Swastakowey wrote:
When the Imperial Guard was being released the thread was over 100 pages long. Is interest in the releases getting smaller or is it because if how things are being released?

Funny, people over on B&C are complaining as well. Strange times...

 Timotheus wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
When the Imperial Guard was being released the thread was over 100 pages long. Is interest in the releases getting smaller or is it because if how things are being released?

Funny, people over on B&C are complaining as well. Strange times...

i see what you did there

spartiatis wrote:
Perhaps because we have no rules leaks so far and there are no new - new units released

Indeed. With eldar, skitarii, cult, etc. You had a lot of rules leaks. Here, nada. You can only rumormonger so far with a pic of a chaplain and Libby!

They never manage to do a good job on the TDA librarian. They seem to get worse with every iteration. My favourite is still probably...

Maybe very few rules changed. Just some formations and DTs going into FA and HS slots as well.

Mavnas wrote:
Maybe very few rules changed. Just some formations and DTs going into FA and HS slots as well.

Well we know, at least, that assault marines get eviscerators, and devastator squads get grav cannons

If you can get 4x grav cannon in a devastator squad, and it were 3/5 or 4/6 (the new on in Mechanicus) that would be something neat. Especially since it appears there is a grav amp in the model. Though you would have to buy 4 boxes of devs...

On the bright side, you could have 8 more marines with las canons!

 Smacks wrote:
They never manage to do a good job on the TDA librarian. They seem to get worse with every iteration. My favourite is still probably...

Spoiler:

My favorite as well. I just don't like the bare-headed libby. They'd be smarter than that.

The Emperor protects! Only a heretics wear helmets.

It mainly annoys me that all they seem to give the new one's are staffs (bar the blood angels). It's too much wizard and not enough stimmed up space badass with psychic powers. I know force sword are useless pretty much due to AP3, but still, they look better. And force halberds look totally badass like in that older librarian.

I think it would have been cooler if they had given this Librarian a Force Sword instead of a Force Staff. The PA Librarian has a staff, the BA Librarian has an axe, this once could have had a sword.

Also, if the DA stuff isn't too hard to get off of that Chaplain, I may pick him up. As of right now, my list of stuff to get is just some bikes for Grav-bikers, two Dev Squads to fill up my existing Devs (to make a total of three squads), a couple BA upgrade kits (and...LOTS if they do an Imperial/Crimson Fists one) and the codex. Not an overly expensive codex switch. I was only borrowing the 6E C:SM from a friend, so the new codex doesn't kill me.

 Talys wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Maybe very few rules changed. Just some formations and DTs going into FA and HS slots as well.

Well we know, at least, that assault marines get eviscerators, and devastator squads get grav cannons

If you can get 4x grav cannon in a devastator squad, and it were 3/5 or 4/6 (the new on in Mechanicus) that would be something neat. Especially since it appears there is a grav amp in the model. Though you would have to buy 4 boxes of devs...

On the bright side, you could have 8 more marines with las canons!

Why 4? Hasn't it already been confirmed that you get 2 of each weapon in the Box already?

Locrian wrote:

 Talys wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Maybe very few rules changed. Just some formations and DTs going into FA and HS slots as well.

Well we know, at least, that assault marines get eviscerators, and devastator squads get grav cannons

If you can get 4x grav cannon in a devastator squad, and it were 3/5 or 4/6 (the new on in Mechanicus) that would be something neat. Especially since it appears there is a grav amp in the model. Though you would have to buy 4 boxes of devs...

On the bright side, you could have 8 more marines with las canons!

Why 4? Hasn't it already been confirmed that you get 2 of each weapon in the Box already?

I think Talys is assuming that there is only one Grav Cannon in each box. Hopefully we get two, not one.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Locrian wrote:

 Talys wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
Maybe very few rules changed. Just some formations and DTs going into FA and HS slots as well.

Well we know, at least, that assault marines get eviscerators, and devastator squads get grav cannons

If you can get 4x grav cannon in a devastator squad, and it were 3/5 or 4/6 (the new on in Mechanicus) that would be something neat. Especially since it appears there is a grav amp in the model. Though you would have to buy 4 boxes of devs...

On the bright side, you could have 8 more marines with las canons!

Why 4? Hasn't it already been confirmed that you get 2 of each weapon in the Box already?

I think Talys is assuming that there is only one Grav Cannon in each box. Hopefully we get two, not one.

Ah, I thought someone stated earlier in the thread that the White Dwarf states you get 2 of each weapon in the Dev box. Sure hope so.

Someone confirmed that thee. White dwarf said two of each

Eh, the alpha strike potential seems pretty gnarly for the drop gravs, but the sustainability and durability of the centurions, especially when given the mobility of draigo, a bunker, or something else, means I don't know if Grav Devs will replace centurions as the Murder machine of choice.

Course, two dev squads will put out 24 shots the turn they land... For 370 points, where as a missile Grav centurion squad costs 380.

Leth wrote:Someone confirmed that thee. White dwarf said two of each

Oh okay Thanks. I never saw the bit confirming 2 grav cannons. I wonder what I'll do with all the other devastator bits, after I build 4 grav + 1 sergeant. The legs do look pretty cool.

Crazyterran wrote:Eh, the alpha strike potential seems pretty gnarly for the drop gravs, but the sustainability and durability of the centurions, especially when given the mobility of draigo, a bunker, or something else, means I don't know if Grav Devs will replace centurions as the Murder machine of choice.

Course, two dev squads will put out 24 shots the turn they land... For 370 points, where as a missile Grav centurion squad costs 380.

Yep, I said the same thing. Although we can't quite be sure on the points until we see the list. 5 point per model upgrade!

With the invisible centstar, you get relentless, too. Every round you can pretty much take out multiple other units, it's very durable, can't be hit by blast/templates, and all that kind of thing. But of course Draigo makes it pricier, and if you want assured destruction you might take an extra centurion.

 Talys wrote:

Leth wrote:Someone confirmed that thee. White dwarf said two of each

Oh okay Thanks. I never saw the bit confirming 2 grav cannons. I wonder what I'll do with all the other devastator bits, after I build 4 grav + 1 sergeant. The legs do look pretty cool.

Crazyterran wrote:Eh, the alpha strike potential seems pretty gnarly for the drop gravs, but the sustainability and durability of the centurions, especially when given the mobility of draigo, a bunker, or something else, means I don't know if Grav Devs will replace centurions as the Murder machine of choice.

Course, two dev squads will put out 24 shots the turn they land... For 370 points, where as a missile Grav centurion squad costs 380.

Yep, I said the same thing. Although we can't quite be sure on the points until we see the list. 5 point per model upgrade!

With the invisible centstar, you get relentless, too. Every round you can pretty much take out multiple other units, it's very durable, can't be hit by blast/templates, and all that kind of thing. But of course Draigo makes it pricier, and if you want assured destruction you might take an extra centurion.

I plan to magnetize the dev kit so I have 4 marines ready to go that I can supplement as necessary

 Talys wrote:

Leth wrote:Someone confirmed that thee. White dwarf said two of each

Oh okay Thanks. I never saw the bit confirming 2 grav cannons. I wonder what I'll do with all the other devastator bits, after I build 4 grav + 1 sergeant. The legs do look pretty cool.

Crazyterran wrote:Eh, the alpha strike potential seems pretty gnarly for the drop gravs, but the sustainability and durability of the centurions, especially when given the mobility of draigo, a bunker, or something else, means I don't know if Grav Devs will replace centurions as the Murder machine of choice.

Course, two dev squads will put out 24 shots the turn they land... For 370 points, where as a missile Grav centurion squad costs 380.

Yep, I said the same thing. Although we can't quite be sure on the points until we see the list. 5 point per model upgrade!

With the invisible centstar, you get relentless, too. Every round you can pretty much take out multiple other units, it's very durable, can't be hit by blast/templates, and all that kind of thing. But of course Draigo makes it pricier, and if you want assured destruction you might take an extra centurion.

The Grav cannon and amp is 20pts on a centurion, which is the same as a twin linked lascannon on a centurion. I'm just guessing they will be similarly priced for devastators. Especially since a normal lascannon is currently 20pts on a standard devastator....

Sure, draigo is pricy, but he does so much for you for that price, especially if he is not your warlord. Melee beat stick, gate of infinity bus, wound absorber, deterrent....

@Crazyterran -- I certainly will not dispute that Kaldor Draigo is one of the best characters in the game, and the perfect CentStar companion

Speaking of which, I wonder when Grey Knights will get an upgrade sprue! Those would be really nice bits.

 Talys wrote:
@Crazyterran -- I certainly will not dispute that Kaldor Draigo is one of the best characters in the game, and the perfect CentStar companion

Speaking of which, I wonder when Grey Knights will get an upgrade sprue! Those would be really nice bits.

It's not like they need them! I don't think there's any bits in their range that aren't bling'd up lol.

 Talys wrote:
@Crazyterran -- I certainly will not dispute that Kaldor Draigo is one of the best characters in the game, and the perfect CentStar companion

Speaking of which, I wonder when Grey Knights will get an upgrade sprue! Those would be really nice bits.

I'm currently using smashfether as my cent star companion as I build my Grey Knights. Draigo is just so much better, and you can get a second level 3 librarian to pal around with them (the first being tigurius or seth).

Hopefully they new book points price drops centurions. Clearly over priced, Imo! :p

Edit: don't grey knight boxes already come with a bunch of shoulder pads to upgrade your infantry with the grey knight chapter symbol? An upgrade kit for dreadnoughts, on the other hand...

 Crazyterran wrote:


Edit: don't grey knight boxes already come with a bunch of shoulder pads to upgrade your infantry with the grey knight chapter symbol? An upgrade kit for dreadnoughts, on the other hand...

Sure thing, but no different than wolves or blood Angels -- the upgrade spruce has some new, really unique pieces, some of which might be used to kit bash a custom character out of normal parts, or to create some really spiffy squad leaders!

Unless there's an easy way for Devs to get relentless/s&p, I don't see them being better than Centurions in pods. Probably not even close to how good Skitarii pod alpha is either

jSewell wrote:
Unless there's an easy way for Devs to get relentless/s&p, I don't see them being better than Centurions in pods. Probably not even close to how good Skitarii pod alpha is either

Well, Centurions are a lot more expensive in pointcost and can't fire overwatch, as a mayor difference. And if the rumour that Droppods are ruled to no longer be able to carry Bulky models turns out the be true, no more centurions in drop pods.

 Redemption wrote:

jSewell wrote:
Unless there's an easy way for Devs to get relentless/s&p, I don't see them being better than Centurions in pods. Probably not even close to how good Skitarii pod alpha is either

Well, Centurions are a lot more expensive in pointcost and can't fire overwatch, as a mayor difference. And if the rumour that Droppods are ruled to no longer be able to carry Bulky models turns out the be true, no more centurions in drop pods.

Sounds like malarkey. Until next week, believe no rumours about the contents of the codex.

Blood angel pods came out after space wolf, and they can carrying bulky models. No reason why marine ones wouldn't

 Redemption wrote:

jSewell wrote:
Unless there's an easy way for Devs to get relentless/s&p, I don't see them being better than Centurions in pods. Probably not even close to how good Skitarii pod alpha is either

Well, Centurions are a lot more expensive in pointcost and can't fire overwatch, as a mayor difference. And if the rumour that Droppods are ruled to no longer be able to carry Bulky models turns out the be true, no more centurions in drop pods.

I can't see the drop pod change happening, as it will take drop pods away from space wolves terminators, which removes a fluffy option for space wolves

Aren't Centurions "Very Bulky", not "Bulky"?

I could see Drop Pods not being able to carry more than one "Very Bulky" model.

Having to be within 12" of their target the turn they drop and every turn there after if they decide to move is pretty meh since they'll also be shooting less shots. So more range, Not to mention the chest weapon options on the Cents and better survivability. You'll just have to see what works for you and go with it, but I don't see grab devs being the end-all, especially without relentless or the likes

Sounds like anti marine wish listing.

It would be nice for the "classic" SM player in me to not need all these "unholy alliances" to get a similar Draigo-Cent combo happening straight out of the new codex. It would be nice not to need a named smurf marine librarian to make it work either.
It would be nice to be able to take a "normal" marine codex and stick allies in drop pods if that is the future of mixing and matching.

 Redemption wrote:

jSewell wrote:
Unless there's an easy way for Devs to get relentless/s&p, I don't see them being better than Centurions in pods. Probably not even close to how good Skitarii pod alpha is either

Well, Centurions are a lot more expensive in pointcost and can't fire overwatch, as a mayor difference. And if the rumour that Droppods are ruled to no longer be able to carry Bulky models turns out the be true, no more centurions in drop pods.

This would not fit the fluff or models, since you can fit up to the size of a dreadnought. They even have such a model:


As someone pointed out above a devastator squad is with grav cannons is probably only 10 points cheaper than a grav centurion squad. But anyhow, since when were centurion drop pods the big scary thing? Gate of Infinity and Invisibility using guaranteed psychic powers are your keys to success here. If you drop a centurion squad, they'll likely just get tarpitted and you'll have blown nearly a quarter of your points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In actual news & rumors, BoLS now has an image for the new rules for command tanks!! Ok, this isn't really NEWS, but it's the first time I've seen a nice scan of the actual rules, and we have nothing better to talk about, obviously.



