Eldenfirefly wrote:


BTW, can I check something here? Is it an issue if I want to equip a champion with powerfist and combi melta? But last time battle scribe seemed to treat it as not allowable. So, I am not sure.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Butcher cannon is -2
It's not clear if it stacks with other debuffs tho.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I'm liking the idea of dread claws for sniping the more I'm thinking about them. 1d6 auto hitting pistols all units within 6". Since most chars. Need to be within 6" of the unit they are providing LD buffs to, they will often be within range of that attack.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I'm liking the idea of dread claws for sniping the more I'm thinking about them. 1d6 auto hitting pistols all units within 6". Since most chars. Need to be within 6" of the unit they are providing LD buffs to, they will often be within range of that attack.

Demantiae wrote:
3x NL units for -3Ld. MoN on one of them for +1 to morale rolls (different from -1 Ld). -2Ld from Butcher Cannon. Creeping Terror R&H power (take a cheap Malefic Lord) -d3Ld. So shoot a unit with Butcher Cannon, have the ML cast Creeping Terror on it, charge it with the NL unit with MoN and have 2 other NL uinits nearby and the unit you charge will have -6 to -8 Ld, and you'd add 1 to the morale roll (2-7 roll range). Even with a re-roll you're gonna fail that moral check hard, forcing you to spend CP's or lose the unit. If you fit out a dread with double Butcher Cannon, and take more units with MoN then you can hit a second unit that turn with a -5Ld, which to be fair is pretty damned good by itself.

If you wanna get really nasty and are determined to punish Orks for the lulz you could throw in that DP that throws out -1Ld too. I think there's also something else in chaos that throws out a leadership malus. Can't remember what it is but I did try to look at chaos freakshow options when the R&H list dropped. So it might be possible to get up to -10Ld on a unit if you work it right. Assuming that's the case and you get that best scenario 7 roll on the morale check.then you *could* hurt those Ork boys long before anyone else can. Or you could just shoot them off the table!

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Any highlights?

 mrhappyface wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Any highlights?

So far? They quickly showed the Chaos Boon Strategem: 1CP and can only be activated after a character kills a character, monster or vehicle and they showed some traits: the one I could make out was wounds of a 6 cause a mortal wound on top of normal damage.

They're going to show more stuff later on, for now they're showing a joke match of Nid monsters VS SW characters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has there been any talk of a new Abaddon model? I never did get him originally cause Khorne but I'm wondering whether to pick him up or wait for a new model...

Hi [redacted],

Thanks for the email. Currently our rules team have requested we gather as many questions as we can related to the new index books and rules that may not be present, clear or need addressing in future FAQ's.
As such we are not able to answer individual questions as they come in but rather add them to our list to send over to the designers as requested to address at a later date.

Rest assured, we will tag and categorize your email and forward it on and soon we should see an FAQ for the new data sheets and units that we have had questions about.

Thanks again

 Rydria wrote:
Based on those leaks slaanesh seems to be now the go to shoting specialists considering they have exclusive access to the best shoting hellbrute varient, and they have the shot twice for infantry units. Also looks like marks may cost cp for every legion except emperor's children and world eaters.

 Rydria wrote:
Any other leaks i really want to know the emperor's children relic, warlord trait and strategem

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Looks like Warp Talons still only have 1 Attack base.

EDIT: Also it looks like Obliterator weapons are now Assault 4

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
My Word Bearers are sad... sure their rules a fitting and fluffy but man do they suck a bit compared to the others.

 Eldarain wrote:
Summoning is garbage. The fact you have to jump through all those hoops just to end up with a limited form of the deep strike everything else gets is ridiculous.

My one hope for Word Bearers was fixing that. Making it not hurt you doesnt alleviate the makor flaws in it.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
What is it suppose to be? Some sort of necklace or claws?

 Arkaine wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Summoning is garbage. The fact you have to jump through all those hoops just to end up with a limited form of the deep strike everything else gets is ridiculous.

My one hope for Word Bearers was fixing that. Making it not hurt you doesnt alleviate the makor flaws in it.

It's not a limited form of deep strike. It's a way to list tailor.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Also as expected no daemonic steeds are in the codex.

Bit sad for all the people who love using Juggerlords, as it means in a few years they won't be supported.

Crispy78 wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Also as expected no daemonic steeds are in the codex.

Bit sad for all the people who love using Juggerlords, as it means in a few years they won't be supported.

WHAT???

