I love the new models, but the drastic re-scaling has me thoroughly disenchanted. I have so many SM kits in the queue that have been undermined by the new Primaris SM's that my motivation to build & paint them has been utterly decimated.
What's next on the re-scaling block? The uncertainty is terrifying. The thought of my models, my entire collection, being obsoleted has me reeling from the hobby.
I truly dont get this line of thinking.... Primaris marines are not regular marines. Your army is still very much valid and in fact hasn't changed in the slightest. If you dont like these, dont buy or play them. Continue to do what you were doing as if they never happened.
oni wrote: I love the new models, but the drastic re-scaling has me thoroughly disenchanted. I have so many SM kits in the queue that have been undermined by the new Primaris SM's that my motivation to build & paint them has been utterly decimated.
What's next on the re-scaling block? The uncertainty is terrifying. The thought of my models, my entire collection, being obsoleted has me reeling from the hobby.
I share your concerns oni. Now get ready for a wave people telling you that you are either:
A). Living in the past. B). Won't accept change. C). That because Marines were smaller 30-odd years ago in the RT days, that this is not different. D). That because Deathwatch/Thousand Son Marines are slightly bigger than the current Tactical Marines that this is no real change at all. E). That everything is fine and nothing is broken because all armies will remain valid! Just ask all the Tomb King and Bretonnian players out there!
I love the new models, but the drastic re-scaling has me thoroughly disenchanted. I have so many SM kits in the queue that have been undermined by the new Primaris SM's that my motivation to build & paint them has been utterly decimated.
What's next on the re-scaling block? The uncertainty is terrifying. The thought of my models, my entire collection, being obsoleted has me reeling from the hobby.
Olay the game long enough and you,ll have already faced this problem more than once,
That said, for generic Marines, I feel we reached a point where rescaling them was all they could really do. At least with other armies there are swaths of units than can use updates eithout just making new things bigger to sell them.
I don,t expect non-Marines to get larger as it feels like they want the Marines to stand out more on the table against other armies. Which is fine in my book.
ClockworkZion wrote: Anyone else thinking that the Chaos Gods may not have been as giving with their boons as much as they were with the growth hormones since we don't extra wounds on Rubrics or being hinted at for the Death Guard?
Do we know Primaris get 2 wounds apiece?
It would appear so.
Wow, for 6 power they seem a little over the top maybe?
I dunno, they don't seem particularly amazing.
Same number of shots and strength as 5 Tacticals, with better range and some light rend. Good per-model firepower for troops, but not game-changingly so.
Their wounds mean an individual lasts twice as long against small arms fire, though on the flip side multi-wound damage ceases to be wasted. Space marines have never been amazing in assault, and a bonus attack is only gonna help a little.
Basically it's all down to whether they were intentionally undercosted to make them seem better artificially, otherwise you're probably better off with normal Tacticals for weight of fire.
C). That because Marines were smaller 30-odd years ago in the RT days, that this is not different.
Word.
I don't have a problem with the Biggimus Astartemus. It doesn't make my Black Templars obsolete, nor my 3rd edition rhinos or my HH marines, either.
But if you don't like them, I can understand and respect that, even if I don't agree with you. I think some of them look pretty sweet. The Super Nurgle Teminator, I'm hoping, is not going to be the size of terminator equivalents, and not all Chaos Space marines. We'll see.
Same number of shots and strength as 5 Tacticals, with better range and some light rend. Good per-model firepower for troops, but not game-changingly so.
Their wounds mean an individual lasts twice as long against small arms fire, though on the flip side multi-wound damage ceases to be wasted. Space marines have never been amazing in assault, and a bonus attack is only gonna help a little.
Yeah, if 10 tactical marines are 5 power, that's the same number of wounds for slightly less range and no "light rend".
Meh.
It's the Riptide I want to see. And the scatter bikes. What do they do? What do they cost? How do they smell? Things I want to know!
I love the new models, but the drastic re-scaling has me thoroughly disenchanted. I have so many SM kits in the queue that have been undermined by the new Primaris SM's that my motivation to build & paint them has been utterly decimated.
What's next on the re-scaling block? The uncertainty is terrifying. The thought of my models, my entire collection, being obsoleted has me reeling from the hobby.
I mean, I get the knee jerk reaction, but this isn't the first time that GW (or any model company for that matter) has changed their scaling or similar, and it won't be the last. It's just part of the modeling hobby as far as I'm concerned. Look at old Hive Tyrants, Bloodthirsters, or even Terminators.
And as has been said, these aren't replacing Marines just yet, they're a different unit altogether.
ClockworkZion wrote: I know you likely have an NDA but any chance you could break down how multi-damage weapons work versus say a squad of Terminators in terms of rolling to wounds, save and damage?
It's not complicated (though at least some will argue that it's too 'slow'):
1) Make To Wound rolls
2) Make Save rolls
3) If you are firing a (random) multi-damage weapon at a unit with multi-wound models, roll damage results one at a time
4) If the model has an additional rule that allows it to ignore damage (See: Disgusting Resilience), make those rolls
5) If the model survives, repeat #'s 3-5
C). That because Marines were smaller 30-odd years ago in the RT days, that this is not different.
Word.
I don't have a problem with the Biggimus Astartemus. It doesn't make my Black Templars obsolete, nor my 3rd edition rhinos or my HH marines, either.
But if you don't like them, I can understand and respect that, even if I don't agree with you.
See? I can't respect that. It's complaining for the sake of complaining in the hopes that they pay attention to you specifically. This re-scaling has absolutely nothing to do with anyones army. It's not like your army is obsolete or anything. It literally means nothing at all. All it is, is another boxed set that you can buy for your army if you choose to do so. It would be like them adding a new unit to the codex, which it is.
*EDIT: As said, it's exactly like the nid line. I remember when even Hive Tyrants were tiny. And I remember when they came out looking like the Queen from Aliens. I remember them changing that line every edition. Now see, that's something worth complaining about because the actual models you're using in your army change. This Primaris does not do that in the slightest.
I love the new models, but the drastic re-scaling has me thoroughly disenchanted. I have so many SM kits in the queue that have been undermined by the new Primaris SM's that my motivation to build & paint them has been utterly decimated.
What's next on the re-scaling block? The uncertainty is terrifying. The thought of my models, my entire collection, being obsoleted has me reeling from the hobby.
I truly dont get this line of thinking.... Primaris marines are not regular marines. Your army is still very much valid and in fact hasn't changed in the slightest. If you dont like these, dont buy or play them. Continue to do what you were doing as if they never happened.
The word on the net, which is very very very likely to be true, is GW are aiming to replace all Marines with Primaris Marines over the next few years. Evidence includes rescaled vehicles, Primaris only starter set, and the fluff allowing regular Marines to take a shot of gene-juice and become Primaris marines.
In this case, all Marines will become Primaris over the next few years. In 9th Ed, when they are all Primaris by default, a newbie player coming in won't know the difference between Primaris and regular as there will be no difference, but the rest of us will be forced to finish our chapters with these NuMarines whether we like it or not. Why is this a bad idea?
Consistancy for one. I don't want different looking Marines from the Primaris range. Quality, for another. The Primaris models are horrendous imo, and don't have the appeal that Mk7 marines have for me. Terrible fluff, for 3.
C). That because Marines were smaller 30-odd years ago in the RT days, that this is not different.
Word.
I don't have a problem with the Biggimus Astartemus. It doesn't make my Black Templars obsolete, nor my 3rd edition rhinos or my HH marines, either.
But if you don't like them, I can understand and respect that, even if I don't agree with you.
See? I can't respect that. It's complaining for the sake of complaining in the hopes that they pay attention to you specifically. This re-scaling has absolutely nothing to do with anyones army. It's not like your army is obsolete or anything. It literally means nothing at all. All it is, is another boxed set that you can buy for your army if you choose to do so. It would be like them adding a new unit to the codex, which it is.
But its not, its a rescale, which means my models will look goofy and wierd next to each other. Primaris as an optional elite subfaction within your chapter is fine, completely redoing the range is not.
Thanks nintura. You reminded me of the other obvious answer. Only fitting I include it.
ClockworkZion wrote: That said, for generic Marines, I feel we reached a point where rescaling them was all they could really do. At least with other armies there are swaths of units than can use updates eithout just making new things bigger to sell them.
You know I don't disagree.
There are only so many "Oh no, Centurions/Stormhawk Interceptors/Stormtalon Gunships/Stormraven Gunships/Stalker AA tanks/Thunderfire Cannons/Ironclad Dreadnoughts/Land Speeder Storms/Nephilim Jetfighters/Dark Talons/Darkshrouds/Land Speeder Vengeances/Deathwing Knights/Ravenwing Black Knights/Stormwolves/Stormfangs/Thunderwolf Cavalry have always been there, just slightly off camera!" before the retconning gets out of hand. Some might argue that it already is.
But to release a new range of Space Marines and then say "No! They're totes just differenter Marines and the old ones are still good! They're not going anywhere! Honest! Have we ever lied about that before in the past? Of course not! You can trust us. Also Chaos Marines are big now because... umm... THE WARP!" just reeks of a level of cynicism not seen since the Sigmarines came into existence.
C). That because Marines were smaller 30-odd years ago in the RT days, that this is not different.
Word.
I don't have a problem with the Biggimus Astartemus. It doesn't make my Black Templars obsolete, nor my 3rd edition rhinos or my HH marines, either.
But if you don't like them, I can understand and respect that, even if I don't agree with you.
See? I can't respect that. It's complaining for the sake of complaining in the hopes that they pay attention to you specifically. This re-scaling has absolutely nothing to do with anyones army. It's not like your army is obsolete or anything. It literally means nothing at all. All it is, is another boxed set that you can buy for your army if you choose to do so. It would be like them adding a new unit to the codex, which it is.
But its not, its a rescale, which means my models will look goofy and wierd next to each other. Primaris as an optional elite subfaction within your chapter is fine, completely redoing the range is not.
Then don't? Your army is not changing. You do not have to use Primaris. You can leave your army as is. We can repeat this all friggin day long. Hell, phase them out over time if you like. Or don't.
Jesus I wish! But for now, I'll use mine But I really want to see what his rules will look like. He's never died in a game yet and is always super effective.
Drills are flat out better? Disappointing, I bought claws because they look significantly cooler.
I guess you're meant to proxy the storm cannon as a butcher cannon and the big Melta as the soul burner.
Remember that this doesn't have a point cost. I bet when you look up the point cost, it cost to add drills to the model. Gives you a reason to stick with claws.
But to release a new range of Space Marines and then say "No! They're totes just differenter Marines and the old ones are still good! They're not going anywhere! Honest! Have we ever lied about that before in the past? Of course not! You can trust us. Also Chaos Marines are big now because... umm... THE WARP!" just reeks of a level of cynicism not seen since the Sigmarines came into existence.
And the suspension of disbelief that the Sigmarines were exactly what the nickname implies was just as strong in a segment of the fanbase two years ago. I said when these were first announced that we'd see terminator, devastator, and assault marine primaris equivalents and we've already started to. The next step is in a couple of months when lots of various marine flavors are taken off of the must stock list for retailers and go direct only. But remember that doesn't change/affect/replace your existing Astartes Secundus army!
Deadshot wrote: I never actually found Space Marines to require a Lieutenant or any such middle-man. Each officer only has 9 men to worry about: The Sergeant only has the 10 Marines in his squad. The Captain only has 10 Sergeants in his company, who are capable of handling the individual 9 Marines in their squad without the Captain needing to micromanage everything. And the Chapter Master has his 10 Captains that he can basically wash his hands and let them handle 99% of matters inside their own company.
For command squads, you have the designated Veteran Sergeant who stands as the second in command. That's a Lieutenant without needed to add that rank in. Bearing in mind, the rank is Veteran Sergeant, not a Sergeant who is also very experienced. Its the SM equivilent to a Colour Sergeant, who ranks above "Sergeant."
Except there was not a way to have such a veteran sergeant to be your mandatory HQ. It doesn't matter what this commander-lesser-than-a-captain is actually called, one is still logically needed. (And no, librarians and chaplains don't count, they're not line officers.)
A veteran sergeant is more than capable of leading a small force such as 2 Tactical Squads, a Predator and a techmarine. Why do you need a Lieutenant to micromanage tiny excursions? If the tiny strike force was that vital you are better off having the top guy (Captain) lead it himself to ensure success, while leaving the wider battle to your right hand man. There doesn't need to be a middleman.
The 2 Troops 1 HQ system is also a relic of 5th Ed that's been slowly phased out, and now entirely obselete unless desired. No longer needing a minor officer to fill up tax.
The 2 Squads and an HQ describes a Platoon. Platoon Leaders are Lieutenants. It makes perfect sense to have a Lieutenant. Honestly, the Veteran Sergeant you are describing IS in the role of a Lieutenant. Keep in mind, Platoons have Platoon Sergeants as well, so it gets a little muddy. The Command element would still be an Officer, not an NCO (though Space Marines don't have pay grades or commissions, so...). The fact that Space Marine Battle Brothers can elevate from a Scout all the way to Chapter Master (who represents a Colonel or General Officer) muddies this as well.
Nvs wrote: So with a Death Guard datasheet, can we expect to see Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights?
If you go every other day until the 17th, there are 12 more days for Faction Focus articles.
GSC, BA, DA, Sisters, Agents of the Imperium, Orks, Necrons, Ynnari, Harlequins, Chaos Knights, Grey Knights, Space Marines. Not necessarily in that order, but that's 12 articles leading right up to release.
Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.
C). That because Marines were smaller 30-odd years ago in the RT days, that this is not different.
Word.
I don't have a problem with the Biggimus Astartemus. It doesn't make my Black Templars obsolete, nor my 3rd edition rhinos or my HH marines, either.
But if you don't like them, I can understand and respect that, even if I don't agree with you.
See? I can't respect that. It's complaining for the sake of complaining in the hopes that they pay attention to you specifically. This re-scaling has absolutely nothing to do with anyones army. It's not like your army is obsolete or anything. It literally means nothing at all. All it is, is another boxed set that you can buy for your army if you choose to do so. It would be like them adding a new unit to the codex, which it is.
But its not, its a rescale, which means my models will look goofy and wierd next to each other. Primaris as an optional elite subfaction within your chapter is fine, completely redoing the range is not.
Then don't? Your army is not changing. You do not have to use Primaris. You can leave your army as is. We can repeat this all friggin day long. Hell, phase them out over time if you like. Or don't.
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
docdoom77 wrote: Here's an example of a weapon that causes mortal wounds. Note it skips the "to-wound" roll.
