Ever since I completely massacred a pair of tau players by with two burna bommers right after our codex dropped, people have not been leaving their characters in positions where I can assassinate them with planes against me.
Myself I expect that stratagem to go poof in codex. But frankly if it buffs rest of the army I'm fine with that. I'm not fan of such crutch things which are rather uninteractive one at that.
To clarify, this was before 'eadbut existed. I just bombed a commanders' drones and emptied the shootas and skorcha missiles into them, killing both. They then tried to get revenge on the bommers, shooting down one of them which then exploded for 3 MW on basically their entire army. I think I had them tabled by the bottom of T2.
To be fair, i'd rather an autoexplode strat over 'eadbutt.
'Eadbutt is gimicky and you have to actively kill your own unit for it. If it werent for the flat3 from burnabomma nobody would like it.
Lot of armies have a vehicle auto explode strat now, and we dont. Wagons/nauts exploding tend to cause a ton of damage, i'd like to force that rather than hope it happens.
Vineheart01 wrote: To be fair, i'd rather an autoexplode strat over 'eadbutt.
'Eadbutt is gimicky and you have to actively kill your own unit for it. If it werent for the flat3 from burnabomma nobody would like it.
Lot of armies have a vehicle auto explode strat now, and we dont. Wagons/nauts exploding tend to cause a ton of damage, i'd like to force that rather than hope it happens.
Yeah, I've always found it bizarre that for a race that gives no hoots about safety and for a faction that literally had a "don't press dat" rule for looted wagons, that we somehow don't have an auto-explode strat baseline for our vehicles.
I agree. I honestly think Burna Bomber gimmick is going to
a) get nerfed if enough people complain
and
b) is playable around.
Hell, with the new apothecary, our favourite way of busting up SM castles is useless anyway. It just heals it up, and if you have 2, the other 1 dies even if you go first.
I'd rather spend the 310 points on 3 megatrakks (I'll scrounge 20 points) or 3 dragsters.
Vineheart01 wrote: To be fair, i'd rather an autoexplode strat over 'eadbutt.
'Eadbutt is gimicky and you have to actively kill your own unit for it. If it werent for the flat3 from burnabomma nobody would like it.
Lot of armies have a vehicle auto explode strat now, and we dont. Wagons/nauts exploding tend to cause a ton of damage, i'd like to force that rather than hope it happens.
Yeah, I've always found it bizarre that for a race that gives no hoots about safety and for a faction that literally had a "don't press dat" rule for looted wagons, that we somehow don't have an auto-explode strat baseline for our vehicles.
Its even weirder than that.
Admech are basically machine cultists, yet theyre fine forcibly exploding their vehicles.
Most space marine vehicles are ancient relics that are irreplaceable, explode automatically.
Orks? Pile of scrap given wheels and some kind of propulsion that is just as likely to function fine as it is just simply fall apart before it reaches the enemy. Nope, no explode most of the time.
It would add such a massively bigger threat to our wagons. If they reach your front lines, better be careful about when you blow them up else they do D6 mortals to you.
Vineheart01 wrote: To be fair, i'd rather an autoexplode strat over 'eadbutt.
'Eadbutt is gimicky and you have to actively kill your own unit for it. If it werent for the flat3 from burnabomma nobody would like it.
Lot of armies have a vehicle auto explode strat now, and we dont. Wagons/nauts exploding tend to cause a ton of damage, i'd like to force that rather than hope it happens.
Yeah, I've always found it bizarre that for a race that gives no hoots about safety and for a faction that literally had a "don't press dat" rule for looted wagons, that we somehow don't have an auto-explode strat baseline for our vehicles.
Its even weirder than that.
Admech are basically machine cultists, yet theyre fine forcibly exploding their vehicles. Most space marine vehicles are ancient relics that are irreplaceable, explode automatically.
Orks? Pile of scrap given wheels and some kind of propulsion that is just as likely to function fine as it is just simply fall apart before it reaches the enemy. Nope, no explode most of the time.
It would add such a massively bigger threat to our wagons. If they reach your front lines, better be careful about when you blow them up else they do D6 mortals to you.
Exactly, being able to punish your opponent for taking out a key vehicle near an objective would be huge and incentivize risks in a battlewagon rush style list. Battlewagons haven't seen much serious play since the end of 8th anyways, it'd be nice to have a functional mechanized list that wasn't just buggies with a forktress and a gunwagon with Da Boomer.
Im not sure i like any faction at all being able to force explode vehicles, as it makes being a melee oriented faction pretty stupid. Ranged units have the opportunity to take them out before they get close, melee cant. why must melee heavy factions have to be punished for destroying a vehicle?
I get the D6 roll, it makes sense, and is balanced, but that its possible to turn all your vehicles in to nukes at will just seem stupid.
a friend of mine plays death guard and im playing Goff. I know he makes them explode, but i also dont have any strategy to deal with it except using my face as my shield, unless im lucky enough my Mek Gunz gets them. I still win 60% of our battles but still. its unfun and have nothing to do with the essence of warhammer tabletop, which is die throwing. Which you dont do, by spending 1 CP to force an explosion.
Imagine playing Khorne daemons and your enemy has purposefully thrown in a lot of many vehicles with a fancy strategem to explode them all in to your face. Im not sure how you're going to avoid that. Im not sure its necessarily going to win you the game, but the premise is just stupid, imo. It takes the gamble out of the tabletop game, and this game was build on die rolls.
There is a correct way to implement it, however, but 1CP stratagem for forcing an explosion with a 100% chance isnt it.
Fluff wise it makes sense for Orks to do so (yet also be unfun), but at least Orks have implemented this rule in a way that makes sense, and isnt OP like force explosions. I lose a vehicle doing so, but my enemy does not. They already lost it, and THEN blows it up. they lose nothing, gain everything.
We have to sacrifice a vehicle that was alive to do so in a blitz, Kamikaze attack. This seem balanced to me. It also seem balanced if the 1CP would be used to simply reduce the amount needed for the explosion to go off, like make it explode on a +4 so that theres at least a bit of die rolling and a 50% chance that it wont happen. The idea of you having a 100% chance to explode something for D6 damage in a 6 inch radius is stupid and should over all be removed.
+4s or 5s seem fair, and actively destroying your own vehicle during the movement phase also seem decently fair.
Beardedragon wrote: Im not sure i like any faction at all being able to force explode vehicles, as it makes being a melee oriented faction pretty re tarded. Ranged units have the opportunity to take them out before they get close, melee cant. why must melee heavy factions have to be punished for destroying a vehicle?
I get the D6 roll, it makes sense, and is balanced, but that its possible to turn all your vehicles in to nukes at will just seem stupid.
a friend of mine plays death guard and im playing Goff. I know he makes them explode, but i also dont have any strategy to deal with it except using my face as my shield. Surprisingly i still win 60% of our battles but still.
Imagine playing Khorne daemons and your enemy has purposefully thrown in a lot of many vehicles with a fancy strategem to explode them all in to your face. Im not sure how you're going to avoid that.
Sure fluff wise it makes sense for Orks to do so, but at least Orks have implemented this rule in a way that makes sense. I lose a vehicle doing so, but my enemy does not. They already lost it, and THEN blows it up. they lose nothing, gain everything.
At least we have to sacrifice a vehicle to do so in a blitz, Kamikaze attack. This seem balanced to me. Or at least make it explode on a +4 so that theres at least a bit of die rolling and a 50% chance that it wont happen. The idea of you having a 100% chance to explode something for D6 damage in a 6 inch radius is stupid and should over all be removed. its an unfun mechanic.
I dunno, you kinda seem to undermine your point when you say that you already win most of your games against Death Guard. So clearly it's not unfair when it comes to competitive reasons. Don't forget you can only use it once a phase anyways, so at best you'll get it off 2-3 times a game max if you're lucky. I don't see how that would make it unfun. You're also forgetting how swingy it can potentially be since D3 and D6 mortals can cause as little as one mortal wound to 3 or 6, which notably you cannot reroll. So it's really more the psychological threat than anything concrete which I think adds to the tactics of the game of making your opponent think twice.
As for it being detrimental to melee armies...I mean most viable melee lists already assume that you're going to go through a lot of incoming fire and counter attacks with enemy CC units, so you either have enough bodies or durability to get through those challenges. If a few mortal wounds from a tank exploding is really going to ruin your army tactics/plans then your army is badly built to begin with.
Beardedragon wrote: Im not sure i like any faction at all being able to force explode vehicles, as it makes being a melee oriented faction pretty re tarded. Ranged units have the opportunity to take them out before they get close, melee cant. why must melee heavy factions have to be punished for destroying a vehicle?
I get the D6 roll, it makes sense, and is balanced, but that its possible to turn all your vehicles in to nukes at will just seem stupid.
a friend of mine plays death guard and im playing Goff. I know he makes them explode, but i also dont have any strategy to deal with it except using my face as my shield. Surprisingly i still win 60% of our battles but still.
Imagine playing Khorne daemons and your enemy has purposefully thrown in a lot of many vehicles with a fancy strategem to explode them all in to your face. Im not sure how you're going to avoid that.
Sure fluff wise it makes sense for Orks to do so, but at least Orks have implemented this rule in a way that makes sense. I lose a vehicle doing so, but my enemy does not. They already lost it, and THEN blows it up. they lose nothing, gain everything.
At least we have to sacrifice a vehicle to do so in a blitz, Kamikaze attack. This seem balanced to me. Or at least make it explode on a +4 so that theres at least a bit of die rolling and a 50% chance that it wont happen. The idea of you having a 100% chance to explode something for D6 damage in a 6 inch radius is stupid and should over all be removed. its an unfun mechanic.
I dunno, you kinda seem to undermine your point when you say that you already win most of your games against Death Guard. So clearly it's not unfair when it comes to competitive reasons. Don't forget you can only use it once a phase anyways, so at best you'll get it off 2-3 times a game max if you're lucky. I don't see how that would make it unfun. You're also forgetting how swingy it can potentially be since D3 and D6 mortals can cause as little as one mortal wound to 3 or 6, which notably you cannot reroll. So it's really more the psychological threat than anything concrete which I think adds to the tactics of the game of making your opponent think twice.
As for it being detrimental to melee armies...I mean most viable melee lists already assume that you're going to go through a lot of incoming fire and counter attacks with enemy CC units, so you either have enough bodies or durability to get through those challenges. If a few mortal wounds from a tank exploding is really going to ruin your army tactics/plans then your army is badly built to begin with.
i agree that its not necessarily unfair (it can be though), i just dont think its fun to see an explosion go off no matter what, in a game based around die rolls.
they should have to roll a +4 or a 5 or something, not just pass the roll no matter what.
and to my defence, nothing he has explodes on a D6 luckily, but the day he force explodes a vehicle for D6 inbetween my KFF blob will probably make me.. slight sad. Its unlikely as hes slow and im only in a blob on turn one but regardless.
I just feel like the premise is stupid and i dont want orks to have a force explosion. I dont want anyone to have it. I mean sure if everyone else has it but then we might as well make it an All faction stratagem.
I want to either keep the stratagem like what we have now for Ead' Butt' or a way of exploding on +4s or +5s because that way there is still risk involved. exploding on choice for 1 CP, offers no risk, and this game often is about taking risks normally.
But i agree with the notion that fluff wise, Orks are about the only race that should have this ability, and basically everyone else shouldnt even remotely be able to do this, lorewise.
Okay, so something that popped into my mind. We really don't have any anti psyker unit. Have no boyz ever thought, "That weird humie git is pretty killey, let's bash his head in." I'd love to see a unit of orks called Weird huntas or something. Maybe have ork weirdboy or imperial psyker brains strapped to their backs in jars, making some nifty aura. Or guns that shoot lightning with the chance of mortal wounds as they poke said brains.
cody.d. wrote: Okay, so something that popped into my mind. We really don't have any anti psyker unit. Have no boyz ever thought, "That weird humie git is pretty killey, let's bash his head in." I'd love to see a unit of orks called Weird huntas or something. Maybe have ork weirdboy or imperial psyker brains strapped to their backs in jars, making some nifty aura. Or guns that shoot lightning with the chance of mortal wounds as they poke said brains.
Yeah, it would be interesting to see how overwhelming WAAAGH! energy doesn't just empower our Weirdboyz in casting but also denying the enemy. I'd draw a bit on the AoS side of things, where the Big WAAAGH! subfaction basically gives you WAAAGH! point counters to gain various buffs/abilities. One of them is increasing your cast/deny by D3 based on how many WAAAGH! points you give up. Depending on what kind of doctrine equivalent ability they give Orks, it's possible that they could make large squads of Orks capable of denying to reflect their WAAAGH! field and give Weirdboyz greater number of denies or bonuses to do so. Frankly, I'm surprised there isn't a WL trait that involves some form of denial ability. There's lots of opportunity for GW to explore the psychic side of Orks.
They could also bring back some of the silly epic weirdboy vehicles? There has been a story somewhere or another with a stompa which was also a platform for a weirdboy to cast powers. I think it was Baneblade.
Honestly it'd be the ork equivalent of the necron super heavy. But with melee and orkiness to back it up.
cody.d. wrote: They could also bring back some of the silly epic weirdboy vehicles? There has been a story somewhere or another with a stompa which was also a platform for a weirdboy to cast powers. I think it was Baneblade.
Honestly it'd be the ork equivalent of the necron super heavy. But with melee and orkiness to back it up.
A Weirdboy tower used to be an Apocalypse option way back in 4th or 5th ed I believe, maybe even further back. I think GW is so focused on SM sometimes they forget that they can do crazy things for other armies like Orks that aren't conventional like marines are.
Grimskul wrote: I dunno, you kinda seem to undermine your point when you say that you already win most of your games against Death Guard. So clearly it's not unfair when it comes to competitive reasons. Don't forget you can only use it once a phase anyways, so at best you'll get it off 2-3 times a game max if you're lucky. I don't see how that would make it unfun. You're also forgetting how swingy it can potentially be since D3 and D6 mortals can cause as little as one mortal wound to 3 or 6, which notably you cannot reroll. So it's really more the psychological threat than anything concrete which I think adds to the tactics of the game of making your opponent think twice.
As for it being detrimental to melee armies...I mean most viable melee lists already assume that you're going to go through a lot of incoming fire and counter attacks with enemy CC units, so you either have enough bodies or durability to get through those challenges. If a few mortal wounds from a tank exploding is really going to ruin your army tactics/plans then your army is badly built to begin with.
Running DG myself, I do have to agree with Beardeddragon - Death Guard's auto-explode is an extremely powerful tool and can easily decide games on its own. That said, it's important to note that almost all DG vehicles minus the not-so-mighty landraider explode for 1 or d3 mortal wounds, aren't exactly cheap and usually can't be spammed. Orks have plenty of vehicles that are cheap and still explode for 6" of d3 mortal wounds and blowing up a bonebreaka or naut in the enemy army has potential to end the game right then and there. In one of my games Mortarion single-handedly defeated an entire craftworld artisans castle by blowing up in their face and rolling hot - and he only does 7" of d3 wounds. D6 damage also has the potential to one-shot anything from a support character like the big mek to named space marine captains. That's a completely different ballpark.
So I think that giving orks an auto-explode stratagem on all vehicles would actually be really bad for the game. While the burna-bommer is extreme efficient due to its flat 3 damage when 'eadbutting, you also kill your own fairly expensive model before it can shoot once, and you are pretty limited in how often you can do it due to slot restrictions. Many of the winning lists also aren't bring burna bommers, so it's not auto-take good either, but rather the ork's version of Infernal Gateway.
cody.d. wrote: They could also bring back some of the silly epic weirdboy vehicles? There has been a story somewhere or another with a stompa which was also a platform for a weirdboy to cast powers. I think it was Baneblade.
Honestly it'd be the ork equivalent of the necron super heavy. But with melee and orkiness to back it up.
A Weirdboy tower used to be an Apocalypse option way back in 4th or 5th ed I believe, maybe even further back. I think GW is so focused on SM sometimes they forget that they can do crazy things for other armies like Orks that aren't conventional like marines are.
Just checked all my 5th edition books, it was gone before I started playing.
Does anyone remember this thing though?
Spoiler:
I want it back as a fortification With out translating the whole thing, it basically was a blast that scattered 4d6" (which you had the option to re-roll).
On 1-2 it pinned everyone within 2d6".
On 3-4 it pinned everyone within 3d6" and also caused them to lose 1 WS and BS for the rest of the turn
On 5-6 it pinned everyone within 4d6" and caused 3d6 S4 hits to each unit.
One shot only
I started playing orks back in 2nd edition...
The weirdboy tower was already gone... afaik it was epic only...
That huge scratch built rokkit thing was I beleive a white dwarf Apoc unit..
I don’t recall when it was shown maybe 2nd edition..
I know it wasn’t in 2-8 edition books or supplements ( I just tossed them all a year ago)
I even had a bunch of armor cast stuff like gobbsmasha and spleenrippa tanks, pulsa rokkit, squig catapult, and original smasha gun and lobba guns, and other ork stuff that’s have have put away downstairs.. except the armor cast stuff I may tossed out too.
Yeah, I remember the pulsa rokkit. Good times. Similar to how Chaos had a literaly doomsday device as one of their options for Apocalypse. You could tell they definitely had a lot more fun back then when it came to making up unit entries.
Jidmah wrote: They really should have a mandatory "go to the pub, get drunk and design a unit"-day once per month.
Definitely better than their bizarre rules after sculpt system they use. You'd think the rules or fluff would inform models rather than the other way around.
Jidmah wrote: They really should have a mandatory "go to the pub, get drunk and design a unit"-day once per month.
they definitly should for the Greenskins race. I mean who came up with the idea of a grot mega tank that literally looks like a land based-ship? its a god damn ship on treads. absolutely brilliant. I wanna buy the Grot Mega tank just for the looks even if its terrible (i have no idea if it is though, the 7 kustom mega blasta shots seem pretty okay but eh.. 9 wounds only).
GW could find inspiration on a lot of secondary resin producers models, there are some pretty cool models out there and ideas too. I know they wont as that would be agreeing with the "enemy" about them creating cool looking models.
maybe they could delve more in to the whole Squig thing? or maybe more Weirdboy stuff as you guys are saying, the Weirdboy Stompa sound amazing.
Or maybe actually add the Gargant?
Werent there once looted tanks in the game? the idea sounds amazing but i have no idea if it was, gameplay wise.
yup they did the same with some more goff specific stuff.
The Goff Rokker would have been awesome to include in games but sadly nope no points just powerlevel openplay only.
I swear at this point half of the ork units are in legends/open play only now.
Does anyone know some good tactics channels or blogs for advice on orks in 9th? Going to try and get back into my orks since our group needs more xenos players and am kind of stumped on where to start. Rather than spam the thread with a bunch of questions or read through 20 pages of the thread was hoping to find somewhere to at least learn the basics of 9th ed orks and go from there.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Does anyone know some good tactics channels or blogs for advice on orks in 9th? Going to try and get back into my orks since our group needs more xenos players and am kind of stumped on where to start. Rather than spam the thread with a bunch of questions or read through 20 pages of the thread was hoping to find somewhere to at least learn the basics of 9th ed orks and go from there.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Does anyone know some good tactics channels or blogs for advice on orks in 9th? Going to try and get back into my orks since our group needs more xenos players and am kind of stumped on where to start. Rather than spam the thread with a bunch of questions or read through 20 pages of the thread was hoping to find somewhere to at least learn the basics of 9th ed orks and go from there.
Tabletop Titans provides good info on all factions, here in includes Orks too. The guy Adrian plays them often
MrMoustaffa wrote: Does anyone know some good tactics channels or blogs for advice on orks in 9th? Going to try and get back into my orks since our group needs more xenos players and am kind of stumped on where to start. Rather than spam the thread with a bunch of questions or read through 20 pages of the thread was hoping to find somewhere to at least learn the basics of 9th ed orks and go from there.
Check the first post for info, next best thing is probably goonhammer.
But spamming this thread is fine as well, that's the whole point of it - orks helping orks.
Hey that reminds me, would you guys think its fair for orks to use 12" flamethrowers now that (i think) space marine flamethrowers are now 12" rather than 8" due to their new codexes?
And given that orks simply havent gotten their codex yet we havent gotten a real change yet. But i hear from different sources that they start playing with 12" flamethrowers.
Do you guys play around with 12" flamethrowers too?
I see different tabletop channels talk around this change and my last opponent, an imperial knight guy said i could do it if i wanted, he wouldnt mind
In a casual game sure I doubt your opponent would mind. In any tourney or competitive game it's always gonna be by the book. Though perhaps we'll see some changes coming out with the forgeworld book. It's possible any changes we see come out could be FAQed to make the codex match. Or they'll wait till our codex comes out them FAQ forgeworld to match. It'll be curious to see.
I would wait until the codex as gw has a history of giving orks weapons that at one time were the equivalent of marine tech but since it was an ork using it it was downgraded.
Some examples: the mega blasta was originally a plasma gun equivalent, burnas were flamethrower equivalents, and big shootas were heavy Bolter equivalents.
So, just because marines are getting weapon upgrades doesn’t mean orks will get those upgrades, ideally we will see some weapon improvements but gw might just make all our weapons cheaper in points
russellmoo wrote: I would wait until the codex as gw has a history of giving orks weapons that at one time were the equivalent of marine tech but since it was an ork using it it was downgraded.
Some examples: the mega blasta was originally a plasma gun equivalent, burnas were flamethrower equivalents, and big shootas were heavy Bolter equivalents.
So, just because marines are getting weapon upgrades doesn’t mean orks will get those upgrades, ideally we will see some weapon improvements but gw might just make all our weapons cheaper in points
thanks guys thats what i thought.
