H.B.M.C. wrote: I love how all the endless spells are slightly different ways of delivering Mortal Wounds.
yeah, you're right, all the endless spells are just different ways of delivering mortal wounds. Just like the prismatic pallisade and its LOS blocking and ranged offense reducing capabilities.
Oh wait.
Or well, like the soulsnare shackles whose primary function is to reduce movement from the enemy.
What?
Or the emerald lifeswarm which is about healing, or the chronomantinc cogs which is about either adding protection and magical proficiency or speed to your army, or the spell portals which are about adding range and path ways to your spells.
...
Well, are faction specific spells are indeed just different ways of adding mortal wounds like the beastmen dirgehorn that reduces the hitting capabilities of the enemy, the stormcast dais arcanum that boosts casting ability and the caster's speed, or the gitz' cauldron that allows the caster access to all the spells of a specific lore.
...
Oh wait, no, Endless spells are just not different ways of dealing mortal wounds.
That Court vs Rats set is quite tempting. It's amusing how lopsided the battle is, but those ghouls are totally outgunned. I'm guessing they're pure Skyre? I'm fine with the rats going all in on the wyrdtech!
Plus the lure of new units for both? Oh dear me...
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That Court vs Rats set is quite tempting. It's amusing how lopsided the battle is, but those ghouls are totally outgunned. I'm guessing they're pure Skyre? I'm fine with the rats going all in on the wyrdtech!
Plus the lure of new units for both? Oh dear me...
Clan Skryre is the only skaven I'm interested in and IMHO the only clan which should have their own battletome of the remaining clans (Pestilens already has a battletome). If Clan Skryre does get their own battletome it will be a hard decision between them and the Gloomspite Gitz.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That Court vs Rats set is quite tempting. It's amusing how lopsided the battle is, but those ghouls are totally outgunned. I'm guessing they're pure Skyre? I'm fine with the rats going all in on the wyrdtech!
Plus the lure of new units for both? Oh dear me...
There aren't any new units in there, just new commanders.
---
Hard pass on that box for me. Seems way too specialized to be a good idea.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: That Court vs Rats set is quite tempting. It's amusing how lopsided the battle is, but those ghouls are totally outgunned. I'm guessing they're pure Skyre? I'm fine with the rats going all in on the wyrdtech!
Plus the lure of new units for both? Oh dear me...
TBF with the indicated weapon loadout on the stormfiends the battle is evenish depending on what the heroes are like. Hopefully they will FINALLY nerf warpfire projectors to be balanced with the other weapon options. But regardless super excited for new characters and implied battletomes for them. I have a Skryre army already and I've always liked FEC too.
Gallahad wrote: How expensive are the battle boxes typically? The flesh eater courts side of that looks very good.
Depends on what other contents it comes with, unfortunately.
I'm guessing $130 to $150 for this one. Somewhere in that price range.
The last like 4/5 have all been the same price. I don’t expect this one to be different.
Edit: actually, wake the dead was very slightly cheaper.
The reason I say the prices I did is because they have some different mechanisms in place when it's a 'theme' set like this or Blight War vs, say, Wake the Dead or the like.
The Skaven Doom Wheel, while incredibly awesome, has got to be one of the biggest pain in the rear models to build/paint. Mine is still unbuilt after all these years and probably never will be
hotsauceman1 wrote: The new FEC stuff pretty much confirms no Night Haunt of Gloomspite Gitz for me.
Gonna break out the FEC stuff woot.
That is pretty exciting, I hope they release a plastic varghulf. The current resin model is okay but i'd rather see them phase out that material, it could also use a kit with a different pose and maybe two head options. I came really close to starting FEC last summer, but decided to hold off cause I figured for all I know they'll continue to have a limited range of plastic models for a long time. I kind of dislike these new models being exclusive to boxed sets though, makes it annoying trying to collect them.
TBH I don't think FEC are getting anything other than that hero, some endless spells and maybe a terrain piece. That's quite a bit really but I don't think we'll see any new units or other characters. My reasoning is that the new hero is really just a naked guy with a fancy pauldron. The FEC models don't really match their background, and this guy is way too similar to the old range to signal a broader update. IMO of course.
Maybe, but the varghulf isn't really a new unit. It just seems like a good time as any to update that kit and finally dump that meh resin version. The varghulf seemed like a popular choice in peoples lists, and is one of the more memorable units in the army. It's like the only old model in the army that needs an updated kit. Endless spells and a terrain piece does seem more likely, but I hope they get a more substantial update than what the beastmen got. It might be best if I just prepare to be disappointed though.
Yes, I know I am, because I was talking about the ones that were just put on pre-order.
Obviously.
Context Kragan. Context.
That's quite a bit of snark for being clearly and demonstrably wrong. The new cauldron is solely a buff to the casting wizard (+1 casting/deny and knowledge of the whole lore), so doesn't do a single wound of any kind - which he pointed out in the post you quoted.
The moon does a few token mortals, but it's primarily a way to debuff enemy wizards (-2 to casting if nearby).
The last two do toss out mortals, but one is a stationary area denial tool and the other allows spiders to move freely across it, providing them with a positional advantage.
Tiberius501 wrote: I know Grots are old news now, but anyone got any leaks/images/vids talking about point costs for them?
Guerilla Miniatures Gaming talks about the points in this video, from 57:35 onwards. Not as practical as reading them on a piece of paper but far better than nothing..
Here it is typed out in a somewhat chaotic fashion. Typically goes Name - Size - Points/Horde Discount - Role/notes. You're smart people. I'm sure you'll be fine.
Here it is typed out in a somewhat chaotic fashion. Typically goes Name - Size - Points/Horde Discount - Role/notes. You're smart people. I'm sure you'll be fine.
Wow, dank meme troggoths can be taken in a unit of 1-3? That's pretty awesome. And Boingrot Bounderz being 5 for 100 seems like a steal. I'd gladly pay 200 for a unit of 10. And 160 for 3 rockgut trolls? These point costs seem pretty nice to me
*sigh* That's not really what the phrase means, but if you insist on further embarrassing yourself...
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron wrote:When the Scrapskuttle’s Arachnacauldron is set up, and at the start of each of the caster’s hero phases after it is set up, you must pick 1 unit within 3" of the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Note that this means that if there are no other units within 3" of the caster, then the caster will suffer the mortal wounds.
Look! More mortals wounds. Just like I fething said.
*sigh* That's not really what the phrase means, but if you insist on further embarrassing yourself...
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron wrote:When the Scrapskuttle’s Arachnacauldron is set up, and at the start of each of the caster’s hero phases after it is set up, you must pick 1 unit within 3" of the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Note that this means that if there are no other units within 3" of the caster, then the caster will suffer the mortal wounds.
Look! More mortals wounds. Just like I fething said.
It is true that the endless spells all deal mortal wounds, but that is not all they do. One buffs a spell caster and has to be fed mortals wounds. One can be used to block off parts of the battlefield to the enemy while allowing you to move freely if you have a spider army. One is a fairly typical mortal wound generator that is particularly powerful against hordes. The last also generates mortal wounds but also debuffs enemy spell casting which is very useful in AoS right now.
And the old trolls, goblin fanatics and squigs are gone from Games Workshop webstore. A shame -- I had just considered getting some of the old models, as I never had bought any. I'm not quite sure why GW doesn't put the figures on "last chance to buy" or something. Oh well.
*sigh* That's not really what the phrase means, but if you insist on further embarrassing yourself...
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron wrote:When the Scrapskuttle’s Arachnacauldron is set up, and at the start of each of the caster’s hero phases after it is set up, you must pick 1 unit within 3" of the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Note that this means that if there are no other units within 3" of the caster, then the caster will suffer the mortal wounds.
Look! More mortals wounds. Just like I fething said.
It does mortal wounds =/= the purpose is to do mortal wounds. You are clearly wrong here.
That Skryre warlock!
I'm hoping that's the doom rocket that's made a return.
Seems like an insanely one sided match though.
Small armies mean a small board, flesh eaters will decimate them up close and it's not a great deal of shooting.
Does however mean a new model and cheap eBay skryre for me so happy days.
Just hoping it's followed with a plastic acolyte kit so I don't have to convert any more.
Skryre has the edge actually; stormfiends will beat the crap out of any one of those FEC units in melee so they will need to be ganged up on, leaving the other units more room to shoot. This is assuming the stormfiends have the pictured weapon options and not what people actually take (3x warpfire) in which case the Skryre wins hands down unless that FEC hero is a serious badass.
In fairness DoK do seem to need a second-wave release. When one looks at the releases that grots and Idoneth have had its clear that GW is boosting up armies to be larger now for AoS in terms of unit diversity. DoK are still "small" in general (at least in terms of kits if you ignore the fact that the cauldron makes multiple options). A second wave with a new leader in a start collecting box and a set of endless spells would be good (though saying that Idoneth also need their endless spells too)
Overread wrote: In fairness DoK do seem to need a second-wave release. When one looks at the releases that grots and Idoneth have had its clear that GW is boosting up armies to be larger now for AoS in terms of unit diversity. DoK are still "small" in general (at least in terms of kits if you ignore the fact that the cauldron makes multiple options). A second wave with a new leader in a start collecting box and a set of endless spells would be good (though saying that Idoneth also need their endless spells too)
I think they’ll do this kind of release for older factions (Sylvaneth, Kharadron, Fyreslayers) when they update the Battletome. Problem with DoK is that it already has a new style Battletome. It and Deepkin’s were supposedly made with AoS2 already in mind. They do need some endless spells though.
Overread wrote: In fairness DoK do seem to need a second-wave release. When one looks at the releases that grots and Idoneth have had its clear that GW is boosting up armies to be larger now for AoS in terms of unit diversity. DoK are still "small" in general (at least in terms of kits if you ignore the fact that the cauldron makes multiple options). A second wave with a new leader in a start collecting box and a set of endless spells would be good (though saying that Idoneth also need their endless spells too)
Idoneth also need an Akhelian on a monster mount to really finish out their setup. The King is nice and all but could really use that monstrous mount...
I'm, personally, thinking that the 'new leader' for DoK is going to be something mounted to go along with the theme that the Doomfires can setup.
And for a bit of wild speculation with regards to the contents of Deepkin:
1x Akhelian King
1x Akhelian Eel Riders
1x Akhelian Allopex
Feel like DoK could do with a hero that is either Sister of Slaughter and/or Khinerai.
Personally I feel that GW could have harvested a bit more from the old Dark Elf range into Daughters of Khaine. The Dark Elf Sorceress and one on the dragon could have fit relatively easy into a DoK theme army.
As someone who doesn't play AoS but am getting mighty tempted to just buy some gitz and at that point might dabble in them game, can someone explain to me if the sneaky snufflers are at all good? I love truffle squigs (and that's something I never though I'd say a couple of weeks ago)
Let's be honest : these kits will be usable in many others games as well, including those from Mantic Games. But also for RPG. I mean, they gakking have goblin "truffle hunters", and the gobbapalooza have such character that they are perfect for some quite excentric goblin NPC/opponent.
*sigh* That's not really what the phrase means, but if you insist on further embarrassing yourself...
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron wrote:When the Scrapskuttle’s Arachnacauldron is set up, and at the start of each of the caster’s hero phases after it is set up, you must pick 1 unit within 3" of the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Note that this means that if there are no other units within 3" of the caster, then the caster will suffer the mortal wounds.
Look! More mortals wounds. Just like I fething said.
It does mortal wounds =/= the purpose is to do mortal wounds. You are clearly wrong here.
By that he is specifically right.
He said they all do Mortal Wounds.
Unless I missed another post where he then said their “purpose” is to do Mortal Wounds...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I love how all the endless spells are slightly different ways of delivering Mortal Wounds.
For ease as it’s acouple of pages back now..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Moving away from pointless petty sniping for no reason..
Regarding the FEC.
I think in no way are they getting more than that character unfortunately guys..
Don’t get too excited.
Look at all the other army boxes that had new characters in them, how many got other releases?
Necrons, Eldar etc. Not sure on the AoS ones without checking up..
(Endless Spells And a terrain piece though, perhaps, as that seems to be something all armies are slowly getting, whether other new bits or not..)
He said they all do Mortal Wounds.
Unless I missed another post where he then said their “purpose” is to do Mortal Wounds...
Still beating that dead horse ? By the way, it's completely false, since the "vanilla" endless spells don't do all Mortal Wounds.
Prismatic Palisade is a summoned obstacle, Emerald Lifeswarm heals, Balewind Vortex enhances the caster it carries, Chronomantic Cogs are one of the favorite played for their easy buffs and making it more difficult for the opponent to benefit from it and, of course, Umbral Spellportal's only purpose is to give another entrypoint/exit point for spells cast at one side of the portal.
Even one of the spells from Stormcast Eternals is basically a flying Balewind Vortex.
So, no, they're not just about "doing mortal wounds". It's more about "using a miniature to play spell effects".
He looked at these new Endless Spells, then said oh love that they all do MW.
I never saw him mention all the endless spells in the game? So why are you just naming spells?
I don’t really care about the fact they do it or not, but everyone is jumping on him for something he didn’t say. Which to be fair is typical Dakka..
