Some of what throws him off in my mind is his leg armour panels curve inwards on the lower leg rather than outwards like normal. That together with the spread legged pose and overly gaudy armour in general unbalance the whole thing.
I know I'll not be upgrading from the lovely (if less action poised) FW version.
I am attributing height and girth difference to the new armor. It is said to be the pinnacle of power armor tech. It probably incorporates much thicker plating than RG's previous armor. The height difference is probably due to larger boots to proxide better footing.
Mr Morden wrote: well as she speaks with His voice and is (as you say) effectively a Greater Daemon of the Emperor - only better since killing her mortal form only banishers her for seconds not hundreds of years - yeah I think we can say she is more powerful than he is - any doubt check out the pic of her arrival at Cadia and the multiple Greater Deamons being slain by her aura of power
Give that she wasn't able to beat Ezekyle Abaddon, I think it important to remember that there's no such thing as a proper power scale in 40k and licentia poetica runs rampant.
Personally, I blame Draigo.
To be fair, Abaddon is a whole different level, having the full support of all 4 powers. And she has been the only one since the Heresy, not only to lay hands on him, but near enough cripple him in 10,000+ years.
Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.
I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.
GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.
Elbows wrote: Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.
Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.
I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.
GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.
Good post - Ageed - I like the Primarch but not the Eldar - Avatar being the best of the bunch for me, the girl too stiff and Imperial looking and the guy just a bit dull, but I get that otherws will love them.
RG without his helm does look a bit like Caligula !
The pose is good. I believe the problem is the "swirl hooks" make it look more Chaos. Also less is more. Someone did a photoshop and took the swirls away and it looks good. Too much bling.
Also the size. I am taking it he is in Darth Vader suit armour that keeps him alive so that is why he is twice as tall as others.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: To be fair, Abaddon is a whole different level, having the full support of all 4 powers. And she has been the only one since the Heresy, not only to lay hands on him, but near enough cripple him in 10,000+ years.
To be fair, someone could argue that Abaddon was distracted (he was) and it was a backstab (it was) and it still wasn't enough. Or that Abaddon hasn't, to my knowledge, fought anyone important in the past ten thousand years, so who knows how powerful he really is as an individual. Or that it was Tuesday and we all know Chaos is weak sauce on Tuesdays.
That way madness lies. I've seen the threads on Warseer.
Elbows wrote: Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.
Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.
I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.
GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.
I think the problem is more that people state their opinions as of they are facts. As of you looking something is factually incorrect and you're an idiot for doing so.
Look at the long lists of people dissecting RG as if they are fine art critics dissecting a masterpiece.
If you mock something someone likes, often without basis, you're going to irritate them. Look at your last line, you don't like it but you have decided to insinuate that it's designed by a 9 yr old, that it's cranked from 11 to 13! ... that's why people get irritated and the discussion descends into the schoolyard.
For the record I think the proportions look off too, I'm sure it will have some kind of reasoning with it being a supporting thing but it isn't my cup of tea - so it's not just that I'm calling you a hater because you criticised my Primarch of choice
I did it yesterday virtually in mspaint. I matched the 60mm base sizes (assuming that's what both actually come on). If the GW one comes on an even larger base then all bets are off.
It's not so much the height but rather the ridiculous pose and popeye like exaggerated proportions of the GW model that make it look so ridiculously huge (and the excessive armor filigree that make it look gaudy). The attached pic looks small but is magnified in the spoiler below.
Spoiler:
Thank you for this. It only reinforces that I vastly prefer the FW one.
Chikout wrote: Here's the foreword version without the Base. As you can see, he is about twice the height of a regular marine. Combined with the other picture it shows that the 40k and 30k version are of a very similar scale, but the new version has been bulked out a lot by the suit.
I am still not that keen on the sculpt, but any complaints about him being too big should be equally levied at the forgeworld primarchs.
Wait, it shows what-now? Ignore the direct height comparison and consider the posing and the individual elements of the bodies - Plastic Rowboat's greaves are nearly twice as long as Resin Rowboat, his thighs are a bit longer, and his torso is far bulkier. If you stood Plastic Rowboat upright in the same pose as the resin one he'd be almost half-again as tall.
And again, the FW Primarchs are properly scaled relative to humans, it's the normal Marine models that are the odd ones out.
So, no, complaints about size shouldn't be equally levied at the FW Primarchs, they're consistent with the current fluff and substantially smaller than Plastic Rowboat.
Elbows wrote: Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.
Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.
I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.
GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.
A little bit about the digital stuff. In a recent interview Jes Goodwin said that anyone who wants a job at GW needs to show their skill with physical sculpting first. The theory being that you can then learn the cad stuff later.
As far a taste goes I agree. I love the recent Eldar stuff, I think the forgeworld Horus is much worse than this new Roboute, my wife really hates the new Celestine etc etc.
Thairne wrote: I wonder if this time there will be some rules for DA in the book... There is a smidgeon of hope with Cypher appearing.
The Inner Circle will get NUTS and hunt that guy down. Again.
Spoiler:
They already met Cypher. And let him go. Multiple times.
Thairne wrote: I wonder if this time there will be some rules for DA in the book... There is a smidgeon of hope with Cypher appearing.
The Inner Circle will get NUTS and hunt that guy down. Again.
Spoiler:
They already met Cypher. And let him go. Multiple times.
That is why there is that little "again" at the end I mean its just not like
Spoiler:
he freakin' escaped multiple times during the millenia and even has been SET free. Or the last instance of this was in the last decades of the current timeline.
Forgeworld models are far better. You can tell the difference in the level of respect they give to the subject matter apart from their mastery of craft. Seems like they're cranking this stuff out too fast without thinking. This is three decades in the making and neither the model nor the plot represent that.
I'm excited as everyone else is, but this is looking like Age of Sigmar.
Elbows wrote: Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.
Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.
I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.
GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.
The 3D artist isn't the one designing the mini, that is a designers job. The 3D artist would have had art to work from.
Forgeworld models are far better. You can tell the difference in the level of respect they give to the subject matter apart from their mastery of craft. Seems like they're cranking this stuff out too fast without thinking. This is three decades in the making and neither the model nor the plot represent that.
I'm excited as everyone else is, but this is looking like Age of Sigmar.
And you believe the sculptor of this doesn't have respect of the subject matter? If I was hired to sculpt for them I would dgaf about people bickering as 1 I am paid for talents and promote their vision 2 Get to bring something to/ breathe new life into things 3 Following concept art 4 much more talented than peers, or enough to have the job (as an art grad myself I believe that while people have opinions, their criticisms are not on the same level as someone who has also devoted credited education/ apprentice time in the same field)
And you believe the sculptor of this doesn't have respect of the subject matter? If I was hired to sculpt for them I would dgaf about people bickering as 1 I am paid for talents and promote their vision 2 Get to bring something to/ breathe new life into things 3 Following concept art 4 much more talented than peers, or enough to have the job (as an art grad myself I believe that while people have opinions, their criticisms are not on the same level as someone who has also devoted credited education/ apprentice time in the same field)
GW has been firing on all cylinders.
Absolutely not, especially not in comparison to the Forgeworld sculptors.
First of all, it was clearly digitally drawn. It has no resemblance to the FW model. He isn't using a gladius. His face looks like it was stung by bees. The iconography and armor look like they were born out of 40k instead of being his traditional armor befitting of his personality descriptions in the novels. His pose is absurd and makes him look like an action figure, whereas he was dignified and poised like Julius Caesar in the FW model, again in line with his fluff and depictions in the HH novels. Where does the sword come from? The braziers and skulls are also out of place.
Watch this video and compare the sculptor's attitude:
Guilliman preferred using his gladius per the novels - ofc he has a gladius in both the Forgeworld model and rules.
I wonder if they gifted him the Burning Blade for his return.
I heavily disagree with your opinion, since there's 10k of years between both models and we don't even know how much Cybernetics is under the hood, but concerning your qustions, warhammer-community tells us:
Roboute Guilliman returns to the Imperium after several millennia in stasis, resurrected by arcane Imperial artifice and fell xenos sorcery (which we’re pretty sure some in the Imperium are very much not ok with). His suit of armour is a marvel to behold – the pinnacle of power-armoured technology (courtesy of Belisarius Cawl) while his blade is no less than one of the blazing swords once carried by the Emperor of Mankind himself. Crowning his armour is a celestial halo, an obvious symbol of the Emperor’s blessing, perhaps gifted by some other hero of the Imperium..
His armor was made by Cawl, so yes, it's 40k. It has a life support under the hood. He doesn't have his gladius since, hey, here's one of your father's swords. His armor even bears the Celestine's Halo. Yes, this is 40k's RB, since, well, we are in 40k and the plot advanced and it's no longer the pretty faced 30k's RB.
And you believe the sculptor of this doesn't have respect of the subject matter? If I was hired to sculpt for them I would dgaf about people bickering as 1 I am paid for talents and promote their vision 2 Get to bring something to/ breathe new life into things 3 Following concept art 4 much more talented than peers, or enough to have the job (as an art grad myself I believe that while people have opinions, their criticisms are not on the same level as someone who has also devoted credited education/ apprentice time in the same field)
GW has been firing on all cylinders.
Absolutely not, especially not in comparison to the Forgeworld sculptors.
First of all, it was clearly digitally drawn. It has no resemblance to the FW model. He isn't using a gladius. His face looks like it was stung by bees. The iconography and armor look like they were born out of 40k instead of being his traditional armor befitting of his personality descriptions in the novels. His pose is absurd and makes him look like an action figure, whereas he was dignified and poised like Julius Caesar in the FW model, again in line with his fluff and depictions in the HH novels. Where does the sword come from? The braziers and skulls are also out of place.
Watch this video and compare the sculptor's attitude:
The forgeworld one is pretty bland. If I had to categorize I'd say GW+Helm>FW>>>>>>GW without helm. But that's me.
LightKing wrote: One can still claim that Kaldor Draigo is more powerful than Roboute?
its going to be interesting to see if the Gray Knights yeild to Roboute's command
Dunno... but if Draigo is powerful enough to tag a daemon primarch's heart with his initials then maybe he could remove some of Guilliman's filigree that is so excessive it would make Fulgrim blush.
LightKing wrote: One can still claim that Kaldor Draigo is more powerful than Roboute?
its going to be interesting to see if the Gray Knights yeild to Roboute's command
Dunno... but if Draigo is powerful enough to tag a daemon primarch's heart with his initials then maybe he could remove some of Guilliman's filigree that is so excessive it would make Fulgrim blush.
Question is do they even care?
i figure rowboat is mostly going to leave the emperium at large the way it is and just go bolster emperium secundous like he did last time
he probably knows he cant deal with the high counsel
So, how crazy OP are 30k primarchs - and rawbutt girlyman in particular? How would, say, 30k girlyman stats stack up with 40k magnus?
I'm just curious to get a hint of what a primarch's stats would be like and how crazy it would be in 40k. Because I heard someone say once that about all that kills a primarch is another primarch.
Absolutely not, especially not in comparison to the Forgeworld sculptors.
First of all, it was clearly digitally drawn. It has no resemblance to the FW model. He isn't using a gladius. His face looks like it was stung by bees. The iconography and armor look like they were born out of 40k instead of being his traditional armor befitting of his personality descriptions in the novels. His pose is absurd and makes him look like an action figure, whereas he was dignified and poised like Julius Caesar in the FW model, again in line with his fluff and depictions in the HH novels. Where does the sword come from? The braziers and skulls are also out of place.
That model is also $80. This kit of 3 will cost less than that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kap'n Krump wrote: So, how crazy OP are 30k primarchs - and rawbutt girlyman in particular? How would, say, 30k girlyman stats stack up with 40k magnus?
I'm just curious to get a hint of what a primarch's stats would be like and how crazy it would be in 40k. Because I heard someone say once that about all that kills a primarch is another primarch.
Separate fluff and rules in your head, because they won't match up very often.
