My WD came through the post earlier... fantastic read, lovely pictures! The last issue on the shelf was from six years ago - so much has changed since then! Glad to be back

 oni wrote:
Not related... But I see plastic Ultramarines Honour Guard in our future.

Source?

I’d be all over that like ugly on an ape, but haven’t seen anything that suggests it. I’d take a blurry pic or a friend of a friend reference.

You can never have to many honor guard.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Which would be a perfectly reasonable stance to take with any user that displays what someone else finds annoying habits, if the problem user hadn't already been publicly asked by legitimate moderators to curb the behaviour, publicly apologised, then carried right on with the same behaviour.

For months.

What you may see as bullying is, at this point, simply people reaching the limits of their patience having attempted to be polite in the first instance, and while you're quite correct that young people may be using the board, users that have been registered since 2012 can only be so young, and can certainly be old enough to moderate their behaviour when explicitly asked to do so.

But this is all off topic...

When it was mentioned you don't know the persons background, they may mean that they are talking about people potentially with learning difficulties, who don't actually realise they are being annoying to you.

 Nevelon wrote:

 oni wrote:
Not related... But I see plastic Ultramarines Honour Guard in our future.

Source?

I’d be all over that like ugly on an ape, but haven’t seen anything that suggests it. I’d take a blurry pic or a friend of a friend reference.

You can never have to many honor guard.

Sounded more like a prediction than an actual Rumour.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Which would be a perfectly reasonable stance to take with any user that displays what someone else finds annoying habits, if the problem user hadn't already been publicly asked by legitimate moderators to curb the behaviour, publicly apologised, then carried right on with the same behaviour.

For months.

What you may see as bullying is, at this point, simply people reaching the limits of their patience having attempted to be polite in the first instance, and while you're quite correct that young people may be using the board, users that have been registered since 2012 can only be so young, and can certainly be old enough to moderate their behaviour when explicitly asked to do so.

But this is all off topic...

When it was mentioned you don't know the persons background, they may mean that they are talking about people potentially with learning difficulties, who don't actually realise they are being annoying to you.

It's a historic problem going back some time, and it has been explained to the user that there's an issue on multiple occasions by multiple users in multiple threads (including moderators.)

The Venn diagram that shows a group of people with difficulties that are competent enough to do something as considered as write a post on an Internet forum, not something that just happens spontaneously like it may do verbally, is able to write and spell fairly coherently while keeping what they post loosely on topic and acknowledge and apologise when they're informed their behaviour isn't necessarily what is expected and still be compelled to keep doing it is going to have a really small overlap. So small that the balance of probability suggests that probably isn't the reason.

If Lightking does indeed inhabit such a unique set of criteria, then, rather than simply apologise and keep doing it, then I think they should contact the mod team privately so they can take steps to allow everyone to coexist.

But this is all off topic...

When ya had a reaaaaaally day in work followed my train cancellations whilst in freezing weather and you ready to burst a fuse and you see the WD packaging waiting for you at the door........

Aaannnnndd....relax.

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/03/01/heroic-saviour-didnt-even-need-to-use-his-sword/

Regimental standard speaks of Cypher.

Also, seeing as guilliman can't take off his armor, I'd bet Alpahrius' ass that they just went and sawed off the head and placed it into a robot body, like Futurama's Nixon. Also, Celestine sounds like a rabid fangirl.

This would go like follows:

guilliman wakes up

"Salutes, my liege, I'm Marneus Calgar, your chapter master!"

"We are being attacked, it seems."

"It pains me to say so, my liege... the fell forces of chaos are assaulting our stronghold."

"Oh Guilliman, you are a gift to all mankind."

"Um, yes, as you say... now really we need to make haste and head for-"

"Here, have this Iron Halo. If only it could match your majesty."

"Right, thank you most kindly... Calgar, who is this woman?"

"She's saint celestine, an imperial saint, but that doesn't matter now. Action matters. My liege, I hope you're feeling confortable in your cyborg body, because we had to burn the original."

"You did WHAT!?

So when was cypher and girlyman coming out? i really wana take a gander at cyphers sprue like really badly.

Lord Kragan wrote:
https://regimental-standard.com/2017/03/01/heroic-saviour-didnt-even-need-to-use-his-sword/

Regimental standard speaks of Cypher.

Also, seeing as guilliman can't take off his armor, I'd bet Alpahrius' ass that they just went and sawed off the head and placed it into a robot body, like Futurama's Nixon. Also, Celestine sounds like a rabid fangirl.

This would go like follows:

guilliman wakes up

"Salutes, my liege, I'm Marneus Calgar, your chapter master!"

"We are being attacked, it seems."

"It pains me to say so, my liege... the fell forces of chaos are assaulting our stronghold."

"Oh Guilliman, you are a gift to all mankind."

"Um, yes, as you say... now really we need to make haste and head for-"

"Here, have this Iron Halo. If only it could match your majesty."

"Right, thank you most kindly... Calgar, who is this woman?"

"She's saint celestine, an imperial saint, but that doesn't matter now. Action matters. My liege, I hope you're feeling confortable in your cyborg body, because we had to burn the original."

"You did WHAT!?

is Regimental Standard run by GW or is it a fan site?

LightKing wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
https://regimental-standard.com/2017/03/01/heroic-saviour-didnt-even-need-to-use-his-sword/

Regimental standard speaks of Cypher.

Also, seeing as guilliman can't take off his armor, I'd bet Alpahrius' ass that they just went and sawed off the head and placed it into a robot body, like Futurama's Nixon. Also, Celestine sounds like a rabid fangirl.

This would go like follows:

guilliman wakes up

"Salutes, my liege, I'm Marneus Calgar, your chapter master!"

"We are being attacked, it seems."

"It pains me to say so, my liege... the fell forces of chaos are assaulting our stronghold."

"Oh Guilliman, you are a gift to all mankind."

"Um, yes, as you say... now really we need to make haste and head for-"

"Here, have this Iron Halo. If only it could match your majesty."

"Right, thank you most kindly... Calgar, who is this woman?"

"She's saint celestine, an imperial saint, but that doesn't matter now. Action matters. My liege, I hope you're feeling confortable in your cyborg body, because we had to burn the original."

"You did WHAT!?

is Regimental Standard run by GW or is it a fan site?

Lightking's next question: are people mean to me or am I making myself a target?

LightKing wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
https://regimental-standard.com/2017/03/01/heroic-saviour-didnt-even-need-to-use-his-sword/

Regimental standard speaks of Cypher.

Also, seeing as guilliman can't take off his armor, I'd bet Alpahrius' ass that they just went and sawed off the head and placed it into a robot body, like Futurama's Nixon. Also, Celestine sounds like a rabid fangirl.

This would go like follows:

guilliman wakes up

"Salutes, my liege, I'm Marneus Calgar, your chapter master!"

"We are being attacked, it seems."

"It pains me to say so, my liege... the fell forces of chaos are assaulting our stronghold."

"Oh Guilliman, you are a gift to all mankind."

"Um, yes, as you say... now really we need to make haste and head for-"

"Here, have this Iron Halo. If only it could match your majesty."

"Right, thank you most kindly... Calgar, who is this woman?"

"She's saint celestine, an imperial saint, but that doesn't matter now. Action matters. My liege, I hope you're feeling confortable in your cyborg body, because we had to burn the original."

"You did WHAT!?

is Regimental Standard run by GW or is it a fan site?

If you click on the link and the part where it says "Legal Stuff" it tells you explicitly it is an official Game Workshop community site. You should really take some of the advice people have told you to heart and do your research before asking easily answered questions.

 oni wrote:
Not related... But I see plastic Ultramarines Honour Guard in our future.

I would be okay with plastic Honour Guard if they weren't Chapter exclusive. Also, if they did that, they would need to make a plastic Calgar since his model comes with the Honour Guard.

 Grimskul wrote:

LightKing wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
https://regimental-standard.com/2017/03/01/heroic-saviour-didnt-even-need-to-use-his-sword/

Regimental standard speaks of Cypher.

Also, seeing as guilliman can't take off his armor, I'd bet Alpahrius' ass that they just went and sawed off the head and placed it into a robot body, like Futurama's Nixon. Also, Celestine sounds like a rabid fangirl.

This would go like follows:

guilliman wakes up

"Salutes, my liege, I'm Marneus Calgar, your chapter master!"

"We are being attacked, it seems."

"It pains me to say so, my liege... the fell forces of chaos are assaulting our stronghold."

"Oh Guilliman, you are a gift to all mankind."

"Um, yes, as you say... now really we need to make haste and head for-"

"Here, have this Iron Halo. If only it could match your majesty."

"Right, thank you most kindly... Calgar, who is this woman?"

"She's saint celestine, an imperial saint, but that doesn't matter now. Action matters. My liege, I hope you're feeling confortable in your cyborg body, because we had to burn the original."

"You did WHAT!?

is Regimental Standard run by GW or is it a fan site?

If you click on the link and the part where it says "Legal Stuff" it tells you explicitly it is an official Game Workshop community site. You should really take some of the advice people have told you to heart and do your research before asking easily answered questions.

it wasn't linking to the website, sorry



look, I tend to ask alot of questions "trivial" or not because i am interested in learning more, I don't need the armchair psychologists

if a MOD pm me's that I should stop asking these questions and take it down a notch, I WILL

but as for other people, if you don't like the question, don't respond

simple as that really

LightKing wrote:


look, I tend to ask alot of questions "trivial" or not because i am interested in learning more, I don't need the armchair psychologists

if a MOD pm me's that I should stop asking these questions and take it down a notch, I WILL

but as for other people, if you don't like the question, don't respond

simple as that really

This is not really a thread for asking questions mate, thats why people are getting miffed off.

Try here

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/31.page

or here

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/69.page

People are also getting pretty miffed because the questions asked are usually of such a trivial nature that 5 minutes of googling and 2 minutes of reading comprehension could solve them. If one wants to learn the basics of the setting, then the wh40k wikia and Lexicanum, apart from the rulebooks that is, are the first place to go.

fair enough, i won't ask fluff questions on this thread anymore unless their about specifics of the release

LightKing wrote:

look, I tend to ask alot of questions "trivial" or not because i am interested in learning more, I don't need the armchair psychologists

if a MOD pm me's that I should stop asking these questions and take it down a notch, I WILL

but as for other people, if you don't like the question, don't respond

simple as that really

Let me quote myself from November...

Perhaps if you're struggling to understand stuff, try

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

Rather than asking a lot of what are fundamentally lore and background questions in News and Rumours.

You will likely not receive "a PM from a Mod," I've personally seen at least 2 in thread warnings to keep things on topic and not persistently ask tangentially related questions, which if not specifically aimed at you, could have only applied to you, Alpharius' last comment ITT can only be seen as confirmation the moderators are aware of your behaviour and are discouraging people from indulging you, and why do that if it's a desirable way to conduct yourself?

IME I'd say you're probably on the path towards sanctions for being persistently off topic, and as your comment about "armchair psychologists" seems to suggest you don't feel that there's any underlying reason that compels you to act the way you have been, I'd suggest you stop now for the sake of your own account if nothing else?

LightKing wrote:
fair enough, i won't ask fluff questions on this thread anymore unless their about specifics of the release

Thanks! You will likely get better and more answers to fluff questions if you ask in the 40k Background section.

FYI - please just hit the mod alert button if you feel someone is posting in the wrong thread/section, thanks!

some new rumors although some might of been speculated


http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2017/02/26/gathering-storm-iii-rise-primarch-leak-compilation/

Well it says that the GK is Stern, which we know is wrong, so how could the rest be right?

LightKing wrote:
some new rumors although some might of been speculated

Spoiler:

Last book is the Series
Character Trio Roboute Guilliman, Cypher and a Grey Knight Master (Stern)
Abaddon is likely to be killed during the last book, by Cypher with a Bolt Pistol
Crawl builds new Roboute Guilliman Armour using the Triaros Conveyor to sustain him from dying to original poison.
Roboute Guilliman has the Emperors sword either found by Trazyn or given to Roboute by the Emperor himself.
Cypher is finally revealed to be Farith Redloss , first captain of the Deathwing

Guilliman goes to Terra and is upset with the Custodes and blames them for everything that has happened to keep the Emperor oblivious to how different the Galaxy is 10,000 later by himself. Guilliman confronts the Emperor and is given to him the Flaming Sword. Guilliman becomes de-facto Emperor and sends the Custodes away to start to start a new Crusade and Age of the Emperor.

Cypher kills Abaddon and/or the Emperor, thus Roboute Guilliman will become the Emperor Incarnate, as the Emperor is destroyed and fragmented. Cypher will be at Guilliman’s side.

More Daemon Primarchs emerge from the expanding warp and Mortarion & Fulgrim lead a counter Crusade against Guilliam.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2017/02/26/gathering-storm-iii-rise-primarch-leak-compilation/

As it says in the quote, this a compilation of other leaks and rumors, not original content.

I feel like revealing Cypher's identity would be a major mistake for GW. He'd still be a super-dope gunslinging BA, but the mystery behind his being is gone. I don't think he's gonna be revealed, and to make Guilliman Emperor is rediculous. The moment any one of his brothers return, they will challenge his given position and another civil war will erupt. Besides, the Big E is the icon of the Imperium and to remove him like that will spark a lot of hate from fans imo.

