Hi,
With Blood Angels being out for a couple of months now, my question is:
What are the most effective units we have, what has been working for you and how would you go about building a competitive list?
Thanks

Pretty much everything outside of the troops section, lol.

Dante is an auto include in almost every list. You will want to play him in any tournament that allows lords of war. He is just that good. Other than that, here's a list of the best choices in each slot.

HQ
Sanguinary Priests
Astorath
Mephiston
(Note: captains and libbys can be competitive, but not at the same level as the choices listed above. So can Corbulo)

Elites
Death Company (best in the slot)
Sanguinary Guard (second best in the slot)
Furioso Dreads with Frag Cannons
Melta command squads

Troops
Only take the minimum requirement. 2 tac squads in pods or 2x5 scouts.

Fast attack
Assault squads
Bike squads

Heavy support
Fast tri las predators
Stormraven

You cant really build a bad list if you stick to these units.

Thanks for the feedback.
How would you go about building a competitive list with those units? It may sound lazy of me lol but I havnt played since a few start up games back in fifth, so it will be interesting to hear from those with game experience

Attack bikes are still good, imo. ST 8 AP 1 shots that move 12" are pretty nice.

Mephiston is much better with other libbies in the force. Or AM psykers.

Thanks for the feedback martel.
So you wouldnt recommend taking mephy?
Also, how woul you guys go about making a competitive core?

No, I would take Mephy, but I'd take a level 2 libby with him. You'll need unbound or double force org to get priests in that list, or go without like I have been. BA are casting mostly buffs in my list, so I don't need a ton of dice.

Mephy is pretty nice in that he has the rare and coveted ST 10 attacks in melee combat, even though he's not as fearsome as he once was. But now he gets LoS. Pretty decent trade and overall better because of the points drop.

The old fashioned blood rodeo seems to be making a comeback as well, spamming grav bikes with fnp all day.

Personally im enjoying spamming death company. I feel its a perfectly viable option.

Good ideas.
I see pod spam alot recently, what are your opinions on the competitiveness of that?

Its very, VERY strong. Frag dreads with heavy flamers in pod rock in at 165 points, which is fantastically cheap. Our sternguard are 10 points cheaper than the vanilla equivalents as well. But the real kicker is in fast attack.

A 5 man assault marine squad with 2 melta guns and a combi melta is 115 points, which is criminally inexpensive.

how many pods would you recommend?

 th3maninblak wrote:
Its very, VERY strong. Frag dreads with heavy flamers in pod rock in at 165 points, which is fantastically cheap. Our sternguard are 10 points cheaper than the vanilla equivalents as well. But the real kicker is in fast attack.

A 5 man assault marine squad with 2 melta guns and a combi melta is 115 points, which is criminally inexpensive.

Pretty sure you can gunsling 2 inferno pistols for 4 melta shots per assault squad as well, if you're feeling froggy.

Just looking at Death Company, Drop podded melta assault squads, and tank hunting Stormravens, there's a lot to like about the BA codex.

I think that the multi-melta is actually the wrong choice for the Stormraven now. I'm going to start running mine with typhoon/assault cannon. It's more expensive, but melta is considerably less reliable than in 6th and with no multi-melta, I won't be tempted to get as close as quickly. I feel that maximizing hang time over the battle is more important and krak missiles are actually defacto better in 7th and hp stripping has become the go-to method against vehicles.

I also find infernus pistols stupidly easy to bubblewrap against.

Thanks for the comment.
Talk about dakka haha.
Im working on a more competitive variant of my current list which I will post in a minute.


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Thats useful feedback martel, thanks
I havnt played since a few start up games in fifth, so tips like that are really useful for me atm



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My newest list:
2006pts

LoW
Commander Dante
220

HQ
Sanguinary Priest
Angels wings, valours edge, bolt pistol
106

Troops
2x Tactical Squad
5man
Plasma gun, sergeant with combi-plasma
190

In razorbacks
Las/plas
170

Elites

Sanguinary Guard
5man
Chapter Banner, infernus pistol, power fist
210

Death Company
10 man
Jump packs, 2power weapons and power fist
285

Furioso Dreadnought
Frag cannon, magna grapple, heavy flamer
130
(In a drop pod-35)

Fast Attack

2x Assault Squad
5 man
2 meltaguns
210

(In drop pods- free)

Heavy Support

Stormraven Gunship
Multi Melta, Assault cannon
200

2x Predator
Overcharged engines, lascannon sponsons
250

I am also wanting to add a squad of th/ss assault termies and mephy to go in the stormraven.

What do you guys think of this list, is it competitive?
Thanks

Hmm... the list looks good, but ive never been fond of auto+las predators. Tri las all the way, if youre running them.

Im finding that priests dont need both angels wings and VE. One or the other will do. You also have to figure out what point value your FLGS plays at most commonly. I know the majority of places run at 1850.

Also your assault squads DEFINITELY need a combi melta. Im with martel here on the inferno pistols (though i still love the multi melta on stormravens). 3 inch melta range is just too close.

Autolas still has a place. It can move 12" and three full BS shots. It is strictly better against units like TH/SS terminators and wraiths.

Thanks for the feedback.
I will try and re-arrange points to get combi-s.
Can you guys see a way of adding the assault termies and mephy to go in the raven? and is this competitive enough?
Thanks

I like combi-weapons on sarges to add to alpha strikes, but the combi-Sternguard are super expensive now. I'm loving naked Sternguard in a Rhino with Mephy right now. The squad is ineffective vs vehicles, but I have lascannons and meltas for those.

I've gone with the Autolas Predator too, partly for variation and partly for the points cost. I don't plan on moving the Pred excessively throughout game play as I'm 50% deep strike and infiltrate.

Thanks for the feedback. Do you guys think this list is competitive? I will probably take out the angels wimgs on the priest amd go woth just the normal jump pack and find points to add in combi meltas.

Competitive enough.

What do you think could be improved

It needs a few tweaks, but in general i think its got potential to take down a tournament or two.

As for the th/ss termies with mephy, i just dont like putting that many points inside a storm raven. Yes, you get the rerolls on reserves, but 1 game in 6 (more often if your opponent messes with your reserves) youll have 400 points of stuff that will do nothing until turn 4

thanks for the feedback man, it feels good to get close to getting a decent list.
Cam I ask what tweaks you would recommend, besides from the combi-meltas?

I thing one thing that neds tweaking is that you're over 2k and being just a few points over won't fly at a tournament unless the rule pack specifically gives you the leeway.

I think saving can be found in dropping a few bodies in the DC. A ten man squad is nice but you probably won't need that many.
I tend to run 7 with two power fists, which is still a decent amount of S5 ap-, and a nice little hammer from the two fists. Note that takng casualties will 'hurt' more in terms of of your damage output, so use your razorbacks to screen them.

You should also get a few games in and see how you fare in your local meta and tweak accordingly.

D

Thank for the useful comment.
I might consider droppimg a few dc as it gives me easier modelling opportunity to make a priest and a few asm.


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What do you guys think is the optimal number of pods too? should I add another squad of melta asm?



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Tweaks:
Remove 2DC- Saves 46pts
Adding 2 combi-meltas to assault squad sergeants (+20)
This leaves me with 20 points spare to play with (2006-46+20)

What do you think? Amd what should I use the extra points for?

At some point you just need to go whichever way feels best to YOU. I could tell you what I'd do, but my thoughts are most likely contrary to the advice you've already received / followed, so...we all have are thoughts and preferences.

I'd suggest reading OTHER Blood Angel centric threads with the idea of just absorbing overall themes to what you may be reading. Take those themes and apply them generally to your list building, but if you find yourself with questions or leftover pts, play with what you think is cool or makes sense to you.

On top of all of it...just play games. The codex is too new for people to have a handle on what the "best list" is, if there is such an animal.

I've got to be honest, there is no single super standout thing in this codex. My single over arching theme in my lists is that I'm a point Scrooge. I don't like expensive models unless they do something really, really good, because stuff dies in this game REALLY fast.

That is why I currently prefer naked Sternguard over combi-weapon Sternguard. I'd rather take those 100 pts and buy part of another unit that actually has the special weapons instead of one-shot versions. That's just an example.

Here is mine:
Captain 160
Terminator Armour
Thunder hammer

Terminators 275
2 chainfists
Cyclone missile launcher
heavy flamer
Assault cannon

Death Company 285
+2 marines
power sword
power fist
thunder hammer
jump packs
infernus pistol
plasma pistol
hand flamer

Furioso dreadnaught 190
Furioso librarian upgrade
extra armour

Land speeder typhoon 100
Typhoon missile launchers
multi melta

Sanguinary Guard 275
Plasma pistol
Chapter banner
Death Masks
power fist
I play 5th.
TOTAL 1285
The terminators are not legal, but legalness does not matter in my games.

Im not really sure how to shave those points, Instinct. My knee jerk reaction is to drop the storm raven and fit in all the upgrades you need, but idk.

And Kaptin, i love casual gaming as much as the next guy, but this is a thread to figure out the competitive aspects of the 7th edition BA codex =p

This thread was supposed to be for everyone, but it seems that me askimg for advice seems to have dominated it haha. And I understand what is being said, although the basis of this list are my person preferences anyway.

Don't forget the forge world units from Imperial Armour 2.

The sicaran tank is so good it's basically an auto-include for every list I make.
You can give it the legacy of mars to chew through armor, or the battle of sarosh legacy to almost auto-kill one enemy air unit.

Rapier batteries and fire raptors are really good, too.

But, getting back to the regular codex, I actually like the Librarian Dreadnought. Most people on this board seem to have a really low opinion of the lib dread, but it's been a staple of my list for years, and it's rarely done me wrong. There's something just unimpeachably good about S10 AP2 force attacks that hit at I5.

Thanks for the feedback.
Personally, I like the idea of it instead of my preds, but my likely place to go would be a gw store and I dont know if they would allow that.
My intention for this thread was to include everyone, so I apologise for dominating it with tips for my list.
What are you finding useful in-game?

I can't think of a reason why gw wouldn't allow forgeworld

I know its the same company (right?)
I think my problem is if the people playing would be ok with it cos there was no forgeworld arround besides from a titan in the cabinet the last time I was there.

As long as you have a printout of the rules, and they're stamped 40k legal and not experimental, I'd be surprised if anyone cared.

I've yet to meet a nerd so pedantic he'd refuse to play against forgeworld models, and I've met some pretty pedantic nerds in this hobby

Haha thanks man
Im a noob really, on played a few start up games back in fifth
As my list has covered most of this tbread like I said before, what are you finding successful this edition?

For those of you who have gotten games under your belt, what are you finding works well?

DC with a libby, a Sang Priest, and Seth chews up pretty much everything. A turn of shooting from 2 tri-las preds and a las-sicaran combined with the rending attacks from Seth and the PF/TH attacks from the DC chewed up an Adamantium Lance.

Granted, it was a maelstrom game, and he split the lance up to prevent me from nuking all his obsec troops with heavy flamers and 5-man DC/Sang guard squads, but I still took out 3 knights in 6 turns.

You've got to be really careful using any kind of infantry characters to charge knights, tbh. It's super risky. Keep in mind any knight has a 33% per turn combat phase of just stomping a blast template out of existence, and someone like Gabe Seth, even though he strikes first, assuming he gets the charge (which would basically mean he jumped out of a storm raven or a land raider), will only do two hull points worth of damage on average, then it's time for all those stomp attacks to happen at the same time your power fists hit.

I've gotten dante stomped out, meph stomped out, corbulo stomped out, a generic sanguinary priest stomped out, and I've stomped out a wraithlord and a farseer.

It suuuuucks when it happens man.

I 100% sign off on using dual tri-las predators and a legacy of mars sicaran to chew through knights, and also, shoot, you're a blood angel, you should have no problem putting melta shots right into their back armor via deep strike.

Destroy those knights from a distance, soldier!

Interesting!
Are you guys having sucess with drop pods? and how many do you run?

I *sometimes* run one with a fragioso, and it works well for me, especially since it drops on the first turn, but 3+ pods full of melta marines seem to be autoinclude for most of the people who post lists on this board.

I don't think the melta marines are an auto-include in any way. They are a tool, but they are a one-shot tool. Marines want to shoot more than once.

Pod's are best done in 1's, 3's or 5's. I use 3 and bring in my fragioso and my tri-melta ASM squad in the first turn and a 10 man tactical squad with tri-flamer weapon's on the 2nd. I played it against the new necrons yesterday and the first 2 did well but the tactical squad? not so much.

cool, I was thinking the same thing because of the number of pods being dropped on turn 1 is rounded up.

The thing about the tri melta ASM squads is they dont HAVE to shoot more than once, and their points cost is so low that even if they just come in and strip a hull point off a wave serpent and force it to jink before dying, you dont really care.

Good point. With two melta squads and a dread, would you drop the two squads at the same time or a dread and a melta squad?

Martel732 wrote:
I don't think the melta marines are an auto-include in any way. They are a tool, but they are a one-shot tool. Marines want to shoot more than once.

I'm with you Martel, I was just going off of what other people are posting on the board.
I can't bring myself to field a squad that is literally only good for one alpha strike with meltas, because I know I'll whiff it every time and then I'll be stuck with 5 footslogging marines for 135pts standing right next to my opponent's entire army with bullseyes on their bright yellow helmets.

At least if I'm deep striking in a fragioso, or some guys with jump packs they can start murdering stuff in hth after they whiff with their shots.

What are you finding effective as fast and heavy choices this edition? I know everyone likes sicarans and knights.

For heavy: Storm Ravens, tri-las predators or auto-las predators, depending on who you talk to, and I like rapier batteries personally

for fast: assault squads (doye), grav gun wielding bikers, optionally with a MM attack bike and / or sanguinary priest, MM landspeeders if you're deep striking, TML HB landspeeders if you're not

Cool, looks good.
What are your current lists looking like atm?

 th3maninblak wrote:
The thing about the tri melta ASM squads is they dont HAVE to shoot more than once, and their points cost is so low that even if they just come in and strip a hull point off a wave serpent and force it to jink before dying, you dont really care.