Kap'n Krump wrote: So, how crazy OP are 30k primarchs - and rawbutt girlyman in particular? How would, say, 30k girlyman stats stack up with 40k magnus?
I'm just curious to get a hint of what a primarch's stats would be like and how crazy it would be in 40k. Because I heard someone say once that about all that kills a primarch is another primarch.
For 400pts you've got 6s across the board minus WS(7) Attacks (4+1), Ld (10) and a nice 2+/4++
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: Is it really that hard to remember how to spell "Roboute Guilliman"?
Keep in mind angrons the worst primarch though.
Seems since he was the first to be made, they went a bit too far on taming him down.
And most primarchs are over 400 too.
Horus being the most expensive and far more than 400.
They also don't all have 2+/4++
Some are slightly better, some are slightly worse.
They are all vastly different though.
Before magnus (30k) they were all relatively easy to kill.
AP2 is not lacking atall in 30k.
Magnus however is somewhat stronger if he can get invisibility.
He is just shy of 500 though.
Power wise, no 30k primarch is broken.
Anyone saying so needs to play 30k a lot more as they go down to shooting like most things.
Seems FW have tamed them down from the fluff to make them actually useable in games.
Now that I could remember. Of course, I'd have to model him with a mustache and mariachi hat (which, if one of the busier ones visually, would match his armor).
I'm not sure if that would step on primarch Alpharius' villainous toes though (even without the baby stapled to it).
LightKing wrote: Can't one make the claim that Celestine might even have authority over Roboute since she is more powerful than him, i presume...or at least on his level?
You. I like you. I like the way you think. I would vote for you if GW writers were elected.
Kap'n Krump wrote: So, how crazy OP are 30k primarchs - and rawbutt girlyman in particular? How would, say, 30k girlyman stats stack up with 40k magnus?
I'm just curious to get a hint of what a primarch's stats would be like and how crazy it would be in 40k. Because I heard someone say once that about all that kills a primarch is another primarch.
Imagine a monstrous creature statline on an independent character with the typical company master loadout.
If you're curious, Google it. His name's pronounced Rabootay btw.
He has some psychic protection in 30k but Magnus has insane psychic abilities, plus he's a daemon primarch, so he's upgraded over his old primarch form in 40k.
FrothingMuppet wrote: Some of what throws him off in my mind is his leg armour panels curve inwards on the lower leg rather than outwards like normal. That together with the spread legged pose and overly gaudy armour in general unbalance the whole thing.
I know I'll not be upgrading from the lovely (if less action poised) FW version.
Well, the suit is an Admech life support unit, so its not strange it has some admech aesthetics..
Now that I could remember. Of course, I'd have to model him with a mustache and mariachi hat (which, if one of the busier ones visually, would match his armor).
I'm not sure if that would step on primarch Alpharius' villainous toes though (even without the baby stapled to it).
You do realize the name Roberto Guillermo is probably the Spanish name and has nothing to do with Mexico, right? So less mariachi hat, more torero outfit, if we want to do national stereotypes.
And just to add something to the actual discussion: I do not think Celestine holds any authority at all. She is just a saint, not a general. In Fall of Cadia, it was Greyfax who took command. And the only authority higher than an inquisitor is probably a High Lord of Terra... which Guillermo does happen to be. So no silly saint leading an army.
I want to draw a political analogy, but I'll restrain myself.
Azreal13 wrote: And you do understand that Spainish is the most widely spoken language in Mexico, maxing the comparison equally valid?
No.
Well, obviously, I do know that Spanish is spoken in Mexico, too. But I find it odd to make a connection to a Mexican national stereotype based on that language - there are a lot of countries with Spanish as their official language.
That's like having a name in English (when it usually isn't) and immediately making the connection to an Australian national stereotype before thinking of an English stereotype. That makes very little sense to me.
Btw, I love how your profile pic looks like the guy is actually saying what you wrote in this case, looking down upon my assumed stupidity. I don't mean this in any snarky way, I really smile at that.
Then you account for the fact that North America is the other side of the planet from Europe, and that for most US citizens, their exposure to Spainish speaking culture will come from South and Central America and voila, things aren't so mysterious.
You do realize the name Roberto Guillermo is probably the Spanish name and has nothing to do with Mexico, right? So less mariachi hat, more torero outfit, if we want to do national stereotypes.
Fun fact... Spain isn't the only country that has Spanish as it's official language! Mexico, home of many impressive mustaches as well as mariachi bands, is one of them! In any case, it was a joke... you have those in Germany, right??!?!
Azreal13 wrote:Then you account for the fact that North America is the other side of the planet from Europe, and that for most US citizens, their exposure to Spainish speaking culture will come from South and Central America and voila, things aren't so mysterious.
I know, but you know... Netherlands First and so on. They need to learn that eurocentrism is the only true religion.
You do realize the name Roberto Guillermo is probably the Spanish name and has nothing to do with Mexico, right? So less mariachi hat, more torero outfit, if we want to do national stereotypes.
Fun fact... Spain isn't the only country that has Spanish as it's official language! Mexico, home of many impressive mustaches as well as mariachi bands, is one of them! In any case, it was a joke... you have those in Germany, right??!?!
Spoiler:
How many Germans does it take to change a light bulb?
Azreal13 wrote: And you do understand that Spainish is the most widely spoken language in Mexico, maxing the comparison equally valid?
And that a mariachi hat is more funny than a torero hat or even the Tricornio of some of our policement... though it would be funny to model him with this and with the bolter arm risen.
Alpharius wrote: Is it really that hard to remember how to spell "Roboute Guilliman"?
Or at least even try?
I dunno, Primarch name spelling is hard Alphonso
Seriously it's just a joke based on the completely overwrought pronunciation of his name they use on the BL audiodramas.
It actually was a joke even before that, because it wasn't the same in all languages. Leman Russ is always Leman Russ, but Roboute Guilliman was Roboute Guillaume in German, for example. That was at a time when many player were still using the English books in Germany, so there was a lot of confusion how his name was actually spelled.
Elbows wrote: Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.
Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.
I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.
GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.
I think the problem is more that people state their opinions as of they are facts. As of you looking something is factually incorrect and you're an idiot for doing so.
Look at the long lists of people dissecting RG as if they are fine art critics dissecting a masterpiece.
If you mock something someone likes, often without basis, you're going to irritate them. Look at your last line, you don't like it but you have decided to insinuate that it's designed by a 9 yr old, that it's cranked from 11 to 13! ... that's why people get irritated and the discussion descends into the schoolyard.
For the record I think the proportions look off too, I'm sure it will have some kind of reasoning with it being a supporting thing but it isn't my cup of tea - so it's not just that I'm calling you a hater because you criticised my Primarch of choice
This, and the fact that this happens with every model released.
Elbows wrote: Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.
Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.
I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.
GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.
I think the problem is more that people state their opinions as of they are facts. As of you looking something is factually incorrect and you're an idiot for doing so.
Look at the long lists of people dissecting RG as if they are fine art critics dissecting a masterpiece.
If you mock something someone likes, often without basis, you're going to irritate them. Look at your last line, you don't like it but you have decided to insinuate that it's designed by a 9 yr old, that it's cranked from 11 to 13! ... that's why people get irritated and the discussion descends into the schoolyard.
For the record I think the proportions look off too, I'm sure it will have some kind of reasoning with it being a supporting thing but it isn't my cup of tea - so it's not just that I'm calling you a hater because you criticised my Primarch of choice
This, and the fact that this happens with every model released.
You mean people have opinions about every single release? No, that can't be right, surely everyone is only allowed to have one or at most two opinions a year. Letting everyone have an opinion about everything would just be lunacy.
Elbows wrote: Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.
Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.
I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.
GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.
I think the problem is more that people state their opinions as of they are facts. As of you looking something is factually incorrect and you're an idiot for doing so.
Look at the long lists of people dissecting RG as if they are fine art critics dissecting a masterpiece.
If you mock something someone likes, often without basis, you're going to irritate them. Look at your last line, you don't like it but you have decided to insinuate that it's designed by a 9 yr old, that it's cranked from 11 to 13! ... that's why people get irritated and the discussion descends into the schoolyard.
For the record I think the proportions look off too, I'm sure it will have some kind of reasoning with it being a supporting thing but it isn't my cup of tea - so it's not just that I'm calling you a hater because you criticised my Primarch of choice
This, and the fact that this happens with every model released.
You mean people have opinions about every single release? No, that can't be right, surely everyone is only allowed to have one or at most two opinions a year. Letting everyone have an opinion about everything would just be lunacy.
You need to get yourself one of those opinion minions. Lets you put out at least a dozen more a year.
Once per turn your model may criticize the sculpting work on one enemy unit within 8". The targeted unit must immediately make a Leadership test or it is thrown in the trash.
PS: I stand by my harsh criticism of the Gullyman figure, and it is not without basis. As you said...it's an opinion. I did not state it was fact (quite the opposite). I never stated anyone had to deliver their opinion nicely or with flowery words. If I believe the figure to look like garbage, then so be it. If it just has a weird helmet or shoulder pad...then I'd say so. I'm not here to concern myself with how someone takes my opinion.
Once per turn your model may criticize the sculpting work on one enemy unit within 8". The targeted unit must immediately make a Leadership test or it is thrown in the trash.
PS: I stand by my harsh criticism of the Gullyman figure, and it is not without basis. As you said...it's an opinion. I did not state it was fact (quite the opposite). I never stated anyone had to deliver their opinion nicely or with flowery words. If I believe the figure to look like garbage, then so be it. If it just has a weird helmet or shoulder pad...then I'd say so. I'm not here to concern myself with how someone takes my opinion.
Stating your opnion does actually concer you or you would never of gave one you want people to know how you feel or you would of said nothing but to yourself. So do not try to moral high ground people.
But the gillyman model is bad main reasons being
Too big WAY to big, he could of used the land raider as a seat to get to the battle.
His legs connect to his sides like a lizard not like a mammal
He is for some reason trying to do the splits.
His weist is turned to a un-natural angle as tho his weist was like a owls neck it just twirls on the spot.
His head looks swollen the features are off.
His fire sword while in ideal is cool is pointless, having a sword that can heat up to help the cutting edge cool. A sword that is set on fire blinds you while you swing it.
His fire sword while in ideal is cool is pointless, having a sword that can heat up to help the cutting edge cool. A sword that is set on fire blinds you while you swing it.
I'm sorry, for a moment I thought you were criticising His sword
Spoiler:
But there's no way you'd give us a reason to call the local friendly Commissar, right?
His fire sword while in ideal is cool is pointless, having a sword that can heat up to help the cutting edge cool. A sword that is set on fire blinds you while you swing it.
I'm sorry, for a moment I thought you were criticising His sword
Spoiler:
But there's no way you'd give us a reason to call the local friendly Commissar, right?
Spoiler:
I like the fire sword personally. Since when did 40k become about practicality?
Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
Because the guys next to the emperor are custodes (specifically their devastator equivalents).
Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
Because the guys next to the emperor are custodes (specifically their devastator equivalents).
Not only that, check out the "CSM" next to Horus. He barely reaches his waist.
Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
Because the guys next to the emperor are custodes (specifically their devastator equivalents).
Not only that, check out the "CSM" next to Horus. He barely reaches his waist.
Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
Because the guys next to the emperor are custodes (specifically their devastator equivalents).
Not only that, check out the "CSM" next to Horus. He barely reaches his waist.
Not sure why this is directed at me, though.
It isn't, I'm quoting you AND adding another proof of the Primarch's height sorry for the confusion
Custodes are in 40k and they are not That much larger then a terminator, definitely smaller then centurions. Also the CSM is well behind Horus, but yet again perspective eludes the greater community of Dakka
Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
Because the guys next to the emperor are custodes (specifically their devastator equivalents).
Not only that, check out the "CSM" next to Horus. He barely reaches his waist.
Not sure why this is directed at me, though.