Yeah he may have been rude in reply at some point, i forget by now as this keeps going on, but even then clarified what it was he meant (which you’d think he would know, as he made the comment) yet still people are arguing it..
Just repost the other half of my post as that’s what I wanted to discuss:
Regarding the FEC.
I think in no way are they getting more than that character unfortunately guys..
Don’t get too excited.
Look at all the other army boxes that had new characters in them, how many got other releases?
Necrons, Eldar etc. Not sure on the AoS ones without checking up..
(Endless Spells And a terrain piece though, perhaps, as that seems to be something all armies are slowly getting, whether other new bits or not..)
GW, overall, has been following this weird trend lately, with many, many products going to "sold out - no longer available". Mostly specialist game dice, blood bowl pitches, etc.
But why label them with "sold out - no longer available", when they already put "temporary out of stock". This kind of stuff scares a lot of people and goads them into buying from scalpers. Who, I think, will be more than happy to sell them for x5 the price.
Carrion Empire strikes a weird cord for me, as I had always wanted to get a set of ghouls and Crypt horrors, just because I've always liked the models. And the Stormfiends are a Skaven unit I don't have. Plus the two heroes are really nice. I'll have to find some use for the doomwheel, and warpfire though.
Yeah, I'm very tempted with the Carrion Empire box. Skaven and Ghouls are two armies I would like to expand on.
But, Ghouls need more new units other than just a new character and Skaven need a new unified army book.
I reckon Ghoul endless spells are going to be nasty looking.
The Data Cards - once out of stock - are never reprinted. This applies both to AoS and 40k and if you see them still available it just means they aren't sold out.
This is one of the reasons that I tend to buy the datasheet cards on release even if I don't buy the Battletome. The tome will be reprinted, but the cards have been so far not been reprinted.
It is very annoying as these cards are very helpful and the tokens are a nice addition.
Danny76 wrote: Just repost the other half of my post as that’s what I wanted to discuss:
Regarding the FEC.
I think in no way are they getting more than that character unfortunately guys..
Don’t get too excited.
Look at all the other army boxes that had new characters in them, how many got other releases?
Necrons, Eldar etc. Not sure on the AoS ones without checking up..
(Endless Spells And a terrain piece though, perhaps, as that seems to be something all armies are slowly getting, whether other new bits or not..)
GW has this to say on the matter:
This boxed set will be out soon – and we’re not stopping there. In the coming weeks, we’ll have even more exciting news on the way for Skaven and Flesh-eater Courts players…
GW definitely wants us to get excited about something.
As for previous versus boxes, it can go either way. The Nurgle snail rider came before the Nurgle release. The Sigmarine assassin in the same box came after Vanguard. Soace Wolves got the obligatory Lieutenant and that's it. The Genestealer half comes in anticipation of the new codex and lots of new models. I wouldn't read too much into the existence of a new character in such a box, in either direction.
I could easily see a terrain piece for ghouls, easier than spells even. Most terrain helps with summoning, ghouls summon. It can just be a patch of a recent battlefield full of corpses.
Really hoping for a plastic Varghulf too so we are 100% failcast free.
To be fair, I hadn’t seen they’d said that. Or forgotten if so
But I still think it will just be spells and terrain.
It gets them in line with more recent releases.
I assume before long everyone will have spells and a terrain piece, so getting them out alongside things like this will be best, for any who aren’t getting a new book or anything..
A Skyre Battletome with a piece of scenery, three endless spells and two or three updated plastic kits for the weapon team, jezzail and acolytes would be a solid release.
Chopstick wrote: Look like the "variety of weapons" for the big Troggoth is just 4 different heads for the hammer.
Yeah, it looks like it's just two different hammerheads for the big hammer and the one-handed club + centipede-squeezing fist as the other option. All Dankholds have Boulder Club & Crushing Grip so the rules are all the same regardless of how you model them (Boss has 1 more attack).
I hoped there would at least be an alternative to the centipede fist but nope. Likewise there isn't a spare Squig head to replace the one with the Goblin's legs sticking out, the lacking of which bothers me. The Squig faces from the Herd and Hopper kits also aren't interchangeable (Herd Squigs are smaller mini's). As far as that goes the variety is rather disappointing. I still absolutely love these miniatures though, don't get me wrong. It just means only the one Dankhold kit will be bought by me which I guess is GW's loss for not putting more options in there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw, is there any reason not to put the two Mangler Squigs on separate bases and use them as "Loonboss(es) on Giant Cave Squig"?
What base size does a Loonboss on Giant Cave Squigs have?
GW only has the ancient way too small model on their site and even when they update the square base to a round one the issue still remains that the model still is way too small. That supposedly giant Squig isn't even larger than the new Squig Hopper's Squigs.
really not sure about the big troll. Sad since I usually like troll, but he is much too cartoonish (yeah I said it). Stone troll are great though
The mangler squig is terrific. I hate the concept, but it's an incredible mini. Just don't expect it to last long, since it seems like it will break apart simply by looking at it.
The gobbapalooza are pretty cool, bar scaremonger who is just ridiculous. I really like this idea of goblins having tons of different shamans.
Snuffle grots are just alright.
On another subject, god damn, that ghoul king is terrific. Can't wait to see the new kits for that army
Btw, is there any reason not to put the two Mangler Squigs on separate bases and use them as "Loonboss(es) on Giant Cave Squig"?
Don't see why not. Put them on a scenic base so they're as tall as the stock model, so TFG doesn't whine about LOS.
The Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig comes on a 40mm square base currently. Manglers come on an 80mm round base. If anything the Manglers may be a bit too big.
Btw, is there any reason not to put the two Mangler Squigs on separate bases and use them as "Loonboss(es) on Giant Cave Squig"?
Don't see why not. Put them on a scenic base so they're as tall as the stock model, so TFG doesn't whine about LOS.
The Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig comes on a 40mm square base currently. Manglers come on an 80mm round base. If anything the Manglers may be a bit too big.
I skimmed too quickly, thought he meant making two Manglers out of one.
You wouldn’t need to have the goblin in the squig model, if they’d just made the legs bit modular.
Because I’d bet you could put a closed mouth over the goblin himself as it’s just a face (judging by all the rest any face fits on any body/throat.
But then a different one would just have random legs on his teeth (bit of work cutting off in order if I ever got the kit twice..
Btw, is there any reason not to put the two Mangler Squigs on separate bases and use them as "Loonboss(es) on Giant Cave Squig"?
Don't see why not. Put them on a scenic base so they're as tall as the stock model, so TFG doesn't whine about LOS.
The Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig comes on a 40mm square base currently. Manglers come on an 80mm round base. If anything the Manglers may be a bit too big.
I skimmed too quickly, thought he meant making two Manglers out of one.
And for sure, always a good idea, one boss one normal. Makes the price a lot better..
On the note of hope heads, they are the same size still, it’s just the come in weird halves, but I think they still might fit over the body of either kit looking..
Interesting to note - Flesheater Courts Battletome is now listed as sold out and no longer available on the GWUK Website.
Rare that I've ever seen a Battletome to go out of stock let alone off sale without any news of a new one being released. Interesting times might be afoot indeed! Or just the GW monkey in charge clicked the wrong button perhaps.
Overread wrote: Interesting to note - Flesheater Courts Battletome is now listed as sold out and no longer available on the GWUK Website.
Rare that I've ever seen a Battletome to go out of stock let alone off sale without any news of a new one being released. Interesting times might be afoot indeed! Or just the GW monkey in charge clicked the wrong button perhaps.
It's listed as 'Sold Out - No Longer Available' on the US web store as well.
EDIT: The English version is also 'Sold Out - No Longer Available' in Spain, Germany, France and Australia.
Who needs basic night goblin models anyway when you have the superior battle for skull pass ones. I never liked how the robes mix with the shoulder and the arms in the multipart kit.
I like the infantry kit for two reasons; it has aged well and it is simple. The body and head is one piece, then each arm is one piece. There is little detail. For a unit that is used in potentially multiple 40+ man blobs this is a VERY good thing.
You wouldn’t need to have the goblin in the squig model, if they’d just made the legs bit modular.
Because I’d bet you could put a closed mouth over the goblin himself as it’s just a face (judging by all the rest any face fits on any body/throat.
But then a different one would just have random legs on his teeth (bit of work cutting off in order if I ever got the kit twice..
Btw, is there any reason not to put the two Mangler Squigs on separate bases and use them as "Loonboss(es) on Giant Cave Squig"?
Don't see why not. Put them on a scenic base so they're as tall as the stock model, so TFG doesn't whine about LOS.
The Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig comes on a 40mm square base currently. Manglers come on an 80mm round base. If anything the Manglers may be a bit too big.
I skimmed too quickly, thought he meant making two Manglers out of one.
And for sure, always a good idea, one boss one normal. Makes the price a lot better.
Do note that GW requires kits to be complete, so official GW events would probably disqualify 'half-manglers'. Outside of that it could probably slide so long as one corrected the height issue. And obviously casual play only TFG will care.
Do they? Understandable I suppose.
But I wonder if there’s leeway there.
I can imagine if someone had a Kharadron airship of some kind with one mangler on top, bringing it to roughly the right height, then it’d be ok.
But that’s probably because you’ve spent more money on the airship kit so they let it slide.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Side note.
I don’t have money spare or time for these goblins, or AoS really which is why I haven’t delved into it yet.
But if someone gives me a load of night goblins on rounds, I would surely buy a lot of squigs.. and find the time
Reading the guidelines for Warhammer World games, simply splitting the Mangler Squigs and sticking both on a simple piece of rock would probably be frowned upon? I think? But base both on an tidal wave of smaller squigs and it should be fine? I suppose?
The cynical me wants to say that the conversion if fine as long as it cost you as much as the base model would
streetsamurai wrote:The mangler squig is terrific. I hate the concept, but it's an incredible mini.
I thought so too, but then somebody pointed out the tiny feet of the manglers.
They look really weird to me now :-/
I have a cure for that, at the end of which you'll accept the squig feet just fine but will take exception to the humongous feet on all of GW's other models.
I have a cure for that, at the end of which you'll accept the squig feet just fine but will take exception to the humongous feet on all of GW's other models.
It looks like some people misunderstood what I want do:
I want a plastic "Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig", not alter the model for the "Mangler Squig" battletome entry.
Since Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together splitting the kit up into two separate Loonbosses on Giant Cave Squigs on separate bases as separate army list entries would seem obvious, right? There is no high issue because we are not messing with the Mangler entry. And btw no tournaments or anything official will ever be played with this model.
So that leaves the question what (minimum) base size would this single plastic Loonboss on GCS have to have? Since the outdated Finecast model on GW's website with said name is too tiny, and the artists formerly known as Skarsnik & Gobbla (who is of course also a Giant Cave Squig) and this too-small Finecast GCS riding Loonboss will most likely get two different round base sizes once GW updates them from square to round, it seems unclear.
I was thinking a 50mm base would be good (provided the plastic Giant Squig fits on that base)? Maybe 60mm?
TBD wrote: Since Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together...
What leads you to that conclusion? The unit name is 'Mangler Squigs' as in there are two Mangler Squigs making up the unit. The Giant Cave Squig can be found on the old Skarsnik and Gobbla model and the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig model which shows the Giant Cave Squig is smaller than a single Mangler Squig.
TBD wrote: Since Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together...
What leads you to that conclusion? The unit name is 'Mangler Squigs' as in there are two Mangler Squigs making up the unit. The Giant Cave Squig can be found on the old Skarsnik and Gobbla model and the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig model which shows the Giant Cave Squig is smaller than a single Mangler Squig.
The new battletome literally says Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together on page 31.
TBD wrote: Since Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together...
What leads you to that conclusion? The unit name is 'Mangler Squigs' as in there are two Mangler Squigs making up the unit. The Giant Cave Squig can be found on the old Skarsnik and Gobbla model and the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig model which shows the Giant Cave Squig is smaller than a single Mangler Squig.
The new battletome literally says Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together on page 31.
I think it's a good idea and I'll probably do the same. Not a fan of the old model and with some creativity this would look much better. Just put it on the same size base. If people get picky then have the boss hanging off the side at the right height.
TBD wrote: Since Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together...
What leads you to that conclusion? The unit name is 'Mangler Squigs' as in there are two Mangler Squigs making up the unit. The Giant Cave Squig can be found on the old Skarsnik and Gobbla model and the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig model which shows the Giant Cave Squig is smaller than a single Mangler Squig.
The new battletome literally says Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together on page 31.
Lowercase "g".
I get where you're coming from in the idea, but it makes it sound like they are not specifically "Giant Cave Squigs" but some aberrant gigantic breed.
I have a cure for that, at the end of which you'll accept the squig feet just fine but will take exception to the humongous feet on all of GW's other models.
TBD wrote: Since Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together...
What leads you to that conclusion? The unit name is 'Mangler Squigs' as in there are two Mangler Squigs making up the unit. The Giant Cave Squig can be found on the old Skarsnik and Gobbla model and the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig model which shows the Giant Cave Squig is smaller than a single Mangler Squig.
The new battletome literally says Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together on page 31.
Lowercase "g".
I get where you're coming from in the idea, but it makes it sound like they are not specifically "Giant Cave Squigs" but some aberrant gigantic breed.
