Asterios wrote: well it seems the voting update forums are dying, looks like the yes vote win by a landslide and that's just on the ones who didn't vote.
For a guy who thinks he can do no wrong, it's entertaining that Simbieda had to rig the vote ahead of time.
Asterios wrote: well it seems the voting update forums are dying, looks like the yes vote win by a landslide and that's just on the ones who didn't vote.
For a guy who thinks he can do no wrong, it's entertaining that Simbieda had to rig the vote ahead of time.
Merijeek wrote: For a guy who thinks he can do no wrong, it's entertaining that Simbieda had to rig the vote ahead of time.
But Merijeek, he's since stated that it wasn't his intention to rig the vote, it was his intention to "encourage participation" or some other such wankage. That it has obviously tainted the numbers* is irrelevant.
* Ironically, I think the taint actually hurt him. There were quite a few people who said no, because of the rigging, likely significantly more than the yes's that were "just get it over with, you already made your decision".
Of course, the swoon brigade are going to assert that the vote is relevant, now that the majority appears to be in favor. But the numbers don't lie. More backers are unhappy with this, than customers will be happy at GenCon (assuming PB aren't lying about how much stock they're taking). So, good job, Kevin.
Merijeek wrote: For a guy who thinks he can do no wrong, it's entertaining that Simbieda had to rig the vote ahead of time.
But Merijeek, he's since stated that it wasn't his intention to rig the vote, it was his intention to "encourage participation" or some other such wankage.
This sentence made me laugh pretty loudly at my desk.
So here's the real question. How many of you in this thread will be at GenCon to see what Palladium has for RRT there?
Merijeek wrote: For a guy who thinks he can do no wrong, it's entertaining that Simbieda had to rig the vote ahead of time.
But Merijeek, he's since stated that it wasn't his intention to rig the vote, it was his intention to "encourage participation" or some other such wankage.
This sentence made me laugh pretty loudly at my desk.
So here's the real question. How many of you in this thread will be at GenCon to see what Palladium has for RRT there?
I'll be in attendance. I'll hope to have my second pick t-shirt made ("Palladium Books, built on broken promises" on the front, and on the back, a concert t-shirt like dates list, but instead of venues, just listing all the significant broken promises). But I'll probably try to avoid confrontation, cause either I'll lose it, and get punted, or they'll lose it, and I'll get blamed. Lose-lose for the most part. I can't see a respectful conversation being a realistic outcome, as they've disrespected us too much for me to take what they say seriously.
I was considering a third t-shirt, but it's been pointed out, I'd probably get a punch in the mouth.
["Silence = Consent" - Kevin Siembieda, Palladium Books] on the front.
["Just trying to provoke a response"] on the back.
I'm guessing they won't. For those who don't really pay attention, Thurs, Fri and Sat are generally their 'update days', and they usually go out around 8pm-midnight EST, or whatever that is in your local time zone.
According to Google, at least part of China is 12 hours ahead of said time zone, so if it was getting underway 'today', it should already be out there, as it's getting on 3am Friday morning for them.
Not that shipping is remotely in their control. Regardless of what their service told them, it could be held up for any number of reasons beyond theirs or even anyones control.
But part of their reassurances that Gencon isn't that big a deal was that they'd have the boxes in hand with one of the most optimistic delivery schedules on Earth, and every day (hell, every hour that they fall behind, the less likely their 'omg don't worry, boxes will be going in the mail before Gencon!' statements become to happen.
We thinking they will or won't be posting a gloating Update today? Surely there will be one that says "Hey losers, it's on the boat!!!"
Which would be glorious if it gets held up at any of the sticking points along the way (travel time on water, potential slowdown/strike at the docks, customs, trucking transpo).
But I'm kinda hoping on the ashes and sackcloth "Yeah, it's held up already, someone (other than us) did done screw it up, totally not our fault for pushing an unreasonable timeline". And the Stockholmers saying how it's our fault for putting the bad karma into the ether. Cause, you know, it's all us "haters" fault. We should have believed in Kevin, and his flatulent unicorn.
Asterios wrote: Does this mean that Palladium might not have the legal rights to do their game ?
Late reply, but it doesn't matter, since no one cares to spend the $$$ to challenge Harmony Gold. It's not worth it. The Kotaku (sp) article says that HG claims it has *international* rights, but doesn't, yet they haven't been challenged on that.
If you're a regular on BoardGameGeek, you've probably heard of the IP issues with Merchants of Venus, Magic Realm, HeroQuest, and other OOP games. Who owns what part of which IP for what areas for how long and what they can do with it can become so entangled, messy, and just plain no one has any idea, that companies just drop the whole thing and start their own product. An article I read said WizKid's MechWarrior was pretty much leaving Battletech and starting with their own IP.
● We have been promising for months that we would have Robotech® RPG Tactics™ product to sell at Gen Con. People have made travel plans, hotel reservations, bought tickets to Gen Con, etc., counting on it being available at Gen Con. We thought we’d have plenty of time to ship to backers before Gen Con, but the product is coming months later than we thought it would. If we could push back Gen Con, we would, but obviously we can’t.
I honestly had no idea that Palladium and Robotech where THAT big a deal...
● We have been promising for months that we would have Robotech® RPG Tactics™ product to sell at Gen Con. People have made travel plans, hotel reservations, bought tickets to Gen Con, etc., counting on it being available at Gen Con. We thought we’d have plenty of time to ship to backers before Gen Con, but the product is coming months later than we thought it would. If we could push back Gen Con, we would, but obviously we can’t.
I honestly had no idea that Palladium and Robotech where THAT big a deal...
Look, pal! Palladium Books can't push Gen Con back. And since that is the only possible alternative, they just HAVE to sell at Gen Con.
● We have been promising for months that we would have Robotech® RPG Tactics™ product to sell at Gen Con. People have made travel plans, hotel reservations, bought tickets to Gen Con, etc., counting on it being available at Gen Con. We thought we’d have plenty of time to ship to backers before Gen Con, but the product is coming months later than we thought it would. If we could push back Gen Con, we would, but obviously we can’t.
I honestly had no idea that Palladium and Robotech where THAT big a deal...
Look, pal! Palladium Books can't push Gen Con back. And since that is the only possible alternative, they just HAVE to sell at Gen Con?
There is no other possibility!
Yeah, do you really expect them to keep the promises to their backers over the possibility of people at Gen Con.
● We have been promising for months that we would have Robotech® RPG Tactics™ product to sell at Gen Con. People have made travel plans, hotel reservations, bought tickets to Gen Con, etc., counting on it being available at Gen Con. We thought we’d have plenty of time to ship to backers before Gen Con, but the product is coming months later than we thought it would. If we could push back Gen Con, we would, but obviously we can’t.
I honestly had no idea that Palladium and Robotech where THAT big a deal...
Look, pal! Palladium Books can't push Gen Con back. And since that is the only possible alternative, they just HAVE to sell at Gen Con?
There is no other possibility!
Yeah, do you really expect them to keep the promises to their backers over the possibility of people at Gen Con.
I was really more mocking the idea that the problem here was that PB couldn't reschedule Gen Con. Everything all comes down to the fact that they just can't do it! There's no other way to avoid pissing people off!
So, any bets on the cargo container is on the top or belly of the cargo ship?
If they are faced with rough weather the top cargo containers get jettisoned to reduce roll of the ship or just plain lost due to the roll.
Good news is we could get money refunded! Interesting rule "Genral Average" See link:
http://www.oceanfreight.com/html/general_average.html
vitae_drinker wrote: Yeah, do you really expect them to keep the promises to their backers over the possibility of people at Gen Con.
Actually, that could be an entertaining sideline. Go up to them mid afternoon (after they've sold out*), wanting to buy a boxed set. When it's pointed out that they're sold out for the day, "But you promised people that it'd be available at GenCon! I travelled all the way from <insert state/country> just to get my hands on this!". Could be worth a laff or two.
* That's assuming PB are being truthful that they're only sending "a few hundred", and that there's any kind of demand for it. I don't doubt the latter, but the former, well, their word is their bondage, apparently.
Assuming that they'd be insured at full value (oops, Wayne forgot to get Kevin to sign something! No kibble for Wayne!), it's probably the single best thing that could happen to PB's bottom line.
vitae_drinker wrote: Yeah, do you really expect them to keep the promises to their backers over the possibility of people at Gen Con.
Actually, that could be an entertaining sideline. Go up to them mid afternoon (after they've sold out*), wanting to buy a boxed set. When it's pointed out that they're sold out for the day, "But you promised people that it'd be available at GenCon! I travelled all the way from <insert state/country> just to get my hands on this!". Could be worth a laff or two.
"You know, I'm a backer. And I hated the idea of you selling at Gen Con. But now that I'm here I have to have one!"
"Sorry, we're sold out."
"What? You broke your constant promise to your backers so that you could sell out in the first day?!?!? What kind of an idiot are you??"
Sooo... they MUST have product at the convention to drum up 'buzz'!
But they're only bringing a little bit of it, so there's no reason to get all ruffled about it!
But if there's only a bit of it and they sell out in the first hour, how is that any different from not having product at all? Like, if the VIPs and Vendors clear them out each morning, or they sell out in a few hours, either way, by lunch time they're not going to have anything to sell unless they dip into 'tomorrows' stock.
And if they're bringing enough to reduce that likelihood (800-999 kinda range of each), even if it doesn't cover a fraction of the demand, they could easily be talking about practically the entirety of container 1, putting a bullet in the 'we'll totally be shipping to backers while we're at Gencon, you guys!'
If anyone is going make sure to swing by the booth early and take pictures of just how much stock they actually have, I'm willing to bet it's not going to be a "just couple hundred copies" they need a cash cow and they don't have any books worth selling. I wouldn't be surprised to see them try and snake out a thousand+ copies while claiming they only brought a limited amount, as they rightly assume that their sheeple fanboys are too dumb to notice. If the limited amounts is just another lie then they need to be called on it, particularly if they pull a ploy with backers stuff can't get shjpped yet as they "didn't receive enough" which I'm expecting them to drop in an update as soon as Gen Con is finished.
stanman wrote: If anyone is going make sure to swing by the booth early and take pictures of just how much stock they actually have, I'm willing to bet it's not going to be a "just couple hundred copies" they need a cash cow and they don't have any books worth selling. I wouldn't be surprised to see them try and snake out a thousand+ copies while claiming they only brought a limited amount, as they rightly assume that their sheeple fanboys are too dumb to notice. If the limited amounts is just another lie then they need to be called on it, particularly if they pull a ploy with backers stuff can't get shjpped yet as they "didn't receive enough" which I'm expecting them to drop in an update as soon as Gen Con is finished.
Nice idea. Other one is to stop by after they've sold out (I assume they'll try to ration the total across 4 days) on the first day, and when they say to come back to tomorrow, ask how many there will be. Multiply by four. Ta da!
Nah, they've been rather tight lipped about that so far.
Assuming the molds are still good, another round of "Max" and "Miriya" seem likely.
Last year they announced their Gencon exclusives on June 14th, so their silence on the matter makes me think they know it's a contentious subject, and just don't want to stir the pot anymore than they already have.
Forar wrote: Nah, they've been rather tight lipped about that so far.
Assuming the molds are still good, another round of "Max" and "Miriya" seem likely.
Last year they announced their Gencon exclusives on June 14th, so their silence on the matter makes me think they know it's a contentious subject, and just don't want to stir the pot anymore than they already have.
Thought Kevin Said they were not going to sell any kickstarter Exclusives, problem is just about all the Convention exclusives are Kickstarter exclusives.
Max and Miriya were their Gencon exclusives from last year.
The SDF-1 is the only pure KS exclusive, and the bags may well effectively be KS exclusives if for whatever licensing reason they can't get any more than the shipment they already have. The other KS/Con exclusives don't exist yet.
Not to speak for anyone (and honestly, it's long, but I recommend reading through the thread, if just to see the dawning horror over the last year and a half), but the general consensus seemed to range between "lol", "wtf", "meh", and "fine".
To hear PB tell it every last person they show the pieces to gushes about how amazing they are, but from the (often bad) pictures we've been shown, the seams and mold lines look a bit obnoxious, the piece counts are awfully high for things that are only 1.25 to 3 inches tall, and de-spru'ing/cleaning/assembling/more cleaning of these things is going to eat up a lot of time, especially since a 'standard' 300 point game calls for dozens of figures (12-50 or so) per side.
It's one thing to take your time assembling a figure for a skirmish size game, and while this is obviously no army scale battle, dozens of mechs are going to take a while unless one is either a prodigious builder, or simply doesn't give a gak.
...and on the KS comments we finally get someone with a good reason to vote yes: They're probably out of money and without selling at Gen Con they probably can't even get the rest of Wave One shipped.
The guy wasn't even one of the regular naysayers from what I can't tell.
Merijeek wrote: ...and on the KS comments we finally get someone with a good reason to vote yes: They're probably out of money and without selling at Gen Con they probably can't even get the rest of Wave One shipped.
The guy wasn't even one of the regular naysayers from what I can't tell.
I really hope this isn't the truth, because if it is I'll be very disappointed in this project and I'd want to see where all the money from the Kickstarter went.
2. We got our first production samples of complete products this morning, and man, do they look great!
That’s all there is to report today, but I’m sure most of you are aware we’ll have another Update in a few days, after we tally up the Gen Con votes. If you haven’t voted yet, please do.
In person Kev's actually a really nice guy. Very enthusiastic about everything. I'd never say he was an donkey-cave, or at least one intentionally, he's more like a guy who might aim way too high and refuses to change his behavior. Much to the detriment of fans and everyone around him. He means well.
I live like 5 minutes down the road from Palladium, so I have interacted with him on a few occasions. The Palladium Open House they throw every couple of years is amazing. Hands down the best gaming experience I've ever had. Like 40+ hours of straight on, balls out gaming, hanging and other tomfoolery.
I get that there are fans and there are super fans, but this is overboard:
[Eric Montoya about 3 hours ago
@Rick S. if you do open a lawsuit. it'll be very easy for me to track you down. if I'm forced to do that no one will ever have to suffer another of your posts again. purge day!]
So, we're told that pro-paint and build jobs are underway so we can see what the mini's are really made of, so to speak.
Any painting / modelling pros or those who know them, have an ask around - I'd like to identify who's doing the work. No spoilers needed (so no real breach of NDA to worry about) I just want to know who's doing it.
So assuming that is the ship the container is on (not a bad assumption)...
Dock ~8pm 7/31. Unloading takes about 10 hours, so 6am 8/1.
From internet searches, customs takes about a week to clear. So 8/8 it gets loaded on a truck.
~35h non-stop on a truck, assuming no traffic. We're at 5pm 8/9.
They're going to want to leave for Gencon on the 13th so they can get there and prep the booth for opening on the 14th. That gives them 3 days to get the container unloaded, contents verified, and whatever they're taking to gencon loaded in their truck. Plus sleep. And write blog posts.
And that's assuming there are no delays in transit, no delays unloading the ship, no delays with customs, no delays with the transport company, etc. That's a really tight deadline.
...and you're forgetting that the pictures showed sprues being tossed into boxes. So, if they're planning on assembling actual retail-like packages there's that, too.
True. I'd say they're already late enough not to have product in the booth on the 14th, but maybe the 15th. At the expense of backers, of course - because that'd delay getting the backer boxes packed and shipped.
rigeld2 wrote: True. I'd say they're already late enough not to have product in the booth on the 14th, but maybe the 15th. At the expense of backers, of course - because that'd delay getting the backer boxes packed and shipped.