It isn't, I'm quoting you AND adding another proof of the Primarch's height sorry for the confusion
that csm is in the distance that's why they gave him a fade out effect. The custodian standing next to the emperor is on the same bearing tho.
Also anyone else find it weird that they are called custodians and he ends up on the golden throne?
Red Corsair wrote: Custodes are in 40k and they are not That much larger then a terminator, definitely smaller then centurions. Also the CSM is well behind Horus, but yet again perspective eludes the greater community of Dakka
What, just as the custodes is behind the God-Emperor and the Custodes in front is not even on the stairs? Perspective works "both ways", bud.
Is it possible that RG is wearing a mech suit. The original rumors were that he would be in a Dreadknight type contraption. If that were the case it would explain why his head looked way too tiny. It might also explain why the legs were so fat at the bottom and weirdly curved.
Can we please limit the nonsensical questions in this thread, and try to stick to actual News and Rumors about "The Gathering Storm Part III: Rise of the Primarch"
Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
Because the guys next to the emperor are custodes (specifically their devastator equivalents).
Not only that, check out the "CSM" next to Horus. He barely reaches his waist.
Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
if i recall the BIG E wasnt all that big
he was still mostly human
I thought he was like Magnus, able to alter his size at will? Although some of the Primarchs saw him differently from the others, as a normal human if I remember correctly?
Looky Likey wrote: I thought he was like Magnus, able to alter his size at will? Although some of the Primarchs saw him differently from the others, as a normal human if I remember correctly?
I don't think there's anything that says he actually changes size, although there was one story (the one about the last church on Terra) that made it seem more like he just appears to change size. It refers to him looking like a regular human, but stuff happening (chairs creaking when he sits down, and the like) that suggest that he's actually bigger than he appears.
Elbows wrote: Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.
Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.
I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.
GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.
I think the problem is more that people state their opinions as of they are facts. As of you looking something is factually incorrect and you're an idiot for doing so.
Look at the long lists of people dissecting RG as if they are fine art critics dissecting a masterpiece.
If you mock something someone likes, often without basis, you're going to irritate them. Look at your last line, you don't like it but you have decided to insinuate that it's designed by a 9 yr old, that it's cranked from 11 to 13! ... that's why people get irritated and the discussion descends into the schoolyard.
For the record I think the proportions look off too, I'm sure it will have some kind of reasoning with it being a supporting thing but it isn't my cup of tea - so it's not just that I'm calling you a hater because you criticised my Primarch of choice
This, and the fact that this happens with every model released.
You mean people have opinions about every single release? No, that can't be right, surely everyone is only allowed to have one or at most two opinions a year. Letting everyone have an opinion about everything would just be lunacy.
No, I mean that there are condescending jerks, that belittle others for their opinion. On every release and on other occasions.
will Roboute have authority over the other chapters
for example would Blood Angels listen to him over Dante?
They will all listen and obey their spiritual liege.
You are assuming that Dante would disagree....there is a good chance that he, like any other citzien of the Imperium, high or low, would at the very least respect and consider the words of a Primarch
LightKing wrote: has there been any spoilers in how Calgar reacts to Roboute's return?
Would Roboute become Chapter Master, bumping Marneus to First Captain?
I wonder if they are going to kill off Agammen, or something.,.
Though i expect a lot of no named Ultramarine characters are going to die, and i dont see Cassius or Tigurius in the previews they showed.
I think Roboute will have far bigger things to concern himself with than being chapter master of the UM. Most likely he is going to reform the legions to a degree. I think he is going to become the defacto commander of as many imperial forces as he can get his hands on.
I always thought that how people saw the emperor was just a psychic projection, and he was really just a shriveled old man, but a very powerful psyker. Now I wonder if he's just a very powerful daemon.
LightKing wrote: has there been any spoilers in how Calgar reacts to Roboute's return?
Would Roboute become Chapter Master, bumping Marneus to First Captain?
I wonder if they are going to kill off Agammen, or something.,.
Though i expect a lot of no named Ultramarine characters are going to die, and i dont see Cassius or Tigurius in the previews they showed.
He is totally bringing back the ultramarines LEGION.
This is setting up for a civil war, the Imperium is trash at the moment.
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Red Corsair wrote: Funny looking at that classic depiction of the Emperor Sanguinius and Horus. None of them are really 3 and a half times larger the then marines in the room. I mean if the big E is only marginally larger then a marine why is RG SOOOOO fething huge?
What are you talking about? In that picture the big E is like 1/3 larger then the marine next to him. Horus is nearly twice as large......
Primarchs have and continue to be UGE. You are thinking back to RT fluff which is been dead from a fluff standpoint for some time....
Alpharius wrote: I definitely do NOT see Guilliman reforming the Legions!
HE is the one that broke them up, after the disaster that was the Horus Heresy.
Yeah I don't see Roboute admitting he fethed up.
But then again this is the Ultramarines, his rerolling 2+plot armor save will protect his decisions.
I am surprised at the odd miniature pose and looks though, especially after how amazing Magnus looks. Definitely looking forward to seeing the Lion though.
Alpharius wrote: I definitely do NOT see Guilliman reforming the Legions!
HE is the one that broke them up, after the disaster that was the Horus Heresy.
Yeah I don't see Roboute admitting he fethed up.
But then again this is the Ultramarines, his rerolling 2+plot armor save will protect his decisions.
I am surprised at the odd miniature pose and looks though, especially after how amazing Magnus looks. Definitely looking forward to seeing the Lion though.
Miniature looks are always going to be a personal value decision. I actually really didn't like the Magnus model at all. I really like the plastic Roboute. To each his own.
Alpharius wrote: I definitely do NOT see Guilliman reforming the Legions!
HE is the one that broke them up, after the disaster that was the Horus Heresy.
Yeah I don't see Roboute admitting he fethed up.
But then again this is the Ultramarines, his rerolling 2+plot armor save will protect his decisions.
I am surprised at the odd miniature pose and looks though, especially after how amazing Magnus looks. Definitely looking forward to seeing the Lion though.
The Lion is my favorite loyalist primarch, I have to admit I am excited to see him from either GW or FW
Alpharius wrote: I definitely do NOT see Guilliman reforming the Legions!
HE is the one that broke them up, after the disaster that was the Horus Heresy.
You don't think he is going to consolidate power under his command?
I think thats the entire point. He is going to pull Space Marine forces under his command. He won't reform the actual, original legions (that wouldn't be good fluffwise or in terms of GW selling models with variety) but he will certainly be commanding far more than just the Ul;tramarines going forward.
Alpharius wrote: I definitely do NOT see Guilliman reforming the Legions!
HE is the one that broke them up, after the disaster that was the Horus Heresy.
You don't think he is going to consolidate power under his command?
I think thats the entire point. He is going to pull Space Marine forces under his command. He won't reform the actual, original legions (that wouldn't be good fluffwise or in terms of GW selling models with variety) but he will certainly be commanding far more than just the Ul;tramarines going forward.
Sure, he might be 'the general in charge' and maybe even one of the High Lords (which would be one way to get him off the stage without killing him/putting him pack in stasis - turn him into a bureaucrat! ), but he won't be the only one making the decisions, especially when it comes to the Space Marines.
And especially when another Primarch (or two?) returns as well...
Alpharius wrote: I definitely do NOT see Guilliman reforming the Legions!
HE is the one that broke them up, after the disaster that was the Horus Heresy.
Yeah I don't see Roboute admitting he fethed up.
But then again this is the Ultramarines, his rerolling 2+plot armor save will protect his decisions.
I am surprised at the odd miniature pose and looks though, especially after how amazing Magnus looks. Definitely looking forward to seeing the Lion though.
The Lion is my favorite loyalist primarch, I have to admit I am excited to see him from either GW or FW
About that... The Lion and Dorn are my favorites. I really like that most of the issues that those legions suffered from was caused by their primarchs being unable to relate to other people. The Lion's isolation and how it shaped him and his legion is really cool.
Anyway, I really hope they DON'T spoil the Cypher mystery.
Spoiler:
From the looks of it, Cypher was tasked by the Lion to reveal the existence of the Traitor Dark Angels to the Emperor. Which sort of makes all of the effort to keep the secret contrary to what the Lion has wanted all along. It seems more like the Lion wants forgiveness.
I've been thinking of a possibility of Imperium Secundus: Electric Boogaloo as well. Robuto Gojiramon sure would feel out of place in the current, fanatically religious Imperium. Actually, even his own gene-sons aren't exactly as he left them...
Albino Squirrel wrote: I always thought that how people saw the emperor was just a psychic projection, and he was really just a shriveled old man, but a very powerful psyker.
Yeah, that's way cooler than him actually being a silly giant.
SarisKhan wrote: I've been thinking of a possibility of Imperium Secundus: Electric Boogaloo as well. Robuto Gojiramon sure would feel out of place in the current, fanatically religious Imperium. Actually, even his own gene-sons aren't exactly as he left them...
I honestly don't see RG lasting long.
Everything about RG represents everything the emperor wanted his empire becoming. The longer RG is alive the more of a destabilizing threat he becomes and the High Lords can't have their empire falling.
Alpharius wrote: I definitely do NOT see Guilliman reforming the Legions!
HE is the one that broke them up, after the disaster that was the Horus Heresy.
Yeah I don't see Roboute admitting he fethed up.
But then again this is the Ultramarines, his rerolling 2+plot armor save will protect his decisions.
I am surprised at the odd miniature pose and looks though, especially after how amazing Magnus looks. Definitely looking forward to seeing the Lion though.
After the heresy the ENTIRE Imperium was reorganized to prevent to much power resting in the hands of one group. The breaking of the legions was just one aspect of this. Ever since the Imperium has had to walk the fine line between being too diffuse or too centralized in its structure. Some of the darkest times for the Imperium have arisen from either extreme. There is certainly a lot of bloat that could do with trimming(just like the table top ), but the core structure seems to be fairly sound. The fact that the Imperium has lasted as long as it has should attest to that.
What RG does in the 41st millennium will depend on how much time he's given. The gathering storm series is a major crises that is probably going to take much of his attention and whatever available forces he can lay his hands on. If the background for 8th is set during or just after this event then RG will probably not have had time to make much of an impact on the running or structure of the larger Imperium. If the 8th background, or the event storyline itself has any large time skips then I'd say all bets are off. It could be anything from RG sitting as regent ruling the entire Imperium. To the whole thing breaking apart into civil war with RG being declared a traitor by some and hailed as a savior by others.
LightKing wrote: has there been any spoilers in how Calgar reacts to Roboute's return?
Would Roboute become Chapter Master, bumping Marneus to First Captain?
I wonder if they are going to kill off Agammen, or something.,.
Though i expect a lot of no named Ultramarine characters are going to die, and i dont see Cassius or Tigurius in the previews they showed.
Cassius Just got a new plastic model last year with Death Watch Overkill. I doubt they would kill him off so soon
Technically the Cassius in DeathWatch Overkill was a younger version of him self (prior to the Tyranid invasion of MacCragge), even before Cassius got his bionics.
In terms of RG taking over the chapter...after RG made the Index Astartes, did the Primarchs still run their original (much smaller) chapters?
I mainly want Dorn to drop so I can see what he would look like. Hope he has a real stoic pose. Something like Ulric the Slayer, resting his big off chainsword upon a battered building or big alien skull.
The Lion would be cool to see, no idea how he is portrayed but felt the DA have always gone for the more knightly aesthetic so guess he would look cool. Besides the sword Cypher has is badass.
unmercifulconker wrote: I mainly want Dorn to drop so I can see what he would look like. Hope he has a real stoic pose. Something like Ulric the Slayer, resting his big off chainsword upon a battered building or big alien skull.
The Lion would be cool to see, no idea how he is portrayed but felt the DA have always gone for the more knightly aesthetic so guess he would look cool. Besides the sword Cypher has is badass.
Dorn would be laying on the ground half dead as a corpse, nearby a new Night Haunter sculpt with Sigsmund in horror.
