mk2 wrote:
So are TOs going to force people to rip up their painted models and place them on new bases?

GW nukes the tournament players once again with total chaos.

That's not a real concern.. TO's don't make people rebase their armies as it's still legal to use bases the models *used* to come with.

 mk2 wrote:
So are TOs going to force people to rip up their painted models and place them on new bases?

GW nukes the tournament players once again with total chaos.

What tournaments are GW running that they could make that request in?

Bases have changed many times, the streets have never been filled with wailing gamers tearing their models apart. As people have said many times, GW have always grandfathered in previous base sizes.

Removed by insaniak. Please see Dakka's Rule #1

 Kirasu wrote:

 mk2 wrote:
So are TOs going to force people to rip up their painted models and place them on new bases?

GW nukes the tournament players once again with total chaos.

That's not a real concern.. TO's don't make people rebase their armies as it's still legal to use bases the models *used* to come with.

To be fair, some tournaments did require terminators to be rebased, because a lot of players had issues with the different base size in that specific case, because of the difference it made to Deep Strike formations largely.

That's about the only time I can think of that it's been at all commonly done, though. In most other cases, tournies are fine with whatever bases are on the figures, so long as they are appropriate.

Preorders for the box set are up on eBay from a reputable seller. At a discount too. Don't know how long it will be there so if you decided you were going to get it might want to check it out

If it's discount games store, I've ordered from them once and received no product or reply. Ended up reporting to ebay for refund. Just warning everybody.

 Kaiserbudheim wrote:
Not sure about that Captain mini. I mean, it's not bad but as a BA Captain I imagined the armor being gold and super ornate. Dante's armor is gold. Tycho's armor is gold. Old RT captain figs have been painted up with gold. So why no gold for this guy?

That's a good point, although there's nothing stopping you painting his armour gold.

Perhaps incarnation is mid-battle and the red armour is actually gold armour covered in Nid blood?

D

This picture has made me appreciate the Captain a bit more, still from other shots there is not much detail on his cloak:

That Broodlord is soooo big.

I must have it!

Captain with long blonde hair Sanguinius style on termy armor would have been spectacular. I like him although cape could´ve been more detailed. I wish he had a storm shield instead of the storm bolter.

That image makes the Captain's pose look a little less goofy. I still don't think I will ever field him since he is a giant points sink due to that "Give the enemy a free victory point" thunder hammer. The only saving grace for him is if he somehow buffs Tactical Terminators into non-suckitude. I might see if I can find a good Space Wolf head with long hair for him.

Okay at 75 notes that's my Xmas/birthday present from Mrs Souleater sorted.

I have been toying with the idea of restarting Blood Angels with the collected SM from various starter boxes for some time now. I can use all these bits to bling out the vanilla stuff. The captain is nothing special but meh.

could do with a mini rule book.

Mainly, though, the Nids are good. The fex can be magnetized for flexibilty (oh, who am i trying to kid, i just buy more Fexes! ). I don't need any more warriors but have none of the new ones.

Since i love stealers i don't mind more of them...and that Broodlord is awesome.

If things weren't so tight i would buy two of these. Solid deal for me.

I hope GW contines this trend. Necron vs Sisters, Xenos vs Guard, etc

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
That image makes the Captain's pose look a little less goofy. I still don't think I will ever field him since he is a giant points sink due to that "Give the enemy a free victory point" thunder hammer. The only saving grace for him is if he somehow buffs Tactical Terminators into non-suckitude. I might see if I can find a good Space Wolf head with long hair for him.

We dont know anything about his rules yet. He could be super cost effective, or have a thunder hammer that strikes at initiative. Or have a sick warlord trait.

Ok, I too have to agree the Captain looks better in that picture but the main attraction is still that Broodlord. I mean, damn, just look at that monster, it's a thing of beauty!

 th3maninblak wrote:
We dont know anything about his rules yet. He could be super cost effective, or have a thunder hammer that strikes at initiative. Or have a sick warlord trait.

Maybe he has the Fear special rule.

lol H.B.M.C.

"And they shall know more fear"

Oh god not more fear...

So I was thinking about those bases that are now actually priced. I highly doubt that GW will try to enforce some sort of policy that requires one to change out the bases for some models. There are a few upshots to the bigger bases. Especially in the case of jump pack Space Marines, it gives them a wider base so they don't tip over. Also, in terms of modeling, a bigger base means more room to make a nice scenic base. The downside, especially in the case of Blood Angels and their tendency to deep strike jump infantry (at least, they are supposed to, though it has fallen WAY out of favor) is that it makes the squad's footprint about half an inch or so bigger in diameter (I would have to do the math on that), it makes them prone to mishaps more.

If you run DC without packs, is there a +/- to having a bigger base? I am having trouble thinking of one.

Going by the Space Wolves and Dark Angels I'd say the Blood Angels have a good shot at a new flyer but the fact that the Stormraven comes with plastic Blood Angels heraldry and the fact that the Grey Knights are Space Marines too and didn't get their own unique flyer... I'm completely torn.

As H.B.M.C pointed out earlier, trying to find a consistent pattern in Games Workshop is folly.

The Thunder Hammer on the Captain is a relic called "The Hammer of Baal" which suggests it will probably have special rules which may explain the lack of Storm Shield.

He does come with an Iron Halo but that's obviously nowhere near as good as a Storm Shield.

In terms of base size it allows DC to be in base to base contact with more models but that goes both ways, positive and negative.

I am hoping for a new flyer being the wings they are referencing, but that is unlikely. Still, never know. As long as it isn't gak like the DA flyers, I am up for something new. Heck, even just letting them use the Stormtalon would be good for me.

I would field this Captain in a minute if his hammer struck at faster than I1. It is probably just Mastercrafted. The Iron Halo is 4+ so it isn't THAT bad compared to a Storm Shield (What? 18some%). Obviously not a replacement, but better than nothing. I suppose we will have to wait until the leaks come out for the rules from the box.

Facebook is work blocked so can't cut and paste, but Lords of wargaming are reporting on there feed that ALL models that are on 25mm bases are switching to the 32mm bases in future.
And we know what there rumour accuracy is like...

 manrogue wrote:
Facebook is work blocked so can't cut and paste, but Lords of wargaming are reporting on there feed that ALL models that are on 25mm bases are switching to the 32mm bases in future.
And we know what there rumour accuracy is like...

Lords of Wargaming's record is stellar, but this is kinda already wrong. The Genestealers in the Shield of Baal box are on what looks like old 25mm bases, whereas the Death Company isn't. If everything were to switch, they'd have done the Genestealers in the box as well, no?

 manrogue wrote:
Facebook is work blocked so can't cut and paste, but Lords of wargaming are reporting on there feed that ALL models that are on 25mm bases are switching to the 32mm bases in future.
And we know what there rumour accuracy is like...

That sounds like a terrible idea. Unless they're finally going to make Space Marines truescale. In which case, where are my truescale Chaos Space Marines?

Funnily enough was thinking that myself, but could just be with new stuff going forward.

Will see when the new Blood Angels stuff is out, would make sense to do it with new releases going forward as otherwise they would have to open every box and switch the bases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Via Lords of War Gaming

So for those of you that pay attention to the release list for upcoming product you may have noticed that 32mm bases are on the list for next week.
If you are wondering what they were for take a good hard look at the Death company in the picture and compare to the genestealers and behold the future!
Get ready to get your (re)base on. To reiterate ALL MODELS on 25mm bases will eventually transition to the new 32mm bases.

Just typed off the face book page on my phone so you can see the actual comment.

 manrogue wrote:
Facebook is work blocked so can't cut and paste, but Lords of wargaming are reporting on there feed that ALL models that are on 25mm bases are switching to the 32mm bases in future.
And we know what there rumour accuracy is like...

As long as I'm not forced to rebase all my current models, I'm so for that change. Bigger base = more space for cool stuff.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:


As long as I'm not forced to rebase all my current models, I'm so for that change. Bigger base = more space for cool stuff.

True.

Funny enough, I would've thought that Genestealers would've made better candidates for larger bases. They are far less balanced (as in physically, as models) and get tangled up easily with all their claws, when you push them into a tight base-to-base cc... Marines, being more "vertical", don't have that problem as much, even with Jump Packs.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So I was thinking about those bases that are now actually priced. I highly doubt that GW will try to enforce some sort of policy that requires one to change out the bases for some models. There are a few upshots to the bigger bases. Especially in the case of jump pack Space Marines, it gives them a wider base so they don't tip over. Also, in terms of modeling, a bigger base means more room to make a nice scenic base. The downside, especially in the case of Blood Angels and their tendency to deep strike jump infantry (at least, they are supposed to, though it has fallen WAY out of favor) is that it makes the squad's footprint about half an inch or so bigger in diameter (I would have to do the math on that), it makes them prone to mishaps more.

If you run DC without packs, is there a +/- to having a bigger base? I am having trouble thinking of one.

less models hit by blasts, harder to fit in terrain.

Well, they can forget it. 25mms are fine, don't fix what ain't broke.

All models... hmm...

That could potentially suck for my foam trays.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:


As long as I'm not forced to rebase all my current models, I'm so for that change. Bigger base = more space for cool stuff.

True.

Funny enough, I would've thought that Genestealers would've made better candidates for larger bases. They are far less balanced (as in physically, as models) and get tangled up easily with all their claws, when you push them into a tight base-to-base cc... Marines, being more "vertical", don't have that problem as much, even with Jump Packs.

But you know what Marines with Jump Packs do have?

The "Bulky" special rule...

 Paradigm wrote:
Well, they can forget it. 25mms are fine, don't fix what ain't broke.

Eh. Plastic Pink Horrors require weights in order to stand on 25mm. Period. The new bases may change that. And though I do consider it an improvement to the 25mm base, it may prevent things like squad maneuvering in choke points, and lets not forget the whole "same models on different bases on the same table" thing. I hope it won't look as bad as it sounds.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So I was thinking about those bases that are now actually priced. I highly doubt that GW will try to enforce some sort of policy that requires one to change out the bases for some models. There are a few upshots to the bigger bases. Especially in the case of jump pack Space Marines, it gives them a wider base so they don't tip over. Also, in terms of modeling, a bigger base means more room to make a nice scenic base. The downside, especially in the case of Blood Angels and their tendency to deep strike jump infantry (at least, they are supposed to, though it has fallen WAY out of favor) is that it makes the squad's footprint about half an inch or so bigger in diameter (I would have to do the math on that), it makes them prone to mishaps more.

