Tsilber wrote: Oh no jetbike eldar! Have your one armed, walking with a limp, guardsmen walk over and poke em with a pillow in H2H...
So Eldar getting a new codex seems cool. I think I read through the ranting that scatter lasers lost target lot. Did wave serpent shields get nerfed in any way?
Nothing about Serpent Shield as of yet. I think they are deflecting people's attention away from Serpents with the new Scatriders.....
Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters
where are you going to hide 40+ jet bikes.
Do you know whats going to happen if they even get touched by a moderate close combat unit, and they will get charged you cant put 40 bikes in place where they aren't going to get charged their's not enough room on the table.
Currently you can get a war walker with two scatter lasers, fleet and battle focus for 70pts or two sc for 60pts
you can't turbo boost but if you do that you cant fire.
So you paying (3-8) pts more per gun but you get a much more durable unit that is also fearless.
are war walkers currently tearing up the meta?
I'm not denying that their good units but their not going to ruin the tournament scene single single-handedly.
I think you should wait till you have played a few games before you throw your toys out the pram.
I see bike spam as becoming a probelm. It's a good thing the people I play with tend to be the sort of people who play for enjoyment, not people who care about winning and nothing else, even if it means alienating people and making the game enjoyable.
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
This is a fine example of how to not get taken seriously regardless of what else you post (also you're on my ignore list, just letting you know so you don't talk to air and look foolish).
As for the new Eldar. Right now I want to see how much D-Scythe Wraithguard cost. Going from Str 4 to Str D is a huge difference, especially when consider how suicidal assaulting such as squad would be (5D3 Str D hits).
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters
where are you going to hide 40+ jet bikes.
Do you know whats going to happen if they even get touched by a moderate close combat unit, and they will get charged you cant put 40 bikes in place where they aren't going to get charged their's not enough room on the table.
Currently you can get a war walker with two scatter lasers, fleet and battle focus for 70pts or two sc for 60pts
you can't turbo boost but if you do that you cant fire.
So you paying (3-8) pts more per gun but you get a much more durable unit that is also fearless.
are war walkers currently tearing up the meta?
I'm not denying that their good units but their not going to ruin the tournament scene single single-handedly.
I think you should wait till you have played a few games before you throw your toys out the pram.
War walkers are amazing, actually, and it's a testament to how ridiculous the Eldar codex was that there were better options. But consider now, by your own admission, how excellent the 70 point war walker is. The windrider version costs 27 points.
I'm not sure what more I need to say, that's a huge price difference, that's a lot more firepower per point. You'll have trouble even arguing they're more survivable, 1 AV10 2 HP w/ 5+ save vs. nearly 3 T4 w/ 3+ save. The objective secured, 36 inch turboboost is just a bonus.
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
This is a fine example of how to not get taken seriously regardless of what else you post (also you're on my ignore list, just letting you know so you don't talk to air and look foolish).
I took him seriously, because he is right. Especially about warwalkers. For nearly the same price you get an outflanking platform with the same firepower that is quite a bit harder to kill than a guardian jetbike. And it has an invul save.
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
This is a fine example of how to not get taken seriously regardless of what else you post (also you're on my ignore list, just letting you know so you don't talk to air and look foolish).
I took him seriously, because he is right. Especially about warwalkers. For nearly the same price you get an outflanking platform with the same firepower that is quite a bit harder to kill than a guardian jetbike. And it has an invul save.
If you play 1750 or 1850 you have no need to choose. You can easily take both. Throw in D-Cannon weapon batteries and a wraithknight to cover your bases.
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters
This has always been my favorite part of the 40k hobby- watching people personally insult others when they have complaints about the game. I'm not sure what exactly it is about 40k that really brings this behavior out, but it's always so classic.
Only this time the scatter lasers are faster, more maneuverable (the jetbike move is faster than Battle-Focus), and objective secured. Outflank means little when the jetbikes can spend a turn to boost 36" to the other side of the board at a whim.
Don't get me wrong. Warwalkers are amazing, but these new jetbikes would not know what balance was even if it hit them in the face with a flyrant.
Personally I would rather deal with these jetbikes than something that that is going to come in on a side of the board randomly with a similar amount of firepower.
Make them jink and all of the sudden all those shots are quite a bit less intimidating.
So the unit that is probably closest to the 28 pt. scatter laser armed Eldar jetbike is the 22 pt. Necron Tomb Blade upgraded with a particle beamer and shield vane.
They have similar statlines (the tomb blade has better strength, toughness, and leadership, but worse initiative)
The particle beamer is 24" S6 AP- blast vs the scatter laser at 36" S6 AP6 Heavy 4.
The Tomb blade also has reanimation protocols, which is 4+ in a Decurian list.
The Eldar jetbike has the additional Turbo boost range or assault move.
So for 6 more points you gain additional mobility, you have greater range for shooting, you switch out blast for 4 shots (I call it a pass), and you're far less survivable.
I don't play tournaments so I don't know, but has Tomb Blade spam been breaking the tournament scene?
Unix wrote: So the unit that is probably closest to the 28 pt. scatter laser armed Eldar jetbike is the 22 pt. Necron Tomb Blade upgraded with a particle beamer and shield vane.
They have similar statlines (the tomb blade has better strength, toughness, and leadership, but worse initiative)
The particle beamer is 24" S6 AP- blast vs the scatter laser at 36" S6 AP6 Heavy 4.
The Tomb blade also has reanimation protocols, which is 4+ in a Decurian list.
The Eldar jetbike has the additional Turbo boost range or assault move.
So for 6 more points you gain additional mobility, you have greater range for shooting, you switch out blast for 4 shots (I call it a pass), and you're far less survivable.
I don't play tournaments so I don't know, but has Tomb Blade spam been breaking the tournament scene?
I know that people have been trying to get their hands on Tomb Blades but boxes are sold out.
I'd definitely give Eldar the upper hand on weapon statline. Small blast hits 3 models at best (0 models a lot of the time) whereas 4 S6 shots will give you nearly 3 average hits. The other big thing there is the number of hits they can put on vehicles, monstrous creatures or flyers/FMCs. A squad of 10 bikes easily wrecks an AV12 vehicle from the front, while the same number of tomb blades will struggle to kill AV10 from the rear.
The extra range and maneuverability is big because it means that to be in firing range Tomb Blades are within danger range - within rapid fire range or even assault range of fast units. Eldar on the other hand can shoot and then jet away, staying out of harm. It also makes them literally the perfect objective grabbers.
I agree the scatter laser is better, but you're forgetting the one advantage of blast weapons is the built in sniping. Since the blast can be placed on any visible model in the unit and models are removed from under the blast first you can target special/heavy weapons or unit leaders.
You're right, the Eldar jetbike is better, but it also costs 27% more points and I would argue that it's about 27% better. I think the problem isn't that the Eldar jetbike is ridiculously broken, but rather that GW is undervaluing jetbikes as a whole, much like they overvalue multiple wounds.
Unix wrote: I agree the scatter laser is better, but you're forgetting the one advantage of blast weapons is the built in sniping. Since the blast can be placed on any visible model in the unit and models are removed from under the blast first you can target special/heavy weapons or unit leaders.
You're right, the Eldar jetbike is better, but it also costs 27% more points and I would argue that it's about 27% better. I think the problem isn't that the Eldar jetbike is ridiculously broken, but rather that GW is undervaluing jetbikes as a whole, much like they overvalue multiple wounds.
I was actually wondering why people didn't complain this much about Tomb Blades. Now, I'm not defending Eldar, nor do I think the Scatriders will be balanced, but Tomb Blades are almost just as bad. The Particle Beamers are the same statline as a Shurikan Cannon, but in the form of a blast, and with no pseudo rending. (It's AP5, by the way, not AP-). And any model may take one for a measly 2 points each. Plus, with another upgrade, they can be given Ignores Cover.
That being said, the weapon options for the Windriders are still better (3 shots with pseudo rending, or 4 shots with long range), but its still the fact that Tomb Blades are almost just as bad, and are more durable. They didn't get any amount of complaining, at least to this measure.
I know that people have been trying to get their hands on Tomb Blades but boxes are sold out.
I'd definitely give Eldar the upper hand on weapon statline. Small blast hits 3 models at best (0 models a lot of the time) whereas 4 S6 shots will give you nearly 3 average hits. The other big thing there is the number of hits they can put on vehicles, monstrous creatures or flyers/FMCs. A squad of 10 bikes easily wrecks an AV12 vehicle from the front, while the same number of tomb blades will struggle to kill AV10 from the rear.
The extra range and maneuverability is big because it means that to be in firing range Tomb Blades are within danger range - within rapid fire range or even assault range of fast units. Eldar on the other hand can shoot and then jet away, staying out of harm. It also makes them literally the perfect objective grabbers.
They came back in (the stores, at least). At my store, someone came in and picked up a whole bunch, and I grabbed 2 off the shelf. Impulse buy, lol.
That being said, the weapon options for the Windriders are still better (3 shots with pseudo rending, or 4 shots with long range), but its still the fact that Tomb Blades are almost just as bad, and are more durable. They didn't get any amount of complaining, at least to this measure.
Tomb blades are awesome! They even have nice models.
My biggest grump with the whole idea of windrider spam is that they are so NOT durable, and it all just sounds like a quick way for a couple of drop pods to come in and take out three times their points in units. And/or leave the survivors in jink. U
And venoms are comparatively slow, cant be taken in as large numbers, and are at greater risk of dying from most weapons. And they're considered one the best Dark Eldar units.
Re tomb blades - people still think they're great, but IMO they don't play in to the style of the Necron list as much: people are focussed on Wraith Spam, Scarab farms or unkillable warrior blobs instead.
I'm not going to claim the sky is falling just yet... but these bikes seem pretty awesome, especially when you start combining them with the psychic buffs that Eldar have easy access to.
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters
This has always been my favorite part of the 40k hobby- watching people personally insult others when they have complaints about the game. I'm not sure what exactly it is about 40k that really brings this behavior out, but it's always so classic.
I know. I really don't get why genuine complaints are just dismissed in this game.
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters
This has always been my favorite part of the 40k hobby- watching people personally insult others when they have complaints about the game. I'm not sure what exactly it is about 40k that really brings this behavior out, but it's always so classic.
I know. I really don't get why genuine complaints are just dismissed in this game.
In their "defense", it's limited at all to 40k and its fandom as the same thing happens with all games and just gets worse when things are in a downward spiral. I've seen the same thing in Palladium games and Heavy Gear to name just two recent examples.
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters
where are you going to hide 40+ jet bikes.
Do you know whats going to happen if they even get touched by a moderate close combat unit, and they will get charged you cant put 40 bikes in place where they aren't going to get charged their's not enough room on the table.
Currently you can get a war walker with two scatter lasers, fleet and battle focus for 70pts or two sc for 60pts
you can't turbo boost but if you do that you cant fire.
So you paying (3-8) pts more per gun but you get a much more durable unit that is also fearless.
are war walkers currently tearing up the meta?
I'm not denying that their good units but their not going to ruin the tournament scene single single-handedly.
I think you should wait till you have played a few games before you throw your toys out the pram.
LOL lovely attitude. Scatriders are infinitely better than Warwalkers. And you can't run units of 40. It will be quite easy to hide units of 5-8. And what about Farseer jetbike antics. Guide, Doom, Presience. All very powerful. Plus, as was pointed out: Objective Secured. I think you fail to grasp all that is Scatriders.
I'm sorry, I must interject here by saying I think it's hilarious people are calling them "scatriders" if one understands what the word "scat" means irl. lol.
Sorry for a bit of adult humor, but why couldn't we call them las-riders? I think it gets the point across?
Either way, I might pick up a few kits and the codex to make a new army.
PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote: I'm sorry, I must interject here by saying I think it's hilarious people are calling them "scatriders" if one understands what the word "scat" means irl. lol.
Sorry for a bit of adult humor, but why couldn't we call them las-riders? I think it gets the point across?
Either way, I might pick up a few kits and the codex to make a new army.
Personally, that's why I keep calling that "Scatriders"...
pretre wrote: I would argue they are a lot more than 27% more effective. Jsj, obsec, rate of fire, save, firing after jink, etc.
T5, Ld 10, and Reanimation Protocols count for something.
Firing after Jink? Are you going to be one of those people that claim something like Wave Serpents can't take penetrating hits, always fire their shield, always hit at full BS, and always Jink?
Objective Secured will only come up in Combined Arms Detachments, which, if any of the other detachments made are any judge, will be one of the worst ways to run the army.
PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote: I'm sorry, I must interject here by saying I think it's hilarious people are calling them "scatriders" if one understands what the word "scat" means irl. lol.
Sorry for a bit of adult humor, but why couldn't we call them las-riders? I think it gets the point across?
Either way, I might pick up a few kits and the codex to make a new army.
Oh I thought people were calling them scat riders because it works in both ways. It is so appropriate.
The only thing annoying about scatbikes is that they can claim objectives halfway across the board and are obsec on top.
But if you just look at attack/defense, a warwalker is better than 2 scatbikes (and warwalkers have been around for a long time now) even if it costs a little more...2HP = 2 wounds, AV10 > T4, 5++ = 3+ in today's meta. And if the bikes jink they cant hurt gak in the next turn anyways.
You realise for that to be true, that means that bikes would need to get MORE, BETTER rules in the special detachment?
A lot of other armies don't get a lot from Objective Secured. Obsec on slow troops units or ranged combat units doesn't really get you anything - if the enemy is contesting the objective your troops are on, they can probably kill you anyway.
Eldar on the other hand, especially jetbikes, are ridiculously mobile and can reach essentially anywhere on the table. Being able to reach out from 48" away to grab any objective with Obsec units on the bottom of the last turn means that Eldar with Obsec can dominate any objective based mission so long as they have 2 bikes left alive. Obsec is obscenely powerful on Eldar Jetbikes.
EDIT: Warwalkers are already fantastic. Its just that waveserpents (currently) do their job better. When you consider that 'only annoying thing' instead as 'a game-winning ability regardless of how much damage you do to them or they do to you'...
pretre wrote: I would argue they are a lot more than 27% more effective. Jsj, obsec, rate of fire, save, firing after jink, etc.
T5, Ld 10, and Reanimation Protocols count for something.
Firing after Jink? Are you going to be one of those people that claim something like Wave Serpents can't take penetrating hits, always fire their shield, always hit at full BS, and always Jink?
Objective Secured will only come up in Combined Arms Detachments, which, if any of the other detachments made are any judge, will be one of the worst ways to run the army.
You don't need to jink if you jsj out of Los or range. And I think obsec will be a strong contender. If the formation/detachments are better, that's even better for the bikes. I'll cede you t5, RP and l10 though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Firig after jink isn't effective but they still can, unlike units with blasts.
Contesting doesn't win games, holding does. If obsec was going to be the name of the game for eldar, the bikes would already be dominating the meta because their ability to do what you say hasn't changed.
The only buff they got was the ability to take a special weapon on every bike. Nobody complained about their killing potential before, and most tourney lists utilizing them didn't upgrade the gun because they were throwing them away to claim maelstrom objectives. If you are rushing forward to claim objectives every turn with your obsec bikes, your 36" range means jack because the only way that bonus would matter would be if I was on the objective you're trying to take. If you and I are both within. 3" of an objective at the end of your turn, you can say good bye to those bikes.
Also, don't forget that only the models that can see can overwatch. Charge a couple bikes that are sticking out around a corner and you REALLY limit their firepower on overwatch.
I've had problems with Eldar Windriders for a while now, with their free 3+ save. Especially when once Marines get redone, they will likely be the only troop bike unit in the game. But before, the Wave Serpent was more broken, occupyin the majority of attention. Now, with the ability to put heavy weapons on as many cheap eldar jetbikes as you please, they have gotten even more undercosted for their value, making a joke of other races troops and bike units (especially Dark Eldar. Why can't they get a heavy gun on every Reaver Jetbike if they pay the points? Why are Craftworld Eldar bikes so special?)
Craftworld Eldar are no more advanced than the Dark Eldar. They're the same race with access to the same technology. Both based on ancient Eldar technology during their reign.
Bojazz wrote: Craftworld Eldar are no more advanced than the Dark Eldar. They're the same race with access to the same technology. Both based on ancient Eldar technology during their reign.
Not quite. Dark Eldar don't have (or use) wraith technology, which was developed after the Fall. Hence no eyeless models, or half-spirit-half-living titans. Also, regular Eldar don't get all the good recreational drugs, so none of those buffs there. And they aren't into S&M, so no FNP after the first turn (or the other cool buffs).
Swabby wrote: They are the most advanced technologically speaking in the galaxy?
No, Necrons are. Yet they aren't even toting around srength D.
Don't worry. Next Christmas there will be a strength D giant sphinx that wakes up from a planet somewhere that is a $150 model. With 36" Ranged D. That gets better buffs if you play them in a super formation of 3. And a weapon that you can only get as a forgeworld bit. RAWR!
PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote: I'm sorry, I must interject here by saying I think it's hilarious people are calling them "scatriders" if one understands what the word "scat" means irl. lol.
Sorry for a bit of adult humor, but why couldn't we call them las-riders? I think it gets the point across?
Either way, I might pick up a few kits and the codex to make a new army.
Actually, with my encyclopedic knowledge of forgotten musical acts from the 90's, this was my first thought.
pretre wrote: I would argue they are a lot more than 27% more effective. Jsj, obsec, rate of fire, save, firing after jink, etc.
T5, Ld 10, and Reanimation Protocols count for something.
Firing after Jink? Are you going to be one of those people that claim something like Wave Serpents can't take penetrating hits, always fire their shield, always hit at full BS, and always Jink?
Objective Secured will only come up in Combined Arms Detachments, which, if any of the other detachments made are any judge, will be one of the worst ways to run the army.
I believe you will mostly see CAD eldar in tournaments. Tournament missions are heavily based on objectives now. A lot of them have gone to maelstrom style missions. 36" + 2D6 move with obsec is really good. Without obsec, you better hope you can shoot them off that objective. Also, you don't pay a vyper tax, you don't need a spiritseer, wraith lord and 2 extra units of wraithguard you don't want just to bring 1 unit of wraithguard you do want, etc. Unless the formation bonus is even more OP than necrons, I doubt it will see much play on top tables.
Trasvi wrote: .....Eldar on the other hand, especially jetbikes, are ridiculously mobile and can reach essentially anywhere on the table. Being able to reach out from 48" away.....
We heard it here first. Scatriders are the best at reach-arounds.
Wow, what a drama. And seriously, no one (or maybe I missed it in the waves of tears) is interested in the Jetbikes as an upgrade option for Warlocks and Farseers? This is where the balance breaks because you can easily negate your inherent weakness(es) of your psykers with a Jetbike which gives you so much usefulness, so much toughness added (not only the one stat in the line!)...don't know why nobody is talking about it. See the Eldar lists from the last years - Farseer on foot, without planning to deploy in a Serpent? Nope! Why? Because 15 points-Jetbike is way too cheap for a HQ-model and therefore an auto-include. This bugs me actually even more than the Windrider's buff and I do play Eldar. That being said, if the Jetbike was like 30 points for the Seer, maybe 20 or 25 for the Warlock, you'd at least double check if you can afford this sum and if you really need the bike. Given that quick jetbikes need to be followed somehow by your Farseer if you want to buff them properly (LoS, some short-ranged blessings, short-ranged maledictions on enemy units like Misfortune...), GW should have vastly increased the costs for the Farseer's and a bit for Warlock's jetbikes.
"we don't have enough info yet.............." - apart from the stats and unit composition - what more is needed?
Same thing was said about Cheese Serpents in the last Codex came out - good job it got fixed quickly - oh wait...........it didn't
GW don't care enough to fix issues like this in FAQs or anything. If these units are broken as hell - which they appear to be - nothing will happen except:
A few people will say its fair and balanced whilst fielding the most cheese they can and decrying anyone who questions it as "crying" and say LTP whilst bigging up their "skill" at choosing the most broken units.
Most people will find it extremely distasteful on both sides, play less or with more specific rules / formal or informal army restrictions.
Some people will just plain give up on the game.
Why are Craftworld Eldar bikes so special
Good question - and why exactly do they get a +2 bonus to armour saves - the 3+ armour save should be for the Aspect warrior version?
Well, but we know what it is for the Warlocks - just like it has been the last editions. Would be a very big surprise or rather a precedence in Eldar-view if GW does adjust the jetbike-price only for several units after the cost was all the same.
Has anything been mentioned in this trainwreck of a thread about what has happened to Shining Spears? It's pretty odd that they're not a dual-kit with Windriders, but they are still listed in the WD formations.
PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote: I'm sorry, I must interject here by saying I think it's hilarious people are calling them "scatriders" if one understands what the word "scat" means irl. lol.
Sorry for a bit of adult humor, but why couldn't we call them las-riders? I think it gets the point across?
Either way, I might pick up a few kits and the codex to make a new army.
I coined it first and was fully aware of the meaning behind the term scat Which was why I thought it was so apropos.
However after completing my Ice bucket challenge and listening to some of the points I can see how while it would be difficult for the eldar to maintain that level of fire power. If they are jinking they cant shoot. Otherwise they die like marines, and as we know, marines die quick. With good terrain(even having JSJ) and it is going to be hard to get LOS with that many bike models as well as hide that many bike models.
I think that I will have to wait and see on the D weapons but I think as long as the wave serpent gets shut down, even with the D-weapons I will have to see what happens as well as how the points pan out.
The bikes (and eldar as a whole) cant do EVERYTHING at once. They cant keep OS and take a bunch of wraithknights, they cant have a jink save AND have overwhelming firepower. So on and so forth.
I am still skeptical, but I can see it having so many holes(and I have already found some hard counters) that I doubt it will dominate the tournament scene. Wave serpents made it so unskilled players could do okay, but would fall apart when their counter showed up, I think bikes will be the same considering the amount of terrain I see now-a-days.
Also one of my friends told me to quit being a little bitch and start thinking about how to solve the problem instead of bitching about the problem.
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters
This has always been my favorite part of the 40k hobby- watching people personally insult others when they have complaints about the game. I'm not sure what exactly it is about 40k that really brings this behavior out, but it's always so classic.
It's not just 40K, it's just about EVERY online forum, gaming-related or not.
Leth wrote: I was initiallly in the OMG world is ending camp, and I am still skeptical.
However after completing my Ice bucket challenge and listening to some of the points I can see how while it would be difficult its fire power will drop off very drastically. If they are jinking they cant shoot. Otherwise they die like marines, and as we know, marines die quick. JSJ with good terrain and it is going to be hard to get LOS with that many bike models as well as hide that many bike models.
I think that I will have to wait and see on the D weapons but I think as long as the wave serpent gets shut down, even with the D-weapons I will have to see what happens as well as how the points pan out.
The bikes (and eldar as a whole) cant do EVERYTHING at once. They cant keep OS and take a bunch of wraithknights, they cant have a jink save AND have overwhelming firepower. So on and so forth.
I am still skeptical, but I can see it having so many holes(and I have already found some hard counters) that I doubt it will dominate the tournament scene. Wave serpents made it so unskilled playsers could do okay, but would fall apart when their counter showed up, I think bikes will be the same considering the amount of terrain I see now-a-days
Leth wrote: I was initiallly in the OMG world is ending camp, and I am still skeptical.
However after completing my Ice bucket challenge and listening to some of the points I can see how while it would be difficult its fire power will drop off very drastically. If they are jinking they cant shoot. Otherwise they die like marines, and as we know, marines die quick. JSJ with good terrain and it is going to be hard to get LOS with that many bike models as well as hide that many bike models.
I think that I will have to wait and see on the D weapons but I think as long as the wave serpent gets shut down, even with the D-weapons I will have to see what happens as well as how the points pan out.
The bikes (and eldar as a whole) cant do EVERYTHING at once. They cant keep OS and take a bunch of wraithknights, they cant have a jink save AND have overwhelming firepower. So on and so forth.
I am still skeptical, but I can see it having so many holes(and I have already found some hard counters) that I doubt it will dominate the tournament scene. Wave serpents made it so unskilled playsers could do okay, but would fall apart when their counter showed up, I think bikes will be the same considering the amount of terrain I see now-a-days
Hear, hear!
Inportant to note that Scatter lasers are range 36 so they dont need to move around too much. You could make a mobile gun line and hop from ruin to ruin so no need to jink.
Inportant to note that Scatter lasers are range 36 so they dont need to move around too much. You could make a mobile gun line and hop from ruin to ruin so no need to jink.
If they want to crash into ruins, let them.
It doesn't take many casualties for Eldar to utilize their less than awesome Leadership.
Leth wrote: I was initiallly in the OMG world is ending camp.
However after completing my Ice bucket challenge and listening to some of the points I can see how while it would be difficult for the eldar to maintain that level of fire power. If they are jinking they cant shoot. Otherwise they die like marines, and as we know, marines die quick. With good terrain(even having JSJ) and it is going to be hard to get LOS with that many bike models as well as hide that many bike models.
