Should be a smaller selection of the sprues from the launch box... the biggest true Starter Box will have the two Spearhead forces and not extra stuff like the Ratling Cannon most likely. Just going off the Leviathan sets.
Since GW likes to mirror things between AoS and 40k and going by the 40k starter boxes.
Intro set, same or 10% more expensive price than 40k one. 5 Liberators, 10 Clanrats and the 5 paints, clippers, measuring stick and board along with beginner handbook.
Since GW put the full combat patrols in the Ultimate set we can conclude it's the already revealed Spearhead contents. Again same or 10% more expensive than 40k now.
Now the problem is with the mid tier starter. The 40k version is almost but not quite the two Combat Patrols, it's missing the Barbgaunts and the Librarian Termie.
Maybe the mid tier will lose the Grey Seer and the Lord-Veritant? Or one side will lose one of it's bigger trios, the Rat-Ogres or Prosecutors?
The big difference is terrain, the AoS box came with a little terrain, the 40k one didn't come with any but it's ultimate version had a lot.
Maybe since Spearhead is being pushed much more (And may have been ingrained more than with 10th 40k Combat Patrol) they'll have both the bigger starter sets with full Spearheads and maybe the ultimate version comes with some more terrain and 2 more HQs?
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I keep hearing how Olde Wirlde players will snatch this box up for Skaven but by all reports AoS outsells WHFB so I cant imagine New WHFB suddenly cannibalizing AoS.
We will see I guess.
At risk of being somewhat pedantic, that's not what sales cannibalisation is, it would only be cannibalisation if the TOW players were buying AoS Skaven instead of an army in the existing TOW range.
You've got a point, it would cannibalize demand I guess? Diverting minis to another game?
Anyway I think the concerns/hopes that this game will sell out because of pent up TOW Skaven demand is overblown. I would imagine anyone who wants a TOW Skaven army has one and there just are not a significantly significant number of people looking to start a new army because of this box.
Also, it's nothing like Ikea, assembling a wardrobe and assembling miniatures really isn't comparable.
Not compatible at all! I never have to cut my Ikea wardrobe parts off of a sprue, file and clean them and then carefully study the wardrobe rules to see which combination of drawers is more point effecting and worry that my choice might be invalidated in the next FAQ!
Building GW minis is less and less fun.
I think the model where the left foot was a separate bit broke me.
I would agree that people who want a Skaven army already have one, but those people are alos chasing some specific models down that are in that box
like with the old Island of Blood Skavens
the main problem of the Skaven model range was that the special units people needed were either metal models, fragile finecast or very bad quality (weapons teams, rat-ogres, jezzails etc.) and the good stuff people were building around the large centerpiece plastics
hence people with existing armies want certain parts of the Skave half of the box which will increase demand while at the same time having the left over available for cheap in masses
(imagine everyone just wants at least 6 jezzails and 6 rat-ogres, with 3 of each being in the box, while there is no demand for 80 infantry)
Yea 40 clanrats in the box is harsh, when there could have been 20 and a redo of another unit that veterans would appreciate moving into plastic. It's not like they need all 40 for the Spearhead roster, either.
Silver lining - I've read somewhere that you can build 6 distinct command groups
lord_blackfang wrote: Yea 40 clanrats in the box is harsh, when there could have been 20 and a redo of another unit that veterans would appreciate moving into plastic. It's not like they need all 40 for the Spearhead roster, either.
Silver lining - I've read somewhere that you can build 6 distinct command groups
I can imagine the new clanrats will at least be popular as front rank troops for TOW Skaven players; while I think the previous ones looked great, they are absolutely lost on the 25mm bases TOW wants them on (ironic, given how much better to rank up they were than their predecessors, who took up far too much space), so having these more dynamic, wider rats in the front seems good. Having a lot of command options is particularly welcome in that case.
Plus, anything that moves away from very restricted builds on multipart plastics is absolutely welcome news too.
lord_blackfang wrote: Yea 40 clanrats in the box is harsh, when there could have been 20 and a redo of another unit that veterans would appreciate moving into plastic. It's not like they need all 40 for the Spearhead roster, either.
Silver lining - I've read somewhere that you can build 6 distinct command groups
I can imagine the new clanrats will at least be popular as front rank troops for TOW Skaven players; while I think the previous ones looked great, they are absolutely lost on the 25mm bases TOW wants them on (ironic, given how much better to rank up they were than their predecessors, who took up far too much space), so having these more dynamic, wider rats in the front seems good. Having a lot of command options is particularly welcome in that case.
Plus, anything that moves away from very restricted builds on multipart plastics is absolutely welcome news too.
You do realise these will be mostly monopose without options or many interchangeable components? At best it'll be 1-2 parts different on each torso and after 40 you get duplicates.
You do realise these will be mostly monopose without options or many interchangeable components? At best it'll be 1-2 parts different on each torso and after 40 you get duplicates.
Pretty much that, of the 20 rats per sprue, 14 of them are completely monopose with the other 6 having either a normal rat build or a command model build (two different leaders, two musicians and two banner bearers)
But what is very nice at least is that there are different heads for the leader for Clan Verminus, Eshin, Pestilens and Skyre.
Eh, I maintain that 20 unique, dynamic, monopose sculpts is more variety than the ol' 4 legs, 4 torsos and 4 of each arm, where most joints allow for maybe 30 degrees of rotation before the model starts looking like it's been through a bad car crash, and they mostly all look like they're pooping standing up and are a bit angry about it.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Not sure what cereal boxes you're used too, but i've got the darkoath box right here and it's a hell of a lot more solid than that.
But you sound like a direct case of "stop liking what i don't like."
Some of the big boxes are "cereal" (same as Start Collecting! boxes etc) including the latest Kill Team - Nightmare
Speaking of Nightmare, does anyone know where I can find it? I can't seem to locate it on GW's new webstore.
lord_blackfang wrote: Eh, I maintain that 20 unique, dynamic, monopose sculpts is more variety than the ol' 4 legs, 4 torsos and 4 of each arm, where most joints allow for maybe 30 degrees of rotation before the model starts looking like it's been through a bad car crash, and they mostly all look like they're pooping standing up and are a bit angry about it.
Another good point is that the new and old clanrats really don't look vastly different when painted the same. Yes the new ones are better but not so much better you can't mix them with the old ones to get some more variation.
Here's an example of two old ones on the left and two new ones on the right:
vipoid wrote: Speaking of Nightmare, does anyone know where I can find it? I can't seem to locate it on GW's new webstore.
Yea... these things tend to not last a day, let alone to the release of the next box. Your best bet now is some decrepit game store with no online presence.
vipoid wrote: Speaking of Nightmare, does anyone know where I can find it? I can't seem to locate it on GW's new webstore.
Yea... these things tend to not last a day, let alone to the release of the next box. Your best bet now is some decrepit game store with no online presence.
Ugh.
Is there a reason GW isn't making more of them?
You know, so they can sell them. For money. The way companies generally work.
you mean complete garbage unless you want to spend a fortune? figures... guess i shouldn't be surprised. I still don't understand how they think that this is a good idea. I cant imagine how many people have started a new army from just having easy access to stats and rules that they could just thumb through. how do you know if you like an army and want to start it, buy the codex and hope its cool? rule of cool on the models is nice and all but i dont want to jump in to an army and find out their rules are crap.
Article states, "Arriving shortly after the launch of the new edition," but then say it will launch on July 15. Seems they are trying to hedge a bit. Anyone have any confidence in that and that it will work as promised?
Billicus wrote: And some card decks for Spearhead, and a board, etc. If you've no intention of playing Spearhead I think it's a relatively tough sell. Having watched some videos of people enthusing about how well it plays though I'm pretty interested in Spearhead so I'm in
If you want the models for one side it's going to be cheaper to buy box and sell other models than buy models separately later though
usernamesareannoying wrote: I still don't understand how they think that this is a good idea. I cant imagine how many people have started a new army from just having easy access to stats and rules that they could just thumb through. how do you know if you like an army and want to start it, buy the codex and hope its cool?
Never mind an app, remember the old, GOOD, working GW (not 'Warhammer') store that had PDFs with rules next to each AoS unit so you could read these as you were browsing? Man, killing that sure helped the sales, eh?
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Not compatible at all! I never have to cut my Ikea wardrobe parts off of a sprue, file and clean them and then carefully study the wardrobe rules to see which combination of drawers is more point effecting and worry that my choice might be invalidated in the next FAQ!
And then when GW tried to fix that aspect and tried to roll similar weapons into rough categories* so people worry less about it and could do more rule of cool/conversions we had this incessant, insufferable whining about it here for months, especially from players of a certain spiky emo army? Go figure
*OK some of it went too far but good 2/3 of weapon groups were pretty good idea, especially in armies where you can hardly tell what is what anyway...
Actually this image is hilarious because it (yet again) confirms what people were saying all along - it's the mULtiPoSe models who look like lazy copy pastes lacking detail, poses, and undercuts while none of new ones looks the same and you can tell who is mook/leader/special at a glance.
Oh no, 3 new models out of 120 look kinda similar, this is sooo much worse than 114 out of 120 being virtual clones
you mean complete garbage unless you want to spend a fortune? figures... guess i shouldn't be surprised. I still don't understand how they think that this is a good idea. I cant imagine how many people have started a new army from just having easy access to stats and rules that they could just thumb through. how do you know if you like an army and want to start it, buy the codex and hope its cool?
rule of cool on the models is nice and all but i dont want to jump in to an army and find out their rules are crap.
Rules are very temporary, the models less so. Lots of people buy said cool model and the rules change twice before the units built and painted.
I can't imagine buying purely based on contemporary meta unless it's to tourney chase or a short turn turnaround you plan to sell on.
And even if you buy the rules for your models, when they make a new book they will take the rules out of your app. They really really don't seem to want people to actually play.
vipoid wrote: Speaking of Nightmare, does anyone know where I can find it? I can't seem to locate it on GW's new webstore.
Yea... these things tend to not last a day, let alone to the release of the next box. Your best bet now is some decrepit game store with no online presence.
Ugh.
Is there a reason GW isn't making more of them?
You know, so they can sell them. For money. The way companies generally work.
They make more money with a quick sellout of the box at the numbers they produce and then the contents sold separately, individually for more, than the box would have been.
Been going over the faction abilities of the armies I own and those of my play group.
While most looked cool in a vacuum, now that we can see all of them together the power variance looks absolutely wild to me. Darts-at-a-wall wild.
Nurgle is a one trick nothingburger. Tzeentch does that same trick better and has destiny dice on top. FEC moved most of their faction abilities onto Ushoran's warscroll, what remains is weak respawning. Gitz powerups are good but transient. Skaven are solid, but rely a lot on gnawholes that you may or may not have room to place.
Nighthaunt win big with ignoring save mods (but getting +1 ward Command instead), huge tactical utility (charge while locked in combat, formation trait to retreat/run and charge, and 3 different "when you charge" debuffs that can all be piled onto the same target. Yum.
