That fort could give you a points refund and it still wouodnt br good.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The movement buff could work wonders on the Knight Valiant, or a Gallant that you're saving up for something.

Yeah i was thinking a gallant maybe even with a relic fist, flinging it across the battlefield T1 into enemy lines.

20 str 8 attacks as ws2 is also incredibly insane, just charge all the things

That terrain gives boost t2 earliest right? Need to be there turn without shooting

So, i'm on the side of the shrine absolutely sucking.

A Gallant has ways of getting a 1st turn charge without the shrine (plus the shrine won't let the Gallant charge that turn anyway...) So even if you were going for a turn 2 charge, you should be in a position to do it regardless.

Re-charging the Valiant might be ok, but, with a 28" threat range to begin with, you're prob going to be in range of front screens and scouts anyway. Plus, you prob don't want to be giving up the shooting of a missile and cannons for a turn. As soon as people start seeing more Knights, lists will change to deal with them better. Giving up a turn of shooting will generally mean you're Knight doesn't survive to do much next turn (especially if you've gone 2nd).

If you are out of range of shooting with the Valiant, then, you can always just save the 80 points and advance turn 1...

So the terrain piece is obviously complete crap. It’s ludicrous to suggest reloading a missile is worth giving up on firing a dominus class knight for a turn. I’m actually astonished that anyone could have written those rules.

I guess you could conceivably use it to refuel a gallant and hurl it forwards. But doing that would mean holding it back on turn one. So you aren’t really gaining anything- and you’re paying for it.

Oh and you’re buying a ruin to put guys in. That’s a good upgrade for some armies, but obviously not knights!

What a joke. The only positive is that they’ve served up all the weaksauce in the book in one building, which you can leave un-bought. There are lots of cool new toys for IK players but this is one less hole in your wallet.

Definitely not seeing the utility of the shrine. It takes the Knight essentially out of commission for a turn. Why not just go for broke and and run the Knight like normal?

It depends on the situation I suppose, but I will certainly be giving it a go with the Valiant, a refuelled conflagration cannon that does 18 auto-hits when it gets in range is a good trade off in my eyes.

Huh.... rites of refueling.... plus the advance and charge strat plus terryn


18" move plus 3d6 drop the lowest (8.5") plus another charge of 8.5"

that's 35" of movement average for house terryn in one turn

Or you could have moved and shot in the turn prior. Seems one of these is far better than the other. Parking for a turn is not the good choice.

This release seems like it had two writers who didn't talk to each other. Some of it is very excellent and themeatic. And then some of it is steamy hot garbage. Armigers were advertised as a way to fill out Super Heavy detachments to get more CP, and then do exactly the opposite. Then there is this terrain which has completely craptastic rules. Could have been fun and themeatic, but isn't. Best part is both are sold in the Knight Lance set on the GW webstore. So you can get screwed out of CP and pay pts for a useless piece of terrain all at once.

 BrookM wrote:
It depends on the situation I suppose, but I will certainly be giving it a go with the Valiant, a refuelled conflagration cannon that does 18 auto-hits when it gets in range is a good trade off in my eyes.

I suppose if you start with the Valiant docked and then run it up the field. Since the Shrine doesn't prevent Advancing, set the Shrine up with just enough space to fit your Valiant on the edge of your Deployment Zone, then move and Advance first turn. Then, provided your Valiant is still alive on your turn, go to where you need to and burninate the countryside. The Harpoon probably wasn't going to be able to be fired on first turn anyway.

Edit: Nevermind, it is the END of the movement phase. So scratch that. It is trash.

Mandragola wrote:
So the terrain piece is obviously complete crap. It’s ludicrous to suggest reloading a missile is worth giving up on firing a dominus class knight for a turn. I’m actually astonished that anyone could have written those rules.

This is why I laugh when people ascribe some nefarious motive to units being good or bad. If they were capable of making a unit good or bad on purpose rules like this would never exist and doubly so on a new model.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
So the terrain piece is obviously complete crap. It’s ludicrous to suggest reloading a missile is worth giving up on firing a dominus class knight for a turn. I’m actually astonished that anyone could have written those rules.

This is why I laugh when people ascribe some nefarious motive to units being good or bad. If they were capable of making a unit good or bad on purpose rules like this would never exist and doubly so on a new model.

Its cool from a narrative point of view, so they painted themselves into a corner. The real failure if you ask me was not building it on wheels.

I’m not sure I would give up a turn of shooting for all three of those effects, much less just one of them.

 BrookM wrote:
It depends on the situation I suppose, but I will certainly be giving it a go with the Valiant, a refuelled conflagration cannon that does 18 auto-hits when it gets in range is a good trade off in my eyes.

I suppose it does have very niche application against alpha strike armies - not only it does provide some cover, you can give up the shooting you won't get anyway to reply in overwatch or your turn with maximum dakka. Though, yeah, I'd just buy more units instead...

Amusingly even in the context of actually using the healing ability, a tech priest is better off standing outside the terrain piece and repairing separately than opting to assist it.

Real quick boys.

Does the Outflank strat let you send multiple Armigers to the sides? Since they deploy as a unit?

tneva82 wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The movement buff could work wonders on the Knight Valiant, or a Gallant that you're saving up for something.

Yeah i was thinking a gallant maybe even with a relic fist, flinging it across the battlefield T1 into enemy lines.

20 str 8 attacks as ws2 is also incredibly insane, just charge all the things

That terrain gives boost t2 earliest right? Need to be there turn without shooting

I'm assuming that rule is for units already not docked and you can start docked in it, like any other fortification. if not it's entirely a useless terrain piece which I will be using a lot.... just as terrain, just average ordinary terrain.

Another awkward thing about the Shrine is that you cannot use the Ritual of Reloading to get max shots on a weapon if you have fired one or more of your missiles on a Castellan or Valiant. In order to use the max shot option, your knight either has to have its full load of missiles or have no option for missiles (because you armed it with something else).

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Real quick boys.

Does the Outflank strat let you send multiple Armigers to the sides? Since they deploy as a unit?

it boils down to the right text in the Stratagem, if it says unit then the chance is right (if armigers deploy as unit but afterwards behave as independt models like leman russ)

Regarding the terrain...while it does sound crap at the start, a few things to consider:

1) If you build a Knight army, more often than not you're going to have X leftover points. If you have, whatever it costs (80 points?)...then add it.

2) If you buy the Knight Renegade boxed set - it now comes with enough terrain to build this, so you're getting a free bonus unit in that box (I don't think anyone will care what kit you use to construct that shrine)

3) If you're at your lowest tier, but can reasonably get into the middle tier...it could almost be worthwhile, particularly if you super-charge your weapon for one last fight (assuming you don't get taken down again in your opponent's turn).

4) The way we play 40K here, if a Knight is behind something that size he'd get a cover save...so you're actually buying yourself a piece of Knight sized cover?

I don't think it's as bad as the Eldar Warp Portal, but yeah the terrain pieces thus far are rather uninspiring.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Real quick boys.

Does the Outflank strat let you send multiple Armigers to the sides? Since they deploy as a unit?

it boils down to the right text in the Stratagem, if it says unit then the chance is right (if armigers deploy as unit but afterwards behave as independt models like leman russ)

Yeah. It completely changes what I end up wanting to do. Having 3 Terryn Warglaives show up to be greeted by a Terryn warlord booking it down the table with the +2/+2 advance/charge trait would give them only a 7" requirement on 3d6 dropping the lowest if he could make it within range.

That's... Pretty neat.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Lord Perversor wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Real quick boys.

Does the Outflank strat let you send multiple Armigers to the sides? Since they deploy as a unit?

it boils down to the right text in the Stratagem, if it says unit then the chance is right (if armigers deploy as unit but afterwards behave as independt models like leman russ)

Yeah. It completely changes what I end up wanting to do. Having 3 Terryn Warglaives show up to be greeted by a Terryn warlord booking it down the table with the +2/+2 advance/charge trait would give them only a 7" requirement on 3d6 dropping the lowest if he could make it within range.

That's... Pretty neat.

I think it's unit, so several armigers can outflank. I also believe it's 3CP so I was never that interested. Not that it probably should be cheaper, just that knights have some other good stratagems and relics I'd rather spend CP on

With an AM and Admech Battalion, including a CP battery I'll have 13CP to start, so while I agree it isn't always necessary, some deployments will make it a solid option if I drop them last and the opponent positions poorly

Wow, the Devastating Reach strategem... Actually accounting for their bizarre Ruins and CC rules?

They should give this as a BRB strategem for all Monsters.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Wow, the Devastating Reach strategem... Actually accounting for their bizarre Ruins and CC rules?

They should give this as a BRB strategem for all Monsters.

for the most part, the stratagems are pretty decent. Too bad an all Knight list will only have six CP max.

The Knight Lance should give +6 CP as a Command Benefit given its ridiculous requirements.

man this is a bummer ... preceptor will come in a few months instead

"You’ll have to wait a wee bit longer for the last new release to go alongside the new codex. The valiant Freeblade Sir Hekhtur, and his Knight Preceptor steed Canis Rex, will be available later in the year as part of a dual kit that also builds the Knight Preceptor (not to mention every other variant of Questoris-class Knight).

We showed off Sir Hekhtur last week (see here for more details about him), and you’ll get his full rules in the codex. We’ll be letting you know when he’s approaching (not that you’ll miss him in his ground-shaking Knight), so keep a close eye on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page for more news."
Edit: probably alongside SW with the whole canis acronym and yada yada

That's a damned shame indeed...

Calling it right now, Hekthur and Canis Rex will be available when the stuff from Rogue Trader goes to general availability.

Facebook article verifies that the Knight Preceptor box comes with EVERY weapon option available for the GW Questoris-class Knight. So now I will have three Avenger Gatling Cannons. But I don't know what I want to do with it. I might make a Crusader now, or give it to my brother since he doesn't have a AGC for any of his Knights.

Well, Canis Rex not coming out now does bite ass, but I have four Knights already.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Calling it right now, Hekthur and Canis Rex will be available when the stuff from Rogue Trader goes to general availability.

Why?

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Calling it right now, Hekthur and Canis Rex will be available when the stuff from Rogue Trader goes to general availability.

Why?

Freeblades have been fluffed as taking the iconography of those they're fighting alongside of, and what looks to be one of the more important members of the Imperial side of Rogue Trader has a very similar wolfshead as Canis Rex does.

Plus a Rogue Trader would be a great way for a Knight Freeblade to get around.

Cool. I was almost tempted to buy a preceptor. Glad I won’t be able to!

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
So the terrain piece is obviously complete crap. It’s ludicrous to suggest reloading a missile is worth giving up on firing a dominus class knight for a turn. I’m actually astonished that anyone could have written those rules.

This is why I laugh when people ascribe some nefarious motive to units being good or bad. If they were capable of making a unit good or bad on purpose rules like this would never exist and doubly so on a new model.

100x this. To be fair, GW does often do stuff that’s so bafflingly stupid that it’s hard to believe they aren’t doing it on purpose. Nobody with an ounce of sense would price dark reapers at 27pts, just to pick one example. Somebody at GW not only did this, but they were actually paid a salary as a game designer to do it.

But what would their motive be for making reapers too cheap? It can’t have been sales - they didn’t have enough dark reapers in stock to meet the demand they created.

Sadly then, we can only conclude that they really, really don’t get it. They are doing their best, bless them.

Baffling, but Okay. I’m thrilled to hear he comes with a gattling cannon though: It’ll mean less sharing magnetised parts with my renegade knight and thus more freedom to paint my knights in differing colour schemes.

I've seen a couple mentions of multiple relics in Knight armies, but what's the actual wording on the rule that lets you take them. Aren't Relics normally restricted to characters? Would it even be possible to take 2 characters in a list given its 1 per Super Heavy Detachment?