Roboute was always the loyal son (except there was that book in the horus series). I don't think he will band the ultramarines back together, but he will IMHO be the leader of the crusade to kick the chaos renegades back to the eye of terror and free Cadia!
What RG does in the 41st millennium will depend on how much time he's given. The gathering storm series is a major crises that is probably going to take much of his attention and whatever available forces he can lay his hands on. If the background for 8th is set during or just after this event then RG will probably not have had time to make much of an impact on the running or structure of the larger Imperium. If the 8th background, or the event storyline itself has any large time skips then I'd say all bets are off. It could be anything from RG sitting as regent ruling the entire Imperium. To the whole thing breaking apart into civil war with RG being declared a traitor by some and hailed as a savior by others.
But he's going to Terra. With Cypher. This is guaranteed to be awesome.
Also, I hate to break it to you guys, but he's not going to be the only primarch, lol. There's so much foreshadowing on the others. Now that they've unveiled the curtain and shown they're willing to use any deus ex machina to breathe life into this machine, chances are very low that there won't be at least one more at some point.
There's at least 3 candidates, 4 if you count Jaghatai.
Also, I hate to break it to you guys, but he's not going to be the only primarch, lol. There's so much foreshadowing on the others. Now that they've unveiled the curtain and shown they're willing to use any deus ex machina to breathe life into this machine, chances are very low that there won't be at least one more at some point.
LightKing wrote: so i heard a theory, although i don't know how valid it is
What if this isn't the "real" Roboute, but one of Fabius Bile's clone primarchs that he did?
i so wish this was the case
but its not, we have eldar magic or necron somethings to thank for our Spiritual Leige returning to us.
It's alright....even Necrons and Eldar want to be ultramarines
According to goonbandit resume from Gathering storm II, the Eldar does help to resucitate him because only humans may be a decent ally for the upcoming Chaos threat, and among humans the Emperor-corpse is doomed and only RG may be able to properly unite Mankind.
So it seems to hint RG it's back to be a lil puppet in Eldar true purpouses. (at least until GW want to change it for a twist)
P.S: on a personal note if RG gives the finger to the imperium and try to start a new imperius secundus i totally see him joinning the Tau race as their Ideals and common goal seems pure and similar to what the emperor achieved.
P.S: on a personal note if RG gives the finger to the imperium and try to start a new imperius secundus i totally see him joinning the Tau race as their Ideals and common goal seems pure and similar to what the emperor achieved.
The Emperor still distrusted aliens, and I can't see the ethereal caste agreeing to letting such a powerful empire run by such a dangerous, willful individual such as RG into the Tau empire without a way to ensure obedience. At best, a pragmatic peace treaty could be arranged while the Tau Empire and Imperius Secondus accomplished other things. I would rather they didn't however, since I prefer my "there is only war" grim dark setting to remain that way and not turn into super-friends.
Has the Star Child and Sensei / Illuminati plot lines been killed off over the years? I rather liked the whole Star Child prophecy, with the current Emperor's Death being the key to destroy the Chaos Gods.
I'd still love to see the Emperor's soul released into the warp where he becomes a 5th major chaos god, then Lorgar comes back as a daemon prince of the Emperor. The Imperium splits in civil war over whether to worship the new chaos god or continue opposing all things chaos.
Albino Squirrel wrote: I'd still love to see the Emperor's soul released into the warp where he becomes a 5th major chaos god, then Lorgar comes back as a daemon prince of the Emperor. The Imperium splits in civil war over whether to worship the new chaos god or continue opposing all things chaos.
I have a feeling that's what's happening, but that the Emperor will not be a Chaos God. He will be the God of Mankind, with Celestine as his Saint. Lorgar will be something akin to Satan, and the Emperor's release will quell any doubts from returning Primarchs.
S long as they don't destroy miniature lines and pee all over the established background for jollys/to sell rediculous stuff then im ok with it. And id rather there wasnt silly scale creep
Albino Squirrel wrote: I'd still love to see the Emperor's soul released into the warp where he becomes a 5th major chaos god, then Lorgar comes back as a daemon prince of the Emperor. The Imperium splits in civil war over whether to worship the new chaos god or continue opposing all things chaos.
I have a feeling that's what's happening, but that the Emperor will not be a Chaos God. He will be the God of Mankind, with Celestine as his Saint. Lorgar will be something akin to Satan, and the Emperor's release will quell any doubts from returning Primarchs.
Lorgar has been sitting on the fence for 10000 years not choosing a god. Maybe Lorgar has this whole time been waiting for his extravagantly elaborate plot, to prove to the Emperor that he is indeed a god, to play out? Then having spent ten millenia learning all that is chaos, Lorgar will guide the Emperor to his rightful place as the center of the 8 pointed path.
Inquisitor Kallus wrote: S long as they don't destroy miniature lines and pee all over the established background for jollys/to sell rediculous stuff then im ok with it. And id rather there wasnt silly scale creep
That's my concern already. AoS did remove the cool things like Imperial Artillery Units
I'm not so sure about this. I love the "and the gods walk among man" feeling with the primarchs but I also love the grimdark "There is only war, and god isn't coming to save us this time" approach. If the next one looks less derpy I might consider getting back into 40k. Until then I'm sticking with HH.
NivlacSupreme wrote: I'm not so sure about this. I love the "and the gods walk among man" feeling with the primarchs but I also love the grimdark "There is only war, and god isn't coming to save us this time" approach. If the next one looks less derpy I might consider getting back into 40k. Until then I'm sticking with HH.
Indeed, I love the whole crumbling Imperium trying to keep itself together and menaces everywhere vibe. Inquisitor and Dark Heresy were great, I think that if something happens with the Emperor then 40k will lose (bg wise) a lot of what makes it feel so good. IIm all for advancing the plot a bit but theyd probably be wise to be careful how they go about it
I'm really hoping this leads into and brings back the old chaos orks. A nice small alliance of chaos demons and khorne worshipping orks with some demon summoning weirdboy would be fun. I know orks are genetically resistant to corruption of any kind but some chaos orks can exist if rare.
NivlacSupreme wrote: I'm not so sure about this. I love the "and the gods walk among man" feeling with the primarchs but I also love the grimdark "There is only war, and god isn't coming to save us this time" approach. If the next one looks less derpy I might consider getting back into 40k. Until then I'm sticking with HH.
Indeed, I love the whole crumbling Imperium trying to keep itself together and menaces everywhere vibe. Inquisitor and Dark Heresy were great, I think that if something happens with the Emperor then 40k will lose (bg wise) a lot of what makes it feel so good. IIm all for advancing the plot a bit but theyd probably be wise to be careful how they go about it
I could see it working well if they play it right. Having the Emperor's death be the salvation of god coming to save them would be suitably ironic considering it's something the Imperium has been dreading/preventing for 10,000 years. Having that god be subsequently rejected by those he is trying to save would be the most 40k-ish response I could imagine. It would also allow splitting the Imperium into pro-Emprah and anti-Emprah sides, and even the holy 'good' side could still be riddled with faults in appropriately 40k-ish fashion. Unfortunately I don't expect GW to pull the upcoming plot off that well, but I don't see it as impossible either given the corner they turned.
The Imperium is a fractured shadow of its former glories. While Abbadons great black crusade was finally stopped at the 2nd siege of the Imperial palace and the growing Eye of terror pushed back and scattered, the cost was immense. The Astronomican flickers in and out of existence like a candle in a snow storm and dark rumors come from Terra that the Emperor himself has been slain. His returned sons struggle to hold the Imperium together against a rising tide of rebellion and intercine wars between competing factions. The scattered remains of the expanded Eye of terror provide sanctuary to the retreating Chaos forces who watch the Imperium like a pack of hungry predator's.
The Eldar have also fallen to infighting amongst there factions over the alleged return of several of there gods. All while engaged in a three way war with various Necron and Chaos warlords over the newly exposed crone worlds in and around the former Eye of terror. Tyranid bio fleets still reeling from the psychic backlash unleashed by the scattering of the Eye surge and swarm consuming all they find, even other Tyranid fleets.The Tau aggressively surge into new systems while Ork warlords rampage virtually unhindered across a galaxy in flames.
And on a forgotten world far from ancient Terra a new born human child is bathed in a nimbus of golden power and regards its surroundings with eyes that speak of a truly old soul.
Inquisitor Kallus wrote: S long as they don't destroy miniature lines and pee all over the established background for jollys/to sell rediculous stuff then im ok with it. And id rather there wasnt silly scale creep
That horse has long since bolted. I'm not sure closing the gate will do anything at this point....
The release of these Gathering Storm books are awesome. Especially the bringing back of the Primarch. I don't really mind that they brought one back, I mean, look at magnus.
I think that the revival of Roboute Gulliman could have significant effect on the story line - will he be disgusted at the Imperium has become? or will he start Imperium Secundus again etc. All very interesting questions to be answered. I do hope for the latter because maybe another Imperium civil war on the verge?
I hope the Emperor dies. I want to see him reborn and fulfill the Aeldari prophecy of the Star Child. I'm a huge Imperium fan and a space marine player, and I want the Imperium to be on the verge of annihilation
Imperium Primus - Pre heresy, Emperors work in progress.
Imperium Secundus - Roboute Guilliman's attempt to save what he believed was left/power grab/safe room.
Imperium Tertius - Post Heresy, built from what was left of Primus.
Imperium Quadus/Quattor?(Really need a better Latin sounding word for four) - What Guilliman does after breakfast
Edit - Forgot about all the other stuff between the HH and "now" like Nova Terra.
i think it obvious that this is all setting the tone for 8th. im thinking that they looked at the sigmar sales vs WHFB sales, and while not pulling a full sigmar, hope to change things up a bit in 40k enough to generate even more sales. they want marine on marine combat, and they like new swirly whirly gold and blue models. so theres plenty of oppurtunity to dish them out given a new popular faction - esp lore wise its the logical conclusion with Our Liege's history of political ambitions.
so long as our oligarchic space north korean theocracy stays and the emperor still resides "alive" with the flickering astronomican still intact i can handle it. those "aeldarin" knife ears better hook up Our Leige with some FTL tho just in case.
My biggest question is why bring back Guilliman first?
Wouldn't it have been far better to bring back Russ to banish Magnus?
That would have made the writing so much better. Magnus single handedly destroyed a large battle fleet and was proving to be seemingly invincible. Until he gets distracted and the Grey Knights banish him out of nowhere.....
Would've made a lot more sense If Russ showed up with some serious buffs courtesy of Khorne, rallied the Imperial forces and then have EVERYONE throw EVERYTHING at Magnus, who would probably just barely be killed after exhausting Russ' Khorne buffs.
Would've made things more cinematic and would've made the most sense considering they introduced Magnus first.
ThePrimordial wrote: My biggest question is why bring back Guilliman first?
Wouldn't it have been far better to bring back Russ to banish Magnus?
That would have made the writing so much better. Magnus single handedly destroyed a large battle fleet and was proving to be seemingly invincible. Until he gets distracted and the Grey Knights banish him out of nowhere.....
Would've made a lot more sense If Russ showed up with some serious buffs courtesy of Khorne, rallied the Imperial forces and then have EVERYONE throw EVERYTHING at Magnus, who would probably just barely be killed after exhausting Russ' Khorne buffs.
Would've made things more cinematic and would've made the most sense considering they introduced Magnus first.
That sounds pretty bad to me personally and I think RG makes the most sense to come back first considering the current threat the imperium is facing.
ThePrimordial wrote: My biggest question is why bring back Guilliman first?
Wouldn't it have been far better to bring back Russ to banish Magnus?
That would have made the writing so much better. Magnus single handedly destroyed a large battle fleet and was proving to be seemingly invincible. Until he gets distracted and the Grey Knights banish him out of nowhere.....
Would've made a lot more sense If Russ showed up with some serious buffs courtesy of Khorne, rallied the Imperial forces and then have EVERYONE throw EVERYTHING at Magnus, who would probably just barely be killed after exhausting Russ' Khorne buffs.
