Marines have hair now. This is a great step forward

He looks stern...

OMG, I can't wait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Marines have hair now. This is a great step forward

HAHA, They like to spend a little time taking care of themselves now.

Like the tac squad, the marine aiming looks great, also nice to see a Dev with a Dev backpack!

 cyphertheory wrote:
Found these on /tg/ not sure if they made it here

Oh man.

Im super excited for this


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I seem to realize that GW is great at leaving things under wraps until the last minute. I mean I'm sure the word has been out about this but recently its exploded. Im liking that this seems to be happening in September. Not to long to wait.

Loving that apparent Sternguard with Combi-Flamer.

Like you guys said: HAIR!

Now those do look good, so tempted to finally get around to starting my own chapter.

Still trying to work out the scale of the centurions though, are they termie size or dread size?

You know what I'm liking the most so far out of this release? GW seem to finally have stopped using digital sculpting to be lazy with the faces(for eg, Marauder Horsemen; lovely heads, but almost all the bare ones are the exact same head with slightly different hair and piercings), each of the bare heads we've seen so far has its own features and personality(although the Tac Sgt and that Sternguard might be a bit similar if you ignore the hair).

And is it my imagination, or are those Tac marines a wee touch taller than the current ones?

Yeahhh stern guard . Interested in seeing if the standard bolters are the same at d currant stern guard. The ones with the boxed ammo instead of a clip. Only seen combi weapons at the moment.

 prpetros wrote:
Yeahhh stern guard . Interested in seeing if the standard bolters are the same at d currant stern guard. The ones with the boxed ammo instead of a clip. Only seen combi weapons at the moment.

all sternguard combiweapon i saw until now have the bolter part with drum magazine and according to the rumors the regular bolters have drum magazines too...

The pic last page showed Curveg Mags.

Combi includeed.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Loving that apparent Sternguard with Combi-Flamer.

That's a melta, not a flamer.

New sternguard will be good, though i just finished kitbashing some so doubt i'll spring for them. But the stalker, damn thats some dakka. Had zero success shooting anything down with whirly hyperios so those twin gatling autocannons look just the treat. The centurions look like they were designed by two different people not working in concert, like the subaru svx. Shame cos the idea is kinda cool and ive always loved assault drills. Those sure look better than the drill i made for my seige dread. Any news on what the ravenguard and thus by extension raptors might get as chapter powers?

Not sure why that posted twice sorry

 insaniak wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Loving that apparent Sternguard with Combi-Flamer.

That's a melta, not a flamer.

I blame the 16 hour shift Thanks for the correction, makes me even happier the combi-melta looks that damn good.

On the Tac squad it looks like 2 new pairs of legs, the 2 new guns, and a new Sgt. head.

Still looking.

The Dev pack is a nice bit and about time.

 TalonZahn wrote:
On the Tac squad it looks like 2 new pairs of legs, the 2 new guns, and a new Sgt. head.

Still looking.

The Dev pack is a nice bit and about time.

Sarge's chest plate is different from the current Errant pattern one as well.

First pic - 5 legs, Mk. 8 torso, aiming arms, mk.5/6 torso(s)
2nd pic - mk. 4 legs, mk.5 torsos, slightly different bolter poses.

Sternguard - all around awesome. I love those shoulderpads.

I'm really liking the mix of older armor marks in the set. Might have to pick up another one of the current set just to be able to mix and match better.

The newer legs seem to be in a more upright position than the older legs. I approve of this as it makes the model look better overall.

So when exactly did the last plastic tactical squad box come out? 2004?

And on that subject, anyone know where I can find info on when different 40k models were released?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So when exactly did the last plastic tactical squad box come out? 2004?

And on that subject, anyone know where I can find info on when different 40k models were released?

The box came out in '98 and was recut in '04.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So when exactly did the last plastic tactical squad box come out? 2004?

And on that subject, anyone know where I can find info on when different 40k models were released?

The box came out in '98 and was recut in '04.

recut? What did they change?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So when exactly did the last plastic tactical squad box come out? 2004?

The current marines were initially released for 3rd edition (1998). They were cast at that point on individual single-mini sprues that included the marine (legs, torso, head, arms, bolter) and a couple of accessories or a second head, and the box had the backpacks on a separate sprue.

They were re-sprued for 4th edition (so 2004), onto the current 5-man sprues, and an accessory sprue added that included basic sergeant bits, a flamer and a missile launcher.

The accessory sprue was then redone for 5th edition (2008) with a few different accessories and the melta and plasma guns added, amongst other things.

Is it me or is it strange that theses leaks seem to be drip fed. Apart from the obvious ones eg the vanguard box at was sold early.
All only showing bit of the larger picture. Reminds me of when GW use to have the sneak peeks on their website.

I'm a bit annoyed that marines get a new tac box and their evil brethren don't... but oh well!The kit looks nice, maybe I should join the Imperium?

So far, this release is looking great! Only duds seem to be the Centurions

So from what we know:

Current assault marine and devastator boxes staying the same?

Command squad box: I know there is talk of a big box with transport, do we think the current box is going bye bye?

Do we think there will be a new captain box?

Trying to see what I need to snatch up for my bits box.

So being a former xenos (Ork) -turned Space Marine player, I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing a new codex release since I started at the beginning of 5th.

Now with that, do you guys typically get the codex first, read the rules then buy models based on the rules? or do you guys; like to by the new models regardless of what the rules are?

I'm a budget minded gamer and typically only buy stuff that suits my playstyle/fluff (Salamanders in this case).

I'm guessing I should wait until after I see what is in the codex.....

Okay. The new Tactical box has a graviton gun instead of a flamer and the Sergeant is wearing correctly designed MkVIII armor instead of the incorrect design (no armored collar) in the current version. Anything else different? If not, I guess I can wait for bits sellers to start parting this stuff out.

 cyphertheory wrote:
another that just popped up

This guy looks pretty sweet. Might see how much the bits will cost and make Sternguard out of those!

 Mr Morden wrote:
- FW seems to be getting it right - looking at the redcent work on HH and the Adeptus Mechanicus - as noted the Contemptor is new - but could have always been there - the Centurions - just lazy, poor and horrible.............

Contemptors have always been there. They first showed up in the Heresy era Adeptus Titanicus supplement Space Marine in 1989:
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4001/space-marine

http://musingsofametalmind.blogspot.com/2011/07/what-crap-is-going-on-with-dreadnoughts.html

T

 NickTheButcher wrote:
So being a former xenos (Ork) -turned Space Marine player, I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing a new codex release since I started at the beginning of 5th.

Now with that, do you guys typically get the codex first, read the rules then buy models based on the rules? or do you guys; like to by the new models regardless of what the rules are?

I'm a budget minded gamer and typically only buy stuff that suits my playstyle/fluff (Salamanders in this case).

I'm guessing I should wait until after I see what is in the codex.....

No such thing as a former ork! You can sell the army and change your track but the username stays! I haven't been a "new" marine player since 3rd edition but I got the codex and my two troops and an HQ all in one purchase to cover the army basics. At the time, my FLGS only had two tables so the 40k group pretty much had to play group games of 2v2 or more per table so I just kind of watched how things fared for units I didn't own and whether their playstyle matched my own preferences.

 d-usa wrote:
So from what we know:

Current assault marine and devastator boxes staying the same?

Command squad box: I know there is talk of a big box with transport, do we think the current box is going bye bye?

Do we think there will be a new captain box?

Trying to see what I need to snatch up for my bits box.

i don't see any hint of the Captain and Honour Guard boxes going away...
i hope they stay around, as they both have great bits...

i'm liking the new Tacticals...
MKIV legs, upright MKVI legs, MKVIII torso without the grill, two new bolter arm poses that rock, plus more mohawks!!!
i am very happy...

cheers
jah

 NickTheButcher wrote:
So being a former xenos (Ork) -turned Space Marine player, I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing a new codex release since I started at the beginning of 5th.

Now with that, do you guys typically get the codex first, read the rules then buy models based on the rules? or do you guys; like to by the new models regardless of what the rules are?

I'm a budget minded gamer and typically only buy stuff that suits my playstyle/fluff (Salamanders in this case).

I'm guessing I should wait until after I see what is in the codex.....

I buy the Codex before any models generally but in this case I'll make an exception as the new plastic Sternguard and Tactical kits are too good to resist. The doubt in my mind that tells me Vanguards will be crap anyway though won over my desire to get them.

As for the Hunter/Stalker, I'll decide upon getting the Codex and reading the online consensus. Unless Termie Tubbies with Gravitron Cannons turn out to be excellent MC/Termie killers I won't be getting them, full stop.

I'll definitely get one of each of the new infantry boxes for bits. After that I will have to see what I can build to fit the Raven Guard fluff.

Is there any chance we could get the first post in this thread updated regularly with any new photos that are released?

 NickTheButcher wrote:
So being a former xenos (Ork) -turned Space Marine player, I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing a new codex release since I started at the beginning of 5th.

Now with that, do you guys typically get the codex first, read the rules then buy models based on the rules? or do you guys; like to by the new models regardless of what the rules are?

I'm a budget minded gamer and typically only buy stuff that suits my playstyle/fluff (Salamanders in this case).

I'm guessing I should wait until after I see what is in the codex.....

You're always safe buying dudes in power armor si ce they can generally be used has a half dozen or more choices in the army.

Had to try this out. The faceplate is probably slightly bigger than shown here...

Can't make up my mind if its cool, or an outright abortion. It's certainly doable. Opinions?



EDIT: Large sarcophagus:

 cyphertheory wrote:
Found these on /tg/ not sure if they made it here

New Mk6 legs and Mk4? New MK8 torso. I love the aiming bolter. It's about damn time someone actually [i]aimed[/]\i] their damn weapon.

However, I am very disappointed in the lack of new helmets. But the Vanguard kit did have that cool MK6 helmet with bionic eye. Maybe the Sternguard box will have better armor variants.

rabid stoat wrote:

Had to try this out. The faceplate is probably slightly bigger than shown here...

Can't make up my mind if its cool, or an outright abortion. It's certainly doable. Opinions?



EDIT: Large sarcophagus:

i approve of this.

 gigasnail wrote:

rabid stoat wrote:

Had to try this out. The faceplate is probably slightly bigger than shown here...

Can't make up my mind if its cool, or an outright abortion. It's certainly doable. Opinions?



EDIT: Large sarcophagus:

i approve of this.

Yeah, the second one is on to something I think. Not sure the sarcophagus itself works, but the full armour...

ok ... I have some DC Dread sarc's that I could end up doing that with ... most excellent conversion

rabid stoat wrote:

Had to try this out. The faceplate is probably slightly bigger than shown here...

Can't make up my mind if its cool, or an outright abortion. It's certainly doable. Opinions?