If you run DC without packs, is there a +/- to having a bigger base? I am having trouble thinking of one.

Another plus point is that it makes the unit more survivable to blast & template weapons. Bigger bases mean blast & template weapons will hit less models as you'll be spreading your unit over a bigger area due to the bigger bases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mymearan wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So I was thinking about those bases that are now actually priced. I highly doubt that GW will try to enforce some sort of policy that requires one to change out the bases for some models. There are a few upshots to the bigger bases. Especially in the case of jump pack Space Marines, it gives them a wider base so they don't tip over. Also, in terms of modeling, a bigger base means more room to make a nice scenic base. The downside, especially in the case of Blood Angels and their tendency to deep strike jump infantry (at least, they are supposed to, though it has fallen WAY out of favor) is that it makes the squad's footprint about half an inch or so bigger in diameter (I would have to do the math on that), it makes them prone to mishaps more.

If you run DC without packs, is there a +/- to having a bigger base? I am having trouble thinking of one.

less models hit by blasts, harder to fit in terrain.

True, harder to fit in terrain as well, but I think it'll be a bigger advantage to get hit less by blasts & templates since some do ignore cover saves. The Helldrake comes to mind on this one. The thing just comes out of nowhere and throws a flamer template onto you at AP3. Usually gets enough to wipe a good chunk of a Space marine squad out as it currently stands

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:


As long as I'm not forced to rebase all my current models, I'm so for that change. Bigger base = more space for cool stuff.

True.

Funny enough, I would've thought that Genestealers would've made better candidates for larger bases. They are far less balanced (as in physically, as models) and get tangled up easily with all their claws, when you push them into a tight base-to-base cc... Marines, being more "vertical", don't have that problem as much, even with Jump Packs.

But you know what Marines with Jump Packs do have?

The "Bulky" special rule...

But Death Compaany without Jump Packs will also have the 32mm bases...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:


As long as I'm not forced to rebase all my current models, I'm so for that change. Bigger base = more space for cool stuff.

True.

Funny enough, I would've thought that Genestealers would've made better candidates for larger bases. They are far less balanced (as in physically, as models) and get tangled up easily with all their claws, when you push them into a tight base-to-base cc... Marines, being more "vertical", don't have that problem as much, even with Jump Packs.

But you know what Marines with Jump Packs do have?

The "Bulky" special rule...

But Death Company without Jump Packs will also have the 32mm bases...

Do you know that for sure?

The previous box had you equipping a squad in a specific way for the formations in the box, so it's not unbelievable that they are doing the same here and introducing the 32mm based Jump Pack infantry with it.

I like the captain myself. Will probably pick this up & split with a mate as he plays 'nids & I want to start a Death Company army. Will pick up the BA box-bundle too. That should give me a nice start.

But what happens if the box bundle assault marines come with 25mm bases & I want to put them all in 1 squad??

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:


As long as I'm not forced to rebase all my current models, I'm so for that change. Bigger base = more space for cool stuff.

True.

Funny enough, I would've thought that Genestealers would've made better candidates for larger bases. They are far less balanced (as in physically, as models) and get tangled up easily with all their claws, when you push them into a tight base-to-base cc... Marines, being more "vertical", don't have that problem as much, even with Jump Packs.

But you know what Marines with Jump Packs do have?

The "Bulky" special rule...

But Death Company without Jump Packs will also have the 32mm bases...

Do you know that for sure?

The previous box had you equipping a squad in a specific way for the formations in the box, so it's not unbelievable that they are doing the same here and introducing the 32mm based Jump Pack infantry with it.

For sure? No. But otherwise they would have to include both bases in the box.

Lord of wargaming have reiterated in the comments of the post that ALL infantry will eventually switch to 32mm bases.

Yeah, I'm not rebasing all of my armies. I get it for assault troops for stability and their size was a weird mix between troop and terminator. But for regular infantry not a chance from me.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Do you know that for sure?

The previous box had you equipping a squad in a specific way for the formations in the box, so it's not unbelievable that they are doing the same here and introducing the 32mm based Jump Pack infantry with it.

For sure? No. But otherwise they would have to include both bases in the box.

Doubtful.

As I said, the previous box had a very specific equipment list.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
I guess "On Purely Decorative Wings They Come"
is less ominous sounding.
Seems like a bit of a weird way to herald the arrival of the Blood Angels though.

Maybe it's literal. Maybe we really are getting the Blood Angels riding giant bats unit that we've all been dreading.

Finally, GW listens to its customers.

*Throws money at the screen.*

 bubber wrote:
But what happens if the box bundle assault marines come with 25mm bases & I want to put them all in 1 squad??

Chaos.

A switch to 32mm just seems like a you to all the companies out there like dragonforge design, secret weapons and others who have all these custom 25mm bases set up. They've gone after every other company that gets sales off of their goods trying to make them jump through hoops.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Do you know that for sure?

The previous box had you equipping a squad in a specific way for the formations in the box, so it's not unbelievable that they are doing the same here and introducing the 32mm based Jump Pack infantry with it.

For sure? No. But otherwise they would have to include both bases in the box.

Doubtful.

As I said, the previous box had a very specific equipment list.

I was talking about the standard Death Company Squad box. As would the Vanguard Veteran box as jump packs are not figured into the base assumption of the set, unlike the Assault Squad where you take the jump packs away.

 Theophony wrote:
A switch to 32mm just seems like a you to all the companies out there like dragonforge design, secret weapons and others who have all these custom 25mm bases set up. They've gone after every other company that gets sales off of their goods trying to make them jump through hoops.

Though if a general switch to 32mm would be made just to screw the other companies it's basically GW cutting off their nose to spite their face.
The smaller companies can change their products much faster and easuer than GW themselves and will start offering 32mm bases as well after a few weeks or less.

Those who don't feel the need to rip off all their painted models from their bases will keep buying the 25mm resin bases as usual.
Those who feel the need to buy 32mm bases for their old or new armies will buy some from the resin casters the same way they bought some 25mm from them.

So the only thing a general base-switch would be doing is increasing base sales, partly for GW but majorly for the casters of custom bases.

 manrogue wrote:
Funnily enough was thinking that myself, but could just be with new stuff going forward.

Will see when the new Blood Angels stuff is out, would make sense to do it with new releases going forward as otherwise they would have to open every box and switch the bases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Via Lords of War Gaming

So for those of you that pay attention to the release list for upcoming product you may have noticed that 32mm bases are on the list for next week.
If you are wondering what they were for take a good hard look at the Death company in the picture and compare to the genestealers and behold the future!
Get ready to get your (re)base on. To reiterate ALL MODELS on 25mm bases will eventually transition to the new 32mm bases.

Just typed off the face book page on my phone so you can see the actual comment.

Yeah, I don't see that happening. If it were going to be true, I doubt they'd start that in a limited release boxed set and ONLY do one unit in the box. The genestealers in that pic (assuiming they're from the boxed set and not one GW painted years ago) are on 25mm bases. I'm gone to throw a whole salt mine on that rumor.

So I have a copy of the WD. I have a few things to report from it.

1. The Strike Force Deathstorm Formation has two special rules. Against All Odds which grants all models the Fearless rule. If they already have Fearless they get Counter-Attack. Blood Yell? Which lets Karlaen, once per game during an assault phase, allows all units in the formation re-roll to wound rolls until the end of the phase.
2. Blood Talons are now Strx2, AP2, Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon.

That is all I could find as of now. Will update if I find more.

EDIT: Forgot the AP2 for Blood Talons.

Zywus wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
A switch to 32mm just seems like a you to all the companies out there like dragonforge design, secret weapons and others who have all these custom 25mm bases set up. They've gone after every other company that gets sales off of their goods trying to make them jump through hoops.

Though if a general switch to 32mm would be made just to screw the other companies it's basically GW cutting off their nose to spite their face.
The smaller companies can change their products much faster and easuer than GW themselves and will start offering 32mm bases as well after a few weeks or less.

Those who don't feel the need to rip off all their painted models from their bases will keep buying the 25mm resin bases as usual.
Those who feel the need to buy 32mm bases for their old or new armies will buy some from the resin casters the same way they bought some 25mm from them.

So the only thing a general base-switch would be doing is increasing base sales, partly for GW but majorly for the casters of custom bases.

Pretty much this.

I have around 100 or so marines and 20 odd Inquisition models based on 25mm so far. Chances of me changing that effort are exactly zero, especially as some of them have been specifically crafted to make certain poses possible. going forward I will continue using 25mm bases to match what went before. I'm someone with a fairly modest collection, can't imagine those with larger ones are going to jump at the opportunity to alter their basing

Most of the big companies (relatively speaking) that offer resin bases already have a 30 mm size due to WarmaHordes, Infinity, Malifaux etc. Adaptation would not be at all difficult.

I have over 1,000 models on 25mm. So no chance!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So I have a copy of the WD. I have a few things to report from it.

1. The Strike Force Deathstorm Formation has two special rules. Against All Odds which grants all models the Fearless rule. If they already have Fearless they get Counter-Attack. Blood Yell? Which lets Karlaen, once per game during an assault phase, allows all units in the formation re-roll to wound rolls until the end of the phase.
2. Blood Talons are now Strx2, Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon.

That is all I could find as of now. Will update if I find more.

Inevitable toning down of blood talons was inevitable.

Assuming DC remain fearless, chance to gain CA is pretty sweet. If normal dudes are fearless still from Red Thirst roll or similar also a boost.

Thanks for sharing.

D

32mm just seems to be an odd choice for a new base size. I wonder if this is more fallout from the Chapterhouse case in that GW thinks they can go to some sort of proprietary base size to stifle competition? And if they think that, they clearly didn't learn anything.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
32mm just seems to be an odd choice for a new base size. I wonder if this is more fallout from the Chapterhouse case in that GW thinks they can go to some sort of proprietary base size to stifle competition? And if they think that, they clearly didn't learn anything.

Pft.

You're completely ignorant if you think GW are the only ones doing so. Corvus Belli recently went to a "55mm" base for most of their TAGs and other large models.

So Blood Talons now match the Space Wolf equivalent, that is unsurprising.

Potential for Fearless plus Counter Attack is pretty nice I have to say as a Wolf player, will make the DC right nasty.

Also, hasn't this issue about bases been given its own thread?

Blood Yell?

Blood. Yell.

Even if this is some mistranslation and it's Blood Shout or some thing, I mean, srsly?