Would've made things more cinematic and would've made the most sense considering they introduced Magnus first.
That sounds pretty bad to me personally and I think RG makes the most sense to come back first considering the current threat the imperium is facing.
How is that bad? That's literally the most metal thing that could have happened. Its not exactly unlike Khorne to give favor to dudes explicitly against him so long as they spill gratutious amounts of blood...effectively worshipping him anyway.
Is RG gonna politick away the Chaos force heading for the imperium's throat? I know what you're saying: the Imperium's biggest problem right now is a lack of organization....and you're wrong.
Magnus showed up, turned Fenris (a fething ball of ice) into a desert and annihilated one of the most formidable fleets assembled in recent memory...effortlessly. If he were to show up on Terra the Imperium is done.
And hes likely far stronger now given that he has a firm hold in real space now that his daemon world is near Prospero. And there are fething 5 others!!!!
Some undone paperwork isnt as threatening to an empire as daemonic gods barreling down at you like a meteor is. Its that simple
ThePrimordial wrote: My biggest question is why bring back Guilliman first?
Wouldn't it have been far better to bring back Russ to banish Magnus?
That would have made the writing so much better. Magnus single handedly destroyed a large battle fleet and was proving to be seemingly invincible. Until he gets distracted and the Grey Knights banish him out of nowhere.....
Would've made a lot more sense If Russ showed up with some serious buffs courtesy of Khorne, rallied the Imperial forces and then have EVERYONE throw EVERYTHING at Magnus, who would probably just barely be killed after exhausting Russ' Khorne buffs.
Would've made things more cinematic and would've made the most sense considering they introduced Magnus first.
He's the head of the largest faction of marines (ultras and all their successors). He will be able to unite all of them and make a solid stand. That gives time for other forces of chaos to emerge and bring us closer to the brink, and time for other loyal primaries like Alpharius to come to the Emperors defense. This might be a three book arc for this year, but I can see them doing multiple arcs each bringing back a primarch or two. It's a good hype and has everyone talking and building up their forces. Your solution is a quick one and done, people will build one force and then be over it and the story ends with everyone back in their corners again.
Roboute came back first because hes a Primarch that actually did something more than kill people, and has a character that will force other people to react to him.
Russ would cone back and be a general, and thats all he would be. Dorn would stoically bear what is happening, and be a general.
With Guilliman back first, the other loyalists can return and react to the things Guilliman does, since without someone to instigate things i find the rest if the loyalists tend to sit around and build walls, mope, or drink heavily.
ThePrimordial wrote: My biggest question is why bring back Guilliman first?
Wouldn't it have been far better to bring back Russ to banish Magnus?
That would have made the writing so much better. Magnus single handedly destroyed a large battle fleet and was proving to be seemingly invincible. Until he gets distracted and the Grey Knights banish him out of nowhere.....
Would've made a lot more sense If Russ showed up with some serious buffs courtesy of Khorne, rallied the Imperial forces and then have EVERYONE throw EVERYTHING at Magnus, who would probably just barely be killed after exhausting Russ' Khorne buffs.
Would've made things more cinematic and would've made the most sense considering they introduced Magnus first.
That sounds pretty bad to me personally and I think RG makes the most sense to come back first considering the current threat the imperium is facing.
How is that bad? That's literally the most metal thing that could have happened. Its not exactly unlike Khorne to give favor to dudes explicitly against him so long as they spill gratutious amounts of blood...effectively worshipping him anyway.
Is RG gonna politick away the Chaos force heading for the imperium's throat? I know what you're saying: the Imperium's biggest problem right now is a lack of organization....and you're wrong.
Magnus showed up, turned Fenris (a fething ball of ice) into a desert and annihilated one of the most formidable fleets assembled in recent memory...effortlessly. If he were to show up on Terra the Imperium is done.
And hes likely far stronger now given that he has a firm hold in real space now that his daemon world is near Prospero. And there are fething 5 others!!!!
Some undone paperwork isnt as threatening to an empire as daemonic gods barreling down at you like a meteor is. Its that simple
Khorne can't just give out buffs, the other end has to be accepting of it, and if Russ did accept it, he ain't no loyalist.
Roboute is obviously first because he is going to have the greatest impact.
If/when Lion comes back, he's not really going to do much apart from spill the beans on what happened on Caliban and then swing a sword around.
Roboute is going to Terra, with Cypher, and that is going to answer a lot of questions one way or another. Not to mention that GW reiterated the rumor that the sword on his back is the Lion Sword, and based on Guilliman's reaction to it, the iconography of the sword on Cypher's new model, and the size of the sword (Luther was explicitly not the size of a space marine per the lore), it is inconceivable that it is not related to Lion's return in some way.
IMMORTAN_AL wrote: i think it obvious that this is all setting the tone for 8th. im thinking that they looked at the sigmar sales vs WHFB sales, and while not pulling a full sigmar, hope to change things up a bit in 40k enough to generate even more sales. they want marine on marine combat, and they like new swirly whirly gold and blue models. so theres plenty of oppurtunity to dish them out given a new popular faction - esp lore wise its the logical conclusion with Our Liege's history of political ambitions.
so long as our oligarchic space north korean theocracy stays and the emperor still resides "alive" with the flickering astronomican still intact i can handle it. those "aeldarin" knife ears better hook up Our Leige with some FTL tho just in case.
Doing an AoS means different things to different people but it seems fairly obvious they are
A) Moving from the fluff being a setting (ignore the fact there was progress which undermines that point) to an episodic narrative.
B) Moving from having a core number of factions that occasionally get updates to having big alliances with countless potential mini-faction releases.
Consider the Aeldari after Beil-Tan.
You have the Ynnari under Yvraine.
You have Vect's New Commorragh.
You have the Mandrakes and Haemonculi.
You have potentially New Harlequins.
Every Craftworld could have a release based on its "new" experience after the recent events.
You have Exodites and Corsairs.
That would allow for 10-11 releases which would get them well into the next decade.
So I expect the next book will further encourage the Imperium as grand alliance - with the hope that players start thinking of themselves as "Imperium players" rather than just Space Wolf players, Sisters players, Guard players etc.
Following on from that I'd expect Chaos to get the same treatment in the next trilogy along with whatever they are going to do with the Xenos factions.
I dont trust those dirty conniving Xenos for one second, they say they need a Primarch for humanity to rally around.
Surely it's not going to be so simple. Primarch or not, a lot of the Imperial society has become so indoctrinated, they aren't gonna swallow the 'The Emperor is not a God' pill so lightly if RG goes off on one, especially if they know he was rezzed from dirty magic. It could very well risk breaking the Imperium apart.
The Eldar don't care about humanity's salvation, only their own, they planning something brah, I can feel it!
ThePrimordial wrote: My biggest question is why bring back Guilliman first?
Wouldn't it have been far better to bring back Russ to banish Magnus?
That would have made the writing so much better. Magnus single handedly destroyed a large battle fleet and was proving to be seemingly invincible. Until he gets distracted and the Grey Knights banish him out of nowhere.....
Would've made a lot more sense If Russ showed up with some serious buffs courtesy of Khorne, rallied the Imperial forces and then have EVERYONE throw EVERYTHING at Magnus, who would probably just barely be killed after exhausting Russ' Khorne buffs.
Would've made things more cinematic and would've made the most sense considering they introduced Magnus first.
That sounds pretty bad to me personally and I think RG makes the most sense to come back first considering the current threat the imperium is facing.
How is that bad? That's literally the most metal thing that could have happened. Its not exactly unlike Khorne to give favor to dudes explicitly against him so long as they spill gratutious amounts of blood...effectively worshipping him anyway.
Is RG gonna politick away the Chaos force heading for the imperium's throat? I know what you're saying: the Imperium's biggest problem right now is a lack of organization....and you're wrong.
Magnus showed up, turned Fenris (a fething ball of ice) into a desert and annihilated one of the most formidable fleets assembled in recent memory...effortlessly. If he were to show up on Terra the Imperium is done.
And hes likely far stronger now given that he has a firm hold in real space now that his daemon world is near Prospero. And there are fething 5 others!!!!
Some undone paperwork isnt as threatening to an empire as daemonic gods barreling down at you like a meteor is. Its that simple
I think it's things like this which make me hate the use of "metal" to describe anything aside from the actual material.
If Khorne gave Russ his blessing, then Russ must have accepted it - that means Russ is a heretic, and therefore not a suitable Primarch to lead the Imperium.
Just the spillage of blood isn't worship of Khorne. Spilling of blood IN KHORNE'S NAME is worship of him.
RG is (theoretically) going to hold enemy back, and then reform the Imperium into a better fighting state. You see Ultramar, and how successful that is as a state? Imagine that on a galactic scale (if he can unify the Imperium).
If you think a single magick-ed up Daemon Primarch is the Imperium's biggest issue... you're also wrong. Angron, a stronger Daemon Primarch, was defeated by the Grey Knights. Magnus can be defeated similarly, especially is Old Buddy Old Pal Old Friendo Draigo shows up.
If the Imperium stays how it is without a reform and reorganisation, it'll split without anyone even reaching Terra. The strain on the infrastructure, the civil unrest, and the lack of a reinvigorated faith in the Emperor will sent humanity to another Dark Age. And a shattered humanity is a dead one.
Magnus is actually weaker, given his time in real space, and the effort spent on destroying Midgardia. And no, there are not five of him, and even less reason to swear.
Angron is banished.
Lorgar is doing nothing.
Mortarion is banished, not sure for how long.
Fulgrim is active.
Perturabo is active.
Alpharius may as well be dead, we have no idea about him.
So, two Daemon Primarchs active, barring Magnus. Neither has done anything on Magnus' scale before. And even if there were 5, Leman Russ won't be able to stop them. If that is true, the Imperium would need reorganising to even hope to fight them and have a tactician - not a barbarian.
Undone paperwork isn't the biggest threat. Incompetent leaders, such as ones who try to charge in and throw valuable resources at massive threats without any consideration for infrastructure and logistics are the threat to the Imperium right now - deeming them as just "undone paperwork.". The Imperium needs a leader who can hold the line and understand that the "undone paperwork" will grow into a tsunami and crush them all if they can't fix it. Without Guilliman, that can't be fixed.
unmercifulconker wrote: I dont trust those dirty conniving Xenos for one second, they say they need a Primarch for humanity to rally around.
Surely it's not going to be so simple. Primarch or not, a lot of the Imperial society has become so indoctrinated, they aren't gonna swallow the 'The Emperor is not a God' pill so lightly if RG goes off on one, especially if they know he was rezzed from dirty magic. It could very well risk breaking the Imperium apart.
The Eldar don't care about humanity's salvation, only their own, they planning something brah, I can feel it!
According to the White Dwarf and book II:
"... even with the half-awakened Ynnead by their side, they need an ally to change the fate of the galaxy. As the Shadowseer Sylandri Veilwalker gravely says in the story, the Tau are too young, the Orks too unpredictable and the Tyranids out of the question, leaving the unpredictable, easily corruptible humans as the only viable choice. It's not an option that appeals to many of the Eldar."
Yeah , we are unpredictable, says the damn Space Elves with their Farseers shenanigans
TedNugent wrote:Roboute is obviously first because he is going to have the greatest impact.
If/when Lion comes back, he's not really going to do much apart from spill the beans on what happened on Caliban and then swing a sword around.
Roboute is going to Terra, with Cypher, and that is going to answer a lot of questions one way or another. Not to mention that GW reiterated the rumor that the sword on his back is the Lion Sword, and based on Guilliman's reaction to it, the iconography of the sword on Cypher's new model, and the size of the sword (Luther was explicitly not the size of a space marine per the lore), it is inconceivable that it is not related to Lion's return in some way.
And since only the Watchers in the Dark and The Emperor know where Lion El'Jonson is, I would say it would be the Emperor who wakes him or he tells someone about The Lion and then they wake him up.
unmercifulconker wrote:I dont trust those dirty conniving Xenos for one second, they say they need a Primarch for humanity to rally around.