Tactical Authority is pretty cool 12" radius to give 1 unit a really nice buff of your choice every round (like H&R). So is a Grav Cannon with amp, and 2 TL Lascannons, and the Aegis Field. So... worth 400 points (you get both vehicles, I think, for the price)?

I wonder if Sgt. Chronus can be taken as an upgrade for a Land Raider Excelsior? That might be a nice little boost.

Huh, I just saw Rod of Command -- 18" radius for tactical authority for 10 points. There's a no brainer over the combi-plasma, I think.

Makes me think of Staff of Command and Rod of Lordly Might from original AD&D for some reason

 Talys wrote:

spartiatis wrote:
Perhaps because we have no rules leaks so far and there are no new - new units released

Indeed. With eldar, skitarii, cult, etc. You had a lot of rules leaks. Here, nada. You can only rumormonger so far with a pic of a chaplain and Libby!

It is rumored that the new Space Marines will have a lot of 4s in their statline and 3+ saves
Basic troops will come stock with a Str4 AP5 rapid fire weapon and 2 types of grenades!
They will have a rule called "And they shall know no fear" that is similar to fearless but better in every way.

There arent many rumors because we know so much.

 Exergy wrote:

 Talys wrote:

spartiatis wrote:
Perhaps because we have no rules leaks so far and there are no new - new units released

Indeed. With eldar, skitarii, cult, etc. You had a lot of rules leaks. Here, nada. You can only rumormonger so far with a pic of a chaplain and Libby!

It is rumored that the new Space Marines will have a lot of 4s in their statline and 3+ saves
Basic troops will come stock with a Str4 AP5 rapid fire weapon and 2 types of grenades!
They will have a rule called "And they shall know no fear" that is similar to fearless but better in every way.

There arent many rumors because we know so much.

I mean, I get that, but with Cult Mechanicus we were seeing Formation bonuses for quite some time before the codex. Wraithguard getting the Dirty D was rumored for nearly a month before the codex. We didn't even hear much (anything?) about Grav Devs before the WD, which is really strange. No formation bonuses, no characters going to LoW, etc. Just a bit unnatural for a codex this big and noteworthy.

 Crazyterran wrote:


The Grav cannon and amp is 20pts on a centurion, which is the same as a twin linked lascannon on a centurion. I'm just guessing they will be similarly priced for devastators. Especially since a normal lascannon is currently 20pts on a standard devastator....

Well the upgrade cost of a grav cannon and grav amp is 20pts when you are swapping a twinlinked heavy bolter.
That is equal in power to a twinlinked lascannon.

One would assume that if a grav cannon+amp is worth the same as a TWINLINKED lascannon that it would be more expensive than a regular lascannon.
Also one would assume that if a grav cannon+amp is 20points better than a twinlinked heavy bolter it would be 25-30 points better than a regular bolter.

 Exergy wrote:

It is rumored that the new Space Marines will have a lot of 4s in their statline and 3+ saves
Basic troops will come stock with a Str4 AP5 rapid fire weapon and 2 types of grenades!
They will have a rule called "And they shall know no fear" that is similar to fearless but better in every way.

There arent many rumors because we know so much.

It is rumored that the new Space marines will all have 2++. Bolters will become S8 AP2 48" Ignore Cover weapons!

"And they shall know no fear" will mean the other guys will gak their pants!

If there is any equations in place to reflect the value of upgrades. Same studio gives out Ion Accelerators for Melta Bomb prices on occasion.

The rumor I heard is the price of the book got a much needed boost, but the lifespan got nerfed.

Rumor has it as well that all SM armor is considered the pink fuzzy bunny suit and will be ridiculed by their peers unless they get the SM armor upgrade for a mere $80 to kit-out 2 models.

This new plastic Librarian, will it be a Dark Angels exclusive or a vanilla one?

Since (I believe) all the start of turn stuff happens in the order the active player chooses, could you roll for reserves and then choose to use Coordinate Reinforcements if needed?

Crimson Devil wrote:The rumor I heard is the price of the book got a much needed boost, but the lifespan got nerfed.

Nicely done, sir!

BrookM wrote:This new plastic Librarian, will it be a Dark Angels exclusive or a vanilla one?

Generic. There's no Chapter specific detail on him that isn't painted on.

What about price?
Im assuming it will be the same as eldar

Whelp, I have the new White Dwarf. All prices USD except as specified

Space Marines Devastator Squad $46 (CAD $55, GBP 28 AU $78)
SM & DA Battleforce $100
BA Battleforce $95
Codex: Space Marines $58 (CAD $70 GBP 35 AU $90 )
Codex: SM Limited Edition (7 to choose from) $165
Datacards: Space marines $12.50



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Other interesting info:

- Devastator pictures look super duper!
- Devastator: "there are two each of the following: lascannons, multimeltas, heavy bolters, plasma cannons, missile launchters and, new to the Devastators, grav-cannons complete with underslung grav amps"
- Devastator: For the squad sergeant, there are four assembly options for his combi-weapon, a power sword, thunder hammer, storm bolter, chainsword, lightning claw, grav pistol, plasma pistole, pbolt pistol, bolter, power fist (pointing at the enemy of course), bionic hand (also pointing), and a return of the classic-looking weapon, the power axe.

- Optional extras for dev: sergeant's armored torso, Mk VIII torso with raised gorget, armorium cherub (this guy looks pretty sweet!), pair of servo skulls

- The book cover reads:
CODEX ADEPTUS ASTARTES
SPACE MARINES
- Codex is 200 pages
- Company markings for White Scars, yay
- Salamanders Chapter Structure
- Gladius Strike Force Detachment
- 12 formations

About that Gladius Strike force....
- Field as a Battle Dei-company lead by a Captain or a Chaplain
- Commander will create his Gladius Strike force by selecting additional units available to him
- He may "request a unit of veterans to teleport to the heart of the enemy's position" or "call upon an Armored Task Force of Vindicators and Thunderfire Cannons to lay siege to an enemy fortification."
- "Not only does this give you the massive flexibility when creating your Space Marine army, it is also great fun creating a story to go with it."

- White Dwarf contains Salamanders Tactical Objectives, woot. Check this one: "Score 1 VP at the end of your turn, if during your turn you completely destroyed an enemy vehicle with a melta weapon." How easy is that?

Or how about, "Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if, during your turn, you completely destroyed an enemy unit whilst it was within 6" of any Salamanders units. If you completely destroyed 3 or more enmy units whilst they were within 6" of any Salamanders units, score D3 VP instead".

This one is pretty easy too -- "Score 1 VP at the end of your turn, if during your turn, one or more of your units made a successful charge and suffered no casualties from Overwatch".

Hints for next week...

- HARNESSING THE EMPYREAN
- THEATRE OF WAR
- 'EAVY METAL


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, and that "The age of sigmar is coming" thing is the back cover, and the "These were the end times..." is the last printed page of the magazine (facing the inside back cover), so I highly doubt this is just a board game.

So we get a Decurion, then. Terrifying.

Yup, that's what the Gladius Detachment is, I'm sure. I could have sworn I typed in (Decurion?) but I guess not.

Oh yes, and Rules Teasers -- COMBAT DOCTRINES!! We are all Skitarri.

Tactical Doctrine: Affected models can re-roll to-hit rolls of 1 in the shooting and Assault phases of this turn. Affected Tactical Squads, including any affected that have joined those squads can instead re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the Shooting and Assault phases of this turn.

Combact Doctrines: Several special rules allow units or Formations to enact one or more Compact Doctorines. Whenever a rule allows this , it will note which units are affected, and how many times per game the Doctrine(s) can be enacted. These are cumulative, so if your army has 2 rules that allow it to enact the Tactical Doctrine ponce per game, you can enact it twice per game. You can enact a single available Combat Doctrine at the start of each of your turns.

Neat huh? The stacking thing is cool too.

 Colpicklejar wrote:
So we get a Decurion, then. Terrifying.

Your surprised? Literally every book from now on will have that composition I'm sure. This one will force us to take a command, two tac squads, some scouts, assault marines, devs and probable an attack bike or some such crap as a start. All upgrades are free, choose to pass fail moral prefered enemy everything....

 Talys wrote:

Hints for next week...

- HARNESSING THE EMPYREAN
- THEATRE OF WAR
- 'EAVY METAL

Quite odd. The german one lists "-Space Marines" as second hint.

 Talys wrote:
Yup, that's what the Gladius Detachment is, I'm sure. I could have sworn I typed in (Decurion?) but I guess not.

Oh yes, and Rules Teasers -- COMBAT DOCTRINES!! We are all Skitarri.

Tactical Doctrine: Affected models can re-roll to-hit rolls of 1 in the shooting and Assault phases of this turn. Affected Tactical Squads, including any affected that have joined those squads can instead re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the Shooting and Assault phases of this turn.

Combact Doctrines: Several special rules allow units or Formations to enact one or more Compact Doctorines. Whenever a rule allows this , it will note which units are affected, and how many times per game the Doctrine(s) can be enacted. These are cumulative, so if your army has 2 rules that allow it to enact the Tactical Doctrine ponce per game, you can enact it twice per game. You can enact a single available Combat Doctrine at the start of each of your turns.

Neat huh? The stacking thing is cool too.

Too much book keeping, take the mechanicus war congregation for example, SO MANY fething rules and one time things. I don't mind passive buffs (even though its getting extreme when they are free) but the one time or 2 time use thing gets rediculous for your opponent to keep sorted.

What are the contents of the new da battle company box?

Popobates wrote:
What are the contents of the new da battle company box?

less then dark vengeance lol

The devastator box sounds amazing, mostly for all the sergeant kit! POWER AXE!

The Dev box actually seems like a pretty good deal. All those weapons will make for some pretty interesting squad capabilities.

Whilst I know it's just for modelling purposes, but if grav amps are capable of being underslung on the cannons, surely centurions are capable of having twin linked grav cannons and amps, fluff wise that is. Obviously won't happen model or rule wise. Little things like that make weird inconsistencies. Personally, I think Dev's would have been okay without grav amps, for a significantly reduced price of the grav cannon.

Come to think of it, why can't the command land raider have twin linked grav cannons with underslung grav amps?

Popobates wrote:
What are the contents of the new da battle company box?

The battle boxes look pretty weak, to be honest.

- SM Battleforce: Space Marine Captain, Tactical Squad ($40), Dreadnought ($46).
- BA Battleforce: BA Captain, Tactical Squad ($43), Furioso Dreadnought ($46)
- DA Battleforce: Ravenwing Command ($50), Land Speeder -- NOT Vengeance ($30), Attack Bike ($27)


The $100 SM box contents are $86 + Captain, meaning you're paying for $14 for the Captain.
The $95 BA box comes to $89 + Captain, meaning the BA Captain is $6.
The $100 DA box comes to $107, so you save $7, yippee.

The biggest issue is just that they aren't super-desirable contents. Especially with the new upgrade frame, you don't even need the Captains anymore. So you're stuck with (another?) dreadnought. I dunno if there are that many DA players who don't already have a Ravenwing command squad, either. I guess for new players.

It's nothing like the Necron battleforce today, or the value of the old Eldar battleforce, back when wave serpents were really good. If it had been me,

SM battleforce would have been Tactical Squad, Assault Squad, Devastator Squad $100. BA battleforce - BA Tactical, Assault, Devastator $100. Dunno what I would do for DA, because who knows about the new codex.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Whilst I know it's just for modelling purposes, but if grav amps are capable of being underslung on the cannons, surely centurions are capable of having twin linked grav cannons and amps, fluff wise that is. Obviously won't happen model or rule wise. Little things like that make weird inconsistencies. Personally, I think Dev's would have been okay without grav amps, for a significantly reduced price of the grav cannon.

Come to think of it, why can't the command land raider have twin linked grav cannons with underslung grav amps?

Power drain issues?

Fluff wise its possible that trying to run two grav cannons and the suit it self on a centurion might be too much.

So... combat doctrines are literally the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics?

I wonder what they'll have instead... or if Chapter Tactics are being removed.

Man, if those are the options for dev sgt, I might pick that up instead of vanguard vets.

Hey talys

Any chance that you can tell what the raven guard limited edition codex looks like?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
So... combat doctrines are literally the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics?

I wonder what they'll have instead... or if Chapter Tactics are being removed.

Edit -- the text actually reads:

Seven Chapter Tactics cards provide special rules for those Codex-following (or mostly Codex-following) members of the First Founding and their Successors, while Combat Doctrines allow affected squads to adopt Tactical, Assault or Devastator Doctrines, each presented on a large-format card.

Most eagerly awaited of all are the Space Marines' very own Tactical Objectives. Unique objectives like Death from Above and Lightning Strike reward characteristic Space marine methods of planetstrike and lightning warfare, adding a new dimension to the battlefield plans of the tactically-versatile Space Marines and their commanders everywhere.