Bigger base means fewer hammer of wrath hits, right? Not that it comes to effect very often...

rhavien wrote:
Bigger base means fewer hammer of wrath hits, right? Not that it comes to effect very often...

As with many base size related issues, it's likely a wash. Depending on how the models are dispersed, if the target unit is bunched up, yes, it will lead to fewer, if they're more spaced out, it could mean more.

Can we all move the base discussions to the relevant thread please?

Yes, base size rumors have a dedicated N&R thread here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/624701.page

Also, NICE job keeping the OP of this thread updated, Eldercaveman! It's a real pleasure not to have to go edit in all the info . Cheers!

Yeah, can we 'drop the base' talk.

(I'm so, so sorry)

D

 RiTides wrote:
Yes, base size rumors have a dedicated N&R thread here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/624701.page

Also, NICE job keeping the OP of this thread updated, Eldercaveman! It's a real pleasure not to have to go edit in all the info . Cheers!

The information has been on a REALLY slow drip for this release!

I wish they would have worked rampage into the new blood talons. Depending on how much jump packs are for death company, giving them counter attack would be pretty hot. Though termies with fearless are decidedly meh.

Rampage is more a model rule than a weapon rule. It could be that those DC Dreads come out fairly close to Murderfang, but with more options to choose from.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So I have a copy of the WD. I have a few things to report from it.

1. The Strike Force Deathstorm Formation has two special rules. Against All Odds which grants all models the Fearless rule. If they already have Fearless they get Counter-Attack. Blood Yell? Which lets Karlaen, once per game during an assault phase, allows all units in the formation re-roll to wound rolls until the end of the phase.
2. Blood Talons are now Strx2, Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon.

That is all I could find as of now. Will update if I find more.

So Blood Talons have gone up in strength to 10 with re-rolls to wound. Does it mention if they are AP2 now or still AP3?

Any special rules.cor.the Nids?

Blood Talons appear to be AP 2. It is really small writing, hence why I am unsure if it is Blood Yell as well.

So let me correct myself. Blood Talon is Strx2, AP2 , Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Souleater wrote:
Any special rules.cor.the Nids?

Nothing that I could see in WD. Obviously there will be some in the final project though.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Blood Talons appear to be AP 2. It is really small writing, hence why I am unsure if it is Blood Yell as well.

So let me correct myself. Blood Talon is Strx2, AP2 , Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon.

Sweet, then I am OK with that rule. We lose all the extra attacks when we cause wounds but at least it is now at a good AP and we can re-roll wounds.

So they're a straight upgrade to the fists: you lose nothing and gain Shred. Seems fair if the cost is right.

 Paradigm wrote:
So they're a straight upgrade to the fists: you lose nothing and gain Shred. Seems fair if the cost is right.

It appears that way. Makes them capable of ripping through TEQs pretty well. I wonder what the point difference between blood fists and talons will be. I hope I am right on the AP value.

DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Blood Talons appear to be AP 2. It is really small writing, hence why I am unsure if it is Blood Yell as well.

So let me correct myself. Blood Talon is Strx2, AP2 , Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon.

Sweet, then I am OK with that rule. We lose all the extra attacks when we cause wounds but at least it is now at a good AP and we can re-roll wounds.

Paradigm wrote:So they're a straight upgrade to the fists: you lose nothing and gain Shred. Seems fair if the cost is right.

The "Blood fists" server literally zero purpose now though if talons are as stated. They are just straight up better in every respect.

Not to mention watered down as hell.

We are missing information here, or the rules represents here are for "Blood Fists" and not talons.

Might have to start a little bit of blood angels, even if they're just allies for my Grey Knights... Love new codexs!!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
So they're a straight upgrade to the fists: you lose nothing and gain Shred. Seems fair if the cost is right.

It appears that way. Makes them capable of ripping through TEQs pretty well. I wonder what the point difference between blood fists and talons will be. I hope I am right on the AP value.

I hope you're right on the AP value too, otherwise it is a case of just toning down what we had and to be honest I am not expecting much of this codex to be toning things down for Blood Angels since we really need a gaming boost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bellzo wrote:
Might have to start a little bit of blood angels, even if they're just allies for my Grey Knights... Love new codexs!!

I have Grey Knights as well. Draigo and Mephiston make one tight baddass unit. Just roll on Biomancy for Mephy and hopefully you'll get iron Arm.

These are definitely the rules for the Blood Talon. No rules for the Blood Fist are in the book. The only possible difference is if the my are AP3 since the image is very small. But, I crosschecked it with the other 2s on the page and it matches quite well.

Any mention of changes to red thirst/descent of angels? And any word on what the Hammer of Baal does?

 Carnage43 wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Blood Talons appear to be AP 2. It is really small writing, hence why I am unsure if it is Blood Yell as well.

So let me correct myself. Blood Talon is Strx2, AP2 , Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon.

Sweet, then I am OK with that rule. We lose all the extra attacks when we cause wounds but at least it is now at a good AP and we can re-roll wounds.

Paradigm wrote:So they're a straight upgrade to the fists: you lose nothing and gain Shred. Seems fair if the cost is right.

The "Blood fists" server literally zero purpose now though if talons are as stated. They are just straight up better in every respect.

Not to mention watered down as hell.

We are missing information here, or the rules represents here are for "Blood Fists" and not talons.

I imagine there might be a cost of as much as 15 points attached to the upgrade.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Any mention of changes to red thirst/descent of angels? And any word on what the Hammer of Baal does?

Nope. It only has one small image of two pages, one with the Formation's special rules and the other with equipment. The rules for the Hammer of Baal are likely on Karlaen's data sheet.

Do you have to take Karlean in this Formation?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Any mention of changes to red thirst/descent of angels? And any word on what the Hammer of Baal does?

Nope. It only has one small image of two pages, one with the Formation's special rules and the other with equipment. The rules for the Hammer of Baal are likely on Karlaen's data sheet.

At least now we are getting some rules that should be in the new codex. The next couple of weeks is going to be a nightmare for me. Especially since I fly out to Thailand for 5 weeks on the 12th of December so the codex will be getting released as I'm on a plane. I am going to try and get the limited edition sent to my local store and see about getting a normal copy of the codex sent to me in Thailand where I am staying.

rhavien wrote:
Do you have to take Karlean in this Formation?

Yes. That is how formations work.

Dammit. My gaming group isnt very into SCs...
Man im so pumped about the new codex and stuff, but that box isn't very appealing. More termis I rarely use, another dread and dc which will look odd beside my old ones with their bigger bases... on top of that I have no tyranid player at hand to split the content.

rhavien wrote:
Dammit. My gaming group isnt very into SCs...
Man im so pumped about the new codex and stuff, but that box isn't very appealing. More termis I rarely use, another dread and dc which will look odd beside my old ones with their bigger bases... on top of that I have no tyranid player at hand to split the content.

So your gaming group isnt into playing the game properly? Im a big advocate of "no restrictions" or changes to the rules. Just go straight out of the book.

If they complain, then tell them that youve been playing with a gimped codex for a long time, so they can shove it =)

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
So they're a straight upgrade to the fists: you lose nothing and gain Shred. Seems fair if the cost is right.

It appears that way. Makes them capable of ripping through TEQs pretty well. I wonder what the point difference between blood fists and talons will be. I hope I am right on the AP value.

Blood Fists were just the dumb name for BA specific DCCW.
Walkers now just have a powerfist base, so blood fists can vanish with no practical change.
Blood Claws will likely be an upgrade to the powerfist that costs points.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
So they're a straight upgrade to the fists: you lose nothing and gain Shred. Seems fair if the cost is right.

It appears that way. Makes them capable of ripping through TEQs pretty well. I wonder what the point difference between blood fists and talons will be. I hope I am right on the AP value.

Blood Fists were just the dumb name for BA specific DCCW.
Walkers now just have a powerfist base, so blood fists can vanish with no practical change.
Blood Claws will likely be an upgrade to the powerfist that costs points.

That is what I thought. I would think 10-15 pts to upgrade from the DCCW to the Blood Talon would be reasonable. At least now the Furioso can rip apart basically everything in it's path.

 DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Any mention of changes to red thirst/descent of angels? And any word on what the Hammer of Baal does?

Nope. It only has one small image of two pages, one with the Formation's special rules and the other with equipment. The rules for the Hammer of Baal are likely on Karlaen's data sheet.

At least now we are getting some rules that should be in the new codex. The next couple of weeks is going to be a nightmare for me. Especially since I fly out to Thailand for 5 weeks on the 12th of December so the codex will be getting released as I'm on a plane. I am going to try and get the limited edition sent to my local store and see about getting a normal copy of the codex sent to me in Thailand where I am staying.

You could just buy it in Thailand, you know...

 Thud wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Any mention of changes to red thirst/descent of angels? And any word on what the Hammer of Baal does?

Nope. It only has one small image of two pages, one with the Formation's special rules and the other with equipment. The rules for the Hammer of Baal are likely on Karlaen's data sheet.

At least now we are getting some rules that should be in the new codex. The next couple of weeks is going to be a nightmare for me. Especially since I fly out to Thailand for 5 weeks on the 12th of December so the codex will be getting released as I'm on a plane. I am going to try and get the limited edition sent to my local store and see about getting a normal copy of the codex sent to me in Thailand where I am staying.

You could just buy it in Thailand, you know...

Coughcoughsupportinglocalbusinesscoughcough

 th3maninblak wrote:

rhavien wrote:
Dammit. My gaming group isnt very into SCs...
Man im so pumped about the new codex and stuff, but that box isn't very appealing. More termis I rarely use, another dread and dc which will look odd beside my old ones with their bigger bases... on top of that I have no tyranid player at hand to split the content.

So your gaming group isnt into playing the game properly? Im a big advocate of "no restrictions" or changes to the rules. Just go straight out of the book.

Well, it's a good thing we have you hear to define how to properly play the game.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Blood Yell?

Blood. Yell.

Even if this is some mistranslation and it's Blood Shout or some thing, I mean, srsly?

Why is this even a surprise at this point? Sometimes, I like to imagine that the writers in the Studio have a running bet as to who can slip the most uses of a given buzzword past management. Hearty guffaws and more than a few quid are exchanged down at the local pub every time a new codex makes it to the printers.

But then I look at a campaign boxed set named "Deathstorm" and I realize that we're the ones being laughed at over a pint.

Again, very small type on a very small image. All I know is it is 4-5 letters long.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:

rhavien wrote:
Dammit. My gaming group isnt very into SCs...
Man im so pumped about the new codex and stuff, but that box isn't very appealing. More termis I rarely use, another dread and dc which will look odd beside my old ones with their bigger bases... on top of that I have no tyranid player at hand to split the content.