Surely it's not going to be so simple. Primarch or not, a lot of the Imperial society has become so indoctrinated, they aren't gonna swallow the 'The Emperor is not a God' pill so lightly if RG goes off on one, especially if they know he was rezzed from dirty magic. It could very well risk breaking the Imperium apart.
The Eldar don't care about humanity's salvation, only their own, they planning something brah, I can feel it!
And this is why this is so great. What are the Eldar or Ieldara (spelling?) really up to? Where did I just read this? If it takes one million human lives to save one Eldar life, it's worth it for them? So of course they are up to something and I am not an Eldar person, I would still like to know.
unmercifulconker wrote: I dont trust those dirty conniving Xenos for one second, they say they need a Primarch for humanity to rally around.
Surely it's not going to be so simple. Primarch or not, a lot of the Imperial society has become so indoctrinated, they aren't gonna swallow the 'The Emperor is not a God' pill so lightly if RG goes off on one, especially if they know he was rezzed from dirty magic. It could very well risk breaking the Imperium apart.
The Eldar don't care about humanity's salvation, only their own, they planning something brah, I can feel it!
According to the White Dwarf and book II:
"... even with the half-awakened Ynnead by their side, they need an ally to change the fate of the galaxy. As the Shadowseer Sylandri Veilwalker gravely says in the story, the Tau are too young, the Orks too unpredictable and the Tyranids out of the question, leaving the unpredictable, easily corruptible humans as the only viable choice. It's not an option that appeals to many of the Eldar."
Yeah , we are unpredictable, says the damn Space Elves with their Farseers shenanigans
Right up to Eldrad going off the deep end, the Eldar were wholly predictable; if there was a way to save an extra Eldar life, it would be taken. Not their fault you don't have all the info, nor particularly care for the objective.
ThePrimordial wrote: My biggest question is why bring back Guilliman first?
Wouldn't it have been far better to bring back Russ to banish Magnus?
That would have made the writing so much better. Magnus single handedly destroyed a large battle fleet and was proving to be seemingly invincible. Until he gets distracted and the Grey Knights banish him out of nowhere.....
Would've made a lot more sense If Russ showed up with some serious buffs courtesy of Khorne, rallied the Imperial forces and then have EVERYONE throw EVERYTHING at Magnus, who would probably just barely be killed after exhausting Russ' Khorne buffs.
Would've made things more cinematic and would've made the most sense considering they introduced Magnus first.
That sounds pretty bad to me personally and I think RG makes the most sense to come back first considering the current threat the imperium is facing.
How is that bad? That's literally the most metal thing that could have happened. Its not exactly unlike Khorne to give favor to dudes explicitly against him so long as they spill gratutious amounts of blood...effectively worshipping him anyway.
Is RG gonna politick away the Chaos force heading for the imperium's throat? I know what you're saying: the Imperium's biggest problem right now is a lack of organization....and you're wrong.
Magnus showed up, turned Fenris (a fething ball of ice) into a desert and annihilated one of the most formidable fleets assembled in recent memory...effortlessly. If he were to show up on Terra the Imperium is done.
And hes likely far stronger now given that he has a firm hold in real space now that his daemon world is near Prospero. And there are fething 5 others!!!!
Some undone paperwork isnt as threatening to an empire as daemonic gods barreling down at you like a meteor is. Its that simple
I think it's things like this which make me hate the use of "metal" to describe anything aside from the actual material.
If Khorne gave Russ his blessing, then Russ must have accepted it - that means Russ is a heretic, and therefore not a suitable Primarch to lead the Imperium.
Just the spillage of blood isn't worship of Khorne. Spilling of blood IN KHORNE'S NAME is worship of him.
RG is (theoretically) going to hold enemy back, and then reform the Imperium into a better fighting state. You see Ultramar, and how successful that is as a state? Imagine that on a galactic scale (if he can unify the Imperium).
If you think a single magick-ed up Daemon Primarch is the Imperium's biggest issue... you're also wrong. Angron, a stronger Daemon Primarch, was defeated by the Grey Knights. Magnus can be defeated similarly, especially is Old Buddy Old Pal Old Friendo Draigo shows up.
If the Imperium stays how it is without a reform and reorganisation, it'll split without anyone even reaching Terra. The strain on the infrastructure, the civil unrest, and the lack of a reinvigorated faith in the Emperor will sent humanity to another Dark Age. And a shattered humanity is a dead one.
Magnus is actually weaker, given his time in real space, and the effort spent on destroying Midgardia. And no, there are not five of him, and even less reason to swear.
Angron is banished.
Lorgar is doing nothing.
Mortarion is banished, not sure for how long.
Fulgrim is active.
Perturabo is active.
Alpharius may as well be dead, we have no idea about him.
So, two Daemon Primarchs active, barring Magnus. Neither has done anything on Magnus' scale before. And even if there were 5, Leman Russ won't be able to stop them. If that is true, the Imperium would need reorganising to even hope to fight them and have a tactician - not a barbarian.
Undone paperwork isn't the biggest threat. Incompetent leaders, such as ones who try to charge in and throw valuable resources at massive threats without any consideration for infrastructure and logistics are the threat to the Imperium right now - deeming them as just "undone paperwork.". The Imperium needs a leader who can hold the line and understand that the "undone paperwork" will grow into a tsunami and crush them all if they can't fix it. Without Guilliman, that can't be fixed.
ok Lorgar doing nothing can be changed VERY fast, until wraith of magnus, mangus had been "doing nothing" Angron and Mortarian being banished is.. questionable. the warp works in weird ways. if they came back it'd shock me not at alll.
ThePrimordial wrote: My biggest question is why bring back Guilliman first?
Wouldn't it have been far better to bring back Russ to banish Magnus?
That would have made the writing so much better. Magnus single handedly destroyed a large battle fleet and was proving to be seemingly invincible. Until he gets distracted and the Grey Knights banish him out of nowhere.....
Would've made a lot more sense If Russ showed up with some serious buffs courtesy of Khorne, rallied the Imperial forces and then have EVERYONE throw EVERYTHING at Magnus, who would probably just barely be killed after exhausting Russ' Khorne buffs.
Would've made things more cinematic and would've made the most sense considering they introduced Magnus first.
That sounds pretty bad to me personally and I think RG makes the most sense to come back first considering the current threat the imperium is facing.
How is that bad? That's literally the most metal thing that could have happened. Its not exactly unlike Khorne to give favor to dudes explicitly against him so long as they spill gratutious amounts of blood...effectively worshipping him anyway.
Is RG gonna politick away the Chaos force heading for the imperium's throat? I know what you're saying: the Imperium's biggest problem right now is a lack of organization....and you're wrong.
Magnus showed up, turned Fenris (a fething ball of ice) into a desert and annihilated one of the most formidable fleets assembled in recent memory...effortlessly. If he were to show up on Terra the Imperium is done.
And hes likely far stronger now given that he has a firm hold in real space now that his daemon world is near Prospero. And there are fething 5 others!!!!
Some undone paperwork isnt as threatening to an empire as daemonic gods barreling down at you like a meteor is. Its that simple
I think it's things like this which make me hate the use of "metal" to describe anything aside from the actual material.
If Khorne gave Russ his blessing, then Russ must have accepted it - that means Russ is a heretic, and therefore not a suitable Primarch to lead the Imperium.
Just the spillage of blood isn't worship of Khorne. Spilling of blood IN KHORNE'S NAME is worship of him.
RG is (theoretically) going to hold enemy back, and then reform the Imperium into a better fighting state. You see Ultramar, and how successful that is as a state? Imagine that on a galactic scale (if he can unify the Imperium).
If you think a single magick-ed up Daemon Primarch is the Imperium's biggest issue... you're also wrong. Angron, a stronger Daemon Primarch, was defeated by the Grey Knights. Magnus can be defeated similarly, especially is Old Buddy Old Pal Old Friendo Draigo shows up.
If the Imperium stays how it is without a reform and reorganisation, it'll split without anyone even reaching Terra. The strain on the infrastructure, the civil unrest, and the lack of a reinvigorated faith in the Emperor will sent humanity to another Dark Age. And a shattered humanity is a dead one.
Magnus is actually weaker, given his time in real space, and the effort spent on destroying Midgardia. And no, there are not five of him, and even less reason to swear.
Angron is banished.
Lorgar is doing nothing.
Mortarion is banished, not sure for how long.
Fulgrim is active.
Perturabo is active.
Alpharius may as well be dead, we have no idea about him.
So, two Daemon Primarchs active, barring Magnus. Neither has done anything on Magnus' scale before. And even if there were 5, Leman Russ won't be able to stop them. If that is true, the Imperium would need reorganising to even hope to fight them and have a tactician - not a barbarian.
Undone paperwork isn't the biggest threat. Incompetent leaders, such as ones who try to charge in and throw valuable resources at massive threats without any consideration for infrastructure and logistics are the threat to the Imperium right now - deeming them as just "undone paperwork.". The Imperium needs a leader who can hold the line and understand that the "undone paperwork" will grow into a tsunami and crush them all if they can't fix it. Without Guilliman, that can't be fixed.
ok Lorgar doing nothing can be changed VERY fast, until wraith of magnus, mangus had been "doing nothing" Angron and Mortarian being banished is.. questionable. the warp works in weird ways. if they came back it'd shock me not at alll.
Oh of course, but it hasn't changed. I'm working off the current situation, not a hypothetical one.
And in the same vein as Lorgar getting up and doing something, Lion/Russ/Corax/Vulkan/Khan could do the same.
Hm, I see they are bringing back Rawbutt Girlyman. Interesting.
I'm willing to bet that the hair on Matthew Ward's palms are thicker than a tropical rain forest by now.
The thing that really piques my interest in the presence of Cypher among "Team Order". It'll be interesting to see what role he plays in this little game.
Hm, I see they are bringing back Rawbutt Girlyman. Interesting.
I'm willing to bet that the hair on Matthew Ward's palms are thicker than a tropical rain forest by now.
The thing that really piques my interest in the presence of Cypher among "Team Order". It'll be interesting to see what role he plays in this little game.
yeah even as a guy with an Ultramarines and Grey Knights army, with no partiuclar intreast in the dark angels. Cypher strikes me as the real "INTREEEEEEESTING" part here.
I'm also curious what role the "Imperial Trimuvirate" from fall of cadia will have, they'll feature in the story obviously, but will we see say, a celestine/gulliman formation etc?
ThePrimordial wrote: My biggest question is why bring back Guilliman first?
Wouldn't it have been far better to bring back Russ to banish Magnus?
That would have made the writing so much better. Magnus single handedly destroyed a large battle fleet and was proving to be seemingly invincible. Until he gets distracted and the Grey Knights banish him out of nowhere.....
Would've made a lot more sense If Russ showed up with some serious buffs courtesy of Khorne, rallied the Imperial forces and then have EVERYONE throw EVERYTHING at Magnus, who would probably just barely be killed after exhausting Russ' Khorne buffs.
Would've made things more cinematic and would've made the most sense considering they introduced Magnus first.
He's the head of the largest faction of marines (ultras and all their successors). He will be able to unite all of them and make a solid stand. That gives time for other forces of chaos to emerge and bring us closer to the brink, and time for other loyal primaries like Alpharius to come to the Emperors defense. This might be a three book arc for this year, but I can see them doing multiple arcs each bringing back a primarch or two. It's a good hype and has everyone talking and building up their forces. Your solution is a quick one and done, people will build one force and then be over it and the story ends with everyone back in their corners again.
You are probably correct with the slow, long haul theory due to gw and generating sales
unmercifulconker wrote: I dont trust those dirty conniving Xenos for one second, they say they need a Primarch for humanity to rally around.
Surely it's not going to be so simple. Primarch or not, a lot of the Imperial society has become so indoctrinated, they aren't gonna swallow the 'The Emperor is not a God' pill so lightly if RG goes off on one, especially if they know he was rezzed from dirty magic. It could very well risk breaking the Imperium apart.
