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Post by: tneva82
Mandragola wrote:
I'm increasingly convinced that the Castellan and Valiant will be seperate kits, as the Armiger and Helliger appear to be. Clearly think the answer to the "missing" sprue for the Armiger is the one with the autocannons and "household" style armour. Check out the Armiger sprue with weapons - it's also got the admech armour plates and faces:
FLGS said they are 2 separate boxes. Unlike say ork mek guns which are 4 different unit on GW web site but only 1 box to order from. I would be stunned if castellan and valiant aren\t separate kits. Q is if armigers comes in box with both variants or not. I fear not for maximum customer unfriendliness :( Automatically Appended Next Post:  casvalremdeikun wrote: Kanluwen wrote:This is extremely unsurprising. We've known since Forgebane there was a sprue missing for the Armigers-- GW themselves actually confirmed it.
We haven't seen an answer yet one way or the other with regards to the Armiger Warglaive sprues being in the box. Hopefully they are, as those sprues shouldn't be too bad.
The question is if the Warglaive is a completely separate kit from Helverins, each including one weapon sprue. Given how the Dominus-class knights are largely identical, but have different weapon arms and alternate carapace armor. I am also almost wondering if the Armiger will be two Knights per box. They are always depicted in pairs. I guess that wouldn't be the worst thing.
FLG noted 2 per box. 1 would be bonkers as you could buy forge bane for price of 2. Armiger separate box would never sell much as long as forge bane would be on sale.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Kanluwen wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: Kanluwen wrote:This is extremely unsurprising. We've known since Forgebane there was a sprue missing for the Armigers-- GW themselves actually confirmed it.
We haven't seen an answer yet one way or the other with regards to the Armiger Warglaive sprues being in the box. Hopefully they are, as those sprues shouldn't be too bad.
The question is if the Warglaive is a completely separate kit from Helverins, each including one weapon sprue. Given how the Dominus-class knights are largely identical, but have different weapon arms and alternate carapace armor. I am also almost wondering if the Armiger will be two Knights per box. They are always depicted in pairs. I guess that wouldn't be the worst thing.
The showcased pictures are always the product they'll provide. It's 2 Armigers per box.
The Dominus-class each had a separate picture for each item.
That is a good point, I guess I never really looked at it that way. I think that drives down the probability of there being six sprues in the box. Probably four sprues in two separate boxes, though I suppose it could be a bigger box (Rhino sized), with the sprues still connected together. I guess we will see. I have all the Armigers I want right now, and don't really care for the look of the Helverins (that and a meltagun on dudes that look like they are going to hang in the back? No thanks.
So, we know what all the Houses do. Do we know if there is a Freeblade tradition? I am kinda torn on what I am going to do for a tradition. Leaning Raven, but Terryn and Griffith are both looking quite nice too. Be it that Canis Rex will likely be my Warlord, I am curious what tradition he will use.
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Post by: MajorWesJanson
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Post by: drazz
Freeblades are reportedly given bonuses per model, but with a negative associated as well.
Canis Rex will not be from a household.
I’m thinking each detachment can be from different households, if that helps any.
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Post by: tneva82
 drazz wrote:Freeblades are reportedly given bonuses per model, but with a negative associated as well.
Canis Rex will not be from a household.
I’m thinking each detachment can be from different households, if that helps any.
Last one is given. That's how every army works. Of course how many knight detachments you expect to see in an army...Well maybe 1 LOW detachments but 2 of those is still dodgy due to 3 detachment limit and no CP's.
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Post by: Blitza da warboy
40 usd? Thats....a tad way too much
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Post by: ImAGeek
What’s 40 usd? The Armiger masks are £5.22.
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Post by: Breotan
That's the problem with Shapeways. You can get something like a set of MEQ shoulder pads for a price you can at least stomach but anything larger and you're paying through the nose. The resin they use is expensive. The up side is you get the best detail currently available from a 3D printer.
Just have to decide for yourself if the premium price is worth what you're ordering.
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Post by: tneva82
Those miniguns look sweet and were what I expected rather than beefed up autocannons.
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Post by: CragHack
Anyone got a pic of the terrain piece?
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Post by: BrookM
Here ya go:
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Oh wow. That guy has so much more than I thought he did.
Cool. Thanks! 
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Are we sure that is even the terrain piece? It looks like a hodge podge of bits from other kits, but not in a way that could be accomplished very easily. If it is, I will be getting at least one. It is a decently cool piece of terrain.
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Post by: CragHack
If the techpriest is included - that's pretty good value. Some nice bits for ZM/NM terrain.
Waste of cash if you've bought Shadow War and still have the terrain, though.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 CragHack wrote:If the techpriest is included - that's pretty good value. Some nice bits for ZM/ NM terrain.
But there's so much left over that it doesn't sound right. I mean one of the objective sprues just for that cabinet? One of the Servo-Hauler sprues just for that crane arm?
CragHack wrote:Waste of cash if you've bought Shadow War and still have the terrain, though.
Lies!!! 
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Post by: BrookM
We'll find out at the end of the week when the first pre-orders go up.
I doubt the Techpriest would be included for the price given, but it that's the case.. damn it, right after I bit the bullet and got one as a Sacristan for my own upcoming Knight project. 
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I just got that mini as well. We need more plastic Tech-Priests.
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Post by: Astmeister
changemod wrote:
I am. Sure, invulnerable saves can make it disappointing against some targets, leviathans for example, but a nice clean rerollable hit and 2+ to wound will be very nice for punching through things more reliably than it’s meltas would alone. It’s also going to do damage more reliably than a low roll on the volcano lance would, even if a high roll on the number of shots would obviously outdo it.
Absolutely not, I like the knight’s all rounder balance of weaponry and the harpoon is pretty awesome looking.
I’ll absolutely take three twin cannons if I can though: Never been much of a fan of single use weaponry.
Single use weaponry is fine. I'd definitely take two missiles - though no more. Games are often over and things are very often dead by turn 3, so it's much better to have a second turret firing on turns 1 and 2 rather than a second pair of missiles. The first pair do good things though, especially if you can pick out an important character with them.
I think I prefer the Valiant to the Castellan. If I'm paying for 4 melta guns, I want to be where I can fire them at things. The Valiant's other guns are a better combo with its secondary stuff, basically.
I'm still not sure about the harpoon. 12" range is awful, but rerolls to hit are good and it wounds basically everything on a 2+. I think the flamer is better than the other guns by a wide enough margin that it's ok to have the crazy harpoon. It's just a nice bonus if it hits.
Having said all that I'm still not convinced these guys are more efficient than normal knights. I'm willing to give them a try though.
I'm increasingly convinced that the Castellan and Valiant will be seperate kits, as the Armiger and Helliger appear to be. Clearly think the answer to the "missing" sprue for the Armiger is the one with the autocannons and "household" style armour. Check out the Armiger sprue with weapons - it's also got the admech armour plates and faces:
I agree with you on most points. The Flamer is super interesting, while the Harpoon seems to be a bit of an Anna Kurnikova. Looks good, but doesn't win anything.
The Flamer can be super important against things like Alaitoc Hemlocks and such.
The Castellan is better against elite infantry and super heavies. But I am not sure that you will need this.
The major thing going for both knights for me is the Missile weapon targeting characters or crippling invulnerable things.
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Post by: Mymearan
casvalremdeikun wrote:Are we sure that is even the terrain piece? It looks like a hodge podge of bits from other kits, but not in a way that could be accomplished very easily. If it is, I will be getting at least one. It is a decently cool piece of terrain.
That is the terrain piece, yes. It's explicitly named and shown in the Warhammer Community article. I don't know how they're doing it though since it has parts from a ton of different sprues. Might be a really good deal actually.
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Post by: lolman1c
I seriously think the boxed game is going up in price to about £140-50. Every store here is advertising it for more than that (so take into account if it's 170 here it will be like 150 in england).
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
 Mymearan wrote:
That is the terrain piece, yes. It's explicitly named and shown in the Warhammer Community article. I don't know how they're doing it though since it has parts from a ton of different sprues. Might be a really good deal actually.
Those are all digital assets; it's not impossible that they've done new sprues.
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Post by: Chikout
This was not in the article originally. They edited it in later.
1
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Post by: tneva82
 lolman1c wrote:I seriously think the boxed game is going up in price to about £140-50. Every store here is advertising it for more than that (so take into account if it's 170 here it will be like 150 in england).
Renegade? FLGS quoted me 165€ when asking for people who want to get one on first day
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Mymearan wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:Are we sure that is even the terrain piece? It looks like a hodge podge of bits from other kits, but not in a way that could be accomplished very easily. If it is, I will be getting at least one. It is a decently cool piece of terrain.
That is the terrain piece, yes. It's explicitly named and shown in the Warhammer Community article. I don't know how they're doing it though since it has parts from a ton of different sprues. Might be a really good deal actually.
It wasn't in the article initially. Regardless, since that is the terrain piece, I will probably pick up at least one of them. It fits in well with my Ad Mech tabletop. It could be decommissioned at times (my map is of a ruined Forge World). It might actually be worth taking if the rumors are true and it makes the knights fire maximum shots. Should be fun. Looks cool regardless.
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Post by: Mymearan
casvalremdeikun wrote: Mymearan wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:Are we sure that is even the terrain piece? It looks like a hodge podge of bits from other kits, but not in a way that could be accomplished very easily. If it is, I will be getting at least one. It is a decently cool piece of terrain.
That is the terrain piece, yes. It's explicitly named and shown in the Warhammer Community article. I don't know how they're doing it though since it has parts from a ton of different sprues. Might be a really good deal actually.
It wasn't in the article initially. Regardless, since that is the terrain piece, I will probably pick up at least one of them. It fits in well with my Ad Mech tabletop. It could be decommissioned at times (my map is of a ruined Forge World). It might actually be worth taking if the rumors are true and it makes the knights fire maximum shots. Should be fun. Looks cool regardless.
The maximum shots thing is also from the WHC article, although not the exact wording of the rule.
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Post by: changemod
Mymearan wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: Mymearan wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:Are we sure that is even the terrain piece? It looks like a hodge podge of bits from other kits, but not in a way that could be accomplished very easily. If it is, I will be getting at least one. It is a decently cool piece of terrain.
That is the terrain piece, yes. It's explicitly named and shown in the Warhammer Community article. I don't know how they're doing it though since it has parts from a ton of different sprues. Might be a really good deal actually.
It wasn't in the article initially. Regardless, since that is the terrain piece, I will probably pick up at least one of them. It fits in well with my Ad Mech tabletop. It could be decommissioned at times (my map is of a ruined Forge World). It might actually be worth taking if the rumors are true and it makes the knights fire maximum shots. Should be fun. Looks cool regardless.
The maximum shots thing is also from the WHC article, although not the exact wording of the rule.
Oh, I’d missed that, let me check:
“Used offensively, you can ensure that your weapons with a random number of shots (like the volcano lance wielded by the new Knight Castellan) always perform at maximum effectiveness.”
Yeah if you don’t read that with a “what’s the most broken thing that could mean?” mindset, it just sounds like a reroll.
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Post by: gungo
Someone said it before but they are correct the harpoon would have been better with a similar knight guantlet rule tossing the target 9in if it suffers any damage into an enemy unit and causing both units d3 mortal wounds. At least it would be a cool rule.
Regarding the terrain piece I’m disappointed in it. I have all the parts already to make it. It also seems very slapstick and not a proper knight station. I would have preferred Something new even if aesthetically it was the same type of sector mechanicus terrain.
Looks like it is just codex and datasheets (mostly for tokens) preorders for me. I’ll likely pick up the Castellan after I read the codex and decide which knight as a centerpiece as I’m not buying both but would have magnetized the two if given the chance.
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Post by: changemod
Now that I think about it, the mortal wounds mean that if you’re stuck with only infantry in range, the harpoon can still take a little chunk out of infantry, moreso than a single shot weapon usually would have anyhow.
A shame they didn’t do more with that overspill mechanic, would have been cool if say, for every 10 models in a unit it did an extra D3 to represent the harpoon smashing through the ranks.
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Post by: Sim-Life
gak. I think I'm getting at least one knight because I want to run it as House Griffith and paint "He Did Nothing Wrong" on it.
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Post by: Galas
 Sim-Life wrote:gak. I think I'm getting at least one knight because I want to run it as House Griffith and paint "He Did Nothing Wrong" on it.
How could you...
ZOOOOOOOOOOODD!!!!!!!
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Post by: akaean
If you are going to write something on a Knight, it should be 'AHAB' down the barrel of the Harpoon Launcher.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
If the rumored point changes are correct, then a Crusader is almost 80pts cheaper than it was before.
I'm hard pressed to find the big boys worth it when Crusaders are sub-500 now. We'll see, I guess.