1) Exalted Champions are real
2) the base wargear list is the same - so no daemon weapons outside of artefacts, no master crafted weapons, the same awkward wording on champion gear that makes it sound like if you take a bolter/combi bolter then you can't take any other weapons (no combi bolter/power weapon, can't even take a bolter+bolt pistol like regular dudes)
- psychic powers -
3) nurgle power buffs a nurgle heretic astartes unit w/in 18" cast on a six, until your next psychic phase attacks against that unit suffer -1 to hit. very nice.
4) other psychic powers are as previously spoiled elsewhere
- unit profiles -
5) abby looks the same apart from the bonus command points
6) bile looks the same
7) doom sirens are assault d6 instead of d3 now
8) cypher and fallen look the same. the prohibition against fallen rhinos (or anything else apart from cypher and the special fallen unit) remains.
9) huron grants a single extra command point if he's your warlord, otherwise looks the same to me
10) daemon prince is power rating 8, or 9 with wings, otherwise looks the same as the current CSM version to me.
11) lord looks the same to me
12) termi lord is power 6 instead of 7
13) regular sorcerer is power 6 instead of 7
14) termi sorcerer looks the same
15) NO LORDS OR SORCERERS ON DAEMONIC STEEDS (though they should still be legal with current rules)
16) NO LORDS OR SORCERERS ON BIKES (again still playable out of the index)
17) exalted champion is there, power armor only, 4 wound hero, same power rating as a lord tho. gets to reroll failed hits against enemy characters. grants aura that lets friendly legion units w/in 6" reroll ALL failed wounds, not just ones, but ONLY in the fight phase
18) smiths are power 5 instead of 6
19) basic CSMs look the same
20) cultists look the same
21) rules are included for each of the four primary daemon types, for summoning I guess. They do not have the heretic astartes faction keyword.
22) I am not familiar enough with their rules to say if they look any different.
23) extra batches of berzerkers are +4 power rating instead of +5, otherwise they look the same to me.
24) rubric marines are 7 power rating instead of 8 for the first five, but +7 instead of +6 for extra batches. Look the same to me otherwise.
25) plague marines have a lot more equipment options in melee. They can trade their bolters for an axe (S+1 AP-2 D1; plague weapon; +1 attack for having the knife in the off hand), or a second plague knife (+1 attack with their other knife). Up to two can replace their bolters with maces (S+2 AP-1 D3 -1 to hit; plague weapon; +1 attack for having the knife in the off hand) AND the previously mentioned axe, and two more can replace their bolters with cleavers (Sx2 AP-3 Dd6; plague weapon) or flails (d3 attacks for every attack on the users profile; S+2 AP -2 D2; excess damage isn't lost, just roll it onto the next model in the unit; plague weapon). these melee upgrades are in addition to the prior special weapon options. the champion doesn't get any of these special melee upgrade options, but their power fist is in addition to all their other weapons, so they can have fist, plasmagun, and plague sword in case they don't want to take the penalty to hit from the fist. Power rating stays 7, I cannot make out the power cost for extra batches.
26) Noise marines are 6 power instead of 7, doom sirens d6 hits instead of d3, I can't make out any other changes or not
27) chosen are one power rating cheaper both at base cost and for batches, otherwise look the same to me
28) mutilators are power 7 instead of 10, looks like a hefty points drop will be coming their way. cannot see anything else.
29) terminators look the same
30) possessed are 2 wounds instead of 1, same power, can't really see whether anything else is changed
31) helbrute is power 7 instead of 8, otherwise looks the same
32) bikers are power 5 instead of 7, otherwise look the same
33) spawn look the same
34) raptors are power 6 instead of 7, can't see any other changes
35) warp talons are power 7 instead of 9, look the same otherwise
36) havocs look the same
37) oblits have twice as many shots, otherwise look the same as before. That means that, at worst, they're armed with reaper autocannons, with the potential for up to 4 shots each at S9, AP-3, D3. still unreliable, but double the output from before at the same cost may move them up to usable. We'll see.
38) land raider looks the same.
39) Defiler is power 11 instead of 16, a whopping 5 power less, discount of almost a third if points follow suit. Otherwise looks the same.
40) Forgefiend is power 9 instead of 10, otherwise looks the same.
41) Maulerfiend looks the same.
42) Vindicator is power 8 instead of 11, cannot make out if there are any other changes.
43) Predator is power 9 instead of 10, otherwise look the same.
44) can't make out rhino at all. Power rating stays the same at least.
45) heldrake looks the same.
46) LORD OF SKULLS IS POWER RATING 29 INSTEAD OF 39. If the points follow suite, it will be fully 25% cheaper. I don't see any other changes, but cannot make it all out.
- faction/subfaction rules -
47) As previously spoiled, Pure-CSM detachments (not the regular daemon units do not count even though they appear in the book as they don't have the legion keyword) gain the same objective secured style rule as vanilla space marines
48) Legion traits look to be as spoiled previously. Of the ones not already previewed, that's ATSKNF for Word Bearers, -1 to hit Alpha Legion units more than 12" from the shooter, and Renegade Chapters can advance and Charge.
49) Fallen units and Bile, as spoiled previously, can be ignored when determining if your detachment qualifies for legion goodies, but cannot benefit from those goodies themselves.
- stratagems
50), gods, there are so many stratagems....
51) EDIT - never mind, I was able to read this below
52) Flakk Missile - 1CP - use on a single Heretic Astartes model with a missile launcher targeting a flyer in the shooting phase. Instead of firing normally, the user makes one attack at +1 to hit that causes D3 mortal wounds if it hits.
53) Fire Frenzy - 1 CP - use on a helbrute in the shooting phase and only if it stood still in the movement phase. It shoots all its weapons twice, but can only target the closest visible enemy unit. Remember, Leviathans are helbrutes, now.
54) Forward Operatives - 1 CP - Alpha Legion only, use during deployment on an Alpha Legion infantry unit. Don't set them up normally. Instead, after deployment but before the first turn, set them up anywhere on the table more than 9" from any enemy models.
55) Dark Pact - 1 CP - Word Bearers only, use when one of their characters attempts to summon daemons, may re-roll the dice, and does not suffer wounds on doubles or triples
56) Excess of Violence - 1 CP - Emperor's Children only, use on an Emperor's Children unit in the fight phase, each time the model slays an enemy model, it can make another hit roll with the same weapon against the same target. This hit rolls can't generate more hits. Note that hit rolls from DttFE cannot trigger extra attacks from EoV or vice versa. However, attacks from Music of the Apocalypse can, so long as the Noise Marine was slain and is making those attacks in the fight phase. If a Noise Marine is slain by conscripts in the fight phase while under the effect of EoV, throws a Frag Grenade with Music of the Apocalypse, and kills 4 conscripts, then he will throw four more frag grenades before being removed as a casualty. An unlikely circumstance, but cool if it happens
57) Demon Shell - 1 CP - use on a CSM character before firing a bolt pistol, bold gun, combi bolter, or the bolter part of a combi weapon. Make a single hit roll with no rerolls allowed, if you hit deal D3 mortal wounds to the target, if you miss the character suffers D3 mortal wounds instead.
58) Gifts of Chaos - 1 or 3 CP - use before battle for 1 or 2 extra artifacts respectively. Still only one of any given artifact, and only one on any given character.
59) Beseech the Dark Gods - 1 CP - use at the start of any of your turns on an unmarked CSM unit with the <mark of chaos> keyword. Pick a mark, they have it now. No word on what happens to non-mark only gear like the icon of vengeance.
60) Chaos Boon - 1 CP - ok I can read it now. Use at the end of a fight phase on a CSM character that isn't a daemon prince and that killed an enemy character, monster, or vehicle in that phase. roll 2d6 and consult the chart: 2 - the character dies, but you get a consolation spawn; 3 - add 6" to their ranged weapon ranges; 4 - add 3" to their move stat; 5 - +1 strength; 6 - +1 attacks; 7 - choose any result you want other than 2 or 12; 8 - enemies suffer -1 to hit rolls against the character in melee; 9 - +1 to saving throws; 10 - +1 toughness; 11 - +1 wounds; 12 - the character dies, but you get a consolation Daemon Prince. Spawn and princes created by this stratagem don't cost reserve points.
61) Blasphemous Machines - 1 CP - use on a CSM vehicle in the shooting phase, it ignores the hit penalties associated with heavy and assault weapons
62) Veterans of the Long War - 1 CP - use on a CSM infantry or bike unit in the shooting or fight phase; the unit gains +1 to wound rolls that turn.
63) Grandfather's Blessing - 2 CP - use on a CSM Nurgle Infantry or Biker unit at the end of your move phase. An injured model in the unit regains d3 wounds. If there are no injured models in the unit, restore one slain model to the unit with one wound remaining
64) The Great Sorcerer - 1 CP - use on a CSM Tzeentch Psyker at the end of your psychic phase to immediately attempt one additional psychic power
65) Tide of Traitors - 2 CP - use at the end of your movement phase on a cultist unit. Remove the cultist unit from the table, redeploy it at its original starting strength within 6" of your board edge and more than 9" from any enemy.
66) Linebreaker Bombardment - 1 CP, use on a trio of chaos vindicators during the shooting phase. None of them shoot normally this turn. Instead pick a point within 24" of all of them and roll a die for each enemy unit within 3" of the point (-1 for characters, +1 for units of 10+). On a 4+, the unit suffers 3d3 mortal wounds.
67) Killshot - 1 CP - use on a trio of chaos predators during the shooting phase. They all gain +1 to wound monsters and vehicles that phase.
68) Daemonforge - 1 CP - use on a chaos daemon vehicle in the shoot or fight phase to re-roll all failed hit and wound rolls that phase. I'm imagining this on a Lord of Skulls and laughing.
69) Chaos Familiar - 1 CP - use on a chaos marine psyker at the start of the psychic phase to swap out one of their powers for another form the CSM psychic powers list
- artefacts -
70) Murder Sword - replaces a power sword, S+1 AP-4 D1. Pick an enemy character at the start of the game and tell your opponent. Against that character the sword inflicts a mortal wound on every hit instead of normal damage.
71) Puscleaver - nurgle only - replaces a power sword, S user AP-2 Dd3, wounds non-vehicle models on a 2+ regardless of toughness.
72) Intoxicating Elixer - slaanesh only - +1 Srength and attacks
73) Eye of Tzeentch - tzeentch psyker only - +1 to cast smite
74) Talisman of Burning Blood - khorne only - can advance and charge, can re-roll failed charges
75) Axe of Blind Fury - khorne only - replaces a power axe, S+3 AP-3 Dd3, hit rolls of 1 cannot be re-rolled or modified and will hit friendly units within 1" of the character if there are any (otherwise will miss normally - you won't hit yourself)
76) Black Mace - replaces a power maul, S+3 AP-2 D2, for every model slain roll a die, on a 6 that models unit suffers an extra mortal wound at the end of the phase
77) Eye of Night - black legion only - 1/game instead of shooting other weapons in the shooting phase make a single attack against an enemy vehicle within line of sight, on a 2+ it suffers d3 mortal wounds. Frankly, I find this extremely disappointing.
78) Cursed Crozius - word bearers only - replaces a power mace, S+2 AP-2 D3, re-roll failed wound rolls against Imperials
79) Blade of the Hydra - alpha legion only - replaces a chainsword, S+1 AP? D?, +d3 attacks with this weapon in melee
80) Blissgiver - emperor's children only - replaces a bolt pistol, 6" range, assault d6, S user, AP-1 D1, can be fired in melee, if it woulds a character without killing them roll a d6 at the end of the phase and on a 6 they suffer d3 mortal wounds
- warlord traits -
81) Eternal Vendetta - Huron always takes this - re-roll failed wound rolls for your warlord in the fight phase against Adeptus Astartes units
82) Flames of Spite - If your warlord rolls a 6+ to wound in the fight phase, the target suffers a mortal wound in addition to other damage.
83) Lord of Terror - Bile always picks this - enemy units that test morale within 6" of your warlord roll two dice and take the highest
84) Exalted Champion - your warlord gains +1 attack
85) Unholy Fortitude - your warlord gains +1 wound and ignores wounds suffered on a 6+
86) Hatred Incarnate - you can re-roll wound rolls of 1 made by your warlord
87) Stimulated by Pain - emperor's children only, lucious always takes this - your warlord gains +1 attack for every wound suffered, up to +3 max. Healed wounds remove the bonus attacks as well.
88) Abaddon always takes the black legion trait if he's your warlord
89) Khârn always takes the World Eaters trait if he's your warlord
89) Voice of Lorgar - word bearers only - +3" aura range
90) I Am Alpharius - Alpha Legion only - pick a chaos marine warlord trait in addition to this one. If your warlord dies, pick a new Alpha Legion character to be your warlord, and give them this warlord trait (including choosing an additional CSM warlord trait for them). Your opponent only counts as slaying your warlord if you run out of Alpha Legion characters to pass this trait to. I love it.
91) Cypher can be your warlord, but doesn't get to have a warlord trait at all
- points -
92) I'm too tired to try to make out any points costs, but the lord of skulls at least is fully 100 points cheaper before considering weapons

