blufury wrote: How highly are cp being valued now? Am I handicapping myself by taking 2 of the 1 cp detachments instead of the troop tax battalion?
I didn't value it as high before the FAQ, but now that a Battalion is 5CP, it's a must in any balanced list I create. I say balanced because it depends on the list you make. If you're running 3 T. Vaults or some other extreme, you'll probably be fine with limited CP.
But having the extra CP to command reroll a die for a target you really need to drop this turn, or auto pass morale when you can't afford to lose an objective, is really powerful.
Agreed. Our Strategems are pretty solid. With the new FAQ, pretty much 100% of my lists are a batallion *and* a support detatchment of choice (outrider or spearhead usually)
Also keep in mind several things that will eat through your CP:
-Sautekh: You're probably popping Methodical Destruction every turn.
-Nephrekh: You're putting at least 1 unit in reserve.
-Mephrit: Talent for Annihilation every turn.
-Wraiths need their advance + charge stratagem.
-The DDA eats CP like it's popcorn, since you are probably re-rolling it's D6 shots or D6dmg every turn AND popping Quantum Deflection every enemy turn.
Doctoralex wrote: Also keep in mind several things that will eat through your CP:
-Sautekh: You're probably popping Methodical Destruction every turn.
-Nephrekh: You're putting at least 1 unit in reserve.
-Mephrit: Talent for Annihilation every turn.
-Wraiths need their advance + charge stratagem.
-The DDA eats CP like it's popcorn, since you are probably re-rolling it's D6 shots or D6dmg every turn AND popping Quantum Deflection every enemy turn.
All very true.
But I also think that a lot of folks overvalue CP to a degree. They are helpful, but running out of them isn't a death sentence or something. They exist to be used. Ideally, liberally in the first turn or two to make key things happen to swing the game in your favor.
Doctoralex wrote: Also keep in mind several things that will eat through your CP:
-Sautekh: You're probably popping Methodical Destruction every turn.
-Nephrekh: You're putting at least 1 unit in reserve.
-Mephrit: Talent for Annihilation every turn.
-Wraiths need their advance + charge stratagem.
-The DDA eats CP like it's popcorn, since you are probably re-rolling it's D6 shots or D6dmg every turn AND popping Quantum Deflection every enemy turn.
All very true.
But I also think that a lot of folks overvalue CP to a degree. They are helpful, but running out of them isn't a death sentence or something. They exist to be used. Ideally, liberally in the first turn or two to make key things happen to swing the game in your favor.
I think this is key. You need to cause as much damage as possible or prevent as much as possible depending on your perspective/strategy. The bigger points deficit you can cause to your opponent or prevent for your army the better. You literally create a handicap your opponent has to work with/around.
I tend to burn the majority of my cp in the first 2 turns. My opponent still has cp in later turns, but it doesn't matter because they've lost too many units/models and I've been able to keep too many of mine alive.
If you try to build redundancy in the list, you are less dependent on rerolls which might save you 2-3 CPs (which you end up wasting on something else)
If you have 3 DDAs then they're more likely to perform near their expected damage output. You're less dependent on that single D6 roll.
Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.
But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.
(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)
Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.
But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.
(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)
DDA: Just your dice rolls for the gun or do you mean overall?
That's why you take two or three. With variable shots AND damage, it's an exercise in frustration to take only one.
...and then of course there are things like riptides with a 3++ that make you bang your head against a wall when they simply soak three DDAs worth of fire with barely a scratch.
Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.
But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.
(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)
DDA: Just your dice rolls for the gun or do you mean overall?
Oh, just poor dice luck, 1's for shots reroll into 1's, rolled 6 1s and 2s to hit at one point, just silly stuff like that.
I've also had some really bad rolls with the DDAs. Honestly, as said by @torblind, I'd rather take them as 3 at the very least or not take them at all.
Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.
But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.
(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)
DDA: Just your dice rolls for the gun or do you mean overall?
Oh, just poor dice luck, 1's for shots reroll into 1's, rolled 6 1s and 2s to hit at one point, just silly stuff like that.
I know people will say it's superstitious.....but I'd get new dice. Honestly, my friend that I play against was constantly whiffing rolls so I bought him a new set of dice and told him to play with those. Problem solved, and it's not just one game. Anytime he tried to go back to the old dice....whiff. Who knows if it's how the dice were made, inconsistencies in weight, etc. ?
We ditched the dice and the problem with them. This doesn't mean he's rolling all 6's now, but he's definitely rolling more statistically accurate.
Both good points.
I'd add that reanimation becomes increasingly valuable in later turns when firepower on both sides has decreased somewhat. It won't save us from an alpha strike, but helps increase our late-game presence. To try and make that happen. I usually have spent all my CP by middle of turn 3.
But yes, redundancy is always something to be desired for sure, one key point of failure is also something a good opponent can focus on.
(on a total side note, I really want to make the DDA work, but my luck with the thing so far has been soooo baaaaaad)
DDA: Just your dice rolls for the gun or do you mean overall?
Oh, just poor dice luck, 1's for shots reroll into 1's, rolled 6 1s and 2s to hit at one point, just silly stuff like that.
I know people will say it's superstitious.....but I'd get new dice. Honestly, my friend that I play against was constantly whiffing rolls so I bought him a new set of dice and told him to play with those. Problem solved, and it's not just one game. Anytime he tried to go back to the old dice....whiff. Who knows if it's how the dice were made, inconsistencies in weight, etc. ?
We ditched the dice and the problem with them. This doesn't mean he's rolling all 6's now, but he's definitely rolling more statistically accurate.
Just seems to be that model. Normally my luck on my dice is pretty darn good for everything else, but when it comes to the DDA, just iiiiice cold.
On a tactica note. How best to utilize Anrakyr. He's my favorite Necron Character, but I'm finding it hard to fit him in. Not too concerned with tournament play in this instance.
Sn33R wrote: So I'm sat here bored and thought I would add my bit.. I played 1k sons yesterday and having mephrit won the day he charged his mauler fiend I done more damage on 20 warriors in overwatch (mephrit) then the 2 shots I got off from the dda. Now to call mephrit a trap I would love to see how you play because m5 is no way able to out manoeuvre a fast army like nids.. lol but he charged my warriors I over watched loads a few in my turn I used rp then veil and moved them across the board.
Ah but with tyranids how much use that -1AP will then have against stuff that outmanouvers you? Stealers? They have 5++, they don't care. Hormagaunts? 6+ save. No care. Termagaunt ditto 6+ save so irrelevant. Warriors yeah I'll give it that there -2AP is good but again M6 so they aren't uber fast monsters...
Now there IS the carnifex with M7 and 3+. That's the prime one you would be looking at getting to rapid fire range.
Sunday facing necrons I was so glad he had the -1AP dynasty. Didn't came into play even once!
Agreed. Their are soooo many invuls out there these days.
Maneuver is the key to warfare. That means Nephrek if you want faster speed and slight penalty to hit OR Sautekh if you want more random/average advances but no penalties to hit. Consider that MWBD can grant the +1 and offset the -1 to hit on advances Nephrek basically turns your army into a flat 7" faster movement (12" for most things). Or Sautekh slightly slower and more deadly with nice stratagems. These 2 dynasties are definitely the top 2 contenders for necrons.
Sn33R wrote: So I'm sat here bored and thought I would add my bit.. I played 1k sons yesterday and having mephrit won the day he charged his mauler fiend I done more damage on 20 warriors in overwatch (mephrit) then the 2 shots I got off from the dda. Now to call mephrit a trap I would love to see how you play because m5 is no way able to out manoeuvre a fast army like nids.. lol but he charged my warriors I over watched loads a few in my turn I used rp then veil and moved them across the board.
Ah but with tyranids how much use that -1AP will then have against stuff that outmanouvers you? Stealers? They have 5++, they don't care. Hormagaunts? 6+ save. No care. Termagaunt ditto 6+ save so irrelevant. Warriors yeah I'll give it that there -2AP is good but again M6 so they aren't uber fast monsters...
Now there IS the carnifex with M7 and 3+. That's the prime one you would be looking at getting to rapid fire range.
Sunday facing necrons I was so glad he had the -1AP dynasty. Didn't came into play even once!
Agreed. Their are soooo many invuls out there these days.
Maneuver is the key to warfare. That means Nephrek if you want faster speed and slight penalty to hit OR Sautekh if you want more random/average advances but no penalties to hit. Consider that MWBD can grant the +1 and offset the -1 to hit on advances Nephrek basically turns your army into a flat 7" faster movement (12" for most things). Or Sautekh slightly slower and more deadly with nice stratagems. These 2 dynasties are definitely the top 2 contenders for necrons.
If the new Death Watch come out recently and probably Space Wolf released at the bottom of this year become the new hottness. Mephrit will have their days. That tons of -1AP Tesla shots will be deadly for those rely on good armor saves.
On a tactica note. How best to utilize Anrakyr. He's my favorite Necron Character, but I'm finding it hard to fit him in. Not too concerned with tournament play in this instance.
Lychguard, Warriors, or Flayed Ones are really your only good options. You can either have him sit with a couple of blocks of troops or if you want to have some form of deepstrike, use a Lord or Cryptek to veil him up to a deepstriking group of FO or Lychguard (using the Neph Strat) and add their buff to the group.
On a tactica note. How best to utilize Anrakyr. He's my favorite Necron Character, but I'm finding it hard to fit him in. Not too concerned with tournament play in this instance.
Lychguard and Flayed ones may seem like the obvious choice but I think he actually brings the most benefit to a Warrior heavy army. If you're taking something like two blobs of 20 warriors you want an overlord sat with them anyway, Anrakyr is ideal. They become a serious threat up close with 80 attacks from one unit if they rapid fire and charge. You can make all those attacks hit on 2s with MWBD and half of them S5 with the +1 Strength strat.
I wonder if there has been any lists featuring Warriors that performed well in the tournament scene yet?
I honestly don't see them doing so great in a hyper competitive environment (though I would be pleasantly surprised if I were proven wrong).
On a tactica note. How best to utilize Anrakyr. He's my favorite Necron Character, but I'm finding it hard to fit him in. Not too concerned with tournament play in this instance.
Lychguard and Flayed ones may seem like the obvious choice but I think he actually brings the most benefit to a Warrior heavy army. If you're taking something like two blobs of 20 warriors you want an overlord sat with them anyway, Anrakyr is ideal. They become a serious threat up close with 80 attacks from one unit if they rapid fire and charge. You can make all those attacks hit on 2s with MWBD and half of them S5 with the +1 Strength strat.
I'd considered that, and throwing in a Cryptek as my warlord with him with Immortal Pride to make them fearless, and give them a 5++ and VoD to get them out of sticky assaults.
I think that warriors can do well competitively.....but only if they're really supported which will cost a lot. I think you'd really have to play to the objectives and have at least 2 ghost arks.
Having said that, I don't think they'll do "best" and that's why they won't see competitive use. Tournies are all about min-maxing. Which, to me.....min-maxing = boring.
Agreed. I always use at least 2 units of Warriors and every game I've played so far with my friends, they've done very well and have proved quite difficult to deal with.
Agreed. I always use at least 2 units of Warriors and every game I've played so far with my friends, they've done very well and have proved quite difficult to deal with.
are you running max units of 20? What are you supporting them with? Do you use the auto pass morale WL trait?
Agreed. I always use at least 2 units of Warriors and every game I've played so far with my friends, they've done very well and have proved quite difficult to deal with.
are you running max units of 20? What are you supporting them with? Do you use the auto pass morale WL trait?
I would go 19 if its ITC backed by some lords, Ghost ARk, Cryptec if I did it. Solid fire base. Yes the auto morale WL trait, or the one that extends your WL buff range by 3". More than likely though, take Sautekh to have the chance to get CP back. Remember, there is the generic Stratagem in the BRB that cost 2 CP and you autopass morale. This way you have a chance to get those 2 CP back anyway without having to waste the WL trait slot, effectively getting even more CP which we are starved for with all the stratagems.
Agreed. I always use at least 2 units of Warriors and every game I've played so far with my friends, they've done very well and have proved quite difficult to deal with.
are you running max units of 20? What are you supporting them with? Do you use the auto pass morale WL trait?
I would go 19 if its ITC backed by some lords, Ghost ARk, Cryptec if I did it. Solid fire base. Yes the auto morale WL trait, or the one that extends your WL buff range by 3". More than likely though, take Sautekh to have the chance to get CP back. Remember, there is the generic Stratagem in the BRB that cost 2 CP and you autopass morale. This way you have a chance to get those 2 CP back anyway without having to waste the WL trait slot, effectively getting even more CP which we are starved for with all the stratagems.
That's been my thought. I think it makes more sense to use Sautekh and then use the CP's to autopass and potentially get some of the cp back.
Hello All, new user so i will say sorry right away for any duplication
Just got back into the hobby so bare with me
So here is my problem i have yet to win with the new codex
I know at this stage its trying out all our lovely new combos
Etc
I am against Raven Guard , imperial Fists, Space Wolves
What takes me out is the inability to remove there preds, dreads etc
Hellblasters and deepstriking aggressors every time i try and
gain board control i get deepstriked my back lines get CC and thats
where things turn bad i get Plasma spammed so
Quantum shielding gets nulified and then if i run a monolith or any
Vehicle that can deliver troops there pretty much taken out turn 1
I dont line relying on the deceiver to get turn 1 as it becomes to expensive
When i am facing troop heavy lists and need boots but also fire power
Needing some solid go to Marine killing tactics to rid them from the galaxy!!!
Are people really having an issue with losing Warrior squads to morale? I never seem to lose more than 4-5 in a bad round of saves, so unless I'm rolling 6+ on the morale check, I'm not too worried.
Curious79 wrote: Hello All, new user so i will say sorry right away for any duplication
Just got back into the hobby so bare with me
So here is my problem i have yet to win with the new codex
I know at this stage its trying out all our lovely new combos
Etc
I am against Raven Guard , imperial Fists, Space Wolves
What takes me out is the inability to remove there preds, dreads etc
Hellblasters and deepstriking aggressors every time i try and
gain board control i get deepstriked my back lines get CC and thats
where things turn bad i get Plasma spammed so
Quantum shielding gets nulified and then if i run a monolith or any
Vehicle that can deliver troops there pretty much taken out turn 1
I dont line relying on the deceiver to get turn 1 as it becomes to expensive
When i am facing troop heavy lists and need boots but also fire power
Needing some solid go to Marine killing tactics to rid them from the galaxy!!!
What about the Tesseract Ark? Kit it out with gauss cannon and vary the main gun firing profile depending on what your targeting, The wound-on-2+ AP-2 flamer if in range, S5 -4 dmg 3 medium profile against terminators and friends or the S8 -3 dmgd6 if against vehicles.
With sautekh it could make use of its 12" move to get where it needs to be and still fire hard.
EnTyme wrote: Are people really having an issue with losing Warrior squads to morale? I never seem to lose more than 4-5 in a bad round of saves, so unless I'm rolling 6+ on the morale check, I'm not too worried.
...Who on earth are you playing against that they can only manage to kill five warriors?!?
Curious79 wrote: Hello All, new user so i will say sorry right away for any duplication
Just got back into the hobby so bare with me
Spoiler:
So here is my problem i have yet to win with the new codex
I know at this stage its trying out all our lovely new combos
Etc
I am against Raven Guard , imperial Fists, Space Wolves
What takes me out is the inability to remove there preds, dreads etc
Hellblasters and deepstriking aggressors every time i try and
gain board control i get deepstriked my back lines get CC and thats
where things turn bad i get Plasma spammed so
Quantum shielding gets nulified and then if i run a monolith or any
Vehicle that can deliver troops there pretty much taken out turn 1
I dont line relying on the deceiver to get turn 1 as it becomes to expensive
When i am facing troop heavy lists and need boots but also fire power
Needing some solid go to Marine killing tactics to rid them from the galaxy!!!
Custodes, Tyranids, Space Wolves, Space Marines, etc. My group is pretty diverse. There are usually other things on the board that people would rather focus on than a blob of Warriors. This is the problem with any discussion about how good "X" unit is. It really depends on what else is on the board. When I have six Tomb Blades taking down elites, and 10 Gauss Immortals whittling down chaff on top of a CCB sniping your HQs, which do you view as the biggest threat?
EnTyme wrote: Custodes, Tyranids, Space Wolves, Space Marines, etc. My group is pretty diverse. There are usually other things on the board that people would rather focus on than a blob of Warriors. This is the problem with any discussion about how good "X" unit is. It really depends on what else is on the board. When I have six Tomb Blades taking down elites, and 10 Gauss Immortals whittling down chaff on top of a CCB sniping your HQs, which do you view as the biggest threat?
I think that's a valid point.....you also have to remember that to kill a warrior blob that's supported takes significant firepower.....sometimes it isn't worth it to dedicate the firepower, especially if you just get close and don't kill the squad and then they come back.
I would assume this isn't the case, but if the shooting phase isn't done properly then it can give the opponent a big advantage. You have to declare all your shots before rolling.....so basically on a warrior blob you're going to have to dump a lot of shots to guarantee you wipe them.....I think people will avoid doing it because of the amount of firepower it takes.
I think they're good for holding objectives and can do decent damage too. You can use them to screen also. I really think they're worthwhile.
EnTyme wrote: Are people really having an issue with losing Warrior squads to morale? I never seem to lose more than 4-5 in a bad round of saves, so unless I'm rolling 6+ on the morale check, I'm not too worried.
Yeah, I had a 750 point game where I lost over 10 guys on round 1, popped the auto-pass strat, got a handful back, then lost 9 on round 2. had no CP left, but fortunately rolled a 1 for leadership, then rolled for ~12-14 to return! My opponent was not pleased, to say the least...
amnz wrote: I've also had some really bad rolls with the DDAs. Honestly, as said by @torblind, I'd rather take them as 3 at the very least or not take them at all.
The first time I played my DDA, it took out a Ven Dreadnought on turn 1. Didn't do much for the remainder of the battle, but it was a solid opener.
skoffs wrote: If you're having trouble against a certain unit, the answer is usually "take a unit of 6x Nephrekh Destroyers." (+ some Scarabs)
Yeah, being able to drop a unit of destroyers behind enemy lines is pretty powerful.
To me though the fact that its locked to a specific dynasty is poor design though, as that strat is the primary reason why you want nephrekh, not the trait. That doesn't seem right to me.
skoffs wrote: If you're having trouble against a certain unit, the answer is usually "take a unit of 6x Nephrekh Destroyers." (+ some Scarabs)
Yeah, being able to drop a unit of destroyers behind enemy lines is pretty powerful.
To me though the fact that its locked to a specific dynasty is poor design though, as that strat is the primary reason why you want nephrekh, not the trait. That doesn't seem right to me.
Ignoring the fact that the Nephrekh trait is actually really good, I don't see anything wrong with giving different dynasties different advantages. Sautekh is largely favored for their warlord trait over their code/stratagem, for example.
Curious79 wrote: Hello All, new user so i will say sorry right away for any duplication Just got back into the hobby so bare with me
So here is my problem i have yet to win with the new codex I know at this stage its trying out all our lovely new combos Etc I am against Raven Guard , imperial Fists, Space Wolves
What takes me out is the inability to remove there preds, dreads etc Hellblasters and deepstriking aggressors every time i try and gain board control i get deepstriked my back lines get CC and thats where things turn bad i get Plasma spammed so Quantum shielding gets nulified and then if i run a monolith or any Vehicle that can deliver troops there pretty much taken out turn 1 I dont line relying on the deceiver to get turn 1 as it becomes to expensive When i am facing troop heavy lists and need boots but also fire power
Needing some solid go to Marine killing tactics to rid them from the galaxy!!!