Don't expect that to be the norm.
I DO expect it to be the norm (the no "to-wound" roll, I mean). We've been given exactly two examples of mortal wounds and neither one rolls to wound. Could there be some "on a to-wound roll of '6'" it causes a mortal wound? Certainly. But I believe that will be the exception.
Eh, I dunno. 16 power level puts it way above plenty of stuff in the game.
I think if you look at this purely compared to the things we've seen to date it'll wreck most of them but leviathans in 30k were brutal machines any way.
There's plenty of stuff in game that can kill them now and T8 isn't exactly out of this earth.
Given the high points cost I think we'll need to see what other stuff is in the same category first
Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.
Honestly, that is not great if you are shooting at infantry, since they are only one wound a piece.
Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.
Have you seen the power level on it? Points wise, with drop pod and gear, my Leviathan comes to 380 points. It should be over the top (and I still think it's too cheap. It wrecks 400 point knights if you get the charge, even baneblades. But then mines built for doing that.)
I think you'd -mostly- want to keep at least one close combat weapon to take advantage of that brutal S16 4 damage and nasty Melee profile... But two of those Grav Bombards in a drop pod would make a nasty anti-superheavy platform using the 5 damage.
docdoom77 wrote: Here's an example of a weapon that causes mortal wounds. Note it skips the "to-wound" roll.
Don't expect that to be the norm.
I DO expect it to be the norm (the no "to-wound" roll, I mean). We've been given exactly two examples of mortal wounds and neither one rolls to wound. Could there be some "on a to-wound roll of '6'" it causes a mortal wound? Certainly. But I believe that will be the exception.
"One of only a handful" is not in reference to the fact that it does Mortal Wounds (plenty of weapons do), but in reference to the fact that it skips the To Wound roll. Skipping the To Wound roll is what you should not expect to be the norm.
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
Im over the conversation. Play the game or don't play the game. Buy the models or don't buy the models. Do whatever you want. Just stop complaining to us about it. The negativity is depressing
docdoom77 wrote: Here's an example of a weapon that causes mortal wounds. Note it skips the "to-wound" roll.
Don't expect that to be the norm.
I DO expect it to be the norm (the no "to-wound" roll, I mean). We've been given exactly two examples of mortal wounds and neither one rolls to wound. Could there be some "on a to-wound roll of '6'" it causes a mortal wound? Certainly. But I believe that will be the exception.
"One of only a handful" is not in reference to the fact that it does Mortal Wounds (plenty of weapons do), but in reference to the fact that it skips the To Wound roll. Skipping the To Wound roll is what you should not expect to be the norm.
Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.
In fairness, the current leviathan cost about as much as a knight and given we know both 8th profiles isn't as powerful.
My big question is how forgeworld units will be able to slot into the new command system. The independent detachments and formations of 7th made including FW units impossible which I hope has changed.
Nvs wrote: So with a Death Guard datasheet, can we expect to see Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights?
If you go every other day until the 17th, there are 12 more days for Faction Focus articles.
GSC, BA, DA, Sisters, Agents of the Imperium, Orks, Necrons, Ynnari, Harlequins, Chaos Knights, Grey Knights, Space Marines. Not necessarily in that order, but that's 12 articles leading right up to release.
Sisters would be part of Agents of the Imperium, and you left out Talons of the Emperor - which is listed on the front of the Codexes. I think Space Wolves will get covered too.
Drills are flat out better? Disappointing, I bought claws because they look significantly cooler.
I guess you're meant to proxy the storm cannon as a butcher cannon and the big Melta as the soul burner.
Remember that this doesn't have a point cost. I bet when you look up the point cost, it cost to add drills to the model. Gives you a reason to stick with claws.
At the moment that's a cost of 5 points, and you only need to actually upgrade one. Even if it's a big jump in cost for a drill, you still don't need to get two.
I use old Rhinos (2nd edition I think), and have used them in tournaments without any difficulty.
If the sky really is falling, and all marines will be replaced with Adeptus Restartes in the next couple of years, there's even less need to buy new kits. Just keep using your regular marines. If need be make the bases a little higher, if 8th uses TLOS and it's a big deal to your opponents.
docdoom77 wrote: Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.
Doc: I'm a playtester, with the Adepticon team. If you're referring to psychic powers, you may be correct. If you're referring to weapons, you're not.
buddha wrote:In fairness, the current leviathan cost about as much as a knight and given we know both 8th profiles isn't as powerful.
My big question is how forgeworld units will be able to slot into the new command system. The independent detachments and formations of 7th made including FW units impossible which I hope has changed.
Looks like there won't be any detachments that aren't HQ/Troops/Elites/Fast/Heavy, so no situations where you can't legally take one. For now, anyway.
Nvs wrote: So with a Death Guard datasheet, can we expect to see Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights?
If you go every other day until the 17th, there are 12 more days for Faction Focus articles.
GSC, BA, DA, Sisters, Agents of the Imperium, Orks, Necrons, Ynnari, Harlequins, Chaos Knights, Grey Knights, Space Marines. Not necessarily in that order, but that's 12 articles leading right up to release.
Sisters would be part of Agents of the Imperium, and you left out Talons of the Emperor - which is listed on the front of the Codexes. I think Space Wolves will get covered too.
I thought Sisters were separate, my bad.
Yeah the list might be off, maybe they'll do a twofer on some of them.
docdoom77 wrote: Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.
Doc: I'm a playtester, with the Adepticon team. If you're referring to psychic powers, you may be correct. If you're referring to weapons, you're not.
That's nice to hear. Thanks. Maybe GW should pick their examples better.
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.
buddha wrote:In fairness, the current leviathan cost about as much as a knight and given we know both 8th profiles isn't as powerful.
My big question is how forgeworld units will be able to slot into the new command system. The independent detachments and formations of 7th made including FW units impossible which I hope has changed.
Looks like there won't be any detachments that aren't HQ/Troops/Elites/Fast/Heavy, so no situations where you can't legally take one. For now, anyway.
Nvs wrote: So with a Death Guard datasheet, can we expect to see Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights?
If you go every other day until the 17th, there are 12 more days for Faction Focus articles.
GSC, BA, DA, Sisters, Agents of the Imperium, Orks, Necrons, Ynnari, Harlequins, Chaos Knights, Grey Knights, Space Marines. Not necessarily in that order, but that's 12 articles leading right up to release.
Sisters would be part of Agents of the Imperium, and you left out Talons of the Emperor - which is listed on the front of the Codexes. I think Space Wolves will get covered too.
I thought Sisters were separate, my bad.
Yeah the list might be off, maybe they'll do a twofer on some of them.
But all of you skipped Thousand Sons :(
All they got was a Rubric article. From what little we know of DG from their article it already feels like the future CSM will be dominated by Nurgle and likely Khorne like the past 20 years.
buddha wrote: In fairness, the current leviathan cost about as much as a knight and given we know both 8th profiles isn't as powerful.
My big question is how forgeworld units will be able to slot into the new command system. The independent detachments and formations of 7th made including FW units impossible which I hope has changed.
That FW datasheet fits in just normally. It's a HEAVY (Symbol in upper right corner), Faction Keywords: Chaos, <Mark of Chaos>, Heretic Astartes, <Legion>
So, if put in a Khorne army It is just a heavy support.
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
*Looks at my Rogue Trader/2E armies*
Yeah...you know I'm pretty sure you can still play with them...
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.
I believe they're going the "priest with a plasma gun" route: the rules for old marines will last a long time/indefinitely; however, production of new kits relating to this line will cease with the exclusion of FW Horus Heresy stuff. In which case I guess Forgeworld will have to have *some* variability in what they product, even if it's all marines
All they got was a Rubric article. From what little we know of DG from their article it already feels like the future CSM will be dominated by Nurgle and likely Khorne like the past 20 years.
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.
I believe they're going the "priest with a plasma gun" route: the rules for old marines will last a long time/indefinitely; however, production of new kits relating to this line will cease with the exclusion of FW Horus Heresy stuff. In which case I guess Forgeworld will have to have *some* variability in what they product, even if it's all marines
I'd be utterly shocked if this Autumn doesn't have a board game with plastic Mark 2 or Mark 5.
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
*Looks at my Rogue Trader/2E armies*
Yeah...you know I'm pretty sure you can still play with them...
No! As peeps on this forum has said, you cannot as soon as Primaris Marines are released! GW will ban you! They will come round your house and smash them! And gak on your bed while they're there!
Or, you know, everyone can play with their toys forever more. One of the other.
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
*Looks at my Rogue Trader/2E armies*
Yeah...you know I'm pretty sure you can still play with them...
I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, and I'm positive I'm not the only one who wants Primaris marines to be no more than a single elite unit or centrepiece. The force is Space Marines, not Primaris Space Marines. Give them their own faction and don't force me to swallow that bs. (Addressed to GW)
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.
I believe they're going the "priest with a plasma gun" route: the rules for old marines will last a long time/indefinitely; however, production of new kits relating to this line will cease with the exclusion of FW Horus Heresy stuff. In which case I guess Forgeworld will have to have *some* variability in what they product, even if it's all marines
docdoom77 wrote: Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.
Doc: I'm a playtester, with the Adepticon team. If you're referring to psychic powers, you may be correct. If you're referring to weapons, you're not.
"Mortal Wounds are a new mechanic too – these cannot be saved by any means and punch straight through thick armour and even invulnerable saves! Ouch."
This is from the psychic article. It doesn't claim mortal wounds specific to psychic powers punch through armor and saves, but just in general. It's possible these articles are incorrect, but it may also be possible that what you play-tested didn't make the cut.
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.
I believe they're going the "priest with a plasma gun" route: the rules for old marines will last a long time/indefinitely; however, production of new kits relating to this line will cease with the exclusion of FW Horus Heresy stuff. In which case I guess Forgeworld will have to have *some* variability in what they product, even if it's all marines
I'd be utterly shocked if this Autumn doesn't have a board game with plastic Mark 2 or Mark 5.
I don't know if we'll be seeing another Horus Heresy boxset. The whole purpose of these kits was to encourage people to get into 30k, and the two sets with Mk-III and Mk-IV covers that- the rest they want you to purchase from FW.
The good thing about the new-40k is it will give FW a number of opportunities for entirely novel kits.
Accolade wrote: I don't know if we'll be seeing another Horus Heresy boxset. The whole purpose of these kits was to encourage people to get into 30k, and the two sets with Mk-III and Mk-IV covers that- the rest they want you to purchase from FW.
They've been super top selling items. I have overwhelming confidence that there'll be a third on that alone, it's basically liscence to print money.
H.B.M.C. wrote: There are only so many "Oh no, Centurions/Stormhawk Interceptors/Stormtalon Gunships/Stormraven Gunships/Stalker AA tanks/Thunderfire Cannons/Ironclad Dreadnoughts/Land Speeder Storms/Nephilim Jetfighters/Dark Talons/Darkshrouds/Land Speeder Vengeances/Deathwing Knights/Ravenwing Black Knights/Stormwolves/Stormfangs/Thunderwolf Cavalry have always been there, just slightly off camera!" before the retconning gets out of hand. Some might argue that it already is.
But to release a new range of Space Marines and then say "No! They're totes just differenter Marines and the old ones are still good! They're not going anywhere! Honest! Have we ever lied about that before in the past? Of course not! You can trust us. Also Chaos Marines are big now because... umm... THE WARP!" just reeks of a level of cynicism not seen since the Sigmarines came into existence.
Yeah... that's about how I feel. But I'm pretty distrustful of how they're handling this, and it's really feeling like "new" GW is just smarter/better PR GW doing the same old things.
I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, .
2015 Marines are almost as big as a 94 Terminator. 88 Marine is a dwarf compared to 15 Marine. No one is going to melt down your marines and tell you you can't play anymore.
No! As peeps on this forum has said, you cannot as soon as Primaris Marines are released! GW will ban you! They will come round your house and smash them! And gak on your bed while they're there!
H.B.M.C. wrote: There are only so many "Oh no, Centurions/Stormhawk Interceptors/Stormtalon Gunships/Stormraven Gunships/Stalker AA tanks/Thunderfire Cannons/Ironclad Dreadnoughts/Land Speeder Storms/Nephilim Jetfighters/Dark Talons/Darkshrouds/Land Speeder Vengeances/Deathwing Knights/Ravenwing Black Knights/Stormwolves/Stormfangs/Thunderwolf Cavalry have always been there, just slightly off camera!" before the retconning gets out of hand. Some might argue that it already is.
But to release a new range of Space Marines and then say "No! They're totes just differenter Marines and the old ones are still good! They're not going anywhere! Honest! Have we ever lied about that before in the past? Of course not! You can trust us. Also Chaos Marines are big now because... umm... THE WARP!" just reeks of a level of cynicism not seen since the Sigmarines came into existence.
Yeah... that's about how I feel. But I'm pretty distrustful of how they're handling this, and it's really feeling like "new" GW is just smarter/better PR GW doing the same old things.
I'm curious to know how you gents think gw should have handled this exactly? Should they have told everyone these marines will replace old marines eventually, or that they replace old marines right out of the dark imperium box, with no new statline and no primaris 'keyword.' Or that they will no longer produce the old marine kits in X amount of years? Would that make fewer people angry? I seriously doubt it.
I doubt they even know those time frames to tell customers.
I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, .
2015 Marines are almost as big as a 94 Terminator. 88 Marine is a dwarf compared to 15 Marine. No one is going to melt down your marines and tell you you can't play anymore.
Yeah, but what about the rest of my collection? I only have about a company's worth, what about the other 900 marines I haven't yet got to build and will never get the chance to?
H.B.M.C. wrote: There are only so many "Oh no, Centurions/Stormhawk Interceptors/Stormtalon Gunships/Stormraven Gunships/Stalker AA tanks/Thunderfire Cannons/Ironclad Dreadnoughts/Land Speeder Storms/Nephilim Jetfighters/Dark Talons/Darkshrouds/Land Speeder Vengeances/Deathwing Knights/Ravenwing Black Knights/Stormwolves/Stormfangs/Thunderwolf Cavalry have always been there, just slightly off camera!" before the retconning gets out of hand. Some might argue that it already is.
But to release a new range of Space Marines and then say "No! They're totes just differenter Marines and the old ones are still good! They're not going anywhere! Honest! Have we ever lied about that before in the past? Of course not! You can trust us. Also Chaos Marines are big now because... umm... THE WARP!" just reeks of a level of cynicism not seen since the Sigmarines came into existence.
