To be fair, I don't think anyone expected that to last. The good news is that everything else is the same and we still have crazy broken combos with our IG allies.
So just wondering, but what book are the Red Hunters or whatever in? Do they have any Red Hunter specific units? Or does it just get us SM? (Theoretically, pending C:Inq)
pretre wrote: So just wondering, but what book are the Red Hunters or whatever in? Do they have any Red Hunter specific units? Or does it just get us SM? (Theoretically, pending C:Inq)
pretre wrote: So just wondering, but what book are the Red Hunters or whatever in? Do they have any Red Hunter specific units? Or does it just get us SM? (Theoretically, pending C:Inq)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just looked, they have no rules there but are a part of the campaign.
There are some Red Hunters entries in IA:7, but I'm not sure if there's any rules (it's enough they get a contents entry, but I couldn't spot any at a glance). Otherwise yes, it's just Codex: Marines with the Red Hunters Chapter Tactics.
I am just hoping there will be an update that makes Eviscerators cheaper. What were they thinking?
Has anyone have any good experience with a Canoness? I would like to use her to give my Sister blob some teeth, but I all I see that she can contribute is LD for war hymns and Faith. Making her decent it combat seems really expensive.
Just popped into SoV P3 and didn't see any special units for them, just fluff. So it looks like codex marines with special Chapter Tactics (the special rule once per game thing).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AdeptSister wrote: I am just hoping there will be an update that makes Eviscerators cheaper. What were they thinking?
You'll be waiting a long time.
Has anyone have any good experience with a Canoness? I would like to use her to give my Sister blob some teeth, but I all I see that she can contribute is LD for war hymns and Faith. Making her decent it combat seems really expensive.
Canoness adds nothing to a blob. Her act is lame compared to priests and she can only really get an eviscerator and tank wounds. Better to take Uriah and stick with him.
Has anyone tried running a fortress of redemption with +4 HB, loaded up with a full squad of Retributers? That would be one squad firing 8 HBs. It would also include some AA and one big blast, which would supplement the army nicely.
FootlooseJarl wrote: Has anyone tried running a fortress of redemption with +4 HB, loaded up with a full squad of Retributers? That would be one squad firing 8 HBs. It would also include some AA and one big blast, which would supplement the army nicely.
I've only tried it with Monkies on vassal.
But it was hailarious. 4 AV14 bunkers, and more lascannons than is probably healthy.
Once things got close enough to assault, even with overwatching heavy flamers it got somewhat hairy, as grenades and such do scary damage to occupants of buildings.
Shandara wrote: I really like the new FW flyers (although the older-style like the Marauder bomber and such have their charm too).
They were also very well cast and barely needed any warping fixed. I changed a Voss to an Avenger too, which I think fits very well:
Sweet jimminy christmas! What is that, where can I get one, and what all do I need to do to convert it?
Right Here. Looks like it just has some Sisters Icons, a pair of Gatling Cannons and some Autocannons on it.
It's a pretty kit, and it's £10 cheaper than the standard Lightning (and the same once converted). I'd love one myself, but as usual - almost £100 on one unit makes me a little twitchy.
AdeptSister wrote: I am just hoping there will be an update that makes Eviscerators cheaper. What were they thinking?
Has anyone have any good experience with a Canoness? I would like to use her to give my Sister blob some teeth, but I all I see that she can contribute is LD for war hymns and Faith. Making her decent it combat seems really expensive.
So far I have been running her up fromt with a Dominon Sqaud, Combi-Melta and Eternal Warrior Relic - she has done alright.........
Disapointed no Valeria in the Inq Codex given its mostly copy and paste :(
dracpanzer wrote: Can always take both Two scouting Priest/BSS blobs with inq's AND three squads of Dominions... Need to sell off all my other armies....
You can only take the Liber once.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Acolytes make great redemptionist squads now.
48 Points for 12 Scoring models with Coteaz is pretty entertaining.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 69 Points for 12 Fearless models. (11 Acolytes and a Ministorum Priest) Very fluffy.
Use to put 16 Sisters in a SM Crusader Land Raider back in 3rd Ed using the Witch Hunter allies rules. Being able to do something similar using the new Inquisitor codex would be cool.
I'm considering genestealers with just one set of arms and green stuff fur as a starting point. Add some tech bits to the carapice and will hopefully be close.
Starting with my 20 girl blob and Exorcists castled behind an ADL/quad gun, Taking Coteaz and putting him in with a unit of Retributors (Yes I know they're not an Exorcist) on turn 1-2 to get the reroll on seize, and actually make "I've been expecting you" worthwhile on potential outflankers and drop pods? I can then have him join the 20 girl blob and take objectives for divination rolls.
Concidering I am likely going to take a second barebones inquisitor with an orbital strike relay and servo-skull, I should be able to force the opponent to bring in his outflanking units either far enough back to negate their usefulness somewhat or on the side where Coteaz and 3 multi-meltas are waiting to take a free shot.
I'm considering genestealers with just one set of arms and green stuff fur as a starting point. Add some tech bits to the carapice and will hopefully be close.
I want lots of monkeys
D
I used Skaven torsos and legs, some skaven some dwarf arms, third party werewolf heads which I modifed, and a whole lot of random bits for their funky guns
jeffersonian000 wrote: Use to put 16 Sisters in a SM Crusader Land Raider back in 3rd Ed using the Witch Hunter allies rules. Being able to do something similar using the new Inquisitor codex would be cool.
SJ
Sadly no - can't go in other detachments vehicles - even with Battle Brothers
pretre wrote: Just popped into SoV P3 and didn't see any special units for them, just fluff. So it looks like codex marines with special Chapter Tactics (the special rule once per game thing).
So, theoretically, could one download the PDF with thier Chapter Tactics, get the Marine codex and just run Red Hunters like that? I mean, since there's no rules in the actual IA book, it doesn't seem like a requirement. Or would people see that as a bit cheeky?
pretre wrote: Just popped into SoV P3 and didn't see any special units for them, just fluff. So it looks like codex marines with special Chapter Tactics (the special rule once per game thing).
So, theoretically, could one download the PDF with thier Chapter Tactics, get the Marine codex and just run Red Hunters like that? I mean, since there's no rules in the actual IA book, it doesn't seem like a requirement. Or would people see that as a bit cheeky?
Have a 1750 tournament coming up soon and am torturing myself on lists. Inq or not?
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests (Litanies/Power Maul, Power Maul x2)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo (Dozer)
Dominions (6) with 2 Melta / Flamer x2, Simulacrum in Rhino (Laud)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors (6) with 4 HB, Simulacrum
Bastion with Quad
Coteaz
Henchman (9 Acolytes)
Henchman (11 Acolytes, 1 Ministorum Priest)
Henchman (11 Acolytes, 1 Ministorum Priest)
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests (Litanies/Power Maul, Power Maul, Power Maul)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo (Laud Hailer)
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
Where's Coteaz going? If he's in the blob, he gives them the 12" Interceptor thing. I'd also add a Xenos Inq for Rad and Psychotroke Grenades and Scout for the blob.
What's the purpose of the Henchmen Squads? Are they in transports, or are they backfield objective holders? If you have Chimeras with HB turrets, you can give them Psybolt ammo, which combines with the Hull HB for 6 S6 AP4 shots per Chimera, so you add to your vehicle count.
I'd probably go with more of the second list, but put Coteaz and a Xenos Inquisitor somewhere in there, so you can get those buffs on the Jacobus blob, as well as potentially TLing an Exorcist.
Thariinye wrote: Where's Coteaz going? If he's in the blob, he gives them the 12" Interceptor thing. I'd also add a Xenos Inq for Rad and Psychotroke Grenades and Scout for the blob.
What's the purpose of the Henchmen Squads? Are they in transports, or are they backfield objective holders? If you have Chimeras with HB turrets, you can give them Psybolt ammo, which combines with the Hull HB for 6 S6 AP4 shots per Chimera, so you add to your vehicle count.
I'd probably go with more of the second list, but put Coteaz and a Xenos Inquisitor somewhere in there, so you can get those buffs on the Jacobus blob, as well as potentially TLing an Exorcist.
Coteaz is one of three places depending on rolls. Blob if he pulls good offensive or the Invul. Tower if he gets ignore cover with the Henchmen on the Quad. Retributors if nothing else. If Coteaz gets the invul power than Uriah goes with the Rets in the tower.
Henchmen are backfield objective holders (fearless). Points just aren't present for transports and them (keep in mind those 12 man squads are 69 points each). Xenos is something I thought about but I already have waaaay too many points sunk into that blob. Is it really worth it to sink more?
Have you considered dropping the Simulacrum on the blob and adding a cheapish inquisitor with prescience or hammer hand on the blob? That many strength 4+ attacks is scary.
A list I really want to try (I have no idea how it plays) has the blob, 5 priests, Uriah, Celestine, Coteaz, and some form of an Inquisitor.
Simulacrum is only 10 points though. Hammerhand inquisitor is 40 or so. Again though, that's a lot of points in one squad that is already scary as hell in hand to hand.
Ya but two inquisitors gives the option of keeping stock powers on Coteaz as well as the ability to get prescience (assuming you keep stock powers). Dark Excommunication is great against the screamer council and if you don't get it rerolling 4+ has a much better chance to wound than rerolling 5+. He is only a few less points than your 12 man henchman unit.
Rynner wrote: Ya but two inquisitors gives the option of keeping stock powers on Coteaz as well as the ability to get prescience (assuming you keep stock powers). Dark Excommunication is great against the screamer council and if you don't get it rerolling 4+ has a much better chance to wound than rerolling 5+. He is only a few less points than your 12 man henchman unit.
Right, but that's even less scoring. I'm not saying an Inquisitor isn't good. It is. But is it worth losing one of my only scoring units? I don't need prescience that bad since I get PE when I need it and nothing in my army really NEEDS rerolls to hit. Whereas, I need scoring to win and don't have a lot of it to start with.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I think if i was going to get another Inquisitor, I'd get a Xenos with Rad, Liber and Psychobroke. That's 70. I could fit that with just dropping one Henchman squad.
Hereticus with Psyker, Liber is 70. Is prescience worth Rad and Psychotrope?
Ya but you could also drop 1/2 henchman from the bigger squads to take a squad of 3 and keep them in reserve. One of the relics will allow blob to scout giving you more board control the first turn.
Also, in your second list have you considering making arming one of your doms with 4x flamers, a combi flamer, and maybe a priest with the intention of outflanking?
Rynner wrote: Ya but you could also drop 1/2 henchman from the bigger squads to take a squad of 3 and keep them in reserve. One of the relics will allow blob to scout giving you more board control the first turn.
Also, in your second list have you considering making arming one of your doms with 4x flamers, a combi flamer, and maybe a priest with the intention of outflanking?
I'm not a fan of the 3 man squads. They are just too fragile and gamey. I do like the Liber relic. That's what I was talking about with the Liber (scout) relic. I'm
I am not a fan of flamer doms it just doesn't fit. I have been considering 2xMelta, 2xflamer in a rhino with Simulacrum and Laud Hailer. It is the same points as the TL-MM immo squad.
Examples:
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests (Litanies/Power Maul, Power Maul x2)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo (Dozer)
Dominions (6) with 2 Melta / Flamer x2 in Rhino (Laud)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors (6) with 4 HB, Simulacrum
Bastion with Quad
Coteaz
Xenos with Rad, Psychotrope, Liber Heresius
Henchman (9 Acolytes)
Henchman (11 Acolytes, 1 Ministorum Priest)
and
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests (Litanies/Power Maul, Power Maul, Power Maul)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
Dominions (6) with 2 Melta / Flamer x2 in Rhino (Laud)
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
(7 extra points to use here)
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests (Litanies/Power Maul, Power Maul, Power Maul)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino
Dominions (6) with 2 Melta / Flamer x2 in Rhino (Laud)
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
I'm doing this back-of-the-envelope but I think you can drop a Dom squad and add Immos for all your Battle Sisters and then get Coteaz for the Blob and 3 min sized Acolyte squads to Grot your back field objectives.
They'll be a liability in kill point missions but for 36 points you get a lot of freedom to commit your now useful BSSs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, you might have to kick the power mauls off of your Priests. I guess, you can decide whether you'd rather have the mauls or the Immos for your BSSs.
I'm kinda thinking I want to keep the Rhinos over immos for the BSS. They are so fragile at 5 and can still be useful with rhinos whereas with Immos they have to drop out to do anything.
I can drop a Dom to get Coteaz and a 12 Man Henchman though. Something like this:
Uriah Jacobus 4 Priests (Litanies/Power Maul, Power Maul, Power Maul) BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino Dominions (6) with 2 Melta / Flamer x2 in Rhino (Laud) Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo Exorcist Exorcist Exorcist Coteaz Henchman (11 Acolytes, 1 Ministorum Priest)
There's a sim on the 6 doms and I kinda like this list. I could still drop the Hench squad for a Xenos with Grenades and Liber or Hereticus with Liber or Psychic, too.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Doesn't look bad either.
Failing any revelations, I will probably go with this. Thoughts?
As a small off-topic aside from the talk of psykers, the codex feedback I was working on was mailed today along with 3 Cadbury Dairy Milk bars as compensation for asking Kelly to read 20 pages of stuff (sad part is I could have written even more about pretty much everything).
I don't know if I'll get a reply back, but if I do I'll share it (even if it's a C&D ).
I just thought those who were in the know might want to know about it finally getting in the mail (he should have it in the next week or so).
The warbands are not scoring unless C:I is selected as your primary army right?
Pretre, what are the acolytes there for in your list? Im guessing they are on bodyguard duty?
Doesn't look like I'll be taking any Inquisitor allies. Though a tough as nails female inquisitor would be an awesome ally and could make a cool story with her butting heads with the cannoness.
Still need a third Exorcist and some converted priestesses. Maybe if I get some good bits and some equally good ideas I'll convert an inquisitor and henchwomen for allies, but that's a long term thing.
OutlawBandit wrote: The warbands are not scoring unless C:I is selected as your primary army right?
Pretre, what are the acolytes there for in your list? Im guessing they are on bodyguard duty?
If you bring Coteaz, the warbands are scoring even if they're not in your primary detachment. Coteaz is pretty great.
MWHistorian wrote: Doesn't look like I'll be taking any Inquisitor allies. Though a tough as nails female inquisitor would be an awesome ally and could make a cool story with her butting heads with the cannoness.
Still need a third Exorcist and some converted priestesses. Maybe if I get some good bits and some equally good ideas I'll convert an inquisitor and henchwomen for allies, but that's a long term thing.
Even if you don't want to invest a lot of points into an inquisitorial force, in my opinion 110 points for two psyker inquisitors to twin-link your exorcists is a worthwhile investment.
OutlawBandit wrote: The warbands are not scoring unless C:I is selected as your primary army right?
Pretre, what are the acolytes there for in your list? Im guessing they are on bodyguard duty?
They are scoring grots since Coteaz is in the list. I reserve them or hide them behind terrain and they are 12 scoring fearless bodies.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Coteaz is a no brainer at 100 points for what he gives. You can add another inquisitor for cheap if you have the points for either divination or grenade caddy. Liber is pretty awesome too.
The wargear entry for inquisitor henchman death cult assassins says "two power weapons," as opposed to "two power swords" in C: AS.
In other words, inquisitorial DCAs and can still rock the sword/mace + Axe setup. 5 DCAs, 5 crusaders, two priests and a hammerhand inquisitor is terrifying. That's a mountain of high strength power weapon attacks, rerolling to wound. Your opponent attacks agains WS5 and re-rollable 3++ saves. Then when you win the assault you sweep at initiative 6. Even without 'nades this unit can smash MCs and vehicles. I love it.
The wargear entry for inquisitor henchman death cult assassins says "two power weapons," as opposed to "two power swords" in C: AS.
In other words, inquisitorial DCAs and can still rock the sword/mace + Axe setup. 5 DCAs, 5 crusaders, two priests and a hammerhand inquisitor is terrifying. That's a mountain of high strength power weapon attacks, rerolling to wound. Your opponent attacks agains WS5 and re-rollable 3++ saves. Then when you win the assault you sweep at initiative 6. Even without 'nades this unit can smash MCs and vehicles. I love it.