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Why is it basically impossible for Defilers to be balanced? What is the hidden factor that makes them junk no matter what changes are made to them?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Daemon troops don't get ObSec, & mean you can't use Legion Traits (they lack the <Legion> & Heretic Astartes Keyword). In fact taking the Daemon Troops means any other Heretic Astartes troops in the detachment don't get ObSec

 mrhappyface wrote:
Thanks.

So no Daemon Weapons (d6 extra attacks) anymore, not sure how I feel about that since, on the flip side, artifacts are almost free now...

Ghorgul wrote:
That is brutal! Then same thing again next turn if enemy decides to ignore the squad. Also with prescience you might not even need to overcharge your plasma guns. One could instead rapid fire both bolter and plasmagun if the target is some low T low save unit. The amount of death is just overwhelming.

Agusto wrote:
I have made an army of fallen Dark Angels and have been wanting to add Cypher to that list, but I can't think of any reasons (besides fluff) to include him. What does he bring to a list? Yes, he doesn't give up StW on a 2+ but apart from that? It doesn't matter if I play my army as DA or CSM, Cypher doesn't buff it in any way, unless I bring Fallen, and then I have Rhinos and Droppods that can't be used. Help please... What does Cypher actually do?

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Daemon troops don't get ObSec, & mean you can't use Legion Traits (they lack the <Legion> & Heretic Astartes Keyword). In fact taking the Daemon Troops means any other Heretic Astartes troops in the detachment don't get ObSec

This is incorrect.
"If your army is Battle-forged, all Troops units in Chaos Space Marine Detachments gain this ability...."

Chaos Space Marine Detachments can take Plaguebearers, Daemonettes, 'Letters, and Horrors as troops. It does not say anything about Heretic Astartes. Heretic Astartes =! Chaos Space Marine Detachment.

The way I read this is that if you take daemonettes as troops with a daemon prince from the CSM codex, you get Obsec.

 Rydria wrote:
Now that the daemonic sword and axe are same pts cost as the pair of malefic talons how do the three daemon prince loadouts compare ?

 Rydria wrote:
Sure the axe is aweful i mean you can opt to attack with talon vs chumps while you use the str 9 axe to crack open things like land raiders ? (Isn't the sword ap-3? Not at home to check )

Mazzyx wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Sure the axe is aweful i mean you can opt to attack with talon vs chumps while you use the str 9 axe to crack open things like land raiders ? (Isn't the sword ap-3? Not at home to check )

-2 AP but is 3 damage instead of 2. You always get at least 1 attack from the talon you get.

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Ghorgul wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Well for high wound model like Fire Raptor the 5+++ is probably the best as it triggers from every single damage? Or have I misunderstood the the rule works?

If I am correct, 5+++ is best by far if you are being shot with lascannons and weapons like that. 5++ is not very good as after failure you lose D6 wounds. 5+++ is extremely efficient though as if lascannon wounds you and you fail your 6+ save (Fire Raptor does get 6+ save against Lascannons), you get the 5+++ on every single Damage instance coming from every 1D6 damage roll.

 mrhappyface wrote:

But, -1 to hit and 5+++ save both have the same mathmatical outcome when being hit by a lascannon.

Ghorgul wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

But, -1 to hit and 5+++ save both have the same mathmatical outcome when being hit by a lascannon.

Haha yeah, they are exactly the same I'm surprised. Well I guess -2 is then better as if enemy ends up using his re-rolls on the hit step it is better than later in the damage step.

And I guarantee that -2 is better if enemy has any auras available that allow re-rolling of failed to-hit rolls.

Gibs55 wrote:
What's the murder sword do?

lbennett1991 wrote:
Alpha legion obliterators with mark of tzeench and changeling

lbennett1991 wrote:
Alpha legion obliterators with mark of tzeench and changeling

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Daemon troops don't get ObSec, & mean you can't use Legion Traits (they lack the <Legion> & Heretic Astartes Keyword). In fact taking the Daemon Troops means any other Heretic Astartes troops in the detachment don't get ObSec

This is incorrect.
"If your army is Battle-forged, all Troops units in Chaos Space Marine Detachments gain this ability...."

Chaos Space Marine Detachments can take Plaguebearers, Daemonettes, 'Letters, and Horrors as troops. It does not say anything about Heretic Astartes. Heretic Astartes =! Chaos Space Marine Detachment.

The way I read this is that if you take daemonettes as troops with a daemon prince from the CSM codex, you get Obsec.

 Sersi wrote:
I will never again say GW doesn't love Slaanesh.


