Sgt. Cortez wrote: Pretty cool, the apostle was already an auto-include in every melee heavy CSM list, now even more so. It will be interesting to see what the other prayers are. And best thing, I already have quite a number of nurgley friends to use as disciples...
Do you write for the GW Community website or something?
No I'm serious. I really don't unterstand the complaining this time and usually the apostle is my go to HQ after a Daemon Prince and a Sorcerer. Two Helbrutes accompanied by an Apostle worked fine with my Renegades, where I would run him to stay close. In fact being a HQ alone Made it easier to squeeze him in a list than the comparable Tallyman. Someone has to lead that additional spearhead detachment.
Complaining that obliterators are in a two pack would be like complaining that tacticals come in a box of 10 when you want to run 3 units of 5.
They gave you more models than what you absolutely need to run a minimum sized squad, they technically gave you two whole units. You wanting to run an extra squad or max out one without ever needing to buy more than one box is not a problem they should have to cater to.
Buy one, split another box if you HAVE to run three of them. Of all the things to gripe about...
I don't think we're actually getting a full Obliterator kit. Seems far more likely that what we received in Shadowspear is all we should expect for now.
Also beginning to wonder where that Sorcerer is, given the rumour engine backpack - perhaps it's in a BSF expansion.
Is no one aware of the disciples boosting the roll? Do we always just just to stupid conclusions?
Because obviously the disciples aren't going to cost extra, right? And there's no way they're upping the pts for the apostle himself due to his new rules. No way.
Likely no more than 5 points and that's baseless conjecture.
I'll tell you what is true though. NO ONE used him before. Now we have an undeniable spellcaster with no less than 10 possible spells.
Nothing new there then, bar the Khorne Daemon Stuff.
I'd also bet money that GW will say something like "And don't forget to pick up some Warp Talons or Raptors to take advantage of that +1 attack bonus!" in the article.
I'm also partly convinced Harkaan Worldender or whatever his name is was conceived to try and sell the excess number of Chaos Raptors boxes.
You know, I like how GW is constantly promoting FW junk, and they just turn back and bite hand that feeds them in petty jerk fit. Like, pretending Sanguinary Guard (only oh, the signature and best known unit of the IX Legion) and Azkaellon (only oh, their second in command, and possibly one of two HH era loyalists still mattering in 40K) don't exist to not let yucky plastics into their overpriced, shoddy made elitist club
You know, I like how GW is constantly promoting FW junk, and they just turn back and bite hand that feeds them in petty jerk fit. Like, pretending Sanguinary Guard (only oh, the signature and best known unit of the IX Legion) and Azkaellon (only oh, their second in command, and possibly one of two HH era loyalists still mattering in 40K) don't exist to not let yucky plastics into their overpriced, shoddy made elitist club
I think this is just one of those filler articles and the WE preview will come up in a few hours
You know, I like how GW is constantly promoting FW junk, and they just turn back and bite hand that feeds them in petty jerk fit. Like, pretending Sanguinary Guard (only oh, the signature and best known unit of the IX Legion) and Azkaellon (only oh, their second in command, and possibly one of two HH era loyalists still mattering in 40K) don't exist to not let yucky plastics into their overpriced, shoddy made elitist club
I think this is just one of those filler articles and the WE preview will come up in a few hours
More over it's a "if you don't want 2nd ed bezerkers here's an option" article.
Well, at least now we know why Khorne Bezerkers are so bezerk.
"They are chosen from the smallest, scrawniest members of the adeptus astartes from across the galaxy, those members of the chapter who passed the test to become a space marine, but only just...
with millenia to hone their napoleon complexes, these vicious murderers are the scourge of the galaxy..."
You know, I like how GW is constantly promoting FW junk, and they just turn back and bite hand that feeds them in petty jerk fit. Like, pretending Sanguinary Guard (only oh, the signature and best known unit of the IX Legion) and Azkaellon (only oh, their second in command, and possibly one of two HH era loyalists still mattering in 40K) don't exist to not let yucky plastics into their overpriced, shoddy made elitist club
I think this is just one of those filler articles and the WE preview will come up in a few hours
More over it's a "if you don't want 2nd ed bezerkers here's an option" article.
Please, those Berserkers are old enough to drink even in the US this year!
What do you all think about Abaddon's size in comparison to a Primaris/guardsman? He's wearing Termi armour, after all, and TDA should be way bigger than it is now. The Atramentar Malek in the Night Lords novel is described as close to three metres tall in TDA, so would Abby be a good start for a "true scale" Termi if you use use Primaris as a basis for "true scale" Marines? I'm building a small kill team around a BA Termi suffering from the Blak Rage and use Primaris to convert regular SM for his honour guard, so normal Termis are way too small to represen the main dude.
I am a little surprised we have seen absolutely nothing about the Noctilith Crown (stargate terrain piece) despite it going on preorder tomorrow. I'm not gonna buy it if I have no idea what it does!
Wayniac wrote: I am a little surprised we have seen absolutely nothing about the Noctilith Crown (stargate terrain piece) despite it going on preorder tomorrow. I'm not gonna buy it if I have no idea what it does!
It's an 8E terrain piece. What it does is waste one of your three detachment slots in matched play.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I think I like him? It's nicely posed, but almost looks like an AoS/40k mashup conversion. A good one like, but a conversion all the same.
It's kinda like the Phobos Librarian--I think it will grow on you.
But....top left. New Terminator Armoured Chaos Lord?
It's the current one, just with slight reposing of the axe and combi-melta.
Wayniac wrote: I am a little surprised we have seen absolutely nothing about the Noctilith Crown (stargate terrain piece) despite it going on preorder tomorrow. I'm not gonna buy it if I have no idea what it does!
It's an 8E terrain piece. What it does is waste one of your three detachment slots in matched play.
Wait, fortifications count towards the detachment limit??
Also re: Lord of executions: Cool model, stupid face. Hopefully, it's swappable as I have a skull helm Chaos Warrior head that'll be perfect for him.
I actually really like him, the fact he essentially has a powerfist with no -1 to hit and does bonus mortal wounds is nice. By no means an auto include for me or anything just a nice extra to sprinkle in.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I think I like him? It's nicely posed, but almost looks like an AoS/40k mashup conversion. A good one like, but a conversion all the same.
But....top left. New Terminator Armoured Chaos Lord?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I think I like him? It's nicely posed, but almost looks like an AoS/40k mashup conversion. A good one like, but a conversion all the same.
But....top left. New Terminator Armoured Chaos Lord?
Very hard to tell. That doesn't look like the current guy (despite us having seen the current model in the Night Lords article) but he doesn't quite look like a Terminator either. His pose kind of reminds me of the old metal Chaos Lord. Could it be a new non-Terminator Lord?
Apparently, it is the old Terminator Lord, it's just hard to tell because it's blurry and his pose.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I think I like him? It's nicely posed, but almost looks like an AoS/40k mashup conversion. A good one like, but a conversion all the same.
But....top left. New Terminator Armoured Chaos Lord?
Very hard to tell. That doesn't look like the current guy (despite us having seen the current model in the Night Lords article) but he doesn't quite look like a Terminator either. His pose kind of reminds me of the old metal Chaos Lord. Could it be a new non-Terminator Lord?
Looks to be stood on the spiky rock from the current termi lord kit, likewise the axe looks very similar. Could be a slight kitbash with new terminator parts?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I think I like him? It's nicely posed, but almost looks like an AoS/40k mashup conversion. A good one like, but a conversion all the same.
But....top left. New Terminator Armoured Chaos Lord?
AlmightyWalrus wrote: On the subject of the Imperium not having anything like those disciples:
Spoiler:
That is all.
Grimaldus is a particular special character.
That is all.
The argument was that the Imperium doesn't have anything like those disciples. I only need to provide one particular example to debunk that statement. It's a type example of why absolute statements generally are inadvisable.
I know it's not conclusive, but the Chaos Terminator Lord is showing as 'No Longer Available Online'. Ditto Termies, Abadave, Chaos Lord (Power Armour) and Dark Apostle (which is a shame. I like the Dark Apostle)
Suggestive this may very well be an entirely new model?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Depending on the price, the Executioner might even be a better countercharge model than the Greater Possessed.
He seems like the GSC locus. GW really like adding these cheap character hunting combat characters all of a sudden. He's probably similar to a company champion in the DA book. I doubt I'd favor hm over the greater possessed unless points are an issue because 10:1 he only has 3 swings with that axe and no aura. That said, there is strategy in taking lots of cheap semi killy HQ's so you can take advantage of the character rules for targeting.
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stormcraft wrote: The World Eaters Rules are dissapointing. All this "Kill characters better" stuff seems really situational and weak.
I Dont see any reason at all to not run Khorne Berserkers as Red Corsairs to make them much better as WEs.
Yea, advance and charge makes berserkers way more threatening.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I know it's not conclusive, but the Chaos Terminator Lord is showing as 'No Longer Available Online'. Ditto Termies, Abadave, Chaos Lord (Power Armour) and Dark Apostle (which is a shame. I like the Dark Apostle)
Suggestive this may very well be an entirely new model?