The Eldar don't care about humanity's salvation, only their own, they planning something brah, I can feel it!
According to the White Dwarf and book II:
"... even with the half-awakened Ynnead by their side, they need an ally to change the fate of the galaxy. As the Shadowseer Sylandri Veilwalker gravely says in the story, the Tau are too young, the Orks too unpredictable and the Tyranids out of the question, leaving the unpredictable, easily corruptible humans as the only viable choice. It's not an option that appeals to many of the Eldar."
Yeah , we are unpredictable, says the damn Space Elves with their Farseers shenanigans
Right up to Eldrad going off the deep end, the Eldar were wholly predictable; if there was a way to save an extra Eldar life, it would be taken. Not their fault you don't have all the info, nor particularly care for the objective.
unmercifulconker wrote: I dont trust those dirty conniving Xenos for one second, they say they need a Primarch for humanity to rally around.
Surely it's not going to be so simple. Primarch or not, a lot of the Imperial society has become so indoctrinated, they aren't gonna swallow the 'The Emperor is not a God' pill so lightly if RG goes off on one, especially if they know he was rezzed from dirty magic. It could very well risk breaking the Imperium apart.
The Eldar don't care about humanity's salvation, only their own, they planning something brah, I can feel it!
According to the White Dwarf and book II:
"... even with the half-awakened Ynnead by their side, they need an ally to change the fate of the galaxy. As the Shadowseer Sylandri Veilwalker gravely says in the story, the Tau are too young, the Orks too unpredictable and the Tyranids out of the question, leaving the unpredictable, easily corruptible humans as the only viable choice. It's not an option that appeals to many of the Eldar."
Yeah , we are unpredictable, says the damn Space Elves with their Farseers shenanigans
Right up to Eldrad going off the deep end, the Eldar were wholly predictable; if there was a way to save an extra Eldar life, it would be taken. Not their fault you don't have all the info, nor particularly care for the objective.
Eldrad went off the deep end?
Depends on your point of view I guess… he obviously thought that having every remaining Eldar die to "save" themselves was a bit off, but then that presupposes that Ynnead was ever going to be a real thing which it seems a whole lot of Eldar were not totally down with. So from their perspective he's gone completely buggo and… is killed the right word? They were already mostly dead… anyway, used a lot of dead Eldar to create an abomination that should never have been. So, yeah, off the deep end just a little, what with the worshiping a god that doesn't exist yet and enacting plans to create it, as though one mortal could do such a thing…
incidentally, it sounds like book 2 had an unconfirmed sighting of Fulgrim, I suspect he'll be the Primarch brought back after Gulliman, assuming they go with a traitor, loyalist, traitor, loyalist, introduction pattern
Just going to step in here and remind everyone that at the end of Wrath of Magnus there's a blurb about how the Space Wolves get a distress call from Cadia. All of the daemon primarchs, even Magnus, are sighted on the planet. Not too sure about anyone being banished anymore. Banished or not, everybody (except Magnus) swore fealty to Abaddon prior to the Black Crusade (Supplement: Black Legion). Angron swore to fight because Abaddon impressed him in his gladiator arena, Mortarion gave Typhus the Zombie Plague to spread for Abaddon and swore to fight because of being given the Hand of Darkness, Fulgrim took the soul of the purest psyker and swore to fight (Pandorax), Perturabo actually didn't need any convincing aside from being reminded of his hatred of the Imperial Fists (also, if memory serves, Abaddon led him to Medusa 5 to attack the Iron Hands' homeworld, so he owes him one) to give Abaddon thousands of daemon engines. Lorgar agreed that the Gods are with Abaddon and gave him the means for creating the Red Path/ teaching him how to summon tonnes of daemons. All of the daemon primarchs are active in the "real world" (not the Warp).
Crazyterran wrote: Lorgar or Fulgrim coming back to fight Roboute would be good. Roboute has to toss Lorgars broken corpse into hell, after all.
No、 Lorgar has studied chaos for 10.000 years and has come to the conclusion that he was wrong and the eldar pantheon is the true pantheon to follow splitting the Wordbearers
ok how's this Logar has spent 10000 years watching the imperium become what it is in the large part due to religon. He now understands what his father was trying to avoid and why he was so angry with him. He renounces chaos and returns to the imperium to correct his mistakes.
I'd contend that most fluff elements are rarely well written in these kind of books. Anything that isn't done by Abnett, ADB,or McNeil is going come off as poor by comparison. I wish that Abnett could be the guy to write some for RG since he easily did a better job than anyone else with Know No Fear and Unremembered Empire.
I do like them moving it forward, it's just not written very well at all. Sometimes it just reads like an average fan fic.
I get that feel as well. It is like Character A bumps into Character B and then they fight....then Character A moves along and bumps into Character C and then they fight...but wait Character D just happens to be in the area and rescues Character A etc... The universe feels small when it seems the unique characters of each faction are the only ones that matter and they all are bound to encounter each other while wandering around. Also "stuff" just seems to happen. A artifact sword just happens to lie at the heart of a major Craftworld but has never been mentioned before now, but which suddenly is critical to the plot. The Triumverate of Ynnead also is flawed I think in terms of characterization when you have 2 of the 3 essentially mute or incapable of coherent conversation.
I do like them moving it forward, it's just not written very well at all. Sometimes it just reads like an average fan fic.
True, either fan fic or a rip-off of something else. The rag-tag fleet fleeing Cadia in Gathering Storm I read like a synopsis of the first couple of episodes of nu-Battlestar Galactica.
Well to be fair, when GW uses new characters they get accused of forcing no names characters on us, instead of focusing on the main characters.
And a McGuffin appearing out of no where and being critical to the story is not a new thing. Happens in comics weekly. The problem is GW's stable of writers isn't skilled enough to make it feel seamless. Also the dread many are feeling about the outcome of the story isn't helping.
I do like them moving it forward, it's just not written very well at all. Sometimes it just reads like an average fan fic.
I get that feel as well. It is like Character A bumps into Character B and then they fight....then Character A moves along and bumps into Character C and then they fight...but wait Character D just happens to be in the area and rescues Character A etc... The universe feels small when it seems the unique characters of each faction are the only ones that matter and they all are bound to encounter each other while wandering around. Also "stuff" just seems to happen. A artifact sword just happens to lie at the heart of a major Craftworld but has never been mentioned before now, but which suddenly is critical to the plot. The Triumverate of Ynnead also is flawed I think in terms of characterization when you have 2 of the 3 essentially mute or incapable of coherent conversation.
Conherent conversation is merely one aspect of characterization, and is not necessary at all for good development - but that all depends kn whether GW wants you to understand the triumvirate or not - you typically don't characterize elements you want to be mysterious or inhuman
Crimson Devil wrote: Well to be fair, when GW uses new characters they get accused of forcing no names characters on us, instead of focusing on the main characters.
This. Exactly this. Look at the furor that we had over Yvraine not being Lady Malys or Visarch not being someone important. It is a losing scenario for GW no matter what they do.
Crimson Devil wrote: Well to be fair, when GW uses new characters they get accused of forcing no names characters on us, instead of focusing on the main characters.
This. Exactly this. Look at the furor that we had over Yvraine not being Lady Malys or Visarch not being someone important. It is a losing scenario for GW no matter what they do.
For me I think it is the pacing. We get these new names appearing and they almost instantly become central to the fate of entire factions and even the entire race, while existing major characters get reduced to second bananas playing the token opposition or being subservient and saying "Yes we must all follow Yvraine". I think if the character of Yvraine had been introduced more gradually such as in earlier works, then her suddenly assuming the role of racial savior (or deranged fanatic prophet depending on interpretation) would be less jarring. Her sudden introduction and insertion is a big analogous IMO to how the old Necrons when introduced were suddenly written in as being behind or involved in important events in the distant past of every faction. It came off as ham-handed.
You mean how the "ancient silver death machines" of the Yngir were in the second edition Codex Imperialis and Codex Eldar for four years before the first necrons showed up? And how the Necrons were instantly connected to those old stories but were left as a mystery raiding force for a year or two before they got a codex which explained things? That sort of subtle introduction?
Besides it's not like there wasn't another thing before all this where Eldrad was the star, plus years of speculation about the nature of Ynnead building up to here.
Seriously, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't: the Necrons were introduced in stages but apparently all anyone remembers is their first codex so clearly the long game doesn't work; let's have everything happen in one book so people don't get confused! But that's too abrupt now?
Crimson Devil wrote: Well to be fair, when GW uses new characters they get accused of forcing no names characters on us, instead of focusing on the main characters.
This. Exactly this. Look at the furor that we had over Yvraine not being Lady Malys or Visarch not being someone important. It is a losing scenario for GW no matter what they do.
I'd expand on this to say that there is nothing they could possibly write that would not be criticized as bad writing, bad plot, a terrible choice, etc. Its worth noting that we rarely ever see references to something being well-written until enough years have passed to let nostalgia set in. Perhaps writing is just harder than people realize, and expectations are set to high. Or maybe it really is just terrible. But once the criticism is done it's still what we have and we can either learn to appreciate the redeeming parts or consign our enjoyment to the trash bin.
Crimson Devil wrote: Well to be fair, when GW uses new characters they get accused of forcing no names characters on us, instead of focusing on the main characters.
This. Exactly this. Look at the furor that we had over Yvraine not being Lady Malys or Visarch not being someone important. It is a losing scenario for GW no matter what they do.
I'd expand on this to say that there is nothing they could possibly write that would not be criticized as bad writing, bad plot, a terrible choice, etc. Its worth noting that we rarely ever see references to something being well-written until enough years have passed to let nostalgia set in. Perhaps writing is just harder than people realize, and expectations are set to high. Or maybe it really is just terrible. But once the criticism is done it's still what we have and we can either learn to appreciate the redeeming parts or consign our enjoyment to the trash bin.
People keep thinking that they will get black library quality writing in a codex, but we have to be realistic in the fact that most stories, even these campaign books are only so much content and the rest of the book is pretty pictures and pages of regurgitated rules. Black library books are 3-400 pages of detail writing compared to these fragments which are supposed to be short overviews. Some of the best series that have been expanded upon over the years weren't even a half page blurb (Babdad wars or even the Horus heresy). All can be expanded later through books or through the white dwarf magazine( or in old days the citadel journal, town cryer, blood bowl magazine and the necromunda magazine.).
Crimson Devil wrote: Well to be fair, when GW uses new characters they get accused of forcing no names characters on us, instead of focusing on the main characters.
This. Exactly this. Look at the furor that we had over Yvraine not being Lady Malys or Visarch not being someone important. It is a losing scenario for GW no matter what they do.
I'd expand on this to say that there is nothing they could possibly write that would not be criticized as bad writing, bad plot, a terrible choice, etc. Its worth noting that we rarely ever see references to something being well-written until enough years have passed to let nostalgia set in. Perhaps writing is just harder than people realize, and expectations are set to high. Or maybe it really is just terrible. But once the criticism is done it's still what we have and we can either learn to appreciate the redeeming parts or consign our enjoyment to the trash bin.
Awhile back I read a blog post about how Nerds don't fall in love with something, We fall in love with it's potential. We gladly look past it's faults and champion what could be. That is until we are forced to look at it in the harsh light of day and see it for what it really is, and hate it.
I think a lot of 40k fans love the grimdark back story, that is..... until they actually read it.
Hm, I see they are bringing back Rawbutt Girlyman. Interesting.
I'm willing to bet that the hair on Matthew Ward's palms are thicker than a tropical rain forest by now.
The thing that really piques my interest in the presence of Cypher among "Team Order". It'll be interesting to see what role he plays in this little game.
yeah even as a guy with an Ultramarines and Grey Knights army, with no partiuclar intreast in the dark angels. Cypher strikes me as the real "INTREEEEEEESTING" part here.
