I need to figure out my 1850 list. However I have had success so far in a few games with the following 2000 list

DBC
Retaliation Cadre
Fusion Blade Commander, warscaper drone
Riptide, Ion, Fusion, Stim
x3 Crisis, 6 plasma rifles
2x3 Crisis, 6 burst cannons
x3 Broadsides, 2 HYMP, 1 Rail, 3 plasma, 2 target locks

Air Superiority
3x Razersharks, misslepods

Allies
OSC
x2 Ghostkeel, CIR, Fusion, EWO
2x3 stealth suits, 'vre, homing beacon

Believe it or not, the d3 markerlights is really all that I need. Having BS4 on deepstrike essentially grants me 4 free markerlight hits. The OSC getting +1 and ignore cover is another possible 9 markerlights used. I realize Tau flyers are not the best, but I have to say, when 3 come flying on at the same time get bs4 against other flyers they can really do some damage. Combo'd with DBC Doom, I have taken out SH flyers with ease, usually only needing 2/3 flyers to do so.

All in all, my turn 2 reserve strike usually takes out about 5-6 enemy units, really putting the hurt down on them by crippling their backbone.

Ive always had issues fielding 1850pt lists. It always feels like i got ~100pts of random crap because i dont quite have enough for a legit purchase lol.

And i have to admit im tempted to get some razorsharks because of that formation. The codex one is trash, basically all it does is give them a free pointless upgrade nobody ever looks at anyway, but the DBC one is pretty mean sounding.

The razorshark statline never bugged me technically, its the cost for said statline. That formation feels like they gave them just enough to justify the cost.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Ive always had issues fielding 1850pt lists. It always feels like i got ~100pts of random crap because i dont quite have enough for a legit purchase lol.

And i have to admit im tempted to get some razorsharks because of that formation. The codex one is trash, basically all it does is give them a free pointless upgrade nobody ever looks at anyway, but the DBC one is pretty mean sounding.

The razorshark statline never bugged me technically, its the cost for said statline. That formation feels like they gave them just enough to justify the cost.

Pretty much every flyer in the game is roughly ~150 points. (stormtalon being stupidly cheap for what it is, and ravens/wolfy's being higher priced)

That said, I never hated the tau fighter. Its not something that is gonna change the game like the crimson hunter, but there are some really strong things it can do that most other flyers cannot. First and foremost being its turret mounted guns. There are very few flyers in the game that can fire from any position, and this makes Tau flyers great. You can position your flyer in a safer fly zone and still be able to target what you need. Against ground targets with some markerlight support your seeker missiles don't need to be in your firing arc which also adds to this.

The one downside of the tau flyers was their weaker BS. But the formation helps you with that allowing them to clear airspace a little easier. The d3 markerlights I personally would use first on whatever flyers I want dead that turn, that way you can get some much needed seeker missiles firing at BS5 and/or ignore cover. Six s7 shots is enough to take out the majority of flyers in the game and adding two s8 missiles pretty much ensures that.

I am a fan! I am going to keep using it. Plus you have that total look on your opponents face when he knew he was playing tau and didn't bring any AA because Tau's flyers were never that good!

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
No because you must end the piranhas movement... then disembark. Cant move flat out when you embark OR disembark,. So the Piranha has to drop, then move. Then it moves, then drops.

So effectively you're on the board every other round. And in rounds you are on, you obviously don't generate new drones.

Yeah sorry you are wrong again. The piranhas can come on the board, drop off their drones, and exit the same turn they arrived. This has been discussed many times and you 100% cannot argue against it.

How are you leaving the "same round you came on" plus disembarking without moving flat out? You cant. That's not even allowed by rule. You dont disembark in the middle of your move (unless you're a Tau Bomber or have Grav cute insertion that specifies it).

It's absurd. I know what you're trying to argue for, but just no. I play Tau Empire and I want them to be cool as much as the next guy but... You're definitely stretching it.

Rofl yeah there is that bit. I get that response when i field the Coldstar Commander. He has yet to die because nobody brings AA against me, and the few times hes grounded he passes his 4+ invul and just takes off again. Hes not amazing but hes hilariously annoying to the opponent, especially if they got AV10 rear armor vehicles around.

 Jancoran wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
No because you must end the piranhas movement... then disembark. Cant move flat out when you embark OR disembark,. So the Piranha has to drop, then move. Then it moves, then drops.

So effectively you're on the board every other round. And in rounds you are on, you obviously don't generate new drones.

Yeah sorry you are wrong again. The piranhas can come on the board, drop off their drones, and exit the same turn they arrived. This has been discussed many times and you 100% cannot argue against it.

How are you leaving the "same round you came on" plus disembarking without moving flat out? You cant. That's not even allowed by rule. You dont disembark in the middle of your move (unless you're a Tau Bomber or have Grav cute insertion that specifies it).

It's absurd. I know what you're trying to argue for, but just no. I play Tau Empire and I want them to be cool as much as the next guy but... You're definitely stretching it.

There are about 3 threads in the "you make the call" section talking about this, so I would refer you to give them a read.

TLDR: Formation says at the end of movement phase (different from end of movement), ANY remaining piranha within 6" of the table edge may enter ongoing reserves. Effectively, you drop your drones, and end your movement phase within 6" and you just *poof* into reserves. There is no restriction from the BRB except for flyers in regards to entering reserves on the same turn they come in. Also, ongoing reserves do not reroll to come back they just do.

 Jancoran wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
No because you must end the piranhas movement... then disembark. Cant move flat out when you embark OR disembark,. So the Piranha has to drop, then move. Then it moves, then drops.

So effectively you're on the board every other round. And in rounds you are on, you obviously don't generate new drones.

Yeah sorry you are wrong again. The piranhas can come on the board, drop off their drones, and exit the same turn they arrived. This has been discussed many times and you 100% cannot argue against it.

How are you leaving the "same round you came on" plus disembarking without moving flat out? You cant. That's not even allowed by rule. You dont disembark in the middle of your move (unless you're a Tau Bomber or have Grav cute insertion that specifies it).

It's absurd. I know what you're trying to argue for, but just no. I play Tau Empire and I want them to be cool as much as the next guy but... You're definitely stretching it.

Please read the actual rules or other threads on this topic before you start saying random stuff lol

I will read most carefully tonight when its in front of me.

 Jancoran wrote:
I will read most carefully tonight when its in front of me.

There is nothing about moving flat out so I do not know why you keep brining it up. One of the extra rules for the formation is if all of the piranhas are withing 6" of the board edge at the end of the movement phase, they can simply leave the board and enter ongoing reserves. That means they auto come in next turn within 6" of the table edge at the beginning of the movement phase. They can then release their drones during the movement phase, and re-exit the board at the end of the movement phase into ongoing reserves. Rinse and Repeat.

I will read most carefully tonight when it's in front of me.

 Jancoran wrote:
I will read most carefully tonight when it's in front of me.

That sounds like it would have been the thing to do before arguing about it, right?

 redthirst wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I will read most carefully tonight when it's in front of me.

That sounds like it would have been the thing to do before arguing about it, right?

It's not the first time that someone has read a rule one way and thought they understood it. Seems to be a common theme with this Tau codex and the associated formations.

I think CAD with one stormsurge plus drone net and OSC is going to be the way I go. Riptide wing is really nice and all, and TBH if I wanted to win a GT I would probably take an OSC plus drone net plus 4 or 5 riptides. But as fun as mega tau robots are....pass. Seriously also considering a hunter cadre with two OSCs and a drone net

I think in general people really are underestimating the strength of the DBC. a free doom is simply amazing..

 Grizzyzz wrote:
I think in general people really are underestimating the strength of the DBC. a free doom is simply amazing..

What is the DBC and free doom, as in the psychic power?

Razerous wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:
I think in general people really are underestimating the strength of the DBC. a free doom is simply amazing..

What is the DBC and free doom, as in the psychic power?

Dawn Blade Contingent out of Mont'ka, Detachment bonus is "on your opponents turn secretely select a unit, then on your turn gain reroll wounds/pens on that selected unit". Its extremely fluffy in that it only works turn 1 if you go 2nd, but overall i find it extremely useful.

Essentially it is the same as Eldar "doom" psychic power.

I would posit that improved to-hit *beats (I don't like the T word anymore...) improved to-wound.

Granted, it is a straight re-roll. However it is only vs. a single unit. Other formations directly improve BS, which isn't as good as a re-roll but still potent?

Its designed to take out priority units. Yes it loses value compared to flat out +1BS over time but until that deathstar is dead its vastly VASTLY more powerful than +1BS. Which once the star is dead, it has already outweighed any +1BS you could compare it to.

Unless you face someone that manages to never have a unit be higher value than another, the "Doom" will beat any +1BS rule.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
I think in general people really are underestimating the strength of the DBC. a free doom is simply amazing..

I really like the DBC and will play it most likely. That being said why does your Broadside unit have two target locks on the HYMP ones instead of one on the Rail Rifle?

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:
I think in general people really are underestimating the strength of the DBC. a free doom is simply amazing..

I really like the DBC and will play it most likely. That being said why does your Broadside unit have two target locks on the HYMP ones instead of one on the Rail Rifle?

So all three can shoot different targets, I would imagine. No need for a third Target Lock.

SJ

Some people like to fire their broadsides at three different units. Personally i'd rather dump it all on one unit, since majority of the time im not penning armor or i need high results to glance vehicles to death.

Eh, it just feels like you can run more Crisis Suits with double Missile Pods if you want that level of split fire, since even with a Target lock they're a bit cheaper.

Yes, you lose the Smart Missile Systems, but ultimately it just doesn't seems like you want that level of split fire. I get trying to work in a Railside for extra killing power on tanks, but it just feels like you're diluting the Missile Sides too much once you fire each one at a different target.

Tinkrr wrote: I really like the DBC and will play it most likely. That being said why does your Broadside unit have two target locks on the HYMP ones instead of one on the Rail Rifle?

Doesn't matter really which ones I have it on, in this case I want 2 TL so that I can possibly shoot 3 targets.

Tinkrr wrote:Eh, it just feels like you can run more Crisis Suits with double Missile Pods if you want that level of split fire, since even with a Target lock they're a bit cheaper.

Yes, you lose the Smart Missile Systems, but ultimately it just doesn't seems like you want that level of split fire. I get trying to work in a Railside for extra killing power on tanks, but it just feels like you're diluting the Missile Sides too much once you fire each one at a different target.

Me personally, I don't run the smart missiles on this squad, I run plasma rifles. Since your deepstriking your in close enough anyway.


Commenting to both.... I realize that splitting targets can dilute fire, but your twin linked BS4 on deepstrike... your gonna get most of your hits, and with proper placement your hitting rear armor on vehicles. Only bad luck dice will hurt you.

I run a fusion blade commander also with TL. If I get lucky and roll for tank hunter, this squad is devastating, splitfire or no.

For example.. one game against chaos... snapfired markerlights at a helldrake and scored 2 hits.

Missleside 1 shot at rear of defiler 1
Missleside 2 shot at rear of defiler 2
commander and rail shot at helldrake

wrecked all 3. Devastating blow to the chaos player. And in this situation, my plasma was not even in range for one of the defilers.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
In that same turn I used Doom on his bloodthirster and a squad of 3 dual plasma suits was able to deepstrike in and blow him away with ease. Same turn as the other kills, because my whole reserves comes in turn 2.

So what do you guys think of this list?
Farsight - Comp 1850 (1850pts)
Tau Empire: Codex (2015) (Tau Hunter Contingent)
Core
Hunter Cadre
Command
Commander
Drone Controller

Elite
1x XV104 Riptide Battlesuits
Early Warning Override, Ion Accelerator, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Crisis Shas'ui
Fusion Blaster, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
Crisis Shas'ui
Fusion Blaster, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
Crisis Shas'ui
Fusion Blaster, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

Fast Attack
Drones
6x MV7 Marker Drone

Pathfinder Team
5x Pathfinder

Heavy Support
KV128 Stormsurges
Early Warning Override, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, Twin-linked Flamer

TX7 Hammerhead Gunships
Ion Cannon, Longstrike, Twin-linked Smart Missile System

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits
2x MV8 Missile Drone
Early Warning Override, Seeker Missile, Twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Twin-linked Smart Missile System

Troops
Strike Team
5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle

Strike Team
5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle

Strike Team
5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle

Auxiliary
Optimized Stealth Cadre

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon
Stealth Shas'vre
Burst Cannon, Homing beacon

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon
Stealth Shas'vre
Burst Cannon, Homing beacon

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits
Ghostkeel Shas'vre
Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, Velocity Tracker

I might consider turning the pathfinders into a drone squad and dropping the second drone squad for a drone net formation from the Mont'ka book. Makes every drone so much better and I think you'll be a little light on markerlights once the pathfinders or drones die, even with the BS buff. You'd probably have to drop a crisis suit and an upgrade or two, but I think it's worth it to have your stormsurge have the markerlights it needs for the entire game (not to mention the Riptides and the rest of the army)

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't a Storm Surge a LoW not a heavy support?

Verviedi wrote:So what do you guys think of this list?
Farsight - Comp 1850 (1850pts)
Tau Empire: Codex (2015) (Tau Hunter Contingent)
Core
Hunter Cadre
Command
Commander
Drone Controller

Elite
1x XV104 Riptide Battlesuits
Early Warning Override, Ion Accelerator, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Crisis Shas'ui
Fusion Blaster, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
Crisis Shas'ui
Fusion Blaster, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
Crisis Shas'ui
Fusion Blaster, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

Fast Attack
Drones
6x MV7 Marker Drone

Pathfinder Team
5x Pathfinder

Heavy Support
KV128 Stormsurges
Early Warning Override, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, Twin-linked Flamer

TX7 Hammerhead Gunships
Ion Cannon, Longstrike, Twin-linked Smart Missile System

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits
2x MV8 Missile Drone
Early Warning Override, Seeker Missile, Twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Twin-linked Smart Missile System

Troops
Strike Team
5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle

Strike Team
5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle

Strike Team
5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle

Auxiliary
Optimized Stealth Cadre

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon
Stealth Shas'vre
Burst Cannon, Homing beacon

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon
Stealth Shas'vre
Burst Cannon, Homing beacon

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits
Ghostkeel Shas'vre
Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, Velocity Tracker

So how restricted are you model wise? I see many areas where you could save points and rearrange.

Crisis Team. Totally reasonable to go with dual fusion setup. However, keep in mind you have a stormsurge and OSC. That is a lot already to pop vehicles, oh and a riptide to boot. Maybe consider dual plasma rifle for an elite killing unit instead.

Crisis Team. If you must keep the dual fusion, save the points, just equip two fusion blasters. (rather then one TL and one not)

Broadside/Hammerhead. I like them, but what are you trying to do here? Mainly I think your list doesn't have a tactical focus. I wouldn't run 1 broadside and 1 hammerhead. Drop the hammer, and run a full missleside team, or since you have the surge already.. maybe get a 2nd ionhead instead.

Broadside. if you must keep a single broadside, I would drop the seeker missle. Its meh and doesn't add anything to your list you don't already have. Saves you points too.

Fast attack. Maybe run 3 squads of 4 marker drones so you can split them up more. Or run multiple pathfinder squads instead.

Fast attack. If your running Mark'O which I am lead to believe. Save the points and don't run the other pathfinder unit. Your going to be combining fire anyway.

If Col. dash is correct and you cannot run a storm surge.. then you have another 400 points to work with. I might grab another 3 units of fire warriors. Or maybe some outflanking kroot for objectives... breachers in devilfish are nasty too with move>run>shoot in the hunter cadre.

Col. Dash wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but isn't a Storm Surge a LoW not a heavy support?

I believe you are correct. I do not remember if it is an option to have it in the hunter contingent though.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
ALSO... you said "Farsight" in the title.. but it looks like your running the Hunter Contingent. Are you actually running the DBC? If you are then your not running any axillaries for it. Just wanted to clarify.

Stormsurge is a LoW but its listed under the same unit options that hammerheads, broadsides, and sniper drone are within the Hunter Contingent for some reason

Farsight because my army is painted in the Farsight scheme, and super Battlesuit heavy, not because I'm actually using the Farsight rules.
I'll revise the list and post it later today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So how's this? Revised it.
Farsight - Comp 1850 (1848pts)
Tau Empire: Codex (2015) (Tau Hunter Contingent)
Core
Hunter Cadre
Command
Commander
XV8 Commander Crisis Suit
Drone Controller

Elite
XV104 Riptide Battlesuits
Riptide Shas'vre
Early Warning Override, Ion Accelerator, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Crisis Shas'ui
2x Plasma Rifle
Crisis Shas'ui
2x Plasma Rifle
Crisis Shas'ui
2x Plasma Rifle

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
Crisis Shas'ui
2x Fusion Blaster
Crisis Shas'ui
2x Fusion Blaster
Crisis Shas'ui
2x Fusion Blaster

Fast Attack
Pathfinder Team
4x Pathfinder

Heavy Support
KV128 Stormsurges
KV128 Stormsurge
Early Warning Override, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, Twin-linked Flamer

Troops
Strike Team
5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle
Strike Team
5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle
Strike Team
5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle

Auxiliary
Optimized Stealth Cadre
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon
Stealth Shas'vre
Burst Cannon, Homing beacon

XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon
Stealth Shas'vre
Burst Cannon, Homing beacon

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits
Ghostkeel Shas'vre
Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster, Velocity Tracker

Tau Empire: Codex (2015) (Formation Detachment)
Formation
Drone-Net VX1-0
Drones
4x MV7 Marker Drone
Drones
4x MV7 Marker Drone
Drones
4x MV7 Marker Drone
Drones
4x MV7 Marker Drone

Sorry, returning to the Driver vs. Blast on the Stormsurge, one thing I noticed while watching an ITC game video Bat Rep, is that with the EWO the Driver is also better as it let's you blast a squad across the entire board if you haven't charged in it with much more efficiency than the Blast.

This makes even more sense if you're planning to Stomp since all of a sudden you don't care about your shooting on the target you'll be charging, which means it's even less viable to double down on the Blast over the Driver.

After reading a few reviews, I've come to realise that by trying to squeeze stuff into a Hunter Contingent I've missed out on skyrays, tetras etc & all the mandatory fields do add up.

That issue will become less punishing @ higher pt games (I'm on 1500).