I think that I will have to wait and see on the D weapons but I think as long as the wave serpent gets shut down, even with the D-weapons I will have to see what happens as well as how the points pan out.
The bikes (and eldar as a whole) cant do EVERYTHING at once. They cant keep OS and take a bunch of wraithknights, they cant have a jink save AND have overwhelming firepower. So on and so forth.
I am still skeptical, but I can see it having so many holes(and I have already found some hard counters) that I doubt it will dominate the tournament scene. Wave serpents made it so unskilled players could do okay, but would fall apart when their counter showed up, I think bikes will be the same considering the amount of terrain I see now-a-days.
Also one of my friends told me to quit being a little bitch and start thinking about how to solve the problem instead of bitching about the problem.
Sure. You're wrong, but sure.
Marines suck because they are slow and are limited to S4 weaponry with peak effectiveness at 12".
Eldar Jetbikes can be 48" from a target, engage at full strength and then be, on average, 43" away from said target. And if you have limited fire that can shoot effectively at 43" away at also Ap3... Then likely you're firing something with limited power. Cool, you killed a few. I won't jink as the remaining dudes still can shoot out another unit next turn.
I appreciate the last comment. It's being totally not Scrub. However, this is an instance of you'll need something that can be high volume, accurate, low AP, plentiful and both able to soak S6 and SD shots. Good luck.
And you can be the hero if you list said hard counters. Because 100+ S6 shot is about half of the Eldar army. The rest will still be nut kicking hard.
Leth wrote: I was initiallly in the OMG world is ending camp, and I am still skeptical.
However after completing my Ice bucket challenge and listening to some of the points I can see how while it would be difficult its fire power will drop off very drastically. If they are jinking they cant shoot. Otherwise they die like marines, and as we know, marines die quick. JSJ with good terrain and it is going to be hard to get LOS with that many bike models as well as hide that many bike models.
I think that I will have to wait and see on the D weapons but I think as long as the wave serpent gets shut down, even with the D-weapons I will have to see what happens as well as how the points pan out.
The bikes (and eldar as a whole) cant do EVERYTHING at once. They cant keep OS and take a bunch of wraithknights, they cant have a jink save AND have overwhelming firepower. So on and so forth.
I am still skeptical, but I can see it having so many holes(and I have already found some hard counters) that I doubt it will dominate the tournament scene. Wave serpents made it so unskilled playsers could do okay, but would fall apart when their counter showed up, I think bikes will be the same considering the amount of terrain I see now-a-days
Hear, hear!
Inportant to note that Scatter lasers are range 36 so they dont need to move around too much. You could make a mobile gun line and hop from ruin to ruin so no need to jink.
Right, but the thing is that if they can always take advantage of the range then you dont have enough LOS blocking. There should not be any place in a deployment zone where you should be able to see all of your opponents deployment zone if that makes sense.
I like how the counter argument is jinking... no one seems to remember that eldar are the best psykers in the game and there are powers that can give these guys +1 armor saves or even..... wait for it.... invisibility!
If that was a little to hard to get has anyone here heard of shadowseers... they kind of have the best primaris power in the game. 2d6x2 range for anyone trying to shoot them. So if you run static gunline eldar you can go without being shot for a few turns.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I've had problems with Eldar Windriders for a while now, with their free 3+ save. Especially when once Marines get redone, they will likely be the only troop bike unit in the game. But before, the Wave Serpent was more broken, occupyin the majority of attention. Now, with the ability to put heavy weapons on as many cheap eldar jetbikes as you please, they have gotten even more undercosted for their value, making a joke of other races troops and bike units (especially Dark Eldar. Why can't they get a heavy gun on every Reaver Jetbike if they pay the points? Why are Craftworld Eldar bikes so special?)
Has it been confirmed that Windriders are in fact Troops in the new codex? Seeing as DE reaver jetbikes are FA, maybe they moved the Windriders there as well. The new detachment doesn't likely have ObjectSec, so its largely irrelevent where the unit actually lands in the FOC.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I've had problems with Eldar Windriders for a while now, with their free 3+ save. Especially when once Marines get redone, they will likely be the only troop bike unit in the game. But before, the Wave Serpent was more broken, occupyin the majority of attention. Now, with the ability to put heavy weapons on as many cheap eldar jetbikes as you please, they have gotten even more undercosted for their value, making a joke of other races troops and bike units (especially Dark Eldar. Why can't they get a heavy gun on every Reaver Jetbike if they pay the points? Why are Craftworld Eldar bikes so special?)
Has it been confirmed that Windriders are in fact Troops in the new codex? Seeing as DE reaver jetbikes are FA, maybe they moved the Windriders there as well. The new detachment doesn't likely have ObjectSec, so its largely irrelevent where the unit actually lands in the FOC.
Except you can always run a CAD instead of the detachments. At least that is how the necron book is worded.
Sunhero wrote: Its been two days and you scrubs are still wetting your selves over the jet bikes.
people have given plenty reasonable counters
This has always been my favorite part of the 40k hobby- watching people personally insult others when they have complaints about the game. I'm not sure what exactly it is about 40k that really brings this behavior out, but it's always so classic.
It's not just 40K, it's just about EVERY online forum, gaming-related or not.
Agreed, and also bolded online forum. In person I've had nothing but great interactions with 40K, though with the anonymity of the internet people tend to act so harsh. Then again, I'm an avid DotA and LoL player, so Dakka feels like a serene oasis at times to me...
MajorWesJanson wrote: I've had problems with Eldar Windriders for a while now, with their free 3+ save. Especially when once Marines get redone, they will likely be the only troop bike unit in the game. But before, the Wave Serpent was more broken, occupyin the majority of attention. Now, with the ability to put heavy weapons on as many cheap eldar jetbikes as you please, they have gotten even more undercosted for their value, making a joke of other races troops and bike units (especially Dark Eldar. Why can't they get a heavy gun on every Reaver Jetbike if they pay the points? Why are Craftworld Eldar bikes so special?)
Has it been confirmed that Windriders are in fact Troops in the new codex? Seeing as DE reaver jetbikes are FA, maybe they moved the Windriders there as well. The new detachment doesn't likely have ObjectSec, so its largely irrelevent where the unit actually lands in the FOC.
Except you can always run a CAD instead of the detachments. At least that is how the necron book is worded.
While true, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that shows windriders as being Troops (granted, I easily could have overlooked a screenshot somewhere). The only screenshots I've seen are the options and costs. My point was that just because there is a Guardian host that is all windriders doesn't equal them being Troops, because the formation doesn't care what slot the unit fills because OS is likely not a perk for that formation and detachment (and everything is scoring now).
Well we have seen that warlocks have lost telepathy, so its seems like only farseers might be able to roll that. We also have no idea on what the new psychic powers will be, once again that is not something we can bank on at this point in time.
Leth wrote: I was initiallly in the OMG world is ending camp.
However after completing my Ice bucket challenge and listening to some of the points I can see how while it would be difficult for the eldar to maintain that level of fire power. If they are jinking they cant shoot. Otherwise they die like marines, and as we know, marines die quick. With good terrain(even having JSJ) and it is going to be hard to get LOS with that many bike models as well as hide that many bike models.
I think that I will have to wait and see on the D weapons but I think as long as the wave serpent gets shut down, even with the D-weapons I will have to see what happens as well as how the points pan out.
The bikes (and eldar as a whole) cant do EVERYTHING at once. They cant keep OS and take a bunch of wraithknights, they cant have a jink save AND have overwhelming firepower. So on and so forth.
I am still skeptical, but I can see it having so many holes(and I have already found some hard counters) that I doubt it will dominate the tournament scene. Wave serpents made it so unskilled players could do okay, but would fall apart when their counter showed up, I think bikes will be the same considering the amount of terrain I see now-a-days.
Also one of my friends told me to quit being a little bitch and start thinking about how to solve the problem instead of bitching about the problem.
Sure. You're wrong, but sure.
Marines suck because they are slow and are limited to S4 weaponry with peak effectiveness at 12".
Eldar Jetbikes can be 48" from a target, engage at full strength and then be, on average, 43" away from said target. And if you have limited fire that can shoot effectively at 43" away at also Ap3... Then likely you're firing something with limited power. Cool, you killed a few. I won't jink as the remaining dudes still can shoot out another unit next turn.
I appreciate the last comment. It's being totally not Scrub. However, this is an instance of you'll need something that can be high volume, accurate, low AP, plentiful and both able to soak S6 and SD shots. Good luck.
And you can be the hero if you list said hard counters. Because 100+ S6 shot is about half of the Eldar army. The rest will still be nut kicking hard.
He is wrong and you are right... because!?
First of all, marines do not suck. They are the standard for what is a solid unit/set of stats. Marines are also not limited to S4 weaponry as you can give them all sort of special weapons depending on the squad chosen and Drop Pods tend to get Marines into that 12" peak effectiveness you speak of.
On the other hand, the comparison of Windriders to Marines in terms of survivability is appropriate because both have T4 and a 3+ save and experience tells us that T4/3+ saves will only go so far in terms of surviving incoming fire. Therefore, with sufficient firepower, Windriders can be subdued in much the same way Marines can.
Second of all, while Windriders have an effective range of 48" and can be on average 43" away, there is a lot of shooting that can still reach out and hurt Jetbikes. A lot of weapons are either 24-36" on platforms that can move up to 12" thereby matching the Windrider threat range or are 48"+ and usually have a lower AP value.
Indeed, Tau Riptides, Broadsides and units with a buffmander should do sufficient damage to Jetbikes to make sure they die in droves. Seriously, Tau shooting from a well built army can devastate an equal points in bikes. Necrons have a good amount of resilience and can force the Eldar into some difficult positions with what mobility/options Necrons have, Eldar even have good options against Jetbikes and so forth... Flyrants will still be a problem for Jetbikes as well and the list goes on.
Really, anyone can go "but 100 S6 shots!!!" and that is only math-hammer talking. The reality of a 40k game are not some numbers crunched in a vacuum. Player skill, army composition, who goes first, mission objectives and terrain are all factors that make simply saying "but infinity+1 S6 shots=unbeatable!" rather silly.
Seriously, once people start playing with and against the new Eldar, I am sure that things will calm down. I even suspect that the D weapon thing isn't going to be that big of a deal because unlike the Lynx and so forth (which has Eldar Holo-fields and can be placed on a Skyshield), the Wraith units are relatively easy to kill with conventional weaponry and so they may destroy something but then get destroyed in return whereas the real problem D units were things that could cover multiple units and potentially erase them while being REALLY hard to destroy themselves.
Leth wrote: Well we have seen that warlocks have lost telepathy, so its seems like only farseers might be able to roll that. We also have no idea on what the new psychic powers will be, once again that is not something we can bank on at this point in time.
Then bank on shadowseers at least joining squads to keep them from being shot.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I've had problems with Eldar Windriders for a while now, with their free 3+ save. Especially when once Marines get redone, they will likely be the only troop bike unit in the game. But before, the Wave Serpent was more broken, occupyin the majority of attention. Now, with the ability to put heavy weapons on as many cheap eldar jetbikes as you please, they have gotten even more undercosted for their value, making a joke of other races troops and bike units (especially Dark Eldar. Why can't they get a heavy gun on every Reaver Jetbike if they pay the points? Why are Craftworld Eldar bikes so special?)
Has it been confirmed that Windriders are in fact Troops in the new codex? Seeing as DE reaver jetbikes are FA, maybe they moved the Windriders there as well. The new detachment doesn't likely have ObjectSec, so its largely irrelevent where the unit actually lands in the FOC.
Except you can always run a CAD instead of the detachments. At least that is how the necron book is worded.
While true, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that shows windriders as being Troops (granted, I easily could have overlooked a screenshot somewhere). The only screenshots I've seen are the options and costs. My point was that just because there is a Guardian host that is all windriders doesn't equal them being Troops, because the formation doesn't care what slot the unit fills because OS is likely not a perk for that formation and detachment (and everything is scoring now).
MajorWesJanson wrote: I've had problems with Eldar Windriders for a while now, with their free 3+ save. Especially when once Marines get redone, they will likely be the only troop bike unit in the game. But before, the Wave Serpent was more broken, occupyin the majority of attention. Now, with the ability to put heavy weapons on as many cheap eldar jetbikes as you please, they have gotten even more undercosted for their value, making a joke of other races troops and bike units (especially Dark Eldar. Why can't they get a heavy gun on every Reaver Jetbike if they pay the points? Why are Craftworld Eldar bikes so special?)