Use screens to limit his deep striking. Scarabs and warriors are useful for this purpose. If you spread the warriors out at max coherency distance you can cover quite a bit of the table. Ditto with scarabs due to their base size. Deathmarks are a useful psychological weapon, as your opponent knows you can use them to counter his deep strikers. That may force him to place his units in an unoptimal position in order to mitigate their immediate fire. Wraiths don't care about plasma. They will always get that 3+ save, no matter what. Abuse LoS. He can't shoot what he can't see. Use the terrain to your advance and screen off areas to limit his firing angles. If you are playing the game like WHFB with wide open spaces and no large LoS blockers, you are playing 40k wrong.
skoffs wrote: If you're having trouble against a certain unit, the answer is usually "take a unit of 6x Nephrekh Destroyers." (+ some Scarabs)
Yeah, being able to drop a unit of destroyers behind enemy lines is pretty powerful. To me though the fact that its locked to a specific dynasty is poor design though, as that strat is the primary reason why you want nephrekh, not the trait. That doesn't seem right to me.
Ignoring the fact that the Nephrekh trait is actually really good, I don't see anything wrong with giving different dynasties different advantages. Sautekh is largely favored for their warlord trait over their code/stratagem, for example.
Only if you advance regularly. I seldom have the need to advance, so its not great for me. The only assault weapons I have are tesla, and I don't like advancing with those. I can see it working handy with particle tomb blades though. Being able to move 20" at a time and lay down a constant stream of S6 shots sounds pretty handy.
skoffs wrote: If you're having trouble against a certain unit, the answer is usually "take a unit of 6x Nephrekh Destroyers." (+ some Scarabs)
Yeah, being able to drop a unit of destroyers behind enemy lines is pretty powerful.
To me though the fact that its locked to a specific dynasty is poor design though, as that strat is the primary reason why you want nephrekh, not the trait. That doesn't seem right to me.
Ignoring the fact that the Nephrekh trait is actually really good, I don't see anything wrong with giving different dynasties different advantages. Sautekh is largely favored for their warlord trait over their code/stratagem, for example.
I don't really agree. Sautekh is a good code. Having army wide assault weapons is nothing to sniff at, especially when you consider MWBD. It addresses our mobility issues, granted not as consistently as nephrek, but nephrek can only shoot tesla after advancing. The heavy weapon rule is just a nice extra touch and the warlord trait is icing on the cake.
Curious79 wrote: Hello All, new user so i will say sorry right away for any duplication
Just got back into the hobby so bare with me
Spoiler:
So here is my problem i have yet to win with the new codex
I know at this stage its trying out all our lovely new combos
Etc
I am against Raven Guard , imperial Fists, Space Wolves
What takes me out is the inability to remove there preds, dreads etc
Hellblasters and deepstriking aggressors every time i try and
gain board control i get deepstriked my back lines get CC and thats
Get some Doomsday Arks (DDAs). They will pretty much deal with everything your having an issue with. The Cannon is either d6 72" S10 -5 D6 if stationary or S8 -2 D3 if you moved that turn. It's range will mean you won't be in your enemies gun range and you have enough fire power to take something out. Hopefully. It also has the fire power of 10 warriors. Best used in a Sautekh or Nihilakh detachment.
where things turn bad i get Plasma spammed so
Quantum shielding gets nulified and then if i run a monolith or any
Vehicle that can deliver troops there pretty much taken out turn 1
I dont line relying on the deceiver to get turn 1 as it becomes to expensive
When i am facing troop heavy lists and need boots but also fire power
Use Warriors blobs backed by a Cryptek to protect your DZ. Scarabs Should be used at the front of your DZ so they can protect your Warriors/DDA from being charged. And another unit in the back of your DZ to deal with anything that deepstrikes in.
Monolith isn't worth it if your playing against people who know how to counter Necrons. You be better off getting 2 Night Scythes. 2 chances of Deploying stuff Turn 2 and they both have -1 to hit which is better than the mono.
The Deceiver can be pretty reliable. It can help you move stuff your Deployed wrong. You don't always have to use his GI for an Alpha strike. Sometimes it's better to move stuff defensively after you see what your opponent is deploying and deepstrike. Or a distraction carnifex. Move 20 warrior blobs 12" from his closet model and then Deploy the Deceiver 8.9" behind them, then Deploy your 2nd and (hopefully) 3rd unit anywhere else you can see that will stop your opponent from DSing and so they have to kill those blobs to even get stuff DS'd. Means all your QS vehicles now don't look at much of a target.
What can we do against a lot of ork Boyz at low point games? I’m talking 75 boyz at 750 points. I know Tesla is good, but there’s only so much Tesla can do against such a high body count...
What can we do against a lot of ork Boyz at low point games? I’m talking 75 boyz at 750 points. I know Tesla is good, but there’s only so much Tesla can do against such a high body count...
Arachnofiend wrote: I mean a T4 body with a bad armor save is basically a tesla immortal's wet dream. Nobody has a better ork-killing weapon than us.
You probably need some scarabs to ward off against Da Jump.
Yup, pretty much-
Spoiler:
++ Patrol Detachment (Necrons) [41 PL, 747pts] ++
+ HQ + Lord [5 PL, 83pts]: Staff of Light
+ Troops + 9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
+ Fast Attack + 4x Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]:
++ Total: [41 PL, 747pts] ++
Don't know what Dynasty, Relic or Warlord trait to go for, but that setup basically screams Ork murder.
Maybe at 1000 a couple of Overlords would have been good, but at only 750 there weren't enough points available to do what I wanted, so I figured a Lord in the middle of four near max sized units of Tesla Immortals might have been the more efficient take.
I don't know, I'm not good at math.
Here's what I'd try at 1000 if I was tailoring for Green Tide-
skoffs wrote: Maybe at 1000 a couple of Overlords would have been good, but at only 750 there weren't enough points available to do what I wanted, so I figured a Lord in the middle of four near max sized units of Tesla Immortals might have been the more efficient take.
I don't know, I'm not good at math.
Here's what I'd try at 1000 if I was tailoring for Green Tide-
+ Troops + 10x Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
+ Fast Attack + 3x Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]:
++ Total: [54 PL, 998pts] ++
I would probably do 4x10 immortals, and use the remainder to beef up the scarabs some to make a better screen.
Mephrit would be an ideal choice for the immortals since you know the boys are coming to you. VoD is excellent since you can leave assault with your units if need be.
Hey, need some help tweaking up my list for a tournament. This is a tune-up of my list that already performed pretty well. I know i'll be facing various armies, like T.sons, Raven guard with 14 land speeders and some other, so goes from fast to heavy armor to 3++/4++ saves.
Spoiler:
Bataillon Sautekh (we could possibily change this dynasty)
-Cryptek + chrono
-Overlord + abyssal staff, hyperlogical strategist
-3X10 Tesla immortals
699 pts
The outrider lord is not a cryptek cause i don't have the extra cryptek mini.
Now i wonder if:
- switch one unit of immortal for warriors
-change the bataillon from Sautekh to Meprhit or Nihilakh. The plan is to superbuff tesla immortals with MWBD and methodogical destruction, but its expensive and likely a 1-shot deal. Mephrit, meh, i keep my immo at 23-24'' range. So Nihilakh may be? But i'm gonna stay put all game along with my DDA.
- Get 2X6 destroyers instead of 2X5, but since i got 3DDA i figured out 2X5 was enough for this list. One to VOD on turn 1, other to deepstrike on T2. Yeah i can swith my lord for a cryptek from another detachment.
-Merge the outrider or spearhead to save 1HQ and get 100 spare points. Likely if i get Nihillakh immortals and merge with the DDA.
-I do like having more scarabs than that.
skoffs wrote: Maybe at 1000 a couple of Overlords would have been good, but at only 750 there weren't enough points available to do what I wanted, so I figured a Lord in the middle of four near max sized units of Tesla Immortals might have been the more efficient take.
I don't know, I'm not good at math.
Here's what I'd try at 1000 if I was tailoring for Green Tide-
If all 4 units have Lords Will, then you'll have 56 wounds.
If 1 unit of 4 has MWBD, then you'll have 54 wounds.
If 2 units of 4 have MWBD, then you'll have 60 wounds.
All are very close. I'd say it depends on your play style. MWBD will be great if you split up your units. If you like the phalanx approach, then I'd go with Lords Will, as you'll have the buff during overwatch.
Hey, need some help tweaking up my list for a tournament. This is a tune-up of my list that already performed pretty well. I know i'll be facing various armies, like T.sons, Raven guard with 14 land speeders and some other, so goes from fast to heavy armor to 3++/4++ saves.
You could save points by putting the DDAs into the Sautekh detachment and dropping the extra HQ. With your spare Scarab that gives you about 100pts for either 2 more Destroyers or maybe taking Imotekh instead of the Overlord (he will get you +1CP then another +1CP per turn if you were going to use the extra MWBD strat). You loose the reroll 1's, but will be able to move and shoot, and have the option for Methodical Destruction on the DDAs- good vs superheavies.
Other things to think about might be:
Putting the VoD on a Sautekh character to teleport immortals while both Destroyer units deep strike. You could take 1 unit of Gauss Imms for this.
Making the Nephrek HQ Szeras so he can support the Immortal blob (he has no dynasty), then have a lord + overlord in the battalion. That would let all the HQs support the Troops despite being from different detachments. Alternatively, you could take Anrakyr in the Outrider for the same reason and have lord + cryptek in the battalion.
Working on my initial army and here's what I've thought about using for this month's 2k game:
Battalion: CCB - Lightning Field, SoL, Tesla cannon Cryptek - SoL, Chronometron Lord - Ress Orb, Veil of Darkness, Warscythe
10 Tesla Immortals 2x15 Warriors 8 Deathmarks Stalker DDA (Only 1 I have)
Outrider - Novokh Cryptek - Cloak (He'll need mobility), SoL 2x8 Scarabs 5 Wraiths - Particle Casters
So the reason I'm asking for advice is not to make it more competitive, but trying to figure out Dynasty for the Battalion. I was thinking Mephrit because it brings a lot of things, a nasty warlord trait, a good artifact, and since I have a small silvertide list, the -1 to AP sounds delicious. I like this list because it gives me a lot of flexibility in deploying. I can easily negate large parts from deepstriking or bubblewrap the CCB and DDA easily enough. Or I can take the center of the field and move forward while getting full support. Also not sure on the kit for the stalker yet.
skoffs wrote: Maybe at 1000 a couple of Overlords would have been good, but at only 750 there weren't enough points available to do what I wanted, so I figured a Lord in the middle of four near max sized units of Tesla Immortals might have been the more efficient take.
I don't know, I'm not good at math.
Here's what I'd try at 1000 if I was tailoring for Green Tide-
+ Troops + 10x Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
9x Immortals [8 PL, 153pts]: Tesla Carbine
+ Fast Attack + 3x Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]:
++ Total: [54 PL, 998pts] ++
I would probably do 4x10 immortals, and use the remainder to beef up the scarabs some to make a better screen.
Mephrit would be an ideal choice for the immortals since you know the boys are coming to you. VoD is excellent since you can leave assault with your units if need be.
Mephrit's stratagem would also come in handy to proc more hits on natural sixes.
nintura wrote: Working on my initial army and here's what I've thought about using for this month's 2k game:
Battalion: CCB - Lightning Field, SoL, Tesla cannon Cryptek - SoL, Chronometron Lord - Ress Orb, Veil of Darkness, Warscythe
10 Tesla Immortals 2x15 Warriors 8 Deathmarks Stalker DDA (Only 1 I have)
Outrider - Novokh Cryptek - Cloak (He'll need mobility), SoL 2x8 Scarabs 5 Wraiths - Particle Casters
So the reason I'm asking for advice is not to make it more competitive, but trying to figure out Dynasty for the Battalion. I was thinking Mephrit because it brings a lot of things, a nasty warlord trait, a good artifact, and since I have a small silvertide list, the -1 to AP sounds delicious. I like this list because it gives me a lot of flexibility in deploying. I can easily negate large parts from deepstriking or bubblewrap the CCB and DDA easily enough. Or I can take the center of the field and move forward while getting full support. Also not sure on the kit for the stalker yet.
Any other thoughts or suggestions?
Like I mentioned to the chap above; take anrakyr or Szeras instead of the HQ in your Outrider. This is always something to consider for crons to avoid HQs being a tax. Your Novokh Cryptek is currently just a tax- giving canopteks the RP strat is never worth it, so he won't be supporting them.
If I were you I'd go with Anrakyr to give all your troops an extra attack. Then Mephrit seems good for your Warriors and Immortals;
nintura wrote: Working on my initial army and here's what I've thought about using for this month's 2k game:
Spoiler:
Battalion:
CCB - Lightning Field, SoL, Tesla cannon
Cryptek - SoL, Chronometron
Lord - Ress Orb, Veil of Darkness, Warscythe
10 Tesla Immortals
2x15 Warriors
8 Deathmarks
Stalker
DDA (Only 1 I have)
Outrider - Novokh
Cryptek - Cloak (He'll need mobility), SoL
2x8 Scarabs
5 Wraiths - Particle Casters
So the reason I'm asking for advice is not to make it more competitive, but trying to figure out Dynasty for the Battalion. I was thinking Mephrit because it brings a lot of things, a nasty warlord trait, a good artifact, and since I have a small silvertide list, the -1 to AP sounds delicious. I like this list because it gives me a lot of flexibility in deploying. I can easily negate large parts from deepstriking or bubblewrap the CCB and DDA easily enough. Or I can take the center of the field and move forward while getting full support. Also not sure on the kit for the stalker yet.
Any other thoughts or suggestions?
[We're asking that everyone please be considerate and spoiler their lists to save the amount of page real estate everyone has to scroll through]
As for suggestions,
Bear in mind that Mephrit only works within 12" for most of our army, which is typically not where certain units want to be (ie. Warriors)
Deathmarks love Mephrit, though. Don't know if you caught the combo on on of the earlier pages, but 10x Gauss Immortals + a Lord w/ SoL dropping in with 10x Deathmarks does a lot of damage.
For the Stalker, I don't know if you have anything else you can swap out for the points, but that unit is generally considered not really worth it (it's not bad, it's just there tends to be better things to spend points on). However, with only one DDA in the list it may help take the heat off of it, so might come in handy after all (the two of them have generally always played well together)
So how have people adapted to the FAQ changes? Its forced me to bring a O/lord with the VoD for my Destroyers...which i suppose has made them better so long as they survive/i go first.
Ive been toying around with ctan with great success, to the point where I have been playing little else atm, as I adore c'tan these days.
Trying out sautekh for the first time tomorrow, then going to run infantry spam... but i cant seem to build a list that I like anywhere near as much as either triple vault or C'tan and destroyer spam.....
Klowny wrote: So how have people adapted to the FAQ changes? Its forced me to bring a O/lord with the VoD for my Destroyers...which i suppose has made them better so long as they survive/i go first.
Ive been toying around with ctan with great success, to the point where I have been playing little else atm, as I adore c'tan these days.
Trying out sautekh for the first time tomorrow, then going to run infantry spam... but i cant seem to build a list that I like anywhere near as much as either triple vault or C'tan and destroyer spam.....
C'Tans have ben doing well for me. Using Grand Illusion to move up the board with a scarab swarm, followed by advancing infantry up the mid field can be pretty scary.
My group has been doing the FAQ, but it hasn't really changed at all how we play. It only mattered for the T'au player who brought multiple min squads of Stealthsuits. Now they have to bring them all in squads of 6 and worry about morale.
nintura wrote: Working on my initial army and here's what I've thought about using for this month's 2k game:
Spoiler:
Battalion:
CCB - Lightning Field, SoL, Tesla cannon
Cryptek - SoL, Chronometron
Lord - Ress Orb, Veil of Darkness, Warscythe
10 Tesla Immortals
2x15 Warriors
8 Deathmarks
Stalker
DDA (Only 1 I have)
Outrider - Novokh
Cryptek - Cloak (He'll need mobility), SoL
2x8 Scarabs
5 Wraiths - Particle Casters
So the reason I'm asking for advice is not to make it more competitive, but trying to figure out Dynasty for the Battalion. I was thinking Mephrit because it brings a lot of things, a nasty warlord trait, a good artifact, and since I have a small silvertide list, the -1 to AP sounds delicious. I like this list because it gives me a lot of flexibility in deploying. I can easily negate large parts from deepstriking or bubblewrap the CCB and DDA easily enough. Or I can take the center of the field and move forward while getting full support. Also not sure on the kit for the stalker yet.
Any other thoughts or suggestions?
[We're asking that everyone please be considerate and spoiler their lists to save the amount of page real estate everyone has to scroll through]
As for suggestions,
Bear in mind that Mephrit only works within 12" for most of our army, which is typically not where certain units want to be (ie. Warriors)
Deathmarks love Mephrit, though. Don't know if you caught the combo on on of the earlier pages, but 10x Gauss Immortals + a Lord w/ SoL dropping in with 10x Deathmarks does a lot of damage.
For the Stalker, I don't know if you have anything else you can swap out for the points, but that unit is generally considered not really worth it (it's not bad, it's just there tends to be better things to spend points on). However, with only one DDA in the list it may help take the heat off of it, so might come in handy after all (the two of them have generally always played well together)
People keep saying that....the issue is that most of our units are rapid fire within 12 inches....so you do want to be there, you just need to screen and be smart about it. I have never had issues with getting into range for the mephrit to be applicable. The nephrek code is useful, but it's not used ALL the time.....neither is mephrit.
I run the nightbringer and transcendent a lot, screened by wraiths. IMO the nightbringer is still the best of the three, and double tapping ctan powers is just disgusting. Neprekh with a chrono-tek (11"m) usually keeps them all buffed up (chaining my destroyers and wraiths to get the most value of RP possible has induced much salt).
I was talking more regarding destroyers being forced to come in t2..... not sure how I feel about it, I feel we are too expensive points wise as an army to give away two rounds of shooting before we can delete a critical enemy unit. But VoD and MWBD makes them silly killy.
Klowny wrote: I run the nightbringer and transcendent a lot, screened by wraiths. IMO the nightbringer is still the best of the three, and double tapping ctan powers is just disgusting. Neprekh with a chrono-tek (11"m) usually keeps them all buffed up (chaining my destroyers and wraiths to get the most value of RP possible has induced much salt).
I was talking more regarding destroyers being forced to come in t2..... not sure how I feel about it, I feel we are too expensive points wise as an army to give away two rounds of shooting before we can delete a critical enemy unit. But VoD and MWBD makes them silly killy.
According to last FAQ they lose MWBD of they go by VoD
Klowny wrote: I run the nightbringer and transcendent a lot, screened by wraiths. IMO the nightbringer is still the best of the three, and double tapping ctan powers is just disgusting. Neprekh with a chrono-tek (11"m) usually keeps them all buffed up (chaining my destroyers and wraiths to get the most value of RP possible has induced much salt).
I was talking more regarding destroyers being forced to come in t2..... not sure how I feel about it, I feel we are too expensive points wise as an army to give away two rounds of shooting before we can delete a critical enemy unit. But VoD and MWBD makes them silly killy.