Of my enemies, Lumineth are completely insane with two fights per fight all the time and then their choice of 4 "once per turn" things on top of that.
If you ever wanted proof in writing that the AoS team and 40K team may as well be on different parts of the planet:
"With any game that runs for multiple editions, there’s inevitable feature creep, with new layers of rules adding more complexity over time. This provides great depth and engagement for existing players, but inevitably makes it harder for new players to jump on board.
With that in mind, we hit a wall early on: if the first thing you need to do to play is look at all your faction’s rules and errata, then multiple layers of errata to the Core Rules, then the floor for accessibility becomes quite high. There was only so far we could go with accessibility if we planned to make all of those rules compatible with a new edition, when we realised that, we started looking at how far we could take it if we didn’t have that constraint. "
AOS and 40k as games are always learning from each other. from AOS, 40k has gotten some of its best ideas, and from 40k, AOS has learned what to not do
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: If you ever wanted proof in writing that the AoS team and 40K team may as well be on different parts of the planet:"
AoS ones are just the playtesters for 40k next edition
I wish the 40k team would actually pay attention to AoS...
I love both systems, but am getting tired of the pointless 40k changes...
I dunno - do you really want a double turn in 40K as well as AoS. Cause the AoS team REALLY loves the doubleturn
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! (eek!)
lol that IS one of the mechanics I don't really like about AoS...
I've had too many games won or lost by the decisive demolishing double turn in an otherwise close match
Considering GW's vdfjg90t5w0z9ejg filenames it would be a great deal more obnoxious to me to have 24 files that you would have to rename upon download or kill yourself finding the right one when you play.
GW website originally gave me a 55 minute queue but half an hour later its now taking me straight to the product page. Still in stock with a reduction at Element Games too. I might buy after release if it gets another chunk removed like the Kroot Hunting Pack did....
Yeah stock of Leviathan is still kicking around. These starter sets are produced in insane quantities.
Myself I'll likely be hunting for the rulebook in 2 weeks when everything starts arriving for people and the stocks go up and everyone is selling off the excess parts that they don't need.
I'm going to be very very good and not buy into a new Skaven army after selling them on at the start of the year (If I keep saying that I might manage to make it true!!!)
I feel pretty damn good paying 60€ for the Skaven half, I'd get 3 batches if I could but our local box splitter can't unload any Stormcast.
Somewhat anxious about not getting the rules now, both games in the box seem great. Hopefully a Spearhead "warzone" drops soon, maybe even with 2 new realms.
Overread wrote: Yeah stock of Leviathan is still kicking around. These starter sets are produced in insane quantities.
Myself I'll likely be hunting for the rulebook in 2 weeks when everything starts arriving for people and the stocks go up and everyone is selling off the excess parts that they don't need.
I'm going to be very very good and not buy into a new Skaven army after selling them on at the start of the year (If I keep saying that I might manage to make it true!!!)
Everything I'm saying here is purely speculation based on rumours so could be totally different but with that, there was a rumour that GW made about 200.000 Leviathan copies and 120.000 for Dominion copies.
The webstore preorder gifts GW gave out for them numbered 50.000 and 30.000 respectively.
We know that there are 23237 Token sets available as preorder gifts this time which, if its the same ratio as the last two boxes, would mean they made about 90.000 copies of Skaventide.
Of course the ratio could have changed or the numbers of produced copies for the last two could just be wrong but if the old numbers are correct 90.000 seems realistic since they made way too many Dominion copies but AoS also grew since three years ago so 3/4 of Dominion and 1/2 of 40k numbers seems about fine.
But that also means that you shouldn't expect necessarily expect Skaventide to be available for the same timespan as Dominion or Leviathan. Of course not double as fast as Leviathan just because its half the numbers as 40k is also bigger but I also wouldn't bet on it lasting as long or longer than Leviathan. Especially since Skaventide seems quite a bit more popular than Dominion as far as I can see while being assumed to have less copies if the above numbers are true
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Not sure it's going to sell out that fast considering leviathan never did.
Round these parts, Leviathan didn't sell out super fast at GW (who charge full price) but at shops that sell at 10-20% discount, it sold out almost immediately.
One thing I like to do is check a handful of the stores that provide stock levels. The Combat Company and Gap Games for example. When Leviathan came out, I remember seeing it go from 100's of copies to 10's of copies to sold out in a matter of minutes. I didn't actually check Skaventide at the moment of launch because I wasn't in front of my computer, but it's been sitting at ~100 copies available at TCC since the afternoon when I checked and it's still ~100 copies, so it doesn't seem to be moving copies fast.
Depends where you are i guess. I know Element was overloaded on Leviathan to such a degree it was plastered against their front page until recently. And a couple of my locals still have it piled up against a wall.
The Abraxia box sold out instantly, as did the FEC's box if memory serves. But it doesn't really matter, boxes like that seem to be slowing for all the systems. The kroot box never sold and neither did either of the new imperialis boxes by the look of it.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: The Abraxia box sold out instantly, as did the FEC's box if memory serves. But it doesn't really matter, boxes like that seem to be slowing for all the systems. The kroot box never sold and neither did either of the new imperialis boxes by the look of it.
The Darkoath box is still available on the GW site. They've released the kits individually, but there's no reason to buy them, since the bundle is still there.
Something obviously went wrong with the release date on that. The general release was far too close to the launch box. It's usually a month to two months. That was like two weeks between them.
My worry with not getting this box is the possibility that GW will not print nearly enough Spearhead packs, of cards and such, and I'll be wanting to play that format and relying only on friends who have access. I just don't trust them to have product anymore.
Shrapnelsmile wrote: My worry with not getting this box is the possibility that GW will not print nearly enough Spearhead packs, of cards and such, and I'll be wanting to play that format and relying only on friends who have access. I just don't trust them to have product anymore.
They're not pushing it this hard and just going to dump it in this box. I'll bet 100% it gets a general release when the full edition launch happens in like a month.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: The Abraxia box sold out instantly, as did the FEC's box if memory serves. But it doesn't really matter, boxes like that seem to be slowing for all the systems. The kroot box never sold and neither did either of the new imperialis boxes by the look of it.
The Abraxia Dawnbringers box is still available on GW's US storefront. And the FEC box was available for a looooong time. Both are available on ebay and amazon. And, yes, of course, there will always be a difference in regional stock availability so YMMV. I agree with you about the slower box sales; I haven't bought any GW product since the announcement of the last price increase, but I still check in every Saturday out of habit and aside from KT boxes (faction or value dependent) and Limited BL, nothing is really selling out in minutes like it was 1-2 years ago. Purely speculation on my part and without internal numbers we'll never know.
As others have said earlier in this thread, this box will probably sell faster and in greater numbers than Dominion simply due to Skaven, but by how much? I still think it'll be available a year from now lower than retail price, maybe not at Dominion fire sale prices, but close.
Either way, it'll still sell better than any box containing Fyreslayers
I think it comes down to a few things beyond GW's simultaneous reduction in value and increase in prices.
+ AoS is a specialist game that gets treated like a Flagship:GW makes the best minis in the industry and fantasy settings are popular in nerd hobbies, so it seems like a product like AoS should exist. It is the product that launched the company. Unfortunately, AoS a middling product. The models are some of the best designs in the industry, but the lore is garbage and 40K has great models, a better story, is basically the same game, and has a much larger player base. Dominion didn't sell through. Almost none of the launch boxes sell out. You can buy AoS Christmas battleforces well into April. You can get basically every WarCry expansion on Amazon at 30%+ discount. GW certainly has invested a lot to try and make it work, AoS is a rival to Horus Heresy not 40K.
+ Boring designs: The last KT box was actually a decent value relative to other releases, given that you got the GSC leadership box as a bonus. But the designs just weren't that great. Squats in leather jackets and some generic sci-fi soldiers. The terrain pieces were small cubes. They're fine designs. Totally acceptable. They're just not very exciting. Likewise, the Darkoath and FEC line troops are nicely executed versions of fantasy tropes. Exquisitely bland.
I hope a soft launch of Skaventide leads them to reconsider their apportionment of resources. I wish the effort and investment in tooling spent making those generic Soulblight bats was spent making plastic versions of the First Claw Night Lords. The generic soulblight wolf sprue could have been a Primaris Space Wolves squad. Keep AoS around, but with 12-15 factions, not 25.
I've spent thousands of dollars on AoS, Bloodbowl, WarCry, etc. so this isn't hate. The new Kroot are some of the most dynamic models GW has ever made. But the reality is that GW = Space Marines. I respect the efforts to broaden the product line but the market is sending a signal.
Shrapnelsmile wrote: My worry with not getting this box is the possibility that GW will not print nearly enough Spearhead packs, of cards and such, and I'll be wanting to play that format and relying only on friends who have access. I just don't trust them to have product anymore.
They're not pushing it this hard and just going to dump it in this box. I'll bet 100% it gets a general release when the full edition launch happens in like a month.
yes we know they are going to sell a Spearhead package. We'll see how many packs they make. I ordered it piecemeal from eBay today. Not taking any chances.
flaherty wrote: I think it comes down to a few things beyond GW's simultaneous reduction in value and increase in prices.
+ AoS is a specialist game that gets treated like a Flagship:GW makes the best minis in the industry and fantasy settings are popular in nerd hobbies, so it seems like a product like AoS should exist. It is the product that launched the company. Unfortunately, AoS a middling product. The models are some of the best designs in the industry, but the lore is garbage and 40K has great models, a better story, is basically the same game, and has a much larger player base. Dominion didn't sell through. Almost none of the launch boxes sell out. You can buy AoS Christmas battleforces well into April. You can get basically every WarCry expansion on Amazon at 30%+ discount. GW certainly has invested a lot to try and make it work, AoS is a rival to Horus Heresy not 40K.
+ Boring designs: The last KT box was actually a decent value relative to other releases, given that you got the GSC leadership box as a bonus. But the designs just weren't that great. Squats in leather jackets and some generic sci-fi soldiers. The terrain pieces were small cubes. They're fine designs. Totally acceptable. They're just not very exciting. Likewise, the Darkoath and FEC line troops are nicely executed versions of fantasy tropes. Exquisitely bland.
I hope a soft launch of Skaventide leads them to reconsider their apportionment of resources. I wish the effort and investment in tooling spent making those generic Soulblight bats was spent making plastic versions of the First Claw Night Lords. The generic soulblight wolf sprue could have been a Primaris Space Wolves squad. Keep AoS around, but with 12-15 factions, not 25.
I've spent thousands of dollars on AoS, Bloodbowl, WarCry, etc. so this isn't hate. The new Kroot are some of the most dynamic models GW has ever made. But the reality is that GW = Space Marines. I respect the efforts to broaden the product line but the market is sending a signal.