The main benefit of +1BS & markerlights sharing.. I've instead got more intrinsically powerful units. Food for thought.

Razerous wrote:
After reading a few reviews, I've come to realise that by trying to squeeze stuff into a Hunter Contingent I've missed out on skyrays, tetras etc & all the mandatory fields do add up.

That issue will become less punishing @ higher pt games (I'm on 1500).

The main benefit of +1BS & markerlights sharing.. I've instead got more intrinsically powerful units. Food for thought.

oh oh. . .
Sounds like a sort of balance,

That's assuming you're using the ITC's ruling. If you're using the CF rule as it is actually written, the choice between HC and CAD is quite a lot harder, especially in your point range. I think that in anything more than 1500, you start being able to pile in enough goodies that the special rule sharing gives HC a marked edge over other options.

MilkmanAl wrote:
That's assuming you're using the ITC's ruling. If you're using the CF rule as it is actually written, the choice between HC and CAD is quite a lot harder, especially in your point range. I think that in anything more than 1500, you start being able to pile in enough goodies that the special rule sharing gives HC a marked edge over other options.

That is correct. I think its a safe assumptions is the vast majority of games I'll be watching, reading about, playing, etc.

I think the value of Skyrays and Tetras has gone down now with the new Drone and Piranha formations, that's not to say they aren't great, it's just that you aren't as hurt by not including them.

I think the biggest factor of which contingent, including the basic cad, you go with is determined by what you're trying to do with the list. I can easily see all three options being correct simply based on what you want your focus and play style to be.

Yeah it definitely seems like there are a TON of options, even at a pretty highly competitive level. You can take a CAD plus a formation or two, or you can pick whichever detachment you like the most and then take a CAD or a formation from the other detachment....the options really are endless. Play what you want and enjoy a golden age of options.

Too bad Vespids still suck :(

Honestly, one thing I'd really love to see is a Tau Auxiliary codex, since one thing I always liked about Chaos was that you could build four or more unique armies, with a ton of different models, that could all look unique but as one whole army at the same time. With Tau it feels a lot more limited since their other races are restricted to all of two squads :/.

You could always try and track down some Gnarlocs. They are so cool. Part of me would love to do a dinosaur riding army

Gnarlocs are pretty cool looking, but I want more of the Vespids, those guys just have so many cool possibilities. I wouldn't mind more Kroot stuff either though.

Oh, and am I the only one that feels like the Tau are kind of visually like the Trade Federation? Remember in the second Star Wars prequel where they're on that planet, and there are those flying bug men that kind of look like Vespids. The Trade Federation leaders also look very much like Tau in some ways, and they are the ones that primarily use drone technology. So you know D:

When i heard Tau were getting an MC in 6th i was expecting a Knarloc related thing, not a gundam suit. Foolish of me to think GW would diversify the Tau with their alien allies.

The FW Knarlocs were cool looking, but thats about it. Joke of an MC....no saves or bulk of wounds so it dies instantly and really had no purpose either.

Edit: What do you guys think are the Signature Systems worth taking for the FSE? Right now the only one I actually like is the Earth Caste Pilot for my Riptide, and the Medallion of Arthas Moloch is an ok option, but the others just seem kind of not worth it. Thoughts?

I looked up the rules for the Knarloc stuff, and the points aren't that bad for what they do, since none of the big beasties cost more than 80pts, but their armaments are so oddly bad. I get it, Kroot aren't the best at shooting, but paying a ton of points just to mount a Krootox Rifle on one of the things is silly :/.

Oh, I thought of something cool too, the Vespid could totally have an assassin group, since they are pretty stealthy and mobile. It's also not uncommon to see assassinations carried out by jet pack wearing flyboys in sci-fi genres.

 Tinkrr wrote:
Edit: What do you guys think are the Signature Systems worth taking for the FSE? Right now the only one I actually like is the Earth Caste Pilot for my Riptide, and the Medallion of Arthas Moloch is an ok option, but the others just seem kind of not worth it. Thoughts?

I looked up the rules for the Knarloc stuff, and the points aren't that bad for what they do, since none of the big beasties cost more than 80pts, but their armaments are so oddly bad. I get it, Kroot aren't the best at shooting, but paying a ton of points just to mount a Krootox Rifle on one of the things is silly :/.

Oh, I thought of something cool too, the Vespid could totally have an assassin group, since they are pretty stealthy and mobile. It's also not uncommon to see assassinations carried out by jet pack wearing flyboys in sci-fi genres.

None of them are worth taking, frees up points for other things.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Edit: What do you guys think are the Signature Systems worth taking for the FSE? Right now the only one I actually like is the Earth Caste Pilot for my Riptide, and the Medallion of Arthas Moloch is an ok option, but the others just seem kind of not worth it. Thoughts?

I looked up the rules for the Knarloc stuff, and the points aren't that bad for what they do, since none of the big beasties cost more than 80pts, but their armaments are so oddly bad. I get it, Kroot aren't the best at shooting, but paying a ton of points just to mount a Krootox Rifle on one of the things is silly :/.

Oh, I thought of something cool too, the Vespid could totally have an assassin group, since they are pretty stealthy and mobile. It's also not uncommon to see assassinations carried out by jet pack wearing flyboys in sci-fi genres.

None of them are worth taking, frees up points for other things.

SJ

I mean the Earth Caste Pilot is actually a huge buff to a Riptide because I'm already taking the FNP item just because of how often you can fail a Nova Charge.

 Tinkrr wrote:
Edit: What do you guys think are the Signature Systems worth taking for the FSE? Right now the only one I actually like is the Earth Caste Pilot for my Riptide, and the Medallion of Arthas Moloch is an ok option, but the others just seem kind of not worth it. Thoughts?

I looked up the rules for the Knarloc stuff, and the points aren't that bad for what they do, since none of the big beasties cost more than 80pts, but their armaments are so oddly bad. I get it, Kroot aren't the best at shooting, but paying a ton of points just to mount a Krootox Rifle on one of the things is silly :/.

Oh, I thought of something cool too, the Vespid could totally have an assassin group, since they are pretty stealthy and mobile. It's also not uncommon to see assassinations carried out by jet pack wearing flyboys in sci-fi genres.

I have not acquired the supplement yet, but the knowledge that the ECPA isn't actually purchaseable has decreased my intention of doing so.

 carldooley wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Edit: What do you guys think are the Signature Systems worth taking for the FSE? Right now the only one I actually like is the Earth Caste Pilot for my Riptide, and the Medallion of Arthas Moloch is an ok option, but the others just seem kind of not worth it. Thoughts?

I looked up the rules for the Knarloc stuff, and the points aren't that bad for what they do, since none of the big beasties cost more than 80pts, but their armaments are so oddly bad. I get it, Kroot aren't the best at shooting, but paying a ton of points just to mount a Krootox Rifle on one of the things is silly :/.

Oh, I thought of something cool too, the Vespid could totally have an assassin group, since they are pretty stealthy and mobile. It's also not uncommon to see assassinations carried out by jet pack wearing flyboys in sci-fi genres.

I have not acquired the supplement yet, but the knowledge that the ECPA isn't actually purchaseable has decreased my intention of doing so.

I would refuse to play anyone who insists a Riptide cannot purchase a ECPA. They are just being plain stupid. The rules for ECPA specifically say that it allows rerools on Nova Reactor rolls, which only riptides have lol (Besides the fact that in FSE riptides could purchase them and it is an obvious omission on the part of GW)

 carldooley wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Edit: What do you guys think are the Signature Systems worth taking for the FSE? Right now the only one I actually like is the Earth Caste Pilot for my Riptide, and the Medallion of Arthas Moloch is an ok option, but the others just seem kind of not worth it. Thoughts?

I looked up the rules for the Knarloc stuff, and the points aren't that bad for what they do, since none of the big beasties cost more than 80pts, but their armaments are so oddly bad. I get it, Kroot aren't the best at shooting, but paying a ton of points just to mount a Krootox Rifle on one of the things is silly :/.

Oh, I thought of something cool too, the Vespid could totally have an assassin group, since they are pretty stealthy and mobile. It's also not uncommon to see assassinations carried out by jet pack wearing flyboys in sci-fi genres.

I have not acquired the supplement yet, but the knowledge that the ECPA isn't actually purchaseable has decreased my intention of doing so.

Yeah, currently it's worded so poorly you can't, but it specifically mentions Nova rolls, which wouldn't make any sense... Plus in the fluff O'Vesa is specifically an Earth Caste pilot.

I'm just going to kind of assume the ITC rules that it's fine to put that on a Riptide.

So I am currently still painting up my Ghostkeels and Stormsurge to add to my Tau army (Sadly i take FOREVER to paint) and I am still tinkering with 2 possible army lists. I am in Phoenix Arizona so every single place uses ITC rules (meaning currently CFP is nerfed), so I am trying to decide if Hunter Contingent is still worth it or not.

List 1: Formation Detachment
Drone Net
4 x 4 Marker Drones

OSC
3 Stealthsuits (one with TL and FB)
3 Stealthsuits (one with TL and FB)
3 Ghostkeel (3 CIR, 3 TL FB, 2 TL, 3 BKR)

Riptide Wing
1 Riptide (HBC, EWO, VT)
1 Riptide (HBC, EWO, VT)
3 Riptide (3 IA, 3 EWO, 2 TL, 3 BKR)


List 2: Hunter Contingent
Hunter Cadre
1 Commander (2 Missile Pods, DC, TL, Iridium, 2 MD)

1 Riptide (IA, EWO)
1 Riptide (IA, EWO)

6 Marker Drones

1 Storm Surge (Pulse Driver Cannon, TL AFP, EWO, ATS, SG)

5 Strike Team
5 Strike Team
5 Strike Team


OSC
3 Stealthsuits (one with TL and FB)
3 Stealthsuits (one with TL and FB)
3 Ghostkeel (3 CIR, 3 TL FB, 2 TL, 3 BKR)


Only problem with List 1 is I currently only own 2 Riptides so would need 3 more lol

The Arthas Molloch thing got super nerfed. i ws bummed about that.

 Tinkrr wrote:
Edit: What do you guys think are the Signature Systems worth taking for the FSE? Right now the only one I actually like is the Earth Caste Pilot for my Riptide, and the Medallion of Arthas Moloch is an ok option, but the others just seem kind of not worth it. Thoughts?

ECPA is good, of course it's up to TO if you can use it at a tourney.

I love fusion blades. Stupid expensive for what they are. But they are a lot of fun. Being able to flatten Chapter masters and dreadnaughts alike is also a ton of fun!

The talismon is ok. I personally like it for the free slot 5++ rather then the deny bonus. You don't have enough dice anyway to make it totally worth it.

My issue with FSE relics is that not only they cost too much, and not only they are mostly situational, but that there is also nobody I want to have in a FSE that can wear any.

I don't really need dronemander with the drone net, I don't have a buffmander or tankmander as possible builds. Every commander. I must take (retaliation cadre tax) is auto regulated to coldstar in my FSE lists, meaning they can't even take relics.

I don't even get a chance to consider them, even of they were good. (and they are silver bullets, at best.)

 Tinkrr wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Edit: What do you guys think are the Signature Systems worth taking for the FSE? Right now the only one I actually like is the Earth Caste Pilot for my Riptide, and the Medallion of Arthas Moloch is an ok option, but the others just seem kind of not worth it. Thoughts?

I looked up the rules for the Knarloc stuff, and the points aren't that bad for what they do, since none of the big beasties cost more than 80pts, but their armaments are so oddly bad. I get it, Kroot aren't the best at shooting, but paying a ton of points just to mount a Krootox Rifle on one of the things is silly :/.

Oh, I thought of something cool too, the Vespid could totally have an assassin group, since they are pretty stealthy and mobile. It's also not uncommon to see assassinations carried out by jet pack wearing flyboys in sci-fi genres.

None of them are worth taking, frees up points for other things.

SJ

I mean the Earth Caste Pilot is actually a huge buff to a Riptide because I'm already taking the FNP item just because of how often you can fail a Nova Charge.

The are all too expensive, and apparently written for the wrong book as none are particularly useful. The only one that is useful cannot be tsken by the only unit that can use it. That pretty much makes them all garbage.

SJ

I probably won't give in to that level of hyperbole. But I will say that the relics were less than I hoped. At the same time, we are not talking about a weak faction here. So it may be somewhat understandable if our relics are situational. After all there is only one situation we are normally equippd to handle and one that we are not. So the one we are not does beg an answer and some of the relics help fill in a little bit. So I'm torn on their value. As in all things the list decides what you need. Terrain, dice and enemy lists make you look brilliant...or like an idiot. I dont see a 25 point ecision being the reason someone loses though so there's also that.

 Jancoran wrote:
I probably won't give in to that level of hyperbole. But I will say that the relics were less than I hoped. At the same time, we are not talking about a weak faction here. So it may be somewhat understandable if our relics are situational. After all there is only one situation we are normally equippd to handle and one that we are not. So the one we are not does beg an answer and some of the relics help fill in a little bit. So I'm torn on their value. As in all things the list decides what you need. Terrain, dice and enemy lists make you look brilliant...or like an idiot. I dont see a 25 point ecision being the reason someone loses though so there's also that.

Can you restate? I have no idea what point you were trying to make.

SJ

Someone needs to do me a spreadsheet on 4x 4x Marker Drones, average number of marker hits on units firing singly or using one unit's hits to boost another's BS.

^^ Agreed, if anyone tells me I can't use the ECPA on a Riptide I'm going to tell them they can go shove it politely and see if they don't like it they don't have to play me. It was clearly meant and designed for Riptide so I will continue to use it.

On another note I was curious to ask if anyone else has tried running a team of x3 Crisis Suits each with x2 Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors and Target Lock? I ran this yesterday against Space Marines, Eldar and a Tyranid player and holy cow did these guys just wreck face!

on the relic note, I totally forgot about the warscaper drone. I take one every game, it is great. Yes a little pricey, like others, but giving ignore cover to a squad of crisis suits.. or in my case a squad of deepstriking broadsides now is really good. Such a large surface area to land, ignoring terrain tests is nice.

Also, want to note that the earthquake node (forget its real name) I have never tried, but it seems like it could be really effective in a terrain heavy map. And if you roll that it continues multiple turns.

 gmaleron wrote:
^^ Agreed, if anyone tells me I can't use the ECPA on a Riptide I'm going to tell them they can go shove it politely and see if they don't like it they don't have to play me. It was clearly meant and designed for Riptide so I will continue to use it.

On another note I was curious to ask if anyone else has tried running a team of x3 Crisis Suits each with x2 Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors and Target Lock? I ran this yesterday against Space Marines, Eldar and a Tyranid player and holy cow did these guys just wreck face!

I used to run a single suit with an airburst and flamer, and he was awesome. I can only imagine that a squad of 6 would be devastating to a horde army.

 BoomWolf wrote:
My issue with FSE relics is that not only they cost too much, and not only they are mostly situational, but that there is also nobody I want to have in a FSE that can wear any.

I don't really need dronemander with the drone net, I don't have a buffmander or tankmander as possible builds. Every commander. I must take (retaliation cadre tax) is auto regulated to coldstar in my FSE lists, meaning they can't even take relics.

I don't even get a chance to consider them, even of they were good. (and they are silver bullets, at best.)

I actually see the ECPA as an effective 30pt+ discount to the Riptide Wing!

Regarding the ECPA : Rule wise ists clear that with th Mont'ka Book a normal Riptide cant get it. Fact. There is also no ambiguity here. As a normal Riptide has no access to FE relics...

O'Vesa on the other side get that ECPA. perhaps... just perhaps its RAI that only he geths this one and such ECPA has its Nova Rules ...

 _ghost_ wrote:
Regarding the ECPA : Rule wise ists clear that with th Mont'ka Book a normal Riptide cant get it. Fact. There is also no ambiguity here. As a normal Riptide has no access to FE relics...

O'Vesa on the other side get that ECPA. perhaps... just perhaps its RAI that only he geths this one and such ECPA has its Nova Rules ...

I thought this might be the case as well. Unfortunately, if it is intended this way, they went about it in the worst possible way: Taking away a relic (not replacing it), taking away the option to take O'vesa (only in the eight formation now).

I also don't like it the way it is now. but insisting on using it on a usual riptide would simple be against clear written rules.

 _ghost_ wrote:
Regarding the ECPA : Rule wise ists clear that with th Mont'ka Book a normal Riptide cant get it. Fact. There is also no ambiguity here. As a normal Riptide has no access to FE relics...

O'Vesa on the other side get that ECPA. perhaps... just perhaps its RAI that only he gets this one and such ECPA has its Nova Rules ...

The problem is that RAW, O'Vesa has an illegal loadout. He, as defined in the eight formation, is just a normal riptide with all of his upgrades and the associated special rules. None of those rules allow him to take an ECPA if a normal riptide could not (which is the case). Definitely a simple oversight as there is no current way to approach the rules that make sense. It's like Ravenwing HQ level of bad. Any FSE Riptide will definitely be able to take the ECPA, as there is no other way to satisfy O'Vesa's item requirements.

So go ahead in good conscience and run a riptide with an ECPA, since even if you think that it's only meant for O'Vesa, then why does it have a cost in the relic section? Who can actually purchase and use it for 30 points?

That being said, I think it's kind of moot since the Riptide wing is so much better. Although, I really don't plan on fielding the wing. We're not quite at 4 source format yet for the ITC, which is what I would need to field it. The other option would be the 4 or 5 riptides the Notre Dame has outlined, and I really am not about that life. 3 is pushing it for me. More likely, I'll just grab a stormsurge and call it a day.

 _ghost_ wrote:
Regarding the ECPA : Rule wise ists clear that with th Mont'ka Book a normal Riptide cant get it. Fact. There is also no ambiguity here. As a normal Riptide has no access to FE relics...

O'Vesa on the other side get that ECPA. perhaps... just perhaps its RAI that only he geths this one and such ECPA has its Nova Rules ...

Yeah sorry still gonna refuse to play anyone who says i cannot use it on my riptide

FSE: Riptides could equip Signature Systems
FSE: ECPA has an ability that ONLY riptides can use
Mont'ka: It does not say riptides can equip signature systems
Montka: ECPA is still there exactly the same with an ability ONLY riptides can use.