 LunarSol wrote:
I've seen a couple mentions of multiple relics in Knight armies, but what's the actual wording on the rule that lets you take them. Aren't Relics normally restricted to characters? Would it even be possible to take 2 characters in a list given its 1 per Super Heavy Detachment?

Exalted Court (1 / 3 CP): Use this stratagem before the battle. After you have chosen your warlord, choose one Questor class or Dominus class model from your army for 1 command point, or choose two such models for 3 command points. Each model you choose gains the character keyword, and you can choose an Imperial Knights warlord trait for them [+ more text RE restrictions]"

I guess you would then use the extra relic strat to get more relics for them.

Ah. It specifically makes them a character. That would do it. Does this work on aux super heavy knights?

The Canis Rex/Preceptor news is surprising on several fronts. I wonder if its release will be tied to a future event or campaign?

More likely tied to ongoing production capacity woes.

 LunarSol wrote:
Ah. It specifically makes them a character. That would do it. Does this work on aux super heavy knights?

I would assume so otherwise there wouldn't be much point allying them into other factions. In that case, if you do take an Aux SHD with a knight, does it still get the household trait from that weird lance ruling?

Or they want to burn through their stack of already-packaged Knight Warden boxes since they will become instantly redundant.

 LunarSol wrote:
Ah. It specifically makes them a character. That would do it. Does this work on aux super heavy knights?

if that’s the actual wording then yes. You choose your warlord (who can’t be a knight because it’s not a character yet), then you pay a cp to make your auxiliary knight a character. He also gets a warlord trait.

I think I’ve read that freeblades are allowed relics too. I couldn’t link to the rule though I’m afraid. That might be a way to get an auxiliary knight a relic for cheap.

And finally you can take a couple of armigers to make a superheavy detachment. You don’t get cps but you do get your big knight to be a character. So if you wanted you could see this as giving you 1 cp - you haven’t been given it but you don’t have to spend it.

Mandragola wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Ah. It specifically makes them a character. That would do it. Does this work on aux super heavy knights?

if that’s the actual wording then yes. You choose your warlord (who can’t be a knight because it’s not a character yet), then you pay a cp to make your auxiliary knight a character. He also gets a warlord trait.

I think I’ve read that freeblades are allowed relics too. I couldn’t link to the rule though I’m afraid. That might be a way to get an auxiliary knight a relic for cheap.

And finally you can take a couple of armigers to make a superheavy detachment. You don’t get cps but you do get your big knight to be a character. So if you wanted you could see this as giving you 1 cp - you haven’t been given it but you don’t have to spend it.

If you get a warlord trait though it seems worth spending the CP anyway, particularly with some of those improved save options.

I guess it depends on whether or not you can use the strategems with Aux detachments. The Chapter Approved strategem allows it, but most factions do not (though this seems to be consistent in CA as well).

Maybe I missed it, but any updates on FW knight interactions with the codex?

Also it’s probably time to reassess which of my 8 knight models I actually need.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but any updates on FW knight interactions with the codex?

I'm sure that FW will update their Knight rules to be compatible with this codex in Fires of Cyraxus, when it is finally released sometime in the early 22nd century.

Aw man, no freeblade for a while!

Damn shame, but at least it sorts out my spending dilemma. Grab Forgebane and a box of Arimgers leave the bigger bot till that kit drops.

Had hoped the freeblade kit would be an upgrade blister pack rather than a full kit, I could have gone for the Renegade box then, but I don't really need that many knights. I do want to go to town on a chaos knight conversion, but I'll just have to keep that at bay til AT in aug (or do the spare Armiger in a chaos style).

 Crimson wrote:
I'm sure that FW will update their Knight rules to be compatible with this codex in Fires of Cyraxus, when it is finally released sometime in the early 22nd century.

Feeling optimistic I see But really GW have been throwing plenty of spanners into the works of that book lately. Hopefully the 8th ed Knights Codex is the last roadblock on its progress.

Wow, have you guys seen that tabletop tactics video? That new Knight Valiant with the conflagration cannon is ridiculous! 3d6 str 7, AP -2 damage 2. There is a strategem to reroll wounds. A nurgle Daemon Prince literally died just attempting to charge that knight. The overwatch fire was so op! Because other than the conflagration cannon, you got to brave the overwatch of all of the other stuff that the knight Valiant has in its arsenal. Roll so many dice, sure got some sixes in them.

And that spear like gun does 10 damage plus d3 mortal wounds if it wounded the target... It can literally one shot any vehicle with 11 wounds or below.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Wow, have you guys seen that tabletop tactics video? That new Knight Castellan with the conflagration cannon is ridiculous! 3d6 str 7, AP -2 damage 2. There is a strategem to reroll wounds. A nurgle Daemon Prince literally died just attempting to charge that knight. The overwatch fire was so op! Because other than the conflagration cannon, you got to brave the overwatch of all of the other stuff that the knight castellan has in its arsenal. Roll so many dice, sure got some sixes in them.

And that spear like gun does 10 damage plus d3 mortal wounds if it wounded the target... It can literally one shot any vehicle with 11 wounds or below.

The reroll wounds was from the conflagration cannon being upgraded to the relic The Traitors Pyre. Was a very entertaining battle report for the Knights

I ended up biting the bullet and ordering a Valiant. Partly because of that damned Conflagration Cannon. Even the non-relic version is beastly. I am actually looking at running one of those big boys with two Wardens with Thunderstrikes and Stormspears. Drop the 3x relic Strategem and get the Traitor's Pyre on the Valiant, the Paragon Gauntlet on one Warden, and Endless Fury on the other (fluffwise, I am saying the Wardens are piloted by fraternal twins). Should be fun times.

Is there any way to get the relic flamer (imperialis only) and the relic plasma gun (mechanicus only) in one detachment?

I’ve heard some rumors that you can’t mix and match houses in one detachment. Can you make one of the dominus class knights a freeblade, thereby allowing you to have both relics in one detachment?

The answer to that is probably yes. Given how past Codex's have been written, the only requirement for Relics was they go on an appropriate character. You probably wouldn't be able to use Specific Warlord Traits or Stratagems though.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Or they want to burn through their stack of already-packaged Knight Warden boxes since they will become instantly redundant.

Except new kit likely costs more

Anyone see any word on how renegades will work since they will now be the only chaos version of knights? =/ (Super salty 'cause I have 1 renegade and 2 chaos knights)

drakerocket wrote:
Anyone see any word on how renegades will work since they will now be the only chaos version of knights? =/ (Super salty 'cause I have 1 renegade and 2 chaos knights)

Renegades are still Index only.

proxy your renegades. Say you are a full IK army, using IK rules, but apperance and fluff wise, you are a renegade house.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
proxy your renegades. Say you are a full IK army, using IK rules, but apperance and fluff wise, you are a renegade house.

This. Only thing you'll loose is ability to take chaos marines/daemons with you.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:

 aracersss wrote:

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
They are going to rerelease the current kit with another frame of weapons and stuff (for another £10) before Christmas.

source or sarcasm?

The source is good.

WarCom supports this rumor, thanks again for the info, DJB

Can you freely change the Cannons/Missiles on top of the new Knights or are they set?

 Eldarain wrote:
Can you freely change the Cannons/Missiles on top of the new Knights or are they set?

2/1 in either configuration

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/06/02/codex-review-imperial-knights-part-1-army-special-rules-stratagems-relics-and-warlord-traits/

Danit wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Can you freely change the Cannons/Missiles on top of the new Knights or are they set?

2/1 in either configuration

So all knights have the feared missiles of character slaying +1?

 Jidmah wrote:

Danit wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Can you freely change the Cannons/Missiles on top of the new Knights or are they set?

2/1 in either configuration

So all knights have the feared missiles of character slaying +1?

Well all the bigger knights then.

No character slaying missiles on standard knights.

Plus it's character slaying missile on 1 knight per turn anyway. You don't want too many of those in an army seeing you'll be shooting 2-4 at most during game generally.

Well, my pre-orders are in.

And at a healthy discount...

 LunarSol wrote:


If you get a warlord trait though it seems worth spending the CP anyway, particularly with some of those improved save options.

I guess it depends on whether or not you can use the strategems with Aux detachments. The Chapter Approved strategem allows it, but most factions do not (though this seems to be consistent in CA as well).

They are different Detachments.

One's the normal Auxiliary Detachment, which explicitly does not unlock Stratagems and costs you a single CP for your army. It's the one for a single Assassin or something.

The other is the Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment, most often seen (up to now) for things like Mortarion, Guilliman, etc.. for a single Superheavy. It is 0 CP and, to my knowledge, unlocks Stratagems.

Hmm... how about this as a melee ally for a shooty list?

1. Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment
2. IK Gallant and the 'best-in-slot' Household for it (Krast, I believe) or a Freeblade
3. 1CP on Exalted Court and give it the Landstrider WT
4. Give it the 5++ in melee relic
5. Release the leash and profit!

Pre-orders done. Renegade box and a Valiant for me, and some data cards. Already have a Porphyrion done, but that is so damn expensive in 40k that it's almost unusable. The Valiant will have to take his place.

Also need to finish my Atrapos and Lancer. Gonna have a nice mix of Questoris and Cerastus knights covering the Valiant as he's stomping up the table slowly.

Pre-ordered mine on Saturday while working. For once I'm glad that GW has those one-click bundles as their store is a bit of a hassle to navigate on a phone.

Went with the essentials collection, Lance collection, Renegade, a battle gauge, some sprays, regular paints and a classic Enginseer they still sell online.

May pick up extra Helverins and a box of Warglaives next weekend, maybe another Forge Shrine as well, budget permitting.

Why are you ordering from GW?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why are you ordering from GW?

Cause he can? I'm going to wait for the freeblade. Don't feel the need to go all in.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why are you ordering from GW?

Even I put down my pom-poms and ordered from Dark Sphere and Wargames Armoury for this one!

Now, to wait and see what filth FW come out with for the Dominus Chassis....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And come to think of it, wonder if the Porphyrion's dakka is gonna get souped up any? Because the Volcano is making large lascannons look, well, a little weedy. Even if there's four of them!

Maybe FW will just change it to four Volcano Lances and be done with it. There’s no actual reason they need to have another profile. Also, “volcano” tech is canonically just really-big-laser tech so it’s not that much of a stretch.
Would be nice if they got some kind of bonus for firing a pair at a single target though.

Been ages since I cracked open the relative index, but is it not two sets of twinlinked?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why are you ordering from GW?

Because my erstwhile FLGS has become so massively unreliable recently when it comes to GW orders. I'd rather pay full price and get it on the day of release instead of maybe getting it two or three weeks down the road if I'm lucky. This is the one big release of the year for me and I'd rather pay extra and be guaranteed that I get what I want when I want it than be made to wait who knows how long until it can be picked up, so discounts be damned.

It doesn't help that the account manager GW has assigned to non-GW stores in the Netherlands is an idiot who can't even send in the right product.

Want the Crimson Slaughter codex? HAVE SEVERAL BATCHES OF CARROBURG CRIMSON.

Want a Stormlord tank? HAVE AN IMOTEKH THE STORMLORD BLISTER.

Want a novel? HERE'S A KIT BASED ON THE NOVEL INSTEAD.

Same here, I pre-ordered from GW as well. I live close to an official GW store, so it's the easiest for me. I don't mind paying the extra for release day guarantee. I really only do it for pre-orders though, when I really want it on release day.

I'll enjoy the $100 I saved.

And normally I would gladly take the 20% discount I usually get, but reasons.

Guess I'll work on that hangar for my display cabinet later down the line. A pair of these, one as a floor, the other as a wall, with sector mechanicus walkways and tanks attached to it should make for a good hangar vignette to display models with:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Been ages since I cracked open the relative index, but is it not two sets of twinlinked?