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Post by: anyname121
The more details we're getting of these knights the more I want one. Not even for gaming, just for giggles. The guns are just mad and it looks fantastic.
I want to see one in a game very soon though. Just watch it tear through everything then get gunned down. Cos you know this will be the main target for the opposing army.
Points changes would be excellent as well. Putting Armiger Knights sub-200 points would be excellent.
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Post by: Inquisitor Kallus
Sim-Life wrote:gak. I think I'm getting at least one knight because I want to run it as House Griffith and paint "He Did Nothing Wrong" on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWt5WB7wtJ0
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Post by: McMagnus Mindbullets
I really want to run a librarian with null zone near to guilliman then nuke him with the harpoon. Ah this is gonna be fun
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
It just seems so unlikely that GW would make a kit that contains:
1x this sprue.
1x this sprue.
1x this sprue.
2x this sprue.
1x this sprue.
1x this sprue.
I mean, so much of those last two aren't even used in the shown terrain piece. And you end up with incomplete things (like the incomplete medical table from the objectives sprue - that needs the clear plastic bit for the light and for the escape pod window).
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Post by: GuardStrider
 Cephalobeard wrote:If the rumored point changes are correct, then a Crusader is almost 80pts cheaper than it was before.
I'm hard pressed to find the big boys worth it when Crusaders are sub-500 now. We'll see, I guess.
Yeah, I am pretty sure next month I will get a knight (I want a shooty cool LoW to help my GKs, well either a Knight or spam russes) but I wonder which will be most cost effective right now, specially once the stratagems enter the equation.
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Post by: beast_gts
If they've got all those modelled in CAD they could just dump them off onto a new sprue - but it seems like a lot of work for very little return.
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Post by: EnTyme
I believe this may be a new kit (new sprue) that uses CAD elements from those sprues.
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Post by: luke1705
Hey sorry if this has been posted already, but do we know if we can take a double volcano variant or a double flamer variant? That's probably going to make or break it for me if we can't double up on the guns
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Post by: Karhedron
 luke1705 wrote:Hey sorry if this has been posted already, but do we know if we can take a double volcano variant or a double flamer variant? That's probably going to make or break it for me if we can't double up on the guns
Not confirmed yet but since the medium knights can't generally double-up on weapons, I think it is going to be unlikely. Automatically Appended Next Post:  anyname121 wrote:Points changes would be excellent as well. Putting Armiger Knights sub-200 points would be excellent.
I though we had already seen that Armigers are coming down about 40 points each as well as Warglaives getting a slash attack to help deal with hordes.
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Post by: Astmeister
luke1705 wrote:Hey sorry if this has been posted already, but do we know if we can take a double volcano variant or a double flamer variant? That's probably going to make or break it for me if we can't double up on the guns
AFAIK there is no real information on this, but it seems like you cannot do this. It would be pretty crazy, when they put two times every gun in the sprues from a business perspective. This costs much more. And there will certainly be no knight variants that you cannot build out of a single sprue.
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Post by: Mymearan
 EnTyme wrote:
I believe this may be a new kit (new sprue) that uses CAD elements from those sprues.
Seems like a huge waste of resources to create new sprues with nothing but existing bits... I don’t think they would do that, and I’m pretty sure they never have. On the other hand, I can’t see them including all those sprues either!
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Post by: Insurgency Walker
Maybe CAD file madness will make it a reality but even then why use such an odd assortment of parts. It will still feel very kit bashed, while not a bad thing it seems if nothing else rushed. Maybe stocking delays is why they didn't reveal as much a few weeks ago? They should have just made a wheeled crawler.
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Post by: beast_gts
House Vulker from FB:
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
CAD File Madness also might mean that Canis Rex comes with just one extra sprue than the base Knight rather than two (one sprue for the Canis Rex bits, the other sprue for the Thunderstrike Gauntlet). I suppose I would be okay with that, though another Avenger Gatling Cannon and the Carapace weapons would have been a welcome addition).
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
Wait is the renegade box set really around $160 USD? That's almost the price of just one knight. That's insane if true. I figured that box was going to be well above $200
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Post by: Insurgency Walker
Total win pricewise
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Post by: Astmeister
I think it is 165 Euro, so should be much more USD.
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Post by: EnTyme
Renegade was $195 USD on the first run. I'm thinking it'll be the same price.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
$165 after the standard 15% discount online.
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Post by: BrookM
Renegade will remain the same price as before, it just has different terrain included now, plus slightly reworked rules probably.
The Knights are €234,- and the terrain piece is €60,- on its own, so massive savings, or one free Knight.
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Post by: PiñaColada
https://spikeybits.com/2018/05/rise-of-the-dominus-new-rules-rumors.html
Some juicy rumours here:
Rules Rumors
According to the latest, Dominus class knights always have a chance to explode in a whopping 3d6 radius doing d6 Mortal wounds to everything around them. There is also a detonation stratagem that betters the odds of this happening to a more regular occurrence, perfect for that noble sacrifice!
As you can see from the Shieldbreaker missile profile above and its sniper stratagem, reloading said missiles in the Forgeshrine may be worth it to finish off pesky units or characters late game.
Buff wise there is a relic that confers a 2+ save, and a warlord trait that lowers the ion shield to a 4+ for the game, making your warlord quite the walking fortress with the ability to rotate ions down to a 3+ with the stratagem above.
Will you choose that or the trait that gives you one re-roll and Command Points?
Also if you like that plasma gun, but think it’s a little lacking on punch for such a large model, Cawl has a relic that bumps it to S9 -4ap 3 damage on the overcharge. Now you’re playing with POWER!
That plasma would suddenly become amazing. I do wonder if it only makes the overcharged shots better or bumps all stats.. And maybe mechanicus only?
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Why would Cawl be involved in this Codex at all? I legitimately don't understand.
If he somehow gains an Imperial Knight tag and can be used along them and provide rerolls, im down. Otherwise, confused.
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Post by: PiñaColada
Cephalobeard wrote:Why would Cawl be involved in this Codex at all? I legitimately don't understand.
If he somehow gains an Imperial Knight tag and can be used along them and provide rerolls, im down. Otherwise, confused.
I assume they just mean a "cawl pattern" plasma weapon, so more like the ones that the primaris use
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Post by: Cephalobeard
PiñaColada wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Why would Cawl be involved in this Codex at all? I legitimately don't understand.
If he somehow gains an Imperial Knight tag and can be used along them and provide rerolls, im down. Otherwise, confused.
I assume they just mean a "cawl pattern" plasma weapon, so more like the ones that the primaris use
Ah, fair enough.
I need more info. Having a 2+/3+ Knight doesn't sound too shabby.
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Post by: PiñaColada
A tougher knight would be pretty sweet as well, but I'm still bitter that they didn't change all the big knights to a 2+ save anyways.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Agreed. It's confusing my walking fortress has weaker armor than a terminator the size of his toe.
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Post by: tneva82
Cephalobeard wrote:PiñaColada wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Why would Cawl be involved in this Codex at all? I legitimately don't understand.
If he somehow gains an Imperial Knight tag and can be used along them and provide rerolls, im down. Otherwise, confused.
I assume they just mean a "cawl pattern" plasma weapon, so more like the ones that the primaris use
Ah, fair enough.
I need more info. Having a 2+/3+ Knight doesn't sound too shabby.
Not sure if worthwhile. What ap-less guns shoot at one? I would split those if possible.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
tneva82 wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:PiñaColada wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Why would Cawl be involved in this Codex at all? I legitimately don't understand.
If he somehow gains an Imperial Knight tag and can be used along them and provide rerolls, im down. Otherwise, confused.
I assume they just mean a "cawl pattern" plasma weapon, so more like the ones that the primaris use
Ah, fair enough.
I need more info. Having a 2+/3+ Knight doesn't sound too shabby.
Not sure if worthwhile. What ap-less guns shoot at one? I would split those if possible.
To clarify here, you're saying having a 2+ or 3++ isn't worthwhile? A two up save when a Knight, as it stands, has no invuln in melee (And things like Custodes spears would currently remove the entire armor save from) or a T28 670pt Monster Knight which has a giant "Shoot me with lascannons" banner on it, would not be worthwhile to have a 3++?
Unless your point is that *stacking* them isn't great, in which case I would say that's a fine point, writing it the way I did was just an easy way to digest the information.
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Post by: gendoikari87
Question: have we confirmed if that relic is only for the big knights?
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Post by: Daedalus81
Cephalobeard wrote:Agreed. It's confusing my walking fortress has weaker armor than a terminator the size of his toe.
That walking fortress doesn't get wounded by a missile on a 2+.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
 Daedalus81 wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Agreed. It's confusing my walking fortress has weaker armor than a terminator the size of his toe.
That walking fortress doesn't get wounded by a missile on a 2+.
Again, fair enough.
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Post by: BrookM
I wonder if Imperial Knights: Renegade will also have rules for the Valiant. It already has rules for most other walking super-heavies out there.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
 BrookM wrote:I wonder if Imperial Knights: Renegade will also have rules for the Valiant. It already has rules for most other walking super-heavies out there.
I'm not so secretly hoping Renegades retain the ability to double down on primary weapons, so I can rock a double flamer triple auto cannon Dominus into battle.
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Post by: BrookM
Cephalobeard wrote: BrookM wrote:I wonder if Imperial Knights: Renegade will also have rules for the Valiant. It already has rules for most other walking super-heavies out there.
I'm not so secretly hoping Renegades retain the ability to double down on primary weapons, so I can rock a double flamer triple auto cannon Dominus into battle.
Someone is obsessed eh? Ehhhh?
Just kidding, but I'm still pining for dual Avengers on a regular Knight myself. 
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Post by: Cephalobeard
BrookM wrote: Cephalobeard wrote: BrookM wrote:I wonder if Imperial Knights: Renegade will also have rules for the Valiant. It already has rules for most other walking super-heavies out there.
I'm not so secretly hoping Renegades retain the ability to double down on primary weapons, so I can rock a double flamer triple auto cannon Dominus into battle.
Someone is obsessed eh? Ehhhh?
Just kidding, but I'm still pining for dual Avengers on a regular Knight myself.
Listen, Listen, I am not ashamed to admit I'm obsessed. The idea of an enraged machine spirit tossing itself into combat, burninating everything and then exploding is the greatest thing I can imagine.
I definitely have been going on a tangent about it for many pages, lol, my apologies. Just very hyped.
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Post by: tneva82
Cephalobeard wrote:tneva82 wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:PiñaColada wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Why would Cawl be involved in this Codex at all? I legitimately don't understand.
If he somehow gains an Imperial Knight tag and can be used along them and provide rerolls, im down. Otherwise, confused.
I assume they just mean a "cawl pattern" plasma weapon, so more like the ones that the primaris use
Ah, fair enough.
I need more info. Having a 2+/3+ Knight doesn't sound too shabby.
Not sure if worthwhile. What ap-less guns shoot at one? I would split those if possible.
To clarify here, you're saying having a 2+ or 3++ isn't worthwhile? A two up save when a Knight, as it stands, has no invuln in melee (And things like Custodes spears would currently remove the entire armor save from) or a T28 670pt Monster Knight which has a giant "Shoot me with lascannons" banner on it, would not be worthwhile to have a 3++?
Unless your point is that *stacking* them isn't great, in which case I would say that's a fine point, writing it the way I did was just an easy way to digest the information.
Having both on same. I feel 2+/5+ and 3+4+ would be better. Albeit h2h save help is good point but still. I would spread survivability boosts.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
tneva82 wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:tneva82 wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:PiñaColada wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Why would Cawl be involved in this Codex at all? I legitimately don't understand.
If he somehow gains an Imperial Knight tag and can be used along them and provide rerolls, im down. Otherwise, confused.
I assume they just mean a "cawl pattern" plasma weapon, so more like the ones that the primaris use
Ah, fair enough.
I need more info. Having a 2+/3+ Knight doesn't sound too shabby.
Not sure if worthwhile. What ap-less guns shoot at one? I would split those if possible.
To clarify here, you're saying having a 2+ or 3++ isn't worthwhile? A two up save when a Knight, as it stands, has no invuln in melee (And things like Custodes spears would currently remove the entire armor save from) or a T28 670pt Monster Knight which has a giant "Shoot me with lascannons" banner on it, would not be worthwhile to have a 3++?
Unless your point is that *stacking* them isn't great, in which case I would say that's a fine point, writing it the way I did was just an easy way to digest the information.
Having both on same. I feel 2+/5+ and 3+4+ would be better. Albeit h2h save help is good point but still. I would spread survivability boosts.
I'll be excited to see what we can do.
Here's hoping we get the Crown relic or whatever from 7th that increases the Inv save by 1, and maybe we can have two 4++ Knights at a time.
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Post by: BrookM
Cephalobeard wrote:I definitely have been going on a tangent about it for many pages, lol, my apologies. Just very hyped.