If your referring to that blurry model still it isn't. I have built 5 of those kits, it's definitely the generic old multi part chaos lord in terminator armor and to his right is a blurry forgefiend. They may release a new model however, but that picture is definitely not proof of anything.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I know it's not conclusive, but the Chaos Terminator Lord is showing as 'No Longer Available Online'. Ditto Termies, Abadave, Chaos Lord (Power Armour) and Dark Apostle (which is a shame. I like the Dark Apostle)
Suggestive this may very well be an entirely new model?
The Lord is probably getting a reboxing to make him Black Legion instead of Crimson Slaughter.
The lord in power armor though who knows since that's still metal as far as I know.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: On the subject of the Imperium not having anything like those disciples:
Spoiler:
That is all.
Grimaldus is a particular special character.
That is all.
The argument was that the Imperium doesn't have anything like those disciples. I only need to provide one particular example to debunk that statement. It's a type example of why absolute statements generally are inadvisable.
That 'absolute statement' already had an acknowledgment of that particular exception.
I would not be surprised if the new Terminator box replces both the old one and the Terminator Lord. It's not hard to imagine that in addition to updating the sculpt, and adding options they didn't have before (like Combi-Plasmas and maybe lightning claws) you can just make one of them into a Terminator Lord.
Although Wayniac is probably right in that it's just getting a rebox
"you know what everyone wants for their Khorne daemons?"
"Uh...well I'd love a way for my army to actually work as an army instead of a deep strike tack-on ally, maybe something so my rank and file troops aren't made of paper AND super slow when not deep striking?"
stormcraft wrote: The World Eaters Rules are dissapointing. All this "Kill characters better" stuff seems really situational and weak.
I Dont see any reason at all to not run Khorne Berserkers as Red Corsairs to make them much better as WEs.
'
They're not Troops for the Red Corsairs. That makes quite a difference.
None of these changes are new either, the renegades trait was always better for them imo. World Eaters love a good suicide delivery box as well, get a rhino banged up as possible, barrel it forwards in movement and get it killed in overwatch on the charge, surviving marines disembark a little closer and charge in. The alternative is to give a rhino dual combi-plas and rapid fire the overcharged plasma in the shooting phase to try and gib itself after moving unless they fixed that?
random ideas I came up with in 2 seconds that would help khorne daemon armies more than this crap:
1) A stratagem that lets me move a unit directly towards the nearest enemy unit after taking 1 or more casualties: Bezerk Bloodrage, 1CP
2) A warlord trait that grants a +1T aura, changing the line infantry from T3 5++ 7-point infantry that can't benefit from cover to quasi-functional T4 5++ 7-point infantry.
3) A relic called "Coward's Demise" that grants Khorne models within 6" the ability to make an attack against any enemy model that falls back within 1" of them.
Eugh, yet another ugly monopose character that looks like it was designed for sigmar, then 40kified. Can they not be bothered to put the tiniest amount of basic customisation potential in their sculpts?
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: Eugh, yet another ugly monopose character that looks like it was designed for sigmar, then 40kified. Can they not be bothered to put the tiniest amount of basic customisation potential in their sculpts?
Seemingly not. That went away a long time ago, sadly. I hate the plethora of monopose sculpts they keep putting out.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: Eugh, yet another ugly monopose character that looks like it was designed for sigmar, then 40kified. Can they not be bothered to put the tiniest amount of basic customisation potential in their sculpts?
Seemingly not. That went away a long time ago, sadly. I hate the plethora of monopose sculpts they keep putting out.
I understand this to a point but the character has 1 load out and you're not likely to have multiples in most cases, it's not worth making a complex multi-part in that scenario.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I think I like him? It's nicely posed, but almost looks like an AoS/40k mashup conversion. A good one like, but a conversion all the same.
But....top left. New Terminator Armoured Chaos Lord?
That's the Lord Discordant.
Nah the lord Discordant has a halberd and doesn't have a dark angel helmet on a trophy rack, also it doesn't have a trophy rack.
Wow, look at that battle of order for the chaos side. Abbadon has brought just about all the legions plus all the notable renegade warbands to Vigilus. He really wants to make sure Vigilus burns!
The Brazen skull strategem amuses me, something about a daemon just stooping down and throwing a random skull at someone like its a monkey in a zoo sounds really goofy.
the_scotsman wrote:"you know what everyone wants for their Khorne daemons?"
"Uh...well I'd love a way for my army to actually work as an army instead of a deep strike tack-on ally, maybe something so my rank and file troops aren't made of paper AND super slow when not deep striking?"
"no, a ranged attack!
Eh?
Eh?"
I'm thrilled to have more stuff for my Khorne Daemons, keeps me interested in finishing the project. I am less thrilled at the couple things they showed, but hoping Legion of Skulls does something more legit ...
the_scotsman wrote:random ideas I came up with in 2 seconds that would help khorne daemon armies more than this crap:
1) A stratagem that lets me move a unit directly towards the nearest enemy unit after taking 1 or more casualties: Bezerk Bloodrage, 1CP
2) A warlord trait that grants a +1T aura, changing the line infantry from T3 5++ 7-point infantry that can't benefit from cover to quasi-functional T4 5++ 7-point infantry.
3) A relic called "Coward's Demise" that grants Khorne models within 6" the ability to make an attack against any enemy model that falls back within 1" of them.
... like any of that
Re: Brazen Skull, I'll probably use it every turn anyway. Any model can throw (summon?) it and it janks its way through targeting with that deliciously generic "pick a target", so into combat, out of combat, whatever, and apparently suffers no negatives of any kind. Khorne stuff tends to have pretty high BS (Bloodmaster 2+ IIRC) just nothing to do with it
I'm all down for getting new characters, but the executioner seems to be bumping up on the Exalted Champion (which no one really took anyway), who re rolls all hits and wounds vs characters, and has an aura bubble. Unless this guy has some more hidden gimmicks, is really really cheap, or some combination of the two, I don't know what he brings to the table.
Now, what are the chances they'll release the full set of chaos cultists? Easy to build kits are the new fashion, and they keep showing off the cultist that were only available in Dark Vengeance, i.e, the shirtless knife guy, the clawed champion, etc. Some of these models were even shown off on the boxart of some fairly recent terrain sets, so I don't know if that's a good sign or not.
EDIT: Reposted the Lord Executioner pic. Turns out it was posted a few pages back.
Kirasu wrote: Perfect opportunity to release new Berserkers, since GW players love Khorne.
They might save that for the World Eaters codex.
They will do.
Will they though? Given the saturation of daemon, khorne and chaos models (some of which is following up on wrath and rapture), another burst of chaos releases seems... dubious.
Especially since the keeper of secrets should be lurking around for a release as well, alongside an likely AoS Slaanesh release (and the separate boxes for fiends and the harpist).
And warcry.... Really, I'd expect berserkers and WE to be put on a back shelf somewhere, just as a break from all the chaos stuff this year.
GaroRobe wrote: Now, what are the chances they'll release the full set of chaos cultists? Easy to build kits are the new fashion, and they keep showing off the cultist that were only available in Dark Vengeance, i.e, the shirtless knife guy, the clawed champion, etc. Some of these models were even shown off on the boxart of some fairly recent terrain sets, so I don't know if that's a good sign or not.
Was he shown off before? He did show up in the artwork, you can tell by his backpack. The face looks like a FW space wolf thing.
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I am genuinely more interested on the way too blurry man on the left.. I want to believe him to be the new chaos lord, even if he could simply be a regular terminator...?
Kirasu wrote: Perfect opportunity to release new Berserkers, since GW players love Khorne.
They might save that for the World Eaters codex.
They will do.
Will they though? Given the saturation of daemon, khorne and chaos models (some of which is following up on wrath and rapture), another burst of chaos releases seems... dubious.
Especially since the keeper of secrets should be lurking around for a release as well, alongside an likely AoS Slaanesh release (and the separate boxes for fiends and the harpist)
Yes. After Thousand Sons and Death Guard, I have no doubt we’ll get World Eaters and Emperors Children at some point (I think they were even mentioned in a preview seminar at one point, as examples of where they can go when all the codexes were done).
Come on GW. This release is still only the same size as the gloomspite release and smaller than the nighthaunt or deathguard releases.
We need a few more surprises.
Kirasu wrote: Perfect opportunity to release new Berserkers, since GW players love Khorne.
They might save that for the World Eaters codex.
They will do.
Will they though? Given the saturation of daemon, khorne and chaos models (some of which is following up on wrath and rapture), another burst of chaos releases seems... dubious.
Especially since the keeper of secrets should be lurking around for a release as well, alongside an likely AoS Slaanesh release (and the separate boxes for fiends and the harpist)
Yes. After Thousand Sons and Death Guard, I have no doubt we’ll get World Eaters and Emperors Children at some point (I think they were even mentioned in a preview seminar at one point, as examples of where they can go when all the codexes were done).
the_scotsman wrote: random ideas I came up with in 2 seconds that would help khorne daemon armies more than this crap:
1) A stratagem that lets me move a unit directly towards the nearest enemy unit after taking 1 or more casualties: Bezerk Bloodrage, 1CP
This is unlikely to be actually useful, because then i'll just shoot that unit even harder. Maybe try a rhino next time.
2) A warlord trait that grants a +1T aura, changing the line infantry from T3 5++ 7-point infantry that can't benefit from cover to quasi-functional T4 5++ 7-point infantry.