That would imply that Simbieda lied. That's IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!
rigeld2 wrote: True. I'd say they're already late enough not to have product in the booth on the 14th, but maybe the 15th. At the expense of backers, of course - because that'd delay getting the backer boxes packed and shipped.
That would imply that Simbieda lied. That's IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!
Bah. You know that they'd make sure two orders get fulfilled and shipped before they do anything else. Probably Boobytrap levels, with no extras. Why two? So they can claim backers (plural) had theirs shipped before it was sold at GenCon.
Personally, I'm surprised they haven't started shipping the 81 Homecoming and Battle Hymn art pledges (unless there are none without miniature components, so they can already make that claim. What's the holdup on those, I wonder?
rigeld2 wrote: True. I'd say they're already late enough not to have product in the booth on the 14th, but maybe the 15th. At the expense of backers, of course - because that'd delay getting the backer boxes packed and shipped.
That would imply that Simbieda lied. That's IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!
Bah. You know that they'd make sure two orders get fulfilled and shipped before they do anything else. Probably Boobytrap levels, with no extras. Why two? So they can claim backers (plural) had theirs shipped before it was sold at GenCon.
Personally, I'm surprised they haven't started shipping the 81 Homecoming and Battle Hymn art pledges (unless there are none without miniature components, so they can already make that claim. What's the holdup on those, I wonder?
Why would anyone on earth buy into this for the art?
Alpharius wrote: I hope someone reported that post to Kickstarter.
The very opposite of polite and considerate.
KS for some reason has no way of reporting things like this but i'm not too concerned since unlike him I know where he lives, and if I was worried could have his local PD go and visit him.
rigeld2 wrote: From internet searches, customs takes about a week to clear. So 8/8 it gets loaded on a truck.
And that's assuming there are no delays in transit, no delays unloading the ship, no delays with customs, no delays with the transport company, etc. That's a really tight deadline.
Regarding customs: I believe they claimed to have been working with someone to make this as swift/short as possible. Whether or not it actually happens remains to be seen, just saying that's what they have claimed.
But yeah, as noted, they currently need everything to essentially go perfectly if they want to make it in remotely on time.
rigeld2 wrote: From internet searches, customs takes about a week to clear. So 8/8 it gets loaded on a truck.
And that's assuming there are no delays in transit, no delays unloading the ship, no delays with customs, no delays with the transport company, etc. That's a really tight deadline.
Regarding customs: I believe they claimed to have been working with someone to make this as swift/short as possible. Whether or not it actually happens remains to be seen, just saying that's what they have claimed.
But yeah, as noted, they currently need everything to essentially go perfectly if they want to make it in remotely on time.
Forar that is something anybody who is getting stuff from overseas usually do, doesn't speed up things, but does make sure they get them though, eventually.
Alpharius wrote: I hope someone reported that post to Kickstarter.
The very opposite of polite and considerate.
KS for some reason has no way of reporting things like this but i'm not too concerned since unlike him I know where he lives, and if I was worried could have his local PD go and visit him.
Great it looks like I might get the retaliation stick cause NMI told on me on FB for posting all those memes with Kevin. So I give my money to PB, let them mishandle RRT, and now I have to worry my order gets screwed up. Real classy PB.
Cypher-xv wrote: Great it looks like I might get the retaliation stick cause NMI told on me on FB for posting all those memes with Kevin. So I give my money to PB, let them mishandle RRT, and now I have to worry my order gets screwed up. Real classy PB.
1) Care enough to bother?
2) Have enough pull to actually cause something like that to happen?
3) Why would Palladium care enough about NMI to do something stupid like that?
● We have been promising for months that we would have Robotech® RPG Tactics™ product to sell at Gen Con. People have made travel plans, hotel reservations, bought tickets to Gen Con, etc., counting on it being available at Gen Con. We thought we’d have plenty of time to ship to backers before Gen Con, but the product is coming months later than we thought it would. If we could push back Gen Con, we would, but obviously we can’t.
I honestly had no idea that Palladium and Robotech where THAT big a deal...
Honestly, Robotech and Palladium IS the reason I'm going to GenCon. It's my first GenCon. I'm a Showdown KS backer, but I'll probably buy more form them there as well.
1) Care enough to bother?
2) Have enough pull to actually cause something like that to happen?
3) Why would Palladium care enough about NMI to do something stupid like that?
NMI is the banhammer on Palladium's forums. in other words hes the one giving palladium's forums a bad name.
Cypher-xv wrote: I get that there are fans and there are super fans, but this is overboard:
[Eric Montoya about 3 hours ago
@Rick S. if you do open a lawsuit. it'll be very easy for me to track you down. if I'm forced to do that no one will ever have to suffer another of your posts again. purge day!]
Creepy
Places like Kickstarter and Facebook are public. You could sue/file a complaint for that easily already.
Looks like "Blue Table Painting" will be doing up some of the demo pieces for Gencon. There's a couple of pictures of a recovery pod on the owner's facebook page.
Forar wrote: Looks like "Blue Table Painting" will be doing up some of the demo pieces for Gencon. There's a couple of pictures of a recovery pod on the owner's facebook page.
Lol. A bulk bog-standard work specialist for short turnaround display pieces. What a good idea.
Edit: actually, that's somewhat unfair, BTP have a very fast turnaround on basic standard work, and are fairly economical. For demo pieces they're actually pretty well suited. I just don't think they do any display level work, not that I've seen to date anyway.
So I've upgraded these with the official points and all the correct upgrades for you all to see.
I have not done the support or Elite cards YET but when I do hopefully I can share them. I'll share more as able.
Basically these are the units in the main box set. There are 7 units.
Veritech
Tomahawk
Defender
Regult
Regult Scout
Glaug
Zen Recovery Pod
Mike1975 wrote: So I've upgraded these with the official points and all the correct upgrades for you all to see.
I have not done the support or Elite cards YET but when I do hopefully I can share them. I'll share more as able.
Basically these are the units in the main box set. There are 7 units.
Veritech
Tomahawk
Defender
Regult
Regult Scout
Glaug
Zen Recovery Pod
Nice... are the Regults and the Glaug made of cardboard? Only reason I can think of for them to be so very fragile compared with the destroids...
HG is, lets put it mildly, somewhat disliked. They have been stoping any new Macross stuff from being released in the west, people haven't and will not forgive the issue with the Battletech unseen, especially not after going after the Mechwarrior (now online) trailer for having a a mech that superficially resembles the structure of a warhammer/tomahawk, they haven't completed anything new robotech related for decades now and the most reasonable assumption is, that their campaign will in the end lead to nowhere. Also they have the habbit of suing their own fans, for doing something with robotech.
hardly surprising, that their kickstarter, which looks more like a cheap moneygrab anyway, doesn't get many people supporting it.
In a way, looking at the histories of both companies, HG and Palladium *deserve* each other...
Albertorius wrote: Nice... are the Regults and the Glaug made of cardboard? Only reason I can think of for them to be so very fragile compared with the destroids...
Basically, yes.
The general faction balance seems to be the oft used "one side has a few tough units, the other has swarms of weaker units", ie: X-Wings versus TIE Fighters.
Granted, in the series we see Destroids and VT's shot down unless protected by Plot Armour, but that's the premise we're looking at in general.
HG is, lets put it mildly, somewhat disliked. They have been stoping any new Macross stuff from being released in the west, people haven't and will not forgive the issue with the Battletech unseen, especially not after going after the Mechwarrior (now online) trailer for having a a mech that superficially resembles the structure of a warhammer/tomahawk, they haven't completed anything new robotech related for decades now and the most reasonable assumption is, that their campaign will in the end lead to nowhere. Also they have the habbit of suing their own fans, for doing something with robotech.
hardly surprising, that their kickstarter, which looks more like a cheap moneygrab anyway, doesn't get many people supporting it.
In a way, looking at the histories of both companies, HG and Palladium *deserve* each other...
Unsurprisingly, the RA KS has had some pretty crappy communication. But when the Agrama thing was mentioned in the comments, whoop, they were ALL OVER IT. As a poster summarized it quite hilariously:
Lukas Ketner 5 days ago
@Tatanka
Good catch Certainly a hiccup in a the pattern of HG-to-backer communication if nothing else.
Harmony Gold on:
Q: re: Robotech Academy budget breakdown?
A: "............"
Q: re: Fans taking the financial risk?
A: "........you're an enemy."
Q: re: Fan-funding denoting HG level of commitment to Robotech Academy?
A: "................and a spy."
Q: re: Unfinished Robotech Shadow stuff?
A: ".................an Enemy Spy."
Q: re: HG CEO shady tax stuff?
A: "WHOA! HEY! Acquittal! Look for another prompt response following this one! No ties to HG! Would you like another prompt response? Help yourself! You got it!! We'll check back. Hello? acquittal!!!"
Albertorius wrote: Nice... are the Regults and the Glaug made of cardboard? Only reason I can think of for them to be so very fragile compared with the destroids...
Basically, yes.
The general faction balance seems to be the oft used "one side has a few tough units, the other has swarms of weaker units", ie: X-Wings versus TIE Fighters.
Granted, in the series we see Destroids and VT's shot down unless protected by Plot Armour, but that's the premise we're looking at in general.
I feel that X-Wings vs. TIE fighters had a better justification there, but yes, it looks like that's the way they're going. Ah well, I'll be using other systems anyways, so...
Also, in the series the Destroids usually ended up blowing up at the drop of a hat, so it feels... weird, to see them being the hardest stuff.
Keep in mind that Destroids also have a DEF of only 5 making them pretty easy to hit. So even though they take some damage their slow speed and low defense values make them fairly easy to kill. Even them 1 destroid is worth 3-4 Pods.
Mike1975 wrote: Keep in mind that Destroids also have a DEF of only 5 making them pretty easy to hit. So even though they take some damage their slow speed and low defense values make them fairly easy to kill. Even them 1 destroid is worth 3-4 Pods.
That's what feels weird to me, as them destroids usually got destroyed as fast as pods.
Of course, Destroids were meant to be piloted by players, so they needed to be beefy in order to survive extended conflicts that they'd participate in without needing to run and hide or go in for repairs/a new mech every five minutes.
The RPG stats have little basis in the anime, imo, no matter what PB might say. Destroids got wrecked on screen anytime something looked at them funny, but in the books they're several times tougher than pods (which also die if you look at them funny).
The gradation present is because of the RPG'ness, not because of the source material.
I imagine many players wanted to pilot VTs, but destroids were totally an option as well, so that's how I've extrapolated it all out. The fact that it conforms to a standard faction difference present in a wide variety of games, books and movies is just icing on the cake.
Yeah, and X-Wings that weren't piloted by Wedge or Luke got blown out of the sky just fine too.
That's plot armour for you.
Random rookie? Dies in 1 shot.
Main character? Survives getting pounded by two dozen missiles.
Or gets tagged and powers through to die in a heroic yet stupid fashion on his girlfriend's couch because someone can't be bothered waiting 5 minutes for the doctor.
Though that brings me to another point; I sincerely hope the character system has been improved, because at a glance, there are holes in the 'create your own character' aspect that you can drive MAC II's through.
Edit: also, the special characters flat out ignore the RPG character system. Abilities exist on them that aren't on the very brief list, they don't bother paying for their available mechs to pilot. This section definitely needs some significant tightening up.
Mike1975 wrote: I had a new system done up for Character Conversion a long time ago.....and yes it uses the Character stats from the RPG, PP, Level, HTH Type.
TBH, using the RPG system for... well, anything at all, seeing how absolutely unable to map the series is, feels backwards to me.
It makes sense since the name of the game is Robotech RPG Tactics... if you're going to include the RPG in the name, you should have a way to map the game back to the RPG.
Just saying. I think it's stupid and that they should be separate, but I understand why they've done it.
rigeld2 wrote: It makes sense since the name of the game is Robotech RPG Tactics... if you're going to include the RPG in the name, you should have a way to map the game back to the RPG.
Just saying. I think it's stupid and that they should be separate, but I understand why they've done it.
The present system you get X points to spend on your character depending upon level. It also includes having to purchase your mecha for your character. The points don't match up with the game points one to one either.
My system you get points for each character level, points for having a high PP like Max, Miriya, and most of the special characters, and you get modifiers depending upon what HTH you have (Martial Arts, Expert, Basic). The HTH does not have a huge influence AND your not paying points to buy a mecha. The Points for your character = in game points. So if your character is worth 12 points, when you play you can plug him into a mech for 12 points. If he's a destroid pilot in a veritech or vice versa he faces a penalty. Pretty simple and true to the RPG.
The "advancement points" and the "game points" not matching 1 to 1 is either something I missed in my read through, or has been changed since this packet, and needing to buy available mechs (at considerable expense) is what makes the characters seem utterly absurd. Rick Hunter is a 5 point pilot that has like 130 points worth of mechs available to fly, so that immediately caught me off guard.
"Converted characters are a special force card and cost a number of points equal to the number of advance points they got to spend."
If a character is a Special Force Card, and Squads can only have one Special Force card attached to them, then an RPG converted pilot cannot ride in a VT-1S (which is also a Special card) unless the RPG rules completely ignore squad construction rules in that fashion.
There's other weirdness, such as stating that since character's are protagonists, they start with a Pilot and Gunnery skill of 2... but best I can tell, most mechs base pilots have those at a 2 or higher already. If the character's "physical prowess" (dexterity) is a 16 or higher they start at 3 each, but this doesn't touch upon how that influences the Veritech, where Pilot and Gunnery change from form to form. One can extrapolate that the forms get a bonus to one or the other by comparing the baseline, but that kind of vagueness in rules is something that gets Palladium systems in trouble all the time.
Long story short, there are pre-generated characters, and there are rules for making RPG character into something easily translated to the board game for GM's to play with, but in terms of being able to make simple, cost effective characters to add to ones squads for fun, the May 2013 edition seems to be a flop.
Forar wrote: The "advancement points" and the "game points" not matching 1 to 1 is either something I missed in my read through, or has been changed since this packet, and needing to buy available mechs (at considerable expense) is what makes the characters seem utterly absurd. Rick Hunter is a 5 point pilot that has like 130 points worth of mechs available to fly, so that immediately caught me off guard.
"Converted characters are a special force card and cost a number of points equal to the number of advance points they got to spend."
If a character is a Special Force Card, and Squads can only have one Special Force card attached to them, then an RPG converted pilot cannot ride in a VT-1S (which is also a Special card) unless the RPG rules completely ignore squad construction rules in that fashion.
There's other weirdness, such as stating that since character's are protagonists, they start with a Pilot and Gunnery skill of 2... but best I can tell, most mechs base pilots have those at a 2 or higher already. If the character's "physical prowess" (dexterity) is a 16 or higher they start at 3 each, but this doesn't touch upon how that influences the Veritech, where Pilot and Gunnery change from form to form. One can extrapolate that the forms get a bonus to one or the other by comparing the baseline, but that kind of vagueness in rules is something that gets Palladium systems in trouble all the time.
Long story short, there are pre-generated characters, and there are rules for making RPG character into something easily translated to the board game for GM's to play with, but in terms of being able to make simple, cost effective characters to add to ones squads for fun, the May 2013 edition seems to be a flop.
So a few things here, Characters are not Special cards or support cards, so they do not count against your total cards when building a force. So you can choose a VF-1S and add Roy or some other character.
