He can't kick you out. He's only all powerful on their facebook page and their forums. You simply call it like you see it when he gives you a stock copypasta answer at the q&a or at the booth. I'm not trying to encourage you to turn the screws on him till he squeals literally (that's John's specialty!) but rather figuratively.
Oh sorry I was not clear: I am afraid "I" will do something to get me kicked out.
Short and sweet, extended conversation may lead to indignant cusswords and me commenting on Kevin's lineage.
I have over 50 suppliers that do better than these clowns and 3 I got blacklisted that make PB STILL look bad.
I sort out problems at my work and PB is a whole lot of systemic failure with top level management in desperate need of an exit strategy.
I will have to grit my teeth harder if I meet NMI.
He will probably be still looking for that ban button.
warboss wrote: Looks like the weekly update hit early with the usual cut and paste "new possibilities" and drivethrurpg gak that they've been peddling for the past year generally and exactly for the past month. They did mention the plans for both cons. Any dakkites going to either Anime North or the Socal convention? For the former, please firmly but politely (I know... you're Canadian... it's a redundant request!) badger our favorite snake oil salemen about his long delinquent and outstanding debts on camera at the likely palladium Q&A? The more the merrier!
I'm going to the SoCal convention. I don't think anyone from PB is going to be there. It's a fan that runs the RRT games at Strategicon.
warboss wrote: Looks like the weekly update hit early with the usual cut and paste "new possibilities" and drivethrurpg gak that they've been peddling for the past year generally and exactly for the past month.
In addition to the nothingburger that is an RRT "Update" (<- That word, I don't think it means what Kevin thinks it means), a delay "at the printers" has pushed back the first book Heroes of Humanity (due March, as of Feb 18th) that PB has produced this year, to two weeks before the "first six months of 2016". They were supposed to release eight. I wonder how many they "expect" to do for the second half of the year.
Delay at the printers always means they didn't recieve the print files on time. 20 years dealing with printers I have never had a delay that was caused by the printers.
I am going to anime north. The MOST i might do is walk past the booth a couple of times abd MAYBE the panel...and thats just pass along how pathetic it may be to people here.
At this pount i couldn't give two craps abput rrt or palladium as a company anymore.
Upside - get to go to anime north AND likely meet Tal.
jaymz wrote: I am going to anime north. The MOST i might do is walk past the booth a couple of times abd MAYBE the panel...and thats just pass along how pathetic it may be to people here.
At this pount i couldn't give two craps abput rrt or palladium as a company anymore.
Upside - get to go to anime north AND likely meet Tal.
Why not harass Kevin? Ask him directly when the heck is he going to do *something real* about wave 2?
PLEASE. If I were not in Chile, I would do it myself!
jaymz wrote: I am going to anime north. The MOST i might do is walk past the booth a couple of times abd MAYBE the panel...and thats just pass along how pathetic it may be to people here.
At this pount i couldn't give two craps abput rrt or palladium as a company anymore.
Upside - get to go to anime north AND likely meet Tal.
Why not harass Kevin? Ask him directly when the heck is he going to do *something real* about wave 2?
PLEASE. If I were not in Chile, I would do it myself!
I feel I am as rabid as the next guy.
Problem is, after meeting him the last time at Anime North I know it would be utterly pointless.
The man starts off with the "Nice to meet you."
He expects some fan gushing or praise.
When he does not get that, his smile gets cloudy and he gives you this look "So what do you want then."
Then he quotes whatever was last written on his "updates" and pulls an "I-gotta-go-bye!!!!".
Long winded way of saying it is not worth it and there is so much more worth-it at the convention.
I have been to a few different types of conventions and Anime North is the happiest, nicest group of people you would have the pleasure of meeting.
Best thing I did is keep my kids informed of the various comics out there, games and anime.
The cosplay people were ecstatic when my kids knew who they were dressed up as, got many pictures of them goofing around with my kids.
We just have to get out before the later evening more edgy costumes are allowed to enter.
Kevin however... let's just say he will not meet my kids.
warboss wrote: Looks like the weekly update hit early with the usual cut and paste "new possibilities" and drivethrurpg gak that they've been peddling for the past year generally and exactly for the past month.
In addition to the nothingburger that is an RRT "Update" (<- That word, I don't think it means what Kevin thinks it means), a delay "at the printers" has pushed back the first book Heroes of Humanity (due March, as of Feb 18th) that PB has produced this year, to two weeks before the "first six months of 2016". They were supposed to release eight. I wonder how many they "expect" to do for the second half of the year.
What's hilarious is that the Player's guide for SW Rifts has been already announced it will be delayed too.
That one I can kind of give a pass on, since they listened to Backer requests and set a stretch goal to bump up the page count considerably to include things that were only going to be PDFs otherwise.
I think that much like RRT, the 8k goal was a joke lowball so they could proclaim 'omg we funded in 42 seconds and are at a kajillion percent of what we asked for!', but that's not an uncommon thing with KS these days.
Not that I backed SWR. Decided in the end to pull my $1. The value of possibly saying 'I told you so' if/when it becomes a mess wasn't worth being lumped in with PB being able to say 'omg look at that backer count!'
Even if my participation (as it were) was dragging the average down a few pennies.
I do not expect Savage Worlds Rifts to have many issues for the deliverables they promised.
I only expect any future material is suspect: this may be a one-shot deal and then I expect Kevin to get jealous of the "middle man".
@Forar: yeah, some backer was saying to measure the "success" of a kickstarter is what percentage you exceed your goal. It does not take much thought to leverage that value to what you want.
I would say a more accurate measure is backer to money pledged amount like our $1,442,312 / 5,342 backers = $270 average pledge per backer.
Savage Worlds Rifts:$438,076 / 4,238 backers = $103 average per backer.
Then I heard words that this is "hard" with just books. I am sure little plastic models are easier.
The people there were not terribly happy with me when I said they were not real fans and were cheaping-out unlike us RRT backers...
Just got them thinking in a roundabout way they are throwing money indirectly to the company that gave the shaft to "superfans" who spent more than they did.
I think the TRUE measure of a KS success is the pure profit (amount of money received - amount spent).
I am sure Palladium's is respectable.
There I go with the negative waves. I may have to change my handle to "Moriarty".
Talizvar wrote: I feel I am as rabid as the next guy. Problem is, after meeting him the last time at Anime North I know it would be utterly pointless.
You're a happy playful puppy dog compared to some of the "rabid...next guys" in this thread. Everything we do (including generating 100's of pages of commentary on dakka) is in essence pointless in the long run to the only metric that matters (KS reward fulfillment). I suppose it's that kind of apathy that he's counting on but I understand that you've got better more positive things to do with the family at such an event. I can see not prioritizing the 2 minutes no strings attached to take Kevin to task on camera but it would be nice if just one person did it once if they were going to a con anyways. A video of him scurrying away Kanye West style with the hand blocking the camera shouting no comment to a reporter repeatedly politely asking "but I just want to know when I'll get my 2013 kickstarter rewards?" would be a youtube video for the ages.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those interested, there is a kickstarter going on with some sort of connection with DP9 that looks to potentially have some nice 10mm terrain. The $75 buy in for each set of terrain seems a bit too good to be true and not sustainable at retail but here's the link regardless. Caveat Emptor.
It's obviously not 6mm but those factory and industrial buildings would barely be big enough to put out keychains at an industrial scale so that set might actually fit the scale of Robo/Battle-tech more than DZC and HG. The residential stuff though might be a no-go for scale purists.
If this con is like the last....kevin is not at the booth much. Considering he is actually running rpgs this time....I have no interest having a "vendor" file a complaint about my "harassing" him.
Remember this is the same guy who sued a company because they were calling theor pc game "Rift". He IS that petty.
That means you moght jave wayne or chuck. Chuck, nice enough guy but tows the party line and thats it. Wayne, a lying sack of crap who can eat a bag of phallic objects as far as I am concerned.
warboss wrote: Looks like the weekly update hit early with the usual cut and paste "new possibilities" and drivethrurpg gak that they've been peddling for the past year generally and exactly for the past month.
In addition to the nothingburger that is an RRT "Update" (<- That word, I don't think it means what Kevin thinks it means), a delay "at the printers" has pushed back the first book Heroes of Humanity (due March, as of Feb 18th) that PB has produced this year, to two weeks before the "first six months of 2016". They were supposed to release eight. I wonder how many they "expect" to do for the second half of the year.
What's hilarious is that the Player's guide for SW Rifts has been already announced it will be delayed too.
but I thought they were 98% done ? and this from PEG ?
warboss wrote: Looks like the weekly update hit early with the usual cut and paste "new possibilities" and drivethrurpg gak that they've been peddling for the past year generally and exactly for the past month.
In addition to the nothingburger that is an RRT "Update" (<- That word, I don't think it means what Kevin thinks it means), a delay "at the printers" has pushed back the first book Heroes of Humanity (due March, as of Feb 18th) that PB has produced this year, to two weeks before the "first six months of 2016". They were supposed to release eight. I wonder how many they "expect" to do for the second half of the year.
What's hilarious is that the Player's guide for SW Rifts has been already announced it will be delayed too.
but I thought they were 98% done ? and this from PEG ?
Yep, my comment was somewhat in jest, but they did delay delivery by 3 weeks because they are adding the bonus race stretch goals to the PDF/printed book (3 weeks to insert some already formatted pages, renumber and maybe adjust the table of contents? Sounds a little fishy to me the more I think about it). I have more faith in PEG actually meeting their deadline, but it is like the same slippery slope PB uses all the time. Anyway, I'd bust a gut laughing if we were to see rolling delivery date delays from that KS.
If they have to commission the art, have the artist do it, approve it themselves, and get it approved by the ever timely Palladium,.... I think three weeks is very reasonable.
warboss wrote: If they have to commission the art, have the artist do it, approve it themselves, and get it approved by the ever timely Palladium,.... I think three weeks is very reasonable.
well if those 3 weeks stretch into 3 months wonder how things will go?
JohnHwangDD wrote: First timer KS doing producing physical goods? It'll be fine.
No, I'm not pledging.
Oh just live a little, what could happen?
Do not let RRT ruin your pledge habits.
The futuristic terrain is looking interesting.
I could end up losing a substantial portion of my annual hobby budget. That would be a real tragedy in every sense of the word.
RRT has nothing to do with this particular decision.
warboss wrote: If they have to commission the art, have the artist do it, approve it themselves, and get it approved by the ever timely Palladium,.... I think three weeks is very reasonable.
Hmmr... I apparently conflated the stretch races with the preview PDFs they released, so I thought they already had all the art & formatting done and just needed to insert it into the main document. If they don't already have those add-ons built behind the scenes I think you're right - especially with the art (and approval) taking the longest.
warboss wrote: If they have to commission the art, have the artist do it, approve it themselves, and get it approved by the ever timely Palladium,.... I think three weeks is very reasonable.
Hmmr... I apparently conflated the stretch races with the preview PDFs they released, so I thought they already had all the art & formatting done and just needed to insert it into the main document. If they don't already have those add-ons built behind the scenes I think you're right - especially with the art (and approval) taking the longest.
Please note that I'm not speaking from any position of certainty as to what they have or will have to do as I didn't follow the rpg kickstarter updates after the first day. It's just my own thoughts as to what adding races with art to an rpg book entails. Even if they had the art, they may have to come up with both filler text and art if what they have isn't a multiple of 4/8/16 pages due to how printing and binding works.
I understand, but I'd also made an error in thinking on my part.
However, if adding the pages doesn't come up to 4/8/16 multiple, how hard could it be for PB to fill that dead space with ads for their "upcoming" books?
Swabby wrote: Did anyone catch this use of SNAFU in the weekly update?
"Apparently there was a SNAFU at the printer that has delayed CS Heroes of Humanity™.
Is this Kev admitting that fracked up timelines are the norm for his product, or an innocent misuse of a sarcasm laden acronym?
Maybe he has become more aware of his "normal situation"?
I do agree it is a real showstopper at the printer when they do not receive the layout for printing.
It just is never, never, never his fault on anything.
Anyone who does not make mistakes is either not doing anything or is in denial... I have so little evidence of any recent work on his part to know which it is.
Stormonu wrote: I understand, but I'd also made an error in thinking on my part.
However, if adding the pages doesn't come up to 4/8/16 multiple, how hard could it be for PB to fill that dead space with ads for their "upcoming" books?
Perhaps this other company has standards and a moral compass unlike Palladium? I do agree though that it would be easier to just fill the extra pages with something like a great new Rifts app Palladium commisioned exclusively for Palm Pilots and Apple Newtons coming out later this year.
warboss wrote: I do agree though that it would be easier to just fill the extra pages with something like a great new Rifts app Palladium commisioned exclusively for Palm Pilots and Apple Newtons coming out later this year.
Awesome! I actually DO have the first Palm Pilot that came out... somewhere... in all that stuff I moved. Nevermind.
I can still write in "graffiti".
I love interfaces you have to adapt to rather than them being user friendly... rather reflective of PB!
Stormonu wrote: I understand, but I'd also made an error in thinking on my part.
However, if adding the pages doesn't come up to 4/8/16 multiple, how hard could it be for PB to fill that dead space with ads for their "upcoming" books?
Perhaps this other company has standards and a moral compass unlike Palladium?
If they had a moral compass they wouldn't have anything to do with PB in the first place...
warboss wrote: I do agree though that it would be easier to just fill the extra pages with something like a great new Rifts app Palladium commisioned exclusively for Palm Pilots and Apple Newtons coming out later this year.
Woot! My palm tugsten is sitting at my desk. I could send an SASE to have them send it to me on a reused AOL 7 CD-ROM!
Stormonu wrote: If they had a moral compass they wouldn't have anything to do with PB in the first place...
I am humbled by your clearly superior snark.
Woot! My palm tugsten is sitting at my desk. I could send an SASE to have them send it to me on a reused AOL 7 CD-ROM!
You think Palladium is made out of money, rich boy??? In order to ensure the greatest compatibility with the Newton, the app will only function up to the Palm V. Besides, we all know 160x160 monochrome is what the cool kids use... not your hidef color screen! Palladium applies the same rigid standards to their electronic applications as they do to their internal RPG artwork.
Stormonu wrote: If they had a moral compass they wouldn't have anything to do with PB in the first place...
I am humbled by your clearly superior snark.
Woot! My palm tugsten is sitting at my desk. I could send an SASE to have them send it to me on a reused AOL 7 CD-ROM!
You think Palladium is made out of money, rich boy??? In order to ensure the greatest compatibility with the Newton, the app will only function up to the Palm V. Besides, we all know 160x160 monochrome is what the cool kids use... not your hidef color screen! Palladium applies the same rigid standards to their electronic applications as they do to their internal RPG artwork.
Talizvar wrote: Anyone who does not make mistakes is either not doing anything or is in denial... I have so little evidence of any recent work on his part to know which it is.
Clue: If you said to Kev that he'd spent two years doing nothing, he'd deny it!
And Occam's Razor says that the obvious answer is the correct one most of the time. If only we could get public opinion of RRT low enough, he'd probably deny that it was anything to do with PB. We could then get him to disappear up his own Schwarzschild radius by suing his own company for copyright infringement.
Swabby wrote: Did anyone catch this use of SNAFU in the weekly update?