Honestly there is nothing there that makes it sound like they don't specifically mean "Giant Cave Squig". If something is aberrantly gigantic in GW's world they never fail to point these things out.
The outdated Finecast model on the website looks to be about the same size as the new plastic Squig Hopper Squigs and those aren't riding "Giant Cave Squigs", so that thing can hardly be called a giant with a straight face, come on now. GW should have retired it really but I guess they have too many littering the warehouses still
TBD, that sounds like an excellent conversion. If they're too big for the recommended base size, do it anyway. I would love to see giant squigs tottering off a small base, loonboss flailing nearby.
Whilst I was considering getting into Loonspite on the strength of the models alone, I did consider modelling the loon boss on mangler squig on a single mangler only, and using the other one as a basis of a converted squig lobba. (At$83 US it might justify the price with a little bit of conversion work and green stuff.)
Ultimately decided the art direction wasn't my thing, but tons of potential for conversion sin the range.
What I'm most excited about is the upcoming Skaven news. With all the references in the literature, Underworld models and art pieces like the one below, I'm hoping against hope that Skaven get more new kits than Beastmen got.
TBD wrote: Since Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together...
What leads you to that conclusion? The unit name is 'Mangler Squigs' as in there are two Mangler Squigs making up the unit. The Giant Cave Squig can be found on the old Skarsnik and Gobbla model and the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig model which shows the Giant Cave Squig is smaller than a single Mangler Squig.
The new battletome literally says Mangler Squigs are two Giant Cave Squigs chained together on page 31.
Lowercase "g".
I get where you're coming from in the idea, but it makes it sound like they are not specifically "Giant Cave Squigs" but some aberrant gigantic breed.
Honestly there is nothing there that makes it sound like they don't specifically mean "Giant Cave Squig". If something is aberrantly gigantic in GW's world they never fail to point these things out.
The outdated Finecast model on the website looks to be about the same size as the new plastic Squig Hopper Squigs and those aren't riding "Giant Cave Squigs", so that thing can hardly be called a giant with a straight face, come on now. GW should have retired it really but I guess they have too many littering the warehouses still
To be fair, they aren’t the only thing that’s just gotten bigger. Nagash got a lot bigger, Black Coach, I’m sure some other stuff too
To be fair, they aren’t the only thing that’s just gotten bigger. Nagash got a lot bigger, Black Coach, I’m sure some other stuff too
Well, the Coach is an odd case since it's a new unit that awkwardly has the same name as an old unit, but they are seperate models for seperate armies. GW logic.
To be fair, they aren’t the only thing that’s just gotten bigger. Nagash got a lot bigger, Black Coach, I’m sure some other stuff too
Well, the Coach is an odd case since it's a new unit that awkwardly has the same name as an old unit, but they are seperate models for seperate armies. GW logic.
There really hasn't been much scale creep in AoS when it comes to equivalent models. New duardin are the same size as 8th dwarfs, new grots the same size as old goblins, etc. What has gotten 'bigger' is more dynamic posing with larger bases and the introduction of entirely new models/races that are described as being massive in the fluff. Stormcast as the most prominent example are described as immense, demigod-like figures to the common folk.
NinthMusketeer wrote: There really hasn't been much scale creep in AoS when it comes to equivalent models. New duardin are the same size as 8th dwarfs, new grots the same size as old goblins, etc. What has gotten 'bigger' is more dynamic posing with larger bases and the introduction of entirely new models/races that are described as being massive in the fluff. Stormcast as the most prominent example are described as immense, demigod-like figures to the common folk.
Mostly-naked Kairic Acolytes are bigger than Chaos Warriors in full Chaos Plate.
Again described as big people in the fluff. They transmute into peak physical form, so it's like looking at a whole unit of bodybuilders. Also chaos warriors are... 6th ed I think? And there was certainly scale creep between that and 8th.
Any rumors on the Conan looking dudes from shadespire? I think? getting their own army? They look like they like the Dark Oath chief and warqueen that were released last year or the year before.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Again described as big people in the fluff. They transmute into peak physical form, so it's like looking at a whole unit of bodybuilders. Also chaos warriors are... 6th ed I think? And there was certainly scale creep between that and 8th.
It’s tricky as warriors are described as big too, so I think it is just jarring to see them be bigger.
But yeah fluff wise they are big.
I think many people are thinking Kairics are just mortal men so think it is an issue in size..
I do think warriors is one thing that would get bigger if they did them (don’t think they will though..).
If you look at the Khorne Warrior type replacements
There has been a lot of talk recently of gw only doing monobuild sculpts which is a fair criticism, so it is great to see that the rockgut troggoth kit seems to have a large amount of variety built into the kit. This picture gives a nice idea of what is possible.
I just hope they make some for other factions - I don't want to see Stormcast mimic Space Marines toooooooo much
Also I think these would be the first new AoS products under the new team to be released from FW (excluding the long term project that was the huge Chaos Dragon which if I recall right was sort of started under the very end of Old World)
Had a flick through the gloomspite book yesterday.
To be fair, it's a pretty solid and balanced army, so I'm glad they didn't get the night haunt treatment.
Some of the warscroll batallions are quick and easy to fill and help with some minor issues.
Also, battleline options everywhere.
Couldn't resist so I grabbed 3 box's of hoppers and 3 beards to begin with.
Just a shame there isn't a new loonboss on giant cave squig, current one is failcast.
Is it me or does the hair look a little unrefined both for Forge World and resin iin general?
Good to have options for Sigmarines, though.
Overread wrote: I just hope they make some for other factions - I don't want to see Stormcast mimic Space Marines toooooooo much
Also I think these would be the first new AoS products under the new team to be released from FW (excluding the long term project that was the huge Chaos Dragon which if I recall right was sort of started under the very end of Old World)
While more options is obviously better, I'd argue that Age of Sigmar doesn't currently have another faction that matches the Sigmarines uniformity. I'd even go so far as to say before Primaris, Marines had a lot of customization options available to them and the one thing that clearly set Sigmarines apart from Marines was their uniform styling as avatars of their god.
So yeah, while more options would be good, I think for Sigmarines it's actually a need rather than the want it is for other armies.
Jackal90 wrote: Had a flick through the gloomspite book yesterday.
To be fair, it's a pretty solid and balanced army, so I'm glad they didn't get the night haunt treatment.
Some of the warscroll batallions are quick and easy to fill and help with some minor issues.
Also, battleline options everywhere.
Couldn't resist so I grabbed 3 box's of hoppers and 3 beards to begin with.
Just a shame there isn't a new loonboss on giant cave squig, current one is failcast.
Jackal90 wrote: Had a flick through the gloomspite book yesterday.
To be fair, it's a pretty solid and balanced army, so I'm glad they didn't get the night haunt treatment.
Some of the warscroll batallions are quick and easy to fill and help with some minor issues.
Also, battleline options everywhere.
Couldn't resist so I grabbed 3 box's of hoppers and 3 beards to begin with.
Just a shame there isn't a new loonboss on giant cave squig, current one is failcast.
The current finecast does not use the original resin. The new stuff is way better. I like it more than FW resin, honestly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Geifer wrote: Is it me or does the hair look a little unrefined both for Forge World and resin iin general?
Good to have options for Sigmarines, though.
Overread wrote: I just hope they make some for other factions - I don't want to see Stormcast mimic Space Marines toooooooo much
Also I think these would be the first new AoS products under the new team to be released from FW (excluding the long term project that was the huge Chaos Dragon which if I recall right was sort of started under the very end of Old World)
While more options is obviously better, I'd argue that Age of Sigmar doesn't currently have another faction that matches the Sigmarines uniformity. I'd even go so far as to say before Primaris, Marines had a lot of customization options available to them and the one thing that clearly set Sigmarines apart from Marines was their uniform styling as avatars of their god.
So yeah, while more options would be good, I think for Sigmarines it's actually a need rather than the want it is for other armies.
The hair looks like it was modelled to match the hair on plastic minis, which is good since they will be cohesive/consistent once painted.
Jackal90 wrote: Had a flick through the gloomspite book yesterday.
To be fair, it's a pretty solid and balanced army, so I'm glad they didn't get the night haunt treatment.
Some of the warscroll batallions are quick and easy to fill and help with some minor issues.
Also, battleline options everywhere.
Couldn't resist so I grabbed 3 box's of hoppers and 3 beards to begin with.
Just a shame there isn't a new loonboss on giant cave squig, current one is failcast.
Jackal90 wrote: Had a flick through the gloomspite book yesterday.
To be fair, it's a pretty solid and balanced army, so I'm glad they didn't get the night haunt treatment.
Some of the warscroll batallions are quick and easy to fill and help with some minor issues.
Also, battleline options everywhere.
Couldn't resist so I grabbed 3 box's of hoppers and 3 beards to begin with.
Just a shame there isn't a new loonboss on giant cave squig, current one is failcast.
What was the problem with Nighthaunt?
There's a smattering of small imbalances like any book but the really big offenders are chainrasps and grimghasts which are OP by a good margin (especially chainrasps, possibly the best battleline in the game) and made worse by being part of LoN. They also fill the same role (or similar enough) to bladeghasts, harridans, glaivewraiths, and hexwraiths that they push those models to the fringe. The result is that those two units wreck the internal balance of the battletome.
But I echo the sentiment that the Gloomspite battletome is quite well balanced by GW standards and even reasonably so in a general sense. Beasts had solid balance as well, though not as good, so there seems to be an improving trend.
I might take notice of Forge World again after their years of releasing slightly different Space Marine parts ad nauseam.
Well, the Stormcast heads are supposedly fully compatible with Space Marines, so . . .
Compatible how? First set above uses flat sockets, the second shallow thin round, none of it looks even remotely compatible with SM deep wide rounds without lots of resin filing and generous GS stuffing, and that's without even considering necks on both ranges have very different style...
I might take notice of Forge World again after their years of releasing slightly different Space Marine parts ad nauseam.
Well, the Stormcast heads are supposedly fully compatible with Space Marines, so . . .
Compatible how? First set above uses flat sockets, the second shallow thin round, none of it looks even remotely compatible with SM deep wide rounds without lots of resin filing and generous GS stuffing, and that's without even considering necks on both ranges have very different style...
The socket for Stormcast is exactly the same as the socket on SM models. If these don't work with SM, then they aren't going to work with Stormcast. (Also, I was trying to make a joke, so maybe lighten up a little?)
I used plastic Space Marine heads on my Stormcast, by using a spherical cutting bit from my dremel to make the Stormcast neck hollows larger (I used the bit in a pin vice and just rotated ot slowly, as using it in an actual high-speed dremel would have destroyed the model even on the lowest setting). It was slim pickings to find SM heads without lots of bionics, though. A couple of them even needed a resculpted ear to replace the comms device after I cut if off. Ready-made Forgeworld alternatives would be nice for variety.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The current finecast does not use the original resin. The new stuff is way better. I like it more than FW resin, honestly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Geifer wrote: Is it me or does the hair look a little unrefined both for Forge World and resin iin general?
Good to have options for Sigmarines, though.
Overread wrote: I just hope they make some for other factions - I don't want to see Stormcast mimic Space Marines toooooooo much
Also I think these would be the first new AoS products under the new team to be released from FW (excluding the long term project that was the huge Chaos Dragon which if I recall right was sort of started under the very end of Old World)
While more options is obviously better, I'd argue that Age of Sigmar doesn't currently have another faction that matches the Sigmarines uniformity. I'd even go so far as to say before Primaris, Marines had a lot of customization options available to them and the one thing that clearly set Sigmarines apart from Marines was their uniform styling as avatars of their god.
So yeah, while more options would be good, I think for Sigmarines it's actually a need rather than the want it is for other armies.
The hair looks like it was modelled to match the hair on plastic minis, which is good since they will be cohesive/consistent once painted.
Good point. As I don't own any unhelmeted Sigmarines I occasionally forget they aren't all bald and screaming Space Marines.
I just noticed a few of the Orruk kits have 'Sold Out Online' status on GW's website. I'm especially miffed that the Boar Boyz kit is gone... Could they be getting re-packaged?
NidLifeCrisis wrote: I just noticed a few of the Orruk kits have 'Sold Out Online' status on GW's website. I'm especially miffed that the Boar Boyz kit is gone... Could they be getting re-packaged?
Possibly. There is a rumour that the Ironjawz are getting a new book. The Greenskins could well be getting folded in as the Spiderfang were with the Moonclan.
Funny enough I already have a Finecast copy of that Black Orc Big Boss; he came in a ziplock bag with 4 other pre-built Black Orcs from a bitz seller at Gencon last year for ten bucks. Even in Finecast, that's not particularly bad for 2 dollars, when i remember how much he used to cost in the package!
Funny things going on with the availability of Warscroll cards, too. In the EU the Nighthaunt and Gloomspite are sold out and all the rest are just straight up deleted.
lord_blackfang wrote: Funny things going on with the availability of Warscroll cards, too. In the EU the Nighthaunt and Gloomspite are sold out and all the rest are just straight up deleted.
I believe warscroll cards are one of those splash items that when they sell through the initial print run then they're gone.