I also said toThe imperial knight guy that i didnt want to accidentially cheat so untill it was in my codex, i wouldnt use it.
But if everyone of ya'll used it, i would find it safe to use and do so as well
Although the imperial knight guy said it would most likely happen for everyone, because people were sad that flamethrowers were useless at 8 inch range, and thus many forgoes them. Which i agree with. if they're 12 inch, ill definitly use flamethrowers on more vehicles. and hell, even the burnaboys could potentially be an awesome unit if you deepstrike them in a truk or something.
My deff dread with 2 saws and 2 klaws would definitly let lose at least 1 of the melee weapons in exchange for a flamethrower then.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Does anyone know some good tactics channels or blogs for advice on orks in 9th? Going to try and get back into my orks since our group needs more xenos players and am kind of stumped on where to start. Rather than spam the thread with a bunch of questions or read through 20 pages of the thread was hoping to find somewhere to at least learn the basics of 9th ed orks and go from there.
Tabletop Titans provides good info on all factions, here in includes Orks too. The guy Adrian plays them often
Ah the green tau
Don't think they have specific ork videos but unsurprisingly br's involving orks plenty talk about them and they have atleast couple for 9th
If skorchas do go to 12" I'm certainly going to give a trio of dreads armed with 4 a shot for anti infantry work. Drop, shoot then try to keep them in combat as much as possible with chaff, constantly shooting into melee against anything that can't kill them easily.
cody.d. wrote: If skorchas do go to 12" I'm certainly going to give a trio of dreads armed with 4 a shot for anti infantry work. Drop, shoot then try to keep them in combat as much as possible with chaff, constantly shooting into melee against anything that can't kill them easily.
Definitely gives us a very nasty backfield threat presence, though I would personally go for duo quad-skorcha dreads given that it's incredibly hard to have a unit of 3 fit into enemy territory consistently.
I also realize that this makes kombi skorcha nobz in a trukk/battlewagon our potential new version of the old school burnawagon, though it's hard to argue whether that's better than just taking more KBB.
Also can they just make burnas D6 shots please? Burna boyz have been garbage for too long, throw them a bone for Gork's sake.
Not sure if i would ever recommend going full skorcha.
The full KMB thing kinda works because KMB is at least a pretty mean gun, and sparklybitz make it meaner. Skorchas are unlikely to get a damage boost and in the end 4D6 S5 AP1 1D attacks isnt that gamebreaking (especially when theyre so expensive)
Atleast take 1 klaw. That way it may not have 4-5 attacks but it still has rude attacks so it can still do something in melee. If you take all the klaws away it does less damage than a trukkboy squad in melee lol
I mean, It averages out to 14 Str 5 AP 1 hits right? Even for 100pts that's not bad by any margins. Yeah there's better but it's a fully autonomous unit that needs no real support or buffs to do it's thing. You simply drop them via TP Strike then let them do their thing. Cause havoc, scare the enemy and tie things up wherever they can.
They'd be find in evil sunz to assure that charge, great in freebootaz to proc the trait, decent in deffskulls for that lucky invul and the occasional RR wound.
But yeah this is mostly an idea that's for fun with some potential for strategic use. Who doesn't like the idea of a walker dripping with flamethrowers?
cody.d. wrote: I mean, It averages out to 14 Str 5 AP 1 hits right? Even for 100pts that's not bad by any margins. Yeah there's better but it's a fully autonomous unit that needs no real support or buffs to do it's thing. You simply drop them via TP Strike then let them do their thing. Cause havoc, scare the enemy and tie things up wherever they can.
They'd be find in evil sunz to assure that charge, great in freebootaz to proc the trait, decent in deffskulls for that lucky invul and the occasional RR wound.
But yeah this is mostly an idea that's for fun with some potential for strategic use. Who doesn't like the idea of a walker dripping with flamethrowers?
Let's hope when GW gets to updating our weapons to match the new changes that they don't arbitrarily limit the amount that we can take. I wouldn't put it past them to only allow you to take only 2 skorchas max.
It's certainly possible they may change the data sheet to be 2 Klaws mandatory then 2 additional choices from the list. Rather than the 2 klaws max and besides that take whatever you want.
Just read the errata for the 8th codex, regarding look out sir, and had a thought occur. One of the viable LOS people is:
"A friendly non-Character unit that contains 1 or more Vehicle or Monster models."
So, I wonder if Deffkoptas may have a good role in character screening. Unlike all our other screens (bikes for the wartrike, boys for the footsloggers) the deffkopta can screen a character with just a single kopta. A unit of 3 is fast enough to support a deepstriking character, and sturdy enough to frustrate the opponent. Particularly if they don't realise koptas are vehicles, so don't know to dedicate enough firepower to kill all 3 instead of just 1.
I wonder if there's any scope for a da-jumped character with Opportunist to try and snipe enemy characters. With deffkoptas having a 20" move if they advance, you should easily be able to get 3 koptas and a character into 18" range.
That then leaves the question of what character to use. SAG mek may work, especially with more dakka. Alternatively, a megamek with tellyport blasta has a chance of working as well. Warbosses wouldn't cut it, even with the relic shootas (haha... they are so useless...).
It would also be useful for covering weirdboys who are trying to perform psychic ritual. 5 deffkoptas around a weirdboy isn't going to break the bank, but the weirdboy is safe until all of the koptas are dead - by which time, we can hope that there will be other units moving in to cover him!
Koptas are decent retinues for wartrikes and the returning biker warboss, but keep in mind that they aren't cheap and trukks or buggies can do the same thing.
In general this a very important rule for orks. A good way to protect a SAG if you still want to run one is parking a gunwagon next to it, a unit of trukk boyz does a good job protecting a weird boy or KFF mek and Thrakka keeps all the characters around him safe as well.
Ok so I did some reading, thanks for the help guys. I didn't realize you had a nice primer in the OP, it was very helpful. That was my bad for not checking, usually those are woefully out of date. Long story short, I did a big impulse buy from kromlech and picked up a few things from FW too. Namely I've got
*60 boyz, half shoota, half choppa
*30 grots (didn't know they sucked when I ordered)
*10 tankbustas with 3 goliaths to use as bomb squigs
*Weirdboy, warboss, kff mek, painboy
From FW I got
*Biker boss
*3 supakannon battlewagons because they're only about $12 more than a regular battlewagon, and I figured I could use the kannonz as mekguns if the new FW rules don't help them.
From what I've read, it looks like if I get some more boyz, some of the scrapjets, commandos, and maybe some dakkajets or additional mek guns I'll have a pretty solid army. Was also debating on some manz and trukks but with 3 battlewagons wasn't really sure if I needed trukks. As my guys are the greatcoat orks I'm planning on running Blood Axes where possible but if I need to try hard I can probably run them as evil sunz with minimal changes to my list and do alright.
Can anyone think of anything else that would be good to pick up to round out the collection to play with? Seems most lists either run a green tide of around 90-120 orks or some sort of trukk and speed freaks spam. I figured next purchase would be 30 more boyz and the scrapjets then go from there.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Ok so I did some reading, thanks for the help guys. I didn't realize you had a nice primer in the OP, it was very helpful. That was my bad for not checking, usually those are woefully out of date. Long story short, I did a big impulse buy from kromlech and picked up a few things from FW too. Namely I've got
*60 boyz, half shoota, half choppa
*30 grots (didn't know they sucked when I ordered)
*10 tankbustas with 3 goliaths to use as bomb squigs
*Weirdboy, warboss, kff mek, painboy
From FW I got
*Biker boss
*3 supakannon battlewagons because they're only about $12 more than a regular battlewagon, and I figured I could use the kannonz as mekguns if the new FW rules don't help them.
From what I've read, it looks like if I get some more boyz, some of the scrapjets, commandos, and maybe some dakkajets or additional mek guns I'll have a pretty solid army. Was also debating on some manz and trukks but with 3 battlewagons wasn't really sure if I needed trukks. As my guys are the greatcoat orks I'm planning on running Blood Axes where possible but if I need to try hard I can probably run them as evil sunz with minimal changes to my list and do alright.
Can anyone think of anything else that would be good to pick up to round out the collection to play with? Seems most lists either run a green tide of around 90-120 orks or some sort of trukk and speed freaks spam. I figured next purchase would be 30 more boyz and the scrapjets then go from there.
how much money do you even have. You bought so much in one go. If its not painted, it will take you even months to put together and paint as well.
But yes, not enough Dakka.
On a serious note I think when you have all this you have more than i do.
I have 40 boyz + 4 boss nobs
10 Grots
9 Nobz + ammo runt
3 Mega Nobz
Pain Boy
A Chinork warkopta
A Trukk
A single Killa Kan a guy literally send me over mail that he custom made from scrap
A Deff Dread
4x Grot tanks i got for free from Kromlech
1 Mek Gun
Ghaz + Makari
Warboss
Big mek with KFF (made from a nob and a KFF from the Mega nobs)
Weird Boy
I have ordered a Supa Kannon, Big Trakk and a Warboss on Warbike from Forge Worlds, and today I bought 10 Grots + a package of Killa Kans. The Grots will be used in a conversion from Grot tanks --> Mek Gunz (at the behest from the people of this forum) so my 4 grot tanks and 1 Mek Gunz will be 5 Mek Gunz eventually.
MrMoustaffa wrote: From what I've read, it looks like if I get some more boyz, some of the scrapjets, commandos, and maybe some dakkajets or additional mek guns I'll have a pretty solid army. Was also debating on some manz and trukks but with 3 battlewagons wasn't really sure if I needed trukks. As my guys are the greatcoat orks I'm planning on running Blood Axes where possible but if I need to try hard I can probably run them as evil sunz with minimal changes to my list and do alright.
Can anyone think of anything else that would be good to pick up to round out the collection to play with? Seems most lists either run a green tide of around 90-120 orks or some sort of trukk and speed freaks spam. I figured next purchase would be 30 more boyz and the scrapjets then go from there.
Sounds like a solid plan, more boyz and scrapjets will work towards a solid foundation. In general, you should decide soon whether you want to have foot sloggers or a mech army, as the two styles don't mix well. Within those styles there are plenty of options you can take.
Just a word of advice on the bloodaxes - it's essentially playing without any culture at all. If you keep getting curb-stomped just use deff skulls, as they are a great all-round culture that just makes any unit you bring a little bit better. It's also not like non-orks can tell ork clans appart.
Well, Jidmah is almost right this time. You need more boyz OR scrapjets / speadfreak.
Good working lists are more or less spam of one type. Choose one and build one. It ' s a lot of models, a lot of work to do. And lot of games to find the right way to to play the list.
So focus.
Your shopping list aims to “have everything”. Yeah. That' s cool. Almost enough dakka. But it ' s huge pile of models. I'm not there with my 8000 points army that fits in 2 large travel suitcases. Like a hard shell suitcaases with the wheels and handles you take to your vacation.
Not a crazy small citadel boxes, that are pretty useless for orks.
Second, be ready that the meta = most powerfull lists change due rules changes every 6 months. So if you start building one type of list now, you will paly it wih the total different rules.
Green tides will be however always the solid solution. And now the buggies, because they are a new models, it' s cool to support the, to sell the new models.
Mek Gunz and Jets are something like a Joker card, especially if you build them fully magnetized. There will be almost always some decent plane and some decent mek gun. But spam again - you need at least 2 jets and 6 mek gunz, to be able to play them.
If you find a type of the list, build a core with 2 aspects in mind:
You need to move your army fast around the table. So either fast units, or Da Jump / other deepstrike or combination. In this addition you need some small object grabbers also.
You need hard hitting units. Boyz are not hard hitting units. List back in this forum for couple of pages, me and jidmah we described the simple test to check you ability to punch.
In praxis = green tide list? Have some MANz or something like this.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You wrote what you bought. Well cool. Your core is 3 battlewagons. Cool models and was not a part of the meta for a long time. Solid chance they became a stars soon. New rules for suppakannon comes in 2 weeks, maybe it will be the option.
So - for example - make a list based on 3 BW. one with big gun (Da Boomer now, something else later) in the backfield, 2 BW marching forward to charge enemies as soon as possible and block them in their deploy. So you need some crew on board. 10 boyz checked, KFF megamek in one of them and warboss in second one to give them a brutal punch for cheap money.
Than you need some objective grabbers, so commandos etc. You can kitbash them from boyz kit.
That sounds like a start of solid list. Try it and you will see, what lacks.
How do you use your Trike when NOT planning a T1 charge bomb? Do you even need that advance+charge combo from T2 onwards? Effectwise the Trike lacks on all fields and eats 1-2 CP (Roar and/or Cybork Body) to be properly useful and survive to late game. I don't see how it can return your investment in lists other than aggressive swarming.
AarresaariAarre wrote: How do you use your Trike when NOT planning a T1 charge bomb? Do you even need that advance+charge combo from T2 onwards? Effectwise the Trike lacks on all fields and eats 1-2 CP (Roar and/or Cybork Body) to be properly useful and survive to late game. I don't see how it can return your investment in lists other than aggressive swarming.
You use it as a shooting unit with Look out sir! character protection. Always make sure it can't be shot by keeping it near other vehicles. With deff skulls re-rolls its melta can deal quite some damage to vehicles and monsters, and boomsticks and flamers are great for clearing out infantry. Only charge when you absolutely have to, or when you are in a safe place after charging.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In related new, more statistics from goonhammer, this time analyzing over 6000 games.
Short version is that orks are doing really good unless you face harlequins, marines or clowns.
Another take away for me is that deploy scramblers appears to be vastly superior to teleport homers, and that bring it down/assassinate might already be worth taking if you can gain 9-12 VP from it.
The most important thing: Warboss on Warbike still gets the choice of BC and PK, has the WARBOSS keyword and now the Speedwaaagh! Aura just like the wartrike. It's hard to read, but apparently it has gone up to 5 attacks base?
Jidmah wrote: The most important thing: Warboss on Warbike still gets the choice of BC and PK, has the WARBOSS keyword and now the Speedwaaagh! Aura just like the wartrike.
It's hard to read, but apparently it has gone up to 5 attacks base?
Yeah seems to be 5. 115 points
Big trakk get ramshackle and spiked ram dealim 4+ D3MW
Kannonwagen has +1 BS with Supakannon.
Note worthy for many vehicles from Forge world: Most have Ramshackled now.
Grot tanks
35 points, big shoota, can replace with the usual weapons
Ramshackled
Leadership 6 or 7. They die less to morale phase now.
Grot Mega tank
90 points, 11 wounds, ramshackled
Nobz on warbikes
Speed freeks, 3 wounds, 35 per model + gear
Mega Dread
16 wounds 175 points, 3D6 charge discard 1, ramshackled,
loses its old Super charge ability
Loses its ramshackled monster ability
Meka dread
Repair clan vehicles (not itself), ramshackled, 165 pts, no KFF Loses its ramshackled monster ability
Squiggoth
190 points, 18 wounds I believe, 4 attacks (degrades) str 8 (degrades) -3 AP, DmgD6. Can equip a kannon.
Big Trakk
Spiked Ram for better charges, ramshackled, 85 points, +15 for kannon, + 50 for supa kannon
Loses super scorcha (feth my life).
KannonWagon
Hits on +4 with its supa kannon, no ramshackled. Transports 6 models, 170 points
Gargantuan squiggoth
36 wounds, 510 points, 1 Kannon, or supa kannon, howdah, stampedes: 2+ D6 mortals, move across models, retreat and attack, on a 6 it explodes, dakka dakka, ere we go, Lord of war,
Kill tank
275 points,
Bursta kannon +50 points
+1 to hit if within half range
Replace with giga shoota, heavy 30, +1 to hit if within half range.
Regain D3 wounds
ramshackled
3+ armor save
Warboss on warbike have not even 5 attacks, but also T7 for nice price tag 115pointa
Big Trakk became solid alternative to reguar Trukk! I love it, go to paint mine!
And Nob bikers still have the power staba. They removed all OOP weapons and models and keep the power staba there, despite the fact, they never produced it, nobody even knows, how does it looks like and what the hack it is...
Tomsug wrote: Warboss on warbike have not even 5 attacks, but also T7 for nice price tag 115pointa
Big Trakk became solid alternative to reguar Trukk! I love it, go to paint mine!
i am super sad about the loss of the Supa Scorcha as i bought a Big trakk with that weapon in mind. But i guess its good i also bought a Supa Kannon along side it.
I think its a bit weird now, in that it fights for its place in the rooster along side some battlewagon models. Thats why i liked the Supa Scorcha as it set it apart from battlewagons.
Now its just a different type of kannon wagon type ish.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tomsug wrote: Warboss on warbike have not even 5 attacks, but also T7 for nice price tag 115pointa
Big Trakk became solid alternative to reguar Trukk! I love it, go to paint mine!
And Nob bikers still have the power staba. They removed all OOP weapons and models and keep the power staba there, despite the fact, they never produced it, nobody even knows, how does it looks like and what the hack it is...
the power stabba comes in the regular nob kits? that weapon is still being made.
im also kinda saddened by the fact that the Zapp weapons are gone. If you played against custodes it would be pretty decent to have mortal wounds weapons.
My last information is, that it is not the power staba but some old creapy harpoon Weapon. No idea, not important. Skip it
Yeah, dead of supa skorcha makes me also sad, but now it seems, Big Trakk has finaly his niche - faster and more durable transport dealing some MW in charge.
What is very important question now - does it come some update on PA and CODEX books alongside with this book? A lot of custom jobs or strategems seems to be re-worded to fit this book. Squig tyres, pistons and bitz, some cultures... than it could be even more exciting.
Tomsug wrote: My last information is, that it is not the power staba but some old creapy harpoon Weapon. No idea, not important. Skip it
Yeah, dead of supa skorcha makes me also sad, but now it seems, Big Trakk has finaly his niche - faster and more durable transport dealing some MW in charge.
What is very important question now - does it come some update on PA and CODEX books alongside with this book? A lot of custom jobs or strategems seems to be re-worded to fit this book. Squig tyres, pistons and bitz, some cultures... than it could be even more exciting.
I completely forgot about the Spiked Ram ability for better melee chargings of the vehicle. thats actually a very good point. Ill put my Mega Nobz in this vehicle and my Nobz in my regular Trukk
And yes i hope when the codex hits, many things like Kustom Jobs that should work for forge world units do actually work for them, as well as specialist cultures. Tin eads should work for Mega/Meka Dreads for instance.
The harpoon is the powerstabba, originally it was just a cybork upgrade part that was mostly used to convert 'urty syringes for pain boyz
Kannonwagon for 170 hitting on 4+ seem to be a decent choice that pairs well with da boomer, either to hold your backfield or transport flash gits or tank bustas somewhere - unlike gunwagons, they have retained their open topped rule.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and the squiggoth got a rather big points hike, probably kicking it out of competitive territory.
Dreads and grot tank and killtank seems to be buffed too, but I never played them, so hard comment... Definitely weapon buff and price drop.
Oh I see the reason for price drop of the Big Trakk - it is just 12 wounds (used to be 15)
Options:
Trukk 10” T6 W10 4+ for 65 points incl 1 big shoota
Big Trukk. 14“ T6 W12 4+ for 85 points with spiked ram dealing MW with charge. There are 2 big shootas (5p each) that should be in price, if I understand the head of the page with the points correctly. Or +10p??
Both have ramshackle and both have 12 transport capacity.
I'm wondering if that's a copy paste issue from the older edition model of not having costs baked into the unit that they've gone back to.
But aside from the losses of the chinork, the supa skorcha for big trakks and a few small things here and there, it's actually been a good release for us boyz! Bring out the fungus beer, FW is back on the menu!
Also, with the WB on Bike now being T7 base, I'm tempted to see if giving him T8 and the Cybork Body and Biggest Boss upgrade would make him the tankiest HQ we've had since Ghazzy.
Tomsug wrote: Damn I' m confused. What is and what is not in price?
Basic load-out of the warboss is a killsaw (this is new), replacing it with a big choppa or powerklaw is free. He no longer has any shooting weapons besides the dakka guns, by the way.
This is how 9th edition calculates costs, Space Marines and Necrons are the same. Time to get used to it
And this coming from the man who loved and used the Supa Skorcha.
It's base is 85 points with big shootas, 20 more than a trukk, and gains:
+2 wounds
+1 big shoota
RAM MORTALS.
I honesty think you can easily use Big Trakks as straight up subs for Trukks if you want to gain more mortals on the charge.
Also, Nob Bikers are now 5 point cheaper for whatever reason. I think they actually might have some play. 40 points for a single kill saw version, or 45 for the double...
Not in a buggy list, you basically just have one slot reserved for da boomer or mek guns.
Slots might be more of an issue with nob bikers, now that they compete with all the buggies and koptas.
My old 5th edition deathstar with 3 PK, two big choppas and a killsaw (former painboy) now clocks in at 260... that might actually be low enough to give them a try again.
So do these Nob Warbikers supercede the ones in our codex? Or can you take both? (Not that you would, just wondering if they'll write them out of the next codex now that FW has it covered).
Jidmah wrote: Not in a buggy list, you basically just have one slot reserved for da boomer or mek guns.
Slots might be more of an issue with nob bikers, now that they compete with all the buggies and koptas.
My old 5th edition deathstar with 3 PK, two big choppas and a killsaw (former painboy) now clocks in at 260... that might actually be low enough to give them a try again.
Dammnnnn I didn't notice that. Yeah, Nob Bikers are now FA.
That's rough. Elite slot was really UNCROWDED, and the FA slot is insanely crowded for the style of list they fit into.
I am super bullish on them, though. 40 ppm for 1 saw, 45 for 2. They seem legitimately interesting now?
Grimskul wrote: So do these Nob Warbikers supercede the ones in our codex? Or can you take both? (Not that you would, just wondering if they'll write them out of the next codex now that FW has it covered).