According to last FAQ they lose MWBD of they go by VoD
Yep, that's why a Chrono-tek w/ Veil is usually the better take if you want to turn 1 alpha with them (for increased survivability, as they're already killy enough with EP). Be sure to coordinate with triple DDAs as well for maximum hurt. And Nephrekh Wraiths with the AS strat to hopefully pull off a cross table charge and engage whatever they might have that can threaten the Destroyers. The only other things you can get into their side of the table turn one would be TBs and Flyers, but at that point it's too many things committed to just trying to keep 300 points of Destroyer alive. Probably better to just go for redundancy and get a second unit of 6 that can drop in turn 2 to finish the job.
According to last FAQ they lose MWBD of they go by VoD
Why do people keep saying this? The FAQ only applies to removing and set up via strategem specifically. RAW It does not apply to relics or abilities. Its there to help keep tide of traitors in line. As a second point from what has been hashed out previously, MWBD is not a "persistent effect" as it has a built in duration. Things like Orikan's transformation or the Szeras buff are persistent as they continue indefinitely as long as the unit remains alive.
Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll def be looking at adding Anrakyr a try. I just looked at the other codes and wasn't really impressed with them to fit a core battalion with lots of warriors. but then this will be my first necron game since 5th edition, so I'm sure my opinion will be changed a lot. The awesome part is I have an Anrakyr model still in blister. The bad part is it's still finecast....
I've been thinking about the T. C'tan and his Split Personality upgrades;
Let's assume that getting a random result of a 1 or a 2 is our goal, anything else is extra.
The chance of getting 1 or 2 on two dice is 66%. However, since you can technically re-roll both dice with CP (it's not in a phase) You can up the chance greatly.
I dunno I just feel like.... by picking one upgrade, you might as well go for the Nightbringer. But with two upgrades (and one of them being a 1 or a 2) he can perform a lot better.
I think it's good they're pointing out useful combos....but I feel like they're really trying to justify all the comments they've made previously about how powerful the codex would be.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just FYI, there's a batrep (2k points) of Death Korps vs Necrons. I haven't watched it as I'm at work. Anyone seen it yet?
So I've been looking at building around the 'Anrakyr Tide' as alluded to in the article.
Basically you have a module of:
Anrakyr
Szeras (Immortal Pride)
2x20 Warriors
1x10 Warriors
Ghost Ark.
This is 1070 points for the module.
Now I've been looking at Novokh Dynasty, but you could technically run it as anything.
The question is what sort of immediate threats do you put in for the rest of the points available so that your opponent doesn't take off 20 Warriors in one turn to deny RP, with the aim of attritioning over a couple turns so they then don't have enough to take off 20 Warriors in one go.
I usually play 1750 but you could say 2k, w.e.
Do you just run 12 Destroyers, or 12 Wraiths? Or do you Hail Mary 10 Scytheguard in with VoD? 3 Doomsdays?
“Anrakyr makes a very, very powerful HQ choice (especially if you Veil or otherwise transport him into position to buff your charging Infantry units).”
I thought because he lacks a Dynasty keyword he can’t use transports/vehicles or the Veil? (which both are restricted to Dynasty infantry models).
[[don't actually remember if this was addressed/resolved before]]
I thought because he lacks a Dynasty keyword he can’t use transports/vehicles or the Veil? (which both are restricted to Dynasty infantry models).
[[don't actually remember if this was addressed/resolved before]]
I think there is some good fodder there for GW to Errata - especially with terrible wording on our Monolith & Night Scythe - them not being transports and it not being entirely clear if models coming out of them count as disembarking or can move after popping out.
Deceiver can put Anrakyr up in some cover along with some kind of screen (scarabs?) and then Anrakyr can waddle up into position for flayed ones or veil'd lychguard to drop in and give them the +1A via leaving a little daisy chain to keep within the aura. It can be hard to make use of Anrakyr's MWBD in this scenario since he'll be up front hanging out and waiting for turn 2 (maybe put an infantry unit up there to chill with him).
Doctoralex wrote: I've been thinking about the T. C'tan and his Split Personality upgrades;
Let's assume that getting a random result of a 1 or a 2 is our goal, anything else is extra.
The chance of getting 1 or 2 on two dice is 66%. However, since you can technically re-roll both dice with CP (it's not in a phase) You can up the chance greatly.
I dunno I just feel like.... by picking one upgrade, you might as well go for the Nightbringer. But with two upgrades (and one of them being a 1 or a 2) he can perform a lot better.
People keep saying that....the issue is that most of our units are rapid fire within 12 inches....so you do want to be there, you just need to screen and be smart about it. I have never had issues with getting into range for the mephrit to be applicable. The nephrek code is useful, but it's not used ALL the time.....neither is mephrit.
I think Mephrit makes most sense for warrior heavy lists. Assuming you can keep the blobs alive, their biggest problem is their low damage output. 2 Warrior blobs are expensive so need to be contributing to the fight, which means getting into rapids. Mephrit + Anrakyr significantly increases their damage output. I have looked at using Novokh for them too (I'm guessing that's what the FLG article is about), but that seems more for fun than really effective.
People keep saying that....the issue is that most of our units are rapid fire within 12 inches....so you do want to be there, you just need to screen and be smart about it. I have never had issues with getting into range for the mephrit to be applicable. The nephrek code is useful, but it's not used ALL the time.....neither is mephrit.
I think Mephrit makes most sense for warrior heavy lists. Assuming you can keep the blobs alive, their biggest problem is their low damage output. 2 Warrior blobs are expensive so need to be contributing to the fight, which means getting into rapids. Mephrit + Anrakyr significantly increases their damage output. I have looked at using Novokh for them too (I'm guessing that's what the FLG article is about), but that seems more for fun than really effective.
I think Sautekh better helps silver tide. First, Orikan helps warriors a lot with 5++ against both shooting and combat. Second, shooting after advance is good ability for warriors. I dont believe that good opponent would give you targets against which that matters into rapid fire range of mephrit blob - without advance warriors are too slow and easy to engage.
My current silver tide list i had 2 games with:
Spoiler:
Sautekh +5 CP
HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Nephrekh +1 CP HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
People keep saying that....the issue is that most of our units are rapid fire within 12 inches....so you do want to be there, you just need to screen and be smart about it. I have never had issues with getting into range for the mephrit to be applicable. The nephrek code is useful, but it's not used ALL the time.....neither is mephrit.
I think Mephrit makes most sense for warrior heavy lists. Assuming you can keep the blobs alive, their biggest problem is their low damage output. 2 Warrior blobs are expensive so need to be contributing to the fight, which means getting into rapids. Mephrit + Anrakyr significantly increases their damage output. I have looked at using Novokh for them too (I'm guessing that's what the FLG article is about), but that seems more for fun than really effective.
I think Sautekh better helps silver tide. First, Orikan helps warriors a lot with 5++ against both shooting and combat. Second, shooting after advance is good ability for warriors. I dont believe that good opponent would give you targets against which that matters into rapid fire range of mephrit blob - without advance warriors are too slow and easy to engage.
My current silver tide list i had 2 games with:
Spoiler:
Sautekh +5 CP
HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Nephrekh +1 CP HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Total: 1999
CP: 9
So no ghost ark in there? I'd want to use it if I first was going silver tide, thogugh I realize it might still not make sense.
Yeah, Ghost Ark seems mandatory for silver tide. Like, Silver Tide is never going to be very competitive, but if you're going to do it you might as well go all in.
I don't like Sautekh for Warriors that much. I've played Sautekh a lot with Immortals and never once used the advance and shoot ability on my Gauss. Orikan is very nice though, I wish he didn't have a Dynasty!
I've never had a problem getting warriors into range in a silver tide list. If the opponent is staying away from them they are basically avoiding my whole army while I take the center. Maybe I haven't fought enough gunlines. Warriors also seem to work best as a 2nd wave anyway, so that the opponents damage output is reduced when they come to deal with them.
A generally good strategy in 8th is to have characters hiding in a swarm of infantry, which makes C'tan nice with silver tide, and deceiver helps with mobility.
When I run a Silver tide list I try to set the game up so that on turn 3ish I have two Warrior blobs gathered around Anrakyr, a Cryptek, and the Deceiver, all sat in the center of the board. That chunk of stuff, at that stage in the game, becomes incredibly hard to deal with.
All that said, I quite like -Sentinel-s list.
Edit: Something I've found running silver tide: Your infantry horde will always be gathered around a "nucleus" of buff characters, and the positioning of this nucleus is very important. When Warriors start dying the last casualties to be removed will be the ones in range of the auras, a smart opponent will know this, and position his attacking units to have range and line of sight to those Warriors. Consequently you need to make this nucleus as hard to get to as possible- keep the Cryptek in particular towards the back of the formation and out of sight, daisy chaining as necessary.
I'm struggling how best to gear Silver Tide for mobility.
The core of it will be: 2x20 Warriors, Ghost Ark = 650pt
Then also: 10 immortals, 6 destroyers, 6 wraiths = 800pt
HQs: Flavor of Overlord, Flavor of Lord, Flavor of Cryptek
If possible: DDA
I am working with the following ideas:
Sautekh
Sautekh code means advancing warriors is a viable way to get them to the center
- 2 x Warriors advance up towards the center
- Supporting HQs move with them
- Ghost Ark hovers close behind them
- Wraiths advance up to draw fire
- Immortals provide horde control
- Destroyers move up prioritizing targets that threaten warriors (larger models with anti infantry weapons)
There are likely targets for advancing warriors at turn 1, (8.5" + 24" = 32.5"), but they have limited killing power. Each blob kills 4-6 guardsmen/fire warriors/ork boyz or 2-3 genestealers/space marines. Add 1-2 for MWBD.
Hopefully Wraiths will draw most of the fire, being 7" ahead of the warriors.
Nephrekh
- Wraiths dart up 18"
- Warriors probably still advance
- HQs and Ghost Ark follow
- Destroyers deep strike
Suddenly deep striking destroyers are the pivot point of the strategy. Less silver tidy.
Mephrit
Shoehorn in the Deceiver.
Redeploy in order: Wraiths, Warriors, HQ #1.
Wraiths take the point close as possible to enemy lines with Deceiver close behind. Warriors almost near the center, letting HQs still connect from deployment zone
If one only one warrior gets there, HQ #2 VoD the other 20. If no warriors get up there even with reroll, consider if they go instead of wraiths, plan B and onward are quite crappy.
Destroyers move up behind the warriors to draw some fire and kill things that would threaten the Tide.
Nihilakh and Novolh: Wariants of Mephrit strategy, but probably less optimal.
Common to all is that Wraiths provide a much larger threat than warriors. Also Destroyers are in it because that killing power is hard to pass up. And Ghost Ark has to be there because Silver Tide.
All strategies feel somewhat unpolished still. Not quite sure how to nail the Tide.
So no ghost ark in there? I'd want to use it if I first was going silver tide, thogugh I realize it might still not make sense.
In games i played there are 2 ways how things happens:
1. warrior blob reduced from 19 to 5 models. I roll 14 protocols, 7 make it. Ghost arc can save another 3-4 warriors, which will give it long time to take it points back.
2. warrior blob reduced to 0 models. No need for ghost arc
If i had spare points, i would prefer ressurection orb, but its still takes away some damage potential from the list which is already not that big. So i like it as it is.
So no ghost ark in there? I'd want to use it if I first was going silver tide, thogugh I realize it might still not make sense.
In games i played there are 2 ways how things happens:
1. warrior blob reduced from 19 to 5 models. I roll 14 protocols, 7 make it. Ghost arc can save another 3-4 warriors, which will give it long time to take it points back.
2. warrior blob reduced to 0 models. No need for ghost arc
If i had spare points, i would prefer ressurection orb, but its still takes away some damage potential from the list which is already not that big. So i like it as it is.
There's also it supporting 2 blobs now, its 10 rapid fire shots, and the CC deterrent (it jumps ahead, charges the CC threat, flyes out, shoots, warriors left intact)
Klowny wrote: I run the nightbringer and transcendent a lot, screened by wraiths. IMO the nightbringer is still the best of the three, and double tapping ctan powers is just disgusting. Neprekh with a chrono-tek (11"m) usually keeps them all buffed up (chaining my destroyers and wraiths to get the most value of RP possible has induced much salt).
I was talking more regarding destroyers being forced to come in t2..... not sure how I feel about it, I feel we are too expensive points wise as an army to give away two rounds of shooting before we can delete a critical enemy unit. But VoD and MWBD makes them silly killy.
According to last FAQ they lose MWBD of they go by VoD
While it's always best to wipe a Warrior blob in one turn, you can still grind them down over a few turns, especially if RP rolls go bad. The Ghost Ark giving double RP means that you really have to finish the blob in one turn or you wasted your time. It also helps protect against a bad round of RP rolls.
The point of warriors is that, with a supported blob, they're very durable.... You have to concentrate firepower. If you're doing the shooting phase properly and all Targets that are going to be shot by a unit are declared before any dice are rolled, chances are people are going to underestimate the amount of Firepower it takes or overestimate the amount of Firepower it takes to wipe a unit.
This is always a good thing. Also I think Warriors need to be used for their intended role, which is attrition. They aren't supposed to go out and cause a massive amount of damage, they are going to do well at soaking up fire, creating Target priority issues, and holding objectives. They're not so weak that someone can ignore them. They will have to be dealt with.
I think that if you are using good Target priority and hit your opponent somewhere that it hurts with a group of warriors you're going to force them to recognize it's a threat they have to deal with.
Of course, Immortals are better at damage output, but not surviving. They can be more independent. Warriors can buy them time to operate and also grab objectives, etc.
punisher357 wrote: If you're doing the shooting phase properly and all Targets that are going to be shot are declared before any dice are rolled,.
Not sure if I'm misunderstanding the way you wrote that, but that's not how it works. You pick a unit, pick all it's targets, roll dice, then pick your next unit and repeat. You don't have to declare your whole shooting phase in advance.
Hey, need some help tweaking up my list for a tournament. This is a tune-up of my list that already performed pretty well. I know i'll be facing various armies, like T.sons, Raven guard with 14 land speeders and some other, so goes from fast to heavy armor to 3++/4++ saves.
You could save points by putting the DDAs into the Sautekh detachment and dropping the extra HQ. With your spare Scarab that gives you about 100pts for either 2 more Destroyers or maybe taking Imotekh instead of the Overlord (he will get you +1CP then another +1CP per turn if you were going to use the extra MWBD strat). You loose the reroll 1's, but will be able to move and shoot, and have the option for Methodical Destruction on the DDAs- good vs superheavies.
Other things to think about might be:
Putting the VoD on a Sautekh character to teleport immortals while both Destroyer units deep strike. You could take 1 unit of Gauss Imms for this.
Making the Nephrek HQ Szeras so he can support the Immortal blob (he has no dynasty), then have a lord + overlord in the battalion. That would let all the HQs support the Troops despite being from different detachments. Alternatively, you could take Anrakyr in the Outrider for the same reason and have lord + cryptek in the battalion.
Good advices. Thanks. Don't have Szeras though, but do Anrakyr.
nintura wrote: Working on my initial army and here's what I've thought about using for this month's 2k game:
Spoiler:
Battalion:
CCB - Lightning Field, SoL, Tesla cannon
Cryptek - SoL, Chronometron
Lord - Ress Orb, Veil of Darkness, Warscythe
10 Tesla Immortals
2x15 Warriors
8 Deathmarks
Stalker
DDA (Only 1 I have)
Outrider - Novokh
Cryptek - Cloak (He'll need mobility), SoL
2x8 Scarabs
5 Wraiths - Particle Casters
So the reason I'm asking for advice is not to make it more competitive, but trying to figure out Dynasty for the Battalion. I was thinking Mephrit because it brings a lot of things, a nasty warlord trait, a good artifact, and since I have a small silvertide list, the -1 to AP sounds delicious. I like this list because it gives me a lot of flexibility in deploying. I can easily negate large parts from deepstriking or bubblewrap the CCB and DDA easily enough. Or I can take the center of the field and move forward while getting full support. Also not sure on the kit for the stalker yet.
Any other thoughts or suggestions?
[We're asking that everyone please be considerate and spoiler their lists to save the amount of page real estate everyone has to scroll through]
As for suggestions,
Bear in mind that Mephrit only works within 12" for most of our army, which is typically not where certain units want to be (ie. Warriors)
Deathmarks love Mephrit, though. Don't know if you caught the combo on on of the earlier pages, but 10x Gauss Immortals + a Lord w/ SoL dropping in with 10x Deathmarks does a lot of damage.
For the Stalker, I don't know if you have anything else you can swap out for the points, but that unit is generally considered not really worth it (it's not bad, it's just there tends to be better things to spend points on). However, with only one DDA in the list it may help take the heat off of it, so might come in handy after all (the two of them have generally always played well together)
People keep saying that....the issue is that most of our units are rapid fire within 12 inches....so you do want to be there, you just need to screen and be smart about it. I have never had issues with getting into range for the mephrit to be applicable. The nephrek code is useful, but it's not used ALL the time.....neither is mephrit.
Mephrit works with Warriors, Ghost Arks, Doomsday ark if you start on the frontlines, Gauss immortals, Deathmarks, Guass tomb blade with nebuloscope (just go kill any scout unit hidden in cover), even Monoliths deepstrike at 9'' and get -3AP which changes everything for the monolith.
I thinks its a wasted on everything tesla since you want to stay at maximum range with those, and heavy would benefit more from suatekh.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Klowny wrote: I run the nightbringer and transcendent a lot, screened by wraiths. IMO the nightbringer is still the best of the three, and double tapping ctan powers is just disgusting. Neprekh with a chrono-tek (11"m) usually keeps them all buffed up (chaining my destroyers and wraiths to get the most value of RP possible has induced much salt).
I was talking more regarding destroyers being forced to come in t2..... not sure how I feel about it, I feel we are too expensive points wise as an army to give away two rounds of shooting before we can delete a critical enemy unit. But VoD and MWBD makes them silly killy.
Destroyers can come on T1, in your zone, and still shoot at 24'' which is often enough to shoot your ket target (if you lost initialive). Else deepstriking on T2 is not all bad, usually the enemy advanced and left some blank in his rear. Plus he his possibly focused on trying to bring down your infantry / arks. ANd you are 100% SURE your destroyed weren,t destroyed on T1
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: So I've been looking at building around the 'Anrakyr Tide' as alluded to in the article.
Basically you have a module of:
Anrakyr
Szeras (Immortal Pride)
2x20 Warriors
1x10 Warriors
Ghost Ark.
This is 1070 points for the module.
Now I've been looking at Novokh Dynasty, but you could technically run it as anything.
The question is what sort of immediate threats do you put in for the rest of the points available so that your opponent doesn't take off 20 Warriors in one turn to deny RP, with the aim of attritioning over a couple turns so they then don't have enough to take off 20 Warriors in one go.
I usually play 1750 but you could say 2k, w.e.
Do you just run 12 Destroyers, or 12 Wraiths? Or do you Hail Mary 10 Scytheguard in with VoD? 3 Doomsdays?
I would get ANrakyr as Warlord and get 5 squads Flayed ones. They can freely deepstrike at 9'' and with charge reroll, some of them will get in contact. All Novokh of course. Can support with a second layer of Lychguards. Hell even pretorians ate good with Anrakyr + Szersas
punisher357 wrote: If you're doing the shooting phase properly and all Targets that are going to be shot are declared before any dice are rolled,.
Not sure if I'm misunderstanding the way you wrote that, but that's not how it works. You pick a unit, pick all it's targets, roll dice, then pick your next unit and repeat. You don't have to declare your whole shooting phase in advance.