"Apparently there was a SNAFU at the printer that has delayed CS Heroes of Humanity™.
Is this Kev admitting that fracked up timelines are the norm for his product, or an innocent misuse of a sarcasm laden acronym?
...I thought they printed their books in-house?
No they write in house, and I use the term write loosely as 75% of what they write is stats which I can do, and have done, in my sleep. My personal wiki is proof of that LOL
They use a printing company to actually produce the hard copies of the books.
Plus writing "in-house" can be used loosely since most of their stable of writers are contract.
Funny, the majority of public opinion on RRT appears to be "meh".
Kevin would look at it as a win since everyone is "happy".
Especially when a "vocal minority's" views and opinions can be discounted.
Over 3 years late on delivery but haterz are gonna hate no matter what you do.
So! Let's talk about other Kickstarter, and fulfillments.
Some time ago (middle of march, really) I got into a KS for a new edition of a game. You might have heard about it, a little game called 7th Sea. It got big, for an RPG. As big as RRT, actually. The estimated delivery date for the core book (it unlocked a whole lot of additional books) was for october.
I just got the pdf today. The book will be delivered before Gen Con. And funnily enough, the company doesn't have 3 decades of experience, either!
That's an impressive total for what at its core amounts to an RPG book (although it was always more than that in reality). I don't remember that title being all that popular back in the 90's and early 00's and I was going to conventions alot at that time. I'm a bit surprised that it garnered so much but congrats to them and to their fans who will soon be receiving what they were promised.
Yeah, I wish I'd known about the 7th sea kickstarter before it started, I would like to have picked up the revised core rulebook (unfortunately, my funds are tapped out now). I had plenty of fun with the original game, and had picked up most of the supplements (I think I'm missing one or two secret societies). Good on them for being on top of their kickstarter!
I may be wrong, but the group that did 7th sea also did Legends of the 5 Rings too? Both also had a card game that was fairly popular for the time, sadly the 7th sea card game didn't survive. What was really interesting was that both RPG lines had an evolving timeline that was based on the player's action - mostly the card game, as I recall. For example, the Montaige Revolution was one of those things you could see being set up when the game was introduced, and it was interesting to get a campaign based on Theah's version of the French Revolution.
Albertorius wrote: Some time ago (middle of march, really) I got into a KS for a new edition of a game. You might have heard about it, a little game called 7th Sea. It got big, for an RPG. As big as RRT, actually. The estimated delivery date for the core book (it unlocked a whole lot of additional books) was for october.
I just got the pdf today. The book will be delivered before Gen Con. And funnily enough, the company doesn't have 3 decades of experience, either!
Bbbbuttt!
It is "just" an RPG... printers and pdf's how hard can it be?
"Perfect" little plastic miniatures require strange things like 3D models, splitting, die design and die cutting which is being 'handled" as we speak.
By whom, I am unsure if PB knows.
Getting a new rulebook and some 12 source books would take Palladium some 13 years to produce! (they can only make one book of each type in a year you know!).
It hardly seems fair to compare.
(All kidding aside, that is a cool RPG, I played "James Bond" a similar mechanic game and it too made use of "hero points" which got you into the style as well as substance of role play.)
The die design and cutting are being done by the mould bunnies they keep behind the fridge, Kev's doing fine as he miss-heard and is currently gathering all the spitting the backers are doing, and believes all models are 3D, after all, if it's small and you can touch it, it must be a model, right?
Off home for 3 days. It's a 4 hour journey, and I won't have internet whilst I am there, but can't wait!
Stormonu wrote:I may be wrong, but the group that did 7th sea also did Legends of the 5 Rings too? Both also had a card game that was fairly popular for the time, sadly the 7th sea card game didn't survive. What was really interesting was that both RPG lines had an evolving timeline that was based on the player's action - mostly the card game, as I recall. For example, the Montaige Revolution was one of those things you could see being set up when the game was introduced, and it was interesting to get a campaign based on Theah's version of the French Revolution.
Originally both were developed by AEG, yes, and had CCGs with evolving timelines. Having that evolving timeline has its perks and its drawbacks.
Talizvar wrote:Bbbbuttt!
It is "just" an RPG... printers and pdf's how hard can it be?
Dunno. Ask Palladium regarding their Norther Gun "kickstarters"? Or better yet, the Mechanoids book .
(All kidding aside, that is a cool RPG, I played "James Bond" a similar mechanic game and it too made use of "hero points" which got you into the style as well as substance of role play.)
Well, the system is quite different from the one from 1st edition, so time will tell. The setting update so far looks good.
So....anime north today. Busiest day of the con. Almost no one at the booth all afternoon. My friend rob, and fellow backer, was doing rrt demos. He did 5 20 minutes demos by 530pm. 2 with me, because he is my friend and i felt bad. The 1st one was at 1pm. 1st one for the day.
Kevin was only around to do his rpg event. Apparently he did a panel on mecha/creature creation which i literally out loud about when i saw it listed.
Otherwise not at the booth. And for someone who busted wing bothers him so much he hardly wore the sling whenever i saw him which i then generally walked the other way.
Wayne i stayed away from lest i start verbally slapping him. Chuck i talked too quite a bit. Nice guy. I feel sorry him honestly.
jaymz wrote: So....anime north today. Busiest day of the con. Almost no one at the booth all afternoon. My friend rob, and fellow backer, was doing rrt demos. He did 5 20 minutes demos by 530pm. 2 with me, because he is my friend and i felt bad. The 1st one was at 1pm. 1st one for the day.
Kevin was only around to do his rpg event. Apparently he did a panel on mecha/creature creation which i literally out loud about when i saw it listed.
Otherwise not at the booth. And for someone who busted wing bothers him so much he hardly wore the sling whenever i saw him which i then generally walked the other way.
Wayne i stayed away from lest i start verbally slapping him. Chuck i talked too quite a bit. Nice guy. I feel sorry him honestly.
so as far as today goes, PB wasted their money going to the con
Automatically Appended Next Post: The worst part? I really do LIKE the game *sigh*
I liked the concept then saw what PB did to it.
Every first edition of a game has a WTF rule. The overall game was actually pretty good, blasts were a bit OP, buildings were too weak, and melee was overcomplicated, but other than that the game worked rather well. The game was better balanced than GW products, but not as well as Warmahordes, X-wing, or Battletech. Not saying these games are perfect, but they have a bit more internal balance than RRT did. The game, in itself, was good, the people in control of it.......
I finally broke down and got some of their GHQ pewter models and a bunch for Nesbet: we almost wiped them out on models.
I had an extended conversation with Kevin and Wayne.
Nothing all that enlightening really.
Some of the conversation showed Wayne had some supplier information and process knowledge for smaller batch molds so that was hopeful.
Best reading between the lines I can get is Wayne is trying to convince Kevin to go ahead with a cheaper, smaller run method that still gives good detail.
Kevin is not clear on the details and is most likely wanting to be sure it is the cheaper way to go and still be "good" models.
So it looks like quite a few suppliers are in quote limbo until a decision is made and to not tip their hand with other suppliers we are in "progress" limbo.
Resin-like material looks like it may be in our future.... maybe.
It is looking very much a long term PB project which would remain on hold until certain Kevin conditions are met..
I grabbed a card from a 3D printer they had advertising at their table that I could post later when I go through my stuff from the convention.
Probably the same guys who printed the last couple models we saw.
Wayne was kind enough to show me and let me hold the Armored Valkyrie: it IS an impressive.3d print, looked better in person.
Now if only they could get most of that detail into our hands.
They had the models in a case, did not even bother to display them.
Kevin is the "in-charge boss" and Wayne is nervous minion trying to cover all bases.
Kevin is very nice and speaks well, but yeah, he was there to lead role-play and Wayne looked rather lonely manning the booth by himself most of the time.
Jamz's friend was dressed as freaking Bretai, the costume was very good.
Painted models in a Zent. debris field in space was very nice to see, he did a great job.
Unfortunately I think the convention had much younger leaning: the bayblade booth was hopping while PB was a ghost-town other than the RPG game being held.
Thanks for the updates. I don't care what material its in after 3 years and counting at this point (barring the ridiculous mashed potato jokes of 2015) as long as it's an industry standard one (resin, pvc, hips, metal, etc). It won't help the community, the game, or palladium much at this point but will rather just serve to close the book on a 25 year dream of what could have been but wasn't.
Yeah, I'm with Warboss on this one. Not that I expect Kevin or anyone capable of moving things forward to read this (and it's even less likely they'd care, obviously), but I'd happily take a 10 or 20% hit in 'mouth watering detail' to have these things, y'know, actually exist.
Add in the fact that a materials change might even manage to... gasp... reduce the parts count, it could be a win/win/win.
Oh well, maybe we'll get some more info at Gencon. I mean, surely they'll manage to sort *something* out in the next 2 months? :-P
*NOTE THAT IS MASSIVE SARCASM THERE IS NO NEED TO ARGUE THAT POINT YES RICK I'M LOOKING AT YOU*
Forar wrote: Yeah, I'm with Warboss on this one. Not that I expect Kevin or anyone capable of moving things forward to read this (and it's even less likely they'd care, obviously), but I'd happily take a 10 or 20% hit in 'mouth watering detail' to have these things, y'know, actually exist.
Add in the fact that a materials change might even manage to... gasp... reduce the parts count, it could be a win/win/win.
Oh well, maybe we'll get some more info at Gencon. I mean, surely they'll manage to sort *something* out in the next 2 months? :-P
*NOTE THAT IS MASSIVE SARCASM THERE IS NO NEED TO ARGUE THAT POINT YES RICK I'M LOOKING AT YOU*
Yeah, agree with warboss. Frankly, making the rest of the models in hips will be throwing good money after bad, as they won't be selling nearly enough to justify the moulds, so they should be looking for an affordable option for smaller batches (that is, the backers and a leftover to sell at conventions and the like).
Were not for the fact that I shudder at the thought of mixing PB and Prodos in a KS endeavour, something like that new unicast process that Prodos have been toting lately would probably be the way to go...
JohnHwangDD wrote: Well, first, Prodos needs to prove that Unicast actually works the way they say it does for the volumes they talk about.
Prodos says a lot of things...
problem with this and making the minis in other materials is its a breach of contract, so either they have to get approval from every backer still owed product or the second they send out product made in a material other then ABS plastic they will be open up to breach of contract if backers so choose.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Well, first, Prodos needs to prove that Unicast actually works the way they say it does for the volumes they talk about.
Prodos says a lot of things...
problem with this and making the minis in other materials is its a breach of contract, so either they have to get approval from every backer still owed product or the second they send out product made in a material other then ABS plastic they will be open up to breach of contract if backers so choose.
Are they not in breach of contract already, technically? They also promised backer would get their stuff before anyone else, after all... I'd rather have a solution so as to be done with this farce and forget that PB even exists forever and ever than drag this out even more.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnHwangDD wrote: Well, first, Prodos needs to prove that Unicast actually works the way they say it does for the volumes they talk about.
Prodos says a lot of things...
True. That's why I said "something like that": relatively inexpensive smallish production run, kind of fast.
My friend ran 11 demos over 16ish hours sat/sun. He was dressed as a zentraedi officer. 10 of those demos were abput 20-25 minutes each and 1 that at most was an hour (did all demos but 1 with only a single core unit per side). He drove an hour each way both days to do all of this. Palladium themselves did no demos of their own and had none of the 3d prints of 2nd wave material on display.
His compensation for essentially doing every possible bit of PR for rrt for them was his pass into the con and a whopping 50% off the one metal mini he bought (14 bucks). He didnt need anything since he bought several already last Gencon.
...wow. Well, now I can say for certain that PB treats their MA worse than GW used to treat their redshirts during Games Day. And that's saying something. We at least got free lunchs (well, subs, but still).
My friend ran 11 demos over 16ish hours sat/sun. He was dressed as a zentraedi officer. 10 of those demos were abput 20-25 minutes each and 1 that at most was an hour (did all demos but 1 with only a single core unit per side). He drove an hour each way both days to do all of this. Palladium themselves did no demos of their own and had none of the 3d prints of 2nd wave material on display.
His compensation for essentially doing every possible bit of PR for rrt for them was his pass into the con and a whopping 50% off the one metal mini he bought (14 bucks). He didnt need anything since he bought several already last Gencon.
This is why their MA program fails.
You can't put an exact price on standing next to greatness, if only for a fleeting moment. That is the real compensation palladium lavishes on their indentured servants. Like the Oscars and this kickstarter, it's simply an honor to be allowed to volunteer your money/time and we're lucky to be graced with His occasional attention.
Thanks for the clarification Jamz, yeah, he did not have the metal head.
That was a hot day, thank goodness for air-conditioning: that outfit would have been hot.
I suspect they treat their MA people no different than their employees which would not say much.
The demo was the most interesting looking thing there.
Yup, all the 3D kickstarter prints were sitting in a box not on display (so why bring them?).
For some reason, they had "Wildcat Engineering Solutions" displayed at their booth with the printed storm trooper blaster and other stuff.
www.WildcatES.ca He might be a "fan friend" and may have provided the 3D prints we have seen (in his gallery he can be seen with a Palladium shirt on, main page "Networking for Nerds").
I have a new concern now: I had not seen a booth in all of Anime North that generated so little interest.
I saw a T-shirt vendor get more attention (why does this comparison seem unfair?)
JohnHwangDD wrote: Well, first, Prodos needs to prove that Unicast actually works the way they say it does for the volumes they talk about.
Prodos says a lot of things...
problem with this and making the minis in other materials is its a breach of contract, so either they have to get approval from every backer still owed product or the second they send out product made in a material other then ABS plastic they will be open up to breach of contract if backers so choose.
Are they not in breach of contract already, technically? They also promised backer would get their stuff before anyone else, after all... I'd rather have a solution so as to be done with this farce and forget that PB even exists forever and ever than drag this out even more.
yes in breach of contract with overseas buyers, but much harder for them to bring cause when over seas.
Talizvar wrote: Thanks for the clarification Jamz, yeah, he did not have the metal head.
That was a hot day, thank goodness for air-conditioning: that outfit would have been hot.
I suspect they treat their MA people no different than their employees which would not say much.
The demo was the most interesting looking thing there.
Yup, all the 3D kickstarter prints were sitting in a box not on display (so why bring them?).
For some reason, they had "Wildcat Engineering Solutions" displayed at their booth with the printed storm trooper blaster and other stuff.
www.WildcatES.ca He might be a "fan friend" and may have provided the 3D prints we have seen (in his gallery he can be seen with a Palladium shirt on, main page "Networking for Nerds").
I have a new concern now: I had not seen a booth in all of Anime North that generated so little interest.
I saw a T-shirt vendor get more attention (why does this comparison seem unfair?)
something tells me their advertising at PB may have been their fee for doing up the 3D models PB showed us, since PB was lacking on Cash.
Asterios wrote: something tells me their advertising at PB may have been their fee for doing up the 3D models PB showed us, since PB was lacking on Cash.
The thought crossed my mind as well (pretty sure I said as much...).
Wonder when a new "character model" of the "Armored Valk" will appear from GHQ?
The female suit in pewter is freaking heavy BTW, I will need to weigh that thing on it's own, I swear it is a half pound.
