Also, going back to the shotgun and Bolter issue, GW either has to allow it, or they have to say no special weapons on SM Bikes. Also, I really hope they fix it so a Watch Captain can take a Stalker Bolter. That way there is a reason for the Stalker profile of the Banebolts.
Or they'll just pull a John Madden and make a random ass ruling.
They wouldn't do that, would they? Not GW. The FAQs have been clear and non-contradictory!
casvalremdeikun wrote: Also possible. Though I don't see how they could fix it without potentially breaking it worse.
By removing 'melee weapon' line from the ranged weapons armoury instructions. Would also prohibit dual-wielding pistols, but it is impractically expensive in any case.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Also possible. Though I don't see how they could fix it without potentially breaking it worse.
By removing 'melee weapon' line from the ranged weapons armoury instructions. Would also prohibit dual-wielding pistols, but it is impractically expensive in any case.
Yeah that would be the simplest solution if that's their intent - swap ranged for ranged and melee for melee.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Also possible. Though I don't see how they could fix it without potentially breaking it worse.
By removing 'melee weapon' line from the ranged weapons armoury instructions. Would also prohibit dual-wielding pistols, but it is impractically expensive in any case.
since veterans are the only ones that benefit from this oversight, this would probably fix the issue. Except you can still exchange yourate CCW for a Boltgun in the Ranged Weapons, and then the Boltgun for a Shotgun.
I'm honestly hoping they rule you get to keep both, as is written. I don't think having multiple firing modes, all under 24", is a wickedly overpowered option.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Also possible. Though I don't see how they could fix it without potentially breaking it worse.
By removing 'melee weapon' line from the ranged weapons armoury instructions. Would also prohibit dual-wielding pistols, but it is impractically expensive in any case.
since veterans are the only ones that benefit from this oversight, this would probably fix the issue. Except you can still exchange yourate CCW for a Boltgun in the Ranged Weapons, and then the Boltgun for a Shotgun.
No i think what he's saying is change the Ranged weapons to say "Boltgun or Bolt pistol for:", The special weapons to say "Boltgun for:" and leave the Melee weapons to read, "Boltgun, bolt pistol, and/or melee weapon..."
Then you can't have any more than 1 2-handed shooting weapon on a veteran, but are still free to upgrade them with dual lightning claws, etc. It also still allows the characters to take a boltgun instead of a bolt pistol etc (though with a chaplain or captain that would be silly as you'd lose +1 Atk)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cephalobeard wrote: I'm honestly hoping they rule you get to keep both, as is written. I don't think having multiple firing modes, all under 24", is a wickedly overpowered option.
100% agree, however i want to play the army in whatever way kelly and cruddace intended me to.
Honestly, it doesnt strike me as this super big deal that it needs to be errata-ed or FAQed out. They did it in the past when things like cmd squads couldnt actually buy weapons they needed to buy.
It strikes me as the sort of thing where it is not game breaking in any way, and is pretty cool, so they will just let you play as you play.
We'll see. I went back and forth with them on Warhammer TV for about an hour before they "Sent it to the rules team", and also got emails from them advising they'd consult the rules team.
Fluffwise, it makes perfect sense for the DW to be carrying Shotguns and Boltguns. They are equipped to deal with nearly every threat. This is why their Frag Cannons and Infernus Heavy Bolters are so versatile and they have Bolt Pistols with Special Issue Ammunition. They plan for every contingency possible.
So, as long as we are looking at what is a legal weapons combination..... Does it look like terminators with Cyclone missile launchers, thunder hammers, and storm shields is legal, or illegal?
cuda1179 wrote: So, as long as we are looking at what is a legal weapons combination..... Does it look like terminators with Cyclone missile launchers, thunder hammers, and storm shields is legal, or illegal?
I've got my fingers crossed they give the okay to roll with both shotguns and bolters. It's just a fantastic level of versatility that would make DW veterans stand out, even from sternguard.
cuda1179 wrote: So, as long as we are looking at what is a legal weapons combination..... Does it look like terminators with Cyclone missile launchers, thunder hammers, and storm shields is legal, or illegal?
Totally legal. There is nothing at all preventing you from doing it. Probably the most expensive, but also most effective loadout.
casvalremdeikun wrote: So Atia posted an image that shows the current setup of the Watch Companies. Artemis is the Watch Captain of Watch Company Tertius (3rd Company). My Crimson FISTS are the 3rd Company(decided immediately when I built my Captain back when I first started). My Blood Angels are the 3rd Company(decided when I bought Deathstorm when it came out). My Deathwatch will be the 3rd Company.
Weird little tidbit, I am also the third child in my family. Perhaps the universe is trying to tell me something.
It's trying to tell you that Riker was right and you have to decompress the shuttlebay to save the ship.
cuda1179 wrote: So, as long as we are looking at what is a legal weapons combination..... Does it look like terminators with Cyclone missile launchers, thunder hammers, and storm shields is legal, or illegal?
Deathwing have been able to do that for a while too
Wolfblade wrote: Wait, but doesn't the TH/SS entry say exchange ALL weapons? Or is that simply gonna be subject to the "can't trade bought wargear for more wargear"?
This is coming from yet another source, talking about how things are about to step even further towards midnight. Primarchs and Demon Primarchs coming to 40k, a huge Black Crusade Campaign.
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Primarchs and Demon Primarchs are coming to 40K.
They won't be the same as they are in 30K. They're going to be slightly different to account for the 10k year gap.
We will be seeing The Lion, Russ, Guilliman, Khan, Mortarion, Angron, Perturabo and Magnus.
It will be once all of the 'end times' build up has finished (all of the latest campaigns) and we enter the new age (8th edition).
GW wants to cash in on FW success with the HH series as well as the fact that we're returning to a 'Golden Era' style GW with the new CEO and Merchandising and Marketing Director - Meaning they are actively listening to us, the customers and are proactively doing what we want now.
(Just look at the new Monthly WD with battle reports and painting guides, the new Get Started sets, the new clip n play introductory kids sets, the FAQ/Errata they're doing, the Points Systems for AoS, the social media interaction with the Facebook groups and new Warhammer TV talk show etc!!)
GW has been paying attention to the success of the HH/30K and to us wanting storyline advancement and more excitement (whilst not wanting a full AoS style reboot) and 8th edition is going to be that. (The latest campaigns, Baal, Curse of the Wulfen, Death Masque etc are all part of that lead up).
Apparently there is going to be a huge global campaign based around the next Black Crusade and a huge push by Chaos - As well as Nids doing their thing, the Orks going on a Rampage, The Tau pushing out, The Eldar getting themselves involved, The Necrons rising up and The Imperium battling on all fronts. (Business as usual but things are much more desperate!).
There will be storyline advancement on a scale we've not seen before!!
Apparently, the next Campaign will feature the Ordo Hereticus and Chaos and after that, we will be seeing the final stages of the lead up - with lots of new a chaos goodies including those Greater Demons, Rubric Marines, Plague Marines and everything else chaos related that's coming!
Calling it now. Tau will invent a new FTL/or discover warp travel style. We're coming for you. 4th sphere of expansion. Possibly even the destruction of Ultramar or necessitating the awakening of Ol Roboute him to try and save/salvage/stave of the realms destruction/conquest.
My Ta'unar the Danger Zero will be proud to serve in the upcoming campaign.
I hope we'll see the next Tau titan by then which will be bigger. The one of equivalence to the raver class. We know its coming in lore, we just don't know when IRL.
Edit
All forces and factions likely need to fight Necrons due to their awakening.
Blacksails wrote: No Vulkan eh? Didn't he just disappear much the same as Russ and Khan?
It's a Naftka rumor. Never mind that Vulkan is literally the only Loyalist Primarch whose activities we know about post-Heresy(spoiler: "The Hunt for Vulkan" isn't just a title...), of course he won't show up.
Gamgee wrote: I hope we'll see the next Tau titan by then which will be bigger. The one of equivalence to the raver class. We know its coming in lore, we just don't know when IRL.
Edit
All forces and factions likely need to fight Necrons due to their awakening.
Please, no. The Supremacy is already a complete breach of common sense. I'd rather have a giant hover tank like the Planetary Annihilation Atlas Titan.
Blacksails wrote: No Vulkan eh? Didn't he just disappear much the same as Russ and Khan?
It's a Naftka rumor. Never mind that Vulkan is literally the only Loyalist Primarch whose activities we know about post-Heresy(spoiler: "The Hunt for Vulkan" isn't just a title...), of course he won't show up.
Well yeah, I've got my salt pile to my right here for these rumours, but man, I'd be a little upset if Vulkan didn't show in case of a big primarch highschool reunion party.
casvalremdeikun wrote: So Atia posted an image that shows the current setup of the Watch Companies.
Interesting. Of what's in the picture, there's a good spread of chapters represented in the watch captains and sergeants. 2 each Imperial Fists, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, three Blood Angels.
It's this sort of thing, plus what looks like 100-200+ personnel for a typical Watch Fortress and who knows how many in Watch Stations, that makes me wonder just how many members from a typical chapter are farmed out to DW at any particular time. Which chapters send higher numbers? Which send as few as possible or none at all? How many of any one chapter are you likely to have at a given Watch Fortress, or even within a kill team?
Gamgee wrote: I hope we'll see the next Tau titan by then which will be bigger. The one of equivalence to the raver class. We know its coming in lore, we just don't know when IRL.
Edit
All forces and factions likely need to fight Necrons due to their awakening.
Please, no. The Supremacy is already a complete breach of common sense. I'd rather have a giant hover tank like the Planetary Annihilation Atlas Titan.
Gamgee wrote: I hope we'll see the next Tau titan by then which will be bigger. The one of equivalence to the raver class. We know its coming in lore, we just don't know when IRL.
Edit
All forces and factions likely need to fight Necrons due to their awakening.
Please, no. The Supremacy is already a complete breach of common sense. I'd rather have a giant hover tank like the Planetary Annihilation Atlas Titan.
Why not both?
Because Games Workshop would never do it, and hoping for both will likely get you a Transformer.
Well allegedly they are looking into a super heavy tank design and we know the Ta'unar sold like hot cakes. The New Brrracuda reception went over really well (not Taunar well) but great.
So I think its a possibility we might see both at some point. Definitely the next titan though since they have a lore and financial reason to do it.
casvalremdeikun wrote: So Atia posted an image that shows the current setup of the Watch Companies.
Interesting. Of what's in the picture, there's a good spread of chapters represented in the watch captains and sergeants. 2 each Imperial Fists, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, three Blood Angels.