Bloodletters are for killing not for tanking. They deepstrike and have a 3D6 charge. This is useless.
3) A relic called "Coward's Demise" that grants Khorne models within 6" the ability to make an attack against any enemy model that falls back within 1" of them.
I am genuinely more interested on the way too blurry man on the left.. I want to believe him to be the new chaos lord, even if he could simply be a regular terminator...?
The terminator is the current terminator lord. You can tell by the dark angel helmet on his trophyrack. You can seem him more clearly in the havoc pic. I think he's got an unhelmeted face, which may be a conversionn.
Chikout wrote: Come on GW. This release is still only the same size as the gloomspite release and smaller than the nighthaunt or deathguard releases.
We need a few more surprises.
As almost all Deamon Engine teasers have been revealed, and based on the old models they're showing in army photos on Warhammer Community, I'm afraid we're only left with a Havoc reveal and a Venomcrawler with baleflamer option at this point.
Ooph, looks like only 1 of each heavy weapon. Not all the heavy weapons or bodies on that sprue so I assume there's a second one with 1 of each of the rest. That'll hurt. Still a cool looking kit though.
Looks like the left sprue is repeated, the missile launcher and lascannon have very similar poses but with different greaves and torso fronts (which are seperate parts on the sprue) and ditto for the Heavy Bolter and rotor cannon guys.
Ooph, looks like only 1 of each heavy weapon. Not all the heavy weapons or bodies on that sprue so I assume there's a second one with 1 of each of the rest. That'll hurt. Still a cool looking kit though.
I'm not seeing enough legs/torsos for 5 guys (might be missing it) so possible there is a second sprue.
I am genuinely more interested on the way too blurry man on the left.. I want to believe him to be the new chaos lord, even if he could simply be a regular terminator...?
The terminator is the current terminator lord. You can tell by the dark angel helmet on his trophyrack. You can seem him more clearly in the havoc pic. I think he's got an unhelmeted face, which may be a conversionn.
so sad, didn't noticed the previous picture. Thanks for pointing it out!
Ooph, looks like only 1 of each heavy weapon. Not all the heavy weapons or bodies on that sprue so I assume there's a second one with 1 of each of the rest. That'll hurt. Still a cool looking kit though.
I'm not seeing enough legs/torsos for 5 guys (might be missing it) so possible there is a second sprue.
the lascannon backpack looks to be on the opposite sprue however, so maybe the 3rd sprue is unique?
Latro_ wrote: these are on the website publicly accessible so dakka wont get in trouble... right?
Ok, NOW I'm getting excited. Not that I'll be getting any of these, but it's very nice to have kits with all the options for people.
I wonder if the Havoc and Termie kits will have enough of duplicate options, or if they'll keep the standard 1-2 of each per kit?
Would be nice if the Havocs followed the same design as Devs (2 of each weapon per 5 models)
And hopefully there will be enough Axes and power fists for the whole unit of Termies
Ooph, looks like only 1 of each heavy weapon. Not all the heavy weapons or bodies on that sprue so I assume there's a second one with 1 of each of the rest. That'll hurt. Still a cool looking kit though.
~2 of each would be consistent with the loyalist devastator kit that got revamped a few years back.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: Complaining that obliterators are in a two pack would be like complaining that tacticals come in a box of 10 when you want to run 3 units of 5.
That doesn't even make sense. If Oblits come in units of 3, and can only be bought in pairs, that means you always end up with one spare. That's annoying. Tacs at least can be taken as 2x5 or 1x10.
Man those havocs are old school. Back in the Heresy we shot all our lascannons one-handed and we didn't even know what to do with our other hand and we liked it!
ceorron wrote: Better picture of the new Dark Apostle, AND Havoks!!!!.
Oh my! *faints*
There are even better images still H.B.M.C.
To Latro_:
Also I don't know why GW would mind us posting these on DakkaDakka really. If they did then maybe they would do something about it and DakkaDakka would get in trouble. Until I see anything that way, I see no problem.
In the end they are just images don't think they are worth all that much, if anything we are giving GW free advertising.
The 2 Havoc sprues shown only include 3 Marines, but 1 of each heavy weapon and all the Champion weapons. So there either one of the sprues will be doubled (likely considering that would either give you 2 Champions with only 3 total packs, or 6 total packs for only 4 Marines) Or there is a 3rd sprue we haven't seen with the other 2 Marines and duplicate weapons
If both sprues are doubled, it would get you 2 of each Heavy and enough Marines and packs, but it would also give you 6 total models, which could be cool
Whilst the Lascannons' fist is a little weird, the rest are very nice. I like the Old Skool style of shoulder launchers, and how the ML is a combination of the original top-down magazine from RT and the big tube launcher of 2nd Ed.
Seems there's a Plasma or Melta for the champ, which is an interesting change. Didn't see a flamer.
Sadly the bodies are all set poses, with torsos and legs connected, but hey, we're kinda getting used to GW minis becoming less and less dynamic/kitbashy.
Still, plastic Havoks. Exactly what I wanted... now can we have an Oblit kit that isn't monopose?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Whilst the Lascannons' fist is a little weird, the rest are very nice. I like the Old Skool style of shoulder launchers, and how the ML is a combination of the original top-down magazine from RT and the big tube launcher of 2nd Ed.
Seems there's a Plasma or Melta for the champ, which is an interesting change. Didn't see a flamer.
Sadly the bodies are all set poses, with torsos and legs connected, but hey, we're kinda getting used to GW minis becoming less and less dynamic/kitbashy.
Still, plastic Havoks. Exactly what I wanted... now can we have an Oblit kit that isn't monopose?
There’s a flamer a little to the left of the plasma/Melta.
Not Online!!! wrote: Hmm, i would rather see the comkplete CSM sprue, aas in what heavy weapons are in there. (Hopefully AC and Rotor aswell as the HB)
I noticed people were complaining about the weird FW post on warhammer community. I think this might have appeared because, unusually, there are no new FW models going up on preorder this week.
Usually there'd be a community post telling you to buy bomb rats or whatever. They couldn't do that, as there was nothing new, so instead they put in this post telling you to buy old 30k bits.
"Steve that Havoc sprue sure does look great! Love it! I just had one note from the focus group here....uh...
'it seems like people tend to get annoyed when we include only a single copy of each weapon on the sprue, especially when the loyalist equivalent to this unit actually gets two copies of each'
What do you make of that Steve?"
"Oh, those whiners! Look, if I included TWO copies of any of the heavy weapons, I wouldn't have space on here for a melta gun, flamer, power maul, chainsword, bolter, mandatory basing rock, plasma gun or bespoke loincloth for the havoc sergeant!
EEEEEEVERYONE knows you give that guy as many upgrades as you can cram on him! Why, if my havocs ever left home without their Power Maul/Melta Gun sergeant how would they ever get anything done?"
I wonder if the WHC team forgot that a new CSM/terminator kit is about to be released, which will more than likely not be compatible with the 20 year old FW World Eaters kit(s).
I think it's more they saw an easy opportunity to push old, existing upgrade kits (that not a lot of people have probably bought lately) to catch the rush of hype of the new kits. It's still dull, but it's logical for easy money.
the_scotsman wrote: "Steve that Havoc sprue sure does look great! Love it! I just had one note from the focus group here....uh...
'it seems like people tend to get annoyed when we include only a single copy of each weapon on the sprue, especially when the loyalist equivalent to this unit actually gets two copies of each'
What do you make of that Steve?"
"Oh, those whiners! Look, if I included TWO copies of any of the heavy weapons, I wouldn't have space on here for a melta gun, flamer, power maul, chainsword, bolter, mandatory basing rock, plasma gun or bespoke loincloth for the havoc sergeant!
EEEEEEVERYONE knows you give that guy as many upgrades as you can cram on him! Why, if my havocs ever left home without their Power Maul/Melta Gun sergeant how would they ever get anything done?"
Dude, we only see one of probably 2 sprues for the HAvoc box, because ATM there are only 3 completely assembleable dudes in that sprue, min is 5 however, so maybee we get doubles?
the_scotsman wrote: "Steve that Havoc sprue sure does look great! Love it! I just had one note from the focus group here....uh...
'it seems like people tend to get annoyed when we include only a single copy of each weapon on the sprue, especially when the loyalist equivalent to this unit actually gets two copies of each'
What do you make of that Steve?"
"Oh, those whiners! Look, if I included TWO copies of any of the heavy weapons, I wouldn't have space on here for a melta gun, flamer, power maul, chainsword, bolter, mandatory basing rock, plasma gun or bespoke loincloth for the havoc sergeant!
EEEEEEVERYONE knows you give that guy as many upgrades as you can cram on him! Why, if my havocs ever left home without their Power Maul/Melta Gun sergeant how would they ever get anything done?"
There’s either a doubled sprue or another sprue as there’s only 3 bodies there.
The havoc sprue confuses me. I guess maybe you get two of it in the box? Because otherwise there'd need to be a sprue of 2 more guys and some more guns - not sure which.
I guess that might be it. The SM one doesn't have doubles of each gun, only some of them, so maybe the extra sprue will have 2 guys and a second one of some or other guns.
