Sorry, but your argument is "this is poor game design because it is poor game design".
Yes, because that is the crunch of my argument. [/Sarcasm]
If we look at Kill Team we see that they (the design team) added that a natural 1 is a miss and a natural 6 is a hit, for all players, thus creating a level playing field. GW have a history of trying out new ideas in games to see what stick and then later incorporating them into their core mechanics.
This reminds me why I try to stay clear of these types of discussions on DakkaDakka. I'll leave with this, arguing here is not going to influence GW's game design team.
Have you actually played kill team? It has so many negative modifiers that most times no one would be able to shoot anything unless sixes always hit, shooting at -2 to is the norm.
In 40k most shots are done at +-0, or -1.
It's a completely different game.
You have not provided any argument besides "It's good game design because it's good game design". If you don't want to discuss this further, that's fine with me. I will just conclude that you have nothing to back up your claims.
The amount of people who don't care to read, and more importantly understand, is staggering. You see, NO ONE is complaining that Orks hit on 6s. NO ONE.
A couple people made some comments on how it'd be nice for the game if every faction could hit on 6s as a core rule. Then... it all began.
Ork players started showing their true colors, claiming that they, and only they, are deserving of this most grandiose rule. Never mind that other factions have had similar problems, though to a lesser extent. Apparently, they just don't care and they label any who would bring to light similarly maligned units as a cry baby. They only care about themselves and their faction and it is THAT attitude that irks me.
Pure hypocrisy.
I'm leaving before I burst a blood vessel from the contradictions and entitlement. Any sympathy I had for Ork players just evaporated because of this thread.
Good day.
arnt ork true colors green, because green is best, and isnt green envy or some other thing
feel free to leave. now i try to keep form making this type of comment because i myself am not a fan of the "if you dont like it then dont participate" argument, but ill make an exception here.
to make the claim that you no longer care for other ork players because of a single thread? inst that just a little extreme?
you can ignore the many ork players in this thread with reasonable arguments, or you can cheery pick out the unreasonable ones...and that shows more about you then you realize. you were looking for the bad, when ive seen the good. your entitled to your opinon and we are entitled to ours, you just decided you opinion would paint the whole of ork players on this forum (heck, you make it sound like you no longer care for any ork player that doesn't happen to be you) . that is an extreme generalization. its fine to be extreme here, as its part of the anonymous internet, just dont be surprised to be lambasted by all the ork players you have lost all sympathy for.
so let me start...ahem.
zog off.
Disagreement is fine, however my comment was more directed at the following:
Tau(or anyone else) simply don't need the "always hit on six" rule because they never face the issue of an entire army being unable to shoot due to modifiers. There is no need for moving, fully degraded artillery tanks being able to hit stealth bombers.
I'm not too worried about your drones to be honest. Is there anything else in your dex that has 5+ BS? The majority of our shooting units have it and hence why the fix was required. Don't mistake it for greed, your drones simply don't need the fix when the rest of your army has no issue.
Vineheart01 wrote: im enjoying the QQ from other races considering practically every other race player laughed in my face when we got the 7th codex and said "well that sucks better learn to deal with it"
Orks finally get something really strong nobody else has. I relish in the tears im seeing!
I don't play Orks and I say only they deserve this rule.
Want to counter Raven Guard, Ailtoc, Alpha Legion, and Stygies? Stop running pure gunline or use more Markerlights if you're Tau. I REALLY don't care someone's poor Infantry cannot hit something. Boohoo.
Now, maybe I've misunderstood them, but I'm getting the inescapable feeling that they dismiss valid concerns as not worth their time, and sometimes enjoy it out of spite. There's also the mix-in of the casual condescension at times.
Granted, this does not represent the ork community as a whole, and my comment tended towards hyperbole, but it's still not a good showing.
Sorry, but your argument is "this is poor game design because it is poor game design".
Yes, because that is the crunch of my argument. [/Sarcasm]
If we look at Kill Team we see that they (the design team) added that a natural 1 is a miss and a natural 6 is a hit, for all players, thus creating a level playing field. GW have a history of trying out new ideas in games to see what stick and then later incorporating them into their core mechanics.
This reminds me why I try to stay clear of these types of discussions on DakkaDakka. I'll leave with this, arguing here is not going to influence GW's game design team.
Have you actually played kill team? It has so many negative modifiers that most times no one would be able to shoot anything unless sixes always hit, shooting at -2 to is the norm.
In 40k most shots are done at +-0, or -1.
It's a completely different game.
You have not provided any argument besides "It's good game design because it's good game design". If you don't want to discuss this further, that's fine with me. I will just conclude that you have nothing to back up your claims.
6s should always hit because at no point should it be physically impossible to complete an attack against another model.
Now, maybe I've misunderstood them, but I'm getting the inescapable feeling that they dismiss valid concerns as not worth their time, and sometimes enjoy it out of spite. There's also the mix-in of the casual condescension at times.
Granted, this does not represent the ork community as a whole, and my comment tended towards hyperbole, but it's still not a good showing.
well, i guess if those are the comments that influence you to generalize all ork players then i cant really argue with that....sarcasm.
Spoiler:
you know what happens when i see a few comments that make me mad....i might retort, but i soon brush it off and dont label the entirety of a fanbase for a few people. if this was the case then i would be too scared to be a fan of MLP or steven universe. how am i able to do this, i grew a thicker skin.
these comments are all from jaded ork players. i cant blame them, im jaded too. many other armies have had their time in the sun and when we get a nice thing then all of the sudden alot of people are like "we should share...because ethics or something". maybe everyone should have a clan trait that is -1 to hit so we all can feel included while we are at it, maybe we all should get legacy warlord traits, maybe we all should get a guiliman model with the same rules?
truth is, would it be so bad if everyone got "always hit on 6s", not really, only very few will end up benefiting from it (as many have said, we are pretty much the only faction that really benefits form this)....and then we orks didn't get any real benefit from DDD. our army wide rule is now game wide and the only other thing we get out of our codex DDD rule is we get to roll extra dice for those 1/6 Chance of rolling a six (and the rolled dice will also have to get past our ballistic skill to be even useful).
someones op unit from last edition (that cromped so many of our own armies) gets nerfed? good riddance. you could take the moral highground of "eye for an eye makes the world blind" or some other hippy squig dung, but at the end of the day we all play a game that is all about fighting our armies against each other, and we have been the punching bag too often, what advantage we get we should hold, and if its distributed to others then i would hope GW would give us a little extra more to compensate.
if our codex comes out and we are the most op thing ever to exist, then we will get some fun games in, relish in the tears of our enemies and then get a Little miffed when the nerf bat comes down. we deserve some good treatment after we have been loyal fans and paying customers for these many years, we dont have to accept our lot as abused cannon fodder.
and if i was a player form another faction that got the nerf bat, but i had enjoyed the time in the sun for whole entire editions then maybe i should be more gracious to the low man on the totem pole finally getting his chance to shine and giving me a good opportunity to flex my ability to make an actual well thought out list.
whew, rant over. tldr: maybe some of that was ad homnum attacks. but the point is that we ork players are justified in being cheeky about getting our new buffs.
Dandelion wrote: 6s should always hit because at no point should it be physically impossible to complete an attack against another model.
Why not? No one has provided a single reason for this except "it's bad game design". In an argument, you need to back up your claims.
For most models, it's already impossible to shoot characters (or models with similar protection) behind other units and it's impossible to shoot models out of line of sight.
-3 to hit or higher does not exist outside of very few corner cases, it's not any different from gretchin crew or DG's cloud of flies stratagem.
I also love how you get mad over this comment:
Tau(or anyone else) simply don't need the "always hit on six" rule because they never face the issue of an entire army being unable to shoot due to modifiers. There is no need for moving, fully degraded artillery tanks being able to hit stealth bombers.
It's a perfectly valid reason for sixes to not always hit. A basilisk holds still all game to maximize its shooting output, just like an artillery tank should. With "sixes always hit" a basilisk that has had large chunks of its armor blown off suddenly starts move about like a mobile gun platform and take shots at a passing voidraven bomber and has the same chance to hit them as it has to hit infantry out in the open.
I don't dismiss your concerns, I have provided arguments and proof to why your concerns simply aren't justified. No other army suffers the same from -2 to hit as orks does, so no other army needs to hit on sixes by default.
Feel free to provide counter-arguments and back them up. That's how discussions are supposed to work.
Dandelion wrote: I've learned to expect nothing from others when it comes to an honest discussion, at least online.
Honest discussion? I already told you my reasoning. I simply don't feel bad because only a Guard player would complain about it.
I play Orks too you walnut. Besides, this whole guard apologist angle stems from your misunderstanding of my mockery of your (and others) arguments. Which makes me believe you do not read to understand, only to refute with a quipy one liner and an ad hominem. Which is why an honest discussion is impossible.
Trying to quote fallacies isn't gonna make anyone think you're smarter in this argument.
The concern is NOT legitimate. Nobody cares about the negative modifiers besides Guard players that want to camp and do nothing but shoot. Orks are the only army in the fluff where this rule makes sense. Natural 6 shouldn't always be a success; look at how many people argue about the current wounding chart.
Guys, take your arguments elsewhere please. Open a thread in General if you want to talk about 6's always hitting. It's getting tiresome to come here and to see no new rumors, just people standing their ground forever on things completely unrelated to Orks rumors.
I don't know why, but I only now noticed that Speed Freeks has blinds so you can set your maneuvers like X-Wing does with dials.
A one and done X-Wing type game where they aren't trying to constantly jam in another ship with upgrade cards sounds great. I was planning on getting it for the miniatures, but I'm thinking there's potential for a really solid game here. Though taking just the starter and every ship in wave 1 of X-Wing still gets broken by upgrade card combos. Hopefully there's not too much in the way of upgrade/combo potential here.
Spoiler:
Doesn't look like it. There are a couple decks of cards at the top, but they're not laid out like they're upgrades to the stat cards. Maybe they're damage and special event cards or something.
lord_blackfang wrote: The dasboard has 3 dice, and each side has 4 vehicles, so it can't be a manoeuvre selector. Also the dice have a shield, arrow and lightning icon.
the 3 spots are probably attributes like speed, atk, and defense. screen is there so you and your opponent can select these 3 abilities with what you rolled so not to plan against each other and then as the turn rolls out you can put out a dice for each of your vehicles depending on what you had available in the relevant stat. (4 dice per attribute, a dice per vehicle. not sure how this will work if there is a system to get more vehicles, use all the dice in the box and hope your opponent bought their own full speedfreeks game?).
either way it seems like a fun randum game (probably simple enough rules for quick play) of cat and mouse....but the tom and jerry kind where great bodily harm is guaranteed....and dakka of course
Danny76 wrote: One - Time/effort/money. Each model would have to be changed and new bases bought etc and the work to redo them all, I need to be working on unpainted minis...
Yeah, because clipping the sides of a base and gluing it on top of bigger one or simply using the enlarging adapting rings is really time and money consuming, and totally not takes less than a hour and a few $ for even a big army (just wait for base bag sales on ebay). Hell, even if you were then PVA the rim and re-sand or re-flock it for uniformity it's still less than a day job...
I mean, way to make an assumption about someone else’s life.
I don’t have the time, I told you that. I didn’t say no one can do it.
I’m slow at painting and modelling, and don’t get much time for it, let alone playing.
I have a one year old to invest my time in (oh, you or someone else has a kid too and still has the time to rebase - great for them, I’m not you/them).
My hobby money is limited, so buying that stuff still costs where I don’t want to invest.
But hey, you don’t need to worry, you’ll never play me, so let me have my opinion on rebasing.
And on the Official bass size, despite you citing AoS which is irrelevant (albeit yes for now, I agree most stuff ports over), they did also say that GW tournaments and games themselves have no official size, not even what comes in box, and it’s all just a guide.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the topic and exciting happiness of the new book:
I do hope that it isn’t all pushed towards the new vehicles, and green tide gets a good showing, and boys in trukks etc
Either/Or wrote: People with more math hammer than me: Does the Dakkadakka rule make the rumored bad moons re-roll ones rule worthwhile, or is it still not so hot compared to the others?.
Orks roll 1's 16.6% of the time.
Orks hit on a 5+ 33.3% of the time.
Orks hitting on a 5+ rerolling 1's hit 39%
Orks hitting on a 6+ 16.6% of the time
Orks hitting on a 6+ rerolling 1's hit 19.4%
Either/Or wrote: People with more math hammer than me: Does the Dakkadakka rule make the rumored bad moons re-roll ones rule worthwhile, or is it still not so hot compared to the others?.
Orks roll 1's 16.6% of the time.
Orks hit on a 5+ 33.3% of the time.
Orks hitting on a 5+ rerolling 1's hit 39%
Orks hitting on a 6+ 16.6% of the time
Orks hitting on a 6+ rerolling 1's hit 19.4%
and then you factor in the extra shots generated by those 6's.....
backlash13 wrote: and then you factor in the extra shots generated by those 6's.....
Hadn't seen the DAKKA DAKKA rule when I posted that
Orks roll 1's 16.6% of the time.
Orks roll 6's 16.6% of the time.
Orks hit on a 5+ 33.3% of the time.
Orks hitting on a 5+ rerolling 1's hit 39%
16.6% of attacks generate an additional hit that then hits 33.3% so an additional increase of 5.5%
So orks hitting on a 5, generating additional attacks on a 6, hit about 39% of the time
So orks hitting on a 5, generating additional attacks on a 6, re-rolling 1's, hit about 45% of the time
So if Bad Moons get re-roll 1 as a Klan tactic, I'll be playing Bad Moons from now on, because actually hitting things you shoot at is tight.
So what would the numbers be for hitting on 4's rerolling 1's and dakkadakkadakka? I'm too tired to figure it out but I'm guessing mek gunz could very well make up the backbone for a strong ork gunline
PiñaColada wrote: So what would the numbers be for hitting on 4's rerolling 1's and dakkadakkadakka? I'm too tired to figure it out but I'm guessing mek gunz could very well make up the backbone for a strong ork gunline
50% to hit + 8.33% reroll ones + 9.7% extra for 6s (after rerolls) + 0.8% for last reroll ones= 68.83% hit rate. Which is better than a flat BS 3+.
PiñaColada wrote: So what would the numbers be for hitting on 4's rerolling 1's and dakkadakkadakka? I'm too tired to figure it out but I'm guessing mek gunz could very well make up the backbone for a strong ork gunline
50% to hit + 8.33% reroll ones + 9.7% extra for 6s (after rerolls) + 0.8% for last reroll ones= 68.83% hit rate. Which is better than a flat BS 3+.
I was thinking about that for Flash Gitz. ammo runts to reroll misses and Badrukk for the rerolling 1's buff. Depending on the size of the game.
My Gitz are blue so Bad Moons are out.
im curious if Badrukk will have a rule change. Isnt he Bad Moonz to begin with?
Even if he isnt, Flash Gitz as Bad Moonz = no need for the overpriced Badrukk toting around for the rerolls and you cant reroll a reroll so...no point. Perhaps reroll 1s to wound for flashgitz? or too much on top of what we got? lol
I'd expect Flash Gitz to lack the Clan keyword or have it fixed as Freeboota, as thats how the background has had them portrayed for some time for the most part.
Flash Gitz were Freebooterz from the very beginning. They were basically Bad Moons turned up to 11; so insufferable even the other Bad Moonz kicked them out. Speed Freaks are the equivalent for Evil Sunz, and Looterz from the Deah Skullz.
man, if the badmoons, the poshest clan of all, cant stand the presence of flashgitz who go and make the freebooterz then man, freebooterz must be the most insuferable gitz
geargutz wrote: man, if the badmoons, the poshest clan of all, cant stand the presence of flashgitz who go and make the freebooterz then man, freebooterz must be the most insuferable gitz
Yeah, I've never seen 'Flash Gitz' as a term of endearment.
That's what other Orks call them 'cause they're the annoying rich Orks who won't stop parading their stuff around.
geargutz wrote: man, if the badmoons, the poshest clan of all, cant stand the presence of flashgitz who go and make the freebooterz then man, freebooterz must be the most insuferable gitz
Yeah, I've never seen 'Flash Gitz' as a term of endearment.