Not a fan of the aspects of the game that make me do book keeping during the game. I just want to move toy soldiers around and make "pew pew" noises, not have to jot down every single time I or the other play scored VP points in turn 3 for doing x.

So if I'm reading this right, Combat Doctrines are in addition to Chapter Tactics?
Wonder what Ultra's will have, then (for their chapter tactics).

Also 7 Chapter Tactics... well it looks like GW haven't completely destroyed BT yet, though the 'for codex-following' part is a bit worrying... GW may have made the BT more codex-compliant fluff-wise.

General Hobbs wrote:


Not a fan of the aspects of the game that make me do book keeping during the game. I just want to move toy soldiers around and make "pew pew" noises, not have to jot down every single time I or the other play scored VP points in turn 3 for doing x.

So don't play maelstrom? Skip the rules you don't like? If you're just going pew pew, what do the details matter?

About fething time we have a rules preview!

I like the doctrine idea as it gives more reason to actually use Tacticals, but no double Special Weapons will always make them inferior to Bikers, so we'll see.
Got any pics Talys?

So...the way I am understanding it is that the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics have been moved to an armywide ability available to all Chapters. Chapter Tactics will be IN ADDITION to these Combat Doctrines. If this is the case, that is pretty cool.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So...the way I am understanding it is that the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics have been moved to an armywide ability available to all Chapters. Chapter Tactics will be IN ADDITION to these Combat Doctrines. If this is the case, that is pretty cool.

I believe the rumor is that (at least part of it) will be the ability to choose to fail morale checks, like the 5th Edition Codex Combat Tactics.

Which would be so amazing. Being able to get away from things, and then turn around and rapid fire them? So good.

Yep, and book keeping is pretty easy. I usually just make a set of cards and then use them up and flip them over, etc. It really helps me remember what to use and less likely to forget....I need to make a start of phase card as well.....

most hobby stores sell cheap wooden bases (of various sizes...I use 40mm) that you can paint and add details (such as decals) to remind you of what actions you have taken. just keep a stack near your board edge, when used...remove or just flip. Easy.

 Talys wrote:
Dunno what I would do for DA, because who knows about the new codex.

Give us the old battle force with updated models. The attack bike is pretty useless unless it can now be purchased for Ravenwing Knights or if they allow Assault Bike squads. The previous box was much better with the 6 bikes, land speeder, attack bike, and upgrade sprue. Big savings on it too.

 Whumbachumba wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Dunno what I would do for DA, because who knows about the new codex.

Give us the old battle force with updated models. The attack bike is pretty useless unless it can now be purchased for Ravenwing Knights or if they allow Assault Bike squads. The previous box was much better with the 6 bikes, land speeder, attack bike, and upgrade sprue. Big savings on it too.

The old battleforce is the best way to get bikes for ANY Space Marine army. 6-7 bikes (build the attack bike as just another bike) and a speeder for kicks. I should have bought one when I had the chance. It is great for army building a bikes army.

Im interested in what the salamanders were given. anyone have any info?

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Im interested in what the salamanders were given. anyone have any info?

The lack of leaks this time around is infuriating! LOL.

The only thing we see are the Salamanders Tactical objectives in the white dwarf.

Grarg wrote:
Hey talys

Any chance that you can tell what the raven guard limited edition codex looks like?

Now that it seems more and more likely GW will do a constant 1-2 year churn on codexes and rulebooks, people still think of purchasing "limited editon" books for triple the price? What's the thought process behind that? Do you expect it to become a collector's item? Wouldn't you rather have an extra $100 worth of models?

A rulebook is a utilitarian item. Having a limited edition codex is sorta like having hand-painted toilet paper. When I buy a rulebook, I'm just concerned about the content. When I buy toilet paper, I'm mainly concerned about not having my hands covered in feces.

Same reason someone buys digital, or collects magic cards, or prefers hardback. Some people spend 3 or 4 times the price of the models to have them painted by other people. Some people have every single book that has come out since second edition on their wall. If I was one of them I would have no problem getting the limited edition, it looks like a joy to read and you get all those cool little things hat everyone wants but few will buy.

If they enjoy having it then what does it matter? I know people where cost is not really a consideration it's "do I want it or not". If they want it or they think they will enjoy it, they buy it. That's all that matters.

Grarg wrote:
Hey talys

Any chance that you can tell what the raven guard limited edition codex looks like?

Hey Grarg! There is a picture of the Raven Guard slipcase on the spread on P.13, but the photography is hard to make out, because it's an all-grey box. There's a tactical marine on the front (you can see the shoulder marking), and he looks to be in some sort of battle. The description reads, "The Raven Guard Codex is monochrome save for the red eye lenses of the Space Marines lurking in the dark". All of the covers look really nice.

The extra stuff for LE are:
- 36 Tacitcal Objective cards
- 6 metal objective markers
- 8 large format cards showcasing the 8 marks of power armor
- full color guide to the colors and insignia of the 190 space marine successor chapters

Looks like you actually get a bunch of unique stuff.

 the_Armyman wrote:

Now that it seems more and more likely GW will do a constant 1-2 year churn on codexes and rulebooks, people still think of purchasing "limited editon" books for triple the price? What's the thought process behind that? Do you expect it to become a collector's item? Wouldn't you rather have an extra $100 worth of models?

A rulebook is a utilitarian item. Having a limited edition codex is sorta like having hand-painted toilet paper. When I buy a rulebook, I'm just concerned about the content. When I buy toilet paper, I'm mainly concerned about not having my hands covered in feces.

First of all, I didn't buy the LE. But, here's my answer as to why I would buy one, and also, why I didn't buy this one.

To me, it's not just utilitarian. Why would I buy a book in hardcover instead of softcover, if it's past the new release period? It's the same thing -- these are nice things, one is nicer, and I'd rather have the nicer one. It looks nice on my gaming shelf today, and I'll use it a ton before it's retired. Then, in 2 years, it will look nice in my collection of old rulebooks, which I proudly display in my nerdy library filled with a few hundred scifi books and a few hundred RPG and gaming sourcebooks and a few hundred (legally purchased) Sci-Fi DVDs and Blu-Rays. I like my Scifi, what can I say.

For me, I am not just concerned about the content. I collect these things, and I will even sometimes go back and lovingly open up my Diety & Demigods or a pop open a Player's Handbook when I can't remember what level a spell was (quick, Polymorph Other, what level!!) or maybe spend a couple of evenings to read a hardcover Isaac Asimov or Frank Herbert novel.

Now, why did I NOT buy the LE? Here are all the reasons:

- If it came out ONE DAY earlier, it would be a no brainer. I'd be lined up to hit the buy button.
- Instead, my FLGS, which I like to support, wasn't sure if it was web order or local. And certainly don't want to get it one day later!!
- I would have bought it anyhow, if there were a Blood Angels cover. It's my favorite Space Marine chapter, and yeah, I know, they got their own book, but I don't care I play my BA models as a successor vanilla chapter all the time. Or gimme another cover with a red space marine.

Incidentally, I have never bought an LE book. I think the closest I came to it other than this one, was Tau, and that would have been an impulse purchase because it was sitting on the store shelf. Almost CWE too, but store couldn't guarantee when it would arrive, and I didn't want it late. There ya go

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
So if I'm reading this right, Combat Doctrines are in addition to Chapter Tactics?
Wonder what Ultra's will have, then (for their chapter tactics).

Also 7 Chapter Tactics... well it looks like GW haven't completely destroyed BT yet, though the 'for codex-following' part is a bit worrying... GW may have made the BT more codex-compliant fluff-wise.

The quote says " or mostly Codex following" - which covers Black Templars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels to be honest. All of them have a couple of unusual/non codex "special" units but that's going to be true or the majority of Chapters in the Imperium of Man.

So the "Seven" are? Ultramarines, White Scars, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Black Templars and?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
So if I'm reading this right, Combat Doctrines are in addition to Chapter Tactics?
Wonder what Ultra's will have, then (for their chapter tactics).

Also 7 Chapter Tactics... well it looks like GW haven't completely destroyed BT yet, though the 'for codex-following' part is a bit worrying... GW may have made the BT more codex-compliant fluff-wise.

The quote says " or mostly Codex following" - which covers Black Templars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels to be honest. All of them have a couple of unusual/non codex "special" units but that's going to be true or the majority of Chapters in the Imperium of Man.

So the "Seven" are? Ultramarines, White Scars, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Black Templars and?

Iron Hands.

Iron Hands. You're missing Iron Hands

EDIT:

Actually, Grarg, here you go:

Top row - Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard
Bottom Row - Iron Hands, Salamanders, Successor Chapters, White Scars



If I did a no-no snapping a pic of that spread, moderator please delete. Of all the things to show off though, I doubt a 2page spread on LE codex is something GW would mind much

Looks like this Limited Edition is more or less the same as the last.

....Aside from of course the rainbow of covers.

So are Chapter Tactics looking to be the same so far?

Also any word on Tactical Marine changes? I'd really like to use them over Bikers please...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So are Chapter Tactics looking to be the same so far?

Also any word on Tactical Marine changes? I'd really like to use them over Bikers please...

Based on the datacard text (scroll up to top of this page), I think there are Combat Doctrines (the 3 mentioned sound the same as the current ultramarine CT) which are unlocked by chapter tactics. However, it looks like other things can unlock the combat doctrines too, and that it stacks -- so you could get tactical doctrine x 2 or assault x 2 for instance. This would actually be pretty kickass for your primary detachment!

Also, Grav Cannon + Grav Amp is probably on the Heavy Weapons list -- just guessing by the format of GW lists, it will any 4 devastators can exchange heavy bolter for an item on the heavy weapons list. This means that the tactical squad has a decent chance of getting access to 1 grav cannon for a 10 man squad, that you'd probably combat squad out. That would be kinda cool too.

Imagine if you can reuse doctrines many times. That would give Devastators Relentless!! Or, allow all tactical marines to always reroll failed to hits; this could be pretty neat.

If the Gladius Strike Force is, in fact, analogous to the Decurion Detachment for Space Marines, I hope it will be able to be converted over to the Blood Angels pretty easily. It seems like it would be easy enough. Probably would have some mandatory Death Company. That or I hope that the Gladius Strike Force is actually compatible with the Blood Angels units somehow.

I'm more surprised there's no complaining that a gladius strike force sounds to ultramarine for people.

And sure, you can use the gladius strike force as a blood angel... You just have to leave all the blood angel things behind, pick up a codex: space marines, and pick which codex chapter tactic you like!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the Gladius Strike Force is, in fact, analogous to the Decurion Detachment for Space Marines, I hope it will be able to be converted over to the Blood Angels pretty easily. It seems like it would be easy enough. Probably would have some mandatory Death Company. That or I hope that the Gladius Strike Force is actually compatible with the Blood Angels units somehow.

I integrate my BA into the basic codex all the time. It gives me 4 options:

Option #1 -- I play my BA as a codex successor chapter all the time; nobody ever has a problem with it. Basically, I can use my tacticals, assault, devastator, vehicles, and drop pods. I can't use Dante, furiosos, priest, sanguinary guard, or death company. Which really isn't a huge deal.

Option #2 -- I mix and match by taking part of the force as a successor chapter, and the other part as an allied detachment with Dante, as the HQ. Keep in mind that this only works because on my marines, because all of my squads are all clearly identifiable by sculpted shoulderpads (mostly raided from DC and Sanguinary boxes). So I can say, the ones with the sculpted gold cups are the BA faction, for instance.

Option #3 -- I play them as straight BA!

Option #4 -- Play them with the Flesh Tearers formation as a taxi service! Ok, to be honest, I haven't done this yet. But I lent my BA models to a buddy to play them against me (playing my Eldar), paired with his shiny new Skitarii, so that kinda counts?

Since my lists are way more themed than "I MUST WIN", nobody ever minds. It also doesn't hurt that my minis look pretty decent on the table, and the two chapters I started 40k with since the 80s was Blood Angels and Grey Knights, which BOTH split off from the main rules. And although I have a few ultramarines painted, there's no way I want to go back and do EVERYTHING again, just to be blue! Besides, ever since DC, Sanguinary and now BA Tactical, the bits are just so much better than vanilla.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm more surprised there's no complaining that a gladius strike force sounds to ultramarine for people.

And sure, you can use the gladius strike force as a blood angel... You just have to leave all the blood angel things behind, pick up a codex: space marines, and pick which codex chapter tactic you like!

Like Strikeforce Ultra didn't? Yeah, I play BA for all of their cool toys, so I am not leaving my DC, Sang Guard, Furiosos and etc. behind. I will make some custom rules for a Baal Strike Force variant of the Gladius Strike Force. Hell, I would buy the gak out of a White Dwarf that would contain an official Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves variant of the Gladius Strike Force.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm more surprised there's no complaining that a gladius strike force sounds to ultramarine for people.

And sure, you can use the gladius strike force as a blood angel... You just have to leave all the blood angel things behind, pick up a codex: space marines, and pick which codex chapter tactic you like!