It is clearly an oversight in the Mont'ka book.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
Regarding the ECPA : Rule wise ists clear that with th Mont'ka Book a normal Riptide cant get it. Fact. There is also no ambiguity here. As a normal Riptide has no access to FE relics...

O'Vesa on the other side get that ECPA. perhaps... just perhaps its RAI that only he geths this one and such ECPA has its Nova Rules ...

Yeah sorry still gonna refuse to play anyone who says i cannot use it on my riptide

The squat, muscular physiology of the Earth caste makes them ill-fitting pilots for their famous battlesuits. In the Farsight Enclaves, however, it is not unheard of for a battlesuit to be built to accommodate an Earth caste pilot. The honour of donning the Hero's Mantle has been granted to very few such individuals, but an Earth caste pilot can judge a battlesuit's accuracy and energy tolerances far better than his Fire caste equivalent, even if his skill at close quarters leaves much to be desired.

It's intentional at this point--the fluff made it clear before that it was not intended solely for Riptides.

FSE: Riptides could equip Signature Systems

True, but that doesn't mean the EPCA is just for Riptides. It benefits them much more than it would a standard Crisis Suit, but there's a reason why it says "Models with battlesuits only." and not "Riptides only."

FSE: ECPA has an ability that ONLY riptides can use

"The model re-rolls all rolls of 1 To Hit in the Shooting phase, and may re-roll the dice when using a Nova Reactor. However their Weapon Skill is 1."

There is ONE part of that specific to Riptides.

Mont'ka: It does not say riptides can equip signature systems
Montka: ECPA is still there exactly the same with an ability ONLY riptides can use.

And still "Models with battlesuits only."

It is clearly an oversight in the Mont'ka book.

Or maybe they just wanted it to be specific to O'Vesa for Riptides?

I mean, the whole thing about him having a Riptide i why he's part of The Eight.

 Kanluwen wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
Regarding the ECPA : Rule wise ists clear that with th Mont'ka Book a normal Riptide cant get it. Fact. There is also no ambiguity here. As a normal Riptide has no access to FE relics...

O'Vesa on the other side get that ECPA. perhaps... just perhaps its RAI that only he geths this one and such ECPA has its Nova Rules ...

Yeah sorry still gonna refuse to play anyone who says i cannot use it on my riptide

The squat, muscular physiology of the Earth caste makes them ill-fitting pilots for their famous battlesuits. In the Farsight Enclaves, however, it is not unheard of for a battlesuit to be built to accommodate an Earth caste pilot. The honour of donning the Hero's Mantle has been granted to very few such individuals, but an Earth caste pilot can judge a battlesuit's accuracy and energy tolerances far better than his Fire caste equivalent, even if his skill at close quarters leaves much to be desired.

It's intentional at this point--the fluff made it clear before that it was not intended solely for Riptides.

FSE: Riptides could equip Signature Systems

True, but that doesn't mean the EPCA is just for Riptides. It benefits them much more than it would a standard Crisis Suit, but there's a reason why it says "Models with battlesuits only." and not "Riptides only."

FSE: ECPA has an ability that ONLY riptides can use

"The model re-rolls all rolls of 1 To Hit in the Shooting phase, and may re-roll the dice when using a Nova Reactor. However their Weapon Skill is 1."

There is ONE part of that specific to Riptides.

Mont'ka: It does not say riptides can equip signature systems
Montka: ECPA is still there exactly the same with an ability ONLY riptides can use.

And still "Models with battlesuits only."

It is clearly an oversight in the Mont'ka book.

Or maybe they just wanted it to be specific to O'Vesa for Riptides?

I mean, the whole thing about him having a Riptide i why he's part of The Eight.

lol so you think it the intention was to cost 30 points to only be able to use half the rule to get to reroll 1's? yeah i don't think so. THIRTY points?

 luke1705 wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
Regarding the ECPA : Rule wise ists clear that with th Mont'ka Book a normal Riptide cant get it. Fact. There is also no ambiguity here. As a normal Riptide has no access to FE relics...

O'Vesa on the other side get that ECPA. perhaps... just perhaps its RAI that only he gets this one and such ECPA has its Nova Rules ...

The problem is that RAW, O'Vesa has an illegal loadout. He, as defined in the eight formation, is just a normal riptide with all of his upgrades and the associated special rules. None of those rules allow him to take an ECPA if a normal riptide could not (which is the case). Definitely a simple oversight as there is no current way to approach the rules that make sense. It's like Ravenwing HQ level of bad. Any FSE Riptide will definitely be able to take the ECPA, as there is no other way to satisfy O'Vesa's item requirements.

So go ahead in good conscience and run a riptide with an ECPA, since even if you think that it's only meant for O'Vesa, then why does it have a cost in the relic section? Who can actually purchase and use it for 30 points?

That being said, I think it's kind of moot since the Riptide wing is so much better. Although, I really don't plan on fielding the wing. We're not quite at 4 source format yet for the ITC, which is what I would need to field it. The other option would be the 4 or 5 riptides the Notre Dame has outlined, and I really am not about that life. 3 is pushing it for me. More likely, I'll just grab a stormsurge and call it a day.

Not the case, All the members of the Eight are Independent Characters, and it is clear that "characters in FSE" may take relics, so O'Vesa is good to go! Except you will never take him, because the Eight formation is not viable in normal sized games.. =(

In addition: even if the O'vesa riptide would be otherwise absolutely illegal.... he is listed in exactly this way in the book. Its not as if you get a proposal hhow to fit out O'Vesa. in fact he could also have a ... mastercrafted Bolter on his shoulder.. wear a daemonic CC weapon and drive a jetbike.... as long as its listed in the book as its gear... its legal.

let us see; ECPA is 30 to reroll ones.
shadowsun's Command Link Drone is 20. Command link drone is on a unit, but it is unavailable to FSE.
what is the current wording for ecpa? Does it affect one riptide, or is there a way to justify that it is spread across the unit?

notredameguy10 wrote:

lol so you think it the intention was to cost 30 points to only be able to use half the rule to get to reroll 1's? yeah i don't think so. THIRTY points?

Have you looked at Relics for other armies?

These kinds of "lolwat" items exist everywhere.
The Raven Guard, for example, got a Relic that is 15 points called "The Raven Skull of Korvaad".
You add 1 to Weapon Skill and Leadership of a model with it. If the model dies, all friendly Raven Guard models have the Hatred and Rage special rules while they are within 6" of this position.
The Cadian Detachment got a Relic that is 25 points for a power sword(the Iron Left) with +2 Strength instead of Strength User.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 carldooley wrote:
let us see; ECPA is 30 to reroll ones.
shadowsun's Command Link Drone is 20. Command link drone is on a unit, but it is unavailable to FSE.
what is the current wording for ecpa? Does it affect one riptide, or is there a way to justify that it is spread across the unit?

Models with battlesuits only. The model re-rolls all rolls of 1 To Hit in the Shooting phase, and may re-roll the dice when using a Nova Reactor. However, their Weapon Skill is 1.

It's the exact same wording as it was in FSE--it's specific to the model.

So strictly looking only at the Mont ka book, how many point does it cost? The book does not specify point cost on each model just their wargear.

Tautastic wrote:
So strictly looking only at the Mont ka book, how many point does it cost? The book does not specify point cost on each model just their wargear.

scroll up. . .
if I ever needed proof that people don't actually read the thread

Thankfully it seems GW finally pulled their heads out and are starting to put up updated FAQ's on their website and I expect that this will be cleared up, until then I don't care what you say. This item is clearly meant for a Riptide so I will continue to use it, you can throw out the "RAW" all you want but anyone with common sense can see that this is an oversight. Being and Independent Character would not make him immune to taking it because he is technically a Suit so his loadout currently is illegal if the mistake is actually correct. Sorry, im taking the ECPA and I know im not cheating in the slightest.

How can a written set of wargear for a Character illegal?

 _ghost_ wrote:
How can a written set of wargear for a Character illegal?

Because according to Mont'ka Riptides cannot take it and Ovesa is listed as being in a Riptide, why this is a clear oversight.

 gmaleron wrote:
Thankfully it seems GW finally pulled their heads out and are starting to put up updated FAQ's on their website and I expect that this will be cleared up, until then I don't care what you say. This item is clearly meant for a Riptide so I will continue to use it, you can throw out the "RAW" all you want but anyone with common sense can see that this is an oversight. Being and Independent Character would not make him immune to taking it because he is technically a Suit so his loadout currently is illegal if the mistake is actually correct. Sorry, im taking the ECPA and I know im not cheating in the slightest.

except that you are, sorry. This is why Tau players are having so much trouble with the ITC poll. The RaW is clear - riptides cannot take the Earth Caste Pilot Array, but in a Hunter Cadre Riptides and Hammerheads can benefit from a buffmander's abilities, even if the Riptide has a Target Lock and targets a different unit than the rest of its unit.

 carldooley wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Thankfully it seems GW finally pulled their heads out and are starting to put up updated FAQ's on their website and I expect that this will be cleared up, until then I don't care what you say. This item is clearly meant for a Riptide so I will continue to use it, you can throw out the "RAW" all you want but anyone with common sense can see that this is an oversight. Being and Independent Character would not make him immune to taking it because he is technically a Suit so his loadout currently is illegal if the mistake is actually correct. Sorry, im taking the ECPA and I know im not cheating in the slightest.

except that you are, sorry. This is why Tau players are having so much trouble with the ITC poll. The RaW is clear - riptides cannot take the Earth Caste Pilot Array, but in a Hunter Cadre Riptides and Hammerheads can benefit from a buffmander's abilities, even if the Riptide has a Target Lock and targets a different unit than the rest of its unit.

Im not cheating and you wont be able to convince me otherwise, this is a clear oversight and hopefully the ITC is smart enough to see that. This would mean that Ovesa is unfieldable because he would have illegal wargear, its common sense. FSE Riptides can take the Earth Caste Pilot Array and without a doubt it will be FAQd when the get to the Mont'Ka book. Glad im in an environment where my FLGS agrees 110% with me.

 gmaleron wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
How can a written set of wargear for a Character illegal?

Because according to Mont'ka Riptides cannot take it and Ovesa is listed as being in a Riptide, why this is a clear oversight.

then you obey the rules for the eight and you include the points in the model, even if it is illegal normally.

 carldooley wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
How can a written set of wargear for a Character illegal?

Because according to Mont'ka Riptides cannot take it and Ovesa is listed as being in a Riptide, why this is a clear oversight.

then you obey the rules for the eight and you include the points in the model, even if it is illegal normally.

That makes 0 sense, this is clearly an oversight period.

 gmaleron wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Thankfully it seems GW finally pulled their heads out and are starting to put up updated FAQ's on their website and I expect that this will be cleared up, until then I don't care what you say. This item is clearly meant for a Riptide so I will continue to use it, you can throw out the "RAW" all you want but anyone with common sense can see that this is an oversight. Being and Independent Character would not make him immune to taking it because he is technically a Suit so his loadout currently is illegal if the mistake is actually correct. Sorry, im taking the ECPA and I know im not cheating in the slightest.

except that you are, sorry. This is why Tau players are having so much trouble with the ITC poll. The RaW is clear - riptides cannot take the Earth Caste Pilot Array, but in a Hunter Cadre Riptides and Hammerheads can benefit from a buffmander's abilities, even if the Riptide has a Target Lock and targets a different unit than the rest of its unit.

Im not cheating and you wont be able to convince me otherwise, this is a clear oversight and hopefully the ITC is smart enough to see that.

and again, until there is a revision in the digital codex or a FAQ is released, I'm sorry, but you are cheating if you equip a ECPA to any riptide other than O'Vesa.

Keep in mind that I'm saying this as a Tau Player with 3 riptides. I'd love to equip it, but until a change happens it is impossible.

 gmaleron wrote:
That makes 0 sense, this is clearly an oversight period.

Hold on. you want sense? how about we play a game with supported (and playtested) rules. . .

 carldooley wrote:

Tautastic wrote:
So strictly looking only at the Mont ka book, how many point does it cost? The book does not specify point cost on each model just their wargear.

scroll up. . .
if I ever needed proof that people don't actually read the thread

Let me clarify my question. How many point does O'Vessa cost or any of the eight?

Tautastic wrote:
So strictly looking only at the Mont ka book, how many point does it cost? The book does not specify point cost on each model just their wargear.

It didn't do that in FSE either. Under FSE, it said that you could take The Eight(of which O'Vesa was a member) with all of their fittings, at the points cost that it would be.

In any regards, Formations never really list points costs. You take the units that constitute the Formation at the cost of the components that make up the Formation.

And that's fine, however I know im not cheating, again youre not going to convince me that I am in any way shape or form man. Not trying to be "that guy" but this is CLEARLY GW messing up the writing. Also when in doubt I can just use the standard Farsight Enclaves Codex because after reading through Mont'Ka there is nothing saying I cant use that Codex and nothing I have been able to find says that you cant use it either. This isn't cheating if your using something that is clearly meant to be used, GW writing a bad sentence yet again is not the fault of the players. I am not cheating. And how is it a playable rule when it is an item that contradicts itself? Sorry its common sense.

Tautastic wrote:
Let me clarify my question. How many point does O'Vessa cost or any of the eight?

that is why it is a supplement. If it is put together like the FSE supplement there should be a list of the equipment that each has. you get the cost of each of the eight by adding the total costs together.
in the Farsight Enclaves supplement (keeping in mind that I do NOT have the Mont'ka book - and I don't know if the costs have changed)
Farsight - in the Tau Codex unchanged so I won't post the points here.
Arra'kon 159
Bravestorm 199
Sha'vastos 174
Brightsword 200
Torchstar 154
Ob'lotai 9-0 128
O'vesa 305
for a total cost of 1484

 gmaleron wrote:


That makes 0 sense, this is clearly an oversight period.

The thing is your probably right. it probably is oversight. there are a lot of things that need some extra attention in the new books. Does that make it "legal" though.. no..

If your local group allows it, fine, go ahead, there are hundreds of home brewed rules and interpretations out there. I guess what people are really trying to say, is don't argue your point.. when RAW its illegal for a riptide right now.


As for O'vesa... any listed wargear is not illegal.. and on top of that the clause "characters in FSE can take relics" also says that O'Vesa can have the ECPA because he is an IC... so I really don't see where your coming from...

 Grizzyzz wrote:
As for O'vesa... any listed wargear is not illegal.. and on top of that the clause "characters in FSE can take relics" also says that O'Vesa can have the ECPA because he is an IC... so I really don't see where your coming from...

Its not Homebrew in my eyes and never will be, its what was intended and what it should be. I only mention it because it says Riptides cannot take any relics and Ovesa is listed as a Riptide but he is also a character so they are contradicting themselves. Trust me I agree with you but its what ive heard from the one player who argued it, thankfully everyone knows he is a WAAC kind of guy so we ignored him and said it was fine.

 gmaleron wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:
As for O'vesa... any listed wargear is not illegal.. and on top of that the clause "characters in FSE can take relics" also says that O'Vesa can have the ECPA because he is an IC... so I really don't see where your coming from...

Its not Homebrew in my eyes and never will be, its what was intended and what it should be. I only mention it because it says Riptides cannot take any relics and Ovesa is listed as a Riptide but he is also a character so they are contradicting themselves. Trust me I agree with you but its what ive heard from the one player who argued it, thankfully everyone knows he is a WAAC kind of guy so we ignored him and said it was fine.

it doesn't say that though.. no where does it say "riptides can't take relics"... the issue in Montka is that they left out the clause that..

"Characters in FSE can take signature systems. RIPTIDES IN AN FSE DETACHMENT MAY ALSO TAKE SIG SYSTEMS"

Just so we're clear, it's not "characters in FSE can take relics".

Mont'ka page 84 wrote:
Signature Systems
Any character in a Farsight Enclaves Detachment or Formation that may select Signature Systems uses the Signature Systems of the Farsight Enclaves(opposite), at the points costs shown, instead of the Signature Systems from Codex: Tau Empire

Personally, I kinda think this might be a response to the fact that Riptides were not really intended to have a large presence in the FSE book and they wanted to make O'Vesa special rather than just making FSE Riptides "autotake" a Relic that makes the penalties of the unit(Nova Reactor) even more of a joke than the Stimulant Injector did.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Just so we're clear, it's not "characters in FSE can take relics".

Mont'ka page 84 wrote:
Signature Systems
Any character in a Farsight Enclaves Detachment or Formation that may select Signature Systems uses the Signature Systems of the Farsight Enclaves(opposite), at the points costs shown, instead of the Signature Systems from Codex: Tau Empire

Personally, I kinda think this might be a response to the fact that Riptides were not really intended to have a large presence in the FSE book and they wanted to make O'Vesa special rather than just making FSE Riptides "autotake" a Relic that makes the penalties of the unit(Nova Reactor) even more of a joke than the Stimulant Injector did.

I agree with this. And to be fair.. I started running my riptides without the ECPA mainly to save points. It did not reduce their effectiveness that much. If I was going to fail my nova roll.. I was failing it.. reroll or not haha

 Grizzyzz wrote:
it doesn't say that though.. no where does it say "riptides can't take relics"... the issue in Montka is that they left out the clause that..

"Characters in FSE can take signature systems. RIPTIDES IN AN FSE DETACHMENT MAY ALSO TAKE SIG SYSTEMS"

Its what I mean, it doesn't say they can take it and doesn't say they cant take it, I don't have my book on me right now (at work) so I appreciate you clarifying. It just makes 0 sense that Relic that is clearly intended for use by Riptides can no longer be taken by Riptides. Also, from what I remember nowhere in the Campaign Book does it say that the Farsight Enclaves Supplement is Illegal nor have I seen anything saying that it cant be used anymore so I will continue to use that if I have to.

 gmaleron wrote:
Its what I mean, it doesn't say they can take it and doesn't say they cant take it, I don't have my book on me right now (at work) so I appreciate you clarifying. It just makes 0 sense that Relic that is clearly intended for use by Riptides can no longer be taken by Riptides. Also, from what I remember nowhere in the Campaign Book does it say that the Farsight Enclaves Supplement is Illegal nor have I seen anything saying that it cant be used anymore so I will continue to use that if I have to.

and a person who insists that they can still use Marbo because he was in the last Imperial Guard Codex (because the new one wasn't called Codex: Imperial Guard and wasn't superceded) isn't laughed out of every tournament he tries to attend?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKMMCPeiQoc

It's a Relic that while having an ability "clearly intended for use by Riptides" is a modification to any Battlesuit. If there were a Broadside Commander, you could give it to him.