That's what other Orks call them 'cause they're the annoying rich Orks who won't stop parading their stuff around.
Worse, they’re the sort of gitz that think being called a “Flash Git” is a term of endearment because they’re so awesome, and all da uvva gitz is just jealous.
cut the thing in 3rds,us the middle in another thing, then take the back end and have in entering a portal and then take the front and have it exiting at the other end of the base.
That shokkjump conversion is a really cool idea but also quite daunting. I'm guessing it might be difficult to pull off but it'd look amazing if you do.
By the way, now that we know the release date for rogue trader is there anything more on the horizon before it's Orks o'clock?
I don't remember if they said it but I assume that Ser Hekthur is released in september. Other than him, it's what? Kill Team? I wonder if the Speed Freeks preorder isn't up for end of month
geargutz wrote: man, if the badmoons, the poshest clan of all, cant stand the presence of flashgitz who go and make the freebooterz then man, freebooterz must be the most insuferable gitz
Yeah, I've never seen 'Flash Gitz' as a term of endearment.
That's what other Orks call them 'cause they're the annoying rich Orks who won't stop parading their stuff around.
Specifically, they've got better gear than the Warboss, and that ain't on.
geargutz wrote: man, if the badmoons, the poshest clan of all, cant stand the presence of flashgitz who go and make the freebooterz then man, freebooterz must be the most insuferable gitz
Yeah, I've never seen 'Flash Gitz' as a term of endearment.
That's what other Orks call them 'cause they're the annoying rich Orks who won't stop parading their stuff around.
Specifically, they've got better gear than the Warboss, and that ain't on.
I thought the wargear issue gets solved by a swift headbutt and now the boss got da flashy gubbinz an a few more teef ta pay some fungus beer to relax after all that hassle?!
4th Edition Ork Codex wrote:
The richtest and most obnoxious of all Orks are indisputably the Flash Gitz. These unsavory individuals pursue as life of conquest and pillage, plying the stars in grotesquely ornamented Kill Kroozas and attack craft. The Flash Gitz take every opportunity they can to fight alongside the rest of the Boyz, if only to flaubt tgeir revoltingly powerful weaponry in front of their less fortunate brethren.
Arrogant and willful, the Flash Gitz believe that they are at the top of te pecking order of Orks society. This means that many Flash Git mobs are outcasts, booted out of their tribe for giving the Warboss too much cheek or just being a bunch of smug show-offs. Others voluntarily pursue the life of the Freebooter, so that they can get their hands on even more booty without having to share a single tooth.
Flash Gitz love accumulating treasure and are constantly on the lookout ofr opportunities to raid and pillage. They are so possessed with upgrading their wargear that they will do almost anything to get more wealth, including acts of low treachery, murder, the hiring out of their services to alien races, and the occasional recreational backstabbing.
The Gitz are instantly recognizable by their ostentatious apparel and air of swaggering self-importance. Each is festooned with piercings, medallions, trophies, animal furs and gilded glyphs proclaiming the greatness of their owner, usually topped off by an extravagant hat. Many Flash Gitz are from the Bad Moons clan, and they two factions always enjoy a good brag over barrels of the finest fungus rum that teeth can buy.
The arrival of a Flash Gittz mob is usually announced by the jingle and clank of their many possessions, but this of no consequence to the Gitz. They love parading their wealth in front of other Orks, and want everybody to know about it when they do so. Even attendant Grots are heavily beringed and well-dressed, and take great pride in boasting of their master's exploits.
If there's one thing the Flash Gitz like more than strutting their stuff, it's using their kustom shootas to vapourise their enemies. The so-called snazzguns used by the Flash Gitz vary tremendously in design, but because bucketfuls of teeth and tend to encourage a Mek to produce his best work they are all uniformly deadly. Woe betide the fool who gives a Flash Git the excuse to test out his latest purchase.
For all those who had the chance to have a codex with propper fluff inside.
cut the thing in 3rds,us the middle in another thing, then take the back end and have in entering a portal and then take the front and have it exiting at the other end of the base.
a way to show buggy portable warp tech in action.
Could be a sneaky way to get two buggies out of one kit too
cut the thing in 3rds,us the middle in another thing, then take the back end and have in entering a portal and then take the front and have it exiting at the other end of the base.
a way to show buggy portable warp tech in action.
Could be a sneaky way to get two buggies out of one kit too
Seems like a very short jump, if it's just half a base.
Another alternative would be to cut a buggie in half and have the front end exit a portal and the back end entering one.That nets you two buggies from one kit!
Obviously it'll be best to make the two halfs rather different with varying gubbinz and differing paintjobs, to illustrate it's two separate buggies and not one simultaniously entering and exiting (course, that would be a cool piece too, but unsuited for gaming).
geargutz wrote: man, if the badmoons, the poshest clan of all, cant stand the presence of flashgitz who go and make the freebooterz then man, freebooterz must be the most insuferable gitz
Yeah, I've never seen 'Flash Gitz' as a term of endearment.
That's what other Orks call them 'cause they're the annoying rich Orks who won't stop parading their stuff around.
Specifically, they've got better gear than the Warboss, and that ain't on.
I thought the wargear issue gets solved by a swift headbutt and now the boss got da flashy gubbinz an a few more teef ta pay some fungus beer to relax after all that hassle?!
Yeah, I never got how the rest of the band simply didn't administer some krumpin' to share the wealth around when they see mob of these. Last time I checked orks weren't particularly hard on the topic of exclusive rights and control over property. Never mind the warboss, you'd think even the nobz would react first...
geargutz wrote: man, if the badmoons, the poshest clan of all, cant stand the presence of flashgitz who go and make the freebooterz then man, freebooterz must be the most insuferable gitz
Yeah, I've never seen 'Flash Gitz' as a term of endearment.
That's what other Orks call them 'cause they're the annoying rich Orks who won't stop parading their stuff around.
Specifically, they've got better gear than the Warboss, and that ain't on.
I thought the wargear issue gets solved by a swift headbutt and now the boss got da flashy gubbinz an a few more teef ta pay some fungus beer to relax after all that hassle?!
Yeah, I never got how the rest of the band simply didn't administer some krumpin' to share the wealth around when they see mob of these. Last time I checked orks weren't particularly hard on the topic of exclusive rights and control over property. Never mind the warboss, you'd think even the nobz would react first...
Flashgitz are more that willing to use them, and hard to pass a mob size check of 1
geargutz wrote: man, if the badmoons, the poshest clan of all, cant stand the presence of flashgitz who go and make the freebooterz then man, freebooterz must be the most insuferable gitz
Yeah, I've never seen 'Flash Gitz' as a term of endearment.
That's what other Orks call them 'cause they're the annoying rich Orks who won't stop parading their stuff around.
Specifically, they've got better gear than the Warboss, and that ain't on.
I thought the wargear issue gets solved by a swift headbutt and now the boss got da flashy gubbinz an a few more teef ta pay some fungus beer to relax after all that hassle?!
Yeah, I never got how the rest of the band simply didn't administer some krumpin' to share the wealth around when they see mob of these. Last time I checked orks weren't particularly hard on the topic of exclusive rights and control over property. Never mind the warboss, you'd think even the nobz would react first...
No, no, no. You can't have the smaller ones beating on the larger one to take their stuff. It upsets the natural order. Orks wont stand for it.
Was it ever confirmed that the Speed Freeks set would come out before the codex or was that just spikey bits saying stuff? I mean, I imagine that's true but would be nice to know for a fact
aracersss wrote: can we safely admit orkz are for pre orders in about two weeks?
Two weeks from now is still September. Three weeks from now is still September.
They said Orctober.
3 weeks from now would at least put release on october. I'm personally hoping for that. Would give it in time for tournament that way. If not...Well best I can hope is in time for apoc game.
This weekend is rogue trader. Next weekend, the 15th, is the imperial knight character. The 22nd will be beasts of chaos for AoS. the 29th might be speed freeks but is more likely to be warhammer underworlds which is teased in this month's white dwarf.
PiñaColada wrote: Was it ever confirmed that the Speed Freeks set would come out before the codex or was that just spikey bits saying stuff? I mean, I imagine that's true but would be nice to know for a fact
At least this is what people attending warhammer fest said. There has not been an official confirmation though.
PiñaColada wrote: Was it ever confirmed that the Speed Freeks set would come out before the codex or was that just spikey bits saying stuff? I mean, I imagine that's true but would be nice to know for a fact
At least this is what people attending warhammer fest said. There has not been an official confirmation though.
That doesn't mean the month before though, just before. Speed Freeks could go up for preorder the first week of October, and the Codex one, two, maybe three weeks later.
PiñaColada wrote: Was it ever confirmed that the Speed Freeks set would come out before the codex or was that just spikey bits saying stuff? I mean, I imagine that's true but would be nice to know for a fact
At least this is what people attending warhammer fest said. There has not been an official confirmation though.
That doesn't mean the month before though, just before. Speed Freeks could go up for preorder the first week of October, and the Codex one, two, maybe three weeks later.
No, in fact it's almost the complete opposite since Speed Freeks by GWs own admission is out in Orktober. If that's the first of the Ork releases then the absolute earliest we're seeing any Ork preorders is the last week of September
PiñaColada wrote: Was it ever confirmed that the Speed Freeks set would come out before the codex or was that just spikey bits saying stuff? I mean, I imagine that's true but would be nice to know for a fact
I missed this. Does it refer to the Codex being rewritten because it was super crap once again or what?
Actually, the rumor was that the issue was the opposite. The original codex supposedly allowed Orks to be extremely OP by being able to start with most of their army out of their deployment zone or something along those lines.
well orks were supposed to get a total overhaul on their codex so knowing GW and "new stuff" they probably did make them way overpowered. And noticed it this time...for once...and held it back for revisions.
Vineheart01 wrote: well orks were supposed to get a total overhaul on their codex so knowing GW and "new stuff" they probably did make them way overpowered. And noticed it this time...for once...and held it back for revisions.
Aaaaand once again this myth. Dark angel and tau fliers were sooooo broken on release. And primaris were such an awesome cheese they needed point drops to get people to fieid them.
Considering the leaked 20 PL stratagem - imagine if they had just limited it to one or two units or even 2CP per unit without limit. Copy&Paste from another codex and be done with it.
You could easily have over a hundred boyz and kommandoz within 9" of your enemy turn one. Combine with evil suns trait for more reliable 9" charges, I could see this easily being game braking.
And it's not too hard to catch, considering this is pretty much what everyone has been doing this edition until the beta rules hit.
I thought kommandos could only be deployed turn 2 outside deployment zone per FAQ.
So you would be limited to the 20 PL.
Yes, the evil sunz strat would make charging from the 9" much more reliable. Especially with a warboss in range if you could do that. It would be very likely, esp. If they still have full rerolls to charge.
If they've only just realised the codex is overpowered we're not going to see the codex in October, the lead time to rewrite (even if it is a quick hatchet job), find a printer with a spare slot (even an expensive EU one) get books printed, and then distribute them world wide in time for a launch just isn't going to happen
(unless they do a digital only launch with the print version coming a month or two later, I guess that would give them data on whether going digital only might work for all their stuff too so it might be an option they'd consider)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: If they've only just realised the codex is overpowered we're not going to see the codex in October, the lead time to rewrite (even if it is a quick hatchet job), find a printer with a spare slot (even an expensive EU one) get books printed, and then distribute them world wide in time for a launch just isn't going to happen
(unless they do a digital only launch with the print version coming a month or two later, I guess that would give them data on whether going digital only might work for all their stuff too so it might be an option they'd consider)
The Over powered rumor is a bit dated, quite a few weeks back. its only just now being mentioned here in this thread.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: If they've only just realised the codex is overpowered we're not going to see the codex in October, the lead time to rewrite (even if it is a quick hatchet job), find a printer with a spare slot (even an expensive EU one) get books printed, and then distribute them world wide in time for a launch just isn't going to happen
(unless they do a digital only launch with the print version coming a month or two later, I guess that would give them data on whether going digital only might work for all their stuff too so it might be an option they'd consider)
Pulping an entire run of books seems like an extreme reaction when they can just do what they did with Space Wolves and release a Day 1 FAQ/errata page.
Not to raise a dead horse from the grave just to kick it mercilessly, BUT if GW were to put out in CA 18' that all armies hit on a 6 to hit (not saying I agree with that line of thinking, I actually agree that for pretty much everyone outside of orks the -2 to hit problem still results in them hitting on 6's so whats the need for the rule) would we as Ork players be happy with something like this?
DakkaDakkaDakka - Additional to hit roll on unmodified 6's + Orks always hit on a 5+ regardless on modifiers (so basically negative modifiers do not effect our shooting)
EldarExarch wrote: Not to raise a dead horse from the grave just to kick it mercilessly, BUT if GW were to put out in CA 18' that all armies hit on a 6 to hit (not saying I agree with that line of thinking, I actually agree that for pretty much everyone outside of orks the -2 to hit problem still results in them hitting on 6's so whats the need for the rule) would we as Ork players be happy with something like this?
DakkaDakkaDakka - Additional to hit roll on unmodified 6's + Orks always hit on a 5+ regardless on modifiers (so basically negative modifiers do not effect our shooting)
Is that too strong?
Probably, one very significant tweak to that I would make:
Orks always hit on a 5+ in the shooting phase regardless of modifiers
I don't think the intention is to make Orks the masters of overwatch.
I dunno. You charge da boyz dey may just point da dakka at you and not miss as much. It would be kinda orky for orks to be good at shooting things running at them.
considering one of the biggest ways to annoy an ork has always been "charge them first" i dont think giving them master of overwatch powers is a wise idea.
Even w/o the Furious Charge rule, if you charge the orks then you attack first (cp not withstanding) and unless its MANz and you have no melee AP, you're going to kill orks before they get to swing.
EldarExarch wrote: Not to raise a dead horse from the grave just to kick it mercilessly, BUT if GW were to put out in CA 18' that all armies hit on a 6 to hit (not saying I agree with that line of thinking, I actually agree that for pretty much everyone outside of orks the -2 to hit problem still results in them hitting on 6's so whats the need for the rule) would we as Ork players be happy with something like this?
DakkaDakkaDakka - Additional to hit roll on unmodified 6's + Orks always hit on a 5+ regardless on modifiers (so basically negative modifiers do not effect our shooting)
Is that too strong?
No, because I dislike when other armies just blatantly ignore my rules, so I don't want to have rules that blatantly ignore other armies' rules.
If you're a speedygofast type army and you're supposed to have durability based on - to hit? Fine. That is valid. It should have some effect.
Friends don't let friends get rules that make people hate them like they hate Tau/Eldar.
Ive been checking the GW Webstore periodically to see if any models get removed leading up to release. For a long time there have been 51 entries for orks, but now there is only 50. I cant figure out what is missing. Anyone know?
EldarExarch wrote: Not to raise a dead horse from the grave just to kick it mercilessly, BUT if GW were to put out in CA 18' that all armies hit on a 6 to hit (not saying I agree with that line of thinking, I actually agree that for pretty much everyone outside of orks the -2 to hit problem still results in them hitting on 6's so whats the need for the rule) would we as Ork players be happy with something like this?
DakkaDakkaDakka - Additional to hit roll on unmodified 6's + Orks always hit on a 5+ regardless on modifiers (so basically negative modifiers do not effect our shooting)
Is that too strong?
Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Billagio wrote: Ive been checking the GW Webstore periodically to see if any models get removed leading up to release. For a long time there have been 51 entries for orks, but now there is only 50. I cant figure out what is missing. Anyone know?
The UK site still has 51, the US site lacks the Battleforce: Kult of Speed entry
Billagio wrote: Ive been checking the GW Webstore periodically to see if any models get removed leading up to release. For a long time there have been 51 entries for orks, but now there is only 50. I cant figure out what is missing. Anyone know?
The UK site still has 51, the US site lacks the Battleforce: Kult of Speed entry
Ah gotcha, makes sense with the upcoming Speed Freeks game coming out I guess, wonder why US was updated but not UK
Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Why would everyone need the 'everyone hits on 6s' rule?
