91452
Post by: changemod
Does anyone see either of the following:
Bonus attack for charging
Restriction on sharing transports between factions/subfactions.
89783
Post by: docdoom77
 JohnU wrote: docdoom77 wrote: JohnU wrote:A flat +1 for ALL types of terrain? Guess that really does simplify things.
I don't mind that, but I hate the "if all models in a unit are in a piece of terrain" part. So intervening cover means nothing? Yuck.
That is odd, since it would make the Aegis and Tidewall useless without bespoke terrain rules...
As purchased fortification, they will almost certainly have bespoke rules.
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Post by: Kijamon
JohnU wrote: docdoom77 wrote: JohnU wrote:A flat +1 for ALL types of terrain? Guess that really does simplify things.
I don't mind that, but I hate the "if all models in a unit are in a piece of terrain" part. So intervening cover means nothing? Yuck.
That is odd, since it would make the Aegis and Tidewall useless without bespoke terrain rules...
The non marine Imperium book has rules for Fortifications in it.
The Chaos one has the Chaos bastion in it.
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Post by: Thargrim
Pretty awesome, that is a lot better than some of the other artwork we've got the past couple years. I see some new nurgle type stuff in there, not sure if its just artistic or if they are based on any physical models that we haven't seen yet.
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
I think this adds to the theory that the Primaris units will have more options with there full Dex. If they were restricted to a single weapon load out and unit size, why bother to list the points for each weapon and individual trooper instead of listing the points for the whole package?
13225
Post by: Bottle
 Thargrim wrote:
Pretty awesome, that is a lot better than some of the other artwork we've got the past couple years. I see some new nurgle type stuff in there, not sure if its just artistic or if they are based on any physical models that we haven't seen yet.
The artwork is freakin awesome! Do you think the flyers in the background are future models too? They seem a different shape to the current Space Marine ones.
Edit - probably just Thunderhawks :-)
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Post by: Crimson
GoatboyBeta wrote:
I think this adds to the theory that the Primaris units will have more options with there full Dex. If they were restricted to a single weapon load out and unit size, why bother to list the points for each weapon and individual trooper instead of listing the points for the whole package?
An excellent observation! I really hope you're right!
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Post by: Mr Morden
Transport rules - for all those panicking - the owner chooses casulties if it is destroyed and any 1's are rolled
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Post by: JimOnMars
 Cephalobeard wrote:Those are... very weird points. Also Inceptors, at 53ppm, is a lot more than I expected.
I am also surprised. I wonder if GW things inceptors are that strong, or if everything is getting a points increase?
77728
Post by: dosiere
docdoom77 wrote: JohnU wrote:A flat +1 for ALL types of terrain? Guess that really does simplify things.
I don't mind that, but I hate the "if all models in a unit are in a piece of terrain" part. So intervening cover means nothing? Yuck.
Yep, it's the same way in AoS and it makes no sense there either. Fortunately it's an example of a simple and usually unanimous house rule to set in place.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
 JimOnMars wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Those are... very weird points. Also Inceptors, at 53ppm, is a lot more than I expected.
I am also surprised. I wonder if GW things inceptors are that strong, or if everything is getting a points increase?
It's more than I thought, but they're essentially 2 tactical marines with heavy bolters (the 2W cancels this out). For a small increase in points, you are at half the range, but no -1 To Hit on move, can assault, have T5, more movement, an extra attack, an extra charge attack, and can DS. Seems like a very good trade off.
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Post by: docdoom77
dosiere wrote: docdoom77 wrote: JohnU wrote:A flat +1 for ALL types of terrain? Guess that really does simplify things.
I don't mind that, but I hate the "if all models in a unit are in a piece of terrain" part. So intervening cover means nothing? Yuck.
Yep, it's the same way in AoS and it makes no sense there either. Fortunately it's an example of a simple and usually unanimous house rule to set in place.
I just thought that 40k, being the kind of game it is would have better terrain rules. Cover has always been more important in 40k than in fantasy. This is easily the most disappointing thing I've seen from 8th (though I'm still feeling more positive than negative).
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Post by: ClockworkZion
Terrain you can purchase has seperate rules from the basic rules.
5269
Post by: lord_blackfang
So, terrain is still meaningless, which means maneuvering is still meaningless and the game is still just an exercise in getting first turn and shooting anything that can hurt you.
gg, Reece and company.
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Post by: docdoom77
Do you think it will include giving cover without being 'inside' it? Because this seems like a big issue to me.
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Post by: buddha
https://m.facebook.c...245848535481314
Not gonna lie, love the last word block of Ka'Bandah killing the remaining Tyranids with a whole, these guys are mine feel.
53623
Post by: Ronin_eX
JimOnMars wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Those are... very weird points. Also Inceptors, at 53ppm, is a lot more than I expected.
I am also surprised. I wonder if GW things inceptors are that strong, or if everything is getting a points increase?
It will depend. We already know marines are getting a point cheaper so not everything is getting a cost bump. In general they appear to be tough as nails (even a lascannon only wounds them on a 3+), they are bikes flight and a second wound with better basic weapons.
Now, sans context, no clue if they are worth that cost. But they can deliver a pinpoint, 18 shot, S5/ AP-1 alpha strike just where it's needed and weather a whole lot of return fire.
They are basically on par for cost with a full tactical squad (assuming 13 point marines with fixings). That 10-man squad has more wounds, but each wound is less tough. The 10-man squad has more specialized weapons available that can hit hard, but the sheer output of the Inceptors (specialized though it may be) is prodigious when the right target is selected. There are pros and cons to each. This isn't a 40-50 point 3rd Edition terminator conundrum where anyone can see that it just isn't worth the cost compared to a similar amount of tacticals.
For the price of about a full tactical squad you can crab Inceptors and they have a number of advantages. Meanwhile, that tactical squad has a leg up on Inceptors in a few cases. So we can see that, internally, they may well be balanced. Now whether or not it balances out against other lists?
Who knows right now?
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Post by: ClockworkZion
docdoom77 wrote:
Do you think it will include giving cover without being 'inside' it? Because this seems like a big issue to me.
Wall of Martyrs might
13225
Post by: Bottle
I'm really excited about thinking of the different armies I can make with the detachments.
One interesting thought though, is I am struggling to make a battle forged army with Primaris content in the starter. You get:
3 HQs (presuming Ancient is HQ)
2 Troops
1 Heavy Support
1 Fast Attack
The only way that fits in is to go with a Patrol Detachment and then an Auxiliary. Do people think it's more likely the Ancient will be an Elite choice instead?
63064
Post by: BoomWolf
They cost like a 7th crisis suit, come at high speed, fly and pack two decent guns....
So. Marine crisis suits.
That side picture of the numarine plasma reveals just how much tau tech is in it.
Long story short, numarine equipment was built using reversed tau tech.
The inquisition ain't gonna be happy once they find out.
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Post by: dosiere
 lord_blackfang wrote:So, terrain is still meaningless, which means maneuvering is still meaningless and the game is still just an exercise in getting first turn and shooting anything that can hurt you.
gg, Reece and company.
Well, I agree and it's very disappointing but I'll wait and see what the rules are for specific terrain pieces before thinking too much about it. I really love what bolt action does with terrain, in particular the way it keeps the early game from being just a shooting fest. Then again, quick, bloody games are apparently the goal here so maybe it fits just fine into what the designers/playtesters were after.
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Post by: Ghaz
 buddha wrote:https://m.facebook.c...245848535481314
Not gonna lie, love the last word block of Ka'Bandah killing the remaining Tyranids with a whole, these guys are mine feel.
Link doesn't work.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
 BoomWolf wrote:They cost like a 7th crisis suit, come at high speed, fly and pack two decent guns....
So. Marine crisis suits.
That side picture of the numarine plasma reveals just how much tau tech is in it.
Long story short, numarine equipment was built using reversed tau tech.
The inquisition ain't gonna be happy once they find out.
Huh? The Plasma Incinerator looks almost exactly like a Skitarii Plasma Caliver. It even looks a lot like a scaled down version of the Plasma Cannon from the Venerable Dreadnought kit.
50012
Post by: Crimson
 Bottle wrote:I'm really excited about thinking of the different armies I can make with the detachments.
One interesting thought though, is I am struggling to make a battle forged army with Primaris content in the starter. You get:
3 HQs (presuming Ancient is HQ)
2 Troops
1 Heavy Support
1 Fast Attack
The only way that fits in is to go with a Patrol Detachment and then an Auxiliary. Do people think it's more likely the Ancient will be an Elite choice instead?
Liutenants were listed with unit size of 1-2, so presumably you can take two with one slot. I really hope they're HQ and not elite, so one can lead a small force. Not sure about the Ancient... I guess he could make sense as an elite, I don't really see him as actual leader.
13225
Post by: Bottle
 Crimson wrote: Bottle wrote:I'm really excited about thinking of the different armies I can make with the detachments.
One interesting thought though, is I am struggling to make a battle forged army with Primaris content in the starter. You get:
3 HQs (presuming Ancient is HQ)
2 Troops
1 Heavy Support
1 Fast Attack
The only way that fits in is to go with a Patrol Detachment and then an Auxiliary. Do people think it's more likely the Ancient will be an Elite choice instead?
Liutenants were listed with unit size of 1-2, so presumably you can take two with one slot. I really hope they're HQ and not elite, so one can lead a small force. Not sure about the Ancient... I guess he could make sense as an elite, I don't really see him as actual leader.
Yeah I had included the Lieutenants as one of those 3 HQs. On the flipside the Death Guard might be able to fill a battalion detachment as it looks like they have 3 troops choices.
63064
Post by: BoomWolf
 casvalremdeikun wrote: BoomWolf wrote:They cost like a 7th crisis suit, come at high speed, fly and pack two decent guns....
So. Marine crisis suits.
That side picture of the numarine plasma reveals just how much tau tech is in it.
Long story short, numarine equipment was built using reversed tau tech.
The inquisition ain't gonna be happy once they find out.
Huh? The Plasma Incinerator looks almost exactly like a Skitarii Plasma Caliver. It even looks a lot like a scaled down version of the Plasma Cannon from the Venerable Dreadnought kit.
Can you not see the two power cells blobs right next to the handle who are IDENTICAL to the ones on tau plasma rifles, that no imperial weapon ever had?
50012
Post by: Crimson
Yeah, It seems that the primaris need more troops for batallion. I really hope that the Intercessors get some options with their multipart kit, as I'd hate to field a ton of identical squads.
70069
Post by: Rippy
Please take the "Primaris weapons use Tau tech" to a new thread
1547
Post by: Fenris-77
Crimson wrote:Yeah, It seems that the primaris need more troops for batallion. I really hope that the Intercessors get some options with their multipart kit, as I'd hate to field a ton of identical squads.
I'd imagine that you'll either see that, or, alternatively, other types of intercessors with different armament. Sort of like the two infantry Primaris squads we've seen, I can't imagine that the Primaris don't have any assault dedicated troops, so we'll see something.
110703
Post by: Galas
Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh? 
54868
Post by: RoperPG
AoS has separate rules for linear obstacles, they're just not in the 'core' rules.
Would be extremely surprised if 40k didn't have them too.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
BoomWolf wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: BoomWolf wrote:They cost like a 7th crisis suit, come at high speed, fly and pack two decent guns....
So. Marine crisis suits.
That side picture of the numarine plasma reveals just how much tau tech is in it.
Long story short, numarine equipment was built using reversed tau tech.
The inquisition ain't gonna be happy once they find out.
Huh? The Plasma Incinerator looks almost exactly like a Skitarii Plasma Caliver. It even looks a lot like a scaled down version of the Plasma Cannon from the Venerable Dreadnought kit.
Can you not see the two power cells blobs right next to the handle who are IDENTICAL to the ones on tau plasma rifles, that no imperial weapon ever had?
I suggest you look at the Venerable Dreadnought Plasma Cannon.
79109
Post by: Vashones
docdoom77 wrote:dosiere wrote: docdoom77 wrote: JohnU wrote:A flat +1 for ALL types of terrain? Guess that really does simplify things.
I don't mind that, but I hate the "if all models in a unit are in a piece of terrain" part. So intervening cover means nothing? Yuck.
Yep, it's the same way in AoS and it makes no sense there either. Fortunately it's an example of a simple and usually unanimous house rule to set in place.
I just thought that 40k, being the kind of game it is would have better terrain rules. Cover has always been more important in 40k than in fantasy. This is easily the most disappointing thing I've seen from 8th (though I'm still feeling more positive than negative).
In a recent Frontline gaming podcast they said that there is much more in-depth terrain rules that what we have with 7th. Also in the community post about cities of death and ruins, they talked about infantry getting cover while in terrain while vehicles and monsters need to be obscured, and that infantry can move through ruins while vehicles and monsters cannot.
I would guess that there will be data slates for terrain and/or that there will be advanced rules for terrain that we are not seeing here.
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Post by: Goat
I didn't see anything that prevents shooting a unit then charging a completely different unit? Did I just miss something in my excitement?
91452
Post by: changemod
No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
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Post by: docdoom77
changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
I think it's been replaced by going first. Which is fine, but I sure hope Orks still have a Furious Charge equivalent, or they're gonna have some lackluster charges.
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Post by: Daedalus81
Intercessors at 24. Hellblasters are 23.
Kind of odd - I can't see a reason for it. Perhaps making the unit more palatable?
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Post by: gigasnail
Jesus that Baal fluff is bad.
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Post by: jcd386
changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
I think you just get to attack first instead.
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Post by: BlaxicanX
changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
The general assumption is that there is no universal charge bonus other then hitting first. The only units that will get an attack bonus for charging are those who have it as a special rule.
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Post by: primalexile
Captain in Gravis w/ Power Sword & Boltstorm Gauntlet = 135pts
Primaris Ancient = 63 points
LT w/Autobolt = 60
LW w/PS = 64
Inceptor = 159 *On the assumption they each have to buy 2 guns*
Hellblaster = 200
Intercessor = 120
Intercessor = 120
921 up to 947 depending on MC or regular power sword.
98515
Post by: Lord Kragan
It was okay, to be honest.
81364
Post by: WrentheFaceless
The new marine Plasma rifles just look like marine sized Plasma Culverns that the Skitarii have
I dont see the tau tech
89783
Post by: docdoom77
Daedalus81 wrote:Intercessors at 24. Hellblasters are 23.
Kind of odd - I can't see a reason for it. Perhaps making the unit more palatable?
I'm sure it's because you have to buy the gun for 17 points.
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Post by: Daedalus81
So based on the rules - everything can shoot and charge? Automatically Appended Next Post: docdoom77 wrote:Daedalus81 wrote:Intercessors at 24. Hellblasters are 23.
Kind of odd - I can't see a reason for it. Perhaps making the unit more palatable?
I'm sure it's because you have to buy the gun for 17 points.
Yea I figured as much. I don't think people can complain that Primaris are made to be more powerful than regular marines.
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Post by: JohnU
So BA have been bailed out by Necrons, Khorne, and their spiritual liege?
I'm not sure which is more embarrassing.