The bonus to the Nova Reactor and the rerolls To Hit are fluff things, since it's an Earth Caste member who is familiar with the tolerances of the various Battlesuits they service.

Honestly? It never should have been made a Relic that could be taken by anyone but O'Vesa as part of The Eight--but their reasoning at that point was likely they wanted to allow players to take members of The Eight individually.

 carldooley wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Its what I mean, it doesn't say they can take it and doesn't say they cant take it, I don't have my book on me right now (at work) so I appreciate you clarifying. It just makes 0 sense that Relic that is clearly intended for use by Riptides can no longer be taken by Riptides. Also, from what I remember nowhere in the Campaign Book does it say that the Farsight Enclaves Supplement is Illegal nor have I seen anything saying that it cant be used anymore so I will continue to use that if I have to.

and a person who insists that they can still use Marbo because he was in the last Imperial Guard Codex (because the new one wasn't called Codex: Imperial Guard and wasn't superceded) isn't laughed out of every tournament he tries to attend?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKMMCPeiQoc

Completely different situation and not at all relatable, please tell me where it says that Mont'Ka is replacing the stand alone Farsight Enclaves Codex? Because Mont'Ka is a Campaign book and like other Campaign Books they use armies that are found in other Codex's, why should they be able to run out of their Codex's if they so choose to but the Farsight Enclaves cant? For example Raven Guard can choose to run their army out of Codex Space Marines or utilize the Formations/Detachment from the Campaign Book, why would it be different for the Farsight Enclaves Codex?

Does any codex specifically state that the old one is no longer valid?

 gmaleron wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
Its what I mean, it doesn't say they can take it and doesn't say they cant take it, I don't have my book on me right now (at work) so I appreciate you clarifying. It just makes 0 sense that Relic that is clearly intended for use by Riptides can no longer be taken by Riptides. Also, from what I remember nowhere in the Campaign Book does it say that the Farsight Enclaves Supplement is Illegal nor have I seen anything saying that it cant be used anymore so I will continue to use that if I have to.

and a person who insists that they can still use Marbo because he was in the last Imperial Guard Codex (because the new one wasn't called Codex: Imperial Guard and wasn't superceded) isn't laughed out of every tournament he tries to attend?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKMMCPeiQoc

Completely different situation and not at all relatable, please tell me where it says that Mont'Ka is replacing the stand alone Farsight Enclaves Codex? Because Mont'Ka is a Campaign book and like other Campaign Books they use armies that are found in other Codex's, why should they be able to run out of their Codex's if they so choose to but the Farsight Enclaves cant?

First of all, "Farsight Enclaves" wasn't a Codex.
It's "Farsight Enclaves, a Codex: Tau Empire Supplement".
Second, that book was NOT a "standalone". You could not field it without Tau Empire.

Additionally, it does not really need to "say" that Mont'ka is replacing the book. They never say that "X book replaces X book's previous edition"; common sense dictates that yes it does replace it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

First of all, "Farsight Enclaves" wasn't a Codex.
It's "Farsight Enclaves, a Codex: Tau Empire Supplement".
Second, that book was NOT a "standalone". You could not field it without Tau Empire.

So according to this the Farisght Enclaves Supplement is still legal as the new Codex is also called Codex: Tau Empire, it didn't change and it was why people still able field it before the release of Mont'Ka. And we all know the new Codex was a reprint with just the new units and Formations added in, also it is still available on GW's website. Campaign Books (or Expansions as they are listed on GW's website) don't invalidate Codex's because if that was the case then you could not field Raven Guard or White Scares out of the Space Marine Codex, nor could the Blood Angels use their Codex since they were in Shield of Baal. Since Mont'Ka is listed under "Warzone Damocles" and not as a Codex therefore it does not invalidate the Farsight Enclaves Supplement, it just gives you some new Formations and a Detachment to run the Farsight Enclaves out of that Campaign Book with specific rules for that Detachment.

If you want to run the book, then just run the damn book. It seems like the people you play with will let you.

However, if you want to run things as FSE? You get NOTHING from Mont'ka, as those are supplements for Tau Empire not Farsight Enclaves.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you want to run the book, then just run the damn book. It seems like the people you play with will let you.

However, if you want to run things as FSE? You get NOTHING from Mont'ka, as those are supplements for Tau Empire not Farsight Enclaves.

I can still run things from Mont'ka, just not the Dawnblade Detachment. I can add any Formation from the Mont'Ka book to a standard CAD from the Farsight Enclaves Codex without penalty, also the Farsight Enclaves Codex states:

"A Farsight Enclaves army is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire. It also has a series of supplemental rules (presented below) that can be used in addition to the material found in Codex: Tau Empire. Note that you can only use the options from one codex supplement when choosing your army."

So there is nothing stopping me from using the Formations found in Mont'Ka and running them with a standard CAD with the Farsight Enclaves Supplement. I just cannot use the Dawnblade Detachment.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
Regarding the ECPA : Rule wise ists clear that with th Mont'ka Book a normal Riptide cant get it. Fact. There is also no ambiguity here. As a normal Riptide has no access to FE relics...

O'Vesa on the other side get that ECPA. perhaps... just perhaps its RAI that only he gets this one and such ECPA has its Nova Rules ...

The problem is that RAW, O'Vesa has an illegal loadout. He, as defined in the eight formation, is just a normal riptide with all of his upgrades and the associated special rules. None of those rules allow him to take an ECPA if a normal riptide could not (which is the case). Definitely a simple oversight as there is no current way to approach the rules that make sense. It's like Ravenwing HQ level of bad. Any FSE Riptide will definitely be able to take the ECPA, as there is no other way to satisfy O'Vesa's item requirements.

So go ahead in good conscience and run a riptide with an ECPA, since even if you think that it's only meant for O'Vesa, then why does it have a cost in the relic section? Who can actually purchase and use it for 30 points?

That being said, I think it's kind of moot since the Riptide wing is so much better. Although, I really don't plan on fielding the wing. We're not quite at 4 source format yet for the ITC, which is what I would need to field it. The other option would be the 4 or 5 riptides the Notre Dame has outlined, and I really am not about that life. 3 is pushing it for me. More likely, I'll just grab a stormsurge and call it a day.

Not the case, All the members of the Eight are Independent Characters, and it is clear that "characters in FSE" may take relics, so O'Vesa is good to go! Except you will never take him, because the Eight formation is not viable in normal sized games.. =(

Ok so you got me there I did miss that line, therefore making O'Vesa able to take the ECPA. However, explain to me this:

Name a single model in all of 40k who can pay 30 points for the ECPA and actually USE its Nova Reactor function? Since no Riptide variants that I'm aware of are characters, this seems like a clear mistake to me

Okay, can we take the Riptide ECPA discussion over to YMDC and keep this thread talking about tactics please? Pretty please? With a cherry on top?

Seems like a fair and reasonable request.

Has anyone tried out the FSE CAD yet? I'm still getting mine tabletop-ready but I'm pretty set on bringing that with a formation or two

Do you mean a FSE Hunter Cad? They can't really take a FSE CAD and the Ret CAD is pretty pricey, though I'm planning to run it.

 Tinkrr wrote:
Do you mean a FSE Hunter Cad? They can't really take a FSE CAD and the Ret CAD is pretty pricey, though I'm planning to run it.

Why not? Normal troops or XV8 suits as troops, HQ, access to Farsight SIG systems & Warlord traits. Right?

A CAD is a specific thing

Well, it's easier and cheaper to run a FSE CAD since you no longer need a full unit of crisis suits. An ethereal and a single crisis suit with flamers will only set you back 82 points.

I have run a Dawnblade Detachment, and it's alright. It's a little easier for your opponents than a Hunter Contingent since you won't be taking a Stormsurge.

I cannot find the restriction on taking Aun'va or Shadowsun, yay for more options!

Someone asked is a FSE CAD viable? HECK YEAH Brother! I have been running FSE pretty exclusively since I started playing Tau. Love it. Honestly though, I am really enjoying the DBC. I feel like I am a broken record here.. haha but I love how subtle it is. Really seems weak, but is rock solid.

stibemies wrote:
I cannot find the restriction on taking Aun'va or Shadowsun, yay for more options!

Let's just say if you follow Montka rules for an FSE detachment,

- ANY Tau Empire detachment may be FSE (this means a CAD or any formation)
- xv8s are troops (with no minimum squad size requirement)
- no restrictions on HQs (shadowsun and aun'va may be taken)

I don't think I missed anything else XD

 luke1705 wrote:

Ok so you got me there I did miss that line, therefore making O'Vesa able to take the ECPA. However, explain to me this:

Name a single model in all of 40k who can pay 30 points for the ECPA and actually USE its Nova Reactor function? Since no Riptide variants that I'm aware of are characters, this seems like a clear mistake to me

Name a single model in all of 40k that can't use a re-roll for failed To Hit rolls?

There's more to the ECPA than just the Nova Reactor function.

I actually rocked a hunter cadre with the dawnblade. I used an OSC and kept the ghostkeels on the table, took out the closest markerlights, then held on to my knickers until my turn 2. Worked really well.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Ok so you got me there I did miss that line, therefore making O'Vesa able to take the ECPA. However, explain to me this:

Name a single model in all of 40k who can pay 30 points for the ECPA and actually USE its Nova Reactor function? Since no Riptide variants that I'm aware of are characters, this seems like a clear mistake to me

Name a single model in all of 40k that can't use a re-roll for failed To Hit rolls?

There's more to the ECPA than just the Nova Reactor function.

And there is even one that can use the Nova Reactor Funktion... its called O'Vesa

 _ghost_ wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Ok so you got me there I did miss that line, therefore making O'Vesa able to take the ECPA. However, explain to me this:

Name a single model in all of 40k who can pay 30 points for the ECPA and actually USE its Nova Reactor function? Since no Riptide variants that I'm aware of are characters, this seems like a clear mistake to me

Name a single model in all of 40k that can't use a re-roll for failed To Hit rolls?

There's more to the ECPA than just the Nova Reactor function.

And there is even one that can use the Nova Reactor Funktion... its called O'Vesa

He doesn't pay 30 points for it though, which was my point. I agree that this should probably stick to YMDC call though.

 luke1705 wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Ok so you got me there I did miss that line, therefore making O'Vesa able to take the ECPA. However, explain to me this:

Name a single model in all of 40k who can pay 30 points for the ECPA and actually USE its Nova Reactor function? Since no Riptide variants that I'm aware of are characters, this seems like a clear mistake to me

Name a single model in all of 40k that can't use a re-roll for failed To Hit rolls?

There's more to the ECPA than just the Nova Reactor function.

And there is even one that can use the Nova Reactor Funktion... its called O'Vesa

He doesn't pay 30 points for it though, which was my point. I agree that this should probably stick to YMDC call though.

Um, no. He absolutely DOES pay 30 points for it.

Formations never list points costs, but the models contained within are not free.

Ovesa and the rest of The Eight are not listed as costs, either in the formation or in the FSE book. You are suppose to calculate what his cost is depending on his wargear.

Ovesa is over 300pts, because he has 2 25pt drones and the ECPA as well as 3 support items. Yes he has more stuff than a Riptide is normally allowed, it doesnt matter because he is a special character. Which is why i dont get why people are arguing he cant get the ECPA thanks to the wording flop denying normal Riptides the ECPA. If hes listed with it, he has it regardless of the rest of the dex until FAQ'd out

This is the worst thread ever. I just filtered through page after page of fighting like y'all are little kids. I was hoping to see talk about "tactics" like what of the new formations are proving effective or not, what new units are fun to play with, maybe if people find the new turret option for Firewarriors to be worth while... Can I suggest that if you want to fight about rules to start another thread saying "tau questions/possible rule conficts" or something and leave this thread for TACTICS

 thefallenjackal wrote:
This is the worst thread ever. I just filtered through page after page of fighting like y'all are little kids. I was hoping to see talk about "tactics" like what of the new formations are proving effective or not, what new units are fun to play with, maybe if people find the new turret option for Firewarriors to be worth while... Can I suggest that if you want to fight about rules to start another thread saying "tau questions/possible rule conficts" or something and leave this thread for TACTICS

Hear, hear! Exalted! I already said much the same thing, albeit with less vehemence, a few posts ago.

Most of these rules disputes are the result of tactics discussion, sorry but that's what happens when the rules are unclear to the point that we need to first discuss them in order to talk about tactics at all.

I mean after all, the tactical benefit of an ECPA changes greatly if you can't use it on a Riptide, and the Piranha drone spawn does too when you can only do it every other turn, and so forth and so on.

 Tinkrr wrote:
Most of these rules disputes are the result of tactics discussion, sorry but that's what happens when the rules are unclear to the point that we need to first discuss them in order to talk about tactics at all.

I mean after all, the tactical benefit of an ECPA changes greatly if you can't use it on a Riptide, and the Piranha drone spawn does too when you can only do it every other turn, and so forth and so on.

The potential of the ECPA does highlight the benefit of the Riptide Wing.

For example, take the OSC.. then remove a unit or two elsewhere, upgrade the OSC to a RipWing. It is just better (I feel).

The problem with discussing tactics is theyre largely meta, or "You cant do that" discussions. We have a lot of the latter sadly since the Tau rules are so poorly written (though a lot of the debates lately werent even a poorly written rule, just dumb interpretations of a clear rule such as ECPA on Ovesa)

In my meta, fliers are ridiculously uncommon. If i see a flier at all, its usually one Stormraven or one of the Wolves equivalents., which i can take out without dedicated air support (just not easily most of the time). So im used to avoiding VTs because theyre largely a waste of points, meaning im a bit biased when people suggest lists involving them.
Just an example.

Razerous wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Most of these rules disputes are the result of tactics discussion, sorry but that's what happens when the rules are unclear to the point that we need to first discuss them in order to talk about tactics at all.

I mean after all, the tactical benefit of an ECPA changes greatly if you can't use it on a Riptide, and the Piranha drone spawn does too when you can only do it every other turn, and so forth and so on.

The potential of the ECPA does highlight the benefit of the Riptide Wing.

For example, take the OSC.. then remove a unit or two elsewhere, upgrade the OSC to a RipWing. It is just better (I feel).

I think it really depends on what you're doing with your list.

The OSC is better in the Hunter Contingent simply because it's comparable and fills the Aux slot, but the same isn't exactly true for the Riptide wing when it comes to the Dawnblade because of how many formations they have that are better, and if they want to run a Ret Cad as their core. That's not to say it can't be similar, just it's more based on the list than the OSC is for the Hunter Contingent as it's really the only Aux choice outside of the minimum drone squad.

The other thing to consider is that the OSC is better at providing a lot of small arms fire and eating armour in a Ret Cad core, while also having homing options, that doesn't force you into four Riptides. The Riptide Wing is stronger fire power overall, but it's not as strong if you're already limited by how many suits your bringing, and don't have that swarm mower from Stormsurges or Strikers. It's really a tough call, both are pretty powerful for different reasons.

Edit: Yes, I know I totally said the OSC is better in Hunter Contingent because it fills an Aux but is worse because it is more redundant, while saying the same for a Riptide Wing and a Ret Cad Core, but that just shows how many factors there are x_x

Yep, I'm really having difficulty choosing.

My current experiment is having a dawn contingent based around retaliation, drone net auxiliary for markerlights and "basic infantry" drones, with an added OSC for the T1 presence.

I'm having zero difficulty choosing because I just received the two Riptides my friend painted and for the record: Wow. Not a tactical comment. Just me being impressed with paint.

But on a serious note, the Tau Empire is great for this reason: I can do whatever Deployment shenanigans any army ever dreamt of. I can field anything but a face busting fist-fest (though I actually did better than i hoped when i tried a melee based Tau force. Nothing I'd take to NOVA but infinite fun for the perplexed looks I generated when it won!). You can play the ranged game, Positional dominance game or even try to gunline (blech, but I admit: you can do it).

Isn't it fun to have a toy box that kinda lets you go DO the thing you like DOING. Kill ratios and crap like that are all good and fine, but just the freedom to make lists of all sorts is a joy to me.

Tactics question, a 12 man FW squad is what like 108 points? What do y'all think about adding 20 points for that for x2 turrets? Either to give it SMS for an added x8 shots or maybe just taking a 6 man squad and taking x2 with the missile pods and go light armour hunting? It's gotta be nice they cannot be targeted by the enemy but it really hampers they're movement if you want to use them

I had a small point team tourney a couple weeks ago, and I brought two 7 man FW squads with a missile pod turret in each. They greatly improved the firepower of the squads to the point I wont field foot slogging FWs again without them. I only managed to get in one game before I had to leave in a hurry to get my wife to the hospital(saying that so people don't bitch about packing up I the middle of a tourney). The pods immobilized then next turn killed a rhino(which admittingly I was going to glance it to death anyway most likely once I fired my pulse rifles) and they killed a drop pod which came close to getting line breaker. So yeah, for the cost of a BK'd firewarrior, the turrets are totally worth it.

As for the SMS vs the MP, that's easy, MP all day. You have plenty if S5 firepower from the FWs, and there is very little that really cares if you take away its cover save at AP5.

With the turrest in the FW squads.... do you have to be stationary the turn before, or simply elect not to move and drop the turret ??

I don't think MPs are auto, simply being if your focusing on anit-infantry, having some s5 ignore cover shots could really benefit you (orks, DE, demons, harlis)

Poking at the Riptide Wing. I have yet to use it, because I only own 3 riptides... and the Retaliation Cadre is just too good to pass up in the DBC. I also feel like an asshat if I fielded 4 riptides, when Tau is getting so much hate right now haha.

You know what you can only take 1 turret per squad... Bummer. ^^^you have to be stationary the turn before.

 thefallenjackal wrote:
You know what you can only take 1 turret per squad... Bummer. ^^^you have to be stationary the turn before.

Ufff... yeah unfortunately that will never work for me. I play to mobile an army myself to be able to do that. =)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On that mobile note, has anyone ran the DBC with the counterstrike cadre?

I recently have the devilfish to run it. (and the units!) and it seems pretty decent on paper.. despite its larger point size once you fully upgrade and loadout everything.

 thefallenjackal wrote:
You know what you can only take 1 turret per squad... Bummer. ^^^you have to be stationary the turn before.