They're not THAT cheap. Nothing in the BA codex is. Plus, AP 1 got nerfed in 7th ed. I'm not that crazy about pitching 135 pts down the toilet for three melta shots. I really like the MM attack bikes better for only a few points more. They are harder to get off the table, have the option to jink, and can shoot S8 AP 1 shots out to 24", which is double duty for things like MCs. You don't always need the melta rule.

On top of this, I'm really liking the deathwind laucher in 7th, which makes we want to drop bubble wrap infantry more than hard targets. Fragnought Furioso + deathwind launcher equals a lot of dead Xenos.

@martel why so expensive? Mine are 20 pts less. I've got 2x melta and 1 combi on sarge. What you giving them? Like you I probably wouldn't have bothered if they were that much. But bare bone's for so little means it's a damn good unit to take. Not so much for 135.

I havent even been running that unit in a pod and i still love it. 5 dudes with 3 meltas that come in on a rerollable 3+ reserve and only scatter d6 is super awesome for 115 points, and if they live then its just gravy. Jump around the table, slag tanks and beat up weak or injured units.

Liking the ideas!
Do you guys see any auto includes in this codex?
For me, I think it woul be obviously tacticals (did consider sniper scouts, however), death company, a sanguinary priest and a stormraven or two.

 th3maninblak wrote:
I havent even been running that unit in a pod and i still love it. 5 dudes with 3 meltas that come in on a rerollable 3+ reserve and only scatter d6 is super awesome for 115 points, and if they live then its just gravy. Jump around the table, slag tanks and beat up weak or injured units.

If your opponent is using bubblewrap, what good does this unit do?The range on melta sucks.

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
I havent even been running that unit in a pod and i still love it. 5 dudes with 3 meltas that come in on a rerollable 3+ reserve and only scatter d6 is super awesome for 115 points, and if they live then its just gravy. Jump around the table, slag tanks and beat up weak or injured units.

If your opponent is using bubblewrap, what good does this unit do?The range on melta sucks.

Not everyone runs large blobs of cheap disposable units, and the list of armies that can do so is very short. I have never run into an instance where i have been wrapped out of a melta strike on turn 2.

 Voidwraith wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Its very, VERY strong. Frag dreads with heavy flamers in pod rock in at 165 points, which is fantastically cheap. Our sternguard are 10 points cheaper than the vanilla equivalents as well. But the real kicker is in fast attack.

A 5 man assault marine squad with 2 melta guns and a combi melta is 115 points, which is criminally inexpensive.

Pretty sure you can gunsling 2 inferno pistols for 4 melta shots per assault squad as well, if you're feeling froggy.

Just looking at Death Company, Drop podded melta assault squads, and tank hunting Stormravens, there's a lot to like about the BA codex.

How are you managing the tank hunting on a storm raven?

 th3maninblak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
I havent even been running that unit in a pod and i still love it. 5 dudes with 3 meltas that come in on a rerollable 3+ reserve and only scatter d6 is super awesome for 115 points, and if they live then its just gravy. Jump around the table, slag tanks and beat up weak or injured units.

If your opponent is using bubblewrap, what good does this unit do?The range on melta sucks.

Not everyone runs large blobs of cheap disposable units, and the list of armies that can do so is very short. I have never run into an instance where i have been wrapped out of a melta strike on turn 2.

Really? Wow. Do your opponents just not care? I gum up melta strikes pretty frequently by making them strike something I don't care about. You don't need large units, as the range on melta is very poor.

Or they dont really have anything to wrap with. Or they've moved to get a better angle on shooting. Or they leave an opening.

Auto includes in the book?

Dante
Priests
Death co
Sanguinary guard
Scouts (min sized squads)
Assault squads
Bikes (in certain lists)
Tri las preds
Stormravens.

My current list does not have Dante, Priests, Sanguinary guard, scouts, assault squads, or Stormravens. Interesting.

I think the my earlier quote of 135 was for the gunslinger sarge. The 115 pt squad is superior, but I"m still not sure if I can justify it.

This is my current list.

Dante

Priest with valour's edge, angel's wings, pistol

5x sanguinary guard with fist, banner, inferno pistol

10x death co with jump packs and 2x fists

10x death co with jump packs and 2x fists

Frag Dread in a pod

5x scouts with ccw and combi melta

5x scouts with ccw and combi melta

Stormraven with melta, assault cannon and hurricanes

Stormraven with melta, lascannon and hurricanes

Martel732 wrote:
My current list does not have Dante, Priests, Sanguinary guard, scouts, assault squads, or Stormravens. Interesting.

I think the my earlier quote of 135 was for the gunslinger sarge. The 115 pt squad is superior, but I"m still not sure if I can justify it.

I'd be really curious to see that list, Martel

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Its very, VERY strong. Frag dreads with heavy flamers in pod rock in at 165 points, which is fantastically cheap. Our sternguard are 10 points cheaper than the vanilla equivalents as well. But the real kicker is in fast attack.

A 5 man assault marine squad with 2 melta guns and a combi melta is 115 points, which is criminally inexpensive.

Pretty sure you can gunsling 2 inferno pistols for 4 melta shots per assault squad as well, if you're feeling froggy.

Just looking at Death Company, Drop podded melta assault squads, and tank hunting Stormravens, there's a lot to like about the BA codex.

How are you managing the tank hunting on a storm raven?

Tank Hunting Stormraven being one armed with TL Lascannon and TL Multi-melta.

It's my bad for ignoring the fact that there is a USR called Tank Hunters. I'll try to toss that Stormraven loadout label out the window...

Well, you could give it legacy of mars so it'd actually have tank hunter...
Wouldn't be too terrible on an assault cannon Raven

 Walnuts wrote:
Well, you could give it legacy of mars so it'd actually have tank hunter...
Wouldn't be too terrible on an assault cannon Raven

This... is actually an insanely good idea.

Hah, yeah, it's a little redic from a fluff perspective since there's no way a storm raven could have been around during any of the legacy battles, BUT, if I didn't have a mars legacy sicaran on autoinclude in all my lists I would totally run a mars storm raven with a typhoon missile launcher and assault cannon.

So what do you guys like to put in a stormraven?
Ive been considering assault termies and mephy personally, but ive heard all sorts, from ccw scouts to a full kitted out squad and dread.

Here Are Some Easy Steps:

1. Dante is awesome, take him
2. Dante performs best when he is attached to sanguinary guards
3. Attach a priest to Dante and the sang guard, he makes Dante even more survivable and gives the guard something to fall back on. WS7 Dante and WS5 Guard are also awesome. Give the priest a bolt pistol, the angel's wing and valour's edge.
3. Fast Tri-Las Preads are your friend, as are Stormravens. A Baal Pread will do if you want dakka and a Sicaran is even better for dakka or anti-vehicle firepower
4. Melta Assault squads are an excellent fast attack choice
5. Furioso dreadnoughts are excellent, they are best in drop pods, but stormravens are fine
6. Fill up your second HQ slot with a librarian, mephiston is an excellent combination with Dante, but a ML2 Termie Librarian with a Storm Shield will do and is more survivable
7. The Baal Strike Force is better than the CAD, everyone gets +1 initiative and your transports still get obsec
8. Take a minimum of 2 tac squads and run them either 5 man in las/plas razorbacks (if you can afford the points) with plasma, or 10 man in drop pods with a combi-flamer/flamer/heavy flamer deal
9. Death Company are great, either take 2 8-man units of them with jump packs and at least 1 thunder hammer or forget them and take some TH/SS Termies to back up the Libby. If you want to buff DC, replace the libby with Astorath.

With the Dante/Guard/Priest combo these are the stats for Dante on the charge with his axe:
WS7, BS5, S7, T4, I8, W4, At6, Ld10, Sv: 2+ 4++

For even more cheese, give your libby a jump pack and stick him with Dante. It's risky, because that's a very expensive unit. However, if you roll on sanguinary discipline, you can give Dante +D3A & +D3I (I don't recommend this for a competitive list)

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
I havent even been running that unit in a pod and i still love it. 5 dudes with 3 meltas that come in on a rerollable 3+ reserve and only scatter d6 is super awesome for 115 points, and if they live then its just gravy. Jump around the table, slag tanks and beat up weak or injured units.

If your opponent is using bubblewrap, what good does this unit do?The range on melta sucks.

I hear a lot about this bubble wrapping. Does this happen in your meta a lot? If so then scare the daylights out of them with triple Vindicators. If they are bubble wrapping then you'll get their tanks and bubble wrap with the same shot. If they then use the fact that you have Vindicators to not bubble wrap round their vehicles instead then you have a clear pathway to strike their vehicles with your melta squads and you can use the Vindicator on something else instead.


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InsTincT_OP wrote:
So what do you guys like to put in a stormraven?
Ive been considering assault termies and mephy personally, but ive heard all sorts, from ccw scouts to a full kitted out squad and dread.

I wonder how well Assault Termies with Lightning Claws do now. With S5 and I5 on the charge with shred on those bad boys I'm wondering how effective they are.

Natpri771, thats practically my list haha.
So guys, how much sucess have you had in your games so far?

I don't own triple vindicators, and even if I did, I don't think it's a very good solution, as there is no way to make it ignore cover. That is a lot of effort just to make drop melta suicide guys work. The bubblewrap also doesn't work against lascannons and MM. The nice thing about bubblewrap is that it's a set up-time decision.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't own triple vindicators, and even if I did, I don't think it's a very good solution, as there is no way to make it ignore cover. That is a lot of effort just to make drop melta suicide guys work. The bubblewrap also doesn't work against lascannons and MM. The nice thing about bubblewrap is that it's a set up-time decision.

Are they using the bubblewrap to claim a cover save against any incoming shots? From what I remember vehicles need to be at least 25% covered from LoS in order to gain a cover save, so he better have a lot of troops in front of it for that.

Tell me what the typical bubblewrap that you face against is. I would like to know. Most armies usually only get 10 men squads, perhaps 20 men squads in order to wrap a tank with. And if they using multiple squads of theirs to bubblewrap a single tank with then they are in trouble if they come up against any massive blasts or apocalyptic blasts from any superheavies.

I run a list similar to what I suggested and it's actually doing pretty well. I killed Abaddon in a challenge (with some help from a Libby)
I find Dante is pretty much in auto include in <1500pts lists. So what I like to do for competitive lists in start with a Baal Strike Force detachment and Dante, then build up from there. I think the main mistakes people make when building BA lists are trying to make heavy mech lists and making their list too anti-vehicle focused. Blood Angels are not a heavy mech army, they are a fast moving assault force. If you want to do heavy mech lists with a marine army, then play Iron Hands.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RKyj-fJXd9A
This is an example of what I'm talking about (I know it's with the old codex, but it still applied then). It would make a hell of a lot of a difference for him to get assault canons on his stormravens and to kit out his troops better. I could think of many better ways to spend the massive point drain that is the land raider. His list is too anti-vehicle focused and he tries to make a heavy mech list. If you look at some of his batreps, there is not a lot of victories.

What about the typhon super heavy, martel?

If that thing drops a 7" S10 AP1 blast that ignores cover, has AV14 all around, 6HP for 350pts, seems like it would be a pretty good choice to take care of vehicles and mobs of infantry at the same time, and if you're not using Dante, the fact that it's a lord of war isn't much of a liability.

InsTincT_OP wrote:
So what do you guys like to put in a stormraven?
Ive been considering assault termies and mephy personally, but ive heard all sorts, from ccw scouts to a full kitted out squad and dread.

I think if taking an assault vehicle Corbulo is a solid choice to ride in it as he lacks access to jp/bike.

Send him with either TH/SS termies and maybe a power armour librarian for quickening buffs, or even Vanguard Vets if you want a bigger squad.

When using a Stormraven a s a transport you're handicapping yourself jn some ways as you've turned the focus from gunboat to transport, which I would then keep cheap (no sponsons), consider laz/MM loadout, and don't be afirad to jink the turn you arrive as it doesn't affect disembarking and you'll want to deliver your goods. Also consider flat outing once you've dropped off so you can hide before you start zooming again.

D

 DarthOvious wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't own triple vindicators, and even if I did, I don't think it's a very good solution, as there is no way to make it ignore cover. That is a lot of effort just to make drop melta suicide guys work. The bubblewrap also doesn't work against lascannons and MM. The nice thing about bubblewrap is that it's a set up-time decision.

Are they using the bubblewrap to claim a cover save against any incoming shots? From what I remember vehicles need to be at least 25% covered from LoS in order to gain a cover save, so he better have a lot of troops in front of it for that.

Tell me what the typical bubblewrap that you face against is. I would like to know. Most armies usually only get 10 men squads, perhaps 20 men squads in order to wrap a tank with. And if they using multiple squads of theirs to bubblewrap a single tank with then they are in trouble if they come up against any massive blasts or apocalyptic blasts from any superheavies.

They are just using it to control where drop pods land. Once the pods are down, they stop wrapping.

There is no "typical" bubblewrap. It depends on the board and your list and what you want to expose to drop podded squads and what you don't. For example, I myself use rhino and razor hulls to make is so melta can't drop my predator.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Walnuts wrote:
What about the typhon super heavy, martel?

If that thing drops a 7" S10 AP1 blast that ignores cover, has AV14 all around, 6HP for 350pts, seems like it would be a pretty good choice to take care of vehicles and mobs of infantry at the same time, and if you're not using Dante, the fact that it's a lord of war isn't much of a liability.

Bubblewrap is not the only reason I'm skeptical of BA as a drop list. Enemy assault elements are another major concern.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Walnuts wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
My current list does not have Dante, Priests, Sanguinary guard, scouts, assault squads, or Stormravens. Interesting.