Of course, there'll also be things like the autocannon guys from Shadowspear and whatever's in the "tactical" squad box as well. So in the end I think building a havoc squad will be a lot like building a devastator squad.
the_scotsman wrote: "Steve that Havoc sprue sure does look great! Love it! I just had one note from the focus group here....uh...
'it seems like people tend to get annoyed when we include only a single copy of each weapon on the sprue, especially when the loyalist equivalent to this unit actually gets two copies of each'
What do you make of that Steve?"
"Oh, those whiners! Look, if I included TWO copies of any of the heavy weapons, I wouldn't have space on here for a melta gun, flamer, power maul, chainsword, bolter, mandatory basing rock, plasma gun or bespoke loincloth for the havoc sergeant!
EEEEEEVERYONE knows you give that guy as many upgrades as you can cram on him! Why, if my havocs ever left home without their Power Maul/Melta Gun sergeant how would they ever get anything done?"
Dude, we only see one of probably 2 sprues for the HAvoc box, because ATM there are only 3 completely assembleable dudes in that sprue, min is 5 however, so maybee we get doubles?
Exactly. There MUST either be a 3rd sprue we haven't seen that has the other 2 dudes, or both of the sprue we've seen are included twice in each box
the_scotsman wrote: "Steve that Havoc sprue sure does look great! Love it! I just had one note from the focus group here....uh...
'it seems like people tend to get annoyed when we include only a single copy of each weapon on the sprue, especially when the loyalist equivalent to this unit actually gets two copies of each'
What do you make of that Steve?"
"Oh, those whiners! Look, if I included TWO copies of any of the heavy weapons, I wouldn't have space on here for a melta gun, flamer, power maul, chainsword, bolter, mandatory basing rock, plasma gun or bespoke loincloth for the havoc sergeant!
EEEEEEVERYONE knows you give that guy as many upgrades as you can cram on him! Why, if my havocs ever left home without their Power Maul/Melta Gun sergeant how would they ever get anything done?"
Dude, we only see one of probably 2 sprues for the HAvoc box, because ATM there are only 3 completely assembleable dudes in that sprue, min is 5 however, so maybee we get doubles?
Exactly. There MUST either be a 3rd sprue we haven't seen that has the other 2 dudes, or both of the sprue we've seen are included twice in each box
-
I wouldn't mind A 6 man Havoc box, altough i am unsure as to why the havoc champion has a PG in the hand, even though he can't have one.
the_scotsman wrote: "Steve that Havoc sprue sure does look great! Love it! I just had one note from the focus group here....uh...
'it seems like people tend to get annoyed when we include only a single copy of each weapon on the sprue, especially when the loyalist equivalent to this unit actually gets two copies of each'
What do you make of that Steve?"
"Oh, those whiners! Look, if I included TWO copies of any of the heavy weapons, I wouldn't have space on here for a melta gun, flamer, power maul, chainsword, bolter, mandatory basing rock, plasma gun or bespoke loincloth for the havoc sergeant!
EEEEEEVERYONE knows you give that guy as many upgrades as you can cram on him! Why, if my havocs ever left home without their Power Maul/Melta Gun sergeant how would they ever get anything done?"
Dude, we only see one of probably 2 sprues for the HAvoc box, because ATM there are only 3 completely assembleable dudes in that sprue, min is 5 however, so maybee we get doubles?
That'd be awesome, I'm just amused by the fact that they put flamers/meltas/power weapons in there. It's a very GW thing to do.
This may be premature but…. I am beginning to think the Emperor's Children will be rolled into the new Chaos Marine book instead of getting their own book like the Deathguard/Thousand Sons. GW just does not know what to do with Slaanesh. It's really sad because my first chaos army for 40K Rogue Trader was a Slaanesh Warband from the old Realm of Chaos book. That is how long I have been waiting for GW to do something cool with Slaanesh. They need to get rid of the mouth-speaker Noise Marines, which look totally dumb, and go with an esthetic like Forge World did with Eidolan. Heavy metal rockers with head shaved on one side and long hair on the other, attractive and strange at the same time, not bug-eyed mouth-speakers. A proper set of plastic noise marines with guns that actually look like guitars! And a few new characters/followers(groupies) to round them out. I know the lore says they don't function as a legion any more, but neither did Thousand Sons until they ret-conned them. And if they make a Fulgrim model I think they would put the band back together for another tour!
Yeah, I wish EC and WE Codices would hurry up an drop with their Primarchs. It grates my OCD that all 4 god-aligned Legions don't have equal representation in the rules.
But it's pretty much par for the course with GW. I remember when Khorne Deamonkin came out and everyone thought other Daemonkin books would follow. It almost looked like Tzeentch was going to get a 40K equivalent after it's big AoS release and Tsons came out. But then 8E dropped and KDK disappeared as a faction.
I have my doubts that EC or WE will get a full Codex. And even if they do, who knows if Fulgrim or Angron will get rules/models to go with them.
Albino Squirrel wrote: The painted unit has 5 different bodies. So must be another sprue.
While I agree there is probably a 3rd sprue, I actually don't think the painted imagine is 100% proof of 5 unique bodies. The grieves/chain loincloths appear to be separate bits, so the ML/LC model could be the same "pose" just with alternate details. Same with the Rotocannon/HB models There is still a possibility that the 2 sprue we have seen are it, but they are doubled in the kit
Hopefully the missing havoc sprue will have alternate left arms for the lascannon guy. Like maybe 4 god-specific offensive hand gestures plus one for Chaos Undivided. Don't let me down gdubs.
I really need the GW marketing team to stop shooting themselves in the foot. You can not leave space for speculation on the future of the product your trying to sell in the tabletop environment.
Either people will speculate and then be disappointed when it doesn't come true or people will speculate negatively and be pushed away because of the uncertainty.
If your going to show the havoc sprue, then show all of it. Showing some of it was a terrible idea. Now people are worried if there is only one of each weapon or if you can even only take one of each weapon, etc erc.
Galef wrote: Yeah, I wish EC and WE Codices would hurry up an drop with their Primarchs. It grates my OCD that all 4 god-aligned Legions don't have equal representation in the rules.
But it's pretty much par for the course with GW. I remember when Khorne Deamonkin came out and everyone thought other Daemonkin books would follow. It almost looked like Tzeentch was going to get a 40K equivalent after it's big AoS release and Tsons came out.
But then 8E dropped and KDK disappeared as a faction.
I have my doubts that EC or WE will get a full Codex. And even if they do, who knows if Fulgrim or Angron will get rules/models to go with them.
I can sort of remember back in 5th edition times, where people were "certain" we'd see individual Legion books. And eventually, it seems we did get a couple. And that was it. There really no logic behind any of it, except, "we felt like doing something." I don't think GW has many ideas for a EC book, or a WE one. Or a WB one for that matter. Even though, to me, it would have made sense to have what seems now to be Daemonkin be Word Bearers. Let other Legions be the "Cultist" ones and have WB be the "deamon summoning ones."
But with Abaddon being redone, everything had to be Black Legion focused, of course. It honestly just is all a mess and one I think GW sees as not worth trying to untangle. So they just lob whatever out there into the mess, because, whatever, it's already a mess.
BrotherGecko wrote: I really need the GW marketing team to stop shooting themselves in the foot. You can not leave space for speculation on the future of the product your trying to sell in the tabletop environment.
Either people will speculate and then be disappointed when it doesn't come true or people will speculate negatively and be pushed away because of the uncertainty.
If your going to show the havoc sprue, then show all of it. Showing some of it was a terrible idea. Now people are worried if there is only one of each weapon or if you can even only take one of each weapon, etc erc.
They haven’t shown the sprue yet, it was datamined I’m pretty sure. The words with it might explain more.
Ooph, looks like only 1 of each heavy weapon. Not all the heavy weapons or bodies on that sprue so I assume there's a second one with 1 of each of the rest. That'll hurt. Still a cool looking kit though.
This.
I thought this was pretty obvious from the sprue pics, actually. If you look at the Space Marine Devastator sprue, there are repeated "sections" though the sprues themselves are exactly replicated. As far as these ones go, if they're showing just the two of them, I wonder if the "third" sprue is simply a repeat of the one with two bodies on it.
That's still kinda problematic, however, as it means you still lack doubles of some of the heavy weapons.
If it IS more like the Devastator sprue, however, then there's a third sprue that potentially combines elements of both the shown sprues. I'm hoping this is the case.
BrotherGecko wrote: I really need the GW marketing team to stop shooting themselves in the foot. You can not leave space for speculation on the future of the product your trying to sell in the tabletop environment.
Either people will speculate and then be disappointed when it doesn't come true or people will speculate negatively and be pushed away because of the uncertainty.
If your going to show the havoc sprue, then show all of it. Showing some of it was a terrible idea. Now people are worried if there is only one of each weapon or if you can even only take one of each weapon, etc erc.
Playing devils advocate, it's making people spend a lot of time looking at those sprues, the pictures and discussing the models. There is plenty of press for these models because of it.
Ultimately they product details will come up by the time of pre-order and they will confirm one way or the other. You can't really commit to a purchase based on number of guns etc. without knowing whats in there, so the speculation ongoing is pointless until the product details go up and even then your reactions to the contents will be unaffected by this thread.