Newest datasheet wins.
It's fairly safe to assume that nob bikers will be gone from our next codex, the entire book is written in a way that it functions as an "add-on" to the codex. If a rule like ramshackle, dakkda³ or speedwaaagh! changes, the FW units will change in the same manner without errata being necessary.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tulun wrote: I am super bullish on them, though. 40 ppm for 1 saw, 45 for 2. They seem legitimately interesting now?
I don't think they can have pairs of saws - you can only replace the choppa.
Cool, good to see Nob Bikers actually be a thing again after how many editions.
Also, glad to see Ramshackle spreading more around as a vehicle faction rule. I suspect we'll be seeing the rest of our Ork vehicles getting the same treatment once our 9th ed codex gets released.
Grimskul wrote: Cool, good to see Nob Bikers actually be a thing again after how many editions.
They never went anywhere? Besides being overcosted so nobody took them, which it doesn't look like this changes while adding in the problem of moving them to an extremely competitive FO slot.
Grimskul wrote: Cool, good to see Nob Bikers actually be a thing again after how many editions.
They never went anywhere? Besides being overcosted so nobody took them, which it doesn't look like this changes while adding in the problem of moving them to an extremely competitive FO slot.
I think the FO thing is a bigger deal, but if you go Outrider, you can always take them instead of say.. Deff Koptas.
Honestly, although they aren't as competitive as the SM version, I think 40 points for a self delivering Kill Saw Nob is worth looking at. Yeah, Mega Nobs are better *if* they get into combat, but they suffer from needing something to get them there.
So the point differential is actually a lot higher than it looks. Frankly, nob bikers w/ a 14" move can potentially deliver themselves into combat even without a nearby Bike boss / Wartrike. They also keep their chaff clearing guns.
In a buggy / mechanized style list, I think you could easily justify giving them a look see.
I am very happy about these changes. I have a few models and kitbashed a lot more FW stuff, I can now run them without feeling like I'm conceding turn 0. Shame about the Chinork, Supa-Skorcha, and Supa-Lobbas.
Dual wielding Lifta Droppas on a Kustom Stompa sounds like a lot of fun and I'm going to do it next chance I get. Mega and Meka dreads are interesting looking, I'm not a fan of the kill kannon but 2x rippa klaws on either of them could do some work. Grot Tanks and Grot Mega-Tanks getting buffs is a dream come true for me. They won't outperform Mek Gunz for shooting, but there might be some value in them now that they're more reliable. I'm also excited for Buzzgob to have rules that make sense and his new ability to buff dreads is exciting for me.
Oh yeah getting the Warboss on Warbike with a minor buff is kinda huge.
Grimskul wrote: Cool, good to see Nob Bikers actually be a thing again after how many editions.
They never went anywhere? Besides being overcosted so nobody took them, which it doesn't look like this changes while adding in the problem of moving them to an extremely competitive FO slot.
I meant competitively speaking. Not that they came back as a datasheet. Like you said, they basically paid the price of being at the top of the competitive meta for a while in 5th edition until Leafblower and Ward Grey Knights came in full force, since their 6th-7th ed renditions basically were garbage compared to regular bikers which repeated again in 8th.
i feel like both squig/gargsquig got unfairly nerfed. Theyre both REALLY expensive for what they do, the gargsquig basically lost a ton of bigshootas/2nd big gun and remained the same cost for some reason (gained a 3+ save but meh).
But everything else looks really good. Im excited to use grottanks again
Glad to see my forgeworld mekboss, warboss on bike, mega/mekadread (1 model I can use as either) and nob bikers are all still decent and usable...
I don’t own a supa kannon and I’m not sure it’s better then the gunwagon boomer.. while it’s only 5+ bs it has substantially more shots.
I never chased the units I couldn’t proxy as something else... so no squiggoths or killtanks or kustom stompas Or chinorks for me.
I did get kommando upgrade and half trakk mostly cause I can use them as kommandos and trukks.
So overall the only competitive unit in the fw book for us is the warboss on bike
Nob bikers are still over costed
Suppa kannon wagon is still worse the. Da boomer
Mekboss buzzgrob is nice for dread lists which still suck
And the mega dread is still worse then a deff dread or gorkanaut
The meka dread May have a use for kff bubble but unlikely but I’m still going to try to get mekadread w killakannon and kff to work
The warboss on bike is just a better version of wartrike...
MrMoustaffa wrote: Does anyone know some good tactics channels or blogs for advice on orks in 9th? Going to try and get back into my orks since our group needs more xenos players and am kind of stumped on where to start. Rather than spam the thread with a bunch of questions or read through 20 pages of the thread was hoping to find somewhere to at least learn the basics of 9th ed orks and go from there.
Auspex Tactics on youtube is my go to choice for 40k tactics, his voice is a little monotone but he's well worth following.
Guessing the nobs on warbikes will need a FAQ. In their new datasheet they cant have a pair of killsaws or any kombi weapon, but then in the pts section its listed as options.
Beardedragon wrote: I will definitly get kill tanks now that they are much cheaper.
Kustom stompa is also stock 800 points or so
Simply put, don't. They still are bad units, and one of the three tanks that originally existed has already been squatted.
The kill tanks are still bad at 275? I would assume they could work now.
For 275 points you get a tank that can potentially hit on 4s instead of 5s, have either 3D6str.10, -3 AP shots for 3 dmg each, or 30 str 6 -2ap shots for 1 dmg each (cant remember if either of those 2 gun weapons had an extra cost). Furthermore it also has a pretty decent melee value. and a 24 wounds + self repairs.
Would you mind explaining to me why its bad? because i dont think i understand whats so bad about it. It seems like it has quite a lot of firepower, and it even has melee to defend itself. Comparing it to a gorkanaut which is like 340 points, it seem to have more firepower at range, but less firepower at CC. How ever it IS a Lord of War.. Which i guess might make it terrible if I gotta waste CP on it. I guess that sort of makes it bad.
I at least will give it a try at a point, the model is pretty cool too. but then again, it will be a while before i get to a point where ill get one. Im in the process of converting Grot tanks to Mek Gunz, and i just bought some Grots for that, + i bought some Killa Kanz i gotta create and paint (doesnt matter if they are trash, the models are amazing).
About the kustom Stompa, im not interested in Stompas, not the normal ones, not the kustom ones. but i figured at 800 points, maybe someone who already owned a kustom stompa might be interested in it.
On a side note, how come the Kill tank is a Lord of War and has titanic keyword when its cheaper than a Gorkanaut, who does not have titanic keyword and is not a Lord of War? Thats odd.
Maybe the Gorkanaut/morkanaut will be cheaper in our Codex when it comes out.
I can't believe how completely the Warboss on Bike outclasses the Wartrike now. It's 10 points cheaper, gets Speedwaaagh! which is the main reason people brought a Wartrike, same number of attacks, +1 S, +1 Ld, only sacrificing one wound - which they can get back along with an extra attack and a 4++ thanks to having the Warboss keyword still.
Okay, so reading the points page in the FW book (on the video others linked earlier) from what i'm understanding with the blurb up the top the points is including the base wargear. So in the case of the grot tank that is 35 points for the grot tank and the big shoota but you can drop the big shoota for a skorcha at the cost 10 points extra correct?
Or is it 35 + 5 then becomes 35 + 10 when you give it a skorcha. I kind of want it to be the former, as saving points is always good.
Also, the stompa with 2 droppas feels time consuming but killy. The klaw is also good for heavy targets. +4 wounds causing d3 mortals in addition to the base damage of 9 (or it looks like a 9, could be 7.)
Madjob wrote: I can't believe how completely the Warboss on Bike outclasses the Wartrike now. It's 10 points cheaper, gets Speedwaaagh! which is the main reason people brought a Wartrike, same number of attacks, +1 S, +1 Ld, only sacrificing one wound - which they can get back along with an extra attack and a 4++ thanks to having the Warboss keyword still.
As long as it had the warboss keyword.. it as going to be better... the wartrike was never a great unit.. it was at best decent.
I’m unsure if we even need to give the warboss on bike a killaklaw relic as the killsaw is decent on its own.
Madjob wrote: I can't believe how completely the Warboss on Bike outclasses the Wartrike now. It's 10 points cheaper, gets Speedwaaagh! which is the main reason people brought a Wartrike, same number of attacks, +1 S, +1 Ld, only sacrificing one wound - which they can get back along with an extra attack and a 4++ thanks to having the Warboss keyword still.
As long as it had the warboss keyword.. it as going to be better... the wartrike was never a great unit.. it was at best decent.
I’m unsure if we even need to give the warboss on bike a killaklaw relic as the killsaw is decent on its own.
It's honesty better for the cost of a relic -- which we don't really mind at all. Our relics, with the SSAG gone, aren't top notch outside of Da Killa Klaw.
But it's now super, super easy to take two if you really want. Brutal but kunnin' + kill saw gives you 5 attacks, hitting on 3s, re-rolling all hits, and flat 3 damage at str 12. (so wounding on 2s / 3s).
I think double biker boss, or maybe even one of each if you wanna have one to help infantry charge, might have some play.
Okay, so for real. What do you Ladz think of the Kustom stompa with 2 lifta droppaz. Yeah it's 900pts. But slap more dakka on it and that's 8D3 shots that wound pretty damn easily and do d3+3 damage a piece. Maybe try to cast visions on it just for kicks.
Also, a new keyword has just come to my notice. Walkerz I wonder if we're going to get some actual dread based buff characters?
Sawbikerboss with the trait so he still has 3D on the charge and another with killaklaw. Give one Da Biggest Boss, you got two pretty mean green missiles.
Okay, so silly idea. A full unit of Killa kanz, give em sparkley bitz and throw in buzzgob for that nice +1 to hit. All of a sudden you have grotz that are hitting on 2s Naturally a mork or gorkanaut hitting on 3s is likely to more actual work but having grots being stupidly accurate just makes me smile.
cody.d. wrote: Okay, so silly idea. A full unit of Killa kanz, give em sparkley bitz and throw in buzzgob for that nice +1 to hit. All of a sudden you have grotz that are hitting on 2s Naturally a mork or gorkanaut hitting on 3s is likely to more actual work but having grots being stupidly accurate just makes me smile.
Let's hope they make Kanz exempt from not gaining klan kulturs or that the grot subkultur is what grotz get instead baseline in return for not gaining Klan kulurs. Would make taking grot units more relevant beyond just Mek Gunz.
Tomsug wrote: Cody.d - try Tin Heads culture or Grot mob + waaagh banner + warphead
You can buff them up pretty well both melee in shooting.
But still beerhammer option imho
Though the changes to caps means you still can't get them hitting better than a 4+ in melee. Still such a shame we lost the Kustom Ammo strat from Mek mobs. Could you imagine the chaos a Naught firing twice with all it's guns and being far more accurate than any ork has a right to be.
Tomsug wrote: Cody.d - try Tin Heads culture or Grot mob + waaagh banner + warphead
You can buff them up pretty well both melee in shooting.
But still beerhammer option imho
Buzzgob is goff only and arguably better than tin 'eads.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Personally, I find the prospective of running a goff Morkanaut that hits on 3s and can be repaired for 4 wounds per turn quite scary. Not to mention that it is hitting on 2s in melee now and each six causes another three attacks.
So basically I envision the goff dread mob to look something like this:
Tomsug wrote: Cody.d - try Tin Heads culture or Grot mob + waaagh banner + warphead
You can buff them up pretty well both melee in shooting.
But still beerhammer option imho
Buzzgob is goff only and arguably better than tin 'eads.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Personally, I find the prospective of running a goff Morkanaut that hits on 3s and can be repaired for 4 wounds per turn quite scary. Not to mention that it is hitting on 2s in melee now and each six causes another three attacks.
So basically I envision the goff dread mob to look something like this:
Yeah im kinda disappointed there werent any kustom jobs added for the FW models, or blurps saying the Meka/Mega is a legal target for certain Kustom Jobs (pistons, sparkly, dirty come to mind)
Kinda the only one i can think of that would benefit from a current kustom job that would make sense. Obviously a squad of Grottanks with Sparklybitz would be awesome but...theyre a tank not a walker and thats a walker thing.
Beardedragon wrote: When exactly does the new forge world unit rules come in to action? from the moment the book is released?
Officially yes. But given that the rules/points have basically been let out into the wild, as long as the people you play with know it's legit/have seen it themselves, you can play with them now.
I think ill play with those rules once i have gotten hold of the book myself, i preordered it this Friday when it was possible to do so.
When will you guys be using the rules? already from today?
I wonder what plans they have for the gorkanaut and morkanaut given they are right now, both more expensive than a kill tank, who is a lord of war with titanic keyword.
I think ill play with those rules once i have gotten hold of the book myself, i preordered it this Friday when it was possible to do so.
When will you guys be using the rules? already from today?
I wonder what plans they have for the gorkanaut and morkanaut given they are right now, both more expensive than a kill tank, who is a lord of war with titanic keyword.
thats a bit odd.
I don't see them doing much besides maybe a slight points cut, possibly letting them Fall Back and Shoot+Charge like they used to rather than just falling back and charging, and adding Ramshackle in to their ruleset. Keep in mind that they are a lot more killy than a kill tank in CC, and that they have access to kustom jobs, the HS slot, and thus easy access to klan traits that give them a lot more versatility compared to kill tanks, which need to be taken in a SH detachment to gain klan traits.
I have question regarding Tellyport mega-blasta. It says:
"If a model suffers any unsaved wounds from this weapon
and is not slain, roll a D6 at the end of the phase. If the
result is greater than that model’s Wounds characteristic,
it is slain".
This rule refers to remaining Wounds or starting wounds?
I have question regarding Tellyport mega-blasta. It says:
"If a model suffers any unsaved wounds from this weapon
and is not slain, roll a D6 at the end of the phase. If the
result is greater than that model’s Wounds characteristic,
it is slain".
This rule refers to remaining Wounds or starting wounds?
Starting wounds, since it's the characteristic on the datasheet, not wounds remaining. So anything that has a 6 or higher wounds characteristic would be immune to the effect.
addnid wrote: If you were to buy a mega dread, what weapons would you order ? 2 klaws ? 1 klaw 1 KIll Kanon ? Perhaps I should just buy all 4 arms and magnetize
Ideally you can just magnetize them because rules change over time, but given how expensive that is, atm I would say it's a toss-up between the klaws or saws. The main problem with the killkannon is that we can take it on a much more cost efficient and accurate platform with a Da Boomer Battlewagon, so it's sort of redundant on a Mega Dread. The Killkannon might be slightly better on a Meka-Dread since it has a base of BS4+, but it still has the same problems of it not doing much compared to other units. Mega Dreads have the ability to roll 3D6 and choose the highest, so they more or less have a slightly worse version of Ramming Speed built in, so I feel like you go all in for CC and tellyport them for a charge.
On the topic of killtanks, it's fairly tempting to take a trio of them in a heavy detachment. Yeah it's half your points (or a full army in a 1K game) but their toughness is okay, their damage is okay and they feel wonderfully cheap for what they give.
But what to run them as, usually i'd say freebootaz but sadly the stacking changes in 9th means that'll rarely be super useful unless you want to keep one or two tanks back and let the forward one try to proc the trait.
Feels like they have too many shots to make use of deffskulls properly, but the invul is nice, even though it's tempting to have a mek sitting nearby for various uses.
Hell even goffs wouldn't be that bad since they seem like they want to be in combat almost as much as they do shooting.
It's too hard to get visions off to make it worth it to my mind. Though you could use the warlord trait to proc their ram over and over again. Badmoons likewise offer some re-rolls and the +1 sv spell but it's not quite worth it.
Maybe axes so you can get cover and make it harder to be pinned down?
cody.d. wrote: On the topic of killtanks, it's fairly tempting to take a trio of them in a heavy detachment. Yeah it's half your points (or a full army in a 1K game) but their toughness is okay, their damage is okay and they feel wonderfully cheap for what they give.
It certainly gives a more concrete feeling of the oldschool "Iron Krumpany" of massed Ork armour better than we could before, given that gunwagons are a joke outside of the one with Da Boomer, and Kannonwagons only recently got updated/added in. The main issue is that which IG currently deal with in terms of tank heavy builds, which is the inability to effectively contest objectives.
addnid wrote: If you were to buy a mega dread, what weapons would you order ? 2 klaws ? 1 klaw 1 KIll Kanon ? Perhaps I should just buy all 4 arms and magnetize
Ideally you can just magnetize them because rules change over time, but given how expensive that is, atm I would say it's a toss-up between the klaws or saws. The main problem with the killkannon is that we can take it on a much more cost efficient and accurate platform with a Da Boomer Battlewagon, so it's sort of redundant on a Mega Dread. The Killkannon might be slightly better on a Meka-Dread since it has a base of BS4+, but it still has the same problems of it not doing much compared to other units. Mega Dreads have the ability to roll 3D6 and choose the highest, so they more or less have a slightly worse version of Ramming Speed built in, so I feel like you go all in for CC and tellyport them for a charge.
Thanks ! Yeah I’ll drop the kill kanon, so what is the difference between saws and klaws ? Klaws are 3+d3 dmg, strength X2 (6 attacks if taken in a pair) but what is the saw profile ?
addnid wrote: If you were to buy a mega dread, what weapons would you order ? 2 klaws ? 1 klaw 1 KIll Kanon ? Perhaps I should just buy all 4 arms and magnetize
Ideally you can just magnetize them because rules change over time, but given how expensive that is, atm I would say it's a toss-up between the klaws or saws. The main problem with the killkannon is that we can take it on a much more cost efficient and accurate platform with a Da Boomer Battlewagon, so it's sort of redundant on a Mega Dread. The Killkannon might be slightly better on a Meka-Dread since it has a base of BS4+, but it still has the same problems of it not doing much compared to other units. Mega Dreads have the ability to roll 3D6 and choose the highest, so they more or less have a slightly worse version of Ramming Speed built in, so I feel like you go all in for CC and tellyport them for a charge.
Thanks ! Yeah I’ll drop the kill kanon, so what is the difference between saws and klaws ? Klaws are 3+d3 dmg, strength X2 (6 attacks if taken in a pair) but what is the saw profile ?
Saws are str +1 so str 8, ap4, damage 2, each time it fights make 1 additional attack with the weapon. Pretty god damn awful. As with its name, its a Dread Killsaw, without the -1 to hit but its worse str than a Nob with a Killsaw. Id stick to the Klaw, there is no price difference. The 2 damage is just bad.
cody.d. wrote: Okay, so reading the points page in the FW book (on the video others linked earlier) from what i'm understanding with the blurb up the top the points is including the base wargear. So in the case of the grot tank that is 35 points for the grot tank and the big shoota but you can drop the big shoota for a skorcha at the cost 10 points extra correct?
Not quite. It shows CHEAPEST configuration which might not be same as datasheet has on default...
Basically you take the basic price and then check if any of your wargear are mentioned in the point cost.
Now I don't know if there's any where this comes into place in ork FW book but necron codex has couple units that has gauss cannon as default wargear with option to swap it to tesla weapon. In points gauss is meanwhile the one you pay for the price...
About the Kill tank being cheaper than a Gorkanaut or possibly morkanaut, i dont think ive ever seen a lord of war, being cheaper than non lord of war units. Maybe its normal, i only play orks, but ive never seen it myself, thats why it struck me as completely weird.
btw im assembling Killa kanz as we speak, which of the melee weapons should it give it? Kan klaw, Drilla, or Buzzsaw?
cody.d. wrote: Okay, so reading the points page in the FW book (on the video others linked earlier) from what i'm understanding with the blurb up the top the points is including the base wargear. So in the case of the grot tank that is 35 points for the grot tank and the big shoota but you can drop the big shoota for a skorcha at the cost 10 points extra correct?
Not quite. It shows CHEAPEST configuration which might not be same as datasheet has on default...
Basically you take the basic price and then check if any of your wargear are mentioned in the point cost.
Now I don't know if there's any where this comes into place in ork FW book but necron codex has couple units that has gauss cannon as default wargear with option to swap it to tesla weapon. In points gauss is meanwhile the one you pay for the price...
(Really wish datasheet had cheapest as default)
It gets a little odder as with the grot tank example the KMB and RL cost 10 which is what you'd normally pay for them, but the Skorcha is 10, 5 points cheaper than normal. And I think the mega tank has a different price for skorchas yet again. if the KMB and RL cost 5 for example (5 for the big shoota baked in which you then exchange) it'd make more sense to me.
Though i'd still say KMB may be the most tempting option for the grot tanks. But then they just feel like a kinda more mobile but weaker version of Mek Gunz.
addnid wrote: If you were to buy a mega dread, what weapons would you order ? 2 klaws ? 1 klaw 1 KIll Kanon ? Perhaps I should just buy all 4 arms and magnetize
Ideally you can just magnetize them because rules change over time, but given how expensive that is, atm I would say it's a toss-up between the klaws or saws. The main problem with the killkannon is that we can take it on a much more cost efficient and accurate platform with a Da Boomer Battlewagon, so it's sort of redundant on a Mega Dread. The Killkannon might be slightly better on a Meka-Dread since it has a base of BS4+, but it still has the same problems of it not doing much compared to other units. Mega Dreads have the ability to roll 3D6 and choose the highest, so they more or less have a slightly worse version of Ramming Speed built in, so I feel like you go all in for CC and tellyport them for a charge.
Thanks ! Yeah I’ll drop the kill kanon, so what is the difference between saws and klaws ? Klaws are 3+d3 dmg, strength X2 (6 attacks if taken in a pair) but what is the saw profile ?
Saws are str +1 so str 8, ap4, damage 2, each time it fights make 1 additional attack with the weapon. Pretty god damn awful. As with its name, its a Dread Killsaw, without the -1 to hit but its worse str than a Nob with a Killsaw. Id stick to the Klaw, there is no price difference. The 2 damage is just bad.