I edited it now...I can see how that was confusing. My apologies.
“Anrakyr makes a very, very powerful HQ choice (especially if you Veil or otherwise transport him into position to buff your charging Infantry units).”
I thought because he lacks a Dynasty keyword he can’t use transports/vehicles or the Veil? (which both are restricted to Dynasty infantry models).
[[don't actually remember if this was addressed/resolved before]]
Didn't they FAQ this?
Page 117 – Named Characters and Warlord Traits
Add the following sentence to the end of the paragraph:
‘If either Illuminor Szeras or Anrakyr the Traveller is
your Warlord, then replace the <Dynasty> keyword in
their Warlord Trait with Necron.’
Maybe I am understanding it wrong, but if they are your WARLORD, they gain the trait. Is that right?
Page 117 – Named Characters and Warlord Traits
Add the following sentence to the end of the paragraph:
‘If either Illuminor Szeras or Anrakyr the Traveller is
your Warlord, then replace the <Dynasty> keyword in
their Warlord Trait with Necron.’
Maybe I am understanding it wrong, but if they are your WARLORD, they gain the trait. Is that right?
From what I understand, it only affects the Warlord trait's wording to allow them to actually use them. It unfortunately doesn't address other things that are Dynasty specific like VoD and Transports
Page 117 – Named Characters and Warlord Traits
Add the following sentence to the end of the paragraph:
‘If either Illuminor Szeras or Anrakyr the Traveller is
your Warlord, then replace the <Dynasty> keyword in
their Warlord Trait with Necron.’
Maybe I am understanding it wrong, but if they are your WARLORD, they gain the trait. Is that right?
From what I understand, it only affects the Warlord trait's wording to allow them to actually use them. It unfortunately doesn't address other things that are Dynasty specific like VoD and Transports
Yeah, find their Warlords trait and replace as instructed.
Has anyone considered putting a unit in an auxiliary support detachment, to get a specific dynasty ? You wouldnt have to pay the extra points for a patrol for a cryptek and a troop choice, but it would be -1 CP. The battallion could be sautekh for the CP regen warlord trait and MD strat, an outrider with wraith and scarabs as novokh and destroyers only as nephrekh to deepstrike them. Problem is you would need szeras to reanimate the destroyers, a sautekh or novokh cryptek cant do it.
p5freak wrote: Has anyone considered putting a unit in an auxiliary support detachment, to get a specific dynasty ? You wouldnt have to pay the extra points for a patrol for a cryptek and a troop choice, but it would be -1 CP. The battallion could be sautekh for the CP regen warlord trait and MD strat, an outrider with wraith and scarabs as novokh and destroyers only as nephrekh to deepstrike them. Problem is you would need szeras to reanimate the destroyers, a sautekh or novokh cryptek cant do it.
Yeah that idea has been thrown around a few times. Mainly just Auxiliary Sautekh Warlord for not Sautekh armies and Nephrekh Destroyers for DS.
Auxiliary Sautekh Warlord is great when running something like a Mephrit army, while the Auxiliary Nephrekh Destroyers are less viable considering the fact that you are probably already taking 2 units of Scarabs. The only real "tax" would be the needed HQ for an Outrider, but a Choro-Tek helps the Destroyers out immensely. Personally I would only consider the Auxiliary Sautekh Warlord, as there is rarely a reason not to upgrade a unit of Auxiliary Nephrekh Destroyers to a Nephrekh Outrider Detachment.
Wiggling around HQ and detachment choices to get the right balance of Dynasties and CPs while keeping the tax to a minimum is quite the art form for crons.
Auxiliary detachments and Dynasty-less characters are tricks to help with this, but whether or not they are a good choice comes down to the specifics of each particular list. Whenever you finish a list you really need to give it a second look to see if there's any way to minimize the amount of tax you're paying. Maybe hire an accountant.
-A unit of Novokh/Nephrekh Wraiths. Can pretty much perform on their own.
-A full unit of Mephrit Tomb blades. While they can benefit from a Cryptek, they can zoom forward and do a lot of damage. Methodical Destruction also works fine on a solo-operating unit.
-A unit of Mephrit Deathmarks. Ditto to the Tomb Blades.
Doctoralex wrote: -A full unit of Mephrit Tomb blades. While they can benefit from a Cryptek, they can zoom forward and do a lot of damage. Methodical Destruction also works fine on a solo-operating unit.
Methodical Destruction would be a waste of 2 CP if only a single unit can contribute to it. It is used against units that absolutely have to die this turn, and the whole army is shooting at it to make the most out of that +1 to hit.
People keep saying that....the issue is that most of our units are rapid fire within 12 inches....so you do want to be there, you just need to screen and be smart about it. I have never had issues with getting into range for the mephrit to be applicable. The nephrek code is useful, but it's not used ALL the time.....neither is mephrit.
I think Mephrit makes most sense for warrior heavy lists. Assuming you can keep the blobs alive, their biggest problem is their low damage output. 2 Warrior blobs are expensive so need to be contributing to the fight, which means getting into rapids. Mephrit + Anrakyr significantly increases their damage output. I have looked at using Novokh for them too (I'm guessing that's what the FLG article is about), but that seems more for fun than really effective.
I think Sautekh better helps silver tide. First, Orikan helps warriors a lot with 5++ against both shooting and combat. Second, shooting after advance is good ability for warriors. I dont believe that good opponent would give you targets against which that matters into rapid fire range of mephrit blob - without advance warriors are too slow and easy to engage.
My current silver tide list i had 2 games with:
Spoiler:
Sautekh +5 CP
HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Nephrekh +1 CP HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Total: 1999
CP: 9
So no ghost ark in there? I'd want to use it if I first was going silver tide, thogugh I realize it might still not make sense.
Quick question looking good similar to something I am working on I am wondering why 19 warriors is that the sweet spot for dog out and morale and RP
p5freak wrote: Has anyone considered putting a unit in an auxiliary support detachment, to get a specific dynasty ? You wouldnt have to pay the extra points for a patrol for a cryptek and a troop choice, but it would be -1 CP. The battallion could be sautekh for the CP regen warlord trait and MD strat, an outrider with wraith and scarabs as novokh and destroyers only as nephrekh to deepstrike them. Problem is you would need szeras to reanimate the destroyers, a sautekh or novokh cryptek cant do it.
Yeah that idea has been thrown around a few times. Mainly just Auxiliary Sautekh Warlord for not Sautekh armies and Nephrekh Destroyers for DS.
Auxiliary Sautekh Warlord is great when running something like a Mephrit army, while the Auxiliary Nephrekh Destroyers are less viable considering the fact that you are probably already taking 2 units of Scarabs. The only real "tax" would be the needed HQ for an Outrider, but a Choro-Tek helps the Destroyers out immensely. Personally I would only consider the Auxiliary Sautekh Warlord, as there is rarely a reason not to upgrade a unit of Auxiliary Nephrekh Destroyers to a Nephrekh Outrider Detachment.
Want to clarify, if you take Sautekh Destroyers and move and advance the heavy weapons become Assault weapons and the -1 to hit goes into effect? Or does the Destoryer Repulsor Platform rule override the -1?
People keep saying that....the issue is that most of our units are rapid fire within 12 inches....so you do want to be there, you just need to screen and be smart about it. I have never had issues with getting into range for the mephrit to be applicable. The nephrek code is useful, but it's not used ALL the time.....neither is mephrit.
I think Mephrit makes most sense for warrior heavy lists. Assuming you can keep the blobs alive, their biggest problem is their low damage output. 2 Warrior blobs are expensive so need to be contributing to the fight, which means getting into rapids. Mephrit + Anrakyr significantly increases their damage output. I have looked at using Novokh for them too (I'm guessing that's what the FLG article is about), but that seems more for fun than really effective.
I think Sautekh better helps silver tide. First, Orikan helps warriors a lot with 5++ against both shooting and combat. Second, shooting after advance is good ability for warriors. I dont believe that good opponent would give you targets against which that matters into rapid fire range of mephrit blob - without advance warriors are too slow and easy to engage.
My current silver tide list i had 2 games with:
Spoiler:
Sautekh +5 CP
HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Nephrekh +1 CP HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Total: 1999
CP: 9
So no ghost ark in there? I'd want to use it if I first was going silver tide, thogugh I realize it might still not make sense.
Quick question looking good similar to something I am working on I am wondering why 19 warriors is that the sweet spot for dog out and morale and RP
I think its due to an objective in...maybe ITC format that has to do with killing blocks of 10 models in large units. 19 models...denies that point in that format I guess?
New user I have just read through the grading of the units is Tesla Immortals really our best unit even with no AP I play against marines all the time so would this still be the case what code would you guys say is best for them I am looking at a Stormlord Orikan Lord HQ and trying to get A the Traveller in there somehow
People keep saying that....the issue is that most of our units are rapid fire within 12 inches....so you do want to be there, you just need to screen and be smart about it. I have never had issues with getting into range for the mephrit to be applicable. The nephrek code is useful, but it's not used ALL the time.....neither is mephrit.
I think Mephrit makes most sense for warrior heavy lists. Assuming you can keep the blobs alive, their biggest problem is their low damage output. 2 Warrior blobs are expensive so need to be contributing to the fight, which means getting into rapids. Mephrit + Anrakyr significantly increases their damage output. I have looked at using Novokh for them too (I'm guessing that's what the FLG article is about), but that seems more for fun than really effective.
I think Sautekh better helps silver tide. First, Orikan helps warriors a lot with 5++ against both shooting and combat. Second, shooting after advance is good ability for warriors. I dont believe that good opponent would give you targets against which that matters into rapid fire range of mephrit blob - without advance warriors are too slow and easy to engage.
My current silver tide list i had 2 games with:
Spoiler:
Sautekh +5 CP
HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Nephrekh +1 CP HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Total: 1999
CP: 9
So no ghost ark in there? I'd want to use it if I first was going silver tide, thogugh I realize it might still not make sense.
Quick question looking good similar to something I am working on I am wondering why 19 warriors is that the sweet spot for dog out and morale and RP
I think its due to an objective in...maybe ITC format that has to do with killing blocks of 10 models in large units. 19 models...denies that point in that format I guess?
Yes, at 20 models you give up secondary points if you wipe the squad. Its tailoring to ITC format.
Hello guys..
I've got a game coming up against a gold banana and guard list coming up.
Here is the list I'm thinking of running I used it against a 1k son list and tabled them turn 4 with minimal casualties (wraiths) to my self.
The warlord trait is hyper strat on the cryptek for the cp.
Please all critic's welcome
Doctoralex wrote: -A full unit of Mephrit Tomb blades. While they can benefit from a Cryptek, they can zoom forward and do a lot of damage. Methodical Destruction also works fine on a solo-operating unit.
Methodical Destruction would be a waste of 2 CP if only a single unit can contribute to it. It is used against units that absolutely have to die this turn, and the whole army is shooting at it to make the most out of that +1 to hit.
Sorry I meant Talent for Annihilation. Always get those two confused.
Dynas wrote: Want to clarify, if you take Sautekh Destroyers and move and advance the heavy weapons become Assault weapons and the -1 to hit goes into effect? Or does the Destoryer Repulsor Platform rule override the -1?
If sautekh destroyers advance they get -1 to hit because of assault weapons advancing.
Sn33R wrote: Hello guys..
I've got a game coming up against a gold banana and guard list coming up.
Here is the list I'm thinking of running I used it against a 1k son list and tabled them turn 4 with minimal casualties (wraiths) to my self.
The warlord trait is hyper strat on the cryptek for the cp.
Please all critic's welcome
#### Heavy Support ####
* **Doomsday Ark**
* **Doomsday Ark**
* **Doomsday Ark**
### Total: [113 PL, 1989pts] ###
Looks good, though I would take pure Sautekh, not Mephrit. Its a trap. Also, if you can drop partical casters on wraiths and see if you can get and extra destroyer. Also, not sure, but you may want to go 6 and 3 on the unit sizes rather than 4/5, that way you have a 6 man sq for your stratagems.
Dynas wrote: Want to clarify, if you take Sautekh Destroyers and move and advance the heavy weapons become Assault weapons and the -1 to hit goes into effect? Or does the Destoryer Repulsor Platform rule override the -1?
If sautekh destroyers advance they get -1 to hit because of assault weapons advancing.
I thinks its a wasted on everything tesla since you want to stay at maximum range with those, and heavy would benefit more from suatekh.
The quote was in reference to the mephrit code..... I think that sautekh is good.... so is mephrit though.
Everyone is completely focused on the extra ap it gives... don't get me wrong, that's the big perk... you've got to look at the second aspect though.... That's the stratagem. You use that for tesla at 24 inch range and then as the gauss units you have close in they become a big threat too.
rvd1ofakind wrote: The stratagem isn't even good. I already can spend 12+ CP efficiently without it:
wraiths(1), destroyers(1), vaults(2), MWBD twice(1), random re-roll(1) = 6 CP spent turn 1 always
destroyers(1), vault(3), MWBD twice(1), random re-roll(1) = 6 CP turn 2.
Ok, I'll pick sautekh/mephrit for stratagems if I have 30 CP to play with. As it stands I get about 9... No thanks.
Being the case, it sounds like you're definitely going to be wanting a Sautekh warlord for Strategist trait if you're burning through that much CP so quickly.
I mean, I'm just saying that faction specific stratagems apart from the deepstrike 1 seem worthless to me. Like, I already have great-good enough things to spend CP on. So anything apart from nephrek deepstrike (which is unique and not just a damage increase) I really don't care about.
Guns look like they are 4 Gauss Cannons put together.
So maybe 8 S9 -4 D6 weapons? Skoffs won't want us wish listing but I'm happy to see a new model. Even if it's resin and looks like a pain to paint and assemble
Just amping up the power of everything feels like an excise for not being able to create something smaller that fits more nicely with the current meta and codex
Guns look like they are 4 Gauss Cannons put together.
So maybe 8 S9 -4 D6 weapons? Skoffs won't want us wish listing but I'm happy to see a new model. Even if it's resin and looks like a pain to paint and assemble
There's a smaller cannon underneath it too, attached to it
Just amping up the power of everything feels like an excise for not being able to create something smaller that fits more nicely with the current meta and codex
That is a fair statement. However, the other side of the coin is we now know what a Necron Titan-model looks like. My bet is it's going to be called a Triarch Sentinel.
Just amping up the power of everything feels like an excise for not being able to create something smaller that fits more nicely with the current meta and codex
That is a fair statement. However, the other side of the coin is we now know what a Necron Titan-model looks like. My bet is it's going to be called a Triarch Sentinel.
I thought it was butt ugly. A genetic experiment on an elephant gone horrendously wrong.
Then I also know I'm going to pay up to get the thing
The Voidreaper is nasty but I'm liking that Rampage equivalent one too. Destroyer Lords with that are hitting a great amount of the time (the 3+ rerolling ones is superior to the 2+ when you have one more attack in the first place).
That said I'm leaning towards the ghetto Celestine we can make instead with it. I know Celestine is already just stupid good in the first place (and already needed a price bump) but it would be an obnoxious tool (mostly for tying units up to prevent them from shooting) and one we wouldn't have to invest a lot in.
Honestly there are some tasty character builts, the mephrit CCB sniper, the Novohk murder machine or the unkillable Dlord. I can't find a list I want to slot them into is the trouble. I want DS'ing destroyers but I also want wraiths in my list and a few Novohk leaning choices. I'll probably sit on it all for a while and see what fits. What is cool though is that there are so many options that seem viable. I don't think necrons will be dominant at all but I still like what I am seeing quite a bit.
Could you please list off these character build very interesting to see them also any ideas for how to best use Anrakyr
Honestly there are some tasty character builts, the mephrit CCB sniper, the Novohk murder machine or the unkillable Dlord. I can't find a list I want to slot them into is the trouble. I want DS'ing destroyers but I also want wraiths in my list and a few Novohk leaning choices. I'll probably sit on it all for a while and see what fits. What is cool though is that there are so many options that seem viable. I don't think necrons will be dominant at all but I still like what I am seeing quite a bit.
Could you please list off these character build very interesting to see them also any ideas for how to best use Anrakyr
CCB with mephrit dynasty, mephrit warlord trait, tesla cannon. You can shoot enemy CHARACTERS from up to 30" away. If you are within 15" you get AP-1 on tesla. With VOD you can deepstrike the CCB and one INFANTRY unit. You can exchange the staff of light for the voltaic staff for even better distance firepower.
The unkillable Dlord is equipped with the nanoscarab casket, an artifact replacing the phylactery. He heals D3 wounds at the start of every players turn. You can give him the warlord trait where his inflicted damage is reduced by 1. When the Dlord dies the first time he gets up on 4+ with D6 wounds remaining. And of course, he heals D3 wounds at the start of every players turn. Should he die a second time you can use the resurrection protocols stratagem for 1CP. On a 4+ he gets up again with 1 wound remaining. And he once again heals D3 wounds at the start of every players turn. If he dies a third time he is gone, no more reviving.
Played some 1.5k games. And I gotta say, WOW necrons are squishy (As expected with my durability chart). I spent my entire game in cover, staying out of cultist RF range and traded blows and almost got tabled (he wasn't in cover). Like, I have no idea how mephrit is ever anything that would cross my mind with a glass cannon army. Especially because I'd rather stay in ruins and shoot instead of chase after that elusive 12'' range.
Nephrek netted me like 4 objectives and replaced HQ auras.
Also destroyers are just meh so far. I hope they get better. 5 did 7 wounds to obliterators :/
I won in the end because it was ITC and necrons love that.(2 out of 4 VP only for every secondary)
rvd1ofakind wrote: Played some 1.5k games. And I gotta say, WOW necrons are squishy (As expected with my durability chart). I spent my entire game in cover, staying out of cultist RF range and traded blows and almost got tabled (he wasn't in cover). Like, I have no idea how mephrit is ever anything that would cross my mind with a glass cannon army. Especially because I'd rather stay in ruins and shoot instead of chase after that elusive 12'' range.
Nephrek netted me like 4 objectives and replaced HQ auras.
Also destroyers are just meh so far. I hope they get better. 5 did 7 wounds to obliterators :/
I won in the end because it was ITC and necrons love that.(2 out of 4 VP only for every secondary)
Are Destroyers one of the most over hyped units of ALL time?
rvd1ofakind wrote: Played some 1.5k games. And I gotta say, WOW necrons are squishy (As expected with my durability chart). I spent my entire game in cover, staying out of cultist RF range and traded blows and almost got tabled (he wasn't in cover). Like, I have no idea how mephrit is ever anything that would cross my mind with a glass cannon army. Especially because I'd rather stay in ruins and shoot instead of chase after that elusive 12'' range.
Nephrek netted me like 4 objectives and replaced HQ auras.
Also destroyers are just meh so far. I hope they get better. 5 did 7 wounds to obliterators :/
I won in the end because it was ITC and necrons love that.(2 out of 4 VP only for every secondary)
Are Destroyers one of the most over hyped units of ALL time?
Not in the slightest, Destroyers are our best damage dealing unit while using EP.
What did you roll for damage? Against Obliterators, Gauss Cannon damage averages range from 7.9 damage (1,2), 15.8 damage (3,4), and 23.7 damage (5,6). On average you will be pumping out 15.8 wounds a turn, so it seems like you rolled on the low end of damage for that round of shooting, which can also be remedied with a Command Re-Roll.