The emperor needs to "die", because of the possibility of him being reborn as the star child

From natfka:

Triumviate of the Primarch - 90$
-3 Models, Guilliman, Cypher and Grand Master Voldus.
-Guilliman comes with the Armour of Fate, the Hand of Dominion and The Emperors Sword. All Friendly units can Reroll failed leadership checks. Guilliman has ALL command Traits.
-Cypher comes with Eternal warrior, fleet, infiltrate and shrouded
-Voldus hammer works as a conduit for his psychic powers

Gathering Storm: Rise of the Primarch - 50$
-Datasheets for the Triumvirate of the Primarch
- Formations to field the Fallen, the Grey Knights Bulwark of Purity, the Victrix Guard of the Ultramarines and the Triumvirate of the primarch
-Daemonic Adversaries - Special rules to field grey knights that are not daemons.

Last line about Daemonic Adversaries doesn't make sense - could be special rules to field grey knights against armies that are not daemons? Either way, can't wait to see some new Grey Knight formations (seriously hoping there's no 'Dreadknight Wing' though). Wonder what the hammer conduit could mean...

Sounds like RG might have all of the command warlord traits from the BRB. That's a fearsome 12" buff bubble!

If that is true, I need to get me some HH Tactical Squads to turn into Fallen Angels! If Guilliman really comes with all the Command traits, that is nuts.

Some Grey Knight Terminators to go with Grey Knight McHammer would be a good idea as well.

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:
I feel like revealing Cypher's identity would be a major mistake for GW. He'd still be a super-dope gunslinging BA, but the mystery behind his being is gone. I don't think he's gonna be revealed, and to make Guilliman Emperor is rediculous. The moment any one of his brothers return, they will challenge his given position and another civil war will erupt. Besides, the Big E is the icon of the Imperium and to remove him like that will spark a lot of hate from fans imo.

I agree, how I think it will go down for the Emperor part - Emps will make Guilliman Lord Commander of the Imperium and give him full control like he had before. Then Cypher will kill him ,initiating the Star Child prophesy. So Guilliman will rule only until Emperor returns to lead them again.

But my bigger qeustion is -

Defnitely picking up the book. Depending on how it's done this could be good or bad. Given the other 2 gathering storm books were good (better than end times anyway) this might work out. REvealing a long standing mystery can sometimes work out for the better.

This increased my interest in HH, it did not decrease it. If this leak about Cypher proves true I won't be dissapointed.

I don't mind campiness or tearing down of supposed "sacred houses", as long as you end up in an interesting place that allows for more interesting interaction between factions count me interested. Everyone is an donkey-cave towards everyone even themselves can get tiresome.

Captain Azrael wrote:

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:
I feel like revealing Cypher's identity would be a major mistake for GW. He'd still be a super-dope gunslinging BA, but the mystery behind his being is gone. I don't think he's gonna be revealed, and to make Guilliman Emperor is rediculous. The moment any one of his brothers return, they will challenge his given position and another civil war will erupt. Besides, the Big E is the icon of the Imperium and to remove him like that will spark a lot of hate from fans imo.

I agree, how I think it will go down for the Emperor part - Emps will make Guilliman Lord Commander of the Imperium and give him full control like he had before. Then Cypher will kill him ,initiating the Star Child prophesy. So Guilliman will rule only until Emperor returns to lead them again.

But my bigger qeustion is -

Spoiler:

why they cannot simply remove poison form Guilliman's body is the rumor about him staying in the armor is true?

casvalremdeikun wrote:

Spoiler:

Isn't the poison daemonic poison from Fulgrim? I imagine it is much more complicated than that.

As possibly non-nonsensical as it was, I think I preferred it when Guilliman was healing in stasis, somehow.

Maybe it was one of his secret Primarch powers - super (slow) regeneration?

 Alpharius wrote:

Captain Azrael wrote:

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:
I feel like revealing Cypher's identity would be a major mistake for GW. He'd still be a super-dope gunslinging BA, but the mystery behind his being is gone. I don't think he's gonna be revealed, and to make Guilliman Emperor is rediculous. The moment any one of his brothers return, they will challenge his given position and another civil war will erupt. Besides, the Big E is the icon of the Imperium and to remove him like that will spark a lot of hate from fans imo.

I agree, how I think it will go down for the Emperor part - Emps will make Guilliman Lord Commander of the Imperium and give him full control like he had before. Then Cypher will kill him ,initiating the Star Child prophesy. So Guilliman will rule only until Emperor returns to lead them again.

But my bigger qeustion is -

Spoiler:

why they cannot simply remove poison form Guilliman's body is the rumor about him staying in the armor is true?

casvalremdeikun wrote:

Spoiler:

Isn't the poison daemonic poison from Fulgrim? I imagine it is much more complicated than that.

As possibly non-nonsensical as it was, I think I preferred it when Guilliman was healing in stasis, somehow.

Maybe it was one of his secret Primarch powers - super (slow) regeneration?

And that is fine too. Perhaps the wound healed but the poison is still present?

guru wrote:
pic related

Spoiler:

Holy Terra
The capital World of the Imperium of Man, where the Emperor resides on the Golden Throne. It's a stagnant world of misery, suspicion, suffering and fear. It's a soul-crushing experience for Guilliman.

That image has made a mate of mine happy..

He is getting back into 40k and Red Corsairs is the army he has chosen so hopefully a nice formation or two will be in it for him

I was very surprised to find that Roboute Guilleman was sculpted by Seb Perpet in the new white dwarf. He's an excellent sculptor!

Then I saw this transformation in the painting guide, where you can see how some bizarre choices about the paint scheme take a perfectly noble Primarchial visage, and turn it into angry Joffrey Baratheon...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Captain Azrael wrote:

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:
I feel like revealing Cypher's identity would be a major mistake for GW. He'd still be a super-dope gunslinging BA, but the mystery behind his being is gone. I don't think he's gonna be revealed, and to make Guilliman Emperor is rediculous. The moment any one of his brothers return, they will challenge his given position and another civil war will erupt. Besides, the Big E is the icon of the Imperium and to remove him like that will spark a lot of hate from fans imo.

I agree, how I think it will go down for the Emperor part - Emps will make Guilliman Lord Commander of the Imperium and give him full control like he had before. Then Cypher will kill him ,initiating the Star Child prophesy. So Guilliman will rule only until Emperor returns to lead them again.

But my bigger qeustion is -

Spoiler:

why they cannot simply remove poison form Guilliman's body is the rumor about him staying in the armor is true?

casvalremdeikun wrote:

Spoiler:

Isn't the poison daemonic poison from Fulgrim? I imagine it is much more complicated than that.

As possibly non-nonsensical as it was, I think I preferred it when Guilliman was healing in stasis, somehow.

Maybe it was one of his secret Primarch powers - super (slow) regeneration?

And that is fine too. Perhaps the wound healed but the poison is still present?

Maybe like a Tony Stark type thing?

Poison is still there but the new machine has the power to only stall its progression?

TomWB wrote:
I was very surprised to find that Roboute Guilleman was sculpted by Seb Perpet in the new white dwarf. He's an excellent sculptor!

Then I saw this transformation in the painting guide, where you can see how some bizarre choices about the paint scheme take a perfectly noble Primarchial visage, and turn it into angry Joffrey Baratheon...

Holy moly. Great spot with this - his face is actually an excellent sculpt. That makeup though...

Looking forward to seeing how Duncan's face ends up in the painting guide. "Apply the lipstick, eyeshadow and blusher in two thin coats rather than one thick one..."

Captain Azrael wrote:

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:
I feel like revealing Cypher's identity would be a major mistake for GW. He'd still be a super-dope gunslinging BA, but the mystery behind his being is gone. I don't think he's gonna be revealed, and to make Guilliman Emperor is rediculous. The moment any one of his brothers return, they will challenge his given position and another civil war will erupt. Besides, the Big E is the icon of the Imperium and to remove him like that will spark a lot of hate from fans imo.

I agree, how I think it will go down for the Emperor part - Emps will make Guilliman Lord Commander of the Imperium and give him full control like he had before. Then Cypher will kill him ,initiating the Star Child prophesy. So Guilliman will rule only until Emperor returns to lead them again.

But my bigger qeustion is -

Spoiler:

why they cannot simply remove poison form Guilliman's body is the rumor about him staying in the armor is true?

My guess is

Just a guess have no idea how they are going to do it.

Davor wrote:

Captain Azrael wrote:

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:
I feel like revealing Cypher's identity would be a major mistake for GW. He'd still be a super-dope gunslinging BA, but the mystery behind his being is gone. I don't think he's gonna be revealed, and to make Guilliman Emperor is rediculous. The moment any one of his brothers return, they will challenge his given position and another civil war will erupt. Besides, the Big E is the icon of the Imperium and to remove him like that will spark a lot of hate from fans imo.

I agree, how I think it will go down for the Emperor part - Emps will make Guilliman Lord Commander of the Imperium and give him full control like he had before. Then Cypher will kill him ,initiating the Star Child prophesy. So Guilliman will rule only until Emperor returns to lead them again.

But my bigger qeustion is -

Spoiler:

why they cannot simply remove poison form Guilliman's body is the rumor about him staying in the armor is true?

My guess is

Spoiler:

When Gulliman is taken out of statis he dies instantly but is then revied, but since he is a Primarch it takes more to revive him, not so easy to do so that is why he needs his Darth Vader armour to keep him alive.

Just a guess have no idea how they are going to do it.

Excessive Praying to the Emperor

Like always...

Triaros Conveyor, you say?

Lol guy liner and lip gloss

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1784249325229032/?type=3&theater

Well, anyone else just add Voldus to their deadpool?

So is this the last volume? Seems like this dang storm's been gathering forever!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So is this the last volume? Seems like this dang storm's been gathering forever!

Three months. Too long for actual storms... then again. I highly doubt a regular storm would blow planets or rain down plastic.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So is this the last volume? Seems like this dang storm's been gathering forever!

All of three months is forever? Apparently this is the last volume of the Gathering Storm. But rumors have been that Gathering Storm is part one of a three part macro-series, with each part having three parts to it. I don't see that happening though.

Joyboozer wrote:
Well, anyone else just add Voldus to their deadpool?

I dun no but if he's specificly noted as the mighiest psyker of the Grey Knights that IS intreasting, that proably makes him a contender for mightest Psyker in the Imperium (other then ya know the emperor) will be intreasting to see his stats. I kinda hope GW avoids making him ML4 though

About the image above - is he talking about Draigo?

BrianDavion wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
Well, anyone else just add Voldus to their deadpool?

I dun no but if he's specificly noted as the mighiest psyker of the Grey Knights that IS intreasting, that proably makes him a contender for mightest Psyker in the Imperium (other then ya know the emperor) will be intreasting to see his stats. I kinda hope GW avoids making him ML4 though

If they make the Mightiest Psyker of a Chapter of Mightiest Psykers ML3, that would be pretty frickin' stupid, wouldn't it? Unless he gets some sort of weird combination of Tigurius's and Loth's special rules, or never perils like Magnus, he will probably be ML 4.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
Well, anyone else just add Voldus to their deadpool?

I dun no but if he's specificly noted as the mighiest psyker of the Grey Knights that IS intreasting, that proably makes him a contender for mightest Psyker in the Imperium (other then ya know the emperor) will be intreasting to see his stats. I kinda hope GW avoids making him ML4 though

If they make the Mightiest Psyker of a Chapter of Mightiest Psykers ML3, that would be pretty frickin' stupid, wouldn't it? Unless he gets some sort of weird combination of Tigurius's and Loth's special rules, or never perils like Magnus, he will probably be ML 4.

I dunno the Grey Knights are mighty sure, but there's no proof that their most powerful would BE the most powerful, I agree likely ML4 though, still I could see him being a bit like Tigerous in that "yeah sure I'm only ML3 but I have some special rules that make me arguably better then ML4"

 ProtoClone wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Captain Azrael wrote:

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:
I feel like revealing Cypher's identity would be a major mistake for GW. He'd still be a super-dope gunslinging BA, but the mystery behind his being is gone. I don't think he's gonna be revealed, and to make Guilliman Emperor is rediculous. The moment any one of his brothers return, they will challenge his given position and another civil war will erupt. Besides, the Big E is the icon of the Imperium and to remove him like that will spark a lot of hate from fans imo.

I agree, how I think it will go down for the Emperor part - Emps will make Guilliman Lord Commander of the Imperium and give him full control like he had before. Then Cypher will kill him ,initiating the Star Child prophesy. So Guilliman will rule only until Emperor returns to lead them again.

But my bigger qeustion is -

Spoiler:

why they cannot simply remove poison form Guilliman's body is the rumor about him staying in the armor is true?

casvalremdeikun wrote:

Spoiler:

Isn't the poison daemonic poison from Fulgrim? I imagine it is much more complicated than that.

As possibly non-nonsensical as it was, I think I preferred it when Guilliman was healing in stasis, somehow.

Maybe it was one of his secret Primarch powers - super (slow) regeneration?

And that is fine too. Perhaps the wound healed but the poison is still present?

Maybe like a Tony Stark type thing?

Poison is still there but the new machine has the power to only stall its progression?

If they wanted it to make some kind of sense then it would be a case of them having removed the poison but the damage done was incurable, hence the need for a life support system in his armour.

 Captain Azrael wrote:
About the image above - is he talking about Draigo?

No.

It's someone talking about Voldus.

Only going to have the cash for either the book or the models this month. I am kind of torn because I really want both.

 Vash108 wrote:
Only going to have the cash for either the book or the models this month. I am kind of torn because I really want both.

I would go models. That way you can have them built and painted by the time you get the book that allows their use.

 reds8n wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1784249325229032/?type=3&theater

so he's more powerful than Draigo huh

TomWB wrote:
I was very surprised to find that Roboute Guilleman was sculpted by Seb Perpet in the new white dwarf. He's an excellent sculptor!