Has it been confirmed that Windriders are in fact Troops in the new codex? Seeing as DE reaver jetbikes are FA, maybe they moved the Windriders there as well. The new detachment doesn't likely have ObjectSec, so its largely irrelevent where the unit actually lands in the FOC.
Except you can always run a CAD instead of the detachments. At least that is how the necron book is worded.
While true, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that shows windriders as being Troops (granted, I easily could have overlooked a screenshot somewhere). The only screenshots I've seen are the options and costs. My point was that just because there is a Guardian host that is all windriders doesn't equal them being Troops, because the formation doesn't care what slot the unit fills because OS is likely not a perk for that formation and detachment (and everything is scoring now).
Looks like the troops symbol to me.
Yep, sure is. That's one I hadn't seen yet....welp, let me join the rest in saying Windriders are broke as $%#@ then
Leth wrote: Well we have seen that warlocks have lost telepathy, so its seems like only farseers might be able to roll that. We also have no idea on what the new psychic powers will be, once again that is not something we can bank on at this point in time.
Warlocks never could take telepathy. Only Runes of Battle (and Daemonology when that came out).
Heads up, warseer poster is claiming to have the codex and is dropping info
So far:
Would love to know if the farseer powes have changed. Death Mission I'm looking at you...
Yes they have:
Primaris: Guide (no changes)
1: Executioner: Focussed witch fire. 24". Target receives 3 hits, always wounds on 2+. If target diez, another model receives 2 hits. If target dies another gone receives 1 hit.
2: Fatality: You re-roll to wound or to penetrate when firing at target unit. 24"
3: Will of Asuryan: 12" bubble of Fear and Adamantium will
4: Fortune: As always
5: Mind fight: Mainly the same.
6: Ancestral Storm: Warp charges 3 (5" blast), Warp charge 4 (Apoc blast), 24", Haywire, wounds 2+
All Distortion weapons are Strenght D. All of them. But the scythes apply a -1 when rolling on the D table, and the strenght is considered to be 4 when calculating the instant death.
Banshees add +3" when running or assaulting. They igoner the I penalti when assualting through cover.
There are no "chapter tactics".
Wraithknight is LoW (295 points), Jump gargantuan creature
Wraithguard/blades are not tropos anymore if taking a Spiritseer (Only Elites)
Crimson hunter basically the same, but 140 points only.
Sword + Shield: Free (Sword is Strenght D)
Solar cannon + Shield: Free
And the Wraith Cannons?
Is the equipment by default.
Roughly 40 obsec bikes, 2 divination jetseers hoping for misfortune, but ok with Primaris, and a firebase support cadre with spammed EWO, all in a void shield generator field. Bam.
I don't think I can make a list from the entirety of my codex that could handle that. Maybe with some handicap points?
Leth wrote: I was initiallly in the OMG world is ending camp.
However after completing my Ice bucket challenge and listening to some of the points I can see how while it would be difficult for the eldar to maintain that level of fire power. If they are jinking they cant shoot. Otherwise they die like marines, and as we know, marines die quick. With good terrain(even having JSJ) and it is going to be hard to get LOS with that many bike models as well as hide that many bike models.
I think that I will have to wait and see on the D weapons but I think as long as the wave serpent gets shut down, even with the D-weapons I will have to see what happens as well as how the points pan out.
The bikes (and eldar as a whole) cant do EVERYTHING at once. They cant keep OS and take a bunch of wraithknights, they cant have a jink save AND have overwhelming firepower. So on and so forth.
I am still skeptical, but I can see it having so many holes(and I have already found some hard counters) that I doubt it will dominate the tournament scene. Wave serpents made it so unskilled players could do okay, but would fall apart when their counter showed up, I think bikes will be the same considering the amount of terrain I see now-a-days.
Also one of my friends told me to quit being a little bitch and start thinking about how to solve the problem instead of bitching about the problem.
Sure. You're wrong, but sure.
Marines suck because they are slow and are limited to S4 weaponry with peak effectiveness at 12".
Eldar Jetbikes can be 48" from a target, engage at full strength and then be, on average, 43" away from said target. And if you have limited fire that can shoot effectively at 43" away at also Ap3... Then likely you're firing something with limited power. Cool, you killed a few. I won't jink as the remaining dudes still can shoot out another unit next turn.
I appreciate the last comment. It's being totally not Scrub. However, this is an instance of you'll need something that can be high volume, accurate, low AP, plentiful and both able to soak S6 and SD shots. Good luck.
And you can be the hero if you list said hard counters. Because 100+ S6 shot is about half of the Eldar army. The rest will still be nut kicking hard.
He is wrong and you are right... because!?
First of all, marines do not suck. They are the standard for what is a solid unit/set of stats. Marines are also not limited to S4 weaponry as you can give them all sort of special weapons depending on the squad chosen and Drop Pods tend to get Marines into that 12" peak effectiveness you speak of.
On the other hand, the comparison of Windriders to Marines in terms of survivability is appropriate because both have T4 and a 3+ save and experience tells us that T4/3+ saves will only go so far in terms of surviving incoming fire. Therefore, with sufficient firepower, Windriders can be subdued in much the same way Marines can.
Second of all, while Windriders have an effective range of 48" and can be on average 43" away, there is a lot of shooting that can still reach out and hurt Jetbikes. A lot of weapons are either 24-36" on platforms that can move up to 12" thereby matching the Windrider threat range or are 48"+ and usually have a lower AP value.
Indeed, Tau Riptides, Broadsides and units with a buffmander should do sufficient damage to Jetbikes to make sure they die in droves. Seriously, Tau shooting from a well built army can devastate an equal points in bikes. Necrons have a good amount of resilience and can force the Eldar into some difficult positions with what mobility/options Necrons have, Eldar even have good options against Jetbikes and so forth... Flyrants will still be a problem for Jetbikes as well and the list goes on.
Really, anyone can go "but 100 S6 shots!!!" and that is only math-hammer talking. The reality of a 40k game are not some numbers crunched in a vacuum. Player skill, army composition, who goes first, mission objectives and terrain are all factors that make simply saying "but infinity+1 S6 shots=unbeatable!" rather silly.
Seriously, once people start playing with and against the new Eldar, I am sure that things will calm down. I even suspect that the D weapon thing isn't going to be that big of a deal because unlike the Lynx and so forth (which has Eldar Holo-fields and can be placed on a Skyshield), the Wraith units are relatively easy to kill with conventional weaponry and so they may destroy something but then get destroyed in return whereas the real problem D units were things that could cover multiple units and potentially erase them while being REALLY hard to destroy themselves.
So you say first of all marines don't suck.....fallowed by marines are not hard to kill.... In circles you go. Drop pods are not a valid argument, they are a one use item and an additional tax. Scatriders have any time table wide movement gratis. Hell, even without the turbo boost they have a 19" average move a turn thanks to yet more movement they gain in the assault phase because, reasons!
Then you continue by suggesting "Tau Riptides, Broadsides and units with a buffmander should do sufficient damage to Jetbikes to make sure they die in droves."
A. That's simply not true considering broadsides have 36" range weapons that comically enough are not on a relentless platform. Meaning those jetbikes can guarantee to fire and jump out of range. Your other examples require pairing multiple slot selections and a ton opf points which leads to:
B. You continue to demonstrate your lack of understanding in game balance by ignoring the fact that these guys are troops. Other armies struggle to find entries with similar offense per point in the he3avy slots, which you know, are more limited and require less then stellar troops to acquire.
All your examples share a common flaw, none are troops slot options.
Here's an idea, share with us an example of one 1850 list that isn'ty tailored that has a remote shot at holding up to whats been leaked. Otherwise your points are going to continue to fall on deaf ears.
A lot of weapons are either 24-36" on platforms that can move up to 12" thereby matching the Windrider threat range or are 48"+ and usually have a lower AP value.
Care to share with us all these units we are missing, from where I stand I pay 26 ppm for a scourge with a blaster, consider a solid unit yet hilariously out performed by the windrider for example. That's a dedicated fire support unit on a mobile platform btw, and falls flat in comparison.
295 for a wraithknight is just absurdly low... T8 with 6+ on poison now, and immunity to ID AND upgrade to Str D for that ridiculously low point increase.
mr_draken wrote: Heads up, warseer poster is claiming to have the codex and is dropping info
So far:
Would love to know if the farseer powes have changed. Death Mission I'm looking at you...
Yes they have:
Primaris: Guide (no changes)
1: Executioner: Focussed witch fire. 24". Target receives 3 hits, always wounds on 2+. If target diez, another model receives 2 hits. If target dies another gone receives 1 hit.
2: Fatality: You re-roll to wound or to penetrate when firing at target unit. 24"
3: Will of Asuryan: 12" bubble of Fear and Adamantium will
4: Fortune: As always
5: Mind fight: Mainly the same.
6: Ancestral Storm: Warp charges 3 (5" blast), Warp charge 4 (Apoc blast), 24", Haywire, wounds 2+
All Distortion weapons are Strenght D. All of them. But the scythes apply a -1 when rolling on the D table, and the strenght is considered to be 4 when calculating the instant death.
Banshees add +3" when running or assaulting. They igoner the I penalti when assualting through cover.
There are no "chapter tactics".
Wraithknight is LoW (295 points), Jump gargantuan creature
Wraithguard/blades are not tropos anymore if taking a Spiritseer (Only Elites)
Crimson hunter basically the same, but 140 points only.
Sword + Shield: Free (Sword is Strenght D)
Solar cannon + Shield: Free
And the Wraith Cannons?
Is the equipment by default.
D Cannons better be 24" range and be 150 points a piece. If that's true.
It's not.
That would be insane.
Unless that guy offers proof that he has the actual physical codex I disbelieve.
Leth wrote: Well we have seen that warlocks have lost telepathy, so its seems like only farseers might be able to roll that. We also have no idea on what the new psychic powers will be, once again that is not something we can bank on at this point in time.
Then bank on shadowseers at least joining squads to keep them from being shot.
and to get said shadow seers requires a solid 500ish points invested in harlequins.
Also its not immunity to ID, it just causes d3 wounds instead. Very powerful but a subtle difference none the less.
Leth wrote: Well we have seen that warlocks have lost telepathy, so its seems like only farseers might be able to roll that. We also have no idea on what the new psychic powers will be, once again that is not something we can bank on at this point in time.
Then bank on shadowseers at least joining squads to keep them from being shot.
and to get said shadow seers requires a solid 500ish points invested in harlequins.
If only we could get the bikes and farseers for under 1000 points....oh wait
295 with free upgrades is just around my expectations given the leaks so far.... Stupid.
Suddenly my fluffy centerpiece project became TFG option numero uno. I guess I can still enter him into the painting competitions though I am less motivated to work on him now.
Shining spears have 4+ cover save if they moved the previous turn. 25/model. Lance is: 6", F6, Assault 1, Lance. In combat: +3F when charging. Both are AP3.
Wraithblades: Same but 30/model and have Rage.
Hemlock: Same cost, has Lvl 2, can choose Daemonology (Sacred), Telepathy and Battle Runes. D-Scythes are a special D weapon as mentioned above,.
Serpents are 110 points, and shield is now: S6, Assault 2D6, Ignores cover, One use only.
It's nice that the smaller guys get -1 on the D weapons so they can't roll a 6 and erase anything from existence... But I don't think the bog standard vehicle in the game needed to see shots that auto-pen on 3's for d3 hp a piece.
Someday you'll be okay again, land raiders...some day.
niv-mizzet wrote: Hmm, he says the serpent shield is still 60" ignore cover, but now s6, 2d6 shots, and can only shoot once a game.
Wow, so still insane. Sure it's one use only and S6 but now it basically averages the highest result from before. The ignore cover is the biggest issue, it still basically kills every skimmer in my DE at will from anywhere. Oh well, better then nothing only I don't think it matters overall.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mr_draken wrote: Shining spears have 4+ cover save if they moved the previous turn. 25/model. Lance is: 6", F6, Assault 1, Lance. In combat: +3F when charging. Both are AP3.
Wraithblades: Same but 30/model and have Rage.
Hemlock: Same cost, has Lvl 2, can choose Daemonology (Sacred), Telepathy and Battle Runes. D-Scythes are a special D weapon as mentioned above,.
Serpents are 110 points, and shield is now: S6, Assault 2D6, Ignores cover, One use only.