I think the my earlier quote of 135 was for the gunslinger sarge. The 115 pt squad is superior, but I"m still not sure if I can justify it.

I'd be really curious to see that list, Martel

1850 pts

Mephiston
Level 2 libby w/jump pack

Tac squad plasma combiplasma, las.plas razor
Tac squad plasma combiplasma, las.plas razor

10 x DC, jump packs, 2X powerfist, level 2 libby joins and manifests sangunius

9 X sternguard, rhino, Mephiston joins this squad

3 X MM attack bikes

5 X bikers, combi-grav, 2 X grav

Fast tri-las pred

Fragnought, meltagun, drop pod, deathwind launcher

InsTincT_OP wrote:
So what do you guys like to put in a stormraven?
Ive been considering assault termies and mephy personally, but ive heard all sorts, from ccw scouts to a full kitted out squad and dread.

I ran a storm raven with a sanguine wing the last game I played, so it had to be loaded with ten sternguard with free combi-meltas. I also stuck Mephiston and an Order Malleus Inquisitor with a demon and empyrian brain mines, which is a model that I personally think is a bargain for 50pts. If meph casts force, the inquisitor benefits from it as well, and empyrian brain mines have a 33% chance per turn of disabling a Knight, and a 66% chance of disabling Necrons (which is what I was fighting).

I also had the storm raven carrying Cassor the Damned, which is a model that's sort of looked down upon as being way worse than a furioso due to being more expensive but only armor 12, and I get it, but he's also a character, so can issue challenges and is thus way less vulnerable to power fists, and he's a troop choice. Also against necrons / eldar / dark eldar, armor 13 vs armor 12 is only a slight buff.

I ran meph with divination, hoping he'd get perfect timing, but knowing he'd at least end up with that power that lets his squad re-roll missed to hits, which you can see how potent that'd be on the sternguard.

It might sound risky loading up a storm raven with that much nonsense, but in my meta there is a 0% chance of me fighting anything with interceptor, so I can sort of act with impunity. Also most interceptor weapons are super weak, so I'd like to see one shoot down a jinking storm raven.

Anyway, Cassor killed a squad of warriors and survived, the storm raven killed a monolith and a few warriors and was shot down last turn of the game, the mephstar killed two squads of warriors, a squad of praetorians, and his lord, and survived.

That was the first game I ever played with a storm raven and I could not have been more pleased with it.


If I played in a meta where I thought I had a high chance of it getting shot down, then I'd probably load it with 5 melee scouts, because that's 15 S5 attacks on the charge, against a vehicle 10 will hit, and 3 will damage, so your wimpy 55 pt scout squad could charge a wave serpent and kill it, which I LOVE.

But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

Martel732 wrote:

1850 pts

Mephiston
Level 2 libby w/jump pack

Tac squad plasma combiplasma, las.plas razor
Tac squad plasma combiplasma, las.plas razor

10 x DC, jump packs, 2X powerfist, level 2 libby joins and manifests sangunius

9 X sternguard, rhino, Mephiston joins this squad

3 X MM attack bikes

5 X bikers, combi-grav, 2 X grav

Fast tri-las pred

Fragnought, meltagun, drop pod, deathwind launcher

Thanks Martel, I love that list and already own most of the elements to it, will be very strongly considering this for future lists!

I'm counting on not having to defend against air attacks.

Mephy gets biomancy or divination depending upon opponent.

I'm still refining my Dante/dual Stormraven list. I really hate reserves, so I'm having trouble getting to look the way I want.

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

Not necessarily. I had a game where my 3 Stromravens survived. Plus you could elect to use the skies of fury rule if you don't want to hover but drop a squad of for shooting purposes.

 DarthOvious wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

Not necessarily. I had a game where my 3 Stromravens survived. Plus you could elect to use the skies of fury rule if you don't want to hover but drop a squad of for shooting purposes.

That's true, but the five scout scheme requires a hover. Sometimes doable, sometimes not.

Martel732 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

Not necessarily. I had a game where my 3 Stromravens survived. Plus you could elect to use the skies of fury rule if you don't want to hover but drop a squad of for shooting purposes.

That's true, but the five scout scheme requires a hover. Sometimes doable, sometimes not.

It requires one turn of hover, and that's after at least one turn of zooming + shooting to full effect.

If you zoom in, shoot four weapons at something big, drop to hover, shoot 3 more weapons at something big, dump the scouts, have them blow up something big, and then jink, shoot, you've done some serious work at that point, you can get shot down
and if you don't, go back to zooming the following turn.

Interesting list, Martel.

Im kind of tickled that the actual BA tactics thread is dead and this one is doing well. I also feel like we've made more progress on this thread, lol.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Interesting list, Martel.

Im kind of tickled that the actual BA tactics thread is dead and this one is doing well. I also feel like we've made more progress on this thread, lol.

I started with Mephy and naked Sternguard because I like that unit a lot and went from there. Obviously, this list has weaknesses, but it's really hard to build out of the BA codex and not have weaknesses.

Part of the philosophy is to be able to hit at range and delay melee contact if I need to. Being fast is cool like that. I can also drive everything super fast right at a list like Tau.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Interesting list, Martel.

Im kind of tickled that the actual BA tactics thread is dead and this one is doing well. I also feel like we've made more progress on this thread, lol.

Haah, I was thinking the same thing

Honestly i think BA is one of the few armies that can actually make an assault list work, just because we have a few really hyper efficient and powerful CC units. We just have to focus on those units.

Take my list, for example. 20 death company is just too hard for a lot of armies to deal with before enough of them reach enemy lines. The sanguinary guard are almost impervious to small arms fire, and with dante they have someone who can actually tank wounds. The fragnought is the perfect distraction carnifex, and the ravens provide ranged anti tank firepower. Even the scouts pose a threat if not dealt with, and have extremely versatile deployment options.

What this equates to is a list that gives the opponent too much stuff to shoot at. If they choose the death co or guard ( and you have made adequate use of cover) then the scouts start popping tanks or assaulting weak units, and the fragnought vaporises a unit a turn. If you deal with the more immediate threats, suddenly your army is getting torn to shreds by a bunch of bloodthirsty lunatics. All the whole the 2 ravens (who now come in reliably on turn 2) buzz around cracking open problem targets and stripping hull points off of knights.

Not sure I'd count on two ravens to kill a significant amount of armor.

I don't really settle on lists as such. I usually rotate around a bit. At the moment I'm using the triple Stormraven formation with some drop pod units. Ideas for future includes a bike list with lots of bikes, captain on a bike with a shield and a priest on a bike. Lots of drop pods so I can do a drop pod list. Some more melta assault squads, even though I already have some so I can do lot of drop pods with lots of melta and I also want to sort out some Vanguard units all with power weapons so I can do the other formation.

My biggest surprise is that I have been playing Blood Angels since 3rd edition and I find myself in a position where I need to buy A LOT of Blood Angels stuff. It's crazy.

 Walnuts wrote:
Well, you could give it legacy of mars so it'd actually have tank hunter...
Wouldn't be too terrible on an assault cannon Raven

Actually, you cannot give Legacy of Mars to a storm raven. The Legacy specifically calls out 'space marine tank', not vehicle.

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

What do you guys like to use as a backfield firebase for BA?
I was thinking razors (first few turns), preds, sicarans, even sniper scouts etc

I've been using the Flesh Tearers detachment for lascannon/plasma RB spam. They make a pretty great backfield.... And front field..... And mid field.


Lascannons everywhere, backing up DC and a fragioso. It's been fun.

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

I can glance out AV 12 really easily with practically any list I field.

InsTincT_OP wrote:
What do you guys like to use as a backfield firebase for BA?
I was thinking razors (first few turns), preds, sicarans, even sniper scouts etc

Just did a full thread about this here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/635533.page

TLR version, everyone loves the sicaran with legacy of mars, but you only get one, tri-las or auto-las predators are popular, rapier batteries are dirt cheap, and sniper scouts will almost never kill their points back, and are only good against infantry, but they're a troop choice, they can be decently survivable if they have camo cloaks and are behind cover, and will do serious work against c'tan and wraithlords / knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:
Well, you could give it legacy of mars so it'd actually have tank hunter...
Wouldn't be too terrible on an assault cannon Raven

Actually, you cannot give Legacy of Mars to a storm raven. The Legacy specifically calls out 'space marine tank', not vehicle.

Whoopsth! That's right, flyers can only take certain legacies.

Guess you could give that legacy to a Caestus Assault Ram for some dumb reason tho

Martel732 wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

I can glance out AV 12 really easily with practically any list I field.

Sure if it's sitting out in the open with no access to a cover save. Like I said though you've got options; flat out, jink, both if you really want. And even if you do take it out it's a significant amount of firepower that the rest of my army doesn't have to endure.

I don't go into a game anticipating no losses, so why there's no reason to be precious about a SR if it's job was to deliver a punchy unit and it does it. If it does it and offer a few rounds of shooting it a bonus.

D

What do you guys think the optimal number of stormravens is for games above 1500pts? And what do you think about the angels fury formation? Personally, I dont really like it as I dont have room for my toys.

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

I can glance out AV 12 really easily with practically any list I field.

Sure if it's sitting out in the open with no access to a cover save. Like I said though you've got options; flat out, jink, both if you really want. And even if you do take it out it's a significant amount of firepower that the rest of my army doesn't have to endure.

I don't go into a game anticipating no losses, so why there's no reason to be precious about a SR if it's job was to deliver a punchy unit and it does it. If it does it and offer a few rounds of shooting it a bonus.

D

I personally find losing models that expensive to be catastrophic.

So you're expecting to not lose models?

Maybe is just me and my close play group, but all of us are super aggressive players, with me and a guy i consider my mentor more than most. It's a game about shooting and assaulting things, so stuff is just going to die. If i lose a 230 point jet to take out a 180 point tank, but it draws 3-4 units worth of firepower away from my death company/sanguinary guard, ill consider it a win. The second my assault units hit enemy lines i start regaining that deficit of points and then surpass them.

I don't mind losing models. Its a part of the game.

Fair enough Martel. I appreciate that your meta sounds much more competitive, and such a huge points loss can be detrimental to your game.

However I think SR are viable in most metas. I think th3maninblak nailed the how the tides of battle can swing and losing a large unit doesn't necessarily spell the end of a game.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Fair enough Martel. I appreciate that your meta sounds much more competitive, and such a huge points loss can be detrimental to your game.

However I think SR are viable in most metas. I think th3maninblak nailed the how the tides of battle can swing and losing a large unit doesn't necessarily spell the end of a game.

D

I think stormravens are viable in almost any meta, honestly. Though I do agree with Martel in the sense that putting a super expensive assault unit in a raven and losing them all when it gets shot down can be catastrophic.

I have been considering the angels fury spearhead formation recently, but the base cost is over 1000pts, so I dont think I could fit in everything I want to. What do you guys think about this formation?

Combine is with Astorath, a sang priest and Dante with DC coming in for a first turn assault.

It's the bees knees.

Any discussion about tactics should really include your mission types and opponents.

Competitive lists for eternal war and maelstrom are vastly different. Lists for games with friends, down your local shop/club or at a tournament are vastly different.

If I ever get around to playing any more 40k, I'd probably go with this competitive list in my setting (Maelstrom missions, friendly competitive setting, no wave serpents or adamantium lance)

1500pts, Baal Strike Force
Priest w/ Bike
5x DC w/ JP, Axe
5X DC w/ JP, Axe
5x DC w/ JP
5x DC w/ JP
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
Allied Imperial Knight Paladin

Martel732 wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But you still have to hover the Raven, in which case it's dead.

I just don't think this is true in 7th.

Vehicles are alot more resilient in 7th as we know, on top of this after you've dropped your dudes off you can flat out (up to 18") to hide from any scary anti-tank. On top of this you can still jink whilst hovering, gaining a 4+.

If you don't want to jink, remember that that if dudes have disembarked you've only moved 6", so as a fast skimmer you can fire ALL your weapons. Which can be a great time to release all of your rockets.


As I outlined in my previous post the biggest problem with Storm Ravens as transports is that you may have to sacrifice alot of your fire power potential to ensure you deliver you dudes to do the face punching. It's an interesting trade off so really you want whatever is doing the punchy to be targeting a high priority target and neutralising it's effectiveness.

D

I can glance out AV 12 really easily with practically any list I field.

Sure if it's sitting out in the open with no access to a cover save. Like I said though you've got options; flat out, jink, both if you really want. And even if you do take it out it's a significant amount of firepower that the rest of my army doesn't have to endure.

I don't go into a game anticipating no losses, so why there's no reason to be precious about a SR if it's job was to deliver a punchy unit and it does it. If it does it and offer a few rounds of shooting it a bonus.

D

I personally find losing models that expensive to be catastrophic.

230pts isn't really a big points sink. You could spend that on a unit of Death Company and then watch as they get wiped out by Dark Reapers. Sometimes you lose units in this game. You just need to do your best to avoid the traps and work around them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

InsTincT_OP wrote:
I have been considering the angels fury spearhead formation recently, but the base cost is over 1000pts, so I dont think I could fit in everything I want to. What do you guys think about this formation?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have been considering the angels fury spearhead formation recently, but the base cost is over 1000pts, so I dont think I could fit in everything I want to. What do you guys think about this formation?

I've been using it myself. Still trying to get a feel for it but so far it's worked out not too bad in the games I've played. I've been taking along with it a priest, a small squad of scouts, Cassor the Damned, 8 Death Company with a Drop Pod and also 2 fast attack dreadnoughts. For the campaign we are doing I also get a free Librarian worth upto 150pts tjhat doesn't take up an army slot.