Yeah... that's about how I feel. But I'm pretty distrustful of how they're handling this, and it's really feeling like "new" GW is just smarter/better PR GW doing the same old things.
I'm curious to know how you gents think gw should have handled this exactly? Should they have told everyone these marines will replace old marines eventually, or that they replace old marines right out of the dark imperium box, with no new statline and no primaris 'keyword.' Or that they will no longer produce the old marine kits in X amount of years? Would that make fewer people angry? I seriously doubt it.
I doubt they even know those time frames to tell customers.
Categorically state "Primaris Marines will not replace regular marines and we will support both ranges" or "Primaris Marines will eventually replace regulars, but not for several years, get your panic buying while you can!" or else just don't bother with these abominations.
I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, .
2015 Marines are almost as big as a 94 Terminator. 88 Marine is a dwarf compared to 15 Marine. No one is going to melt down your marines and tell you you can't play anymore.
Yeah, but what about the rest of my collection? I only have about a company's worth, what about the other 900 marines I haven't yet got to build and will never get the chance to?
I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, .
2015 Marines are almost as big as a 94 Terminator. 88 Marine is a dwarf compared to 15 Marine. No one is going to melt down your marines and tell you you can't play anymore.
Yeah, but what about the rest of my collection? I only have about a company's worth, what about the other 900 marines I haven't yet got to build and will never get the chance to?
What about them?
I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).
docdoom77 wrote: Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.
Doc: I'm a playtester, with the Adepticon team. If you're referring to psychic powers, you may be correct. If you're referring to weapons, you're not.
"Mortal Wounds are a new mechanic too – these cannot be saved by any means and punch straight through thick armour and even invulnerable saves! Ouch."
This is from the psychic article. It doesn't claim mortal wounds specific to psychic powers punch through armor and saves, but just in general. It's possible these articles are incorrect, but it may also be possible that what you play-tested didn't make the cut.
McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.
Slinky wrote: eBay will be awash with current-size marines for years on end, just as it is today.
New on sprue? Doubt it, there's only so much stock in the world.
I just sold a new on sprue, unpunched original 1990 HeroQuest game last year. If they no longer support marine kits several years from now, I'm sure there will still be new on sprue models years later.
It's fine, don't endanger your ability to playtest in the future. Honestly, we are going to get out answer within the next couple weeks straight from being able to read the small core rules foldout.
I would assume the demos on the 3rd are going to allow us a look at that item.
Slinky wrote: eBay will be awash with current-size marines for years on end, just as it is today.
New on sprue? Doubt it, there's only so much stock in the world.
You can still get beaky marines on sprue now, 20 years later ! Lets not hyperbole too much.
Will I still be able to get every single currently produced Space Marine kit with all its chapter specific variants and Pick-N-mix-ability in abundance, new on sprue, whenever I want, without prices skyrocketing as people realise this is the ONLY source of said models, as with older metal models and trading cards? Absolutely not.
I have no problems with Primaris being added to the game, on the promise that the current marine line isn't going to vanish the way Brettonia and Tomb Kings did.
I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).
I'm just curious what you're trying to say with all these posts. Because it sounds like you're just looking for pity when it's clear than you're in the minority worrying about this "problem".
Scale, design, and size change over the years. That picture showed that it's happened multiple times to space marines alone, and Xenos and Daemons have gone through it as well. You can either keep playing the game or not. Whining and begging for attention isn't going to change the situation.
McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.
It says "it punches straight through thick armor and even invulnerable saves." How exactly should we evaluate that statement. Either it's worded correctly or it isn't. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but you have stated so. You could be correct, I've no idea.
McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.
It says "it punches straight through thick armor and even invulnerable saves." How exactly should we evaluate that statement. Either it's worded correctly or it isn't. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but you have stated so. You could be correct, I've no idea.
Punching through armor and invuln saves has nothing to do with "to wound" rolls, so both his statement and that statement can be true.
McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.
It says "it punches straight through thick armor and even invulnerable saves." How exactly should we evaluate that statement. Either it's worded correctly or it isn't. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but you have stated so. You could be correct, I've no idea.
That has nothing to do with how the MW is generated. There are plenty of abilities in AoS that state something like "on a 6+ to Wound, this deals a Mortal Wound instead".
I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).
I'm just curious what you're trying to say with all these posts. Because it sounds like you're just looking for pity when it's clear than you're in the minority worrying about this "problem".
Scale, design, and size change over the years. That picture showed that it's happened multiple times to space marines alone, and Xenos and Daemons have gone through it as well. You can either keep playing the game or not. Whining and begging for attention isn't going to change the situation.
I'm replying to quotes in the conversation with me. I said I don't like it, people asked why, I gave reasons, they respond, I respond, ad infinitum until the conversation finishes, its how conversation works is all.
I'm not looking for attention or pity. With that last post I'm just looking for enough respect when I say "I'm sad my models will no longer be produced and I will no longer be able to participate in the hobby" that people don't say "boo hoo buy something else."
Scale, design and size change, but replacement is something different. Deathwatch are larger size, but same scale, and don't replace anything, they add to the range. Primaris will eventually replace, not add, to the line. I want to keep painting and collective (don't really play anymore though) for the foreseeable future, but my models are going to be killed off. That's all I'm saying.
I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).
I'm just curious what you're trying to say with all these posts. Because it sounds like you're just looking for pity when it's clear than you're in the minority worrying about this "problem".
Scale, design, and size change over the years. That picture showed that it's happened multiple times to space marines alone, and Xenos and Daemons have gone through it as well. You can either keep playing the game or not. Whining and begging for attention isn't going to change the situation.
I'm replying to quotes in the conversation with me. I said I don't like it, people asked why, I gave reasons, they respond, I respond, ad infinitum until the conversation finishes, its how conversation works is all.
I'm not looking for attention or pity. With that last post I'm just looking for enough respect when I say "I'm sad my models will no longer be produced and I will no longer be able to participate in the hobby" that people don't say "boo hoo buy something else."
Scale, design and size change, but replacement is something different. Deathwatch are larger size, but same scale, and don't replace anything, they add to the range. Primaris will eventually replace, not add, to the line. I want to keep painting and collective (don't really play anymore though) for the foreseeable future, but my models are going to be killed off. That's all I'm saying.
You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear. There are no stated plans for this, there have been multiple statements that Primaris != Tacticals. All you're doing is imagining the worst case scenario in your mind and trying to project it onto reality.
I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).
I'm just curious what you're trying to say with all these posts. Because it sounds like you're just looking for pity when it's clear than you're in the minority worrying about this "problem".
Scale, design, and size change over the years. That picture showed that it's happened multiple times to space marines alone, and Xenos and Daemons have gone through it as well. You can either keep playing the game or not. Whining and begging for attention isn't going to change the situation.
What's wrong with making something totally random up and then complaining that a company didn't specifically address the nonsense you made up??
Come on, you're talking like he's being unreasonable!
GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.
But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.
I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.
Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.
To clarify, I'm talking a situation where you ONLY want the rulebook, and have no interest in the models or other contents. There are only 3 outcomes:
Profit
Break even
Loss
Profit will not happen as it requires sale of the contents at over retail value.
Break even will very likely not happen as it requires sale AT retail value, in which case the buyer would be better off buying up the whole set and selling on the rulebook. Except they need the ruleboook too, so why sell?
Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?
Selling individual squads from starters at way above their share of the starter price, but still quite a bit below retail for the same squad in its multipart incarnation, has been a thing since forever and will continue to be. You will easily make quite a big profit if you buy the starter, keep the book and sell all the squads individually. people buy them because they don't have the time to buy and sell themselves, all they want is that one squad and they don't give a feck about the price as long as it's well below squad box price. Its a win-win.
I didn't have a leviathan dreadnought. Can anyone comment on if the grav-flux bombard worked similarly to other grav weapons as an indication of what to expect for grav guns/cannons?
You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.
No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.
WEEE finally we get in on the leviathan train and omfg lol That thing sounds insane Oo.
Another thing of note is the mark of chaos keyword and legion affiliation.
The rubric marines did NOT have the mark key word and before our vehicles didn't benefit of legion rules due to not having VotLW, it seems now they do.
I suppose it might take the form naming a god though. Rubrics simply have Tzeentch listed, which might well be an instance of a mark.
Could just as well be Mark of * though and we get rules affecting models with the mark of * and actual cult troops are treated differently?
What a glorious day to be a traitor Although this being ForgeWorld, it doesn't necessarily mean we will get a new model.
Can't wait for conversions of these things either way, thgouh I might simply splurge for a decimator. Always liked the model, but the rules were a bit iffy.
McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.
It says "it punches straight through thick armor and even invulnerable saves." How exactly should we evaluate that statement. Either it's worded correctly or it isn't. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but you have stated so. You could be correct, I've no idea.
Punching through armor and invuln saves has nothing to do with "to wound" rolls, so both his statement and that statement can be true.
Right, maybe I'm reading too much into armor to toughness changes and not armor 'saving throws.'
Warhams-77 wrote: Painted miniatures can be seen in many (GW?) shops by now - by Lastlostboy on gw-fanworld.de forum
Why are the Plague marines not the same size as the standard space marine? Shouldn't the Primaris Space Marines tower over the Plague Marine too? Or is everything being upscaled?
You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.
No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.
Says who? Your assumption is that Primaris will replace Marines. My assumption is that, if they do remove the current Marines from the line, they will replace them with new Tacticals (probably in a larger scale) and not just remove them.
You know what both of those assumptions have in common? Neither are based on anything but feelings.
GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.
But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.
I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.
Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.
To clarify, I'm talking a situation where you ONLY want the rulebook, and have no interest in the models or other contents. There are only 3 outcomes:
Profit
Break even
Loss
Profit will not happen as it requires sale of the contents at over retail value.
Break even will very likely not happen as it requires sale AT retail value, in which case the buyer would be better off buying up the whole set and selling on the rulebook. Except they need the ruleboook too, so why sell?
Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?
Selling individual squads from starters at way above their share of the starter price, but still quite a bit below retail for the same squad in its multipart incarnation, has been a thing since forever and will continue to be. You will easily make quite a big profit if you buy the starter, keep the book and sell all the squads individually.
Selling at above their portion of the starter set is selling above retail. The monpose aren't the same as the multipart, which are vastly superior in terms of options, customisation and posing. Selling at retail would be selling at the % of the value of the box to which they are equivilent. Selling them above this price is selling above board. It also doesn't make sense for this edition because anyone who wants the models can just buy the starter set and selling on the rulebook, which is a necessity to everyone. Its just market sizing. The market for rulebooks is huge, the market for models comparatively small (especially as we can pretty much guarentee that Primaris multiparts will be the first release of the new edition as the new poster boys, which will have the actually useful options in the kit and not in the starter set versions).
GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.
But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.
I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.
Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.
To clarify, I'm talking a situation where you ONLY want the rulebook, and have no interest in the models or other contents. There are only 3 outcomes:
Profit
Break even
Loss
Profit will not happen as it requires sale of the contents at over retail value.
Break even will very likely not happen as it requires sale AT retail value, in which case the buyer would be better off buying up the whole set and selling on the rulebook. Except they need the ruleboook too, so why sell?
Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?
Selling individual squads from starters at way above their share of the starter price, but still quite a bit below retail for the same squad in its multipart incarnation, has been a thing since forever and will continue to be. You will easily make quite a big profit if you buy the starter, keep the book and sell all the squads individually.
Selling at above their portion of the starter set is selling above retail. The monpose aren't the same as the multipart, which are vastly superior in terms of options, customisation and posing. Selling at retail would be selling at the % of the value of the box to which they are equivilent. Selling them above this price is selling above board. It also doesn't make sense for this edition because anyone who wants the models can just buy the starter set and selling on the rulebook, which is a necessity to everyone. Its just market sizing. The market for rulebooks is huge, the market for models comparatively small (especially as we can pretty much guarentee that Primaris multiparts will be the first release of the new edition as the new poster boys, which will have the actually useful options in the kit and not in the starter set versions).
The more you post the less I'm convinced you understand what you are talking about, or are sincerely trolling.
You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.
No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.
Says who? Your assumption is that Primaris will replace Marines. My assumption is that, if they do remove the current Marines from the line, they will replace them with new Tacticals (probably in a larger scale) and not just remove them.
You know what both of those assumptions have in common? Neither are based on anything but feelings.
- Primaris are the new poster boys
- Lack of regular marines in the starter set, which has contained Marines since forever (2nd Ed right?)
- Fluff says regulars can be turned into Primaris as they please, and can get replacement Marines that are superior to the casualties, who would turn this down?
- Primaris equivilents of all current SM main units (Tacticals, Assault, Devs, Captains)
- Rescaled vehicles
GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.
But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.
I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.
Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.
To clarify, I'm talking a situation where you ONLY want the rulebook, and have no interest in the models or other contents. There are only 3 outcomes:
Profit
Break even
Loss
Profit will not happen as it requires sale of the contents at over retail value.
Break even will very likely not happen as it requires sale AT retail value, in which case the buyer would be better off buying up the whole set and selling on the rulebook. Except they need the ruleboook too, so why sell?
Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?
Selling individual squads from starters at way above their share of the starter price, but still quite a bit below retail for the same squad in its multipart incarnation, has been a thing since forever and will continue to be. You will easily make quite a big profit if you buy the starter, keep the book and sell all the squads individually.
Selling at above their portion of the starter set is selling above retail. The monpose aren't the same as the multipart, which are vastly superior in terms of options, customisation and posing. Selling at retail would be selling at the % of the value of the box to which they are equivilent. Selling them above this price is selling above board. It also doesn't make sense for this edition because anyone who wants the models can just buy the starter set and selling on the rulebook, which is a necessity to everyone. Its just market sizing. The market for rulebooks is huge, the market for models comparatively small (especially as we can pretty much guarentee that Primaris multiparts will be the first release of the new edition as the new poster boys, which will have the actually useful options in the kit and not in the starter set versions).
The more you post the less I'm convinced you understand what you are talking about, or are sincerely trolling.
I never troll, I have better things to entertain myself with.
