ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I think Immotekh is good option right now.
2 MWBD, +1 CP and his Storm ability make him good option.

I might try him with immortals or/and warriors.
Now i want to play 1 HQ, he is nice.

I've been using Imotekh almost exclusively in every game I've played with necrons and he's always been a great support character. Surprisingly harder to kill than you opponent will initially assume and as warlord provides the only source of CP regen.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

What i do not like about Tesla that -1 to hit just makes it useless. Tesla does not have AP so for example marines in cover will have 2+ save :\

Use a stratagem for 1 CP to remove cover. Use mephrit dynasty to give tesla AP-1 at half range.

 p5freak wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

What i do not like about Tesla that -1 to hit just makes it useless. Tesla does not have AP so for example marines in cover will have 2+ save :\

Use a stratagem for 1 CP to remove cover. Use mephrit dynasty to give tesla AP-1 at half range.

Honestly that stratagem is fantastic. I use it often for targets that really need to die, and when I don't want to have to over-allocate resources to do it.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I think Immotekh is good option right now.
2 MWBD, +1 CP and his Storm ability make him good option.

I might try him with immortals or/and warriors.
Now i want to play 1 HQ, he is nice.

I've been using Imotekh almost exclusively in every game I've played with necrons and he's always been a great support character. Surprisingly harder to kill than you opponent will initially assume and as warlord provides the only source of CP regen.

Also that staff of his is really useful. Easily clears out 3 guardsmen dug in or kills a sentinel in one volley. 18" makes a ton of difference to the regular staff

I find his Storm to be extremely valuable. I run into a lot of eldar that love their Dark Reapers that punch holes in my Necrons from afar and with fire and fade I can never seem to touch them.

His Strom ability does not need line of sight and with a re roll thrown in you are sure to cut a few down dropping their fire power greatly. This also makes it safer to use a Vail becuase that the Forewarned strat is mostly pulled on D Reapers.

Pyrothem wrote:
I find his Storm to be extremely valuable. I run into a lot of eldar that love their Dark Reapers that punch holes in my Necrons from afar and with fire and fade I can never seem to touch them.

His Strom ability does not need line of sight and with a re roll thrown in you are sure to cut a few down dropping their fire power greatly. This also makes it safer to use a Vail becuase that the Forewarned strat is mostly pulled on D Reapers.

Yeah, I'm finding room for him in my lists now. Most lists I make will likely have a battalion like:

So is the consensus to keep to just the minimum requirements for troop units (though maxed out to 10 in the unit of Tesla Immortals), or would there be any merit in going crazy and loading up on as many T.ims and Overlords as you can fit in a list?
(Hmm, actually, with the points reductions, I wonder if we can work Brigade lists out for competitive use?)

Also, I'm assuming Tomb Blades are still best run as Gauss while Immortals handle Tesla, right? (because of MWBD interactions)
Or we we going to try seeing how Tes.TBs & Anni.Bs work with Stalker assistance?

A brigade is possible now, but two battalions are more efficient than a brigade. With a brigade you are limited to one dynasty, and you have to take three fast attack, three heavy support, and three elite units.

 skoffs wrote:
So is the consensus to keep to just the minimum requirements for troop units (though maxed out to 10 in the unit of Tesla Immortals), or would there be any merit in going crazy and loading up on as many T.ims and Overlords as you can fit in a list?
(Hmm, actually, with the points reductions, I wonder if we can work Brigade lists out for competitive use?)

Also, I'm assuming Tomb Blades are still best run as Gauss while Immortals handle Tesla, right? (because of MWBD interactions)
Or we we going to try seeing how Tes.TBs & Anni.Bs work with Stalker assistance?

I think it might actually be possible to make quite a strong Brigade now. 1999 pts on CA2018 release, 2251 currently. The points reductions we got means we're no longer taking trash like single units of 1 Heavy Destroyer to pat out our choices, Deathmarks aren't amazing, but they did get a drop. I think the list I brought with 6x10 Immortals, Imotekh and Zahndrekh was really strong 30-40 MWBD guys puts a hurting on infantry and even Knights, my list did however lack Destroyers so running 30 or 25 is probably the best choice, running 0 or 15 is still valid depending on meta I think. Most importantly we can fit 3 DDAs in a Brigade which is huge. I probably won't be taking 0 Immortals any longer, I think our other units are good enough that I won't take 3 units of Destroyers any longer, just one or two should be enough in most cases.

That's a pretty legit brigade. Shame about the deathmarks

I think Teslamortals are one of the strongest troop choices in the game, now. Because I'm lazy I'm waiting for battlescribe to update, but a double battalion with Imotekh, 6x10 immortals and 3xDDA could definitely be a thing,

 p5freak wrote:
With a brigade you are limited to one dynasty, and you have to take three fast attack, three heavy support, and three elite units.

Between Destroyers, Wraiths, Tomb Blades and Scarabs, three Fast Attack is going to be an easy fill.
For Heavy most people will probably be sticking with the obligatory DDA³, or maybe a A.Barge if they're a little tight on points.
Elite is going to be the only one that might be considered a tax, but Stalkers would be really helpful for those DDAs and T.ims, and if short on points, MSU Deathmark have their uses AND got a little cheaper.

Once CA drops this might be my priority for testing.

Think for the Brigade, I would feel nepherek fits best.

Makes the 4 units of immortals quick for objective grabbing. same with the scarabs.

Also means the destroyers can deep strike in, and even cheeky deep striking immortals/scarabs onto objectives

 vict0988 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
So is the consensus to keep to just the minimum requirements for troop units (though maxed out to 10 in the unit of Tesla Immortals), or would there be any merit in going crazy and loading up on as many T.ims and Overlords as you can fit in a list?
(Hmm, actually, with the points reductions, I wonder if we can work Brigade lists out for competitive use?)

Also, I'm assuming Tomb Blades are still best run as Gauss while Immortals handle Tesla, right? (because of MWBD interactions)
Or we we going to try seeing how Tes.TBs & Anni.Bs work with Stalker assistance?

I think it might actually be possible to make quite a strong Brigade now. 1999 pts on CA2018 release, 2251 currently. The points reductions we got means we're no longer taking trash like single units of 1 Heavy Destroyer to pat out our choices, Deathmarks aren't amazing, but they did get a drop. I think the list I brought with 6x10 Immortals, Imotekh and Zahndrekh was really strong 30-40 MWBD guys puts a hurting on infantry and even Knights, my list did however lack Destroyers so running 30 or 25 is probably the best choice, running 0 or 15 is still valid depending on meta I think. Most importantly we can fit 3 DDAs in a Brigade which is huge. I probably won't be taking 0 Immortals any longer, I think our other units are good enough that I won't take 3 units of Destroyers any longer, just one or two should be enough in most cases.

Spoiler:

Models: 69 CP: 8 Pts remaining: 11 Pts: 1999

Sautekh Brigade 5

1 Lord (hyperphase sword) 68

1 Cryptek (staff of light + canoptek cloak) 85

1 Overlord (warscythe) 93

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 75

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 75

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 75

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 75

10 Immortals (tesla carbines) 150

10 Immortals (tesla carbines) 150

5 Deathmarks 85

5 Deathmarks 85

1 Triarch Stalker (twin heavy gauss cannon) 125

3 Canoptek Scarabs 39

3 Canoptek Scarabs 39

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

1 Doomsday Ark 160

1 Doomsday Ark 160

1 Doomsday Ark 160

I’m not quite sure if it's worth it to brigade up though. The lists I am building now are 9 CP, and will be 10 if I can find a way to fit in Immotekh, so I don't really know if the extra CP are really worth all the chaff like Deathmarks we have to put in as well as the 5 man immortal squads.

At the very least, one thing is for sure and that is we have relevant options again. I am very curious to see how ITC changes things up with the new missions. If they implement First Strike, the new scoring (Being tabled doesn't mean you auto-win) Things will also get a lot better for us, as it really hurts one of our major "predators" (knights) in the meta.

I think Double Battalion is probably more flexible than a single Brigade. But i think we've come to understand the points drops in CA are going to help us attain more CP for use in battle, which is a nice little perk.

Personally, the reductions to our lackluster HQs are quite nice.

Double battalion is cheaper, yes.
Same number of required troops, but with 1 more obligatory HQ and without the elite requirement. If it weren't for the elite requirement the brigade would actually be cheaper to field.
The brigade needs to be rebalanced so its more appealing. Probably 2 less troops and more slots or something.

To be devil's advocate for the lack of rules changes...I think GW is testing the waters. They probably want to see how much of the problem with necron is to due to price, to make sure that we aren't just looking for an easy power boost.

It may seem odd, but considering how many bad ideas people have concerning balance, and how GW most likely receives a lot of these bad idea, they probably want to play it safe before doing something drastic and end up reversing said changes. It would have been nice to have some rules changes, but I can see the logic in taking the minimal approach.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well, with double battalion you need 4 HQ and 6 troops as opposed to 3 HQ and 4 troops, so you already have to pay more of a "tax".

However, you will get more CP and slots to field non-troops units.

To be devil's advocate for the lack of rules changes...I think GW is testing the waters. They probably want to see how much of the problem with necron is to due to price, to make sure that we aren't just looking for an easy power boost.

It may seem odd, but considering how many bad ideas people have concerning balance, and how GW most likely receives a lot of these bad idea, they probably want to play it safe before doing something drastic and end up reverse said changes. It would have been nice to have some rules changes, but I can see the logic in taking the minimal approach.

I guess we'll see come the Spring FAQ. But from what I've heard, they already felt the army was good enough before Chapter Approved. Getting any change might be an uphill battle.

Whilst double Battalion may be more efficient, note that many UK TOs have been clamping down (read: banning) on both doubles of one detachment type and/or more than two non battalion detachments.

Still worth exploring, however.

sieGermans wrote:
Whilst double Battalion may be more efficient, note that many UK TOs have been clamping down (read: banning) on both doubles of one detachment type and/or more than two non battalion detachments.

Still worth exploring, however.

I'm not surprised. After double checking the requirements for a brigade, its actually cheaper to field double battalions, and you get more CP out of it. Banning double detachments of the same type is a logical move in that respect.

re: rules changes - could still come as codex errata. Did GW publish errata this time last year? I can't remember.

momerathe wrote:
re: rules changes - could still come as codex errata. Did GW publish errata this time last year? I can't remember.

They did in September. They gave monoliths and nightscythes transport like capabilities, and stopped wraiths from moving through things in the charge phase, to bring them in line with other units with the fly rule.

momerathe wrote:
re: rules changes - could still come as codex errata. Did GW publish errata this time last year? I can't remember.

I don't recall if they updated the codex errata but there is a specific CA 2017 errata on the FAQ page. That would coincide with their points only in CA and rules in codex/errata. A few more days to see!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Double battalion is cheaper, yes.
Same number of required troops, but with 1 more obligatory HQ and without the elite requirement. If it weren't for the elite requirement the brigade would actually be cheaper to field.
The brigade needs to be rebalanced so its more appealing. Probably 2 less troops and more slots or something.

To be devil's advocate for the lack of rules changes...I think GW is testing the waters. They probably want to see how much of the problem with necron is to due to price, to make sure that we aren't just looking for an easy power boost.

It may seem odd, but considering how many bad ideas people have concerning balance, and how GW most likely receives a lot of these bad idea, they probably want to play it safe before doing something drastic and end up reverse said changes. It would have been nice to have some rules changes, but I can see the logic in taking the minimal approach.

Yeah, our biggest issue (other than just being too pricey) was that our anti-tank options were ludicrously overcosted. Now we can bring more big guns to the field, I think we're in a much better spot.

Some people suggested it already.
A double battalion build looks very solid and strong right now.

As much as im unsatisfied with CA2018 I have to say one of the biggest things they did for us is making a battalion useful!

Very often pre CA18 I didnt even consider to take a battalion

How about the most important Necron question: What do we think of the Monolith?

Approximately 2 Battle Cannons and 4 Heavy Bolters worth of shooting for 320pts is still not a great deal, but the mobility it provides is hard to put a price on.

Deep striking it means you can't use it's teleporting tricks till turn 3, and you may struggle to find a big enough landing zone, so I would probably never do that.

The Deceiver bomb is still an option with the same pro's and cons. The extra 61pts probably won't change your chances of either winning big or losing big with that kind of list.

I think there is now room to take one, and just deploy it normally, without having some big trick in mind. Let it roll around doing a bit of shooting, and providing some movement options for infantry units.

I've got ten praetorian/lychguard still on sprues - how do the current configurations match up?

I was planning on building rod praets simple because the staff looks better, and having some fast infantry is a nice luxury in a necron force. However I think scytheguard look the coolest, but being so slow I'm not sure it's worth it. Not sure about sword and board or pistol and blade.

Was thinking about this set up, and personally dont see the elites as the tax. just wish had more points for destroyers or wraiths

I'm not convinced by the double battalion/brigade talk. You still end up taking a lot of things that are essentially a tax.

5 man Immortal squads are ok sure, but you wouldn't even think of taking them for their own sake. 10x Tesla with an Overlord to MWBD is a unit that gets stuff done, and I can see a couple of them earning a place in a list on their own merits. I still feel like a 3rd troops choice is a tax, but it's not terrible to have some redundancy. An extra 225pts in troops you don't really want? Plus an extra HQ or two, and possibly 3 of our sub par elite choices? If we had a 5CP stratagem that transformed all that crap into equal points of Destroyers I'd play it every game.

moonsmite wrote:
Was thinking about this set up, and personally dont see the elites as the tax. just wish had more points for destroyers or wraiths

Spoiler:

Sautekh Brigade

1 Lord (hyperphase sword) 68

1 Cryptek (staff of light + Chromotron) 95

1 Immotek 160

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 75

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 75

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 75

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 75

10 Immortals (tesla carbines) 150

10 Immortals (tesla carbines) 150

1 The deceiver 225

1 Triarch Stalker (twin heavy gauss cannon) 125

1 Triarch Stalker (twin heavy gauss cannon) 125

3 Canoptek Scarabs 39

3 Canoptek Scarabs 39

3 Canoptek Scarabs 39

1 Doomsday Ark 160

1 Doomsday Ark 160

1 Doomsday Ark 160

I know it's just a spit-balling list, but swap the Deceiver for the Nightbringer imo. The list doesn't have much of anything worth Deceiving up the board. At least the Nightbringer is a scary mofo to threaten potentially chargers with.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I'm not convinced by the double battalion/brigade talk. You still end up taking a lot of things that are essentially a tax.

