining Spear Squad
1 Large Dark Reaper Squad
3 units of Storm Guardians

Keeping either the spears or Guardians in reserve depending on the mission.

Win

do not underestimate doom with loads of shuriken fire.

When rolling to wound on 5's or 6's and then rerolling all the fails again...you get a large number of 6's for wounds and all of those are at -3 AP saves....so they do chew thru stuff.

NexAddo wrote:
1000 points and you just want to win?

Battalion Detachment Ynnari.

Cat Lady + Eldrad
1 Large Shining Spear Squad
1 Large Dark Reaper Squad
3 units of Storm Guardians

Keeping either the spears or Guardians in reserve depending on the mission.

Win

Hahahaha. Straight to the point eh? I like it.

Also I'll add. I hope you have plenty of friends you're willing to lose by running that list.

Hahaha, interesting list! Thank you! No worries about loosing friends, they too play very competitive lists.

So, Ynnari eh? I'll have to look in to them, noone here plays them, in a matter of fact I am the only Eldar player in my community as it is for now. What exactly makes the Ynnari so strong, what should I pay attention to? Sorry for all this noob questions and thank you for the answers.

Act Twice from SfD (and Word of Phoenix).

Ynnari is certainly the strongest. Make sure your meta is that competitive before investing.

Yes Ynnari is Hyper Competitive. Anything other then a top tier list will just get tabled probably by turn 2.

Dark Reapers with Yvraine shooting twice, using fire and fade to keep them from being shot at and possibly guide and doom to make them worse. If they deepstrike within sights of your reapers then using forewarned to get a free shooting. So potentially shooting 3 times in one battle round.

Shining Spears Deepstrike and using the Biel-tan Stratagem to charge hopefully two units. Focusing one and then Soul Bursting and killing the other.

At 1000 points that's about as much shenanigans as you can do. Trust me that's enough

Bharring wrote:
Act Twice from SfD (and Word of Phoenix).

Ynnari is certainly the strongest. Make sure your meta is that competitive before investing.

I usually face highly competitive lists, so no problem at all there.

NexAddo wrote:
Yes Ynnari is Hyper Competitive. Anything other then a top tier list will just get tabled probably by turn 2.

Dark Reapers with Yvraine shooting twice, using fire and fade to keep them from being shot at and possibly guide and doom to make them worse. If they deepstrike within sights of your reapers then using forewarned to get a free shooting. So potentially shooting 3 times in one battle round.

Shining Spears Deepstrike and using the Biel-tan Stratagem to charge hopefully two units. Focusing one and then Soul Bursting and killing the other.

At 1000 points that's about as much shenanigans as you can do. Trust me that's enough

Oh I trust you and I alreadymake plans on how to build this, thank you very much!

When we’re all ready talking about Ynnari, how’s the swooping hawks? Come in T2 does MWs on 6s then shooting a ton of shots. Next turn move for more MWs and shoot some more, soulburst and move for even more MWs. Seems solid but not the biggest target but will dish out some damage over a turn or two if not dealt with.

I’m correct for thinking that they can’t soulburst to move the turn they come in even if it’s the shooting phase?

When we’re all ready talking about Ynnari, how’s the swooping hawks? Come in T2 does MWs on 6s then shooting a ton of shots. Next turn move for more MWs and shoot some more, soulburst and move for even more MWs. Seems solid but not the biggest target but will dish out some damage over a turn or two if not dealt with.

Ynnari doesn't do much for swooping hawks.

In terms of shooting there is more efficient uses for your Soul Burst from Word of the Phoenix psychic Power. And you cannot deepstrike within Soul burst range looking for a free Soul Burst.

As far as objective grabbers. Not terrible but being CW or Ynnari wont really change their effectiveness.

Here is a question, i am getting a fully painted and magnitized wraith knight for cheap from a friend and i was wondering whats the best load out / best way to use it and if ynarri would offer anything to a knight?

WraithKnights do not benefit from Ynnari.

Iyanden or Alaitoc.

Not sure on what is best for loadout though. What is the rest of your army?

I don't think the melee option is that great as it's pretty slow.

I use a lot of dire avengers in my army, as well as a lot of different aspects. Small squads of fire dragons, some banshees, squad of dark reapers, and a few wraith units (either guard or a lord or two).

My collection is pretty much access to anything that isnt guardian related (or scorpion, never liked the look of striking scorpions).

I'd personally dual WraithCannons and take it as an Alaitoc.

Using lightning fast reflexes to give enemy -2 to hit it would give it some suitability.
Having a warlock cast conceal would give you even more mileage.

NexAddo wrote:
I'd personally dual WraithCannons and take it as an Alaitoc.

Using lightning fast reflexes to give enemy -2 to hit it would give it some suitability.
Having a warlock cast conceal would give you even more mileage.

Unless my memory is tricking me i swear all Eldar powers ( from runes of battle at least) can only affect infantry or bike nothing else.

Lightning fast is specifically infantry or fly keyword models.

Conceal is limited to infantry/bikes, so you wouldn't get to -3-to-hit.

Yeah, none of those can affect a wraithknight unfortunately. Best i can get is fortune (which is still a 5+++ so thats awsome).

I guess Iyanden it is then, set it up with suncannon, scattershield, and dual starcannons. Makes it a tough unit with great anti infantry and light vehicle abilities, could also guide it to make it better, and if i need a vehicle dead it wont do bad if the vehicle is doomed.

Still not as good as imperial knights sadly, it just cant compete there.

Iyanden is probably the best option, but only if you're using more than just the trait. The Iyanden trait is worse for Wraith Constructs (and almost everything else) than the Uthwe trait.

There isn't much in this game that can compete with an IK, currently.

Hey all want to double check a few things for my new list

If I have my Autarch Warlord take a Treasure of the Craftworld….does he get a Path of Command roll for that when I place him on the battlefield or is it already too late?

If my Autarch is from the codex but loaded with index options like Power Sword and Banshee Mask....

1) I don't have to pay for the Power Glaive if my model does not have one?
2) I do get the codex version of Path of Command?

has anyone else fell in love with the DoomWeaver on the Night Spinner like I have??


Automatically Appended Next Post:

So fine tuning my list some more.



9 CPs after -1 Treasures of the Craftworld.

I have 10, 11 or 12 drops depending on what I need. The Autarch with "wings" can hide in a Wave Serpent in case of Warlord killers out there like the Knight Missile Strategem.
I plan to sit one NightSpinner out of los while the other moves to claim an objective with CTM.
The rest of the force moves as one with the Autarch in the middle and Doom on the main target that round.

What do I spend my last 6 points on? Did I add it up correctly?
With the old list my Warp Jump Autarch did not benefit from the new Path of Command. Now I hope to regain 1 or 2 CP in a game thus making up for the 12" fly for the Autarch.


Oh....So Dire Avenger + Howling Banshee and Farsee in one Wave Serpent

Dire Avenger units + Fire Dragons and Conclave in the other Wave Serpent

Dire Avengers and if need be Autarch in the Falcon.

That is how I get down to 10 drops.

Thoughts on the Vypers. I used to do solo but they were such easy First Strike kills for my opponents. Now I can hide half of a unit and more often than not try to use LOS to keep them both from dying. The Scatter Laser is more of an Ablative wound for the star cannon one but can take shots til it goes down.

That is how I get down to 10 drops.

Is getting that minimum drop really that important.?

For example

HQ 2 Warlock Conclave Protect/Jinx + Quicken/Restrain 90

Splitting them up doubles their PP per turn.So they can cast two PP per turn rather than one.

HVY WraithLord Ghost Glaive, 2 Shuriken Cats + Shuriken Canon 105

You'll have to explain this guys purpose to me. At the moment you have a very mobile force apart from this guy. Usually they are good to bottleneck enemies or counter-charge if you are going for a gun-line. Would he being just running around a little aimless?

It's not a top tier list if you are being hyper competitive. Falcon, Banshees with no backup, two Autarchs. I'd also add a Fusion gun to your skyrunner Autarch.

My local meta has a guy who placed 21 at LVO and was 15 going in. The Wraithlord had paid for his points everytime vs titan lists. He is either a distraction carnifex or with doom does a dozen points to whomever he makes into contact....coupled with Banshee mask there is usally no overwatch on him.

The Warlocks have been great for me for a couple years now. YOU know the cons...here are the pros:

Cheaper. I can cast some needed powers up to 36"
Those powers are 2 now EVEN if one warlock dies
I still have access to both powers till ALL 4 wounds have been inflicted.

It is a flexible unit for how it works with the force.