Then I saw this transformation in the painting guide, where you can see how some bizarre choices about the paint scheme take a perfectly noble Primarchial visage, and turn it into angry Joffrey Baratheon...

Oh man, I got such a laugh from this, thanks.

As a psyker, apparently yes, fighting in the trenches against a demon horde, probably not.

I do believe that this will all lead into the 8th edition......Guilliman assuming commander of the Imperium and launching a new crusade

as for Cypher killing the Emperor it remains to be seen

Verviedi wrote:Triaros Conveyor, you say?

Spoiler:

For a second I thought that was a Genestealer L.I.M.O.

I am interested to see how Cypher and the Fallen angels interact with the rest of the imperium in this. Also, is Cypher is now hanging with the new 'Emperor' where does that put the Dark Angels? I hope that there is some form of resolution there. I have been meaning to start a 30K Dark Angels army this year and now it looks like they might bleed over to 40K as well. Nice.

 Prodigalson wrote:
I am interested to see how Cypher and the Fallen angels interact with the rest of the imperium in this. Also, is Cypher is now hanging with the new 'Emperor' where does that put the Dark Angels? I hope that there is some form of resolution there. I have been meaning to start a 30K Dark Angels army this year and now it looks like they might bleed over to 40K as well. Nice.

Maybe they will form a new chapter all togehter

Darker Angels

I think we'll see legions coming back.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I think we'll see legions coming back.

Why would you think that, the guy in charge of the Imperium is the one that wrote the Codex that broke up the legions in the first place?

That is if all the speculation is correct and RG takes on some kind of leadership position...

I'm not convinved that the Legions really ever left. They just adopted different color schemes and broke apart. In the Beast Arises, we see that the Imperial Fists have a protocol built in to reform. Every time I read about Azrael, it is pretty obvious that he can get the other Chapters to do anything that needs doing, and that really the Dark Angels never really broke apart they just changed color schemes and lied about it (shocker). Also, if Gulliman (who accounts for what... at least 50% of all marine gene seed) told them to reform... we know how that would go I think. Marines would fall all over themselves to do whatever he needs done.

 vitki wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I think we'll see legions coming back.

Why would you think that, the guy in charge of the Imperium is the one that wrote the Codex that broke up the legions in the first place?

That is if all the speculation is correct and RG takes on some kind of leadership position...

Different circumstances 10000 years later though, isn't it? They only split cause Horus had so much power at his disposal.

 angelofvengeance wrote:


Different circumstances 10000 years later though, isn't it? They only split cause Horus had so much power at his disposal.

I'd have to go look it up, but I thought the reason the legions were split was to ensure that nobody in the future was able to wield the same amount of power as Horus.
Since Horus was gone by the time the Codex was written, it would have had no bearing on the power he had.

I'm not trying to turn this into an argument, I'm interested in your point of view. How do you think they might go back to legions? Would they re-integrate the second and subsequent foundings back in to the parent chapters or just start pumping up the recruitment of the ~1000 existing chapters?

 vitki wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:


Different circumstances 10000 years later though, isn't it? They only split cause Horus had so much power at his disposal.

I'd have to go look it up, but I thought the reason the legions were split was to ensure that nobody in the future was able to wield the same amount of power as Horus.
Since Horus was gone by the time the Codex was written, it would have had no bearing on the power he had.

I'm not trying to turn this into an argument, I'm interested in your point of view. How do you think they might go back to legions? Would they re-integrate the second and subsequent foundings back into the parent chapters or just start pumping up the recruitment of the ~1000 existing chapters?

Well, if you read the last few supplements that have come out, there's quite a few instances of the successor chapters helping out their legion of origin. So it seems like they might merge back together.

I think they would be more inclined to work as teams instead of one big legion.

But I guess it all depends on what Robute will do.

Urrrrrrgh hype for the finale of this book from Twitch. I really hope it doesn't get spoiled before release day.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Urrrrrrgh hype for the finale of this book from Twitch. I really hope it doesn't get spoiled before release day.

Yeah, when Andy said how ridiculous the end of this book is ... HNGGG, the hype. I can't wait to read this bad boy and I can't wait to read the moment Grayfax realizes she was wrong about Celestine too. That's gonna be a pretty big moment for her.

I liked Andy's comment about Celestine calling her a flying mutant thing and made me think about the Imperium and it's over zealous faith sometimes. What if we are just like the Flesh-eater Courts? That Celestine is just another warp beast under command of the now Pantheon God the Emperor but under our blind faith, we see this pure being of light, much like how the Flesh-Eater Courts actually see themselves as proud knights fighting for their magnificent leader when really, they're all just monsters.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 vitki wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I think we'll see legions coming back.

Why would you think that, the guy in charge of the Imperium is the one that wrote the Codex that broke up the legions in the first place?

That is if all the speculation is correct and RG takes on some kind of leadership position...

Different circumstances 10000 years later though, isn't it? They only split cause Horus had so much power at his disposal.

They were broken so that nobody, including Guillimann, couldn't be Horus 2. Would be pretty odd that he would suddenly just like that ignore his own decision.

Especially as for him it's not really 10,000 years. He remembers HH just like it just happened. He knows danger of individual having that much power.

GW writes so badly wouldn't surprise if they did that but sheesh that would be bad move.

I think, rather than reform the Legions of the Heresy era, we may see some Chapters rolled into each other as a result of getting their faces smashed in.

So the Chapter in the Codex sense will persist, but some of the more grievously wounded ones (thinking Blood Angels specifically, didn't they and their successors just get a mauling from the Nids?) will be smooshed together into something not a Chapter but not quite a Legion either.

@Tneva82: Yeah, but there's a difference between having control over a single Legion and having control over 9 Legions plus a load of other assets.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I think, rather than reform the Legions of the Heresy era, we may see some Chapters rolled into each other as a result of getting their faces smashed in.

So the Chapter in the Codex sense will persist, but some of the more grievously wounded ones (thinking Blood Angels specifically, didn't they and their successors just get a mauling from the Nids?) will be smooshed together into something not a Chapter but not quite a Legion either.

It would explain the sudden spate of books about the Scythes of the Emperor.

It strikes me as especially grimdark that Guillman, after having to lobby so hard to break up the legions into chapters, to the point of almost causing another civil war, would either have to swallow his pride and re-integrate the chapters into legions or watch the galaxy burn to much larger and centrally organized chaos marine legions.

Yeah. I could see that happening.

It would be cool, and right a few wrongs logistically wise (and also give a great side narrative with the revulsion of the High Lords at the idea) if RG admits maybe he was too zealous with the original marine chapter size and let them up their numbers to 10000 per chapter, with a huge recruitment drive by the chapters and some argy bargy about them being able to access their gene stock that is currently stored as the tithe.

It would be also great for the narrative if most chapters were allowed to do this, but certain chapters were not, the cursed founding anyone?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and then the inevitable side stories of mass failings and mutations within some chapters.

It would bring hope, but then be still grim dark.

Robot Ghoulman breaking up the legions was a power grab plain and simple. He was more than happy to start a fresh civil war if he did not get his way.

The smurfs never really broke up as none of there successors were more than a couple of systems away from ultramarr and all did and continue to be controlled by the boss smurf.

After making it to the table as a high lord he ensured that 80% of all new marines are of smurf stock and know it ensuring there loyalty to there spiritual liege.

Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

 godswildcard wrote:
It strikes me as especially grimdark that Guillman, after having to lobby so hard to break up the legions into chapters, to the point of almost causing another civil war, would either have to swallow his pride and re-integrate the chapters into legions or watch the galaxy burn to much larger and centrally organized chaos marine legions.

Yeah. I could see that happening.

It would be the fastest way for Dorn to return. He would appear out of nowhere ust to say "I TOLD YOU SO!"

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

I don't know if splitting up the legions into chapters is the problem with the IoM.

I think the problem is with the Highlords and how they have run things in the absence of the Emp, in the Emp's name.

I wonder if the major twist at the end is that RG takes the throne as Interim Emperor until further notice. Causing a lot of shock because here is the guy who split up the legions so there wasn't such a consolidation of power, taking a consolidation of power.

That in of itself might tear apart the IoM and reignite the Unification wars.

Wait, I've just thought of something. Ynnead or whoever it is brings the thousand son marines back from the 'dead' and their bodies return from crumbling/decomposing to regenerating whole, if only for a brief moment.

Obviously, asking about regenerating the big E is the most obvious play, but could they not do the same for good old Sanguinius, who's body or what's left of it is in a tomb on Baal?

Not saying I want to see this happen, but given the power the new Eldar players have, RG was not the only option possibly?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

Outrageous! Who would possibly suggest that any of the Emperor's primarchs could ever be traitors?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

It's not a conspiracy theory really just influenced by the old pre 500 book hh series fluff.
Grand papa smurf turned up with a mostly undamaged legion 24hrs after the siege was broken mumbling about not being able to find anywhere to park and bad weather. Russ calls him a pussy and wanted to know where he was when the fighting was getting done, Bob get's pissy and demands that all legions be broken up(Just some less than others). Dorn,Russ and Vulkan have reservations about taking advice from someone who missed the entire heresy but gulliman turns his ships guns on them and even together Dorn knows while they can take them it will gut the imperium so he stands down Bob gets rewarded with a position as a Lordof Terra for his "loyalty" well that was before wardian retcons and BL drivel changed it.

I think you've....misremembered some of the old Fluff there Sean!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

2 words: Hail Hydra

SeanDrake wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Luckily Fulgrim took him out before he could make his move and 10000 years of inbreeding has left the smurfs weakened by indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. You sound like a 1d4chan contributor.

What's next, Guilliman was a traitor that sat out the Heresy so he could swoop in and take the Imperium for himself?

It's not a conspiracy theory really just influenced by the old pre 500 book hh series fluff.
Grand papa smurf turned up with a mostly undamaged legion 24hrs after the siege was broken mumbling about not being able to find anywhere to park and bad weather. Russ calls him a pussy and wanted to know where he was when the fighting was getting done, Bob get's pissy and demands that all legions be broken up(Just some less than others). Dorn,Russ and Vulkan have reservations about taking advice from someone who missed the entire heresy but gulliman turns his ships guns on them and even together Dorn knows while they can take them it will gut the imperium so he stands down Bob gets rewarded with a position as a Lordof Terra for his "loyalty" well that was before wardian retcons and BL drivel changed it.

Wasn't that the DA? They sat out the fight to see which side came out on top.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Obviously, asking about regenerating the big E is the most obvious play, but could they not do the same for good old Sanguinius, who's body or what's left of it is in a tomb on Baal?

Of course I thought of it as well.

But you must bare in mind that Baal is currently under massive Tyranid invasion + like said earlier Primarchs are different kind of beings. It is a question would it work at all.

What I would prefer however is

But will it happen - it rests upon GW and their future plans. I doubt it but would like to read it.

 Captain Azrael wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Obviously, asking about regenerating the big E is the most obvious play, but could they not do the same for good old Sanguinius, who's body or what's left of it is in a tomb on Baal?

Of course I thought of it as well.

But you must bare in mind that Baal is currently under massive Tyranid invasion + like said earlier Primarchs are different kind of beings. It is a question would it work at all.

What I would prefer however is

Spoiler:

God Emperor resurrecting him with his God-like powers once he is released from his mortal shell. Imagine Sanguinius bursting out from his tomb just when Blood Angels are making their last stand with Dante, slaying Trygons left and right, now that would be epic read.

But will it happen - it rests upon GW and their future plans. I doubt it but would like to read it.

I think I'd prefer the possibility of it, the Eldar dangling it like a carrot in front of the Imperium (or just the blood angels) to get what they want, but never actually doing it, leave it as a possibility in the fluff that doesn't come to fruition.

I honestly believe Roboute will be the only loyalist primarch that comes back

This is all so disheartening. Alien witches resurrecting Primarchs and people are cheering. This is way worse than the infamous Necron fist bump. I have been a fan of 40K since the second edition, and I have never been this worries about the future of the game, not even close. I literally haven't touched a 40K mini since I first heard about this Primarch returning nonsense, and I'm afraid this is just the beginning of dismantling everything that made 40K cool. If we end up with Guilliman as the new Emperor, I'm probably done with 40K for good.

Crimson, how is it that disheartening? Nothing very out of character is happening. The Eldar do what they must to ensure their race's survival. If they've determined the IoM is no longer the biggest threat, why wouldn't they help set the IoM against that threat? Heck, even if they are the Eldar enjoy sowing conflict to distract people from attacking them.

 troa wrote:
Crimson, how is it that disheartening? Nothing very out of character is happening. The Eldar do what they must to ensure their race's survival. If they've determined the IoM is no longer the biggest threat, why wouldn't they help set the IoM against that threat? Heck, even if they are the Eldar enjoy sowing conflict to distract people from attacking them.

It is not the behaviour of the Eldar which is the problem.

In any case, I just wanted to vent, and this is not a discussion that will go anywhere. If people do not see how these events will lead to inevitable shift in the tone of the setting, then I will not be able to explain it to them (trust me, I have tried.)

 Crimson wrote:

 troa wrote:
Crimson, how is it that disheartening? Nothing very out of character is happening. The Eldar do what they must to ensure their race's survival. If they've determined the IoM is no longer the biggest threat, why wouldn't they help set the IoM against that threat? Heck, even if they are the Eldar enjoy sowing conflict to distract people from attacking them.

It is not the behaviour of the Eldar which is the problem.

In any case, I just wanted to vent, and this is not a discussion that will go anywhere. If people do not see how these events will lead to inevitable shift in the tone of the setting, then I will not be able to explain it to them (trust me, I have tried.)