It's this sort of thing, plus what looks like 100-200+ personnel for a typical Watch Fortress and who knows how many in Watch Stations, that makes me wonder just how many members from a typical chapter are farmed out to DW at any particular time. Which chapters send higher numbers? Which send as few as possible or none at all? How many of any one chapter are you likely to have at a given Watch Fortress, or even within a kill team?
All sorts of interesting questions.
Farming out captains and other members to the deathwatch could both be a loophole around chapter size restrictions and solve.some continuity issues with say captain Titus vs sicarius as 2nd captain- one is seconded to the deathwatch for most the time. Titus came back as 2nd captain in space marine while sicarius was wounded or because that mission was against orks so his expertise was wanted
Crimson wrote: Would also prohibit dual-wielding pistols, but it is impractically expensive in any case.
That reminds me. I have a Howling Griffon DW Marine who is duel-wielding Grav Pisotls.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Fluffwise, it makes perfect sense for the DW to be carrying Shotguns and Boltguns
No one is arguing fluff. We're arguing that this is an unintentional part of the rules that made it to print because the people writing it never thought about it.
Mr_Rose wrote: It's trying to tell you that Riker was right and you have to decompress the shuttlebay to save the ship.
That's a deep-dish obscure reference man, but yeah, don't use the tractor beam.
Also, Kiwiland Pre-Orders are up:
DW Land Raider (comes in all three flavours):
DW Transport (might be the most mundanely named thing GW has ever released - again, comes in both flavours):
DW Commander (it's the old commander box, as we knew, but he does come with the upgrade sprue, like the two kits above, so if you're desperate for TONS of spare DW pads, this guy is your... err... guy!):
DW Commander w/Terminator Armour (as people though, it is the mostly-unavailable Termy Captain, and he comes with a whole upgrade sprue. I'm very happy about this one, as the model is ace):
DW Bundle ala 'Buy all our playsets and toys!':
Kill Team Cassius - For those of you that don't want to buy all their playsets and toys, you can just get the Overkill Marines. Remember that this is literally the only source of the DW Meltafist bit.
tetrisphreak wrote: One freakin stalker bolt gun in the deathwatch vet Sprue.
And it's one of those 'reloading' guns, so it's not even just a decent bolter.
Just cut a magazine off of your probably 5000 extra boltguns and graft it to the bottom and get him a proper hand for the other arm.
It looks like the upgrade sprue is going to be easy to come by. I will get a DW Captain to make my own dude in case I want to use someone other than Artemis. I really like that head!
I am excited about the terminator Sgt. But I am holding back ordering until that awesome flyer and watch master comes out. I just want all the releases to be faster. This must have been how the ork players felt with their longer wait between releases this last codex.
So here's the terminator captain from the start collecting (plus dwatch pad from upgrade Sprue), captain Artemis, and a jump captain wielding a xenophase blade that I made.
Neat that the Termie commander is coming out for sale by himself. Clearly, the upgrade sprue isn't going to be hard to come by. Having had a look at the meltafist in the DW:OK box, it looks really easy to convert, although you don't get the nifty molded in litany and crux.
I really hope they release the decal sheet from the Watch Fortress edition separately.
Have to admit that I'm sad that the bikers are literally just a standard biker box with a DW upgrade sprue. It would have been nice to get some DW bling on the bikes, ala Overkill.
At least there are 5 bikers in a box, and not 3...
tetrisphreak wrote: So here's the terminator captain from the start collecting (plus dwatch pad from upgrade Sprue), captain Artemis, and a jump captain wielding a xenophase blade that I made.
If I may ask, where are those bases from? they look like they're molded with designs?
tetrisphreak wrote: So here's the terminator captain from the start collecting (plus dwatch pad from upgrade Sprue), captain Artemis, and a jump captain wielding a xenophase blade that I made.
If I may ask, where are those bases from? they look like they're molded with designs?
They look to be the new Citadel bases. The Terminator captain is on top of one as well from what I can see
I get a little chuckle from the crewman (crewmarine?) sticking out of the top hatch of the Rhino. Due to the Mechanicus symbol on his right shoulder, there's no indication of what chapter he came from.
BaronVonSnakPak wrote: Have to admit that I'm sad that the bikers are literally just a standard biker box with a DW upgrade sprue. It would have been nice to get some DW bling on the bikes, ala Overkill.
At least there are 5 bikers in a box, and not 3...
This release is a good release, but it does highlight a bunch of missed opportunities. A actual Deathwatch Bike and Terminator kit, rather than just regular kits with the upgrade sprue, would have been fantastic, even if the bikes were just 3 models. Imagine a Terminator frame that contains 10+ Chapter icon pads, in addition to the fancy new weapons they could have given DW Termies (I dream of a day when there is a Termy-mounted Multi-Melta).
Same goes for the bikes - fancy mounted combi-weapons, unique HTH weapons, and even more Chapter pads.
[EDIT]: Some more cool new artwork.
A bet the Marine with the Stormshield is thinking "Thank the Emperor I'm not wearing Terminator armour and leading this group, otherwise I wouldn't be able to bring this shield with me for some reason!".
I received my Death Masque set today. Holy crap, the crispness of the detail on the bits are amazing. I think these may be the nicest space marine parts ever.
A couple of things that I was immediately drawn to include the awesome combi weapons, awesome new back halves of the upper torso that include belt weapons sculpted in, incredibly tiny writing everywhere (with make-me-happy words on shoulder pads like CALTH and BADDAB), and some freaking awesome shields. The maces caught my eyes right away too.
Also, when you pop open the box, it seems like there are sprues everywyere; partly, this is because the pieces aren't all box-sized sprues. But that made me smile too
Incidentally, the photo of the bikes in the codex have an inquisition mark down the center, and Deathwatch markings (text) on the sides. This doesn't appear on the bike shot above (which just look like normal bikes).
Spoiler:
Edit: spoiler tagged image, please ignore - HBMC is totally right, below. Bike pictured in codex is from Overkill (duh).
That bike entry seems to indicate that they can't take any special weapons... hmm...
Talys wrote: Incidentally, the photo of the bikes in the codex have an inquisition mark down the center, and Deathwatch markings (text) on the sides. This doesn't appear on the bike shot above (which just look like normal bikes).
1. 'Cause they are normal bikes. 2. That bike you posted is the special White Scar one from the Overkill box. It is unique.
Talys wrote: Incidentally, the photo of the bikes in the codex have an inquisition mark down the center, and Deathwatch markings (text) on the sides. This doesn't appear on the bike shot above (which just look like normal bikes).
1. 'Cause they are normal bikes.
2. That bike you posted is the special White Scar one from the Overkill box. It is unique.
Ahhhh DUH. You're right, of course, ty
I haven't gotten around to painting my Overkill box yet (long, long ways from there...). But hey. They should make DW bikes!
tetrisphreak wrote: So here's the terminator captain from the start collecting (plus dwatch pad from upgrade Sprue), captain Artemis, and a jump captain wielding a xenophase blade that I made.
If I may ask, where are those bases from? they look like they're molded with designs?
The citadel sector imperialis bases. $33 for 60 bases in 32mm and $33 for 40 25mm and 20 40mm. I love em.
cuda1179 wrote:How many models do you suppose the average Deathwatch army will be at 1500 and 2000 points?
I'm going to guess that the average 2000 point army will be 30 to 35 models.
Based on characters and loadouts, and counting transports etc it's around 30 models at 1500 and 45 at 2000. A basic kill team with decent wargear is 200-500 points.
Crimson wrote: Would also prohibit dual-wielding pistols, but it is impractically expensive in any case.
That reminds me. I have a Howling Griffon DW Marine who is duel-wielding Grav Pisotls.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Fluffwise, it makes perfect sense for the DW to be carrying Shotguns and Boltguns
No one is arguing fluff. We're arguing that this is an unintentional part of the rules that made it to print because the people writing it never thought about it.
Mr_Rose wrote: It's trying to tell you that Riker was right and you have to decompress the shuttlebay to save the ship.
That's a deep-dish obscure reference man, but yeah, don't use the tractor beam.
Also, Kiwiland Pre-Orders are up:
DW Land Raider (comes in all three flavours):
DW Transport (might be the most mundanely named thing GW has ever released - again, comes in both flavours):
DW Commander (it's the old commander box, as we knew, but he does come with the upgrade sprue, like the two kits above, so if you're desperate for TONS of spare DW pads, this guy is your... err... guy!):
DW Commander w/Terminator Armour (as people though, it is the mostly-unavailable Termy Captain, and he comes with a whole upgrade sprue. I'm very happy about this one, as the model is ace):
DW Bundle ala 'Buy all our playsets and toys!':
Kill Team Cassius - For those of you that don't want to buy all their playsets and toys, you can just get the Overkill Marines. Remember that this is literally the only source of the DW Meltafist bit.
There... are... five... bikes!!!:
1 Kind of expected for the LR, rhino and the Razorback
2 I LOVED that commander box, it was one of the best sets GW had put out in a long while...nice to get the upgrade sprue for it.
3 Never seen the Termie kit before...kinda cool I guess...and another DW sprue bonus points.
TY for the posts and pics HBMC...
Now...I have to make a kill team that has a Death Spectre Librarian leading it, Raven Guard with lightening claws, a Imperial Fist with combi-heavy bolter, a Ultramarine and a Exorcist.... Maybe ill call them Talon Squad cause that sounds cool right
Is it just me, or are the proportions different on the Deathwatch marines from other ones?
I've been assembling the ones from from Death Masque, and the legs come up to mid chest on a calth marine, while the hips are out a lot wider (implying either very narrow waists or painful things happening to their hips) and the heads are more narrow and tall (partially to fit in the mk VIII armor necks, but makes it feel odd compared to traditional marine proportions.
The legs alone I can see being the basis of a lot of Truescale conversions.
Again I get worried about the "Our artists are only allowed to paint the things we sell!" issue, as there's a guy with a Stalker-Pattern bolter here, and guess what? He is reloading, just like the mini would be.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Is it just me, or are the proportions different on the Deathwatch marines from other ones?
I've been assembling the ones from from Death Masque, and the legs come up to mid chest on a calth marine, while the hips are out a lot wider (implying either very narrow waists or painful things happening to their hips) and the heads are more narrow and tall (partially to fit in the mk VIII armor necks, but makes it feel odd compared to traditional marine proportions
MajorWesJanson wrote: Is it just me, or are the proportions different on the Deathwatch marines from other ones?
I've been assembling the ones from from Death Masque, and the legs come up to mid chest on a calth marine, while the hips are out a lot wider (implying either very narrow waists or painful things happening to their hips) and the heads are more narrow and tall (partially to fit in the mk VIII armor necks, but makes it feel odd compared to traditional marine proportions.
The legs alone I can see being the basis of a lot of Truescale conversions.