Are Orks getting orders and the ability to soup with any Imperium army? If we're all sharing each other's unique rules now....
Billagio wrote: Ive been checking the GW Webstore periodically to see if any models get removed leading up to release. For a long time there have been 51 entries for orks, but now there is only 50. I cant figure out what is missing. Anyone know?
The UK site still has 51, the US site lacks the Battleforce: Kult of Speed entry
Ah gotcha, makes sense with the upcoming Speed Freeks game coming out I guess, wonder why US was updated but not UK
Maybe it sold out and they've stopped making them? I don't know really
Billagio wrote: Ive been checking the GW Webstore periodically to see if any models get removed leading up to release. For a long time there have been 51 entries for orks, but now there is only 50. I cant figure out what is missing. Anyone know?
The UK site still has 51, the US site lacks the Battleforce: Kult of Speed entry
Ah gotcha, makes sense with the upcoming Speed Freeks game coming out I guess, wonder why US was updated but not UK
I've also been checking on it periodically. I might have missed something, but IIRC the only models they've removed are the Big Gunz (and Goff Rockerz, but I figure they don't count).
They added the Banner Nob back a while ago, and it's the version with the power klaw.
Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Why would everyone need the 'everyone hits on 6s' rule?
Are Orks getting orders and the ability to soup with any Imperium army? If we're all sharing each other's unique rules now....
I'll try to word this in a way that makes sense to both player bases. I myself am an ork player, but I do have other armies. The Problem with the lines of thinking is this: Non Ork armies are looking at it from a rules stand point that it should be a core mechanic that 6s always hit. However if you move to the fluff side of things, the Ork player is only hitting automatically on 6s because of the "volume of shots the ork army is supposedly able to put out". Other factions do not have this volume therefore should not automatically hit on 6s. even if it makes sense rules-wise it doesn't make sense fluffwise. Additionally from the Ork perspective, GW gave us a shiny new tool to help us compete. Non Ork players, by saying that 6s should be a core mechanic are also saying that they want half the rule to apply to them as well. so by suggesting this, the Ork players then want to know what suggestion should be substituted in addition to the additional hit rolls on 6s for trying to take a rule that applies exclusively to them and distributing it to other armies. I hope I explained why people on the Orks side are saying there should be an additional benefit for essentially applying their rule to everyone.
mhalko1 wrote: I'll try to word this in a way that makes sense to both player bases. I myself am an ork player, but I do have other armies. The Problem with the lines of thinking is this: Non Ork armies are looking at it from a rules stand point that it should be a core mechanic that 6s always hit. However if you move to the fluff side of things, the Ork player is only hitting automatically on 6s because of the "volume of shots the ork army is supposedly able to put out". Other factions do not have this volume therefore should not automatically hit on 6s. even if it makes sense rules-wise it doesn't make sense fluffwise. Additionally from the Ork perspective, GW gave us a shiny new tool to help us compete. Non Ork players, by saying that 6s should be a core mechanic are also saying that they want half the rule to apply to them as well. so by suggesting this, the Ork players then want to know what suggestion should be substituted in addition to the additional hit rolls on 6s for trying to take a rule that applies exclusively to them and distributing it to other armies. I hope I explained why people on the Orks side are saying there should be an additional benefit for essentially applying their rule to everyone.
You've summed it up nicely, I think the only thing missing is that this rule is actually needed for Orks to function as an army in 8th while other armies don't need the rule to function. I don't think it would have hardly any difference on other factions except for the most remote and obscure cases, such as Sniper Drones (boohoo) and battered vehicles with 10+ W (that are supposed to miss most of their shots).
If every army gets this rule, then all of their units has instantly become better at no cost. That is poor balance. It's also pretty weak that other factions are trying to pilfer a unique Ork rule before we even have a codex. We haven't even got stratagems or relics and other players want our rules. It's our turn in the sun, even if it's for a few weeks.
Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
An immediate hit on a 6 that hits on a 5 or a 6 before modifiers is significantly less powerful than an extra attack on a 6 that hits on a 3 or 4+.
By contrast, rerolls on misses work in the inverse. That's why the twin linked rules ended up disproportionately favoring the armies with higher ballistic skills.
Edit: I meant this as a reply to mhalko1, but I foolishly didn't quote him and then my phone took forever to post my reply.
I understand those points to an extent, but on the other hand I disagree with them.
Other armies than Orks don't "need" an "always hits on 6s" rule like the Orks do. It really only makes a difference in edge cases. For that same reason, it isn't some big buff to other armies' shooting that we have to worry about either. It's definitely not necessary, but I don't think it takes anything away from the orks and it's not nearly as big of change in terms of rules as some of the other things they've put out in Chapter Approved and the big FAQ.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that while I don't think think other armies need to always but on 6 I also see no downside to having 6s always hit for everyone.
As far as needing half the rule replaced if everyone else gets it, I think that we really need to wait for the codex. It's possible that all ork shooting ends up ridiculously undercosted and we'll feel bad for Fielding all of our cheesy Lootas and Flash Gitz (I doubt that will actually happen, but the point is we really don't know).
Kanluwen wrote: Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Simple.
Because the rule is in our codex, we can assume that all of our shooting units cost more points because of it. Units should have point costs that are based upon the special rules that apply to them, no?
If GW turns around and makes it a general rule, every other army gets it for free. The Orks were the only army that had to pay for it.
Kanluwen wrote: Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Simple.
Because the rule is in our codex, we can assume that all of our shooting units cost more points because of it. Units should have point costs that are based upon the special rules that apply to them, no?
If GW turns around and makes it a general rule, every other army gets it for free. The Orks were the only army that had to pay for it.
Hence the salt.
I'm expecting it to take the place of mob rule, with mob rule moving to the detachment if battleforged benefit.
Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Why would everyone need the 'everyone hits on 6s' rule?
Are Orks getting orders and the ability to soup with any Imperium army? If we're all sharing each other's unique rules now....
Imagine Blood Axes being able to ally into Imperial forces
Then again, with IG and SM captains and Custodes, would Orks even enhance Imperial soup?
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: If they've only just realised the codex is overpowered we're not going to see the codex in October, the lead time to rewrite (even if it is a quick hatchet job), find a printer with a spare slot (even an expensive EU one) get books printed, and then distribute them world wide in time for a launch just isn't going to happen
(unless they do a digital only launch with the print version coming a month or two later, I guess that would give them data on whether going digital only might work for all their stuff too so it might be an option they'd consider)
The Over powered rumor is a bit dated, quite a few weeks back. its only just now being mentioned here in this thread.
So for that and october to be connected that would have to have happened more like january-march. Not "few weeks back"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: The overpowered codex rumour sounds like something a fake rumourmonger makes up to explain why his previous made up rumour didn't pan out.
Yep.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nurglitch wrote: An over-powered codex would sell a lot of Orks.
Of course GW has rather lousy track record on "overpowered rules to sell new models". Yeah wraithknight. One unit. Then assault centurions, tau/DA fliers, primaris that needed quickly price decrease to get people buy use them...
Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Why would everyone need the 'everyone hits on 6s' rule?
Are Orks getting orders and the ability to soup with any Imperium army? If we're all sharing each other's unique rules now....
Because no unit in the game should end up in impossible to hit. Only total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist would think that's good idea. No wonder thus GW has introduced such an idea.
If you think that's good idea I want impossible to hit in CC ability for my armies just to laugh at the ork players who put their own advantage over welfare of game.
Kanluwen wrote: Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Simple.
Because the rule is in our codex, we can assume that all of our shooting units cost more points because of it. Units should have point costs that are based upon the special rules that apply to them, no?
If GW turns around and makes it a general rule, every other army gets it for free. The Orks were the only army that had to pay for it.
Hence the salt.
GW doesn't believe in army rules upping point costs so...No.
Or are you expecting 7 pts boyz in the codex then?-)
Army rules, chapter/whatever traits. Those GW values as exactly 0.
tneva82 wrote: Because no unit in the game should end up in impossible to hit. Only total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist would think that's good idea.
You still owe us proof for this bold statement you keep repeating without anything to back it up.
Repeating it without proof does not make it true.
If you think that's good idea I want impossible to hit in CC ability for my armies just to laugh at the ork players who put their own advantage over welfare of game.
Please provide a list of models that cannot be hit by an army that completely consists of BS 3+ models.
Also note that there can be models which cannot be hit by orks in CC in the game right now.
Kanluwen wrote: Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Simple.
Because the rule is in our codex, we can assume that all of our shooting units cost more points because of it. Units should have point costs that are based upon the special rules that apply to them, no?
If GW turns around and makes it a general rule, every other army gets it for free. The Orks were the only army that had to pay for it.
Hence the salt.
Welcome to Thousand Sons in 2004, when suddenly everybody got Slow and Purposeful with bolters, without the downside, that they paid dearly for.
tneva82 wrote: Because no unit in the game should end up in impossible to hit. Only total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist would think that's good idea. No wonder thus GW has introduced such an idea.
If you think that's good idea I want impossible to hit in CC ability for my armies just to laugh at the ork players who put their own advantage over welfare of game.
You need to give a reason for this opinion rather than just spouting it as if it's gospel. WHY is it a massive problem if there can be a situation (that costs an absolute ton of resources) where a unit is impossible to hit? Back up why you think it's a 'total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist' mistake.
There ARE units in the game that impose negatives to hit in CC. There are situations where they can stack too. Your CC ability is just petty and pathetic.
-2 to hit is not impossible to hit for most models in most armies. The problem is that -2 to hit is impossible to hit for 95% of the Ork Codex. It's cometely unfun for an Ork player to play against and a completely unnecessary situation. The DakkaDakka rule solves this issue for Orks while leaving every other unit in the game unaffected.
Even if you think DakkaDakka should apply to all armies, solving this problem for at least Orks is better than not solving it at all. -2 to hit disproportionately affected Orks who've been cursed with disgraceful marksmanship since 3rd edition.
Shoota boyz already were 7pts at one point and they vanished as a result. Lootas/Burnas went up in points and went from rare to nonexistent. Think Tankbustas did too, but they actually got their rule changed to be more...understandable and useful so that was kinda justified. Kinda.
Yes this is all before DDD but the point is less bodies of a model that dies to a sneeze. I could see shootas being 1pt again because of the DDD rule, but nothing else. Everything else dakka related is so overpriced atm its not even funny. A loota is 2.8x the cost of a boy, dies exactly as easy (especially with how stupid cover is in 8th), and generally does about as much damage if they get to live, balancing the hits on 5s stronger shot vs hits on 3s weaker chop. edit: flash gitz are ok atm but not really all that amazing either. Main issue being the range requires a transport, and a trukk is a bad move while a BW is expensive and not that tough to take out either. Hilarious in a squiggoth though! edit2: you guys think FW will update their rules after the codex comes out? Things like the Squiggoth do have Klan Rules so they can get those but they wont have DDD. Be epic as hell if my gargsquig could get the DDD rule on a supa-lobba rofl....
Lootas disappeared because they are no longer able to damage tanks in a meaningful way, but still were priced like a unit that blows up a chimar/rhino per turn. 7th edition's point increase and FOC role change was just kicking something that had already died.
Burnas were killed by transport rules no longer allowing them to shoot from vehicles that moved flat out or tank-shocked. Currently they cost less than during the glory days of the burna wagon, but a unit paying to carry one of the worst weapons in the game is not going to go places.
Assuming you take a nob, tank bustas went up by 5 points for 15. They are also one of the best shooting units we have, so their points are fine
Shoota boyz are still inferior to slugga boyz if you add DakkaDakkaDakka. Evil suns is what will be making shoot boyz great again.
The biggest issue with Flash gits is their durability - you pay for a terminator, but you get guardsman. Just for comparison: A primaris Hellblaster is 33, a flash git with ammo runt is 31. Their range is much less of an issue, 24" is plenty when you are sitting in the middle of the board.
As for FW, I don't think they have updated their rules for any other codices.
adamsouza wrote: -2 to hit is not impossible to hit for most models in most armies. The problem is that -2 to hit is impossible to hit for 95% of the Ork Codex. It's cometely unfun for an Ork player to play against and a completely unnecessary situation. The DakkaDakka rule solves this issue for Orks while leaving every other unit in the game unaffected.
Even if you think DakkaDakka should apply to all armies, solving this problem for at least Orks is better than not solving it at all. -2 to hit disproportionately affected Orks who've been cursed with disgraceful marksmanship since 3rd edition.
Bolded is what seems to be the contentious issue.
Nobody is saying that the entire rule should apply to all armies. They're literally just saying that the part about "hitting on natural 6s" should be in there. And solving it "for at least Orks" is great, nobody's saying that it shouldn't be done--the issue is that some are forgetting that there aren't a whole lot of armies sitting on 3's to hit natively. And those are armies for whom they're built around shooting.
Kanluwen wrote: Nobody is saying that the entire rule should apply to all armies. They're literally just saying that the part about "hitting on natural 6s" should be in there. And solving it "for at least Orks" is great, nobody's saying that it shouldn't be done--the issue is that some are forgetting that there aren't a whole lot of armies sitting on 3's to hit natively. And those are armies for whom they're built around shooting.
Exatly. Armies with 4+ to hit normally may also have Heavy weapons. Meaning moving to get in range may result in not being able to hit at all against -2 to hit.
Natural 6s should always hit for every army. Orks get the additional rule that those 6s will also generate extra shots. Orks are also designed to have more shots anyway, so even without the extra shots rule, they would benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.
adamsouza wrote: -2 to hit is not impossible to hit for most models in most armies. The problem is that -2 to hit is impossible to hit for 95% of the Ork Codex. It's cometely unfun for an Ork player to play against and a completely unnecessary situation. The DakkaDakka rule solves this issue for Orks while leaving every other unit in the game unaffected.
Even if you think DakkaDakka should apply to all armies, solving this problem for at least Orks is better than not solving it at all. -2 to hit disproportionately affected Orks who've been cursed with disgraceful marksmanship since 3rd edition.
Bolded is what seems to be the contentious issue.
Nobody is saying that the entire rule should apply to all armies. They're literally just saying that the part about "hitting on natural 6s" should be in there. And solving it "for at least Orks" is great, nobody's saying that it shouldn't be done--the issue is that some are forgetting that there aren't a whole lot of armies sitting on 3's to hit natively. And those are armies for whom they're built around shooting.
1) Almost all armies are built to hit on 4+ natively, they hit -2 to hit on sixes anyways.
2) No one has yet provided a reason why the rule is needed by anyone but orks, while plenty of people have shown why tau, IG or nids don't need it to handle the occasional -3 to hit model.
Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Why would everyone need the 'everyone hits on 6s' rule?
Are Orks getting orders and the ability to soup with any Imperium army? If we're all sharing each other's unique rules now....
I'll try to word this in a way that makes sense to both player bases. I myself am an ork player, but I do have other armies. The Problem with the lines of thinking is this: Non Ork armies are looking at it from a rules stand point that it should be a core mechanic that 6s always hit. However if you move to the fluff side of things, the Ork player is only hitting automatically on 6s because of the "volume of shots the ork army is supposedly able to put out". Other factions do not have this volume therefore should not automatically hit on 6s. even if it makes sense rules-wise it doesn't make sense fluffwise. Additionally from the Ork perspective, GW gave us a shiny new tool to help us compete. Non Ork players, by saying that 6s should be a core mechanic are also saying that they want half the rule to apply to them as well. so by suggesting this, the Ork players then want to know what suggestion should be substituted in addition to the additional hit rolls on 6s for trying to take a rule that applies exclusively to them and distributing it to other armies. I hope I explained why people on the Orks side are saying there should be an additional benefit for essentially applying their rule to everyone.
Now explain why grots get the rule. Not only do they always hit on 6s but they also get extra shots, despite not having the BS problem of orks and without having such a high volume of shots.
Also, humans are perfectly capable of "spraying and praying", since we invented the term. Besides, shootas do not fire more than a punisher cannon, yet the punisher cannon does not get the rule.
Rokkits only get one shot before being reloaded but they always hit on 6s.
So no, rate of fire is not a valid argument for only orks getting the rule seeing as it is inconsistent.
Second, there is no reason to compensate ork players for sharing an otherwise free rule. You still get to keep the other part of the rule.
