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No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 20:30:28


Post by: Tomsug


I hope they make the smashas more points expensive. It' s only way how to save my money and time. So much money for original models, so much time for conversions and so much work to paint the complicated model + 6 grots per model á 30p.... aaaargh


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 20:43:15


Post by: flandarz


I think the Mek Gun chassis and other options are actually pretty fairly priced. 45pts for 1 auto-hitting shot that rolls damage twice against Flyers and makes them auto-Crash is fair. 60 pts for the KMK is also fine. I'd say the Smasha needs about a 5pt increase, and the Bubblechukka probably needs a 10 pt decrease.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 20:52:07


Post by: Vineheart01


IF it gets a hyke i hope its to the chassis itself, otherwise the wazbom goes up in price too.
Bump the base cost a bit and drop the non-smasha weapons to compensate. I dont think the smasha is broken, its just the super cheap mek gun base statline for 15pts on top of the great gun is whats silly lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 20:57:57


Post by: flandarz


Alternatively, drop the price of a Wazbom too.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 21:11:59


Post by: SemperMortis


 Jidmah wrote:
Orks placing first and second in Montreal:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/d1rvb2/pandas_weekend_rundown_907908/

In additon to his Flash Gits, Steven brought a battlewagon full of tankbustas, apparently to grenade things to death. He is also back to "just" 12 smashas.

Second place went to a guy a bunch of evil suns boyz and mobbed up bad moon shootas with smashas behind it. Probably going full tellyporta assault in T2?


So he brought a battlewagon to suicide tankbustas? Seems kind of strange to me, I understand its rather effective, a single strat almost doubles the Tankbustas shots and increases damage by a significant amount, but unless its against a pair or vehicles OR an expensive knight you are just throwing points away because the enemy will then pulverize the bustas on their next shooting phase because they can't use strats unless they are outside the vehicle.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 21:31:43


Post by: JimOnMars


 flandarz wrote:
I think the Mek Gun chassis and other options are actually pretty fairly priced. 45pts for 1 auto-hitting shot that rolls damage twice against Flyers and makes them auto-Crash is fair. 60 pts for the KMK is also fine. I'd say the Smasha needs about a 5pt increase, and the Bubblechukka probably needs a 10 pt decrease.

It seems to me someone at GW must have just screwed up and swapped smashas and bubblechukkas. I don't think I'd use the bubblechukka at anything more than 35.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 21:39:04


Post by: flandarz


I agree with that. Just too swingy to count on for anything.

You know, at 35 pts, the Smasha isn't even that good. At least, by itself. The easiest fix would probably be to drop the max "squad" size for Mek Gunz from 6 to 3. A single Smasha is kinda worthless (I think the average damage per turn for it is less than 1), but 12 to 18 of them is scary. Drop the maximum you can take by half or more and suddenly it isn't so bad.

Edit: another possibility would be to take away the "separate into individual units" Ability. That'd make them much more of a liability.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 21:41:01


Post by: Jidmah


Considering the battlewagon has an 'ard case, he almost definitely had them jump out.
Pretty much every army has something worth throwing 10 tankbusta bombs at, plus you still get the other 5 rokkits and bomb squigs, and he can do all that twice.

That, or he is trying to see what else he can get away with


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 21:46:36


Post by: Vineheart01


if he manages to get that close, 10 tankbusta bombs would delete any knight in a heartbeat.

I havnt tried to do that because i can never get my tankbustas anywhere near a target. People are rightfully so quite terrified of a wagon with bustas in it lol and will gladly dump excessive firepower to get rid of it asap.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 22:26:49


Post by: SemperMortis


 Vineheart01 wrote:
if he manages to get that close, 10 tankbusta bombs would delete any knight in a heartbeat.

I havnt tried to do that because i can never get my tankbustas anywhere near a target. People are rightfully so quite terrified of a wagon with bustas in it lol and will gladly dump excessive firepower to get rid of it asap.


10 Tankbusta bombs is 20 shots on average for 7 hits with all rerolls so another 4ish for 11 total hits, with Dakkax3 that is probably another 3 hits so 14 total. Against a Knight its 7 wounds, against a 5+ Invuln its 5ish causing damage and at 3.5 a piece that is 17.5 damage, add in another strat to either shoot again, or dakka on 5s and yeah, you are probably killing the knight in 1 shot....unless he gets the 4+. The Bomb squigs are harder to say because they are so swingy. But yeah, a tankbusta bomb squad can definitely ice a knight in 1 turn.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/11 22:45:32


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Perhaps he teleported in the wagon, expelled the bustas and charged another target to protect them from return fire as best he could? I'm assuming a squad of boys also jumped upfield to offer some screening or perhaps even Grots?

Smashas will almost certainly go up in price and deservedly so in my opinion. They are too cheap and effective. Look at how many get taken.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 00:31:24


Post by: flandarz


To be fair, a lot get taken because in small numbers Smashas are pretty bad. A single Smasha is gonna get 2 shots,1.16 hits, 0.49 Wounds (against T8), and 0.85 Damage (against 4++, which is fairly common, 1.7 Damage without an Invuln), on average. Not exactly game-breaking. In order for Smashas to be worth taking, you kinda HAVE to spam them.

Though, I agree that they ARE pretty dang cheap. Cheap enough that the lack of Kultur and Stratagems doesn't hurt them at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Multiply the above by 6 (5.1 Damage and 10.2 Damage), for the amount of Smashas equivalent to a 30 strong Shoota Boy Blob. Which will get, on average, 5.82 damage against T4, Sv4+ targets, in Ranged, and another 3.75 Wounds in CC (assuming you can only get 12 of them into CC range, you didn't bring a Boss Nob, and accounting for the Charge fail chance of Evil Sunz Boyz). Doesn't seem quite so broken anymore, honestly.

Edit: Though, to be fair, the Smashas are "technically" harder to kill than the Boyz, due to higher T (5 vs 4) more Wounds (36 vs 30), a better Save (4++ vs 6++), and their "split into individual units" rule.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 07:05:41


Post by: some bloke


With the Tankbustas in a wagon, it's also possible that he's used the wagon to block LOS to the Tankbustas from the bulk of the incoming fire. Also factor in that the enemy will be depleted from a lack of a knight, and will have the rest of his army to worry about!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 07:45:57


Post by: Emicrania


SemperMortis wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
if he manages to get that close, 10 tankbusta bombs would delete any knight in a heartbeat.

I havnt tried to do that because i can never get my tankbustas anywhere near a target. People are rightfully so quite terrified of a wagon with bustas in it lol and will gladly dump excessive firepower to get rid of it asap.


10 Tankbusta bombs is 20 shots on average for 7 hits with all rerolls so another 4ish for 11 total hits, with Dakkax3 that is probably another 3 hits so 14 total. Against a Knight its 7 wounds, against a 5+ Invuln its 5ish causing damage and at 3.5 a piece that is 17.5 damage, add in another strat to either shoot again, or dakka on 5s and yeah, you are probably killing the knight in 1 shot....unless he gets the 4+. The Bomb squigs are harder to say because they are so swingy. But yeah, a tankbusta bomb squad can definitely ice a knight in 1 turn.


10 bombs + 5 bustas with rerolls, no MD or SO, is 14 (13,889 so nobody can whine that I lie) hits; which means 21.6 hits ( you reroll the DDD too, you knöw that right?). This generates 11 (10.8) W, which results in 24.5 W on 5++ or 18.4 on 4+++
This is without showing off or more dakka.
You guys can have opinion on everything but mathematics.
I suggest using this site next time mathhammer8thed.com/


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 08:03:17


Post by: Jidmah


He did agree with you though.
SemperMortis wrote:But yeah, a tankbusta bomb squad can definitely ice a knight in 1 turn.


Judging from some other threads here on dakka and on reddit it currently seems to be common wisdom that killing smashas as fast as possible is the way to handle ork lists - if that's what people are doing, I'm not surprised if the battlewagon lasts until turn 2.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 08:06:42


Post by: addnid


Tankbustas have a 5' movement, so move 8' away from the battlewagon. TB bombs have a 6' range right ?
So basically you need your opponent playing knights to leave a BW alive and within 14' of their knight.
I know knight players are usually not the most skilled players out there (it's why they play such a low bodycount army, because it is easier to play), but still...

I personally think he just shot stuff at 24', and perhaps during one game one of his opponents forgot about the TB bombs and moved a juicy target within 14' of the wagon.

Bad moon Tankbustas in a ard case BW is not a bad idea, but you need to have a strong hunch about the meta (or be in a team tournament to get properly matched up).

Last time I took Tankbustas at a tourney I played against Tau for my first match (0 vehicules), then Tzeentch + CSM (0 vehicules again) and finally a chaos list with a few vevhicules which i would have wrecked any way even without the bustas. Suffice to say they really were not needed...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 08:12:00


Post by: Emicrania


addnid wrote:
Tankbustas have a 5' movement, so move 8' away from the battlewagon. TB bombs have a 6' range right ?
So basically you need your opponent playing knights to leave a BW alive and within 14' of their knight.
I know knight players are usually not the most skilled players out there (it's why they play such a low bodycount army, because it is easier to play), but still...


That is the biggest problem, but in any decent tournament, you can safely hide at least one veichle T1 which should be enough for t2, as you should jump the grots for shield t1 and conga line then towards the runtherd.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 08:46:49


Post by: Jidmah


addnid wrote:
Tankbustas have a 5' movement, so move 8' away from the battlewagon. TB bombs have a 6' range right ?
So basically you need your opponent playing knights to leave a BW alive and within 14' of their knight.
I know knight players are usually not the most skilled players out there (it's why they play such a low bodycount army, because it is easier to play), but still...

He went 5-0 at a fairly large tournament, so it's safe to assume that his opponent were not low-skilled knights players.
Also note that one major list you need to handle is eldar fliers, tankbustas do that fairly well, and those are usually close enough to throw bombs at.

I personally think he just shot stuff at 24', and perhaps during one game one of his opponents forgot about the TB bombs and moved a juicy target within 14' of the wagon.

A spectator confirmed that he was using the battlewagon to grenade things to death, so this is a fact, not a matter of opinion.

Last time I took Tankbustas at a tourney I played against Tau for my first match (0 vehicules), then Tzeentch + CSM (0 vehicules again) and finally a chaos list with a few vevhicules which i would have wrecked any way even without the bustas. Suffice to say they really were not needed...

Tank bustas can still bomb a riptide to death, they don't roll over and do nothing just becasue they re-rolling ones instead of all their rolls. S8 AP-2 D3 is fairly versatile, you just need to find good targets for them - killing dangerous elite units like agressors, broadsides, skyweavers or havocs is not a waste of their potential.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 10:29:42


Post by: Emicrania


I really wanna know if he's deploying the wagon or not, I am gonna use that list next gt and I think it is must vs knights


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 13:36:33


Post by: Vineheart01


Good question.
On one hand, thats a crazy high value target.
On the other like Jidmah pointed out, people tend to be going for the mekgunz first so he could have been depending on that and deployed it normally.

Either way, unless the knight was moving forward, theres no way hes getting 10 models in 6" of any big vehicle or riptide until T3. And no shooting as he rolls up the field so not like hes gaining anything by doing that instead either.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 13:54:23


Post by: JimOnMars


Crazy idea...probably not worth the points.

Aegis defense line for grot shield grots. The idea being that ADL is terrain, so it can block line of sight. Grots are short enough to hide behind it and would become untargetable.

With this the loota bomb could be placed anywhere. Worth even half the points of the ADL?



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 14:09:59


Post by: Jidmah


You can just bring 25 gretchin instead of the ADL, so probably not - they can still just target the lootas to kill them, they just have worse to wound rolls.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 15:41:26


Post by: vercingatorix


Hey everyone,

Had a super fun time this weekend. I read through you questions and they revolved around bustas in the wagon.

Did I reserve it?
No, the whole point of the thing was so I DIDN'T have to reserve the tank bustas. In fact, I never reserved anything the whole tournament. I also lost my only game at CCBB to my montreal round 4 opponent because he had a bommer that could kill my bustas despite LOS or grot shield. Putting them in a wagon prevented that.

Did I use grenade strat?

I grenaded the hell out of things. I used it in 3/5 games and the only reason I didn't use it in the other two was because my opponent through everything they had at bustas to kill them or I wanted to run to a second floor to snipe a misplaced character.

1st game I used grenades to remove most of a custodes walking squad.

2nd game I used it to increase their volume to finish off an ork boys squad so they wouldn't green tide.

3rd game my opponent was simply not paying attention and moved 2 caladius grav tanks in range turn 1. My bustas nuked 2 of them (it would have been 3 but 16 rokkit shots wounded once on the other tank). That turn my warboss + flash gitz killed a knight, and my SAG mek did 8 wounds to a shadowsword, and my smasha guns finished off the third caladius. So, 3 caladius, and a knight down turn 1. it was awesome.


I had a ton of fun with those explody bois.

feel free to ask any other questions


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 15:53:17


Post by: Vineheart01


Do you feel like the +1T on the wagon was big enough to justify not letting the tankbustas fire out of it?
For me i usually dont notice much difference between T7 and T8 for a wagon, it might survive a couple more bullets, but loss of the shooting of whats inside sucks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 16:00:04


Post by: Emicrania


 vercingatorix wrote:
Hey everyone,

Had a super fun time this weekend. I read through you questions and they revolved around bustas in the wagon.

Did I reserve it?
No, the whole point of the thing was so I DIDN'T have to reserve the tank bustas. In fact, I never reserved anything the whole tournament. I also lost my only game at CCBB to my montreal round 4 opponent because he had a bommer that could kill my bustas despite LOS or grot shield. Putting them in a wagon prevented that.

Did I use grenade strat?

I grenaded the hell out of things. I used it in 3/5 games and the only reason I didn't use it in the other two was because my opponent through everything they had at bustas to kill them or I wanted to run to a second floor to snipe a misplaced character.

1st game I used grenades to remove most of a custodes walking squad.

2nd game I used it to increase their volume to finish off an ork boys squad so they wouldn't green tide.

3rd game my opponent was simply not paying attention and moved 2 caladius grav tanks in range turn 1. My bustas nuked 2 of them (it would have been 3 but 16 rokkit shots wounded once on the other tank). That turn my warboss + flash gitz killed a knight, and my SAG mek did 8 wounds to a shadowsword, and my smasha guns finished off the third caladius. So, 3 caladius, and a knight down turn 1. it was awesome.


I had a ton of fun with those explody bois.

feel free to ask any other questions


You are a fORKlore hero!
Do you jump your grots and/or run them in order to dominate th board?
Do you play the long war and start to take secondaries T3 or do you go for smashing stuff asap?
Favorite secondaries?

Congrats again man


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 16:06:20


Post by: vercingatorix


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Do you feel like the +1T on the wagon was big enough to justify not letting the tankbustas fire out of it?
For me i usually dont notice much difference between T7 and T8 for a wagon, it might survive a couple more bullets, but loss of the shooting of whats inside sucks.



Bustas are best used when double firing with more dakka, since you can't use strats on them inside wagon.

I didn't find a huge difference in toughness but I also know that my local meta has nick rose spamming marine autocannons so I'm gonna keep it T8. I never got to use the deffrolla so I think I'm gonna lose that even.


You are a fORKlore hero!
Do you jump your grots and/or run them in order to dominate th board?
Do you play the long war and start to take secondaries T3 or do you go for smashing stuff asap?
Favorite secondaries?

Congrats again man


Just living my best ork life.

I da jup them rarely. I did against chris in round 2. I got 30 grots over in position to murder 10 of his with pistols. They do run a lot. My last game I had one squad on 3 of the 4 objectives and one squad on 2 objectives preventing my opponent from scoring a point for holding an objective. That happened in multiple games where I didn't score a ton but I held my opponents to 1 or 2 points over the last 2 turns of the game letting me cement a lead.

I don't play long game, every game is over by turn 2, 3 at the latest. It's why Tau case me so much trouble. They have the staying power against me.

Favorite secondary is definitely Big game hunter cause it means they brought vehicles and my bustas are about to have a really good game.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 16:30:21


Post by: Fauk


Hello fellow Greenskins.

I have an upcoming event where I have to play three games with the following conditions:

- 2000 Points
- Max. 3 Detachments
- Stealing the initiative is impossible
- Ground Floors are LOS blocking
- No Maelstrom
- Deployment maps are: Long Site, Short Side, the one where you have circle of 9" in the middle
- Missions for all three games will be Vital Intelligence as primary and Big guns never tire (You can choose the battlefield role) as secondary.
- 1 hour and 20 minutes for every player.

I have some real trouble coming up with a good list, especially as I have never played an event where you have the same mission over and over again. Can you give me some tipps as to what units you would take and which one you don`t? I have basically the whole Codex available, as long as you do not expect absurd amounts of one unit like 9 scrapjets.



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 17:11:12


Post by: flandarz


Check the OP for the current "best" and "worst" unit choices. There's also some lists at the bottom of that post that should give you a solid idea of what works and what doesn't.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 21:58:53


Post by: addnid


 vercingatorix wrote:
Hey everyone,

Had a super fun time this weekend. I read through you questions and they revolved around bustas in the wagon.

Did I reserve it?
No, the whole point of the thing was so I DIDN'T have to reserve the tank bustas. In fact, I never reserved anything the whole tournament. I also lost my only game at CCBB to my montreal round 4 opponent because he had a bommer that could kill my bustas despite LOS or grot shield. Putting them in a wagon prevented that.

Did I use grenade strat?

I grenaded the hell out of things. I used it in 3/5 games and the only reason I didn't use it in the other two was because my opponent through everything they had at bustas to kill them or I wanted to run to a second floor to snipe a misplaced character.

1st game I used grenades to remove most of a custodes walking squad.

2nd game I used it to increase their volume to finish off an ork boys squad so they wouldn't green tide.

3rd game my opponent was simply not paying attention and moved 2 caladius grav tanks in range turn 1. My bustas nuked 2 of them (it would have been 3 but 16 rokkit shots wounded once on the other tank). That turn my warboss + flash gitz killed a knight, and my SAG mek did 8 wounds to a shadowsword, and my smasha guns finished off the third caladius. So, 3 caladius, and a knight down turn 1. it was awesome.


I had a ton of fun with those explody bois.

feel free to ask any other questions


Thanks for all dem explosiv’ Taktiks ! Do you feel like a second « no deffrolla » battlewagon for say the flashgitz for example would be possible ? Or would that be too many points and too much big stuff to hide ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/12 23:33:04


Post by: SemperMortis


 Emicrania wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
if he manages to get that close, 10 tankbusta bombs would delete any knight in a heartbeat.

I havnt tried to do that because i can never get my tankbustas anywhere near a target. People are rightfully so quite terrified of a wagon with bustas in it lol and will gladly dump excessive firepower to get rid of it asap.


10 Tankbusta bombs is 20 shots on average for 7 hits with all rerolls so another 4ish for 11 total hits, with Dakkax3 that is probably another 3 hits so 14 total. Against a Knight its 7 wounds, against a 5+ Invuln its 5ish causing damage and at 3.5 a piece that is 17.5 damage, add in another strat to either shoot again, or dakka on 5s and yeah, you are probably killing the knight in 1 shot....unless he gets the 4+. The Bomb squigs are harder to say because they are so swingy. But yeah, a tankbusta bomb squad can definitely ice a knight in 1 turn.


10 bombs + 5 bustas with rerolls, no MD or SO, is 14 (13,889 so nobody can whine that I lie) hits; which means 21.6 hits ( you reroll the DDD too, you knöw that right?). This generates 11 (10.8) W, which results in 24.5 W on 5++ or 18.4 on 4+++
This is without showing off or more dakka.
You guys can have opinion on everything but mathematics.
I suggest using this site next time mathhammer8thed.com/


The original comment was "10 tankbusta bombs would delete any knight in a heartbeat" which i took to mean 10 tankbusters throwing 10 grenades using the strat, because 10 tankbusta bombs by themselves would not kill a knight.

But again, 10 D3 is 20 shots. 20 shots= 7 initial hits (Hitting on 5s, so 3.5 are 6s for rerolls) So you get 13 normal rerolls which = 4.3 more hits for another 2.15 6s so 5.65 more dakkax3 rerolls which = 1.88 more hits and another 1.25 with rerolls, so for simplicity lets say 3 more hits for a total 3+4.3+7 = 14.3 total hits out of 20 shots. So really good results. 14.3 = 7.15 wounds against T8. Vs a 5++ that is 4.76 that go through which x3.5 = 16.68 damage on average, using 1 strat.

So to summarize, 10 tankbusters BY THEMSELVES using the grenade strat can inflict 16.68 damage against a T8 knight with a 5++.


Now if you were talking about Pamp's list that would explain the +5 tankbustas which makes your math about right But as already pointed out, this requires your opponent to get danger close to the Wagon, and anyturn the Busters are in the wagon they can not shoot because it is not open topped with a Ard case. Also, if you Teleporta the wagon it can't disgorge its passengers that turn to shoot because the strat says it happens at the END of the movement phase which means it can't just disgorge its passengers, and since you can't tellyporta turn 1 that means your busters only get to play from Turn 3 onward AND they have to survive at least 1 full shooting phase in that wagon which isn't that tough to kill, especially for a knight list which has already had 1 full turn to nuke those Mek gunz.

I have no idea how Pampreen did what he did, I would love to see a video of the game to try and learn some new tactics.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/13 14:10:08


Post by: vercingatorix


addnid wrote:
 vercingatorix wrote:
Hey everyone,

Had a super fun time this weekend. I read through you questions and they revolved around bustas in the wagon.