Nononono, never apologize for wanting to be awesome.
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Post by: PiñaColada
Dual wielding would be cool, but buying 2 valiants just to get both conflagration cannons seems like financial suicide  I'm personally liking the look of the castellan more so I'm crossing all the mechanical digits I have that the plasma relic is real so that arm doesn't feel like a liability
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Post by: gungo
If given the choice I’d take the 2+ relic over the 4++ invul only becuase knights look like CP hogs and need an army that farms CPs with those CP farming warlord traits.
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Post by: BrookM
PiñaColada wrote:Dual wielding would be cool, but buying 2 valiants just to get both conflagration cannons seems like financial suicide I'm personally liking the look of the castellan more so I'm crossing all the mechanical digits I have that the plasma relic is real so that arm doesn't feel like a liability
If one has dual flamers, that would mean that the other one has dual harpoons..
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Post by: whalemusic360
BrookM wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:I definitely have been going on a tangent about it for many pages, lol, my apologies. Just very hyped.
Nononono, never apologize for wanting to be awesome.
That knight has an extra finger and it is bugging me.
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Post by: BrookM
It is also missing a heavy flamer, I envy it for being cheaper than the one I usually field. :(
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Post by: gendoikari87
BrookM wrote:PiñaColada wrote:Dual wielding would be cool, but buying 2 valiants just to get both conflagration cannons seems like financial suicide I'm personally liking the look of the castellan more so I'm crossing all the mechanical digits I have that the plasma relic is real so that arm doesn't feel like a liability
If one has dual flamers, that would mean that the other one has dual harpoons..
dual harpoons.... 20 damage a turn ... no 20+2d3 that’s just shy of one shotting a low a turn. Thing would turn baneblades inside out.
Also whoever that is, spot on watamote Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the big knight are looking pushed in general, hoping that means regular knights got some love too
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Regular Knights are getting love by virtue of being cheaper.
Personally, I still don't see much use *as it stands* for the smaller ones like Paladins and Errants, but there may be some additional rules yet.
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Post by: PiñaColada
Cephalobeard wrote:Regular Knights are getting love by virtue of being cheaper.
Personally, I still don't see much use *as it stands* for the smaller ones like Paladins and Errants, but there may be some additional rules yet.
I mean, they have to fix close combat weapons, right? Right?
Also, a few of the super heavy guns on the baneblade chassis got better with the AM codex, so that might still happen
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Post by: gendoikari87
Cephalobeard wrote:Regular Knights are getting love by virtue of being cheaper.
Personally, I still don't see much use *as it stands* for the smaller ones like Paladins and Errants, but there may be some additional rules yet.
I’m getting renegade because it’s cheap and making a paladin (Balthazar) and warden with fist (Tybalt)
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Post by: luke1705
 Astmeister wrote: luke1705 wrote:Hey sorry if this has been posted already, but do we know if we can take a double volcano variant or a double flamer variant? That's probably going to make or break it for me if we can't double up on the guns
AFAIK there is no real information on this, but it seems like you cannot do this. It would be pretty crazy, when they put two times every gun in the sprues from a business perspective. This costs much more. And there will certainly be no knight variants that you cannot build out of a single sprue.
They did this with the Renegade box. They gave you one of each of the 4 weapon options IIRC but you couldn't build a double gatling cannon, which was all that anyone wanted to do when the box came out. Caused the price of bits to skyrocket for that thing, some people paying upwards of $50 for it on eBay.
And I gotta say, daddy needs a double flamer and double volcano cannon variant. Or maybe just one to rock the 2+/3++ (which is absolutely amazing coming out of an auxiliary super heavy detachment)
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Post by: Cephalobeard
PiñaColada wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Regular Knights are getting love by virtue of being cheaper.
Personally, I still don't see much use *as it stands* for the smaller ones like Paladins and Errants, but there may be some additional rules yet.
I mean, they have to fix close combat weapons, right? Right?
Also, a few of the super heavy guns on the baneblade chassis got better with the AM codex, so that might still happen
It's possible, but any gun buffs just make the Crusader better by default.
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Post by: BrookM
What needs to be fixed about the Reaper and Thunderstrike gauntlet?
Personally, both the chassis and most of the weapons going down in point cost is already a massive fix for the army.
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Post by: PiñaColada
BrookM wrote:What needs to be fixed about the Reaper and Thunderstrike gauntlet?
Personally, both the chassis and most of the weapons going down in point cost is already a massive fix for the army.
They're okay. But so much worse than just more guns. The feet are actually pretty good so the justification for close combat weapons isn't really there IMO
Knights should have 6 attacks and the feet should be 2x number of attacks. So you get as many feet attacks but the weapons get substantially better
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Post by: gendoikari87
Points are not confirmed yet, let’s not count chickens before they hatch. For all we know the armiger is down to but. It the guns ect aren’t free or cheap anymore. Ect ect.
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Post by: tneva82
Cephalobeard wrote:PiñaColada wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Regular Knights are getting love by virtue of being cheaper.
Personally, I still don't see much use *as it stands* for the smaller ones like Paladins and Errants, but there may be some additional rules yet.
I mean, they have to fix close combat weapons, right? Right?
Also, a few of the super heavy guns on the baneblade chassis got better with the AM codex, so that might still happen
It's possible, but any gun buffs just make the Crusader better by default.
What if point gap between them increases?
Plus in theory if gw was competent they could up the h2h weapon stats
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Post by: LunarSol
Cephalobeard wrote:PiñaColada wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:Regular Knights are getting love by virtue of being cheaper.
Personally, I still don't see much use *as it stands* for the smaller ones like Paladins and Errants, but there may be some additional rules yet.
I mean, they have to fix close combat weapons, right? Right?
Also, a few of the super heavy guns on the baneblade chassis got better with the AM codex, so that might still happen
It's possible, but any gun buffs just make the Crusader better by default.
The different classes of those things really bug me. There's just one model with a bunch of arm options. There's only one combination that's illegal and that's only because they're largely made out of the same set of parts. The whole thing could easily be one datasheet and it would probably make it easier to tell that the arm options themselves just need to be valid options. Automatically Appended Next Post: PiñaColada wrote: BrookM wrote:What needs to be fixed about the Reaper and Thunderstrike gauntlet?
Personally, both the chassis and most of the weapons going down in point cost is already a massive fix for the army.
They're okay. But so much worse than just more guns. The feet are actually pretty good so the justification for close combat weapons isn't really there IMO
Knights should have 6 attacks and the feet should be 2x number of attacks. So you get as many feet attacks but the weapons get substantially better
The melee weapons could just be free or like.... 5 points or something. They actually do have specific uses over the feet, just not uses worth paying for.
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Post by: luke1705
Cephalobeard wrote: BrookM wrote:I wonder if Imperial Knights: Renegade will also have rules for the Valiant. It already has rules for most other walking super-heavies out there.
I'm not so secretly hoping Renegades retain the ability to double down on primary weapons, so I can rock a double flamer triple auto cannon Dominus into battle.
This would be spectacular
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Post by: aracersss
https://www.instagram.com/tsuruko/?hl=en
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Post by: changemod
There’s some people claiming on tg that the armiger autocannons are equivalent to a reaper autocannon, but I’m assuming that’s trolling.
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Post by: BrookM
Hopefully we'll see a Helverin preview tomorrow.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Well, FLG specifically called them "predator autocannons" in their stream today.
If that's true, that's 4d3 S7 ap-1 3d shots each Helliger.
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Post by: changemod
Hopefully assault predator autocannons so their mobility isn’t a waste outside of one house then.
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Post by: drazz
changemod wrote:There’s some people claiming on tg that the armiger autocannons are equivalent to a reaper autocannon, but I’m assuming that’s trolling.
Autocannon: 48 H2 7 -1 2
Reaper: 36 H4 7 -1 1
Avenger: 36 H12 6 -2 2
Icarus: 48 H4 7 -1 2
Predator: 48 H2D3 7 -1 3
Heavy Bolter: 36 H3 5 -1 1
I could see something like the Reaper for the Helverin. I'm imagining something stronger than a Heavy Bolter and regular Autocannon but weeker than the Predator. That puts it right at the Reaper, though maybe slightly lower in strength.
And that would make me happy.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
I feel like Helligers want to hunker down and shoot, where as Armigers are going to be the mobile ones.
It's unfortunate, but my gut feeling on the difference outside of the guns.
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Post by: changemod
drazz wrote:changemod wrote:There’s some people claiming on tg that the armiger autocannons are equivalent to a reaper autocannon, but I’m assuming that’s trolling.
Autocannon: 48 H2 7 -1 2
Reaper: 36 H4 7 -1 1
Avenger: 36 H12 6 -2 2
Icarus: 48 H4 7 -1 2
Predator: 48 H2D3 7 -1 3
Heavy Bolter: 36 H3 5 -1 1
I could see something like the Reaper for the Helverin. I'm imagining something stronger than a Heavy Bolter and regular Autocannon but weeker than the Predator. That puts it right at the Reaper, though maybe slightly lower in strength.
And that would make me happy.
Reapers are equivalent in strength to autocannons, not stronger. Double shots but half damage.
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Post by: Drudge Dreadnought
Reapers are trash unfortunately. St7 AP -1 and D1 is just not a useful stat line, even with 4 shots. They'd have to be super cheap to be worthwhile. If they are d2 then it's solid.
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Post by: Binabik15
The madmen did it and brought back Renegade?! Aww yiss, but now I have to put my money where my mouth is and split one with my brother.
The combination of a Knight torso on the Lord of Skulls to make a giant pus factory with "Melta" slime gun or something like that is very tempting though. Would be a huge €€€ investment as well as time... and what would I do with a Khytan engine from the leftovers, my truescale WEs are only five man strong.
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Post by: gungo
PiñaColada wrote: BrookM wrote:What needs to be fixed about the Reaper and Thunderstrike gauntlet?
Personally, both the chassis and most of the weapons going down in point cost is already a massive fix for the army.
They're okay. But so much worse than just more guns. The feet are actually pretty good so the justification for close combat weapons isn't really there IMO
Knights should have 6 attacks and the feet should be 2x number of attacks. So you get as many feet attacks but the weapons get substantially better
Guantlet should do an additional 1d3 mortal wounds if it does any damage representing picking the model up and slamming it in place rather then tossing it somewhere else when it’s original target dies. This makes the guantlet better then feet in specific cases where mortal wounds are better.
The chainsword should do 3 individual wounds of 2 damage to a unit for each unsuccessful save making it significantly better then feet vs hordes.
In other words 3 melee choices
1 does token d3 mortal wounds
1 does lots of hits less chance to wound but potentially lots of damage
1 does less hits better chance to wound but consistent damage on several models
On GEQ use feet, on TEQ use sword, on vehicles and monstrous use fist.
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Post by: Mandragola
I think the suggestion of giving knights 6 attacks and lettting the feet do 2x that instead of 3x would be best. Right now the feet are as good as or better than other weapons against virtually any target. Crusaders are therefore the best knights by far, and the gap will probably grow if guns get cheaper. CCWs need to be basically free now to compete at all.
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Post by: gungo
Mandragola wrote:I think the suggestion of giving knights 6 attacks and lettting the feet do 2x that instead of 3x would be best. Right now the feet are as good as or better than other weapons against virtually any target. Crusaders are therefore the best knights by far, and the gap will probably grow if guns get cheaper. CCWs need to be basically free now to compete at all.
that works but I still think the guantlet should do 1d3 mortal wounds to vehicles and monstrous creatures.
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Post by: ph34r
Will Knights in this book be Questor Imperialis or Questor Mechanicus or both/either?
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Post by: djones520
 ph34r wrote:Will Knights in this book be Questor Imperialis or Questor Mechanicus or both/either?
They've listed Mechanicus, and Questor houses, so I'd say it's safe to say both.
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Post by: StarHunter25
So anyone else thinking that the Lancer has become an awesome warlord choice? An imperial knight with a 3++ invuln that becomes a 2++ in melee.
Ha. Haha. HAHAHAHHAHAHAH.
<edit>
So, if this is indeed possible (WLT + rotate), Will Knight Lancer warlords be the new Most Annoying Bullgack? With the gigantic pile of rules it has to start with, in addition to however else the knight titan rule changes in the codex, I'm struggling to think of a way to fight this thing. 27 wounds protected by a 3/2++ with autosimulacra is kinda crazy. If there is some sort of regen lost wounds relic or something that grants a real FNP, basically the only thing I can think of off hand that can somewhat efficiently kill it is Magnus, who will likely get rekt due to the knight being faster and hitting like several angry freight trains. Combined with the alleged Mortan house trait, this thing could be the bad kind of monster. Like, Superfriends Thunderwolf Deathstar kind of monster.
