In my opinion, poeple use the term "End Times" not because of the behaviour of GW, but instead because of the fluff mythologies coming true:
The Spave Wolves' version of the Vikings' Ragnarök (return of the Wulfen) and Eldrad predicting the Rhana Dandra - both talking about some kind of world's end.
Woah, Age of the Emperor is really coming then. Which means SoB are going to get squatted for good, I guess.
That's scaremongering of the highest order. Well done.
Well it apparently happened to some armies in WFB and given how much attention they gave to the army, it seems very, very plausible that they are just dying to find an occasion to ditch them. But, well, I didn't follow 40k news and rumor too much lately. Because none of them say anything about SoB, and that's the reason I play Warmachine and Frostgrave now.
Yup, only if there are boobs about.
Back on topic
I`d actualy be excited, if a rehash was about. 40k is just a massive clump of rules at the moment.
Something akin to 4th edition would be welcome, in my opinion anyway.
Cut the fat, make all the rules and codices up to date. I`m pretty sure, that it`s quite impossible to balance the game at all in it`s current state.
I never get this. Everyone seems to have similar complaints about 40K; too bloated, too much focus on models that don't really work in the scale, costs too much to collect a functional army. Well, what do you think an AoS'd version of 40K is going to look like? Because it sure as gak ain't 4th edition - they'd cull the existing range and dull the bloat for all of five minutes before the spam of mini-factions pumps it right back up again, they'd put even more focus on big, OTT, impractical-for-gaming "collector centrepiece" models, and they'd cut the number of models required for a force(the new ones, anyway) and then ramp up the per-model price so that doesn't actually make it any cheaper.
hiveof_chimera wrote: I have all the harlequin related formations and rules I could post if they haven't been already.
Did I miss it?
Can you direct me?
Doesn't show up anywhere in thread, sorry guys I don't know how to put pics into a spoiler
But basically each unit gains a special rule:
1 unit of 6 harlies must use two harlies with kisses, two with caresses 1 of which also carries a neuro disrupters and the rest use CW, they gain the ability to run and charge. (27 melta-bombs worth of points)
1 unit of 6 harlies must use two neuro disrupters, of of which also carries a kiss, and an additional model uses a kiss, the troupe master uses a power sword and haywire grenades, the unit gains the ability to run and shoot. ( 31 melta-bombs)
The jester gains shrouded for the price of two melta bombs
The bike unit with hit and run (Zephyrglaives) costs 25 melta bombs
The void weaver is stuck with a prismatic cannon and costs 18 melta bombs
And if used together in a formation with Eldrad they all gain a 6+ chance to ignore wounds, this isn't a FNP and Eldrad gains EW.
And any unit can replace a troupe etc. in formations or masque detachment providing its the named troupe formation replacing troupes etc.
The run & charge / run & shoot is kinda cool, especially the part they can replace existing unites in a formation/detachment.
hiveof_chimera wrote: I have all the harlequin related formations and rules I could post if they haven't been already.
Did I miss it?
Can you direct me?
Doesn't show up anywhere in thread, sorry guys I don't know how to put pics into a spoiler
But basically each unit gains a special rule:
1 unit of 6 harlies must use two harlies with kisses, two with caresses 1 of which also carries a neuro disrupters and the rest use CW, they gain the ability to run and charge. (27 melta-bombs worth of points)
1 unit of 6 harlies must use two neuro disrupters, of of which also carries a kiss, and an additional model uses a kiss, the troupe master uses a power sword and haywire grenades, the unit gains the ability to run and shoot. ( 31 melta-bombs)
The jester gains shrouded for the price of two melta bombs
The bike unit with hit and run (Zephyrglaives) costs 25 melta bombs
The void weaver is stuck with a prismatic cannon and costs 18 melta bombs
And if used together in a formation with Eldrad they all gain a 6+ chance to ignore wounds, this isn't a FNP and Eldrad gains EW.
And any unit can replace a troupe etc. in formations or masque detachment providing its the named troupe formation replacing troupes etc.
The run & charge / run & shoot is kinda cool, especially the part they can replace existing unites in a formation/detachment.
I think this'll be a welcome change for Harlies.
Harlies main problem right now is their structure.
They were completely bent over by not having an HQ, because you can't run a CAD and are stuck with the provided formations in the dex, and only maybe two of them are workable.
What they need more than anything is an HQ, a named or just move the Shadowseer to HQ slot.
This set is definitely good for them but I still see the same issue in the end.
Ok, but how about we have a look at what they can do. The Cast of Players formation, a troupe, shadowseer and death jester in 1 unit wth Crusader. Now replace the Troupe with the run & charge troupe, the death jester with the Shrouded Death Jester and boom you have a great and easy addition to your force.
Run & Charge plus Fleet plus Crusader basically puts the unit at jet pack levels of speed, shrouded means you can abuse cover and the Shadowseer is a good addition to any sizable Harle unit.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Ok, but how about we have a look at what they can do. The Cast of Players formation, a troupe, shadowseer and death jester in 1 unit wth Crusader. Now replace the Troupe with the run & charge troupe, the death jester with the Shrouded Death Jester and boom you have a great and easy addition to your force.
Run & Charge plus Fleet plus Crusader basically puts the unit at jet pack levels of speed, shrouded means you can abuse cover and the Shadowseer is a good addition to any sizable Harle unit.
I don't think the unit will able to Run & Charge with the addition of the Shadowseer or Death Jester. It's not a Formation bonus. Its a unit bonus that applies only to the Troupe (based on my reading).
hiveof_chimera wrote: I have all the harlequin related formations and rules I could post if they haven't been already.
Did I miss it?
Can you direct me?
Doesn't show up anywhere in thread, sorry guys I don't know how to put pics into a spoiler But basically each unit gains a special rule:
1 unit of 6 harlies must use two harlies with kisses, two with caresses 1 of which also carries a neuro disrupters and the rest use CW, they gain the ability to run and charge. (27 melta-bombs worth of points)
1 unit of 6 harlies must use two neuro disrupters, of of which also carries a kiss, and an additional model uses a kiss, the troupe master uses a power sword and haywire grenades, the unit gains the ability to run and shoot. ( 31 melta-bombs)
The jester gains shrouded for the price of two melta bombs The bike unit with hit and run (Zephyrglaives) costs 25 melta bombs The void weaver is stuck with a prismatic cannon and costs 18 melta bombs
And if used together in a formation with Eldrad they all gain a 6+ chance to ignore wounds, this isn't a FNP and Eldrad gains EW. And any unit can replace a troupe etc. in formations or masque detachment providing its the named troupe formation replacing troupes etc.
The run & charge / run & shoot is kinda cool, especially the part they can replace existing unites in a formation/detachment.
I think this'll be a welcome change for Harlies.
Harlies main problem right now is their structure. They were completely bent over by not having an HQ, because you can't run a CAD and are stuck with the provided formations in the dex, and only maybe two of them are workable. What they need more than anything is an HQ, a named or just move the Shadowseer to HQ slot. This set is definitely good for them but I still see the same issue in the end.
It makes sense for Harlies not to have an HQ, but I agree about the structure issue. Really most of the formations/masque detachment would be fine if the stupid Void Weaver tax wasn't there. It should have been optional, not mandatory in 90% of every Harlie detachment. I think 'Cast of Players' and 'Hero's Path' are the only 2 that don't require the Void Weaver
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Ok, but how about we have a look at what they can do. The Cast of Players formation, a troupe, shadowseer and death jester in 1 unit wth Crusader. Now replace the Troupe with the run & charge troupe, the death jester with the Shrouded Death Jester and boom you have a great and easy addition to your force.
Run & Charge plus Fleet plus Crusader basically puts the unit at jet pack levels of speed, shrouded means you can abuse cover and the Shadowseer is a good addition to any sizable Harle unit.
I don't think the unit will able to Run & Charge with the addition of the Shadowseer or Death Jester. It's not a Formation bonus. Its a unit bonus that applies only to the Troupe (based on my reading).
I suppose in the shooting phase you could run all the players (and not move the Shadowseer and the Death Jester), and position them to keep coherency, then charge in the assault phase (just like wulfen + IC tend to do).
The only info about Eldrad I've seen is that he's the same as in the Eldar Codex. Is it 100% sure that he's still Eldar faction only (and not listed Harlequin faction on the datasheet in the box?). Because I agree that an HQ is what Harlies need the most to be a "normal" faction.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: Ok, but how about we have a look at what they can do. The Cast of Players formation, a troupe, shadowseer and death jester in 1 unit wth Crusader. Now replace the Troupe with the run & charge troupe, the death jester with the Shrouded Death Jester and boom you have a great and easy addition to your force.
Run & Charge plus Fleet plus Crusader basically puts the unit at jet pack levels of speed, shrouded means you can abuse cover and the Shadowseer is a good addition to any sizable Harle unit.
I don't think the unit will able to Run & Charge with the addition of the Shadowseer or Death Jester. It's not a Formation bonus. Its a unit bonus that applies only to the Troupe (based on my reading).
With the addition of seer or jester, it's still a Troupe Unit. So, it ought to work... unless there some prohibitions where not seeing.
hiveof_chimera wrote: I have all the harlequin related formations and rules I could post if they haven't been already.
Did I miss it?
Can you direct me?
Doesn't show up anywhere in thread, sorry guys I don't know how to put pics into a spoiler
But basically each unit gains a special rule:
1 unit of 6 harlies must use two harlies with kisses, two with caresses 1 of which also carries a neuro disrupters and the rest use CW, they gain the ability to run and charge. (27 melta-bombs worth of points)
1 unit of 6 harlies must use two neuro disrupters, of of which also carries a kiss, and an additional model uses a kiss, the troupe master uses a power sword and haywire grenades, the unit gains the ability to run and shoot. ( 31 melta-bombs)
The jester gains shrouded for the price of two melta bombs
The bike unit with hit and run (Zephyrglaives) costs 25 melta bombs
The void weaver is stuck with a prismatic cannon and costs 18 melta bombs
And if used together in a formation with Eldrad they all gain a 6+ chance to ignore wounds, this isn't a FNP and Eldrad gains EW.
And any unit can replace a troupe etc. in formations or masque detachment providing its the named troupe formation replacing troupes etc.
The run & charge / run & shoot is kinda cool, especially the part they can replace existing unites in a formation/detachment.
I think this'll be a welcome change for Harlies.
Harlies main problem right now is their structure.
They were completely bent over by not having an HQ, because you can't run a CAD and are stuck with the provided formations in the dex, and only maybe two of them are workable.
What they need more than anything is an HQ, a named or just move the Shadowseer to HQ slot.
This set is definitely good for them but I still see the same issue in the end.
It makes sense for Harlies not to have an HQ, but I agree about the structure issue. Really most of the formations/masque detachment would be fine if the stupid Void Weaver tax wasn't there. It should have been optional, not mandatory in 90% of every Harlie detachment. I think 'Cast of Players' and 'Hero's Path' are the only 2 that don't require the Void Weaver
-
Exactly.
Hell let me put the bikes in and I would be quite happy.
But the only way you can even use the bikes is a huge formation
Gamgee wrote: Otherwise we could see Slaanesh dying and Yineead arriving and being horrible and taking the place of Slaanesh in the pantheon just with death theme.
I find this unlikely since the Chaos pantheon exists in both 40k and AoS, and AoS already has a god of death (Nagash). I find it far more likely the Slaanesh ends up bitchslapping Eldrad back to Ulthwe after claiming the souls of this Harlequin troupe and becoming even more powerful. I honestly think it would be awesome for GW to bring back Eldrad just to have him immediately killed again. Slaanesh grows incredibly strong with the soul of such a powerful psyker and begins reaping Eldar souls that were once preserved in soul stones.
I'm willing to grant Eldrad a victory. Since I doubt they foreshadowed the Pythonian psyker, that Abaddon gifted to Fulgrim in Black Legion for nothing. I would guess Slaanesh does posses said Psyker and manifests in the material realm. Perhaps Eldrad manages to kill the Slaanesh's new mortal form with the help of the Deathwatch. Slaanesh isn't destroyed, or defeated just stalemated.
I really hope that doesn't happen. When Fantasy died and was reborn as AoS, Slaanesh was captured and hauled away somewhere. The Rat God took his/her palce among the Chaos Pantheon.
It would be too similar if Eldrad woke up Yynead (spelling) and cast out Slaanesh. Would Yynead then become a new (benevolent) Chaos God? Chaos Eldar just sounds .... wrong.
Ynnead would be an Eldar god like Khaine, Vaul, Isha, Cegorach etc.
No one knows what it would mean really for Slaanesh, just that he would be "defeated" and the Eldar would be able to reincarnate without being devoured
Galef wrote: I really hope that doesn't happen. When Fantasy died and was reborn as AoS, Slaanesh was captured and hauled away somewhere. The Rat God took his/her palce among the Chaos Pantheon.
I keep seeing this mentioned, but in all the battletomes I've read so far, I've yet to find a mention of the Horned Rat in the Chaos Pantheon. They just talk about Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle and then talk about Slaanesh being lost.
sizzlebutt666 wrote: Do we know if the individual Kill Team formations can take a Drop Pod and if they can do it as a Unit?
For example. I take a Kill Team of 1 Terminator and 5 Veterans and put them all in a Drop Pod. Is this possible?