There is no reason to buy these models. Superior ones will be released shortly after. You also CANNOT get the models for gaming and not get the rulebook. The sensible move is to buy a starter set, therefore getting you said models and the rulebook, which is needed. If you then want MORE models, you should wait a few weeks and see what is actually worth getting. You may quickly find that 5 plasma guns on your PriMarines is a terrible idea because they can take X option which comes in the multipart kits. That leaves a handful of people who just want more plasma or bolt toting guys for cheap. That group would be better off buying up another starter set for themselves, then selling on the rulebook at a discount to the ones who don't want the models at all, rather than buying up models from ebay. If done right, making use of online retailer discounts, you can actually be in profit. But I can't see a single reason to buy up hordes of snapfits when you don't even know what they can be armed with that's actually useful, and are vastly inferior models to the multi
Maxim Pastourel has been working at GW for a few years now and designed the new Death Guard models (as part of a team of 2). Here are more pics of his personal, converted army and a link to his blog. It was featured in Warhammer Visions in 2016
judgedoug wrote: Has it been confirmed that each unit's stats will be available as a free download like Age of Sigmar units?
Nope. In fact, I won't expect it - as they have already released the 5 books coming with the launch.
Only the booklet with 12 pages will be free
Hmm, the Grand Alliance books are roughly the same price and just contain the same Warscrolls that are available for free to download. You don't think 40k will follow the same methodology?
Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.
It's not thatbad in 7th(if anythgng tad overpriced) but that mortal wound is not nice. Less those in game the healthier.
Warhams-77 wrote: Painted miniatures can be seen in many (GW?) shops by now - by Lastlostboy on gw-fanworld.de forum
Why are the Plague marines not the same size as the standard space marine? Shouldn't the Primaris Space Marines tower over the Plague Marine too? Or is everything being upscaled?
Lol you must not have read the last 3 pages where this has been asked a dozen times Or read the FAQ that GW stated the Chaos Gods have been busy making their traitors more powerful.
Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.
Honestly, that is not great if you are shooting at infantry, since they are only one wound a piece.
Umm d1 hurts vs vehicles, nmt infantry that tends to have w1
Justyn wrote: Was there any mention of the Forgeworld index books being available in stores on release day. Or were they going to be available to order.
Justyn wrote: Was there any mention of the Forgeworld index books being available in stores on release day. Or were they going to be available to order.
All they said was that they go up for pre-order the same day as everything else.
nintura wrote: Wow that Leviathan... when your weakest weapon is a melta gun, that's just scary. can't wait to see what my Salamanders Leviathan looks like.
Should be interesting , however i wouldnt hold my breath on Sally Levs getting better. The Leviathan was immune to chapter tactics in 7th so i wouldnt be suprised if they dont get Salamander buffs this time around. Guess we will wait to see.
I run one in my Salamander army as well.. however it struggled to make up his points. Yea he was a beast in combat but getting him in combat with something juicy was always a struggle. Anyone running a Knight kept its distance.
To make the Leviathan effective he needed a Pod and sometimes it was good to add the IstvannIV trait to prevent scatter. This was around 400 pts. I always felt either 2 Ironclads were better for the points or a Imperial Knight was better with its 12" movement.
He however like you said never ever died in a single game i played him in, he also dominated whatever portion of the table he was in. He was more fun and fluffy then competitive.
Albino Squirrel wrote: At this point, most of these teaser articles are just making me less excited about the new edition. Especially the faction focus ones. There's so little about how the rules will fit the background or make for a fun game or make for interesting choices during a game. It's all "this unit wasn't very good before, now it's awesome!!!" Or "here's a rule that doesn't fit the background at all but will make this unit awesome!!!"
Yeah, based on some of the earlier rumors/info I was really hoping for something really new and differnt. Now it sounds just like every other version of 40K. Another big, expensive rulebook, another series of expensive codexes (probably accompanied by more codex creep). I guess I won't be getting back into 40K this edition, either.
judgedoug wrote: Has it been confirmed that each unit's stats will be available as a free download like Age of Sigmar units?
Nope. In fact, I won't expect it - as they have already released the 5 books coming with the launch.
Only the booklet with 12 pages will be free
Hmm, the Grand Alliance books are roughly the same price and just contain the same Warscrolls that are available for free to download. You don't think 40k will follow the same methodology?
At this point, we just don't know.
It might be that the basic Datasheets with the Power Levels will be available as free downloads and that the Index books will include all of that plus the points for Matched Play.
nintura wrote: Wow that Leviathan... when your weakest weapon is a melta gun, that's just scary. can't wait to see what my Salamanders Leviathan looks like.
Should be interesting , however i wouldnt hold my breath on Sally Levs getting better. The Leviathan was immune to chapter tactics in 7th so i wouldnt be suprised if they dont get Salamander buffs this time around. Guess we will wait to see.
I run one in my Salamander army as well.. however it struggled to make up his points. Yea he was a beast in combat but getting him in combat with something juicy was always a struggle. Anyone running a Knight kept its distance.
To make the Leviathan effective he needed a Pod and sometimes it was good to add the IstvannIV trait to prevent scatter. This was around 400 pts. I always felt either 2 Ironclads were better for the points or a Imperial Knight was better with its 12" movement.
He however like you said never ever died in a single game i played him in, he also dominated whatever portion of the table he was in. He was more fun and fluffy then competitive.
Well, I generally meant my Leviathan in my Salamanders army. I just referred to it as my Sally Lev. Mine has done nothing but wreck stuff. Blew up that AV 15 structure building with D-cannon thing. Killed a Baneblade. Knights, everything. But then I do use a pod, the Lucius Pattern pod. He's never been killed and that pod is worth every point.
hmm, I have the old metal Plague marines, having these new ones upscaled is awesome to me. It will make a good differentiation between Plagues and Marked CSM,. I dunno, maybe my OCD is simpler to manage.
Speaking as a former 11H (anti-tank gunner U.S. Army)
For those complaining about Vehicle Facing from a real world perspective front facing armor, side armor, etc. Just know, how you face a vehicle is completely irrelevant. Any anti-tank round that hits (TOW, AT4, Hellfire, SABOT) kills the crew and renders the vehicle destroyed. If you hit it, it goes away.
That’s top, bottom, left side, etc., your facing (more armor up front) MEANS NOTHING.
@DCannon4Life:
If you can answer sir, how are wounds allocated from different weapons (maximum damage, or minimum damage) i.e.
LasCannon and Lasgun hit and wound a 2 man squad Primaris Team (fails save), does damage go in favor of shooter:
• Lascannon does 3 damage, (killing 1 marine) then lasgun does 1 damage (wounding the other) = 1 dead & 1 wounded Marine
Or does it go in Favor of the defender:
• Lasgun does 1 damage, (Primaris is wounded) then Lascannon does 3 damage( finishes off wounded Primaris) = 1 dead Marine
Mchaagen, Victor VonTzeentch, thanks for the replies. I guess I will pre- order them. Maybe I'll actually get them by the end of June. Shipping from England takes 3-5 weeks usually. Why I was hoping they would be available in stores.
buddha wrote: In fairness, the current leviathan cost about as much as a knight and given we know both 8th profiles isn't as powerful.
My big question is how forgeworld units will be able to slot into the new command system. The independent detachments and formations of 7th made including FW units impossible which I hope has changed.
It has the <LEGION> keywords so it's simple enough to apply those and place them into a regular army without too much trouble. Just give it <THOUSAND SONS> and you're rocking it along side Rubrics as troops.
Speaking as a former 11H (anti-tank gunner U.S. Army)
For those complaining about Vehicle Facing from a real world perspective front facing armor, side armor, etc. Just know, how you face a vehicle is completely irrelevant. Any anti-tank round that hits (TOW, AT4, Hellfire, SABOT) kills the crew and renders the vehicle destroyed. If you hit it, it goes away.
That’s top, bottom, left side, etc., your facing (more armor up front) MEANS NOTHING.
@DCannon4Life:
If you can answer sir, how are wounds allocated from different weapons (maximum damage, or minimum damage) i.e.
LasCannon and Lasgun hit and wound a 2 man squad Primaris Team (fails save), does damage go in favor of shooter:
• Lascannon does 3 damage, (killing 1 marine) then lasgun does 1 damage (wounding the other) = 1 dead & 1 wounded Marine
Or does it go in Favor of the defender:
• Lasgun does 1 damage, (Primaris is wounded) then Lascannon does 3 damage( finishes off wounded Primaris) = 1 dead Marine
That's an interesting question indeed. This method of wound allocation is more in line with 5th Edition (defender allocates wounds as they please) but I wouldn't be surprised if in this one, given that they constantly emphasise how brutal, blood, and high-body count these games will be, I'd expect it to go the attackers way. The easiest way to rule this might be that all multi-damage weapons go first, inflicting as many wounds as possible until either there is no more Damage to inflict or the target is dead, and then single Damage weapons go second.
Nvs wrote: So with a Death Guard datasheet, can we expect to see Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights?
If you go every other day until the 17th, there are 12 more days for Faction Focus articles.
GSC, BA, DA, Sisters, Agents of the Imperium, Orks, Necrons, Ynnari, Harlequins, Chaos Knights, Grey Knights, Space Marines. Not necessarily in that order, but that's 12 articles leading right up to release.
What about Skitarii/.Ad Mech!! Those are really who I'm waiting for.
I used to play Imperial Guard but they always died too easily for me. Skitarii I think are the perfect balance of survivability/ hitting hard and cheap enough so you can take a good sized amount of them. And I love the fluff!
So, the Hell-forged Leviathan Dreadnought they just shared with us...
It gives some weapon choices,
I cant see why you wouldn't always replace your Claws with the Drills?
Unless they is going to be a point variation, but i would have assumed they would be on this data sheet, or am i missing something?
I have no problem with the scale creep. I still run my Chaos Warriors alongside my Bloodboun Bloodwarriors and my metal Bloodthirster looks like a Daemon Prince at the side of my new Bloodthirster.
I like the Plague Marines to be bigger as a elite unit should be. They aren't just normal Chaos Marines but... putrid. IMO, YMMV, etc...
nintura wrote: Wow that Leviathan... when your weakest weapon is a melta gun, that's just scary. can't wait to see what my Salamanders Leviathan looks like.
Should be interesting , however i wouldnt hold my breath on Sally Levs getting better. The Leviathan was immune to chapter tactics in 7th so i wouldnt be suprised if they dont get Salamander buffs this time around. Guess we will wait to see.
I run one in my Salamander army as well.. however it struggled to make up his points. Yea he was a beast in combat but getting him in combat with something juicy was always a struggle. Anyone running a Knight kept its distance.
To make the Leviathan effective he needed a Pod and sometimes it was good to add the IstvannIV trait to prevent scatter. This was around 400 pts. I always felt either 2 Ironclads were better for the points or a Imperial Knight was better with its 12" movement.
He however like you said never ever died in a single game i played him in, he also dominated whatever portion of the table he was in. He was more fun and fluffy then competitive.
Well, I generally meant my Leviathan in my Salamanders army. I just referred to it as my Sally Lev. Mine has done nothing but wreck stuff. Blew up that AV 15 structure building with D-cannon thing. Killed a Baneblade. Knights, everything. But then I do use a pod, the Lucius Pattern pod. He's never been killed and that pod is worth every point.
Yea the Lucius is required to run the Leviathan... never left home without it. I really never had games with players running big things other than IKs. no Biggies like BaneBlades. lol. He would get in combat with an IK and wreck face but generally guys knew that and got as far away from it as possible.
Dont get me wrong.. i loved the Leviathan alot i just wish he was a tad faster. however with no scatter Pods.. i think he gets alot better.
Nvs wrote: So with a Death Guard datasheet, can we expect to see Thousand Sons, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights?
If you go every other day until the 17th, there are 12 more days for Faction Focus articles.
GSC, BA, DA, Sisters, Agents of the Imperium, Orks, Necrons, Ynnari, Harlequins, Chaos Knights, Grey Knights, Space Marines. Not necessarily in that order, but that's 12 articles leading right up to release.
What about Skitarii/.Ad Mech!! Those are really who I'm waiting for.
I used to play Imperial Guard but they always died too easily for me. Skitarii I think are the perfect balance of survivability/ hitting hard and cheap enough so you can take a good sized amount of them. And I love the fluff!
There's actually 13. As Gak points out, you missed Skitarii and AdMech, and Sisters are already part of the Agents of the Imperium so won't get a unique faction focus. Its possible that DA, BA, SW, GK, DW and LotD will just get rolled into a super-big faction focus article just before release.
SirDalavar wrote: So, the Hell-forged Leviathan Dreadnought they just shared with us...
It gives some weapon choices,
I cant see why you wouldn't always replace your Claws with the Drills?
Unless they is going to be a point variation, but i would have assumed they would be on this data sheet, or am i missing something?
Points are not on data sheets. They will be collected elsewhere for yearly updates. It will certainly cost more to upgrade to drills.
Speaking as a former 11H (anti-tank gunner U.S. Army)
For those complaining about Vehicle Facing from a real world perspective front facing armor, side armor, etc. Just know, how you face a vehicle is completely irrelevant. Any anti-tank round that hits (TOW, AT4, Hellfire, SABOT) kills the crew and renders the vehicle destroyed. If you hit it, it goes away.
That’s top, bottom, left side, etc., your facing (more armor up front) MEANS NOTHING.
Bull. Why they would install expensive armour if it means nothing? Nevermind that abrams can't be sure of taking out another abrams.
Speaking as a former 11H (anti-tank gunner U.S. Army)
For those complaining about Vehicle Facing from a real world perspective front facing armor, side armor, etc. Just know, how you face a vehicle is completely irrelevant. Any anti-tank round that hits (TOW, AT4, Hellfire, SABOT) kills the crew and renders the vehicle destroyed. If you hit it, it goes away.
That’s top, bottom, left side, etc., your facing (more armor up front) MEANS NOTHING.
@DCannon4Life:
If you can answer sir, how are wounds allocated from different weapons (maximum damage, or minimum damage) i.e.
LasCannon and Lasgun hit and wound a 2 man squad Primaris Team (fails save), does damage go in favor of shooter:
• Lascannon does 3 damage, (killing 1 marine) then lasgun does 1 damage (wounding the other) = 1 dead & 1 wounded Marine
Or does it go in Favor of the defender:
• Lasgun does 1 damage, (Primaris is wounded) then Lascannon does 3 damage( finishes off wounded Primaris) = 1 dead Marine
That's an interesting question indeed. This method of wound allocation is more in line with 5th Edition (defender allocates wounds as they please) but I wouldn't be surprised if in this one, given that they constantly emphasise how brutal, blood, and high-body count these games will be, I'd expect it to go the attackers way. The easiest way to rule this might be that all multi-damage weapons go first, inflicting as many wounds as possible until either there is no more Damage to inflict or the target is dead, and then single Damage weapons go second.
