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Post by: squall018
@RiTides, I know better than to ask what it actually is, as that would be pretty impossible in a game/ world like the one Adam has made. I'll go take a look at the site. I thought I had seen everything but must have missed that one.
@ Albino Squirrel. I can see your point, but I wouldn't get too concerned. Adam has been pretty forthcoming from everything I've seen. I understand there will always be concern with money on the line, but this project seems, at least to me, to be under control. Thats just my two cents though.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
He had produced some previous plastic figures (for the Experiment of Death box set) so he has a pre-existing relationship with them
He's also exploring other options (for example Ed had mentioned he's talked to trollforged), both for the full minis and for parts of them
eg the sword on the plastic twilight knight was a bit bendy, this was in part the material, and in part because it was not designed for plastic.....
The fix for the figures for the KS could be a redesign of tricky parts (the new minis for the KS have been designed with plastic in mind, but some older figures appear as well)
OR manufacture of those parts that don't work well in PVC in an alternative material).
As to packing and shipping, Adam has that experience from running KD, and he is deliberatly not allowing trade in or other complicated stuff so it should be possible.... he can hire in help if needed
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Post by: weeble1000
 Baragash wrote:I wonder if the missus will let me trim back the wedding expenses..... 
Kingdom Death: Monster expansions make excellent groomsmen gifts!
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Post by: Dentry
@OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I don't mean to come across as dismissive, but it's not a big concern of mine how Adam goes about things with regards to production. Pledging into the KS was my initial vote of confidence and support, I'm sure he's not taking these decisions lightly and by his own admission is concerned with providing a great product. I stand by my initial pledge.
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Post by: The Fragile Breath
I have no idea why I think this way, but I actually rather doubt we'll see the Sunstalker during this Kickstarter. Not that I dislike the Sunstalker, or really have any reason behind this, but I think I'd rather see new monsters. Perhaps because I've already seen and oggled previous monsters he's made, so I'd love to oggle new ones?
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Post by: squall018
I would like to see some new monsters as well, but it would probably be easier to use some already sculpted minis. I imagine going through the process to make a brand new ones would be time consuming and this whole project is probably consuming enough of his time. I'm with you in that I'd like to see them, I just wonder how realistic it would be to get more brand new monsters.
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Post by: Alpharius
Aren't the Dung Beetle Knight and Spidicules 'new' monsters?
Along with the Lion, the Watcher, Phoenix, etc.?
I think Adam's had this one planned for a while, so maybe we will get more 'new' monsters - I hope!
Also, we've still go to reach the King reveal, and unlock, too! 
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Post by: Zweischneid
 Alpharius wrote:Aren't the Dung Beetle Knight and Spidicules 'new' monsters?
Along with the Lion, the Watcher, Phoenix, etc.?
I think Adam's had this one planned for a while, so maybe we will get more 'new' monsters - I hope!
Also, we've still go to reach the King reveal, and unlock, too!
Yeah. Except for the Lion. http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/product/white-lion
That said, it's been on the Kingdom Death website for ages that the limited resin stuff was a way to slowly pay/fund its way to Kingdom Death game. Things probably went from vague to specific over time, but the basic notion to make a game like that seems to have been there from the start.. sometime in 2009 or so.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
 Zweischneid wrote: Alpharius wrote:Aren't the Dung Beetle Knight and Spidicules 'new' monsters?
Along with the Lion, the Watcher, Phoenix, etc.?
I think Adam's had this one planned for a while, so maybe we will get more 'new' monsters - I hope!
Also, we've still go to reach the King reveal, and unlock, too!
Yeah. Except for the Lion. http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/product/white-lion
That said, it's been on the Kingdom Death website for ages that the limited resin stuff was a way to slowly pay/fund its way to Kingdom Death game. Things probably went from vague to specific over time, but the basic notion to make a game like that seems to have been there from the start.. sometime in 2009 or so.
There was a comment (sorry, I'm not sure where anymore, it's sorta blended together) that the existing lion was one of his first miniatures, and the technology used to print it left it with more printing artifacts then Adam was comfortable with. So it's possible that the lion in the actual game will not be identical to the lion previously released. Automatically Appended Next Post: A comment on the campaign site led me to the deviantArt page of Danny Cruz, which has some very, very interesting stetches.
An early version of the Lion Knight, as well as the Looooong evolution of the Forge God and some other miniatures that I have seen over time. Very interesting to see some of the concept artists other then Lam, some really great stuff in there. (Some really creepy stuff too, FYI.)
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Post by: Grot 6
I really like this game.
Even more so with that beetle guy.
Which one should I get that would be able to be used in the game at the later date? I'd like to get a sample guy before i make a final decision.
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Post by: endtransmission
Zweischneid wrote: kilcin wrote:@Endtransmission I'm wondering if you are referring to Sedition Wars because the "brains" behind that is Studio McVey which is based in the UK and sending off the European orders while CMoN does the US. So hardly a distributor for CMoN in the UK.
Yeah, but they also seem to offer no-import-VAT shipping on Soda Pop / Relic Knights. So it looks like they have someone (might just be McVey returning the favour?)
CMoN are also offering UK/ EU shipping for the Cadwallon game as well, so it seems like they have organised a permanent EU distribution channel for this sort of thing. If Adam is boxing everything up himself, then I completely understand not trying to jump onto this.
It's a bit sad to see people backing out because CMoN have been mentioned, or the fact that because it's making money it doesn't "need" the funding. I'm not quite sure how it's Adam's fault for coming up with something that is so popular? 
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Post by: Grot 6
 endtransmission wrote: Zweischneid wrote: kilcin wrote:@Endtransmission I'm wondering if you are referring to Sedition Wars because the "brains" behind that is Studio McVey which is based in the UK and sending off the European orders while CMoN does the US. So hardly a distributor for CMoN in the UK.
Yeah, but they also seem to offer no-import-VAT shipping on Soda Pop / Relic Knights. So it looks like they have someone (might just be McVey returning the favour?)
CMoN are also offering UK/ EU shipping for the Cadwallon game as well, so it seems like they have organised a permanent EU distribution channel for this sort of thing. If Adam is boxing everything up himself, then I completely understand not trying to jump onto this.
It's a bit sad to see people backing out because CMoN have been mentioned, or the fact that because it's making money it doesn't "need" the funding. I'm not quite sure how it's Adam's fault for coming up with something that is so popular?
Sad has nothing to do with it.
It is not about Adam at all, it is the issue of CMON being a little too greedy and acting as if they are just being altruistic, when they are multimillionaires over projects that they actually did a shoddy job of silent partnering.
In my mind that is disingenuous to the point of insulting.
Be it attitude, or implied arrogence, CMON rubs people the wrong way, and I am one of them. Especially in light that they reap over several million dollars over projects, and some of the- how shall we say -post actions have been questionable to the point where I believe that they are not using all the money for the project that they posted project for.
As I said before, I absolutly love the game to the point where this is an honest crisis of concious to me.I WANT this game, but not if CMON oozed in and does what they did with the other projects. WHY exactly am I giving someone money if all they are going to do is to put a name on it, and act like its fried gold?
CMOR already HAS the facilities to do this project, yet they are using this site as a prepaid store.
The explanation given doesn't wash in common sense either.
Supposedly, all CMON is doing is "Lending name recognition". YET they already sell KD figures on thier site, and seem to have special access. If not for the production, then for the advertising.
As I said, that kind of an attitude is one that rubs me the wrong way. Especially when you are doing one thing, and it is turing out that you are actually doing something else entirly.
Then there is the point of a bunch of these.... new backers in there. It makes me question the validity of the funding of the project, or is it that someone else is using questionable sock monkey accounts to fund the project, then later they will pick it up as thier own and sell it, themselves- thereby they reap the rewards that a single guy is going through the pains for, without having to lift a finger?
It is just me. But-
I have a bad feeling itch when it comes to CMON.
And in light of how they treated Dark Age, it is not unfounded.
And yeah, thats my issue. (If your offended- sorry, but thats how I feel.)
And to be honest- I have my money in the till, yet again, on grounds that I went back and am holding exactly where I left off at, but I am not feeling good about the project from some standpoints.
The option is always there to prove me wrong and change my mind, though.
Its about making money, I get that. I don't have to like it, but you don't have to rub my face in it, either.
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
Some interesting issues raised over the last page or two. I'll admit that I've no idea about any of the CMON stuff that people are talking about (Dark Ages?), but it seems to be stirring up some strong posts.
Sort of reaching my saturation point with this KS at the moment, I'll keep my pledge as it is and just have to decide which expansions I really want to get at the end. I don't think I can justify getting it all sent over at once!
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Post by: kingdomdeath
@Grot 6,
Please allow me to directly address my relationship with Coolminiornot. While I understand your feelings, I cannot comment on your opinions directly. However, I am certainly happy to be as open and honest about myself, Kingdom Death & CMON.
I share an online retail partnership with CMON. They have not invested in Kingdom Death or myself, nor do they own the collective intellectual property in anyway. Over the last 3 years we have built up a relationship that is still fully confined to online retail only.
Currently I have only two partners. CMON & Full Metal Planet in japan. I have been approached by many retailers and I have even followed up myself with some of them. I tried to establish a relationship with both the Warstore and E-figures.com ( a miniature distro company ). Neither of these worked out because I have a very speciality product. I create small runs of very high end resin miniatures and I could not provide them with the volume or the discount they required. Cmon & Full Metal planet understand my needs as a one man operation trying to produce the absolute highest quality product experience he can. I offer them the exact same small discount and both of them have the same privileges and access to my available stock.
I also worked for a short while with Maelstrom games and I regret not doing more research in regards to the operation before I agreed. If there are any KD fans out there that orders my product from Maelstorm please contact me and I will personally make amends.
Resin production is expensive. I also believe that artists should be paid a healthy wage for their creative services. The cost of producing a Kingdom Death miniature is extremely high and it is very time consuming. Then the cost of each unit is also very high. Not every retailer will be sympathetic to this or understand that restocks can take monthes and not just days.
CMON has approached me many times with their publishing arrangement. I of course am not at liberty to go into the details of what it is, but I can tell you its extremely generous. Significantly more so then any other publisher I have spoken to.
My commitment is to the vision and excellence of the full experience that is Kingdom Death : Monster. I will not cut any corners nor take any partnership shortcuts if it impacts the quality in even the slightest way possible. I also do not want to bring in any partnerships that may further complicate my ability to make sure every backer gets the rewards they pledged for. In some cases this does not work out in my favor, as many international fans are upset at the shipping fee this requires. However if I am to involve an outside party, instantly things get more complicated. This means that potentially thousands of units would be shipped somewhere over seas where I have zero domain and no control over what gets packed into peoples boxes. And you know what? I don't really like that.
I've personally packed and shipped around 5,000 orders to people around the world over the last 3 years. It is a tremendous undertaking. I very much enjoy it as I like being involved in every tiny detail of the day to day… but there are some much larger responsibilities on the horizon and I need to plan for the logistics of packing / shipping many many game boxes! It's both incredible and exciting but if managing a fulfillment center absorbs all my time, I won't have the capacity to do the other things I love. Mainly the creative side, working with artists and sculptors and writing up game content.
At this point and time, CMON's involvement with the kickstarter is just, very limited marketing support. ( Actually the agreement was 4 email blasts and they already have gone above and beyond that! ) There is a chance that they will be helping me with fulfillment as I do not have the infrastructure setup at this time to handle it. However if I feel or evaluate that this will, in some even tiny way, impact the quality or reward deliverability, I will not do it. As a product owner, I am obsessed with every aspect of the "experience" it has to be perfect and anything less is not worth striving for.
In regards to a future publishing relationship with CMON, this can go a lot of ways. I am flirting with avoiding going into major distribution. There are many reasons for this and its not the time or place to bring them up, however I an say that it is because of my commitment to both quality and making sure the artists on the team are well compensated. At this time I am simply unsure what the best move for the property is. I strive to deliver the best I possibly can and to raise the established quality bar when its possible. That leave one with a lot to consider as they carefully take each step.
Kickstarter is a strange thing and as the pledged amount raises, so does my responsibility and the projects options. I take none of this lightly and while my friends and family congratulate me I sadly cannot celebrate as there is a staggering amount of work I must meet head on and expectations I must surpass. This project is my ode to the games I love and I am putting the very depths of my heart into every little bit of it. I will not compromise and I will not creatively restrict myself or the artists that work on the project in any shape or form.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
Adam, thank you so much for taking the time to communicate with the community, it's much appreciated!
Whether your extensive answer is satisfactory to people with issues I cannot say, but one thing that becomes crystal clear from your situation is the scale of the task ahead of you. Looking at Kicktraq, it's very likely that (presuming steady growth and the usual ending uptick), it's entirely possible that in autumn of 2013, Kingdom Death (that is, you) will be in a position to pack and ship as many orders in a short time as through the entirety of the rest of KD's existence.
Don't envy you that job, heh.
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Post by: squall018
Thanks for taking the time for clarification, Adam. Now i'm looking foward to hitting the 700k stretch goal which may very well happen later today!
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Post by: DaveC
So the Holiday White Speaker Nico now comes with a promo "holiday" settlement event card according to the KS homepage artwork.
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Post by: Alpharius
A nice bonus there - should get a few more to commit, thereby driving up the pledges and making it better for all!
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
So, wait a minute. If I understand this correctly, Adam currently has no idea how he is going to get the game produced and have the orders fulfilled? He doesn't have any partners lined up to do this? That significantly decreases my confidence that he will actually deliver what he is promising. And it sounds like he is considering packing up thousands of boxes of the game, with tens of thousands of miniatures and hundreds of thousands of cards, all by himself. This gives me absolutely no confidence in his ability to deliver on his promises. That sounds borderline delusional.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Albino Squirrel wrote:So, wait a minute. If I understand this correctly, Adam currently has no idea how he is going to get the game produced and have the orders fulfilled? He doesn't have any partners lined up to do this? That significantly decreases my confidence that he will actually deliver what he is promising. And it sounds like he is considering packing up thousands of boxes of the game, with tens of thousands of miniatures and hundreds of thousands of cards, all by himself. This gives me absolutely no confidence in his ability to deliver on his promises. That sounds borderline delusional.
I fully expect that, short of a miracle, it'll be a couple months late, but I'm fine with that...
Regarding packing, presumably the boxes/expansions will be done in a factory, not by hand, as it's not only insane, but inefficient, to have one person doing that...
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Post by: grefven
 spiralingcadaver wrote:Albino Squirrel wrote:So, wait a minute. If I understand this correctly, Adam currently has no idea how he is going to get the game produced and have the orders fulfilled? He doesn't have any partners lined up to do this? That significantly decreases my confidence that he will actually deliver what he is promising. And it sounds like he is considering packing up thousands of boxes of the game, with tens of thousands of miniatures and hundreds of thousands of cards, all by himself. This gives me absolutely no confidence in his ability to deliver on his promises. That sounds borderline delusional.
I fully expect that, short of a miracle, it'll be a couple months late, but I'm fine with that...
Regarding packing, presumably the boxes/expansions will be done in a factory, not by hand, as it's not only insane, but inefficient, to have one person doing that...
This doesn't sound too good, and a couple of months late, then we might be talking about a year and a half before getting any items.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Funny enough, Kickstarter itself feels the need to address this!
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/is-lateness-failure
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Post by: keas66
It takes as long as it takes is my view . I am backing the kickstarter because I love his idea . Interesting article on CNN business today about how majority of Kickstarters arrive late and how even Kickstarter is trying to make folks realize it is not just an online shopfront .
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
grefven wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote:Albino Squirrel wrote:So, wait a minute. If I understand this correctly, Adam currently has no idea how he is going to get the game produced and have the orders fulfilled? He doesn't have any partners lined up to do this? That significantly decreases my confidence that he will actually deliver what he is promising. And it sounds like he is considering packing up thousands of boxes of the game, with tens of thousands of miniatures and hundreds of thousands of cards, all by himself. This gives me absolutely no confidence in his ability to deliver on his promises. That sounds borderline delusional.
I fully expect that, short of a miracle, it'll be a couple months late, but I'm fine with that...
Regarding packing, presumably the boxes/expansions will be done in a factory, not by hand, as it's not only insane, but inefficient, to have one person doing that...
This doesn't sound too good, and a couple of months late, then we might be talking about a year and a half before getting any items.
I don't know what you're talking about/what you think I was saying.
I was saying that, given its success, as I've seen with other very successful kickstarters, I expect a realistic delay, and that an established (though small) operation won't screw up immensely.
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Post by: RiTides
 Buzzsaw wrote:Adam, thank you so much for taking the time to communicate with the community, it's much appreciated!
Whether your extensive answer is satisfactory to people with issues I cannot say, but one thing that becomes crystal clear from your situation is the scale of the task ahead of you. Looking at Kicktraq, it's very likely that (presuming steady growth and the usual ending uptick), it's entirely possible that in autumn of 2013, Kingdom Death (that is, you) will be in a position to pack and ship as many orders in a short time as through the entirety of the rest of KD's existence.
Don't envy you that job, heh.
I too really appreciate the thorough response.
However, from what you said about fulfillment and packing center, etc, it sounds as if you've been leaning towards having CMON do this for some time, and are even planning on it, unless something changes.
This is fine, I just wish you'd been upfront about that aspect. It makes it much more like a Sedition Wars type campaign on the back end. Which again, is fine. I do wonder, though, if the idea was to avoid "CMON Kickstarter fatigue" by not mentioning that they will likely be doing fulfillment at the start.
Facts are good, thank you for the informative post on your (still evolving) plans! More information sooner is Always better, so it's good to reveal this now instead of after the campaign ends.
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
@ Mr Poots. Thanks for the informative and detailed post, that's the sort of thing that goes a long way in my book.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
A commenter on the campaign page (Matt Dorangricchia) compiled this list of what is now in the basic game;
Here's what I've got for what you get for a Survivor level pledge with no extras.