47473
Post by: gigasnail
#forgethenarrative
91452
Post by: changemod
jcd386 wrote:changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
I think you just get to attack first instead.
BlaxicanX wrote:changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
The general assumption is that there is no universal charge bonus other then hitting first. The only units that will get an attack bonus for charging are those who have it as a special rule.
Then I really hope they frequently raised the base attacks of assault units or bonus charge attacks are -really- common, because otherwise that along with the no bonus for two weapons thing is a major game-wide nerf to assault.
92543
Post by: Binabik15
Re: awesome Nurgle art
Are those things in the lower left the full gribblies to the rumour engine pic of many chubby feet? Yum.
50012
Post by: Crimson
docdoom77 wrote:Daedalus81 wrote:Intercessors at 24. Hellblasters are 23.
Kind of odd - I can't see a reason for it. Perhaps making the unit more palatable?
I'm sure it's because you have to buy the gun for 17 points.
Yes, but would it not make more sense to have the Hellblasters at 24 and the gun at 16?
110703
Post by: Galas
 Binabik15 wrote:Re: awesome Nurgle art
Are those things in the lower left the full gribblies to the rumour engine pic of many chubby feet? Yum.
Nurgle Tryceratops/Elephants? Hmmm, jummy...
If it is only artist freedom I'll be both sad and happy. Sad because I love them, and happy because at last GW let artist drawn things that haven't models.
And in the Baal fluff... is bad yes, but really is just the cliché Imperial narrative of 95% of their storys 
" WE ARE DOOMED. EPIC LAST STAND. OMG REINFORCEMENTS. WE ARE SAVED BUT BARELY ALIVE. CHAN CHAN CHAN A NEW VILLAIN EMERGES!"
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Post by: JimOnMars
changemod wrote:
Then I really hope they frequently raised the base attacks of assault units or bonus charge attacks are -really- common, because otherwise that along with the no bonus for two weapons thing is a major game-wide nerf to assault.
Orks got +1 attacks with choppas...presumably some other dual-wielding weapons will get the same rule.
No idea if boyz get furious charge...Reece/ GW did not decide to include any stats in the ork release.
101511
Post by: Future War Cultist
Is this the future of gets hot weapons? I like it, because even at their weakest level they still match what they were before.
And the Interceptors are unreal! Very cool though. And the Captain is cool too. Sorry, I'm gushing and my vocabulary is going out of the window.
61896
Post by: dan2026
Binabik15 wrote:Re: awesome Nurgle art
Are those things in the lower left the full gribblies to the rumour engine pic of many chubby feet? Yum.
I assume they are the new Beasts of Nurgle.
47473
Post by: gigasnail
You know as long as they've fixed tyranids as a playable faction, I give exactly zero feths about the fluff.
It's still bad, that they do it all the time is irrelevant.
72660
Post by: FunJohn
So if you buy the weapons seperatly, thats 159,- for 3 Inceptors
53623
Post by: Ronin_eX
JimOnMars wrote:changemod wrote:
Then I really hope they frequently raised the base attacks of assault units or bonus charge attacks are -really- common, because otherwise that along with the no bonus for two weapons thing is a major game-wide nerf to assault.
Orks got +1 attacks with choppas...presumably some other dual-wielding weapons will get the same rule.
No idea if boyz get furious charge...Reece/ GW did not decide to include any stats in the ork release.
It's also good to keep in mind that WS4 is likely to become WS 3+ now. Orks used to generally hit on 4's against basically everything. This can't be discounted when taking a look at CC specialists in the new edition, most of them got a decent boost in terms of hit rate.
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Post by: Kirasu
 Galas wrote:Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
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Post by: Coyote81
 Kirasu wrote: Galas wrote:Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
It's not that bad. When I started reading it I thought they might wipe out every blood angel except commander date and then have gulliman offer him "reinforcements"
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Post by: JohnnyHell
I like that the points aren't all round 5s, 10s etc. I trust non-round numbers more than conveniently rounded ones!
1547
Post by: Fenris-77
docdoom77 wrote:changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
I think it's been replaced by going first. Which is fine, but I sure hope Orks still have a Furious Charge equivalent, or they're gonna have some lackluster charges.
Two base attacks (unless that changes, but I don't see it dropping) plus one from a choppa, (plus a pistol shot) isn't bad. Going first makes a huge difference (especially the Klaws).
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Post by: GrimTeef
Hmm. Transport rules don't mention anything about Access Points (you just put embarked units within 3" of the transport vehicle, not anything specific as to where) or what happens if a vehicle is surrounded by the enemy and destroyed (just mentions that if the vehicle is destroyed, on a 1 the occupant dies after being set up).
Could be that if the enemy models cannot be set up around the perimeter of the destroyed vehicle because then they would be within 1" of enemy models (and then not eligible for being set up) then that would effectively destroy them...
Also, I have yet to see anything about vehicles exploding and affecting nearby units. I wonder if explosion damage still even happens.
98515
Post by: Lord Kragan
Yeah, let's be honest: this was mediocre but not as bad as you guys want to paint it. In so far I saw no mentions of multilasers nor any side invoking their spiritual liege. Nothing great, let's not kid ourselves but that looks like it's an introductory blurb of something that would actually develop more properly rather than proper "fluff" (it just says it happened doesn't expand on it).
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
I'm currently working my way through the Black Library Horus Heresy series of novels.
Then I read this BA material.
The experience was... jarring.
Obviously you expect a quality difference between novels and game book fluff, but even so...
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Kirasu wrote: Galas wrote:Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
Its not good but its better than much of the stuff in the Grey Kinghts Codex or Murder Mc Murder from planet murder............hell its better than the constant "blood" this and Blood that in previous BA codex.
Sadly it is another Marines, Marines, Marines, Marines - oh and its about Marines. Yeah its about Baal but then Cadia had plenty of other factions.....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 GrimTeef wrote:Hmm. Transport rules don't mention anything about Access Points (you just put embarked units within 3" of the transport vehicle, not anything specific as to where) or what happens if a vehicle is surrounded by the enemy and destroyed (just mentions that if the vehicle is destroyed, on a 1 the occupant dies after being set up).
Could be that if the enemy models cannot be set up around the perimeter of the destroyed vehicle because then they would be within 1" of enemy models (and then not eligible for being set up) then that would effectively destroy them...
Also, I have yet to see anything about vehicles exploding and affecting nearby units. I wonder if explosion damage still even happens.
Yep that works - you can't deploy them - they die.
I doubt normal vehicles explode.
98904
Post by: Imateria
Kirasu wrote: Galas wrote:Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
Not worst but, is that it? I mean we had an excellent 2 book campaign in Shield of Baal leading up to this and 4 paragraphs is all we get?
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 JohnnyHell wrote:I like that the points aren't all round 5s, 10s etc. I trust non-round numbers more than conveniently rounded ones!
When most Squads are still in groups of five, you still end up with the same result. The characters deviate from that though.
I gotta say, I have the odd numbers, but I will survive.
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Post by: jcd386
changemod wrote:jcd386 wrote:changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
I think you just get to attack first instead.
BlaxicanX wrote:changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
The general assumption is that there is no universal charge bonus other then hitting first. The only units that will get an attack bonus for charging are those who have it as a special rule.
Then I really hope they frequently raised the base attacks of assault units or bonus charge attacks are -really- common, because otherwise that along with the no bonus for two weapons thing is a major game-wide nerf to assault.
It is a nerf compared the old rules if you only look at those two things, but there are also a lot of new things (vehicles can assault, units can fall back out of assault, a lot of the weapons do different things, etc).
It will definitely be different, but if anything i think assault will be more tactical and interesting.
88026
Post by: casvalremdeikun
 Imateria wrote: Kirasu wrote: Galas wrote:Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
Not worst but, is that it? I mean we had an excellent 2 book campaign in Shield of Baal leading up to this and 4 paragraphs is all we get?
Perhaps a campaign book that lets you play it out in your way will come out.
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Post by: BrianDavion
yes we do, 13 points, per GW
52617
Post by: Lockark
The imperial guard can take so much in a single troop choice I can't see any reason for them not to build their armies in vanguard, spearhead or out rider. They have great unit choices in all three of these slots.
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Post by: ERJAK
changemod wrote:jcd386 wrote:changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
I think you just get to attack first instead.
BlaxicanX wrote:changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
The general assumption is that there is no universal charge bonus other then hitting first. The only units that will get an attack bonus for charging are those who have it as a special rule.
Then I really hope they frequently raised the base attacks of assault units or bonus charge attacks are -really- common, because otherwise that along with the no bonus for two weapons thing is a major game-wide nerf to assault.
Can't be a nerf because nerf is a relative value and we don't have a baseline yet. This is not 7th+ it's an entirely new game (pretty much) and things like this are apples to oranges.
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Post by: davou
 Rippy wrote:Please take the "Primaris weapons use Tau tech" to a new thread
you need to goto the hospital
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Post by: FunJohn
 Lockark wrote:The imperial guard can take so much in a single troop choice I can't see any reason for them not to build their armies in vanguard, spearhead or out rider. They have great unit choices in all three of these slots.
I think guard will be among a few of the only factions that can fill out the batallion FOC, which gives a wopping 9 CPs, so I can see guard commanders aiming for that.
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Post by: Nightlord1987
My all Lootaz army is now legally possible.
*salivates*
91452
Post by: changemod
ERJAK wrote:changemod wrote:jcd386 wrote:changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
I think you just get to attack first instead.
BlaxicanX wrote:changemod wrote:No seriously, did I miss bonus attack for charging or is it just not there anymore?
The general assumption is that there is no universal charge bonus other then hitting first. The only units that will get an attack bonus for charging are those who have it as a special rule.
Then I really hope they frequently raised the base attacks of assault units or bonus charge attacks are -really- common, because otherwise that along with the no bonus for two weapons thing is a major game-wide nerf to assault.
Can't be a nerf because nerf is a relative value and we don't have a baseline yet. This is not 7th+ it's an entirely new game (pretty much) and things like this are apples to oranges.
It has an absurdly long list of legacy stats and rules, so a particularly sweeping change can have pretty predictable effects.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
I hope Plasmaguns are basically shorter ranged, lower AP versions of the Plasma Incinerator. 24", Str 7, AP -3, with the same Overcharge ability. If they keep the same AP, I will be okay with it though.
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Post by: BoomWolf
Don't think plasma guns will have an overcharge ability.
I wager 24" rapid fire 1 Str 7 Ap -4 with always-on "gets-hot"
The fact the new incinerators don't blow up ALL the time is the upgrade.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Binabik15 wrote:Re: awesome Nurgle art
Are those things in the lower left the full gribblies to the rumour engine pic of many chubby feet? Yum.
Wonder if those are new Beasts of Nurgle?
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Post by: Rippy
I am at the hospital. In the waiting room. 2 hours later. Automatically Appended Next Post: Loving that new Nurgle/Ultramarine art, great indication of what DG might be getting shortly after launch.
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Post by: davethepak
Rippy wrote:
I am at the hospital. In the waiting room. 2 hours later.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Loving that new Nurgle/Ultramarine art, great indication of what DG might be getting shortly after launch.
As a fellow dad, hope the best for you and the family - never fun with kids at the hospital.
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Post by: Unusual Suspect
casvalremdeikun wrote:I hope Plasmaguns are basically shorter ranged, lower AP versions of the Plasma Incinerator. 24", Str 7, AP -3, with the same Overcharge ability. If they keep the same AP, I will be okay with it though.
I think you have the right of it, and it tracks the recent boost from Bolter to Bolt Rifle after getting the Cawl Treatment: +6" range, -1 AP
I'm hoping that the Tau Plasma Rifle remains distinguished for its reliability (albeit at lower raw output) - something like Rapid Fire 1, 24" S6 AP-3 D2.
I'd rather have AP-4 too, but I think that unlikely (Primaris Marines gotta primaris).
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Post by: Eldarain
Thanks for collecting all this. Really busy right now but looks like some solid info about the workings are coming clear.
What goes up for pre-order tomorrow?
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Post by: xttz
Nothing for 40k... all of that is the following Saturday
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Post by: Lockark
So if your playing a open imperial faction army does that mean you can buy any imperial transport for any imperial unit? Land raiders for ogryn, chimerias for space marines, etc?
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
 Nostromodamus wrote:I'm currently working my way through the Black Library Horus Heresy series of novels.
Then I read this BA material.
The experience was... jarring.
Obviously you expect a quality difference between novels and game book fluff, but even so...
And you see why the Black Legion codex supplement fluff was so good compared to any other codexes or supplement, its was written by ADB.
They should hire their best BL novelist to make Fluff in codexes honestly...
14
Post by: Ghaz
 Eldarain wrote:Thanks for collecting all this. Really busy right now but looks like some solid info about the workings are coming clear.
What goes up for pre-order tomorrow?
Lord of the Rings and Blood Bowl.
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Post by: Tyran
Lockark wrote:So if your playing a open imperial faction army does that mean you can buy any imperial transport for any imperial unit? Land raiders for ogryn, chimerias for space marines, etc?
You can buy, but you probably can't use as I expect that transports work using keywords.
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Post by: Coyote81
Tyran wrote: Lockark wrote:So if your playing a open imperial faction army does that mean you can buy any imperial transport for any imperial unit? Land raiders for ogryn, chimerias for space marines, etc?
You can buy, but you probably can't use as I expect that transports work using keywords.
You could play an Imperial Faction, and take Ogryn elites and space marine drop pods I suppose.
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Post by: Galas
Are you serious? Only this?! This has to be the worst pre-order week in... GW history
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Post by: Tyran
 Coyote81 wrote:Tyran wrote: Lockark wrote:So if your playing a open imperial faction army does that mean you can buy any imperial transport for any imperial unit? Land raiders for ogryn, chimerias for space marines, etc?
You can buy, but you probably can't use as I expect that transports work using keywords.
You could play an Imperial Faction, and take Ogryn elites and space marine drop pods I suppose.
Yeah, but I expect that drop pods will have the keyword Adeptus Astartes as requirement, so you wouldn't be able to put the Ogryns in the drop pods.
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Post by: Azreal13
Kirasu wrote: Galas wrote:Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
What's that GW? Why, certainly, I'll hold your beer!
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Post by: Oaka
So embarked models in a destroyed transport are killed on a roll of a '1', but you get to roll all the dice together and then apply the results as you see fit. Will we see units of cheap models filling up the transport capacity to be sacrifices if the transport goes down with your ultra killy expensive unit inside?
I'm specifically imagining a Raider filled with Drazhar, a unit of Incubi and.... Beastmaster Kyle, Patron Saint of the Poor D6 Roll.
Also, morale checks for any unit with a slain model that turn, which includes disembarking casualties as well as plasma overheats. Someone out there is going to break out their new Primaris Hellblaster super soldiers in their first 8th edition game and get most of the unit killed in their own turn.
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Post by: Roleplayer
That Blood Angels fluff is just...embarrassingly bad.
Like, WOW.
Def sticking with my Plan A.
Rip out and destroy all fluff pages from my 8th edition book, and just use the rules.