This question is going to need to be answered as Primaris/Terminators will be common. And I play Greyknights. So, all of my melee attacks do 1d3 damage each. So, if I hit a primaris squad with 4 attacks from my force weapons and they fail four armor saves. I then do four 1d3 damage hits across the unit. Assuming you remove wounded models and the defender gets to allocated the wounds. Then 1,2,1,2 is far better then 1,1,2,2. I had already asked this one on the Facebook page a few articles back and got a lot of response, just none of them from Warhammer40000.
SirDalavar wrote: So, the Hell-forged Leviathan Dreadnought they just shared with us...
It gives some weapon choices,
I cant see why you wouldn't always replace your Claws with the Drills?
Unless they is going to be a point variation, but i would have assumed they would be on this data sheet, or am i missing something?
Points are not on data sheets. They will be collected elsewhere for yearly updates. It will certainly cost more to upgrade to drills.
Urgh, the Dread unit is just daft. Compare that to a 10 man unit of Rubric marines and think which one you'd rather take. The Grav-flux bombard might as well be called the "hope you didn't bring a big model" gun as it does 10 damage a turn, and the soulburner thing is just straight up averaging over 3 wounds to whatever you want every turn. It's not like you can charge it either; not unless you enjoy S16 AP-4 4 damage attacks anyway. I hope it'll be balanced overall, but man, that's a crazy alpha strike unit.
Deadshot wrote: you missed Skitarii and AdMech, and Sisters are already part of the Agents of the Imperium so won't get a unique faction focus. Its possible that DA, BA, SW, GK, DW and LotD will just get rolled into a super-big faction focus article just before release.
They said on Facebook that BA/DA/SW would get rolled into a single 'Space Marine faction focus', but implied Deathwatch would be separate. Skitarii and AdMech will be rolled into a single faction article.
Speaking as a former 11H (anti-tank gunner U.S. Army)
For those complaining about Vehicle Facing from a real world perspective front facing armor, side armor, etc. Just know, how you face a vehicle is completely irrelevant. Any anti-tank round that hits (TOW, AT4, Hellfire, SABOT) kills the crew and renders the vehicle destroyed. If you hit it, it goes away.
That’s top, bottom, left side, etc., your facing (more armor up front) MEANS NOTHING.
Bull. Why they would install expensive armour if it means nothing? Nevermind that abrams can't be sure of taking out another abrams.
Government deals with defense contractors. also for non dedicated anti tank rounds probably. also probably getting ot.
Brometheus wrote: Death to the False Emperor: Each roll of 6 to hit = make an additional attack in melee.
That's a really good rule. Not enough to worry about happening regularly but every now and then you'll get lucky and get a ton of dice to roll.
I just got off the rep to do preorders and want #s for my gaming store. Huge order.. Will total over 3k lol. Brutal.
That is brutal! Just be assured it's going to sell very well though. Still, pretty brutal, but not as brutal as...
Khorne Berserkers pile in twice and fight twice each Fight Phase.
Ho-ly, gak. Combined with DttFE, that's going to pulverise most units. The faction focus wasn't kidding when he said they might be the best CC unit in the game.
To be fair, A TOW missile is a 140mm wire guided rocket that is designed to 20 meters before it's target go into the air and slam into the top of a vehicle. Not many vehicles in the world are designed to survive that type of firepower. (prior 11M)
Deadshot wrote: you missed Skitarii and AdMech, and Sisters are already part of the Agents of the Imperium so won't get a unique faction focus. Its possible that DA, BA, SW, GK, DW and LotD will just get rolled into a super-big faction focus article just before release.
They said on Facebook that BA/DA/SW would get rolled into a single 'Space Marine faction focus', but implied Deathwatch would be separate. Skitarii and AdMech will be rolled into a single faction article.
DW have many more individual rules than the others and have a unique, formation based system in 7th, so understandable. Still, surprised that Skitarii and AdMech are getting one together seeing as they were previously seperate and diliberately seperate.
For those complaining about Vehicle Facing from a real world perspective front facing armor, side armor, etc. Just know, how you face a vehicle is completely irrelevant. Any anti-tank round that hits (TOW, AT4, Hellfire, SABOT) kills the crew and renders the vehicle destroyed. If you hit it, it goes away.
That sir is 100 percent not true. You may want to do some research. There have been quite a few cases of Abrams surviving Sabot rounds from T-72s to the front and continuing the mission. In a couple cases they took repeated hits.
That being said I believe for 40k, the system they have described for 8th will be fine.
Bull that I was an Anti-Tank soldier?, Bull that I have live fired actual rounds at actual Tanks?, Bull that Armor means NOTHING when dealing with DEDICATED Anti-Tank rounds?
The reactive armor that your predicating your Abrams statement on primarily deals with HEAT rounds and not SABOT rounds. HEAT is primarily for Bunkers/buildings /light vehicles, were as SABOT is specifically designed for AT.
We get that you don’t like it but your real world argument in the majority of situations is not based on fact. (and for the record I kinda liked Armor facing values, but a true application is unsubstantiated)
My one hope is that IG (or AM) can have a dedicated HtoH unit to combat what in my opinion is going to be a brutal melee based edition.
That sir is 100 percent not true. You may want to do some research. There have been quite a few cases of Abrams surviving Sabot rounds from T-72s to the front and continuing the mission. In a couple cases they took repeated hits.
That being said I believe for 40k, the system they have described for 8th will be fine.
They rolled a 1 on armor pen. (Oblique angles matter)
Nothing in 40k is representative of the way the TOW fires. Though, you would think in a sci-fi universe weapons that can be fired at a unit that then track to the top or side of a unit would be common.
So, this change effectively does that in that it always hits the weakest point on the vehicle.
Speaking as a former 11H (anti-tank gunner U.S. Army)
For those complaining about Vehicle Facing from a real world perspective front facing armor, side armor, etc. Just know, how you face a vehicle is completely irrelevant. Any anti-tank round that hits (TOW, AT4, Hellfire, SABOT) kills the crew and renders the vehicle destroyed. If you hit it, it goes away.
That’s top, bottom, left side, etc., your facing (more armor up front) MEANS NOTHING.
@DCannon4Life:
If you can answer sir, how are wounds allocated from different weapons (maximum damage, or minimum damage) i.e.
LasCannon and Lasgun hit and wound a 2 man squad Primaris Team (fails save), does damage go in favor of shooter:
• Lascannon does 3 damage, (killing 1 marine) then lasgun does 1 damage (wounding the other) = 1 dead & 1 wounded Marine
Or does it go in Favor of the defender:
• Lasgun does 1 damage, (Primaris is wounded) then Lascannon does 3 damage( finishes off wounded Primaris) = 1 dead Marine
Real tanks don't have ridiculous variation. A Leman Russ is as armored as the side of a titan at the front but can be punched to death from the rear.
Neither did they in an Edition, the Rear Armour 10 represented vulnerable parts, such as vision and firing slits and popping grenades into the hatch on the turret. The only time they ACTUALLY punched a tank to death is the Power Fist, which is a gigantic fist covered in a forcefield that can literally punch through the tank.
Khorne Berserkers pile in twice and fight twice each Fight Phase.
I think they may have decided the way to balance everything was to make everything overpowered.
Currently I'm still iffy on 8th because everything has super AWESOME!!!! rules. Emphasis by GW.
I feel like they took things that were clearly overpowered and brought them down, then took everything else and brought it up. They've set a new level for the playing field, and it is covered in blood.
Deadshot wrote: you missed Skitarii and AdMech, and Sisters are already part of the Agents of the Imperium so won't get a unique faction focus. Its possible that DA, BA, SW, GK, DW and LotD will just get rolled into a super-big faction focus article just before release.
They said on Facebook that BA/DA/SW would get rolled into a single 'Space Marine faction focus', but implied Deathwatch would be separate. Skitarii and AdMech will be rolled into a single faction article.
DW have many more individual rules than the others and have a unique, formation based system in 7th, so understandable. Still, surprised that Skitarii and AdMech are getting one together seeing as they were previously seperate and diliberately seperate.
Haha what? Splitting the admech into skitarii and cult felt like a super forced way to sell more books when they should obviously have been in the same codex.
Speaking as a former 11H (anti-tank gunner U.S. Army)
For those complaining about Vehicle Facing from a real world perspective front facing armor, side armor, etc. Just know, how you face a vehicle is completely irrelevant. Any anti-tank round that hits (TOW, AT4, Hellfire, SABOT) kills the crew and renders the vehicle destroyed. If you hit it, it goes away.
That’s top, bottom, left side, etc., your facing (more armor up front) MEANS NOTHING.
Bull. Why they would install expensive armour if it means nothing? Nevermind that abrams can't be sure of taking out another abrams.
Government deals with defense contractors. also for non dedicated anti tank rounds probably. also probably getting ot.
So abrams doesn't bother carrying dedicated at ammo?
Youn wrote: To be fair, A TOW missile is a 140mm wire guided rocket that is designed to 20 meters before it's target go into the air and slam into the top of a vehicle. Not many vehicles in the world are designed to survive that type of firepower. (prior 11M)
And see? Top. Not front. Why is that since hitting top is tad harder...
Warhams-77 wrote: SM Lieutenants had rules and models throughout 1st Edition and functioned basically as 1st officiers to the Commander They were independent characters with minor hero stats (champions, minor heroes and major heroes stat categories were used for most 40k factions). I am happy they are going to bring them back too.
Another great idea from the Rogue Trader era resurrected.
I will admit that the Lieutenant model with the bolt rifle is a little plain looking, but it's still a nice model for sure. Perhaps I can add some bling to it. It's great that they're releasing enough to make an all primaris army. I can't wait to see potential future tanks.
Khorne Berserkers pile in twice and fight twice each Fight Phase.
I think they may have decided the way to balance everything was to make everything overpowered.
Currently I'm still iffy on 8th because everything has super AWESOME!!!! rules. Emphasis by GW.
I think you are right. Making everything overpowered seems to have been a deliberate design decision, since they keep bragging about how quickly we will be removing models from the table, as if that's a great thing.
I'm sure there will still be terrible imbalance with some units never being taken because they just aren't as good as others.,
Khorne Berserkers pile in twice and fight twice each Fight Phase.
I think they may have decided the way to balance everything was to make everything overpowered.
Currently I'm still iffy on 8th because everything has super AWESOME!!!! rules. Emphasis by GW.
I think you are right. Making everything overpowered seems to have been a deliberate design decision, since they keep bragging about how quickly we will be removing models from the table, as if that's a great thing.
I'm sure there will still be terrible imbalance with some units never being taken because they just aren't as good as others.,
There is always gonna be balance problems, and in the most competitive enviroments the only most powerfull things are gonna be spammed. The difference is if the powerlevel of the most OP thing is 5% more powerfull that the second, and 10% more powerfull than the least powerfull one, or if they are just 300% more powerfull.
Balance is not an all or nothing thing.
If I can field the army I like, even if I'm choosing some things that aren't the most powerfull ones, I prefer to be at the least disadvantage posible.
In the "Battles are gonna end with everyone killed"; I have no problems. TO me those are the most funny battles. I don't bring 80 models to the table to end the battle with 60 models.
I think you are right. Making everything overpowered seems to have been a deliberate design decision, since they keep bragging about how quickly we will be removing models from the table, as if that's a great thing.
I'm sure there will still be terrible imbalance with some units never being taken because they just aren't as good as others.,
Which is why I'm excited about them relaunching all the unit rules on datasheets. Now they can update/tweak units up and down as needed rather than waiting for the 4-5 year codex cycle some books were suffering from.
Speaking as a former 11H (anti-tank gunner U.S. Army)
For those complaining about Vehicle Facing from a real world perspective front facing armor, side armor, etc. Just know, how you face a vehicle is completely irrelevant. Any anti-tank round that hits (TOW, AT4, Hellfire, SABOT) kills the crew and renders the vehicle destroyed. If you hit it, it goes away.
That’s top, bottom, left side, etc., your facing (more armor up front) MEANS NOTHING.
Bull. Why they would install expensive armour if it means nothing? Nevermind that abrams can't be sure of taking out another abrams.
Government deals with defense contractors. also for non dedicated anti tank rounds probably. also probably getting ot.
So abrams doesn't bother carrying dedicated at ammo?
The last time we carried dediated AT ammo, it ended up going through the enemy tanks and hitting villages. We no longer use DU rounds.
I think you are right. Making everything overpowered seems to have been a deliberate design decision, since they keep bragging about how quickly we will be removing models from the table, as if that's a great thing.
I'm sure there will still be terrible imbalance with some units never being taken because they just aren't as good as others.,
I was at first pretty pumped about this edition. Now I'm thinking I'll probably be disappointed if I play. In a game where I spend a ton of time converting and painting models, I don't want to remove half of them turn one. And everything is super mega killy now. Well except basic marines, they suck because we need to sell even better plus one marines even to people who already own 300 marines.
I was at first pretty pumped about this edition. Now I'm thinking I'll probably be disappointed if I play. In a game where I spend a ton of time converting and painting models, I don't want to remove half of them turn one. And everything is super mega killy now. Well except basic marines, they suck because we need to sell even better plus one marines even to people who already own 300 marines.
The last thing I do is admire models while i'm playing. I get that out of the way when they're on their display boards and I can appreciate them fully.
Exaggerating about the state of the game gets us nowhere as well.
[REDACTED] wrote:
Any chance the FW books or datasheets will be available digitally?
WARHAMMER 40,000 wrote:
We are looking to make that happen, but no word right now.
[REDACTED] wrote:
Is there any chance of a AOS type warscrolls being available for free? Having recently bought IA:V2 that isn't a cheap book to replace for only 3 models that I own. It really hurts for those of us across the pond.
FORGE WORLD wrote:
Hey [redacted] - as you say, we are looking into whether we can make digital versions of this.More news when we get it.
I was at first pretty pumped about this edition. Now I'm thinking I'll probably be disappointed if I play. In a game where I spend a ton of time converting and painting models, I don't want to remove half of them turn one. And everything is super mega killy now. Well except basic marines, they suck because we need to sell even better plus one marines even to people who already own 300 marines.
The last thing I do is admire models while i'm playing. I get that out of the way when they're on their display boards and I can appreciate them fully.
Exaggerating about the state of the game gets us nowhere as well.
The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.
*Looks at my Rogue Trader/2E armies*
Yeah...you know I'm pretty sure you can still play with them...
That's an apples to oranges comparison. Your RT are *EXACTLY* the same as 2nd edition monopose, 2nd-7th edition metals and finecasts, and 3rd-7th edition plastics in the fluff and the rules. The fact that visually they're gangly little guys with funny looking weapons has no bearing on the tabletop or the progression of the 40k story. Adeptus Restartes are simply better in rules and fluff and will receive likely tons more and everntually exclusive support from this point on both in terms of digital and physical after existing marines get their initial rules. If you don't believe me, ask any Bretonnian or Empire player how they're loving the tons of post initial launch rules and models they've gotten alongside the new AOSified factions under the Order banner.