Did I reserve it?
No, the whole point of the thing was so I DIDN'T have to reserve the tank bustas. In fact, I never reserved anything the whole tournament. I also lost my only game at CCBB to my montreal round 4 opponent because he had a bommer that could kill my bustas despite LOS or grot shield. Putting them in a wagon prevented that.

Did I use grenade strat?

I grenaded the hell out of things. I used it in 3/5 games and the only reason I didn't use it in the other two was because my opponent through everything they had at bustas to kill them or I wanted to run to a second floor to snipe a misplaced character.

1st game I used grenades to remove most of a custodes walking squad.

2nd game I used it to increase their volume to finish off an ork boys squad so they wouldn't green tide.

3rd game my opponent was simply not paying attention and moved 2 caladius grav tanks in range turn 1. My bustas nuked 2 of them (it would have been 3 but 16 rokkit shots wounded once on the other tank). That turn my warboss + flash gitz killed a knight, and my SAG mek did 8 wounds to a shadowsword, and my smasha guns finished off the third caladius. So, 3 caladius, and a knight down turn 1. it was awesome.


I had a ton of fun with those explody bois.

feel free to ask any other questions


Thanks for all dem explosiv’ Taktiks ! Do you feel like a second « no deffrolla » battlewagon for say the flashgitz for example would be possible ? Or would that be too many points and too much big stuff to hide ?



I have grot shield to protect the second squad plus the heavy weapons means that I really don't want to move them if I can. Also inside the wagon they don't benefit from the reroll 1 aura.

Maybe if the battlewagon was like, 80 points cheaper? Usually though, it's better to just be on the board and grot shield. Even in the vect match up I'd rather just place them out of LOS then have them in wagon in most cases.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/13 14:38:03


Post by: Vineheart01


i personally dont see a point in gitz in a wagon.
Its not hard to kill and they dont benefit from auras (still get freeboota +1 thanks to opentop ACTUALLY HELPING FOR ONCE lol).
I'd rather footslog them or have them in a trukk to shoot them to midfield and then blow up giving them 3+ armors. If it doesnt blow up, just park somewhere to block stuff, which is what trukks are good for (and about all theyre good for). A wagon doing that job is around 2.5x the price for...a slightly bigger blocker. If i bring a wagon i want it to have a rolla and charge my opponent, to at least force him to take it out and not something of actual importance.
that being said i still think theyre overpriced. They, just like every other under T6 2W models, just vaporize to autocannons.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/13 16:06:28


Post by: Emicrania


 vercingatorix wrote:
addnid wrote:
 vercingatorix wrote:
Hey everyone,

Had a super fun time this weekend. I read through you questions and they revolved around bustas in the wagon.

Did I reserve it?
No, the whole point of the thing was so I DIDN'T have to reserve the tank bustas. In fact, I never reserved anything the whole tournament. I also lost my only game at CCBB to my montreal round 4 opponent because he had a bommer that could kill my bustas despite LOS or grot shield. Putting them in a wagon prevented that.

Did I use grenade strat?

I grenaded the hell out of things. I used it in 3/5 games and the only reason I didn't use it in the other two was because my opponent through everything they had at bustas to kill them or I wanted to run to a second floor to snipe a misplaced character.

1st game I used grenades to remove most of a custodes walking squad.

2nd game I used it to increase their volume to finish off an ork boys squad so they wouldn't green tide.

3rd game my opponent was simply not paying attention and moved 2 caladius grav tanks in range turn 1. My bustas nuked 2 of them (it would have been 3 but 16 rokkit shots wounded once on the other tank). That turn my warboss + flash gitz killed a knight, and my SAG mek did 8 wounds to a shadowsword, and my smasha guns finished off the third caladius. So, 3 caladius, and a knight down turn 1. it was awesome.


I had a ton of fun with those explody bois.

feel free to ask any other questions


Thanks for all dem explosiv’ Taktiks ! Do you feel like a second « no deffrolla » battlewagon for say the flashgitz for example would be possible ? Or would that be too many points and too much big stuff to hide ?



I have grot shield to protect the second squad plus the heavy weapons means that I really don't want to move them if I can. Also inside the wagon they don't benefit from the reroll 1 aura.

Maybe if the battlewagon was like, 80 points cheaper? Usually though, it's better to just be on the board and grot shield. Even in the vect match up I'd rather just place them out of LOS then have them in wagon in most cases.


One important question though, do you prefer go first or second, in case you go second, in which way that influence your playstyle?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/13 16:35:36


Post by: vercingatorix


Spoiler:

 Emicrania wrote:
 vercingatorix wrote:
addnid wrote:
 vercingatorix wrote:
Hey everyone,

Had a super fun time this weekend. I read through you questions and they revolved around bustas in the wagon.

Did I reserve it?
No, the whole point of the thing was so I DIDN'T have to reserve the tank bustas. In fact, I never reserved anything the whole tournament. I also lost my only game at CCBB to my montreal round 4 opponent because he had a bommer that could kill my bustas despite LOS or grot shield. Putting them in a wagon prevented that.

Did I use grenade strat?

I grenaded the hell out of things. I used it in 3/5 games and the only reason I didn't use it in the other two was because my opponent through everything they had at bustas to kill them or I wanted to run to a second floor to snipe a misplaced character.

1st game I used grenades to remove most of a custodes walking squad.

2nd game I used it to increase their volume to finish off an ork boys squad so they wouldn't green tide.

3rd game my opponent was simply not paying attention and moved 2 caladius grav tanks in range turn 1. My bustas nuked 2 of them (it would have been 3 but 16 rokkit shots wounded once on the other tank). That turn my warboss + flash gitz killed a knight, and my SAG mek did 8 wounds to a shadowsword, and my smasha guns finished off the third caladius. So, 3 caladius, and a knight down turn 1. it was awesome.


I had a ton of fun with those explody bois.

feel free to ask any other questions


Thanks for all dem explosiv’ Taktiks ! Do you feel like a second « no deffrolla » battlewagon for say the flashgitz for example would be possible ? Or would that be too many points and too much big stuff to hide ?



I have grot shield to protect the second squad plus the heavy weapons means that I really don't want to move them if I can. Also inside the wagon they don't benefit from the reroll 1 aura.

Maybe if the battlewagon was like, 80 points cheaper? Usually though, it's better to just be on the board and grot shield. Even in the vect match up I'd rather just place them out of LOS then have them in wagon in most cases.


One important question though, do you prefer go first or second, in case you go second, in which way that influence your playstyle?





It depends greatly on opponent, If I can hurt them then I prefer first, if it's GSC or hiding marines or something then I prefer second.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/14 08:09:28


Post by: addnid


Thanks for the imput guys !
That BWagon ain’t gonna get cheaper next CA if it appears in tournament winning lists though will it

(TBH I am pretty sure it will go down by like 20 points, which probably won’t be enough)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/14 10:54:55


Post by: Jidmah


Even if the BWs would become cheap as chips, the bigger issues that there are no units you would want to put inside them - their traditional passengers boyz, nobz, MANz and burnas all don't hit hard enough anymore, so there is not point in buying them an expensive transport.

Battlewagon lists used to drive those units into the enemy line and if just one wagon made it, it would cause havoc there. Nowadays, 20 boyz, 15 burnas or 10 nobz bounce off some troops unit and then get gunned down.

I think improving the power of PKs (remove -1 to hit? D6 damage?) might be a solution to that problem, but then we might just start tellyporting those things and still not use transports.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/14 12:40:03


Post by: Vineheart01


if they'd let is overwatch from inside the dang wagon again it wouldnt be as bad.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/14 14:28:24


Post by: Elfric


D6 might be a bit much for a PK but what about flat 3 damage
or wounds of 6's causing a MW in addition to regular damage


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/14 14:51:39


Post by: tulun


The -1 to hit is really the big thing about PKs (variable damage sucks, but if you can't even hit...)

But I'm pretty sure it would largely invalidate Big Choppas, so I doubt they'd do it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/14 17:07:30


Post by: Vineheart01


Orks generally always hit on 4s in past editions, thats not really the issue why the PK isnt that good.
Instadeath is gone and no random PK will threaten a vehicle anymore, while previously a single PK hitting something usually meant it died or got really, really hurt.

Thats the issue. Theyre expensive compared to other melee weapons, hit less with new rules, and dont really do much damage. The ability to wound anything T6+ on 3s doesnt mean much when you lack the damage or rate of attack to deal with the mass of wounds those high toughness models generally have.

If PKs either were stupid cheap, didnt have -1 to hit, or actually did a lot of damage when they DO hit they'd be fine. The AP bonus is the only real reason to want it over a bigchoppa, and usually isnt worth it in the end.

Course the other problem is killsaws, which are supposed to be PK+1 basically. If you make PKs more stable/deadly, what do the saws do now?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/14 17:26:50


Post by: Shinzra


Hello everyone, looking to collect Orks soon and wanting to find some information out before building.

From Ork Boyz point of view, are shooters the way to go overall?, so you still have 3 attacks each but the option to shoot?

Or is there benefits to slugga and chopper that I am just not seeing

cheers


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/14 17:31:50


Post by: flandarz


You definitely want SOME Shootas, but Sluggas are fine too. I think most folks go with 20/10 Slugga/Shoota ratios. Those 20 extra attacks can really add up when you're trying to get through a unit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/14 17:34:32


Post by: Vineheart01


These days its usually a mix of slugga/shoota unless you are going bad moonz.
Sluggachoppa +1 attack adds up really fast but if you are PURE sluggachoppa you are actually hurting yourself because realistically only about half are ever going to swing in melee at best, might as well have the rest be shootas and attempting to dakka as they run up to charge.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 05:25:43


Post by: ManTube


Id say footslogging boyz should be 10 shoota 20 slugga while da jumped boyz should be all shootas. Their primary purpose is early screen clearence to make holes for more dangerous threats, so 30 go up, shoot up one screen then charge another. You should get most into combat this way if you make the charge, so the 60+ attacks should be plenty to deal with a screen unit or two. And if you dont make the charge, well at least they had shootas and got to actually do something before being blown away.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 08:03:09


Post by: Gretchin66


Hello all, fairly new Ork player here. Have recently made the addition of a SSAG to my army. I usually run evil suns with a detachment of badmoons in support for my lootas. Last game a ran the SSAG in a deathskulls vanguard detachment with 3 meks w KMB which was pretty awesome. Are people generally running SSAG as badmoons or deathskulls?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 15:20:20


Post by: Jidmah


Gretchin66 wrote:
Hello all, fairly new Ork player here. Have recently made the addition of a SSAG to my army. I usually run evil suns with a detachment of badmoons in support for my lootas. Last game a ran the SSAG in a deathskulls vanguard detachment with 3 meks w KMB which was pretty awesome. Are people generally running SSAG as badmoons or deathskulls?


Usually Death Skulls, as bad moons rarely get more than one re-roll out of a round of SSAG shooting anyways. Most top lists seem to run bad moons for lootas and planes, deff skulls for SSAG and evil suns for deep strikers.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 15:34:59


Post by: Vineheart01


I run as badmoonz for the sheer fact that my entire army is usually bad moonz anyway.
Bad moonz is technicaly weaker than deathskullz for the SSAG, mostly for the damage reroll, but not by much.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 17:03:26


Post by: T1nk4bell


Not by much?
Let's say average 7 shots with str 7 without any other Bonis VS a Vehikel with toughness 7 amor 3 for easy math.
Bad moonz will do average 3,11 hits 1,55 wounds no save its 5,4 dmg average

Deff skull same amount of shots 3,11 but 2,05 wounds because of wound reroll and because of one dmg reroll it's average 9,2 dmg.
That's more than 40 % mor Effekt


Edit : someone has a link to London Gt lists and results?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 17:11:14


Post by: flandarz


Badmoonz vs Deathskulls

Both should get about 3 hits, on average. Against T8, Badmoonz will get 1.75 Wounds, while Deathskullz will get 2.45 (or so). Against a 4++, 0.88 vs 1.23, meaning 3.08 vs 4.92 (or so) Damage. This is, of course, averaged out over multiple shooting phases. As Vine said, relatively minor damage increase, but when it makes a difference, you'll feel it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 17:23:07


Post by: T1nk4bell


Minor? That's 60 % more dmg average in you're example


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 17:25:44


Post by: flandarz


Well, I mean when you're shooting things with 20 Wounds or more, 1 or 2 more a shooting Phase is kinda minor.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 17:32:47


Post by: T1nk4bell


In you're example it's 7,7 times shooting vs 4,8 times shooting against a knight it's 3 times shooting less that's hardly a lot?

I mean it means that the deffskull kills average a knight + a leman russ + a bit in the same time like the bad moonz kill a knight average


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 18:57:35


Post by: flandarz


I mean, that still means they're both taking out about 1 Knight a game. But, most importantly, Bad Moonz means your SSAG AND your Gorkanaut can both shoot twice.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 19:17:04


Post by: T1nk4bell


A normal tournament game is about 3 rounds mayb 4.
Well yes if you play a morkanaut
But that's list specific.
No prob to play loota bad moonz and sag mek deffskullz and so on. But whatever you mean it's not minor it's hugh different between both. Depend on target its 40-60% different.
It's about one deffskull sag mek = 1.5 bad moon sag mek or easier one deffskull shoots like a bad moonz with 3 d6


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 19:27:04


Post by: flandarz


Side by side, the Deathskullz is obviously better. What I mean is that Deathskullz might not be the best Kultur for everything else in that Detachment. Anything with more than 12 shots (like a Gorkanaut, Dakkajet, etc.) will be better served with Badmoonz. Running Deff Dreadz? You'll probably want them to be Evil Sunz. You can't take the SSAG in a vacuum, because you still have 1916 pts to spend on your list after that. Even with 3 Detachments, you're probably putting more than the SSAG, Grots, and a Weirdboy into the Dread Waagh (especially if you want options for your Kustom Ammo Stratagem).

Basically: the difference isn't high enough to gimp the rest of your Detachment over. The SSAG will perform just fine as pretty much any Kultur you tuck him into.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 19:50:47


Post by: T1nk4bell


Yes of course. But there are options enough they are good in deffskull and mostly there is no problem to build in there, like the most lists do.
Like double sag mek 30 grots deffskullz
Than dakka dakka dakka bad moonz double shoot lootaz
And one bat with boys and deep strike stuff.
A lot of options out there, and yes a morkanaut should be bad moonz for sure, like a dakka jet should be and so on
That just depends on the list and what you play.
250 points for a deffskull dread whaagh with two sag meks 30 grots, kustom ammo for the sag mek, 1750 points with whatever


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/15 23:10:15


Post by: mikethefish


I get that Ork are very CP dependent. How screwed am I going to be if I only bring a Battalion and an Outrider detachment?

Not to be a grumbling curmudgeon, but Detachments are my least favorite aspect of modern 40k. By a huge margin.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/16 02:10:06


Post by: flandarz


I run that at 1k and it's fine. As long as you're a bit miserly with your CP. But, yeah. 9 CP can get burnt real quick, depending on what you're running. Badmoonz Lootaz and a SSAG? You can expect to go through 6 CP a turn easy. Freebooterz Smashas and a Wartrike? You could probably end the game with CP to spare. Really depends on your load-out.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/16 02:40:07


Post by: mikethefish


 flandarz wrote:
I run that at 1k and it's fine. As long as you're a bit miserly with your CP. But, yeah. 9 CP can get burnt real quick, depending on what you're running. Badmoonz Lootaz and a SSAG? You can expect to go through 6 CP a turn easy. Freebooterz Smashas and a Wartrike? You could probably end the game with CP to spare. Really depends on your load-out.


Fair enough - I won't post entire list but the gist is...

Evil Sunz' mono-clan 2000 pts. The main elements are 90 Boyz, a Gorkanaught, a Morkanought, a Wartrike with three Snazzwagons, and the usual assortment of Gretchin and HQ selections. I use no Index options - codex items only.

Before people say it, I do get that buggies are not optimal. My thinking is that they are basically certain to all get points drops in the new CA, so I see them as a sort of "investment" that will pay off in the fullness of time. And if they continue to be overpriced? Oh well - I just really like 'em.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/16 02:45:51


Post by: flandarz


That list is very CP stingy. You're fine with a Batt and an Outrider.

Edit: only thing I'll say is that mixing vehicles and infantry tends to go poorly. Generally better to go with one or the other.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/16 07:41:37


Post by: Jidmah


T1nk4bell wrote:
Minor? That's 60 % more dmg average in you're example


I'd agree that rolling 3 or 5 for damage is a big difference, but that's just the average on something with a large standard deviation.

The SSAG is the last weapon in the entire game you should judge on averages, considering that the actual result is based on 2d6+2d6x(4d6) (assuming invulnerable save), and that's not even factoring dakka³ and re-rolls into the complexity.

Bottom line, deff skulls is more likely to impact your SSAG as re-rolling to wound and damage is more valuable than re-rolling to hit, and you will get more re-rolls on average. However, if your SSAG whiffes shots/strength or if you put 30 wounds into some dreadnought, neither culture will have an impact.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
Side by side, the Deathskullz is obviously better. What I mean is that Deathskullz might not be the best Kultur for everything else in that Detachment. Anything with more than 12 shots (like a Gorkanaut, Dakkajet, etc.) will be better served with Badmoonz. Running Deff Dreadz? You'll probably want them to be Evil Sunz. You can't take the SSAG in a vacuum, because you still have 1916 pts to spend on your list after that. Even with 3 Detachments, you're probably putting more than the SSAG, Grots, and a Weirdboy into the Dread Waagh (especially if you want options for your Kustom Ammo Stratagem).

Basically: the difference isn't high enough to gimp the rest of your Detachment over. The SSAG will perform just fine as pretty much any Kultur you tuck him into.


Deff dreads are best in deff skulls kulture though. For just dropping out of the sky and charging, nauts are much better, their niche is the dual kmb load-out, threatening hard targets and smashing a bunch of elite units while they are at it. Pure combat dreads don't have enough attacks and cost too much for what they bring.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 mikethefish wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
I run that at 1k and it's fine. As long as you're a bit miserly with your CP. But, yeah. 9 CP can get burnt real quick, depending on what you're running. Badmoonz Lootaz and a SSAG? You can expect to go through 6 CP a turn easy. Freebooterz Smashas and a Wartrike? You could probably end the game with CP to spare. Really depends on your load-out.


Fair enough - I won't post entire list but the gist is...

Evil Sunz' mono-clan 2000 pts. The main elements are 90 Boyz, a Gorkanaught, a Morkanought, a Wartrike with three Snazzwagons, and the usual assortment of Gretchin and HQ selections. I use no Index options - codex items only.

Before people say it, I do get that buggies are not optimal. My thinking is that they are basically certain to all get points drops in the new CA, so I see them as a sort of "investment" that will pay off in the fullness of time. And if they continue to be overpriced? Oh well - I just really like 'em.


The thing is, our entire army is "balanced" around burning through gretchin CP with powerful stratagems. Once your CPs are gone, orks very much feel like they have run out of steam. If you are running 90 boyz and some gretchin anyways, just bring a second battalion with 3 units of gretchin in them.

If want some more oomph in your list, I run my snazzwagon as Kustom Boosta-Blasta. Burna bombs = burna exhausts, mek speshul = rivet cannon. They are basically the same buggy, just one is way better.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/16 09:53:28


Post by: Oldman Lee



Hi all can I get some feedback on this ork list it's my first attempted at a competitve ork list so I'm not sure on the clan kultur
I don't want to use any index options as I'm not sure how long there going to be around for anyway thanks for looking



++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [51 PL, 1,028pts]



[b]Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ HQ +

Kaptin Badrukk [5 PL, 84pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Flash Gitz [13 PL, 300pts]: Kaptin
. 9x Flash Git

Lootas [13 PL, 255pts]
. 15x Loota

Mek Gunz [6 PL, 93pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [30 PL, 623pts] ++



Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Big Mek in Mega Armour [6 PL, 119pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Power Klaw

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 223pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Flyer +

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 159pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [16 PL, 344pts, -1CP] ++



Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Mad Dok Grotsnik [5 PL, 86pts]

++ Total: [97 PL, -1CP, 1,995pts] ++


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/16 11:03:36


Post by: Jidmah


List in spoilers or we'll krump ya.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/16 11:52:11


Post by: flandarz


I'm gonna assume your MA Mek is hanging back with the Smashas, so I won't address him too much. Still expensive, but with the loss of the regular Big Mek, not much you can do there.

My question is: you got a LOT of stuff that needs T1 closing with the enemy (Mad Dok, Badrukk, Boyz, Flashgitz) but you only got 1 way to get them there (Weirdboy). So, how are you planning to get them all where they need to be to be effective?

Freebooterz is kind of an "all or nothing" Kultur. A single Detachment of them isn't gonna do you a whole lot of good. I'd change it out for Badmoonz, so you can shoot twice with your Lootaz. You also probably want to have those Lootas in the same Kultur as your Gretchin. 15 Lootaz without Grot Shields is basically BEGGING for your opponent to kill them before they get to do anything.

Flashgitz and Lootaz fill the same role in your army. You really don't need both of them, especially since you have Dakkajets as well. Maybe drop one or the other and add in more Smashas (assuming you have more).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/16 21:50:45


Post by: SemperMortis


 Jidmah wrote:
List in spoilers or we'll krump ya.


I do like your signature line Jid


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 06:14:54


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Jidmah wrote:
Even if the BWs would become cheap as chips, the bigger issues that there are no units you would want to put inside them - their traditional passengers boyz, nobz, MANz and burnas all don't hit hard enough anymore, so there is not point in buying them an expensive transport.