Base Game
27 ( + 12 ) = 39 Total, unique highly detailed plastic miniatures ( following this is a quick list of the miniature break down )
Full Color Story & Rule Book (Kingsmen Painting Tutorial added @ $625K)
2' x 3' Game board
6, 10 Sided Dice
1 6 Sided Hit Location Die
100 2"x2" Gear Cards
75+ Monster AI Cards
75+ Monster Hit Location Cards
75+ Resource Cards
25 Innovation Cards
10 Location Tiles
Survivor Record Sheets
Settlement Record Sheets
10 Stone Face Base Inserts
Miniatures included in the base game:
4 Starting Survivor miniatures
4 Armor Kits: rawhide, lion, leather, phoenix. Each kit is two female and two male models with interchangeable parts.
7 Monsters - Lion, Phoenix, Antelope, Butcher, Kingsmen, Kings Hand, Watcher
Upgrades to every game box:
+ Unarmored armor kit, two male and two female miniatures (55k)
+ All new Lantern armor kit, two male and two female miniatures (140k)
+ All new Fur Armor kit, two male and two female miniatures ( 285k)
+ Two New Weapons for the Lion Armor Kit (350k)
+Stone Face Base Inserts +$10
Upgrades to Survivor eligible game boxes:
+ 1 extra Rawhide armor kits, two female and two male (unlocked @ 80k)
+ 1 Plastic Phoenix (unlocked @105k)
+ 1 Plastic Watcher (unlocked @185k)
+ 1 extra Phoenix armor kits, two female and two male (unlocked @200k)
+ A regiment of Kingsmen, x5 models (unlocked @$225k)
+ 1 plastic Paul the Survivor (unlocked @275k)
+ 1 extra Lion armor kits, two female and two male (unlocked @350K)
+ 1 plastic Aya the Survivor (unlocked @400K)
+ Added content/extra heads for Adam and Anna (unlocked @420K)
+ 4 Starting Survivor Heads (unlocked @475k)
I think that's everything. Awesome amount of content for the pledge!
I would only add to that exhaustive list the reminder that the game basic pledge is $100, and Survivor level is $155.
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Post by: squall018
only about 2,600$ away from the Spiducles stretch goal. Its been a pretty slow day, but I imagine we should hit that by the end of the day. Any guesses as to whats next?
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Post by: Grot 6
Thank you for your response. I appreceate your position, and hope it goes well for you.
My issues/ concerns with the project are that you will end up having to rely on CMON to the extent that they are eventually going to take over the property and you end up outgunned and overwhelmed by a corperate entity.
One that on the surface seems quite happy on riding coat tails of one or two man operations who are struggleing through the actions, then taking credit where it isn't due on the conclusions of popular kickstarter projects.
If my issues with this project are unreasonable, I'm sorry to have brought them up.
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Post by: grefven
 Grot 6 wrote:Thank you for your response. I appreceate your position, and hope it goes well for you.
My issues/ concerns with the project are that you will end up having to rely on CMON to the extent that they are eventually going to take over the property and you end up outgunned and overwhelmed by a corperate entity.
One that on the surface seems quite happy on riding coat tails of one or two man operations who are struggleing through the actions, then taking credit where it isn't due on the conclusions of popular kickstarter projects.
If my issues with this project are unreasonable, I'm sorry to have brought them up.
They sound quite unreasonable to me. It would be like saying that I won't support the KD KS because the world will end 21th december. 
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Post by: Lansirill
Okay, I'm sorely tempted to reply to the 'too big for their britches' comments but, meh, why? (Well, except to reply by saying that I'm not replying... I have to give my compulsions *some* love.)
I'm digging the dung beetle, although I have two concerns about it:
The detail on the knight's armor is great, but I worry if it's the kind of detail that won't translate well into plastic. It's already fairly soft and faint, which looks good, but I wonder if plastic will leave it looking simply uneven rather than... veined/cracked
The face on the dung ball is killer, but what about the back? The body of the Gorm was a real deal breaker for me, and I wonder if the ball will be as mediocre. The knight itself is solid enough that I don't think it'd stop me from buying, but the quality of most of the KD stuff is high enough that any slips *really* show.
I'm pretty sure Santa Speaker Nico is going to be joining my pledge. I seem to be liking about 1 out of every 2 or 3 of the pinups that come out (in the KS and previously) and this is one of the hits for me. Maybe I can make a KD-themed nativity scene. Hm... how are we supposed to send Adam wishlist items again?
Can't wait to see some close-ups of Spiderman. Looks like it should be some quality back-of-the-skull horror.
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Post by: Grot 6
grefven wrote: Grot 6 wrote:Thank you for your response. I appreceate your position, and hope it goes well for you.
My issues/ concerns with the project are that you will end up having to rely on CMON to the extent that they are eventually going to take over the property and you end up outgunned and overwhelmed by a corperate entity.
One that on the surface seems quite happy on riding coat tails of one or two man operations who are struggleing through the actions, then taking credit where it isn't due on the conclusions of popular kickstarter projects.
If my issues with this project are unreasonable, I'm sorry to have brought them up.
They sound quite unreasonable to me. It would be like saying that I won't support the KD KS because the world will end 21th december.
Your post needs explanation. I don't get how it is supposed to be clever, entertaining, or funny.
How so?
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Post by: Catyrpelius
Grot 6 wrote:Thank you for your response. I appreceate your position, and hope it goes well for you.
My issues/ concerns with the project are that you will end up having to rely on CMON to the extent that they are eventually going to take over the property and you end up outgunned and overwhelmed by a corperate entity.
One that on the surface seems quite happy on riding coat tails of one or two man operations who are struggleing through the actions, then taking credit where it isn't due on the conclusions of popular kickstarter projects.
If my issues with this project are unreasonable, I'm sorry to have brought them up.
Personally I'd rather see CMoN handle the back end of the project then see it get lost to delays due to the good intentions of a one man operation.
I don't think your issues are unreasonable. Unfortunatly if you dig deep enough into almost any entity you can find some dirt.
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Post by: BrookM
Only problem I have with CMoN regarding their projects is a severe lack of post-project communications.
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Post by: grefven
Grot 6 wrote:grefven wrote: Grot 6 wrote:Thank you for your response. I appreceate your position, and hope it goes well for you.
My issues/ concerns with the project are that you will end up having to rely on CMON to the extent that they are eventually going to take over the property and you end up outgunned and overwhelmed by a corperate entity.
One that on the surface seems quite happy on riding coat tails of one or two man operations who are struggleing through the actions, then taking credit where it isn't due on the conclusions of popular kickstarter projects.
If my issues with this project are unreasonable, I'm sorry to have brought them up.
They sound quite unreasonable to me. It would be like saying that I won't support the KD KS because the world will end 21th december.
Your post needs explanation. I don't get how it is supposed to be clever, entertaining, or funny.
How so?
There is nothing that would indicate KD to have to rely on CMoN so much that they will take over the property. KD has successfully build up its business over several years without CMoN and it now turnover enough money for Adam to dedicate fulltime on it. To me, you are just jumping on your own conclutions based on nothing but your own predictions without anything substantial to back it up. Thus, your issues sound to me quite unreasonable, which also my saying that I wouldn't support the KD KS because of the world will end 21th december. Just because you are saying something doesn't make it true, you know.
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Post by: RiTides
 BrookM wrote:Only problem I have with CMoN regarding their projects is a severe lack of post-project communications.
Right, so this arrangement may in fact be the best of both worlds
I just wish the info had come out sooner / been laid out from the start. But now that it's out, imo, that's the end of it.
But I also think it will be good to see how many KS CMON is fulfilling (along with how many extended rewards into next year they need to fulfill from things like the later phases of Zombiecide, Sedition Wars, Guilds of Cadwallon, and the rumored upcoming Confrontation Kickstarter of theirs.
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Post by: Zweischneid
 RiTides wrote:
But I also think it will be good to see how many KS CMON is fulfilling (along with how many extended rewards into next year they need to fulfill from things like the later phases of Zombiecide, Sedition Wars, Guilds of Cadwallon, and the rumored upcoming Confrontation Kickstarter of theirs.
No need to bother with the rumored ones. CMON's officially doing it for Rivet Wars, as well as their own Wrath of Kings in early 2013. Probably more. And those are only the ones where the "news" have been released.
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Post by: Krinsath
Yeah, even with the explanation it was a fairly weak analogy on the end of the world.
Grot has reasons for not backing the KickStarter, and while you can feel free to disagree with him on the strength of those reasons at the end of the day the value of a project is in the eye of the beholder. It's his money to do with as he sees fit, and he has said that this project doesn't fit any longer. How an individual spends their money is up to the subjective truths of the individual, not an objective threshold of "it's ok to pull your money out when..." that we all agree on. Adam cannot force people to buy his product, nor should he run around chasing every backer he can. Some people just don't want to be involved for whatever reason and that is their right.
Would it have been better in this case to just withdraw backing without saying anything? Yes, especially since it appears to be a case where there's nothing to be done to fix the issue. CMON is involved with the KS now, no matter how tangentially, and if their involvement at all is a deal-breaker then the deal is broken. Leave and move on. If it had been something that Adam might have been able to correct that would make it work, such as letting you swap armor kits, then it's worth posting. Adam has said that example isn't feasible for him, but if enough people said that they would pledge or enlarge their pledge then it might sway him to look into options.
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Post by: Dentry
Let's continue on with the relevant topic.
With that in mind, there was a post that took a stab at describing more potential game elements on the KS comments section. It's an interesting read:
Götz Kirchhauser
@people who want to know more about gameplay - I got bored and took a closer look at the video again. I already figured out, how arranging the gear cards influences the survivors abilities (In case you missed that click on my profile and search my comments) Adam confirmed that one. I identified another color for the little squares that do the customizing. We also have green - so that's a minimum of 3 different colors now.
There were said to be two different kinds of resources: basic and monster-specific. Examples for basic resources: hide, bone, monster organ. Example for monster specific resources: white fur (from the white lion)
There are several things that can be done with resources:
1. some are consumable (e.g. monster organ - I have no idea, what consuming them does, other, that there is a 10% chance of catching a parasite)
2. you can craft gear with them at different settlement locations
3. you can upgrade (and presumably build) said settlement locations (Not all settlement locations seem to be upgradable)
4. you can trade them in for innovation cards at the Lantern Hoard
Settlement locations:
The basic game comes at least with:
1. Lantern Hoard kind of hard to read but it seems you can trade resources for innovation here.
2. Organ grinder seems to be the most basic craft - fashions trinkets out of organs and sometimes one other resource. Location is upgradable.
3. Skinworker - fashions 5 different pieces of rawhide armor out of one hide each as well as a weapon (whip) and a trinket (drum) out of one hide and one bone each. Location is upgradable.
4. Bone Smith - fashions 3 different hand to hand weapons, one ranged weapon and one peace of armor (skull helmet) out of bone (and in some cases one other resource). Location is upgradable. Interesting: The helmet can be fashioned out of either 2x bone or one skull.
5. Leatherworker - can produce leather (hard to read but presumably out of skin resources), can fashion 5 different pieces of leather armor out of leather (and in some cases other resources), as well as a shield, a weapon and a trinket. Appears not to be upgradable.
6. Catarium - this is where armor and other equipment is crafted out of lion specific resources. Again, we get 5 pieces of Lion Armor and 8 weapons/trinkets. Appears not to be upgradable.
Gear:
There seem to be 4 types of gear: armor, weapons, shields and trinkets (that's what I call them). There seem to be different classes of weapons e.g. dagger and sword. There are also ranged weapons. I have no idea, if there is a limit how many weapons a survivor my carry. There are 5 locations for armor arms, legs, torso, waist and head. Presumably only one piece of armor can be worn per location. There seems to be no limit to trinkets (other than the maximum of 9 gear cards). Probably a survivor can use only one shield. I identified an Item to be a cloak - no idea, if that counts as a piece of armor or a trinket.
Adam stated that the items in a survivors possession auto repair after a showdown - HOWEVER, there are items that are labeled as frail. These items have a chance to be destroyed in an encounter. After a showdown roll a D10 and if you fail the roll specified on the gear card the item is destroyed (discard the gear card)
As you all can see, there's quite a bit of information, if you only look hard enough
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Post by: squall018
That is quite a bit of information that I would NEVER have gathered just from looking at some videos. Thanks for posting that!
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Post by: kingdomdeath
@Albino Squirrel
I have several partners lined up, but I have yet to finalize anything. I must ensure that fulfillment happens smoothly and that means doing a lot of homework both before during and after the kickstarter.
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Post by: Alpharius
Considering the time you've allotted yourself (not due to ship until November 2013!), I have confidence in you on this!
EDIT:
Also, $700K hit!
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Post by: squall018
Just saw we hit 700k. That was quick!
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Post by: Fafnir
RiTides wrote: Buzzsaw wrote:Adam, thank you so much for taking the time to communicate with the community, it's much appreciated!
Whether your extensive answer is satisfactory to people with issues I cannot say, but one thing that becomes crystal clear from your situation is the scale of the task ahead of you. Looking at Kicktraq, it's very likely that (presuming steady growth and the usual ending uptick), it's entirely possible that in autumn of 2013, Kingdom Death (that is, you) will be in a position to pack and ship as many orders in a short time as through the entirety of the rest of KD's existence.
Don't envy you that job, heh.
I too really appreciate the thorough response.
However, from what you said about fulfillment and packing center, etc, it sounds as if you've been leaning towards having CMON do this for some time, and are even planning on it, unless something changes.
This is fine, I just wish you'd been upfront about that aspect. It makes it much more like a Sedition Wars type campaign on the back end. Which again, is fine. I do wonder, though, if the idea was to avoid "CMON Kickstarter fatigue" by not mentioning that they will likely be doing fulfillment at the start.
Facts are good, thank you for the informative post on your (still evolving) plans! More information sooner is Always better, so it's good to reveal this now instead of after the campaign ends.
I think that using CMON wasn't really something that he intended on doing until the KS became so ridiculously large. I would imagine that, had it stayed to the small level he expected, he could have taken care of it personally.
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Post by: Dentry
Been working on a pledge calculator and decided to post it. Let me know if there's anything missing or if you have any suggestions.
I'd also recommend downloading it to make changes.
You can find it here.
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Post by: DaveC
Spidicules is in $40 expansion with the Silk Armour kit.
Next up Savior at $725k with a $40 expansion to fund her that should get done today
Adam seems to be making these graphics longer and longer
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Post by: scarletsquig
That's spidiculous!
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Post by: Absolutionis
I love the dichotomy between the horrific angler-spider-man-abomination and the pretty-looking Arabian Noble silk armor.
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Post by: DaveC
Creator Kingdom Death 1 minute ago
The 725K goal will be a survivor level upgrade! There is also a bit more behind it, but I'll explain when the time comes.
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Post by: Alpharius
Excellent!
I can appreciate another 'freebie', and so can my wallet!
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Post by: lucasbuffalo
A bit sad to not see a silky pin up :(
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Post by: cincydooley
Can anyone save and relink these pictures? For whatever reason, they're no longer working for me on KS. Different image host?
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Post by: Zweischneid
Going by the previous patterns, I am pretty sure that this is what the 725K goal will be.
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Post by: cincydooley
Just for clarification: All Pin-Ups will be available later, correct? I really have to put a hard limit on this thing for myself or it will spiral into oblivion.
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Post by: Alpharius
I think most of the Pin Ups from this campaign will be available later, but best to check to be sure.
Also, it looks as if the $725K model is the "Savior", and not a Spidecules Pin Up?
So, this model?
Seems to match the silhouette...
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Post by: Fafnir
Zweischneid wrote:
Going by the previous patterns, I am pretty sure that this is what the 725K goal will be.
Nope. The 724k goal is most definitely a reissue of the old Saviour model. What's more, this model and whatever expansion is included with it will be automatically included in any Survivor packages at no additional cost.
This is the Saviour.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Ahh. To bad. Would've loved a "free" pin-up
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Post by: The Fragile Breath
Perhaps the silk armor pin-up could be free with Spidicules like the Regeneration Suit with the Gorm expansion? It's a stretch, I'll admit, but you never know. On the topic of Spidicules, the expansion looks awesome, loving the silk armor.
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Post by: greywulf
I'm guessing the pinup will be coming at the 750k mark.
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Post by: grefven
I am a bit disappointed if it is the Savior that is the next stretch goal. Why not use the money from this KS to actually commission new miniatures? There is a year until the expected shipping, and so much more could be done rather than re-using older items.
This stretch is a bit meh for me. :/
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Post by: Alpharius
grefven wrote:I am a bit disappointed if it is the Savior that is the next stretch goal. Why not use the money from this KS to actually commission new miniatures? There is a year until the expected shipping, and so much more could be done rather than re-using older items.
This stretch is a bit meh for me. :/
Possibly because there's already a lot of 'new' in here, and while he's given himself what appears to be a lot of time to meet all the goals and the ship date, he doesn't want to stretch too far and then have a large failure to met demand, expectations, etc.?
Having said that - I'd love to see 'new' things too, and I'd bet we've got a few more of those to go between now and January 7th!
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Post by: Lt. Coldfire
We still got the King to come. He should be new, eh?
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Post by: greywulf
grefven wrote:I am a bit disappointed if it is the Savior that is the next stretch goal. Why not use the money from this KS to actually commission new miniatures? There is a year until the expected shipping, and so much more could be done rather than re-using older items.
This stretch is a bit meh for me. :/
My impression now is that Adam's major stretch goals are at 50k each. Anything in between is a minor addition. Each monster has been followed by a pinup. I'm guessing the next 50k, 750k, will be the spider pinup.
Unless Adam is changing up his system, there will be a new mini at 750k.
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Post by: recruittons
I am crazy happy with the Savior being on offer next. She was part of my wishlist and is one of my absolute favorite sculpts from KD (that isn't on the baroque/horror end of things) Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, screw it. With Spidicules, I'm at 281. I'm now a Herald of Death
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Post by: Makaleth
 recruittons wrote:I am crazy happy with the Savior being on offer next. She was part of my wishlist and is one of my absolute favorite sculpts from KD (that isn't on the baroque/horror end of things)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, screw it. With Spidicules, I'm at 281. I'm now a Herald of Death
You need to get to $300 for that... don't worry, you'll be there soon!
I am dropping some of the pin-ups as I want the discounted expansions... will get the pin-ups slowly later (And want to see quality of the plastic before deciding if I want the resin ones).
Other than Lioness... she will be had in resin!