I had two games at the weekend there, both games I was up against the same player however the first game was 1vs1 and the second game was 2vs2. The player I played against took a Storm Sword supper heavy along with a massive platoon of guardsmen of about 50 guys to bubble wrap his tank all behind an aegis line. In the first game I lost to objectives, but I did manage to wipe out his guardsmen platoon with the Death Company and Cassor. The Tactical squads even made a contribution. At the end I still had one Stormraven and two drop pods left and he had his Assassin and a small squad of guardsmen left. In the second game we won on objectives but this time I managed to fail a ridiculous charge. My Death Company was quite literally only 3 inches away from his guard squad before charging but I rolled 3 on the dice and had to take away 2 because I was going through an aegis line to get to him and I also failed a ridiculous charge similar to that one with one of the tactical squads when they got out. However we still won the second game and still managed to blow that super heavy up.

Bartali wrote:
Any discussion about tactics should really include your mission types and opponents.

Competitive lists for eternal war and maelstrom are vastly different. Lists for games with friends, down your local shop/club or at a tournament are vastly different.

If I ever get around to playing any more 40k, I'd probably go with this competitive list in my setting (Maelstrom missions, friendly competitive setting, no wave serpents or adamantium lance)

1500pts, Baal Strike Force
Priest w/ Bike
5x DC w/ JP, Axe
5X DC w/ JP, Axe
5x DC w/ JP
5x DC w/ JP
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
Allied Imperial Knight Paladin

Is this an updated version of Blood Rodeo?

Do you think the spearhead strikeforce could be used competitively?

Or the sanguine wing?
I used that thing once and loved it.

Det Thyge wrote:

Bartali wrote:
Any discussion about tactics should really include your mission types and opponents.

Competitive lists for eternal war and maelstrom are vastly different. Lists for games with friends, down your local shop/club or at a tournament are vastly different.

If I ever get around to playing any more 40k, I'd probably go with this competitive list in my setting (Maelstrom missions, friendly competitive setting, no wave serpents or adamantium lance)

1500pts, Baal Strike Force
Priest w/ Bike
5x DC w/ JP, Axe
5X DC w/ JP, Axe
5x DC w/ JP
5x DC w/ JP
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike
Allied Imperial Knight Paladin

Is this an updated version of Blood Rodeo?

I'd love to see Blood Rodeo again.
Besides, I made a thread about it too Here.
I used allies though.

How would you guys go about making a dual formation (angels fury spearhead and baal strikeforce) list?

I wouldn't even touch that thing below 2k points, instinct, but if I did, I'd take the three cheapest units possible to hold points on my side of the board, like maybe 2 scout squads and a rapier, or a whirlwind even, then spend as many points as I have left over on drop pod units, fragiosos, death company on foot, mephiston and corbulo.

I was thinking similar tbh. I dont think I would use those as a dual formation list.

So i think we have enough information to classify several different types of semi competitive or better BA lists.

-Full drop pod
-drop pod with DanteStar
-DoA (with Dante, of course)
-blood jumpers (death co/sanguinary guard spam)
-blood rodeo (biker spam)
-mechanized/msu

Seems like a good start.

Looks good to me man.
Do you think you could use a few of those and still make a competitive list?

I've had fun games with the SethStar.

15 DC with Seth and a Libby for Quickening

The only BA list making waves at the moment is pods with dantestar. I posted this in the BA tactics thread but ill repost the general idea here.

Baal strike force or flesh tearers detachment (the one with 1-6 fast attack slots)

Dante

Priest with a jump pack and some combination of angels wings,valours edge and/or veritas vitae

8-10 sanguinary guard with 2 fists and a banner

7-9 drop pods with 3+ tri melta assault marine squads and some mix of flamer tac squads, fragnoughts or sternguard

Allied iron hands detachment

Chapter master with hammer/fist, shield eternal, artificer armor and bike

5x scouts

Works at either 1850 or 2000 points.

That's kinda depressing.

 TranSpyre wrote:
I've had fun games with the SethStar.

15 DC with Seth and a Libby for Quickening

How about 14 Death Company instead? They would fit inside of a LRC.
Footslogging isn't only a way to get them killed, it also limits your choice of targets greatly.

 th3maninblak wrote:
The only BA list making waves at the moment is pods with dantestar. I posted this in the BA tactics thread but ill repost the general idea here.

Baal strike force or flesh tearers detachment (the one with 1-6 fast attack slots)

Dante

Priest with a jump pack and some combination of angels wings,valours edge and/or veritas vitae

8-10 sanguinary guard with 2 fists and a banner

7-9 drop pods with 3+ tri melta assault marine squads and some mix of flamer tac squads, fragnoughts or sternguard

Allied iron hands detachment

Chapter master with hammer/fist, shield eternal, artificer armor and bike

5x scouts

Works at either 1850 or 2000 points.

Sometimes it seems like this is the only kind of BA list I see.
I'm not a fan of it for several reasons. All-points-in-one-basket-deathstar, multiple small units that get killed pretty quickly, no anti-air or any gun worth mentioning with a range longer than 12".
Especially the anti-tank options seem limited. Any list with 2+ Wave Serpents is simply going to laugh your podding meltas off. And even against low AV you cannot guarantee any results with only two Meltaguns.

Actually, with 3 tri melta asm squads and 2 dual melta tac squads you can put 11 melta guns on target turn 1. Its enough to crack wave serpents, even if they have gone first.

With your bike squads what do you kit the Sarges out with? Combi Grav? Power Weapon??

Also would it be wise including an attack bike in a bike squad - having a 1k point game tonight and thought id chuck a unit of bikes in the mix to see how they do.

And on top of that, if kitting a priest out on a bike to go with em, keep him bare minimum (+1 point for additional weapon still) or give him a grav or power weapon of some sort.

Do you guys think that 2 predators/ sicarans and 2 razors (until they move up) will be a good firebase for BA? And eould someone please remind me of the upgrades you can give to the sicarans? Thanks

 th3maninblak wrote:
The only BA list making waves at the moment is pods with dantestar. I posted this in the BA tactics thread but ill repost the general idea here.

Baal strike force or flesh tearers detachment (the one with 1-6 fast attack slots)

Dante

Priest with a jump pack and some combination of angels wings,valours edge and/or veritas vitae

8-10 sanguinary guard with 2 fists and a banner

7-9 drop pods with 3+ tri melta assault marine squads and some mix of flamer tac squads, fragnoughts or sternguard

Allied iron hands detachment

Chapter master with hammer/fist, shield eternal, artificer armor and bike

5x scouts

Works at either 1850 or 2000 points.

Yet I'd end up loosing If I ever played that list.

I can't stress this enough. This isn't 5th ed, there is no one size fits all list. What makes a 'competitive' BA list is heavily dependant on the missions used and the enviroment you play in

 th3maninblak wrote:
Actually, with 3 tri melta asm squads and 2 dual melta tac squads you can put 11 melta guns on target turn 1. Its enough to crack wave serpents, even if they have gone first.

I don't think the Serpent Shield works on back armour either, so if he goes first then he better not have moved up the table leaving a space behind him.

InsTincT_OP wrote:
Do you guys think that 2 predators/ sicarans and 2 razors (until they move up) will be a good firebase for BA? And eould someone please remind me of the upgrades you can give to the sicarans? Thanks

I'd go for a Sicaran with LC sponsons and Schism of Mars and two tri-las preds. Throw in 2 tac squads in LC/plasma razors and it should be pretty decent.

Thanks. Im not too familiar with forge world rules. I can find a pdf to the venator tank destroyer but not the regular sicaran. Does the schism of mars allow for skyfire?

 th3maninblak wrote:
Actually, with 3 tri melta asm squads and 2 dual melta tac squads you can put 11 melta guns on target turn 1. Its enough to crack wave serpents, even if they have gone first.

11 Melta shots is about 8 hits and since they won't all do damage, that's about six Hull Points taken off, assuming that he fails all of his 3+ Jinks (2+ if there's Night Fighting).
So half of your army can destroy two Wave Serpents if they all land within Melta range.

I really think that you'd do better with a tri-Las Predators or a Sicaran.

" if they all land within Melta range. "

That's the caveat.

I don't particularly like the list either, but apparently it works. Or at least it did for the guy playing it. No need to flame the messenger, im just adding to the conversation =p

In many ways, I like my idea of a biker star more than the sanguinary guard. They are cheaper and their FNP is harder to turn off, and they have much better shooting.

So I ran with the following 1k points list last night:

Sanguinary Priest (Warlord)
Bike
Valours Edge
Extra weapon (you can do this while he is on a bike right?)

Sanguinary
Power Axe
Extra weapon
Angel's Wings

Scouts
5x Snipers
Cloaks

Scouts
4x Snipers
Missile Launcher

Death Company (5)
Jump Packs
1 Pfist, 2 Pweaon, 2 Chainsword
1 Bolter (wtih fist) 4 bolt pistol

Assault Squad (5)
2 Melta Gun
1 First (my assault sargents are modelled with fists atm...)

Bike Squad (5 Bikes)
2x Grav
Power Weapon on Sargent
1x Attack Bike w/ MultiMelta

Predator
Tri-las
Overcharged engines.

The priest on bike went with the bikes, the jump pack priest went with the assault squad and stayed in reserve... I made this list to play against a mate who had been talking up a space wolf terminator list he had created....dude rocks up with 1000 points of Guardsmen instead. 2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks, 1 Sentinel, and a gakload of troops (think 63 infantry he said) with a range of heavy weapons dotted throughout...

I thought I was utterly screwed but this list actually went quite well, the extra toughness on the bikes meant I could FNP against his battle cannons yaaaaay. The wings on the priest let me reroll the scatter on the melta squad (didnt need to in the end) which was awesome. Decided to start the DC on the board, they pretty much got ignored for 2 turns as he shot everything he could at my predator. Once I got stuff into combat it was game over for him, I just watched his sqauds run off the table ... That being said I won by a single victory point due to line breaker.

This was my first time using bikes as Blood Angels (I have about 30 that I got on eBay a year or 2 ago that were originally intended to be used as a White Scars chapter). I am thinking of painting up a full squad of bikes and kit bashing a nice looking priest on bike to go with them after their performance in the game... Although I might magnetize the weapons - not sure if grav is always the best option or not.

Jink and FNP the battle cannons for 4+++/5++++.

I think the advantage of sanguinary guard vs bikes is offensive power. Master crafted power weapons and 10 point fists are pretty amazing, and while they are less durable vs things like melta and lascannons, theyre equally as durable (if not more so) vs ap3 shooting at str7 and below, and more durable vs battle cannons and missiles. Plus when you have 1 or 2 four wound dudes with eternal warrior tanking shots, it durability doesnt matter as much.

 th3maninblak wrote:
I think the advantage of sanguinary guard vs bikes is offensive power. Master crafted power weapons and 10 point fists are pretty amazing, and while they are less durable vs things like melta and lascannons, theyre equally as durable (if not more so) vs ap3 shooting at str7 and below, and more durable vs battle cannons and missiles. Plus when you have 1 or 2 four wound dudes with eternal warrior tanking shots, it durability doesnt matter as much.

Bikes are cheaper and shootier and I like that.

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
I think the advantage of sanguinary guard vs bikes is offensive power. Master crafted power weapons and 10 point fists are pretty amazing, and while they are less durable vs things like melta and lascannons, theyre equally as durable (if not more so) vs ap3 shooting at str7 and below, and more durable vs battle cannons and missiles. Plus when you have 1 or 2 four wound dudes with eternal warrior tanking shots, it durability doesnt matter as much.

Bikes are cheaper and shootier and I like that.

Fair point.

Sanguinary guard are more killy and i like that, so we'll just agree to disagree =)

But in all seriousness i think the blood rodeo style lists definitely have legs. My favorite was a double CAD baal strike force detachment with 4 priests on bikes and 4 squads of bikes, all with grav and backed up by 2x5 jump pack death co (to fill mandatory elite slots) and 4 squads ofpr scouts. We have our own set of advantages that set us apart from white scars. We lack scouts and objective secured, and dont have the always popular command squad, but our bikes have easy access to feel no pain and are str and init5 on the charge. Pretty slick if you ask me.

Why have 1 when you can have both? I'm seriously considering getting some bike's as I'm liking what I'm hearing about them.

Before I jump in an start painting all my bikes red - would I not benefit more from making a white scars allied detachment? Or do you think I am better off taking them as BA for the +1WS from the priest?.. Or both...1 full squad of BA bikes + an attack bike with a priest then a white scars allied detachment (Again just the special character on bike and maybe 1 full squad for the troop choice).

 th3maninblak wrote:
We lack scouts and objective secured, and dont have the always popular command squad, but our bikes have easy access to feel no pain and are str and init5 on the charge. Pretty slick if you ask me.

Dunno... bikes aren't meant for CC, and WS have the advantage of +1HoW, HnR and Skilled Rider. Not to mention +1JInk.
Grav Command Squad is very nasty and ObSec means you need to completely wipe out enemy troops, which means you don't shoot at their big guns (which BTW can contest your troops).
I'd take WS as allies and stick there a Sang Priest for 3+/3+++/5++++ Grav Bikes. Since focus fire is removed you don't even need to worry about Sang Priest having a 4+ cover save.

What are your favourite formations?
Atm, I am looking at the angels fury formation, do you guys think that it could work well?

My current list is:

Dante
220

Sanguinary Priest
Valours edge, jump pack, bolt pistol
96

Sanguinary Guard
5man
Chapter banner, 2 infernus pistol, power fist
220

Death company
8man
jump packs, 2 power weapons, 2 power fists
264

Furioso Dreadnought
Frag cannon, magna grapple, heavy flamer
130
(in a drop pod- 35)

Tactical squad (x2)
5man
Plasma gun, sergeant with combi-plasma
95 (x2- 190)

In razorbacks
las/plas
85 (x2- 170)

Assault Squad (x2)
5man
2 meltaguns, sergeants with combi-melta
115 (x2- 230)
(in drop pods- free)

Stormraven
Assault cannon, multi melta
200

Predator (x2)
Overcharged engines, lascannon sponsons
125 (x2- 250)

-2005 pts

Before we got access to grav guns I was working on an idea for an ap2 death squad that basically consisted of a bike squad with dual plas, combo plas sarge, bike priest and a bike Libby with staff.