In addition, we aren't stealing the orks rule. We are saying it should have simply been a core rule like FLY or 1s always miss. No one wants to steal Mob Rule, because that defines the army. Hitting on 6s hasn't even been a thing yet, and so doesn't define orks. This ownership of the rule is baffling.
And, did anyone get mad when Fire Prisms got Pulsed Laser Discharge, even though it was basically Grinding Advance? No. Why? Because Fire Prisms needed the rule to not be garbage, just like how Russes needed the rule to not be garbage. And I don't see Guard players asking for compensation. In fact, a lot of people just assumed it would apply to every tank, until it didn't.
So now the question remains, why should other factions have the rule at all?
Simple, the exact same reason Orks got the rule: not being able to hit something is not fun. And guess what? Degrading profiles are a thing. Orks don't really have to deal with it for range, but when a Russ loses 6 wounds it's now shooting like an ork. When a Ghostkeel lose 5 wounds, it shoots like an ork etc...
Why would everyone getting a ruling for "unmodified 6s are always hits" equate to Orks needing to be better?
You'd still be the only ones with the "immediately roll an additional hit roll against the same target".
Why would everyone need the 'everyone hits on 6s' rule?
Are Orks getting orders and the ability to soup with any Imperium army? If we're all sharing each other's unique rules now....
I'll try to word this in a way that makes sense to both player bases. I myself am an ork player, but I do have other armies. The Problem with the lines of thinking is this: Non Ork armies are looking at it from a rules stand point that it should be a core mechanic that 6s always hit. However if you move to the fluff side of things, the Ork player is only hitting automatically on 6s because of the "volume of shots the ork army is supposedly able to put out". Other factions do not have this volume therefore should not automatically hit on 6s. even if it makes sense rules-wise it doesn't make sense fluffwise. Additionally from the Ork perspective, GW gave us a shiny new tool to help us compete. Non Ork players, by saying that 6s should be a core mechanic are also saying that they want half the rule to apply to them as well. so by suggesting this, the Ork players then want to know what suggestion should be substituted in addition to the additional hit rolls on 6s for trying to take a rule that applies exclusively to them and distributing it to other armies. I hope I explained why people on the Orks side are saying there should be an additional benefit for essentially applying their rule to everyone.
Now explain why grots get the rule. Not only do they always hit on 6s but they also get extra shots, despite not having the BS problem of orks and without having such a high volume of shots.
Also, humans are perfectly capable of "spraying and praying", since we invented the term. Besides, shootas do not fire more than a punisher cannon, yet the punisher cannon does not get the rule.
Rokkits only get one shot before being reloaded but they always hit on 6s.
So no, rate of fire is not a valid argument for only orks getting the rule seeing as it is inconsistent.
Second, there is no reason to compensate ork players for sharing an otherwise free rule. You still get to keep the other part of the rule.
In addition, we aren't stealing the orks rule. We are saying it should have simply been a core rule like FLY or 1s always miss. No one wants to steal Mob Rule, because that defines the army. Hitting on 6s hasn't even been a thing yet, and so doesn't define orks. This ownership of the rule is baffling.
And, did anyone get mad when Fire Prisms got Pulsed Laser Discharge, even though it was basically Grinding Advance? No. Why? Because Fire Prisms needed the rule to not be garbage, just like how Russes needed the rule to not be garbage. And I don't see Guard players asking for compensation. In fact, a lot of people just assumed it would apply to every tank, until it didn't.
So now the question remains, why should other factions have the rule at all?
Simple, the exact same reason Orks got the rule: not being able to hit something is not fun. And guess what? Degrading profiles are a thing. Orks don't really have to deal with it for range, but when a Russ loses 6 wounds it's now shooting like an ork. When a Ghostkeel lose 5 wounds, it shoots like an ork etc...
Because they do have the volume fluffwise. Think of the max size of grot units. It's still 30. In the fluff swarms of grots still do litter the battlefield.
1) Almost all armies are built to hit on 4+ natively, they hit -2 to hit on sixes anyways.
2) No one has yet provided a reason why the rule is needed by anyone but orks, while plenty of people have shown why tau, IG or nids don't need it to handle the occasional -3 to hit model.
1) Degrading profiles and heavy weapons exist.
2) Except it's the same reason why orks get it: not being able to hit is not fun. And no, the arguments against other factions getting it have been super weak which is why no one has changed their mind yet. You yourself gave the reason that a basilisk should not be able to hit a voidraven. But what about a hydra? Chip off some wounds and now it's a paperweight, unable to contribute. Take some wounds off a Riptide and boom... useless. You don't even need to kill them.
And you've claimed that "bad game design" is not an argument, so tell me why should Orks always hit on 6s? Because I can guarantee you that anything you say can be boiled down to "bad game design". The majority of orks not being able to hit... is bad game design. Why is it bad game design? Because it's no fun. It's frustrating.
Because they do have the volume fluffwise. Think of the max size of grot units. It's still 30. In the fluff swarms of grots still do litter the battlefield.
Galef wrote: Exatly. Armies with 4+ to hit normally may also have Heavy weapons. Meaning moving to get in range may result in not being able to hit at all against -2 to hit.
Damn, I guess positioning and tactics might become somewhat more important with these things considered. If you're scared of a flyer I suppose you'll have to position your anti-flyer weapons in an intelligent way so you don't have to move to hit them. What a shame.
Galef wrote: Natural 6s should always hit for every army. Orks get the additional rule that those 6s will also generate extra shots. Orks are also designed to have more shots anyway, so even without the extra shots rule, they would benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.
You obviously know little about current Orks. There are many armies in the game as it is right now that dish out a hell of a lot more shots than Orks. We should be known for our dakka but unfortunately that's not how it pans out in game. So no, we don't benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.
Here's an idea - we give every unit in the game the ability to always hit on 6s, but their price is adjusted (upwards) to compensate for the buff they've just received. Sound fair?
Dandelion wrote: 1) Degrading profiles and heavy weapons exist.
2) Except it's the same reason why orks get it: not being able to hit is not fun.
But IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR OTHER ARMIES ASIT IS FOR ORKS. There are only edge cases where the rule will even come into play for any other faction than Orks. You also haven't paid for the rule. It's not factored in to the cost of the unit and you want to give it to every single one. Naaaah. Not unless you're happy to pay.
Dandelion wrote: And no, the arguments against other factions getting it have been super weak which is why no one has changed their mind yet. You yourself gave the reason that a basilisk should not be able to hit a voidraven. But what about a hydra? Chip off some wounds and now it's a paperweight, unable to contribute. Take some wounds off a Riptide and boom... useless. You don't even need to kill them.
How many wounds do you need to take off those units to make them unable to hit *certain targets*? Funny that you consider the tons of arguments leveled against what you believe, one of which is above, "super weak". Almost like you're totally biased. As I said earlier to Kanluwen - if you want our stuff (and it is our rule, it's been stated by GW to be our rule) then it's only fair we have your rules. I'll take those orders please.
Dandelion wrote: And you've claimed that "bad game design" is not an argument, so tell me why should Orks always hit on 6s? Because I can guarantee you that anything you say can be boiled down to "bad game design". The majority of orks not being able to hit... is bad game design. Why is it bad game design? Because it's no fun. It's frustrating.
It's perhaps not bad game design that I am able to almost kill a tank and it can't hit my most protected units. Perhaps the majority of Ork units being unable to hit anything FOR AN ENTIRE PHASE is somewhat bad game design, in comparison to your one, or two edge cases? I think it might be the case, somehow.
To problem of 6's always hitting as a general rule is that the game wasn't designed with that in mind.
For example, from 6th to 8th, one change was for everybody to wound on 6's. That, with all the buffs to hordes, make big models (Unless they where bonkers OP stuff like the High Elf fenix) much less survivable, because you could end up killing a Dragon with your 60 man goblin horde just by rolling 6's. And I know this is the "Infantry Squads killing landraiders with lasguns" all over again, but is a big change.
The way to remove the problem with to-hit modifiers is not to make everything hit on 6's. Is to remove the -1 to hit at 12" traits.
Vineheart01 wrote: actually i could see Grots not having the DDD rule.
They have a BS4+ after all. They actually try to aim..to a degree
I applaud your consistency. Thank you.
(I will also take this moment to take back anything bad I said about Ork players in general, I was frustrated at the time so I apologize for being too harsh)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
An Actual Englishman wrote: You also haven't paid for the rule. It's not factored in to the cost of the unit and you want to give it to every single one. Naaaah. Not unless you're happy to pay.
Galef wrote: Exatly. Armies with 4+ to hit normally may also have Heavy weapons. Meaning moving to get in range may result in not being able to hit at all against -2 to hit.
Damn, I guess positioning and tactics might become somewhat more important with these things considered. If you're scared of a flyer I suppose you'll have to position your anti-flyer weapons in an intelligent way so you don't have to move to hit them. What a shame.
Who the heck brings "anti-flyer weapons"? As in dedicated anti-flyer weapons, like Hydras? They either don't have the shots necessary to be scary, they don't have the BS to deal with anything that has the ability to get the -2s, or they're extremely points heavy and make your army inflexible. The "anti-flyer weapons" for many armies are extremely lackluster even considering the buff they've received in applying to anything with the "Fly" keyword now.
And let's be 100% clear here: We're talking about Eldar flyers with your silly example. They're the only ones currently who can do that, because Alaitoc Wraithfighters and Crimson Hunters are a thing.
Galef wrote: Natural 6s should always hit for every army. Orks get the additional rule that those 6s will also generate extra shots. Orks are also designed to have more shots anyway, so even without the extra shots rule, they would benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.
You obviously know little about current Orks. There are many armies in the game as it is right now that dish out a hell of a lot more shots than Orks. We should be known for our dakka but unfortunately that's not how it pans out in game. So no, we don't benefit more from natural 6s than many other armies.
What armies "dish out a hell of a lot more shots than Orks"? Are they Guard and Tau? Because those are shooting armies. And even then, they have some units like the Hydra which is known for "filling the air" with shots, taking a brute force method to bring down flyers...and those are limited to 8 shots.
You're also ignoring that most Ork weaponry is(and likely will remain) Assault, meaning you'll be firing full shots for the most part. You won't be requiring the enemy to close with you or you with the enemy or remaining stationary to get the most output.
Here's an idea - we give every unit in the game the ability to always hit on 6s, but their price is adjusted (upwards) to compensate for the buff they've just received. Sound fair?
No, because you're assuming that your points have gone up specifically because of this rule. No matter what happens when the Ork book drops, the assumption from you and some others will be that points went up because of D^3.
Until we know for sure that D^3 actually is changing points costs--the only real discussion or concession that others want is the "always hit on 6s". Nobody is asking for it to apply specifically to shooting, but rather for it to be a blanket rule for both shooting & combat.
Dakkadakka shouldn't make Ork units more expensive... because if a unit is bad... you give it a buff in the form of rules... and then you make it more expensive... you keep it bad.
Is the same as when people say that "Ok, lets make this OP unit more expensive, but lets give it this X buffs to compensante"... thats... not the point of a nerf.
Warhammer Community wrote:Previously seen as a Stratagem in Chapter Approved 2017, we’ve added this as a special rule on EVERY Orks unit that works ALL the time. You’ll never, ever hit on worse than a 6 – and you’ll get an extra shooting attack for free when you do so. If you believe in yourself, you can hit anything…
You've seen the points for everything in the ork codex then?
Galef wrote:
Who the heck brings "anti-flyer weapons"? As in dedicated anti-flyer weapons, like Hydras? They either don't have the shots necessary to be scary, they don't have the BS to deal with anything that has the ability to get the -2s, or they're extremely points heavy and make your army inflexible. The "anti-flyer weapons" for many armies are extremely lackluster even considering the buff they've received in applying to anything with the "Fly" keyword now.
And let's be 100% clear here: We're talking about Eldar flyers with your silly example. They're the only ones currently who can do that, because Alaitoc Wraithfighters and Crimson Hunters are a thing.
Where did I say anything about dedicated AA weapons? I'm on about whatever weapon is your weapon of choice for AA in your current list.
What armies "dish out a hell of a lot more shots than Orks"? Are they Guard and Tau? Because those are shooting armies. And even then, they have some units like the Hydra which is known for "filling the air" with shots, taking a brute force method to bring down flyers...and those are limited to 8 shots.
You're also ignoring that most Ork weaponry is(and likely will remain) Assault, meaning you'll be firing full shots for the most part. You won't be requiring the enemy to close with you or you with the enemy or remaining stationary to get the most output.
Pretty much every faction has the capacity to pump out a ton more shots than Orks. Pick any faction. Aggressors. Other factions tanks. IK. Etc etc etc Maybe you should name an Ork unit that puts out more dakka than the above?
I haven't forgotten our weapons are assault. Its hard to forget when you lose half your shots for using the 'benefit'. Conversely our weapons gain no more shots when we close the distance and have very limited range compared to other equivalents.
Galef wrote: No, because you're assuming that your points have gone up specifically because of this rule. No matter what happens when the Ork book drops, the assumption from you and some others will be that points went up because of D^3.
Until we know for sure that D^3 actually is changing points costs--the only real discussion or concession that others want is the "always hit on 6s". Nobody is asking for it to apply specifically to shooting, but rather for it to be a blanket rule for both shooting & combat.
No, I'm assuming that GW has balanced our points costs for all of our units knowing they had this rule. The same is not true of any other unit in the game that now wants it for free. If you want a buff, you must pay for the buff in some way unless you can prove that the unit needs the buff and is underpowered because of it.
I've seen no one prove this. I've seen no one willing to accept an increase in cost for the buff. Other armies don't need the rule as Orks do, the need is simply not there. It seems they just want a slice of another factions' rules for no reason. Cool, I'll take eldar flying tanks and bikes and AM orders please.
I'm reading a lot of bitching about orks being the only ones to hit on 6s.
Rhetorical question, why dont all armies have the same and equal rules? Because GW say so. It's their trainset after all.
You can wham on about punisher cannons and other rubbish as much as you like, frankly the fluff is irrelevant. Orks have this rule because GW gave orks this rule, that's the long and short of it.
r_squared wrote: I'm reading a lot of bitching about orks being the only ones to hit on 6s.
Rhetorical question, why dont all armies have the same and equal rules? Because GW say so. It's their trainset after all.
You can wham on about punisher cannons and other rubbish as much as you like, frankly the fluff is irrelevant. Orks have this rule because GW gave orks this rule, that's the long and short of it.
Want to enjoy this rule, play orks.
So GW giving Eldar -2 to hit flyers is totally cool and we shouldn't criticize it? You know, since it's their train set. I mean, if you take that line of thinking then there's no point in discussing anything rules wise at all.
Warhammer Community wrote:Previously seen as a Stratagem in Chapter Approved 2017, we’ve added this as a special rule on EVERY Orks unit that works ALL the time. You’ll never, ever hit on worse than a 6 – and you’ll get an extra shooting attack for free when you do so. If you believe in yourself, you can hit anything…
Some things don't need the Codex to be seen.
"Orks unit" doesn't necessarily include Grots. It probably does, since it says Orks units and nor Ork units but I'd not be certain until I see the ruletext. Waagh and mob rule didn't apply to grots for to take an example from previous codexi and I could see someone describing those rules as every Orks unit having it.
EDIT: As Dandelion points out, the Bubblechukka seems to be explicitly mentioned. So it's fair to assume the rule will apply to grots as well.
"Orks unit" doesn't necessarily include Grots. It probably does, since it says Orks units and nor Ork units but I'd not be certain until I see the ruletext. Waagh and mob rule didn't apply to grots for to take an example from previous codexi and I could see someone describing those rules as every Orks unit having it.
Again, bubblechukka is specifically mentioned. See above.
They could very easily release another 10-15 dollar single sprue kit with the bitz to put bubblechukka, smasha gun, and traktor kannon onto a battlewagon. It would slot into the kannon turret anyway. Would anyone buy it? Probably not lol
r_squared wrote: I'm reading a lot of bitching about orks being the only ones to hit on 6s.
Rhetorical question, why dont all armies have the same and equal rules? Because GW say so. It's their trainset after all.