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Post by: recruittons
Sorry, I meant I was already at 281, so I just bumped up to $301 to get Herald of Death. I'll find SOMETHING to justify the little bit extra
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Post by: Makaleth
There is always the Holiday NICO model, I assume this will be quite limited compared to the other runs (which is saying something)
I doubt resin though
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Post by: recruittons
Eh, pin-ups aren't really my bag, but I'm all but certain there will be at least 1 more expansion that I won't want to miss. I might end up higher than $301, but, for now, it's a very very soft line on what I'm willing to spend.
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Post by: mwnciboo
That Spidercule is going to be Epic for Pre-Heresy battles like the Murder Campaign, or the other XENO's races mentioned in the early Horus Heresy Books! EPIC.
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Post by: N'Ferno
I'll have to raise my CC limit for this....Being in Europe and wanting ALL THE THINGS is going to set me back a loooot of monies...
Totally worth it.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
New pledge level from Adam for those only wanting optional add on minis
$11 Options Only - If you are only interested in the options, you must select this as your reward to cover priority shipping. Add each option to your total pledge amount. A post campaign survey will be sent out to confirm your reward selections. ( This also includes the digital artbook! )
International backers add $24 shipping
Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and we hit the 725K stretch just after Adam went to sleep so we have a long wait to see what the savior brings to the game
and what's next !
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Post by: IK-Painter
I really want to pledge this kickstarter as the minis are just off the chain! :-)
The only concern I have regarding the figures are some of the noticeable gaps I've seen on some of the pictures - I'm looking at you Gorm - especially on the wrists.
Also, will plastic cement work on these, or is it the kind of weird resin/plastic hybrid PP uses?
But this would be my first kickstarter, so I'm not sure how to do this. Do I pledge a fixed amount to the kickstarter and later select my rewards - or can I add to my pledge, once the kickstarter is over? This would be important to me, as new rewards are unlocked almost on a daily basis.
Cheers!
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Post by: Krinsath
 IK-Painter wrote:But this would be my first kickstarter, so I'm not sure how to do this. Do I pledge a fixed amount to the kickstarter and later select my rewards - or can I add to my pledge, once the kickstarter is over? This would be important to me, as new rewards are unlocked almost on a daily basis.
You pledge for a certain amount, which as an international customer (based on the flag icon) should include the shipping fee as well. You can change that amount at anytime up to the end of the KickStarter (i.e. - January 7th in this case). It appears in this case Adam is trying to cut down on the post-KickStarter billing so he might be a little more stringent on additions than some of the other KickStarters such as DreamForge or Reaper or Mantic. Not to say you can't change it if things get bonkers at the end and you can't be around, but the more people get their stuff right up front the more time he can put into getting everything to backers on time.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
IK-Painter wrote:I really want to pledge this kickstarter as the minis are just off the chain! :-)
The only concern I have regarding the figures are some of the noticeable gaps I've seen on some of the pictures - I'm looking at you Gorm - especially on the wrists.
Also, will plastic cement work on these, or is it the kind of weird resin/plastic hybrid PP uses?
But this would be my first kickstarter, so I'm not sure how to do this. Do I pledge a fixed amount to the kickstarter and later select my rewards - or can I add to my pledge, once the kickstarter is over? This would be important to me, as new rewards are unlocked almost on a daily basis.
Cheers!
The minis shown are all resin masters so will have to come apart again to be used for mould making (so Adam couldn't fill the gaps/glue stuff like you'd do if you were making them yourself)
He hasn't finalised what plastic he's going to use yet but it's likely you'll need superglue
(his Experiment of Death was hard PVC, so not GW polystrene or PP resin/plastic, but he's also talking to Ed Fortea at Trollforged as well so nothing is certain)
Pledge for what you want on the KS now. You can add extra cash (or remove it or cancel your pledge) up to the point the KS ends in January eg pledge for the basic game & shipping ($145), decide you want to add the gorm expansion (new pledge 185), decide you need a pinup as well (new pledge 200) etc
Once the KS ends your CC is charged (and eventually you'll get a survey asking what your extra cash was for)
At the moment it's looking like you won't be able to add extra cash after the KS (as in many other big projects), as Adam is just one person and wants to keep things as simple as possible Automatically Appended Next Post: oh yes, if you're planing on spending almost $300 (including shipping) it's worth making it up to $300 as that gets you two free game expansions
The Manhunter ($15) and The Lion Knight & Court ($25)
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Post by: RiTides
Note the $300 includes shipping cost (so international backers need to only "spend" $255 on figures to get the freebies).
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Post by: greywulf
IK-Painter wrote:
The only concern I have regarding the figures are some of the noticeable gaps I've seen on some of the pictures - I'm looking at you Gorm - especially on the wrists.
Gaps will be easy to fill with green stuff or any kind of modeling putty. I've even been guilty of just filling gaps with glue, but you need to be a bit careful you don't overdo it there.
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Post by: Alpharius
Kingdom Death on Kickstarter wrote:
WHAT IF, I admitted that the Spider Silk Assassin was still being worked on and not even the line art is finished? What would you expect at 780k then? hehehe
Interesting indeed!
Can't wait for the next update.
It should hopefully give us the next two stretch goals...
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Post by: Duke Nuke Them
just a quick thought - looking at the KS website it reads like there hasnt been any benefit/reward for investors in the actual game box since it hit the $350k, and it looks like he has stopped providing survivor rewards at the $474 mark. i may be wrong (please say so if i am!) but it looks like all monies since then have been put into offering more products that we as investors would need to buy in addition to the survivor set / box set..... this seems a bit mean at first glance, as we now have the ability to buy more figures, as the KS is doing so well (but more more money), but we dont see any actuall benefits for our existing pledges...
am i reading this right - or am i missing the point - it looks to me like unless you are willing to up your $ to 300 theres no point in anything since the $475k target was reached.........which was only a little way into the KS process..... 
when you look at this and the Reaper KS there is a big difference in how investor money is rewarded - reaper got you more free bonus figs, this KS gets you more chances to spend more money on more figs
by the way - im not a hater - i love this stuff - but im not sure its turning out to be the brilliant deal it first appeared to be - i mean - most of the figsonly have a tiny discount compared to future retail prices ($3 disount on the pin ups), but we need to pay now and wait a year before we get them - surely the deal should be more fair to us that invest?
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Post by: Fafnir
Well, the newest stretch goal will be included in the Survivor level reward.
Also, keep in mind that the survivor level already has some incredibly big bonuses at this point (double everything in the box is a lot of stuff)
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Post by: squall018
 Duke Nuke Them wrote:just a quick thought - looking at the KS website it reads like there hasnt been any benefit/reward for investors in the actual game box since it hit the $350k, and it looks like he has stopped providing survivor rewards at the $474 mark. i may be wrong (please say so if i am!) but it looks like all monies since then have been put into offering more products that we as investors would need to buy in addition to the survivor set / box set..... this seems a bit mean at first glance, as we now have the ability to buy more figures, as the KS is doing so well (but more more money), but we dont see any actuall benefits for our existing pledges...
am i reading this right - or am i missing the point - it looks to me like unless you are willing to up your $ to 300 theres no point in anything since the $475k target was reached.........which was only a little way into the KS process.....
I guess in terms of getting "free" stuff you are correct, but the benefit of pledging is to help all these awesome new models see the light of day, plus we are getting a deep discount on the new stuff that is coming out with the stretch goals. I guess it just depends on what you want out of the KS. I'm pretty cool with the way its gone, though I will admit its getting expensive. I had to see a hard limit of 300$. Plus I believe the savior that we just hit is a "free" model, though someone correct me if I'm wrong about that.
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Post by: Duke Nuke Them
 Fafnir wrote:Well, the newest stretch goal will be included in the Survivor level reward.
Also, keep in mind that the survivor level already has some incredibly big bonuses at this point (double everything in the box is a lot of stuff)
yep - but arent those duplicated figs useless in the game? we still need to buy all the extras if we are to play the game to its potential.... good news about the newest one tho 
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Post by: RiTides
The expansions are not too deeply discounted, though, for having to pay a year out. Fiscally, it makes the most sense to just get the box / Survivor, and the first 2 more heavily discounted expansions, rather than the others.
At $300 it becomes a good deal again, but it's a good thing Survivor is getting a stretch now, since it was supposed to be the "stretch goal level" from what Adam said at the start.
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Post by: devilution
Too bad he doesn't got a shipping deal for EU :(
Import/Export taxes in Belgium are crazy... And the (belgian) post office charges another 20 Euro just for administration because it's a non EU package.
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Post by: Lt. Coldfire
Duke Nuke Them wrote: Fafnir wrote:Well, the newest stretch goal will be included in the Survivor level reward.
Also, keep in mind that the survivor level already has some incredibly big bonuses at this point (double everything in the box is a lot of stuff)
yep - but arent those duplicated figs useless in the game? we still need to buy all the extras if we are to play the game to its potential.... good news about the newest one tho
Duplicate monsters are useless in the game, yes, but you can give them to friends, paint/keep them for the hell of it or to use in another game, or sell them--I guarantee there is a lot of interest in particular minis, but not necessarily the game itself. The Watcher and Phoenix especially will have a lot of interest with folks imo. Those are some really awesome models that you get duplicates of at the Survivor Level.
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Post by: Sinful Hero
New level is up. Seems survivor level get a reproduction table included in their game, along with the savior mini.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
Update!
725K has been surpassed! Let's Celebrate with Snow the Savior! An Unexpected Development and 750K up next!
Update #32 · Dec. 20, 2012 · 7 comments
I was a little surprised when I woke up at ( 3PM ) to see the 725k stretch goal beaten! I am still fully expecting a slow down for the holidays and I really need to do shopping!
Everyone eligible for the Survivor or Deluxe Survivor reward level will get Snow the Savior in plastic. As it turns out... Saviors were already written into the game in a small way! The Savior is a character class that will be featured in greater detail later down the road, but they do make a small cameo in KD:M! The settlement revolves around your population, there are many ways to lose people but only a few ways to get more. One of these, is natural child birth which involves some game conditions ( effected by innovations ) and a dice roll on the reproduction table. If your lucky, you might just bring a new born Savior into your settlement!
I don't want to spoil exactly how it works, but I will say they are treated mostly just like any other Survivor. They can still gear up and of course die a terrible death, however they also can gain access to some special rules unique unto themselves. So if you get a Savior, be careful with em! Try to get their experience up and see what happens!
I thought a great way to share this already built in gameplay feature would be to showcase Snow the Savior and include her as a little bonus gift for the campaign reaching this far!
I also want to say that we now have a way to handle backers that want to support the project via options only. Please select the "options only" reward tier which will cover your shipping fees and then simply increase your pledge by the added value of the options you want.
You can access the full text option list from the main page ( there is a little button where the options start ) but here is the list in case you missed it.
Unexpected Development!
I was recently contact by Aaron of Critsucces, they have a pretty awesome kickstarter project making dice rings! We chatted about potentially working together. Check out their kickstarter it's only got 2 days left!
( Read more in the image below )
750K is our next target!
And 800K well... many of you have guessed it. There might just be another monster and another armor kit for us!
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Post by: RiTides
Okay, that's cool about the possible dice ring collaboration . Fantastic idea. Automatically Appended Next Post: Did he link to the dice ring KS?
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Post by: Sinful Hero
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Post by: kingdomdeath
@Duke Nuke Them,
Kickstarter is not groupon and I am afraid to say that backers are not investors. The tax form that amazon generates for the kickstarter money is pure income. Backer is an appropriate word because it's neither customer or investor, it is indeed something new.
The success of the campaign is fantastic, but I am not taking it lightly and I must ensure it does not sink me.
There are many hard financial realities and the money pledge total is not what I will get to take home. 11% of the total goes directly to amazon / kickstarter. Typically another 10% of backers never pay. ( Sedition Wars dropped from 1.05 mil to 950k in the last day due to this ) The cost of shipping and fulfillment is absolutely insane and will easily eat another 10%.
I need to be very careful with what I gift to backers for supporting the project to ensure that it all still remains possible. Another very scary factor I have to consider, is the cost of the core game box. Due to all the upgrades the cost to make the box has increased by a lot. My initial target retail of $100 is been blow apart and now will have to be more around $120.
All of this is, fantastic and I am extremely excited. But there is not just expectations from backers to manage but also the smooth production of the product and all its expansions.
I am not Reaper, so I apologize in advance for not being able to offer a similar reward structure that they were.
In regards to playing the game to its full potential, I still feel very strongly that the contents of the core game box is all you need to have an amazing time with friends for a staggering number of hours including playtime and hobbytime.
The expansions are just that, expansions you should not feel pressured to attain them in any way. Even as I say this I can understand that the newness of a revealed expansion has a certain allure, but if you are at your budget please resist and just know that it was thanks to your pledge that this great new addition was able to exist at all.
If you are a backer that's in this for a hopeful windfall of "free" miniatures, please understand I am doing my best... and I offer my apologies now and in the future if you are disappointed.
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Post by: Absolutionis
To be honest, the expansions are great. You state the MSRP you will eventually offer them and then make it clear that Kickstarter backers will get a discount.
So far, in this campaign, everything has been crystal-clear. Thank you so much for it.
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Post by: Piston Honda
Thought I would post this here, just to see if there is any interest. I have to pull my pledge due to personal reasons. This is not a protest or I am angry at xxxx. Just other things came up and have to spend the money somewhere else. I have a 250.00 pledge for the black friday special (I think a 45.00 saving if I remember correctly).
I know I can't just pass this pledge on to another user, but if someone here want to coordinate with me where we are online together, I drop my pledge and you can take my black friday spot, No guarantees, but if any one is interested....
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Post by: Schmapdi
 kingdomdeath wrote:@Duke Nuke Them,
If you are a backer that's in this for a hopeful windfall of "free" miniatures, please understand I am doing my best... and I offer my apologies now and in the future if you are disappointed.
I think, for the most part, you are doing fine on this front (Herald of Death helped immensely, packing in a pin-up or something like you did with the Gorm expansion does too). And I think a small reward like the Savior being added every few stretch goals is plenty. I think part of the reason some people feel the kickstarter has been a bit chinsy is that a lot of the survivor level freebies are duplicates of stuff in the box, and people write them off completely. Take those out - and it's only really Paul, Anya and the Savior that have been added. (I for one, have no interest in the duplicates - but I try to keep in mind they'll have some trade/sale value at a future date).
One thing I think would make for a good "freebie," a stretch goal that adds 10 more base inserts for Survivors, and a further 10 for Heralds. It feels weird to get so few less inserts in the base game box than survivors that come in the base game box. So it'd be nice to even it up a bit.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
 Piston Honda wrote:Thought I would post this here, just to see if there is any interest. I have to pull my pledge due to personal reasons. This is not a protest or I am angry at xxxx. Just other things came up and have to spend the money somewhere else. I have a 250.00 pledge for the black friday special (I think a 45.00 saving if I remember correctly).
I know I can't just pass this pledge on to another user, but if someone here want to coordinate with me where we are online together, I drop my pledge and you can take my black friday spot, No guarantees, but if any one is interested....
PM'd!
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Post by: Dentry
Saw this posted in the comments section by a backer. Fell in love.
Non-pinup Female Preacher
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Post by: Schmapdi
oh wow - that is fantastic. Much better than the pin-up one (which is a bit too over-the-top-"sexy librarian").
I hope this is a future stretch goal.
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Post by: Fafnir
Her hands look a little too big though. Also, her foot looks a little too large, and perhaps flat. Might just be an early build, however.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
That is a mighty fine archivist!
& Adam, I'm sure most of us don't realise how little margin you end up with even with a the huge amount of pledges the KS has provided so far
so keep up the good work
If you can give use extras (at any backer level) brilliant
(even more of the excellent KD art in the digital book)
If not options are cool too.. I might not be able to afford them now, but if they're created at least I can dream of getting them later
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Post by: RiTides
That preacher is awesome! Probably won't be in this game, though.
I am interested in KD's margins... I'm sure we'll never know, but selling direct ( KS, even at the 10-11% fee) and in bulk and far in advance allows a good margin and quantity discount (on plastic). I think he's doing fine.
In the interview ge does state he makes more doing this than he ever did at web design
That's the one bummer here, a bit of "overhead" if you can call it that. Compare to Dreamforge, where the creator does his own models (thus not needing to pay artists) and works a full-time job (so not even needing to pay himself completely, at least until he is selling models). The only overhead there is in manufacturing, and they look lean. So everything, almost, was able to go to manufacturing costs, whereas here a lot needs to go to Poots / various artists. But that's more normal, and Dreamforge is an exception, I think.
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Post by: Alpharius
I think the 'value' in this Kickstarter is already quite good, and anything else, while greatly appreciated, is gravy!
There's been an OK balance of 'free' extras and discounted add-ons. I know I'm happy so far! (If not quite a bit poorer for it! )
What the heck is the $750K miniature?
I can't figure out what's going on in that silhouette at all!
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Post by: Fafnir
It'll be the Silk/Spider pinup.
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Post by: RiTides
Yeah, that's what I had it pegged as too Fafnir 
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Post by: squall018
@ Alpharius, I"ve been trying to figure that out myself. It almost reminds me of one of the flood monsters from Halo. Its right foot looks kind of wierd it almost looks like it could be some kind of growth that comes from its head or torso and then folds back over. It also looks like it has the two lanterns (recurring motif) and I haven't seen a monster with a lantern yet so that is kind of curious as well. I guess we'll see pretty soon.
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Post by: DaveC
Didn't Adam post this morning that the Spider Silk Assassin pin up artwork isn't finished yet and he had planned to add it at $780k? l think I'm seeing a veiled face and 2 ponytails ending in lanterns with a whip in the left hand we'll find out in $7k time
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Post by: grefven
 squall018 wrote:@ Alpharius, I"ve been trying to figure that out myself. It almost reminds me of one of the flood monsters from Halo. Its right foot looks kind of wierd it almost looks like it could be some kind of growth that comes from its head or torso and then folds back over. It also looks like it has the two lanterns (recurring motif) and I haven't seen a monster with a lantern yet so that is kind of curious as well. I guess we'll see pretty soon.
The butcher is a "monster/boss" with plenty of lanterns. :p
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Post by: squall018
grefven wrote: squall018 wrote:@ Alpharius, I"ve been trying to figure that out myself. It almost reminds me of one of the flood monsters from Halo. Its right foot looks kind of wierd it almost looks like it could be some kind of growth that comes from its head or torso and then folds back over. It also looks like it has the two lanterns (recurring motif) and I haven't seen a monster with a lantern yet so that is kind of curious as well. I guess we'll see pretty soon.