I would rather go 2nd on many of the deployment zones, however if the opponent wins and chooses to go 2nd then you do not have that option. I would rather pick if I go second rather thatn be forced to go first on certain maps.

The last version of this list had no problem deleting 3 titan lists..both times. The problem comes from mission objectives. The secondaries work out for me.

It is a shoot first list ….the CC from the suicidal skyrunner, banshees, fire dragons and wraithlord directs the enemy to clean those units off since with doom they are an irritant that needs removed. Thus letting my shooting and Doom do the real work.

For me, the Warlock Conclave is difficult to justify in a tourney setting, when there are a lot of ignore-LoS weapons in a lot of armies. Not having the character keyword really hurts them.
HOWEVER, vs Orks and GSC it could be extremely well, as, chances are they’ll be charging you rather than trying to shoot through the invulns, giving you a couple of turns to benefit.

Over 50% of my opponents forget that the warlocks are not characters...even if they have played it prior with me. They know it ...but are so ingrained they forget to take advantage of it. Obviously good players will not. I do keep them in the Wave Serpent my first turn so 1 or 2 rounds they are not a viable target. When they are out...there are so many targets like fire dragons, Wraithlord, Skyrunner and tanks in the enemies face I have only had 1 game where they became a targer. In that game Doom still dropped 3 castellens over 2 1/2 Turns so it did not hurt. Again it was the mission objectives that do hurt as my flanking list needs to recoup in rounds 3 4 and 5 to have a chance to win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The reason they Wraithlord is in the Wild Host list (saim hann)
He can advance and move for an average of 11.5" and still shoot(no battle focus)
So he can keep pace with the tanks for the most part

He DOES get the reroll on failed charges. That is a huge benefit for his role if any try to CC my tanks. (Banshee masks on 3 units if needed to keep him from getting Overwatched)

 admironheart wrote:
My local meta has a guy who placed 21 at LVO and was 15 going in.

cool story bro

 admironheart wrote:
Over 50% of my opponents forget that the warlocks are not characters...even if they have played it prior with me. They know it ...but are so ingrained they forget to take advantage of it. Obviously good players will not. I do keep them in the Wave Serpent my first turn so 1 or 2 rounds they are not a viable target. When they are out...there are so many targets like fire dragons, Wraithlord, Skyrunner and tanks in the enemies face I have only had 1 game where they became a targer. In that game Doom still dropped 3 castellens over 2 1/2 Turns so it did not hurt. Again it was the mission objectives that do hurt as my flanking list needs to recoup in rounds 3 4 and 5 to have a chance to win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The reason they Wraithlord is in the Wild Host list (saim hann)
He can advance and move for an average of 11.5" and still shoot(no battle focus)
So he can keep pace with the tanks for the most part

He DOES get the reroll on failed charges. That is a huge benefit for his role if any try to CC my tanks. (Banshee masks on 3 units if needed to keep him from getting Overwatched)

Where are you getting battle focus on the wraithlord from?
As far as I could see none of the vehicle type units have battle focus.

I said NO battle focus


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 admironheart wrote:
I said NO battle focus


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cool story bro

There are many players that take units that others feel "not competitive" and do very well with them. The mob mentality of the online community can get a terrible case of tunnel vision.

With Orks completely taking over the local meta, and new GSC poised to do so again, I immediately started painting up nine Shadow Weaver Vaul Support Weapons, and was laughed at for "wasting money on non-competitive models". I've also won our last two events...

Competitive is a relative term based on local player-base, etc.

How do you feel about the Shadow Weaver vs the Doomweaver.

Just to try it out I took both vs my nid opponent in a non optimized footdar list. ( I was better in CC than the nids, He was superior in shooting ….it was funny)

The Shadow Weavers were still around...he did take out the NightSpinner. I just find the Str 7 and 2 wound to be very nice. I had just gotten 3 Shadow Weavers recently and was hoping they would be great. Im still not convinced. I think I will stay with the Night Spinner.

The tank does have a bigger footprint and target. Cannot hide on 2nd floors but does have fly to retreat from CC.

How has your units played out?

lol, my 3 shadow weavers at LVO were rockstars. 111pts for 3D6 S6 shots. Twice they stripped the last wound or two of a knight to kill it and save shooting a better weapon for just 1 wound. Also invaluable for hitting invisible units.

They're souped up S6 rend-capable mortars on a fairly sturdy BS3 platform. What's not to like?

Sterling191 wrote:
They're souped up S6 rend-capable mortars on a fairly sturdy BS3 platform. What's not to like?

This.

So far in our horde-plagued meta, I haven't once regretted taking all nine Shadow-Weavers. For 333pts, hidden out of LoS, but no less clogging my back-field, they've always earned back their points. Its everything good about IG mortars, but much stronger, and hit more frequently, in an army that also needs the anti-horde support more.

Between them and "Forewarned" strat on a unit of say Shining Spears or Dark Reapers, my local meta of Ork players has crapped themselves.

My FLGS has 1250 pt events. My question is- Can an eldar player get away with only 1 wave serpent in the army?

I was thinking Farseer, Asurman, Jain Zir, 2x5 Rangers, 3x5 Avengers, 5 Dragons + Ex, 9 Banshees + Ex, 4 Windriders with shuriken cannon, 1 wave serpent.

I was thinking of starting the Banshees + JZ in the wave serpent. The Avengers and Asurman are place holders, the rangers are advanced or placed in sniper positions. The dragons are started in cover and the bikes positioned as needed to support or strike.

Yeah absolutely. Wave Serpents are great but their offensive output isn't that high for what they cost, so you're better off only taking as many as you need for the transport utility. The great mobility, durability and mortal wounds is more of a perk than the main reason to use them I say.

Yeah the lists I have been concocting only made allowance for 1 Wave serpent. Duno if I was biased because I only own the one though lol.

So we are having our first Apocalypse game for me in 8th. I am taking a very non optimized list

I just want to play the models that I have

My 3 Tempest Super Heavy Tanks are going to be a Dark Eldar Tantalus squadron. Except for the CC it seems the best fit of all the eldar stuff.

I am also taking a Revenant. Unfortunately we are doing points instead of power levels so I am paying a massive overcosted rate.

So I expect to get blown off fairly fast. It will be a 6' x 16' board with progressive reinforcements.

Every round it goes from 500 point detatchments to start and increases by 500 each round. Thus the Revenant wont even be available til round 4 or later. I have 5 detachments.

So it will take 5 or 6 rounds to get all my 6000 points into play.

I have Kabalite warriors, Scourges, archon and succubus in my Tempests(tantalus) with a 36" range but 12 shots each what should they do...just charge and kill and die?

What about the Revenant. It has a pitiful 60" range. I was thinking of staying on the flank.

Everything else is mostly the main mission objective troops where LoW are inaccessible.Basically whomever controls the Vortex Missile Pad will win the game...so infantry does have a use.

I will be facing Guard, Orks and possibly other eldar>

Anything I should be careful off? I think there will be baneblade variants of all types and possibly a Scorpion.
Castellans and such ofc.

I'm dipping my toes back into Craftworld armies and I think I've missed the big picture regard Dark Reapers.

How do Dark Reapers do their jump-shoot-twice-jump thing?

I know Alaitoc is nice for that -1 to-hit rule... but, how does Ynarri fit in? Doesn't the Reapers have to be within 7" of a unit being destroyed? And what's the "jump" part?

Thanks!

 whembly wrote:
I'm dipping my toes back into Craftworld armies and I think I've missed the big picture regard Dark Reapers.

How do Dark Reapers do their jump-shoot-twice-jump thing?

I know Alaitoc is nice for that -1 to-hit rule... but, how does Ynarri fit in? Doesn't the Reapers have to be within 7" of a unit being destroyed? And what's the "jump" part?

Thanks!

There's a psyker power that when cast on a unit allows it to immediately make a soulburst action. There is also a strategem that allows a unit to move 7" after firing in the shooting phase.

try putting your Dark Reapers in a Bastion if they do die to fast. 20 W at T9 is nice Ablative for 160 points.

So The inescpapable accuracy perk for dark reapers...

I was planng on giving my exarch the aeldari missle launcher (because its 2 pts cheaper and does the same thing) and mainly to use the strashot stratagem vs flyers.

According to the rule DR exarch ALWAYS hits on a 3+ regardless of modifiers. But with the starshot you add 1 to the hit roll. is it me or are the two mutually exclusive therefore star stratagem does nothing as DR exarch is the only infantry model with aeldari missle launcher? Pretty sure I'm missing something obvious.