Why wouldn't it be possible? You can do that in a regular Space Marine army with a 5-man power armor squad and a Terminator Captain. The bigger issue is Bike models, who probably will only be able to be transported in the flyer.
Has anyone acquired a scan of the Death Masque Deathwatch rules yet? Still want to see how everything in that box interacts with the codex proper.
I would imagine drop pods will have their normal restrictions (so no bikes), and none of the unit rules leaked have drop pods listed as dedicated transports, but if taken as FA in a CAD, I don't know why they would otherwise be unable to.
Galef wrote: I really hope that doesn't happen. When Fantasy died and was reborn as AoS, Slaanesh was captured and hauled away somewhere. The Rat God took his/her palce among the Chaos Pantheon.
I keep seeing this mentioned, but in all the battletomes I've read so far, I've yet to find a mention of the Horned Rat in the Chaos Pantheon. They just talk about Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle and then talk about Slaanesh being lost.
It's in the Primer book and I think Archaon's own Battletome.
This kit you're terminator squad any which way thing is sweet. FW's red wake and the non-traitor Huron are getting the Deathwatch treatment by me. Seems like they need a kit that adds terminator and bike bits as both can be taken. Odds on that? Also again can you use the command rhino or landraider with deathwatch?
EnTyme wrote: I would imagine drop pods will have their normal restrictions (so no bikes), and none of the unit rules leaked have drop pods listed as dedicated transports, but if taken as FA in a CAD, I don't know why they would otherwise be unable to.
That would really suck if you wanted to take a Watch Company (like me) and use ANY Drop Pods
JohnnyHell wrote: There's a screencap posted where it says that yes, Eldrad is Eldar faction.
Ironically eldrad is better in this formation then most eldar faction armies.
His biggest weakness is he is a t4 unit that suffers from Insta death.
In this formation he is eternal warrior and has a 6+ Extra not a fnp save that works on everything (including a 6 result str d or stomp) in addition to his 3++ and and fnp roll he can get.
The named death jester is basically an auto include in every firmation that wants a death jester.... Shrouded for 5pts on any unit he joins.... Yes please and that extra 6+ not fnp save
The 2 jet bikes with rerollable jink saves and an extra 6+ not a fnp save are just flat out better
2 troops that can move run and charge with 6+ not fnp save
The only tax is that void weaver that costs the same as a standard void weaver with prismatic and doesn't even benefit from the 6+ not fnp save. I'm just hoping its armour value is higher since the leak picture I saw had no stats however even if it doesn't this is still probably the best formation for harlies. Everything is faster and more durable.
JohnnyHell wrote: There's a screencap posted where it says that yes, Eldrad is Eldar faction.
2 troops that can move run and charge with 6+ not fnp save .
Only one of the Troupes gets Run & Charge. The other Troupe gets Run & Shoot.
They also seem like a bit of a tax because you have to take their set pre-determined load-out of weaponry. Which is a mix of CC and Shooting weapons, including what seems like sub-optimal choices like Power Swords.
I've linked to the two Troupe profiles here in the spoiler (from the The Dark City forums):
I just got done converting one of my Wolf Guard Terminators into a Deathwatch Terminator. Since he has the wolf skin cloak on, I had to cut away the upper rim of the shoulder pauldron and customize the assault Cannon to have the ammo box directly connected rather than belt fed. He looks pretty goo. He has one of Logan Grimnar's company icons for the right shoulder pauldron. Just need to do some cleanup and he will be set for painting. I am quite proud of myself!
axisofentropy wrote: I guess they can run and charge in the first turn with Fleet?
Did I read that those units can replace a Troupe in any other Harliquin detachment or formation?
Are the units unique?
The Death's Companions can Run & Charge, including in the first turn. The Company of the Threefold Stranger can Run & Shoot instead. Yes, they are unique.
The really good stuff for Harlies is Inriams Spectre (the named Death Jester) and the named Jetbike unit. The Death Jester costs 10 extra points (+5 for Haywire Grenades, and +5 for Shrouded) and the Jetbikes get to re-roll Jink Saves (+20 points for Zephyrglaives and +5 for Re-roll Jink). All these unique units can take the place of any unnamed non-unique unit in a Formation which is cool. Datasheets in the spoiler below.
Spoiler:
For completness, might as well post the other datasheets (again, all credit goes to Draco from The Dark City forums):
I really hope they've boosted the stats on that Voidweaver because at the moment it's paying an extra 10pts for nothing (Voidweavers with Prismatic Cannons are 80pts, not 90).
Inriams Spectre will be amazing for a Cast of Players, but is useless for a Hero's Path since the Death Jester would get Stealth and Shoruded for free there.
Imateria wrote: I really hope they've boosted the stats on that Voidweaver because at the moment it's paying an extra 10pts for nothing (Voidweavers with Prismatic Cannons are 80pts, not 90).
Inriams Spectre will be amazing for a Cast of Players, but is useless for a Hero's Path since the Death Jester would get Stealth and Shoruded for free there.
yeah, I dont know the details yet about that Voidweaver. It currently looks like its an even bigger Formation tax than normal. Inriams Spectre is awesome to get some Shrouded into units somewhere.
Bulldogging wrote: I can't believe no one has leaked the Deathwatch side of the box set yet. Driving me crazy refreshing out of boredom.
Same problem here! I want to see what I will be able to do with my existing stuff! Also, I am hoping Watch Captain Artemis has a rule that let's him be used in any formation that allows a Watch Captain the way all the Harlequins can be used in existing formations.
I am passing the time converting miniatures that haven't been used into Deathwatch. Next up is a Blood Angels Terminator!
Maybe I messed up, but I find the troupes cheaper than they should, even though there's a bonus…
So it's either a freebee, or the named troupe masters have different stats (one fewer wound?).
The voidweaver has to be more armored, otherwise it's +10pts for nothing, which seems unlikely. Also, the fluff description hints towards that.
JohnnyHell wrote: There's a screencap posted where it says that yes, Eldrad is Eldar faction.
2 troops that can move run and charge with 6+ not fnp save .
Only one of the Troupes gets Run & Charge. The other Troupe gets Run & Shoot.
They also seem like a bit of a tax because you have to take their set pre-determined load-out of weaponry. Which is a mix of CC and Shooting weapons, including what seems like sub-optimal choices like Power Swords.
I've linked to the two Troupe profiles here in the spoiler (from the The Dark City forums):
Spoiler:
Egh it's not really a tax it gets a free special rule and still costs less then all the same weapon options on a basic troupe.
Like you I saw the same formations on dark city with the stats blocked however the voidreaver is more then a normal one so I'm presuming it has better armour than a codex one since it costs more for no reason.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I just got done converting one of my Wolf Guard Terminators into a Deathwatch Terminator. Since he has the wolf skin cloak on, I had to cut away the upper rim of the shoulder pauldron and customize the assault Cannon to have the ammo box directly connected rather than belt fed. He looks pretty goo. He has one of Logan Grimnar's company icons for the right shoulder pauldron. Just need to do some cleanup and he will be set for painting. I am quite proud of myself!
I'm very excited to pop out a few terminators myself. I have an unbuilt box of DW Knights that I know for certain will be getting the treatment, and I'll probably troll eBay for a single or two of the Wolf Guard and Blood Angel ones. I like the idea of adapting kits from other chapters to use for these guys a lot. Really opens up a ton of possibilities, model-wise.
Speaking of terminators how are you guys feeling is the best way to arm them, I'm feeling like the overkill termy might be best? Something like 4 terminators with power fist/melta and heavy flamer, melta any vehicles as they can only fire one weapon use the heavy flamer on any infantry that get close or wall of death in the case of any charges, punch to your liking
Mantle wrote: Speaking of terminators how are you guys feeling is the best way to arm them, I'm feeling like the overkill termy might be best? Something like 4 terminators with power fist/melta and heavy flamer, melta any vehicles as they can only fire one weapon use the heavy flamer on any infantry that get close or wall of death in the case of any charges, punch to your liking
I like my termis choppy, personally. Some twin LC guys and Hammer/shield guys. A couple of cyclone launchers as well, to help soften up targets before the charge.
Mantle wrote: Speaking of terminators how are you guys feeling is the best way to arm them, I'm feeling like the overkill termy might be best? Something like 4 terminators with power fist/melta and heavy flamer, melta any vehicles as they can only fire one weapon use the heavy flamer on any infantry that get close or wall of death in the case of any charges, punch to your liking
My first thought was to do Chainfist // Aux Meltagun // Cyclone Missile Launcher , which lets it hit at Initiative, as well as reroll all those 1's, while getting the option to Melta OR Frag/Krak missile something.
Which, if I'm right is 80pts per model. If the rules work out how I want and allow me to field the Kill Team Formations with a Vet Squad and 1-2 Termies in a Drop Pod, I'm going to go with that option. The missiles are just for reach and so the model has to be reckoned with before it strips too many wounds/hull points with its range and fists.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am doing Fist and Assault Cannon for two. I will probably make a second Terminator with the DW:OK setup as well.
Seeing there are now Shields and power Mauls, I will be finally be able to convert Black Shield Alric. Already working on Black Shield Chaplain Vigilant using Asmodai as a base
Mantle wrote: Speaking of terminators how are you guys feeling is the best way to arm them, I'm feeling like the overkill termy might be best? Something like 4 terminators with power fist/melta and heavy flamer, melta any vehicles as they can only fire one weapon use the heavy flamer on any infantry that get close or wall of death in the case of any charges, punch to your liking
My first thought was to do Chainfist // Aux Meltagun // Cyclone Missile Launcher , which lets it hit at Initiative, as well as reroll all those 1's, while getting the option to Melta OR Frag/Krak missile something.
Which, if I'm right is 80pts per model. If the rules work out how I want and allow me to field the Kill Team Formations with a Vet Squad and 1-2 Termies in a Drop Pod, I'm going to go with that option. The missiles are just for reach and so the model has to be reckoned with before it strips too many wounds/hull points with its range and fists.
How will he strike at initiative with two fists(chain/melta)? Granted you'll get the +1 attack for specialist weapon though sounds like a good but pricy load out, I know they're good but I'm not a fan of the launchers myself.
Just realized something with the Harlequins stuff. Eldrad is stuck footslogging unless you add in some Eldar formations. Just another happy side effect of the Battle Brothers transports limitations. Poor guy. I almost feel bad about the fact my Culexus would rip him apart.
Seriously, where are those Deathwatch data sheets?!
So, terminators are 40 points per the rumors, this makes me thing special ammo. What hurts here is that special weapons are supposedly priced as normal. Id rather not be paying 5 points for special ammo and then not getting a 5 point discount for replacing it. After all a TH/SS terminator is 50 points per rumors in the codex, as opposed to 45 in the vanilla book, when there's no apparent rules difference. I really hope this is a mistake on luchibans part, not GW doing something dumb. Id rather not be spending over 300 for 5 Cyclone Termis
jifel wrote: So, terminators are 40 points per the rumors, this makes me thing special ammo. What hurts here is that special weapons are supposedly priced as normal. Id rather not be paying 5 points for special ammo and then not getting a 5 point discount for replacing it. After all a TH/SS terminator is 50 points per rumors in the codex, as opposed to 45 in the vanilla book, when there's no apparent rules difference. I really hope this is a mistake on luchibans part, not GW doing something dumb. Id rather not be spending over 300 for 5 Cyclone Termis
I have a feeling storm bolters don't get special ammo but in the radio interview one of the rules writers mentioned attaching different unit types to the veterans had benefits through special rules and he mentions a terminator would provide fearless, I think DW terminators are fearless hence 40pts each.
fresus wrote: Maybe I messed up, but I find the troupes cheaper than they should, even though there's a bonus…
So it's either a freebee, or the named troupe masters have different stats (one fewer wound?).
The voidweaver has to be more armored, otherwise it's +10pts for nothing, which seems unlikely. Also, the fluff description hints towards that.
I think you did. Or maybe I am.
I'm getting the opposite. The first unit would be 131 points with those upgrades, and the second 145 points.
jifel wrote: So, terminators are 40 points per the rumors, this makes me thing special ammo. What hurts here is that special weapons are supposedly priced as normal. Id rather not be paying 5 points for special ammo and then not getting a 5 point discount for replacing it. After all a TH/SS terminator is 50 points per rumors in the codex, as opposed to 45 in the vanilla book, when there's no apparent rules difference. I really hope this is a mistake on luchibans part, not GW doing something dumb. Id rather not be spending over 300 for 5 Cyclone Termis
I have a feeling storm bolters don't get special ammo but in the radio interview one of the rules writers mentioned attaching different unit types to the veterans had benefits through special rules and he mentions a terminator would provide fearless, I think DW terminators are fearless hence 40pts each.
Terminators may also be paying for the access to heavy weapons on every model in the unit.
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
Bikers? So just a squad of Bikes with 10 DW pads? Deathwatch Capt w/Terminator Armour? What model would that be?
As expensive as it would be, I really do wish there was a proper Deathwatch Terminator kit, perhaps with some fancy weapons of their own (Terminator Multi-Melta? Terminator Grav-Cannon) and a few Combi-Fists, plus Terminator Chapter pads. That would'a been cool.
Hanskrampf wrote: Yes, the left shoulder pad is separate. Would make sense but 15GBP? That's an okay price for a TDA model. I'M really surprised.