<edit 2>
So thing two that can kinda hurt him. Exalted Champion with murder sword with MoK, who is near a Black Legion warlord. Fury of khorne and hope for a crapload of 5+ for exploding dice. Even then, with perfect rolls (everything hit with a 5+ on the roll) you are doing 16 mortal wounds to it. More likely is, you do 5-6, then the Knight player interrupts and splats the EC with a single hit.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Imagine if Terryn gets an advance and charge strat, too. That thing is flying across the table.
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Post by: Lord Borak
If there is a relic that boosts the Ion shield to 4+ then that's awesome. I'm not sure it will affect the Lancer though because it doesn't have an Ion shield........... It has an Ion gauntlet shield. :/ I guess we'll see soon enough in either case.
Slightly confused with that Cawl comment making the Dominus' Plasma weapon awesome though.
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Post by: StarHunter25
It's not a relic, its a warlord trait that just adds 1 to their invulnerable save. And the stratagem just says "pick a knight that has been targeted, improve its invuln by 1".
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Post by: changemod
StarHunter25 wrote:So anyone else thinking that the Lancer has become an awesome warlord choice? An imperial knight with a 3++ invuln that becomes a 2++ in melee.
Ha. Haha. HAHAHAHHAHAHAH.
<edit>
So, if this is indeed possible ( WLT + rotate), Will Knight Lancer warlords be the new Most Annoying Bullgack? With the gigantic pile of rules it has to start with, in addition to however else the knight titan rule changes in the codex, I'm struggling to think of a way to fight this thing. 27 wounds protected by a 3/2++ with autosimulacra is kinda crazy. If there is some sort of regen lost wounds relic or something that grants a real FNP, basically the only thing I can think of off hand that can somewhat efficiently kill it is Magnus, who will likely get rekt due to the knight being faster and hitting like several angry freight trains. Combined with the alleged Mortan house trait, this thing could be the bad kind of monster. Like, Superfriends Thunderwolf Deathstar kind of monster.
<edit 2>
So thing two that can kinda hurt him. Exalted Champion with murder sword with MoK, who is near a Black Legion warlord. Fury of khorne and hope for a crapload of 5+ for exploding dice. Even then, with perfect rolls (everything hit with a 5+ on the roll) you are doing 16 mortal wounds to it. More likely is, you do 5-6, then the Knight player interrupts and splats the EC with a single hit.
Even if it turns out to be allowed, a knight lancer isn’t going to be magically useful just because it has a 2++, merely unkillable.
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Post by: StarHunter25
I agree. However, it is the ultimate Distraction Carnifex. Ignore it and it'll kill your big important stuff and/or backfield units. Target it and it'll just shrug off your attacks then regenerate. On top of the speed it gets.
If the +1 invuln warlord trait isn't house specific, Terryn Lancers will be insane. 3d6 dropping the lowest for advance and charge. If they also get an advance + charge stratagem idk if there is anything to stop them from hitting your backfield. 14" + 6d6 (18-38") drop the two lowest is an insane threat range. How many things that swing at s14 ap-4 dam6 can reliably move 34" a turn? Even without advance + charge, an average 23" charge threat turn 1 is incredible.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
It's not insane it's just neat. For 480 points having a giant mech kick itself across the table and take out a high value target every turn while refusing to die is pretty neat.
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Post by: ph34r
 djones520 wrote: ph34r wrote:Will Knights in this book be Questor Imperialis or Questor Mechanicus or both/either?
They've listed Mechanicus, and Questor houses, so I'd say it's safe to say both.
Do you think we will encounter problems fielding a Questoris Styrix or Questoris Magaera given that they have no choice and are only Questor Imperialis?
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Post by: Audustum
StarHunter25 wrote:I agree. However, it is the ultimate Distraction Carnifex. Ignore it and it'll kill your big important stuff and/or backfield units. Target it and it'll just shrug off your attacks then regenerate. On top of the speed it gets.
If the +1 invuln warlord trait isn't house specific, Terryn Lancers will be insane. 3d6 dropping the lowest for advance and charge. If they also get an advance + charge stratagem idk if there is anything to stop them from hitting your backfield. 14" + 6d6 (18-38") drop the two lowest is an insane threat range. How many things that swing at s14 ap-4 dam6 can reliably move 34" a turn? Even without advance + charge, an average 23" charge threat turn 1 is incredible.
No matter your max charge distance, you can't declare charges over 12" away I believe.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
He's saying that's the average range it will move and charge in a single turn.
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Post by: Audustum
Cephalobeard wrote:He's saying that's the average range it will move and charge in a single turn.
Riiiiight, but it can't ACTUALLY charge that average because charge distance is capped at 12" if you can't declare on things more than 12" away. So 14" move + 12" Charge.
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Post by: Eldarain
The premise above is that there is an advance and charge strat.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Audustum wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:He's saying that's the average range it will move and charge in a single turn.
Riiiiight, but it can't ACTUALLY charge that average because charge distance is capped at 12" if you can't declare on things more than 12" away. So 14" move + 12" Charge.
I think you're misunderstanding.
The model has a 14 inch move.
It advances 3d6, averaging about 9.
It moves a total of 23.
Now it can charge something up to 12, with an average roll of around 5-7.
It has an average threat range of a reliable high twenty low thirty inch success rate for move and charge.
IF, in the context of this discussion, it can advance and charge. It's hypothetical.
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Post by: drazz
I’m honestly thinking/ hoping there will be a strat for a knight to come in via a different board edge.
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Post by: luke1705
drazz wrote:I’m honestly thinking/ hoping there will be a way to play a Chaos knight with double flamer weapons.
There you go. Fixed it for you
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Post by: tneva82
drazz wrote:I’m honestly thinking/ hoping there will be a strat for a knight to come in via a different board edge.
I'm not. they are so expensive I want them from T1 shooting. By turn 3-4 game is generally over anyway
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Post by: ph34r
I'm honestly expecting Chaos Knights to get absolutely nothing from this codex, perhaps not even a FAQ to lower their price. Ok that would really suck hopefully any hull reductions they will get also. Definitely don't think they will get castellans and armigers.
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Post by: Audustum
Cephalobeard wrote:Audustum wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:He's saying that's the average range it will move and charge in a single turn.
Riiiiight, but it can't ACTUALLY charge that average because charge distance is capped at 12" if you can't declare on things more than 12" away. So 14" move + 12" Charge.
I think you're misunderstanding.
The model has a 14 inch move.
It advances 3d6, averaging about 9.
It moves a total of 23.
Now it can charge something up to 12, with an average roll of around 5-7.
It has an average threat range of a reliable high twenty low thirty inch success rate for move and charge.
IF, in the context of this discussion, it can advance and charge. It's hypothetical.
There we go. Your first reply to me just said move + charge so I discounted advancing.
Still, I doubt we get the ability to Advance and Charge. GW seems to want to save that for fleet-footed archtypes.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
ph34r wrote:I'm honestly expecting Chaos Knights to get absolutely nothing from this codex, perhaps not even a FAQ to lower their price. Ok that would really suck hopefully any hull reductions they will get also. Definitely don't think they will get castellans and armigers.
We have been aware of the fact that Chaos Knights and Renegade Knights will be getting absolutely nothing for a while now. Perhaps they will get a PDF like what has come out for the Primaris Space Marines that allowed their use in the armies that didn't have codexes yet (currently only Space Wolves actually need it). That could give points values for those Knights for Renegade or Chaos Knights to be used with their packed in rules.
I would send GW a message on Facebook in the mean time.
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Post by: mrhappyface
To be honest, I don't know why they didn't allow Chaos players to use the new Knight Codex by just replacing keywords; all it does is limit the number of sales of the Codex by only offering the content to one of the two factions that could have used it. That is unless GW plan on releasing a Renegade Knights Codex.
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Post by: BrookM
On Facebook they mentioned that Renegade Knights would receive an update somewhere down the road.
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Post by: tneva82
And no doubt eventually they will get codex as well. Why sell one codex when you can sell two and some players will probably get both!
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Post by: Lord Borak
StarHunter25 wrote:It's not a relic, its a warlord trait that just adds 1 to their invulnerable save. And the stratagem just says "pick a knight that has been targeted, improve its invuln by 1".
Oh wow, I thought it was a relic. Fair play then!! That's not very friendly at all. It will also make your Warlord next to impossible to kill, which is always handy 
Looks like I'll need to pack some of those Invulnerable ignoring missiles just in case
In regards to the comment about Cawl boosting the Plasma Weapons stats with a Relic: I'm not familiar with Mechanicum so is that actually possible?
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Post by: tneva82
 Lord Borak wrote:
In regards to the comment about Cawl boosting the Plasma Weapons stats with a Relic: I'm not familiar with Mechanicum so is that actually possible?
Well...That would seem to be new relic in the codex so mechanicum codex is irrelevant. Doubtful any rule in knight codex requires model from other codex being included.
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Post by: Crazyterran
That or the relic is an upgraded plasma weapon a la Hellblasters gifted to the Knightly Hosts, and doesnt require Cawl. He just made it.
C'mon guys!
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Post by: tneva82
 Crazyterran wrote:That or the relic is an upgraded plasma weapon a la Hellblasters gifted to the Knightly Hosts, and doesnt require Cawl. He just made it.
C'mon guys!
Um precisely my point. Relic specific to the knight codex. Cawl being on fluff side. Either way highly unlikely it requires Cawl model to be fielded on army. Is there ANY such cross codex requirement in 40k?
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Post by: Vector Strike
Where did you guys see any info on relics and warlord traits?
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Post by: Cephalobeard
That link is essentially BOLS copy and pasting the information someone posted here a few pages ago.
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Post by: aracersss
so any german present?
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Post by: BrookM
That's German, not Dutch. 
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Post by: Tastyfish
Always a chance they're saving chaos knights for the Slaanesh book whenever that is. They were the chaos knights in Epic
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Post by: Cephalobeard
uh.
Appears to say:
In any turn in which you've attacked, been attacked or performed a Heroic intervention you can reroll hits. Additionally, you can reroll hits against titanic units in the fight phase.
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Post by: Stus67
Something something can heroically intervene as if it were a character something something I don't actually speak german
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Post by: Geifer
Cephalobeard wrote:uh.
Appears to say:
In any turn in which you've attacked, been attacked or performed a Heroic intervention you can reroll hits. Additionally, you can reroll hits against titanic units in the fight phase.
Yep.
Well, assault, not attack, but you know.
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Post by: Astmeister
Cephalobeard got it right.
It seems to be an error in the FB picture that the name of the tradition is again "Firestorm protocols".
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Post by: Cephalobeard
 Geifer wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:uh.
Appears to say:
In any turn in which you've attacked, been attacked or performed a Heroic intervention you can reroll hits. Additionally, you can reroll hits against titanic units in the fight phase.
Yep.
Well, assault, not attack, but you know.
0% German, typed it into google translate and did my best. Lol
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Post by: Geifer
Cephalobeard wrote: Geifer wrote: Cephalobeard wrote:uh.
Appears to say:
In any turn in which you've attacked, been attacked or performed a Heroic intervention you can reroll hits. Additionally, you can reroll hits against titanic units in the fight phase.
Yep.
Well, assault, not attack, but you know.
0% German, typed it into google translate and did my best. Lol
Looks like Google is getting smarter. Used to be a time you could count on Google Translate for easy laughs. Next thing you know they'll build robots and gain access to nuclear launch codes.
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Post by: Silentz
Interesting to hear the Long War podcast... discussing the new combat gauge thing and Rob Baer said "spoiler alert - there's a way for knights to interact in melee with units in ruins so it's more useful than you think".
OoooOOOOooooOOO
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Post by: gendoikari87
 Silentz wrote:Interesting to hear the Long War podcast... discussing the new combat gauge thing and Rob Baer said "spoiler alert - there's a way for knights to interact in melee with units in ruins so it's more useful than you think".
OoooOOOOooooOOO
this has always been the case, just blow up the ruin. You know what they say a bullet has your name on it, a grenade is addressed to whom it may concern, but a 20 ton power fist is just marked: public announcement
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Post by: Silentz
Just in case anyone doesn't know you are joking - there are no rules to blow up scenery pieces in 40k.
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Post by: xttz
ph34r wrote:I'm honestly expecting Chaos Knights to get absolutely nothing from this codex, perhaps not even a FAQ to lower their price. Ok that would really suck hopefully any hull reductions they will get also. Definitely don't think they will get castellans and armigers.
Why would they get anything from an Imperial codex? Did CSM or Deathguard get any changes when each new loyalist marine codex came out?
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Post by: gendoikari87
Silentz wrote:Just in case anyone doesn't know you are joking - there are no rules to blow up scenery pieces in 40k.
correct. At least not by default. Rules exist as extra rules however. And since the ruling on ruins I’ve held that tournaments and match play should include these
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Post by: Chopstick
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Post by: ph34r
Cephalobeard wrote: BrookM wrote:I wonder if Imperial Knights: Renegade will also have rules for the Valiant. It already has rules for most other walking super-heavies out there.