DR always ignore modifiers, both positive and negative.

Currently the only unit that benefits from the +1 is a Guardian squad using the heavy weapons platform.

It’s the only one in dark reapers that’s having an Aeldari missile launcher yes. But why use that stratagem on DRs? They hit on 3+ anyway.

The little experience I have with DR I took the tempest launcher and was very pleased with it. So I do recommend taking that.

Guardians with heavy weapons platform can take it. Pretty sure some other things can take it like auturach (spelling?) can take it from the index I think.

Tazberry wrote:
It’s the only one in dark reapers that’s having an Aeldari missile launcher yes. But why use that stratagem on DRs? They hit on 3+ anyway.

The little experience I have with DR I took the tempest launcher and was very pleased with it. So I do recommend taking that.

Guardians with heavy weapons platform can take it. Pretty sure some other things can take it like auturach (spelling?) can take it from the index I think.

Only the Guardian Defenders.

The Autarchs don't get the missile launcher, they get the Reaper Launcher instead.

Just Take Reaper Launcher in squad of 10 or Tempest Launcher for squad of 3.

So it seems my local meta has a lot of guys playing around with the Fist+Chainsword titan with 3 d6 drop the lowest for charges. They spend 3 CP to place the titan in reserves.

Now from what I read it must be placed on a board edge within 6"

within ….means only a part needs to be within correct? Just like transports embarking/disembarking.

If that is the case then the base can be positioned lengthwise to get about 13 inches from the edge....with a nice charge range of 9 inches or so with a re roll. That puts it in range of the middle of the board.

How do you guys handle that move? Screens?
or do you put bait down in a corner and consider that the titan is a waste if all it kills is the bait>

thoughts suggestions.....experiences?

I just played my first 8th ed Apocolypse game. Unfortunately the weather turned bad and we had to kill the game aftyer turn 5.

We set up, played 5 turns and packed up and still ate a sit down dinner and beef stew. I think I got drunk. and it was still under 6 hours (the one guy did not even have a 6000 point list yet)

I CANNOT explain how important it is to play progressive army play rather than plopping down one big blob of forces. We had 3 turns done in the first hour and half (including deployment)

We had a few hiccups and such but still a good time.

My Revenant did not show up till turn 5 but it vaporized a Castellan.

I was really impressed with it...not 2000 points impressed, but now I think the Phantom may be a great piece in these games.

I played my 3 Tempest super heavy tanks as a Dark Eldar force as a proxy with Tantalas rules. They rocked. I still had 2 after 3 rounds was in the imperial gun lines and had taken out a storm hammer and 2 leman russes. Not sure if they would have survived another round...but very happy with them as a proxy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My Question.

If I am looking at it right....the Phantom can advance an extra 12" and the Revenant 18". That is great.

To get the best Field save the phantom barely squeaks by on its top move speed. The Revenant must advance to gain it.

But every weapon is Heavy. The titan rules permit the no modifier for firing heavy weapons even when moving.

BUT IF THOSE TITANS ADVANCE...AS FAR AS I CAN TELL THEY CANNOT FIRE ANY WEAPONS????

IS THIS RIGHT? If so why would anyone ever advance them if they give up such valuable shooting.

Am I missing something or is that the way it is?

I have a 1500pt game vs Death Guard tomorrow, lists beliw, would love some tips:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [54 PL, 1031pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 137pts]: 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Biel-Tan: Natural Leader, Craftworlds Warlord, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Spiritseer [3 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol

+ Troops +

Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 105pts]: 10x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Aeldari Missile Launcher

Guardian Defenders [5 PL, 105pts]: 10x Guardian Defender
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Aeldari Missile Launcher

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger

+ Elites +

Wraithblades [10 PL, 225pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield, 5x Wraithblade

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [12 PL, 165pts]
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Vyper: Starcannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 169pts]: Crystal Targeting Matrix, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Starcannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [29 PL, 459pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Biel-Tan: Swordwind

+ HQ +

Autarch [4 PL, 77pts]: Forceshield, Star Glaive

+ Heavy Support +

Support Weapons [9 PL, 111pts]
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver
. Support Weapon: Shadow Weaver

War Walkers [8 PL, 160pts]
. War Walker: Bright Lance, Bright Lance
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

Wraithlord [8 PL, 111pts]: Shuriken Catapult, Shuriken Catapult, 2x Starcannon

++ Total: [83 PL, 1490pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

###############################################

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [59 PL, 8CP, 997pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 76pts]: Chainsword, Combi-bolter

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Fugaris' Helm, Hellforged sword, Warlord, Wings

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [7 PL, 111pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [7 PL, 111pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [7 PL, 111pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 136pts]: Fleshmower, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 136pts]: Fleshmower, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 136pts]: Fleshmower, Plague probe

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [31 PL, 5CP, 503pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 85pts]: Chainsword, Combi-plasma

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 85pts]: Chainsword, Combi-plasma

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [7 PL, 111pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [7 PL, 111pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

Plague Marines [7 PL, 111pts]
. Plague Champion
. . Codex: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

++ Total: [90 PL, 13CP, 1500pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

so ive bought myself a wraithknight whats the best load out to run?

Thinking suncannon and scatter shield?

daismith906 wrote:
so ive bought myself a wraithknight whats the best load out to run?

Thinking suncannon and scatter shield?

Pretty much yes. The sword one is cheaper and slightly better than stomps against Knights and stuff, but other than that the suncannon wins. There's a point to be made for the wraithhost detachment, which would allow a double wraitch cannon Knight to get the invuln off of a spiritseer, but it's costly in CP and real bad against snipers of any kind.

Eldar Trickery

Hey folks. I've not played with my Eldar for a while and was wondering what tricks and combos are proving effective these days. From memory there's:

-Ynnari Dark Reapers shooting twice with Word Of The Phoenix, then using fire and fade to hide.

-Shining Spears moving twice with Quicken/WotP and/or using the Saim Hann strat to advance and charge.

-Shining Spears arriving from the Webway and using the Court of the Young King strat for a 7" charge.

-The Guardian Bomb from the webway + buffs. Or perhaps dropping Wraithguard or Firedragons instead.

-Wraithblades getting a silly number of attacks from the Psycotroke, +1 to hit, Supreme Disdain, SfD.


Which of these are considered viable/competitive?
Are there any other hard hitting combos people have been using?


And on a somewhat related note: What type of anti-horde are Eldar players using to remove the chaff screens that can disrupt a lot of these tricks?

The guy who came second at lvo ran seven flyers with two squads of nine scat bikes for the ynarri shenanigans, that may be the new hotness.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Eldar Trickery

Hey folks. I've not played with my Eldar for a while and was wondering what tricks and combos are proving effective these days. From memory there's:

-Ynnari Dark Reapers shooting twice with Word Of The Phoenix, then using fire and fade to hide.

-Shining Spears moving twice with Quicken/WotP and/or using the Saim Hann strat to advance and charge.

-Shining Spears arriving from the Webway and using the Court of the Young King strat for a 7" charge.

-The Guardian Bomb from the webway + buffs. Or perhaps dropping Wraithguard or Firedragons instead.

-Wraithblades getting a silly number of attacks from the Psycotroke, +1 to hit, Supreme Disdain, SfD.


Which of these are considered viable/competitive?
Are there any other hard hitting combos people have been using?


And on a somewhat related note: What type of anti-horde are Eldar players using to remove the chaff screens that can disrupt a lot of these tricks?

When it comes to Ynnari, you could have a look into https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/771142.page

That poor thread is so small and has only a few things about the ynnari, it’s probably why he came here to ask us..

Lost my game to the Death Guard... Bad deployment on my part exacerbated a brutal scenario, but I killed way more stuff than in our previous game, and my Farseer survived until the end so happy enough

In other news, getting two pre-built Crimson Hunters for cheap! Wondering 1) if there are extra bits I need to add to make ‘em Exarchs, or o I just declare it? 2) are Starcannons worth it, or should both just have Bright Lances?

Cheers

Stick to bright lances, and I believe most people use the little fin that goes on the middle of the back end to usually signify it’s a exarch, at least I do, however I never DONT run mine as exarchs, so as long as you do the same if you state it’s an exarch or all are exarch you’ll be fine

1. if you really really must run biel-tan, why would you not take a all shuriken cannons and drop all the heavy weapons on your everything?