The butcher is a "monster/boss" with plenty of lanterns. :p
Touche, sir. It could be the silk pinup as was stated before. I guess I feel like the outline looks kind of "monsterish" the lanterns make me feel like it will be a survivor/ pinup. Only 9k more and we won't have to guess.
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Post by: Necros
So.. Is this more like a RPG that uses minis for battles? Or a straight up skirmish battle game? I read through everything (more like skimmed real fast) and can't figure it out
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Post by: squall018
 Necros wrote:So.. Is this more like a RPG that uses minis for battles? Or a straight up skirmish battle game? I read through everything (more like skimmed real fast) and can't figure it out
There hasn't been a TON of detail on the game, but I think its safe to say its a board game with skirmish and RPG elements. You build a civilisation from the ground up and fight mosters to acquire new materials and gain skills. Theres more to it, but so far the 2nd gameplay video isn't out yet so details are a little scarce. I'm sure some of the guys here can add to what I"ve said though.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
A titbit of Kingdom Death info I found by data-mining Adams KS comments
Orlando_the_Technicoloured 24 minutes ago
Re-reading some of Adams comments here's one nobody picked up at the time, but now we have a SAVIOUR in the game.....
@Mystic Weasel, It might excite you to know that I already have 5 unique sculpts of the Savior that represent her at all her age levels! ( to be released next year after the KS ) I am just happy to hear there are some savior fans out there!
so more Saviours for the KD store in 2013 (wonder it they are of Snow, or a new Saviour)
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Post by: Dentry
It sounds like they're all Snow. "...the Savior that represent her at all her age levels!"
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Post by: Alpharius
From Adam, over on Boardgamegeek.com (thanks to OrlandotheTechnicoloured (great username, by the way! ) over on the KS comment thread):
Ah!
This thread keeps on getting more interesting! Is depth heavy narrative or is it emergent gameplay? What about games that "fake" depth to make the narrative feel like it has more meaning behind it, like Heavy Rain or side quest heavy rpgs?
There are so many different ways to "play" and its all just so awesome!
Kingdom Death : Monster is a love song to the types of games myself and my gaming group adore the most. It is a game that has been slowly coming to life thanks to years of hard work, the hands of many talented artists and the support of fans, hobbyists, collectors and friends. A fact: this is not a mass market project, nor is the game intended to be mass market and it might never go into major distribution. There are lots of reasons for this and I would be happy to get into them at another time and another place.
A 5 minute gameplay explanation video that covers a single phase of a game, is long. It's VERY long. And as much as I'd love to to cover all 25 of a creatures AI cards, along with the various combinations that can happen as they are played, and a set of 4 survivors each with a full load out of 9 gear cards, I struggle to see that as an effective way to manage my or the viewers time. I do still want to touch upon all of that and give a better view of all that can happen outside of what was highlighted in the gameplay video. But it is certainly a challenge!
Every monster is quite unique and a tremendous amount of time and effort has gone into providing each one with their own flavor. For example, the Lion has an isolate prey AI card, where he will drag knocked down survivors away from the group. And survivors themselves get powerful survival points, which can be used to dodge, move at any time, gain another gear activation or in some cases are required for special maneuvers.
Gear is also not limited to just weapons. A Fecal Salve can be applied to make yourself not a threat, A whisper harp can be strummed to remove a mood card and a Rawhide Drum can be beat to negate damage from intimidation attacks like roars or stare downs.
When I was working on the basics of the combat system, I had a few major essentials for a combat that supported a game that is essentially about cooperation, survival, tools and human tenacity from generation to generation.
No Sure Bets - I am level 20 you are lvl 1, I win gtfo.
Knowledge is Power - Both what you know about fighting the monster and how the survivor is geared can make a big difference. The lion has a particularly dangerous head chomp AI card, if a survivor has an insight ability he might be able to keep peeking the deck for it. Or an opportunity might arise when the lions jaw is struck, a critical on this location would ruin the lions mouth and change the effect of the head chomp AI card. Critical hits are not just limited to pure luck rolls, but it all depends on the gear of the survivor, the settlement, and how the battle unfolds.
I wanted an actual challenge - I will get a little personal here. I find most games to be either painfully easy or worse yet, give me endless duplicated content to grind thru in order to make progress. The default difficulty of this game will be hard. Unless your group is filled with game geniuses your first settlement will fail, you will not make it thru to the end in a single campaign and a lot of survivors will die. I understand a lot of people and groups do not enjoy this and I will design a much easier setting for them.
But for me? I want it to kick my teeth in, I want the game to get my hopes up high only to grind the life out of my poor survivors and leave them helpless in the darkness, endless monsters closing in on them only for the S**T to hit the fan and everyone to just start flipping their garbage.
That moment when your group takes down a lvl 3 phoenix, when you planned and crafted a specific gear list, risked life, limb, sanity and... you managed to pull it off? You'll always remember that group of survivors, those baddasses that despite the odds came back home and the sting on your hand from all the high fives will warm your memory for years to come!
That brief, vibrant spark in the darkness you'll share with friends is the true design purpose, and has been the single most motivating factor behind the project itself.
Without risk their is no reward.
The game very much embodies that."
hope you see something here that helps allay your worries
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
I'm thinking the 750k mystery fig might be similar in some way to the Mother and Grand Mother models. Maybe an in-between or prequel to them?
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Post by: squall018
After reading that I'm just more excited. Sounds like a board game version of dark souls ( I know other people have said that ) and I loved Dark Souls so this just gets me more pumped... I'm gonna go play some zombiecide now to ease my craving for board games.
42013
Post by: Sinful Hero
750k has been hit! Now for the waiting...
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Post by: Buzzsaw
Oh My!
750k, New Pinup, New Options and a Peak at realizing the 800k dream!
Update #33 · Dec. 21, 2012 · comment
750k!!!!! I am furiously typing up this update, otherwise I will be late to wish a dear friend a happy birthday!
Thanks to everyones support we are finally standing on the horizon of one of my favorite ( content-wise ) things. I will save the spoilers for now, but suffice to say it opens up yet another way to start the game. At 800k we will unlock this and I will spill the beans!
By reaching 750k we've unlocked the Leather Queen, a pinup miniature based off the survivors Leather Armor. The sculpt is coming along well and I've crammed in a teaser at the end of this post! Like all the other pinups she is optional and comes with no gameplay rules, think of her as a cheerleader to help fund the larger and much more expensive chunks of the project! You can add a plastic version of her to your rewards by increasing your pledge by +$15, or a resin version by increasing your pledge by +$25. A post campaign pledge manager will be sent out, so you can confirm your reward selections.
Spider Silk Armor Options
The reception to the Spider Silk Armor has been huge! All of my email boxes have been stuffed with people requesting the ability to pledge for more of them. Seems to be a huge desire to use their armor kits in conjunction with other game systems or to form infantry blocks in other larger war games. It is a simple request and I told them all I would do what I can!
For +$25 you can add an additional Spider Silk Armor kit to your rewards and for +$50 you can add a 5 Pack of Spider Silk Armor kits that makes 20 miniatures total! The Kits will come with their weapons sprue, which is still a work in progress at this time so I don't have any acceptable art worthy of showing off just yet. If you can imagine it will fit the theme of the armors and the monster!
I just added a simple "text" list to the home page, which gives you a break down of what comes in the game box. At this point I've redesigned the info-graphic with all the images several times, its really hard to get right!
Gameplay video #2
I was hoping to have this ready by this weekend and I will be working like crazy to do the best I can. I will however have to step away from work on the 24th and the 25th to spend time with friends and family that have traveled to see me. So the gameplay video will most likely not be ready until after the 25th. I strongly suggest everyone go take a break and play with your toys! I even hope to get a little time in with The WII U we have setup here at the warehouse!
Gotta Have it All
There seems to be a very large majority of completionists out there that want to pick up all the gameplay content. While I think this is awesome and I am very happy to hear it, I would like to remind everyone that we are already long past the initial projections of this kickstarter campaign. The game box itself offers a tremendous amount of gameplay and hobby content! I am super grateful for the excited people that want to help support the project more and more, but you should not feel pressured to "get" everything. I simply cannot predict how many more expansions this kickstarter will fund and thus, I cannot offer a "get all gameplay reward" level at this time. I can say however that I will run out of planned content and I will not "force" new game elements just to keep the campaign ticking up.
Male Pinup - Believe it or not I have been working on this for well over a year, it is quite the challenge! Please don't expect it to be part of this campaign, but perhaps one day!
Ok, enough out of me! Let me bust out that image we worked hard to get!
Oh, just to clarify - No the Leather Queen is not Topless. Her arm is covering her outfit.
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Post by: recruittons
I am so stoked for the Sunstalker. It's going to be so awesome!
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Post by: Buzzsaw
Oh, and from the comments;
KingdomDeath wrote:Its not an infant, its a 1,000 year version... i mean... if its even that.... * cough
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Post by: DaveC
Yep Adam pretty much just gave the game away there by saying it's not an infant it's a 1000 year old version.
Extra silk armour sets are tempting will have to wait until the end though
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Post by: Fafnir
The Leather Queen looks kinky as hell. Not too shabby.
As for the new model, looks to be flora based. I'm very interested in this. I've been doing design work for a videogame (the game itself was for a production class, and final project turned out horribly, but I digress) where I designed creatures based on flowers, and I've taken a great interest to creatures that mix floral and animal motifs. I look forward to this one with great interest
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Post by: DaveC
This supposedly (TBC) is the adult sunstalker - some my consider this image NSFW
http://cghub.com/images/view/154932/
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Post by: cincydooley
If it is, I hope the creepy penis part goes away.
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Post by: Schmapdi
It can't! Then how it will it make Sunstalker infants?
I will say - bit of a double standard here. We've got penis on this thing, and the guy with Spidicules, not to mention Gorm's giant ballsack (not sure what else is under there). Yet with the exception of the illuminated lady all the females are keeping covered (if only barely) - even the clearly kinky-as-hell leather pin-up. I just find it rather odd / funny - we have to whisper about the illuminated lady and hide her in the text-only options - but swinging the pipe is fine!
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Post by: RiTides
I didn't see any pictures of the Gorm's... err... stuff, on the KS page, so I don't see any double standard.
Also, there are a lot more scantily clad ladies than men on this. I think the idea that there is a "reverse" double standard of having more male than female nudity is pretty laughable, given the models.
And I can't imagine that the sunstalker model linked to above will make it into the campaign as-is. That is indeed pretty darn creepy... and Adam's been somewhat conservative about the sculpts he's included so far.
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Post by: Fafnir
Well... there's only one way to find out...
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Post by: Azazelx
Has Adam actually shown all of the figures that come in the base game yet? It seems all the effort is being spent on showing off "optional $15 add-ons" and the like.
I'll probably pull my pledge before this ends. I'm getting tired of these...
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Post by: Alpharius
 scipio.au wrote:Has Adam actually shown all of the figures that come in the base game yet? It seems all the effort is being spent on showing off "optional $15 add-ons" and the like.
I'll probably pull my pledge before this ends. I'm getting tired of these...
Tired of what?
And what pledge amount are you in at?
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Post by: cincydooley
I'm so confused....what are you tired of?
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Post by: RiTides
I think he means, tired of the focus on add-ons, rather than showing what is in the base game (such as the additional gameplay videos, or better shots of the game box figures of which some of the armor sets haven't been clearly shown, etc).
Not saying I agree, although I did think it was a little wearying focusing on the pay-to-play add ons. However, you could just stop checking the page I guess
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Post by: Alpharius
Sure, I guess?
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Post by: Fafnir
Sounds like a pretty silly reason to pull out, but whatever.
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Post by: Piston Honda
Contacted the forum member to take my slot on the Kingdom Death pledge manager.
Unfortunately I have only one slot and can only give it to one person. My Apologies to people who may be disappointed.
Again, me pulling out has nothing to do with being disgruntled by this Kick Starter. I have some unexpected costs come at me (about 800 dollars in Cherry wood), just have to take care of priorities at this current moment.
The Archivist girls fahkin AWESOME!
Will she be for sale by her self at a later date?
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm not sure that the 'Archivist' model has even been confirmed as being part of this Kickstarter campaign yet!
She might not be a part of it at all, and end up 'just' on the Kingdom Death webpage for sale in their shop...
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Post by: lucasbuffalo
Every time I try and run away with a full wallet something naughty pulls me back in >.>
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Quick, someone sell me on why I need to pay $36 for some King's Men instead of waiting for the retail release!
They will be released for individual sale, right? Any idea for how much?
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Post by: Azazelx
RiTides wrote:I think he means, tired of the focus on add-ons, rather than showing what is in the base game (such as the additional gameplay videos, or better shots of the game box figures of which some of the armor sets haven't been clearly shown, etc).
Not saying I agree, although I did think it was a little wearying focusing on the pay-to-play add ons. However, you could just stop checking the page I guess
Thanks - and you're largely correct. There's a few elements at work, really.
I actually haven't been checking the page too often at all - like less than once a week. I've stopped following Kickstarters too closely in general past the initial few days until the last few days, as I'm simply not inclined to be changing my pledges every two days. But yeah, I asked about "what's in the box?"
awhile back, and it seems that's there's still no good images/answer on the page - just that tiny little pic - but there's plenty of good quality images if you want to lay down an extra twenty on a pair of breasts. It's kinda tiring. I'll freely admit that I'm also getting a little burnt out on Kickstarters as well, particularly those that are all about the add-on stretch goals which require taking a $130 pledge to $500 if you want to get all the stuff (damn my OCD!)
I'm down for round $150 so far. One of the third-tier early birds - something like that.
Fafnir wrote:Sounds like a pretty silly reason to pull out, but whatever.
I'm also not in love with the models. Sure, they're nice enough, but I'm not totally in love with the particular aesthetic or their lack of wider compatibility with the rest of my collection in that they are 38-40mm or so. I'll also admit I don't get the level of deification and hero-worship for KD stuff. But hey, personal aesthetics, I guess. The whole fetish giant boobs falling out of their tops anime softcore thing that Adam has going is nice enough, but not "shut up and take my money" level exciting to me.
So for reasons to pull out - it's expensive and not going to actually arrive for (probably) close to a year, I like but don't love the models, I could buy a half-dozen other on-release boardgames that have good reviews rather than a rather vague "all things for all people - it's the best, Jerry" concept, for the same amount, or a lot of other miniatures. Or a lot of other "toys" or whatever type (Sideshow statues, Hot Toys figures). I'm a bit disheartened with Kickstarters in general and tired of being disappointed with them not delivering, (though Adam is being smart here with the long lead time), the focus being heavily on paid add-ons and still not having shown what's in the box properly or clearly. I also have a couple of thousand figures to paint already before we get to things like Reaper and Sedition Wars, so I figure I might be better off curbing some of the spending on random-but-nice models like these and getting more painting done instead. There's a few reasons for you, and many of them also apply to, say, Imbrian Arts.
It also comes down to best use of my money. I've just bought a new house, so it's another Kickstarter for $3-500 that will arrive in 8-11 months - which I'm not totally in love with anyway - or money towards a new fridge, or a new gate, or improved internet cabling through the house, or...
Seriously though - for those people who love the KD aesthetic and want to go in for a heap - more power to you. I'm not pissing on your parade by saying that I'd actually like to see the whole set before making a final decision, or that I might choose to pull out. I'm not saying the figures are bad, or that Adam is the debil, or that you're stupid for spending money on these toy soldiers instead of those toy soldiers. I'm just saying that I might choose to pull out. No need to get offended or upset, surely you don't need others to validate your choices, and my $150-odd is just a drop in the bucket as far as your stretch goals go...
If I do pull out of the EB, It'll be in the last couple of days, and I'll let the thread know so we can try and coordinate someone else into the EB slot via PM or something.
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Post by: Dentry
This might answer some of your questions, Scipio, if you haven't seen it already. Most of the information is being compiled together by backers.
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Post by: Fafnir
Well, that's entirely fair. It's just that the way your previous post was worded seemed kind of silly (granted, it's all your prerogative), considering the nature of kickstarters themselves.
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Post by: Makaleth
@Scipio: That makes sense, and houses are expensive.
As for the game contents, other than the rules, gameplay and potentially tile (2' x 3' I think) the rest has been shown at some point... not well laid out though.
The link from Dentry is a must see for that question.
I am very excited about this KS, but I am not getting much other than the expansions (as the Pin-ups are regular price). So I can get them later (the exception is the lioness which I fell in love with!)
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Post by: kingdomdeath
I have been slowly re-working the homepage with the eventual goal of showcasing the contents of the game box. The contents of the box are all highlighted in the pitch video and were touched upon in many of the early stretch goals and the campaign is way... WAY past the initial projections!
The info-graphic that shows all the miniatures and stuff in the box is... really challenging! I've worked on the design many times now and I've yet to find a happy place. This whole experience has been just insane! Every time I look at the clock hours seem to have just vanished and messages diligently march into my inbox!
The amount of content in the game box is just intense! I've made this temp text list for now :
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
no idea why this double posted, so I'll use it for this message instead
Scipio, check out the BOLS link there are plenty of good shots of the armour kit minis, enough to show what the sort of thing you'll get is
if these don't inspire you you're probably better spending on home improvements (I know what a huge expense a new house is), but hopefully they'll grab your 'must have shiney' collector impulses
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Post by: grefven
Would I gain anything by going double survivor reward if I plan on adding a couple of extras? I believe that I might get to around $600-700. Perhaps would be smarter to go with two accounts at $300 a piece to get double the bonuses?
How do you guys reason?
61979
Post by: DaveC
Herad of Death only counts once no matter how many box sets you order (you don't get 2 lots if you order 2 box sets and exceed $600) so 2 accounts is the way to go if you want double the Herald of Death stuff
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Post by: RiTides
@ KD- At some point (before the end of the campaign?) it'd be good to have at least an updated simple text list of the Survivor bonuses... Automatically Appended Next Post: I see the text for Survivor is Slightly updated... kind of highlights how until the latest stretch there was what, I think 250K  since the last Survivor bonus?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
If you add a second survivor level (155) that will come with all the survivor level bonuses too
Adam has said the Herald of Death stuff is one per backer, so using two accounts to try and double up on this freebie is probably a bad idea (I'd guess if he sees the same name/shipping address you wouldn't get the second lot anyway, you could get round it but it doesn't seem in the spirit of thing)
On the other hand buying it all on one account does mean less shipping for an international buyer (which at $45 is worth more than the Herald freebies anyway).......