Ironjaws are ugly garbage, and overpriced. Savage Orcs are fine, but they are not the same thing as traditional GW orcs. Ach, I will not post anymore about it but I am honestly shocked that GW would axe basic Orcs like this. And the Common Goblins are already gone.
Da Boss wrote: Ironjaws are ugly garbage, and overpriced. Savage Orcs are fine, but they are not the same thing as traditional GW orcs. Ach, I will not post anymore about it but I am honestly shocked that GW would axe basic Orcs like this. And the Common Goblins are already gone.
Ironjaws are objectively better models than the current "orruks". You're entitled to your opinion but if they're axing the crappy orruk models then it's probably to replace them with something better. I just wish they'd redo the current 40k boyz too. They're the weak link in the current ork range and I say that as someone with 100 of them.
Da Boss wrote: Ironjaws are ugly garbage, and overpriced. Savage Orcs are fine, but they are not the same thing as traditional GW orcs. Ach, I will not post anymore about it but I am honestly shocked that GW would axe basic Orcs like this. And the Common Goblins are already gone.
Ironjaws are objectively better models than the current "orruks". You're entitled to your opinion but if they're axing the crappy orruk models then it's probably to replace them with something better. I just wish they'd redo the current 40k boyz too. They're the weak link in the current ork range and I say that as someone with 100 of them.
Personally, I feel the Ork boyz kit still holds up well, and I say that as someone who has avoided collecting entire 40k armies due to the quality of some of their core unit choices against modern kits (CSM especially).
They could definitely redo them, but I'd really hope they keep the same basic proportions and character, just with more/new options. I know some people dislike the poses, but for me that is simply the pose Orks have, they aren't supposed to conform to human anatomical norms.
Da Boss wrote: Ironjaws are ugly garbage, and overpriced. Savage Orcs are fine, but they are not the same thing as traditional GW orcs. Ach, I will not post anymore about it but I am honestly shocked that GW would axe basic Orcs like this. And the Common Goblins are already gone.
Ironjaws are objectively better models than the current "orruks". You're entitled to your opinion but if they're axing the crappy orruk models then it's probably to replace them with something better. I just wish they'd redo the current 40k boyz too. They're the weak link in the current ork range and I say that as someone with 100 of them.
I don't think the word objectively has any place in this discussion, but you are also entitled to your opinion. I hate the Ironjawz, I think they look terrible for a Fantasy game.
Da Boss wrote: Ironjaws are ugly garbage, and overpriced. Savage Orcs are fine, but they are not the same thing as traditional GW orcs. Ach, I will not post anymore about it but I am honestly shocked that GW would axe basic Orcs like this. And the Common Goblins are already gone.
Ironjaws are objectively better models than the current "orruks". You're entitled to your opinion but if they're axing the crappy orruk models then it's probably to replace them with something better. I just wish they'd redo the current 40k boyz too. They're the weak link in the current ork range and I say that as someone with 100 of them.
I don't think the word objectively has any place in this discussion, but you are also entitled to your opinion. I hate the Ironjawz, I think they look terrible for a Fantasy game.
I second this opinion.
As much as I love what is now the "classic" orcs (and goblin) range, I can't stand the Ironjawz. I hate the armor design, the weapons, well... everything.
From the day they were realeased I feared that GW would axe the older range... Looks like this day has come.
Sad indeed.
The bright yellow doesn't do 'em any favours, but apart from that they look exactly like whatever Orcs in full plate armour were called. There's one of them in the Made to Order list.
I genuinely don't get how folk can look at the Ironjawz and say "those are basically the same as Orcs". They have radically different anatomy - Orcs are modelled on great apes, the Orruks look like hunchbacked bodybuilders with rickets.
The detailing on the newer kit is obviously sharper, but Ironjawz have about as much in common with an Orc as a Gobbo does.
Yodhrin wrote: I genuinely don't get how folk can look at the Ironjawz and say "those are basically the same as Orcs". They have radically different anatomy - Orcs are modelled on great apes, the Orruks look like hunchbacked bodybuilders with rickets.
The detailing on the newer kit is obviously sharper, but Ironjawz have about as much in common with an Orc as a Gobbo does.
The change in anatomy was probably because AoS kits are more dynamic. The gorilla anatomy is fine but Orcs are supposed to move more like humans. Articulating the older proportions to the degree needed was probably more trouble than it was worth.
The new kits also lack the awful flat shoulder joint. Always makes me laugh when people praise the old kits for being poseable.
That black orc is pretty sweet. I'll probably grab that and a few shamans. I just got Azhag yesterday, so I'm not going to consider the Wyvren. I like the Azhag sculpt more anyway and I don't think you'd ever run 2 Wyvrens.
I think the Ironjawz kits look a lot better, as does our gaming group. Actually this is the first I've encountered of anyone who thinks the old ones look better.
I don't mind the classic Ape look but I feel that was partly a restriction of having to rank up your models due to square bases and how regiments worked backed then. With round bases freeing up space, as others have said, it gives more posing options for the models and I personally find the Ironjawz sculpts fantastic. I'm sad to see the old Greenskin range go if it is permanent, rather than them consolidating them either under Ironjawz or with regular gobbos to recreate the old Orcs and Goblins theme, but if it makes more space to expand Ironjawz I'm okay for that. If anything, I'd like more Ardboyz options since they seem more likely to use different types of weaponry than the less-crafting oriented brutes. It'd be great to see Ruglud's armoured orcs return with Ardboys with big crossbows or some other forms of weaponry.
Well I do prefer the older kit, I agree that design backs to 6th ed WH for the most part,
but I can't stand the anatomy used on the newer brutes and above all the armor
and weapon design.
For people who actually like the new style, more power to them.
I actually like the standard Orcs and Ardboyz (or Black Orcs if you are older like me) over the Brutes. I always thought the armor on the Brutes looks less like beaten metal and more like some sort of wierd crustacean shell strapped on.
But who am I kidding, I still have some of the old plastic Arrer Boys, and I love 'em.
Yodhrin wrote: I genuinely don't get how folk can look at the Ironjawz and say "those are basically the same as Orcs". They have radically different anatomy - Orcs are modelled on great apes, the Orruks look like hunchbacked bodybuilders with rickets.
The detailing on the newer kit is obviously sharper, but Ironjawz have about as much in common with an Orc as a Gobbo does.
The change in anatomy was probably because AoS kits are more dynamic. The gorilla anatomy is fine but Orcs are supposed to move more like humans. Articulating the older proportions to the degree needed was probably more trouble than it was worth.
The new kits also lack the awful flat shoulder joint. Always makes me laugh when people praise the old kits for being poseable.
Err, who says Orcs are meant to move like humans? Quite the reverse in my experience, the fiction is full of descriptions of their "loping gait" and apeish proportions, and the depictions of them in games follow that. In fact, a great example of how you can update the "classic" look very nicely is the second Warhammer Online cinematic trailer.
Regardless, it's a matter of taste, and for me unlike the more modern version of the classic "Chaos barbarian" style, the modern version of Orcs misses the mark.
AegisGrimm wrote: I actually like the standard Orcs and Ardboyz (or Black Orcs if you are older like me) over the Brutes. I always thought the armor on the Brutes looks less like beaten metal and more like some sort of wierd crustacean shell strapped on.
But who am I kidding, I still have some of the old plastic Arrer Boys, and I love 'em.
I like to think of Ironjawz as some type of Mok'nathal like in Warcraft, a kinda of hybrid style between Ogres and Orcs.
In my mind (And in the fluff to be honest) they are a completely different type of greenskin and they basically are just like black orcs where compared with normal orcs, and snotlings are to gnoblas and to hobgoblins and to goblins.
Galas wrote: I like to think of Ironjawz as some type of Mok'nathal like in Warcraft, a kinda of hybrid style between Ogres and Orcs.
In my mind (And in the fluff to be honest) they are a completely different type of greenskin and they basically are just like black orcs where compared with normal orcs, and snotlings are to gnoblas and to hobgoblins and to goblins.
Yeah, they are explicitly a different type of orc. Someone made a goblin to regular orc comparison earlier and that is a largely accurate analogy (in physical terms), further that is the point.
As much as I like both kits I did have a blast doing my Ironjawz last year. I think the kit is quite versatile and the detail is very sharp. All preferences aside its always a shame when kits go OOP. Heck I still love the old bigger plastic Night gobbos!
Since incredulity was expressed, I will briefly list what I do not like about Ironjawz. I guess it is pointless to argue about taste in miniatures, since it is subjective, but just explaining my POV
1. Scale creep. I hate that Ironjawz are so much bigger than normal Orcs. Orcs are already huge, hulking brutes in Fantasy. Upscaling them to the size of small ogres seems pointless and excessive to me when we already have Ogres, and it also seems like one upmanship in the most crude and blatant way.
2. The armour. The armour on these guys is ridiculous. Black Orcs are already an almost ludicrously over armoured orc, these guys take it to a whole nother level with these gigantic plates and nearly every inch of them covered in plate armour. I think it looks awful, and is visually samey and not interesting at all. It also looks very much like how 40K mega armour is designed visually, and I think it just looks utterly out of place in a fantasy game.
3. The monsters. I think the gore gruntas and mawbeast look awful. The mawbeast looks so badly proportioned they had to make up some bs background reason as to why it can fly, and the gore gruntas are so blatantly "Oh, you thought Boar Boys were cool? Well LOOKIT DIS!" that it is nauseating.
4. Not entirely fair, but dear god the colour scheme. That bright yellow on the armour plates is a terrible choice and makes the models look god damn awful. Whose idea was that mess?
The army is visually not interesting, lacks variety, and is a poor replacement for proper orcs.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think the Ironjawz kits look a lot better, as does our gaming group. Actually this is the first I've encountered of anyone who thinks the old ones look better.
Well, count a second then. I like the old orcs quite a bit more than the new Ironjawz scultps, in general.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Da Boss wrote: 2. The armour. The armour on these guys is ridiculous. Black Orcs are already an almost ludicrously over armoured orc, these guys take it to a whole nother level with these gigantic plates and nearly every inch of them covered in plate armour. I think it looks awful, and is visually samey and not interesting at all. It also looks very much like how 40K mega armour is designed visually, and I think it just looks utterly out of place in a fantasy game.
Actually, that's the fun bit...
(Images by TheDraconicLord)
They do wear a <removed - please do not circumvent the language filter> of armor, but only in the front... they basically wear heavily armored aprons xD
Da Boss wrote: Since incredulity was expressed, I will briefly list what I do not like about Ironjawz. I guess it is pointless to argue about taste in miniatures, since it is subjective, but just explaining my POV
1. Scale creep. I hate that Ironjawz are so much bigger than normal Orcs. Orcs are already huge, hulking brutes in Fantasy. Upscaling them to the size of small ogres seems pointless and excessive to me when we already have Ogres, and it also seems like one upmanship in the most crude and blatant way.
2. The armour. The armour on these guys is ridiculous. Black Orcs are already an almost ludicrously over armoured orc, these guys take it to a whole nother level with these gigantic plates and nearly every inch of them covered in plate armour. I think it looks awful, and is visually samey and not interesting at all. It also looks very much like how 40K mega armour is designed visually, and I think it just looks utterly out of place in a fantasy game.
The part that gets to me about the armor (and a lot of the heads), is it looks like pieces are just stuck on with glue. Which admittedly is literally the case, but a well made model shouldn't look that way. There should be natural attachment points and joins that look good, not just bits stuck together in an approximation of armor, hanging on in defiance of gravity and sense. They just look awful.
This isn't unique to these models by any means, but it stands out given the relative young age of the kit and what GW is capable of today rather than in the 80s/90s.
As fascinating as this tangent is can we please stick to News and rumours for Age of Sigmar. Feel free to create a new thread to carry on the other discussion.
Thanks,
ingtaer.
Future War Cultist wrote: What exactly is the lore behind the Ironjawz? They’re orruks yes, but what kind? Are they spawned as Ironjawz or do they fight to become them?
Looking at that design, I’m wondering if High Elf bits would be suitable for Free People conversations. Scale mail, pointy shoulder pads, more high fantasy than the empire. Maybe?
Future War Cultist wrote: What exactly is the lore behind the Ironjawz? They’re orruks yes, but what kind? Are they spawned as Ironjawz or do they fight to become them?
aracersss wrote: from new WD preview ... new look at free people?
It's just a modelling article, like the one from January when it was talking about modelling your army/terrain from the Realm of Fire. February is the Metal's turn.
Don't expect any new miniatures there, just hints to help you give a theme for your army with painting/converting.
We're talking about AoS. GW is still chilly with this game, so I wouldn't bet much money on basing kits/upgrade sprues specifically for Realms. If it was for 40k, it would be more likely.
They seem pretty committed to the game to me. They just updated almost all the finecast Squig models and released a ton of new plastic kits for the gobbos.
Sarouan wrote: We're talking about AoS. GW is still chilly with this game, so I wouldn't bet much money on basing kits/upgrade sprues specifically for Realms. If it was for 40k, it would be more likely.
This is objectively wrong. GW had a ton of releases last year for AoS, and has already started several previews and a large release this year.
GW is quite committed to AoS at this point, and it clearly shows.