EDIT: Large sarcophagus:

As a huge Battletech fan I approve of this

As for the codex I am looking forward to new rules for White Scars. Nothing says awesome like Genghis Khan in SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!!!!

 jah-joshua wrote:


i don't see any hint of the Captain and Honour Guard boxes going away...
i hope they stay around, as they both have great bits...

i'm liking the new Tacticals...
MKIV legs, upright MKVI legs, MKVIII torso without the grill, two new bolter arm poses that rock, plus more mohawks!!!
i am very happy...

cheers
jah

yeah the aiming arms and the extra low slung arms are great... I'm a sucker for tactical and stern so this release is good for me...And the Sternguard look ornate… that head full of hair is refreshing in the grimdark baldies world.
Very cool. I’m even dusting of the old WIPs in the top of the closet… time for that next DIY chapter…
but something really makes me want to do Crimson fist again… so torn…

No pics of the rumored reloading tac marine? I was really looking forward to seeing that, it looks really cool in my head.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
No pics of the rumored reloading tac marine? I was really looking forward to seeing that, it looks really cool in my head.

Tiny pic courtesy of our friends on /tg/.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
No pics of the rumored reloading tac marine? I was really looking forward to seeing that, it looks really cool in my head.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1404016#post1404016

rabid stoat wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
No pics of the rumored reloading tac marine? I was really looking forward to seeing that, it looks really cool in my head.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1404016#post1404016

also, a couple pages back, found this gem

Heresy-Online C:SM Rumor thread, pg 42 wrote:-Generic characters will be able to purchase alternate Combat Tactics options to represent a wider range of Chapters/companies.
-Combat Tactics for the following Chapters: Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. They have two special rules per choice.

Finally, My Blood Ravens are unique!!! And the mods should add the new pic to the first page.

I hope there are chapter tactics to represent the Blood Angels.. since my current codex sure as heck isn't playable :p

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope there are chapter tactics to represent the Blood Angels.. since my current codex sure as heck isn't playable :p

As long as you know that isn't happening, everything is fine.

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope there are chapter tactics to represent the Blood Angels.. since my current codex sure as heck isn't playable :p

What's wrong with Blood Angels? Is that a general complaint about assault or something specific about the army? If they do indeed have a trait system, it's quite likely that there will be some close combat options.

Crazyterran wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope there are chapter tactics to represent the Blood Angels.. since my current codex sure as heck isn't playable :p

As long as you know that isn't happening, everything is fine.

This would be funny if it wasn't so true

The subtle joke is that pretty much anything would be an improvement. If the only benefit to chapter tactics is "Your HQ choice gets to wear a funny hat" then that would be more useful!

Can't say the centurions look interesting at all but cheaper vanguard and better troops all seem solid.

 warboss wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
I hope there are chapter tactics to represent the Blood Angels.. since my current codex sure as heck isn't playable :p

What's wrong with Blood Angels? Is that a general complaint about assault or something specific about the army? If they do indeed have a trait system, it's quite likely that there will be some close combat options.

*sigh* okay:

Furious Charged: nerfed

Feel No Pain: nerfed

Razorbacks (and vehicles in general): nerfed

Mephiston and Sanguinor: nerfed

Dante: nerfed (you give a character who's all about agility an unwieldy weapon? seriously?)

Assaults: nerfed

Power weapons: nerfed

PF Sergeants: nerfed (thanks to challenges and precision shots)

Stormravens: can now be taken by Vanilla marines and GK

Need I go on? 6th nerfed everything that made BA decent, or in the case of the SR, gave it to the other chapters.

 insaniak wrote:

 VoidAngel wrote:

No, it's perfectly acceptable for well-sculpted units with good rules to have always been there.

If we seem biased against fugly models with terrible rules (terrible in the sense of balance or utility, not uber-Wardesque-killiness) - we are. Give me something that LOOKS like it could have always been there (Contemptor). Give me something that was referenced on page 67 of the Second Edition rulebook, once. "What, those heretical little monkeys on Mars finally adapted the Hrud fusil into a blessed instrument of the Emprah's divine will? I'll take 10,000."

Something like that. Not, "Hey - the studio vomited again - pay up!"

What a model looks liKe, and how that unit fits into the background are two completely separate issues.

I understand your point; but the aesthetics are part of what helps determine "fit". If Chaos stuff started to incorporate giant fluffy pinky bunnies that spat caustic lemonade because, well, Chaos...it wouldn't sit well. It breaks the aesthetic, even if there's some justification for it. The Centurion suits would go over better, despite their sudden appearance, if they were beautiful models that "looked right". I have no doubt in my mind. And models that are ugly, abusive, AND new - naturally garner a lot of hate (*cough* Dreadknight *cough*).

Imagine if they'd inserted plastic Contemptors. I don't think there'd have been any complaints. Probably much rejoicing.

 Plokoone wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
No pics of the rumored reloading tac marine? I was really looking forward to seeing that, it looks really cool in my head.

Tiny pic courtesy of our friends on /tg/.

Sweet Jebus yes, a Crimson Fist in the new Art!!! Oh, let us hope that Pedro's boys get some love in the new dex

Right a quick question as I am slightly underwhelmed by the new tactical. A lot of what I see looks like rehashed old kit? Or is it just me? Also that errant armour looks worse than the old plastic one in the original kit that has now disappeared.

Stern guard looked awesome however

 Redemption wrote:
- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.

I hope this will fix problems in the Dark Angels codex such as no upgrades to basic master crafted weapons (just special ones) and more access to SM stuff such as the Thunderfire Cannon and other flyers.

I love the Centurions. Great look and look to be a great battlefield addition. Will have to look into them when released.

irwit wrote:
Right a quick question as I am slightly underwhelmed by the new tactical. A lot of what I see looks like rehashed old kit? Or is it just me?

Yes, there was no reason to assume that the Tacticals would receive all new sculpts, since for the most part they're fine as is. They have just swapped some variant parts in and added some extras, by the look of it.

Also that errant armour looks worse than the old plastic one in the original kit that has now disappeared.

The old kit never had proper Errant armour. There was a torso on the Marine sprue with the Errant-style armoured belly cables but lacking the neck ring, and a torso front on the accessory sprue that had the neck ring but had Mk7-style belly cables.

If they roll BT into the SM dex, does that mean you can cherry pick allies from the allies matrix using whichever you want?

 WarAngel wrote:
I hope this will fix problems in the Dark Angels codex such as no upgrades to basic master crafted weapons (just special ones) and more access to SM stuff such as the Thunderfire Cannon and other flyers.

It won't add anything to Dark Angels, as they already have their own Codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:
If they roll BT into the SM dex, does that mean you can cherry pick allies from the allies matrix using whichever you want?

If you're using Codex: Space Marines, you would be bound by the allies available to Codex: Space Marines.

 insaniak wrote:

 WarAngel wrote:
I hope this will fix problems in the Dark Angels codex such as no upgrades to basic master crafted weapons (just special ones) and more access to SM stuff such as the Thunderfire Cannon and other flyers.

It won't add anything to Dark Angels, as they already have their own Codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:
If they roll BT into the SM dex, does that mean you can cherry pick allies from the allies matrix using whichever you want?

If you're using Codex: Space Marines, you would be bound by the allies available to Codex: Space Marines.

Couldn't the Black Templar specific chapter tactics change that though. Similar to the Farsight Enclave rules.

Yes, of course. They could also have a completely revised Allies table in the codex for all we know.

I just saw those Centurions for the first time 5 minutes ago in another thread and I'm stunned, just stunned.

They look so stupid.

Just stunned...

My vote is not out yet on centurions... I'll have to wait and see the rules.

 Plokoone wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
No pics of the rumored reloading tac marine? I was really looking forward to seeing that, it looks really cool in my head.

Tiny pic courtesy of our friends on /tg/.

You, my beautiful Space Marine are one sexy toy soldier and I want to touch and love you...

Hum, sorry, but this release just keeps getting better and better with every new pic

Oh man why did they have to make the centurions and new tanks so f*****g hideous! Never seen uglier minis! I've always been a great marine fan and was really looking forward to this, but seems like I have to go with FW figs instead. No centurions or new GW tanks for me =( *shudder*

From Bolter & Chainsword

Scarbrand wrote:
Oh man why did they have to make the centurions and new tanks so f*****g hideous! Never seen uglier minis! I've always been a great marine fan and was really looking forward to this, but seems like I have to go with FW figs instead. No centurions or new GW tanks for me =( *shudder*

Different flavours for different folks.

I'm indifferent to the Cents but there seems to be a 70/30 split agreeing with you that they are terrible. However the vast majority (or at least the most vocal minority) seem to be saying the Tanks are awesomesauce, and for that I agree.

In any case, FW is there for your needs, buy up and proxy to your hearts content.

The pic of centurion from behind is interesting, I like how you can see the pilot and that there are a lot of structures. I still can't figure out where his arms are, and of course I'd prefer if a model would look good from front instead of back. I wonder if the whole front leg armour is a separate piece and how would it look if you just don't put it on?

Them are some sexy sternguard!
Mk VIII legs with hip flappies and a sweet Mk VIII torso.
And some fancy pants Mk IV legs too!

Oh, and proof positive of the rear of the Centurions, with little Admech logos and all, awesome!

BTW, at this point it seems pretty clear to me that it is GW intentionally leaking these photos. There is no way genuine random leaks would produce this result. We are seeing cropped pictures of individual models dropping one by one. With a genuine leak we would get blurry pics snapped hastily if the leaker didn't have unlimited access to a copy of WD, or just complete pictures of everything if they had.

Sweet pictures! That said, I think GW made a big mistake with the latest Captain model. I really don't see any reason for someone to buy it when the generic Commander box exists and can be combined with the new Sternguard box to make awesome personalized blinged-out models. For single-pose models to be worth it, they IMO have to offer something really unique and cool that you can't get elsewhere, and the generic Captain really doesn't do that.

 Crimson wrote:
From Bolter & Chainsword

Those Sternguard. I want lots. Like a million. That hand on the sword pommel fellow. I want him ground into a fine powder and inject into my veins.

 Crimson wrote:
BTW, at this point it seems pretty clear to me that it is GW intentionally leaking these photos. There is no way genuine random leaks would produce this result. We are seeing cropped pictures of individual models dropping one by one. With a genuine leak we would get blurry pics snapped hastily if the leaker didn't have unlimited access to a copy of WD, or just complete pictures of everything if they had.

But why wouldn't they do it on their own site? Hell, I remember Forge World did some image "teasing" some time ago, when they were releasing "puzzle-parts" to build hype for one of their new models.

Not to mention that today (!) is Games Day Germany, with thousands of GW-customers and a few hundred GW-staffers (incl. guys from Nottingham) going about pretending to know nothing about the new Space Marines.

 Crimson wrote:
BTW, at this point it seems pretty clear to me that it is GW intentionally leaking these photos. There is no way genuine random leaks would produce this result. We are seeing cropped pictures of individual models dropping one by one. With a genuine leak we would get blurry pics snapped hastily if the leaker didn't have unlimited access to a copy of WD, or just complete pictures of everything if they had.

I've been saying this all the time

And also, don't this links spoil the point of GW news and rumour block? We've seen most of this release and there's still 2/3 of the month left.