Noise Marines:

- Noise Marines are 15 pts.
- Sonic Blaster stayed at 4 pts.
- Blastmasters are 20 pts, its now just better than a missile launcher in every way, you can now get a 5X MSU squad with a Blastmaster for 95 pts!
- Doom Sirens are now: Assault D6 instead of D3.

Sonic Dreadnought:

- Due to Blastmaster dropping 8 pts each, it's cost went down 16 pts, getting you most of the cost back to take an improved Doom Siren.
- Fire Frenzy: for 1 CP its can fire twice if it doesn't move for 4D3 shot at S8/AP-2/DMG D3, for potentially 36 damage in a single shooting phase.

Daemonettes:

- Daemonettes are 7 pts a 22% point drop; saving 20-60 pts depending on the units size.


Emperor's Children Legion Trait - Flawless Perfection:

- Legion Traits are abilities available Chaos to Infantry, Bikers and Helbrutes of the same Legion.
- Units with this trait always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge.
- If the enemy charge or has a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with.
- Starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

Emperor's Children Warlord Trait - Stimulated By Pain:

- Add +1 to your Warlords attacks characteristic for each wound he has suffered.
- To a maximum of +3 attacks.
- If the Warlord heals any wounds, he loses the associated bonus attacks.

Slaanesh Stratagem - Endless Cacophony:

- For 2 CP a marked Infantry or Biker units can fire twice.
- Effects: Havocs, Obliterators, Chosen, Terminators, Raptors and Bikes.
- Obliterators are Assault 4, minimum unit size of 3, firing twice for 24 shots!
- Bike are now only 25 pts!

Emperor's Children Stratagem - Excess of Violence:

- For 1 CP a marked Infantry units gains +1 attack for each model slain in the fight phase.

Slaanesh Psychic Power - Delightful Agonies:

- : for a 5+ FNP.

Emperor'd Children Artifact - Intoxicating Elixir:

- SLAANESH model only.
- Add +1 to the bearer’s Strength and Attack characteristics.

Emperor'd Children Artifact - Blissgiver:

- EMPEROR’S CHILDREN model only.
- Blissgiver: 6”/Assault D6/S: User/AP-1/Dam 1; replaces the models bolt pistol.
- If an enemy Character model is wounded by Blissgiver but not slain.
- Roll D6 at the end of the phase, on a 6 they suffer D3 mortal wounds.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Emperor's children are shaping up to be THE anti-cc army, seriously whatever doesn't die to shooting/overwatch will get murdered in cc!

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Wouldn't Nurgle combine with the -1 for Hard to Hit so it's a -2, or am I being dumb for not reading the rules?

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Wouldn't Nurgle combine with the -1 for Hard to Hit so it's a -2, or am I being dumb for not reading the rules?

That's what I said, I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What mark of Chaos do you think is best for the Fire Raptor if you want to give it buffs?
Tzeentch means you can give it a 5++,
Nurgle is -1 to hit,
Slaanesh is a 5+++.

Now obviously the Nurgle and Slaanesh powers are better but which one of these two to go for? Personally, I'm thinking go for the Nurgle Power because I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me. What do you guys think?

Wouldn't Nurgle combine with the -1 for Hard to Hit so it's a -2, or am I being dumb for not reading the rules?

That's what I said, I already have a -1 to hit so BS5+ won't actually be able to hit me.

Yeah, I stopped reading after the Slaanesh 5+++ Good ol' Orks getting some love.

Out of curiousity, what would the Khorne benefit (if any) be?

 mrhappyface wrote:
What Khorne benefit?

 Frozocrone wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
What Khorne benefit?

Oh, I've not followed the Chaos rumours aside the ones posted on Warhammer community so thought you knew what the Mark of Khorne does.

Gibs55 wrote:
Thoughts on converting Primaris Hellblasters into Noise marines with sonic blasters?

Gibs55 wrote:
Thoughts on converting Primaris Hellblasters into Noise marines with sonic blasters?

 Sersi wrote:
No its still fight phase only.

 Sersi wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
Thoughts on converting Primaris Hellblasters into Noise marines with sonic blasters?

You are a genius! I have Dark Victory boxes I was going to convert into "True-scale" Emperor's Children anyway. But that new Hellblaster box the plasma guns with the cables are perfect. I think as good alternate paint job could sell them. Maybe gold with red OSL. Let me sketch out some ideas.

Fanners wrote:
On the topic of Primaris proxies, what are everyone's opinion on using Pramaris marines as regular CSM for Alpha Legion?

 Arkaine wrote:

Fanners wrote:
On the topic of Primaris proxies, what are everyone's opinion on using Pramaris marines as regular CSM for Alpha Legion?

That the Codex page for Fabius Bile makes it almost blatantly clear we're getting our own Primaris Marines.

 Arkaine wrote:

Fanners wrote:
On the topic of Primaris proxies, what are everyone's opinion on using Pramaris marines as regular CSM for Alpha Legion?

That the Codex page for Fabius Bile makes it almost blatantly clear we're getting our own Primaris Marines.

Gibs55 wrote:
Forge World

Hellforged Contemptor
Dreadnought, Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought and
Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought
Add ‘
Helbrute
’ to the Keywords line of all
these datasheets.

That means they get the benefit of their faction tactics which is very cool.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Re-reading it, you seem to be right. I don't why I read it as increasing your BS by one.

Bluthusten wrote:
But why Slaanesh? Every Terminator can take Plasma and shot in after the drop ?

Arachnofiend wrote:
I was at a 1500 pt tournament today and let me tell you, kharybdis dreadclaws do fething work. I thought I had a pretty unfavorable matchup against brimstone spam but the ability to hit multiple squads at once with the flamer is exceptional. I almost feel like it's worth it's points without putting anything inside of it; to be sure, the dreadclaw did much more killing than the contemptor tucked inside of it.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Bluthusten wrote:
But why Slaanesh? Every Terminator can take Plasma and shot in after the drop ?

There's a Slaanesh only Stratagem that will allows them to shoot a second time at the end of the shooting phase.

Bluthusten wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Bluthusten wrote:
But why Slaanesh? Every Terminator can take Plasma and shot in after the drop ?

There's a Slaanesh only Stratagem that will allows them to shoot a second time at the end of the shooting phase.

:O :O :O :O :O :O

That is amazing!

So we need:

Black Legion

-Abbadon
-5 Chaosterminators of Slaanesh with billions of Plasma
-1 Sorcerer with Jumppack

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Nope. The double blastmaster hellbrute should count

 McGibs wrote:
Someone pointed out that the "helbrute" on the fire frenzy stratagem card isnt in the same font treatment as other keywords, suggesting that it's likely intended to be the helbrute unit specifically, not the helbrute keyword.
Now, arguing RAW vs RAI on a goddamn FONT TYPE is a new low for GW, but I wouldn't expect the doublefiring doritos and leviathans to make it through a FAQ round.

GAdvance wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
Someone pointed out that the "helbrute" on the fire frenzy stratagem card isnt in the same font treatment as other keywords, suggesting that it's likely intended to be the helbrute unit specifically, not the helbrute keyword.
Now, arguing RAW vs RAI on a goddamn FONT TYPE is a new low for GW, but I wouldn't expect the doublefiring doritos and leviathans to make it through a FAQ round.

It's actually completely legal to murder anyone who says that

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Nope. The double blastmaster hellbrute should count

Ghorgul wrote:
To really maximize effect with Slaanesh Terminators you have to remember that Prescience works also in melee, so to really maximize its effect one should:
1: Prescience.
2: Warptime.
3: Shoot with Endless Cacophony.
4: Charge, preferably multiple units.