Still eye wateringly expensive for mass market plastics. Here's Tyberios from Forgeworld. He's cast in labour intensive resin and is only £3 more than the plastic DW captain!
we haven't even spotted agemman being the termi cap rumored ... by all means it could be something completely new given the odds of an entire upgrade kit for one blister
Huh I just realised that the generic SM bikers have been removed from the online store completely (was checking to see what the price difference was going to be).
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Huh I just realised that the generic SM bikers have been removed from the online store completely (was checking to see what the price difference was going to be).
My main question is: how are these "kill teams" really going to function? it is actually an advantage to have termies in with your shooty (or assaulty) veterans? what about bikes... i mean, they'll make coherency easy, but.. do they jink shooting attacks for their unit? who fires at full BS still? "sternguard" deepstriking sounds good to me... is that the major benefit of the formation? sounds like you'll be "UM-like" with doctrines... except they don't expire and they're directed at certain FOC slots
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Huh I just realised that the generic SM bikers have been removed from the online store completely (was checking to see what the price difference was going to be).
A local trader still has them listetd. Normally they give 20% discount so GW price should have been 30€ (for 3) - can't tell what that's supposed to be in US or Australian $.
jgfield79 wrote: My main question is: how are these "kill teams" really going to function? it is actually an advantage to have termies in with your shooty (or assaulty) veterans? what about bikes... i mean, they'll make coherency easy, but.. do they jink shooting attacks for their unit? who fires at full BS still? "sternguard" deepstriking sounds good to me... is that the major benefit of the formation? sounds like you'll be "UM-like" with doctrines... except they don't expire and they're directed at certain FOC slots
I guess the simple answer would be that nobody knows yet - until people figure out what works and what doesnt. At first, all these possibilities seem endless. 1 bike per squad to allow other units to deep strike near by, jink incoming shots, give split fire rule to the unit. Terminators in a squad for even more heavy weapons, 2+/5++ tanking. With mission tactics and various kill teams you'll basically have TL weapons and re-roll all To Wounds rolls for everyone.
Only jinked model snap shots.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In addition, hopefully the Deathwatch upgrade sprues mean something unique or new for Landraider / Razorback / Rhino loadouts as well. Although luchiban didnt mention anything..
I like these prices. Either the same or cheaper than previous prices with a deathwatch sprue thrown in. They seem to be following the practice establsihed with AOS. Essentially a cheaper per model price without actually decreasing prices.
Is that kill team Cassius all the minis from the board game?
If so it is a reasonable price for what are basically 11 character models.
I can see adding a Termie or two to a squad via that formation being worthwhile in the same way you'd use an Artificer Armour sergeant in HH, to stick a 2+ save up front. For example, a 5-man Veteran squad with a few Frag Cannons, plus a Termie with an Assault Cannon or Cyclone, gains a big bump in durability vs small arms and some serious firepower, not to mention a re-roll against Troops or HS depending on the KT you choose. I can't see it being as useful for offensive units as it would close off Sweeping Advance for the whole squad, but more defensively I think there's some mileage in it.
Alternatively, you could do the inverse, a bunch of cheaper Veterans up front to act as meat shields for the Termies behind, kind of like BT Initiates and Neophytes. Give the Termies Fists and the Vets at-initiative weapons, and you've got a neat one-two punch unit, the Vets hitting first, soaking the incoming return hits and the Termies piling in for the kill.
The bikes I'm less sure of, the only thing I can think of would be to extend your overall movement range a bit if you really need to reach out to an objective in the late game, but that's situational at best and relies on the bike being kept alive.
I can actually see one of the more useful combinations being the simple Deathwatch/Vanguard combos, to get Heavy Thunder Hammers, Xenoblades or even the Assault HB/HF into a Vanguard squad. Stick that in a drop pod and you can build a nice all-rounder unit that might work nicely as an allied detachment.
True.. the thought had entered my mind that it would be nice to have a unit that's truly good at both shooting and CC, having the veteran statline and all. My sternguard (w/ Pedro nearby) have been known to pull out surprising charges w/ 4 attacks each on the charge to finish a unit off
casvalremdeikun wrote: Just realized something with the Harlequins stuff. Eldrad is stuck footslogging unless you add in some Eldar formations. Just another happy side effect of the Battle Brothers transports limitations. Poor guy. I almost feel bad about the fact my Culexus would rip him apart.
Seriously, where are those Deathwatch data sheets?!
They're all foot slogging, or have you not noticed the complete lack of options for dedicated transports? That will apply to the Deathwatch units in the box as well.
correct, but its contents were revealed several pages back. Ten shoulder pauldrons, two Terminator shoulder pauldrons, one power sword, and three Inquisition icons.
There is probably a vehicle upgrade sprue inbound too, though.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Just realized something with the Harlequins stuff. Eldrad is stuck footslogging unless you add in some Eldar formations. Just another happy side effect of the Battle Brothers transports limitations. Poor guy. I almost feel bad about the fact my Culexus would rip him apart.
Seriously, where are those Deathwatch data sheets?!
They're all foot slogging, or have you not noticed the complete lack of options for dedicated transports? That will apply to the Deathwatch units in the box as well.
Well eldrad does give units in his army scout as his warlord trait as well.
Plus the troupes can either move run shoot or move run charge with fleet/crusader they are kinda built to footsloggin.
However I see this as a formation tied to another harlequin detschment regardless.
correct, but its contents were revealed several pages back. Ten shoulder pauldrons, two Terminator shoulder pauldrons, one power sword, and three Inquisition icons.
There is probably a vehicle upgrade sprue inbound too, though.
correct, but its contents were revealed several pages back. Ten shoulder pauldrons, two Terminator shoulder pauldrons, one power sword, and three Inquisition icons.
There is probably a vehicle upgrade sprue inbound too, though.
Only 2 terminator shoulder pads? Kinda annoying.
Yeah, but at least the Terminator boxes come with one anyway.
correct, but its contents were revealed several pages back. Ten shoulder pauldrons, two Terminator shoulder pauldrons, one power sword, and three Inquisition icons.
There is probably a vehicle upgrade sprue inbound too, though.
Only 2 terminator shoulder pads? Kinda annoying.
If they're bundling the upgrade sprue with everything it should be easy to pick up spares. Terminator pads might be a bit more in demand but it looks as if there'll be plenty about.
So, has anybody tried downloading the digital codex: Deathwatch from Black Library's website? I remember when the tau book was updated, you could download it while it was still labeled as "preorder" on the BL site.
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
I'm confused as to what the "Deathwatch Transport" is, at least at the 25 GBP price point.
I really hope that the "deathwatch transport" is the new blackstar. If it is, ill take 3. I was looking at it being closer to the dark angels flier in price as pure speculation.
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
I'm confused as to what the "Deathwatch Transport" is, at least at the 25 GBP price point.
Probably a Rhino, maybe a Razorback, with upgrade sprue.
Bikes confer ignore dangerous terrain and Split Fire to their unit, twin-link their bolter, have Hammer of Wrath, can potentially Jink-tank, oh and reposition around the unit and extend its footprint - all for 8 points more than a stock Veteran.
Vanguard Vets confer reroll of one or both dice on the charge, and ignore the disordered charge penalty, plus repositioning shenanigans if they take a jump pack.
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
I'm confused as to what the "Deathwatch Transport" is, at least at the 25 GBP price point.
Probably a Rhino, maybe a Razorback, with upgrade sprue.
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
I'm confused as to what the "Deathwatch Transport" is, at least at the 25 GBP price point.
Probably a Rhino, maybe a Razorback, with upgrade sprue.
Would be very unlike GW to toss in an extra frame at the same price point for a regular Razorback.
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
I'm confused as to what the "Deathwatch Transport" is, at least at the 25 GBP price point.
Probably a Rhino, maybe a Razorback, with upgrade sprue.
Would be very unlike GW to toss in an extra frame at the same price point for a regular Razorback.
No, not at all. Look at all the Start Collecting! sets. They are not lowering prices of existing SKUs, but new SKUs may include additional items for the same or similiar price.
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
I'm confused as to what the "Deathwatch Transport" is, at least at the 25 GBP price point.
Probably a Rhino, maybe a Razorback, with upgrade sprue.
I'm thinking that you're right on this one.
25 GBP price bracket=$41 price bracket; which is around the same price as a Razorback($41.25).
Shame, as I was reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaallly hoping it was a Corvus Blackstar.
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
I'm confused as to what the "Deathwatch Transport" is, at least at the 25 GBP price point.
Probably a Rhino, maybe a Razorback, with upgrade sprue.
Would be very unlike GW to toss in an extra frame at the same price point for a regular Razorback.
No, not at all. Look at all the Start Collecting! sets. They are not lowering prices of existing SKUs, but new SKUs may include additional items for the same or similiar price.
Yes, the start collecting sets are a good value, but so are the old starter army sets.
If they sell a razorback, and a DW razorback for the same price no one would ever buy the bog standard razorback because you could always sell or trade the DW upgrades if you wanted to build a non DW razorback.
Makes more sense to have the vehicle upgrade in the rhino kit, so you need to buy both kits if you want a razorback.
Would be very unlike GW to toss in an extra frame at the same price point for a regular Razorback.
No, not at all. Look at all the Start Collecting! sets. They are not lowering prices of existing SKUs, but new SKUs may include additional items for the same or similiar price.
Or various AoS repacks of existing kits, where they increase the model count but price at an overall lower per model price, e.g Skullcrushers going from 3 for $60 USD to 6 for $100 USD.
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
I'm confused as to what the "Deathwatch Transport" is, at least at the 25 GBP price point.
Probably a Rhino, maybe a Razorback, with upgrade sprue.
Would be very unlike GW to toss in an extra frame at the same price point for a regular Razorback.
No, not at all. Look at all the Start Collecting! sets. They are not lowering prices of existing SKUs, but new SKUs may include additional items for the same or similiar price.
Yes, the start collecting sets are a good value, but so are the old starter army sets.
If they sell a razorback, and a DW razorback for the same price no one would ever buy the bog standard razorback because you could always sell or trade the DW upgrades if you wanted to build a non DW razorback.
Makes more sense to have the vehicle upgrade in the rhino kit, so you need to buy both kits if you want a razorback.
The SC! are doing this exact thing. For example, Sekeleton Horde is a few bucks more than the Mortarch alone. Sell off the Black Knights and Skeletons and you have the Mortarch for ~40€ instead of 62€. Same could be said about the normal Rhino, the Razorback comes with the turret sprue, which can be sold off for more than the price difference between the two sets.
Yes, the start collecting sets are a good value, but so are the old starter army sets.
If they sell a razorback, and a DW razorback for the same price no one would ever buy the bog standard razorback because you could always sell or trade the DW upgrades if you wanted to build a non DW razorback.
Makes more sense to have the vehicle upgrade in the rhino kit, so you need to buy both kits if you want a razorback.
Considering they've been talking about how to reduce SKUs, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rhino kit removed from sale at some point.
A Razorback builds a Razorback or Rhino. So why keep the Rhino on the shelves?
Wraithwing wrote:
HOW TO PAINT: DEATHWATCH (ENGLISH) 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £6.00
DEATHWATCH KILL TEAM CASSIUS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £40.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPTAIN 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
DEATHWATCH BIKERS 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £35.00
DEATHWATCH LAND RAIDER 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £48.00
DEATHWATCH TRANSPORT 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £25.00
DEATHWATCH WATCH CAPT./TERMINATOR ARMOUR 20/08/2016 Deathwatch £15.00
Apparently these are existing kits with a DW upgrade sprue. But those characters make me wonder, they're cheaper than the existing character models, so it would be super weird for GW to repack an old model with extra bits and lower the price.
I'm confused as to what the "Deathwatch Transport" is, at least at the 25 GBP price point.
Probably a Rhino, maybe a Razorback, with upgrade sprue.
Would be very unlike GW to toss in an extra frame at the same price point for a regular Razorback.
No, not at all. Look at all the Start Collecting! sets. They are not lowering prices of existing SKUs, but new SKUs may include additional items for the same or similiar price.
Yes, the start collecting sets are a good value, but so are the old starter army sets.
If they sell a razorback, and a DW razorback for the same price no one would ever buy the bog standard razorback because you could always sell or trade the DW upgrades if you wanted to build a non DW razorback.
Makes more sense to have the vehicle upgrade in the rhino kit, so you need to buy both kits if you want a razorback.
The SC! are doing this exact thing. For example, Sekeleton Horde is a few bucks more than the Mortarch alone. Sell off the Black Knights and Skeletons and you have the Mortarch for ~40€ instead of 62€. Same could be said about the normal Rhino, the Razorback comes with the turret sprue, which can be sold off for more than the price difference between the two sets.
I know, I have not purchased a rhino since the razorback came out. More for less works well when pushing the out side of the price envelope, but I don't think they would obsolete the basic razorback.
Yes, the start collecting sets are a good value, but so are the old starter army sets.
If they sell a razorback, and a DW razorback for the same price no one would ever buy the bog standard razorback because you could always sell or trade the DW upgrades if you wanted to build a non DW razorback.
Makes more sense to have the vehicle upgrade in the rhino kit, so you need to buy both kits if you want a razorback.
Considering they've been talking about how to reduce SKUs, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rhino kit removed from sale at some point.