Indeed but twin linked doesn’t exist in 8th edition and I was thinking mainly of adding the porphyrion to my Questor Mechanicus list. That said, what would be better; 8d6 S10 shots or 4d6 S14 shots?

The CP restriction coupled with learning that the non-cog shoulders only come with the dual cannon Armiger kit have really killed my enthusiasm for this release. I don't want to have to hunt down bits online just so I can give my Armigers a uniform look, especially when they aren't contributing CP to my army.

 EnTyme wrote:
The CP restriction coupled with learning that the non-cog shoulders only come with the dual cannon Armiger kit have really killed my enthusiasm for this release. I don't want to have to hunt down bits online just so I can give my Armigers a uniform look, especially when they aren't contributing CP to my army.

Joke's on you, because I've come up with a great way to make use of this quandry.

Pull a Techmarine. One pad is Mechanicus, one is Knights. Works great for House Cadmus since they're only recently 'released' from the Mechanicus thanks to their associated Forge World getting nommed.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
The CP restriction coupled with learning that the non-cog shoulders only come with the dual cannon Armiger kit have really killed my enthusiasm for this release. I don't want to have to hunt down bits online just so I can give my Armigers a uniform look, especially when they aren't contributing CP to my army.

Joke's on you, because I've come up with a great way to make use of this quandry.

Pull a Techmarine. One pad is Mechanicus, one is Knights. Works great for House Cadmus since they're only recently 'released' from the Mechanicus thanks to their associated Forge World getting nommed.

I was planning on going Cadmus and am totally stealing this idea. Thank you!

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
The CP restriction coupled with learning that the non-cog shoulders only come with the dual cannon Armiger kit have really killed my enthusiasm for this release. I don't want to have to hunt down bits online just so I can give my Armigers a uniform look, especially when they aren't contributing CP to my army.

Joke's on you, because I've come up with a great way to make use of this quandry.

Pull a Techmarine. One pad is Mechanicus, one is Knights. Works great for House Cadmus since they're only recently 'released' from the Mechanicus thanks to their associated Forge World getting nommed.

I was planning on going Cadmus and am totally stealing this idea. Thank you!

You're absolutely welcome! I've used a bit of sprue to keep the shoulderpads and the ankle/leg/knee plates as their own components. Worked like a charm. Feel free to steal that too.

The Renegade box will allow you to build every "classic" knight variant, right? I ordered it hoping I can magnetize all the weapons and play whichever variant I need at any given time.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:


If you get a warlord trait though it seems worth spending the CP anyway, particularly with some of those improved save options.

I guess it depends on whether or not you can use the strategems with Aux detachments. The Chapter Approved strategem allows it, but most factions do not (though this seems to be consistent in CA as well).

They are different Detachments.

One's the normal Auxiliary Detachment, which explicitly does not unlock Stratagems and costs you a single CP for your army. It's the one for a single Assassin or something.

The other is the Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment, most often seen (up to now) for things like Mortarion, Guilliman, etc.. for a single Superheavy. It is 0 CP and, to my knowledge, unlocks Stratagems.

Yup, I know the difference, I just wasn't 100% sure GW didn't include wording to rule out the Aux. I know from Chapter Approved the way they worded it stops an Aux Knight from being your Warlord or taking the Relic Chainblade, but allows it to use the strategem. I just didn't know if the new strategems have any limits like only being available to Knight Lances or Super Heavy Detachments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rajah wrote:
The Renegade box will allow you to build every "classic" knight variant, right? I ordered it hoping I can magnetize all the weapons and play whichever variant I need at any given time.

Correct, but there's only one Warden upgrade sprue so you only get access to 1 Avenger Gatling Cannon, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Icarus Cannon, and Missile Pod.

Rajah wrote:
The Renegade box will allow you to build every "classic" knight variant, right? I ordered it hoping I can magnetize all the weapons and play whichever variant I need at any given time.

Yes but only 1. It has only 1 sprue containing fist and gatling cannon. So say gallant and crusader works, warden and crusader doesn't nor 2 crusaders.

Idea, 5 knight errant in 2000 points? Good bad or dick move?

The Knight Errants are okay, but imho after the paladin probably the worst choice. I would recommand running 5 Gallants and add a 180 points AM battery.
On the other hand... the rule of 3 doesn't allow for 5 of anything...

So what’s looking to be the winning combination of knights and Armigers so far with a 180pt. Guard army?

I really hope GW rereleases the additional Imperial Knight transfer sheet with Griffith and Mortan. It is between those two houses for me.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Idea, 5 knight errant in 2000 points? Good bad or dick move?

5x errants certainly wouldn't be something I'd reccomend even if we don't abide by the rule of three. All your anti horde is tied up in stomp attacks so ruins would shut you down hard.

I really like the gallant now, 354 points (don't even add a carapace weapon, keept it cheap if you advance turn 1), great for some dedicated CC. But a pure knight army basically has to have a avenger gatling cannon for "anti-horde" IMO (even if it's still overkill, and choose the relic avenger) One errant is a solid idea though, the randomness of the thermal cannon sucks but it's good at anti tank shooting and fairly cheap.

One crusader with a RFBC, an avenger, heavy stubber and ironstorm rocket pod is 501 points. Plus a basic gallant, 354 points. Errant plus stormspear rocket pod is 440.Then maybe a warden with a stormspear rocket pod, 456 points. That puts the list at 1751 points, plenty of space for an allied battalion if one should want. Or take out a few carapace weapons and add 2 armigers so you get one "full" detachment and another one that doesn't give out CP but at least makes a knight a character. Make one avenger the relic one and maybe upgrade the gallant fist or a stormspear rocket pod?

But hey, what do I know?

I think the choice is going to be problematic if you plan to Ally anything in if you go with three big knight (and thus the cost) or of you sacrifice the CPs to take one or two big knights with armigers. Too early to tell in my opinion.

Do we know the explosion size/damage for Armigers?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Do we know the explosion size/damage for Armigers?

I assume it's still the same as in forgebane:. 6" d3 damage.

Looking forward to getting mine all built - and probably even painted.

Guys at my local club do a lot of tournaments, so I’ve volunteered to be their practice whipping boy for when they inevitably come up against Knights.

I’ve barely a clue what I’m doing these days, so chances are I’ll be a soft target. But more gaming is always welcome.

 Buzzdady wrote:
So what’s looking to be the winning combination of knights and Armigers so far with a 180pt. Guard army?

im running a paladin , a warden, three Warglaives and two Helverins with three ml squads of guard. But that’s because I’m going more fluff than tactics Tybalt + oathsworn plus 2 attendants with Balthazar kingsward + oathsworn and one attendant with some guard allies

 buddha wrote:
I think the choice is going to be problematic if you plan to Ally anything in if you go with three big knight (and thus the cost) or of you sacrifice the CPs to take one or two big knights with armigers. Too early to tell in my opinion.

You can definitely do 1 Dominus, 2 Questoris, 2 Armiger, Guard Battalion.

If the Dominus/Armigers were multikits that I could magnetize I'd buy this in a heartbeat. I'm probably going to wait and see how lists shake out since the kits aren't flexible enough to experiment with.

For those wanting some more good fluff: https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/eshort-defiant.html

Pyrodiah is in grave peril. The undying alien necrons have risen and swarm across the world, burning hive cities and decimating the population. The Imperial Knights of Adrastapol have arrived to help sway the war in the Imperium's favour, but their commander – Lady Jennika Tan Draconis, pilot of the storied Knight Fire Defiant – knows all too well the danger the necrons pose and the cost that will inevitably come with victory.

Should be good, Jenn is a total badass.

 BrookM wrote:
For those wanting some more good fluff: https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/eshort-defiant.html

Pyrodiah is in grave peril. The undying alien necrons have risen and swarm across the world, burning hive cities and decimating the population. The Imperial Knights of Adrastapol have arrived to help sway the war in the Imperium's favour, but their commander – Lady Jennika Tan Draconis, pilot of the storied Knight Fire Defiant – knows all too well the danger the necrons pose and the cost that will inevitably come with victory.

Should be good, Jenn is a total badass.

About 3/4 of the way through Kingsblade now. Really turned me on to Imperial Knights and their fluff. Such a good book.

It bothers me that the scrollwork on that image of the knight for the Defiant cover is blank.

That said, a knight vs. Necrons story sounds interesting.

This probably already came up, but... Do the Armiger's have an invulnerable save?

 oni wrote:
This probably already came up, but... Do the Armiger's have an invulnerable save?

5+ vs shooting.

Here's the maths for the Death Grip stratagem, should anyone be interested.

Versus:

S1/2 - Auto Kill

S3 - 1/36 chance to escape, average of ~73MW

S4 - 1/12 chance to escape, ~25MW

S5 - 1/6 chance to escape, ~13MW

S6 - 5/18 chance to escape, ~8MW

S7 - 5/12 chance to escape, ~6MW

S8 - 7/12 chance to escape, ~4MW

S9 - 13/18 chance to escape, ~3MW

S10 - 5/6 chance to escape, ~3MW

Help you decide if that 1CP is worth it (Notice how Guilliman will on average be squeezed to Death ).

 mrhappyface wrote:
Here's the maths for the Death Grip stratagem, should anyone be interested.

Versus:

S1/2 - Auto Kill

S3 - 1/36 chance to escape, average of ~73MW

S4 - 1/12 chance to escape, ~25MW

S5 - 1/6 chance to escape, ~13MW

S6 - 5/18 chance to escape, ~8MW

S7 - 5/12 chance to escape, ~6MW

S8 - 7/12 chance to escape, ~4MW

S9 - 13/18 chance to escape, ~3MW

S10 - 5/6 chance to escape, ~3MW

Help you decide if that 1CP is worth it (Notice how Guilliman will on average be squeezed to Death ).

Cool, thanks! Also, which keyword is Gulliman? Oh, monster you say? That means we get to chuck his carcass at something else after he's squeezed to death. (At least the second time, don't know if he would be thrown before getting the chance to resurrect)

But you still have to hit with the fist.

 Astmeister wrote:
But you still have to hit with the fist.

Yeah, but a gallant with the paragon gauntlet hits on a 2+. Or some house traits help out if you don't wan to get the relic/ a gallant

 Astmeister wrote:
But you still have to hit with the fist.

On a Warden with the relic fist (assuming no other modifiers, of which there seem to be plenty), your WS is 2+. Rerollable.

I don't think its going to be too difficult to use this.

 Astmeister wrote:
But you still have to hit with the fist.

My Mortan Warden with the Paragon Gauntlet hits on 2s rerollable. If he manages to connect with one of his fist strikes in the first place, he takes Guilliman down to 1 wound left (provided the barrage of shooting didn't take one off of him). Then the strategem kicks in and he kills him before he even has to roll off.

Still, there are better things to go after with this strategem.

You only have to hit once..... If i can hit once, i can hit twice, i got the magic fist

Why is your warden hitting on twos? Mortan gets +1 to hit in melee?

 Crazyterran wrote:
Why is your warden hitting on twos? Mortan gets +1 to hit in melee?

The relic fist doesent have -1 to hit

 Crazyterran wrote:
Why is your warden hitting on twos? Mortan gets +1 to hit in melee?

The Paragon Gauntlet has no penalty to hit. So my Knight would hit on 2s when charging and reroll failed to hit rolls.

One question I have is if Siegebreaker Missiles are priced individually or if you get two for the listed points.

Wardens hit on a 3+ baseline, so unless you meant Gallants...

Since you said Warden here:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
But you still have to hit with the fist.

My Mortan Warden with the Paragon Gauntlet hits on 2s rerollable. If he manages to connect with one of his fist strikes in the first place, he takes Guilliman down to 1 wound left (provided the barrage of shooting didn't take one off of him). Then the strategem kicks in and he kills him before he even has to roll off.