JeneralJoe117 wrote:
And also, don't this links spoil the point of GW news and rumour block? We've seen most of this release and there's still 2/3 of the month left.

Remember these are Spess Mehreens, GW always gives them preferential treatment.

Gaaak, can anyone upload to the gallery and post the new pics? Help a work-blocked brother!

Pretty please with sugar lips on top?

 Zweischneid wrote:

But why wouldn't they do it on their own site? Hell, I remember Forge World did some image "teasing" some time ago, when they were releasing "puzzle-parts" to build hype for one of their new models.

Because this way we spent our days reading all these rumour threads in hope of new picture an getting hyped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


So apparently pilot's arms are not visible. I'm not sure I'm satisfied with that explanation.

 Kingsley wrote:
I really don't see any reason for someone to buy it when the generic Commander box exists...

You're assuming that the generic commander box will still exist after the new codex drops...

If all of his options can be found in the Sternguard box, I can easily see them just dropping that kit. Players will either buy the new plastic Captain, or build their own out of the Sternguard box.

 insaniak wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
I really don't see any reason for someone to buy it when the generic Commander box exists...

You're assuming that the generic commander box will still exist after the new codex drops...

If all of his options can be found in the Sternguard box, I can easily see them just dropping that kit. Players will either buy the new plastic Captain, or build their own out of the Sternguard box.

Maybe if the new Command Squad rumor is true, the captain will be included there...

Right gents, i'm not really up to date on either faction, but is it just me or is that Sternguard weapon really Necron?

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
BTW, at this point it seems pretty clear to me that it is GW intentionally leaking these photos. There is no way genuine random leaks would produce this result. We are seeing cropped pictures of individual models dropping one by one. With a genuine leak we would get blurry pics snapped hastily if the leaker didn't have unlimited access to a copy of WD, or just complete pictures of everything if they had.

But why wouldn't they do it on their own site? Hell, I remember Forge World did some image "teasing" some time ago, when they were releasing "puzzle-parts" to build hype for one of their new models.

Not to mention that today (!) is Games Day Germany, with thousands of GW-customers and a few hundred GW-staffers (incl. guys from Nottingham) going about pretending to know nothing about the new Space Marines.

Exactly. I am going to follow the incoming reports and pics of it closely.
This time they sent Johnson and Kelly plus Vetock to us and I can't imagine anything the first two could talk about without anyone asking of upcoming "known" releases. Vetock may have the lizardmen as "his" subject.
We'll see in the evening....

The point Crimson has, those pics are free of text. All of them good and close shots. No way to identify the WD, especially the region it is from ( language ). The unboxed plastic Vanguard and the box art however could be unintended leaks.

We currently know September is the month of GD UK, we know the Black Legion supplement is a September release.

None of the pics had a WD cover or text, so any guess on September = release isn't confirmed yet, IMO.

 Crimson wrote:
From Bolter & Chainsword

Those Sterngaurd are absolutely gorgeous.

Its good to see that they give some indication to where the space marine that is piloting the suit is situated, makes the stubby looking legs and weird proportions a bit easier to bear

STERNGUARD=EPIC WIN. Those models are beautiful.
CENTURIONS=EPIC FAIL. The concept is good but the models are horrendous.
Tactical squad is ok but I would have liked them to have been a bit more dynamic, running legs etc. Nothing that cannot be sorted by mix and match with other units. Perhapse some of the legs and detail from the vanguard box set which is BEAUTIFUL. The new characters are also nice and the tank is ........... just another Rhino variant which is also in keeping.

I think I might have to start a new space marine army

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

JeneralJoe117 wrote:
And also, don't this links spoil the point of GW news and rumour block? We've seen most of this release and there's still 2/3 of the month left.

Remember these are Spess Mehreens, GW always gives them preferential treatment.

As seen by the fact they're getting three new plastic troop boxes, one MCish box, one vehicle box, and three HQ sprues compared to the Xeno releases' 1 troop, one MC, one flyer, one HQ.


Really wanted new crisis suits dangit...

Welp. Templars are being rolled into the C:SM and I am angry and sad.

RogueRegault wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

JeneralJoe117 wrote:
And also, don't this links spoil the point of GW news and rumour block? We've seen most of this release and there's still 2/3 of the month left.

Remember these are Spess Mehreens, GW always gives them preferential treatment.

As seen by the fact they're getting three new plastic troop boxes, one MCish box, one vehicle box, and three HQ sprues compared to the Xeno releases' 1 troop, one MC, one flyer, one HQ.


Really wanted new crisis suits dangit...

And thats not even considering the new finecast models that came out with Apoc...

Ninjakinshu wrote:
Welp. Templars are being rolled into the C:SM and I am angry and sad.

You can always refuse to use half the units in the new book and leave about 10% of your points unspent to simulate the old style BT experience.

Sternguard are a bit late for me to use them as the actual unit...I just finished converting my 20th.

However, I'll still be getting a box or two of them to convert some nifty-looking sergeants, count-as SCs, etc. Looks like they and the Vanguards will be kitbash goldmines.

 Crimson wrote:

Are these newer, smaller more practical powerfists? The left hand is a little bigger, but still looks like he could change a mag etc.

If so I approve!

Those Sternguard look pretty amazing overall, though I have to say that I always preferred combi-weapons where the special weapon is under the bolter barrel instead on top of it.

If only GW had done this for CSM, those Tacticals and Sternguard are amazing especially the Tac squad I love everything about them and they don't look so different that they won't blend in well with the current set. Sternguard look great to glad to see there starting to introduce helmet crests, however the pics look of a suspiciously good quality. I think when it comes down to it GW tend to be good at doing kits that already have an established idea it's just the new stuff that they tend to screw up.
Anyway well done GW.

ids1984 wrote:

Are these newer, smaller more practical powerfists? The left hand is a little bigger, but still looks like he could change a mag etc.

No, it's just normal hand and perspective.

ids1984 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Are these newer, smaller more practical powerfists? The left hand is a little bigger, but still looks like he could change a mag etc.

If so I approve!

I think it's just the perspective. It's probably the same size as every other hand.
The smaller powerfists are probably still large enough to distinguish as powerfists, just not quite as large as the older ones.

What happens if someone at GD Germany shows Jervis and the like these pics and asks about them?

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 Plokoone wrote:

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
No pics of the rumored reloading tac marine? I was really looking forward to seeing that, it looks really cool in my head.

Tiny pic courtesy of our friends on /tg/.

You, my beautiful Space Marine are one sexy toy soldier and I want to touch and love you...

Hum, sorry, but this release just keeps getting better and better with every new pic

really? hate to burst your bubble but it looks more or less exactly the same as the tactical marines we've had for 10+ years...
not that there's anything wrong with that.

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
What happens if someone at GD Germany shows Jervis and the like these pics and asks about them?

He'll probably say he can't discuss them or confirm their authenticity, or something dull.

 Crimson wrote:

EPIC WIN!!! I want 9 of sternguard to drop pod with kantor... I want them to obliterate a full team of broadside with plasma weapons and grav weapons saying... "cmon... intercept these!!!"
I am mainly a DA player but i own a small army of CF too that will grow bigger with the new codex...

However... if the arms of the marine are crossed ovetr the chest inside the centurion how the hell he controls the suit???

 Ramell wrote:

ids1984 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Are these newer, smaller more practical powerfists? The left hand is a little bigger, but still looks like he could change a mag etc.

If so I approve!

I think it's just the perspective. It's probably the same size as every other hand.
The smaller powerfists are probably still large enough to distinguish as powerfists, just not quite as large as the older ones.

It may be perspective and it maybe on this pic too, but the left looks bigger here too.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
What happens if someone at GD Germany shows Jervis and the like these pics and asks about them?

It wouldn't suprise me if these have leaked so early because of GD Germany, either way hopefully they will ride with it rather than ignore their existence!

SG looks sweet. I'm not sure about the Centurion pilot explanation, I think it would be better if the pilot had motorcycle-style seat in the back.. I've seen a better execution of the "heavy armor with pilot in the back" somewhere.

edit: Yeah, in Dust:

Centurions:

Interesting, but a lot of questions come to mind…..

Are the things on either side of the chest plate additional weapons?

How are these guys getting across the table, foot slogging?

Can they ride in anything?



Stalker/Hunter:

This thing looks awesome!!!! I guess its primary role is AA?!?.

Will, I wonder if Chaos can use it?



New Vets/Command:

Finecast or plastic?

New vets are plastic.
Centurions walk, yes, and those are indeed weapons next to them.

No, Chaos won't get a Stalker/Hunter

I'm very much liking a lot about the Sternguard. I do have a couple of quibbles:

Loin cloths for everyone,
Crux's with gems in the middle (they're too damn small to paint properly!)
Scroll work everywhere.

Now those are complaints I've had for the previous metal veterans and various other space marine models too so please no one think I'm hating on the new release for the sake of it. There is an awful lot to like about what we're seeing here too:
- range of armour marks
- more plastic combi-weapons
- hand on sword pommel!
- awesome looking shoulder pads

 BrotherTri wrote:
Centurions:

Interesting, but a lot of questions come to mind…..

Are the things on either side of the chest plate additional weapons?

How are these guys getting across the table, foot slogging?

Can they ride in anything?

From the earlier Centurion Rules Leak (still rumours... bring salt)

Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne [sic!] bolters.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2013/8/10/f0fafa51ee5a171fa047d891b349dd91_11155.jpg__thumb This stern-guard guy here


Reminds me of the guy in the blood quest comic. With blood angel arm pads and a cape i think he would work.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/77/2382888-leo.jpg

Sternguard appear to be epic. Hopefully some more pics will surface soon. Love the plasma pistol with the ceramite cover overr the plasna "coils/grills/whatever", the marine holding it looks like a badass too. The robe detail is fantastic. Surely another sign of imminent arrival of Sisters of Battle plastics?


I think after reading the explanation and seeing the back detail picks of those suits they make a lot more sense.

I like every single model we have seen so far, even the centurions, better start saving

I'm still trying to wrap my head around all these rumors, I just started up a BT army and didn't buy the codex for obvious reasons.

Some concerns.

- Going from a full codex to being rolled into C:SM
- GW releasing new Sternguard Kits, BT dont use sternguard. Could the roll in and the more "available" unit options be just more cash flow $$, I would hate to think they got rolled into C:SM to sell kits they don't use and could this affect the fluff.
- All the chapters being listed are all 1st founding, where as BT are not I just hope they get as much attention as the other chapters.
- It would piss me off do buy the C:SM to play this new army to find the BT entry very limited and then have to buy a supplement for BT in a few months time.


Then again there's still rumors of BT getting their own codex all together.. and these rumors saying they aren't and its confirmed.

On some sort of positive note..

- We still get the EC
- We still get crusader squads and the exclusive LR variant

Still no MK VI torso and no non-MK VII backpacks.
That's a pity, but a self-loading ML, aiming arms, new legs, better sgt torso are very welcome additions.
What I'd love to see happen is that all bald heads came standard with a mohawk. If you don't want the mo then cut it off, otherwise leave them on.
Interesting that one of the heads is like sgt Telion.