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Post by: Lockark
Tyran wrote: Coyote81 wrote:Tyran wrote: Lockark wrote:So if your playing a open imperial faction army does that mean you can buy any imperial transport for any imperial unit? Land raiders for ogryn, chimerias for space marines, etc?
You can buy, but you probably can't use as I expect that transports work using keywords.
You could play an Imperial Faction, and take Ogryn elites and space marine drop pods I suppose.
Yeah, but I expect that drop pods will have the keyword Adeptus Astartes as requirement, so you wouldn't be able to put the Ogryns in the drop pods.
So I guess the answer is we need to see the unit entries if they limit what can be transported?
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Post by: Grimskul
Looks like the Blood Angels got BAAL'ed out of their predicament.
>.>
I'll let myself out.
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Post by: Tyran
Kirasu wrote: This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
No, not by a long shot. It is incredibly disappointing, but it is nowhere as offensive as the Grey Knights slaughtering SoB to use their blood against Chaos, or anything written by C.S. Goto. Automatically Appended Next Post: Lockark wrote: So I guess the answer is we need to see the unit entries if they limit what can be transported?
Yes, and by seeing the Trygon's Subterranean Assault, which requires the Hive Fleet and Infantry keywords, I expect keywords requirements to be basically omnipresent.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
 Azreal13 wrote: Kirasu wrote: Galas wrote:Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
What's that GW? Why, certainly, I'll hold your beer!
No need, we got Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau and half-eldar space marines back in Rogue Trader.
But seriously, that raises folks ire now? This isn't even the worst fluff about Blood Angels.
I am disappoint Dakka, this doesn't even pretend to approach SoB-blood annointed GK, Draigo, Spiritual Liege, or even BA+Necrons. And it can't even bask in the glow of terribadness that is C.S. Goto.
In comparison this is just another "X fought Y, it was super hard core" which has been the central pillar of GW fluff since the days it was filing the serial numbers off of 2000AD material.
Worst fluff indeed. Bah!
52617
Post by: Lockark
Tyran wrote: Kirasu wrote:
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
No, not by a long shot.
It is incredibly disappointing, but it is nowhere as offensive as the Grey Knights slaughtering SoB to use their blood against Chaos, or anything written by C.S. Goto.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lockark wrote:
So I guess the answer is we need to see the unit entries if they limit what can be transported?
Yes, and by seeing the Trygon's Subterranean Assault, which requires the Hive Fleet and Infantry keywords, I expect keywords requirements to be basically omnipresent.
But from the army comp rules leeked today it sounds like you can buy anything as a transport for anyone as long as the faction keywords match.
Thus why now I wonder if doing a imperial keyword faction let's you really mix and match units and transports. They are all the imperial faction keyword.
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Post by: BrianDavion
 Ronin_eX wrote: Azreal13 wrote: Kirasu wrote: Galas wrote:Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
What's that GW? Why, certainly, I'll hold your beer!
No need, we got Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau and half-eldar space marines back in Rogue Trader.
But seriously, that raises folks ire now? This isn't even the worst fluff about Blood Angels.
I am disappoint Dakka, this doesn't even pretend to approach SoB-blood annointed GK, Draigo, Spiritual Liege, or even BA+Necrons. And it can't even bask in the glow of terribadness that is C.S. Goto.
In comparison this is just another "X fought Y, it was super hard core" which has been the central pillar of GW fluff since the days it was filing the serial numbers off of 2000AD material.
Worst fluff indeed. Bah!
most of the people complaining just see Gulliman and go all "THE ULTRAMARINES SAVED THE BLOOD ANGELS RAAAAAGH!" forgetting two very important facts. 1: it's not the Ultramarines, it's the INDOMATUS CRUSADE, which consists of a number of space marine chapters (including an entire founding worth of primaris Marines) vast numbers of guard, proably large numbers of sisters of battle, the admech, ohh and the Adeptus freaking CUSTODES. 2: MOST of the Ultramarines are still in Ultramar (apparently fighting something called the Plague Wars)
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Post by: buddha
Lockark wrote:Tyran wrote: Kirasu wrote:
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
No, not by a long shot.
It is incredibly disappointing, but it is nowhere as offensive as the Grey Knights slaughtering SoB to use their blood against Chaos, or anything written by C.S. Goto.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lockark wrote:
So I guess the answer is we need to see the unit entries if they limit what can be transported?
Yes, and by seeing the Trygon's Subterranean Assault, which requires the Hive Fleet and Infantry keywords, I expect keywords requirements to be basically omnipresent.
But from the army comp rules leeked today it sounds like you can buy anything as a transport for anyone as long as the faction keywords match.
Thus why now I wonder if doing a imperial keyword faction let's you really mix and match units and transports. They are all the imperial faction keyword.
I'm hoping for necron ghost ark loaded with lychguard.
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Post by: Lockark
buddha wrote: Lockark wrote:Tyran wrote: Kirasu wrote:
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
No, not by a long shot.
It is incredibly disappointing, but it is nowhere as offensive as the Grey Knights slaughtering SoB to use their blood against Chaos, or anything written by C.S. Goto.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lockark wrote:
So I guess the answer is we need to see the unit entries if they limit what can be transported?
Yes, and by seeing the Trygon's Subterranean Assault, which requires the Hive Fleet and Infantry keywords, I expect keywords requirements to be basically omnipresent.
But from the army comp rules leeked today it sounds like you can buy anything as a transport for anyone as long as the faction keywords match.
Thus why now I wonder if doing a imperial keyword faction let's you really mix and match units and transports. They are all the imperial faction keyword.
I'm hoping for necron ghost ark loaded with lychguard.
Chaos faction army with demons in rhinos/land raiders.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
The Blood Angels fluff actually made me glad that I put Templars on hold (mainly due to cost as they aren't cheap to get into if you run melee builds...or their upgrade kit) and moved on to Blood Axes.
Yes, it was so bad that I don,t even want to look at the faction. You have to be the worst chapter master in history to need to be bailed out by Necrons and Daemons combined from a threat you got all of your successors to include the ones who are traitors to come fight off.
Even Guilliman showed up to bail Dante out.
Frig. For a chapter eith a tragic, glitter covered flaw, they sure suck at being as badass as actual vampires.
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Post by: Chikout
According to my poor maths the primaris starter force comes to 934 points. You are not going to have many minis in a 2000 point army. 10 intercessor marines cost 240 compared to 130 for a basically equipped tactical squad. That's quite a points difference.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
Chikout wrote:According to my poor maths the primaris starter force comes to 934 points. You are not going to have many minis in a 2000 point army. 10 intercessor marines cost 240 compared to 130 for a basically equipped tactical squad. That's quite a points difference.
Half the models but same number of wounds for the points.
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Post by: BroodSpawn
Tbh we knew the 'Nids wouldn't have won.. but to lose because of a Warp Rift, followed by the seemingly instantaneous arrival of the SL is kind of disappointing
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Post by: Tyran
Lockark wrote: But from the army comp rules leeked today it sounds like you can buy anything as a transport for anyone as long as the faction keywords match. Thus why now I wonder if doing a imperial keyword faction let's you really mix and match units and transports. They are all the imperial faction keyword.
You can buy transports for tanks based on the leaked rules, but obviously you cannot put tanks into a transport (Manta notwithstanding). For example you could make a list that is pure Leman Russ squadrons and buy a drop pod for each Leman Russ squadron, but I really doubt you can put those squadrons in drop pods. Or you could buy Rhinos for Vendettas. Hell, you could buy a Chimera for an Imperial Knight.
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Post by: Rippy
Okay, back home, piece of stinky sponge removed from daughters nose.
Thanks for the kind wishes from people 
About to update OP with the last Facebook Round-up, did I miss anything else that should be added in the last 15 pages?
45133
Post by: ClockworkZion
Rippy wrote:Okay, back home, piece of stinky sponge removed from daughters nose.
Thanks for the kind wishes from people
About to update OP with the last Facebook Round-up, did I miss anything else that should be added in the last 15 pages?
A massive slew of leaks.
77624
Post by: MattW
Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?
100884
Post by: Cephalobeard
Negative.
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
As a BA and Nid player...Jesus H, that crap almost makes Ward's fluff look decent.
Key word: Almost.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
MattW wrote:Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?
They're snap fit. And if rumors hold true, shoulder pads are already mounted onto the model, not a seperate peice so no easy chapter swapping.
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Post by: Azreal13
No, they're monopose, not snap fit.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:As a BA and Nid player...Jesus H, that crap almost makes Ward's fluff look decent.
Key word: Almost.
Considering Ward gave Sisters a solid bit of fluff of landing on a damon infested shrine world that had been lost to the warp and managing to enter the catacombs to recover lost relics and then skedattle right before the GK showed up to glass the planet...
He has his moments of good writing.
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Post by: Yodhrin
The tagline for this edition, I suspect.
changemod wrote:Does anyone see either of the following:
Bonus attack for charging
Restriction on sharing transports between factions/subfactions.
Bonus attack seems to be a weapon quality now rather than anything inherent. Someone mentioned Orks(or whatever nonsense-name they come up with; Orguulkaarianoids or something) being lacklustre without the extra charge, but IIRC Choppas, like Chainswords, do get an additional CC attack inherently, and they can fire their sidearms into the enemy unit in the Shooting phase as well, right? Or am I misreading things?
Frankly I hope that restriction has gone away, I was really jazzed to make some Termite tunnellers for my Skitarii to count-as Drop Pods before they tried to band-aid the issues with deathstars and free stuff formations by limiting superficial interactions like vehicle use.
Lord Kragan wrote:Yeah, let's be honest: this was mediocre but not as bad as you guys want to paint it. In so far I saw no mentions of multilasers nor any side invoking their spiritual liege. Nothing great, let's not kid ourselves but that looks like it's an introductory blurb of something that would actually develop more properly rather than proper "fluff" (it just says it happened doesn't expand on it).
It's more the Guy 1: "We gotta make this gak look proper serious, so Rowboat's entry seems heroic enough", Guy 2: "I know, lets kill off a Chapter Master!", Guy 3: "No, no, get this; *five Chapter Masters*.", Guy 1: "Dude...dude...dude. Dude. Perfect. Also dunk like three of them at the same time." Guy 3: "Genius." thing that makes me a bit grumpy. There's raising the stakes and there's taking the piss.
The sad thing is, the Restartes are starting to grow on me quite a lot in terms of the models, even those silly Flying Lobsters, but the fluff surrounding them is just so very very bad I don't think I could bring myself to enjoy collecting them as a force in their own right. As a basis for easier truescaling? Sure, but not on their own.
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Post by: Brother Xeones
Tyran wrote:Hell, you could buy a Chimera for an Imperial Knight.
Only if you model them as roller skates!
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Post by: ClockworkZion
From FB:
Q: Do we know if Primaris/DG are multipart or snap-fit single pose?
A: The Dark Imperium models are single-pose, but boy, are they brimming with character!
So they're monopose and snapfit. Automatically Appended Next Post: Orks are staying Orks because they already could trademark that.
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Post by: Azreal13
Technically, that reply doesn't answer the question...
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Post by: Ragnar Blackmane
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, in one of the latest scan leaks of the actual rules you can see that Gets Hot! on plasma weapons finally got nerfed. Now you actually have to go beyond the safety margins of the gun to trigger it:
Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).
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Post by: Ghaz
 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, in one of the latest scan leaks of the actual rules you can see that Gets Hot! on plasma weapons finally got nerfed. Now you actually have to go beyond the safety margins of the gun to trigger it:
Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).
The 'Get's Hot' on an all new plasma weapon works differently. There is no indication on how it works on existing plasma weapons.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
Interpetation I guess. From what I,ve seen they look like they're snap fit but others can see otherwise.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ragnar Blackmane wrote:In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, in one of the latest scan leaks of the actual rules you can see that Gets Hot! on plasma weapons finally got nerfed. Now you actually have to go beyond the safety margins of the gun to trigger it:
Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).
We HOPE it was nerfed. That might just be limited to the new Primaris Plasma guns.
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Post by: Ghaz
 ClockworkZion wrote: Interpetation I guess. From what I,ve seen they look like they're snap fit but others can see otherwise.
From your Facebook Roundup #15 ... Q: I hear they are snapfit? is that true? Hopefully stuff in the future wont be?
A: Sorry for the confusion on this one! These models are single-pose miniatures. They still need gluing together. As they are designed in a certain way, the sculptors Aly and Maxime have really gone to town on these and they look just superb.
77624
Post by: MattW
ClockworkZion wrote:MattW wrote:Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?
They're snap fit. And if rumors hold true, shoulder pads are already mounted onto the model, not a seperate peice so no easy chapter swapping.
Damn. That is a little frustrating.
I'm thinking of doing up a little scythes of the emperor force, so might try my hand at printing decals if that's what they've done with the shoulder pads. Would like to see if torsos are separate from legs, too, as that'd make painting the scythes much easier.
Edit: I'd also like to know if hands are separate/at least the same size as regular marines... thinking I might use some of the forgeworld death guard scythes if I do a scythes of the emperor army.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
 Ghaz wrote: Ragnar Blackmane wrote:In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, in one of the latest scan leaks of the actual rules you can see that Gets Hot! on plasma weapons finally got nerfed. Now you actually have to go beyond the safety margins of the gun to trigger it:
Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).
The 'Get's Hot' on an all new plasma weapon works differently. There is no indication on how it works on existing plasma weapons.
Just like all melta weapons (including the knight-scale ones) had the same re-roll damage rule, I would be shocked if the plasma incinerator's rule isn't the new "Gets Hot". I think the actual upgrade the plasma incinerator has on display is a +6" and -1 extra AP to put it in line with the bolt rifle.
It might not be a smoking gun, but I think at this point we can lay good odds on that being the new thing Imperial plasma does. With so much of 2nd Edition coming back, giving plasma back low and high power settings would make sense (and the Chaos version of that works easier in play without having to muck about with recharge tokens).
My prediction is that the new plasma lineup is:
Plasma Pistol // Range 12" // Pistol 1 // Strength 7 // AP -3 // Damage 1 // overheat on 1's as per plasma incinerator
Plasma Gun // Range 24" // Rapid Fire 1 // Strength 7 // AP -3 // Damage 1 // overheat on 1's as per plasma incinerator
Plasma Cannon // Range 36" // Heavy d3 ( d6?) // Strength 7 // AP -3 // Damage 1 // overheat on 1's as per plasma incinerator
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Post by: ClockworkZion
Ghaz wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:
Interpetation I guess. From what I,ve seen they look like they're snap fit but others can see otherwise.
From your Facebook Roundup #15 ...
Q: I hear they are snapfit? is that true? Hopefully stuff in the future wont be?
A: Sorry for the confusion on this one! These models are single-pose miniatures. They still need gluing together. As they are designed in a certain way, the sculptors Aly and Maxime have really gone to town on these and they look just superb.
Fair enough.
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Post by: rollawaythestone
SO stoked that you can advance and still fire Assault weapons. That's a cool change to make assault weapons really effective.
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Post by: daedalus
Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).