Soon, I will complete my Robotech, with or without PB.
The female suit in pewter is freaking heavy BTW, I will need to weigh that thing on it's own, I swear it is a half pound.
Soon, I will complete my Robotech, with or without PB.
Yup, she's got some curves for sure. It's why I put such a priority on trading my metals for the original resin variants instead... and then just having them sit in a box for the past year and a half. :( If you finish that last part, don't forget to post pics of the games. Some of us have to live vicariously through others in that regard.
Congrats! Is that the 1/4000 version? I saw that on amazon last year and considered getting it as a proxy for three ships in Halo fleet battles (each ARMD separately plus the SDF). I think my fav part of that kit was the teeny tiny little mecha, especially the MAC II!
jaymz wrote: My friend ran 11 demos over 16ish hours sat/sun. He was dressed as a zentraedi officer. 10 of those demos were abput 20-25 minutes each and 1 that at most was an hour (did all demos but 1 with only a single core unit per side). He drove an hour each way both days to do all of this. Palladium themselves did no demos of their own and had none of the 3d prints of 2nd wave material on display.
His compensation for essentially doing every possible bit of PR for rrt for them was his pass into the con and a whopping 50% off the one metal mini he bought (14 bucks). He didnt need anything since he bought several already last Gencon.
Your buddy dumped 20 hours of his time promoting Palladium's RTT? At the current $10/hr California minimum wage, he should have been compensated $200 + mileage. I'm sure his pass being comped by the con helped, but it's a hell of a thing to give up both Sat & Sun just to get Friday and/or Monday free..
Albertorius wrote: Yep, the 1/4000 by Hasegawa. The box is immense. Can't wait to get it assembled!
Too many projects going on now but THAT is a fine model.
Good luck, I have read good reviews on that guy.
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JohnHwangDD wrote: Your buddy dumped 20 hours of his time promoting Palladium's RTT? At the current $10/hr California minimum wage, he should have been compensated $200 + mileage. I'm sure his pass being comped by the con helped, but it's a hell of a thing to give up both Sat & Sun just to get Friday and/or Monday free..
He seems to love the game, I think his "compensation" would have been better if more people came by to play.
His horrible dice rolls were taken with good grace but did not help matters. I was "surprised" there was no convention mark-down on the product: it was all marked up to match the USD cost on their website.
If I was a really nice person, I should have contacted PB and offered to hold "Build a Pod" sessions to show people how to do models (no, not donate my own to build or be given away).
NOT UEDF forces, we do not want to scare them off!
"See how easy the pods are to do..." "What are those jet things?" "Nothing to worry about now... you are building pods, they are fun!"
It is not like all those little box sets were going anywhere... $37 odd dollars, no, no, no...
I must admit I feel guilty to not have played but I had a few dad duties to deal with kids feeling overwhelmed / excited with the convention.
Plus I wanted to talk a bit with Jamz since his interests or at least active games he plays matches mine.
I spent more time at the Bayblade area of all things since my kids entered the competition.
"Let it RIPPPPP!!!!" is as bad a "WHAAAAAAAGH!!!" with 40k.
jaymz wrote: His compensation for essentially doing every possible bit of PR for rrt for them was his pass into the con and a whopping 50% off the one metal mini he bought (14 bucks). He didnt need anything since he bought several already last Gencon. .
Gotta ask, has their been a price increase, or is there something missing in the math? Cause the last I read, the metal minis were $22 per item. 50% off would be $11.
jaymz wrote: His compensation for essentially doing every possible bit of PR for rrt for them was his pass into the con and a whopping 50% off the one metal mini he bought (14 bucks). He didnt need anything since he bought several already last Gencon. .
Gotta ask, has their been a price increase, or is there something missing in the math? Cause the last I read, the metal minis were $22 per item. 50% off would be $11.
Did something 'upsetting' get posted on the PB forums? Because in both the RTT and all things palladium forums posts have been deleted back to the 27th. And yes there were new posts there but I didnt look yesterday.
Morgan Vening wrote: Gotta ask, has their been a price increase, or is there something missing in the math? Cause the last I read, the metal minis were $22 per item. 50% off would be $11.
Canadian pricing versus US.
Gotcha. Makes perfect sense now. And you did say they'd price adjusted to reflect US costs. I just didn't have the two things click.
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evilsmurf wrote: Did something 'upsetting' get posted on the PB forums? Because in both the RTT and all things palladium forums posts have been deleted back to the 27th. And yes there were new posts there but I didnt look yesterday.
Not sure. I know that traffic on the RRT forum is bugger all, sometimes going close to two weeks without posting. And even the ATP forum has been slow since the Savage Worlds Kickstarter has concluded (condolence threads excepted).
Lack of engagement from the people in charge.+ No new products in a half year + Relatively small fanbase + No new controversy + Excessive banhammering = Nothing much to talk about.
If there were posts deleted, I'd expect it was just someone flaming out (Screw you Palladium! See you in hell!). Everything else seems intact.
I've popped in a few times over a three day weekend to see if more Anime North news made it over there in addition to dakka (or if the Dakka news made it there and the denials started) and I haven't seen anything new pop up since at least Friday. I don't think anything has been culled; it's just that much of a ghost town. The last time I checked it prior to this weekend it was an almost two week stretch between posts. Even the general palladium subforum hadn't been posted in for days and the only Robotech RPG bumps were the usual joke/parody threads that are the only consistently active topics for years.
<------ Envious that you've got yours started already. I have the TV version at home waiting patiently for me to get around to working on it, and it looks gorgeous. Can't wait for you to slap some paint on it and show me up there too!
evilsmurf wrote: Did something 'upsetting' get posted on the PB forums? Because in both the RTT and all things palladium forums posts have been deleted back to the 27th. And yes there were new posts there but I didnt look yesterday.
I haven't noticed anything, and I'm on there just about every day.
evilsmurf wrote: Did something 'upsetting' get posted on the PB forums? Because in both the RTT and all things palladium forums posts have been deleted back to the 27th. And yes there were new posts there but I didnt look yesterday.
nope don't see anything amiss there, just think its quiet, did see someone post who thinks PB and ND are still working together or such ?
Cool! Could you please post some pics of these minaitures with the Regults and valkyries beside them? In Robotech Tactics Unofficial the C3 miniatures were mentioned as a viable and good looking alternative for zentraedi infantry.
I would like to see how well they match with the Regults and overall RRT scale.
Well, I boxed up all my Wave 1 stuff and moved it out of my game room and into dead storage in the garage. I can't bring myself to actually sell it off (assuming I could even find a buyer) but every time I saw that big box sitting next to my painting table I'd get angry all over again. That's not what a hobby is for so... out with it!
mdauben wrote: Well, I boxed up all my Wave 1 stuff and moved it out of my game room and into dead storage in the garage. I can't bring myself to actually sell it off (assuming I could even find a buyer) but every time I saw that big box sitting next to my painting table I'd get angry all over again. That's not what a hobby is for so... out with it!
Nesbet wrote: @mdauben, I could buy the bases and action tokens at least ^_^u
@Asterios, that video is as real as the russian yeti. So fake that the eyes bleed xD
actually the guy has a lot of dumpster diving videos out and this is probably the biggest haul or one of the biggest he has gotten, it is very real.
Nesbet wrote: Cool! Could you please post some pics of these minaitures with the Regults and valkyries beside them? In Robotech Tactics Unofficial the C3 miniatures were mentioned as a viable and good looking alternative for zentraedi infantry.
I would like to see how well they match with the Regults and overall RRT scale.
Thanks in advance!
actually look at Sedition wars troops, they make a decent replacement for Zentraedi, in fact think Mike (and others) is doing something like that.
Asterios wrote: actually look at Sedition wars troops, they make a decent replacement for Zentraedi, in fact think Mike (and others) is doing something like that.
Why do you people keep showing me new ways to replace PBKS product? Why???
Challenge accepted.
I have a feeling some moderate green stuff use will be needed to create the few key features needed.
Never mind the garish colour scheme would make them believable all on their own.
Okay, Anyone that was interested in those GHQ pewter minis PB has been flogging, here are some pictures of the contents (this is for you Nesbet)
Spoiler:
My only beef is that the female armor had a short shot of incomplete flow to the back main jets.
I will have to rebuild those areas before cloning can be done properly.
I will probably build Breetai first since well, there can only be one of him.
The unit voted least likely to be fielded but we sure would like to see it.
mdauben wrote: Well, I boxed up all my Wave 1 stuff and moved it out of my game room and into dead storage in the garage. I can't bring myself to actually sell it off (assuming I could even find a buyer) but every time I saw that big box sitting next to my painting table I'd get angry all over again. That's not what a hobby is for so... out with it!
I moved a few months back and a buddy that I use to play robotech helped me moved... As payment I gave him all my kick starter stuff..Told him not to talk about it with me and don't offer me to ever play it...
mdauben wrote: Well, I boxed up all my Wave 1 stuff and moved it out of my game room and into dead storage in the garage. I can't bring myself to actually sell it off (assuming I could even find a buyer) but every time I saw that big box sitting next to my painting table I'd get angry all over again. That's not what a hobby is for so... out with it!
I moved a few months back and a buddy that I use to play robotech helped me moved... As payment I gave him all my kick starter stuff..Told him not to talk about it with me and don't offer me to ever play it...
Genoside07 wrote: I moved a few months back and a buddy that I use to play robotech helped me moved... As payment I gave him all my kick starter stuff..Told him not to talk about it with me and don't offer me to ever play it...
Genoside07 wrote: I moved a few months back and a buddy that I use to play robotech helped me moved... As payment I gave him all my kick starter stuff..Told him not to talk about it with me and don't offer me to ever play it...
He should have demanded the 6-pack of beer!
That way he would at least have gotten something out of it
Talizvar wrote: Okay, Anyone that was interested in those GHQ pewter minis PB has been flogging, here are some pictures of the contents (this is for you Nesbet)
Thanks for posting those, I hadn't seen most of them before.
I was just looking online for stuff to decorate Robotech bases with, but a quick search didn't bring up very much in 1:285 scale. I can see various types of tanks and historical or futuristic infantry models, but didn't see much civilian stuff in that scale. I found a few cars in 1:300, and some model railroad stuff in Z scale? As far as I can tell Z scale is around 1:200, so probably too big? I've ordered a few 1:200 cars to give me and idea if that scale is useable or not.
So does anyone have any suggestions for urban / city bits that can be added to the bases for decoration? The best range I've found so far were 1:240 scale and 1:300 scale stuff from microform models, but I was wondering if anyone had found anything else?
Talizvar wrote: Okay, Anyone that was interested in those GHQ pewter minis PB has been flogging, here are some pictures of the contents (this is for you Nesbet)
Spoiler:
@Talizvar Thanks for the pics!! It really helps. I'm wondering why the heck did PB not add the regular 50mm bases and provides the FPA with that warmachine like base... T__T
I think it will be a pain in the ass to clone the FPA hands. Start thinking about cutting them and replace with wire fingers after the arms are cloned.
Gotta sculpt fists and hands for MPA too.
@Soul Samurai, just what jaymz said Or you can go with rubbish debris and demolished things. Way easier to do
I want to quote this:
Talizvar wrote:Soon, I will complete my Robotech, with or without PB.
THAT'S THE ATTITUDE! That's the way to go!
At least I'm done waiting for PB to do something. I'm planning to:
- Clone the Grell and Miriya in QR to make MPA and FPA units. In plural. lol - Found an alternative to infantry. Thinking abour BtGoA (what a damn name huh?) C3 troops. Waiting for your pics Albertorius!! - Seak for 40K jetpacks to build Nousgarma-Ger using the Grell clones.
- Buy a Gnerl from shapeways and clone it.
- And I have seriously no idea how to make the Glaug-Eldare xD
Meanwhile. Just finished priming and bulding and storing my models so far:
Soul Samurai wrote: So does anyone have any suggestions for urban / city bits that can be added to the bases for decoration? The best range I've found so far were 1:240 scale and 1:300 scale stuff from microform models, but I was wondering if anyone had found anything else?
A long time ago I setup this thread to catalogue what I could.
There is a ton of new stuff that keeps popping up.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/531655.page#5703520 Hope that helps.
There is a fair bit of 6mm stuff on Shapeways as well, since they mainly charge by volume 6mm stuff is economical.
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Nesbet wrote: Meanwhile. Just finished priming and bulding and storing my models so far:
Some 56 pods!
Not bad at all.
UEDF has no hope to keep up at all.
It's amazing how this has turned into a hobby thread of late; even moreso with all the models beyond what PB has produced - it shows how little we need to rely on them to actually have a good time, it seems.
Nesbet wrote: I think it will be a pain in the ass to clone the FPA hands. Start thinking about cutting them and replace with wire fingers after the arms are cloned.
I think the classic paperclip will work cut and bent to size.
It has the "ribbing" on it like the model.
Or, brass rod to size and when using pliers to bend it will have similar marks when done.
Anyone know of some decent flyer stands for the jets? Ordered some off eBay but they have the T shape to them and would be great for slotted bases...but not the kind we get in the RRT set.
grumpy_newenglander wrote: Anyone know of some decent flyer stands for the jets? Ordered some off eBay but they have the T shape to them and would be great for slotted bases...but not the kind we get in the RRT set.
I make my own, out of a plastruct rod and plastruct tube piece I cut off to fit it into, then attach magnet on other side of rod which attaches to magnet on flyer.
Nesbet wrote: Ribbing? Are those marks made on porpouse or just because the original model to make the model was a 3D printed version that was not sanded?
I am unsure if you are joking or not.
I think the little marks are segments where the claw bends to grip.
Another way is to put some brass rod into a dremel with a chuck and "lathe" little marks with some abrasive or a knife.
Nesbet wrote: Ribbing? Are those marks made on porpouse or just because the original model to make the model was a 3D printed version that was not sanded?
I am unsure if you are joking or not.
I think the little marks are segments where the claw bends to grip.
Another way is to put some brass rod into a dremel with a chuck and "lathe" little marks with some abrasive or a knife.
they are joints, look at your own fingers, see how your fingers have like 3 joints each? they are more pronounced on the FPA.
You guys might want to take the talk about copying minis to PM's even if it is for legal personal use. A proper interpretation of fair use has never stopped Palladium from sending out C&D letters in the past and there is no point in getting one of the only places where we can discuss the ongoing failures of this project in trouble.
warboss wrote: You guys might want to take the talk about copying minis to PM's even if it is for legal personal use. A proper interpretation of fair use has never stopped Palladium from sending out C&D letters in the past and there is no point in getting one of the only places where we can discuss the ongoing failures of this project in trouble.
as long as we are not selling them or such PB can't do jack, they can try but will fail.
Figured now is as good a time as any to mention it. Whether or not PB can or cannot do anything about it, those are the Admin's explicit instructions.
Note, I'm not a Mod, I'm not pretending to be a Mod, but figured I'd do the neighborly thing and make sure we're all on the same page before a Mod has to descend from upon high and deal with us (already the most negative thread on Dakka!).
And to be further clear, no I don't care about people doing whatever they want for personal use. Go ahead, make a million of 'em.
But talking about it openly risks garnering someone's ire.
Figured now is as good a time as any to mention it. Whether or not PB can or cannot do anything about it, those are the Admin's explicit instructions.