I bought the MKIII Iron armor pattern for my BT so the tactical squad upgrades im not fussed about, however the weapons from the kits im sure will be nice.

I think the inclusion of Black Templars in the main book really does shoot down the possibility of them getting their own codex.

Supplement? Maybe, but I don't think the rumours are pointing to that.

Osiris154 wrote:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around all these rumors, I just started up a BT army and didn't buy the codex for obvious reasons.

Some concerns.

- Going from a full codex to being rolled into C:SM
- GW releasing new Sternguard Kits, BT dont use sternguard. Could the roll in and the more "available" unit options be just more cash flow $$, I would hate to think they got rolled into C:SM to sell kits they don't use and could this affect the fluff.
- All the chapters being listed are all 1st founding, where as BT are not I just hope they get as much attention as the other chapters.
- It would piss me off do buy the C:SM to play this new army to find the BT entry very limited and then have to buy a supplement for BT in a few months time.


Then again there's still rumors of BT getting their own codex all together.. and these rumors saying they aren't and its confirmed.

On some sort of positive note..

- We still get the EC
- We still get crusader squads and the exclusive LR variant

The Crusader isn't exclusive. It's just that you can take them as DTs for your Crusader Squads.

And yes, the Black Templar have been rolled into Codex: Space Marines, with a possible supplement down the line.

@ ~Crazyterran

Thanks for clearing that up about the crusader. However even the possibility of a supplement really annoys me, especially after being rolled into the C:SM and how bs the Iyanden supplement was. It just screams
greed on GW's part. Roll them into the codex and do it right, or make a supplement and do it right, not both.

September can't arrive fast enough.

Osiris154 wrote:
Some concerns.

- Going from a full codex to being rolled into C:SM
- GW releasing new Sternguard Kits, BT dont use sternguard. Could the roll in and the more "available" unit options be just more cash flow $$, I would hate to think they got rolled into C:SM to sell kits they don't use and could this affect the fluff.
- All the chapters being listed are all 1st founding, where as BT are not I just hope they get as much attention as the other chapters.
- It would piss me off do buy the C:SM to play this new army to find the BT entry very limited and then have to buy a supplement for BT in a few months time.

Sword Brethren were just a rename of the veteran squads in 4th. Only change was no sergeant and a built in 1 pt crusader seal. Now you may just have "shooty" sword brethren and "assaulty" sword brethren.
From the sounds of it, there are 7 "main" chapters in the book- 6 first founding and the BT. And Templars are in better shape than many of the first founding chapters- UM have 6 SCs, BT have 3, IF, CF, RG, WS, Sallies all have 1 each, Iron Hands have none.

Is this codex priced the same as the others or does it cost more because its bigger?

Edit: I also really hope to see more SC's or special rules for each chapter listed in the codex, just to really individualise peoples armies further.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

Osiris154 wrote:
Some concerns.

- Going from a full codex to being rolled into C:SM
- GW releasing new Sternguard Kits, BT dont use sternguard. Could the roll in and the more "available" unit options be just more cash flow $$, I would hate to think they got rolled into C:SM to sell kits they don't use and could this affect the fluff.
- All the chapters being listed are all 1st founding, where as BT are not I just hope they get as much attention as the other chapters.
- It would piss me off do buy the C:SM to play this new army to find the BT entry very limited and then have to buy a supplement for BT in a few months time.

Sword Brethren were just a rename of the veteran squads in 4th. Only change was no sergeant and a built in 1 pt crusader seal. Now you may just have "shooty" sword brethren and "assaulty" sword brethren.
From the sounds of it, there are 7 "main" chapters in the book- 6 first founding and the BT. And Templars are in better shape than many of the first founding chapters- UM have 6 SCs, BT have 3, IF, CF, RG, WS, Sallies all have 1 each, Iron Hands have none.

Yeah true.

I suppose if we got the option to upgrade the vets to SB with a bonus or just buy them as normal with optional BT like upgrades that would be cool either way. I would still definetly go more towards the assault side of the vets given the fact BT
in their fluff are not really a shooting army. They kind of remind me of warriors who defended Jerusalem in the movie Kingdom of Heaven, smart and organised but eager for combat

Lets not forget that the BA can also take the LR and it's varients and DTs. But they won't be getting rolled into the the new SM codex. I think the fact that one of the LE covers for the new 'dex is a BT cover pretty much sums up the future for the BT as an independant codex. Will they get a supplement? Maybe, but the onlt SM sup. I have even heard rumors about is Ultramarines. Which is kind of like doing a Black Legion sup. for chaos. (Oh wait...)

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Lets not forget that the BA can also take the LR and it's varients and DTs. But they won't be getting rolled into the the new SM codex. I think the fact that one of the LE covers for the new 'dex is a BT cover pretty much sums up the future for the BT as an independant codex. Will they get a supplement? Maybe, but the onlt SM sup. I have even heard rumors about is Ultramarines. Which is kind of like doing a Black Legion sup. for chaos. (Oh wait...)

It's been all but confirmed 100% that there will be more than one supplement for certain codices.

There's been White Scars and Ultramarines rumors for Codex: Space Marines, as well as Black Templar.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

Osiris154 wrote:
Some concerns.

- Going from a full codex to being rolled into C:SM
- GW releasing new Sternguard Kits, BT dont use sternguard. Could the roll in and the more "available" unit options be just more cash flow $$, I would hate to think they got rolled into C:SM to sell kits they don't use and could this affect the fluff.
- All the chapters being listed are all 1st founding, where as BT are not I just hope they get as much attention as the other chapters.
- It would piss me off do buy the C:SM to play this new army to find the BT entry very limited and then have to buy a supplement for BT in a few months time.

Sword Brethren were just a rename of the veteran squads in 4th. Only change was no sergeant and a built in 1 pt crusader seal. Now you may just have "shooty" sword brethren and "assaulty" sword brethren.
From the sounds of it, there are 7 "main" chapters in the book- 6 first founding and the BT. And Templars are in better shape than many of the first founding chapters- UM have 6 SCs, BT have 3, IF, CF, RG, WS, Sallies all have 1 each, Iron Hands have none.

Wait, are you talking about the new codex or the current one with regards to SC numbers?

White scars would be cool, then I would finally have a reason to build the rest of my bikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wasn't the old BT codex really small compaired to other codex anyway? Think of it this way, C:SM is really just a huge BT codex with a bunch of shiny new toys.

Crazyterran wrote:

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Lets not forget that the BA can also take the LR and it's varients and DTs. But they won't be getting rolled into the the new SM codex. I think the fact that one of the LE covers for the new 'dex is a BT cover pretty much sums up the future for the BT as an independant codex. Will they get a supplement? Maybe, but the onlt SM sup. I have even heard rumors about is Ultramarines. Which is kind of like doing a Black Legion sup. for chaos. (Oh wait...)

It's been all but confirmed 100% that there will be more than one supplement for certain codices.

There's been White Scars and Ultramarines rumors for Codex: Space Marines, as well as Black Templar.

100% confirmed??
I doubt this.


Black Legion. 100% yes. Cause GW says so.

Codex Space Marine supplements?
We don't have a codex Space marine leak, but a WD... ( GW ? )

You see, a list of upcoming digital products, would show supplements . Is there one beyond 7th Sept. ?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Imperial Deceit wrote:




Wasn't the old BT codex really small compaired to other codex anyway? Think of it this way, C:SM is really just a huge BT codex with a bunch of shiny new toys.

Tyranids dex : 64 pages
BT dex : 64 pages

The codices got bigger from 3rd ed onwards. 3rd and some 4th ed are 64 pages. Increased to 90 pages, than 104.

I must be thinking of something else, I just remember picking one up and thinking "This is a really thin codex"

 1hadhq wrote:


100% confirmed??
I doubt this.

Well, the Tau supplement says something like "you can only use 1 supplement at a time," implying there will be multiples for the same Codex eventually.

 1hadhq wrote:

The codices got bigger from 3rd ed onwards. 3rd and some 4th ed are 64 pages. Increased to 90 pages, than 104.

Well, they shrank immensely from 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition. Early 3rd Ed Codexes were 24 pages. They eventually fixed that later in 3rd.

In the 2nd, they were all nice and big.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
BTW, at this point it seems pretty clear to me that it is GW intentionally leaking these photos. There is no way genuine random leaks would produce this result. We are seeing cropped pictures of individual models dropping one by one. With a genuine leak we would get blurry pics snapped hastily if the leaker didn't have unlimited access to a copy of WD, or just complete pictures of everything if they had.

But why wouldn't they do it on their own site? Hell, I remember Forge World did some image "teasing" some time ago, when they were releasing "puzzle-parts" to build hype for one of their new models.

Because leaked images garner more attention than legitimately posted previews.

The fact that they are "leaked" makes them all the more interesting to people. It is becoming standard fare in the video game world for companies to leak images, etc before an actual reveal.

Viral marketing has proven to be extreamly cost effective. Why spend x amount of money to run a full advertising campaign when you can just "leak" rumors and images and let people spread it around for you? The same people who also happen to be the target audiance. What's amazing is that GW may have jumped on this bandwagon, they always seemed a little behind the curve from a business perspective.

 dienekes96 wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:

The codices got bigger from 3rd ed onwards. 3rd and some 4th ed are 64 pages. Increased to 90 pages, than 104.

Well, they shrank immensely from 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition. Early 3rd Ed Codexes were 24 pages. They eventually fixed that later in 3rd.

In the 2nd, they were all nice and big.

Joined the realm of 40k in 3rd.
But I own an Angels of death dex ( 110+ pages ).
Early 3d codex space marine is 64 pages, the supplement to specialize towards SW or DA or BA is the small 24 pager youre thinking of?

I think the fact we have images of everything now is testament to GW leaking them. They were right to start on the hardest to accept models and the backlash meant they didn't leave us hanging on that potential sour note for too long.

Sternguard and Vanguard make up for anything

 Davylove21 wrote:
I think the fact we have images of everything now is testament to GW leaking them. They were right to start on the hardest to accept models and the backlash meant they didn't leave us hanging on that potential sour note for too long.

Sternguard and Vanguard make up for anything

It's a conspiracy! Quick someone phone Jason Bourne.

Agreed, the Vet squads look fantastic. Now it may just be the picture but does the Sternguard Sgt. have a combi-pistol or is that supposed to be a new plasma pistol?

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Viral marketing has proven to be extreamly cost effective. Why spend x amount of money to run a full advertising campaign when you can just "leak" rumors and images and let people spread it around for you? The same people who also happen to be the target audiance. What's amazing is that GW may have jumped on this bandwagon, they always seemed a little behind the curve from a business perspective.

I always love how WotC leaks their stuff.
They send cards to magazines, big websites/communities and blogs so they can write columns about them.
It's basically free advertising and the community sees this as a big "thank you for supporting us!".

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Viral marketing has proven to be extreamly cost effective. Why spend x amount of money to run a full advertising campaign when you can just "leak" rumors and images and let people spread it around for you? The same people who also happen to be the target audiance. What's amazing is that GW may have jumped on this bandwagon, they always seemed a little behind the curve from a business perspective.