It might be interesting to put a unit of Flash Gitz and their accompanying Grot shield grotz in it. That way you'll have 3+ Gitz and a protective unit of grots all at the same time when the BW is toast.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 06:47:53


Post by: Emicrania


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Even if the BWs would become cheap as chips, the bigger issues that there are no units you would want to put inside them - their traditional passengers boyz, nobz, MANz and burnas all don't hit hard enough anymore, so there is not point in buying them an expensive transport.


It might be interesting to put a unit of Flash Gitz and their accompanying Grot shield grotz in it. That way you'll have 3+ Gitz and a protective unit of grots all at the same time when the BW is toast.


That is not a bad idea at all, although Steven's list take advantage of the Runtherd thanks to the multiple 30* grots.
But I could use it. I prefer having my SSAG freebooterz. So I can take advantage of the +1 to hit. Even if rolled 10 damage with 6d6 last tournament....


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 07:38:31


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Emicrania wrote:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Even if the BWs would become cheap as chips, the bigger issues that there are no units you would want to put inside them - their traditional passengers boyz, nobz, MANz and burnas all don't hit hard enough anymore, so there is not point in buying them an expensive transport.


It might be interesting to put a unit of Flash Gitz and their accompanying Grot shield grotz in it. That way you'll have 3+ Gitz and a protective unit of grots all at the same time when the BW is toast.


That is not a bad idea at all, although Steven's list take advantage of the Runtherd thanks to the multiple 30* grots.
But I could use it. I prefer having my SSAG freebooterz. So I can take advantage of the +1 to hit. Even if rolled 10 damage with 6d6 last tournament....


I used it once so far and it worked quite well and makes the Flash Gitz quite survivable. Still pointwise I prefer to put them in a trukk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am attending my first GT in a couple of months from now. I don't expect to win, but hope to have some fun and not being completely useless.

Spoiler:

+++ Freebooters Battalion+++
HQ
Big Killa boss SSAG
Badrukk

TR 3x 10 Gretchin

EL
5 Nobz with Kustom shootas (go in the Big Trakk)
8 Tsankbustas with 2 Bomb squigs (go in the Chinork)

FA 2 x Kustom Boosta Blasta

HS
Big Trakk with Supa-skorcha + 2x Big Shoota
2 x Smasha gun
2 x Smasha gun

Wazbom Blastajet with Smasha guns and KFF

Chinork with Deffguns
Trukk

=========

+++Outrider Detachment - Deff+++

HQ Waboss on warbike

FA
2 x Scrapjet
Shokkjump Dragsta
Warbuggy with Big shoota

HS 7 Flash gitz (in trukk)

=======


I like my buggies and think they can work quite well in this setting because I only put vehicles on the table and everything in the list is fast. The oldscool buggy might suprise you. But at only 43 points it is a nie objective grabber and can lock down vehicles or weak infantry squads as well. They have been worth their points so far. The Big Trakk with Supa-skorcha is just something to try once. Not sure if it works but on paper it is quite nice.
Then there are the bustas in the Chinork. An awesome combination because of the warkopta's speed and ability to deepstrike from reserve withint Tankbusta range.

The buggy detachment are Deathskulls because the rerolls are to good to pass upon for the Scrapjets and the Shokkjump. I think they are just a little better then the +1 to hit for them. The 6+ invul is a nice bonus. It might be strange to put the Gitz in their detachment, but they are Freebooters anyway so that doesn't matter.

What do you think?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 08:32:19


Post by: Jidmah


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Even if the BWs would become cheap as chips, the bigger issues that there are no units you would want to put inside them - their traditional passengers boyz, nobz, MANz and burnas all don't hit hard enough anymore, so there is not point in buying them an expensive transport.


It might be interesting to put a unit of Flash Gitz and their accompanying Grot shield grotz in it. That way you'll have 3+ Gitz and a protective unit of grots all at the same time when the BW is toast.


Yeah, flash gitz or a unit of tank bustas are fine, but that's painting a big bullseye on said wagon, plus they are really expensive. But you can't bring both because of their price tag and because you can't protect both with gretchin.
However, to make the battle wagon bash or a trukk list work you need to bring multiple transports which are about equally threatening to the enemy and equally valuable to you.
In 5th-6th boyz, burna boyz and nobz did that job, in 7th MANz and minimum tank-bustas became our go-to hard-hitting units. Right now, nobz and MANz both struggle to fight their way through a rhino, burna boyz are inferior to regular boyz despite costing more and 20 boyz fold the second you lose a single one to overwatch - even 19 scarboyz with banner and Thrakka behind them will regularly fail to take out a unit of plague marines or primaris.
The only other thing that works really well in wagons is Thrakka, and no one wants to be on the receiving end of a goff bonekrusha - I ran one in a 1500 points teaching game and it almost tabled the poor lad on its own.

In oder to have a proper mech orks list would have 3-5 BW, which can be switched out for two trukks or a naut. You also need a lot of points for this, so boyz as troops choice would be preferable over tax-only gretchin.
When you run the list, you basically have one wagon with thrakka, one with flash gits/tank bustas and one with something your opponent can easily ignore (nobz/boyz), two trukks with useless trukk boyz and a naut that mostly serves to draw all the firepower turn one and then dies or crawls across the board due to degraded movement. If the other wagons/trukks had the threat level of a naut or flash gits, the list would start working, as your opponent would have to target them, and gets severely punished if he doesn't, instead of killing naut => flash gits => thrakka and then mopping up the rest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I like my buggies and think they can work quite well in this setting because I only put vehicles on the table and everything in the list is fast. The oldscool buggy might suprise you. But at only 43 points it is a nie objective grabber and can lock down vehicles or weak infantry squads as well. They have been worth their points so far. The Big Trakk with Supa-skorcha is just something to try once. Not sure if it works but on paper it is quite nice.
Then there are the bustas in the Chinork. An awesome combination because of the warkopta's speed and ability to deepstrike from reserve withint Tankbusta range.

The buggy detachment are Deathskulls because the rerolls are to good to pass upon for the Scrapjets and the Shokkjump. I think they are just a little better then the +1 to hit for them. The 6+ invul is a nice bonus. It might be strange to put the Gitz in their detachment, but they are Freebooters anyway so that doesn't matter.

What do you think?


If that wazbomm has a KFF, it'll perform ok. Mind you, most of the stuff you have in your list is overcosted by 10-20%, so you might not have a real chance against fully optimized top tier lists.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 10:46:33


Post by: T1nk4bell


MANZ struggle to kill a rhino?
A full squat without warpath, without double fight and without banner nob make average 16 dmg on a rhino. With warpath 22 ( two rhino's) and perfektly buffed ( very expensive)
Double fight +1 to wound deffskullz Banner nob and warpath its 74 dmg


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 11:19:06


Post by: Jidmah


T1nk4bell wrote:
MANZ struggle to kill a rhino?
A full squat without warpath, without double fight and without banner nob make average 16 dmg on a rhino. With warpath 22 ( two rhino's) and perfektly buffed ( very expensive)
Double fight +1 to wound deffskullz Banner nob and warpath its 74 dmg


350 points to take out a 70 point tank IS struggling and there is a good chance to still fail that. To be fair, I was thinking units of 5 MANz, as you wouldn't put 10 MANz in a BW because of passengers casualties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/d55207/pandas_weekend_rundown_914915/

No top 4 placing orks this week, but NOVA GT was over 360 players, and there is an ork among the undefeated players who didn't score enough battle points to make it to the top.

Nu Marines show up a bit, mostly scouts+agressors+some sort of long-range shooting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 12:14:29


Post by: flandarz


I still struggle to find a good place for MANz in my lists. In an infantry list, they die almost immediately due to all the AP weaponry, and in a vehicle list they're just so slow and lackluster in combat that I feel like I should have spent the points on another few Smashas or a Dread instead. Like, I get that they're real good at taking and holding Objectives, but that seems like all they're good for, and I could probably do better with just a Mob of Boyz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 13:01:31


Post by: r_squared


 flandarz wrote:
I still struggle to find a good place for MANz in my lists. In an infantry list, they die almost immediately due to all the AP weaponry, and in a vehicle list they're just so slow and lackluster in combat that I feel like I should have spent the points on another few Smashas or a Dread instead. Like, I get that they're real good at taking and holding Objectives, but that seems like all they're good for, and I could probably do better with just a Mob of Boyz.


I've been dropping units of Nobz with big choppas instead more recently. For the cost of 4 MANZ, one with killsaw, I field 8 Nobz all armed with Big choppas and an ammo runt to soak up over watch.
I use them in the same battlefield role, in the teleporter until turn 2 or 3 then drop into to murderize some tough MeQ or primaris equivalent. They're a bit quicker, more attacks hitting at str 7 with 1ap and 2 flat damage is not to be sniffed at. They're melee autocannons. Like Lootas that have a guaranteed 3 shots, that hit on 3s instead of 5s.
At 150ish points, they're cheap enough to be used as a one hit wonder as I generally pitch them up against something they're going to smash, but I don't expect them to survive too long afterwards. But in cover, they can be surprisingly resilient.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 13:26:35


Post by: Jidmah


That's actually a good idea. A unit of big choppa nobz might help me with all those primaris marines everywhere.

I'll try that during my next game against marines.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 13:56:16


Post by: flandarz


That does sound a lot better, and plays into the old Ork standby of "durability through abundance".


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 14:06:14


Post by: gungo


So the rumors are heavy we are getting a new ghazskull model soon... assuming he is a monster in combat and worth his points would he make a Goff detachment viable?
The competitive detachments have been deathskulls, badmoons, freebooterz, evilsuns for a while. I just don’t see Goff’s being worth much but ya never know.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 14:18:41


Post by: r_squared


 Jidmah wrote:
That's actually a good idea. A unit of big choppa nobz might help me with all those primaris marines everywhere.

I'll try that during my next game against marines.


The only sad thing is that they can no longer take shootas, it was always nice to plink off a few wounds from adjacent units, or help to clear away screens. Still, another 8 shots from the sluggas in the shooting phase whilst in combat can help too sometimes.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 14:19:54


Post by: Vineheart01


We had those rumors when the buggies were coming as well.
Didnt get it.

Possible to get him but they'd have to overhaul the gak out of him to make him viable. If they gave him a reroll aura i think people would go crazy over him


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 14:29:11


Post by: r_squared


 Vineheart01 wrote:
We had those rumors when the buggies were coming as well.
Didnt get it.

Possible to get him but they'd have to overhaul the gak out of him to make him viable. If they gave him a reroll aura i think people would go crazy over him


If he had a built in "orks is never beaten", then he would be pretty buff as he stands now. But I think maybe they'll tweak his aura effect for the extra attack he grants, or maybe an auto pass morale check. Perhaps even a free teleport, or Skarboys? Who knows, it'd be nice to see him buff all klans, but maybe give something a bit extra to pure Goff to bring them up.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 15:23:16


Post by: T1nk4bell


 Jidmah wrote:
T1nk4bell wrote:
MANZ struggle to kill a rhino?
A full squat without warpath, without double fight and without banner nob make average 16 dmg on a rhino. With warpath 22 ( two rhino's) and perfektly buffed ( very expensive)
Double fight +1 to wound deffskullz Banner nob and warpath its 74 dmg


350 points to take out a 70 point tank IS struggling and there is a good chance to still fail that. To be fair, I was thinking units of 5 MANz, as you wouldn't put 10 MANz in a BW because of passengers casualties.


Yea or fully buffed after telly Port they kill a 500+ point knight lke paper

Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/d55207/pandas_weekend_rundown_914915/

No top 4 placing orks this week, but NOVA GT was over 360 players, and there is an ork among the undefeated players who didn't score enough battle points to make it to the top.

Nu Marines show up a bit, mostly scouts+agressors+some sort of long-range shooting.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 16:59:03


Post by: flandarz


To fully buff them after a Tellyport and kill a Knight, you'd need to:

1) clear all the chaff units protecting it.

2) already have Ghaz, a Weirdboy, and a Banner Nob within 6" (or so)of that Knight

3) make a 9" charge (8" if Evil Sunz).

4) hope that Knight doesn't kill enough of your MANz via Overwatch to survive your attack and stomp your MANz into the ground.

I'm sure it can be done, but if you're at the point where it becomes possible, you've probably already won the game anyway.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 17:02:39


Post by: Stekk


Give me some recommendations for this list lads, was wanting to add in another flyer and maybe a 3rd buggie. I just can't decide if I want a wazbom or a 3rd dakkajet, and whether I'd want to keep rolling with the flyboys theme and get a 3rd scrapjet or maybe try another buggie. I'd probably consolidate the boyz into one big group and get rid of the trukks to make room for points. I was also debating putting the wartrike into my vanguard, making him my warlord and giving him the finkin cap for brutal but kunnin' and might it right, and using another big mek w/ SAG for my outrider HQ.

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [58 PL, 1,123pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 80pts]: Big Killa Boss, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 186pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
. 12x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. 10x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [7 PL, 92pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Stabba, Slugga
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
. 10x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Heavy Support +

Morkanaut [15 PL, 310pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Kustom Mega-zappa, 2x Rokkit Launcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [3 PL, 67pts]: Big Shoota, Wreckin' Ball

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Orks) [18 PL, 380pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ HQ +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 40pts]
. DeffKopta: Twin Big Shoota

Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 110pts]
. Megatrakk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota

Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 110pts]
. Megatrakk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Orks) [29 PL, 497pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Blood Axes

+ HQ +

Boss Snikrot [4 PL, 70pts]

+ Elites +

Kommandos [4 PL, 93pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 9x Kommando

Nob with Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 77pts]: Kustom Shoota

Nobz [7 PL, 95pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa

Nobz [7 PL, 95pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [3 PL, 67pts]: Big Shoota, Wreckin' Ball

++ Total: [105 PL, 2,000pts] ++

Created with Battlescribe


I guess as a note, I'm trying to avoid index options as much as I can, just because I don't own any of the indexes

/e
I just noticed after I posted I forgot to put the battalion as a specialist detachment for the relic SAG


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 18:49:41


Post by: flandarz


Do you want optimization recommendations, or just some advice on how to play that list?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 20:09:16


Post by: Stekk


A bit of both really, I don't really plan on entering a tourney anytime soon but most of the people I play with tend to use competitive lists, some for the sake of practicing for tournaments. I also just thought of asking before I spent money on more models lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 20:16:01


Post by: flandarz


Main thing I see is that you should probably drop the PK, Power Stabba, and Big Shootas from your Boy Mobs. In almost every situation, you'll be better off spending those points on more Boyz. Drop one Mob down to 10 models, and get the other as close to 30 as you can. That way you can Mob them up and Da Jump them somewhere that'll scare your opponent. Alternatively, just go with 1 30 Boy Mob, so you can Greentide them in when they take causalities.

Take a couple of Ammo Runts with your Nobz, to eat the explosion when your opponent pops the Trukk. Maybe use Evil Sunz for that Detachment instead of Blood Axes, since it's so CC heavy.

Don't see a whole lot else to critique here. Outside of a tournament setting, it should play just fine.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 21:42:42


Post by: An Actual Englishman


gungo wrote:
So the rumors are heavy we are getting a new ghazskull model soon... assuming he is a monster in combat and worth his points would he make a Goff detachment viable?
The competitive detachments have been deathskulls, badmoons, freebooterz, evilsuns for a while. I just don’t see Goff’s being worth much but ya never know.


I wouldn't count on a new Ghaz, the source for that rumour claimed another bunch of things that have been proven false (Marine supplement releases every 2 months, Salamanders and IF next releases). It's very likely bull gak.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 21:53:57


Post by: Vineheart01


Not to mention the next big thing is the whole psyker thing, which every faction is supposed to get something for.

I would find it unlikely Ghaz would be the ork part of that. If anything beyond simply a lethal weirdboy (i.e. one that can actually do something other than cast a spell) we'd be getting good ol' Zogwort back finally.
Highly doubt he will have his squigify ability but one can hope


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 22:07:08


Post by: flandarz


I'd be happy with another Psyker option. Ooo! Or Mad Boyz! Those would be neat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/17 22:43:18


Post by: An Actual Englishman


I don't think a new unit (if the faction is lucky enough to receive one) necessarily has to be related to psychics and psykers at all. The first releases for this campaign are Banshees, Jain Zar, Incubi and probably Drahzar. Not exactly psychically focused units themselves.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 00:03:08


Post by: SemperMortis


If we get a new model and its not Old Zogwort I'll be pissed


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 03:21:51


Post by: Grimskul


SemperMortis wrote:
If we get a new model and its not Old Zogwort I'll be pissed


This. It would HUGELY wasted opportunity if they didn't have him alongside a plastic Weirdboy as one of the releases for this. Give us back the ability to poof characters into squigs dammit!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 05:04:33


Post by: Tomsug


Hi guyz,
do you have some experience with the Blood Axe shoota boyz in deepstrike? My army is multi SAG + lootas + smg shooting blob with wazboom and jet support. I need a support = boots on ground to catch objectives and keep them.

the idea is use the cheap 1CP Bloodaxe “teleport” to deepstrike blobs of 20 shootaboyz around the objectives on the field. (Let' say 2 units for total of 2CP for 40 boyz in T2) They have 18” range and 40 shots, one boy on terrain feature = they have a cover + can fell back and shoot = if charged, fire overwatch, are target of fight, fight back, fell back, fire, fire overwatch, are beaten.

The lack of Badmoons 1reroll and maximum number of boyz is not optimal, I know. But cheap deepstrike, more gunz in total, better save (but almost everything is now -1...), and fell back trik...

Plus you can take a Morgon finking cap to regain CP on 6+ = in average about +3CP per game with 3bat. Plus you can taky 70p Snikrot = super cheap hq with deepstrike.

Any experience?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 07:33:37


Post by: Jidmah


 Tomsug wrote:
Hi guyz,
do you have some experience with the Blood Axe shoota boyz in deepstrike? My army is multi SAG + lootas + smg shooting blob with wazboom and jet support. I need a support = boots on ground to catch objectives and keep them.

Yes, I do. Short answer: Don't run blood axes unless you want snikrot.

the idea is use the cheap 1CP Bloodaxe “teleport” to deepstrike blobs of 20 shootaboyz around the objectives on the field. (Let' say 2 units for total of 2CP for 40 boyz in T2) They have 18” range and 40 shots, one boy on terrain feature = they have a cover + can fell back and shoot = if charged, fire overwatch, are target of fight, fight back, fell back, fire, fire overwatch, are beaten.

First of all, cover requires all models of a unit to at least touch terrain. Second, a unit of 20 boyz isn't actually hard to remove and 18" isn't a large range at all. Even shoota boyz fight better than they shoot, so why would you want to fall back? Assuming there is anything left to fall back after they took a charge of course.
You are much better off just using gretchin or kommandoz for that job.

The lack of Badmoons 1reroll and maximum number of boyz is not optimal, I know. But cheap deepstrike, more gunz in total, better save (but almost everything is now -1...), and fell back trik...

My experience with Blood Axes are that you will rarely, if ever benefit from the cover part, and fall back almost never matters as either your enemy has fallen back or was wiped out before you get a chance to, or your unit has been wiped out. Falling back only makes sense against pure tarpit units, and boyz usually plow right through those. The other ork player in our group confirmed that he thinks the same.

Plus you can take a Morgon finking cap to regain CP on 6+ = in average about +3CP per game with 3bat.

The cap nets a maximum of 1 CP per battle round, and you usually blow through all your CP in turn 1 and 2. In my experience, the warlord trait nets 0-2 CP.
The one cute trick you can do with blood axes is reserve a Banner Nob with 1 CP and give him the "Follow me, ladz" warlord trait for +1 CP. You can now drop Waaaagh!, Breaking Heads and Banner aura wherever you need it.

Plus you can taky 70p Snikrot = super cheap hq with deepstrike.

Any experience?

Snikrot is pretty much the only reason to ever pick bloodaxes - if you want him, 3 units of bloodaxe gretchin and 1 weirdboy (who doesn't care about clans) are as many blood axes as you need.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 07:42:48


Post by: Orkimedez_Atalaya


Given that you play Blood axes and you want some infiltrating units, I would say, look no more! Komandos should be your choice. Only 1 more than a normal boy and the deep strike is free.

If you are looki g for objetive campers, use grot.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 14:11:19


Post by: flandarz


I think, if you REALLY want Snikrot, you might be good using a Supreme Command Detachment instead of a Battalion. Get the sneaky boy and a couple of Weirdboys for less than 200 pts. And they should all benefit from the Kultur.

Only real issue I got with Blood Axe Battalion is that those Grots aren't gonna be too useful for ya, since Grot Shield is Kultur locked.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 14:18:05


Post by: Tomsug


Jidmah - thanks, you confirmed all my doubts and add couple of others but the trick with the banner is cool. Except one think - blood axe get the cover if one model from the unit is on the terrain feature. So one boy in cover = all boyz in cover. But it also doesn' t work great.

Orkimedez - I have kommandos already. Full of index weapons. Not so great as was expected. Especially burnas sucks because of range. I shot with them once and do nothing last tournament. I had 30 sluga boyz and 2 kommandos as evil sunz and it sucks. Now I was thinking about

A) switch them to Blood Axes shootaboyz and maybe change 2 kommandos + 1 30slugaboyz for 2x20shootaboyz - after Jidmah' s full covering report = no go.
B) switch them to Bad Moons shootaboyz and switch the burnas for big shootas and share the grots for grot shield with second bad moonz batalion. This seems to be better.