Unrhetorical response: It's because we literally have under Hit Rolls that 1s always fail.
You can wham on about punisher cannons and other rubbish as much as you like, frankly the fluff is irrelevant. Orks have this rule because GW gave orks this rule, that's the long and short of it.
Want to enjoy this rule, play orks.
I would if I wanted natural 6s to trigger additional hits certainly!
As mentioned, since 1s specifically are called out as "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply" it is not entirely unreasonable to ask for the inverse to be true as well.
"Orks unit" doesn't necessarily include Grots. It probably does, since it says Orks units and nor Ork units but I'd not be certain until I see the ruletext. Waagh and mob rule didn't apply to grots for to take an example from previous codexi and I could see someone describing those rules as every Orks unit having it.
EDIT: As Dandelion points out, the Bubblechukka seems to be explicitly mentioned. So it's fair to assume the rule will apply to grots as well.
Rules text won't clarify anything. It's a rule for the book proper and likely will either say preceding it that everything has it or it will be specifically posted on units to which it applies(which since they say "EVERY Orks Units" suggests this won't be the case).
They could very easily release another 10-15 dollar single sprue kit with the bitz to put bubblechukka, smasha gun, and traktor kannon onto a battlewagon. It would slot into the kannon turret anyway.
Would anyone buy it? Probably not lol
tneva82 wrote: Because no unit in the game should end up in impossible to hit. Only total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist would think that's good idea. No wonder thus GW has introduced such an idea.
You are so right, tneva! No unit should be impossible to hit!
Except units that are out of LOS.
Or units that are out of range.
Or units in combat.
Or characters behind a screen.
I presume these conditions were designed by "rookie game designers" also?
Do you also object to these 4 cases?
No. Naturally not those four.
If there are 4 cases where I can keep you from shooting at me, why can't there be five? Does the world end if there are five, tneva?
So GW giving Eldar -2 to hit flyers is totally cool and we shouldn't criticize it? You know, since it's their train set. I mean, if you take that line of thinking then there's no point in discussing anything rules wise at all.
I mean, all other armies can still hit an Eldar Flyer at -2. orks are the only army where they would not be able to with 90% of their army or more for the entire game
Warhammer Community wrote:Previously seen as a Stratagem in Chapter Approved 2017, we’ve added this as a special rule on EVERY Orks unit that works ALL the time. You’ll never, ever hit on worse than a 6 – and you’ll get an extra shooting attack for free when you do so. If you believe in yourself, you can hit anything…
tneva82 wrote: Because no unit in the game should end up in impossible to hit. Only total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist would think that's good idea. No wonder thus GW has introduced such an idea.
You are so right, tneva! No unit should be impossible to hit!
Except units that are out of LOS.
Or units that are out of range.
Or units in combat.
Or characters behind a screen.
I presume these conditions were designed by "rookie game designers" also?
Do you also object to these 4 cases?
No. Naturally not those four.
If there are 4 cases where I can keep you from shooting at me, why can't there be five? Does the world end if there are five, tneva?
Depends, are we keeping the "always fail on a 1" in?
So GW giving Eldar -2 to hit flyers is totally cool and we shouldn't criticize it? You know, since it's their train set. I mean, if you take that line of thinking then there's no point in discussing anything rules wise at all.
I mean, all other armies can still hit an Eldar Flyer at -2. orks are the only army where they would not be able to with 90% of their army or more for the entire game
I'm not comparing anything to orks in that statement, just pointing out that "roll with it" undoes 90% of all rules discussions. the last 10% being YMDD.
So, to bring it back to orks, if the codex ends up sucking would I be reasonable to suggest that you not criticize the rules, since it's GW's train set?
I'd say it'd be rather unreasonable, just like that fellow's statement that I replied to.
I remember in old threads when discussing the problem of negative to hit modifiers and orks I would get irritated when people would write things along the lines of 'just charge them, orks are a melee army anyway'.
It's true that for pretty much every other army it's an edge case and not nearly as likely as with orks, but it seems like those edge cases are very easily solved by the addition of the small rule that 6s always hit. I don't think it's strictly necessary, but at the same time I see basically no cost to doing so.
1) Almost all armies are built to hit on 4+ natively, they hit -2 to hit on sixes anyways.
1) Degrading profiles and heavy weapons exist.
Degraded models are supposed to be worse than non degraded models. That's the whole point.
If you need your heavy weapons to hit stuff, don't move them. That's how it's supposed to be.
2) Except it's the same reason why orks get it: not being able to hit is not fun.
You obviously have not understood why orks have gotten the rule in the first place. You have already voided all your arguments.
And no, the arguments against other factions getting it have been super weak which is why no one has changed their mind yet. You yourself gave the reason that a basilisk should not be able to hit a voidraven. But what about a hydra? Chip off some wounds and now it's a paperweight, unable to contribute. Take some wounds off a Riptide and boom... useless. You don't even need to kill them.
"Chip of some wounds a hydra" = blow 9 out of 11 wounds off a tank and it can't hit -2 fliers.
"Take some wounds off a riptide" = remove 8 wounds off a T7 model with a 2+/5++ that can be boosted to 2+/3++ and kill both it's drones and it's useless. Unless, of course, you just take a velocity tracker, then you don't give a damn about degrading.
Let's see how many wounds you have to take off a battlewagon in order to make it useless. Ah, right, zero.
Warbuggies and wartrakks? Zero.
Gorkanaut or Morkanaut? Zero.
Koptas? Zero!
Trukk? Zero!
Deff dread? Zero.
Stompa? Zero.
Tank bustas, lootas, shoota boyz, nobz, warbikers, big mek with SAG? Zero!
According to you these units are "paperweight, unable to contribute, useless, you don't even need to kill them." That's 75% of our datasheeets at deployment.
In no way does this compare to a hydra with 2 wounds left needing to hit allaitoc planes on sixes.
And you've claimed that "bad game design" is not an argument, so tell me why should Orks always hit on 6s? Because I can guarantee you that anything you say can be boiled down to "bad game design". The majority of orks not being able to hit... is bad game design. Why is it bad game design? Because it's no fun. It's frustrating.
Entire armies made up of -2 to hit models can be fielded and are fielded. A well rounded ork army made of nothing but shooting units cannot shoot its opponent with as much as a single unit. Every single unit fails to perform it's primary function, just because what your opponent fielded.
We don't have tau commanders or hive tyrants that can just hit those things on 4+ anyways.
We can't just shoot the other models that are not degraded in order to hit something.
We can't just not move our heavy weapon and have them shoot at something else.
We can't buy upgrades, use stratagems or buff our units with psychic powers to hit anyways.
We simply can't shoot.
A shooting army not being able to shoot is a very good argument.
Oh, and if you answer this with "orks are not a shooting army", I'll find a way to fill your intestines with snotlings.
Because they do have the volume fluffwise. Think of the max size of grot units. It's still 30. In the fluff swarms of grots still do litter the battlefield.
So Guard should get the rule then?
We don't know if gretchin actually get the rule. They don't get 'ere we go or mob rule either.
Army wide rules often don't appear on all datasheets.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: I remember in old threads when discussing the problem of negative to hit modifiers and orks I would get irritated when people would write things along the lines of 'just charge them, orks are a melee army anyway'.
It's true that for pretty much every other army it's an edge case and not nearly as likely as with orks, but it seems like those edge cases are very easily solved by the addition of the small rule that 6s always hit. I don't think it's strictly necessary, but at the same time I see basically no cost to doing so.
We don't know if gretchin actually get the rule. They don't get 'ere we go or mob rule either.
Army wide rules often don't appear on all datasheets.
Except it specifically mentions the bubblechukka in the rule itself. So unless orks get some snazzy new ork-manned mekguns, then it applies to gretchin.
tneva82 wrote: Because no unit in the game should end up in impossible to hit. Only total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist would think that's good idea. No wonder thus GW has introduced such an idea.
You are so right, tneva! No unit should be impossible to hit!
Except units that are out of LOS.
Or units that are out of range.
Or units in combat.
Or characters behind a screen.
I presume these conditions were designed by "rookie game designers" also?
Do you also object to these 4 cases?
No. Naturally not those four.
If there are 4 cases where I can keep you from shooting at me, why can't there be five? Does the world end if there are five, tneva?
Depends, are we keeping the "always fail on a 1" in?
Yep.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a unit out of LOS.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a unit beyond your weapon range.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a unit that is in combat.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a character behind a screen.
Not being able to hit A FEW units by A FEW of your units is not the end of the game.
tneva82 wrote: Because no unit in the game should end up in impossible to hit. Only total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist would think that's good idea. No wonder thus GW has introduced such an idea.
You are so right, tneva! No unit should be impossible to hit!
Except units that are out of LOS.
Or units that are out of range.
Or units in combat.
Or characters behind a screen.
I presume these conditions were designed by "rookie game designers" also?
Do you also object to these 4 cases?
No. Naturally not those four.
If there are 4 cases where I can keep you from shooting at me, why can't there be five? Does the world end if there are five, tneva?
Depends, are we keeping the "always fail on a 1" in?
Yep.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a unit out of LOS.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a unit beyond your weapon range.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a unit that is in combat.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a character behind a screen.
Not being able to hit A FEW units by A FEW of your units is not the end of the game.
IT IS THE GAME.
Get over it.
Units out of LoS, beyond range, in combat, or characters being screened are all game conditions that are a result of positioning on the table that can be interacted with and countered.
-2+ to hit is usually a case of list building and/or strategem use which cannot be countered or responded to.
Not being able to hit A FEW units by A FEW of your units is not the end of the game.
When did anyone say it was the end of the game? I've mostly been arguing out of principle.
In any case, this issue should not have been as contentious as it is considering how minute the change would be. I would have thought that "everyone hits on 6s" to be fairly neutral but... I guess not.
But your reasons are your own, and mine are mine so there's really no point in dragging this on.
On a more positive note, I am actually glad that orks did get the rule in the first place, and I hope it points to a better codex with shooting and melee both being viable and useful. I've got some Orks laying around that I could probably paint as Bad Moonz or Freebootaz (my faves) now that their shooting seems substantial. (here's hoping flash gits and lootas get a nice boost of some kind)
Oh, and I really hope they release a new deffkopta. I love the idea of it... the model not so much. It'd tie in really nicely with the buggies (which are also hella dope).
tneva82 wrote: Because no unit in the game should end up in impossible to hit. Only total rookie game designer with zero idea on what good game consist would think that's good idea. No wonder thus GW has introduced such an idea.
You are so right, tneva! No unit should be impossible to hit!
Except units that are out of LOS.
Or units that are out of range.
Or units in combat.
Or characters behind a screen.
I presume these conditions were designed by "rookie game designers" also?
Do you also object to these 4 cases?
No. Naturally not those four.
If there are 4 cases where I can keep you from shooting at me, why can't there be five? Does the world end if there are five, tneva?
Depends, are we keeping the "always fail on a 1" in?
Yep.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a unit out of LOS.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a unit beyond your weapon range.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a unit that is in combat.
Always fail on a one does not help you hit a character behind a screen.
Not being able to hit A FEW units by A FEW of your units is not the end of the game.
IT IS THE GAME.
Get over it.
Units out of LoS, beyond range, in combat, or characters being screened are all game conditions that are a result of positioning on the table that can be interacted with and countered.
-2+ to hit is usually a case of list building and/or strategem use which cannot be countered or responded to.
Yes and no. A baneblade parked at the end of the board invites suicide units to run up and try to shoot it...but that isn't really countering it, is it?
Characters being screened are not hittable if your army has no snipers. Killing the entire opponent's army just to get the character is a little silly, isn't it?
Most things with -3 or worse to hit are only immune in the shooting phase, so you can always assault them. This is way easier than killing Girlyman behind a baneblade screened by guardsmen by an army with no snipers...no?
There's no point discussing the always hit on 6s rule anymore.
GW will do what GW do and that will be that. Compared to other balances they need to make introducing this rule game-wide is fairly insubstantial. They have far greater balance concerns imo.
Anyway this thread is about Orktober and our new releases, not a rules debate.
We believe we've got 2 buggies/vehicles left to see;
Scrap jet
Ruck a truck squig buggy
Which do we think we're going to see previewed first? When do we think we'll see them? Keen to see what these squig buggies are.
GW have said that the new Ork releases aren't just vehicles and I think they said Ghazzy might get a new model. What else do people think we'll see?
I don't think there are any large events where they could preview stuff between now and end of Orktober so realistically we have to wait until September 29 before getting any Ork news IMO.
And even then I'd wager that's the preorder date for Speed Freeks so the previews will be for that. By Orktober 6th I think we'll be drowning in Ork previews though
Any educated guesses for the cost of Speed Freeks?
It includes 6 bikes so that’s £48 (2 warbiker mob boxes x £24)
And
2 new war buggies which I’m guessing will retail for something like £22.50 each? (the same as other vehicles like Ork Truck, Rhino, Chimera) or maybe £29 like the Taurox? Or even £35 like the Goliath Truck?
And
Terrain £?
And Boards/counters/dice etc £?
Honestly I think £80 is on the higher end of likely prices, since that's how much the Kill Team starter set is. I wouldn't be surprised if it's slightly less than that to be honest.
PiñaColada wrote: Honestly I think £80 is on the higher end of likely prices, since that's how much the Kill Team starter set is. I wouldn't be surprised if it's slightly less than that to be honest.
If it's £90 I'd be very surprised
£80 is definitely not the higher end.
Could you imagine it being £60 or £70!? That’s insane. Though I’d love it for the amount of free stuff we’d get.
You have to remember it’s a GW boxed game, with rules and everything you need to play, not a start collecting Speed Orks.
I’d say £80-£90, depending on the price of the new vehicles, more likely £80 if I was throwing a guess in, but that’s the lower end I’d say.
Vehicles are probably £30 each unfortunately, which would make it one buggy and all the terrain/rules free
PiñaColada wrote: Honestly I think £80 is on the higher end of likely prices, since that's how much the Kill Team starter set is. I wouldn't be surprised if it's slightly less than that to be honest.
If it's £90 I'd be very surprised
£80 is definitely not the higher end.
Could you imagine it being £60 or £70!? That’s insane. Though I’d love it for the amount of free stuff we’d get.
You have to remember it’s a GW boxed game, with rules and everything you need to play, not a start collecting Speed Orks.
I’d say £80-£90, depending on the price of the new vehicles, more likely £80 if I was throwing a guess in, but that’s the lower end I’d say.
Vehicles are probably £30 each unfortunately, which would make it one buggy and all the terrain/rules free
So is kill team and I'd argue that you get more stuff in that than this. A (most likely) way more fleshed out rulebook and a lot of terrain. If I had to guess a price I'd say it's £80 but I don't really see why it'd be higher than that. And considering you get 2 armigers for £45 I think the buggies will end up being the same or slightly less.
I'm just saying that I can't imagine any scenario where you don't at least get everything in the box sans the actual models for "free". So essentially it could be £90 I guess but I highly doubt it. If it's £100 then I imagine a lot of people will simply wait until they standalone release the buggies since a lot of us already have quite a few bikes.
Danny76 wrote: Vehicles are probably £30 each unfortunately, which would make it one buggy and all the terrain/rules free
I hope not. Orks really don't need another unit where you have to pay £0.50 per point or more. Two buggies for £30 would be acceptable to me. Making them more expensive than trukks just means I will be kit-bashing them out of trukks.
Yeah but Kill team is just two squads, then terrain. The Speed Freeks box has that in the form of bikes really, but then two full vehicles on top.
Definitely won’t have as good a rule book as Kill Team, that is a big and in depth tome for sure.
But 6 terrain pieces take up a good bit of the space terrain from KT.
Looking at other Gw game boxes, it’s a similar amount for £80+
Danny76 wrote: Vehicles are probably £30 each unfortunately, which would make it one buggy and all the terrain/rules free
I hope not. Orks really don't need another unit where you have to pay £0.50 per point or more. Two buggies for £30 would be acceptable to me. Making them more expensive than trukks just means I will be kit-bashing them out of trukks.
2 for £30 no way.
Maybe, I mean maybe, same price as the trukks, but really it’s a new kit, I’d be looking at their newer kits for prices.