The idea was the Libby would roll on biomancy as there's some decent ap2 shooting powers, but there's also the chance to get ap2 a 4++ or ironarm making you T8 and S10 on the charge, which is pretty nidty. Now that we have Grav I'm considering reimagining it. The only major difference being that Priests are now HQs rather than elites.

I I'm thinking this would be best supported by a mech list with some jumping pressure units, I haven't given it enough thought to build a list around it, but thought I'd throw it out there and see if anyone has any insights?

I the idea of the BA bike rodeo I interesting,but I feel it's slightly 1 dimensional.

D

How would you guys go about building a dual formation list with angels fury and baal strikeforce?

InsTincT_OP wrote:
How would you guys go about building a dual formation list with angels fury and baal strikeforce?

With 2 scout squads on the table (in case you don't make that turn 1 roll).

Then a bunch of dreads on pods...turn 1 assault...win....(Until they FAQ it which surely they will).

I was considering adding a fragnought in a pod, 2 melta assault squad in pods and a dante star or some death company.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How would you guys build a list for the angels wing formation?

So I'm working on a list using the Sanguine Wing formation. Unsure of the exact loadout for the vanguards, but maybe 7 swords, and 3 axes and stormshields, with 5 plas and 5 melta on the sternguard. Rest of the list would be 2 priests to run with the vanguard vets, 2x10 death co and min sized scout squads as troops.

Thoughts?

Looks good, but im not familiar with that formation.

Its 2 squads of 10 vanguard veterans, one squad of 10 sternguard vets, and a stormraven. The sternguard have to ride in the raven, and the vanguards have to deep strike. The whole formation starts in reserves and comes in on a rerollable 3+. Additionally all vanguard vets may take a power weapon or lightning claw for free, and all sternguard may take a combi weapon for free.

But the Stormraven isn't free? So you've got free combi-weapons, but not till turn 2, and you don't get inertial guidance OR a disembark move? Not sure the power weapons and combis are worth it.

Landing Pad.

That only fixes one of the problems, right? I guess it's okay with a landing pad.

Unless that is unallowed? Still havent got exterminatus since BL sent me Leviathan and I decided to keep it.

I've quit literally burned quite a few units that regular DS and therefore stay in their clumped formation in order to shoot.

Yeh I'm always wary of shooting DS units rather than running them, due to ap3 blasts.

Yeah that is my main concern. Deep striking is awesome when tactically applicable, but is dangerous vs the right opponent.

But 400 points of free wargear is hard to pass up.

I had heard of that formation, but havnt seen anyone put a list on with it on here.
I guess the free power weapons and combis are nice, but I would likely add a few storm shields to make them more survivable. Do you guys think the vanguard vets with those upgrades would be better in cc than the dc and dante star?

Im not sure. I think that with priests escorting the vanguard vets, they become legitimately scary threats. But then you have to ask if theyre better than sanguinary guard, at that point. Lets compare the basic vanguard in this formation to a death company.

-Death Co- 23 points with jump pack
Feel no pain
Fearless
rage
relentless
5 attacks on the charge at str5 (and init5 with BSF)

-Vanguard Vet- 22 points with jump pack
Free power weapon
ATSKNF
4 attacks on the charge at str5 ap3 or str6 ap2
No init bonus from Baal Strike Force

I honestly dont know what is better.

I ran 3 5 man DC units with jps against my friends eldar the other day. A squad of 5 and a squad of 4 managed to make it into combat. I didn't include any power weapons or fists so his Dire Avengers 4+ and his Warp Spiders 3+ really made a difference. Even when 3 (2 as one died to overwatch) later charged his guardian squad, the 5+ came into play to ensure he lost very few guardians. I really wished I'd included at least 1 powersword in each squad.
I think many of us look at the ap3 of powerswords and overlook the fact that it is also efficient on poorer armour save models too. I'm definitely guilty of this.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Yeah that is my main concern. Deep striking is awesome when tactically applicable, but is dangerous vs the right opponent.

But 400 points of free wargear is hard to pass up.

The power weapons are frequently superfluous, though. Oh, these guys aren't init 5 on the assault? Forget that then.

Is the BSF really that good? I'm still using CAD as i don't fight many high Initiative armies.
Is everyone else using the BSF and formation's or sticking to CAD? Is there any consensus as I'm not convinced the I bonus is necessary against most of the other codex's.

BSF makes a big difference against other marines, the most common opponent. Without BSF, you might as well pack it up against SW.

kryczek wrote:
Is the BSF really that good? I'm still using CAD as i don't fight many high Initiative armies.
Is everyone else using the BSF and formation's or sticking to CAD? Is there any consensus as I'm not convinced the I bonus is necessary against most of the other codex's.

I had some luck running BSF with a CAD of just 2HQ and a couple of tac squads - that way all my assaulty troops get the +1 I and my objective campers have obsec

I used the Sanguine Wing against the new necrons in exactly one game and they performed amazingly well.

I really want to try it against other opponents though to see how viable it is overall.

If you're going to add storm shields to the unit, give them to guys with one free lightning claw, as they won't lose a bonus attack.

Here's how I run my two vanguard squads:


3 power swords
3 power axes
2 power mauls
1 power lance
1 lightning claw / storm shield

Cool thing about having a squad with ten free power weapons is it allows you to model dudes with gear you'd NEVER pay actual points for, like a power lance or power maul.

Martel732 wrote:
BSF makes a big difference against other marines, the most common opponent. Without BSF, you might as well pack it up against SW.

This is a really good point. Striking before thunderwolves is gigantic, and hitting other MEQs before they hit back is also big. It lets us minimize casualties like we did in 5th ed. Additionally, other init5 units are normally fragile by comparison, so hitting simultaneously against them takes away that advantage. Finally, with with wraiths becoming increasingly popular, having access to units that can actually fight them is huge.

I'm not sure power mauls are worth it on VVs (unless fighting wraithknights). Most of the opponents which have 4+ are T3, so a powersword with FC will wound them on a 2+ anyway. Whilst most MCs are T5/6 with a 3+. I would rather wound on a 5+ and ignore armour than wound on a 3+ and give them a 3+ save.

Are Blood Angels the Space Marines for me if I really like the idea of Assault/Vanguard Marines and other Close quarters stuff?

Mudhen wrote:
Are Blood Angels the Space Marines for me if I really like the idea of Assault/Vanguard Marines and other Close quarters stuff?

Most definitely!

Though for the purposes of assaulting, vanguard veterans and assault marines are easily outclassed by death company and sanguinary guard, both of which are super killy =)

 th3maninblak wrote:
Its 2 squads of 10 vanguard veterans, one squad of 10 sternguard vets, and a stormraven. The sternguard have to ride in the raven, and the vanguards have to deep strike. The whole formation starts in reserves and comes in on a rerollable 3+. Additionally all vanguard vets may take a power weapon or lightning claw for free, and all sternguard may take a combi weapon for free.

Not that you should take them and nobody probably will but I thought I would point out that the Sternguard can have free storm bolters instead within that formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 th3maninblak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
BSF makes a big difference against other marines, the most common opponent. Without BSF, you might as well pack it up against SW.

This is a really good point. Striking before thunderwolves is gigantic, and hitting other MEQs before they hit back is also big. It lets us minimize casualties like we did in 5th ed. Additionally, other init5 units are normally fragile by comparison, so hitting simultaneously against them takes away that advantage. Finally, with with wraiths becoming increasingly popular, having access to units that can actually fight them is huge.

Used the Angel's Fury Spearhead twice again at the weekend there and won both games. I had Corbulo in the Death Company Squad in the morning and it's so disgusting on the charge. We are talking about I6 Death Company with WS5 and S5 on the charge. I was up against Chaos marines. He also deployed relatively close together so Cassor was also able to claim the bonuses from Corbulo and it was brutal. I only lost 4 Death Company and Cassor in the end. The Tactical Squads in the Stormravens just cleaned up and tidied up afterwards.

Afternoon game was a team game in which I teamed up with a Space Wolves player to go up against Eldar and Orks. I won that game too on Objectives. The Ork were used as a buble wrap for the Wave Serpents but we tied them up and eventually munched them. The Stormravens did nice by making the Wave Serpents jink. One Stormraven was blown up out the sky unfortunately with Corbulo and A Tact Squad in it but all in all I'm quite pleased with how we did.

EDIT: Thought I would just add my list:

Corbulo
1 Scout Squad, 6 men, all with Camo Cloaks and Snipers
Cassor the Damned
8 Death Company, 1 Power Sword, 1 Thunder Hammer, 1 Infernus Pistol with a drop pod
2 Fast Attack Drop Pods, one for Cassor and one empty for 2 drop pods first turn.

Angels Fury Spearhead
2 Stormravens with TL Multi Melta's and TL Lascannon & Hurricane Bolters
1 Storm raven with TL Plasma Cannon and Heavy Bolters & Hurricane Bolters
2 Tactical Squads with Melta Gun and Combi melta Sarg
1 Tactical Squad with heavy Flamer, Flamer & Combi Flamer Sarg

I also had a Librarian in my army but I get him for free as the campaign I am playing in allows me to have 150pts worth of Free Psykers. The rest of the army comes to about 1850pts.

I used cassor this weekend and realised when I double checked stats you can cased the quickening on him As he's a character unlike normal dc dreads. I then abused this for two rounds with 2 lucky d3 rolls of 3. Needless to say he's hard to deal with if you can get him into combat.
After a few games now I'm finding bsf is invaluable and can't see myself making a list without it.

Also found running a couple of basic jp dc squads worked really well as cheap distraction units, my opponent was so worried about them he want focusing on my dreads which rinsed him. Really starting to enjoy the new codex

dark_red wrote:
I used cassor this weekend and realised when I double checked stats you can cased the quickening on him As he's a character unlike normal dc dreads. I then abused this for two rounds with 2 lucky d3 rolls of 3. Needless to say he's hard to deal with if you can get him into combat.
After a few games now I'm finding bsf is invaluable and can't see myself making a list without it.

Also found running a couple of basic jp dc squads worked really well as cheap distraction units, my opponent was so worried about them he want focusing on my dreads which rinsed him. Really starting to enjoy the new codex

Yep, that's right. Cassor is a Character so quickening works well for him. I did consider putting the Librarian with the Death Company for this very reason but it does require Cassor to be relatively close by which isn't always optimal if I'm wanting to charge to different squads that a bit away but still within 12" of two of the stormravens.

I had 2 lib dreads, cassor and 2 frag furioso dreads all pod in that gam. Not my usual type of play style but was surprisingly effective and rather fun. My opponent targeted the furioso dreads first. Which meant cassor and a lib made it into combat without a scratch with the second lib just sitting behind buffing up.
Wanting to try dc, sg, cs and vanguard next to see which works best for What What, mainly soaking shots for dante and a lib to make it to combat but also for pure killing power

Poly Ranger wrote:
I'm not sure power mauls are worth it on VVs (unless fighting wraithknights). Most of the opponents which have 4+ are T3, so a powersword with FC will wound them on a 2+ anyway. Whilst most MCs are T5/6 with a 3+. I would rather wound on a 5+ and ignore armour than wound on a 3+ and give them a 3+ save.

Yeah, but that's the point I'm making, when they're all FREE you can use options that you'd never pay for otherwise. Let's say you're fighting all MEQs and you're not going to end up assaulting any vehicles. Stick your two power mauls up front when you deep strike in, because you are going to take casualties, so pull them first. No problem. And if for some reason you don't take any casualties, shoot, whatever unit you charge is going to die from 40 power weapon attacks, whether two of them are mauls or not.

Besides, there are just enough things they're better against that you're actually likely to run up against (necron wraiths, T4 or higher demons, light vehicles, 'ard boyz) that they're worth keeping around just in case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarthOvious wrote:


I also had a Librarian in my army but I get him for free as the campaign I am playing in allows me to have 150pts worth of Free Psykers. The rest of the army comes to about 1850pts.

Whoah, and you DIDN'T put a librarian dreadnought in that spare drop pod?

 Walnuts wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:


I also had a Librarian in my army but I get him for free as the campaign I am playing in allows me to have 150pts worth of Free Psykers. The rest of the army comes to about 1850pts.

Whoah, and you DIDN'T put a librarian dreadnought in that spare drop pod?

I did think about it but A Libby Dread is 150 points for a level 1 Psyker. So I wouldn't be able to get the 2nd Mastery Level. Do you think it's worth a shot? To be honest it would put a hole in their campaign since we get a sheet to roll on that gives us bonuses or negatives depending if the Psyker dies or not. I like to see how they apply the result that my Psyker loses a wound if I roll that in the even that I die.

haaah, I mean, they'd probably give you -1 hull point or something, but yeah man, I wouldn't say a level 1 librarian dreadnought is better than a level 2 regular librarian with some good gear in every list, but considering you have an empty drop pod, I'd 100% say it's better for your list

People on this board poo on librarian dreadnoughts a lot, but I use mine in 90% of the games I play, and he's never done me wrong

 Walnuts wrote:
haaah, I mean, they'd probably give you -1 hull point or something, but yeah man, I wouldn't say a level 1 librarian dreadnought is better than a level 2 regular librarian with some good gear in every list, but considering you have an empty drop pod, I'd 100% say it's better for your list

People on this board poo on librarian dreadnoughts a lot, but I use mine in 90% of the games I play, and he's never done me wrong

It would give me two charging dreadnoughts coming out of drop pods.

Yeah, and if you roll well you can get some serious psychic firepower out of that thing the turn that it drops, too.