False, you can drop the turret any turn as long as you remain stationary in THAT turn. I.e you can have a turn 1 turret, just don't move.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 thefallenjackal wrote:
You know what you can only take 1 turret per squad... Bummer. ^^^you have to be stationary the turn before.

False, you can drop the turret any turn as long as you remain stationary in THAT turn. I.e you can have a turn 1 turret, just don't move.

That makes sense. Strike teams sitting in the back with turrets. Breachers in dfish move forward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 thefallenjackal wrote:
You know what you can only take 1 turret per squad... Bummer. ^^^you have to be stationary the turn before.

False, you can drop the turret any turn as long as you remain stationary in THAT turn. I.e you can have a turn 1 turret, just don't move.

That makes sense. Strike teams sitting in the back with turrets. Breachers in dfish move forward.

The turret is pretty solid, it's basically a special weapon choice that requires you to be stationary the same turn but doesn't replace the regular weapon.

Also no, you don't have to be stationary the turn before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing I haven't seen discussed is the Ethereal formation with a heavy troop army. If you include Aun'va that formation becomes very hard to kill while you get the ability to put out a ton of fire power.

If you're planning on gettin the ethereals a Devilfish you can even grab that Skyray formation for added value.

 Tinkrr wrote:
The turret is pretty solid, it's basically a special weapon choice that requires you to be stationary the same turn but doesn't replace the regular weapon.

Also no, you don't have to be stationary the turn before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing I haven't seen discussed is the Ethereal formation with a heavy troop army. If you include Aun'va that formation becomes very hard to kill while you get the ability to put out a ton of fire power.

If you're planning on gettin the ethereals a Devilfish you can even grab that Skyray formation for added value.

Hard to kill? Any infantry-mowing weapon would drop this unit in a heart beat. Scatter Lasers, bolters, burst cannons, flamers all come to mind

Eh... First you have to GET to him and then you have to kill 7 wounds with three levels of saves. But sure.

 Jancoran wrote:
Eh... First you have to GET to him and then you have to kill 7 wounds with three levels of saves. But sure.

Not worth the 3+ victory points you'll give up on those t3 models.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Eh... First you have to GET to him and then you have to kill 7 wounds with three levels of saves. But sure.

Not worth the 3+ victory points you'll give up on those t3 models.

Luckily you wont be giving any up.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
The turret is pretty solid, it's basically a special weapon choice that requires you to be stationary the same turn but doesn't replace the regular weapon.

Also no, you don't have to be stationary the turn before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing I haven't seen discussed is the Ethereal formation with a heavy troop army. If you include Aun'va that formation becomes very hard to kill while you get the ability to put out a ton of fire power.

If you're planning on gettin the ethereals a Devilfish you can even grab that Skyray formation for added value.

Hard to kill? Any infantry-mowing weapon would drop this unit in a heart beat. Scatter Lasers, bolters, burst cannons, flamers all come to mind

They shrug off all the high AP and thus the High Strength stuff. Then with some shield drones they have a 4+ invul, a 6++ Fnp, and another 4-5+++ Aun'va save. Also don't forget they don't give victory points for drones or honour guard. Also, that's not counting cover and the like.

Ethereal council just sounds all sorts of bad to me.

Aun'Va's scepter thingie counts as a cover save, and its really the only protection they got (6+ FNP against S5 or weaker guns). It can be bypassed really easy with ignores cover or crap AP weapons. If it didnt say "exactly as though a cover save had been made" it wouldnt be so easy to ignore.
And Ethereals have gak armor, so i dont even consider that a level of protection. They either dont get armor, or dont get the scepter bonus (AP- ignores the scepter)

IF they could still be attached to another unit, i'd take a minimal squad because 1 less Ethereal i get all the powers and then some. But as it stands wow theyre easy to remove lol.

Also in regards to the turret thingie: you can move after its been deployed, but if you break coherency with it then it goes away (but can be resummoned next turn at no penalty other than 1 less turn of it shooting). Normally im a RoF guy, i'll use Bursts over a Melta when im after non-vehicles any day of the weak even if it does splat T4 models and pen termie armor, but in this case i'd rather use the MP variant because just about everything the SMS is good at killing, firewarriors already kill pretty damn hard. The MP adds 2 pretty much guaranteed wounds (assuming they hit), pen 4+ armor, and offer a level of anti-vehicle should that situation arise that the FWs can only glance to death.

Stingwings is a subject I would be interested to hear some input on. They've never really been a fan favorite with the Tau generals I have met. Yet I own 27 and do indeed love them.

The fact that they are hit and run is really good. Their weapon is good. they have decent armor and they have good leadership when their leader is around.

The question is, how to use them? well they seem to be paired in the new Formation with Kroot. Why? I think the answer is that the Kroot cannot take a full on squad of Marines but they CAN take on a much reduced one. The Infiltrate of the Kroot can sucker an enemy into range (or they can simply pursue the issue, either way) and then the Stingwings come in, whallop the enemy unit and the Kroot swarm the remnants. Kroot can do a number on a smaller squad through sheer volume of attacks and Hounds will run many enemies down. The kroot weapons do have AP so there's that too against softer armor.

The Stingwings are also very fast and can deep strike. As Line breakers with 4+ armor and hit and run, thats not really the worst I can imagine at the job for the price to get them there.

Anywho, just some musing on them. Ideas? As in, ideas that are insightful?

The wording on it is really wonky as it's not a cover save in itself and functions different, since a cover save can't ever completely negate things at a 1+. More so it's not a cover save as it's a re-rollable extra, meaning you can make an save/cover/Invul, FNP, and then the Aun'va save, I think it just functions in the same way a cover save behaves like an invulnerable save? Does the ITC have rulings on this?

As for their regular save, well don't forget, the two Ethereals with him in the unit can bring Shield Drones for the 4+ invul save, while also giving them a 6++, and the Aun'va save.

Don't forget Aun'va also makes all of your massive troop swarms basically fearless as they get the 10 LD in a 24" bubble, with a rerollable, and then there's also his Warlord trait of being able to take a massive amount of troops to ground while popping right back up next turn.

Basically, if you're going Ethereal Council, you're not playing basic Tau, you're playing Blue Tide.

The save for ethereals isnt a cover save. I wish that unfortunate turn of phrase wasnt there to cast doubt on it. Clearly it doesnt function like one.

oh well. The ITC rulings are easy to google so scope it out and see. I know we play it as "additional" here.

From the ITC FAQ:

The roll made for Aun'Va's Paradox of Duality may be taken in addition to any save the model may attempt. Additionally, weapons that ignore cover do not negate the Paradox of Duality roll.

So yea, Jancoran and I agree on something, it must be the end of the world as we know it D:

That being said, in the latest Signals from the Frontline they kind of, sort of, made fun of Jancoran, and I laugh D:

 Tinkrr wrote:
From the ITC FAQ:

The roll made for Aun'Va's Paradox of Duality may be taken in addition to any save the model may attempt. Additionally, weapons that ignore cover do not negate the Paradox of Duality roll.

So yea, Jancoran and I agree on something, it must be the end of the world as we know it D:

That being said, in the latest Signals from the Frontline they kind of, sort of, made fun of Jancoran, and I laugh D:

The FAQ podcast?

 Jancoran wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
From the ITC FAQ:

The roll made for Aun'Va's Paradox of Duality may be taken in addition to any save the model may attempt. Additionally, weapons that ignore cover do not negate the Paradox of Duality roll.

So yea, Jancoran and I agree on something, it must be the end of the world as we know it D:

That being said, in the latest Signals from the Frontline they kind of, sort of, made fun of Jancoran, and I laugh D:

The FAQ podcast?

Episode 398, they weren't talking about you, just someone who thought a majority wasn't enough majority for rules guidelines voting, which sounded like the thing you were going on about for a while D:

Edit: But seriously what was up with that? Why try to blockade a vote instead of claiming unless there's enough a majority it should be played as the majority vote for a while and then be revoted on in the next vote when it comes up? That seems like a much more reasonable way that also provides a ton of data points :/.

Would Fish Tide be viable? 4 squads of 10 Strikers near an Ethereal Council, and then maybe a OSC for AV?

 Verviedi wrote:
Would Fish Tide be viable? 4 squads of 10 Strikers near an Ethereal Council, and then maybe a OSC for AV?

We don't really know yet to be honest, no one has really tried running Blue Tide yet.

I mean the amount of troops we can bring with an Ethereal formation is pretty insane. Even if you max out on troops with 6 slots, it's only 648pts, that's an insane amount of fire power at any range they are capable of putting out, especially with FNP saves, the ability to run and shoot (Hunter Con or even just Ethereal buff if you really want), and LD 10. Heck with the Hunter Contingent you could still deploy the missile turrets and then run parts of your squad with the special rule in order to advance almost 6" (you only need to be 2" within the turret with one member). I mean really, at 648 points, that's 72 shots at 30", with S5, and the BS skill increases based on number of units targeting one squad, that's not counting missile turrets, or the potential to triple that to 216 shots at 15" range.

I'm just saying 72 S5 shots, and 12 S7 shots at 30" for 708 points is nothing to sneeze at, especially with the potential of it becoming 200+ shots given the chance, since Fire Warriors probably aren't running with LD10 that's rerollable thanks to Aun'va.

Edit: I think the Ethereal Formation can lead to the "Long March" Tau where they slowly crawl across the board with the ability to go to ground and shoot at fool as needed, while also just having enough fire power to take out anything they need. Not only that but they don't really suffer from fear due to the extended Ethereal benefits, along with the extra saves and more. Add in the formation that gives them basic cover if in range (I think it's a Ghostkeel formation) and all of a sudden it's just that much harder to accomplish anything against this blob of stuff that moves across the board and covers most of it.

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Would Fish Tide be viable? 4 squads of 10 Strikers near an Ethereal Council, and then maybe a OSC for AV?

We don't really know yet to be honest, no one has really tried running Blue Tide yet.

I mean the amount of troops we can bring with an Ethereal formation is pretty insane. Even if you max out on troops with 6 slots, it's only 648pts, that's an insane amount of fire power at any range they are capable of putting out, especially with FNP saves, the ability to run and shoot (Hunter Con or even just Ethereal buff if you really want), and LD 10. Heck with the Hunter Contingent you could still deploy the missile turrets and then run parts of your squad with the special rule in order to advance almost 6" (you only need to be 2" within the turret with one member). I mean really, at 648 points, that's 72 shots at 30", with S5, and the BS skill increases based on number of units targeting one squad, that's not counting missile turrets, or the potential to triple that to 216 shots at 15" range.

I'm just saying 72 S5 shots, and 12 S7 shots at 30" for 708 points is nothing to sneeze at, especially with the potential of it becoming 200+ shots given the chance, since Fire Warriors probably aren't running with LD10 that's rerollable thanks to Aun'va.

Edit: I think the Ethereal Formation can lead to the "Long March" Tau where they slowly crawl across the board with the ability to go to ground and shoot at fool as needed, while also just having enough fire power to take out anything they need. Not only that but they don't really suffer from fear due to the extended Ethereal benefits, along with the extra saves and more. Add in the formation that gives them basic cover if in range (I think it's a Ghostkeel formation) and all of a sudden it's just that much harder to accomplish anything against this blob of stuff that moves across the board and covers most of it.

Best version of the "blue tide" that I think becomes viable is three fold.. lets assume 1850 points. .. well I was going to go into a lot of detail.. but I don't feel like typing that much so I will make it quick..

***10 man breacher team with vre and drone is 112 points.
***I don't recall the Council formation exactly.. I am going to guess its 250 points.

The Long March - Essentially your footslogging across the entire table.
Mass breacher teams.
bring 10x10 breacher teams. Your 5++ is essentially making heavy weapon and AP act exactly the same as small arms. Run as fast as you can into their face. You still have 700 points to work with. Council without Aunva in a devilfish for some extra survivability. I would also run the heavy armor formation (the one with 3 hammerheads). That way they can take some threat away from your command fish.

This list is pretty straight forward, but good luck killing 100 breachers before some of them get into your face. Especially with 5++ and 6+ FNP, LD10

Fast is Fast
1 CAD so that you can get your Council in a devilfish, take min kroot if you want too .. lets assume you did.
Take a council without Aun'va put in a devilfish.
Run 2 of the counterstrike cadre formations. First turn they are fast vehicles and every one of your troops is TL when shooting opponents off objectives. Really powerful. You can run breachers or strikers at will doesn't quite matter as much here.
This could pair up nicely again with the same armor formation for a very mecha tau list. Or you could snag some broadsides, or a unit of crisis troops in your CAD to take out some heavier targets.

Tidewall Aun'va
Council on a Droneport, gets you some marker drones too. buy like 4 shield lines, and put strikers on their w/ fireblades. Now they are moving 6" a turn and firing 2 rounds at 30" rerolling 1s. oh and your 6s to save hurt your enemies, nice!
In this version, you don't even need heavy armor as you can just take gunrigs and have your fireblades shoot them.. its glorious!

What do y'all think about the new Firebase support cadre making railsides relevant again? My thought in saying this would be that we no longer have to take x3 models per squad or x6 total to fill out the formation. So I've been outfitting just x1 BS per squad or x2 total and outfitting my riptide with the ion accelorator, TL fusion blaster, stimulant injector and go tank hunting. Being able to combine fire and take advantage of let's say just 2 counters the railsides are hitting on a 2+ and TL. Then they get the tank hunter rule so can reroll failed AP rolls, then the AP1 gives them the +2 on the damage chart. Basically swapping out a "glancing to death" tactic with the missilesides with a "1 shot 1 kill" tactic with the railsides but the biggest advantage is the point difference. With the savings I've been running this formation along side the OSC with 2 squads of x5 stealth to make up for the loss of volume firepower.

 thefallenjackal wrote:
What do y'all think about the new Firebase support cadre making railsides relevant again? My thought in saying this would be that we no longer have to take x3 models per squad or x6 total to fill out the formation. So I've been outfitting just x1 BS per squad or x2 total and outfitting my riptide with the ion accelorator, TL fusion blaster, stimulant injector and go tank hunting. Being able to combine fire and take advantage of let's say just 2 counters the railsides are hitting on a 2+ and TL. Then they get the tank hunter rule so can reroll failed AP rolls, then the AP1 gives them the +2 on the damage chart. Basically swapping out a "glancing to death" tactic with the missilesides with a "1 shot 1 kill" tactic with the railsides but the biggest advantage is the point difference. With the savings I've been running this formation along side the OSC with 2 squads of x5 stealth to make up for the loss of volume firepower.

I like this a lot actually, I am going to have to try it out!

I am so used to thinking of the firebase as it was always played, I never really thought to run it this way. Good catch! I think this plan is not that bad. with 60" range you can pretty much stay out of harms way and be able to help your riptide. personally I would run a burst cannon on the riptide, although riskier without being able to take ECPA currently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crazy concept as well, but thinking in terms of crazy flyrant lists... would it be decent to run a list with like 3 or more coldstar suits?

Assuming 190 points each.. here is what I am thinking.
@1989
4x CADS (300pts) -
Coldstar
2x5 Fire warriors, MP turret

Drone net (224pts)-
4x4 gun drones

Riptide Wing (565pts) -
2x Ion, EWO
1x HBC, EWO

Still have a couple extra points left over.. but figured.. drones would all go with a Coldstar unit.. that way when you drop to hold objectives you have essentially some bodyguard. Your riptide wing is your core tank buster elite killers.. while you have 8 firewarrior squads to take objectives and threaten light armor with MP turrets.

Meanwhile you have 4 Coldstars flying around which many lists may not be able to handle in terms of volume.. hunting rear armor and combining to take out larger squad threats.

What do you think.. I literally came up with this as I was typing it haha, kinda want to try it out.

**EDIT** I realize that this could be done in as few as 2 CADS.. and you can even drop the drone net and just run normal drone squads if you are trying to fit a "3 detachment" system.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Would Fish Tide be viable? 4 squads of 10 Strikers near an Ethereal Council, and then maybe a OSC for AV?

We don't really know yet to be honest, no one has really tried running Blue Tide yet.

I mean the amount of troops we can bring with an Ethereal formation is pretty insane. Even if you max out on troops with 6 slots, it's only 648pts, that's an insane amount of fire power at any range they are capable of putting out, especially with FNP saves, the ability to run and shoot (Hunter Con or even just Ethereal buff if you really want), and LD 10. Heck with the Hunter Contingent you could still deploy the missile turrets and then run parts of your squad with the special rule in order to advance almost 6" (you only need to be 2" within the turret with one member). I mean really, at 648 points, that's 72 shots at 30", with S5, and the BS skill increases based on number of units targeting one squad, that's not counting missile turrets, or the potential to triple that to 216 shots at 15" range.

I'm just saying 72 S5 shots, and 12 S7 shots at 30" for 708 points is nothing to sneeze at, especially with the potential of it becoming 200+ shots given the chance, since Fire Warriors probably aren't running with LD10 that's rerollable thanks to Aun'va.

Edit: I think the Ethereal Formation can lead to the "Long March" Tau where they slowly crawl across the board with the ability to go to ground and shoot at fool as needed, while also just having enough fire power to take out anything they need. Not only that but they don't really suffer from fear due to the extended Ethereal benefits, along with the extra saves and more. Add in the formation that gives them basic cover if in range (I think it's a Ghostkeel formation) and all of a sudden it's just that much harder to accomplish anything against this blob of stuff that moves across the board and covers most of it.

Best version of the "blue tide" that I think becomes viable is three fold.. lets assume 1850 points. .. well I was going to go into a lot of detail.. but I don't feel like typing that much so I will make it quick..

***10 man breacher team with vre and drone is 112 points.
***I don't recall the Council formation exactly.. I am going to guess its 250 points.

The Long March - Essentially your footslogging across the entire table.
Mass breacher teams.
bring 10x10 breacher teams. Your 5++ is essentially making heavy weapon and AP act exactly the same as small arms. Run as fast as you can into their face. You still have 700 points to work with. Council without Aunva in a devilfish for some extra survivability. I would also run the heavy armor formation (the one with 3 hammerheads). That way they can take some threat away from your command fish.