At the moment you are getting no benefit from your craftworld at all apart from leadership. All of your heavy weapons are expensive....with shuriken cannons you'll be rerolling 1s across all of your units , get one more shot per weapons and be -3ap on 6's anyway and save yourself a lot of points in the process.
Your vipers are currently getting -1 to hit if they move and have 1 less shot with a star cannon. You would be saving 60 points on your weapon platforms alone...

With doom you will be re-rolling all day to get those 6;s anyway. and your only dropping some range and chance to deal d3 dmg but your hits/wound conversion will be much higher anyway because of the volumes of shots.

2. with the points you save, why would you not run alitoic on your 2nd detachment and move the wraithblades and wave serpent in there along with some more stuff.

3. the star cannon exarch seem to be more efficient. I listened to Lawrence on Table Top tactics and I agree. I would listen to his LVO talk.

Call me a mad man but that's what Id do.

The main reason I run Biel Tan is because I’ve wanted to emulate the 1998 GW Eldar army (I.e. just at the 2nd-3rd edition changeover) ever since... well, 1998. I like the color scheme, and I like to play painted!

And FWIW Biel Tan are more than just the Craftworld Trait; the warlord trait and relic are both pretty good too. My Farseer now hangs around with the Starcannon Vypers (which are cheap, fast, and soak up wounds for him) while he flits around Dooming, Smiting and Executing enemies, all the while giving them passive re-rolls to with EVERYTHING, not just Shuriken. Last battle he then zoomed over to the Warwalkers once the Vypers were destroyed, and continued in much the same vein.

Actually, Starcannons were great vs the Death Guard - the D3 wounds per hit forced my opponent to roll multiple “disgustingly resilient “ saves per model. That said, the missile launchers on the guardians were useless, but I built them that way to take advantage of the Starhawk (?) stratagem, as I don’t yet have any Dark Reapers. Going forward, I want to pick up some extra platforms, maybe some classic metal ones ‘cause they go really cheap on eBay, so I can have options.

All that said... I’m going to be really torn about my new Airwing! No reason at all to make them Biel Tan, so should I paint them Alaitoc!?

Anyway, I have another game tonight, and I’m bring THE AVATAR! The list is pretty terrible, but game should be quick and enjoyable . I will let y’a know how I get on.

Neil

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
The main reason I run Biel Tan is because I’ve wanted to emulate the 1998 GW Eldar army (I.e. just at the 2nd-3rd edition changeover) ever since... well, 1998. I like the color scheme, and I like to play painted!

And FWIW Biel Tan are more than just the Craftworld Trait; the warlord trait and relic are both pretty good too. My Farseer now hangs around with the Starcannon Vypers (which are cheap, fast, and soak up wounds for him) while he flits around Dooming, Smiting and Executing enemies, all the while giving them passive re-rolls to with EVERYTHING, not just Shuriken. Last battle he then zoomed over to the Warwalkers once the Vypers were destroyed, and continued in much the same vein.

Actually, Starcannons were great vs the Death Guard - the D3 wounds per hit forced my opponent to roll multiple “disgustingly resilient “ saves per model. That said, the missile launchers on the guardians were useless, but I built them that way to take advantage of the Starhawk (?) stratagem, as I don’t yet have any Dark Reapers. Going forward, I want to pick up some extra platforms, maybe some classic metal ones ‘cause they go really cheap on eBay, so I can have options.

All that said... I’m going to be really torn about my new Airwing! No reason at all to make them Biel Tan, so should I paint them Alaitoc!?

Anyway, I have another game tonight, and I’m bring THE AVATAR! The list is pretty terrible, but game should be quick and enjoyable . I will let y’a know how I get on.

Neil

I had great success using my avatar to hold 40 guardians from
Running without having to use CP to do so. My opponent hated it. But I also ran Ulthwé so.. my guardians refilled ones and had a 4+ inch land we’re fearless..

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
That poor thread is so small and has only a few things about the ynnari, it’s probably why he came here to ask us..

I actually commented in that thread but forgot it existed. Shame it didn't take off more!

When people talk about scat bikes I assume they're referring to Scatter Laser Jetbikes not Shurken Catapults? If so are they playing Saim Hann or just accepting that you hit on 4+ if you move?

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
That poor thread is so small and has only a few things about the ynnari, it’s probably why he came here to ask us..

I actually commented in that thread but forgot it existed. Shame it didn't take off more!

When people talk about scat bikes I assume they're referring to Scatter Laser Jetbikes not Shurken Catapults? If so are they playing Saim Hann or just accepting that you hit on 4+ if you move?

Most people talk about Ynnari still need CWE/DE/Quins information, b.c it is their datasheets after all, only makes since that it wouldnt take off

Scat bikes are indeed Scatter Laser, Scatbikes are great at Anti-horde, with 36" range you dont really need to move turn 1 (unless you need to re-position), 4 shots vs 3 and longer range. Personally i would take them with Alaitoc, -1 to hit is huge, especially when you add cover and powers, you can have a very survivable large unit sitting back for a couple turns shooting 36 dice.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
That poor thread is so small and has only a few things about the ynnari, it’s probably why he came here to ask us..

I actually commented in that thread but forgot it existed. Shame it didn't take off more!

When people talk about scat bikes I assume they're referring to Scatter Laser Jetbikes not Shurken Catapults? If so are they playing Saim Hann or just accepting that you hit on 4+ if you move?

Most people talk about Ynnari still need CWE/DE/Quins information, b.c it is their datasheets after all, only makes since that it wouldnt take off

Scat bikes are indeed Scatter Laser, Scatbikes are great at Anti-horde, with 36" range you dont really need to move turn 1 (unless you need to re-position), 4 shots vs 3 and longer range. Personally i would take them with Alaitoc, -1 to hit is huge, especially when you add cover and powers, you can have a very survivable large unit sitting back for a couple turns shooting 36 dice.

I use 12 scatbikes in one of my ynnari lists that can be found on the front page of the army lists forum subsection. Also when it comes to the Shuriken cannons, I usually, when taking guardians as my troops, choose between one or 2 units of 20 man guardians w/ 2 cannons in each to deepstrike. Whether I choose 1 or 2, the rest is bare bones storm guardians w/ chainswords. Only if I somehow have extra points do I add more than 8. I use to give fusion guns, but I’d rather have the bodies than the guns in my storm guardian squads.

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
The main reason I run Biel Tan is because I’ve wanted to emulate the 1998 GW Eldar army (I.e. just at the 2nd-3rd edition changeover) ever since... well, 1998. I like the color scheme, and I like to play painted!

And FWIW Biel Tan are more than just the Craftworld Trait; the warlord trait and relic are both pretty good too. My Farseer now hangs around with the Starcannon Vypers (which are cheap, fast, and soak up wounds for him) while he flits around Dooming, Smiting and Executing enemies, all the while giving them passive re-rolls to with EVERYTHING, not just Shuriken. Last battle he then zoomed over to the Warwalkers once the Vypers were destroyed, and continued in much the same vein.

Actually, Starcannons were great vs the Death Guard - the D3 wounds per hit forced my opponent to roll multiple “disgustingly resilient “ saves per model. That said, the missile launchers on the guardians were useless, but I built them that way to take advantage of the Starhawk (?) stratagem, as I don’t yet have any Dark Reapers. Going forward, I want to pick up some extra platforms, maybe some classic metal ones ‘cause they go really cheap on eBay, so I can have options.

All that said... I’m going to be really torn about my new Airwing! No reason at all to make them Biel Tan, so should I paint them Alaitoc!?

Anyway, I have another game tonight, and I’m bring THE AVATAR! The list is pretty terrible, but game should be quick and enjoyable . I will let y’a know how I get on.

Neil

The rule of cool trumps all so do what you will

Ps. I run my own craft world colour scheme and assign craft worlds according to needs. I'll always have an ulthwe detahcement for Eldrad. He is obnoxiously good for only 25 points more than a normal farseer.

I take a spearhead with Eldrad to be my farseer, and an Autarch on foot as warlord with fate reader and 3x support weapons. Warlord snugs up out of LOS to farm one or two cp per battle whilst Eldrard is out in the tfront lines. Re-rollable nest of shadow weaver x3 (or more) every shooting turn is very reliable. 323 points is very decent for all that. I think

Cpt. Icanus wrote:

daismith906 wrote:
so ive bought myself a wraithknight whats the best load out to run?

Thinking suncannon and scatter shield?

Pretty much yes. The sword one is cheaper and slightly better than stomps against Knights and stuff, but other than that the suncannon wins. There's a point to be made for the wraithhost detachment, which would allow a double wraitch cannon Knight to get the invuln off of a spiritseer, but it's costly in CP and real bad against snipers of any kind.