I re-rolled before rolling for them (to finish off a unit)
I mean, ofc this was unlucky. But still... ugh... When I pay 2 CP and they kill for half their points only..... Then die like flies... :/
rvd1ofakind wrote: I re-rolled before rolling for them (to finish off a unit)
I mean, ofc this was unlucky. But still... ugh... When I pay 2 CP and they kill for half their points only..... Then die like flies... :/
Yeah definitely seems like bad luck. If you are having problems with survivability, I would suggest having a Chrono-Tek escort them. The buff to RP and the 5++ helps them greatly, and because the Choro-Tek will be Nephrekh, it will be able to keep up with the Destroyer's movement.
I had chronotek. Wasn't able to use it once. since I always had a 5+ save at the end of the day despite being pepere with lascannons and obliterator shots
The Necron titan unit actually make me go check and realise that Necrons were the only army without any potential access to a Titan unit from FW (this assumes that you convert an Eldar to a Dark Eldar variation - otherwise Dark Eldar are also without a titn - then again Dark Eldar have almost nothing from FW).
So this huge spider walker is fantastic for Necron and brings them in line with everyone else from 40K. I really like the design - huge walking spider strider with two massive front arms for close combat and two huge cannon arms. Visually it looks like a powerful assault titan unit - the kind which has a strong shot, but which is fast enough to get across the battlefield and happily into close combat.
Of course the forearms could be a missleading detail and it could otherwise be a powerful gun/artillery platform - but we kind of have that from the Pylon (even if the pylons are really rather dull to look at*)
* they are the kind of thing that looks great on something like Epic scale games where you've got a few dozen to form an artillery battery
Came out of a tournament with a total wipeout and 2 narrow deafeat where the opponent had like half a unit left and a character. Lost the initiative on both defeat and won initiative on my win.
I went 3DDA 2X5 destro 30 tesla immo. I guess its one of the best working list so far.
Spoiler:
Bataillon Nikihalah
-Cryptek + chrono
-Overlord + voidreaper + nikilah trait (the one who always strikes first)
-3X10 immo
-3DDA
So i left out a nikilah spearhead to as planned to save an HQ and integrated my 3DDA in the bataillon. Mistake. Spend the extra points on Anrakyr in my Nephrek detachment who could still MWBD my nikilah immortals. Mistake 2.
This is is close to what i want but here's the few shortfall.
1) Nikilah immortals. Sounds cool, hit on 2+ reroll 1s. On an objective with the stratagem and Anraky that makes 3A immortals with 2+ saves. In theory. In practice your stucked with non moving immortals and they get shot down pretty fast still. In no game i had the opportunity to do 3 MWBD as planned since i always lost at least 1 unit, or was not in range.
2) Nikihalh DDA: work well on turn 1 and 2. But you eventually got to move: you face infantry and want those rapid fire shots, you get charged and need to get out of close combat etc. In my experiences Sautekh plays better with DDA (5 games vs 1). So perhaps the Sautekh bataillon for the immortals and DDA is still the best option.
3) Destroyers. I would have been better with a Cryptek and VoD than Anrakyr and sending 2 in deep strikes. 2 Games the opponent didn,t move close enough, i had to wait to turn 2 for a proper deepstrike, a VOD cryptek would have done the job, and grant an extra shooting turn (or at least wipe out something that doesn't shoot you on turn 2). Points saved from Anrakyr and remove 1 scarab can give you 2X6 destroyers instead of five, in all games an extra destroyer would have made a big difference (many times where 1 or 2 soldiers were left standing). In both game i lost my an hair, an extra turn of destroyer shot would have turned the tide.
So this is my 2 conclusion. Sautekh is better than Nikilah even for DDA.
Better to have 1 unit of destroyers teleport with VoD and a cryptek.
Yeah don't hesitate to give a destroyer unit as bait to save your immortals, if you bring down the bing guns with DDA and destroyers first, you'll need those tesla immortals to take out whats left. In my 2 deafeats my destroyers where the last survivors. Not as efficient.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Played some 1.5k games. And I gotta say, WOW necrons are squishy (As expected with my durability chart). I spent my entire game in cover, staying out of cultist RF range and traded blows and almost got tabled (he wasn't in cover). Like, I have no idea how mephrit is ever anything that would cross my mind with a glass cannon army. Especially because I'd rather stay in ruins and shoot instead of chase after that elusive 12'' range.
Nephrek netted me like 4 objectives and replaced HQ auras.
Also destroyers are just meh so far. I hope they get better. 5 did 7 wounds to obliterators :/
I won in the end because it was ITC and necrons love that.(2 out of 4 VP only for every secondary)
Are Destroyers one of the most over hyped units of ALL time?
Most overhyped unit of all time? Just because he had one gakky roll and got wiped because he misplaced them? Basically every competitive win I have seen Necrons get has been off the back of destroyers, so I wouldn't say they are overhyped.
EnTyme wrote: What's the general consensus on Wraith weapons? Are transdimensional beamers worth the points, or should I use particle casters?
I think they are a luxury that can sometimes be afforded.
S6 is nice with T3 targets to plunk a few extra wounds here and there, even if in cc since they're pistols.
Beamers are nice against elite infantry with good save, especially if you run them with sautekh to better shoot when they dart ahead. They can even fly out of cc, shoot, and charge back in.
I'm toying with the idea of bringing a single whip in as well, if you see yourself losing a model on cc, put wounds on it and of it goes it still gets to fight, could make a difference now that they are more potent
Personally, I don't think the wraith upgrades are worth it. Maybe if we get some point decreases elsewhere, but as it sits, the wraiths I run will be stock
Most overhyped unit of all time? Just because he had one gakky roll and got wiped because he misplaced them? Basically every competitive win I have seen Necrons get has been off the back of destroyers, so I wouldn't say they are overhyped.
OK, please tell me how do I not misplace them. I placed them 23'' away from what I wanted to shoot (Everything I wanted to shoot was next to each other) and in cover. You can't really hide from 48'' guns and you can't really hide 5 destroyers behind LoS.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Use casters, or even better, naked.
Its 4 points for a single S6 shot on a unit with a bunch of S6 attacks that have pen. Not worth it.
Okay. That kind of confirms what I was thinking. They're probably the next kit I'll be putting together, and I'm just trying to get so ideas on how to build them. I already have six with whip coils from 7th, but I was wondering if either gun was worth it. I'll build them with the caster, but only use the if I have a couple extra points to spare, which was mostly what I planned on anyway. Also, just to chime in on the Destroyer debate, I seem to have the absolute worst luck on any d3 roll I've ever made, so my view may be tainted, but I don't see them as an auto-include. I think we have other options that are just as viable.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Use casters, or even better, naked.
Its 4 points for a single S6 shot on a unit with a bunch of S6 attacks that have pen. Not worth it.
Okay. That kind of confirms what I was thinking. They're probably the next kit I'll be putting together, and I'm just trying to get so ideas on how to build them. I already have six with whip coils from 7th, but I was wondering if either gun was worth it. I'll build them with the caster, but only use the if I have a couple extra points to spare, which was mostly what I planned on anyway. Also, just to chime in on the Destroyer debate, I seem to have the absolute worst luck on any d3 roll I've ever made, so my view may be tainted, but I don't see them as an auto-include. I think we have other options that are just as viable.
Out of curiosity what other options do you think are as viable as destroyers?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Use casters, or even better, naked.
Its 4 points for a single S6 shot on a unit with a bunch of S6 attacks that have pen. Not worth it.
Okay. That kind of confirms what I was thinking. They're probably the next kit I'll be putting together, and I'm just trying to get so ideas on how to build them. I already have six with whip coils from 7th, but I was wondering if either gun was worth it. I'll build them with the caster, but only use the if I have a couple extra points to spare, which was mostly what I planned on anyway. Also, just to chime in on the Destroyer debate, I seem to have the absolute worst luck on any d3 roll I've ever made, so my view may be tainted, but I don't see them as an auto-include. I think we have other options that are just as viable.
Out of curiosity what other options do you think are as viable as destroyers?
Destroyers are a strong unit that will get targeted, not bringing them because they get shot down is just bonkers. Should you take weaker units then? Then your second strongest unit gets it instead.
Having units that enemies throw everything at is a good thing, not a bad thing
rvd1ofakind wrote: Played some 1.5k games. And I gotta say, WOW necrons are squishy (As expected with my durability chart). I spent my entire game in cover, staying out of cultist RF range and traded blows and almost got tabled (he wasn't in cover). Like, I have no idea how mephrit is ever anything that would cross my mind with a glass cannon army. Especially because I'd rather stay in ruins and shoot instead of chase after that elusive 12'' range.
Nephrek netted me like 4 objectives and replaced HQ auras.
Also destroyers are just meh so far. I hope they get better. 5 did 7 wounds to obliterators :/
I won in the end because it was ITC and necrons love that.(2 out of 4 VP only for every secondary)
How have Doomsday Arks performed for you so far, if you have used them?
I don't have em. Thinking about them because heldrakes are quite problematic. They charge turn 1 always. And Necrons pretty much only have scarabs for defense.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Use casters, or even better, naked.
Its 4 points for a single S6 shot on a unit with a bunch of S6 attacks that have pen. Not worth it.
Okay. That kind of confirms what I was thinking. They're probably the next kit I'll be putting together, and I'm just trying to get so ideas on how to build them. I already have six with whip coils from 7th, but I was wondering if either gun was worth it. I'll build them with the caster, but only use the if I have a couple extra points to spare, which was mostly what I planned on anyway. Also, just to chime in on the Destroyer debate, I seem to have the absolute worst luck on any d3 roll I've ever made, so my view may be tainted, but I don't see them as an auto-include. I think we have other options that are just as viable.
Out of curiosity what other options do you think are as viable as destroyers?
Destroyers are a strong unit that will get targeted, not bringing them because they get shot down is just bonkers. Should you take weaker units then? Then your second strongest unit gets it instead.
Having units that enemies throw everything at is a good thing, not a bad thing
I would also almost always DS them on the flank if you don't want them to get shot up too much, as that greatly decreases the amount of fire your opponent can direct towards them. It forces your opponent to either let them live or reposition the opposite flank to try to deal with them, which can give you a great advantage.
Destroyers are our best unit in the book in terms of damage output, mobility and strategem efficiency combined. What else do they need to make them good in your opinion? Should they cost less? Be smaller models? Be tougher? You can't have it all. Use the tool for what it's for.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Use casters, or even better, naked.
Its 4 points for a single S6 shot on a unit with a bunch of S6 attacks that have pen. Not worth it.
Okay. That kind of confirms what I was thinking. They're probably the next kit I'll be putting together, and I'm just trying to get so ideas on how to build them. I already have six with whip coils from 7th, but I was wondering if either gun was worth it. I'll build them with the caster, but only use the if I have a couple extra points to spare, which was mostly what I planned on anyway. Also, just to chime in on the Destroyer debate, I seem to have the absolute worst luck on any d3 roll I've ever made, so my view may be tainted, but I don't see them as an auto-include. I think we have other options that are just as viable.
Out of curiosity what other options do you think are as viable as destroyers?
Tomb Blades have performed well for me. I also feel Wraiths are a viable option. I never said Destroyers are bad, but I hate the models and the fluff behind them, so if I can find an excuse not to take them, I will. They're our "best" unit from a min/max standpoint, but I feel they aren't so much better that they are irreplaceable. Also keep in mind that I don't play tournaments, so I'm not concerned with having to fight the most broken list the internet can rules lawyer up. I've done extremely well in my local league since the codex came out using mostly Immortals and Warriors with HQ support and Tomb Blades to do the heavy lifting. The only list that's beaten me is a Monster Nid list, and that was mostly because I went second.
Okay, well, fluff and aesthetic being personal preference thing, not taking them in a list is like wearing dress shoes in a race: you might think it looks better but it's probably going to hinder your performance.
If you're not too concerned with winning, no prob, but people who come looking for hints and suggestions on how to make the most out of their army lists deserve to hear the truth: From a competitive tactics standpoint, Destroyers are the best unit, point for point, in the codex, and not taking them is almost like giving yourself a handicap.
Just because some people have had anecdotal experiences where they didn't work out the way they were hoping does not mean they're any less effective (plus, it really helps to know how to play them to get them most bang for your buck. That's the reason so many people take them in Nephrekh detachments, to keep them safe until it's time to best employ them).
Reread my post. I'm saying there are other options. Not that those options are better, just that they exist, and your army can absolutely be competitive without taking a min-max unit. A tactica thread should include tips for multiple types of meta, and tournament play is far from the only meta.
That's fair. Sometimes one doesn't have access to destroyers, after all. Either due to points limit or not having the physical model, so coming up with an alternative is helpful. I actually really like the fluff, as its the closest thing we have now to traditional necrons. The models aren't bad, imo. If they are to be updated, they need to look more menacing and mechanical, as if the destroyer stripped away all traces of necrontyr and became a pure weapons platform. Something like a gun platform with a head.
I mean, if you think about it, all of the necron vehicle models should have looked like that. Instead of having a pilot the necron should have been fused to the vehicle in such a way that it looks barely recognizable. That would have conveyed more a "machine army" feel than "metal egyptian dudes in space" feel. If my conversion skills weren't terrible I would have done it myself, lol.
Then again, that's probably just me. I'm a sucker for HR Geiger style horror and System Shock. I understand if that's not the path they wanted to take with nucrons. I don't like it, but I understand it. If they ever get around to designing the Empire of the Severed, they should take heavy influence from those two works, with a healthy dose of I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream. And I would jump on board, because that's my sort of necron.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I mean, if you think about it, all of the necron vehicle models should have looked like that.
Instead of having a pilot the necron should have been fused to the vehicle in such a way that it looks barely recognizable.
That would have conveyed more a "machine army" feel than "metal egyptian dudes in space" feel.
Then again, that's just me. I'm a sucker for HR Geiger style horror.
Well definitely the Destroyers at least. Something fused, still recognizable as having been a Necron once, and a big gun.. hm..
skoffs wrote: Okay, well, fluff and aesthetic being personal preference thing, not taking them in a list is like wearing dress shoes in a race: you might think it looks better but it's probably going to hinder your performance.
If you're not too concerned with winning, no prob, but people who come looking for hints and suggestions on how to make the most out of their army lists deserve to hear the truth: From a competitive tactics standpoint, Destroyers are the best unit, point for point, in the codex, and not taking them is almost like giving yourself a handicap.
Just because some people have had anecdotal experiences where they didn't work out the way they were hoping does not mean they're any less effective (plus, it really helps to know how to play them to get them most bang for your buck. That's the reason so many people take them in Nephrekh detachments, to keep them safe until it's time to best employ them).
I'll put that into context. It depends the meta you are facing.
1-Vs LOTS of infantry, armor 4+, invu4++ and such, Tesla immortals are our best units. MWBD mandatory. You will not be able to MWBD 2 or more units that many turns in your life. There are other combos to improve, Sautekh metodogical destruction, Nikialah reroll 1s to hit or Mephrit -1AP and 6s give one more attack stratagem. All are more or less equivalent, having tested both, there a +/- 2 wounds output between each which is not very significant.
1.5- I'll argue that for point equivalent you can build a 5 tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them. Best use them with gauss and nebuloscope and chase them scouts and such.
2- Destroyers are best vs multi-wound stuff, idealy 2-3 wound heavy infantry with thoughness 6 or less. They can also blow up thanks and huge things. Against Magnus-equivalent you can throw your whole unit and reroll everything, it's very likely you will not bring him down with only 1 unit. If you use them for deepstrike, keep in mind there are a couple of turns where you may not fire.
3- DDA are marvels to bring down big tanks/ planes / huge stuff. Garanteed alpha if you win initiative (keep those #drops low durin deployement). Especially if they don't have invulnerable saves. They are also HUGE fire magnet, which you don't really care about once your big targets have been shot down. They are weak to sniper (?), tesla shot and other high attack output gak because of their low 4+ save.
4- Wraiths, very fast to move downfield and engage. Almost unkillable. But i've had a hard time finishing anything with them. For destruction purposes, any of the point 1 to 3 above will be far better. Best used as blocker, and to carry a Nightbrigner.
5-Scarabs. Point for point one of the toughest unit we have, cause they are cheap, if left uncheck they can deal surprising amount of attacks and damage and so will attrack enemy fire for a whole turn. 100 points sacrifice to save the rest of your army. Yeah a unit of 9 scarabs is canoptek, stratagem for wraith also work for scarabs, including RP.
These are our 5 best bets. Having tried almost anything
1- warrior are not very efficient. They can work in a mephrit silver tide with a ghost ark and all possible buffs.
2- All our elite are so so at best. Deciver can be as much a winning weapon as a loosing one if you feel forced to displace 3 units without really knowing what to do with them. Flayed ones and lychguard need external help to get in charge range. Pretorian just don,t synergize with anything anymore. Deathmarks, some like them, but its a gimmick also. If its part of your plan, go ahead. Triarch stalker, useless since you can have a nihilikh detachment.
3- Other heavys are so-so. Heavy destroyers will do better quality shots than DDA but lack the endurance of the 20 rapid fire shot. Monolith are expensive. Oblekisks, meh.
4-Tesseract vault? Eh if you want to spend 800$ on a Tesseract vault spam, be my guest.
I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?
EnTyme wrote: I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?
Stalker doesn't do that. It just lets you reroll 1s
The first +1 to tesla is the critical one, the next less so
EnTyme wrote: I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?
What horde worths such concentration? 20 strong Berzerkers?
EnTyme wrote: I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?
What horde worths such concentration? 20 strong Berzerkers?
Ork Boyz, Hormagaunts, IG, just to name a few. You've never gone up against an horde army with a massive model count?
EnTyme wrote: I was actually playing around with some ideas on battlescribe the other day, and came up with the idea of throwing a Stalker in with Sautekh Tesla Immortals against a horde army. With MWBD and the stratagem, you're looking at tesla procing on a 3+. Thoughts on the viability of this?
What horde worths such concentration? 20 strong Berzerkers?
Ork Boyz, Hormagaunts, IG, just to name a few. You've never gone up against an horde army with a massive model count?
I usually encounter light defence MSU rush list like 6 units of 10 Tzaangors riding in 6 Rhinos....... Against such list, no buff 10men Immortal Tesla is enough cripple one unit (killing 8 of them) in one round. What I actually need is having MWBD ability on multiple Immortals, and some buff to my Destroyers or Stalkers or DDA to kill those Rhinos so the shots from immortal is not wasted.
The "heavist horde" I've run into was 30 strong Ork Boyz. I was not playing Necrons but SW in that game. Anyway, my calculation show that against T3/4 units with 5+/5++ (Guards, Genestealers, Tzaangors, etc), a +1 to hit buff for 10 men Tesla Immortals would kill 13 of them. Enough to cripple them if they are only 20 strong. For 30 strong hordes with 5++..... Yea ok, if you so desire to cripple them with one squad, +3 to hit is the way then.... that will kill 19 of them.
Da W wrote: tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.
How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command. Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.
Da W wrote: tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.
How is this still getting confused? Please, new players, take note: You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command. Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not. The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.
All the more reason to just give neprekh tomb blades particle beamers then. I really don;t like the idea of advancing with tesla carbines. Its an expensive weapon for its stats, and most of the points go to its special ability, which is already difficult to proc. By advancing you are wasting its points. You pretty much need an overlord if you want to make the most of them, especially with nephrekh.
Still struggling to get the stupid DDA to do what its meant to do.
The fearless tesla brick basically ate a change from his army. Lost 1 squad to shooting and then a wych charge.