I had a conversation about that very thing with one of my Tau playing friends who thought it was silly the Imperium hadn't figured out how to make plasma stable. He thought that it was because humans stagnated right after they developed plasma weapons, but I suggested that it was intentional. Given the lack of concern for human life at the Guard level, and the protective armor that the Space Marine wear, they probably overtune their guns by standard to make them hit harder while remaining unbothered by the consequences.
I mean, it could be for any number of reasons, but mine struck me as just grimdark enough I could see it coming from the Imperium.
53623
Post by: Ronin_eX
 rollawaythestone wrote:SO stoked that you can advance and still fire Assault weapons. That's a cool change to make assault weapons really effective.
It also helps a lot of fast armies to be fast without sacrificing much firepower. Things like Eldar and Nids have a ton of assault weapons, and now they can keep up fire on the move. I love it!
May be a bit of an edge case for Orks though, hitting on 6's is probably only worth it if you'd have been out of range otherwise.
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Post by: perplexiti
Lockark wrote: Galas wrote:
If ork clans/tau step rules reflective of legion and chapter rules come back into the game, opens up more for updates for these factions.
I would be super happy if the Ork clans made a comeback, they were one of my favourite parts of old 40k.
14
Post by: Ghaz
Ronin_eX wrote:Just like all melta weapons (including the knight-scale ones) had the same re-roll damage rule, I would be shocked if the plasma incinerator's rule isn't the new "Gets Hot".
Except none of the melta weapons are 'first brand new melta weapons in 10,000 years', so your comparison really doesn't work.
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Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae
ClockworkZion wrote:MattW wrote:Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?
They're snap fit. And if rumors hold true, shoulder pads are already mounted onto the model, not a seperate peice so no easy chapter swapping.
Doesn't that directly contradict what the Warhammer 40K facebook team said? I think I recall reading a quote of them saying the Primaris marines will be compatible with other shoulder pads in particular Chapter specific molded pads.
70069
Post by: Rippy
ClockworkZion wrote: Rippy wrote:Okay, back home, piece of stinky sponge removed from daughters nose.
Thanks for the kind wishes from people
About to update OP with the last Facebook Round-up, did I miss anything else that should be added in the last 15 pages?
A massive slew of leaks.
Of course that happens when I am not able to update
Okay looks like I have an hour or so mapped out for me this afternoon.
47893
Post by: Iracundus
 daedalus wrote: Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Never made sense to me that one of the most common special weapons in the Imperium was so unreliable and deadly to the own user, in that case it would never have made it past protoype stage into a common-issue weapon (both because it kills the troopers using it as well as the expensive weapon itself). It also made melta weapons that much better in comparison, much less points, deadlier against vehicles and actually reliable. The chances you got to use your plasma gun at full range for one shot were unlikely and usually happened because you made a mistake or things went wrong (your plasma delivery unit's transport getting popped).
I had a conversation about that very thing with one of my Tau playing friends who thought it was silly the Imperium hadn't figured out how to make plasma stable. He thought that it was because humans stagnated right after they developed plasma weapons, but I suggested that it was intentional. Given the lack of concern for human life at the Guard level, and the protective armor that the Space Marine wear, they probably overtune their guns by standard to make them hit harder while remaining unbothered by the consequences.
I mean, it could be for any number of reasons, but mine struck me as just grimdark enough I could see it coming from the Imperium.
Back in the days of 2nd edition, the 2nd ed. Chaos Codex gave background about Heresy plasma weapons being the ones that overheated due to their higher power and fire rate. Post-Heresy the Adeptus Mechanicus had downgraded the power and slowed the fire rate in order to remove the risk. So in 2nd edition, Imperial plasma guns did not overheat but had to recharge for a turn after firing and had lower Strength than the old Heresy plasma guns, which the Chaos Legions had kept on using.
Now that bit got retconned after 2nd edition. Instead Imperial plasma weaponry had higher Strength than the plasma weapons of other races but had the risk of overheating, whereas the Tau and Eldar seemed to settle for safety and lower Strength.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:MattW wrote:Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?
They're snap fit. And if rumors hold true, shoulder pads are already mounted onto the model, not a seperate peice so no easy chapter swapping.
Doesn't that directly contradict what the Warhammer 40K facebook team said? I think I recall reading a quote of them saying the Primaris marines will be compatible with other shoulder pads in particular Chapter specific molded pads.
Start set =\= later versions of the Primaris.
112239
Post by: SilverAlien
Kirasu wrote: Galas wrote:Poor Tyranids... feeded to Khorne:
What a coincidence how great losses all chapters receive now that you can have Super better Primaris Marines, eh?
This is quite possibly the worst fluff gw has ever written.
It was also some of the worst written prose from GW. Tell me I wasn't the only one struggling to get through it?
Also, I'm hoping someone out there leaks the full DG datasheets soon.
45133
Post by: ClockworkZion
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:MattW wrote:Have we seen sprue pics of the primaris marines yet?
They're snap fit. And if rumors hold true, shoulder pads are already mounted onto the model, not a seperate peice so no easy chapter swapping.
Doesn't that directly contradict what the Warhammer 40K facebook team said? I think I recall reading a quote of them saying the Primaris marines will be compatible with other shoulder pads in particular Chapter specific molded pads.
Not really. The kit will be compatible, the starter won,t be.
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Post by: Aetare
Love the way they've broken down weapon restrictions on shooting. Those Hellblasters look devastating!
26170
Post by: davethepak
Regarding the gets hot...what makes everything thing the imperium couldn't make them stable?
Techno Priest: "here you go, we had to tone them down a bit, but they are safer"
Imperial Officer: "wait, I can get more damage out of them?"
Techno Priest: "Of course, but it might kill the solider"
Imperial Officer: "only the heritics will die, I want a million of them..."
The plasma of the imperium did not represent any lack of technology - it represented a lack of concern for the safety of the members of the imperium.
98659
Post by: Unusual Suspect
Anyone else notice, in the leaked Core Rules, the fact that all models shoot all weapons at the same target or different targets?
Everyone now not only can Split Fire model-by-model, but can split their weapon's fire (A squad of 3 Crisis Suit with a Flamer, a Fusion Blaster, and a Plasma Rifle could fire upon up to 9 separate targets, assuming they're in range).
Also, they defined Enemy Models: anything that is not in your army. Any unit that is in your army is a friendly model. I'm still waiting to see something about Allies...
Edit: Notable would be the detachments discussed in the General Discussion forum. Each formation seems to only have to meet its own restrictions, and the biggest restrictions on sharing things across faction will probably be in the nitty-gritty of the keywords (and the Commander/Hero abilities tied to them).
At least we know exactly how GW feels about sneaking in a Culexus Assassin for my Tau, eh?
Overwatch is before the charge, so without special rules, starting an assault from further than the range of the Flamer model, and you're effectively immune. That's an extra boost to Orks, who have a more reliable (sorta) charge range with 'ere We Go!
Assault weapon's penalties for shooting after Advancing seems like it'll hurt lower BS armies (Orks, Tau, AM, etc.) more than elites.
Pistols become either/or with other types of weaponry in terms of whether you can shoot the weapon at all, which is just... fascinating. You can dual-pistol and shoot twice or dual-weapon and shoot twice, but you can't do pistol/weapon. I might be misreading something, but that's... an oddity.
Also, the way I'm reading emergency Disembarking. Sure, you lose 1 model in 6, but you can act normally after that... like, say, during the charge phase after your transport died to Overwatch fire, so long as you have the space to place them before the transport model is removed...
The Core terrain rules seem very... bare. Pretty much one-size-fits-all. It also doesn't actually restrict what type of unit can take cover. Are the rules for terrains like forests, ruins, and the like in paid-rules only?
Lots to absorb... I'm really looking forward to seeing how they adapted some of the old favorites into this new edition.
45133
Post by: ClockworkZion
davethepak wrote:Regarding the gets hot...what makes everything thing the imperium couldn't make them stable?
Techno Priest: "here you go, we had to tone them down a bit, but they are safer"
Imperial Officer: "wait, I can get more damage out of them?"
Techno Priest: "Of course, but it might kill the solider"
Imperial Officer: "only the heritics will die, I want a million of them..."
The plasma of the imperium did not represent any lack of technology - it represented a lack of concern for the safety of the members of the imperium.
Humanity has literally quadrillions of bodies to throw into the enemy's way. Maybe even kill them too.
Human capital is but one resouce of the Imperium and not even one rated very highly in terms of value. Hell the plasma gun that overheats and melts the trooper carrying it is seen as not only more valuable than him, but the destruction of it is likely to have the trooper seen posthumously by the brass as a heretic who is lucky he died. Automatically Appended Next Post: Shooting rules were likely written the way they are so MCs and Vehicles could work as intended. Likewise pistol rules were written they way they were to prevent Marines from having an extra set of shots from their pistols on top of their bolters.
Not too many models have pistols and two other weapons. At least none that I can think of.
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Post by: Red Corsair
Crimson wrote: docdoom77 wrote:Daedalus81 wrote:Intercessors at 24. Hellblasters are 23.
Kind of odd - I can't see a reason for it. Perhaps making the unit more palatable?
I'm sure it's because you have to buy the gun for 17 points.
Yes, but would it not make more sense to have the Hellblasters at 24 and the gun at 16?
Not if their battlefield roll has advantages. For example we don't know if troops maintain the benefit of obsec like last edition, if they do and the intercessors are troops where the hellblasters as elites then once is worth more gear aside.
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Post by: Leth
I actually like the blood angels fluff. I think it needs more detail and character but I would enjoy reading that battle book.
I love how people underestimate the threat of the tyranids. Anything short of the intervention established in the fluff would have failed to stop them. It was either remove blood angels or have fluff mcguffin to keep them alive.
Also, this is totally something I could see Kbanda doing because he wants to wipe them out, not let some xenos take it from him;
101669
Post by: Formerly Wu
 Leth wrote:I actually like the blood angels fluff. I think it needs more detail and character but I would enjoy reading that battle book.
I love how people underestimate the threat of the tyranids. Anything short of the intervention established in the fluff would have failed to stop them. It was either remove blood angels or have fluff mcguffin to keep them alive.
Also, this is totally something I could see Kbanda doing because he wants to wipe them out, not let some xenos take it from him;
Yeah, I've been very critical of recent GW fluff, but this didn't strike me as particularly awful. It was just extremely abbreviated compared to the scale of the events occurring. That's a failure of the presentation rather than the events themselves.
A full book of this battle, breaking down the individuals and hour-by-hour decisions being made, would be pretty interesting.
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Post by: Aetare
 Formerly Wu wrote: Leth wrote:I actually like the blood angels fluff. I think it needs more detail and character but I would enjoy reading that battle book.
I love how people underestimate the threat of the tyranids. Anything short of the intervention established in the fluff would have failed to stop them. It was either remove blood angels or have fluff mcguffin to keep them alive.
Also, this is totally something I could see Kbanda doing because he wants to wipe them out, not let some xenos take it from him;
Yeah, I've been very critical of recent GW fluff, but this didn't strike me as particularly awful. It was just extremely abbreviated compared to the scale of the events occurring. That's a failure of the presentation rather than the events themselves.
A full book of this battle, breaking down the individuals and hour-by-hour decisions being made, would be pretty interesting.
Agreed, could make for a cool campaign. Wasn't the big issue going into 8th that BA were cut off from the Indomitus Crusade by the rift though? How did Guilliman get there and casually alleviate one of the tensest points of the latest edition of grimdark warfare?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
A service for which some of us are tremendously appreciative!
93489
Post by: Gordon Shumway
 Unusual Suspect wrote:Anyone else notice, in the leaked Core Rules, the fact that all models shoot all weapons at the same target or different targets?
Everyone now not only can Split Fire model-by-model, but can split their weapon's fire (A squad of 3 Crisis Suit with a Flamer, a Fusion Blaster, and a Plasma Rifle could fire upon up to 9 separate targets, assuming they're in range).
Also, they defined Enemy Models: anything that is not in your army. Any unit that is in your army is a friendly model. I'm still waiting to see something about Allies...
Edit: Notable would be the detachments discussed in the General Discussion forum. Each formation seems to only have to meet its own restrictions, and the biggest restrictions on sharing things across faction will probably be in the nitty-gritty of the keywords (and the Commander/Hero abilities tied to them).
At least we know exactly how GW feels about sneaking in a Culexus Assassin for my Tau, eh?
Overwatch is before the charge, so without special rules, starting an assault from further than the range of the Flamer model, and you're effectively immune. That's an extra boost to Orks, who have a more reliable (sorta) charge range with 'ere We Go!
Assault weapon's penalties for shooting after Advancing seems like it'll hurt lower BS armies (Orks, Tau, AM, etc.) more than elites.
Pistols become either/or with other types of weaponry in terms of whether you can shoot the weapon at all, which is just... fascinating. You can dual-pistol and shoot twice or dual-weapon and shoot twice, but you can't do pistol/weapon. I might be misreading something, but that's... an oddity.
Also, the way I'm reading emergency Disembarking. Sure, you lose 1 model in 6, but you can act normally after that... like, say, during the charge phase after your transport died to Overwatch fire, so long as you have the space to place them before the transport model is removed...
The Core terrain rules seem very... bare. Pretty much one-size-fits-all. It also doesn't actually restrict what type of unit can take cover. Are the rules for terrains like forests, ruins, and the like in paid-rules only?
Lots to absorb... I'm really looking forward to seeing how they adapted some of the old favorites into this new edition.
That flamer/overwatch charge rule is interesting. Could see moving a unit further away before charging just to avoid the overwatch.
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Post by: Andarus
 Aetare wrote: Formerly Wu wrote: Leth wrote:I actually like the blood angels fluff. I think it needs more detail and character but I would enjoy reading that battle book.
I love how people underestimate the threat of the tyranids. Anything short of the intervention established in the fluff would have failed to stop them. It was either remove blood angels or have fluff mcguffin to keep them alive.
Also, this is totally something I could see Kbanda doing because he wants to wipe them out, not let some xenos take it from him;
Yeah, I've been very critical of recent GW fluff, but this didn't strike me as particularly awful. It was just extremely abbreviated compared to the scale of the events occurring. That's a failure of the presentation rather than the events themselves.
A full book of this battle, breaking down the individuals and hour-by-hour decisions being made, would be pretty interesting.
Agreed, could make for a cool campaign. Wasn't the big issue going into 8th that BA were cut off from the Indomitus Crusade by the rift though? How did Guilliman get there and casually alleviate one of the tensest points of the latest edition of grimdark warfare?
Plus its Ka'Banda (sp?) and there is some serious history involved between it and the Blood Angels
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Post by: Alpharius
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:How do you think the various Chapters would react to the idea of tampering with Geneseed trying to "improve" on the Emperor's design and make better Space Marines?
I think my Chapter the Raven Guard would be highly sceptical if not outright hostile to the idea of Primaris Space Marines, due to the disastrous failure of their own Primarch Corvus Corax to create his own improved Space Marines as a shortcut to rebuilding his Legion in the Horus Heresy.