Note, I'm not a Mod, I'm not pretending to be a Mod, but figured I'd do the neighborly thing and make sure we're all on the same page before a Mod has to descend from upon high and deal with us (already the most negative thread on Dakka!).
And to be further clear, no I don't care about people doing whatever they want for personal use. Go ahead, make a million of 'em.
But talking about it openly risks garnering someone's ire.
people can talk, they just can't show how to do it, so I say talk all they want about what they are doing, does not violate Dakka's rules I think ?
Asterios wrote: people can talk, they just can't show how to do it, so I say talk all they want about what they are doing, does not violate Dakka's rules I think ?
Articles/forum threads that serve as a means to promote and/or help normalize the concept of unauthorized recasting will be locked or deleted. This is a difficult guideline to precisely define, and its enforcement is handled on a case-by-base basis, rather than a strict set of rules to follow. Generally, it is permissible to talk about the concept of unauthorized recasting and even voice your opinion on whether you think it is morally wrong or right. However, the moment the conversation/article turns into a vehicle to promote unauthorized recasting, it becomes inappropriate
Example snipped because it's not relevant here.
Plus, y'know, Alpharius just said to knock it off.
But if you want to pick a fight with the Admin and Mod staff of Dakka over it, be my guest.
Please. The discussion about "cloning" some of the Limited Edition pieces wasn't exactly subtle.
C'mon man.
Edit: of course, if Tal and Nesbet were speaking purely of using those figures (and procuring others) simply as models for their greenstuff creations, my apologies all around, but that's not really 'cloning' so much as 'sculpting with reference material'.
Asterios wrote: people can talk, they just can't show how to do it, so I say talk all they want about what they are doing, does not violate Dakka's rules I think ?
Articles/forum threads that serve as a means to promote and/or help normalize the concept of unauthorized recasting will be locked or deleted. This is a difficult guideline to precisely define, and its enforcement is handled on a case-by-base basis, rather than a strict set of rules to follow. Generally, it is permissible to talk about the concept of unauthorized recasting and even voice your opinion on whether you think it is morally wrong or right. However, the moment the conversation/article turns into a vehicle to promote unauthorized recasting, it becomes inappropriate
Example snipped because it's not relevant here.
Plus, y'know, Alpharius just said to knock it off.
But if you want to pick a fight with the Admin and Mod staff of Dakka over it, be my guest.
but we are not promoting unauthorized recasting, we are settling for its the only way to get our stuff (in regards to the miriya model and the grell model), other then that me and a few others are desiging our own stuff, since there is not much options out there and PB will never deliver.
I just went over this with Johnny, but I see where this went off the rails.
Tal and Nesbet discussed "cloning" on the last page.
Warboss suggested people take the talk about "copying minis to PMs".
You jumped in assuming he meant your stuff.
I built on Warboss's statements noting that Dakka frowns on Recasting Existing Models, which you (Rick) are not doing, but that others were discussing.
Your response of "people can talk, they just can't show how to do it, so I say talk all they want about what they are doing, does not violate Dakka's rules I think?" is factually incorrect in regards to cloning/recasting. Which I quoted, and you're not doing, again.
So, are we all on the same page now, or do I need to go over this again in crayon?
It was two conversations that seem to have gotten muddled in the middle. 3D print a billion bioroids, I don't care. Recasting existing models, and talking about doing so on Dakka, is not permitted.
So can we stop arguing this stupid point that I never made?
Forar wrote: I'm not talking about your fething 3D prints, I was talking about Nesbit and Tal discussing "cloning" (aka Recasting) Limited Edition models.
Go ahead and 3D print a billion bioroids, I don't care.
Perhaps I should have @'d those two in particular, but it was a common courtesy reminder that had nothing to do with you.
Maybe I'm being a bit short here, but I *just* went over this with Johnny in the last few posts.
I know what you are talking about Forar and if I had one of those miriyas and grell power armor I would probably be cloning them, why? hate metal minis and would be much cheaper then $20 or so for one mini.
that and don't have my 3D program subscription anymore (had to make some sacrifices) so can't design my own.
Asterios wrote: I know what you are talking about Forar and if I had one of those miriyas and grell power armor I would probably be cloning them, why? hate metal minis and would be much cheaper then $20 or so for one mini.
that and don't have my 3D program subscription anymore (had to make some sacrifices) so can't design my own.
*facepalm*
Cool story bro. Clone/Recast to your hearts content. Apparently you do understand the topic, you just don't understand that the admins and mods have a rule about this very topic that was being broken.
I'm done with this, if you want to recast in the privacy of your own home, awesome. Now we can drop this topic here because it is verboten, and getting this thread locked/deleted for being home to unwanted talk is not going to do any of us any good.
Edit: Sorry Alph, that period of love and levity didn't last very long.
Talizvar wrote: A long time ago I setup this thread to catalogue what I could.
There is a ton of new stuff that keeps popping up.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/531655.page#5703520 Hope that helps.
There is a fair bit of 6mm stuff on Shapeways as well, since they mainly charge by volume 6mm stuff is economical.
Let's go again to zentraedi infatry proxies. What do you/would you use?
I calculated yesterday that the zent infantry miniature should be aprox 40mm tall, because of the fluff saying that zent warriors are 12m (40 feet) tall.
[1/285 scale means than in average, a humane measures 6mm~1.71m ]
I was looking at Dream Forge Games range... the Eisenhorn rage would look ok (IMHO, just changing and modifying the heads to match the zentraedi infantry style) but a bit too short, 33~37mm, calculated just with the pics online, considering that the bases are 30mm wide.
Does anyone of you have these minis? Or Concord C3 shock/drop troops? That's another range I'm looking to use to proxie the zent infantry, but I can't figure how tall the minis are.
Any other ideas?
I have both C3 troopers and DFG stormtroopers, so I'll add that to the pic list. Both ranges are designed to be human people on a 28-32mm scale, so... that said, if you go for a more canonical sizing, they would be more or less correct.
Thanks Albertorius. That would be helpful.
And no, I don't care SO much about heights, but looking at the Breetai miniature makes me find a more apropiate zentraedi infantry xD
That guy is colossal, lol
And the 3D renders of the PBRRT Zentraedi warriors look like ~40mm too.
35mm would be ok for me I think, specially considering that the warriors should fit inside the Regults, Glaugs and other mecha
EDIT: and thanks for the link, I haven't seen this sketch before!
Asterios wrote: I know what you are talking about Forar and if I had one of those miriyas and grell power armor I would probably be cloning them, why? hate metal minis and would be much cheaper then $20 or so for one mini.
that and don't have my 3D program subscription anymore (had to make some sacrifices) so can't design my own.
*facepalm*
Cool story bro. Clone/Recast to your hearts content. Apparently you do understand the topic, you just don't understand that the admins and mods have a rule about this very topic that was being broken.
I'm done with this, if you want to recast in the privacy of your own home, awesome. Now we can drop this topic here because it is verboten, and getting this thread locked/deleted for being home to unwanted talk is not going to do any of us any good.
Edit: Sorry Alph, that period of love and levity didn't last very long.
Well, we tried. I'm confident we can get back there.
And seriously - the recasting/casting policy here is pretty clear - DO talk about/show casting your own stuff. DO NOT talk about/show casting stuff that is the IP of someone else. Additionally, DO NOT link to people who sell recasts.
That's it.
If someone is still confused about it, just send me a PM.
Nesbet wrote: Thanks Albertorius. That would be helpful.
And no, I don't care SO much about heights, but looking at the Breetai miniature makes me find a more apropiate zentraedi infantry xD
That guy is colossal, lol
And the 3D renders of the PBRRT Zentraedi warriors look like ~40mm too.
35mm would be ok for me I think, specially considering that the warriors should fit inside the Regults, Glaugs and other mecha
EDIT: and thanks for the link, I haven't seen this sketch before!
well according to that one page Albertorious linked to the Zentraedi in our scale would be about 60mm ? and yet this guy in this pic is 32mm:
And seriously - the recasting/casting policy here is pretty clear - DO talk about/show casting your own stuff. DO NOT talk about/show casting stuff that is the IP of someone else. Additionally, DO NOT link to people who sell recasts.
That's it.
If someone is still confused about it, just send me a PM.[/color]
well then I couldn't show off my stuff or even talk about my stuff I'm making because Robotech is the IP of HG/BigWest, etc. etc. i'm very confused ?
Nope. Female zentraedi are around 8~10 meters high and male ones 9~11 with exceptions, like Breetai being almost 14.
If we agree that the zentraedi warriors are in average 10m, that would be exactly 35mm in a miniature. (Remembering that 1mm equals to real 28.5cm, so, 10m would be 35.08mm in a miniature)
32mm would be 9.12m still ok for average.
30~40mm miniatures at least seems to fit inside the Regults/Glaug cockpits.
Asterios, that white soldier... where did it come from? Can't remember at the moment.
Nesbet wrote: Nope. Female zentraedi are around 8~10 meters high and male ones 9~11 with exceptions, like Breetai being almost 14.
If we agree that the zentraedi warriors are in average 10m, that would be exactly 35mm in a miniature. (Remembering that 1mm equals to real 28.5cm, so, 10m would be 35.08mm in a miniature)
32mm would be 9.12m still ok for average.
30~40mm miniatures at least seems to fit inside the Regults/Glaug cockpits.
Asterios, that white soldier... where did it come from? Can't remember at the moment.
I always thought in 6mm scale 1mm = 1 foot, so a guy who stands 6' tall would be 6mm to be at 6mm/1:285/300 scale
oh thats one of my guys I printed up using Shapeways.
And seriously - the recasting/casting policy here is pretty clear - DO talk about/show casting your own stuff. DO NOT talk about/show casting stuff that is the IP of someone else. Additionally, DO NOT link to people who sell recasts.
That's it.
If someone is still confused about it, just send me a PM.[/color]
well then I couldn't show off my stuff or even talk about my stuff I'm making because Robotech is the IP of HG/BigWest, etc. etc. i'm very confused ?
I know I shouldn't...
By my understanding of US law, creating figures based on another person's IP for personal use isn't illegal (something involving Fair Use, perhaps?), or at the very least it's grey/expensive enough most companies won't bother pursuing it. The grey can end when people start to *sell* those items or otherwise make profit off them. So while making personal 3D printed/sculpted figures might be (I don't know, I Am Not A Lawyer) IP infringement, I don't believe it's forbidden here on the forum.
"Re-casting" in the form of taking *an existing model, crafted by someone else, and making copies of it without their permission* is forbidden here.
You 3D printing figures is not unwelcome here.
You recasting some of your 3D printed figures to save time/money is not unwelcome here.
Recasting GHQ/PB/GW/Other Company's figures IS verboten here. Will PB send attack lawyers after Tal or Nesbet? Probably not. Dakka doesn't care, they don't want or need the heat, they have set a line in the sand and made their policy clear.
Recasting is IP infringement, IP Infringement isn't necessarily Recasting. We're specifically talking about making copies of someone else's existing figures, not simply mocking up our own Cyclones and Shapeways'ing our way to a personal Wave 3.
I suppose it could get iffy again if you scanned one of PB's LE figures and 3D printed a replica of it, but far as I'm aware nobody is doing that.
And seriously - the recasting/casting policy here is pretty clear - DO talk about/show casting your own stuff. DO NOT talk about/show casting stuff that is the IP of someone else. Additionally, DO NOT link to people who sell recasts.
That's it.
If someone is still confused about it, just send me a PM.[/color]
well then I couldn't show off my stuff or even talk about my stuff I'm making because Robotech is the IP of HG/BigWest, etc. etc. i'm very confused ?
I know I shouldn't...
By my understanding of US law, creating figures based on another person's IP for personal use isn't illegal (something involving Fair Use, perhaps?), or at the very least it's grey/expensive enough most companies won't bother pursuing it. The grey can end when people start to *sell* those items or otherwise make profit off them. So while making personal 3D printed/sculpted figures might be (I don't know, I Am Not A Lawyer) IP infringement, I don't believe it's forbidden here on the forum.
"Re-casting" in the form of taking *an existing model, crafted by someone else, and making copies of it without their permission* is forbidden here.
You 3D printing figures is not unwelcome here.
You recasting some of your 3D printed figures to save time/money is not unwelcome here.
Recasting GHQ/PB/GW/Other Company's figures IS verboten here. Will PB send attack lawyers after Tal or Nesbet? Probably not. Dakka doesn't care, they don't want or need the heat, they have set a line in the sand and made their policy clear.
Recasting is IP infringement, IP Infringement isn't necessarily Recasting. We're specifically talking about making copies of someone else's existing figures, not simply mocking up our own Cyclones and Shapeways'ing our way to a personal Wave 3.
I suppose it could get iffy again if you scanned one of PB's LE figures and 3D printed a replica of it, but far as I'm aware nobody is doing that.
Actually recasting for your own personal use is not illegal it is on par with designing your own items based on someone elses IP, there is no difference, if you are making both for yourself that is legal, if you are making both to resell that is illegal, there is no difference between the two, why you or DakkaDakka thinks there is, is beyond me. they are both the same acts, no difference.
Asterios wrote: Actually recasting for your own personal use is not illegal it is on par with designing your own items based on someone elses IP, there is no difference, if you are making both for yourself that is legal, if you are making both to resell that is illegal, there is no difference between the two, why you or DakkaDakka thinks there is, is beyond me. they are both the same acts, no difference.
Please read what I wrote again.
Slowly.
I never said it was illegal.
I said it was unwelcome/forbidden *here*.
Yakface (and through him, Dakkadakka) does not have to give a feth whether or not it's legally defensible. They set a line in the sand. It's a private forum, they can make talking about the band Journey or referencing the wrong Hitman game a bannable offense (both rules on one forum I frequent, should the admin catch you).
The rules I linked even note that recasting personally made items is entirely permitted! If someone wants to make their own greenstuff sculpted FPA and recast it, they can totally do that.
Nesbet wrote: and thanks for the link, I haven't seen this sketch before!
Sheesh. That IS big!
But it does bring up the question "If Breetai is about 14m tall, and a male Zentraedi is only 10m tall, how did a battloid VT [shown in the picture as almost as tall as Breetai.] get into a Zentraedi soldier's overcoat and not rip it to bits? Surely one of the soldiers would have realised it wasn't Breetai, so no points for saying it was his, and that wasn't shown either.
Edit:
It also seems somewhat wrong to say it, but you can tell the difference between the male and female alright - even if you've never seen the show. The FPA has pointy, high-heeled shoes, and shapely legs. Of course it's for a female. The males have somewhat satyr-like legs and a BIG GUN. 'Nuff said!
Asterios wrote: Actually recasting for your own personal use is not illegal it is on par with designing your own items based on someone elses IP, there is no difference, if you are making both for yourself that is legal, if you are making both to resell that is illegal, there is no difference between the two, why you or DakkaDakka thinks there is, is beyond me. they are both the same acts, no difference.
Please read what I wrote again.
Slowly.
I never said it was illegal.
I said it was unwelcome/forbidden *here*.
Yakface (and through him, Dakkadakka) does not have to give a feth whether or not it's legally defensible. They set a line in the sand. It's a private forum, they can make talking about the band Journey or referencing the wrong Hitman game a bannable offense (both rules on one forum I frequent, should the admin catch you).