5 man Immortal squads are ok sure, but you wouldn't even think of taking them for their own sake. 10x Tesla with an Overlord to MWBD is a unit that gets stuff done, and I can see a couple of them earning a place in a list on their own merits. I still feel like a 3rd troops choice is a tax, but it's not terrible to have some redundancy. An extra 225pts in troops you don't really want? Plus an extra HQ or two, and possibly 3 of our sub par elite choices? If we had a 5CP stratagem that transformed all that crap into equal points of Destroyers I'd play it every game.

3x10 plus 3x5 Immortals with an Overlord, a Lord, a Cryptek, and Immotehk is a stupid amount of firepower, considering those 10 man squads will hit on 2s, and reroll 1s to wound. Nasty. Fill out the rest with Destroyers and Doomsdays

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I'm not convinced by the double battalion/brigade talk. You still end up taking a lot of things that are essentially a tax.

5 man Immortal squads are ok sure, but you wouldn't even think of taking them for their own sake. 10x Tesla with an Overlord to MWBD is a unit that gets stuff done, and I can see a couple of them earning a place in a list on their own merits. I still feel like a 3rd troops choice is a tax, but it's not terrible to have some redundancy. An extra 225pts in troops you don't really want? Plus an extra HQ or two, and possibly 3 of our sub par elite choices? If we had a 5CP stratagem that transformed all that crap into equal points of Destroyers I'd play it every game.

You require less for a double battalion than for a single brigade.
2 battalions needs 4 HQ 6 Troops and gives you 10 CP
1 Brigade needs 3 HQ 6 Troops 3 Elites and gives you 12 CP

So you pay more points to get that extra 2 CP.
Its not that cost effective, imo.

 iGuy91 wrote:


3x10 with an Overlord, lord, and Immotehk is a stupid amount of firepower, considering those 10 man squads will hit on 2s, and reroll 1s to wound. Nasty. Fill out the rest with Destroyers and Doomsdays

I edited your post. I don't think much has been lost.

TBH the only semi-reliable elite we have is the Triarch Stalker now that its priced more appropriately, and Ctan shards which are too expensive to spam.

Another point I would make is that your 1st battalion gives 8 CP and 3 troops + 2 HQs that will all contribute meaningfully to your list.

The second battalion gives only 5 CP and is made up of 3 troops and 2 HQs that you probably didn't want.

Serious diminishing returns.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
5 man Immortal squads are ok sure, but you wouldn't even think of taking them for their own sake. 10x Tesla with an Overlord to MWBD is a unit that gets stuff done, and I can see a couple of them earning a place in a list on their own merits.

This has got me thinking about that conundrum we had ages back:
What's the most efficient use of points?
• Immortals + things to make them better
• Or equal points of just straight up Immortals

Yes, 10 Tesla Immortals with MWBD are pretty good,
but are they better than 16 non MWBD Tesla Immortals?
(and yes, I'm aware the Overlord would probably taken no matter what because of HQ requirements, I'm just wondering what the efficiency difference would be regardless)

I think the 2 compulsory HQs prevent us needing to do the maths. If I'm not taking special characters my preferred HQ + Troop selection will probably be

3x Overlord
3x 10 Immortals

It unlocks a Battalion + another 1 CP detachment, and gives you 3 units of immortals that can always have MWBD and don't need to stick together.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I think the 2 compulsory HQs prevent us needing to do the maths. If I'm not taking special characters my preferred HQ + Troop selection will probably be

3x Overlord
3x 10 Immortals

It unlocks a Battalion + another 1 CP detachment, and gives you 3 units of immortals that can always have MWBD and don't need to stick together.

Agreed. I think 2 OL plus 3x10 Immortals is currently our best battalion. 3x5 can work for niche lists dumping points into super heavies or destroyers, but 3x10 feels right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though, i'd throw a lord in there as well, rerolling 1s to wound is clutch

This would be my double battalion list. Still old points, its 1991 points after CA is out. Cryptek tries to fix damaged DDAs, stalker provides re-roll 1s to hit, imotekh double buffs immortals, destroyers deepstrike, second cryptek can veil around the battlefield with another immortal unit. Scarabs hold objectives.

With Necrons i often see when opponent tag your foot units with flying transports (eldar) or similar. And they're done (except 1 veil).

The only solution is sitting in cover in position they can not reach you but it's often when you can not reach them too.

About CP. More CP vs better units choice is tough. I think i'll go with spearhead + outrider. It gives me 5CP and i can take 3xDDA, 3xAnni Barge, Destroyers, 2-3x6 Tomb Blades, 2xStalkers so on.

Necron troops are overcosted and i found them not very strong - they can be tagged or out of range.

Of course more CP we have more rerolls we use. But 5CP can be done without troop tax and will be okay for basic needs (destroyers, -1 QS, -cover)

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I think the 2 compulsory HQs prevent us needing to do the maths. If I'm not taking special characters my preferred HQ + Troop selection will probably be

3x Overlord
3x 10 Immortals

It unlocks a Battalion + another 1 CP detachment, and gives you 3 units of immortals that can always have MWBD and don't need to stick together.

The isolated math is simple, add 50%, so 5 immortals.

Though concentration of power has something going for it and as said, you're bringing the OL anyway

Necronplayer wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
I find his Storm to be extremely valuable. I run into a lot of eldar that love their Dark Reapers that punch holes in my Necrons from afar and with fire and fade I can never seem to touch them.

His Strom ability does not need line of sight and with a re roll thrown in you are sure to cut a few down dropping their fire power greatly. This also makes it safer to use a Vail becuase that the Forewarned strat is mostly pulled on D Reapers.

Yeah, I'm finding room for him in my lists now. Most lists I make will likely have a battalion like:

Spoiler:

HQ:
Imotekh (160)
Lord (68)

Troop:
Tesla Immortals (150)
Tesla Immortals (150)
Tesla Immortals (150)

Total: 678 points

MWBD 2-3 immortals, storm a target, and pop Methodical Destruction is so much firepower from troops.

With the price cut to Heavy Destroyers, I'm thinking you can fit 3×3 of those while the Immortals advance forward.

Think about how awesome using his two MWBD, and use the Strategem to use it another time, and now you got 3 squads of beefed up Heavy Destroyers. It was merely fun before Chapter Approved, but I'm considering it an actual option now.

 skoffs wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
5 man Immortal squads are ok sure, but you wouldn't even think of taking them for their own sake. 10x Tesla with an Overlord to MWBD is a unit that gets stuff done, and I can see a couple of them earning a place in a list on their own merits.

This has got me thinking about that conundrum we had ages back:
What's the most efficient use of points?
• Immortals + things to make them better
• Or equal points of just straight up Immortals

Yes, 10 Tesla Immortals with MWBD are pretty good,
but are they better than 16 non MWBD Tesla Immortals?
(and yes, I'm aware the Overlord would probably taken no matter what because of HQ requirements, I'm just wondering what the efficiency difference would be regardless)

They're pretty even. MWBD increases base tesla output by 50%. However the real benefit of it is counteracting -1 to hit, which halves tesla damage output.

 skoffs wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
5 man Immortal squads are ok sure, but you wouldn't even think of taking them for their own sake. 10x Tesla with an Overlord to MWBD is a unit that gets stuff done, and I can see a couple of them earning a place in a list on their own merits.

This has got me thinking about that conundrum we had ages back:
What's the most efficient use of points?
• Immortals + things to make them better
• Or equal points of just straight up Immortals

Yes, 10 Tesla Immortals with MWBD are pretty good,
but are they better than 16 non MWBD Tesla Immortals?
(and yes, I'm aware the Overlord would probably taken no matter what because of HQ requirements, I'm just wondering what the efficiency difference would be regardless)

I view it more of how do I best use the units I'm required to take, which is HQ and Troops. You have to take both, take them in the quantities that make them work best together.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

I view it more of how do I best use the units I'm required to take, which is HQ and Troops. You have to take both, take them in the quantities that make them work best together.

This is one reason why Knights mixed with Guard are so frustrating to me. Their "best working quantities" are tiny in comparison to everyone else, so they can stack up CP like crazy. I'm extremely surprised that CP hasn't been changed to only be spendable on the faction keyword that generated it.

It's also something I hate about our HQs. Without psykers, we're kinda boring. We have some ok options, but there's nothing beyond very linear buffs. Imotekh is the closest we have to an interesting HQ option.

Imagine a world where C'Tan had optional but more expensive HQ profiles. Or where an Overlord can carry a fragment of a shard and gain a C'Tan power, with some kind of risk attached. It'd be incredible, but it'll never happen.

So I'm trying to include Zahndrekh/Orikan/Imotekh/Obyron in my lists, but the thing is I'm kind of disappointed with Sautekh dynasty. How do you guys use the dynasty trait?

Which units benefit the most? I can only see Destroyers being decent with Advance + shoot.

Beyond that, which are some spicy combination for Dynasty Traits + units that have been successful for you? I'm trying to figure out how to run my Doomsday Arks, destroyers, wraiths, lychguard, Monolith and even immortals..

MrPieChee wrote:
I've got ten praetorian/lychguard still on sprues - how do the current configurations match up?

I was planning on building rod praets simple because the staff looks better, and having some fast infantry is a nice luxury in a necron force. However I think scytheguard look the coolest, but being so slow I'm not sure it's worth it. Not sure about sword and board or pistol and blade.

Spoiler:

My army currently looks like:
6 overlords (I think I'll convert to 2 Lord's and 2 crypteks, probably with the left overs from the above sprues)
48 warriors
10 Gauss immortals
1 monolith
2 stalkers (magnetised)
2 barges
12 scarabs
2 destroyers

I saw a good conversion of warriors to flayed ones recently - if they weren't so terrible I would get another box of warriors and make 20 FO...
Has anyone tried fixing a stalker heavy Gauss cannon to a destroyer? Heavy destroyers look terrible!

Not planning on getting anything else any time soon... Unless I magically paint lots of plastic....

With the huge points drop that Shield Lychguard have received I'm going to try them again. With the emphasise the new missions have placed on objectives I think a few units with some staying power would be quite useful - and in a pinch can pop the shield strat to help and also deal MW back.

Bonus post:

I'd love some feedback on my list. I'm trying to create a 2k point list, but I can't seem to drop under 2.3k points. Any feedback would be welcome:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
How about the most important Necron question: What do we think of the Monolith?

Approximately 2 Battle Cannons and 4 Heavy Bolters worth of shooting for 320pts is still not a great deal, but the mobility it provides is hard to put a price on.

Deep striking it means you can't use it's teleporting tricks till turn 3, and you may struggle to find a big enough landing zone, so I would probably never do that.

The Deceiver bomb is still an option with the same pro's and cons. The extra 61pts probably won't change your chances of either winning big or losing big with that kind of list.

I think there is now room to take one, and just deploy it normally, without having some big trick in mind. Let it roll around doing a bit of shooting, and providing some movement options for infantry units.

A Catachan Leman Russ Tank Commander with Battle Cannon and 3x Heavy Bolter is 194 pts. It does an average of 6,61 battle cannon hits at 72" while moving up to 5" or 3,31 battle cannon hits while moving up to 10" and 7 S5 AP-1 hits at 36" while standing still or 5,25 S 5 AP-1 hits at 36" after moving up to 10". A Leman Russ has T8 and a 3+ Sv and 12 wounds and is a Character Vehicle. You're paying 16,17 pts per wound.

A Sautekh Monolith with a Particle Whip and 4 Gauss Flux Arcs is 320 pts. It does an average of 4 battle cannon hits at 24" while moving up to 6" or 3 hits after moving 6+D6" and also does 8 S5 AP-2 hits at range 24" while moving up to 6" or 6 S5 AP-2 hits at range 24" after moving 6+d6". A Monolith has T8 and 3+ Sv and 20 wounds + any wounds it gets back from Living Metal and it is a Titanic Vehicle. You're paying 16 pts per wound, if you're assuming you get 2 wounds back with Living Metal, 14,5 pts per wound.

You're missing a third of your firepower, is it worth it to sacrifice that for the ability to teleport units over? No, cut off another 40 though, then I think we might start talking. The Monolith is still bad, worst unit? Probably not any longer, but that depends on the buffs the other worst units got (if any). The Nid melee KEQ with the flamer is pretty damn terrible AFAIK.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Spoiler:

Imotekh (160)

Think about how awesome using his two MWBD, and use the Strategem to use it another time, and now you got 3 squads of beefed up Heavy Destroyers. It was merely fun before Chapter Approved, but I'm considering it an actual option now.

The sad thing is that the monolith has too many rules to ever be points efficient, maybe if they made deep strike a stratagem for it, they could drop the points more, but at that point it would just be a CP tax because you'll never start with it on the board. The other problem is it's competition for emergency invasion beams, since it can only be used when you lose your last night scythe or monolith. If you are not planning on using night scythe delivered lychguard that might not be a drawback, but if you are running a split CC gunline list, lychguard in CC on turn two against a target of your choice is probably too good to pass up.

As for worst unit, still the obelisk, and that's unlikely to change unless they make tesla orbs/destructors not suck.

I really want to make nightbringer work, he is a singularly good beat stick. The catch is his screen is a non-trivial issue, either he takes your scarabs with him, or you have to run him with praetorians. He can't keep up with wraiths, and tomb blades might work, but they are better off getting in to rapid fire range and melting faces. He can't go in transports, he doesn't get a dynasty keyword, and he can't enter buildings. Has anyone figured out a way around his failings or is one of my favorite models just going to continue collecting dust.

*edit* So here is what I'm thinking about for gunline necrons, nothing to earth shaking, the only real notable divergences from the other list posted in a similar vein is going with Imotekh to support two units of tesla immortals, and including a stalker to support the immortals as the DDAs won't need reroll ones since they'll get it from their dynasty. I do skip wraiths in what might surprise some, but without support (since the focus is on gunline) I just don't think they are worth it. Everything else is pretty garden variety, Standard screen of scarabs, triple DDA nihilak spearhead, tomb blades and destroyers.

 necr0n wrote:
So I'm trying to include Zahndrekh/Orikan/Imotekh/Obyron in my lists, but the thing is I'm kind of disappointed with Sautekh dynasty. How do you guys use the dynasty trait?

Which units benefit the most? I can only see Destroyers being decent with Advance + shoot.

Any sautekh unit with a heavy weapon that moves, or count as moving after deepstriking. Doom scythes, canoptek tomb sentinel, DDAs..... Sautekh lets you choose imotekh, which is a good HQ choice, and probably the main reason you pick sautekh. The dynasty buff itself is pretty weak, because we dont have many units with heavy weapons.

 necr0n wrote:

Beyond that, which are some spicy combination for Dynasty Traits + units that have been successful for you? I'm trying to figure out how to run my Doomsday Arks, destroyers, wraiths, lychguard, Monolith and even immortals..