Grots are far to be good for sitting objectives. 5 GAT/MAT comes and annihilate them in one turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only question is the hq - one weirdboy is obvious. But second? Evil sunz warboss on warbike with relik klaw was great. But as Bad Moonz? Maybe give him thinderbuss....


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 14:50:06


Post by: Jidmah


 Tomsug wrote:
Jidmah - thanks, you confirmed all my doubts and add couple of others but the trick with the banner is cool. Except one think - blood axe get the cover if one model from the unit is on the terrain feature. So one boy in cover = all boyz in cover. But it also doesn' t work great.

Codex:Orks wrote:A unit with this kultur gains the benefit of cover, even while they are not entirely on or in a terrain feature, if the enemy model making the attack is at least 18" away.

You are misreading that. You don't get the first part without being 18" away.


Orkimedez - I have kommandos already. Full of index weapons. Not so great as was expected. Especially burnas sucks because of range. I shot with them once and do nothing last tournament. I had 30 sluga boyz and 2 kommandos as evil sunz and it sucks. Now I was thinking about

A) switch them to Blood Axes shootaboyz and maybe change 2 kommandos + 1 30slugaboyz for 2x20shootaboyz - after Jidmah' s full covering report = no go.
B) switch them to Bad Moons shootaboyz and switch the burnas for big shootas and share the grots for grot shield with second bad moonz batalion. This seems to be better.

Grots are far to be good for sitting objectives. 5 GAT/MAT comes and annihilate them in one turn.

I think you are misunderstanding the job of objective campers. Their one an only job is to sit on an objective and generate VP and/or prevent stuff like a rhino or deep strikers from getting quick VP out of them with little investment(depending on mission). Anything durable and powerful enough to fight off a unit that is dedicated to clearing out objectives, like terminators, DG drones or a unit of da jumped boyz should not be sitting on an objective, but take the fight to the enemy instead.
Gretchin are optimal for this job because any unit that comes for them will be multiple times their costs - their main defense is being small and out of sight. Any gun good at clearing out gretchin should be either out of range or busy with killing the ork boyz you are jumping in their face anyways.
The only exceptions are forward objectives in the middle of the board or on a less protected flank of your opponent. To take those you either use maximum units of boyz, snikrot, kommandoz or MANz, but that's not exactly objective "sitting".

The only question is the hq - one weirdboy is obvious. But second? Evil sunz warboss on warbike with relik klaw was great. But as Bad Moonz? Maybe give him thinderbuss....

Second one is usually needed if you are facing lots of assassins. Otherwise, just keep them out of range and sight of snipers. A bad moons warboss on warbikes with relic klaw is just as great as an evil suns one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 15:59:56


Post by: flandarz


Idea: Snakebitez Dread Waagh with a 6 model unit of Rokkit Killa Kanz supported by a KFF Mega Mek with Surly as a Squiggoth. Throw em in a Tellyporta, and on T2 drop em out and Da Jump the Mek into the center of the of them. Kustom Ammo double shoot something you want dead. Snakebitez Warlord Trait will protect you from Morale losses and KFF will help with ranged attacks, so whether to charge them in or not is up to you (Take Saws for 30 attacks to make up for the poor WS).

Probably not optimal, but it'd certainly be a surprise to anyone who thinks Kanz aren't good. Risky though, since the Kanz explode based on slain models and not the unit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 16:02:56


Post by: Jidmah


Kanz can't tellyport...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 16:05:00


Post by: flandarz


Dammit! You're right. I should have remembered, since I knew they couldn't use Ramming Speed. Kanz need more love. Definitely too slow to foot slog their way to a target, and too bulky to hide and hope they come to you. Nevermind.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 16:07:14


Post by: Vineheart01


Kanz almost JUST need to be excluded from the gretchin exclusion crap and they'd be fine.
Not perfect, but playable.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 16:07:59


Post by: flandarz


I agree.

Edit: Kanz with Kultur and Stratagems would probably be a solid Light Blue. At least Blue tier.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 19:01:49


Post by: Emicrania


Do you guys think are they gonna come out with the big faq next week or ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 19:23:57


Post by: flandarz


This is GW. It could be anytime between now and the heat death of the universe, and you'll never know until 30 seconds before it drops.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 19:51:10


Post by: Vineheart01


GW acts like they have a schedule for such things but in reality its just whenever they feel its ready.
Could suddenly get it next week or end of the year...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 20:13:10


Post by: An Actual Englishman


The Big FAQ is unlikely to change much anyway.

GW believe (wrongly) that they have answered many of the questions regarding odd rules interactions.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 20:20:24


Post by: Jidmah


 Emicrania wrote:
Do you guys think are they gonna come out with the big faq next week or ?


They are currently in full hype-mode for their psychic awakening campaign. I doubt they drop the Chapter Approved during that time. I'm expecting it to come out near the end of Novemeber/start of December.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 20:49:29


Post by: ikeulhu


Big FAQ will most likely be on the 30th. That way it still happens in September like it is supposed to, but keeps us waiting to the last minute like GW tends to do.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 22:02:08


Post by: Cjsuner


Hey Guys,

It's been a long time since I have played, 5th edition was the last time.
I have kept my Evil Sunz based ork army though, and I am looking to revive the whaaaagg! But form what I can tell, the 4th/5th ed tactics are far gone, and the joys of throwing boyz in trukks and throwing them at the enemy is far gone. And so is the Nob Bikers + biker boss deathstar tactics... All of which is what my current models were based on. The army used to do well, but from what I can tell, it's not so anymore.

Is it just time for me to throw in the towel and pretty much start from scratch? Plus, the new rules with detachments and stuff are still slightly confusing to me, but I'm sure that as I get into the rulebook more, it will be more clear.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/18 23:29:50


Post by: flandarz


Depends on how competitive your meta is. You could make a decent Speed Waagh style list, but it certainly won't be optimal.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 05:48:54


Post by: Jidmah


 Cjsuner wrote:
Hey Guys,

It's been a long time since I have played, 5th edition was the last time.
I have kept my Evil Sunz based ork army though, and I am looking to revive the whaaaagg! But form what I can tell, the 4th/5th ed tactics are far gone, and the joys of throwing boyz in trukks and throwing them at the enemy is far gone. And so is the Nob Bikers + biker boss deathstar tactics... All of which is what my current models were based on. The army used to do well, but from what I can tell, it's not so anymore.

Is it just time for me to throw in the towel and pretty much start from scratch? Plus, the new rules with detachments and stuff are still slightly confusing to me, but I'm sure that as I get into the rulebook more, it will be more clear.


Welcome back! If you post a list of stuff you have, we can turn that into a semi-working army.
Bad news on the nob bikers though - Waaagh! Banner is gone, pain boy on bike has turned into an index-only character and nob bikers themselves are massively over-costed unit with low hitting power. I'm currently turning mine into warbikers, which are slightly less terrible.
The good news is that speed freaks got a pile of new awesome models which are a couple of point breaks short from becoming decent - but GW is noew actually regularly reviewing points twice a year, rather than once per decade.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 15:17:13


Post by: some bloke


If Ghazzie does arrive on the scene again, I would like to see him having a "Klans Unite" ability (because, you know, he united the klans) where you can mix units in your army and still benefit from culture traits etc.

He should also get better the more boys you have - perhaps having a 6+++, which gets +1 for every unit of 10 or more Orks within 12", to a max of 3+++, thus the more of a horde of boys he's in, the more orks believe he can't be killed, and thus he becomes harder to kill. This would offset the fact that the'll have over 10 wounds and so be ultra-targetable. anyone focussing on him instead of his battery would be making a mistake.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 15:26:22


Post by: barontuman


 some bloke wrote:
If Ghazzie does arrive on the scene again, I would like to see him having a "Klans Unite" ability (because, you know, he united the klans) where you can mix units in your army and still benefit from culture traits etc.

He should also get better the more boys you have - perhaps having a 6+++, which gets +1 for every unit of 10 or more Orks within 12", to a max of 3+++, thus the more of a horde of boys he's in, the more orks believe he can't be killed, and thus he becomes harder to kill. This would offset the fact that the'll have over 10 wounds and so be ultra-targetable. anyone focussing on him instead of his battery would be making a mistake.


Cool ideas, but that'd make him way OP. The Klans Unite power would have to be a aura, otherwise he's always be in every list with no downside.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 15:55:52


Post by: Vineheart01


Yeah i dont see that happening.
That is the reason why i said he shouldnt be clanlocked though. He still is Goff, but like Freeboota he can be taken in any list.

An aura to buff the kulture would be neat though. That could easily get out of hand quickly, however.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 16:56:15


Post by: flandarz


I'd like to see him get the G-Man treatment, but without a Kultur lock. Give him CC buffs instead of ranged ones, like additional Advance and Charge distance, more attacks or Strength or AP, FnP aura, etc. Give him the tools to thrive as a 10+ Wound character (even a copy of the G-Man thing where he can come back to life). As a LoW, you'd need to make one of your Detachments into a Supreme Command or Super Heavy, so he wouldn't necessarily be an "auto-take" even if he was real good (since we're so CP dependent).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 17:28:16


Post by: Jidmah


Why would he go over 10 wounds though? Even as primork, he is more in the league of daemon princes and gulliman than Mortarion or Magnus. He is already pretty difficult to handle for many armies, once he hits their ranks. His main problem right now is getting there.

Having him improve the movement of GOFF units near him while unlocking him for all clans seems like a great idea though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 17:52:28


Post by: Vineheart01


yeah i dont see a reason for him to go above 8 wounds. Not even a self-heal makes sense for him since hes not any better than other orks in terms of regeneration.
Though i'd probably want a painboy following him around anyway lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 22:25:48


Post by: Grimskul


At most bump him to 9 wounds so he still has the character protection. I'd have his attacks up to 6 too since honestly it feels weird he has less attacks than the head honchos of other factions. Make him unlocked for all Klanz like mentioned by others and give something in addition to his current +1 attack aura, I feel like its too conditional and doesn't add enough to reflect his kunnin'. Maybe +1 to advance and charge rolls?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 23:43:04


Post by: SemperMortis


 Grimskul wrote:
At most bump him to 9 wounds so he still has the character protection. I'd have his attacks up to 6 too since honestly it feels weird he has less attacks than the head honchos of other factions. Make him unlocked for all Klanz like mentioned by others and give something in addition to his current +1 attack aura, I feel like its too conditional and doesn't add enough to reflect his kunnin'. Maybe +1 to advance and charge rolls?


Girlyman used to give rerolls to hit and wound for all Ultramarines in his army. I don't see why Ghaz's shouldnt be just as crazy good for Goffs, might make Goffs worth taking again. +1 attack for all Units within 6' AT THE START of the charge phase and reroll all hits and wounds for Goff units within 6' of Ghaz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/19 23:49:22


Post by: flandarz


Let him take a Banner Grot that gives +1 to hit in CC to units within 6". That'd be gross. Hahaha!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 01:44:30


Post by: JNAProductions


Do you really want to warp the Ork codex around Ghaz?

He should be good, but not an auto-take.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 02:25:28


Post by: flandarz


Well, he DOES cost more than a full 30 pack Boy Mob. I would hope he'd be able to, at least, provide the same value that they do.

But I agree. Part of why I think he should be an LoW instead of an HQ. It's harder to fit a LoW into your list, just because you're gonna be losing up to 4 CP to do so. At least. A Supreme Command with Ghaz and 3 Weirdboyz is gonna run ya over 400 pts, and give you 1 CP, versus 210ish pts for a Battalion with two Weirdboyz and 30 Gretchin.

Basically, he should be good enough that, as a LoW, he's worth the loss of CP and the 250ish pt pricetag.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If he stays as an HQ, literally just dropping the Kultur lock would be plenty, in my eyes. Maybe a point drop so he doesn't cost twice what every other HQ option does.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 06:13:48


Post by: An Actual Englishman


I agree that Ghaz shouldn't be an auto include for every Ork army but at the moment he just isn't taken in competitive play so he certainly needs a buff if he receives a new model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also hope it's a dual MA warboss kit and they get some sort of buff too.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 07:37:14


Post by: some bloke


My biggest hope is that they bring out a plastic kit which could make Ghazzie or a megaboss, and the megaboss makes a comeback.

What if ghazzie has a "quit yer squabblin'!" rule which means, as long as he's alive, cultures don't matter for mixing (you can embark or use grot shields between klans), but as soon as he dies, the old animosity comes back?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 08:20:53


Post by: Jidmah


Ghazghkull doesn't really need any help in form of melee buffs. Goff boyz near him already murder anything, especially when upgraded to scarboys. I had 20+ scar boyz (don't remember how many exactly) with Thrakka and Banner support one-round an enemy PBC, the only other model to ever do that was Abbaddon himself. He also is tough as nails, due to 2+/4++/T6/8W he is way more durable than DP and many other hard to kill characters and he pretty much minces anything he touches due to his goff trait, extra attacks from his own aura and the built-in relic klaw.

The one problem is, you can't get him where you need him. Tellyporting and jumping is unreliable, transports suck and we all know how walking across the board works out. If he had the movement speed of smash captains, winged princes or tyrants, his points would be right on spot.

So giving him an ability that gets him (and ladz around him) into combat faster (like +1 to move/charge/advance) would probably best for him.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 12:37:40


Post by: flandarz


I almost feel like the Goff Kultur should have just been an army-wide +1 to Strength, with Skarboyz giving -1 to AP, and the Warlord Trait giving a +1 to Attack within 6". Probably would have made the whole Kultur far more viable.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 12:54:49


Post by: Jidmah


Yeah, +1 strength would have been much more versatile than even more attacks. Or change the skarboyz stratagem to 1/2/3CP for 1/3/5 mobs. Or just flat 2or3 CP to update all of them - that would even help battlewagons and trukks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 13:14:02


Post by: hollow one


I'm very far down the rabbit hole for list building right now as I'm trying to get ahead of the marine meta. Looking for some feedback on which list YOU think is best in ITC tournament settings in the advent of our new iron hand lords. There is a high amount of imperial car parks in my meta, and Australia is generally pretty skewed towards super heavies. GSC is gaining a lot of ground too, however.

LISTS!
#1
Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [25 PL, -1CP, 504pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Tankbustas [13 PL, 255pts]
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 14x Tankbusta: 14x Rokkit Launcha

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [54 PL, 1,052pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

+ HQ +

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 99pts]: Attack Squig, Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Shoota (Index), Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 215pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 215pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 215pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

+ Fast Attack +

Stormboyz [10 PL, 184pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. 18x Stormboy

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Orks) [21 PL, 444pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

++ Total: [100 PL, -1CP, 2,000pts] ++
This is a turn 2 or 3 list that seeks to guarantee recon and behind enemy lines. Clearing the way with dakka jets before setting up 90-ish boys to charge turn 2, maybe deepstriking one blob, jumping one, and stormboyz afterwards. this is a turn 1 tankbusta jump to cripple, turn 2 win the game list.

#2
Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [39 PL, 804pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Big Mek on Warbike (Index) [6 PL, 101pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Tankbustas [13 PL, 255pts]
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 14x Tankbusta: 14x Rokkit Launcha

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [49 PL, -1CP, 964pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins

+ HQ +

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 99pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 215pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 215pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

+ Fast Attack +

Megatrakk Scrapjet [5 PL, 110pts]
. Megatrakk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota

Stormboyz [10 PL, 193pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. 19x Stormboy

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [10 PL, -1CP, 232pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 80pts]: Da Souped-up Shokka, Opportunist, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

++ Total: [98 PL, -2CP, 2,000pts] ++
Similar to list 1, but with a little more spice (scrapjet) and a tripple battalion instead, more CP less boyz, one more weirdboy.

#3
Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [49 PL, 1,024pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Big Mek on Warbike (Index) [6 PL, 101pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Tankbustas [13 PL, 255pts]
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 14x Tankbusta: 14x Rokkit Launcha

+ Fast Attack +

Megatrakk Scrapjet [10 PL, 220pts]
. Megatrakk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota
. Megatrakk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [36 PL, -1CP, 528pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 101pts]: Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

+ Troops +

Boyz [4 PL, 75pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [4 PL, 75pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [4 PL, 75pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

+ Elites +

Nobz [14 PL, 127pts]: Ammo Runt
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [24 PL, -1CP, 448pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 80pts]: Da Souped-up Shokka, Opportunist, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

+ Heavy Support +

Battlewagon [8 PL, 139pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla

Battlewagon [8 PL, 139pts]: 'ard Case, Deff Rolla

Mek Gunz [4 PL, 90pts]
. Gun: Traktor Kannon
. Gun: Traktor Kannon

++ Total: [109 PL, -2CP, 2,000pts] ++
This list is leaning on the durability of battlewagons. One wagon is filled with tankbustas and is a must kill, the other with nobz. This gives your dakka jets and scrapjets time to play (ideally). This is a threat overload list. Boyz might be the wrong answer here, and it might be just add smasha gunz.

#4
Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [42 PL, -1CP, 832pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Choppa, Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Shoota (Index)
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Tankbustas [13 PL, 255pts]
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 14x Tankbusta: 14x Rokkit Launcha

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [50 PL, 945pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

+ HQ +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]

Warboss [4 PL, 80pts]: Attack Squig, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [4 PL, 75pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [4 PL, 75pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 215pts]
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

+ Heavy Support +

Bonebreaka [9 PL, 159pts]: Deff Rolla

Bonebreaka [9 PL, 159pts]: Deff Rolla

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [10 PL, 222pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Mixed

+ HQ +

Boss Snikrot [4 PL, 70pts] <Blood Axe>

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts] <Bad Moon>

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts] <Bad Moon>
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts] <Bad Moon>
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts] <Bad Moon>
. 10x Gretchin

++ Total: [102 PL, -1CP, 1,999pts] ++
This list isn't good, but there are some ideas I like. Bonebreakas smash marines and are tough as nails for them to deal with. If you cripple their anti tank with tankbustas you have 36 wounds of battlewagon doing work for quite some time. I also think Snikrot is going to be mint vs marines, and you have the 30 badmoon shoota boyz here for screen clearing unlike other lists. I cant decide if i want to run at people or counter charge with this list, but i'm glad it has the flexibility.



I would love your opinion as to which you would play in a marine heavy meta and what changes you would make. I clearly have some favourites, like the SSAG, tankbustas, and maybe even dakkajets, but i'm open to most competitive choices. I have 16 mek gunz, lootas and flashgitz waiting too, but I think mek gunz/lootas are a liability unless you build a castle, and I'm not into that playstyle. I really enjoy the charge phase. Aaaaand I dunno, flashgitz might be awesome but I'm not willing to paint another 100 grots yet.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 13:25:56


Post by: Vineheart01


thats sorta my problem with Goffs.
The exploding 6s is nice but generally not needed. Either they overkill what they were charging even without that extra attack, or they were unlikely to do damage in the first place so probably did an extra wound or two in the end.
Armywide +1 strength would have been far better as that breaches all our units' across a major threshold: S4>S5. We'd wound literally everything on 5s or better unless they had a -1 to wound somewhere.
Wounding on 5s is far better than extra attacks on 6s.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 13:32:48


Post by: Jidmah


None of those strike me as particularly powerful. The first two are lacking in the shooting compartment, and IMO 20 stormboyz don't make sense, go 30 or go home.

In the other two I think you are overestimating the durability of wagons - the main weakness is their 4+ armor, so even when wounding on 6s, just bolters and krak grenades (intercessor launch them at 30") can take big chunk out of them, especially when they get -1AP from their doctrine.

If I had to pick, the first one is probably the best one, though it could use wazbom or some smashas for extra ranged oomph.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 14:11:29


Post by: Vineheart01


Yeah wagons really dont last that long.
They last long enough to soak up a fair amount of firepower but thats about it. I pretty much only use them as suicide units these days: T1 charge via the wartrike, it tends to eat all the firepower instead of my actual important stuff because its an immediate threat.
Every time i have tried to make a wagon the focal point of my list, the list flops hardcore. And i love wagons, i have 5 of the dang things after all lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 15:50:36


Post by: flandarz


So Loot It gives a +1 to the unit's Save Characteristic, right? So, if I used it on Ghaz or Badrukk or a character with Da Best Armor, you should be able to improve their Invuln Save too, I think. Though I kinda think it wouldn't work with a KFF.

Reason I think it might work is the FAQ that says improvements to Saves apply to Invulns, unless stated otherwise. And, honestly, a Ghaz with a 3++ would be pretty damn hard to deal with.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 15:57:16


Post by: Vineheart01


Improvement to saving throws apply to invuls, not the stat modifier stuff.
Invuls are not a stat, theyre granted by a rule. The Loot It! stratagem specifically increases their save characteristic, not +1 to the roll


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 16:14:21


Post by: flandarz


Fair nuff. Was trying to see if Ghaz could be made a bit more viable by sacrificing a Trukk. Guess you're still better off with a Badmoonz Trait, Supa Cybork Wartrike. Pair him with a Trukk or something and Loot It when it pops, for a 3+/4++/5+++ with character protection, T6, and W8. Not quite as nasty as Ghaz, but for half the cost it ain't bad. And it can actually get to where you want it to be reliably.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 21:50:38


Post by: hollow one


 Jidmah wrote:
None of those strike me as particularly powerful. The first two are lacking in the shooting compartment, and IMO 20 stormboyz don't make sense, go 30 or go home.

In the other two I think you are overestimating the durability of wagons - the main weakness is their 4+ armor, so even when wounding on 6s, just bolters and krak grenades (intercessor launch them at 30") can take big chunk out of them, especially when they get -1AP from their doctrine.