As we all know it’s never about the amount of plastic used unfortunately..
Also though, they are pretty much the size of a trukk though right, just lower set to the ground obviously, but length wise.
But if you were to buy the terrain separately it's the equivalent of the Sector Imperialis Administratum & Sector Imperialis Ruins kit which combined has a price tag of £52.5. Obviously you do get some terrain (though nowhere near the same quantity or quality) in the Speed Freeks box though.
In my mind KT is a waaaay better deal if they're both £80 but maybe GW gives a better discount on that box in order to push KT. I doubt they're looking at the game Speed Freeks as a money maker whereas KT certainly has that potential.
Edit: And yeah, 2 buggies for £30 is ambitious but I think they very well could be 2 for £40 and they're done in the same manner as armigers. Meaning one box can't construct all the different variants.
Danny76 wrote: As we all know it’s never about the amount of plastic used unfortunately..
It seems to be kind of based on their power on the table / points value. Characters are really expensive per model in both points and money, elite units fairly expensive for both, etc. Unfortunately it seems that small vehicles like the Taurox and the Goliath don't follow that pattern and orks have the ridiculously overpriced Mek Guns as a precedent.
Yeah I guess.
I suppose time will tell Cheaper the better for me, though I doubt I’ll get it. I don’t need any more bikes and my case has no room for more vehicles anyway
Danny76 wrote: As we all know it’s never about the amount of plastic used unfortunately..
It seems to be kind of based on their power on the table / points value. Characters are really expensive per model in both points and money, elite units fairly expensive for both, etc. Unfortunately it seems that small vehicles like the Taurox and the Goliath don't follow that pattern and orks have the ridiculously overpriced Mek Guns as a precedent.
Obviously we all hope I'm right and it's cheaper than most seem to expect! But consider this; Imperial Knights Renegade sold for £120 and consisted of:
1 Sector Mechanicus Galvanic Magnavent £45
1 Knight Errant £85
1 Knight Warden £95
1 Rulebook, which is probably roughly the same size as Speed Freeks and some dice
That's £225 worth of plastic in a £120 box because they wanted people to start playing IK by giving them a "throwaway" game as an excuse to give a bundle a significant discount. I think Speed Freeks is meant to be the same thing. Get people to start a Kult of Speed army by giving them a new game but most of all, a great bundle
im fully expecting the speedfreaks box to be about 130USD. How the individual buggy box will be priced will depend on how they box it. If its seriously "one box, make five different buggies!" then were looking at Firewarrior issues of a box that is virtually TWICE the price of what you get per model just because of the excess sprus. Course, upside, i have like....7? trukk chassis lying around and since these are so similar in size i could probably kitbash the others using trukk chassis lol... If theyre boxed that way, 75USD....because they can get away with it. If theyre individually boxed or in "pairs" then probably around 50USD.
I hope for a Gangs of Comorrhag (or however the panzies spell it) situation. Not as extreme, but with £80 as the upper limit, not the low end. Bikes *could* be inclided to "boost" the value beyond 60/70/80 by being the discounted item basically, because those sprues must cost them next to nothing. Even less if they disn't use newly coloured sprues done for this. RT is 80 I think, so this is my guess here as well.
Hoping for a decent price on the standalone vehicles, but I have a feeling they'll be pretty expensive - like the Beast of Nurgle was way more than expected. The Boss on trike has to be more than a Trukk.
I hope they get back on hyping the upcoming releases soon. I’ve really become quite a fan of KillTeam and there has been no indication of any crossover, so I am increasingly looking forward to the smaller scale game releases as opposed to full on 40K sized games. Like many other long time Ork players, I’m not sure I need 6 more bikes, so it’s not terribly likely the box will hold a lot of value for me unless the rules are solid and the game is a super deal. I may just save my money and get the warboss and any other stuff I don’t already have tons of.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Units out of LoS, beyond range, in combat, or characters being screened are all game conditions that are a result of positioning on the table that can be interacted with and countered.
-2+ to hit is usually a case of list building and/or strategem use which cannot be countered or responded to.
The only way to reach more than -2 to hit is by using a stratagem or a psychic power. All armies can counter psychic powers, and -3 to hit can still be countered by models with BS3+ or better, auto-hitting weapons, weapons that hit on a specific roll independent of modifiers, smite and by moving within 12" to counter the army trait.
-3 and -4 to hit has just as much counter-play as the character rule or LOS units. Except you can't have an entire army out of LOS without downside all game and an army made of by nothing but characters was already errata'ed because it was causing problems.
In addition, Cloud of Flies is a stratagem that prevents you from shooting a unit unless its the closest to the firing unit, effectively making it immune from being shot. I don't see calls for that getting the axe.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Units out of LoS, beyond range, in combat, or characters being screened are all game conditions that are a result of positioning on the table that can be interacted with and countered.
-2+ to hit is usually a case of list building and/or strategem use which cannot be countered or responded to.
All armies can counter psychic powers.
Explain what anti-psy capabilities Tau have, and how necron anti-psy capabilities are effective.
I do wonder if the Warboss trike is a dual kit for a skorcha or modern name equivalent. (Supa Dakka Squig Skorcha or whatever it's called.)
If the rumours from Hastings are right and these kits are packed with enough bits to make a lot of combinations, I think a price point over a Trukk will be more likely. (But also, I'm seeing the Mekk gunz formula, where one option can only be made, so you're left with a ton of bits.)
Vineheart01 wrote: How the individual buggy box will be priced will depend on how they box it. If its seriously "one box, make five different buggies!" then were looking at Firewarrior issues of a box that is virtually TWICE the price of what you get per model just because of the excess sprus.
Course, upside, i have like....7? trukk chassis lying around and since these are so similar in size i could probably kitbash the others using trukk chassis lol...
I see how the tons of extra bits in the Fire Warrior box (and its higher price than most other basic infantry boxes) is a problem for Tau players.
On the other hand, as Ork players those extra bits probably won't go to waste. I'm really hoping that we don't get stuck with boxes with extremely limited options. The new Knights have me a little worried in this regard, but the Hastings rumor was for tons of adaptability and I think some of the new Death Guard units had a decent number of options, right?
Vineheart01 wrote: How the individual buggy box will be priced will depend on how they box it. If its seriously "one box, make five different buggies!" then were looking at Firewarrior issues of a box that is virtually TWICE the price of what you get per model just because of the excess sprus.
Course, upside, i have like....7? trukk chassis lying around and since these are so similar in size i could probably kitbash the others using trukk chassis lol...
I see how the tons of extra bits in the Fire Warrior box (and its higher price than most other basic infantry boxes) is a problem for Tau players.
On the other hand, as Ork players those extra bits probably won't go to waste. I'm really hoping that we don't get stuck with boxes with extremely limited options. The new Knights have me a little worried in this regard, but the Hastings rumor was for tons of adaptability and I think some of the new Death Guard units had a decent number of options, right?
Technically, true. Especially since theyd be mechanical bitz not arms.
Arm bits are pretty difficult to re-purpose imo.
After all part of the reason i have so many trukk sprues lying around is for this very reason lol. I only have...3 trukks actually assembled? probably 10 counting the unassembled ones.
Oh yes. I have a feeling all my looted Rhinos, Goliath, and kitbashed trukks are all gonna be refurbished as Buggies real soon. Mek shop is gonna be booming.
Vineheart01 wrote: How the individual buggy box will be priced will depend on how they box it. If its seriously "one box, make five different buggies!" then were looking at Firewarrior issues of a box that is virtually TWICE the price of what you get per model just because of the excess sprus.
Course, upside, i have like....7? trukk chassis lying around and since these are so similar in size i could probably kitbash the others using trukk chassis lol...
I see how the tons of extra bits in the Fire Warrior box (and its higher price than most other basic infantry boxes) is a problem for Tau players.
On the other hand, as Ork players those extra bits probably won't go to waste. I'm really hoping that we don't get stuck with boxes with extremely limited options. The new Knights have me a little worried in this regard, but the Hastings rumor was for tons of adaptability and I think some of the new Death Guard units had a decent number of options, right?
"Decent number of options" really depends on the kit. Almost all infantry models are mono-built, most bodies are made up of three parts that don't fit any other ones. You get an additional head or two per body and some weapon options, but usually only one guy can take the heavy/special weapons. In order to get 22 different looking plague marines you need to buy regular box, the ETB marines, the plague brethren, dark imperium and the two solo marine blisters - otherwise you are going to have some duplicates.
Vehicles can swap some weapons, but are mono-built otherwise. The only new kit with some customization options is the blight drone. Well, and Mortarion, he actually has each arm twice, so you can build him with the Scythe in either hand. You could also model him with two pistols if you wanted.
So, in general the Death Guard kits get blown out of the water by the boyz box in terms of options and can in no way compete with kits like nobz, flash gits or the ork planes.
Danny76 wrote: As we all know it’s never about the amount of plastic used unfortunately..
It seems to be kind of based on their power on the table / points value. Characters are really expensive per model in both points and money, elite units fairly expensive for both, etc. Unfortunately it seems that small vehicles like the Taurox and the Goliath don't follow that pattern and orks have the ridiculously overpriced Mek Guns as a precedent.
Characters are expensive as they are plastic and rules means buying more than 1 is not encouraged. The more sprues customer is expected to buy the less they need to charge. Thus unique character will by definition cost most. But that's true whether it's marine chapter master or theoretical grot special charater that costs 30pts. Hardly powerhouse but if ork players can only use 1...say hello to expensive kit!
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aracersss wrote: and so tankbuztaz & commandoz are left in the void for another edition or so
Well seems orks are getting 3 non-speed freak releases so maybe not
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Binabik15 wrote: I hope for a Gangs of Comorrhag (or however the panzies spell it) situation. Not as extreme, but with £80 as the upper limit, not the low end. Bikes *could* be inclided to "boost" the value beyond 60/70/80 by being the discounted item basically, because those sprues must cost them next to nothing. Even less if they disn't use newly coloured sprues done for this. RT is 80 I think, so this is my guess here as well.
Hoping for a decent price on the standalone vehicles, but I have a feeling they'll be pretty expensive - like the Beast of Nurgle was way more than expected. The Boss on trike has to be more than a Trukk.
Sprue colour irrelevant for price most likely. Not likely they have been sitting on tons of excess sprues they would use this(sprues sitting on warehouse costs money) so they will cast new sprues. But moulds presumably same(why recut that costs money with identical result...) so it's just using one coloured plastic over one coloured plastic(grey is coloured as well)
tneva82 wrote: Well seems orks are getting 3 non-speed freak releases so maybe not
Warboss, warboss in mega armour, deffkoptas and special characters would seem more likely to me than new infantry, but really there's no telling with GW.
Maybe Gangs was not the best comparison, Gorechosen is however almost certainly the result of (over)stock clearing. If the bikers were the regular sprues it might have been the same situation - I doubt Orks were still selling as much as they used to after editions of "300 boyz or get stomped". That's what I meant. Clearing stock in a way that makes the box a "killer deal" while basically saving GW money from reduced warehouse stock.
Since they're newly injected ones, though, that isn't the case. I still hope for a not that expensive box.
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: Mortarion and magnus sizes ghaz would be to large imo. He should be about the size of a contemptor dread. Hoping for a dynamic sculpt.
Mortarion himself is not that large of a model. Outside his wings, he has not changed much from his Primarch self. What makes the model appear so huge is the wings, the phosphex bombs and the base. Without wings and base, he'd be about the size of a deff dread.
Billagio wrote: Yeah he probably will be somewhat pricey, im still holding out hope for new foot warboss/ghazzy models
Watch Gazzy be demon prince sized and cost $140.
Yep, my crystal ball confirms this. Orks also need the following in their next codex:
- Grappling klaws for warbosses.
- Trukks with catapult function.
- Scrap littering the battlefield waiting to be utitlized by the greenskins for unit specific buffs.
- Dancing (or possessed ?) ork buildings. If nurgle scum can get gnarlmaw terrain, orks should get also special stuff.
Vineheart01 wrote: How the individual buggy box will be priced will depend on how they box it. If its seriously "one box, make five different buggies!" then were looking at Firewarrior issues of a box that is virtually TWICE the price of what you get per model just because of the excess sprus.
Course, upside, i have like....7? trukk chassis lying around and since these are so similar in size i could probably kitbash the others using trukk chassis lol...
I see how the tons of extra bits in the Fire Warrior box (and its higher price than most other basic infantry boxes) is a problem for Tau players.
On the other hand, as Ork players those extra bits probably won't go to waste. I'm really hoping that we don't get stuck with boxes with extremely limited options. The new Knights have me a little worried in this regard, but the Hastings rumor was for tons of adaptability and I think some of the new Death Guard units had a decent number of options, right?
"Decent number of options" really depends on the kit. Almost all infantry models are mono-built, most bodies are made up of three parts that don't fit any other ones. You get an additional head or two per body and some weapon options, but usually only one guy can take the heavy/special weapons. In order to get 22 different looking plague marines you need to buy regular box, the ETB marines, the plague brethren, dark imperium and the two solo marine blisters - otherwise you are going to have some duplicates.
Vehicles can swap some weapons, but are mono-built otherwise. The only new kit with some customization options is the blight drone. Well, and Mortarion, he actually has each arm twice, so you can build him with the Scythe in either hand. You could also model him with two pistols if you wanted.
So, in general the Death Guard kits get blown out of the water by the boyz box in terms of options and can in no way compete with kits like nobz, flash gits or the ork planes.
Dang, I was hoping there was an exception to GW's recent trend of monobuild models with limited posing and variety. I mean the new stuff looks good, but I like a lot of options and I like how so many ork parts are interchangeable across kits.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: Dang, I was hoping there was an exception to GW's recent trend of monobuild models with limited posing and variety. I mean the new stuff looks good, but I like a lot of options and I like how so many ork parts are interchangeable across kits.
Think you touched WHY GW has went this way...Why encourage people kitbash cheaper alternatives when you can make it hard to get people buy more expensive official kits.
so ive looked really hard at the speed freeks board games video a lot, and ive gotten an idea on how big the new buggies are.
they are not that big. yeah sure by themselves in a reveal video makes them seem realy big (i personally have this problem a lot, its hard to tell how big a model is when its not next to any other models for context).
seeing the new buggies right next to the warbikers makes them seem a lot smaller. buggie is about 2 times the size of a warbiker, and the base its on seems to be the oval 120mm-92mm base (its the same base size that flyer bases are made from).
that is not that big, and the truck hangs over the sides of a 120mm oval base. if you do use a truck for converting the leftover bits from the kit then be prepared to trim off some stuff (maybe remove the whole back end). its only a little bigger then the current models for the wartrack/warbuggy. it just looks way better.
pretty sure Ghaz would just be 9 wounds if he got a huge model, either with some other weird rule to "have more rules" like girlyman has or have more than 9 wounds and just a rule where boyz/nobz still cause the whole "not the closest target" thing. Also, speed isnt a problem for him. As it is he wants to be surrounded by a mass of boyz anyway.
Vineheart01 wrote: pretty sure Ghaz would just be 9 wounds if he got a huge model, either with some other weird rule to "have more rules" like girlyman has or have more than 9 wounds and just a rule where boyz/nobz still cause the whole "not the closest target" thing.
Also, speed isnt a problem for him. As it is he wants to be surrounded by a mass of boyz anyway.
Disagree on the speed bit...
Ghazzy needs a delivery system... otherwise, why bother? Even if he's surrounded by mass of boyz, it'd be unlikely he'd get into combat with something good.
Vineheart01 wrote: pretty sure Ghaz would just be 9 wounds if he got a huge model, either with some other weird rule to "have more rules" like girlyman has or have more than 9 wounds and just a rule where boyz/nobz still cause the whole "not the closest target" thing.
Also, speed isnt a problem for him. As it is he wants to be surrounded by a mass of boyz anyway.
If he\s Guillimann sized he could have 9. If he's bigger than that(like daemon primarch) he will have more. That's how GW does wounds. Thus don't hope daemon primarch sized model if you want to keep him 9 wounds or less.
The new look Warbuggies do seem to have a less ramshackle appearance, more structured. Even the weapons on them, like the guns on the Boomdakka Snazzwagon, seem slicker & polished off for some reason.