Desperate times call for desperate actions.

The enemy of my enemy is my meat shield.

 Crimson wrote:
This is all so disheartening. Alien witches resurrecting Primarchs and people are cheering. This is way worse than the infamous Necron fist bump. I have been a fan of 40K since the second edition, and I have never been this worries about the future of the game, not even close. I literally haven't touched a 40K mini since I first heard about this Primarch returning nonsense, and I'm afraid this is just the beginning of dismantling everything that made 40K cool. If we end up with Guilliman as the new Emperor, I'm probably done with 40K for good.

I've only been around 40k since 3.0rd edition, not quite as venerable as you, but I absolutely love all the new stuff and think it is totally fine and fits with the 40k universe. Opinions!!

Allow me to use a picture to save Crimson 1000 or so words...



(I'm aware this isn't technically exactly right, but all the Happy Days ones are poor quality.)

 Crimson wrote:
This is all so disheartening. Alien witches resurrecting Primarchs and people are cheering. This is way worse than the infamous Necron fist bump. I have been a fan of 40K since the second edition, and I have never been this worries about the future of the game, not even close. I literally haven't touched a 40K mini since I first heard about this Primarch returning nonsense, and I'm afraid this is just the beginning of dismantling everything that made 40K cool. If we end up with Guilliman as the new Emperor, I'm probably done with 40K for good.

"So this is how the integrity of 40k's background dies... With thunderous applause."

*edit*

Wrong thread.

Ruin wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
This is all so disheartening. Alien witches resurrecting Primarchs and people are cheering. This is way worse than the infamous Necron fist bump. I have been a fan of 40K since the second edition, and I have never been this worries about the future of the game, not even close. I literally haven't touched a 40K mini since I first heard about this Primarch returning nonsense, and I'm afraid this is just the beginning of dismantling everything that made 40K cool. If we end up with Guilliman as the new Emperor, I'm probably done with 40K for good.

"So this is how the integrity of 40k's background dies... With thunderous applause."

"If you thought the background had any integrity left, you haven't been paying attention".

There is essentially two camps of Warhammer 40k fans

ones that want the lore to advance, the primarchs to return and all that good stuff


and then those, like Crimson (no offense Crimson) that are conservative, don't want change and want the setting to remain the same for ever.

I'm sorry Crimson, but we have already done that for decades now since the game came out, we needed new spice in the lore

 Kanluwen wrote:

It would explain the sudden spate of books about the Scythes of the Emperor.

Well at this stage in the timeline they would of had enough time to rebuild their strength after Hive Fleet Kraken ate their Fortress World and 90% of the Chapter

LightKing wrote:
There is essentially two camps of Warhammer 40k fans

ones that want the lore to advance, the primarchs to return and all that good stuff


and then those, like Crimson (no offense Crimson) that are conservative, don't want change and want the setting to remain the same for ever.

I'm sorry Crimson, but we have already done that for decades now since the game came out, we needed new spice in the lore

Personally I'd prefer that Black Library be the ones to advance the fluff, not the GW Studio.

Is there going to be a companion novel? I'd much prefer to read about this whole Gathering Storm saga in a proper novel, and not in the truncated poorly written fluff of a Codex.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Is there going to be a companion novel? I'd much prefer to read about this whole Gathering Storm saga in a proper novel, and not in the truncated poorly written fluff of a Codex.

The lack of companion novels does seem a bit strange.

I think there are risks with taking the story forward. There is a danger it becomes a bad cartoon where top knotted villains pop up to be defeated by the heroes month after month. There is a danger that the grandeur of factions like "the Imperium", "The Inquisition", "The Black Legion" etc just become subsumed into the actions and stories of a handful of individuals. That shrinks the setting rather than giving it life.

At the same time though I am glad they are moving forward because it gives something new. I don't understand the attraction of being stuck in amber where nothing changes, mysteries are never resolved, very few named people die and only planets invented for the purpose are won or lost.

LightKing wrote:
There is essentially two camps of Warhammer 40k fans

ones that want the lore to advance, the primarchs to return and all that good stuff


and then those, like Crimson (no offense Crimson) that are conservative, don't want change and want the setting to remain the same for ever.

I'm sorry Crimson, but we have already done that for decades now since the game came out, we needed new spice in the lore

Actually, I'd split it as people who recognise that 40K is a setting, a backdrop, and contains huge quantities of hitherto unexplored material that would allow continued releases for years to come, and those who have.. other ideas.

I stopped regularly playing 40K before some of you all were born. That game resembled nothing like the game that's played today. It went from grim, dark, wink to Grimdark(R). And yet the sun still rises and people still have fun playing the game.

If GW advances the timeline and makes the rules more accessible like AoS then I might be back into 40K. The sun will continue to rise either

i!

Been playing since 88, and seen the lore change so much over the years.. but I bloody love this as a plot piece.. about time the Imperium has a chance to grasp at the daylight.. even if it all backfires down the road.
So aye, not against the idea of Eldar helping out the Humans at all.. and tbh, there have been a good number of potential temp alliances over the years.. this is hardly new.. just the stakes in this one have never been bigger.

I have to admit I am really looking forward to seeing what the rest of the year brings to 40K.

It's kind of good that the Eldar did it rather than the Imperium just going "Oh, we figured it out and he's just back now, yay". Ynnead is unprecedented and it's better, narratively, to use that rather than an easy solution just popping up after 10,000 years (like if Cawl had just magically fixed him with the power of plot armour). It also means that they really owe the Eldar, which I'm sure many are uncomfortable with, and I'm sure "animated by foul xenos magicks" will be a plot hook eventually.

I welcome the plot progression.

When they originally ran the 13th Crusade, nothing really came from it and that was kind of disappointing. So it's pretty cool to see them go back and redo the story and make it actually push things along a little.

 ProtoClone wrote:
I welcome the plot progression.

When they originally ran the 13th Crusade, nothing really came from it and that was kind of disappointing. So it's pretty cool to see them go back and redo the story and make it actually push things along a little.

Didn't they retcon that old 13th Crusade campaign because they didn't like the result with Chaos winning? Kinda ironic that they've done a remake...and had Chaos win again.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:
I welcome the plot progression.

When they originally ran the 13th Crusade, nothing really came from it and that was kind of disappointing. So it's pretty cool to see them go back and redo the story and make it actually push things along a little.

Didn't they retcon that old 13th Crusade campaign because they didn't like the result with Chaos winning? Kinda ironic that they've done a remake...and had Chaos win again.

Wasn't it more like the 3rd war of Armageddon, where they ended that with 'The war continues'

But with this one they ended with the Chaos forces were pushed back... and now it has continued with them coming back for a 2nd charge (and winning) while several real world years have gone between these campaign events, it has only been a short time in storyline sense (at least by my understanding)

Any word on who the Grey Knight character is? Powers, etc?

He's the head of the Grey Knight Librarius and a newly promoted grand master. Other than that we got nothing so far really.

GodDamUser wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:
I welcome the plot progression.

When they originally ran the 13th Crusade, nothing really came from it and that was kind of disappointing. So it's pretty cool to see them go back and redo the story and make it actually push things along a little.

Didn't they retcon that old 13th Crusade campaign because they didn't like the result with Chaos winning? Kinda ironic that they've done a remake...and had Chaos win again.

Wasn't it more like the 3rd war of Armageddon, where they ended that with 'The war continues'

But with this one they ended with the Chaos forces were pushed back... and now it has continued with them coming back for a 2nd charge (and winning) while several real world years have gone between these campaign events, it has only been a short time in storyline sense (at least by my understanding)

When 13th Crusade originally ran, Chaos had the winning side. What did they get? A small mention that Cadia had been battered but beat back the crusade.

Don't know if this is a reboot or just Crusade the 13th Part 2 but it's nice to finally have some plot development.

TomWB wrote:
I was very surprised to find that Roboute Guilleman was sculpted by Seb Perpet in the new white dwarf. He's an excellent sculptor!

Then I saw this transformation in the painting guide, where you can see how some bizarre choices about the paint scheme take a perfectly noble Primarchial visage, and turn it into angry Joffrey Baratheon...

Roboute Horror Picture show!
It's astounding time is fleeting, madness takes its toll.

Well GW has changed the fluff many times over the last 20 years, some with it i don't agree with, but in my 40k world the fluff is the way i like it

Tyel wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Is there going to be a companion novel? I'd much prefer to read about this whole Gathering Storm saga in a proper novel, and not in the truncated poorly written fluff of a Codex.

The lack of companion novels does seem a bit strange.

I think there are risks with taking the story forward. There is a danger it becomes a bad cartoon where top knotted villains pop up to be defeated by the heroes month after month. There is a danger that the grandeur of factions like "the Imperium", "The Inquisition", "The Black Legion" etc just become subsumed into the actions and stories of a handful of individuals. That shrinks the setting rather than giving it life.

At the same time though I am glad they are moving forward because it gives something new. I don't understand the attraction of being stuck in amber where nothing changes, mysteries are never resolved, very few named people die and only planets invented for the purpose are won or lost.

If Age of Sigmar is any indication the actual writing of the campaign books will be campy but the overall plot will be solid. The last major story thread ended with a nice mix of wins and losses for the various sides. Perhaps more importantly while the good guys have their superheroes that save the day, the equivalent characters for other major factions do the same for their respective sides (the big bad of chaos in particular crushes everything with no contest wherever he shows up, even killing main good-guy characters to do so).

 Azreal13 wrote:

LightKing wrote:
There is essentially two camps of Warhammer 40k fans

ones that want the lore to advance, the primarchs to return and all that good stuff


and then those, like Crimson (no offense Crimson) that are conservative, don't want change and want the setting to remain the same for ever.

I'm sorry Crimson, but we have already done that for decades now since the game came out, we needed new spice in the lore

Actually, I'd split it as people who recognise that 40K is a setting, a backdrop, and contains huge quantities of hitherto unexplored material that would allow continued releases for years to come, and those who have.. other ideas.

It's no use, Az. Anyone who appreciates having an endless, precariously balanced setting rather than a story focused on less than a dozen characters will soon be self-selected out of the playerbase.

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Spoiler:

 Azreal13 wrote:

LightKing wrote:
There is essentially two camps of Warhammer 40k fans

ones that want the lore to advance, the primarchs to return and all that good stuff


and then those, like Crimson (no offense Crimson) that are conservative, don't want change and want the setting to remain the same for ever.

I'm sorry Crimson, but we have already done that for decades now since the game came out, we needed new spice in the lore

Actually, I'd split it as people who recognise that 40K is a setting, a backdrop, and contains huge quantities of hitherto unexplored material that would allow continued releases for years to come, and those who have.. other ideas.

It's no use, Az. Anyone who appreciates having an endless, precariously balanced setting rather than a story focused on less than a dozen characters will soon be self-selected out of the playerbase.

I'm well aware, the content of the posts between the post you quoted and your own shows which way the wind's blowing I think. It's such a shame. Because you get this sort of thinking..

NinthMusketeer wrote:

Tyel wrote:

Spoiler:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Is there going to be a companion novel? I'd much prefer to read about this whole Gathering Storm saga in a proper novel, and not in the truncated poorly written fluff of a Codex.

The lack of companion novels does seem a bit strange.

I think there are risks with taking the story forward. There is a danger it becomes a bad cartoon where top knotted villains pop up to be defeated by the heroes month after month. There is a danger that the grandeur of factions like "the Imperium", "The Inquisition", "The Black Legion" etc just become subsumed into the actions and stories of a handful of individuals. That shrinks the setting rather than giving it life.

At the same time though I am glad they are moving forward because it gives something new. I don't understand the attraction of being stuck in amber where nothing changes, mysteries are never resolved, very few named people die and only planets invented for the purpose are won or lost.

If Age of Sigmar is any indication the actual writing of the campaign books will be campy but the overall plot will be solid. The last major story thread ended with a nice mix of wins and losses for the various sides. Perhaps more importantly while the good guys have their superheroes that save the day, the equivalent characters for other major factions do the same for their respective sides (the big bad of chaos in particular crushes everything with no contest wherever he shows up, even killing main good-guy characters to do so).

You know why TV shows have a shelf life? Or why movie sequels are almost always inferior to their predecessors? It's because if you have to work with a narrative, you either have to offer resolution or keep one-upping previous events. If you don't offer resolution, the audience gets bored and frustrated, if you continue to go bigger, you eventually cross into parody.

GW are already bordering on the latter, if they keep moving things forward (even if this is a single step for now) where can you see the game in 3 years? 10? 40K has lasted 30 years inhabiting, give or take, the same snap shot of time. It might seem exciting to have these long hinted at events actually occur in the fluff and in game, but ultimately what GW have done by moving the narrative forward rather than diving deeper into the universe is start a stopwatch that's going to keep counting down for their customers. What was a sandbox for the gamer and designers to play in is becoming a vector headed towards a conclusion. When your stated aim is to make the best toy soldiers in the world and keep doing it forever, starting your golden goose IP on a journey towards a conclusion isn't the best idea.

Shareholders.

 Azreal13 wrote:

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Spoiler:

 Azreal13 wrote:

LightKing wrote:
There is essentially two camps of Warhammer 40k fans

ones that want the lore to advance, the primarchs to return and all that good stuff


and then those, like Crimson (no offense Crimson) that are conservative, don't want change and want the setting to remain the same for ever.

I'm sorry Crimson, but we have already done that for decades now since the game came out, we needed new spice in the lore

Actually, I'd split it as people who recognise that 40K is a setting, a backdrop, and contains huge quantities of hitherto unexplored material that would allow continued releases for years to come, and those who have.. other ideas.