You dont run a monolith, because its still bad. With the exception of imotekh our named characters are all bad. Still to expensive for what they can do. DDAs benefit from nihilakh re-rolling hit rolls of 1s when not moving. Destroyers as nephrekh for deepstriking. Wraiths either nehprekh for auto advancing 6", or novokh to re-roll failed hit rolls after charging, or nihilakh to give them a 2++ inv with a stratagem. Lychguard as novokh, nephrekh, nihilakh. Immortals dont benefit much from dynasties,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimgold wrote:

I really want to make nightbringer work, he is a singularly good beat stick. The catch is his screen is a non-trivial issue, either he takes your scarabs with him, or you have to run him with praetorians. He can't keep up with wraiths, and tomb blades might work, but they are better off getting in to rapid fire range and melting faces. He can't go in transports, he doesn't get a dynasty keyword, and he can't enter buildings. Has anyone figured out a way around his failings or is one of my favorite models just going to continue collecting dust.

What makes you think he cant enter buildings ? Are you talking about ruins ? Because buildings dont exist in the rules.

I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

Only problem is the 12" range of the relic staff.

I just had an interesting thought about the points decrease on vehicles - what if its an indirect buff to RP?

Think about it, what is really effective against infantry with RP? High rate of fire weapons that can overwhelm units, which typically deal 1-2 damage. What is effective against vehicles protected by QS? The same sort of weapon.

So if our vehicles are cheaper, we can field more of them as well as more infantry, so our opponents are forced to direct fire against more targets, meaning that more RP eligible models may survive long enough for RP to proc.

Another thing to note is that the units that have the best chance of proccing RP, troops and shieldguard, also received a price reduction.
Troops are generally taken in large enough numbers for RP to matter, and shieldguard are actually pretty damned durable. A min squad of 5 has as many wounds as 10 immortals, with a higher toughness stat and an invul to boot.

That only makes sense if you were taking THAT many vehicles in the first place. The new points aren't terrible at least, but our main mechanic is still too easily ignored.

Pyrothem wrote:
I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

As always, the bonus to Tesla units diminishes after the first +1.

It's better, for total damage dealing potential, to have two Tesla units at +1, rather than one at +2. So spread the love.

 Werekill wrote:

It's also something I hate about our HQs. Without psykers, we're kinda boring. We have some ok options, but there's nothing beyond very linear buffs. Imotekh is the closest we have to an interesting HQ option.

.

Our most interesting HQ's to use have got to be Zhandrekh and Obyron. You get one passive (Obyrons reroll wound aura), and 4 activated abilities (MWBD, Transient Madness, Counter Tactics, Ghostwalk Mantle). Plus the rarely used bonus abilities of Vargards Duty and Cleaving Counter Blow.

Counter Tactics will not come up that often, but the other 3 activated abilities should be used every turn. Ghostwalk Mantle, like all movement affecting abilities, provides huge tactical flexibility:

-You can obviously use the mantle to set up impressive plays where Zhandrek is Veiled/Dimensional Corridor-ed/Grand Illusioned/Tomb World Deployed across the board, and Obyron follows with a big unit of Lychguard, but it also works very well over short distances.

-They will always make one unit move about twice as fast every turn. Even when NZ and VO start a turn right next to each other, a 5" move + advance from NZ + Ghostwalking 6" in front of him, will let a nearby unit "hop" 12-18"- getting them in firing/charge range of a target they might not have reached otherwise.

-If CC occurs the mantle really shines; you can pull a unit out of combat and still shoot and/or charge afterwards -preventing a cheeky Wave Serpent shutting down Immortals, or launching Lychguard into a new fight able to strike first.

-Even when there's no unit you want to teleport the pair can be used to pull off a surprise assassination. Obyron is tied with Anrakyr for our killiest HQ choice (not including Novokh characters having a relic/WL trait wasted on them). NZ's move + advance+ ghostwalk + VOs charge = 17.5" average strike range, with the ability to jump over a screen in the middle. That distance can be increased with MWBD (on either or both), or with Solarmills? Charge!, or a CP reroll. I've bagged Slay The Warlord with this recently.


That ended up loner than intended. TLDR: This dynamic duo are more interesting to use than a pair of psykers form most armies.

The sole issue I have with Oby & Zahn is they come with Sautehk, which doesn't really support my usual playstyle

However, I'm hearing more and more about them so I'm wondering if I should

Battalion lead by a pair of crypteks to serve as shootoing line, Supreme Command of the big 3, Imo buffing the guns, Zahn being Decievered up the table (just the shard and Zahn is all you need for this to work, because suprise C'tan, bring a brick of Warriors if you wanna be a knob and score high), and then Oby coming in with a unit of Lychguard

it's a tactic I need to have a look at. Monolith might actually be a vlid choice to get even more people out up front if you score extremely well

Oby & Zahn are 275 pts. Thats insane for adding some movement to a single unit. Its at least 355 pts. to bring one unit across the map. Then they are stuck there, they would have to walk from there, unless you have a ghost ark which is another 135 pts., or a monolith for 321 pts. Neither of them excel at melee or shooting. They are not worth the points.

Here's a balanced list that fits in all our fun teleporting options whilst still having a solid core of powerful units:

Zhandrek
Obyron
Overlord + Veil + Voidscythe

10x Tesla Immortals
10x Tesla Immortals
10x Tesla Immortals

10x Lychguard

5x Destroyers

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
Monolith


Our teleporting tricks only work on infantry units, so there's 5 of them that can all pack a punch.

There are well over a dozen ways to chain the different teleporting mechanics together to allow you to pretty much put any unit anywhere, but I'm not going to go into them here. Having lots of options is the point of the list, but here are 2 possible opening tricks:

1: The classic: Veil Zhandrek > Ghostwalk Lychguard to Zhandrek > 3" charge for Lychguard.

2: Jump 4 souped up shooting units into the midfield:

-MWBD on all three Tesla squads from the Overlord+ Zhandrek+ Phaerons Will Strat. The Destroyers get their Extermination Protocols strat.
-One Tesla unit is Veiled to anywhere.
-One Tesla unit is Ghostwalked 15.5" forward from Zhandrek (Zhandreks advance 8.5"+ Ghostwalk range 6"+ 1" base size)
-One Tesla unit is Dimensional Corridor-ed 9" forward from the Monolith (3" disembark+ 1" base size+ 5" move)
-The Destroyers move forward 10" (plus an advance if necessary thanks to the Sautekh trait)

This negates our 24" range limitation nicely and all that shooting plus the DDAs, and maybe the Monolith, could do some serious damage. Throw in Methodical Destruction somewhere to top it off.

Oby & Zahn are 275 pts. Thats insane for adding some movement to a single unit. Its at least 355 pts. to bring one unit across the map. Then they are stuck there, they would have to walk from there, unless you have a ghost ark which is another 135 pts., or a monolith for 321 pts. Neither of them excel at melee or shooting. They are not worth the points.

I'm not suggesting that these two will be a feature of the most competitive lists, merely that they are very interesting to use. However, I would argue a few of your points:

1- They fill your 2 compulsory HQ slots so it's not an extra 275pts, they cost about 100pts more than 2 basic HQs. And they are adding movement to a unit every turn, as well as the ability to fall back and act normally. Plus they have better stats than the basic HQ versions, and a few extra abilities.

2- If you do use them to, for example, launch 10 Lychguard up the board, they are by no means "stuck there" in any negative sense. Firstly "there" is where the action is. There is a unit of Lychguard for them to support, and they can keep Ghostwalking them, which provides a significant amount of movement even when NZ and VO are right by each other.

3- They don't excel at shooting or melee because, like all Necron HQs, they are support characters. VO is pretty choppy in his own right though.

Pyrothem wrote:
I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

If you're going Sautekh, I'd just bring Imotekh to call the storm to easily proc Methodical Destruction.

Necronplayer wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

If you're going Sautekh, I'd just bring Imotekh to call the storm to easily proc Methodical Destruction.

Bear in mind that this interpretation of “attack” has not been consistently upheld at all events. Many different TOs have ruled on this differently—especially after the FAQ syntactical change.

 p5freak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimgold wrote:

I really want to make nightbringer work, he is a singularly good beat stick. The catch is his screen is a non-trivial issue, either he takes your scarabs with him, or you have to run him with praetorians. He can't keep up with wraiths, and tomb blades might work, but they are better off getting in to rapid fire range and melting faces. He can't go in transports, he doesn't get a dynasty keyword, and he can't enter buildings. Has anyone figured out a way around his failings or is one of my favorite models just going to continue collecting dust.

What makes you think he cant enter buildings ? Are you talking about ruins ? Because buildings dont exist in the rules.

Sorry I didn't explain that well, it's one of those ITC things, since the nightbringer is not infantry he can't go through walls, and since all FLG terrain has four walls that means he is more or less unable to enter buildings.

sieGermans wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

If you're going Sautekh, I'd just bring Imotekh to call the storm to easily proc Methodical Destruction.

Bear in mind that this interpretation of “attack” has not been consistently upheld at all events. Many different TOs have ruled on this differently—especially after the FAQ syntactical change.

This is true.

I recall when the codex originally came out, the disagreement on the wording of 'unsaved wound' was that it implied that you were taking a save roll and failing, excluding mortal wounds and therefore Imotekhs ability.

Now with the latest errata, they changed it to be attack that causes you to lose one or more wounds. In this context, mortal wounds can trigger it, but now the confusion is on the word 'attack'.

Hopefully we can get another FAQ response on this issue!

I think Immoteks storm quite clearly works for triggering MD now. Arguing otherwise is a real stretch.

Now that he costs 160pts he's cheaper than 2 Overlords which I think makes him a really good choice.

 Grimgold wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimgold wrote:

I really want to make nightbringer work, he is a singularly good beat stick. The catch is his screen is a non-trivial issue, either he takes your scarabs with him, or you have to run him with praetorians. He can't keep up with wraiths, and tomb blades might work, but they are better off getting in to rapid fire range and melting faces. He can't go in transports, he doesn't get a dynasty keyword, and he can't enter buildings. Has anyone figured out a way around his failings or is one of my favorite models just going to continue collecting dust.

What makes you think he cant enter buildings ? Are you talking about ruins ? Because buildings dont exist in the rules.

Sorry I didn't explain that well, it's one of those ITC things, since the nightbringer is not infantry he can't go through walls, and since all FLG terrain has four walls that means he is more or less unable to enter buildings.

With the fly keyword, walls don't really matter in the movement phase.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
1- They fill your 2 compulsory HQ slots so it's not an extra 275pts, they cost about 100pts more than 2 basic HQs. And they are adding movement to a unit every turn, as well as the ability to fall back and act normally. Plus they have better stats than the basic HQ versions, and a few extra abilities.

Good point, i didnt think of that.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
2- If you do use them to, for example, launch 10 Lychguard up the board, they are by no means "stuck there" in any negative sense. Firstly "there" is where the action is. There is a unit of Lychguard for them to support, and they can keep Ghostwalking them, which provides a significant amount of movement even when NZ and VO are right by each other.

Depends on who you play against. A fast moving army like (Dark) Eldar can choose to ignore you where you are and move away quickly. Thats what i meant with stuck there.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
3- They don't excel at shooting or melee because, like all Necron HQs, they are support characters. VO is pretty choppy in his own right though.

Not really pretty choppy. A SM captain with TH outperforms him, for less points. Im not talking about captain slamguinius here, just a regular captain.

Grimgold wrote:
Sorry I didn't explain that well, it's one of those ITC things, since the nightbringer is not infantry he can't go through walls, and since all FLG terrain has four walls that means he is more or less unable to enter buildings.

Is this a house rule ? Units with FLY ignore terrain and models in the movement phase.

 p5freak wrote:

Grimgold wrote:
Sorry I didn't explain that well, it's one of those ITC things, since the nightbringer is not infantry he can't go through walls, and since all FLG terrain has four walls that means he is more or less unable to enter buildings.

Is this a house rule ? Units with FLY ignore terrain and models in the movement phase.

He doesn't have the fly keyword during the charge phase, and can't move through ceilings or walls even when he is flying.

Based on all the love Z-Oby gets I thought I'd try to make a list with them included. So how's the following for 2k? My thoughts are that 5 shield lychguard are probably not very killy, so as to justify an entire redeploy + teleport combo, but I like it anyway and I wanna try it. It just feels impossible to me atm to make a list at 2k points, I feel it's too little.

I'd love some feedback on my list.

 Grimgold wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Grimgold wrote:
Sorry I didn't explain that well, it's one of those ITC things, since the nightbringer is not infantry he can't go through walls, and since all FLG terrain has four walls that means he is more or less unable to enter buildings.

Is this a house rule ? Units with FLY ignore terrain and models in the movement phase.

He doesn't have the fly keyword during the charge phase, and can't move through ceilings or walls even when he is flying.

He doesn't lose the fly keyword during the movement phase, but he can only ignore terrain and models during the movement phase...and that's exactly why he can move through walls and ceilings during the movement phase. Models with fly completely ignore terrain in the movement phase. The limitations on moving through walls only applies to normal movement.

 necr0n wrote:
Based on all the love Z-Oby gets I thought I'd try to make a list with them included. So how's the following for 2k? My thoughts are that 5 shield lychguard are probably not very killy, so as to justify an entire redeploy + teleport combo, but I like it anyway and I wanna try it. It just feels impossible to me atm to make a list at 2k points, I feel it's too little.

I'd love some feedback on my list.

Spoiler:

Battalion Sautekh: 1315pts

Zahndrekh - 150pts
Obyron - 125pts


10 Immortals - 150pts
10 Warriors - 110pts
10 Warriors - 110pts

5 Lychguard (shields) - 125pts

Deceiver - 225pts

Doomsday Ark - 160pts
Doomsday Ark - 160pts

Outrider Nephrekh: 677pts

Cloaktek (veil of darkness) - 85pts

5 Wraiths - 240pts
6 Destroyers - 300pts
4 Scarabs - 52pts

Total - 1992pts


Deceiver redeploys Zahndrek (for turn 1 obyron/Lychguard charge) / DDA depending on the game. Destroyers probably DS from Nephrekh stratagem. Wraiths try to get T1-T2 charge with Nephrekh advance + adaptive subroutines. Cloaktek's probably chasing the Destroyers around and trying to take them away from sticky situations with VoD.