I am sorry, how is a spirit seer giving out an invunerable save to a wraith knight? Did i miss something somewhere? I just got myself a knight as well and would love to not have to take the scatter shield.

Azuza001 wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:

daismith906 wrote:
so ive bought myself a wraithknight whats the best load out to run?

Thinking suncannon and scatter shield?

Pretty much yes. The sword one is cheaper and slightly better than stomps against Knights and stuff, but other than that the suncannon wins. There's a point to be made for the wraithhost detachment, which would allow a double wraitch cannon Knight to get the invuln off of a spiritseer, but it's costly in CP and real bad against snipers of any kind.

I am sorry, how is a spirit seer giving out an invunerable save to a wraith knight? Did i miss something somewhere? I just got myself a knight as well and would love to not have to take the scatter shield.

Ina nut shell; They both need to be in the spirit host specialist detachment from Vigilius. (Costs 1cp). and then you use a stratagem for 2cp to give over the invuln for a turn.

If you have to choose, Hemlocks or Crimson Hunters?

karandrasss wrote:
If you have to choose, Hemlocks or Crimson Hunters?

Crimson Hunters for anti-tank all the way.

Ah vigulus. Gotcha. Thanks.

 wuestenfux wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
If you have to choose, Hemlocks or Crimson Hunters?

Crimson Hunters for anti-tank all the way.

Both have their place. I have 2 crimson ecarchs built and one hemlock though, simply because generally
I do agree with you

I have a quick question: should I get a Shurikan Cannon Wave Serpent for my Wraithblades, or use 5 Shurikan Cannon bikes?

Reason I ask is because I already own the bikes but would have to buy the Serpent haha.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I have a quick question: should I get a Shurikan Cannon Wave Serpent for my Wraithblades, or use 5 Shurikan Cannon bikes?

Reason I ask is because I already own the bikes but would have to buy the Serpent haha.

So, one protects your blades with wounds while they sit safely inside, the other is expensive and doesn’t protect your blades. Wave serpeants are a good thing to have for ANY Aeldari force. On the flip side, give your bikes scatter lasers, run them in 2 squads of 6, pump your wraiths up to 10, and ESPECIALLY if you are running axe and board, deepstrike then turn 2 9.01” away from whatever you want dead and point, click, delete! Voila, all for 1 cp! Now yes the initial charge is 9”, but that is highly possible to do so. And if it doesn’t, you Have a 4+ invul 3 wound models they, 10 of em, they have to attempt to mow down.

So has anyone tried the new Wraith Host stratagem with a night titan. Combine with Protect and get a 3+ invul.

If you did, did you take a Spirit Seer or BoneSinger for swaping out the Psychic power ( I think both are eligible??)

With the re roll all misses wraith strat if within 12" does 1 or 2 knight lists do any better.

And on that note ...a 2 Knight list would probably be bad correct? as your opponent could just rotate fire on the easier target....am I missing anything

 admironheart wrote:
So has anyone tried the new Wraith Host stratagem with a night titan. Combine with Protect and get a 3+ invul.

If you did, did you take a Spirit Seer or BoneSinger for swaping out the Psychic power ( I think both are eligible??)

With the re roll all misses wraith strat if within 12" does 1 or 2 knight lists do any better.

And on that note ...a 2 Knight list would probably be bad correct? as your opponent could just rotate fire on the easier target....am I missing anything

I don't think that's the way it works. the power is unit specific and doesn't transfer with the invuln save.
Protect adds 1 to saving throws for the infantry/biker unit. So the 4++ would transfer to the wraith construct but the protects effect would not IMO.
The way I understand it, the spiritseer would still have protect on him but with just his normal 6+ making it a 5+.

 Argive wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
So has anyone tried the new Wraith Host stratagem with a night titan. Combine with Protect and get a 3+ invul.

If you did, did you take a Spirit Seer or BoneSinger for swaping out the Psychic power ( I think both are eligible??)

With the re roll all misses wraith strat if within 12" does 1 or 2 knight lists do any better.

And on that note ...a 2 Knight list would probably be bad correct? as your opponent could just rotate fire on the easier target....am I missing anything

I don't think that's the way it works. the power is unit specific and doesn't transfer with the invuln save.
Protect adds 1 to saving throws for the infantry/biker unit. So the 4++ would transfer to the wraith construct but the protects effect would not IMO.
The way I understand it, the spiritseer would still have protect on him but with just his normal 6+ making it a 5+.

That's correct.

How would you guys expect this list to perform against Swarmlord/Kraken Tyranids + Genestealer Cults? I'm anticipating this to be a pretty defensive game so I wonder if the two 5-man ranger squads and the 3 wraithlords will be enough to screen for my reapers/spears. I suppose I could also webway the reapers. Don't have a ton of experience playing Ynnari/CWE so any tips would be hugely appreciated.

Ynnari Battalion - 5CP
1x Yvraine - Word of the Phoenix, Ancestor's Grace
1x Warlock - Conceal/Reveal
8x Shining Spears, 1x Exarch, Star Lance
9x Dark Reapers, 1x Exarch
19x Guardian Defenders, Shuriken Cannon Platform
2 x 5 Rangers

Ulthwe Spearhead - 1CP
1x Eldrad Ulthran, Doom, Guide, Fortune
1x Spiritseer - Protect/Jinx
1x Hemlock, Jinx
1x Hemlock, Restrain
3x Wraithlord, 2x Shuriken Catapults, Fists

Total 1999pts - 9CP

Should I drop the Hemlocks and take 3 cheapo Wave Serpents with twin scatter lasers? Nids have a massively difficult time killing hemlocks, but then again once swarmy/flyrants go down, there aren't too many great targets for the hemlocks to after. Maybe the hive guard after that? Also T1 move-blocking genestealers could be useful.

Thanks Pain4Pleasure for the response. This is my list, trying to squeeze in a Wave Serpent, but I'm currently over by 36pts :/

What could I change to get it to 1500? Not trying to make a tournament worthy list btw, just struggling to make the points with the models I have.



My original list was the same but with minor changes:

Question- According to the Codex you have 3 types of auturchs, 1 on a bike, 1 with wings and, 1 on foot. Now, am I correct that the 1 on foot has no options for other war gear? So that all he has is his glaive and no other weapon and he can't swap the glaive out for any other melee weapon. If this is the case which figure would be appropriate to use for him (with wysiwyg)?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Thanks Pain4Pleasure for the response. This is my list, trying to squeeze in a Wave Serpent, but I'm currently over by 36pts :/

What could I change to get it to 1500? Not trying to make a tournament worthy list btw, just struggling to make the points with the models I have.

Spoiler:

HQ
- Farseer w/ Singing Spear (Warlord)
- Spiritseer w/ Psytronome of Iyanden
TROOP
- 5x Dire Avengers
- 5x Dire Avengers
- 20x Guardians w/ 2x Shurikan Heavy Weapon Platforms
ELITE
- 5x Axe/Shield Wraithblades
- 5x Wraithcannon Wraithguard
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Fire Prism
- Wraithlord w/ 2x Shurikan Cannons/Catapults, Ghostglaive
FLYER
- Hemlock Wraithfighter
TRANSPORT
- Wave Serpent w/ 3x Shurikan Cannons

Total: 1536pts

My original list was the same but with minor changes:

Spoiler:

HQ
- Farseer w/ Singing Spear, w/ Psytronome of Iyanden (Warlord)
- Wraithseer w/ D-Cannon
TROOP
- 5x Dire Avengers
- 5x Dire Avengers
- 20x Guardians w/ 2x Shurikan Heavy Weapon Platforms
ELITE
- 5x Axe/Shield Wraithblades
- 5x Wraithcannon Wraithguard
FAST ATTACK
- 5x Shurikan Cannon Wind Riders
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Fire Prism
FLYER
- Hemlock Wraithfighter

Total: 1499pts

If you have any more defenders, or storm guardians or even rangers I’d swap them for the fire avengers. Should free up points

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Thanks Pain4Pleasure for the response. This is my list, trying to squeeze in a Wave Serpent, but I'm currently over by 36pts :/

What could I change to get it to 1500? Not trying to make a tournament worthy list btw, just struggling to make the points with the models I have.