I'm not so secretly hoping Renegades retain the ability to double down on primary weapons, so I can rock a double flamer triple auto cannon Dominus into battle.
For those pointing out that there is no reason this book will have chaos stuff just as I said, this is the post I was aimed at.
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Post by: Leo_the_Rat
Has anyone noticed a release date for Renegades? If I want it I need to budget appropriately.
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Post by: BrookM
Leo_the_Rat wrote:Has anyone noticed a release date for Renegades? If I want it I need to budget appropriately.
It should be up for pre-order this weekend.
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Post by: gendoikari87
Cmon gw I want more armiger info!
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Post by: Daedalus81
Depressingly?
Adamantium Knight and a 4++...holy shiiiiiiiiiii...
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Post by: changemod
Basic units are the foundation, I can worry about the glittery decorations on top later.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Now. If there is a relic that gives your Knight a better save, hello invincible Knight!
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Post by: gendoikari87
what’s hilarious is that 4++ is a warlord trait any of them can take (except armigers I’m assuming) and there’s that relic so you can go 3++,2++ (with rotate) or two 4++ knights with one getting a 3++ each turn
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Post by: Buckybits
BrookM wrote:Leo_the_Rat wrote:Has anyone noticed a release date for Renegades? If I want it I need to budget appropriately.
It should be up for pre-order this weekend.
It is. My friend's store put up a pre-order thing Wednesday with discounts for reserving.
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Post by: Justyn
Adamantium Knight and a 4++...holy shiiiiiiiiiii...
How are you planning on getting two warlord traits, much less on the same model.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Justyn wrote:Adamantium Knight and a 4++...holy shiiiiiiiiiii...
How are you planning on getting two warlord traits, much less on the same model.
Dominus class Knights already have a 4++ allegedly. There is allegedly also a relic that gives +1 to Invulnerable Saves. So it can be done.
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Post by: Justyn
Sounds more like wishlisting to me. I'd take a large scoop of salt with that.
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Post by: gendoikari87
Justyn wrote:Sounds more like wishlisting to me. I'd take a large scoop of salt with that.
nope, the relic is called sanctuary. It’s from the old knights codex
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Post by: Platuan4th
casvalremdeikun wrote:Justyn wrote:Adamantium Knight and a 4++...holy shiiiiiiiiiii...
How are you planning on getting two warlord traits, much less on the same model.
Dominus class Knights already have a 4++ allegedly. There is allegedly also a relic that gives +1 to Invulnerable Saves. So it can be done.
Pretty sure this article puts that rumor to rest. They specifically mention putting Ion Bulwark on a Valiant, which would be useless if a Valiant already has a 4++.
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Post by: Stus67
The last paragraph in that post makes it sound like multiple freeblades can be warlords, but I think they just worded it weird and meant any one freeblade can be a warlord.
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Post by: ph34r
casvalremdeikun wrote:Justyn wrote:Adamantium Knight and a 4++...holy shiiiiiiiiiii...
How are you planning on getting two warlord traits, much less on the same model.
Dominus class Knights already have a 4++ allegedly. There is allegedly also a relic that gives +1 to Invulnerable Saves. So it can be done.
These guys also have 4++:, by default
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Post by: aracersss
so if common knights are Questoris class & heavy knights are Dominus class, what class are armiger?
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 Platuan4th wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:Justyn wrote:Adamantium Knight and a 4++...holy shiiiiiiiiiii...
How are you planning on getting two warlord traits, much less on the same model.
Dominus class Knights already have a 4++ allegedly. There is allegedly also a relic that gives +1 to Invulnerable Saves. So it can be done.
Pretty sure this article puts that rumor to rest. They specifically mention putting Ion Bulwark on a Valiant, which would be useless if a Valiant already has a 4++.
On one hand, you are probably right. On the other hand, it is GW...
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Post by: BrookM
Great preview, really looking forward to the full Freeblade rules.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Agreed on looking forward to Freeblade rules. Ever since it was mentioned I've grown to be in love with the Lancer idea.
Curious what additional information we're going to get in regards to Stratagem/Household rules.
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Post by: gendoikari87
Utilizing rotate ion shields for a 3++ at bs 4 you need 63 lascannon shots to down a knight
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Post by: LunarSol
I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
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Post by: changemod
 LunarSol wrote:I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
People will minmax the crap out of freeblades the moment their full rules are leaked on Friday night. You’ll get people suggesting monobulld freeblades for different knight patterns within the hour.
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Post by: drazz
 aracersss wrote:so if common knights are Questoris class & heavy knights are Dominus class, what class are armiger?
Armiger class.
Warglaive and Helverin are the sub-classes. Automatically Appended Next Post: changemod wrote: LunarSol wrote:I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
People will minmax the crap out of freeblades the moment their full rules are leaked on Friday night. You’ll get people suggesting monobulld freeblades for different knight patterns within the hour.
Definitely.
A SuperHeavy detachment from a Household with a single Freeblade on the side. Yeah, I can see that.
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Post by: Justyn
These guys also have 4++:, by default
The Warlord trait does not improve Invulnerable saves, it confers a 4++ vs shooting. Even if there is a Artifact that does improve Invulnerable saves it probably works the same way, conferring a 4++ rather than improving an existing save.
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Post by: GoatboyBeta
FW should just nick some of the alternate weapon designs from the Freeblade game to use as relics.
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Post by: ph34r
Justyn wrote:These guys also have 4++:, by default
The Warlord trait does not improve Invulnerable saves, it confers a 4++ vs shooting. Even if there is a Artifact that does improve Invulnerable saves it probably works the same way, conferring a 4++ rather than improving an existing save.
That is good to keep in mind.
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Post by: Galas
I'm totally gonna buy a normal Knight to go with my Armiger, make him a Freeblade and call the duo Don Quixote and Sancho.
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Post by: cuda1179
If you can give Warlord Traits or Relics to an Armiger, that could be interesting. An Armiger that can only be wounded on a 4+ would be good for a fast-moving harassment unit. That and I think they'd get more mileage out of it than a larger knight.
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Post by: Justyn
I wonder if you can have Freeblade Armigers. Having a bunch of crazy Freeblade Armigers running around with different abilities and drawbacks would be fun.
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Post by: BrookM
IIRC the fluff blurb found in Forgebane mentions that Armigers will join their masters, even when they become Freeblades.
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Post by: LunarSol
changemod wrote: LunarSol wrote:I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
People will minmax the crap out of freeblades the moment their full rules are leaked on Friday night. You’ll get people suggesting monobulld freeblades for different knight patterns within the hour.
Two negatives for a positive seems way too debilitating to me. I guess it depends on how exactly the Ld roll works with multiple negatives, but both the must charge and BS 6+ seems really debilitating and if the others are similar seem far too likely to lose you a game.
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Post by: Justyn
IIRC the fluff blurb found in Forgebane mentions that Armigers will join their masters, even when they become Freeblades.
Cool! I didn't get Forgebane so didn't manage to read any of the fluff in it.
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Post by: tneva82
LunarSol wrote:changemod wrote: LunarSol wrote:I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
People will minmax the crap out of freeblades the moment their full rules are leaked on Friday night. You’ll get people suggesting monobulld freeblades for different knight patterns within the hour.
Two negatives for a positive seems way too debilitating to me. I guess it depends on how exactly the Ld roll works with multiple negatives, but both the must charge and BS 6+ seems really debilitating and if the others are similar seem far too likely to lose you a game.
Well you could roll for 1 negative.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
I'd call rolling and getting two random useless bonuses about as bad as two negatives.
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Post by: drazz
Did Skyshield just become my good friend? Heavy 6 and +1 rolls against Fliers? Like, Demon Princes, Flyrants, Shield Captians on bikes, and nearly everything else Hero-Hammer?
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Post by: LunarSol
tneva82 wrote: LunarSol wrote:changemod wrote: LunarSol wrote:I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
People will minmax the crap out of freeblades the moment their full rules are leaked on Friday night. You’ll get people suggesting monobulld freeblades for different knight patterns within the hour.
Two negatives for a positive seems way too debilitating to me. I guess it depends on how exactly the Ld roll works with multiple negatives, but both the must charge and BS 6+ seems really debilitating and if the others are similar seem far too likely to lose you a game.
Well you could roll for 1 negative.
Yeah, I'm just not sure how bad the others are. The 6+ one is bad enough I'm not sure you can risk the roll.
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Post by: tneva82
Cephalobeard wrote:I'd call rolling and getting two random useless bonuses about as bad as two negatives.
Is it roll for both or roll where you want? Pick up benefit, roll for drawback.
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Post by: BrookM
Pick one benefit, roll for two drawbacks.
Roll two benefits, pick one drawback.
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Post by: drazz
If i;m ready it correctly, its:
Benefits: Pick 1 or roll 2
Drawback: Pick 2 or roll 1
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Post by: LunarSol
drazz wrote:If i;m ready it correctly, its:
Benefits: Pick 1 or roll 2
Drawback: Pick 2 or roll 1
That's how I read it.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
LunarSol wrote: drazz wrote:If i;m ready it correctly, its:
Benefits: Pick 1 or roll 2
Drawback: Pick 2 or roll 1
That's how I read it.
that's how I'm reading it. And from the looks of it the negatives are all roughly the same in terms of suck so I'd rather roll for it and pick a good benefit.
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Post by: Justyn
Did Skyshield just become my good friend? Heavy 6 and +1 rolls against Fliers? Like, Demon Princes, Flyrants, Shield Captians on bikes, and nearly everything else Hero-Hammer?
Yeah, I also thought that was really good. I suspect there will be some tough choices to make when it comes to artifacts.
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Post by: Slayer-Fan123
BrookM wrote:Pick one benefit, roll for two drawbacks.
Roll two benefits, pick one drawback.
As long as the benefits are pretty generic and universal, I can't really really see an issue with just rolling for them. A melee Knight will probably just roll for two drawbacks based on that reveal, but we obviously need to see the rest.
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Post by: Irbis
 Galas wrote:I'm totally gonna buy a normal Knight to go with my Armiger, make him a Freeblade and call the duo Don Quixote and Sancho.
Only if you give them Dapple the brave Onager Dunecrawler for company 
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Post by: gungo
The way current Gw works I think it’s roll for 2 or pick 1 benefit and pick two or roll one for detriment in any combination.
Unless there is an obvious powerful benefit I’ll probably roll for 2 benefits and roll for 1 detriment.
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Post by: Wulfey
The benefits and detriments are going to be super annoying to remember and execute in a tournament without some cards or having them written down. They better be simple.
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Post by: Neronoxx
Wulfey wrote:The benefits and detriments are going to be super annoying to remember and execute in a tournament without some cards or having them written down. They better be simple.
It really won't be.
Knights are stupid easy to play, and have very little rules to keep track of it it's all your bringing.
If your allying in a single freeblade, then it's even easier.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
And I very much suspect there’ll be cards for that,
Will make Knights interesting in a tournament, given the detriments have no option to pick. Unless of course for sake of expedience, all Knight players, at the beginning, make the roll in front of a Judge, and keep them for the event.
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Post by: BrookM
The Freeblade perks could be part of the datacard pack for all we know.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Now I really, really want to do a Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven type Scenario.
7 Knight Freeblades, all doubling rolling on the charts vs equivalent points of whatever.
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Post by: Platuan4th
BrookM wrote:The Freeblade perks could be part of the datacard pack for all we know.
Maybe, but I doubt it since similar ability tables didn't make it into other Datacard sets.
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Post by: BrookM
Platuan4th wrote: BrookM wrote:The Freeblade perks could be part of the datacard pack for all we know.
Maybe, but I doubt it since similar ability tables didn't make it into other Datacard sets.
Ah, you probably missed it, but there will be two packs:
edit.
And my bad for using the wrong description there. Derp!
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Post by: Crazyterran
So, either the banner for Obsec on a Knight or the gatling gun for an average of an extra two hits per turn... so far.
Since the Crusader is probably going to be the best standard chassis again, don't see how you can go wrong with Endless Fury so far.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Statistically two extra hits a turn.
As a Necron player, let me tell you exploding 6’s show up with alarming regularity!
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Post by: cuda1179
I have normally avoided the Gauntlet as trash (I hate -1 to hit). However, that relic Gauntlet seems to omit that penalty. I might be tempted by that one.
The Relic Gatling cannon also has my interest.
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Post by: Mandragola
The relic fist is interesting. I’m not sure if it’s good, yet.
It doesn’t seem to have a penalty to hit and it does 8 damage. That’s quite tasty against big targets. If 2 wounds get through it kills a land raider-equivalent. 3 and it kills a knight.