So your gaming group isnt into playing the game properly? Im a big advocate of "no restrictions" or changes to the rules. Just go straight out of the book.

Well, it's a good thing we have you hear to define how to properly play the game.

I know, right?

But seriously. Not playing with special characters seems a bit silly to me. Theyre a huge part of the game. Its like limiting it to a single detachment and one book all the time.

I know, right? It's almost like single book/detachment was like how it was played for 15 years straight, right? Oh, yeah... single book and single detachment was the standard for 15 years back when GW wasn't shrinking year on year in sales.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Not playing with special characters seems a bit silly to me. Theyre a huge part of the game. Its like limiting it to a single detachment and one book all the time.

Good for you. Some of us like to make our own characters, or feel that special characters are a crutch, or have our own armies/fluff in which special characters don't fit.

Or, to put another way, different people like different things. Doesn't make 'em silly (unless they're a furry).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Not playing with special characters seems a bit silly to me. Theyre a huge part of the game. Its like limiting it to a single detachment and one book all the time.

Good for you. Some of us like to make our own characters, or feel that special characters are a crutch, or have our own armies/fluff in which special characters don't fit.

Or, to put another way, different people like different things. Doesn't make 'em silly (unless they're a furry).

Thank you. Exactly this...I feel that not using SCs is such a common thing, it surprises me every time when people are writing such replies.

 Thud wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Any mention of changes to red thirst/descent of angels? And any word on what the Hammer of Baal does?

Nope. It only has one small image of two pages, one with the Formation's special rules and the other with equipment. The rules for the Hammer of Baal are likely on Karlaen's data sheet.

At least now we are getting some rules that should be in the new codex. The next couple of weeks is going to be a nightmare for me. Especially since I fly out to Thailand for 5 weeks on the 12th of December so the codex will be getting released as I'm on a plane. I am going to try and get the limited edition sent to my local store and see about getting a normal copy of the codex sent to me in Thailand where I am staying.

You could just buy it in Thailand, you know...

I thought about that first but when I checked Games Workshop webstore there isn't an independent retailer in Thailand. I'm sure there used to be though, so I don't know if it's no longer there or just not appearing on the webstore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neronoxx wrote:

 Thud wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Any mention of changes to red thirst/descent of angels? And any word on what the Hammer of Baal does?

Nope. It only has one small image of two pages, one with the Formation's special rules and the other with equipment. The rules for the Hammer of Baal are likely on Karlaen's data sheet.

At least now we are getting some rules that should be in the new codex. The next couple of weeks is going to be a nightmare for me. Especially since I fly out to Thailand for 5 weeks on the 12th of December so the codex will be getting released as I'm on a plane. I am going to try and get the limited edition sent to my local store and see about getting a normal copy of the codex sent to me in Thailand where I am staying.

You could just buy it in Thailand, you know...

Coughcoughsupportinglocalbusinesscoughcough

local business is a bit tricky for me. I am going to Thailand to see my wife and son, hence why I am going for 5 weeks and we do actually have a house out there. So it is kind of local depending on what way you want to look at it.

Sounds local enough!

 warboss wrote:
I know, right? It's almost like single book/detachment was like how it was played for 15 years straight, right? Oh, yeah... single book and single detachment was the standard for 15 years back when GW wasn't shrinking year on year in sales.

Except for every previous edition that allowed allies or multiple book armies. Which was all of them...

Has anybody worked out the approximate points costs of the BA and Tyranid forces in the Deathstorm box?

 pretre wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I know, right? It's almost like single book/detachment was like how it was played for 15 years straight, right? Oh, yeah... single book and single detachment was the standard for 15 years back when GW wasn't shrinking year on year in sales.

Except for every previous edition that allowed allies or multiple book armies. Which was all of them...

What was allowed before is nothing compared with now. If you can't see the difference between a grand total of three codex books from 3rd edition allowing allies from completely different codex books into a limited subset of armies and complete and utter "freedom" to take anything from anywhere... well.. there isn't much I can say that will bring you back to reality. Daemon/Witchhunter plus one other imperial codex or using Craftworld Eldar supplement with the Eldar codex are not the same thing as a space marine, dark eldar, Inquistion, ork, tau, and chaos alliance in one army that is possible now both in battleforged and unbound.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Has anybody worked out the approximate points costs of the BA and Tyranid forces in the Deathstorm box?

Wondering the same here, I know exact values are a no no, but if someone could say if the forces are balanced points wise ?

Someone could probably work out the nids points, but we won't be reliably able to compare the BA until the box lands as DC will probably be having a major overhaul, Termies will probably something in line with the SM dex.

D

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Has anybody worked out the approximate points costs of the BA and Tyranid forces in the Deathstorm box?

Used Army-builder, no rules or stats listed:

BA points, no real idea, given that they are currently way off from the new SM standards.
135+ for the captain (TDA Captain with Thunder Hammer)
215 for a Terminator squad with heavy flamer and chainfist
260 currently price for that DC squad (packs, 1 PF, 1 TH, 1 PW, 1 Infernius Pistol). I'd guess closer to 210 in the new book (call it 20 base, +5 for packs, weapons stay the same)
140 currently for DC dread with talons and magna grapple. I'd guess talons will go to a 5 or 10 point per arm upgrade, so somewhere in the 150-160 range in the new book.

Tyranid points:
60+ points for a named Broodlord HQ Probably closer to 90-100
144 points for 8 genestealers with Scytals
185 for Warriors with 1 Venom cannon, 1 lashwhip/bonesword, 1 dual boneswords, and adrenal glands
145 (165) for carnifex with H Venom cannon and spine banks (+20 more as he looks like he has bioplasma)

As shown, the BA look to have something like a 150 point advantage, assuming pricing changes in the new book, but the Carnifex and warriors as well as Death Company can all rapidly get more expensive depending on builds.

 Theophony wrote:
A switch to 32mm just seems like a you to all the companies out there like dragonforge design, secret weapons and others who have all these custom 25mm bases set up. They've gone after every other company that gets sales off of their goods trying to make them jump through hoops.

Oh gak, I think you're on to something here. Wow.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Blood Yell?

Blood. Yell.

Even if this is some mistranslation and it's Blood Shout or some thing, I mean, srsly?

Why is this even a surprise at this point? Sometimes, I like to imagine that the writers in the Studio have a running bet as to who can slip the most uses of a given buzzword past management. Hearty guffaws and more than a few quid are exchanged down at the local pub every time a new codex makes it to the printers.

But then I look at a campaign boxed set named "Deathstorm" and I realize that we're the ones being laughed at over a pint.

Are we sure sure it's not a misprint of "Bloody 'ell!"?
Maybe Karlean saw the price of the new codex...

 Paradigm wrote:
Are we sure sure it's not a misprint of "Bloody 'ell!"?
Maybe Karlean saw the price of the new codex...

Very droll, Sir

Sorry but from which pic did "Blood Yell" come from originally?

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
A switch to 32mm just seems like a you to all the companies out there like dragonforge design, secret weapons and others who have all these custom 25mm bases set up. They've gone after every other company that gets sales off of their goods trying to make them jump through hoops.

Oh gak, I think you're on to something here. Wow.

That makes the most sense regarding why GW has released new base sizes. Have no idea if it is true or not, but it fits in the way I see GW conducting business.

 LutherMax wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Are we sure sure it's not a misprint of "Bloody 'ell!"?
Maybe Karlean saw the price of the new codex...

Very droll, Sir

Sorry but from which pic did "Blood Yell" come from originally?

I will have to find the page number later, but it is a very tiny image at the bottom of the page in WD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Has anybody worked out the approximate points costs of the BA and Tyranid forces in the Deathstorm box?

I am getting somewhere in the realm of 800 pts for the BA using the old rules. The numbers change if you use some of the rules from C:SM for the Captain and Terminators though. The Termies have at least two chainfists and a heavy flamer. DC have a thunder hammer, a power fist, a power sword, and an inferno pistol. DC Dread has blood talons and a magna grapple.

 Carnage43 wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Blood Talons appear to be AP 2. It is really small writing, hence why I am unsure if it is Blood Yell as well.

So let me correct myself. Blood Talon is Strx2, AP2 , Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon.

Sweet, then I am OK with that rule. We lose all the extra attacks when we cause wounds but at least it is now at a good AP and we can re-roll wounds.

Paradigm wrote:So they're a straight upgrade to the fists: you lose nothing and gain Shred. Seems fair if the cost is right.

The "Blood fists" server literally zero purpose now though if talons are as stated. They are just straight up better in every respect.

Not to mention watered down as hell.

We are missing information here, or the rules represents here are for "Blood Fists" and not talons.

Something doesn't seem quite right, but then this is GW we're talking about.

The Muderfang is S7 AP2 with it's claws, and this would be the first claw to double strength ?

Shred seems kinda pointless on S10, as you're only really re-rolling 1's.
Depending on the cost of claws vs fists, you're only ever going to take one or the other. Cheap and you'll always take claws. Expensive and you'll always take fists.

I am not discounting the possibility of the Blood Talon being +2 not ×2.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am not discounting the possibility of the Blood Talon being +2 not ×2.

And furiosos are S6 base right? So S8 ap2. Pretty cool. Depends on the price really though. Shred in this case would only be useful against high T units like MCs, so maybe...

That makes more sense if Blood fists remain x2 S.

D

There is a greater version of the Wolf Claw that is Stx2, AP 2, Melee, Specialist, Shred in the wolf codex. Murderfangs claws are different.

Sounds like the Blood Talon will match the super Wolf Claw rather than Murderfang's Murderclaws.

Jefffar wrote:
There is a greater version of the Wolf Claw that is Stx2, AP 2, Melee, Specialist, Shred in the wolf codex. Murderfangs claws are different.

Sounds like the Blood Talon will match the super Wolf Claw rather than Murderfang's Murderclaws.

You forgot "of Murder"....

Either way I am planning on getting the Box Set I can use everything, even the Terminators. The Dread will also make a good Proxy for Murderfang. The Nids will just go to the Nid Player.

 warboss wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I know, right? It's almost like single book/detachment was like how it was played for 15 years straight, right? Oh, yeah... single book and single detachment was the standard for 15 years back when GW wasn't shrinking year on year in sales.

Except for every previous edition that allowed allies or multiple book armies. Which was all of them...