Sarouan wrote: We're talking about AoS. GW is still chilly with this game, so I wouldn't bet much money on basing kits/upgrade sprues specifically for Realms. If it was for 40k, it would be more likely.
The customer base could easily be described as chilly , at least initially (personally, I was fundamentally opposed), and GW was rather cautious with releases for the first 8 months (Sigmarines, Blood blooders and more and more Sigmarines, then just reboxing lizardmen), but that's long gone.
Especially with '2nd edition' AoS, GW has been happily crazed about the property and has gone a bit mad (in a good way) with it. Pinned down the setting, got into sketching out places and people (though the latter needs more work) and gone all out on several of the newer releases. Shadespire is even functioning as a gateway property for people to dabble in a small band of models to try out an army's aesthetics and painting potential.
Truthfully, they're doing a lot more with AoS than they did with Fantasy Battles. It got to the point they were just turning over books with a few new kits with no direction or idea what to do with them, which led to things like Wood Elves in the 'time out' box for over a decade. AoS elves have a lot more depth and thought attached to them, even with the superfluous 'a' attached to their noun.
No, they're still chilly with AoS. Compare with the number of releases made for 40k and AoS -it's definitely not the same. For example, Kill Team has its own separate release with extensive (and interesting rules). What do we have for AoS Skirmish ? A mere update in the White Dwarf, that's hardly interesting in itself since it's just a few modifications here and there without any great advancement. I hoped for something like Hinterlands from Bottle, and was really disappointed with this. And from what I saw from the campaign rules in the february preview for the White Dwarf, it's just the old campaign from the first edition of skirmish. You can expect there won't be any special box for this "new update" like for Kill Team - terrain bundles, and so on.
Sure, they did a great job with the recent goblins. But do you remember what we had for Beast of Chaos ? It's a bit difficult to understand where exactly GW want to go with AoS. The background is evolving, I admit it, but it still feels like something is missing. The timeline is really rough, the realms are a lot of emptyness begging to be filled with the player's own story, and so on. So far, what I feel we have is merely a few sand boxes here and there, and still something that is slowly building.
I do believe the burn from AoS's first launch is still there. And sometimes, I don't feel like the studio has a lot of love for AoS background. What is found in the battletomes barely scratch the surface, we need more details. Competitive players don't care about that, of course, but the narrative players are hungry for more. IMHO.
40k on the other hand is really doing well, as I feel it. AoS is still building, in comparison. You can see as well the space devoted to unit's background is sensibly smaller than the one for 40k units (AoS units usually have several units on the same page, and don't have as many details as in 40k's codex. This is especially showing in the Maggotkin battletome when you read the description for demons and then the same demons in the Chaos Demon Codex for 40k - much more details for 40k even though they're actually the same demons in both universes !).
I don't expect any new basing kit for AoS before a very, very long time. What we will have, though, are modelling articles in the White Dwarf - but always using existing sprues and giving hints for conversions, nothing more.
By the way, did you notice the squig dice are already on Last Chance to Buy on the GW Website ? Barely the month of release is passed and it's already out. Another sign that what is made for AoS doesn't last as much as for 40k.
Kanluwen wrote: Putting it quite bluntly, Skirmish with AoS just doesn't really work out well. Path to Glory is, IMO, far superior.
Dice and stuff like that going to "last chance to buy" is a joke to point at. You know that's not something GW produces themselves, right?
Yes, and since it's on "last chance to buy" so fast really shows they didn't make a lot of them. That's why I say they're still chilly with AoS products - they don't expect to sell as much as 40k stuff.
Reason why Skirmish doesn't really work out well is because what they made is just a quick "copy and paste" from the first edition of AoS Skirmish rules that was sold as a (small) separate book. It wasn't thought as a separate game like Kill Team. And the reason why is because GW doesn't seem to want to put specific ressources like they did for Kill Team to do something really great for the skirmish game version of AoS.
So we have a White Dwarf update, and that's all. Which I think is sad, because there is a potential to make something really interesting - like "Mordheim in AoS" with specific rules akind to Kill Team/Necromunda...GW can do that, they already proved it.
Sarouan wrote: Yes, and since it's on "last chance to buy" so fast really shows they didn't make a lot of them. That's why I say they're still chilly with AoS products - they don't expect to sell as much as 40k stuff.
Or maybe they sold so well that all they have is a handful left. One is just as likely as the other.
Sarouan wrote: Yes, and since it's on "last chance to buy" so fast really shows they didn't make a lot of them. That's why I say they're still chilly with AoS products - they don't expect to sell as much as 40k stuff.
Or maybe they sold so well that all they have is a handful left. One is just as likely as the other.
Still not making the Skirmish update in the White Dwarf better.
But hey, I admit I put my expectations too high here. It's clear GW doesn't want to make a version of Kill Team release for AoS for now.
I don't think the comparison of skirmish to kill team should be taken as representative of how 'chilly' GW is towards AoS. Better to count the number of new kits released in the last year for each. Considering we know 40k generates more sales by a fair margin, even close to a similar number of model releases would mean GW is pushing AoS pretty hard.
GW is being smart with Skirmish in AoS.
They are releasing it to White Dwarf so that its a product for their current customers. Building interest and getting people playing it who are already gamers and customers of the brand and copying Killteam in that regard.
They are giving the customers who are asking for a Fantasy Killteam a Killteam game.
I fully expect that, in the future, once GW has released most or all of the Battletomes for AoS we will see them do a commercial release of Skirmish like they have for Killteam. At that stage the focus shifts from existing to new customers. You do that then because then the new customers who get into a Skirmish army can then easily follow it through with a Battletome purchase and expand.
Right now there are still factions with no Battletome and factions with very uncertain futures (eg most of the Aelves). For those factions it would be a waste and a poor marketing move to advertise skirmish heavily to new gamers and then have them get attached to armies or factions that GW is going to drop or change or not support for a very long time.
That's how I see it. And yes AoS is going to get a big year of new kits in many armies; which makes sense. Fantasy got ignored for a long while, leaving it with a heavier portion of older kits, out dated designs and resin and even quite a high proportion of metal models.
In contrast many 40K armies are right now quite well developed. Even armies like Necrons have a wide variety of models and choices. Sure Genestealer Cults and Sisters of Battle need updates and additions; but by and large most 40K armies are at a point where it would likely be better to revise sculpts and releases the odd model than needing to release waves of new models.
AoS also has a lot of new factions and fractured factions so there's pressure there to revise and update and add to them.
Overread wrote: GW is being smart with Skirmish in AoS.
They are releasing it to White Dwarf so that its a product for their current customers. Building interest and getting people playing it who are already gamers and customers of the brand and copying Killteam in that regard.
They are giving the customers who are asking for a Fantasy Killteam a Killteam game.
Did you even read the rules in the White Dwarf ? It's nothing like Kill Team. It's barely an update from the previous Skirmish rules that were sold in a small book, and that were already at that time quite a disappointment.
So no, it's not a product for their AoS customers so that they have their fantasy version of Kill Team. It's just a "hey here are what we already wrote before in the previous edition and with the 2.0 stamp on it". The main "update" is how you build your list - champions and other previous "free updates" aren't free anymore. Frankly speaking, that's something anyone can come up in five minutes, when you already have the first edition of AoS Skirmish.
I fully expect that, in the future, once GW has released most or all of the Battletomes for AoS we will see them do a commercial release of Skirmish like they have for Killteam. At that stage the focus shifts from existing to new customers. You do that then because then the new customers who get into a Skirmish army can then easily follow it through with a Battletome purchase and expand.
Right now there are still factions with no Battletome and factions with very uncertain futures (eg most of the Aelves). For those factions it would be a waste and a poor marketing move to advertise skirmish heavily to new gamers and then have them get attached to armies or factions that GW is going to drop or change or not support for a very long time.
What you say makes no sense. Why ? Because when you make a Kill Team or Necromunda-like game, with their own specific set of rules that doesn't have to be a complete copy and paste from their main game, that argument is irrelevant. You just make the game with the current status, and then update it when changes are made when it's coming. If you're saying that's changing "in a very long time", it's even more an argument against your reasoning. You always sell for what is here now, that's how capitalism works.
Besides, nothing stops GW from making the rules/factions for what is sure to be kept, and leave the others for later. After all, Kill Team doesn't give rules for Adepta Sororitas warbands right now. Doesn't mean they won't do something when, say, the new plastic miniatures will be there. And I'm not even talking about the extensions that were made so far.
That's how I see it. And yes AoS is going to get a big year of new kits in many armies; which makes sense. Fantasy got ignored for a long while, leaving it with a heavier portion of older kits, out dated designs and resin and even quite a high proportion of metal models.
In contrast many 40K armies are right now quite well developed. Even armies like Necrons have a wide variety of models and choices. Sure Genestealer Cults and Sisters of Battle need updates and additions; but by and large most 40K armies are at a point where it would likely be better to revise sculpts and releases the odd model than needing to release waves of new models.
AoS also has a lot of new factions and fractured factions so there's pressure there to revise and update and add to them.
Yes, I agree with the fact that AoS still has a lot of development ahead. And to me, it means some more years before it has a stable setting. But what they have done with Skirmish here is barely a bone thrown to true Skirmish fans, that's what I'm saying.
Overread wrote: GW is being smart with Skirmish in AoS.
They are releasing it to White Dwarf so that its a product for their current customers. Building interest and getting people playing it who are already gamers and customers of the brand and copying Killteam in that regard.
They are giving the customers who are asking for a Fantasy Killteam a Killteam game.
Did you even read the rules in the White Dwarf ? It's nothing like Kill Team. It's barely an update from the previous Skirmish rules that were sold in a small book, and that were already at that time quite a disappointment.
So no, it's not a product for their AoS customers so that they have their fantasy version of Kill Team. It's just a "hey here are what we already wrote before in the previous edition and with the 2.0 stamp on it". The main "update" is how you build your list - champions and other previous "free updates" aren't free anymore. Frankly speaking, that's something anyone can come up in five minutes, when you already have the first edition of AoS Skirmish.
I fully expect that, in the future, once GW has released most or all of the Battletomes for AoS we will see them do a commercial release of Skirmish like they have for Killteam. At that stage the focus shifts from existing to new customers. You do that then because then the new customers who get into a Skirmish army can then easily follow it through with a Battletome purchase and expand.
Right now there are still factions with no Battletome and factions with very uncertain futures (eg most of the Aelves). For those factions it would be a waste and a poor marketing move to advertise skirmish heavily to new gamers and then have them get attached to armies or factions that GW is going to drop or change or not support for a very long time.
What you say makes no sense. Why ? Because when you make a Kill Team or Necromunda-like game, with their own specific set of rules that doesn't have to be a complete copy and paste from their main game, that argument is irrelevant.
Killteam and Necromunda are totally different. Necromunda uses its own models in a totally unique setting which is not compatible with 40K armies in general. There's a few exceptions - eg cultists - but by and large there's very little cross over between the games directly.
A person doesn't start a House Goliath gang and steadily add to it until they can start using them in a 40K battle.
Killteam, and Skirmish, however build right into the larger game. They present a cheap buy-in product that lets someone play a game with only one or two boxes of models. The idea is that the new player starts out with that small investment, getting past the "its so expensive to get started" argument. Steadily they are encouraged to buy new models until they've likely got enough for a 500point 40K game. By which point they are now invested into the game, they are caught by the lore and the social aspects and the local club scene and there's a greater chance that they will continue to invest and grow their army into a 1K and 2K and beyond.
Skirmish would aim to do the very same, however right now many of the armies for AoS don't have a Battletome and don't have a set future. Hence why the update is currently in White Dwarf not a new book. GW is pitching to current customers now and will likely pitch to new ones later. They might just go with a new Skirmish book or could go all out and go full Killteam style with cards and dedicated packs.
The thing is, right now AoS doesn't need Skirmish like that; it doesn't need a whole separate game when they are still releasing models, armies and Battletomes and setting the game straight. Hence why you're not seeing a more detailed and full Skirmish release.
Like I said give them one or two years or so to focus on AoS like they have with 40K and I'm sure we'll see a similar pattern Killteam for 40K didn't come out early, and when it did GW was already committed to supporting ALL 40K armies with a Codex. Sure some were not yet supported, but GW has confirmed that they will be in the very near future. AoS armies and factions are still not confirmed- heck only in the last two weeks we've lost the bulk of the Greenskins kits from the GW store and several have now reappeared on a "last chance" week. Now granted GW did mess up because Greenskins Getting started DID feature on the skirmish splashpage in White Dwarf so there is some confusion there; but its a very solid example of why they don't want to be getting loads of new gamers into the game only to kick their army and models out, if not from Skirmish, then from the larger game.
GW wants you to advance from killteam/skirmish into 40K/AoS; or at the very least if you remain with Skirmish/Killteam, then remain investing in models and terrain kits.
Killteam and Necromunda are totally different. Necromunda uses its own models in a totally unique setting which is not compatible with 40K armies in general. There's a few exceptions - eg cultists - but by and large there's very little cross over between the games directly.
A person doesn't start a House Goliath gang and steadily add to it until they can start using them in a 40K battle.
You jumped on the Necromunda keyword out of context of what I was saying and completely went in another way.