The Base 2 PIL and 2 GUN is before you pay points to add to their skills and get +1 to PIL or GUN. Most units have 2 Gun and 2 Pil except veritechs that things change depending upon what mode they are in. Your assuming your character is baseline with everyone else and adding depending upon his skill level. Problem is when you have to add to that skill level AND purchase a mecha.
Mike1975 wrote: So a few things here, Characters are not Special cards or support cards, so they do not count against your total cards when building a force. So you can choose a VF-1S and add Roy or some other character.
Ah, that makes sense for pre-generated characters.
However, regarding custom made characters;
Converted characters are a special force card and cost a number of points equal to the number of advance points they got to spend.
The Base 2 PIL and 2 GUN is before you pay points to add to their skills and get +1 to PIL or GUN. Most units have 2 Gun and 2 Pil except veritechs that things change depending upon what mode they are in. Your assuming your character is baseline with everyone else and adding depending upon his skill level. Problem is when you have to add to that skill level AND purchase a mecha.
That's my point. They state that players start at 2/2, when the baseline is... already 2/2 or better. Or 3/3 with a high PP, but that isn't a particularly big jump, as having one, the other or both at 3 (at least on the RDF side) isn't uncommon either.
The purchasing a mech is a huge cost, especially for 'the good gak'. Dumping 20+ points into just being able to put a name on a higher priced unit like a Super VT is going to need a good beefing up of the stats to justify it, but then it's a good 20%+ of your force's points (for a standard 300 point game) in one single figure.
My rules are different.
Of course they are, but we're talking about the official rules here, or at least the older version thereof. The version I'll be expected to play at tournaments, or in a store against a random stranger.
Now, the RPG conversion rules may not be intended for such play, which would be highly disappointing. I was looking forward to being able to make my own pilots, advance them through games at the rate of my choosing (by paying extra for them), but these just don't add up, and the way the pregens are built, they clearly ignored a pile of the rules for those, meaning that the RPG conversion rules are either not applicable in the same way to purely Tactics built gameplay, or they forgot to carry a two again.
Late edit: and according to the force organization chart they gave us last year, MAC II's can't be Command Destroids. A squad is limited to 1 Special card and both MAC II's and Command Upgrades are Special cards.
Obviously subject to change whenever we get to see the damned final final 100% finally final rule book.
Obviously subject to change whenever we get to see the damned final final 100% finally final rule book.
That's be why I always made it clear I didn't care at all what Mike's rules said. "They're basically the same!" he'd cry, except when he would declare "But my rules are different on that".
So, what's the feeling? Are the rules going to be mediocre, bad, or abysmal?
"Functional" would be nice, but I'm kind of expecting it to be a giant mess and to need to revise, streamline or outright build from scratch some stuff.
So... basically coming back full circle a decade and a half later to my Rifts experiences.
We had fun, but a bunch of that stuff was simply baffling. I came into this knowing it was a risk, but the involvement of ND and Alessio (?) or whatever that guy's name is made me hopeful it wouldn't be too bad.
Then I saw the May 2013 rules and just saw what I can only describe as "Palladiumisms" everywhere.
Forar wrote: We had fun, but a bunch of that stuff was simply baffling. I came into this knowing it was a risk, but the involvement of ND and Alessio (?) or whatever that guy's name is made me hopeful it wouldn't be too bad.
Alesso (the guy who wrote Song of Blades and Heroes?) was supposed to write the rules? k. He's also writing the rules for ADW's Doggerel (?) line, and I don't trust ADW one bit.
After Doom that Came to Atlantic City, I don't weigh the designer's name in my decision to back a project. (Theme and designer name will attract me to a project, y'know, if KS were a store.)
Many sculptors get paid on spec, so I don't weigh them either, although I don't know how ND was involved in this. Plus, their reputation with Relic Knights at the time of the project wasn't all that good.
Given how Mike's rules were May 2013 (?) and how Kevin Siembda (sp) rewrites Palladium rulebooks at the last minute without playtesting, I don't expect the final rules to look like the 2013 ones.
Anyway, I try to nail down who the project manager is on a project. I just did some research on Harmony Gold, so don't back their KS, either.
Here is what I had done, at least until I was told the Character Conversion Rules would stay as they are.
The abilities still need balancing but I have not looked at this in a while. Feel free to comment because I plan on doing an unofficial FAQ/rules additions when things hit retail. Maybe PB will adopt some of the rules for an advanced rules set with some good skirmish rules.
Oh, sorry. You actually believe that's possible.
It's disappointing, but not surprising, that the rules are as bad as they are. Thanks Kevin for fething it up. Again.
Oh, sorry. You actually believe that's possible.
It's disappointing, but not surprising, that the rules are as bad as they are. Thanks Kevin for fething it up. Again.
Actually I don't give a gak. If they do then they will be official which will be good for you all, well the ones that will play using the official rules. If they don't I will post them and use them myself regardless.
So, just got noticed my reminder to fill out the survey. I only put in for $15, but now I can add to the pledge. However looking at some of the feedback I'm wondering if it will be worth it. Whats the sweetspot on this one? Whats worth getting? I figure the game itself might be all right, but are any of the limited edition or add ons worth it. Still not sure of the miniature quality. Who has suggestions?
Might want to check with Palladium to make sure such a late update won't be an issue, but if you're willing to ignore the seething bullgak surrounding this project, the "Battle Cry" tier is the sweet spot. 97 models for $140, a good spread of figures on both sides, should provide significant variety. It also comes with 4 limited edition figures.
Considering what we're seeing stores list as pre-order prices, the add ons don't seem to be worth it. Originally it seemed like a solid idea, since we were supposed to get them 'first', long before retail, but now with Wave 2 having so many question marks around it, I'd ignore those unless you absolutely have to have them.
The exceptions to this would be the items that will only be available at conventions or through the Kickstarter; the 2 objective marker packs, the resin SDF-1, and the Battlefoam bag. If you go for the bag, you should absolutely double check with Palladium, as they've already been made, and there's been some commentary on possibly not being able to get more made, so depending on how thin a line they walked when they ordered the stock, you may be SOL on those.
Oh, right, there's one other; the VEF-1/1D pack, which at retail may only have 2 fighters, but due to a feth up on their end, in the Kickstarter it'll contain 4 fighters.
Again, I can't suggest giving these donkey caves any more money in good conscience, but if you feel you must 'get in on this', a Battle Cry (or two if you're feeling particularly well funded) is the sweet spot, and the harder to come by add ons are the only ones I'd bother looking at.
I'm in for 3 battle cry boxes and a pile of add ons, and man, in hindsight I wish I'd only gotten 1 or 2 boxes and maybe one add on. 8 Boxes across 2 friends and I, when in reality 4 probably would've done us just fine, 6 tops. Mistakes were made, and there's definitely some regret present, having so much in funding tied up in this gak.
Andrew1975 wrote: So, just got noticed my reminder to fill out the survey. I only put in for $15, but now I can add to the pledge. However looking at some of the feedback I'm wondering if it will be worth it. Whats the sweetspot on this one? Whats worth getting? I figure the game itself might be all right, but are any of the limited edition or add ons worth it. Still not sure of the miniature quality. Who has suggestions?
I'd avoid giving them another penny, because they're awful.
However, if you want the minis, and you don't want to get screwed, don't get ANYTHING that isn't in Wave One. The reason being I still think there's only a 50/50 shot of PB actually successfully shipping Wave Two.
Actually, I ran the math, and a Battle Cry should still save one money using retail prices (ie: around 1/3 off MSRP) with wave one alone. Wave two becomes pure 'profit' so to speak, should it/part of it ever be made and delivered.
The savings aren't huge, but they're still there, even with just the first wave of items.
Edit: here's the napkin math I did on the matter. It may not be 100% accurate in the end, but I think my base premise is sound.
"Core Box ($100 MSRP) 2 VT packs ($75 MSRP) 2 Battlepod packs ($75 MSRP) 1 Command Pack ($37 MSRP) 1 Spartan/Phalanx Pack ($33 MSRP) = $320 MSRP. Knock 35% off and you get $208 at retail, that backers paid $140 for. Since Miniature Market has pretty nasty S&H charges all their own, international backers aren't any further out either.
Plus Wave Two. Which yes yes, some don't believe will happen, but even if it doesn't, the backers at least break even on Wave One, even if it's not the rocking 1/4 retail we were expecting to get all told (I do think wave 2 will happen, I just think we'll be doing this again next August barring a minor miracle). You have to get into, like, a 60% or better discount before backers actively start losing money, and again, that's just on Wave One. The moment Wave Two becomes a reality (in 2016 or whatever), we're way in the black again barring, like, a 90% off sale at MM. And they'd have long abandoned the product line before that."
Long story short, as long as they actually deliver wave one and it isn't steaming poop in a box (yes, some people think it is already steaming poop in a box, those people should be looking for other people to take over their backer status), the backers aren't actually 'behind' any money even with just wave one. Wave two is where the real value kicks in, and we end up paying maybe 1/4 retail prices for over half a grand in minis (more napkin math), if not 1/5th.
Hence, getting a "battle cry" or a "showdown" isn't necessarily a bad idea, even with a solid portion of the value (40-50%, depending on how things turn out) locked up in a wave of packages we may be waiting a year or more on, and assuming one is committed to the idea of buying some (again, I'm not actively advocating giving these donkey caves more money, simply noting the most cost effective manner of buying into the project should one feel so inclined even having read dozens of pages of shenanigans here).
"Bill Briggs about 2 hours ago
The time I met Kevin at a con he was, actually, very nice. Friendly, warm, charismatic—everything you’d want from a business owner and convention guest. A little while later he “caught” a handful of us discussing the problems with the Megaversal system. We were at a private table, in the restaurant, minding our own business, discussing amongst ourselves. He came over to us and went off like a bomb: yelling and screaming about us not “getting it” or being “real gamers.” He went from nice and friendly to narcissistic and (almost) declaring himself a martyr for the gaming industry.
Needless to say, we were all rather gob smacked.
He was actually asked, by the manager of the restaurant, to leave. He went off on him about being a guest at the convention. The manager wasn’t terribly impressed.
That’s just my, personal, experience with the guy."
Sounds like most people's experience with him, even his ex-employees.
I've known quite a few people like that, who were overly positive about everything and eventually you learn you can't trust them. Either they're intentionally lying to you or they're also lying to themselves. Neither of which makes for very dependable people
Robotech Academy will be offering "exclusives" with Palladium Books! I'm sure it'll go well - a project that probably won't reach 50% of its funding goal, combined with an incompetent games company and mecha for a show nobody has seen.
Robotech Academy will be offering "exclusives" with Palladium Books! I'm sure it'll go well - a project that probably won't reach 50% of its funding goal, combined with an incompetent games company and mecha for a show nobody has seen.
What could go wrong?
For $2, you're allowed to speak ill of the project!
Robotech Academy will be offering "exclusives" with Palladium Books! I'm sure it'll go well - a project that probably won't reach 50% of its funding goal, combined with an incompetent games company and mecha for a show nobody has seen.
What could go wrong?
For $2, you're allowed to speak ill of the project!
Or you can just put in $1 and speak ill of the project. Bucking the system like a real enemy spy!
Or, in my case, just to mock them and point out the holes in the crap they're trying to make float.
If RTA doesn't get to 500k I wouldn't be surprised if they take whatever money they suckered out of people and just say ok we'll make it work. Then a year or two later HG declares the project dead because of lack of funding. Thereby Kevin Mc blaming the fans for not trying hard enough to get other suckers to donate.
Thank you so much, guys. Everyone who voted, thank you for making your opinions known. And thank you to those 78% of you who voted yes to allowing us to sell product at Gen Con. We really and truly appreciate it.
Things have been nuts around here the last week, but here are the highlights:
Sorting out BackerKit’s back end, making sure every item is properly set up in preparation for exporting the data and importing it into our shipping system.
Meeting with representatives from UPS, USPS, and Pitney Bowes, getting our shipping system updated and expanded to be able to handle the volume of all those Kickstarter rewards going out.
Buying TONS of boxes for shipping out all your goodies, starting in a couple of weeks. This was more complicated than you might think, since we haven’t even seen all of the products in person yet. Not to mention the variety of shipments we’ll have to deal with. An export of the data from BackerKit that sorts the shipments into groups of like items shows 2,456 different combinations! That’s a lot of things to consider when ordering ten thousand dollars worth of boxes.
And too much more to list. In fact, since it’s 10pm Saturday night and I’m only just now getting time to post this, I’m going to leave it there for now, and let the rest be covered by the following words from Palladium President and Publisher, Kevin Siembieda:
------------
My deep and heartfelt thank you to our Kickstarter backers for voting to let us take Robotech® RPG Tactics™ to sell at Gen Con. The overwhelming majority (78% who actually voted) voted yes. Thank you for your understanding and kindness. You and your support are very appreciated.
I have been showing around the ONE box of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ we have received from China and everyone goes wild over it. The game looks big, beefy and beautiful. We have the one game box, a couple of the expansion packs and a half dozen sprue samples of each mecha. Some of the sprue samples have been sent out to be painted, both as display pieces and for tabletop demos at Gen Con. The bulk of them have been sent out to Blue Table Painting. They are doing most of the painting and we appreciate their efforts. We’re working them like dogs, too, because we did not get the UEDF production samples until last week. Thanks guys, the paint jobs are looking great! Their comment about the sprues: “You can tell somebody put a lot of love into these models.” Yes indeed, a lot of people put a lot of love into them. We’re glad to hear that it shows in the final pieces.
I can’t express how rewarding it is that people go wild over this game and think the pieces look so good. Our China broker and factories are doing an excellent job on the final phase. Carmen Bellaire (co-author of the rules) just got to see it all the other day. He too was impressed. “Kev, I know it has been hell to get this game made, but the end product is really something. You should be really proud.” I think everyone involved can be proud of this finished product. I cannot wait until we can start shipping out product to our Kickstarter backers.
A NEW Robotech® RPG Tactics™ game piece may be made available via the Robotech® Academy Kickstarter! Yes, you are reading that correctly. There could be one (or two?) NEW Robotech® mecha game pieces for Robotech® RPG Tactics™ made available in the Robotech® Academy Kickstarter! Harmony Gold contacted Palladium Books to see if we would mind if they released one (maybe two) 1/285 scale (6 mm) NEW MECHA from the anticipated Robotech® Academy animated pilot, as game pieces for Robotech® RPG Tactics™. We gave our blessing because we thought you guys and gals would dig it. This would be an official game piece (we would do up the stats and everything). I do not know if HG is planning to do this for certain or not.
Harmony Gold may announce at Comic Con International in San Diego this weekend, if they are going to add the new piece(s) or not, and if so, which new mecha they will manufacture and offer. They’ll also make the announcement on their Kickstarter page and via other means, as well as post images online.
What is Robotech® Academy? It’s Harmony Gold USA, Inc.’s proposed new venture to expand the Robotech® universe. And they are using Kickstarter to finish the pilot with the hopes of launching it as a new Robotech animated series. It is my understanding that concept work, a script, model sheets, new mecha designs and more are already done. Now they are looking to get the production of the pilot financed, at least in part, by Kickstarter. As a licensee of Harmony Gold, I like what I’m hearing about this new series, so check out this Kickstarter and get some cool, collectible swag in the process.
First glance thoughts;
- Working to import data from the Backerkit? They wrapped that up literally 10+ months ago. Why is this only being looked at now?