At hard targets supercharged plasma is the best, but against lighter hordes shooting both bolter and plasma normally is preferable.

Charging then again is weird choice, you either charge to maximize the prescience and casualties to enemy, but at the same time this will expose your Sorcerer and possible Lord to enemy shooting, unless you bring second unit next to it. But bringing second unit would have you making 4 unit deep strike with bare minimum total cost of 550 pts, easily going above 600 pts when units are kitted.
I don't know, this feels excessive.

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
Not sure the Blissgiver is actually worth the Stratagem point to take..
Yea i said stratagem point coz every Emperor Children player want to jump on that Intoxicating Elixir to give a Lord S5 A5 (to wound MEQ on 3+)

.. or a Daemon Prince to get S8 A5.
You could even give him Herald for Hysterical Frenzy and go S9
And Diabolical Strenght to go S10, 6 Attack.

But that's just overkill, you should be better with cancelling Invulnerable save spell.

An E.C. Daemon prince warlord can get S8 A9 when mid life. Slaanesh save the fool who can't terminate him, the counter attack will be S8... 12 attacks (24 with Hysterical Frenzy). Suck it Khorn :p

 Khornate25 wrote:
Hi people. I am playing at my local store and I did poorly lastly at my first 8th edition game. I was wondering what I could do with my following collection :

+HQ.++

-Chaos lord in terminator armor with chainfist.
-Chaos Lord on Juggernaut of Khorne.
-Lord of Contagion / Chaos Lord of Nurgle in terminator armour.
-Daemon Prince with wings and Hellforged sword x2
-Dark Apostle x2
-Great Unclean One.
-Herald of Nurgle x2.
-Sorcerer in Terminator armour.
-Sorcerer on bike x3.
-Malignant Plaguecaster / Sorcer of Nurgle.

+Troops.++
-Chaos Space Marines x70 (10 with CCW, 14 with plasma/melta, rest with bolters).
-Nurglings x3.
-Plaguebearers x40 (2 Icons, 2 instruments, 2 champ).


Elite.
-Chaos Terminators x15.
-Plague Marines x14 (2x Dark Imperium set).
-Noxious Blightbringer.


Fast Attack.
-Chaos Bikers x6
-Plague Drones x3


Heavy support.
-Land Raider x3
-Predator.
-Vindicator x2.
-Havocs x10 (4 ML, 4 Heavy Bolters).
-Soul Grinder.

Dedicated transports.
-Chaos Rhino x4.

So, what do you think are the main element in my collection that would synergize well with each other ?

Gibs55 wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:
Hi people. I am playing at my local store and I did poorly lastly at my first 8th edition game. I was wondering what I could do with my following collection :

+HQ.++

-Chaos lord in terminator armor with chainfist.
-Chaos Lord on Juggernaut of Khorne.
-Lord of Contagion / Chaos Lord of Nurgle in terminator armour.
-Daemon Prince with wings and Hellforged sword x2
-Dark Apostle x2
-Great Unclean One.
-Herald of Nurgle x2.
-Sorcerer in Terminator armour.
-Sorcerer on bike x3.
-Malignant Plaguecaster / Sorcer of Nurgle.

+Troops.++
-Chaos Space Marines x70 (10 with CCW, 14 with plasma/melta, rest with bolters).
-Nurglings x3.
-Plaguebearers x40 (2 Icons, 2 instruments, 2 champ).


Elite.
-Chaos Terminators x15.
-Plague Marines x14 (2x Dark Imperium set).
-Noxious Blightbringer.


Fast Attack.
-Chaos Bikers x6
-Plague Drones x3


Heavy support.
-Land Raider x3
-Predator.
-Vindicator x2.
-Havocs x10 (4 ML, 4 Heavy Bolters).
-Soul Grinder.

Dedicated transports.
-Chaos Rhino x4.

So, what do you think are the main element in my collection that would synergize well with each other ?

Buy the new CSM Codex

One thing that immediately jumps out is the DP are cheaper if you take an axe or sword and have some great new options. Also the Slannesh ability to attack again seems really good.

 Khornate25 wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:
Hi people. I am playing at my local store and I did poorly lastly at my first 8th edition game. I was wondering what I could do with my following collection :

+HQ.++

-Chaos lord in terminator armor with chainfist.
-Chaos Lord on Juggernaut of Khorne.
-Lord of Contagion / Chaos Lord of Nurgle in terminator armour.
-Daemon Prince with wings and Hellforged sword x2
-Dark Apostle x2
-Great Unclean One.
-Herald of Nurgle x2.
-Sorcerer in Terminator armour.
-Sorcerer on bike x3.
-Malignant Plaguecaster / Sorcer of Nurgle.

+Troops.++
-Chaos Space Marines x70 (10 with CCW, 14 with plasma/melta, rest with bolters).
-Nurglings x3.
-Plaguebearers x40 (2 Icons, 2 instruments, 2 champ).


Elite.
-Chaos Terminators x15.
-Plague Marines x14 (2x Dark Imperium set).
-Noxious Blightbringer.


Fast Attack.
-Chaos Bikers x6
-Plague Drones x3


Heavy support.
-Land Raider x3
-Predator.
-Vindicator x2.
-Havocs x10 (4 ML, 4 Heavy Bolters).
-Soul Grinder.

Dedicated transports.
-Chaos Rhino x4.

So, what do you think are the main element in my collection that would synergize well with each other ?

Buy the new CSM Codex

One thing that immediately jumps out is the DP are cheaper if you take an axe or sword and have some great new options. Also the Slannesh ability to attack again seems really good.

Yeah, I was planning to buy it. However, concerning your suggestion, I don't really have the units to get the most out of the EC trait.

 Khornate25 wrote:
So, what do you think are the main element in my collection that would synergize well with each other ?

 luke1705 wrote:
Those alpha legion tactics have me wondering if berzerkers wouldn't be very strong in that army list. Amazing if you get first turn; otherwise eh.

Gibs55 wrote:
As the poster above said grab a unit of 10 Termies MoS with Combi-plasma cast the spell that gives +1 to hit and proceed to unleash two very devastating shooting rounds without the fear of exploding. If you can weave something else in that gives re-roll to hits/wounds it will be insane.

As the poster above said grab a unit of 10 Termies MoS with Combi-plasma cast the spell that gives +1 to hit and proceed to unleash two very devastating shooting rounds without the fear of exploding

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:

As the poster above said grab a unit of 10 Termies MoS with Combi-plasma cast the spell that gives +1 to hit and proceed to unleash two very devastating shooting rounds without the fear of exploding

A one is always a failure. It can be reroll, but not modify.
So a 1 to hit with Prescience is still a 1.

 luke1705 wrote:
Those alpha legion tactics have me wondering if berzerkers wouldn't be very strong in that army list. Amazing if you get first turn; otherwise eh.

I think I'm still going to grab a storm eagle and zip it over into enemy lines with 18 zerkers + dark apostle + exalted champion. Will probably do a World Eaters Detachment but make the storm eagle nurgle from a different detachment to give it another -1 to

Double butcher cannon leviathans is obviously amazing for firing twice even with the restrictions, but I'm wondering what the best usage of infantry firing twice would be. Does seem to be combi plas termies

Eldenfirefly wrote:
If you are going to use 2 cp, I wouldn't waste it on just a group of havocs. But the maxed 20 noise marines, 10 termis and the dreadnaught is definitely a consideration. Although I think there is a separate strategem that allows a dreadnaught to fire twice anyway and its just 1 cp.