The big sign I see is that GW relentless updates of rules and models means people dont feel like they got a special deal or box and most will change in 3 years. If there is no time for you to sync in with the new army why get the new army. Why chase the new edition if you can take a small 3 year break and catch up with the previous unpainted box sets... add to the fact that they recently discontinued a huge part of Stormcast and you got a lot of people just not that exited for a new edition and new Stormcast... At leasts thats how I feel.
flaherty wrote: I think it comes down to a few things beyond GW's simultaneous reduction in value and increase in prices.
+ AoS is a specialist game that gets treated like a Flagship:GW makes the best minis in the industry and fantasy settings are popular in nerd hobbies, so it seems like a product like AoS should exist. It is the product that launched the company. Unfortunately, AoS a middling product. The models are some of the best designs in the industry, but the lore is garbage and 40K has great models, a better story, is basically the same game, and has a much larger player base. Dominion didn't sell through. Almost none of the launch boxes sell out. You can buy AoS Christmas battleforces well into April. You can get basically every WarCry expansion on Amazon at 30%+ discount. GW certainly has invested a lot to try and make it work, AoS is a rival to Horus Heresy not 40K.
+ Boring designs: The last KT box was actually a decent value relative to other releases, given that you got the GSC leadership box as a bonus. But the designs just weren't that great. Squats in leather jackets and some generic sci-fi soldiers. The terrain pieces were small cubes. They're fine designs. Totally acceptable. They're just not very exciting. Likewise, the Darkoath and FEC line troops are nicely executed versions of fantasy tropes. Exquisitely bland.
I hope a soft launch of Skaventide leads them to reconsider their apportionment of resources. I wish the effort and investment in tooling spent making those generic Soulblight bats was spent making plastic versions of the First Claw Night Lords. The generic soulblight wolf sprue could have been a Primaris Space Wolves squad. Keep AoS around, but with 12-15 factions, not 25.
I've spent thousands of dollars on AoS, Bloodbowl, WarCry, etc. so this isn't hate. The new Kroot are some of the most dynamic models GW has ever made. But the reality is that GW = Space Marines. I respect the efforts to broaden the product line but the market is sending a signal.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Depends where you are i guess. I know Element was overloaded on Leviathan to such a degree it was plastered against their front page until recently. And a couple of my locals still have it piled up against a wall.
Yeah, location dependent obviously. I don't think I've seen a copy of Leviathan in a shop in Australia since it launched, and the two places I mentioned in my post are the biggest online retailers for wargames in Australia, combined they had at least 1500 copies of Leviathan.
At the rate AoS has been selling, I'd guess its popularity is closer to The Old World than it is to 40k.
People usually get angry and dissapointed at boxes selling out quickly.
Now the discussion sounds like boxes still in stock is an embarrasing failure for GW, and a game throwing a party that no other kids show up to.
Beeing able to buy their product is not a bad thing, remember.
flaherty wrote: + AoS is a specialist game that gets treated like a Flagship: GW makes the best minis in the industry and fantasy settings are popular in nerd hobbies, so it seems like a product like AoS should exist. It is the product that launched the company.
...you do understand the concept of linear time, right?
Beeing able to buy their product is not a bad thing, remember.
Exactly. I'm of the mind set these big sets should always be available with push fits easy builds, alongside some more complex multipart individual regiment boxes. They are amazing entry bundles.
Fayric wrote: People usually get angry and dissapointed at boxes selling out quickly.
Now the discussion sounds like boxes still in stock is an embarrasing failure for GW, and a game throwing a party that no other kids show up to.
Beeing able to buy their product is not a bad thing, remember.
I'm looking specifically at stock levels and how fast that stock is moving rather than "has it sold out". Whether or not it sells out is dependent on how many GW made.
Obviously we want to be able to buy stock, but if there's X copies sitting at one of the largest online stores and a week later there's X-10, it's not really indicating a great popularity.
A large part of what makes GW good is ubiquity, a GW game that doesn't have ubiquity isn't as appealing as there's a bunch of non-GW games out there if you don't mind playing a game that doesn't have a massive community.
Obviously we want to be able to buy stock, but if there's X copies sitting at one of the largest online stores and a week later there's X-10, it's not really indicating a great popularity.
I just think you are all too much intoxicated with this FOMO thing dude. I mean Overall popularity means nothing if you play in a region that its very popular. Likewise imagine an area that does not care about AoS and the game sells out worldwide in 5 minutes suggesting its super popular, again means nothing for them.
We dont know the stocks or sales numbers only GW does... we can have fun speculating but theres a lot more to establishing the popularity of a game just by looking at stocks of online stores... just saying.
I bet any competitor would call their games a massive hit if they reached a tiny small fraction of AoS Sales.
Not selling out immediately its a good thing for any game! means people can engage at different time frames and dont need to have this FOMO mentality.
flaherty wrote: + AoS is a specialist game that gets treated like a Flagship: GW makes the best minis in the industry and fantasy settings are popular in nerd hobbies, so it seems like a product like AoS should exist. It is the product that launched the company.
...you do understand the concept of linear time, right?
Apologies, I meant that fantasy miniatures were what put the company on the map, not AoS in particular.
My point is that their self-conception as a company is one that has a market-leading sci-fi and fantasy game offering when the reality is that they have a wildly popular sci-fi IP, a moderately popular fantasy video game IP, and a middling fantasy miniatures game.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: At the rate AoS has been selling, I'd guess its popularity is closer to The Old World than it is to 40k.
Now that we have The Old World we can acknowledge again that AoS is trash and go back to the beloved old setting.
Next step: the setting gets squatted a second time as GW's accountants panic over dropping AoS sales.
Good thing that beloved old setting sold so well and didn't end up getting cancelled. Oh wait..
And how they brought it back and it sold amazingly. Oh wait..
Of course thats strongly GWs fault by only releasing a total of two new plastic kits and only having three of the nine main factions available half a year after launch. I'm sure the game itself isn't bad but from a model standpoint there isn't much reason to go with GW stuff and that's where the sales come from.
And just judging by how all four stores near me and three other stores in neighboring countries that I order from sometimes had to put most of the TOW stuff in the sales category with additional discounts to sell anything it really doesn't want to move. Of course just a small sample size but still not a great look.
Fayric wrote: People usually get angry and dissapointed at boxes selling out quickly.
Now the discussion sounds like boxes still in stock is an embarrasing failure for GW, and a game throwing a party that no other kids show up to.
Beeing able to buy their product is not a bad thing, remember.
that is something GW marketing created themselves, kind of
main reason to collect those things by marketing is because they are popular so you have the potential to play a game no matter what, and you buy them now because stock won't last as demand is high and it will get more expensive over time (as the individual boxes are much more expensive and the yearly price increase will come as well)
yet if marketing/FOMO fails, this created the situation that the game is not considered popular enough to be worth collecting for the potential of gaming (if there is still stock, no one buys which means no potential players, so not worth buying)
and in addition, there is a good chance it gets cheaper over time instead of more expensive because excessive stock need to be sold off as a new Edition will come in 3 years
if FOMO is a companies main marketing, being actually able to buy the stuff is failed marketing which can have a bigger impact
Against all better judgement, the Fire & Jade gaming pack looks ideal for skirmish wargaming in general. But once again, it depends heavily on the price...
GW hasn't done much with endless spells in a whle. No expansion or reboxing set and not many factions that don't have them getting hold of them as of late.
They feel like "marketing hotness" that has cooled and the team aren't pushing them
Overread wrote: GW hasn't done much with endless spells in a whle. No expansion or reboxing set and not many factions that don't have them getting hold of them as of late.
They feel like "marketing hotness" that has cooled and the team aren't pushing them
And yet they're making a plush Purple Sun! Definite confusion internally.
Overread wrote: GW hasn't done much with endless spells in a whle. No expansion or reboxing set and not many factions that don't have them getting hold of them as of late.
They feel like "marketing hotness" that has cooled and the team aren't pushing them
And yet they're making a plush Purple Sun! Definite confusion internally.
Overread wrote: GW hasn't done much with endless spells in a whle. No expansion or reboxing set and not many factions that don't have them getting hold of them as of late.
They feel like "marketing hotness" that has cooled and the team aren't pushing them
And yet they're making a plush Purple Sun! Definite confusion internally.
Tomy's a licensed product, not GW.
They still have to run their product lines by GW for approval though, right?
Got a set on Friday, spent the weekend building and painting.
Saw some YouTube reviews saying that the building was a bit fiddly and things did not always go together well - not a bit of it, in my experience. These models go together very nicely, maybe the best I have seen from GW in quite a while.
Other YouTubers have been opining that this might be the best starter set from GW yet - will agree with that, would rate this package as 'Superb'.
MongooseMatt wrote: Saw some YouTube reviews saying that the building was a bit fiddly and things did not always go together well - not a bit of it, in my experience. These models go together very nicely, maybe the best I have seen from GW in quite a while.
Good to hear, and hardly surprising. Overwhelmingly modern GW's plastic models are engineered quite well and these instances where people experience difficulties are usually down to inexperience with the quirks of peg and hole systems on easy build models, wrapping your head around exotic computer cut parts especially on multi-part models, or a combination thereof.
I've had perhaps 2 or 3 GW models in years that went together oddly and with a bit of fiddly parts (The Morghast models come to mind). Otherwise if you follow the instructions GW models go together really easily.
Push-fit can take a moment to learn that if you're using plastic glues you want to cut a good portion of the peg off otherwise they tend to get too snug and the vapours/glue on the peg causes it to get stuck part way instead of all the way.
I think I've had 1 model that was odd/bad to put together and that was the bloodsnake form the Daughters of Khiane Endless spells set.
MongooseMatt wrote: Saw some YouTube reviews saying that the building was a bit fiddly and things did not always go together well - not a bit of it, in my experience. These models go together very nicely, maybe the best I have seen from GW in quite a while.
Good to hear, and hardly surprising. Overwhelmingly modern GW's plastic models are engineered quite well and these instances where people experience difficulties are usually down to inexperience with the quirks of peg and hole systems on easy build models, wrapping your head around exotic computer cut parts especially on multi-part models, or a combination thereof.
Well, that and for AOS a surprising tolerance for two part shoulder pads and cape splits which are relatively advanced modelling tasks to fix for intro boxes.
I was building the Vanquishers and at least they have one-piece pads, but there are still some split cloaks. But they are way easier to build than the Stormcast pushfits.
No surprise the launch box is a good deal versus regular prices.
Faction packs... I love the convenience, but most of them are above what I'm comfortable paying for something that's planned to go obsolete asap. Buying the Skaven and SCE ones especially seems madness, 20€ each for probably a month of play?
Locally the only interest in ToW is from a few college aged folks who never played WHFB but are conditioned to check out every new GW thing. The actual fantasy veterans stayed with T9A, while AoS is looked at mostly by folks who identify as 40k players but like the models.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: With Fire and Jade you seem to get a rulebook of sorts in the Skaventide box, but no such book in the separate Fire and Jade Spearhead release.