It's no use, Az. Anyone who appreciates having an endless, precariously balanced setting rather than a story focused on less than a dozen characters will soon be self-selected out of the playerbase.

I'm well aware, the content of the posts between the post you quoted and your own shows which way the wind's blowing I think. It's such a shame. Because you get this sort of thinking..

NinthMusketeer wrote:

Tyel wrote:

Spoiler:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Is there going to be a companion novel? I'd much prefer to read about this whole Gathering Storm saga in a proper novel, and not in the truncated poorly written fluff of a Codex.

The lack of companion novels does seem a bit strange.

I think there are risks with taking the story forward. There is a danger it becomes a bad cartoon where top knotted villains pop up to be defeated by the heroes month after month. There is a danger that the grandeur of factions like "the Imperium", "The Inquisition", "The Black Legion" etc just become subsumed into the actions and stories of a handful of individuals. That shrinks the setting rather than giving it life.

At the same time though I am glad they are moving forward because it gives something new. I don't understand the attraction of being stuck in amber where nothing changes, mysteries are never resolved, very few named people die and only planets invented for the purpose are won or lost.

If Age of Sigmar is any indication the actual writing of the campaign books will be campy but the overall plot will be solid. The last major story thread ended with a nice mix of wins and losses for the various sides. Perhaps more importantly while the good guys have their superheroes that save the day, the equivalent characters for other major factions do the same for their respective sides (the big bad of chaos in particular crushes everything with no contest wherever he shows up, even killing main good-guy characters to do so).

You know why TV shows have a shelf life? Or why movie sequels are almost always inferior to their predecessors? It's because if you have to work with a narrative, you either have to offer resolution or keep one-upping previous events. If you don't offer resolution, the audience gets bored and frustrated, if you continue to go bigger, you eventually cross into parody.

GW are already bordering on the latter, if they keep moving things forward (even if this is a single step for now) where can you see the game in 3 years? 10? 40K has lasted 30 years inhabiting, give or take, the same snap shot of time. It might seem exciting to have these long hinted at events actually occur in the fluff and in game, but ultimately what GW have done by moving the narrative forward rather than diving deeper into the universe is start a stopwatch that's going to keep counting down for their customers. What was a sandbox for the gamer and designers to play in is becoming a vector headed towards a conclusion. When your stated aim is to make the best toy soldiers in the world and keep doing it forever, starting your golden goose IP on a journey towards a conclusion isn't the best idea.

Ah, my apologies. I missed where your preference was right because wargames are TV shows.

I welcome the plot progression, I've been playing since 2nd edition and I think it's a good way for armies to progress, GW as a company need to release new things weather it's units or races in to the game so people buy more products, new and existing customers alike and Adding a new unit to a codex and going "oh we had these all along" seems kind of dumb to me which they have done in the past. No sales, no money, no money, no more games workshop and then we're stuck with a stagnant rule set and trying to get hold of miniatures from eBay.

Nick Fury shouldn't be played by a black man.
Heath Ledger will be a terrible Joker.

Blah. Blah. Blah. We've heard the flailing of purists before.

Would be great if we could get a full 'fallen' list that doesn't require cypher. But I am sure we will get a revised cypher data slate built in this gathering storm.

They are EXPANDING THE SETTING. These stories haven't answered anything, they have only broadened the range of play to include new elements of the game.

Do these books involve large plot points surrounding certain figures? Yes.

Did it also involve new narratives and interesting situations within the current setting to use as fodder for future tabletop battles? Absolutely!

Tyranids and daemons running amok in the dark eldar cities, eldar on the brink of civil war, the Inquisition, eclesiarchy, and tech priests pushing the envelope with one another while all striving for the same goal. These are all excellent, broad, and expandable plot points that will do nothing but add to the overall appeal of the game.

Major players affecting the overall scope and theme of the narrative has always been the case. To state otherwise is tantamount to claiming that Macharius' crusade of the western side of the galaxy or Vect conquering commoragh somehow made the game a story instead of a setting.

If it was a story, you would have no choice but to play the missions from these books. There is a story within the setting that is beginning to affect the universe, in the same way every single story that has ever been told by GW has always affected the universe.

Enjoy it, or ignore it, but it is what it is. An expanding setting, not a story.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
@Tneva82: Yeah, but there's a difference between having control over a single Legion and having control over 9 Legions plus a load of other assets.

Even one legion with all the stuff it had can do tons of damage. Codex Astartes was created specifically to ensure you need mass mutiny from many different factions which makes rebellion harder as you risk tipping off too soon allowing Imperium to find out. Say space marine commander even hints toward that to Imperial Navy commander he needs to do major rebellion. Imperial Navy commander plays along but in secret tips his plans off...

Again: Guillimann remembers HH just like it just had happened. He knows the reasons why he did what he did. Why he would suddenly decide against it?

Would be very uncharacteristic and ergo bad writing. Which is why GW probably does it. So far writing has been subpar fandex quality.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Ah, my apologies. I missed where your preference was right because wargames are TV shows.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Nick Fury shouldn't be played by a black man.
Heath Ledger will be a terrible Joker.

Blah. Blah. Blah. We've heard the flailing of purists before.

Interesting. Both you posted, but neither of you said anything.

They both pointed out that the things being brought up to "prove" that plot advancing is a bad thing don't make sense.

40k isn't a TV show. The setting is undergoing development during its 30th year.

Whenever anything happens in any franchise people whinge

Both relevant points.

A plot is still a plot, it doesn't matter the medium.

I dont mind people disagreeing with me, but I'm afraid I am going to insist on them displaying comprehension of my argument while doing so.

Wargames being nothing like a TV show is absolutely, completely, irrelevant to the point I was making.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
They are EXPANDING THE SETTING.

Adding the Necrons was expanding the setting. Adding Tau was expanding the setting.

Advancing the plot =/= expanding the setting.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
They are EXPANDING THE SETTING.

Adding the Necrons was expanding the setting. Adding Tau was expanding the setting.

Advancing the plot =/= expanding the setting.

This.

Expanding the setting is adding new races or characters backgrounds while everything else remains the same in the long run ( status quo if you will ).

Here they destroyed one of the most important worlds in the setting, changing the balance of the two major factions. Then they shattered two others ( Eldar and Dark Eldar ) and finally they are bringing back a demigod who has the power to turn one of the major and most powerful faction into OP powerhouse that could crush all opposition before them. And that is without adding potential spoilers for the 8'th edition.

This is everything but expansion of the setting. if anything I would call it evolution of the setting to a new level ( Warhammer 41k ).

 Azreal13 wrote:



You know why TV shows have a shelf life? Or why movie sequels are almost always inferior to their predecessors? It's because if you have to work with a narrative, you either have to offer resolution or keep one-upping previous events. If you don't offer resolution, the audience gets bored and frustrated, if you continue to go bigger, you eventually cross into parody.

GW are already bordering on the latter, if they keep moving things forward (even if this is a single step for now) where can you see the game in 3 years? 10? 40K has lasted 30 years inhabiting, give or take, the same snap shot of time. It might seem exciting to have these long hinted at events actually occur in the fluff and in game, but ultimately what GW have done by moving the narrative forward rather than diving deeper into the universe is start a stopwatch that's going to keep counting down for their customers. What was a sandbox for the gamer and designers to play in is becoming a vector headed towards a conclusion. When your stated aim is to make the best toy soldiers in the world and keep doing it forever, starting your golden goose IP on a journey towards a conclusion isn't the best idea.

Hmm... well put. What if they move it forwards a bit and then take a step back and leave it alone for a while? Moving the plot forwards now doesn't necessarily mean it has to keep moving, though I imagine there's a risk that now they have the ball rolling it will be difficult to stop.

I think I sit on the fence with the plot progression. I'm glad to see a bit of movement; I don't mind seeing some primarchs show up, some big players die, campaigns won and lost etc., just as long as the factions themselves remain more or less as they are.

They did post a video near 2016's end mentioning how 2017 was gonna be BIG; Then Fall of Cadia is released in January. We are in March and we are getting our first loyalist Primarch.

Now, I understand how many of you wanted the status quo, but me, I'm loving this ! It's only March and the 40k storyline is already completely different when compared to December (of many, many, MANY years), we have one of the famous Demi-Gods back. (and hopefully not as briefly as a certain Primarch in The Beast saga). I can only wonder what the remaining 9 months will bring, and what the 8th edition will be like considering how this seems to be leading there.

And I'm sure tons of Warhammer players loved all the big movements in the plot of WFB right up until the moment it stopped being Warhammer and became Age of Trademarks.

Be careful what you wish for.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I'm sure tons of Warhammer players loved all the big movements in the plot of WFB right up until the moment it stopped being Warhammer and became Age of Trademarks.

Be careful what you wish for.

And now the plot advances at the speed of decades in IRL months. So players can't actually keep up. By the time you have fought how it goes in your games plot has already changed nullifying your games.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I'm sure tons of Warhammer players loved all the big movements in the plot of WFB right up until the moment it stopped being Warhammer and became Age of Trademarks.

Be careful what you wish for.

I'm ... not a good example: I had no interest in WFB, 0, nil, now I'm a fan of AoS and about to start Ironjawz.

I love reading about 40k, but I hate the current state of the game ... if a certain revolution in 8th edition rules makes me want to play it again, win-win

tneva82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I'm sure tons of Warhammer players loved all the big movements in the plot of WFB right up until the moment it stopped being Warhammer and became Age of Trademarks.

Be careful what you wish for.

And now the plot advances at the speed of decades in IRL months. So players can't actually keep up. By the time you have fought how it goes in your games plot has already changed nullifying your games.

I never understood this. Your games are your universe. You have your own campaign, so you can have the fun and enjoyment of creating your own timeline where Abbadon actually curb-stomped everyone. What difference makes the official plot line?

I'm never going to understand this fear people have of the plot advancing. I probably shouldn't even comment, I don't get it at all. I don't care that Han Solo died in Force Awakens, I can still fly him around in my X-Wing games. I won't care if the "current" 40k story changes things, I'm obviously going to continue using Creed and pre-Black Rage Tycho and all the rest of it. Games are played at an arbitrary point in the universe's timeline to make the game work, surely. The way you guys talk you'd think any game based on a story that actually has an ending would automatically be unplayable, characters can never die or change allegiances, etc. To me that's stagnation and I hate it. Good stories end!

 Bull0 wrote:
I'm never going to understand this fear people have of the plot advancing. I probably shouldn't even comment, I don't get it at all. I don't care that Han Solo died in Force Awakens, I can still fly him around in my X-Wing games. I won't care if the "current" 40k story changes things, I'm obviously going to continue using Creed and pre-Black Rage Tycho and all the rest of it. Games are played at an arbitrary point in the universe's timeline to make the game work, surely. The way you guys talk you'd think any game based on a story that actually has an ending would automatically be unplayable, characters can never die or change allegiances, etc. To me that's stagnation and I hate it. Good stories end!

I'm never going to understand why people don't get that 40K isn't a story (unlike the Star Wars saga movies). It's a setting.

Some rumors seems to be confirmed as true by the warhammer community:

Jesus not to mention we've now got canonical examples of "time-lost" 30k era forces rocking up to fight in m41, usually through alien maguffins or warp shenanigans. The setting is almost impervious to these temporal problems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HBMC - that's daft, Star Wars is a "setting" too. Do you have any other points to counter what I said or just that soundbite?

Both the addition of depth and the increase of breadth are expansions of the setting.

Also, notice how many people have raged immeasurably at the Tau and necron story elements? Same thing here. If it isn't your cup of tea, ignore that part of the game. But don't treat it as if they are different.

 Bull0 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HBMC - that's daft, Star Wars is a "setting" too. Do you have any other points to counter what I said or just that soundbite?

What do you mean by that? The movies are absolutely stories. It's all about the Skywalkers. Everything else is backdrop. The expanded universe is a setting.

tneva82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I'm sure tons of Warhammer players loved all the big movements in the plot of WFB right up until the moment it stopped being Warhammer and became Age of Trademarks.

Be careful what you wish for.

And now the plot advances at the speed of decades in IRL months. So players can't actually keep up. By the time you have fought how it goes in your games plot has already changed nullifying your games.

absolute fallacy, games arent nullified by this. If this were true why would people be playing 30k?

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
I never understood this. Your games are your universe. You have your own campaign, so you can have the fun and enjoyment of creating your own timeline where Abbadon actually curb-stomped everyone. What difference makes the official plot line?

Technically nothing. Of course makes paying for the books stupid idiotic thing because I can't use them! Because if I use them there will be sooooo many contradictions that if those happened in our universum it would cause instant destruction. Laws of physics would break loose. You would have situation where characters, planets and sectors are both alive and dead _at the same time_.

So basically GW is forcing me to not buy their books. I can't justify spending money on books that would just sit on the shelf. Contents are useless.

Ruin wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HBMC - that's daft, Star Wars is a "setting" too. Do you have any other points to counter what I said or just that soundbite?

What do you mean by that? The movies are absolutely stories. It's all about the Skywalkers. Everything else is backdrop. The expanded universe is a setting.

OK, I think i understand - so the star wars universe is a setting and warhammer 40k is a setting. What does that mean? Just semantics. You can play The Old Republic happily even if you don't like Jar Jar, and you can play Badab War games even if you don't like Rise of the Primarch. The complaints amount to "I don't like the writing much but that's just an opinion so I need to argue it somehow breaks the property on a meta level". Navelgazing codswallop.

I don't think this is productive, I probably shouldn't have chipped in. I'm happy for the take home to be "Bull0 doesn't get it, what a shocker". im not in favour of anything that harms some peoples' enjoyment of their games!