Would be interesting if you have mutiple such threats on the board. Like if you had that Dreadnaught, and a max 20 noise marine squad and the termis. No matter which threat opponent focused on, you would still have the chance to use the strategem for big shooty damage. We needed the help in shoooting, because personally, I feel that CSM will never be as shooty as other armies that focus on shooting. But the strategems do help. Just bear in mind we can only use 1 strategem per phase. So, its not like we can spam such strategems all in one shooting phase.

GrafWattenburg wrote:
I think I'll be running my guys as Alpha Legion for the sweet WL traits and -1 to hit is just great. Do Decimators have the Helbrute keyword? I forgot my FW book somewhere so I can't check, but getting -2 to hit (AL trait + Changeling, because they have both the Legion and Mark of Chaos + Daemon) would be very nice.

str00dles1 wrote:
Any way to get Zhufor the Impaler and Kahrn working together?

He has the World Eaters, Skulltakers keywords. Would like to use him cause of the larger Aura. Plus he can stop a spell possibly where Kharn cant. I'm guessing though the best way is to use him with squad of termies and deepstrike down. and youd need to make the termies skulltakers and not world eaters?

Sorix wrote:
How are World Eaters in the new Codex? Thinking about starting a army.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Psychic buffed world eaters are looking to be a top tier army.

 Arkaine wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Psychic buffed world eaters are looking to be a top tier army.

But don't forget about their Legion Weakness trait.

"When a World Eater is buffed by a friendly psyker, roll a d6. On a 2+, your opponent becomes enraged, shouts "HERETIC!", and declares Exterminatus, flipping the game table with all your models on it."

Arachnofiend wrote:
I think Forgefiends are worth another look with the new daemon engine stratagem. You'd only want to use one, but with reroll everything it should pack a pretty serious punch even with BS4+.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Now that Blood letters have been reduced from 9 points to 7. Summoning a whole horde of them in for a devastating charge might be a thing. 10 blood letters aren't so scary. But 20 or 30 charging in is definitely scary. What do you guys think? Is there a way to make this work? Maybe turn one, charge a sorceror on bike upfield with a bike escort. Turn two, summon in a big group of blood letters for a devastating charge.

They may a way to exploit weaknesses in the opponents line. Like maybe the opponent sees you only have a bike unit with sorceror on bike on the left flank and so, he doesn't put much there. Then, turn two, he gets hit on the left flank with 20 to 30 blood letters, with the bikes providing support fire.

Black legion bikes can shoot even rapid fire in assault. So, you can turbo boost a group of bikes and said bike sorceror 20 inches upfield turn one. The potential reach of a summoned in blood letter group turn two is potentially really really big.


Also, now that warp smiths are much reduced in points. Might be worthwhile considering how to make them work. The biggest baddest thing Chaos has (which is not a titan) is the Lord of skulls, which has incidentally also gotten 100 points cheaper. The thing has 28 wounds with auto regen 1 wound. But if we also have 2 warpsmiths behind it. Then that's 1 + 2d3 hp regen every turn! If you don't do enough damage to kill off the said Lord of skulls, its going to keep on going, and going and going! lol And of course, the huge demon engine will provide support to the two warp smiths near it. Charge up the board while shooting for all you are worth with 1 cp demonforge strategems. Once you get within range, even the warpsmiths can get into the action with their flamers and melta guns. With warp smiths being so cheap now, you can even go 3 or 4 smiths. The LOS can be the lynchpin behind the whole army and focal point. Very awesome narrative wise, since this huge demon engine will be charging up the field, laying down devastating firepower everywhere, and despite taking horrendous damage, the smiths behind it and its own infernal regeneration keeps it going (plus it gets more and more attacks as it gets wounded.) lol.

While the Lord of skulls is a Khorne Daemon Engine, it is a massive Daemon Engine, and Iron Warriors worship all titans. Since cult troops can appear in other legions now, having a Lord of skulls which is the lynchpin of an Iron Warriors Army with warpsmiths supporting it sounds pretty fluffy to me?

 Sersi wrote:
I got confirmation from the guy who did the first video review. Cults are now Elites only. Their Legion does not change their unit type. Which makes sense I guess GW wants to make all units viable. So CSM will be getting used now?

 Sersi wrote:
Oh I agree with you, even with the legion traits they aren't worth taking over cultists. It really screws over the battalion detachment. I can't see needing 3 units of CSM or Cultists for that matter.

Arachnofiend wrote:
I think Forgefiends are worth another look with the new daemon engine stratagem. You'd only want to use one, but with reroll everything it should pack a pretty serious punch even with BS4+.

 GreaterGood? wrote:

 Sersi wrote:
I got confirmation from the guy who did the first video review. Cults are now Elites only. Their Legion does not change their unit type. Which makes sense I guess GW wants to make all units viable. So CSM will be getting used now?

I'm not sure I see a use for CSM's. Even if they were the only troops in the codex. They are generalists in a specialists game.

Mazzyx wrote:
Thing to remember is we can use the Daemons for those troop slots as well. Horrors, daemonettes, bloodletters, and plaguebearers are not terrible troops and are pretty cheap.

My CSM so far this edition have performed well if I build them for specific rolls. Be it back line guards or upfront cheap assaults with flamers.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
Thing to remember is we can use the Daemons for those troop slots as well. Horrors, daemonettes, bloodletters, and plaguebearers are not terrible troops and are pretty cheap.

My CSM so far this edition have performed well if I build them for specific rolls. Be it back line guards or upfront cheap assaults with flamers.

We always could include Daemons in a list, they all share a faction keyword - Chaos. It's just that everything in a faction must share the LEGION keyword to get legion traits.

That said, I see more value in summoning them to the battlefield instead of walking them up the board. Any CSM character can do it.

 Arkaine wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
Thing to remember is we can use the Daemons for those troop slots as well. Horrors, daemonettes, bloodletters, and plaguebearers are not terrible troops and are pretty cheap.

My CSM so far this edition have performed well if I build them for specific rolls. Be it back line guards or upfront cheap assaults with flamers.

We always could include Daemons in a list, they all share a faction keyword - Chaos. It's just that everything in a faction must share the LEGION keyword to get legion traits.

That said, I see more value in summoning them to the battlefield instead of walking them up the board. Any CSM character can do it.

Everything in a DETACHMENT must share the legion keyword, not faction. This is an important distinction since tournament lists are generally permitted 3 detachments. You can get 3 completely different legion traits active at the same time in your list just by splitting them up.

Mazzyx wrote:
Thing to remember is we can use the Daemons for those troop slots as well. Horrors, daemonettes, bloodletters, and plaguebearers are not terrible troops and are pretty cheap.

My CSM so far this edition have performed well if I build them for specific rolls. Be it back line guards or upfront cheap assaults with flamers.

 Rydria wrote:
Pretty sure you can use the index entries for troop zerkers and troop noise marines still.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Pretty sure you can use the index entries for troop zerkers and troop noise marines still.

Why do you think that? You can't pick and choose the rules you use, always the updated rules.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
Thing to remember is we can use the Daemons for those troop slots as well. Horrors, daemonettes, bloodletters, and plaguebearers are not terrible troops and are pretty cheap.

My CSM so far this edition have performed well if I build them for specific rolls. Be it back line guards or upfront cheap assaults with flamers.