I’m not saying it’s great. 8 wounds is obviously massive overkill, most of the time, and no different to 6 most of the rest of the time. Looks fun though.
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Post by: djones520
LunarSol wrote:changemod wrote: LunarSol wrote:I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
People will minmax the crap out of freeblades the moment their full rules are leaked on Friday night. You’ll get people suggesting monobulld freeblades for different knight patterns within the hour.
Two negatives for a positive seems way too debilitating to me. I guess it depends on how exactly the Ld roll works with multiple negatives, but both the must charge and BS 6+ seems really debilitating and if the others are similar seem far too likely to lose you a game.
2 random negatives for a picked positive. Or 1 picked negative for 2 random positives.
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Post by: Iracundus
djones520 wrote: LunarSol wrote:changemod wrote: LunarSol wrote:I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
People will minmax the crap out of freeblades the moment their full rules are leaked on Friday night. You’ll get people suggesting monobulld freeblades for different knight patterns within the hour.
Two negatives for a positive seems way too debilitating to me. I guess it depends on how exactly the Ld roll works with multiple negatives, but both the must charge and BS 6+ seems really debilitating and if the others are similar seem far too likely to lose you a game.
2 random negatives for a picked positive. Or 1 picked negative for 2 random positives.
That is not right. It is one picked positive or two random positives, and one random negative or two picked negatives. You pay for the ability to choose.
So if you want more positives than negatives you have to go 2 random positives for one random negative.
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Post by: Ssgt Carl
djones520 wrote: LunarSol wrote:changemod wrote: LunarSol wrote:I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
People will minmax the crap out of freeblades the moment their full rules are leaked on Friday night. You’ll get people suggesting monobulld freeblades for different knight patterns within the hour.
Two negatives for a positive seems way too debilitating to me. I guess it depends on how exactly the Ld roll works with multiple negatives, but both the must charge and BS 6+ seems really debilitating and if the others are similar seem far too likely to lose you a game.
2 random negatives for a picked positive. Or 1 picked negative for 2 random positives.
It looks to me like the positives and negatives are chosen separately meaning:
I can roll for two or pick one positive
THEN
I can roll for one or pick two negatives
SO I can have:
1&1, 2&1, 1&2, or 2&2
Note that the example in the article is a freeblade with 2&2
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Post by: Audustum
 Ssgt Carl wrote: djones520 wrote: LunarSol wrote:changemod wrote: LunarSol wrote:I cannot fathom the Freeblade being worth it, but there's some silly fun to be had there I suppose.
People will minmax the crap out of freeblades the moment their full rules are leaked on Friday night. You’ll get people suggesting monobulld freeblades for different knight patterns within the hour.
Two negatives for a positive seems way too debilitating to me. I guess it depends on how exactly the Ld roll works with multiple negatives, but both the must charge and BS 6+ seems really debilitating and if the others are similar seem far too likely to lose you a game.
2 random negatives for a picked positive. Or 1 picked negative for 2 random positives.
It looks to me like the positives and negatives are chosen separately meaning:
I can roll for two or pick one positive
THEN
I can roll for one or pick two negatives
SO I can have:
1&1, 2&1, 1&2, or 2&2
Note that the example in the article is a freeblade with 2&2
This was my interpretation as well.
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Post by: Silentz
Also note that it says the negatives only come into effect if you fail a leadership test.
Which is what... roll 8 or less on 2d6?
Suddenly the trait with +1 leadership makes more sense...
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Post by: hodorhodorhodorhodor
The community article says rolling for both is an option which suggests that choosing both is also an option. They are probably chosen or rolled separately from each other. There will probably need to be more clarity in the full rules/faq to see if there is any order of operations or you can choose/roll in any order/simultaneously.
"For MAXIMUM GALLANTRY, throw caution to the wind and roll on both tables for the best results – while you’ll lose out on choice, the potential rewards are well worth it.
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Post by: gungo
Knight Freeblade Quality:
Reroll 1’s to hit against squads of 10 or more
Reroll 1’s against warlord, and obsec
Heroic Intervention of 6″
One reroll per round
Peerless Warrior
Indomitable
Knight Freeblade Burdens:
Can not be targeted by strats
Reroll 6’s to hit
Can only target the closest unit with shooting
Driven to Slaughter
Impetuous Nature
A freeblade gallant can be beastly with 2 chosen detriments that hurt shooting but who cares what your stubber hits. You could take 2 random benefits and a relic chainsword or guantlet and be pretty good for a cheap knight. I’d probably just choose reroll he warlord and obj secured for a cheap gallant freeblade. He would be my obj grabbing melee bot.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
Source?
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Post by: Slayer-Fan123
gungo wrote:Knight Freeblade Quality:
Reroll 1’s to hit against squads of 10 or more
Reroll 1’s against warlord, and obsec
Heroic Intervention of 6″
One reroll per round
Peerless Warrior
Indomitable
Knight Freeblade Burdens:
Can not be targeted by strats
Reroll 6’s to hit
Can only target the closest unit with shooting
Driven to Slaughter
Impetuous Nature
A freeblade gallant can be beastly with 2 chosen detriments that hurt shooting but who cares what your stubber hits. You could take 2 random benefits and a relic chainsword or guantlet and be pretty good for a cheap knight. I’d probably just choose reroll he warlord and obj secured for a cheap gallant freeblade. He would be my obj grabbing melee bot.
Yeah I'm basically okay with all the Qualities besides the Heroic Intervention one. Then just choose the "Shoot at the closest target" detriment.
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Post by: gungo
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2018/05/building-your-freeblade-rules-being.html?m=1
You got to choose 2 or roll 1. Some detriments are crippling(can’t be targeted by strats or reroll 6s). However on gallant choose shoot closet target and the no fallback bs6 one. Even if you fail leadership your forced to shoot a stubber at closet target at bs6 who cares.
However the ability to add a cheap melee gallant that is obj secured and rerolls vs warlords w a relic melee weapon is likely worth it to get as many obj secured knights on the table as possible and get the most use out of the melee relics.
You want to say to load up on CP though and outside of an AM detachment battalion with commander point farm. I don’t know how else your going to load up on CP unless you spam 3 super heavy detachments w Armigers.
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Post by: Daedalus81
gungo wrote: I don’t know how else your going to load up on CP unless you spam 3 super heavy detachments w Armigers.
Rule of 3 will prevent that.
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Post by: tneva82
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: BrookM wrote:Pick one benefit, roll for two drawbacks.
Roll two benefits, pick one drawback.
As long as the benefits are pretty generic and universal, I can't really really see an issue with just rolling for them. A melee Knight will probably just roll for two drawbacks based on that reveal, but we obviously need to see the rest.
No he will roll for 1 drawback. Whole point of rolling is you get more benefits or less drawbacks than when picking. Balance mechanism. You choose what you want, you get less benefits/more drawbacks. Or you leave it to luck and get more benefits/less drawbacks.
Pick one or roll 2 drawbacks would be stupid. Albeit GW makes stupid rules but at least even they weren't THAT stupid. Automatically Appended Next Post: Wulfey wrote:The benefits and detriments are going to be super annoying to remember and execute in a tournament without some cards or having them written down. They better be simple.
That's why I'm betting those WILL be in knight card deck ;-) Automatically Appended Next Post:  Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And I very much suspect there’ll be cards for that,
Will make Knights interesting in a tournament, given the detriments have no option to pick. Unless of course for sake of expedience, all Knight players, at the beginning, make the roll in front of a Judge, and keep them for the event.
You can pick detriments. But then you have to pick 2 of them. If you leave yourself to hands of fate you'll get by 1. And presumably in tournament that would be start of each game so you do it in front of your opponent.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Well, some of the Burdens are downright awful. Could you imagine getting Driven to Slaughter on a Knight Crusader or Knight Castellan? That would be catastrophic.
It is a little curious to me that there are only five Burdens leaked. It would be really cool if a roll of a 6 was that there was no burden. I am sure they forgot to list one though. But a Gallant with Impetuous Nature and can only Target the closest unit wouldn't be too bad. Or even with Driven to Slaughter.
I am curious what Canis Rex will have as Qualities and Burdens. Hopefully nothing too dumb. I like his model a lot.
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Post by: cuda1179
casvalremdeikun wrote:Well, some of the Burdens are downright awful. Could you imagine getting Driven to Slaughter on a Knight Crusader or Knight Castellan? That would be catastrophic.
It is a little curious to me that there are only five Burdens leaked. It would be really cool if a roll of a 6 was that there was no burden. I am sure they forgot to list one though. But a Gallant with Impetuous Nature and can only Target the closest unit wouldn't be too bad. Or even with Driven to Slaughter.
I am curious what Canis Rex will have as Qualities and Burdens. Hopefully nothing too dumb. I like his model a lot.
Who's to say he has either? What if freeblades MAY have traits, but don't have to?
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Post by: Mandragola
Gallants are still pretty dreadful. Not really better in cc than any other knight and no guns. Just as there are detriments that don’t affect them because they have no guns there are also benefits that don’t either.
I think I’d pick impetuous and reroll 6s to hit. That’s really not so bad, given that 2/3 of the attacks will hit anyway. Then roll for 2 benefits. A knight with guns benefits from all of them.
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Post by: Crazyterran
It’s only on a failed leadership test, so even impetuous nature isn’t awful on a Crusader.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
 cuda1179 wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:Well, some of the Burdens are downright awful. Could you imagine getting Driven to Slaughter on a Knight Crusader or Knight Castellan? That would be catastrophic.
It is a little curious to me that there are only five Burdens leaked. It would be really cool if a roll of a 6 was that there was no burden. I am sure they forgot to list one though. But a Gallant with Impetuous Nature and can only Target the closest unit wouldn't be too bad. Or even with Driven to Slaughter.
I am curious what Canis Rex will have as Qualities and Burdens. Hopefully nothing too dumb. I like his model a lot.
Who's to say he has either? What if freeblades MAY have traits, but don't have to?
I would be totally fine with the idea of a Freeblade just being an extra Knight without a Tradition. Though at that point, why not just take the Freeblade as a Knight with a House Tradition. Automatically Appended Next Post: Crazyterran wrote:It’s only on a failed leadership test, so even impetuous nature isn’t awful on a Crusader.
Especially if you have Indomitable. Knights are already Leadership 9.
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Post by: tneva82
casvalremdeikun wrote:Well, some of the Burdens are downright awful. Could you imagine getting Driven to Slaughter on a Knight Crusader or Knight Castellan? That would be catastrophic.
It is a little curious to me that there are only five Burdens leaked. It would be really cool if a roll of a 6 was that there was no burden. I am sure they forgot to list one though. But a Gallant with Impetuous Nature and can only Target the closest unit wouldn't be too bad. Or even with Driven to Slaughter.
I am curious what Canis Rex will have as Qualities and Burdens. Hopefully nothing too dumb. I like his model a lot.
Well depends on how they work. They aren't always on so wouldn't be automatic disaster.
But that's why you can pick yourself 2 if you want to avoid worst of potential harm at the cost of having more of lesser harms.
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Post by: Scott-S6
Reroll 6s could really hurt.
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Post by: mmzero252
Especially if you take that hot new artifact gatling gun. You WANT those sixes.
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Post by: saint_red
Re-rolling 6s is -1/18 chance of hitting (assuming no to hit mods). On a regular Knight this takes you from 66.66% -> 61.11% which is a very small decrease. It would be silly to take the relic gatling cannon with that Burden though.
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Post by: tneva82
saint_red wrote:Re-rolling 6s is -1/18 chance of hitting (assuming no to hit mods). On a regular Knight this takes you from 66.66% -> 61.11% which is a very small decrease. It would be silly to take the relic gatling cannon with that Burden though.
Yeah with that gatling rolling for 1 rather than pick 2 might be risky. Though again it's not automatic happentance.
I'm actually tempted to go for freeblade with my knights for fun. Was thinking either extra charge distance or the double W for degrade but freeblade and rolling for both sounds like fun. In case of multiple knights in detachment is that btw rolls for every knight or same result for all? Or was freeblade even possible for multiple knights?
The inner ork on me is tempting for this gamble
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Post by: mmzero252
I'm tempted to find two burdens that aren't garbage for my knight and then maybe roll for the qualities. I kinda wonder if we'll be allowed to use the Canis Rex gun on other knights.
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Post by: alleus
Well, that's a Renegade box for me.. and a Lancer..... and I need to finish my Atropos. My Porphyrion needs friends!
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
tneva82 wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:Well, some of the Burdens are downright awful. Could you imagine getting Driven to Slaughter on a Knight Crusader or Knight Castellan? That would be catastrophic.
It is a little curious to me that there are only five Burdens leaked. It would be really cool if a roll of a 6 was that there was no burden. I am sure they forgot to list one though. But a Gallant with Impetuous Nature and can only Target the closest unit wouldn't be too bad. Or even with Driven to Slaughter.