The second squad tied up teleported out of melee and then annihilated the wyches
Destroyers came in out of deep strike, blew up a ravager, a venom, and left 2 wounds on raider which i then surrounded and ate with scarabs.
Feeling pretty good about the fearless tesla brick.
Da W wrote: tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.
How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command. Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.
I feel like Tesla is just wasted on Tomb Blades, partially for this reason and partially because Tesla really shines at >12", and Tomb Blades are more than fast enough to be in rapid fire range with Gauss Blasters. I haven't run them with Beamers, so I don't know the math on that, but Tesla is just better served on Immortals who can receive MWBD.
Da W wrote: tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.
How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command. Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.
I feel like Tesla is just wasted on Tomb Blades, partially for this reason and partially because Tesla really shines at >12", and Tomb Blades are more than fast enough to be in rapid fire range with Gauss Blasters. I haven't run them with Beamers, so I don't know the math on that, but Tesla is just better served on Immortals who can receive MWBD.
Sure, the question is more wether or not you want to be in RF, and thus CC threat range.
The Tesla carbine is not a bad weapon on Immortals, even without MWBD. It's also not a bad weapon on TB. It easily outperforms Particle, and Gauss blasters, except for MEQ in RF range. Take particle only to save points. (Not a bad reason in itself)
If you're screening Tomb Blades (Scarabs are perfect for this), charges aren't much of a concern. You can even pile in the Tomb Blades for a token potshot during your opponent's combat phase, then retreat the Tomb Blades and Scarabs during your turn for the next volley.
Still struggling to get the stupid DDA to do what its meant to do.
The fearless tesla brick basically ate a change from his army. Lost 1 squad to shooting and then a wych charge.
The second squad tied up teleported out of melee and then annihilated the wyches
Destroyers came in out of deep strike, blew up a ravager, a venom, and left 2 wounds on raider which i then surrounded and ate with scarabs.
Feeling pretty good about the fearless tesla brick.
The DDA does 5-6 dmg with it's DDCanon on average. Was it far off? People see all those D6s in the stat line and expect to win the lottery with every round of shooting
Or if you want to be mobile and advance as much as possible. Its pointless advancing with double tesla carbines, as you'd be paying double the points for a single extra, weaker, shot.
With beamers you can move 15-20", shoot with all of your shots, and not have to worry about proccing anything special.
EnTyme wrote: If you're screening Tomb Blades (Scarabs are perfect for this), charges aren't much of a concern. You can even pile in the Tomb Blades for a token potshot during your opponent's combat phase, then retreat the Tomb Blades and Scarabs during your turn for the next volley.
Definitely a viable strategy. I always try to use TB as flanking support to something else that marches up, man or machine. They provide great damage output, but are somewhat fragile, shouldn't hold a flank on their own
I find them to be durable enough at T5 3+ 5++ 2W with -1 to hit and RP, but in my mind, they're the embodiment of "the best defense is a good offense". They can't charge you if they're dead, and Tomb Blades are pretty good at making things dead.
Da W wrote: tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.
How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command. Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.
I feel like Tesla is just wasted on Tomb Blades, partially for this reason and partially because Tesla really shines at >12", and Tomb Blades are more than fast enough to be in rapid fire range with Gauss Blasters. I haven't run them with Beamers, so I don't know the math on that, but Tesla is just better served on Immortals who can receive MWBD.
I think that Tesla on tomb blades really shines with the Mephrit dynasty code. At > 12 inches, it outperforms gauss against all targets, and at <12 inches, it outperforms AP -3 gauss against most targets. Particle beamers, even with Mephrit do half or less than half the damage of tesla
I really like Particle Beamer Tomb Blades. For 270ptsish you get 9 Tbs 5 w. ignoring cover, 3+ save and 4 w/ 5++. PB don't do as much damage as Gauss or tesla but they are a good and cheap distraction that will survive long enough and as the game goes on and the game gets smaller these guyy will start to lay down the hurt.
Gauss/tesla = lay down hurt will get killed asap.
Particle beamer = dont hurt as much, will be forgotten about. opponent wont be able to kill them as the game goes on.
I dont know if any of you guys Play TableTop Simulator but i have been using it to test some ideas out and it has helped me run a few lists before a my real game.
Odrankt wrote: I dont know if any of you guys Play TableTop Simulator but i have been using it to test some ideas out and it has helped me run a few lists before a my real game.
Odrankt wrote: I dont know if any of you guys Play TableTop Simulator but i have been using it to test some ideas out and it has helped me run a few lists before a my real game.
What TTS add-ons do you use?
I have all the armies I play, all the cards, 1000 pieces of terrain, gakk load of dice, open war cards and a deployment tool.
Might not be the answer you are looking for but not sure what mods you can apply to TTS.
Still struggling to get the stupid DDA to do what its meant to do.
The fearless tesla brick basically ate a change from his army. Lost 1 squad to shooting and then a wych charge.
The second squad tied up teleported out of melee and then annihilated the wyches
Destroyers came in out of deep strike, blew up a ravager, a venom, and left 2 wounds on raider which i then surrounded and ate with scarabs.
Feeling pretty good about the fearless tesla brick.
The DDA does 5-6 dmg with it's DDCanon on average. Was it far off? People see all those D6s in the stat line and expect to win the lottery with every round of shooting
Maybe? I think mine has under-performed in the 4 or so games i've run it. I might be averaging 3-4.
Maybe? I think mine has under-performed in the 4 or so games i've run it. I might be averaging 3-4.
I get big swings with mine. I've had single DDAs one-shot 12-14 wound vehicles, I've also had all three DDAs completely whiff multiple turns in a row. I think I'd say on average it's settles out to about 6 damage.
Da W wrote: tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.
How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command. Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.
Chill the feth out bro. I made a mistake cause i talked about tesla. In my head tesla = MWBD. May be you started the thread, is no reason to yell at me! It's just a fething game. Anyway i said you could not count on MWBD right? So tesla out for tomb blades.
D6 shots and D6 damage just creates a very swingy weapon.
http://mathhammer.thefieldsofblood.com/ says the average damage is 5.44 but with a deviation of 4.73.
So the expected result is somewhere between 0.7 and 10.2 damage.
Maybe? I think mine has under-performed in the 4 or so games i've run it. I might be averaging 3-4.
I get big swings with mine. I've had single DDAs one-shot 12-14 wound vehicles, I've also had all three DDAs completely whiff multiple turns in a row. I think I'd say on average it's settles out to about 6 damage.
You need 2 or 3 DDA. Reduces variance a lot and is more previsible. Not even 600pts.
Da W wrote: tomb blade squad that will have the same damage output, same hit point, same save and -1to hit and ignore cover. BUT they are not troops, and will move too far to MWBD them.
How is this still getting confused?
Please, new players, take note:
You cannot give Tomb Blades My Will Be Done or Wave of Command. Those buffs are only for <INFANTRY>, which TBs are not.
The only way to give them +1 to hit is via Sautekh's Methodical Destruction strat.
Chill the feth out bro. May be you started the thread, is no reason to yell at me! It's just a fething game. Anyway i said you could not count on MWBD right? So tesla out for tomb blades.
I'm not "yelling at" anyone.
I was pointing out to new players who might be browsing the thread and see that and think they can do something that's not allowed.
I just enlarged the text, underlining the key parts, so as to make it more noticeable as it's an important thing to take note of for anyone starting Necrons (a mistake that's been made several times throughout this thread, plus in a couple batt reps I've seen, so it's not something isolated to just you).
Hey Guys,
long time reader. I have a quaestion regarding a counter to Primaris Ultramarines.
Played a 2k Game the other day and had a big problem with Guilliman because i couldnt target him. Furthermore my Wraiths fell like flies to his Psycer with the "Anti- 3++" Spell (Nullfield?). Also his Relic Contemptor Dreadnought (buffed from Guilliman) just deleted a Squad of my army every round...
Any tipps on how to deal with Guilliman? And Ultramarines in general? I feel like my DDA and Destroyer did a good job, maybe switch out the Wraiths vs Gauss-Tombblades?
Data04_exe wrote: Hey Guys,
long time reader. I have a quaestion regarding a counter to Primaris Ultramarines.
Played a 2k Game the other day and had a big problem with Guilliman because i couldnt target him. Furthermore my Wraiths fell like flies to his Psycer with the "Anti- 3++" Spell (Nullfield?). Also his Relic Contemptor Dreadnought (buffed from Guilliman) just deleted a Squad of my army every round...
Any tipps on how to deal with Guilliman? And Ultramarines in general? I feel like my DDA and Destroyer did a good job, maybe switch out the Wraiths vs Gauss-Tombblades?
Thanks!
Kill everything around Guilliman, the Primarch himself is un impressive for his 400pts. It us his buff ability make him worth that many points.
Tbh, killing marines should not be a big problem for Necrons. Your strong shooty units like Destroyers are good. Anything that can put out Mortal Wounds are good.
I think that Dread who delete a squad per turn is the Relic Leviathan? with 2 sets of "4 barrel autocannon" right? If that is the one, it is a serious threat to your 2W units like Tombblade, and is tough nut with 2+/4++. Throw mortal wounds at it or try overwhelm its inv saves with enough DDA or Destroyer shots. If that dread is a contemptor level dread, things are easier in shooting it to death.
So my current 1.5k necron ITC list is:
Nephrek batallion
OL (hypersword, veil)
cryptek(WL psyker, cloak)
10 tesla
9 tesla
18 warriors
Deceiver
3 Scarabs
5 wraiths
5 destroyers
But I really have a problem with 2 heldrakes my opponent is running. They can easily charge immortals turn 1 because you don't really have much bubble wrap as necrons in general as your troops aren't trow-away like Cultists, Infantry, gants, etc. Also they're really annoying as destroyers, deceiver are FLY. Do I just lack enough anti-tank? I'm thinking of keeping Deceiver with the immortals I deceive in and wraiths next to the other squad to countercharge.
Data04_exe wrote: Hey Guys,
long time reader. I have a quaestion regarding a counter to Primaris Ultramarines.
Played a 2k Game the other day and had a big problem with Guilliman because i couldnt target him. Furthermore my Wraiths fell like flies to his Psycer with the "Anti- 3++" Spell (Nullfield?). Also his Relic Contemptor Dreadnought (buffed from Guilliman) just deleted a Squad of my army every round...
Any tipps on how to deal with Guilliman? And Ultramarines in general? I feel like my DDA and Destroyer did a good job, maybe switch out the Wraiths vs Gauss-Tombblades?
Thanks!
Kill everything around Guilliman, the Primarch himself is un impressive for his 400pts. It us his buff ability make him worth that many points.
Tbh, killing marines should not be a big problem for Necrons. Your strong shooty units like Destroyers are good. Anything that can put out Mortal Wounds are good.
I think that Dread who delete a squad per turn is the Relic Leviathan? with 2 sets of "4 barrel autocannon" right? If that is the one, it is a serious threat to your 2W units like Tombblade, and is tough nut with 2+/4++. Throw mortal wounds at it or try overwhelm its inv saves with enough DDA or Destroyer shots. If that dread is a contemptor level dread, things are easier in shooting it to death.
Yeah thats exactly the Dread i am talking about. Really hard to take down. Thanks for the advice! I will work on a list and post my feedback.
I play marines every game in one shape or another and mephrit is the go to dynasty.. warriors remove big blobs of marines a turn and hang around I ran 2x 20 with a ghost ark and played really aggressiveand tabled a girly man list that has won some major tourneys. The warrior blob doesn't need a cryptek so frees up a lord to go with something else. The dread will drop to mw or even combat. I use a levi when I play sw. And everyone just ties it up with something crap.
rvd1ofakind wrote: So my current 1.5k necron ITC list is:
Nephrek batallion
OL (hypersword, veil)
cryptek(WL psyker, cloak)
10 tesla
9 tesla
18 warriors
Deceiver
3 Scarabs
5 wraiths
5 destroyers
But I really have a problem with 2 heldrakes my opponent is running. They can easily charge immortals turn 1 because you don't really have much bubble wrap as necrons in general as your troops aren't trow-away like Cultists, Infantry, gants, etc. Also they're really annoying as destroyers, deceiver are FLY. Do I just lack enough anti-tank? I'm thinking of keeping Deceiver with the immortals I deceive in and wraiths next to the other squad to countercharge.
Do you have access to a sentry pylon? The gauss loadout is pretty damn effective for anti-air. I think a 1500 point game kinda excludes a big pylon from the options without crippling the rest of your list unfortunately.
Yeah thats exactly the Dread i am talking about. Really hard to take down. Thanks for the advice! I will work on a list and post my feedback.
A twin storm cannon leviathan dread is easily disabled. Charge it with wraiths and get it into CC. With twin storm cannons it only has 2 attacks at S8 AP0 D1. If he falls back from CC he cant shoot.
Honestly there are some tasty character builts, the mephrit CCB sniper, the Novohk murder machine or the unkillable Dlord. I can't find a list I want to slot them into is the trouble. I want DS'ing destroyers but I also want wraiths in my list and a few Novohk leaning choices. I'll probably sit on it all for a while and see what fits. What is cool though is that there are so many options that seem viable. I don't think necrons will be dominant at all but I still like what I am seeing quite a bit.
Could you please list off these character build very interesting to see them also any ideas for how to best use Anrakyr
CCB with mephrit dynasty, mephrit warlord trait, tesla cannon. You can shoot enemy CHARACTERS from up to 30" away. If you are within 15" you get AP-1 on tesla. With VOD you can deepstrike the CCB and one INFANTRY unit. You can exchange the staff of light for the voltaic staff for even better distance firepower.
The unkillable Dlord is equipped with the nanoscarab casket, an artifact replacing the phylactery. He heals D3 wounds at the start of every players turn. You can give him the warlord trait where his inflicted damage is reduced by 1. When the Dlord dies the first time he gets up on 4+ with D6 wounds remaining. And of course, he heals D3 wounds at the start of every players turn. Should he die a second time you can use the resurrection protocols stratagem for 1CP. On a 4+ he gets up again with 1 wound remaining. And he once again heals D3 wounds at the start of every players turn. If he dies a third time he is gone, no more reviving.
It's like the bosses in Mario, 3 hits to take down.
Yeah thats exactly the Dread i am talking about. Really hard to take down. Thanks for the advice! I will work on a list and post my feedback.
A twin storm cannon leviathan dread is easily disabled. Charge it with wraiths and get it into CC. With twin storm cannons it only has 2 attacks at S8 AP0 D1. If he falls back from CC he cant shoot.
Yea, until Guilliman who is 6” away from the Dread scewers the Wraiths on the Emperor’s sword.
Yeah thats exactly the Dread i am talking about. Really hard to take down. Thanks for the advice! I will work on a list and post my feedback.
A twin storm cannon leviathan dread is easily disabled. Charge it with wraiths and get it into CC. With twin storm cannons it only has 2 attacks at S8 AP0 D1. If he falls back from CC he cant shoot.
Sn33R wrote: What is everyone thinking on a ccb? I'm thinking if using one with the lightning field.
Well there is the character sniper option with Mephrit, which would en good against AM perhaps. So fairly gimmicky. Otherwise lighting field is the safe bet
Yeah thats exactly the Dread i am talking about. Really hard to take down. Thanks for the advice! I will work on a list and post my feedback.
A twin storm cannon leviathan dread is easily disabled. Charge it with wraiths and get it into CC. With twin storm cannons it only has 2 attacks at S8 AP0 D1. If he falls back from CC he cant shoot.
That SM faction gets -1 to hit when they fallback, and -1 for moving heavy weapons, which is -2 to hit.
Which puts it at a 4+ to hit, and if you are getting rerolls, you are still at 75% effective firepower. Still plenty of firepower to nuke units with. The only time I get worried about my DA Leviathan getting into combat is when it gets surrounded with no way to fall back..and this I usually can mitigate through placement of other units.
rvd1ofakind wrote: eh, I'm against Forge World after the pounding they took in CA.
Yeah we got shafted pretty bad in CA. Unfortunately for some reason all of our actual anti-air stuff is there. If you are against FW stuff its back to either destroyers or DDA or you can try and tie it up with flyers of our own. Not a ton of great choices for it specifically.
Yeah thats exactly the Dread i am talking about. Really hard to take down. Thanks for the advice! I will work on a list and post my feedback.
A twin storm cannon leviathan dread is easily disabled. Charge it with wraiths and get it into CC. With twin storm cannons it only has 2 attacks at S8 AP0 D1. If he falls back from CC he cant shoot.
His opponent is Ultramarine whose dread can fall back and shoot, tough at the price of hitting on 4+ and only reolling 1s.
The entire nephrekh detachment moves as one blob, except for the wraiths, i guess. Tek helps reanimate and gives them 5++, Dlord re-rolls wound rolls of 1. Movement is limited by the tek, he is advancing all the time, i guess.
That SM faction gets -1 to hit when they fallback, and -1 for moving heavy weapons, which is -2 to hit.
I am not only up against Girlyman, but a Psyker with Nullfield. My Wraiths can not charge because they would loose their 3++. That was the main problem i think. I will try to use the Deciever + Tesserakt Vault for my next game, i think MW are the way to go.
You could try taking a gloom prism or immortal pride to counter his psychic nonsense.
Of course, if your deny rolls are as bad as mine it might not be that helpful
So, just a side note, me and my friends are putting together a small tournament just for us, for gaks and giggles. It's 1,000 points, 4x4 board, not sure of the gametype yet. Me and one of said friends did a practice game yesterday. I warned everyone my list would be good, especially because one of my T'au friends plays a ton of Stealth Suits.
So I brought an Outrider, Nephrekh. (4 CP)
Destroyer Lord
- Warscythe
- Phylactery
- Nanoscarab Casket (Relic)
- Skin of Living Gold (Warlord)
10x Tesla Immortals
10x Gauss Immortals
3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer
Played against my other T'au budy who brought the forgeworld Commander, a Barracuda, Crisis Suits, pathfinders and firewarriors. As far as points, it was a close game. But I tabled him while only having 3 models dead. I think I'm set for this tournament.
The entire nephrekh detachment moves as one blob, except for the wraiths, i guess. Tek helps reanimate and gives them 5++, Dlord re-rolls wound rolls of 1. Movement is limited by the tek, he is advancing all the time, i guess.
Even still, the Nihilakh Cryptek is pretty much useless without the Cloak (to repair the Arks).
And if all the D.Lord is there for is the reroll 1s buff, they're probably better off taking just a regular Lord to save points (it can advance every turn to with the Chrono-tek to keep in buff range of stuff, keeping the Veil for emergency escape purposes).
Jackers wrote: Another boring spam list. It is a shame that that seems to be the only way to be competitive at a tournament.
I like DDAs and Destroyers as much as the next guy, but when they make up 3/4s of your models in a list, it gets a bit dull.
Oh, I definitely agree, I was just playing with the one that had come second there to see if I could optimize it.
I generally tend to never have more than two of anything (except maybe Immortal units, because of requirements). Two gives you a bit of variety for TAC lists, plus redundancy. Ideally I'd love to do double DDA, double Destroyer units, double Scarabs, triple Immortals, and maybe a Tomb Blade unit... but lately I also want to use a Vault, so there's definitely not enough points for that unless I cut something vital.
Doubling up is my preferred method as well, but I usually run into the same issue as you. There are too many cool things I want to take, and not enough points to take them all.
I totally understand that a tournament is all about sheer efficiency, so people will math out the most effective units and spam them. It would just be nice if that didn't happen, lol.