Are the rules to play Spearhead in the core rulebook or will everything you need to play be in the free downloadable resource(s)?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
It explains everything in the preorder article:
Preorder Preview Article wrote:Spearhead is the new game mode for Warhammer Age of Sigmar, bringing lightning-fast games rich in tactical depth. This neat box contains everything you need to start playing games of Spearhead with your own collections. You get a sprue with four pieces of terrain and snap-together 3” and 6” range rulers, a double-sided game board with printed objectives covering Aqshy on one side and Ghyran on the other, as well as a Twist Deck for each side, and two identical Battle Tactic decks for each player.
The Battlepack for Spearhead will be available for free, and every faction’s Spearhead rules will be available in their Faction Packs, both in physical and digital editions.
Preorder for Skaventide wrote:That’s not all, as the box also contains all the bits and pieces you need to play Spearhead. The Skaven and Stormcast halves of the box contain their respective Spearheads, and you also get the double-sided Aqshy and Ghyran board, a terrain sprue that includes snap-together 3” and 6” range rulers, and Battle Tactics and Twist Decks. There’s also the 144-page hardback Spearhead: Fire and Jade book, which contains the rules and warscrolls for every existing Spearhead force.*
* Please note that the construction guide for Skaventide shows the Gryph-crow on a 25mm base, which is incorrect. It should go on a 32mm base, which is included in the box.
Fire and Jade contains the Battlepack and every faction's Spearhead rules & warscrolls in a single spot.
lord_blackfang wrote: Locally the only interest in ToW is from a few college aged folks who never played WHFB but are conditioned to check out every new GW thing. The actual fantasy veterans stayed with T9A, while AoS is looked at mostly by folks who identify as 40k players but like the models.
lord_blackfang wrote: Locally the only interest in ToW is from a few college aged folks who never played WHFB but are conditioned to check out every new GW thing. The actual fantasy veterans stayed with T9A, while AoS is looked at mostly by folks who identify as 40k players but like the models.
That's not even close to being accurate.
Okay then you explain to everyone what my local group plays.
lord_blackfang wrote: Locally the only interest in ToW is from a few college aged folks who never played WHFB but are conditioned to check out every new GW thing. The actual fantasy veterans stayed with T9A, while AoS is looked at mostly by folks who identify as 40k players but like the models.
That's not even close to being accurate.
Okay then you explain to everyone what my local group plays.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: At the rate AoS has been selling, I'd guess its popularity is closer to The Old World than it is to 40k.
Now that we have The Old World we can acknowledge again that AoS is trash and go back to the beloved old setting.
Next step: the setting gets squatted a second time as GW's accountants panic over dropping AoS sales.
Given that the 'legacy' factions can only get models from Age of Sigmar, you'd think the existence of Old World would HELP its sales...
Google trends data and subreddit subscribership suggests that TOWs popularity is a drop in the bucket compared to AoS anyway.
I'll take sale numbers over subreddit subscriberships, even if they are only regional estimates based off the larger online stores in Aus.
Online presences are weird, sometimes very niche games appear to have a huge online presence because for whatever reason half the real world community is also part of the online community. Other times the online presence only represents a tiny fraction of the community.
But I never really said that TOW is particularly popular... just that AoS is closer to that than 40k
TOW is an interesting one, so far no one I know of my old WHFB group has picked it up, I don't think it shifted huge amounts of stock. Launching with Bretonnia and Tomb Kings I found was odd, basically a couple of the least popular armies back in the day, especially since they didn't update the tired old core kits.
I'll take sale numbers over subreddit subscriberships, even if they are only regional estimates based off the larger online stores in Aus.
Sure, if any of us knew what those looked like it would be a much easier conversation, but we don't- so working from indirect measures is what we have to deal with.
Not a big fan of the seperate release days for the faction packs. Its not a huge time gap in the grand view, but just seems like a weird choice to make.
I guess they anticipate things going smoother with it spaced out like that.
I wouldn't put it past the current GW fad of simplification. Heck I already got annoyed that AoS kind of encourages you to take a full compliment of musicians and banners (but only one leader...) which if you actually do it results in infantry and cavalry blocks that can be made up of more support than actual fighting units.
.... WHY GW WHY can't you just do the old Musicians 1 and someone else picks up the trumpet? It's not hard!!
I wouldn't mind if units came in packs of 10 or 15 per "box" but with most being 5 having 2 support per 3 troops just looks all kinds of silly. There's a few units that might warrant it - I could see some nurgle ones having more musicians than normal; but so many just don't look right at all.
Yes I know its a 'me' problem and its easily fixed but still!
Doubling up on command does let you field minimum and maximum sized units without swapping models. I think in 4.0 you're also going to be capped to two per unit as you can only increase model count once.
I agree it's looking kinda naff on a reinforced 3-strong unit, like Revenant Seekers or the new FEC cav.
2 musicians would look silly, 3 or more would look cool it they stand together.
Now I would like to build a full unit of trumpeteers and drummers. What a powerfull sight for the cities to have a such a duardin unit on the field.
If only you could get some bagpipes and accordions too.
Having skimmed through the rules today, I'm pretty disappointed. This ruleset reads so bland, I'd rather play anything else. The only thing that's an improvement is how prayers work now. Everything else is just so so boring with not even a hint of innovation or any justification for a new edition.
I don't see much flavour in the core rules. Abilities (Move, Run, Fight, etc.) are basically the same, but the removed Morale and no combat resolution really irks me. It basically doesn't matter who wins a round of combat, if none of the units is destroyed. Respawning models for every army via Rally feels weird. The Control stat seems... unnecessary or at least not like a big enough improvement over the way 3E handled it to drop Morale. Army composition locked to the heroes I don't like. Double turn basically gets no penality again as far as I can see, unless you're also behind on VPs, and even then it's a single additional CP.
The change in combat resolution has fundamentally changed how you play the game.
For instance, whilst I absolutely can still just bundle three scythed chariots into infantry or cavalry? There’s a much greater risk that I don’t break my opponent. And we all know what happens when Chariots get stuck in combat.
Likewise, Bretonnian Buses still hit like a ton of brick, but need to be wary of what they’re charging lest they be flanked in the opponent’s next turn.
The grind nature of combat also favours lower level champions. Those with decent stats and access to decent weapons, who can really make their presence felt turn on turn, hacking down multiple enemy models.
It’s now a game which favours planning a turn or three in advance, including “what do I do if my army is bogged down?”.
I wasn’t sold on it at first, but I’m kind of digging it. For instance, Ogres can now really play the attrition game, as can other Monstrous Infantry, without me having to pay for rank after rank in points.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: The change in combat resolution has fundamentally changed how you play the game.
For instance, whilst I absolutely can still just bundle three scythed chariots into infantry or cavalry? There’s a much greater risk that I don’t break my opponent. And we all know what happens when Chariots get stuck in combat.
Likewise, Bretonnian Buses still hit like a ton of brick, but need to be wary of what they’re charging lest they be flanked in the opponent’s next turn.
The grind nature of combat also favours lower level champions. Those with decent stats and access to decent weapons, who can really make their presence felt turn on turn, hacking down multiple enemy models.
It’s now a game which favours planning a turn or three in advance, including “what do I do if my army is bogged down?”.
I wasn’t sold on it at first, but I’m kind of digging it. For instance, Ogres can now really play the attrition game, as can other Monstrous Infantry, without me having to pay for rank after rank in points.
I think you might be talking about the wrong game. This is the AoS topic, not TOW.
Hanskrampf wrote: I don't see much flavour in the core rules. Abilities (Move, Run, Fight, etc.) are basically the same, but the removed Morale and no combat resolution really irks me.
I'm a big fan of morale and suppression rules and while they removed the former as a stat, I feel like there's a lot of the latter going in, just in the form of various debuffs, which include debuffs to Control, so you can indeed make a unit temporarily nigh useless without dealing wounds to it. It's highly abstracted but it works on everyone the same now, rather than having a stat which then half the factions are maxed on and the other half are low but with a mitigation mechanic that makes morale effects terrible most of the time no matter who you're fighting...
I would say if anything is bland it's the "stand in circles and push buttons" objectives and the core mechanics are now completely tied into that.
The missions are very bland, following the footsteps of 40K being variations of stand on a circle for a longer time. Even if the rules are fun and complex the simple fact the table has mandated layouts per mission and there's next to none for real variety in the missions will leave the impression of a dry sea bed of creativity. I hope that the codexes flush it out and provide lots of fun battle tactics to compensate.
Voss wrote: Got a 'its not too late' email today for the boxed set. Wonder if they overproduced or undersold?
Let's not start that again. gak still being available 5 days into the preorder week isn't a bad thing.
I didn't pass any moral judgements on it. Its just in a world where GW preorders can vanish in 24 hours or even 2 hours, a 'hey, you can still buy this, please buy this' email is notable.
Voss wrote: Got a 'its not too late' email today for the boxed set. Wonder if they overproduced or undersold?
Let's not start that again. gak still being available 5 days into the preorder week isn't a bad thing.
I didn't pass any moral judgements on it. Its just in a world where GW preorders can vanish in 24 hours or even 2 hours, a 'hey, you can still buy this, please buy this' email is notable.
To be fair, it’s not out of character for GW to send out that email even if the stock sold out 2 minutes after going live 5 days ago…
The left and right hands don’t talk to eachother very well sometimes over there.
Voss wrote: Got a 'its not too late' email today for the boxed set. Wonder if they overproduced or undersold?
Let's not start that again. gak still being available 5 days into the preorder week isn't a bad thing.
I didn't pass any moral judgements on it. Its just in a world where GW preorders can vanish in 24 hours or even 2 hours, a 'hey, you can still buy this, please buy this' email is notable.
To be fair, it’s not out of character for GW to send out that email even if the stock sold out 2 minutes after going live 5 days ago…
The left and right hands don’t talk to eachother very well sometimes over there.
Most likely those happen because the emails are not necessarily grouped by country of origin (some email blocks might not even have that data attached to them). So it might be in supply in some regions but out in others so everyone gets the email.
Gibblets wrote: The missions are very bland, following the footsteps of 40K being variations of stand on a circle for a longer time. Even if the rules are fun and complex the simple fact the table has mandated layouts per mission and there's next to none for real variety in the missions will leave the impression of a dry sea bed of creativity. I hope that the codexes flush it out and provide lots of fun battle tactics to compensate.
Even gw doesn't call it mandated terrain. Why would you?
I'm just expressing my local meta. They play lots of games of 40K, AoS and some old world but it's all in 3 leagues. So only competitive setups and rules are allowed, literally, ever. To the point they replaced their terrain with MDFGW layout stuff. These are the people that went out and either bought new gaming mats or cut up old ones when the minimum table size was introduced in 9th. So it bothers me when I see folks getting to have fun like I used to before the group think killed narrative here. I feel the need to sound the alarm that moves like this erode aspects of the game that some of the player base enjoys. It's just some deep personal loss that I need to shut up about and finally fully move on from. Happy wargaming.