They're actually standing up straight(ish) rather than squatting/leaning forward like 90% of marines, though, arent they?
I think the main difference here is, they're not all in the squatting pose that you usually see with space marine models. Which is certainly a welcome change in my opinion
Also- good god! Those thunder hammers are massive lol.
Again I get worried about the "Our artists are only allowed to paint the things we sell!" issue, as there's a guy with a Stalker-Pattern bolter here, and guess what? He is reloading, just like the mini would be.
A lot of the Wulfen art is the minis from the plastic set drawn and coloured in. You could almost recreate the art with miniatures if you assembled the parts correctly.
Does anyone with the codex know what the rationale is for that heavy bolter - heavy flamer gun? Is the idea that it uses suspensor technology, or something? I don't see how, fluff-wise, it is supposed to be handier and more maneuverable to use than a regular heavy bolter, given that it should weigh twice as much and be twice as bulky!
Ian Sturrock wrote: Does anyone with the codex know what the rationale is for that heavy bolter - heavy flamer gun? Is the idea that it uses suspensor technology, or something? I don't see how, fluff-wise, it is supposed to be handier and more maneuverable to use than a regular heavy bolter, given that it should weigh twice as much and be twice as bulky!
They used to haev lots of access to suspensors which would make this work.
Slightly off topic, but now that gw are selling the kill team from overkill separately, do people reckon that they'll start doing the same with the genestealer cult?
Anything but special issue item/relic or a xenophase blade. RAW however may prevent him from getting heavy weapons, or heavy thunder hammer as those specify veterans/sgts, and going by FAQs preventing apoths from getting special upgrades in SM command squads.
Million wrote: Slightly off topic, but now that gw are selling the kill team from overkill separately, do people reckon that they'll start doing the same with the genestealer cult?
If the rumors of a Genestealer Cult Codex are true (which seems likely), I can see them selling the Genestealer Cult sprues separately. In fact, I expect them to sell them in two different boxes, since the Cult leaders and stuff (Patriarch, Magus, Primus, familiars) are on one sprue, while the Hybrids, Purestrains and Abberrants are on another, larger, sprue.
Selym wrote: I got me the DW codex. Good art, interesting unit upgrades. Fairly small army.
Any questions?
What weapons can the Black Shield equip?
Only items from the Melee, Ranged and Special Weapons list. So that includes Combi-Weapons, the pistols, C:SM equivalent special weapons, the shotgun, the Stalker Bolter and your standard power weapons list. Cannot take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or any heavy weapons.
Annoying really, as I would have loved a Black Shield with HTH, as he gets double attacks in certain situations.
Selym wrote: I got me the DW codex. Good art, interesting unit upgrades. Fairly small army.
Any questions?
What weapons can the Black Shield equip?
Only items from the Melee, Ranged and Special Weapons list. So that includes Combi-Weapons, the pistols, C:SM equivalent special weapons, the shotgun, the Stalker Bolter and your standard power weapons list. Cannot take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or any heavy weapons.
Annoying really, as I would have loved a Black Shield with HTH, as he gets double attacks in certain situations.
Btw, I'm using MANZ as my Terminators here
Why can't he? The order of the datasheet says any veteran can replace his weapons with an HTH, the next says any can be upgraded to a black shield. The black shield doesn't trade weapons for the upgrade like say character models do for terminator armor.
Selym wrote: I got me the DW codex. Good art, interesting unit upgrades. Fairly small army.
Any questions?
What weapons can the Black Shield equip?
Only items from the Melee, Ranged and Special Weapons list. So that includes Combi-Weapons, the pistols, C:SM equivalent special weapons, the shotgun, the Stalker Bolter and your standard power weapons list. Cannot take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or any heavy weapons.
Annoying really, as I would have loved a Black Shield with HTH, as he gets double attacks in certain situations.
Btw, I'm using MANZ as my Terminators here
What the hell are you talking? Its:
- Any veteran may replace his weapons with a HTH - May upgrade one Veteran to a Black Shield
Is there a thread for swapping the sprues already or should one be started perhaps? I know I have no interest in the Eldar (filthy xenos!) but there are probably some players who are.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Does he stop being a Veteran when he becomes a Black Shield?
To that point his stat line does change, but to infer that upgrading him removes his heavy thunder hammer would also infer that he loses his bolter and ccw as well as any other wargear you would give a black shield to be anything but a t4 wound.
Selym wrote: I got me the DW codex. Good art, interesting unit upgrades. Fairly small army.
Any questions?
What weapons can the Black Shield equip?
Only items from the Melee, Ranged and Special Weapons list. So that includes Combi-Weapons, the pistols, C:SM equivalent special weapons, the shotgun, the Stalker Bolter and your standard power weapons list. Cannot take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or any heavy weapons.
Annoying really, as I would have loved a Black Shield with HTH, as he gets double attacks in certain situations.
Btw, I'm using MANZ as my Terminators here
What the hell are you talking? Its:
- Any veteran may replace his weapons with a HTH - May upgrade one Veteran to a Black Shield
What's preventing him from taking HTH?
The part where a Black Shield is listed separately from veterans. As seen in the unit composition statline,
Further, there are multiple wargear selection specifications; "Any Model" for stormshields and list items, "The Watch Sergeant" for WS items and "Up to 4/Any Veteran" for everything else. This indicates that Black Shield =/= Veteran.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Does he stop being a Veteran when he becomes a Black Shield?
He gets Ws5 and a new model name.
He doesn't lose the standard wargear, unless you want to rule that the Sergeant does, too. Given that there is only one "Wargear" list for the whole unit, rather than splitting it up for vets, sergeants and BS..
Million wrote: Slightly off topic, but now that gw are selling the kill team from overkill separately, do people reckon that they'll start doing the same with the genestealer cult?
The rumor was both DW and Genestealers would get a codex after their game.
(and that those books would be obsolete in 2017 when 8th edition rolled out )
Selym wrote: I got me the DW codex. Good art, interesting unit upgrades. Fairly small army.
Any questions?
What weapons can the Black Shield equip?
Only items from the Melee, Ranged and Special Weapons list. So that includes Combi-Weapons, the pistols, C:SM equivalent special weapons, the shotgun, the Stalker Bolter and your standard power weapons list. Cannot take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or any heavy weapons.
Annoying really, as I would have loved a Black Shield with HTH, as he gets double attacks in certain situations.
Btw, I'm using MANZ as my Terminators here
In that case I may end up running him with thunder hammer and storm shield.
Question. Do deathwatch still get a nonflamer heavy bolter? stormbolters on terminator armor get special ammo? and the teleport trickery can even PA Marines do it?
Storm Bolters don't get special ammo, everyone in the DW Decurion can deepstrike, but only in the Decurion formation, and you can take normal Heavy Bolters. They can also take hellfire shells for any HB.
Also the deathwatch homing beacon that characters can take as an upgrade work for terminators as well as any deathwatch deep striking via the sudden onslaught rule.
Selym wrote: I got me the DW codex. Good art, interesting unit upgrades. Fairly small army.
Any questions?
What weapons can the Black Shield equip?
Only items from the Melee, Ranged and Special Weapons list. So that includes Combi-Weapons, the pistols, C:SM equivalent special weapons, the shotgun, the Stalker Bolter and your standard power weapons list. Cannot take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or any heavy weapons.
Annoying really, as I would have loved a Black Shield with HTH, as he gets double attacks in certain situations.
Btw, I'm using MANZ as my Terminators here
In that case I may end up running him with thunder hammer and storm shield.
I think that will be his optimum setup. Assuming you consider a 1 wound toughness 4 model that costs 77 points is worth it of course.
The precedent set by the apothecary in the SM codex, combined with the wording of "any mode" versus "veteran", pretty much puts the nail in the coffin for Blackshield and HTH.
It does feel like they are dialing back the power creep, especially compared to the recent Wulfens.
Selym wrote: Storm Bolters don't get special ammo...
I wonder why?
To sell more assault cannons and heavy flamers for terminators. As why a smg that is hopper fed would have a hard time switching between 4 ammo types. That being said the option to use 2 types of special ammo or make it only fire one kind preselected would fix the logic part.
Selym wrote: I got me the DW codex. Good art, interesting unit upgrades. Fairly small army.
Any questions?
What weapons can the Black Shield equip?
Only items from the Melee, Ranged and Special Weapons list. So that includes Combi-Weapons, the pistols, C:SM equivalent special weapons, the shotgun, the Stalker Bolter and your standard power weapons list. Cannot take the Heavy Thunder Hammer or any heavy weapons.
Annoying really, as I would have loved a Black Shield with HTH, as he gets double attacks in certain situations.
Btw, I'm using MANZ as my Terminators here
What the hell are you talking? Its:
- Any veteran may replace his weapons with a HTH - May upgrade one Veteran to a Black Shield
What's preventing him from taking HTH?
However, it's in the same vein as an apothecary for SM, as they can't take wargear that other vets can.
Is the guardian spear on the second sprue or is that character model a clampack we haven't seen yet? Unfortunately made the mistake of pre ordering from gw so got to wait til Monday to see the sprues.
Promethius wrote: Is the guardian spear on the second sprue or is that character model a clampack we haven't seen yet? Unfortunately made the mistake of pre ordering from gw so got to wait til Monday to see the sprues.
Promethius wrote: Is the guardian spear on the second sprue or is that character model a clampack we haven't seen yet? Unfortunately made the mistake of pre ordering from gw so got to wait til Monday to see the sprues.
Promethius wrote: Is the guardian spear on the second sprue or is that character model a clampack we haven't seen yet? Unfortunately made the mistake of pre ordering from gw so got to wait til Monday to see the sprues.
They still haven't released pics(of him as his own pack) or prices for the Watch Master, nor the Blackstar. I hope these go up next Saturday. I can't wait.
Promethius wrote: Is the guardian spear on the second sprue or is that character model a clampack we haven't seen yet? Unfortunately made the mistake of pre ordering from gw so got to wait til Monday to see the sprues.
They still haven't released pics or prices for the Watch Master, nor the Blackstar. I hope these go up next Saturday. I can't wait.
Along with the ability to buy sprus of Stalker pattern boltguns, frag cannons, and left arms not holding power swords!
Jadenim wrote: Struggling with my memory here, but did drop pods always have locator beacons? Because that seems awesome in an army loaded with deep strikers.
Promethius wrote: Is the guardian spear on the second sprue or is that character model a clampack we haven't seen yet? Unfortunately made the mistake of pre ordering from gw so got to wait til Monday to see the sprues.
We still have at least one more week of Deathwatch releases. Next week will probably be the Watch Commander, Deathwatch Veterans, Deathwatch Terminators, and Corvus Blackstar.