So many awesome models rarely see the light of day cos they are 10% worse than another option.
I'll honestly be shocked if we don't at least see the Destroyer stratagem go up in price in the near future. More than likely, either Destroyer will go up in price as well, or something else will get cheaper to make it more attractive. The former is more likely knowing GW's balance method (hacksaw rather than scalpel).
Well, they can't really impact the destroyers or DDA too hard, because if they do, we are right back where we were with the index with practically no good Anti-Tank/Monster capability. I really don't think either warrant a nerf as they are not dominating the tournament scene (as in seeing multiple Necron spam lists in top tens of major tournaments). The only real way to turn down the spam is to make other options more attractive.
I am not only up against Girlyman, but a Psyker with Nullfield. My Wraiths can not charge because they would loose their 3++. That was the main problem i think. I will try to use the Deciever + Tesserakt Vault for my next game, i think MW are the way to go.
Use the mephrit CCB with tesla and mephrit WLT to snipe the psyker/girlyman from 30" away.
I am not only up against Girlyman, but a Psyker with Nullfield. My Wraiths can not charge because they would loose their 3++. That was the main problem i think. I will try to use the Deciever + Tesserakt Vault for my next game, i think MW are the way to go.
Use the mephrit CCB with tesla and mephrit WLT to snipe the psyker/girlyman from 30" away.
Not a bad idea for sure, probably best used vs the Librarian since they don't have an invuln save. However, death hex/null zone also aren't the easiest powers to successfully manifest.
As far as destroyers go. Honestly, just increasing the strategem to 2CP is probably enough of a change, if anything. We're not dominating the meta, so our changes, if anything, should be minor.
Not a bad idea for sure, probably best used vs the Librarian since they don't have an invuln save. However, death hex/null zone also aren't the easiest powers to successfully manifest.
Works even better with the voltaic staff from 18" away.
I have a friendly 2k game against Tau coming up, and I want to give Silver tide a go, but can't decide which route to go.
It's going to be 2x 20 warriors and 10 immortals, 1 Ghost Ark, probably Szeras warlord, Destroyers and Wraiths for distraction, and perhaps another cryptek for 5+ invul. (He tends to play the sept that gives him extra -1 AP, so a bunch of -2 shots coming in.
If I use Nephreck the wraiths can dart ahead and cause a big distraction up there. Warriors could perhaps run 11" while the wraiths take the heat first turn, perhaps destroyers can move 10" to get in range of something or start off the board. (though means more fire on warriors).
If I use Mephrit I'd have to use the Deceiver to get them in position to reach 12" of the enemy, however I'm not sure if I really want to be in a shoot out with the Tau.
If I use Sautekh, I could advance the warriors 8.5" and shoot at -1, probably reaching something 32" away for most of the dudes. However 20 shots at 4+ means 10 hits means 7 wounds, at 4+ if he's in cover, means 3-4 dead fire warriors, not too impressive (and even fewer drones). Once I'm up in the middle there is no big benefit from it anymore, except for the +1 stratagem, which is nice, but I don't really have much tesla in the army now. I'd likely still have to go with the auto pass moral strat. Skipping the Deceiver means I can afford a DDA though.
Nihilakh or NovokhI don't see any real benefit to my warrior blobs from.
For me, you have more to win than lose vs tau at close range. Our warriors will win in CC vs tau fire warriors and drones and most of the suits as well. With that in mind, either of your strategies with Nephrekh, Mephrit, or Sautekh have value.
For me, I run a Deceiver and a pair of DDA. You get to know who is going first before activating the Deceiver; you may end up choosing to reposition your DDA for better first turn shooting rather than putting something in his face. Granted... THIS IS NOT A VS TAU STRATEGY. Get in his face, multi-charge and reap his fishy face.
torblind wrote: I have a friendly 2k game against Tau coming up, and I want to give Silver tide a go, but can't decide which route to go.
It's going to be 2x 20 warriors and 10 immortals, 1 Ghost Ark, probably Szeras warlord, Destroyers and Wraiths for distraction, and perhaps another cryptek for 5+ invul. (He tends to play the sept that gives him extra -1 AP, so a bunch of -2 shots coming in.
If I use Nephreck the wraiths can dart ahead and cause a big distraction up there. Warriors could perhaps run 11" while the wraiths take the heat first turn, perhaps destroyers can move 10" to get in range of something or start off the board. (though means more fire on warriors).
If I use Mephrit I'd have to use the Deceiver to get them in position to reach 12" of the enemy, however I'm not sure if I really want to be in a shoot out with the Tau.
If I use Sautekh, I could advance the warriors 8.5" and shoot at -1, probably reaching something 32" away for most of the dudes. However 20 shots at 4+ means 10 hits means 7 wounds, at 4+ if he's in cover, means 3-4 dead fire warriors, not too impressive (and even fewer drones). Once I'm up in the middle there is no big benefit from it anymore, except for the +1 stratagem, which is nice, but I don't really have much tesla in the army now. I'd likely still have to go with the auto pass moral strat. Skipping the Deceiver means I can afford a DDA though.
Nihilakh or NovokhI don't see any real benefit to my warrior blobs from.
Already posted, i recommend this list:
Spoiler:
Sautekh +5 CP
HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Nephrekh +1 CP HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Total: 1999
CP: 9
I found that these days most effective list is 3 riptides and 20-30 drones to take hits from them. Deploy DDA out of riptides range - they are your carryover through the game. Riptides often stand still turn or two to declare montka - reroll to hit, so be more than 36" from them with DDA. Concentrate on drones with light shooting, after that taking down riptides with DDA should not be a problem. Concentrate on a single squad to cause moral loses. They should have hard time removing warrior blobs, especially in the late game. Think twice before charging them - all units within 6" of the unit you charge will fire overwatch - most of time thats whole army. Often thats overwatch on 5+ with reroll. Getting in a close range for rapid fire usually is a good idea though.
Had a 1K get vs Blood Angles.we were playing Sealed Orders and and using Front-line Deployment. I won the game 19-5. My Doomsday Ark kept getting dropped to 1 wound but theny opponent either ddint hit or miss or I rolled well on my QS.
If he had dropped that card he would have drawn a new hand and gotten a lot more objectives. By the time he had drawn 5 new cards he only had 2 Marine units left and 5 Scouts.
I also only lost a Cryptek.
Wish I had recorded the game for YouTube but background noise was too much.
HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Nephrekh +1 CP HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Total: 1999
CP: 9
Looks decent, but you sure you don't want to have the Warriors in Nephrekh? (so you can just teleport them into rapid fire range at turn 2 instead of walking them across the table).
Looks decent, but you sure you don't want to have the Warriors in Nephrekh? (so you can just teleport them into rapid fire range at turn 2 instead of walking them across the table).
You lose 5++ for warriors in melee, which i rate high enought. I think it depends of which threats prevalent in your meta - melee or ranged.
Looks decent, but you sure you don't want to have the Warriors in Nephrekh? (so you can just teleport them into rapid fire range at turn 2 instead of walking them across the table).
You lose 5++ for warriors in melee, which i rate high enought. I think it depends of which threats prevalent in your meta - melee or ranged.
Could always Deep strike Orikan the Diviner too
Spoiler:
Sautekh +1 CP
HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Nephrekh +5 CP
HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Looks decent, but you sure you don't want to have the Warriors in Nephrekh? (so you can just teleport them into rapid fire range at turn 2 instead of walking them across the table).
You lose 5++ for warriors in melee, which i rate high enought. I think it depends of which threats prevalent in your meta - melee or ranged.
Could always Deep strike Orikan the Diviner too
Doesn't work that way. Orikan is a Sautekh and grants his abilities to other Sautekhs.
skoffs wrote: Looks decent, but you sure you don't want to have the Warriors in Nephrekh? (so you can just teleport them into rapid fire range at turn 2 instead of walking them across the table).
You lose 5++ for warriors in melee, which i rate high enought. I think it depends of which threats prevalent in your meta - melee or ranged.
Could always Deep strike Orikan the Diviner too
That wouldn't work.
If the Warriors are Nephrekh and Orikan is Sautekh,
A) you wouldn't be able to deep strike him with their Strategem.
B) they'd be different Dynasties so his buffs won't confer.
You could give another Sautekh HQ the Veil to bring him up to overcome A, but then you've still got B so it's pointless.
This still can work with non-character cryptek. But with all those beta rules for deep strike i feel that i can cover more ground by feet than deepstriking. Also, most armies want to come at you cause you have 3 DDA which constantly do damage.
Has anyone else tried a T. Stalker with twin heavy Gs to support two or three DDAs? I have tried it with two DDAs and lots of tesla immortals and found the list to run pretty well. The QS on the Stalker makes it pretty durable too.
Any idea about the points efficiency for paying for the stalker to reroll for those DDAs?
Brymm wrote: Has anyone else tried a T. Stalker with twin heavy Gs to support two or three DDAs? I have tried it with two DDAs and lots of tesla immortals and found the list to run pretty well. The QS on the Stalker makes it pretty durable too.
Any idea about the points efficiency for paying for the stalker to reroll for those DDAs?
Its long buried in the thread somewhere, but I believe the consensus was twofold.
1. Its better to just take another Doomsday Ark than a Stalker. (the price difference of like, 20 points is well worth it.)
2. Since DDAs benefit from Dynasty codes, the DDAs can be run in a Nihilak spearhead, meaning they can already reroll 1s if they didn't move.
Brymm wrote: Has anyone else tried a T. Stalker with twin heavy Gs to support two or three DDAs? I have tried it with two DDAs and lots of tesla immortals and found the list to run pretty well. The QS on the Stalker makes it pretty durable too.
Any idea about the points efficiency for paying for the stalker to reroll for those DDAs?
I have tested it. In theory you can give immortals \ Sautekh DDA 2+ rerollable hit. In practice another DDA is just better.
I think that Sautekh is our best, all around Dynasty.
Give us access to the most characters, who have some really good rules (though you have to build around it)
Dynasty Code is occasionally useful in almost all builds (so that you don't need to build around it).
Stratagem is a really big fly-swatter for times when you just need that unit to go down. Once again, you do not need to build around it.
That being said, I don't think we'll see many Sautekh lists at ATC or ETC... as those formats really encourage specialization in lists, and Sautekh really is a generalist.
Anpu-adom wrote: I think that Sautekh is our best, all around Dynasty.
Give us access to the most characters, who have some really good rules (though you have to build around it)
Dynasty Code is occasionally useful in almost all builds (so that you don't need to build around it).
Stratagem is a really big fly-swatter for times when you just need that unit to go down. Once again, you do not need to build around it.
That being said, I don't think we'll see many Sautekh lists at ATC or ETC... as those formats really encourage specialization in lists, and Sautekh really is a generalist.
Maybe I'm just blind to it...but how is the dynastic code useful? Destroyers already ignore movement penalties. DDAs in my mind are either taking the -1 for moving with heavy, or the -1 to move and advance with assault, since the code only kicks in when advancing, right?
Stalkers don't get it, so I guess maybe I'm missing the value. The stratagem and character access are both, as you say, excellent.
Anpu-adom wrote: I think that Sautekh is our best, all around Dynasty.
Give us access to the most characters, who have some really good rules (though you have to build around it)
Dynasty Code is occasionally useful in almost all builds (so that you don't need to build around it).
Stratagem is a really big fly-swatter for times when you just need that unit to go down. Once again, you do not need to build around it.
That being said, I don't think we'll see many Sautekh lists at ATC or ETC... as those formats really encourage specialization in lists, and Sautekh really is a generalist.
Maybe I'm just blind to it...but how is the dynastic code useful? Destroyers already ignore movement penalties. DDAs in my mind are either taking the -1 for moving with heavy, or the -1 to move and advance with assault, since the code only kicks in when advancing, right?
Stalkers don't get it, so I guess maybe I'm missing the value. The stratagem and character access are both, as you say, excellent.
Destroyers should be in another dynasty, thought the doomsdays dont get -1 to hit when they move normally with Sautekh, just get a weaker shot. Though generally when your wanting to move them up the feild to get the flayers in range, all the larger targets are gone. So str 8 is just as helpful
Anpu-adom wrote: I think that Sautekh is our best, all around Dynasty.
Give us access to the most characters, who have some really good rules (though you have to build around it)
Dynasty Code is occasionally useful in almost all builds (so that you don't need to build around it).
Stratagem is a really big fly-swatter for times when you just need that unit to go down. Once again, you do not need to build around it.
That being said, I don't think we'll see many Sautekh lists at ATC or ETC... as those formats really encourage specialization in lists, and Sautekh really is a generalist.
Maybe I'm just blind to it...but how is the dynastic code useful? Destroyers already ignore movement penalties. DDAs in my mind are either taking the -1 for moving with heavy, or the -1 to move and advance with assault, since the code only kicks in when advancing, right?
Stalkers don't get it, so I guess maybe I'm missing the value. The stratagem and character access are both, as you say, excellent.
Also destroyer can now advance and fire if they need to get in range. And can still be deadly with EP even with the -1 to hit.
1) When you advance, heavy and rapid fire weapons are treated as assault, allowing you to shoot them although at a -1.
2) Heavy weapons do not take a -1 for moving, except when they advance.
So this means you can move your DDAs without a penalty to your main guns, unless you advance, in which case you take a -2 (it's effectively treated as an assault weapon, so it takes a -1 for that, but it's is still actually a heavy so you take an additional -1 for moving at all)
Destroyers only take a -1 when they advance as they never take the normal movement penalties on their heavy weapons.
Like I said, the Code is occasionally useful, but not something that you need to build around in order to increase your effectiveness. If anyone was forced to build a mono-Dynasty force, I suspect that Sautekh would be the leading contender with Mephrit being a close second.
Brymm wrote: Has anyone else tried a T. Stalker with twin heavy Gs to support two or three DDAs? I have tried it with two DDAs and lots of tesla immortals and found the list to run pretty well. The QS on the Stalker makes it pretty durable too.
Any idea about the points efficiency for paying for the stalker to reroll for those DDAs?
Its long buried in the thread somewhere, but I believe the consensus was twofold.
1. Its better to just take another Doomsday Ark than a Stalker. (the price difference of like, 20 points is well worth it.)
2. Since DDAs benefit from Dynasty codes, the DDAs can be run in a Nihilak spearhead, meaning they can already reroll 1s if they didn't move.
The catch there would be that we're restricted to a maximum of three DDAs in a list, now. If you want to increase your anti armor capabilities, a HGC Stalker can come in handy there, both in supporting the DDAs (if going Sautekh) and on its own..
And personally, I find Nephrekh too valuable to leave out of any list I build, now. It's become my default, usually with a Sautekh Spearhead.
1) When you advance, heavy and rapid fire weapons are treated as assault, allowing you to shoot them although at a -1.
2) Heavy weapons do not take a -1 for moving, except when they advance.
So this means you can move your DDAs without a penalty to your main guns, unless you advance, in which case you take a -2 (it's effectively treated as an assault weapon, so it takes a -1 for that, but it's is still actually a heavy so you take an additional -1 for moving at all)
Destroyers only take a -1 when they advance as they never take the normal movement penalties on their heavy weapons.
Is this the consensus? News to me if so. I thought any weapon could now be advanced and fired with only a -1 to hit.
Remember advancing is normal movement with D6 added to the length but normal charges and shooting prevented except for assault.
1) When you advance, heavy and rapid fire weapons are treated as assault, allowing you to shoot them although at a -1.
2) Heavy weapons do not take a -1 for moving, except when they advance.
So this means you can move your DDAs without a penalty to your main guns, unless you advance, in which case you take a -2 (it's effectively treated as an assault weapon, so it takes a -1 for that, but it's is still actually a heavy so you take an additional -1 for moving at all)
Destroyers only take a -1 when they advance as they never take the normal movement penalties on their heavy weapons.
Is this the consensus? News to me if so. I thought any weapon could now be advanced and fired with only a -1 to hit.
Remember advancing is normal movement with D6 added to the length but normal charges and shooting prevented except for assault.
This is definitely not the consensus.
At the risk of this diverging into YMDC territory, when you treat the heavy weapon as assault, it is no longer being treated as heavy. Therefore, the -1 a heavy weapon being treated as an assault gets for advancing is just the normal -1 penalty that assault weapons get when they advance.
1) When you advance, heavy and rapid fire weapons are treated as assault, allowing you to shoot them although at a -1.
2) Heavy weapons do not take a -1 for moving, except when they advance.
So this means you can move your DDAs without a penalty to your main guns, unless you advance, in which case you take a -2 (it's effectively treated as an assault weapon, so it takes a -1 for that, but it's is still actually a heavy so you take an additional -1 for moving at all)
Destroyers only take a -1 when they advance as they never take the normal movement penalties on their heavy weapons.
Is this the consensus? News to me if so. I thought any weapon could now be advanced and fired with only a -1 to hit.
Remember advancing is normal movement with D6 added to the length but normal charges and shooting prevented except for assault.
This is definitely not the consensus.
At the risk of this diverging into YMDC territory, when you treat the heavy weapon as assault, it is no longer being treated as heavy. Therefore, the -1 a heavy weapon being treated as an assault gets for advancing is just the normal -1 penalty that assault weapons get when they advance.
Well, I am not going to derail the discussion, so this can be a topic brought up in YMDC. I'll simply say that there are at least two approaches to how the last line of the rule is worded.
Sautekh units only get -1 when advancing with heavy weapons.
"If a unit with this code Advances, it treats all ranged weapons it is equipped with as Assault weapons until the end of the turn (e.g. a Rapid Fire 1 weapon is treated as an Assault 1 weapon, and a Heavy D6 weapon is treated as an Assault D6 weapon etc.)."
Heavy weapons become assault weapons when advancing. Assault weapons only get -1 to hit when advancing.
Do you guys think the Sautekh Strat (+1 to hit if you did a wound on the target with another unit of the same code) is good enough to miss out on the Nihilak Bonus (Reroll of 1s to hit if unit didnt move)? Did anybody do the maths on that already? - Sorry if I have missed it..
If you want to burst down a specific unit in the first round i think Sautekh would be better (since you buff other units too, not only your DDAs but your Destroyer and Immortals). If you go Nihilak chances are you are going to use the Gauss-Weapons of DDAs too late in the game. On the other hand you likely get the Nihilak Bonus for DDAs in the backfield every turn. Close call for me..
Do you guys think the Sautekh Strat (+1 to hit if you did a wound on the target with another unit of the same code) is good enough to miss out on the Nihilak Bonus (Reroll of 1s to hit if unit didnt move)? Did anybody do the maths on that already? - Sorry if I have missed it..
If you want to burst down a specific unit in the first round i think Sautekh would be better (since you buff other units too, not only your DDAs but your Destroyer and Immortals). If you go Nihilak chances are you are going to use the Gauss-Weapons of DDAs too late in the game. On the other hand you likely get the Nihilak Bonus for DDAs in the backfield every turn. Close call for me..
Any thoughts?
You could always go to www.dice-hammer.com and see for yourself.
The thing to consider in addition though, is that the stratagem costs 2CP and is for one target for one turn only, while Nihilakh has none of those limitations.
As for the statistical consideration, 1 out of every 6 dice becomes a '1', so rerolling ones, means you increase damage output by 1/6.
A BS 3+ means you hit 4/6 times, +1 to hit means you now hit 5/6 times, this is a 1/4 increase (since 4/6 goes to 5/6) This is larger than 1/6 which reroll 1s gives you.|
The statistical comparison is thus straightforward bu the tactical is not.