- 2,456 different combinations? ... what? How many of you donkey caves ordered extra wave one stuff? I have a hard time believing that nearly half of the wave one packages will be so different; there are only 8 different products going out! Yes, some variation in numbers (2 VT boxes versus 3 VT boxes, etc), but what the hell? With wave 2 included, I could buy it.
- RTA is not looking like it'll hit its target, even with a last minute spike in funding. Even if it's looking close, trying to entice backers sight unseen with more figures feels like it has ignored a great deal of the critique lobbed at this campaign in a short sighted prayer for some kind of boost to get them over the hump.
Hell, for all we know, those two new "1/285 scale mecha" will be prototype Cyclones that'll be a whopping 7mm tall. The obvious assumption to make is that they'll be VT analogues of some kind, but this campaign and anything involved with it have long since lost the benefit of the doubt.
Forar wrote: Hell, for all we know, those two new "1/285 scale mecha" will be prototype Cyclones that'll be a whopping 7mm tall. The obvious assumption to make is that they'll be VT analogues of some kind, but this campaign and anything involved with it have long since lost the benefit of the doubt.
If they do 7mm tall cyclones, they better be like the rest of the RRT pieces and be at least 12 parts each to make sure we get that proper quality we all expect out of Palladium.
Forar, you are forgetting that "import" in this case means handwriting out all the individual backer orders onto file cards that have boxes that can be ticked off when the product is sent.
However you are right Wave 1 at least cannot be that hard to sort out (if PB think it is god help us when we get to wave 2). I would set a mail/distribution line something like this
a Boxed game
b Battlecry
c Showdown just put two battlecrys together etc
Keep a misc category for any orders that do not fit the standard pattern, just add the extra sprues.
Of course this would have been easier if PB had asked for single main boxed sets and pre packed battlecry sets at the end of production, using the information they have had for over a year now.
Hand written? I was thinking cuneiform might come into play.
I'm sure there are some variations. Some crazy folks who figured that $25 for 2 more VTs was a good idea, or some Battletech enthusiast that wanted like 4 more boxes of Destroids, but I just can't see how they'd have nearly that much variation when the average backer only pitched in enough for 1 BC and some add ons (many of which would presumably fall into wave two, things the BC didn't contain much of) or a Showdown, which as you noted, is just two BCs, no big deal.
As for being new, Ninja Division was hired on to see them through just such logistics. If that alliance has cracked or had issues, that's on them to make it right or work with someone else.
Also, out of curiosity, say I open a box of 5 space marines but there are only 4, or one of them looks like it managed to find its way through a blast furnace. How would one contact GW, and what steps would be necessary to get that rectified?
Perhaps some sort of electronic mail? Or perhaps a local retail establishment of theirs? I'm going to bet that Toronto has a GW store, unless (insert Rob Ford joke here)
We used to have one in the mall I work near, but it closed down ages ago. According to Google there's a GW store off the subway line to the north.
But don't worry, in the event you need to get in touch with Palladium, you can always... well, here, let's let one of their Forum guys spell it out.
there a re a few different means of contact on the place I linked to. A webform, their mailing address, their fax number and two business numbers. I do not know what their policy is in regards to collect calls, but one of those methods of communications should suffice.
So there's a webform helpdesk! Or you can snail mail them! Or call them up on the phone (no way that time zones or long distance charges might come into play there)! Or a fax! I mean, who doesn't regularly fax things anymore?!
Edit: don't ask why they don't just have a simple email address. I have no idea why not.
Does that include say for a Battlecry: 1 Boxed game, the separate "boxes" for all the addons that are part of Wave 1? (extra VTs, Pods, etc) Then any addons the person may have added after completion?
I know I got a Showdown, then also about $300 of addons, so my box is gonna be huge.
Does that include say for a Battlecry: 1 Boxed game, the separate "boxes" for all the addons that are part of Wave 1? (extra VTs, Pods, etc) Then any addons the person may have added after completion?
I know I got a Showdown, then also about $300 of addons, so my box is gonna be huge.
Yeah, but how many variations is that actually going to be? What add ons did you get from wave one?
A Showdown is (off the top of my head):
2 Core Boxes
4 VT expansion boxes
4 Battlepod expansion boxes
2 S/P Destroid boxes
2 Command Pod Boxes
2 Support Pod boxes
Like, I tossed a couple hundred for add ons too, but unless they include the Destroid packs from the Daedalus Attack add on, zero of them are coming in Wave One.
The point is, variations are actual different purchases. A BC is one. A SD is another. A BC and an extra Battlepod pack is another. Unless there were guys ordering like 1-200 Battlepod packs extra, I just don't see it.
Not to mention that the add ons were flat out wasted money if you were getting more than 4 things that were found in a BC. At that point it was just throwing away money to not upgrade to another box (at the time, at least). For example: $100 for 8 VTs, or $130-140 for 9VTs and 70 other models.
Out of morbid curiosity, what makes you think they're smart enough to filter out only Wave 1 items? Or, if they're smart enough, why would they be honest enough to admit it's less complex than it really is when they can harp on a mostly-true statement to explain why the shipping is taking too long?
I might just be overly cynical at this point though, and I'm not even waiting on anything!
It's mostly a mix of tongue in cheek mockery, bitterly dry sarcasm and wistful thoughts at how naive we all were thinking they'd only be half a year late on delivery. Approaching a year late on half delivery? I don't recall many that thought PB'd look at Ogre's hold ups and say "man, we can top that easily".
Just a snippet for those not in the know. Pitney Bowes is the company ebay is using for the Global Shipping program.
This company is 1) hammer handed and will break items. 2) gouge on shipping prices. 3) charge "import fees" on everything even if the value or goods make it exempt from said fees.
I get the feeling that PB hasn't set up their plans for the international backers. I don't believe there thinking that far ahead. It'll be a miracle if wave two shows up before GC 2015.
Cypher-xv wrote: I get the feeling that PB hasn't set up their plans for the international backers. I don't believe there thinking that far ahead. It'll be a miracle if wave two shows up before GC 2015.
Actually, I'm full on expecting it, if not later. And then we get to do the whole she-bang again. Can't go to GenCon without the a fresh release. A year with no added content is problematic. And yet, we were promised all of Wave 2 before it goes "retail".
I know Mike and some others have mentioned John Candice's report on the status of Wave 2. But personally, I'd like a lot more clarification of what's "done" before I'd get too anticipatory. And I don't mean what's been categorized as done, I mean what is the definition of done? Because to me, "done" means test sprues have been approved, and the mold's sitting there, ready to be put into action. And it could mean that. Or it could mean the molds haven't been made yet, or the PPPrototype has been made, or the digital sculpt has been finalized pending PPP. All of those count as "done". And given how long some of Wave 1 took to go from final digital sculpt, to approved test sprues, and just the quantities of sprues needed for Wave 2, I don't see it being a quick procedure at all.
And then there's also the required resin/metal components for the VEF/1D boxes. Depending on how many of those got picked up (I ordered 4 boxes), that may add to the end result, as I'm not sure if they're going to be fully independent figures, or if they're going to be add-ons to the 1D plastics. There was some confusing information there I think.
As for the international backers, if I haven't offloaded my stuff before hand (still hoping, but the timeframe is shrinking), I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they calculate my shipping. I have pointed out to them (when I was fishing for a straight refund) that it's going to be expensive, but I'm not sure they believed me. On a $1540 order, I think shipping over the two waves will be in the 35% range. Could be as high as 50%, if it's heavier than I estimated (I counted the extra Wave 1 sprues over First Contact at 1/2 the box size/weight, and then again for Wave 2). And that doesn't count the very real possibility I'll need replacement parts, constituting a third/fourth shipment. As for the EU VAT avoidance thing, if it hasn't been sorted out by now (and you'd assume PB would have mentioned it, but it IS Palladium), it's also pushing against the clock. That is, unless they just decide it's another promise to break, and EU backers get shafted.
Here's a link to a thread asking for answers on wave two. I don't expect to see anything happen but to see it locked because NMI just can. He's already deleted some of my posts to give the false impression that everything is unicorns and rainbows. Sheesh, Rolls eyes
Here's NMI's response to the international backer situation. Take it for what it's worth.
{\Actually, according to the past murmurs, they have been meeting with reps from the various shipping companies - Fed Ex, UPS, USPS, Pittney Bowes, etc... updating/upgrading their shipping systems, etc..
I assume what international services they will be using will be depend also on where you are, what country they will be delivering to, etc... So if you could provide me that, I can then go and ask Kevin directly\}
I mentioned last week that we had ordered boxes for shipping the soon-to-arrive Robotech® RPG Tactics™ products to you guys, and those boxes arrived on Tuesday. And well... just look at them. (That's Alex, btw, and he's like 5'8".)
It certainly makes an impression, we think, about the scope of this whole thing, when just the flattened boxes to ship the goods in take up a whole semi-truck trailer themselves. And by the way, we expect to go through all of these just shipping Wave One.
A Few Questions Answered
Some of these have come up before, but folks are still asking, so...
What is our replacement part policy?
Like we would do with any or our products, if you get an item with a defective or missing part, just let us know (by phone at 734-721-2903 is quickest, but you can also email us at kickstarter@palladiumbooks.com, or just about any other method of contacting us will work), and we’ll send you a replacement part. We plan to put some images of each sprue on our website with the parts numbered to make it easier to communicate which part is missing or defective.
Shipping to the EU and VAT
Like we said way back during the Kickstarter funding period, we have made arrangements with a company who have a warehouse in the UK. We’re going to pack up all shipments going to Europe, palletize them, and ship them to their UK warehouse. They will then ship the individual packages to the European backers from there. We have been assured this will help the end recipient to avoid VAT and perhaps other Customs fees.
For other international customers, we’ll do what we can to ease the pain of taxes, duties and Customs fees. For one thing, we’ll be shipping via the U.S. Postal Service. We've had customers get surprised with high fees when we've used other carriers to ship internationally in the past, so we always use USPS to ship internationally.
What order will we be shipping in?
When we export backer data from the BackerKit system, it includes a unique ID number based on when that backer’s account was created in BackerKit. That order seems to coincide roughly with the order of when pledges were placed, perhaps affected by any delays in Amazon’s attempts to process the credit cards. Whatever the factors involved, all things being equal, orders will be processed roughly in order of the ID number.
However, in many cases, all things will not be equal. In order to make our shipping more efficient and avoid errors as much as possible, outgoing packages will be grouped into like orders as best we can. That means, for example, all packages containing just the main boxed game will be packed at the same time. Once those are done, we may do a group of all the packages with just the main box and a Battle Foam Bag, etc. Most of these groups will be small enough that the order we pack them in won’t matter much, because they’ll probably all go out on the same day.
Primarily, the order in which most packages will be shipped will depend on which products we have in stock, vs which ones we’re waiting for the next container to resupply us with.
One thing I can say for certain is that, despite what some have feared or suggested, we absolutely WILL NOT take into consideration a backer’s vote on the Gen Con poll, or critical comments, or anything of the sort. Anyone who thinks we’d do that just doesn't know us at all.
Important points they can't or didn't bother to address:
1) did the ship with Container 1 arrive at port this week as was scheduled?
2) is Container 2 en route yet? Given the 2 week journey across the ocean and what will likely be 1-2 weeks through unloading, customs and transit to the warehouse, even with a generous 3 week trip, they really need to have that thing on the water if they want it there the week they return from Gencon.
Plus, y'know, a dozen other things that remain unknown/outstanding, not to mention wave two, but while 1 remains such an unknown, I guess that's likely to be par for the course.
Looks like Robotech Academy has been canceled. I'm not surprised that they didn't make their 500000 dollar goal given the complete lack of info. I'm kind of surprised they got as high as 190000. I'm sure this isn't the last we've heard about it though.
So in the "other business" file, is anyone going to GenCon? I'm not looking to protest or anything, but it might be nice to meet some folks from the forum for an adult beverage or a game while I'm there for the weekend. Shoot me a PM or reply on here if you want.
Forar wrote: Important points they can't or didn't bother to address:
1) did the ship with Container 1 arrive at port this week as was scheduled?
2) is Container 2 en route yet? Given the 2 week journey across the ocean and what will likely be 1-2 weeks through unloading, customs and transit to the warehouse, even with a generous 3 week trip, they really need to have that thing on the water if they want it there the week they return from Gencon.
Plus, y'know, a dozen other things that remain unknown/outstanding, not to mention wave two, but while 1 remains such an unknown, I guess that's likely to be par for the course.
What, you don't think the next round will be "We really need you to vote to allow us to sell to distributors first! It's for the good of the game and things and stuff!"
You have got to be joking! With such an overwhelming "Yes" vote for this year, what makes you think that they will be able to see the need to go through the whole process again next year?
All they'll do is sell whatever they want/have available and when anyone complains, they'll just say "Well, we did poll the supporters who, with the exception of a few extremely negative individuals, gave us explicit permission to sell (whatever we have) at this event (in perpetuity)."
We are at one week until Gen Con and do we have any updates on the magic ship full of dreams?
One week to get through customs, drive across the US and be sorted and packed by Palladium's volunteers... and supposedly sending stuff to backers before making the trip to Gen Con.
Nah. If they do an update this week, it'll be interesting to see what it says.
Their estimate was to have the boxes in hand by the 8th, so I have a sneaking suspicion they'll wait until the 9th to say anything, if they speak up at all. Considering the clusterfeth that occurred, I could also see them just hiding under the veil of "omg Gencon is soooo busy!" and hoping everyone kind of forgets it happened.
It'll be interesting to see if it's actually at Gencon. I wonder if they'll actually work weekends to see it packed. For normal companies I would say yes, but for PB? Who knows
Why go there when we have a perfectly serviceable thread here for just such a purpose, and without having to deal with unreasonable moderators and 'fan friends'?
Forar wrote: Why go there when we have a perfectly serviceable thread here for just such a purpose, and without having to deal with unreasonable moderators and 'fan friends'?
Seriously, that forum is a cesspool.
I hate it when you hold back like that, you could hurt yourself!
I held back many times of subscribing to that forum, the moderating has been demonstrated to be very... aggressive.
Still tempting to see how much of my posted content would be messed with until I would be banned altogether.
Will reiterate (regurgitate?) again: lied to on completion dates / readiness to ship in a couple months of kickstarter completion, tempted us with further models slated to wave 2 whenever that is, switched the shipping costs to increase as core bundles were added to, multiple sliding of dates, legitimate understandable difficulties causing the delays not divulged, I NEVER want to hear / read "mouth watering" in regard to models EVER again, rambling unicorn and rainbows missives that mean nothing disguised as "updates", selling to new customers to get more cash, er, correction: "exposure" since they already have our money, still treating the tabletop game like one of their RPG's rather than the "expert" Ninja's handling it (where are they now?). Rant, rant, rant, nothing really changed, same operation method Palladium always had, my mistake for thinking having others involved it will all be different. After this Palladium will not see a single dollar from me EVER. No rage, just plain old fool me once...
Forar wrote: Why go there when we have a perfectly serviceable thread here for just such a purpose, and without having to deal with unreasonable moderators and 'fan friends'?
Seriously, that forum is a cesspool.
Amen to that. I recently left a fb group because it was devolving into personal attacks for speaking out against PB. I frequent forums/groups for fun & I simply have no desire to continue going to one where logical valid complaints about the project are responded to with such things as bullying & then high fiving each other for being bullies. And guess who got bitched at/banned? Usually the people who fought back, thus the bullies praised the moderator for using the banhammer. *sigh* To be honest it's those very people & the rude response I got when I called PB that made me decide to sell off this game & never look back because I simply don't want to play a game that has that kind of community. I'll take X-Wing any day.