Stepping into this debate, alright first of all, as some of you may have surmised from my user name, I... played Battletech, did for ages. MW2 brought me in, and I slowly drifted away after the Jihad. what drove me away BTW was the massive rapid changes made too fast to the setting. I say this, because yeah personal experiance has taught that a game setting starts to suck hard if every 6 months to a year, everything totally changes.

so... with that said.... Rise of the Primarch is NOT that. yes it's a change to the setting, a BIG one at that, it does not mean however these changes will continue etc. it's entirely possiable GW'll throw some major happenings out into the universe, stuff with big implications etc, that promise future epic battles etc to come....

And then sit there. it could be simply a matter of us being 5 minutes to midnight instead of 10.

massive continueing changes to the setting are bad I agree, but occasionally hitting the setting with some development and a jolt, can be good. there's a middle ground between stagnation and "too much change for even tzeetch"

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I think, rather than reform the Legions of the Heresy era, we may see some Chapters rolled into each other as a result of getting their faces smashed in.

So the Chapter in the Codex sense will persist, but some of the more grievously wounded ones (thinking Blood Angels specifically, didn't they and their successors just get a mauling from the Nids?) will be smooshed together into something not a Chapter but not quite a Legion either.

It would explain the sudden spate of books about the Scythes of the Emperor.

I'm not fully up to speed with all of the Scythes background but could they just be expanding on threads from the Horus Heresy books as to how the Tyranids homed in on the Imperium in the first place.

They must have some whacked out planning meetings for Black Library books.

"You know the Scythes got a chinning from the Tyranids in 40K? What if it was because of something the Ultramarines did in the Heresy era?"

"Excellent idea. Now we can spin out a load of 40K short stories and novels expanding the Scythes."

After all, the HH as we know it now was spun out from one text box in a rule book..

And filler text at that

Damn, that is an awesome quote. Roboute is not happy!

Yup.

Also, rear left hand corner, right in the background....

Is...is that a Custodes? Looks too big to be Macragge Honour Guard?

Well it looks like we finally know for sure what Guilliman thinks of the current state of the Imperium. You know it bad when the guy who would looked to keep the dream alive even after he thought Terra had be been lost looks around and goes "yeah no, I'd rather be dead"

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Also, rear left hand corner, right in the background....
Is...is that a Custodes? Looks too big to be Macragge Honour Guard?

Isn't that Cawl?
Or are you seeing something I don't...

Edit....left...yeah I see it... :-)

Awwwwwww, he's petting his pet gryphound

Also dark angels saymbol in bottom right. Maybe imperium secundus just came too early in the Black Library series and RG will make another go at it.

I like that quote.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yup.

Also, rear left hand corner, right in the background....

Is...is that a Custodes? Looks too big to be Macragge Honour Guard?

Perhaps. Could also be a statue or bas-relief?

Indeed.

I kind of think it is a Custodes, but more than a smidge of wishful thinking there!

Wow... This is even better than I ever hoped. This last book is gonna be so DAMN GOOD!




P.S: If you watched yesterday's Warhammer_Tv's show, you saw how Andy was nervous about Guilliman's first words in the 41st Millenium. If this is it, he nailed it!

BrianDavion wrote:
Stepping into this debate, alright first of all, as some of you may have surmised from my user name, I... played Battletech, did for ages. MW2 brought me in, and I slowly drifted away after the Jihad. what drove me away BTW was the massive rapid changes made too fast to the setting. I say this, because yeah personal experiance has taught that a game setting starts to suck hard if every 6 months to a year, everything totally changes.

But BattleTech isn't a setting, it's a story, and it always has been. It moves, constantly. The universe was driven by the fiction, contrasted to 40K where the fiction was used to tell stories in the setting.

40k is and is always been a setting WITH a story. It has both things, only that the story remained frozen for quite a while. People wanted the story to advance, for they focused on that aspect, while people wanted the story where it was, since they focused on the setting aspect. GW wants to focus on the early now, that's it. Now, I think we can safely say this won't bring us anywhere.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Love that pic and the quote is great

 Mr Morden wrote:

Love that pic and the quote is great

Yeah, next he can reform the Imperium and get rid of all that depressing grimdark nonsense.
*eyeroll*

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Love that pic and the quote is great

Yeah, next he can reform the Imperium and get rid of all that depressing grimdark nonsense.
*eyeroll*

I have been seeing you complain a lot but never saying exactly how this is a bad thing. What is going to change? Nothing. So why do you still keep sulking when nothing has happened yet? 40K will not be rainbow and unicorns. The Imperium will not turn into Whimshire (spelling?). Even then, Whimshire is still a very dangerous place. . Everything is still going to be doom and gloom. So not sure what your point is.

 Crimson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Love that pic and the quote is great

Yeah, next he can reform the Imperium and get rid of all that depressing grimdark nonsense.
*eyeroll*

Not sure what the prioblem is here - we have the grim dark element of "WTF have you done!" likely talking to some of the "main cast" whilst posing for the populace in the main image.

Now if it had been a "Lo I shall bring you back from the darkness" you might have had a point - but this is the opposite - its a almost disparing statement from someone who has awoken to find all that he fought for ashes and worse. I think you are missing the whole point of both the image and the quote.

that rumour about one of the loyalists turning heretic

please not Roboute :(

Davor wrote:
What is going to change? Nothing.

A Primarch has returned and is displeased with the current state of the Imperium. Yet nothing is going to change.
I seriously doubt that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LightKing wrote:
that rumour about one of the loyalists turning heretic

please not Roboute :(

That would be the only way to make this mess even remotely tolerable. It would be almost cool, in fact.
(It would still be bad move, as I doubt many Ultramarine players would be pleased with such a development.)

 Wolfblade wrote:


Wasn't that the DA? They sat out the fight to see which side came out on top.

This quote really annoys me. You're citing a traitor who Luther said he couldn't trust. Give me a break.

if that don't foreshadow a new powergrab I will be very surprised. The Enlightened empire home to free humanity,aeldari,custodes and Space Marines that don't need flea collars.

Anyone who at this stage does not think this is the 40k End Times fluffwise is in denial.

The ground has been laid for massive amounts of change army wise. We have the Potential for but not limited too:
A new line of guard given cadia and catachan got krumped good.
A new line of combined eldar, pretty self explanatory.
A new breed of super marine, using new armour developed off Robot Ghoulman's new super suit.
New Chaos forces with Primarch and god specific troops.
New wolfy mcwolfson all wolfy all the time wulvern force.
More loyalist primarchs and there forces.
Reformed Ultramarines Legion and new mcragge based empire.
Terran based genestellar cult with more units.

The list goes on.

SeanDrake wrote:
if that don't foreshadow a new powergrab I will be very surprised. The Enlightened empire home to free humanity, aeldari, custodes and Space Marines that don't need flea collars.

Anyone who at this stage does not think this is the 40k End Times fluffwise is in denial.

Yeah, this.

I'd love to be wrong, but the signs are not good.

Meh. Delete this and let's move on.

Gotta ask, has anyone actually jumped ship? Seen a lot of whining about the end of 40k, but unlike 7th, have yet to see people dumping armies left and right. More like a bunch of ex-players crying about the current state of a game they don't play.

SeanDrake wrote:
if that don't foreshadow a new powergrab I will be very surprised. The Enlightened empire home to free humanity,aeldari,custodes and Space Marines that don't need flea collars.

Anyone who at this stage does not think this is the 40k End Times fluffwise is in denial.

The ground has been laid for massive amounts of change army wise. We have the Potential for but not limited too:
A new line of guard given cadia and catachan got krumped good.
A new line of combined eldar, pretty self explanatory.
A new breed of super marine, using new armour developed off Robot Ghoulman's new super suit.
New Chaos forces with Primarch and god specific troops.
New wolfy mcwolfson all wolfy all the time wulvern force.
More loyalist primarchs and there forces.
Reformed Ultramarines Legion and new mcragge based empire.
Terran based genestellar cult with more units.

The list goes on.

It's not, because they literally said there is not going to be end times


some of you are just being negative to be negative....you want to maintain the status quo thats been maintained for over 20 years

 jreilly89 wrote:
Gotta ask, has anyone actually jumped ship? Seen a lot of whining about the end of 40k, but unlike 7th, have yet to see people dumping armies left and right. More like a bunch of ex-players crying about the current state of a game they don't play.

Does 30k count? I've pretty much written off GW proper especially in the last year or so. Now FW has and keeps on doing a bang up job. Even their 40k stuff I like (Badab War, Siege of Varaks, etc etc).

Now 30k, all marines all the time! Pick your favored colour and go to town!

Honestly, if Roboute becomes a "heretic", it will only be in the eyes of the exceedingly corrupt Imperial Government, High Lords of Terra, and the Ecclesiarchy. He is probably committed to the Emperor's original vision, something no one else in the galaxy can boast. He will probably try to turn the Imperium back to what it is supposed to be.

Well, hell road's paved with good intentions, no?

Love that quote too, chilling.

Crimson wrote:

Davor wrote:
What is going to change? Nothing.

A Primarch has returned and is displeased with the current state of the Imperium. Yet nothing is going to change.
I seriously doubt that.

That is right. Nothing changes because you are still complaining and not backing up your statements. Just saying so doesn't mean it will happen. If you have already explained why, I must have missed it. Can you please link up so I can see your point of view? If you haven't can you please explain why? I can't understand you right now because you are just acting like a little child complaining and pouting about something that hasn't even happened.

The "setting" hasn't changed. Imperial of Man is on the brink still. Chaos is always still loosing and looking pathetic. Tyranids will always still be the "huge threat" but everyone is still beating them and a Fleet or Tendril still gets destroyed. Orks will always be a menace. So again what is going to change?

While I may not agree with you, I am not saying you are wrong. I am just trying to understand your point of view since I am not seeing it.

https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

Roboute Guilliman, Lord of the Ultramarines, Avenging Son and last loyal Primarch makes his Warhammer Live Debut.

He stands against Skarbrand, exiled Daemon Prince of Khorne.

It's gonna be a good one! Tune in here from 2:30pm (GMT)

broadcasting right now....


.. Guillamns armour can regenerate/bring him back from the dead on a 4+ with d3W.

2+ save, 6w, 4++ save.

.. new command traits from book 3... which can be spent ..?

Ok, officially love RG with his helmet on, no idea why it looks soooooo much better.

 reds8n wrote:
https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

Roboute Guilliman, Lord of the Ultramarines, Avenging Son and last loyal Primarch makes his Warhammer Live Debut.

He stands against Skarbrand, exiled Daemon Prince of Khorne.

It's gonna be a good one! Tune in here from 2:30pm (GMT)

broadcasting right now....


.. Guillamns armour can regenerate/bring him back from the dead on a 4+ with d3W.

2+ save, 6w, 4++ save.

.. new command traits from book 3... which can be spent ..?

Sounds kickass!

His fist gun:
24" s6 ap2 assault 3 rending

sword looks to be s10, ap1, armourbane, concussion, soul blaze, whirling flame, touch of the emperor
touch of the emperor looks to make it a D attack somehow, i'd speculate on any 6's to hit

gun is 24" ass3, s6 ap2 rending

s,t,6,I,A all seem to be 6.

..sword x2 his S and can -- on a 6 maybe ? -- produce a D hit.

loads of command buffs..

.might be a 3++ save in fact ?

Gun is 24" S:6 AP:2 assault 3, Rending.

Sword is Sx2, with "a chance for S"

And I'm pretty sure I heard 3++ save.

Also, one extra doctrine, leadership cannot be modified by any means, and re-rolls deny the witch. Which apparently combos really well with Cypher's abilities.


Edit: and has all the warlord traits from the command table.

Statline of 66666666666666...10

Pretty easy to remember

Davor wrote:

That is right. Nothing changes because you are still complaining and not backing up your statements. Just saying so doesn't mean it will happen. If you have already explained why, I must have missed it. Can you please link up so I can see your point of view? If you haven't can you please explain why? I can't understand you right now because you are just acting like a little child complaining and pouting about something that hasn't even happened.

I indeed have explained it several times, I really can't be bothered to find the old posts, so one more time, really briefly:

It really relates to what one sees as the defining features of the Imperium and the 40K as a whole.
This quote is relevant:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Honestly, if Roboute becomes a "heretic", it will only be in the eyes of the exceedingly corrupt Imperial Government, High Lords of Terra, and the Ecclesiarchy. He is probably committed to the Emperor's original vision, something no one else in the galaxy can boast. He will probably try to turn the Imperium back to what it is supposed to be.

This is indeed a logical prediction of what will happen. But to me (and to many others, I'm sure) the Imperium being a decomposing, corrupt, theocratic dystopia, its glory days being barely remembered legends is a big part of the charm. I don't want the Imperium to be 'fixed'. The mere reappearance of a Primarch already breaks the mythic past vibe, and If he starts to reform (as I'm sure he will) more of the flavour of the Imperium will be lost. (Hell, maybe he will get rid off the Ecclesiarchy, so that GW finally has an excuse to squat the Sisters for good!)

With his ability to influence the Armies of the Imperium, it stands to reason he will be a Lord of War choice for all armies of the Imperium. I am fine with that. I want to be able to run Big Blue with my Crimson Fists. He really shines with the Ultras though.

All command warlord traits. Nasty.

 Latro_ wrote:
His fist gun:
24" s6 ap2 assault 3 rending

sword looks to be s10, ap1, armourbane, concussion, soul blaze, whirling flame, touch of the emperor
touch of the emperor looks to make it a D attack somehow, i'd speculate on any 6's to hit

was right in the guess just confirmed on a 6 hits with SD
whirling flame, instead of 6 attacks instead for every unit within 1" in combat he can make a number of attacks equal to the number of models in those units!!!