Use pyromancy for a guaranteed heavy flamer if you're facing lots of light infantry, or the ultimate shot would be nailing multiple vehicles with the blood lance, which, maaan, I haven't done that since 5th edition, but it is sweeeet when you pull it off.

2k- Bloody Centstar
Baal Strike Det
LoW: Dante: 220

HQ:
Astorath-165

Troops:
2xTac Sqd x5-140

Elites:
DCx9: 2xPF, Jump Packs- 257
DCx9: 2xPF, Jump packs- 257
514

Fast:
Assault Marines: 2xMelta, combi-melta- 115
Drop Pod
Assault Marines: 2xMelta, combi-melta- 115
Drop Pod

SM CAD:

Tiggy: 165

2x5 Scouts w CCW: 110

3xCentStar: 3xGC, Sgt w Omni, LC: 350

ADL w Quad guns: 100

Total: 1994

What ya'll think? Might have problem against everything except daemons and maybe serpent spam.

Well, a double CAD blood angels+sentinels of terra just came in 2nd at the las vegas open. It was an interesting list. BA were mainly there for a veritas vitae librarian, fast attack pod and mephiston, but we still contributed.

Do you think a dual deathstar list could be possible in this codex?
I was considering a dantestar and assault terminators with th/ss, mephiston and maybe a priest or corbulo in a stormraven.

DC is probably the best deathstar in the codex.

Centstar anchor the middle destroying everything in range. Tac Sqd hold home objective with the ADL or used as a anvil for the DC. Scouts outflank to secure/contest objectives. Podded Assault marines to secure/contest objectives or also used as a anvil. The DC should be able to eat everything up it touches or tar pit other powerful deathstars. Invis Cents can last a long time and can also used as a emergency tarpit.

I wouldnt consider death company a death star. They arent durable enough to be classified as such.

They are, however, every bit as offensively powerful as other death star units, which means you can use death co to break your opponents super unit in half.

The closest thing Blood Angels have is the good ol' fashioned TH/SS termies in LRC with a mix of IC's.
Not that great for the points.

The other option is Dante + Priest + Sanguinary Guard.

Blood Angels don't generally work around an idea about death star. They're a good all-around assault force.

Sanguinary guard with dante and a priest CAN be a death star, but im finding that its more effective to go with a more minimalist approach. 5 sanguinary guard with a banner, fist, and inferno pistol is more than enough to do some damage, particularly when combined with the lord commander and a priest with valours edge. The whole shebang comes to a little over 500 points, which seems like a lot until you do the math on thunderwolf lord+iron priest on wolf+5 to 6 kitted out thunderwolf cav.

I'm going for 7 SG as 5 don't last long enough. Same with DC squad's, they just don't last. I've put mine up to 9 with 1 fist and I'm also considering a chaplin as well.

I am looking to combine BA with my AM, and I'm not sure how I should go about it. Right now I basically have the BA half of a Deathstorm box plus some Tac marines and a single Drop Pod. I have a ton of AM though. I was thinking something like this, proxying my storm troopers as scouts and picking Dante with some additional DC-

LoW- Dante
HQ- Sanguinary Priest
Troops-
Scouts 5x, Bolters
Scouts 5x, Bolters
Elites-
10x DC, JP, 2x Power Fist
Fast Attack-
5x Assault Marines, 2x Melta, Combi Melta, Drop Pod

Not sure where to stick the Sanguinary Priest, with the Assault Marines maybe? Should I give him a weapon?
Is 1 Death Company squad enough?

Does this sound like a good detachment to add to some AM? I was thinking Tank Commander (maybe pask punisher) and some artillery, a platoon for sitting on objectives?

Hey, you want an INSANE army list???
Well, do ya???
PM me for it.

I wouldn't bother taking a assault squad in a drop pod, just take the drop pod in the fast slot and stick Melta vets in.

Perhaps go BP/CCW on the Scouts rather Bolters. Getting the charge with Scouts for the S5 and capitalising on attacks is pretty sweet.

What exactly does the rest of your AM look like?

D

 th3maninblak wrote:
Im not really sure how to shave those points, Instinct. My knee jerk reaction is to drop the storm raven and fit in all the upgrades you need, but idk.

And Kaptin, i love casual gaming as much as the next guy, but this is a thread to figure out the competitive aspects of the 7th edition BA codex =p

oh.

What are your opinions on creating a deathstar with mephy, maybe a priest/ corbulo and 5 th/ss terminators in a stormaven?
My concern is that its kinda putting all your eggs in one basket.

Don't put things in a Stormraven. That's what I think about that.

Mephy is a utility piece now, not a deathstar guy.

Thats pretty much the size of it. Mephiston is one of our units thats almost as good getting charged as he is charging. 5+d3 str10 ap3 attacks that can reroll to hit is pretty terrifying for most units, so putting him with a squad of centurion devastators in a pod (for example) is an insane use of him. He can twin link their guns and defend them from most enemies that would assault them.

I didnt think it would be a good idea either tbh martel.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Thats pretty much the size of it. Mephiston is one of our units thats almost as good getting charged as he is charging. 5+d3 str10 ap3 attacks that can reroll to hit is pretty terrifying for most units, so putting him with a squad of centurion devastators in a pod (for example) is an insane use of him. He can twin link their guns and defend them from most enemies that would assault them.

Just like I put him with naked sternguards. Depending on my foe's list I can generate biomancy or divination. Both work very well with sternguard ammo and Mephy's CC stats. Just avoid 2+ armor, but that's why the rest of the list is plasma, MM, and lascannons. And some DC if I have to punch really hard. Sternguard with endurance are stupid good.

Martel732 wrote:
Don't put things in a Stormraven. That's what I think about that.

Mephy is a utility piece now, not a deathstar guy.

I find them to be quite a good death company delivery system

sm3g wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Don't put things in a Stormraven. That's what I think about that.

Mephy is a utility piece now, not a deathstar guy.

I find them to be quite a good death company delivery system

Can't charge till turn 3? No thanks. The game might be decided by then.

Martel, ive been having luck with the sanguinary/divination split. Swapping out on div for prescience gives him boosted combat ability and some utility with things like sternguard, centurions, etc. Whatever you roll on sanguinary is probably worse than the quickening, so just swap out for that too.

 evildrcheese wrote:
I wouldn't bother taking a assault squad in a drop pod, just take the drop pod in the fast slot and stick Melta vets in.

Perhaps go BP/CCW on the Scouts rather Bolters. Getting the charge with Scouts for the S5 and capitalising on attacks is pretty sweet.

What exactly does the rest of your AM look like?

D

I thought Imperial Guardsmen would get squashed trying to take a Drop Pod? I know this rules-wise possible but can they do it fluff wise? Just curious...

The rest of my AM list would be-
HQ-
Pask Punisher, MM Sponsons, LC
Executioner PC boat

Troops-
Looking for suggestions here

Fast-
Vendetta

Heavy-
Looking for suggestions here, I can a couple of Russes or a Manticore.

Cool interactions between BA and guard: sanguinary priests joining infantry platoons to give them feel no pain, and vet squads in drop pods purchased in BA fast attack slots.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Martel, ive been having luck with the sanguinary/divination split. Swapping out on div for prescience gives him boosted combat ability and some utility with things like sternguard, centurions, etc. Whatever you roll on sanguinary is probably worse than the quickening, so just swap out for that too.

5++ invuln and extra attacks are both worth rolling for. I don't like splitting powers, so I usually run one sanguinius and one div/bio.

A couple notes on my experience with using Dante, Sang Guard and Sang Priest. I have run max Sang Guard with banner, 6 swords, 3 axe, 1 pf. Priest with a power weapon. Also joined is a jump libby with gallian's staff. I jumped and ran, then jump and charged turn 2. However, along with this, I experimented with having Mephiston join at the end of movement on turn one (usually starting in a rhino). With the run, he is able to get towards the front, so when they move on turn 2 he is able to keep up. In a friendly game against a tyranid player, I started him with the Sang Guard unit to counter attack a unit with the Swarmlord with attached hive guard. If I recall, Mephiston killed everyone at his initiative (although Dante rolled poorly and died). Last local tourney, the unit took out a deathstar space wolf calvary unit game one, destroyed 2 knights (including a Cerastus Knight-Castigator) and a LRC with occupants game 2, and on game 3 survived to charge a IG super heavy tank (if i recall correctly, its the baneblade variant that has 20 firepoints and has a a dual gattling gun of some sort on it that was fully loaded with a bunch of troops). Overall, having the mix of strength 5 through 10 ap2 and ap3 weapons worked well against everything I threw it at. For Mephiston...damn he's awesome, he's my new knight killer.

Wow, thats quite the body count for mephy! Ive really been wanting to fit him into more lists, but im finding it hard to actually utilize him.

Me too. I love mephy, even if hes not the mini mc he once was

He's actually better now, I think. Just very different. Access to LoS is huge.

Your likely right as I have no experience woth him in 6th or 7th

I have my first tournament coming up soon at the FLGS. It's 500p following the restrictions put forth here: http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2015/201540Kcp.pdf

I'll probably by facing a lot of different opponents: Marines, orks, tau, eldar. And then there's TFG who always plays some clever combination of stuff, who has ten armies and you never know what he's bringing.

I'm thinking about trying out a version of "Blood Rodeo": Bike make a screen in front of close-combat dudes with jump packs, providing them with a 5+ save, something to eat overwatch or something to absorb the charge. The assault dudes can then jump over the bikes and charge the opponents tied up in close combat. At least that's the plan - let hope I don't get punched in the face. Sanguinary priest provides FnP to bikes.

My initial plan in this. This amounts to 298 points.

HQ
Sanguinary Priest on bike

Elites
5 man Death Company, JPs

Fast Attack
3 man bike squad, 2x grav, combi-grav.

I need to add at least one troop choice, which I'm thinking about keeping as cheap as possible (pure troop tax) and adding bells and whistles/more bodies to the other units.

Model wise I'm pretty good and I'm able to kitbash/paint/buy a lot of the units that aren't Heavy Support.

Picture hardly related and mostly there for attention purposes

Looks like a good start to a list, but I dont know how good bikes are.
What do you guys think of allying ba with sw?
I was thinking perhaps a thunderwolf cavalry death star with mephy and a priest?

The guys from forge the narrative built a list like that when the BA dex first dropped. It was double CAD baal strike force+champions of fenris and centered around 5 thunder wolves with power fists and shields, dante, priest, wolf lord on thunderwolf, and 2 iron priests on wolves. I mean, itll work, if thats your cup of tea.

I dont know if I was going to take it, just an idea as I thought that a wolf lord, a priest/ corbulo and mephy could make a pretty deadly deathstar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having looked up twc for the first time, harald deathwolf seems to be a common inclusion.

Do you think that could work?

So i lost in the semi finals in the league to a bargelord spam+transcendent c'tan necron list using the old codex =( oh well, them's the breaks.

But theres another tournament coming up in 2 weeks thats 1650 (odd point value) with everything other than unbound allowed. This is the list im thinking of slinging.

1650 Baal Strike Force

LoW
-Dante

HQ
-Sanguinary Priest
Power sword
Jump pack

Elites
-10x Death Company
Jump packs
2x power fist

-10x Death Company
Jump packs
2x power fist

-5x Sanguinary Guard
Inferno pistol
Power fist
Chapter banner

Troops
-5x Scouts
Close combat weapons

-5x Scouts
Close combat weapons

Heavy Support
-Stormraven
Lascannon
Multi melta
Hurricane bolters

-Stormraven
Assault cannon
Multi melta
Hurricane bolters

Thoughts? Missions will be standard book, i think.

Looks good.
Although, according to battlescribe, never knew this until recently, but apparently baal strikeforce requires a relic of baal? If thats the case you could easily just replace the power sword with valours edge.
Im guessing the scouts go in the stormravens?
If you wanted to add more sanguinary guard, you could always remove the hurricane bolters and perhaps 1 or 2 death company.
Other than that, this looks like a good, fast moving force


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unlucky at your tournament though, but semis is a great result

InsTincT_OP wrote:
Looks good.
Although, according to battlescribe, never knew this until recently, but apparently baal strikeforce requires a relic of baal? If thats the case you could easily just replace the power sword with valours edge.
Im guessing the scouts go in the stormravens?
If you wanted to add more sanguinary guard, you could always remove the hurricane bolters and perhaps 1 or 2 death company.
Other than that, this looks like a good, fast moving force


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unlucky at your tournament though, but semis is a great result

If you are referring to "must have 1 more selections of Relics and Detchment-rules" that just means you have to pick a detachment so it knows which codex its pulling in its relics from, you dont have to take one.

Ok, my mistake

Got a tourney coming up and I'm deciding between these two lists:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/637973.page

I'd love to either get input on which list to take or minor tweak suggestions in that thread.

I like the first list a lot more, though there are 2 suggestions i would make.

The first is that i dont like 10 man assault squads. 5 is great, as you can load up on special weapons and deep strike with dante. 10 is clunky and they dont do anything that death company cant do better. The second is that if youre running astorath, load his squad up to 10 or 15 dudes.

Combat Patrol Tournament, TAC list, 500p:
Total: 501p

Sanguinary Priest (101p)
- Bike
- Bolt Pistol
- Valor's Edge

5 man Death Company (145p)
- Jump packs
- 2 power weapons
- No bolters, just BPs and chainswords, because WYSIWYG

5 man Scout Squad (55p)
- BPs and CCWs

5 man Scout Squad (55p)
- BPs and CCWs

5 man Bike Squad (145p)
- 2x grav
- Combi-grav

Comments, thoughts and questions:

There's two naked scout squads in there to unlock Red Thirst. I also hope they can make a marvelous mess of things with their ability to infiltrate/outflank. Also, a bunch of S5 attacks in CC at I5 could be fun.