You're paying way too many points for the movement tricks, while having precious little that benefits from them. One of the Arks should go to fill out that Lychguard unit for starters. I think the Cloaktek and Zahndrek/Obyron combo is enough, the Deceiver seems like overkill. I'd use those points to trade the warriors in for more full Immortal Squads.

 necr0n wrote:
Based on all the love Z-Oby gets I thought I'd try to make a list with them included. So how's the following for 2k? My thoughts are that 5 shield lychguard are probably not very killy, so as to justify an entire redeploy + teleport combo, but I like it anyway and I wanna try it. It just feels impossible to me atm to make a list at 2k points, I feel it's too little.

I'd love some feedback on my list.

Spoiler:

Battalion Sautekh: 1315pts

Zahndrekh - 150pts
Obyron - 125pts


10 Immortals - 150pts
10 Warriors - 110pts
10 Warriors - 110pts

5 Lychguard (shields) - 125pts

Deceiver - 225pts

Doomsday Ark - 160pts
Doomsday Ark - 160pts

Outrider Nephrekh: 677pts

Cloaktek (veil of darkness) - 85pts

5 Wraiths - 240pts
6 Destroyers - 300pts
4 Scarabs - 52pts

Total - 1992pts


Deceiver redeploys Zahndrek (for turn 1 obyron/Lychguard charge) / DDA depending on the game. Destroyers probably DS from Nephrekh stratagem. Wraiths try to get T1-T2 charge with Nephrekh advance + adaptive subroutines. Cloaktek's probably chasing the Destroyers arround and trying to take them away from sticky situations with VoD.

You're underpaying for your Lychguard. 5*(19+3+6)=5*28=140=/=125

I'd cut the Nephrekh stuff, there isn't room in your list for that I don't think, you want to get some actual use out of Obyron, however, as is your biggest Obyron target is a 150 pt unit and you only have 350 pts of Sautekh Infantry in addition to that. Get a 2x20 Warriors in there instead of the Wraiths and Scarabs. Cut the DDAs for a Ghost Ark and some more Lychguard or if you want to be more serious, cut the Lychguard entirely.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. The Nephrekh element is strong, but it's taking up so much that you're strangulating any chance of the Zahndrekh element to be worth its asking price, you'll probably find that out after a couple of games and then go back to playing a more cookie-cutter battalion with a Nephrekh outrider, which is probably going to be stronger than any Obyron list, but I think this manages to be weaker than something like that but also weaker than something that takes full advantage of what Obyron brings to the table.

 necr0n wrote:
Based on all the love Z-Oby gets I thought I'd try to make a list with them included. So how's the following for 2k? My thoughts are that 5 shield lychguard are probably not very killy, so as to justify an entire redeploy + teleport combo, but I like it anyway and I wanna try it. It just feels impossible to me atm to make a list at 2k points, I feel it's too little.

I'd love some feedback on my list.

Spoiler:

Battalion Sautekh: 1315pts

Zahndrekh - 150pts
Obyron - 125pts


10 Immortals - 150pts
10 Warriors - 110pts
10 Warriors - 110pts

5 Lychguard (shields) - 125pts

Deceiver - 225pts

Doomsday Ark - 160pts
Doomsday Ark - 160pts

Outrider Nephrekh: 677pts

Cloaktek (veil of darkness) - 85pts

5 Wraiths - 240pts
6 Destroyers - 300pts
4 Scarabs - 52pts

Total - 1992pts


Deceiver redeploys Zahndrek (for turn 1 obyron/Lychguard charge) / DDA depending on the game. Destroyers probably DS from Nephrekh stratagem. Wraiths try to get T1-T2 charge with Nephrekh advance + adaptive subroutines. Cloaktek's probably chasing the Destroyers arround and trying to take them away from sticky situations with VoD.

Like others have already said, I think you're spreading yourself too thin. Your list should commit to a gimmick and invest in it.

If the redeploy strat, I'd suggest changing the troops to MSU immortals and maxing out the lychguard.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Here's a balanced list that fits in all our fun teleporting options whilst still having a solid core of powerful units:

Zhandrek
Obyron
Overlord + Veil + Voidscythe

10x Tesla Immortals
10x Tesla Immortals
10x Tesla Immortals

10x Lychguard

5x Destroyers

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
Monolith


Our teleporting tricks only work on infantry units, so there's 5 of them that can all pack a punch.

There are well over a dozen ways to chain the different teleporting mechanics together to allow you to pretty much put any unit anywhere, but I'm not going to go into them here. Having lots of options is the point of the list, but here are 2 possible opening tricks:

1: The classic: Veil Zhandrek > Ghostwalk Lychguard to Zhandrek > 3" charge for Lychguard.

2: Jump 4 souped up shooting units into the midfield:

-MWBD on all three Tesla squads from the Overlord+ Zhandrek+ Phaerons Will Strat. The Destroyers get their Extermination Protocols strat.
-One Tesla unit is Veiled to anywhere.
-One Tesla unit is Ghostwalked 15.5" forward from Zhandrek (Zhandreks advance 8.5"+ Ghostwalk range 6"+ 1" base size)
-One Tesla unit is Dimensional Corridor-ed 9" forward from the Monolith (3" disembark+ 1" base size+ 5" move)
-The Destroyers move forward 10" (plus an advance if necessary thanks to the Sautekh trait)

This negates our 24" range limitation nicely and all that shooting plus the DDAs, and maybe the Monolith, could do some serious damage. Throw in Methodical Destruction somewhere to top it off.

Oby & Zahn are 275 pts. Thats insane for adding some movement to a single unit. Its at least 355 pts. to bring one unit across the map. Then they are stuck there, they would have to walk from there, unless you have a ghost ark which is another 135 pts., or a monolith for 321 pts. Neither of them excel at melee or shooting. They are not worth the points.

I'm not suggesting that these two will be a feature of the most competitive lists, merely that they are very interesting to use. However, I would argue a few of your points:

1- They fill your 2 compulsory HQ slots so it's not an extra 275pts, they cost about 100pts more than 2 basic HQs. And they are adding movement to a unit every turn, as well as the ability to fall back and act normally. Plus they have better stats than the basic HQ versions, and a few extra abilities.

2- If you do use them to, for example, launch 10 Lychguard up the board, they are by no means "stuck there" in any negative sense. Firstly "there" is where the action is. There is a unit of Lychguard for them to support, and they can keep Ghostwalking them, which provides a significant amount of movement even when NZ and VO are right by each other.

3- They don't excel at shooting or melee because, like all Necron HQs, they are support characters. VO is pretty choppy in his own right though.

This I want to try out. There is definitely potential in chaining end-of-movement teleporting shenanigans. It's hard to keep your head above water and do it right but it'll leave your enemy bedafled

Think I said this last time you posted 7 or so neat teleporting comboes but it still applies, I think it's awesome.

If any of you can spare the time, I've got a couple of questions that don't really relate to CA:

1) Why are Tesla Immortals so much more popular than Gauss ones?

I get that Tesla Immortals have synergy with MWBD, so I can understand including a unit of them per Overlord. However, it seems that Tesla is basically always taken even when someone is using far more Immortal units than Overlords. Is the AP-2 really not worth it? It seems like it gives the unit a lot more versatility.


2) What are your thoughts on the different Dynasty Codes?

My lists generally use:
- Destroyer Lord
- Overlord
- Immortals
- Wraiths
- Destroyers
- 1 Triarch Stalker
(I also have a CCB/Annihilation Barge, a few scarabs and 10 Deathmarks, some or all of which might actually see use now.)

Anyway, it just seems like there isn't any obvious option. Sautekh is useful for the Stalker but not much else, Novokh is okay for the Wraiths and D. Lord but not much else, Mephrit is okay for the Destroyers and poor or useless for everything else, Nephrekh is good for the Wraiths (and maybe the D. Lord) but mediocre or poor for everything else, and Nihilakh just seems crap on everything. Maybe they're just well-balanced, but that doesn't help me when it comes to choosing one.

Could someone give me some advice?

 vipoid wrote:
1) Why are Tesla Immortals so much more popular than Gauss ones?

MWBD synergy like you said, Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire 1 both so you can keep up full weight of fire and so you don't have to get dangerously close to achieve the weapon's full potential, and anti-horde utility without sacrificing too much general power--20 Tesla shots that generate another quarter or so again extra hits is nothing to sniff at against even 3+ saves. The only unit I'd be tempted to run Blasters on would be Tomb Blades, because they're far more able to utilise the Rapid Fire aspect, or Immortals you're planning to teleport or Veil into a backline somewhere you'll probably be in RF range as soon as you pop in.

Blasters just don't quite have the extra edge in anything like Tesla has against hordes, and unless you can guarantee they can both realibly get into and stay in RF range, they're not pulling nearly as much weight. That said, if you can, a Mephrit detatchment of them is hitting with AP-3. It's mainly getting them into that position that's tricky. Maybe if the Monolith did its job as a siege transport they'd be more viable.

Well at least at minimum Gauss Immortals have two niche roles for them:
1. Sautekh ones can advance and shoot. How much a utility that is? Meh.
2. Dropped out of a Flying Croissant.

That's maybe about it for now. They're not bad at all, but Tesla fulfills a need.

 vict0988 wrote:
Cut the DDAs for a Ghost Ark and some more Lychguard

... well that's the first time that's ever been suggested.


For me there's one simple thing that would make me want to take Lychguard that GW has refused to do after so many chances to fix it:
Mixed Wargear.
Allow Lychguard units to be able to take Warscythes AND Swords+Shields in the same unit and you'd fix one of their biggest issues. (all other armies are able to do so, hell even in our own codex are we allowed to do so (TBs), why are LG handicapped like this?)

torblind wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

As always, the bonus to Tesla units diminishes after the first +1.

It's better, for total damage dealing potential, to have two Tesla units at +1, rather than one at +2. So spread the love.

Agree - Imotekh and two Tesla Immortal units are the first thing added to every list I do.

So tried out my mixed list (below in spoilers) against a fairly nasty death guard list (3 plague burst crawlers, 3 blight drones, demon prince, a cultist blob, plague marines in rhinos, a couple of lords and a few support characters), and won 27 to 13 using ITC missions. Without getting into all of the gory details, the wraiths did their job and kept two plaugeburst crawlers tied up, killed a lord, reduced the cultist blob to three dudes, but we all know how good wraiths are. The double deploy lychstar functioned as well as I had hoped, dropping a plague burst crawler, two rhinos, three(?) characters, a squad of plague marines, and all of that just from getting shot out of the night scythe on turn 1, I never even needed to use the veil. The overlord with them died to an unfortunate set of botched rolls, but hey that's 40k for ya. Tomb blades more or less just kept the demon prince busy the whole game, he was never quite able to finish them off, and just enough would get up with reanimation protocols to keep him from wiping the squad the next round. Destroyers were ok, they dealt with the plague drones, cleaned up a squad of plague marines going for an objective, I wanted them to dunk the demon prince, but he was saved by the character rule. I'd say tying up the plaugebusrt crawlers is what won me the game, he had very few units with fly, so the lychstar and wraiths being in his gunline from turn 1 just shut down his offense.

Because I kept his heavy guns tied up, reanimation protocols really saved my bacon, I got back around back 8 lychguard (224 points), 3 destroyers (150 points), and 11 tomb blades (252 points) over six turns, it was an unassailable amount of snowball. My big problem is I burned through all of my CP by the end of the second round, which is why my overlord died on turn 3, with no chance to come back. Anyway Just thought I'd let you guys know how my crazy new idea worked out.

 vipoid wrote:

1) Why are Tesla Immortals so much more popular than Gauss ones?

I get that Tesla Immortals have synergy with MWBD, so I can understand including a unit of them per Overlord. However, it seems that Tesla is basically always taken even when someone is using far more Immortal units than Overlords. Is the AP-2 really not worth it? It seems like it gives the unit a lot more versatility.

There is a stratagem that lets you do MWBD twice, so only one overlord needed to buff two units. There is another stratagem that removes cover. Tesla is always two shots. Tesla can still shoot after advancing. Tesla always scores three hits when overwatching on a natural 6.

 vipoid wrote:

2) What are your thoughts on the different Dynasty Codes?

My lists generally use:
- Destroyer Lord
- Overlord
- Immortals
- Wraiths
- Destroyers
- 1 Triarch Stalker
(I also have a CCB/Annihilation Barge, a few scarabs and 10 Deathmarks, some or all of which might actually see use now.)

Anyway, it just seems like there isn't any obvious option. Sautekh is useful for the Stalker but not much else, Novokh is okay for the Wraiths and D. Lord but not much else, Mephrit is okay for the Destroyers and poor or useless for everything else, Nephrekh is good for the Wraiths (and maybe the D. Lord) but mediocre or poor for everything else, and Nihilakh just seems crap on everything. Maybe they're just well-balanced, but that doesn't help me when it comes to choosing one.

Could someone give me some advice?

Sautekh is useful for taking imotekh, and for any unit with heavy weapon that moves, it also gives you access to a stratagem which gives +1 to hit, which means tesla explodes on 4+. Imagine MWBD twice on two units of 10 tesla immortals. Targeting, and wounding, an enemy unit with the stalker, then using that stratagem on that enemy unit. 40 tesla shots hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1s. You can score 80 hits with this. Dont underestimate a 9 model unit of novokh scarabs. 36 attacks, re-rolling all failed hits. Mephrit is meh on footslogging infantry (although charging mephrit tesla immortals can be quite dangerous), but ok on flying units, its easier to get within half range, and they can still fallback and shoot in case they get attacked in melee. Nephrekh is good for deepstriking infantry (which includes (heavy) destroyers) and scarabs. Auto advancing 6", which benefits CC units like scarabs and wraith, who can still charge with a stratagem. Nihilakh is good for units that dont move, like the DDA. There is a nasty nihilakh stratagem which gives +1 to saves, if you didnt move, or are within 3" of an objective marker. If wraith manage to tie up a knight in CC they become pretty much indestructible with that stratagem, its a 2+ inv. The knight cant fallback because wraith arent infantry nor swarm. A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice. If you have two tvaults, both can get a 3+ inv.

Dont just look at the code only, there are stratagems involved as well, some are quite strong.

Luckily ive been given a part built triach stalker by a friend whats the best loadout for it?

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

Because the stratagem doesn't happen in a phase, it can be used multiple times in.

daismith906 wrote:
Luckily ive been given a part built triach stalker by a friend whats the best loadout for it?

Gauss if you want it to support DDAs or if you're planning on being agressive, Particle if your want it to support Warriors. Heat if you're expecting your opponent to be agressive. Gauss is the most versatile because of range and is what I'd recommend if you're building your first one, it's not like the 4 extra shots with Particle is going to make a huge difference against Orks anyway if that is what you're shooting at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

Because the stratagem doesn't happen in a phase, it can be used multiple times in.