This list is pretty straight forward, but good luck killing 100 breachers before some of them get into your face. Especially with 5++ and 6+ FNP, LD10

Fast is Fast
1 CAD so that you can get your Council in a devilfish, take min kroot if you want too .. lets assume you did.
Take a council without Aun'va put in a devilfish.
Run 2 of the counterstrike cadre formations. First turn they are fast vehicles and every one of your troops is TL when shooting opponents off objectives. Really powerful. You can run breachers or strikers at will doesn't quite matter as much here.
This could pair up nicely again with the same armor formation for a very mecha tau list. Or you could snag some broadsides, or a unit of crisis troops in your CAD to take out some heavier targets.

Tidewall Aun'va
Council on a Droneport, gets you some marker drones too. buy like 4 shield lines, and put strikers on their w/ fireblades. Now they are moving 6" a turn and firing 2 rounds at 30" rerolling 1s. oh and your 6s to save hurt your enemies, nice!
In this version, you don't even need heavy armor as you can just take gunrigs and have your fireblades shoot them.. its glorious!

The formation is just 3+ Ethereals, with the option to take the special ones in it. So at minimum it's 150pts, but if you take Aun'va and four drones, you're at almost 250pts, so you weren't far off.

I think you had a good idea with the allied CAD but the Breachers seem rather odd as they don't give you that amazing fire power from a range as you hop across the board with the spiffy missile turrets that make up for not taking Broadsides or Suits. I mean think of it this way, you drop a Turret in your Hunter Contingent, then you move forward D6, keeping a weird triangle of stuff so the turret is in coherency as required, then you shoot. Next turn you drop the turret in front of the team, and do the D6 move again, moving the back units to keep the turret in coherency while pushing the front units up, basically you're Amoeba-ing across the field as opposed to just rushing in.

You'd still probably have enough points for a Riptide Wing or whatever too D:

Airburst crisis suits: do they make sense?

 Pretzalcoatl wrote:
Airburst crisis suits: do they make sense?

Yes, but I think it would be best to separate them into single or double suit units. Putting THAT much anti infantry killing power into one enemy unit is overkill. I know we have Target Locks, but the weapons only have an 18" range and you could limit your options.

 Pretzalcoatl wrote:
Airburst crisis suits: do they make sense?

Yes they are fantastic! I run a team of x3 with Target Locks and x2 Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors each and they have obliterrated everything I have faced so far. I run a Pure Suit army so having a team of these guys to take down Hordes and even the odds has been invaluable!

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Yes, but I think it would be best to separate them into single or double suit units. Putting THAT much anti infantry killing power into one enemy unit is overkill. I know we have Target Locks, but the weapons only have an 18" range and you could limit your options.

I have found this to be negated by Deep Striking them withing 12 inches of an enemy. You can also ensure they dont scatter thanks to the Counterstrike Cadre and the Pathfinders that come with it, put a Recon Drone in their Devilfish (to give it a Homing beacon) and then zoom up the table as fast as you can.

Airbursts have always been really strong, but only 1 in an army restriction made them kinda pointless. If you were running bursts they were usually useful but who does that lol.

Allowing us to take multiple airbursts and cibs is awesome. Ive ran several lists with a solo duo airbursting crisis suit and he does a lot of damage to troops - like, absurd amounts. I gave him a shield gen so he was 77pts, and man did he need it since he was drawing a lot of firepower lol. Even against marines it does damage since thats a ton of hits firing 2 large blasts - and since its Barrage you can indirect fire it too lol.

Low strength means they wont be doing jack to vehicles or high toughness models, but very few lists field nothing but armor/high toughness. Usually my airbursters die before ive cleaned up all the troops anyway - they always make their points back and then some.

There's always enough anti tank in Tau I feel so yeah not worried

That too.

Even though i usually run high RoF lists, i still dont have many issues with vehicles. AV14 boxes tend to give me problems if my meltas got shafted too quick. Other vehicles, nah.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Airbursts have always been really strong, but only 1 in an army restriction made them kinda pointless. If you were running bursts they were usually useful but who does that lol.

I do and I love them. 129 points (FSE) for 24 s5 shots with JSJ is amazing. Now with +1 BS in retaliation cadre.. they are even better. So good at wiping out troops with high RoF

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Airbursts have always been really strong, but only 1 in an army restriction made them kinda pointless. If you were running bursts they were usually useful but who does that lol.

I do and I love them. 129 points (FSE) for 24 s5 shots with JSJ is amazing. Now with +1 BS in retaliation cadre.. they are even better. So good at wiping out troops with high RoF

Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors are str 4.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Airbursts have always been really strong, but only 1 in an army restriction made them kinda pointless. If you were running bursts they were usually useful but who does that lol.

I do and I love them. 129 points (FSE) for 24 s5 shots with JSJ is amazing. Now with +1 BS in retaliation cadre.. they are even better. So good at wiping out troops with high RoF

Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors are str 4.

Sorry I was saying "I do" to the who runs burst cannon comment.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Airbursts have always been really strong, but only 1 in an army restriction made them kinda pointless. If you were running bursts they were usually useful but who does that lol.

I do and I love them. 129 points (FSE) for 24 s5 shots with JSJ is amazing. Now with +1 BS in retaliation cadre.. they are even better. So good at wiping out troops with high RoF

Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors are str 4.

Sorry I was saying "I do" to the who runs burst cannon comment.

I stand corrected, burst cannons are fun, but I think the AFP has better anti-horde controll.

personally, I think that it might be more advantageous to run one of each, or a dedicated suit with 2 of each on it. If your opponent is clumped up, the AFP will be worth its weight, while the burst cannon is more effective against a more spread out target.

So, what about Warlord Traits, especially for FSE? I like running Broadsides with Plasma Suits, but the chance of getting the rending trait might make the Missile Pod, or even Burst Cannon, suits better. Then again most of the Warlord Traits we have are kind of whatever, and then a handful are really good :/.

 Tinkrr wrote:
So, what about Warlord Traits, especially for FSE? I like running Broadsides with Plasma Suits, but the chance of getting the rending trait might make the Missile Pod, or even Burst Cannon, suits better. Then again most of the Warlord Traits we have are kind of whatever, and then a handful are really good :/.

The FSE traits are meh. But getting the stubburn/MC/Tank hunter one is worth the risk I think haha.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
So, what about Warlord Traits, especially for FSE? I like running Broadsides with Plasma Suits, but the chance of getting the rending trait might make the Missile Pod, or even Burst Cannon, suits better. Then again most of the Warlord Traits we have are kind of whatever, and then a handful are really good :/.

The FSE traits are meh. But getting the stubburn/MC/Tank hunter one is worth the risk I think haha.

Well the Tau Empire ones aren't great either, except for a few.

I think the FSE has a lot of pitfalls, but you can get the one you mentioned, or the Rending one, and there's the one that helps in games you don't want to deepstrike your full Ret Cad, and the one that gives them a minus to their reserve rolls, oh and there was the one that makes your general fearless while giving others stubborn. I feel like really only two or so aren't that great, but with FSE we do get to reroll if we want.

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
So, what about Warlord Traits, especially for FSE? I like running Broadsides with Plasma Suits, but the chance of getting the rending trait might make the Missile Pod, or even Burst Cannon, suits better. Then again most of the Warlord Traits we have are kind of whatever, and then a handful are really good :/.

The FSE traits are meh. But getting the stubburn/MC/Tank hunter one is worth the risk I think haha.

Well the Tau Empire ones aren't great either, except for a few.

I think the FSE has a lot of pitfalls, but you can get the one you mentioned, or the Rending one, and there's the one that helps in games you don't want to deepstrike your full Ret Cad, and the one that gives them a minus to their reserve rolls, oh and there was the one that makes your general fearless while giving others stubborn. I feel like really only two or so aren't that great, but with FSE we do get to reroll if we want.

Yeah I agree. I think FSE is Better then TE. A lot of the time I roll on command traits or the maelstrom table.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
So, what about Warlord Traits, especially for FSE? I like running Broadsides with Plasma Suits, but the chance of getting the rending trait might make the Missile Pod, or even Burst Cannon, suits better. Then again most of the Warlord Traits we have are kind of whatever, and then a handful are really good :/.

The FSE traits are meh. But getting the stubburn/MC/Tank hunter one is worth the risk I think haha.

Well the Tau Empire ones aren't great either, except for a few.

I think the FSE has a lot of pitfalls, but you can get the one you mentioned, or the Rending one, and there's the one that helps in games you don't want to deepstrike your full Ret Cad, and the one that gives them a minus to their reserve rolls, oh and there was the one that makes your general fearless while giving others stubborn. I feel like really only two or so aren't that great, but with FSE we do get to reroll if we want.

Yeah I agree. I think FSE is Better then TE. A lot of the time I roll on command traits or the maelstrom table.

To be fair the TE ones aren't bad either, they're just more list based, but they do let you re-roll pretty easily. Depending on the list I've considered taking Aun'va for the "get down, get up" power, or Shadowsun for the super assault move on a unit. The other traits are still fine, and none of them force you into something if you don't have it, since they can be re-rolled.

If anything, I'd say the Tau traits are the weakest but also the most solid, since you don't really rely on them, but if you play around them you can get a lot of advantage, though you need to constantly plan around them to do so as the game goes on.

I love the trait Aun'Va comes with. Its superlative. Perfect for the way I like to scamper onto the board from all angles, and then i can hit the deck and get heavy duty coversaves and not be penalized because we just pop bvack up from going to ground and continue with plan B

TE warlord traits to me all feel specifically useful. If you get the one that happens to work with your list, awesome! but theres 3-4 others that dont fall under the "If your warlord cant..." comment and you usually get one of those. Unless i ran a named warlord i never got a trait i wanted, and a name warlord usually isnt a wise idea if being competitive. Get one of the others you CAN get but didnt want, it most likely never gets used at all. I can use the Aun'Va one, though i dont typically desire it.

I roll on command traits exclusively now. Add 1 to charge is the only one i dont want period out of there, but i really want the Moves Through Cover, LD10, or Reroll 1s in shooting bubble the most. Its awesome having a commander on one side of your army making everybody ld10 when you already got an ethereal on the other half doing the same lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
TE warlord traits to me all feel specifically useful. If you get the one that happens to work with your list, awesome! but theres 3-4 others that dont fall under the "If your warlord cant..." comment and you usually get one of those. Unless i ran a named warlord i never got a trait i wanted, and a name warlord usually isnt a wise idea if being competitive. Get one of the others you CAN get but didnt want, it most likely never gets used at all. I can use the Aun'Va one, though i dont typically desire it.

I roll on command traits exclusively now. Add 1 to charge is the only one i dont want period out of there, but i really want the Moves Through Cover, LD10, or Reroll 1s in shooting bubble the most. Its awesome having a commander on one side of your army making everybody ld10 when you already got an ethereal on the other half doing the same lol

Exactly. Command table is solid and every thing is useful.

I admit FSE is probably geared towards suit lists which is fine for me.

I do like TE sky fire for a turn. That is awesome but only if you get it.

So heres a thought.

I normally play 2k lists, and i usually avoid the formations because i feel theyre a bit too tournament-type for me (i prefer to have fun, not utterly stomp my opponent in 3 turns or less). So i really didnt think about any way to run the formations except in nonfriendly lists - until i thought about this one.



I tend to play very aggressive with my firewarriors, even against assaulty armies i'll dash forward and get rapid fire as fast as possible and hover around there. I basically will have a gigantic blob of firewarriors that keep running/shooting or shooting/running (depending on if i got rapidifre before or after running) the entire game.

You gotta admit, 60 firewarriors running around like that sounds hilarious and oddly effective. I used to run a lot of ethereal lists with 40 firewarriors, they usually do a ton of damage.

Sorry a bit of a tangent but I really hate how GW does nothing to create and support a local tournament structure that is appealing to casual players specifically, like Magic does, as that's pretty much the life blood of most other games. It's just looking at how well MtG does it leaves me baffled as to why 40k hasn't created something like that.

Thats because "40k is not a competitive game" despite it clearly being played that way by virtually the entire community. One of many flops done by GW.

Well I mean in general, you can make a competitive or none competitive game, and still focus on the casual players with your tournaments the most. If you look at any highly successful game, they broadcast the top end tournament play, but support the low end the most.

Something like FNM for MtG where you get stuff just for participating and there are free promo cards sent to the store that are awarded to both the winner and to random people, so that you don't have to be as competitive to win stuff, in addition to that Pre-releases and such also offer free promos in a very relaxed tournament environment.

Even online games do it, where just for playing in their ranked system you get rewards at the low to mid tier that is very close to the highest tier. I mean Hearthstone gave free card backs for a tier that you'd get as long as you just played, and now offers extra rewards the higher you go, but the amount you gain at the very low tiers is only slightly removed from a high tier. League of Legends is a little harder on the rewards, but you still get stuff even at the lowest tiers, and you only need to be Gold (You start in Silver usually and Gold is next) to get the best reward in the system unless you're trying to be a professional player.

So yea, a company should really encourage the casual tournament circuit, it's the best way to grow your product, because it appeals to all players and it can be done in such a way that it never becomes too cut throat. I know a lot of people will call a tournament "Casual" and leave it at that, which then results in wonky things, but if a company puts in the time they can literally make a casual tournament circuit that never even mentions the word, as in FNM, Pre-release parties, and much more. The important thing is to reward players just enough, without making it overly lucrative, but also making it so that you have the best chance of gaining something good in those events when compared to high end tournaments that pay out better to the top end, but worse to the average player.

For those that recently started playing 40k and wonder why GW do not support tournaments, the is they use to. They use to support casual and competetive play, at every level from local clubs to FLGS to GW stores to regional to national to internation play. They stopped after a content fiasco players dictated the outcome of an international that the company did not support, which was then followed by huge corporate restructuring/downsizing. What you see today is the aftermath of a second restructuring (possibly a third, quiet restructuring), where the current management are apparently oblivious to the "Game" in Games Workshop, with a focus on market shocking with new models, coffee table edition books, and overpriced DLCs. The fact that GW is currently expanding despite a continued drop in sales points to yet another corporate restructuring in the near future. Their current marketing strategy is not sustainable in falling market, although they are apparently diversifying their product line, which is a sounder long term strategy.

In the end, GW support of a tournament scene is not in the current business plan.

SJ

So in general suits with Burst cannons and AFP are against hordes, how do CIB fair?

arthorn wrote:
So in general suits with Burst cannons and AFP are against hordes, how do CIB fair?

They're amazing. I use a full squad of 3 with two each. Getting 6 strength 7 AP 4 shots per suit for that price is a steal. I run mine in a retaliation cadre as part of a dawn blade detachment. They do suffer from limited range which is why they work best as deep strikers (imo). What makes them shine is their versatility. For less than 160 points, a squad of 3 has 18 strength 7 AP 4 shots! This makes them effective against anything without a 2+ save (though they can still threaten these too with the amount of saves they can make them take) or AV 14 (though they can still harm AV 14 with their overcharged blast mode). They may not be quite as good as burst cannons against hordes, plasma against meq or fusion against heavier vehicles but they are close and still very much cost effective against all of the above making the CIB a perfect choice for a TAC list.

you dont need any VRT? dont you use the blast version?

I rarely use the blast version. Small blasts will hit less than 3 shots against all but the most clumped up units and they get hot. I generally don't give them support systems to keep them as cheap and cost effective as possible, but when I do it's usually target locks to split fire or advanced targeting systems for precision shooting. EWO isn't bad (as always) but since I deep strike mine and they only have 18" range I rarely get to use them. As for vectored retro thrusters, I almost never take these since if the suits see combat they will probably be dead before they get to hit and run.

 chalkobob wrote:
I rarely use the blast version. Small blasts will hit less than 3 shots against all but the most clumped up units and they get hot. I generally don't give them support systems to keep them as cheap and cost effective as possible, but when I do it's usually target locks to split fire or advanced targeting systems for precision shooting. EWO isn't bad (as always) but since I deep strike mine and they only have 18" range I rarely get to use them. As for vectored retro thrusters, I almost never take these since if the suits see combat they will probably be dead before they get to hit and run.

The only time I ever use VRTs is on a commander, just incase he gets into combat and you don't want him to be there.

I 2nd the points on CIBs. I think they have some really good potential, the only issue comes down to personal preference if you want WYSIWYG units or not. You may have to find some cheaper alternatives through 2nd party companies to get enough cheap CIBs to field =P

CIBs dominate against Nids right now.. s7 vs. t6 mostly and most MCs for Nids have 3+ saves.. CIBs let you get enough wounds in to be very effective against them with a higher ROF game. Plasma rifles may not do as many wounds against MCs but with ap2, they can negate saves (only issue with Nids is the availability of cover)

I've been doing tests with a VRT Commander joined to a Rail/Plasma Broadside team - the one from the Ret. Cadre. It's a lot of fairly mobile, tough AP2

 raverrn wrote:
I've been doing tests with a VRT Commander joined to a Rail/Plasma Broadside team - the one from the Ret. Cadre. It's a lot of fairly mobile, tough AP2

That is exactly how I run mine.

Fusion blade commander (usually)
2 HYMP, Plasma, target locks
1 HRR, plasma

I realize I am about to get a bunch of "WHY ARE YOU RUNNING HRR, YOUR SILLY, THEY BAD" responses... but consider the Dawn blade contingent I have them in.. with bs4 when they arrive.. and have the mobility and placement of being behind rear armor. being s8 and ap1 (possibly having reroll pens) you have a pretty solid platform for popping vehicles. I have found some success here.. not arguing its the best always!

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 raverrn wrote:
I've been doing tests with a VRT Commander joined to a Rail/Plasma Broadside team - the one from the Ret. Cadre. It's a lot of fairly mobile, tough AP2

That is exactly how I run mine.

Fusion blade commander (usually)
2 HYMP, Plasma, target locks
1 HRR, plasma

I realize I am about to get a bunch of "WHY ARE YOU RUNNING HRR, YOUR SILLY, THEY BAD" responses... but consider the Dawn blade contingent I have them in.. with bs4 when they arrive.. and have the mobility and placement of being behind rear armor. being s8 and ap1 (possibly having reroll pens) you have a pretty solid platform for popping vehicles. I have found some success here.. not arguing its the best always!

Exactly this. The OSC really puts a dent in the need for HYMP - really, how many S7 AP4 shots do you need? - and the FSE rerolls and Relentless both help the HRR enough that it can do good work.