Have to admit, they had me fooled this time, I did not expect 8 pages of errata a week before release. But here we are again, despite what those haughty designer interviews said.
weird to give us points before we have any of the rules. but i'm glad we can at least finally see how regiments work in practice
Automatically Appended Next Post: oh, and also the rules PDF is so hilariously unoptimized that it takes about a minute to scroll through a single page. the points PDF isn't nearly as bad
Interested to check out this Spearhead option when Skaventide comes.
Shame there isn’t a little flexibility in it.
I have a Sylvaneth host box. Has an extra character and units but missing one unit to be the current Spearhead box (which is fine if you were building an army. But if I just wanted to stop at Spearhead level I’m close to having an extra one there..)
oh, and also the rules PDF is so hilariously unoptimized that it takes about a minute to scroll through a single page. the points PDF isn't nearly as bad
It was the same with free Warcry rules. Horrible to use.
Interesting omissions and moves to Legends. I don't see Giant Rats or the Warp Grinder in any of the lists right now, and they moved the Blue Scribes, Fluxmaster, and Fatemaster all to Legends.
Blue Scribes I think are suffering like a bunch of other things as GW is panic/sudden removing a whole load of Finecast in one go. I think to just fully get rid of it as a material so that FW resin can stand on its own and people won't get confused (a LOT of people only see resin as resin and don't realise that finecast and FW resin are entirely different)
Also interesting to see the Slaanesh Exalted Chariot is in legends too; but only the regular kind. They seem to have decided to make it the "leader" option only and removed the leaders on seeker/hellflayer builds. A bit of a shame to lose the regular exalted version, but at the same time I can see how that choice makes sense and its likely how they were originally intended - bit duel chariot as a special thing whilst seekers and hellflayers remain as troop style without leader options.
And yep the Viceleader (finecast deamonette leader) is also in the Legends as expected. Honestly more surprised that with all the updates GW did to Slaanesh, that this model didn't get a new updated sculpt.
Just seeing points can give insight into where GW is trying to push the game/armies.
If they want less cavalry and jack up their points by 25%+ and drop Monsters by 25%+, they clearly want to push the game a certain direction.
I mean, that's blatantly false, given that it comes with a simultaneous overhaul of all warscrolls and core rules, unit type interactions, scoring, etc. The introduction of the Control stat alone makes any preconceptions of unit worth meaningless.
Just seeing points can give insight into where GW is trying to push the game/armies.
If they want less cavalry and jack up their points by 25%+ and drop Monsters by 25%+, they clearly want to push the game a certain direction.
I mean, that's blatantly false, given that it comes with a simultaneous overhaul of all warscrolls and core rules, unit type interactions, scoring, etc. The introduction of the Control stat alone makes any preconceptions of unit worth meaningless.
If GW wants certain units on a table over others, regardless of their "trimmings", points dictate all.
If a Vanquisher unit is 100 more points than it used to be and Stormdrake Guard are 200 points less, GW wants more of one than the other.
Regardless of what you think, how things are costed plays a much bigger role than anything else. Even without seeing the warscrolls.
Just seeing points can give insight into where GW is trying to push the game/armies.
If they want less cavalry and jack up their points by 25%+ and drop Monsters by 25%+, they clearly want to push the game a certain direction.
I mean, that's blatantly false, given that it comes with a simultaneous overhaul of all warscrolls and core rules, unit type interactions, scoring, etc. The introduction of the Control stat alone makes any preconceptions of unit worth meaningless.
If GW wants certain units on a table over others, regardless of their "trimmings", points dictate all.
If a Vanquisher unit is 100 more points than it used to be and Stormdrake Guard are 200 points less, GW wants more of one than the other.
Regardless of what you think, how things are costed plays a much bigger role than anything else. Even without seeing the warscrolls.
If a vanquisher is now worth a hundred points more than it used to be and storm drake are worth 200 points less in the new edition with their new rules, then this would be very hyperbolic.
This part isn't: "If they want less cavalry and jack up their points by 25%+ and drop Monsters by 25%+, they clearly want to push the game a certain direction."
So look at something like Gorger Mawpack, warscroll is worse than 3.0 and they went up 60pts.
Huskard on Stonehorn, warscroll is clearly better than 3.0 and they went down 100pts.
Seems to me like GW wants more big models in this army, pushing it in a clear direction.
They've been doing that a while; its also why they've attacked big infantry blocks a lot in the previous edition as well.
It's not a bad move, 2nd edition was very dominated by massive infantry blocks and that pushed elite units, monsters and some cavalry out of the game as being viable. Simply because a massive 30-40 infantry block would outperform the monster on a lot of fronts.
So pushing to smaller infantry blocks and restricting them and favouring monsters allows people to put more of those units on the table more effectively.
It's not the only way to balance things and I think its also a background directive to have AoS be the "skirmish game with monsters" and Old World the "Wargame with infantry/cavalry blocks".
1) If Gaunt Summoners are going to pay 80 points for their Discs, they'd better be getting some serious bang for those bucks.
2) Chaos Warriors are twenty points per model, while Chosen are FIFTY. I can't imagine Chosen being that much better to justify the points...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overread wrote: They've been doing that a while; its also why they've attacked big infantry blocks a lot in the previous edition as well.
It's not a bad move, 2nd edition was very dominated by massive infantry blocks and that pushed elite units, monsters and some cavalry out of the game as being viable. Simply because a massive 30-40 infantry block would outperform the monster on a lot of fronts.
So pushing to smaller infantry blocks and restricting them and favouring monsters allows people to put more of those units on the table more effectively.
It's not the only way to balance things and I think its also a background directive to have AoS be the "skirmish game with monsters" and Old World the "Wargame with infantry/cavalry blocks".
Fixed 'To Wound' rolls will do that. When you're wounding a dragon just as easily as you are a goblin, monsters don't look so great.
Chosen are clearly paying for that second fight ability, which in theory could be pretty powerful if used at the right moment. The drawback is its only once per battle.
The Warriors, IF you can move them forward fast enough to take control over an objective, then become a better choice because they get more attacks which can span over multiple turns. Plus they will have more bodies/wounds in total and thus with the same armour save, will last longer.
Just realized a number of units they claimed would get Legends rules don't seem to have any. Branchwraith, Mistweaver Saih, and Rat Swarms are all missing in that file.
Also, based on this article the remaining candidates for new Skaven miniatures are Acolytes, all the weapons teams (except maybe the Warp Grinder which didn't show up in Legends or the main list), Master Moulder, Arch Warlock, and Stormvermin. That would be a very big release if they all got new models.
They really need an update but so is a Temple Guard or Skinks, and they were not updated with a rest of Seraphon.
GW seems to like leaving openly "this should be updated why isn't it" elements into their army updates. I'm not sure if that's just budgets hitting limits; or constant delays on things or even if its a marketing strategy to always leave something "left out" so there's always "something more for next time" or the like
They really need an update but so is a Temple Guard or Skinks, and they were not updated with a rest of Seraphon.
I only assume they are getting an update because the old kit is disappearing, but the unit is still in the main list. I agree the Saurus Guard need an update, but the models are still on sale, I believe.
So Liberators with two hammers or with hammer and shield have the same stats but Annihilators with hammer and shield or with two handed hammer have two scrolls. Consistency
Shadow Walker wrote: So Liberators with two hammers or with hammer and shield have the same stats but Annihilators with hammer and shield or with two handed hammer have two scrolls. Consistency
maybe because liberators with shields aren't a thing anymore?
i mean i see it in the picture but it's technically not an option anymore.
youre also comparing a unit with one optional two handed hammer to an entire unit of guys with two handed hammers.
it kind of stinks that they force you to arm units with options a certain way.
i dont think id give the stormcast chariot model a bow but you have to in spearhead.
youre also comparing a unit with one optional two handed hammer to an entire unit of guys with two handed hammers.
I was rather comparing their shield/two hammers options with two options for Annihilators But what I meant was, if you are streamlining weapon options then do it for all scrolls no matter what they have.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Why the "Stormcast Supplemental" in a different pdf?
Are these models that won't be in the new Stormcast book, ie. Legends? (squatted)
It literally says why.
The Stormcast Eternals also receive a Battletome Supplement that covers the warriors of the Sacrosanct Chamber and a selection of other miniatures which have left the range. It contains pages of lore alongside a new battle formation and warscroll cards, which will be Matched Play legal for one year.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Why the "Stormcast Supplemental" in a different pdf?
Are these models that won't be in the new Stormcast book, ie. Legends? (squatted)
It literally says why.
The Stormcast Eternals also receive a Battletome Supplement that covers the warriors of the Sacrosanct Chamber and a selection of other miniatures which have left the range. It contains pages of lore alongside a new battle formation and warscroll cards, which will be Matched Play legal for one year.
Sorry Kan, I missed that - I was obviously too eager to download, and busy with renaming the lovely named "P7AEmfJ9GdLyU7zd.pdf" files.
I bought the Dominion box set as my first foray into AoS. I then bought some extra models to add to the army. It would seem half of what I bought for the Stormcast are now squatted. I haven't even got round to painting all of them. And now I probably won't bother. I haven't pre-ordered any AoS4 and I'm not going to. The amount of time building and painting models for me, means a game should not use them like a DLC season. Time is too precious for that sort of selling scheme.
I dig it. Kind of heals the wound, as they could've just ignored/written them out as if they never existed. Strongly leaves open the possibility of a return with new kits down the road. Let TOW have the stuff that was made for that system!
Also, kind of confirms that Pestigor are on the way, right? No mention of Khorne variants makes me a sad lil Ungor, though.
Also Also, I got an Ironjawz Mawkrusha in my Stormbringer delivery this month. Not sure if that's a bug or a feature, because I got one last month as well. Seems like a steal!
hey guys, is the requirement for attacking now simply that the unit be in combat range or is it a model by model question still?
i cant seem to find a clear answer in the rules.
usernamesareannoying wrote: hey guys, is the requirement for attacking now simply that the unit be in combat range or is it a model by model question still?
i cant seem to find a clear answer in the rules.
Individual models in the unit have to be within combat range to attack. Mind, at 3", it usually shouldn't be difficult to do so.
Having read through the Spearhead rules I'm wondering what others think of this version?
Is the idea of preset forces off putting? I guess some factions have better units than others and will be stronger out the gate than others. There seems a reasonable mix of units though for a small battle.
As the Spearhead rules are free to download with the faction rules too, and through the Stormbringer magazine releases, I realised some Spearhead forces could maybe be bought separately for an even cheaper initial outlay.
Interested if others see this version only as an entry to Age of Sigmar proper or as a complete version to itself.
For me it's tempting but I'm also waiting to see the rest of the faction rules downloads.
lost_lilliputian wrote: Having read through the Spearhead rules I'm wondering what others think of this version?
Is the idea of preset forces off putting? I guess some factions have better units than others and will be stronger out the gate than others. There seems a reasonable mix of units though for a small battle.