Shining spears should have been the ones with the scatter laser upgrade.
niv-mizzet wrote: It's nice that the smaller guys get -1 on the D weapons so they can't roll a 6 and erase anything from existence... But I don't think the bog standard vehicle in the game needed to see shots that auto-pen on 3's for d3 hp a piece.
Someday you'll be okay again, land raiders...some day.
he didn't say smaller, he said templates. Regular wraith guard still delete stuff whole sale. Honestly D strength wall of flame and templates still makes the scythes stupid good if they remained ap2. "Oh yea btw these are the weak ones they only cause 3+d3 wounds on a 3+"
What news of the other aspect warriors? Scorpions, Warp Spiders, Hawks and Dire Avengers?
Scorpions: 17/model, Infiltration, Stealth, and Shrouded until the fire of fight in combat
Warp Spiders: 19/model Monofilament rule has changed.They roll to wound against I, although the T is still used to calculate ID.
Hawks: 16/model, they move 18", and when moving over a Flyer the can do a special attack. Hits on 4+, S4, AP4 Haywire
Currently, the ITC has banned ranged D-weapons. They have said, depending on how things shake out with this book, that they may have to reconsider their policy or put it up for a new vote. But I think they are waiting to see what happens first.
Red Corsair wrote: I can't wait for the posts trying to hand wave this all off like it is perfectly fine.
It's surely written with 8th Edition in mind. Once all weapons are D, balance will be had. D-Weapons bring balance to the game. Also, you can simplify stuff and get rid of outdated, clunky rules like ... toughness .. or .. armour values, etc...
Elmir wrote: 295 for a wraithknight is just absurdly low... T8 with 6+ on poison now, and immunity to ID AND upgrade to Str D for that ridiculously low point increase.
Do they even care about balance anymore...?
Nope. And they've convinced a huge swathe of the playerbase that caring about game balance makes you a bad person.
However, I am curious to see whether Scorpions got some love.
Oh can Fire Prisms, Falcons, and Night Spinners be taken in squadrons now?
YEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Up to three!!!!!!!! And they have special rules if done so:
Falcon: if Deep Strike, first Falcon does not scatter. Others are place at 4".
Fire Prism: For each additional Fire Prism firing +1S / -1AP
Well they've pretty much ruine the game with one single codex so if what that guy is saying is true, there's no point in playing against Eldar, as their the most powerful force in the entire game now.
Who the hell is every going to take Wave Serpents when you can just have Objective Securing Troops that can take all heavy weapons and batteries of D-Cannons behind a Aegis.
mr_draken wrote: Oh can Fire Prisms, Falcons, and Night Spinners be taken in squadrons now?
YEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Up to three!!!!!!!! And they have special rules if done so:
Falcon: if Deep Strike, first Falcon does not scatter. Others are place at 4".
Fire Prism: For each additional Fire Prism firing +1S / -1AP
Leth wrote: I was initiallly in the OMG world is ending camp.
However after completing my Ice bucket challenge and listening to some of the points I can see how while it would be difficult for the eldar to maintain that level of fire power. If they are jinking they cant shoot. Otherwise they die like marines, and as we know, marines die quick. With good terrain(even having JSJ) and it is going to be hard to get LOS with that many bike models as well as hide that many bike models.
I think that I will have to wait and see on the D weapons but I think as long as the wave serpent gets shut down, even with the D-weapons I will have to see what happens as well as how the points pan out.
The bikes (and eldar as a whole) cant do EVERYTHING at once. They cant keep OS and take a bunch of wraithknights, they cant have a jink save AND have overwhelming firepower. So on and so forth.
I am still skeptical, but I can see it having so many holes(and I have already found some hard counters) that I doubt it will dominate the tournament scene. Wave serpents made it so unskilled players could do okay, but would fall apart when their counter showed up, I think bikes will be the same considering the amount of terrain I see now-a-days.
Also one of my friends told me to quit being a little bitch and start thinking about how to solve the problem instead of bitching about the problem.
They can still shoot if they jink. Add in Guide or Presience and they re-roll their snapfire shots. Not as effective, but still pretty strong.
Well, that would be fair, man. 100+ points for a WS if it weren't an offensive platform would be overcosted.
Oh, I'm not saying otherwise, but its still a great transport and gunship wrapped in one neat package.
Dare I say it, but I think it may be appropriately costed given its abilities.
I personally dislike the shield as a weapon, but being one shot and 24" is limiting. S6 2D6 is powerful though when you need it. At first glance, the serpent looks fine.
Its the EJB and Wraithknights that everyone is concerned with, and rightfully so.
WEEEELP, not playing Eldar sucks for that one guy who loves wraith-units. This codex is full of just straight up NOOOOOOPE! fething GW, I just want a fething BALANCED GAME, YOU WERE DOING SO GOOD UP TO NECRONS.
So since this update happened, I think we can concur Assault Marines will NOT be able to assault flyers as BA are not able to. Furthermore, Wraithknights now kick Imperial Knight ass in-and-out of combat, I can't even ID the fethers with force now.
Quickjager wrote: WEEEELP, not playing Eldar sucks for that one guy who loves wraith-units. This codex is full of just straight up NOOOOOOPE! fething GW, I just want a fething BALANCED GAME, YOU WERE DOING SO GOOD UP TO NECRONS.
So since this update happened, I think we can concur Assault Marines will NOT be able to assault flyers as BA are not able to. Furthermore, Wraithknights now kick Imperial Knight ass in-and-out of combat, I can't even ID the fethers with force now.
If I ever played Eldar it would have been Iyanden style, lots of Wraithguard and Wraithblades. They're slick models and the fluff is awesome. But now, I'm glad I never did. Holy crap am I ever glad I never did.
I just took a look at Warseer -- the person saying that they have the codex says Wraithknights are now LoW and 295 points (with cannons as default weapons).
So probably max 1 WK in most scenes. Price is awesome, though.
Phew, at least wraithknights are Lord's of war. Only way to get multiples is to use the decurion style building and there are too many taxes to spam. I'm actually away from the freak out cliff now.
buddha wrote: Phew, at least wraithknights are Lord's of war. Only way to get multiples is to use the decurion style building and there are too many taxes to spam. I'm actually away from the freak out cliff now.
So, now I have to run Windriders to get more than one Wraithknight? Oh no!
Are they though... I think they eldar "decurion" allows for 12 wraithknights....
Only CAD is limited to 1 (which you'd have to be an idiot to run, unless you want 2 full jetbike squads with obsec firing 40 S6 shots at 48"... for a mere 270p).
I think Phil Kelly needs to be fired at this point.
buddha wrote: Phew, at least wraithknights are Lord's of war. Only way to get multiples is to use the decurion style building and there are too many taxes to spam. I'm actually away from the freak out cliff now.
Almost every competitive scene limits to 1 Lord of War anyhow. Depending on what else is in the LoW slot, this is actually quite limiting. Plus, no more WK spam.
buddha wrote: Phew, at least wraithknights are Lord's of war. Only way to get multiples is to use the decurion style building and there are too many taxes to spam. I'm actually away from the freak out cliff now.
So, now I have to run Windriders to get more than one Wraithknight? Oh no!
And one Vyper.
People will surely not buy one Vyper to spam Scatterbikes and Wraithknights for all the remaining points, no? Should be save.
I'm running an Iyanden army, all painted up in glorious Iyanden colors. I got into Eldar back in 6th because I loved Farseers and Wraithguard -- and now it looks like I'm going to have to reassure my opponent that I'm not a TFG every time I put my models onto the table.
Quickjager wrote: WEEEELP, not playing Eldar sucks for that one guy who loves wraith-units. This codex is full of just straight up NOOOOOOPE! fething GW, I just want a fething BALANCED GAME, YOU WERE DOING SO GOOD UP TO NECRONS.
So since this update happened, I think we can concur Assault Marines will NOT be able to assault flyers as BA are not able to. Furthermore, Wraithknights now kick Imperial Knight ass in-and-out of combat, I can't even ID the fethers with force now.
If I ever played Eldar it would have been Iyanden style, lots of Wraithguard and Wraithblades. They're slick models and the fluff is awesome. But now, I'm glad I never did. Holy crap am I ever glad I never did.
Ironically the only wraith unit in the game that isn't insane is the wraithblade unit, you know the one that I'm not even sure the rules for it are because I have literally never seen it. Also Dire Avengers overwatch as BS2, why?
By the way, for those talking about spamming wk in the warhost it remains to be seen of there are LoW restrictions (the leaker didn't mention anything about the war host). Plus, tournaments limit LoWs anyhow.
Scatter lasers and Cannons should be limited to 3 in a squad, easily enough fire power to be useful and it would give them more of a purpose beyond objective grabbing.
Gotta love the blatant way they make all of their latest releases way overpowered. What received the biggest buffs? Windriders, Wraithguard and Wraith Knights. What are their latest kits........?
. Regular wraith guard still delete stuff whole sale. Honestly D strength wall of flame and templates still makes the scythes stupid good if they remained ap2. "Oh yea btw these are the weak ones they only cause 3+d3 wounds on a 3+"
Any chance you could list all the benefits from the different formations? That would be awesome.
Thanks.
That's a big one but lets go:
Guardian battlehost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.
Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons
Guardian Stormhost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.
Seer council: They harness Warp charges with 3+.
Aspect Host: They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.
Dire Avenger Shrine: Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS
Crimson Death: Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.
Wraithhost: Get battle trance, if targe is at 18" or less from spiritser, reroll to hit
Ranged Strength D is forbidden at the local tournaments where I usually play, and SH/GC are restricted to one per army. I think it's gonna be fine here.
Equipping my Dark Wraithknight with the Glaive and Shield. Gotta bring the D up close to those omnipresent Imperial Knights.
. Regular wraith guard still delete stuff whole sale. Honestly D strength wall of flame and templates still makes the scythes stupid good if they remained ap2. "Oh yea btw these are the weak ones they only cause 3+d3 wounds on a 3+"
That is not a possible Destroyer weapon result.
Exactly, and lets not forget Destroyer wounds are not allocated to a unit, but to specific models. So each D-Scyth can only kill d3 models, just like today.
rollawaythestone wrote: Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons
Holy....
HAH.
That actually makes players have to choose between Scatter Lasers or Shuriken weapons. It makes things somewhat more tolerable...aside from y'know, the whole 10 point Scatter Lasers.
mr_draken wrote: Any chance you could list all the benefits from the different formations? That would be awesome.
Thanks.
That's a big one but lets go:
Guardian battlehost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.
Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons
Guardian Stormhost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.
Seer council: They harness Warp charges with 3+.
Aspect Host: They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.
Dire Avenger Shrine: Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS
Crimson Death: Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.
Wraithhost: Get battle trance, if targe is at 18" or less from spiritser, reroll to hit
Hahaha
Even if you think the Necron book is too good, NONE of the formation bonuses are nearly as good as some of these. Even giving Wraiths RP isn't close to some of this butts.
This sounds like it's beyond ridiculous. And for the longest time I was wanting to do a Ghost Army (I shelved that idea along with many others), but ranged Strength D weapons on regular guys?
They aren't even trying anymore. They must literally be like "I say chaps you know what would be smashing? If Wraithguard were Strength D! Quite fluffy, don't you think? Quite." and not even caring how it unbalances the game.
mr_draken wrote: Any chance you could list all the benefits from the different formations? That would be awesome.
Thanks.
That's a big one but lets go:
Guardian battlehost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.
Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons
Guardian Stormhost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.
Seer council: They harness Warp charges with 3+.
Aspect Host: They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.
Dire Avenger Shrine: Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS
Crimson Death: Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.
Wraithhost: Get battle trance, if targe is at 18" or less from spiritser, reroll to hit
Hahaha
Even if you think the Necron book is too good, NONE of the formation bonuses are nearly as good as some of these. Even giving Wraiths RP isn't close to some of this butts.
So like re-rolling ALL shooting to-hit rolls and to-wound/armor pen is not better than any of these? Hmm k... How about reanimation protocols on Wraiths, not as good either? I beg to differ.
Our gaming group hasn't played a 7th edition game yet. I would love to convince them to play against Eldar next month and film the reaction. I imagine it would look similar to the 2 Girls 1 Cup reaction videos.
Sticking with the CAD is looking better and better. These buffs are terrible! They will cost me all my friends and ability to get games.
I have enough of that “Sorry, that’s just they way the rules/unit is, I know it’s a little broken” just with the current codex. I feel that playing this new one I’m going to have to preface every statement with “Please don’t hit me in the face, but…"
mr_draken wrote: Any chance you could list all the benefits from the different formations? That would be awesome.
Thanks.
That's a big one but lets go:
Guardian battlehost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.
Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons
Guardian Stormhost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul's support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12". Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.
Seer council: They harness Warp charges with 3+.
Aspect Host: They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.
Dire Avenger Shrine: Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS
Crimson Death: Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.
Wraithhost: Get battle trance, if targe is at 18" or less from spiritser, reroll to hit
Hahaha
Even if you think the Necron book is too good, NONE of the formation bonuses are nearly as good as some of these. Even giving Wraiths RP isn't close to some of this butts.
So like re-rolling ALL shooting to-hit rolls and to-wound/armor pen is not better than any of these? Hmm k... How about reanimation protocols on Wraiths, not as good either? I beg to differ.
Destroyers reroll 1s to hit, not all. And rerolling to wounds and pens is strong, but they're 40-50 point models and only have 1 or 2 shots each. Please compare that to rerolling Shuriken Cannons, even for a turn. Especially when they basically get free twin linked with Divination Farseers.
Reanimation Protocol Wraiths don't exist after turn 1 now that everyone realized that Spyders die really quickly.
SarisKhan wrote: Equipping my Dark Wraithknight with the Glaive and Shield. Gotta bring the D up close to those omnipresent Imperial Knights.
If their base stats don't change, wraithknights will have better initiative and more attacks than an imperial knight while actually having a save in CC, for 75 fewer points, and be more survivable against melta and haywire. Literally the only edge IK will have is immunity to S5.
I guess that having your codex banned/refused games is one way to nerf elder, but not at all the way I was expecting/hoping for.
EDIT: And how come guardian weapon platforms cost more than the bike upgrades?
I love it how you can new have things like BS5 Fire Dragons falling out of no-scatter Deep Striking Falcons and it's still a gakky overall choice internally.
I love it how you can new have things like BS5 Fire Dragons falling out of no-scatter Deep Striking Falcons and it's still a gakky overall choice internally.
Who were the guys saying that we are all panicking for no reason and how we don't know the full rules yet?
Serious question now, when does GW fiscal year end? Is it June or July? I am wondering if this is meant to act a shot in the arm for the yearly report.
I guess the only thing holding the WK back is that it can't get really good ranged weapons and D melee at the same time.
The Wraithcannons give you two D shots, but then you don't have D melee (not much consolation if it's still S10 AP2) and you don't have any invuln save. If you have the D sword, you have to run with Scatter Lasers, so you don't have significant ranged presence.
So there's that at least. Well at least that's what I'm saying to myself to justify my buying my first IK last week to be an ally to my Iyanden instead of having a WK.
MrFlutterPie wrote: Who were the guys saying that we are all panicking for no reason and how we don't know the full rules yet?
Serious question now, when does GW fiscal year end? Is it June or July? I am wondering if this is meant to act a shot in the arm for the yearly report.
It's actually a double boost. When no one who buys an Eldar army can get a game they'll have to switch armies to play again. Thereby pumping sales of other armies.
Ok guys, I have to go.
I'm sorry but it is imposible to answer everything
Before leaving I will post the list of special ítems:
- A pistol S4, AP3, Rending
- A sword +2S, AP- Rending and if fighting in a challenge, wounds on 2+ and Instant Death
- One sniper rifle, AP2, 120"
- One ítem that if bearer does not cast any phychic power, or shots during the shooting phase, he can run 48" and may reroll cover saves.
- One sword +1S, AP3, Soulblaze (affects wounded unit and all enemy units at 6")
- One ítem that when bearer diez, 5" template is placed and all models suffer one S4, AP5 hit. If at least, one wound is infflicted, bearer comes back to life, with 1W. One use only
- One ítem that makes psyhic powers required 1 WC less. No inv saves if done so.
The preorders are up, and the Autarch and Shining Spears are exactly the same resin kits on exactly the same 20 year old bikes, only pumped up to match the new prices. You can't even make this gak up.
They aren't even trying anymore. They must literally be like "I say chaps you know what would be smashing? If Wraithguard were Strength D! Quite fluffy, don't you think? Quite." and not even caring how it unbalances the game.
this made me laugh, and made me think of the father from The Wild Thornberrys haha
NTRabbit wrote: The preorders are up, and the Autarch and Shining Spears are exactly the same resin kits on exactly the same 20 year old bikes, only pumped up to match the new prices. You can't even make this gak up.
Isn't that par for the course? At least that's one thing that's consistent...
The worst part is if I actually ever wanted to play Eldar, I'd want Wraithguard, and they'd be so broken now that I'd get called a WAAC powergamer and have people refuse to play just because I want to have a fluffy wraith army like Iyanden (but my own craftworld). For no reason of my own, just because GW can't write rules to save their life. And that's the worst part. Players are going to take the brunt of this and be called WAAC powergaming jackasses for playing Eldar, even if they aren't.
Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.
No pictures? Check.
I call BS.
He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.
TheNewBlood wrote: Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.
No pictures? Check.
I call BS.
He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.
He posted pictures of himself holding the codex, its a couple pages back
TheNewBlood wrote: Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.
No pictures? Check.
I call BS.
He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.
He literally posted a picture of himself holding the codex in his hand. And he's done this before for other codex releases, as well.
TheNewBlood wrote: Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.
No pictures? Check.
I call BS.
He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.
Not even checking the thread... not doing yourself any favors mate especially with that flavor line under the username.
TheNewBlood wrote: Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
TheNewBlood wrote: Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.
No pictures? Check.
I call BS.
He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.
Not even checking the thread... not doing yourself any favors mate especially with that flavor line under the username.
buddha wrote: Phew, at least wraithknights are Lord's of war. Only way to get multiples is to use the decurion style building and there are too many taxes to spam. I'm actually away from the freak out cliff now.
Almost every competitive scene limits to 1 Lord of War anyhow. Depending on what else is in the LoW slot, this is actually quite limiting. Plus, no more WK spam.
Where are you getting this crap from? Funny I have never seen you at the many local New England tournaments, but apparently you are going to speak for them anyway.
TheNewBlood wrote: Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.
No pictures? Check.
I call BS.
He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.
Not even checking the thread... not doing yourself any favors mate especially with that flavor line under the username.
And I would add that nobody in their right mind take BoLS seriously
Elmir wrote: Are they though... I think they eldar "decurion" allows for 12 wraithknights....
Only CAD is limited to 1 (which you'd have to be an idiot to run, unless you want 2 full jetbike squads with obsec firing 40 S6 shots at 48"... for a mere 270p).
I think Phil Kelly needs to be fired at this point.
Two jetbike squads with a wraithknight and a psyker HQ sounds like a good thing to spam with multiple CAD.
Clearly GW just want the Eldar to be better, as befits a rare, dying race
if they were on par with the rest of the codexes too many Eldar warriors would be killed on the gaming tables of the world risking the whole race going extinct,
and that cannot be allowed as the clock is already at 2 minutes to midnight and cannot be allowed to advance further
Nvs wrote: On the bright side, Dark Angels should be fantastic after this release!
Not really. About half way through the DA rewrite they will realize that eldar might just be a tich strong so their next one needs to be dialed back just a bit. So they dump all changes and tone down the DA codex as it was from the start.
LOL...I love this codex, why? Cuz it will force the LFGS to move onto 30k. so rumour might be true about 30k in plastic. This codex forces peopel to stop playign 40k and move onto 30k
Elmir wrote: Are they though... I think they eldar "decurion" allows for 12 wraithknights....
Only CAD is limited to 1 (which you'd have to be an idiot to run, unless you want 2 full jetbike squads with obsec firing 40 S6 shots at 48"... for a mere 270p).
I think Phil Kelly needs to be fired at this point.
Two jetbike squads with a wraithknight and a psyker HQ sounds like a good thing to spam with multiple CAD.
if they were on par with the rest of the codexes too many Eldar warriors would be killed on the gaming tables of the world risking the whole race going extinct,
and that cannot be allowed as the clock is already at 2 minutes to midnight and cannot be allowed to advance further
Maybe GW are forging a narrative where they've decided on a corporate level to match production with the fluff and only a certain number of eldar can be punched out in plastic or gak out in finecast per year as befits a dying race. Every eldar model that dies on a tabletop in game anywhere subtracts from that total!?! Something clearly had to be done to save them.
if they were on par with the rest of the codexes too many Eldar warriors would be killed on the gaming tables of the world risking the whole race going extinct,
and that cannot be allowed as the clock is already at 2 minutes to midnight and cannot be allowed to advance further
Maybe GW are forging a narrative where they've decided on a corporate level to match production with the fluff and only a certain number of eldar can be punched out in plastic or gak out in finecast per year as befits a dying race. Every eldar model that dies on a tabletop in game anywhere subtracts from that total!?! Something clearly had to be done to save them.
The balance to the codex is that every time a non-wraith unit dies you need to physically destroy the model. Spiritseers have a new power that will let them “summon” wraith units using the soul stones from your casualties, assuming you have the minis to represent them.
Elmir wrote: Are they though... I think they eldar "decurion" allows for 12 wraithknights....
Only CAD is limited to 1 (which you'd have to be an idiot to run, unless you want 2 full jetbike squads with obsec firing 40 S6 shots at 48"... for a mere 270p).
I think Phil Kelly needs to be fired at this point.
Two jetbike squads with a wraithknight and a psyker HQ sounds like a good thing to spam with multiple CAD.
Take that three times. Or just take it twice and pad out the bikes and some wraithguard.
Yeah, I like your second suggestion. That list clearly doesn't have enough strength D and gargantuan creatures for a 6000pt apoc... I mean 1500pt normal 40k game (sorry, I get them confused now as they're the same thing). I'd go with two of that CAD and then more bikes and wraithguard as you said to finish out that fair and balanced small side of normal 40k list.
Elmir wrote: Are they though... I think they eldar "decurion" allows for 12 wraithknights....
Only CAD is limited to 1 (which you'd have to be an idiot to run, unless you want 2 full jetbike squads with obsec firing 40 S6 shots at 48"... for a mere 270p).
I think Phil Kelly needs to be fired at this point.
Two jetbike squads with a wraithknight and a psyker HQ sounds like a good thing to spam with multiple CAD.
That is what I been thinking. Multiple CADs, since we have a no restriction gaming group.
TheNewBlood wrote: Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.
No pictures? Check.
I call BS.
He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.
He posted pictures of himself holding the codex, its a couple pages back
Fine. My bad. Not familiar with his track record.
If what he is saying is true, then Eldar will be to 7th edition 40k what Chaos Demons were to 7th edition Fantasy.
I mean seriously, some of those formation bonuses make the Decurion seem tame. The Wraithknight is ridiculously undercosted. It should be almost 400 points, not 295!
Still, we haven't seen everything.
Dude needs to post pictures of the offending pages for me to believe.
warboss wrote: Yeah, I like your second suggestion. That list clearly doesn't have enough strength D and gargantuan creatures for a 6000pt apoc... I mean 1500pt normal 40k game (sorry, I get them confused now as they're the same thing). I'd go with two of that CAD and then more bikes and wraithguard as you said to finish out that fair and balanced small side of normal 40k list.
Heck, just
Jetseer - 115
Jetseer - 115
10 Jetbikes with SL - 270
10 Jetbikes with SL - 270
3 Jetbikes with SL - 81
3 Jetbikes with SL - 81
3 Jetbikes with SL - 81
3 Jetbikes with SL - 81
Wraithknight - 295
1389
Take 400-500 points of WG in Transports and/or Vaul's and you're good to go.
if they were on par with the rest of the codexes too many Eldar warriors would be killed on the gaming tables of the world risking the whole race going extinct,
and that cannot be allowed as the clock is already at 2 minutes to midnight and cannot be allowed to advance further
Maybe GW are forging a narrative where they've decided on a corporate level to match production with the fluff and only a certain number of eldar can be punched out in plastic or gak out in finecast per year as befits a dying race. Every eldar model that dies on a tabletop in game anywhere subtracts from that total!?! Something clearly had to be done to save them.
The balance to the codex is that every time a non-wraith unit dies you need to physically destroy the model. Spiritseers have a new power that will let them “summon” wraith units using the soul stones from your casualties, assuming you have the minis to represent them.
Finecast will now be biodegradeable with a half life of 2 years max (to mesh of course with future codex releases). Even if you get a well cast one, it'll sag and start pock marking in the first year and be an unrecognizable ebay pro-painted meme quality model at 2 years to ensure that you, their valued customer, are always current with the latest sculpts whether you want them or not. Spees Marines will of course have an optional DLC that comes with a temporary stabilizing agent that extends the halflife by 6 months. Sisters of battle however will stay the same in metal at $40 a model.