If I had to pick, the first one is probably the best one, though it could use wazbom or some smashas for extra ranged oomph.
Appreciate it Jid!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/20 23:34:19


Post by: Gruxz


@Hollow One, yoy should focus your lists more on one aspect or the other. Mixes don't do so well. Go heavy, go shooty, go horde or go home.

I've tried those mixed armies as well, doesn't work quite as good.

And against lot's of heavies like Knights? Triple Big Meks with SAGs seems to be pretty hot.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/21 12:02:54


Post by: Quackzo


I finally got to do my first ITC Tourney.
I ended up going 2 losses and 1 win, losing to nids, winning against spacewolves, and losing again to astra militarum souped with SW dreads and an assassin.
First game was good, I made mistakes and my opponent capitalised on them well. He ended up denying my ability to counter his Genestealers at one point and that ended up being game as we shredded through my boyz and tagged all my dakka.
Even though he krumped me hard, he ran me through all my mistakes at the end of the match which was helpful.
I found out after the fact that he actually plays orks too, and not only that but he's ranked 8th globally and probably ranked 1st in Australia. He gave me a lot of advice regarding my list and choices I made which was super helpful.
Main pointers he had was that I pushed forward my boyz too much, giving him too much to work with, I denied myself charges by shooting at screens, and he suggested I put more focus in my list given because I was splitting CP between boyz, characters, and dakka.
Second round was against space wolves. I was able to dominate board control and just kill his threats easily.
Third round was a bit rough against the imperium soup, I was tired and tilted and made a lot of mistakes and picked recon as a secondary and just couldn't make it happen. I think learning to deal with the fatigue would help a lot.

Here's my list:
Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [30 PL, 7CP, 583pts] ++
Battle-forged CP [3CP]
Clan Kultur: Deathskulls
Detachment CP [5CP]
Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!
+ HQ +
Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord
Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun
Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun
+ Troops +
3Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin
Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin
Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin
+ Elites +
Mad Dok Grotsnik [5 PL, 86pts]
+ Heavy Support +
Mek Gunz [10 PL, 155pts]
5 x Gun: Smasha Gun

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [37 PL, 4CP, 692pts] ++
Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz
Detachment CP [5CP]
Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins
+ HQ +
Big Mek on Warbike (Index) [6 PL, 101pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field
Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 101pts]: Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
+ Troops +
Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Shoota (Index)
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]: 3x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa
Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Shoota (Index)
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [35 PL, 5CP, 724pts] ++
Clan Kultur: Bad Moons
Detachment CP [5CP]
+ HQ +
Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]
Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]
+ Troops +
Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin
Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin
Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin
+ Elites +
Tankbustas [13 PL, 255pts]
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 14x Tankbusta: 14x Rokkit Launcha
+ Heavy Support +
Lootas [13 PL, 255pts]
. 15x Loota

++ Total: [102 PL, 16CP, 1,999pts] ++


My thoughts after the tourney.
- I gotta embrace the chess clock. I didn't use one in any of my games but I was practising my speed at prior practice games. I think my last two opponents played relatively slow and it would of been plausible to get a time advantage.
- I'm not 100% certain about running lootas right now, they feel like such a CP sink and I'd much rather dump it into something else.
- I need to pre-plan deployments and work on my positioning, I gave my opponents head hunter through sheer bad positioning in all of my games.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/21 16:50:47


Post by: flandarz


Good job, buddy. Yeah, list focus is very important for Orkz. We can burn through an easy 6+ CP a turn, if we ain't careful. Sometimes it's good to have a lot of options, but you also got to know when to use each option to make your CP last.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the chess clock note: be aware that Orkz tend to suffer more than most with a clock. Especially if you're running infantry, because moving 90+ models can eat a LOT of time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Been thinking about Kultur a bit. I think the "top 4" are in a good place already (Bad Moonz, Death Skullz, Freebooter, and Evil Sunz), but the other three (Goff, Snakebitez, Blood Axez) really need some love to bring them up to the same level.

My suggestions would be:

Goff: replace exploding 6s with +1 to Strength and make Skar Boyz give an additional point of AP in CC. This fits with Goffs being the "biggest and da strongest".

Snakebitez: just add "Snakebitez GRETCHIN can use Stratagems" and suddenly this Kultur goes from the worst to competitive. Killa Kanz go from Red to Blue, easy. Makes sense that a more "feral" Kultur would have Grots that are better able to emulate their bigger cousins.

Blood Axez: this one is easy too. Keep the "cover outside of 18 inches" ability, and replace the "fallback and shoot or charge" with "add 6" to the Range of Infantry Assault and Pistols". Not only does this mean a lot more of your army can benefit from the cover thing, but now Burna Boyz become usable! A "taktikal" Kultur would be able to make the most out of their weapons range, after all.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/21 23:22:36


Post by: Curious79


Hey Boyz!! I am starting to think about an only Evil Sunz 1750pts all comers list for a Comp next year
Any help on examples would be much appreciated


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 01:18:17


Post by: flandarz


You prefer Infantry or Mechanized? The former will probably be more optimized for ya, but your personal playstyle plays more into whether you win or lose than just taking the best stuff.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 02:24:01


Post by: Grimskul


 flandarz wrote:
Good job, buddy. Yeah, list focus is very important for Orkz. We can burn through an easy 6+ CP a turn, if we ain't careful. Sometimes it's good to have a lot of options, but you also got to know when to use each option to make your CP last.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the chess clock note: be aware that Orkz tend to suffer more than most with a clock. Especially if you're running infantry, because moving 90+ models can eat a LOT of time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Been thinking about Kultur a bit. I think the "top 4" are in a good place already (Bad Moonz, Death Skullz, Freebooter, and Evil Sunz), but the other three (Goff, Snakebitez, Blood Axez) really need some love to bring them up to the same level.

My suggestions would be:

Goff: replace exploding 6s with +1 to Strength and make Skar Boyz give an additional point of AP in CC. This fits with Goffs being the "biggest and da strongest".

Snakebitez: just add "Snakebitez GRETCHIN can use Stratagems" and suddenly this Kultur goes from the worst to competitive. Killa Kanz go from Red to Blue, easy. Makes sense that a more "feral" Kultur would have Grots that are better able to emulate their bigger cousins.

Blood Axez: this one is easy too. Keep the "cover outside of 18 inches" ability, and replace the "fallback and shoot or charge" with "add 6" to the Range of Infantry Assault and Pistols". Not only does this mean a lot more of your army can benefit from the cover thing, but now Burna Boyz become usable! A "taktikal" Kultur would be able to make the most out of their weapons range, after all.


100% agree with the changes to kulturs, though I'm not entirely sure if longer range weapons is necessarily a Blood Axe thing tbh. Maybe when being shot at or charged, once per turn, Blood Axe units may elect to move up 5" away from the unit that is shooting/charging instead of overwatching? (in the case of being charged for the latter). This way you can get more potential mileage out of the 18" range for cover and also gives a more tactical feel of the Blood Axe boyz knowing when to get stuck in at the right moment. This also makes it so Blood Axe tanks are actually pretty decent at long range.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 02:47:30


Post by: flandarz


To be honest, that one was mostly wishful thinking on my part for making Burnas viable. What Blood Axes should REALLY have is the exact same thing Hive Jorg has for Tyranids. "Count as in Cover as long as you don't Advance or Charge during this turn/the previous turn."


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 05:08:52


Post by: blaktoof


Blood Axes- Count as cover if outside 12". Same range as every other factions count as cover.... Keep the fallback and shoot or charge.

Blood Axe Stratagem- Change it to allow Blood Axe units to move up to 9" at start of game 1/2cp for same PLs as current. With tellyporta its almost redundant- there are a few units you can get for 1CP if they are 10 models (bustaz/lootas/burnaz..) but overall not very good.



Ard Boyz- 2CP, gives boyz unit a 4+ armor save (not 5+)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 13:40:20


Post by: flandarz


Oh yeah. 'ard Boyz is basically worthless as it is.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 13:55:20


Post by: AngryMedic


I'm looking for some critique on my Ork list for an upcoming coming tournament this November. This tournament is a combination ITC and Maelstrom, so I need to tweak the list to account for both styles of play. The other stipulation is that no index units/options are allowed, so I recently had to swap out my KFF big mek on bike for the wartrike, which hasn't really been pulling his weight. I'm also looking to swap out my Deff koptas too, as they usually just give up first blood and without index options, I cant take the bombs. It's not all doom and gloom though, this list has won me 5/7 games in my meta, the only lists I've lost to had the dreaded shadowsword and an ork list pre loota mob up nerf with 180 boys and Suped up SAG. Anyways, enough rambling, heres the list:

**edited because I'm an illiterate gretchin**


Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [69 PL, 6CP, 1,331pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Detachment CP [5CP]

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-up Shokka, Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun, Warlord

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]: Da Fixer Upperz

+ Troops +

Boyz [7 PL, 104pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Kustom Shoota (Index), Power Klaw
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Rokkit Launcha
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Boyz [7 PL, 104pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Kustom Shoota (Index), Power Klaw
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Rokkit Launcha
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Mek [2 PL, 31pts]: Choppa, Kustom Mega-blasta (Index)

Mek [2 PL, 31pts]: Choppa, Kustom Mega-blasta (Index)

+ Fast Attack +

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 39pts]
. DeffKopta: Bigbomm (Index), Kustom Mega-blasta

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 39pts]
. DeffKopta: Bigbomm (Index), Kustom Mega-blasta

+ Heavy Support +

Gorkanaut [15 PL, 311pts]: 2x Rokkit Launcha, Skorcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

Morkanaut [15 PL, 310pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Kustom Mega-zappa, 2x Rokkit Launcha, 2x Twin Big Shoota

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [9 PL, 5CP, 214pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 4. Fists of Gork

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Orks) [22 PL, 1CP, 455pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 159pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun

++ Total: [100 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 15:21:58


Post by: flandarz


Lists go into spoilers, or ya get krumped!

If the list is already working for you, then I wouldn't change a thing. No sense making changes when what you got already works.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 16:14:50


Post by: Jidmah


*starts beating AngryMedic with a big choppa*

No advice for gitz not followin' da rules!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 16:24:29


Post by: Vineheart01


Not even sure if i'd use 'Ard Boyz for 2cp at 4+ armor.
Yeah they could go 3+ if a vehicle died near them but unless it was a rather important one (i.e. a naut) i dont see a vehicle near a squad of boyz midfield dying all that often. Unless its their transport, which means you spend 2cp on a squad of nor more than 20 boyz (very not worth it then)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 16:34:08


Post by: flandarz


Really, 'Ard Boyz should probably just give T5. That pushes them over that milestone, meaning anti-infantry will have a harder time taking them down.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 19:17:24


Post by: addnid


 flandarz wrote:
Really, 'Ard Boyz should probably just give T5. That pushes them over that milestone, meaning anti-infantry will have a harder time taking them down.


This would make sense but the strat would need to be limited to on or two units otherwise you get a toughness 5 greentide (though with nearly no cp left hah hah) which could be obnoxious for some to play against


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 20:17:41


Post by: Jidmah


They could make it one CP and go back to just one unit of 'ard boyz per army, like it used to be.

Oh, and some good news: A reliable french rumor monger apparently confirmed that there will be an Ork vs Space Wolves box, probably with new models for us.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 20:19:22


Post by: SemperMortis


 Jidmah wrote:
They could make it one CP and go back to just one unit of 'ard boyz per army, like it used to be.
Honestly if they did it would still be questionable to use. Plus, 30 T5 boyz are still not that hard to kill when they have a 6+ save, S4 weapons lose 1/3rd of their damage but with the sheer amount of rerolls floating around right now, its not even that much.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 20:42:29


Post by: blaktoof


4+ save is 3+ in cover, if you have mek gunz near them that die you can loot them for +1 save. That would be worth 2 cp on 30 Boyz.

Alternative- like knight and chaos knight codex which can upgrade their all their heavy stubbers for 1 cp, maybe keep ard Boyz at 2 CP- +1 save but let it effect all the Boyz units in that detachment.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 20:44:23


Post by: flandarz


Questionable is good. No one wants an auto-take for 'Ard Boyz.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 20:45:09


Post by: SemperMortis


 flandarz wrote:
Questionable is good. No one wants an auto-take for 'Ard Boyz.
By Questionable I mean, I probably wouldn't waste the CP on a unit of boyz getting that buff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
blaktoof wrote:
4+ save is 3+ in cover, if you have mek gunz near them that did you can loot them for +1 save. That would be worth 2 cp on 30 Boyz.


2 CP to make a unit of boyz have a 3+ save would be useful, but a lot of things have to go right for that to happen. I like it though , but again, knowing GW. They would make a rule that said you couldn't loot a vehicle if you are an Ard Boy unit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 20:59:01


Post by: flandarz


I dunno. T5 not only makes T4 wound less. It also makes T5 wound less, and T8 no longer give 2+. It's a fairly significant increase in survival. Especially since nearly everything seems to have AP now, which are even MORE common than Rerolls. Though, for 2CP? Still too expensive. 1 CP seems solid to me.

2 CP for a 3+ WOULD be good, but I 100% guarantee that GW (and pretty much everyone) would consider that too powerful for a 7ppm Troops unit.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 21:27:41


Post by: Emicrania


Guys , did anybody ever did the real math on a SSAG?
Really trying to understand if put it in Deathskulls or freebooterz, but I can't even get started. too many variables.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 21:38:35


Post by: flandarz


Freebooterz: 7 attacks, 4 hits, 2 Wounds (assuming S7 vs T7), 7 damage. Add in the 1 in 6 chance to get MWs when you shoot, and you end up with around 8.5 damage, averaged across many attacks, and assuming you can always proc that +1.

Deathskullz: 7 attacks, 3 hits, 2 Wounds, and about 8 damage after the damage reroll. After MWs, about 8.5 or so.

That's some real rough math, obviously, but should be pretty close. If you're a lucky boy, and can always find an easy unit to wipe, Freebooter can be really deadly. But Deathskullz is far more reliable, and give you a 6++ to boot.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 22:54:20


Post by: Curious79


Hey everyone I am looking to find out what are the core Tactics and units in an Evil Sunz only list any strat combos would be much appreciated DAKKA DAKKA BOYZ


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/22 23:40:21


Post by: flandarz


As I mentioned last page, you need to give us some more information than just "Evil Sunz" and "1750 pts". We can give you some general advice, but if we don't know what you got and how you play, our help will be extremely limited.

Evil Sunz advice: works better on slow units than units that are already fast. Make use of the no penalty to Assault when Advancing by including units with Assault weapons. Bear in mind that, when it comes to getting units where you want them to be, you're STILL better off with Da Jump and Tellyport in many cases. The Warlord Trait and Relic for Evil Sunz are worse than the generic options, but the Stratagem can see some use from time to time (though you generally want your units getting into CC rather than running from it).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/23 08:49:14


Post by: tneva82


 Emicrania wrote:
Guys , did anybody ever did the real math on a SSAG?
Really trying to understand if put it in Deathskulls or freebooterz, but I can't even get started. too many variables.


I simulated whole bunch of runs(like 10's of thousands couple times). End result was deathskull was SLIGHTLY better(except for corner case of 3++/5+++(vs mortal) knight where bad moons were king but those dont' exists anymore). End result was deathskull was sliiiiightly better than the others with freeboota close behind. Mind you difference was real small. With knights(5++) what I got was about 9.7 vs 9.5 wounds and 8.9% vs 8.7% one shots. So as you can see it's very, very, very close either way.

So basically: If you have both detachments deathskull if you want to maximize firepower. If you have one it's not HUGE loss either way. Though deathskull has 6++ which can occasionally come handy as might the objective secured. Not enough for me to get deathskull det just for that if I had freeboota but if I have both it's deathskull all the way.

If you have alternative target you want to try against feel free to tell(btw vs 1W infantry with low T I can say without simulation freeboota rules but albeit those aren't really worthwhile targets for it anyway)

Not math but if after 50,000 tries result is about that I think I can say safely that's close enough that I don't want to spend effort going even more accurate


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/23 09:51:45


Post by: Emicrania


 flandarz wrote:
Freebooterz: 7 attacks, 4 hits, 2 Wounds (assuming S7 vs T7), 7 damage. Add in the 1 in 6 chance to get MWs when you shoot, and you end up with around 8.5 damage, averaged across many attacks, and assuming you can always proc that +1.

Deathskullz: 7 attacks, 3 hits, 2 Wounds, and about 8 damage after the damage reroll. After MWs, about 8.5 or so.

That's some real rough math, obviously, but should be pretty close. If you're a lucky boy, and can always find an easy unit to wipe, Freebooter can be really deadly. But Deathskullz is far more reliable, and give you a 6++ to boot.


Thanks mate, I think I´ll try Deathskulls for a while and see how it fares.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/23 10:36:43


Post by: Quackzo


 flandarz wrote:
Good job, buddy.

Thanks mate!


Yeah, list focus is very important for Orkz. We can burn through an easy 6+ CP a turn, if we ain't careful. Sometimes it's good to have a lot of options, but you also got to know when to use each option to make your CP last.


Yeah definitely, I'm back to the drawing board for my list now. I've got a dozen ideas I want to try but definitely want to lock down on a focus for CP usage. I'll probably drop Lootas for something that isn't as CP hungry. Flash Gitz or MANz possibly.


On the chess clock note: be aware that Orkz tend to suffer more than most with a clock. Especially if you're running infantry, because moving 90+ models can eat a LOT of time.

I've got movement trays for everything, so movement is actually pretty good. Dice rolling is my main nemesis but I've been practising good habits to mitigate that as much as possible, EG dice tray and pre-counting dice when opponent is active. It's still rough.
Another major time sink is just unpreparedness and poor decisions, so I've started working on game plans and deployments.

 Emicrania wrote:
Guys , did anybody ever did the real math on a SSAG?
Really trying to understand if put it in Deathskulls or freebooterz, but I can't even get started. too many variables.


I haven't done the real math for it yet (on my to do list) but I will add in my 2 cents.
From running triple SAG in both freebootas and Deathskulls, I think Deathskulls is the better choice. As others have posted the difference for the SUSAG can be marginal between the three dakka but I would wager that the vanilla SAG benefits significantly more from Deathskulls then the other two dakka clans.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/23 10:49:37


Post by: tneva82


 Quackzo wrote:
From running triple SAG in both freebootas and Deathskulls, I think Deathskulls is the better choice. As others have posted the difference for the SUSAG can be marginal between the three dakka but I would wager that the vanilla SAG benefits significantly more from Deathskulls then the other two dakka clans.


I simulated that one quickly and came up with(again vs T8 5++ target) 3,0071 wounds in average for deathskull and 2.34 for freeboota. So yeah both absolute and relative gap increased. Didn't bother with bad moon because that one is too obvious. So your wager is correct.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/23 20:33:20


Post by: ManTube


When it comes to freebootas vs. deathskulls on the SSAG, the more relevant questions instead of direct comparison is what does the rest of your list look like? Freeboota lists want to be non-soup to reliably trigger competitive streak and pass it around as much as possible, so if you are running a very shooty list designed around proc'ing that trait, you are gunna want to run the SSAG as freebootas for synergy reasons even if it maths out as slightly less efficient than a deathskulls SSAG. If you are more looking to just throw in a min-batt dreadwaaagh! detachment just to add the extra firepower a SSAG brings along into any old ork list, then yeah, run that battalion as deathskulls because it'll be slightly more efficient and you dont care about freeboota synergy.

Pretty much, only run SSAG as freebootas if the rest of your list is also freebootas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/23 20:41:22


Post by: Vineheart01


My main issue with Freeboota is if you are facing a neg to hit army its kinda ruined, especially since many of them can squeeze -2 to hit.
Other less important issue i have is i feel i have to be clumped up a bit. 24" is wide, but the SAG being stationary makes it difficult to navigate and still be within that 24" of wherever the SAG was placed point. Especially since i dont spam mek gunz (aint got them to spam in the first place) and the main thing i got that tends to get a kill quickly is a plane, thus nowhere near my SAG lol
24" bubble doesnt feel that big when it cant move


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/23 20:51:57


Post by: ManTube


 Vineheart01 wrote:
My main issue with Freeboota is if you are facing a neg to hit army its kinda ruined, especially since many of them can squeeze -2 to hit.
Other less important issue i have is i feel i have to be clumped up a bit. 24" is wide, but the SAG being stationary makes it difficult to navigate and still be within that 24" of wherever the SAG was placed point. Especially since i dont spam mek gunz (aint got them to spam in the first place) and the main thing i got that tends to get a kill quickly is a plane, thus nowhere near my SAG lol
24" bubble doesnt feel that big when it cant move


Fair critiques, but I guess that's the nature of freebootas. You really need everyone to be in the clan to spread the trait around so that it can still potentially make it back to those backfield units like SSAGs. If all goes well and you had good target allocation in the correct order, you can have the most accurate ork shooting across your whole army. But sometimes you can't wipe units with the right units and the buff doesn't go as far as you want it to. Ultimately I'd agree that deffskulls (or bad moonz) are probably the better and more versatile shooting clan overall, especially if you are leaning into MSU. But I'm currently building a list with 15 flash gitz and Badrukk, so I'm kinda committed to making the clan work.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/23 22:14:01


Post by: T1nk4bell


Math : freebota sag vs deffskull.
Assume str 7 7 shots ( average) vs a T7 target without save.

Freeboter : 8,16 shots ( dakka dakka dakka) = 4,08 hits =2,04 wounds = 7,17 dmg.