Thanks man ! I agree klaws all the way. I will just buy the full klaw option, and kitbash saw arms (and magnetize both arms)
How would you support them Tulun? Maybe throw a bunch of battle wagons alongside to flood the field with T8. A few mekboyz advancing alongside is almost mandatory unless you're running defskulls.
cody.d. wrote: How would you support them Tulun? Maybe throw a bunch of battle wagons alongside to flood the field with T8. A few mekboyz advancing alongside is almost mandatory unless you're running defskulls.
I'd have to run the numbers, but I'd probably have 1 KFF mek tripointed in the middle of them turn 1. they can't hide anyway, so put them forward unless you think they'll be charged T1 if you do, or you think they'll be alpha struck by eradicators or something.
1175 points is a lot of Ork stuff tbh. I'd definitely do Mech Orks, though. Field a wall of armour to overwhelm their anti tank.
Take some buggies, some trukk boys, a gun wagon maybe, drive it forward.
Re KFF: No, just make them death skulls and call it a day. Orks don't really have mobile KFFs. Frustrating as hell. Just try to keep them alive on the first turn. The KFF mek can go inside one at least.
Does anyone happen to have any Killtanks on them? Pondering between conversion and buying the real things. May proxy them till then and would really appreciate if someone could give me the measurements.
2x Gigashoota killtanks and 1 Bursta Kannon killtank is still cheaper than a stompa...
And realy all you lose is the S20 melee (oh nooo....)
thats...just hilarious
Huh....I didn't realize that was the case. That is....really sad.
The fact that the kustom stompa is priced at 800 doesn't bode well for our 9th ed codex Stompa having a reasonable price, so either we have to hope that GW somehow make it worth that much (HA!) or we'll be skipping it as a choice for yet another edition.
It makes me wonder if they meant 375 base for the killtank not 275.
275 feels really cheap. Even if its base gun is only 1d, its 30 freaking shots on a phat as hell tank.
375 would be too much imo given its current profile but its more in line with ork supers. Since currently all of our supers except the killtank are criminally overpriced.
Vineheart01 wrote: It makes me wonder if they meant 375 base for the killtank not 275.
275 feels really cheap. Even if its base gun is only 1d, its 30 freaking shots on a phat as hell tank.
375 would be too much imo given its current profile but its more in line with ork supers. Since currently all of our supers except the killtank are criminally overpriced.
Very possible, I guess we'll see when they do the next round of chapter approved points changes at some time in the future if they alter the prices at all for the FW Ork stuff.
Hey just wanted to say thanks to all the folks that offered advice. Didn't have a chance to thank folks before the FW rumors dropped. Lots of good stuff to chew on while I wait for my models to come in.
What's people's thoughts on the supakannon battlewagon? Looks to be about 175 with BS4 and the same gun profile as before. Doubt it's as good as the boomer but doesn't seem too awful for the points like it was when it was 230 before.
Dendarien wrote: What base size is the biker boss supposed to be on these days?
Pretty much a termie base cut in half with a square ogre base stuck in between the halves.
I've literally built my own biker bases (of various sizes) this way. It's fairly easy but time-consuming, so only really recommended if you can't get hold of 'proper' bases at a reasonable price and do have spare round and square bases.
Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.
So i'm certainly getting at least one kill tank, because I always loved the model. May try and scratch build a few more cause that's also super fun. It's also worth noting that although it's a titanic it can't actually fall back and do anything can it? Passangers also can't shoot sadly. Still could be worth having a small unit of 12 boyz hanging on to capture objectives after the dakkatank charges into combat.
Whilst I appreciate that the stompa is still ludicrously overpriced, now we have some comparatively cheap lords of war, we could bring one in a superheavy detachment and get a kulture on it, and 2 other tanks to boot. Don't know if that makes it even remotely more tempting.
In other news, has a game against the new Necrons this weekend, and miraculously won!
Lists:
Spoiler:
Orks:
Evil Suns outrider detachment:
Deffkilla Wartrike, gorks roar, warlord, super cybork, follow me lads
4 mek guns - 1 bubblechukka, 3 smasha (I like bubblechukkas, they're fun!)
Wazbomm Blastajet, KFF
Necrons:
Overlord, res orb
Cryptek, veil of darknes, ability to resurrect D3 models to a unit each turn
Destroyer Lord dude (on 3 legs with much stabbiness)
2 x 6 scarabs
6 3-legged destroyers, 3 with 2-blades and 3 with 1-big-blades
Canoptec Resurrector, can't recall the exact name
Plasmazote? gave buffs to the destroyers.
The game:
We played mission 2, which was 4 objectives and long board edges. I took the secondary with the mission, to make his objective worth more to me, as well as fight in all table quarters and investigate sites, which I forgot to deploy well for so only got 3 points for all game. He took slay the warlord, awaken machines, and attrition.
I got turn 1, and promptly rammed half my army down his throat whilst the boys, buggies and mek guns took up positions on objectives. My opening salvo was quite effective, but was shut down quite effectively by we'll be back - that rule's pretty beastly now, the only real casualty was his resurrection dude, who died. I then charged, and overwatch from the warriors killed both my deffkoptas dead - damn 5+ overwatch stratagem! Then 1 unit of bikers, the nob bikers and the defkilla hit home and killed a lot of warriors. He rolled a 1 for morale, unfortunately.
His return was brutal. The warriors fell back, and the warriors with carbines behind stepped up and wiped out the bikers and all but 1 nob. The immortals were on the flanks and shot the boys and another unit of bikes. The bikes lost 2 models, and the boys were halved, then charged by destroyers and scarabs and wiped out. The overlord charged my wartrike, thinking to kill him off, and I popped overwatch for the heck of it. Double 6 with Gorks Roar in melta mode. Ouch. Converted one and got 4 damage, leaving him on 1 wound. He then fought me, and killed me, and I popped orks is never beaten and took him with me. Then he got back up. Luckily, he can only do that once per battle.
My turn 2, the boys and buggies move up the left flank, the bikers move to surround immortals. Kommandos appear and investigate sites. The mek guns focus on the destroyers if they can, and the bubblechukka uses the blast rule to throw 6 shots at the warriors with carbines, killing a few. Bikers fall back from scarabs and the boys and buggies and other bikers charge in.
His turn 2, the destroyers kill the kommandos, and the scarabs (2 left) are surrounded so I am locked in combat and my 20 boys, 2 buggies and 4 bikers are safe. Immortals charge them to try and kill them off, and get slapped to the ground for their troubles. Short range warrios use veil of darkness to appear behind my mek guns, and kill 2, denying them the charge they needed to get onto the objective. Scarabs get killed off and my army is loose for their third turn.
My turn 3, the lone biker who fell back moves onto an objective, staying as much out of sight as he can. boys move across the field towards the enemy. Buggies also move to intercept. The combined efforts of most of my army take out the last destroyers. mek guns slap some wounds off the destroyer lord, who drops to 1 wound. The buggy charges, but I forget to use ramming speed and roll a 3 for inflicting mortal wounds. Subsequent attacks fail to wound him, and his response takes 3 wounds off.
His Turn 3, the necron lord holds his home objective, and the scarabs hold the one on my right flank. The destroyer lord kills the buggy, and his warriors move onto my home objective, killing the last smasha gun. no-one can see my lone biker! Warriors move towards the fought-over objective on my right, which has bikers and buggies fighting scarabs and destroyer lord, and charge the bikes. destroyer kills the buggy, which explodes and kills the lord(woo!) who gets up (boo) with 1 wound (yay).
My turn 4, the other buggy rolls into the destroyer lord with ramming speed and kills him, fails to roll a 4+ for the scarabs though. bubblechukka knocks a couple more warriors over but they get back up. Boys charge the overlord and kill him successfully, claiming the objective. The last scarabs die but there are warriors there so no objective for me.
His turn 4, bubbechukka dies to warriors who now regret being so far from everyone else. Warriors kill another biker on my right. his cryptek moves to shoot my lone biker, but flubs his rolls!
My turn 5, lone biker smugly holds an objective on his own for the third turn in a row, netting me 7 points (2 extra for the mission secondary I took), boys get me 8, but alas he has 2 as well so no extra 5. my units fall back from the combat over the right hand objective and the wazbom tries & fails to finish off the warriors there.
His turn 5, he basically holds 2 objectives.
End of the game, I had netted 61 points to his 56. It was incredibly close, and exceedingly good fun.
Things I took away from necrons:
-They are very good at laying down -1 or -2AP firepower. Deffskull Boys can easily shut down their whole thing, as can KFF'd boys.
-Necron warriors suck in combat, so punching them is far better than trying to outshoot them.
-MSU is very bad vs necrons, as they roll WBB after the unit has finished its attacks - relying on multiple units to chip away at them is far inferior to wiping them out in one hit. If you wipe out the unit, they can't come back.
-Anything which kills without being an attack (EG exploding vehicles, charge-wounds, redder armour in a vehicle, etc) doesn't trigger WBB, so is a good way to reliably kill off a few models.
-Killing multi-wound models, you're best off killing 1 model if you can. Kill 2 and there's a good chance one is coming back, and half your firepower is wasted. Kill one, and they have to succeed on every dice to bring him back, so it's more reliable to kill multi-wound units either all at once or one at a time, nothing in between.
Units I would recommend against the Necrons:
-Boys, with KFF cover. Half their expense is in having decent AP, KFF ignores that pretty well. put anything with a 4+ in there and their AP is working again.
-Smasha Guns - the Destroyers have a stratagem to give -1 to wound against them, which puts S4 guns woundng on 6's, which is bad news. Smasha guns roll to wound in their own way, so don't care. Also 3 wounds and D6 damage makes smashas ace at taking these buggers down.
Anything low-wound. Necrons have a serious penchant for high-damage guns, and most seem fixed - 3 damage, not D3, or 6 damage, not D6. Make them scrap their plans by bringing out the boys - tankbustas, lootas, boys, grots, and a few KFF to have a chance of surviving. I think that an Evil Suns footslogging horde, with bosses to give them advance and charge, will do pretty well. By turn 2, I'd expect to be pulling off some charges. Da Jump on turn 1 could help as well.
Told my rooommate about the new bikerboss stats and what i had in mind. He isnt looking forward to that lol...
1 boss on bike w/ Killaklaw
1 boss on bike w/ Killsaw + Brutal trait + Biggest Boss
Thats 2 fast as hell T7 7/8W models with 5/6 attacks that hit at S12 Ap3/4 flat3 damage on the charge. Killsaw hits on 3s, but rerolls failed hits at least. For 230pts lol.
Jidmah wrote: Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.
Please no...
After I finished my warkoptas, they are gone. Today I ordered 2 models 1/35 of KV-2 tank for killtank base.
cody.d. wrote: Okay, so reading the points page in the FW book (on the video others linked earlier) from what i'm understanding with the blurb up the top the points is including the base wargear. So in the case of the grot tank that is 35 points for the grot tank and the big shoota but you can drop the big shoota for a skorcha at the cost 10 points extra correct?
Not quite. It shows CHEAPEST configuration which might not be same as datasheet has on default...
Basically you take the basic price and then check if any of your wargear are mentioned in the point cost.
Now I don't know if there's any where this comes into place in ork FW book but necron codex has couple units that has gauss cannon as default wargear with option to swap it to tesla weapon. In points gauss is meanwhile the one you pay for the price...
(Really wish datasheet had cheapest as default)
It gets a little odder as with the grot tank example the KMB and RL cost 10 which is what you'd normally pay for them, but the Skorcha is 10, 5 points cheaper than normal. And I think the mega tank has a different price for skorchas yet again. if the KMB and RL cost 5 for example (5 for the big shoota baked in which you then exchange) it'd make more sense to me.
Though i'd still say KMB may be the most tempting option for the grot tanks. But then they just feel like a kinda more mobile but weaker version of Mek Gunz.
Oh that's because the cheapest option is more expensive than 0. Part of weapon cost is baked in.
Say you have unit of marines where each carries heavy bolter(10 pts) as bare minimum but can upgrade to lascannon(15). Point sheet thus would show lascannon as +5 with cost of heavy bolter baked in
9e you don't have model base cost and universal weapon cost list. Instead each datasheet has cost based on itself.
Jidmah wrote: Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.
Please no...
After I finished my warkoptas, they are gone. Today I ordered 2 models 1/35 of KV-2 tank for killtank base.
If you make models for originally resin models that's what you get.
Well, for 12 years I wasn't following wargaming scene.
I will use them as legends in friendly games. I will figure other approach for competitive play, if I desire some salt of course.
Jidmah wrote: Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.
Please no...
After I finished my warkoptas, they are gone. Today I ordered 2 models 1/35 of KV-2 tank for killtank base.
In all fairness, Chinorks haven't had an official model sold in nearly 10 years. It was very likely to be cut.
Kill tanks probably won't be cut, but 275 almost seems... off? Or are Orks just not used to having nice things?
Vineheart01 wrote:
Told my rooommate about the new bikerboss stats and what i had in mind. He isnt looking forward to that lol...
1 boss on bike w/ Killaklaw
1 boss on bike w/ Killsaw + Brutal trait + Biggest Boss
Thats 2 fast as hell T7 7/8W models with 5/6 attacks that hit at S12 Ap3/4 flat3 damage on the charge. Killsaw hits on 3s, but rerolls failed hits at least. For 230pts lol.
Oh i am gonna have fun with this...
I was thinking of doing the same next game I play, although I might not because it might be too mean. I'd give the Kill saw guy the flat 3, to have 2 units with it. I think that's better than having 1 flat four.
Plus, the Kill saw guy hits on 3s, so re-rolling all hits is actually very clutch.
Jidmah wrote: Agree, I full expect kill tanks to be nerfed back into the ground just like last time they started becoming popular. Make sure that anything you build can be re-used as kannonwagon or da boomer to prevent having dead models.
Please no...
After I finished my warkoptas, they are gone. Today I ordered 2 models 1/35 of KV-2 tank for killtank base.
In all fairness, Chinorks haven't had an official model sold in nearly 10 years. It was very likely to be cut.
Kill tanks probably won't be cut, but 275 almost seems... off? Or are Orks just not used to having nice things?
Vineheart01 wrote:
Told my rooommate about the new bikerboss stats and what i had in mind. He isnt looking forward to that lol...
1 boss on bike w/ Killaklaw
1 boss on bike w/ Killsaw + Brutal trait + Biggest Boss
Thats 2 fast as hell T7 7/8W models with 5/6 attacks that hit at S12 Ap3/4 flat3 damage on the charge. Killsaw hits on 3s, but rerolls failed hits at least. For 230pts lol.
Oh i am gonna have fun with this...
I was thinking of doing the same next game I play, although I might not because it might be too mean. I'd give the Kill saw guy the flat 3, to have 2 units with it. I think that's better than having 1 flat four.
Plus, the Kill saw guy hits on 3s, so re-rolling all hits is actually very clutch.
Edit: oops, yo're doing that.
its off when you think about the fact that its cheaper than a gorkanaut/morkanaut and is titanic + a lord of war when neither gork nor morkanauts are.
We have a unit with more hp and more/at least equal to firepower at range, that is cheaper.
weird. It will either be corrected in the codex when ever that happens or im guessing there are price reductions incomming for the gork/morkanauts.
tulun wrote: I bet the Mork / Gork get the monolith treatment.
They are freaking bigger than a Kill Tank.
LoW just need to be not so.. inaccessible.
They'd need a significant rework of their stats and rules though. I can accept a LoW naut IF it has the profile of a proper LoW.
AKA +40-50%W, +1save and 3x firepower. Then I could justify the LoW role and a fair price hike (400-450?).
At the moment nauts aren't particulary different than Stormravens or Impulsors (basically they have CC punch but less firepower, movement characteristic and transport capacity) which aren't LoW.
So I just assembled some Killa kanz.. my first, Killa Kanz actually.
What the heck is wrong with the Killa Kanz loadout? You dont even get a ranged weapon of every kind to suppliment your army properly.
Why would i want 3 killa kanz with 3 different ranged loadouts? So weird.
And the CC weapons are also a bit weird.
What you get are:
1x Drilla
2x Buzzsaws
1x Klaw
As well as:
1x Rokkit launcher
1x Scorcha
1x Big Shoota
1x Grotzooka.
They could at least add 3 of each ranged weapons type, so you have a total of 3 rokkits or total of 3 big shootas.
Luckily i had the "start collecting orks" and i hadnt used the rokkit launchers from my Deff Dread. although they dont come with an arm so 2 of my Killa kanz will look a little weird.. sadly i have used the Big Shootas in a conversion from the Deff dread, and i did intend to have a loadout of 3 big shoota killa kanz but.. i cant properly do that now.
The Killa Kanz themselves look amazing, but this kinda ruins it. Id have to buy a total of 9 killa kanz, just to load 3 killa kanz with Rokkits, unless im being clever.
Such greed. the nerve.
Guess that was a small rant. What do you guys usually do to get items for Killa Kanz? Also Deff Dread spare parts?
You get more boxes of killa kanz. Also, magnetize! Can't stress this enough, in every edition another load-out becomes the best one, and kanz are extremely easy to to magnetize.
Vineheart01 wrote: Not to mention deffdreads come with plenty of extra rokkits, they arent arms (more like turrets that socket into the arm slot) but they work fine.
yea they have that tiny.. round thing that can fit in a Killa kan slot and they do work more like a mini turret instead of an arm.
thats exactly what im doing with the 2 extra Rokkit launchers i have from the Deff Dread. Its usable, but it doesnt look as good as the rocket arm the killa kan has...
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Jidmah wrote: You get more boxes of killa kanz. Also, magnetize! Can't stress this enough, in every edition another load-out becomes the best one, and kanz are extremely easy to to magnetize.
I am going to magnetize, and i wanted to have Big Shootas and Rokkit launchers (two different loadouts) sadly im out of big shootas. ill have to wait till i get another deff dread to do that :/
Also that tiny hole in the round ball thing that joins up with the body, is that where the magnet is supposed to go?
Yeah, just cut the ball joint in half and glue it to one magnet, and then slot another one into the body.
Just make sure all your magnets on ALL your walkers are facing the same way, than you can switch arms between dreads and kanz - they use the same bits.
cody.d. wrote: How would you support them Tulun? Maybe throw a bunch of battle wagons alongside to flood the field with T8. A few mekboyz advancing alongside is almost mandatory unless you're running defskulls.
I'd have to run the numbers, but I'd probably have 1 KFF mek tripointed in the middle of them turn 1. they can't hide anyway, so put them forward unless you think they'll be charged T1 if you do, or you think they'll be alpha struck by eradicators or something.
1175 points is a lot of Ork stuff tbh. I'd definitely do Mech Orks, though. Field a wall of armour to overwhelm their anti tank.
Take some buggies, some trukk boys, a gun wagon maybe, drive it forward.
Re KFF: No, just make them death skulls and call it a day. Orks don't really have mobile KFFs. Frustrating as hell. Just try to keep them alive on the first turn. The KFF mek can go inside one at least.
. The only mobile kffs are mekadread, wazbom jet, and morkanaut. The meka dread i need to see loadout and price.
Honestly if you use the mounts and weapons that the dread has you don't even need to magnatise. I always found they sit in place fairly well. Just need to make yourself up some grotzookas.
@Gungo,
Sadly the more mobile versions aren't able to hide like a foot mek can. Dearly wish we had wartrike mek kinda deal. That would be pretty solid.
Jidmah wrote: Yeah, just cut the ball joint in half and glue it to one magnet, and then slot another one into the body.
Just make sure all your magnets on ALL your walkers are facing the same way, than you can switch arms between dreads and kanz - they use the same bits.
Yea, i have my 4 grot tanks still and their magnets arent turning the same way. Meaning i need to find a specific weapon for each little tank lol which fits it.. lesson learned.
I was thinking of trying out gluing magnet paper (that iron ish paper) on to the model itself, and then putting a magnet on the weapon. that way it shouldnt matter. Dunno if it will be good but ill give it a try.
The Killa Kan is an amazing model, and you can give them great poses because of their ball joints.
Cant wait till the codex comes out to see what they have in store for those with "Walkers" keyword.
On the topic of the walkers keyword I do find it odd that in the Buzzgob datasheet they listed many of the walkers but didn't simply use "GOFF WALKERZ" instead. Maybe because that would allow him to affect stompas? But lets be honest. That'd be fairly fun, maaaaybe pushing the stompa into usable.
cody.d. wrote: On the topic of the walkers keyword I do find it odd that in the Buzzgob datasheet they listed many of the walkers but didn't simply use "GOFF WALKERZ" instead. Maybe because that would allow him to affect stompas? But lets be honest. That'd be fairly fun, maaaaybe pushing the stompa into usable.
The Stompa should have always had BS4+ at their price point and from how many in built targeting systems it should have. It's possible future proofing depending on whether or not they follow through with the WALKERZ keyword, alongside excluding Stompas from getting the benefit.
Maybe? I get what you mean but GW for a long time has been really attached to it's faction conventions. "Orks are BS2, Guard and tau are BS3, marines are BS4" Etc etc. Though they have been a little more varied of late, a few orks hitting on 3s and the like. Maybe we'll get lucky and GW will go, eh why not. I can see ork Meks putting the best targeting abilities in the stompa. The Mega Dreads have it don't they?
The best targeting abilities is a Grot with targeting squig....
Best ork shooting is usually just targeting squig..
Regardless stompas need a lot of work to be viable..
It needs void shields again.. grot riggers
It fails as a transport and needs a belly gun as standard.
It’s aura could at lest be something useful...
I don’t care if it’s bs5/bs4 but it needs a substantial more shots...