Nope. The original Farsmeller of the Kraftworld Cheddar is Gav Thorpe. He even had a commerative special character figure made by the community in his likeness in honor of how fair and balanced the 3rd edition codex was (similar to this).
TheNewBlood wrote: Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.
No pictures? Check.
I call BS.
He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.
He posted pictures of himself holding the codex, its a couple pages back
Fine. My bad. Not familiar with his track record.
If what he is saying is true, then Eldar will be to 7th edition 40k what Chaos Demons were to 7th edition Fantasy.
I mean seriously, some of those formation bonuses make the Decurion seem tame. The Wraithknight is ridiculously undercosted. It should be almost 400 points, not 295!
Still, we haven't seen everything.
Dude needs to post pictures of the offending pages for me to believe.
While I still don't think the Jetbikes are THAT bad and everyone was waaayyy over reacting about them, there is absolutely no denying that this new codex is seriously OP. I will continue playing my Eldar because I love them (yes I would marry them if I could) but I will be cycling between my 3 armies I think. Might not be using that second Wraith Knight I just traded for all that much either :/
TheNewBlood wrote: Let's all take a moment and remember that the source of this latest round of rumors is literally some guy on Warseer who says he has the codex. The only reason people are taking this seriously is because BoLS posted it as clickbait.
Rumors confirming everyone's worst fears? Check.
No pictures? Check.
I call BS.
He might have great rumor accuracy in the past, but I'll swallow an entire saltshaker before I believe what this guy is saying.
He posted pictures of himself holding the codex, its a couple pages back
Fine. My bad. Not familiar with his track record.
If what he is saying is true, then Eldar will be to 7th edition 40k what Chaos Demons were to 7th edition Fantasy.
I mean seriously, some of those formation bonuses make the Decurion seem tame. The Wraithknight is ridiculously undercosted. It should be almost 400 points, not 295!
Still, we haven't seen everything.
Dude needs to post pictures of the offending pages for me to believe.
He also did the same thing with the Daemonkin codex and everything he posted was correct....soooooo I'd say you better just accept it.
Hollismason wrote: They just broke the game as far as Competitive Gaming goes, there's no point to play the game in a competitive environment.
They 'just' did this? So they didn't break it with Lords of War dropping giant ranged pieplates of D, they didn't do it with endlessly replicating daemon armies, they didn't do it with quadrupling the playing time with wound allocation and cover etc etc...
They 'just' broke competitive gaming for 40k? I thought they broke it with 6th ed, my mistake...
Hollismason wrote: They just broke the game as far as Competitive Gaming goes, there's no point to play the game in a competitive environment.
They 'just' did this? So they didn't break it with Lords of War dropping giant ranged pieplates of D, they didn't do it with endlessly replicating daemon armies, they didn't do it with quadrupling the playing time with wound allocation and cover etc etc...
They 'just' broke competitive gaming for 40k? I thought they broke it with 6th ed, my mistake...
And yet 40k will continued to be played and everyone here now will continue to be playing and bitching on the forums in the future.
I have been playing this game since Rogue Trader...
Every time something new comes out it is DOOM and GLOOM
I remember when Space marines had T3 and 4up saves, I remember before terminators had 2up 5+
and when they changed it was game breaking... not really
I remember Nidzilla, Eldar Flying Circus, Space Wolf Drop Pods, Grey Knights in 5th "Breaking the Game", 2 up rerollable in 6th with Farseers / Councils and Tzeentch heralds and screamer stars...
People were bitching about serpent shields yet that did not win at Adepticon this year... The world is not ending!
Will the meta change as the game goes on? Sure.... Will we adapt? Will we change tournament missions to adapt to the meta change? Sure to all of those things....
Hollismason wrote: This codex is broken, please explain how this is even remotely a balanced codex.
Can't wait for the Apologists, this is garbage just garbage.
Consider it a challenge buddy!
I know you play CSM... bring helldrakes!
I know you play DE... use the null deployment options, and no-scatter DSwwp!!!
I play lotsa of Orks... we can saturate the table like nobody's business. You wanna bring max jetbikes on the table? Fine... come eat the GREEN TIDE!!!
Some kid is going to walk into a GW store, see some sweet looking space elfs on jetbikes, get into the game and think any other army with less power is garbage.
And yet 40k will continued to be played and everyone here now will continue to be playing and bitching on the forums in the future.
I have been playing this game since Rogue Trader...
Every time something new comes out it is DOOM and GLOOM
I remember when Space marines had T3 and 4up saves, I remember before terminators had 2up 5+
and when they changed it was game breaking... not really
I remember Nidzilla, Eldar Flying Circus, Space Wolf Drop Pods, Grey Knights in 5th "Breaking the Game", 2 up rerollable in 6th with Farseers / Councils and Tzeentch heralds and screamer stars...
People were bitching about serpent shields yet that did not win at Adepticon this year... The world is not ending!
Will the meta change as the game goes on? Sure.... Will we adapt? Will we change tournament missions to adapt to the meta change? Sure to all of those things....
Just Stay calm.
I genuinely think this is probably worse than most, if not all, of those. And just because Eldar didn't win Adepticon doesn't mean there weren't serious concerns about serpent shields.
I love it when serious concerns are just shrugged off as 'doom and gloom' 'the sky is falling' etc.
Think I'll pick up the codex and attempt to make an army probably with the CAD that includes my favourite units such as Rangers and scorpions and just pretty much ignore the strength D stuff, I like wraith units but I really couldn't bare to put them on the table now, I don't play competitively so there's no need to maximise my list, I feel really sorry for the people who genuinely like iyanden and have bought armies to show that. Now the dyeing craft world of the dyeing race is going to be the most populous in every competitive environment.
GW should have stuck with the supplements for sub factions, released one for alaitoc with new Rangers, released one for saim-hann with new jetbikes and when it came to updating the core codex released a supplement for biel-tan with plastic aspects along side it with rules that had you play a fluffy army but buffs to the units so it still made taking them more often as a viable option, more balanced game, plenty of options, more new kits, more happy fans.
And yet 40k will continued to be played and everyone here now will continue to be playing and bitching on the forums in the future.
I have been playing this game since Rogue Trader...
Every time something new comes out it is DOOM and GLOOM
I remember when Space marines had T3 and 4up saves, I remember before terminators had 2up 5+
and when they changed it was game breaking... not really
I remember Nidzilla, Eldar Flying Circus, Space Wolf Drop Pods, Grey Knights in 5th "Breaking the Game", 2 up rerollable in 6th with Farseers / Councils and Tzeentch heralds and screamer stars...
People were bitching about serpent shields yet that did not win at Adepticon this year... The world is not ending!
Will the meta change as the game goes on? Sure.... Will we adapt? Will we change tournament missions to adapt to the meta change? Sure to all of those things....
Just Stay calm.
I genuinely think this is probably worse than most, if not all, of those. And just because Eldar didn't win Adepticon doesn't mean there weren't serious concerns about serpent shields.
I love it when serious concerns are just shrugged off as 'doom and gloom' 'the sky is falling' etc.
I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.
To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me
Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.
Mantle wrote: Think I'll pick up the codex and attempt to make an army probably with the CAD that includes my favourite units such as Rangers and scorpions and just pretty much ignore the strength D stuff, I like wraith units but I really couldn't bare to put them on the table now, I don't play competitively so there's no need to maximise my list, I feel really sorry for the people who genuinely like iyanden and have bought armies to show that. Now the dyeing craft world of the dyeing race is going to be the most populous in every competitive environment.
GW should have stuck with the supplements for sub factions, released one for alaitoc with new Rangers, released one for saim-hann with new jetbikes and when it came to updating the core codex released a supplement for biel-tan with plastic aspects along side it with rules that had you play a fluffy army but buffs to the units so it still made taking them more often as a viable option, more balanced game, plenty of options, more new kits, more happy fans.
I painted ALOT of yellow, most of which I'd feel genuinely bad for putting on the table with this ruleset. Honestly I think I'm gonna stick with the 6th Ed dex and just use the new bikes with that. At least people will still play my Iyanden if I do it that way.
And yet 40k will continued to be played and everyone here now will continue to be playing and bitching on the forums in the future.
I have been playing this game since Rogue Trader...
Every time something new comes out it is DOOM and GLOOM
I remember when Space marines had T3 and 4up saves, I remember before terminators had 2up 5+
and when they changed it was game breaking... not really
I remember Nidzilla, Eldar Flying Circus, Space Wolf Drop Pods, Grey Knights in 5th "Breaking the Game", 2 up rerollable in 6th with Farseers / Councils and Tzeentch heralds and screamer stars...
People were bitching about serpent shields yet that did not win at Adepticon this year... The world is not ending!
Will the meta change as the game goes on? Sure.... Will we adapt? Will we change tournament missions to adapt to the meta change? Sure to all of those things....
With this new codex, the game is no longer a beer and pretzel game, but rather a weekend hallucinogenic binge where you really have no idea what you purchased, and have no recollection if you even rolled any dice.
If what he is saying is true, then Eldar will be to 7th edition 40k what Chaos Demons were to 7th edition Fantasy.
I mean seriously, some of those formation bonuses make the Decurion seem tame. The Wraithknight is ridiculously undercosted. It should be almost 400 points, not 295!
Still, we haven't seen everything.
Dude needs to post pictures of the offending pages for me to believe.
No, its simply a continuation of the Eldar trend. Eldar were mainly broken in 6th after their codex came out. GW, trying to be considerate to the Eldar players, just maintained the status quo. Same for Necrons, just continuing the trend from 6th.
What stuns me is, for a mere 20 points more than the T6 5 wound Bloodthirster w/the St D melee that always strikes at I1, Eldar get a T8, 6 wound GMC with St D melee at I5. This just confirms that GW truly HATES all things Chaos, and doesn't leave me feeling too good about any future Chaos related releases.
Even bigger joke related to this and Chaos? 888 points buys a giant Lord of Battle target for your shiny new 295 point WK to tee off on and destroy turn 1!!! Why? Because GW thought it was cute to make the Khorne Lord of War the magic Khorne number. This crap just really turns me off from the game, and I'm usually pretty pro-GW.
I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.
To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me
Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.
This is because Eldar players have the biggest nerf of all: OLD, CRAPPY MODELS.
ImAGeek wrote: The fact I don't play any more doesn't make any thing I say automatically less valid. But thanks for just dismissing everything I say for no reason.
I think there's probably quite a few Eldar players out there. They're a great looking army, and they consistently have pretty good rules.
Surely you jest. Half the models are ancient. Guardians, are horrible. Rangers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, Howling Banshees, Swooping Hawks, Avatar, Warlocks, are finecast. Every HQ unit other than a single Farseer is resin or metal. Vypers look like crud versus their Dark Eldar counterparts. Vaul's Wrath look like they were designed in the 90's. I guess War Walkers and Dire Avengers look ok.
The only to tier models are Wraith models, hemlocks and the Fire Prism/Night Spinner/Falcon (which are essentially the same model). Oh yes, and Wave Serpents
Most tournaments have a hard LOW limit of one. Just because its in a decurion style does not mean it changes slots.
Hawks are kinda cool, looks like aspects might actually see some table time!! That is exciting, glad to see wave serpents toned down.
Alright, will have to wait and see overall but its not looking too bad. I bring AV 13 so bikes dont scare me much. Wraithknight is either shooting or CC D attacks not both. Auto 6 on run is pretty powerful, still losing OS is a rough hit.
I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.
To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me
Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.
This is because Eldar players have the biggest nerf of all: OLD, CRAPPY MODELS.
Sister players would love to have a conversation about being nerfed. No AA, flyers, only 1 generic HQ (which sucks!) and a single troop choice and a elite section that isn't worth taking. Plus we only have met blah blah blah blah. Oh look I think the clock just reset
Leth wrote: Ehh, Outside of bikes most of it looks alright.
Most tournaments have a hard LOW limit of one. Just because its in a decurion style does not mean it changes slots.
Hawks are kinda cool, looks like aspects might actually see some table time!! That is exciting, glad to see wave serpents toned down.
Alright, will have to wait and see overall but its not looking too bad. I bring AV 13 so bikes dont scare me much. Wraithknight is either shooting or CC D attacks not both. Auto 6 on run is pretty powerful, still losing OS is a rough hit.
Will have to see how lists shake out
Yes, but you seem to be forgetting the Wraithguard, Hemlock, and artillery have St D weapons as well. True, the d-scythes aren't AS nasty, but still, D3 wounds on a 3+ is a singificant boost over their original S4 Distort. A single 1850 CAD could have a WK, 3 5-man units of WG in wave serpents, a Hemlock, and at least one BATTERY of the D-cannon artillery. That is an insane amount of mostly durable ranged D in a standard game.