Deff skull 7 shots + one reroll that could be a six = 9,33 shots average = 3,11 hits wound reroll = 2,055 wounds = 9,22 dmg because of dmg reroll


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/23 22:15:01


Post by: Gruxz


 Vineheart01 wrote:
My main issue with Freeboota is if you are facing a neg to hit army its kinda ruined, especially since many of them can squeeze -2 to hit.
Other less important issue i have is i feel i have to be clumped up a bit. 24" is wide, but the SAG being stationary makes it difficult to navigate and still be within that 24" of wherever the SAG was placed point. Especially since i dont spam mek gunz (aint got them to spam in the first place) and the main thing i got that tends to get a kill quickly is a plane, thus nowhere near my SAG lol
24" bubble doesnt feel that big when it cant move


You can fly squares in your own zone or at least around your BM without much trouble. Range should suffice. Hell you can make a train if you wish to have multiples. Just get them away when they start dying.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/24 19:39:28


Post by: flandarz


Honestly, I shifted from Freebooterz because of how difficult it can be to proc that +1. And if you can't proc it, then you're basically playing with no Kultur. Mostly running Deathskullz now, simply because they have stuff that's useful no matter what army you have, what army your opponent has, or what the game board currently looks like. It's obviously most optimal for MSUs and 6+ Save units, but you'll never be mad at three free rerolls a unit and a 6++ Save.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/24 19:59:43


Post by: Vineheart01


Exactly.

Unless theres a flak unit to shoot (grots, small guardsmen unit, cultists, etc) its generally kinda tough to kill something in one go for orks w/o any kulture boost.

The fact it works in both shooting and melee is nice, but unless im in combat with something thats pretty mean in melee i'd rather NOT fully kill them and just stay locked (love it when my boyz happen to stick to a single marine survivor and he cant fall back due to being surrounded)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 00:12:22


Post by: ManTube


 flandarz wrote:
Honestly, I shifted from Freebooterz because of how difficult it can be to proc that +1. And if you can't proc it, then you're basically playing with no Kultur. Mostly running Deathskullz now, simply because they have stuff that's useful no matter what army you have, what army your opponent has, or what the game board currently looks like. It's obviously most optimal for MSUs and 6+ Save units, but you'll never be mad at three free rerolls a unit and a 6++ Save.


Again, I'm inclined to agree with you. But I'm trying to run lots of flash gitz and make them work, so it's the freeboota life for me!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 00:17:33


Post by: flandarz


Far be it for me to tell ya what to play. I really do love the Freeboota lore and style. It's just unfortunate that they're really only "good" if you're playing someone running MSUs of weak things for you to get your +1s off of.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 01:32:38


Post by: Grimskul


 flandarz wrote:
Far be it for me to tell ya what to play. I really do love the Freeboota lore and style. It's just unfortunate that they're really only "good" if you're playing someone running MSUs of weak things for you to get your +1s off of.


Yeah, its one of those situational match-ups they're optimized against. That's why I always felt their relic should have been something that, once per game, causes all Freeboota units with 24" to count has having their kultur ability procc'ed. Gives them a little more consistency for the turn you need it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 03:00:01


Post by: ManTube


 Grimskul wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
Far be it for me to tell ya what to play. I really do love the Freeboota lore and style. It's just unfortunate that they're really only "good" if you're playing someone running MSUs of weak things for you to get your +1s off of.


Yeah, its one of those situational match-ups they're optimized against. That's why I always felt their relic should have been something that, once per game, causes all Freeboota units with 24" to count has having their kultur ability procc'ed. Gives them a little more consistency for the turn you need it.


That would be a solid relic option for them. Another unfortunate problem for freebootas is they have pretty much the worst relic, warlord trait, and stratagem of all the clans. Badskull banner and killer reputation are both easily out-shined by generic options and kill krooza broadside is probably the worst strat in the whole book.

My meta has a fair amount of imperial guardsmen, space marines, and T'au, so I don't typically have much trouble finding a guardsmen squad or some scouts or fire warriors to kindly provide the trait for me.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 03:00:20


Post by: Vineheart01


That would definitely be 100% more useful than the once per game autopass morale that realistically will only be used for 1 unit if at all.
Course, our relics almost as a whole could use a facelift. Relic SAG aside, they all kinda suck except in very specific circumstances. I love the concept of the Blunderbuss but realistically it doesnt do much thanks to the range and boss durability being kinda crap.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 03:10:36


Post by: flandarz


The Buzzbomb is pretty decent. Too bad Snakebitez is just so subpar. I also like Supa Cybork, but mostly when paired with the Badmoonz WT for a pretty hard to kill Wartrike. Otherwise, it's pretty "meh". I heard good things about Da Killa Klaw, but I dunno if it's worth Relic status.

But, honestly, I could deal with subpar WTs, Strats, and Relics if the lame Kulturz and Stratagems got a facelift. 'Ard Boyz and Blood Axes, in particular, are just such a disappointment.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 03:20:25


Post by: Vineheart01


I dont get why the Buzzbomb is 1 use only.
Yeah as it is that would be pretty dang sick if it wasnt one use only, buts also a crazy short range and once a character is that close to the enemy hes gonna get swamped and murdered anyway.
I used to think the Gitstoppa Shells were amazing until i realized i misread it. It improves the SHOOTA profile of a kombi. I was using it to get S6 AP2 2D flamer lol. Which was actually pretty dang good....why on earth would i ever want to buff a shoota profile? lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 03:30:30


Post by: flandarz


Still, up to 30 "flamer" attacks can be useful for clearing out some chaff before charging into what's behind them. Really only useful on the Wartrike though, since it's the only character fast enough to get into that range (that isn't Kultur-locked or Index). Too bad it doesn't have a rule like the new buggies, so it could shoot with its other weapons too. That'd certainly improve the viability of the Buzzbomb.

Just reread the description for the Thunderbuss and I'm astounded that it isn't a Freeboota Relic. Like, gold plated teef are right up their alley!

But, honestly? All of our generic stuff (Relics and WL Traits) kinda beats out the Kultur stuff. Which is weird to me, but what do I know?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 05:18:02


Post by: Quackzo


Actually a big fan of freebooter relic. I popped it in an ITC game where I had 2 units of gretchin as engineers and my opponent tried to get both of them and the objective holding grots to fail morale. Its cheaper than 2 CP as well and in freebooters there is an incentive to ditch boyz and run gretchin due to the way the kultur functions.

I'm not a huge fan of speculating but I will say that the relic power klaw is mostly useful for the 3 damage. We don't have thunder hammers and this is the closest we can get. If we had Zzappa 'Ammer's as wargear it'd be another story.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/25 09:38:35


Post by: addnid


 Grimskul wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
Far be it for me to tell ya what to play. I really do love the Freeboota lore and style. It's just unfortunate that they're really only "good" if you're playing someone running MSUs of weak things for you to get your +1s off of.


Yeah, its one of those situational match-ups they're optimized against. That's why I always felt their relic should have been something that, once per game, causes all Freeboota units with 24" to count has having their kultur ability procc'ed. Gives them a little more consistency for the turn you need it.


Amen to that, your suggestion about the freebooter relic makes so much more sense than the one GW went with ! Really a hugely missed opportunity for GW here. It was so obvious too... Ah such a shame.

Another idea I had for a freebooter relic was "once per game, a flashgit unit with 6 of your "relic bearer" automatically shoots again, no need to roll a 1 after they have shot"


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/26 20:18:15


Post by: MannyMcCoconut


addnid wrote:
 Grimskul wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
Far be it for me to tell ya what to play. I really do love the Freeboota lore and style. It's just unfortunate that they're really only "good" if you're playing someone running MSUs of weak things for you to get your +1s off of.


Yeah, its one of those situational match-ups they're optimized against. That's why I always felt their relic should have been something that, once per game, causes all Freeboota units with 24" to count has having their kultur ability procc'ed. Gives them a little more consistency for the turn you need it.


Amen to that, your suggestion about the freebooter relic makes so much more sense than the one GW went with ! Really a hugely missed opportunity for GW here. It was so obvious too... Ah such a shame.

Another idea I had for a freebooter relic was "once per game, a flashgit unit with 6 of your "relic bearer" automatically shoots again, no need to roll a 1 after they have shot"


I like the idea for the new relic. Useful without seeming OP.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 16:27:53


Post by: Jidmah


The only change for orks from the new FAQ is Grotznik can't charge during enemy turns anymore. Solid meh.

On to waiting for CA then!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 16:33:26


Post by: flandarz


I still ain't found the new one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 16:34:27


Post by: Jidmah


Try changing the sort option to force it to refresh.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 16:38:45


Post by: flandarz


Yeah, I found it now. Only gimps for the Orkz. Not much reason to take Mad Dok anymore. They buffed Tau Savior Protocols, though. Now it operates like Grot Shields (ends the attack sequence).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 16:38:55


Post by: landy


Lootas, Deffgun
Change this weapon’s ability to read:
‘Each time this unit is chosen to shoot with, roll one D3
to determine the Type characteristic of all deffguns that
models in this unit are equipped with when resolving
those attacks.’


Wut? Behold rapid firing deffguns!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 16:40:13


Post by: flandarz


I didn't see that... where did you find that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah. I see it now. Old FAQ. I'm pretty sure it's meant to be "Shots", but for some reason it got changed and they didn't Magenta it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Especially since it doesn't say which "type" is assigned to which number on the D3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'm still curious as to why the Megatrakk only gets a +1 to one of it's Twin Big Shootas and not both. Just weird to keep track of...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 16:44:15


Post by: Jidmah


 flandarz wrote:
Yeah, I found it now. Only gimps for the Orkz. Not much reason to take Mad Dok anymore.

He still is a warboss with free painboy skills. He is pretty much an auto-take for deff skulls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
Also, I'm still curious as to why the Megatrakk only gets a +1 to one of it's Twin Big Shootas and not both. Just weird to keep track of...

The one in the back is fired by a grot, the one on the front isn't...

I still hate myself for painting that grot though, if I ever get a second megatrakk, the little guy goes straight into the bitz box - no one is ever going to see him anyways.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 16:49:43


Post by: landy


 flandarz wrote:

Ah. I see it now. Old FAQ. I'm pretty sure it's meant to be "Shots", but for some reason it got changed and they didn't Magenta it.

Definitely. And I got the idea. But that's not what's written.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:00:09


Post by: flandarz


I don't really consider Mad Dok to be a "must-take", but then again I primarily run vehicles, so he has a lot less value.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:02:03


Post by: Vineheart01


Yeah i painted that grot too and you have to look at it in such a specific angle to see the guy and even then its basically just a green nose anyway lol


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:02:15


Post by: GreatGranpapy


So mek guns dont need the grot krew to participate in the battle right?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:04:19


Post by: flandarz


You definitely need them. Because they "increase the footprint of the unit".


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:04:54


Post by: Vineheart01


Mek Gunz' grot crew are basically considered to be part of the mek gun "model" without being glued to it.
Realistically, you could just plop the thing onto a base thats about 1" wider than the mek gun and it'd be the same footprint as having 6 grots huddled around it that do absolutely nothing other than make your footprint wider.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:18:45


Post by: Gruxz


Ork vigilus also got an faq:

Q: Are Killa Kans able to use the Dread Waaagh!, Kustom Ammo or Mek Connections Stratagems, despite having the Gretchin keyword? A: Yes.

Q: Can a Bad Moons Big Mek in a Dread Waaagh! Detachment use both the Showin’ Off Stratagem and the Kustom Ammo Stratagem to fire three times in a single Shooting phase? A: No. Both Stratagems only allow the unit to fire two times in the phase.

So killa kans got a little better!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:23:37


Post by: flandarz


Those FAQs are old. They must have forgotten to remove the Magenta. They still have the issue of being too slow to really utilize Kustom Ammo efficiently, and too flimsy to survive long enough to get into range to do so. Would be slightly better of you could Advance them with Evil Sunz, and/or use Moar Dakka on them. As it stands, for a similar price point, you could just field a Gork.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:26:00


Post by: Gruxz


Oh my bad. Well it was news for me lol

Edit:

What about this section in the general rulebook?

Q: Can an Index unit be equipped with a weapon from a codex weapons list (i.e. a Chaos Lord on Bike being equipped with a thunder hammer not previously available to them)?
A: No.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:47:24


Post by: Vineheart01


Not to mention the only stratagem that actually affects we give a hoot about is the Kustom Ammo. Which why you would use that on a kan squad instead of a naut or SAG is beyond me....
And before "well if the kanz are all thats left..." comments, kanz shooting isnt even that threatening in the first place and if you lost your sag and naut while still having CP you probably got absolutely krump'd 'ard


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 17:57:02


Post by: flandarz


I can see a use for it. Rokkit Kanz can put in some work against T7+, with their 4+ BS. But, yeah. Until they make Kanz better or cheaper, just pass on em. If you could get 6 of them for like 210 pts, or so, they might be worth your time.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:00:48


Post by: Jidmah


Gruxz wrote:
Oh my bad. Well it was news for me lol

Edit:

What about this section in the general rulebook?

Q: Can an Index unit be equipped with a weapon from a codex weapons list (i.e. a Chaos Lord on Bike being equipped with a thunder hammer not previously available to them)?
A: No.


This has always been that way - the flowchart is pretty clear on that, it's just a clarification.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:06:32


Post by: Gruxz


 Jidmah wrote:
Gruxz wrote:
Oh my bad. Well it was news for me lol

Edit:

What about this section in the general rulebook?

Q: Can an Index unit be equipped with a weapon from a codex weapons list (i.e. a Chaos Lord on Bike being equipped with a thunder hammer not previously available to them)?
A: No.


This has always been that way - the flowchart is pretty clear on that, it's just a clarification.


Damn, I've been using a warboss on warbike with a killa klaw for a while now. Whoops


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:07:41


Post by: flandarz


The Killa Klaw is a Relic, not a wargear option. Still good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Until your Meta decides to pick up Legacy rules and go Codex only, at least.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:09:10


Post by: Jidmah


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not to mention the only stratagem that actually affects we give a hoot about is the Kustom Ammo. Which why you would use that on a kan squad instead of a naut or SAG is beyond me....
And before "well if the kanz are all thats left..." comments, kanz shooting isnt even that threatening in the first place and if you lost your sag and naut while still having CP you probably got absolutely krump'd 'ard


Getting 5 or 6 additional 4+ rokkits is often better than shooting the SSAG with 2d6 5+ shots again, and don't forget that they do get dakkadakkadakka (I always do).
If you have a naut, that should be shooting twice though.

Kanz aren't terrible, they just aren't worth 50 points a piece.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:12:10


Post by: Vineheart01


Slight nerf to Nobz it seems.

Q: When a Nob replaces their slugga and choppa with items from the Nob Weapons list, can they take two weapons from the first list and one weapon from the second list, for a total of three weapons (e.g. a big choppa, killsaw and a kombi-weapon with skorcha)?A: No. They can take two weapons from the first list or only one if it is taken from the second list

I'm pretty sure the previous faq allowed us to take both a kombi and a bigchoppa, now it looks like its kombi or two small weapons, not one small one kombi.

So...even less incentives to run dakkanobz lol. Now they have 0 melee options if they take a kombi...not that kombi choices were a wise move anyway

Kinda surprised they retconned that and not the dual-choppa loadout


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:13:35


Post by: flandarz


I think 35 is pretty fair for them (including Rokkit). Same ppm as MANz, for roughly the same durability, speed, and damage output. Maybe... 40?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:20:00


Post by: Vineheart01


I would say kanz have to be slightly more expensive than MANz.

Kanz do flat 3 damage (well, depending on the weapon but dunno why you wouldnt use this one) instead of D3...big deal
Kanz can actually shoot, MANz not so much. Yeah 4 S4 shots each can still do .. some.. damage but lets face it people would gladly axe that if they could move faster or didnt have the -1 to hit in melee
Kanz are faster
Kanz are T5 and have 5 wounds vs T4 and 3 wounds.
MANz have a 2+ instead of a 3+ and hit on 4s vs 5s (counting the PK neg to hit)

But the huuuuuge blow of no strats or kultures drastically offsets those bonuses so i'd say 5-8pts more than a MANz is fair. Currently its 17pts more, and thats way too high. without kultures or strats. (Kan costed w/ rokkit, since its the only gun it has access to anymore thats even remotely viable)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:32:07


Post by: flandarz


I think 40 (including Rokkit) is the most expensive they could be and still be viable compared to other options.

So, that'd be a "base cost" of 28 vs the 40 we got now.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:34:50


Post by: Vineheart01


i'd agree to that.
The amount of times ive ran them anyway and i rolled a bunch of 1s (bad moonz, cant reroll) or really really wished i could Ramming Speed them are uncountable...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/27 18:38:07


Post by: flandarz


Oh, if they didn't have the GRETCHIN keyword, we'd be having a very different conversation. Just a mob of Bad Moonz Rokkit Kanz, Tellyporta'd in, double shooting, then Ramming Speeding into an enemy would be deadly, even at the cost we have now.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 00:38:24


Post by: Quackzo


RE: FAQ.
Grotsnik change was inevitable and I'll still run him. He's better than a painboy in function and has warboss capabilities in melee. Also I just like the dude.

I"m mostly bummed about lack of changes in in forgeworld units. I was really hoping they'd address Zhadsnarks lack of advance and charge for himself and clarify on the existence of Buzzgobs KFF.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 01:08:07


Post by: Vineheart01


i probably had the most ridiculous outcome of a SSAG ever...

Deathskullz trait. In two turns (counting the Kustom Ammo fire twice), it brought an Astraeus tank from full to 4 wounds, full killed a Redempter and did all except 5 damage to another, and oneshotted a sciaran tank hunter.

Really all he had left was a few characters at this point. He called it lol.

I dont think ive ever seen the SAG do that much damage except in 6th edition when it bullseye boxcar deleted a Draigo wing lol

Was a local friendly vigilius campaign game, though we were doing a standard 40k rulebook mission. I originally was going to leave my SAG and/or Squiggoth at home since its friendly but i saw people using knights, leviathans, and Girlyman so i said eff it and brought back the big guns...well gun lol.
That was almost twice the amount of damage i usually get with that thing. More often than not, two of my 4 shots in 2 turns completely whiff either in the strength, number of shots, or just fail to hit department. All 4 hit hard this time lol, and i didnt even roll Str11/12


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 07:47:35


Post by: tneva82


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Mek Gunz' grot crew are basically considered to be part of the mek gun "model" without being glued to it.
Realistically, you could just plop the thing onto a base thats about 1" wider than the mek gun and it'd be the same footprint as having 6 grots huddled around it that do absolutely nothing other than make your footprint wider.


Well it also affects los as well(sometimes gun itself would be out of los but crew visible allowing gun to be shot) but foot print is bigger.

Reroll thing on faq's also slight effect for orks. No rerolling 1 dice with 1 ability and if still fail reroll other with another.

Albeit all that has resulted for me is waste of cp so far


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 08:05:33


Post by: An Actual Englishman


I dislike the fact that Oblits get to pick their targets after rolling the strength of their weapons, but our SAG Mek, which has a far more variable strength, cannot.

I dislike the SAG anyway to be honest, it's so swingy even when taken as the SSAG and for every awesome roll there's a poor one coming.

I also find it irritating that our burnas remain trash and they nerfed Nobs (because we all know those Nob lists were dominating the meta).

This FAQ is a poor one, IMO.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 08:59:57


Post by: Jidmah


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I dislike the fact that Oblits get to pick their targets after rolling the strength of their weapons, but our SAG Mek, which has a far more variable strength, cannot.

I dislike the SAG anyway to be honest, it's so swingy even when taken as the SSAG and for every awesome roll there's a poor one coming.

The wording on errata'd SAG and obliterators is almost the same, so regular SAGs also roll before picking. Only the SSAG got left out for that errata for some reason.

I also find it irritating that our burnas remain trash and they nerfed Nobs (because we all know those Nob lists were dominating the meta).

This FAQ is a poor one, IMO.

None of the changes were motivated by balance in any way. It was 100% housekeeping, clearing out rules that were misunderstood or had unintended effects.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 09:23:13


Post by: An Actual Englishman


 Jidmah wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I dislike the fact that Oblits get to pick their targets after rolling the strength of their weapons, but our SAG Mek, which has a far more variable strength, cannot.

I dislike the SAG anyway to be honest, it's so swingy even when taken as the SSAG and for every awesome roll there's a poor one coming.

The wording on errata'd SAG and obliterators is almost the same, so regular SAGs also roll before picking. Only the SSAG got left out for that errata for some reason.

That right? But hadn't we all been playing the SAG and SSAG by picking targets first? Maybe it was just me. So normal SAG you roll str then pick targets? That's cool.

I also find it irritating that our burnas remain trash and they nerfed Nobs (because we all know those Nob lists were dominating the meta).

This FAQ is a poor one, IMO.

None of the changes were motivated by balance in any way. It was 100% housekeeping, clearing out rules that were misunderstood or had unintended effects.

I don't entirely agree, though I do in the main. D6 demo cannons seem like a balance change. All the extra attacks, wounds and other rules for SM units seem like a balance change. It just seems like some balance changes were considered a lot more than others to me.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 09:38:05


Post by: tneva82


Demo cannon was to ensure there's no multiple versions of demo cannon(well except dark angels who got assault 3 for reason). Ditto others were unifying rules so same rule/weapon works same wav every book. Since gw now hates usr's and common weapon tables you have to change multiple places if you change one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 09:49:31


Post by: Jidmah


 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I dislike the fact that Oblits get to pick their targets after rolling the strength of their weapons, but our SAG Mek, which has a far more variable strength, cannot.

I dislike the SAG anyway to be honest, it's so swingy even when taken as the SSAG and for every awesome roll there's a poor one coming.