Or actual stomp attacks in addition to it's chain saw attacks. Personally I'd prefer if it was a viable melee asset with a little shooting rather than a shooting unit with useful melee.
Like, remove the sweep attacks and when engaged with non vehicles it can make X attacks at another profile. So it can still slam that chainsaw on one poor sod but on the way he trampled the targets mates.
Because, come on the stompa is just a gigantic ork boy. And any boy worth his salt knows it's the choppa that does the work.
As for void shields. Generally the ork ones were known to pop and not be brought back online like the imperial ones. How would they represent it? -1 to wound until the wound value hits a threshold?
there are literally dozens of ways they could make the stompa better. Theres a lot of aspects of the Stompa that simply isnt in the game, for instance its known to be fighting at seemingly full power until it finally just explodes...i.e. it shouldnt be degrading at all (yet it has 4 freaking brackets)
Vineheart01 wrote: there are literally dozens of ways they could make the stompa better. Theres a lot of aspects of the Stompa that simply isnt in the game, for instance its known to be fighting at seemingly full power until it finally just explodes...i.e. it shouldnt be degrading at all (yet it has 4 freaking brackets)
Yup. Pretty much. We could bring back power fields, give it a ramshackle variant rule where it works on a 5+, stomp attacks, a built-in tellyporta array, higher BS, no wound brackets. Honestly, I feel like GW don't know what to do it with because:
a) it was originally an Apocalypse only model which meant they were much less limited by the constraints of what was considered strong since Apoc was a system that was already a super beer pretzels game, so they struggle to transition it into the mainline game
b) it's not a SM unit
c) Not something people buy multiples of, unlike Knights, so they have little incentive to make it good competitively
Same, but I also have three naughts because I love them, one with a fun little bit of conversion. Hell tempted to buy a second for Kustom Mek conversions.
Oh, believe me I think there's definitely a market for it, considering Kromlech effectively just made their own MDF stompas. I meant that GW personally doesn't believe people will buy more than one because it's not an Imperial unit and there isn't a super-heavy framework they've created to push it.
I would love to see the stompa get more love in general.
Hey guys, going to start collecting my Orks soon and wanted some advice on what I'm thinking to start with first. Money is a little tight so im wanting to finalize my list before making purchases. Now I know the New Codex is coming out sooner rather than later so I'm trying to only purchase things that I think will be relevant moving forward as I will be slow growing it somewhat. What I'm thinking:
-Ghaz and Makari (*already own*)
-Weirdboy
-x60 Boys (using the Rokkit Boys for Tankbustas)
-x1 Painboy
Besides that I don't know what other stuff to add. I will be running Goffs so any other advice to help build a good army around them I'm all ears.
Beardedragon wrote: I was thinking of trying out gluing magnet paper (that iron ish paper) on to the model itself, and then putting a magnet on the weapon. that way it shouldnt matter. Dunno if it will be good but ill give it a try.
For walker arms, it's rather important to use powerful magnets, otherwise the arms will slowly slide down.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gmaleron wrote: Hey guys, going to start collecting my Orks soon and wanted some advice on what I'm thinking to start with first. Money is a little tight so im wanting to finalize my list before making purchases. Now I know the New Codex is coming out sooner rather than later so I'm trying to only purchase things that I think will be relevant moving forward as I will be slow growing it somewhat. What I'm thinking:
-Ghaz and Makari (*already own*)
-Weirdboy
-x60 Boys (using the Rokkit Boys for Tankbustas)
-x1 Painboy
Besides that I don't know what other stuff to add. I will be running Goffs so any other advice to help build a good army around them I'm all ears.
Can't go wrong with that, just make sure to buy a plastic shamans from AoS like the weird nob instead of the weird boy - it's a fincast model that is extremely likely to be heavily damaged. Or try to get a metal one from ebay, but they have gotten quite expensive recently.
Other than that, the best bets would probably be MANz or mek guns, just make sure to magnetize the guns on the later - there are some great tutorials for that if you look for them.
I was thinking of trying out gluing magnet paper (that iron ish paper) on to the model itself, and then putting a magnet on the weapon. that way it shouldnt matter. Dunno if it will be good but ill give it a try.
For walkers 3mm x 2mm N52 is the bare minimum, probably 5mm x 2mm is the best size. Don't try with smaller magnets, only big shootas and skorchas could be ok (mine have 2mm x 1mm and work barely fine for dreads).
With the Walkerz keyword, I wonder if we might get a "Dradmob" detachment in our next codex which only allows units with >MEK< and >WALKERZ<, which would just have HQ, Elites, Heavy Support and Lord of War slots. I'd play it!
And with no faction specific detachments in new codexes it's pretty safe to say nothing in orks either. Unless ork codex is like 2 years from now
I wonder if it might be a faction then, perhaps with a rule stating that "if this army contains only models with MEK and WALKERZ keywords, refund the CP spent on detachments". It would be good to get some love for the walkers!
3 CP aren't the problem. The problem is that you still need infantry to score objectives and perform action, so a pure dreadmob is unlikely to be a great choice.
Lists looking like current buggy lists except with more walkers? That is something I can see working.
So my local winter league just started and I decided to stop being a hipster and change ships to Deathskulls. The rules say that we play the first 3 games with fixed lists and after that can do some altering. I kinda felt that the units I've been working on lately haven't been synergizing very well with Evils Sunz and I haven't had a chance to buy the second or third Bonebreaka I intended. I'll have to get used to not advancing all the time with everything and remembering all those re-rolls that put me off for all this time. My list is as follows:
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP]
Clan Kultur / Specialist Mobs: Deathskulls
Detachment CP
+ HQ [10 PL, -1CP, 220pts] +
Big Mek in Mega Armour [6 PL, 130pts]: Da Kleverest Boss [-1CP], Follow Me, Ladz! [1CP], Grot Oiler [5pts], Kombi-Rokkit [10pts], Kustom Force Field [20pts], Power Klaw [10pts], Warlord
Warboss [4 PL, -1CP, 90pts]: Da Biggest Boss [-1CP], Da Killa Klaw, Kombi-Rokkit [10pts], Power Klaw [10pts]
General idea is to put MANZ+MegaMek into the Battlewagon (grot-oiler to die in breakout), and regular Nobs + Warboss into a more easily hideable Trukk (or even on foot in certain deployments). Regular boyz are there to deploy scramblers and screen, maybe kill some soft deepstrikers. The rest I think are pretty self-explanatory. I changed the Snazzwagon into a KBB due to feedback.
Our meta is casual competitive, which means long-time players using non-optimised lists. My first pair is this mixed-dynasty Necrons list:
While the list doesn't seem very hard, it has many units (and potential synergies) that I'm not familiar with at all. I'm not sure how to prioritize my targets. Is that flyer a potential T1 threat, as many fliers seem to be? Scarabs have ObSec and 36 wounds, but are surprisingly easy to beat with model count. Do they have some nasty trick I should be aware of? Warriors and Lychguard both I have faced before, same with Immortals. I don't think my list is particularly weak against them. About Destoyers I have no countable information at all. Are they the long-range AT his list seems to otherwise lack?
The Deceiver seems oddly ... bad? compared to the other C'Tan, so I'm a little confused if I should go after it in the beginning. It will munch through MANZ easily, but has weirdly low offensive output against most other targets. I was thinking about committing the Scrapjets to take it out T1 (rokkits, chargeMW, melee) but that would consume both MoreDakka and Ramming speed to succeed reliably. Seems like a big investment to me.
How would you approach facing against this kind of list? We are playing Sweep&Clear and I think it would be a good idea to take Engage, Scramblers and Vital Ground as secondaries. He doesn't seem to have enough ranged AT to max Bring it Down early and even though I have 4 characters I think I can count on losing max 2-3. I wonder if should start by concentrating fire on one of the scarab blobs and maybe the destroyers and avoid his troops until I can flood them in melee with local superiority. If he loses either of the scarab units, I can easily outnumber the other with either the Boyz or 2xKommandos and it becomes just an expensive blob. I'm down with scaringly few command points myself, so I fear his stratagems will play a bigger role than I can count beforehands.
Jidmah wrote: Can't go wrong with that, just make sure to buy a plastic shamans from AoS like the weird nob instead of the weird boy - it's a fincast model that is extremely likely to be heavily damaged. Or try to get a metal one from ebay, but they have gotten quite expensive recently.
Other than that, the best bets would probably be MANz or mek guns, just make sure to magnetize the guns on the later - there are some great tutorials for that if you look for them.
I'm not so sure about Mek Guns, I know they are a great unit but the price tag on the makes me hesitate getting any especially in high enough numbers
True, you said were on a budget and the mek guns are very much the opposite of that.
Do you know if you want to go more vehicle heavy or do you prefer infantry? Orks don't work well if you mix these two styles, so any suggestions would depend on which style you prefer.
Jidmah wrote: True, you said were on a budget and the mek guns are very much the opposite of that.
Do you know if you want to go more vehicle heavy or do you prefer infantry? Orks don't work well if you mix these two styles, so any suggestions would depend on which style you prefer.
My Krieg are very tank heavy so I'm wanting to do an infantry heavy list to change things up. At the same time though having some mechanized elements such as meganobz in bone breaker's would be an eventual thing I'd like to do
"Some mechanized elements" doesn't work for orks though. You either bring infantry in masses, or you bring vehicles in masses. If you mix the two, your opponent's guns will be too efficient at killing your army and you will end up losing most of your units too quickly. A single bonebreaker will just end up destroyed by your opponent's anti-tank turn one and your MANz need to go on by foot. If you want a bonebreaker with MANz to be part of your army, you need to provide more targets, like trukks, planes, buggies or walkers that draw fire from your 300+ point investment. That's why I said you need to decide - the single battlewagon/trukk in an infantry list is an extremely common mistake for new players to make, frankly because GW keeps displaying them to be used that way.
You can get away with fielding a few vehicles in an infantry list when you put them into the tellyporta, dreads or a gorkanaut are good examples of this.
The reason I suggested MANz and mek guns was because you can put them in any kind of list - despite being weak to anti-tank guns they are durable enough per points spent to not care.
For an infantry list, your next buys would be two more units of boyz (and thus more tankbustas) and maybe convert some kommandoz, they are fairly essential to infantry strategy right now.
Ill be using a large magnet at your behest. Thank you.
Also my Big Trakk, warboss on warbike and the Supa Kannon arrived today.
Holy F the supa kannon is massive? its as long as a penises. its super long considering its meant for a figure game, which is both awesome and.. difficult. Im not sure how im meant to hide my Supa kannon, i mean what is it, like at least 10 centimeters long on its own? then standing on a Big Trakk makes it kind of impossible to hide, meaning i will be shot at from all angles. Im guessing, if they can see the top of the gun, they can hit my unit? I kinda wished there would be updated line of sight rules, like you must see 50% of a body or 25% or something. Its because of things like this, that my Grot tanks Kommanda dont have a cute little banner on top, because it will actively hinder me in battle.
Anyway i havent assembled it yet. i just saw a massivel barrel and though: oh lord, that is long.
Ill be using a large magnet at your behest. Thank you.
Also my Big Trakk, warboss on warbike and the Supa Kannon arrived today.
Holy F the supa kannon is massive? its longer than some peoples erected penises. its super long considering its meant for a figure game. Im not sure how im meant to hide my Supa kannon, i mean what is it, like 10 centimeters long on its own? then standing on a Big Trakk makes it kind of impossible to hide. It will be shot at from all angles as im guessing, they can see the top of the gun, they can hit my unit?
Anyway i havent assembled it yet. i just saw a massivel barrel and though: oh lord, that is long.
Back in the day it was the Orky equivalent of the Earth Shaker Cannon from the Basilisk. It was str 9 ap 3 primary weapon large blast. It wasnt meant to be a small model, its and Ork weapon, bigger is better. I wouldnt use the Supa Kannon on the Big Trakk but instead the Kannonwagon for the BS4.
Ill be using a large magnet at your behest. Thank you.
Also my Big Trakk, warboss on warbike and the Supa Kannon arrived today.
Holy F the supa kannon is massive? its longer than some peoples erected penises. its super long considering its meant for a figure game. Im not sure how im meant to hide my Supa kannon, i mean what is it, like 10 centimeters long on its own? then standing on a Big Trakk makes it kind of impossible to hide. It will be shot at from all angles as im guessing, they can see the top of the gun, they can hit my unit?
Anyway i havent assembled it yet. i just saw a massivel barrel and though: oh lord, that is long.
Back in the day it was the Orky equivalent of the Earth Shaker Cannon from the Basilisk. It was str 9 ap 3 primary weapon large blast. It wasnt meant to be a small model, its and Ork weapon, bigger is better. I wouldnt use the Supa Kannon on the Big Trakk but instead the Kannonwagon for the BS4.
Oh yea totally but i dont own any battlewagons yet sadly. I saw the new Kannonwagon profile and thought: nice.
So yea ill be putting it on that when the time comes.
Regarding playing against the necron player, his list is designed to hold objectives and control the middle of the board. New necrons are durable, 20 warriors is hard to shift. His list is close combat oriented. He is not trying to take out your vehicles, he will probably go after your troops and then just out score you.
russellmoo wrote: Regarding playing against the necron player, his list is designed to hold objectives and control the middle of the board. New necrons are durable, 20 warriors is hard to shift. His list is close combat oriented. He is not trying to take out your vehicles, he will probably go after your troops and then just out score you.
I think thatthis is where my list worked well. Turn 1 I formed a wall in front of him, which then held him back for a turn whilst I grabbed objectives. From there, it made it a bit easier for me to control the board, claiming objectives and denying him from taking any. Next time I may drop the mek guns and take more boys, for more board control. I may also sacrifice the faster movement for deffskull rerolls and invulns. S5 AP-2 shooting is really beastly when your army is T5 with 4+ saves, so more boys - more redundancy for his guns!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just had a bit of a random thought for an army build, which is a bit of a rehash of the old battlewagon rush which used to work.
I'm considering 3 battlewagons, each with 2 units of 10 boys in them. The boys will have tankbusta bomms, a rokkit launcha and a kombi-rokkit nob in each.
The result is a trio of wagons, each of which puts out 4 rokkit shots, and potentially 2 tankbusta bomms if range suits, and contains 2 separate units of objective-secured troops. Potentially, one unit of boys could be swapped for something else. A more expensive option would be Tankbustas. 10 tankbustas and 10 boys means 12 rokkits per wagon, which is quite beastly.
Tankbustas aside, has anyone played around with fielding 2 units of 10 boys in wagons? The disadvantages I can see is that you can't squeeze a character in, and that boys rarely make a big impact when they arrive. My goal would be to drop them on objectives which need contesting, and screen them with the wagon from hostile fire, then pick them back up if the threat has been eliminated and the wagon can hold the objective instead. Or, drop one unit off on an objective and throw the other unit + wagon at the enemy to give them a couple of turns of holding it. Midfield objectives can be grabbed on turn 1 if you disembark 1 unit 3" forward and then move 5" + D6", you've a good chance of getting within 3" of an objective with the boys. Alternatively, contest objective with the wagon on turn 1 then drop the boys off turn 2 before rolling on.
I want to make my wagons more useful, I have too many to leave them sat on the shelf!
Jidmah wrote: "Some mechanized elements" doesn't work for orks though. You either bring infantry in masses, or you bring vehicles in masses.
If you mix the two, your opponent's guns will be too efficient at killing your army and you will end up losing most of your units too quickly. A single bonebreaker will just end up destroyed by your opponent's anti-tank turn one and your MANz need to go on by foot. If you want a bonebreaker with MANz to be part of your army, you need to provide more targets, like trukks, planes, buggies or walkers that draw fire from your 300+ point investment.
That's why I said you need to decide - the single battlewagon/trukk in an infantry list is an extremely common mistake for new players to make, frankly because GW keeps displaying them to be used that way.
You can get away with fielding a few vehicles in an infantry list when you put them into the tellyporta, dreads or a gorkanaut are good examples of this.
The reason I suggested MANz and mek guns was because you can put them in any kind of list - despite being weak to anti-tank guns they are durable enough per points spent to not care.
For an infantry list, your next buys would be two more units of boyz (and thus more tankbustas) and maybe convert some kommandoz, they are fairly essential to infantry strategy right now.
Ahh got you, well I am eventually planning on picking up five thousand points of them to match my Krieg initially I'll start with an infantry list and then expand to different Army builds from there
Some bloke - I take 10 naked boyz with pure choppas incl choppa nob to be super cheap. And than megamek with KFF, or warboss, or Kaptin Balrduk.
The idea behind is simple. Boyz dies. They rarely do some damages. Rockets, or even kombi rockets are super expensive. Their ROI is terribel in my experience. Mostly shoot ones and hits nothing.
On other hand boosted megamek and boosted warboss hits like a hell and can fight twice or even three times a round. And are hard to kill. And easy to hide. And kaptin Baldruk is durable super plasma dude for cheap money.
So I push transports forward, opponent destroy one of them at least, than I use Emergency disembark a put characters 6” away in cover, kill some of my cheap boyz and use them to obsec and cover the characters. They come to close combat, so no chance to shoot some rockets more time.
So this is a scenario how to use transports to conquer the objectives.
Can be done with 3-5 MANz instead of characters.
I have a problem with trukks or wagons with shooting crew. Shooting vehicles like scrapjets or gunwagons do the job better for less money. And you can 't use strategems etc on shooting bustas in trukk. Plus you offer opponents both types of target and makes him effective.
I think, now the role of infantry in transport is to be transported to the objective and control him = not die and hold in CC.
But if your plan isnt to expect your boyz to kill anything, why not use Grots instead?
Gives you more room for expensive toys.
I dont use boyz with the intention of them dying, i mean i know they will but i also expect them to actually kill something before it happens. And for the most part, they do.
Beardragon - good point, bad explanation on my side, sorry....
I do expect to kill something with the boyz. My boyz kill opponents GEQ infantry used to capture the objective. So they competeing with the same rank.
I do not expect boyz kills anything tough like elite infantry, or vehicles.
Plus the grots die even much much faster and do not have the obsec via deathskulls. T4 6++ holds more than T2 6+....
Sometimes I give the boy nob a killsaw or PK. This is the only weapon, that do something... sometimes. If I have some points left, this is the way. And of course tankbusta bomb, it ' a for free, so why not give it a try...
Jidmah wrote: Can't go wrong with that, just make sure to buy a plastic shamans from AoS like the weird nob instead of the weird boy - it's a fincast model that is extremely likely to be heavily damaged. Or try to get a metal one from ebay, but they have gotten quite expensive recently.
Other than that, the best bets would probably be MANz or mek guns, just make sure to magnetize the guns on the later - there are some great tutorials for that if you look for them.
I'm not so sure about Mek Guns, I know they are a great unit but the price tag on the makes me hesitate getting any especially in high enough numbers
Have you considered scratch building? Or kit bashing? One Mek Gun + one Trukk = four Mek Gun.
Jidmah wrote: Can't go wrong with that, just make sure to buy a plastic shamans from AoS like the weird nob instead of the weird boy - it's a fincast model that is extremely likely to be heavily damaged. Or try to get a metal one from ebay, but they have gotten quite expensive recently.
Other than that, the best bets would probably be MANz or mek guns, just make sure to magnetize the guns on the later - there are some great tutorials for that if you look for them.
I'm not so sure about Mek Guns, I know they are a great unit but the price tag on the makes me hesitate getting any especially in high enough numbers
Have you considered scratch building? Or kit bashing? One Mek Gun + one Trukk = four Mek Gun.
I've actually never heard of that before I'll have to take a look, one of the reasons I wanted to Orks in the first place is to do some whacky stuff
Well known trukk&mekgun combo gives you 4x something like a mek gun, but honestly, most of such conversions looks gakky, sorry guys. And you need 4 same tips to spam one type of mekgun, so biggest problem not solved.
My personal plan for mek gun kitbashing is spark plug, spare tracks from scrapjets, chasis from ps card and grizzles, tips from bits, etc. For example smashagun tip could be done from cards, rivets and wire.
Or use some kids carroon style tanks like a chasis.
Tomsug wrote: Well known trukk&mekgun combo gives you 4x something like a mek gun, but honestly, most of such conversions looks gakky, sorry guys. And you need 4 same tips to spam one type of mekgun, so biggest problem not solved.
My personal plan for mek gun kitbashing is spark plug, spare tracks from scrapjets, chasis from ps card and grizzles, tips from bits, etc. For example smashagun tip could be done from cards, rivets and wire.
Or use some kids carroon style tanks like a chasis.
You could get around this with Ork Logic of "they believe this is what it does" also in my experience as long as you say everything is the same gun there is zero issues
Well, I believe it is fine, to have a good looking model. If you have 6 same models on the list, it' s fine to have 6 models looking like a same type of weapon on the table. “Anything could be a smashagun” is pretty common comment in my area and it is not a nice comment. So be creative, but careful.
While the list doesn't seem very hard, it has many units (and potential synergies) that I'm not familiar with at all. I'm not sure how to prioritize my targets. Is that flyer a potential T1 threat, as many fliers seem to be? Scarabs have ObSec and 36 wounds, but are surprisingly easy to beat with model count. Do they have some nasty trick I should be aware of? Warriors and Lychguard both I have faced before, same with Immortals. I don't think my list is particularly weak against them. About Destoyers I have no countable information at all. Are they the long-range AT his list seems to otherwise lack?