The rules I linked even note that recasting personally made items is entirely permitted! If someone wants to make their own greenstuff sculpted FPA and recast it, they can totally do that.
and you missed my point, what the mod said would also include my personally designed sculpts based on the Robotech IP. my question is why draw a line that ignores the line?
Nesbet wrote: and thanks for the link, I haven't seen this sketch before!
Sheesh. That IS big!
But it does bring up the question "If Breetai is about 14m tall, and a male Zentraedi is only 10m tall, how did a battloid VT [shown in the picture as almost as tall as Breetai.] get into a Zentraedi soldier's overcoat and not rip it to bits? Surely one of the soldiers would have realised it wasn't Breetai, so no points for saying it was his, and that wasn't shown either.
Okay, please stop the talk on... you know... that word.
I will probably replace many elements or create a better master that is more flexible: I strongly think it will largely be a new work by me.
It is a bit up in the air as I study what I have.
I typically only cast stuff that I made when the miniature I want does not exist (yet, sometimes).
I strongly believe a company should be compensated for their works... yes, even PB,
I would much rather they have a "proper" product to buy rather than these "character" models.
I just want the Wave 2 stuff and I will find whatever means I can "proxy" until PB gets some proper models out (yeah, I know... if ever).
This is all so I can game RRT "properly" that others will see and hopefully will be a greater net benefit to RRT.
That image is from the "Do you remember love" movie, I believe. In the TV series I seem to remember the VT's being as tall as the regular Zhent soldiers (I think I even remember in one of the episodes them showing a VT-zhent size comparison diagram - I want to say it's in the episode Claudia is talking about how she met Roy)
Stormonu wrote: That image is from the "Do you remember love" movie, I believe. In the TV series I seem to remember the VT's being as tall as the regular Zhent soldiers (I think I even remember in one of the episodes them showing a VT-zhent size comparison diagram - I want to say it's in the episode Claudia is talking about how she met Roy)
While I'm sure the sizes widely vary depending on which dirt cheap animator they used for that scene that particular day in the early 1980's (see the Breetai pic below when he is normally depicted as much taller than other zents), there is plenty of precedent for making zent infantry the same size as veritechs.
Please note (any always ready to pounce nitpickers and contrarians in this thread) that this isn't an all inclusive list but rather just what popped up on page one of a single image search. For instance, there is also the scene in the last few episodes where the RDF fake a zentraedi rebellion transmission to lure Kyron in and there is a zent soldier/actor next to a veritech that he was just fighting... and the veritech lights up his cigarette with his GU-11. I didn't find that scene for instance but my foggy memory tells me that they were roughly the same size as in the pics above.
And, yes, I do find it funny that the only comparison pics I've found make the zentraedi infantry look like they're always either spooning or 7th grade slow dancing with veritechs.
The key to "personal use" comes down to what you do with it the copies. US law allows to make as many copies as you want FOR YOURSELF, however once you start making them for OTHERS even if it's done for free it becomes manufacture for distribution. Unless you specifically created and designed the 3d file yourself you are using the product of somebody work so it's not protected under fair use. If you make a dozen copies and give them away to a friend you are technically violating what's allowed under fair use, will big mean PB come after you? It's highly unlikely given the numbers involved, but they could.
In that case if the court finds in their favor it would likely issue a binding order to cease production. If they managed to prove that there were grounds for damages to be awarded you could be socked with a fee that upwards to a maximum of $50k per item that was made and they could also hit you with additional fines to cover the costs of their lawyers taking you to court, the judges are supposed to base damage awards on the severity of the infringement so a large award over fairly inexpensive models would be very unlikely but legal fees add up insanely quick and even the cost of defending oneself can be crippling, even if you win. It's highly unlikely they'd actually go through the expense and hassle of a court trial over a couple of minis you made or sold, but they could if they opted to. There is no requirement that profit be made on an item before it violates fair use, you violate it as soon as you distribute; ie as soon as it leaves your personal possession.
Using shapeways prints when somebody else designed the 3d model isn't protected under the rights for fair use, it's "allowed" due to apathy and the legal costs of going after the infringement, which is this case would require tens of thousands of dollars to go after maybe a couple of hundred dollars worth of models and profits. Just don't kid yourself into thinking it's" legally ok" because you've shared the 3d files with people or paid somebody to make a file for you.
That said, they allow pictures of models to be posted on dakka so long as the source is not disclosed, as it falls under hearsay. Nobody can prove what you did or didn't make yourself based solely on the picture, but when you are a dim bulb and start posting about how "person x made it" or "I got it made it here" you are acknowledging that it was created by a third party and you are openly admitting to violating the law (US law anyways) which is why discussion of the source is against forums rules.
I'm not a lawyer but I spent a metric crap ton of time and money dealing with IP specialist lawyers on the subject back when I was sued by GW. A lot of people have a pretty fuzzy understanding of what fair use allows them to do yet they talk about it like they are an expert because they might have read an unverified wiki article that one time. The lawyers I dealt with for about a year and half are employed at a huge multimillion dollar lawfirm that specializes in IP cases and they successfully handled GW in court so I'd place my bet with them vs some random article or blog online, but hey that's just me.
I personally don't care if people recast stuff, if they have friends help them make it, or buy armies worth on shapeways but how you or I personally feel doesn't determine how the law gets applied.
The Zentraedi, Invid, and Bioroids weren't personally sculpted by you. You may have paid somebody to make the files but they aren't your personal creation, so don't talk about the source.
The picture just makes it barely believable a "Micronian" can fit in the palm of Breetia's hand.
I like how the scale looks, it seems to work.
Mind-you a Zent. warrior certainly looks physically outmatched by a VT.
Talizvar wrote: The picture just makes it barely believable a "Micronian" can fit in the palm of Breetia's hand.
I like how the scale looks, it seems to work.
Mind-you a Zent. warrior certainly looks physically outmatched by a VT.
There's a bit of scale optical illusion going on in that Breetai pic.
My take home view though would be even if he was the same size as a veritech, a human female fits in a veritech hand (rick's VT-1D holding Minmei in episode 2ish) so therefore a humale female fits in a zentraedi hand too. YMMV.
Early in the show they cite everything being scaled to giant sized based on the size of the enemy, so all the giant doors weren't built with the mecha in mind but were based on the original size of the crashed Zentraedi SDF. On top of numerous scenes where foot soldiers and VT stand face to face there's also a scene where Rick(?) escapes using their VT to somehow climb inside and drive a Z pod.
The soldier size is fairly consistent as being VT height, the main scale disconnect comes from how the scale of the pods seems to vary sometimes the pods are really giant and lots of times they are almost the same height as the veritechs depending on what they want to show off for the scene. The officers pod also varies a lot in it's size there are episodes where it's clearly much larger than a standard pod then other times it's shorter than the VT that it's actively engaged in punching.
The B&W scale shot posted above is from the Do You Remember Love? movie which is a different set of designs from the original series. They rescaled the Zentraedi based on their caste/rank. Both the female and male power armor are different (in addition to being rescaled) HG/PB also can't use the design for the Strike Veritech's cannons as it only appeared in the DYRL movie and not the original series, so they don't have the rights to that one.
This was the scale chart for the original series, and Khyron is definitely undersized compared to what we see later in the series when he's on foot fighting VT's by hand as he's the same height as a VT. The pods are also much bigger than most of the toys and models represent.
Pretty significant size difference in the scale chart vs this:
There's a bit of scale optical illusion going on in that Breetai pic.
Yes, but it's taken from in front and low to the ground - from Breetai's perspective at least. That means that for the VT to look as big as Breetai, it would have to be bigger as it is behind him. If the VT is bigger than Breetai, he must be SHORT for a zent, which would explain his apparent desire for conquest in what we humans call a "Napoleon Complex" [Despite the fact that Napoleon WASN'T particularly short compared to his contemporaries.]
So where does that leave us? I'm confuddled!
Edit: @ Paulson. That picture looks more like what I had imagined, but means that no normal Zentraedi would have a coat big enough to cover a VT. How would any VT be able to be covert on a Zentraedi ship?
Conrad Turner wrote: Edit: @ Paulson. That picture looks more like what I had imagined, but means that no normal Zentraedi would have a coat big enough to cover a VT. How would any VT be able to be covert on a Zentraedi ship?
Plot scaling? Sorta like plot armor, but instead things fit based upon their need for the scene. It's one of those things about the series, it was done to tell a story not stand up to adult logic 30 years later.
Asterios wrote: well according to that one page Albertorious linked to the Zentraedi in our scale would be about 60mm ? and yet this guy in this pic is 32mm:
In 1:285 scale, a regular 8-10 m zentran would be between 28 and 35 mm. That's mostly correct. As to the scaling inconsistences in the series, it is also addressed in the link. Let's just say it's thoroughly fethed up xDD. If you don't mind going outside of the first TV series, Macross has been relatively more coherent.
Guys, it's very clear that you can create your own stuff for personal use. Regardless of the IP involved.
You can make a painting of Disney's Mickey Mouse. You can make as many as you want. You just can't sell them as "Mickey Mouse" paintings without a license from Disney.
In the same vein, you can create all the Space Marines you like. GW can't do jack gak about that, if it's all personal use. But it's gonna suck if you start selling them as "Warhammer 40,000 Space Marines".
As for Robotech / Macross, you can physically / digitally hand-sculpt whatever you like. You can make a VF out of matchsticks or cardstop or whatever. You can hand sculpt Minmei. You can do all of that to your heart's content. And you can share it all here.
What you can't do is to talk about how you're going to take GHQs stuff and blatantly copy it, because that is clearly illegal.
So, go ahead and sculpt and print Bioriods and Alpha/Beta Fighters. Sculpt and print MPAs and FPAs and Monsters. Share that with us. It's awesome.
well, so can we agree that the series has a load of inconsistences, right? Zent soldiers could measure 8~11m, so that gives plenty of space for other brands of miniatures (32-40mm aprox).
So, whats your ideal choice for proxies of another brands? Any other suggestions?
You can make a painting of Disney's Mickey Mouse. You can make as many as you want. You just can't sell them as "Mickey Mouse" paintings without a license from Disney.
paulson games wrote: The key to "personal use" comes down to what you do with it the copies. US law allows to make as many copies as you want FOR YOURSELF, however once you start making them for OTHERS even if it's done for free it becomes manufacture for distribution. Unless you specifically created and designed the 3d file yourself you are using the product of somebody work so it's not protected under fair use. If you make a dozen copies and give them away to a friend you are technically violating what's allowed under fair use, will big mean PB come after you? It's highly unlikely given the numbers involved, but they could.
In that case if the court finds in their favor it would likely issue a binding order to cease production. If they managed to prove that there were grounds for damages to be awarded you could be socked with a fee that upwards to a maximum of $50k per item that was made and they could also hit you with additional fines to cover the costs of their lawyers taking you to court, the judges are supposed to base damage awards on the severity of the infringement so a large award over fairly inexpensive models would be very unlikely but legal fees add up insanely quick and even the cost of defending oneself can be crippling, even if you win. It's highly unlikely they'd actually go through the expense and hassle of a court trial over a couple of minis you made or sold, but they could if they opted to. There is no requirement that profit be made on an item before it violates fair use, you violate it as soon as you distribute; ie as soon as it leaves your personal possession.
Using shapeways prints when somebody else designed the 3d model isn't protected under the rights for fair use, it's "allowed" due to apathy and the legal costs of going after the infringement, which is this case would require tens of thousands of dollars to go after maybe a couple of hundred dollars worth of models and profits. Just don't kid yourself into thinking it's" legally ok" because you've shared the 3d files with people or paid somebody to make a file for you.
That said, they allow pictures of models to be posted on dakka so long as the source is not disclosed, as it falls under hearsay. Nobody can prove what you did or didn't make yourself based solely on the picture, but when you are a dim bulb and start posting about how "person x made it" or "I got it made it here" you are acknowledging that it was created by a third party and you are openly admitting to violating the law (US law anyways) which is why discussion of the source is against forums rules.
I'm not a lawyer but I spent a metric crap ton of time and money dealing with IP specialist lawyers on the subject back when I was sued by GW. A lot of people have a pretty fuzzy understanding of what fair use allows them to do yet they talk about it like they are an expert because they might have read an unverified wiki article that one time. The lawyers I dealt with for about a year and half are employed at a huge multimillion dollar lawfirm that specializes in IP cases and they successfully handled GW in court so I'd place my bet with them vs some random article or blog online, but hey that's just me.
I personally don't care if people recast stuff, if they have friends help them make it, or buy armies worth on shapeways but how you or I personally feel doesn't determine how the law gets applied.
The Zentraedi, Invid, and Bioroids weren't personally sculpted by you. You may have paid somebody to make the files but they aren't your personal creation, so don't talk about the source.
thats why if I use someones 3D file I "found" I do alterations to it and slight changes so it could be considered a wholly new model and of my design. then there are items I did from scratch and so forth, to which I have shown others progress pictures and variations of, but all in all what I do make would be covered under fair use. especially since its for me.
Nesbet wrote: well, so can we agree that the series has a load of inconsistences, right? Zent soldiers could measure 8~11m, so that gives plenty of space for other brands of miniatures (32-40mm aprox).
So, whats your ideal choice for proxies of another brands? Any other suggestions?
well as has been mentioned the troopers from Sedition Wars make a good cheap candidate.
You can make a painting of Disney's Mickey Mouse. You can make as many as you want. You just can't sell them as "Mickey Mouse" paintings without a license from Disney.
The rule is crystal clear on this stuff. Don't like it too flippin bad move the hell on instead spewing it all over the thread. God some people just do not know when to shut the hell up.
Talizvar wrote: Why do I feel like there is a sudden run on Sedition Wars miniatures and I am missing the boat?
Considering that copies last I checked were sitting online unsold at $30 including shipping, I think you're safe. It's more like being really thirsty in a boat floating in the middle of the Great Lakes. You'll be ok.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnHwangDD wrote: Are you looking to buy a boxed set of SedWars? If so, I call dibs on the buyer! $60+S&H.
Lol, you've been waiting for that opportunity for two years! Don't worry though.. just like robotech, that gak sells like hotcakes on amazon!
Okay, someone on the Kickstarter page said the Veritech - R variant head was a pain in the rear to assemble. I decided to try it. First, here it is: I learned something important to do with photography: never take a picture of something small on glass. Notice the cutting mat beneath is in perfect focus... I used these fancy tweezer cutters but cutting down on cardboard works pretty good as well if you think something is delicate. Keep your fingers on these little bits when you make the last cut: they all seem to want to fly far away if not held down. Someone suggested cutting inside a ziploc bag for these issues... So I shaved the extra bits off with a sharp tiny knife and 1.75 times glasses because I am old... This is the tricky part: First figure out which way is up for the silly dual guns. Then DO NOT PUSH IN BY THE GUNS, I used my sculpting pointy tool to push it in from the middle, pick whatever you are comfortable with that you will not stab yourself. It takes a little bit of force but kinda pops in, a little too good a fit. I then decided trying to get it out to glue was foolish, so the Tamiya green cap glue is ideal: it wicks in. I do not mind these little guys, the 3 models to field "one model" makes it a bit of an effort and the... well... 20 odd pieces but they are not a struggle for fit.. Thanks for putting up with the Sasquatch style pictures, I promise I will do better next time.