I am curious what Canis Rex will have as Qualities and Burdens. Hopefully nothing too dumb. I like his model a lot.
Well depends on how they work. They aren't always on so wouldn't be automatic disaster.
But that's why you can pick yourself 2 if you want to avoid worst of potential harm at the cost of having more of lesser harms.
Yeah, that is true. I keep forgetting that they are only on a failed Leadership check (something that only really happens like 1/9th of the time). I would place money on Canis Rex having Indomitable anyway since it seems fluffy. This makes me a lot less apprehensive about running a Freeblade.
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Post by: gungo
I agree knight bs and ws isn’t that great to begin with and only gets worse with the damage profile rerolling 6s is crippling.
The reason I say gallant is best for a freeblade is because it’s cheap, you take a relic melee and the gallant is much better in melee. Also the ONLY benefit I think taking a freeblade is worth it over knight houses is the obj secured one....which makes the gallant useful since it means you are using the freeblade to move and adavance and charge onto objectives in missions and kill other units near that objective. It’s a cheap roll player and I don’t see any other freeblade benefit worth building around.
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Daedalus81 wrote:gungo wrote: I don’t know how else your going to load up on CP unless you spam 3 super heavy detachments w Armigers.
Rule of 3 will prevent that.
Well 2 datasheets at least so can fill 6 low detachment slots. So 6x armigers at rumored 163 points and 3 knights at 285 base should fit into a triple superheavy detachment army. Is 3 knights and 6 armigers a viable 2k point army I don’t know however it sure is an easy army to transport to the local gaming store for a quick game.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
 alleus wrote:Well, that's a Renegade box for me.. and a Lancer..... and I need to finish my Atropos. My Porphyrion needs friends!
If the Lancer can advance and charge I'm 100% with you on that.
Run him flanked by 2 wardens, move everyone up, or even just jam in some Armigers to roll with him, I dig it.
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Post by: tneva82
gungo wrote: I agree knight bs and ws isn’t that great to begin with and only gets worse with the damage profile rerolling 6s is crippling.
The reason I say gallant is best for a freeblade is because it’s cheap, you take a relic melee and the gallant is much better in melee. Also the ONLY benefit I think taking a freeblade is worth it over knight houses is the obj secured one....which makes the gallant useful since it means you are using the freeblade to move and adavance and charge onto objectives in missions and kill other units near that objective. It’s a cheap roll player and I don’t see any other freeblade benefit worth building around.
Uh in what world we live when 2nd best values aren't that great?
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
I don't know if this was posted yet, but from BoLS (salt...), Canis Rex is as follows:
Canis Rex has the re-roll one’s quality, closest target burden and -1 ld to all enemies within 12″ warlord trait for 450 points.
Not bad. He has the burden that isn't the worst, IMO. And 450 pts is fairly decent. That is 70 pts cheaper than my current Knight.
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Post by: gungo
tneva82 wrote:gungo wrote: I agree knight bs and ws isn’t that great to begin with and only gets worse with the damage profile rerolling 6s is crippling.
The reason I say gallant is best for a freeblade is because it’s cheap, you take a relic melee and the gallant is much better in melee. Also the ONLY benefit I think taking a freeblade is worth it over knight houses is the obj secured one....which makes the gallant useful since it means you are using the freeblade to move and adavance and charge onto objectives in missions and kill other units near that objective. It’s a cheap roll player and I don’t see any other freeblade benefit worth building around.
Uh in what world we live when 2nd best values aren't that great?
when a 3+ rerolls 6s and goes to a 4+ at half wounds. Meaning you have just over 1/3 Chance to hit or 50% chance if you pass a LD check.
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Post by: Astmeister
casvalremdeikun wrote:I don't know if this was posted yet, but from BoLS (salt...), Canis Rex is as follows:
Canis Rex has the re-roll one’s quality, closest target burden and -1 ld to all enemies within 12″ warlord trait for 450 points.
Not bad. He has the burden that isn't the worst, IMO. And 450 pts is fairly decent. That is 70 pts cheaper than my current Knight.
Yes, I hope that Knights drop in points by a minimum of 75 points.
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Post by: gungo
casvalremdeikun wrote:I don't know if this was posted yet, but from BoLS (salt...), Canis Rex is as follows:
Canis Rex has the re-roll one’s quality, closest target burden and -1 ld to all enemies within 12″ warlord trait for 450 points.
Not bad. He has the burden that isn't the worst, IMO. And 450 pts is fairly decent. That is 70 pts cheaper than my current Knight.
Is that reroll 1s vs 10 or more or reroll 1 vs warlords. Because in my opinion the obj secured on warlord is the main reason to take freeblade is you actually want to win games!
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
gungo wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:I don't know if this was posted yet, but from BoLS (salt...), Canis Rex is as follows:
Canis Rex has the re-roll one’s quality, closest target burden and -1 ld to all enemies within 12″ warlord trait for 450 points.
Not bad. He has the burden that isn't the worst, IMO. And 450 pts is fairly decent. That is 70 pts cheaper than my current Knight.
Is that reroll 1s vs 10 or more or reroll 1 vs warlords. Because in my opinion the obj secured on warlord is the main reason to take freeblade is you actually want to win games!
It doesn't say on the rumors. I would love for it to be the rerolls v. Warlords and Ob Sec. 10/10 will use if that was the case.
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Post by: gendoikari87
So if we can go up to two knights pretty much at 4++ against shooting, do we even need the price drops?
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Post by: gungo
gendoikari87 wrote:So if we can go up to two knights pretty much at 4++ against shooting, do we even need the price drops?
I still see the single knight(maybe with 2 cheap armigers) in an Guard army as ideal. Since you get enough CP to use for character hunting missiles or 3++ strat etc and it takes the place as a more efficient baneblade in competitive lists that use them. However knight armies by themselves aren’t that strong even if you spam a triple super heavy detach.
So 6x armigers at rumored 163 points and 3 knights at 285 base should fit into a triple superheavy detachment army. Is 3 knights and 6 armigers a viable 2k point army I don’t know however it sure is an easy army to transport to the local gaming store for a quick game. Two of those knights can be very durable but you are going to have a hard time playing missions and claiming objectives with 9 models. Which is why the obj secured knights that count as 10 models is extremely useful.
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Post by: gendoikari87
Rumor is shooty armiger is 170ish with two predator autocannons.
If true my army will be
Super heavy 1: warden w fist, INv trait and endless fury (Tybalt) , 2 Warglaives, 1 Helverin
Super heavy 2: paladin inv relic (Balthazar), 2 Helverins, 1 Warglaive
Battalion: 2cc, 3x infantry squads
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Post by: Crazyterran
My problem with the dominus is the plasma/volcano is kind of meh, while the flamer is good but by god the harpoon is awful.
Though a freeblade dominus with a pair of missiles on his back re rolling ones to hit vs the warlord seems pretty baller, and something that might scare opponents into acting differently.
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Post by: gungo
gendoikari87 wrote:Rumor is shooty armiger is 170ish with two predator autocannons.
If true my army will be
Super heavy 1: warden w fist, INv trait and endless fury (Tybalt) , 2 Warglaives, 1 Helverin
Super heavy 2: paladin inv relic (Balthazar), 2 Helverins, 1 Warglaive
Battalion: 2cc, 3x infantry squads
Problem at this point is you don’t have the guard command point warlord trait and don’t have the command point relic. Still a decent list just don’t have command point farming.
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Post by: changemod
Harpoon is pretty great when you factor in the meltas make it effectively five shot. It should have no problem performing it’s intended task.
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Post by: gungo
Crazyterran wrote:My problem with the dominus is the plasma/volcano is kind of meh, while the flamer is good but by god the harpoon is awful.
Though a freeblade dominus with a pair of missiles on his back re rolling ones to hit vs the warlord seems pretty baller, and something that might scare opponents into acting differently.
Problem with the big knights is a combination of point cost and neither has ideal weapons combinations to make up for the cost and it becomes better to just take 2 knights. This could change depending on relics that replace weapons.
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Post by: changemod
gungo wrote:gendoikari87 wrote:Rumor is shooty armiger is 170ish with two predator autocannons.
If true my army will be
Super heavy 1: warden w fist, INv trait and endless fury (Tybalt) , 2 Warglaives, 1 Helverin
Super heavy 2: paladin inv relic (Balthazar), 2 Helverins, 1 Warglaive
Battalion: 2cc, 3x infantry squads
Problem at this point is you don’t have the guard command point warlord trait and don’t have the command point relic. Still a decent list just don’t have command point farming.
Only one knight short of a third superheavy detachment. Being genuinely allied to guard in an invested sense is one thing, taking a thirty lasgun battery just to try to minmax seems a little on the crass side whilst also not being very creative even from an optimisation perspective.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
gendoikari87 wrote:Rumor is shooty armiger is 170ish with two predator autocannons.
If true my army will be
Super heavy 1: warden w fist, INv trait and endless fury (Tybalt) , 2 Warglaives, 1 Helverin
Super heavy 2: paladin inv relic (Balthazar), 2 Helverins, 1 Warglaive
Battalion: 2cc, 3x infantry squads
That looks pretty well-balanced. I am looking at the following:
Super Heavy 1: Warden with Fist and Stormspear, 2x Warglaives
Super Heavy 2: Errant with Chainsword and Icarus Autocannon
SH Aux: Canis Rex
Depending on points, I might replace the Errant with a Valiant.
I will likely have another Warden, so I might run two Wardens with Stormspears. I like them as a generalist Knight.
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Post by: gendoikari87
gungo wrote:gendoikari87 wrote:Rumor is shooty armiger is 170ish with two predator autocannons.
If true my army will be
Super heavy 1: warden w fist, INv trait and endless fury (Tybalt) , 2 Warglaives, 1 Helverin
Super heavy 2: paladin inv relic (Balthazar), 2 Helverins, 1 Warglaive
Battalion: 2cc, 3x infantry squads
Problem at this point is you don’t have the guard command point warlord trait and don’t have the command point relic. Still a decent list just don’t have command point farming.
true still 5+3+3+3 is nice. It’s just not brokenly so
Automatically Appended Next Post:
changemod wrote:gungo wrote:gendoikari87 wrote:Rumor is shooty armiger is 170ish with two predator autocannons.
If true my army will be
Super heavy 1: warden w fist, INv trait and endless fury (Tybalt) , 2 Warglaives, 1 Helverin
Super heavy 2: paladin inv relic (Balthazar), 2 Helverins, 1 Warglaive
Battalion: 2cc, 3x infantry squads
Problem at this point is you don’t have the guard command point warlord trait and don’t have the command point relic. Still a decent list just don’t have command point farming.
Only one knight short of a third superheavy detachment. Being genuinely allied to guard in an invested sense is one thing, taking a thirty lasgun battery just to try to minmax seems a little on the crass side whilst also not being very creative even from an optimisation perspective.
oh the guard isn’t there to farm anything they’re a wall of flesh. Screens
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Post by: gungo
gendoikari87 wrote:gungo wrote:gendoikari87 wrote:Rumor is shooty armiger is 170ish with two predator autocannons.
If true my army will be
Super heavy 1: warden w fist, INv trait and endless fury (Tybalt) , 2 Warglaives, 1 Helverin
Super heavy 2: paladin inv relic (Balthazar), 2 Helverins, 1 Warglaive
Battalion: 2cc, 3x infantry squads
Problem at this point is you don’t have the guard command point warlord trait and don’t have the command point relic. Still a decent list just don’t have command point farming.
true still 5+3+3+3 is nice. It’s just not brokenly so
Automatically Appended Next Post:
changemod wrote:gungo wrote:gendoikari87 wrote:Rumor is shooty armiger is 170ish with two predator autocannons.
If true my army will be
Super heavy 1: warden w fist, INv trait and endless fury (Tybalt) , 2 Warglaives, 1 Helverin
Super heavy 2: paladin inv relic (Balthazar), 2 Helverins, 1 Warglaive
Battalion: 2cc, 3x infantry squads
Problem at this point is you don’t have the guard command point warlord trait and don’t have the command point relic. Still a decent list just don’t have command point farming.
Only one knight short of a third superheavy detachment. Being genuinely allied to guard in an invested sense is one thing, taking a thirty lasgun battery just to try to minmax seems a little on the crass side whilst also not being very creative even from an optimisation perspective.
oh the guard isnt there to farm anything they’re a wall of flesh. Screens
ya 14 command points is decent and you still have enough to use the +1 invul strat. Knights are going to chew through CPs. Multiple relics, +1 invul strat, explosion strat, reroll failed saves, etc
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Post by: gendoikari87
Rumor on the long war podcast was you only get command points if everything is the same class, which brings it down to 5+3, I figure I’ll need 3+ invuln strat. So if that’s true I might need those guard for college in addition to being a screen
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Post by: MasterSlowPoke
I can't possibly imagine there's such a rule. Not sure why some guys on a skype call would come up with that.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
If it does exist, that's a really obscure and really specific rule meant just to mess with Knights, and I couldnt begin to understand why it would exist.