As the Spearhead rules are free to download with the faction rules too, and through the Stormbringer magazine releases, I realised some Spearhead forces could maybe be bought separately for an even cheaper initial outlay.
Interested if others see this version only as an entry to Age of Sigmar proper or as a complete version to itself.
For me it's tempting but I'm also waiting to see the rest of the faction rules downloads.
The general consensus is that it has the potential to be a game unto itself with a couple of caveats. The variety comes from the cards which can impact ingame decisions and the variety of factions. If you and a friend are playing one faction against each repeatedly then it going to get pretty repetitive after about a dozen games. The more people you play against and the more spearheads you have yourself, the more longevity the game will have. Depending on the kind of player you are, the board size could be a problem. You are very much in combat from turn one.
Most games do seem to end up being close but this is achieved by many armies being able to bring dead units back and a generous underdog mechanic. Some people hate this sort of thing.
lost_lilliputian wrote: Having read through the Spearhead rules I'm wondering what others think of this version?
Is the idea of preset forces off putting? I guess some factions have better units than others and will be stronger out the gate than others. There seems a reasonable mix of units though for a small battle.
As the Spearhead rules are free to download with the faction rules too, and through the Stormbringer magazine releases, I realised some Spearhead forces could maybe be bought separately for an even cheaper initial outlay.
Interested if others see this version only as an entry to Age of Sigmar proper or as a complete version to itself.
For me it's tempting but I'm also waiting to see the rest of the faction rules downloads.
FWIW I'm buying the Skaventide box just for Spearhead. The reviews it is getting from pretty much everyone that got a review box are very promising. And being able to play two or three games of Spearhead in the time it takes to play most of a game of AoS* cannot be understated.
With regards to pre built lists - it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Looking at it as 'grass roots' Age of Sigmar then it makes sense. I like that it means you can buy any box, build it, and play it. I'm sure we'll see new rosters in White Dwarf and as and when they launch a 1.5/2nd edition.
* in my recent experience, 3hrs was around 3 turns of AoS which is just impractical and not fun.
lost_lilliputian wrote: Having read through the Spearhead rules I'm wondering what others think of this version?
Is the idea of preset forces off putting? I guess some factions have better units than others and will be stronger out the gate than others. There seems a reasonable mix of units though for a small battle.
As the Spearhead rules are free to download with the faction rules too, and through the Stormbringer magazine releases, I realised some Spearhead forces could maybe be bought separately for an even cheaper initial outlay.
Interested if others see this version only as an entry to Age of Sigmar proper or as a complete version to itself.
For me it's tempting but I'm also waiting to see the rest of the faction rules downloads.
The general consensus is that it has the potential to be a game unto itself with a couple of caveats. The variety comes from the cards which can impact ingame decisions and the variety of factions. If you and a friend are playing one faction against each repeatedly then it going to get pretty repetitive after about a dozen games. The more people you play against and the more spearheads you have yourself, the more longevity the game will have. Depending on the kind of player you are, the board size could be a problem. You are very much in combat from turn one.
Most games do seem to end up being close but this is achieved by many armies being able to bring dead units back and a generous underdog mechanic. Some people hate this sort of thing.
Tabletop_Magpie wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
lost_lilliputian wrote: Having read through the Spearhead rules I'm wondering what others think of this version?
Is the idea of preset forces off putting? I guess some factions have better units than others and will be stronger out the gate than others. There seems a reasonable mix of units though for a small battle.
As the Spearhead rules are free to download with the faction rules too, and through the Stormbringer magazine releases, I realised some Spearhead forces could maybe be bought separately for an even cheaper initial outlay.
Interested if others see this version only as an entry to Age of Sigmar proper or as a complete version to itself.
For me it's tempting but I'm also waiting to see the rest of the faction rules downloads.
FWIW I'm buying the Skaventide box just for Spearhead. The reviews it is getting from pretty much everyone that got a review box are very promising. And being able to play two or three games of Spearhead in the time it takes to play most of a game of AoS* cannot be understated.
With regards to pre built lists - it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Looking at it as 'grass roots' Age of Sigmar then it makes sense. I like that it means you can buy any box, build it, and play it. I'm sure we'll see new rosters in White Dwarf and as and when they launch a 1.5/2nd edition.
* in my recent experience, 3hrs was around 3 turns of AoS which is just impractical and not fun.
Thanks for the replies! I get the feeling it could be very good but we'll have to see how it unfolds for now. Either way Spearhead is probably a good start for me to get into playing.
lost_lilliputian wrote: Having read through the Spearhead rules I'm wondering what others think of this version?
Is the idea of preset forces off putting? I guess some factions have better units than others and will be stronger out the gate than others. There seems a reasonable mix of units though for a small battle.
As the Spearhead rules are free to download with the faction rules too, and through the Stormbringer magazine releases, I realised some Spearhead forces could maybe be bought separately for an even cheaper initial outlay.
Interested if others see this version only as an entry to Age of Sigmar proper or as a complete version to itself.
For me it's tempting but I'm also waiting to see the rest of the faction rules downloads.
FWIW I'm buying the Skaventide box just for Spearhead. The reviews it is getting from pretty much everyone that got a review box are very promising. And being able to play two or three games of Spearhead in the time it takes to play most of a game of AoS* cannot be understated.
With regards to pre built lists - it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Looking at it as 'grass roots' Age of Sigmar then it makes sense. I like that it means you can buy any box, build it, and play it. I'm sure we'll see new rosters in White Dwarf and as and when they launch a 1.5/2nd edition.
* in my recent experience, 3hrs was around 3 turns of AoS which is just impractical and not fun.
One worry I have regarding spearhead is so far it's been a lot of he who goes 1st wins. Once other won, once draw from what i have seen. Scores been close but nevertheless 1st goer seems to have huge advantage.
Shadow Walker wrote: So Liberators with two hammers or with hammer and shield have the same stats but Annihilators with hammer and shield or with two handed hammer have two scrolls. Consistency
maybe because liberators with shields aren't a thing anymore?
i mean i see it in the picture but it's technically not an option anymore.
youre also comparing a unit with one optional two handed hammer to an entire unit of guys with two handed hammers.
it kind of stinks that they force you to arm units with options a certain way.
i dont think id give the stormcast chariot model a bow but you have to in spearhead.
time for some counts as i think
4th is age of no weapon differences. We know new models have 2 weapons and weapon & shields(model seen). Rulewise same.
In same way clanrats, plague monks, chaos warriors all have same weapon. Vampire lord on zombie dragon? Likewise.
Not even all 1 in x weapons survive. Obr 4 armed guys lost it.
Though for some wbeird reason chaos chariots still have...
That's a fair view Belthanos, I haven't seen a game all the way through yet. Interesting though. Doesn't matter how close it is if you're on the back foot from the start I suppose!
Tabletop_Magpie wrote: That's a fair view Belthanos, I haven't seen a game all the way through yet. Interesting though. Doesn't matter how close it is if you're on the back foot from the start I suppose!
Guess it's because you have harder to score when you aren't at objectives 1st.
And double turn heavily punished now so that doesn't help much. Generally short of archaon going 1st will be more common even in full game(archaon funny one. His abiiliy is now very good going 2nd but if you go 1st it punishes. 50-50 who goes 1st and if archaon goes 1st then double for opponent is no penalty...if archaon went 2nd and gets double with ability again no penalty)
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: So this is doing the rounds. Usual mountain of salt. Biggest red flags are the return of endless spells and Idoneth getting anything at all.
That’s been doing the rounds for at least 2 weeks along with other rumours that contradict it, the original source is 4chan so not very credible.
Alpharius wrote: "First Chaos Dwarf teaser on April 1st" - for the LULZ.
That's the line that stood out to me too
Looking at next year's calendar April 1st, Fools day, falls on a Tuesday. Not sure if GW ever teased anything on a humble 'half priced Tuesday' before but they have played pranks on Fools days in the past.
Mind you I wouldn't put it past them to tease a Chaos Dwarf Blood Bowl team just for kicks.
all of this is possible but unless i see something else to support it, i'm disinclined to believe it, just on the basis of being a very random rumor
people keep saying that GW has given up on endless spells... and that's mostly true, but given how much their rules changed for this edition, it might be that GW is wanting to push them again, and so do another wave of releasing invocations for armies
If the list is older than last week's Rumour Engine, which is clearly a Hobgrot character...
More faction Endless Spells is a bit sus tho, it would be a very GW thing to finally figure out how to integrate them seamlessly in the rules and then not release any more ever again.
Short version why Bonesplitters are gone in the lore:
Skaven magic give Shamans headaches.
Shamans send some Bonesplitters to crump Incarnates to calm the realm magic and some to crump Skaven.
Headaches do get better but Bonesplitters like hitting Skaven and Incarnates so they want to stay there and not return until every last Skaven is crumped and we all know how infinite the Skaven are.
So might return in the future if they get bored of just hitting those two but I wouldn't bet on it
NAVARRO wrote: Oh I forgot my Salvage orcs are also gone now XD... What a great edition.
Well, you actually have them for this edition with this Battletome - it is 5th that is likely to see them disappear completely.
Plus, narratively speaking, they are going down with a satisfying crump...
Nope, they officially move Legends on June 1, 2025. Ditto the Sacroscant Chamber and Beastmen.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is anyone else concerned about their excessive use of the 'Companion' ability? I've seen a few instances where I'm a bit weirded out.
For example, on the War Hydra scroll, it's the Hydra's attacks that have 'Companion', but not its handlers. And if you look at things like the Soul Grinder or Mutalith, all of their attacks have 'Companion', even though they don't have companions!
NAVARRO wrote: Oh I forgot my Salvage orcs are also gone now XD... What a great edition.
Well, you actually have them for this edition with this Battletome - it is 5th that is likely to see them disappear completely.
Plus, narratively speaking, they are going down with a satisfying crump...
Nope, they officially move Legends on June 1, 2025. Ditto the Sacroscant Chamber and Beastmen.
furthermore, once they're in legends, i expect them to stick around their for a while, given how long the legends rules for 1st edition lasted, and likewise for 40k
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Is anyone else concerned about their excessive use of the 'Companion' ability? I've seen a few instances where I'm a bit weirded out.
For example, on the War Hydra scroll, it's the Hydra's attacks that have 'Companion', but not its handlers. And if you look at things like the Soul Grinder or Mutalith, all of their attacks have 'Companion', even though they don't have companions!
yeah it's a bit strange. shame, because the ability is otherwise an entirely reasonable choice. not sure why it ended up this way
To the surprise of... no one. I never had any of the old ones, but they looked extremely flimsy and very top heavy. New ones look better too although the old ones were cool enough at the time.
Wow Legends pdf looks to be head and shoulders above normal Legends quality, and I'd say Legends units are "aggressively costed" across the board. The Warcry/Underworlds warbands especially look interesting, a lot of them offer strong and cheap wizards inside a unit of bullet catchers, which is not a thing in the core warscrolls.