Conclusion: Take a few precautions and the heads are not terrible to do.
I am getting more serious about how to hack-up an Armored Valkyrie, I think I have an idea. It is just an idea... no baying for blood to hand over the "secret"... I will work on a prototype now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, I am thinking of an armored Veritech:
Spoiler:
Now look real close to what I propose here: It will cost one VT and a Spartan but I think I can make this work with a bit of styrene rod and square tube. The chest plate is the hard bit, I was tempted to hack up the foot for the Tomahawk, the back part is a similar shape but that is madness THREE models to make one... no I am not that crazy. So I may have to sculpt the chest plate unless any of you out there have a cool idea? I would send cookies...
So the proposed thing to do is notch out the missile launchers to fit the VT shoulders into. Hack the bottom of the Spartan feet and fit the VT feet inside. I might be able to cut the same polystyrene square tube on an angle and avoid wrecking the legs altogether. Cut the Spartan arms to fit with the VT upper arms. Cut three little rounds for the missiles on the end of the arm, I may have to sculpt the non-gun hand. Cut three lengths of rounds to attach to the hips of the legs. A combination of the VT forearm and the Spartan forearm I think I can make the jetpack, I have some card I can use to lengthen the tips and can cut appropriately.
I have done this many times in my head, what can go wrong?? I got the vision mon, just a wee bit more ganja... and....
Funny you would think for sonwone whos arm was bothering and hindering him soooooo much he woumd kept in the slingband not been waving it about for the better part of 4 hours prior to going to the hotel "exhausted"......
And rrt is a priority what with the much vaunted 3d prints of wave two stuff kept in a case under the table....not on display because who wants to see miniature anime mecha at an anime convention after all....idiots.
This is very close to what I had in mind. Two of us can't be wrong, right?
I was going to cut up the super valk boosters for the jetpack. Remove the nozzles at the end and reverse the front part. It's pretty easy to do once they're in resin.
For the chest piece, I'm thinking the back part of a phalanx.
You'd still need either the thigh missile pods from the tomahawk legs for the missile boxes on the lower legs of the armored valks. If I can find the time, I'll have to make the parts to try it out. I'm guessing it's OK to talk about casting up parts to hack up for conversions?
Talizvar wrote:
Okay, I am thinking of an armored Veritech:
Spoiler:
Now look real close to what I propose here:
It will cost one VT and a Spartan but I think I can make this work with a bit of styrene rod and square tube.
The chest plate is the hard bit, I was tempted to hack up the foot for the Tomahawk, the back part is a similar shape but that is madness THREE models to make one... no I am not that crazy.
So I may have to sculpt the chest plate unless any of you out there have a cool idea? I would send cookies...
So the proposed thing to do is notch out the missile launchers to fit the VT shoulders into.
Hack the bottom of the Spartan feet and fit the VT feet inside.
I might be able to cut the same polystyrene square tube on an angle and avoid wrecking the legs altogether.
Cut the Spartan arms to fit with the VT upper arms.
Cut three little rounds for the missiles on the end of the arm, I may have to sculpt the non-gun hand.
Cut three lengths of rounds to attach to the hips of the legs.
A combination of the VT forearm and the Spartan forearm I think I can make the jetpack, I have some card I can use to lengthen the tips and can cut appropriately.
I have done this many times in my head, what can go wrong?? I got the vision mon, just a wee bit more ganja... and....
Talizvar wrote: So the proposed thing to do is notch out the missile launchers to fit the VT shoulders into.
Hack the bottom of the Spartan feet and fit the VT feet inside.
I might be able to cut the same polystyrene square tube on an angle and avoid wrecking the legs altogether.
Cut the Spartan arms to fit with the VT upper arms.
Cut three little rounds for the missiles on the end of the arm, I may have to sculpt the non-gun hand.
Cut three lengths of rounds to attach to the hips of the legs.
A combination of the VT forearm and the Spartan forearm I think I can make the jetpack, I have some card I can use to lengthen the tips and can cut appropriately.
I have done this many times in my head, what can go wrong?? I got the vision mon, just a wee bit more ganja... and....
That sounds like a good idea, I look forwards to seeing the results! If it works will you post a step-by-step guide?
I promised Nesbet some comparison pics, so here they are!
I made pics for Antares C3 trooper, Antares Algorin trooper, SedWars male and female trooper and Dreamforge Games Eisenkern trooper, comparing them with a Regult, a Glaug, a VF in multiple mods and a destroid. Pics are kind of big, so I'll spoiler them:
Those are the "Super Veritech" which is the thruster/missile launcher on the back, extended maneuvering thrusters on the legs and the launchers on the arms.
1:200 will be a bit on the big side: 9mm scale.
Funny though, most likely less parts.
Talizvar wrote: Those are the "Super Veritech" which is the thruster/missile launcher on the back, extended maneuvering thrusters on the legs and the launchers on the arms.
1:200 will be a bit on the big side: 9mm scale.
Funny though, most likely less parts.
The Super that I have is simply a Battletech Phoenix Hawk......there is someone that makes the other modes too but he is expensive.
Yeah, definitely Battletech, I recognize the Davion/Federated Suns symbol on the lower left leg.
On the 1/200 model, I believe the Crusader/Armored VF and the Super (a gashapon) in this picture is that scale. The Crusader, BTW, is a model I happen to have back from the late 80's/early 90's - it was put out by FASA for battletech.
If I ever do play this game, I'll probably use both in my games until I either scale all the models up to 1/200 (preferred - to cut out dealing with PB) or find some 1/285 sources (unlikely).
Hey Albertorius, thank you very much for the pics!
I´m now more inclined to use C3 troops for zentraedi infantry. I'm thinking about modifying the heads to match the zent style, but have no idea how to represent the heavy infantry.
Nesbet wrote: Hey Albertorius, thank you very much for the pics!
I´m now more inclined to use C3 troops for zentraedi infantry. I'm thinking about modifying the heads to match the zent style, but have no idea how to represent the heavy infantry.
Any ideas?
If you're going with C3 troopers, I'd suggest using C3 drop troopers for the heavies. They share the same general design aesthetics but different enough to avoid mixing them up:
Plus command squad:
OTOH, if you'd prefer a more semi biological feel to your zents, you might want to use Isorian troopers:
This is sad. At this point, the thing I'm most excited about is a fellow "Negima!" fan.
I moved last week, and I (not making this up) just grabbed my RRT minis and tossed them in a box. Every other mini I own was carefully wrapped and transported, but not these. Between the game being stillborn, being jerked around by PB, and having more pressing things to take care of, I was just not willing to care.
Which will happen first? RRT getting in backer hands (entirely), or the comments reaching the 100,000 mark?
That said, it's nice to see people painting their minis up nicely. Way to go, all!
I'd say the 100k mark, even with the comparative trickle that we have these days. I'm sure some controversy or another will crop up to get it rolling again.
Plus, if one includes the comments on the Updates, we're already well past that point.
Soul Samurai wrote: That sounds like a good idea, I look forwards to seeing the results! If it works will you post a step-by-step guide?
Yeah, got going on the VT Armor.
I learned a few ways how not to do it and stopped for a bit before it got expensive.
For interest, this is my "revised" plan for the Armored VT build, I am just bracing myself to recover what parts I can from my initial experiment.
Spoiler:
Upper Body The hip distance and cover plates are tricky: They need to be wider than other Battleoids:they seem to need to clear the folded wings at the back a bit.
If I am talking of green-stuff I should slop some on the fuselage and shape.
I am still at a loss on how to do the chest plate without slapping down a big wad of greenstuff and shaping to size.
I was hoping for an "out of the box" method.
If I do have to sculpt, well then I have to have an eye for molding so I can reproduce that shape: I have to keep undercuts to a minimum.
Legs: I might be able to hollow out the Spartan legs, cut the upper leg and glue to lower for knee cover and possibly insert the VT leg inside after the bottom feet get a major carving out.
Oddly, it may actually work better using the VT as the skeleton and hanging all the extra plates over top.
It will certainly ensure correct proportions.
It would be easier to glue the 3 "grenades" at each hip and smear some greenstuff to cap the leg and just follow the profile an extra mm bigger.
Getting each leg as one assembly would be terrific to reproduce.
Arms Assemble like normal, 90 deg right arm for pod gun.
Left arm can be right angle as well or straight.
Cut notch out of Spartan missile pods and mount on shoulder.
I think small square tubing can be cut for the "vents" at the back of the launcher.
I have ~1/4 in round and square tube.
I think the fore-arm fits in that.
Some careful cutting required.
The arm is round on the inside and squared off with the long arm guard.
Hopefully there will be enough room for the 3 round "grenade" launchers there.
That "should" cover the arms.
I expect a fair bit of greenstuff filling to be needed.
Molding for that, I will have to think about.
Backpack I figure the Spartan fore-arm as the bottom (the one angle looks correct).
Square tubing should work for the thruster.
The top will be plasticard cut to the length and angles cut at tips.
I may have to shave the back of the VT to ensure a good flat fit.
I would want these symmetrical so only one needs to be made.
If I do not get far, I may have to shelve this since I have pressing gaming matters.
I have to build a bunch of GI's for Bolt Action and in particular PAINT!!!
Well, at least you know you have an audience here... I know that's little consolation compared to actually playing another game that you could work on but it's something, right???....
@Etna's Vassal, sad to read that. But that'syour decision. It's true that PB has screwed the game and the franchise and the minis and... way too much. But is your decision what you make with your minis. You can play other games out there, Nodal Wars, Battletech, etc. You can work through your own wave 2. You can just play with wave 1? Use them just as figures for dioramas and display? why not?
In my case, the only thing I'm still waiting PB is to release the cards on drivrethrurpg.com. After that I'm done with PB, I would not care anymore what PB does. Or doesn't.
If you decide that tossing your minis that you paid is a good idea... well, I would say you should think things more clearly...
@Talizvar, I would love to see pics of that experiments and kitbashing! If they can be posted here, of course.
Cheers!
PS: And I think that PB is not ever going to release their rights and sketches and drawings and 3D renders and such to the backers. NEVER. I would like them to accept defeat and at least release the renders to print some minis on shapeways and similar services (I'm looking at you, Glaug-Eldare! Gnerls!!)
Of course there will be more than 100K comments. PB sucks.
Forar wrote: I'd say the 100k mark, even with the comparative trickle that we have these days. I'm sure some controversy or another will crop up to get it rolling again.
Plus, if one includes the comments on the Updates, we're already well past that point.
pffft I'm waiting for the day comments surpass the amount made (~1.4M) before they deliver Wave 2.
Just as an odd question, has anyone tried playing this game in Vassal or Tabletop Simulator yet?
jaymz wrote: So....i have ordered battletech alpha strike. Supposed to be similar "scale" in regards to battle sizes. I look forward to playing it.
The number of mechs might be the same roughly but the shooting rules are *VERY* simplified even compared with Robotech. My personal pet peeve is that you no longer have individual weapons but rather just everything lumped into one single stat for the range bracket. You don't fire your gu-11 at 6"... you're assumed to be firing your GU-11, missiles, and head lasers all together as one gestalt attack... but when you go out to the next range bracket you assumed to lose your head lasers and a bit of GU power so the combined weapon stat goes down. I think that might work thematically for BT (I remember linking weapons into groups and going full auto in the old Mechwarrior PC games) but I'm not sure in Robotech. YMMV and the game has fans in this thread and online as it is admittedly probably the most popular mech game out there. I fully admit I'm in the minority when it comes to not really liking it for the above reason.
Mechwarrior 2 (the one I put the most time in) was generally about being fast, loading down on medium lasers set to chain fire and blowing out legs while circle strafing.
Hrm, a Mech Commander style game would be fun with a Robotech reskin, though that was purely ground based units, most of them more on the lumbering side of things. Gnerls and Fighter Mode might not fit that style quite so easily.
Forcing an enemy to eject, stealing their mech and using a repair cradle to bring it back to some measure of fighting power always amused me, though it was often kept on the back lines lest the pilot become a victim of my daring.
Forar wrote: Mechwarrior 2 (the one I put the most time in) was generally about being fast, loading down on medium lasers set to chain fire and blowing out legs while circle strafing.
A stupidly fun tactic was also to load up with machine guns (no heat generated iirc... you just had to watch your ammo count) on *EVERY* possible spot with zero heat sinks and use the speed to get point blank with the enemy asap. You'd overheat a bit getting there (jump jets iirc and all) but once you got there and opened up that dozen linked machine guns the enemy mechs turned all those great colors and died so quickly you'd swear it was an LSD fuelled 60's music video. The lasers though were a more viable long term/longer mission strategy though and I used it as well.
Forar wrote: Mechwarrior 2 (the one I put the most time in) was generally about being fast, loading down on medium lasers set to chain fire and blowing out legs while circle strafing.
A stupidly fun tactic was also to load up with machine guns (no heat generated iirc... you just had to watch your ammo count) on *EVERY* possible spot with zero heat sinks and use the speed to get point blank with the enemy asap. You'd overheat a bit getting there (jump jets iirc and all) but once you got there and opened up that dozen linked machine guns the enemy mechs turned all those great colors and died so quickly you'd swear it was an LSD fuelled 60's music video. The lasers though were a more viable long term/longer mission strategy though and I used it as well.
There's also been a couple of official designs that used that tactic over the years, the most infamous being the clanner Piranha: 20 tonner, 10/15 movement, 12 MGs plus 2 ER med lasers and 1 ER small as backup. A star of those can chew throug basically anything if they get to range.
Forar wrote: Mechwarrior 2 (the one I put the most time in) was generally about being fast, loading down on medium lasers set to chain fire and blowing out legs while circle strafing.
A stupidly fun tactic was also to load up with machine guns (no heat generated iirc... you just had to watch your ammo count) on *EVERY* possible spot with zero heat sinks and use the speed to get point blank with the enemy asap. You'd overheat a bit getting there (jump jets iirc and all) but once you got there and opened up that dozen linked machine guns the enemy mechs turned all those great colors and died so quickly you'd swear it was an LSD fuelled 60's music video. The lasers though were a more viable long term/longer mission strategy though and I used it as well.
Nawww. The best was abusing the game flaw with Inferno Streak SRM's. In the board game, Infernos added +6 heat (of a max 30), but didn't stack. You were either on fire, or you weren't. In the PC game, they didn't have a cap. So, link 12 together, charge forward, until you got a lock, and fire. Very little initial damage, then the mech stops firing and shuts down. Then it explodes. I think there were two, maybe three mechs that needed a second volley. None took a third. The funniest part is that in a few scenarios, you face aerospace assets. Still worked. Watching the fighters shut down, and just hang there, in the air (the AI didn't know what to do with Aerospace shutdown), was giggle worthy.
Well mainly i want to compare it to rrt (obviously) as well ax the mekton zeta tactical and cinematic systems (derived from the standard mz system for larger battles)
After that i will know for sure what i will stick with.
The lesser detail to Alphastrike can be a good thing for the bigger battles.
I like the calculations for the short/medium/long range damage being grouped because at least the relative capability of the mech is preserved.
They are still true to their role of an up-close or sniper-like mech.