A Razorback builds a Razorback or Rhino. So why keep the Rhino on the shelves?
Would be very unlike GW to toss in an extra frame at the same price point for a regular Razorback.
No, not at all. Look at all the Start Collecting! sets. They are not lowering prices of existing SKUs, but new SKUs may include additional items for the same or similiar price.
Or various AoS repacks of existing kits, where they increase the model count but price at an overall lower per model price, e.g Skullcrushers going from 3 for $60 USD to 6 for $100 USD.
They're doing that because the older molds long ago paid off their R&D and material costs, so selling them is essentially free money for GW(minus the pittance for plastic pellets and delivery to stores) - they could be selling those boxes for a tenner and still make a profit. It's a good move don't get me wrong, but it doesn't cost them very much and the price for these bundles seems to be a continuation of their mental pricing policy for everything new.
It's just so odd, you'd expect them to have an organised system with SKUs organised into sensible categories that all sell at the same pricepoint, then just modify prices periodically to account for inflation.
fresus wrote: Maybe I messed up, but I find the troupes cheaper than they should, even though there's a bonus…
So it's either a freebee, or the named troupe masters have different stats (one fewer wound?).
The voidweaver has to be more armored, otherwise it's +10pts for nothing, which seems unlikely. Also, the fluff description hints towards that.
I think you did. Or maybe I am.
I'm getting the opposite. The first unit would be 131 points with those upgrades, and the second 145 points.
I get exactly 15 points more than you for each troupe. Did you count the additional player? Even though the box comes with 6 guys, the base cost in the codex only covers for the master + 4 players.
Yeah.....those fliers are too sexy to not have at least three.
The fact that they are dedicated transports for the troop veterans is just icing on the cake.
I mean, that is just so awesome!!! A flight of three in formation flying onto the battlefield guns blazing before setting down and disgorging the special forces!!!!
Makes me so happy to think about it, forging the HARDEST of narratives right now.
Need to see specific wording but overall I am pretty excited to play it in the competitive scene. It gives you what most space marine units lack, the ability to specialize across the board without the other taxes. Their tactics help every model in most situations, so on and so forth. As someone who likes to win with solid tactical play rather than general brute force this really appeals to me.
If stormbolters finally get special ammunition I might finally be able to throw down some terminators. Also, it looks like they get a terminator captain, is it possible they can get the cataphracti terminator upgrade?
Think about it, Terminator, one or two vangaurd with power weapons, a biker. Now you get to rapid fire your bolters into one target, split fire a bolt pistol into another and then still charge!
I think the new Tau Barracuda is still better than their transports, but not by much. Which is a good thing. Meaning they're transport is probably in the top 10 best flyers. As it should be. I don't necessarily need something to be crazy OP as long as it's competitive (even though I can't play).
I'll likely end up getting two or three when I start DW army.
Kijamon wrote: Not got a lot of info on the packages but it's definitely a razorback with upgrade sprue.
They are limited releases though so maybe it's not a big deal to give the sprue away if it drives up sales on the other stuff?
Thanks for this. So it's a splash release.
I'm surprised they are releasing the Watch-Captain blister(Artemis from the box) this quickly though. Unless they mislabeled the Watch Master with the halberd?
fresus wrote: Maybe I messed up, but I find the troupes cheaper than they should, even though there's a bonus…
So it's either a freebee, or the named troupe masters have different stats (one fewer wound?).
The voidweaver has to be more armored, otherwise it's +10pts for nothing, which seems unlikely. Also, the fluff description hints towards that.
I think you did. Or maybe I am.
I'm getting the opposite. The first unit would be 131 points with those upgrades, and the second 145 points.
I get exactly 15 points more than you for each troupe. Did you count the additional player? Even though the box comes with 6 guys, the base cost in the codex only covers for the master + 4 players.
I did not count the extra player, because I am dumb.
Kijamon wrote: Not got a lot of info on the packages but it's definitely a razorback with upgrade sprue.
They are limited releases though so maybe it's not a big deal to give the sprue away if it drives up sales on the other stuff?
Thanks for this. So it's a splash release.
I'm surprised they are releasing the Watch-Captain blister(Artemis from the box) this quickly though. Unless they mislabeled the Watch Master with the halberd?
Do we know for sure that it is Artemis? Could be a different model. Heck, the SM Commander kit came with a DW pad, could just be him.
Kijamon wrote: Not got a lot of info on the packages but it's definitely a razorback with upgrade sprue.
They are limited releases though so maybe it's not a big deal to give the sprue away if it drives up sales on the other stuff?
Thanks for this. So it's a splash release.
I'm surprised they are releasing the Watch-Captain blister(Artemis from the box) this quickly though. Unless they mislabeled the Watch Master with the halberd?
Do we know for sure that it is Artemis? Could be a different model. Heck, the SM Commander kit came with a DW pad, could just be him.
Artemis isn't in the codex, the model shows up in quite a few of the preview images that got posted last week.
Kijamon wrote: Not got a lot of info on the packages but it's definitely a razorback with upgrade sprue.
They are limited releases though so maybe it's not a big deal to give the sprue away if it drives up sales on the other stuff?
Thanks for this. So it's a splash release.
I'm surprised they are releasing the Watch-Captain blister(Artemis from the box) this quickly though. Unless they mislabeled the Watch Master with the halberd?
Do we know for sure that it is Artemis? Could be a different model. Heck, the SM Commander kit came with a DW pad, could just be him.
Artemis isn't in the codex, the model shows up in quite a few of the preview images that got posted last week.
Yeah, but they had a similar thing happen with Krom and Karlaen. Not saying it ISN'T Artemis, just that it doesn't necessarily need to be him.
Kijamon wrote: Not got a lot of info on the packages but it's definitely a razorback with upgrade sprue.
They are limited releases though so maybe it's not a big deal to give the sprue away if it drives up sales on the other stuff?
Thanks for this. So it's a splash release.
I'm surprised they are releasing the Watch-Captain blister(Artemis from the box) this quickly though. Unless they mislabeled the Watch Master with the halberd?
Do we know for sure that it is Artemis? Could be a different model. Heck, the SM Commander kit came with a DW pad, could just be him.
Artemis isn't in the codex, the model shows up in quite a few of the preview images that got posted last week.
Yeah, but they had a similar thing happen with Krom and Karlaen. Not saying it ISN'T Artemis, just that it doesn't necessarily need to be him.
The Harlequin's voidweaver has a BS of 5 (so +10pts for +1 BS).
And the named troupe master from the Dusk's troupe (the one that can run and charge) has the stats of a normal player, with an additional wound (so -1 WS, A, I, and Ld compared to a normal troupe master). The other named guy has normal stats. I think it's a really weird move, and one more thing to remember when playing...
Whoever designed this thing deserves a medal, it's the first plastic flier GW have produced since the Valkyrie that I find more appealing the more we see of it rather than the opposite, and the Valkyrie was just a straight-up rip of the FW design.
So, lets see, I'll need one to use as the "spawn point" for DW in scenarios, and another to make into a crashed scenery piece to use as an objective for said scenarios, and what the hell I might just get a third and model it in-flight even though the chance of me ever playing a 40K game of sufficient size to include fliers is tiny. EDIT: I have it! #3 will get a different paintjob and be the personal shuttle of one of my Inquisitors.
God damn it's a good thing I flogged those BFG models on ebay recently, or this would hurt the ol' leather money holder thingy.
Yodhrin wrote: It's just so odd, you'd expect them to have an organised system with SKUs organised into sensible categories that all sell at the same pricepoint, then just modify prices periodically to account for inflation.
That would mean return to "good" old days when GW did shopwide price increases rather than just hiking up price of new releases.
Would also mean either constant pool of new price categories(at what point has to ask why bother with price categories?) or they wouldn't release cheaper miniatures in a guise of bundles like starter sets. They are deadset on not reducing price of existing SKU's.
Whoever designed this thing deserves a medal, it's the first plastic flier GW have produced since the Valkyrie that I find more appealing the more we see of it rather than the opposite, and the Valkyrie was just a straight-up rip of the FW design.
So, lets see, I'll need one to use as the "spawn point" for DW in scenarios, and another to make into a crashed scenery piece to use as an objective for said scenarios, and what the hell I might just get a third and model it in-flight even though the chance of me ever playing a 40K game of sufficient size to include fliers is tiny. EDIT: I have it! #3 will get a different paintjob and be the personal shuttle of one of my Inquisitors.
God damn it's a good thing I flogged those BFG models on ebay recently, or this would hurt the ol' leather money holder thingy.
My only hope is that those white-ish panels are litanies of something and not skull panels. Or just grates. That's be great.
The silver insets? they are probably litanies
as its covering the top guns as well. it looks fantastic so far.
i just wana see how long it is. so i can get a better feel for the proportions
Yeah, those handful of bright panels outlined in gold. I'm at work, so I can't do some awesome MS Paint skillz and paint a red line around what I mean, but I'm seriously hoping you're right and they're similar to the left shoulder pads of the marines.
So we've seen the datashes and we know Death Masque sets are out there in the hands of certain individuals. Why has nobody said anything about what actually happens in the narrative? That's the real exciting part IMO.
I keep hitting refresh hoping to see point values for those Frag Cannons. Nothing has excited me more than the ability to drop so many templates OR Lascannon shots, depending on the need.
sizzlebutt666 wrote: I keep hitting refresh hoping to see point values for those Frag Cannons. Nothing has excited me more than the ability to drop so many templates OR Lascannon shots, depending on the need.
Kijamon wrote: Not got a lot of info on the packages but it's definitely a razorback with upgrade sprue.
They are limited releases though so maybe it's not a big deal to give the sprue away if it drives up sales on the other stuff?
Thanks for this. So it's a splash release.
I'm surprised they are releasing the Watch-Captain blister(Artemis from the box) this quickly though. Unless they mislabeled the Watch Master with the halberd?
I believe this is the space marine commander/captain from donkeys ago with an upgrade sprue - the multi part kit which we have had for a long time (but the description wasn't very good).
The flyer looks like what you'd get if the dropship from Aliens and the Dark Angels Nephilim Jetfighter had a baby together. I'll have to get one at some point.
Just thought I would throw it up here because I haven't seen it yet but on BOLS it has been confirmed in a picture that in any formation that says watch captain you can indeed use Artemis instead which is just amazing. It also has a bunch of juicy images I hadn't seen before.
Yodhrin wrote: It's just so odd, you'd expect them to have an organised system with SKUs organised into sensible categories that all sell at the same pricepoint, then just modify prices periodically to account for inflation.
That would mean return to "good" old days when GW did shopwide price increases rather than just hiking up price of new releases.
The issue people had with that was they stopped having any relationship whatsoever with actual inflation, and became "how much can we tack on this year?".
Would also mean either constant pool of new price categories(at what point has to ask why bother with price categories?) or they wouldn't release cheaper miniatures in a guise of bundles like starter sets. They are deadset on not reducing price of existing SKU's.
Whoever designed this thing deserves a medal, it's the first plastic flier GW have produced since the Valkyrie that I find more appealing the more we see of it rather than the opposite, and the Valkyrie was just a straight-up rip of the FW design.
So, lets see, I'll need one to use as the "spawn point" for DW in scenarios, and another to make into a crashed scenery piece to use as an objective for said scenarios, and what the hell I might just get a third and model it in-flight even though the chance of me ever playing a 40K game of sufficient size to include fliers is tiny. EDIT: I have it! #3 will get a different paintjob and be the personal shuttle of one of my Inquisitors.
God damn it's a good thing I flogged those BFG models on ebay recently, or this would hurt the ol' leather money holder thingy.
It looks like the drop ship from Aliens
Most of the good GW products have fairly obvious inspirations elsewhere, I'm not fussed - better a thousand ripoff designs than another chibihawk.
You can use Artemis in any formation instead of any watch captain.
And you can use the NAMED units instead as well.
The question now remains who has the data sheets for the following units.
Squad crull
Squad galateal
Venerable dreadnaut nihilus
I really hope that a whole Watch Company "Decurion" isn't stuck with only Razorbacks and Corvus as transport. An army that can only footslog, arrive with fliers, or putter in a max of 4 Razorbacks isn't very satisfying. Really need to take advantage of all those Assault Hvy Weapons with close ranges and give them access to Drop Pods!!
sizzlebutt666 wrote: I really hope that a whole Watch Company "Decurion" isn't stuck with only Razorbacks and Corvus as transport. An army that can only footslog, arrive with fliers, or putter in a max of 4 Razorbacks isn't very satisfying. Really need to take advantage of all those Assault Hvy Weapons with close ranges and give them access to Drop Pods!!
The Veteran unit is confirmed to have Rhinos and Pods as DTs as well as Razorbacks and Corvus - so Infernus drive-by to your heart's content.
sizzlebutt666 wrote: I really hope that a whole Watch Company "Decurion" isn't stuck with only Razorbacks and Corvus as transport. An army that can only footslog, arrive with fliers, or putter in a max of 4 Razorbacks isn't very satisfying. Really need to take advantage of all those Assault Hvy Weapons with close ranges and give them access to Drop Pods!!
The Veteran unit is confirmed to have Rhinos and Pods as DTs as well as Razorbacks and Corvus - so Infernus drive-by to your heart's content.