Very overrated. It won't protect the rest of your army, paying 4 CP is a total waste in most circumstances. The Sautekh Strat increases your firepower by 50% if you're just gunning down a huge blob of whatever, while less meaningful your opponent can't play around it in the same way you can with the Nihilakh Strat.

Immortals, Gauss vs. Tesla

Tesla all the way.

-The maths shows that it's better against more targets, especially at 24" which is where you want to be.
-In practice I've found that Tesla scares people, while Gauss feels like nothing until you get in 12".
-Tesla benefits much more from MWBD, and you will always have 2-3 uses of MWBD in a list.
-Tesla Immortals are our best unit at what they do: anti horde
-Gauss Immortals provide AP, everything has AP in our army (if it isn't Tesla)- Both Destroyers, Wraith, Lychguard, DDAs, Pretorians, Warriors, Monolith, HQ weapons, C'tan... We have so much AP that invul saves are one of our biggest problems to deal with.

So, Tesla is far better at doing it's job than Gauss is, and Teslas job is one that actually needs doing.


Dynasty Traits

The problem with our Dynasties is that none of them are very good in general- they only really help specific units.

Mephrit: This is a really good boost for rapid fire weapons.
Novokh: Obviously for CC units, but not Pretorians, or C'tan, and won't do a lot for Lychguard (or Flayed ones lol) if you're using MWBD. So Wraith and Scarabs.
Nephrek: Also Nice for Wraith and Scarabs due to the advance and charge strat.
Nihilak: DDAs.
Sautekh: Mandatory for Doom Scythes and Tomb Sentinels. Handy on DDAs and Gauss Cannon Anni Barges.

All of these can help other units, a little bit, sometimes.

If you're spamming a particular type of unit from the above there may be an obvious Dynasty, but most lists don't seem to be. So it comes down to the stratagems, Warlord Traits, and special characters (The Veil is the only relic). Since the FAQ to first turn reserves nerfed Nephrek, there is one clear winner in all three of these options: Sautekh.

Sautekh is the default Dynasty. Only when your list skews heavily in a specific direction should you consider anything else.



More on Zhandrek and Obyron (because I can't help ranting about them)

If we assume that both characters move and advance an average of 8.5" before using the Ghostwalk Mantle, and that the target unit also moves 5", then the ability effectively means:

-Draw a 39" diameter circle centered on Obyron.

-Draw a 31" diameter circle centered on Zhandrek.

-Any infantry unit in Obyrons circle can be moved to anywhere in Zhandreks circle.

That's a massive amount of board. If NZ and VO start the turn holding hands in the middle of the board, you can teleport a unit from your deployment zone into your opponents deployment zone.


If you take a Monolith (maybe you shouldn't lol), and use Dimensional Corridor(DC) on either NZ, VO, or the target unit prior to Ghostwalking, then additionally:

-Any unit in Obyrons circle can be moved to anywhere in Zhandreks circle, or anywhere in a 45" diameter circle centered on the Monolith -(DC NZ)

-Any unit in Obyrons circle, or within a 53" diameter circle centered on the Monolith, can be moved to anywhere in Zhandrekhs circle -(DC VO)

-If the Monolith is within 4" of Obyrons circle, any infantry unit on the board can be moved to anywhere in Zandrekhs circle -(DC the unit)


That's an awesome set of mechanics to have access to in a strategy game, and adds some real depth to the army. Competative? Probably not, but many opponents are not going to be able to keep track of all the things that could happen.

Love these rants, problem of course is that you yourself likely end up as confused as the opponent.

But it sure offers a game mechanic that's wildly different from simply moving opposing forces towards one another hoping your offence will be stronger than his defence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do you draw a. 31" circle around NZ?

He moves 8.5", VO picks up a unit somewhere else and puts them within 6" of NZ, doesn't that them become a 14.5" circle

Agreed about the dynasty traits. They are really limited and don't do anything to benefit the army as a whole. I don't know if its a difference in design policy, incompetence or malice, but compared to what other factions get, they are more or less useless unless you have a really specific build in mind.

If the necron codex is to be redone, the dynasty traits should be the first on the block.

torblind wrote:
Love these rants, problem of course is that you yourself likely end up as confused as the opponent.

But it sure offers a game mechanic that's wildly different from simply moving opposing forces towards one another hoping your offence will be stronger than his defence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do you draw a. 31" circle around NZ?

He moves 8.5", VO picks up a unit somewhere else and puts them within 6" of NZ, doesn't that them become a 14.5" circle

Right, with advance, he'll move 8.5". If he gives himself MWBD, it will be 9.5" from his initial spot. VO picks them up and adds a another 6" so 15.5" total from his initial spot.

If you chose to move NZ in the opposite direction instead, then you double that value.

<-----15.5"-----> NZ <------15.5"------->

Necronplayer wrote:

torblind wrote:
Love these rants, problem of course is that you yourself likely end up as confused as the opponent.

But it sure offers a game mechanic that's wildly different from simply moving opposing forces towards one another hoping your offence will be stronger than his defence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do you draw a. 31" circle around NZ?

He moves 8.5", VO picks up a unit somewhere else and puts them within 6" of NZ, doesn't that them become a 14.5" circle

Right, with advance, he'll move 8.5". If he gives himself MWBD, it will be 9.5" from his initial spot. VO picks them up and adds a another 6" so 15.5" total from his initial spot.

If you chose to move NZ in the opposite direction instead, then you double that value.

<-----15.5"-----> NZ <------15.5"------->

Oh I was thinking radius but I rereading I see that he says diameter of course. I guess it make senses since its the total distance traveled by target unit.

Yeah, diameter. Also the extra inch is the teleported units base size, only the edge of the base needs to be within 6" of Zhan. I suppose you can also add an inch to the diameters for Zhan and Obys base sizes.

problem of course is that you yourself likely end up as confused as the opponent.

Too right. I spent a silly amount of time figuring out how to write the options in a succinct manner in that post above.

Had my first game since CA on Wednesday. It was 1250 points vs Gaurd and I tabled him on on turn 6. 14 Victory points to 4. This had more to do with him not playing very well than anything else though

IanVanCheese wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

Because the stratagem doesn't happen in a phase, it can be used multiple times in.

Discussion and logic. TL;DR, End of Morale phase = End of Turn.

So....wut?

Really silly list that should never be played:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Really silly list that should never be played:

Spoiler:

Zandrekh
Obyron
Overlord + Veil

10x tesla imm
10x tesla imm
10x tesla imm

10x Scytheguard
10x Scytheguard
10x Scytheguard

Monolith


The monolith is deployed hiding in a corner as best it can. 2 units of Scythguard try and hide with it, or go in Tomb World deployment.

1st turn: Veil Zhandrek to the enemy, and Ghostwalk a Scythguard unit to him for a 3" charge

2nd turn: Dimensional Corridor Obyron back to the monolith to pick up another Scytheguard unit; Ghostwalk said unit to Zhandrek and charge.

3rd turn: Dimensional Corridor Obyron back to the monolith to pick up another Scytheguard unit; Ghostwalk said unit to Zhandrek and charge.

What you mean is a fantastic list that should absolutely be used.

That sounds like great fun

hilariously impotent

but great fun

Take an exalt

 DV8 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

Because the stratagem doesn't happen in a phase, it can be used multiple times in.

Discussion and logic. TL;DR, End of Morale phase = End of Turn.

So....wut?

TLR of one post in that thread, but there is no definitive ruling on this. AFAIK tournaments have been ruling that end of turn does not count as in a phase so it can be used multiple times. I wouldn't advise in though, it's a pretty gross use of CP for a unit that can just be ignored that turn.

IanVanCheese wrote:


What you mean is a fantastic list that should absolutely be used.

If the first Lychguard unit had sheilds and played the 3++ strat to keep Zhan alive it might work... nah.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:


What you mean is a fantastic list that should absolutely be used.

If the first Lychguard unit had shields and played the 3++ strat to keep Zhan alive it might work... nah.

Stop tempting me to buy 20 more Lychguard and a Monolith. Seriously, knock it off.

I do, however, have a monolith collecting dust and a unit of lychguard that are growing real tired of walking

I am intending to bulk them out to 10 soon, and this might be my excuse

It's a hell of a distraction and with three full units of Immortals, you should be able to grab objectives and provide supporting fire.

I genuinely think this is a decent list idea. If the monolith was good, it'd be even better.

Monolith aint inherantly bad tho, just overcosted (less so come tomorrow, but still a little)

I am thinking I will try this tactic out

Cynista wrote:
Had my first game since CA on Wednesday. It was 1250 points vs Gaurd and I tabled him on on turn 6. 14 Victory points to 4. This had more to do with him not playing very well than anything else though

Spoiler:

I took:

Mephrit

Lord w/ sword & veil
Cryptek (warlord) w/ chrono & mephrit warlord trait

3x5 Tesla Immortals

5 Destroyers (1 was heavy)

DDA

Nightbringer

4 Wraiths

6 Scarabs


He took (as best as I can remember):

Company commander
Primaris Psyker
Commissar

2 platoon commanders
2 command squads

2 veteran squads
4 infantry squads - all with heavy weapons
2 chimeras

Vindicare Assassin

Leman Russ

Basilisk

2 scout sentinels

1 heavy weapons squad of lascannons


Let's just say I wasn't very confident going into the game, given the amount of forces he was able to take. But I was very aggressive and luckily I got first turn.

-My DDA just about had line of sight on his LRBT and popped it first turn.
-The Wraiths sprinted up my right flank and used the strat to make an 8 inch charge into a very poorly placed infantry squad.
-Veiled the Lord and one squad of Immortals behind his flamer squad on his right flank and killed them all.
-NB was a big disappointment all game. Powers were underwhelming and when he got into combat on turn 4, destroyed a chimera but then spent the next 5 combat phases failing to kill anything at all.
-Scarabs killed a sentinel and the DDA killed the other one
-His Basilisk and heavy weapons killed 4 Destroyers who were rubbish in the first 2 turns, doing almost nothing.
-Vindicare sniped my Cryptek dead by the end of turn 2. That thing is a steal for 80 points.
-Wraiths daisy chained onto the Basilisk on turn 2, rolling 10 inches for the charge and surrounding it. Killed it on turn 3
-Lord and Immortals charged his vets, spent the rest of the game in combat, the only significant damage to either particiant coming from exploding chimera
-3 Destroyers got back up and then they went to work, slaughtering everything for the remainder of the game.
-He shot a lot into my Wraiths and used smite and the Assasin to finish them all off on turn 4
-Other 2 squads of Immortals mopped up the rest of his infantry
-Game ended with heroic last stand of his HQ's in combat against my Scarabs, Nightbringer and Destroyers

In my next game against the same guy which will be 1500p, I will drop the NB because I feel he's not suited to this matchup and take a Triarch Stalker instead

There isn't too much for the NB to swing at in an AM army. Not many high toughness non-vehicles there. Nice with the heroic finale!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Really silly list that should never be played:

Spoiler:

Zandrekh
Obyron
Overlord + Veil

10x tesla imm
10x tesla imm
10x tesla imm

10x Scytheguard
10x Scytheguard
10x Scytheguard

Monolith


The monolith is deployed hiding in a corner as best it can. 2 units of Scythguard try and hide with it, or go in Tomb World deployment.

1st turn: Veil Zhandrek to the enemy, and Ghostwalk a Scythguard unit to him for a 3" charge

2nd turn: Dimensional Corridor Obyron back to the monolith to pick up another Scytheguard unit; Ghostwalk said unit to Zhandrek and charge.

3rd turn: Dimensional Corridor Obyron back to the monolith to pick up another Scytheguard unit; Ghostwalk said unit to Zhandrek and charge.

What you mean is a fantastic list that should absolutely be used.

Absolutely!

Prior to CA leaks I was bored with my tournament list so I was running a Novokh Deciever/Monolith bomb with Anrakyr+S&B Lychguard & warrior blobs for a few games and won 3 out of 3. Not once did I go first and never got over a two for grand illusion so I didn't get the fun "my entire army is 3-13 inches off your front line on turn one" jank, but it made for some fun, micromanage style games.

Now that's not saying it's a good list as I was not playing against top tier tournament lists, but it can work and be fun in a casual environment. Even more so with points drops.

I have a 6000 point APOC game coming up. I could use some advice, never fielded this much of my collection before at a time. Enemies are going to be mixed imperials (3 players vs 1), to compensate, since they each get 3 battleforged points a pop, I will be getting 9 for myself for battleforged (bringing me up to 33 cp)

Looks solid honestly

Not sure what we can say besides "good luck"

Your supreme command could take a Lord, overlord and cryptek for maximum sentry buffs. MWBD does everything nihilak does, so you could swap the dynasty to allow the characters to buff other units, or leave it for maximum buffs

Thanks for the advice regarding Dynasty Codes, guys.

DV8 wrote:TL;DR, End of Morale phase = End of Turn.

So....wut?

The end of your morale phase is not the end of your turn, otherwise reclaim a lost empire would say that you play it at the end of your morale phase. But thats not what the stratagem says. Likewise, the start of your turn isnt the movement phase either. You start your turn with MWBD, roll for RP, and regain lost wounds with living metal. All of this happens before your movement phase. Your movement phase starts when you pick one of your units and move the models. From the core rules, movement phase :

Start your Movement phase by picking
one of your units and moving each model
in that unit until you’ve moved all the
models you want to.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I have a 6000 point APOC game coming up. I could use some advice, never fielded this much of my collection before at a time. Enemies are going to be mixed imperials (3 players vs 1), to compensate, since they each get 3 battleforged points a pop, I will be getting 9 for myself for battleforged (bringing me up to 33 cp)

I would run 6 seraptek heavy constructs in two super heavy detachments

PSA: I've seen several posts mentioning the triarch stalker benefiting from dynasty codes and using it to trigger the sautekh +1 to hit strategem. The triarch stalker does not gain dynastic codes ir the dynasty keywords, so it cannot do either of these things.

IanVanCheese wrote:
It's a hell of a distraction and with three full units of Immortals, you should be able to grab objectives and provide supporting fire.

I genuinely think this is a decent list idea. If the monolith was good, it'd be even better.

The immortals could be dropped down to 3 units of 5, as they won't be getting much MWBD love. Then get 3 min size units of Tesla Tomb blades to go with them. That would be better for grabbing objectives while the stream of Lychguard provide a distraction. 6 MSU with Tesla can make pretty nice use of Methodical Destruction too.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
It's a hell of a distraction and with three full units of Immortals, you should be able to grab objectives and provide supporting fire.