Like Strikeforce Ultra didn't? Yeah, I play BA for all of their cool toys, so I am not leaving my DC, Sang Guard, Furiosos and etc. behind. I will make some custom rules for a Baal Strike Force variant of the Gladius Strike Force. Hell, I would buy the gak out of a White Dwarf that would contain an official Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves variant of the Gladius Strike Force.

And the reasoning for people to play the standard marine codex then would be?!?!

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm more surprised there's no complaining that a gladius strike force sounds to ultramarine for people.

And sure, you can use the gladius strike force as a blood angel... You just have to leave all the blood angel things behind, pick up a codex: space marines, and pick which codex chapter tactic you like!

Like Strikeforce Ultra didn't? Yeah, I play BA for all of their cool toys, so I am not leaving my DC, Sang Guard, Furiosos and etc. behind. I will make some custom rules for a Baal Strike Force variant of the Gladius Strike Force. Hell, I would buy the gak out of a White Dwarf that would contain an official Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves variant of the Gladius Strike Force.

And the reasoning for people to play the standard marine codex then would be?!?!

I am talking for variants of the Decurion-like detachment for the non-C:SM chapters. The C:SM chapters would have all of their goodies like the Centurions, Thunderfire Cannons, Land Speeder Storms, etc. These units would be unusable by other chapters. There would just be a variation of the Gladius Strike Force for Blood Angels(Baal Strike Force), Dark Angels, and Space Wolves. It would not invalidate the C:SM at all. And it would not invalidate the detachments from the individual codices either, since they would offer a more free-form way to make the army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Looks like Eviscerators cost 25 pts, but you give up your BP and Chainsword to get them. Also, only 1-2 per 5-10. No special weapons besides the Flamer, so BA Assault Squads still have the edge.

I can have two flamers and two eviscerators? That's pretty awesome. Costs 215 for two flamers, two eviscerators, and a power weapon for the sergeant. Ten man strong, of course.
225 if you make the sergeant a veteran. Two hidden power fists aren't bad...

As for making your own blood angel strike force... If your group is fine with you making up your own rules, do what you want. I wouldn't play against it, but I'm not in your group.

Edit: wait, the assault marines cost as much as tacticals now? Maybe tacticals a are getting a price drop...

Edit 2: just saw you have to pay for the jump packs. Slightly less awesome. i was seriously considering taking assault marines for a minute...

Quite disappointing ..
Still no meltaguns and it costs more to take them without jump packs and pay for the transport..
The only good thing is that eviscerators are hidden

I'd almost rather throw them in a pod with the hidden eviscerators than run them up with jump packs. Costs as much as a land raider, though. 245 on jet packs for my previously mentioned squad, 250 with a pod...

 Crazyterran wrote:
I can have two flamers and two eviscerators? That's pretty awesome. Costs 215 for two flamers, two eviscerators, and a power weapon for the sergeant. Ten man strong, of course.
225 if you make the sergeant a veteran. Two hidden power fists aren't bad...

As for making your own blood angel strike force... If your group is fine with you making up your own rules, do what you want. I wouldn't play against it, but I'm not in your group.

Edit: wait, the assault marines cost as much as tacticals now? Maybe tacticals a are getting a price drop...

Edit 2: just saw you have to pay for the jump packs. Slightly less awesome. i was seriously considering taking assault marines for a minute...

Unfortunately tacs do not seem to get a price drop.
Assault are listed 14 pts per model as they have no jump pack and you pay extra 3 pts for each.
Same costs as the old codex (bar the free transport)

Combat-squadding 10-man unit in a pod, with 2 flamers, 1 combi-melta + fist or claw, and 2 eviscerators, gets you some pretty versatile, hard-hitting stuff, especially if you can make the whole thing obsec. Expensive, mind.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Combat-squadding 10-man unit in a pod, with 2 flamers, 1 combi-melta + fist or claw, and 2 eviscerators, gets you some pretty versatile, hard-hitting stuff, especially if you can make the whole thing obsec. Expensive, mind.

No combi melta, since the sergeant can only take items from the melee weapons list.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Combat-squadding 10-man unit in a pod, with 2 flamers, 1 combi-melta + fist or claw, and 2 eviscerators, gets you some pretty versatile, hard-hitting stuff, especially if you can make the whole thing obsec. Expensive, mind.

No combi melta, since the sergeant can only take items from the melee weapons list.

Another thing the BA Assault Squads have over C:SM Assault Squads. Not much reason to take these guys over a squad of bikes, that's for sure.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Combat-squadding 10-man unit in a pod, with 2 flamers, 1 combi-melta + fist or claw, and 2 eviscerators, gets you some pretty versatile, hard-hitting stuff, especially if you can make the whole thing obsec. Expensive, mind.

No combi melta, since the sergeant can only take items from the melee weapons list.

Another thing the BA Assault Squads have over C:SM Assault Squads.

Right... And you can take them in a gladius strike-

Oh wait.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Combat-squadding 10-man unit in a pod, with 2 flamers, 1 combi-melta + fist or claw, and 2 eviscerators, gets you some pretty versatile, hard-hitting stuff, especially if you can make the whole thing obsec. Expensive, mind.

No combi melta, since the sergeant can only take items from the melee weapons list.

Another thing the BA Assault Squads have over C:SM Assault Squads.

Right... And you can take them in a gladius strike-

Oh wait.

Meh, for all we know, you HAVE to take a squad of Assault Marines in the GSF. No thanks, you can keep your strictly inferior version of the Assault Squads, my C:SM FA slots will be filled with bikes.

Whoa, they increased the points cost. They're 70 points now (down from 85) but they lost jump packs / free drop pod.

If you want a drop pod now, it will cost you 70 + pod (assuming 35) = 105. Or back to 85 points with packs.

Edit: oh, I was on the wrong page, just saw this refreshing the prev. page :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Meh, for all we know, you HAVE to take a squad of Assault Marines in the GSF. No thanks, you can keep your strictly inferior version of the Assault Squads, my C:SM FA slots will be filled with bikes.

I doubt that. It says GSF is very versatile, and Decurion-style force has been thus far quite flexible in that respect. I must agree though, these ASM suck. Use the models to make pretty Blood Angels ASM, which can get tri melta and a pod for cheaper, now. Use Eviscerator for uhhh.... a kitbash Gabriel Seth

The kit itself is quite nice, I think, the rules to back them up are what suck. It comes with enough parts for every option the squad has, and that is pretty unique among GW products. If I didn't already have more Assault Squads than I need, I would probably get one.

Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if I saw the Eviscerator in the Melee Weapons list, allowing more than just one random Assault Squad marine to take one.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The kit itself is quite nice, I think, the rules to back them up are what suck. It comes with enough parts for every option the squad has, and that is pretty unique among GW products. If I didn't already have more Assault Squads than I need, I would probably get one.

Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if I saw the Eviscerator in the Melee Weapons list, allowing more than just one random Assault Squad marine to take one.

Yes, the kit is really nice. I'm ordering 2, because I want the posable legs and scenic bases. Trading 20 standard legs (from old devastator/assault/command kits) for 10 extra posable legs, too!

However, as you say, the rules to back them up are sucky. I can see using the kit to augment BA ASM (mix it up with DC kit), but vanilla ASM? Nah. Let's see what they do to bikes...

Eviscerator as 25 points (same as a power fist) makes a lot of sense, as it gains armor-bane but is two handed, and for basic assault marines, replaces their bolt pistol as well.

At least the Devastator kit comes with a power axe to throw on the assault marines. Still no power maul or spear models though. What's up with that?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Combat-squadding 10-man unit in a pod, with 2 flamers, 1 combi-melta + fist or claw, and 2 eviscerators, gets you some pretty versatile, hard-hitting stuff, especially if you can make the whole thing obsec. Expensive, mind.

No combi melta, since the sergeant can only take items from the melee weapons list.

Another thing the BA Assault Squads have over C:SM Assault Squads.

Right... And you can take them in a gladius strike-

Oh wait.

Meh, for all we know, you HAVE to take a squad of Assault Marines in the GSF. No thanks, you can keep your strictly inferior version of the Assault Squads, my C:SM FA slots will be filled with bikes.

For all we know, the base gladius detachment will be 1 captain or chaplain, 0-1 command squad, 3-6 tactical squad, 1-2 assault/bike squad/assault centurion cohort, 1-2 devastator/devastator centurion cohort. Since those are all possible things In a codex adherent Demi battle company. Maybe they'll throw a dreadnought in as a requirement since those too are fluffy in a company.

All we know so far is that it requires a captain or chaplain. If the bonuses aren't worth the initial investment, I imagine people will still use CADs for their tournament lists.

I think it will be like a warhost, to be honest. Probably x number of core, but require a command unit. I am going to guess most HQ will do the trick (ie a named character can replace the captain).

 Talys wrote:
I think it will be like a warhost, to be honest. Probably x number of core, but require a command unit. I am going to guess most HQ will do the trick (ie a named character can replace the captain).

Hopefully it has a battle/tactical reserve(bikes)/scout Demi-companies you can choose from. If that's the case, it'll be pretty great.

If you are stuck taking tactical, assault and devastator squads... Well, we'll see.

The LE Salamanders cover doesn't look very exciting compared with the old one.

Thankfully my gaming buds and I have stuck with 6th ed 40k, so my extremely expensive book is still relevant to me

I don't see why I would take ASM now, granted not many used them before. Only if they were in the gladius company formation I guess. Bikes are still the way to go.

 Slinky wrote:
The LE Salamanders cover doesn't look very exciting compared with the old one.

Thankfully my gaming buds and I have stuck with 6th ed 40k, so my extremely expensive book is still relevant to me

None of them do. The art for the chapter specific LE Codexes last time was awesome, these are a step down imo.

Grav/Plas pistols are still 15ppm. Sigh. Lost opportunity.

While the loss of the free transport swap for JP is a little sad, it’s not totally unexpected. For a 5 man squad, you were swapping 15 points of packs for a 35 point transport. But having them with the option to be lower points but packsless will be nice if you want to put them in a non-dedicated transport.

Not sure how I feel about the evisorator. Points are about what I expected. In the hands of a basic assault marine, it’s a melta bomb with an extra attack on the charge. For 5 times the price. It has a little more use against non-vehilce targets, but if you are throwing your AMs at something that needs a powerfist, you are probably desperately tossing them into a meat grinder. In the hands of a vet sarge with more attacks, or a character who is resilient with multiple attacks, I can see it being a better investment. But on a 1A model, even “hidden” I think I’ll pass.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Where does that picture come from? I mean, not BolS, I know that, but I mean, it has the rules for ASM in English, and then just below the rules for ASM in French (except with GW ultra-crappy translation policy that sucks ball and is laughably terribly bad and horrible and I despise it so much). It does not look like it comes from a codex, or even a white dward. It actually looks like the rules are included in the ASM box or something. That would be new.

 Leth wrote:
Same reason someone buys digital, or collects magic cards, or prefers hardback. Some people spend 3 or 4 times the price of the models to have them painted by other people. Some people have every single book that has come out since second edition on their wall. If I was one of them I would have no problem getting the limited edition, it looks like a joy to read and you get all those cool little things hat everyone wants but few will buy.

I don't want your random reasons. I want the specific reasons why a person makes this choice. I want the person who is actually buying this to tell me their reasons. I'm not interested in insulting them, I'm genuinely curious.

If they enjoy having it then what does it matter? I know people where cost is not really a consideration it's "do I want it or not". If they want it or they think they will enjoy it, they buy it. That's all that matters.

Even wealthy people are rarely frivolous: understanding the difference between value and cost. Kirby gets derided for his comment about "the hobby is buying GW products," but every day I think I understand that he wasn't entirely wrong.

I like the new models, the potable legs and scenic bases. I remember how much of a pain the old assault marines are, and secretly hope this new mould fixes some of the problems.

I must say, I for one am glad they did not give ASM melta ar plasma options. Lets Raptors have something to set them apart. However, there is a real good chance this codex may tip the scales in favor of Loyalist Marinesas a follow up to my Chaos army. I will wait to see what they did with Raven Guard and Black Templars, as outside of FW they are the only Loyalist I have interest in.

Edit: This post was not meant as a "boo-hoo my spikey marines don't get this" type. I also like that BA and DA keep things to make them different. More variaty is better, IMO.

I nearly bought the CW Eldar Limited Edition, because I loved the direction the game was going. Sure, the Decurion and Wraiths were a wiff, but everything else lately had been done so well. And the LE looked really nice.

Fortunately, rules came out before I committed. So I didn't.

I bought a Ltd Ed Space Marine codex (Salamanders) last time round.

The main reason was that the cover image was really great, and that it had a Forge World style Mk IV helmet, which exactly matched the heads I had put on all my marines:



And of course, I didn't foresee the codex being replaced within 2 years!

Thankfully, I am still playing 6th edition anyway, so won't pick up the new codex and will keep playing with my super-expensive book

Why are plasma pistols still 15 points?

Because someone, some where at the heart of GW, thinks that a one shot, half range plasma gun is worth the same as the real thing.

Because GW can't be seen to support third party bitz resellers, all of whom have several warehouses containing only hundreds of thousands of plasma pistols, awaiting the day when GW drop the points cost to something sensible.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Because someone, some where at the heart of GW, thinks that a one shot, half range plasma gun is worth the same as the real thing.