Back on T though, I noticed they have a single copy of the game they're supposedly showing "to everyone" & naturally "everyone" "just loves it" but unless I missed something we haven't been shown the game in all its glory yet just sprue shots. Why not do an unboxing video? Or If it's sealed stop feeding us BS about everyone loving it when what you really mean is everyone loved the friggin box.
Forar wrote: Why go there when we have a perfectly serviceable thread here for just such a purpose, and without having to deal with unreasonable moderators and 'fan friends'?
(Makes note to self - Getting soft. Amp up Unreasonable Moderation Efforts!)
All kidding aside, I'm surprised that they haven't announced success and/or failure in terms of their Gencon plans!
Basically, unless their container is the first one off the boat to be custom(ized?) they're not going to make it.
Oh, and stop being mean over release dates. It makes them sad. So they're going to stop giving them. Because they're children.
I just got done reading this bit update, which as an aside should have been told to the backers not on their website or the fact that the shipment was actually on a boat. Gods, this update actually made me laugh about this whole thing.
I mean really, you can't catch a break? I believe we can call that karma for most of this lack of communication.
Edit correction. It looks like they changed some of their wording on the KS update. How awesome of them to act one way on their website and another on someone else's website.
Considering how we are jumped on and ridiculed every time a projected release date is offered and then pushed back, or we face a delay, we are not committing to any specific release date for Wave Two until we have a fairly solid and realistic one from the manufacturing end of things.
I unsubscribed from this thread weeks ago when the vote started as I simply didn't want to be disappointed and frustrated so frequently but this latest update got me to want to post again. This is literally the first time a Robotech update has brought a smile to my face since May 20, 2013. Palladium, you tried to screw over the people who MOST believed in you and the project... and Locker Room of the Universe's response is to towel snap you in the jimmy! This is called karma and you most definitely deserve this for all the crap you've tried to and actually succeeded in pulling over the past year.
This is the best update all year, time the universe dealt some justice to those greedy, lying twits. After all the crap they've been putting the backers through I'm glad that they won't have any stock in time for Gen Con.
I guess it is a new sense of openness with the government or possibly due to that Customs and Border Patrol TV show on the Discovery channel but I've actually found security camera footage of the container and the reason it was flagged for inspection. It appears there were several illegal immigrants on board being smuggled into the US.
Spoiler:
It appears some Zentraedi infantry didn't want to wait until the nebulous wave 2 date to be shipped over and decided to hitch a ride with the core boxes. When asked why they broke the law, they said "We just came over for a better life... selling Minmei dolls from a street cart!"
warboss wrote: I guess it is a new sense of openness with the government or possibly due to that Customs and Border Patrol TV show on the Discovery channel but I've actually found security camera footage of the container and the reason it was flagged for inspection. It appears there were several illegal immigrants on board being smuggled into the US.
Spoiler:
It appears some Zentraedi infantry didn't want to wait until the nebulous wave 2 date to be shipped over and decided to hitch a ride with the core boxes. When asked why they broke the law, they said "We just came over for a better life... selling Minmei dolls from a street cart!"
I swore off following this cluster feth a while ago, but then curiosity got the better of me and I checked in here...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Seriously, I'm sitting at my desk at work laughing. A couple of people have walked past me and asked me what I was reading, and unable to explain it to them I was looked at like I was insane. That's okay though, as Palladium hath been smoted for their underhanded ways.
"Our customs broker tells us that in his experience, this usually takes 7-14 business days."
I've had a few KS delayed by customs, and it certainly *felt* longer. The problem is that customs doesn't FIFO its inspections. Some inspections, such as medical instruments, are a higher priority. Given that these Robotech figures are "toys and games", they may be sitting in customs for a good while. Reaper Bones were in customs, and Reaper Bryan said, "Previous shipments from China in the 6 years we have been working with them have had 2 day turnarounds and turnarounds of longer than 4 weeks."
While I don't hold the customs delay itself against Palladium, this is more classic n00b project management for plastic miniatures projects. Cthulhu Wars and Arkham Horror dice are first-time projects and had them as well. You can also tell inexperience with these projects when the project manager passes on to backers the production and delivery dates the plastics manufacturer gives him...!
This is for Kendachi, Morgan, and anyone else who has even glanced within the cesspool.
Spoiler:
For context on the second one, NMI's facebook page has some 'pyramid scheme' style bull about raking in HUGE PAYDAYS and gak like that. I got swept up in the moment and couldn't help embracing it.
Edit: he's also the kind of dude that 'likes' his own posts on Facebook. I think that says more about him than anything else
Any chance someone could copy paste the text over?
Work blocked and would like to revel in the karma/have a good chuckle..........
Here you go:
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave One
We can’t seem to catch a break with Robotech® RPG Tactics™.
The ship carrying the first container of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ arrived right on time. Under normal circumstances, Palladium would have received it this Friday and begun shipping it out. One problem: US Customs. Though we were told there is only a 15% chance of our container being tagged by Customs for random inspection, as Fate would have it, we have been tagged. It usually takes Customs 7-14 business days to get to a container, inspect it and clear it.
We were devastated by the news. That means it is extremely unlikely that we will have the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ products in time for Gen Con. It also means we cannot start shipping until the darn thing clears Customs and that could be 2-3 weeks from now (you have to factor in shipping time from Los Angeles to Westland, Michigan on top of the two weeks Customs could hold the container). I was out of the office when the news came. When I got back, Wayne and Jeff looked sad and dejected when they gave me the news. We were all crushed. We went through so much effort to get the container to the USA as fast as possible to start shipping to our backers and to have it in time for Gen Con Indy. Now this.
We need a small miracle to have it in time for Gen Con Indy. That miracle being the container is one of the first to be inspected, cleared and released by Monday or Tuesday of next week. Not likely. Our Customs broker has provided all the necessary paperwork, pled our case, and we have made arrangements for expedited shipping.
If the miracle does happen, Jeff Burke and Matthew Clements are great guys, so they are willing to wait back home and miss the first two days of Gen Con to accept delivery while the rest of the Gen Con team are in Indiana. Jeff and Matt will then truck a few hundred boxes to Gen Con so we can have some for Saturday and Sunday. We have even reserved a rental truck just in case that miracle happens. HOWEVER, that is NOT likely to happen. Sorry. I meant it when I said we would need a small miracle. According to our broker, a fast turnaround would put the container arriving a day or two AFTER Gen Con. A slow turnaround, would put it arriving sometime between August 20 and August 29. Sucks, I know.
We are trying to make the best of the situation. It’s only another two weeks or so delay (arrrgh) and the game looks fantastic. We had China express mail us a couple more box games for display at Gen Con, plus there will be more than 100 painted and unpainted game pieces on display, and demos running all weekend. We think once gamers see this game it will blow out of stores fast. To guarantee people get the product they want, we will take pre-order sales for Wave One retail items (NOT Kickstarter exclusive game pieces) at Gen Con. Of course, you can order from the Palladium online store, too. All pre-orders, whether placed at Gen Con or on the Palladium online store, will be shipped immediately after the Kickstarter backers, and are likely to arrive shortly before the product begins to hit store shelves. Note: In the USA, most Wave One items will be shipped via UPS.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave One on Display at Gen Con
Like I said, we will have more than 100 painted Robotech® RPG Tactics™ game pieces on display and in the demos. We will be running demos non-stop throughout the convention weekend. You will also be able to see the boxed game, rule book, four expansion packs, ask questions and place pre-orders.
Robotech® RPG titles, new releases, and all of Palladium’s other game products, plus select speciality items, collectibles, convention specials, original artwork, art prints, writers, artists and staff will be available for your enjoyment. Please come on over to visit and get autographs. And as I said in past Updates, we look forward to shaking the hands of some of our many Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Kickstarter backers and thanking them in person. So come on down.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave Two
Considering how we are jumped on and ridiculed every time a projected release date is offered and then pushed back, or we face a delay, we are not committing to any specific release date for Wave Two until we have a fairly solid and realistic one from the manufacturing end of things.
That said, Wayne and Jeff had a conference call with our development partners, Ninja Division, to discuss Wave Two just Tuesday. We have, of course, never stopped making plans for the release of Wave Two items, as well as discussing ideas for future releases of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ products. The possibilities for the future of this game line are nothing short of fantastic and exciting as all get out.
Right now, the manufacturer and Palladium Books are very much focused on finishing the manufacturing of Wave One products and getting them shipped to the USA. Then we will be focused on the massive shipping operation to get product shipped to our 5,000+ Kickstarter backers (we estimate that will be something like 7,000-10,000 packages!) and then to our distributors.
I’m dying for the Monster, myself (it is gorgeous and one of my all-time favorite mecha). And the Zentraedi foot soldiers. And the YF-4. And the Jotun, and . . . well, everything! It’s all coming.
So they are sending out 7-10K packages to 5K+ backers? That has to include the fact that they are shipping in two waves now, right? ..... right? Guys, please stop laughing at me!
God, the shipping costs alone could crucify them which makes me think I ought to hold on to my pledge. All the special characters, plus the resin SDF-1 and I paid a grand total of $8 shipping TO THE UK! Before the campaign finished, I asked if I needed to add on the shipping for each extra that I wanted, to be told "No, you just pay shipping on your base pledge" - which was "A New Dawn" for the Rick Hunter model. To which I added Khyron, Mirya, and the other special VT, and the resin SDF-1. That's a lot of stuff shipped internationally for $8.
Especially if they come back in 6 months and let us know they are splitting wave 2 into resin items in the new wave 2, and plastics will be in wave 3 (or probably vice versa, they won't be able to sell the resin stuff afterward, so getting the other plastics into production sooner means more income for them. I still don't understand why they couldn't have had the resin stuff being produced at the same time as the plastics.
Oh, wait, that's right. They were working 36 hours a day as it was. Having to approve sculpts on the resin stuff as well would have meant working 48 hours a day. Or having 6 whole people on the job, not just 5 and Kevin.
You mean people are making fun of them for constantly missing release dates? Say it ain't so -_- So instead of missing release dates, we'll have no release dates. That'll make people feel a lot more confident this isn't vaporware.
It's good that they're learning lessons here, it's a shame they're not paying close enough attention.
The lesson here is not 'omg we give dates and then people are mean to us so we'll stop giving dates!' (though that probably isn't a terrible idea, working within their limitations)
It's that they should be aiming for more accurate dates (and if they need to push it back 4 times across 9 months, that clearly wasn't a very accurate date) AND to actually explain what is going on behind the scenes.
When they tell us that everything is rainbows and sunshine for months on end, I do not want to hear 'omg you guyz this gak is haaaaard!'
But if you spend those months saying "hey, progress is being made, X is done, Y is progressing nicely (see picture here), Z needs a ton of work (see picture here with areas circled showing off sections that are not up to par), the factory is tweaking the mill this week, etc, etc" I think people would be a lot more charitable.
It's not the delays that are killing them here. It's the blind "golly gee shucks guys, everything's just so swell!" optimism that is apparently only reigned in by the harsh fist of reality.
And me.
I am personally responsible for its failings, or so some of the donkey caves out there seem to believe.
I am personally responsible for its failings, or so some of the donkey caves out there seem to believe.
BOW BEFORE ME, LEST YOU KNOW MY WRATH!
Been lurking the thread for months and glad you have accepted responsibility for me not getting my toys! :p
Joking aside, it's annoying as hell they are not even going to attempt to establish any kind of release date for the second wave. Do they really think that people (bar Kevin and his BFF's) are going to be happy just waiting for a product that will turn up sometime randomly in the future?
I fully agree with a lot of what you saying Forar, if they had been up front and just showed progress rather than ramping expectations up of when we would get i'd have a lot more time for them. Now i just chuckle to myself when they promise anything with a "oh Palladium...when will you learn...."
Oh, why did I even bother to lay eyes on their latest update... ah yes, my compatriots of pain saw amusement and irritation there...
We can’t seem to catch a break with Robotech® RPG Tactics™.
When poor planning meets boundless optimism = missed opportunity.
Though we were told there is only a 15% chance of our container being tagged by Customs for random inspection, as Fate would have it, we have been tagged.
You roll dice on occasion right? Ever say "Anything but a one!"? Fate / Murphy lives for those moments, 15% chance might as well been 85%. The real thing to point to is to have managed the timeline to ensure it did not run all to the last minute when these "expected" hiccups occur.
We went through so much effort to get the container to the USA as fast as possible to start shipping to our backers and to have it in time for Gen Con Indy. Now this.
Nice try at spin by listing backers first then Gen Con but there was only one item with a hard due date. Want to bet there will still be some delays at getting backer kits out? (sorry, negativity creeping in again)
We think once gamers see this game it will blow out of stores fast. To guarantee people get the product they want, we will take pre-order sales for Wave One retail items (NOT Kickstarter exclusive game pieces) at Gen Con. Of course, you can order from the Palladium online store, too. All pre-orders, whether placed at Gen Con or on the Palladium online store, will be shipped immediately after the Kickstarter backers, and are likely to arrive shortly before the product begins to hit store shelves.
They never miss an opportunity to try to get that money, gotta admire their tenacity. We would have no real means of knowing the order they ship; anyone willing to order at Gen Con who is a backer and see what arrives at your doorstep first? Then again, Palladium would then have their money up front and there would be no hurry...
Robotech® RPG titles, new releases, and all of Palladium’s other game products, plus select speciality items, collectibles, convention specials, original artwork, art prints, writers, artists and staff will be available for your enjoyment. Please come on over to visit and get autographs.
Any Robotech miniature convention items? No detail, may have learned from the last debacle but I doubt they have anything good other than what they may have had air-freighted to them from China.
Considering how we are jumped on and ridiculed every time a projected release date is offered and then pushed back, or we face a delay, we are not committing to any specific release date for Wave Two until we have a fairly solid and realistic one from the manufacturing end of things.
I really think the unforgivable delivery dates given were the ones they listed when soliciting backer money. Anything after that was expected standard Palladium scheduling. If they only wait for ensured manufacturing results we will hear nothing until the week after the product arrived.
That said, Wayne and Jeff had a conference call with our development partners, Ninja Division, to discuss Wave Two just Tuesday. We have, of course, never stopped making plans for the release of Wave Two items, as well as discussing ideas for future releases of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ products.
Making plans??? Should be a continuation of what was already happening, no planning needed, just continue with the process of getting the core set out. Nice, not a word on any stage of "development".
The possibilities for the future of this game line are nothing short of fantastic and exciting as all get out.
Hope they do not plan a kickstarter for the next saga of Robotech, the notes from this one would scare away anyone... the future is not looking that bright.
I’m dying for the Monster, myself (it is gorgeous and one of my all-time favorite mecha). And the Zentraedi foot soldiers. And the YF-4. And the Jotun, and . . . well, everything! It’s all coming
Thank goodness no comment on "mouth watering".
Palladium Fantasy RPG® “Paper Miniatures” is an all new, digital product line created by artist and writer “Madman” Mike Leonard. They are designed as full color paper game pieces that you print on a card stock, cut out and slide into a paper stand (all part of the pack you purchase). A FREE Sample and the first two sets of Palladium Fantasy RPG® Paper Miniatures are available NOW on DriveThruRPG.
Why do I find this hilarious and odd all at once? It just... seems... wrong.