Still, there are better things to go after with this strategem.

do we know if the codex doesn't limit the amount of relics the army can have (since the strat doesn't specify the new characters get access or not)

One thing I noticed that the GW preview got wrong (looks like a copy/paste error): House Mortan is a flat +1 to hit on the charge, when receiving a charge, or when intervening. It doesn't get the rerolls to hit. That's Krast only. Every codex review I've seen pointed that out, and Reece at FLG confirmed it. Still good, just more competitive with Krast.

Danit wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Why is your warden hitting on twos? Mortan gets +1 to hit in melee?

The relic fist doesent have -1 to hit

WTFFFF Gallants OP! Alright, yeah, always take the relic fist. I can't wait for 1750 now. So excited for this list.

All gallants are KRAST with stubbers and ironstorms
Gallant1 - 4++, relic fist
Gallant2 - +2" charge aura, 2+ armor
Gallant3 - +1 attack, Headman's mark -> +1 dam versus 10W+, +2 versus titantic -> 18 stomps that deal D3+1 versus flyrants
BLANGELS - smashCap, Mephiston (denies, low CP killer), 3x5 bolterscouts
TALLARN - 2x coms, 3x guards

 Crazyterran wrote:
Wardens hit on a 3+ baseline, so unless you meant Gallants...

Since you said Warden here:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
But you still have to hit with the fist.

My Mortan Warden with the Paragon Gauntlet hits on 2s rerollable. If he manages to connect with one of his fist strikes in the first place, he takes Guilliman down to 1 wound left (provided the barrage of shooting didn't take one off of him). Then the strategem kicks in and he kills him before he even has to roll off.

Still, there are better things to go after with this strategem.

Mortan gives +1 to hit on the charge. And reroll failed to hits in melee. So still 2s rerollable.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Mortan gives +1 to hit on the charge. And reroll failed to hits in melee. So still 2s rerollable.

the reroll part was wrong

 aracersss wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Mortan gives +1 to hit on the charge. And reroll failed to hits in melee. So still 2s rerollable.

the reroll part was wrong

What do you mean?

That's the incorrect preview. Notice how the first sentence is missing punctuation? It's a copy/paste error by whatever GW employee made it. Reece at FLG confirmed that Mortan only gets +1 to hit. No rerolls in close combat.

However, they do get a -1 to hit WL trait, and an ignore modifiers for 1 CP stratagem, so they run a Knight Crusader REALLY well.

TheThievingMick wrote:
That's the incorrect preview. Notice how the first sentence is missing punctuation? It's a copy/paste error by whatever GW employee made it. Reece at FLG confirmed that Mortan only gets +1 to hit. No rerolls in close combat.

However, they do get a -1 to hit WL trait, and an ignore modifiers for 1 CP stratagem, so they run a Knight Crusader REALLY well.

If that is the case, it drives down my desire to play Mortan a little bit. Not totally, but a little.

what about the relic count? ... is it the same like the rest ... do any character get access to relics since you gotta pay for character ... or nah?

TheThievingMick wrote:
That's the incorrect preview. Notice how the first sentence is missing punctuation? It's a copy/paste error by whatever GW employee made it. Reece at FLG confirmed that Mortan only gets +1 to hit. No rerolls in close combat.

However, they do get a -1 to hit WL trait, and an ignore modifiers for 1 CP stratagem, so they run a Knight Crusader REALLY well.

No offense but Reese may have inside knowledge and is a play tester but that doesn't mean he knows everything that GW is doing. It's possible that he is right but it's also possible that the preview is correct. The designers may have "changed" what Reese knew without telling him (perish the thought).

Let's see what the codex says. We'll know soon enough.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

TheThievingMick wrote:
That's the incorrect preview. Notice how the first sentence is missing punctuation? It's a copy/paste error by whatever GW employee made it. Reece at FLG confirmed that Mortan only gets +1 to hit. No rerolls in close combat.

However, they do get a -1 to hit WL trait, and an ignore modifiers for 1 CP stratagem, so they run a Knight Crusader REALLY well.

No offense but Reese may have inside knowledge and is a play tester but that doesn't mean he knows everything that GW is doing. It's possible that he is right but it's also possible that the preview is correct. The designers may have "changed" what Reese knew without telling him (perish the thought).

Let's see what the codex says. We'll know soon enough.

I seem to remember hearing them say you can reroll hits in the fight phase in a few reviews I listened to. I suppose I will know when my codex comes this week.

Reece, and other reviewers, read the household tradition for house Mortan straight out of the codex, word for word. It's +1 to hit.

No offense.

Yup they are reviewers and already have the codex.

 aracersss wrote:
what about the relic count? ... is it the same like the rest ... do any character get access to relics since you gotta pay for character ... or nah?

If your warlord is a knight his detachment gets 1 free relic. You can buy 1 or 2 with CP and put them in any detachment you'd like.

That's fine, if Reese is reading from the codex then he is giving proper information. You didn't state any source but Reese himself. The true source would be the codex (it just happened that Reese was reading it to you).

 raverrn wrote:
a knight his detachment gets 1 free relic. You can buy 1 or 2 with CP and put them in any detachment you'd like.

so let me get this straight ... knights need to pay 1/3 CP for 1-2 characters (each with a new wt) ... then 1/3 again for 1-2 additional relics?
... if that's case that's bs

TheThievingMick wrote:
Reece, and other reviewers, read the household tradition for house Mortan straight out of the codex, word for word. It's +1 to hit.

No offense.

Fair enough. The +1 to Hit still makes my Paragon Fist a beast of a weapon for smashing stuff. It does make me want Cunning Commander instead of Ion Bulwark now. That reroll will help make sure I can grab someone with the Paragon Gauntlet for Death Grip.

 aracersss wrote:

 raverrn wrote:
a knight his detachment gets 1 free relic. You can buy 1 or 2 with CP and put them in any detachment you'd like.

so let me get this straight ... knights need to pay 1/3 CP for 1-2 characters (each with a new wt) ... then 1/3 again for 1-2 additional relics?
... if that's case that's bs

Well, one warlord trait is +1CP and another is absolutely worth CP expenditure (Landstrider), so really you're getting a pretty good deal there.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
That's fine, if Reese is reading from the codex then he is giving proper information. You didn't state any source but Reese himself. The true source would be the codex (it just happened that Reese was reading it to you).

FWIW Atia has posted photos of this directly from the codex:

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2992

 raverrn wrote:


Well, one warlord trait is +1CP and another is absolutely worth CP expenditure (Landstrider)

it add ups to my discontent that you need to spend 2(1)-6(5) CPs for 1-2 relics

... which frankly is BS given how dif is to get CP with only knights ... and even then it shouldn't be that much

 aracersss wrote:

 raverrn wrote:


Well, one warlord trait is +1CP and another is absolutely worth CP expenditure (Landstrider)

it add ups to my discontent that you need to spend 2(1)-6(5) CPs for 1-2 relics

... which frankly is BS given how dif is to get CP with only knights ... and even then it shouldn't be that much

You don't have to spend anything. You get a character if you have 3 big knights in your detachment and you get a relic for free - like absolutely everyone else.

Then, like everyone else, you can choose to spend CPs buying more relics. Yes, you need to make knights into characters to do this, but you also get warlord traits for them if you do!

Personally I think it makes a lot of sense to make a 2nd knight into a character and give him a relic. That's a good deal for 2CP. I think it's more debatable about whether it's worth spending an extra 4CPs to get a third knight a warlord trait and relic.

 aracersss wrote:

 raverrn wrote:


Well, one warlord trait is +1CP and another is absolutely worth CP expenditure (Landstrider)

it add ups to my discontent that you need to spend 2(1)-6(5) CPs for 1-2 relics

... which frankly is BS given how dif is to get CP with only knights ... and even then it shouldn't be that much

You've got the ability to get one Relic for free, two for 1cp total, and three for three so long as you have two detachments - A detachment of Questoris and one of a Questoris + Armigers is totally doable at 2k points.

Even if not, 5 CP isn't asking too much for two additional warlord traits, two relics and two heroic interventions.

So if I take a super heavy auxiliary for one knight crusader, does the knight lance rule make it a character and give it a warlord trait, where I can then (assuming I already took a relic elsewhere) pay 1cp to give it a relic? And, will this auxiliary knight benefit from a household trait, unlike an astra militarum auxiliary detachment shadowsword which gets no doctrine?

 ph34r wrote:
So if I take a super heavy auxiliary for one knight crusader, does the knight lance rule make it a character and give it a warlord trait, where I can then (assuming I already took a relic elsewhere) pay 1cp to give it a relic? And, will this auxiliary knight benefit from a household trait, unlike an astra militarum auxiliary detachment shadowsword which gets no doctrine?

Knight Lance applies to Super Heavy Detachment, not Super Heavy Auxiliary.

 ph34r wrote:
So if I take a super heavy auxiliary for one knight crusader, does the knight lance rule make it a character and give it a warlord trait, where I can then (assuming I already took a relic elsewhere) pay 1cp to give it a relic? And, will this auxiliary knight benefit from a household trait, unlike an astra militarum auxiliary detachment shadowsword which gets no doctrine?

A superheavy detachment not a auxiliary is a lance.

It makes it a character but it only gets a warlord trait if its the warlord. The stratagem exaulted court makes a knight a character and gives it a trait for 1/3 cp.

Quick question: how long are we expecting the Renegades box set to be available for?

Danit wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
So if I take a super heavy auxiliary for one knight crusader, does the knight lance rule make it a character and give it a warlord trait, where I can then (assuming I already took a relic elsewhere) pay 1cp to give it a relic? And, will this auxiliary knight benefit from a household trait, unlike an astra militarum auxiliary detachment shadowsword which gets no doctrine?

A superheavy detachment not a auxiliary is a lance.

It makes it a character but it only gets a warlord trait if its the warlord. The stratagem exaulted court makes a knight a character and gives it a trait for 1/3 cp.

Platuan4th wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
So if I take a super heavy auxiliary for one knight crusader, does the knight lance rule make it a character and give it a warlord trait, where I can then (assuming I already took a relic elsewhere) pay 1cp to give it a relic? And, will this auxiliary knight benefit from a household trait, unlike an astra militarum auxiliary detachment shadowsword which gets no doctrine?

Knight Lance applies to Super Heavy Detachment, not Super Heavy Auxiliary.

Gotcha. So while you could not have a Character knight without it being your actual Warlord in a Super Heavy Aux, you could still take a regular Knight in a Super Heavy Aux and then use the Exalted Court stratagem to make it both a character and have a warlord trait?

I just verified with the Mortan Tradition on a couple reviews. It still looks cool. And it actually makes me want to explore using a Gallant. One of those suckers charging up the field with five attacks hitting on 2s with the Thunderstrike (+1 for Mortan, -1 for Thunderstrike on a 2+ WS) is going to be mean as hell. It does make me need to order another Thunderstrike Gauntlet off eBay, though.

Edit: Holy crap. All of the Thunderstrike Gauntlets on eBay disappeared overnight!

 ph34r wrote:
Gotcha. So while you could not have a Character knight without it being your actual Warlord in a Super Heavy Aux, you could still take a regular Knight in a Super Heavy Aux and then use the Exalted Court stratagem to make it both a character and have a warlord trait?

Exactly.

Coming in a bit late. Sanity check my understanding please:

1) A Lance needs 3 Questoris or Dominus or FW Knights of the same House or Freeblade to get +3 CP
2) That Lance also makes a Knight a character, but not a Warlord and thus, no Warlord Trait; you can choose to make that character your Warlord though as well as give them a Relic
3) You can make up to two Knights characters and grant them Warlord Traits with the Stratagem
4) You can give up to two Relics to your Knight characters with the Stratagem
5) You still get Household Traditions and access to their Relics and Stratagems in regular Super-heavy and Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments

@Suzuteo

1-4, yes. 5...I THINK so? Not 100% on that, though.