Or is having post-traumatic flashbacks to 3rd, where an assault squad to get two in a squad for 5 points each. And if they didn’t move, they could double tap them.

Those were good days to be an assault marine.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Where does that picture come from? I mean, not BolS, I know that, but I mean, it has the rules for ASM in English, and then just below the rules for ASM in French (except with GW ultra-crappy translation policy that sucks ball and is laughably terribly bad and horrible and I despise it so much). It does not look like it comes from a codex, or even a white dward. It actually looks like the rules are included in the ASM box or something. That would be new.

The rules are indeed in the box.

Got my mitts on the white dwarf

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Where does that picture come from? I mean, not BolS, I know that, but I mean, it has the rules for ASM in English, and then just below the rules for ASM in French (except with GW ultra-crappy translation policy that sucks ball and is laughably terribly bad and horrible and I despise it so much). It does not look like it comes from a codex, or even a white dward. It actually looks like the rules are included in the ASM box or something. That would be new.

I suspect it may be a Canadian version of WD where our French is a bit more "Franglais" and we use "Tu" a lot more than the "proper" France "Vous" and other interesting differences.
I guess I am saying I would give some benefit of the doubt on regional differences in language use.
My French is horrible but my kids are in full French school so they set me straight on occasion .
<edit>Ah! the rules they pack in the model box! Makes sense. My mistake.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Same reason someone buys digital, or collects magic cards, or prefers hardback. Some people spend 3 or 4 times the price of the models to have them painted by other people. Some people have every single book that has come out since second edition on their wall. If I was one of them I would have no problem getting the limited edition, it looks like a joy to read and you get all those cool little things hat everyone wants but few will buy.

I don't want your random reasons. I want the specific reasons why a person makes this choice. I want the person who is actually buying this to tell me their reasons. I'm not interested in insulting them, I'm genuinely curious.

I got the Farsight Enclaves LE codex. It was only £60, though, so not as much as these newer ones.

The main reason I got it was because I'd played Tau since they came out, and sold off the army at the end of 5th with the plan of getting a pure Crisis suit army led by Farsight if it ever became a thing in the future. Well, it did become a thing, so I was pretty happy about that and decided to get something special for it, and went for the LE codex and a bunch of FW units in addition to a massive pile of Crisis suits.

Also, I'm in a financially comfortable position (dual income, no kids), so spending money on 40k isn't a big deal.

I have no regrets buying it, but I also have no intentions of getting any other LE codices. If a seriously awesome Harlequins release comes out in a couple of years, then maybe.

That's me. If they'd done a CSM one with Iron Warriors on the cover it would have been an instant sell for me. I haven't grabbed a limited edition of anything but wouldn't stop myself if it was a faction I've loved for over a decade. That said looking forward to the SM book just to see how I might adjust my marines (which are Iron Warriors I use as whatever SM or CSM I want).

This SM codex I figure I will buy the physical book since that is the main army I play.

All the 7th edition stuff I have gone completely electronic now.

My thinking is that it is good for reference to play or update my memory but none of it is worth keeping.

I think I have a hard copy of pretty much everything up to 5th edition and I pretty much gave up at 6th and arrived at the electronic compromise in order to play well and not get surprised by all these new army rules.

Due to the speed of releases and the pretty much guaranteed supplements the collection editions barely merit a glance: the collection value of these products have devalued past my threshold.

Funny with my SM force spanning some 5 editions my main value is painting and the odd new kit gets rolled into it's own squad... each squad I have are VERY unique, no special numbering or markings needed to know who belongs to what.

 Talys wrote:
Actually, Grarg, here you go:

Top row - Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard
Bottom Row - Iron Hands, Salamanders, Successor Chapters, White Scars



If I did a no-no snapping a pic of that spread, moderator please delete. Of all the things to show off though, I doubt a 2page spread on LE codex is something GW would mind much

Awesome thanks man. Yeah the previous picture had so much glare on it i couldn't tell, but your description is spot on. Thanks.

 pretre wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm surprised I'm the first person (I've noticed) to suggest this, but we've seen upgrade sprues for the non-Codex chapters, we're seeing a DA model muddled in with a C:SM release period, and, supposedly a book after.

Supplements anyone?

I'm okay with this.

Supplement/codexes like the skitarii or harlequin one would be fine. Put the majority of the units in c:sm and the divergent units in the supplemental volume.

As a BT player, I would also be perfectly OK with that.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
The rules are indeed in the box.

Thanks.

 Talizvar wrote:
I guess I am saying I would give some benefit of the doubt on regional differences in language use.

No. GW translation policy is just plain horribly bad, and has been for a few years no iirc. They translate some stuff and not others, leaving an horrible mess. Nothing new.

Assault marine rules got leaked over on Bolter.

 Las wrote:
Assault marine rules got leaked over on Bolter.

Check the previous page here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Las wrote:
Assault marine rules got leaked over on Bolter.

Check the previous page here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Unless these are tie over rules, supplied in the box so you can use eviscerators, until the new codex becomes available?

Why would they be tie over?

They'll be the rules in the codex, just like with the Knights.

 pretre wrote:
Why would they be tie over?

Wont these assault marines be available before the codex will be?

By a week or so right?

Until that new codex there would be no rules for the Eviscerator in a marine army.

Now its probably not and these just are the rules that will be in the codex, was just a thought.

 the_Armyman wrote:

(1) Now that it seems more and more likely GW will do a constant 1-2 year churn on codexes and rulebooks, people still think of purchasing "limited editon" books for triple the price? (2)What's the thought process behind that? (3) Do you expect it to become a collector's item? (4) Wouldn't you rather have an extra $100 worth of models?

A rulebook is a utilitarian item. Having a limited edition codex is sorta like having hand-painted toilet paper. When I buy a rulebook, I'm just concerned about the content. (5)When I buy toilet paper, I'm mainly concerned about not having my hands covered in feces.

I bought the Limited Edition Space Marines codex (Imperial Fists) last time around, as well as the LE Chaos Daemons (Tzeentch), and the LE FW HH Book 3 that came with the slip case and 2 LE smaller army list books. Let me answer a few questions.

(1) No. I won't buy this again. If it was a new rulebook every 4-5 years, sure. That would work out to $20 a year, by my reckoning. Once every 1-2 years? No thanks. That's just not enough return. feth off.

(2) For buying LE books in general? I only got and few of them and each was for an army I play. I thought they look nice and each was within my means. As for the mind-set of buying them eveyr 2 years? I can't help you. I'm not at that point.

(3) No. I never expected it to be a collector's item. I don't look at my hobby stuff as an investment. It's gak I buy for me to enjoy and use, period.

(4)



(5) Bad example. Generic TP costs 1/2 or less of what Cottonelle costs. However, I buy Cottonelle toilet paper because I don't like wiping my ass with sandpaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Henshini wrote:
Why are plasma pistols still 15 points?

Who the hell knows. At 5 points, I'd give one to every sergeant. At 10 points, I'd be choosier but still take 1-2. At 15 points, they can feth right the hell off to the bits box.

Except for Brother Julius, because it looks bitchin:

 Talizvar wrote:
f releases and the pretty much guaranteed supplements the collection editions barely merit a glance: the collection value of these products have devalued past my threshold.

I'd say the same for the normal hardbacks in my case. At $50+ for a codex, I just don't play enough games in the 1-2 year codex life cycle to justify that kind of a purchase for the five full sized 100% painted armies I have (let alone the 2-3 smaller ally type forces). In 3rd edition, I used to buy every codex because I wanted to learn the rules and fluff of the various races as a new and excited player. I skipped 4th due to burnout of most of the group (we were playing 1-2 times a week for years in a row). In 5th, I bought every codex for armies I had as well as a few more that I found interesting or was considering starting at the time (two of which I later did start). In 6th/7th, I only bought books for armies that I already had due to the unwanted price increase/book format change and put the idea of starting new full sized armies on permanent hold. After having so much stuff already invalidated in <2 years or just about to be, I'm no longer buying the books at all and will find another way to play. It's a drop in the bucket for GW admittedly but they deserve the spit.

 warboss wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
f releases and the pretty much guaranteed supplements the collection editions barely merit a glance: the collection value of these products have devalued past my threshold.

I'd say the same for the normal hardbacks in my case. At $50+ for a codex, I just don't play enough games in the 1-2 year codex life cycle to justify that kind of a purchase for the five full sized 100% painted armies I have (let alone the 2-3 smaller ally type forces). In 3rd edition, I used to buy every codex because I wanted to learn the rules and fluff of the various races as a new and excited player. I skipped 4th due to burnout of most of the group (we were playing 1-2 times a week for years in a row). In 5th, I bought every codex for armies I had as well as a few more that I found interesting or was considering starting at the time (two of which I later did start). In 6th/7th, I only bought books for armies that I already had due to the unwanted price increase/book format change and put the idea of starting new full sized armies on permanent hold. After having so much stuff already invalidated in <2 years or just about to be, I'm no longer buying the books at all and will find another way to play. It's a drop in the bucket for GW admittedly but they deserve the spit.

Well, if you want a legit version that's also cheaper, the eBooks are $20 cheaper for each. I think the idea now is: if you want a cheap version for just the rules and don't care about having the nice hardcover, you go digital.

Yup, and my already purchased battlescribe/army builder for most of the stats you need during the game handy at the table.

 kronk wrote:
[Except for Brother Julius, because it looks bitchin:

Great to see other BT stuff out there, does that dude have an Afro?
I feel a sudden need to inject "Pulp Fiction" or "Shaft" into my 40k.
Oh, that is awesome.
We have the phrase "Go fasta red."
Now there is "Go more stylin black.".


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 warboss wrote:
Yup, and my already purchased battlescribe/army builder for most of the stats you need during the game handy at the table.

Yep, transfer relevant stats into Excel, copy-paste at will for army lists.
Usually I cannot wait for those things to update.
The electronic copy does allow some limited copy-paste from the book so that is an added bonus.

I think there are three groups of people who post:

- I like Games Workshop stuff and I can afford it, so I'll just buy it because it's my happy pill!

- I don't like Games Workshop, so I won't buy it, and I already play something else, or nothing at all, but I will come here to complain, because bitching is my happy pill!

- I say I don't like Games Workshop, but I secretly like and play their game even if say I hate it. What I really want is to play Warhammer without spending much money! Give me a box of free happy pills!

- I like Games Workshop stuff, but only buy what I like, at a discount.

 BrookM wrote:
- I like Games Workshop stuff, but only buy what I like, at a discount.

Yup, but that's me! It's still number 1. Orks are my happy pill!

I like GW, buy what I like and fund it all through buying and selling used stuff.

Vyxen wrote:
I think there are three groups of people who post:

- I like Games Workshop stuff and I can afford it, so I'll just buy it because it's my happy pill!

- I don't like Games Workshop, so I won't buy it, and I already play something else, or nothing at all, but I will come here to complain, because bitching is my happy pill!

- I say I don't like Games Workshop, but I secretly like and play their game even if say I hate it. What I really want is to play Warhammer without spending much money! Give me a box of free happy pills!

You forgot the fourth kind

-I don't express much of an opinion but instead prefer to pigeon hole fellow posters I don't agree with into snarky categories because that is my happy pill!


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 pretre wrote:
I like GW, buy what I like and fund it all through buying and selling used stuff.

That's what I've been doing for years as well. It wasn't a moral stance but rather a reaction to cleaning and organizing my hobby basement box collection for the first time in years after moving and realizing I had way too much stuff that I hadn't used (half of which since Clinton was president). The decision to try to only buy used GW models when possible later on was though.

2 days from pre-order. I really would like to have seen some leaks by now, I'm still considering starting some Raven Guard but dunno how they're going to shake out.

 kronk wrote:




Except for Brother Julius, because it looks bitchin:

Have all my exalts! fething made my day!

Hell, I may just buy this and use my spike marines as "counts as". I will wait and see when it has been put on Battlescribe.

Vyxen wrote:
I think there are three groups of people who post:

- I like Games Workshop stuff and I can afford it, so I'll just buy it because it's my happy pill!

- I don't like Games Workshop, so I won't buy it, and I already play something else, or nothing at all, but I will come here to complain, because bitching is my happy pill!

- I say I don't like Games Workshop, but I secretly like and play their game even if say I hate it. What I really want is to play Warhammer without spending much money! Give me a box of free happy pills!

And what if we quite openly say that we play the game but dislike GW/their business practices, is that OK with you, Oh Giver of Permissions, Oh Arbiter of Everyone's Opinions, He Who Is Called Giganticus Hypocriticus(because nothing says "moral high ground" like complaining about complaining)?

What about complaining about complaining about complaining?

 pretre wrote:
What about complaining about complaining about complaining?

Do we need to go deeper?

OT:

What I'm wondering is if the detachments will make assault marines not suck. I want to buy them but the rules are just so weak.

Smart money is on 'no'. They'll still be Marines in Assault, and we have seen their equipment. Formations like that Javelin Strike Force are more likely to have to do with getting in Assault instead of the impact of the models doing the Assaulting. That's really how it's always been.