I think in general, if I want a s7 platform, in our current options, I look less at broadsides and look more at ghostkeel and dual CIB crisis suits.

a crisis suit with dual CIBs is like a baby broadside.. granted less range, but you have 100x the mobility. The ghostkeel trades up to be a tanking machine.

I don't have my book and forget off hand, but is the Ghostkeel wing an auxiliary option for Dawn Blade? if it is, I definitely want to try it out. I think it could be a pretty solid way to NULL deploy most of your army and still be tanky enough and dangerous enough to fight that first turn.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

I don't have my book and forget off hand, but is the Ghostkeel wing an auxiliary option for Dawn Blade?

no, it isn't

 Pretzalcoatl wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

I don't have my book and forget off hand, but is the Ghostkeel wing an auxiliary option for Dawn Blade?

no, it isn't

=(

Ghostkeel and Riptide Wing are standalone formations. Which kinda blows but would be rather nasty if they could get DB or HCont bonuses.

Ghostkeel one however is amazing sounding, i really wanna mess with that. Long as 2 units of the 3 are within 6? inches of each other, 12" bubble of Stealth. Ohhh how i would abuse that rofl

I got theree Ghostkeels and they are gonna' be together soon...

Did someone already has experience with Riptide/ghostkeel wings( especially the reactions of other players)?

arthorn wrote:
Did someone already has experience with Riptide/ghostkeel wings( especially the reactions of other players)?

I have fielded the Ghostkeel Wing on 5 occasions. The Stealth/Shrouded from Night Fighting/Conquer of Cities + Ghostkeel Wing has been amazing. Just about all my units were getting a 2+ cover save, except the 'Surge (which our local area's FAQ has Gargantuan only taking cover as a vehicle when 25% obscured). This caused my opponent's shooting to have no quality targets, messing with their target priority. My clubmates know to target Tau Markerlights straight away and keeping them protected when going second has always been a struggle for me. Placing them in reserves is too much of a gamble for my taste, they often come in late. With a 1/3 re-rollable chance to get a Conqueror of Cities or Night Attacker, then even if you don't, still having a 50/50 shot at Night Fighting, most often the Ghostkeel Wing will be giving the whole army a 2+ cover save! The offensive capacity of a Ghostkeel in the Wing is not really devastating without roughly the same amount of Markerlights a Riptide will use, and the Riptide often does it better. The large blast option mitigates some of this, and gives nice tactical flexibility. I also find people often ask "How many Interceptor Large Blasts do you have in your army?" without thinking about how accurate they are with out Markerlights (haven't run the new Drone Network yet) or the AP4 which often can't ignore their armor save (Skyhammer). Psychologically speaking, almost all of my opponents have made it a point to remark on how frustrating it is to not be able to target the Ghostkeel. The Holophoton Countermeasures may be one use only, but I rarely have had to use them at all, as my opponents refuse to waste a quality shooting attack on them. Instead they try to bait me into burning my Countermeasures on attacks that I can let the 2+ cover or 3+ armor handle. My last opponent mentioned more than once how much he would have liked to use the Avenger Gatling Cannon from his Knight on one of my Ghosts, but the risk of all the Knights weapons snap-firing was unacceptable. For myself, this formation has been much better than it appeared on paper. While not offering the devistating firepower of the Riptide Wing or a unit of Stormsurges, there is a tactical aspect to the Ghostkeel Wing that can add exceptional flexability to a list.

Not to mention it actually is fairly costed...

personally, I would probably keep it CIR, Flamer, EWO.

I have enough AV threat anyhow. But this keeps the entire formation to 390 points (393 if FSE), which is not that bad at all considering what it does. Riptide wing is easily over 600 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i really wanna mess with that. Long as 2 units of the 3 are within 6? inches of each other, 12" bubble of Stealth. Ohhh how i would abuse that rofl

Maybe someone could clarify.. I remember it as just a 12" bubble around the ghost in the formation.

Plus, no overwatch when they charge.. which is actually pretty amazing. Ghostkeel are actually pretty good in CC. 4 s6 ap2 attacks (5 on charge I think).

OSC ghostkeels don't need markerlights, especially in hunter cadre (easy to bump up +2 or +3 BS and ignores cover for free), at least, although you are paying a stealth suit tax

 Pretzalcoatl wrote:
OSC ghostkeels don't need markerlights, especially in hunter cadre (easy to bump up +2 or +3 BS and ignores cover for free), at least, although you are paying a stealth suit tax

Stealth suits can have homing beacons for no-scatter turn 2 Retaliation Cadre arrival.

SJ

Stealthsuits are just awesome. I have 20 painted up. We're doing this.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Pretzalcoatl wrote:
OSC ghostkeels don't need markerlights, especially in hunter cadre (easy to bump up +2 or +3 BS and ignores cover for free), at least, although you are paying a stealth suit tax

Stealth suits can have homing beacons for no-scatter turn 2 Retaliation Cadre arrival.

SJ

Essentially how I run my list currently.

Cheers!

Are there any battle reps how show this? I couldnt find one:/

Would love to use the osc then come in with a dawnblade contigent no scatter suits. How many points would you need for an optimaal usages?

arthorn wrote:
Are there any battle reps how show this? I couldnt find one:/

Would love to use the osc then come in with a dawnblade contigent no scatter suits. How many points would you need for an optimaal usages?

The key is to keep your stealth suits out of LOS during that first turn... 2nd turn its important if you want the homing beacon but not tabling important haha.

I have run this variant at 2000 points. The OSC is around 500 or more depending on how many ghostkeel you run and how many stealth in each squad.

The DBC is probably going to run you around 1250-1500 depending on your auxiliary.

To directly answer your question.... I would say atleast 1850 points to run OSC with a DBC

Cheers!

I have used the Riptide Wing four times now and it is absolutely devastating. They effectively become GMCs in shooting because they can make each shooting attack at a separate unit, so none of your shots go to waste. I highly recommend at least one IA for range/armor ignoring purposes and the other two should be HBC. Give each of them SMS and rip into your opponents with effective alpha strike damage. Just make sure you have enough markerlights to really bring it home.

Two of my games were against a Renegade Artillery eith Necron Decurion army. Both games earned two dead spiders, one dead wraith unit, one dead scarab unit, and an artillery team that ran away. It was so potent that my opponent is considering swapping the decurion out with two Riptide Wings.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
Maybe someone could clarify.. I remember it as just a 12" bubble around the ghost in the formation.

You are correct. Any unit that wants the Stealth Field bonus must be within 12" of two units from the Ghost Wing.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
Plus, no overwatch when they charge.. which is actually pretty amazing. Ghostkeel are actually pretty good in CC. 4 s6 ap2 attacks (5 on charge I think).

I agree! Their ability to assault catches people off guard. Only 3 base attacks, but if you pick your targets carefully (Bikes/jetbikes/Devs/Cents/Artillery/transports) they really can fill a valuable role in a phase where we usually don't participate at all. The Stealth Drone's I4 also gives you a puncher's chance to sweep/catch if you opponent fails the Morale check.

 Plainshow wrote:
The Stealth Drone's I4 also gives you a puncher's chance to sweep/catch if you opponent fails the Morale check.

It funny thinking that a unit of jetbikes or whatever gets caught by drones and absolutely destroyed.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Plainshow wrote:
The Stealth Drone's I4 also gives you a puncher's chance to sweep/catch if you opponent fails the Morale check.

It funny thinking that a unit of jetbikes or whatever gets caught by drones and absolutely destroyed.

Beware the flying frisbees of DOOM!

 ZergSmasher wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 Plainshow wrote:
The Stealth Drone's I4 also gives you a puncher's chance to sweep/catch if you opponent fails the Morale check.

It funny thinking that a unit of jetbikes or whatever gets caught by drones and absolutely destroyed.

Beware the flying frisbees of DOOM!

The same Frisbee can block a stompa from your gun line, lol. (Actually happened)

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 raverrn wrote:
I've been doing tests with a VRT Commander joined to a Rail/Plasma Broadside team - the one from the Ret. Cadre. It's a lot of fairly mobile, tough AP2

That is exactly how I run mine.

Fusion blade commander (usually)
2 HYMP, Plasma, target locks
1 HRR, plasma

I realize I am about to get a bunch of "WHY ARE YOU RUNNING HRR, YOUR SILLY, THEY BAD" responses... but consider the Dawn blade contingent I have them in.. with bs4 when they arrive.. and have the mobility and placement of being behind rear armor. being s8 and ap1 (possibly having reroll pens) you have a pretty solid platform for popping vehicles. I have found some success here.. not arguing its the best always!

Because when you deepstrike and can walk, the insignificant range difference is even less relevant.
And the HYMP does more damage to tank rears than the HRR, despite the AP1 factor.

Hey, i had a "frisbee" take out a terminator lol. It can happen.

And yeah i abuse that I4 when i can. VRTs with a drone alive is very good fleeing odds.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
VRTs with a drone alive is very good fleeing odds.

Just not wit Ghostkeels. Ah well!

Drones are the best CC unit. Ever. I have one marker drone named Stubby, the Little Drone that Could. He got his name when in one game his unit was charged by a SM attack bike. The bike killed his buddies in short order. But Stubby held him in combat for 3 turns before finally killing him in CC turn 5. Since then, I have kept a tally of Stubby's CC kills (roll for him separately from the unit). To date, not including the attack bike, Stubby has killed 6 Tactical Marines, 1 Marine Sergeant with a powerfist, and a DA bike in CC.

Fear the wrath of the Drones. Fear Stubby.

In all seriousness, yes that I4 from Drones for hit and run can be a life saver.

 GI_Redshirt wrote:
Fear the wrath of the Drones. Fear Stubby.

Stubby the Murder-Drone-12pts

Question to anyone who has a few games with the Hunter Contingent+Stormsurge and the ITC rules:
-How many Markerlights do you run and of what type?
The Contingent seem to mitigate the need for Markers somewhat, but His Holiness of Surging Storms eats them like Cookie Monster in Toll House factory. Where have you found the balance?

I am putting the Ghostkeels together and man... not a simple assembly. There are parts that just... confound me! the piece that the TL Melta goes on for example does not seat in where it's supposed to very easily. annoying! having said that this model is really really cool. Cockpit flips open which is pretty sweet. Some other nice touches. its a really nice model.

 Jancoran wrote:
I am putting the Ghostkeels together and man... not a simple assembly. There are parts that just... confound me! the piece that the TL Melta goes on for example does not seat in where it's supposed to very easily. annoying! having said that this model is really really cool. Cockpit flips open which is pretty sweet. Some other nice touches. its a really nice model.

Yeah the pieces where the Twin linked guns have to be exactly perfect or your those little guns will be angled pretty badly.
The cockpit that opens is also hard to paint because every time you move the hinge it peels the paint away

The pieces the guns sit on took me a bit to realize how they go together. The part that connects to the body has to be on the inside, i.e. closer to the jetpack.

But yeah those kits are a nightmare to figure out lol. I spent a good 3 hours putting together my first one (i have 3), and that wasnt even "finished" assembly because i refused to put the arms, thigh pads, helmet, or jetpack on it until it was painted lol. So many pieces you gotta glue with another piece inside that you cant glue beforehand (or at least easily) lol

Just wait until you try to pose them differently. THIS little runt took me about an hour of finagling to get in this pose lol....


Originally wanted him to be running, but couldnt get him to look like it without having a noticeable "imminent faceplant!" look lol so i just settled on walking pose.
I love the posability their leg/arm design offers just like riptides/surges, but MAN is it a pain to get it in the right pose

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I am putting the Ghostkeels together and man... not a simple assembly. There are parts that just... confound me! the piece that the TL Melta goes on for example does not seat in where it's supposed to very easily. annoying! having said that this model is really really cool. Cockpit flips open which is pretty sweet. Some other nice touches. its a really nice model.

Yeah the pieces where the Twin linked guns have to be exactly perfect or your those little guns will be angled pretty badly.
The cockpit that opens is also hard to paint because every time you move the hinge it peels the paint away

I actually did not find the model terribly difficult to assemble, but I did glue the cockpit shut (usually not gonna open it during a game anyway). I posed mine in the stock pose, and it looks just fine. As for getting the TL guns right, it took a little effort, but I think I did okay. Probably the fiddliest thing of all in a very cool model.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The pieces the guns sit on took me a bit to realize how they go together. The part that connects to the body has to be on the inside, i.e. closer to the jetpack.

But yeah those kits are a nightmare to figure out lol. I spent a good 3 hours putting together my first one (i have 3), and that wasnt even "finished" assembly because i refused to put the arms, thigh pads, helmet, or jetpack on it until it was painted lol. So many pieces you gotta glue with another piece inside that you cant glue beforehand (or at least easily) lol

Just wait until you try to pose them differently. THIS little runt took me about an hour of finagling to get in this pose lol....

Spoiler:

Originally wanted him to be running, but couldnt get him to look like it without having a noticeable "imminent faceplant!" look lol so i just settled on walking pose.
I love the posability their leg/arm design offers just like riptides/surges, but MAN is it a pain to get it in the right pose

Freakin sweet.

After having run the OSC, I fell in love with ghostkeels. It also validates my love of stealthsuits as it makes them useable again. I havent tried multiple keels yet, but probably next time.

So I bought a copy of the original Tau Codex, am I the only one who likes Aun'shi so much more in that version than what we have now? It feels like he was less points, had better abilities, and was just more interesting. It's like they tried to streamline things, but failed, and then gave up so that things like Aun'shi have rules bloat but cost too much to matter.

 Tinkrr wrote:
So I bought a copy of the original Tau Codex, am I the only one who likes Aun'shi so much more in that version than what we have now? It feels like he was less points, had better abilities, and was just more interesting. It's like they tried to streamline things, but failed, and then gave up so that things like Aun'shi have rules bloat but cost too much to matter.

huh? you would rather have 'Price of Failure' rather than 'Failure is not an option'? reminds me of the one time that I saw him in an infantry tournament list - I shot him off the board and waited while the rest of them ran off the field.

Ethereals as a whole were terrible in that codex. They didnt give you a VP for killing them, but they instead crippled the entire Tau army.

If Aun'Shi didnt have that too, i'd like him. But since hes so easy to remove then and now, hell no.

I freaking love Aun'Shi's original fluf and entry(so much so that my tag for a lot of things,including xbox was AunShi420 for a while).

only took him once and he didnt die but he didnt do much either.

Now though? Im just not a fan of ethereals in general, so i dont take them, escpecially not an overpriced one.

 Wolfnid420 wrote:
I freaking love Aun'Shi's original fluf and entry(so much so that my tag for a lot of things,including xbox was AunShi420 for a while).

only took him once and he didnt die but he didnt do much either.

Now though? Im just not a fan of ethereals in general, so i dont take them, escpecially not an overpriced one.

Aun'Va for the win

That link is what I have to say about Ethereals. Lol.

So since picking up the Mon't Ka book I played a couple of games vs a marine Battle Company spamming Grav.

First game I used Tau Empire formations (Hunter + retal as aux and Drone thingy slapped on).
Second game I used FSE: Retaliation, Drone Net, Ranged Support.

Good Things: Retaliation broadsides + Drone Net.
Take the 12pt missle drones, little more risky scatter (But you can put a drone first and make the original scatter saver).

Your drones are now BS4 the turn they deep strike. (+1 from Drone net, +1 from Retal DS. ) Both Broadsides had target lock, felt like Deep Striking Centurions.

Retaliation Squadron turn 2 deploy. Even without any DS homers range on tau guns is enough to pick save scatter spots. VS. Battle company it means you are not going to get caught in a corner; you clear your drop zone and use superior range to destroy grav. Even managed to win Mael storm vs. 10 rhino's!)

In the Hunter Cadre I used the Storm Surge, Firepower is very good... but he's only in one place, 420 points... I think he's fair but I'd rather have more units.

Ranged Support Cadre was really nice, Used 2 HRR Broadsides in the rear, 2x1 HYMP, all with drones, (+1BS baby!). Gave 2 of the pathfinders Recon Drones to bring my tricked out Retal in in the right place, and one of the drone squadrons was gun drones outflanking. Opponent now really doesn't want to get close to the Pathfinders because anything within 18'' of them will die. Really like this formation.


The bad: Coldstar, used him as the Retaliation commander. I like the very flexible movement but the firepower..... really disappointing for 170ish points (Shield Generator). Maybe it was because I was playing vs. Marines but it was really underwhelming, Probably won't use him again despite loving the model.

My question to everyone; How do you equip the Retaliation Riptide? I want to use the Heavy Burst Cannon but it's so bad without nova charge.... Also if you use the Ion Accelerator do you still give it EWO? ( think must be yes for flexibility).

EDIT: Missing words.

 Fruzzle wrote:
So since picking up the Mon't Ka book I played a couple of games vs a marine Battle Company spamming Grav.

First game I used Tau Empire formations (Hunter + retal as aux and Drone thingy slapped on).
Second game I used FSE: Retaliation, Drone Net, Ranged Support.

Good Things: Retaliation broadsides + Drone Net.
Take the 12pt missle drones, little more risky scatter (But you can put a drone first and make the original scatter saver).

Your drones are now BS4 the turn they deep strike. (+1 from Drone net, +1 from Retal DS. ) Both Broadsides had target lock, felt like Deep Striking Centurions.

Retaliation Squadron turn 2 deploy. Even without any DS homers range on tau guns is enough to pick save scatter spots. VS. Battle company it means you are not going to get caught in a corner; you clear your drop zone and use superior range to destroy grav. Even managed to win Mael storm vs. 10 rhino's!)

In the Hunter Cadre I used the Storm Surge, Firepower is very good... but he's only in one place, 420 points... I think he's fair but I'd rather have more units.

Ranged Support Cadre was really nice, Used 2 HRR Broadsides in the rear, 2x1 HYMP, all with drones, (+1BS baby!). Gave 2 of the pathfinders Recon Drones to bring my tricked out Retal in in the right place, and one of the drone squadrons was gun drones outflanking. Opponent now really doesn't want to get close to the Pathfinders because anything within 18'' of them will die. Really like this formation.


The bad: Coldstar, used him as the Retaliation commander. I like the very flexible movement but the firepower..... really disappointing for 170ish points (Shield Generator). Maybe it was because I was playing vs. Marines but it was really underwhelming, Probably won't use him again despite loving the model.