61979
Post by: DaveC
Ah good point international shipping is $45 adding another Manhunter and Lion Knight is $45 so no benefit to the second account option
61282
Post by: grefven
You get the Manhunter and the Lion Knight, but you ALSO get all the additional items from the game box (armour kits, watcher, phoenix, etc.).
So, instead of going $700 in one account, it does sound like a lot better to go 2 x 300 + optionals. And I don't even mean a little better but a lot.
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Post by: Fafnir
That's assuming you're just going for volume of plastic.
Furthermore, a kickstarter shouldn't be about "gaming the system," but actually backing a project.
61979
Post by: DaveC
The new side options list shows that you can add a Survivor Level set of rewards for $155 to an existing pledge I take it from that, that you get another game boxset and all Survivor stretch rewards for another $155 plus there is no additional shipping fee $45 covers your entire pledge.
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Post by: c0un7_z3r0
You don't seem to have a problem with the pin-up's but one lousy penis gives you the creeps?
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Post by: grefven
Fafnir wrote:That's assuming you're just going for volume of plastic.
Furthermore, a kickstarter shouldn't be about "gaming the system," but actually backing a project.
Certainly. But the giving should go both ways. If $300 is the spot where Adam wants to keep it most beneficial then what do I benefit from going higher? If there had been another higher level that would encourage backers to go higher then it goes both ways. But everything currently above $300 is backers giving to KD and not the other way round.
Edit: Also, if KD is making a profit at $300 then one will still back the project even if splitting up the orders.
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Post by: kingdomdeath
Kickstarter is not groupon and kickstarter is not a store. If a backer is at their budget limit I urge you to manage your pledge responsibly. I know myself and all the other fans that want to see the game expand appreciate the support, but its not worth compromising yourself.
I want to give everyone as much as possible, but I have to very very carefully manage the budget as everything moves forward. It's awful to say, but a dollar pledged on kickstarter... only equals roughly $0.64 when you take into consideration the amazon/kickstarter fee of 11%, the statistical fact that about 10% of backers never pay and that a ungodly amount 10-20% that goes to shipping companies. Then that $0.64 will go to paying for the entirety of the project before the money raised is taxed as pure income. Which for me being in Brooklyn NY, the tax bracket of state and federal puts it up to about 40%.
It's really like riding a roller coaster on a tight rope. Balancing between budget and expectations.
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Post by: RiTides
Edit: Well darn, you completely edited the post while I was replying to it . I should have quoted! I was referring to your breakdown of all the fees that come through Kickstarting, as compared to selling through a distributor.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While true, you still make much selling direct than through a distributor, which is what you're doing through Kickstarter.
However, you've mentioned you might not go for major distribution in the future... so I guess we'll see there. But I have a feeling CMON will be selling this game in the future, similar to how they sell your current models, and as you've indicated is very possible.
Not trying to belittle anything here, just pointing out that a lot of companies are getting a lot done with a lot less money! I know that as the number of backers rise, the number of freebies you can offer has to get stretched out to compensate for the numbers.
But yes, most Definitely from the backers perspective, it's an investment. If people wanted to simply pre-order, they could wait until it was offered as such instead of paying a full YEAR ahead of time!
I viewed my pledges for Dreamforge, Trollfroged, and the Form 1 printer as investments in making a project happen that wouldn't otherwise, not a pre-order... that's the point of Kickstarter for me. It's also why I think I can wait to simply pre-order this when it becomes available, rather than "invest" now! Not that I don't think others shouldn't invest, it is a fantastic project that I've always been a huge fan of, but at 3/4 of a million dollars it has the funding to make it happen for sure... so my investment (and that is indeed how I view it, as a backer not a purchaser) is not necesary now.
I do understand there's a clear difference between "backer" and pure "investor", but I always understood that as one of benevolence on the part of the one offering the money (i.e., I'll give you this money now and not expect a stake in the company or interest, just the rewards listed). Certainly, it probably would've taken longer to make this game without the possibility of Kickstarter, so it is doing it's job very well, imo.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Impact miniatures published a breakdown of their KS as follows:
"This morning I was able to sit down and finalize all the project expenses of fullfilling the KickStarter and here is what the operating budget looks like to fullfill the KickStarter and create a small starting inventory for online store sales afterward:
Castings: $49700
Sculptors/Artists: $22200
Moulding: $ 9700
KS/Amazon/Drop Fees: $ 9400
Fullfillment Shipping: $ 8900
Allowance for Problems: $ 5199
TOTAL: $105099" (what the KS took)
A smaller KS, (and depending on what casting method Adam uses potentially a lot cheaper in terms of casting), but again it shows that a strong KS performance may not leave much (if anything) as 'profit'... other than getting your ideas to the market
Impact! believes in being upfront with our backers and our customers as much as possible ... so we wanted to share this now that the numbers are in.
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Post by: RiTides
Wow, it's awesome that Impact was willing to share those numbers. I guess it costs a lot to get things molded / cast at Trollforged but it makes sense, since they're doing the heavy lifting!
But yes, that's how I've always viewed my KS pledges... basically paying for the costs of making the goods, not so much the time of the creator (although I understand that this is necessary for some campaigns, and obviously if it is one's livelihood they have to make a living off of the time spent on it).
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Post by: kingdomdeath
Trollforged is actually pretty cheap when compared to other methods.
I really, really like ED and we have been entertaining a very healthy dialogue.
And yes, I edited the post as I realized that I have been awake for 24 hours answering questions and that I should take the time to word things carefully in my zombie like state.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
Wow, I had high expectations, but I'm simply blown away by the contents of the kits!
Just check out the options on the Phoenix armor kit;
That's a lot of options. And the Survivors themselves...
These really push the boundary between game pieces and art pieces. I'm very tempted to assemble the starting Survivors and just paint them like white stone.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I think one of the great things is the differing musculature on the male survivors, just compare the one in the post above with
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Post by: Cyporiean
Here is our projections for Endless: Fantasy Tactics.
Kickstarter Total: $23,783
After Fees/Non-Payment: $22,527
----
Sculpting - $11,500
Art - $4,475
Bases - $500
Dice - $1,260
Cards Est - $1200
Casting Est - $6,046
Packaging - $500
Shipping Est - $2,053
= $27,534
or $5,007 more than we got from the Kickstarter. Which is due to the constant flux of backers/droppers we had during the campaign and us not re-locking stretch goals; if we didn't have as many drop outs during the campaign I believe we could have easily cleared 40 to 50k. Luckly we have one semi-successful line already that will be able to tow the weight of Endless' Casting Fees, and our caster is awesome.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
two clearly different people, and not just 'head swaps'
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Post by: kingdomdeath
@Cyporiean, omg are you saying 50% of the backers didn't come thru?
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Post by: Cyporiean
No, just that we dealt with gaining/losing several thousand dollars every day of the campaign.. it was quite maddening.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I think Cyporiean means they had a fair number of backers pull out right at the end, the dropping them below previously unlocked stretch goals
Now they could have relocked them, but that would have been 1. mean and horrible and 2. might have caused other backers to pull out
so they were left funding models/casting that had not actually been paid for
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Post by: kingdomdeath
Yes, I watch people cancel and repledge constantly. Its really... just bizarre social behavior!
I didn't even know you COULD cancel a pledge until I launched. Haha. And I've backed a pretty hefty number of projects!
I wonder what the future of kickstarter and tiny men will be. It is most certainly a very passionate and chaotic embrace right now!
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
On the crest of the wave,
As long as new backers get drawn in it will remain strong (I'd say the majority of collectors still don't know about KS), but the new blood is needed because us old hand will either run out of spare cash (or actually get round to using some of the rewards meaning we don't want so much new stuff)
I'd say the 'elephant in the room' is if a minis KS fails to deliver either becauce of miss-management/accident or worse because of fraud.... That would be a big problem and would frighten away a lot of first timers etc
It's also remarkable what people don't see in project descriptions..... Once poor chap didn't realise that the Reaper Bones KS was for plastic minis (rather than metal), despite it being the thrust of the whole campaign
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Post by: RiTides
kingdomdeath wrote:Yes, I watch people cancel and repledge constantly. Its really... just bizarre social behavior!
I didn't even know you COULD cancel a pledge until I launched. Haha. And I've backed a pretty hefty number of projects!
I wonder what the future of kickstarter and tiny men will be. It is most certainly a very passionate and chaotic embrace right now!
I think the future is bright!
And I'm sure you knew a pledge could be increased/decreased, which is effectively the same thing
Any expense of hundreds of dollars will result in passion, I think. For myself, I love KS but need to wait until things become available to buy for most projects now. Otherwise, I'm just mortgaging the future!
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Post by: tre manor
I lost about $10,000 in backing over the course of my project. And I had about 5 or six big pledges fail after the funding closed. One thing I woudl avoid if I were you Adam is allowing pledge-ups after the campaign closes. It is a NIGHTMARE trying to confirm.
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Post by: grefven
When are you getting your next KS up, Tre? :p
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Post by: Schmapdi
Yeah - people suck. I remember seeing during the Relic Knights kickstarter every time a new stretch goal was close, some people would buy one of the big (5k or whatever) pledges to push it over the line, then drop it after the new goal was shown.
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Post by: Grobrotz
There should be a kind of fee for people who cancel their pledges, say 10% of the pledge or someting around this.
this would amortize te losses a little bit.
Or when pledging you should pay 10% of the pledged amount before the kickstarter ends to offer security, if not succesfully funded you would get the money right back.
Maybe some would then think more carefully about pledging way to much and then drop out.
I think this is a problem Kickstarter should really think about it as it can bring many of the smaller projects no matter in which range in huge trouble, making them pay even more then they get from the kickstarter.
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Post by: RiTides
Or, projects shouldn't make super limited rewards people have to rush to pledge for! In this one, you could pledge day 1 at a discount, but not know what you're getting.
Malifaux's current KS is even more extreme, week 1 pledge bonus, week 2 bonus, and now a possible bonus figure if enough folks up their pledges.
If you want to follow the KS model of stretches and getting current backers to up pledges, you have to deal with their decreasing pledges, too. Nature of the platform, and particularly, the way it is being used (which is not bad, imo, despite this drawback).
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Post by: Alpharius
Or, we could let the crowdfunding campaigns themselves dictate what is and is not successful!
Even as puzzling an affair as Wyrd's KS could be deemed a 'success', even if it could have been a lot more 'successful'?
The best part of these things is that the consumers...er...investors...er...backers?...decide whether or not to put their hard earned money on the line, thereby determining whether or not a project is... a success?
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Post by: RiTides
Totally agreed Alph, the openess of the platform is what makes it special.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Indiegogo opperate such that you pay immediately you pledge
(but get it back if the project fails to fund assuming it's what they call a fixed campaign)
Indiegogo project are usually much less sucessful than the equivalent KS (i'd guess equivalent projects would bring in only about 20% or less of the cash)
there are other technical issues that probably contribute to this, but I'd say having to pay upfront is a turn off for many (especially the less committed who back thinking well I can always cancel, but are eventually won over)
project creators have to take acount of this with thier target and stretch goals (either build in a saefty margin, or don't unlock a stretch until you are safely past it)
and KS will boot out serial offenders... the KS creator can see who is pledging what and when so they can report those messing them arround (as opposed to meerly being indecisive)
that said it is VERY annoying
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Post by: Alpharius
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
and KS will boot out serial offenders... the KS creator can see who is pledging what and when so they can report those messing them arround (as opposed to meerly being indecisive)
I didn't know this, though I suppose it should have been obvious.
I'd gather that unless you frequently pull Pledge Shenanigans it would be hard to prove malicious intent - you could just say "I really wanted tha pledge level, but then the budget and common sense made me change my mind!"
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'm suspect it happened on relic knights as there was a nasty pattern of a pledge in the $1000s coming in to meet a stretch, then vanishing again soon after
and I'm fairly sure Reaper mentioned somebody had been warned (or similar) after a brief spate of the same in the middle of theirs
but it's like those DoTA key spammers there's not way to eliminate them completly without ruining everything for those who actually want to use the service
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Post by: Grot 6
 Grobrotz wrote:There should be a kind of fee for people who cancel their pledges, say 10% of the pledge or someting around this.
this would amortize te losses a little bit.
Or when pledging you should pay 10% of the pledged amount before the kickstarter ends to offer security, if not succesfully funded you would get the money right back.
Maybe some would then think more carefully about pledging way to much and then drop out.
I think this is a problem Kickstarter should really think about it as it can bring many of the smaller projects no matter in which range in huge trouble, making them pay even more then they get from the kickstarter.
Really?
So then what your really saying is that the KS is really a store. 
You sell extras through a KS project, some projects move the bar, and then they decide that they are entitled to pledges. 
As to other projects, there have been several that claimed one issue or another, then decided to not even say anything AFTER the end of the project, so to me- you are basicly suckling on public good will and never had intention of commiting to backers. Sorry if my sympathy is lacking.
The other projects, you know- like the ones that continue to keep showing up with more and more "Extras" for sale are victims of thier own success. I see that some have posted numbers, thats fine and dandy, but when you see them out there saying that they only had to have 10 or 20 thousand, then see the "Backers" that signed up only that day.... well sorry to be blunt, but in my eyes, thats why it is KS and not out of your own webstores. You got the money you asked for,anything else is extra. As a project, youd even actually think that extras would be just that. Extra for making bank, and continued success. Instead, some of them are out there acting like one of those rich banker types trying to dictate your money in their bank.
Several times a week, I'll change my mind, especially when you see a project simply not make thier goal, or not living up to the discussion of what they actually wanted. So if some people didn't get cake with thier candy, thats a little too bad, and the fact that you get any money at all should be enough, and I see it as bad form to cry over a half full glass.
Money talks. Thats why it is called Crowd funding.
THIS along with the "Elephant in the room" of companies using crowd funding as padding future projection for sales, and drumming interest just by adding in a well known name or two. Not to mention some that have touted KS as thier own private purse in future projects... no matter how they turn out.
I'll throw it out there too, that some LIKE Relic Knight were and are victims of thier own success. That one in particular had enough of a cheerleader crowd that they were past the point of crowd funding and into the realm of Kool Aid.
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Post by: rpgplayer88
@ KD
I've found an article related to tax on kickstarter. Just if you're unaware of, maybe you could refer the link below.
http://www.guenthertax.com/blog/2012/05/no-kickstarter-project-should-pay-income-tax-in-their-first-year/
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Post by: streetsamurai
I'm I'll pledge on this project for sure, but I'm wondering if i'll go for the game or the survivor pledge( plus the numerous expansions that I all want).
Will the duplicate of monsters (the second phoenix included at the survivor level) be usable in the game, or will you only be fightning one phoenix at the time ?
Thanks
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Post by: Fafnir
The duplicates have no purpose in game. They're mainly for display purposes, or if you wanted to use them for other games.
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Post by: CptJake
RiTides wrote:Or, projects shouldn't make super limited rewards people have to rush to pledge for! In this one, you could pledge day 1 at a discount, but not know what you're getting.
Malifaux's current KS is even more extreme, week 1 pledge bonus, week 2 bonus, and now a possible bonus figure if enough folks up their pledges.
If you want to follow the KS model of stretches and getting current backers to up pledges, you have to deal with their decreasing pledges, too. Nature of the platform, and particularly, the way it is being used (which is not bad, imo, despite this drawback).
As someone who backed out of this I can address this.
As mentioned, to get a price break we were encouraged (by a discount) to pledge early. I did so, based on the look of some of the figures. Once some information on game play was released I realized that this was not a game I was going to play. Some of the figures are fantastic, but they were not going to work with anything else I played and I don't need a ton of figures with no purpose. Had the game been more of a skirmish or similar type game vice the area and resource and advance your character type I would have bought into it. Had I known more about the game up front I would not have pledged as much as I did (I pledged for the Black Friday special and then the first two expansions and added in some extra towards future add-ins I knew were coming though I did not know what they were).
I am VERY sure someone jumped on the available Black Friday slot when it opened.
Forcing folks to pay a penalty to back out may make sense, but I submit that it will come at the cost of less pledges, especially when the project information is initially not very detailed. Also, my reasons for backing out are not the only reason people do back out. If you pledge the $300 for the all the bonuses, and then have a real life emergency (car break down, hot water heater goes out, accident or health change in self or family member, whatever...) you may darned well need the $300 plus. Grabbing a chunk of it as a penalty could cause a lot of resentment and hardship for some folks.
I'm not saying there is not merrit to having some penalty, but there sure as heck better be CLEAR and up-front terms as to how and why it is applied and what the cost to the pledger is. I suspect Amazon, who has a really good product return policy, may be reluctant to do something like that, and I also suspect that the potential cost will deter some folks from pledging or change the amount they will pledge which hurts projects.
I also submit that if you want to do something like this, you need to go the other direction too, if a project fails to deliver, or fails to deliver what it should and on time, the project should incur a penalty and backers should get at least some percentage of their money returned. If you want to force backers into not backing out, then you should also force projects to deliver according to the info they provide those backers during the kickstarter... Good for the goose/good for the gander and all that.
Jake
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Post by: grefven
Another big issue that I am quite certain would arise to penitalize backers that withdraw their pledges is that more people would wait until the last very few days/hours before deciding to join. This would mean that less stretches would be unlocked, which would also result in that less people would want to join. The more stretches, the better deal, the more people.
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Post by: kestral
I've seen a picture of the pheonix armor bits, and it is basically a small sprue's worth, with options, which is pretty cool. Will all the "armors" be like that? I'd be more interested at that point. Are the kings men multipart models with any options, or a single monopose figure?
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Post by: RiTides
kestral- I'm pretty certain from the pics that the kingsmen are monopose (perhaps even a single piece?) figures.