What was allowed before is nothing compared with now. If you can't see the difference between a grand total of three codex books from 3rd edition allowing allies from completely different codex books into a limited subset of armies and complete and utter "freedom" to take anything from anywhere... well.. there isn't much I can say that will bring you back to reality. Daemon/Witchhunter plus one other imperial codex or using Craftworld Eldar supplement with the Eldar codex are not the same thing as a space marine, dark eldar, Inquistion, ork, tau, and chaos alliance in one army that is possible now both in battleforged and unbound.

I wasn't saying it was exactly the same as before; I said that allies existed and hence your declarative statement was incorrect 'single book/detachment was how it was played for 15 years...'. Because it was.

And I said it was the standard, not that it was impossible to play otherwise. You may be surprised to find that rules/statements can have minority exceptions and yet still be true. In any case, it's derailing the thread so I'm done discussing it.

That's right, run...

Anyone got more info on the SOB detachments yet?

Whatever, It's more unusual when this thread stays on topic.

 pretre wrote:

Anyone got more info on the SOB detachments yet?

Is it confirmed that there are SOB detachments in it? I saw someone post some SOB art though.

Not that I've seen. There's sob missions and fluff though.

There was no datasheets or detachments in Shield of Baal: Leviathan except for Tyranids.

Missions? There definitely are some Sisters ones in there, and the fluff book has quite a bit about the Sisters.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Good for you. Some of us like to make our own characters, or feel that special characters are a crutch, or have our own armies/fluff in which special characters don't fit.

Or, to put another way, different people like different things. Doesn't make 'em silly (unless they're a furry).

Sure. And no one is forcing you to use special characters. You are free to use them or not to use them, and so should your opponent.

Oh lord, take the special character talk to PMs if you all want to make a fuss about who does what or doesn't do what. Unless you live by each other and play each other it doesn't matter, you have no impact on each other.

So, to swing us back, pre-orders go up tomorrow (about 18 hours from now), right?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So, to swing us back, pre-orders go up tomorrow (about 18 hours from now), right?

Friday night GMT it should be. I'm still in two minds if I should pick it up or not.

Which means about 7am for those of us in east coast Australia.

I'm going to just because the model value inside far outstrips the cost of the box. The BA models alone cover the full cost. And...I can't pass up a BA exclusive mini.

Combined with DV and Stormclaw, I can do a nice little combined army that has BA, DA, SW and my standard Ultras. It'd look interesting.

Plus, y'know, more 'Nids. What's an 11th Carnifex to someone who already has 10?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Which means about 7am for those of us in east coast Australia.

The preorders would go up 2 to 2:30pm EST here in the East Coast of the US; which I think is more like 5am for the East Coast of Australia.

Looking at the Void Shield generator thread, and my posts in that thread, they went up at about 7am.

Of course that was before daylight savings... hmm...

All I can do is mention the 2-2:30pm EST thing for the US. That's the timeframe when I see the preorders go up, with most of them hitting around 2:15.

Khaine was 2:20 and sold out by 2:23 or 2:24.

Melbourne is currently GMT+11, if that helps any?

According to conversions, it's 6am East Coast Oz for 2pm East Coast US.

Looks like another all-nighter for me. It's ok. Got plenty of Borderlands to play.

Perfect.

Just logged on to see if I could find out when this went on sale for East Coast of Australia and bang there it is.

Plus I usually wake up around 6:00am, so no biggy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
According to conversions, it's 6am East Coast Oz for 2pm East Coast US.

Looks like another all-nighter for me. It's ok. Got plenty of Borderlands to play.

I never claimed to be great at math!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's an 11th Carnifex to someone who already has 10?

You know what's better than 11? 12. Better buy two boxes.

 Sidstyler wrote:
You know what's better than 11? 12. Better buy two boxes.

No need. Just bitz order another body. There's enough other stuff in the box to make three Carnifexes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
You know what's better than 11? 12. Better buy two boxes.

No need. Just bitz order another body. There's enough other stuff in the box to make three Carnifexes.

But then you'd have 13, that's no good. Need another one at least to make 14, because 14's a lucky number.

I like the yellow stripes they painted on the carapace of some of the models, too, I just noticed that earlier. Reminds me of the kaiju from Pacific Rim.

I wouldn't mind having 12 fragiosos as well from a BA player perspective.

 Sidstyler wrote:
But then you'd have 13, that's no good. Need another one at least to make 14, because 14's a lucky number.

I like the yellow stripes they painted on the carapace of some of the models, too, I just noticed that earlier. Reminds me of the kaiju from Pacific Rim.

Not quite.

I currently have 5 (I think) unbuilt Carnifexes, and 5 built, and another one build, but I did the ol' Carnifex torso flip so he's huge and tall and standing upright (I've used him as a big Hive Tyrant). I'm probably going to do that again.

I have 6 Dakka Fexes, 2 Stone Crusher, 1 old 3rd edition and a Stone Crusher Plastic Old one eye conversion. I feel my 11th will come in like a wrecking ball.

Is this boxset likely to be that limited? Did the SW vs Orks one sell out very quickly?

The online ones did in some regions,

but the shop stock hung around a bit longer

 Souleater wrote:
Is this boxset likely to be that limited? Did the SW vs Orks one sell out very quickly?

It took two days for the Stormclaw set to go out of stock online here in the US.

When it comes to models, they seem to last a bit longer than books.

Okay. Cheers.

My own local store has 8 Stomclaw boxes still, and even more Space Hulk so 'limited' isn't a real thing in some places.

My local GW (Coventry, so a city of 300,000+ people) had Stormclaw boxes available 2 weeks after release. I think it is just pot luck really Souleater. If you want a box or 2 direct from GW I would recommending pre-ordering from your local store, if you have one. Maybe the fact that it would be an ideal Christmas present may see it sell out quicker?

So I live in Sweden, how fast do you figure they will sell out? I'm pretty sure the Storm Claw or what ever it was named hanged around for several weeks.

I am going to try to get the Blood Angels half of the box at my FLGS, but if that doesn't work I will probably be able to get the whole thing at one of my other stores I frequent. I added a ton of stuff to my Amazon wishlist for my birthday coming up.

Just for the sake of completeness:

The box is $125 for effectively $322 worth of product.
The only things I did not factor into this price were the Captain and Broodlord, as neither model can reliably be priced out IMO.

If one had to price them? You'd be looking at another $24.75(current price on the existing Broodlord figure--more likely $30) for the Broodlord and $37-$40 on the Captain figure(closest pricing estimate is the Ork Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun box)--bringing the contents of the box up to a price tag of $383.75 just going off list prices.

The rulebook price I used was the $58 for the hardback mini rulebook since it's "just" the rules and the nearest analogue.

From Nafta:

This is really fun, as the latest has us seeing a new Blood Angel Codex, Tacticals, Sanguinary Priest, and wait for it.......... Smaug. Yes, no one really thought a Smaug would be built, but its happening. Also a new Blood Angel codex going up for pre-orders, its going to be a great week.


Please remember that these are rumors, but are very reliable. These are next week's pre-orders.

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Lots of releases next week including some surprises. There are lots of hobbit releases, including Smaug. Smaug is extremely huge will be listed for expert modelers only. Of course he is going to cost you almost 500 dollars US, but this is a huge model standing over lots of gold and two columns with Bilbo hiding beneath.

Blood angels get their codex next week. The cover is an assault marine wielding a plasma pistol and and chainsword, overall a nice looking cover.

Blood Angels also get new datacards and dice, but more importantly blood angels get a new tactical squad with lots of options. Shoulder pads, helmets and blood angel symbols are everywhere. It looks like a full box of bits. Heavy Flamer is also in the box.

Last but least there is a new Sanguinary Priest with with a extra machinery on the backpack, a blood chalice, and a nice looking chainsword.

Indeed. We shall see, but it'd make sense to put the codex out shortly (Which unfortunately makes the rumor more believable whether or not there's any truth to it, as does the inclusion of the often rumored Sanguinary Priest in plastic finally).

Gotta say I'll be surprised if the BA specific tactical squad kit is true. I might have expected a special jump kit box that makes regular assault marines, vanguard vets, and a command squad but definitely wasn't expecting tacticals.

I'm calling bull on the new Tactical Squad, we just got one of those. Might be a new Assault Squad, though.

Interesting to hear about Smaug, but he looks to be about 3x as much as I would be comfortable paying...

Yeah, I am calling BS on a Blood Angels Tactical box. Their tactical squads are essentially the same as C:SM. This isn't like Space Wolves. It would be different if it was an Assault Squad box since they do use a lot of different, exclusive weapons.

I'm calling bull on the Smaug rumor...

Maybe that Smaug kit is the WETA one that was linked here somewhere in N&R a few weeks back. Wasn't that one around $500 as well?

If it is true then I can see them moving assault marines into the FA slot and then giving us a detachment much like the DE with 6 FA slots or in the supplement there is a formation which allows you to take more assault marines. I'd rather see a new assault box though

Whilst grey hunters are definitely different to tac marines, we don't know whether someones gone and done something mental at GW and made it so blood angel tac marines are very different to standard tac marines now.

Just gotta wait and see. Could get power weapons in tac squads yet for example.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Whilst grey hunters are definitely different to tac marines, we don't know whether someones gone and done something mental at GW and made it so blood angel tac marines are very different to standard tac marines now.

Just gotta wait and see. Could get power weapons in tac squads yet for example.

JP-less assault marines....aka BP/CCW tacticals for blood angels?

A Blood Angels tactical squad is almost the last possible thing anyone could want for a new release, really hoping this one is false.

Or maybe, just maybe, we'll see a tactical marine wilth 2x specials, bolter, BP and CCW?

Space Wolves will eat their beer mugs in frustration, I bet.

Won't happen, but a man can dream.

Could be something as simple as less static poses as well, more running legs along with the rumoured decorative parts, even if the guys have bolters.

Personally, I'm just going to wait a week and see what pics turn up of the models or any rules in the new codex rather than calling anything BS.

 Reality-Torrent wrote:
So I live in Sweden, how fast do you figure they will sell out? I'm pretty sure the Storm Claw or what ever it was named hanged around for several weeks.

Hah, my FLGS still has half a dozen Stormclaw boxes left (and 8 to 10 Space Hulks). GW games are popular, but for whatever reason players here are pretty cynical about 'limited release' thing.

I would be okay if it was a box with ten marines with jump packs.

Backfire wrote:

 Reality-Torrent wrote:
So I live in Sweden, how fast do you figure they will sell out? I'm pretty sure the Storm Claw or what ever it was named hanged around for several weeks.