I see.

Do we have points for the Perceptor yet? The Las-Impulsor seems like a jack-of-all-trades weapon that pays for flexibility with half the range of other specialized weapons. It's basically a choice between 1) RFBC with half the range and -2c 2) TC with half the range, D6 shots and +3S.

Suzuteo wrote:
I see.

Do we have points for the Perceptor yet? The Las-Impulsor seems like a jack-of-all-trades weapon that pays for flexibility with half the range of other specialized weapons. It's basically a choice between 1) RFBC with half the range and -2c 2) TC with half the range, D6 shots and +3S.

415 with his Las-Impulsor, Reaper and 2 Stubbers.

Stubbers can be upgraded to Multi-lasers as well as (maybe?) Meltaguns and he can probably switch the Chainsword for the Gauntlet as usual.

He also grants re-roll 1s to nearby Armigers.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
I see.

Do we have points for the Perceptor yet? The Las-Impulsor seems like a jack-of-all-trades weapon that pays for flexibility with half the range of other specialized weapons. It's basically a choice between 1) RFBC with half the range and -2c 2) TC with half the range, D6 shots and +3S.

415 with his Las-Impulsor, Reaper and 2 Stubbers.

Stubbers can be upgraded to Multi-lasers as well as (maybe?) Meltaguns and he can probably switch the Chainsword for the Gauntlet as usual.

He also grants re-roll 1s to nearby Armigers.

How are you getting two stubbers on the Preceptor? It only has one slot for one, which can be exchanged for a Meltagun or a Multi-Laser.

The kit even just mounts the Las-Impulsor barrel to the same weapon shield as the Errant's Thermal Cannon.

Preceptors can't have two stubbers though.

So, I did a bunch of math to figure out how point efficient the Preceptor was compared to the Warden and Errant when run with a pair of Warglaives and came to the following conclusions:

In shooting:

With just shooting, the Preceptor and buffed Warglaives split the difference between the Warden and Errant (/w normal Warglaives) against GEQ and Orks, but are much less efficient than either against both MEQ and TEQ.

With just shooting, the Preceptor and buffed Warglaives are better than the Warden, and just behind the Errant (/w normal Warglaives) against vehicles and monsters.

In melee the Preceptor's buff is a straight upgrade over Wardens and Errants if running with Armigers; so over time, a combination of shooting and melee can make them more point efficient than either the Warden or Errant:

If engaging infantry, a Preceptor and a pair of Warglaives must engage in melee for just over 3 turns to be more efficient (in shooting and melee) than a Warden (/w normal Warglaives).

If engaging vehicles/monsters, a Preceptor and a pair of Warglaives must engage in melee for one to two turns to be more efficient (in shooting and melee) than an Errant (/w normal Warglaives).

More Armigers will skew these results more in the Preceptor's favor. Here's the math if someone wants to correct me:



I don't know how relevant these numbers are (someone check my math) but the Las-impulsor looks pretty and I don't think the Preceptor is all that bad.

The comparison I really want is 5 armigers versus 1 perceptor and 2 armigers. Or really, 5 armigers and a preceptor versus 8 armigers.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

415 with his Las-Impulsor, Reaper and 2 Stubbers.

Stubbers can be upgraded to Multi-lasers as well as (maybe?) Meltaguns and he can probably switch the Chainsword for the Gauntlet as usual.

He also grants re-roll 1s to nearby Armigers.

Ah. So he's steaming garbage that buffs mediocre units in a detachment that grants no CP? I mean, why would anyone take that over a Warden with Gauntlet?

Suzuteo wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

415 with his Las-Impulsor, Reaper and 2 Stubbers.

Stubbers can be upgraded to Multi-lasers as well as (maybe?) Meltaguns and he can probably switch the Chainsword for the Gauntlet as usual.

He also grants re-roll 1s to nearby Armigers.

Ah. So he's steaming garbage that buffs mediocre units in a detachment that grants no CP? I mean, why would anyone take that over a Warden with Gauntlet?

Except the Helverin is disgustingly good and having 2 of them firing a total of 8d3 S7 shots re-rolling 1s and the Las Impulsor is no joke either. You could even throw on the relic fist and make him the house with +1 to hit to make your Precept even better.

Can, can it just be Saturday? Like, now?


I’m enjoying the chat, and in multiple threads, but it’s no substitute for giving the Codex a damned good read in the pub!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, best Arnieesque one-liners for the Death Grip Stratagem. You’ll need one for each roll-off.

I’ve got a crush on you.

He’s feeling the pinch.

Excuse my fingers.

I’ve taken matters in hand

I’ve made a good fist of things

We can only play the Hand fate dealt us

Vices are bad for you

 casvalremdeikun wrote:


How are you getting two stubbers on the Preceptor? It only has one slot for one, which can be exchanged for a Meltagun or a Multi-Laser.

The kit even just mounts the Las-Impulsor barrel to the same weapon shield as the Errant's Thermal Cannon.

Dunno. Maybe the info is wrong.

It's the rumour for you to read in the rumour section. I don't have the book.

Further one-liner (pointing out such to prevent confusion)

Get a grip.

The digital age is wonderful


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can’t quite put my finger on it

You’re under the thumb

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Can, can it just be Saturday? Like, now?


I’m enjoying the chat, and in multiple threads, but it’s no substitute for giving the Codex a damned good read in the pub!

Likewise. I want my codex NOAW! In the meantime, I will be getting my first Knight ready to go. Probably as a Mortan Errant or Paladin. Probably an Errant since I really just don't like the Paladin.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

415 with his Las-Impulsor, Reaper and 2 Stubbers.

Stubbers can be upgraded to Multi-lasers as well as (maybe?) Meltaguns and he can probably switch the Chainsword for the Gauntlet as usual.

He also grants re-roll 1s to nearby Armigers.

Ah. So he's steaming garbage that buffs mediocre units in a detachment that grants no CP? I mean, why would anyone take that over a Warden with Gauntlet?

Except the Helverin is disgustingly good and having 2 of them firing a total of 8d3 S7 shots re-rolling 1s and the Las Impulsor is no joke either. You could even throw on the relic fist and make him the house with +1 to hit to make your Precept even better.

Probably this is the intention.

You can get a Preceptor and 3 Helverins with the odd upgrade for about 1000 points, a Guard Battalion for 200 and you have another 800 for a Warden and an Errant/Gallant or something to fill one 3-big-Knight Detachment with the Preceptor in 2000 points.

If you want a Dominus, you'll probably need to drop a Helverin or the Guard (if you want to stick with 3 big Knights).

Sounds like a reasonable Knight list to have some fun with, as Knight lists go.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:


How are you getting two stubbers on the Preceptor? It only has one slot for one, which can be exchanged for a Meltagun or a Multi-Laser.

The kit even just mounts the Las-Impulsor barrel to the same weapon shield as the Errant's Thermal Cannon.

Dunno. Maybe the info is wrong.

It's the rumour for you to read in the rumour section. I don't have the book.

It's not. I have the datasheet.


One Stubbers/Meltagun/Multi-Laser.

Does anyone know how much the multi-laser is in the codex? It's 10 in the AM codex but they only pay 8 for a heavy bolter, so maybe 12 points? If it's 10 points even my list could just squeeze that upgrade in.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Further one-liner (pointing out such to prevent confusion)

Get a grip.

The digital age is wonderful


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can’t quite put my finger on it

You’re under the thumb

I'll knock this out hand over fist

Let me give you a hand.

*Facepalm*
You guys are getting out of hand with these puns.

There's an end point, but I just can't put my finger on it.

So I read through this and I saw someone mention the super heavy auxiliary. If I take a single knight in the auxiliary detachment, it can still get a household, right? And with a strat, I can give it a warlord trait and relic?

For some reason, the way the previewers are phrasing this, I am a bit confused until I read it myself.

Rajah wrote:
So I read through this and I saw someone mention the super heavy auxiliary. If I take a single knight in the auxiliary detachment, it can still get a household, right? And with a strat, I can give it a warlord trait and relic?

For some reason, the way the previewers are phrasing this, I am a bit confused until I read it myself.

Yes to 2nds, 1st is not confirmed either way. If codex has no special mention then yes but it's POSSIBLE they have something similar to IG that specifically says no. But so far nobody with codex has(at least as far as I have been able to follow) said one way or another regarding that.

Rajah wrote:
So I read through this and I saw someone mention the super heavy auxiliary. If I take a single knight in the auxiliary detachment, it can still get a household, right? And with a strat, I can give it a warlord trait and relic?

For some reason, the way the previewers are phrasing this, I am a bit confused until I read it myself.

Well there comes answer to that. Seems auxiliary does NOT get tradition.

tneva82 wrote:
Well there comes answer to that. Seems auxiliary does NOT get tradition.

Exactly

Well that's a bummer. Seems that applies to freeblades as well :-/ Next I need to know if you can make all knights freeblade! If yes thats what I might go for just for laughs!

tneva82 wrote:
Well that's a bummer. Seems that applies to freeblades as well :-/ Next I need to know if you can make all knights freeblade! If yes thats what I might go for just for laughs!

What, to drive your opponent insane by all the dice rolling before play starts for determining their Qualities and Burdens, and all of the Leadership rolls?

It does seem like the only way to get quasi-Household benefits though in a SH Aux Detachment.

Oh damn. So one knight in a super heavy aux detachment gets use of stratagems... but can't be a character, can't take any relics and ndoesn't get a household benefit/freeblade quality

My lone knight has a sad face. Maybe I will not buy this book after all.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well that's a bummer. Seems that applies to freeblades as well :-/ Next I need to know if you can make all knights freeblade! If yes thats what I might go for just for laughs!

What, to drive your opponent insane by all the dice rolling before play starts for determining their Qualities and Burdens, and all of the Leadership rolls?

It does seem like the only way to get quasi-Household benefits though in a SH Aux Detachment.

3-4 models ain't that bad. Compare to orks that's easy! Timing wise I think my opponents prefer knights over orks ;-)

But what you mean by SH aux det? Freeblade is listed on that page so I assumed no solo freeblade either. though maybe THAT is odd from fluff...

Freeblades can never get the traditions anyway and seem to be the go-to option if you just want to include that one knight in your army. Otherwise, you are running knight + 2 armigers for cheapest house detachment possible even if that means not getting the CP for it.

So super heavy auxiliary - you need to take the Freeblade.

So that's possible? Seeing free blade was listed in page showing rules knight detachments excluding auxiliary gets I thought no freeblade either in aux det.

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well that's a bummer. Seems that applies to freeblades as well :-/ Next I need to know if you can make all knights freeblade! If yes thats what I might go for just for laughs!

What, to drive your opponent insane by all the dice rolling before play starts for determining their Qualities and Burdens, and all of the Leadership rolls?

It does seem like the only way to get quasi-Household benefits though in a SH Aux Detachment.

3-4 models ain't that bad. Compare to orks that's easy! Timing wise I think my opponents prefer knights over orks ;-)

But what you mean by SH aux det? Freeblade is listed on that page so I assumed no solo freeblade either. though maybe THAT is odd from fluff...

Yeah, I was exaggerating, but don't think for a second someone won't bitch and complain saying you are just trying to make the game take longer.

I guess I don't really know about SH Aux and Freeblades. I really want to know the answer as well for my Freeblade (Gerantius).

But you could take a lone Knight as a SH Aux Detachment and then use Exalted Court for 1 CP to make it a character and give it a warlord trait, then give it a relic for another 1 CP (or 0 CP if you haven't taken any others) as far as i understand?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Yeah, I was exaggerating, but don't think for a second someone won't bitch and complain saying you are just trying to make the game take longer.

I guess I don't really know about SH Aux and Freeblades. I really want to know the answer as well for my Freeblade (Gerantius).