This has me thinking about using an Imperial Taurox as a base model for a counts as.
Size wise, if I stuck wheels on a Taurox do you think it would count as a Trukk or a Warbuggy?
I like the look of the Taurox with wheels and the roof open too. Just unsure if it’s long enough to count as an open topped transport Trukk or keep the roof on and call it a Warbuggy.
Tauros and Goliath have a smaller ‘footprint’ than the truck, so logically it would do as a buggy. I believe the problem would be its height. Google ‘ Hazug Files buggy ‘ for a simple truck conversion to buggy.
Moriarty wrote: Tauros and Goliath have a smaller ‘footprint’ than the truck, so logically it would do as a buggy. I believe the problem would be its height. Google ‘ Hazug Files buggy ‘ for a simple truck conversion to buggy.
That's pretty much the mobile gun quad I've always wanted! Slick!
yeah, im not sure about the size of taurox or other models, i dont have them so i cant compare. next time you fight your local imperial players subtly place a 120mm base next to his vehicles, if they ask what your doing then just say your measuring how big the coffin will be.
admittedly there arnt many options, small vehicles are more commonly an ork thing. maybe try being unique with conversions, literally strap 2 bikes side by side (like a side car bike, we will get 6 more bikes out of the boxset). if you are fine converting toys there are great cheap toys always available, just take all those promised extra bits form the new buggies to make them proppah orky (they do add variety to the look of your buggy horde).
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: Dang, I was hoping there was an exception to GW's recent trend of monobuild models with limited posing and variety. I mean the new stuff looks good, but I like a lot of options and I like how so many ork parts are interchangeable across kits.
Think you touched WHY GW has went this way...Why encourage people kitbash cheaper alternatives when you can make it hard to get people buy more expensive official kits.
What it does is encourage people to buy 3rd party stuff for both variety and customization options. When your army looks like the same 5 guys, it starts to get a bit old. Also if every Warboss or Primaris(TM) Space Marine Captain in every army looks the same then it makes your models feel less exciting. More variety in posing and gear means you have more reason to buy multiple of the same kit. If the Tau Fireblade for example was somewhat customizable then I would of bought 3. Instead it's mono pose so I bought 1 and got two different 3rd party models so my Fireblades didn't all have the same face, gear, and all holding that bonding knife in the air for whatever reason.
Vineheart01 wrote: pretty sure Ghaz would just be 9 wounds if he got a huge model, either with some other weird rule to "have more rules" like girlyman has or have more than 9 wounds and just a rule where boyz/nobz still cause the whole "not the closest target" thing.
Also, speed isnt a problem for him. As it is he wants to be surrounded by a mass of boyz anyway.
Disagree on the speed bit...
Ghazzy needs a delivery system... otherwise, why bother? Even if he's surrounded by mass of boyz, it'd be unlikely he'd get into combat with something good.
I say, bring back the old Snikrot rules so Sniky can bring ghaz in on the other side of the table with his ability.
Vineheart01 wrote: pretty sure Ghaz would just be 9 wounds if he got a huge model, either with some other weird rule to "have more rules" like girlyman has or have more than 9 wounds and just a rule where boyz/nobz still cause the whole "not the closest target" thing.
Also, speed isnt a problem for him. As it is he wants to be surrounded by a mass of boyz anyway.
Disagree on the speed bit...
Ghazzy needs a delivery system... otherwise, why bother? Even if he's surrounded by mass of boyz, it'd be unlikely he'd get into combat with something good.
I say, bring back the old Snikrot rules so Sniky can bring ghaz in on the other side of the table with his ability.
What if he instead could deepstrike at 9" and had some sort of Rok strike when he did arrive?
On a side note, on blood of kittens they had an ork compilation a couple days ago. They reposted everything we had already seen except 1 stratagem I noticed seemed to be a little different this time.
Teleport – Lets the Ork player keep 20PL of models off the board, teleport in within 9″ of the enemy on Turn 1.
Not only does it say models whether this is interchangeable with units or just so that it can apply to a big ork mob, idk. But it also says on Turn 1, which technically would violate the Big Faq.
I was thinking about using a looted Land Speeder, but instead of having wheels I was going to put it on a base and have it plowing along the ground nose-first digging a furrow as if the grav field was malfunctioning but the orks didn't particularly care. Now with the new models it seems like that might work pretty well as a Shokkjump Dragsta, but it's hard to tell without rules.
A price of 28 GBP wouldn't be too bad, especially since I would guess that these new buggies will cost significantly more points than the old ones. They would be cheaper than Mek Gunz, but then again Mek Gunz are ridiculously priced for being a relatively small, low-points model.
One funny thing in regards to the new buggies not looking quite as ramshackle is that the old buggy wasn't that ramshackle either.
mhalko1 wrote: Not only does it say models whether this is interchangeable with units or just so that it can apply to a big ork mob, idk. But it also says on Turn 1, which technically would violate the Big Faq.
Don\t get too excited about the T1 thing. Apart from a) wasn't that matched play restriction(thus codex needs to also work for narrative/open) b) it's still BETA rule. Having codex work on BETA rule is bit odd c) codex rules were written before faq was out anyway(lead times).
An Actual Englishman wrote: Yea it says pre-order. Question is - does the £28 include a 10% or 15% discount?
What? It's an ebay scalper parting out Speed Freeks boxes (that they don't even have yet). There's no discount.
Without knowing the price of the buggies you have absolutely no idea if this is true or not. You're simply guessing.
As to Ghaz - if there is a new model he will be one of the last things to be revealed because he's like our primarch.
Well why would ebay seller put discount when they are taking advantage of being only source for individual ones. Maybe they put discount once GW puts out individual box but until then they are going to charge as much as they can as alternative is buy whole speed freek box.
Without knowing the price of the buggies you have absolutely no idea if this is true or not. You're simply guessing.
I'm stating an educated opinion based on 20 years of experience with GW resellers. If you want to equate that with trying to guess a coin flip, that's on you, not on me.
Without knowing the price of the buggies you have absolutely no idea if this is true or not. You're simply guessing.
I'm stating an educated opinion based on 20 years of experience with GW resellers. If you want to equate that with trying to guess a coin flip, that's on you, not on me.
Yep and in my 20 odd years experience with GW resellers they offer a 10-15% discount as standard. Particularly for 'pre-orders'.
tneva82 wrote: Well why would ebay seller put discount when they are taking advantage of being only source for individual ones. Maybe they put discount once GW puts out individual box but until then they are going to charge as much as they can as alternative is buy whole speed freek box.
You know that GW aren't going to put the buggies out separately at the same time as Speed Freeks do you? Or that buggies aren't going to go up for pre-order by themselves when that ebay link says they are? Source?
I read the ebay post as a distributor accidentally putting information on ebay that they shouldn't have, because they know when the buggies are going to be released.
I read the ebay post as a distributor accidentally putting information on ebay that they shouldn't have, because they know when the buggies are going to be released.
Looking at their items for sale, they're clearly someone splitting boxes and selling on component parts.
I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
I read the ebay post as a distributor accidentally putting information on ebay that they shouldn't have, because they know when the buggies are going to be released.
Looking at their items for sale, they're clearly someone splitting boxes and selling on component parts.
I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
An Actual Englishman wrote: You know that GW aren't going to put the buggies out separately at the same time as Speed Freeks do you? Or that buggies aren't going to go up for pre-order by themselves when that ebay link says they are? Source?
I read the ebay post as a distributor accidentally putting information on ebay that they shouldn't have, because they know when the buggies are going to be released.
You know that they are going to diverge from release pattern they have followed for like decade from...how?
'
You are basically making just random wild guesses out of thin air here.
An Actual Englishman wrote: You know that GW aren't going to put the buggies out separately at the same time as Speed Freeks do you? Or that buggies aren't going to go up for pre-order by themselves when that ebay link says they are? Source?
I read the ebay post as a distributor accidentally putting information on ebay that they shouldn't have, because they know when the buggies are going to be released.
You know that they are going to diverge from release pattern they have followed for like decade from...how?
'
You are basically making just random wild guesses out of thin air here.
Vasarto wrote: I say, bring back the old Snikrot rules so Sniky can bring ghaz in on the other side of the table with his ability.
No rule in this edition is going to bring in Ghazghkull closer than 9". Just use the rumored stratagem or Da Jump to put him wherever.
The Snikrot+Thrakka combo was a glitch from a weird FAQ answer GW gave somewhere near the end of 5th. Prior to that FAQ (so almost all of 4th and 5th) it was not possible to infiltrate him.
Herbington wrote: I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
As I understand it, a lot of ebay sellers for that kind of stuff are GW staff taking advantage of their staff discount, so it's possible that whoever it is actually knows a little bit more than us about the price and release schedule.
Herbington wrote: I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
As I understand it, a lot of ebay sellers for that kind of stuff are GW staff taking advantage of their staff discount, so it's possible that whoever it is actually knows a little bit more than us about the price and release schedule.
And that's the kind of thing that can get GW staff terminated.
For almost every hyped item, there are people pre-selling it without them actually knowing the price. Some console games that don't even have a release date yet can be pre-ordered from certain stores for some fantasy prices, and their sellers hope to have guessed high enough to make some money.
They’ve looked at the box, which they know they’ll buy five or so of, though yeah probably £80 let’s say. Get their discount down to £60 when they buy from the right stockist.
Work out a guess at the highest you can sell each item for to surpass that £60 and turn it all into profit.
The first ones to do it guarantee more sales as no one else is competition..
There is no knowing it’s 10% cheaper, as buggies have no release yet.
And even a GW staffer would not know prices for stuff coming later on.
(They won’t get a non Speed Freeks release for I while I wouldn’t think, otherwise it muddys the sales of that box, and it’s too many to do with the Ork book all at once.
It wasn't until... bored lurkers rigged da forum with 2 kilos of fake rumours, just as the loyal ork fan was making his way through posts. BOOM! An exposion happened.
And blood and guts and AP-1 and Sixes was everywhere! And Bubba come crawlin' outa PM, his codex missin`. He is in pain!
He look up at me. He said, "Boss! I can't feel my new rules." I said, "Bubba, they ain't there." And I looked down, and them little bloody nubs was kickin' real fast, like this here. And I said, "Bubba, it's 30 days till the nearest codex. 'Less you can flip upside down and paint 90 boys, you ain't gonna make it."
All of a sudden, tau was all over da place! It was just me and my KMK. And I had no other alternative, but to blast my way out. "WAAAAAGH!! Die, bluberry ! Die ! You'll never take Major Bengork Win-a-lot Painboss alive !"Charge re-roll! Bam! "I saw what you did to my 'naut !" Bam! Bam!
hmm, i dont think they will come out before the whitedwarf, but if speedfreeks does then the oct whitedwarf will most likely cover the other model releases not tied to the box game as well as the codex i would suspect.
i think that would probably be a great issue to pic up due to orctober being hyped up and that would be the best time to have as many ork articles to really boost the hype.
unfortunately i think we will have an codex release near the end of oct (though better late then never).
Herbington wrote: I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
As I understand it, a lot of ebay sellers for that kind of stuff are GW staff taking advantage of their staff discount, so it's possible that whoever it is actually knows a little bit more than us about the price and release schedule.
And that's the kind of thing that can get GW staff terminated.
Herbington wrote: I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
As I understand it, a lot of ebay sellers for that kind of stuff are GW staff taking advantage of their staff discount, so it's possible that whoever it is actually knows a little bit more than us about the price and release schedule.
And that's the kind of thing that can get GW staff terminated.
Only if they get caught.
As much as that would suck, I could see that. After Orks and GSC, it's going to be primarily campaign style releases IMO from then on, so they'll probably revisit Armageddon or Octarius and use that as a way to introduce a "Triumvirate of the WAAAAGH!" with Ghazzy, Orkimedes and maybe a new model for Grotsnik/Old Zogwort/new character.
Herbington wrote: I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
As I understand it, a lot of ebay sellers for that kind of stuff are GW staff taking advantage of their staff discount, so it's possible that whoever it is actually knows a little bit more than us about the price and release schedule.
And that's the kind of thing that can get GW staff terminated.
Only if they get caught.
As much as that would suck, I could see that. After Orks and GSC, it's going to be primarily campaign style releases IMO from then on, so they'll probably revisit Armageddon or Octarius and use that as a way to introduce a "Triumvirate of the WAAAAGH!" with Ghazzy, Orkimedes and maybe a new model for Grotsnik/Old Zogwort/new character.
Herbington wrote: I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
As I understand it, a lot of ebay sellers for that kind of stuff are GW staff taking advantage of their staff discount, so it's possible that whoever it is actually knows a little bit more than us about the price and release schedule.
And that's the kind of thing that can get GW staff terminated.
Only if they get caught.
As much as that would suck, I could see that. After Orks and GSC, it's going to be primarily campaign style releases IMO from then on, so they'll probably revisit Armageddon or Octarius and use that as a way to introduce a "Triumvirate of the WAAAAGH!" with Ghazzy, Orkimedes and maybe a new model for Grotsnik/Old Zogwort/new character.
Nazdreg would be number three there surely?
I'd love for him to be the third one. But given that Ghazzy is already in Mega-Armour I'm not sure they would have that much overlap between the two characters, (though personally I'd be ecstatic if he had rules and a model again) since all the previous triumvirates have had very distinct models from one another.
Herbington wrote: I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
As I understand it, a lot of ebay sellers for that kind of stuff are GW staff taking advantage of their staff discount, so it's possible that whoever it is actually knows a little bit more than us about the price and release schedule.
And that's the kind of thing that can get GW staff terminated.
Only if they get caught.
As much as that would suck, I could see that. After Orks and GSC, it's going to be primarily campaign style releases IMO from then on, so they'll probably revisit Armageddon or Octarius and use that as a way to introduce a "Triumvirate of the WAAAAGH!" with Ghazzy, Orkimedes and maybe a new model for Grotsnik/Old Zogwort/new character.
Nazdreg would be number three there surely?
I'd love for him to be the third one. But given that Ghazzy is already in Mega-Armour I'm not sure they would have that much overlap between the two characters, (though personally I'd be ecstatic if he had rules and a model again) since all the previous triumvirates have had very distinct models from one another.
If only gw would do like karl franz, and make a mega armored warboss kit with the parts to upgrade it into unique characters, like ghaz or nazdredg.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Or my point, again, before y'all drifted off into the world of wishlisting, is that maybe there's simply nothing.
Buggies. A boxed game to sell them. A standard smattering of Codex/cards/dice/hyper-inflated priced collector's edition... and then nothing.
No Ghaz, no plastic Kommandos or Tankbustaz, and many more moons in the wilderness.
Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine? No one expected the buggies until they dropped. There's no point being overly pessimistic. We could have no new models and I'd still be more than satisfied. If we get nothing else we've done better than most for new models.
Grimskul wrote: As much as that would suck, I could see that. After Orks and GSC, it's going to be primarily campaign style releases IMO from then on, so they'll probably revisit Armageddon or Octarius and use that as a way to introduce a "Triumvirate of the WAAAAGH!" with Ghazzy, Orkimedes and maybe a new model for Grotsnik/Old Zogwort/new character.
Certainly those kind of releases will be but expect also round 2 of codexes. Those are "print me money" button and GW has shown ZERO indication they would be dropping like 20 year tradition. If anything AOS has shown the tradition of redoing codexes is fine and dandy.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Have we considered the possibility that these buggies are the only new Ork minis and that there isn't a new Ghaz?
Pretty sure it's been mentioned there's non-speed freak releases. Though not quaranteed new ghaz model. But wasn't mek's workshop style of terrain piece mentioned to be in codex? If yes then that's 100% quaranteed model.q
Pretty sure most people expected the buggies. They were the oldest and worst part of the range and widely predicted to get replaced.
I believe that we will be getting more models, simply because the playtest leaker called out which units got removed for having no models: the warboss, big mek and painboy on bikes. That tells us that everything else which doesn't have a model will get one. At a minimum, that is a mega-armour warboss. Likely to also be a deffkopta (technically available, but obviously problematic), a regular warboss (possibly just Grukk in new packaging or they consider the option of building the one on the trike to be enough), maybe a wartrakk (could see them being thrown in with the megatrack scrapjet or the playtester assumed one of the buggies was actually the wartrakk and they have actually been removed). Possibly even big guns and special characters.