In regards to the swapping of equipment I always go with the interpretation that if there is no stated order of operations then you can do which ever.
If it does not say that you have to upgrade to a blackshield first then you can swap to a thunderhammer and then change to a black shield.
Then for things like terminators where you are required to swap specific gear if you do weapon swaps before hand then you no longer meet the requirements.
Leth wrote: In regards to the swapping of equipment I always go with the interpretation that if there is no stated order of operations then you can do which ever.
If it does not say that you have to upgrade to a blackshield first then you can swap to a thunderhammer and then change to a black shield.
Then for things like terminators where you are required to swap specific gear if you do weapon swaps before hand then you no longer meet the requirements.
Any idea as to whether we'll see the Deathwatch upgrade sprue as its own standalone kit? I'd love to see it for sale, although to be honest it's looking like they're tacking on $5-7 to the price of existing kits to include the upgrade. The Terminator Captain is technically cheaper, although who knows since they've never sold him on his own before.
Promethius wrote: Is the guardian spear on the second sprue or is that character model a clampack we haven't seen yet? Unfortunately made the mistake of pre ordering from gw so got to wait til Monday to see the sprues.
We still have at least one more week of Deathwatch releases. Next week will probably be the Watch Commander, Deathwatch Veterans, Deathwatch Terminators, and Corvus Blackstar.
Lord Corellia wrote: Any idea as to whether we'll see the Deathwatch upgrade sprue as its own standalone kit? I'd love to see it for sale, although to be honest it's looking like they're tacking on $5-7 to the price of existing kits to include the upgrade. The Terminator Captain is technically cheaper, although who knows since they've never sold him on his own before.
not my ebay auction, but they are already there! $7.75 each & $8.41 postage.
4x Veterans with Missile Launchers, one with a Shotgun
4x Terminators, all CMS
1 Librarian, rolling on Divination
It's beautiful and I love it.
Aquila kill team, I imagine yes? I'd recommend giving the librarian the tome of ectoclades and rolling Geomancy or librarius.
Correct. Divination is for Ignore cover fishing or for Prescience to reroll ALL misses, beyond 1s. However, Geomancy or librarius could be great. Lots of choices on them.
According to someone who posted a summary elsewhere no. Although apparently the plan is insane anyway.
It's kind of left open ended. If not for Brother Nihilus' plasma cannon distracting him at the last moment Eldrad would surely have succeeded. As is, something did happen but it's not spelled out exactly what.
According to someone who posted a summary elsewhere no. Although apparently the plan is insane anyway.
It's kind of left open ended. If not for Brother Nihilus' plasma cannon distracting him at the last moment Eldrad would surely have succeeded. As is, something did happen but it's not spelled out exactly what.
I hope the moronic excuse for a plan GW wrote doesn't happen. It made no sense and the writer clearly either hates Eldar or doesn't understand a thing about them.
According to someone who posted a summary elsewhere no. Although apparently the plan is insane anyway.
It's kind of left open ended. If not for Brother Nihilus' plasma cannon distracting him at the last moment Eldrad would surely have succeeded. As is, something did happen but it's not spelled out exactly what.
Lol, that's a perfectly reasonable thing to be distracted by! Nothing like superheated plasma to interrupt your train of thought
Leth wrote: In regards to the swapping of equipment I always go with the interpretation that if there is no stated order of operations then you can do which ever.
If it does not say that you have to upgrade to a blackshield first then you can swap to a thunderhammer and then change to a black shield.
Then for things like terminators where you are required to swap specific gear if you do weapon swaps before hand then you no longer meet the requirements.
So on and so forth.
That's how I thought it was.
The SMFAQ says that we can't do that though.
What do you mean? It specifically says the opposite. You can buy stuff then upgrade.
I think it makes sense for a black shield to be able to take whatever equipment the other veterans can, fluff wise I see it as a marine that's out to redeem himself for his past failings whatever they might be, which is why he doubles his efforts (attacks) when the odds are against his squad, doesn't make him any less of a veteran than anyone else in his squad. Would be nice to see a few hints towards chapters such as a space wolf lone wolf who's out to redeem himself because all of his pack mates were killed and he feels like he failed them, no chapter markings but maybe a wolf tooth talisman and space wolf head hinting that way.
Selym wrote: With any luck, I'll be able to convince some people to stay in 7E. No way in hell am I buying 8E.
7th is an overloaded crap ruleset. However unless things drastically change no codex is obsolete, especially since a lot of things are already changing for the inevitable 8th. Dreadnauts getting more atks, heavy bolters being assault 3.
Selym wrote: A special HB is getting Assault 3. In the same codex, there is the normal Heavy 3 HB.
And you don't think like grav this won't be given out beyond this codex in the future?
Good luck with that
It probably won't seeing as DW have special stuff anyway. Plus it's not like they just gave grav to everyone. They gave it to SM and gave the rest scraps because we aren't the favourites.
Leth wrote: In regards to the swapping of equipment I always go with the interpretation that if there is no stated order of operations then you can do which ever.
If it does not say that you have to upgrade to a blackshield first then you can swap to a thunderhammer and then change to a black shield.
Then for things like terminators where you are required to swap specific gear if you do weapon swaps before hand then you no longer meet the requirements.
So on and so forth.
That's how I thought it was.
The SMFAQ says that we can't do that though.
What do you mean? It specifically says the opposite. You can buy stuff then upgrade.
Spoiler:
Read the written rules don't use the picture.......
Selym wrote: A special HB is getting Assault 3. In the same codex, there is the normal Heavy 3 HB.
And you don't think like grav this won't be given out beyond this codex in the future?
Good luck with that
Well since deathwatch can only have lascannons on Razorbacks, land raiders, or dreadnoughts I'd say there is evidence for some man-portable weaponry to remain codex specific. Also no access to grav cannons, just guns or pistols.
Selym wrote: A special HB is getting Assault 3. In the same codex, there is the normal Heavy 3 HB.
And you don't think like grav this won't be given out beyond this codex in the future?
Good luck with that
Infernus Heavy Bolter:
"The Deathwatch mag-clamp rare suspensor disks onto their infernus heavy bolters that reduce the weapon's effective weight considerably."
All SM codexes get their special kit. This is the DW allotment.
Seriously have you ever played 40k?
Go look at all the weapons and vehicles that were originally chapter exclusive that get moved into other codexs the next edition. That list is huge because almost no weapon in 40k stays exclusive. Your exclusive is the flyer which I fully expect to also see in the inqusitor codex in 8th.
Ffs the custodes spear was suppose to ONLY be on custodes.....
I'd like to see Covenant return in 40k 28mm scale though.... All those oldies a matter of fact.
I don't I foresee 28mm inqusitor as another box game so they can sell more models in a box set game and then sell it again in 40k. That's the pattern.
Let's be honest, 56mm scale was cool. But making scenery for it was a nightmare. My brother and I would frequently end up playing on a pretty dull table for it. And metal models (in my opinion at least) were (and are) a huge pain in the bum.
28mm Inquisitor would be a lot of fun, I think. 28mm Eisenhorn would look amazing with the greatcoat and power sword etc.
Well since deathwatch can only have lascannons or Razorbacks, land raiders, or dreadnoughts I'd say there is evidence for some man-portable weaponry to remain codex specific. Also no access to grav cannons, just guns or pistols.
I suppose the only exception to that would be the Command LR from Warhammer World. They will undoubtedly be able to use that grav cannon.
Selym wrote: A special HB is getting Assault 3. In the same codex, there is the normal Heavy 3 HB.
And you don't think like grav this won't be given out beyond this codex in the future?
Good luck with that
Infernus Heavy Bolter:
"The Deathwatch mag-clamp rare suspensor disks onto their infernus heavy bolters that reduce the weapon's effective weight considerably."
All SM codexes get their special kit. This is the DW allotment.
Seriously have you ever played 40k?
Go look at all the weapons and vehicles that were originally chapter exclusive that get moved into other codexs the next edition. That list is huge because almost no weapon in 40k stays exclusive. Your exclusive is the flyer which I fully expect to also see in the inqusitor codex in 8th.
Ffs the custodes spear was suppose to ONLY be on custodes.....
Played 40k since 2007 m8. Stop panicking. Gak's already fethed.
I love how there's all this doomsaying about 8th, despite there being literally zero hard evidence as to what will come to pass. The only real clue we have about it is, that they're moving the story on a little. That's it. Can we unpucker our sphincters now, please?
angelofvengeance wrote: I love how there's all this doomsaying about 8th, despite there being literally zero hard evidence as to what will come to pass. The only real clue we have about it is, that they're moving the story on a little. That's it. Can we unpucker our sphincters now, please?
Keep the points costs and missions, but make the gameplay more similar to age of sigmar and you'll have a superb scifi war game that's easy to learn, difficult to master, and affordable to start. Yes I want free rules for every miniature and free base rules.
angelofvengeance wrote: I love how there's all this doomsaying about 8th, despite there being literally zero hard evidence as to what will come to pass. The only real clue we have about it is, that they're moving the story on a little. That's it. Can we unpucker our sphincters now, please?
There is no panick about it however weapon/vehicle exclusives don't last long in 40k.
There is a massive list of weapons that started out as exclusives to one chapter that is now available to all.
Something as silly as suspensors that make heavy bolters assault 3 isn't going to stay exclusive for long.
And quite frankly heavy bolters can use the upgrade.
Thing is, Deathwatch have had Assault style heavy bolsters since the beginning, way back towards the end of second edition. They haven't cut across to other chapters in all that time so why now?
I think the DW will keep a lot of its unique stuff in it. It has to stand out. Imagine if all the chapters started using Grey Knight armor and weapons/schemes. It would look stupid. it takes away what makes them unique.
I would be annoyed if they go and start handing those out to every chapter.
In a mixed force the size difference isn't really noticeable. This is the contents of overkill and death masque plus standard tacticals kitted out with dw gear and insignias.
Well there goes my Thousand Sons blackshield idea considering the size problem
Not really a problem. They're just not squatting as much, like the dozen other SM models in the range. Plus, in the background fluff, everyone reacts differently to the enhancements when they become Astartes. A bit of variety in your marines wouldn't do any harm.
Gamgee wrote: I think the DW will keep a lot of its unique stuff in it. It has to stand out. Imagine if all the chapters started using Grey Knight armor and weapons/schemes. It would look stupid. it takes away what makes them unique.
I would be annoyed if they go and start handing those out to every chapter.
there is very little that is unique to grey knights anymore except the baby carriage. Heck even sanctic powers are available to all....psyflame ammunition or condemnor bolts yup available to other factions as well.