Well I haven't had at least open hostility for playing with orks so I'm hopeful Maybe helps that I am clearly doing my best to speed up the game as much as I can. I don't spend tons of time thinking my actions nor do I do any weird(it's important moment so I roll these 10 saves one at a time) things. Well I CAN see cool factor on that and on casual no-time-limit situation I'm game for those(last sunday when my gorkanaut caused 10 wounds to GK grandmaster on his suit and he needed to fail 3 saves to die he rolled saves in pair. Didn't mind that and seeing it was 5vs5 apoc didn't even really slow down overall game so I had fun watching it as well) but when there's time limit for christ sake just roll them all at once!

But all freeblades gives some very interesting comboes. Would need cards for those abilities and preferably multiple copies so I have duplicates for duplicates. That or quickly write them down.

tneva82 wrote:
So that's possible? Seeing free blade was listed in page showing rules knight detachments excluding auxiliary gets I thought no freeblade either in aux det.

In the GW preview from https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/31/imperial-knights-building-your-champion/, they said:

"The best thing is that each Freeblade can be your Warlord AND can take Relics, making them the perfect choice if you’re looking to add a lone Knight to your army and offering you huge freedom when customising them."

Super heavy auxiliary does not get to nominate a character or get a household tradition, but Freeblades bypass all of that by allowing you to make them a character, warlord, and take relics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slashy McTalons wrote:
But you could take a lone Knight as a SH Aux Detachment and then use Exalted Court for 1 CP to make it a character and give it a warlord trait, then give it a relic for another 1 CP (or 0 CP if you haven't taken any others) as far as i understand?

I believe so. Just no house tradition. You're probably better off taking a freeblade.

Rajah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
So that's possible? Seeing free blade was listed in page showing rules knight detachments excluding auxiliary gets I thought no freeblade either in aux det.

In the GW preview from https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/31/imperial-knights-building-your-champion/, they said:

"The best thing is that each Freeblade can be your Warlord AND can take Relics, making them the perfect choice if you’re looking to add a lone Knight to your army and offering you huge freedom when customising them."

Super heavy auxiliary does not get to nominate a character or get a household tradition, but Freeblades bypass all of that by allowing you to make them a character, warlord, and take relics.

Oh groovy. Though technically speaking that's true statement even if they don't get freeblade abilities/burdens. But let's just say "yes" for now.

And I noticed they spoke about "each" so unless it's 1 freeblade detachment rule or something guess all freeblades could be possibility...

DOwe still have the relic ion shield? I run a lancer with it to rep my man BARRON ROLAND!!!!!!!!
Also is there abook for FW knight rules? I just have saved pdfs.
Cadmus strides to war once again!

So I'm now 700€ deep in this release haha (God thanks online retailers, that -20% came in handy for me..)
I was waiting for Renegade to return for a looong time, and I can already smell the small run that will end up with the preceptor kit going for preorder at 105£ and replacing both the warden kit, the errant kit and the Renegade box.

Anyway, has anyone run the numbers for carapace weapons PPW against flyers ? I keep hearing that the IronsStorm is basically useless and the StormSpear come on top of even the Icarus on PPW against every target including what I face the most in my meta : Flyers (be it antigrav tanks, bikes, venoms... )

tneva82 wrote:
So that's possible? Seeing free blade was listed in page showing rules knight detachments excluding auxiliary gets I thought no freeblade either in aux det.

That entry is simply stating that including a Freeblade in a Knight detachment doesn't stop other Knights from using Households and that they don't benefit from Households. It doesn't mention Qualities and as such, there's no implications there that Aux Freeblade can't use them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
DOwe still have the relic ion shield? I run a lancer with it to rep my man BARRON ROLAND!!!!!!!!
Also is there abook for FW knight rules? I just have saved pdfs.
Cadmus strides to war once again!

FW Knight rules are in Imperial Armour - Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum.

So you cannot take a unit with Freeblade abilities as a single unit in a non-Knight army?

Isn't that kinda what a Freeblade is meant to do???

tneva82 wrote:
Well that's a bummer. Seems that applies to freeblades as well :-/ Next I need to know if you can make all knights freeblade! If yes thats what I might go for just for laughs!

You can! I asked on the Community page and they said we’re able to.

Has the complete lists of Freeblade burdens and benefits been previewed somewhere?

 Silentz wrote:
Oh damn. So one knight in a super heavy aux detachment gets use of stratagems... but can't be a character, can't take any relics and ndoesn't get a household benefit/freeblade quality

My lone knight has a sad face. Maybe I will not buy this book after all.

if they can use strats you can make them a character and give them a trait

Klone12 wrote:
So I'm now 700€ deep in this release haha (God thanks online retailers, that -20% came in handy for me..)
I was waiting for Renegade to return for a looong time, and I can already smell the small run that will end up with the preceptor kit going for preorder at 105£ and replacing both the warden kit, the errant kit and the Renegade box.

Anyway, has anyone run the numbers for carapace weapons PPW against flyers ? I keep hearing that the IronsStorm is basically useless and the StormSpear come on top of even the Icarus on PPW against every target including what I face the most in my meta : Flyers (be it antigrav tanks, bikes, venoms... )

Where did you go to get 20% off?

 Buzzdady wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well that's a bummer. Seems that applies to freeblades as well :-/ Next I need to know if you can make all knights freeblade! If yes thats what I might go for just for laughs!

You can! I asked on the Community page and they said we’re able to.

I think the Freeblades info in the pic above is aimed at explaining how Freeblades interact with Household Traditions. It's definitely not the "full" Freeblade rules, which is probably where they let you take them in Aux Super Heavy.

Have we ever come to a consensus on whether or not we can take 2 different houses in a single lance/super heavy detachment?

I don't want the house traits, but the house specific warlord traits and the relics for imperialis vs maechanicus definitely leave me wanting to take knights of two different houses in the same detachments, probably with an armiger.

I know I'm not getting CP, but I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere that this is possible. It'd be like running ultramarines and white scars in the same detachment.

Although....CRAP now that I think about it....I don't think they share any common keywords if I take one that is a mechanicus house and one that is an imperialis house :(

All I want is the relic flamer and the relic plasma gun in the same detachment!

 Apple Peel wrote:

Klone12 wrote:
So I'm now 700€ deep in this release haha (God thanks online retailers, that -20% came in handy for me..)
I was waiting for Renegade to return for a looong time, and I can already smell the small run that will end up with the preceptor kit going for preorder at 105£ and replacing both the warden kit, the errant kit and the Renegade box.

Anyway, has anyone run the numbers for carapace weapons PPW against flyers ? I keep hearing that the IronsStorm is basically useless and the StormSpear come on top of even the Icarus on PPW against every target including what I face the most in my meta : Flyers (be it antigrav tanks, bikes, venoms... )

Where did you go to get 20% off?

Wayland Games

People still shop at Wayland?

 Buzzdady wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well that's a bummer. Seems that applies to freeblades as well :-/ Next I need to know if you can make all knights freeblade! If yes thats what I might go for just for laughs!

You can! I asked on the Community page and they said we’re able to.

You mean the Facebook? Bear in mind they have a disclaimer saying they can't actually tell us rules (basically telling us not to trust them).

That said, HOPEFULLY that statement is right. We'll know soon. It's Tuesday!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
People still shop at Wayland?

As long as the stuff is in stock they've been pretty okay and a lot cheaper for me compared to locally. If it isn't...STAY AWAY

Now the bank transfer payment option seems to be gone, though*, and my CC doesn't work with their payment provider and getting ridiculous Paypal conversion rates ticks me off, so I ordered the Renegade box domestically for more.

*whyyy

Renegade for me will be 124 bucks. 20 % off base and another 20% off order over200

gendoikari87 wrote:
Renegade for me will be 124 bucks. 20 % off base and another 20% off order over200

WHERE!!!!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
People still shop at Wayland?

Yeah, Dark Sphere or The Outpost for me. WargamesUK seems reliable once they get around to updating their site with new stuff, but they really need to work on streamlining that on the back-end; last three preorder weekends I bothered to check, they didn’t even have the stuff available by the end of Saturday, much less by 10am like everyone else.
Waylaid is just no, not after last time.

I’ve always bought from Gaming Figures, I’ve never had any problems with them.

Anyway do we know if there’s changes in the power levels I know armigers went from 12 to 9 but what about the others?

Two things:

Once again, does anyone know (or remember from last time) how long the Renegades box set will be available, i.e. should I be in a rush?

How many boxes are people buying? I failed to grab one last time so I might grab a couple this time.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Two things:

Once again, does anyone know (or remember from last time) how long the Renegades box set will be available, i.e. should I be in a rush?

How many boxes are people buying? I failed to grab one last time so I might grab a couple this time.

The question was asked and the answer, basically, was "longer than last time".

 aracersss wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Renegade for me will be 124 bucks. 20 % off base and another 20% off order over200

WHERE!!!!

flgs in Ohio


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Two things:

Once again, does anyone know (or remember from last time) how long the Renegades box set will be available, i.e. should I be in a rush?

How many boxes are people buying? I failed to grab one last time so I might grab a couple this time.

like yesterday it goes fast

gendoikari87 wrote:

 aracersss wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Renegade for me will be 124 bucks. 20 % off base and another 20% off order over200

WHERE!!!!

flgs in Ohio


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Two things:

Once again, does anyone know (or remember from last time) how long the Renegades box set will be available, i.e. should I be in a rush?

How many boxes are people buying? I failed to grab one last time so I might grab a couple this time.

like yesterday it goes fast

Yeah, I mean, jesus christ. I'd order from them and pay them to ship it to me. Lmao

 Cephalobeard wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 aracersss wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Renegade for me will be 124 bucks. 20 % off base and another 20% off order over200

WHERE!!!!

flgs in Ohio


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Two things:

Once again, does anyone know (or remember from last time) how long the Renegades box set will be available, i.e. should I be in a rush?

How many boxes are people buying? I failed to grab one last time so I might grab a couple this time.

like yesterday it goes fast

Yeah, I mean, jesus christ. I'd order from them and pay them to ship it to me. Lmao

dont think they are allowed to do that. They have a special deal worked out which is why I won’t give specific Ames as I’m not sure how much gw is in the know or how they managed it

I assumed as much. I've heard of a few other locations able to do the same, but are also not allowed to ship.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

 aracersss wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Renegade for me will be 124 bucks. 20 % off base and another 20% off order over200

WHERE!!!!

flgs in Ohio


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Two things:

Once again, does anyone know (or remember from last time) how long the Renegades box set will be available, i.e. should I be in a rush?

How many boxes are people buying? I failed to grab one last time so I might grab a couple this time.

like yesterday it goes fast

Yeah, I mean, jesus christ. I'd order from them and pay them to ship it to me. Lmao

dont think they are allowed to do that. They have a special deal worked out which is why I won’t give specific Ames as I’m not sure how much gw is in the know or how they managed it

Where in Ohio? I'm near canton, and would totally take advantage if possible.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
People still shop at Wayland?

Yeah, Dark Sphere or The Outpost for me. WargamesUK seems reliable once they get around to updating their site with new stuff, but they really need to work on streamlining that on the back-end; last three preorder weekends I bothered to check, they didn’t even have the stuff available by the end of Saturday, much less by 10am like everyone else.
Waylaid is just no, not after last time.

Wargames is super reliable and great to buy from... The problem now though, is that due to disagreements with GW and GWs way of treating and working with partners, they are no longer stocking any GW products.

It might change in the future and go back to stocking them, but, it is currently not likely (as the decision was made only a couple of months ago).

Kdash wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
People still shop at Wayland?