I'm curious to see if going forward the major tournies will allow Adeptus Secondus to sub in for Asdeptus Restartes (if appropriately based). It's pretty much a given that GW won't in any of their official events.
I think you are right. Making everything overpowered seems to have been a deliberate design decision, since they keep bragging about how quickly we will be removing models from the table, as if that's a great thing.
I'm sure there will still be terrible imbalance with some units never being taken because they just aren't as good as others.,
I was at first pretty pumped about this edition. Now I'm thinking I'll probably be disappointed if I play. In a game where I spend a ton of time converting and painting models, I don't want to remove half of them turn one. And everything is super mega killy now. Well except basic marines, they suck because we need to sell even better plus one marines even to people who already own 300 marines.
Just because something is pretty and stuff doesn't mean it shouldn't die. Things moving quickly is much more exciting, I'll be happy for games that come down to a few models rather than an unkillable deathstar or piddly slapping matches because the old AP and Morale systems were garbage.
Quicker games = more games. Quicker games = more time to look at display boards at events.
No! As peeps on this forum has said, you cannot as soon as Primaris Marines are released! GW will ban you! They will come round your house and smash them! And gak on your bed while they're there!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! *Vader pose*
Please stop quoting the ridiculous exaggerations in that post in your attempt to disprove an argument never made. No one here has suggested anything of the sort. Of course you'll be able to play with your old marines (now Adeptus Secundus) with some basic rules pushed out at the beginning with little to no support going forward since their focus will be on Adeptus Restartes from now on. If GW came out with a long dormant ancient race of pointy eared Aedarii Ultimatus which were the real culmination of the Old Ones work which were even more psychic and advanced and they just happened to be in cryosleep in even bigger and more wraithbonier craftworlds, Eldar players wouldn't be happy even if they got some rules to keep playing with their 1st edition metals. If Mad Dok RetKOn slapped together some fofum fungus to make a better variant of Orrukz that start out as big and powerful as nobz and are the true favored of Mork and Gork who quickly took power in the galaxies' Waaghs and formerly okr tribes (but you can still use your unevolved orks with some get by rules!), ork players would be unhappy. It's not just the scale change (like you're comparing it too) but the second class citizen nature of the old models both in the rules and the fluff combined with the scale change that has folks unhappy. Only the most head in the ground players deny what the end goal of this is unlike with the myriad of previous simple model rollouts.
Requizen wrote: Just because something is pretty and stuff doesn't mean it shouldn't die. Things moving quickly is much more exciting, I'll be happy for games that come down to a few models rather than an unkillable deathstar or piddly slapping matches because the old AP and Morale systems were garbage.
Quicker games = more games. Quicker games = more time to look at display boards at events.
Exalted.
The problem I had before was that everything was everything or nothing. Either models were deleting enemy units in one go or they were just doing sweet f.a to them. If the new edition is anything like AoS, everything will be much more gradual. And with a restructured points system I can have more models anyway. Case in point, my Bloodreavers do die in droves, but I bring 40+ of them and they last until the end. There's no reason IG infantry couldn't be the same.
nintura wrote: Scroll up a bit and you'll see answers. But in short, GW stated that the Chaos Gods are not going to sit idly by and watch new marines come out. They've been busy too, giving power, creating new things. Nurgle especially likes to create new stuff, it's part of his portfolio.
I don't care what the fluff reasons are. You can use the fluff to justify anything. These are the blatant first steps to utterly replace several entire model lines, rendering armies across the world essentially obsolete.
It just seems so cynical, and is another example of GW burning their legacy Warhammer Fantasy style to, what, sell some new miniatures?
Many often comment that GW occasionally shoot themselves in the foot. This seems like like GW sawing their own arms off because they think it'll make them more aerodynamic!
I don't agree. For one due to seeing several different examples it looks like the new DG vary in height instead of being a uniform size (which works for me since the actual Marines should vary in height as well).
And two, a slow replacement of Marines (assuming it to be happening at all) is better than a massive dump of new models and taking the old stuff away.
Frankly at this point, what can they give Marines other than an upscaled version that are the correct size? I can,t think of anything from the fluff or HH they could really squeeze in, so bringing in a truescale model line replacement is honestly the best choice going forward. Making them a part of the lore and rules lets people have a reason to get invested in them and to start collecting them. Plus we might get a neat civil war campaign story out of this where some chapters refuse to use them and but heads with Guilliman over it.
strongly disagree. Ii would have been a lot better to have pretty much all the numarines at once, instead of having two nearly identical armies (one being slighty larger than the other)
warboss wrote: That's an apples to oranges comparison. Your RT are *EXACTLY* the same as 2nd edition monopose, 2nd-7th edition metals and finecasts, and 3rd-7th edition plastics in the fluff and the rules.
Nope, apples-to-apples. Rogue Trader stuff is shorter and not just gangly. Of course you'd know that if you had any Oldhammer stuff. Current Eldar are a bit short next to IG (read: normal humans) and are eye-to-eye with RT guardians, except all the current plastics are Gangnam Style while the old metals are standing tall. Marines are all over the board. Don't put an original beakie next to you Deathwatch, it might destroy your whole argument. Heck, even the Black Reach/Vedros stuff is almost a head taller than RT Marines.
Warhams-77 wrote: SM Lieutenants had rules and models throughout 1st Edition and functioned basically as 1st officiers to the Commander They were independent characters with minor hero stats (champions, minor heroes and major heroes stat categories were used for most 40k factions). I am happy they are going to bring them back too.
Another great idea from the Rogue Trader era resurrected.
I will admit that the Lieutenant model with the bolt rifle is a little plain looking, but it's still a nice model for sure. Perhaps I can add some bling to it. It's great that they're releasing enough to make an all primaris army. I can't wait to see potential future tanks.
3rd ed (both the initial get by lists in the rulebook and the codex books) had three tiers of space marine commanders down to iirc either the same as a vet sergeant, a two wound variant equal roughly to chaplains, and then the full 3 wound variant. I too lamented their demise as I did the tau subcommander.
Requizen wrote: Just because something is pretty and stuff doesn't mean it shouldn't die. Things moving quickly is much more exciting, I'll be happy for games that come down to a few models rather than an unkillable deathstar or piddly slapping matches because the old AP and Morale systems were garbage.
Quicker games = more games. Quicker games = more time to look at display boards at events.
Exalted.
The problem I had before was that everything was everything or nothing. Either models were deleting enemy units in one go or they were just doing sweet f.a to them. If the new edition is anything like AoS, everything will be much more gradual. And with a restructured points system I can have more models anyway. Case in point, my Bloodreavers do die in droves, but I bring 40+ of them and they last until the end. There's no reason IG infantry couldn't be the same.
Yeah dunno it what edition models were staying on the table any longer than in 8th (so far) but 7th was always ether you remove entire units of normal stuff, or you overbuffed the crap out of one cheese unit and it ran around for days deleting your opponents units.
im fine with things dying. so long as they are dying from both sides. ( i guess 5th..6th? had parking lots of undying vehicles)
warboss wrote: That's an apples to oranges comparison. Your RT are *EXACTLY* the same as 2nd edition monopose, 2nd-7th edition metals and finecasts, and 3rd-7th edition plastics in the fluff and the rules.
Nope, apples-to-apples. Rogue Trader stuff is shorter and not just gangly. Of course you'd know that if you had any Oldhammer stuff. Current Eldar are a bit short next to IG (read: normal humans) and are eye-to-eye with RT guardians, except all the current plastics are Gangnam Style while the old metals are standing tall. Marines are all over the board. Don't put an original beakie next to you Deathwatch, it might destroy your whole argument. Heck, even the Black Reach/Vedros stuff is almost a head taller than RT Marines.
Everything happening now has happened before.
You missed the key part in your zeal to disprove a point never made. I'll repeat it in bigger font all caps for you so you won't miss it again. They're the same IN THE FLUFF AND THE RULES with previous model rollouts. Please endeavor to read the whole sentence before you attempt to refute it next time.
They're fine with 8th it's just one doesn't want to buy anything and one wants to wait for a while.
you dont really need to... the rules should be free and at best you need to bone out 25$ for an index or 2 if thats what you are into and then you are golden. (i mean unless you are literally homeless and cant afford a book)
Requizen wrote: Just because something is pretty and stuff doesn't mean it shouldn't die. Things moving quickly is much more exciting, I'll be happy for games that come down to a few models rather than an unkillable deathstar or piddly slapping matches because the old AP and Morale systems were garbage.
Quicker games = more games. Quicker games = more time to look at display boards at events.
Exalted.
The problem I had before was that everything was everything or nothing. Either models were deleting enemy units in one go or they were just doing sweet f.a to them. If the new edition is anything like AoS, everything will be much more gradual. And with a restructured points system I can have more models anyway. Case in point, my Bloodreavers do die in droves, but I bring 40+ of them and they last until the end. There's no reason IG infantry couldn't be the same.
True that.
And how AoS deals with victory conditions is also better than 7th Ed 40k, for the simple fact that wiping out the oppoent isn't always an auto-win.
Yes, it's still possible to win by tabling someone, but without it being an automatic thing you're less incentivised to make armies where that's the sole aim.
That breeds diversity of list, which brings diversity of challenge, which helps to make metagaming far harder to follow for easy wins.
Tomorrow we're promised info on 40k's take. I really hope they've gone for something similar.
The problem I had before was that everything was everything or nothing. Either models were deleting enemy units in one go or they were just doing sweet f.a to them. If the new edition is anything like AoS, everything will be much more gradual. And with a restructured points system I can have more models anyway. Case in point, my Bloodreavers do die in droves, but I bring 40+ of them and they last until the end. There's no reason IG infantry couldn't be the same.
Well either way I plan to give it a try. Just my enthusiasm has dropped significantly. I didn't play much of 7th edition mostly because I saw exactly the same thing.
The problem with vehicle facing is its a good rule, but they made other rules that make it obsolete with no regards to the facing rule whatsoever.
Drop pods filled with melta/grav. Armor values mean practically nothing when you can place your models wherever you like on the board just inches away with guns that do quad damage to vehicles. Do you think GW gave a gak? Heck the actively encouraged people not to buy vehicles by making every single giant robot after the gorkanaut (poor orks) a monstrous creature. That was their 'fix' to vehicles sucking: buy more models.
I'm optimistic about 8th cutting back on the deepstrike/outflank nonsense. We'll have to see how survivable things really are though.
Just because something is pretty and stuff doesn't mean it shouldn't die.
I don't think anyone said they shouldn't. I think they just want their army to last longer in the game than it takes to unpack them and set them up.
Things moving quickly is much more exciting,
For you. I certainly don't want games that drag on forever (been their/done that with other systems), but I don't want a game that is over in 15 minutes, either.
Daedalus81 wrote: The last thing I do is admire models while i'm playing. I get that out of the way when they're on their display boards and I can appreciate them fully.
That's fine at a tournament where people set up their armies on display boards for judging. I've never seen anyone do that for a pick up game at the FLGS. Most times, the only opportunity I get to admire my opponent's army is during the game.
You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.
No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.
exactly, those who thinks that the two range of almost exactly similar marines will be supported in the future are deluding themselves
I'm quite pleased that Orks, Tau and Tyranids are all in the same book. Orks were my first 40K army (only a small force though, 6 squads of boyz (2 Choppaz, 1 shootaz, 1 'Ard Boyz, 1 Stormboyz, 1 Kommandos) warbuggy and wartrak, Ghaz and a couple of Killa Kans (with Skorchas as back in 4th they had WS4 and BS2), then Tau and I've wanted to build a Tyranid army for a while but held off partly due to money but also due to the fact that the build I'd want to run wasn't really competitive against, well, anything
You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.
No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.
exactly, those who thinks that the two range of almost exactly similar marines will be supported in the future are deluding themselves
It's obviously ridiculous.
If that were the case they'd have done it ages ago with different ranges for Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights and Deathwatch rather than stick with just the standard Marine range.
Or they would have fleshed out the line into different Armour Marks first... maybe they would have developed a game based around 18 different types of marines which would have all been supported by Forgeworld.
Obviously they won't support Primaris Marines as well! Laughable!
You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.
No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.
exactly, those who thinks that the two range of almost exactly similar marines will be supported in the future are deluding themselves
It's obviously ridiculous.
If that were the case they'd have done it ages ago with different ranges for Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights and Deathwatch rather than stick with just the standard Marine range.
you do realise that there is a lot more difference between these marines and regular marines than between the numarines and the regurlar ones? They are pretty much exactly the same models but scaled up. Anyway, Hasting already said that the old marines won't get much if any support from now on.
I know for some it is hard to admit since it goes against their ''GW can do no wrong'' narrative (and seeing this as a wrong is kind of a stretch, even if I don't like the numarines), but it is obvious that the numarines are a replacement for the old ones
I really like the mechanic of having berserkers fight twice rather than simply giving them a ridiculous number of attacks. I'm just guessing, but I think that means on the charge they'd go once first and then once as a normal activation, and in other rounds be activated twice in HtH. That gives people some chance to swing back, and also adds the coolness of two pile ins to move your Khorne stuff closer to the enemy whist in HtH. Very cool.
It'll be interestign to see how many attacks they have in each of those rounds. They're losing the pistol shot, and may or may not get +1 A on the charge, and currently have just the one base attack. Personally, I'd think they'd have at least 2 base attacks, otherwise they're not really wrecking that much shop, even going twice.
Just for giggles, a unit of 12 with 2A each rolls 24 dice, hits 16 times, gets four more attacks from Dttfe, hits in 2,6 of those, for 18.66 hits. That's keen, then double it and take a little of the top for possible casualties and they're hitting something like 25 times a round. Depending on what their axes do that does sound pretty intense. Way less so if they stay a base 1A though. Interesting.
That undermines your point even more. They have maintained multiple lines of virtually identical marines for ages.
The normal marines aren't going anywhere for many years.
Will they get new releases? I doubt it, apart from Scouts They have a huge range of the best GW can do. That doesn't mean they are going to be being withdrawn
Edit : it's nothing to do with GW doing no wrong, it's people making up nonsense and declaring it as fact, after which we get the dramatic whinges about how terrible it is GW are doing the totally made up thing. It's tiresome.
Vorian wrote: That undermines your point even more. They have maintained multiple lines of virtually identical marines for ages.