I don't expect that to last past the next time GW actually puts out FAQs and smacks it with a nerf-bat in C:GK and subsequently C:=][=.
Just a quick question, but I thought I read somewhere that in the new =I= supplement you can take SoB allied with another army, and still use the Inquisitor supplement as another allies?
The wargear entry for inquisitor henchman death cult assassins says "two power weapons," as opposed to "two power swords" in C: AS.
In other words, inquisitorial DCAs and can still rock the sword/mace + Axe setup. 5 DCAs, 5 crusaders, two priests and a hammerhand inquisitor is terrifying. That's a mountain of high strength power weapon attacks, rerolling to wound. Your opponent attacks agains WS5 and re-rollable 3++ saves. Then when you win the assault you sweep at initiative 6. Even without 'nades this unit can smash MCs and vehicles. I love it.
I don't expect that to last past the next time GW actually puts out FAQs and smacks it with a nerf-bat in C:GK and subsequently C:=][=.
It would have to be an erratta though wouldn't it. And if it is "wrong" in the Inquisition codex than it has been "wrong" all this time in the GK codex too. You know since one is just a cut and paste of the other. lol.
toocool61 wrote: Just a quick question, but I thought I read somewhere that in the new =I= supplement you can take SoB allied with another army, and still use the Inquisitor supplement as another allies?
Yup, this is true.
With the release of Codex: Inquisition, the Force Org Chart becomes this now:
Are you running the henchmen with laspistols and ccw or boltguns?
Personally I would go more aggressive with 12 man bolters/plasma henchmen and attach an AS priest instead. If they are in close support of the sisters blob. The barebones priests can always detach and join the blob if you're planning a charge and the extra hymms means the priests in the blob with the power mauls can use their hymms to smash.
Sisters lack access to plasma and henchmen can squeeze in 18 potential shots for 90 points. It's on BS3 models with a 5+ armor save which shows a total disregard for the safety of your own men, but they are religious fanatics so who gives a frak.
schadenfreude wrote: Are you running the henchmen with laspistols and ccw or boltguns?
Personally I would go more aggressive with 12 man bolters/plasma henchmen and attach an AS priest instead. If they are in close support of the sisters blob. The barebones priests can always detach and join the blob if you're planning a charge and the extra hymms means the priests in the blob with the power mauls can use their hymms to smash.
Sisters lack access to plasma and henchmen can squeeze in 18 potential shots for 90 points. It's on BS3 models with a 5+ armor save which shows a total disregard for the safety of your own men, but they are religious fanatics so who gives a frak.
Barebones Laspistol/CCW. The models are redemptionists. If I go plasma/bolters, that's a lot of points (90 is almost a whole sister squad). I can see getting an AS priest for the blob, that's a good idea. 90 extra points turns them from a grot mob to a replacement for at least one other unit in the army. 3 Points under,btw.
schadenfreude wrote: Also lots of conversion work on all metal models, but worth it IMO.
Well, I would not use Redemptionists if I was going to go with 9 plasma. I'd use some of my other models and convert it out.
Also, that's illegal as it is 3 special weapons per henchman squad.
Either way, I don't think that that many plasma is worth it. Maybe 2 or 3 mixed into the squad to give them some punch.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I could drop 2 power mauls for 3 plasma on that squad, but am unsure if that's a good swap. Hmm... The one thing not really lacking in my list is AP2/1. I have plenty already. Is it really worth putting it on a fragile grot squad?
Also realising that the Simulacrum on the Blob isn't really that useful...
These are two valid ones along those lines:
Plasma
Spoiler:
Uriah Jacobus 4 Priests (Litanies/Power Maul, Power Maul, Power Maul)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino BSS (20) with HF/Flamer BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino Dominions (6) with 2 Melta / Flamer x2, Simulacrum in Rhino (Laud) Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo Exorcist Exorcist Exorcist Coteaz Henchman (12 Acolytes, 3 Plasma)
Extra Inq
Spoiler:
Uriah Jacobus 4 Priests (Litanies, Power Maul)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino BSS (20) with HF/Flamer BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo Exorcist Exorcist Exorcist Coteaz Hereticus with Liber and Psyker Henchman (11 Acolytes)
The wargear entry for inquisitor henchman death cult assassins says "two power weapons," as opposed to "two power swords" in C: AS.
In other words, inquisitorial DCAs and can still rock the sword/mace + Axe setup. 5 DCAs, 5 crusaders, two priests and a hammerhand inquisitor is terrifying. That's a mountain of high strength power weapon attacks, rerolling to wound. Your opponent attacks agains WS5 and re-rollable 3++ saves. Then when you win the assault you sweep at initiative 6. Even without 'nades this unit can smash MCs and vehicles. I love it.
I don't expect that to last past the next time GW actually puts out FAQs and smacks it with a nerf-bat in C:GK and subsequently C:=][=.
Best abuse it as hard as we can while there's still hime, huh? But yeah, I agree, this is a slip up. They didn't intentionally make the inquisition version better. It's obviously just a copy/paste. I'm sure that's why C:I has arcos at 15 points per still. It's more ammo for my "games workshop has no peer review process" theory though.
pretre wrote: Bonus points if you do 4 DCA, 4 Crusaders and 4 Priests. Then put Celestine within 12" so they can use her leadership for the Hymns of War.
Why bother with Celestine? If you have a hammer hand inquisitor attached you've already got Ld 10 at less than half the points.
Had another game wtih eldar tonight. I lost, but it was very very close. I tried the thirty dominion setup I mentioned earlier. They didn't wreck as much as I wanted, but they did pin the eldar in their deployment zone and keep them there for four turns. Also, playtesting indicates that Coteaz is just awesome. Inquisitors are awesome. Divination is awesome. Plasma Cannon servitors are awesome. 12 point scoring units are awesome. It's pretty obvious that GW didn't put a lot of effort into the Inquisition 'dex, but even so it really helps sisters out a lot.
OutlawBandit wrote: The warbands are not scoring unless C:I is selected as your primary army right?
Pretre, what are the acolytes there for in your list? Im guessing they are on bodyguard duty?
If you bring Coteaz, the warbands are scoring even if they're not in your primary detachment. Coteaz is pretty great.
MWHistorian wrote: Doesn't look like I'll be taking any Inquisitor allies. Though a tough as nails female inquisitor would be an awesome ally and could make a cool story with her butting heads with the cannoness.
Still need a third Exorcist and some converted priestesses. Maybe if I get some good bits and some equally good ideas I'll convert an inquisitor and henchwomen for allies, but that's a long term thing.
Even if you don't want to invest a lot of points into an inquisitorial force, in my opinion 110 points for two psyker inquisitors to twin-link your exorcists is a worthwhile investment.
Wait...did you just say "Twin-link your exorcists?"
I appreciate the link, but I don't think anything was really solved in that thread. In the initial discussions after the new rules came out it was pretty quickly agreed upon that you did use the highest Ld in the unit.
I'm not saying that's absolutely the case, but I'm a little surprised that I missed the conversation where that call got reversed.
Hmm. I only found 2 Plasma dudes to use as well. I'm not sure I like just having one power maul for the priests, but that list isn't bad. Plus I have a badass hereticus psyker model all painted up.
Anyone else find it funny that when only AS could use priests the view was War Hymns must use the priests LD but as soon as everyone else can use them it's being argued either way.
So Inq allies. I'm looking at adding them to my higher end games, maybe even squeeze them into 1500 list. Thinking of fielding the crap I used to go up against when there were tonnes of GK players around. Inquisitor (likely Coteaz) Servitors with plasma, a monkey or two and a bunch of acolytes for extra wounds. Maybe even put the quad gun back into my list, that plus the Avenger should handle AA fairly well. I also love the idea of the Inquisitor with Psyocculum for some psyker killing.
War hymns is not a psychic power, nor is it a unit leadership check it follows the war hymns special rule.
War Hymns: A model with this special rule can take a Leadership test at the beginning of each Fight sub-phase in which he is locked in combat.
RAW = The test is made on the model with the special rule at his Ld7. That's why it's 25 points for the model, there's a good chance to fail.
The only way around this is either Litanies of Faith wargear to autopass hymns or taking Saint Celestine whose rules both explicitly state that they modify [b]models with the War Hymns special rule[/b]. If any squad could use their unit leadership, then the rules modifying War Hymns specifically would be redundant.
dadakkaest wrote: War hymns is not a psychic power, nor is it a unit leadership check it follows the war hymns special rule.
War Hymns: A model with this special rule can take a Leadership test at the beginning of each Fight sub-phase in which he is locked in combat.
RAW = The test is made on the model with the special rule at his Ld7. That's why it's 25 points for the model, there's a good chance to fail.
The only way around this is either Litanies of Faith wargear to autopass hymns or taking Saint Celestine whose rules both explicitly state that they modify [b]models with the War Hymns special rule[/b]. If any squad could use their unit leadership, then the rules modifying War Hymns specifically would be redundant.
No, St. Celestine's Beacon of faith rule allows her to modify only AoF and WH tests because that's what it modifies. GW didn't want her to have a simple 12" Ld10 bubble so they made the rule only apply to two things, mainly because those both rely (fluff-wise) on faith, and the rule is called Beacon of Faith. Huzzah.
Anyway, it's still a leadership test. Not some super-special war hymn test. A Leadership test. For which the rules are quite clearly stated on page seven.
The rule book says LEADERSHIP TESTS At certain times, a model or unit might be called upon to take a Leadership test. This usually represents them drawing upon their courage to face disheartening circumstances. To take a Leadership test, use the following procedure: . Roll 2D6and compare the result to the models leadership. . If the result is equal to or less than the model's Leadership value, then the test has been passed. . If the result is greater than the models Leadership value, a suitably dire consequence will occur, as detailed in the rule that called for the test. .If a unit includes models with different Leadership values, always use the highest Leadership from among them. MODELS WITH MULTIPLE PROFILES Where a model has more than one Leadership value, a Leadership test is always taken against the highest of the values.
Anyway, the YMDC thread cleared it up nicely. Just because the Priest is the one taking the test doesn't mean he is suddenly exempt from the rules.
Yay, here come the powergamers to give all their space marine squads Celestine's warlord trait.
The special rule says what it says. The model takes the test. Not the unit. Page seven of the rulebook is talking about Morale tests. War hymns is not a morale test it's a special rule.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just think everyone who basically plays Sisters, or the new Inqusition book needs to write in to GW on which the Priest is supposed to use: the highest or his own. That's about the only way it'll get solved properly I think.
It's not really a new thing either. It's just a consequence of GW calling it a Leadership test, which means it follows the rules on page 7, which are very very clear on how they work.
ClockworkZion wrote: As a small off-topic aside from the talk of psykers, the codex feedback I was working on was mailed today along with 3 Cadbury Dairy Milk bars as compensation for asking Kelly to read 20 pages of stuff (sad part is I could have written even more about pretty much everything).
I don't know if I'll get a reply back, but if I do I'll share it (even if it's a C&D ).
Awesome !
Didn't saw the final version of it, though.
Mkay so, I have thought about the use of Celestians and would be very interested in useful (meaning actually useful and not filled with generalities) discussion or analysis on them. i have my own ideas, but I have a blog for that. Just collecting intel at this stage from those who actually play them and not from the peanut gallery.
Strong points: STR 4 on the charge (twice if alive enough to use the Simulacrum). 2 Special weapons. Nice LD on the unit, not just the Superior. 2 attacks base. Power armor and bolters as well as pistols. Not terrible. Feels like their usefulness hinges on who you attach. Celestine mayhap? Do priests make this a value buy?
Synergies abound for this unit. I want to find a suitable place for it in my plans. Battle Conclaves are so clearly better at melee besides the fact that Celestians shoot AND fight. Average wounds before a charge and after still slides in the favor of the Battle conclave. This unit needed countercharge as part of its Act of Faith I think.
I can find negativity and defeatism anywhere I go. I'm looking for a good solid role for these ladies. How would you build a force with at least two units of them? Even three. It's an interesting exercise. "I wouldn't" probably isn't a productive answer, but someones going to say it. I just know it... And thats fine. But useful ideas are welcome also.
The whole War hymn this isn't a debate. I messaged the GW digital guys via facebook and they gave me their reply. It's not a psychic test so it gets tested on from the highest leadership of the squad, not model.
Official reply.
Either way, what models should I use for a redemptionist horde?
Celtic Strike wrote: The whole War hymn this isn't a debate. I messaged the GW digital guys via facebook and they gave me their reply. It's not a psychic test so it gets tested on from the highest leadership of the squad, not model.
Official reply.
Either way, what models should I use for a redemptionist horde?
Celtic Strike wrote: The whole War hymn this isn't a debate. I messaged the GW digital guys via facebook and they gave me their reply. It's not a psychic test so it gets tested on from the highest leadership of the squad, not model.
Jancoran wrote: I can find negativity and defeatism anywhere I go. I'm looking for a good solid role for these ladies. How would you build a force with at least two units of them? Even three. It's an interesting exercise. "I wouldn't" probably isn't a productive answer, but someones going to say it. I just know it... And thats fine. But useful ideas are welcome also.
THe problem is that they are outclassed points-wise by almost every other choice and have no role that they do well enough to pay those points.
Okay, postive use? Immo spam at high points where you don't get a second FOC. That's where I would see them.
Celtic Strike wrote: The whole War hymn this isn't a debate. I messaged the GW digital guys via facebook and they gave me their reply. It's not a psychic test so it gets tested on from the highest leadership of the squad, not model.
Official reply.
Pics or it didn't happen!
Even if you have pics, it is about as official as a red shirt saying it.
One thing no one has mentioned is that Acts of Faith cannot be used while an Inquisitor is attached to the unit. That is a big deal with a blob, as PE in shooting or combat is a pretty nice feature. Has this affected anyone's builds in any way?
Also, I am wondering if Inquisitor + Prescience is really worth the points, even on a 20-model blob. Don't get me wrong, I am doing the same thing in my 2000 point list, but I have to wonder if it truly is worth the points cost to have TL bolters on a blob (even an IG blob).
davidgr33n wrote: One thing no one has mentioned is that Acts of Faith cannot be used while an Inquisitor is attached to the unit. That is a big deal with a blob, as PE in shooting or combat is a pretty nice feature. Has this affected anyone's builds in any way?
Also, I am wondering if Inquisitor + Prescience is really worth the points, even on a 20-model blob. Don't get me wrong, I am doing the same thing in my 2000 point list, but I have to wonder if it truly is worth the points cost to have TL bolters on a blob (even an IG blob).
I'm not sure if it really affects it that much. A Malleus Inq with Terminator Armor and a Psycannon not only adds that extra punch to the squad, but having twin-linked bolters is better than PE, and you can do it every turn. Combine that with a War Priest using the Emperor Protects and you have a very deadly unit that simply trolls its way up the field, AoF or not.
Yeah, it isn't as big a deal for the BSS squads as it would be for Doms or Rets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Celtic Strike wrote: The whole War hymn this isn't a debate. I messaged the GW digital guys via facebook and they gave me their reply. It's not a psychic test so it gets tested on from the highest leadership of the squad, not model.
Official reply.
Either way, what models should I use for a redemptionist horde?
Flagellants and chaos marauders? Or try to pick up the old redemptionists models. I have about 60
davidgr33n wrote: One thing no one has mentioned is that Acts of Faith cannot be used while an Inquisitor is attached to the unit. That is a big deal with a blob, as PE in shooting or combat is a pretty nice feature. Has this affected anyone's builds in any way?
Also, I am wondering if Inquisitor + Prescience is really worth the points, even on a 20-model blob. Don't get me wrong, I am doing the same thing in my 2000 point list, but I have to wonder if it truly is worth the points cost to have TL bolters on a blob (even an IG blob).
I'm not sure if it really affects it that much. A Malleus Inq with Terminator Armor and a Psycannon not only adds that extra punch to the squad, but having twin-linked bolters is better than PE, and you can do it every turn. Combine that with a War Priest using the Emperor Protects and you have a very deadly unit that simply trolls its way up the field, AoF or not.
PE does give re-rolls to wounds in addition to failed hits, but obviously the ability to TL shots EVERY turn is a much stronger ability. For regular BSS squads you aren't losing much, but as pretre stated, on Rets and Doms it takes away the one strong utility those AoF bring us.