The wording on errata'd SAG and obliterators is almost the same, so regular SAGs also roll before picking. Only the SSAG got left out for that errata for some reason.

That right? But hadn't we all been playing the SAG and SSAG by picking targets first? Maybe it was just me. So normal SAG you roll str then pick targets? That's cool.

Yeah, that was changed during the last big FAQ, just not for the SSAG for some reason - I somehow doubt that this was intentional though.

I don't entirely agree, though I do in the main. D6 demo cannons seem like a balance change. All the extra attacks, wounds and other rules for SM units seem like a balance change. It just seems like some balance changes were considered a lot more than others to me.

They just applied the change to the demo cannon to everyone. While it does improve the LRBT variant that has it, the motivation behind it was clearly to just make one gun work the same for everyone.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 12:15:26


Post by: An Actual Englishman


Fair enough Jid, I take your point.

In terms of actual tactics and what-not - has anyone played against the dreaded IH yet and do you have any suggestions in terms of how to not get obliterated?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 13:14:56


Post by: Vineheart01


Yeah the SAG roll changed awhile ago and i have been relishing in it.
Oh i rolled absolute crap on my strength....ok lets pop some marines or termies
Rolled S9+? Hello knight!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 16:12:23


Post by: Emicrania


Space Marines still dies like space marines. anything that has Ap2 or above, will obliterate them. Just screen, out range them and play the mission. You´ll be fine. I lost an important match vs WS last tournament for 3 points just to find out that Warsuits are actually...well warsuits. Not dreadnought, so they can´t use the stratagem to halve the damage....


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 17:31:52


Post by: SemperMortis


 flandarz wrote:
I can see a use for it. Rokkit Kanz can put in some work against T7+, with their 4+ BS. But, yeah. Until they make Kanz better or cheaper, just pass on em. If you could get 6 of them for like 210 pts, or so, they might be worth your time.


210pts if they are equipped with big shootas would be doable. anything more and they are trash. And the biggest annoyance is that the morale thing is something you have to worry about with Kanz so running a group of 6 is dangerous. ATM they are 40pts with the Big Shoota, so if you did give them a 10pt reduction in price you could have Rokkit Kanz for 42pts....which is also probably still too high, they really need to lower the price of Rokkitz to either a flat 10 or possibly even less.


 Jidmah wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not to mention the only stratagem that actually affects we give a hoot about is the Kustom Ammo. Which why you would use that on a kan squad instead of a naut or SAG is beyond me....
And before "well if the kanz are all thats left..." comments, kanz shooting isnt even that threatening in the first place and if you lost your sag and naut while still having CP you probably got absolutely krump'd 'ard


Getting 5 or 6 additional 4+ rokkits is often better than shooting the SSAG with 2d6 5+ shots again, and don't forget that they do get dakkadakkadakka (I always do).
If you have a naut, that should be shooting twice though.

Kanz aren't terrible, they just aren't worth 50 points a piece.


Kanz are terrible. They are a jack of all trades unit but worse somehow. They are ok at shooting, but they lack range and don't have enough ranged weapons to justify using them as a dakka unit, they have CCW's but they hit on 5s and they are so slow that getting them into CC range, hell getting them into shooting range, takes time and since they are only T5 with a 3+ they tend to not survive as long as people think they will. I agree, that getting those 4-5 extra rokkitz is nice, but on average, that increased damge isn't worth spending CP on.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/28 21:12:57


Post by: Vineheart01


i would doublefire a SAG any day over a full kan squad.
If they fired 2 rokkits, ok that would be worth it. But 57pts for a single 4+ hitting rokkit?

There are several similar type vehicles (light vehicles with a random big gun) that are significantly stronger than a kan for pennies more. Take the Ironstrider for instance, the 60pt autocannon variant is way faster, tougher, more wounds, and fires 4 3+ hitting autocannon shots for 3 freakin points more. Yeah it has a 4+ instead of a 3+ but it also gets stratagems.

Kanz suck. Literally anything you compare them to they are about 15-20pts overpriced. Even if they did get kultures and stratagems they'd be overpriced, but at least playable.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/29 00:40:48


Post by: SemperMortis


 Vineheart01 wrote:
i would doublefire a SAG any day over a full kan squad.
If they fired 2 rokkits, ok that would be worth it. But 57pts for a single 4+ hitting rokkit?

There are several similar type vehicles (light vehicles with a random big gun) that are significantly stronger than a kan for pennies more. Take the Ironstrider for instance, the 60pt autocannon variant is way faster, tougher, more wounds, and fires 4 3+ hitting autocannon shots for 3 freakin points more. Yeah it has a 4+ instead of a 3+ but it also gets stratagems.

Kanz suck. Literally anything you compare them to they are about 15-20pts overpriced. Even if they did get kultures and stratagems they'd be overpriced, but at least playable.


Killa Kan: 45pts M=6 WS=5 BS=4 S=5 T=5 W=5 A=3 LD=6 3+ save Big Shoota 3 Shots at S5 36' range and a CCW +3S -3AP 3Dmg Don't benefit from Kulture, can't use many Strats.

IronStrider 60Pts M=10 WS=3 BS=3 S=5 T=6 W=6 A=2 LD=8 4+ Save, Twin Cognis Autocannon 4 S7 -1AP 2Dmg Ranged 48 Weapon. Adds +1 LD to itself and all units of the same forgeworld nearby. CAN use Strats and benefits from Forge World (Kulture)

Armored Sentinel: 35pts M=8 WS=4 BS=4 S=5 T=6 W=6 A=1 LD=7 3+ Save, Multi Laser, 3 S6 shots 1 dmg. Benefits from Strats and IG version of Kulture.

So, compared to these the Killa Kan is Slower, Worse WS by a lot, Has either the same or worse BS, same S, lower T, Fewer Wounds, lower LD and the same or+1 save. Its ranged weapon is significantly worse then the other options. So basically its worse in almost every category except....CC, where you don't want your killa kanz to be because they suck at CC. 3 Kanz cost you 135pts and have 9 CC attacks, of which 3 will hit on average, against T8 target with a 3+ they average 1.5 wounds which result in about 3.75 damage. For about the same amount of points you get 20boyz which do 53.33 hits 8.88 wounds which result in just shy of 3 damage. So against the BEST possible target for Kanz they do about the same amount of damage as boyz.

The Kan is about as valuable as the IG's Armored Sentinel. The Sentinel is faster, Tougher and has more wounds, that alone should compensate for the difference in CC ability. So why the hell is the Kan almost 25% more expensive? AND last time I checked, IG players weren't falling over themselves to take Armored Sentinels in any list unless they needed to fill out a Brigade detachment, because unlike Kanz, sentinels count as FA not HS.

In my opinion if Kanz don't get down to 35pts MINIMUM then they won't be competitive, or in other words, nobody will take them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/29 01:29:53


Post by: Vineheart01


actually that kan trio would have 12 attacks. They get +1 attack if theres 3 or more kanz.
The only way i want them in melee if theyre somehow still at 5-6 strong. 20-24 dice even with their terrible WS is still pretty dang mean considering theyre high AP and 3 damage.

But, yeah agree on literally everything else.

Adding to that: Kanz suffer from bad morale too. Theyre just squishy enough where its likely to pop two of them, which gives you pretty good odds at one fleeing. Nobody else has that problem, they either split up on deployment or actually have GOOD leadership/arent that easy to pop multiples in one go.

edit: comically though, killakanz are fething dangerous in Apoc lol. My opponent ignored them out of habit and they just baffled both of us with how durable they were and how nasty they shot lol. But thats apoc so moot point, just a funny one.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/29 09:25:44


Post by: Tomsug


There are just 2 great aspects of Killakans

1. Great models. Box of kans is the great spare part conversion box. I love it.

2. They can explode. Which is fun. But not competitive.


Another topic - shoota boyz - evil sunz or badmoonz? despite “shoota” in their name, they do bigger damage in cc. But the point is to shoot something and do not boost them with BM culture = take the slugga boyz instead.

What seems to me to be the breaking point is, the mostly shooting army with the badmoonz lootas etc appreciate another yellow gretchkins from another bat for proper grotshield more. I played evil sunz slugga boyz with this army last time and the evil sunz gretchkins was like meh... just a screen. No synergies


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/29 13:02:06


Post by: flandarz


The sad thing about Kan explosions is that they also explode on themselves.

I like my Boyz as Evil Sunz, personally, but a double firing Bad Moonz Shoota Boy unit has the potential to clear screens very well (120 shots, 52 hits, 26 Wounds vs T4, 13 Damage after 4+ Save). So, I guess it's up to you.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/29 17:40:04


Post by: tneva82


 Tomsug wrote:


Another topic - shoota boyz - evil sunz or badmoonz? despite “shoota” in their name, they do bigger damage in cc. But the point is to shoot something and do not boost them with BM culture = take the slugga boyz instead.

What seems to me to be the breaking point is, the mostly shooting army with the badmoonz lootas etc appreciate another yellow gretchkins from another bat for proper grotshield more. I played evil sunz slugga boyz with this army last time and the evil sunz gretchkins was like meh... just a screen. No synergies


Evil suns for me. Bad moon just shoots. Evil sun can also be used in cc semi reliably. With shootas evil suns can remove one chaff and then charge another unit(s). Bad moons you shoot and then pray for dices.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/29 19:07:41


Post by: Latro_


So gonna do a dread army with a stompa as a centre piece, bit of a fun army really but want a bit of a punch.

how would you guys run a FW kustom stompa?
dual claw and a bellygun?

what would you guys do in a themed list like this? Its basically gonna be like ork knights so naughts, stompa, kans and dreads.
grots and meks are ok but thats about it for inf


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/29 22:44:33


Post by: Quackzo


 Latro_ wrote:
So gonna do a dread army with a stompa as a centre piece, bit of a fun army really but want a bit of a punch.

how would you guys run a FW kustom stompa?
dual claw and a bellygun?

what would you guys do in a themed list like this? Its basically gonna be like ork knights so naughts, stompa, kans and dreads.
grots and meks are ok but thats about it for inf


Stompa's in my opinion are a great (but overly expensive) dakka platform. So I would do bellygun + lifta droppa + deffkannnon w/ supa-gatler.
The mega klaw's are pretty bad, the 8 attacks is cool but you give up so much dakka for it and they're straight up worse than the vanilla stompa's mega-choppa. The melee in them is a bit of a trap, you can get way more melee value out of 3 'nauts than a single stompa.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/29 23:31:58


Post by: Latro_


looking at it more unless missing something, the normal stompa is now better? no gaze but its like nearly 200pts cheaper! CC weapon is better, repair thing is better...

stomplist is so far:
Spoiler:
Supreme Command
Stompa 920
"deffkannon, supa-gatler, 3 big shootas, twin big
shoota, 5 supa-rokkits, skorcha, mega-choppa"
Big Mek, KFF 75
Weirdboy 62
Weirdboy 62

Batallion (Dreadmob)
Big Mek (Shokk Attack Gun) WL - Relic SAG 80
Big Mek (Shokk Attack Gun) 80
11 Grots 33
11 Grots 33
11 Grots 33
3 Killa Kans (3 RL, Klaws) 156
3 Killa Kans (3 RL, Klaws) 156
Morkanaught (KFF) 310


SC so the stompa gets cultures thinking bad moons for shooty or snakbite to keep him safer?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 01:03:02


Post by: ManTube


 Latro_ wrote:
looking at it more unless missing something, the normal stompa is now better? no gaze but its like nearly 200pts cheaper! CC weapon is better, repair thing is better...

stomplist is so far:
Spoiler:
Supreme Command
Stompa 920
"deffkannon, supa-gatler, 3 big shootas, twin big
shoota, 5 supa-rokkits, skorcha, mega-choppa"
Big Mek, KFF 75
Weirdboy 62
Weirdboy 62

Batallion (Dreadmob)
Big Mek (Shokk Attack Gun) WL - Relic SAG 80
Big Mek (Shokk Attack Gun) 80
11 Grots 33
11 Grots 33
11 Grots 33
3 Killa Kans (3 RL, Klaws) 156
3 Killa Kans (3 RL, Klaws) 156
Morkanaught (KFF) 310


SC so the stompa gets cultures thinking bad moons for shooty or snakbite to keep him safer?


I'd probably run him badmoons for shooty. Stompa fires a lot of shots so you are going to get lots of mileage out of that re-roll ones. I'd also drop the kanz for a gorkanaut, better stratagem support and imo tougher and more dangerous. Kanz drop like flies, T5 5 wounds at 3+ save is pretty easy to chew through even with anti-infantry weapons. Also, I'm pretty sure morkanaut with kff is only 293 points, not 310.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 02:46:32


Post by: flandarz


You could go with Dreadz too, instead of Kanz. They ain't as killy as Gorks, but they can put in some work, and they can be more survivable since they split into separate units.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 03:22:08


Post by: tneva82


 Latro_ wrote:
looking at it more unless missing something, the normal stompa is now better? no gaze but its like nearly 200pts cheaper! CC weapon is better, repair thing is better...



That would make kustom stompa just worse. As it is apart from automatic lose buttons that titans are stompas are pretty much next on list of worst units in game. Not that shooty and are lucky to survive 1 round(has happened to me once. With 4 wounds).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 03:27:45


Post by: flandarz


Yeah, even with T8, Sv3+, and 40 Wounds, Stompas just go down too easy. Which is a shame, considering they're supposed to be these awesome giant robots that strike fear in the hearts of man.

Edit: and cost 3 times more than any of the more survivable LoWs. I think Slaanesh is the only Faction with a worse LoW, and that's only because it has no ranged attacks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 04:53:58


Post by: Vineheart01


Regular stompa is technically better than the Kustom Stompa...
That...really isnt saying much.

A single knight will do more than a stompa, mostly because the moment the stompa takes even 10 friggen damage he is reduced to nothing but a stupid gun platform since now his melee sucks and he is slow. Doing said 10 damage is easy, since a stompa using kultures wont have proper support and thus is the only real threat, so it eats ALL the 3D and D6+ damage weapons with nothing but a KFF keeping it alive, while the knight at least can get a 4++ and if Taranis also has FNP.
If you want to use a stompa you are looking at ~1100pts for him and the 3 HQs you need to take if you want kultures. And thats with 2 of them being weirdboyz, which dont really do much without a big blob of boyz that you cannot afford now. That is, unless you literally only have a stompa, which in 8th edition is a REALLY bad move to only have 1 vehicle.

That 40 wound pool means nothing. GW needs to fix the bracket system for 4 bracket units. They are ALL crippled by it, even the Titans suck royal gakballs because of that stupid 4th bracket. I thought about getting a titan for my Admech so i could play some big games...no...heck no they all are absolutely terrible thanks almost purely because of that stupid 4bracket system.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 05:49:31


Post by: tneva82


Titans are bad even if they had just one bracket. They literally cannot kill enough to win. As it is opponent brings warhound, I don't even bother to try to kill it. Not because it's impossible but because it slows the game down taking more time to win than if I just ramp up objectives...If opponent wants to be crazy enough to bring at least let him to kill stuff rather than table him. He's going to lose anyway so at least he gets to kill stuff in return.

And doubt I would be more impressed with stompa with zero degration either. Out of all the games that would have mattered just once. Shoot once more at full strenght. Whopedoo. Big deal! (actually did degrade even affect shooting? If not no degrade would have had zero effect)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 07:22:22


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah the SAG roll changed awhile ago and i have been relishing in it.
Oh i rolled absolute crap on my strength....ok lets pop some marines or termies
Rolled S9+? Hello knight!


Why does this work only for the SAG and not for the SuperSAG? Is it because the SAG was mentioned explitely in the (beforelast) FAQ?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 08:04:02


Post by: Jidmah


 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah the SAG roll changed awhile ago and i have been relishing in it.
Oh i rolled absolute crap on my strength....ok lets pop some marines or termies
Rolled S9+? Hello knight!


Why does this work only for the SAG and not for the SuperSAG? Is it because the SAG was mentioned explitely in the (beforelast) FAQ?


When you replace the SAG with the SSAG, it tell you to replace the profile with the one from Vigilus Defiant - which has not received any errata.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 08:20:52


Post by: Emicrania


I honestly believe that was an oversight. We should mail he so they can Faq the Faq'ed faq.

See what I did there ?!


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 09:27:03


Post by: Quackzo


Definitely email them, I'm making a list of questions right now. The codex itself is fine, it's just all the ork rules outside of the codex need some attention in my opinion.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 10:01:46


Post by: Singleton Mosby


 Jidmah wrote:
 Singleton Mosby wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah the SAG roll changed awhile ago and i have been relishing in it.
Oh i rolled absolute crap on my strength....ok lets pop some marines or termies
Rolled S9+? Hello knight!


Why does this work only for the SAG and not for the SuperSAG? Is it because the SAG was mentioned explitely in the (beforelast) FAQ?


When you replace the SAG with the SSAG, it tell you to replace the profile with the one from Vigilus Defiant - which has not received any errata.


Thanks. That clears it up and makes it clear how to play them (for now).

This is a good reason to take multiple SAG's in a list (beside the SSAG).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 10:12:18


Post by: Latro_


Well with the stompa my idea is maybe rock snakebite.

So assume 2+ heal d3 is always on (just cp it if not). That's d3 back a turn so average 2.

You have a KFF mek in there so it has a 5++.

Snakebite ignore wounds on a 6.

So assume it lasts 3 turns before dead (maybe optimistic)
ye gettin 6 back from repairs
46 wounds
of those snakebite is gonna save 8
so more like 54 wounds?

know its still overcosted trash but going for a theme army (i made a stompa years ago from scratch) so just thinking the most optimised


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/09/30 16:00:11


Post by: JNAProductions


To figure out how FNP helps, multiply total wounds by the reciprocal of the odds of FAILING the FNP.

In other words, a 6+ FNP has a 5/6 chance of failing. To find out how many effective wounds it adds, multiply by 6/5, or 1.2.

So that's 48 effective wounds without any repairing.
50.4 with one turn of repairs.
52.8 with two turns.
And just add 2.4 wounds for every extra repair you get.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/01 20:36:07


Post by: Vineheart01


Anybody have any opinion on Big Trakks?
I think my intense interest in vehicle focused orks is clouding my judgement. They seem like pretty good gun platforms.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/01 22:29:39


Post by: Quackzo


 Vineheart01 wrote:
Anybody have any opinion on Big Trakks?
I think my intense interest in vehicle focused orks is clouding my judgement. They seem like pretty good gun platforms.


I ran them with supa-skorchas a lot before the codex. They're great but they're relatively expensive, the chassis is 20 points more than a battlewagon with an overall worse statline except for it's movement.

A few upsides: open topped is useful. Their chassis cost can be mitigated by slapping in as much dakka as possible. They're weirdly fast. Access to a lot of cool guns.

A few downsides: they attract attention and arent the sturdiest thing so you tend to want at least two. Depending on what you want to do with them, you'll probably find another Ork unit that can tick that box for cheaper. Eg dakkajet vs supa-skorcha.

I might try running them again with flashgitz or tank bustas.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/01 22:34:02


Post by: flandarz


I feel like they might work well as a Burna Boy transport option, with Open-Topped. Can be about any Kultur, because of auto-hits, so it could get a 6++ with Deathskullz. Still, it IS expensive, and the meta is stacked against them in terms of survivability.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 01:05:16


Post by: Vineheart01


I decided to splurg and grab 2 of the new Kromlech tigerwagons and figured they'd be cool bigtrakk proxies. (expensive proxies but still a little cheaper than the official Bigtrakk w/ supa and looks way cooler imo)
They do seem a little pricy but 181pts for the supa kannon variant w/ 2 bigshootas doesnt sound too bad since its range and speed will help keep it out of trouble.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 02:09:44


Post by: Grimskul


 Vineheart01 wrote:
I decided to splurg and grab 2 of the new Kromlech tigerwagons and figured they'd be cool bigtrakk proxies. (expensive proxies but still a little cheaper than the official Bigtrakk w/ supa and looks way cooler imo)
They do seem a little pricy but 181pts for the supa kannon variant w/ 2 bigshootas doesnt sound too bad since its range and speed will help keep it out of trouble.


If there is a Kultur that Blood Axes are actually useful for, its Big Trakks. It means that they get a 3+ save against most shooting that targets them since they don't need to be close to do damage like most Ork vehicles, and more importantly, they get to fall back and shoot, meaning that outside of the opponent wrapping the whole vehicle, tying them in CC with chaff doesn't do anything.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 02:59:10


Post by: Vineheart01


Valid points. Would be a way for me to sneak in Snikrot too since his only real issue is that kulture he's locked to isnt that useful.

Loss of Bad Moonz or Deathskullz reroll in shooting would suck but i think making them a less interesting target is a wise move.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 03:10:39


Post by: Heafstaag


How are orks fairing against new Space Marines?

I haven't played my orks since early spring, and man, I cannot think of how I would take on my own marines with a 50/50 chance of winning.

It seems like they'll just get mowed down, and any survivors would be krumped.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 03:11:45


Post by: flandarz


Probably the same way we'd take down old Marines, honestly. Bad Moonz Lootaz, Smashaz, SSAG, Gretchin, etc.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 03:31:02


Post by: Heafstaag


 flandarz wrote:
Probably the same way we'd take down old Marines, honestly. Bad Moonz Lootaz, Smashaz, SSAG, Gretchin, etc.


Bleh.

I play Snakebites or Evil Sons, depending on my mood.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 04:05:43


Post by: flandarz


Well, you asked. Hahaha! You could probably see some success with some Da Jumped Evil Sunz Choppa Boyz. They might be more durable and killy now, but they still got to respect 90+ attacks coming at them.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 05:40:28


Post by: hollow one


Heafstaag wrote:
How are orks fairing against new Space Marines?