I genuinely think this is a decent list idea. If the monolith was good, it'd be even better.

The immortals could be dropped down to 3 units of 5, as they won't be getting much MWBD love. Then get 3 min size units of Tesla Tomb blades to go with them. That would be better for grabbing objectives while the stream of Lychguard provide a distraction. 6 MSU with Tesla can make pretty nice use of Methodical Destruction too.

Spoiler:

Zhandrekh
Obyron
Cryptek + veil

5x Tesla Imms
5x Tesla Imms
5x Tesla Imms

10x Shieldguard
10x Scytheguard
10x Scytheguard

3x Tesla Tomb Blades
3x Tesla Tomb Blades
3x Tesla Tomb Blades

Monolith

Another overlord standing next the monolith could buff the lychguard standing next to the monolith with MWBD, they would retain the buff when they are ghostwalked. This could be a fun list if the monolith is another 50 points cheaper, and the lychguard lose 5 more points per model. They are still overpriced. Zahn would need some protection from not getting shot where he stands.

So, with the Battlescribe files updated, I finally got a cost up for my take on the Zahn/Oby shennanigans list

Note, this isnt optimised because of model constraints (i.e., I dont have half the stuff to make it real good)

But, for 1750 points, thoughts?

Hey friends, how are monoliths looking now with the points drop? Still garbage or can they be fielded without being laughed at?

They're still overcosted and outgunned, but not to a crippling degree.

you can still take 2 DDAs to one Mono, so most people will go DDAs, but thanis to the new affordability of teleportation abominations, they may be coming off shelves

dont know if that helps or if I just confused you more....

Any thoughts on this list:



If you're wondering, I made the Destroyer Lord my Warlord so that I could try out Crimson Haze - which is about as close as he can come to actually buffing Wraiths and Scarabs. I wasn't sure whether to upgrade his weapon (to make the most of the Novohk ability and Crimson Haze) or his defence (to mitigate the risk of making him my warlord in the first place). I went with the casket, but I'm open to taking one of the Relic Warscythes instead if you think they'd be better.

The rest is mostly shooting stuff. I thought I'd give Imotekh a go at his new price (and since I have the model). Same for the Annihilation Barge. I was torn between taking a Chronometron Cryptek or the Necron Lord. In the end, I went with the Lord because it let me add 2 extra Scarabs and brought the list to a nice, round 2000pts.

Anyway, any advice or suggestions you can give would be most welcome.

 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on this list:

Spoiler:

Sautekh Battalion
Imotekh the Stormlord - 160
Necron Lord w/ Warscythe - 74
10 Immortals (Tesla) - 150
10 Immortals (Tesla) - 150
10 Immortals (Tesla) - 150
Triarch Stalker (Heavy Gauss) - 125
6 Destroyers - 300

Sautekh Spearhead
Overlord w/ Warscythe - 93 Veil of Darkness
Annihilation Barge (Gauss Cannon) - 120
1 Heavy Destroyer - 50
1 Heavy Destroyer - 50

Novohk Spearhead
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery - 129 The Nanoscarab Casket (Warlord: Crimson Haze)
4 Wraiths - 192
4 Wraiths - 192
5 Scarabs - 65

2000pts (10/9 CPs)

I would drop the sautekh spearhead and use the points for two more stalkers and more wraith/scarabs. A buffing unit (like the dlord) needs lots of models to buff, otherwise he is not used efficiently. Like this :

 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on this list:

Spoiler:

Sautekh Battalion
Imotekh the Stormlord - 160
Necron Lord w/ Warscythe - 74
10 Immortals (Tesla) - 150
10 Immortals (Tesla) - 150
10 Immortals (Tesla) - 150
Triarch Stalker (Heavy Gauss) - 125
6 Destroyers - 300

Sautekh Spearhead
Overlord w/ Warscythe - 93 Veil of Darkness
Annihilation Barge (Gauss Cannon) - 120
1 Heavy Destroyer - 50
1 Heavy Destroyer - 50

Novohk Spearhead
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery - 129 The Nanoscarab Casket (Warlord: Crimson Haze)
4 Wraiths - 192
4 Wraiths - 192
5 Scarabs - 65

2000pts (10/9 CPs)

If you're wondering, I made the Destroyer Lord my Warlord so that I could try out Crimson Haze - which is about as close as he can come to actually buffing Wraiths and Scarabs. I wasn't sure whether to upgrade his weapon (to make the most of the Novohk ability and Crimson Haze) or his defence (to mitigate the risk of making him my warlord in the first place). I went with the casket, but I'm open to taking one of the Relic Warscythes instead if you think they'd be better.

The rest is mostly shooting stuff. I thought I'd give Imotekh a go at his new price (and since I have the model). Same for the Annihilation Barge. I was torn between taking a Chronometron Cryptek or the Necron Lord. In the end, I went with the Lord because it let me add 2 extra Scarabs and brought the list to a nice, round 2000pts.

Anyway, any advice or suggestions you can give would be most welcome.

I wouldn't take Imotekh if I wasn't going to make him my WL. Downgrading him to an Overlord with a Voidblade and cutting two Scarabs should let you bump one of the Wraith units to 6 to make the most of Stratagems. I wouldn't take Heavy Destroyers when I'm bringing a Triarch Stalker, but I did once run a Triarch Stalker in a Nihilakh list, so do what you want I suppose.

 p5freak wrote:

I would drop the sautekh spearhead and use the points for two more stalkers and more wraith/scarabs. A buffing unit (like the dlord) needs lots of models to buff, otherwise he is not used efficiently. Like this :

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [63 PL, 1053pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Imotekh the Stormlord [10 PL, 160pts]

Lord [5 PL, 68pts]: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 125pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 125pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 125pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [55 PL, 939pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 129pts]: Artefact: The Nanoscarab Casket, Phylactery, Warscythe
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Novokh): Crimson Haze

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 117pts]: 9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 117pts]: 9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 288pts]: 6x Canoptek Wraith

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 288pts]: 6x Canoptek Wraith

++ Total: [118 PL, 1992pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I see your point, though I fear I don't currently have 3 Stalkers, 12 Wraiths or 18 Scarabs.

I guess it's something I could try to build towards. Thank you.

 vict0988 wrote:

I wouldn't take Imotekh if I wasn't going to make him my WL. Downgrading him to an Overlord with a Voidblade and cutting two Scarabs should let you bump one of the Wraith units to 6 to make the most of Stratagems. I wouldn't take Heavy Destroyers when I'm bringing a Triarch Stalker, but I did once run a Triarch Stalker in a Nihilakh list, so do what you want I suppose.

So Imotekh isn't worth it for his gun and extra use of MWBD?

Either way, looks like I need more Wraiths. Guess I'd better get converting.

Cheers, guys.

I'm just gonna say I like how full my lists feel after the points cut for CA. It means 5 man immortal squads go to 10, more support elements, more big guns.

So far, its a positive

IanVanCheese wrote:

 DV8 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

Because the stratagem doesn't happen in a phase, it can be used multiple times in.

Discussion and logic. TL;DR, End of Morale phase = End of Turn.

So....wut?

TLR of one post in that thread, but there is no definitive ruling on this. AFAIK tournaments have been ruling that end of turn does not count as in a phase so it can be used multiple times. I wouldn't advise in though, it's a pretty gross use of CP for a unit that can just be ignored that turn.

I don't know if there has been a ruling elsewhere, but directly from CA 2018:

"The same Stratagem cannot be used by the same player
more than once during any single phase. This does not
affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such
as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a
battle round’."

I've used the DLord warlord Novokh with phlactry and the void reaper, hes a murderer, outrider with 18 scarabs and 6 wraiths. That relic weapon is just amazing with awakened by murder and haze. You could make the case for the blood scythe for more attacks but I find the 3D and basically autohitting/wounding is awesome.

I used that detachment to support a mephrit battalion but found the Novokh dudes doing most of the work. I would consider even using minimum strength Immortals being dropped off by Night Scythes to score objectives while the novokhs tie up the center of the board.

Necronplayer wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 DV8 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

Because the stratagem doesn't happen in a phase, it can be used multiple times in.

Discussion and logic. TL;DR, End of Morale phase = End of Turn.

So....wut?

TLR of one post in that thread, but there is no definitive ruling on this. AFAIK tournaments have been ruling that end of turn does not count as in a phase so it can be used multiple times. I wouldn't advise in though, it's a pretty gross use of CP for a unit that can just be ignored that turn.

I don't know if there has been a ruling elsewhere, but directly from CA 2018:

"The same Stratagem cannot be used by the same player
more than once during any single phase. This does not
affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such
as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a
battle round’."

“‘at end of a battle round’” =/= “at end of turn”

sieGermans wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 DV8 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

Because the stratagem doesn't happen in a phase, it can be used multiple times in.

Discussion and logic. TL;DR, End of Morale phase = End of Turn.

So....wut?

TLR of one post in that thread, but there is no definitive ruling on this. AFAIK tournaments have been ruling that end of turn does not count as in a phase so it can be used multiple times. I wouldn't advise in though, it's a pretty gross use of CP for a unit that can just be ignored that turn.

I don't know if there has been a ruling elsewhere, but directly from CA 2018:

"The same Stratagem cannot be used by the same player
more than once during any single phase. This does not
affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such
as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a
battle round’."

“‘at end of a battle round’” =/= “at end of turn”

I never said it did...

GW has been pretty good on specifying when to use an ability or stratagem. I imagine if they meant end of Morale phase, they would have specified it just like they have for many others,

Gravitic Singularity - Start of shooting phase
Cosmic power - Start of movement
Blood Rites - End of fight phase
Etc.

sieGermans wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 DV8 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

Because the stratagem doesn't happen in a phase, it can be used multiple times in.

Discussion and logic. TL;DR, End of Morale phase = End of Turn.

So....wut?

TLR of one post in that thread, but there is no definitive ruling on this. AFAIK tournaments have been ruling that end of turn does not count as in a phase so it can be used multiple times. I wouldn't advise in though, it's a pretty gross use of CP for a unit that can just be ignored that turn.

I don't know if there has been a ruling elsewhere, but directly from CA 2018:

"The same Stratagem cannot be used by the same player
more than once during any single phase. This does not
affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such
as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a
battle round’."

“‘at end of a battle round’” =/= “at end of turn”

'Such as' being the key phrase there then. Stratagems that happen at the end of the turn do not happen in any specific phase and are therefore not limited to once per phase limitations.

I mean, giving a Tesseract Vault a 2++ would be hilarious...

So here is my current list. It's by no means perfect, but I think it's pretty beefy.

Tell me what ya'll think.



Gves me 10 command points, and I'll likely make Immotekh my warlord. His ability is not as good as before, but still pretty decent. Being able to MWBD two different immortal squads is also very powerful. If I need to move the DD arks I can still fire the low-power version without too much trouble. I think this list gives us a little bit of everything. The question is, is Immotekh worth 4 Immortals over a regular Overlord?

 Sasori wrote:
So here is my current list. It's by no means perfect, but I think it's pretty beefy.

Tell me what ya'll think.

Spoiler:

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [125 PL, 1993pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Imotekh the Stormlord

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals: 6x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon


.

Gves me 10 command points, and I'll likely make Immotekh my warlord. His ability is not as good as before, but still pretty decent. Being able to MWBD two different immortal squads is also very powerful. If I need to move the DD arks I can still fire the low-power version without too much trouble. I think this list gives us a little bit of everything. The question is, is Immotekh worth 4 Immortals over a regular Overlord?

I think he is, but not for his Warlord trait. The storm ability is nothing to be sniffed at, he's giving you an extra CP and saving you CP that you'd spend on Phaeron's Will. I'd say that justifies the cost. His Beefier staff is icing on the cake. Honestly, I think we tend to burn through CP too quickly to really benefit from his Warlord trait now there is a cap on regen. But I can't really think of anything better.

The real question you have is, is he worth not being able to fit that 6th destroyer in? Personally, I'd drop a Stalker, add the last destroyer and then fill out the final Immortal unit.

Alright folks, listen up. I've got a weird tourney coming up and I need your help making a list:
It's a 4v4. every player bringing 500 points for a total of 2000 points. So me and my buddies will be playing SM, Orks, Tau and Necrons

So... what the hell do I bring as Necrons? A warrior-heavy list will get shot down in one turn (as there technically is 2000p worth of firepower on the opposite side)
And if I take vehicles, my enemies will just turn their anti-tank to my allies' vehicles instead of my QS.

I'm thinking of either of the following two/ lists:
Cloaktek
9x Immortals
9x Tomb Blades, tesla, shield vanes

This list is simple: it focuses on anti-infantry. While I'm sure the enemy can take down 9 Tomb Blades, it will take them quite a while.

2nd list:
Overlord
6x Immortals
2x DDA

This list cán work, because of the following reason: If my Tau ally takes a decent amount of shield drones next to his riptide and the SM/ork doesn't take any vehicles, the enemy can only shoot their anti-tank at big targets with either QS or covered by drones.


What do you guys think?

Doctoralex wrote:
Alright folks, listen up. I've got a weird tourney coming up and I need your help making a list:
It's a 4v4. every player bringing 500 points for a total of 2000 points. So me and my buddies will be playing SM, Orks, Tau and Necrons

So... what the hell do I bring as Necrons? A warrior-heavy list will get shot down in one turn (as there technically is 2000p worth of firepower on the opposite side)
And if I take vehicles, my enemies will just turn their anti-tank to my allies' vehicles instead of my QS.

I'm thinking of either of the following two/ lists:
Cloaktek
9x Immortals
9x Tomb Blades, tesla, shield vanes

This list is simple: it focuses on anti-infantry. While I'm sure the enemy can take down 9 Tomb Blades, it will take them quite a while.

2nd list:
Overlord
6x Immortals
2x DDA

This list cán work, because of the following reason: If my Tau ally takes a decent amount of shield drones next to his riptide and the SM/ork doesn't take any vehicles, the enemy can only shoot their anti-tank at big targets with either QS or covered by drones.


What do you guys think?

Depends what your teammates are bringing. Why would your warriors get smashed if your teammates all brought much scarier stuff? Anyway, neither list does it for me. I think DDAs are the most generically useful thing you can bring, but the Overlord is just a paperweight in that list. Just bring three Heavy hitting units IMO. 3 DDAs and some scarabs.

Doctoralex wrote:
Alright folks, listen up. I've got a weird tourney coming up and I need your help making a list:
It's a 4v4. every player bringing 500 points for a total of 2000 points. So me and my buddies will be playing SM, Orks, Tau and Necrons

So... what the hell do I bring as Necrons? A warrior-heavy list will get shot down in one turn (as there technically is 2000p worth of firepower on the opposite side)
And if I take vehicles, my enemies will just turn their anti-tank to my allies' vehicles instead of my QS.