Yeah, Dark Sphere or The Outpost for me. WargamesUK seems reliable once they get around to updating their site with new stuff, but they really need to work on streamlining that on the back-end; last three preorder weekends I bothered to check, they didn’t even have the stuff available by the end of Saturday, much less by 10am like everyone else.
Waylaid is just no, not after last time.

Wargames is super reliable and great to buy from... The problem now though, is that due to disagreements with GW and GWs way of treating and working with partners, they are no longer stocking any GW products.

It might change in the future and go back to stocking them, but, it is currently not likely (as the decision was made only a couple of months ago).

Huh. I had no idea… explains why all the GW stuff on their site is out of stock or like one item left.

Does anyone have information about power level values for helverin and that terrain feature? I have knight Paladin painted in cadmus colours, but now I m propably changing for hawkshroud.

Terrain is 80 pts so probably pl4 but why you want that junk anyway? Knights wouldn't benefit from it even if it was free. Ironically it's better for non knight armies

Is there any info on whether FW Knights get access to the new stuff? Could I make my Lancer a Freeblade for example?

 mrhappyface wrote:
Is there any info on whether FW Knights get access to the new stuff? Could I make my Lancer a Freeblade for example?

From what I've heard the answer is "no" but there is probably going to be an errata to Imperial Armour released with the FAQ for the codex that changes this.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Is there any info on whether FW Knights get access to the new stuff? Could I make my Lancer a Freeblade for example?

No,

but in a few years time when the appropriate book is re-released they might consider it (but only if new rules have superseded them in the meantime)

I'm thinking the following for 2k points: (purchase 2 extra relics)
House Taranis: super-heavy detachment
Castellan w/ 2 shoulder cannons (Warlord w/ 4++ and Cawl's Wrath)
Warden w/ 20 pt rocketpod (with fancy avenger)
Galliant (with fancy fist)

House Taranis: aux detachment
2 Warglaves

Mechanicus Graia: Battalion
2 enginseer
3 ranger units

Seems pretty good...

 LunarSol wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Is there any info on whether FW Knights get access to the new stuff? Could I make my Lancer a Freeblade for example?

From what I've heard the answer is "no" but there is probably going to be an errata to Imperial Armour released with the FAQ for the codex that changes this.

Don't worry, one week and FW surely will drop some FAQ written by intern in 10 minutes allowing all Knights with zero thought to balance or fluff. You know, like standard infiltration team of all RG descendants everywhere is pair of vewy vewy quiet, wabbit hunting Leviathans or how standard Codex company consists of six Fire Raptors with Chapter Master and lieutenant standing under them waving pom poms to cheer them up. Fluffy!

What? Both units are impossibly rare relics few chapters ever saw, never mind posses one? And the SM stratagems were written with Codex units in mind, not with whatever broken gak FW put together with 2+ across the board and suite of weapons making Baneblades blush? Who cares, we need to one-up Eldar and Tau somehow, making it all okay, eh?

I have decided to adjust my Knights a little. Rather than build Gerantius, I will build the Obsidian Knight(especially since I have his transfers). Instead of a Gallant, I will build an Errant(magnetized to take all the Carapace weapons). I will still build my two Wardens with Thunderstrike Gauntlets and Stormspear Rocket Pods(magnetized for everything though), and a Knight Valiant with two Siegebreaker Cannons and two Siegebreaker Missiles.

I can always swap the Errant's Thermal Cannon for one of the Warden's Thunderstrike Gauntlets and have a Gallant and a Crusader.

 luke1705 wrote:
Have we ever come to a consensus on whether or not we can take 2 different houses in a single lance/super heavy detachment?

I don't want the house traits, but the house specific warlord traits and the relics for imperialis vs maechanicus definitely leave me wanting to take knights of two different houses in the same detachments, probably with an armiger.

I know I'm not getting CP, but I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere that this is possible. It'd be like running ultramarines and white scars in the same detachment.

Although....CRAP now that I think about it....I don't think they share any common keywords if I take one that is a mechanicus house and one that is an imperialis house :(

All I want is the relic flamer and the relic plasma gun in the same detachment!

From what I've seen, yes you can, just like other armies can. Example, you can have a Chaos Space Marines detachment with mixed legions in it, they won't get their Legion Tactics but will still unlock stratagems, warlord traits, relics, etc because it would still be a Chaos Space Marine detachment. The relevant page for Imperial Knights seems to have a "Imperial Knight detachments" wording so you should be good to go, and per your question, they do share the Imperial Knights faction keyword (can be seen in the new datasheets if you check a codex review). Honestly going that route seems like the best way forward for Knights if you're running a Lance and multiple different types of Knights, the Valiant and Castellan in particularly needing Imperialis and Mechanicus respectively for their weapon relics is a right pain. If I'm horribly wrong, someone please correct me!

Personally I'm trying to figure out whether going all-in on a Castellan/Valiant duo + one Questoris Knight is worthwhile, and whether having two Dominus and one Questoris Knight is better than having one Dominus and three Questoris Knights (all in the context of keeping points spare for a Guard battalion - can't fit two Dominus and two Questoris in with a Guard battalion).

 mrhappyface wrote:

Except the Helverin is disgustingly good and having 2 of them firing a total of 8d3 S7 shots re-rolling 1s and the Las Impulsor is no joke either. You could even throw on the relic fist and make him the house with +1 to hit to make your Precept even better.

Sorry, I just noticed this response. Disgustingly good? Have you done the math? Helverins are mediocre at best when compared to an Icarus Crawler or the vanilla BC Leman Russ. The Crawler doesn't even need to use a stratagem to outperform him against a variety of flying targets. Plus, they don't count in Knight Lances.

Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

 Irbis wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Is there any info on whether FW Knights get access to the new stuff? Could I make my Lancer a Freeblade for example?

From what I've heard the answer is "no" but there is probably going to be an errata to Imperial Armour released with the FAQ for the codex that changes this.

Don't worry, one week and FW surely will drop some FAQ written by intern in 10 minutes allowing all Knights with zero thought to balance or fluff. You know, like standard infiltration team of all RG descendants everywhere is pair of vewy vewy quiet, wabbit hunting Leviathans or how standard Codex company consists of six Fire Raptors with Chapter Master and lieutenant standing under them waving pom poms to cheer them up. Fluffy!

What? Both units are impossibly rare relics few chapters ever saw, never mind posses one? And the SM stratagems were written with Codex units in mind, not with whatever broken gak FW put together with 2+ across the board and suite of weapons making Baneblades blush? Who cares, we need to one-up Eldar and Tau somehow, making it all okay, eh?

If you want to see broken stuff look no further than GW codex. At least unlike GW Forge World has game designers who a) can write balanced stuff b) are interested in writing balanced stuff. GW? They make changes not for balance but for money.

If you want balanced 40k ban GW codex, allow only FW units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 drazz wrote:
Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

Doesn't. They have too many wounds for character protection to kick in.

Someone was talking about running Guilliman with a bunch of character knights. In that case it would matter as you could than shoot Papa Smurf.

 Eldarain wrote:
Someone was talking about running Guilliman with a bunch of character knights. In that case it would matter as you could than shoot Papa Smurf.

Can't do it in one detachment. I suppose you can do a SH Auxiliary Detachment for Guilliman.

Oh good point. Guess better to have armiger or helsinger or non-character regular knight there then.

edit: Except you only ignore other characters with W charasteristic less than 10. Character with 24W is NOT ignored.

If freeblades are by detachment and not army, was thinking of running:

SH detachment:
Gallant: House Krast
Gallant: House Krast
Warden: Warlord, Relic Avenger Gatling Gun, Freeblade

SH Aux:
Crusader: Freeblade

SH Aux:
Errant: Freeblade

urzaplanewalker wrote:
I'm thinking the following for 2k points: (purchase 2 extra relics)
House Taranis: super-heavy detachment
Castellan w/ 2 shoulder cannons (Warlord w/ 4++ and Cawl's Wrath)
Warden w/ 20 pt rocketpod (with fancy avenger)
Galliant (with fancy fist)

House Taranis: aux detachment
2 Warglaves

Mechanicus Graia: Battalion
2 enginseer
3 ranger units

Seems pretty good...

Why would you put the warglaives in an aux detachment? A SHD is 3-5 LOW slots and it's the same house so just put them in there, no? Otherwise that list seems like it could be pretty strong to me

Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

 drazz wrote:
Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

Not at all.

- Characters with 10 wounds or more can always be targeted, so people will be able to shoot your Knights as always.
- Characters with 10 wounds or more, however, do also shield other characters. Mortarion DOES prevent you from shooting a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince, a Hive Tyrant does prevent you from targeting a Broodlord, etc.. thus a Character-Knight will prevent targeting a Primaris Psyker or Company Commander just like a non-Character Knight would.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

Is the no Household thing confirmed or is that speculation based on Baneblades? Seems like it would take away a lot of the flavour of adding Knights to your army if they didnt get a household.

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

Yes. Screenshot showing relevant page was show few pages before. All knights.

A Super Heavy Detachment can fit up to five LoW slots, right? So just shove the armigers in that. You had the same House down anyway.

tneva82 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

Yes. Screenshot showing relevant page was show few pages before. All knights.

Yikes, that's a real bummer.

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

thats not correct. you get the household + stratagems if you use a super heavy aux.

you can even chose a household/chapter/dynasty for a aux support detach.

 _Ness wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

thats not correct. you get the household + stratagems if you use a super heavy aux.

you can even chose a household/chapter/dynasty for a aux support detach.

You don't get household tradition for super heavy auxiary detachment. Strategems are still usable but for example the "wounds doubled for degration" does not apply for superheavy auxiliary.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 drazz wrote:
Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

Not at all.

- Characters with 10 wounds or more can always be targeted, so people will be able to shoot your Knights as always.
- Characters with 10 wounds or more, however, do also shield other characters. Mortarion DOES prevent you from shooting a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince, a Hive Tyrant does prevent you from targeting a Broodlord, etc.. thus a Character-Knight will prevent targeting a Primaris Psyker or Company Commander just like a non-Character Knight would.

i believe this was changed in the big faq but characters get heroic intervention

tneva82 wrote:

 _Ness wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

thats not correct. you get the household + stratagems if you use a super heavy aux.

you can even chose a household/chapter/dynasty for a aux support detach.

You don't get household tradition for super heavy auxiary detachment. Strategems are still usable but for example the "wounds doubled for degration" does not apply for superheavy auxiliary.

yea i overlooked it, my bad.

well thats a bummer. guess they want to increase their sells on the warglaives. 2 bad. (it doesent even make sense)

If they wanted to increase sells on warglaives they would allow them for CP...

But it actually makes sense in that IG has same limit. Why knights would get but IG not? Whether IG restriction makes any sense is another thing of course. Personally both limitations should go away.

well they are allower for cp, just not in the Lance-Detach. a super heavy still gives you +3.

 _Ness wrote:
well they are allower for cp, just not in the Lance-Detach. a super heavy still gives you +3.

They won't get Household abilities if they do.

well f me. i thought a knight lance is a seperate detachment. so you have to pick 3biggies to get +3cp.
but you get the use household if you use 2 warglaives + 1 big (or 3 warglaives) ?!

 _Ness wrote:
well f me. i thought a knight lance is a seperate detachment. so you have to pick 3biggies to get +3cp.
but you get the use household if you use 2 warglaives + 1 big (or 3 warglaives) ?!

No. It is just a Super Heavy Detachment.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 _Ness wrote:
well f me. i thought a knight lance is a seperate detachment. so you have to pick 3biggies to get +3cp.
but you get the use household if you use 2 warglaives + 1 big (or 3 warglaives) ?!

No. It is just a Super Heavy Detachment.

so? its still a knight lance.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 drazz wrote:
Bit of a question.

With knights now able to be characters, how does that affect targeting priorities?

Not at all.