We always could include Daemons in a list, they all share a faction keyword - Chaos. It's just that everything in a faction must share the LEGION keyword to get legion traits.

That said, I see more value in summoning them to the battlefield instead of walking them up the board. Any CSM character can do it.

Everything in a DETACHMENT must share the legion keyword, not faction. This is an important distinction since tournament lists are generally permitted 3 detachments. You can get 3 completely different legion traits active at the same time in your list just by splitting them up.

Hmmm.

I know the units in a detachment can't get legion traits unless they all share the same legion keyword. But are you saying the rules prohibit having a detachment with units that don't share a legion keyword?

Arachnofiend wrote:
You could argue that the data slates for cult-units-as-troops and cult-units-as-elites are separate entities (that's how they are in the Index after all).

the_trooper wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but the codex isn't out yet, right? Where was it stated that world eaters don't get berserker troops?

 mrhappyface wrote:

the_trooper wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but the codex isn't out yet, right? Where was it stated that world eaters don't get berserker troops?

It's because, when people flipped through the codex (people who got it early) there were no entries for cult troops like there were in the index.

However, now people are saying that cult units are troops in their legion armies (something from Frontline Gaming).

the_trooper wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but the codex isn't out yet, right? Where was it stated that world eaters don't get berserker troops?

the_trooper wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

the_trooper wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but the codex isn't out yet, right? Where was it stated that world eaters don't get berserker troops?

It's because, when people flipped through the codex (people who got it early) there were no entries for cult troops like there were in the index.

However, now people are saying that cult units are troops in their legion armies (something from Frontline Gaming).

On a side note, I enjoy the combination of the divisiveness of cult units not being troops and the divisiveness of your avatar.

EDIT Good post / avatar combo

“Can I combine units from the index and a codex into one army?

The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version.”

 mrhappyface wrote:

the_trooper wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but the codex isn't out yet, right? Where was it stated that world eaters don't get berserker troops?

It's because, when people flipped through the codex (people who got it early) there were no entries for cult troops like there were in the index.

However, now people are saying that cult units are troops in their legion armies (something from Frontline Gaming).

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Kytan Ravager is 514 points for a 8 shot Kytan Gatling cannon and 22 wounds.

A Lord of skulls after our new codex comes out is 607 points when equipped with a Ichor cannon and a Hades Gatling cannon. The Hades Gatling shoots 12 shots while the Ichor is range 48, shoots d6 shots, has ap -4 and does d3 damage. The lord of skulls also has 28 wounds.

Personally, I think after the points drop, I would take Lord of skulls any day now over the Kytan Ravager. And if demonforge causes a Kytan Engine to turn anything it trains its gun on into a red mist. Then, what more if you use demonforge on a Lord of Skulls... lol

 DarklyDreaming wrote:
Have you noticed how strong the Obliterators are now? They should cost like a full laser predator, but if you do the math, they shoot better against any target. With the teleportarium you avoid the apha strike predators suffers, and being 3 models, is so easy to put them in cover... and the slannesh stratagem, my god.

Mazzyx wrote:
Considering that their is a written rule, not just data slates, in the Index that says for example Emperor's Children can take Noise Marines as troops that rule either is in the EC children section or still counts.

The could of not separated the data slates like they did in index which is stupid if they don't have a written two sentences that mark bezerker horde or masters of kakophoni and so on.

Knowing GW they could of probably overlooked that and will have to FAQ it. Hopefully on Saturday as we are a few weeks out from like NOVA here and such.

Edit:

Looked the FLG link above. It is in the comments but he says you can still take cult units as troops for your legion.

 Sersi wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
Considering that their is a written rule, not just data slates, in the Index that says for example Emperor's Children can take Noise Marines as troops that rule either is in the EC children section or still counts.

The could of not separated the data slates like they did in index which is stupid if they don't have a written two sentences that mark bezerker horde or masters of kakophoni and so on.

Knowing GW they could of probably overlooked that and will have to FAQ it. Hopefully on Saturday as we are a few weeks out from like NOVA here and such.

Edit:

Looked the FLG link above. It is in the comments but he says you can still take cult units as troops for your legion.

Can you quote what your referencing in the Frontline link. I see mention of using old data slates for specific option if you have the model. But nothing from Reecius explicitly saying cults can be taken as troops in the comments. I even directly asked but haven't gotten a reply yet.

Summoning is very good. The top Daemon player at the BAO had 600 pts of his list in his summoning pool. I often summon in a big unit of Bloodletters in my faux-KDK army and they are extremely good. And yeah, Cult Legions can still take them as troops.

 Sersi wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
Considering that their is a written rule, not just data slates, in the Index that says for example Emperor's Children can take Noise Marines as troops that rule either is in the EC children section or still counts.

The could of not separated the data slates like they did in index which is stupid if they don't have a written two sentences that mark bezerker horde or masters of kakophoni and so on.

Knowing GW they could of probably overlooked that and will have to FAQ it. Hopefully on Saturday as we are a few weeks out from like NOVA here and such.

Edit:

Looked the FLG link above. It is in the comments but he says you can still take cult units as troops for your legion.

Can you quote what your referencing in the Frontline link. I see mention of using old data slates for specific option if you have the model. But nothing from Reecius explicitly saying cults can be taken as troops in the comments. I even directly asked but haven't gotten a reply yet.

Been very happy with what I’ve seen so far.
So you mention cult marines as troops. So can World Eaters and Emperor’s Children still take their cult marines as troops?
Also as a Word Bearer I think people that keep dissing summoning forget that daemons don’t deepstrike on their own anymore. Love that relic.

Summoning is very good. The top Daemon player at the BAO had 600 pts of his list in his summoning pool. I often summon in a big unit of Bloodletters in my faux-KDK army and they are extremely good. And yeah, Cult Legions can still take them as troops.

 scommy wrote:
Abaddon seems pretty solid now. does his shooting / morale aura apply to Cultists?

jcd386 wrote:

 scommy wrote:
Abaddon seems pretty solid now. does his shooting / morale aura apply to Cultists?

Yup. IW also have a warlord trait that gives ignore morale so they work pretty good with cultists as well.

Abby seems good on his own, but I don't see much reason to take BL unless you feel like it for fluffy reasons as their LT is not the most useful IMO.

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
Considering that their is a written rule, not just data slates, in the Index that says for example Emperor's Children can take Noise Marines as troops that rule either is in the EC children section or still counts.

The could of not separated the data slates like they did in index which is stupid if they don't have a written two sentences that mark bezerker horde or masters of kakophoni and so on.

Knowing GW they could of probably overlooked that and will have to FAQ it. Hopefully on Saturday as we are a few weeks out from like NOVA here and such.

Edit:

Looked the FLG link above. It is in the comments but he says you can still take cult units as troops for your legion.

Can you quote what your referencing in the Frontline link. I see mention of using old data slates for specific option if you have the model. But nothing from Reecius explicitly saying cults can be taken as troops in the comments. I even directly asked but haven't gotten a reply yet.

Summoning is very good. The top Daemon player at the BAO had 600 pts of his list in his summoning pool. I often summon in a big unit of Bloodletters in my faux-KDK army and they are extremely good. And yeah, Cult Legions can still take them as troops.

ctrl F type in the above to confirm

Can Noise Marines and Berserkers still be taken as troops by their legions?

Winter SEO:

They are an elite slot now. The legion thing does not change that.

Can World Eaters and Emperor's Children still take cult units as troops?