The normal marines aren't going anywhere for many years.
Will they get new releases? I doubt it, apart from Scouts They have a huge range of the best GW can do. That doesn't mean they are going to be being withdrawn
what undermines my point, that the other flavor of marines are a lot more different to regular marines than the numarines are??? If so, you're clearly not using the word correctly
I'm guessing, and I have no more info, that berserkers may simply "be activated" twice in one Fight Phase, not that they fight twice in a row once you activate them.
Vorian wrote: That undermines your point even more. They have maintained multiple lines of virtually identical marines for ages.
The normal marines aren't going anywhere for many years.
Will they get new releases? I doubt it, apart from Scouts They have a huge range of the best GW can do. That doesn't mean they are going to be being withdrawn
Welp it was pointed out that marines do get updated spures every like 6-7 years and oh my god the time flys the last set was about 4-5 years ago. im expecting a revamp after about a year or 2. can only hope they update the metal bawkses of 40k. (right new tacticals was 2012??)
Vorian wrote: That undermines your point even more. They have maintained multiple lines of virtually identical marines for ages.
The normal marines aren't going anywhere for many years.
Will they get new releases? I doubt it, apart from Scouts They have a huge range of the best GW can do. That doesn't mean they are going to be being withdrawn
what undermines my point, that the other flavor of marines are a lot more different to regular marines than the numarines are??? If so, you're clearly not using the word correctly
Somehow I read it that you meant the virtually identical different lines of same sized marines were more similar than the virtually identical different line of bigger marines.
Whichever you meant (and it doesn't matter), I'm sure one more line of virtually identical marines isn't going to break the camels back and stop them supporting all the many different virtually identical lines of marines
Brometheus wrote: I'm guessing, and I have no more info, that berserkers may simply "be activated" twice in one Fight Phase, not that they fight twice in a row once you activate them.
Yeah again, it's basically a conspiracy theory at this point that space marines might be replaced.
Would they be bringing out the recent thousand sons and deathwatch ranges if they intended to replace things? Would they be doing heresy power armour box sets? (And again, I'll bet my left leg, and I'm left handed so that's my good leg, that there'll be a third heresy board game this year) Heck, they even pretty damn recently updated the Tacticals, Devastators and Assault Marines.
And further, primaris marines have demonstrated that they fill different roles within an army. If the multipart primaris kit comes out and has the weapon options of a tactical squad, then you can even -begin- to worry that it's a phased replacement.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I'm calling it right now, but any army with access to massed, cheap flamers for Overwatch will do very well in this assault/horde heavy edition.
na, the best of the best are gonna people armies that can screen with cheap as crap models in bulk.
Grots, cultists, kroot, gaunts; This is their edition.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I'm calling it right now, but any army with access to massed, cheap flamers for Overwatch will do very well in this assault/horde heavy edition.
You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.
No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.
exactly, those who thinks that the two range of almost exactly similar marines will be supported in the future are deluding themselves
It's obviously ridiculous.
If that were the case they'd have done it ages ago with different ranges for Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Grey Knights and Deathwatch rather than stick with just the standard Marine range.
Make no mistake, the Space Marines line is eventually getting rebooted. You'd have to be crazy to think otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept the line around for a few years, but you aren't going to see any more mark VIII marines released. It would be nice if we got some fluff where some chapters, or a new chapter, decided not to trust the Primaris Marines and they kept the Adeptus Secondus around. Doubtful that will happen tho.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: So does anyone think it'll be just the starter set and books that go on pre-order, or will they have other Death Guard/Primaris kits too?
Probably just the starter, index books and the dice/tokens on the 3rd. I'd be surprised if we don't see the start of the Primaris and Death guard releases soon after though.
One thing I really like is how clear and strongly worded these rules are:
No wondering if two butcher cannons will stack and break units like crazy.
No stacking extra healing keeping it from being unstoppable and clearly defined times when things occur and when they do not.
Also - it seems overwatch happens in the fight phase now, which means Wytches get their invuln (or they screwed up the wording ).
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I'm calling it right now, but any army with access to massed, cheap flamers for Overwatch will do very well in this assault/horde heavy edition.
na, the best of the best are gonna people armies that can screen with cheap as crap models in bulk.
Grots, cultists, kroot, gaunts; This is their edition.
Ram your tanks into them before they ram theirs into you. "The enemy is getting too close! Sacrifice the transports!"
Nevermind, with it occurring in fight phase you will always be within range of a flamer. Your going to have to use something to soak up that flamer shots before you engage with troops you are worried cannot take that type of fire.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I'm calling it right now, but any army with access to massed, cheap flamers for Overwatch will do very well in this assault/horde heavy edition.
It really depends on how overwatch is written. For example:
My Assault marines are 9" away from your troops and I charge you.
You have 5 flamers and 5 boltguns.
If overwatch is written as you may fire at a unit when they charge you. Then you can fire the boltguns but not the flamers. Because the flamers are out of range.
If overwatch is written as you may fire at a unit that charges you at any point during their movement. Then all the flamers and boltguns are going to be powerful.
If overwatch is in the fight phase, which I now believe it is, then ranges won't matter.
Daedalus81 wrote: One thing I really like is how clear and strongly worded these rules are:
No wondering if two butcher cannons will stack and break units like crazy.
No stacking extra healing keeping it from being unstoppable and clearly defined times when things occur and when they do not.
Also - it seems overwatch happens in the fight phase now, which means Wytches get their invuln (or they screwed up the wording ).
Quote wording shows it doesn't stack I'd say. Use of 'any' rather than 'each'
Daedalus81 wrote: One thing I really like is how clear and strongly worded these rules are:
No wondering if two butcher cannons will stack and break units like crazy.
No stacking extra healing keeping it from being unstoppable and clearly defined times when things occur and when they do not.
Also - it seems overwatch happens in the fight phase now, which means Wytches get their invuln (or they screwed up the wording ).
Quote wording shows it doesn't stack I'd say. Use of 'any' rather than 'each'
Might be the influence of tournament style testers - they know people try to twist and evade the meaning of rules unless its spelled out three or four times.
There are a lot of units that move incredibly far. Especially the new Tyranid rules. Simply moving within 1" during the move phase overrides overwatch so some armies will have significant advantages over others.
Nvs wrote: There are a lot of units that move incredibly far. Especially the new Tyranid rules. Simply moving within 1" during the move phase overrides overwatch so some armies will have significant advantages over others.
I will make a solid bet that you cannot move within 1" of any enemy model unless you charge.
Nvs wrote: There are a lot of units that move incredibly far. Especially the new Tyranid rules. Simply moving within 1" during the move phase overrides overwatch so some armies will have significant advantages over others.
I will make a solid bet that you cannot move within 1" of any enemy model unless you charge.
You don't need to bet. We've seen the Movement rules page and that is correct.
pizzaguardian wrote: How would multiple overwatch work if it is done in fight phase. You just overwatch at every charger?
Actually, if Overwatch is in the fight phase. Then you overwatch a unit that piles in. You can keep overwatching units until you are engaged.
So, example
5 orcs charge a squad of marines
5 gretchin charge the same squad of marines
1 Nob also charges the same squad of marines
Orc player activates the 5 gretchin first and Overwatch occurs.
The marines Overwatch massacres the gretchin completely.
Orc player activates the 5 Orcs next and Overwatch occurs because the Marines are not engaged.
Marine's overwatch only kills 2 orcs.
3 Orcs pile into combat and swing.
Orc player now activates Nob and piles in. Because the Marines are engaged, the marines don't get to fire overwatch.
Daedalus81 wrote: Does anyone know the stats for the soulburner ribaudkin from 7th? I'm curious to know what is used to do before it became a mortal wound gun.
No such thing, it's a dialled up soulburner petard.
I'll look that up for you, but it's a smaller gun.
Daedalus81 wrote: One thing I really like is how clear and strongly worded these rules are:
No wondering if two butcher cannons will stack and break units like crazy.
No stacking extra healing keeping it from being unstoppable and clearly defined times when things occur and when they do not.
Also - it seems overwatch happens in the fight phase now, which means Wytches get their invuln (or they screwed up the wording ).
Where was that said (overwatch during fight phase)?
Daedalus81 wrote: Does anyone know the stats for the soulburner ribaudkin from 7th? I'm curious to know what is used to do before it became a mortal wound gun.
No such thing, it's a dialled up soulburner petard.
I'll look that up for you, but it's a smaller gun.
Unlikely that you Overwatch in Fight Phase. There is a Charge Phase, so likely you declare all targets, charge, overwatch until someone makes it in, and then can't Overwatch once the unit is locked.
Gretchin, Boyz, and Nobz target a unit of Marines. Overwatch Gretchin, they all die. Overwatch Boyz, they survive and get in. Nobz just roll distance since the unit is already engaged.
Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.
Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.
But... but... they've been super playtested! Right?
changemod wrote: Yeah again, it's basically a conspiracy theory at this point that space marines might be replaced.
Space Marines (codex/stats/points) are not being replaced, per GW statement.
What (clever) thing they did was to make new ("primaris") space marine models & you can use those new models as your regular space marine models and use the regular space marine stats and have your good old SM army still.
Their hopes are you buy the models. You can also have a full primaris army or implement primaris units into your army. GW already said Primaris are more costly in points, hence, a full primaris army will be 30-40 models tops. But, who doesn't want the newest shiniest true-scaliest models? Who wouldn't want to make a full Space Marine Army with these new beasties? That's GWs clever plan! So in a way, they might well phase out space marine models - but not the space marine codex/points/etc - but the models may have seen the end coming.
Like the new space marine models came out and the rogue trader era marine models faded off into history...
docdoom77 wrote: Because, as has been shown several times in this conversation, the Machina Malifeca reads:
"...has slain any models in the fight phase, other than through Overwatch attacks."
That being said, I think that rule is just written badly. I'm pretty sure Overwatch is in the charge phase.
Well, either the puff-piece article is wrong, the rule on a data sheet is wrong, or they just mentioned it on the weapon to be extra clear. The first thing seems more likely, but I guess we still have to wait to figure it out. :(
Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.
But... but... they've been super playtested! Right?
You don't need to play test every single unit to sort out the rules.
It would make more sense in the fight phase vs the Charge phase otherwise flamers are near useless.
Charge phase Assault marines 9" away charges a group of burna boyz. Burna boyz would love to fire overwatch but their weapons are only 8" in range.
Fight phase Assault marines 9" away charge a group of burna boyz. Assault marines activate in Fight phase Burna boyz Overwatch the Assault marines with flamers Assault marines pile in.
Note: being in the fight phase actually stops all odd behaviors.
Though, by those articles the only useful way Overwatch could occur in Charge phase is if Overwatch occurs after charge movement.
Youn wrote: It would make more sense in the fight phase vs the Charge phase otherwise flamers are near useless.
Charge phase
Assault marines 9" away charges a group of burna boyz.
Burna boyz would love to fire overwatch but their weapons are only 8" in range.
Fight phase
Assault marines 9" away charge a group of burna boyz.
Assault marines activate in Fight phase
Burna boyz Overwatch the Assault marines with flamers
Assault marines pile in.
Note: being in the fight phase actually stops all odd behaviors.
Though, by those articles the only useful way Overwatch could occur in Charge phase is if Overwatch occurs after charge movement.
If I had to guess I think they meant to say during the combat phase. I am guessing that Fight and charge are the two subphases.
However it could be that it is the Fight(instead of calling it the assault phase) phase and charge and combat are two subphases of the fight phase. Who knows. Might be an error, might just not have the terminology yet. We will see.
Probably Overwatch will be resolved in the Charge Passe, but the rule in the Dreadnought specifies to avoid questions in a future FAQ.
"But... and Overwatch kills, did that co-?"
"NO, we already answer that question in the rule because we know that you cabbage heads want to twist the rules for the smallest drop of advantage!"
Or maybe it is in the fight pase and you need to keep track of the units that have sucesfully charged and in what order to resolve the overwatch rolls in the fight pase.
I don't find many differences in the way you resolve it.
Galas wrote: Probably Overwatch will be resolved in the Charge Passe, but the rule in the Dreadnought specifies to avoid questions in a future FAQ.
"But... and Overwatch kills, did that co-?"
"NO, we already answer that question in the rule because we know that you cabbage heads want to twist the rules for the smallest drop of advantage!"
Or maybe it is in the fight pase and you need to keep track of the units that have sucesfully charged and in what order to resolve the overwatch rolls in the fight pase.
I don't find many differences in the way you resolve it.
Yea, it's fairly irrelevant. I was just hoping to throw wytch players a bone before we see everything. Oh well.
Daedalus81 wrote: Does anyone know the stats for the soulburner ribaudkin from 7th? I'm curious to know what is used to do before it became a mortal wound gun.
No such thing, it's a dialled up soulburner petard.
I'll look that up for you, but it's a smaller gun.
Galas wrote: Probably Overwatch will be resolved in the Charge Passe, but the rule in the Dreadnought specifies to avoid questions in a future FAQ.
"But... and Overwatch kills, did that co-?"
"NO, we already answer that question in the rule because we know that you cabbage heads want to twist the rules for the smallest drop of advantage!"
Or maybe it is in the fight pase and you need to keep track of the units that have sucesfully charged and in what order to resolve the overwatch rolls in the fight pase.
I don't find many differences in the way you resolve it.
Yea, it's fairly irrelevant. I was just hoping to throw wytch players a bone before we see everything. Oh well.
Daedalus81 wrote: Does anyone know the stats for the soulburner ribaudkin from 7th? I'm curious to know what is used to do before it became a mortal wound gun.
No such thing, it's a dialled up soulburner petard.
I'll look that up for you, but it's a smaller gun.
Future War Cultist wrote: I like that space marines have lieutenants now. I always felt like they were missing an important part in the chain of command. Had I had my way, the old space marine command squads would have had lieutenants instead of just sergeants.
SM Lieutenants had rules and models throughout 1st Edition and functioned basically as 1st officiers to the Commander They were independent characters with minor hero stats (champions, minor heroes and major heroes stat categories were used for most 40k factions). I am happy they are going to bring them back too.
In 1st edition, Lieutenants were the Company 2IC (and Lieutenant Commanders were the Chapter 2IC). However, the statline you chose (Champion, Minor Hero, Major Hero) had no correlation to the rank; you could have a Major Hero grizzled Lieutenant and a greenhorn Champion Captain.
"How many drops is this for you, Captain?"