Unfortunately it also takes away Uriah's ability to give his unit an additional AoF if the Inquisitor is also in his unit.
Looking at Celestine's AoF, I would assume that since she "dies" and then uses her AoF an Inquisitor won't affect it? I certainly hope not as I use her as my Warlord in most lists.
davidgr33n wrote: One thing no one has mentioned is that Acts of Faith cannot be used while an Inquisitor is attached to the unit. That is a big deal with a blob, as PE in shooting or combat is a pretty nice feature. Has this affected anyone's builds in any way?
Also, I am wondering if Inquisitor + Prescience is really worth the points, even on a 20-model blob. Don't get me wrong, I am doing the same thing in my 2000 point list, but I have to wonder if it truly is worth the points cost to have TL bolters on a blob (even an IG blob).
I'm not sure if it really affects it that much. A Malleus Inq with Terminator Armor and a Psycannon not only adds that extra punch to the squad, but having twin-linked bolters is better than PE, and you can do it every turn. Combine that with a War Priest using the Emperor Protects and you have a very deadly unit that simply trolls its way up the field, AoF or not.
PE does give re-rolls to wounds in addition to failed hits, but obviously the ability to TL shots EVERY turn is a much stronger ability. For regular BSS squads you aren't losing much, but as pretre stated, on Rets and Doms it takes away the one strong utility those AoF bring us.
Unfortunately it also takes away Uriah's ability to give his unit an additional AoF if the Inquisitor is also in his unit.
Looking at Celestine's AoF, I would assume that since she "dies" and then uses her AoF an Inquisitor won't affect it? I certainly hope not as I use her as my Warlord in most lists.
Yeah, after I posted that I realized the many errors in that post. War hymns don't work outside of the assault phase, for one...
As for celestine, I'm not sure. It is an act of faith, and since the rule says you can only use it if the squad is only entirely comprised of models with the rule, I wouldn't push it.
Celtic Strike wrote: The whole War hymn this isn't a debate. I messaged the GW digital guys via facebook and they gave me their reply. It's not a psychic test so it gets tested on from the highest leadership of the squad, not model.
Official reply.
YMDC Tenets wrote:
2. The only official sources of information are the current rulebooks and the Games Workshop FAQs. Emails from Games Workshop are easily spoofed and are notorious for being inconsistent and so should not be relied on.
davidgr33n wrote: One thing no one has mentioned is that Acts of Faith cannot be used while an Inquisitor is attached to the unit. That is a big deal with a blob, as PE in shooting or combat is a pretty nice feature. Has this affected anyone's builds in any way?
Also, I am wondering if Inquisitor + Prescience is really worth the points, even on a 20-model blob. Don't get me wrong, I am doing the same thing in my 2000 point list, but I have to wonder if it truly is worth the points cost to have TL bolters on a blob (even an IG blob).
I wouldn't use an inquisitor with infantry. Not only can you not use your AoF if you join an inquisitor to an AS squad, you also can't use a transport. That may not matter for the blob, or I guess HB retributors, but for everyone else it's a pretty big deal. If you HAVE to use an inquisitor with your blob, you could always buy him his own retinue and march them behind the blob. Prescience has a 12" range, after all.
Prescience is great on Exorcists and squads that aren't going to use their AoF, or don't rely heavily on it. I could see it being good on a heavy/special weapon SCS. Maybe HB retributors if you've given up on rending and are just going to use them to wipe fire warriors.
What I did on my last game was bring Coteaz with a retinue of plasma cannon servitors and crusaders, plus a priest to make them fearless. I joined a canoness to them and placed them on top of an objective behind an ADL, with the canoness on the quad gun. I had Coteaz use prescience on my exorcist and the ignores cover power (perfect timing?) on his own squad, including the canoness. That fire base carried the army and damn near won the game for me.
I personally feel that the blob is a trap, and throwing more points into it is a waste. There are other more creative things we can do with inquisitors.
In other news, now that more than half the armies (including tau and eldar) have access to cheap servo-skull spam, my dominion + inquisitorial land raider Alpha Strike list just took a big kick in the balls. The emperor giveth and the emperor taketh away, I guess.
With the new inqusitorial warbands, one thing people might miss, is that you can get planes for a small tax of 12 points (3 henchman) each.
You can, ofc, load up the team a bit to get it do actually do stuff though.
Can't transport your AS girls, but can shoot down enemy planes decently (hellstrike missiles are likely to pen anything in the sky with the ordnance "roll twice take best" pen check), and if you load up the team, you can give them things AS lack like plasmas, or just drop a few power axe crusaders with priests to attract attention.
Also, the psyker squad gives you much needed blast weapons (and they are rather nasty in a psymera)
Something I noticed AS rhinos come with a Storm Bolter, so you could buy another, have a battle sister with a SB, a Superior with a SB and then have 8 shots while you come up the board. Not fantastic, but something I noticed.
BoomWolf wrote: With the new inqusitorial warbands, one thing people might miss, is that you can get planes for a small tax of 12 points (3 henchman) each.
You can, ofc, load up the team a bit to get it do actually do stuff though.
Can't transport your AS girls, but can shoot down enemy planes decently (hellstrike missiles are likely to pen anything in the sky with the ordnance "roll twice take best" pen check), and if you load up the team, you can give them things AS lack like plasmas, or just drop a few power axe crusaders with priests to attract attention.
Also, the psyker squad gives you much needed blast weapons (and they are rather nasty in a psymera)
Speaking if which, psymeras are looking really useful. 2HBs at S6 could be pretty nasty if spammed, quite pointy but the'd hopefully take the heat of th girl's transports while they move upfield. Stick plasma henchmen in they're and it's a nice little fire platform.
D
Automatically Appended Next Post:
evildrcheese wrote: Speaking if which, psymeras are looking really useful. 2HBs at S6 could be pretty nasty if spammed, quite pointy but the'd hopefully take the heat of the girl's transports while they move upfield. Stick plasma henchmen in there and it's a nice little fire platform.
BoomWolf wrote: With the new inqusitorial warbands, one thing people might miss, is that you can get planes for a small tax of 12 points (3 henchman) each.
You can, ofc, load up the team a bit to get it do actually do stuff though.
Can't transport your AS girls, but can shoot down enemy planes decently (hellstrike missiles are likely to pen anything in the sky with the ordnance "roll twice take best" pen check), and if you load up the team, you can give them things AS lack like plasmas, or just drop a few power axe crusaders with priests to attract attention.
Also, the psyker squad gives you much needed blast weapons (and they are rather nasty in a psymera)
The psyker squad can also kill itself.
Never said it was foolproof but the power potential compared to cost is quite useful when used on proper targets (just dont bother with the blast on lame targets)
Pretty sure you are wrong. I play GK and use henchmen psykers for fun. My buddies would have told me that these henchmen were buffed. The INTERNET would have mentioned it by now on all those blogs I read. But I think just a couple of uninformed people are spouting misinformation here by accident. Whether or not they have the brotherhood rule, if they still have their old GK-everyone-suffers-perils rule, that is more specifc and they all die when they suffer perils.
Pretty sure you are wrong. I play GK and use henchmen psykers for fun. My buddies would have told me that these henchmen were buffed. The INTERNET would have mentioned it by now on all those blogs I read. But I think just a couple of uninformed people are spouting misinformation here by accident. Whether or not they have the brotherhood rule, if they still have their old GK-everyone-suffers-perils rule, that is more specifc and they all die when they suffer perils.
Pretty sure you are wrong. I play GK and use henchmen psykers for fun. My buddies would have told me that these henchmen were buffed. The INTERNET would have mentioned it by now on all those blogs I read. But I think just a couple of uninformed people are spouting misinformation here by accident. Whether or not they have the brotherhood rule, if they still have their old GK-everyone-suffers-perils rule, that is more specifc and they all die when they suffer perils.
Pretty sure you are wrong. I read the book. The book told me that these henchmen were buffed. The INTERNET has already mentioned it by now. But I think one uninformed person doesn't believe it. They have the brotherhood rule, and don't still have their old GK-everyone-suffers-perils rule, so that is more specifc and they don't all die when they suffer perils.
Below is the sum total of their special rules:
LOL. Too late, I tracked down the info. Read the Psychic Barrage power. Yeah, that's what I thought. I'll take your silence as an accepted apology. If you prefer to write down your apology then that is cool too. Thanks.
Super Newb wrote: LOL. Too late, I tracked down the info. Read the Psychic Barrage power. Yeah, that's what I thought. I'll take your silence as an accepted apology. If you prefer to write down your apology then that is cool too. Thanks.
Doesn't help that the digital Inq dex is organized differently from the GK dex. I guess they wanted their cut and pasteing to be all fancy and confusing, lol.
Super Newb wrote: LOL. Too late, I tracked down the info. Read the Psychic Barrage power. Yeah, that's what I thought. I'll take your silence as an accepted apology. If you prefer to write down your apology then that is cool too. Thanks.
Aha, Well, I was partially correct. My bad.
Psychic Barrage, bah.
]
Brotherhood of Psykers still says that if the unit suffers a Perils only one model takes it. It sounds like we have a rules issue where one says everyone and the other says just one.
And Super Newb, take it down about 7 notches. No one likes someone who acts like a smug ass on the internet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I posted it up GWDE's Facebook. If they don't have an answer (like that they're fixing it) they'll pass it to the rules guys to do so.
ClockworkZion wrote: Brotherhood of Psykers still says that if the unit suffers a Perils only one model takes it. It sounds like we have a rules issue where one says everyone and the other says just one.
No, just no. Brotherhood of Psykers is a general big old rulebook rule. The Psychic Barrage rule is more specific. Specific beats general. This is crystal clear. As much as I want psyker henchmen to be better, they aren't.
And Super Newb, take it down about 7 notches. No one likes someone who acts like a smug ass on the internet.
Oh sweet irony. You're the only one who made a personal insult here! I hope your attempt at comedy was intentional. Otherwise, you need to take it down more notches than anyone else.
And Super Newb, take it down about 7 notches. No one likes someone who acts like a smug ass on the internet.
Oh sweet irony. You're the only one who made a personal insult here! I hope your attempt at comedy was intentional. Otherwise, you need to take it down more notches than anyone else.
He didn't say you were insulting people. He said you were being a smug ass. Which you were. Nothing personal, but it was true. To be fair, I wasn't much better, but don't deny it.
pretre wrote: Pretty sure you are wrong. I play GK and use henchmen psykers for fun. My buddies would have told me that these henchmen were buffed. The INTERNET would have mentioned it by now on all those blogs I read. But I think just a couple of uninformed people are spouting misinformation here by accident. Whether or not they have the brotherhood rule, if they still have their old GK-everyone-suffers-perils rule, that is more specifc and they all die when they suffer perils.
And Super Newb, take it down about 7 notches. No one likes someone who acts like a smug ass on the internet.
Oh sweet irony. You're the only one who made a personal insult here! I hope your attempt at comedy was intentional. Otherwise, you need to take it down more notches than anyone else.
He didn't say you were insulting people. He said you were being a smug ass.
Not what I meant. He made a direct, personal insult towards me. While also telling me to take it down 7 notches. You see the irony there yes? Calling someone names is at least as bad if not worse than acting smug. Irony.
ClockworkZion wrote: Brotherhood of Psykers still says that if the unit suffers a Perils only one model takes it. It sounds like we have a rules issue where one says everyone and the other says just one.
No, just no. Brotherhood of Psykers is a general big old rulebook rule. The Psychic Barrage rule is more specific. Specific beats general. This is crystal clear. As much as I want psyker henchmen to be better, they aren't.
Rulebook doesn't say "specific trumps general" (seriously there are VERY specific ways things work here and what we have is a rules loop when you look at RAW, one changes all the Perils to one, the other turns that into all and there isn't a real conflict in how it can work, it just needs to be clarified on which they want the end result to be) and with the way the book was mostly copied and pasted this may be a legitimate mistake seeing as they changed the Psyker entry. Assuming it's intention isn't the same as it being intentional
And Super Newb, take it down about 7 notches. No one likes someone who acts like a smug ass on the internet.
Oh sweet irony. You're the only one who made a personal insult here! I hope your attempt at comedy was intentional. Otherwise, you need to take it down more notches than anyone else.
You're confusing an insult with a comment about your behavior. You were behaving poorly and coming off as an ass. I was requesting you tone it down because I assume you aren't actually an ass and don't want to be perceived as one, but you can prove me wrong if you really wish.
Not to derail too far here, but he wasn't calling you names. He was making a statement of fact.
Either way, I think we've covered this. We can take it to PM if you want to talk about it further.
Sorry, that can't be the last word. A personal insult is a personal insult. Whether it is in your opinion factual or not, it is *still* a personal insult and is of course against the rules here. How could it be any other way? Imagine if forums had to fact check to decide if something was an insult or not. If someone called me a fat bastard, would they have to collect evidence on whether or not I am fat and whether or not I am literally a bastard? No. Now we can take this to PM if you somehow disagree with this.
ClockworkZion wrote: You're confusing an insult with a comment about your behavior. You were behaving poorly and coming off as an ass. I was requesting you tone it down because I assume you aren't actually an ass and don't want to be perceived as one, but you can prove me wrong if you really wish.
Ah ha, so you can call anyone anything, because to you they come off that way, so long as it is secretly implied that you assume the person is not what you are claiming they are.
Super Newb, it wasn't meant as an insult and you are reading into it too far if you really think it is one. The fact is I was commenting about the tone of your posts and how it was perceivable and was asking you to take it down a bit because of it. It was never written to attack you, just highlight the issue of the tone of your posts.
Dudes, just take it somewhere else. This isn't the place to try and see who has a bigger ruler or whatever derogatory term you want to use. Stick to the forum topic or PM them if there was something they said you didn't like. Thanks
Back to thoughts on allied inquisitors, are they worth it? I think Coteaz probably is and i'm working with some interesting ideas for Fortifications with Coteaz and Henchmen.
Also, I need ideas for a Hereticus Jokaero. Servitor?
Back to thoughts on allied inquisitors, are they worth it? I think Coteaz probably is and i'm working with some interesting ideas for Fortifications with Coteaz and Henchmen.
Also, I need ideas for a Hereticus Jokaero. Servitor?
No, there is already Servitors in the unit and that could be confusing. Tech Priests perhaps instead?
Back to thoughts on allied inquisitors, are they worth it? I think Coteaz probably is and i'm working with some interesting ideas for Fortifications with Coteaz and Henchmen.
Also, I need ideas for a Hereticus Jokaero. Servitor?
Yea Coteaz is probably the best thing in the book in my opinion, and I believe him with plasma cannon servitors and a few henchman in a unit make a solid cheap troop, and give immense buffs. Especially if you prescience your plasma cannon servitors, and then someone tries to deep strike near him... I know that is a common tactic but for SoB to use... Gold
Okay, postive use? Immo spam at high points where you don't get a second FOC. That's where I would see them.
Show me how you'd use Celestians at 2000 points. I'd be interested to see your imagination at work on this. The banner seems an obvious way to beef them up.
pretre wrote: Back to thoughts on allied inquisitors, are they worth it? I think Coteaz probably is and i'm working with some interesting ideas for Fortifications with Coteaz and Henchmen.
I think they are worth it but we need to figure out what they're good for. Other than being a Lvl 2 Psyker, the big draw for Coteaz are his hench-grots. I think the hench-grots are huge for the ladies now that our Troops units are back to being useful again.
What I really want is some way to get Prescience on my Dominions. I want to keep the Inquisitors out of the Dom squads to keep them safe, but I don't think that's possible. Even if you have the Liber and scout a BSS unit with two Inqs forward you're still stuck not being able to target the embarked Dominions.
My new current plan is to have the Doms embarked with the Inquisitor and then have him cast Prescience at the beginning of the turn. The ladies disembark, leaving the Inquisitor behind. (Or you could have the Inquisitor disembark behind the Rhino and try to catch him with another unit.) Now he has a chance of not dying and the Dominons can use their AoF to get re-rolls and ignores cover.
It seems like a lot of moving parts but it might be crazy enough to work.
Okay, postive use? Immo spam at high points where you don't get a second FOC. That's where I would see them.