If I remember correctly GW hired an ad company that specializes in viral marketing a couple of years ago...maybe this is their work?

 Davylove21 wrote:


Sternguard and Vanguard make up for anything

They ease the pain of the tubbies

And Tacticals redone is also a plus.

 1hadhq wrote:

 Davylove21 wrote:


Sternguard and Vanguard make up for anything

They ease the pain of the tubbies

And Tacticals redone is also a plus.

Centurions cause me no pain, but then again I actually like them.

I think more people will eventually warm up to them once they get a chance to see more details about them than just that static front shot.

I like the Centurions, I was thinking about converting some to Mega Nobz... but then I saw the rear picture of them and now I think with the crouched legs that the Orks have, it would be too hard to create..

I wish that C:SM was getting a real MC instead of the Centurions. Now don’t get me wrong, I like them as a concept, however I don’t see them being MCs (especially sense they are in squads), and there are some great options in the fluff for MCs that haven’t been seen yet. Although a lot of it is Mechanicus, which may suit IG better. Or write a Codex: Mechanicus. You could have Dan Abbnet write the fluff. There are so many options that already exist that did not warrant a history rewrite. However it remains to be seen what really does change in C:SM.

 VoidAngel wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The thing I think a lot of people overlook is that the 40k background is a setting, not an ongoing story. Sometimes the 'current' point advances slightly, and sometimes the focus moves back a little.

But what this means for new units is that they have to be inserted somewhere. Without an advancing story line, anything you want to add has to be retrospectively inserted into existing background.

Each new codex release is not an advance in the story line. It is a revision of the previous version. And in that context, it is perfectly acceptable for a new unit to have 'always' been there.

No, it's perfectly acceptable for well-sculpted units with good rules to have always been there.

If we seem biased against fugly models with terrible rules (terrible in the sense of balance or utility, not uber-Wardesque-killiness) - we are. Give me something that LOOKS like it could have always been there (Contemptor). Give me something that was referenced on page 67 of the Second Edition rulebook, once. "What, those heretical little monkeys on Mars finally adapted the Hrud fusil into a blessed instrument of the Emprah's divine will? I'll take 10,000."

Something like that. Not, "Hey - the studio vomited again - pay up!"

The Helturkey got much grief prior to the CSM codex release, probably more than the Centurions are getting now. Rules come out, people see how powerful it is, and then all of a sudden, virtually every listed CSM army on Dakka has at least one. Had GW put one more point of AV and one more point of WS and BS on both of the new walker daemon engines, Dinobots would be there alongside the turkey.

Sadly, for the majority of US gamers (of which I am one), rules (especially broken OP rules, as long as they are in favor of the army) will always trump model quality. It just doesn't matter how fugly or out of place a model is, if its has powerful game rules, it'll be a hit. If an ugly model has good rules, we will find small things about the model that we like (oh, that icon is cool, I like that helmet), and suddenly, the model has "grown on us", and before you know it, we have 3 boxes waiting to be put together. And those beautiful models with the lackluster rules, they will sit on the store shelves.

Case in point, I hate the look of the assault version of the centurions, but I've already justified their possible use in my head because, heck, if I get the models, I'm magnetizing the under slung weapon mounts anyway, so I might as well hold on to those Norelco shavers. Now I will say this, if the devastator option is useless, I likely won't buy the models so I'll never be enticed to use the Norelco Bandits. As nice as the new Vanguard models are (and its not like the old ones were bad), if they still have to pay 15+ points for power weapons, I won't buy them, especially if the rumor about being moved to Elites is true. I don't consider myself to be a WAAC or even an overly competitive player, but I do have limited time and budget, so I can't see myself dropping a ton of money and more importantly, time and effort, on models that will rarely see the battlefield, no matter how pretty.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 VoidAngel wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The thing I think a lot of people overlook is that the 40k background is a setting, not an ongoing story. Sometimes the 'current' point advances slightly, and sometimes the focus moves back a little.

But what this means for new units is that they have to be inserted somewhere. Without an advancing story line, anything you want to add has to be retrospectively inserted into existing background.

Each new codex release is not an advance in the story line. It is a revision of the previous version. And in that context, it is perfectly acceptable for a new unit to have 'always' been there.

No, it's perfectly acceptable for well-sculpted units with good rules to have always been there.

If we seem biased against fugly models with terrible rules (terrible in the sense of balance or utility, not uber-Wardesque-killiness) - we are. Give me something that LOOKS like it could have always been there (Contemptor). Give me something that was referenced on page 67 of the Second Edition rulebook, once. "What, those heretical little monkeys on Mars finally adapted the Hrud fusil into a blessed instrument of the Emprah's divine will? I'll take 10,000."

Something like that. Not, "Hey - the studio vomited again - pay up!"

The Helturkey got much grief prior to the CSM codex release, probably more than the Centurions are getting now. Rules come out, people see how powerful it is, and then all of a sudden, virtually every listed CSM army on Dakka has at least one. Had GW put one more point of AV and one more point of WS and BS on both of the new walker daemon engines, Dinobots would be there alongside the turkey.

Sadly, for the majority of US gamers (of which I am one), rules (especially broken OP rules, as long as they are in favor of the army) will always trump model quality. It just doesn't matter how fugly or out of place a model is, if its has powerful game rules, it'll be a hit. If an ugly model has good rules, we will find small things about the model that we like (oh, that icon is cool, I like that helmet), and suddenly, the model has "grown on us", and before you know it, we have 3 boxes waiting to be put together. And those beautiful models with the lackluster rules, they will sit on the store shelves.

Case in point, I hate the look of the assault version of the centurions, but I've already justified their possible use in my head because, heck, if I get the models, I'm magnetizing the under slung weapon mounts anyway, so I might as well hold on to those Norelco shavers. Now I will say this, if the devastator option is useless, I likely won't buy the models so I'll never be enticed to use the Norelco Bandits. As nice as the new Vanguard models are (and its not like the old ones were bad), if they still have to pay 15+ points for power weapons, I won't buy them, especially if the rumor about being moved to Elites is true. I don't consider myself to be a WAAC or even an overly competitive player, but I do have limited time and budget, so I can't see myself dropping a ton of money and more importantly, time and effort, on models that will rarely see the battlefield, no matter how pretty.

Had to exalt this, because I 100% agree. I think the Drake is a poor model, but the rules have still made it massively popular. If the Centurions have good enough rules, then every time someone posts a SM list it'll be "good list, but if I were you I'd drop that Tactical Squad and get 3 Centurions in there."

The two veteran kits do have something in their favour, though: even if their rules were ruined, the kits can at least be used to convert fancier versions of other infantry.

As far as the Heldrake goes, I think its a solid execution of a flawed concept.

I wasn't a huge fan based on the early pics or official ones, but once I saw one in the flesh, painted in a more muted scheme, I actually really like the model in isolation.

The fact remains there is no logical reason why CSM should have a flying dinobot in their army, and that's the thing that still rankles.

I have a vague plan to add one as part of an allied contingent to my daemons one day, and I can more easily intellectually justify that to myself, as it blurs the line between the two parts of the army, visually speaking.

The centurions just aren't good in my opinion, and while I'm not throwing my arms up and asking the Gods why, I certainly don't expect to buy any.

I doubt GW is going to go to all the trouble of making new vet kits just to screw them on the rules. I don't think GW is going to break it's trend of the news models being the best, although it would be a hell of a time for them to decide to write a balanced codex.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
I doubt GW is going to go to all the trouble of making new vet kits just to screw them on the rules. I don't think GW is going to break it's trend of the news models being the best, although it would be a hell of a time for them to decide to write a balanced codex.

I'm optimistic that they'll have at least made the points costs for Vanguard and their gear more reasonable.

As for Sternguard, I think it's a case of "if it ain't broke..."

Imperial Deceit wrote:
I doubt GW is going to go to all the trouble of making new vet kits just to screw them on the rules. I don't think GW is going to break it's trend of the news models being the best, although it would be a hell of a time for them to decide to write a balanced codex.

The CSM Warp Talons and Mutilators would like a word with you ...

I think the current Sternguard is perfectly balanced against a standard marine, however sense the standard marine is overpriced then so is the Sternguard. I don't think it would take much, like maybe 2-3 point drop on across the board for PA marines. Vanguards are way overpriced, especially if you want to run them as actual vanguard. The Jump Pack needs to ether by included in the points of the model or brought severely down, maybe 5 pts per model like assault marines.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
I doubt GW is going to go to all the trouble of making new vet kits just to screw them on the rules. I don't think GW is going to break it's trend of the news models being the best, although it would be a hell of a time for them to decide to write a balanced codex.

haha and again we will drop the .... my warptalons, forgefiends etc would love a quiet chat.
new models are not always the BEST....

They are for the golden boys of GW.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
I doubt GW is going to go to all the trouble of making new vet kits just to screw them on the rules. I don't think GW is going to break it's trend of the news models being the best, although it would be a hell of a time for them to decide to write a balanced codex.

The "trend" is closer to the opposite. Riptide aside, a lot of the new shiny toys have subpar rules.

I am looking forward to picking up the LE Templar cover, a box of the new tacticals and maybe a sternguard squad in the event that GW decides to give BT some special rules. Not really sure about centurions tbh, I have an image of a few marines in big suits with a PS3 controller operating the arms is a tad strange.

Lookie Lookie

I doubt the Eldar units would agree that their army is "subpar"

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

*nerdgasm*

EDIT: Nerdgasm as in "Templars, yay!".

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

I must say, the best looking Centurions so far in my opinion!

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

I must say, the best looking Centurions so far in my opinion!

Thats because they're Black Templars

Imperial Deceit wrote:
I doubt GW is going to go to all the trouble of making new vet kits just to screw them on the rules. I don't think GW is going to break it's trend of the news models being the best, although it would be a hell of a time for them to decide to write a balanced codex.

they made mutilators and warp talons didnt they?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 happygolucky wrote:

Imperial Deceit wrote:
I doubt GW is going to go to all the trouble of making new vet kits just to screw them on the rules. I don't think GW is going to break it's trend of the news models being the best, although it would be a hell of a time for them to decide to write a balanced codex.

The CSM Warp Talons and Mutilators would like a word with you ...

crap need to keep reading...

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I am looking forward to picking up the LE Templar cover, a box of the new tacticals and maybe a sternguard squad in the event that GW decides to give BT some special rules. Not really sure about centurions tbh, I have an image of a few marines in big suits with a PS3 controller operating the arms is a tad strange.

I just assumed it was some sort of neural interface, don't marines use the black carapace to interface with their power armour already? And if they can get bionics to work I don't see why they couldn't get the armour to be controlled without a physical controller.