"Uh, two. Including this one. "
The last time I remember seeing one was the Land Speeder gunner in the Studio Blood Angels army; a yellow shoulder pad was apparently part of the rank marking, which has led some to speculate that the guy on the cover of the 2nd edition 40k box set wasn't the Blood Angels 2nd company Captain, but the 3rd company Lieutenant.
Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.
But... but... they've been super playtested! Right?
This is from a Forgeworld book, so probably not. The GW units were extensively playtest, but Forgeworld sounds like they did everything themselves. And since Forgeworld is notorious for not knowing their own game well, here we are. It is also possible that they worked off an incomplete version of the rules.
Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.
But... but... they've been super playtested! Right?
This is from a Forgeworld book, so probably not. The GW units were extensively playtest, but Forgeworld sounds like they did everything themselves. And since Forgeworld is notorious for not knowing their own game well, here we are. It is also possible that they worked off an incomplete version of the rules.
If I had to guess it is there for completeness sake.
IF something allows them to cause overwatch wounds in the fight subphase somehow then the wording is there.
pizzaguardian wrote: How would multiple overwatch work if it is done in fight phase. You just overwatch at every charger?
Actually, if Overwatch is in the fight phase. Then you overwatch a unit that piles in. You can keep overwatching units until you are engaged.
So, example
5 orcs charge a squad of marines
5 gretchin charge the same squad of marines
1 Nob also charges the same squad of marines
Orc player activates the 5 gretchin first and Overwatch occurs.
The marines Overwatch massacres the gretchin completely.
Orc player activates the 5 Orcs next and Overwatch occurs because the Marines are not engaged.
Marine's overwatch only kills 2 orcs.
3 Orcs pile into combat and swing.
Orc player now activates Nob and piles in. Because the Marines are engaged, the marines don't get to fire overwatch.
Nah, gw did say a good tactic to avoid overwatch was to pile in into other units.
An option would be that overwtach fire will be before even chargers, or the FW unit entry is wrong.
Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.
Or, there's a special rule we've not seen yet that exists on a model (or aura) which allows a unit to overwatch vs a single unit it is engaging at the start of the fight phase. In that situation this rule covers that particular interaction.
Galas wrote: Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.
Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits
Galas wrote: Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.
Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits
I don't think so. The AoS starter for example, the sprues of Liberators, Retributors, Prosecutors, Bloodwarriors and Bloodreavers all are different in the multipart box than in the starter. If that is what you are talking about. If not, ignore me And some kits in the starter aren't availible to buy separately: The Bloodstoker, the Mighty Lord of Khorne, the Khorgorath, etc...
Because of the phrasing on one of the Leviathan Dread's bespoke rules. But everything we have seen so far indicates that Overwatch is in the Charge phase, which means the Leviathan's rules are messed up.
That's encouraging, they used a stat line with defective rules to showcase FW stuff. Either this is some kind of subtle avant-garde dig at FW's past balancing issues, or there's not a lot of oversight on what gets into A) FW model rules, and/or B) showcase articles.
Galas wrote: Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.
Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits
The AoS starter box is probably a better comparison. All the units and characters are made up of mono pose sculpts that are "special just for this set" models. When the units were later released separately they were multi part kits with more options than the starter set versions.
Went back to yesterday's Faction Focus Death Guard Article to start with since it seemed like they'd taken off for a tea break. So we'll pick up from there before today's FW one:
Faction Focus Death Guard Q: Can GW please make sure there are enough copies of the new box available for pre-order so we don't get a repeat of what happened with Shadow War Armageddon?
A: Sure thing Keith; we got this.
Q: If I play a death guard army does it have to be all plague marines? Can I still as now have generic chaos marines and havocs which have death guard rules? I would be very very disappointed if not
A: O course - you can mix these guys in with any number of other Chaos models.
Q: My poor bank account is going to be taking a battering. Absolutely phenomenal models, plus the rules look fantastic.
A: Our apologies to your Bank Manager in advance...
Q: I take it Duncan will be showing everyone how to paint these?
A: Indeed he will. He's all over it like a fly on...errr... a Death Guard.
Q: Can they take dreadnoughts still? I have the Forgeworld one and the plastic kit.
A: All will be revealed!
Q: This article talks about Poxwalkers and Plague Marines, as the only available troop choices. I really hope that standard CSMs can be still used as troops. After all, the simple marines should be the backbone of any CSM army, and the Death Guard, while the poster-villains of the new edition, is still a CSM legion.
A: You can indeed use Death Guard with other Chaos models, all is good!
Q: Would you guys at the Warhammer Community Team please tell us Dark Angels players about Gets Hot. A lot of our units have twin linked plasma, and given the current nature of gets hot combined with the new twin linked rules, we would simply be killing ourselves twice as often. I would hate to have a lot of my models simply sit on my shelf and collect dust out of sheer uselessness in the new edition
A: Hey Justin - we haven't revealed too much about the plasma guns yet; all to come!
Q: A plague walkers kills a necron warrior and it becomes an infected zombie. Logic.
A: Necrons are pretty susceptible to rust...
Q: You should like have a faction focus on genestealer cult
A: Ok! We'll do just that!
Forge World Datasheet Teaser Q: Hey Warhammer 40,000. Can you just verify that str is not capped at 10, meaning this bad boy will be hitting at str 16.
A: Have a looks at this article where it says "With the stats going above 10, the system is now an increasing scale,".... https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/
Q: Any news from Forge world about Dark Mechanicum being bought into 40k as this mysterious new faction? Come on GW hype team I need to know.
A: No news on these guys right now, but if any surfaces,we will let you know on the Forge World page.
Q: Hot damn, nice big dredd... My question is this for you gw, when the new Dex's come out will they have both the forge world beasties and gw beasties in them for my nids? Also a massive thanks for being an awesome company!
A: The standard codex books are unlikely to cover Forge World models as they are not part of the Citadel range.
Q: So any hints you can give regarding whether warhound, reaver and warlord titans will be in the new indexes? I've got a titan maniple I'd rather not leave sitting on the shelf.
A: No word yet; as soon as we know, we will divulge all here!
Q: Will there be a faction focus on Eldar Corsairs? I know what most of my armies are going to be like in 8th now, but Corsairs are my favourite.
A: Not specifically on Corsairs - that would be super-specific. But they will be getting covered with rules in the new edition.
Q: Any chance the FW books or datasheets will be available digitally?
A: We are looking to make that happen, but no word right now
Q: QUESTION! Since we were told that characteristics such as Strength, Wounds etc, don't cap out at 10 anymore... does that mean that a Leviathan gets S16 on his siege Claws??????
A: Sounds like it! 8 x 2 is 16 after all!
Q: So are the new IA index books going to be sold through Forge World or are they going to be a standard GW product? Not a huge deal but it does take some consideration for those of us outside the UK.
A: Have a read of the article below; the books from Forge World will be being sold by Forge World. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/forge-world-and-the-new-warhammer-40000/
Galas wrote: Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.
Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits
I don't think so. The AoS starter for example, the sprues of Liberators, Retributors, Prosecutors, Bloodwarriors and Bloodreavers all are different in the multipart box than in the starter. If that is what you are talking about. If not, ignore me And some kits in the starter aren't availible to buy separately: The Bloodstoker, the Mighty Lord of Khorne, the Khorgorath, etc...
I can see the unique characters for the Death Guard being starter set only.
No! As peeps on this forum has said, you cannot as soon as Primaris Marines are released! GW will ban you! They will come round your house and smash them! And gak on your bed while they're there!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! *Vader pose*
The beauty of miniatures is how those small things can hold all that nuance, detail, precision.
Making said small things slightly bigger is not the trick, sth to be applauded etc.
How GW should have done it was, make new marines with significantly better proportions and new armour in the same scale as the rest of the sm range, then release new, smaller IG models (and other standard humans) as their range is in need of an overhaul anyway. No moronic ultra ultra fluff, no stupidly huge captains and some actual skill in making smaller but better/ more detailed miniatures. All would sell great.
But no, GW with a subtlety of McDonalds on double BigMac goes for maximum profit and release the bigger crap, actualy making the really awesome big crap smaller in comparision, ofc only until they release even bigger big crap for everybody to replace the old. Making miniatures bigger doesn't make them better, only more toyish and GW standard marine was big enough for sure.
Ofc the proper reaction from customers should be a big FU but no, it's big applaud and dismissal of the critics. Congratulations, is it because they "listen" now (to the wrong people sadly)? Call you "gang", like they were still young punks opposing Maggie and not an old, corporate behemot in the world of tt games? Is it the awesomness of having a marine a head taller than the other marine? The prospect of buying an entire range again so you have a new army of exactly the same but slightly bigger and almost properly proportioned? Or maybe it's just about owning that big, like really big, new, serious SyFy captain with the same silly, toyish sword of old? Not sure here really.
Galas wrote: Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.
I don't know; I'd prefer to buy the multiparts together with the starter so I could kitbash them freely.
Just because someone likes something you don't doesn't make them wrong or foolish. Who are you to decide what our reaction "should" be?
You can replace all your existing Marines with Primaris Marines if you like, and I'm sure that going forward, there'll be more Primaris models and fewer new "old" Marines models, but who cares? If you don't like the new ones, don't buy 'em. I certainly won't be, since the Astral Claws didn't have any in 907.M41.
This is the best way of introducing Marine models that "properly" tower above the normal humans. If they simply replaced the existing Marines or Imperial Guard with new ones, then all of us with existing armies would be rightfully annoyed. This way, it's entirely down to individual players as to what to do.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GoatboyBeta wrote: If only the internet had been around when GW replaced the RTB01 box with mk7 ...
Actually, that situation mirrors what's happening now. The mark 7 models were released in 1990, and all new Marines moving forward were made in that style. However, the old RTB01 plastics and the metal models to go with them were still available for years afterwards, so everyone could simply buy what they wanted.
Galas wrote: Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.
Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits
The AoS starter box is probably a better comparison. All the units and characters are made up of mono pose sculpts that are "special just for this set" models. When the units were later released separately they were multi part kits with more options than the starter set versions.
Galas wrote: Is a stupid move from a business perspective to put in preoder the multipart kits at the same time you sell the starter set with the monopose versions of those kits. One will canibalize the sales of the other. I'm pretty sure some weeks will past between the starter and the multipart plastic kits.
Agreed. But at least we can assume that the models in the starter set ARE the same models that will be in sold separately eventually.
Dark Vengeance is the last time I can remember GW making "special just for this set" models
All the sets since have included full kits, not snap-fits
I don't think so. The AoS starter for example, the sprues of Liberators, Retributors, Prosecutors, Bloodwarriors and Bloodreavers all are different in the multipart box than in the starter. If that is what you are talking about. If not, ignore me And some kits in the starter aren't availible to buy separately: The Bloodstoker, the Mighty Lord of Khorne, the Khorgorath, etc...
Absolutely. See also Deathwatch:Overkill. Jeez they've even said the box set minis are single pose. So assuming otherwise isn't wise. .
Started boxes like this have been mono-pose to reduce costs. Less options, more models per dollar. No plastic left on the sprue. I know what I am getting when I get this box.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Just because someone likes something you don't doesn't make them wrong or foolish. Who are you to decide what our reaction "should" be?
You can replace all your existing Marines with Primaris Marines if you like, and I'm sure that going forward, there'll be more Primaris models and fewer new "old" Marines models, but who cares? If you don't like the new ones, don't buy 'em. I certainly won't be, since the Astral Claws didn't have any in 907.M41.
This is the best way of introducing Marine models that "properly" tower above the normal humans. If they simply replaced the existing Marines or Imperial Guard with new ones, then all of us with existing armies would be rightfully annoyed. This way, it's entirely down to individual players as to what to do.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GoatboyBeta wrote: If only the internet had been around when GW replaced the RTB01 box with mk7 ...
Actually, that situation mirrors what's happening now. The mark 7 models were released in 1990, and all new Marines moving forward were made in that style. However, the old RTB01 plastics and the metal models to go with them were still available for years afterwards, so everyone could simply buy what they wanted.
Considering just how many different Marine model kits there are I'm actually glad they're doing a slow swap. Otherwise we'd need two solid years of nothing but Primaris updates to get caught up.
Khorne Berserkers pile in twice and fight twice each Fight Phase.
I think they may have decided the way to balance everything was to make everything overpowered.
Currently I'm still iffy on 8th because everything has super AWESOME!!!! rules. Emphasis by GW.
I feel like they took things that were clearly overpowered and brought them down, then took everything else and brought it up. They've set a new level for the playing field, and it is covered in blood.
I honestly don't think I'm too upset about that, assuming the balancing is carried out sufficiently, and no single codex is notoriously strong or weak. Plus, they promised fast games, right?
changemod wrote: Yeah again, it's basically a conspiracy theory at this point that space marines might be replaced.
Space Marines (codex/stats/points) are not being replaced, per GW statement.
What (clever) thing they did was to make new ("primaris") space marine models & you can use those new models as your regular space marine models and use the regular space marine stats and have your good old SM army still.
Their hopes are you buy the models. You can also have a full primaris army or implement primaris units into your army. GW already said Primaris are more costly in points, hence, a full primaris army will be 30-40 models tops. But, who doesn't want the newest shiniest true-scaliest models? Who wouldn't want to make a full Space Marine Army with these new beasties? That's GWs clever plan! So in a way, they might well phase out space marine models - but not the space marine codex/points/etc - but the models may have seen the end coming.
Like the new space marine models came out and the rogue trader era marine models faded off into history...
God I hope not. I'm not the only one who thinks these new Primaris are fugly? Especially those wacky jump pack troops with dual machineguns.
ClockworkZion wrote: Well this may be the best paint scheme I've seen for the new Primaris Marines:
Spoiler:
That said, despite the new Primaris guys, I haven't seen much that rubs me the wrong way for the new edition, save for FW's grav rules.
PLEASE tell me that regular Grav won't drop 5 wounds on Vehicle, Monstrous and Titanic keyword models.
im guessing if grav works like that, it will be high armor reduction and maybe 1 damage for normal dudes, 2-3 for keyword models.
a few of those wont be tooo bad. and will be worse for just regular dudes if the rate of fire is kept in check.
something more consistent than a melta but no potential for mass destruction.
As long as the keyword doesn't include "Character" that'd be acceptable. I mean then it wouldn't be a Warlord killer for most armies. Daemons and Nids would need some love there.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Just because someone likes something you don't doesn't make them wrong or foolish. Who are you to decide what our reaction "should" be?
If you actualy read my post, you could have seen the posts I quote, where it's two young gentlemen trying to make a fool of an other poster concerned about primaris marines. My post is just adequate.
But I really want to see what his rules will look like. He's never died in a game yet and is always super effective.