Show me how you'd use Celestians at 2000 points. I'd be interested to see your imagination at work on this. The banner seems an obvious way to beef them up.
2500 Point List
Canoness
SCS - HF x4 in TL-MM Immo
Canoness
SCS - HF x3, Sacred Standard in TL-MM Immo
BCC (5) - HF/F in Rhino
BCC (5) - HF/F in Rhino
BCC (5) - HF/F in Rhino
BCC (5) - HF/F in Rhino
BCC (5) - HF/F in Rhino
BCC (5) - HF/F in Rhino
Celestians (5) - HF/F in TL-MM Immo
Celestians (5) - HF/F in TL-MM Immo
Celestians (5) - HF/F in TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) - Melta x4 in TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) - Melta x4 in TL-MM Immo
Dominions (5) - Melta x4 in TL-MM Immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
Like I said. Just filling out slots when you run out at high points.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah, I'm not a fan of ICs riding in other people's vehicles. It is too on the edge.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Back to Celestians. They are BSS with an improved profile but they aren't scoring. So in every case, you want BSS over Celestians. You can get the improved Leadership for the same cost as Celestians (BSS plus VSS is 70, same as Celestians). The only thing you are gaining is WS 4, +1 A and a mediocre faith act. Now, if you could take them in a squad of 20? That'd be something. The power blob would be ridiculous with Celestians.
Super Newb wrote: Brotherhood of Psykers is a general big old rulebook rule. The Psychic Barrage rule is more specific. Specific beats general. This is crystal clear. As much as I want psyker henchmen to be better, they aren't.
Rulebook doesn't say "specific trumps general" (seriously there are VERY specific ways things work here and what we have is a rules loop when you look at RAW, one changes all the Perils to one, the other turns that into all and there isn't a real conflict in how it can work, it just needs to be clarified on which they want the end result to be) and with the way the book was mostly copied and pasted this may be a legitimate mistake seeing as they changed the Psyker entry. Assuming it's intention isn't the same as it being intentional
1) The smart money is on legitimate mistake as this new codex is basically Codex: Cut and Paste But Mixing it All Up So It Looks Different. Lol 2) Brotherhood of Psykers is a general rule, and it seems to me the very very specific rule, found only in one (?) psychic power would trump that rule, be an exception to the rule, as it were.
Either way, IF I take Codex:Inquisition as there is no way I am going to claim only one dude dies when perils happens. When in doubt, don't take the benefit, that's what I say.
toocool61 wrote: Do people think in general that having rhinos for basic sister squads is better than immolators?
I do. You don't want to sacrifice your scoring when you can just shoot out the hatch.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. Having played a few games, I think I am definitely sold on basic Sisters in Rhinos rather than Immos. 10 strong BSSs died easily when they jumped out of their rides to do anything, and 5 ladies go splat even faster. Given you only really need to shoot 2 ladies anyways (the 2 special weapons), going back to Rhinos has been far better (for my playstyle at least).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah, I'm not a fan of ICs riding in other people's vehicles. It is too on the edge.
I REALLY do not want this to turn into a YMDC thread, but how is this even considered possible? Please PM me if it is likely to derail this thread, but... really
Super Newb wrote: Brotherhood of Psykers is a general big old rulebook rule. The Psychic Barrage rule is more specific. Specific beats general. This is crystal clear. As much as I want psyker henchmen to be better, they aren't.
Rulebook doesn't say "specific trumps general" (seriously there are VERY specific ways things work here and what we have is a rules loop when you look at RAW, one changes all the Perils to one, the other turns that into all and there isn't a real conflict in how it can work, it just needs to be clarified on which they want the end result to be) and with the way the book was mostly copied and pasted this may be a legitimate mistake seeing as they changed the Psyker entry. Assuming it's intention isn't the same as it being intentional
1) The smart money is on legitimate mistake as this new codex is basically Codex: Cut and Paste But Mixing it All Up So It Looks Different. Lol 2) Brotherhood of Psykers is a general rule, and it seems to me the very very specific rule, found only in one (?) psychic power would trump that rule, be an exception to the rule, as it were.
Either way, IF I take Codex:Inquisition as there is no way I am going to claim only one dude dies when perils happens. When in doubt, don't take the benefit, that's what I say.
It's mostly copy and paste because the book shares so much with C:GK that there wasn't a lot of room to change things around. Some things were changed, but most of those can be done via errata (Brotherhood of Psykers for instance) or where done to try and force some differences in regardless.
The rulebook actually says nothing about "general vs specific" but talks about things that specifically contradict. The thing is you can apply these rules in either order and run in circles because neither fully contradicts things (unlike, say, how Markerlights overrule the Snap Fire rule for Overwatch).
I'm not running Psykers at the moment, but I'm willing to bet it's going to get an update.
In my opinion inquisitors are VERY worth it for AS. Having C:I and C: AS almost feels like having C: WH again. Inquisition fills in so many holes in the AS codex.
Sisters have no fliers; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have no psykers; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have limited access to plasma; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have NO access to Las; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have no assault vehicles; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters assault squads are kind of bad; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters vehicles are all pretty frail; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters scoring units are pricey; inquisitors have it covered.
The two codices just synergize so well, and with the insanely low cost, I'd say an inquisitorial detachment is a no-brainer for just about any AS force.
Sisters have no psykers; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters scoring units are pricey; inquisitors have it covered.
Agree.
Quo wrote: Sisters have no fliers; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have limited access to plasma; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have NO access to Las; inquisitors have it covered.
Kind of agree.
Valks are just OK. I don't see too many Sisters players scrambling to get them in their armies. I could be wrong though. On the other two, I don't think Lascannons and Plasma weapons are really things that were missing. We don't need them that much.
Sisters assault squads are kind of bad; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have no assault vehicles; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters vehicles are all pretty frail; inquisitors have it covered.
Disagree.
There's nothing in the C:I that assaults better than what's in the Sisters list. Sure you can get a Land Raider for your henchmob if you want to drop an extra 250 points on a pretty fragile assault unit. Again, it's not like Sisters can use the assault vehicles in C:I so they're really just there for the henchmen which aren't deserving of such a lavish ride. With respect to vehicle fragility, Rhinos and Chimeras are pretty much a wash so you're left with Valks and LRs which the Sisters can't actually use. We really haven't gained anything on these counts.
C:I has some good options for us, but it's not some magic gizmo that's going to fill the holes in C:AS.
Quo wrote: Sisters have no fliers; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have limited access to plasma; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have NO access to Las; inquisitors have it covered.
Kind of agree.
Valks are just OK. I don't see too many Sisters players scrambling to get them in their armies. I could be wrong though. On the other two, I don't think Lascannons and Plasma weapons are really things that were missing. We don't need them that much.
Yeah, valks aren't the best flier around, but it's something at least. If they could get psybolt ammo they'd be a lot more enticing.
If Retributors could take las cannons, I wouldn't bother bringing exorcists. 48 inches is the longest range we have, and it's on a fairly unreliable platform. Extra long-range, high-Str, low-AP shots are never unwelcome.
Every weekend I get raped by eldar star cannon spam (their version of plasma). It's nice to turn the tables sometimes. Melta is still a better choice for vehicles, but vs 3+ infantry our options are either meltas/exorcist missiles, or try to drown them in volume of fire. Plasma gives heavy infantry the finger at a longer range than melta. I guess, sometimes you don't know what you've been missing until you insta-gib a 10 man squad of warp spiders with a plasma cannon volley.
Sisters assault squads are kind of bad; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters have no assault vehicles; inquisitors have it covered.
Sisters vehicles are all pretty frail; inquisitors have it covered.
Disagree.
There's nothing in the C:I that assaults better than what's in the Sisters list. Sure you can get a Land Raider for your henchmob if you want to drop an extra 250 points on a pretty fragile assault unit. Again, it's not like Sisters can use the assault vehicles in C:I so they're really just there for the henchmen which aren't deserving of such a lavish ride. With respect to vehicle fragility, Rhinos and Chimeras are pretty much a wash so you're left with Valks and LRs which the Sisters can't actually use. We really haven't gained anything on these counts.
Repentia are bad, Penitent engines are bad, celestians are bad. SCS + Canoness is decent, but expensive when kitted out for CC. Inquisitorial henchmen are actually better than Ecclesiarchy battle conclaves because they're not limited to power swords only (yet). Re-rollable 3++ is not particularly fragile, and 20 Str 6 AP2 or Str 7 AP4 attacks is nothing to scoff at, especially if you're re-rolling wounds, and 1s to hit. We may have to agree to disagree, but I think a melee geared henchman squad is well worth a land raider.
True, sister squads cannot use the valks and land raiders. However, they're still on the table, and your opponent still has to deal with them.
C:I has some good options for us, but it's not some magic gizmo that's going to fill the holes in C:AS.
I stand by my first assessment of C:AS. In my opinion C:AS is just as bad as the white dwarf mini-dex (I see flames incoming). Yes, it fixed some problems, but it nerfed just as many things that didn't need nerfing. We still lack variation, our number of unique units is depressingly low, and we're very very predictable. And with the march of 6e we have become over-costed. I don't mean to say that C:I is suddenly going to fix all our problems. But it does go a long way in filling the gaps.
I fielded Coteaz and 3 hench squads sunday night. The difference in power level between the two books was obvious. I guess, think about it this way. C:AS is based on some of the weakest writing Cruddace has done, while C:I is based on a Matt Ward book that had people crying foul for years (though, admittedly, not because of the inquisitors per se).
Jancoran wrote: Yeah that's uh...not 2K, not imagination and its not even a tourney army. So...yeah. gimme a break. That's not your best effort.
I already told you the limited circumstances where they are useful. Now I just showed you them. Then I explained why they are not worth taking unless all your other slots are full. Sorry, but there is no list under 2.5k where I would take them over more BSS.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Amerikon wrote: There's nothing in the C:I that assaults better than what's in the Sisters list. Sure you can get a Land Raider for your henchmob if you want to drop an extra 250 points on a pretty fragile assault unit. Again, it's not like Sisters can use the assault vehicles in C:I so they're really just there for the henchmen which aren't deserving of such a lavish ride.
4 Crusaders, 4 DCA, 3 Priests, Xeno Inquisitor with Psyker, Rad and Psychotroke.
I'm not sold on the LR and assault henchmen squads, just so many points that I could be spending elsewhere. I do however love psykers and plasma servitor/monkeys, seriously loving the idea of an inquisitor with the Psycolocoum (spelling?). Out side of Tau/Necron it seems every army I've gone up against lately has at least one psyker and I am just looking forward to the conversation when I reveal this squad has BS10 against the psyker's unit.
Access to the flyer I don't care for because I'm already rocking an Avenger but ofcourse that will vary from group to group.
Quo, you've said you had success with Plasma Cannon Servitors, how exactly have you run them/with what kind of list? I'm drawn to them, but worry that they'll be exposed to Tau/Eldar due to the mid range shooting that the Cannon requires?
Side note, how about adding in Chimeras to our lists now? they give some additional MSU/Plasma/mid range support we'd otherwise not have. I've thought about throwing 2 in to my typical Sisters list.
KelCJ wrote: Quo, you've said you had success with Plasma Cannon Servitors, how exactly have you run them/with what kind of list? I'm drawn to them, but worry that they'll be exposed to Tau/Eldar due to the mid range shooting that the Cannon requires?
Side note, how about adding in Chimeras to our lists now? they give some additional MSU/Plasma/mid range support we'd otherwise not have. I've thought about throwing 2 in to my typical Sisters list.
To be fair, C:I just dropped, so all this is anecdotal. The Inquisitorial detachment I've been bringing is Coteaz, 3 plasma cannon servitors, 6 crusaders with axes and a priest all in one unit with Coteaz attached. I also bring 2 squads of 3 acolytes each and keep them in reserve.
What I do is build a little fortress as far forward in my deployment zone as I can, as close to the center of the map as possible. I set up my exorcists, ideally with their asses up against LOS blocking terrain, so they can't be shot in rear armor. Surround them with an ADL, buy the quad gun if you have the points. Deploy the servitors at the front edge of your deployment zone inside the ADL. Keep Coteaz with them, so they don't Mind Lock. On turn one, move the crusaders forward. Servitors aren't too durable, you want any AP shots to hit the crusaders first for 3++. There's a lot of deepstriking in my meta, so I bring enough Crusaders to surround Coteaz and the servitors. You can bring fewer if you want. The plasma cannon's 36" range hits the majority of the board, if you're firing from the middle. If you have two or more exorcists, bring a second inquisitor, and plasma cannon squad, maybe drop some crusaders to save on points. Keep those exorcists prescience'd and spam that plasma and quad gun as hard as you can. Stuff should come forward to try to get to the side armor on the exorcists, when that happens, wipe them out with the plasma.
Edit: Psybolt Chimeras are looking pretty sexy. . . I'll have to find a clever way to work those in.
Hmm... putting crusaders into the plasma squad, didn't think of that, my plan was to just take a few acolytes as fodder. It is more expensive but a couple of 3++ is likely better than the acolytes for keeping the important stuff alive.
pretre wrote:Chimeras can get Psy ammo too. Swap the turret for 6 S6 AP4 shots.
Madcat87 wrote:Hmm... putting crusaders into the plasma squad, didn't think of that, my plan was to just take a few acolytes as fodder. It is more expensive but a couple of 3++ is likely better than the acolytes for keeping the important stuff alive.
Quo wrote:
To be fair, C:I just dropped, so all this is anecdotal. The Inquisitorial detachment I've been bringing is Coteaz, 3 plasma cannon servitors, 6 crusaders with axes and a priest all in one unit with Coteaz attached. I also bring 2 squads of 3 acolytes each and keep them in reserve.
What I do is build a little fortress as far forward in my deployment zone as I can, as close to the center of the map as possible. I set up my exorcists, ideally with their asses up against LOS blocking terrain, so they can't be shot in rear armor. Surround them with an ADL, buy the quad gun if you have the points. Deploy the servitors at the front edge of your deployment zone inside the ADL. Keep Coteaz with them, so they don't Mind Lock. On turn one, move the crusaders forward. Servitors aren't too durable, you want any AP shots to hit the crusaders first for 3++. There's a lot of deepstriking in my meta, so I bring enough Crusaders to surround Coteaz and the servitors. You can bring fewer if you want. The plasma cannon's 36" range hits the majority of the board, if you're firing from the middle. If you have two or more exorcists, bring a second inquisitor, and plasma cannon squad, maybe drop some crusaders to save on points. Keep those exorcists prescience'd and spam that plasma and quad gun as hard as you can. Stuff should come forward to try to get to the side armor on the exorcists, when that happens, wipe them out with the plasma.
Edit: Psybolt Chimeras are looking pretty sexy. . . I'll have to find a clever way to work those in.
Hmmm you're right about the crusaders. That is pretty brilliant. I had the same thing in mind with regards to disposable bodies...But I do like that idea. It's what I had intended to do, but wasn't quite sure how to run it. So glad I asked. I will probably bring acolytes for spare bodies still, especially versus ap5 or higher where I wouldn't want to risk my crusader, but I'm still debating.
As a side note I had also intended on bringing a second Inquis to sit with a SCS with Heavy Bolters to give me a little more anti-infantry. That way he could prescience the squad or the nearby Exorcist depending on the situation. Plus, and I hate to admit it, Servo-skulls. They're too good, if not to bring, especially since it allows my girls a better chance to position themselves to brace against the alpha strike, especially if going second.
I've been on the fence about the Chimeras, but honestly, I'm really leaning toward them with super cheap front AV12 transports (with 3-6 Acolytes armed with plasma/melta) and Str 6 Heavy Bolters...with the range you wouldn't even need to move them too often so you could always benefit from both guns (especially if you dropped the special weapons). Plus, you could use Rhinos/Immolators to block their flimsy side armor if you need to.
Madcat87 wrote: Hmm... putting crusaders into the plasma squad, didn't think of that, my plan was to just take a few acolytes as fodder. It is more expensive but a couple of 3++ is likely better than the acolytes for keeping the important stuff alive.
The other reason I love crusaders is because if something gets in your face, you can charge them and expect to win. Coteaz with crusaders and a priest is pretty damn dangerous in close combat even without DCAs.