Spoiler:

HQ
- Farseer w/ Singing Spear (Warlord)
- Spiritseer w/ Psytronome of Iyanden
TROOP
- 5x Dire Avengers
- 5x Dire Avengers
- 20x Guardians w/ 2x Shurikan Heavy Weapon Platforms
ELITE
- 5x Axe/Shield Wraithblades
- 5x Wraithcannon Wraithguard
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Fire Prism
- Wraithlord w/ 2x Shurikan Cannons/Catapults, Ghostglaive
FLYER
- Hemlock Wraithfighter
TRANSPORT
- Wave Serpent w/ 3x Shurikan Cannons

Total: 1536pts

My original list was the same but with minor changes:

Spoiler:

HQ
- Farseer w/ Singing Spear, w/ Psytronome of Iyanden (Warlord)
- Wraithseer w/ D-Cannon
TROOP
- 5x Dire Avengers
- 5x Dire Avengers
- 20x Guardians w/ 2x Shurikan Heavy Weapon Platforms
ELITE
- 5x Axe/Shield Wraithblades
- 5x Wraithcannon Wraithguard
FAST ATTACK
- 5x Shurikan Cannon Wind Riders
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Fire Prism
FLYER
- Hemlock Wraithfighter

Total: 1499pts

If you just want to shave off 36 points I'd just drop a weapons platform and some guardians. Probably the ghostglaive as well. Wraithbone fists already hit pretty damn hard. Buffing a wraithlord's close combat damage doesn't seem worth it when it still only has 4 attacks and is likely to get shot down or ignored/tarpitted by some guardsmen/gants/cultists/chaff/etc.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Question- According to the Codex you have 3 types of auturchs, 1 on a bike, 1 with wings and, 1 on foot. Now, am I correct that the 1 on foot has no options for other war gear? So that all he has is his glaive and no other weapon and he can't swap the glaive out for any other melee weapon. If this is the case which figure would be appropriate to use for him (with wysiwyg)?

Per faq you can use autarch rules from index adding gear a available for foot, wing and bike at codex rules and costs. You also can have a warp jump generator autarch. The warp jump generator is index cost codex rules and war gear cost from codex.

I know about the FAQ. My FLGS prefers to play under codex rules where possible. In the codex the auturch on foot has no options for his equipment.

So, my question is what kit would allow you to make an auturch with just a star glaive (with the ability to distinguish it from a far seer with singing spear)?

Huh there no autarch on foot kit on the GW website. Swear I seen it not that long ago?

To answer your question, you could kit bash a dire avenger, guardians and aspect warriors to make somethiing.

Alternatively I think prince yriel is the clostsest thing GW sells. Could also use a visarch i guess.

He, the prince, might work. Do you know if the backpack/flags are separate from the rest of the model or not? If it is then he could make a nice generic auturch. If he has to have the flags then it might cause some confusion.

Realistically you could just gussy up a Dire Avenger Exarch (comes with a glaive option in the kit). A little greenstuff half-cape and some extra ornamentation and boom, Footarch.

I use a Winged Autarch. But I use the foot Autarch rules. I just give him the Falcoh Wings Relic.

It does not count as a Jump Pack so you can put him in a transport and it is easy to say they are collasable wings.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh the BoneSinger has NO psychic power so cannot give himthe Vigilus WraithHost psychic power. Well he does have Smite but that is NOT a criteria for it.

HOWEVER it is a criteria for the WraithSeer. He has a lot of useless powers that would be nice to exchange for the new Psychic power.

My question is....does Conceal work with the new cover psychic power or is it redundant?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
He, the prince, might work. Do you know if the backpack/flags are separate from the rest of the model or not? If it is then he could make a nice generic auturch. If he has to have the flags then it might cause some confusion.

Pretty sure they are a separate element so you could magnetize them and use him as yriel if need be. Also look for some bits on ebay/swap shop. Might be able to get a set of swooping haw/scourges wings and magnetize those so that he could either be a swooping hawk Autarch or fulachus' wing relic.
Also you could just pin/magentise his head with a dire avengers to use as either Yriel or Autarch? Im sure a simple head swap will be acceptable and sufficient to distinguish the two models.

Autarchs are cool and very kitbashable so you should be abble to do what you want.
I get that your club might not appreciate proxying models - im not a fan personaly. But converting/kitbashing is another kettle of Autarch...

I’ve been wondering what model GW intended is to use as well - I mean, isn’t the idea with Codex entries that they represent what’s currently for sale?!

I’ve been using the Classic Dire Avengers Exarch, no-one in my gaming group has complained! However, I’ve alsi just finished painting a more appropriate conversion made from a Rogue Trader Avatar (bought for £1 on eBay due to missing arm and caked paint) and spare plastic Dire Avenger bits. Can’t wait to put him on the table!

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
I’ve been wondering what model GW intended is to use as well - I mean, isn’t the idea with Codex entries that they represent what’s currently for sale?!

I’ve been using the Classic Dire Avengers Exarch, no-one in my gaming group has complained! However, I’ve alsi just finished painting a more appropriate conversion made from a Rogue Trader Avatar (bought for £1 on eBay due to missing arm and caked paint) and spare plastic Dire Avenger bits. Can’t wait to put him on the table!

I believe the Autarch model is on hold since Fracture of Biel-tan.

I think GW intended or developed new models to represent the forward move in the narrative, The Ynnari novels depict the basic Autarch with a Star Glaive and i believe we won't see the model until the Eldar/Ynnari turn for new models.

My personal model is a converted helmetless Visarch with a Star Glaive on the right arm and a Reaper launcher on the left one.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
I’ve been wondering what model GW intended is to use as well - I mean, isn’t the idea with Codex entries that they represent what’s currently for sale?!

I’ve been using the Classic Dire Avengers Exarch, no-one in my gaming group has complained! However, I’ve alsi just finished painting a more appropriate conversion made from a Rogue Trader Avatar (bought for £1 on eBay due to missing arm and caked paint) and spare plastic Dire Avenger bits. Can’t wait to put him on the table!

I believe the Autarch model is on hold since Fracture of Biel-tan.

I think GW intended or developed new models to represent the forward move in the narrative, The Ynnari novels depict the basic Autarch with a Star Glaive and i believe we won't see the model until the Eldar/Ynnari turn for new models.

My personal model is a converted helmetless Visarch with a Star Glaive on the right arm and a Reaper launcher on the left one.

Nice, I have also used a visarch. Got any pics ?

I greenstuffed his sword to represent a flame sabre (cos it made sense at the time) and the reaper launcher didint fit right so its a bit wonky and im putting scourge wings on him as well. Bit of a hot mess at the mo and am regretting some of the decisions.. but got him for £8 on ebay so still cheaper than an autarch!

 Argive wrote:
Pretty sure they are a separate element so you could magnetize them and use him as yriel if need be. Also look for some bits on ebay/swap shop. Might be able to get a set of swooping haw/scourges wings and magnetize those so that he could either be a swooping hawk Autarch or fulachus' wing relic.
Also you could just pin/magentise his head with a dire avengers to use as either Yriel or Autarch? Im sure a simple head swap will be acceptable and sufficient to distinguish the two models.

Yeah, flags are separate. Don't think the head is though.

NuhJuhKuh wrote:
I’ve been wondering what model GW intended is to use as well - I mean, isn’t the idea with Codex entries that they represent what’s currently for sale?!

I assumed that the basic Autarch on was meant to make use of the Yriel model, just not as a special character.

I guess you could just declare Yriel as an autarch just like you can use Eldrad as a generic farseer.

can you just swap out his head and he will look a lot different.

 admironheart wrote:
can you just swap out his head and he will look a lot different.

I checked. The head is, as I said, built in. You could easily enough chop it off and replace it - there are plenty of examples on Google. I doubt you could salvage Yriel's head though.

so what is everyones fave unit (s) Not necessarily the best or competitive...but the one unit you love to field and play?

Mine has to be the Suicidal Autarch Skyrunner with Nova Lance.

I now want to try him out with the new WildRider Host strat plus Nimble Escape strat.

Give him the phoenix gem instead lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mine wpuld have to be corsairs. Havent got any but am hoping to make me some gun slinging pirate space elves fo sho

Has anyone else had success running support weapon platforms?

I ran 9 Shadoweavers in a small RTT over the weekend and they did pretty well. Partly I think due to the surprise factor of no one ever seeing them, but they did work chewing thru screening units and even some heavier targets.

Wondering if 9 is too many, or if there is a more optimal number. For reference, my list was:

Farseer Skyrunner
Spiritseer
3x5 Rangers
3x3 Shadoweaver Platforms

Farseer
Warlock
2x5 Dire Avengers
5 Rangers
9 Dark Reapers

Yvraine
2 Death Jesters
Solitaire (w/Cegorach's Rose)
6 Skyweavers w/haywire and zephyrglaives

I havent.