Gonna buy me the successor edition

Ah well, this is my fully painted army to play so this edition is getting bought.
I am just praying not too many painted models get shelved that were hit with the gimp stick.
How bad can it be for the original "angry marines" the BT?

-no 2 wound sergeant
-no fixing of overcosted veteran upgrade
-no fixing of overcosted melee weapons
-no price drop for overcosted marines
-nerf in the form of no more discounted transports
-no fixing of pistol prices

Yep, GW is still terrible at rules.
Why do we follow the official rules again? We should just kickstarter zagman up some printed books for his errata and switch.

 Yodhrin wrote:
And what if we quite openly say that we play the game but dislike GW/their business practices, is that OK with you, Oh Giver of Permissions, Oh Arbiter of Everyone's Opinions, He Who Is Called Giganticus Hypocriticus(because nothing says "moral high ground" like complaining about complaining)?

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining! I actually find it pretty entertaining to watch. I wouldn't have it any other way!

I openly admit to enjoying watching pointless drama unfold and round and round arguments, and I also actually really like Warhammer. Dakka Dakka came up because I made the mistake of commenting that I watch Young and the Restless, and someone commented this board had more drama than Victor Newman. They were actually right! It's ok, feel free to flame me. I'm a big girl. Right, I am not a "he"!

What I should really say is, "Thank you!".

 djphranq wrote:
Gonna buy me the successor edition

Where are you going to order it, the GW web store? There is still a tiny chance I might get the LE. I'd just much rather get it from my FLGS, but the chances they'll get that at least a day later than the regular one is almost guaranteed (if not the following week...). :(

I certainly don't want to end up buying BOTH, LOL.

 Talys wrote:

 djphranq wrote:
Gonna buy me the successor edition

Where are you going to order it, the GW web store? There is still a tiny chance I might get the LE. I'd just much rather get it from my FLGS, but the chances they'll get that at least a day later than the regular one is almost guaranteed (if not the following week...). :(

I certainly don't want to end up buying BOTH, LOL.

From what I recall, the space marine LE books went very fast. Don't count on your FLGS getting one. Possible, and perhaps the 2-year turn around is turning people off to them, but the risk is yours.

Vyxen wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
And what if we quite openly say that we play the game but dislike GW/their business practices, is that OK with you, Oh Giver of Permissions, Oh Arbiter of Everyone's Opinions, He Who Is Called Giganticus Hypocriticus(because nothing says "moral high ground" like complaining about complaining)?

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining! I actually find it pretty entertaining to watch. I wouldn't have it any other way!
I openly admit to enjoying watching pointless drama unfold and round and round arguments, and I also actually really like Warhammer. Dakka Dakka came up because I made the mistake of commenting that I watch Young and the Restless, and someone commented this board had more drama than Victor Newman. They were actually right! It's ok, feel free to flame me. I'm a big girl. Right, I am not a "he"!
What I should really say is, "Thank you!".

At the very least despite all claims to the contrary: people care!
The real complaints is that the new codex is again a "missed opportunity".
The only real irritant about complaining is it being a means to an end: can you see how it could have been better? Any idea why they chose not to do that?

Many skills, stats and point costs of the SM's have remained pretty much the same for 3 or more editions (I am not going back and looking to be "accurate").
Each new codex is a chance to add a new feel to this army or as it has been pointed out: for an elite force they seem more like the baseline.
A legitimate beef would be for various models to be shelved due to not being useful enough for the points.
If GW really wants all their models to sell, some good rules to make everything useful enough to play would be logical.

At least the learning curve will be rather short as a positive note.

Vyxen, you have set yourself up for me to dub thee as "Drama Queen" but it is REALLY good to identify the ladies out there playing 40k: gives me hope to see some in my area.
Yodhrin I can only think of "Stick Yod-head-rin the sand" and you will hear a lot less hypocrisy.

 kronk wrote:
From what I recall, the space marine LE books went very fast. Don't count on your FLGS getting one. Possible, and perhaps the 2-year turn around is turning people off to them, but the risk is yours.

They have an allocation for them (ie a small number of guaranteed stock, if they want it). The problem for me is not the 2 year thing at all. It's that as soon as the book hits, I want to be able to pick it up, not a day or two later -- or after the weekend. Because if that happens, I'll end up buying the non-LE, and then I'm still committed to the LE, and I will feel kinda dumb

Plus, all my SM friends will buy the book the day it hits local stores, so it's not like I can buy it first and sell it to someone else. And, I have zero inclination to list it on eBay or Craigslist after. I guess my store would take it back if I asked them super nicely, but I don't want to put them through that.

 kronk wrote:
[From what I recall, the space marine LE books went very fast. Don't count on your FLGS getting one. Possible, and perhaps the 2-year turn around is turning people off to them, but the risk is yours.

Oh I loved how Dakka added meaning to the "LE" acronym: "Leech Essence", oh, that made my day.

 Talys wrote:

 djphranq wrote:
Gonna buy me the successor edition

Where are you going to order it, the GW web store? There is still a tiny chance I might get the LE. I'd just much rather get it from my FLGS, but the chances they'll get that at least a day later than the regular one is almost guaranteed (if not the following week...). :(

I certainly don't want to end up buying BOTH, LOL.

If I can I'm gonna do the preorder via my local GW here in Denver. Ive had a good experience with this shop compared to other GWs or even compared to some of the independent game shops around here.

 Talizvar wrote:
Vyxen, you have set yourself up for me to dub thee as "Drama Queen" but it is REALLY good to identify the ladies out there playing 40k: gives me hope to see some in my area.

I am very naughty that way Sorry! I'm a shameless gossip too, so if you tell me your secrets, I'll can make sure that everyone knows.

There are a few of us gals who play Warhammer here -- I met my boyfriend in a group of people who play Magic the Gathering, and he introduced me to Warhammer 40,000. I was surprised how much I enjoy it, even though I am pretty sure the only games I win are ones where people throw the game, or I roll super hot dice that day!

Vyxen wrote:
I met my boyfriend in a group of people who play Magic the Gathering, and he introduced me to Warhammer 40,000. I was surprised how much I enjoy it, even though I am pretty sure the only games I win are ones where people throw the game, or I roll super hot dice that day!

it is of interest: What army do you play?
Is it marines or are you just here for the ranting and raving?

Come on. Nobody is just here to rant and rave. And certainly not me .

 djphranq wrote:
If I can I'm gonna do the preorder via my local GW here in Denver. Ive had a good experience with this shop compared to other GWs or even compared to some of the independent game shops around here.

Neat, appreciate the tip

I'll think about it some. Maybe I'll go with it and get the Raven Guard one. I think Raven Guard would look pretty good with Blood Angels on a tabletop, and fit in quite nicely with the red/black/gold. Plus rumors of a Raven Guard / Tau box, right? Though there aren't any Raven Guard models, so I wonder what all that is about. Upgrade sprue, maybe?

Yay, another reason to paint 20 more tactical marines :X

 Talizvar wrote:

Vyxen wrote:
I met my boyfriend in a group of people who play Magic the Gathering, and he introduced me to Warhammer 40,000. I was surprised how much I enjoy it, even though I am pretty sure the only games I win are ones where people throw the game, or I roll super hot dice that day!

it is of interest: What army do you play?
Is it marines or are you just here for the ranting and raving?

Greenskins! I love my Orks. I am going to buy my boyfriend the Limited Edition Ultramarines codex as a present, though, which was the real reason I came to this thread. I couldn't help it. So many ranters and ravers about why anyone would want to pay for a limited edition book or assault marines or devastator marines.

Since someone asked the question, the reason I'm buying a Limited Edition codex is because someone ELSE would really like it, and it would make THEM happy. How's that for an answer!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Come on. Nobody is just here to rant and rave. And certainly not me .

I was referring to myself but if you are willing to point it out...
I will continue saying it is just a way of expressing "we care"... <hugs all around>... oh who am I kidding, I identify with Khorn and desperately need a chain-axe, now hold still...

 pretre wrote:
What about complaining about complaining about complaining?

Sounds like your next tracking thread! I'll definitely be on that list unlike rumors.

 Talizvar wrote:
I will continue saying it is just a way of expressing "we care"...

Yeah, I care. GW just likes making me bitter about it.

niv-mizzet wrote:
-no 2 wound sergeant
-no fixing of overcosted veteran upgrade
-no fixing of overcosted melee weapons
-no price drop for overcosted marines
-nerf in the form of no more discounted transports
-no fixing of pistol prices

Yep, GW is still terrible at rules.
Why do we follow the official rules again? We should just kickstarter zagman up some printed books for his errata and switch.

Have you gotten the codex early or are you extrapolating the entire book from the assault and dev entries?

I wonder whats going to happen to the FW Chapter Tactics. Probably just going to end up staying on the site with something like "discuss with your friends if they're still ok to use" or something like that.

Requizen wrote:
I wonder whats going to happen to the FW Chapter Tactics. Probably just going to end up staying on the site with something like "discuss with your friends if they're still ok to use" or something like that.

It could still fall under the habitual "Oh it is Forgeworld, it does not count."
The will get around to some kind of update, they are a fair bit better than the classic GW FAQ.

 Talys wrote:

 djphranq wrote:
If I can I'm gonna do the preorder via my local GW here in Denver. Ive had a good experience with this shop compared to other GWs or even compared to some of the independent game shops around here.

Neat, appreciate the tip

I'll think about it some. Maybe I'll go with it and get the Raven Guard one. I think Raven Guard would look pretty good with Blood Angels on a tabletop, and fit in quite nicely with the red/black/gold. Plus rumors of a Raven Guard / Tau box, right? Though there aren't any Raven Guard models, so I wonder what all that is about. Upgrade sprue, maybe?

Yay, another reason to paint 20 more tactical marines :X

I was wondering that too. I really like the raven guard markings/insignia and would love to get models or an upgrade sprue that had them.

Forge World do really nice Raven Guard upgrades. Now if only they'd get round to doing some Blood Angel stuff...

Vyxen wrote:
Since someone asked the question, the reason I'm buying a Limited Edition codex is because someone ELSE would really like it, and it would make THEM happy. How's that for an answer!

You know, this is actually the best reason to buy a Limited Edition book that I've seen so far Nice present... Lucky guy!

 Talys wrote:

Vyxen wrote:
Since someone asked the question, the reason I'm buying a Limited Edition codex is because someone ELSE would really like it, and it would make THEM happy. How's that for an answer!

You know, this is actually the best reason to buy a Limited Edition book that I've seen so far Nice present... Lucky guy!

They do make nice gifts and keepsakes. I think that's probably where a large number of them go, particularly these days with the obscene release frequency.

 warboss wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
-no 2 wound sergeant
-no fixing of overcosted veteran upgrade
-no fixing of overcosted melee weapons
-no price drop for overcosted marines
-nerf in the form of no more discounted transports
-no fixing of pistol prices

Yep, GW is still terrible at rules.
Why do we follow the official rules again? We should just kickstarter zagman up some printed books for his errata and switch.

Have you gotten the codex early or are you extrapolating the entire book from the assault and dev entries?

That's extrapolation from the box rules.

 Bull0 wrote:
Forge World do really nice Raven Guard upgrades. Now if only they'd get round to doing some Blood Angel stuff...

You're right -- the Mk 3 shoulder pads are great, and the Mk 4 helms are really nice too.

 Talizvar wrote:

Requizen wrote:
I wonder whats going to happen to the FW Chapter Tactics. Probably just going to end up staying on the site with something like "discuss with your friends if they're still ok to use" or something like that.

It could still fall under the habitual "Oh it is Forgeworld, it does not count."
The will get around to some kind of update, they are a fair bit better than the classic GW FAQ.

They updated their marine chapters to include chapter tactics after the 6th edition codex introduced them so I don't see why they wouldn't update them again. It likely will take them a few months as it doesn't generally make them money direct to create a free update PDF but they haven't really to my knowledge given folks a reason to think otherwise. Granted at the time they came out with the prior update, they weren't so coo coo for horus heresey coco puffs but we're still talking about the cash cow astartes here.

 Bull0 wrote:
Forge World do really nice Raven Guard upgrades. Now if only they'd get round to doing some Blood Angel stuff...

Agreed, on both parts! The wait for FW Blood Angels models is driving me mad!

I don't get it.

- Why would sergeants get W2? This is not something common to squad leaders, and you pay nothing extra in points for the sergeant (the same 14/17 points as everyone else).

- Melee weapons aren't overcosted; 7e is just more range-centric. I think SM melee weapons are cost average-ish. You're better off leaving melee weapons as they are, and perhaps 8e will swing the pendulum in the direction of cc. Though scientifically, cc weapons 40,000 years in the future on a battlefield with hovertanks and flying units is a head-scratcher anyhow.

- We don't know what CTs there are and special stuff that gives them better buffage.

- No drop pods to ASM stings, but who plays vanilla marines and takes ASM in the first place, not to mention ASM on drop pods, so what does it matter? If you want good ASM take blood angels.

My off-the-top guess is that Space marines will come out more powerful than they were before, because of Gladius detachment and chapter tactics. And really, they don't need to be more powerful.