I doubt it, since we - and they - now know that the 'disastrous failure' was all due to the nefarious interference of those meddling kids the Alpha Legion, they'll know it can probably work just fine, and will gladly accept the Primaris Marines with open arms.
Unless Corax is one of the soon to be returning Primarchs, maybe!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
So, the Space Wolves got depleted heavily when Magus attacked, and the Blood Angels just had their collective asses handed to them... all just in time to get new minatures reinforcements that replace the old miniatures casualties. How convenient! And you can just get out anywhere on a transport? *looks at Eldar Falcon* So as long as my Banshees are within 3" of those front prongs, they're good to go? Lord Kragan wrote:Interestingly. People were right, there's smaller SH detachments with no benefits. Hell, there's a detachment that DEDUCES COMMAND POINTS! 
This is the right way to do FOC manipulation. The old system of "Give up X to gain Y" never worked because if you were never going to use X then you were essentially gaining Y for no drawback. This is you spending a resource (Command Points) to take extra types of units.
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Post by: Zustiur
 H.B.M.C. wrote:*looks at Eldar Falcon*
So as long as my Banshees are within 3" of those front prongs, they're good to go?
I believe so yes. Much like 3rd edition before the trial vehicle rules (it was 2" back then and you could still disembark after the vehicle moved).
Everything old is new again. Automatically Appended Next Post: The rules may be simple but there's an entire gulf of differences to take in. For instance, I just realized you can charge after firing rapid fire and heavy weapons.
This makes me more hopeful that storm bolters will finally be rapid fire 2.
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Post by: davethepak
You don't need storm bolters to be rapid fire - assault weapons can be fired AFTER you advance.....
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Post by: tetrisphreak
davethepak wrote:You don't need storm bolters to be rapid fire - assault weapons can be fired AFTER you advance.....
But without a special rule like genestealers, you can't advance and charge.
Tactical terminators popping 4 shots each then charging with powerfists that swing first - maybe a worthwhile pick finally.
Has anyone picked up that there's no restriction from shooting at one unit (or many) then charging a unit that wasn't even a shooting target? 
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Post by: MangoMadness
Tyran wrote:
It is incredibly disappointing, but it is nowhere as offensive as the Grey Knights slaughtering SoB to use their blood against Chaos, or anything written by C.S. Goto.
Or the James Swallow rubbish
Here is a newly released pic of the 5 chapter masters on Baal before their demise at the hands of the nids
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Post by: rollawaythestone
That's clearly a Lord of Change.
81208
Post by: Median Trace
 Grimskul wrote:Looks like the Blood Angels got BAAL'ed out of their predicament.
>.>
I'll let myself out.
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Have an Exalt!
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Post by: Neronoxx
 MangoMadness wrote:Tyran wrote:
It is incredibly disappointing, but it is nowhere as offensive as the Grey Knights slaughtering SoB to use their blood against Chaos, or anything written by C.S. Goto.
Or the James Swallow rubbish
Here is a newly released pic of the 5 chapter masters on Baal before their demise at the hands of the nids
I consistently see the failure to associate the butt-kicking of a faction with the sheer power or strength of the opposing faction as a sort of really dumb bandwagon that people jump on to seem cool - like the "old fluff vs new fluff" myth and the Matt Ward hate-train.
In the Shield of Baal campaign, Dante specifically states that the losses incurres by the hive fleet were only a set back, and they wouldn't be able to hold the back. Not sure what kind of battle you were waiting for, but it was the wrong one.
Tldr; in my humble opinion, some of the members of this forum need to get over yourselves. You're letting herd mentality get in the way of your enjoyment.
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Post by: Thargrim
So the Blood Angels are cooked, Ultramarines are doing fine. Wonder what will happen to the dark angels and other chapters...
The leaked fluff bit didn't strike me as too bad, i've seen far worse from GW. I do like me a tragic epic struggle...but there isn't enough info for me to judge 100% yet. I'm just glad Sanguinius didn't save the day....bringing him back would cheapen his sacrifice and the whole conclusion of the heresy on the battleship.
Rules-wise...now that i've seen the rules for the interceptors I like them a lot more. Unfortunately my birthday is on june 8th and i'm not sure i'll be able to take advantage of it considering the new edition drops later...and less than 3 days before jury duty starts....oh the pain.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
I like the new get's hot change. Makes plasma a lot more reliable base, or you can overcharge it but it is a lot riskier (same with tau ion weapons). Interesting though is that gets hot now ignores armor and invul from the sounds of it. maybe even FNP, since it is "slain" instead of wounded.
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Post by: Fezza213
 MajorWesJanson wrote:I like the new get's hot change. Makes plasma a lot more reliable base, or you can overcharge it but it is a lot riskier (same with tau ion weapons). Interesting though is that gets hot now ignores armor and invul from the sounds of it. maybe even FNP, since it is "slain" instead of wounded.
Ah but what if that is only for the newly built primaris weaponry? Cawl managed to solve the overheating problem a little for them but it has not been run out to everyone else. Until we see other plasma weapons I wouldnt guarantee that.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
BoomWolf wrote:Can you not see the two power cells blobs right next to the handle who are IDENTICAL to the ones on tau plasma rifles, that no imperial weapon ever had?
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Fezza213 wrote: MajorWesJanson wrote:I like the new get's hot change. Makes plasma a lot more reliable base, or you can overcharge it but it is a lot riskier (same with tau ion weapons). Interesting though is that gets hot now ignores armor and invul from the sounds of it. maybe even FNP, since it is "slain" instead of wounded.
Ah but what if that is only for the newly built primaris weaponry? Cawl managed to solve the overheating problem a little for them but it has not been run out to everyone else. Until we see other plasma weapons I wouldnt guarantee that.
That's what I am afraid of. And if regular Plasmaguns can't do the overcharge of a Plasma Incinerator, I won't be taking them. Without the ability to save against the Gets Hot, I am just not seeing how they are worth even one point.
49827
Post by: MajorWesJanson
casvalremdeikun wrote:Fezza213 wrote: MajorWesJanson wrote:I like the new get's hot change. Makes plasma a lot more reliable base, or you can overcharge it but it is a lot riskier (same with tau ion weapons). Interesting though is that gets hot now ignores armor and invul from the sounds of it. maybe even FNP, since it is "slain" instead of wounded.
Ah but what if that is only for the newly built primaris weaponry? Cawl managed to solve the overheating problem a little for them but it has not been run out to everyone else. Until we see other plasma weapons I wouldnt guarantee that.
That's what I am afraid of. And if regular Plasmaguns can't do the overcharge of a Plasma Incinerator, I won't be taking them. Without the ability to save against the Gets Hot, I am just not seeing how they are worth even one point.
Bolt Rifles are +6" and -1 AP compared to Bolters, so it makes sense that Plasma Incinerators are the same compared to plasma, which would put Plasma at 24" RF1 S7 AP -3 D1 with the overcharge ability.
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Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis
Do we have any word yet about storm bolters? How good they are is gonna make or break Tactical Terminators.
199
Post by: Crimson Devil
Neronoxx wrote: MangoMadness wrote:Tyran wrote:
It is incredibly disappointing, but it is nowhere as offensive as the Grey Knights slaughtering SoB to use their blood against Chaos, or anything written by C.S. Goto.
Or the James Swallow rubbish
Here is a newly released pic of the 5 chapter masters on Baal before their demise at the hands of the nids
I consistently see the failure to associate the butt-kicking of a faction with the sheer power or strength of the opposing faction as a sort of really dumb bandwagon that people jump on to seem cool - like the "old fluff vs new fluff" myth and the Matt Ward hate-train.
In the Shield of Baal campaign, Dante specifically states that the losses incurres by the hive fleet were only a set back, and they wouldn't be able to hold the back. Not sure what kind of battle you were waiting for, but it was the wrong one.
Tldr; in my humble opinion, some of the members of this forum need to get over yourselves. You're letting herd mentality get in the way of your enjoyment.
I think it has more to do with the Reader already having an established bias towards the faction they play. It doesn't matter what point of view the Author intended. The Reader wants their faction to be triumphant regardless whether they are the protagonists or not.
18249
Post by: Charax
Plasma power settings is another throwback to 2nd edition, Heavy Plasma Guns (Now Plasma Cannons) had a low energy Strength 7 D4 damage -2 save setting and a Maximum power S10 D10 damage -6 save setting that required a turn to recharge
This was back when all other plasma weapons needed to recharge for a turn after use, except Chaos, who had access to the riskier "Mk1" Plasma weapons - which had sustained fire and overheated
When 3rd was released, they did away with this concept and effectively made all Plasma guns and Pistols the dangerous "Mk1" type - rapid fire, overheat, no turn to recharge
so really, "safe" Imperial plasma weaponry was the norm up until 3rd. the dangerous, overheating Plasma weapons were supposed to have been declared Fabrus Excommunicata and banned from production.
All Cawl did is take the safe Plasma weaponry and apply the variable settings of the old Plasma Cannon
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Post by: ShaneHM
Unusual Suspect wrote:
Assault weapon's penalties for shooting after Advancing seems like it'll hurt lower BS armies (Orks, Tau, AM, etc.) more than elites.
Well, my 60 Shoota Boyz are pretty stoked that they get to run and shoot now with Shootas and Big Shootas, not to mention that Kombi-Skorcha on the Nob. I'm thinking it might be time to give Rokkits to the Slugga Boyz as well.
Also, Deff Koptas, Ork Bikes, Trukks, Battlewagons, Deff Dreads, Killa Kanz. They can all move the extra D6" and still spray bullets/rokkits/fire/scrap everywhere in proper Orky fashion.
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Post by: SirDigby
Arrrr, that's be no Beast of Nurgle.
That be a thing far more terrible.
Arrrrr.
That be Dinoslugs.
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Post by: nagash42
That big great unclean one just above the primaris captain looks like the Glotkin sans the brothers on top.
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Post by: aka_mythos
 Alpharius wrote: Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:How do you think the various Chapters would react to the idea of tampering with Geneseed trying to "improve" on the Emperor's design and make better Space Marines?
I think my Chapter the Raven Guard would be highly sceptical if not outright hostile to the idea of Primaris Space Marines, due to the disastrous failure of their own Primarch Corvus Corax to create his own improved Space Marines as a shortcut to rebuilding his Legion in the Horus Heresy.
I doubt it, since we - and they - now know that the 'disastrous failure' was all due to the nefarious interference of those meddling kids the Alpha Legion, they'll know it can probably work just fine, and will gladly accept the Primaris Marines with open arms.
Unless Corax is one of the soon to be returning Primarchs, maybe!
Let's also not forget Robute met with the Emperor and met with him for a day. He declared him Lord Commander of the Imperium and it seems very likely the Emperor gave him the last bits of knowledge that had eluded Cawl and were necessary for the completion of the Primaris marines. While some chapters might not accept the Primaris into their ranks, they aren't likely going to betray the Emperor's will, unless they were already predisposed to betraying it.
I'd speculate, the genetech knowledge the Emperor shared with Corax after the Heresy t may have been pieced together by Cawl and Guiliman to start work on the Primaris, and the Emperor only upon meeting with Guiliman now, may have shared with him enough more to complete the Primaris.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Odd how the plasma thing is another overly simplistic 'model is removed' rule that would seem to kill to 1 wound Guardsmen and 6 wound Captains with a single bad roll. Weird how GW went to all the trouble of changing the AP system and adding Damage to weapons then went and turned vehicles and plasma weapons exploding into vortex grenades that kill you instantly.
Seems so incongruous.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
H.B.M.C. wrote:Odd how the plasma thing is another overly simplistic 'model is removed' rule that would seem to kill to 1 wound Guardsmen and 6 wound Captains with a single bad roll. Weird how GW went to all the trouble of changing the AP system and adding Damage to weapons then went and turned vehicles and plasma weapons exploding into vortex grenades that kill you instantly.
Seems so incongruous.
This is a world where you can be shot right through area terrain of any size with no penalty until you actually touch it.
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
H.B.M.C. wrote:Odd how the plasma thing is another overly simplistic 'model is removed' rule that would seem to kill to 1 wound Guardsmen and 6 wound Captains with a single bad roll. Weird how GW went to all the trouble of changing the AP system and adding Damage to weapons then went and turned vehicles and plasma weapons exploding into vortex grenades that kill you instantly.
Seems so incongruous.
The alternative (inflicting hits on the model) could lead to weapons magically reconstructing out of thin air because the model passed the save, or models running around the battlefield sans weapon.
The second option would be cool in a smaller scale game, but I don't think GW cares about the minutiae of "battlefield conditions simulation" to that extent. Save that for Necromunda.
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Post by: stonehorse
Just finished reading the core rules from the leak. They seem quite solid, perils of the warp sounds like it has the potential to be nasty. In a lot of ways it has a strong 3rd edition vibe, this could be due to a lot of rd edition artwork being used in the little side boxes. I think it is the now sadly gone Wayne England artwork.
I like the whole Plasma weapon malfunction and vehicle explosion removing models not just causing wounds. For the plasma weapon it makes sense as it is so close to the user that having it explode is going to take them out with it, or cause enough damage to render them out of the battle. Same is true for a vehicle going up in smoke.
The Baal background is spank, utterly spank.
So a Space Marine Chapter can lose their Homeworld system to a rival Space Marine Chapter. Space Wolves lost the Fenris system to the Thousand Sons. However a system can not fall due to a Xenos race who have such numbers they blot out the stars and the warp, plus have a long established history of reducing planets, systems, and galaxies to barren wastes.
It would have been interesting to have the Blood Angels lose, but needing to retreat to help the new crusade, with the entire Chapter becoming fleet based similar to the Black Templars.
How can the planet be rebuilt after coming so close to being reduced to a waste. The consumption of a planets ecosystem happens all the way through a Tyranid invasion. As it got so far along the planet should be abandoned as it seems unable to sustain life, never mind a Space Marine Chapter.
As a Tyranid player I would like to see the Tyranids be able to win a major battle at least once, the galaxy is big enough to afford the Tyranids a major victory without destroying the background... which is oddly enough something that Chaos are allowed to do, they can have a major victory that alters the background and that is acceptable.
I guess this really is the edition where GW have made it painfully obvious that they don't care about the Xenos races.
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Post by: Matt.Kingsley
We do have knowledge that being 25% Obscured also gives a cover save. (Mentioned as being a non-Advanced rule when they talked about Stronghold Assault and once again in Cities of Death iirc.)
I'm interested to see WHERE that is mentioned though, as it isn't on any of the leaked pages as far as I can see...
63064
Post by: BoomWolf
Thargrim wrote:So the Blood Angels are cooked, Ultramarines are doing fine. Wonder what will happen to the dark angels and other chapters...
Well, white scars and ravenguard took quite a beating in damocles, the woofs got really pummeled in fenris, and the dark angles also took some losses there.
The IF and IH didn't get into much trouble lately IIRC.
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Post by: NivlacSupreme
The Imperial Fists have been killed off enough. Literally to the last man.