Im looking to run a nest of 3 with a baby sitting cp farming ulthe autarch. Dont know how it will work in practice.

Seems like 9 is a bit excesdive. Maybe theres better options for you from other codex. I dont play soup of ict fornat so dunno really.

 admironheart wrote:
so what is everyones fave unit (s) Not necessarily the best or competitive...but the one unit you love to field and play?

Mine has to be the Suicidal Autarch Skyrunner with Nova Lance.

I use a Biketarch as well although mine normally just gets a Laser Lance. I do often give him the Shimmerplume Helm. Stacked with LFR, it makes him surprisingly durable.

Is there somewhere that has a breakdown by unit of tactical tips? Sort of like a entry by entry listing of each selection and how best to use it and what unit(s) work best with them?

I know it would help me and I think a lot of other people might appreciate the boost in knowledge.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Is there somewhere that has a breakdown by unit of tactical tips? Sort of like a entry by entry listing of each selection and how best to use it and what unit(s) work best with them?

I know it would help me and I think a lot of other people might appreciate the boost in knowledge.

Eldar Codex tactics 1d4chan

Oh please stop. 4chan is good for a chuckle and that's it.
Actually the first post of a threat like this could contain such a rundown, but our op here merely wanted to generqte traffic for his own site, which died two weeks in or so. No i'm not bitter.

I wonder if it is possible for moderators to do anything?

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Oh please stop. 4chan is good for a chuckle and that's it.
Actually the first post of a threat like this could contain such a rundown, but our op here merely wanted to generqte traffic for his own site, which died two weeks in or so. No i'm not bitter.

If you’re able to decipher the ramblings and ignore the past edition incorrectness.. by knowing your rules.. it can help. Better than Dakka. By far.

So, anybody enjoyed the joy of facing boosted Mental Onslaught from Genestealer Cults? Had that experience this weekend and it was interesting to experience a unit being fully deleted no matter how much health it had left.

Hey.

I'm 100% new to the Craftworlds, so I wanted to ask you guys if these units are alright to start out with.
Got them off of Ebay for a good price and will only play regular beer and pretzel games, so it doesn't have to be super competitive.

3 Serpents
1 Wraithlord
10 Wraithguards
1 Wraithknight
4 war walkers
12 swooping hawks
20 dire avengers
5 rangers
20 guardians

1 Irillyth
1 Avatar
1 Autarch with wings
1 Farseer
3 Warlocks
1 Spiritseer
Ynnari Triumvirate of Ynnead
1Hemlock Wraithfighter

That should be enough to build some fun lists, without being completely murdered, right?
Like I said, I don't want to win tournaments, but build some lists that both players can have fun with.
Mostly play against Nurgle/Khorne deamons and Death Guard and played Grey Knights and Custodes before.

If you have triumvate of ynead you are playing ynari and not craftworlds. Soulburst/ word of the phoenix is very very powerful. Also hemlocks are very very good so putting the two together will mean your opponent is not going to have a good time.. But the rest of your army looks pretty fun. Lots if high rate of fire chaff vs hordes of deamons sounds grear! Espacialy the hawks dont see them often in lists so i support.

If you have triumvate of ynead you are playing ynari and not craftworlds.

That's actually interesting, thank you.
But that's only if I put them in the list, correct?
I could just play the rest without them?

Hrothgarmr wrote:

If you have triumvate of ynead you are playing ynari and not craftworlds.

That's actually interesting, thank you.
But that's only if I put them in the list, correct?
I could just play the rest without them?

Sure, you can even have both in different detachments.

Perfect army for beer and pretzel games. Multiple different units which is what makes those style of games fun. You can run Craftworlds or ynnari depending on how you build the list. Have fun!

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
Oh please stop. 4chan is good for a chuckle and that's it.
Actually the first post of a threat like this could contain such a rundown, but our op here merely wanted to generqte traffic for his own site, which died two weeks in or so. No i'm not bitter.

So where do you recommend that I search? I found the 1d4 chan interesting but not quite what I was looking for. I was looking for something a little more tactics oriented with some synergy ideas.

I couldn't tell you a good source off the top of my head for an overview. Any good source will be outdated within half a year due to big FAQ and Ca, whilst the larger tournament meta revolves along. That's before we factor in local environment and personal taste.
I'd recommend following several sources and comparing opinions, there's tons of podcasts and youtubers to pick from. Once you have a rough understanding pick what interests you and then hit forums to ask for advice to build around what you like. Reflect and see what works, then work from there, maybe reiterate as a whole.

Youtube battle reports are great learning tools.
Tabletop tactics and strikingscorpion82 are my personal favourites.

Honestly your best bet is to read your codex. Then when you think you fine something post it here.

 Argive wrote:
Youtube battle reports are great learning tools.
Tabletop tactics and strikingscorpion82 are my personal favourites.

it all depends on how competitive you want to be, defines who you watch.

I don’t really have anything against Strikingscorpion, but, I feel that his understanding of the game and army synergies is based more on his own mini-meta rather than the wider competitive experience. His codex reviews are generally pretty thorough though, which is good. His batreps are however aimed at a completely different audience.

The Tabletop Tactics guys generally work with armies and build them up towards their “tactica” level for a game or 2, which gives a good amount of insight into their take on super (not always hyper) efficient lists for a given army. They often hit on some of the key points to take note on in their reviews, but, often their reviews are tied into the game and models they are playing for the following showcase batrep. They also dive deeper into the "why's" than most others do.

Whatever you do though, steer well clear of Warhammer TV for all advice in regards to how to build and play your army. Occasionally there will be little nuggets of info that can be applied to the competitive game, but, generally it’s things like “An Outrider detachment of 8 Landspeeders is good!” kind of thing.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Headlss wrote:
Honestly your best bet is to read your codex. Then when you think you fine something post it here.

This too!

Sure, you'll get the standard Dakka comments of "that's bad, use xyz list from abc event instead", but that's mainly because people can't think for themselves anymore and don't pick up on how to make things work.

Hrothgarmr wrote:
Hey.

I'm 100% new to the Craftworlds, so I wanted to ask you guys if these units are alright to start out with.
Got them off of Ebay for a good price and will only play regular beer and pretzel games, so it doesn't have to be super competitive.

3 Serpents
1 Wraithlord
10 Wraithguards
1 Wraithknight
4 war walkers
12 swooping hawks
20 dire avengers
5 rangers
20 guardians

1 Irillyth
1 Avatar
1 Autarch with wings
1 Farseer
3 Warlocks
1 Spiritseer
Ynnari Triumvirate of Ynnead
1Hemlock Wraithfighter

That should be enough to build some fun lists, without being completely murdered, right?
Like I said, I don't want to win tournaments, but build some lists that both players can have fun with.
Mostly play against Nurgle/Khorne deamons and Death Guard and played Grey Knights and Custodes before.

Nice collection to pull lists from. One thing to check would be to make sure you have a good mix of firepower. Some anti tank, some horde sweeping. Psychic shenanigans are your friend, and one of the strengths of the army. Doom something and watch it melt away.

You have 3 serpents, which is a good number for this size. I’d fill two with troops, and stick some wraithguard in the last one. The rangers make your third troop choice, so don’t need a ride. Alternitively, you can use that 20 man blob of guardians with the deep strike strat, and free up a WS for the other 5 WG.

HQs are to taste really. You want the farseer, sticking the spiritseer with the wraiths is never a bad plan, and the autarch gives out some nice re-rolls.

Depending on the details and upgrades, that should be a bit over 1k, and make a solid core of a fluffy mechanized eldar list. You have massed cat fire from the troops for hordes, the WG and (probably) some brightlances on the tanks for AV work. Lots of mobility, and a few tricks from the HQs.

What to add to go to 1,500, 2k or whatever is up to taste.

Hemlocks are one of our better units. Swooping hawks are not bad. War walkers are decent heavy weapon platforms. Honestly, everything is playable at the friendly level. If you want to take something that is panned as garbage and unplayable, odd are that’s just the top table tournament crowd talking. If you like it, go with it. You might need to tighten up the rest of your list a bit to compensate. But you should be able to find the pulse of your local meta and play to that level. If everyone is putting units down that they like, with less stress on efficiency, then the sky is the limit.

Kdash wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Youtube battle reports are great learning tools.
Tabletop tactics and strikingscorpion82 are my personal favourites.

it all depends on how competitive you want to be, defines who you watch.

I don’t really have anything against Strikingscorpion, but, I feel that his understanding of the game and army synergies is based more on his own mini-meta rather than the wider competitive experience. His codex reviews are generally pretty thorough though, which is good. His batreps are however aimed at a completely different audience.