Gangrel767 wrote: and this is all assuming you have rolled a 1 on your # of shots...
IDK I'm still super skeptical of the DDA. Big Swing... which means big hit or BIG MISS!
Well, if you are skeptical, give it a shot. I play with two in my lists, and they have been all-stars so far. They more often than not do a huge amount of damage over the course of the game.
Do you guys think the Sautekh Strat (+1 to hit if you did a wound on the target with another unit of the same code) is good enough to miss out on the Nihilak Bonus (Reroll of 1s to hit if unit didnt move)? Did anybody do the maths on that already? - Sorry if I have missed it..
If you want to burst down a specific unit in the first round i think Sautekh would be better (since you buff other units too, not only your DDAs but your Destroyer and Immortals). If you go Nihilak chances are you are going to use the Gauss-Weapons of DDAs too late in the game. On the other hand you likely get the Nihilak Bonus for DDAs in the backfield every turn. Close call for me..
Any thoughts?
I would say you want to look at the rest of your army. I originally had the DDA with Nihilakh, but once the big FAQ came out with the changes to CP for battalions, having a Sautekh Warlord and Detachment became much more important for me, due to Hyperlogic Strategy.
we have a somewhat super casual group at my store. Looking to play a monolith. I know it's very subpar, but all 3 times I've played necrons, Ive never gotten to field one and I need to get it out of my system. Suggestions?
I feel the Monolith is not even *that* bad. Its overpriced, yeah, but it does have a reasonable damage output, decent survivability and utility. Running it with the Deceiver might be fun. Relocate the Monolith near the front lines and assault out of it with a big unit of CCrons.
rvd1ofakind wrote: More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap
Not sure what you obsession with being a contrarian about destroyers is, look at the math and it shows with the stratagem (the thing that makes them so good) a squad of 6 should kill an onager on average. You rolled lower? Your opponent made more saves? That has no bearings on tactics and I can assure you nobody wants to hear about it every time you have a bad roll. It has no place in this thread.
Huh, that's kind of a weird list.
He gave the Mephrit CCB warlord Merciless Tyrant but didn't give the barge a Tesla Cannon so it can't benefit from it.
He's taking a bunch of smaller unit sized Warriors.
He put the Gauss Tomb Blades in Nephrekh instead of Mephrit.
10 whipcoil Wraiths and no Destroyers.
...
But it came second so I guess it worked out despite all that.
rvd1ofakind wrote: More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap
Not sure what you obsession with being a contrarian about destroyers is, look at the math and it shows with the stratagem (the thing that makes them so good) a squad of 6 should kill an onager on average. You rolled lower? Your opponent made more saves? That has no bearings on tactics and I can assure you nobody wants to hear about it every time you have a bad roll. It has no place in this thread.
Obsession? I keep taking them and they keep failing. I'm just reporting on my games. Wraiths die(since they're one of the most durable things we have, I guess that's fine), destroyers fail to do anything useful. Immortals obliterate enemy troops(I stay 24'' away and fire 2 6s shots that autohit (basically) and the best thing my opponent can have is 1 S3/S4 shot for their troops at that range) and I outscore them xD It's a weird playstyle. Also Deceiver is just MVP every game AND I've yet to go first in all my necron games so far (6). Last game deceiver killed about 600 pts worth of stuff lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 5 destros attacking onager with stratagem:
15 shots - > 13.333 hits -> 7.407 wounds -> 4.5 failed saves = 9 damage. So my 8 damage wasn't even that bellow average taking into account thay you can re-roll a save with CP.
HQ: Cryptek, SoL, Chrono [95] Warlord: Hyperlogical Strategist, Artefact,Veil of Darkness
HQ: Anarykr [167]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 10x Tesla Immortals [170]
Troops: 10x Tesla Immortals [170]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Nephrekh +1 CP [745]
HQ: Lord, Hypherphase Sword [76]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 6x Wraiths [330]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Total: 2000
CP: 9 ; 12 drops, (not counting any stratagems, but likely hold Destroyers in DS)
Idea looks ok, but there is room for improvement IMO:
1. Lord in nephrekh dont give noone anything. Destroyers is only infantry, they already reroll everything. Put him in sautekh detach in exchange of Anrakyr. Or make him Sautekh in Nephrekh detachment. If i understand it correctly, you would lose dynasty code which is not a big deal, but you still have access to stratagem to deep strike destroyers/
2. Put scarabs into nephrekh detachment. Its 3-6 Fast attack slots.
3. IMO Anrakyr is not worth it here. Find points for Imotekh or save points by using ordinary overlord.
I have been toying with close to that concept, and while thinking about your list i found new iteration of mine, which contains all units from codexi want:
Spoiler:
Nephrekh +5 CP HQ: Overlord (84) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [87] Warlord: Immortal Pride
HQ: Cryptek (70) - Staff of Light (10), Canoptek Cloak (5) [85] Artefact: Veil of Darkness
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Troops: 20x Necron Warriors [240]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 6x Canoptek Wraith [330]
rvd1ofakind wrote: More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap
Not sure what you obsession with being a contrarian about destroyers is, look at the math and it shows with the stratagem (the thing that makes them so good) a squad of 6 should kill an onager on average. You rolled lower? Your opponent made more saves? That has no bearings on tactics and I can assure you nobody wants to hear about it every time you have a bad roll. It has no place in this thread.
Obsession? I keep taking them and they keep failing. I'm just reporting on my games. Wraiths die(since they're one of the most durable things we have, I guess that's fine), destroyers fail to do anything useful. Immortals obliterate enemy troops(I stay 24'' away and fire 2 6s shots that autohit (basically) and the best thing my opponent can have is 1 S3/S4 shot for their troops at that range) and I outscore them xD It's a weird playstyle. Also Deceiver is just MVP every game AND I've yet to go first in all my necron games so far (6). Last game deceiver killed about 600 pts worth of stuff lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 5 destros attacking onager with stratagem:
15 shots - > 13.333 hits -> 7.407 wounds -> 4.5 failed saves = 9 damage. So my 8 damage wasn't even that bellow average taking into account thay you can re-roll a save with CP.
What units do you typically move with Deceivers Grand Strategy? And how do you typically use it when you know you are going second?
rvd1ofakind wrote: AND I've yet to go first in all my necron games so far
Actually, I wonder what the stats on that are. (Player 1 win ratio)
Like, almost every game I've seen or experienced, whoever goes first almost always is the person who ends up winning. Plus, I don't think I've EVER seen anyone who has seized initiative lose. It is the absolute most detrimental thing that can happen in a game, as far as I'm concerned.
This is the main reason I want to run Nephrekh, so I can keep my most important units off the table to prevent them from dying before I have a chance to even have them contribute to the battle.
I just deploy most of my stuff out of LoS. Get better terrain if you can't. The only things my opp can see are warriors(for anti deepstrike), wraiths(too tall usually) and characters(they don't care). I've always won going 2nd.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I just deploy most of my stuff out of LoS. Get better terrain if you can't. The only things my opp can see are warriors(for anti deepstrike), wraiths(too tall usually) and characters(they don't care). I've always won going 2nd.
rvd1ofakind wrote: More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap
I don't think Onagers are really the ideal target for destroyers. They are good, but not equally good against everything. Onagers have high enough toughness not to be in their sweet spot, and an invulnerable save that cuts down on the destroyers effective AP (also did the AdMech have repair guys fixing it up from behind? Were they Stygies and keeping you beyond 12"?)
nintura wrote: we have a somewhat super casual group at my store. Looking to play a monolith. I know it's very subpar, but all 3 times I've played necrons, Ive never gotten to field one and I need to get it out of my system. Suggestions?
There's the Deceiver shenanigans, but you don't have that option, and it's pretty unreliable anyway.
Deep Striking in with Nephrek Destroyers isn't a bad option. The Destroyers can hide in the shadow of the Monolith- put them only in LoS of their Target, and hidden from most of the enemy by the lith. Monoliths and Destroyers also attract the same kind of shooting as each other, lascannons, so the lith might draw fire from them.
Assault slingshot: The Dimensional Corridor stratagem lets an infantry unit deploy within 3" of the lith, then move and assault. So if you have a unit of Lychguard or Flayed Ones on the board, then anything withing ~16" of the lith (a pretty huge area) can be charged.
Refuse flank trick: Deploy 2 infantry units and a HQ with the VoD on one flank, then the Monolith on the opposite flank. You then have the option to shift both infantry units and the HQ over to the monolith. 40 Warriors and a Cryptek with the Veil, Ignore morale WL trait, and Chronometron would work. It might catch an opponent out, but even if they see it coming you don't have to do it so they can't be sure whats going to happen. You can do the same thing after deep striking the lith, but not till turn 3.
That's some uses for the lith, not sure how good any of it will be!
rvd1ofakind wrote: More Necron games. More disappointment with Destroyers :( Took 2 full turns to kill an Onager(barelly) and got 4 wounds on a kastelan /clap
I don't think Onagers are really the ideal target for destroyers. They are good, but not equally good against everything. Onagers have high enough toughness not to be in their sweet spot, and an invulnerable save that cuts down on the destroyers effective AP (also did the AdMech have repair guys fixing it up from behind? Were they Stygies and keeping you beyond 12"?)
Mark.
Well what else do destroyers shoot? Skitarii? Nope, they're dead to Tesla. Kastelans? Nope, nothing trades against Kastelans. I'd kill 1-2 and get my unit wiped. So Onagers are the only thing that's left.
The problem is that I'm wasting SOOO much CP on destroyers: 1cp to deepstrike and 1 every turn for the stratagem
rvd1ofakind wrote: I just deploy most of my stuff out of LoS. Get better terrain if you can't. The only things my opp can see are warriors(for anti deepstrike), wraiths(too tall usually) and characters(they don't care). I've always won going 2nd.
Is it common to have enough LOS terrain for that?
Ruins 1st floor = LoS blocking hides every troops like unit. And random giant blocks of Impassable terrain hides wraiths.
rvd1ofakind wrote: The problem is that I'm wasting SOOO much CP on destroyers: 1cp to deepstrike and 1 every turn for the stratagem
Well, if they're not working for you, maybe you should spend those points on something else instead.
If you can't think of anything better to spend the points on, maybe Necrons aren't for you...
Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.
You don't have to use the stratagem for destroyers though. I only use it when I really, really need a tough unit to die. Against most heavy infantry (their intended target) they are still pretty effective without the buff, especially if you have a Destroyer Lord with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rvd1ofakind wrote: Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.
Ah, that might be your problem. 5+ to wound is still a problem for destroyers, even with the rerolls. You might want to add a heavy in there. Or spend a bit more and get a DDA.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.
Dont like to run lists with out at least 2 DDA, 3 if possible
It might be a large investment, but DDAs pretty much define competitive necrons these days. Two minimum, three if possible. We have no other anti tank/monster unit that is as durable and reliable.
Well what else do destroyers shoot? Skitarii? Nope, they're dead to Tesla. Kastelans? Nope, nothing trades against Kastelans. I'd kill 1-2 and get my unit wiped. So Onagers are the only thing that's left.
The problem is that I'm wasting SOOO much CP on destroyers: 1cp to deepstrike and 1 every turn for the stratagem
Well, they are very good against light vehicles and elite infantry (so Sicarians and Dunestriders/dragoons for AdMech). If your opponent didn't bring any then yes, you may be deprived of optimal targets...
rvd1ofakind wrote: Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.
Not really. Having 1 will help draw attention away from Destroyers. Do you run Wraiths? They too draw fire away from Destroyers. Expecting ponies to do their one trick isn't going to work. It's always an army effort to make the synergy work as a whole.
Could it be that the heat that the destroyers got, kept the rest of your army alive to win the game? You keep winning don't you?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Aren't Kastellans only T6? They should be getting wounded on 4s then.
Also, Admech Destroyers might be fair game too.
Good one! I forgot about Kataphrons but Necron Destroyers should be ideally suited to wiping them from the face of the earth (or whatever planet they happen to be on). They should not have pinched the name...
rvd1ofakind wrote: Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.
Not really. Having 1 will help draw attention away from Destroyers. Do you run Wraiths? They too draw fire away from Destroyers. Expecting ponies to do their one trick isn't going to work. It's always an army effort to make the synergy work as a whole.
Could it be that the heat that the destroyers got, kept the rest of your army alive to win the game? You keep winning don't you?
Well they were advertised as "deepstrike, point and kill anything" aaaaaaand they're FAR from that. "Do OK damage" maybe?
Just as a funny observation. It seems to me that ideal destroyer targets (Hellblasters, Kastellans, Kataphrons, etc) are also all units that would be ideal for KILLING destroyers.
nintura wrote: we have a somewhat super casual group at my store. Looking to play a monolith. I know it's very subpar, but all 3 times I've played necrons, Ive never gotten to field one and I need to get it out of my system. Suggestions?
There's the Deceiver shenanigans, but you don't have that option, and it's pretty unreliable anyway.
Deep Striking in with Nephrek Destroyers isn't a bad option. The Destroyers can hide in the shadow of the Monolith- put them only in LoS of their Target, and hidden from most of the enemy by the lith. Monoliths and Destroyers also attract the same kind of shooting as each other, lascannons, so the lith might draw fire from them.
Assault slingshot: The Dimensional Corridor stratagem lets an infantry unit deploy within 3" of the lith, then move and assault. So if you have a unit of Lychguard or Flayed Ones on the board, then anything withing ~16" of the lith (a pretty huge area) can be charged.
Refuse flank trick: Deploy 2 infantry units and a HQ with the VoD on one flank, then the Monolith on the opposite flank. You then have the option to shift both infantry units and the HQ over to the monolith. 40 Warriors and a Cryptek with the Veil, Ignore morale WL trait, and Chronometron would work. It might catch an opponent out, but even if they see it coming you don't have to do it so they can't be sure whats going to happen. You can do the same thing after deep striking the lith, but not till turn 3.
That's some uses for the lith, not sure how good any of it will be!
You've brought up an interesting point. If I deepstrike the monolith in, even on my first turn, assuming the enemy either deploys close to my line, or moves forward towards my smaller army, I can still pull a unit up to it and still be closer than the 9" limit right? Theoretically, if I DS a monolith to 9" away from an enemy unit, then spend a CP to pull a unit of Lychguard to it, they can start 6" away from the enemy correct?
nintura wrote: we have a somewhat super casual group at my store. Looking to play a monolith. I know it's very subpar, but all 3 times I've played necrons, Ive never gotten to field one and I need to get it out of my system. Suggestions?
There's the Deceiver shenanigans, but you don't have that option, and it's pretty unreliable anyway.
Deep Striking in with Nephrek Destroyers isn't a bad option. The Destroyers can hide in the shadow of the Monolith- put them only in LoS of their Target, and hidden from most of the enemy by the lith. Monoliths and Destroyers also attract the same kind of shooting as each other, lascannons, so the lith might draw fire from them.
Assault slingshot: The Dimensional Corridor stratagem lets an infantry unit deploy within 3" of the lith, then move and assault. So if you have a unit of Lychguard or Flayed Ones on the board, then anything withing ~16" of the lith (a pretty huge area) can be charged.
Refuse flank trick: Deploy 2 infantry units and a HQ with the VoD on one flank, then the Monolith on the opposite flank. You then have the option to shift both infantry units and the HQ over to the monolith. 40 Warriors and a Cryptek with the Veil, Ignore morale WL trait, and Chronometron would work. It might catch an opponent out, but even if they see it coming you don't have to do it so they can't be sure whats going to happen. You can do the same thing after deep striking the lith, but not till turn 3.
That's some uses for the lith, not sure how good any of it will be!
You've brought up an interesting point. If I deepstrike the monolith in, even on my first turn, assuming the enemy either deploys close to my line, or moves forward towards my smaller army, I can still pull a unit up to it and still be closer than the 9" limit right? Theoretically, if I DS a monolith to 9" away from an enemy unit, then spend a CP to pull a unit of Lychguard to it, they can start 6" away from the enemy correct?
Timing prevents that, one is at the end of the movement phase, the other in the beginning
rvd1ofakind wrote: Like, I know all evidence shows to the contrary, so I'll keep trying them but. I dnno. I'm just having trouble with T7. DDA pew pew I guess? I have 0 now. And I assume I'd need 3 so it's a big-ish investment.
Not really. Having 1 will help draw attention away from Destroyers. Do you run Wraiths? They too draw fire away from Destroyers. Expecting ponies to do their one trick isn't going to work. It's always an army effort to make the synergy work as a whole.
Could it be that the heat that the destroyers got, kept the rest of your army alive to win the game? You keep winning don't you?
Well they were advertised as "deepstrike, point and kill anything" aaaaaaand they're FAR from that. "Do OK damage" maybe?
At this level we can all do math to tell what 5 destroyers do against a target on average and what they don't do, can't we?
Maelstrom808 wrote: Pretty sure kastellans are 6 T7 wounds with a 4+ inv save if they choose. They are a pretty tough nut to crack, even for destroyers.
On top of that, they are are almost perfectly suited to killing destroyers with their heavy phosphor blasters.
I'd say this was a worst case scenario. Add in some dice rolls that swung the wrong way and it's pretty easy to see that ending badly for destroyers.
Oh wow, that is tough. I guess DDA is better for them then. Or try to engage them in CC with wraiths. Are they good in CC?
Maelstrom808 wrote: Pretty sure kastellans are 6 T7 wounds with a 4+ inv save if they choose. They are a pretty tough nut to crack, even for destroyers.
On top of that, they are are almost perfectly suited to killing destroyers with their heavy phosphor blasters.
I'd say this was a worst case scenario. Add in some dice rolls that swung the wrong way and it's pretty easy to see that ending badly for destroyers.
Oh wow, that is tough. I guess DDA is better for them then.
Or try to engage them in CC with wraiths. Are they good in CC?
Kastellans would be very hard to get into CC. I play vs admech regularly. They always sit in the middle of a cawl castle, with layers of troops between me and them.
If you CAN get them into assault, and they are in x3 blaster configuration, they are pushovers, and they *can't move* in the double-tap mode.
Basically, I think of them as mini drednaughts for the purposes of killing them. If I deep strike 6 destroyers on them, and they use extermination protocols, I expect I can kill all 4 in the squad in a turn if my dice are decent.
There are going to be some units in the game that your army is just not going to be equipped to handle. Even the codex. Not much you can do about it. Can they be tied down? Can you swarm them with large numbers of scarabs?
Maelstrom808 wrote: Pretty sure kastellans are 6 T7 wounds with a 4+ inv save if they choose. They are a pretty tough nut to crack, even for destroyers.
On top of that, they are are almost perfectly suited to killing destroyers with their heavy phosphor blasters.
I'd say this was a worst case scenario. Add in some dice rolls that swung the wrong way and it's pretty easy to see that ending badly for destroyers.
Oh wow, that is tough. I guess DDA is better for them then.
Or try to engage them in CC with wraiths. Are they good in CC?
4 destroyers are slightly better than a single DDA. With EP stratagem they are twice that of the DDA (not including the flayer arrays)
The deceiver is probably the most logical thing to drop. You could drop the wraiths, but you might need them to engage those robots.
Or you could drop the warriors and run the immortals as MSU. You could field immortals in units of 6-6-7 with your current configuration. Might make them susceptible to getting wiped though.
Apparently destroyers outgun the DDA if they pop the strat. I don't like relying on low chances though. Mathhammer is good on paper, but I found its unreliable in practice.