They would make GREAT statues painted as granite a la the old static GW Emperor's Champion. There was a great pic of that painted as a statue with a Red Terror wrapped around it for Golden Demon that I can't find atm... with an extra 5 of the kingsmen, and the watcher and Phoenix, you could make a great diorama using them as statues ringed around an open space. It's actually what I had thought to do with the extras myself (or commission someone to do).
The armor kits obviously have a lot more options, not sure if they're all as extensive as the phoenix or not.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
All the armour kits are multi-part, multipose kits (makes 2 male and 2 female figures per kit), you get them either in the box game, with the survivor package or with some of the expansions
You can also buy extras of the rawhide and phoenix armour kits (only these two at the moment).
1 kit = $25 (4 minis)
5 kits = $50 (20 minis) Note you can't mix and match, pick rawhide OR phoenix
be aware that thse figures are LARGE (35mm) and may not mix well with other fantasy ranges, check out the BOLS article for a comparison shot (not saying you don't realise this, but it's worht putting in for those not keeping up with the thread
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/12/kingdom-death-monster-preview-pt-1.html
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Post by: The Fragile Breath
You can also buy extra Spider Silk armor kits. Is anyone else super stoked to find out what the Sunstalker expansion is like? Adam said it's his favorite content wise, so it must be pretty sweet! The armor silhouettes look sick as well.
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Post by: Azazelx
Fafnir wrote:That's assuming you're just going for volume of plastic.
Furthermore, a kickstarter shouldn't be about "gaming the system," but actually backing a project.
It depends on how/who you're doing this with. For example, my wife plays games with me and is learning to paint. Even though I buy most of the toys in this genre, she also buys her own figures, dice, boardgames etc from time to time. If I were all over this KS and she were as well (and paying $300-odd herself), there should be no issues with both of us going in, even though we're at the same address and a couple. She went in on Kings of War and Judge Dredd herself, after all.. Probably a more common scenario - if two brothers sharing a house went in individually, there should also be no issue.
And hell, two pledges of $300 each is hardly "gaming the system" anyway - it's a ton of money... if people wanted to go down this route I could summon Zwei and a conversation about "pre-orders on Kickstarter"... Automatically Appended Next Post: grefven wrote:Another big issue that I am quite certain would arise to penitalize backers that withdraw their pledges is that more people would wait until the last very few days/hours before deciding to join. This would mean that less stretches would be unlocked, which would also result in that less people would want to join. The more stretches, the better deal, the more people.
I certainly wouldn't be pledging before the 11th hour. On anything.
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Post by: BrookM
I've read all the wish lists and I've thought long and hard about a holiday gift for everyone that has been sharing these last few weeks with me and this crazy campaign.
Tomorrow I will be posting the details, for now you'll just have to look at the box!
If you are pledging on someone else's behalf, Anna made this cute little e-card that you are free to use. Just right click on it and select "save-as", feel free to email or print it out.
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Post by: Azazelx
My Christmas Wish is for a well-laid out pictograph map of what you get in the base game and Survivor. Like the ones Unca McVey made.
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Post by: Lt. Coldfire
Let's be nice for Christmas. ~ Manchu
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Post by: RiTides
On Christmas eve, Coldfire? Probably want to edit that out.
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Post by: Sidstyler
Yeah! You...
MONSTER.
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Post by: Lt. Coldfire
Christmas is the season of giving though
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Post by: Alpharius
To be fair though, Scipio is a bit of a Rain Cloud at times... but we still love him!
Merry Christmas all!
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Post by: Sinful Hero
800k hit!
Merry Christmas everyone!
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Post by: Buzzsaw
And a Christmas gift from Kingdom Death;
Thank you Gift!
Update #35 · Dec. 25, 2012 · 25 comments
I gotta admit, trying to figure out a gift for everyone was really tough! I've been reading wish lists, creating spreadsheets and getting totally overwhelmed!
I was working on my laptop, hanging out with everyone while they cooked for today's party when finally a really simple thought struck me. I thought, why don't I get a little more personal and give everyone something that means a lot to me.
My gift to you friends, family, fans, backers and supporters is the single piece of all of Kingdom Death that is the most significant to me. The Twilight Knight. Anyone that pledges their support at any level that includes physical goods being shipped to you, will get a plastic Twilight Knight.
The Twilight Knight was the very first character and the first imagined part of Kingdom Death. To me, he is the main character, the potential protagonist of hundreds of stories ( ell ending in death naturally ) and the thankless hero to many. He stands toe to toe with nightmares and stares into the incomprehensible depths that would instantly drive a normal man to insanity. What is to me, so special about the Twilight Knight is that he isn't really special. He is not a force of nature, nor a super powered human, magically fueled by an entity for any reason. He is a man who's had his poor brain scrambled, given a weird sword and a cloak made from barely understood nightmares ( his cloak is basically a watcher clock tho it would be very hard to explain the details of this quickly ) and sent out to try and preserve the little shreds of mankind he comes across. To me he represents some of the great sacrifices one would have to make in order to even have the slightest chance of survival.
Taking the character to concept art and finally a sculpted incarnation, was a very long winded task! It took a Months to find a artist I was both excited about and was willing to work with me. For anyone else out there who wants to put a project together.. one of the hardest parts is the start. Once I had the artwork, I had to find another artist a sculptor and oh man… the poor twilight knight was sculpted a total of 4 times. I am not talking about variations on him, I mean the very same character!
The first time was with Eli Livingston a Brooklyn based sculptor whom I can't even remember how we got in contact with each other. He does sculpting stuff mostly for movies and while he never sculpted a miniature, he was excited about giving it a try. 9 months later I had a figure I was well, not satisfied with. I thanked him, paid him for his time and moved on. The second person to sculpt the Twilight Knight was a young sculpted named Domenico Ambrosecchia , he sculpted the alternate twilight knight thats included in the gift of death gift box. I quite like it, but I know it could not be the final version of the character. I and been chatting on and off with Michael Bigard aka MIKH. He was very kind and loved the early Kingdom Death concept art. He enthusiastically provided me with a lot of sculptors to contact and some friendly advice. i talked him into sculpting a Twilight Knight which as well… been sitting unfinished for many years now. Mikh told me that he was having some troubles as an artist and was unsure if he could finish in any sort of timely fashion he offered his apologizes to myself and the project.
So while I can totally understand what happened… I was left with no final Twilight Knight! I approached Yannick Hennabo with the project, a french sculptor that does a lot of work with Mike McvVey and Infinity miniatures. This was our first project together and honestly, I was willing to just give it a shot. Worst case scenario I would just have him commissioned again. However, Yannick's sculpted incarnation of the character, took my breath away. I was floored, enchanted and just electrified with excitement.
Due to a shipping mishap, the Knights Sword was broken and part of it lost in the mail. The caster made a new one and well… It was ok. When I finally had the resin figure assembled and in my hands I kept eyeing the sword. Over the course of a few more months… I just couldn't take it anymore. The minor imperfection in the newly made sword blossomed into a full blown concept of his weapon. Why did it look the way it does? Its supposed to be a very important blade and really its always feel by the wayside. The artist's job was to focus on the character, his weapon was always a second thought. This showed thru in the sculpting stage and when the "imperfect" sword was lost, I decide that it was the perfect opportunity to revisit the sword and treat it as its own character.
I worked with the artist and we created a much better realized version of the Twilight Sword. A long and heavy signature weapon, requiring both strength and finesse to wield properly. It's emblem-less hilt and the strange parchment wrapped around the blade grip. To me, it was the perfect envisioning of the weapon and Thomas David agreed to sculpt it for him.
Finally this project after nearly 4 years of work and several different artists was complete. No other character has such a long story that affected so many people. His pinup incarnation has proven to be the most popular miniature in the Kingdom Death range and now I fondly gift to you the character she was based on. The Twilight Knight, a character & sculpture that means a tremendous amount to me personally.
Thank you SO VERY MUCH for being part of this kickstarter and happy holidays!
Now for the biggest update image EVER!
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Post by: RiTides
Perfect! That is my favorite model of his. I consider it and the Flower Knight to be true masterpieces.
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Post by: Alpharius
Pretty cool gift, and very cool story - and a welcome addition to the Kingdom Death Kickstarter!
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Superb
and really good to see the evlution of KD involved in it
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Post by: grefven
A perfect Christmas gift. It would have been even more cool had the Twilight Pinup been added as an optional miniature. :p
Adam's favourite miniature together with the fan's favourite miniature. A perfect combination.
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Post by: Zweischneid
grefven wrote:A perfect Christmas gift. It would have been even more cool had the Twilight Pinup been added as an optional miniature. :p
Adam's favourite miniature together with the fan's favourite miniature. A perfect combination.
She may arrive in time, I am sure
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Fafnir wrote:Sounds like a pretty silly reason to pull out, but whatever.
It's Kickstarter. This is Dakka. The combination creates irrational behaviour in a number of our members.
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Post by: Fafnir
All this great news right on the heels of me finishing painting up my resin Twilight Knight (pictures sometime... Maybe...). Kind of disappointed for myself, but the Twilight Knight is a truly amazing sculpt, and I'm glad more people will be getting it.
Only downside I'm seeing is that my knight never came with a certificate of authenticity(weird), so I can't flaunt my knight's legitness above others. His paintjob will have to do that for me.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
There is a great Fan Made Calculator made by Jamie who calls it the Death Toll
http://kdm.host56.com/
Give it a try (on the PC Chrome and Firefox work great, IE9 does not)
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Post by: Alpharius
I know it is Holiday Week, but I was kind of hoping for a quick update on what the details are for the $800K goal, and what is next!
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Post by: Sasori
 Alpharius wrote:I know it is Holiday Week, but I was kind of hoping for a quick update on what the details are for the $800K goal, and what is next!
Looks like the Sunstalker Infant, from the picture.
I'm curious to see the Armor made from it.
I wonder if the King is going to be revealed at 1mil?
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Post by: The Fragile Breath
Nah, it's too tall to be an infant, the infant model looks short and stubby (as it should), this one seems much more sleek. Adam confirmed it's *at least 1,000 years old. I know I've been referring to it as an ancient Sunstalker, which I may continue to do, as it has a nice ring to it!
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Post by: Sasori
 The Fragile Breath wrote:Nah, it's too tall to be an infant, the infant model looks short and stubby (as it should), this one seems much more sleek. Adam confirmed it's *at least 1,000 years old. I know I've been referring to it as an ancient Sunstalker, which I may continue to do, as it has a nice ring to it!
Looking closer, you may be right. I'm interested to see it revealed none the less!
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Post by: DaveC
interesting post by Ed from Trollforged on his KS update:
Hey everyone I wanted you to see a few samples we cast last week for us and also other possible clients. These are samples mind you quickly rushed but gives everyone the idea how these will work and look when finished. It also shows how planning can prevent a lot of issues in the casting process. I picked a very delicate sculpt from Kingdom Death (Hope Adam does not mind), and a very thick odd shaped base. This shows you more how everything will look. My sculpts are being done with the process in mind directly and will be some of the best around because of this.
Full update here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/131182444/assimilation-alien-host/posts/375725
Pin Up Preacher test piece in Trollcast.
Looks very promising and I hope they can work together as it seems Ed has plans to further expand his business next year.
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Post by: Dentry
Impressive. Very impressive for being "quickly rushed".
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Ed really is a craftsman
Hope this features in the KS (or in Trollforged in the KD store soon)
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Post by: RiTides
 DaveC wrote:interesting post by Ed from Trollforged on his KS update:
Hey everyone I wanted you to see a few samples we cast last week for us and also other possible clients. These are samples mind you quickly rushed but gives everyone the idea how these will work and look when finished. It also shows how planning can prevent a lot of issues in the casting process. I picked a very delicate sculpt from Kingdom Death (Hope Adam does not mind), and a very thick odd shaped base. This shows you more how everything will look. My sculpts are being done with the process in mind directly and will be some of the best around because of this.
Full update here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/131182444/assimilation-alien-host/posts/375725
Pin Up Preacher test piece in Trollcast.
Looks very promising and I hope they can work together as it seems Ed has plans to further expand his business next year.
Yeah, if Adam ends up using Ed / Trollforged for ALL the casting I'm going to end up wanting way more of these minis than I had originally planned! I would definitely be much more excited about something like what is shown above, than what is seen in the "Experiment of Death" box and pics shown earlier in the thread.
Awesome . However, at the scale KD would need Ed would have to hire a significant number of people, so it'll be interesting to see if he is involved if it ends up being for all the casting, or just weapons as mentioned by Adam previously, etc.
I had sent Ed a message through Kickstarter asking for a few pics of Tre's stuff, but apparently all the casts already shipped... getting this sample shown is pretty sweet bonus though
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Post by: antalas
scipio.au wrote:My Christmas Wish is for a well-laid out pictograph map of what you get in the base game and Survivor. Like the ones Unca McVey made.
Is this not good enough for you? The link is from the KD main KS page just below the game play video.
http://kingdomdeath.com/ks_images/kingdomdeathv750.jpg
There is also Adam's full text breakdown of the $100 game box.
http://kingdomdeath.com/ks_images/text-box-contents.jpg
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Post by: Lt. Coldfire
*gasp* antalas, how dare you use common sense and logic!
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Post by: DB
does anybody know when the survivor stretch goal rewards have been given? from reading this forum it sounds like there has only been 1 reward in the last $400,000.00 made? and that was in the last week.... due to people complaining.... is that right?! if so what sort of stretch goal system is that? i think some people on here are right - this looks really unfair, and not what was promised by the owner of kingdom death. im thinking of putting my money into the next interesting KS arriving on the 1st jan now instead of keeping it in this one. 
i think its important for someone in the know to update the new pic list with the details as to when each thing was released / earned - theres no way of knowing the real deal as to how KD has progressed, and how people have been thanked for their money - be it by being given stretch goals or by being offered the unique chance of buying yet more $40 sets to make the $100 full game actually complete....
you can probably tell from that that im in the slightly narked off group of investors
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Post by: Cyporiean
DB, look at the picture posted about two posts before your's.
Everything that isn't 'The Core Game', Paul, Aya, Adam, Anna, and a T-Shirt were stretch goal additions.
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Post by: The Fragile Breath
Although, weren't Paul and Aya stretch goals too?
Edit: I feel like this gets discussed every two pages. Adam has already given us a lot for the Survivor level, keep in mind the point of kickstarter is for us to help him fund his game, we get some sweet stuff for helping out, but it's not all about us. At least, that's my perception of kickstarter.
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Post by: DB
 Cyporiean wrote:DB, look at the picture posted about two posts before your's.
Everything that isn't 'The Core Game', Paul, Aya, Adam, Anna, and a T-Shirt were stretch goal additions.
thanks for that - but that shows my worry to be correct - there has not been more than 1 stretch goal in the last $400,000.00 made by kingdom death - is that fair to everyone who believed the whole 'stretch goal' point that survivor was supposed to be?
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Post by: gunslingerpro
DB wrote:
i think its important for someone in the know to update the new pic list with the details as to when each thing was released / earned - theres no way of knowing the real deal as to how KD has progressed, and how people have been thanked for their money - be it by being given stretch goals or by being offered the unique chance of buying yet more $40 sets to make the $100 full game actually complete....
Or you could, you know, read the updates? Automatically Appended Next Post: DB wrote:
thanks for that - but that shows my worry to be correct - there has not been more than 1 stretch goal in the last $400,000.00 made by kingdom death - is that fair to everyone who believed the whole 'stretch goal' point that survivor was supposed to be?
Um, define fair? Not every stretch goal is free. Instead, they're discounted expansions. Not to mention the contents of the box have almost doubled.
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Post by: Cyporiean
DB wrote: Cyporiean wrote:DB, look at the picture posted about two posts before your's.
Everything that isn't 'The Core Game', Paul, Aya, Adam, Anna, and a T-Shirt were stretch goal additions.
thanks for that - but that shows my worry to be correct - there has not been more than 1 stretch goal in the last $400,000.00 made by kingdom death - is that fair to everyone who believed the whole 'stretch goal' point that survivor was supposed to be?
Did he ever say that Survivor was the 'Set it and forget it' level?
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Post by: Schmapdi
DB wrote: Cyporiean wrote:DB, look at the picture posted about two posts before your's.
Everything that isn't 'The Core Game', Paul, Aya, Adam, Anna, and a T-Shirt were stretch goal additions.
thanks for that - but that shows my worry to be correct - there has not been more than 1 stretch goal in the last $400,000.00 made by kingdom death - is that fair to everyone who believed the whole 'stretch goal' point that survivor was supposed to be?
Also the Savior - which was a free, recent addition, and the free Twilight Knight he gave everyone (not just Survivor+) last night as a Christmas present.
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Post by: DB
 gunslingerpro wrote:DB wrote:
i think its important for someone in the know to update the new pic list with the details as to when each thing was released / earned - theres no way of knowing the real deal as to how KD has progressed, and how people have been thanked for their money - be it by being given stretch goals or by being offered the unique chance of buying yet more $40 sets to make the $100 full game actually complete....
Or you could, you know, read the updates?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DB wrote:
thanks for that - but that shows my worry to be correct - there has not been more than 1 stretch goal in the last $400,000.00 made by kingdom death - is that fair to everyone who believed the whole 'stretch goal' point that survivor was supposed to be?
Um, define fair? Not every stretch goal is free. Instead, they're discounted expansions. Not to mention the contents of the box have almost doubled.
no disrespect mate but you are missing my point again - you are right - but that lot happened $400,000.00 ago....... whats happened between $400,000.00 and $800,000.00 about survivor stretch goals - is what i meant ... it appears that theres been only 1 actual single figure reward for SURVIVOR pledgers (the savior), with lots of 'buy more' expansions.
The Fragile Breath wrote:
keep in mind the point of kickstarter is for us to help him fund his game, we get some sweet stuff for helping out, but it's not all about us. At least, that's my perception of kickstarter.
agreed bud - but he needed $35,000.00 for that - everything else is just gravy , $35,000.00 to $400,000.00 achieved all the free 25 figs t shirt etc and some 'additional spend' figs - so it looks like $400,000.00 to $800,000.00 has only afforded a few new 'additional spend' figures, and 2 free figs (1 survivor fig (the savior) and 1 general free fig (the chrimbo gift from last night))
does that make sense?