Dicking around with it and it actually seems extremely well made. I'm genuinely surprised. You even have an option to tab the lore on and off. Shame they're going to charge for it, but i have to give props to it so far.
For those who're interested, this is Skaventide minus a frame of 5x Liberators, the Reclusiarchs & Memorians, Knight-Questor and the Lord-Terminos(all are on a single frame so will likely be the 'big bundle' item for Stormcast this release) for the Stormcast and the Ratling Warpblaster, Jezzails, and 20 Clanrats for the Skaven side.
It even includes the Spearhead book for "Fire and Jade" with all of the faction Spearheads in it.
Kanluwen wrote: For those who're interested, this is Skaventide minus the Reclusiarchs and the Lord-Terminos for the Stormcast and the Ratling Warpblaster & 20 Clanrats for the Skaven side.
It even includes the Spearhead book for "Fire and Jade" with all of the faction Spearheads in it.
Not quite, the Stormcast are also minus 5 Liberators and the Conan like hero character whilst the Skaven the 3 Jezzails compared to Skaventide. It's 37 minis vs 74 in Skaventide. If it follows the 40k model it will be £130 vs £160 so Skaventide still represents a far better deal IMO.
Yeah, the Knight-Questor's easy to forget(it's on the Reclusiarch and Lord-Terminos frame) and I'm having to do counting while sleep-deprived. Cut me some slack!
Hehe, no shade intended Kan. Aye the Questor, that's the one. I always think the mid tier starter box represents a pretty decent deal.
I forget on the 40k side was Leviathan literally half the amount of minis vs the Ultimate Starter? At least that one had terrain in the starter and none in Leviathan. The AOS ones both have the same terrain.
I want to say that Leviathan to the 40k starters was a similar jump. The Marine Combat Patrol is a single thing of Infernus, Terminators, Terminator Captain, and the Terminator Librarian. It was missing the stuff on a single sprue(Sternguard, Lt with Combi, Apothecary Biologis), I want to say an extra frame of Infernus, and the Dreadnought.
I want to say that Leviathan to the 40k starters was a similar jump. The Marine Combat Patrol is a single thing of Infernus, Terminators, Terminator Captain, and the Terminator Librarian. It was missing the stuff on a single sprue(Sternguard, Lt with Combi, Apothecary Biologis), I want to say an extra frame of Infernus, and the Dreadnought.
Leviathan was 72 minis vs the Ultimate starter's 44 minis (plus terrain). I guess the main difference being the absence of bigger minis like the Ballistus and Screamer Killer, there is really nothing of that kind of size in Skaventide and the 2 big character models are both in the AOS Ultimate Starter.
Great question on price Shadow Walker, we will have to wait and see. At least now theses have been unveiled anyone sitting on the fence can make a choice as there still seem to be plenty of Skaventide sets knocking about.
I caved over the weekend and grabbed a Skaventide for USD $210 shipped on ebay and felt pretty good about that for only wanting the Skeven minis and the books. Now I'm seeing multiple BIN listings for $199 or so. I can't believe Skaventide will end up like Dominion, but I'm surprised at the prices so far.
Hmm, yeah I see skaventide being a more popular alternative to these boxes so long as it remains available. No jezzails is a big deal breaker as is the loss of half the clanrats IMO
Nope, they officially move Legends on June 1, 2025. Ditto the Sacroscant Chamber and Beastmen.
Umm, still means you have the rules for this edition?
Depends what you mean. This edition should last until 2027, so no you will not have the ability to use them competitively for this edition, just 1/rd of it, but those rules will still exist and be compatible if you dint care about tiers of officialdom etc
chaos0xomega wrote: Hmm, yeah I see skaventide being a more popular alternative to these boxes so long as it remains available. No jezzails is a big deal breaker as is the loss of half the clanrats IMO
Nope, they officially move Legends on June 1, 2025. Ditto the Sacroscant Chamber and Beastmen.
Umm, still means you have the rules for this edition?
Depends what you mean. This edition should last until 2027, so no you will not have the ability to use them competitively for this edition, just 1/rd of it, but those rules will still exist and be compatible if you dint care about tiers of officialdom etc
Outside of tourney play? If you were willing to play vs 4e Beastmen on May 31st, you shouldn't have an issue playing against them come June 1st or later.
chaos0xomega wrote: Hmm, yeah I see skaventide being a more popular alternative to these boxes so long as it remains available. No jezzails is a big deal breaker as is the loss of half the clanrats IMO
Nope, they officially move Legends on June 1, 2025. Ditto the Sacroscant Chamber and Beastmen.
Umm, still means you have the rules for this edition?
Depends what you mean. This edition should last until 2027, so no you will not have the ability to use them competitively for this edition, just 1/rd of it, but those rules will still exist and be compatible if you dint care about tiers of officialdom etc
I suspect the legends rules will survive longer than just this edition, considering that the 1st edition legends rules lasted through 3rd, and they have similar lifespans in 40k
StudentOfEtherium wrote: i'm just hoping that good skaventide prices continue into the fall, when i'll have the money on hand to pick up something like this again
I expect prices to fall over the next week or two as people get stock and start parting out the half and rules that they don't want.
It's hard to predict if Skaven or Stormcast will end up overstocked compared to the other. My gut feeling is that Skaven will be the more popular of the two this edition and stock of their models will get eaten up quicker. Stormcast are in an odd spot because they lost a lot of models (which is going to cause a bunch of people to give them up or not be as hot to update); and most of what they got is replacements in new sculpt form. Meanwhile Skaven haven't had new sculpts for most of these models in decades so there is a LOT more likely demand for them.
After a few weeks I'd expect prices to start climbing. So over the next week or two is when I'd want to do any big buying.
StudentOfEtherium wrote: i'm just hoping that good skaventide prices continue into the fall, when i'll have the money on hand to pick up something like this again
I expect prices to fall over the next week or two as people get stock and start parting out the half and rules that they don't want.
It's hard to predict if Skaven or Stormcast will end up overstocked compared to the other. My gut feeling is that Skaven will be the more popular of the two this edition and stock of their models will get eaten up quicker. Stormcast are in an odd spot because they lost a lot of models (which is going to cause a bunch of people to give them up or not be as hot to update); and most of what they got is replacements in new sculpt form. Meanwhile Skaven haven't had new sculpts for most of these models in decades so there is a LOT more likely demand for them.
After a few weeks I'd expect prices to start climbing. So over the next week or two is when I'd want to do any big buying.
quite unfortunately, the next week or two is also when I happen to be moving... I'll be prioritizing the stormcast stuff, tho, so I have a feeling I'll be able to get that (or maybe even two) once things settle down
StudentOfEtherium wrote: i'm just hoping that good skaventide prices continue into the fall, when i'll have the money on hand to pick up something like this again
I expect prices to fall over the next week or two as people get stock and start parting out the half and rules that they don't want.
It's hard to predict if Skaven or Stormcast will end up overstocked compared to the other. My gut feeling is that Skaven will be the more popular of the two this edition and stock of their models will get eaten up quicker. Stormcast are in an odd spot because they lost a lot of models (which is going to cause a bunch of people to give them up or not be as hot to update); and most of what they got is replacements in new sculpt form. Meanwhile Skaven haven't had new sculpts for most of these models in decades so there is a LOT more likely demand for them.
After a few weeks I'd expect prices to start climbing. So over the next week or two is when I'd want to do any big buying.
I'd say it's about 50/50 at the moment in terms of popularity from what i've seen. But is the prime time for part outs. Managed to get 20 libs for £20 last night.
Yeah for the next week or two I'd not imagine you'd have any trouble getting hold of anything in most regions.
I just snagged a Jade+cards for £15 on ebay and honestly I could see it going for less. Rules are still in the £20 bracket so I'm going to see if that comes down a little, but even still that's a huge discount on what GW will charge for the rulebook anyway.
Prometheum5 wrote: The Skaven halves are consistently priced higher than the Stormcast from what I've seen, usually around $125 vs $100.
Not really surprising. The Skaven half has more content than the Stormcast half. They have one extra unit. (10 vindicators cost the same as 20 hobgrots) and get a warmachine instead of one of their heroes.
What do people think the release plan for Spearhead is going to be then?
The Fire and Jade "battlepack" contains rules for games played in two of the Mortal Realms, which suggests three more "battlepacks" at some point, presumably with a double-sided board, some appropriate terrain and then... rules for alternate Spearhead armies? But with 25 armies in the Fire and Jade set, I can't see the others having the same amount.
Maybe they'll stretch them out over the course of the edition so one every 9 months or so and have armies incorporating new units that have come out since then?
Or maybe we'll just get some big Spearhead boxsets with two new forces in each along with the new battlepack stuff, more akin to Warcry?
The book covers all of the Spearheads/Vanguards that are currently available.
They've insinuated that we can expect an Ironjawz Spearhead at some point, so it's not wildly beyond belief that we could see books themed to Ghur, Shyish, Chamon, Hysh, and Ulgu.
Kanluwen wrote: The book covers all of the Spearheads/Vanguards that are currently available.
I mean theoretically a Spearhead is just a collection of units with custom rules. They don't have to be available in a single box - certainly if you wanted to try and get more money out of Spearhead players, you make a second one for each faction with units that have to be purchased individually.
Kanluwen wrote: The book covers all of the Spearheads/Vanguards that are currently available.
I mean theoretically a Spearhead is just a collection of units with custom rules. They don't have to be available in a single box - certainly if you wanted to try and get more money out of Spearhead players, you make a second one for each faction with units that have to be purchased individually.
Again:
This is what they said the setup would be from the outset. It's like how Combat Patrol is for 40k.
So far, we've gotten updated Combat Patrol sets with the books and a few extra Combat Patrols via White Dwarf.
Spearhead and Combat Patrol are clearly marketing ideas designed to be "one box and play" to make it really easy to sell the game to new people and also have a quick format to tempt existing customers into trying out other armies and so forth.
Your store manage wants to reach out and grab 1 box and 1 book and thrust them before a newbie and let them go play - even easier if its push-fit (no glue); but even if it requires glue its just 1 more item along with clippers.
New people especially need really simple product structure to get into a game; choosing models at will is hard if they don't have any idea what is good or bad or what does what or how to play or points or any of that stuff.
Overread wrote: Spearhead and Combat Patrol are clearly marketing ideas designed to be "one box and play" to make it really easy to sell the game to new people and also have a quick format to tempt existing customers into trying out other armies and so forth.
Your store manage wants to reach out and grab 1 box and 1 book and thrust them before a newbie and let them go play - even easier if its push-fit (no glue); but even if it requires glue its just 1 more item along with clippers.
New people especially need really simple product structure to get into a game; choosing models at will is hard if they don't have any idea what is good or bad or what does what or how to play or points or any of that stuff.
Yeah, they could techically use the format for narrative uniqe campaign lists, say Death units from many different factions, perhaps as a kind of desperate last stand lists with unusual allies, but its obvious they just make a simplified ruleset to introduce new gamers.