AoS Skirmish update in the White Dwarf is NOTHING like Kill Team. Here, it doesn't benefit the same work than GW did on Kill Team as a separate product, in no way.That you keep argumenting that way just show you're closing your eyes on purpose here so that you don't see what's the problem.
They might just go with a new Skirmish book or could go all out and go full Killteam style with cards and dedicated packs.
If they did a White Dwarf update ? No, they won't. Not before a long time. If GW wanted to release a Kill Team scale line of products for AoS Skirmish, they wouldn't release a White Dwarf update. They would just launch the product.
The thing is, right now AoS doesn't need Skirmish like that; it doesn't need a whole separate game when they are still releasing models, armies and Battletomes and setting the game straight. Hence why you're not seeing a more detailed and full Skirmish release.
That's just how you feel. However, you can't deny the difference of ressources spent on that very specific line. Indeed, AoS Skirmish is a way to introduce the player to "regular" AoS, and also a way to "start small" your collection. If you remember well, the previous editions of Kill Team and AoS Skirmish were similar in their release : both barely skeletons from their main game, in a small book sold separately and pretty much nothing else. Then GW got the artillery out for KIll Team and really worked the rules as a separate game system, even if similar to 40k, but with sufficient differences to make it a game on its own.
That's not Skirmish's treatment, and I suspect it's more about GW not believing it's worth it than anything else. If they thought it would, that's not the White Dwarf they would choose.
GW wants you to advance from killteam/skirmish into 40K/AoS; or at the very least if you remain with Skirmish/Killteam, then remain investing in models and terrain kits.
Of course they want it. It's just that they don't have that much faith in AoS than they have in 40k.
Mind you, the true Skirmish fans don't want to wait for 2 years to have a "good enough" game. They want it now. And GW can deliver it now. They just choose not to do it, and instead we have a half-assed update in the White Dwarf. Too bad.
I have to disagree purely through the amount of plastic kits that have been released. Look at the Gloomspite, that was a big amount of plastic and not cheap to produce for a "chilly" game. And from what i've seen they've sold like hot cakes.
As to killteam, why does AoS even need it? It works perfectly well at lower levels and if we can get rules for skirmish without an expensive box then all the better.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I have to disagree purely through the amount of plastic kits that have been released. Look at the Gloomspite, that was a big amount of plastic and not cheap to produce for a "chilly" game. And from what i've seen they've sold like hot cakes.
As to killteam, why does AoS even need it? It works perfectly well at lower levels and if we can get rules for skirmish without an expensive box then all the better.
While I can't speak for everyone, the online store for gloomspite stuff has been bouncing in and out of stock.
My 2 local GW stores get fresh stock in and are sold out within hours.
They are selling like mad.
It's also pulled me back to AoS aswell with a hefty order lol.
Plus there is Shadespire. It isn't really the same as a Skirmish equivalent, but it does show heavy investment in the setting with warbands that are cross-compatible with the main game.
There are more plastic warbands than plastic Necromunda kits, for example.
As to killteam, why does AoS even need it? It works perfectly well at lower levels and if we can get rules for skirmish without an expensive box then all the better.
40K has had Killteam in one form or another, for years. However it was part of the Big Rule book. Basically it was a set of rules marketed toward people who had already made the choice to invest in a 40K army.
Modern Killteam is its own product and is marketed toward those who look at 40K and go "I'd like to, but its so expensive" It's designed to tap right into the small skirmish game market which has grown over the last few years. Serving not just new fans but existing ones too, who might want a faster game when they don't have time for a big 40K match.
Skirmish for AoS would be the very same. Right now its part of the established structure, so its tempting 40K players to try AoS; its providing a faster smaller game for AoS fans and its sitting there building interest. Skirmish of the future as a separate product I think will come; at which point it will be just like Killteam. Right there and its own thing marketed toward new wargamers and those new to AoS as a cheaper way to buy into the range.
Killteam is doing this right now and it stands to reason that once GW has fleshed out AoS to have more functional and complete factions; they will likely launch a more detailed an indepth Skirmish with its own book, not just keeping it within White Dwarf. Right now they are using the White Dwarf rules to give it some attention and keep some interest up.
That's how I see it. I don't see GW pushing a more detailed and dedicated Skirmish game until such time as they have more AoS battletomes out. We already know, from their last financial report, that this year is going to be a big year where they are realising a series of major investments; which I suspect is a lot more models for AoS. Both new armies and revamping/updating and enhancing existing ones. 2019 is going to be a huge year for AoS; with 40K I think taking a back seat save for Sisters of Battle and Genestealer Cultists.
That's how I see it. I don't see GW pushing a more detailed and dedicated Skirmish game until such time as they have more AoS battletomes out. We already know, from their last financial report, that this year is going to be a big year where they are realising a series of major investments; which I suspect is a lot more models for AoS. Both new armies and revamping/updating and enhancing existing ones. 2019 is going to be a huge year for AoS; with 40K I think taking a back seat save for Sisters of Battle and Genestealer Cultists.
Unfortunately the "new" skirmish is just as broken as before, in exactly the same obvious ways because they were never fixed. The White Dwarf update is really just a reskin to a new realm, with champs and specialists costing +5 points. Hinterlands is still a better way to play Skirmish, as it fixes Mortal Wounds (and already used the "new" way of using pitched battle points), and from what I see in some of the previews, will still be the only way to have true warband skill/injury advancement even after the next months WD comes out.
It literally looks as if they split the old Skirmish booklet in half to make two releases, which still needs non-GW rules (and by a guy they now have on their freaking staff, no less!) to really be a fulfilling campaign game.
That's how I see it. I don't see GW pushing a more detailed and dedicated Skirmish game until such time as they have more AoS battletomes out. We already know, from their last financial report, that this year is going to be a big year where they are realising a series of major investments; which I suspect is a lot more models for AoS. Both new armies and revamping/updating and enhancing existing ones. 2019 is going to be a huge year for AoS; with 40K I think taking a back seat save for Sisters of Battle and Genestealer Cultists.
Probably Chaos too.
Definitely Chaos if we're getting Slaanesh. That'll happen in both systems.
I don't think 40k will get to feel that back seat all that much, in spite of any attention Age of Sigmar gets. Remember that the big summer thing last year was AoS 2nd ed. Traditionally that means we'll get something 40k to fill that slot this year. With continued releases for Kill Team, Chaos probably of two colors, Sisters and Genestealers 40k will get plenty of attention.
Honestly in spite of the big start goblins gave AoS, I'm not sure we'll see all that many brand new armies. Call it a hunch, but I think GW tried to buy itself some time with endless spells, making updates to existing armies desirable for their owners and cheap, easy and convenient for GW.
Also let's not forget that GW did not originally plan to have Sisters in the release slot they now occupy, so any big end of the year release they might have planned for 2019, that might have been an AoS release, is rearranged because of Sisters now.
That said, if they release a full Darkoath army I pretty much don't care how much or little attention Age of Sigmar gets otherwise.
Honestly in spite of the big start goblins gave AoS, I'm not sure we'll see all that many brand new armies. Call it a hunch, but I think GW tried to buy itself some time with endless spells, making updates to existing armies desirable for their owners and cheap, easy and convenient for GW.
Even without Endless Spells a lot of the armies still don't have Battletomes and could be easily done with just a book release. Plus older Tomes can be updated with allegiance abilities and the like. So I think post 2.0 there's a wealth of material to keep GW busy in updating and in gamers wanting those updates even without the Endless Spells being added into the mix.
Honestly in spite of the big start goblins gave AoS, I'm not sure we'll see all that many brand new armies. Call it a hunch, but I think GW tried to buy itself some time with endless spells, making updates to existing armies desirable for their owners and cheap, easy and convenient for GW.
Even without Endless Spells a lot of the armies still don't have Battletomes and could be easily done with just a book release. Plus older Tomes can be updated with allegiance abilities and the like. So I think post 2.0 there's a wealth of material to keep GW busy in updating and in gamers wanting those updates even without the Endless Spells being added into the mix.
I really do hope they aren't waiting to update factions that don't currently have a battletome just because they haven't designed endless spells or gimicky terrain features for each and every one. I guess they could be fun but I honestly just want a coherent army list with some options to pick from.
Honestly in spite of the big start goblins gave AoS, I'm not sure we'll see all that many brand new armies. Call it a hunch, but I think GW tried to buy itself some time with endless spells, making updates to existing armies desirable for their owners and cheap, easy and convenient for GW.
Even without Endless Spells a lot of the armies still don't have Battletomes and could be easily done with just a book release. Plus older Tomes can be updated with allegiance abilities and the like. So I think post 2.0 there's a wealth of material to keep GW busy in updating and in gamers wanting those updates even without the Endless Spells being added into the mix.
They could, but will they?
More importantly, why would they? This is what I mean. They've established army specific endless spells as a feature of 2nd ed by now and releasing such a kit with a new battletome devoid of any other new models is still an easy way to please that army's players as it gives them new models and the feeling that their army is in fact up to 2nd ed standards, even if they otherwise exclusively use models made for a different game.
Let's be honest. endless spells don't need a lot of design work and it's just a single kit per army. There's really no reason for GW not to get one out for every redone battletome or consolidation of splinter factions.
Not-not-kenny wrote: I really do hope they aren't waiting to update factions that don't currently have a battletome just because they haven't designed endless spells or gimicky terrain features for each and every one. I guess they could be fun but I honestly just want a coherent army list with some options to pick from.
I very much doubt that adding one or two easy kits to an update holds up anything.
Galas wrote: Killteam wishes to be as popular as Shadespire.
By virtue of being 40k and using literally the same models as 40k, it's already vastly more popular.
I say this as somebody who loves Shadespire and much prefers it.
Depends on the region, i guess? Here in Spain, even though there's indeed quite a larger 40k population, only a quite small percentage play Kill team proper. Underworlds, meanwhile, has a very hardcore following.
Honestly in spite of the big start goblins gave AoS, I'm not sure we'll see all that many brand new armies. Call it a hunch, but I think GW tried to buy itself some time with endless spells, making updates to existing armies desirable for their owners and cheap, easy and convenient for GW.
Even without Endless Spells a lot of the armies still don't have Battletomes and could be easily done with just a book release. Plus older Tomes can be updated with allegiance abilities and the like. So I think post 2.0 there's a wealth of material to keep GW busy in updating and in gamers wanting those updates even without the Endless Spells being added into the mix.
They could, but will they?
More importantly, why would they? This is what I mean. They've established army specific endless spells as a feature of 2nd ed by now and releasing such a kit with a new battletome devoid of any other new models is still an easy way to please that army's players as it gives them new models and the feeling that their army is in fact up to 2nd ed standards, even if they otherwise exclusively use models made for a different game.
Let's be honest. endless spells don't need a lot of design work and it's just a single kit per army. There's really no reason for GW not to get one out for every redone battletome or consolidation of splinter factions.
Not-not-kenny wrote: I really do hope they aren't waiting to update factions that don't currently have a battletome just because they haven't designed endless spells or gimicky terrain features for each and every one. I guess they could be fun but I honestly just want a coherent army list with some options to pick from.
I very much doubt that adding one or two easy kits to an update holds up anything.
I think you underestimate how long it takes to design, produce and distribute a pastic kit.
Honestly in spite of the big start goblins gave AoS, I'm not sure we'll see all that many brand new armies. Call it a hunch, but I think GW tried to buy itself some time with endless spells, making updates to existing armies desirable for their owners and cheap, easy and convenient for GW.
Even without Endless Spells a lot of the armies still don't have Battletomes and could be easily done with just a book release. Plus older Tomes can be updated with allegiance abilities and the like. So I think post 2.0 there's a wealth of material to keep GW busy in updating and in gamers wanting those updates even without the Endless Spells being added into the mix.
They could, but will they?
More importantly, why would they? This is what I mean. They've established army specific endless spells as a feature of 2nd ed by now and releasing such a kit with a new battletome devoid of any other new models is still an easy way to please that army's players as it gives them new models and the feeling that their army is in fact up to 2nd ed standards, even if they otherwise exclusively use models made for a different game.
Let's be honest. endless spells don't need a lot of design work and it's just a single kit per army. There's really no reason for GW not to get one out for every redone battletome or consolidation of splinter factions.
Not-not-kenny wrote: I really do hope they aren't waiting to update factions that don't currently have a battletome just because they haven't designed endless spells or gimicky terrain features for each and every one. I guess they could be fun but I honestly just want a coherent army list with some options to pick from.
I very much doubt that adding one or two easy kits to an update holds up anything.
I think you underestimate how long it takes to design, produce and distribute a pastic kit.
18 to 24 months if GW is to be believed.
Not that that really matters because it's the same time for everything, give or take, so any future kit would have been planned for with the knowledge that 2nd ed uses endless spells, both starter set armies get their own unique spells, and even a neglected and splintered faction like Beastmen that doesn't get updated or new kits gets their own spells.
A more relevant question is whether they have the production capacity for those extra kits. Which only GW knows, but given how many plastic kits GW cranks out these days, I have a hard time believing that one or two kits to go with a new battletome is difficult for GW.
Count the number of kits in 2018 for each system, it’s very similar.
Add in Shadespire and it’s even more.