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Post by: Buzzsaw
DB wrote: gunslingerpro wrote:DB wrote:
i think its important for someone in the know to update the new pic list with the details as to when each thing was released / earned - theres no way of knowing the real deal as to how KD has progressed, and how people have been thanked for their money - be it by being given stretch goals or by being offered the unique chance of buying yet more $40 sets to make the $100 full game actually complete....
Or you could, you know, read the updates?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DB wrote:
thanks for that - but that shows my worry to be correct - there has not been more than 1 stretch goal in the last $400,000.00 made by kingdom death - is that fair to everyone who believed the whole 'stretch goal' point that survivor was supposed to be?
Um, define fair? Not every stretch goal is free. Instead, they're discounted expansions. Not to mention the contents of the box have almost doubled.
no disrespect mate but you are missing my point again - you are right - but that lot happened $400,000.00 ago....... whats happened between $400,000.00 and $800,000.00 about survivor stretch goals - is what i meant ... it appears that theres been only 1 actual single figure reward for SURVIVOR pledgers (the savior), with lots of 'buy more' expansions.
Not to pile on, but the notion that there is some base pledge level where things simply get added on and on (ala Reaper's Bones campaign) is by no means universal. The campaign I would consider the single best example of what kickstarter can achieve is Dreamforge games, which gave people... uh, 2 free figures?
You also have to realize, when you get into the thousands of backers like this has, adding anything is a tremendous expense. Just consider the Twilight Knight gift: assuming an end around 5,000 backers, that's around $75,000 worth of product he's going to be sending out. Now, it's certainly a lot less then that in terms of the cost to him, but it's no small sum because it not only needs to be produced, shipped, then repacked and shipped again. This is why when you look at the stretch goals for Reaper's Bones, the additions to the Vampire pledge level started getting really far apart, and started including things like free PDF's.
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Post by: RiTides
Cyporiean wrote:DB, look at the picture posted about two posts before your's.
Everything that isn't 'The Core Game', Paul, Aya, Adam, Anna, and a T-Shirt were stretch goal additions.
This is incorrect- Adam, Anna, and the T-shirt are listed in the Survivor pledge level description (just look on the right of the Kickstarter page). They were included since Day 1. Paul and Aya were stretch additions, however.
And while I completely agree with Buzzsaw that a KS is not at all obligated to make a "sweet spot" pledge level where freebies are added, Adam actually stated that that's what the Survivor level would be (paraphasing: "the level to get most of the stretch rewards"). It is in fact that, as is Herald of Death, as is the base box game and really any pledge if you want the Twilight Knight
Basically, I can see both sides and don't think it's worth fighting about. People will vote with their wallets, and most are voting "yes". If I knew for a fact (as it's still a huge unknown) that Adam were going with Trollforged instead of Super Dungeon Explore-type plastic, I'd say it's a much better deal. As it is, it just really depends on the quality of the figures whether it's a good deal or not ( imo) and of course the game.
Many people have faith that Adam will deliver on both aspects. For me, if the game turns out to be good I'll pay more and buy it then or if the gameplay doesn't appeal to me but the plastic does, I can buy the figures I like when they're available or failing BOTH of those, I can hunt down a few resins for a better quality. There's no way to know until he reveals more details, so it's going to be a bit of a shot in the dark based on what you know so far... just like most kickstarters.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
There's already quite a tremendous amount of value in just the boxed game alone. Why complain that you're not getting enough freebies?
Anyway, I would certainly cast my vote for Trollforged, if it's possible.
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Post by: gunslingerpro
DB wrote:
no disrespect mate but you are missing my point again - you are right - but that lot happened $400,000.00 ago....... whats happened between $400,000.00 and $800,000.00 about survivor stretch goals - is what i meant ... it appears that theres been only 1 actual single figure reward for SURVIVOR pledgers (the savior), with lots of 'buy more' expansions.
I promise you, I fully understand what your point is. It's just not a rather good one.
RITides made the point that Survivor was supposed to be the 'get the most rewards' level. And it is, except for maybe Herald of Death, which is a price point, not a pledge level.
You seem to believe that (More money raised = more free additions to the Survivor level). While that was the initial focus, (and, it can be argued, the recent focus with two new additions), the focus of the Kickstarter now well beyond the funding achievement has seemingly shifted to expanding the model line and universe. It's a stretch goal, not a stretch reward.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
A most disturbing (and amazing) update appears!
800K on Christmas Day! 850k Stretch Goal here We Go!
Update #36 · Dec. 26, 2012 · 5 comments
Good (late) evening everyone!
I will try my best to be brief, as the holiday gift update got a bit long winded. I hope everyone whom is celebrated the holidays is having a wonderful time, eating plenty and playing with lots of new toys.
The Wii U has been a shocking hit around these parts, no one expected to be yet, I can hear everyone yelling at it from across the apartment!
The Sunstalker is a monster that can "swim" through light. A known technique to hunt these dangerous entity is to travel with a strongly dyed piece of fabric and monitor it closely for strange color shifts and desaturation patterns. Ancient Sunstalkers will sleep for centuries at a time, floating high in the sky and pulse with vibrant rays of light as they slowly and deeply breath. The expansion comes with rules for starting out as a tribe of humans that worship an ancient sunstalker much like people of our history worshiped the sun. By doing so your starting settlement setup will be different, as will your final goal and you can earn access to the People of the Sun gear list. In addition to an Adult Sunstalker Miniature and the Sunstalker Armor kits, I'll be including a unique Priest ( not picture as of yet ) & Miko. These two miniatures will not be armor kit compatible, as they are unique ceremonial characters and the tribe does not allow their outfit to be mixed with other armor sets.
I am still working on the second gameplay video, I still cannot offer a firm date on when it will be complete, but I can promise everyone it will be before the campaign ends. Everyone is on vacation right now so slowed things down more then I initially expected.
I have only 2 more gameplay expansion planned! If there is more demand for gameplay content after that, I'll have to get very creative as the production pipeline is pretty much pack! Adding any more large content will make the nov 2013 date nearly impossible to hit and I will really have to be extra careful! I think some super small stuff can get squeezed in, but certainly no more major expansions!
Thank you all again!
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Post by: cincydooley
Right on Buzz. This stretch is simply amazing. I'm pretty sure ill be in for $300; how I'm going to divvy that up is the real question.
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Post by: antalas
DB wrote:
no disrespect mate but you are missing my point again - you are right - but that lot happened $400,000.00 ago....... whats happened between $400,000.00 and $800,000.00 about survivor stretch goals - is what i meant ... it appears that theres been only 1 actual single figure reward for SURVIVOR pledgers (the savior), with lots of 'buy more' expansions.
agreed bud - but he needed $35,000.00 for that - everything else is just gravy , $35,000.00 to $400,000.00 achieved all the free 25 figs t shirt etc and some 'additional spend' figs - so it looks like $400,000.00 to $800,000.00 has only afforded a few new 'additional spend' figures, and 2 free figs (1 survivor fig (the savior) and 1 general free fig (the chrimbo gift from last night))
does that make sense?
Here is a list of what has been added for FREE so far. Granted not all of the free stuff has been to the Survivor Pledge level. There have also been free expansions for pledges over $300 and free minis added to some of the additional expansions. Still there has been plenty additions to the Survivor box between 400k and 800k.
55k - Unarmored Armor Kit added to basic game box
80k - Rawhide Armor Kit doubled in Survivor box
105k - Phoenix model doubled in Survivor box
140k - Lantern Armor Kit added to basic game box
185k - Watcher model doubled in Survivor box
200k - Phoenix Armor Kit doubled in Survivor box
225k - 5 King’s Men models added to the Survivor box
275k - Paul the Survivor added to the Survivor box
285k - Fur Armor Kit added to the basic game box (listed as ‘the last expansion for the core box’ in update #10, 24th Nov)
350k - Lion Armor Kit doubled in the Survivor box
400k - Aya the Survivor model added to the Survivor box
- Canadian shipping lowered to $30
420k - Adam & Anna kickstarter exclusive models added to the Survivor box
425k - 10 Stone Face base inserts added to basic game box
475k - Extra Survivor Heads added to the Survivor box
- Man Hunter Expansion free for ‘Herald of Death’ pledges of $300 or more
500k - Rawhide Whip added to basic box
535k - Regeneration Suit added to Gorm Expansion for free
585k - Lion Knight Expansion free for ‘Herald of Death’ pledges of $300 or more
600k - Lion Court added to the Lion Knight Expansion
625k - King’s Men Painting Tutorial added to rule book
725k - Snow the Savior model added to the Survior box
780k - Twilight Knight model added to all pledges with physical goods (Merry Chrismas!)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The best value is still to get the game box expansions.
Expansions:
+ $15 Flower Knight Expansion (MSRP $30)
+ $20 Man Hunter Expansion (MSRP $30) OR FREE with a $300 or more pledge.
+ $25 Lion Knight Expansion (MSRP $35) OR FREE with a $300 or more pledge.
+ $25 Dung Beetle Knight Expansion (MSRP $35)
+ $30 Dragon King Expansion (MSRP $60)
+ $40 Gorm Expansion (MSRP $60)
+ $40 Spidicules Expansion (MSRP $65)
+ $45 Sunstalker Expansion (MSRP $70)
With this current stretch goal $350 will get you the Survivor box plus all the expansions so far which is roughly a $800 MSRP value. $500 retail for the basic box and expansions and $300+ worth of free stuff that has been added to the Survivor level pledge.
The pinups are nice and I want them all but I'll probably wait to pick them up down the road. They are $15 now or $18 after the kickstarter for plastic and $25 for the resin now or later. Might have to but extra armor kits and bases though, as Adam has said that those will not be available after the kickstarter.
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Post by: Dentry
antalas wrote:The best value is still to get the game box expansions.
.
.
.
The pinups are nice and I want them all but I'll probably wait to pick them up down the road. They are $15 now or $18 after the kickstarter for plastic and $25 for the resin now or later. Might have to but extra armor kits and bases though, as Adam has said that those will not be available after the kickstarter.
Aye. I think that's the general consensus of those of us without too much money to spare.
I'm slightly concerned on the issue of availability after the kickstarter ends. Kingdom Death miniatures have never been produced in great quantity and are often sold at premiums because of their scarcity. Also, I believe Adam's stated he currently has no plans to change this manufacturing strategy post-kickstarter or post-launch. So we could be in for a wait if we can't grab 'em now.
All said, I'm sure it's not a real issue to most. Just food for thought.
Edit: Must have missed it, but where was the retail price on the plastic pinups stated?
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Post by: Schmapdi
Dentry wrote:
Edit: Must have missed it, but where was the retail price on the plastic pinups stated?
The top right corner of every "entry" has a listed Kickstarter price with MSRP listed underneath it.
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Post by: Dentry
Schmapdi wrote:Dentry wrote:
Edit: Must have missed it, but where was the retail price on the plastic pinups stated?
The top right corner of every "entry" has a listed Kickstarter price with MSRP listed underneath it.
I'll be damned. Don't spend much time on the front page but, sure enough, there it is as you've said.
Thanks for the info.
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Post by: Bromsy
Well, if I'm going to stick to my $300 limit I guess I need to start picking and choosing expansions...
Dragon King and Spidicules are definitely in, and the Sunstalker looks awesome too.
Leaving me with $30 bucks left. This could get tough.
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Post by: Sasori
I'm at 350 on the dot right now, so it looks like I'm going to get pushed into the 400$ range if we have two more major expansions left.
The Sunstalker one is really cool as well, Probably my favorite expansion so far!
Can't wait to see what we have left to go!
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Adam has indeed blessed us with lots of cool stuff to pledge for
so we will bless him with loads of cash
seems a fair deal to me
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Post by: BrookM
Amazing campaign, right now we're at $395 ourselves (My brother decided to take on half the load) and from the look of it, we will be heading into the lofty $400 territories as well.
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Post by: squall018
I'm at 300, I think I'm gonna have to move up to get the sunstalker. This will be the third "limit" I've put on myself for this project.
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Post by: The Fragile Breath
My girlfriend is also going halfsies with me on this, we're up to 315 currently. But I really want the Dung Beetle Knight and I've already axed the Dragon Sacrifice. I was tempted to change my pledge from Survivor back down to normal, but I don't think I can turn down all the nice things in Survivor. I could very easily see us getting to 400 as well, especially since we're still on the fence about the Gorm (she does want the Regeneration Suit anyways, otherwise we might not be so tempted).
For some reason, when he said he only has two expansions left, I take it as one minor and one major, but I have nothing to back that up, only that usually we unlock a minor, then a major, then a minor, and so on in that fashion. I believe that was not the case for the last two expansions, however.
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Post by: Alpharius
"The King" is still left out there for us to unlock - that's got to be the remaining 'Major".
As for the Minor... I've no idea!
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Post by: RiTides
antalas, this is why it would be good if Adam would himself make a graphic (or even just text list) for the Survivor contents, there's so hard to keep track of. Your list has Adam and Anna supposedly added as an add-on to Survivor at 420K, but as I already pointed out above, they are listed in the text description under the Survivor pledge level and were included since Day 1!
An intrepid fan made that text list, as well as the graphical one. However, for days people were quoting the graphical one, and a quick glance at it showed several errors which I pointed out to the person and they got fixed...
Hopefully this doesn't come across snarky (I don't intend it to be) but there's a bit of an echo effect in here with what is in Survivor- most people are copying/pasting what one person jotted down, and it's not totally correct!
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Post by: jake
DB wrote:does anybody know when the survivor stretch goal rewards have been given? from reading this forum it sounds like there has only been 1 reward in the last $400,000.00 made? and that was in the last week.... due to people complaining.... is that right?! if so what sort of stretch goal system is that? i think some people on here are right - this looks really unfair, and not what was promised by the owner of kingdom death. im thinking of putting my money into the next interesting KS arriving on the 1st jan now instead of keeping it in this one.
i think its important for someone in the know to update the new pic list with the details as to when each thing was released / earned - theres no way of knowing the real deal as to how KD has progressed, and how people have been thanked for their money - be it by being given stretch goals or by being offered the unique chance of buying yet more $40 sets to make the $100 full game actually complete....
you can probably tell from that that im in the slightly narked off group of investors
This is a stunning example of both greed and a real lack of understanding of what Kickstarter is for.
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Post by: RiTides
Argh jake, don't start us down that path here.
Kickstarter is a crowd-funding platform- it is what people make of it. It bothers me when people post on Either side of the issue saying "what Kickstarter is for".
Can we focus on the amazing offerings of Kingdom Death and leave the bigger issues for Dakka Discussions, please?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote:"The King" is still left out there for us to unlock - that's got to be the remaining 'Major".
As for the Minor... I've no idea!
I totally forgot about the King by now but you must be right!
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Post by: antalas
I complied that list from the updates, but you're right they were included but at 420k extra box content was added for them. Extra heads and game content so that now they have their own game scenario and cards and you can use their heads with any of the the armor kits.
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Post by: jake
RiTides wrote:Argh jake, don't start us down that path here.
Kickstarter is a crowd-funding platform- it is what people make of it. It bothers me when people post on Either side of the issue saying "what Kickstarter is for".
I'm sorry it bothers you. Here's what bothers me. Adam has been extremely generous with this Kickstarter, offering the basic game with a very large amount of content at a great discount, expansions at a great discount, plenty of discounted single miniatures and a number of free miniatures at different levels. The base box by itself, with no extra stuff at all, is a fantastic deal (in my opinion). In addition to all that Adam has been quick to communicate and very upfront about his decisions throughout the entire Kickstarter. So what bothers me is when people complain that they aren't getting enough free stuff. That they're entitled to more free stuff. That they'll back out of the Kickstarter because they haven't received as much free stuff as they wanted. That Adam is somehow abusing his position by not offering even more free stuff.
This is greed. It bothers me that people feel this way. It bothers me that people feel like they can come on to Dakka and post these kind of complaints without looking like jerks. Not because they shouldn't be able to post whatever they want, but because they clearly believe that their greed is not only justified but shared by others. It bothers me even more that posts like that don't evoke more outrage.
Of course not everyone supports Kickstarter projects out of altruism. I imagine most of us support the projects that will produce things we want, and we're enticed to support those projects not just because we want to see the project succeed, not just because we want the end result in our hands, but because the creators of these projects offer us incentives that we couldn't otherwise get. There's nothing wrong with this. There is something VERY wrong with the massive sense of entitlement that would make someone think it was okay to complain that they aren't getting enough free stuff from an already very generous Kickstarter.
Anyway, I'm sorry this isn't something you want to discuss here RiTides. I think it's extremely relevant to this thread and this Kickstarter.
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Post by: RiTides
And with that, back to talking about Kingdom Death!
You've made your point, but not everyone is going to have the same definition of generosity or greed, as yours is quite strong on both counts. I appreciate your explaining your opinion but if you want to discuss it further you really should start a thread in Discussions.
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Post by: jake
RiTides wrote:And with that, back to talking about Kingdom Death!
You've made your point, but not everyone is going to have the same definition of generosity or greed, as yours is quite strong on both counts. I appreciate your explaining your opinion but if you want to discuss it further you really should start a thread in Discussions.
My comments are absolutely on topic, discussing Kingdom Death and Kickstarter as well as addressing other comments made in this thread. You've made it clear that this isn't something that you want to discuss, but since you're not the moderator of this thread (as far as I know) I don't think it's fair for you to try to decide what is and is not appropriate for discussion here. If this aspect of the thread bothers you I'd advise you to simply ignore it. Possibly you could even use the Ignore function. I believe that's what its for.
Edit: I don't mean to be antagonistic. Please don't think that. I do think this is a relevant part of the Kingdom Death discussion though, especially since it's a response to a kind of post and attitude toward this project which has become more and more common (although thankfully still just a small minority) in the last two weeks.
------------------------------------------------------------
I have an unrelated question. Can anyone suggest a good glue for assembling Kingdom Death resin models. I'm hoping to put my Preacher together this weekend, but I don't want to test out a glue only to accidentally ruin the model. I've used Gale Force Nine Hobby Glue on Forgeworld models in the past, but I haven't always been satisfied with the results.
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Post by: Fafnir
Any superglue will do.
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Post by: jake
Thanks. The reason I asked is because last time I glues a resin model together it just didn't take, and after a few hours would just fall apart. Hmm, in hindsight that may have been because I didn't clean them well enough before assembling.