Hah, my FLGS still has half a dozen Stormclaw boxes left (and 8 to 10 Space Hulks). GW games are popular, but for whatever reason players here are pretty cynical about 'limited release' thing.

My FLGS got ONE copy of Stormclaw.
My FLGS told me last week they won't be able to get Deathstorm.
I'm finding a new FLGS

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm calling bull on the Smaug rumor...

The beasts of war guys have mentioned a smaug about 6 months ago, they tend to have some inside info so it may be possible.

Of course, how big it ends up being and the cost it will come in at are a different matter entirely.

I just got my pre-order conformation from Neal at The War Store on Shield of Baal. The invoice states "EXTREMELY LIMITED RELEASE", so get your F5 buttons ready!

Wouldn't it be awesome if the Blood Angel's Tactical Squad had the same nipple armor the Sanguinary Guard had ?

NoggintheNog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm calling bull on the Smaug rumor...

The beasts of war guys have mentioned a smaug about 6 months ago, they tend to have some inside info so it may be possible.

Of course, how big it ends up being and the cost it will come in at are a different matter entirely.

GW basically came out and said they wouldn't do Smaug because of the fact that the scale required would make it huge.

 Kanluwen wrote:

NoggintheNog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm calling bull on the Smaug rumor...

The beasts of war guys have mentioned a smaug about 6 months ago, they tend to have some inside info so it may be possible.

Of course, how big it ends up being and the cost it will come in at are a different matter entirely.

GW basically came out and said they wouldn't do Smaug because of the fact that the scale required would make it huge.

I guess this is the point we hope that FW does it

The tac squad includes 10 extra bases to model the weapons theve left behind while going ragey, and assaulting the enemy with bare hands

It could quite possibly be forge world that has done it but under a GW banner for licensing reasons I presume if anything.

If it is expensive as it is rumoured, it would make sense that it is done that way like FW do with the titans, they presumably only do short production runs on an as needed basis. They surely won't actually sell the model in shop so it will be GW direct or something.

For those set to pummel F5 in the near future, it is currently 1815 GMT, so if you look at the time code on this post in your local area, that should allow you to work out when to do so in earnest.

Probably around 45mins to an hour...

Could the tac squad be basically the same sprues as the latest tac squad box but with certain bits removed and new bits added?

I really don't know much about how easy to edit a sprue would be (I mean the designs are all CAD now right?), seems very strange that we'd get a specific tac marine sprue, but HFs in our TAC squads would be pretty cool.

D

 JudgeShamgar wrote:
I just got my pre-order conformation from Neal at The War Store on Shield of Baal. The invoice states "EXTREMELY LIMITED RELEASE", so get your F5 buttons ready!

How did you get that? I emailed him a few days ago and he never responded.

Thanks Judge, headed over to The War Store now! He gave me a great deal on the Sector Imperialis!

 theharrower wrote:

 JudgeShamgar wrote:
I just got my pre-order conformation from Neal at The War Store on Shield of Baal. The invoice states "EXTREMELY LIMITED RELEASE", so get your F5 buttons ready!

How did you get that? I emailed him a few days ago and he never responded.

I sent in my order this morning. I figured that even if GW hadn't released it yet, their distributors would at least know about it.

I guess I just timed it right.

They didn't have any White Dwarf #44 left though.

 evildrcheese wrote:
Could the tac squad be basically the same sprues as the latest tac squad box but with certain bits removed and new bits added?

I really don't know much about how easy to edit a sprue would be (I mean the designs are all CAD now right?), seems very strange that we'd get a specific tac marine sprue, but HFs in our TAC squads would be pretty cool.

D

The cost of plastic kits is in the very substantial metal moulds that must be milled to within extremely small tolerances. Historically these were valued in the tens of thousands, but technology has progressed as wells as GW owning their own equipment, reducing the costs.

This is why we now have the mini sprues with characters on, but the set up costs for a new mould are still the biggest consideration, and would be essentially the same if you redesigned a kit from scratch or just altered some bits or some iconography. The time taken to redesign a kit would obviously be a lot longer, but as nearly all GW creatives (possibly all?) are salaried, cost of labour is not something GW has to consider in the same way as a company using outside, freelance, talent like Mierce, Kingdom Death and some of the other smaller manufacturers do.

Steel Molds can be modular, I think, so in theory you could switch out parts of the molds for different bits... But I could be very wrong in this - and I don't know if GW does it.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Yeah, I am calling BS on a Blood Angels Tactical box. Their tactical squads are essentially the same as C:SM. This isn't like Space Wolves. It would be different if it was an Assault Squad box since they do use a lot of different, exclusive weapons.

Isn't that pretty much what the Death Company box already is?

F5... F5... F5... F5...

 Kanluwen wrote:
GW basically came out and said they wouldn't do Smaug because of the fact that the scale required would make it huge.

Not to mention pointless, as no one plays The Hobbit.

 Kanluwen wrote:

GW basically came out and said they wouldn't do Smaug because of the fact that the scale required would make it huge.

Link?

I think you confuse "GW basically came out and said.." with "Random rumour-monger came out and claimed that GW said..."

It's up for pre-order!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's up for pre-order!

Ordered

Ordered.

I also notice that the codex and Sanguinary Priest is no-longer available.

Ordered too.

Interestingly both characters are advertised as "only currently available in this set". A big hint to a future individual release?

Now I can go get some dinner!

TheIncredibleBulk wrote:
Ordered.

I also notice that the codex and Sanguinary Priest is no-longer available.

Also Sanguinary Guard and Death Company boxes. Repackaging with 32mm bases?!

Oh and "Ordered" ;-)

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

GW basically came out and said they wouldn't do Smaug because of the fact that the scale required would make it huge.

Link?

I think you confuse "GW basically came out and said.." with "Random rumour-monger came out and claimed that GW said..."

Do you really think there's going to be a link to it?

But anyways, it's a stipulation of the contract with New Line Cinema that things be done in a "more realistic scale".

Do the math on Smaug's wingspan from the film. He would be almost as large as a ROB tile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Interestingly both characters are advertised as "only currently available in this set". A big hint to a future individual release?

One would hope, but I cannot find the same language that was used for Stormclaw.

Ordered! Looking forward to next week!

Hope the codex rumours are true!

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Interestingly both characters are advertised as "only currently available in this set". A big hint to a future individual release?

I think they said the same about Captain Agemann from Strike Force Ultra. He has yet to materialise, so I wouldn't get your hopes up too much.

Ordered two

TheIncredibleBulk wrote:
Ordered.

I also notice that the codex and Sanguinary Priest is no-longer available.

I checked for the codex this morning and it was there. After the store update it is now gone from the US site as well.

Did anyone save pics of the Sanguinary Priest and codex that they can post?

 warboss wrote:
Did anyone save pics of the Sanguinary Priest and codex that they can post?

They're referring to the current/soon to be outdated ones.

BTW,has anyone noticed that the carnifex is also on an oval base now?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Yeah, I am calling BS on a Blood Angels Tactical box. Their tactical squads are essentially the same as C:SM. This isn't like Space Wolves. It would be different if it was an Assault Squad box since they do use a lot of different, exclusive weapons.

Isn't that pretty much what the Death Company box already is?

No, Death Company is Death Company. It is covered in Death Company symbols. Unless they releases a New, dual purpose kit.

Death Company are missing from the US GW site

 Kanluwen wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Did anyone save pics of the Sanguinary Priest and codex that they can post?

They're referring to the current/soon to be outdated ones.

Ah, thanks. My bad.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Do you really think there's going to be a link to it?

But anyways, it's a stipulation of the contract with New Line Cinema that things be done in a "more realistic scale".

Do the math on Smaug's wingspan from the film. He would be almost as large as a ROB tile.

How do you know there is such a stipulation in the contract?

That contract is surely one of GW's most closely guarded secret. I call BS.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Interestingly both characters are advertised as "only currently available in this set". A big hint to a future individual release?

I think they said the same about Captain Agemann from Strike Force Ultra. He has yet to materialise, so I wouldn't get your hopes up too much.

I never knew that, and Agemann goes for silly money, cheers Para.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Interestingly both characters are advertised as "only currently available in this set". A big hint to a future individual release?

GW are being very careful with phrasing on these limited run products. If they stated something like "limited edition" they wouldn't legally be allowed to sell the same products once the initial batch was sold. However by using phrases like "currently only available in this set" and "while stocks last" it creates the impression of a limited edition, but leaves them the option of re-releasing it in future (like they did with Space Hulk).

 Jinx Magiga wrote:
BTW,has anyone noticed that the carnifex is also on an oval base now?

Yeah, not a fan of that.

I hate myself, but I had to buy it. That Broodlord was just too cool.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Jinx Magiga wrote:
BTW,has anyone noticed that the carnifex is also on an oval base now?

Yeah, not a fan of that.

Take foamcore, or something similar. Trace new base on it and cut it out. Take Old base, trace and cut out of middle of new base. instant conversion ring !!

Somebody at GW must think that ovals are bloody brilliant.

On the plus side, ovals are porbably better than 120mm circles

 adamsouza wrote:
On the plus side, ovals are porbably better than 120mm circles

They're really not. They cause all sorts of headaches with GW's poorly defined movement rules.

 adamsouza wrote:
Death Company are missing from the US GW site

And the UK site.

Ok ... I pre-ordered at my Local Shop ... he is getting 4 and one is mine. Not sure what to do with the 'Nids though ... have no use for them right now. Paint them or sell them? Sell them for how much?

Oz sites missing almost everything in the BA section.

Ordered mine from Darksphere for an awesome £56.25

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
Ok ... I pre-ordered at my Local Shop ... he is getting 4 and one is mine. Not sure what to do with the 'Nids though ... have no use for them right now. Paint them or sell them? Sell them for how much?

Ebay em for 70% retail and still make most of the cost of the box back

 Melcavuk wrote:
Ordered mine from Darksphere for an awesome £56.25

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
Ok ... I pre-ordered at my Local Shop ... he is getting 4 and one is mine. Not sure what to do with the 'Nids though ... have no use for them right now. Paint them or sell them? Sell them for how much?

Ebay em for 70% retail and still make most of the cost of the box back

.... did not know that I could get that much for them ... will do so. Thank you.

 Melcavuk wrote:
Ordered mine from Darksphere for an awesome £56.25

Nearly £10 delivery charge though...that said still a great price. I think you could sell the mini rulebook and 2 characters and re-coup that costs, so the rest is free toys! Also worth noting that if transfers are not your thing the Stormclaw transfer sheet sold quite well on the secondary market and this set has an exclusive transfer sheet too.