Oh look the stormraven gunship heck even in the lore it was grey knight only guess who else got it in 6th ......everyone.....
Thanks for the perfect example of what I meant...
Gamgee wrote: Well I hope that gutting doesn't happen to DW.
Well the stormraven gunship released as a greyknights exclusive and now everyone has one when the first death from skies was released...
And honestly suspenders for heavy bolters isn't exactly a relic item...it might be rare but no more rare than the ancient power weapons which is so rare every ogryn, sergeant, and marine can buy one now.
The corvus will likely stay Exclusive to death watch only because it has inqusitor symbols all over but even then I expect it to be utilized by the inqusition as well, but technically they should have access to everything.
Selym wrote: A special HB is getting Assault 3. In the same codex, there is the normal Heavy 3 HB.
And you don't think like grav this won't be given out beyond this codex in the future?
Good luck with that
Infernus Heavy Bolter:
"The Deathwatch mag-clamp rare suspensor disks onto their infernus heavy bolters that reduce the weapon's effective weight considerably."
All SM codexes get their special kit. This is the DW allotment.
Seriously have you ever played 40k?
Go look at all the weapons and vehicles that were originally chapter exclusive that get moved into other codexs the next edition. That list is huge because almost no weapon in 40k stays exclusive. Your exclusive is the flyer which I fully expect to also see in the inqusitor codex in 8th.
Ffs the custodes spear was suppose to ONLY be on custodes.....
As gungo properly points we were able to witness changes like this with Harlies Holo-fields (from+1 cover save to 5++ save) who got later implemented in codex craftworld.
pm713 wrote: We have a very liberal idea of everyone seeing as everyone seems to be Space Marines and that's it.
Since when were power weapons relics....
They are not quite relic rare by according to lore....
"Power Weapons are rare and greatly coveted personal close combat melee weapons that are used on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. Few members of the Adeptus Mechanicus retain the knowledge necessary to make these deadly weapons, and those that are in existence are often hundreds or even thousands of standard years old. Only the most powerful and influential members of the Imperium possess a power weapon as a result."
pm713 wrote: We have a very liberal idea of everyone seeing as everyone seems to be Space Marines and that's it.
Since when were power weapons relics....
Since forever in the fluff. Much like suits of terminator armour, they are prized Chapter relics.
The individual chapter ones yes but power weapons overall aren't incredibly rare relics. They can still be made fairly easily.
No they can't you might be confusing power weapons with shock weapons used by the adeptus arbiters. That's just a taser on a maul. A power weapon is a energy field that disintegrates armour. That's not exactly common knowledge to make anymore.
Blood Angels have sanguinary priests
Space wolves have frost weapons, wolves, wolfen, thunder cav
Deathwatch have army wide special ammo, HTH, assault heavy bolters which they had all the way back in chapter approved, I can see them keeping the assault heavy bolters, vanilla marines I could see probably getting the heavy thunder hammers, melta fists and possibly stalker bolters but specific codex marines still retain a lot of their own equipment. I don't see vanilla marines getting death masks, carmine blades(or whatever they are called) frost weapons, nemesis force weapons etc.
angelofvengeance wrote: I love how there's all this doomsaying about 8th, despite there being literally zero hard evidence as to what will come to pass. The only real clue we have about it is, that they're moving the story on a little. That's it. Can we unpucker our sphincters now, please?
Keep the points costs and missions, but make the gameplay more similar to age of sigmar and you'll have a superb scifi war game that's easy to learn, difficult to master, and affordable to start. Yes I want free rules for every miniature and free base rules.
What's difficult to master about everyone running into a blob in the middle of the table and headbutting until one side's eliminated?
Now, 40K is hardly some grand strategy game, but warts & all comparing it to AoS is like comparing chess with snakes & ladders.
angelofvengeance wrote: I love how there's all this doomsaying about 8th, despite there being literally zero hard evidence as to what will come to pass. The only real clue we have about it is, that they're moving the story on a little. That's it. Can we unpucker our sphincters now, please?
Keep the points costs and missions, but make the gameplay more similar to age of sigmar and you'll have a superb scifi war game that's easy to learn, difficult to master, and affordable to start. Yes I want free rules for every miniature and free base rules.
What's difficult to master about everyone running into a blob in the middle of the table and headbutting until one side's eliminated?
Now, 40K is hardly some grand strategy game, but warts & all comparing it to AoS is like comparing chess with snakes & ladders.
Yeah, that's AoS if you don't play any missions or objectives, which is what 40K is if you don't play any missions or objectives. That's like turning chess into checkers because you can't be bothered to play it legitimately.
Mantle wrote: Blood Angels have sanguinary priests
Space wolves have frost weapons, wolves, wolfen, thunder cav
Deathwatch have army wide special ammo, HTH, assault heavy bolters which they had all the way back in chapter approved, I can see them keeping the assault heavy bolters, vanilla marines I could see probably getting the heavy thunder hammers, melta fists and possibly stalker bolters but specific codex marines still retain a lot of their own equipment. I don't see vanilla marines getting death masks, carmine blades(or whatever they are called) frost weapons, nemesis force weapons etc.
Blood Angels had a ton of exclusive items that were given out to other chapters and sanguin priests are basically chaplains of a different name.
Space wolves have a few unique items still especially since thier codex just got a bunch of new units and while I don't think Wulfen will be going to other chapters. Space Wolves tend to have units that are copies of other units just different. Thing like thunder calves are pretty much the space wolves versions of bikers.
However the fact that there are still unique units in most armies especially new units still doesn't change the fact MANY units that were originally exclusive don't stay exclusive for long and end up in other chapters. An old codex like grey Knights that hasn't received any new units in a while shows what exactly happens. The stormraven, sanctic, condemnor bolts, psyflame weapons all became available to other codexs.
angelofvengeance wrote: I love how there's all this doomsaying about 8th, despite there being literally zero hard evidence as to what will come to pass. The only real clue we have about it is, that they're moving the story on a little. That's it. Can we unpucker our sphincters now, please?
It's educated speculation. 7th Ed was the chance to remove all the bloated nonsense... wait... I'll just quote myself, rather than typing it out again:
I could almost live with it if 7th Ed was GW making a new edition to fix the problems of 6th - like a 'break glass in case of stupidity' situation where they've seen what 40K has become (allies shenanigans, dataslates, and other nonsense) and they decided the best way to fix it was to tear the Band-Aid off quickly and reset everything with a new edition. But they're not doing that. They're adding more extraneous nonsense. More charts. More things to roll on. More cards (which I refuse to buy now). More dataslates (which are just DLC... and I have real problems with DLC that extend way beyond GW's method of selling them). More blatant disregard for the fluff (now Eldar can summon Slaaneshi Daemons every turn, Inquisitors and Dark Angels are BFFs, Dark Eldar would totally ally with a Slaaneshi Daemon army... but Guard will never ally with Chaos because Traitor Guard and reasons reasons reasons). The game has become "buy all our playsets and toys", where simply buying GW minis is the HHHobby rather than using them.
Also, Good Guy Deathwatch even make home visits now:
AoS with the generals handbook actually plays out like a game. Without it, the game is exactly meet in the middle and roll better. It seems GW's writers came around to that idea which is why I think if they scale back the complexity of 40k, it will maintain the things that they fixed in AoS this year.
One change that would mirror sigmar would be remove instant death, make it so characters can't join units and buff their stats accordingly as they'll be solo. Change vehicles to operate with wounds, give them stats similar to AoS behemoths. Still have flyers, transports, armor saves, ap values etc. keep it 40k but reduce the amount of charts to roll on and super buff deathstar units that are nigh unkillable. It can be done. I enjoy 7th Ed, I have a local play group and we have balanced fun games but I do see potential for 8th to make the game far less unbalanced with just some key changes.
Off topic as all get out, and I do apologize for that. I'm getting my first full game with deathwatch on Monday and while I'm not sure what points we will play I'm excited to try them out.
just cracked open the Death Masque box...
holy crap!!!
i am in love...
Artemis, Eldrad, DW accessory sprue, and Veteran sprue are all amazing!!!
mkviii parts look awesome...
the new legs are a great touch...
the torsos are badass, and the backpacks have more plating on top, and cool round vents on the bottom sides, rather than the normal square ones...
tower shields, maces, heavy thunder hammers, and heavy weapons are beautiful, but the stand-out, for me, are the moulded chapter pads...
Raven Guard, Minotaurs, Howling Griffons, Silver Skulls, Iron Hands, Raptors, Salamanders, Brazen Claws, and more...
the detail is so crisp!!!
even better, building your 5 Vets, each from a different Chapter, leaves you 13 extra pads to go along with your accessory sprue
Christmas came early, this year this thread has been the most fun i've had on here since the Overkill leaks...
I have my Death Masque box and DW codex (with datacards as well)...
I love the models... I have harlequins to add to my eldar army... I have plastic Eldrad...
But above all i have (with DW:Overkill) the start of my DW army...
I love the Artemis model, very inspiring, and i love the othe models too... But the kits... Well this is a bit dissapointing...
All that Left arms with power weapons and just one empty one (reloading) it's a let down... A few less power weapons with just the hand and a plenty of handless Left arms would be better...
Just one stalker bolter is a let down... Shotguns with Left hand moulded on is a let down...
A lot of bare heads and just 5 helmets is another let down...
On the upgrade sprue 10 pads when you need 5 per squad is a let down Too... Give me 5 pads but put on the sprue a couple of pieces for the bikes (at least the soecial anno bolters) or the melta bit to attach to the terminatore power fists or even a terminator torso with a =I= icon...
It's nice to have finally a DW codex but the kit composition and some weird rules/option in the codex (that is basically aquila kill teams army wide) are a big let down to me...
I just can't stop thinking about modelling a power loader in homepage to aliens, maybe counts as a dreadnought or venerable dreadnought? Would base it off either venerable dreadnought with open sarcophagus or convert a dread knight.
Dammit - wish my box would just haul ass and get here already. Did have an amazing afternoon painting though. Tuned into mi_cho stream over on twitch and painted for like 4 hours straight. Sweeeeeeet. Now where's my boxed set??? Gak - it's Sunday :/
Devilmixer wrote:so I feel like I cant put bikes and jumppack Guys in a landraider but can some one point me to where in the rules or codex it says i cant?
in the codex it it says the landraider redeemer can carry 16 models
Selym wrote:Bikes are Very Bulky as per BRB. So go right ahead
Personally the BRB, only Infantry (not Jet or Jump Pack Infantry) can embark on Vehicles unless otherwise stated. So no embarking bikes or Jump Packs in Land Raiders.