Forge The Narrative:
.
They can't. But... the detachments in the main rule book make this less of a hurdle.

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
Considering that their is a written rule, not just data slates, in the Index that says for example Emperor's Children can take Noise Marines as troops that rule either is in the EC children section or still counts.

The could of not separated the data slates like they did in index which is stupid if they don't have a written two sentences that mark bezerker horde or masters of kakophoni and so on.

Knowing GW they could of probably overlooked that and will have to FAQ it. Hopefully on Saturday as we are a few weeks out from like NOVA here and such.

Edit:

Looked the FLG link above. It is in the comments but he says you can still take cult units as troops for your legion.

Can you quote what your referencing in the Frontline link. I see mention of using old data slates for specific option if you have the model. But nothing from Reecius explicitly saying cults can be taken as troops in the comments. I even directly asked but haven't gotten a reply yet.

Summoning is very good. The top Daemon player at the BAO had 600 pts of his list in his summoning pool. I often summon in a big unit of Bloodletters in my faux-KDK army and they are extremely good. And yeah, Cult Legions can still take them as troops.

ctrl F type in the above to confirm

Thanks for that. I do wonder if Reecius is quoting from the codex though; or going off the index. Since asked both the guys from "Winter SEO" and "Forge the Narrative" and both said there was no mention of taking cults as troops in the codex.

Can Noise Marines and Berserkers still be taken as troops by their legions?

Winter SEO:

They are an elite slot now. The legion thing does not change that.

Can World Eaters and Emperor's Children still take cult units as troops?

Forge The Narrative:
.
They can't. But... the detachments in the main rule book make this less of a hurdle.

I don't know really. It doesn't sound like the codex makes them troops but you can use the entry in the Chaos Index. This is going to take an FAQ for clarity.

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

Mazzyx wrote:
Considering that their is a written rule, not just data slates, in the Index that says for example Emperor's Children can take Noise Marines as troops that rule either is in the EC children section or still counts.

The could of not separated the data slates like they did in index which is stupid if they don't have a written two sentences that mark bezerker horde or masters of kakophoni and so on.

Knowing GW they could of probably overlooked that and will have to FAQ it. Hopefully on Saturday as we are a few weeks out from like NOVA here and such.

Edit:

Looked the FLG link above. It is in the comments but he says you can still take cult units as troops for your legion.

Can you quote what your referencing in the Frontline link. I see mention of using old data slates for specific option if you have the model. But nothing from Reecius explicitly saying cults can be taken as troops in the comments. I even directly asked but haven't gotten a reply yet.

Summoning is very good. The top Daemon player at the BAO had 600 pts of his list in his summoning pool. I often summon in a big unit of Bloodletters in my faux-KDK army and they are extremely good. And yeah, Cult Legions can still take them as troops.

ctrl F type in the above to confirm

Thanks for that. I do wonder if Reecius is quoting from the codex though; or going off the index. Since asked both the guys from "Winter SEO" and "Forge the Narrative" and both said there was no mention of taking cults as troops in the codex.

Can Noise Marines and Berserkers still be taken as troops by their legions?

Winter SEO:

They are an elite slot now. The legion thing does not change that.

Can World Eaters and Emperor's Children still take cult units as troops?

Forge The Narrative:
.
They can't. But... the detachments in the main rule book make this less of a hurdle.

I don't know really. It doesn't sound like the codex makes them troops but you can use the entry in the Chaos Index. This is going to take an FAQ for clarity.

 Sersi wrote:
The Frontline youtube channel or podcast?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Nothing wrong with Emperor's Children. Slanaash is the go to for Shooty CSM this edition.

Hmmm, about the Alpha legion's stratagem of infiltration forward unit to 9 inches. Someone told me this can be done with several units instead of one? Also, are such units considered part of reserve of part of deployment on the board or with the units in reserve (for deep strike).

So, if I have 6 units to deploy as forward operatives and 6 in deep strike. Will that fufill the requirement of half my units in reserve? Or will this be seen as having 12 units in reserve?

 Rydria wrote:
Frontline gaming haven't said anything about Emperor's children at all perhaps they are the worst legion despite slaanesh being so good ?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
EC and Slaanesh Marines in general are arguably the strongest sub-faction in CSM right now.

If any one God/legion got the shaft, I'd say it's probably Nurgle. Their units are tough but their offensive power seems pretty gakky.

Arachnofiend wrote:
DG is coming out after the twin-release of CSM and Grey Knights. Probably early/mid September, but that's just a guess.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 DarklyDreaming wrote:
Have you noticed how strong the Obliterators are now? They should cost like a full laser predator, but if you do the math, they shoot better against any target. With the teleportarium you avoid the apha strike predators suffers, and being 3 models, is so easy to put them in cover... and the slannesh stratagem, my god.

Thanks! Your comment made me take a look at them again. Wow... 4 shots per Obliterator now really might make a difference. Their firepower is effectively doubled now from before. Their weakness and strength is that they are a three wound model, so they are a really good target for stuff like lascannons, missile launchers. But consider this, one lascannon Havoc shoot once, while an Obliterator shoots 4 times. Even if you end up with str7, ap -1 shots, its still 4 shots versus the havoc's one shot. And the difference in cost is smaller than it looks. A 5 man squad of Havocs with lascannons cost 165 points and fires 4 shots. A 3 man Obliterator costs 195 points and fires 12 shots! Its just 30 more points. Would you mind paying 30 more points for 8 more shots (admittedly of variable quality lol).

And like what Darkly Dreaming said, with teleportarium you are assured to at least get one round of shooting, and the Slannesh stratagem on them is sick. Also, they are considered Infantry, so they benefit from legion traits. An Alpha legion obliterator gets a -1 to hit when you try and shoot it from over 12 inches away. An Iron warrior obliterator ignores cover when shooting.

Gibs55 wrote:
Challenge!

Which faction can make the most powerful non-special character warlord?

Eldenfirefly wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
Challenge!

Which faction can make the most powerful non-special character warlord?

I think it depends on how you see it. Powerful, but need to also get into combat. Else will just get shot to death.

My candidates:

Juggerlord with either axe of biting fury or Talisman of burning blood plus WE warlord trait. (is higher strength attacks and -AP more important, or ability to attack after charging).

Jump pack Nightlord character with its relic and warlord trait is very good too

Slanaash flying Daemonprince with drugs is also really good.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
Challenge!

Which faction can make the most powerful non-special character warlord?

I think it depends on how you see it. Powerful, but need to also get into combat. Else will just get shot to death.

My candidates:

Juggerlord with either axe of biting fury or Talisman of burning blood plus WE warlord trait. (is higher strength attacks and -AP more important, or ability to attack after charging).

Jump pack Nightlord character with its relic and warlord trait is very good too

Slanaash flying Daemonprince with drugs is also really good.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
EC and Slaanesh Marines in general are arguably the strongest sub-faction in CSM right now.

If any one God/legion got the shaft, I'd say it's probably Nurgle. Their units are tough but their offensive power seems pretty gakky.

 Rydria wrote:
I don't see how bloodletters are trash, they are the most cost efficient power swords in the game.

There big weakness is getting shot which can be negated by either summoning them within 9 inch then having them pull off a 8 inch charge (instruments) where they will slaughter what ever they charged.

Or by using a wave tactics using fast units/deep striking units that provide a significant threat and forcing your opponent to deal with those first.

The above tactics work for both khorne and slaanesh though the later works better for slaanesh due to being a bit faster.