You can even customize the mech and feed it into the program and you get the Alphastrike version.
I think the second rulebook goes into detail of the formula for determining all the stats.
So destroids/pods, vf's, vehicles, aircraft/space fighters....seems it has everything rrt can offer...and it is likely simole enough to break down the weapons individually
Oh god. Now I am guaranteed to not receive anything else.
Work have just informed me that our site has been given its own postcode to help with deliveries. How ironic that it is probably going to kill any hope of getting my 'wave 2' stuff.
Both the old and new postcode will run simultaneously for the next year, then the old one will be discontinued so far as this site will be concerned.
[and we all know what chance we have of PB delivering the remains of an international backer's pledge within the next 12 months given their dazzling pace so far!]
Hello there. I have no idea if this has been posted before, so well, here it goes anyways...
I just found a html template similar to ArmyBuilder for RTT. It's free, it's simple and pretty good.
I attached the files here. You should just open the zip, open the html file and open index.html
Define wich army, core cards squadrons, squads and options. The click render and print
Nesbet wrote: Hello there. I have no idea if this has been posted before, so well, here it goes anyways...
I just found a html template similar to ArmyBuilder for RTT. It's free, it's simple and pretty good.
I attached the files here. You should just open the zip, open the html file and open index.html
Define wich army, core cards squadrons, squads and options. The click render and print Credits to Scott Prices, creator of this. Original files and other info on https://github.com/prices/SquadronBuilder Cheers!
I am suddenly distracted by this shiny thing.
I am tempted to see what I can make in MS Excel.
Thanks Nesbet, I will try this.
Looking at the program, it works nice, I like how the weapon upgrades populate as you pick the support cards.
Are we allowed more than one support unit card? I will have to go look that up.
Gosh-darn, now I am looking at list creation in battlescribe... one project at a time, still beating on the Armored VT and not liking what I am doing.
I also found a pdf detailing all the regular an elite core squadrons and squads of the 3 armies, with all the miniatures, including wave 2 miniatures and also and most important: upgrades for those miniatures (because point costs and profiles for wave 2 minis are already on the book and online...)
I can't credit anybody because the pdf has no author...
But it would be could if all of you can check it out and tell me where did those upgrades come from!
Or, if somebody could upgrade this html to support this miniatures and options? Or in Excel...
I also found a pdf detailing all the regular an elite core squadrons and squads of the 3 armies, with all the miniatures, including wave 2 miniatures and also and most important: upgrades for those miniatures (because point costs and profiles for wave 2 minis are already on the book and online...)
I can't credit anybody because the pdf has no author...
The art style and format looks like MikeMorpheus's earlier work before he started on his Nodal Wars alternative.
I also found a pdf detailing all the regular an elite core squadrons and squads of the 3 armies, with all the miniatures, including wave 2 miniatures and also and most important: upgrades for those miniatures (because point costs and profiles for wave 2 minis are already on the book and online...)
I can't credit anybody because the pdf has no author...
But it would be could if all of you can check it out and tell me where did those upgrades come from!
Or, if somebody could upgrade this html to support this miniatures and options? Or in Excel...
Cheers!
Those are mine......I made it in PPT. Those are the options based on all the stuff we do and do not have yet. They are the official upgrades.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have copies of all the cards, even the ones for wave 2.
As some of us progress, we could make very good use of the Wave 2 cards, would you be willing to point us to them? (or are they in your shared drive/vault?)
Work have just informed me that our site has been given its own postcode to help with deliveries. How ironic that it is probably going to kill any hope of getting my 'wave 2' stuff.
Both the old and new postcode will run simultaneously for the next year, then the old one will be discontinued so far as this site will be concerned.
[and we all know what chance we have of PB delivering the remains of an international backer's pledge within the next 12 months given their dazzling pace so far!]
<Goodbye, brain cells, I must leave you!>
well with PB not ever delivering anything at all you shouldn't have much to fear.
Talizvar wrote: My mistake, most of the cards are at DrivethruRPG.
But some things like the Gnerl are not there...
Add salt as needed but if memory serves they only took the time and effort to update the cards that could be used with the ZOMG buy them now! exclusive except for every second month metal minis like Miriya and the male power armor (I can't recall if that was a special character or not) in order to "allow"/persuade folks to buy multiples to field as normal unit squads while they're waiting for the plastics... hence the Gnerl was gnowhere.
warboss wrote: (I can't recall if that was a special character or not)
Wasn't the MPA associated with some character named "Grell" or something? I vaguely remember it being tied to one of the characters/cards we got with wave one, but haven't looked at that stuff in ages.
Talizvar wrote: As some of us progress, we could make very good use of the Wave 2 cards, would you be willing to point us to them? (or are they in your shared drive/vault?)
They should all be in my google drive.....see signature
You might be onto something there, Forar. There was a grell in the starter as a 5pt upgrade to a pod (I planned on usng him) but, now that you mention it, I think they did upgrade him way back last summer when they last tried to give a feth.
Okay, I gave the page for the RRT Battlescribe file a poke and reported an issue (update the darn file!).
I started digging into the programming for it.
I LIKE!!!
His modular programming is awesome, all the linking for everything makes the head spin a bit but I think I can get used to it.
Eric Falsken "efalsken" is pretty active lately on the 40k updates so maybe if he wants to relax he can throw some love this way or he can act as Yoda as I hack away.
I am pretty sure in my short time I was able to define the essence of the Super VF-1A and define the MDS-L-46 Hailstorm Missile Pack.
A fair bit of copy paste will be needed for the different flavors: (1J, 1D, 1S, 1R).
I will have to see if there will be more than a rule note for "Jettison".
Could you imagine: you would need 6(!!??) models for EACH of these fielded? (Unless you keep your army uniform so you can "fake it"... but where is the fun in that?)
A core choice would need 24 models... challenge accepted or run away screaming? You would need only 4 each for the Armored VT but, we have no choice cards for that (official!! easy there Mike! )
Imagine, fire ALL your missiles at range, Jettison and then unload your standard compliment of missiles and let the smoke clear.
How many out there are selling their starter boxes??
BTW, anyone having trouble figuring out how to import the data file feel free to PM me... it was not as intuitive as I would like but made me slap myself once I figured it out.
Maybe with a couple successes I can add some updates to the RRT Proboard as well.
Anything that progresses RRT and needs little or no involvement form PB makes me happy.
Maybe I can do as Mike and host a unofficial "complete" army list program.
There is nothing in the programming preventing me from changing to my heart's content but I would like to play ball with the official guy first.
Getting some visibility with a leading army list builder would be a good way to go.
I will have to see if there will be more than a rule note for "Jettison".
Could you imagine: you would need 6(!!??) models for EACH of these fielded? (Unless you keep your army uniform so you can "fake it"... but where is the fun in that?)
A core choice would need 24 models... challenge accepted or run away screaming?
I suspect people will just put a token or marker of some sort to indicate a super that jettisoned the armor... or use an unsed VF mode model from another squadron (you're only using 1/3 at any time).
Nesbet wrote: Just found that someone also was doing RRT files for Army Builder... xD
Sadly he left the project just with the minis of wave 1.
Would be cool if someone can make it, with all the options of wave 1 & 2. Go ahead Talizvar!
I seem to have misplaced my license number for Army builder and had undergone an unexpected email change so it may get interesting (Never use the Bell "sympatico" email and then switch providers: they delete it).
I looked at that program a while back and it made a bit less sense to me but that was a few years ago.
I do admit that I am most comfortable with the Army Builder interface, it makes very nice printouts.
I am rather torn, the development group for Battlescribe seems more alive than Armybuilder.
But the more direct and easy to change version by far is Excel.
Really need to be checked for ADHD... <analysis paralysis mode on>.
Nesbet wrote: Just found that someone also was doing RRT files for Army Builder... xD
Sadly he left the project just with the minis of wave 1.
Hey, can you blame him? So did Palladium! Ba-dum, dum, tisk! Thank you! Thank you! I'll be here all year!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Talizvar wrote: [
I do admit that I am most comfortable with the Army Builder interface, it makes very nice printouts.
I am rather torn, the development group for Battlescribe seems more alive than Armybuilder.
But the more direct and easy to change version by far is Excel.
Really need to be checked for ADHD... <analysis paralysis mode on>.
I used to use AB a ton when I was playing 40k back in 3rd and 5th editions. It's a good program but the yearly license fee (as opposed to just buying it like I did in 3rd edition) turned me off when I came back to it. Luckily, there was a guy/forum dedicated to updating the old edition files with new 40k stuff so I was covered. Unfortunately, the support for other game systems outside of the biggest one for an outdated version of the program was not surprisingly lacking. When I discovered battlescribe (first the free ad one then I bought the full version), it wasn't as pretty (as you said... I'm not sure if you can print out paper copies from the android version) but it supported alot more games. You can probably transfer files from the android mobile to the desktop version to print but the availability of smart phones makes having that paper copy less important (which wasn't the case back when I played 40k for me).
Hey, can you blame him? So did Palladium! Ba-dum, dum, tisk! Thank you! Thank you! I'll be here all year!
Won't we all? Shame PB doesn't turn up at all - it IS their show after all.
We are now just Kev's captive audience. We sit here and take whatever he throws at us - including his weekly 'update' of "Silence +10". The only way to show him that we don't want to hear it is to unsubscribe, but if we do that then only his "Tru-Fans" (TM) will talk to him and he'll think the rest of us have gone insane and no longer want the product, so he won't deliver it.
Maybe go for a more realisitic goal: 5342 people...
If we make it happen (regarding not making it only with backers, also with ghosts, random people or even bots xD) we could press PB to move and work a bit on wave 2.
Maybe get all the official cards thru drivethru? Maybe release all the 3D renders for free to backers to print them in shapeways? Who knows!
I we hit even a better score, we could convince Kevin that it's a good idea to finish and go on with RRT as a project, for future expansions.
I he still does nothing or keeps giving us the usual PWU garbage, we could even start a KS: LETS SUE Palladium Books/wave 2 is not coming or something alike.
Maybe for sure, maybe as a joke, it will make quite a fuzz in the internet. Imagine all the views in BOLS, warseer, dakkadakka etc etc etc
Nesbet wrote: Or is all this way too unrealisitic to be done?
I had further hope of trying to get Auditor General or the Federal Trade Commission involved by writing them.
That has not been successful so-far.
Now trying to put pressure on PB / Kevin, I think they have the same opinion as Oscar Wilde: "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.".
Unless financial stress can be placed on them through punitive legal means or souring any endeavor they enter to make money, I do not expect much from PB/Kevin.
I am unsure if Kickstarter is completely ruined for them, they seem to have cleaned house on Facebook and Conventions... well, we could not hurt them much there: few notice they exist.
I keep seeing an appetite for Robotech product in general but PB/Kevin really have not taken any intelligent steps to get what fans want out there and support products that can get more cash to their business.
I dislike unhelpful middle-men so I do it myself where possible.
Maybe go for a more realisitic goal: 5342 people...
*snip*
Or is all this way too unrealisitic to be done?
It's both unrealistic and pointless. I don't mean that as an insult to you but rather a simple statement of fact.
Palladium is immune to criticism. They've been panned for decades with flagging RPG sales year after year while being the laughing stock of the industry in their current form (although plenty of nostalgia for what they previously represented)... and they think they're fine. In 2012, Kevin Siembieda held a secret you didn't even know you were voting! poll at their open house event and came up with the result that only 1% of fans want any sort of change. No one knew they were "voting" in the poll when they just said "hi!" and shook his hand but he apparently took those as "yes, we're happy!" votes because enough people who ATTENDED the event said that they were never asked anything of the sort and if they had they would have said "no, we want change" to blow that ridiculous 1% number out of the water. Kevin also came to the conclusion that the folks complaining about his multiyear delays, years long lack of support, outdated art and book structure, and horrible rules aren't fans or customers so he should just ignore them. That's what will happen to any "change" petition you'll make.
In the meantime, most backers are to disinterested about the project to even log into Kickstarter to comment let alone vote on something that they'll likely never know about. The silent majority will simply stay silent. Even when palladium held their needlessly sham gencon vote (that they would have won without rigging), only a quarter roughly of backers bothered to sign in and that was after MULTIPLE updates emailed to every backer by kickstarter's system. At best, you'll get a few percentage points of backers to ever sign anything.
What we're left with is telling EVERYONE your personal honest experiences with Palladium as a backer and customer as well as simply not buying more of their products direct from them or new from any retailer that isn't offering a 50%+ off clearance price. That's how you can send a message to Palladium that they might care about. If you absolutely need more robotech models because you have an active gaming group (and it sounds like you do), try waiting for one of the frequent clearance sales (If you buy at normal price they might think there is a demand and that they should restock from Palladium)... better yet, buy used but still on sprue from a fellow backer at the same discount since there isn't much of a shortage of those. If you buy from another backer/customer who is fed up with this bs, you're accomplishing three things. 1) You're getting the models you want. 2) You're helping out a fellow backer/customer who gave up and wants out 3) You aren't giving Palladium any money until they own up to their responsibility and complete their rewards.
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ I know some of you fear that Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is forgotten or abandoned by Palladium. It is most definitely not. We have been continuing to look into ways to produce figures with much fewer parts and deliver a high quality product you will love. We’re looking into something very exciting right now through a third party. We are also working toward providing much more support in many areas. Much more to come.
Why do I get the feeling they're excited about unicast from Prodos? I'm guessing that they're zomg! 100 hour work week x 58 weeks a year forEvar! didn't even find that but rather a backer told them about it. In any case, Prodos has the same contempt for their kickstarter backers as Palladium so it may be a match made in heaven. Jarek and Kevin can sit around a campfire laughing about how they pulled on over their most dedicated customers that week while packing boxes of KS paid for rewards repurposed for retail.
edit: crap... and I'm back to 100% full negative again. :(
Nesbet wrote: Just found that someone also was doing RRT files for Army Builder... xD
Sadly he left the project just with the minis of wave 1.
Would be cool if someone can make it, with all the options of wave 1 & 2. Go ahead Talizvar!
I seem to have misplaced my license number for Army builder and had undergone an unexpected email change so it may get interesting (Never use the Bell "sympatico" email and then switch providers: they delete it).
I looked at that program a while back and it made a bit less sense to me but that was a few years ago.
I do admit that I am most comfortable with the Army Builder interface, it makes very nice printouts.
I am rather torn, the development group for Battlescribe seems more alive than Armybuilder.
But the more direct and easy to change version by far is Excel.
Really need to be checked for ADHD... <analysis paralysis mode on>.
I want to take a moment to rant about Army Builder, since this cost me an hour or two yesterday.... Lone Wolf is seriously the most fracked-up company putting out this sort of software and should be ashamed of their practices. Since I finally upgraded my PC to Win 10, the license went kaput on my machine and I have happily switched over to Battlescribe (after much rangling and failing to get my old license moved). Army Builder isn't worth the effort of installing or keeping up, and I would encourage anyone contemplating putting money into it look elsewhere - there are many other programs that do the same exact thing and do it without the pain-in-the-butt problems Army Builder (and Herolab) have.
As for PB, they're still up to their old tricks - I seriously hope they aren't looking at Unicast - Prodos has made a real mess of their AvP kickstarter that rivals the mess this one is in. Combining two feths is not how you clean gak - you only get a bigger, smellier pile.