Personally, my #1 request would be buffing Terminators, since these are an iconic unit, they are fun to paint, and horrible to play.

 Talys wrote:
I don't get it.

- Why would sergeants get W2? This is not something common to squad leaders, and you pay nothing extra in points for the sergeant (the same 14/17 points as everyone else).

Because when one captain dies, the most veteran sergeant in the company takes his place and suddenly triples his wound count overnight? I can see the justification for keeping normal sergeants at 1 W while bumping up vets to 2W at the appropriate cost.

 warboss wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
-no 2 wound sergeant
-no fixing of overcosted veteran upgrade
-no fixing of overcosted melee weapons
-no price drop for overcosted marines
-nerf in the form of no more discounted transports
-no fixing of pistol prices

Yep, GW is still terrible at rules.
Why do we follow the official rules again? We should just kickstarter zagman up some printed books for his errata and switch.

Have you gotten the codex early or are you extrapolating the entire book from the assault and dev entries?

I'm looking for a book like the crons and eldar, not in the sense of being OP, but by every unit being reasonably good and playable. Right off the bat, we have the asm rules already confirming that that ain't happening. I never said anything about the parts of the book we haven't seen yet, so I'm not sure why you think I have.

 warboss wrote:
Because when one captain dies, the most veteran sergeant in the company takes his place and suddenly triples his wound count overnight?

But that is the same for every army. It is like this for Sisters, I guess it is the same for guard, tau, …

Bumping the sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant should give them W2, IMHO.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Because when one captain dies, the most veteran sergeant in the company takes his place and suddenly triples his wound count overnight?

But that is the same for every army. It is like this for Sisters, I guess it is the same for guard, tau, …

Except that "sergeant" equivalents (exarchs) in the Eldar codex just got 2 wounds so definitely not every army. It's a possiblity but I fully admit that it is not a probability. In this case, I just happen to think that the buff would actually both mesh with the fluff and not be overpowering either as long as they're not handing out eternal warrior like candy along with it.

Autarchs are no better at combat than Aspect Warriors, and nowhere close to Exarch levels. But Autarchs have better stats than Exarchs.

And a Vindicare Assassin is better at swordplay (WS) than Jain freaking Zar.

Sure, it seems odd that a vet sarge goes from 1 to 3 HP overnight, but 3W on an HQ is more about plot armor than fluff. And a lot of stats don't match the fluff.

(Sarges and Exarchs are very, very different roles.)

 kronk wrote:
Bumping the sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant should give them W2, IMHO.

Yup, I said that above. It would give you a tangible reason to upgrade beyond +1 A/LD.

 kronk wrote:
Bumping the sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant should give them W2, IMHO.

Except never in the history of 40K have veteran sergeants had 2 W, unlike Exarchs.

Nocturnus wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Bumping the sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant should give them W2, IMHO.

Except never in the history of 40K have veteran sergeants had 2 W, unlike Exarchs.

My 30k FW HH books say otherwise.

 warboss wrote:
Because when one captain dies, the most veteran sergeant in the company takes his place and suddenly triples his wound count overnight? I can see the justification for keeping normal sergeants at 1 W while bumping up vets to 2W at the appropriate cost.

Sweet! I like this. It should actually be, every time a member of a squad dies, the rest get harder to kill

Bharring wrote:
Autarchs are no better at combat than Aspect Warriors, and nowhere close to Exarch levels. But Autarchs have better stats than Exarchs.

And a Vindicare Assassin is better at swordplay (WS) than Jain freaking Zar.

Sure, it seems odd that a vet sarge goes from 1 to 3 HP overnight, but 3W on an HQ is more about plot armor than fluff. And a lot of stats don't match the fluff.

(Sarges and Exarchs are very, very different roles.)

If you've read any Black Library novels, you'd see that plenty of veteran sergeants have improved artificer plot armor as well. In any case, there is nothing in between the scout's 1 Wound and the Captain's 3 wounds in the normal marine hierarchy (without obviously diverting to auxillary roles like chaplains and librarians). This quick fix solves that issue (assuming you think one exists). It's a matter of opinion and as such GW doesn't give a rat's ass about it since they don't want our opinions. They'll do whatever they want ala Eric Cartmann regardless and the literal (chinese cargo) ship has long sailed so we'll find out in a few weeks if any of the squads get that bump. Even if it was just a veteran squad sergeant upgrade, I'd be fine with that.

 Talys wrote:
I don't get it.

- Why would sergeants get W2? This is not something common to squad leaders, and you pay nothing extra in points for the sergeant (the same 14/17 points as everyone else).

- Melee weapons aren't overcosted; 7e is just more range-centric. I think SM melee weapons are cost average-ish. You're better off leaving melee weapons as they are, and perhaps 8e will swing the pendulum in the direction of cc. Though scientifically, cc weapons 40,000 years in the future on a battlefield with hovertanks and flying units is a head-scratcher anyhow.

- We don't know what CTs there are and special stuff that gives them better buffage.

- No drop pods to ASM stings, but who plays vanilla marines and takes ASM in the first place, not to mention ASM on drop pods, so what does it matter? If you want good ASM take blood angels.

My off-the-top guess is that Space marines will come out more powerful than they were before, because of Gladius detachment and chapter tactics. And really, they don't need to be more powerful.


Personally, my #1 request would be buffing Terminators, since these are an iconic unit, they are fun to paint, and horrible to play.

Exarchs, crypteks, lords, etc. there was a speculation theory that the sarges, at least the veterans, might go up to 2w, which would be pretty reasonable.

Melee weapons ARE overcosted. 15 for 2 s7ap2 shots at reasonable range, or 15 for 2 s4ap3 melee swings at 0" range that needs at least 2 turns before it can get used, 3 against an opponent actively avoiding it.

Yes we don't know the formations yet, which is why I haven't commented on them. My comments are based on what's on the paper right now. I'm not a fan of formations. I won't necessarily be happy if they become awesome just because of some OP formation bonus.

"Who plays vanilla marines and takes ASM in the first place?" Exactly. I want a unit to be a decent playable option, and you agree that it currently isn't.

"And really, they don't need to be more powerful." Errrr, speaking from the competitive scene, they need everything except a few all-stars to be buffed actually. Cents, masses of pods, sicarans, TFC's, shield eternal, and bikers are what is holding the 6e book up right now. I would be in love with the new book if that stuff dropped a bit and everything else got raised to reasonable levels. 14 points for the base marine is no longer passable in the current game unless they are mass podding.

If you're speaking from non-competitive games, well, that's different for everyone.

 kronk wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Bumping the sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant should give them W2, IMHO.

Except never in the history of 40K have veteran sergeants had 2 W, unlike Exarchs.

My 30k FW HH books say otherwise.

Is that a thing for all veteran sergeants? Wow, I totally missed that from my online thread perusals. I knew certain units were two wounds like GK Paladins (gal vorbak, red butchers, and fire drakes) but didn't realize it was true for other squad sergeants. FW gets it right yet again...

 warboss wrote:

 kronk wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Bumping the sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant should give them W2, IMHO.

Except never in the history of 40K have veteran sergeants had 2 W, unlike Exarchs.

My 30k FW HH books say otherwise.

Is that a thing for all veteran sergeants? Wow, I totally missed that from my online thread perusals. I knew certain units were two wounds like GK Paladins (gal vorbak, red butchers, and fire drakes) but didn't realize it was true for other squad sergeants. FW gets it right yet again...

Not all, no. Just a few squads like the Templar Brethren, sadly. They all should have them.

 warboss wrote:
Except that "sergeant" equivalents (exarchs) in the Eldar codex just got 2 wounds so definitely not every army.

Exarch are pretty special, with lots of extra rules.
I mean, sure, we could give 2 wounds to veteran sergeant, but that would involve more wound tracking for little extra in term of gameplay.

 Talys wrote:

Vyxen wrote:
Since someone asked the question, the reason I'm buying a Limited Edition codex is because someone ELSE would really like it, and it would make THEM happy. How's that for an answer!

You know, this is actually the best reason to buy a Limited Edition book that I've seen so far Nice present... Lucky guy!

Shows my limited imagination, agreed that is the best reason for getting the LE codex.

I like it, it actually makes sense, 2 wound sarges should be a thing.

 kronk wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Bumping the sergeant to a Veteran Sergeant should give them W2, IMHO.

Except never in the history of 40K have veteran sergeants had 2 W, unlike Exarchs.

My 30k FW HH books say otherwise.

30K.... Everything was better back then, And it's not all vet sgts. Good try though.

Assault Marines aren't getting new rules in the new Codex because of the rules bump jump packs will be getting in 8th edition 40K later this summer.

niv-mizzet wrote:
-no 2 wound sergeant
-no fixing of overcosted veteran upgrade
-no fixing of overcosted melee weapons
-no price drop for overcosted marines
-nerf in the form of no more discounted transports
-no fixing of pistol prices

Yep, GW is still terrible at rules.
Why do we follow the official rules again? We should just kickstarter zagman up some printed books for his errata and switch.

The veteran sergent upgrade is game wide. Almost everyone pays 10 points for a chump with +1 attack.
The melee weapons cost is game wide. Why would you spend 25 points giving a chump a chainfist he probably will never use?
The pistol prices are again a game wide issue. You know DE love paying 15 points for their blast pistol with it's uber 6" range. Guard pay 15points for a plasma pistol all the same, but are BS3.

They should update that with an edition change, rather than fix it in only C:SM making them better than everyone else.

Marines though, are not overcosted. 14point 4s across the board, 2 types of grenades, ATSKNF and great special rules(CT). Marines are versitle, you pay for that. If all you want to do with them is sit them behind cover and hold heavy weapons, yes they will seem expensive.

 pretre wrote:
What about complaining about complaining about complaining?

I wasn't complaining though, I was asking a question in a way that pointed out a hypocrisy. Hashtag semantics are fun

The "sergeant" counterparts in the Necrons codex (lords) also have two wounds, right? And so do the Skitarii ones.

I think this is going to be GW's policy henceforward and I exoect to see 2W Space Marines sergeanrs.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 pretre wrote:
What about complaining about complaining about complaining?

I wasn't complaining though, I was asking a question in a way that pointed out a hypocrisy. Hashtag semantics are fun

I wasn't saying you were complaining. I was asking a question in a way that pointed out hypocrisy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alcibiades wrote:
The "sergeant" counterparts in the Necrons codex (lords) also have two wounds, right? And so do the Skitarii ones.

I think this is going to be GW's policy henceforward and I exoect to see 2W Space Marines sergeanrs.

Except that was already shown not to be the case with the assault sergeants.

Alcibiades wrote:
The "sergeant" counterparts in the Necrons codex (lords) also have two wounds, right? And so do the Skitarii ones.

I think this is going to be GW's policy henceforward and I exoect to see 2W Space Marines sergeanrs.

Lords are an HQ choice, in the last edition they were basically Sergeants (didn't take a FOC slot and couldn't leave the unit they attached to) but only had 1 wound. Now they're budget HQs, like Captain lite.

Melee weapons cost more because i can't shoot my plasma guns in your shooting phase. I can swing a powerfist in your assault phase however.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Talys wrote:

Vyxen wrote:
Since someone asked the question, the reason I'm buying a Limited Edition codex is because someone ELSE would really like it, and it would make THEM happy. How's that for an answer!

You know, this is actually the best reason to buy a Limited Edition book that I've seen so far Nice present... Lucky guy!

Shows my limited imagination, agreed that is the best reason for getting the LE codex.

Unless the full story is that someone else would really like it, and as it would make them happy this poster is buying it purely so they won't get it!

 Azreal13 wrote:
Unless the full story is that someone else would really like it, and as it would make them happy this poster is buying it purely so they won't get it!

Wow, Az, my head hurts. I don't know what that means, hahaha.

So has there actually been any rules leaks this time around, or is it just the 6th ed marine codex with new coat of paint?

 Red Marine wrote:
Melee weapons cost more because i can't shoot my plasma guns in your shooting phase. I can swing a powerfist in your assault phase however.

You also aren't allowed to throw a Power Fist at someone, so yeah...

 Red Marine wrote:
Melee weapons cost more because i can't shoot my plasma guns in your shooting phase. I can swing a powerfist in your assault phase however.

You can also shoot (marginally) the plasma gun in my assault phase.
And I can't challenge the plasma gun during a shoot out so that he can be assassinated before he swings.
And the plasma gun guy doesn't need to roll 2d6 to make sure he doesn't trip over his own shoelaces epic marine style.
And the plasma gun hits on 3's instead of needing 4's against most opponents facing a sergeant.
And I don't get to shoot you first with a bunch of shots before your unwieldy plasma gun fires.
And so on...
It's been done to death. We are still waist-deep in a shooty edition where only the most standout superman all-star melee units are worth mentioning. Either the cost of shooting weapons and abilities needs to rise, the cost of melee weapons and abilities needs to lower, or we need a new edition, or some kind of combination/variation of the above.

Zagman's errata is on the right track. Maybe someday it can start getting adopted as an official ruleset.

 pretre wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 pretre wrote:
What about complaining about complaining about complaining?