In my last game the plasma servitors killed one 10 man warp spider squad, one 5 man dire avenger squad, and ticked the last hull point off a Wave serpent with their cannons. The crusaders wiped another 10 man warp spider squad in CC, and then consolidated onto an objective. They made their points back two and half times over.
My exorcist and quad gun canoness were also shining due to Coteaz's powers.
As a side note I had also intended on bringing a second Inquis to sit with a SCS with Heavy Bolters to give me a little more anti-infantry. That way he could prescience the squad or the nearby Exorcist depending on the situation. Plus, and I hate to admit it, Servo-skulls. They're too good, if not to bring, especially since it allows my girls a better chance to position themselves to brace against the alpha strike, especially if going second.
I've been on the fence about the Chimeras, but honestly, I'm really leaning toward them with super cheap front AV12 transports (with 3-6 Acolytes armed with plasma/melta) and Str 6 Heavy Bolters...with the range you wouldn't even need to move them too often so you could always benefit from both guns (especially if you dropped the special weapons). Plus, you could use Rhinos/Immolators to block their flimsy side armor if you need to.
If massed infantry is the meta in your area, and you have the points to spend, I'd say the SCS is a good plan. You don't even have to put the inquisitor with them, you could keep him with servitors and prescience whatever you needed to. I like it.
All right, here's a question. 10 points for a storm bolter. Normally I'd say hell no, but you buy psybolts once and it works for all your bolt weapons. two more S5 shots seems like it might be worth it. What do you guys think?
All right, here's a question. 10 points for a storm bolter. Normally I'd say hell no, but you buy psybolts once and it works for all your bolt weapons. two more S5 shots seems like it might be worth it. What do you guys think?
It's too bad C:I didn't bring the stormbolter points down to 5 like they did in C:AS. If that were the case I'd say go for it. But 10 points is still too much to pay for a 24" weapon, especially when the rest of the guns will usually be firing at over 30".
If massed infantry is the meta in your area, and you have the points to spend, I'd say the SCS is a good plan. You don't even have to put the inquisitor with them, you could keep him with servitors and prescience whatever you needed to. I like it.
All right, here's a question. 10 points for a storm bolter. Normally I'd say hell no, but you buy psybolts once and it works for all your bolt weapons. two more S5 shots seems like it might be worth it. What do you guys think?
I think it could also be worth, if you put the Inquis with the SCS, giving him Termie armor so he can tank str 5 or lower guns in addition to FNP. In this way he can keep your otherwise (likely) weak warlord Canoness in addition to the prescience he gives.
I think it could be worth it if you give your Acolytes or w/e is in the Chimera say Plasma, at least in that way it will synergize a little bit, but you will likely be snap firing the guns anyway. It could help the following turn, however.
*Edited to include list/grammar*
So, all this talk has made me want to come up with a list, but unfortunately I don't have the Inquis codex yet (basing all info off the IG and GK codices I have/borrowed from my friend), so can you guys/girls help me make sure this is still legal/legit? I've put it in a spoiler for convenience.
Spoiler:
HQ:
Canoness + Litanies = 70
Coteaz = 100
Ordos Inquisitor + ML 1 + Force Sword + 3x Servo-Skulls + Psychotroke Grenades = 79
Sororitas Command Squad + Hospitalier + 4x Heavy Bolters = 100 (Coteaz will likely go here)
toocool61 wrote: Do people think in general that having rhinos for basic sister squads is better than immolators?
I do. You don't want to sacrifice your scoring when you can just shoot out the hatch.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. Having played a few games, I think I am definitely sold on basic Sisters in Rhinos rather than Immos. 10 strong BSSs died easily when they jumped out of their rides to do anything, and 5 ladies go splat even faster. Given you only really need to shoot 2 ladies anyways (the 2 special weapons), going back to Rhinos has been far better (for my playstyle at least).
So are you still running F/HF to fire out of the top hatch or are you shooting melta out of the hatch?
From my experience, I can never resist disembarking if using melta in a rhino because it'll get me 6" closer to get in the loveloy 2D6 zone. I guess I need to show some restraint in disembarking! My only concern with F/HF from the top hatch is that you've got to be close and if you don't remove your target they could surround the rhino, kill it in assault and then we'd be removing the squad anyway due to not being able to risembark.
Saying that I have found running a blob with both support from 5 woman and 10 women BSS squads in immos and rhinos respectively to be effective.
toocool61 wrote: Do people think in general that having rhinos for basic sister squads is better than immolators?
I do. You don't want to sacrifice your scoring when you can just shoot out the hatch.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. Having played a few games, I think I am definitely sold on basic Sisters in Rhinos rather than Immos. 10 strong BSSs died easily when they jumped out of their rides to do anything, and 5 ladies go splat even faster. Given you only really need to shoot 2 ladies anyways (the 2 special weapons), going back to Rhinos has been far better (for my playstyle at least).
So are you still running F/HF to fire out of the top hatch or are you shooting melta out of the hatch?
From my experience, I can never resist disembarking if using melta in a rhino because it'll get me 6" closer to get in the loveloy 2D6 zone. I guess I need to show some restraint in disembarking! My only concern with F/HF from the top hatch is that you've got to be close and if you don't remove your target they could surround the rhino, kill it in assault and then we'd be removing the squad anyway due to not being able to risembark.
Saying that I have found running a blob with both support from 5 woman and 10 women BSS squads in immos and rhinos respectively to be effective.
D
Yeah, primarily HF/F. I ran with combi-plasmas too for a bit, given how well they work with PE, but I rarely ever shot them since the squad was either sitting in their rhino hunting troops, or dead.
I absolutely agree on the melta range though, I have been trying to find a way to get a 10 girl MG/MG/Combi-Melta squad on the table but the points just barely don't add up. I could drop all the dozer blades I run... but seriously, I am the absolute king of the " ha-ha immobilized" so I love my reroll.
I am currently enjoying:
Jacobus
4 Priests (1 litanies, 3 mauls)
Coteaz
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (rad grenades, servo skulls, hammerhand, Liber)
Blob with 2 MG 3x 5 ladies in rhinos w/dozers rocking HF/F/Combi-plas
2x 5 melta Dom squads in MM Immos w/dozer, laud and vet serg
3 Exorcists.
I think the vets on the doms are a bit overkill... but I have not found a way to spend the 50 extra points from the 2 vet updgrades and the 3 combi-plas that works (for me) yet. As I mentioned in pretre's list building thread, I am worried Doms may dramatically decrease in "Awesome!" as a result of the servo-skull caddies everyone can get now.
I also REALLY want to make a Valk work, but I am having trouble... it does what we are already so good at, and I really miss my vendetta.
ClockworkZion wrote: Takes a pretty good sized squad to completely surround a Rhino in such a way that you can't get out even through an Emergency Disembark.
This is a valid point. Yeah I guess there's few opposites for it to happen, just something to be aware of I guess. I must say I do like man 9 woman with priest squads in a rhino, they're better at actually achieving something rather than just being a distraction unit, which is what tend to be the case for the smaller squads in the Immo.
ClockworkZion wrote: Takes a pretty good sized squad to completely surround a Rhino in such a way that you can't get out even through an Emergency Disembark.
This is a valid point. Yeah I guess there's few opposites for it to happen, just something to be aware of I guess. I must say I do like man 9 woman with priest squads in a rhino, they're better at actually achieving something rather than just being a distraction unit, which is what tend to be the case for the smaller squads in the Immo.
D
I'm not saying to not be aware of it, I just wanted to point out that there aren't too many who can really do it, and those who can die quickly to flamery death.
I had 26 points left over so I decided to grab an extra girl per Battle Sister squad. Wasn't sure what else to do with them. Thoughts?
Your points are off in several places:
Canoness + Litanies = 80
Sororitas Command Squad + Hospitalier + 4x Heavy Bolters = 115
I believe these points are off but I cannot check:
6x Acolytes + 2x Plasma Guns + Chimera + 2x Heavy Bolters + Psybolt Ammo = 110
List composition looks good though.
Thanks I've made the proper adjustments. Dropped the psychotropes and an acolyte to compensate. Put me right at 1,748. Thanks for the check and you were right on the chimera squads. I was off 4 points since I forgot I added an extra acolyte.
So, think it could work on a competitive scale?
In regards to Valkyries I do think that despite some small overlap they give us in anti infantry, they do allow us to do so at range and make plays for late game objective grabbing we might not otherwise be able to do. There is some value in that I think.
Thanks I've made the proper adjustments. Dropped the psychotropes and an acolyte to compensate. Put me right at 1,748. Thanks for the check and you were right on the chimera squads. I was off 4 points since I forgot I added an extra acolyte.
So, think it could work on a competitive scale?
In regards to Valkyries I do think that despite some small overlap they give us in anti infantry, they do allow us to do so at range and make plays for late game objective grabbing we might not otherwise be able to do. There is some value in that I think.
I think it still needs some work to be competitive, but also you have to play what makes it fun for you.
One thing that sticks out is why you need a Priest in the Crusader squad. If the unit is built to stay put and shoot, then it doesn't need 5 Crusaders and a Priest; if the unit is meant to get into close combat, take out the Servitors and give the Inquisitor back his Grenades, oh, and get a ride. Your units need to be focused on one or the other. Also, what are your plans for anti-flyer?
Hmm well the way they're decked out is for a few reasons. The crusaders are there for the SS rather than for assault, this is mainly because of the couple of Tau gunlines I play against to get around their ignore cover shenanagins and avoid losing the squad to a single riptide shot. They're also for midfield control. With Coteaz in the group I can have some deterrent versus deep striking or drop pod armies (both of which I play against) as well as the potential to tarpit said units. Which is also what the priest is for, but you're right, with an Inquistor with them he's not entirely necessary. Stubborn goes a long way.
However, that isn't to say it can't be improved. The idea of giving them another Psymera is appealing as the range of the Heavy Bolters fits nicely with the Plasma Cannons, giving me a bunker to shoot from.
AA...well the hope was that prescienced Exorcists could take care of that... even if it's not super consistent. Problem is, I really despise ADLs. One of our Tau players has really given me a bad taste for it.
I played a Land Raider Crusader with MM and an extra SB, along with Psycannon bolts on Tues, packed with 6 Arcos, a Priest and Eviscerator, and 2 Death Cult Assassins. It was a MONSTER. Psycannon affects every weapon on it except the MM and it just wrecks face. The Henchmen ate a squad of Hormagaunts, a squad of Warriors including a Prime with twin Boneswords, and moved on to hit backfield Biovores when we called it. The LRC killed a bunch of gaunts, Warriors in cover, a stray Spore Mine salvo threatening my Inquisitor's unit, a brood of Genestealers and a full squad of Zoanthropes who were unable to penetrate its hide. Very much looking forward to running it alongside my Sisters, it is a death machine. I also ran a Rhino with Psybolts and extra SB which was also very effective for me before it was killed by the Zoanthropes.
KelCJ wrote: However, that isn't to say it can't be improved. The idea of giving them another Psymera is appealing as the range of the Heavy Bolters fits nicely with the Plasma Cannons, giving me a bunker to shoot from.
Careful. If you put Coteaz in the Chimera, he can't prescience the exorcists. If you put the servitors in and leave Coteaz out, they risk Mind Lock.
So back in 3rd Edition, one of the most popular builds for Sisters was the Immolator spam... back then Immolators were fast, so the TL Heavy Flamer was the main weapon of choice, and had a fire point, allowing a meltagun Sister within to shoot out. Fast forward to 6th: Immolators no longer have a fire point, but are cheaper with a 6++ Invulnerable save, and since they are no longer fast, the TLMM seems to be the default weapon of choice.
So the question: is Immolator spam more viable now, with TLMM being the default option and flamer Sisters inside the transport? I think the current standard setup allows us to control the midfield better without the need to rush the opponent's lines, and control of the midfield usually dictates who is controlling the game. With the range MMs get, we are still forced to move forward, but can still be close to our supports (infantry, blobs, etc). And with the general reduction in points, 8 to 11 Immolators with a full complement of Exorcists is very doable in 2000 points.
I know that many players like to primarily field Rhinos with a few Immolators thrown in for support... is this due to points? Immolator spam not being a viable tactic anymore? I'd like to hear some thoughts about this.
davidgr33n wrote: So back in 3rd Edition, one of the most popular builds for Sisters was the Immolator spam...
snip
I know that many players like to primarily field Rhinos with a few Immolators thrown in for support... is this due to points? Immolator spam not being a viable tactic anymore? I'd like to hear some thoughts about this.
I think you're thinking 4th and 5th edition. C:WH came out towards the end of 3rd, iirc. Most of 3rd edition was mixed mech with Redemptionists. (I left 40k right towards the end of 3rd and came back during 5th.)
I field Rhinos for my Battle Sisters because they are fragile and do not want to be exposed to do their job. She who bails, fails. For other units, it is fine to use a TL-MM Immo because they aren't scoring and it doesn't matter as much if we lose them.
I think you're thinking 4th and 5th edition. C:WH came out towards the end of 3rd, iirc. Most of 3rd edition was mixed mech with Redemptionists. (I left 40k right towards the end of 3rd and came back during 5th.)
I just checked my old material and you're right, good call.
I field Rhinos for my Battle Sisters because they are fragile and do not want to be exposed to do their job. She who bails, fails. For other units, it is fine to use a TL-MM Immo because they aren't scoring and it doesn't matter as much if we lose them.
Ok, that is reasonable. So are you essentially saying that Immolators are fire magnets whereas Rhinos are not?
I field Rhinos for my Battle Sisters because they are fragile and do not want to be exposed to do their job. She who bails, fails. For other units, it is fine to use a TL-MM Immo because they aren't scoring and it doesn't matter as much if we lose them.
Ok, that is reasonable. So are you essentially saying that Immolators are fire magnets whereas Rhinos are not?
Kind of. More of the fact that in order to use their weapons with an Immo, the BSS have to jump out. That exposes them to enemy fire and death (because 5 girls don't live long). With a rhino, they can do their job and stay in.
The old 11 Immie spam list worked because Immies back then were fast with Flamers and they had fire points, allowing a player to maximize speed, resilience, and correct attack on target. The current version of Immies are both less flexible and cheaper, opening up different tactics: longer ranged MM and a short squad if anti-infantry would technically rebalance, yet MM and a short squad of MG gals seems to be a better unit as they are focused on Monster/Tank hunting.
We had to take Rhinos back in the day because BSS started at 10 models; now we want to take Rhinos for the top hatch and the protection.
We'll see how the meta shacks out, but I think Immie Spam is back.
KelCJ wrote: However, that isn't to say it can't be improved. The idea of giving them another Psymera is appealing as the range of the Heavy Bolters fits nicely with the Plasma Cannons, giving me a bunker to shoot from.
Careful. If you put Coteaz in the Chimera, he can't prescience the exorcists. If you put the servitors in and leave Coteaz out, they risk Mind Lock.
That is a really good point. Although I suppose I could be content with just the servitors being twin-linked or just use the Chimera as a turret essentially, adding in the additional 6 str 6 shots, while the squad hunkers down in a ruin or some kind of cover.
jeffersonian000 wrote: The current version of Immies are both less flexible and cheaper, opening up different tactics: longer ranged MM and a short squad if anti-infantry would technically rebalance, yet MM and a short squad of MG gals seems to be a better unit as they are focused on Monster/Tank hunting.
SJ
Even though the current Immolators may be less flexible, I like not having to get right up on my opponent to use the primary weapon. I also like twin flamers as my Specials, as they can offer some crowd control when necessary. True, when the Immolators get wrecked, etc, the Sisters have to walk to bring the flamers to bear (which is why I don't put the extra points into Heavies), but they don't necessarily have to walk into the enemy lines, just get to Objectives. Also, the long range on the MMs means they can usually get one or two shots off before becoming useless, whereas with the old configuration sometimes we got lucky to bring half the weapons to use.
Oi
I want ask you about Lord Creed from IG. His ability Tactical Genius allows to give one unit a scout USR. So what do you think about:
scouting Repent Engines
scouting blob 20sisters
scouting Inqusition Land Raider with Battle Conclave
Have ever tried it?
I don't see how Immolator spam is viable when the most efficient way to deal with multi wound MC, lots of threats, death stars, 2+ saves is the volume of fire.