13225
Post by: Bottle
I wonder how the Primaris would look with a MKVIII helmet? I might mix and match some of the helmets if they are compatible. I like my Soace Marines to be a bit more haphazard and unique like in Blanche Art.
87618
Post by: kodos
 Matt.Kingsley wrote:We do have knowledge that being 25% Obscured also gives a cover save. (Mentioned as being a non-Advanced rule when they talked about Stronghold Assault and once again in Cities of Death iirc.)
I'm interested to see WHERE that is mentioned though, as it isn't on any of the leaked pages as far as I can see...
I guess in one of the optional rule sets and only to be used in City of Death games
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Post by: Justyn
So a Space Marine Chapter can lose their Homeworld system to a rival Space Marine Chapter. Space Wolves lost the Fenris system to the Thousand Sons. However a system can not fall due to a Xenos race who have such numbers they blot out the stars and the warp, plus have a long established history of reducing planets, systems, and galaxies to barren wastes.
The Fenris system was not lost to the Thousand sons. Midguardia was destroyed. Other planets were damaged but are recovering. Its essentially the same story. Massive damage but no long term loss.
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Post by: NivlacSupreme
With the supreme command detachment I could just run all 10 Ultramarines Captains and some vets/Honor Guard to get in the way.
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Post by: stonehorse
Justyn wrote:
So a Space Marine Chapter can lose their Homeworld system to a rival Space Marine Chapter. Space Wolves lost the Fenris system to the Thousand Sons. However a system can not fall due to a Xenos race who have such numbers they blot out the stars and the warp, plus have a long established history of reducing planets, systems, and galaxies to barren wastes.
The Fenris system was not lost to the Thousand sons. Midguardia was destroyed. Other planets were damaged but are recovering. Its essentially the same story. Massive damage but no long term loss.
I'm pretty sure that the Fenris planet was rendered uninhabitable at the end of the story, with the population having to be 'taken' by the Inquisition due to daemonic infestation. The remains of the Space Wolves had to flee as they were called into help fight against the 13th Black Crusade.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
 stonehorse wrote:As a Tyranid player I would like to see the Tyranids be able to win a major battle at least once, the galaxy is big enough to afford the Tyranids a major victory without destroying the background... which is oddly enough something that Chaos are allowed to do, they can have a major victory that alters the background and that is acceptable..
Baby steps, baby steps. Remember, Chaos may get to wreck the place up this time, but this is the first major fluff shakeup since the end of Rogue Trader. Chaos have been the whipping boy for failure for most of the game's life. Have we so soon forgotten the  thrown at Abaddon? How many Black Crusades did he botch? How many failed retries on that 13th one? This victory for Chaos has been a long time coming. Chaos were becoming like a Dr. Who villain, made toothless after so many defeats. They needed all this to be a credible threat again.
And besides, Nids got to change the setting and won a major battle in recent memory. Hell one of the biggest changes since 2nd it was. They're the reason I can't have a kick squat army in the new edition after all. Chaos wish they had it that good. Chaos has been trying to discontinue the marine line for 30 years and still haven't succeeded.
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Post by: axisofentropy
Who's going to WarhammerFest today to get us more pictures?
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Post by: ShaneHM
Difficult Terrain isn't a thing anymore then.
Also, it seems flyers can be assaulted now (though an assault restriction could be included in their individual unit rules, of course).
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Post by: stonehorse
Ronin_eX wrote: stonehorse wrote:As a Tyranid player I would like to see the Tyranids be able to win a major battle at least once, the galaxy is big enough to afford the Tyranids a major victory without destroying the background... which is oddly enough something that Chaos are allowed to do, they can have a major victory that alters the background and that is acceptable..
Baby steps, baby steps. Remember, Chaos may get to wreck the place up this time, but this is the first major fluff shakeup since the end of Rogue Trader. Chaos have been the whipping boy for failure for most of the game's life. Have we so soon forgotten the thrown at Abaddon? How many Black Crusades did he botch? How many failed retries on that 13th one? This victory for Chaos has been a long time coming. Chaos were becoming like a Dr. Who villain, made toothless after so many defeats. They needed all this to be a credible threat again.
And besides, Nids got to change the setting and won a major battle in recent memory. Hell one of the biggest changes since 2nd it was. They're the reason I can't have a kick squat army in the new edition after all. Chaos wish they had it that good. Chaos has been trying to discontinue the marine line for 30 years and still haven't succeeded.
Haha, good point.
I still laugh that Tyranids were the design studios reason for doing away with Squats, when deep down we all know it was because at the time they had no idea how to redesign them going from 2nd to 3rd edition. I think the story was they got sick of being asked when Squats were coming back, so they just said Tyranids ate them all, and since then it has entered the communities cannon.
Just noticed in the leaked rules I can't see if there is a penalty for taking a force that has negative command point, one of the formations is comprised of a single choice with no restrictions, but has a -1 Command Point. Seems a bit odd.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
As a general rule in the basic book? Looks that way.
But considering GW have been dropping hints at terrain rules beyond what we have in the basic rules? I wouldn't discount it being in there entirely just yet.
Remember the talk of keyworded terrain that provides benefits to only some models, the special additional terrain rules for CoD stuff? That's all outside the basic rules, and my guess is they kept it out to make the basic game run in a simple manner. But we know from GW's own articles that what we're seeing in that small terrain blurb in the intro rules isn't the whole story either.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 His Master's Voice wrote:The alternative (inflicting hits on the model) could lead to weapons magically reconstructing out of thin air because the model passed the save, or models running around the battlefield sans weapon.
That's a false dilemma if ever I saw one. And you're talking about fluff, not rules.
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Post by: stonehorse
H.B.M.C. wrote: His Master's Voice wrote:The alternative (inflicting hits on the model) could lead to weapons magically reconstructing out of thin air because the model passed the save, or models running around the battlefield sans weapon.
That's a false dilemma if ever I saw one.
And you're talking about fluff, not rules.
I guess it could have been resolved that the model suffers a Mortal Wound. That way models with multiple wounds could have survived where as single wound models will simply evaporate. Only issue is that it could mean that wounds would have been floating around on different models.
The new way may seem more punishing, but it is elegant and stops a whole boat load of complications from popping up.
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Post by: Iracundus
stonehorse wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote: His Master's Voice wrote:The alternative (inflicting hits on the model) could lead to weapons magically reconstructing out of thin air because the model passed the save, or models running around the battlefield sans weapon.
That's a false dilemma if ever I saw one.
And you're talking about fluff, not rules.
I guess it could have been resolved that the model suffers a Mortal Wound. That way models with multiple wounds could have survived where as single wound models will simply evaporate. Only issue is that it could mean that wounds would have been floating around on different models.
The new way may seem more punishing, but it is elegant and stops a whole boat load of complications from popping up.
In 2nd edition, the Mk1 plasma weapons were the ones that had the risk of overheating, but not all overheats and leaks were equally serious. There was another roll determining severity of the hit the model had to save against. The more minor leaks did not destroy the weapon.
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Post by: Latro_
Aux detachment is interesting, if you care not for cmd points then unbound is like.... the norm now.
Interesting how no one has really raged against that, it was like 'pffff' when unbound was a thing in the last edition... years of broken formations have obv made folks warm to the idea of meh use what ye like!
The transports thing is interesting with those formations... i can just do an army of 5 chaos lords in rhinos if they are going up to 6 wounds and able to tool them up then they are not that different from 5 normal dudes!
Rules to me actually look pretty solid, i was sitting there in bed reading em and thinking how they'd play out in a game compared to now and its like.... its streamlined but in my head it would still play out the same all the basic elements are there.
Kinda looks like its confirmed a battle cannon is d6 shots and you roll to hit with each one.
Also grenades don't look like they do diddly squat in combat now. We have seems the krak grenades profile and nothing in the core rules mentions using them in combat... perhaps there might be something in the advanced rules...
Link to keep an eye on today:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/WarhammerFest?src=hash
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/27/warhammer-fest-live-blog/
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Post by: kestral
Tyran wrote: Lockark wrote:
But from the army comp rules leeked today it sounds like you can buy anything as a transport for anyone as long as the faction keywords match.
Thus why now I wonder if doing a imperial keyword faction let's you really mix and match units and transports. They are all the imperial faction keyword.
You can buy transports for tanks based on the leaked rules, but obviously you cannot put tanks into a transport (Manta notwithstanding).
For example you could make a list that is pure Leman Russ squadrons and buy a drop pod for each Leman Russ squadron, but I really doubt you can put those squadrons in drop pods.
Or you could buy Rhinos for Vendettas.
Hell, you could buy a Chimera for an Imperial Knight.
Why can't I put tanks in a drop pod? We keep hearing how "Realism doesn't matter, because there are SPACE ELVES". Is 12 Leman Russes coming out of a drop pod really any worse than MIND BULLETS?
I think they probably have this locked down using Key words, so we won't have to worry about drop Tanks. That said, there isn't any "bulky" key word, which probably means any infantry can ride in any same army transport and takes up one spot. So 10 Adeptus Restarties can tetris into a Rhino most likely. While people have pointed out that there are Armor key words, you would have cover every possibility with them on the data sheet (can carry X of Y) and that sounds unlikely. 12 Ogryn in a Chimera?
I think it is good that they let you pick the casualties in a transport explosion - after all you get to do that in shooting, and it would be odd to have mechanics suddenly change when casualties are inflicted another way. That shows a pleasing level of internal consistency. I am less pleased that we will have the "Chimera disappears, 10 Ogryn left standing in it's footprint" effect. But then, I'm one of those sad, sad "Realism" guys.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
The assault grenades thing was nonsense anyway. A rubbish abstraction in my view. If it's gone I won't miss it, and as it affected Initiative order and there's no I stat now can only imagine it is gone.
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Post by: kestral
JohnnyHell wrote:The assault grenades thing was nonsense anyway. A rubbish abstraction in my view. If it's gone I won't miss it, and as it affected Initiative order and there's no I stat now can only imagine it is gone.
I agree. Grenades having a special attack against people in cover instead is one of the better rules they've come up with, though that is in the special scenario rules.
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Post by: Agiel
I suppose now with those changes to Knights in close-combat keeping those things tied down with a Solitaire is no longer an option?
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Post by: Rippy
Okay finally caught up on all the leaks.
I am disapointed that units still don't move the charge distance if they don't roll the required distance. I had it in my head that would be the case (unless I read it wrong).
Also very interesting that assault weapons can still be shot after advancing, very cool! I expect to see quite a few dedicated assault units being able charge after advancing as well.
Hopefully we see an article soon with some Death Guard stats from starter box!
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Post by: Zustiur
stonehorse wrote:
I still laugh that Tyranids were the design studios reason for doing away with Squats, when deep down we all know it was because at the time they had no idea how to redesign them going from 2nd to 3rd edition. I think the story was they got sick of being asked when Squats were coming back, so they just said Tyranids ate them all, and since then it has entered the communities cannon.
If I'm not mistaken, the Squats are from the core worlds- as in near the core of the galaxy. Last time I looked the 'nids hadn't ever got that far...
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
The Baal fluff looks bad because the deux ex machina seems extremely, extremely forced and predictable. That, along with the “5 Chapter Masters died, so it's a big deal, but we are not telling you which”…
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Post by: Rippy
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:The Baal fluff looks bad because the deux ex machina seems extremely, extremely forced and predictable. That, along with the “5 Chapter Masters died, so it's a big deal, but we are not telling you which”…
I am sure it will be expanded upon in further fluff books.
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Post by: stonehorse
Zustiur wrote: stonehorse wrote:
I still laugh that Tyranids were the design studios reason for doing away with Squats, when deep down we all know it was because at the time they had no idea how to redesign them going from 2nd to 3rd edition. I think the story was they got sick of being asked when Squats were coming back, so they just said Tyranids ate them all, and since then it has entered the communities cannon.
If I'm not mistaken, the Squats are from the core worlds- as in near the core of the galaxy. Last time I looked the 'nids hadn't ever got that far...
Which makes it all the funnier. Tyranids advanced into the core of the galaxy, ate all the Squats, then went back to the eastern fringe of the galaxy as if nothing had happened. It is because GW want nothing more to do with Squats, so just tried to brush them under the carpet.
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Post by: Charax
I think the official reasoning is that they came in from under the galactic plane (Because space is 3D, you know) and hit the homeworlds that way
Personally I think Baal should have been saved by the arrival of long-lost technologically advanced Abhumans with a grudge against Tyranids....would have been poetic vengeance, and wouldnt necessarily require their re-introduction as a full playable race
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Post by: Vorian
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:The Baal fluff looks bad because the deux ex machina seems extremely, extremely forced and predictable. That, along with the “5 Chapter Masters died, so it's a big deal, but we are not telling you which”…
It's not Deus ex Mechanica - it's the guys going round breaking sieges and saving desperate situations.
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Post by: Crimson
That's not all the profiles, still no Lieutenants or the Ancient... :(
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Post by: Bottle
The profiles look awesome. The Bloat Drone is much more tanky than I thought with T7 W10!
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Post by: FunJohn
Is that the first time we see the new Plasmagun? I read yesterday people where discussing if it would get two modes aswell
I saw the Slain keyword with the transports as well, so that just means remove the model, no armor save?
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Post by: JohnnyHell
My Scions and Guard are gonna love the new non-overheating Plasma Guns, or overcharge them for a suicide volley. Oh yusss.
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Post by: Rippy
That Lord of Contagion will be very similar to Typhus I think, minus the psyker!
Those stats are looking great on Death Guard, after a gak morning at hospital, great to have this news flowing in!!
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Post by: ImAGeek
The Plague Marine data sheet has weapons that aren't in the starter, so looks like the other data sheets are the full ones, not just starter set only ones.
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Post by: Rippy
Nooo Plague Marines lost their pistol!
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Post by: Bottle
The Pox Walkers seem much more like Plague Zombies than Chaos Cultists. I'm going to sell on my Death Guard from the starter but will keep these as I love the models and they will be fun to use in Necromunda/SW:A as Plague Zombies!
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
Woah. WOAH.
Plague Champion can take a Power Fist AND a Plasma Gun?!
....TIME TO CRACK OUT THE PLASMA GUNS.
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Post by: Rippy
Plasma gun is awesome! Choose the safe option, or gamble with a 1 in 6 chance of guaranteed damage!
Looks like that is standard of all plasma guns.
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Post by: Charax
Yep, so much for the Death Guard being trained and equipped to use both Bolter & BP/ CCW
because hey, it's not like we're imperials or anything, why would we get rules that match our background?
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Post by: Rippy
Bottle wrote:The Pox Walkers seem much more like Plague Zombies than Chaos Cultists. I'm going to sell on my Death Guard from the starter but will keep these as I love the models and they will be fun to use in Necromunda/ SW:A as Plague Zombies!
I think you will find that they are 100% Plague Zombies, just with updated names due to copyright (just like T'au, Drukhari etc)
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Post by: Thommy H
Poxwalkers get a 7+ save! Which means (presumably) no save normally, but they do benefit from bonuses like cover, auras, etc. Interesting (and elegant) way of handling things imo.