I always thought that plastic kommandos / tankbustas seemed unlikely. In order to really sell, you would want them to be a dual-build kit with another unit. With no new infantry units in the leak, I'd say we aren't getting any new infantry kits except characters.
I think there is also a rumour saying that there will be 'three non-speed-freak releases for orks' although I don't think that is from a reliable source and anyway, it isn't clear if they mean 'three releases that don't have the speed-freak theme' or 'three releases that aren't in the speed-freak game'.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Or my point, again, before y'all drifted off into the world of wishlisting, is that maybe there's simply nothing.
Buggies. A boxed game to sell them. A standard smattering of Codex/cards/dice/hyper-inflated priced collector's edition... and then nothing.
No Ghaz, no plastic Kommandos or Tankbustaz, and many more moons in the wilderness.
But we know by a fact that at least 3 different kind of buggies (How many actual boxes they are and how many multi-kits, we'll see) and a Warboss on Trike are coming. As Englishman said, thats actually pretty good and gives Ork players what has been missing to do a proper Kult of Speed army.
More would be a nice surprise of course.
Jidmah wrote: The rumors clearly stated that there will be three more kits in addition to the buggies.
Can you tell me where those rumours can be found? I've forgotten the exact wording and whether they had provided other information along with the claim to establish their credibility.
Herbington wrote: I think it's someone trying their luck with the pre-order thing.
As I understand it, a lot of ebay sellers for that kind of stuff are GW staff taking advantage of their staff discount, so it's possible that whoever it is actually knows a little bit more than us about the price and release schedule.
GW actively look for that, and re-casters. They have a few people that makes purchases from both in order to check and catch people out. 100%. And it's immediate dismissal.
Jidmah wrote: The rumors clearly stated that there will be three more kits in addition to the buggies.
Can you tell me where those rumours can be found? I've forgotten the exact wording and whether they had provided other information along with the claim to establish their credibility.
Somewhere in this thread for sure, it was the same guy who gave the names of all the buggies which were confirmed by the trike and the blue buggy. The one buggy missing is the squig something model.
As long as it is orks driving and shooting, it will be very close to GorkaMorka in spirit? Probably with game mechanics similar to latest 40k rules and having no campaign component?
I'm not sure I'll be interested if it's just a mini stand-alone game without campaign, but those models would be ultimate in GorkaMorka!
Jidmah wrote: The rumors clearly stated that there will be three more kits in addition to the buggies.
Can you tell me where those rumours can be found? I've forgotten the exact wording and whether they had provided other information along with the claim to establish their credibility.
Somewhere in this thread for sure, it was the same guy who gave the names of all the buggies which were confirmed by the trike and the blue buggy. The one buggy missing is the squig something model.
KiriothTV. He names the four known models (kustom boosta-blasta, shokkjump dragsta, boomdakka snazzwagon and deffkilla wartrike) plus two others (megatrack scrapjet and ruckatruck squig buggy). Those all seem to be vaguely in the vein of 'more buggies', so it's possible based on that rumour that we're getting nothing but buggies (although I think it's likely that we will get characters and deffkoptas too, as I said above).
Grimskul wrote: As much as that would suck, I could see that. After Orks and GSC, it's going to be primarily campaign style releases IMO from then on, so they'll probably revisit Armageddon or Octarius and use that as a way to introduce a "Triumvirate of the WAAAAGH!" with Ghazzy, Orkimedes and maybe a new model for Grotsnik/Old Zogwort/new character.
Certainly those kind of releases will be but expect also round 2 of codexes. Those are "print me money" button and GW has shown ZERO indication they would be dropping like 20 year tradition. If anything AOS has shown the tradition of redoing codexes is fine and dandy.
Incorrect.
We've had two books getting reprints at this juncture:
A) Stormcast Eternals. It's had 3 different iterations now, with the first iteration being set up as the different Chambers having their own books. That was pulled from the concepts and so now we have a gigantic book. Personally, I preferred individual books but I like themes so...
B) Khorne Bloodbound. First version was pretty sparse, focused on just the Bloodbound stuff. Then it got set up the way the following Chaos books would be: Mortal stuff and Daemons all in the same book.
Those are the only books that have been reprinted multiple times.
How friendly of you to prove what i just said. Aos has reprints of battletomes. New versions within years. Gw of old check. Reprints before all have got first also business as usual.
So as i said and you proved gw hasn't shown any indication of going away codex redoes
Was there a rumor that Orks were getting a sort of accessory sprue? Like ammo runts, squigs, cybork parts, etc.. I can't remember if that was an actual rumor or if it was someone wishlisting things.
Andykp wrote: Will one of these other three kits not be the mek terrain we have heard about?
No. Having re-checked the rumour source, the 'three other kits' mean three new units apart from the three which were known about at the time the video was made. One of those (the deffkilla wartrike) has now been revealed. The other two are the rukkatruck squig-buggy and the megatrack scrapjet. The mek shop is almost certainly also going to be a new kit, but it isn't one of the three.
Any talk of 'three new kits' apart from that seems to be a case of wishful thinking, speculation and 'Chinese whispers'. There is no credible information available about the number of new kits coming out (except for the ones GW has shown us, obviously). It could be that the two other units are alternative builds of ones we have already seen. There could be a whole bunch of new kits for existing units.
I'm not really a fan of GW's new names either, but it's not a big deal. It seems like they've been coming up with longer and longer names for things, maybe for IP reasons? This isn't just for the orks, it seems to be going on for all factions.
It's pretty easy to shorten them though. Wartrike, Snazzwagon, Boosta-Blasta and Dragsta are pretty decent names, IMO, and I doubt anyone will throw a fit if we don't say the whole thing.
adamsouza wrote: Ork strategems should be named.
My searchfu is weak at the moment, does the Dakka, Dakka, Dakka rule apply to the dreads and vehicles as well ?
The rule specifically mentions bubble-chukkas so presumably it applies to them, but otherwhise the scope of the rule isn't clear to me either.
My searchfu is weak at the moment, does the Dakka, Dakka, Dakka rule apply to the dreads and vehicles as well ?
It's an army wide rule. It applies to everything, and that was how it was played at Nova. It's great fun. I can see how it might get horrifically annoying if you were re-rolling something and applying dakka dakka dakka. But for the heavy hitting weapons like KMK's, and rokkits, it was pretty fun to play with.
Text from WHC
Previously seen as a Stratagem in Chapter Approved 2017, we’ve added this as a special rule on EVERY Orks unit that works ALL the time. You’ll never, ever hit on worse than a 6 – and you’ll get an extra shooting attack for free when you do so. If you believe in yourself, you can hit anything
I hope that the warboss on trike is not replacing the warboss on bike....the trike is sweet looking but warbosses are capable of driving their own motorcycles....
Geemoney wrote: I hope that the warboss on trike is not replacing the warboss on bike....the trike is sweet looking but warbosses are capable of driving their own motorcycles....
Prepare to be disappointed. According to the one leak we have, there are no biker characters in the codex.
He was attempting a sarcastic response to my answer to a question regarding Dakkadakkadakka. I gave the currently legal version as opposed to the version which will be in the future codex.
Nothing new yet.
Once we know what size base the trike warboss has, I suspect a lot of people will be putting their bike warbosses on a bigger base and calling it good.
Geemoney wrote: I hope that the warboss on trike is not replacing the warboss on bike....the trike is sweet looking but warbosses are capable of driving their own motorcycles....
GW don't make a Warboss on bike mini, so from their perspective there's nothing to replace.
aracersss wrote: isn't it exciting that in less than 5 days, we get ork teaser ^^
Based on what? For all we know orks could be on release for 27.10(still orktober) so would be on preview still weeks ahead.
(incidentally that's the release date I dread. Coincidences with day I'm supposed to have 6k mega battle. Fun trying to drive to town A to pick up codex, drive to town B to play the game and build and learn rules for 6k orks with new rules!)
aracersss wrote: isn't it exciting that in less than 5 days, we get ork teaser ^^
Wait what? Where is this?
This Sunday should be telling us what is due for pre order the following week which "should" be Orks.
[speculation] I think we get Speed Freeks ahead of the codex - at least a week. Up for pre-order on the 29th Sept, then first week of Oct is the run up to the codex preorder, codex out on the 7th.[/speculation]
If the two buggies are released separately as part of the Ork release, needs to be some time between the game release and the individual one.
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if "Orktober" meant releases starting in late September and going through early November. It seems like GW likes to trickle out new model releases, with only one or two new kits coming out a week. If they do that again it seems like it would be hard to fit it all in October. Of course I don't know how many kits are being released and how many of the previewed models are actually part of dual kits. It might all come out the first week of October for all I know.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: I wouldn't be terribly surprised if "Orktober" meant releases starting in late September and going through early November. It seems like GW likes to trickle out new model releases, with only one or two new kits coming out a week. If they do that again it seems like it would be hard to fit it all in October. Of course I don't know how many kits are being released and how many of the previewed models are actually part of dual kits. It might all come out the first week of October for all I know.
we already knows what comes out the rest of the month and its not orks. The pre-orders could ofcourse start in september
aracersss wrote: isn't it exciting that in less than 5 days, we get ork teaser ^^
Wait what? Where is this?
This Sunday should be telling us what is due for pre order the following week which "should" be Orks.
[speculation] I think we get Speed Freeks ahead of the codex - at least a week. Up for pre-order on the 29th Sept, then first week of Oct is the run up to the codex preorder, codex out on the 7th.[/speculation]
If the two buggies are released separately as part of the Ork release, needs to be some time between the game release and the individual one.
We know Speed Freeks is before the Ork release, community said so I think.
I’d say that comes out 6th.
Then probably 13th book with some models, 20th the rest of models. (Could be 20/27th I suppose with a gap between to let people buy a gak ton of Speed Freek boxes.
If that’s the case then I’d say the last week might not even be Orks
Danny76 wrote: Beastmen AoS is one of the weeks, I forget the other thing but I think he’s right..
Beastmen are on pre-orders now so this weekend on sale? (unlikely they are 2 weeks on preorders). Ditto for the new knight. That leaves last week(ie what comes to preorder now) out. Anybody have idea what that has? Don't recall reading anywhere what there is.
Just to be absolutely crystal clear. On the 15th the aos beasts of chaos book and Canis Rex went on pre-order. They will release on September 22nd. On the same day warhammer underworlds: Nightvault will go on pre-order. It will release on September 29th.
Beyond that is uncertain. It is possible that GW will do a second week of underworlds with the next two warbands, but the given the frequency of recent GW releases it is more likely they will share a week with a later wave of Orks.
We will probably see a preview for speed freeks this coming Sunday with preorder on the 29th and a release on October 6th. The codex will probably come the following week, with three weeks of releases, probably alongside more underworlds or specialist games releases.
The Sept WD said 'more titans' in October issue, so it's likely safe to say AT Warhound Titans will land then. Beyond that I don't think there's anything but Orks on the radar for next month.
TheWaspinator wrote: Once we know what size base the trike warboss has, I suspect a lot of people will be putting their bike warbosses on a bigger base and calling it good.
This. Mine looks ridiculous on the small base anyways.
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Ouze wrote: Are there any new pictures between Page 34 and here? I tried reading in good faith but I had to give up after a few pages.
Chikout wrote: Just to be absolutely crystal clear. On the 15th the aos beasts of chaos book and Canis Rex went on pre-order. They will release on September 22nd. On the same day warhammer underworlds: Nightvault will go on pre-order. It will release on September 29th.
Beyond that is uncertain. It is possible that GW will do a second week of underworlds with the next two warbands, but the given the frequency of recent GW releases it is more likely they will share a week with a later wave of Orks.
We will probably see a preview for speed freeks this coming Sunday with preorder on the 29th and a release on October 6th. The codex will probably come the following week, with three weeks of releases, probably alongside more underworlds or specialist games releases.
Greaattt...It will be nice to have the book for the tournament, but getting my first look at it 1 hour before the first game is going to be iffy. Needless to say I won't know my army rules very well...
Chikout wrote: Just to be absolutely crystal clear. On the 15th the aos beasts of chaos book and Canis Rex went on pre-order. They will release on September 22nd. On the same day warhammer underworlds: Nightvault will go on pre-order. It will release on September 29th.
Beyond that is uncertain. It is possible that GW will do a second week of underworlds with the next two warbands, but the given the frequency of recent GW releases it is more likely they will share a week with a later wave of Orks.
We will probably see a preview for speed freeks this coming Sunday with preorder on the 29th and a release on October 6th. The codex will probably come the following week, with three weeks of releases, probably alongside more underworlds or specialist games releases.
Greaattt...It will be nice to have the book for the tournament, but getting my first look at it 1 hour before the first game is going to be iffy. Needless to say I won't know my army rules very well...
Don't even open the book. Just tell your opponents what you believe the rules are and because you believe that's the way it is.
Chikout wrote: Just to be absolutely crystal clear. On the 15th the aos beasts of chaos book and Canis Rex went on pre-order. They will release on September 22nd. On the same day warhammer underworlds: Nightvault will go on pre-order. It will release on September 29th.
Beyond that is uncertain. It is possible that GW will do a second week of underworlds with the next two warbands, but the given the frequency of recent GW releases it is more likely they will share a week with a later wave of Orks.
We will probably see a preview for speed freeks this coming Sunday with preorder on the 29th and a release on October 6th. The codex will probably come the following week, with three weeks of releases, probably alongside more underworlds or specialist games releases.
Greaattt...It will be nice to have the book for the tournament, but getting my first look at it 1 hour before the first game is going to be iffy. Needless to say I won't know my army rules very well...
Don't even open the book. Just tell your opponents what you believe the rules are and because you believe that's the way it is.
I see you met one of my friends when I first started playing 40k with him
Chikout wrote: Just to be absolutely crystal clear. On the 15th the aos beasts of chaos book and Canis Rex went on pre-order. They will release on September 22nd. On the same day warhammer underworlds: Nightvault will go on pre-order. It will release on September 29th.
Beyond that is uncertain. It is possible that GW will do a second week of underworlds with the next two warbands, but the given the frequency of recent GW releases it is more likely they will share a week with a later wave of Orks.
We will probably see a preview for speed freeks this coming Sunday with preorder on the 29th and a release on October 6th. The codex will probably come the following week, with three weeks of releases, probably alongside more underworlds or specialist games releases.
Greaattt...It will be nice to have the book for the tournament, but getting my first look at it 1 hour before the first game is going to be iffy. Needless to say I won't know my army rules very well...
Don't even open the book. Just tell your opponents what you believe the rules are and because you believe that's the way it is.
I see you met one of my friends when I first started playing 40k with him
Chikout wrote: Just to be absolutely crystal clear. On the 15th the aos beasts of chaos book and Canis Rex went on pre-order. They will release on September 22nd. On the same day warhammer underworlds: Nightvault will go on pre-order. It will release on September 29th.
Beyond that is uncertain. It is possible that GW will do a second week of underworlds with the next two warbands, but the given the frequency of recent GW releases it is more likely they will share a week with a later wave of Orks.
We will probably see a preview for speed freeks this coming Sunday with preorder on the 29th and a release on October 6th. The codex will probably come the following week, with three weeks of releases, probably alongside more underworlds or specialist games releases.
Greaattt...It will be nice to have the book for the tournament, but getting my first look at it 1 hour before the first game is going to be iffy. Needless to say I won't know my army rules very well...
Don't even open the book. Just tell your opponents what you believe the rules are and because you believe that's the way it is.
I see you met one of my friends when I first started playing 40k with him
We had leaks from October white dwarf (the Beasts of Chaos stuff) and all that was shown was the beasts stuff. If Orks aren’t in White Dwarf, it means they’ll be out later in the month.
ImAGeek wrote: We had leaks from October white dwarf (the Beasts of Chaos stuff) and all that was shown was the beasts stuff. If Orks aren’t in White Dwarf, it means they’ll be out later in the month.
Depending on the size of the game.