I agree that 11 TL-MM shots + 10.5 or 7 Exorcist shots are a lot, but it doesn't FEEL enough when played in practice. In addition, carhammer got boring real fast in 5E.
ninjaska wrote: Oi
I want ask you about Lord Creed from IG. His ability Tactical Genius allows to give one unit a scout USR. So what do you think about:
scouting Repent Engines
scouting blob 20sisters
scouting Inqusition Land Raider with Battle Conclave
Have ever tried it?
Codex =I= can scout one unit with a relic for 15 points. the Inquisitor carrying it can be a battle brother and scout all of those units other than the Penitent engine, which is now crap since with I3 and Rear armor 10 it can be glanced to death before it even gets to swing by a squad of tactical marines.
Now a bit more serious.
How about scouting forward a MM team of rets? lets you get even more melta fun in range by turn 1 (and as the technically didn't "move" on turn 1, they did it on turn 0, they can shoot normally)
meh_ wrote: I don't see how Immolator spam is viable when the most efficient way to deal with multi wound MC, lots of threats, death stars, 2+ saves is the volume of fire.
I agree that 11 TL-MM shots + 10.5 or 7 Exorcist shots are a lot, but it doesn't FEEL enough when played in practice. In addition, carhammer got boring real fast in 5E.
Volume of fire is certainly a good way to deal with those threats, but what AP1 and AP2 weaponry does is bypass the armor saves of all those threats and forces them to use their invuls or cover saves. The Immolators also serve as transport to get the girls into template range quickly so they can use their massed flamers to put out that volume of fire.
It's still too early to tell whether Immolator spam is a competitive / viable build or not. I just happen to like tanks and Immolators, Sisters has always been the most fun army for me to play, and I've never gotten bored of putting 10+ tanks on the table.
How about scouting forward a MM team of rets? lets you get even more melta fun in range by turn 1 (and as the technically didn't "move" on turn 1, they did it on turn 0, they can shoot normally)
Put your ADL 6" forward of your deployment zone then Scout them forward, that's a viable tactic. But if you're spending the points for Scouts, why not use them on something like a Rhino full of girls that can move 12", then moves forward again 1st turn.
dadakkaest wrote: ... Penitent engine, which is now crap since with I3 and Rear armor 10 it can be glanced to death before it even gets to swing by a squad of tactical marines.
Walkers take hits on front Armour in close combat unless they are immobilized. I thought Penitent engines were I4 now?
Ovion wrote: It's an Eviscerator. xD
The Combi-Bolter is a slightly older piece.
Ah, not having any Repentias I didn't realize that!
Does the combi-bolter allow you to use it for any of the specials? I mean, could it be used as both a combi-flamer or a combi-melta? I usually just "counts-as" my combi-weapons, but one day I'd love to have all my models actually toting their WYSIWYG weapons and gear.
I'm uploading them to Shapeways at the moment (which will be pricey, but available now), and I'll be working on setting up a 'proper' store with resin casting in the new year.
Ovion wrote: Here's the full set of combi weapons atm
Spoiler:
I'm uploading them to Shapeways at the moment (which will be pricey, but available now), and I'll be working on setting up a 'proper' store with resin casting in the new year.
Oh man! Those are cool!
I'd seen your post a bit back with the combi-crossbow, didn't know you had other models. Once you get set up I'll be getting quite a few of those from you
For those C:AS players -- davidgr33n and I have been bouncing some ideas off each other on how to maximize the value out the C:I supplement. It may help some of you thinking about their C:AS armies.
A lot of tactical posts drop off the first page after a few hours -- and this way someone going through and reading this thread in a week might find some ideas.
labmouse42 wrote: For those C:AS players -- davidgr33n and I have been bouncing some ideas off each other on how to maximize the value out the C:I supplement. It may help some of you thinking about their C:AS armies.
A lot of tactical posts drop off the first page after a few hours -- and this way someone going through and reading this thread in a week might find some ideas.
Thanks for pointing it out! Will need to take a look.
Uriah Jacobus
4 x Priests, 1 with Litanies and Power Maul, 3 naked
3 x 5 girl BSS in TL Multi-Melta Immolators with Flamer and Heavy Flamer [Priest in each]
16 girl BSS squad [Uriah and Litanies Priest]
2 x 5 girl Dominion squads, 4 meltas, Immolators
6 x Repentia in Rhino [for giggles]
2 x Excorcists
Aegis with quad
Got a win against Eldar. Really impressed with performance of blob squad. Soaked up loads of shots then Power Maul Priest took down a Wraithknight. Also seized Relic. They get so many special rules from Uriah and the Priest it's ridiculous, and that was with only one Priest.
Priests in BSS are brilliant, I found fearless to be a game changer, and makes them none too shabby if they get charged either.
Presienced Excorcist with Coteaz each turn, would have worked out really nicely if my to wound rolls had been better.
Repentia chewed through Dire Avengers and Rangers but then we house rule assaults from stationary vehicles.
Found it really tough to take down Wraithknights but apart from that didn't have too many troubles. All the flame against Eldar troops worked great. All in all really happy with the new dex and lots of fun to play. Found I could be a lot more aggressive than previously.
I scouted them, one squad couldn't really go anywhere useful as he had infiltrators cutting down my options plus lots of terrain. Other squad got in a first turn round of shooting with ignores cover on Wave Serpent but only took off 2 HPs [Serpent Shields are a wind-up] before getting bladestormed to death next turn. The other squad then tried to take down a Wraithknight but toughness 8 is stupid and they didn't do much before getting charged by it and stomped.
So I think they're really a 1 use unit that need to take out something juicy to make their points back.
Really struggled to take the Wraithknight the whole game - even 4 rounds of shooting with 2 Exorcists [1 presienced] wasn't enough to take one of them down.
Maybe a good solution could be to tie them up with some conclave with priest : good luck killing all those 3++ rerollable crusaders !
The problem is that the Wraithknight is fast and the conclave doesn't have any kind of assault vehicle, so it's almost impossible to do…
So I think they're really a 1 use unit that need to take out something juicy to make their points back.
Yep. I've debated whether or not to even take meltaguns in my Dominion squads since they attract a lot of attention after Scouting, and they usually don't kill / destroy 100 points' worth of enemy before going down. I've seriously considered 4 flamers instead. Sure they don't get the full potential use of 'Ignores Cover', but they're perceived as less of a threat that first round (and so won't be an auto-target), and they are less points-wise.
What melta dominions are doing in this codex is force your opponent in the center of the table.
Anything within 12 inch of a table edge will die when they come in. One squad means your opponent can spread to either sides and take the risk.. two squads and he's likely to deploy in the center of his table side.
If he deploys center... then your 20 sister squad have it easy and will get to assault all his toys on turn 2 or 3.
They might not make up their points every game, but they will always play with the other person's head and for that alone they are worth it.
Edit:
Furthermore you want the other player to be shooting at your dominions. While he's focusing on killing the girls and their rides, he's ignoring your scoring troops. Given that you can have 3 flamers in a normal sister squads that will reroll 1s to wound with their act of faith... you want him ignoring these in favor of taking down your doms.. gives you time to get the BSS in position.
Had my first tourney with the new books this past weekend. Little one at the local shop, here's the summery
My list was briefly:
Uriah
Coteaz (Codex: I)
Ordo Heretics with psyocculm, 3 skulls (Codex: I)
3 BSS squads in MM immolators
1 henchmen squad with plasma cannons, a couple psykers, a DCA and a crusader
1 henchmen squad in a chimera with a psyker, bolter and 3 plasma guns
3 dominion with as many melta as I had in my collection, so 3+ combi, 3+ combi, 2+ combi. All riding in MM immos
3 exorcists
My main goal was to make the first turn or 2 as bloody as possible and force the game to be over quick. I can't stand not being able to complete a tourney game and being called on 'time'.
Game 1: 2 Riptide Tau
Spoiler:
His list was something like this:
Special character that deepstrikes, makes a bodyguard unit larger and doesn't scatter on deepstrike
A body guard of 4 or 5 suits with all sorts of nasty weapons
2 more deepstriking body guard suit units with all sorts of nasty weapons
2 large units of firewarriors
2 units of marker drones
1 unit of some type of suit... not body guards, but looked like they had all sorts of nasty weapons on them
2 riptides
So I would get more specific about what he had, but frankly some of it didn't matter and everyone who is reading this knows that all xenos look the same so who cares what they were.
He put his ADL in the center of the field. I was ok with that.
I ended up setting up first and parked the plasma + inquistor and the dominion on the line off of the center of the board because there was some crazy building with a bridge in the center. Oh, before I forget. The mission was the relic but I as I was testing killyness I didn't much care about that either
He set up his force behind the ADL with the non-bodyguard suits in the center of the field.
Coteaz rolled perfect timeing and presence (which is what I got every round of this tourney... I'm ok with aggressive but a 4++ is sometimes nice... ah well)
He failed to steal initiative so first turn sisters!
I scouted everything forward, then moved them forward jumping all the dominion squads out. There was one unit that I couldn't get in range of the suits, but everything had a target. Shooting saw the suit squad vaporized by melta and an exorcist, one fire warrior squad was decimated by plasma cannons from coteaz's squad, one riptide took 2 wounds (nothing better to shoot at with the one dom squad), and the plasma in the chimera (and the chimera) ripped through the other firewarrior squad killing something like 7 of them through awful armor/cover rolls. Also ended up using an exorcist to shoot up a marker drone squad. He rolled for panic and both fire warrior squads and the marker drones ran for it. Only 1 fire warrior squad was left on the field after the running.
His turn took out a single immolator and a couple dominion sisters.
Turn 2 I targeted the fire warriors first, then the riptides. The fire warriors went down to a space-fish and the Riptides couldn't take the massed melta/exorcist fire. I was rolling pretty well for the random shots on it, averaged 4.5 through the game. The amount of S8 AP1 sisters get is amazing. also, S8 AP1 eats Riptides and makes a VERY hard choice for the tau players of either being agressive with them and taking more wounds without the 3++, or being defensive (which means I win).
He droped his drop troops down near Coteaz, but out of his expecting you range. He opened up with his crazy weapons and took out 2 immolators dropping the BSS squads with heavy flamers near his suits. He also 'stunned' an exorcist on the far right of the field and killed a psyker, the crusader and the DCA from Coteaz's unit.
In my turn the only thing on his side of the field was the last unit of marker drones, so the dominion melta'ed them do artificer hell. Frankly I didn't have anything better to do with them. The exorcists, what was left of Coteaz's unit and every flamer I could bring to bear opened fire on the command unit. Did you know that Tau are generally T4 when they are in suits? Turns out tau armor isn't so good against S8 AP1... He conceded after his commander died to massed firepower
After the game he bought a 3rd riptide... not sure if that would have helped him in this game, but I did sorta feel sorry for him. He didn't do anything wrong, but it was a terrible matchup for him.
Turn 2 against a mostly foot-dar
Spoiler:
So this was an interesting game. The player was the guy that typically runs the tourneys and I know that he is good from reputation and also from watching him play other people. Gotta say I was looking forward to playing this game.
His list:
2 farseers, lvl 3 psykers with stuff on them that I probably should care about more than I do.
Each of the farseers were in blobs of 20 guardians, both squads had 2xbrightlances and waveserpents hovering nearby.
3 warwalkers with brightlances and scatter lasers (I think)
a big unit of warp spiders
2 units of 3 bikes in reserve
1 wraithknight without a shield, and likely all sorts of weapons. He told me, but I don't remember what they were.
Now his trick with the guardians was to get a re-rollable 4++ through his heretical witchcraft psykers, but the emperor twarted his general because one of the psykers did not get the 4++ from divination.
He got to set up first and it was on the long table. This part was key in this game
He decided to set up his force hugging the back of the table. the warp spiders were the closest to the line, but out of line of sight to anything.
I decided that I could out-range him with my exorcists. He had the 2 serpent shields to my 3 exorcists... works for me. I outflanked everything I could and lined up on my back line and behind as much cover as possible.
oh, mission was 3 strategic points... but again the lists were so killy that didn't matter much.
I tried to steal init, but failed. Coteaz wasn't eating his Wheaties that morning i guess (or he was, which made him late)
His first turn he moved his warp spiders up the one side of the field and his wraith knight a bit foward. His warwalkers also shifted up a bit towards the line, but most everything was far out of range. His shooting from his serpents took 2 HP from my one exorcist. (yikes, that was close)
My turn 1
I pushed my force a bit forward, but not all that much. I just wanted to make sure the exorcists were in range.
Launched as many exorcist rockets at the warwalkers as was available and only managed to immobilize one. Rats, lucky for me the other exorcist had a blessed SINGLE missle that managed to fire, hit, pen and blow a wave serpent back to whatever warp the eldar come from.
So far, so good. That was first blood.
Coteaz and his troop were in range of the warp spiders, but they were pretty spread out. Killed a bunch of them anyway, he was down to maybe 5 or 6? hard to remember exactly.
His turn 2
He really wanted revenge for the wave serpent... so he wrecked the exorcist that had 2 HP removed the last round, and ripped the MM off of an immolator. Not much else really happend because he was still out of range of most everything and his bikes didn't show up yet.
My turn 2
Everything that had outflanked came in.
I clustered 2 of the dominion squads near his wraithknight, while the lone dominion on the other side of the field was very near the war walkers. A shooting round later saw the wraithknight and the warwalkers as scrap. Took a big chunk out of his warlord's guardian squad as well, but failed to wound the farseer.
Also, bailed a BSS squad near the warp spiders and combined firepowered them to dust.
His turn 3
His bikes came on the field and tore up the far side's dominion squad. one single melta sister was left along with her immolator. He also shreaded the chimera and everything inside of it. That squad barely hit the field before they were plastered.
My turn 3
Started off by tank shocking the bikes. I find that this is almost always a good idea because you get to run a tank over infantry! Anyway, one of the bike squads failed the leadership test and ran off the field. He conceded at this point because he couldn't take the objectives without the mobility of the bikes.
In the end I was going to control 2 of the objectives and likely be able to contest the 3rd... idk about that last part, but it may have happened with all the dom squads on that side of the field. Still had an awful lot of firepower on both sides, but I was defiantly trading figs to my benefit.
We talked quite a bit after the game and He said that he basically lost in the settup. He should have placed his blobs on the line and challenged the center of the field. I'm not sure if this would have worked for him, but i think he's at least partially right. Again, the long range trades favored me and my outflankers were going to hit HARD. I'd be tempted to scout if he had done that, but I didn't have the flamers to effectively immolate large squads. If he had gotten all of the psyker powers he wanted it would have helped him a lot. 4++ rerollable 20 guardian squads make for a very nice bodyguard and i don't think I had an answer to that outside of massed, focused firepower.
Round 3. The return of the foot eldar... with a slightly different twist
Spoiler:
So round 3 and I find myself playing against another very good player. He brought a foot-dar list that when I saw it I was a bit worried. I wasn't really set up for anti-hord so it was going to be a challenge if things started going against me. Anyway, here's what I remember of his list:
2 farseers, His general was aggressively built with stuff to be aggressive (not sure what, we'll get to that). The other one was defensively built and included something that caused his unit to be fearless. the defensive one got the 4++ divination power, invisibility and the Fear power.
2 units of 8 warp spiders
2 blobs of 20 guardians with 2 starcannons each
a unit of 3 vibro-cannons
10 or so death reapers
1 unit of rangers
So I got the roll to set up first.
He put his ADL in the center of the field. Its nice to know what the enemy is doing before the game starts.
Anyway, I put my scouts on the front line ready to charge across the field and melt whatever they are able to. I figured he would put nasty stuff behind the ADL or in the building next to it. They were kinda obvious places to put stuff... not that I really had the tools to deal with blobs... but whatever. I scattered everything else around and put the servitor skulls towards the center of the field. Didn't want him to infiltrate and mess up my scouting.
He set up his blobs behind the ADL with the 2 farseers in the same squad. the ruined building next to the ADL was filled with his heavies and warp spiders.
Scouted everything up the field
Turn 1.