It seems that there must be a missing sprue because if you were to double the missile launcher sprue, you would have a total of 3 "arming arms". There is another "arming arm" on the 2nd spure and this seems like a really odd piece to give extras of. At least that is what I am getting out of this.
Oh, and I am betting that a "good guy" buys it on Vigilus due to the Echoes of War Mission: Demise of a Legend being the final mission in recreating the flow of battle for the planet. Maybe Calgar is about to have the shortest miniature shelf life ever.
stinkyjunk wrote: Oh, and I am betting that a "good guy" buys it on Vigilus due to the Echoes of War Mission: Demise of a Legend being the final mission in recreating the flow of battle for the planet. Maybe Calgar is about to have the shortest miniature shelf life ever.
Yeah, I'm guess that too, although I seriously doubt it's going to be Primarneus Calgar. More likely it'll be a non-Primaris character....that will probably get "reborn" as a Primaris later on
GW Facebook is also asking people not to spoil anything if they get Vigilis Ablaze early, so there is certainly something happening story-wise
Elbows wrote: The shoulder mounted heavy weapons are such a nice throw-back. Diggin' it. Now if only we returned to the heavy stabilized boots.
Their boots seem to have claws on them to grab onto the ground with. It's not my favourite feature of the models.
To be honest I'm pretty sure that nailing your feet to the ground would be detrimental to remaining balanced. It might be useful to be able to take a step back if you fire a gun with a huge recoil, rather than just fall over backwards. Or to move your feet to brace in different directions if you had to switch targets. But maybe things are different in power armour.
I'm now picturing havocs and devastators falling over backwards and then standing up again like weebles every time they fire. I'm fine with this image.
You know, one thing I don't like about this guy - if 8th edition likes to give armies lots of support characters, where the hell is loyalist version?
And by that, I don't mean a new model or anything, just actually using existing ones. SM actually have lots of 'Lord X' characters, why GW won't give them datasheets?
See this guy, for one, you could give him slight variation of the rules given to CSM model above, and triple the sales overnight, but apparently GW hates creativity/money...
You know, one thing I don't like about this guy - if 8th edition likes to give armies lots of support characters, where the hell is loyalist version?
And by that, I don't mean a new model or anything, just actually using existing ones. SM actually have lots of 'Lord X' characters, why GW won't give them datasheets?
See this guy, for one, you could give him slight variation of the rules given to CSM model above, and triple the sales overnight, but apparently GW hates creativity/money...
Now you're complaining that loyalists don't get analogues of every single non-primaris Chaos option too? Newsflash: GW aren't making new models for non-primaris loyalist SM. So that means CSM should never get a new power armor unit ever again?
That jump pack captain model is a legacy model. He's neither plastic nor primaris. They're not going to waste their time creating new rules for legacy models.
Why do Loyalist need mirrored version of the chaos characters?
Chapters tend to follow the Codex Astarte. It doesn't make sense for them to have a Chaos equivalent of everything. Not all Chaos Space Marines come from Chapters that followed the Codex Astartes. They're not going to keep following the Space Book when they do go rogue, since they won't be confined to its structures.
Looking closely at the poses of the Havocs in the assembled shot and then at the sprues, I'm confident that you'll need duplicates of both sprues to make the pictured squad.
The lascannon and missile launcher models are identically posed and both use the body from the middle of the left-hand sprue. Therefore you would need two of the left-hand sprue frame to construct both of those models.
The Rotor Cannon and Heavy Bolter models are duplicated poses using the body from the right-hand sprue. Similarly, you would need two of the right-hand sprue to make both of those models.
The Champ is the only model that isn't doubled, in the shot, but since we know they're using two left-hand sprues already, you can assume you can construct two champs/special weapons guys from the kit.
On the sprue there are two sets of missile launcher claw arms for the backpack. There is also a second arm for the missile launcher/lascannon with an open hand to press against the weapon. I'm guessing that means more weapons on the last sprue.
Brother Xeones wrote: Looking closely at the poses of the Havocs in the assembled shot and then at the sprues, I'm confident that you'll need duplicates of both sprues to make the pictured squad.
The lascannon and missile launcher models are identically posed and both use the body from the middle of the left-hand sprue. Therefore you would need two of the left-hand sprue frame to construct both of those models.
The Rotor Cannon and Heavy Bolter models are duplicated poses using the body from the right-hand sprue. Similarly, you would need two of the right-hand sprue to make both of those models.
The Champ is the only model that isn't doubled, in the shot, but since we know they're using two left-hand sprues already, you can assume you can construct two champs/special weapons guys from the kit.
Specific bits from both could be duplicated on a third sprue to make sure you don't get enough for more than 5 bodies.
Nope. I'm positive the studio squad was created with 4 sprues—two each of the ones we're looking at now. They're just giving you a few optional parts here and there to camouflage the fact that you've got duplicate bodies.
Specific bits from both could be duplicated on a third sprue to make sure you don't get enough for more than 5 bodies.
I will allow that this is possible but why wouldn't they give you different posses for the last two guys then? I just don't think it's likely. One point in your favor though—isn't the loyalist Dev kit 3-sprues?
EDIT: OK, Nevermind. I was wrong. You can't find the armor torso fronts for either the missile launcher guy or the HB guy on these sprues. That's gotta mean there's one sprue we haven't seen which basically confirms a 3-sprue kit with no sprue dupication. It's just unfortunate the the poses are duplicated in that case...
Brother Xeones wrote: Nope. I'm positive the studio squad was created with 4 sprues—two each of the ones we're looking at now. They're just giving you a few optional parts here and there to camouflage the fact that you've got duplicate bodies.
Specific bits from both could be duplicated on a third sprue to make sure you don't get enough for more than 5 bodies.
I will allow that this is possible but why wouldn't they give you different posses for the last two guys then? I just don't think it's likely. One point in your favor though—isn't the loyalist Dev kit 3-sprues?
It saves them having to do an additional sculpt. These are all digital files so should be easy to duplicate. Usually when they do this kind of thing they invert the duplicated part so the dupe is a mirror of the original and not identical. Obviously that doesn't work here unless you want left-handed havocs.
You know, one thing I don't like about this guy - if 8th edition likes to give armies lots of support characters, where the hell is loyalist version?
And by that, I don't mean a new model or anything, just actually using existing ones. SM actually have lots of 'Lord X' characters, why GW won't give them datasheets?
See this guy, for one, you could give him slight variation of the rules given to CSM model above, and triple the sales overnight, but apparently GW hates creativity/money...
He's literally just any of the current Champs with a fancy weapon. There's your equivalent.
I kinda want to see someone put a negative spin on this. Dakka has never let me down before.
Joking aside, that's actually fantastic news as I had been planning to get the eBook version anyway. My paper version had an accident with some coffee.
The Havocs look like duplicates at first glance for two reasons
You've got two sets of two poses and they all have the same head.
This makes them look samey, but if you look closely, the details of the torso/legs are totally different. Now, this does probably mean that you'll have two 'poses' to work with in each box and if you want a squad of all 4 of one weapon, I bet they'll make you buy 4 boxes of havocs.
That said, the Chaos Marines can take the same weapons, so getting a bunch of havocs won't be too bad, and you can supplement them with the heavy weapons you get with the Chaos Marine box to make things more varied.
Either way, Havocs are just Devastators, and I don't see Devastators on the table much these days, so I kind of expect these to just... not be important? You don't have to buy this kit to make a good army, is what I'm saying.
You could easily argue they're showing preferential treatment to the people who bought a digital copy? i.e. selectively giving out free product to one consumer over another?
Elbows wrote: You could easily argue they're showing preferential treatment to the people who bought a digital copy? i.e. selectively giving out free product to one consumer over another?
Yeah that's probably as close as we'll get to a "negative response". Sends a pretty clear message that GW prefers you to buy the digital vs the hard copy. I don't see them giving players free copies of the physical book.
But, of course, there are practical reasons for this.
This is probably the first time I've been tempted by an e-book. Or at least, this practice makes me think it's the way I might want to start going. Especially since I finally have a phone with the room on it.
Also, looking at those Havoc Sprues, I'll bet the last sprue is 2 bodies with options for regular bolters and probably bolt pistols/chainswords or something. I'm not holding out hope for multiple heavy weapons, though like I said, between the Chaos Marine kit, this, and Shadowspear, you should be able to keep too much 'sameyness' from infecting your army. I mean, there'll be 3 different autocannons ffs.
I like how the Havocs have different armour and are not just regular CSM with big guns. They might be good for converting characters too, as they look a bit beefier than the regular blokes.
Well I managed to get sole Venom Crawler for reasonable price. Now I just have to hope that there is going to be reasonable battleforce available for CSM soon.
drbored wrote: The Havocs look like duplicates at first glance for two reasons
You've got two sets of two poses and they all have the same head.
This makes them look samey, but if you look closely, the details of the torso/legs are totally different. Now, this does probably mean that you'll have two 'poses' to work with in each box and if you want a squad of all 4 of one weapon, I bet they'll make you buy 4 boxes of havocs.
That said, the Chaos Marines can take the same weapons, so getting a bunch of havocs won't be too bad, and you can supplement them with the heavy weapons you get with the Chaos Marine box to make things more varied.
