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Yah, were doing a battle report with pictures and everything to go with it. Pretty sweet stuff!

Dashofpepper wrote:My Tau answer to a KoS rush like this one, or what you're explaining you saw in your tournament last year would be the meatgrinder. If you don't mech up and have troops on foot (and I'm a hearty gunline advocate), the solution is to use one unit of Kroot (or one unit of firewarriors) as a meatshield. You make a cube with your army in the corner. You surround the cube with a meatshield single squad that is meant to absorb an assault. You spend 2 turns shooting at the onrushing horde, then it smacks into your army and the entire thing gets....a single squad.

Then you spend an whole next turn rapid-firing warriors into the consolidated enemy and everything else you have before they assault again and get...the next layer of the cube. Rinse and repeat.

This isn't a specific list to build against this kind of enemy, just a different use of deployment. If you have a mechanized list, you can do the same thing. Castle up in a corner, deliver long range firepower, protect your firewarriors (drop them on foot for additional firepower) inside the castle, and use flechette toting vehicles as your castle walls. Heck, if you have piranhas - have them jump up the field and melta a trukk and let them get assaulted and killed, and flechette stuff on its way out.

Again, I disagree. I think your tactics sound great in theory- but only that. The list I faced was not quite as extreme of a one-trick-pony as this one- it did have some ranged firepower. It doesn't take much to punch through one squad spread thinly around a "box" containing your entire army. That has to be a LARGE box, and if you're just using one squad, it won't be able to survive any losses and still screen the whole thing.

I've seen a lot of your comments on Tau lists and I think you value theory too much. The same goes for your opinion of suit layouts- from what I've seen you hate plasma rifles on suits, even though it fills a huge hole in the Tau arsenal- marine (especially terminator), monstrous creature, etc save negator. Everything doesn't come down to just the points values- it's how things work together as a unit.

Hence my thinking this whole "box" screened by a single squad is BS. And with that many orks coming, there would be nowhere to go from the "Alamo" of the corner.

I agree that this is how I would deploy against an army like this. I just don't agree that it would be "cake" to deal with it- and no matter how you say otherwise, it won't make it true in a real gaming situation- just in theory. You aren't taking into account anything they would do to counter the strategy of a single squad screening the army (such as shooting a hole in it). Even an extreme list like the one posted here could dismount a squad, or have the stormboyz shoot, or any other variety means to punch through thin kroot (or were you thinking fire warrior?) armor.

In a one-dimensional, the enemy doesn't do anything to respond, theory- your idea works. In a real game it'd be much more messy and complicated, and by NO MEANS easy to deal with a list like this, using the tactic you mention (which is what I would think ALL Tau players would attempt to do, that have any experience at all. It's not a unique thing to deploy in one corner of the zone like this, with tanks screening for the rest).

I also can't believe you're advocating gunline Tau over mechanized. Against most armies, gunline Tau is suicide unless conditions are perfect. Again, on the drawing board it might look good... but I tried gunline for most of a year with hardly any success. Any large terrain blocking a side of the board lets your opponent approach and tear down the "castle" from up close. I thought it looked good on paper but in gaming situations it was just too one-dimensional.

Mechanized Tau has a much better chance, but against a list like this, if it gets first turn... there's certainly not going to be ANYTHING "easy" about dealing with it.

I got my gak tossed by DARK Eldar with this list, battle report inc

Flood of messages incoming.......

RiTides, you might be thinking of someone else. I love plasma rifles on suits! I just don't think they should be paired with anything other than another plasma rifle or a fusion blaster. I'm not talking about theory, but my gaming experiences with Tau. Have you never seen an IG non-mech player deploy in an onion? You don't screen your whole Tau army with a single unit, you have multiple units forming the box; a layer in another layer. If you pick a corner, you only need to defend two sides, and that's not hard at all.

Dashofpepper wrote:Oswitz and I are on vassal, and we're about to roll out!

To bad after turn 3 it was a down word slope for me =\

Hmm... sorry for the tone of my post. It came off too antagonistic... I just think this army would be the nightmare of any gunline... and that that corner deployment would turn out just like the Alamo did in real life... a lot of dead invaders, but everyone inside dead, too... because they're going to break in somewhere, and once they do, there's no escaping...

The Alamo is a poor example seeing as how the fort was undermanned. The example would work better if you doubled the points limit of the opponent.

As a random aside, I think the Mawloc is going to be the death of these kind of castle deployments, and push mech even further into standard mode.

The battle report is up here. Sorry about the pics

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:The battle report is up here. Sorry about the pics

My outlook on the battle, get some anti tank so my nobs with pks aren't doing it all. But he did put me in my place and has made me open my eyes to peoples criticism and when I go about taking it I do so in a manner of understanding. I would love to play against a different race then dark eldar but the game was resolved how it was and I was defeated to a point that I can't even call out excuses, I will remodel my list to what has just happened through this game, and will hope to play the same list once again in the future, till then back to school and trying to sell off this army for school/ my tyranids. Till then..

-Oswitz-

Yeah, Anti-tank is the bane of Ork lists. Space Marines do the same thing, everything in Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Land Raiders, forces you to assault the vehicles to pop them, and then whatever is inside shots you to death and assaults, denying you your furious charge bonus.

Most good Orks lists have quite a lot of fire power, Lootas, Rokkits, etc. Ranged anti-tank is key.