Funny, this was my first and only Kickstarter I paid into.
Not a good feeling.
I had gone from indifference to contempt for Palladium.
If the shipment was that close to failure they could have avoided a lot of pain on that "vote" fiasco by not doing it.
It just shows how minute by minute they run in not weighing the risk to reward and probability of dates not being made.
REALLY looking forward to early 2016 when I am done with them after Wave 2 ships.
How many bets Palladium will have tried to bring this stuff in as the very generic 'toys' not realising that all the small parts etc mean that it won't pass the necessary safety inspections
so they'll have a substantial delay while the find exactly what
sort of model kit classification they should have put on the paperwork
(I've seen at least one project delayed this way, and they'd used the right paperwork but just had a very 'toylike' box that meant customs thought the might be selling the stuff at toys)
Forar wrote: This is for Kendachi, Morgan, and anyone else who has even glanced within the cesspool.
Spoiler:
For context on the second one, NMI's facebook page has some 'pyramid scheme' style bull about raking in HUGE PAYDAYS and gak like that. I got swept up in the moment and couldn't help embracing it.
Edit: he's also the kind of dude that 'likes' his own posts on Facebook. I think that says more about him than anything else
gorgon wrote: That missive on the delay is classic Palladium. Starts with self-pity, moves into whiny accusations, and then resumes promising the moon and stars.
I really hope you guys get your stuff.
If it happens, it happens. I've already written off that money.
All I can say is that I'm glad that happened to them.
As I so pointedly said in their "vote yes/no here" update, failure for-profit companies should happen when they are poorly run.
I love robotech, maybe not as much as some, but more than others, and wanted some awesome miniatures and game to play. However, just because I want something doesn't mean that I won't change my mind based upon how a business is run.
I was also extremely insulted by their "your no response means you are complacently voting yes". That's what really took the cheese for me. I would have been ok if they just said "we are optimistically hoping to get everything in time to take to gen-con and will sell some there as we think it's a sound business move". But when you tell me how my apathy to the situation means I am for/against something...bulllllllcrap.
Hindsight is a punk, and they should have put realistic time frames in place with the gencon thing and not even voted. Now they have 25% no of the total votes, and who knows how many of those were cheesed off like myself simply BECAUSE of the vote.
PallyDrone wrote: Maybe somebody should start a vote on if Kevin is a totally incompetent, delusional, liar and BS-artist??
Anybody who doesn't vote is automatically assumed to be a yes vote.
I think being a micromanager, having some BS skills, working at your own pace, etc. might be okay or even helpful if you're a guy starting a gaming company out of his garage. But you have to evolve as your company grows.
Korias1004 wrote: However, just because I want something doesn't mean that I won't change my mind based upon how a business is run.
If this isn't your signature, it should be!
I think Cthulhu Wars did a good job in estimating timeframes, but KS projects need to better communicate what issues can delay a project, and which ones are and aren't in their control. Pretty much all plastic miniatures are made in China, meaning that customs, shipping, etc. are issues that are well-known in the industry. Thus, there's no reason a KS can't educate its backers the process and timeline in creating the product. However, even Reaper miniatures isn't saying anything more than "production as scheduled".
In a poorly run project, problems which can happen in any project become magnified and make a bad project worse. Just one more straw on the camel's back.
PallyDrone wrote: Maybe somebody should start a vote on if Kevin is a totally incompetent, delusional, liar and BS-artist??
Anybody who doesn't vote is automatically assumed to be a yes vote.
I think being a micromanager, having some BS skills, working at your own pace, etc. might be okay or even helpful if you're a guy starting a gaming company out of his garage. But you have to evolve as your company grows.
Since narcissists are such expert con artists, how do you spot them? By not judging by appearances. Or reputation.
A specific behavior, such as being haughty, inconsiderate, or ignoring someone, can occur in widely varying contexts. So, it can be done for many reasons, not just narcissistic reasons. Nonetheless, there are few behaviors so unique to persons suffering from NPD that they should serve as red flags.
Here are eight red flags:
puts on a conspicuous display of goodness and kindness
damages the images of most others
has a history of past upheavals
is hated for mysterious reasons by people close to them
exhibits unnatural and perplexing behavior -- backwards reactions to things
is a control freak, trampling privacy/boundaries
is extremely self-absorbed
has a hostile reaction to attention and credit given others
I would add not taking accountability for when things go wrong and an amazing lack of empathy (which we would have no reason to see).
So when/if we get our wave one stuff everyone post "Yayyyy!! Go Ninja Division! Great work!" everywhere!
We can’t seem to catch a break with Robotech® RPG Tactics™.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave One on Display at Gen Con
[...] writers, artists and staff will be available for your enjoyment. Please come on over to visit and get autographs. And as I said in past Updates, we look forward to shaking the hands of some of our many Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Kickstarter backers and thanking them in person. So come on down.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave Two
Considering how we are jumped on and ridiculed every time a projected release date is offered and then pushed back, or we face a delay, we are not committing to any specific release date for Wave Two until we have a fairly solid and realistic one from the manufacturing end of things.
...er, I think my head just exploded after trying to comprehend the utterly clueless mindset that would lead the company to still want to do the meet and greet .....
Duh... they have collectible mugs they just created for sale to go along with their themed pencils! And a book that was due out half a decade ago that they just finished!
p.s. I'm not joking... that is their exciting new Gencon product lineup.
I doubt it. Most people who make youtube videos during a con are actually excited fanboys so the folks who are disgruntled won't waste their time when they could be having fun.
So how many members of the "NMI banned me" fanclub do we have now here? I know I was the inaugural one since Jorel isn't here but he's a bit of a stockholm syndrome battered wife forumite so I'm not sure how to regard him.
warboss wrote: I doubt it. Most people who make youtube videos during a con are actually excited fanboys so the folks who are disgruntled won't waste their time when they could be having fun.
There's that, and also not wanting to be ejected by security before you've seen and done everything you want to see and do, and no matter how much of a douchecanoe a vendor is, if you're having a throw down verbal with one you're the person security is going to escort to the door.
I think a few photobomb pics of Kev and the crew with a guy in a Guy Fawkes mask and a shirt that says karma is a bitch would work. Of course that is a two man job as you need the undercover backer to make them pose for the legit photo while the masked photo bomber springs into action.
warboss wrote: I think a few photobomb pics of Kev and the crew with a guy in a Guy Fawkes mask and a shirt that says karma is a bitch would work. Of course that is a two man job as you need the undercover backer to make them pose for the legit photo while the masked photo bomber springs into action.
I wanted to show up a a local con he was at with the previous years catalog which listed like 15 books slated for release, none of which were produced and ask him for this book...and then the next and the next, all the way down the line and see his reaction.
I also had the previous years catalog with 15+ other books that were promised. I think out the like 30 books listed in both 4 ever saw the light of day. Most are disappeared.
Palladium usually announces 12 - 24 (yes 24) books a year and puts out one or two...usually the one or two are years late, so not sure those even count.
You should have done it. Palladium's Kevin seems to pathologically be completely unable to realize his own shortcomings despite overwhelming evidence. He *NEEDS* others to point them out clearly using incontrovertable proof so that it cannot be handwaved away as "mean" or "tiny minority". A simple youtube video where you politely go through 2013's catalog and ask which ones came out, you know, in 2013 would do the trick.
You have been banned from this board until Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:47 pm.
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Seems I hit a nerve. ;-)
You and me both Forar, but I got a 4 month ban (my first warnings and ban on the site for asking NMI if the truth hurt.
I had posted Kevin had lied to us backers, to which there is more then enough evidence of that, and then NMI warned me and said I was a liar in the warning, so I pmed him back asking what truth hurt? and next thing I know he bans me for 4 months (ending Dec. 7th., yeah the date is ironic) and my IP is banned too.
warboss wrote: So how many members of the "NMI banned me" fanclub do we have now here? I know I was the inaugural one since Jorel isn't here but he's a bit of a stockholm syndrome battered wife forumite so I'm not sure how to regard him.
You have been banned from this board until Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:47 pm.
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Reason given for ban: A 3rd warning has been issued on your account. You temporary ban shall be for 1 month.
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Seems I hit a nerve. ;-)
Funny I just got the same message. Guess we'll be back on the same day. NMI must have copy an pasted our bans.lol Just remember guys NMI said recently (can't remember which thread it was) what is allowed and what is taken out comes from PB. So I guess we all hit a nerve with Semenbieda that he got his lacky to ban us to trick new customers into thinking its a perfect place. I hope the game succeeds just so all the other 40k players bombard the PB forums with criticism and drama.
I'm sure it will in no way be awkward for new customers to find a ghost town of a sub forum, a hostile group of people who cringe at the very mention of RRT anywhere but the designated sub forum, a bunch of locked topics and the mention of people being banned en masse.
Any mention of people being banned will result in locked threads and further banning by the Archangel NMI for trolling and/or heresy against the Siembessiah. Eventually only the worthy will be left and the forums will be in perfect harmony with no disagreement between the 4 people left.
Eh, whatever. I've already resigned myself to eventually getting wave 2 whenever they get around to doing it and only ever buying a single pack of infantry for completeness. In the end, I'm just glad that we finally have good news about the kickstarter in that Palladium will be forced to keep their promise despite their best efforts to the contrary.
You seem to forget that also mentioned in the weekly update that PB areoffline a for thiose crucial days before Gencon, so they can upgrade their software and perplexingly their shipping processes. Result no update on their site or to the KS before the Con.
I am too suspicious I suppose but what are the odds of them express shipping in a few hundred copies and after Gencon starts coming to the boards explaining they made a corporate decision to honour their GC pledge, but sadly no systems meant they could not let the backers know of this change of heart
My bad Forar I'm banned till the 4th.lol Haven't brought it up on the ks cause I get the feeling he gets off on it since it gives him some control in his life. I heard in real life his wife wants him gone. Can't say for sure, just hearsay. I say this because it would explain his attitude. I heard when Kevin's ex left him for a fan friend that's when things really took a turn for the worse at PB. Apparantly she kept PB product on schedule.
Notice a pattern?
I knew Kevin and Maryann were divorced, I wasn't aware she'd gotten together with someone they knew.
Their ability to keep up with schedules has been bad for at least the last decade and a half, but from looking at their releases, it hasn't gotten any better since my high school days, and may have certainly gotten worse. The last few years in particular seem to be lucky to get their quarterly Rifters and 2-3 or so books out all told. It was never amazing, but I don't remember their release schedule being quite that bad (though things would be on their catalog "coming soon" section for years all the same).
This is also as NMI said the first year the MA's have really made our selves known, like many we are coming out of the shadows and standing forth to declare Palladium is strong and we will game on.
"I understand why your no longer giving release dates. I'm glad your learning. But please don't sell yourself as the victim. For years and the duration of the RRT project you've missed your own deadlines. Even worse you secretly push books back. For example the RT marines book was supposed to come out in the spring. Now it's at the back of the line because of some other books that were never mentioned till recently. I don't understand where this lack of focus comes from. You either work on something till it's done or don't bother with it at all.
Now to make matters worse you've got the backers all rilled up over the disingenuous way you planned on selling RRT at GC when you yourself in update after update told your backers that they were getting the product first. Since the models are stuck in customs many are claiming its karma returning the favor. Then you have your demo teams play it off like it's an RPG when it was sold as a miniatures game. It's all moot now unless your small miracle comes through.
In the future if you run another kickstarter please be more honest and forthcoming with the people who give you their hard earned cash. You've purposely misled your backers for months at a time about the problems ND division encountered with the technical aspects of making the sprues. Saying that everything is great and there's no problems whatsoever makes you look dishonest and like you have something to hide. That's not a good way to run a business. Especially in this day and age where through social media news travels fast, especially bad news.
Others I won't say who have mentioned that the backers are mean people. First of all you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. Second your constant lies and false release dates have created this situation. Nobody entered into the project wanting to criticize you or PB. This is something of your own making. Please understand that miniature gamers aren't the laid back players your used to. They will bend and break every rule inconsistency found in the rules book. If the backers are "mean" it's because you divided the community with your false statements.
Now wave two was scheduled to come out this year and now it may not be till GC 2015. Will you ask the backers for another vote? Will you put them thru that again. Many yes votes were made in out of spite and fear their order would be messed with. Please Kevin learn from your mistakes. And please take pictures of the box and inside contents instead of only showing it to a select few. As others have mentioned show don't tell.
As always thank you Kevin for reading the ravings of a true fan."
While I obviously agree with your points, you're ironically giving palladium too much credit. Even RPGers in general don't agree with their decades long policies of obfuscation, ignorance, and arrogance which is why so many people stopped playing their RPGs to the point that they've unofficially killed off all but two or three of them by cutting support for years. If you mention palladium on indy RPG sites, the hate flows just as freely.
Second, the RT book was supposed to come out many, many years ago and they actually lost the primary author to FFG who quipped that at least he'll finally be able to make "marines in space" via the Deathwatch FFG product line. The most recent version has been following the sad but typical pathetic "keep promising yet simultaneously failing" production schedule.
I picked up a "christmas grab bag" mainly for the max and miriya minis but got robotech books as well. I, at that time prior to the obvious impending RRPGT delays, at least considered getting the marines book which was a "quick release" that was "realistically... early 2014".
And has crept steadily along with RRPGT's delays from the "realistically... early 2014" to early then late spring to various parts of summer to now "later this year". In the meantime, other books have come out. Now, admittedly, some of them were even more screwed up by delays like BOTH their NG crowdfunding books and deserved to be worked on first but others just seem to come out of the woodwork and get edited, art assigned and done, and laid out seemingly out of no where while promised and hyped books languish. This is of course nothing new but it is sad that after decades of publicly having this issue that Palladium as a company seemingly still has the attention span of a terrier confronted simultaneously in different directions by a squirrel, a thrown ball, another dog in heat, and bacon.
In the end, I'm just another lost customer for this product among others that I had definitive plans to buy (like more RRPGT).
Thanks for the update, Mike. Is that your own review or part of the official product? It is good to see some stats mentioned on the experimentals even if I don't at the moment plan on making some of my Battlecry minis in that version. How would you say the normal Qrau differs in play from the modified one? Longer range from the description?
He doesn't even know or use his own RPG rules that he created 20-30 years ago when he runs games. I don't think he'll be the goto source for rules questions in RRPGT either.
@Mike: Do my eyes deceive me?? Is the VF-1J now finally a support card? If so, then yay! Also, you named the files "official" but they have your personal card look. Are they your own versions but the same stats then? Finally, is the Support: Zentraedi Gluu-Ger Infantry Squad supposed to be 6x guys as graphically shown or 12x like you have listed?
As much as I appreciate the effort, Mike, I have to agree with the above. If you're adding stuff on your own (regardless of whether I agree with it!), it's not official. I'd take official out of the file name and clearly label your own creations/modifications within the cards as unofficial additionally.
warboss wrote: As much as I appreciate the effort, Mike, I have to agree with the above. If you're adding stuff on your own (regardless of whether I agree with it!), it's not official. I'd take official out of the file name and clearly label your own creations/modifications within the cards as unofficial additionally.
Sure. What you're experiencing is the same Hokey-Pokey-Derpey that Mike has been dancing for the last six months on the actual KS pages. He posts "his rules" which are "basically the same as the official rules" (which he occasionally admits, and occasionally denies having seen in the last 15 or so months).
When questioned he typically hits the "Oh, I can't answer THAT question because of the NDA", but I'll spend a bunch of time tap dancing around it.