Is Death Masque and the DW kits (Captains, Bikes, LR, etc.) a splash release or is DM here to stay and the rest is a splash or everything stays or...? Because GW manages to release not only new Marines, but BIGGER Marines in a decently priced bundle right after I buy my first -totally overpriced- loyalist SM plastic kit, ever. Well, two and half weeks later and I still want those Sternguard bits, but come on. No I have no chance to get DM right away.
Binabik15 wrote: Is Death Masque and the DW kits (Captains, Bikes, LR, etc.) a splash release or is DM here to stay and the rest is a splash or everything stays or...? Because GW manages to release not only new Marines, but BIGGER Marines in a decently priced bundle right after I buy my first -totally overpriced- loyalist SM plastic kit, ever. Well, two and half weeks later and I still want those Sternguard bits, but come on. No I have no chance to get DM right away.
I've been told that Death Masque is a limited release. How limited is anyone's guess. I would assume it will be around for as long as the Blood Angels Vs Nids one was.
Binabik15 wrote: Is Death Masque and the DW kits (Captains, Bikes, LR, etc.) a splash release or is DM here to stay and the rest is a splash or everything stays or...? Because GW manages to release not only new Marines, but BIGGER Marines in a decently priced bundle right after I buy my first -totally overpriced- loyalist SM plastic kit, ever. Well, two and half weeks later and I still want those Sternguard bits, but come on. No I have no chance to get DM right away.
I've been told that Death Masque is a limited release. How limited is anyone's guess. I would assume it will be around for as long as the Blood Angels Vs Nids one was.
Yeah it was hinted something along those lines by my local redshirt, he believe not limited in a fixed number but something that will last 3-4 months until next *part of the history* unravels and a new starter set comes with new forces.
Looks like it's just a posing thing to me, the BaC one is more squat than the Deathwatch marine. Other than that I'd say they're the 'same size,' because why would the GW we know not try and maximize sales of their other marine kits by changing the scale on the Deathwatch?
Looks like they've got a piece of blue tac in where the legs seat into the torso parts to me, as well as a posing thing. As far as scale goes they don't look any bigger than normal marines to me.
They're not so much bigger, maybe just a bit bulkier. I've assembled and primed 50 deathwatch over the past two days and the DW veterans don't stand out in the crowd at all.
The Deathwatch dudes are taller because they're standing up straight instead of squatting like standard Marine models. Same with the Vanguard vets and assault Marines.
I wonder if we will get a Start Collecting Deathwatch and Start Collecting Harlequins out of this. They could do them fairly easily without stepping on the toes of the Death Masque box, I am sure.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I wonder if we will get a Start Collecting Deathwatch and Start Collecting Harlequins out of this. They could do them fairly easily without stepping on the toes of the Death Masque box, I am sure.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I wonder if we will get a Start Collecting Deathwatch and Start Collecting Harlequins out of this. They could do them fairly easily without stepping on the toes of the Death Masque box, I am sure.
I would imagine they will come after Death Masque becomes unavailable.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I wonder if we will get a Start Collecting Deathwatch and Start Collecting Harlequins out of this. They could do them fairly easily without stepping on the toes of the Death Masque box, I am sure.
Unless they added another set of deathwatch veterans it's a better savings to split the death masque box with an eldar player while they're still in production. After that, the set as a start collecting would make sense.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lol triple quote.
I really wish they had done Death Masque the way they did Shadow Force Solaq and whatever the Tau one was called. Separate boxes for the same campaign. Then there would be no need for a Start Collecting for either.
I got my box today. I am a bit disappointed my rule book came a bit damaged. Nothing too overwhelming terrible but if GW wants to be known for "premium products" that are sold at premium prices then I expect a little better.
MrFlutterPie wrote: I got my box today. I am a bit disappointed my rule book came a bit damaged. Nothing too overwhelming terrible but if GW wants to be known for "premium products" that are sold at premium prices then I expect a little better.
They are pretty much number one for replacing with no quibbles. If it's damaged give them a shout and you'll get a new one sent, or knowing how they sometimes are a whole new set! I once complained about a missing head on an Ork Warbike sprue and they sent me SIX WHOLE WARBIKES as replacement. Fanks Gee Dubs!
I once had a LRBT hull that didn't quite fit. Free Russ for me within the week. Fixed the hull issue with warm water and elastic bands and ended up 2-for-1. Just don't abuse it. Much as I hate GW.
MrFlutterPie wrote: I got my box today. I am a bit disappointed my rule book came a bit damaged. Nothing too overwhelming terrible but if GW wants to be known for "premium products" that are sold at premium prices then I expect a little better.
How was it damaged?
Got the same Problem: RB which lies on top has the first few Pages cracked beneath the foil and the whole right edge ist damaged. The foil itself has some small holes in it. I think the packing machine caused this whole Issue.
It's likely a splash release, then them being repacked afterwards.
My suspicion is that after a while, these Deathwatch Land Raider and Deathwatch Transport boxes will be phased out, and so will the existing Land Raider, Land Raider Crusader, Rhino and Razorback boxes They'll be replaced by a Land Raider box which contains all three variants, and a Space Marine Transport box.
MrFlutterPie wrote: I got my box today. I am a bit disappointed my rule book came a bit damaged. Nothing too overwhelming terrible but if GW wants to be known for "premium products" that are sold at premium prices then I expect a little better.
How was it damaged?
Got the same Problem: RB which lies on top has the first few Pages cracked beneath the foil and the whole right edge ist damaged. The foil itself has some small holes in it. I think the packing machine caused this whole Issue.
This exactly what happened with my rulebook.
I bought my box from a FLGS and not GW. Would they still do anything to help me out?
My small rule book was damaged as well. Very creased and the page edges were wavy. "glad" it wasn't just mine, though it does suck for people. That and they didn't ship those dice with my order. I'll Chime in tomorrow after I call about these issues(rule book in particular for this thread) and let people know if they plan on doing anything about the issue.
The Vanguard Veteran kit is three years old and the Deathwatch Veteran is the same height as it. I stood my VVs next to several other marines I have and the height difference is minimal if non-existant. Perhaps the BaC Marines are SHORT.
looking at the pre-orders, the Terminus Ultra Captain is "only" $25...
interesting price point, considering that the two Termie Librarians are $30 and $31, while the BA Termie Captain is $33...
the DW Termie Captain even comes with an extra sprue, just for the one pad...
the old school power armor Captain didn't go up in price, either, so they are throwing in the DW accessory sprue for free...
nice to see an old re-issue not including a price rise...
conker249 wrote: My small rule book was damaged as well. Very creased and the page edges were wavy. "glad" it wasn't just mine, though it does suck for people. That and they didn't ship those dice with my order. I'll Chime in tomorrow after I call about these issues(rule book in particular for this thread) and let people know if they plan on doing anything about the issue.
Mine was damaged as well! The edges were all bent and tattered all along the book. The rest was fine, but the corners and edges are all messed up.
jah-joshua wrote: looking at the pre-orders, the Terminus Ultra Captain is "only" $25...
interesting price point, considering that the two Termie Librarians are $30 and $31, while the BA Termie Captain is $33...
the DW Termie Captain even comes with an extra sprue, just for the one pad...
the old school power armor Captain didn't go up in price, either, so they are throwing in the DW accessory sprue for free...
nice to see an old re-issue not including a price rise...
GW cheers
jah
Yup. I will be getting him and the regular Captain kit for acquisition of the upgrade sprue and for more bodies.
jah-joshua wrote: looking at the pre-orders, the Terminus Ultra Captain is "only" $25...
interesting price point, considering that the two Termie Librarians are $30 and $31, while the BA Termie Captain is $33...
the DW Termie Captain even comes with an extra sprue, just for the one pad...
the old school power armor Captain didn't go up in price, either, so they are throwing in the DW accessory sprue for free...
nice to see an old re-issue not including a price rise...
cheers
jah
Perhaps Rountree really is trying to make things better...
I think he is just using pretty basic techniques from behavioural economics. Both those kits seem like a 'bargain' because they are cheaper than the existing kits AND they come with a bonus Deathwatch sprue. So it's like you're getting the DW sprue for free! For *less than free*. And that sounds like a fantastic price. So we are all tempted to pay $25 for one plastic miniature.
This whole release is working from a sales perspective. Havent spent this much in new models...ever. I will be picking up the upgrade sprue from ebay depending on how much they are. I have 5 drop pods that need 4 symbols a piece for the doors. Luckily the Aquila takes the spot of one door and I have a bunch of those.
Ian Sturrock wrote: I think he is just using pretty basic techniques from behavioural economics. Both those kits seem like a 'bargain' because they are cheaper than the existing kits AND they come with a bonus Deathwatch sprue. So it's like you're getting the DW sprue for free! For *less than free*. And that sounds like a fantastic price. So we are all tempted to pay $25 for one plastic miniature.
...I know I am.
I will probably be getting more than one. I have Terminators and Tactical Squads to convert!
I'm wondering if we'll see more Mk 8 suits show up on sprues, now that they seem to have ironed out exactly what changes are on all the components.
Helmet, more "barrel" shaped/slimmed down cheek areas, flatter muzzle.
Torso, pretty much what we've seen for years, with the abdominal plate and gorget.
Rt arms all have that data link computer thingy, but that may be DW specific.
Legs have not just the ankle discs, but reinforcement plates at the upper hips (kind of like tassets, but not hanging), and the complex curves in the lower leg (front profile of the shin area is slightly concave, calf area has a swell at the lower part, a more complex curved profile to the sides).
And, of course, the cylindrical shaped lower backpack vents.
Looking closely at the parts on the sprue, I really got the feel that they decided to really bring more to the Mk 8 suits with this release than the standard gorget and ankle domes that characterized it in the art and minis before now, and wonder if they plan to put out more of it, now that the design aesthetic is thoroughly nailed down.
Well it seems my Kantor stern guard spam army will slip easily to DW and team well with them. All I really need are some bikers to divide up for shenanigans and those sweet sweet flyers. Plus half of death mask.
The more I think about it, I think I am going to make my Deathwatch a second Detachment for my Crimson Fists. Attach a Locator Beacon to one of my Drop Pods to help guide the Black Spear Strike Force down. Deep Striking Deathwatch Frag Cannons are better than Tank Hunters Devastators anyway. The Black Spear is a great way to make a cheap Allied force without using the Allied Detachment. Basically does the same thing better.
jah-joshua wrote: looking at the pre-orders, the Terminus Ultra Captain is "only" $25...
interesting price point, considering that the two Termie Librarians are $30 and $31, while the BA Termie Captain is $33...
the DW Termie Captain even comes with an extra sprue, just for the one pad...
the old school power armor Captain didn't go up in price, either, so they are throwing in the DW accessory sprue for free...
nice to see an old re-issue not including a price rise...
cheers
jah
Yeah, I almost bought one of the reboxed commanders just for the hell of it, and I don't even need the model. I have Artemis, and a second Artemis to convert to wear a helmet and carry different weapons. Lucky me, self control kicked in.