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Post by: Asmodai
The first preview article talked about using Armigers to round out Knight detachments. Not sure what purpose that would serve if taking them denied you any CP.
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Post by: drazz
gendoikari87 wrote:Rumor is shooty armiger is 170ish with two predator autocannons.
If true my army will be
Super heavy 1: warden w fist, INv trait and endless fury (Tybalt) , 2 Warglaives, 1 Helverin
Super heavy 2: paladin inv relic (Balthazar), 2 Helverins, 1 Warglaive
Battalion: 2cc, 3x infantry squads
Two Preditor Autocannons? Shooting at the same target nets:
2D3 +2D3 (average 8) shots at strength 7 and 3 damage. AP is weak, but damn that's a lot of dakka if true.
So, which house allowed Heavy weapons to be fired as Assault?
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Post by: BrookM
Watching the stream, so far nothing really new or earth shattering.
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Post by: Cephalobeard
I look forward to updates!
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Post by: changemod
BrookM wrote:Watching the stream, so far nothing really new or earth shattering.
Well, only been the lore segment so far.
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Post by: gendoikari87
Cmon gw want more armiger info
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Post by: BrookM
Gallant +1 A, +1 WS
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Post by: Stus67
Knight Gallant has an extra attack and an extra WS making it hit on 2s
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Post by: BrookM
Point reductions confirmed.
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Post by: Stus67
rip late
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Post by: BrookM
Avenger down from 95 to 75
Reaper is now S+6
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Thermal Cannon is now officially heavy D6 as with the AdMech codex.
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Datasheet cards: same as AoS
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Datasheet cards also includes tokens for wounds and keeping track of certain characteristics when you take damage.
Certain warlord traits are included as well to keep track of.
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You need to have at least three big Knights (Questoris or Dominus) to get your CP's in a Super-heavy detachment.
 XT-1984 wrote:You still get your CPs with Armigers, the rule is that you cannot make one knight a Character unless you have 3 big Knights in a detachment.
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Post by: changemod
Armigers can’t be characters, because what is fun?
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Post by: BrookM
Terryn warlord trait: re-roll failed charges
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Terryn strategem: Glory and Honour (3CP) - it can fight a second time during the fight phase
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Post by: LunarSol
BrookM wrote:
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You need to have at least three big Knights (Questoris or Dominus) to get your CP's in a Super-heavy detachment.
That's silly. Why so silly?
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Post by: BrookM
Nobles do not follow peasants.
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Post by: Justyn
You need to have at least three big Knights to get your CP's in a Super-heavy detachment.
One I could see, but three. That is beyond ridiculous. Plenty of factions can do cheap battalions for more CP. 7-800 Pts for 3 wouldn't have broken anything. This just screws people who want to play pure knights.
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Post by: changemod
And if you only took peasants?
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Post by: BrookM
Sounds like the Helm Mechanicum has malfunctioned then and the unruly mobs need to be put down.
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Post by: Wulfey
So you need 3 knights to unlock the strategems ... but they can't be little knights if you want CP ... great
EDIT: nvm I think ... good ... makes sense that they limit CHARACTER spamming
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Post by: XT-1984
BrookM wrote:
You need to have at least three big Knights (Questoris or Dominus) to get your CP's in a Super-heavy detachment.
You still get your CPs with Armigers, the rule is that you cannot make one knight a Character unless you have 3 big Knights in a detachment.
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Post by: drazz
BrookM wrote:Avenger down from 95 to 75
Automatically Appended Next Post:
You need to have at least three big Knights (Questoris or Dominus) to get your CP's in a Super-heavy detachment.
How are you supposed to have "at least 3?" It can only be three or less.
This seems very punitive. Unless there is some other mechanism to earn CP, pure Knights is going to be pretty rough in that regard.
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Post by: BrookM
This is probably done to prevent people spamming multiple lances of just Armigers to farm CP's. Automatically Appended Next Post: XT-1984 wrote: BrookM wrote:
You need to have at least three big Knights (Questoris or Dominus) to get your CP's in a Super-heavy detachment.
You still get your CPs with Armigers, the rule is that you cannot make one knight a Character unless you have 3 big Knights in a detachment.
Ah, my bad, I'll edit the quote and save myself some hate.
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Post by: WrentheFaceless
drazz wrote: BrookM wrote:Avenger down from 95 to 75
Automatically Appended Next Post:
You need to have at least three big Knights (Questoris or Dominus) to get your CP's in a Super-heavy detachment.
How are you supposed to have "at least 3?" It can only be three or less.
This seems very punitive. Unless there is some other mechanism to earn CP, pure Knights is going to be pretty rough in that regard.
I believe you're mistaking the auxilary with the actual super heavy detachment that is 3-5
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Post by: changemod
Yeah I didn’t hear anything about command points, just the disappointment that you can’t make an armiger a character if you felt like doing a scouting lance.
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Post by: LunarSol
BrookM wrote:This is probably done to prevent people spamming multiple lances of just Armigers to farm CP's.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
XT-1984 wrote: BrookM wrote:
You need to have at least three big Knights (Questoris or Dominus) to get your CP's in a Super-heavy detachment.
You still get your CPs with Armigers, the rule is that you cannot make one knight a Character unless you have 3 big Knights in a detachment.
Ah, my bad, I'll edit the quote and save myself some hate.
That makes a LOT more sense.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Well, a Gallant doesn't seem like it is total trash anymore. The Thunderstrike Gauntlet will be hitting on 3s now. So you can punch the gak out of just about anything and chuck the remains at other stuff. Still, I will keep my pair of Wardens with Thunderstrike Gauntlets instead. At this rate I will have three Knights with Gauntlets if I get Canis Rex.
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Post by: Wulfey
TERRYN gallant with the relic gauntlet swinging twice in a turn is pretty hot. Even stomping twice would be pretty beast. 30 str8, -2, d3 swings on a 2+ is getting viable.
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Post by: gendoikari87
 Stus67 wrote:Knight Gallant has an extra attack and an extra WS making it hit on 2s
[censored] why does gw have to give me reason to take a gallant?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay the rule about needing three big knights to unlock character traits is stupid
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
gendoikari87 wrote: Stus67 wrote:Knight Gallant has an extra attack and an extra WS making it hit on 2s
[censored] why does gw have to give me reason to take a gallant?
The thing stopping me from making one is the fact I don't have enough Thunderstrike Gauntlets to go around. I suppose if I make a Crusader instead of a second Warden, I could do it. But I dunno. I like my versatile Knights.
As for the character traits thing, hopefully the price reductions will be sufficient to fit more than 3 Knights in 2000 or game.
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Post by: Leo_the_Rat
This may sound weird but do you think that there's a chance that the big knights might be able to enter into melee with models in areas above ground level? As is now they can't because they have bases and are limited by measuring to them rather than their actual height.
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Post by: BrookM
Right, the Knight Lance was just clarified again: You must have three big Knights to get your CP's.
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Post by: changemod
Yeah it does punish command points, they just clarified.
Shame, I was considering that as a way to boost CP in a dreadnought army without substantially breaking theme.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
BrookM wrote:Right, the Knight Lance was just clarified again: You must have three big Knights to get your CP's.
So...what purpose do Armigers serve? Because right now they seem pretty pointless.
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Post by: Wulfey
Leo_the_Rat wrote:This may sound weird but do you think that there's a chance that the big knights might be able to enter into melee with models in areas above ground level? As is now they can't because they have bases and are limited by measuring to them rather than their actual height.
My local TO has ruled that models occupy a volume equal to a cylinder starting at their base and going up to the top of the model. Thus, distances are measured to and from the closest points on the cylinder, as opposed to base to base. So a knight whose cylinder is within 1" of a model on a ledge is within 1" for combat purposes. I suspect that a cylinder-like FAQ ruling may be coming soon.
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Post by: LunarSol
The character thing makes sense. Without it, purchasing additional Knights would just be a diminishing returns situation where each one after the first is just worse than only buying a single one.
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Post by: changemod
casvalremdeikun wrote: BrookM wrote:Right, the Knight Lance was just clarified again: You must have three big Knights to get your CP's.
So...what purpose do Armigers serve? Because right now they seem pretty pointless.
Honestly mostly just blocking in your leftover points.
Or alternately, adding one to a mechanicus army as a thematic heavy vehicle hunter.
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Post by: Justyn
Way to force us to ally in guard GW.
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Post by: gungo
You also can’t make your knight a warlord unless it’s a character. So 3 knights in a superheavy detachment and 6 armigers in another 2 SH detachments. If that doesn’t work then you effectively killed knight armies.
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Post by: Stus67
casvalremdeikun wrote: BrookM wrote:Right, the Knight Lance was just clarified again: You must have three big Knights to get your CP's.
So...what purpose do Armigers serve? Because right now they seem pretty pointless.
For shooting stuff your knights are better off not shooting at, and to fill up remaining points. Armigers were never meant to be center pieces.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
changemod wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: BrookM wrote:Right, the Knight Lance was just clarified again: You must have three big Knights to get your CP's.
So...what purpose do Armigers serve? Because right now they seem pretty pointless.
Honestly mostly just blocking in your leftover points.
Or alternately, adding one to a mechanicus army as a thematic heavy vehicle hunter.
That is basically the only thing I was using them for in the first place. Now that I am looking at Canis Rex, I am looking at possibly running two Freeblades instead of one big Knight and two Armigers, Canis Rex being one of them.
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Post by: Justyn
You also can’t make your knight a warlord unless it’s a character. So 3 knights in a superheavy detachment and 6 armigers in another 2 SH detachments. If that doesn’t work then you effectively killed knight armies.
That nets you 6 total CP. 3 for the first SH detachment and 3 for battleforged. For 180 pts you can get some Guard bubble wrap that give you 5cp.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
gungo wrote:You also can’t make your knight a warlord unless it’s a character. So 3 knights in a superheavy detachment and 6 armigers in another 2 SH detachments. If that doesn’t work then you effectively killed knight armies.
I wonder if that includes Canis Rex, since he is already a character. He was going to be my Warlord in my Ad Mech/Knights army.
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Post by: changemod
Stus67 wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: BrookM wrote:Right, the Knight Lance was just clarified again: You must have three big Knights to get your CP's.
So...what purpose do Armigers serve? Because right now they seem pretty pointless.
For shooting stuff your knights are better off not shooting at, and to fill up remaining points. Armigers were never meant to be center pieces.
Not meant to be centrepieces =/= doesn’t contribute as functional “troops”.
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Post by: Apple Peel
TBH, I was gonna do that anyway. They would be a regiment from the feudal world that my knights could come from. Anvil Industries has nice sallet helms and medieval helms with gas mask integration.
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Post by: Stus67
changemod wrote: Stus67 wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: BrookM wrote:Right, the Knight Lance was just clarified again: You must have three big Knights to get your CP's.
So...what purpose do Armigers serve? Because right now they seem pretty pointless.
For shooting stuff your knights are better off not shooting at, and to fill up remaining points. Armigers were never meant to be center pieces.
Not meant to be centrepieces =/= doesn’t contribute as functional “troops”.
A tank on legs isn't really supposed to be a functional troop either. It's the equivalent of a hellhound or another light tank. if you want troops you run Guard.
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
changemod wrote: Stus67 wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote: BrookM wrote:Right, the Knight Lance was just clarified again: You must have three big Knights to get your CP's.
So...what purpose do Armigers serve? Because right now they seem pretty pointless.
For shooting stuff your knights are better off not shooting at, and to fill up remaining points. Armigers were never meant to be center pieces.
Not meant to be centrepieces =/= doesn’t contribute as functional “troops”.
Bingo. I was hoping for ways to be able to run LOTS of Knights in a functional army. Because that is what I want to have. KNIGHTS. Not a ton of frickin' Guard.
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Post by: Stus67
Assuming people actually wanted to run full Knight armies with nothing but Armigers, or maybe a Knight or two and filling out the rest with Armigers, you're still Battleforged and get 3CP, and now you have half a dozen or more 12 wound mini-knights running across the board. The power is already there and you can always run Cannis Rex as your warlord.
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Post by: Justyn
TBH, I was gonna do that anyway. They would be a regiment from the feudal world that my knights could come from. Anvil Industries has nice sallet helms and medieval helms with gas mask integration.
Oh I have a crap load of Brettonians, not to mention my actual guard. But I was looking forward to just playing giant robots. Now I find that would be extremely self punishing. 6cp in a strategem dependant army like this just won't cut it.
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