For example, you'll notice that he labeled his stuff as "official" but didn't actually admit they were yet more of his home made stuff until you specifically asked.
When it's pointed out how useless his "official" rules are (note - scare quotes because they're the opposite of "official"), people are just being mean because they're a bunch of haters who hate the game and don't like him.
And then you come along and basically go through the same processes, though slightly abbreviated.
I chalk it up to the difference in mindset between a RPG player and a wargames player. RPG? Sure house-rule the ---- out of it. Wargames? Dude, rtfm, no house-rules.
Although calling stuff official when they're not, I've got no explanations for that
Cypher-xv wrote: Left this for Kevin on his latest murmur on FB.
"I understand why your no longer giving release dates. I'm glad your learning. But please don't sell yourself as the victim. For years and the duration of the RRT project you've missed your own deadlines. Even worse you secretly push books back. For example the RT marines book was supposed to come out in the spring. Now it's at the back of the line because of some other books that were never mentioned till recently. I don't understand where this lack of focus comes from. You either work on something till it's done or don't bother with it at all.
Now to make matters worse you've got the backers all rilled up over the disingenuous way you planned on selling RRT at GC when you yourself in update after update told your backers that they were getting the product first. Since the models are stuck in customs many are claiming its karma returning the favor. Then you have your demo teams play it off like it's an RPG when it was sold as a miniatures game. It's all moot now unless your small miracle comes through.
In the future if you run another kickstarter please be more honest and forthcoming with the people who give you their hard earned cash. You've purposely misled your backers for months at a time about the problems ND division encountered with the technical aspects of making the sprues. Saying that everything is great and there's no problems whatsoever makes you look dishonest and like you have something to hide. That's not a good way to run a business. Especially in this day and age where through social media news travels fast, especially bad news.
Others I won't say who have mentioned that the backers are mean people. First of all you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. Second your constant lies and false release dates have created this situation. Nobody entered into the project wanting to criticize you or PB. This is something of your own making. Please understand that miniature gamers aren't the laid back players your used to. They will bend and break every rule inconsistency found in the rules book. If the backers are "mean" it's because you divided the community with your false statements.
Now wave two was scheduled to come out this year and now it may not be till GC 2015. Will you ask the backers for another vote? Will you put them thru that again. Many yes votes were made in out of spite and fear their order would be messed with. Please Kevin learn from your mistakes. And please take pictures of the box and inside contents instead of only showing it to a select few. As others have mentioned show don't tell.
As always thank you Kevin for reading the ravings of a true fan."
Just curious - did that post get any 'official' responses - or was it deleted/locked/whatever?
Sining wrote: I chalk it up to the difference in mindset between a RPG player and a wargames player. RPG? Sure house-rule the ---- out of it. Wargames? Dude, rtfm, no house-rules.
?
Must be a cultural thing, wargamers here try to house rule everything.
warboss wrote: As much as I appreciate the effort, Mike, I have to agree with the above. If you're adding stuff on your own (regardless of whether I agree with it!), it's not official. I'd take official out of the file name and clearly label your own creations/modifications within the cards as unofficial additionally.
Hey Warboss, actually all the stats are official with the exception of the XX-1J cards that I made individually since the stats are already there and correct they just only come as part of a squadron. I'll not change the name but I will add a sheet that says that the VF-1J single cards are not part of the official stuff. The reason I want to leave the name as official is because I will have my own set that I will use in my games that changes some stats on a couple stats like the Super VT's. The Super VT in Tactics, due to the conversions from the RPG using the damage from the Main Body only the Supers do not take any more damage than a regular VT. I'm giving them 3 more points and changing the prices of a few units for my personal games.
Sining wrote: I chalk it up to the difference in mindset between a RPG player and a wargames player. RPG? Sure house-rule the ---- out of it. Wargames? Dude, rtfm, no house-rules.
?
Must be a cultural thing, wargamers here try to house rule everything.
In my experience, they'll try to house rule everything in a contradictory fashion from one player to the next or at best focus only on different parts that benefit their own armies to the exclusion of other stuff. If house rules were some magic panacea for tabletop games, Palladium would be the top RPG company. Instead they're a has been also ran on life support prior to Robotech Tactics. House rules should be an option to add flavor to a game, not something necessary to fix problems that were known yet not addressed.
Sure. What you're experiencing is the same Hokey-Pokey-Derpey that Mike has been dancing for the last six months on the actual KS pages. He posts "his rules" which are "basically the same as the official rules" (which he occasionally admits, and occasionally denies having seen in the last 15 or so months).
When questioned he typically hits the "Oh, I can't answer THAT question because of the NDA", but I'll spend a bunch of time tap dancing around it.
For example, you'll notice that he labeled his stuff as "official" but didn't actually admit they were yet more of his home made stuff until you specifically asked.
When it's pointed out how useless his "official" rules are (note - scare quotes because they're the opposite of "official"), people are just being mean because they're a bunch of haters who hate the game and don't like him.
And then you come along and basically go through the same processes, though slightly abbreviated.
1. I've never done the Hokey-Pokey and have answered every question that I can.
2. Name ONE rules question that I have not answered because of an NDA. I have had questions with regards to other things that are not rules related that were not appropriate to answer and so I did not answer them.
3. I never answered Warboss's question until just now so your response is just.....well.....asinine.
4. YOU'RE just an ass. So often I just choose to ignore you and live a happier life. You presume to call me a fan-friend because I do not proscribe to your 100% PB is evil mandate and disagree with you on many points. I have criticized PB several times on several aspects of this project. Sorry if anyone who does not follow your lead and kiss your ass upset you. Maybe you are related to KS after all? Maybe you should try to do a little geneology work on the subject or grow up and realize the world is not a bunch of absolutes.
Sining wrote: I chalk it up to the difference in mindset between a RPG player and a wargames player. RPG? Sure house-rule the ---- out of it. Wargames? Dude, rtfm, no house-rules.
?
Must be a cultural thing, wargamers here try to house rule everything.
In my experience, they'll try to house rule everything in a contradictory fashion from one player to the next or at best focus only on different parts that benefit their own armies to the exclusion of other stuff. If house rules were some magic panacea for tabletop games, Palladium would be the top RPG company. Instead they're a has been also ran on life support prior to Robotech Tactics. House rules should be an option to add flavor to a game, not something necessary to fix problems that were known yet not addressed.
House rules can favor factions, that's why if you have a group that plays with them and uses them house rules should only be used if everyone agrees to them. When you have a good bunch of guys to play with House Rules can actually add a lot of fun to a game.
I agree that they can be if you're tight with a bunch of players and everyone agrees. The problem is that, at least in my experience, that isn't the typical FLGS scenario for a new game. Most of the time you end up playing at best an acquaintance in a random pick up game whose first name you *might* know and whom you may have played only a few times over the years in other games. In that baseline scenario, solid rules as written is the best approach as it is a common ground to stand on.
I don't have any issues with house rules as I've made up plenty for the games I play but they're not a replacement for the foundation of solid rules. I can't fully speak to the RRPGT rules as I obviously don't have them yet but I'm not particularly hopeful given the apparent complete lack of response to issues raised last year. YMMV but I don't view the glass half full when Palladium uses the same lazy hand wave off approach to rules issues that they apparently do to equally important things like keeping their word or project planning.
1. I've never done the Hokey-Pokey and have answered every question that I can.
Whatever, Mike. Your answers are pretty much always "I know this, but I can't tell you! NDA!". If someone really wants to find evidence they can read through the nearly 80k comments over on the RTKS site.
Mike1975 wrote: 4. YOU'RE just an ass. So often I just choose to ignore you and live a happier life. You presume to call me a fan-friend because I do not proscribe to your 100% PB is evil mandate and disagree with you on many points. I have criticized PB several times on several aspects of this project. Sorry if anyone who does not follow your lead and kiss your ass upset you. Maybe you are related to KS after all? Maybe you should try to do a little geneology work on the subject or grow up and realize the world is not a bunch of absolutes.
You were doing so well before this. It is hard to be one of few responsive voices involved in any way with PB.
Your work is appreciated and will be a big target for others.
I think PB is pure evil and like you just fine. I would hazard offering that to get that big an emotional response, the ignore button is looking like a good choice.
Hang in there, after wave 1, wave 2 will be giggles in comparison.
Mike1975 wrote: 4. YOU'RE just an ass. So often I just choose to ignore you and live a happier life. You presume to call me a fan-friend because I do not proscribe to your 100% PB is evil mandate and disagree with you on many points. I have criticized PB several times on several aspects of this project. Sorry if anyone who does not follow your lead and kiss your ass upset you. Maybe you are related to KS after all? Maybe you should try to do a little geneology work on the subject or grow up and realize the world is not a bunch of absolutes.
You were doing so well before this. It is hard to be one of few responsive voices involved in any way with PB.
Your work is appreciated and will be a big target for others.
I think PB is pure evil and like you just fine. I would hazard offering that to get that big an emotional response, the ignore button is looking like a good choice.
Hang in there, after wave 1, wave 2 will be giggles in comparison.
Or he could take a step back, remember it is just a game and despite how much work he put into it. It is not his game and people really only care about true offical rules. When the game comes out it is just going to get worse.
PB is about equal to GW in there rules quailty, now PB is in the Table Top Model game. They will be looked at and judged by their rules for it, we don't care about house rules. We want a system that you can take anywhere and get a game using the rules for the game with out having to spend a hour pregame making up are own rules. This is way they will be treated the just like GW for this, most will just not care (really they won't, they will just pick a game without all the BS), some will say PB can do no good (likely poeple who have played their RPGs, and in a lot of ways they are right), and a few will white-knight (never us that term before) with the game is great you just need to change this and do that and it is fine.
Mike1975 wrote: 4. YOU'RE just an ass. So often I just choose to ignore you and live a happier life. You presume to call me a fan-friend because I do not proscribe to your 100% PB is evil mandate and disagree with you on many points. I have criticized PB several times on several aspects of this project. Sorry if anyone who does not follow your lead and kiss your ass upset you. Maybe you are related to KS after all? Maybe you should try to do a little geneology work on the subject or grow up and realize the world is not a bunch of absolutes.
You were doing so well before this. It is hard to be one of few responsive voices involved in any way with PB.
Your work is appreciated and will be a big target for others.
I think PB is pure evil and like you just fine. I would hazard offering that to get that big an emotional response, the ignore button is looking like a good choice.
Hang in there, after wave 1, wave 2 will be giggles in comparison.
Or he could take a step back, remember it is just a game and despite how much work he put into it. It is not his game and people really only care about true offical rules. When the game comes out it is just going to get worse.
PB is about equal to GW in there rules quailty, now PB is in the Table Top Model game. They will be looked at and judged by their rules for it, we don't care about house rules. We want a system that you can take anywhere and get a game using the rules for the game with out having to spend a hour pregame making up are own rules. This is way they will be treated the just like GW for this, most will just not care (really they won't, they will just pick a game without all the BS), some will say PB can do no good (likely poeple who have played their RPGs, and in a lot of ways they are right), and a few will white-knight (never us that term before) with the game is great you just need to change this and do that and it is fine.
Noir, I completely understand your point and agree. If you have read the KS comments and also the comments here you know that I can and do take things personally sometime but most of the time I don't. I typically try to be open and fair minded. Some people just have proven that they are so far to one side of the argument there is not point talking any further.
To date I have not had to take this action with anyone else. I have had good discussion with many that I disagree with and they have been not always been polite but the respect was still there. There is only one person that has shown a kind of attitude and complete lack of respect for others. I simply took some good advice and used the Ignore button. This is far from the first encounter or the first time I've seen the same encounter play out towards people other than myself with this person. I just chose to no longer put up with it. Sad that I feel that I'm better off taking that stand, but that's life.
fruitlewps wrote: No offense to anyone, but i'm going to wait to read ANY rules until I have the "official" rule book that comes with the "boxed game".
Do we get rules too?
I wonder if they will be folded in half to have a nice seam down the middle
Nah. If I wanted to design a game I'd be doing it already.
Spending countless hours tweaking, adjusting, making consistent and outright fixing PB games is one thing when your 20. It's another a decade and a half later. I've already got a career, don't really want a second one.
Which is why I was so happy to hear that ND were supposed to be doing a bunch of the heavy lifting. How naive I was.
Turns out someone at catalyst games spoke to a backer about nd. Turns out nd is distancing themselves from PB. The reason is PB has hampered nd with pb's constant edits. It's on FB. It doesn't have the share option and it won't let me copy an past. At least my initial suspicion about PB taking over was dead on, so it seems.
I completely get the frustration here with the "official" label when it simply isn't official yet & by your own admission Mike, parts of it are not. That can come off as misleading. Not to mention your refusal to rename them. I don't think getting defensive is the answer tbh. Perhaps step back & look at it from the other side. It's like releasing a pirated Deff Leppard album with a song your garage tribute band recorded on there as well & then claiming the album is original. Now you're band may sound great & even like deff leppard but they aren't deff leppard. So why not leave the original as-is & call them official then title the ones with your additions as modified?
Then everyone wins & there's no confusion. Unless PB actually incorporates your ideas no matter how closely you might or might not work with them, they just aren't official. Just like if gw liked my idea for a rough rider platoon & even ran it in games in studio, unless published with their stamp on it it cannot be official.
So anyone want to write an "official" set of 40k rules that I can also ignore?
Not to pick on your stuff but why would I want to bother with trying to figure out a set of fan rules? Everybody will want to use the standard set (ie real official rules) that palladium publishes. (which I'm assuming is going to be absolute crap at this point)
I suppose if I had a majorly enhanced Robotech RPG Tactics boner it might have helped pass the wait over the last year and half, but my interest in the game has really waned as a result of the piss poor treatment of their kickstarter. My battlecry is going up on ebay the minute it arrives, so at this point I won't even be bothering with the real rules let alone a fan set. Unless you are intending to create intentional confusion with the incoming RRT crapfest, you really should nix the "official" bit from the tag line, or at the very least put it in quotes.
Cypher-xv wrote: Turns out someone at catalyst games spoke to a backer about nd. Turns out nd is distancing themselves from PB. The reason is PB has hampered nd with pb's constant edits. It's on FB. It doesn't have the share option and it won't let me copy an past. At least my initial suspicion about PB taking over was dead on, so it seems.
That is incredibly sad to hear. PB being PB is going to kill the game. Should have just let ND do their job instead of lying to all the backers when you said at the onset of the project that you were hands off and just approving things to pass on to HG. It will kill what could have been a really fun game.
Red_Starrise wrote: I completely get the frustration here with the "official" label when it simply isn't official yet & by your own admission Mike, parts of it are not. That can come off as misleading. Not to mention your refusal to rename them. I don't think getting defensive is the answer tbh. Perhaps step back & look at it from the other side. It's like releasing a pirated Deff Leppard album with a song your garage tribute band recorded on there as well & then claiming the album is original. Now you're band may sound great & even like deff leppard but they aren't deff leppard. So why not leave the original as-is & call them official then title the ones with your additions as modified?
Then everyone wins & there's no confusion. Unless PB actually incorporates your ideas no matter how closely you might or might not work with them, they just aren't official. Just like if gw liked my idea for a rough rider platoon & even ran it in games in studio, unless published with their stamp on it it cannot be official.
Oh I understand, but I'll keep it as is because I honestly have had more people ask for ONE unit, the VF-1J than have complained about it not being Official. I'll add a cover sheet saying that the VF-1J are added for continuity but are not official for the game. All the rest are the exact same as the game stats with upgrades and all.