Os- well, a list like that DE that dash fielded did everything and had few weak points. It had mobility, a wave of expendable troops, and the dakka to destroy those Trukks. It was a good try, and hopefully we will see another list from you in order to see what you can do now to beat dash in the future.

Well, I'm glad your views were changed.

I can't believe I wasted my time reading some of this thread.

imweasel wrote:I can't believe I wasted my time reading this thread.

Fix'd.

Dashofpepper wrote:And yet we got to 6 pages, pushing seven. =p

I just like calling peoples' bluffs. Davicus could just as easily play a game against me on Vassal with his promised 3 battleforce boxes as the prize and save a potential $3000

I sent this guy a pm, and instead of replying, he is again trash talking here. Either you are just a prick, or simply a troll.

LOL, I am starting to think your wife married herself to someone with a maturity of a high school boy.

i read the whole thread and watched the Vassal game. i am very happy Oswitz played Vassal, and kudos to you man, most players/people would have just walked away and dismissed the whole thing... you actually saw it through.

Davicus wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:And yet we got to 6 pages, pushing seven. =p

I just like calling peoples' bluffs. Davicus could just as easily play a game against me on Vassal with his promised 3 battleforce boxes as the prize and save a potential $3000

I sent this guy a pm, and instead of replying, he is again trash talking here. Either you are just a prick, or simply a troll.

LOL, I am starting to think your wife married herself to someone with a maturity of a high school boy.

I don't have a message from you, and posting in the fashion you'd like to direct at me isn't helping your cause. Play nice or you'll be removed from Dakka by our overlords.



@Oswitz: Glad you learned something and are willing to switch things up to improve yourself. I've recently done the same with my orks.

Glad to see you played Oswitz, you only get better by losing games.

I just downloaded vassal, and when I find out how to work it I look forward to getting some good games in with my wolves and eldar.

Dashofpepper wrote:I don't have a message from you, and posting in the fashion you'd like to direct at me isn't helping your cause. Play nice or you'll be removed from Dakka by our overlords.

Yeah, with your refusal to reply to my pms definitely didnt help my case. That said, I m pretty used to empty vessels making loud noises on forums. Didnt come as a surprise to me.

Dashofpepper wrote:@Oswitz: Glad you learned something and are willing to switch things up to improve yourself. I've recently done the same with my orks.

Ah, what were some of those lessons you learned? I could use a few for my list a couple of threads down now that I revised it.

EDIT: And I would ignore Davicus. Nothing good will come from being goaded by him.

WarOne wrote:
EDIT: And I would ignore Davicus. Nothing good will come from being goaded by him.

Oh yeah, please do. It's not my honor to speak to scrubs, unless you are gut enough to take up the challenge on Dash's behalf (since obviously he isnt).

WarOne wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:@Oswitz: Glad you learned something and are willing to switch things up to improve yourself. I've recently done the same with my orks.

Ah, what were some of those lessons you learned? I could use a few for my list a couple of threads down now that I revised it.

EDIT: And I would ignore Davicus. Nothing good will come from being goaded by him.

Against Dark eldar in specific I need something to pop his skimmers besides my boyz assaulting it. Before the match I did make up a list with 2 squads of2 kannons with grot krew so I could maybe start testing them out, but we both decided to do with the list i posted on this thread. In all respect I tip my hat off to Dashofpepper because now I know he is a well around good player, and is a relax/chilled guy not some big Dick people think he is in this thread. Maybe I can test out my new tyrandis by the way I need help installing the new update for them anyone can walk me through it?

@Davicus- No and no. And I'm man enough to admit that.

BTW- what was that challenge again? The almost 200 posts since the beginning of this thread makes it daunting to re-discover that challenge.

@Oswitz- kannons could suffice, but again, the list needs moar flexibility. Throwing Orks in Trukks is good, but you always need that Snikrot in the hole/clevery disguised bush to throw at an enemy every now and then.

EDIT: Yes, that would mean the bush hiding behind that Kommando.

DarkHound wrote:

imweasel wrote:I can't believe I wasted my time reading this thread.

Fix'd.

No. I only read part of it. Dash called it on page one.

I should have just stopped there instead of reading part of page 2 before leaving.

Play Nice. We are watching this and will dole out suspensions as necessary. Thanks!

DarkHound wrote:The Alamo is a poor example seeing as how the fort was undermanned. The example would work better if you doubled the points limit of the opponent.

I think it's valid, as they were vastly outnumbered by the attackers. Just as any Tau force would be by an army like this.

Cracking open trukks or raiders for the gooey insides sucks in 5th. I read the entire battle report and all I kept thinking while looking at the pictures
from Vassal was 'the DE are going to DL the trukks... and the orks are going to beat on the sides of the raiders while getting outmaneuvered.' That happened
as expected, but I have to say Dash did extremely well keeping those reavers to form a gun line - delaying contact with the enemy until they were an immobile
ineffectual mass of 6+ armor saves.

The list - it's been hashed out already, Os had a one trick pony that didn't ride well against a real list or a real opponent.

Tactically - the main thing I saw Os could have done different is deploy. His 'tactic' of splitting into 1/3's while awesome in theory and in practice against some lists
sucks against a refused flank. Essentially he got piecemealed and he wasn't even trying to angle the entire list against something he could potentially beat down.

Glad something useful came of this thread.