I'm thinking of either of the following two/ lists:
Cloaktek
9x Immortals
9x Tomb Blades, tesla, shield vanes

This list is simple: it focuses on anti-infantry. While I'm sure the enemy can take down 9 Tomb Blades, it will take them quite a while.

2nd list:
Overlord
6x Immortals
2x DDA

This list cán work, because of the following reason: If my Tau ally takes a decent amount of shield drones next to his riptide and the SM/ork doesn't take any vehicles, the enemy can only shoot their anti-tank at big targets with either QS or covered by drones.


What do you guys think?

3rd list:
Necron Superheavy Auxiliary
Nihilakh Gauss Pylon (no re-roll 1s)
4th list:
Novokh Outrider
DLord -1 D WL trait and Nanoscarab Casket
Nightbringer
3 Scarabs
3 Scarabs
7 Scarabs

Last list is my favourite. Cosmic Fire and Transdimensional Thunderbolt on the Nightbringer. Losing the Scarabs isn't the end of the world, you can hide behind Orks. I'm concerned whether your lists need to be battleforged, because your second list is 3-1=2 CP.

 Sasori wrote:
So here is my current list. It's by no means perfect, but I think it's pretty beefy.

Tell me what ya'll think.

Spoiler:

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [125 PL, 1993pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Imotekh the Stormlord

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals: 6x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon


.

Gves me 10 command points, and I'll likely make Immotekh my warlord. His ability is not as good as before, but still pretty decent. Being able to MWBD two different immortal squads is also very powerful. If I need to move the DD arks I can still fire the low-power version without too much trouble. I think this list gives us a little bit of everything. The question is, is Immotekh worth 4 Immortals over a regular Overlord?

You only get 9CP, 3 from battleforged, 5 from battalion, 1 from outrider.

Imhotek's passive gives +1 CP

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
So here is my current list. It's by no means perfect, but I think it's pretty beefy.

Tell me what ya'll think.

Spoiler:

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [125 PL, 1993pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Imotekh the Stormlord

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals: 6x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon


.

Gves me 10 command points, and I'll likely make Immotekh my warlord. His ability is not as good as before, but still pretty decent. Being able to MWBD two different immortal squads is also very powerful. If I need to move the DD arks I can still fire the low-power version without too much trouble. I think this list gives us a little bit of everything. The question is, is Immotekh worth 4 Immortals over a regular Overlord?

I think he is, but not for his Warlord trait. The storm ability is nothing to be sniffed at, he's giving you an extra CP and saving you CP that you'd spend on Phaeron's Will. I'd say that justifies the cost. His Beefier staff is icing on the cake. Honestly, I think we tend to burn through CP too quickly to really benefit from his Warlord trait now there is a cap on regen. But I can't really think of anything better.

The real question you have is, is he worth not being able to fit that 6th destroyer in? Personally, I'd drop a Stalker, add the last destroyer and then fill out the final Immortal unit.

Yeah, I've thought about it. I really wanted to try out 5 QS vehicles on the table first, to see how hard it is for my meta to handle. I would like the 6th destroyer, but I'd likely trade a single wraith for it before swapping out the stalker. Still, if they don't work out that well it's an easy switch up.

Blndmage wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
So here is my current list. It's by no means perfect, but I think it's pretty beefy.

Tell me what ya'll think.

Spoiler:

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [125 PL, 1993pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Imotekh the Stormlord

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals: 6x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon


.

Gves me 10 command points, and I'll likely make Immotekh my warlord. His ability is not as good as before, but still pretty decent. Being able to MWBD two different immortal squads is also very powerful. If I need to move the DD arks I can still fire the low-power version without too much trouble. I think this list gives us a little bit of everything. The question is, is Immotekh worth 4 Immortals over a regular Overlord?

You only get 9CP, 3 from battleforged, 5 from battalion, 1 from outrider.

As Blaxican pointed out, you get +1 CP if Immotekh is your warlord.

 Sasori wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
So here is my current list. It's by no means perfect, but I think it's pretty beefy.

Tell me what ya'll think.

Spoiler:

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [125 PL, 1993pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Imotekh the Stormlord

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals: 6x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon


.

Gves me 10 command points, and I'll likely make Immotekh my warlord. His ability is not as good as before, but still pretty decent. Being able to MWBD two different immortal squads is also very powerful. If I need to move the DD arks I can still fire the low-power version without too much trouble. I think this list gives us a little bit of everything. The question is, is Immotekh worth 4 Immortals over a regular Overlord?

I think he is, but not for his Warlord trait. The storm ability is nothing to be sniffed at, he's giving you an extra CP and saving you CP that you'd spend on Phaeron's Will. I'd say that justifies the cost. His Beefier staff is icing on the cake. Honestly, I think we tend to burn through CP too quickly to really benefit from his Warlord trait now there is a cap on regen. But I can't really think of anything better.

The real question you have is, is he worth not being able to fit that 6th destroyer in? Personally, I'd drop a Stalker, add the last destroyer and then fill out the final Immortal unit.

Yeah, I've thought about it. I really wanted to try out 5 QS vehicles on the table first, to see how hard it is for my meta to handle. I would like the 6th destroyer, but I'd likely trade a single wraith for it before swapping out the stalker. Still, if they don't work out that well it's an easy switch up.

Blndmage wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
So here is my current list. It's by no means perfect, but I think it's pretty beefy.

Tell me what ya'll think.

Spoiler:

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [125 PL, 1993pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Imotekh the Stormlord

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals: 6x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Triarch Stalker: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths: 6x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon


.

Gves me 10 command points, and I'll likely make Immotekh my warlord. His ability is not as good as before, but still pretty decent. Being able to MWBD two different immortal squads is also very powerful. If I need to move the DD arks I can still fire the low-power version without too much trouble. I think this list gives us a little bit of everything. The question is, is Immotekh worth 4 Immortals over a regular Overlord?

You only get 9CP, 3 from battleforged, 5 from battalion, 1 from outrider.

As Blaxican pointed out, you get +1 CP if Immotekh is your warlord.

Spamming QS is a super viable strat, especially with our points costs. Obvious advice, but hammer the D2/D3 threats with your big guns first, don't be tempted to smash their big guns. Once you deal with them, all the lascannons in the world won't be able to stop you. God, I love QS.

 IHateNids wrote:
They're still overcosted and outgunned, but not to a crippling degree.

you can still take 2 DDAs to one Mono, so most people will go DDAs, but thanis to the new affordability of teleportation abominations, they may be coming off shelves

dont know if that helps or if I just confused you more....

I’ll take that as a, “don’t take it in tournaments but it’s not a waste of points in normal game.”
What about Doom Scythes? They worth it now?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What about Doom Scythes? They worth it now?

Depends on what you're up against, but generally, no. Taking one isn't going to make your list instantly terrible, it might be a legit choice if you are playing against Autocannons/Battle Cannons and if you are playing against people where the Amalgamated Targeting Data Stratagem might be useful 3 might also not be terrible, but against Dark Reapers, Lootas, Lascannon-equivalents and a bunch of other things it's still weak, albeit not aggressively so. Problem is Dark Reapers and Cat Lady not being nerfed means 1-3 dead Flyers a turn, same for 25 Lootas. So we've got some of the strongest list that counter Flyers and you're competing with other Flyer armies that are stronger than ours which people are coming prepared for.

Being unable to be charged is relatively useless in competitive settings, there are very few viable melee units that don't have Fly and they usually rely on teleporting so body-blocking isn't viable against anything except maybe Khorne Berzerkers, but that's probably just the best choice among a long list of not entirely viable melee units. The Genestealer slingshot might become popular with the price decrease on the Swarmlord, Flyers may be a pretty good way to deal with that, dakka Flyrants are relatively harmless against our Flyers so if that's a tactic that worries you Flyers might be a good counter.

It's very hard to talk about how it'll turn out if you use it in your local meta, it's a difficult unit to use which just invites you to mismanage it and waste its firepower and possibly even get it killed by not having anywhere to go, it could also be awesome if you manage to snipe a character with it turn 1 or if you manage to stop 2 melee units from moving T1. It also depends on your Dynasties, Sautekh is much better than Mephrit, which in turn is much better than the rest of the dynasties, so if you're not playing Sautekh I'd stay away.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

I’ll take that as a, “don’t take it in tournaments but it’s not a waste of points in normal game.”
What about Doom Scythes? They worth it now?

One is ok, but i wouldnt use more. Remember to use sautekh for them, otherwise its -1 to hit for moving and firing a heavy weapon. They cant hover, and have a minimum move. An experienced opponent can kill a flyer without firing a single shot, simply by placing his models in the flyers path. If the flyer cant move, because there are enemy models where it wants to fly, or is forced to move off the board, its slain.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
They're still overcosted and outgunned, but not to a crippling degree.

you can still take 2 DDAs to one Mono, so most people will go DDAs, but thanis to the new affordability of teleportation abominations, they may be coming off shelves

dont know if that helps or if I just confused you more....

I’ll take that as a, “don’t take it in tournaments but it’s not a waste of points in normal game.”
What about Doom Scythes? They worth it now?

Thats pretty much the vibe I was going for, yeah.

They aren’t gak in tournaments, they just won’t last long.

But, Doom Scythes are about as limited as people have already said. They’re in a bad place because of the Meta at the moment, although not terrible by wrote now they’re cheaper

Double battalion? Double battalion.

So any thoughts on the Seraptek heavy construct? Which weapon loadout do you guys prefer?

Compare the seraptek thing to an imperial knight, then think again if its worth 625 pts.

That wasn’t his/her question. If we persist in this toxic negativity, then no one is going to come here for serious tactical discussions.

I think the Strength 8 profile is probably better. The strength 16 profile is for anti-knights / vehicles, and is less of a “take all comers” approach which I think it needs to satisfy.

[Redacted: not worth it]

 p5freak wrote:
Compare the seraptek thing to an imperial knight, then think again if its worth 625 pts.

If it gets the jump on the Imperial Knight it's good, but a strategy relying on you going first is always a bad idea.

If we cut it to 450-500 I would certainly take a look at it.

 Red Corsair wrote:
So any thoughts on the Seraptek heavy construct? Which weapon loadout do you guys prefer?

Right now, the general opinion is that it costs a bit too much. The main comparison is made to a Castellian, which for it's points is better. A lot of people earlier in the thread figured that if Knights went up in points, then the Seraptek would be have gotten better, since they didn't it stayed the same. There is also the fact that the Pylon is much cheaper now, which has also drawn a lot of people.


That being said, It is still a beast, but it's fragile. It is also incredibly brutal in close combat, which is something that is easy to be overlooked. The most popular loadout (As evidenced by it being sold out on forgeworld right now) is the Synaptic Obliterators and projectors.

I actually like singularity generator, which I think is pretty much better against everything that's not a knight. Still the trick is to use it's ranged weapon and close combat ability to it's fullest.

Couple key differences though between it and a knight.

1. It cannot be movement blocked and goes 16" this is major, normal knights can get movement blocked very easily.

2. It has the profile of a Dominus but it also fights as well as a gallant.

3. You can cloaktek and spyder repair this thing which is actually stronger then you might think.

I don't think these should be disregarded at all. Also not that if taken as a supreme command you can make it Nohvok and the thing is a monster in assault (well more so).

Also if you take it in a auxillery slot make it nihilak and place it on an objective, you not have a far superior version of rotate ion shields. Only downside is first turn.

I think I would rather run it with the synaptic obliterator, at least my gut tells me that. Reason being both weapon loadouts average the same number of shots, but one has 4 weapons and half are specialized. I fell like the Transbeamer will fail against hight value targets.

I get that folks think it is overpriced compared to knights, but when the overall consensus is that knights are underspriced I actually think it's priced correctly. Regular armies will have a struggle against it. We can put it on full profile for 1cp remember.

I just think with all the pojnt reductions it is worth a second look. This thing can tank alot of heat for the army. It also is nasty in assault and is crazy fast. With the override strat it's getting there turn 1 even damaged and it's literally a bomb. This thing detonating in your enemies zone could literally win the game outright by crippling them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heck I totally spaced on blood rites, That makes the novok seraptek pretty much guaranteed to kill whatever it wants including hordes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Compare the seraptek thing to an imperial knight, then think again if its worth 625 pts.

If it gets the jump on the Imperial Knight it's good, but a strategy relying on you going first is always a bad idea.

If we cut it to 450-500 I would certainly take a look at it.

2 landraiders?

1.5 riptides?

I think that would make it criminally inexpensive. I like to play my games, not run on auto pilot. That would allow for people to field 2-3 comfortably. I don't want knights 2.0 in the meta.

I really like it but think it's a hundred points over costed. And that was before CA. Now it looks like an even worse deal.

If it was 500 points I would actually consider buying one and building my 2000p list around it.

I think you need to look at what you can do with it that you cannot with most titans. You can deceiver him 12" away lol. For 1CP he functions on top tier until death, when he dies he guts their army.
It isn't like this thing is that delicate.

CA made him MORE appealing, not less. You can toss him in instead of wraiths ans scarabs.

All I am saying is I think it's worth collectively brainstorming way to use it rather then disregarding it.

sieGermans wrote:That wasn’t his/her question. If we persist in this toxic negativity, then no one is going to come here for serious tactical discussions.

Discussing which units are worth their points, and which are not, is part of serious tactical discussions.

Red Corsair wrote:
1. It cannot be movement blocked and goes 16" this is major, normal knights can get movement blocked very easily.

It can be movement blocked by terrain because its huge and has a huge virtual base. You cant put it where is doesnt fit. Even if it would physically fit, the virtual base would not allow it. Its large movement value would be reduced to almost nothing by terrain. A simple munitorum armored container in its path would be an obstacle it cant move over. The rules say your model has to move up the piece of terrain, across it, and down again. If the container is 3" high and 3" wide it would have to spend 9" to move over it, 3 up, 3 across it, and 3 down. If the virtual base is 10" long it wouldnt be able to move over that container, because 19" move is needed for that.

Red Corsair wrote:
3. You can cloaktek and spyder repair this thing which is actually stronger then you might think.

Which adds even more points to it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If we cut it to 450-500 I would certainly take a look at it.

I would consider it at 525 pts. Or with better defense, like a 2+ sv or 4+ inv. Even D3 from living metal would satisfy me.

Red Corsair wrote:I think you need to look at what you can do with it that you cannot with most titans. You can deceiver him 12" away lol.