- Characters with 10 wounds or more can always be targeted, so people will be able to shoot your Knights as always.
- Characters with 10 wounds or more, however, do also shield other characters. Mortarion DOES prevent you from shooting a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince, a Hive Tyrant does prevent you from targeting a Broodlord, etc.. thus a Character-Knight will prevent targeting a Primaris Psyker or Company Commander just like a non-Character Knight would.

i believe this was changed in the big faq but characters get heroic intervention

Sunny is actually correct as per the big FAQ – which I didn’t realise until I saw his post and decided to check.

An enemy Character with a Wounds characteristic of less than 10 can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if it is both visible to the firing model and it is the closest enemy unit to the firing model. Ignore other enemy Characters with a Wounds characteristics of less than 10 when determining if the target is the closest enemy unit to the firing model.

This means that if any other enemy units (other than other Characters with a Wounds characteristics of less than 10) are closer, whether they are visible or not, then the enemy Character cannot be targeted

Due to Morty having more than 10 wounds, it means the new “characters can’t hide characters” rule is ignored in this instance.

I certainly have played this wrong when using Magnus recently!

 _Ness wrote:
well they are allower for cp, just not in the Lance-Detach. a super heavy still gives you +3.

Auxiliary gives 0. Knight lance doesn't look at all to be optional. So if you make it imperial knight(can you take knights and NOT have it imperial knight?) it's lance. If it's not imperial knights then no tradition, no strategems, nothing but 3 CP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 _Ness wrote:
well f me. i thought a knight lance is a seperate detachment. so you have to pick 3biggies to get +3cp.
but you get the use household if you use 2 warglaives + 1 big (or 3 warglaives) ?!

No. It is just a Super Heavy Detachment.

For that to work out they cannot be imperial knight detachment. apart from if that's even possible you are then ruling yourself out of traditions, strategems, warlord traits and relics for sake of 3CP.

hmmm.

lets sum it up.

warglaives = imperial knights.

a super heavy detach gets the household + lance rule.

the lance rule says that you only get the +3 cp if you use big knights.

so if i use 3 warglaives, i get no cp, but the household rules do apply.

 _Ness wrote:
hmmm.

lets sum it up.

warglaives = imperial knights.

a super heavy detach gets the household + lance rule.

the lance rule says that you only get the +3 cp if you use big knights.

so if i use 3 warglaives, i get no cp, but the household rules do apply.

Correct. 3 warglaives alone will be getting households, strategems etc. If the lance rule did not exclude character rule from warglaives(like strategem excludes) also character warglaive(would be only way to get them). But no CP.

The super heavy aux thingie doesn't bother me that much as it's already done but the CP restriction is really weird. I could understand not allowing for armiger only but big knight+smaller knights would seem sensible. And can't recall any other faction with similar rule.

tneva82 wrote:


Correct. 3 warglaives alone will be getting households, strategems etc. If the lance rule did not exclude character rule from warglaives(like strategem excludes) also character warglaive(would be only way to get them). But no CP.

The super heavy aux thingie doesn't bother me that much as it's already done but the CP restriction is really weird. I could understand not allowing for armiger only but big knight+smaller knights would seem sensible. And can't recall any other faction with similar rule.

It really should be that 1 big knight per detachment unlocks CP. Pure knights wouldn't be able to get more than 6CP plus battleforged at 2000 points anyways. 3x gallants + 3x warglaives + 3xhelverins is more than 2000 points so pure knights would be hard capped at 9CP. That's a decent enough amount where we wouldn't always see a guard battalion though.

I'm pretty upset about that but have mailed GW and asked about it. Hopefully they'll change that in the IK FAQ but I'm not holding my breath. If they alter the rules the way that GW sold armigers to us just three months ago would no longer be a lie either.

Can someone confirm if you can get a Freeblade in a non-Knight army that has Freeblade abilities?

 Crazyterran wrote:
If freeblades are by detachment and not army, was thinking of running:

SH detachment:
Gallant: House Krast
Gallant: House Krast
Warden: Warlord, Relic Avenger Gatling Gun, Freeblade

SH Aux:
Crusader: Freeblade

SH Aux:
Errant: Freeblade

 ph34r wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Not to mention, putting them in an Auxiliary Detachment means they don't get a House Tradition.

Is that true? Does that apply to Armigers and Knights both?

Yes. Screenshot showing relevant page was show few pages before. All knights.

Yikes, that's a real bummer.

It looks like you can't take a Freeblade in an Auxiliary detachment either.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1950/751594.page#10009559

IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Detachments (excluding Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments) gain the following abilities:
Knight Lances
...
Household Traditions
...
Freeblades

However, because the Qualities and Burdens are not listed here, there is hope that the FAQ will clarify the matter and let us take Freeblades in auxiliaries.

Oops, wrong thread.

Suzuteo wrote:
However, because the Qualities and Burdens are not listed here, there is hope that the FAQ will clarify the matter and let us take Freeblades in auxiliaries.

Yeah, this is really stupid. Knights noted for working alone can't, in fact, be taken alone? Wut?

I feel both this book and DW were written by pair of guys, one adding amazing, new, flavorful stuff and one attempting to sabotage it (or simply being incompetent) with rules shoddily trying to rigidly conform to exceptionally narrow and singular vision of fluff from some obscure source, by ruining armies that dare to not agree with it...

 Irbis wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
However, because the Qualities and Burdens are not listed here, there is hope that the FAQ will clarify the matter and let us take Freeblades in auxiliaries.

Yeah, this is really stupid. Knights noted for working alone can't, in fact, be taken alone? Wut?

I feel both this book and DW were written by pair of guys, one adding amazing, new, flavorful stuff and one attempting to sabotage it (or simply being incompetent) with rules shoddily trying to rigidly conform to exceptionally narrow and singular vision of fluff from some obscure source, by ruining armies that dare to not agree with it...

No freeblade qualities and burdens would be stupid but not confirmed. House traditions I never expected to get on auxiliary. IG doesn't, why would knights?

tneva82 wrote:
No freeblade qualities and burdens would be stupid but not confirmed. House traditions I never expected to get on auxiliary. IG doesn't, why would knights?

There is a big difference, here, though. IG is massed military working in units and formations, Knights are by definition singular and while they do work in lances and courts, the fluff is full of a single Knight being dispatched to do X. See both Renegade games, for one. This is more akin to taking SM captain in HQ detachment, he gets the Chapter trait, and Knights should too, IMO.

I can understand if it's balance issue (Why, though? You can take a single household knight in SH detachment no problem...) but as a counterpoint I'd say it's a really badly thought out one if so, IG or Eldar can take a superheavy with a trait using minimal tax in supreme HQ detachment (that, let's be real, is not even a tax, both can always use more mook HQ models) so Knights being gimped there would be dumb, too.

Well just made my first forgeworld purchase

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/House-Terryn-Upgrade-Kit

gendoikari87 wrote:
Well just made my first forgeworld purchase

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/House-Terryn-Upgrade-Kit

Good choice. I wish they would make those for the other major houses too. I need Mortan stuff!

Someone at work saw me looking at this thread. They asked what all this was, as they were confused by the pics. My simple reply: "Imagine if a Goth kid designed crude Gundam". Surprisingly they totally got it and accepted it. Lol

Element Games in the UK have changed the availability date for Renegade and the codex to June 15th. That typically means GW are struggling to supply enough stock to cover all the FLGS pre-orders.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Someone at work saw me looking at this thread. They asked what all this was, as they were confused by the pics. My simple reply: "Imagine if a Goth kid designed crude Gundam". Surprisingly they totally got it and accepted it. Lol

as a recovering goth otaku I canconcurr

So, I've read lots of the threads and codex pages shared, but need some clarification on the Knight Lance. I'm getting the codex Sat, but also have an escalation league game that day. I'm taking 1 armiger alongside my AdMech, as it'll be the start of my knight army.

Based on my understanding, would my lone armiger be taken in a Knight Lance superheavy detachment as an ally to my Admech? If so, would I be able to use house traits and strategems on it? I could potentially make it a character + trait+ relic with strategems, but mainly want to see if I get a house trait.

Knight Lance: Any time you puts Knights in a Super Heavy Detachment, you need 3 Questoris or bigger to get the CP. You also get one character (though, I'm uncertain on the clarification that the character needs to be a big knight, but I would make that assumption).

Otherwise, any detachment that has Knights still gets to use Knights rules; Households, traits, strats.

In order to have a relic, you need to have a warlord. In order to have a warlord, you need to have a character. In order to make a Knight a character, you need either a Knight Lance or a 1 CP strat: Exhaulted Court.

At least, that is my understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So, 3 big Knights gets you one Character (in order to get a warlord). The detatchment gets 3 CP. Extra Armigers can be put into this detatchment.

A big knight with armigers can be a character as the detatchment gets a character. But, gets no CP for the detatchment.

A lone knight in an auxiliary detachment can be a character (warlord) for the cost of 1 CP. No CP given.

All versions listed above are Battleforged and get their households, strats, and traits.

FLASH SALE, EBAY

COUPON: PICKDADSGIFT

Gives 20% off.

I just got two boxes of renegade for only $133 each.

Man your battle stations, boys.

 drazz wrote:
Knight Lance: Any time you puts Knights in a Super Heavy Detachment, you need 3 Questoris or bigger to get the CP. You also get one character (though, I'm uncertain on the clarification that the character needs to be a big knight, but I would make that assumption).

Otherwise, any detachment that has Knights still gets to use Knights rules; Households, traits, strats.

In order to have a relic, you need to have a warlord. In order to have a warlord, you need to have a character. In order to make a Knight a character, you need either a Knight Lance or a 1 CP strat: Exhaulted Court.

At least, that is my understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So, 3 big Knights gets you one Character (in order to get a warlord). The detatchment gets 3 CP. Extra Armigers can be put into this detatchment.

A big knight with armigers can be a character (warlord) for 1 CP. But, gets no CP for the detatchment.

A lone knight can be a character (warlord) for the cost of 1 CP. No CP given.

All versions listed above are Battleforged and get their households, strats, and traits.

Thank you!

 drazz wrote:

A big knight with armigers can be a character (warlord) for 1 CP. But, gets no CP for the detatchment.
.

No need for cp. You get 1 character from det. Armiger just prevents cp from det

 Cephalobeard wrote:
FLASH SALE, EBAY

COUPON: PICKDADSGIFT

Gives 20% off.

I just got two boxes of renegade for only $133 each.

Man your battle stations, boys.

Why are these great deal always NA exclusive?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
FLASH SALE, EBAY

COUPON: PICKDADSGIFT

Gives 20% off.

I just got two boxes of renegade for only $133 each.

Man your battle stations, boys.

Thanks! That is awesome and now I'll have a 2nd Renegade box to work with!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 drazz wrote:

A big knight with armigers can be a character (warlord) for 1 CP. But, gets no CP for the detatchment.
.

No need for cp. You get 1 character from det. Armiger just prevents cp from det

Thanks, I was wondering about that! Then I just couldn't take a warlord trait or relic unless I used a stratagem, as my warlord will be in the AdMech detachment.

tneva82 wrote:

 drazz wrote:

A big knight with armigers can be a character (warlord) for 1 CP. But, gets no CP for the detatchment.
.

No need for cp. You get 1 character from det. Armiger just prevents cp from det

I'll go back and clean this up, but my understanding is that in an auxiliary detatchment there will be no free character.

Edit: whoops, my mistake there.

thats right, since an aux doesent get the lance rule.

besides: http://natfka.blogspot.com/2018/06/leaked-imperial-knight-codex-pics.html

now we can read it ourselves

Just had a thought on the 'Exiled in Shame' Burden - does that include enemy Stratagems?

For example:
Night Lords player uses the -1 to hit Stratagem. The Freeblade ignores this as it is not affected by any Stratagems.

Thoughts?

RAW? Yeah, looks that way.

FAQ incoming? Probably.