And the Terminator will likely be able to take Landraider variants as DTs if you want that "cool" factor of the squad rumbling across the battlefield in a big-ass tank. Keep at mind that the only vehicle that can transport bikes is the Corvus.
sizzlebutt666 wrote: I really hope that a whole Watch Company "Decurion" isn't stuck with only Razorbacks and Corvus as transport. An army that can only footslog, arrive with fliers, or putter in a max of 4 Razorbacks isn't very satisfying. Really need to take advantage of all those Assault Hvy Weapons with close ranges and give them access to Drop Pods!!
unless i read it wrong, the entire decurion gets deepstrike... atia and other said the drop pod is a DT anyway though
That's so dope. This release is just perfectly timed. My birthday is this week, and I'm gonna have to treat myself to one of these. Maybe one of everything. I dunno.
I wonder how integral the =][= badges on the Corvus are to the model? If they are just stuck onto the body and doors instead of moulded in I could see vanilla SM nicking it for them selves come the next codex update.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I wonder how integral the =][= badges on the Corvus are to the model? If they are just stuck onto the body and doors instead of moulded in I could see vanilla SM nicking it for them selves come the next codex update.
They are almost assuredly molded on. Just speculation, of course, but now that SM have 3 types of flyers, I doubt they'd get access to the Corvus as a 4th.
Anyone else find it odd that SM have the widest variety of flyers? SM = 3, DA = 2, SW = 2, DW = 1. Seems odd that the masters of anti-grav tech, who have been around for more millennia than humans have existed, have half as many.
That's so dope. This release is just perfectly timed. My birthday is this week, and I'm gonna have to treat myself to one of these. Maybe one of everything. I dunno.
sizzlebutt666 wrote: I really hope that a whole Watch Company "Decurion" isn't stuck with only Razorbacks and Corvus as transport. An army that can only footslog, arrive with fliers, or putter in a max of 4 Razorbacks isn't very satisfying. Really need to take advantage of all those Assault Hvy Weapons with close ranges and give them access to Drop Pods!!
unless i read it wrong, the entire decurion gets deepstrike... atia and other said the drop pod is a DT anyway though
sizzlebutt666 wrote: I really hope that a whole Watch Company "Decurion" isn't stuck with only Razorbacks and Corvus as transport. An army that can only footslog, arrive with fliers, or putter in a max of 4 Razorbacks isn't very satisfying. Really need to take advantage of all those Assault Hvy Weapons with close ranges and give them access to Drop Pods!!
The Veteran unit is confirmed to have Rhinos and Pods as DTs as well as Razorbacks and Corvus - so Infernus drive-by to your heart's content.
And the Terminator will likely be able to take Landraider variants as DTs if you want that "cool" factor of the squad rumbling across the battlefield in a big-ass tank. Keep at mind that the only vehicle that can transport bikes is the Corvus.
As LR's are their only Heavy Support and are an Auxilary Choice in the Black Spear, I doubt they will be DTs as there is no need for them to not compete with other things for slots. The net effect on list building will be positive (as you can choose different units to start in one).
jgfield79 wrote:
sizzlebutt666 wrote: I really hope that a whole Watch Company "Decurion" isn't stuck with only Razorbacks and Corvus as transport. An army that can only footslog, arrive with fliers, or putter in a max of 4 Razorbacks isn't very satisfying. Really need to take advantage of all those Assault Hvy Weapons with close ranges and give them access to Drop Pods!!
unless i read it wrong, the entire decurion gets deepstrike... atia and other said the drop pod is a DT anyway though
All non-vehicle units do - but drop pods still have half arrive on turn 1 and have Inertial Guidance, so they are still very useful (plus sitting on objectives).
I'm honestly stoked to build a Watch Company. It's convenient that, bare minimum, the Malleus, Aquilla, and Furor Kill Teams are all composed of 1 Terminator and 1 Veteran Squad. Either way, I'm probably going to want to include 6-12 Frag Cannons in the army since it's by far the best weapon since Grav weapons came out. Assault, Template, and Lascannon shots, all in one gun!
I find it easy to also assemble the more Assault Oriented Dominatus Kill Team out of the Death Masque contents. Hvy Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields, and Xenoblades all likely making quick work of MCs and GCs. Color me stoked.
godswildcard wrote: So I saw that price list a while back and I'm wondering if 'Kill Team Cassius' is the Overkill Kill Team sold separately.
Because if it is, at £40 I'm soooo in.
Yuuuuuuuuuuup.
We already have DW:O and we are considering getting it just to have the models based to match the DW army my partner is starting versus the way we based DW:O. And it means we can just keep the DW:O models packed together for it.
Just a healthy desire for German Battle Nuns and their German Nurse Nun counterparts.
What?
I was just teasing that surely the only reason you play Sisters is because they are German Battle Nuns (because Low Gothic has at times been described in a manner similar to German).
Also holy feth, I was already sold on the Deathwatch, but that Flyer? Sold me harder.
Mr Morden wrote: Has Eldread always been around during the Fall?
Yep. Oldest living Eldar. Vect used to be about that old as well, but they ret-conned him to have been born afterwards, as a slave that rose up to be Overlord
What people think about those stalkers? Any good? I like an idea of a squad armed with them, and I'm already planning how to convert more.
Yeah I'm thinking Stalker is a good way to go for at least one squad. Poisoned (2+) with Sniper giving AP2 to some wounds is gonna be good against those durn xenos.
Edit: Was my initial takeaway. Having other special ammo on 30" Heavy 2 is wonderful as well, I'm sure
Mr Morden wrote: Has Eldread always been around during the Fall?
Yep. Oldest living Eldar. Vect used to be about that old as well, but they ret-conned him to have been born afterwards, as a slave that rose up to be Overlord
I'm not fully sure if there was some mention in older codex but i know there is a history where Vects claims he was alive and going to be sacrificed when She-who-thirst born, how true that history may be is for another debate since it's hinted by Vect itself it's for his own amusement torturing the man is listening with it without letting him know if the history is true or not.
Seriously, between all the different weapon choices, this is going to be a major pain deciding what I want to make. I am thinking that nearly every weapon pattern will see use.
I am thinking I will make a Black Spear Strike Force with a Watch Company, a Strategium Command Team, one or two of the Corvus Blackstar formations, and finish it off with an Oathsworn Knight. Should be a fun army to play.
anywhere leaked the following datasheets:
Squad crull
Squad galateal
Venerable dreadnaut nihilus
Plus the detschment that combines the 3 above units and Artemis?
gungo wrote: anywhere leaked the following datasheets:
Squad crull
Squad galateal
Venerable dreadnaut nihilus
Plus the detschment that combines the 3 above units and Artemis?
the guy who has leaked them on his Facebook page (l'Astropathe) hasn't posted them.
RedFox wrote: Dont know anything about Harlequins, does it look like they have a good weapon loadout? Because I would like to run the formation, worth it?
The Skyweavers and the Voidweaver have a very standard loadout.
The grenades on the Death Jester are not very common, but he gains shrouded (and only pays 5pts for it), so it's a great addition.
The troupes loadouts are not optimal: the power sword on the master is not worth it, and in my opinion the neuro disruptors are also not worth the points (AP2 fleshbane is great, but only 12" and costs 10pts). However, the troupes are cheaper than the codex equivalent with the same loadout, while still having nice special rules (run + shoot for one unit, run + charge for the other).
Overall, I think the formation is pretty solid. The only real tax is the Voidweaver, but basically every Harlequin formation has to take one. Having to footslog the troupes without a shadowseer's support isn't great, but with Eldrad as a warlord (so you get to scout d3 units) and for psychic support, plus some run + charge shenaningans, it's not that bad.
RedFox wrote: Dont know anything about Harlequins, does it look like they have a good weapon loadout? Because I would like to run the formation, worth it?
It's not bad but doesn't make harlies much better just another way to run them.
Every unit is unique and can replace the same unit in any detachment.
You have eldrad who is the same but gains the detschment bonus to make him EW and have a 6++++ sv that works on everything even str d
You have a troupe unit that can move run and shoot (also with the detschment bonus 6++++)
And a troupe unit that can move run and charge (also with 6++++)
A unit of 2 jetbike that can reroll jink (also 6++++)
A death jester with shrouded (also 6++++)
A void weaver with bs5
Everything has preset weapon loadouts (troupes are 6 man) and can't take dedicated transports but eldrad warlord trait gives d3 units scout. the special rules are either free or nominal (5-10) cost and the troupes are about 15pts cheaper then the same loadout. Sounds like a neat detschment to add to an eldar detschment. Probably not to competitive except for the people who will take add the death jester to thier list for 5pt unit shrouded. The troupes are a hodgepodge of cc and shooting weapons without tramsports but they are still scouting units with fleet/crusader that can move run and shoot/charge each turn with 3++ sv and 6++++ sv so not to bad. Eldrad makes up for a shadowseer with his ML IV ghost helming divination and telepathy badness and people shouldn't discount this versions CC potential ap3 fleshbanning instadeath weapons are no joke.
The deathwatch also have something similar just lacking the leaks for it.
Apologies for not keeping the thread updated, but it's become a juggernaught at this stage and I only have a small amont of time per day during the working week - not enogh to keep up with reading this thread let alone continuing to update it with every new bit of info that comes out. If any mods wish to do so by editing the OP, they're more than welcome.
nagash42 wrote: Do the deathwatch have anything to deal with the biggest xenos threat the wraith knight?
Does the Frag Cannon count? Because 4 of those out of a Drop Pod is 8 Lascannon shots at 12". Plus they reroll their 1's, and to-wound. Other than that, maybe Power Weapons on Vanguard units.
nagash42 wrote: Do the deathwatch have anything to deal with the biggest xenos threat the wraith knight?
Does the Frag Cannon count? Because 4 of those out of a Drop Pod is 8 Lascannon shots at 12". Plus they reroll their 1's, and to-wound. Other than that, maybe Power Weapons on Vanguard units.
Heavy Thunderhammers: Wound on 2's, potentially with rerolls, and 6s cause an extra D3 wounds.
nagash42 wrote: Do the deathwatch have anything to deal with the biggest xenos threat the wraith knight?
Does the Frag Cannon count? Because 4 of those out of a Drop Pod is 8 Lascannon shots at 12". Plus they reroll their 1's, and to-wound. Other than that, maybe Power Weapons on Vanguard units.
Wraithknight is a Lord of War, which means they can't use their tactics on it to reroll 1s to hit. All of the leaked images limit the tactics to normal slots.
nagash42 wrote: Do the deathwatch have anything to deal with the biggest xenos threat the wraith knight?
Does the Frag Cannon count? Because 4 of those out of a Drop Pod is 8 Lascannon shots at 12". Plus they reroll their 1's, and to-wound. Other than that, maybe Power Weapons on Vanguard units.
Wraithknight is a Lord of War, which means they can't use their tactics on it to reroll 1s to hit. All of the leaked images limit the tactics to normal slots.
Where are they getting rerolls to wound though?
The Aquilla Kill Team rerolls all 1s to wound/pen.
nagash42 wrote: Do the deathwatch have anything to deal with the biggest xenos threat the wraith knight?
Does the Frag Cannon count? Because 4 of those out of a Drop Pod is 8 Lascannon shots at 12". Plus they reroll their 1's, and to-wound. Other than that, maybe Power Weapons on Vanguard units.
Wraithknight is a Lord of War, which means they can't use their tactics on it to reroll 1s to hit. All of the leaked images limit the tactics to normal slots.
Where are they getting rerolls to wound though?
The Aquilla Kill Team rerolls all 1s to wound/pen.
Ah yeah, so that's helpful at least.
Aquila Kill team with 4 Frag Cannons and 2 Terminators with Cyclone missile launcher in a drop pod would be the best I can think of. Would still not average 5 wounds, even if the Wraighknight has no cover.
Aquila Kill team with 4 Frag Cannons and 2 Terminators with Cyclone missile launcher in a drop pod would be the best I can think of. Would still not average 5 wounds, even if the Wraighknight has no cover.
Edited cause messed up math
As I recall, you can have any number of special weapons in the DW Vet Squad, so 4 Frag + CML + 4 melta or plasma? or 4 Frag + 5 melta/plamsa + a combi melta/plasma on a Libby with Prescience (or a witchfire to try and putt extra wounds on - Psychic Shriek?).
EDIT: T8 means S4 bolters won't hurt it, and GC means poison wounds on a 6+. A CML Termie takes up two slots and will be like, what, 80 points? Melta-vets are 64 for two. or 74 for two plasma if the math works out better.
Aquila Kill team with 4 Frag Cannons and 2 Terminators with Cyclone missile launcher in a drop pod would be the best I can think of. Would still not average 5 wounds, even if the Wraighknight has no cover.
Edited cause messed up math
As I recall, you can have any number of special weapons in the DW Vet Squad, so 4 Frag + CML + 4 melta or plasma? or 4 Frag + 5 melta/plamsa + a combi melta/plasma on a Libby with Prescience (or a witchfire to try and putt extra wounds on - Psychic Shriek?).
Remember that Deathwatch Librarians can take from the Adeptus Astartes Psychic Powers.
DW Vet Squad with 4x Frag Cannons+4x Combi-Plasmas(8 man squad; 3 standard veterans toting Combi-Plasmas and the Deathwatch Sergeant toting one as well)+a Terminator with CML+Librarian with Librarius fishing for Null Zone(-2 penalty to Invulnerable Saves to a target within 24") seems like it could put a dent in a Wraithknight.