I don't play chaos so I have no concept of Warp Talons/Mutilators. However I should have been more specific in that I was refering specifically to SM codex. Every time a new SM codex comes out it considered OP and every new unit is Cheese. Look at the responses to SW, BA, GK, and DA. Now granted that does slip with time, but at the intial launch everyone will say the samethings about C:SM. Because it will be true, for a while at least.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
I don't play chaos so I have no concept of Warp Talons/Mutilators. However I should have been more specific in that I was refering specifically to SM codex. Every time a new SM codex comes out it considered OP and every new unit is Cheese. Look at the responses to SW, BA, GK, and DA. Now granted that does slip with time, but at the intial launch everyone will say the samethings about C:SM. Because it will be true, for a while at least.

Chaos Space Marines are a variation of SM, just (as GW likes to call them) "with added spikes", You mean every "IMPHERIUM!!!!" release there is something OP that comes out of it..

 BrotherTri wrote:
Centurions:

Interesting, but a lot of questions come to mind…..

Are the things on either side of the chest plate additional weapons?

How are these guys getting across the table, foot slogging?

Can they ride in anything?



Stalker/Hunter:

This thing looks awesome!!!! I guess its primary role is AA?!?.

Will, I wonder if Chaos can use it?



New Vets/Command:

Finecast or plastic?

They centerians might be very bulking, so three in a LRC, but then again GW might be stupid and make them AV walkers.

Chaos wont get anything, regardless of how much sense it makes or how much they need another land raider variant.

Plastic

Thanks for that. I know what chaos is, I have slaughtered many a traitor in my time. I don't play them however, so I am not as familiar with the nuances of the codex, ala unit power and balance. Then again I have never seen anyone actually field either of those so that should tell me something.

ShottyScotty wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

I must say, the best looking Centurions so far in my opinion!

Thats because they're Black Templars

Oh course, because Black Templars are the best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
I am looking forward to picking up the LE Templar cover, a box of the new tacticals and maybe a sternguard squad in the event that GW decides to give BT some special rules. Not really sure about centurions tbh, I have an image of a few marines in big suits with a PS3 controller operating the arms is a tad strange.

I just assumed it was some sort of neural interface, don't marines use the black carapace to interface with their power armour already? And if they can get bionics to work I don't see why they couldn't get the armour to be controlled without a physical controller.

I know that they'll use the black carapace, but it was just mental image I got from it.

It might have been said before, but to me, those Centurions look plug ugly.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

I must say, the best looking Centurions so far in my opinion!

Is it that they are actually good looking or that you're just getting used to seeing them now so the initial knee-jerk shock reaction is wearing off with each new look...

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

I don't play Templars, but those Centurions painted like that are amazing. I was in the camp of liking the models, seeing that makes me want to play the Templars!

 Exergy wrote:

 BrotherTri wrote:
Centurions:

Interesting, but a lot of questions come to mind…..

Are the things on either side of the chest plate additional weapons?

How are these guys getting across the table, foot slogging?

Can they ride in anything?



Stalker/Hunter:

This thing looks awesome!!!! I guess its primary role is AA?!?.

Will, I wonder if Chaos can use it?



New Vets/Command:

Finecast or plastic?

They centerians might be very bulking, so three in a LRC, but then again GW might be stupid and make them AV walkers.

Chaos wont get anything, regardless of how much sense it makes or how much they need another land raider variant.

Plastic

Its been confirmed they can take a Land Raider as a DT, both the assault and devastator versions.

Very Bulky IIRC was also confirmed, so you could get at most 4 in a LRC.

 Zweischneid wrote:


From the earlier Centurion Rules Leak (still rumours... bring salt)

Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne [sic!] bolters.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

looking at the rules and weapons these are probably not going to be very good. Unless you want to take a ton of bolters+heavy bolters on an infatry platform, having some melta or lascannons could just as easily be brought on likely cheaper models. Armed with 2 las cannons these guys are going to be over 80-100 points each. You could get devistators for less.

 Exergy wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:


From the earlier Centurion Rules Leak (still rumours... bring salt)

Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne [sic!] bolters.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

looking at the rules and weapons these are probably not going to be very good. Unless you want to take a ton of bolters+heavy bolters on an infatry platform, having some melta or lascannons could just as easily be brought on likely cheaper models. Armed with 2 las cannons these guys are going to be over 80-100 points each. You could get devistators for less.

And have them wiped off the board in a single turn from the 1-3 obligatory Hellturkeys or Riptides in everyone's lists.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

I must say, the best looking Centurions so far in my opinion!

Is it that they are actually good looking or that you're just getting used to seeing them now so the initial knee-jerk shock reaction is wearing off with each new look...

It's because black is slimming (as opposed to yellow, which makes you look fatter), hence the popular "little black dresses". So they look less bulky in black.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Thanks for that. I know what chaos is, I have slaughtered many a traitor in my time. I don't play them however, so I am not as familiar with the nuances of the codex, ala unit power and balance. Then again I have never seen anyone actually field either of those so that should tell me something.

so basically in the 6th edition Chaos dex, chaos got models and rules for a bunch of new units:
a super heavy terminator like these centurians.
a squad of elite lightning claw wielding jump infantry
a mega dreadnaught that is fast, built for combat
a mega dreadnaught that engades at range, with either plasmacannons or auto cannons
a Dark Chaplin
a Dark Techmarine
a flyer that can swoop down and slash things like a monsterous creature

except for the flyer, all of the new rules suck. Some more than others, but the ones with bad models probably dont sell well.
It is possible that all of the new C:SM toys are going to have rules that make people want to field them. It is also equally likely that only 1 or none will.

Here is another Sternguard
[

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:


From the earlier Centurion Rules Leak (still rumours... bring salt)

Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne [sic!] bolters.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

looking at the rules and weapons these are probably not going to be very good. Unless you want to take a ton of bolters+heavy bolters on an infatry platform, having some melta or lascannons could just as easily be brought on likely cheaper models. Armed with 2 las cannons these guys are going to be over 80-100 points each. You could get devistators for less.

And have them wiped off the board in a single turn from the 1-3 obligatory Hellturkeys or Riptides in everyone's lists.

Unfortunately I have to agree with the Centurions being the bandaid on the problems with turkeys and tides. It just makes me sad that cool looking devastators are relegated to the shelf this edition.

On another note, both veteran squads look great. Gonna be poor after they're released.

Any chance the new stuff will be available to all space marine chapters...
For example the new (what looks like anti air tanks) could be used with BA/DA/BT codex's etc..?
They gave the storm raven from just two chapters to everyone so I'm wondering if they will make the new units avaliable to all chapters??? Anyone have any idea ?

No.

Yes, maybe, no?
We don't know.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:


From the earlier Centurion Rules Leak (still rumours... bring salt)

Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne [sic!] bolters.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

looking at the rules and weapons these are probably not going to be very good. Unless you want to take a ton of bolters+heavy bolters on an infatry platform, having some melta or lascannons could just as easily be brought on likely cheaper models. Armed with 2 las cannons these guys are going to be over 80-100 points each. You could get devistators for less.

And have them wiped off the board in a single turn from the 1-3 obligatory Hellturkeys or Riptides in everyone's lists.

Unfortunately I have to agree with the Centurions being the bandaid on the problems with turkeys and tides. It just makes me sad that cool looking devastators are relegated to the shelf this edition.

I'm hoping the new AA rhinos will be the cure to Helturkeys, we still havent got rules for them...

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Thanks for that. I know what chaos is, I have slaughtered many a traitor in my time. I don't play them however, so I am not as familiar with the nuances of the codex, ala unit power and balance. Then again I have never seen anyone actually field either of those so that should tell me something.

As have I slaughtered many a loyalist and fed their souls to Slannesh majority of balance and unit power was basically a C+P job from the 4th ed. codex, with a few new units that don't do too much, few players on Dakka call the codex a WD update with a front and a back

Any way back to topic I hope Perdo Kantor can take Sternguard as troops, if so I may have a sudden urge to put my DE on hold and impulse buy a DP Sternguard army

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

Black is very slimming, after all!

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:


From the earlier Centurion Rules Leak (still rumours... bring salt)

Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne [sic!] bolters.

Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.

They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.

looking at the rules and weapons these are probably not going to be very good. Unless you want to take a ton of bolters+heavy bolters on an infatry platform, having some melta or lascannons could just as easily be brought on likely cheaper models. Armed with 2 las cannons these guys are going to be over 80-100 points each. You could get devistators for less.

And have them wiped off the board in a single turn from the 1-3 obligatory Hellturkeys or Riptides in everyone's lists.

Unfortunately I have to agree with the Centurions being the bandaid on the problems with turkeys and tides. It just makes me sad that cool looking devastators are relegated to the shelf this edition.

I'm hoping the new AA rhinos will be the cure to Helturkeys, we still havent got rules for them...

To be honest I think the Centurions will have a 2+ SV meaning that they will be laughing at the Helldrakes Baleflamer...

Also Hoping the Legion of the Dammed become quite good, love those models...

I'd rather have something that can reliably take down a Heldrake rather than a just a unit that can survive their onslaught

I kept telling myself that I would not go back to the SM codex from BA. My marines are a BA army through and through.

That said, if the SM codex can take assault marines troops and a librarian dread then I might have to break that promise. The rules I am hearing are, at least to me, only positive.

Those Templar Centurians actually look pretty cool, and I was in the "they look like a pile of turds" camp. I'd like to see that picture a little bigger.

SMMSjosh14 wrote:
Any chance the new stuff will be available to all space marine chapters...
For example the new (what looks like anti air tanks) could be used with BA/DA/BT codex's etc..?
They gave the storm raven from just two chapters to everyone so I'm wondering if they will make the new units avaliable to all chapters??? Anyone have any idea ?

I mean there is a chance. The AA tanks I feel more likely than others

The centurians feel very C:SM to me. I dont see BA or SW or DA getting them. If DA got them, watch out for the bolter banner and the hurricane bolters.

Sternguard and VV, well whatever rules they get in C:SM are not going to overwrite the rules in BA. SW and DA arent getting them, of course you could use the models however you like.

It won't be to hard to just play my BA as red SM until we get a new 'dex.

SMMSjosh14 wrote:
Any chance the new stuff will be available to all space marine chapters...
For example the new (what looks like anti air tanks) could be used with BA/DA/BT codex's etc..?
They gave the storm raven from just two chapters to everyone so I'm wondering if they will make the new units avaliable to all chapters??? Anyone have any idea ?

probably not, the only reason they handed out the plane to other marine chapters was to even the playing field a bit. The generic space marines have always been ahead of the other chapters(still waiting for my DA to find a thunderfire cannon).

Well generic marines aren't so much a head as they are ubiquitous, sense the codex allows you to generate any chapter you want it has to have everything that is unique to one chapter to allow for flexibility.

Great points, thanks guys. I guess I am just sad because I've finally finished painting up and having some HQ's professionally done on my blood angels after getting back into the hobby only to find (via reading, not actual experience) that they suck and the new SM codex will just put us to more shame. But.. I imagine I'm not the only one feeling this way.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
It won't be to hard to just play my BA as red SM until we get a new 'dex.

Words, right out of my mouth.