I wasn't complaining though, I was asking a question in a way that pointed out a hypocrisy. Hashtag semantics are fun

I wasn't saying you were complaining. I was asking a question in a way that pointed out hypocrisy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alcibiades wrote:
The "sergeant" counterparts in the Necrons codex (lords) also have two wounds, right? And so do the Skitarii ones.

I think this is going to be GW's policy henceforward and I exoect to see 2W Space Marines sergeanrs.

Except that was already shown not to be the case with the assault sergeants.

Maybe if we pray really hard to the Emperor and Guilliman, the assault marine rules will just be filler for a week? And veteran sergeants really will get +1 ws, bs, w, a, ld and a special rule like exarchs all for 10pts?

 Crazyterran wrote:

Maybe if we pray really hard to the Emperor and Guilliman, the assault marine rules will just be filler for a week? And veteran sergeants really will get +1 ws, bs, w, a, ld and a special rule like exarchs all for 10pts?

The Chaos gods are punishing our hubris for thinking that all Codexes going forward will have Eldar-level increases in strength.

 Talys wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Unless the full story is that someone else would really like it, and as it would make them happy this poster is buying it purely so they won't get it!

Wow, Az, my head hurts. I don't know what that means, hahaha.

That's because nobody in your dimension is ever that mean, you simply cannot comprehend it!

I just picked up my Assault Marines today, and the box is pretty sweet. A couple of thoughts:

- The scenic bases are fantastic. The detail is exquisite, much better than currently available sculpted 32mms bases, and they are really perfect for "launching" aerial/jump models. Here is a close-up.



- The 2-part legs have the square-cut pegs, which are really nice. You can use the default, "optimal" pose by just using the notches, or you can cut off the notch and rotate it to the angle you want. However, each right leg is paired with a left leg, and most of them aren't interchangeable.

- The plastic is very clean, with some surprisingly nice chest pieces of the non-jump-harness variety.

- Two, cool new blank shoulderpads with a half aquilla on the bottom of the border. One Mk 5 shoulderpad, yay. But 9 blank shoulder pads :(

- Plain, very boring jump packs. All the same.

- Eviscerator is BIG!

- The Power Axe is a really nice sculpt.

-


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crazyterran wrote:

Maybe if we pray really hard to the Emperor and Guilliman, the assault marine rules will just be filler for a week? And veteran sergeants really will get +1 ws, bs, w, a, ld and a special rule like exarchs all for 10pts?

And just like Rogue Trader have the option to have a Vortex Grenade, too.

The devil is in the details; so much depends on the force org and chapter tactics. As it is though, ASM look to be no better than they've ever been. Which is to say, "not on vanilla marines". Heck, I would rather have scouts for 11 points than ASM for 14.

Those decorative base bits are awesome.

wow yeah, those decorative bases look really sweet lol, why don't they sell those by them Selves!

So the Gladius Strike Force is basically the same thing as the Blooded Demi-Company (BDC let's you swap the Command Squad and Captain for a Chaplain and Furioso Dreadnought). So no small loss for my BA, but now I need another Tactical Squad for my CF to allow them to make use of the Gladius Strike Force.

Those scenic bases are pretty dang neat. Hmm, maybe a should pick up a chump-jump squad.

I hope these new detachments and formations finally gives a reason for Black Templars to use bikes

I always felt bikes would fit the BT fluff nicely, I'm a little jealous of Dark Angels and White Scars....

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So the Gladius Strike Force is basically the same thing as the Blooded Demi-Company (BDC let's you swap the Command Squad and Captain for a Chaplain and Furioso Dreadnought). So no small loss for my BA, but now I need another Tactical Squad for my CF to allow them to make use of the Gladius Strike Force.

No, I don't think so. Blooded Demi-Company has very strict requirements (1 captain/chaplain, 3 tac, 1 assault, et cetera). On the other hand, Gladius says: that the captain/chaplain may "request a unit of veterans to teleport to the heart of the enemy's position" or "call upon an Armored Task Force of Vindicators and Thunderfire Cannons to lay siege to an enemy fortification." The WD goes on to say, "Not only does this give you the massive flexibility when creating your Space Marine army, it is also great fun creating a story to go with it."

One can only assume you have more flexibility than CAD, otherwise that would make no sense at all

My guess is that it will be Core-Command-Auxiliary, with 1+ command and 1+ core. Then one of the command slots will say 1 Captain, another one will say 1 Chaplain, etc. One of the Core options will probably be 2+ tactical squads, another will be 2+ assault, another will be 2+ bike, etc.

Then, if you have the Tactical Core, it will trigger/unlock the command doctrine, Tactical Doctrine. So, if you take Ultramarines + Tactical Core, you get 2x Tactical Doctrine (one being unlocked from the CT).

That's my guess, anyhow!! It seems like 2015GW is all about giving people formations within formations, each with free gak.

 Talys wrote:
- The scenic bases are fantastic. The detail is exquisite, much better than currently available sculpted 32mms bases, and they are really perfect for "launching" aerial/jump models. Here is a close-up..

If they were in a 'scenic base' kit, that would be great.

Really not a fan of either every squad having identical bases, or every jump model in the army being perched on a piece of terrain.


They are nicely detailed, though.

@Insaniak - yeah, you're right about not basing your assault marines the same way. There are actually 2 styles of bases, too -- one stone, one metal, which would look better on 2 different groups IMO.

On the bright side, the bases are large enough to put many regular (non jump) models on.

 RedFox wrote:
I hope these new detachments and formations finally gives a reason for Black Templars to use bikes

I always felt bikes would fit the BT fluff nicely, I'm a little jealous of Dark Angels and White Scars....

That's if we end up in the same book or as a supplement.

A decent pic of the Devastators from today's blog post

I wonder if that little cherub thing is purely decorative or a new item of wargear....

Check this:




but to be honest I'm quite disappointed. The previous one was much better.

6e cover was way better.

Still very cool though.

Pity to see they changed artists.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
6e cover was way better.

I dunno I actually like the 7th ed more.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I wonder if that little cherub thing is purely decorative or a new item of wargear....

Would be fun if it was an 1 use only 12" range meltabomb.
Like the little guy flys and drop it on the enemy.

Looks good to me.

I like it also, previous one was one giant pointing fist

 BrookM wrote:
Pity to see they changed artists.

Looks the same to me?

I really like that cover actually. Better than 6th, and definitely better than the BA one.

Basic cover looks better than last one to me, Ltd Edition covers much worse.

I'm interested in seeing the points for a squad of grav cannon devastators will by, the necessity of buying two boxes for the required grav cannons is also a pain

Basic TAC marine firing a bolt pistol. Hmmm not particularly epic or evocative. Disappointed meself.

Any news on Termies/Dreads, did they get any sort of buff/love?

 Ratius wrote:
Basic TAC marine firing a bolt pistol. Hmmm not particularly epic or evocative. Disappointed meself.

Any news on Termies/Dreads, did they get any sort of buff/love?

GW knows that everyone has buckets of termies and dreads in their closet, so I'm betting no. God how I'd love to be wrong.

I don't know what they have against changing marines. They seem okay with mixing it up with all the xenos, but they seem to have an iron law stating marines MUST be the same meh statline with the same bad gun every edition.

It'd be nice if Dreads got the MC treatment but I doubt it.

 pretre wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 pretre wrote:
What about complaining about complaining about complaining?

I wasn't complaining though, I was asking a question in a way that pointed out a hypocrisy. Hashtag semantics are fun

I wasn't saying you were complaining. I was asking a question in a way that pointed out hypocrisy.

Except I displayed no hypocrisy, so your statement cannot be correct.

Oh, there's a Smurf in the cover of the new codex. What a surprise!

 Lammikkovalas wrote:
Oh, there's a Smurf in the cover of the new codex. What a surprise!

You are playing codex: ultramarines and the chapters that follow the ultramarines' book, and complain about there being an ultramarine on the cover?


Some people...

Its a sarge, not a basic Tac.

(Also, BA are Codex compliant too, but don't have a UM on the front)

Bharring wrote:
Its a sarge, not a basic Tac.

(Also, BA are Codex compliant too, but don't have a UM on the front)

They pretend to be codex compliant, while secretly having an ever growing company of lunatics and berserkers.

That, and it's codex: blood angels. That'd be like complaining there's no flesh tearer on the front, or no angel of redemption on the front of codex: dark Angels.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
It'd be nice if Dreads got the MC treatment but I doubt it.

Yeah. I have a baseball team worth of Dreads that I'd like to use again.

The cover is fine. Ultramarines are probably the most popular chapter from the standard Codex: Space Marines. I have no problem with them on the cover.

 kronk wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
It'd be nice if Dreads got the MC treatment but I doubt it.

Yeah. I have a baseball team worth of Dreads that I'd like to use again.

The cover is fine. Ultramarines are probably the most popular chapter from the standard Codex: Space Marines. I have no problem with them on the cover.

if by popular you mean universally loathed?

New Codex cover just looks too....bright.

We've had dark and gloomy for everything...and suddenly this bright and shiny cover that's going to look really out of place with contrast. Especially if it has a black spine like the others. It'd be like being visually assaulted by a zebra.

UltraMarines are the greatest of all the Space Marines.

We March for Macragge!!!!!!

I wish they had gone with a veteran like the Blood Angels cover. The white on blue is less jarring than the red on blue. Still, this cover isn't terrible. Would have liked him to have a Grav Pistol instead of a plain bolt pistol.

The bunch of you have much better sense of esthetics than I do.

I am now concerned why I do not care one iota about the cover and only if some kind of fundamental change will happen with the space marines or will it be same old thing with a few new little add-ons with high enough points cost to not matter.

Just wondering what gets dusted off and what gets thrown into the closet this time.

Or worse, it is so bad I throw the whole lot in there and go play something else.
Notice the scenario of getting "all fired up" by the new codex to be excited about 40k is a rather forlorn hope.

I think I just made it headcannon that the Adeptus Astartes is always produced with a picture of an UM Tac on the cover.

And other legions' decendants complain to this day that the UltraMarine book they claim to follow has an UltraMarine on it!

(That said, the last book didn't feel too UM-centric to me.)

Rereading what the White Dwarf has to say about the Gladius Strike Force, it definitely says you field a Demi-Company (Captain or Chaplain, 1 Command, 3 Tactical, 1 Assault, 1 Devastator, 1 Dreadnought) and then bolt on additional formations from there, such as Terminators, some Vindicators, or a Thunderfire Cannon. I am okay with this, though now I need to get one of those new Assault Squads and another Tactical Squad if I want to field it. Will probably just stick with a CAD unless something awesome comes with using a GSF.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and of course the cover is an Ultramarine, what else would it be? Definitely not something to lose sleep over.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rereading what the White Dwarf has to say about the Gladius Strike Force, it definitely says you field a Demi-Company (Captain or Chaplain, 1 Command, 3 Tactical, 1 Assault, 1 Devastator, 1 Dreadnought) and then bolt on additional formations from there, such as Terminators, some Vindicators, or a Thunderfire Cannon. I am okay with this, though now I need to get one of those new Assault Squads and another Tactical Squad if I want to field it. Will probably just stick with a CAD unless something awesome comes with using a GSF.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and of course the cover is an Ultramarine, what else would it be? Definitely not something to lose sleep over.

That’s a chunk of points for a base detachment. Probably to the tune of 1,250 to field it as anything other then just a minimum tax. Under current points, that is; although they seem unlikely to change significantly if the AM are to be a gauge. Although if they go with the toys for free bonus like the BA vet formation, that frees up a lot. It should make for a well balanced TAC list, just not a lot of space left for extras in a 1,500 point list.

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rereading what the White Dwarf has to say about the Gladius Strike Force, it definitely says you field a Demi-Company (Captain or Chaplain, 1 Command, 3 Tactical, 1 Assault, 1 Devastator, 1 Dreadnought) and then bolt on additional formations from there, such as Terminators, some Vindicators, or a Thunderfire Cannon. I am okay with this, though now I need to get one of those new Assault Squads and another Tactical Squad if I want to field it. Will probably just stick with a CAD unless something awesome comes with using a GSF.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and of course the cover is an Ultramarine, what else would it be? Definitely not something to lose sleep over.

That’s a chunk of points for a base detachment. Probably to the tune of 1,250 to field it as anything other then just a minimum tax. Under current points, that is; although they seem unlikely to change significantly if the AM are to be a gauge. Although if they go with the toys for free bonus like the BA vet formation, that frees up a lot. It should make for a well balanced TAC list, just not a lot of space left for extras in a 1,500 point list.

Yeah, if I run one in my current setup, I am looking at 1350 pts right off the bat, let alone with any toys added in. Hopefully it is a little less strict than it looks.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 pretre wrote:
What about complaining about complaining about complaining?

I wasn't complaining though, I was asking a question in a way that pointed out a hypocrisy. Hashtag semantics are fun

I wasn't saying you were complaining. I was asking a question in a way that pointed out hypocrisy.

Except I displayed no hypocrisy, so your statement cannot be correct.

He didn't say you were being hypocricital.