Got mine from the Outpost. £60 inc delivery.

Preordered mine from my FLGS. I may or may not end up with the Tyranid portion of the boxed set. Can't wait to start Blood Angels.

Source: http://astropate.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/white-dwarf-45-nuovi-angeli-sanguinari.html

More pictures by clicking link.

Really tempting to get. Looks like it might have a Blood angel formation much like StormClaw did for the wolves and orks. "Shield of Baal: Deathstorm contains the Blood Angels Strike Force Deathstorm, and the Tyranids’ Phodian Annihilation Swarm" so really tempting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just noticed, if you buy from the email is it $125 US, but off the Webstore it is $150 US.

And those are the new 32mm bases too.

Wow, that's a really early leak of next week's White Dwarf.

Makes it look like a new Tactical box though (guess for new ASM it's time to just mod those), based heavily off the DC box. Makes sense since most of it's already created and they just need to remove the DC iconography, though they should do one for ASM too.

I would have said the possibility that it has jet packs included is still there, but being a 10-man box I doubt they'd be able to cram them in.

So yeah, cue more complaining from already frustrated BA players about how the last thing they needed was new tactical Marines. Like I said before, everyone was just going to be disappointed by this release anyway and was just kidding themselves if they thought otherwise. I guess there's still hope for a competitive codex with multiple viable army builds and great internal balance, but I think we all know GW well enough to know that's a fool's hope from the start.

Tactical Heavy Flamers is sweet.

I like how so many of you stomped on the rumours before even giving them a chance to breathe. The Tac squad, Codex, Smaug... all of it true rofl!

Why have they made this? Molds are expensive, we just got an ultra-awesome new Tactical Squad set last October, Assault Marines are languishing with a comparatively ancient kit. It makes no sense, and while it looks great, I can see it doing too well unless it is sufficiently unique, maybe with more CCW or Jump Packs, and especially not if it's more expensive than the SW, CSM and Tactical boxes.

OMG! BA Tac squads can take Heavy flamers?! Dammit! I've been wanting that option for ages for CSM's.

Dear lord, I hope the Devi squads can't take 4 of them... Good night sweet enemy infantry, while also simultaneously peeing the poor Sisters pond. (though Sisters are probably very used to that by now! )

So that Broodlord is on a 75mm oval base.. that's pretty f'n big.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
And those are the new 32mm bases too.

SolentSanguine wrote:

TheIncredibleBulk wrote:
Ordered.

I also notice that the codex and Sanguinary Priest is no-longer available.

Also Sanguinary Guard and Death Company boxes. Repackaging with 32mm bases?!

Oh and "Ordered" ;-)

Yeah, it says:


This box set contains 25 Citadel miniatures, including: 1 Blood Angels Terminator Captain, 1 Furioso Dreadnaught, 5 Death Company Space Marines, 5 Space Marine Terminators, 1 Broodlord, 8 Genestealers, 3 Tyranid Warriors and 1 Carnifex.

It also includes a Deathstorm transfer sheet, 1 Dreadnaught Base, 6 x 40mm Round Bases, 5 x 32mm Round Bases, 9 x 25mm Round Bases, 3 x 50mm Round Bases, 1 x 105mm Oval Base and 1 x 75mm Oval Base.

If you look at the photo:

The 1 dreadnaught obviously goes on the dreadnaught base
The 1 Carnifex goes on the 105mm Oval
The 1 Broodlord goes on the 75mm Oval
The 5 terminators & 1 terminator captain goes on the 6 x 40mm
The 8 genestealers are on 25mm
The 3 Tyranid warriors go on the 3 x 50mm Round

That leaves 5x32 mm rounds for the jump pack sanguinary guard, and one more 25mm base for..?

Hmmmmm... what am I missing?

Edit: actually, that comes to 26 bases, and 25 miniatures. Is there an extra minor model that comes with one of the sprues?

 Paradigm wrote:
Why have they made this? Molds are expensive, we just got an ultra-awesome new Tactical Squad set last October, Assault Marines are languishing with a comparatively ancient kit. It makes no sense, and while it looks great, I can see it doing too well unless it is sufficiently unique, maybe with more CCW or Jump Packs, and especially if it's more expensive than the SW, CSM and Tactical boxes.

I just use Vanguard vets as my assault squads for my Dark Angels.

 insaniak wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
On the plus side, ovals are porbably better than 120mm circles

They're really not. They cause all sorts of headaches with GW's poorly defined movement rules.

Yes, I agree. I don't like oval bases -- I will mount it onto a nice, resin 120mm round. It's not a special base anyhow.

Blood Angels with Gravguns!

 Paradigm wrote:
Why have they made this? Molds are expensive, we just got an ultra-awesome new Tactical Squad set last October, Assault Marines are languishing with a comparatively ancient kit. It makes no sense, and while it looks great, I can see it doing too well unless it is sufficiently unique, maybe with more CCW or Jump Packs, and especially if it's more expensive than the SW, CSM and Tactical boxes.

To be fair, the DC already work pretty well for BA jump troops. They have all the CC weapons you could possibly want in that kit (aside from LCs) and are modeled to be Jump Troops more than tac squads. It's not perfect, but I'll actually take the TACs over another BA jump troop box.

Is that a new heavy bolter underneath the knight in the background, looks similar to sternguard one but the marine is painted like a standard tactical/devastator. Potentially new devastators or included in the tactical squad kit?

I didn't go for the boxset, great value for money but nothing i really wanted. But I do like that tac squad, it looks like a 10 man DC box, which is a nice idea.

I'm still hoping for a new Mephiston.

Huh, a completely pointless new box of models save for the heavy flamer. I like the molding though. Will probably pick one or two up and get some jump packs from a bits seller and make some Assault Squads.

Talys wrote:

That leaves 5x32 mm rounds for the jump pack sanguinary guard, and one more 25mm base for..?

Hmmmmm... what am I missing?

Edit: actually, that comes to 26 bases, and 25 miniatures. Is there an extra minor model that comes with one of the sprues?

Terminator kit comes with that strange teleport homer piece that goes on the last base.

I like the new BA Tactical Box. Price is the outlier, obviously.

 TheKbob wrote:
I like the new BA Tactical Box. Price is the outlier, obviously.

Probably 25 GBP

 Paradigm wrote:
Why have they made this? Molds are expensive, we just got an ultra-awesome new Tactical Squad set last October, Assault Marines are languishing with a comparatively ancient kit. It makes no sense, and while it looks great, I can see it doing too well unless it is sufficiently unique, maybe with more CCW or Jump Packs, and especially not if it's more expensive than the SW, CSM and Tactical boxes.

It could just be a new accessory sprue along with the regular tactical squad sprues. They already did a similar thing for DA, with a couple alternative bodies plus all the other themed junk.

I'll be really interested to see some of these new marines up against a ruler

I wonder if the move to 32mm bases could be because they've decided to move their scale/size up just a little bit too. It would give plenty of opportunity to re-release kits by reusing digital assets without having to produce loads of new units and rules. It would also explain a the marines release when they already exist in basically the same form

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I like the new BA Tactical Box. Price is the outlier, obviously.

Probably 25 GBP

I'd probably get a box (offline for 30% off MRSP) at that price just to collect. Yes, legitly collect. BA are my favorite faction having read most of the games codices. I probably will skip rulesbooks and what not, but some good new character models and what not would be nice.

 xttz wrote:

It could just be a new accessory sprue along with the regular tactical squad sprues.

It's not. It is obviously a completely new kit.

 xttz wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Why have they made this? Molds are expensive, we just got an ultra-awesome new Tactical Squad set last October, Assault Marines are languishing with a comparatively ancient kit. It makes no sense, and while it looks great, I can see it doing too well unless it is sufficiently unique, maybe with more CCW or Jump Packs, and especially not if it's more expensive than the SW, CSM and Tactical boxes.

It could just be a new accessory sprue along with the regular tactical squad sprues. They already did a similar thing for DA, with a couple alternative bodies plus all the other themed junk.

True enough, a lot of bits are clearly cloned from the DC box and the new Tac squad, but I can't see it being Tac+upgrade sprue, there's too much BA specific stuff to just be one sprue and there would be a lot of dead weight including two. I'm guessing two retooled sprues, £30, and probably with different weapons to the Tac box.

So, from the pics we can infer that BA have gravity weapons, and Tac Squads have a heavy flamer option..

Never mind, there was a whole extra large of posts I'd missed!

We can also see that the game is, in fact, moving to 32mm bases if you compare those shots with traditional tacticals.

Doesn't look like a new kit, aren't all those bits from Sanguinary Guard, Death Company and the new Tactical Squad?

Santtu wrote:
Doesn't look like a new kit, aren't all those bits from Sanguinary Guard, Death Company and the new Tactical Squad?

Several bits are direct copies of DC bits, but the WD says it's a new kit.

 Paradigm wrote:
Why have they made this? Molds are expensive, we just got an ultra-awesome new Tactical Squad set last October

You answered your own question; Ultra-awesome. The new tactical squad was for the Codex chapters only. All the special snowflakes need to have their own box to set them apart because, as it's been argued repeatedly from the start, they're all significantly different from regular Codex chapters and warrant having all their own stuff (plus, ruleswise at least, all the cool stuff the Codex chapters get, so that there's absolutely no reason to play vanilla Marines...but you know...GW isn't that stupid).

You can't use a regular tactical squad box because it doesn't have loincloths, bowl cuts, or wings/goblets/blood drop iconography. This kit was absolutely necessary.

 TheKbob wrote:
We can also see that the game is, in fact, moving to 32mm bases if you compare those shots with traditional tacticals.

The game? I find that unlikely. Marine models moving to 32mm, though, that much seems apparent.

Far too early to start claiming this is a huge, gamewide change that will affect every infantry model mounted on a 25mm base.

Why I don't believe the game is moving to 32mm; because the genestealers in the new box still come on 25mm bases. Why introduce a new base size for one half of the box and not the other when everyone is getting the new base size anyway? They even made a new base for the carnifex apparently so it seems an odd thing to skip over.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Huh, a completely pointless new box of models save for the heavy flamer. ...Will probably pick one or two up...

So then not entirely pointless, it would seem?

Santtu wrote:
Doesn't look like a new kit, aren't all those bits from Sanguinary Guard, Death Company and the new Tactical Squad?

Welcome to digital sculpting. Why make new stuff when you can copy/paste old stuff and call it new stuff?