The first batch of first hand codex rules reports are in! OH MY what the Eldar have become! +++UPDATED+++
Iuchiban has verified with cover pics that he has a copy of Codex Eldar Craftworlds in hand. This stuff is almost certainly correct:
via Iuchiban 4-17-2015
Ok. Let’s go.
All Distortion weapons are Strenght D. All of them. But the scythes apply a -1 when rolling on the D table, and the strenght is considered to be 4 when calculating the instant death.
Step by step.
Banshees add +3″ when running or assaulting. They igoner the I penalti when assualting through cover.
There are no “chapter tactics”.
Yes they have:
Primaris: Guide (no changes)
1: Executioner: Focussed witch fire. 24″. Target receives 3 hits, always wounds on 2+. If target diez, another model receives 2 hits. If target dies another gone receives 1 hit.
2: Fatality: You re-roll to wound or to penetrate when firing at target unit. 24″
3: Will of Asuryan: 12″ bubble of Fear and Adamantium will
4: Fortune: As always
5: Mind fight: Mainly the same.
6: Ancestral Storm: Warp charges 3 (5″ blast), Warp charge 4 (Apoc blast), 24″, Haywire, wounds 2+
Names may be different in the English version. (I own the Spanish one).
Wraithknight is LoW (295 points), Jump gargantuan creature
Wraithguard/blades are not tropos anymore if taking a Spiritseer (Only Elites)
Crimson hunter basically the same, but 140 points only.
No changes on Battle focus of the bladestorm rule. No hints on the Iyanden codex
(Wraithknight) Sword + Shield: Free (Sword is Strenght D)
Solar cannon + Shield: Free
(The Wraithknight’s Heavy Wraithcannons) Is the equipment by default.
(Jetbikes) 17/model, every model can purchase one scatter laser or shuriken cannon for +10 points
(Wraithknight Suncannon) Sun (Sorry for the “solar”) remains the same.
(Wave) Serpents are 110 points, and shield is now: S6, Assault 2D6, Ignores cover, One use only.
Shining spears have 4+ cover save if they moved the previous turn. 25/model. Lance is: 6″, F6, Assault 1, Lance. In combat: +3F when charging. Both are AP3.
Wraithblades: Same but 30/model and have Rage.
Hemlock: Same cost, has Lvl 2, can choose Daemonology (Sacred), Telepathy and Battle Runes. D-Scythes are a special D weapon as mentioned above,.
Scorpions: 17/model, Infiltration, Stealth, and Shrouded until they fire or fight in combat
Warp Spiders: 19/model Monofilament rule has changed.They roll to wound against I, although the T is still used to calculate ID.
Hawks: 16/model, they move 18″, and when moving over a Flyer the can do a special attack. Hits on 4+, S4, AP4 Haywire
(Wraithguard) Cost is the same.
(Regards to Autarchs and Swooping Hawk “no scatter”) Basically the same.
(Squadrons of Falcons/Fire Prisms/Night Spinners) YEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Up to three!!!!!!!! And they have special rules if done so:
Falcon: if Deep Strike, first Falcon does not scatter. Others are place at 4″.
Fire Prism: For each additional Fire Prism firing +1S / -1AP
Night Spinners: +1S for each Night spinner
(Serpent Shield) Nop, only 24″ (range)
(Eldar Warhost Detachment) The main bonus of the Warhost is that they always run 6″.
(Serpent Shield Defence) When working as a shield, it works as before.
Falcon can DS only if taken in a unit of 3.
Guardians: Same
Dire avengers: They overwatch with BS2
Avatar is LoW, but mainly the same
I cannot see any psyker being able to get malefic daemonology
Formation rules:
Guardian battlehost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Guardians can purchase a Platform for free.
Windrider host: Once per game all formation gets Shred when firing shuriken weapons
Guardian Stormhost: Vypers, Warwalkers and Vaul’s support batteries get preferred enemy if they have a unit of Guardias at 12″. Storm guardians can purchase 2 special weapons for free.
Seer council: They harness Warp charges with 3+.
Aspect Host: They re-roll LD tests and get +1 to WS or BS.
Dire Avenger Shrine: Once per game, Shuriken weapons are Assault 3. +1 to BS Crimson Death: Preferred enemy (Flying things), 4+ cover save, and if Jink, may re-roll the cover save.
Wraithhost: Get battle trance, if targe is at 18″ or less from spiritser, reroll to hit
(Warp Spider guns) Why is that? You still have S6. Target needs to have I6 to wound him on 4+.
(Dire Avengers Troops) Yes, they are.
Before leaving I will post the list of special ítems:
– A pistol S4, AP3, Rending
– A sword +2S, AP- Rending and if fighting in a challenge, wounds on 2+ and Instant Death
– One sniper rifle, AP2, 120″
– One ítem that if bearer does not cast any phychic power, or shots during the shooting phase, he can run 48″ and may reroll cover saves.
– One sword +1S, AP3, Soulblaze (affects wounded unit and all enemy units at 6″)
– One ítem that when bearer diez, 5″ template is placed and all models suffer one S4, AP5 hit. If at least, one wound is infflicted, bearer comes back to life, with 1W. One use only
– One ítem that makes psyhic powers required 1 WC less. No inv saves if done so.
And yet 40k will continued to be played and everyone here now will continue to be playing and bitching on the forums in the future.
I have been playing this game since Rogue Trader...
Every time something new comes out it is DOOM and GLOOM
I remember when Space marines had T3 and 4up saves, I remember before terminators had 2up 5+
and when they changed it was game breaking... not really
I remember Nidzilla, Eldar Flying Circus, Space Wolf Drop Pods, Grey Knights in 5th "Breaking the Game", 2 up rerollable in 6th with Farseers / Councils and Tzeentch heralds and screamer stars...
People were bitching about serpent shields yet that did not win at Adepticon this year... The world is not ending!
Will the meta change as the game goes on? Sure.... Will we adapt? Will we change tournament missions to adapt to the meta change? Sure to all of those things....
Just Stay calm.
I genuinely think this is probably worse than most, if not all, of those. And just because Eldar didn't win Adepticon doesn't mean there weren't serious concerns about serpent shields.
I love it when serious concerns are just shrugged off as 'doom and gloom' 'the sky is falling' etc.
I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.
To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me
Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.
I'm also the only Eldar player in my gaming group. The last book "forced" me to came up with list that were not a wave serpent spam or something like that cause I wanted the game to remain fun for all the guys. And it was actually fun building list like that. This new book will be the same. I can see a lot of fun and fluffy builds already
RED EYE JEDI wrote: The new Eldar codex has been nerfed look at the cover It's a warlock !
the last codex was a farseer, the codex has taken a nerf
Yeah but this one has a higher page count making it heavier. Should be useful for beating down the belligerent whiners who don't know how to play the game and won't bother to learn
I'm totally coming up with a Ork hard counter right now. Wouldn't want my manhood challenged over not being able to beat so much cheese that even France is like "Damn!" .
Sister players would love to have a conversation about being nerfed. No AA, flyers, only 1 generic HQ (which sucks!) and a single troop choice and a elite section that isn't worth taking. Plus we only have met blah blah blah blah. Oh look I think the clock just reset
Yes, by the metric of old crappy models getting the best rules, Sisters should be the most powerful faction in the game
- Wraithblades with axe+shield as bodyguard (now have rage)
- 2 squads of about 8 Dire avengers in wave serpents (SCs) - 2 squads of 3 jetbikes with 1 SL in each squad - 5 Rangers
- 6 Spiders - 6 Hawks - 5 Shining Spears
- 3 War Walkers with scatter lasers - Wraithlord with 2x BL
and maybe some banshees or scorps....
Would you guys play that force?
Why not? That doesn't abuse anything at all. But TBH, I'd play anything once, even new ranged D WK spam. If it got too silly, I'd just ask them to tone it down.
I would ask how many Eldar players are actually in your meta, but you already said you don't play anymore.
To people who actually do have a stake in this: how many Eldar players do you normally face? I'm just one person but I am the only Eldar player in my area. Even if I decided to be a bastard and bring all jetbikes and wraithknights I'm still only one person, it's not like I would single-handedly ruin the game for everyone, just the people who had to play me
Eldar could literally have a rule that says they win automatically and it would still only affect a small amount of games in most groups, only way this ruins the game is if half the players in a given meta are Eldar players. That being said if I were in a meta with mostly Eldar players who made WAAC lists, I would look to switch metas because it just wouldn't be fun.
This is because Eldar players have the biggest nerf of all: OLD, CRAPPY MODELS.
Only for a handful of infantry units.
And have you seen some of the IG models? You pretty much have to go FW or 3rd party for half-decent looking models much of the time. Even many of their newer kits are awful looking.
This is to say nothing of Rough Riders so atrocious that GW squatted them for their 20th anniversary
ImAGeek wrote: The fact I don't play any more doesn't make any thing I say automatically less valid. But thanks for just dismissing everything I say for no reason.
I think there's probably quite a few Eldar players out there. They're a great looking army, and they consistently have pretty good rules.
Well when I am asking about the meta that PEOPLE PLAY IN and you don't play the game, it does kind of invalidate what you say about the meta.
ImAGeek wrote: The fact I don't play any more doesn't make any thing I say automatically less valid. But thanks for just dismissing everything I say for no reason.
I think there's probably quite a few Eldar players out there. They're a great looking army, and they consistently have pretty good rules.
Well when I am asking about the meta that PEOPLE PLAY IN and you don't play the game, it does kind of invalidate what you say about the meta.
Don't worry ImAGeek, you'd still be wrong even if you played. Because you made a negative comment about 40k, so you are automatically wrong. And a whiner. Deal with it.
Outside of D-Scythes, I really don't see Eldar being game breaking. Even then, the D-Scythes not getting the "6" result and only effective on a 3+ seems pretty decent. Distort weapons finally live up to their name sake. I am still not a fan of the "6" result on the destroyer table but aside from that, the codex doesn't seem that bad.
Regarding Wraith Knights:
Poisoned/sniper no longer being a reliable means to take them down along with FNP makes them very survivable but pretty much every army still has a way of dealing with them. I don't know about anyone else but I've been able to take down 2-3 Wraith Knights with my armies via shooting, psychic powers (psychic Shriek terrifies my Wraithknights) and close combat.Their ranged weapons being D makes them better at hunting other big things but that is all, really-2 potentially super dead things with good dice shouldn't make or break your game. Especially now that they are generally limited to 1 per army in a competitive setting-they are not that big of a deal. Of course I refer to ITC formats. I don't even think the world wolf power from the old SW dex drew this much of a reaction.
As a side note, I have a friend that loves to take 50 conscripts, cast misfortune on something (makes attacks against target rending) then cast prescience on Conscripts and I think he can even give them re-roll wounds against MCs... That is going to destroy a Wraithknight for a fraction of the cost lol. I only use this example to say that rending is still a viable means to deal with Wraith Knights.
Regarding Wraithguard:
Wraith blades should have had 2 attacks base IMO but rage helps a bit, I made good use of a unit of 8 Wraith Blades in my past GT events and managed to finish in top 3 with this unit playing a large part. Glad they got SOME attention. Losing troops status hurts but we'll see what happens when the full dex is out.
Wraithguard with D-Cannons still kill what they shoot at... Now they kill it even more if they get that lucky 6? One unit of 10 should put out maybe 1-2 6s at best on average dice and that is only really scary to other really big things which get too close, Wraithguard still need to get to their target and that can be mitigated with bubble wrap tactics or interceptor.
Wraithguard with D-Scythes will be very mean but in the end, they only do their damage on a 3+ and no dreaded 6 result... Again, only really scary to vehicles/MCs/high T models as D-Scythes already pretty much erased whatever they hit.
Regarding Jetbikes:
Yes they got a boost with being able to all take heavy weapons but people will find that these bikes are still going to die just as easily as they ever did before... Honestly, in my experience with playing as them and against them, they are not going to be "game-breaking." They only really look scary when you play mathhammer.
regarding Serpents:
Well, they seem to have been brought down in power level, they still have survivability thanks to their shield but no more Pew Pew up to Wazoo which was a bit much.
Overall:
Yes, these are just my opinions but they are based on my experience in playing with and against Eldar and pretty much any cheese that ever existed in 40k. Eldar will still struggle against flyers/flying MCsIMO and it will be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming tournaments.
Which was why I thought it was so apropos.