Either way, Havocs are just Devastators, and I don't see Devastators on the table much these days, so I kind of expect these to just... not be important? You don't have to buy this kit to make a good army, is what I'm saying.
Yes, this is correct. I was always saying that. What I thought was happening was that you just had several options for front detailing so that the armor panels for each were different.
HOWEVER, I can see now that I was actually wrong in saying that there would be 2 sets of 2 duplicate sprues.
The poses are the same, but the torso fronts for both the missile launcher guy and the HB guy are not on the sprue anywhere that I can see. So that must mean their really is an additional sprue they're not showing us—and that nearly confirms that this will be a 3-sprue kit with no sprue duplication at all.
Brother Xeones wrote: Looking closely at the poses of the Havocs in the assembled shot and then at the sprues, I'm confident that you'll need duplicates of both sprues to make the pictured squad.
The lascannon and missile launcher models are identically posed and both use the body from the middle of the left-hand sprue. Therefore you would need two of the left-hand sprue frame to construct both of those models.
The Rotor Cannon and Heavy Bolter models are duplicated poses using the body from the right-hand sprue. Similarly, you would need two of the right-hand sprue to make both of those models.
The Champ is the only model that isn't doubled, in the shot, but since we know they're using two left-hand sprues already, you can assume you can construct two champs/special weapons guys from the kit.
EDIT: OK, Nevermind. I was wrong. You can't find the armor torso fronts for either the missile launcher guy or the HB guy on these sprues. That's gotta mean there's one sprue we haven't seen which basically confirms a 3-sprue kit with no sprue dupication. It's just unfortunate the the poses are duplicated in that case...
Virules wrote: Man, I wish we would get leaks already. It's killing me to wait until tomorrow morning when the early review videos go live.
Same, i'm dying to know the full rules for the lord discordant and all the renegade rules. There seems to be great potential in the vigilius 2 detachments. So much unknown that needs to be known >.<
My money is on Calgar dying. And before people whine about how how he just got a new model, I still remember Valten. That dude got THREE models and still died...
...and then died AGAIN because they had to retcon the first death out.
So Calgar dies, I'm betting. And since we know that Cypher is important to what's going on for Round 2, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Luther and/or the Lion make and appearance. I mean, the Dark Angels were already there in force in Round 1...
Manfred von Drakken wrote: My money is on Calgar dying. And before people whine about how how he just got a new model, I still remember Valten. That dude got THREE models and still died...
...and then died AGAIN because they had to retcon the first death out.
So Calgar dies, I'm betting. And since we know that Cypher is important to what's going on for Round 2, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Luther and/or the Lion make and appearance. I mean, the Dark Angels were already there in force in Round 1...
could be they're killing Dante and replacing him with a new primaris Blood Angel character. IIRC the blood angels show up.
With regard to Noise Marines and Berzerkers, I expect they’ll get their turn when their respective books come out.
And the Berzerkers May get new rules as well at that point. After all, a World Eater Berzerker may be somewhat nuttier and flightier than Common or Garden Devotees Of Khorne? Just speculation though.
Ooof. I'm glad because i'll probably use it, but not happy to see more of that mechanic in the game. A cover aura would have been better from a design standpoint.
That's any <legion> unit too. Would work on a Kytan, for example. That thing is slowly accruing some real buffs.
Also makes me think that stacking -2 to hit and 4++ on a max squad of AL Slaaneshi oblits might make them very tempting. You could even consider starting them on the board, with the -2 hit stack, to get them shooting T1...
Not that Alpha Legion Chaos Space Marines hard camping an objective is much better. I guess it makes more sense for the random chance on Prayers if that's what we should expect. GW should maybe have put that foot forward rather than the melee self buff.
grouchoben wrote: That's any <legion> unit too. Would work on a Kytan, for example. That thing is slowly accruing some real buffs.
Also makes me think that stacking -2 to hit and 4++ on a max squad of AL Slaaneshi oblits might make them very tempting. You could even consider starting them on the board, with the -2 hit stack, to get them shooting T1...
if you want to go all out
slaanesh terminators
-deploy in cover (or warp time them into some)
-master of possession gives them 4+ invuln and could sacrifice to heal them + re rolls on their guns (+ vets and endless cacophony)
- 2 to hit with prayer + al
-cast delightful agonies on them from slaanesh sorcerer for a 5+fnp
pretty annoying blob of 9 wounds to shift if going first, can nearly garuntee getting 2x turns of double shooting
with so many command points from cheap corsair battalions you could even spare a few re rolls on their saves.
Latro_ wrote: some more pics, looks like no new noise marines and another shot of havocs
To bad the same snap fit cultists.
Oh well, maybee we finally get a propper Set for cultists atleast.
I just hope we get the missing Cultists from Dark Vengeance, the leaders, flamer, stunner etc.
As for the options on the new CSM I think there are only 7 sets each of bolters and chainswords/bolt pistols. If buying one set that forces you into using special or heavy weapons.
you know the meta is gonna find that juiciness, there are the jigsaw combo pieces beginning to be laid out
in time to get a couple of tournies in before GW swing the holy faq nerf bat on em
also had a couple of beer i'm gonna reveal how WHC reveals the day before works because i'm not gonna bother with it after the weekend.
its a wordpress blog, every wordpress blog treats file uploads as a post number e.g. p=xxxxx
so the latest is:
href='https://www.warhammer-community.com/?p=54564
to see this vist a post view the source by right clicking scroll down the code till you get to:
<link rel='shortlink' href='https://www.warhammer-community.com/?p=54564' />
copy that link and keep visiting it increasing the number by 1
e.g.
href='https://www.warhammer-community.com/?p=54565
they upload assets/images before the posts go live, some are 'drafts' so you wont get anything some are public.
keep going till you get something that is all there is to it....yes its that simple! use your new skills wisely you can now fish for pics and earl youtubers ad rev when they cotton on to it 2hrs later
Well, Havocs look outstanding. Really everything, barring that Master of Derp previewed today, thus far has looked absolutely stunning.
CSM Sprues on the NZ store look great. If the pricing with the U.S. is consistent with the Gloomspite release, looks like the box will be $60 USD. A little steep for core troops, but it is a really gorgeous kit and unlike many of the kits out there, looks to have most of the units options included in it. All that considered I think it's probably worth the price.
Sabotage! wrote: Well, Havocs look outstanding. Really everything, barring that Master of Derp previewed today, thus far has looked absolutely stunning.
CSM Sprues on the NZ store look great. If the pricing with the U.S. is consistent with the Gloomspite release, looks like the box will be $60 USD. A little steep for core troops, but it is a really gorgeous kit and unlike many of the kits out there, looks to have most of the units options included in it. All that considered I think it's probably worth the price.
One of the Prayers is a -1 to hit for enemies attacking a unit with ranged weapons.
Okay, I guess I can get behind the new Dark Apostle. So far he can:
1. Do what he always did
2. Protect friendly units
3. Make himself a somewhat cheap combat monster.
My only issue is randumb at work again. Assuming the 2+ roll exists (I don't know where I read it), on average I'll spend 1CP to ensure success during a game. Not terrible but still annoying.
Sabotage! wrote: Well, Havocs look outstanding. Really everything, barring that Master of Derp previewed today, thus far has looked absolutely stunning.
CSM Sprues on the NZ store look great. If the pricing with the U.S. is consistent with the Gloomspite release, looks like the box will be $60 USD. A little steep for core troops, but it is a really gorgeous kit and unlike many of the kits out there, looks to have most of the units options included in it. All that considered I think it's probably worth the price.
60 for basic troops? Jikes.
Same price as Intercessors? Not too surprising I suppose.
Kanluwen wrote: My only issue is randumb at work again. Assuming the 2+ roll exists (I don't know where I read it), on average I'll spend 1CP to ensure success during a game. Not terrible but still annoying.
Either way, Havocs are just Devastators, and I don't see Devastators on the table much these days, so I kind of expect these to just... not be important? You don't have to buy this kit to make a good army, is what I'm saying.
Have they previewed the rules for the Havocs yet? I've been wondering if they'll go to something more like Horus Heresy rules where the entire unit can take heavy weapons rather than being limited to four.
gak and neither enough chainswords and or bolters for a full squad......
IMO, there just needs to be seven of either. I have always kitted the champion with a pistol and power weapon and I am going to model two special weapons of some sort. After that, I decide if the squad is going ranged or melee focused.
gak and neither enough chainswords and or bolters for a full squad......
I counted 7 bolters, which assuming you have your Champ in standard configuration and a special and heavy then that would be enough. There are also 7 chainswords, but that would kind of force you done the road of giving your Champ a power weapon if you kept the special and heavy weapon.
Latro_ wrote: some more pics, looks like no new noise marines and another shot of havocs
Wait... why does that look like they reboxed the cultists and left out the leaders and (more importantly) the special weapons?
That's... exactly what's been missing all this time. How does that help?
CSM kit needed at least one more bolter. Preferably all 10, but still
Gael Knight wrote: Getting a bit sick of GW using the same Codex cover over and over again.
It's pathetic.
No, it's smart business. Why spend money on new art that 96% of those people who will buy the army do not care about in any capacity. I couldn't even tell you what the cover of any of my codexes has on it, I've never given it a second thought.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Is there enough bolters if you assume that 2 guys have special/heavy weapons and the champion has a combi? Same for chainswords.