BUT: Should I take a small Tac Squad instead?

Right now I have two power swords in the DC because WYSIWYG. Should I switch one for an axe? Should I shuffle some stuff around to get a PF?

Well,

I've got enough for my second list now and I ran it yesterday. Still have parts to get for two more lists, meaning I will have 4 in total. However my new list looks like this:

Commander Dante
Sanguinary Priest on Bike with Digi Weapons
Captain on Bike with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, also with digi weapons

10 man tactical squad with heavy flamer, flamer and combi-flamer on the sarg in a drop pod
5 scouts with sniper rifles and camo cloaks

9 Sanguinary Guard with a chapter banner, 6 swords and 3 axes
5 sternguard with combi-melta's in a drop pod

5 man bike squad with 2 grav guns and sarg with combi grav, also with an attack bike with multi-melta
5 man bike squad with 2 grav guns and sarg with combi grav, also with an attack bike with multi-melta
5 man assault squad with 2 melta guns and a sarg with a combi-melta in a drop pod

So basically Dante goes with the Sanguinary Guard. The priest and the captain go with one of the bike squads. Fairly standard, although I do admit it feels weird making a list with no Death Company in it.

What do you guys think of this list?

Blood Angels Baal Strikeforce (2000pts)

Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Baal Strike Force) (2000pts)

HQ (96pts)

Sanguinary Priest (96pts)
Additional Weapon (1pts), Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Jump pack (15pts)
Valour's Edge (20pts)
Melee weapon

Elites (639pts)

Death Company Squad (264pts)
6x Bolt Pistol, 6x Chainsword, 8x Death Company Marine (160pts), Jump Pack (24pts), Power Fist (25pts), Power Fist (25pts), Power Weapon (15pts), Power Weapon (15pts)

Furioso Dreadnought (165pts)
Magna-grapple
Drop Pod (35pts)
Storm Bolter
Power Fists (5pts)
Frag cannon (5pts), Heavy flamer

Sanguinary Guard Squad (210pts)
4x Angelus Boltgun, Chapter Banner (25pts), 4x Encarmine Sword, Inferno Pistol (10pts), Power Fist (10pts), 5x Sanguinary Guard (165pts)

Troops (360pts)

Tactical Squad (180pts)
Plasma gun (15pts), 4x Tactical Marine (56pts)
Razorback (85pts)
Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun (20pts)
Tactical Sergeant (24pts)
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma (10pts)

Tactical Squad (180pts)
Plasma gun (15pts), 4x Tactical Marine (56pts)
Razorback (85pts)
Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun (20pts)
Tactical Sergeant (24pts)
Bolt Pistol, Combi-Plasma (10pts)

Fast Attack (230pts)

Assault Squad (115pts)
4x Assault Marines (68pts), 2x Meltagun (20pts)
Assault Sergeant (27pts)
Chainsword, Combi-Melta (10pts)
Drop Pod
Storm Bolter

Assault Squad (115pts)
4x Assault Marines (68pts), 2x Meltagun (20pts)
Assault Sergeant (27pts)
Chainsword, Combi-Melta (10pts)
Drop Pod
Storm Bolter

Heavy Support (455pts)

Predator (125pts)
Autocannon, Lascannon (40pts), Overcharged engines (10pts)

Predator (125pts)
Autocannon, Lascannon (40pts), Overcharged engines (10pts)

Stormraven Gunship (205pts)
Extra Armour (5pts), Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta

Lords of War (220pts)

Commander Dante, Chapter Master of the Blood Angels (220pts)

Created with BattleScribe

Is this a decent list and what would you improve?
Apologies for the way its laid out, as this is my first time using battlescribe properly.

 th3maninblak wrote:
I like the first list a lot more, though there are 2 suggestions i would make.

The first is that i dont like 10 man assault squads. 5 is great, as you can load up on special weapons and deep strike with dante. 10 is clunky and they dont do anything that death company cant do better. The second is that if youre running astorath, load his squad up to 10 or 15 dudes.

Heh. My issue there is a lack of DC models. I started BA in their 5e book, so I only ever bothered to get one squad of 15 on foot to ride in a crusader with a reclusiarch. I've put their packs on and gotten a FEW more since then, but not many, and I probably won't have time to doll up any more of them before this tourney.

Thinking about just painting black over some asm, but I've always wanted to be able to run that one apoc formation that requires 100 jump pack asm, and I'm only like 20 pistol/sword dudes away.

So while the spirit is willing to make that change, the clock is not. :(

Is the cost of the Sanguine Wing worth it for the free wargear as an ally force? Still looking for an ally for my IG, and I like the idea of free combi weapons and power weapons.

This thread is a good read for me. I have not played since early 6th really and just saw that my BA got a new book. I worked my converted jump pack army models into a list and was looking for some feedback. I was noticing that you can't play a pure jump pack army anymore? Sad to see that if true but the point costs of my other units have gone down. Would my old models make a competitive list at all?

1750

HQ:
-2xSanguinary Priests (220 pts)
-Jump Pack, Power Sword, Infernus, Auspex

ELITE:
-10 Sanguinary Guard (390 pts)
-2 Power Fist/Angelus, 4 Glaives/Infernus, 4 Glaives/Angelus
-10 Vanguard Veterans (435 pts)
-2 Dual Claws, 2 Fist/BP, 2 Chain/BP, Paxe/BP, Paxe/PP, Psword/PP, Claw/BP

TROOPS:
-5 Tactical Marines (95 pts)
-4 Bolters, Missle Launcher with Flakk
-5 Tactical Marines (95 pts)
-4 Bolters, Missle Launcher with Flakk
-5 Scouts (55 pts)
-BP/CCW

FAST ATTACK:
-2x10 Assault Marines (460 pts)
-Veteran Sarge with Fist and Infernus, 2 Meltaguns

If you are referring to "must have 1 more selections of Relics and Detchment-rules" that just means you have to pick a detachment so it knows which codex its pulling in its relics from, you dont have to take one.

That's good to know. I was pretty confused for a moment there as I've been using the Strike Force detachment rules without taking a relic either. Being new to BA, I thought this was a little inclear when I first picked up the codex.

Instinct, that list is the best you have posted so far. I love it.

Thanks man. I got impatient of waiting for feedback on the thread I posted haha. Glad you like it, good to know I'm getting somewhere
Anything you would recommend changing?
Im nearly certain on this list now, and have started figuring out tactics.

 BladeWalker wrote:
This thread is a good read for me. I have not played since early 6th really and just saw that my BA got a new book. I worked my converted jump pack army models into a list and was looking for some feedback. I was noticing that you can't play a pure jump pack army anymore? Sad to see that if true but the point costs of my other units have gone down. Would my old models make a competitive list at all?

1750

HQ:
-2xSanguinary Priests (220 pts)
-Jump Pack, Power Sword, Infernus, Auspex

ELITE:
-10 Sanguinary Guard (390 pts)
-2 Power Fist/Angelus, 4 Glaives/Infernus, 4 Glaives/Angelus
-10 Vanguard Veterans (435 pts)
-2 Dual Claws, 2 Fist/BP, 2 Chain/BP, Paxe/BP, Paxe/PP, Psword/PP, Claw/BP

TROOPS:
-5 Tactical Marines (95 pts)
-4 Bolters, Missle Launcher with Flakk
-5 Tactical Marines (95 pts)
-4 Bolters, Missle Launcher with Flakk
-5 Scouts (55 pts)
-BP/CCW

FAST ATTACK:
-2x10 Assault Marines (460 pts)
-Veteran Sarge with Fist and Infernus, 2 Meltaguns

I don't personally like Infernus pistols. Dropping them would save you 120 points, which is a lot.
I think that your list is overall pretty good. The weak link might be Vanguard Veterans. Death Company is so much better for only one point more per model. It won't make that much difference since they'll have FnP anyway.
Also, their loadout is pretty ineffective for the cost. With ten models my choice would be six models with Chainsword/BP, two with either Power Sword or Lightning Claw and BP and two with PF.
After dropping the wargear you could afford Dante, who would be a great addition to your list as your list is full of jumpers.

 ultimentra wrote:
Is the cost of the Sanguine Wing worth it for the free wargear as an ally force? Still looking for an ally for my IG, and I like the idea of free combi weapons and power weapons.

I run the Sanguine Wing. So far, they've proved very effective in the games I played. I kit the VV with 2 power axes and 8 lightning claws and each is equipped with a Storm Shield. If I saved the points on the weapons, I spent it on defense.

The first two rounds are the setup. Round 3, the steamroller gets going. Round 4, they've been unstoppable.

The look on your opponents face when they don't get penalized for disordered charge is priceless.
The last game I played, I backed them with 4 Sister squads in Immolators. 3 of them never fired a shot because the Sanguine Wing was wrecking the backfield.

 Walnuts wrote:
You've got to be really careful using any kind of infantry characters to charge knights, tbh. It's super risky. Keep in mind any knight has a 33% per turn combat phase of just stomping a blast template out of existence, and someone like Gabe Seth, even though he strikes first, assuming he gets the charge (which would basically mean he jumped out of a storm raven or a land raider), will only do two hull points worth of damage on average, then it's time for all those stomp attacks to happen at the same time your power fists hit.

I've gotten dante stomped out, meph stomped out, corbulo stomped out, a generic sanguinary priest stomped out, and I've stomped out a wraithlord and a farseer.

It suuuuucks when it happens man.

I 100% sign off on using dual tri-las predators and a legacy of mars sicaran to chew through knights, and also, shoot, you're a blood angel, you should have no problem putting melta shots right into their back armor via deep strike.

Destroy those knights from a distance, soldier!

I concur with this sentiment entirely. I recently played a (mostly) good, strategic early game against a bit of a pud, but I foolishly tried rushing his Knight and the game was basically lost on it. Lesson learned for the inevitable rematch.

I also concur with the comment that DC is better than VV in most circumstances.

I've considered foot VV assaulting multiple units out of a crusader.

Had a 3000pt game the other day against my mates imperial guard - he tabled me turn 6.

Even though our victory points were close (he was 1 infront when tabling me 12 - 13) he absolutely flogged me points wise.

He ran a list an array of infantry (including like 50 conscripts) with heavy weapons everywhere. Transports for several squads.

A couple of sentinels and like 4 leman russ battle tanks, 1 demolisheer, and 2 vanquishers.

I ran:
Priest on Bike with Relic Power Weapon.
He joined a full strength bike squad (2 grav guns and a MM on the attack bike).

Priest With Relic Jump Pack
Dante
6x Vanguard Vets (fist, 4 power weapons, 1 chainsword).
These guys all ran together

Libby in terminator armour
5x Assault Terminators (3x TH + Shield, 2x twin LC).
Brother Corbulo
These guys all ran together in a Land raider crusader

DC Dreadnought (Cassor the Damned or what ever the troop option is called).
10x DC (1 FIst, 1 Hammer, 1 PW, rest chainswords) No Jump Packs
These guys all ran in a storm raven with Lascannons, Heavy Bolters, Hurricane Bolters.

5x Sternguard (2x combi-meltas).

5 Scouts with sniper rifles and camo cloaks

5x Tactical marines w/ plasma cannon

5x Tactical marines with Heavy Flamer
These guys were in a Las-Razorback.

1 Tri-las Pred

1 Vindicator

Starting on the board were the bikes, the scouts, the 2 tactical squads, the Crusader w/ Termies, the sternguard and the 2 tanks...
He stole the initiative so got first turn and absolutely reemed me. my Razorback, predator and vindicator all died turn 1.
Bikes got hammered by the Leman russ demolisher and died in the first couple of turns too.
Scouts were useless.
The Terminators are probably the only unit that did any good - Last unit to die and managed to take out 2 tanks and a squd of Ogryns (oh yeah he had Ogryns in a flying transport).

When I deepstriked in my dante squad to the back corner of his deployment I had 2 brain fades - first I forgot to run them so they got shot at in a nice clumped up bunch by the demolisher - lost like half of them.
Next turn I FORGOT TO FREAKING CHARGE and left them open to shooting from an infantry squad or 3 - Had I remembered to charge them that turn it might have been a different outcome TBH.. Would have locked up one of his squads (the one on his quad-gun behind his aegis) which means he wouldnt have nearly killed my storm raven (got crew stunned so it had to fly 18", had to do the deepstriking deployment thing with both my DC and DC Dread which was less than ideal).

Anyway, this list did not work one bit against a big gun line from the guard - would MSU spam be a better option? I dont want ot take all infantry since his battle cannons will make short work of them. I also dont want to take heavy armour since he seems to destroy that anyway.....

I think mephiston is a fantastic answer to knights. With the psychic powers i get, he usually averages 8 str10 attacks while charging that reroll to hit, which averages 5-6 hits and around 3 to 4 hull points. Assuming youve taken even 2 hull points off, he can reliably ace the knight before it gets to swing OR stomp

@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Don't use LRs.

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Martel732 wrote:
@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Don't use LRs.

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Ill take this on board!

I need drop pods by the looks of it!
What sort of shooting do you mean? Got a squad of missile launcher devs I could include. Also got a Baal Predator kitted with heavy bolters and assault cannon...

So I would be better off foot slogging everything up and hope things like dante don't get shot to pieces?

sm3g wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Don't use LRs.

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Ill take this on board!

I need drop pods by the looks of it!
What sort of shooting do you mean? Got a squad of missile launcher devs I could include. Also got a Baal Predator kitted with heavy bolters and assault cannon...

So I would be better off foot slogging everything up and hope things like dante don't get shot to pieces?

No, don't foot slog. Use drop pods, fast transports, and jump packs. In my BA lists, nothing moves slower than 12". A 45 pt Rhino can move you 24" and can protect you from potentially 3 demolisher shots.

Martel732 wrote:

sm3g wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Don't use LRs.

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Ill take this on board!