Still working on painting my first RDF units, but the Zents are mostly done. Maybe I'll get a game in one day, possibly before wave 2 ships.
Exactly the same for me when reading your answers...
So, f*ck that sh*t! And started painting when arriving home after work!
Still a WIP, a crappy photo, but after a life-long-time-peiod just building, making scenery and playing here and there, I'm back to PAINTING! Screw you Kevin! Screw you PB! I'm gonna RRT with or without your help!
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ I know some of you fear that Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is forgotten or abandoned by Palladium. It is most definitely not. We have been continuing to look into ways to produce figures with much fewer parts and deliver a high quality product you will love. We’re looking into something very exciting right now through a third party. We are also working toward providing much more support in many areas. Much more to come.
Why do I get the feeling they're excited about unicast from Prodos? I'm guessing that they're zomg! 100 hour work week x 58 weeks a year forEvar! didn't even find that but rather a backer told them about it. In any case, Prodos has the same contempt for their kickstarter backers as Palladium so it may be a match made in heaven. Jarek and Kevin can sit around a campfire laughing about how they pulled on over their most dedicated customers that week while packing boxes of KS paid for rewards repurposed for retail.
edit: crap... and I'm back to 100% full negative again. :(
Yeah, if PB are looking to Prodos for answers, that's got potential for huge fethmuppetry. Sure, Prodos SEEM to be finally making good on their promises, but it's been a horribly bumpy ride across their several campaigns, and their communication has arguably been similar, as is the whole retail over backers deal. Having that level of competence and lack of information is one thing. Having it filtered through Palladium, is another. I just hope that if that's the case, that both sides have pretty clear contractual guidelines. Else it'll be a pretty quick rush to throw the other party under the bus.
I'm not sure of the speed required for Unicast. But there are by my count 25 models still owed in the Battlecry (that's assuming that PB don't fulfill their promise re Rick and Roy, and doesn't count the Monster, or the VEF/1D or anything that doesn't come in a BC). 25 * 6000+ Battlecry's = 150,000 models. Of course, that assumes single piece. Any splits (and they'll be necessary for at least some models) = proportionally more casts. While HIPS plastics can do multi-pieces at the same time (as evidenced by the sprues), at a rate of 2-3 per minute, I'd be curious the rate at which Unicast can be accomplished, especially given these appear to be larger than their existing models. And with materials like this, the larger the model, the longer it takes for the material to "set" before it can be removed from the mold.
Couple that with Prodos still working on their own fulfillment, EVEN if this is the case, it's likely looking to be a LONG way off before the last backers get fulfilled.
At least, IF and a big IF, Prodos is under PB radar, that will mean some movement. Better something than nothing? Right?
I just hope that if Prodos and unicast method is chosen, they make pieces and.not single poses miniatures. Would be a shame to wait for years to have same looking models.
Why do you think PB is looking at Prodos? Why not another company? Has PB or Kevin said something in the cons? (LOL, sure thing, Kevin giving info...)
PB was mentioning they were all excited as "an option" that a resin/plastic hybrid can be used with a "soft" mold that has the material injected under pressure to minimize bubbles / short shots and can manage a fair amount of undercuts.
Talizvar wrote: PB was mentioning they were all excited as "an option" that a resin/plastic hybrid can be used with a "soft" mold that has the material injected under pressure to minimize bubbles / short shots and can manage a fair amount of undercuts.
Hey Folks,
I was curious about this game since a buddy of mine picked up some of the figs. Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but can someone satisfy my morbid curiosity and let me know where the game and the kickstarter currently stands.
Nesbet wrote: Since its anouncement, does somebody or some small games company ordered Prodos to make unicast miniatures? Or are just words and promises so far?
Eilif wrote: Hey Folks,
I was curious about this game since a buddy of mine picked up some of the figs. Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but can someone satisfy my morbid curiosity and let me know where the game and the kickstarter currently stands.
Hey, welcome aboard. Doesn't matter if you have not read the 179 pages of random rant and hate xD
The game it's currently were Palladium Books left if after the kickstarter, LOL Seriously though, the game is a good game. Fast, fun, not with hundreds of minis (I'm looking at you, tyranids, orcs and goblins, skaven, ...) and minis look cool when painted The negative side of this is that PB left the project on hold for 2 years now? The second wave of minis has not arrived yet and Kevin Simbieda is heck a boss, not comunicating anything valuable to the backers neither the possible customers or new players...
So, you will find a lot of anger and hate regarding RRT.
But there are some of us with active player groups or also doing personal efforts to fulfill the dream of having wave 2 miniatures, through 3D sculpting and shapeways, conversions, moulding, etc
Hope it helps. And I hope you don't run scared after the other negative comments that will follow! LOL
Eilif wrote: Hey Folks, I was curious about this game since a buddy of mine picked up some of the figs. Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but can someone satisfy my morbid curiosity and let me know where the game and the kickstarter currently stands.
Hrm, how to sum this up...
- Campaign finished May 2013. They were allegedly '98% done' - Delivery target was Dec 2013, but PB expressed such confidence that they might even deliver in Oct or Nov. - Jan 2014 they admit it'll have to be done in two waves. - Spring/Summer 2014 wave one goes from design to production. - Wave one begins shipping to NA backers/retail Oct/Nov 2014. - The Rest of the World waits for months, they finally (allegedly) finish delivery of wave 1 in Q1 or Q2'ish (exact isn't really pertinent; they took way too long). - Feb 2015 we see 5 sprue breakdowns for wave 2 figures. - March 2015 at the "Palladium Open House" they announce that they're aiming to deliver wave 2 in late 2015. Obviously this gets missed as well. That eventually shifts to "Q1 or Q2 2016" (there are a bunch of variations here, it's not an exhaustive list), until at Anime North recently someone working with PB states that 2016 is not happening. - June 2015: they post two GIANT 'updates' that don't actually update us on anything, bring the specter of a scale change for future figure lines up as a distraction, and blame/throw under the bus everyone they can while declaring themselves the saviour of anime in north america. - We don't see any progress on wave 2 until Feb/March'ish 2016, literally a year since (four 3D printed prototypes and a resin/metal prototype of a non-game piece that was available as an add on during the campaign). - Allegedly PB have been 'in talks' to 'trim the parts count' for like 1.5-2 years, and frankly I have zero faith in them delivering in 2017, so this '7 month project' has ballooned out to over 3.5 years with no end in sight.
It is, in a word, a clusterfeth. That isn't even touching on the lacking communications, lies (active and in retrospect), and dozens of other aspects that make this the worst experience I've had on Kickstarter, especially with the amount of money they took in and what my friends and I contributed.
Again, this is a *very* brief overview. The particulars are long enough I could write a book about them, from the 'vote' to sell at Gencon to the Customs debacle to "Spartangate" and beyond. It's basically the pinnacle of "making it big with a KS campaign and then pissing away almost all good will and nostalgia they had going for them".
Eilif wrote: Hey Folks,
I was curious about this game since a buddy of mine picked up some of the figs. Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but can someone satisfy my morbid curiosity and let me know where the game and the kickstarter currently stands.
A question sprung to mind while reading it... What happened with Palladium Open House? Has not been a 2016 edition of PBOH? Is it going to be one this year?
Alpharius wrote: That's a pretty good summary - I might add it into the OP, unless anyone objects?
I don't mind. As noted, it's an abridged breakdown, I'm sure we could find a thousand additional bits (big and small) to add to fill it out, but I think that covers the basics at least.
Nesbet wrote: I think you summed all pretty well Forar.
A question sprung to mind while reading it... What happened with Palladium Open House? Has not been a 2016 edition of PBOH? Is it going to be one this year?
Thank you.
The open house isn't a yearly thing. From my reading, it's infrequent, and there was talk that the one in 2015 might be the last (but they might do another some day? Don't ask me, they're the ones who waffled on it).
Eilif wrote: Hey Folks, I was curious about this game since a buddy of mine picked up some of the figs. Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but can someone satisfy my morbid curiosity and let me know where the game and the kickstarter currently stands.
Forar summed up the details nicely. The TLDR version is that it stands uncompleted in practically the same half done position it was in almost two years ago when they delivered the starter. The game itself is decent (but with some quirks and bigger issues that Palladium has completely ignored), the models are ok (the RDF is below average because of the construction, zentraedi are above average), and the followup support is abysmal (no releases in almost two years except for a SINGLE line of errata and two LE special character models with new rules). Just know what you're getting into (see above), don't expect future support in any reasonable time frame, and don't buy new from a store at less than 50% off (or god forbid from Palladium direct at any price). Clearance sales are frequent online and there is even a humorous video of a guy dumpster diving behind a gamestop and finding multiple shrink wrapped robotech boxes just thrown away from the tabletop games store in the same strip mall when they couldn't sell them at clearance even.
Eilif wrote: Hey Folks,
I was curious about this game since a buddy of mine picked up some of the figs. Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but can someone satisfy my morbid curiosity and let me know where the game and the kickstarter currently stands.
Okay, history of everything as short as I can make it.
I am going to skip over all the silly B.S. that goes on like the Gencon vote and stuff or the "scale" change discussion.
<edit> Added spoiler to not be a screen-hog
Spoiler:
April 18 2013 The Kickstarter is launched.
May 20 2013 the Kickstarter got funded: 5,342 backers pledged $1,442,312 "Estimated shipping date: Dec 2013".
I guess we were overdue for a summary, at least it saves scrolling through all those KS "updates".
Lucky I like you guys, that seemed too much like work.
<edit> OR we can have that very nice Forar ninja post (obviously much went on while I was looking things up...)
I keep thinking that those dumpster videos are as fake as reality shows...
Anyways, as noted, you can get the starter box at clearance sales, with discounts or just in ebay for 50-70 usd.
If your friend got the starter box, try the game with him. Seriously, it's fun. With 100 usd you could build quite a decent amount of minis and options for units. Not so many games can say that xD
Nesbet wrote: I keep thinking that those dumpster videos are as fake as reality shows...
If I were a highly-profitable card game shop, being able to legally write down RRT at full MSRP loss vs selling it at market might be a good accounting move.
Also, dumpster diving behind Gamestops has been a youtube video genre for years because the company would throw away copies of games and ancillary products (controllers, headsets, toys, etc) they had too many of without actually destroying them.
Battlescribe update: got the "new" cards to "efalsken" as requested to update the data file.
I inquired if he will get on it soon or he can await the comedy that is my scripting skillz... So at least not everyone dropped RRT, just forgot about it until poked. I was impressed with the fast response so he deserves no harassment from me.
My group plays Mech Attack and Alpha Strike (in 10mm with rebased mechwarrior clix) for our mech fix. I skipped the KS because of the Palladium connection but one of our members had gone in on the kickstarter big-time and hinted that we should maybe try RRT some time.
I don't think he's given it much thought since -what I now know as- the first wave came in as he has tons of other projects and little time. Probably won't invest any of my own cash in this but I have a veritech sprue that I picked up at Adepticon a few years ago. It looks fiddly but cool. Maybe I'll put it together and if it doesn't drive me mad perhaps we'll see about digging into his KS load, which I'm sure he'd be more than happy to divy up.
Alpharius wrote: First post updated with that excellent, brief and, yes, depressing summary of where we are with RRT as of today...
Indeed. Forar has now accomplished more good on the internet than all the Kardashians and Hiltons combined and he did so with his clothes on (hopefully!).
Alpharius wrote: First post updated with that excellent, brief and, yes, depressing summary of where we are with RRT as of today...
Indeed. Forar has now accomplished more good on the internet than all the Kardashians and Hiltons combined and he did so with his clothes on (hopefully!).
I'm not sure we can 100% attest to that last point...
...and I am still shocked at how little (none?) progress has been made on Wave 2 since this whole thing - The Waiting for Wave 2 - started!
Alpharius wrote: First post updated with that excellent, brief and, yes, depressing summary of where we are with RRT as of today...
Indeed. Forar has now accomplished more good on the internet than all the Kardashians and Hiltons combined and he did so with his clothes on (hopefully!).
Nesbet wrote: I keep thinking that those dumpster videos are as fake as reality shows...
Anyways, as noted, you can get the starter box at clearance sales, with discounts or just in ebay for 50-70 usd.
If your friend got the starter box, try the game with him. Seriously, it's fun. With 100 usd you could build quite a decent amount of minis and options for units. Not so many games can say that xD
actually i can think of several games that are much better and just as cheap with many more models to paint and build, RRT's down fall though is the build part, its a pain to do and very easy to just give up on it.
Do you think PB's method of product release is like keeping to one clothing style: because you know in a decade or so it will become trendy again so why the rush?
Forget it.
This has gone on so long even this is not funny anymore, it is getting to be a bit of a reach finding anything meaningful to say.
Maybe we can all check-in and just type "AABSYNT" meaning "alive and breathing, see you next time"... oh look, it says "absent".
I just went into the kickstarter site to see if I could look up the fact that I paid for the MPAs and the Monster. Because it's marked as shipped I can't see that info, unless I'm missing something obvious.
There you can see your pledged items and add ons. It doesn't break down exactly what has been sent by model, but it's more than just 'shipped kthxby'.
"Here are the items included in your pledge:
QTY ITEM
X 55100 Robotech RPG Tactics Main Box Game
X KS9991-A Battle Cry extras Wave One
X KS9991-B Battle Cry extras Wave Two"
Assuming you didn't delete it, you can also search your email for messages from "kickstarter@palladiumbooks", which would have the full list of what you're owed (though again, doesn't break down between the waves).
If you got a Battle Cry, you're getting some MPAs. The MAC-II was a paid add on only.
By their accounts, you have already been sent more 'value' than you pledged for. You ought to think yourself lucky that they deign to consider giving you more, never mind allowing you the privilege of spending MORE money retail, or allowing you dibs on "KS/Con" 'Exclusives'.
By their accounts, you have already been sent more 'value' than you pledged for. You ought to think yourself lucky that they deign to consider giving you more, never mind allowing you the privilege of spending MORE money retail, or allowing you dibs on "KS/Con" 'Exclusives'.
Yea, I'm aware of what they believe.
They, however, are not aware of what I believe.
I've remained fairly passive, but I'm beginning to think I'd rather have invested that elsewhere than in this continually worsening "project".
I believe that there is a special ring of hell reserved for them.
I also believe I should have 'invested' my money elsewhere.
I ALMOST believe I would have had a better time and return on investment throwing my money out of the window onto a crowded street.
I DON'T believe I'll see anything more this year.
I DON'T believe that progress is being made in secret.
I DON'T believe that PB have much of the money left [or if they do, they are using it up fast with all these 'improvements' they are doing to the parts count, mould design, etc.]
Well, it looks like our beliefs are in alignment.
Is this the start of a cult then?
Maybe with a little effort we can give better form to that special place in hell.
Nesbet wrote: if all of your beliefs are aligned, why haven't the US backers aligned yet to sue PB? "Refunds or wave two or nothing!" or something alike?
Because short of getting a class action suit (and even then), it takes money. And I really DON'T feel like throwing even more money away on this fiasco.
Yeah, moving on... nothing to see here.
![[Disk]](/dakkaforum/templates/default/images/icon_disk.gif){kind=icon}
if we do, 