Some Xenophase swords paired with a Chaplain for Furious Charge might be a good way to take down a WK as well. Furious Charge brings them up to Str5 so they can wound a WK. AP3 means they are only getting their Invulnerable of 5++, and they have to reroll any successes. Not entirely optimal, but still better than nothing.
A dedicated Frag Cannon/Cyclone Missile Launcher team would be better though. Toss in some heavy thunder hammers and you should be able to take one down. It is a unit that costs more than a WK in the end though.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: I was just teasing that surely the only reason you play Sisters is because they are German Battle Nuns (because Low Gothic has at times been described in a manner similar to German).
I was confused by the german part. Why german? They speak high gothic that sounds like pseudo-latin. The german-inspired faction is clearly the black templars.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: I was just teasing that surely the only reason you play Sisters is because they are German Battle Nuns (because Low Gothic has at times been described in a manner similar to German).
I was confused by the german part. Why german? They speak high gothic that sounds like pseudo-latin. The german-inspired faction is clearly the black templars.
Many people I know refer to them as German Battle Nuns, and that there is some Holy Roman Empire influence through out 40k which was headed up frequently by German speaking countries.
I just noticed that Captain Artemis's combi-weapon does not have a one use only descriptor. So you can launch that poison template if you want to charge and do it several times.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I just noticed that Captain Artemis's combi-weapon does not have a one use only descriptor. So you can launch that poison template if you want to charge and do it several times.
The one-use is part of the general combi-weapon rule from the BRB.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I just noticed that Captain Artemis's combi-weapon does not have a one use only descriptor. So you can launch that poison template if you want to charge and do it several times.
The one-use is part of the general combi-weapon rule from the BRB.
no it isn't. The individual profiled have one use only. The Rules for combi-weapons themselves make no mention of one use only.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I just noticed that Captain Artemis's combi-weapon does not have a one use only descriptor. So you can launch that poison template if you want to charge and do it several times.
The one-use is part of the general combi-weapon rule from the BRB.
No its not, unless you consider the italicized text part of the rules and not just fluff.
A million LOLZ at invoking the 30th Annivesary Marine rules as a case for ANYTHING.
And the Bane is special for being an unlimited use combi. If Artemis's weapon was just an unlimited use flamer, cool, but unlimited use AND Fleshbane? Nah, enjoy That Guying it up.
Alendrel wrote: Hrm I hadn't looked at that since the rulebook came out.
Well, then RAW it's not one use. But enjoy being That Guy.
Apparently following the rules makes a person "That Guy", but putting arbitrary restrictions on models that otherwise don't have them isn't. Good to know. RAW it has no restriction because it has no restriction, but good job on your rules reading capabilities.
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Matt.Kingsley wrote: Um... Artemis's is just a Poisoned (2+) AP5 flamer, not AP2 Fleshbane.
Yeah, it is hardly broken. It is just a template version of the Poison Special Ammunition. It does afford Artemis the ability to charge if he fires it, which is pretty cool.
Alendrel wrote: A million LOLZ at invoking the 30th Annivesary Marine rules as a case for ANYTHING.
And the Bane is special for being an unlimited use combi. If Artemis's weapon was just an unlimited use flamer, cool, but unlimited use AND Fleshbane? Nah, enjoy That Guying it up.
Artemis' gun is named "Hellfire Extermis" and it's in a box called "Relics of the Vigilant". Why exactly is that not comparable to a Space Marine Relic named Betrayer's Bane?
Combine that with the cost of a SM Captain with power sword and combi flamer is 115 points. That leaves 30 for his extra stuff.
gungo wrote: To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.
Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.
At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.
gungo wrote: To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.
Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.
At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.
Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.
gungo wrote: To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.
Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.
At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.
Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.
He's almost an auto take for any deathwatch army that requires a watch master.
gungo wrote: To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.
Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.
At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.
Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.
He's almost an auto take for any deathwatch army that requires a watch master.
I wouldn't go that far. He is good for his points and has some neat abilities, but he is a far cry from auto-include.
gungo wrote: To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.
Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.
At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.
Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.
He's almost an auto take for any deathwatch army that requires a watch master.
I wouldn't go that far. He is good for his points and has some neat abilities, but he is a far cry from auto-include.
are you serious?
He is 30pts more than a normal watch master for a initiative 5 str d ap1 melee atk, a 2+ Poison ap5 template, a unique warlord trait, fnp The stasis bomb alone is worth 30pts. We haven't even seen his formation bonus yet and I fully expect nearly every deathwatch army that has a watch master to be a token Artemis leading them.
No one questions that Artemis is better than a similarly kitted out captain. But, until we see more of the rules, I wouldn't say he's "worth it" necessarily. After all, Death Watch will for me likely be an ally, and that means 1 HQ. Id rather have a librarian in a pod casting prescience on all of those frag cannons.
gungo wrote: To be fair Artemis probably pays most of that 30 pts for his status bomb.
Maybe, but the fact he can kill himself with it probably drives its price down a little.
At WS6 that's not really much of an issue especially with all the reroll to hits deathwatch have access too.
In fact Its more a surprise when it does happen since it's highly unlikely this guy will ever miss.
Not that I think the flamer is one use only. I think it's intentionally multi use however those point costs are a wildly inaccurate way to claim the template is intentional.
Yeah, it is what it is. I am just enjoying the fact that I can toss the template down and still charge. Seeing that combined with the fact that Artemis can be used in any formation that needs a Watch Captain (seriously, EVERY special character should have this ability should be able to do this), will make Artemis a fixture in my army.
He's almost an auto take for any deathwatch army that requires a watch master.
I wouldn't go that far. He is good for his points and has some neat abilities, but he is a far cry from auto-include.
are you serious?
He is 30pts more than a normal watch master for a str d melee atk, a 2+ Poison ap5 template, a unique warlord trait, fnp
I know. He is an auto-include for *ME* and probably a lot of people, but in cases where one can use a watch master and his AP2 smacky-stick, they may opt for that, especially since it has a way of negating wounds that can't be stopped. To each their own. Like I said, for *ME*, this guy is a no-brainer and I look forward to dropping that stasis bomb and launching assaults after firing off a poison template.
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jifel wrote: No one questions that Artemis is better than a similarly kitted out captain. But, until we see more of the rules, I wouldn't say he's "worth it" necessarily. After all, Death Watch will for me likely be an ally, and that means 1 HQ. Id rather have a librarian in a pod casting prescience on all of those frag cannons.
That's what all the various Kill Teams are for. You can stuff in Librarian in all of them.
jifel wrote: No one questions that Artemis is better than a similarly kitted out captain. But, until we see more of the rules, I wouldn't say he's "worth it" necessarily. After all, Death Watch will for me likely be an ally, and that means 1 HQ. Id rather have a librarian in a pod casting prescience on all of those frag cannons.
Yea well time will tell how many generic watch captains we end up seeing competitively. I have my money down on not many
Watch Master or Watch Captain? I'm assuming you mean Captain since you're talking about Artemis but just wanted to make sure.
Like generic captains I doubt we'll see Watch Captains, but Watch Masters add more flexibility to the army by allowing an additional Mission Tactic change while also being pretty decent in combat (having Chapter Master stats, a 2+ and the coolness that is the guardian spear).
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Watch Master or Watch Captain? I'm assuming you mean Captain since you're talking about Artemis but just wanted to make sure.
Like generic captains I doubt we'll see Watch Captains, but Watch Masters add more flexibility to the army by allowing an additional Mission Tactic change while also being pretty decent in combat (having Chapter Master stats, a 2+ and the coolness that is the guardian spear).
Sorry yea watch captain and Artemis also has the additional mission change.
It's like I said you won't see many watch captains that are not Artemis. He is almost an auto take for every formation that needs one.
And while he can't get 2+ armor he still has 3+, 4++ and a 6+++, and as cool as the ap2 spear is he still has an ap3 powersword and also a single use initiative 5 str D ap1 atk that's even more brutal and costs less than the watch master with spear and artificer armor.
If anything his biggest issue is lack of acces to the relic list
JimOnMars wrote: Shouldn't Artemis have eternal warrior? If not, a single 5pt ork rokkit would insta-kill him on a failed 4++. Or did I not read his rules correctly?
No, but Space Marines very seldom have access to Eternal Warrior(about one character per Space Marine codex gets it). This isn't really that surprising.
Alendrel wrote: A million LOLZ at invoking the 30th Annivesary Marine rules as a case for ANYTHING.
And the Bane is special for being an unlimited use combi. If Artemis's weapon was just an unlimited use flamer, cool, but unlimited use AND Fleshbane? Nah, enjoy That Guying it up.
Alendrel wrote: A million LOLZ at invoking the 30th Annivesary Marine rules as a case for ANYTHING.
And the Bane is special for being an unlimited use combi. If Artemis's weapon was just an unlimited use flamer, cool, but unlimited use AND Fleshbane? Nah, enjoy That Guying it up.
The Deathwatch Upgrade Sprue in all of its pixely glory!
It appears to be the following:
10 Shoulder Pauldrons
2 Terminator Shoulder Pauldrons
1 Power Armor Chest piece
2 Power Armor Heads
1 Power Sword
3 Inquisition symbols
It appears to be the following:
10 Shoulder Pauldrons
2 Terminator Shoulder Pauldrons
1 Power Armor Chest piece
2 Power Armor Heads
1 Power Sword
3 Inquisition symbols
Very nice. 10/10 will buy multiples of.
Just clear enough to be useful. Thanks for posting.
Kijamon wrote: And you possibly get one whole upgrade sprue with the terminator captain as a splash release?
Can see him selling very well!
That would be AWESOME. If it is the Terminator Captain that is in the SM Start Collecting, I would buy him in a hot second to make another Assault Cannon Terminator. I love the model, dislike the loadout.
It appears to be the following:
10 Shoulder Pauldrons
2 Terminator Shoulder Pauldrons
1 Power Armor Chest piece
2 Power Armor Heads
1 Power Sword
3 Inquisition symbols
Very nice. 10/10 will buy multiples of.
Wonder why they didn't include a Bolter or two instead of the symbols?
They could have gone further and made the upgrade sprue two of those mini-sprues, one with the DW pads, and another with more Chapter pads for even more Chapters not in the main box. But we got a Power Sword though, 'cause anyone buying a DW box is certainly going to be wanting for those. (/sarcasm)
Kijamon wrote: And you possibly get one whole upgrade sprue with the terminator captain as a splash release?
Can see him selling very well!
That would be AWESOME. If it is the Terminator Captain that is in the SM Start Collecting, I would buy him in a hot second to make another Assault Cannon Terminator. I love the model, dislike the loadout.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They could have gone further and made the upgrade sprue two of those mini-sprues, one with the DW pads, and another with more Chapter pads for even more Chapters not in the main box. But we got a Power Sword though, 'cause anyone buying a DW box is certainly going to be wanting for those. (/sarcasm)
Yeah, of ALL the things they could have put in there, a stupid power sword is the worst one. If it was a xenophase blade or whatever, sure. Or a Power Maul, because apparently we are FINALLY including those with stuff. But no, it is a stupid power sword. Because no one has piles of those lying around. Certainly not anyone that will have the DW Veterans box and its four(five?) of them.
Breotan wrote: Wonder why they didn't include a Bolter or two instead of the symbols?
I would rather more =][= Symbols and less other stuff. How many of these upgrade sprues would you need to decorate a decent amount of vehicles?
I can only hope that the DW Transport comes with a whole bunch more of them.
Firstly, thank you for offering to do this, the hype is strong with this Codex! I've heard that including a terminator/biker/Vanguard Vets in a kill team applies a particular bonus to that kill team. Are you able to confirm what these bonuses are please?
Can we get some clarifications of how the kill team formations work?
E.g. If you run 5 veterans and 5 vanguard, do they have to function as one squad, or can they be split in two?
Kill Team: All of the non-vehicle units in this Formation form a single unit called a Kill Team. This counts as a single unit for all game purposes; it must be deployed as one unit and cannot be broken down into Combat Squads. The Kill Team cannot split up during the battle, even if a model within it has the Independent Character special rule.
Basically all the required units for the specific Kill Team formation join together to make one unit. ie the Aquila Kill Team will be a unit of Veterans (min 5) plus one or more choices of a Librarian, Terminator, Vanguard Veteran or Biker. All the Kill Team Formations are restricted to 10 models max, excluding Dedicated Transports.
How does the HB/Flamer work? ie can you only use the flamer once like a traditional combi weapon? Or do you just pick which one you're going to shoot with each shooting phase?
**Edit: Nice of GW to bundle the kill-team from DWO together. And as I suspected, they've bundled the Rhino and Razorback as a multi kit. Which is fine IMO. Wish there was a bigger pic for that Captain though.
Right, so, a Deathwatch Land Raider is a Land Raider with a Deathwatch sprue. I guess that Land Raider can really make use of 10 DW shoulder pads and a power sword. The Deathwatch Transport, again, needs another power sword... and the DW Captain will soon be the proud owner of 10+ shoulder pads!
Tell us about the fluff. Watch Fortresses? Are there said to be a lot of them? Is there an oath Marines take? Do they talk about their armour, the changing of the shoulder pad and all that? Does it talk about their interaction with the Ordo Xenos, or the Inquisition in general?