Fortunatly SMMSjosh the BA have more flexability then a xenos army. New BA codex? The are BA. New SM codex? Now they are red sm. simple

 BryllCream wrote:
There is nothing in that post that I do not like.

Agreed. Even though I REALLY REALLY wanted a mega-dreadknight.

Haha that's true, thanks guys.

Liking the black centurions.

The problem this codex will have is the same as the DA and to a lesser extent the CSM dex. They are still expensive guys in 3+ armor who will die in droves to the most popular lists.

Eldar
CSM Hell Turkey Spam
Flying Circus Daemons
Riptide heavy Tau

Those lists shred MEQ armies, it's almost like the design studio designed the codices to be good at MEQ killing as a base line , and so a dex with the basic Marine as it's main component will be hard pressed to win this edition. I can't see how they will get around that problem with this codex.

Not that I won't be playing it! My Heresy Era Salamanders are already getting built and primed for this release.

Im really loving the love for those BT ceturions, I am guessing thats the battle report, cant wait to see this one.

That sternguard with the heavy flamer is a beast.

You know, the centurions have grown on me a tad, especially with the black colour scheme. Mind you, if I was to ever take them, I probably would alter the egreeeeeeeeegious codpieces to look a tad more dignified. Mmm, quite.

The reason everyone prefers the black Centurions is because you can't see them properly!

 azreal13 wrote:
The reason everyone prefers the black Centurions is because you can't see them properly!

Is that a comment on the quality of the photo or peoples taste being blinded by their favorite color scheme?

People should stop saying black colour scheme, they should really say Black Templar colour scheme, that's why you love them so much.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
People should stop saying black colour scheme, they should really say Black Templar colour scheme, that's why you love them so much.

That's because you throw the Black Templars color scheme on, and all of a sudden those centurions are unstoppable killing machines on a grand crusade throughout all of space. That is how you purge the alien.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
The problem this codex will have is the same as the DA and to a lesser extent the CSM dex. They are still expensive guys in 3+ armor who will die in droves to the most popular lists.

Eldar
CSM Hell Turkey Spam
Flying Circus Daemons
Riptide heavy Tau

Those lists shred MEQ armies, it's almost like the design studio designed the codices to be good at MEQ killing as a base line , and so a dex with the basic Marine as it's main component will be hard pressed to win this edition. I can't see how they will get around that problem with this codex.

Not that I won't be playing it! My Heresy Era Salamanders are already getting built and primed for this release.

Can't agree more. Marine survivability has gone out the window.....

I play Eldar frequently, and the amount of High STR AP2 firepower they bring, on top of the ignores cover Serpent Shields, my beakies are dying in droves.

Here's to hoping for point reductions

Anyone know the fluff behind these grav weapons? They have different stats and appearance to graviton guns so I'm guessing they're different?

I just bought myself Vulkan if those big power suits are for real xD omg what a time to jump back into some space marines, do want!

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
The problem this codex will have is the same as the DA and to a lesser extent the CSM dex. They are still expensive guys in 3+ armor who will die in droves to the most popular lists.

Eldar
CSM Hell Turkey Spam
Flying Circus Daemons
Riptide heavy Tau

Those lists shred MEQ armies, it's almost like the design studio designed the codices to be good at MEQ killing as a base line , and so a dex with the basic Marine as it's main component will be hard pressed to win this edition. I can't see how they will get around that problem with this codex.

Not that I won't be playing it! My Heresy Era Salamanders are already getting built and primed for this release.

I'm not sure I agree. Marines already deal with most air units pretty well thanks to Stormtalons, and it looks like they will get even more anti-air options. I haven't found Heldrakes to be that effective in the games where I have played against them-- while it's certainly possible that the Chaos player will just roll like crazy on their saves to stay alive, it isn't particularly likely to actually happen, especially given the potential for Null Zone to mitigate the Heldrake's Invulnerable save. I'm actually worried that the opposite will happen and that Codex: Space Marines will be a death knell for flyers.

While Null Zone is probably going away, I think the fundamentals of Marines are nevertheless quite strong. I mean sure, a Guardian's shuriken catapult can ignore your save on a lucky roll-- but your bolter ignores the Guardian's save all the time, has longer range, and wounds on 3+ instead of 4+. If I could swap my bolters for shuriken catapults at no cost, I wouldn't for most units. Similarly, Riptides are certainly a powerful unit-- but they are expensive and vulnerable to plasma, which Marine armies can bring in droves. I'm confident that Marines will be just fine in the new edition.

All in all, I honestly think the current Codex: Space Marines is one of the best-written and most flexible books out there and that Marines don't even really need an update for 6th edition. But we'll see what happens, I suppose.

 Nut's Chiropractor wrote:
Anyone know the fluff behind these grav weapons? They have different stats and appearance to graviton guns so I'm guessing they're different?

I hope they are different, as it doesn't fit the background. I like the idea of technology being lost and not really advancing. Also, the fluff indicates that Graviton weapons were very rare. I am okay with the concept of Centurions (just not the models) as they look like they could have designed a long time ago.

Sorry if this has already answered, is it known if Black templars have been rolled into the space marine book? I only think this because of the black templar cover for the marine book.

Sorry folks but those are still, Chubbyteletubbytemplars!!!!

Just curious. What is the "null zone" you're referring to in regards to the Heldrake?

Null Zone is an SM psychic power that causes enemies to reroll successful invul saves within a certain range, IIRC.

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Null Zone is an SM psychic power that causes enemies to reroll successful invul saves within a certain range, IIRC.

Ahhh, right. Had a brain fart lol.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Imperial Deceit wrote:
I doubt GW is going to go to all the trouble of making new vet kits just to screw them on the rules. I don't think GW is going to break it's trend of the news models being the best, although it would be a hell of a time for them to decide to write a balanced codex.

The "trend" is closer to the opposite. Riptide aside, a lot of the new shiny toys have subpar rules.

This right here! If anything, the trend is making decently powered units (from a game balance stand point) that are prohibitively points-heavy, thus killing any desire to field them. Its not that the Tau, Eldar, and DA flyers are bad exactly, its just that the points are far too high for the amount of damage and/or disruption they can provide.

Looks to me the new Bolters are modeled with proper holes in the barrels. Looking at the Tac Squad pic an some of the other stuff the holes are very even with an evenly rounded lip. It's more noticable in the Heavy Bolter barrels on the Centurions.

Yay! No more drilling!

The heavy bolters in the existing devastator box are like that. I'd rather they weren't, because the two halves don't always line up nicely, so you have to use a bit of green stuff. I'd rather just drill them.

Does anyone have the BT pic saved to repost? When will people learn you can't hotlink 4chan...

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Does anyone have the BT pic saved to repost? When will people learn you can't hotlink 4chan...

Second!

Here's a thought, if grav guns are able to wound based on armour save, that implies they have a STR value.

I therefore wonder if treating the target's save as toughness works for Instant Death, similar to Darkstrider's wargear. If so, the grav gun only needs to be S4 to one-shot a Riptide and many other MCs.

They wouldn't put that in, would they...?

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

Umm.. I'm just wondering, what guns are those? Big-ass grav guns?

 Fezman wrote:
Here's a thought, if grav guns are able to wound based on armour save, that implies they have a STR value.

I therefore wonder if treating the target's save as toughness works for Instant Death, similar to Darkstrider's wargear. If so, the grav gun only needs to be S4 to one-shot a Riptide and many other MCs.

They wouldn't put that in, would they...?

I hope they don't do that. The fluff on grav guns is able to kill light cultists and guardsmen as well as big tanks and riptides. I personally like the way HH: Betrayal did it: Concussive, haywire, and the target must take strength test or suffer wound, AP 4, and causes small(grav gun)/large blast(grav cannon) size difficult and dangerous terrain. I would love this if they ported it into 40k.

 prowla wrote:

ShottyScotty wrote:

Lookie Lookie

Umm.. I'm just wondering, what guns are those? Big-ass grav guns?

I thought that they were rocket launchers.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Does anyone have the BT pic saved to repost? When will people learn you can't hotlink 4chan...

This small pic?

 Fezman wrote:
Here's a thought, if grav guns are able to wound based on armour save, that implies they have a STR value.
I therefore wonder if treating the target's save as toughness works for Instant Death, similar to Darkstrider's wargear. If so, the grav gun only needs to be S4 to one-shot a Riptide and many other MCs.
They wouldn't put that in, would they...?

I compare it to Abyssal Staff: That one has S8 and rolls against LD. It does not affect vehicles and ID is still checked with Toughness.

In my opinion it will probably be long ranged, and just one shot.
This weapon might be the counter to high-T low-Save MC's and Characters that we have been seeing.
It would beat Plasma at T6 with a 2+
Melta has a short range
Krak-missiles don't work well against 2+

If they made it short-range, I would prefer Melta-weapons.
If they gave it rapid fire, plasma would be almost useless.

Comparing it to the other special weapons also makes me believe it will be S5, so it would have a use against 3+ saves compared to plasma.
So for my prediction:

Grav pistol: 12" S5, AP2 | Pistol, Grav
Grav gun: 24" S5, AP2 | Assault 1, Grav
Grav Cannon: 36 or 48" S5, AP2 | Heavy 1, Grav

Grav: When rolling to wounds, roll against the armour save instead of Toughness.

And with S5 they can also glance quite some vehicles.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Does anyone have the BT pic saved to repost? When will people learn you can't hotlink 4chan...

This small pic?

Umm.. I'm just wondering, what guns are those? Big-ass grav guns?

 Kingsley wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
The problem this codex will have is the same as the DA and to a lesser extent the CSM dex. They are still expensive guys in 3+ armor who will die in droves to the most popular lists.

Eldar
CSM Hell Turkey Spam
Flying Circus Daemons
Riptide heavy Tau

Those lists shred MEQ armies, it's almost like the design studio designed the codices to be good at MEQ killing as a base line , and so a dex with the basic Marine as it's main component will be hard pressed to win this edition. I can't see how they will get around that problem with this codex.

Not that I won't be playing it! My Heresy Era Salamanders are already getting built and primed for this release.

. Similarly, Riptides are certainly a powerful unit-- but they are expensive and vulnerable to plasma, which Marine armies can bring in droves. I'm confident that Marines will be just fine in the new edition.

Riptides are anything but expensive. 185 points (the minimum go-to configuration) is the same as the price for a current C:SM Tactical Squad with 10 men.

In addition, the only unit in C:SM that can effectively spam plasma is Sternguard, and they need a drop pod so they don't get popped minutes into the game. At that point you're looking at 320+ points for the unit. Those Riptides aren't so expensive now, are they?

Seriously, the only reliable counters Marines have to a Riptide is bringing Tri-Las Preds in triples, Devastator Squads with Lascannons in triples and Sternguard with Combi-Plasma spam. Notice how all of them cost 2 or 3 times what they pay for a Riptide and can only kill one a turn. Sure, you can tie it up in CC - but you'll never get there if he JSJ's at the back of the board with his infinite range pie plate gun.

Unless you've got a suitable competitive list Marines are screwed if they come up against double/triple Riptide and in hot water if they have to face even one.