OMG!!!!!

so say he is in CC with a unit of 10 orks and 15 grots by what they just said if he was within 1" of either unit he'd make 25 attacks (unless i heard that wrong)

.....
..... his sword is filthy !

D on a 6 to hit, S10 armourbane, concussive, soul blaze.


Can instead do his.....err... whirlyflamerule attack : all units within 1" take a # of hits equal to the number of minis in 1".


.. no tarpitting there then.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:

Spoiler:

 Azreal13 wrote:



You know why TV shows have a shelf life? Or why movie sequels are almost always inferior to their predecessors? It's because if you have to work with a narrative, you either have to offer resolution or keep one-upping previous events. If you don't offer resolution, the audience gets bored and frustrated, if you continue to go bigger, you eventually cross into parody.

GW are already bordering on the latter, if they keep moving things forward (even if this is a single step for now) where can you see the game in 3 years? 10? 40K has lasted 30 years inhabiting, give or take, the same snap shot of time. It might seem exciting to have these long hinted at events actually occur in the fluff and in game, but ultimately what GW have done by moving the narrative forward rather than diving deeper into the universe is start a stopwatch that's going to keep counting down for their customers. What was a sandbox for the gamer and designers to play in is becoming a vector headed towards a conclusion. When your stated aim is to make the best toy soldiers in the world and keep doing it forever, starting your golden goose IP on a journey towards a conclusion isn't the best idea

.

Hmm... well put. What if they move it forwards a bit and then take a step back and leave it alone for a while? Moving the plot forwards now doesn't necessarily mean it has to keep moving, though I imagine there's a risk that now they have the ball rolling it will be difficult to stop.

Leaving it alone would be the best case scenario at this point. The danger there is that it sets up expectations, look how strongly certain ideas persist even now, even those that are long since passed the point of probability or even totally debunked, within the player base. Up to this point, "40K is a setting and not an ongoing story" has been inviolate, now it is not. This will invariably mean the click bait vendors will raid this new, rich seam of nonsense every time there's a faction update or rumour of a new edition, get people stirred up and, inevitably, disappoint a few people.

Then, even more problematically, there's the danger it's successful! This is speaking as a fan, rather than a business point of view. It's no secret GW has been in the doldrums, financially speaking, for the last few years, so if this reinvigorates 40K and makes GW a butt load of money, the commercial pressures to keep doing it will likely swiftly overcome any creative sensibilities about maintaining the integrity of the setting.

Of course, none of this may happen, all the people deploying liberal quantities of handwavium ITT may just be correct. But I witnessed the End Times of WHFB (both literally and figuratively) through the prism of this board, and there's so much deja vu right now it's giving me vertigo.

This could actually lead to an Imperium even more messed up than 'current' - it is very easy indeed to imagine another civil war taking place.

Those rules sound kind of ridiculous.

Crimson wrote:

Davor wrote:

That is right. Nothing changes because you are still complaining and not backing up your statements. Just saying so doesn't mean it will happen. If you have already explained why, I must have missed it. Can you please link up so I can see your point of view? If you haven't can you please explain why? I can't understand you right now because you are just acting like a little child complaining and pouting about something that hasn't even happened.

I indeed have explained it several times, I really can't be bothered to find the old posts, so one more time, really briefly:

It really relates to what one sees as the defining features of the Imperium and the 40K as a whole.
This quote is relevant:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Honestly, if Roboute becomes a "heretic", it will only be in the eyes of the exceedingly corrupt Imperial Government, High Lords of Terra, and the Ecclesiarchy. He is probably committed to the Emperor's original vision, something no one else in the galaxy can boast. He will probably try to turn the Imperium back to what it is supposed to be.

This is indeed a logical prediction of what will happen. But to me (and to many others, I'm sure) the Imperium being a decomposing, corrupt, theocratic dystopia, its glory days being barely remembered legends is a big part of the charm. I don't want the Imperium to be 'fixed'. The mere reappearance of a Primarch already breaks the mythic past vibe, and If he starts to reform (as I'm sure he will) more of the flavour of the Imperium will be lost. (Hell, maybe he will get rid off the Ecclesiarchy, so that GW finally has an excuse to squat the Sisters for good!)

Thank you very much for this. I can sort of see your point. I still think it's too early to get so upset. After all this could make it even more grim dark and see the Imperium split and fight amongst themselves now. Alphairus said it best.

Alpharius wrote:This could actually lead to an Imperium even more messed up than 'current' - it is very easy indeed to imagine another civil war taking place.

The "setting" is going to be the same. Nothing is changing.

That said I think a Primarch coming back is like Necrons being added, or Tau being added. The Imperium is not going to turn into Star Trek Federation faction being all clean and what not. Yes GW can drop the ball on this and then again they can make it better. So I say let's just see what happens before we start complaining. After all the emotional turmoil can be for naught.

if they brought him back they can also kill him. If things get out of hand and the setting is in danger of being ruined, they just have to have someone properly chop his head off.

Until it does get out of hand, give them a chance. It might be awesome, it might flop. Naysaying before it has a chance to do either is silly.

For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

 Crimson wrote:

Davor wrote:

That is right. Nothing changes because you are still complaining and not backing up your statements. Just saying so doesn't mean it will happen. If you have already explained why, I must have missed it. Can you please link up so I can see your point of view? If you haven't can you please explain why? I can't understand you right now because you are just acting like a little child complaining and pouting about something that hasn't even happened.

I indeed have explained it several times, I really can't be bothered to find the old posts, so one more time, really briefly:

It really relates to what one sees as the defining features of the Imperium and the 40K as a whole.
This quote is relevant:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Honestly, if Roboute becomes a "heretic", it will only be in the eyes of the exceedingly corrupt Imperial Government, High Lords of Terra, and the Ecclesiarchy. He is probably committed to the Emperor's original vision, something no one else in the galaxy can boast. He will probably try to turn the Imperium back to what it is supposed to be.

This is indeed a logical prediction of what will happen. But to me (and to many others, I'm sure) the Imperium being a decomposing, corrupt, theocratic dystopia, its glory days being barely remembered legends is a big part of the charm. I don't want the Imperium to be 'fixed'. The mere reappearance of a Primarch already breaks the mythic past vibe, and If he starts to reform (as I'm sure he will) more of the flavour of the Imperium will be lost. (Hell, maybe he will get rid off the Ecclesiarchy, so that GW finally has an excuse to squat the Sisters for good!)

What makes you think you he's going to fix the Imperium? What makes you think he isn't​ going to be labled a heretic by the High Lords and Ecclisiarchy (both of whom are directly threatened by his power) and forced into becoming Horus 2.0?

Guilliman has every chance of dividing the Imperium more than uniting it.

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Then the people already calling it a flop should just move on and not stick around and mope then. It's one thing being sceptical, since I am sceptical that 8th edition is going to be any good but not complaining about it until I try it out first. So if people already made up their mind they should move on then and go to somewhere that they will enjoy then. To stick around they have no right to complain and whine then. After all nobody is forcing them to stay and then they need to take consequence of their actions and accept it if they stick around.

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Don't have to play to have an opinion on this.

 ProtoClone wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Don't have to play to have an opinion on this.

No, but it looks foolish. I don't play Warmachine, but I also don't go on their forums and complain about how bad the MKIII release is. Same reason I don't go and bash the newest X-Wing release

 jreilly89 wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Don't have to play to have an opinion on this.

No, but it looks foolish. I don't play Warmachine, but I also don't go on their forums and complain about how bad the MKIII release is. Same reason I don't go and bash the newest X-Wing release

I don't play 40k anymore, but I am still following the story. I still read the books because I still like the setting. So what if someone doesn't play? There are other aspects this story affects beyond the game and that is the conversation.

Some people are just really invested in the lore, and there's nothing wrong with that. I love the 40k setting even if the game is pretty awful in terms of balance.

If those stats/abilities are correct...RG can wreck just about anything in CC and laugh the entire time. Knights have zero chance.

 ProtoClone wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Don't have to play to have an opinion on this.

No, but it looks foolish. I don't play Warmachine, but I also don't go on their forums and complain about how bad the MKIII release is. Same reason I don't go and bash the newest X-Wing release

I don't play 40k anymore, but I am still following the story. I still read the books because I still like the setting. So what if someone doesn't play? There are other aspects this story affects beyond the game and that is the conversation.

I'll accept that. What I think is silly is criticizing the story when it hasn't even been released yet. What if the return of Roboute is amazing and makes the lore better?

By Badtucker on disqus - RG rules screenshot

 jreilly89 wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Don't have to play to have an opinion on this.

No, but it looks foolish. I don't play Warmachine, but I also don't go on their forums and complain about how bad the MKIII release is. Same reason I don't go and bash the newest X-Wing release

I don't play 40k anymore, but I am still following the story. I still read the books because I still like the setting. So what if someone doesn't play? There are other aspects this story affects beyond the game and that is the conversation.

I'll accept that. What I think is silly is criticizing the story when it hasn't even been released yet. What if the return of Roboute is amazing and makes the lore better?

That stands to be seen.

I think they have every right based on what happened with WHFB. Past experiences have made some of us a tad bitter.

Except some of us think that the WHFB thing was actually awesome. The world was stale as hell. The game was stale. The setting felt meh. End Times set it on fire with a bang and AoS fluff is actually really good and getting even better as the universe gets extended.

If they do 40k half so well advancing the story as they are doing with AoS then we're in for a treat.

I guess as long as they dont turn the Guard into the Freeguilds...

 Bobthehero wrote:
I guess as long as they dont turn the Guard into the Freeguilds...

Seriously, freeguild and guard aren't really different, considering they vary a lot from city/planet to city/planet and they generally work as a more "defensive" rather than "shock" force.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Spoiler:

If you replace "empire" with "game" and "Horus" with "Kirby" in the bottom quote, it's ironically equally as appropriate in real life as the original is in the fluff. I'll take them screwing up the fluff if they fix the actual rules. I can always unilaterally change the former while playing pickup games but not the bloated, greedy, corpse of the latter.

Many fans are heavily invested in old 40k and every year they see Games Workshop move a little further from what they love. No wonder people are worried that a big new event in the lore might be a destructive force for the universe they love.

Personally, I don't mind a little change here and there but I'm also in the worried camp. I want GW to move back in the direction that appeals to me obviously and this could be a decisive move in the opposite, 'Saturday morning cartoon' and toy robot action figure direction.

It's cool if you like what happening but loads of people don't, we don't have to fight about it.

Warhams-77 wrote:
By Badtucker on disqus - RG rules screenshot

Spoiler:

Holy crap. Really hope he can be taken by any Imperium force. I'd love to have him lead my Guard.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Into 7th, I still have two armies with a third (more 30K orientated but with an eye towards using it in 40K also) WIP.

I have stopped playing, because I find the game deeply unsatisfying to play as it stands, but I'd say I'm lapsed rather than quit.

Equally, I'm not bemoaning the game (in this context,) I'm not even specifically criticising the details of the changes (although god knows I have my reservations) I'm questioning the wisdom of taking any setting and moving the timeline forward, because this in and of itself presents creative challenges for maintaining the longevity of the game's fiction.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Except some of us think that the WHFB thing was actually awesome. The world was stale as hell. The game was stale. The setting felt meh. End Times set it on fire with a bang and AoS fluff is actually really good and getting even better as the universe gets extended.

If they do 40k half so well advancing the story as they are doing with AoS then we're in for a treat.

Some people can't the forest for the trees. AoS is and always will be the devil to them, no matter what good may come from it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Casey's Law wrote:
Many fans are heavily invested in old 40k and every year they see Games Workshop move a little further from what they love. No wonder people are worried that a big new event in the lore might be a destructive force for the universe they love.

Personally, I don't mind a little change here and there but I'm also in the worried camp. I want GW to move back in the direction that appeals to me obviously and this could be a decisive move in the opposite, 'Saturday morning cartoon' and toy robot action figure direction.

I hope they blow it up, AoS style. 30 years of "2 minutes to midnight" grows stale. At least there's things finally at stake now.

"A brand new game" What?!

If you’re heading to AdeptiCon* this March, you’d be madder than an Ork Mek to miss our Studio Preview events on Wednesday night.

Now, we’ll grant you, ‘Studio Preview’ doesn’t give much away, and we can’t tell you too much here either (lest we ruin the surprise) but we can tell you it’s not just a bunch of pictures on a powerpoint slide. Because, sure, anything we show you will end up on the internet, and even right here on the Warhammer Community site, quicker than a Speed Freek can rev his engine (it’s unofficial Ork day here in the office).

If you go to the preview event, you’ll not only get to handle a host of new miniatures, (some of which won’t be out for almost a year) you’ll get to play some games with them. And not just any game, a brand new game. On top of that, we’ve even commissioned some special dice for attendees to keep as a momento. And, that’s not even all. You’ll also get to see some new game mechanics we’ve got in mind for existing games and give us your thoughts.

Now, obviously, there will also be a powerpoint presentation (and maybe a video or two) with loads of cool unreleased miniatures and great new art, but that’s just window dressing.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/03/adepticon-the-one-thing-you-dont-want-to-miss/

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Into 7th, I still have two armies with a third (more 30K orientated but with an eye towards using it in 40K also) WIP.

I have stopped playing, because I find the game deeply unsatisfying to play as it stands, but I'd say I'm lapsed rather than quit.