Okay from necron POV.
a) that flier can be used in multiple ways but T1 charge if he goes first? Nope not really. Likely unit inside is lychguard. 3"+7"+2d6" is absolutely max he can reach. Albeit he can get reroll charge. Another potential use is get 20 warriors with 12" assault 2 S5 -2 weapons into range. Either those and lychguard with veil or reverse. He's more of T1 charge if you approach first. Or he can do T2 charge from inside. OR there's another way. Pay attention when he declares reserves. If warriors or lychguard go to strategic reserve he can pull them from reserves within 3" of night scythe regardless of how close your units are! If he is on board with flyer and can move he can get those lychguard within 1.1" of you out of reserves! Or if he's worried about your shooting and/or minimum move(if you move close in manouvering flyer into good spot can be hard as I found today vs Bile's creations) he can spend 1 more CP to put whole flyer into reserve(or move offboard T1 or use deceiver's ability to put it to reserve. There's some arguments does it cost CP to put to reserve like that) and then come out of reserve 9" from enemy and put lychguard/warriors up to 3" from flyer with 6" charge to you! Keep in mind of that. If he goes for this(total CP cost 4. 2 for putting lychguard to reserve, 1 to put night scythe, 1 for the stratagem to put lychguard via flyer) there's literally no way to prevent him from getting 6" charge. All you can do is use screens to guard most vital units or be inside transport and accept you will lose the transport. You can't screen entire board there's nowhere to deepstrike.
And that unit will strike 3-5(depending on does he pay 0-2 CP and for 1 attack needs noble nearby) attacks at S7 or S8(depending on does he use stratagem for 1CP) at -5(if charged/charging etc) damage flat 2. In otherwords they mince anything you have if they charge. Good news is they are just T5 2 wounds 3+ no invulnerable save, no -1 to hit etc so it's not super durable. Just keep in mind they charge, they kill anything they touch from you. So don't let him get that 6" charge to your key unit too easily!
Deceiver can hurt single models so tanks, characters etc real hard and keep in mind you can cause only 3 wounds per phase. Keep ramming speed stratagem in mind and worth shooting some random shots. Even 1 wound to negate living metal's effect can be worth it.
Destroyers are very good tank busters if they get to combat with full strength. I have faced those myself and they make mincemeat by sheer number of attacks that basically ignores your armour(-3 or -4 depending on weapon) with flat2 or 3 damages with S8. Only issue they have is they are just 8" with no run and charge so getting into melee can be issue. Also no inv save so anything you have that shoots at S5+ multi damage threatens them seriously.
Swarms are very good objective holders and cheap wounds(cheaper than grots per wound and T3!). With 4 attack per base and 6 to hit is auto wound they can also do surprising dent. Also being obsec and 6" pregame move they will take control of objectives. With chronomancer deathwatch aggressors in tabletop titans failed to kill more than like 2 base...
And warriors will basically murder any light armoured infantry you have if you don't charge them first(12" range. Remember that). They will average about 3 meganobz if you let them fire with full strength. On charge they can also do surprising amount of damage. Ditto for immortals with 2 S4 -1 attack each unbuffed.
Your best news is his AT is super thin and it's all in melee so your transports basically get to do their job...So don't let his warriors fire at will. Try to keep lychguard and skorpek destroyers away from your key units. He'll probably try to get you to commit vs scarabs as anvil(don't laugh. They are cheap wounds. That's 36 wounds cheaper than grots would provide 36 wounds) and then lychguard and skorpeks come in and murder in melee.
Myself as necron I would prefer have SOMETHING to bust transports/gunboats from range. Giving enemy transports 100% efficiency sucks for my taste.
Were i to bet i would put odds in your favour though could be wrong. But as necron i would like to have way to bust battlewagon before charge phase of necron turn 2. Now i would be worried you get to do initial charges and cripple key necron threats.
I have never seen anyone use a flamer as a plasma gun.
Furthermore, basically none, except those who play orks, knows what the difference in appearence between a smasha gun and traktor kannon looks like so it doesnt matter.
Secondly, Orks delve in conversions more so than anyone, so its within the realm of the lore that your weapons dont 100% look like the items you get in your kits.
As long as it makes sense, it should be okay.
Thirdly, i have never had, even a single person telling me that what im using doesnt make sense. None even knows im using parts of the traktor kannon (the 3 arms pointing towards the shooting point) and parts of the smasha gun (those coils) and just use it generally as a smasha gun.
In fact i could use the kustom mega blasta and none would probably still take notice to it. none cares because its a friendly game where we just play and have fun. Once i forgot an ork boy at home and my opponent told me just to use one of my ammo runts.
Theres nothing wrong with him using different looking guns for his Mek Gunz as long as they look like they are salvaged, because thats what orks are all about. And then Mek Gunz, they are probably some of the most converted ork things out there, next to vehicles. and as long as it also makes sense and is balanced (eg. using a model that would somewhat have the same size as the original one to avoid cheating). Flame thrower to plasma gun? doesnt make sense, but if someone told me they did that, i wouldnt care. I just wanna play.
tulun wrote: I bet the Mork / Gork get the monolith treatment.
They are freaking bigger than a Kill Tank.
LoW just need to be not so.. inaccessible.
I seriously hope not. If they do, at least give them the Titanic keyword then.
I expect both of these things to happen.
18 wound dread is now not really that survivable, especially at the cost of 340 points. The Mork / Gork are basically the mini-Knights. Are they the same size as the Armiger?
I think they'll get substantial buffs in durability but become LoW (or if we're lucky, 24+ wounds and stay heavy...)
I personally liked the way the tractor kannon looked like so im using that for my Mek gun, even though i use it as a Smasha gun.
If you have a smasha gun, traktor kannon, and a kustom mega blasta model, you can still use them as smasha guns id say.
Hopefully you are okay with marine player using plasma gun, melta gun and flamer all as plasma gun as well.
I am totally ok with that... pay the points and as long as it's vaguely similar in model silhouette and weapon slot - ex. plasma/melta/flamer are all special weapons and all similarly sized ish - I am for whatever gets my opponent to try new builds that they may not have exactly the right models for. I totally let my friend stick his kytan ravager body on top of a landraider chassis to represent a lord of skulls.
tulun wrote: I bet the Mork / Gork get the monolith treatment.
They are freaking bigger than a Kill Tank.
LoW just need to be not so.. inaccessible.
I seriously hope not. If they do, at least give them the Titanic keyword then.
I expect both of these things to happen.
18 wound dread is now not really that survivable, especially at the cost of 340 points. The Mork / Gork are basically the mini-Knights. Are they the same size as the Armiger?
I think they'll get substantial buffs in durability but become LoW (or if we're lucky, 24+ wounds and stay heavy...)
I would be totally fine with that. But sadly have doubts it'll happen. Didn't they have 2 less "Structure points" back in 7th compared to the imperial knights?
On the other hand if they gave us a few naught specific stratagems and keep the Kustom jobs system with the codex I'll be a happy warboss.
Tomsug wrote: Beardragon - good point, bad explanation on my side, sorry....
I do expect to kill something with the boyz. My boyz kill opponents GEQ infantry used to capture the objective. So they competeing with the same rank.
I do not expect boyz kills anything tough like elite infantry, or vehicles.
Plus the grots die even much much faster and do not have the obsec via deathskulls. T4 6++ holds more than T2 6+....
Sometimes I give the boy nob a killsaw or PK. This is the only weapon, that do something... sometimes. If I have some points left, this is the way. And of course tankbusta bomb, it ' a for free, so why not give it a try...
I like to use 10 boyz with 4 double killsaw meganobs in battlewagon. The boyz are just there to deliver the bossnob with his double killsaw. 4 attacks with with deathskull reroll is pretty good against most elite infantry. The meganobz go for the heavier trargets.
Hey guys. For my first battle using killa kanz (4 of them) today would you suggest Sparkly bits for that extra killy at range, or Dirty gubbinz for that extra survivability?
Or perhabs even orkymatic pistons for movement?
All 4 runs around with rokkit launchers, 2 of them have klaws, 2 of them have buzzsaws
Vineheart01 wrote: nauts are considerably larger than armigers.
Theyre actually not much smaller than knights
Game-wise they compare best to LRBT, land raiders, defilers or greater deamons. I really don't think they have any business being lords of war, and it would ruin GW's vision of 2-3 of them being the center of an ork army that can be seen on multiple promotional pictures. They are already on the verge of being competitive, so I don't think they need any big changes.
If anything, get the Duty Eternal treatment (which perhaps is related to the Walkerz keyword we saw?) because a naut is still pretty easy to pop unless the 5++ luck is with you.
Otherwise, nauts are fine. Granted im not in a hyper competitive environment, just semi-competitive, and my morkanaut is usually the hero of my games lol
Beardedragon wrote: Hey guys. For my first battle using killa kanz (4 of them) today would you suggest Sparkly bits for that extra killy at range, or Dirty gubbinz for that extra survivability?
Or perhabs even orkymatic pistons for movement?
All 4 runs around with rokkit launchers, 2 of them have klaws, 2 of them have buzzsaws
Probably depends on how you plan to use them. What does the rest of your list look like?
If anything, get the Duty Eternal treatment (which perhaps is related to the Walkerz keyword we saw?) because a naut is still pretty easy to pop unless the 5++ luck is with you.
Otherwise, nauts are fine. Granted im not in a hyper competitive environment, just semi-competitive, and my morkanaut is usually the hero of my games lol
Based on what we see for Wraithseers, I don't think Ork vehicles will get -1 damage.
Ramshackle, though, seems likely for all Ork vehicles, based on the FW index.
Vineheart01 wrote: nauts are considerably larger than armigers.
Theyre actually not much smaller than knights
Game-wise they compare best to LRBT, land raiders, defilers or greater deamons. I really don't think they have any business being lords of war, and it would ruin GW's vision of 2-3 of them being the center of an ork army that can be seen on multiple promotional pictures. They are already on the verge of being competitive, so I don't think they need any big changes.
They easily were until the specialist detachment changes. So much accurate dakka.
Beardedragon wrote: Hey guys. For my first battle using killa kanz (4 of them) today would you suggest Sparkly bits for that extra killy at range, or Dirty gubbinz for that extra survivability?
Or perhabs even orkymatic pistons for movement?
All 4 runs around with rokkit launchers, 2 of them have klaws, 2 of them have buzzsaws
Probably depends on how you plan to use them. What does the rest of your list look like?
Hey man, just had my battle. It was against a space marine player (dunno what chapter, he was black and white) and i won. God what an important victory, that marks 3 in a row. 2 against a death guard player and once against a space marine boy.
My 2000 point army consists of:
Spoiler:
Goff detatchment:
Ghaz the man
Warboss (warlord) with kombi flamer and squig. Uses da Killa Klaw and brutal but kunning.
WeirdBoy with Da jump, Warpath + smite for 1 cp.
9x boyz with slugga and choppa + a nob with powerklaw
9x boyz with shootas + a nob with powerklaw
19 boyz with sluggas and choppa + a nob with powerklaw (Skarboyz for 1 cp)
6x nobz with big choppas + a nob boss with powerklaw
3xMega nobz with powerklaw and kustom shoota
Painboy
Deff dread with 2 klaws and 2 buzzsaws
Chinork warkopta with 2x rattler kannons and big shoota
Trukk w. big shoota.
Grot mob patrol for 2CP:
Big Mek with KFF 10x Grots
3x Grot tanks with Kustom mega blasta, + a kommanda with 2 kustom mega blastas
4x Killa Kanz with Rokkit launchers, 2 of them with saws, 2 of them with klaws. Sparkly bitz for 1 CP.
1x Mek gun with Kustom Mega kannon.
I had first turn, and did okay'ish in turn one (i always hate the entirety of turn 1, its like i only know what im doing by turn 2). When turn 2 started, i had basically lost all my boyz, but luckily 5 boyz remained of my 20 skarboyz so they got Da green tide'd in turn 2.
By the time it was his turn, in turn 2, my Killa Kanz with sparkly bitz, my mek gun and my Grot tanks had destroyed 2 dreadnought looking space marine walkers (i dont play space marine so i dont know their names) and a weird tank that had a 5+ invul save (think he called it an assault transport). When those 3 units died in round 2 suddenly i felt like the game could be won again.
By the end of my turn 3 the game was already over, all his vehicles were gone and i had taken out most things capable of doing any harm. Ghaz was down to 4 wounds by turn 2 but i managed to heal him to 7 in turn 3 so he was somewhat ready to krump again, by medi squig + a painboy combo.
I dont know about you guys but i always get the feeling when im on turn 1 and my opponent starts out that the battle is absolutely hopeless. Yet somehow ive just managed to get a victory anyway. In this game my Grot tanks, Killa kanz, and Mek Gun were absolute MVPs. They shreddeed those tanks like paper, and due to my Grot mob culture, i was able to reroll my pesky 1s; they also thinned out a bit of the space marine models.
This isnt an ideal army, it just happen to be what i have but i kinda like it.
Im not very good at using my Mega Nobz in trukks though. on turn one i hid them behind a house for obscuring because i was afraid i would waste them, but that only resulted in them getting to the battle so late they literally hit nothing. Drove them out in turn 2 but most dangerous things were already dead by then. So i moved up and only got the mega nobz out by turn 3 but again, nothing much to really kill. Generally either i send the trukk in first to die and my Mega nobz afterwards, or i send it in too late in fear of it dying that ive wasted all the points on bringing them because i dont use them at all.
My Nobz in general also dont seem to really do anything except being a bullet sponge.
Beardedragon wrote: Im not very good at using my Mega Nobz in trukks though. on turn one i hid them behind a house for obscuring because i was afraid i would waste them, but that only resulted in them getting to the battle so late they literally hit nothing. Drove them out in turn 2 but most dangerous things were already dead by then. So i moved up and only got the mega nobz out by turn 3 but again, nothing much to really kill. Generally either i send the trukk in first to die and my Mega nobz afterwards, or i send it in too late in fear of it dying that ive wasted all the points on bringing them because i dont use them at all.
Maybe have the KFF join the MANZ on the Trukk to give it some protection. And most crucially; target saturation. Present the opponent with as many targets as possible. Don´t hide everything but a thing or two. Either hide everything, most likely impossible, or rather present a bold and broad front, stressing the opponent so he down prioritizes killing the MANZ-Trukk.
It sounds like you already have this with the mechanized gunline shooting up his armour. Keep doing that and just send stuff forward at the same time.
A question about the Nobz. Are they riding the Chinork? I don´t get why they get shot up so easily.
Beardedragon wrote: Im not very good at using my Mega Nobz in trukks though. on turn one i hid them behind a house for obscuring because i was afraid i would waste them, but that only resulted in them getting to the battle so late they literally hit nothing. Drove them out in turn 2 but most dangerous things were already dead by then. So i moved up and only got the mega nobz out by turn 3 but again, nothing much to really kill. Generally either i send the trukk in first to die and my Mega nobz afterwards, or i send it in too late in fear of it dying that ive wasted all the points on bringing them because i dont use them at all.
Maybe have the KFF join the MANZ on the Trukk to give it some protection. And most crucially; target saturation. Present the opponent with as many targets as possible. Don´t hide everything but a thing or two. Either hide everything, most likely impossible, or rather present a bold and broad front, stressing the opponent so he down prioritizes killing the MANZ-Trukk.
It sounds like you already have this with the mechanized gunline shooting up his armour. Keep doing that and just send stuff forward at the same time.
A question about the Nobz. Are they riding the Chinork? I don´t get why they get shot up so easily.
Hey friend. My Nobz were not in the Chinork, i just use the Chinork with free rattler kannons as a gunship. But i think you have a point, i really need to re-evaluate what units i have visible on turn one. As it stands right now its mainly just boyz that are visible. Also i need to better position myself, which units are near the KFF and which are not. Sadly the KFF isnt big enough to both protect MANZ, Nobz, Killa kanz and grot tanks. I should probably invest in 2 KFFs.But that would also mean i had to remove 75 points worth of something. i guess my Chinork would go as its legend anyway now.
The Nobz dont necessarily "just" die, i just dont have enough transports to really use them properly ( want a battlewagon for my MANZ and the Trukk for Nobz). And sometimes i fail my Da Jump to get them across the field, but before that i hide them in obscuring places to avoid them dying, so they're fresh when they get to the field. Im sort of dependant on that Da Jump.
I never just footslug my Nobz forward, again because i fear they get killed. So yea, i hide them, and da jump them. Sometimes it works, other times it.. doesnt. This battle it worked but my charge failed sadly. Resulting in them taking up all the fire on the left side of the board. i guess at that point it was pretty good as the space marines attacked nothing else near there. They were also charged by space marines with chainswords, which resulted in my turn 3 being my Deff Dreads turn to run up and charge them.
So i guess in that sense my Nobz did take up a lot of fire, and set up kills for me in the next round, but they didnt attack anyone.
In my previous battle against a death guard, they got da jump'ed near a predator, had a successful charge, but still failed to kill their target. So even when i manage to get where i need, i dont always get the result im after. It makes me wonder if Nobz are really that useful considering a nob with big choppa is like 22 points or something, where as a boy with a choppa is only 8. Or maybe my Nobz should have been a secondary group of Mega nobz i dont know.
Tomsug wrote: I have a serious doubt about Nobz like you. It' s all or nothing. Boyz or MANz. Nobz has cons form boths.
I use Big Choppa Nobz just in killteam. But they shine there!
Thats what im starting to think as well. I have Nobz because my start collecting orks + Prophecy of the wolf package. I guess the Nobz will be the ones that will be replaced first with what ever i have coming next.
Sadly i only have this 20k army, i have nothing to replace them with as it stands.
Keep the nobz models. I used 2 or 3 packs of them already to kitbash kommando nobz, boyz nobz and big meks with kff etc. These sprues are gold for spare parts.
Tomsug wrote: Keep the nobz models. I used 2 or 3 packs of them already to kitbash kommando nobz, boyz nobz and big meks with kff etc. These sprues are gold for spare parts.
true, my ony KFF big mek is a Nob body with the KFF package from Mega nobz, + the mega nob big mek helmet on.
But i cant really convert them well in to anything at this point. they are already modelled and painted.
I think Nobs are getting a bit of a buff in our next 'dex so it's probably worth holding onto them.
My thought with nobs is to keep them near a KFF as AP-2 will cripple their weedy 4+ saves. Then have half of them cheap and half of them loaded up on killsaws, and then if half the unit makes it to combat, then they will probably kill what they're combatting.
If you can have models in a transport, do. Even if you are planning on footslogging anyway, or walking to an objective, you get extra protection and a 3" extra movement from disembarking. Warkoptas were an excellent means to deliver small CC units, It'll be a shame to see them go. I really hope we get some plastic airforce, with flying transports. Maybe keyed around stormboys, allowing them to disembark after a move but then not move any further, at potential cost to stormboy life. I love the idea of a flyer with 20 stormboys inside...
Nobz Despite not being terrible, Nobz struggle to find a place between MANz and boyz. Dual Killsaws, Big Choppas and double choppas are the preferred loadouts. Equipping multiple combi weapons cost too much for what you get. Be aware that ammo runts might trigger blast rules.
Sums it up well. They struggle being a multi purpose platform, but to squishy to utilize it.
E.g. if Skorchas got 12" range like Imperium gear ther´d be more of a case for them. Jumped forward, Skorchas to soften the opponent and charge.
I believe they suffer from the game getting increasingly lethal. Notice how Marines started in RT and now we have Primaris. It´s an ever expanding arms race which creates imbalance between Dexes due to the long production times
some bloke wrote: I think Nobs are getting a bit of a buff in our next 'dex so it's probably worth holding onto them.
My thought with nobs is to keep them near a KFF as AP-2 will cripple their weedy 4+ saves. Then have half of them cheap and half of them loaded up on killsaws, and then if half the unit makes it to combat, then they will probably kill what they're combatting.
If you can have models in a transport, do. Even if you are planning on footslogging anyway, or walking to an objective, you get extra protection and a 3" extra movement from disembarking. Warkoptas were an excellent means to deliver small CC units, It'll be a shame to see them go. I really hope we get some plastic airforce, with flying transports. Maybe keyed around stormboys, allowing them to disembark after a move but then not move any further, at potential cost to stormboy life. I love the idea of a flyer with 20 stormboys inside...
Ive been using foot Nobz quite a bit for Crusade (using pts instead of PL) and you really need a Waaagh! Banner Nob to support them. I just find that my killsaws never connect. To start with I ran them as 5, 3 with double choppas, 2 killsaws on the Boss and a big choppa and choppa Nob. They then had 2 Ammo Runts as ablative wounds to eat a autocannon or plasma gun. I would run them alongside my Warboss with brutal but kunnin, killaklaw and da biggest boss and a KFF Big Mek.
Now I know, crusade is super small scales games but my club is FULL of marines. We have Blood Angels, 2x Space Wolves, Deathwatch, White Scars, Blazen Claws (Iron Hands), Soul Drinkers (Imperial Fists) and 3 x Ultra Marines. I host and organise the Crusade, do all the rules and queries and we have 27 players. Its played more competitively than youd think.
But the Nobz have always in my 18 games of 9th reached combat. If you want them to reach combat you can pretty much ensure it in your list building, be it Da Jump, Teleported, Trukk/Battlewagon, whatever it is. I just dont see good returns on their damage. My latest iteration is 3 dual killsaw Nobz, 2 big choppa and choppa Nobz then 5 dual choppa Nobz with 2 Ammo Runts.
Ive played enough games to not care about Blast weapons. If someone wants your unit dead, they will kill it. If you play smart and do everything you can to get that first engagement you will get them to charge. I just dont feel like Nobz hit hard enough for their cost/force org slot. Marines throw out more attacks with better synergies than what Nobz can ever dream to get whilst also having better AP/Damage.
A Nob should be terrifying. And that should be reflected in their datasheet. Id like to see more attacks across the board, more bite to chopppas, a Boss Nob who actual adds something to the unit that isnt just leadership 7. Basic Nobz SHOULD be base Ld7, a Boss Nob is the leader of the Clans Nobz, why is he identical to other Nobz, smack another attack on him, give him a rule like Ironjaw Brutes used to have, where they get benefits fighting bigger targets (Duff up da Big Thing). Make Cybork bodies actually useful, -1 damage would be nice or even +1 save/5++ to those models that have it. We have 3 sources of 6+++ and each one doesnt do anything if you have 3 iterations of it, poor Snakebites ). Do something with bosspoles, bring it back and do something to Keepin Order.