Yes...? I mean, if you want to build every squad as fully kitted out with every upgrade possible.
But honestly, I've been playing 40k since first edition and have almost never done that with even one or two squads. More plain bodies is generally more cost effective than dropping stuff on the sarge.
Gael Knight wrote: Getting a bit sick of GW using the same Codex cover over and over again.
It's pathetic.
No, it's smart business. Why spend money on new art that 96% of those people who will buy the army do not care about in any capacity. I couldn't even tell you what the cover of any of my codexes has on it, I've never given it a second thought.
Eh. The specific art never mattered to me, but I did like being able to identify different editions of a codex at a glance. Since GW has dropped putting <Xth> edition on books at all, its become more confusing, especially in indie stores that don't necessarily get rid of older versions of books (which is annoyingly common around here- I've noticed it a few times in different stores.
So where do we get the autocannon? They've been showing it with the basic csm kit but not on the havocs and it's not in the basic csm box either as far as I can tell. It better not be locked to shadowspear.
Roknar wrote: So where do we get the autocannon? They've been showing it with the basic csm kit but not on the havocs and it's not in the basic csm box either as far as I can tell. It better not be locked to shadowspear.
Roknar wrote: So where do we get the autocannon? They've been showing it with the basic csm kit but not on the havocs and it's not in the basic csm box either as far as I can tell. It better not be locked to shadowspear.
There's at least 1 autocannon with the Havocs. Otherwise, in Shadowspear
Gael Knight wrote: Getting a bit sick of GW using the same Codex cover over and over again.
It's pathetic.
No, it's smart business. Why spend money on new art that 96% of those people who will buy the army do not care about in any capacity. I couldn't even tell you what the cover of any of my codexes has on it, I've never given it a second thought.
I wonder if the Master of Execution(s) gets a spare head. The art carts feature a picture of him, where it appears like he has a skull showing and isn't wearing the leather mask depicted on the model:
None of the new models, so far has been demonstrated with a Emperor's children or world eaters colour scheme this gives me the impression they are only be included in this codex as a temporary thing, until GW gets around to giving them there own codex.
Rydria wrote: None of the new models, so far has been demonstrated with a Emperor's children or world eaters colour scheme this gives me the impression they are only be included in this codex as a temporary thing, until GW gets around to giving them there own codex.
Don't get too excited. EC and WE schemes are often left off of generic CSM boxes. The previous CSM box didn't have any and the Termie box only had CS and BL
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: The Shadowspear CSM are more of an ETB kit, right? If so I imagine they'll be released separately down the road.
I don't see how. The csm kit is going to be released now and it doesn't seem to have an autocannon. They're not going to re-release those.
The only possibility would be havocs but then I find it weird they wouldn't show it in any of the pics as part of a havoc squad.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Is there enough bolters if you assume that 2 guys have special/heavy weapons and the champion has a combi? Same for chainswords.
Yes...? I mean, if you want to build every squad as fully kitted out with every upgrade possible.
But honestly, I've been playing 40k since first edition and have almost never done that with even one or two squads. More plain bodies is generally more cost effective than dropping stuff on the sarge.
Gael Knight wrote: Getting a bit sick of GW using the same Codex cover over and over again.
It's pathetic.
No, it's smart business. Why spend money on new art that 96% of those people who will buy the army do not care about in any capacity. I couldn't even tell you what the cover of any of my codexes has on it, I've never given it a second thought.
Eh. The specific art never mattered to me, but I did like being able to identify different editions of a codex at a glance. Since GW has dropped putting <Xth> edition on books at all, its become more confusing, especially in indie stores that don't necessarily get rid of older versions of books (which is annoyingly common around here- I've noticed it a few times in different stores.
Okay, that is fair. They really should print the edition on the books, I will give you that.
Gael Knight wrote: Getting a bit sick of GW using the same Codex cover over and over again.
It's pathetic.
No, it's smart business. Why spend money on new art that 96% of those people who will buy the army do not care about in any capacity. I couldn't even tell you what the cover of any of my codexes has on it, I've never given it a second thought.
Good for you?
It's literally a non-issue that has zero effect on the game?
I think sales for CSM is going to be through the roof. I know I will be spending more on CSMths year than I have for years. And if others are like me, sales are going to be good. If sales for CSM are so good, it will be very tempting for GW to come out with a World eaters codex and such.
Rydria wrote: None of the new models, so far has been demonstrated with a Emperor's children or world eaters colour scheme this gives me the impression they are only be included in this codex as a temporary thing, until GW gets around to giving them there own codex.
Don't get too excited. EC and WE schemes are often left off of generic CSM boxes. The previous CSM box didn't have any and the Termie box only had CS and BL
-
I mean they have been showing off preview images of all the new models on warhammer community, not a single new model has been painted in either of those legions colours, I'm aware box art normally does omit the cult legions.
Rydria wrote: None of the new models, so far has been demonstrated with a Emperor's children or world eaters colour scheme this gives me the impression they are only be included in this codex as a temporary thing, until GW gets around to giving them there own codex.
Don't get too excited. EC and WE schemes are often left off of generic CSM boxes. The previous CSM box didn't have any and the Termie box only had CS and BL
-
I mean they have been showing off preview images of all the new models on warhammer community, not a single new model has been painted in either of those legions colours, I'm aware box art normally does omit the cult legions.
Dakka Flakka Flame wrote: The Shadowspear CSM are more of an ETB kit, right? If so I imagine they'll be released separately down the road.
I don't see how. The csm kit is going to be released now and it doesn't seem to have an autocannon. They're not going to re-release those.
The only possibility would be havocs but then I find it weird they wouldn't show it in any of the pics as part of a havoc squad.
I assumed for awhile it was going to be in the Havoc box. But the fact we haven't actually seen a Havoc holding a Autocannon yet I'm starting to get worried also.
Dread Master wrote: Lord Executioner is the weakest model of the release imo. Starting to doubt we are going to see updated Berzerkers.... possibly ever. Hope I’m wrong.
Why would they do new berzerkers for the main csm dex when they can release a separate world eaters book later with other kits as well?
Click on Latro_'s name in the quote box and it will take you to the original post.
Bottom right of the sprues.
Eldenfirefly wrote: I think sales for CSM is going to be through the roof. I know I will be spending more on CSMths year than I have for years. And if others are like me, sales are going to be good. If sales for CSM are so good, it will be very tempting for GW to come out with a World eaters codex and such.
I might buy the disciples and MAAAYYBE the Lord Executioner. The rest... eh. If someday an EC or WE book happens, I might care enough to buy some of the vanilla stuff, like havocs, if whichever of those legions doesn't end up with better gun options. [Quite likely they won't because GW is bizarrely shortsighted and narrow of vision in regards to what a chaos god can have (in complete opposition to the actual fluff), but just in case]. And thats if one of those actually tickle my fancy.
This thread kinda moves fast sometimes and I didn't realize it was already posted. Dose one of the sprues get repeated? Because I noticed their only seems top be 3 bodies?
I wonder if we will get a real box of oblits eventually. that's why I hate these easy to build box. some of the minis never get real kits and we're stuck with using the same duplicate models over and over again
streetsamurai wrote: I wonder if we will get a real box of oblits eventually. that's why I hate these easy to build box. some of the minis never get real kits and we're stuck with using the same duplicate models over and over again
I don't think the Oblits are easy-to-build, are they?
Keep in mind several other kits are not, but still pretty close to monopose, The beast of nurgle and the fleshhounds both come to mind. The former can swap an arm out, and has a couple headswap options but that's it. The hounds are always the same five dogs.
Talking to some guys at my GW store they seemed doubtful that we'd get a separate Oblits kit. They might come out as their own 'Easy to Build' kit like the Myphitic Blight Hauler.
I'd be super upset if that was the case. They're such big models that after you get your second box of Shadowspear they're going to look very same-y... Might go back to converting Terminators instead if that's the case, tbh. :/
But, we're just now getting the first wave, GW hasn't really shown off everything yet, and we still have two more days for them to do the Emperor's Children and Alpha Legion focuses.
Black Legion teased the Terminators
Word Bearers showed off the Dark Apostle
World Eaters revealed the Master of Executions
It's possible that more is coming. They were trying to build hype for the Emperor's Children focus in particular in other articles for some reason, so we'll see what happens.
streetsamurai wrote: I wonder if we will get a real box of oblits eventually. that's why I hate these easy to build box. some of the minis never get real kits and we're stuck with using the same duplicate models over and over again
Monopose =\= Easy to Build. The fact that I needed a vice-like grip to build one JUST NOW is proof of that.
That said, it WOULD be nice to see a multi-part kit.
streetsamurai wrote: I wonder if we will get a real box of oblits eventually. that's why I hate these easy to build box. some of the minis never get real kits and we're stuck with using the same duplicate models over and over again
Mutilators have always been "close combat oblits" since they were introduced. If they are making Plastic Oblits I see no reason GW would not to make it a duel kit with Mutilators. So I don't see them going the Easy to build route.
Well. GW priceing is bracketed to you usually can figure it out but looking at similar things that are the same price bracket in NZ dollars and then looking up what they are in you local currency.