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stanman wrote: So anyone want to write an "official" set of 40k rules that I can also ignore?
Not to pick on your stuff but why would I want to bother with trying to figure out a set of fan rules? Everybody will want to use the standard set (ie real official rules) that palladium publishes. (which I'm assuming is going to be absolute crap at this point)
I suppose if I had a majorly enhanced Robotech RPG Tactics boner it might have helped pass the wait over the last year and half, but my interest in the game has really waned as a result of the piss poor treatment of their kickstarter. My battlecry is going up on ebay the minute it arrives, so at this point I won't even be bothering with the real rules let alone a fan set. Unless you are intending to create intentional confusion with the incoming RRT crapfest, you really should nix the "official" bit from the tag line, or at the very least put it in quotes.
Simple, my cards use the official stats and many prefer their setup to the PB one. I added ONE unit, the VF-1J and had several requests to do so. I have all my stats on one card, you have to use a few cards and swap back and forth until you know the stats pretty well with the PB cards. Since your is going on ebay, there is no point for you to worry either way though.
I have a set of the official stats and rules from a few months ago. These are not fan-based but based off of those. Are you sure you know what you are talking about? I wonder.
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Forar wrote: Nah. If I wanted to design a game I'd be doing it already.
Spending countless hours tweaking, adjusting, making consistent and outright fixing PB games is one thing when your 20. It's another a decade and a half later. I've already got a career, don't really want a second one.
Which is why I was so happy to hear that ND were supposed to be doing a bunch of the heavy lifting. How naive I was.
Completely agreed, I thought ND would be doing the heavy lifting with PB in the background only. That is why I bought into the KS. I wish it really was that way sometimes.
Mike you don't have the current rules, you have an older copy so
anywhoo, most game stores I go to do not allow house rules (too many fights) a couple stores might allow stand ins but only if all parties involved allow it and its not a 100% stand in army (maybe 2% at most is allowable)
Mike1975 wrote: I've heard that before, but unless someone can tell me how they magically have this super secret inside information, I'll believe it when I see it.
Told you I have my magic crystal ball, the one you made fun of last time when I said the container was held up in customs
lol, I never said that would not happen, I just did not profess it as a given. When you profess everything is going to go wrong Murphy will prove you right eventually. That does not make you always right.
Mike and Rick, do you really need to have the same bloody argument across three seperate forums. I read enough of this back and forth crap on the FB and KS sites.
Forar wrote: As much as I respect the time that goes into designing a rules set, so far I'm 0/2 out of the fan versions I've seen.
I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to have to write this one from the ground up.
Edit; which of course is fairly fitting for a Palladium game.
Just "forge the narrative" and use the Robotech RPG stats as a basis, I am sure that is how it will play at Gencon.
Or use as many existing stats you can from Battletech and extrapolate the rest.
<edit / append>
Prediction is that Palladium messes up the rules for the game since they cannot get out of the RPG mindset.
Mike's rules may come in handy for those fan-based games at my local/annual Hotlead where many home-brew games are showcased as well as official.
I too want a "Pick-up-game" rule set where it is universal, I just think that thought process will not be there.
Anyone able to get Gencon: have fun and let us know how the rules go, I really hope I am wrong.
Talizvar wrote: I too want a "Pick-up-game" rule set where it is universal, I just think that thought process will not be there.
Anyone able to get Gencon: have fun and let us know how the rules go, I really hope I am wrong.
I'll try, but there's tons of companies I'm looking to hit up before I even consider going to PB's booth.
Talizvar wrote: I too want a "Pick-up-game" rule set where it is universal, I just think that thought process will not be there.
Anyone able to get Gencon: have fun and let us know how the rules go, I really hope I am wrong.
I'll try, but there's tons of companies I'm looking to hit up before I even consider going to PB's booth.
If I were going I would go spend $500 on GW stuff (dunno if they offer discounts there or not through the various vendors), show up to PB's booth, and tell them that I just purchased all those items with the money I (hope) to get by hocking my kickstarter stuff on Ebay once I get it.
Korias1004 wrote: If I were going I would go spend $500 on GW stuff (dunno if they offer discounts there or not through the various vendors), show up to PB's booth, and tell them that I just purchased all those items with the money I (hope) to get by hocking my kickstarter stuff on Ebay once I get it.
LOL, buy a bunch of crap from a company that doesn't give a damn about you to say to a different company I'm not go to buy your crap becouse you don't give a damn about me, nice. I might spend my money on good companies products to get my point across, but to each their own.
Korias1004 wrote: If I were going I would go spend $500 on GW stuff (dunno if they offer discounts there or not through the various vendors), show up to PB's booth, and tell them that I just purchased all those items with the money I (hope) to get by hocking my kickstarter stuff on Ebay once I get it.
LOL, buy a bunch of crap from a company that doesn't give a damn about you to say to a different company I'm not go to buy your crap becouse you don't give a damn about me, nice. I might spend my money on good companies products to get my point across, but to each their own.
Gah! I agree with that statement, how do you make a point when both companies share some similar customer treatment styles?
So-far I would say Fantasy Flight has made me very happy, if only they can fix those supply meeting demand issues.
Those other two only wish had that problem for the same reasons.
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Cypher-xv wrote: Looking forward to the show! Remember if you visit the PB booth please tape it and ask hard questions.
Sorry I am having visions of "get that out of my face!" and covering of the camera, etc.
Or the simple "Which kickstarter client are you? Just so I can be sure your product is treated extra special...".
Forar wrote: Nah. If I wanted to design a game I'd be doing it already.
Spending countless hours tweaking, adjusting, making consistent and outright fixing PB games is one thing when your 20. It's another a decade and a half later. I've already got a career, don't really want a second one.
Which is why I was so happy to hear that ND were supposed to be doing a bunch of the heavy lifting. How naive I was.
LOL. I was 19 and in college when I worked on a stop-gap movement system for the Robotech RPG to handle combat involving fast-moving aircraft and Destroids at long range. Because how can you roleplay that stuff like Siembieda apparently wanted you to? It used a hex map and had turn counters, etc.
The same issues were there with The Mechanoid Invasion. At the same time I was working on the RRPG fix, I wondered if it was just me -- if I was just missing something with the basic mechanics of Palladium's system. And here all these years later I find out that I was one of many who had these issues.
gorgon wrote: The same issues were there with The Mechanoid Invasion. At the same time I was working on the RRPG fix, I wondered if it was just me -- if I was just missing something with the basic mechanics of Palladium's system. And here all these years later I find out that I was one of many who had these issues.
Makes me sad all the missed opportunities for collaboration of fixing the various systems of the day before internet was a glimmer in someone's eye.
I had the same issue with the Robotech RPG, got into Mechanoid on their re-release, just could not capture the idea of the speed of those things with their system.
Now there is probably a bloody app for that.
Still blows people's minds when I say "I am older than the internet!".
Korias1004 wrote: If I were going I would go spend $500 on GW stuff (dunno if they offer discounts there or not through the various vendors), show up to PB's booth, and tell them that I just purchased all those items with the money I (hope) to get by hocking my kickstarter stuff on Ebay once I get it.
LOL, buy a bunch of crap from a company that doesn't give a damn about you to say to a different company I'm not go to buy your crap becouse you don't give a damn about me, nice. I might spend my money on good companies products to get my point across, but to each their own.
Gah! I agree with that statement, how do you make a point when both companies share some similar customer treatment styles?
So-far I would say Fantasy Flight has made me very happy, if only they can fix those supply meeting demand issues.
Those other two only wish had that problem for the same reasons.
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Cypher-xv wrote: Looking forward to the show! Remember if you visit the PB booth please tape it and ask hard questions.
Sorry I am having visions of "get that out of my face!" and covering of the camera, etc.
Or the simple "Which kickstarter client are you? Just so I can be sure your product is treated extra special...".
Yeah that was how in felt when I called PB & once I started calling them on their BS he then asked "So which backer are you?" When I said I wasn't the backer of record but rather my friend & I shared a pledge his response (under his breath) "oh that's too bad".
Automatically Appended Next Post: Max and Miriya from last year are there plus in one pic you can see the KS Exclusive Miriya in the corner of a display box. I did not see Khyron though. :(
Thanks! The friend of mine sent me a few texts but no pics of the event.
edit: So they had all that stuff ready to showcase but couldn't find the 15 minutes in the past 3 weeks that it would take to post pics of it in an update? Instead we get tweedle dee posing in front of empty cardboard boxes for a shot by tweedle dum as an update.
edit 2: I couldn't get the facebook link to work but found the site it references in the link below.
They probably are. The Red is really orange and that purple, yuk. Just use 18m Mosaic beads. That's what I do. I have red, black, white, green, and blue. I use Blue for UEDF, Black for Malcontents and Green for Zen. I use White for guns and Red for missiles when declaring attacks. Sometimes I'll use black to represent the attacks by the Squadron leader who has better gunnery skills.
It is but it is also rushed BTP work. They only got them the minis two or three weeks before the event and had them squeezed in. Normally, their turnaround is alot longer from what I've heard (I've never used them though so can't say for sure). Like everything else Palladium, this is wait... wait... rush... fail.
warboss wrote: It is but it is also rushed BTP work. They only got them the minis two or three weeks before the event and had them squeezed in. Normally, their turnaround is alot longer from what I've heard (I've never used them though so can't say for sure). Like everything else Palladium, this is wait... wait... rush... fail.
I don't think the demo pieces are painted by BTP, BTP has standards after all. The painting on the demo pieces aren't even painted with straight lines! If I was assuming I think its painted by the PB people themselves.
Those on the display case (well at least the better painted ones) would be done by BTP.
Having said that. I have yet seen another miniture game demoing their projucts with such low quality painted models.
warboss wrote: It is but it is also rushed BTP work. They only got them the minis two or three weeks before the event and had them squeezed in. Normally, their turnaround is alot longer from what I've heard (I've never used them though so can't say for sure). Like everything else Palladium, this is wait... wait... rush... fail.
I don't think the demo pieces are painted by BTP, BTP has standards after all. The painting on the demo pieces aren't even painted with straight lines! If I was assuming I think its painted by the PB people themselves.
Those on the display case (well at least the better painted ones) would be done by BTP.
Having said that. I have yet seen another miniture game demoing their projucts with such low quality painted models.
They look perfectly fine for demo/gaming paintjobs, no point in wasting $60~100+ per model for paintjobs on models that are going to get wrecked over the course of Gen Con.
warboss wrote: It is but it is also rushed BTP work. They only got them the minis two or three weeks before the event and had them squeezed in. Normally, their turnaround is alot longer from what I've heard (I've never used them though so can't say for sure). Like everything else Palladium, this is wait... wait... rush... fail.
I don't think the demo pieces are painted by BTP, BTP has standards after all. The painting on the demo pieces aren't even painted with straight lines! If I was assuming I think its painted by the PB people themselves.
Those on the display case (well at least the better painted ones) would be done by BTP.
Having said that. I have yet seen another miniture game demoing their projucts with such low quality painted models.
They look perfectly fine for demo/gaming paintjobs, no point in wasting $60~100+ per model for paintjobs on models that are going to get wrecked over the course of Gen Con.
I completely and utterly disagree. The demo miniatures should look FANTASTIC. It's just one more thing to trick your brain into approving of the game and therefore wanting to buy it. Bad looking pieces? Then it must be a bad game. It's pretty basic psychology. If it didn't work, then why use attractive people for models and actors?
warboss wrote: It is but it is also rushed BTP work. They only got them the minis two or three weeks before the event and had them squeezed in. Normally, their turnaround is alot longer from what I've heard (I've never used them though so can't say for sure). Like everything else Palladium, this is wait... wait... rush... fail.
I don't think the demo pieces are painted by BTP, BTP has standards after all. The painting on the demo pieces aren't even painted with straight lines! If I was assuming I think its painted by the PB people themselves.
Those on the display case (well at least the better painted ones) would be done by BTP.
Having said that. I have yet seen another miniture game demoing their projucts with such low quality painted models.
They were absolutely painted by BTP. They're in one of the "walk through the work area" progress update videos they posted a week or two ago and IIRC they even mentioned sending it to them somewhere (whether it was a KS update or a murmur or a press release I can't recall).
Easy E wrote: Not to be an idiot, but can I get this at my FLGS YET?!?
Given the delay this project has had, it isn't a stupid question. The answer is that Palladium will work night and day to make sure that you, random possible store buyer guy, will be the first to enjoy the RobotechTM minis at the expense of backers.
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Talizvar wrote: Are we sure they are ALL ones from BTP?
The badly painted ones look suspiciously like the original demo ones I saw at Anime North last year.
They probably are. They're not going to throw away old and outdated stuff given their history of not closing down their RPG business.
Oh my mouth was open when i saw the PB ad in the Gencon coupon book- "be one of the first to see and purchase this exciting new addition to the Robotech Game Series"
I shouldn't be surprised, but they're note even trying to hide their plan was to put the backers lowest in priority.
Anyone know the lead time for coupon book submissions?
vitae_drinker wrote: I completely and utterly disagree. The demo miniatures should look FANTASTIC. It's just one more thing to trick your brain into approving of the game and therefore wanting to buy it. Bad looking pieces? Then it must be a bad game. It's pretty basic psychology. If it didn't work, then why use attractive people for models and actors?
You have your amazing paintjobs standing in a well lit display case, protected by acrylic or glass. You have decently painted models on the tables to get wrecked during demoing, because they will get wrecked. Demoees are terrible to miniatures, especially at Gen Con.
These are models that are going to get covered in grease/food remains, dropped, stepped on, scrapped arcoss the table, smashed by decide, crushed by hands/arms/butts... they do not last, and you should not waste money on studio level paint jobs.
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ThaneCawdor wrote: Anyone know the lead time for coupon book submissions?
I'd have to check my e-mails, but I think around March/April.
vitae_drinker wrote: I completely and utterly disagree. The demo miniatures should look FANTASTIC. It's just one more thing to trick your brain into approving of the game and therefore wanting to buy it. Bad looking pieces? Then it must be a bad game. It's pretty basic psychology. If it didn't work, then why use attractive people for models and actors?
You have your amazing paintjobs standing in a well lit display case, protected by acrylic or glass. You have decently painted models on the tables to get wrecked during demoing, because they will get wrecked. Demoees are terrible to miniatures, especially at Gen Con.
These are models that are going to get covered in grease/food remains, dropped, stepped on, scrapped arcoss the table, smashed by decide, crushed by hands/arms/butts... they do not last, and you should not waste money on studio level paint jobs.
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ThaneCawdor wrote: Anyone know the lead time for coupon book submissions?
I'd have to check my e-mails, but I think around March/April.
You have to spend money to make money. I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
Some of their actions and choices of late make that a suspect assumption.
Note, I'm not one of those "omg maybe they're broke and spent it all?!?!" types, just noting that they may not have been able to justify thousands of dollars to get the demo pieces done to professional levels.
We've known they've been in the Gencon booklet for quite some time already. Considering they were down to the wire here, it wouldn't shock me if they set that up ages ago.
Remember, Wayne flat out told me in the update comments back in January that he had full faith RRT would be at Gencon.
Hell, March might've still been when they still proclaimed that backer stuff was going out in June.
This year the Exhibitor's hall sold out incredibly quick, normally you get still get a booth by December, this year they were completely sold out in September.
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