I haven't played my orks since early spring, and man, I cannot think of how I would take on my own marines with a 50/50 chance of winning.

It seems like they'll just get mowed down, and any survivors would be krumped.
Play snakebites: Trukk/BWs filled with Nobz equipped with Big Choppa/Choppa. Don't get surrounded.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 05:45:07


Post by: tneva82


Heafstaag wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
Probably the same way we'd take down old Marines, honestly. Bad Moonz Lootaz, Smashaz, SSAG, Gretchin, etc.


Bleh.

I play Snakebites or Evil Sons, depending on my mood.


Going to be tough one. Ultramarines moving and shooting as if stationary means they will be moving away from you at ease with zero impact on firepower making non-DS hard to catch them with. Iron hands are particular bug bear though. Resilient to our shooting, rerolls by bucketload and added insult their overwatch hits like brick. Don't plan on charging repulsor. That thing overwatch over 10 boyz in average so your +1 attack goes right away. Besides being 10"+ charge from DS even for evil suns...(seriously how are you supposed to deal with 3 of those?). Even the leviathan drops some 5-6 easily. More if uses stratagem.

That leviathan eats lootas and tank bustas at will if he wants with damage 1 for those. Did orks have any flat high damage? d6 is bit unreliable as even with 6 that's 2 damage...bugger. Generally don't bother killing IH leviathan. If you can get unit of boyz charged into it so it can't fall back do that. Other than that just try to eat the casualties. Problem with charging without circling is that it's possible it has the ability to consolidiate any direction so if he can moves he moves OUT of combat in your turn so can shoot on his. Double check does he have this(warlord trait I think) before charging if you can't trap it.

Lootas might be more useful again as they one shot those primaris marines. Tank bustas could be good to hunt aggressors. Yeah not vehicles but flat 3 drops them and their bazillion shots(well 20 per model) in one go.

Alas shooty orks seems to be best way to deal with it. Slugging over open field is suicide and DS charges aren't that reliable tool anymore(12" pushbacks, overwatch casualties ramping up, more ways for them to disengage and shoot, fly tanks getting better etc etc).



No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/02 23:05:01


Post by: Latro_


ManTube wrote:
 Latro_ wrote:
looking at it more unless missing something, the normal stompa is now better? no gaze but its like nearly 200pts cheaper! CC weapon is better, repair thing is better...

stomplist is so far:
Spoiler:
Supreme Command
Stompa 920
"deffkannon, supa-gatler, 3 big shootas, twin big
shoota, 5 supa-rokkits, skorcha, mega-choppa"
Big Mek, KFF 75
Weirdboy 62
Weirdboy 62

Batallion (Dreadmob)
Big Mek (Shokk Attack Gun) WL - Relic SAG 80
Big Mek (Shokk Attack Gun) 80
11 Grots 33
11 Grots 33
11 Grots 33
3 Killa Kans (3 RL, Klaws) 156
3 Killa Kans (3 RL, Klaws) 156
Morkanaught (KFF) 310


SC so the stompa gets cultures thinking bad moons for shooty or snakbite to keep him safer?


I'd probably run him badmoons for shooty. Stompa fires a lot of shots so you are going to get lots of mileage out of that re-roll ones. I'd also drop the kanz for a gorkanaut, better stratagem support and imo tougher and more dangerous. Kanz drop like flies, T5 5 wounds at 3+ save is pretty easy to chew through even with anti-infantry weapons. Also, I'm pretty sure morkanaut with kff is only 293 points, not 310.


=220+20+10+10+9+17+12+12

model, kff, twin shoota, twin shoota, KMB, KMZ, rokkit rokkit? 310


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 06:07:05


Post by: ManTube


Ah, you are correct, I thought the KMZ was priced at 0 like the deffstorm mega shoota is, seeing as its a unique weapon to the morkanaut. Now I need to find another 17 points in my list..,


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 11:30:05


Post by: landy


Am going to participate in some local noob tournament (1000 pts matched play), notable thing is 4 of 11 currently registered players are orks. Wow, mycelium gone big here

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [49 PL, 1,000pts] ++[/b]

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +
Warboss (Attack Squig, Big Choppa, Kustom Shoota, Warlord)
Weirdboy

+ Troops +
Boyz x30 (20 slugga, 10 shoota, no PK)
Gretchin x10
Gretchin x10
Gretchin x10

+ Heavy Support +
Gorkanaut
Lootas x15


You probably have a question "what? big choppa?", but let me explain. I'm worried about jumping the only boys and leaving weirdboy alone in the field, so I was in need to find some points for another gretching squad, deleted biked boss and excess klaws.
The rest of plan is casual.
If I have to attack, I put boss into gnaut and tellyport it T2 after boys jumping T1. Well, better then footslogging.
If I have to hold the line, I spread the boys around and hold it.

What do you think, is it any viable? Or is it better to stop mucking about, drop the boss, drop 1 grot squad and enjoy biker PK boss?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 12:05:18


Post by: Weazel


Oh snap, rolling 11 STR 11 shots on the SSAG makes a lot of damage. 18 damage (after saves) on a 4++/5+++ T8 Plagueburst Crawler in a single shooting phase. Then again, on the previous turn 13 Tankbustas, 3 Smashas and the SSAG managed a whopping 3 damage on another Crawler. Random game is random.

But yeah, for 80 points the SSAG is kinda auto take even if it usually whiffs spectacularly.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 12:07:39


Post by: flandarz


Well, 80 pts and 1 CP, but I agree. I've had games were he dealt 3 damage to a MEQ over the entire course of the game, and other games where he's destroyed everything he looks at. He's cheap enough that the risk that he'll do nothing is acceptable.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 12:52:35


Post by: Quackzo


Don't forget the ammo runt, he can eat a shot from the vindicare assassin and because a model died, the vindicare can't roll for extra mortal wounds. 4 points to buy an extra turn on your SSAG and you save grot shields for another unit (or turn).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 13:01:04


Post by: tneva82


Well double shoot for vrndicare...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 13:33:24


Post by: Quackzo


Double shoot for the vindicare MUST target a DIFFERENT character, so you're still good.

For an anecdote, I had this come up in a recent game where two big meks with SAG's got fired at by a vindicare with double shooting. I needed to save grot shields for my lootas and the vindicare ended up just killing two grot oilers for the price of 2cp. The next turn the vindicare shot I just got to use grot shields and and by sheer luck the second big mek didn't die from the damage.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 13:35:30


Post by: tneva82


Aaa ok never seen same character survive first shot so didn'" know that one


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 13:43:21


Post by: Quackzo


Yeah, I think vindicare is a potentially powerful choice against orks in that it can wipe out our characters easily, but you can most likely block LOS on most HQ's if you're facing one. The HQ's that are most likely in LOS are the Big Meks and Badrukk, who have access to ablative wound grots.
As previously mentioned if the above fails we can use grot shield IF they hit.
So it's still potentially a powerful counter, if we expose ourselves to them. I think if you play right it's the weakest assassin vs orks.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 13:57:56


Post by: tneva82


If you use grot screen there though bye bye lootas/tank bustas you might be having though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 14:52:29


Post by: some bloke


What's the best thing to chuck in a gorkamorkanaught in a tellyporta? CC or shooting?

Thinking 6 Tankbustas or flashgits, jumping out in a good linebreaking position and running into cover whilst the 'naught goes and kills something could be tactically advantageous. I hadn't thought of putting characters in there, I tend to think of small, disposable units in general (not that I'd put gits in that category!).
barebones CC nobs could do some damage if they tellyport in behind the chaff, for not too many points.

What do people put in their tellyporting 'nauts? (if anything!)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 14:56:31


Post by: Vineheart01


I generally dont put squat in there. If i do its probably the random Mek because not like hes that valuable of a target to kill and can do some serious damage if his gun hits. Plus can fix the naut, since he has to sit around a turn hes bound to do 1 repair job before he or the naut dies (assuming the naut didnt get 1shotted by something)

Only actual unit ive ever put in there is 6 nobz. Nothing else feels strong enough at 6 to actually hurt something or is too expensive to bother. 6 nobz with dual choppas and 1-2 bigchoppas is pretty dang cheap for how many attacks they get.

Its clearly designed to have 3 MANz inside, given how it was originally advertised with a squad of the new plastic MANz in front of it. But of course in 8th 3 random PKs is not really that big of a threat. Unless you were planning to tellyport him near an objective for them to just park it on, total waste of time (since thats really all MANz do anyway these days)


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 15:52:22


Post by: Jidmah


 some bloke wrote:
What's the best thing to chuck in a gorkamorkanaught in a tellyporta? CC or shooting?

Thinking 6 Tankbustas or flashgits, jumping out in a good linebreaking position and running into cover whilst the 'naught goes and kills something could be tactically advantageous. I hadn't thought of putting characters in there, I tend to think of small, disposable units in general (not that I'd put gits in that category!).
barebones CC nobs could do some damage if they tellyport in behind the chaff, for not too many points.

What do people put in their tellyporting 'nauts? (if anything!)


Nothing is probably the right answer. I had some fun with putting a tellporta blasta MA mek in there, with an oiler to eat a potential explosion, but that was just because I wanted to see the tellyporta blasta in action.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 15:58:52


Post by: Vineheart01


I want to like the tellyporta blasta but theres like nothing that could survive that hit and still be subject to the after effect.
If it counted wounds remaining rather than wound profile it would be amazing. Stupid dread survived by 2 wounds? Nope, he dead.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 16:22:06


Post by: tneva82


If passengers could disembark after tellyporta that transport ability would be much more useful. If only...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 18:03:33


Post by: flandarz


If I put anything in a Gork, it's a Mega Mek with KFF. But generally I just leave it empty. 8th just made Transporting things bad.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/03 18:35:49


Post by: Vineheart01


Its more theres just nothing useful that fits anymore.

The only reason i used transports in the past at all was to get my PKs across the table asap, since they generally deleted vehicles without much effort and loved hitting characters or other T4 or below multiwound models. The 3 MANz in a trukk "Manz Missile" was a devastating cheap tactic in the past, justifying weapons that cost far more than it did to get rid of it before it got across the table.
Thats gone. PKs are more of a slightly dangerous weapon now than the severe major threat they once were. Now unless you only got 1-2 wounds you probably dont care about the random PK user since yeah he will hurt you...he wont kill you though. Meanwhile that 15 blob of Lootas will


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 01:50:16


Post by: flandarz


Well, the lack of Open-Topped hurts too. Because you can only Disembark at the beginning of the Movement Phase, Transports with Open-Topped are basically just a worse Da Jump for the unit inside it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 09:50:08


Post by: Latro_


Anyone thing the bad moons relic is worth it?

Thinking of putting it on my WB for funs. With a kombi skorcha thats 3d6 s5 -1 dmg at 8"

Worry is at that range, opponent is gonna be removing dudes to reduce your charge range


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 09:52:06


Post by: Jidmah


Nick Sutherlands places first against 103 other players at Iron Halo:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/dcb6y4/pandas_weekend_rundown_928929_guest_host_the/

Notable stuff:
- Evil Suns boyz (these start to become staples)
- Lots of smashas and SAG
- Lootas


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 13:27:34


Post by: DrGiggles


 Jidmah wrote:
Nick Sutherlands places first against 103 other players at Iron Halo:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/dcb6y4/pandas_weekend_rundown_928929_guest_host_the/

Notable stuff:
- Evil Suns boyz (these start to become staples)
- Lots of smashas and SAG
- Lootas



What are the odds the Smasha gets nerfed in CA?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 13:29:08


Post by: Vineheart01


i'd say pretty high.
I dont think ive seen a comp list without at least 6 of them.

I just hope they do it by making the chassis more expensive not the gun. Otherwise the wazbom gets hurt, and its kinda on thin ice in terms of priced right.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 13:33:24


Post by: DrGiggles


 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd say pretty high.
I dont think ive seen a comp list without at least 6 of them.

I just hope they do it by making the chassis more expensive not the gun. Otherwise the wazbom gets hurt, and its kinda on thin ice in terms of priced right.


I just hope they actually buff our weaker units for a change. I'd like to be able to use bikes or my kanz without it feeling like a giant handicap.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 13:39:20


Post by: Jidmah


 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd say pretty high.
I dont think ive seen a comp list without at least 6 of them.

I just hope they do it by making the chassis more expensive not the gun. Otherwise the wazbom gets hurt, and its kinda on thin ice in terms of priced right.


They could just reduce the points of the Wazbomm chasis to compensate - they have done similar things for other armies.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 15:10:30


Post by: Vineheart01


 DrGiggles wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd say pretty high.
I dont think ive seen a comp list without at least 6 of them.

I just hope they do it by making the chassis more expensive not the gun. Otherwise the wazbom gets hurt, and its kinda on thin ice in terms of priced right.


I just hope they actually buff our weaker units for a change. I'd like to be able to use bikes or my kanz without it feeling like a giant handicap.


Agreed.
i have 24 warbikers, i'd like to actually get to use them without feeling like im trying to win the lottery on their survival.
If the enemy's auto equiv doesnt target them they do some serious work (some pretty crazy shooting after all). But...geez they go down way too easy...


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 16:54:25


Post by: JimOnMars


 Vineheart01 wrote:
i'd say pretty high.
I dont think ive seen a comp list without at least 6 of them.

I just hope they do it by making the chassis more expensive not the gun. Otherwise the wazbom gets hurt, and its kinda on thin ice in terms of priced right.


Except then the bubblechukka goes up in points...obviously not a tearjerker because it is already in Joke territory.

There no way to balance smashas without making multiple changes at once.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 17:06:55


Post by: tneva82


You can always drop cost of bubblechukka. To negative points if nothing else works


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 17:13:33


Post by: Vineheart01


i dont even think i'd use the bubblechukka if it was a 5pt gun.

Yeah thats (assuming chassis didnt change) 20pt moderately durable weapon but its a weapon that wont do jack squat against a LOT of targets.

Its such a bad weapon by design right now, points being irrelevant for it.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 17:28:33


Post by: flandarz


Bubblechucka REALLY should have had 2d6 for the Strength roll, not a single d6. Best case scenario (which will only happen 1 out of 1,296 times) is 6 shots with S6, AP-6, and D6. Might be worth taking if the average Strength was at least a 7. Then you could price it around... probably 20 pts. Slightly more than a Smasha.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 17:34:58


Post by: Vineheart01


yeah cause its ultimate problem is its almost NEVER wounding on 4s or better. Even against guardsmen, its a 50-50 chance to wound on 4s or better and if youre firing a weapon capable of D6 damage at guardsmen...wtf man lol.

Anything it wants to shoot its got really bad odds at hurting and doesnt have the RoF to offset that problem.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 17:37:36


Post by: flandarz


Yup. Not enough shots to be anti-infantry (even though the average Strength is 3.5), and not enough Strength to be anti-armor. It's in this limbo area where it just isn't good at anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If it had a "can target characters" rule, it MIGHT be a decent sniper, though.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 17:56:18


Post by: Emicrania


I feel that limiting the gunz to 3 every slot would be enough. Yes smashaguns are good, but mathematics are not really game breaking.
10 smashaguns (310 points), given are all in range and hit nothing with modifiers, are 20 shots hitting on 4+, so 10 hits vs s T7 veichle or monster that , again have no Invu , is 17 W. So a dead Rhino. Vs knight should be around 5-6W. The sky ain't falling.
Vs centurions and aggressors or SM are awesome, but anything else, they will shine, but not break the game .
I would thought definitely limit how many we can take. 18 is ridiculous.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 18:07:19


Post by: MannyMcCoconut


 Emicrania wrote:
I feel that limiting the gunz to 3 every slot would be enough. Yes smashaguns are good, but mathematics are not really game breaking.
10 smashaguns (310 points), given are all in range and hit nothing with modifiers, are 20 shots hitting on 4+, so 10 hits vs s T7 veichle or monster that , again have no Invu , is 17 W. So a dead Rhino. Vs knight should be around 5-6W. The sky ain't falling.
Vs centurions and aggressors or SM are awesome, but anything else, they will shine, but not break the game .
I would thought definitely limit how many we can take. 18 is ridiculous.


Especially considering home much each gun costs ($).


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 18:18:00


Post by: jseverin


Playing league games at my LFGS, and bringing a kan wall. Index allowed, so taking a few with KMB's. 12 kans, Bike Mek with KFF, Wartrike with Surly like a Squiggoth. Not meta by any means, but hoping the KFF and fearless keep them around a little longer. Got a Meka-dread with KFF to hopefully draw fire and help shield as well.

Wondering if I should take the toughness 7 wartrike for survivability or the buzzbomb :/.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 18:53:13


Post by: flandarz


Individually, Smashas are a joke, and if they were 1 per unit, they'd probably be TOO expensive. What makes them good is that you CAN take a bunch of them. That improves the durability of them (because they split), and makes it more likely you'll deal damage instead of whiffing. They're honestly pretty comparable to Lootaz (point for point) when it comes to damage output, but significantly more durable if you don't use Grot Shields.

But, yeah. I feel like they're actually costed appropriately for what you get and the easiest way to balance them would be to put a smaller limit the number you can take. 3 per unit sounds good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
jseverin wrote:
Playing league games at my LFGS, and bringing a kan wall. Index allowed, so taking a few with KMB's. 12 kans, Bike Mek with KFF, Wartrike with Surly like a Squiggoth. Not meta by any means, but hoping the KFF and fearless keep them around a little longer. Got a Meka-dread with KFF to hopefully draw fire and help shield as well.

Wondering if I should take the toughness 7 wartrike for survivability or the buzzbomb :/.


If you can, add a couple of Dreadz. They're more of a threat (especially if you can manage to get them in charging range), so they'll draw a lot of fire that would have been meant for the Kanz. As for the Trike: you're better off with Supa Cybork than the +1 Toughness, if you want survivability. And if you're close enough to throw the Buzzbomb, you're close enough to hit with all of his guns, which is a much better option.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 19:23:42


Post by: JimOnMars


 flandarz wrote:
Individually, Smashas are a joke, and if they were 1 per unit, they'd probably be TOO expensive. What makes them good is that you CAN take a bunch of them. That improves the durability of them (because they split), and makes it more likely you'll deal damage instead of whiffing.

Not sure I agree. They seems pretty linear to me, with the added bonus of single gun deployments can drop the unit in a tighter area on the board. 93 points to fill out the heavy slots of a brigade is also very nice, with a good chance of dropping one or two D6 damages per turn.

Having fewer means you are more likely (per point spent) to be able to re-roll the d6 if you really want to change that 1.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 19:50:52


Post by: flandarz


A single Smasha is gonna get 2 shots, 1 hit, 0.53 Wounds against T7, and 1.85 damage if the target doesn't have an Invuln. It basically can't move from wherever you set it up, meaning you don't want it out of LoS (even if you can fit it), and it's large enough that finding cover for it is near impossible. With T5, W5, and a 4+ Save, it's also incredibly fragile.

So, what I'm saying is that it's being able to spam Smashas which makes them good. If you could only take a few of them, no one would even bother.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 22:07:03


Post by: Jidmah


 JimOnMars wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
Individually, Smashas are a joke, and if they were 1 per unit, they'd probably be TOO expensive. What makes them good is that you CAN take a bunch of them. That improves the durability of them (because they split), and makes it more likely you'll deal damage instead of whiffing.

Not sure I agree. They seems pretty linear to me, with the added bonus of single gun deployments can drop the unit in a tighter area on the board. 93 points to fill out the heavy slots of a brigade is also very nice, with a good chance of dropping one or two D6 damages per turn.

Having fewer means you are more likely (per point spent) to be able to re-roll the d6 if you really want to change that 1.


One of the big selling points is getting six T5 wounds for 31 points. By bringing two full units (12 seems to be the magical number, judging from tournament results), you just plonk down 72 wounds that can seriously threaten pretty much any enemy for considerably less points than two units of boyz. At some point, you just have more smashas than an enemy can handle in one turn.

It's really the same principle as a green tide, except you are paying less than 6 points per wound, while boyz pay 7. So I do think that limiting them to just 9 per army would reduce their power somewhat.


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 22:48:19


Post by: Emicrania


What about those units in the forge world xenos FAQ. The "Attack Fighta", "Fighta Bommer", "Grot Bomm Launcha" and the "Deathrolla battle fortress". Are they for narrative play only?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 22:51:23


Post by: flandarz


I haven't seen them on Battlescribe, for what that's worth. Do they have point costs?


No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 22:51:25


Post by: JimOnMars


 flandarz wrote:
A single Smasha is gonna get 2 shots, 1 hit, 0.53 Wounds against T7, and 1.85 damage if the target doesn't have an Invuln. It basically can't move from wherever you set it up, meaning you don't want it out of LoS (even if you can fit it), and it's large enough that finding cover for it is near impossible. With T5, W5, and a 4+ Save, it's also incredibly fragile.

So, what I'm saying is that it's being able to spam Smashas which makes them good. If you could only take a few of them, no one would even bother.


You could probably say the same thing about boyz, or any other unit for that matter (especially for orks that seem to always want to skew.) Which makes you correct, but not specifically for smashas. 180 boyz is probably more than 18 times better than 10 boyz.







No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya] @ 2019/10/04 22:54:18


Post by: flandarz


Yes. That was my point. A single Boy ain't gonna do nothing for ya (though he can do a bit more than a Smasha since you have more options than "sit still and shoot" with a Boy). Now, some units ARE good at the MSU level. But Smashas ain't one of them.