As Scatha mentioned earlier, Nobz have fallen behind in GW's increasing focus on "elite of the elite" army types (DW, GK, Custodes, Primaris) which has consequently reduced the overall design space not just within the Imperial factions but in xenos as well comparatively. Compared to 5th edition, which is where regular Nobz were at their apex as actual "elite" choices, they have fallen woefully behind as we've been stripped of our survivability options in CC (Cybork bodies not being a 5++ save will forever bother me), wargear, (No more built in WAAAAGH! Banner option) and we fell behind on both bespoke rules and strats that make them useful.
Honestly, at this point if they're not going to bother updating them to feel like an actual elite unit they should make them troops choices so we have some more variety. As is, there's almost no reason not to take Meganobz or Biker Nobz instead.
Making nobs troops would be my favourite option, I think. I'd certainly like to take some units of Nobs if they were replacing Boys as my troops tax.
I'd also like them to get some more interesting guns (maybe a unit of mek-nobs testing out weird weapons, as a short-ranged rival for flash gitz) and a better CC profile. Nobs hitting on 3's seems off, especially when klaws and saws drop this to 4's. Nobs base should hit on 2's.
some bloke wrote: Making nobs troops would be my favourite option, I think. I'd certainly like to take some units of Nobs if they were replacing Boys as my troops tax.
I'd also like them to get some more interesting guns (maybe a unit of mek-nobs testing out weird weapons, as a short-ranged rival for flash gitz) and a better CC profile. Nobs hitting on 3's seems off, especially when klaws and saws drop this to 4's. Nobs base should hit on 2's.
I think that's definitely an area where I feel Nobz underperform in general, which is their ability to actually hit people with their CC weapons. Compared to previous editions where we hit most things on 3's regardless of weaponry, it's jarring to see a unit of Meganobz miss half of their attacks when you pay so much for them. It's especially egregious for us because we pretty much have no way to do mass hit re-rolls in CC, unlike marines or other armies where they have that to fall back on.
Also, I feel like rather than "primarising" boyz squads, having more Nobz show up as the core of Ork WAAAAGH!'s is a better reflection of Ghazzy's impact of making angrier, bigger Orks in his conflicts.
Nobs with the trike's twin boomsticks would be awesome.
I agree with everyone here. In 5th nobz were great because they had a Waaagh! Banner, attached doc, 5++ saves, a dedicated battlewagon , could be troops if you had a warboss, kill pretty much any vehicle with 2-3 PKs and charge out of a battlewagon after moving and because of their legendary wound allocation shenanigans.
Just check how much of that has survived till 9th, and you know why they aren't used anymore
They can still put on the hurt, just not as much as a lot of other options. But if they were troops then they'd be filling multiple roles.
Twinboomsticks would be epic as well, especially if they can keep a bigchoppa around as well.
The modern "elites" are generally either really annoying to get rid of or dead killy in shooting and melee. Nobz are good in melee but absolute ass in shooting, as the only gun they have access to is mega expensive for meh results.
Unfortunately anything involving options wont happen unless they gave us a new kit. So expecting anything beyond becoming troops and perhaps price adjustments isnt gonna happen. I dont see them updating that kit anytime soon, they'll add an "alternate" one before they redo that one.
I mean, honestly the guns in the Nobz kit DO look like twin boomsticks. That is something they could easily incorporate and I'm pretty sure everyone would take that over the kombi weapons or kustom shootas (why are they still 3 points each?!?). It would also make the current start collecting box make more sense since they would fill one of the mandatory troops slot if they were made troops. GW clearly want to sell more of them since they keep chucking them into all the boxed sets. May as well make them useful than being Nob leaders for boyz squads.
So I have a tournament I am going to in a week or so and thought I would ask for recommendations not on my list, but on secondary's to take! Feel free to comment on the list as well.
I am thinking one obvious one is engage on all fronts... and also banners. Plop in with a kill one based on enemy composition but I was wondering if I am missing a better option for my first two. Thanks anyone who has thoughts.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: So I have a tournament I am going to in a week or so and thought I would ask for recommendations not on my list, but on secondary's to take! Feel free to comment on the list as well.
I am thinking one obvious one is engage on all fronts... and also banners. Plop in with a kill one based on enemy composition but I was wondering if I am missing a better option for my first two. Thanks anyone who has thoughts.
I'd actually say raising banners isn't an ideal one just because most of the time I've seen it on lists that have very tanky units that are hard to shift or hordes of guys that block off access to an objective. The units that can pull that off in your list are currently too weedy and easily swept in combat. I've found that for most Ork lists you really only start with Engage on All Fronts, and then the other two secondaries are based on the mission and what your opponent is fielding. At best you go for Deploy Scramblers since your list has enough movement to bring your boyz into the mid-field and enemy backfield and you have grots to deploy the scramblers in your DZ.
Honestly, Nobs just fail because you might as well take Mega Nobs.
Big Choppas simply don't have the AP to be a reliable hammer -- even though 5 ppm isn't too expensive, I've seen my friends make too many 4+ saves (AP-1) for me to be too happy.
Kill saw or Double kill saw, with their price, are just too close to Mega Nobs. Might as well get a 2+ and +1 wound.
Double choppa as an alternate to 10 boys is more interesting to me, imo. 95 points for 5 nobs, 4 w/ double choopa, 1 kill saw / choppa (vs 90 for 10 boys + saw), seems like it could be an interesting choice in a Deathskulls army where they keep Obsec.
But in the grand scheme of things, since boys are required slots, Nobs need to be troops for this option to be interesting.
It certainly doesn't help that their stateline has fallen behind. There was a time when 2 wound infantry were rare and scary. A nob could go toe to toe with marine frontline infantry and mulch them.
The fact that now their statline is so common that most armies take weaponry specifically to deal with it (Plasma guns, autocannons) means they die far faster than they used to. I'm not sure how or if they will fix unarmoured nobs. Maybe improve their ld buffing ability? Give them a bodyguard ability? Something that rewards them for killing an enemy unit and showing the smaller ladz how it's done proppa?
I mean, in a bubble nobs are pretty okay right? But when you stack them up against their competitors... ehhh their faults start to show.
cody.d. wrote: It certainly doesn't help that their stateline has fallen behind. There was a time when 2 wound infantry were rare and scary. A nob could go toe to toe with marine frontline infantry and mulch them.
The fact that now their statline is so common that most armies take weaponry specifically to deal with it (Plasma guns, autocannons) means they die far faster than they used to. I'm not sure how or if they will fix unarmoured nobs. Maybe improve their ld buffing ability? Give them a bodyguard ability? Something that rewards them for killing an enemy unit and showing the smaller ladz how it's done proppa?
I mean, in a bubble nobs are pretty okay right? But when you stack them up against their competitors... ehhh their faults start to show.
Yeah this was my point exactly. They have the same statlines from 4th/5th edition with furious charged backed in to their strength. Nobz could tango most independent and squad based characters back then, same with your Warbosses and in the books Nobz were reflected as huge threats. I remember in Purging of Kallidus where a Nob cleaves his way through a squad of Dark Angels in a hab block with his power axe and the Chaplain gets taken to town and it takes the main character launching himself and the Nob out of the window to finish him off by landing on him, destroying the Chaplains armour in the process, the Nob fought the whole way down too! Even ripped of his helmet with his tusks.
But now they are getting outshinned by your basic Marines and Primaris. Personally I dont believe any army should have more close combat attacks that Orks. Why does an Outrider sarge have 7 attacks? Thats more than most if not all HQs in other races. If you compare Goffs to Blood Angels\Space Wolves, its pretty damn shocking how bad Goffs are as a melee subfaction. Could you imagine Orks getting +1 to hit or wound and either more reliably charges or just army wide heroic interventions?! in addition to special doctrines.....
I think Orks need more than datasheet changes, I think they need their fundamental rules updating and brought up in line with Necrons and Marines.
addnid wrote: They could just knock off a few PPM and all would be fine. 11 points per nob would make them work just fine no ?
you get to a point where you make things too cheap and they are only viable because of board control and wounds. 11pts is soooooo cheap for a 2 wound t4 4+ save model. Look at Skitarii, Kabalites, Battle Sisters. They are all 9-11pt models that are single wound, t3 and 5/4/3+ save (6++). Yeah they have good BS but they dont generally hit hard or hold up in a fist fight. Id rather Nobz be worth their pts before they get bumped down to silly levels where you just take them naked and flood the board.
yeah, i hate it when the fix is just "make it cheaper"
Theres 2 problems with that.
1) A lot of issues are not fixed by points alone (squigbuggy....) - sometimes the mechanics of the unit itself or its weapon options are just so bad it cant possibly be good.
2) Theres a point where even terrible units become kinda broken because they are unusually cheap for their durability. The before mentioned squigbuggy would definitely be used if it dropped to like 60ppm, but more because its just stupid durable for its price than its actually good.
Nobz would go from niche uses/generally overshadowed by MANz or Boyz for the given role you want them for to completely kicking boyz out of the menu if they just got cheaper. I'd rather Nobz, the non-mega variant, get extra rules and/or gear than price cuts.
Also nobz need to be 3w now, MANz at 4w. Change my mind.
cody.d. wrote: It certainly doesn't help that their stateline has fallen behind. There was a time when 2 wound infantry were rare and scary. A nob could go toe to toe with marine frontline infantry and mulch them.
The fact that now their statline is so common that most armies take weaponry specifically to deal with it (Plasma guns, autocannons) means they die far faster than they used to. I'm not sure how or if they will fix unarmoured nobs. Maybe improve their ld buffing ability? Give them a bodyguard ability? Something that rewards them for killing an enemy unit and showing the smaller ladz how it's done proppa?
I mean, in a bubble nobs are pretty okay right? But when you stack them up against their competitors... ehhh their faults start to show.
Yeah this was my point exactly. They have the same statlines from 4th/5th edition with furious charged backed in to their strength. Nobz could tango most independent and squad based characters back then, same with your Warbosses and in the books Nobz were reflected as huge threats. I remember in Purging of Kallidus where a Nob cleaves his way through a squad of Dark Angels in a hab block with his power axe and the Chaplain gets taken to town and it takes the main character launching himself and the Nob out of the window to finish him off by landing on him, destroying the Chaplains armour in the process, the Nob fought the whole way down too! Even ripped of his helmet with his tusks.
But now they are getting outshinned by your basic Marines and Primaris. Personally I dont believe any army should have more close combat attacks that Orks. Why does an Outrider sarge have 7 attacks? Thats more than most if not all HQs in other races. If you compare Goffs to Blood Angels\Space Wolves, its pretty damn shocking how bad Goffs are as a melee subfaction. Could you imagine Orks getting +1 to hit or wound and either more reliably charges or just army wide heroic interventions?! in addition to special doctrines.....
I think Orks need more than datasheet changes, I think they need their fundamental rules updating and brought up in line with Necrons and Marines.
Perhaps the warboss on bike is a clue on what's to come? He got an extra attack over his foot companion. Maybe most of the orks over base level will get an extra attack to accommodate how wildly the game has exploded? Remember when spacewolves with their bolter, CCW and pistol was like, wow impressive! Bolter and 3 attacks on the charge? Now a marine with similar loadout would be 4 or 5.
But yeah, orks losing furious charge as a faction rule and having it baked in is good and bad. I will never miss Str 3 ork boyz. But we do lack the impact that a charging unit of orks used to have. Once apon a time when a unit of orks hit home they hit with a KRUMP! Perhaps we will get a +1 to something on the charge, be it AP, wound or hit. It's well within their fluff and would synergise with their reroll charges.
Orks and Tau do feel like they're a special rule or two short of everyone else at the moment. I can see Ramshackle becoming more widespread, indicated by the FW rules. I can also see DX3 becoming an additional hit rather than additional shot. And i'm using the Goff Rokkas rules as an indication here. Yes flimsy I know but it did stand out. That and I think orks were one of the earlier Get 6 for extra attacks sort of factions. Then marines got several better versions shortly after. And with the always hit on 6s being passed to everyone the rule has lost a looooooot of it's lustre.
Vineheart01 wrote: yeah, i hate it when the fix is just "make it cheaper"
Theres 2 problems with that.
1) A lot of issues are not fixed by points alone (squigbuggy....) - sometimes the mechanics of the unit itself or its weapon options are just so bad it cant possibly be good.
2) Theres a point where even terrible units become kinda broken because they are unusually cheap for their durability. The before mentioned squigbuggy would definitely be used if it dropped to like 60ppm, but more because its just stupid durable for its price than its actually good.
Nobz would go from niche uses/generally overshadowed by MANz or Boyz for the given role you want them for to completely kicking boyz out of the menu if they just got cheaper. I'd rather Nobz, the non-mega variant, get extra rules and/or gear than price cuts.
Also nobz need to be 3w now, MANz at 4w. Change my mind.
I agree, I think Nobz should be 3 wounds and Meganobz 4 wounds. Or they both have access to a strat or base rules that make them reduce damage by 1 like Aberrants. Nobz should be tougher than a Space Marine. I dont care if they've crossed the rubicon or not. Space Marines are fast, but not as fast as Eldar. Space Marines are strong and tough, but not as much as an Ork. Space Marines are adaptive, but not as much as T'au.
Being transhuman doesnt mean you surpass other races out there. But by being a bit like each of these races thats how they become a threat. A fresh out of the trials and inductions Assault Marine shouldn't hold the ring in a naked bare fisted fight with a war-ravaged 600lbs Nob who has no patience with fancy words.
cody.d. wrote: It certainly doesn't help that their stateline has fallen behind. There was a time when 2 wound infantry were rare and scary. A nob could go toe to toe with marine frontline infantry and mulch them.
The fact that now their statline is so common that most armies take weaponry specifically to deal with it (Plasma guns, autocannons) means they die far faster than they used to. I'm not sure how or if they will fix unarmoured nobs. Maybe improve their ld buffing ability? Give them a bodyguard ability? Something that rewards them for killing an enemy unit and showing the smaller ladz how it's done proppa?
I mean, in a bubble nobs are pretty okay right? But when you stack them up against their competitors... ehhh their faults start to show.
Yeah this was my point exactly. They have the same statlines from 4th/5th edition with furious charged backed in to their strength. Nobz could tango most independent and squad based characters back then, same with your Warbosses and in the books Nobz were reflected as huge threats. I remember in Purging of Kallidus where a Nob cleaves his way through a squad of Dark Angels in a hab block with his power axe and the Chaplain gets taken to town and it takes the main character launching himself and the Nob out of the window to finish him off by landing on him, destroying the Chaplains armour in the process, the Nob fought the whole way down too! Even ripped of his helmet with his tusks.
But now they are getting outshinned by your basic Marines and Primaris. Personally I dont believe any army should have more close combat attacks that Orks. Why does an Outrider sarge have 7 attacks? Thats more than most if not all HQs in other races. If you compare Goffs to Blood Angels\Space Wolves, its pretty damn shocking how bad Goffs are as a melee subfaction. Could you imagine Orks getting +1 to hit or wound and either more reliably charges or just army wide heroic interventions?! in addition to special doctrines.....
I think Orks need more than datasheet changes, I think they need their fundamental rules updating and brought up in line with Necrons and Marines.
Perhaps the warboss on bike is a clue on what's to come? He got an extra attack over his foot companion. Maybe most of the orks over base level will get an extra attack to accommodate how wildly the game has exploded? Remember when spacewolves with their bolter, CCW and pistol was like, wow impressive! Bolter and 3 attacks on the charge? Now a marine with similar loadout would be 4 or 5.
But yeah, orks losing furious charge as a faction rule and having it baked in is good and bad. I will never miss Str 3 ork boyz. But we do lack the impact that a charging unit of orks used to have. Once apon a time when a unit of orks hit home they hit with a KRUMP! Perhaps we will get a +1 to something on the charge, be it AP, wound or hit. It's well within their fluff and would synergise with their reroll charges.
Orks and Tau do feel like they're a special rule or two short of everyone else at the moment. I can see Ramshackle becoming more widespread, indicated by the FW rules. I can also see DX3 becoming an additional hit rather than additional shot. And i'm using the Goff Rokkas rules as an indication here. Yes flimsy I know but it did stand out. That and I think orks were one of the earlier Get 6 for extra attacks sort of factions. Then marines got several better versions shortly after. And with the always hit on 6s being passed to everyone the rule has lost a looooooot of it's lustre.
Orks seem to be stuck in there statlines from 4-5 editions ago. Not much has changed for Orkz except getting furious charge baked into their statline. Where as Marines have seen change after change throughout there 8th and 9th ed lifecycle. Bolter Drill, cool, brought bolters up to line. Shock Assault, not needed. Doctrines, just needs to go. Having all 3 is too much. 1 or 2 of them is fine but all 3 is too far, in additon with the extra wound and wargear changes theyve seen in this new codex and then chapter specific doctrine benefits too. They should of done indexes again for everyone. Thats what I strongly believe in. I watched a batrep between Space Wolves and Chaos Space Marines today and the difference between Grey Hunters and actually CSM is soooooooo wide and stupid.
I know marines were crap at the start of 8th but now its just constant SM for months. It feels like ages since marines werent dominating the top tables. Orks kind of need these same rule additions. I think DDD should just makes those 6s additional hits. PERIOD. I want Waaagh! to gain momentum as the battle goes on, getting stronger and stronger. I want our Nobz and Bosses to actually be a threat. Boyz to not be push overs, whats the point in even having a 6+ save nowadays, or a slugga, or stikkbombs. Id rather pay a pt or 2 less and just have a naked boy with a choppa and no save.
Honestly I'd prefer if it were more a case of the warboss or a nob squad doing something and passing on bonuses. Yeah it requires a trigger which is always hit and miss but a Waagh is meant to be a crusade centred entirely around a warboss' ability to hold a bunch of soccer hooligans together and keep them all running in the one direction.
The rules for AOS Megaboss' feel pretty good. They get better as the game goes on and in the big waagh you get a minor but helpful buff for them just being around.
But I get what you mean regarding the marines. I use a term from Mobas and other games from time to time. Being over tuned or having an overloaded toolbox. It can lead to things being wildly unbalanced when things unintended to synergise in stupid ways. Like an imperial first Dev Centurions had better anti tank with their heavy bolters than with their lascannons. And the ability to wound even titans on a 4+ and get 3 shots for every 5 they happened to roll to hit. I've been on the receiving end. It wasn't fun.
Then you have orks. Uuum, yeah if I get a 6 I can try to shoot again, but I will possibly need another for that to work. Insert your chad astrates vs virgin ork memes here.
Just compare Assault Intercessors to Nobz. 2ppm more gets you ap1 CC attacks, an 18" ap1 pistol. Both get affected by doctrines, a 3+ save, a better BS, better leadership, better synergies available to them like transhuman and rerolls.... its pretty disgusting really and that's a troops choice.
And orks get, 1 pt better strength? Some okay stratagems and one or two nice powers but yeah, marines are leagues ahead atm. Only our collection of wonderful light vehicles seem to be keeping orks relevant in tourneys atm.
I have the feeling that Nobs will go the immortal route. R5 and maybe access to a better cybork body. No more. Ideally they also so have 2+ ws as the special goffs from the WD. With those improvements if they keep the current cost they sgoukde be fine and not OP.
Same for MANZ, R5. Ws2+. Done
------
Thinking twice. WS 2+ will not happen as FW nob bikers are WS3+. However, I am hoping for a rework of some rules such that MANZ dont go 4+
I've return to 40k. Since I haven't played for a long time, I have some problems with rules. I'm mixing it between Warhammer Battle, Kill Team and previous editions.
So, quick question: assuming non Evil Sun unit, after Da Jump/Tellyporta, I need to roll 8 or 9 to connect a charge. There is something about >more than 9"<. If more, then I assume I need to roll 9. Is it right?
tulun wrote: Yeah making things cheaper obviously works — see new kill tanks vs old.
Boys are probably a mediocre at best troop choice. The 17 to 11 ppm drop would be like dropping boys down to 5 points.
A 5 PPM boy with its current stat line would be borderline broken. S tier easily.
Making underperforming units cheaper isn't the way to go, unless those units are extremely overcosted. It's exactly the opposite path that GW took a couple months ago when most of the stuff got a price hike, along with reducing the dice rolling so adding attacks is also a wrong way to go. I think the best standard should be around 1500ish points considering 10+ years ago points costs and in order to keep the current 2000 points format things can't become too cheap. Even GW doesn't want that.
I'd just want an AP-1 for choppas, which is not unreasonable since chainswords have it and choppas have always been orks chainsword. It would also be fluffy: in 3rd edition choppas limited the enemy save to a 4+ which means an actual AP-1 against MEQs and even an AP-2 against TEQs.
IMHO the majority of ork weapons should get a -1AP bonus.
If nobz go down to 11 points, where do you put burna boyz?
Since nobz have lost everything that made them different from MANz, there simply will never be a case where both units are viable.
Those goff nobz from white dwarf actually were a good step in the right direction WS2+ and +1 attack while near their warboss would have made them a great unit for riding bonebreakers or trukks, but sadly no matched play points for them.
Maybe they get added to the codex similar to the wolfs of morkai, but we all know orks can't have nice things
Cybork = -1 to damage, all models can take it (points or stratagem, maybe chance to recover strat cost if you have a big mek)
Twin boomstikks - yes please!
Jump-packs - why wouldn't stormboy nobs get together? possibly a separate unit!