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Post by: Rippy
Charax wrote:
Yep, so much for the Death Guard being trained and equipped to use both Bolter & BP/ CCW
because hey, it's not like we're imperials or anything, why would we get rules that match our background?
Meh, the balance part will always make stuff like this not valid, it's more annoying as half of my PMs have knives/bolt pistols in their hands :(
Won't remodel them either, as fluff wise they would have pistols Automatically Appended Next Post: Thommy H wrote:Poxwalkers get a 7+ save! Which means (presumably) no save normally, but they do benefit from bonuses like cover, auras, etc. Interesting (and elegant) way of handling things imo.
Well noticed, that is a very cool way of handling things like cover saves etc.
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Post by: changemod
Thommy H wrote:Poxwalkers get a 7+ save! Which means (presumably) no save normally, but they do benefit from bonuses like cover, auras, etc. Interesting (and elegant) way of handling things imo.
I mean, just saying save bonuses grant a 6+ if you don't have one would also be elegant...
Also yeah plasma is 1 damage normally, that's a little odd but I guess it's a source of good rend that can scratch anything.
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Post by: Rippy
changemod wrote:Thommy H wrote:Poxwalkers get a 7+ save! Which means (presumably) no save normally, but they do benefit from bonuses like cover, auras, etc. Interesting (and elegant) way of handling things imo.
I mean, just saying save bonuses grant a 6+ if you don't have one would also be elegant... Also yeah plasma is 1 damage normally, that's a little odd but I guess it's a source of good rend that can scratch anything.
They don't have a 6+ though. They get no save unless they get a cover save that gives at least +1 to save.
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Post by: changemod
Rippy wrote:changemod wrote:Thommy H wrote:Poxwalkers get a 7+ save! Which means (presumably) no save normally, but they do benefit from bonuses like cover, auras, etc. Interesting (and elegant) way of handling things imo.
I mean, just saying save bonuses grant a 6+ if you don't have one would also be elegant...
Also yeah plasma is 1 damage normally, that's a little odd but I guess it's a source of good rend that can scratch anything.
They don't have a 6+ though. They get no save unless they get a cover save that gives at least +1 to save.
That's what I said, yes?
Including a clarification in the save stats that bonuses grant you a save if you don't have one would serve the same purpose as a 7+ save.
Hell would lead to less people asking "Why does my model have a 7+ save?" Or "How do I roll a 7+ save?"
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Post by: Latro_
move 4" on the poxwalkers.... ouch
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Post by: Rippy
They are pretty strong as is. Load them up in a Land Raider
Same 4" on Lord of Contagion.
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Post by: Latro_
HH news
1
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Post by: changemod
Rippy wrote:
They are pretty strong as is. Load them up in a Land Raider
Same 4" on Lord of Contagion.
I don't think many people are going to spend a land raider on 10 (reskinned) plague zombies.
Given that they have such a short move and no ranged profile, I see them limited to basically backfield screening.
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Post by: Daedalus81
Hmm does that terminator armor mean all termies will have a 4+ stock invuln?
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Post by: Nevelon
Daedalus81 wrote:Hmm does that terminator armor mean all termies will have a 4+ stock invuln?
It’s called out as capheract TDA, which is the version that’s S&P with a 4++ now. So I would not make that assumption.
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Post by: Rippy
changemod wrote: Rippy wrote: They are pretty strong as is. Load them up in a Land Raider Same 4" on Lord of Contagion.
I don't think many people are going to spend a land raider on 10 (reskinned) plague zombies. Given that they have such a short move and no ranged profile, I see them limited to basically backfield screening.
I was kind of joking, but I wouldn't be surprised if Land Raiders could hold more transport capacity now. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Nevelon wrote:Daedalus81 wrote:Hmm does that terminator armor mean all termies will have a 4+ stock invuln?
It’s called out as capheract TDA, which is the version that’s S&P with a 4++ now. So I would not make that assumption.
Cataphractii? It appears to give a 4++ though halves your advance roll.
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Post by: Relapse
I could see running a couple of plague drones into the middle of an army just to get them to blow up and take a bunch with them.
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Post by: Coyote81
Relapse wrote:I could see running a couple of plague drones into the middle of an army just to get them to blow up and take a bunch with them.
Especially need against enemy units that are normally tough to put wounds on.
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Post by: NivlacSupreme
Relapse wrote:I could see running a couple of plague drones into the middle of an army just to get them to blow up and take a bunch with them.
Park two or three next to an HQ. Their options are take the shots or kill it and be half killed.
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Post by: changemod
Relapse wrote:I could see running a couple of plague drones into the middle of an army just to get them to blow up and take a bunch with them.
50% chance of a single mortal wound per unit in range.
It's a nice bit of spite, but it's not strong enough to be a main goal.
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Post by: kronk
This is excellent news. I did not think they would do it.
Bravo.
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Post by: Rippy
changemod wrote:Relapse wrote:I could see running a couple of plague drones into the middle of an army just to get them to blow up and take a bunch with them.
50% chance of a single mortal wound per unit in range.
It's a nice bit of spite, but it's not strong enough to be a main goal.
More of a consolation prize
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Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:Doesn't that directly contradict what the Warhammer 40K facebook team said? I think I recall reading a quote of them saying the Primaris marines will be compatible with other shoulder pads in particular Chapter specific molded pads.
Oh cool, theres more Primaris kits coming soon? Did not know that, thanks.
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Post by: Rippy
Also maybe make a separate HH thread if there isn't one already, unless it has something to do with new 40k that I missed? Automatically Appended Next Post: Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:Doesn't that directly contradict what the Warhammer 40K facebook team said? I think I recall reading a quote of them saying the Primaris marines will be compatible with other shoulder pads in particular Chapter specific molded pads.
Oh cool, theres more Primaris kits coming soon? Did not know that, thanks.
Standard multi-part plastic kits.
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
Also, realising the loss of bolt pistols isn't an issue - there's no bonus attack for a pistol anymore and it seems Rapid Fire doesn't prevent charging.
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Post by: Frozocrone
Not too sure on multiple instances of Overwatch and 2D6 charge but if I'm reading correctly the opponent chooses where casualties come from, so theoretically they could just remove the models at the back of the unit.
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Post by: changemod
Rippy wrote:Also maybe make a separate HH thread if there isn't one already, unless it has something to do with new 40k that I missed?
You missed that Heresy isn't going to become 8th is 8th news as it pertains to 8th.
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Post by: Charax
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Also, realising the loss of bolt pistols isn't an issue - there's no bonus attack for a pistol anymore and it seems Rapid Fire doesn't prevent charging.
Pistols can fire while an enemy is within 1", it would have added utility to the unit for them to switch to BP+ Plague Knife while fighting, and fluffy:
"All his Space Marines were expected by Mortarion to be equally adept with bolter, pistol and close combat weapon, to fight with whatever weapon circumstance dictated." - Index Astartes: Death Guard
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Post by: Powerfisting
 NivlacSupreme wrote:With the supreme command detachment I could just run all 10 Ultramarines Captains and some vets/Honor Guard to get in the way.
Did I miss something? did more FOCs get leaked?
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Rippy wrote:Plasma gun is awesome! Choose the safe option, or gamble with a 1 in 6 chance of guaranteed damage!
Looks like that is standard of all plasma guns.
Yup. I am hoping a lot of SM HQ units give the reroll to 1s like the Gravis Captain does. A 1/36 chance of losing a model is definitely worth the extra damage. Plasmaguns are probably going to be my Tactical Squad Special Weapon from here on out.
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
Charax wrote: DarkStarSabre wrote:
Also, realising the loss of bolt pistols isn't an issue - there's no bonus attack for a pistol anymore and it seems Rapid Fire doesn't prevent charging.
Pistols can fire while an enemy is within 1", it would have added utility to the unit for them to switch to BP+ Plague Knife while fighting, and fluffy:
"All his Space Marines were expected by Mortarion to be equally adept with bolter, pistol and close combat weapon, to fight with whatever weapon circumstance dictated." - Index Astartes: Death Guard
Fair enough but mechanically it's redundant. If you really want to fire a pistol at 1 inch range into the enemy unit...uhhhhhhhhhhhh. Why not just charge them? Being able to reroll 1s to wound with plague knives is huge in an edition where everything can be wounded - as is that lovely bubble effect from the Lord of Contagion causing mortal wounds.
Automatically Appended Next Post: casvalremdeikun wrote: Rippy wrote:Plasma gun is awesome! Choose the safe option, or gamble with a 1 in 6 chance of guaranteed damage!
Looks like that is standard of all plasma guns.
Yup. I am hoping a lot of SM HQ units give the reroll to 1s like the Gravis Captain does. A 1/36 chance of losing a model is definitely worth the extra damage. Plasmaguns are probably going to be my Tactical Squad Special Weapon from here on out.
Looks like the edition of Plasma may be back.
Especially as Rapid Fire doesn't seem to prevent you assaulting either.
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Post by: NivlacSupreme
 Powerfisting wrote: NivlacSupreme wrote:With the supreme command detachment I could just run all 10 Ultramarines Captains and some vets/Honor Guard to get in the way.
Did I miss something? did more FOCs get leaked?
Yeah. There's one that only needs 3 HQ.
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Post by: changemod
I'd like to see what plasma cannons do. Plasma Kataphrons could be interesting now.
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Post by: Latro_
wow yea rapid fire looks like its good for assault! thats pretty huge i expect all units apart from assaulty ones are gonna loose pistols.
Same for heavy weapons, allows for some what would of been seen as ghasty units in 7th to be somewhat viable e.g. devis, 4 multi meltas and a serg with a powerfist dropping down in a pod! ok the mm's hit on 4's but ye guaranteeded 9" away and you get to assault!
Also 3" consolidation to engage multiple enemy units or a new unit is confirmed.... the rules only say you can't get within 1" in the movement phase so you can use your 3" in the charge phase to wangle your way into other units.
Also think it was mentioned but the assault running rule is nice for the 75 ork shoota boyz i have... call a warghhh 6" (assuming they move 6"), d6" move, all your shoota shots hitting on a 6 but better than nothing then a 2d6" charge with a re-roll.
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Post by: Kinetochore
OK so from reading the leaked rules am I correct in thinking:
You can disembark an assault unit within 12" of the enemy but with the transport between you and the enemy unit you want to charge.
Declare charge.
Enemy has no line of sight to charging unit so can't overwatch
Charging unit moves to within 1" of target unit (assuming you make charge roll)
Pile in 3"
##scene deleted due to gratuitous violence##
Victory
Obviously this needs the transport to have moved up the previous turn and not been destroyed and needs your unit to be small enough to hide behind transport. Rules make no mention of assaulting unit needing LOS to target unit
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
 Latro_ wrote:wow yea rapid fire looks like its good for assault! thats pretty huge i expect all units apart from assaulty ones are gonna loose pistols.
Also 3" consolidation to engage multiple enemy units or a new unit is confirmed.... the rules only say you can't get within 1" in the movement phase so you can use your 3" in the charge phase to wangle your way into other units.
Also think it was mentioned but the assault running rule is nice for the 75 ork shoota boyz i have... call a warghhh 6" (assuming they move 6"), d6" move, all your shoota shots hitting on a 6 but better than nothing then a 2d6" charge with a re-roll.
Orks are going to hit hard.
Game is a whole lot more strategic though - say a few mobs of Orks gets into some Chaos Marine squads - massacre, right? Until the Chaos player burns 2 CP and has the Chaos Marines swing first against one of the mobs. (Spend if after a unit that charged has fought - so you basically sack one squad to let the other turn the table.)
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Post by: Rippy
changemod wrote: Rippy wrote:Also maybe make a separate HH thread if there isn't one already, unless it has something to do with new 40k that I missed?
You missed that Heresy isn't going to become 8th is 8th news as it pertains to 8th.
I think you missed the " 40k" part in the thread title.
DarkStarSabre wrote:
Also, realising the loss of bolt pistols isn't an issue - there's no bonus attack for a pistol anymore and it seems Rapid Fire doesn't prevent charging.
Well it is more of an issue as everyone can shoot with every weapon they have now. That is an extra bolt shot per model :(
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also Dark Star, it means they can shoot a model and then use their plague knife in assault :( Automatically Appended Next Post: What happens to the centre part of that door when it opens, Latro?
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Post by: Vorian
Rippy wrote:changemod wrote: Rippy wrote:Also maybe make a separate HH thread if there isn't one already, unless it has something to do with new 40k that I missed?
You missed that Heresy isn't going to become 8th is 8th news as it pertains to 8th.
I think you missed the " 40k" part in the thread title.
DarkStarSabre wrote:
Also, realising the loss of bolt pistols isn't an issue - there's no bonus attack for a pistol anymore and it seems Rapid Fire doesn't prevent charging.
Well it is more of an issue as everyone can shoot with every weapon they have now. That is an extra bolt shot per model :(
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Dark Star, it means they can shoot a model and then use their plague knife in assault :(
Automatically Appended Next Post:
What happens to the centre part of that door when it opens, Latro?
Except you can't fire a pistol and another weapon - you need to choose
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Post by: Spoletta
Read pistol rules again, you can't shoot with those together with bolters.
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Post by: Rippy
Check the leaks in the OP Vorian, it says you can shoot with every weapon you have in the shooting phase...
Edit: oh maybe I missed the pistol part, nevermind me.
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Post by: Nightlord1987
Apparently pistols are an either/or thing listed in the Shooting rules. So not even those damned Loyalists get to fire bolters AND pistols.
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Post by: Justyn
Also 3" consolidation to engage multiple enemy units or a new unit is confirmed.... the rules only say you can't get within 1" in the movement phase so you can use your 3" in the charge phase to wangle your way into other units.
You must end closer to the nearest enemy model. So most of the time you will be pushing closer into the combat. But occasionally if your model is on the edge, or you wipe the enemy unit out, you may snag another unit.
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Post by: ERJAK
 Kinetochore wrote:OK so from reading the leaked rules am I correct in thinking:
You can disembark an assault unit within 12" of the enemy but with the transport between you and the enemy unit you want to charge.
Declare charge.
Enemy has no line of sight to charging unit so can't overwatch
Charging unit moves to within 1" of target unit (assuming you make charge roll)
Pile in 3"
##scene deleted due to gratuitous violence##
Victory
Obviously this needs the transport to have moved up the previous turn and not been destroyed and needs your unit to be small enough to hide behind transport. Rules make no mention of assaulting unit needing LOS to target unit
Doing this out of any imperial vehicle would mean a 5 or 6 inch charge minimum and wouldn't work for units larger than 5 or spread out enemy units. Also don't forget you disembark BEFORE you move so...yeah good luck with that.
Basically, neat gimmick, totally impractical.
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Post by: Rippy
Can someone please point to where it says pistols and other weapons both cant be fired in the same shooting phase?
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
 Nightlord1987 wrote:Apparently pistols are an either/or thing listed in the Shooting rules. So not even those damned Loyalists get to fire bolters AND pistols.
Basically the Pistol rules benefit units like Seraphim or units that are Gunslinger types - or units that are really shoddy in assault but happen to have good pistols who just need to put damage out because Falling Back isn't an option (perhaps no other units close enough to support them - sort of a last stand type of deal.)