What heavy weapons can DW Veteran Squads get? Are there any minis in the Codex we haven't seen yet?
So it seems the Watch Captain is a repack of the old Space Marine Commander kit. Since it already contains a DW pad I doubt it'll have the upgrade sprue.
Ah well I suppose that means it's available outside of the SW Get Started! box once again.
It appears to be the following:
10 Shoulder Pauldrons
2 Terminator Shoulder Pauldrons
1 Power Armor Chest piece
2 Power Armor Heads
1 Power Sword
3 Inquisition symbols
Very nice. 10/10 will buy multiples of.
Wonder why they didn't include a Bolter or two instead of the symbols?
Vehicles. I had heard the sword was in a xenos style but you can't see the details in that photo.
This sprues and bits are going to be very cheap if they're bundled with everything.
The Deathwatch Land Raider comes with the Deathwatch Upgrade Sprue AND the Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer upgrade sprue. If that thing is the price of a regular Land Raider, that will be an AMAZING deal. If that ends up being the case, I am totally going to get one. The Deathwatch Transport just ended up being a Rhinoback kit, so that isn't anything special. No thanks, if I am getting transports for my guys, it will be in the form of a Drop Pod or the Corvus Blackstar.
I feel like I need to pat myself on the back, the Deathwatch Captain is EXACTLY what I said it was going to be!
casvalremdeikun wrote: I feel like I need to pat myself on the back, the Deathwatch Captain is EXACTLY what I said it was going to be!
Shame it's not a Terminator.
Still, the old Captain kit is one of my fav GW kits, even if it is really showing its age. I mean, it's from a time when stuff on sprues were so spread out that they were almost naked. Hell, there's almost as many bitz on the DW upgrade sprue as there is in the commander kit!
Of course, that's a good ratio of DW pads to models.
And never anyone forget, the Command Squad sprue has 2 DW pads.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: So it seems the Watch Captain is a repack of the old Space Marine Commander kit. Since it already contains a DW pad I doubt it'll have the upgrade sprue.
It probably doesn't and it seems strange to include the upgrade sprue with the vehicles since they didn't do that with any of the others. I'd have thought they'd just put in a DW decal sheet instead.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I feel like I need to pat myself on the back, the Deathwatch Captain is EXACTLY what I said it was going to be!
Shame it's not a Terminator.
Still, the old Captain kit is one of my fav GW kits, even if it is really showing its age. I mean, it's from a time when stuff on sprues were so spread out that they were almost naked. Hell, there's almost as many bitz on the DW upgrade sprue as there is in the commander kit!
Of course, that's a good ratio of DW pads to models.
And never anyone forget, the Command Squad sprue has 2 DW pads.
The Terminator Captain was listed separately from the Watch Captain in that list, so it is still entirely possibly we will get the Strike Force Ultra Captain with a DW Upgrade Sprue at some point. Between the two Command Squads and two Commander Kits I have bought, I almost have enough for an entire Kill Team. Add to that fact I have Jensus Natorian's arm (I converted an extra one of him into a Crimson Fist), I have six total DW shoulder pauldrons to work with!
I hope the Commander has the upgrade sprue included, the DW shoulder pads from the Commander kit and the Command Squad have no scripture on them, only the =I=
H.B.M.C. wrote: I won't tell you how many DW pads I've bits ordered over the years then...
Yeah, I bet this upgrade kit is a hard pill to swallow. :(
Just looking at that list that had the prices in USD, if that image is correct and the Land Raider comes with the Crusader sprue and a DW upgrade sprue, you will be getting like $35 USD for almost nothing!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hanskrampf wrote: I hope the Commander has the upgrade sprue included, the DW shoulder pads from the Commander kit and the Command Squad have no scripture on them, only the =I=
Can we get some clarifications of how the kill team formations work?
E.g. If you run 5 veterans and 5 vanguard, do they have to function as one squad, or can they be split in two?
Kill Team: All of the non-vehicle units in this Formation form a single unit called a Kill Team. This counts as a single unit for all game purposes; it must be deployed as one unit and cannot be broken down into Combat Squads. The Kill Team cannot split up during the battle, even if a model within it has the Independent Character special rule.
Basically all the required units for the specific Kill Team formation join together to make one unit. ie the Aquila Kill Team will be a unit of Veterans (min 5) plus one or more choices of a Librarian, Terminator, Vanguard Veteran or Biker. All the Kill Team Formations are restricted to 10 models max, excluding Dedicated Transports.
Thanks for the info.
So it seems that mixed Kill Teams are only really beneficial for adding in one or two Terminators or Vanguards for the buffs they provide to the rest of the unit.
It means if you want all Vanguard squads or all Terminator Squads, you're going to have to run a CAD or equivalent.
Tell us about the fluff. Watch Fortresses? Are there said to be a lot of them? Is there an oath Marines take? Do they talk about their armour, the changing of the shoulder pad and all that? Does it talk about their interaction with the Ordo Xenos, or the Inquisition in general?
What heavy weapons can DW Veteran Squads get? Are there any minis in the Codex we haven't seen yet?
Fluff seems pretty good, inline with the FFG Deathwatch stuff from skimming through it. Blackshields get a mention (and are indeed a single Veteran can be upgraded into one, gaining WS5 and a rule that doubles his attacks against Characters, Monstrous Creatures, Vehicles or when outnumbered). Kill Team members are said to individualise weapon and armour loadouts, to whatever they are familiar with or have maximised the effectiveness of (though MK VIII Armour and Artifex Pattern Bolters are said to be 'common' to the Deathwatch). There's also some fluff on what strengths Kill Team members of the Chapters and some various successor Chapters bring to the Deathwatch.
There's a galactic map with about a dozen and a bit watch fortresses scattered around it, with another double page featuring some heraldic banners of various Watch Fortresses, plus some more pages going over a typical structure of a Watch Fortress as well as detail on Watch Fortress Talasa Prime (the Fortress the Kill Teams from the Death Masque box come from).
Matt.Kingsley wrote: So it seems the Watch Captain is a repack of the old Space Marine Commander kit. Since it already contains a DW pad I doubt it'll have the upgrade sprue.
Ah well I suppose that means it's available outside of the SW Get Started! box once again.
The captain HAS the new DW upgrade sprue...
cause the old DW pads were all bare with just the DW badge on it and the new pads have writings all around...
In addition if you look better you can see the small icon on top of the backack... this is a small DW icon that comes from the upgrade sprue...
And the torso appears to be the one coming from this sprue (you can see it lacks the "ropes" the original torso from this box has)...
And probably they put a DW head from the upgrade sprue on the model too...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Right, so, a Deathwatch Land Raider is a Land Raider with a Deathwatch sprue. I guess that Land Raider can really make use of 10 DW shoulder pads and a power sword. The Deathwatch Transport, again, needs another power sword... and the DW Captain will soon be the proud owner of 10+ shoulder pads!
Tell us about the fluff. Watch Fortresses? Are there said to be a lot of them? Is there an oath Marines take? Do they talk about their armour, the changing of the shoulder pad and all that? Does it talk about their interaction with the Ordo Xenos, or the Inquisition in general?
What heavy weapons can DW Veteran Squads get? Are there any minis in the Codex we haven't seen yet?
It saddens me to see that HBMC of all people has to ask questions about DW fluff.
GW really has nothing but contempt for their licensors.
Can we get some clarifications of how the kill team formations work?
E.g. If you run 5 veterans and 5 vanguard, do they have to function as one squad, or can they be split in two?
Kill Team: All of the non-vehicle units in this Formation form a single unit called a Kill Team. This counts as a single unit for all game purposes; it must be deployed as one unit and cannot be broken down into Combat Squads. The Kill Team cannot split up during the battle, even if a model within it has the Independent Character special rule.
Basically all the required units for the specific Kill Team formation join together to make one unit. ie the Aquila Kill Team will be a unit of Veterans (min 5) plus one or more choices of a Librarian, Terminator, Vanguard Veteran or Biker. All the Kill Team Formations are restricted to 10 models max, excluding Dedicated Transports.
Thanks for the info.
So it seems that mixed Kill Teams are only really beneficial for adding in one or two Terminators or Vanguards for the buffs they provide to the rest of the unit.
It means if you want all Vanguard squads or all Terminator Squads, you're going to have to run a CAD or equivalent.
Yes if you want pure terminator or vanguard or bike squads you MUST runa a CAD...
All formations are about a 5-10 men veteran squad with addition of librarians/terminators/bikes/vanguards until you reach the number of 10...
It's a shenigan codex to me a bit dissapoin ting cause with all the formations they included one with just terminators or vanguard or bikes would be good... i cannot imagina that watch captains are so stupid to force bikers or jumpackers to go with footslogger...
Kid_Kyoto wrote: It saddens me to see that HBMC of all people has to ask questions about DW fluff.
GW really has nothing but contempt for their licensors.
It's more a case of me wanting to know what's there, what isn't, what's changed, what hasn't. I have a good idea that it sticks to the FFG stuff, but I want details.
Like if Watch Fortress Erioch got a mention. I doubt it does, but it'd be nice.
What is the standard loadout of the veterans?
The description of the Veteran Squad didn't mention options for powers swords or storm shields, yet the pictures show Veterans with them. So they can take those items, right?
Assuming that they can get power weapons, how much do they cost, and are they in addition to their normal weapons, or do they have to replace their pistol or bolter?
What other CC weapons they can get and how much they cost?
Can the characters (and which of them) take any of the following:
-Xeno sword
-Relic blade (the normal SM variety)
-Terminator armour
-Artificer armour
-Bike
-Jump pack
-Storm shield
-(Heavy) thunder hammer
-Any other unusual weapon or wargear that was not yet mentioned?
Kid_Kyoto wrote: It saddens me to see that HBMC of all people has to ask questions about DW fluff.
GW really has nothing but contempt for their licensors.
It's more a case of me wanting to know what's there, what isn't, what's changed, what hasn't. I have a good idea that it sticks to the FFG stuff, but I want details.
Like if Watch Fortress Erioch got a mention. I doubt it does, but it'd be nice.
Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?
casvalremdeikun wrote: Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?
Can't have a Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield by the looks of it, but any Veteran can take either. Only the Watch Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade. Terminators can't take either the Heavy Thunder Hammer or the Xenophase, though you can take Heavy Flamers, Assault Cannons or Cyclone Missile Launchers on every model.
The Black Shield is an upgrade for just the Veterans or any squad can have it?
Wich options has the Black Shields?
Wich squads can have the Watch Sergeant upgrade and wich options he can take?
casvalremdeikun wrote: Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?
Can't have a Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield by the looks of it, but any Veteran can take either. Only the Watch Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade. Terminators can't take either the Heavy Thunder Hammer or the Xenophase, though you can take Heavy Flamers, Assault Cannons or Cyclone Missile Launchers on every model.
Darn, I was hoping for a way to get those big hammer guys to be a little more survivable. Glad that the Vanguard Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade, that seems like a good place to put one (probably going to give one a Xenophase Blade and a Storm Shield) and run him with a pair of VVs with the Heavy Thunder Hammer. It sucks that Terminators can't get anything in the way of Deathwatch goodies beyond their meltafist.
EDIT: The Vanguard Veterans can get a Watch Sergeant, I hope.
What is the standard loadout of the veterans?
The description of the Veteran Squad didn't mention options for powers swords or storm shields, yet the pictures show Veterans with them. So they can take those items, right?
Assuming that they can get power weapons, how much do they cost, and are they in addition to their normal weapons, or do they have to replace their pistol or bolter?
What other CC weapons they can get and how much they cost?
Can the characters (and which of them) take any of the following:
-Xeno sword
-Relic blade (the normal SM variety)
-Terminator armour
-Artificer armour
-Bike
-Jump pack
-Storm shield
-(Heavy) thunder hammer
-Any other unusual weapon or wargear that was not yet mentioned?
Vets are 5man, up to 10. Same price as a Sternguard, but come with CCW's instead of Bolt Pistols.... Any Vet can swap their Boltgun for Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons or Special Weapons at the usual prices. Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols are in as Ranged Weapons though, and Deathwatch Shotguns and Stalker Patter Boltguns are in as Special Weapons. Any vet can swap either Boltgun or CCW for a Storm Shield, or replace all weapons for a Heavy Thunder Hammer. Sergeant can swap CCW for Xenophase. One Vet can upgrade into a Black Shield, gaining WS5 and a rule that doubles their attacks when in combat with an Independent Char, Monstrous Creature, Vehicle or when outnumbered in combat.
Watch Masters' only upgrades are from Special Issue Wargear or Relics. No Jump Pack, Storm Shield or Terminator Armour though they do come with Artificer and the Guardian Spear (Boltgun and S+1 AP2 melee weapon) by default (imo probably due to the fixed Watch Master sculpt). The only thing the Watch Captains can't take on the other hand are Special Weapons and Bikes.
Edit: forgot to mention, 4 Heavy Weapons in a Veteran Squad - Heavy Bolters (optional Hellfire Shells), Heavy Flamers, Missile Launchers (optional Flak), Infernus Heavy Bolter (optional Hellfire Shells), Frag Cannon
casvalremdeikun wrote: Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?
Can't have a Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield by the looks of it, but any Veteran can take either. Only the Watch Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade. Terminators can't take either the Heavy Thunder Hammer or the Xenophase, though you can take Heavy Flamers, Assault Cannons or Cyclone Missile Launchers on every model.