You haven't seen the rules in the codex yet.

For all you know, the Vanguards may be able to chew through a riptide with a powerfist/thunderhammer or two in one turn and be less than 185pts.

The Hunter may be the ideal counter to helldrakes.

Waveserpants may drop like flies to grav guns....

Seriously, worry about how the army is going to deal with such things WHEN you have read the rules and are not just guessing them.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Riptides are anything but expensive. 185 points (the minimum go-to configuration) is the same as the price for a current C:SM Tactical Squad with 10 men.

That's pretty expensive. They bring one model, I bring ten (with upgrades)?

 Mr.Omega wrote:
In addition, the only unit in C:SM that can effectively spam plasma is Sternguard, and they need a drop pod so they don't get popped minutes into the game. At that point you're looking at 320+ points for the unit. Those Riptides aren't so expensive now, are they?

You can also take 4 plasma guns on Command Squads, take combi-plasmas and plasma guns in Tactical Squads, take Razorbacks with lascannons and TL plasmas, etc.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Seriously, the only reliable counters Marines have to a Riptide is bringing Tri-Las Preds in triples, Devastator Squads with Lascannons in triples and Sternguard with Combi-Plasma spam. Notice how all of them cost 2 or 3 times what they pay for a Riptide and can only kill one a turn. Sure, you can tie it up in CC - but you'll never get there if he JSJ's at the back of the board with his infinite range pie plate gun.

Pie plates generally aren't that good. If you space your models correctly and use cover, the ion accelerator is a bit of a "whatever" level weapon-- and then the Riptide has to get closer to be effective, and your meltas and plasmas can chew it up. If I see a Riptide sitting in the back firing its ion accelerator every turn, I just straight up ignore it. It will never kill enough to justify its price if I'm using the Movement phase (the most important phase in the game) effectively. It's when Riptides play more aggressively and use their secondary weapons and assault threat that I have to be concerned-- but thankfully in that case they're vulnerable to my melta, plasma, and assault threats.

I generally like seeing Riptides on the table when I play Marines. Hordes of Fire Warriors are much harder to deal with.

Kangodo wrote:

 Fezman wrote:
Here's a thought, if grav guns are able to wound based on armour save, that implies they have a STR value.
I therefore wonder if treating the target's save as toughness works for Instant Death, similar to Darkstrider's wargear. If so, the grav gun only needs to be S4 to one-shot a Riptide and many other MCs.
They wouldn't put that in, would they...?

I compare it to Abyssal Staff: That one has S8 and rolls against LD. It does not affect vehicles and ID is still checked with Toughness.

In my opinion it will probably be long ranged, and just one shot.
This weapon might be the counter to high-T low-Save MC's and Characters that we have been seeing.
It would beat Plasma at T6 with a 2+
Melta has a short range
Krak-missiles don't work well against 2+

If they made it short-range, I would prefer Melta-weapons.
If they gave it rapid fire, plasma would be almost useless.

Comparing it to the other special weapons also makes me believe it will be S5, so it would have a use against 3+ saves compared to plasma.
So for my prediction:

Grav pistol: 12" S5, AP2 | Pistol, Grav
Grav gun: 24" S5, AP2 | Assault 1, Grav
Grav Cannon: 36 or 48" S5, AP2 | Heavy 1, Grav

Grav: When rolling to wounds, roll against the armour save instead of Toughness.

And with S5 they can also glance quite some vehicles.

I foresee grav weapons to be a bit more powerful than that. I suspect the Grav Cannon will be a blast or multi-shot weapon, since the battle report had 3 centurions killing a gak-load of plague marines in a single round. I also suspect the AP to be 1 since physical armour should offer no protection against gravity, and actually appears to make it more powerful.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
You haven't seen the rules in the codex yet.

For all you know, the Vanguards may be able to chew through a riptide with a powerfist/thunderhammer or two in one turn and be less than 185pts.

The Hunter may be the ideal counter to helldrakes.

Waveserpants may drop like flies to grav guns....

Seriously, worry about how the army is going to deal with such things WHEN you have read the rules and are not just guessing them.

But how else will we pass the next three weeks...?

As it stands I think (solely based on the rumours) that GW are thinking "whoops, we've painted ourselves into a corner here." Every book that's coming out has obvious ways to inflict heavy damage on the game's flagship army. They are therefore loading said army's book with counters.

Drakes gobbling up your marines? No problem, have a tank that can shoot down two of them at once. Riptides annoying you? Zap them with a grav gun and you can knock them over with a spitball. Etc, etc.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I foresee grav weapons to be a bit more powerful than that. I suspect the Grav Cannon will be a blast or multi-shot weapon, since the battle report had 3 centurions killing a gak-load of plague marines in a single round. I also suspect the AP to be 1 since physical armour should offer no protection against gravity, and actually appears to make it more powerful.

True, it could be Heavy 2 or Blast and cost around 20-30 points.
I actually thought about it being a blast, but thought that it would be too strong.
Your post made me realise that we also have small blasts, my mind was thinking: "blast = 5 inch" Stupid me.

I thought the AP2 was already rumoured as being the stat, so that's why I gave them AP2.
S5 is because they were indeed described as killing a load of MEQ's, and S5 is needed to wound them on a 2+

Don't HS-Centurions have 2 TL-HB's?
That would give them 2 TL-Grav Cannons.
Which could mean that each Centurion can hit 8 marines with his cannon.
That are 4 marines per blast, since those battle-reports try to make them look stronger than they are and I would almost bet my collection on it that they grouped all marines in B2B-contact.
8 marines, 2+ to wound and no armour-save result in 7 dead marines on average.

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Agreed, the Vet squads look fantastic. Now it may just be the picture but does the Sternguard Sgt. have a combi-pistol or is that supposed to be a new plasma pistol?

It's just a plasma pistol.

 insaniak wrote:

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Agreed, the Vet squads look fantastic. Now it may just be the picture but does the Sternguard Sgt. have a combi-pistol or is that supposed to be a new plasma pistol?

It's just a plasma pistol.

Yes, it just has some form of plate over the coils by the looks of things.

 Nut's Chiropractor wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Imperial Deceit wrote:
Agreed, the Vet squads look fantastic. Now it may just be the picture but does the Sternguard Sgt. have a combi-pistol or is that supposed to be a new plasma pistol?

It's just a plasma pistol.

Yes, it just has some form of plate over the coils by the looks of things.

Looks a bit like the style they use for CSM plasma weaponry.

So, you climb into this big suit of armor for your armor...and it's only armored from the FRONT?!

Because, you know, nobody ever flanks or infiltrates behind you in the 41st millennium. The only thing stupider would be if you climbed into an even bigger suit, but hung off the front of it like Baby Bjorn The Fell Handed or something... Oh, wait...

The lulz

No, I disagree that ugly models with great rules just automatically make it into lists. Maybe for WAAC players (I'm the opposite). Maybe for tournament players (generally not folks I want to game with - no offense).

I have a Dreadknight, I had to modify it heavily before I could bring myself to field it. I have three storm talons - from Russia. They were $7 apiece, plus some GW bitz - and they look better.
I have a Stormraven in the box awaiting inspiration - but I converted a proxy out of a valkyrie for now. I don't think I've ever fielded it.

Sorry - if I'm going to put that much time into a hobby with a strong aesthetic aspect...I want the models I spend my time and cash on, to look good. Just my thoughts.

So, anyone who dont like the centurions might find FWs new release interresting.
Mechanicus battle automatons.

 Fayric wrote:
So, anyone who dont like the centurions might find FWs new release interresting.
Mechanicus battle automatons.

They would be a nice stand-in, but a very pricey one at that. Certainly more than I could afford.

I think with Sternguard we hit the 50$ per single sprue mark.

 Fayric wrote:
So, anyone who dont like the centurions might find FWs new release interresting.
Mechanicus battle automatons.

Those look way to big to work as a replacement.

I sure hope the non pistol grav guns are blast...

I hope the grav guns come with skyfire. Hahaha...that would be awesome.

Kangodo wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I foresee grav weapons to be a bit more powerful than that. I suspect the Grav Cannon will be a blast or multi-shot weapon, since the battle report had 3 centurions killing a gak-load of plague marines in a single round. I also suspect the AP to be 1 since physical armour should offer no protection against gravity, and actually appears to make it more powerful.

True, it could be Heavy 2 or Blast and cost around 20-30 points.
I actually thought about it being a blast, but thought that it would be too strong.
Your post made me realise that we also have small blasts, my mind was thinking: "blast = 5 inch" Stupid me.

I thought the AP2 was already rumoured as being the stat, so that's why I gave them AP2.
S5 is because they were indeed described as killing a load of MEQ's, and S5 is needed to wound them on a 2+

Don't HS-Centurions have 2 TL-HB's?
That would give them 2 TL-Grav Cannons.
Which could mean that each Centurion can hit 8 marines with his cannon.
That are 4 marines per blast, since those battle-reports try to make them look stronger than they are and I would almost bet my collection on it that they grouped all marines in B2B-contact.
8 marines, 2+ to wound and no armour-save result in 7 dead marines on average.

ST5 only wounds MEQ on 3+ and plague marines on a 4+. From the rumors, the grav-cannon armed centurions only have a single gun but have something called a grav amp that gives To Wound rerolls or something. I am definitely intrigued, because one of my wish lists for this codex was some sort of new weapon type because the las/melta/plasma/bolter/flamer selections were getting kind of boring.

 VoidAngel wrote:
I hope the grav guns come with skyfire. Hahaha...that would be awesome.

It would be pretty cool and flavorful if they would make FMCs rerolling grounding tests or something like that.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:


ST5 only wounds MEQ on 3+ and plague marines on a 4+. From the rumors, the grav-cannon armed centurions only have a single gun but have something called a grav amp that gives To Wound rerolls or something. I am definitely intrigued, because one of my wish lists for this codex was some sort of new weapon type because the las/melta/plasma/bolter/flamer selections were getting kind of boring.

If he is referring to wounding using the Armor save vs Toughness then 5str to 3save would be a 2+.

It really only becomes "broken" provided it also has a low Ap or high Str.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:


ST5 only wounds MEQ on 3+ and plague marines on a 4+. From the rumors, the grav-cannon armed centurions only have a single gun but have something called a grav amp that gives To Wound rerolls or something. I am definitely intrigued, because one of my wish lists for this codex was some sort of new weapon type because the las/melta/plasma/bolter/flamer selections were getting kind of boring.

Good thing Grav guns wound on the armor save. Plague Marines still get wounded on a 3+ with an ap of 2. Not bad. They'll be great against TEQ and MCs. The strength is there so they can pen vehicles.

I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

If I recall from some pictures and disscussion a few pages ago about the Vanguard kit correctly, it'll have barely enough stuff to make the 5 guys and 1 or two bits more. I was sorely dissapointed in it for 50.

Don't get me wrong though its a beautiful kit.

Well we don't know they actually are $50.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

10 man squad plus full size accessory sprue?

I can't see GW price gouging, so it must be a massive kit. [/sarcasm]