Well, self control, and I won a Rodricus Grytt on eBay and shelled out $19 for him instead.
I haven't played 40k since 5th and don't plan on playing 7th even though this set includes the rules. I had been looking to buy a death jester and a troupe for possible home brew play in Deathwatch Overkill.
Considering those 7 models would have set me back $66, I took the plunge and bought this boxed set. Who knows but they may be useful if Age of the Emperor comes out
Geez, I really need my codex to show up so I can figure out how I want to build the minis I DO have on hand. Kind of frustrating, and only made worse by the odd selection of stuff on the sprue, keeping me from just kitting out the first group as bog standard bolter guys.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: So should I go ahead and cast the melta fist? Think ill use 30k bikes and the odd darkangel bits. Since the bikers look to be a missed opportunity
It's pretty easy to bash a meltagun and chainfist together but if you have the means to recast branatar's arm go for it.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: So should I go ahead and cast the melta fist? Think ill use 30k bikes and the odd darkangel bits. Since the bikers look to be a missed opportunity
It's pretty easy to bash a meltagun and chainfist together but if you have the means to recast branatar's arm go for it.
Indeed. Taking the combi-Melta top and grafting it to the forearm should work well enough.
Still working my way through the codex and its attendant lore, but I''m kinda bummed that Watch Fortress Erioch - from FFG's Deathwatch RPG - doesn't seem to get any kind of love or attention. I don't think it is even on the map of the Watch Fortresses...
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: So should I go ahead and cast the melta fist? Think ill use 30k bikes and the odd darkangel bits. Since the bikers look to be a missed opportunity
It's pretty easy to bash a meltagun and chainfist together but if you have the means to recast branatar's arm go for it.
Indeed. Taking the combi-Melta top and grafting it to the forearm should work well enough.
I'm going to use the meltaguns from the centurion box.
I'm tempted to do at least one terminator with a back mounted Tau fusion blaster to count as the melta fist. Maybe a little bracket to make it shoulder mounted.
BlueGrassGamer wrote: Still working my way through the codex and its attendant lore, but I''m kinda bummed that Watch Fortress Erioch - from FFG's Deathwatch RPG - doesn't seem to get any kind of love or attention. I don't think it is even on the map of the Watch Fortresses...
That does suck. Just putting it on the map would've been fine.
Ian Sturrock wrote: I think he is just using pretty basic techniques from behavioural economics. Both those kits seem like a 'bargain' because they are cheaper than the existing kits AND they come with a bonus Deathwatch sprue. So it's like you're getting the DW sprue for free! For *less than free*. And that sounds like a fantastic price. So we are all tempted to pay $25 for one plastic miniature.
...I know I am.
Well he's taking small steps but it's still ridiculous price of ONE miniature but as long as GW insists on plastic for characters characters will never be priced sensibly.
Ian Sturrock wrote: I think he is just using pretty basic techniques from behavioural economics. Both those kits seem like a 'bargain' because they are cheaper than the existing kits AND they come with a bonus Deathwatch sprue. So it's like you're getting the DW sprue for free! For *less than free*. And that sounds like a fantastic price. So we are all tempted to pay $25 for one plastic miniature.
...I know I am.
Well he's taking small steps but it's still ridiculous price of ONE miniature but as long as GW insists on plastic for characters characters will never be priced sensibly.
Except the modern plastic characters have all been brilliant (bar some missteps in the AOS range) and plastic is miles easier to work with than resin or metal so why shouldn't they?
Ian Sturrock wrote: I think he is just using pretty basic techniques from behavioural economics. Both those kits seem like a 'bargain' because they are cheaper than the existing kits AND they come with a bonus Deathwatch sprue. So it's like you're getting the DW sprue for free! For *less than free*. And that sounds like a fantastic price. So we are all tempted to pay $25 for one plastic miniature.
...I know I am.
Well he's taking small steps but it's still ridiculous price of ONE miniature but as long as GW insists on plastic for characters characters will never be priced sensibly.
Except the modern plastic characters have all been brilliant (bar some missteps in the AOS range) and plastic is miles easier to work with than resin or metal so why shouldn't they?
I have to agree, the plastic characters are great, and can be easily fount for 25% cheaper than GW sell them for. They are great for conversion work and so so so much easier to work with than both metal and resin.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Because they're rip-offs. Virtually everything GW sells is a rip-off. And they keep getting more expensive.
The prices are an absolute joke. It takes some really intentional self-delusion not to see that Bull0.
I would've well agreed about the prices a few months ago but they seem to have levelled out now... although it's probably too early to call it a trend (but 6 months ago that deathwatch terminator captain would've been £20, no possible doubt).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Price for the individual deathwatch veteran squad boxes will help when that eventually comes out, and the watch master. I'm obviously hoping the price restraint continues.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Because they're rip-offs. Virtually everything GW sells is a rip-off. And they keep getting more expensive.
The prices are an absolute joke. It takes some really intentional self-delusion not to see that Bull0.
if you live in Oz, sure...
can't say i've ever felt ripped-off by any of the plastic clampack characters...
they are more dynamic than any of the old metal minis (which i was already a fan of), and have the advantage of being cut to enhance the negative space and flow...
given the choice of a Finecast model or a plastic one, i'll take the plastic every time...
if i'm not a huge fan of the sculpt, like plastic Grimnar and Wulfen, i'll give them a pass...
choosing between the old metal Enginseer, or the new plastic one, i'll take the new one...
you are free to not like the pricing, but saying people are intentionally self-delusional because they are happy to pay for great sculpts is just plain rude...
you just need to buy from a discounter in the US or UK to avoid the ridiculous Kraken tax
i'm stoked that the DW Termie Captain has been released for $25, $8 less than i expected...
i bet the Watch Commander will be the same price...
The price of the Terminator Captain must be particularly galling for those, and there were plenty of them, that paid £50 odd on ebay when it was less freely available. All that mark up and lacking the Deathwatch upgrade sprue. Personally around £12-15 is my maximum on single character clam packs, but I can understand how that is too much for a lot of people.
As others have suggested the true test on the pricing is the RRP of the Kill Team boxed set. That said, overall I am loving this release.
Bugger ebay, I feel bad for anyone that bought that big strike force box because they really wanted that exclusive captain. Although I also feel jealous because to buy that for that you'd have to live in some sort of dwarven hold and floss with ten pound notes
On the subject of plastic characters - I bought a BA terminator Librarian to add to my Deathwatch on saturday. Beautiful model, no failcast issues, and it just feels right.
n0t_u wrote: Is that Iyanna Arienal in the bottom left corner? Looks like a conversion of the spiritseer though, just a head swap.
Spoiler:
It could be or it could be spiritseer/high elf head conversion, although I can't recognise the head. There's not that big difference between new Eldrad and geneirc farseer. I hope it's a new model, even if it'd turn out to be rather plain.
jah-joshua wrote: can't say i've ever felt ripped-off by any of the plastic clampack characters...
Goody for you [Rule #1 - Alpharius]. You can join the likes Talys in the "Don't care, got mine!" club for people who don't understand why AUD$115 for these mother fethers is a massive rip.
But why don't we get back on the topic of the Deathwatch hey?
I have managed to end up with 6 sets of DW Vets (all at a significant discount), and also managed to find someone selling the Overkill Imperial Fist w/Frag Cannon on eBay, locally no less, giving me 8 Frag Cannons total (I have a thing with odd numbers, and buying a 7th box of Vets would have given me 8 Frag Cannons, but 7 Infernus Heavy Bolters, and we just can't have that now can we? ). I'm happy that the Overkill Imperial Fist's Chapter Pad is separate, but he does have a fist on his chest... I guess I'll make him a Sons of Dorn Marine. I do have a pad for that, believe it or not.
Bulldogging wrote: I'm still salty about them having the power swords attached to the left arms. I don't get it. It goes against their new standard of arms/hands.
I'm actually ok that all the bolters are one-handed. I have a lot of Deathwatch Marines, and the constant struggle has always been giving them one-handed bolters. So many of mine have converted arms from the old 2nd Ed multi-part plastic Marines, as they're one of the few kits with arms that weren't designed to hold the bolter across the chest. Even then I've been converting assault Marine arms and all sorts of things.
And then along comes this box, where all the bolter arms are one-handed! It's like the read my mind... several years too late!
Bulldogging wrote: I'm still salty about them having the power swords attached to the left arms. I don't get it. It goes against their new standard of arms/hands.
I'm actually ok that all the bolters are one-handed. I have a lot of Deathwatch Marines, and the constant struggle has always been giving them one-handed bolters. So many of mine have converted arms from the old 2nd Ed multi-part plastic Marines, as they're one of the few kits with arms that weren't designed to hold the bolter across the chest. Even then I've been converting assault Marine arms and all sorts of things.
And then along comes this box, where all the bolter arms are one-handed! It's like the read my mind... several years too late!
Oh I like the 1 handed bolters! I just wish they had empty left hands+hands like the 3 hands in the newer Tact box. Luckily I have a bunch of those sitting around.
On a related note, does anyone know if the new version of White Dwarf will still do rules? I'm hoping it will a have a formation(better) for Deathwatch.
Hmmm. My box has not shipped yet and I can't view my Order History on GW's site. I was hoping it would reach me by the middle of the week since I will be out of town this weekend and all of next week. I was hoping to get to work on selling the Harlequins section of the box.
Checking eBay, additional Veterans kits average about $45 USD with shipping. I may need to order a pair of those. I am really waiting on the Corvus ship since that is the last bit I need for my DW force.
BTW, anyone interested in the Harlequins, I will sell them for $75+shipping or best offer.
The biker kit is essentially the older biker kit, but 5 models instead of 3. $12 US per biker as opposed to $15 per in the old 3 man kit - so a savings plus the DW shoulderpad sprue. I may pick one of those up, just to have some bikers to sprinkle into my DW KTs, and a Corvus Blackstar (which i expect to be $75 US or more... ugh) then i should have just about everything i need (for now).
Edit - and if there's a new terminator kit I may pick it up as well for the meltafist bits, and the characterful sculpts. If you look in the codex, all the terminators in the group shots are new sculpts (and Branatar).
If they release a Deathwatch Terminator set, that will mean every single flavor of Space Marine (C:SM, CSM, DA, BA, SW, GK, and DW) will have their own exclusive Terminator kit. Is that not a little ridiculous? Especially since, for the most part, Terminators are AWFUL?