I need drop pods by the looks of it!
What sort of shooting do you mean? Got a squad of missile launcher devs I could include. Also got a Baal Predator kitted with heavy bolters and assault cannon...

So I would be better off foot slogging everything up and hope things like dante don't get shot to pieces?

No, don't foot slog. Use drop pods, fast transports, and jump packs. In my BA lists, nothing moves slower than 12". A 45 pt Rhino can move you 24" and can protect you from potentially 3 demolisher shots.

Ahh by foot slogging I meant including jump packs. Since I built most of my army last codex nearly everything has a jump pack anyway (except for my one painted tactical squad and 1 scout squad)..

I currently don't own any drop pods but I might look at buying some at some point, shame all my assault marines are built in 10 man squads with jump packs and a fist on the sarge

6/7 th editions have presented us with a dilemma. Razors and rhinos aren't assault transports, so we can't assault out of them no matter what.

BA want to assault. Really, really want to assault. As in +1 S +1 init (maybe) want to assault. Assault elements need to be on bikes or have jump packs. This makes them vulnerable to things like the demolisher.

Martel732 wrote:
6/7 th editions have presented us with a dilemma. Razors and rhinos aren't assault transports, so we can't assault out of them no matter what.

BA want to assault. Really, really want to assault. As in +1 S +1 init (maybe) want to assault. Assault elements need to be on bikes or have jump packs. This makes them vulnerable to things like the demolisher.

Yeah as far as im concerned rhinos/razors are reserved for tactical marines only, and in larger games I like to give them ObSec by taking a second CAD.

Bikes at least have jink to protect them somewhat from a demolisher (and jink + FNP for battle cannons). Although I am still wondering if I am better off just using white scars allies for this TBH.

Its the jump packs jumping up the table that is the biggest issue I think, so fragile.

The jump pack problem can be solved in a few ways, at least in my opinion.

1. Stay spaced out. Losing 2-4 models from a large blast is a lot better than losing the whole squad. Pay attention to your spacing, and stay exactly at the maximum 2 inch unit coherency whenever possible.

2. Have a character to tank wounds. Dante is a fantastic choice for this, as is a shield eternal master. They tank wounds from battle cannons all day, and can even eat a few demolisher rounds.

3. Stay in cover. Dangerous terrain is not anywhere near as scary as it was in 5th, and with the added mobility of a jump pack, jumping from one source of cover to the next is no problem. This also includes using line of sight blocking terrain to your advantage.

4. Take only the most efficient units. Death company are not so expensive that losing them is a huge deal, and assault marine squads should usually only be around 5 strong. Sanguinary guard are a bit more durable, and usually have a character to tank wounds, so this doesnt apply to them as much.

Martel732 wrote:
@sm3g:

Don't put units in Stormravens.

Use a Caestus Assault Ram instead

Don't use LRs.

Use a Caestus Assault Ram instead

Don't use assault terminators, even though they did a bit of good.

Use them but put them into a Caestus Assault Ram Instead

Don't put anything in reserve you don't have to. Deep striking is the devil.

Excpet the Caestus Assault Ram. That will go in reserve

Do: put a LOT more shooting in your list.

Like a Caestus Assault Ram

Do: use more drop pod melta units and drop pod furiosos w/frag cannon. (Don't use DC dreads; they stink)

Not relevant to a Caestus Assault Ram so I don't know.

Overall I agree with some of this but I like the DC Dreadnought. If you can delver it into combat via a Stormraven then it's awesome. Remember it gets 6 attacks on the charge. I like my Assault Termies too even if everybody else thinks they're rubbish I don't care.

I was thinking of using the new BA rules to run Black Templars, because it gives a nice choppy army. I know I lose Crusader squads, but this seemed more effective. I'd be playing Gabriel Seth as an Emperor's Champion, throwing him, a Corbulo stand-in and 14 DC into an LRC. Other than that, I'm not sure what to throw in. The list doesn't nee. To be super competitive, just fun while not throwing the game by playing.

+ HQ (120pts) +

Brother Corbulo, Keeper of the Red Grail (120pts) [Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak grenades, Heaven's Teeth, Narthecium, The Red Grail, Warlord Trait: Speed of the Primarch]

+ Elites (985pts) +

Death Company Squad (400pts) [14x Bolt Pistol, 8x Chainsword, 14x Death Company Marine, Frag and Krak grenades, 4x Power Weapon, 2x Thunder Hammer]

Sternguard Veteran Squad (195pts) [4x Combi-Melta, Frag and Krak grenades, Special Issue Ammunition, 4x Sternguard Veteran]
Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
Veteran Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]

Sternguard Veteran Squad (195pts) [4x Combi-Melta, Frag and Krak grenades, Special Issue Ammunition, 4x Sternguard Veteran]
Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
Veteran Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]

Sternguard Veteran Squad (195pts) [4x Combi-Melta, Frag and Krak grenades, Special Issue Ammunition, 4x Sternguard Veteran]
Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
Veteran Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]

+ Troops (330pts) +

Tactical Squad (165pts) [Frag and Krak grenades, Heavy flamer, 4x Tactical Marine]
Razorback [Overcharged engines, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Twin Linked Lascannon]
Tactical Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]

Tactical Squad (165pts) [Frag and Krak grenades, Heavy flamer, 4x Tactical Marine]
Razorback [Overcharged engines, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Twin Linked Lascannon]
Tactical Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]

+ Heavy Support (260pts) +

Land Raider Crusader (260pts) [Frag assault launchers, 2x Hurricane bolters, Pintle Multi-melta, Searchlight, Smoke launcher, Twin-linked assault cannon]

+ Lords of War (155pts) +

Gabriel Seth, Chapter Master of the Flesh Tearers (155pts) [Blood Reaver, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak grenades, Iron Halo, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Red Rampage

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Considering Assault Squads with double Melta and Combi-melta or Inferno Pistol many people take Pods instead of Jump Packs. If you are taking Dante in your list with Descent of Angels, why go with the Pod? Is it just another thing on the table that the opponent has to kill? I guess the Pod can't mishap easily, so there's that.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Considering Assault Squads with double Melta and Combi-melta or Inferno Pistol many people take Pods instead of Jump Packs. If you are taking Dante in your list with Descent of Angels, why go with the Pod? Is it just another thing on the table that the opponent has to kill? I guess the Pod can't mishap easily, so there's that.

Short answer? In my experience, you don't. Leave the packs on, come in very reliably on turn 2 with a higher degree of accuracy than with a drop pod. My list for the league had 2 tri melta assault marine squads and a command squad with jump packs and 3 melta guns. Needless to say, my opponents never got to fire their knights more than once per game.

 th3maninblak wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Considering Assault Squads with double Melta and Combi-melta or Inferno Pistol many people take Pods instead of Jump Packs. If you are taking Dante in your list with Descent of Angels, why go with the Pod? Is it just another thing on the table that the opponent has to kill? I guess the Pod can't mishap easily, so there's that.

Short answer? In my experience, you don't. Leave the packs on, come in very reliably on turn 2 with a higher degree of accuracy than with a drop pod. My list for the league had 2 tri melta assault marine squads and a command squad with jump packs and 3 melta guns. Needless to say, my opponents never got to fire their knights more than once per game.

Someone forgot to bubblewrap.

Yeah I like the Packs honestly but everyone takes the Pods. I think the option to Null Deploy and have everything come in reliably on turn 2 sounds pretty strong to me. Pods force you to alpha strike.

I'm glad there are others who play with Packs as well.

Or didnt have the ability to. Example: i faced an iron hands list that played the following.

Master of the Forge

5x Centurion Devastators with grav cannons

5x sniper scouts with cloaks

5x tac marines in a pod with melta+combi

3x mortis pattern contemptor dreads with 2 kheres pattern assault cannons and cyclone missile launcher

Imperial knight with melta cannon

Not all lists have the ability to bubble wrap to such a degree that a small squad that only scatters 1d6 cant slip in there.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Or didnt have the ability to. Example: i faced an iron hands list that played the following.

Master of the Forge

5x Centurion Devastators with grav cannons

5x sniper scouts with cloaks

5x tac marines in a pod with melta+combi

3x mortis pattern contemptor dreads with 2 kheres pattern assault cannons and cyclone missile launcher

Imperial knight with melta cannon

Not all lists have the ability to bubble wrap to such a degree that a small squad that only scatters 1d6 cant slip in there.

I guess not. His mistake.

In defense of Podded Assault Squads, when the pod lands you can correct 6" of that deviation with your deployment move.

So if you scatter 7", and you then deploy 6" out of the Pod, you've only deviated 1" from your intended destination. That's really good if you're using Inferno Pistols. Further, if you scatter on top of another unit, you aren't DS Mishapped, just redeployed a shorter distance. That makes them a more reliable choice, especially if trying to land in the back of a parking lot.

And then you also have a nuisance objective thief. For the price of 2.5 marines, you have an AV12 vehicle sitting around that had a reasonable chance of landing on an objective. If you have a 1" round objective, and we estimate a pod as having a 3" diameter, that pod could scatter 5" and still be claiming / contesting the objective. That would happen 52% of the time, if you tried to drop on top of an objective... and then the Assault squad can reposition 6" to get into range of something. A very nice bonus seeing as they're free.

Admittedly, on their own they're a suicide squad, but they can drop in to give backup to other units, like infiltrating Scouts. If they manage to fire twice in a game, they've probably succeeded at their intended use. Happening to hold an objective would be icing on an already awesome cake. Those Assault marines going to ground afterwards could be hard to shift, and the pod draws a vastly disproportionate amount of aggression if it's within 3" of an objective.

All of that is true. Bur if even one melta gunner survives with a jump pack he becomes a highly mobile threat to tanks, particularly light transports that he can assault. With dante the two strategies are roughly even.

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Considering Assault Squads with double Melta and Combi-melta or Inferno Pistol many people take Pods instead of Jump Packs. If you are taking Dante in your list with Descent of Angels, why go with the Pod? Is it just another thing on the table that the opponent has to kill? I guess the Pod can't mishap easily, so there's that.

Short answer? In my experience, you don't. Leave the packs on, come in very reliably on turn 2 with a higher degree of accuracy than with a drop pod. My list for the league had 2 tri melta assault marine squads and a command squad with jump packs and 3 melta guns. Needless to say, my opponents never got to fire their knights more than once per game.

Someone forgot to bubblewrap.

Nah, he ran out and didn't have time to go to the store to get some more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 th3maninblak wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Considering Assault Squads with double Melta and Combi-melta or Inferno Pistol many people take Pods instead of Jump Packs. If you are taking Dante in your list with Descent of Angels, why go with the Pod? Is it just another thing on the table that the opponent has to kill? I guess the Pod can't mishap easily, so there's that.

Short answer? In my experience, you don't. Leave the packs on, come in very reliably on turn 2 with a higher degree of accuracy than with a drop pod. My list for the league had 2 tri melta assault marine squads and a command squad with jump packs and 3 melta guns. Needless to say, my opponents never got to fire their knights more than once per game.

Remember half your pods come in first turn, so there is a reason to go for it. You get them in sooner and causing damage sooner and you get a reliable number in first turn as well.

For podding vs deepstrike jump packs, if you pod you don't have to decide between shooting and running to minimize blasts.

 Zefig wrote:
For podding vs deepstrike jump packs, if you pod you don't have to decide between shooting and running to minimize blasts.

This is the main reason I can see for podding.

I think I prefer jump beta strike more. The codex is one of the weakest, so if I play a full 6 or 7 round game, I can expect a tabling against a competitive higher tier codex list. But if I don't really put much on for him to kill early, and effectively shorten the game by at least a turn, I could have the game end while guys are still valiantly holding objectives and the like.

The part I don't like is that you start off on the back foot in maelstrom while doing it. Unless you got some easy stuff like "hold the line" or "hold one of your objectives" with your hiding scouts, you're probably behind already.

There is definitely a shout for pack's but i think pod's win out especially if you have more than 1 or 2 in turn 1. I have just got my 5th and I'm going to see how that goes.

I'm going to use my 2 furioso's. Another 2 will have a tri-melta ASM and a 10 man flamer tac squad.

I'm still stuck for what to put in the 5th one. It's probably going to be between my ,up to 10, sternguard a tri-melta command squad a furioso libby or another, up to 10, tac squad for a different role to the flamers, maybe plasma if i didn't already have 5 in a AC razorback. Does any one have any suggestion's/other option's about what to put in the 5th?

Cheer's.

K

niv-mizzet wrote:
The codex is one of the weakest.

Pessimism invades Baal, once again. We were 2nd in the bottom not long ago, we aren't any worse now.

 valkyriePROfail wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
The codex is one of the weakest.

Pessimism invades Baal, once again. We were 2nd in the bottom not long ago, we aren't any worse now.

And arguably didn't go up any slots.

Martel732 wrote:

 valkyriePROfail wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
The codex is one of the weakest.

Pessimism invades Baal, once again. We were 2nd in the bottom not long ago, we aren't any worse now.

And arguably didn't go up any slots.

And what makes you think BA is one of the worst codices, LVO win rate?
Codex was rebalanced in terms of point cost and is arguably much better now. Being a fairly new codex yet, people is still testing what works better and what not. At least give it some more time to be judged.

No death stars. No centurions. No biker troops. No stormtalons. No TFCs. No Smashbane. No counter-death stars. Costs are better, yes, but selection sucks.

 valkyriePROfail wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 valkyriePROfail wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
The codex is one of the weakest.

Pessimism invades Baal, once again. We were 2nd in the bottom not long ago, we aren't any worse now.

And arguably didn't go up any slots.

And what makes you think BA is one of the worst codices, LVO win rate?
Codex was rebalanced in terms of point cost and is
arguably much better now. Being a fairly new codex yet, people is still testing what works better and what not. At least give it some more time to be judged.

This is pretty on point. Give it time. And with 11 people playing it out of 221 its not a big enough sample size.