The nz price for CSM is $115 and the NZ price for SM tacticals are $75. Primaris Intercessors are $115.
Abadon is $124 and Roboute Guilliman is $124
Noctilith Crown is $99 and Sector Mechanicus Alchomite Stack/Ferratonic Furnace are $99.
Mono-Pose HQ, 10 Troops, and a "big" thing.
OR
Big HQ, 10 Troops, and a small Elite unit.
I couldn't see them putting in the multipart Terminator Lord. The new master of executions feels like it makes more sense for a start collecting. They favour Heros you may take in multiples in the Start Collectings over a "centerpiece" hero.
Of note don't they usely wait like 6+ months before releasing a Start Collecting for a updated army?
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Are we expecting any of the youtube reviewers to have a preview video soon? Or do those come in a week right before the release?
The Youtubers usually get their videos up the day it goes on pre-order, so tomorrow.
I would expect Shadowspear to be discontinued eventually and the contents to be split into Start Collecting Primaris Scouts and Start Collecting Chaos Bois. Get rid of 1-2 primaris heroes and swap floating Chaos Sorcerer with Chaos Lord from Blackstone Fortress.
1 squad of CSMs.
1 Dark Apostle
1 squad of Chaos Terminators
this is a pretty solid set up, one that will show off the new kits, and really gives a solid foundation to a CSM list.
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jullevi wrote: I would expect Shadowspear to be discontinued eventually and the contents to be split into Start Collecting Primaris Scouts and Start Collecting Chaos Bois. Get rid of 1-2 primaris heroes and swap floating Chaos Sorcerer with Chaos Lord from Blackstone Fortress.
I dunno, that'd be a pretty big starter set. more likely you'd see them use the stuff from "Know no fear" which would be 5 intercessors, 3 inceptors, 1 gravis captain, and then whatever the death guard have in it
1 squad of CSMs.
1 Dark Apostle
1 squad of Chaos Terminators
this is a pretty solid set up, one that will show off the new kits, and really gives a solid foundation to a CSM list.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jullevi wrote: I would expect Shadowspear to be discontinued eventually and the contents to be split into Start Collecting Primaris Scouts and Start Collecting Chaos Bois. Get rid of 1-2 primaris heroes and swap floating Chaos Sorcerer with Chaos Lord from Blackstone Fortress.
I dunno, that'd be a pretty big starter set. more likely you'd see them use the stuff from "Know no fear" which would be 5 intercessors, 3 inceptors, 1 gravis captain, and then whatever the death guard have in it
I doubt a squad of terminators and the new csm, that doesnt boost anythings sales.
My guess is a squad of csm, a helbrute, and the lord from blackstone fortress.
Chaos stuff is brilliant, my main 40k army without doubt is my crimson fists and first and foremost want to get the vanguard marines added to them even though they won't see much use yet.
The chaos stuff in shadow spear will definitely be the start of my alternate army though, not going to go crazy but will gradually build them up. Think I'll pick up vigilus next month as my hobby buy and leave the rest for now as I just spent 90 quid on shadow spear and some inceptors for my CF!
1 squad of CSMs.
1 Dark Apostle
1 squad of Chaos Terminators
this is a pretty solid set up, one that will show off the new kits, and really gives a solid foundation to a CSM list.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jullevi wrote: I would expect Shadowspear to be discontinued eventually and the contents to be split into Start Collecting Primaris Scouts and Start Collecting Chaos Bois. Get rid of 1-2 primaris heroes and swap floating Chaos Sorcerer with Chaos Lord from Blackstone Fortress.
I dunno, that'd be a pretty big starter set. more likely you'd see them use the stuff from "Know no fear" which would be 5 intercessors, 3 inceptors, 1 gravis captain, and then whatever the death guard have in it
A new getting started with that list of models would be awesome; most of the new stuff I want with a heavy discount. Which is why it’s unlikely to happen, at least for 6-months or so; they’re not going to want to undercut sales of the new kits like that.
BigBrown wrote: BoLS has a quick review of the new codex out.
The Lord Discordant T6 W12 Save2+/5++
Pretty fragile for a guy with a huge target on his back.
Cultist lose Legion traits but still cost 5pts. Obliterators retain their old point cost from the previous codex (wonder if that´s gonna be FAQd?).
So cultists are now inferior in everything torwards your run of the mill human troops.
The price decides on the lord discordant so ehhh,
Oblits, the new ones at the same price as the old ones? Now that will lead to some salt spilled, i'd imagine that to be a typo though considering shadowspear.
It depends on the price, but I actually like the buffs compared to most fortifications. Plant it in your deployment next to some terrain and put, say, a squad of Havocs next to it in cover, and they're 2+/5++ (also Noise Marines). Not terrible at all. And from turn 2 it's even possible to get some much needed 5++ on Predators or shooty Helbrutes.
And given that it says 'Chaos psykers', chuck a detachment of Thousand Son psykers next to it, and they can blast away re-rolling psychic tests from a good distance.
The more I write this the more I like it. If it's 75pts I will take one. 100 may be pushing it.
Lord Discordant has a decent statline... for a heavy support model. Unless his offensive stats are comparative to a daemon prince and you can realistically run multiples I don't think he's going to get used.
One interesting note is that the rules for specific Renegade Chapters isn't on the page with the other legion traits in the codex. It could be that it's shuffled off to wherever they put the specialist detachments or it could be that that information is only in the Vigilus book... Wouldn't be too happy about that.
5 havocs, 4 dakka guns for 32 shots. Put them in rhino for DZ safety (either share with a character you want upfield, maybe some greater possessed or 5 more havocs) and dump them out midfield, and let them go nuts, use Endless if you want 64 shots
One youtube review pointed out flawless hosts stuff. On top of death to false emperor their trait is on a roll of a 6 against anyone you generate an extra attack (so 2 in total vs imperium) and they have a warlord trait that makes that into 3 attacks per 6 (so 4 generated on each 6+ vs imperium) stick that on a buffed up daemon prince with prescience, priests prayer for +1 to wound rolls and a greater possessed nearby and watch him become a blender.
It's on the Havoc too, so no minus to shoot when moving. Really significant unit. 24" Heavy 8 S5 -1 D1...
he you just need to buy 4 boxes to get that squad setup
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Latro_ wrote: so cultists dont gain a legion trait but you can still stick strats on them no?
hopefully, no idea though
no dude you buy 4 of the new noise marine model and proxy it (lets face it ye puttin MoS on them anyway for double tap)
chaos version of slayer! XD 64 shots walking towards you
Arachnofiend wrote: Lord Discordant has a decent statline... for a heavy support model. Unless his offensive stats are comparative to a daemon prince and you can realistically run multiples I don't think he's going to get used.
The Lord Discordant hits like a truck in melee; it seems like he's supposed to push up with Maulerfiends and Venomcrawlers rather than sit back and babysit a daemon engine gunline. He makes 12 attacks on his top bracket as all of his weapons (except his Chainglaive) make bonus attacks in the same manner as Chainswords;
Weapon Skill 2+
4 Strength 6 AP-2 Damage 2 attacks, increasing to Strength 8 on the charge (Impaler Chainglaive)
2 Strength 4 AP-0 Damage 1 attacks (Mechatendrils)
5 Strength 7 AP-2 Damage D3 attacks (Bladed limbs and tail)
1 Strength 8 AP-4 Damage D3 attack that inflicts D3 mortal wounds on a Vehicle as long as the wound roll for the attack is successful when targeting a Vehicle (Techno-virus Injector)
Give him some form of re-rolls to-hit or wound, or slap on Veterans of the Long War, and he'll murder entire squads or your average vehicle pretty easily. He has a 12" move too but no Fly.
Also of note that the reviewers have failed to mention so far, Havocs are Toughness 5.
BigBrown wrote: BoLS has a quick review of the new codex out.
The Lord Discordant T6 W12 Save2+/5++
Pretty fragile for a guy with a huge target on his back.
Cultist lose Legion traits but still cost 5pts. Obliterators retain their old point cost from the previous codex (wonder if that´s gonna be FAQd?).
12W and 9PL? Ouch. wonder what his points cost is going to be... on the other hand, it's pretty easy to get a 2+/4++/5+++ on him so he's tougher than he initially looks.
And yeah, expect Oblit cost to be FAQ'd. Looks like they accidentally put the oldblit point cost in there.
I'm really pleased with the Havocs, 4 Rotor Cannon dudes are going to be an excellent horde/ screen clearer.
Or just buy 1 pack of rotor cannons, 4 for the havocs, 1 for marine squads
looking at points in book they are 20 points for the dakka, havocs are 14 points each, so you are looking at 70 base +80= atleast 150 depending on what you stick on the leader
Or just buy 1 pack of rotor cannons, 4 for the havocs, 1 for marine squads
looking at points in book they are 20 points for the dakka, havocs are 14 points each, so you are looking at 70 base +80= atleast 150 depending on what you stick on the leader
I find it pretty amusing how GW just keep looking for ways to make Cultists worse. Has there ever been a unit nerfed on three separate occasions within a year?
First they changed Tide of Traitors to be one use only. Then they upped the cost of Cultists by 25%. Now they remove the legion trait.
Yeah Cultists were good but I feel like any one of these changes would have been enough.