All this from someone saying it’s chilly.
I don’t particularly like AoS since it took over Fantasy which I loved.
But I can see they are pushing it way more than chilly..
And just on that subject of Squig dice.
It’s rather that they were so good rather than low production that they sold out I’d bet money on.
I know several people who’d ordered multiples of them, compared to number of players of them it’s a lot, and most buy dice for all their armies but still got these/more sets of.
I think Squigs have a following all their own..
Heck, I saw them and was considering getting some (I’ve bought some of the new squigs, and as I said I don’t play the army or the system..)
Automatically Appended Next Post: I’d warrant that they pretty much designed all the Endless Spells for all factions at the point of deciding those would be a thing in the game.
Remember, the lead time on a kit may be 18-24, but it can easily be more if they made all the plans, CADs for all the factions spells ready, then it’s just a case of producing them when the time is right to fit a release..
FYI, GW never sold squig dice. They sold dice squigs. They were squigs adapted to function as dice and it is extremely important that people get it right.
Carrion Empire sets the skaven against the Flesh-eater Courts in ferocious underground skirmishes. Inside this battle box, you’ll find everything you need to build two armies and then pit them against one another in games of Warhammer Age of Sigmar – with rules, token sheets and even two new character models exclusive to this set.
This set offers a phenomenal saving on getting the models inside separately – even before you include the new characters, a wealth of lore, art and all the other stuff you get in the box!
Carrion Empire is great for players looking to learn Warhammer Age of Sigmar with a friend, start a skaven or Flesh-eater Courts army, or just save some money!
Spoiler:
Skaven
That’s right – the skaven are back! Forging together the forces of Clans Skryre, Pestilens, Moulder, Verminus, Eshin and the Masterclan into a single Skaventide, this is the battletome the Great Horned Rat has been waiting for since Warhammer Age of Sigmar was released. Each of the Clans has its own allegiance abilities representing their tactics and character, but you’ll also be able to field them as a single, coherent and deadly force.
This battletome contains loads of new rules content and cements skaven as a major power player both on the tabletop and in (and between) the Mortal Realms. We’ll be bringing you in-depth previews of what you can expect from the book next week.
Like other armies this edition, skaven will even be getting new scenery – in this case, a tunnel network of Gnawholes – as well as new Endless Spells, custom dice and Warscroll Cards.
In short, the skaven are set to have everything you need to conquer the Mortal Realms – or at the very least, your next gaming night…
Spoiler:
"Gnawholes" scenery piece
Endless Spells!
Warscroll Cards!
Dice!
Flesh-Eater Courts
Death Battletome: Flesh-eater Courts updates one of Warhammer Age of Sigmar’s most popular armies for the new edition of the game, bringing together allegiance abilities, deeper rules and more to bring the army fully up to date.
You’ll be able to customise your characters with new magic and artefacts, or dedicate your army to one of the Grand Courts. Side with Gristlegore, for example, and you’ll get to take Royal Zombie Dragons as Battleline!
You’ve got new models on the way too, in the form of the Charnel Throne terrain piece and a gruesome set of Endless Spells. A set of handy Warscroll Cards rounds out the range, ensuring that keeping track of your units is simple.
Spoiler:
Scenery!
Endless Spells!
Warscroll Cards!
Am I the only one NOPE NOPE NOPE'ing a Zombie Dragon heavy army?
Street this is a massive release for both armies. Skaven being brought into a single tome is a huge game changer for them; plus Carrion Courts can get a nice boost from this. Sure they don't have many models but heck Daughters of Khaine are simialrly very small in range (only around 5 models with 3 of them being duel kits) and don't have any endless spells nor terrain feature.
Carrion might also get more things; we don't know as yet. This is just pre-release for next week - there could be more or there might not be .
That said I'd have thought Carrion was after Genestealers not at the same time and not with Battletomes for both at lauch! That's a big release for GW and is that a GW core rule book in paperback I see in the box?!
Wouldn't have minded for Flesh Eater Courts to get more small troops, but otherwise I think it is awesome that they are getting some support.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GW core rule book in paperback I see in the box?!
I think it's just the standard one you can print out. They now print standard rules pamphlets in all box sets these days. F.ex I got this and the 40k pamphlet in the Wrath and Rapture box set.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am wondering, with the Skaven force of the box being so big stuff, isn't this a really good box for Skaven or do you not want multiple copies of those items?
streetsamurai wrote: Is that the only releases these armies will get? Dissapointing to say the least if that's the case
Doesn't rule out week 2 release next week. This was quite a lot for one week anyway. GW usually spreads out releases a bit. If there's more to come week after this GW doesn't put official word about it yet. That's week later.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am wondering, with the Skaven force of the box being so big stuff, isn't this a really good box for Skaven or do you not want multiple copies of those items?
The Lightning gun is a duel kit that also makes the plague catapult so that's worth having several of - however you also get it in their start collecting set. The Doom Wheel is a very powerful fast hitting unit whilst the stormvermin are huge walking weapon platforms and essential for clan skyre (at present). I would say, for Skaven having two boxes worth of the models is ideal; and I'd wager the same, if not more so, is true for Flesh Eater courts (considering its got everythign they have save their plague dragon in it).
aracersss wrote: let me get this straight ... 1 model and a spell kit for FECs justify an entire new book? ... feelsbadman
They don't really havea book. They have a binder of outdated warscrolls. Their allegiance, and items are in the GHB.
This brings them up to Beasts of Chaos speed at least. The book gets them "chapter tactics", better items, a spell lore, etc. It's more than I ever hoped for. Tho I wouldn't mind a plastic Varghulf.
they feel worse than winter ogres,. and FEC has more plastic kits (3) ... maybe it's the over-use of multi kits, or just plain three kit army (four with new blister) ... wish they had more :/
aracersss wrote: let me get this straight ... 1 model and a spell kit for FECs justify an entire new book? ... feelsbadman
They don't really havea book. They have a binder of outdated warscrolls. Their allegiance, and items are in the GHB.
This brings them up to Beasts of Chaos speed at least. The book gets them "chapter tactics", better items, a spell lore, etc. It's more than I ever hoped for. Tho I wouldn't mind a plastic Varghulf.
Yeah. Needing a new battletome justifies getting one. They need to be rounded out and made a bit less gimmicky/limited in what's viable.
Also don't forget a Battletome confirms a faction is sticking around - it wasn't that long ago that we lost Greenskins as an army. So people are still cautious of investing in any forces that don't have a Battletome and we've no idea what GW is going to do with the glut of Aelven forces in Order.
So right now getting a Battletome is more than just models, its security of a future with AoS and a chance at more stuff in the future. Plus a good reason to start collecting them now - right now!
Overread wrote: Street this is a massive release for both armies. Skaven being brought into a single tome is a huge game changer for them; plus Carrion Courts can get a nice boost from this. Sure they don't have many models but heck Daughters of Khaine are simialrly very small in range (only around 5 models with 3 of them being duel kits) and don't have any endless spells nor terrain feature.
Carrion might also get more things; we don't know as yet. This is just pre-release for next week - there could be more or there might not be .
That said I'd have thought Carrion was after Genestealers not at the same time and not with Battletomes for both at lauch! That's a big release for GW and is that a GW core rule book in paperback I see in the box?!
Skaven range is pretty big, so them not getting new models is no big deal imo, But FEC range is ridiculously small. I thought this would be an occasion for them to expand a bit.
As you said, there might be some 2nd week release. I sincerly hope it's the case, cause I was interested in maybe starting a small FEC army, but I won't do so if there's nothing new
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overread wrote: Also don't forget a Battletome confirms a faction is sticking around - it wasn't that long ago that we lost Greenskins as an army. So people are still cautious of investing in any forces that don't have a Battletome and we've no idea what GW is going to do with the glut of Aelven forces in Order.
So right now getting a Battletome is more than just models, its security of a future with AoS and a chance at more stuff in the future. Plus a good reason to start collecting them now - right now!
I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't really mind if GW cut down on some of these AOS armies that were too related to the OW. Made the setting look like a deformed bastard child
I feel they kind of phoned it in for these two armies, a plastic Varghulf would have changed my mind...that old finecast kit needs to go. But whatever, all this did was seal my plans of not starting either of these armies.
They could easily do a week two of new models if they wanted. That said nothing stops them adding to the books content; GW might be stepping upa gear getting the Battletomes out to get models selling once more.
Plus its a LOT easier to get people into a game when they can go with whatever they want rather than being told "Oh wait don't try those armies because they "might" not survive or might change a lot if they get a Battletome."
Thargrim wrote: I feel they kind of phoned it in for these two armies, a plastic Varghulf would have changed my mind...that old finecast kit needs to go. But whatever, all this did was seal my plans of not starting either of these armies.
I wouldn't go that far. The Skaven book is going to be pretty big, and they already have an expansive model range. This is a pretty huge upgrade for them.
I do feel the FEC does feel a a bit more minimum-effort, but at the same time they at least updated it for the new edition, and the army is somewhat popular already. I wish they had included some new kits, but with the way Warscrolls work they can release the models at anytime.
I just feel AoS benefits more from new battletomes than from new models at the moment. And the Gloomspite release was huge... They've earned a break! A new hero for each is pretty cool. Plus obligatory spells & terrain is nice.
Overread wrote: They could easily do a week two of new models if they wanted. That said nothing stops them adding to the books content; GW might be stepping upa gear getting the Battletomes out to get models selling once more.
Plus its a LOT easier to get people into a game when they can go with whatever they want rather than being told "Oh wait don't try those armies because they "might" not survive or might change a lot if they get a Battletome."
Imagine outrage if the book would be out of date next week ;-) If there are any units coming next week they were well and done and known release date by the time book was finished so no reason to not to add it to the book. One thing about adding new units not in book like half a year later. But literally week later? That would be cruel
NinthMusketeer wrote: I just feel AoS benefits more from new battletomes than from new models at the moment. And the Gloomspite release was huge... They've earned a break! A new hero for each is pretty cool. Plus obligatory spells & terrain is nice.
Yeah, it's easier to release books at this state to consolidate current edition of AoS.
Gotta say, I too like the fact both factions have their battletomes with the launch of Carrion Empire. It's better than forcing players to use old books with heavy FAQ.
Though I still hope we will have something to replace the old Pestilens/Skryre finecast miniatures - but looking at Beasts of Chaos, I do not think it's that likely.
The new terrains are good news for giving life to your AoS table - the gnawholes in particular, I can find them a new purpose for my Ghyran table. I think the obvious new endless spell version of Rat Swarm doesn't have enough rats on it, but I'm nitpicking here.
A little it disappointed that Skryre is in the Skaven battletome. Of all of the clans Skryre was the one I felt could best carry a new battletome alone. Hopefully there will be enough to make a pure Skryre list feasible but if not at least it won't tempt me away from my planned Squigalanche...
Ghaz wrote: A little it disappointed that Skryre is in the Skaven battletome. Of all of the clans Skryre was the one I felt could best carry a new battletome alone. Hopefully there will be enough to make a pure Skryre list feasible but if not at least it won't tempt me away from my planned Squigalanche...
I have a gut feeling that the book will contain all of the Skryre abilities from the GHB (and then some), except now you can have some Eshin commandos and a Moulder beastie backing you up without worrying about breaking said allegiance. Think of the gloomspite gitz and how they managed to merge Moonclan, Spiderfang, Troggoths and Gargants together.
Ghaz wrote: A little it disappointed that Skryre is in the Skaven battletome. Of all of the clans Skryre was the one I felt could best carry a new battletome alone. Hopefully there will be enough to make a pure Skryre list feasible but if not at least it won't tempt me away from my planned Squigalanche...
I think this is the best move for GW at this point. Consolidating the Skaven into one book really helps cut down on the faction bloat we are seeing in AoS right now. I do agree Skryre would be the best to support themselves, but GW has to find a balance between supporting old and new armies.
Ghaz wrote: A little it disappointed that Skryre is in the Skaven battletome. Of all of the clans Skryre was the one I felt could best carry a new battletome alone. Hopefully there will be enough to make a pure Skryre list feasible but if not at least it won't tempt me away from my planned Squigalanche...
I think this is the best move for GW at this point. Consolidating the Skaven into one book really helps cut down on the faction bloat we are seeing in AoS right now. I do agree Skryre would be the best to support themselves, but GW has to find a balance between supporting old and new armies.
Really does help us expand into other clans more than the allies bracket permits. Going to be great for my ~4k of Skryre with the other guys thrown in, although I wouldn't be surprised if the over-arching Skaven allegience abilities are best suited to the more traditional armies.
Essentially, I much rather they chuck all the rattybois into one book. Never though Pestilens should've been serparated anyway.
They could have made all Skaven allies with each other and not worried about the army's allegiance. With their own battletome, Skryre would have been more likely to see some new plastics for existing kits (e.g. Skryre Acolytes, Weapon Teams and Warplock Jezzails) and some new kits as well themed for Skryre in particular.
JonWebb wrote: Between the fluer de lys on the fence, the horses and the bloody grail they really are taking the mickey out of poor Brett players.
Flesh eater courts are essentially bretonnians. Just with a dark bent.
I know, and I think it’s a cool enough version of the undead. Makes ghouls way more interesting g than just mad flesh eaters.