Took my scouts up to the ADL and everything that was able to opened fire on the unit that had his characters in it. Managed to kill the 'agressive' farseer and reduced the unit down to 4 guardians. The bright side to this was I got first blood and removed a very nasty figure from the field. The down side was that it left the rest of his army untouched. It worried me, but I needed to start somewhere. I flat-outed the BSS squads figuring that the cover wasn't going to go anywhere any time soon.
His turn 1 was pretty much what I expected. He smashed up some vehicles and killed a bunch of domion sisters. One dominion ran from the fear spell, one was reduced to 1 melta sister and the 3rd had 2 sisters killed. Night fighting helped me out this round because my scouts had headlights, but he didn't have that advantage across his army. He also butchered the plasma squad and blew up the chimera. Left the inquisitor cowering in a crater... i'll have to speak with her after the battle.
Turn 2.
So he took his remaining farseer into his 2nd guardian unit so that was my next target. The 'invisibility' spell on them was going to be a problem though. Lucky for me, my BSS were coming into range and they had my flamers and heavy flamers. That said, they wern't ideally spaced. He had spread them out to avoid the flamers and the plasma cannons. Lucky for me, I had immolators (use what you have available, not what you wish you had). So tank shock time! took the 2 immolators and tank shocked both ends of his units with hopes of clustering the entire unit of guardians between the 2 tanks. Unfortunatly, the one on the far side got hung up on the ADL... ah well, best laid plans...
Still, jumped the sisters squads out and torched lots of guardians. The plasma cannons went after the dark reapers and killed all but 2. He left a unit of warp spiders in the open so I torched them with the de-meched BSS squad nearby, and also some exorcist shots. Also managed to remove the remaining guardians from round 1's shooting phase.
His turn 2
His 2 bike units showed up and unloaded on my troops. 1 went against the remaining melta dominion sister from one squad, the other went against a BSS squad. Both charged but the one against the BSS had a very bad overwatch round and lost 2 of them to fire. The remaining warp spider squad shot and charged the BSS that removed their warp spider buddies and lost a couple to overwatch as well (causing them to fail their charge)
At this point he decided that he had enough. I do not believe that his situation was dire at this point, but he was physically exhausted and I had field position on him. The mission was 'big guns never tire' and it would have been interesting if I could keep my exorcists alive to secure the objectives. My guess is Coteaz's squad would have started to eat through the vibro cannons securing his objective next turn and I was still convinced I could clear up the rest of his troops so long as the combat didn't go tragically wrong. The Dominion girl was going to die, but at least that means I could shoot his bikes.
All and all it was a fun day. Won the tourney, but more importantly had 3 decent games that gave me the chance to test out the new books. I clearly need to complete my melta collection and I still think that having a couple immolators with heavy flamers could be very useful. I'm trying to decide if I go with the heavy flamer it'll be on the scouts. The 6" mobility is terrible, but at least with scouting or outflanking I have a better chance to torch once. ADL's are fast becoming my favorite enemy purchase.
As the opponent in question, that's a pretty fair assessment of the second game.
The main reason I said I pretty much lost the game in deployment was the fact that every weapon I had except the serpent shield on the wave serpents ended up out of range in turn 1. So that cost me the ability to shoot with a total of 7 bright lances and 5 scatter lasers (including the ones in the serpent).
I played a game Saturday, Orks/Sisters vs GK/Nids. Yes. That happened.
Jacobus, 3 priests, and 17 sisters. 9 were killed top of turn 1.
Bottom of turn 1. They kill a DreadKnight in assault.
Bottom of turn 2. They charge Crowe and a Trygon.
Bottom of 3, Jacco and crew are dead, but the Trygon was at 1 wound, and Crowe was at 1 wound.
Granted, that was a really odd combination to fight, but i was pleased with the results.
Also, what firing arc do you guys generally use with your exorcists? 360? 180? 45?
As far as i know, it was FAQd in 3ed to 360, and hasn't been denoted since.
Shandara wrote: I always get queasy when I see cases like that with models in them, although I'm sure it's safe!
The trays are magnetic sheeting and each model has a magnet or washer on the bottom. If you shake it, they'll fall but if you just carry it they stay standing through normal bumping and such. It makes play so much easier because you don't have to get them out of the foam, etc so on. you just pull a tray out and deploy.
For plastic models, I can hold the tray sideways and they won't fall off. For metal, it's about a 45 degree angle before things get dicey.
I am working on that right now. For the test rhino, I put magnets on the inside edge of the tracks. That was enough.
For the exorcist, however... I'm still working on how I'm going to keep that one in place. I was able to get it to stay put with 4 of the larger magnets I have but I'm experimenting with others. I will have to separately magnetize the turret. I have never glued mine down because I like it to be removable. I will probably just magnetize it and have it stick directly to the tray. That also cuts down on height, which you can see in the pic I posted.
The bastion/firestorm are actually really easy since they are just plastic. And my bastion is actually magnetized itself (you can pull it into two pieces to break it down).
Is it the tray that is magnetized, or the models? If its the tray, large steel washers placed inside tanks on the bottom are better than small magnets on the treads.
jeffersonian000 wrote: Is it the tray that is magnetized, or the models? If its the tray, large steel washers placed inside tanks on the bottom are better than small magnets on the treads.
SJ
The tray itself is magnetized. I have tried large steel washers (it is what I use for my models themselves) for the tanks and they work, but you need four and they need to be touching the tray to be effective for the exorcist. So far, I haven't found a good way of handling it without the magnets (they seem to work the best). Four heavy magnets on the tracks, that is.
Yeah leaving the turret and cockpit off th exorcist is he wayto go, allows for an extra rhino/immo if not taking an exorcist (although I'm not sure I've ever needed an extra transports over an exorcist. Have you go pics of how your bastion is magnetised? I've got one on my hobby table to build and being able to break it down would be useful. Cheers.
So I was on their website and I want to clarify something - is the case all that you need? I saw small unit trays and need to know if they are unnecessary or if it is an additional cost.
Inigo Montoya wrote: So I was on their website and I want to clarify something - is the case all that you need? I saw small unit trays and need to know if they are unnecessary or if it is an additional cost.
That is an additional cost.
The case comes with four empty trays. Each empty tray fits three unit trays, etc.
I went with the diorama trays (one per tray) and then put my own magnetic sheeting on them so as to save on magnets (and because I bought it thinking it had a tin sheet and it didn't). Their unit tray way of doing things is more secure than mine because it helps keep the mini from moving. Mine is cheaper since I use washers rather than magnets to secure the majority of my minis.
edit: If you are planning real travel, I would highly suggest getting the unit trays and such from them. I only travel locally so I like my method better.
Or you could just play like me & my Brit friends in my year in the UK, when I first discovered Warhammer: make a bunch of icons in MS Paint, copy and paste a sheet of 'em, print 'em out, glue them to backing made from cut-up Corn Flakes boxes, and cut 'em out. Then you can just carry 'em around in ziplock bags.
Ah yes, so much time spent to save sooooo much money.
No, we didn't play in any tournaments, how'd you guess?
war wrote: Had my first tourney with the new books this past weekend. Little one at the local shop, here's the summery
My list was briefly:
Uriah
Coteaz (Codex: I)
Ordo Heretics with psyocculm, 3 skulls (Codex: I)
3 BSS squads in MM immolators
1 henchmen squad with plasma cannons, a couple psykers, a DCA and a crusader
1 henchmen squad in a chimera with a psyker, bolter and 3 plasma guns
3 dominion with as many melta as I had in my collection, so 3+ combi, 3+ combi, 2+ combi. All riding in MM immos
3 exorcists
How did the psyocculm Inquisitor do? I'm thinking of him in a 20 person blob or 4x plasma cannon devastator squad ally. BS 10 doesn't scatter vary far if shooting a psychic, and there are a few of them out there today.
SisterSydney wrote: Or you could just play like me & my Brit friends in my year in the UK, when I first discovered Warhammer: make a bunch of icons in MS Paint, copy and paste a sheet of 'em, print 'em out, glue them to backing made from cut-up Corn Flakes boxes, and cut 'em out. Then you can just carry 'em around in ziplock bags.
Ah yes, so much time spent to save sooooo much money.
No, we didn't play in any tournaments, how'd you guess?
Good way to try out new units without going to the expense of buying them or the confusion of proxying.
war wrote: Had my first tourney with the new books this past weekend. Little one at the local shop, here's the summery
My list was briefly:
Uriah
Coteaz (Codex: I)
Ordo Heretics with psyocculm, 3 skulls (Codex: I)
3 BSS squads in MM immolators
1 henchmen squad with plasma cannons, a couple psykers, a DCA and a crusader
1 henchmen squad in a chimera with a psyker, bolter and 3 plasma guns
3 dominion with as many melta as I had in my collection, so 3+ combi, 3+ combi, 2+ combi. All riding in MM immos
3 exorcists
How did the psyocculm Inquisitor do? I'm thinking of him in a 20 person blob or 4x plasma cannon devastator squad ally. BS 10 doesn't scatter vary far if shooting a psychic, and there are a few of them out there today.
How many plasma cannons would you normally use in a setup like this?
toocool61 wrote: Quick question. I'd like to hear how exorcists and dominions are doing for everyone so far.
Exorcists are still awesome, adding a third one made a surprising amount of difference (for the better). I am having a hard time justifying dominions now. On paper/in theory they seemed AMAZING with ignore cover, but they rarely (i.e., never) seem worth their points these days. I find myself wanting to go second more and more, so scout is usually out - and there is so much interceptor flying around that outflanking is even more of a crapshoot. Exorcists are better MC killers by far, and allied guard with a manticore/vendetta seems to be better at tank hunting - so I am at a loss on what to do with my suicide gals.
toocool61 wrote: Quick question. I'd like to hear how exorcists and dominions are doing for everyone so far.
I can never get my Exorcists to do anything useful. They die too quickly, even from Reserves.
My Dominions, however, are another story. They are quite possibly my favorite unit in the new Codex. I like to think of them as an easy button of sorts; whatever vehicle I want gone, they make gone.
They're good at sniping small squads of powerful units, too.
toocool61 wrote: Quick question. I'd like to hear how exorcists and dominions are doing for everyone so far.
I can never get my Exorcists to do anything useful. They die too quickly, even from Reserves.
My Dominions, however, are another story. They are quite possibly my favorite unit in the new Codex. I like to think of them as an easy button of sorts; whatever vehicle I want gone, they make gone.
They're good at sniping small squads of powerful units, too.
Why, in the Emperor's name, would you reserve your exorcists? Use forts to give them a 3+ save and blaze away.
war wrote: Had my first tourney with the new books this past weekend. Little one at the local shop, here's the summery
My list was briefly:
Uriah
Coteaz (Codex: I)
Ordo Heretics with psyocculm, 3 skulls (Codex: I)
3 BSS squads in MM immolators
1 henchmen squad with plasma cannons, a couple psykers, a DCA and a crusader
1 henchmen squad in a chimera with a psyker, bolter and 3 plasma guns
3 dominion with as many melta as I had in my collection, so 3+ combi, 3+ combi, 2+ combi. All riding in MM immos
3 exorcists
How did the psyocculm Inquisitor do? I'm thinking of him in a 20 person blob or 4x plasma cannon devastator squad ally. BS 10 doesn't scatter vary far if shooting a psychic, and there are a few of them out there today.
How many plasma cannons would you normally use in a setup like this?
Usually I get 3 plasma cannons. With divination in the unit its silly how much damage it causes from the backfield. add psykers to taste.
the psyocculm was meaningless against the tau, but a lot of fun against the eldar. I mentioned to the 2nd eldar player that it was in there, then rolled the 6 plasma shots. 2 2's and a 1 came up and I said "look at that, 5 hits and a re-roll" He said something along the lines of "hold on a sec, your BS 5?" , nope, BS10. I liked the investment.
So if I decide not to bring Coteaz I may go with 2 ordo heretic inquistors with psyoc's and maybe make them divination psykers. I like 2 settups so far
Settup 1:
3 plasma cannon servitors, 2 or so psykers and crusaders or acolytes based on what points i have left. Plasma acolytes are a favorite because they chew through deep strikers better than most things. Add the psyker inquisitor with a psyoc and you have divination to make the plasma re-roll 1's (unless your up against grey knights, in which case you can take whatever you get on the roll because you'll be BS10 all game anyway)
Settup 2:
3 plasma henchmen, up to 5 psykers, and a bolter henchmen in a chimera. I used a psyoc inquistior in the tourney and this settup worked well. Basically shoot out the windows until your chimera gets blown to oblivion then find cover whenever possible. I've been kicking around the idea of putting a single demonhost in there as well. its only 10 points and 1/3 of the time you'll get a decent shooting weapon out of it. You have 5 windows and I like using them all as best as I can.
With the 2nd settup you can get (at 12") 6 S7 ap2, 1 large blast at s7 ap2, and at least 2 s4 ap5 and maybe a s4 ap3 blast, or s8 ap4 shot. I would just avoid anything with 'heavy' in the name when making this unit because it'll almost always be on the move.
As for the other question about exorcists and dominion, here's my experience with them.
Together they are AWSOME!!!!! If you get the first turn on the normal board (setting up on the long sides) you can scout ahead and be in the enemies face with a TON of melta. I've killed wraithknights and riptides with contemptible ease due to shear weight of s8ap1 firepower. Even if you are against a hord type of army your still not doomed because there is almost always 1 enemy unit that NEEDS to lose models or has a character that should die. The only thing that is safe from 15 s8 ap1 ignore cover shots + 3d6 s8ap1 normal shots is the screamer star. If your playing against someone who's doing that, then roshambo them.
My normal tactic in most of the recent games i've played is to use the dominion like they are meant to be used. Throw them forward with large targets on their armor and have them make some serious waves. If the enemy is shooting at them then your BSS SCORING units are totally safe. I'm ok with losing things that can't help me win as long as they do their job first.
Automatically Appended Next Post: btw. My theory of defense is the severe reduction of enemy shots. I know of only one way to accomplish this goal.
toocool61 wrote: Quick question. I'd like to hear how exorcists and dominions are doing for everyone so far.
I can never get my Exorcists to do anything useful. They die too quickly, even from Reserves.
My Dominions, however, are another story. They are quite possibly my favorite unit in the new Codex. I like to think of them as an easy button of sorts; whatever vehicle I want gone, they make gone.
They're good at sniping small squads of powerful units, too.
Why, in the Emperor's name, would you reserve your exorcists? Use forts to give them a 3+ save and blaze away.
Our group only gives a 4+ for Fortifications, and the way I roll it doesn't matter anyway; my Exorcists are pretty much guaranteed to A) Do nothing of use, and B) Die during my opponent's next phase.
At least my Avenger kills something before getting blown out of the sky. Usually.
Red hunters let me put the chapter master in the blob to tank for them, and once per game will let me give the unit monster hunter/tank hunter. Prescience should make the plasma guns much more reliable.
The other combination:
12 inch scout rather than 6, and a 5++ rerollable save on the seraphim.
Chapter Master, bike, artificer armour, power fist, shield eternal
Jacobus
Priest, plasma gun
Priest, plasma gun
Priest, plasma gun
Priest, plasma gun
Priest, plasma gun, litanies of faith
10 Seraphim, 2x2 hand flamers
Coteaz
Inquisitor, level 1 hammerhand, rad, psychotrokes, combi plasma, power armour, liber hereitcus, 3 servo skulls.
The last combination (which is SM/Sisters)
Chapter Master, bike, artificer armour, power fist, shield eternal
Librarian, bike, level 2
Celestine
Priest, plasma gun
Priest, plasma gun
Priest, plasma gun
Priest, plasma gun
Priest, plasma gun, litanies of faith
6 Centurions, 6 grav cannons
Coteaz
Inquisitor, level 1 hammerhand, rad, psychotrokes, combi plasma, power armour, liber hereitcus, 3 servo skulls.
Jpr wrote: I'm looking at building the biggest/best deathstar with Sisters/SM or SM/Sisters using the Red Hunters chapter tactics and Inquisitor Allies.
My thoughts at the moment:
Chapter Master, bike, artificer armour, power fist, shield eternal
Celestine
Jacobus
Priest, plasma gun [repeat ad infinitum]
That's an awful lot of models with plasma guns and one wound... can you really re-roll all those guys out of trying themselves?