Equally, I'm not bemoaning the game (in this context,) I'm not even specifically criticising the details of the changes (although god knows I have my reservations) I'm questioning the wisdom of taking any setting and moving the timeline forward, because this in and of itself presents creative challenges for maintaining the longevity of the game's fiction.

That's a fair response. However, I take the opposite view. I think moving the timeline forward helps the longevity of the game's fiction. You can only continue to write so much in the same "event". I mean, yeah we haven't covered everything in the Horus Heresy, but it's pretty fairly detailed. If they don't move forward, I'd say in another 10 years they'd be out of ideas for 30k/40k lore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warhams-77 wrote:
"A brandnew game" What?!

If you’re heading to AdeptiCon* this March, you’d be madder than an Ork Mek to miss our Studio Preview events on Wednesday night.

Now, we’ll grant you, ‘Studio Preview’ doesn’t give much away, and we can’t tell you too much here either (lest we ruin the surprise) but we can tell you it’s not just a bunch of pictures on a powerpoint slide. Because, sure, anything we show you will end up on the internet, and even right here on the Warhammer Community site, quicker than a Speed Freek can rev his engine (it’s unofficial Ork day here in the office).

If you go to the preview event, you’ll not only get to handle a host of new miniatures, (some of which won’t be out for almost a year) you’ll get to play some games with them. And not just any game, a brand new game. On top of that, we’ve even commissioned some special dice for attendees to keep as a momento. And, that’s not even all. You’ll also get to see some new game mechanics we’ve got in mind for existing games and give us your thoughts.

Now, obviously, there will also be a powerpoint presentation (and maybe a video or two) with loads of cool unreleased miniatures and great new art, but that’s just window dressing.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/03/adepticon-the-one-thing-you-dont-want-to-miss/

I'd bet money it's another Gangs of Commoragh or Space Hulk style game. Doubt they'll preview 8th this early. If they do, then holy gak!

Good point. But I'm fine with that, just a bit surprised they are going to show new releases (miniatures and a brand new game) at an event. Looking forward to it.

 Casey's Law wrote:
Many fans are heavily invested in old 40k and every year they see Games Workshop move a little further from what they love. No wonder people are worried that a big new event in the lore might be a destructive force for the universe they love.

Personally, I don't mind a little change here and there but I'm also in the worried camp. I want GW to move back in the direction that appeals to me obviously and this could be a decisive move in the opposite, 'Saturday morning cartoon' and toy robot action figure direction.

 jreilly89 wrote:
I hope they blow it up, AoS style. 30 years of "2 minutes to midnight" grows stale. At least there's things finally at stake now.

 Casey's Law wrote:
It's cool if you like what happening but loads of people don't, we don't have to fight about it.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Good point. But I'm fine with that, just a bit surprised they are going to show new releases (miniatures and a brand new game) at an event. Looking forward to it.

Agreed. GW has been much more open with teasers lately, and I think it definitely helps build up hype. Look at what they did with Magnus/Cadia/etc. The one thing I hope they do away with is limited edition minis. Having collector's edition books is fine, but limited edition figures always bugged me.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Into 7th, I still have two armies with a third (more 30K orientated but with an eye towards using it in 40K also) WIP.

I have stopped playing, because I find the game deeply unsatisfying to play as it stands, but I'd say I'm lapsed rather than quit.

Equally, I'm not bemoaning the game (in this context,) I'm not even specifically criticising the details of the changes (although god knows I have my reservations) I'm questioning the wisdom of taking any setting and moving the timeline forward, because this in and of itself presents creative challenges for maintaining the longevity of the game's fiction.

That's a fair response. However, I take the opposite view. I think moving the timeline forward helps the longevity of the game's fiction. You can only continue to write so much in the same "event". I mean, yeah we haven't covered everything in the Horus Heresy, but it's pretty fairly detailed. If they don't move forward, I'd say in another 10 years they'd be out of ideas for 30k/40k lore.

What about all the races, Craftworlds, Guard Regiments, Chapters, sub Factions, battles, campaigns and characters that have only ever had a passing reference in lore?

What about the Ghoul (Ghost?) Stars?

What about the 10 000 years since the Heresy?

There's a huge amount of space left to explore, this isn't some creative decision to move things forward because they've run out of design space, they've moved things forward because it's easy and they know it will allow them to produce stuff that sells by the bucket.

That's not necessarily a criticism of GW as a company, while one could argue they have a certain artistic responsibility to maintain the integrity of something they're custodians of, the reality is they exist to sell product, but it is something I think should give the fans pause before they throw a party.

Sounds like Adeptus Titanicus and its resin miniatures

Warhams-77 wrote:
"A brand new game" What?!

And not just any game, a brand new game... ... And, that’s not even all. You’ll also get to see some new game mechanics we’ve got in mind for existing games and give us your thoughts.

3 ways to play? Wasn't that brought up by Mr Roundtree last year? So maybe it will be 8th edition but then the "new game mechanics we've got in mind for existing games" will be for people who want to continue playing 40K in third edition style like 3.5 edition or like a modified 7th edition? The new game could be an AoS type game for 40K. So now you have 3 ways to play. Regular 40K as now but modified, 30K and maybe an AoS type 40K game. Just a guess not saying this is the way it will be.

I'm sold with the "If you go to the preview event, you’ll not only get to handle a host of new miniatures, (some of which won’t be out for almost a year) ". This excites me far too much

I hope there is more to RG's rules than that.
So far they feel completely uninspiring and there is the classic space marine problem of "the beatstick that can not move more than 6 inches per turn"

That's pretty cool. I hope I can get into the preview.

That makes sense, Davor. Back in late 3rd they released experimental rules for 40k (changes to close combat eg) which were then used in 4th.

Given the titan game isn't out yet, they'll likely show that.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Into 7th, I still have two armies with a third (more 30K orientated but with an eye towards using it in 40K also) WIP.

I have stopped playing, because I find the game deeply unsatisfying to play as it stands, but I'd say I'm lapsed rather than quit.

Equally, I'm not bemoaning the game (in this context,) I'm not even specifically criticising the details of the changes (although god knows I have my reservations) I'm questioning the wisdom of taking any setting and moving the timeline forward, because this in and of itself presents creative challenges for maintaining the longevity of the game's fiction.

That's a fair response. However, I take the opposite view. I think moving the timeline forward helps the longevity of the game's fiction. You can only continue to write so much in the same "event". I mean, yeah we haven't covered everything in the Horus Heresy, but it's pretty fairly detailed. If they don't move forward, I'd say in another 10 years they'd be out of ideas for 30k/40k lore.

What about all the races, Craftworlds, Guard Regiments, Chapters, sub Factions, battles, campaigns and characters that have only ever had a passing reference in lore?

What about the Ghoul (Ghost?) Stars?

What about the 10 000 years since the Heresy?

There's a huge amount of space left to explore, this isn't some creative decision to move things forward because they've run out of design space, they've moved things forward because it's easy and they know it will allow them to produce stuff that sells by the bucket.

That's not necessarily a criticism of GW as a company, while one could argue they have a certain artistic responsibility to maintain the integrity of something they're custodians of, the reality is they exist to sell product, but it is something I think should give the fans pause before they throw a party.

It's not like the Gathering Storm is going to stop any 30k production, I'm pretty sure FW will still be taking care of that. I think it's just that their focus (rightly so) is continuing the 40k line.

Also, I don't think there's that much to explore. Does every craftworld, guard regiment, etc. deserve a full explanation? I think it's more interesting that they aren't fully explored, as it leaves some more player choice in there.

Atia on disqus - Gathering Storm III ending

Atia 4 hours ago

It's time for the second [redacted]

All shall be revealed this saturday

Edit: With saturday I mean in roughly 7 hours

I have a little spoiler for the ending :p

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/1760#comment-3184771239

 troa wrote:
Given the titan game isn't out yet, they'll likely show that.

Ahh...AT isn't a Studio game though...

Warhams-77 wrote:
Atia on disqus - Gathering Storm III ending

Atia 4 hours ago

It's time for the second [redacted]

All shall be revealed this saturday

Edit: With saturday I mean in roughly 7 hours

I have a little spoiler for the ending :p

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/1760#comment-3184771239

Lady Atia shouldn't tease this much. This is just mean.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Into 7th, I still have two armies with a third (more 30K orientated but with an eye towards using it in 40K also) WIP.

I have stopped playing, because I find the game deeply unsatisfying to play as it stands, but I'd say I'm lapsed rather than quit.

Equally, I'm not bemoaning the game (in this context,) I'm not even specifically criticising the details of the changes (although god knows I have my reservations) I'm questioning the wisdom of taking any setting and moving the timeline forward, because this in and of itself presents creative challenges for maintaining the longevity of the game's fiction.

That's a fair response. However, I take the opposite view. I think moving the timeline forward helps the longevity of the game's fiction. You can only continue to write so much in the same "event". I mean, yeah we haven't covered everything in the Horus Heresy, but it's pretty fairly detailed. If they don't move forward, I'd say in another 10 years they'd be out of ideas for 30k/40k lore.

What about all the races, Craftworlds, Guard Regiments, Chapters, sub Factions, battles, campaigns and characters that have only ever had a passing reference in lore?

What about the Ghoul (Ghost?) Stars?

What about the 10 000 years since the Heresy?

There's a huge amount of space left to explore, this isn't some creative decision to move things forward because they've run out of design space, they've moved things forward because it's easy and they know it will allow them to produce stuff that sells by the bucket.

That's not necessarily a criticism of GW as a company, while one could argue they have a certain artistic responsibility to maintain the integrity of something they're custodians of, the reality is they exist to sell product, but it is something I think should give the fans pause before they throw a party.

It's not like the Gathering Storm is going to stop any 30k production, I'm pretty sure FW will still be taking care of that. I think it's just that their focus (rightly so) is continuing the 40k line.

Also, I don't think there's that much to explore. Does every craftworld, guard regiment, etc. deserve a full explanation? I think it's more interesting that they aren't fully explored, as it leaves some more player choice in there.

That's a little contrary - "I think it's more interesting that stuff is left unexplained, but I'm keen to see all this stuff that was previously unexplained dragged front and centre into the spotlight in the name of moving things forward."

Ultimately, whether a Craftworld or whatever deserves a full exploration is determined by the quality of that exploration. Is it interestingly different enough from what has gone before?

It's moot though, GW have gone for the low hanging fruit, while leaving huge parts of the map unexplored.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Atia on disqus - Gathering Storm III ending

Atia 4 hours ago

It's time for the second [redacted]

All shall be revealed this saturday

Edit: With saturday I mean in roughly 7 hours

I have a little spoiler for the ending :p

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/1760#comment-3184771239

Lady Atia shouldn't tease this much. This is just mean.

Spoiler:

She's probably waiting for other people to break it first so then she can break it and post it as her own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
For some people, the fact that they've done it is already sufficient to call it a flop.

I'd count myself in the deeply sceptical but still open minded camp, but it's difficult to see a route forward that's not going to look like a Saturday morning cartoon.

Azrael, gotta ask you a question. Do you play 40k currently? If not, when did you quit? Seems kinda pointless to bemoan a game you aren't playing

Into 7th, I still have two armies with a third (more 30K orientated but with an eye towards using it in 40K also) WIP.

I have stopped playing, because I find the game deeply unsatisfying to play as it stands, but I'd say I'm lapsed rather than quit.

Equally, I'm not bemoaning the game (in this context,) I'm not even specifically criticising the details of the changes (although god knows I have my reservations) I'm questioning the wisdom of taking any setting and moving the timeline forward, because this in and of itself presents creative challenges for maintaining the longevity of the game's fiction.

That's a fair response. However, I take the opposite view. I think moving the timeline forward helps the longevity of the game's fiction. You can only continue to write so much in the same "event". I mean, yeah we haven't covered everything in the Horus Heresy, but it's pretty fairly detailed. If they don't move forward, I'd say in another 10 years they'd be out of ideas for 30k/40k lore.

What about all the races, Craftworlds, Guard Regiments, Chapters, sub Factions, battles, campaigns and characters that have only ever had a passing reference in lore?

What about the Ghoul (Ghost?) Stars?

What about the 10 000 years since the Heresy?

There's a huge amount of space left to explore, this isn't some creative decision to move things forward because they've run out of design space, they've moved things forward because it's easy and they know it will allow them to produce stuff that sells by the bucket.

That's not necessarily a criticism of GW as a company, while one could argue they have a certain artistic responsibility to maintain the integrity of something they're custodians of, the reality is they exist to sell product, but it is something I think should give the fans pause before they throw a party.

It's not like the Gathering Storm is going to stop any 30k production, I'm pretty sure FW will still be taking care of that. I think it's just that their focus (rightly so) is continuing the 40k line.

Also, I don't think there's that much to explore. Does every craftworld, guard regiment, etc. deserve a full explanation? I think it's more interesting that they aren't fully explored, as it leaves some more player choice in there.

That's a little contrary - "I think it's more interesting that stuff is left unexplained, but I'm keen to see all this stuff that was previously unexplained dragged front and centre into the spotlight in the name of moving things forward."

Should have been more specific. I mean I appreciate them leaving the unknown two legions and other chapters unexplained because it allows for people to make their own legions and fluff. AFAIK, Gathering Storm isn't touching the two unnamed legions, correct?

Ultimately, whether a Craftworld or whatever deserves a full exploration is determined by the quality of that exploration. Is it interestingly different enough from what has gone before?

Doubtful. At least, no more interesting that all the FW Chapters that are out there.

It's moot though, GW have gone for the low hanging fruit, while leaving huge parts of the map unexplored.

That's kind of a loaded statement. Is it really low hanging fruit if it's still good and interesting?