Oh, and charge a premium for it, too.

Wow that kit looks awesome.

 TheKbob wrote:
We can also see that the game is, in fact, moving to 32mm bases if you compare those shots with traditional tacticals.

I dunno, they don't look different enough for me to say definitively.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
Ok ... I pre-ordered at my Local Shop ... he is getting 4 and one is mine. Not sure what to do with the 'Nids though ... have no use for them right now. Paint them or sell them? Sell them for how much?

I'm in the same position. Chances are I'll keep the Nids, why knows, one day I might start a Nid army...

D

 th3maninblak wrote:
Wow that kit looks awesome.

Oh, come now, I'm mean, I'm a long way from pulling my hair out over it or hurling myself around my living room with indignation, but it doesn't really look like anything more than a kit bash.

It's a nice thing for BA players, and will be another nice source of bits to customise the C:SM kits with BA icons, but awesome is over stating it a tad, I think you might have just have been waiting too long!

 Sidstyler wrote:

The game? I find that unlikely. Marine models moving to 32mm, though, that much seems apparent.

Far too early to start claiming this is a huge, gamewide change that will affect every infantry model mounted on a 25mm base.

Gretchin will look silly on 32mm bases.

I'm not big fan of this new base policy. OK, 32mm bases make sense for Jump infantry (and probably they'd be better for Terminators as well), but Tactical marines are just fine on 25mm bases. Also, the base size creep just keeps coming - now we have models which were doing fine on 60mm bases moved to oval bases...why? Oval bases are, as already noted, troublesome. Also oversized bases are just annoying in gameplay, and make template weapons less effective - already small blast weapons tend to be quite pointless as they almost never catch more than 2 hits at the time.

I'd be happier if somebody from GW explained the thinking behind it, if we had an idea of the thinking behind it, it might be easier to make a call on whether it was good, bad or neutral.

Not that that's going to happen.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Wow that kit looks awesome.

Oh, come now, I'm mean, I'm a long way from pulling my hair out over it or hurling myself around my living room with indignation, but it doesn't really look like anything more than a kit bash.

It's a nice thing for BA players, and will be another nice source of bits to customise the C:SM kits with BA icons, but awesome is over stating it a tad, I think you might have just have been waiting too long!

The LGS i play at has a bunch of the sick pre heresy style jump packs from Maxmini, so ill just buy the tac marines and make them into jump infantry. The power sword and some of the bits look new, and it seems like itll be a great buy for conversions if nothing else

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'd be happier if somebody from GW explained the thinking behind it, if we had an idea of the thinking behind it, it might be easier to make a call on whether it was good, bad or neutral.

Not that that's going to happen.

Imagine the troubles GW might have navigated if they just gave people some idea of their goals with the game.

 Accolade wrote:

Imagine the troubles GW might have navigated if they just gave people some idea of their goals with the game.

Collecting is the hobby, the game is just something to do with your collectibles. Agreeing about what kind of game you'd like to play before playing it is imperative.

That's the general tone from the White Dwarf articles these days. Not something I want to play, let alone fork over mountains of cash towards.

TACTICALHEAVYFLAMERTACTICALHEAVYFLAMERTACTICALHEAVYFLAMER

*passes out*

Soooo cool...

Also, multiple Crusader pattern helmets in one box? Yes please. I don't care that I already have six tactical squads. Buying 1 box at least.

 Accolade wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'd be happier if somebody from GW explained the thinking behind it, if we had an idea of the thinking behind it, it might be easier to make a call on whether it was good, bad or neutral.

Not that that's going to happen.

Imagine the troubles GW might have navigated if they just gave people some idea of their goals with the game.

I'm guessing the word you were looking for was "mitigated".

And at this point, I don't think Games Workshop sees any reason to share that information. They'll just get the same bajillion different opinions like they do now, but won't have an excuse for not replying to those complaints.

Sidstyler wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Huh, a completely pointless new box of models save for the heavy flamer. ...Will probably pick one or two up...

So then not entirely pointless, it would seem?

I said pointless, not bad. It looks really cool, but it really doesn't bring anything new to the table. I will be getting one or two so I can buy jump packs for them to make jump infantry.

Interesting. From the photos on the link....

Anyone notice the grav-gun?

The thing that really confuses my about the base size is the fact that geensteeles are still on the small ones.. so that is clearly not going away as a size, but it dont make sense having normal marines on 32mm

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Interesting. From the photos on the link....

Anyone notice the grav-gun?

A couple of people referenced it. Still, pretty cool they get them. Poor Dark Angels don't get squat.

The marines often don't fit well on the 25mm, so honestly it does make sense to up the base size.

so the death company squad box is gone from the website;

and at the moment the blood angels don't have any plastic troops box or fast attack infantry.

It is probably a combined box with death compnay, tactical squad and assault squad bits which will be sold as blood angels/death company.

Well slap me sideways and call me sally, I was adamant this would be an incorrect rumour, I've never been happier to be wrong.

So many awesome looking bits, can;t wait to see more pics and get a better look.

Box of 5 models £30 I imagine if they do include jump packs etc as if it is a 10 man box which also includes jump packs £40 for a tac/ DC/ assault squad?

WD cover...

Blood Angels tactical squad on big bases?

...feth it, I'm in

Well, I think marines do fit more neatly onto the 32mm bases, but my inner neat-freak does not like the thought of fielding two tactical squads with different sized bases alongside each other. Foamcore, as mentioned, might be a consideration.

BA tacticals are nice, but damn I REALLY want to see a new Assault squad kit. I like the idea of kitting the tacts out as DC.

I hate this drip-feed-last-minute nonsense, any other company would be building up weeks in advance with previews, especially with Christmas being a consideration.

As it is my seasonal gift/treating myself spending is done, anything they put out now I won't even consider buying until after the new year, if they'd put out a press release or something a month ago they might have snagged a lot more of my cash. Not that this practise of theirs has come as a surprise.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
so the death company squad box is gone from the website;

and at the moment the blood angels don't have any plastic troops box or fast attack infantry.

It is probably a combined box with death compnay, tactical squad and assault squad bits which will be sold as blood angels/death company.

It would be a little like the Space Wolves Wolf Pack box if that was the case. But it would need ten jump packs in order to even be useful.

 Bull0 wrote:
Blood Angels tactical squad on big bases?

...feth it, I'm in

those look like standard bases. I suspect it is just Death company getting the bigger bases as they seem to have been pulled form the GW website. Or possibly jump units getting the 32mm.

Those are deffo 32mm bases on the tac squad. If it was 25mm like usual their feet would be at the edge

Why tactical squad?

How could it be less BA?

Why not assault squad?

[/facepalm]

I think I understand the change to Space Marines to 32mm
It is the Genestealers [well the old metal ones] who needed to be on the 32mm Bases.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'd be happier if somebody from GW explained the thinking behind it, if we had an idea of the thinking behind it, it might be easier to make a call on whether it was good, bad or neutral.

Not that that's going to happen.

That's assuming there was thinking behind it.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'd be happier if somebody from GW explained the thinking behind it, if we had an idea of the thinking behind it, it might be easier to make a call on whether it was good, bad or neutral.

Not that that's going to happen.

Imagine the troubles GW might have navigated if they just gave people some idea of their goals with the game.

I'm guessing the word you were looking for was "mitigated".

I dunno, I like the mental picture "navigated" gives me. Like they're on a ship made of ivory sailing through a sea of negativity, with a red shirt in the crow's nest looking for the fabled Fanboy Island, a very small island populated by a handful of very rich people who just hoard models without realizing or caring that there even is a game to go with them.

 LutherMax wrote:
Why tactical squad?

How could it be less BA?

Why not assault squad?

[/facepalm]

I'm wondering all these same things, Hopefully this will make sense once we either 1.) know more about the Box itself or 2.) know more about the codex.

Otherwise It looks like I'll buy the tac box, grab some Assault boxes, make what I want and then sell off the rest of the standard stuff. which would be a pain but at least I have the option now.



......as for the 32mm base thing , well that full switch over rumor is starting to look true. ( they did nail everything else) , I'm probably like the rest of you and have mixed emotions on it considering it does make a lot of sense modeling wise for those units to be on 32mm bases.

However seeing the Carnifex have a new base ( which I really don't feel was needed, not to mention I HATE oval bases) and GW coming out with another totally new base size for the tyrannocyte ( which we naturally have to assume they will use elsewhere, to maximize investment on making it) makes me think this move is less motivated by making modeling sense ( feet standing over bases, I.E. Necrons and Marines) but more an attempt grab some cash from bases, from people who are not going to want to look at a mix of different base sizes among the same type of squad.

They get cash for cheap to make bases and some (not all of us) will buy bases for all their armies, old and new. So GW gets money off old models again and as a temporary side benefit , most outside companies will have to catch up to these new bases , leaving the market to mainly GW for a few months.

and yes I know 1 company was posted on here for 32mm wood bases but it will basically be a GW market for at least a few weeks or months.

Motograter wrote:
Those are deffo 32mm bases on the tac squad. If it was 25mm like usual their feet would be at the edge

Agreed. As for "Why tacticals", probably because something like 70% of the fighting forces of the Blood Angels are tactical marines. Read your codex

Who says blood angels will only be getting one kit release? For all we know the dex and tac squad is week one, Week two could be a updated assault squad. GW like to screw around releases, while the assault squad would be the obvious first thing to release in our eyes means nothing to how GW release their product

As someone who doesn't play Blood Angels, and as someone who would desperately like GW to release "generic" BP/CCW models, a redone Assault Marine box would be really nice. If they included both Jump Packs and normal backpacks it'd help Blood Angels out as well, what with all the discount vehicles and all, no?

One can hope at least.

Motograter wrote:
Who says blood angels will only be getting one kit release? For all we know the dex and tac squad is week one, Week two could be a updated assault squad. GW like to screw around releases, while the assault squad would be the obvious first thing to release in our eyes means nothing to how GW release their product

If you are right I will kiss you. If you are wrong I will kill you.

 Bull0 wrote:

Motograter wrote:
Those are deffo 32mm bases on the tac squad. If it was 25mm like usual their feet would be at the edge

Agreed. As for "Why tacticals", probably because something like 70% of the fighting forces of the Blood Angels are tactical marines. Read your codex

Exactly. Blood angels use a lot of assault marines because their assault squads and companies are always full. Any time they suffer losses, theres a flood of volunteers for jet packs because oftheir love of flight. BA remain a codex compliant chapter.