My question to everyone; How do you equip the Retaliation Riptide? I want to use the Heavy Burst Cannon but it's so bad without nova charge.... Also if you use the Ion Accelerator do you still give it EWO? ( think must be yes for flexibility).

EDIT: Missing words.

Thanks for the reports from the front.

I personally use the Ion Accelerator because with Markerlights, I never miss. I also love Early Warning Override. Its cheap and it says to opponents: are you sure you really wanna' deep strike and shoot?

I get First blood a lot from that thing too. For the points... Even if you didnt use it once, it affects the enemy just by telling them you can.

how you equip riptide depends on how you equip the rest of the army. I use three riptides, 2 IA + tl sm and 1 HBC + tl plasma. So far HBC has been working really well for me. I always put EWO and target Lock on my riptides since i play hunter cadre with full CF. I always nova all my riptides every turn, drastically increase their firepower and mobility, which is often the game winning factor when i play largely static hunter cadre. I am in my final round in my local tournament with 4 wins and 0 lost on maelstrom games.

Thought I would chime in on these battle reports.

@2k ran DBC, retaliation and counter strike cadre (1 carbines, 2 breacher, pathfinders had recon drone)

Maelstrom against a 7 pod BA + skyhammer Annihilation formation.

First, skyhammer is gross.. 90% of my overwatch was stopped. Fortunately breachers are amazing in overwatch against marines and poor placement on some models.

As always I love the DBC and I forgot to use my Doom bonus. Still won turn 4 17-10 when he conceded.

Counter strike was amazing.... Fast skimmers got me major points turn 1, and twin linked really helped them. No need for markerlights aside from that one unit.

MVP was the carbine warriors who with emp assaulted and killed a death co dread after two rounds of CC lol

 Fruzzle wrote:
The bad: Coldstar, used him as the Retaliation commander. I like the very flexible movement but the firepower..... really disappointing for 170ish points (Shield Generator). Maybe it was because I was playing vs. Marines but it was really underwhelming, Probably won't use him again despite loving the model.

Any thoughts on what to do with the Commander in a Dawn Blade if it isn't a Coldstar? Mr. Swoopysuit has been my default for sketching out builds in an FSE detachment both because I love the model but also because I can't figure out what the hell to do with him without TE Sig Systems. Every report I've heard of him in use has been extremely underwhelming and at this point I'm debating whether I'm even going to bother picking up an extra Commander to build him if he's so lackluster on the table. One idea I had was to give the Commander XV84 armor (the networked markerlight one from Taros) and a TL missile pod (since, presumably, the networked markerlight would count as firing a weapon leaving him with one other weapon) and stick him in with the broadsides. The list I was looking at was minimum squad size crisis suits so it wouldn't make much sense to put him in there. XV84 is legal in an FSE detachment, right? There's no ruling on it in the ITC FAQ last time I looked but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in an ITC FSE list before.

Coldstar mainly shines at picking off rear armor vehicles, especially fliers, since FMCs dont have facing requirements.

I wish i could exchange his weapons, but i can easily see him becoming broken as hell if we could slap duo fusions/plasmas on him. Ive used him in about 10-11 games so far, hes died once and hasnt at least been a major thorn in the side a couple of times. The other 7 times i brought him he took various fliers, pinged rear armor IG tanks, and really annoyed light vehicles if not rip them apart.

Sadly thats about all hes good for is vehicle kills, with rear 12 or higher problems (i wouldnt bank on 2 MP destroying rear 12 vehicles). Burst cannon usually hits all 6 shots and wounds reliably but doesnt pen anything. Usually kills a marine a turn if hes not hitting a vehicle.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
Thought I would chime in on these battle reports.

@2k ran DBC, retaliation and counter strike cadre (1 carbines, 2 breacher, pathfinders had recon drone)

Maelstrom against a 7 pod BA + skyhammer Annihilation formation.

First, skyhammer is gross.. 90% of my overwatch was stopped. Fortunately breachers are amazing in overwatch against marines and poor placement on some models.

As always I love the DBC and I forgot to use my Doom bonus. Still won turn 4 17-10 when he conceded.

Counter strike was amazing.... Fast skimmers got me major points turn 1, and twin linked really helped them. No need for markerlights aside from that one unit.

MVP was the carbine warriors who with emp assaulted and killed a death co dread after two rounds of CC lol

One of the main reasons why I'm building my DBC around a Drone-Net is that all Drones will have Interceptor, which pretty much neuters Skyhammer if you also go heavy on EWO suits.

SJ

Narfwak wrote:

 Fruzzle wrote:
The bad: Coldstar, used him as the Retaliation commander. I like the very flexible movement but the firepower..... really disappointing for 170ish points (Shield Generator). Maybe it was because I was playing vs. Marines but it was really underwhelming, Probably won't use him again despite loving the model.

Any thoughts on what to do with the Commander in a Dawn Blade if it isn't a Coldstar? Mr. Swoopysuit has been my default for sketching out builds in an FSE detachment both because I love the model but also because I can't figure out what the hell to do with him without TE Sig Systems. Every report I've heard of him in use has been extremely underwhelming and at this point I'm debating whether I'm even going to bother picking up an extra Commander to build him if he's so lackluster on the table. One idea I had was to give the Commander XV84 armor (the networked markerlight one from Taros) and a TL missile pod (since, presumably, the networked markerlight would count as firing a weapon leaving him with one other weapon) and stick him in with the broadsides. The list I was looking at was minimum squad size crisis suits so it wouldn't make much sense to put him in there. XV84 is legal in an FSE detachment, right? There's no ruling on it in the ITC FAQ last time I looked but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in an ITC FSE list before.

Give him two missile pods, drone controller, 3 MP suits with target lock, and 6 marker drones. Now you have a jsj marker unit hitting on 2s.

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Narfwak wrote:

 Fruzzle wrote:
The bad: Coldstar, used him as the Retaliation commander. I like the very flexible movement but the firepower..... really disappointing for 170ish points (Shield Generator). Maybe it was because I was playing vs. Marines but it was really underwhelming, Probably won't use him again despite loving the model.

Any thoughts on what to do with the Commander in a Dawn Blade if it isn't a Coldstar? Mr. Swoopysuit has been my default for sketching out builds in an FSE detachment both because I love the model but also because I can't figure out what the hell to do with him without TE Sig Systems. Every report I've heard of him in use has been extremely underwhelming and at this point I'm debating whether I'm even going to bother picking up an extra Commander to build him if he's so lackluster on the table. One idea I had was to give the Commander XV84 armor (the networked markerlight one from Taros) and a TL missile pod (since, presumably, the networked markerlight would count as firing a weapon leaving him with one other weapon) and stick him in with the broadsides. The list I was looking at was minimum squad size crisis suits so it wouldn't make much sense to put him in there. XV84 is legal in an FSE detachment, right? There's no ruling on it in the ITC FAQ last time I looked but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in an ITC FSE list before.

Give him two missile pods, drone controller, 3 MP suits with target lock, and 6 marker drones. Now you have a jsj marker unit hitting on 2s.

Just keep in mind those marker drones won't help that unit

notredameguy10 wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Narfwak wrote:

 Fruzzle wrote:
The bad: Coldstar, used him as the Retaliation commander. I like the very flexible movement but the firepower..... really disappointing for 170ish points (Shield Generator). Maybe it was because I was playing vs. Marines but it was really underwhelming, Probably won't use him again despite loving the model.

Any thoughts on what to do with the Commander in a Dawn Blade if it isn't a Coldstar? Mr. Swoopysuit has been my default for sketching out builds in an FSE detachment both because I love the model but also because I can't figure out what the hell to do with him without TE Sig Systems. Every report I've heard of him in use has been extremely underwhelming and at this point I'm debating whether I'm even going to bother picking up an extra Commander to build him if he's so lackluster on the table. One idea I had was to give the Commander XV84 armor (the networked markerlight one from Taros) and a TL missile pod (since, presumably, the networked markerlight would count as firing a weapon leaving him with one other weapon) and stick him in with the broadsides. The list I was looking at was minimum squad size crisis suits so it wouldn't make much sense to put him in there. XV84 is legal in an FSE detachment, right? There's no ruling on it in the ITC FAQ last time I looked but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in an ITC FSE list before.

Give him two missile pods, drone controller, 3 MP suits with target lock, and 6 marker drones. Now you have a jsj marker unit hitting on 2s.

Just keep in mind those marker drones won't help that unit

He means use a normal commander with 2x missle pod, target lock and drone controller.

The problem is that if you use the retaliation squadron as the core you don't want to start him on the table. You can still use the montka formation without being enclave right? My plan for next game is to make tank commander for 5 crisis suits and deepstrike together. Without TE I'd maybe give him fusion blades or the warscaper drone and deepstrike into cover.

It's this same problem that led to me trying out the cold star but.... I'd rather use like double plasma commander, cheaper and better.

I'm liking the Drone-Net with a Ret Cadre, for army wide buffed Drones. Let's me focus my Commander for supporting the Boardsides with even more Missiles Pods.

SJ

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Coldstar mainly shines at picking off rear armor vehicles, especially fliers, since FMCs dont have facing requirements.

I wish i could exchange his weapons, but i can easily see him becoming broken as hell if we could slap duo fusions/plasmas on him. Ive used him in about 10-11 games so far, hes died once and hasnt at least been a major thorn in the side a couple of times. The other 7 times i brought him he took various fliers, pinged rear armor IG tanks, and really annoyed light vehicles if not rip them apart.

Sadly thats about all hes good for is vehicle kills, with rear 12 or higher problems (i wouldnt bank on 2 MP destroying rear 12 vehicles). Burst cannon usually hits all 6 shots and wounds reliably but doesnt pen anything. Usually kills a marine a turn if hes not hitting a vehicle.

Well, with the super burst cannon, he's also decent at clearing fodder. But then again, what in tau isn't?

The. Last thing he has going for him, is drone taxi. The fact he can get the drones he is with to do off board while he flies allows for some neat tricks, you deploy him in a large squad, and carry them to the front, bonus points for network drones.

 Fruzzle wrote:


The problem is that if you use the retaliation squadron as the core you don't want to start him on the table. You can still use the montka formation without being enclave right? My plan for next game is to make tank commander for 5 crisis suits and deepstrike together. Without TE I'd maybe give him fusion blades or the warscaper drone and deepstrike into cover.

It's this same problem that led to me trying out the cold star but.... I'd rather use like double plasma commander, cheaper and better.

Are you talking about the Dawnblade Detachment? That must be FSE.

 Fruzzle wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:

Narfwak wrote:

 Fruzzle wrote:
The bad: Coldstar, used him as the Retaliation commander. I like the very flexible movement but the firepower..... really disappointing for 170ish points (Shield Generator). Maybe it was because I was playing vs. Marines but it was really underwhelming, Probably won't use him again despite loving the model.

Any thoughts on what to do with the Commander in a Dawn Blade if it isn't a Coldstar? Mr. Swoopysuit has been my default for sketching out builds in an FSE detachment both because I love the model but also because I can't figure out what the hell to do with him without TE Sig Systems. Every report I've heard of him in use has been extremely underwhelming and at this point I'm debating whether I'm even going to bother picking up an extra Commander to build him if he's so lackluster on the table. One idea I had was to give the Commander XV84 armor (the networked markerlight one from Taros) and a TL missile pod (since, presumably, the networked markerlight would count as firing a weapon leaving him with one other weapon) and stick him in with the broadsides. The list I was looking at was minimum squad size crisis suits so it wouldn't make much sense to put him in there. XV84 is legal in an FSE detachment, right? There's no ruling on it in the ITC FAQ last time I looked but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in an ITC FSE list before.

Give him two missile pods, drone controller, 3 MP suits with target lock, and 6 marker drones. Now you have a jsj marker unit hitting on 2s.

Just keep in mind those marker drones won't help that unit

No he specifically said also 3 crisis suits with 2 MP each. I was just making the comment as a reminder that those will not get to use the marker drones

He means use a normal commander with 2x missle pod, target lock and drone controller.

The problem is that if you use the retaliation squadron as the core you don't want to start him on the table. You can still use the montka formation without being enclave right? My plan for next game is to make tank commander for 5 crisis suits and deepstrike together. Without TE I'd maybe give him fusion blades or the warscaper drone and deepstrike into cover.

It's this same problem that led to me trying out the cold star but.... I'd rather use like double plasma commander, cheaper and better.

So I'm thinking of adding some Tau to my Necron army as the fire support component. I'm solid on the Necron side but I'm caught between two roughly same costed options. In a vacuum, which do you think is stronger?

Riptide wing:
3x riptide with IA and EWO

Or

2x retaliation cadre:
Riptide with IA and EWO
2x broadsides with HYMP, SMS

The two retaliation cadre option offers more diverse firepower but the single riptide wing has better bonuses. I'm no Tau expert so any thoughts are appreciated.

 buddha wrote:
So I'm thinking of adding some Tau to my Necron army as the fire support component. I'm solid on the Necron side but I'm caught between two roughly same costed options. In a vacuum, which do you think is stronger?

Riptide wing:
3x riptide with IA and EWO

Or

2x retaliation cadre:
Riptide with IA and EWO
2x broadsides with HYMP, SMS

The two retaliation cadre option offers more diverse firepower but the single riptide wing has better bonuses. I'm no Tau expert so any thoughts are appreciated.

2 Retaliation Cadres is probably the way to go.

Isn't 2 Retaliation Cadres maybe a bit of overkill as an allied force? Assuming you equip them resonably, that's at least ~1000 points of stuff. I think the Riptide wing is a better bet, in any event. Necrons aren't terribly short on high-strength, poor AP weapons, so a few ion accelerators are just what the doctor ordered. Riptides also fit the Necron theme of ridiculous durability nicely.

MilkmanAl wrote:
Isn't 2 Retaliation Cadres maybe a bit of overkill as an allied force? Assuming you equip them resonably, that's at least ~1000 points of stuff. I think the Riptide wing is a better bet, in any event. Necrons aren't terribly short on high-strength, poor AP weapons, so a few ion accelerators are just what the doctor ordered. Riptides also fit the Necron theme of ridiculous durability nicely.

A third Riptide is overkill and the Broadsides can bring Markerlights the Riptides are going to appreciate.

 buddha wrote:
So I'm thinking of adding some Tau to my Necron army as the fire support component. I'm solid on the Necron side but I'm caught between two roughly same costed options. In a vacuum, which do you think is stronger?

Riptide wing:
3x riptide with IA and EWO

Or

2x retaliation cadre:
Riptide with IA and EWO
2x broadsides with HYMP, SMS

The two retaliation cadre option offers more diverse firepower but the single riptide wing has better bonuses. I'm no Tau expert so any thoughts are appreciated.

I agree.. Riptide wing is probably your best go. The retaliation cadre while very good is not that cheap. Don't forget you have 3x crisis suit squads as well, and fully equipped as stated, your paying ~1000 points. You can knock off some cost with single suits but your still talking ~800 points.

You could do some cool riptide conversions for crons too!

so. . . tactics.
anyone ever use Target Locks on solo suits? Thinking something like Target Lock on a riptide. Ignoring CFP, I say that the Riptide(unit) is targeting a unit within assault range, use the Target Lock to allow the Riptide(model) shoot at another target, then assault the first target that the unit shot at, but didn't actually fire any weapons at?

 carldooley wrote:
so. . . tactics.
anyone ever use Target Locks on solo suits? Thinking something like Target Lock on a riptide. Ignoring CFP, I say that the Riptide(unit) is targeting a unit within assault range, use the Target Lock to allow the Riptide(model) shoot at another target, then assault the first target that the unit shot at, but didn't actually fire any weapons at?

Target Locks only allow you to fire at a different target than the rest of the unit.

 Jancoran wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
so. . . tactics.
anyone ever use Target Locks on solo suits? Thinking something like Target Lock on a riptide. Ignoring CFP, I say that the Riptide(unit) is targeting a unit within assault range, use the Target Lock to allow the Riptide(model) shoot at another target, then assault the first target that the unit shot at, but didn't actually fire any weapons at?

Target Locks only allow you to fire at a different target than the rest of the unit.

Exactly. Riptide with Target Lock. Unit fires at something within assault range. Target Lock allows the Riptide(model) to shoot at something else. Then the Riptide assaults the unit that its unit shot at. Unit=\=Model rules.

 carldooley wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
so. . . tactics.
anyone ever use Target Locks on solo suits? Thinking something like Target Lock on a riptide. Ignoring CFP, I say that the Riptide(unit) is targeting a unit within assault range, use the Target Lock to allow the Riptide(model) shoot at another target, then assault the first target that the unit shot at, but didn't actually fire any weapons at?

Target Locks only allow you to fire at a different target than the rest of the unit.

Exactly. Riptide with Target Lock. Unit fires at something within assault range. Target Lock allows the Riptide(model) to shoot at something else. Then the Riptide assaults the unit that its unit shot at. Unit=\=Model rules.

I think Im misunderstanding you. You said SOLO suits. So a Solo suit gets nothing out of a Target Lock. A model can only fire at one target. if you have a target lock it allows the model with it to fire at a different target than the rest of its unit. So no. This does not work.

Shadowsun has a special exception. She actually has something that allows hr to split her meltas into two different targets, and Super heavies and such have such a rule. normal models do not.

 carldooley wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
so. . . tactics.
anyone ever use Target Locks on solo suits? Thinking something like Target Lock on a riptide. Ignoring CFP, I say that the Riptide(unit) is targeting a unit within assault range, use the Target Lock to allow the Riptide(model) shoot at another target, then assault the first target that the unit shot at, but didn't actually fire any weapons at?

Target Locks only allow you to fire at a different target than the rest of the unit.

Exactly. Riptide with Target Lock. Unit fires at something within assault range. Target Lock allows the Riptide(model) to shoot at something else. Then the Riptide assaults the unit that its unit shot at. Unit=\=Model rules.

Essentially you could do that if you brought a drone with you. Unit (drone) fires at something you want to assault or otherwise, riptide target locks something else.

If you only have a riptide, the "unit" can't target anything because their are no models to target. since the targeting all happens simultaneously.

If you go with the Riptide Wing, which I highly recommend, take Early Warning Override, Sms and at leat one heavy burst cannon.. 12 str 6 ap 4 rending shots is nothing you should ignore.