I find it hard to see the appeal of the format for experienced players.
Overread wrote: Spearhead and Combat Patrol are clearly marketing ideas designed to be "one box and play" to make it really easy to sell the game to new people and also have a quick format to tempt existing customers into trying out other armies and so forth.
Your store manage wants to reach out and grab 1 box and 1 book and thrust them before a newbie and let them go play - even easier if its push-fit (no glue); but even if it requires glue its just 1 more item along with clippers.
New people especially need really simple product structure to get into a game; choosing models at will is hard if they don't have any idea what is good or bad or what does what or how to play or points or any of that stuff.
Yeah, they could techically use the format for narrative uniqe campaign lists, say Death units from many different factions, perhaps as a kind of desperate last stand lists with unusual allies, but its obvious they just make a simplified ruleset to introduce new gamers.
I find it hard to see the appeal of the format for experienced players.
For more experienced players sometimes it can just be a quicker/smaller game format that's well supported. Just the same as Killteam.
Often more experienced gamers can be more time-limited compared to less experienced as more experienced are often older with more demands on life.
Of course its just a separate format option, you don't have to use it and regular 40K is right there for your more varied armies and bigger games .
Fayric wrote: I find it hard to see the appeal of the format for experienced players.
Very much of the same opinion, and feel that the mustering rules for Boarding Patrol are ideal for small games of 40K in general, and also a good starting point for beginners. There is no reason they can't do it for AOS as well...
...speaking of which, its a crying shame that AOS 3rd edition didn't have its own take on Arks of Omen. Lets face it, we'd have all been chuffed to have had our foot soldiers storming the dungeons!
I've managed to play a couple of quick games and i would say the format is fine for experienced players. Especially if you're short on time and just want to play it's nice to just grab exactly what you need and start playing.
Exactly - if you've got the models and time then by all means the full AoS game is likely going to be what you reach for; but if you've got a very new army or you want to play lots but can't commit to big armies with them*; or you have limited time.
Those are the moments that smaller games with different rules come to the fore.
Trying to make one set of rules that does small to large "kind of" works but you can always end up with an ideal sweet spot and anything far outside of that gets wonky.
Old World before the End Times is a fantastic example of a rules system that was very solid at 2K points but fell apart the lower and lower you went. by 500 points it just didn't really work well as a game for most armies
*even if not a cost barrier; time on building and painting is often a barrier
Being fair to Spearhead - compared to Combat Patrol - is that it at least provides some variation between games with it's card deck. Otherwise the variation comes only from running different factions - which is very expensive compared to swapping out Kill Teams or Underworld Warbands.
The Spearhead Gaming Pack is pretty decent; board, terrain, card deck all in one reasonably priced package. While still not convinced it would interest me as a mode I'd come back to beyond the first session or two, GW is supporting Spearhead better than they had Combat Patrol. The box sets are a bit cheaper as well.
deano2099 wrote: What do people think the release plan for Spearhead is going to be then?
The Fire and Jade "battlepack" contains rules for games played in two of the Mortal Realms, which suggests three more "battlepacks" at some point, presumably with a double-sided board, some appropriate terrain and then... rules for alternate Spearhead armies? But with 25 armies in the Fire and Jade set, I can't see the others having the same amount.
Maybe they'll stretch them out over the course of the edition so one every 9 months or so and have armies incorporating new units that have come out since then?
Or maybe we'll just get some big Spearhead boxsets with two new forces in each along with the new battlepack stuff, more akin to Warcry?
The Fire and Jade gaming pack doen't include the Fire&Jade book and as such doesn't have any army rules in it. Those are all in the downloadable faction packs. So no need to create more Spearheads just to release more gaming packs. Though I hope they do release alternate Spearheads in the future, so every faction has at least 2.
The only new thing in other realms gaming packs apart from a reskinned gameboard and maybe terrain would be the twist deck as that would be specific to the realm. Maybe new battle tactics but that is questionable.
So if they just ignore that the printed design of the gameboard doesn't fit other realms they could also just sell the 6-card twist decks for other realms on their own as nothing else would change much compared to the current Fire&Jade pack
Kanluwen wrote: The book covers all of the Spearheads/Vanguards that are currently available.
I mean theoretically a Spearhead is just a collection of units with custom rules. They don't have to be available in a single box - certainly if you wanted to try and get more money out of Spearhead players, you make a second one for each faction with units that have to be purchased individually.
Again:
This is what they said the setup would be from the outset. It's like how Combat Patrol is for 40k.
Oh I missed that, can you remember where they said it?
Overread wrote: Spearhead and Combat Patrol are clearly marketing ideas designed to be "one box and play" to make it really easy to sell the game to new people and also have a quick format to tempt existing customers into trying out other armies and so forth.
Your store manage wants to reach out and grab 1 box and 1 book and thrust them before a newbie and let them go play - even easier if its push-fit (no glue); but even if it requires glue its just 1 more item along with clippers.
New people especially need really simple product structure to get into a game; choosing models at will is hard if they don't have any idea what is good or bad or what does what or how to play or points or any of that stuff.
Yeah, they could techically use the format for narrative uniqe campaign lists, say Death units from many different factions, perhaps as a kind of desperate last stand lists with unusual allies, but its obvious they just make a simplified ruleset to introduce new gamers.
I find it hard to see the appeal of the format for experienced players.
It's aimed at new players but then it's also offering them an alternative to building a full 2000 point army. The Fire & Jade book actually talks directly about "collecting broad versus collecting deep" - that players might prefer to assemble a bunch of different Spearheads rather than a single big army.
It's especially appealing for those without a community that provides players and a play space. Requires smaller tables, quicker to teach - it works more in the board game model of just being able to invite a friend over a play a game where you provide both of the armies. And you can get a different playstyle by switching out to different ones. Plus from a hobby perspective people often prefer painting a bunch of different things than loads of the same.
With the addition of card play as part of the rules, I actually see this as more of attempt to bring in players of Underworlds, which continues to be pretty popular in its own right, with many of those players just picking up every warband that get released (even though the need for getting every card is much less now). I can certainly see the appeal to GW of wanting say, every 2-force collection box to be two new Spearheads, which then appeals to literally every player, rather than just collectors of those armies.
I'm curious for anyone who's played Spearhead yet if you think it would work on bigger boards. I love the idea of it, but all the bat reps I've seen so far make it look pretty cramped. I get that with only 4 turns they're trying to get you directly into the action, but I'm wondering how it would feel on something like a 3x3 board with more turns and more room to maneuver.
GW minimum/recommended board sizes are always somewhat arbitrary and these days basically amount too "whatever fits in the boxes we make"
I think it could work on larger boards, though larger boards might end up with you having to sacrifice the 4 turn limit or at least be flexible with it and perhaps focus on objective/kill game-ending states rather than a turn ending state. Purely because a larger board might well mean that several turns are "lost" to manoeuvring more than damage dealing or securing objectives.
Prometheum5 wrote: I'm curious for anyone who's played Spearhead yet if you think it would work on bigger boards. I love the idea of it, but all the bat reps I've seen so far make it look pretty cramped. I get that with only 4 turns they're trying to get you directly into the action, but I'm wondering how it would feel on something like a 3x3 board with more turns and more room to maneuver.
This is effectively what the 1000 point format is.
Prometheum5 wrote: I'm curious for anyone who's played Spearhead yet if you think it would work on bigger boards. I love the idea of it, but all the bat reps I've seen so far make it look pretty cramped. I get that with only 4 turns they're trying to get you directly into the action, but I'm wondering how it would feel on something like a 3x3 board with more turns and more room to maneuver.
This is effectively what the 1000 point format is.
Yes and no. I like the CP/Spearhead preset list aspect for quick and efficient games, but want to see if the actual on the table experience can be expanded a bit. I'll have to try it out, like Overread said.
Prometheum5 wrote: I'm curious for anyone who's played Spearhead yet if you think it would work on bigger boards. I love the idea of it, but all the bat reps I've seen so far make it look pretty cramped. I get that with only 4 turns they're trying to get you directly into the action, but I'm wondering how it would feel on something like a 3x3 board with more turns and more room to maneuver.
This is effectively what the 1000 point format is.
Yes and no. I like the CP/Spearhead preset list aspect for quick and efficient games, but want to see if the actual on the table experience can be expanded a bit. I'll have to try it out, like Overread said.
You can make a list, keep it, and play it over and over if you like -preset list you can even keep in a box with the exact models for super efficent gaming experience. Im not sure why you need GW to make the list for you.
Prometheum5 wrote: I'm curious for anyone who's played Spearhead yet if you think it would work on bigger boards. I love the idea of it, but all the bat reps I've seen so far make it look pretty cramped. I get that with only 4 turns they're trying to get you directly into the action, but I'm wondering how it would feel on something like a 3x3 board with more turns and more room to maneuver.
This is effectively what the 1000 point format is.
Yes and no. I like the CP/Spearhead preset list aspect for quick and efficient games, but want to see if the actual on the table experience can be expanded a bit. I'll have to try it out, like Overread said.
You can make a list, keep it, and play it over and over if you like -preset list you can even keep in a box with the exact models for super efficent gaming experience. Im not sure why you need GW to make the list for you.
I've made lists to fit cases before with the plans of using them for a long period of time. Every time I've done that GW has updated points or busted something before I can even get the damn thing on the table. I'm much more interested in a game mode that's removed from the seasons and meta churn.
"Legends miniatures aren’t suitable for tournament play. In Casual Matched Play, however, they are positively encouraged! Due to their limited availability, Warhammer Legends are restricted in competitive events to maintain a fair playing field – but we very much encourage their use in Casual Matched Play.
***From a Studio perspective, Warhammer Legends should be considered legal in all Casual Matched Play games throughout the entire edition, whether they be games with your friends or at your local club.***"
Yay!! Glad they put this in, will help calm a LOT of the worries at out local group!
My group tends to ignore whatever "official" comments GW make and just play to have fun. Update don't matter to us, if we find something causing a balance problem we discuss and come to an agreement then go back to having fun. Shocking though that might be to certain people, we prefer to be civilised and discuss rather than throw a tantrum that happens so often nowadays.
With half a dozen games under my belt few observations.
A) active player does his abilities 1st, then other. Big quality of life change. No longer asking opponent after every move redeploy or not!
B) units stick around in general more.
C) std losing all wards vs mortals rough at certain matchups.
D) abilities allowing moving will be golden. Skaven 3 clawstep, redepo minimum 4 etc. Kruleboy dirty trick can be nasty
E) double turns taken massive dive. Seen only as finishing blow for r4&5 which just saved time rather than decide game apart from 1 that i did at turn 2 which was act of desperation after quite possibly worst turn 1 i have ever had. No double and i would have been tabled(as is got stuck in vp's and just delayed getting tabled anyway)
F) counter charge something that is going to give me surprises for a while. And never plan deep strike charge vs 1 unit if enemy has cp left.