I hope we see prices on stuff pretty soon. The Corvus Dropship is a 100% purchase for me, but I still want to know what the damage will be. I wonder if we will see a Deathwatch Drop Pod kit that comes with an upgrade sprue. I can't say that I am too interested in the Watch Master kit. I don't like static pose Marines, I like dynamic poses. This guy looks dumb if he is just standing in combat like a goon. This is the same reason I hate the new Ulrik the Slayer kit too. At any rate, I will probably be in for two Veterans kits and the Corvus Dropship. Not the worst buy-in for an army. It sucks that I am really just after the Frag Cannons, but making a full army isn't too bad.
conker249 wrote: Watch master, Watch captain terminator armor, Corvus Blackstar, Those are the top of my to buy list when they get on pre-order status.
Captain in terminator armor is the same as the one in the start collecting marines box plus a deathwatch upgrade Sprue. So if you wanted to get it sooner you basically can.
I Think what I'm most looking forward to with deathwatch is making a really cool looking fluffy kill team, naming each of its members and giving them a killer backstory.
General Kroll wrote: I Think what I'm most looking forward to with deathwatch is making a really cool looking fluffy kill team, naming each of its members and giving them a killer backstory.
General Kroll wrote: I Think what I'm most looking forward to with deathwatch is making a really cool looking fluffy kill team, naming each of its members and giving them a killer backstory.
General Kroll wrote: I Think what I'm most looking forward to with deathwatch is making a really cool looking fluffy kill team, naming each of its members and giving them a killer backstory.
I fully intend to do the same. Since the model counts are low, this shouldn't be too hard.
General Kroll wrote: I Think what I'm most looking forward to with deathwatch is making a really cool looking fluffy kill team, naming each of its members and giving them a killer backstory.
I fully intend to do the same. Since the model counts are low, this shouldn't be too hard.
Parts of one of my Killteam have already been decided as far as Chapter and Back Story, years ago my friends and I played Deathwatch and Im gonna use our Killteam members (years later) as the new team, its Librarian and a Watch Captain. Our parties Ultramarine is gonna be the Captain, Raven Guard Watch Sergeant and a Storm Warden Librarian.
Ian Sturrock wrote: I think he is just using pretty basic techniques from behavioural economics. Both those kits seem like a 'bargain' because they are cheaper than the existing kits AND they come with a bonus Deathwatch sprue. So it's like you're getting the DW sprue for free! For *less than free*. And that sounds like a fantastic price. So we are all tempted to pay $25 for one plastic miniature.
...I know I am.
Well he's taking small steps but it's still ridiculous price of ONE miniature but as long as GW insists on plastic for characters characters will never be priced sensibly.
Except the modern plastic characters have all been brilliant (bar some missteps in the AOS range) and plastic is miles easier to work with than resin or metal so why shouldn't they?
Quality wise other materials will produce just as good or better. And plastic characters means more expensive. Other metal and price would be like half and GW would still get same profit.
Guess it works if you want to pay closer to 30$ than 10$ for same or worse quality...
Ian Sturrock wrote: I think he is just using pretty basic techniques from behavioural economics. Both those kits seem like a 'bargain' because they are cheaper than the existing kits AND they come with a bonus Deathwatch sprue. So it's like you're getting the DW sprue for free! For *less than free*. And that sounds like a fantastic price. So we are all tempted to pay $25 for one plastic miniature.
...I know I am.
Well he's taking small steps but it's still ridiculous price of ONE miniature but as long as GW insists on plastic for characters characters will never be priced sensibly.
Except the modern plastic characters have all been brilliant (bar some missteps in the AOS range) and plastic is miles easier to work with than resin or metal so why shouldn't they?
I have to agree, the plastic characters are great, and can be easily fount for 25% cheaper than GW sell them for. They are great for conversion work and so so so much easier to work with than both metal and resin.
And you couldn't find 25% cheaper if base model itself was cheaper? Weird idea.
"Okay we give you 25% discount but ONLY on these overpriced character models. These fair priced character models don't get 25% discount".
Last time I checked every store has same discount for every GW model. Therefore you get the 25% discount for non rip of character models as well. Ergo that's no defence.
One plastic model (since I started that tangent...) --
I think GW's plastics have fantastic detail, and standard model plastic is my favourite material to work with. It doesn't bend like Bones but is almost as durable, and it glues and stays glued very easily.
However, I'm used to paying maybe £4 to £6 for a single mini *at the high end*, from somewhere like Hasslefree that just plain makes better minis than GW. I've paid £10 or so for single characters from Mierce, who are also very much on the high end of quality. £15 for one human-sized mini from GW, or even £12, is just too much. For me, anyway. Even though I will likely buy one or both the free DW sprue ones, laughing at myself the whole while.
Back to your regularly scheduled frothing about Deathwing! Personally I think it's really cool that so many people are enthused about the narrative side. It's much easier to forge that narrative when the minis are so characterful, and when you only need a few of them for your army. I do foresee a lot of second-hand Grey Knights minis ending up on eBay soon though. Deathwatch being kind of similar but cooler.
Everyone here is talking about the DW marines.. I still can't get over the fact that I've just bought an entire full size Harlequin army for less than 95£ at Element Games. It's like I don't even care about them being weak when I paid literally less than 33% of retail price.
Ian Sturrock wrote: I think he is just using pretty basic techniques from behavioural economics. Both those kits seem like a 'bargain' because they are cheaper than the existing kits AND they come with a bonus Deathwatch sprue. So it's like you're getting the DW sprue for free! For *less than free*. And that sounds like a fantastic price. So we are all tempted to pay $25 for one plastic miniature.
...I know I am.
Well he's taking small steps but it's still ridiculous price of ONE miniature but as long as GW insists on plastic for characters characters will never be priced sensibly.
Except the modern plastic characters have all been brilliant (bar some missteps in the AOS range) and plastic is miles easier to work with than resin or metal so why shouldn't they?
Quality wise other materials will produce just as good or better. And plastic characters means more expensive. Other metal and price would be like half and GW would still get same profit.
Guess it works if you want to pay closer to 30$ than 10$ for same or worse quality...
Ian Sturrock wrote: I think he is just using pretty basic techniques from behavioural economics. Both those kits seem like a 'bargain' because they are cheaper than the existing kits AND they come with a bonus Deathwatch sprue. So it's like you're getting the DW sprue for free! For *less than free*. And that sounds like a fantastic price. So we are all tempted to pay $25 for one plastic miniature.
...I know I am.
Well he's taking small steps but it's still ridiculous price of ONE miniature but as long as GW insists on plastic for characters characters will never be priced sensibly.
Except the modern plastic characters have all been brilliant (bar some missteps in the AOS range) and plastic is miles easier to work with than resin or metal so why shouldn't they?
I have to agree, the plastic characters are great, and can be easily fount for 25% cheaper than GW sell them for. They are great for conversion work and so so so much easier to work with than both metal and resin.
And you couldn't find 25% cheaper if base model itself was cheaper? Weird idea.
"Okay we give you 25% discount but ONLY on these overpriced character models. These fair priced character models don't get 25% discount".
Last time I checked every store has same discount for every GW model. Therefore you get the 25% discount for non rip of character models as well. Ergo that's no defence.
Last time you checked, did you see any third party retailers selling metal or resin GW products?
Either way, it's by the by really. You've got three people now telling you they prefer to work with plastic, that they think the detail is as good if not better than their resin and metal efforts, and that they don't find the price overly expensive.
If you find it over priced, that's fine. But as demonstrated, plenty of others find it just fine.
Zewrath wrote:Everyone here is talking about the DW marines.. I still can't get over the fact that I've just bought an entire full size Harlequin army for less than 95£ at Element Games. It's like I don't even care about them being weak when I paid literally less than 33% of retail price.
Yeah I'm really stoked about the Harlys. I'm looking forward to the challenge of painting them.
casvalremdeikun wrote:
General Kroll wrote: I Think what I'm most looking forward to with deathwatch is making a really cool looking fluffy kill team, naming each of its members and giving them a killer backstory.
I fully intend to do the same. Since the model counts are low, this shouldn't be too hard.
General Kroll wrote: I Think what I'm most looking forward to with deathwatch is making a really cool looking fluffy kill team, naming each of its members and giving them a killer backstory.
I fully intend to do the same. Since the model counts are low, this shouldn't be too hard.
Parts of one of my Killteam have already been decided as far as Chapter and Back Story, years ago my friends and I played Deathwatch and Im gonna use our Killteam members (years later) as the new team, its Librarian and a Watch Captain. Our parties Ultramarine is gonna be the Captain, Raven Guard Watch Sergeant and a Storm Warden Librarian.
Yup, I think I'm going to pick some random chapters maybe some with conflicting ideals. I'm also looking forward to seeing what I can do with the black shields.
casvalremdeikun wrote: If they release a Deathwatch Terminator set, that will mean every single flavor of Space Marine (C:SM, CSM, DA, BA, SW, GK, and DW) will have their own exclusive Terminator kit. Is that not a little ridiculous? Especially since, for the most part, Terminators are AWFUL?
I hope we see prices on stuff pretty soon. The Corvus Dropship is a 100% purchase for me, but I still want to know what the damage will be. I wonder if we will see a Deathwatch Drop Pod kit that comes with an upgrade sprue. I can't say that I am too interested in the Watch Master kit. I don't like static pose Marines, I like dynamic poses. This guy looks dumb if he is just standing in combat like a goon. This is the same reason I hate the new Ulrik the Slayer kit too. At any rate, I will probably be in for two Veterans kits and the Corvus Dropship. Not the worst buy-in for an army. It sucks that I am really just after the Frag Cannons, but making a full army isn't too bad.
Wow, I absolutely didn't know that BA got their own Terminator box. I was probably busy with school (and also don't pay much attention to BA, to be honest), so I completely missed that.
One of the pictures I liked the most from the first page of this thread is the one that has the three assault cannon terminators, all technically identical in terms of game function, but looking very different, being comprised of an Ultramarine (regular termie box), Deathwing, and Wolf Guard. It just really kind of cements the way Deathwatch is a mixture of many chapters. I've already got enough SM, Deathwing, and Wolf Guard terminators to do a similar unit (plus a converted Branatar with similar weapons), but now I also want to pick up a single BA termie to add to the mix. Off to the bits sellers.
And I agree on the Corvus Blackstar, so far all the pictures have got me pretty happy. Even if there's some glaring flaw that hasn't been pictured yet, there's more than enough good looking flyer there for me to happily buy them. Flaws, at this point, would likely be easily covered up or converted away.
I can't seem to find the post, but does anyone have a comprehensive list of what Chapters can be made from the different Chapter icons included in Deathwatch Veterans kit?
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