Jpr wrote: Red hunters let me put the chapter master in the blob to tank for them, and once per game will let me give the unit monster hunter/tank hunter. Prescience should make the plasma guns much more reliable.
If your blob moves, the chapter master gets jink and your opponent can focus fire to avoid him taking wounds.
Played a few turns of a fun game last night. I made some terrible decisions an lost on secondaries. Melta doms didn't get a shot off but did secure me Line breaker, as I scouted them into towards the far corner. Seraphim scored something like 22 wounds against a tac squad that dropped in, who then failed 7 of them. I forgave his not doing his LOS so the blob could charge in and have a herohammer style duel, if I hadn't done that I would've scraped a draw, but I was expecting the game to go on longer and allow me to secure the relic. Never mind though as it was only a friendly. I was running 4 rhino chasies with loud hailers but only needed to utilise them once, it's nice having them dotted around for if you need them but they're pretty pricecy at 10pts each, so I'm still unsure of how many I should take...
The jaco blob with priests is fun, certainly gonna be running it for a while.
Inquisitors are Battle Brothers to all imperiums. They however don't make Sisters battle brothers to normal space marines, thus preventing their characters from joining each other's squads.
However if we go at this in the following way:
Inquisitor joins squad of 20 sisters since they are battle brothers.
Space marine character now joins the inquisitor. They are battle brothers and nothing seems to indicate that because the inquisitor is joined to the sisters that battle brother goes away between him and the space marines.
Anyone's thoughts on this?
One step further, join a librarian to the blob of sisters by attaching to the Inquisitor. Cast invisibility on the inquisitor so the whole unit gets affected. Legal?
Voldrak wrote: Small rules question more than tactics.
Inquisitors are Battle Brothers to all imperiums. They however don't make Sisters battle brothers to normal space marines, thus preventing their characters from joining each other's squads.
However if we go at this in the following way:
Inquisitor joins squad of 20 sisters since they are battle brothers.
Space marine character now joins the inquisitor. They are battle brothers and nothing seems to indicate that because the inquisitor is joined to the sisters that battle brother goes away between him and the space marines.
Anyone's thoughts on this?
One step further, join a librarian to the blob of sisters by attaching to the Inquisitor. Cast invisibility on the inquisitor so the whole unit gets affected. Legal?
Yeah, this is a huge mess right now, adding in a third detachment for allies absolutely seems like something the original BRB writers had not considered.
Rather than rehashing the YMDC debate here, I would just note that it is far from clear either way and recommend you talk to your opponents and/or TO before any game starts.
Jpr wrote: Red hunters let me put the chapter master in the blob to tank for them, and once per game will let me give the unit monster hunter/tank hunter. Prescience should make the plasma guns much more reliable.
If your blob moves, the chapter master gets jink and your opponent can focus fire to avoid him taking wounds.
Okay thats my mistake, I knew that just forgot to change it!
Maybe I was going a bit crazy..
Anyway is this more reasonable?
Chapter master (red hunters), power fist, shield eternal, artificer armour, jump pack-240
20 Sisters-240
Celestine-135
Priestx5, 1x litanies-150
Coteaz-100
Inquisitor, hammerhand, rad grenade, liber hereticus-85
After playing with this blob list ( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/564119.page) for the past 3 weeks or so, I have mixed feelings about the blob itself. It does well when (or if) it can get into melee, but once most opponents see what the blob does they just stay away from it. Celestine can go out and do some damage on her own due to being Jump, but the blob has to play catch up. It is a strong objective holder, but so is any unit that costs upward of 350 points. In addition, I have noticed that shooting MEQ long-range with Exorcists is a waste of shots as usually the opponent gets cover (Long Fangs) or are Bikes (Scars) with inherent cover.
So in keeping with my love of tanks, and getting ready as we approach the new Imperial Guard Codex early next year, I decided to ally in some Imperial Guard to my main Sister's force. I have taken out the blob and supporting characters, and replaced it with a Vet+Chimera squad, Command Squad, and Colossus artillery (new list here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/566434.page).
I have seen a lot of love for Red Hunters, which is cool as we now have access to SM as Battle Brothers, but by the time we pay for the requisite Inquisitorial HQ and then the SMHQ, we are in over 150 points if we give them any tools at all. Then we start adding the SM toys. I consider that Guard have better options at less cost and IMO are a better fit with Sisters.
I think I'd agree with that. Sisters and guard work better in the fluff and also are decent on the tabletop. I've tried working with the numbers on SM's and I just can't get a configuration that I like. I'll still work the the numbers, but i'm not as hopeful any longer.
Exorcists are TEQ killers and MC hunters. Their ideal targets are things that are more expensive than basic SM's. Sometimes you don't get that option and must fire at less-than-desirable targets. even then you may pick off a character or something, so its not like its a total loss.
war wrote: Exorcists are TEQ killers and MC hunters. Their ideal targets are things that are more expensive than basic SM's. Sometimes you don't get that option and must fire at less-than-desirable targets. even then you may pick off a character or something, so its not like its a total loss.
With my new list, the Exorcists will deal with 2+ saves (MCs / Terminators / Centurions) while the Colossus can wipe out MEQ units hiding out back (Long Fangs) or riding bikes (Scars). The Colossus helps take the pressure from my Exorcists in trying to take out those types of targets.
Not a fan of double FOC, but... Not enough bodies, scoring or otherwise.
I have to agree whole-heartedly. Doesn't matter that your squads of 5 bbs are fearless, they're still super easier to kill. I don't think this list would do very wellbin objective games.
Well, it looks fun. If you go up against the right army, they will start crying as you deploy and they won't stop until the game ends. But honestly, the right army is a pretty small subset of all possible armies - small elite armies paying a high cost for resilience to small arms fire. Most armies will be able to beat you at the troops on the ground game, and weather the damage the exorcists are doing. 6d6 shots are still only 6d6 shots, no matter how amazing that shot is.
But if you have the models, I imagine it could be a good bit of fun to throw down now and then.
It would suffer greatly against any army that was horde or even horde-ish. Sisters just dont put out enough shots to do the damage vs those kinds of armies unless they bring HF/F or H Bolters (my personal favorite) en masse. This is in addition to whats already been said about not putting enough boots on the ground.
That being said, this list would completely smash a list like elite grey knights or some other low model/high value list.
6 Exorcists
21 Shots, 42/3 Hit, 210/18 wound, 420/54 through 5+ invul. ~7.77 wounds through invuls.
That's two right there.
6 TL-MM Immos
6 Shots, 48/9 hit, 240/27 wound, 480/81 through 5+ invul. ~5.92 That's another one right there.
Pop out a dominion and you're done. That ignores storm bolters which put out another 12 shots, 24/3 hit, 24/18 wound, 24/128 wound which rounds out one of those fractions.
Shandara wrote: Well that's assuming he doesn't kill a few of your units first
You asked the question, I gave you the answer. 2+ saves are not something to worry about.
Well of course a list absolutely chock-full of S8AP1 won't have trouble with high-toughness, low-armour save, multi-wound models (e.g. Dreadknights). That's rather the goal of such weapons.
The potential problem will probably be horde (as others have previously mentioned) and/or lists that can find your tasty Exorcist-heavy back line and surprise or nom them in assault (drop pods?). I was thinking a highly shooty, Russ or Vendetta-heavy IG lists would be a bit of a pain, but they'd probably still have a hard time dealing with all that melta.
Probably be quite effective, if perhaps a little boring to play.
OutlawBandit wrote: How do you guys feel about the new dataslates that are being released? Anything stand out as a perfect addition?
Link please! Thanks.
Digital Editions are doing a release every day until Christmas.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/2013-advent Doesn't look like there'll be anything for us specifically, though. Perhaps some useful ally material.
What kind of Formation would you form for the Sisters? I'd love to see an Exorcist wing where they could get a choice of Skyfire or even get a Large blast barrage off, all at STR8 AP1 of course
Would be nice to see one that put a bunch of Penitent Engines in front of Repentia. Boosted their Faith save or gave them all +3 move, fleet, shrouded. Something that made them somehow worth taking.
Celestians, new write up for hand flamers, storm shields, power mauls. Just a personal favorite of mine anyways.
Something to fix the worst units in the Dex. Missed opportunities with these units IMO.
dracpanzer wrote: Would be nice to see one that put a bunch of Penitent Engines in front of Repentia. Boosted their Faith save or gave them all +3 move, fleet, shrouded. Something that made them somehow worth taking.
Celestians, new write up for hand flamers, storm shields, power mauls. Just a personal favorite of mine anyways.
Something to fix the worst units in the Dex. Missed opportunities with these units IMO.
Something like:
Righteous Zeal:
3+ Units of Repentia, 3+ units of Penitent Engines
All Repentia in the formation gain Feel No Pain.
All Penitent Engines gain It Will Not Die.
All models in the formation may run then assault.
that?
Ovion wrote: No hardback yet.
Only really ebook atm.
You can always print it though.
That'll be the plan then, guess I'm slipping into work late one of these nights. Same with the inquisition dex, wasnt even aware black library did codexes until today.
Ovion wrote: Something like:
Righteous Zeal:
3+ Units of Repentia, 3+ units of Penitent Engines
All Repentia in the formation gain Feel No Pain.
All Penitent Engines gain It Will Not Die.
All models in the formation may run then assault.
that?
Yes, exactly that. Unless you wanted to give them shrouded as well. The Emperor Protects!
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in Rhino BSS (20) with HF/Flamer
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in Rhino (Laud)
Exorcist Exorcist Exorcist Bastion with Quad-Gun
Coteaz Hereticus (Psyker, 1x Servo Skull) Henchman (8 Acolytes, 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors) Henchman (5 Acolytes, 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors), Chimera with Psybolt and Heavy Bolter
Managed to pull out a Nova Tie (My 12- to his 13) (He had FB, I had Linebreaker. No warlords.) He was brutalized but I just couldn't get the last wave serpent or his jetseer. I had Jacobus, an Exorcist, 2x 5 girl Battle Sister Squad, Bastion, Henchman with Inq inside bastion. Maybe something else. It was a bloodbath, but doable.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was too conservative with the blob, which was my main problem. It needs to be into hand to hand, not sitting around looking pretty.
I was too conservative with the blob, which was my main problem. It needs to be into hand to hand, not sitting around looking pretty.
I've noticed that about Sisters in general. We are very much a close range shooting army, and when you forget that and play defensively or too passively, you're usually screwed (especially against other close range shooting armies.)
Inq even more so, because they seem largely assault based, depending on what henchmen you bring (I prefer psykers, weaponsmiths, and acolytes in power armor with plasma guns.)
Hoitash wrote: I got to have a SoB/Inquisition army this weekend against some IG.
I. Love. Land Raiders.
I do think I'm gonna start switching the quad gun on the ADL with the cannon. One S9 shot might beat the S7 shots of the quad gun.
Also Valkyries for Henchmen, cuz when I need air support, I NEED air support (my ASF is more an anti-tank flyer.)
For the aegis , the quad gun blows the cannon out of the water. The only time the lascannon is better is vs AV14. Otherwise, 4 twin-linked Str7 shots beats 1 Str9 shot.
Hoitash wrote: I got to have a SoB/Inquisition army this weekend against some IG.
I. Love. Land Raiders.
I do think I'm gonna start switching the quad gun on the ADL with the cannon. One S9 shot might beat the S7 shots of the quad gun.
Also Valkyries for Henchmen, cuz when I need air support, I NEED air support (my ASF is more an anti-tank flyer.)
For the aegis , the quad gun blows the cannon out of the water.
The [i]only [/i ]time the lascannon is better is vs AV14.
Otherwise, 4 [i]twin-linked[/i ] Str7 shots beats 1 Str9 shot.
I guess the question is, do I want to maybe glance the enemy flyer, or almost definitely pen the enemy flyer?
Ignoring jink saves and other shenanigans (I'm looking at you, Remora drones.)
Cuz I fired the quad at two Vendetta's and all I did was glance them. Then the ADL was overrun by a horde of conscripts.
If we hadn't of ended at Turn 3, odds were good those 3 Vendettas were gonna murderize my entire army, because by then my AA was my twin-linked multi-meltas.
been messing around with sisters on paper... here is what i currently am thinking.. its different than what I originally was thinking
HQ cannoness, combi flamer
HQ cannoness, book, combi flamer
HQ 5 celestians command squad with 5 heavy bolters
HQ 5 celestians command squad with 5 heavy bolters
Troops 5 sisters in a rhino with 2 meltas
Troops 5 sisters in a rhino with 2 meltas
Troops 5 sisters in a rhino with 2 meltas
Troops 5 sisters in a rhino with 2 meltas
Fast 5 dominions 3 meltas, Dozer MM immolator
Heavy exorcist
Heavy exorcist
Heavy exorcist
HQ Coteaz
Troops 3 plasma cannon servitors
Troops 3 acolytes with boltguns
Elite Vindicare assasin
Fort bastion with quad gun
Its 1850, with an answer to screamer star... the vindicare on the quad gun should kill the grimoire in 1 volley by the math...
Seer council is a tougher nut to crack... but with some luck you can use the vindicare toolbox from inside the bastion to kill of the invulnerable save of "the baron" by allocating a wound to him with shield breaker... but this requires a lot more finesse to pull of since you'd have to lock him down afterwards....
Still don't see a very good answer for jet seer council with this book as primary... but at least its possible with some luck
could try a storm raven from GKs as allies... dropping the vindicare and the plasma cannon squad for the points? Then add a banisher to the accolyte unit and keep it close to the screamers inside the storm raven to make up for the new weakness vs screamer star?
Hoitash wrote: I got to have a SoB/Inquisition army this weekend against some IG.
I. Love. Land Raiders.
I do think I'm gonna start switching the quad gun on the ADL with the cannon. One S9 shot might beat the S7 shots of the quad gun.
Also Valkyries for Henchmen, cuz when I need air support, I NEED air support (my ASF is more an anti-tank flyer.)
For the aegis , the quad gun blows the cannon out of the water. The [i]only [/i ]time the lascannon is better is vs AV14. Otherwise, 4 [i]twin-linked[/i ] Str7 shots beats 1 Str9 shot.
I guess the question is, do I want to maybe glance the enemy flyer, or almost definitely pen the enemy flyer?
Ignoring jink saves and other shenanigans (I'm looking at you, Remora drones.)
Cuz I fired the quad at two Vendetta's and all I did was glance them. Then the ADL was overrun by a horde of conscripts.
If we hadn't of ended at Turn 3, odds were good those 3 Vendettas were gonna murderize my entire army, because by then my AA was my twin-linked multi-meltas.
I've just never had good luck with the quad gun.
Going by the math, an Icarus at BS3 should hit 1/2 of the time. That means each time you fire, you should make 0.5 hits. Against AV12, that'll Glance on a 3, and pen on a 4+, so in turn, each time you fire you should cause 0.33 Glance+s (or 0.25 pens). It has a 1/3 chance of exploding, meaning each Lascannon shot fired will cause 0.083 explodes results, or a 1 in 12.5 chance to destroy it.
In turn, a Quadgun with BS3, should hit with 3 shots, glance on a 5+ and pen on a 6, meaning 1 glance+ (or a 0.5 chance of a pen). It has a 1/6 chance of exploding, meaning each time you fire the Quadgun, it will cause 0.083 explodes results, or a 1 in 12.5 chance to destroy it.
So it'll do more glances, more pens on average, and the same ammount of Explode.
Ultimately... neither is especially great by the numbers...
Does anyone else think that Sisters are well placed to be a decent anti-superheavy army in spite of the fact that they lack one of their own?
3 Dom squads full up with Meltas in MM immolators along with 3 Exorcists seem like they could ruin the day of most Superheavies, at least the ones that I know about. (I don't know how the Eldar Holo-something works, and there is that all round av14 one that ignores melta, but other than that...)
Curious what the SoB community thinks. Are grey knights better allies or space wolves? Thinking something like Cortez plasma cannon servitors, 3 henchman in storm raven and dread knight with all the goodies or, 2 rune priests 8 grey hunters, drop pod and whirl wind with the addition of another small group of sisters for more scoring. Thoughts?
Two scouting Priest/
).
to bring, especially since it allows my girls a better chance to position themselves to brace against the alpha strike, especially if going second.
ha-ha immobilized" so I love my reroll.