WS2+ - this thing lives to hit things, it should be good at it!
troops - I want to make an army with nobs instead of boys, it would be much more better! also objsec!
Alternatively, I'd like to see multiple versions of nobs as separate units. EG:
Skorcha Nobs = burna boys on 'roids
Tankbusta Nobs = tankbustas on 'roids
stormboy nobs = stormboys on 'roids
etc.
so they get some more fancy weapons (EG tankbustas, one nob for every 5 can take a "Big Rokkit" which is S10 AP-4, gets hot. Skorcha Nobs could have their own dedicated transport which bumps their range up.
Stormboy Nobs could have new close combat weapons which attack units they move over.
I like the idea of units having their own unique things rather than 3 units with a variation of the exact same rule (out of thin air example, if each of these units had a "on a 4+, they can act again in the "X" phase). no stagnant rules!
Cybork = -1 to damage, all models can take it (points or stratagem, maybe chance to recover strat cost if you have a big mek)
Twin boomstikks - yes please!
Jump-packs - why wouldn't stormboy nobs get together? possibly a separate unit!
WS2+ - this thing lives to hit things, it should be good at it!
troops - I want to make an army with nobs instead of boys, it would be much more better! also objsec!
Alternatively, I'd like to see multiple versions of nobs as separate units. EG:
Skorcha Nobs = burna boys on 'roids
Tankbusta Nobs = tankbustas on 'roids
stormboy nobs = stormboys on 'roids
etc.
so they get some more fancy weapons (EG tankbustas, one nob for every 5 can take a "Big Rokkit" which is S10 AP-4, gets hot. Skorcha Nobs could have their own dedicated transport which bumps their range up.
Stormboy Nobs could have new close combat weapons which attack units they move over.
I like the idea of units having their own unique things rather than 3 units with a variation of the exact same rule (out of thin air example, if each of these units had a "on a 4+, they can act again in the "X" phase). no stagnant rules!
With all this, we have to rely on GW making kits for these models. I wouldnt like Stormboy Nobz as a unit, having a chance of them dying when they use their rokkit packs and being expensive as well... it will just give you feel bad moments, id rather pay more for Nob bikers and not risk blowing myself up.
With all this, we have to rely on GW making kits for these models. I wouldnt like Stormboy Nobz as a unit, having a chance of them dying when they use their rokkit packs and being expensive as well... it will just give you feel bad moments, id rather pay more for Nob bikers and not risk blowing myself up.
I'd like the option. Jump-nobs will have a different application to biker-nobs, being able to climb ruins and skip over terrain being a key aspect. IIRC, stormboys only lose models if they advance (and that only if they auto-6, am I remembering right?) so Nob stormboys would be safe unless they had to go extra-fast, which is a player choice, and as you say, not one taken lightly.
It took longer for the marine+necron one because the marine codex was fething complicated as hell and huge. FW isnt compllicated at all, theres hardly any rules outside of the datasheets (something i was honestly hoping for was FW kustom jobs)
Bonde wrote: When do you guys think the new FW rules will be on Battlescribe?
I find creating new lists without BS very time consuming and difficult.
If you have the FW stats/points you can go into the... Data editor and add/remove option and adjust numbers.
Takes a bit of looking to find the right links but there's no coding or anything involved it's just text boxes and /yes/no arguments.
With all this, we have to rely on GW making kits for these models. I wouldnt like Stormboy Nobz as a unit, having a chance of them dying when they use their rokkit packs and being expensive as well... it will just give you feel bad moments, id rather pay more for Nob bikers and not risk blowing myself up.
I'd like the option. Jump-nobs will have a different application to biker-nobs, being able to climb ruins and skip over terrain being a key aspect. IIRC, stormboys only lose models if they advance (and that only if they auto-6, am I remembering right?) so Nob stormboys would be safe unless they had to go extra-fast, which is a player choice, and as you say, not one taken lightly.
What role would you have them do that stormboyz cant? And what price would they be? Currently stormboyz pay a 4pts premium ontop of the standard boyz cost so that would put nobz with rokkit packs at 21ppm before gear which is pretty expensive and again 9pts more from that gives you the biker statline and dakkaguns to boot. Yeah they cant ignore terrain like fly but when charging you still have to traverse terrain normally like any infantry would so its only the movement phase that they get to ignore terrain and models.
I would rather stormboyz get better at their role before adding in another unit to supersede them making them functionally worthless. Same with tankbustas, burnas, lootas, etc. These units are iconic and should be brought up in line with other units. Creating a new Nob unit to replace their role pretty much is not the best way. Most orks grow out of being stormboyz anyway it's usually the yoofs than join the korps.
Give burnas actually proper flamers, 12" range d6 shots. Make pyromanics ignore light/heavy cover. Make lootas like obliterators, str 6+d3 apd3 damage d3 to represent the myriad of different weapons in the unit, they arent all solid slug weapons there is looted lascannons and fusion blasters in there. Pair this with meks of a strat that allow rerolls to the characteristics like obliterators get access too. Tankbustas should get more shots, their rokkit launchas have multiple rokkits on the model, in DOW2 and 3 they fire 3 rokkits at a time. I'd rather these changes be done that creating a nob equivalent for each of these.
I'd dont think making Orkz into primaris is the way to go. Nobz are cool and all but the majority of a Waaagh is made up with your standard boy, even in a Waaagh like Ghaz's. He might have a higher proportion of Nobz and Scarboyz but those flocking to his battles are your standard Waaaghs joining up.
With all this, we have to rely on GW making kits for these models. I wouldnt like Stormboy Nobz as a unit, having a chance of them dying when they use their rokkit packs and being expensive as well... it will just give you feel bad moments, id rather pay more for Nob bikers and not risk blowing myself up.
I'd like the option. Jump-nobs will have a different application to biker-nobs, being able to climb ruins and skip over terrain being a key aspect. IIRC, stormboys only lose models if they advance (and that only if they auto-6, am I remembering right?) so Nob stormboys would be safe unless they had to go extra-fast, which is a player choice, and as you say, not one taken lightly.
What role would you have them do that stormboyz cant? And what price would they be? Currently stormboyz pay a 4pts premium ontop of the standard boyz cost so that would put nobz with rokkit packs at 21ppm before gear which is pretty expensive and again 9pts more from that gives you the biker statline and dakkaguns to boot. Yeah they cant ignore terrain like fly but when charging you still have to traverse terrain normally like any infantry would so its only the movement phase that they get to ignore terrain and models.
I would rather stormboyz get better at their role before adding in another unit to supersede them making them functionally worthless. Same with tankbustas, burnas, lootas, etc. These units are iconic and should be brought up in line with other units. Creating a new Nob unit to replace their role pretty much is not the best way. Most orks grow out of being stormboyz anyway it's usually the yoofs than join the korps.
Give burnas actually proper flamers, 12" range d6 shots. Make pyromanics ignore light/heavy cover. Make lootas like obliterators, str 6+d3 apd3 damage d3 to represent the myriad of different weapons in the unit, they arent all solid slug weapons there is looted lascannons and fusion blasters in there. Pair this with meks of a strat that allow rerolls to the characteristics like obliterators get access too. Tankbustas should get more shots, their rokkit launchas have multiple rokkits on the model, in DOW2 and 3 they fire 3 rokkits at a time. I'd rather these changes be done that creating a nob equivalent for each of these.
I'd dont think making Orkz into primaris is the way to go. Nobz are cool and all but the majority of a Waaagh is made up with your standard boy, even in a Waaagh like Ghaz's. He might have a higher proportion of Nobz and Scarboyz but those flocking to his battles are your standard Waaaghs joining up.
Well, one role that stormnobs would fill would be arriving via deepstrike with special weapons, EG skorchas.
I would like to keep the eparation of Nobs and Boys. I would prefer to see Nobs fill a special-weapons role more than a primaris-boys one. what makes Nobs interesting is that every model can have a special weapon, not one per 10 or just the nob.
I would also love to see some more love for our Boys. I find it somewhat disheartening to think that out troops have 2 loadout options, rokkits and pk's aside. Having a unit of 'ard boys with lower movement but better saves would be awesome. Having a unit of spanna boys with experimental weaponry (power choppas, mini-klaws, zappy-shootas).
Bonde wrote: When do you guys think the new FW rules will be on Battlescribe?
I find creating new lists without BS very time consuming and difficult.
If you have the FW stats/points you can go into the... Data editor and add/remove option and adjust numbers.
Takes a bit of looking to find the right links but there's no coding or anything involved it's just text boxes and /yes/no arguments.
Thanks man, I did not know that BS had this feature!
I think Buzzgob now makes Deff dread with 4x Kustom Mega blasta a pretty intetesting thing, maybe you could even give it sparkly bits. It sound better than going Death skulls for the reroll thing. But of course if you went death skulls you could reroll several deff dreads where as Goff Buzzgob can only buff one unit, and the Deff dreads are seperated once they are deployed.
Or maybe rokkit Killa kanz who all have sparkly bits as their kustom job in a unit, then with his buffs they should hit on 2s. thats pretty okay.
Kinda sad the Grot tanks lost their shooter they got for free though. It never did much but it did do something and i just wasted time making small shootas to put on.
Also a note: I think Battlescribe has updated the ork forge world units.
Whisper it quietly but I think the Kustom Stompa may actually be competitive now.
With a few caveats;
You need to be Evil Sunz for visions in the smoke
Further to that you need a big blob of 30 ork boys to babysit the weirdboy to make the visions go off on 6+.
You then need to dump Dakka Dakka on it.
So yeah, you are spending a ton of resources, BUT having just deleted an Ad Mech army on T2 with the firepower on this thing I think its interesting.
He had 6 of the twin Lascannon chickens and a big unit of the Lost in space robots so he was geared up to kill "knights" he took 20 wounds off and then got deleted.
My rolling wasn't even that hot, the dakka dakka with full re-rolls is just very effective.
I think the price base of 850 pts is just about viable and allows you to bring enough other stuff to play the primaries.
It's certainly worth a try PE, but that's a single big model with a lot of support dumped into it. IF the opponent manages to take it out it may be an uphill fight from there.
Had a game against a white scars army this weekend. Made a list centred around 2 warbosses on bikes and a pair of 5 man nob biker units, backed up by some orkymatic piston dreads and a pair of bone breakers.
Sadly the terrain made some chokepoints so I only really got the nobs into combat with some intercessors. The first few turns were okay as I ground down his mid tier units, held objectives and scored early. His redemptor wiffed against my smashboss and got one shot in return with damage to spare. Even off the charge Rollas are no joke.
Also a big chunk of my damage was blunted by a combo of transhuman plus interrupt stratagems to first stop damage then attack another unit before it can even swing. I need to plan around that combo better.
Marine bikers are kinda bull. Way too powerful for what you pay. And on turn 3 they can even chop their way through tanks with laughable ease.
But damn do smashbosses have a tonne of capacity and dreads can move fast, hit hard but hate transhuman with a passion.
Pickled_egg wrote: Whisper it quietly but I think the Kustom Stompa may actually be competitive now.
With a few caveats;
You need to be Evil Sunz for visions in the smoke
Further to that you need a big blob of 30 ork boys to babysit the weirdboy to make the visions go off on 6+.
You then need to dump Dakka Dakka on it.
So yeah, you are spending a ton of resources, BUT having just deleted an Ad Mech army on T2 with the firepower on this thing I think its interesting.
He had 6 of the twin Lascannon chickens and a big unit of the Lost in space robots so he was geared up to kill "knights" he took 20 wounds off and then got deleted.
My rolling wasn't even that hot, the dakka dakka with full re-rolls is just very effective.
I think the price base of 850 pts is just about viable and allows you to bring enough other stuff to play the primaries.
It's only one game but it felt OP powerful.
I feel the main problem is that it heavily banks on you having first turn since you can't hide the stompa behind obscuring terrain. With how prevalent anti-tank is becoming in the current meta, I'm not sure if the Stompa will necessarily survive T1 without being brought down to its lowest bracket.
Also, given the recent buffs to Goff walkerz with the changes to Buzzgob, if I were to do a semi-competitive list that was based around a dred waaagh, what would be the best klan to go for? It was usually between Deffskullz and Tin'eads, but with the character buffs for Goffs I feel that they might worth giving a go. Also, given that it will be vehicle heavy anyways, is there any point in bringing boyz? I know grots aren't ideal at their price point but at least they're cheaper.
Vehicle based armies are best off with trukk boyz in my opinion. They can't be picked off by unused anti-infantry easily and they provide you with two units for capturing primaries and scoring secondaries like linebreaker.
On the "how to make Orks more viable" topic I hope we get a Secondary Objective like Space Wolves "Warrior's Pride" - have 2 units engaged or successfully make a charge for 3VP/Turn. It feels quite Orky, but could be something similar. I imagine Orks "thing" the roar of battle and/or speed. Say we got 2 VP for charging at least with 2 units or 3 if one was a vehicle too with a bonus of one more if we destroyed a units in the following melee phase.
The constant arms race leaves me disinterested really, but this design space is fresh.
Do you guys think that the Evil Sunz Klan Kultur is viable for infantry lists?
What about when you field Ghazzy?
I know that you give up the Goff exploding 6's in melee, and you loose out on the option to take Skarboyz, but you gain a lot of speed with the +1" to move, advance and charge, and that speed might be very important in a meta where you have to get to the objectives before the opponent does.
I'm having a 1500pts list in mind with two big blobs of Boyz on foot to take the midfield, MegaNobz and Tankbustas to take down the big stuff, and StormBoyz to take a backfield objective.
They are supported by the various supporting chars (Biggest Boss w. Killa klaw, Banner Nob, Painboy, KFF Big Mek, Weirdboy).
The plan is to make it into close combat with the Boyz as fast as possible and park on the midfield objectives. The Mega Nobz get in via tellyporta or da jump and strike at something important, depending on the opening. Otherwise they will park on an objective in cover.
The Stormboyz deepstrike and try to claim a backfield objective from the opponent.
The Tankbustas drive around in my backfield and try to take out any vehicles that threaten my Boyz the most.
I think that Evil Sunz will do a lot for this list. Perhaps even more than the Goffs Kultur could.
Depends on how competitive you want/need to be. Goff skarboyz are what makes those lists work in tournaments, if your opponents aren't playing on tournament level, evil suns is a fine culture for them.
I'd also like to point out that tank bustas rarely "drive around" a lot. They will be a priority target for any player with at least some skill and usually dead by turn 3.
You increase the size of the crater in which the tank bustas die in
As Bonde said, single vehicles in ork infantry never have worked and probably never will. If you are running vehicles already, a forktress with tank bustas inside is a rather decent, if expensive, threat than can be paired with buggies, planes or a naut.
You increase the size of the crater in which the tank bustas die in
As Bonde said, single vehicles in ork infantry never have worked and probably never will. If you are running vehicles already, a forktress with tank bustas inside is a rather decent, if expensive, threat than can be paired with buggies, planes or a naut.
yea thanks. Im running Goff but im tryng to not make full infantry armies, specially with the New Buzzgob changes i wanna try a Mek based melee army. I never got hold of tank bustas because stores never had them on stock, but i have wanted them for a while now. Not being able to get them lead me to find -AP units in other places such as my free Grot tanks (free from kromlech) with KMB, my Mek Gun and my newly acquired Killa Kanz with rokkits.
To that i also have a question, its about the stratagem "Dreaded death machine". Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase, when a DEFF DREADS unit from your army is chosen to fight with. Until the end of the phase, each time an enemy model is destroyed as a result of an attack made by that unit, you can immediately make an additional attack against the same target using the same weapon. These additional attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks.
So if i kill someone, and i generate an extra hit, can that extra hit still proc Goff exploding 6's? Because i run Goff so that kind of becomes important for me to know.
Im guessing you cant generate extra hits by kills to stop the sequence from being endless, but i hope i still get to proc my extra hits on Goff 6's.
Battlewagon carrying shooty units died with the transition between AV to T. Now T8 is huge compared to T7 and for the same cost of a BW you can fit two trukks (which also saves you a HS slot) which are better than a single wagon in any possible way to carry your bustas/gitz.
T6 and T7 are exactly the same against pretty much every anti tank weapon, 2x10W is better than 1x16W, and two bodies means better split fire and range coverage.
The only downside could be the loss of a built- in 5++ that isn't available for trukks, but it's also a CP saved and having two bodies instead of one helps to waste enemy firepower by overkilling the trukk, which combined to the +4W and the Ramshakle rule counters the lack of the Forktress upgrade. Trukks can also easily benefit from a KFF.
Keep your BW for carrying melee units: you'll be T8 and your only worhty weapon (the rolla) may have some synergy with the unit(s) embarked.
Vehicles of all kinds mix well, so units like bonebreakers (with MANz inside), dreads, scrapjets and nauts are good choices to go with buzzgob as they benefit from the extra hits goffs get. The nauts are especially vicious, as you get three hit rolls per attack, and each six turns into another three hit rolls. Mix those with evergreens like SJD and burna bommers and you'll get yourself a propper goff mek army.
As for tank bustas, you don't need the models - they are nothing but boyz with rokkits so just grab all those rokkits from your boyz sprues and build some yourself. For bomb squigs you can either get an AoS squigs box, or buy some third parts (kromlech has some cool ones). I'd bet the majority of tank bustas being played are not from the GW box.
Concerning the dreaded death machine: You can generate extra hits from both the stratagem and the culture, but any extra attack can never generate more attacks in any way. So every base attack can generate a maximum of two additional attacks, one from rolling a six and one from killing something.
I made all my bombsquigs by using the squighounds bitz from the gretchins' kit. Just remove the Runtherd's arm, glue one of the backpacks with bombs from the boyz or nobz kit and add a 25mm base. Done. Cheap (you just need to buy a few 25mm bases) and extremely easy to do.
Except Stompa, any big vehicle from our army dies in one turn, if opponent wants. I tried riding tankbustas couple of times and you can' t save them by better vehicle. You can safe them by redundancy - take 2 smaller squads in 2 trukks - or by deepstrike - full squad of bad moons tankbustas with more dakka and shooting twice have almost enought dakka. ..... And die in next turn.
Unless you shoot down all major anti infantry weapons before they come. But it' s very theoryhammer...
Can confirm, also doesn't seem to have an obvious errors. Just keep in mind that some units have been removed and are therefore no longer legal to play until there is a legends update for them.
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Pickled_egg wrote: Whisper it quietly but I think the Kustom Stompa may actually be competitive now.
With a few caveats;
You need to be Evil Sunz for visions in the smoke
Further to that you need a big blob of 30 ork boys to babysit the weirdboy to make the visions go off on 6+.
You then need to dump Dakka Dakka on it.
I thought about this and came to the conclusion that you might be right. If you get a lifta-droppa arm for one side and the deff-kannon/gatler/rokkit arm (+ kustom job) for the other, there is a chance to actually get your points worth of shooting out of the big guy, and it doesn't care for degrading anymore.
I might skip the belly gun though, even with re-rolls it hardly feels like something worth 50 points.
Is the Korkscrew Kustom job good enough to field multiple Scrapjets? Or would it be better to field a mix of Scrapjets and Shokk Dragstas to have the option for mortal wounds both in CC and at range?
Regarding not bringing mixes armies (IE going all-tanks or all-infantry), I wonder if theres one build which could work...
Footslogging MANs escorting scary vehicles
MANS need anti-tank to bring them down reliably. But if the opponent is faced with T8 units (bonebreakas and gorkanaughts), then they will either waste their AT on the vehicles, letting MANs make it to their lines intact, or they will direct the AT guns at MANs and the scary vehicles will make it.
I guess I'm saying that MANs are more like vehicles than infantry...
Funnily enough, they nerfed the chinork quite substantially AND shunted it to legends. Thats just low, man.
On the upside they gave some of the old ork legend models point values now, so you can use them in matched play again.
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some bloke wrote: Regarding not bringing mixes armies (IE going all-tanks or all-infantry), I wonder if theres one build which could work...
Footslogging MANs escorting scary vehicles
MANS need anti-tank to bring them down reliably. But if the opponent is faced with T8 units (bonebreakas and gorkanaughts), then they will either waste their AT on the vehicles, letting MANs make it to their lines intact, or they will direct the AT guns at MANs and the scary vehicles will make it.
I guess I'm saying that MANs are more like vehicles than infantry...
MANz, mek guns and planes are the few (non-character) units that work in any kind of list.
I've finally moved up to 2000 points and so far I really like the list. Please let me know what you think. Link to the Dakka thread is in the spoilers.
How much does a kustom stompa with all gunz cost (including belly gun and lifts gun) there's technically only points in the Ork codex for supa rokkits (5 points previously per rocket but now it's just a normal weapon) and no points any where for "kustom supa rokkits)
I'm estimating 925 which would allow you to put it and a kff mek into reserve for 5 cp. If you were so inclined. Any clarity would be appreciated
Funnily enough, they nerfed the chinork quite substantially AND shunted it to legends. Thats just low, man.
Oddly Zhadsnark is T6 where as the Biker Boss is T7, so Im gonna guess the Warboss will be brought down a toughness as it doesnt really make sense why he is T7 right now anyway.
Maybe Warbosses go to T6 in general? There is a lot of stuff scattered around the book and the legend rules that seems to only make sense with the new codices, for example the WALKER keyword.
quite frankly i am positive they intentionally make Legends stuff bad so nobody uses them.
Everything in legends and i mean EVERYTHING is disgustingly overpriced or have oddly low statlines. Zhad is probably T6 to deter people from wanting to use him.
Legends of FW are obviously overpriced, underpowered and full of bugs. Battlefortres does not have a single word about its weapons so the sheet seems to be useless. Either some stupid grots made a mess, or I miss something. But the same problem have also the other armies, so I guess, it' s a grot work.
So much accurate dakka.
I've been on the receiving end. It wasn't fun.