Just a bit of a shame if you were a Brett fan (not my army particularly, I dabbled back in 5th).
Still if Squats are coming back, then who knows what the future may bring. I’m sure GW felt the Arthurian myth plus France was a little tapped out and I’m enjoying what they are doing with the second Ed of AoS so maybe one day we will get some more house riding heroic knights.
I’m sure GW don’t mean harm, but I can see why some might feel a little sore over these little nods.
Ghaz wrote: They could have made all Skaven allies with each other and not worried about the army's allegiance. With their own battletome, Skryre would have been more likely to see some new plastics for existing kits (e.g. Skryre Acolytes, Weapon Teams and Warplock Jezzails) and some new kits as well themed for Skryre in particular.
Aye but the way AoS is setup going Battletome Alliances is generally preferable over Grand Alliance armies - so there'd be a distinct advantage to keep to one Clan Battletome. Plus if you got all those new plastics all the other skaven armies would get nothing in effect. Putting them in one book means even a single model update updates all skaven players. It's a very sensible move to support 1 army than 5. Esp since some, like Skyre, can look a bit odd with no clan rats and using what are basically elite heavy hitters (stormfiends) as battle-line warriors.
I do agree that there's room to update both armies with big model releases - for Skaven giving plastics for whatis currently metal and finecast; and for Flesh Eaters bulking them out; however I'd rather have battletomes now than wait another year for both models and tome at once. Tomes out earlier means more fun collecting, building and playing time.
Anyone know if some of my old figures can be used with the FEC army list (at least the one we have now)?
I don't know exactly how the 'Death' faction broke down where everything goes, but I thought I'd ask. Sorry if this isn't the place, but I am looking forward to getting Carrion empire, and want to know which models can join them.
These guys in particular.
Spoiler:
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6.
And can any death faction use necromancers, or are they tied to one group in particular?
I always felt like the verminus should have an option to 'mark' with a certain clan so they could be taken with any. But wrapping it all together works great too. The Beasts and Gloomspite are both really good and relatively well balanced to boot. The insistance that everyone gets a terrain piece is getting bland and watering down the impact, but that is a small thing.
Skullking - check the GW webstore - bone dragons are certainly featuring in the army. That said its not yet changed to reflect any shift around of models from the Battletome - that we might not know until next week or the week after when it formally drops.
Ninth - I think the terrain idea is based on the fact that GW has had a hard time making gamers actually buy terrain from them for their games. However giving armies terrain features has shown to produce a big increase in sales. For years Wood Elves have done this with forests, but it seems that other factions are doing really well with general sales of their terrain items.
I think that's why GW is doing it - they want to produce unique terrain features and they've tried giving them universal rules and gamers didn't really flock to them. However making them attached to a specific faction does produce sales for that factions players - good sales.
Plus they've thrown out games like Necromunda and Killteam - both of which heavily promote the use of GW terrain. It's a big push by GW to get more people buying and using their terrain and, honestly, GW are putting out a lot of really solid terrain. Some can appear rather overpriced though so I think its always an uphill struggle for them; but I think that tables today likely look a lot more 40K than many in the past.
auticus wrote: The entire royal zombie dragons as battleline thing makes me question why we bother with the battleline rule in the first place.
I'm guessing it's the undridden ones, which is a far cry from the king on dragon. Also, it's so certain builds can get special privliges for a certain cost. Not all FEC armies get a weird battleline like that and in all likelyhood they'll be stuck with a sub-par command trait & artifact to get it. The whole ethos about AoS has been letting players really customize what they can bring. Even with battleline they have offered ways around it, for a cost. I like this about AoS a TON, it lets me customize and make my army uniquely mine in a way that WHFB rarely did (6th army books were an exception but that's like the age of myth). Want to run gloomspite with mixed moonclan? Cool. Want to specialize in squigs? You can do that too. Want to run all trolls? You can even do that!
Now if it were ridden dragons it would be one thing but afaik they have never made a hero choice battleline and I don't expect them to start now. Unridden zombie dragons are cool, but they really aren't close to the powerhouse of a vampire on one.
auticus wrote: The entire royal zombie dragons as battleline thing makes me question why we bother with the battleline rule in the first place.
I'm guessing it's the undridden ones, which is a far cry from the king on dragon. Also, it's so certain builds can get special privliges for a certain cost. Not all FEC armies get a weird battleline like that and in all likelyhood they'll be stuck with a sub-par command trait & artifact to get it. The whole ethos about AoS has been letting players really customize what they can bring. Even with battleline they have offered ways around it, for a cost. I like this about AoS a TON, it lets me customize and make my army uniquely mine in a way that WHFB rarely did (6th army books were an exception but that's like the age of myth). Want to run gloomspite with mixed moonclan? Cool. Want to specialize in squigs? You can do that too. Want to run all trolls? You can even do that!
Now if it were ridden dragons it would be one thing but afaik they have never made a hero choice battleline and I don't expect them to start now. Unridden zombie dragons are cool, but they really aren't close to the powerhouse of a vampire on one.
I agree here with Ninth. Some tomes execute it better than others though. Gloomspite is a perfect example of how to execute it, in my opinion.
Just noticed the Skaven symbol is made up of six pips. Kind of a nice touch since I'm constantly getting the symbols and icons mixed up as to what number they represent.
Should've been thirteen, but I guess when you actually have to play by the rules...
skullking wrote: Anyone know if some of my old figures can be used with the FEC army list (at least the one we have now)?
I don't know exactly how the 'Death' faction broke down where everything goes, but I thought I'd ask. Sorry if this isn't the place, but I am looking forward to getting Carrion empire, and want to know which models can join them.
These guys in particular.
Spoiler:
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6.
And can any death faction use necromancers, or are they tied to one group in particular?
Thanks in advance.
2 is not showing up for me.
3 and 5 could pass as Varghuls, if you take the riders off. Or keep them on, up to you how insane you want your FEC to be.
1. Zacharias the Everliving proxy as a Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon. Or take the rider off and just use the dragon itself.
4 Mannfred, I guess proxy as Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon. Maybe be able to be taken as an Ally, if a new matrix is made(I don’t have LoN handy, I forget if they can ally already). He definitely made some use of FEC in the lore.
6 Dieter Helsnicht, not sure where you could use him offhand. Nothing springs to mind. Necromancers have much more limited mount options now.
How versatile is the zombie dragon kit? Because I'm wondering if "Royal Zombie Dragon" might be a new warscroll like how they created the "bloodseeker palanquin" from the mortis engine / coven throne.
Warlock Bombardiers are skaven who have dedicated their awful lives to blowing things up. They have forgotten more about blowing stuff up than you will ever know. If the Clans Skryre ever need anything blown up (which is always), these are the are the guys they get to do it.
On the tabletop, Warlock Bombardiers are masters of ranged warfare, providing magical and missile support to the Clans Skyre. Like other Warlock Engineers, they’re able to smite enemies with deadly warp lightning.
Where the Warlock Bombardier really shines is, predictably, in the shooting phase when he blows enemies apart with the doomrocket.
If you’re willing to take the risk, you’ll be able to overload the doomrocket, allowing you to obliterate enemies – provided you don’t obliterate yourself first!Essentially, he’s a little war machine in his own right and the perfect supporting unit for a firing line of Warp Lightning Cannons.
Spoiler:
Abhorrant Archregent:
The Abhorrant Archregent is the supreme leader of any given Flesh-eater Court. Ghoul Kings, are, as the name suggests, monarchs – this guy is akin to an emperor and lord over a vast domain. Centuries old, Abhorrant Archregents are horrifically strong and cunning, and their utter dedication to their delusions is resilient enough to bind together the fractious kingdoms of their kin.
Abhorrant Archregents are the ultimate support unit in a Flesh-eater Courts army. While they’re deadly combatants in their own right, where they really shine is in the hero phase, thanks to a superb spell and command ability.
Ferocious Hunter lets you increase the attacks of a nearby unit by up to 3. Cast it on a sufficiently massive horde of Crypt Ghouls, and you’ll be able to turn your foes into a fine, red mist.
Summon Imperial Guard, meanwhile, is unique among Flesh-eater Courts spells in the choice it offers – you’ll be able to pick a supporting Courtier, a heavy-hitting unit of Knights (that’s Crypt Flayers and Crypt Horrors) or a horde of Serfs (that’s Crypt Ghouls) to suit your purposes!
I like that they put in actual risks now instead of getting all the cake and eating it to.
The big big question will be what the point cost of said model is.
Because if its cheaper than 130 points a model, they have created an obvious OP spam build of 4-6 engineers spamming missile launchers doing gross damage and making sure you spread them out with the tunnel system so that they can't be dealt with easily.
It also makes it tactical and not just chance. You've still got the casting chance; but now if you take it along with other mages you can cast other spells and really mess up your opponent. Do they unbind those earlier spells or risk that you're holding all that warp lightning back for the end. Now they've got to make a choice and when your little bombardier comes you know yours - if they've got any unbinds left you cast as normal and if they don't - full power!
The rocket is equally risky (if not more so) but at the same time overloaded just looks like fun.
Both very apt themes for risky skaven technology.
I really hope in the book review they go through the model list - I'd really ike to know if some things are going or staying.
auticus wrote: I like that they put in actual risks now instead of getting all the cake and eating it to.
The big big question will be what the point cost of said model is.
Because if its cheaper than 130 points a model, they have created an obvious OP spam build of 4-6 engineers spamming missile launchers doing gross damage and making sure you spread them out with the tunnel system so that they can't be dealt with easily.
Fingers crossed that its not under priced. The pricing of units is a real issue in the game.
auticus wrote: I like that they put in actual risks now instead of getting all the cake and eating it to.
The big big question will be what the point cost of said model is.
Because if its cheaper than 130 points a model, they have created an obvious OP spam build of 4-6 engineers spamming missile launchers doing gross damage and making sure you spread them out with the tunnel system so that they can't be dealt with easily.
Fingers crossed that its not under priced. The pricing of units is a real issue in the game.
As much as I strongly dislike wombo combo ccg design, and AOS definitely embraced that full on, I agree with you that the unit pricing disparity is a big part of what breaks the game and has always been an issue with GW games since forever.
skullking wrote: Anyone know if some of my old figures can be used with the FEC army list (at least the one we have now)?
I don't know exactly how the 'Death' faction broke down where everything goes, but I thought I'd ask. Sorry if this isn't the place, but I am looking forward to getting Carrion empire, and want to know which models can join them.
These guys in particular.
Spoiler:
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6.
And can any death faction use necromancers, or are they tied to one group in particular?
Thanks in advance.
2 is not showing up for me.
3 and 5 could pass as Varghuls, if you take the riders off. Or keep them on, up to you how insane you want your FEC to be.
1. Zacharias the Everliving proxy as a Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon. Or take the rider off and just use the dragon itself.
4 Mannfred, I guess proxy as Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon. Maybe be able to be taken as an Ally, if a new matrix is made(I don’t have LoN handy, I forget if they can ally already). He definitely made some use of FEC in the lore.
6 Dieter Helsnicht, not sure where you could use him offhand. Nothing springs to mind. Necromancers have much more limited mount options now.
Thanks for the breakdown nels!
I guess I'll just have to wait for the new book to get the deets on what all will be usablie. It would be fun to use most of my undead stuff if possible.
FYI, not sure why #2 didn't work, but it was this guy, the old Wight lord on zombie dragon.
I have that model. He's tiny though. You can get guys irrate that you are using a dragon thats only a little bigger than today's ogres when the new dragon will likely be huge.
Loving the new Bombadier rules, and the change to warp lightning. As it stands there is little choice; you almost always use the energy condenser because the risk-reward is weighed heavily towards reward. Now it's still fun because the risk is still there and it has that 'gambling' element but now the choice is far more tactical as well. Cast other spells first knowing the enemy will either burn their unbind attempts on other spells, while if they save an unbind for warp lightning turn it on them by not using the energy condenser. That is exactly the sort of gameplay one would want out of Skaven and it's really well designed.
Also doing d6 mortals on a 5+ is kind of OP even if you do take the damage on a fail (and don't use a warp spark to re-roll the cast). This is coming from someone who has vaporized many-many foe-things with warp lightning.
New FEC is cool, will wait to see the whole profile. His melee and healing capacity matters a lot, as does if/what they changed how summoning works for them.
I'm beginning to wonder if GW goes out of their way to research which factions I like best so they can not give them special dice when their update comes around. I would have thought Flesh Eater Courts could do with a couple of extra models like Daughters of Khaine got, but ok. What we have is at least workable. But a versus box and a mirrored release in which the stupid rats get dice and my poor ghouls don't? Thanks, GW...
TheWaspinator wrote: How versatile is the zombie dragon kit? Because I'm wondering if "Royal Zombie Dragon" might be a new warscroll like how they created the "bloodseeker palanquin" from the mortis engine / coven throne.
I't been a couple of years since I converted mine, but unless I misremember the kit is not versatile at all. You either build a Terrorgheist or a Zombie Dragon and use the exact parts listed. No options that I recall.
I had to do a good bit of cutting and sculpting to get a decent dragon without throne.
The King is nice and all but could really use that monstrous mount...