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Post by: changemod
Bolt pistols are an extra S4 ap - attack once every second player turn (I'm pretty sure you can't use them in the enemy turn), so I guess they're a little handy in drawn out fights, especially for troops that are S4 ap - regardless.
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Post by: Iphie
Rippy wrote:Can someone please point to where it says pistols and other weapons both cant be fired in the same shooting phase?
The pistol rules under the weapon types leak.
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Post by: Medicinal Carrots
Rippy wrote:Can someone please point to where it says pistols and other weapons both cant be fired in the same shooting phase?
It's on the Weapon Types page, under the rules for Pistols.
"Each time a model equipped with both a Pistol and another type of ranged weapon (e.g. a Pistol and a Rapid Fire weapon) shoots, it can either shoot with its Pistol(s) or with all of its other weapons."
Grenades have a similar rule that you can fire 1 from 1 model instead of firing any other weapons from that model.
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Post by: Rippy
 Iphie wrote: Rippy wrote:Can someone please point to where it says pistols and other weapons both cant be fired in the same shooting phase?
The pistol rules under the weapon types leak.
Thanks mate, I missed that leak, I will have another look.
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Post by: SirDalavar
Looking at the leaked core rules, if i understand correctly,
Having pistols allows units locked in combat, to fire their pistols at the enemy combatant during the shooting phase,
and not impacting the other normal functions of the combat phase later on...?
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Post by: Cephalobeard
 SirDalavar wrote:Looking at the leaked core rules, if i understand correctly,
Having pistols allows units locked in combat, to fire their pistols at the enemy combatant during the shooting phase,
and not impacting the other normal functions of the combat phase later on...?
Correct.
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Post by: Justyn
Bolt pistols are an extra S4 ap - attack once every second player turn (I'm pretty sure you can't use them in the enemy turn), so I guess they're a little handy in drawn out fights, especially for troops that are S4 ap - regardless.
I see it as more of an advantage to defenders. They will be the first to get to use it.
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Post by: Rippy
Regardless, I am sad to see pistols go from Plague Marines.
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Post by: Kinetochore
ERJAK wrote: Kinetochore wrote:OK so from reading the leaked rules am I correct in thinking:
You can disembark an assault unit within 12" of the enemy but with the transport between you and the enemy unit you want to charge.
Declare charge.
Enemy has no line of sight to charging unit so can't overwatch
Charging unit moves to within 1" of target unit (assuming you make charge roll)
Pile in 3"
##scene deleted due to gratuitous violence##
Victory
Obviously this needs the transport to have moved up the previous turn and not been destroyed and needs your unit to be small enough to hide behind transport. Rules make no mention of assaulting unit needing LOS to target unit
Doing this out of any imperial vehicle would mean a 5 or 6 inch charge minimum and wouldn't work for units larger than 5 or spread out enemy units. Also don't forget you disembark BEFORE you move so...yeah good luck with that.
Basically, neat gimmick, totally impractical.
Bit of a long shot yeah. Beats getting mega overwatched by Tau though
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Post by: Justyn
Regardless, I am sad to see pistols go from Plague Marines.
It makes me wonder if normal Tactical Marines will still have them. I'm guessing not even though Primaris do.
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Post by: SirDalavar
Kinetochore wrote:ERJAK wrote: Kinetochore wrote:OK so from reading the leaked rules am I correct in thinking:
You can disembark an assault unit within 12" of the enemy but with the transport between you and the enemy unit you want to charge.
Declare charge.
Enemy has no line of sight to charging unit so can't overwatch
Charging unit moves to within 1" of target unit (assuming you make charge roll)
Pile in 3"
##scene deleted due to gratuitous violence##
Victory
Obviously this needs the transport to have moved up the previous turn and not been destroyed and needs your unit to be small enough to hide behind transport. Rules make no mention of assaulting unit needing LOS to target unit
Doing this out of any imperial vehicle would mean a 5 or 6 inch charge minimum and wouldn't work for units larger than 5 or spread out enemy units. Also don't forget you disembark BEFORE you move so...yeah good luck with that.
Basically, neat gimmick, totally impractical.
Bit of a long shot yeah. Beats getting mega overwatched by Tau though
Would work better with a group of vehicles, Imagine 3-4 Rhinos forming a shield wall for a small army, assuming you would need to leave a small window open still.
=EDIT= actually, reading the rules, Overwatch doesn't mention needing line of sight, i suppose they just take their shots when they are just a few feet from their faces,
However, they cant shoot overwatch if an enemy is within 1" so you could use your vehicle more as a ram, getting into 1 inch, and denying any further overwatch on troops...
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Post by: Justyn
Would work better with a group of vehicles, Imagine 3-4 Rhinos forming a shield wall for a small army, assuming you would need to leave a small window open still.
Wouldn't it be better to have your Rhino's charge first to soak the overwatch? Since you can't move through your wall of Rhinos. Automatically Appended Next Post: =EDIT= actually, reading the rules, Overwatch doesn't mention needing line of sight, i suppose they just take their shots when they are just a few feet from their faces,
However, they cant shoot overwatch if an enemy is within 1" so you could use your vehicle more as a ram, getting into 1 inch, and denying any further overwatch on troops...
Overwatch uses all the rules for shooting normally in the shooting phase other than you always need a 6 to hit. So range and line of sight matter. Range is also very important, because if you can make longer than normal charge distances you can deny overwatch to flamer weapons.
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Post by: theharrower
Blood Angels Primaris Marines. I approve!
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Post by: buddha
Justyn wrote:
Would work better with a group of vehicles, Imagine 3-4 Rhinos forming a shield wall for a small army, assuming you would need to leave a small window open still.
Wouldn't it be better to have your Rhino's charge first to soak the overwatch? Since you can't move through your wall of Rhinos.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
=EDIT= actually, reading the rules, Overwatch doesn't mention needing line of sight, i suppose they just take their shots when they are just a few feet from their faces,
However, they cant shoot overwatch if an enemy is within 1" so you could use your vehicle more as a ram, getting into 1 inch, and denying any further overwatch on troops...
Overwatch uses all the rules for shooting normally in the shooting phase other than you always need a 6 to hit. So range and line of sight matter. Range is also very important, because if you can make longer than normal charge distances you can deny overwatch to flamer weapons.
From the current rules leaks it seems like a unit gets limitless overwatch for any unit that declares a charge against it so there isn't really a strategy to "soak" overwatch anymore.
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Post by: SirDalavar
buddha wrote:Justyn wrote:
Would work better with a group of vehicles, Imagine 3-4 Rhinos forming a shield wall for a small army, assuming you would need to leave a small window open still.
Wouldn't it be better to have your Rhino's charge first to soak the overwatch? Since you can't move through your wall of Rhinos.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
=EDIT= actually, reading the rules, Overwatch doesn't mention needing line of sight, i suppose they just take their shots when they are just a few feet from their faces,
However, they cant shoot overwatch if an enemy is within 1" so you could use your vehicle more as a ram, getting into 1 inch, and denying any further overwatch on troops...
Overwatch uses all the rules for shooting normally in the shooting phase other than you always need a 6 to hit. So range and line of sight matter. Range is also very important, because if you can make longer than normal charge distances you can deny overwatch to flamer weapons.
From the current rules leaks it seems like a unit gets limitless overwatch for any unit that declares a charge against it so there isn't really a strategy to "soak" overwatch anymore.
Untill a unit actually make the required distance and locks them in combat (Like a vehicle), if the 1st unit make the charge, the 2nd and 3rd wont suffer overwatch
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
buddha wrote:Justyn wrote:
Would work better with a group of vehicles, Imagine 3-4 Rhinos forming a shield wall for a small army, assuming you would need to leave a small window open still.
Wouldn't it be better to have your Rhino's charge first to soak the overwatch? Since you can't move through your wall of Rhinos.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
=EDIT= actually, reading the rules, Overwatch doesn't mention needing line of sight, i suppose they just take their shots when they are just a few feet from their faces,
However, they cant shoot overwatch if an enemy is within 1" so you could use your vehicle more as a ram, getting into 1 inch, and denying any further overwatch on troops...
Overwatch uses all the rules for shooting normally in the shooting phase other than you always need a 6 to hit. So range and line of sight matter. Range is also very important, because if you can make longer than normal charge distances you can deny overwatch to flamer weapons.
From the current rules leaks it seems like a unit gets limitless overwatch for any unit that declares a charge against it so there isn't really a strategy to "soak" overwatch anymore.
They only get multiple overwatch if they haven't been engaged.
It is totally viable to have a tank / cannon fodder take the overwatch hits, engage them, and for the more damaging units close in.
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Post by: Justyn
From the current rules leaks it seems like a unit gets limitless overwatch for any unit that declares a charge against it so there isn't really a strategy to "soak" overwatch anymore.
As long as no one makes it within an inch they do. As soon as one model makes it within an inch, no more overwatch.
Doh, slow typer. Beaten twice.
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Post by: SirDalavar
Wow, that Dreadnought is starting to look a little underwhelming...
Was this a GW painted army?
I thought they said there would be Primaris Dreadnoughts in an early post somewhere,
if so, guess they wont have a new model on launch
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Post by: Cephalobeard
No word on more models on release. Mortarion and all the extra models will likely come afterwards.
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Post by: Chikout
A primaris dreadnought is definitely coming and probably a new flyer too. A rumour I saw a while ago was that we would get a full deathguard release in the summer and a full primaris release in the autumn.
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Post by: Motograter
SirDalavar wrote:
Wow, that Dreadnought is starting to look a little underwhelming...
Was this a GW painted army?
I thought they said there would be Primaris Dreadnoughts in an early post somewhere,
if so, guess they wont have a new model on launch
They did say that but based on the starter set not even being out yet it`s not likely that they have other stuff ready to go
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Post by: theharrower
Genestealer Cults are up.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/27/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-genestealer-cults/ Automatically Appended Next Post: SirDalavar wrote:
Wow, that Dreadnought is starting to look a little underwhelming...
Was this a GW painted army?
I thought they said there would be Primaris Dreadnoughts in an early post somewhere,
if so, guess they wont have a new model on launch
Yes. Here's a better pic.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Normal marines next to them look hilarious.
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Post by: Justyn
I like how they have old Marines behind them so you can see how Pathetic and Weak they look compared to Primaris. Time to go watch Soldier again.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Chucking demo charges from a Rockgrinder just got lots more powerful now that there's no scatter!
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Post by: Galas
I think the dathaseet for the Plague Marines has all the weapon options because is the same dathaseet for the old Plague Marines models. I still believe the rest of the dathaseets are only for the models in the starter set.
And: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/27/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-genestealer-cults/
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Post by: changemod
Justyn wrote:I like how they have old Marines behind them so you can see how Pathetic and Weak they look compared to Primaris. Time to go watch Soldier again.
I think that's kind of unfair phrasing: It's more that you can see how poorly the two scales look together in the same army.
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Post by: Coyote81
I'm really hoping that many more vehicles get rules like the rockgrinder, where it they are embarked, they get more weapons to fire.
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Post by: changemod
JohnnyHell wrote:Chucking demo charges from a Rockgrinder just got lots more powerful now that there's no scatter!
Also rock grinders as a whole got a lot better in that they're actually viable transports now rather than just support vehicles. Not much point sticking someone in a non-assault transport if you can just cult ambush after all.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
changemod wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:Chucking demo charges from a Rockgrinder just got lots more powerful now that there's no scatter!
Also rock grinders as a whole got a lot better in that they're actually viable transports now rather than just support vehicles. Not much point sticking someone in a non-assault transport if you can just cult ambush after all.
Great point! The army should function as it always wanted to! Automatically Appended Next Post: Coyote81 wrote:I'm really hoping that many more vehicles get rules like the rockgrinder, where it they are embarked, they get more weapons to fire.
There's the Chimera's terrifying 6 lasguns!!! Don't forget, they can now kill Land Raiders!
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Post by: Justyn
I think that's kind of unfair phrasing: It's more that you can see how poorly the two scales look together in the same army.
Yeah my tone of voice didn't carry well over the internet. If you have never watched Soldier with Kurt Russel do so if you get a chance. That will carry my intended tone much better.
I like the models for the Primaris Marines. I intend to use tons of the cheap starter set ones to make True Scale Marines. Like many others though, I find the fluff kinda dumb. Not so much that Cawl/Guilliman made an improved Marine in improved armor with improved weapons. But that they also are BIGGER, and BETTERER, and everyone else was taking massive casualties. Its all very forced.
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Post by: shinr
I hope that there will be Primaris Beakies.
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Post by: SirDalavar
Justyn wrote:I think that's kind of unfair phrasing: It's more that you can see how poorly the two scales look together in the same army.
Yeah my tone of voice didn't carry well over the internet. If you have never watched Soldier with Kurt Russel do so if you get a chance. That will carry my intended tone much better.
I like the models for the Primaris Marines. I intend to use tons of the cheap starter set ones to make True Scale Marines. Like many others though, I find the fluff kinda dumb. Not so much that Cawl/Guilliman made an improved Marine in improved armor with improved weapons. But that they also are BIGGER, and BETTERER, and everyone else was taking massive casualties. Its all very forced.
Its a conspiracy!,
Primaris are only given out as replacements when needed,
So various chapter masters, (who may or may not be corrupted by chaos), are intentionally sacrificing their lesser brothers in favor of their more superior cousins... its conspiracy i say!
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Post by: Future War Cultist
I can't wait to get my hands on the Primes. The models are just fantastic!
No idea what chapter I'll do though.
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Post by: Yodhrin
changemod wrote:Justyn wrote:I like how they have old Marines behind them so you can see how Pathetic and Weak they look compared to Primaris. Time to go watch Soldier again.
I think that's kind of unfair phrasing: It's more that you can see how poorly the two scales look together in the same army.
I'm actually kind of glad the new background is so guff to my taste, I can't imagine how hilarious a truescale Primaris conversion would look after I use the Primaris to make truescale Marines
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Post by: Justyn
No idea what chapter I'll do though.
I was thinking about doing Luna Wolves or something. I mean the geneseed was just sitting there for Guilliman to use...
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Post by: docdoom77
So, did we not get a regular article today? Just a faction focus?
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Post by: Future War Cultist
Justyn wrote:No idea what chapter I'll do though.
I was thinking about doing Luna Wolves or something. I mean the geneseed was just sitting there for Guilliman to use...
Don't laugh but...I'm kinda tempted by the Rainbow warriors!
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Post by: Justyn
Whatever floats your boat. Too blue for me.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
As much of an in-joke as they may be, the Rainbow Warriors certainly look fine and they have a bitchin' Chapter symbol.
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Post by: Future War Cultist
It was that symbol that drew my attention. Plus, I like the stripes.
The other chapter was the Raptors. Pretty different.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
 Future War Cultist wrote:
It was that symbol that drew my attention. Plus, I like the stripes.
The other chapter was the Raptors. Pretty different.
I'm doing Raptors. Love them.
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