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Post by: Sasori
We should hit the 850 Stretch goal today, I'm looking forward to the silhouette of the 900k Stretch Goal!
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Post by: RiTides
Yeah, I'm very interested in seeing what will be up for 900K... I have a feeling it will only be the minor expansion, with the major (the King!) saved for 1 MILLION
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Post by: Sasori
RiTides wrote:Yeah, I'm very interested in seeing what will be up for 900K... I have a feeling it will only be the minor expansion, with the major (the King!) saved for 1 MILLION
He said he had two more expansions left, but I don't remember him explicitly saying they were a Minor/Major one. Did he say that some point?
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Post by: RiTides
I don't think so, just speculation from the last page:
The Fragile Breath wrote:For some reason, when he said he only has two expansions left, I take it as one minor and one major, but I have nothing to back that up, only that usually we unlock a minor, then a major, then a minor, and so on in that fashion. I believe that was not the case for the last two expansions, however.
Alpharius wrote:"The King" is still left out there for us to unlock - that's got to be the remaining 'Major".
As for the Minor... I've no idea!
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
The excellent 'Death Toll' visual pledge calculator put together by Jamie has had to move web address as we 'ate up' all his free bandwidth stunningly fast. I belive it's now being hosted by another backer (sorry I can't give them credit but I missed that bit of the comments stream)
The new address is
http://kdm.bortian.net/
once again chrome/firefox for the PC work well (& IE does not). I'm not sure of Mac/Mobile functionality
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Post by: endtransmission
It works in Firefox on the mac, but you can't scroll down to see all of the items in the right hand column for some reason (not sure if it behaves this way in other browsers) it just scrolls the centre column with all the options.
It's a neat little tool that would be good for other kickstarters to pick up and use as part of an official campaign. It'd save so many arguments of "I don't know what the options are"
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Post by: Zweischneid
endtransmission wrote:It works in Firefox on the mac, but you can't scroll down to see all of the items in the right hand column for some reason (not sure if it behaves this way in other browsers) it just scrolls the centre column with all the options.
It's a neat little tool that would be good for other kickstarters to pick up and use as part of an official campaign. It'd save so many arguments of "I don't know what the options are"
Or, you know, Kickstarter could simply start using a simply shopping-cart* plug-in for people to actually click through the options and add them to their pledge. Would probably take an Elance-Pakistani with some ecommerce background around 30 minutes to install.
*Obviously called something else to appease the "it's not a shop" crowd.
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Post by: RiTides
endtransmission wrote:It works in Firefox on the mac, but you can't scroll down to see all of the items in the right hand column for some reason (not sure if it behaves this way in other browsers) it just scrolls the centre column with all the options.
It's a neat little tool that would be good for other kickstarters to pick up and use as part of an official campaign. It'd save so many arguments of "I don't know what the options are"
I don't think I can scroll down the right hand column, either (which I assume would show what is in the currently selected item) in Chrome...
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Post by: jake
Zweischneid wrote: endtransmission wrote:It works in Firefox on the mac, but you can't scroll down to see all of the items in the right hand column for some reason (not sure if it behaves this way in other browsers) it just scrolls the centre column with all the options.
It's a neat little tool that would be good for other kickstarters to pick up and use as part of an official campaign. It'd save so many arguments of "I don't know what the options are"
Or, you know, Kickstarter could simply start using a simply shopping-cart* plug-in for people to actually click through the options and add them to their pledge. Would probably take an Elance-Pakistani with some ecommerce background around 30 minutes to install.
*Obviously called something else to appease the "it's not a shop" crowd.
The vast majority of Kickstarters wouldn't need to use it. Most Kickstarters just don't offer this amount of options, free or otherwise.
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Post by: Zweischneid
 jake wrote:
The vast majority of Kickstarters wouldn't need to use it. Most Kickstarters just don't offer this amount of options, free or otherwise.
So what? In those cases, it would be indistinguishable from the current system. You just add 1 "pledge-item" to your "cart" and you're set. You could also have various shipping costs calculated easily.
A simple "shopping-cart" system isn't any less comfortable if you just add one item. The only thing different from ... say .. Amazon .. would be that instead of clicking a "buy now"-button, the whole thing would only lock-in upon completion.
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Post by: jake
Zweischneid wrote: jake wrote:
The vast majority of Kickstarters wouldn't need to use it. Most Kickstarters just don't offer this amount of options, free or otherwise.
So what? In those cases, it would be indistinguishable from the current system. You just add 1 "pledge-item" to your "cart" and you're set. You could also have various shipping costs calculated easily.
A simple "shopping-cart" system isn't any less comfortable if you just add one item. The only thing different from ... say .. Amazon .. would be that instead of clicking a "buy now"-button, the whole thing would only lock-in upon completion.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice or useful, just that Kickstarter is probably not going to implement a feature that most Kickstarters won't use. The Kickstarter back end is notoriously bare bones. It's fine for relatively simple stuff, but I don't think it was designed with Kickstraters like Reaper Bones, Relic Knights or Kingdom Death in mind. Hopefully it will get an upgrade at some point.
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Post by: endtransmission
In order to bring this back on topic, we've just breached the 850k mark...
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Post by: RiTides
Hopefully that means silhoutte of the 900K expansion revealed tonight / early tomorrow morning (east coast US time).
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
awaken the Poots
awaken the Poots
(then run for your wallets!)
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Post by: kingdomdeath
!!!
The "death toll" pledge calculator is amazing! Does anyone know who made it? I would happily host it and give them ftp access.
Kickstarter Shopping Cart / Ecommerce Plugin
I highly doubt we will ever see this happen. Kickstarter is not a store and they are trying very hard to make sure that their users and the general public are aware that it is not a store. People that pledge on a kickstarter are referred to as backers and there is no mention anywhere in kickstarters fine print that they are either customers or investors. They are just that "backers". I wouldn't be surprised if in in the future kickstarter further defines their rules and does not allow campaigns to have options.
But who knows?
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Post by: grefven
Hey Adam. Any word yet on if any of your new items will be released in resin at a later date? I much rather want to spend the money on later resin releasing than on the plastic expansions (Dung Beetle Knight, Spider, Gorm, etc.).
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Adam, the writer is a KS user called Jamie
http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/699869208
Taken From the KS comments
You can contact Jamie at : kdmdeathtoll@gmail.com.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
We have reached 850k in pledges!
Update #37 · Dec. 28, 2012 · 1 comment
Well guys, we've done it... yet again! My mind is totally blown and I am not even sure what to say really!
So while I recover from the shock, let me just skip straight to the good stuff :
850k - We've unlocked the Sunstalker Dancer! You may add her to your rewards by increasing your Pledge by +$15 for a plastic version or +$25 for the resin version. She will be sculpted by Jon-Troy Nickel, the same artist that sculpted the original White Speaker, Pinup Twilight Knight, Pinup Preacher and Pinup Architect!
Second Gameplay Video
This is still a work in progress. I assure you it will be available before the campaign ends and will be uploaded ASAP.
900k - This is indeed a minor gameplay expansion, but the monster itself is not minor at all! Sculpted by Allan Carrasco and its... a bit nightmarish!
Questions - I apologize, the holidays put me behind on these, thanks!
I have to say that I have followed that sculptor a bit ( HazardousArts on deviantArt), and can say that his precious work is simply amazing.
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Post by: antalas
Yeah I watch Jon-Troy Nickel on da his sculpts are fantastic. Can't wait to see his finished Sunstalker Dancer.
Danny Cruz (deviant art id: dannycruz4) did the concept for the 900k monster, if anyone feels like looking. Not sure what it is, but I'll be picking one up.
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Post by: RiTides
Thanks for the heads up antalas, found it
Comments from the artist below it (he also did the Forge god and forge priest for KD)
last of the weird, sexualized creature designs from me..
thanks! unfortunately, i was dumped off this project a few months ago...but, i do have some more warped creature designs in my head...and also been on a giger kick as of late too. so just a matter of finding time for that..
ha thanks. truth be told, a lot of these designs were art directed to me and actually, the top creature was more or less already created. i worked from another artists sketch and aside from some tweaks here and there, they basically just wanted to have the creature done up in my style
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Post by: Alpharius
The $900K Stretch 'Minor' Expansion monster silhouette looks awesome!
Can't wait to see it, and my wallet dreads what's coming soon!
And the King must be the One Million Dollar stretch...
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Post by: RiTides
Thanks for the heads up antalas, found the non-silhouette version (second pic below)
Comments from the artist below it (he also did the Forge god and forge priest for KD)
last of the weird, sexualized creature designs from me..
thanks! unfortunately, i was dumped off this project a few months ago...but, i do have some more warped creature designs in my head...and also been on a giger kick as of late too. so just a matter of finding time for that..
ha thanks. truth be told, a lot of these designs were art directed to me and actually, the top creature was more or less already created. i worked from another artists sketch and aside from some tweaks here and there, they basically just wanted to have the creature done up in my style
Here also are more KD pics in the artist's game art gallery:
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Post by: Fafnir
Loving the labial lion. It'll be hard to pick and choose what expansions I want, but that's what it's come down to. Sunstalker Ancient and Dragon King will definitely be in.
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Post by: RiTides
Interestingly, that image was filtered as "sexually explicit" on deviantart... I'm guessing it's the penile tail at the bottom left of the image, which I just finally noticed...
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Post by: Azazelx
Alpharius wrote:To be fair though, Scipio is a bit of a Rain Cloud at times... but we still love him!
Merry Christmas all!
Actually, Adam was kind enough to send me a link with an unofficial pledge guide, so I can now see what's going on much more clearly.
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Post by: Fafnir
RiTides wrote:Interestingly, that image was filtered as "sexually explicit" on deviantart... I'm guessing it's the penile tail at the bottom left of the image, which I just finally noticed...
That, or because the face is a giant vulva.
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Post by: squall018
I would just like to say that I just got home from a night of heavy drinking, and even while drunk, those above pictures got me more excited than anything else tonight. This is one of the coolest projects ever!
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Post by: Schmapdi
Fafnir wrote: RiTides wrote:Interestingly, that image was filtered as "sexually explicit" on deviantart... I'm guessing it's the penile tail at the bottom left of the image, which I just finally noticed...
That, or because the face is a giant vulva.
Honestly, I didn't see it at first. Though I also didn't notice that was the lion's face either. I thought the big swoopy thing was a horn coming out the side of a the creatures head. I'm guessing it's a tongue though? Whatever it is it looks a little silly IMO.
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Post by: Sinful Hero
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Post by: The Fragile Breath
I'm loving the goat creature art, I'd love to see that in Monster! Assuming "the King" is the final expansion through kickstarter, maybe it'll appear later on? The 900k creature, I like it, but I'm not sure I love it. Maybe that's an expansion to get later on seeing as a couple minor expansions without a discount dent the wallet much less than a couple major expansions without a discount! That and I'm already probably getting the Dung Beetle knight later on, so it would make sense. I'm already assuming I'll be bumping my pledge up another ~$50 for the final expansion, and we'll see if I break down and get the Sunstalker Dancer. I like it, I love the Rogue types, but I wish she was a bit more covered up! I can't imagine that just Sunstalker teeth on your nipples would be that comfortable.
So... Spider Silk pin-up at 950k and "the King" at a million? Sound about right?
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Post by: DaveC
That's what I thought but Adam mentioned that he has an upgrade for the Dragon King expansion planned so whether that slots in before or after $1 million remains to be seen.
He also mentioned that the $900k creature will cost the same as the Beetle knight so $25 at last the financial end is in sight I reckon $25 plus $15 for another pin up and $40-$50 for the King should just about see this done depending on what happens after $1 million that is.
One last thing he mentioned is that the Illuminated lady can't be done in plastic at this time the details are to fine but she may be revisited later when the larger monster that she is part of gets worked on - sounds like a big expansion for the future.
And I really hope that Goat type monster turns up the artwork looks great
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Post by: RiTides
Yeah, I'm officially creeped out by this monster! I agree that the goat above it is pretty darn awesome, though. And this one would be, too, with a little bit less inuendo! (For my taste, of course)
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Post by: grefven
The goat looks quite neat, and I love everything about the lion apart from the "face". That just doesn't add anything to the miniature, in my opinion.
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Post by: Fafnir
I'm actually glad that Kingdom Death is moving back to that unsettling, sexual horror. It's that distinctly and privately human, but very much warped appeal that makes KD's creatures so good at conveying a sense of discomfort.
GW tried to do it with Slaanesh, but missed that one by miles (and doesn't seem to have any intention of trying to find that mark again).
Although, sticking with the whole "warped human perversion" motif, it would have been pretty cool to have the labia lion's mane be made of the same hands that are on various points of its and the phoenix's bodies. Done right, that would be amazing (and holyshitscary).
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Post by: Sidstyler
I think I agree with you on the monster design, it kind of reminds me of Giger's Alien in that way. But I don't really like the "sexy" pin-ups, though.
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Post by: Apple fox
 Sidstyler wrote:I think I agree with you on the monster design, it kind of reminds me of Giger's Alien in that way. But I don't really like the "sexy" pin-ups, though.
I agree with this, and the bigist reason I haven't thrown any support it's way :0 still not sure. I think that more discomforting then the monsters are a bit :0
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Post by: cincydooley
You realize that the pin ups are completely separate from the game, yes?
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Post by: Apple fox
 cincydooley wrote:You realize that the pin ups are completely separate from the game, yes?
Ohh yes I think it's actuly fairly honest and I was being a little silly. I actuly like the pinups even if I find them a little silly so all good
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Post by: Sidstyler
cincydooley wrote:You realize that the pin ups are completely separate from the game, yes?
I did, actually. Does that mean I have to start liking them?
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Post by: Absolutionis
It was more directed towards Apple Fox stating that he hasn't thrown support for the game due to the pinups. If the base game and expansions don't contain the pinups, there isn't much of a reason to not throw money at the project due to the existence of something that isn't in the base sets. However, there may be a basis behind morally opposing the subject of sexualized fanservice.
*morgan freeman freckle appears*
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Post by: Sidstyler
lol, oh okay, somehow I completely skipped over that post.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
Oooooooh, something is coming!
Mini Stretch Goal @ 875k! Dragon King Expansion Upgrade!
Update #38 · Dec. 29, 2012 · 1 comment
I am super pleased! The production / project management stars have aligned and we will be able to upgrade the Dragon King Expansion if we hit 875k!
Details will be posted then, for now enjoy this teaser :
I dunno what it is, but I like the look of (what I can only assume) is a fine walking stick...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Whatever it is I need it
(even if it has a walking stick made of hands)
grin
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Post by: UNCLEBADTOUCH
It's kingdom death so that may not be a walking cane, it could be a proboscis or someo other *ahem* appendage.
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Post by: devilution
Does anyone know if he got a deal with a overseas warehouse?
Or if there will be any way to ship the items from UK/EU?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I belive Adam may be waiting to see how the Sedition Wars 3rd party shipping works out before making a decision as he's concerned things may not run to his high standards without him to supervise things. If the SW stuff goes well he may be persuaded otherwise
But at present I'd say it's unlikely (and we won't get a decision before the KS ends), so plan to pay the import tax/VAT and concider it a bonus if it does happen
(and if Adam does get something set up consider it a bonus)
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Post by: Stranger83
Would you need to pay an import tax though? I can only speak for the UK as i dont know other countries laws but here you would only pay tax on something you buy, which is not what you do with kickstarter. Kickstarter gives you free rewards (or gifts) in exchange for the money they need to make the project happen - i havnt bought anything. Now since tax is charged at 20% of what it cist me 20% of nithing is still nothing.
I guess a lot will depend on how they ship it, but in my mind this is a gift and should be free from tax ( in the UK at least)
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Post by: grefven
Stranger83 wrote:Would you need to pay an import tax though? I can only speak for the UK as i dont know other countries laws but here you would only pay tax on something you buy, which is not what you do with kickstarter. Kickstarter gives you free rewards (or gifts) in exchange for the money they need to make the project happen - i havnt bought anything. Now since tax is charged at 20% of what it cist me 20% of nithing is still nothing.
I guess a lot will depend on how they ship it, but in my mind this is a gift and should be free from tax ( in the UK at least)
I am not sure I agree. Even if I pledge money on this KD campaign, I do not do it out of goodwill to support Kingdom Death out of genourosity. I do it because I fully expect that I will get goods in return for my money. And I honestly don't really care what people try to claim KS to be. It is an online shop/pre-order site.
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Post by: Stranger83
Not according to kickstarter its not. Im not meanimg you cant think of it as a shop but if you thought a spoon was a knife it doesn't make it one, even if it can be used as one if you wish.
The point is kickstarter are very clear they are not a shop - and that the rewards are a gift given for your help in making the project a reality. If it is just a free reward then it shouldn't be taxed, according to UK law as it stands at the moment. Obviously it'll depend on how they ship the stuff - if they include an invoice and send it marked as sold goods then it'll get taxed, but I think it could just as legitimately be sent as a gift with an insert that says something like "thanks very much for your help in making the project a reality, please find enclosed your agreed gift" in which case it would not be taxed.
Edited it make it sound a little less confruntational.
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Post by: devilution
Stranger83 wrote:Would you need to pay an import tax though? I can only speak for the UK as i dont know other countries laws but here you would only pay tax on something you buy, which is not what you do with kickstarter. Kickstarter gives you free rewards (or gifts) in exchange for the money they need to make the project happen - i havnt bought anything. Now since tax is charged at 20% of what it cist me 20% of nithing is still nothing.
I guess a lot will depend on how they ship it, but in my mind this is a gift and should be free from tax ( in the UK at least)
Belgium is a horrible country when it comes to mailservices and import taxes.
1.If you send it as a gift you don't have to pay taxes if the value is lower then 45 Euro (about 65USD).
2.If you send it as a non-gift it the following rule. If the VAT on the object would be worth more then 22 EURO you have to pay, since BE customs sayt here is not VAT on US products (since they don't pay VAT I think?, different system) You have to pay an extra 22%
For example you buy goods worth 100EUR you pay 122EUR. + 20 Administration cost from the belgian postal service (extra rip off).
If you are unlucky I think there is even a 6% or maybe 15% import tax, it only applies to some goods or the goodwill of the custom services (which they don't have lol).
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Post by: BrookM
Pow! 875K has been overtaken!
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