The Tabletop Tactics guys generally work with armies and build them up towards their “tactica” level for a game or 2, which gives a good amount of insight into their take on super (not always hyper) efficient lists for a given army. They often hit on some of the key points to take note on in their reviews, but, often their reviews are tied into the game and models they are playing for the following showcase batrep. They also dive deeper into the "why's" than most others do.

Whatever you do though, steer well clear of Warhammer TV for all advice in regards to how to build and play your army. Occasionally there will be little nuggets of info that can be applied to the competitive game, but, generally it’s things like “An Outrider detachment of 8 Landspeeders is good!” kind of thing.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Headlss wrote:
Honestly your best bet is to read your codex. Then when you think you fine something post it here.

This too!

Sure, you'll get the standard Dakka comments of "that's bad, use xyz list from abc event instead", but that's mainly because people can't think for themselves anymore and don't pick up on how to make things work.

I agree with your points. TT analysis post battle report and reviews are indeed on point. Their bat reps are usualy less on the side of bleeding edge killer lists and more toned down for fun lists. Plus its entertainment so Ima big fan.
I suppose what I was trying to say is that you can see units in action and how they are used/perforom in battle reports. Which is next best thing to testing out for yourself. As you watch you will start realising how units are used ad that if you were playing the game you'd do things differently perhaps.

Bottom line is no substitute for exepriance.

Thanks dakkites. I'm not usually a fan of battle reports but I may give TT a try. Are there any specific battles that you recommend?

Their BR are for ulthwe craftworlds. Just check their youtube.
I like watching all fo them to get a handle on how other armies work.

Btw does anyone have a fun list that incorporates as many phoenix lords as possible? 1750pts

I've come up with 2 containing asurmen and jain zair... You would have to be liberal with the term 'good' to describe it though
Will post it later..

How is asurmen 175pt with no path of command. In fact why do none of them have path of command or invuln saves (apart form asurmen)

So what units are you guys finding that are a thorn in your army?

Hive Guard are still a pain, but not impossible.

Thinking about making a tripple elf bike list. If I do can I use lighting reflexes 3 times in a round? Once on the Fun elfs, once on the No fun elfs and once on the clown elfs?

What about the web way one?

Extra artifacts?

You can only use strategies once per round.

Yeah each strat once per round. you can use other strats same round though.

Right. I need someone with 2 or 3 books to answer this one. The 3 elf books each have escentially the same strategem. Lighting reflexes. -1 to hit for the rest of the phase. My question is are they named slightly different things so you can use each version once (each version only effects their specific kind of elf)?

Are they named exaclty the samething?

Same question about the web way deep strike strategem.

Headlss wrote:
Right. I need someone with 2 or 3 books to answer this one. The 3 elf books each have escentially the same strategem. Lighting reflexes. -1 to hit for the rest of the phase. My question is are they named slightly different things so you can use each version once (each version only effects their specific kind of elf)?

Are they named exaclty the samething?

Same question about the web way deep strike strategem.

Lightning-fast Reactions seems to be the wording in all 3, but interestingly, the Webway Stratagem is WW Strike, WW Assault or WW Portal, respectively

So you can Webway 3 times, but only LFR once

-

Also it’s interesting to note you can actually deepstrike 4 units in harlequins. Mind you it’ll cost you 6 cp. or 2 units for 2 cp

LFR maybe has the same name. ….. but are all 3 worded exactly the same or are there variations in the language...other than the 'flavor text'??

Can someone tell me if the weapon sprues for the wave serpent can fit on war walkers? Since it looks like each war walker only comes with 1 of each of the weapon options I'm trying to figure out how to arm them with double weapons. Also since the base model is supposed to be armed with 2 Shuriken cannons does the model come with those or are they only 1 per model kit?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Can someone tell me if the weapon sprues for the wave serpent can fit on war walkers? Since it looks like each war walker only comes with 1 of each of the weapon options I'm trying to figure out how to arm them with double weapons. Also since the base model is supposed to be armed with 2 Shuriken cannons does the model come with those or are they only 1 per model kit?

they can with slight modding. The weapons for WS attach at the sides where with WW they attach at the bottom. So they have a slight variance in the weapon model itself. But its a simple mod to make them work. Especially if you are going to magnetize .

 admironheart wrote:
LFR maybe has the same name. ….. but are all 3 worded exactly the same or are there variations in the language...other than the 'flavor text'??

Yes all 3 are. It’s not possible to use 3 times, at all.

 admironheart wrote:
LFR maybe has the same name. ….. but are all 3 worded exactly the same or are there variations in the language...other than the 'flavor text'??

They all have at least one major variation in tbe wording. They can only be used on specific units in their own codex.

 Marius Xerxes wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Can someone tell me if the weapon sprues for the wave serpent can fit on war walkers? Since it looks like each war walker only comes with 1 of each of the weapon options I'm trying to figure out how to arm them with double weapons. Also since the base model is supposed to be armed with 2 Shuriken cannons does the model come with those or are they only 1 per model kit?

they can with slight modding. The weapons for WS attach at the sides where with WW they attach at the bottom. So they have a slight variance in the weapon model itself. But its a simple mod to make them work. Especially if you are going to magnetize .

Thanks for the info. What about getting the weapons from a vyper sprue? Are there any other models that come with weapon sprues that the walker can use?

War walkers share heavy weapons with guardians platforms and wraithlords.

Falcon and vypers still use the old heavy weapons mounts

 admironheart wrote:
LFR maybe has the same name. ….. but are all 3 worded exactly the same or are there variations in the language...other than the 'flavor text'??

Keep in mind it's the name that matters. Same name, different text for rules=same strategem, only one can be used. Different name, same rules=different strategems, both can be used.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Thanks for the info. What about getting the weapons from a vyper sprue? Are there any other models that come with weapon sprues that the walker can use?

War walkers, Guardian Squad Platforms and Wraithlords share the same mounts. Flat thin bottom.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Guardian-Squad-2017

Falcons, Serpents and Vypers share the other Type. They have a ring at the bottom.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Eldar-Vyper-Squadron

You can follow the links to those units and see the sprues that show the differences between the weapon mounts.

Crimson Hunter Exarch... Starcannons or Bright Lances?

Thanks

SG

Brightlances unless you are really really tight on points.

 Eldarsif wrote:
So, anybody enjoyed the joy of facing boosted Mental Onslaught from Genestealer Cults? Had that experience this weekend and it was interesting to experience a unit being fully deleted no matter how much health it had left.

It is a potentially nasty power. The thing to remember is that it targets a model, not a unit. If your opponent catches something big a juicy like a Wraithknight with it, you will suffer. Against an infantry squad it is not so scary, just one dead dude.

Yeah looks nasty. Specialy if used on their 10ld character.
I feel like thats what mind war should be for us. Atm its not worth taking over exocutioner or just smiting. :(

 Argive wrote:
I feel like thats what mind war should be for us. Atm its not worth taking over exocutioner or just smiting. :(

Mind War is better than Smite in that you can pick your target (right down the model IIRC) rather than just hitting the closest enemy. We also have the ability to buff it with Hemlocks, Horrify and Swooping Hawks (maybe other Ld modifiers but these ones are off the top of my head). However the potential to do unlimited Mortal Wounds with Mental Onslaught does sound nasty. I think GSC could be a hard counter for IKs with that combo.

 ServiceGames wrote:
Crimson Hunter Exarch... Starcannons or Bright Lances?

Thanks

SG

Starcannons. I’ve got way more mileage EVERYTIME I’ve ran theme and they are way cheaper. Don’t go any other way.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
So, anybody enjoyed the joy of facing boosted Mental Onslaught from Genestealer Cults? Had that experience this weekend and it was interesting to experience a unit being fully deleted no matter how much health it had left.

It is a potentially nasty power. The thing to remember is that it targets a model, not a unit. If your opponent catches something big a juicy like a Wraithknight with it, you will suffer. Against an infantry squad it is not so scary, just one dead dude.

The problem is that it is technically a 24 inch threat radius. The power is 18 inches and the Broodlord/patriarch can move 8 inches. It has the possibility of limiting your movements if the opponent deploys near the middle of the board.

At LD11 my buddy's Patriarch did 3 wounds to my Ulthwe hemlock. No big deal. No degrading profile is amazing.

Best weapons for War Walkers in 8th?

Thanks

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
Best weapons for War Walkers in 8th?

Thanks

SG

Keep em cheap, Shuriken cannons