Thats another 225 points. Knights can deepstrike with a stratagem. Orks need a stratagem to deepstrike whatever they want, for 0 points. AM can deepstrike a baneblade, or any variant. Even multiple leman russes. With a stratagem, for 0 points.

 p5freak wrote:

sieGermans wrote:That wasn’t his/her question. If we persist in this toxic negativity, then no one is going to come here for serious tactical discussions.

Discussing which units are worth their points, and which are not, is part of serious tactical discussions.

Red Corsair wrote:
1. It cannot be movement blocked and goes 16" this is major, normal knights can get movement blocked very easily.

It can be movement blocked by terrain because its huge and has a huge virtual base. You cant put it where is doesnt fit. Even if it would physically fit, the virtual base would not allow it. Its large movement value would be reduced to almost nothing by terrain. A simple munitorum armored container in its path would be an obstacle it cant move over. The rules say your model has to move up the piece of terrain, across it, and down again. If the container is 3" high and 3" wide it would have to spend 9" to move over it, 3 up, 3 across it, and 3 down. If the virtual base is 10" long it wouldnt be able to move over that container, because 19" move is needed for that.

Red Corsair wrote:
3. You can cloaktek and spyder repair this thing which is actually stronger then you might think.

Which adds even more points to it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If we cut it to 450-500 I would certainly take a look at it.

I would consider it at 525 pts. Or with better defense, like a 2+ sv or 4+ inv. Even D3 from living metal would satisfy me.

Red Corsair wrote:I think you need to look at what you can do with it that you cannot with most titans. You can deceiver him 12" away lol.

Thats another 225 points. Knights can deepstrike with a stratagem. Orks need a stratagem to deepstrike whatever they want, for 0 points. AM can deepstrike a baneblade, or any variant. Even multiple leman russes. With a stratagem, for 0 points.

Using the abilities of other models to benefit the Seraptek does not equate to slapping their points onto the Seraptek to give it the benefit the one ability. This is a dumbass fallacy that people keep using on here, stop it.

 p5freak wrote:

Thats another 225 points. Knights can deepstrike with a stratagem. Orks need a stratagem to deepstrike whatever they want, for 0 points. AM can deepstrike a baneblade, or any variant. Even multiple leman russes. With a stratagem, for 0 points.

Knights have better use to deep strike(to board edges btw) questor knights(not even castellan to save from alpha strike) that come on turn 1. Can deceiver do this on T1? That's more valuable than the knight deep strike strategem.

Orks btw could not deep strike this model even if this was ork model.

And btw points, CP. Both are limited resources. Just because you deep strike something for 0 pts does NOT make it free.

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

sieGermans wrote:That wasn’t his/her question. If we persist in this toxic negativity, then no one is going to come here for serious tactical discussions.

Discussing which units are worth their points, and which are not, is part of serious tactical discussions.

Red Corsair wrote:
1. It cannot be movement blocked and goes 16" this is major, normal knights can get movement blocked very easily.

It can be movement blocked by terrain because its huge and has a huge virtual base. You cant put it where is doesnt fit. Even if it would physically fit, the virtual base would not allow it. Its large movement value would be reduced to almost nothing by terrain. A simple munitorum armored container in its path would be an obstacle it cant move over. The rules say your model has to move up the piece of terrain, across it, and down again. If the container is 3" high and 3" wide it would have to spend 9" to move over it, 3 up, 3 across it, and 3 down. If the virtual base is 10" long it wouldnt be able to move over that container, because 19" move is needed for that.

Red Corsair wrote:
3. You can cloaktek and spyder repair this thing which is actually stronger then you might think.

Which adds even more points to it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If we cut it to 450-500 I would certainly take a look at it.

I would consider it at 525 pts. Or with better defense, like a 2+ sv or 4+ inv. Even D3 from living metal would satisfy me.

Red Corsair wrote:I think you need to look at what you can do with it that you cannot with most titans. You can deceiver him 12" away lol.

Thats another 225 points. Knights can deepstrike with a stratagem. Orks need a stratagem to deepstrike whatever they want, for 0 points. AM can deepstrike a baneblade, or any variant. Even multiple leman russes. With a stratagem, for 0 points.

Using the abilities of other models to benefit the Seraptek does not equate to slapping their points onto the Seraptek to give it the benefit the one ability. This is a dumbass fallacy that people keep using on here, stop it.

Yea it's a rather tired debate tactic used on theses forums. A unit like deceiver is great for some ideas when folks want something to work, but then on other things he is suddenly a burdensome tax unit. It's total hogwash to claim they ONLY inflate the serapteks cost. Your taking HQ anyway and a cloak tek is not bad, the deceiver is not bad either, expensive on his own but thats ability of his is very strong, exponentially so when you use it on a titan. I'd argue your best value on the deceiver is using his power on the most expensive choice.

As for terrain, sure it will be a factor, but that hasn't stopped gallants from being taken in dozens of builds. It's a valid counterpoint, however again I'd counter with deceiver redeploy 12" from the enemy on a model that cannot be screened and has a base 16" move your grossly exaggerating the impact. Hide all you like, if I am back lining them into cramped spaces in their deployment for the first couple turns I have already won the mission 9/10 times. You have to remember the deceiver lets me redploy this M'fether after they are finished deploying which is good and bad. It's bad when they have infiltrators, but it is borderline broken when they don't. And I am seeing FAR less infiltrators after big FAQ 2. Space marines still use scouts, but then again space marines already blow .

I won a rulebook-style Eternal War mission against an Astra Militarum list with 3 Russes, a Shadowsword and a couple of Flyers and Basilisks piloted by a newish player using my double Battalion Unique list. My opponent went first and destroyed 2 squads of Immortals. I killed Pask, 30 Guardsmen and a FW Flyer, that's while rolling three 1s for number of shots on my DDAs. I ignored his Shadowsword because I had no viable targets for it and destroyed everything else while holding objectives. I used Vargard Obyron to constantly shift my Immortal squads forward.

I won a CA2018 Maelstrom mission against a casual SW/Astra Militarum list with Aggressors, Wulfen and Basilisks. My opponent got very unlucky with a ton of his rolls, while I got pretty lucky. I think I had a good chance regardless of luck. I forgot to use MWBD turn 3 because I had nothing to shoot and also didn't Advance, I could have Advanced 1+D6". I forgot about an active objective I had and moved away from an objective I needed to control turn 3 as well. I veiled Zahndrekh behind enemy lines and sent in a squad of Immortals to mess with my opponents rapier batteries, it worked pretty well.

My opponents were pretty wowed by the power of the list, but I've had that happen with Tesla Spam backed by DDAs previous to CA2018, the 340 pts is definitely not nothing. Vargard Obyron and Zahndrekh seem very nice in this list so far, I'm having a hard time imagining myself taking 30+ Immortals and not taking that combo. It's looking very good so far. I might have to get more Teslamortals so I can run the list without using Gauss Immortals for proxy, but I might just run Destroyers in tournaments instead because I recently bought enough of them.

Edit: I just won another game against a Taunar list going first, had I gone second I think I might have lost, the Triarch Stalker seems very important to answer Knights. I think running 3 Stalkers is really solid if you're just taking a Battalion and 3 DDAs.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Yea it's a rather tired debate tactic used on theses forums. A unit like deceiver is great for some ideas when folks want something to work, but then on other things he is suddenly a burdensome tax unit. It's total hogwash to claim they ONLY inflate the serapteks cost. Your taking HQ anyway and a cloak tek is not bad, the deceiver is not bad either, expensive on his own but thats ability of his is very strong, exponentially so when you use it on a titan. I'd argue your best value on the deceiver is using his power on the most expensive choice.

As for terrain, sure it will be a factor, but that hasn't stopped gallants from being taken in dozens of builds. It's a valid counterpoint, however again I'd counter with deceiver redeploy 12" from the enemy on a model that cannot be screened and has a base 16" move your grossly exaggerating the impact.

Ok, so you have the deceiver and the big monstrosity. Lets say you didnt get first turn. You decide not to redeploy it. You can still redeploy other units. In this case you are wasting the opportunity to get close with it. You want this thing to be close to your enemy, because its a melee monster, and has a huge explosion, if it blows up. But you cant charge after redeploying with the deceiver. You decide to redeploy it, and now its 12" from the enemy. But you cant charge on your first turn, all you can do is shoot. Still no melee first turn. On your opponents turn he can either move into half melta range, and position any anti TITANIC guns he might have. Or he can try to move far away from it, making your charge impossible, which might work, or not, depending on terrain and the speed of his units. The situation isnt much different when you do get first turn. Sure, you can try to kill some of your opponents AT guns, with little you have left, which isnt a monstrosity support unit.

Lets take a look at a possible supreme command detachment :



The cryptek is only there to support the monstrosity. The lord and overlord cant support the monstrosity, you would need more novokh units, otherwise they are useless. The deceiver has to redeploy it. He also has to redeploy the cryptek. So you need to roll a 2. With an additional spyder (another support only unit for the monstrosity, unless you take some scarabs) you need to roll a 3. What if you roll a 1, and the re-roll is also a 1, or 2 ?
You cant take the spider in a supreme command detachment, you need another novokh detachment. Novokh is CC oriented, which isnt good for your ranged combat abilities. Another dynasty, like nihilakh, would be better for shooting. You need CP as well, so you choose a battalion. You need two more HQs. You now have 5 (!) HQ units, which is a pretty hefty tax. You could pick a dlord, who can do something useful in melee, and isnt a support character, but he is more expensive.

Your list could look something like this. Overall, i think the cost to fully support the monstrosity is enormous :

I mean yes, like any good Lord of War you need to build you list around it. (Bar Knights, because Imperial Units must be The Bestest Ever(TM))

I think a Sautekh Detachment where everything gets up in your opponent's face, even done cheap with Warrior bricks would work wonders with this guy

He takes one flank by himself, and then the rest of the "advance" team takes the other, while the guns sit back. You can even take advantage of some of our small-footprint DS attacks like Flayers or Tomb Stalker/Sentinel if you wanna ruthlessly exploit a hole left by your first-turn firepower

in 2000 points it's an extrmely aggressive list, and through overwhelming numbers, you function as a reanimating Horde Mode

sounds like something to look into at any rate

 p5freak wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Yea it's a rather tired debate tactic used on theses forums. A unit like deceiver is great for some ideas when folks want something to work, but then on other things he is suddenly a burdensome tax unit. It's total hogwash to claim they ONLY inflate the serapteks cost. Your taking HQ anyway and a cloak tek is not bad, the deceiver is not bad either, expensive on his own but thats ability of his is very strong, exponentially so when you use it on a titan. I'd argue your best value on the deceiver is using his power on the most expensive choice.

As for terrain, sure it will be a factor, but that hasn't stopped gallants from being taken in dozens of builds. It's a valid counterpoint, however again I'd counter with deceiver redeploy 12" from the enemy on a model that cannot be screened and has a base 16" move your grossly exaggerating the impact.

Ok, so you have the deceiver and the big monstrosity. Lets say you didnt get first turn. You decide not to redeploy it. You can still redeploy other units. In this case you are wasting the opportunity to get close with it. You want this thing to be close to your enemy, because its a melee monster, and has a huge explosion, if it blows up. But you cant charge after redeploying with the deceiver. You decide to redeploy it, and now its 12" from the enemy. But you cant charge on your first turn, all you can do is shoot. Still no melee first turn. On your opponents turn he can either move into half melta range, and position any anti TITANIC guns he might have. Or he can try to move far away from it, making your charge impossible, which might work, or not, depending on terrain and the speed of his units. The situation isnt much different when you do get first turn. Sure, you can try to kill some of your opponents AT guns, with little you have left, which isnt a monstrosity support unit.

Lets take a look at a possible supreme command detachment :

Spoiler:

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [60 PL, 1090pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Lord [5 PL, 68pts]: Hyperphase Sword

Overlord [6 PL, 87pts]: Hyperphase Sword

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver [12 PL, 225pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor, Power of the C'tan: Cosmic Fire

+ Lord of War +

Seraptek Heavy Construct [32 PL, 625pts]: Two Synaptic Obliterators and Two Transdimensional Projectors

++ Total: [60 PL, 1090pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

The cryptek is only there to support the monstrosity. The lord and overlord cant support the monstrosity, you would need more novokh units, otherwise they are useless. The deceiver has to redeploy it. He also has to redeploy the cryptek. So you need to roll a 2. With an additional spyder (another support only unit for the monstrosity, unless you take some scarabs) you need to roll a 3. What if you roll a 1, and the re-roll is also a 1, or 2 ?
You cant take the spider in a supreme command detachment, you need another novokh detachment. Novokh is CC oriented, which isnt good for your ranged combat abilities. Another dynasty, like nihilakh, would be better for shooting. You need CP as well, so you choose a battalion. You need two more HQs. You now have 5 (!) HQ units, which is a pretty hefty tax. You could pick a dlord, who can do something useful in melee, and isnt a support character, but he is more expensive.

Your list could look something like this. Overall, i think the cost to fully support the monstrosity is enormous :

Spoiler:

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [60 PL, 1104pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Lord [5 PL, 75pts]: Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 94pts]: Staff of Light

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver [12 PL, 225pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor, Power of the C'tan: Cosmic Fire

+ Lord of War +

Seraptek Heavy Construct [32 PL, 625pts]: Two Synaptic Obliterators and Two Transdimensional Projectors

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [54 PL, 891pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 129pts]: Artefact: The Nanoscarab Casket, Phylactery, Warlord, Warscythe

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 120pts]: Gauss Blaster, 8x Immortal

Immortals [8 PL, 120pts]: Gauss Blaster, 8x Immortal

Immortals [8 PL, 120pts]: Gauss Blaster, 8x Immortal

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 125pts]: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 117pts]: 9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

+ Heavy Support +

Canoptek Spyders [4 PL, 75pts]
. Canoptek Spyder: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism

++ Total: [114 PL, 1995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Battalion Sahtek
cloaktek
immotek
10 immortals
10 immortals
5 immortals
DDA
DDA
stalker
Fab Spyder
Deceiver
SH sahtek
Seraptek heavy construct
1990

OR
Battalion Novokh
destroyer lord
cloaktek
5 immortals
5 immortals
5 immortals
DDA
DDA
6 wraiths
spyder F-claw prism
Deceiver
SH AUX Novokh
Seraptek

1972

That's me just spitting out two lists off the top of my head. The supreme command I'll admit is much harder, so I'd wager it's more beneficial to forgo the rerolls on the big boy, you can still swing twice with him using the Novokh strat which should be enough. The first list is more shooting oriented.