Darn, I was hoping for a way to get those big hammer guys to be a little more survivable. Glad that the Vanguard Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade, that seems like a good place to put one (probably going to give one a Xenophase Blade and a Storm Shield) and run him with a pair of VVs with the Heavy Thunder Hammer. It sucks that Terminators can't get anything in the way of Deathwatch goodies beyond their meltafist.
EDIT: The Vanguard Veterans can get a Watch Sergeant, I hope.
Don't forget that cause the terminators can all have the TH/SS and the CML and you can mix and match ranged and HTH weapons like the DA ones can do you can put a CML on top of a TH/SS (or 2LCs) one so you can have shooting power and HTH punch...
do terminators grant fearless when they join a kill team?
do bikers do something similar as well?
From the podcast, I heard kelly mentioning something like this. Curious to .know if it did make it to the rules or not.
...never stopped you from carrying a Relic Bade with a Storm Shield...
A Black Shield with a 2h TH on the charge has what, five attacks against a big creature or any squad that our numbers them? Pity they are only WS4.
Might be better to use a 2hTH on a Watch Captain if you can. You know, if you are not using Artemis.
Do we have confirmation that you can't take a DP as a dedicated transport for Deathwatch Veterans? If that is the case, it kind of kills putting them in an allied formation...
casvalremdeikun wrote: Are the Xenophase Blade and Heavy Thunder Hammer available to Vanguard Veterans?
Can a Veteran Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield?
Can any of the Terminators take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or Xenophase Blade?
Can't have a Heavy Thunder Hammer and a Storm Shield by the looks of it, but any Veteran can take either. Only the Watch Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade. Terminators can't take either the Heavy Thunder Hammer or the Xenophase, though you can take Heavy Flamers, Assault Cannons or Cyclone Missile Launchers on every model.
Darn, I was hoping for a way to get those big hammer guys to be a little more survivable. Glad that the Vanguard Sergeant can take a Xenophase Blade, that seems like a good place to put one (probably going to give one a Xenophase Blade and a Storm Shield) and run him with a pair of VVs with the Heavy Thunder Hammer. It sucks that Terminators can't get anything in the way of Deathwatch goodies beyond their meltafist.
EDIT: The Vanguard Veterans can get a Watch Sergeant, I hope.
Don't forget that cause the terminators can all have the TH/SS and the CML and you can mix and match ranged and HTH weapons like the DA ones can do you can put a CML on top of a TH/SS (or 2LCs) one so you can have shooting power and HTH punch...
Correct. Power Weapons, Chainfists and Power Fists with built-in Meltaguns are also options to replace the standard Power Fist.
aracersss wrote: do terminators grant fearless when they join a kill team?
do bikers do something similar as well?
From the podcast, I heard kelly mentioning something like this. Curious to .know if it did make it to the rules or not.
Terminators have Fearless. Bikers have Skilled Rider and Split Fire.
Crazyterran wrote: ...never stopped you from carrying a Relic Bade with a Storm Shield...
A Black Shield with a 2h TH on the charge has what, five attacks against a big creature or any squad that our numbers them? Pity they are only WS4.
Might be better to use a 2hTH on a Watch Captain if you can. You know, if you are not using Artemis.
Do we have confirmation that you can't take a DP as a dedicated transport for Deathwatch Veterans? If that is the case, it kind of kills putting them in an allied formation...
It sounds like Blackshields are WS5. So that softens the blow a bit.
Crazyterran wrote: ...never stopped you from carrying a Relic Bade with a Storm Shield...
A Black Shield with a 2h TH on the charge has what, five attacks against a big creature or any squad that our numbers them? Pity they are only WS4.
Might be better to use a 2hTH on a Watch Captain if you can. You know, if you are not using Artemis.
Do we have confirmation that you can't take a DP as a dedicated transport for Deathwatch Veterans? If that is the case, it kind of kills putting them in an allied formation...
Veterans can take Rhino, Razorback (no Las/Plas or Heavy Flamer options curiously), Corvus Blackstar or Drop Pods as DT.
deffrekka wrote: So can a watch master get a bike? And the watch captain can only have a jump pack?
Deathwatch do not get Bikes or Jump Packs as Special Issue Wargear, so no IC's on bikes. Watch Master and Chaplains are stuck on foot, Watch Captains can take Jump Packs and both Watch Captains and Librarians can take Terminator Armour.
GoonBandito, I was wondering if you could explain how the Tactical/Maelstrom Objectives work (and what they are) for the Deathwatch since they have 18 unique ones?
Vets are 5man, up to 10. Same price as a Sternguard, but come with CCW's instead of Bolt Pistols.... Any Vet can swap their Boltgun for Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons or Special Weapons at the usual prices. Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols are in as Ranged Weapons though, and Deathwatch Shotguns and Stalker Patter Boltguns are in as Special Weapons. Any vet can swap either Boltgun or CCW for a Storm Shield, or replace all weapons for a Heavy Thunder Hammer. Sergeant can swap CCW for Xenophase. One Vet can upgrade into a Black Shield, gaining WS5 and a rule that doubles their attacks when in combat with an Independent Char, Monstrous Creature, Vehicle or when outnumbered in combat.
Watch Masters' only upgrades are from Special Issue Wargear or Relics. No Jump Pack, Storm Shield or Terminator Armour though they do come with Artificer and the Guardian Spear (Boltgun and S+1 AP2 melee weapon) by default (imo probably due to the fixed Watch Master sculpt). The only thing the Watch Captains can't take on the other hand are Special Weapons and Bikes.
Edit: forgot to mention, 4 Heavy Weapons in a Veteran Squad - Heavy Bolters (optional Hellfire Shells), Heavy Flamers, Missile Launchers (optional Flak), Infernus Heavy Bolter (optional Hellfire Shells), Frag Cannon
Looking at this
"Any Vet can swap their Boltgun for Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons or Special Weapons at the usual prices"
Do Special Weapons include the usual flamer, melta, plasma? Or only the ones listed?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah I see it now. So wait, all models can take special weapons right? So you can take combi flamer for 10 pts, or a flamer for 5?
Matt.Kingsley wrote: GoonBandito, I was wondering if you could explain how the Tactical/Maelstrom Objectives work (and what they are) for the Deathwatch since they have 18 unique ones?
Oh yeah, there are 3 'sets' and you choose which set you want to use before the mission starts. The Primus set is more aimed at killing HQElites/Characters, Secundus Set more aimed at kill Troops/mass models, and the Tertius is aimed at killing Heavy Support/LoW/Fast Attack/Vehicles. Fits in with the Mission Tactics rule and the Kill Team Formations which are geared toward picking a Force Org Slot to focus on.
Edit: also, haven't talked about the sprues yet! Veterans are in Mk VIII armour with CCW/Ammo Pouches part of the rear torso bit, rear torso cloak for the Black Shield. 2x Heavy Thunder Hammer, 2x the sexy as hell Storm Shields, 2x Power Mauls, 6x Power Swords, 1x Xenophase Sword, 1x Combi-Melta/Plas, 1 Stalker Boltgun, 2x Deathwatch Shotgun, 1x Infernus Heavy Bolter, 1x Frag Cannon. The 'Vanguard Sprues' are a bit boring in comparison, with 4prs Lighting Claws, 4 normal Storm Shields, 4 normal Thunder Hammers, a Power Axe and a Relic Blade. Dreadnaught Sprues have Twin-linked Lascannon, Plasma Cannon and Assault Cannon arms, plus either Storm Bolter or Heavy Flamer options for the Power Fist arm.
There's lots of Deathwatch Shoulder pads, plus a Shoulder pad for each of the First Founding chapters plus Black Templars, Silver Skulls, Howling Griffons, Brazen Claws, Minotaurs, Flesh Tearers and Novamarines and a Black Shield pad.
Vets are 5man, up to 10. Same price as a Sternguard, but come with CCW's instead of Bolt Pistols.... Any Vet can swap their Boltgun for Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons or Special Weapons at the usual prices. Hand Flamers and Inferno Pistols are in as Ranged Weapons though, and Deathwatch Shotguns and Stalker Patter Boltguns are in as Special Weapons. Any vet can swap either Boltgun or CCW for a Storm Shield, or replace all weapons for a Heavy Thunder Hammer. Sergeant can swap CCW for Xenophase. One Vet can upgrade into a Black Shield, gaining WS5 and a rule that doubles their attacks when in combat with an Independent Char, Monstrous Creature, Vehicle or when outnumbered in combat.
Watch Masters' only upgrades are from Special Issue Wargear or Relics. No Jump Pack, Storm Shield or Terminator Armour though they do come with Artificer and the Guardian Spear (Boltgun and S+1 AP2 melee weapon) by default (imo probably due to the fixed Watch Master sculpt). The only thing the Watch Captains can't take on the other hand are Special Weapons and Bikes.
Edit: forgot to mention, 4 Heavy Weapons in a Veteran Squad - Heavy Bolters (optional Hellfire Shells), Heavy Flamers, Missile Launchers (optional Flak), Infernus Heavy Bolter (optional Hellfire Shells), Frag Cannon
Looking at this
"Any Vet can swap their Boltgun for Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons or Special Weapons at the usual prices"
Do Special Weapons include the usual flamer, melta, plasma? Or only the ones listed?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah I see it now. So wait, all models can take special weapons right? So you can take combi flamer for 10 pts, or a flamer for 5?
Who even thought that worked?
Combi-Flamer lets you keep the Specialist Ammunition for the Boltgun I guess? That's something I suppose. Also, the HQ units can't take from the Special Weapons, only the Ranged Weapons.
The stasis bomb is the greatest thing ever if you are playing an Ork army. I am not so sure it makes sense for one of the greatest heroes of the Imperium to be carrying a weapon that has a one in three chance of killing him if he ever uses it. Especially if, as one presumes, it is a fairly rare weapon. If it's "dangerous to use at close range", why doesn't he throw it?
Ian Sturrock wrote: The stasis bomb is the greatest thing ever if you are playing an Ork army. I am not so sure it makes sense for one of the greatest heroes of the Imperium to be carrying a weapon that has a one in three chance of killing him if he ever uses it. Especially if, as one presumes, it is a fairly rare weapon. If it's "dangerous to use at close range", why doesn't he throw it?
More like 9%. 1/9 chance of missing(you obviously won't use it against somebody you don't have rerolls unless situation is dire) and even D isn't auto kill.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hanskrampf wrote: Edit: Also, I couldn't find the rule for including bikers/Terminators/etc. in Veteran squads?
Umm you take formation and they form combined squad. What more rules you are looking for?
Ian Sturrock wrote: The stasis bomb is the greatest thing ever if you are playing an Ork army. I am not so sure it makes sense for one of the greatest heroes of the Imperium to be carrying a weapon that has a one in three chance of killing him if he ever uses it. Especially if, as one presumes, it is a fairly rare weapon. If it's "dangerous to use at close range", why doesn't he throw it?
More like 9%. 1/9 chance of missing(you obviously won't use it against somebody you don't have rerolls unless situation is dire) and even D isn't auto kill.
how you figure 9% firste you cant hit on better than 3+ in HTH, so you 16% change of rolling 2 with will hit your self 16% change of a 1 wich you then re-roll and have 33% change of hitting you self
so probely more like 25% change og hitting your self with it
Am I the only one who's uncomfortable with the amount of photos of the rules being posted? Models I'm ok with, the rest seems to violate copyright rules (IMHO).
So much has been posted, there's no need to buy the codex anymore.
bubber wrote: Am I the only one who's uncomfortable with the amount of photos of the rules being posted? Models I'm ok with, the rest seems to violate copyright rules (IMHO).
So much has been posted, there's no need to buy the codex anymore.
Don't worry, GW won't mind. They are a models company first and foremost, they do no market research and their costumers favourite hobby is to buy GW models.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Am I missing something or is there no reason whatsoever to take any of the other Kill Teams beyond the Aquila Kill Team?
Kind of what I'm thinking too.
Spam Aquila's, maybe a Strategium for FnP, add a vehicle of your choice or just deep strike everywhere. Frag cannon and hammer time everything else.
Points add up mighty fast. At 1000pts, I can make a list with ~10 models and a vehicle. Pretty cheap army to collect when each frag cannon marine is around the 50pts mark.
So the Watch Captain cannot have a heavy thunder hammer and can have a relic blade only if he takes terminator armour in which case he cannot have a storm shield. Argh!
Ian Sturrock wrote: The stasis bomb is the greatest thing ever if you are playing an Ork army. I am not so sure it makes sense for one of the greatest heroes of the Imperium to be carrying a weapon that has a one in three chance of killing him if he ever uses it. Especially if, as one presumes, it is a fairly rare weapon. If it's "dangerous to use at close range", why doesn't he throw it?
Math?
Artemis is ws6 and not including half the formations that include some form of rerolling or PE shenanigans or librarian abilities in deathwatch. You always have mission tactics which Artemis can change as a warlord trait to gain reroll to hit.
The only way you are missing with Artemis is if your assaulting an invis unit and miss but odds are if you are using a Intiative 5 str d ap1 single atk in melee it's probably something much worse then Artemis since He is already equipped with a power sword aT ap3 and 4-5 melee atks.