I'm also curious what role the "Imperial Trimuvirate" from fall of cadia will have, they'll feature in the story obviously, but will we see say, a celestine/gulliman formation etc?
With GW and GW's writers, anything is possible, I suppose.
Crimson Devil wrote: Awhile back I read a blog post about how Nerds don't fall in love with something, We fall in love with it's potential. We gladly look past it's faults and champion what could be. That is until we are forced to look at it in the harsh light of day and see it for what it really is, and hate it.
The idea that this somehow applies to 'nerds' and not just people in general is silly. Always remember: Chris Brown has tons of female fans. Tons and tons of them. There's a wonderful example of seeing past the faults (or cognitive dissonance - take your pick).
Crimson Devil wrote: I think a lot of 40k fans love the grimdark back story, that is..... until they actually read it.
With 40K you've got a ton of different writers coming at it from various different perspectives. Without strong editorial to shape that and focus it, you end up with people doing all sorts of crazy things (like Goto, who didn't get 40K in the same way that Gav does, so the resutls are quite different).
Crimson Devil wrote: Awhile back I read a blog post about how Nerds don't fall in love with something, We fall in love with it's potential. We gladly look past it's faults and champion what could be. That is until we are forced to look at it in the harsh light of day and see it for what it really is, and hate it.
The idea that this somehow applies to 'nerds' and not just people in general is silly. Always remember: Chris Brown has tons of female fans. Tons and tons of them. There's a wonderful example of seeing past the faults (or cognitive dissonance - take your pick).
Crimson Devil wrote: I think a lot of 40k fans love the grimdark back story, that is..... until they actually read it.
With 40K you've got a ton of different writers coming at it from various different perspectives. Without strong editorial to shape that and focus it, you end up with people doing all sorts of crazy things (like Goto, who didn't get 40K in the same way that Gav does, so the resutls are quite different).
Alcibiades wrote: Most codexes are written better than most Black Library books, in my opinion. Those are usually horrible.
Indeed, unless Ward is involved. This current plot seems to be heading to the BLbs territory though.
You guys are kidding, surely? AoS campaign fluff, Draigo's Heart Carvery & Grill, Spiritual Liege'ery, the general Big Damn Heroes vibe of the codex fluff, you seriously put that above the Heresy series, Abnett's various series and one-offs, ADB's novels, Bill King, C.L. Werner? Pull the other one, it has got bells on. Even the mid-tier BL authors like McNeill, Swallow, & Counter put out one or two decent books for every gak-tier phone-in bolterporn effort/AoS novel. The Studio's fluff writing hasn't been worth using as bogroll since 5th Ed 40K times and even then it was getting shaky.
As someone has really doesn't mind the advancement of the story, I think there is something to be said about the writing of Fracture.
I felt Fall of Cadia was really fun and enjoyable for 40k fluff fans, but I was definitely disappointed with the Fracture of Biel Tan. it felt really disjointed and the flitting around from one Craftworld to the next with unclear goals made it somewhat tedious to read. It was endless daemon fights with no sense of urgency or stakes. Yvraine was a characterless plot device. At least in FOC we cared abou Creeeddd!
I don't know if it is because GW have trouble with Eldar or are just that much better with Imperial fluff.
Here's hoping that Book 3 goes back to the quality of Fall of Cadia
Alcibiades wrote: Most codexes are written better than most Black Library books, in my opinion. Those are usually horrible.
Indeed, unless Ward is involved. This current plot seems to be heading to the BLbs territory though.
You guys are kidding, surely? AoS campaign fluff, Draigo's Heart Carvery & Grill, Spiritual Liege'ery, the general Big Damn Heroes vibe of the codex fluff, you seriously put that above the Heresy series, Abnett's various series and one-offs, ADB's novels, Bill King, C.L. Werner? Pull the other one, it has got bells on. Even the mid-tier BL authors like McNeill, Swallow, & Counter put out one or two decent books for every gak-tier phone-in bolterporn effort/AoS novel. The Studio's fluff writing hasn't been worth using as bogroll since 5th Ed 40K times and even then it was getting shaky.
Ward's stuff is inane, but the whole big damn überheroes thing originated with BL. It was BL which took the mysterious and evocative HH background from studio fluff and turned it into endless soap-opera about childish superheroes. 99% of the time when someone on the background forum has ridiculous ideas about fluff, like marines being ten feet tall immortal dudes that can jump on the orbit and punch starships to death, turns out their source was some BL book. And here we are now, Primarchs in 40K and 40K will be be like that too.
Crimson wrote: 99% of the time when someone on the background forum has ridiculous ideas about fluff, like marines being ten feet tall immortal dudes that can jump on the orbit and punch starships to death, turns out their source was some BL book.
Well of course, the sheer amount of lore contained in the BL books are orders of magnitude above that which can be drawn from the codices. That's like saying 'there are more idiots in the US than in Sweden'. Duh, of course, because there are 35 times as many people living there.
I remember my good ol' SM codex having things you wouldn't like, from claiming that Terminators are invincible to asserting that CMs are answerable to no one but each other (suck on that Inquisitors & HLOT).
TedNugent wrote: Roboute is obviously first because he is going to have the greatest impact.
If/when Lion comes back, he's not really going to do much apart from spill the beans on what happened on Caliban and then swing a sword around.
I was kinda surprised when Guilliman was announced/spoiled. The latest DA codex made it clear that the Lion is is ready for action and just waiting for his mystic alarm clock to go off.
Also in some ways I think he would be more interesting for the fluff. Guilliman is the ultimate jack-of-all trades Primarch. He might not be the best in any specific area but he has no significant weaknesses either (apart from his neck apparently ). He can fight off a Black Crusade and then help to get the Imperium patched up and running along vaguely sane lines. But can even he handle all the massive tactical threats the Imperium is facing at once? He even has the charisma to help coax along those who may doubt him and avoid an Imperial schism.
The Lion on the other hand is more interesting because he can't/won't do that. He was arguably the greatest general among the Primarch's after Horus. But he was also cold, distant and arrogant. He executed one of his own men for questioning his decision to overturn the Edict of Nikea. If he came back he might even be better from a military point of view than Guilliman but he would also exacerbate every other problem the Imperium has with his "my way or the highway" attitude.
I think the Lion would have a greater impact on the Imperium even than Guilliman but possibly not the desired one.
I disagree. The Lion would focus on defeating Chaos and not care much what the Imperium does as long as they support his efforts. Guilliman would be far more disruptive since the corruption of the Emperor's Vision would be a higher priority for him.
So what we're saying is that Both of them would either create an equilibrium as the two brothers work together.... or become a second civil war as the two grind gears and clash over methods while also fighting Chaos/other threats?
Because from the rumors, Guilliman is just the FIRST Imperial Primarch returning.
Well, since the Emperor is now (almost) a full on God in 40K, due to the way that works in 40K World, wouldn't it be ironic if Lorgar is now proven right, the Emperor becomes the 5th "Chaos" God - Malal in all but name most likely - and then Lorgar is now...'Loyalist' as he will follow the God Emperor over the other 4 who possibly have let him down?
Alcibiades wrote: Most codexes are written better than most Black Library books, in my opinion. Those are usually horrible.
You must not read very much. The average codex nowadays is just a bad comic book that appeals to those that only want their favorite superhero to fight baddies.. with no plot continuity.
Ohh wait, so what if the Emperor wasn't a god in the first place but since most of his presence was/is in the warp since his partial death, could all of humanity's emotional faith turned his entity into a god like being, like how the Eldar's funky funky birthed Slaanesh. Is that how it works? That would be pretty cool.
Alcibiades wrote: Most codex are written better than most Black Library books, in my opinion. Those are usually horrible.
You must not read very much. The average codex nowadays is just a bad comic book that appeals to those that only want their favorite superhero to fight baddies.. with no plot continuity.
Not an attack on you....more of a comment towards the common notion that everything is art. Warhammer 40k is entertainment, not art....just like actors/actresses are entertainment and not art.
Determining if a book/Codex is good or not can be measured by how much it entertains, not by the quality of it's writing. Moby Dick is considered a Classic work of art................we all understand what they are saying, but the book is awful and doesn't entertain anymore.
I bought Rogue Trader in 1985 and loved every piece of it, but it's not art.
back on topic,
I like the presentation of this story line and I hope it continues into the future. I'm even more eager to see what changes 8th edition brings.
Angels of Caliban has some good stuff in it about the differences between the two Primarchs. The Lion is all about fixing the problem in a absolutely direct path that solves it, and he doesn't have a problem using anything at his hands to solve it. (Kind of a Radical point point of view). To Guilliman you have to solve the problem in the right way, or why did you even fight.
The Lion would say that that he cares whether the War is won, don't ask him about the means used.
So when is Rise of the Primarch featuring in white dwarf? March?
I'm still adjusting to this new GW. Actually previewing and hyping up releases months in advance. I keep popping into Tescos and wondering why the latest issue with the primarch isnt out yet.
yeah even as a guy with an Ultramarines and Grey Knights army, with no partiuclar intreast in the dark angels. Cypher strikes me as the real "INTREEEEEEESTING" part here.
I've read whatever Cypher stuff I could easily find. He seems just like a stock plot deus ex machina.
But that does ofc mean whatever he does do will be huge.
yeah even as a guy with an Ultramarines and Grey Knights army, with no partiuclar intreast in the dark angels. Cypher strikes me as the real "INTREEEEEEESTING" part here.
I've read whatever Cypher stuff I could easily find. He seems just like a stock plot deus ex machina.
But that does ofc mean whatever he does do will be huge.
Yeah he seems to be a walking get of jail free card for the writers, if they want to maintain the status quo cypher can kill whover wins abbadon't or Robot Girlyman.
They want to massively shake things up then again whoever wins imp or chaos cypher can kill the emperor causing him to be reborn and starting a new age where the emperor can screw with the victor.
They can use him to stir drama with the 9th traitor legion and the worst kept secret in 40k.
So on and so forth.
Perhaps if you read it on an unreliable site, you shouldnt repost it in the first place
I consider it reliable or take the site for what it is, gathers rumours. I just know a few people get upset on here when ever that name or BoLS gets mentioned. I didn't want people chiming in about that. Didn't want to read posts on how bunk those sites are.
*edit*
I didn't see it as a problem. Someone asked a question if there were rumours of new fluff coming out. I answered what I read today. What is wrong in trying to help someone by answering their question? It was the first time I read the "Age of Emperor" actually being used as a title. Someone asked for rumours, I just mentioned what I read today. No foul was ment at all.
Davor wrote: I ment no troll post at all Lord Kragan or do you mean Ntfka was trolling?
No no, I meant Naftka. I think this someone trying to make fun of people. Age of the Emperor has always been a community meme and it's just too much coincidence that they went and "named" the new edition with a name with such a malus on it.
kodos wrote: Do we start now our own Version of 40k or should we jump to WP FireFight?
It's naftka we are talking about. I bet anyone ten euros that this is a troll post.
it is not funny anymore, because the same was said after round bases for fantasy were announced
actually I don't really care if it is true, 8th won't getting better and I will skip it anyway
question is just, if GW kill it instandly there is a chance to make a fan based rule set, if they do it not WP is the only alternative
yeah even as a guy with an Ultramarines and Grey Knights army, with no partiuclar intreast in the dark angels. Cypher strikes me as the real "INTREEEEEEESTING" part here.
I've read whatever Cypher stuff I could easily find. He seems just like a stock plot deus ex machina.
But that does ofc mean whatever he does do will be huge.
Yeah he seems to be a walking get of jail free card for the writers, if they want to maintain the status quo cypher can kill whover wins abbadon't or Robot Girlyman.
They want to massively shake things up then again whoever wins imp or chaos cypher can kill the emperor causing him to be reborn and starting a new age where the emperor can screw with the victor.
They can use him to stir drama with the 9th traitor legion and the worst kept secret in 40k.
So on and so forth.
Him killing some major character is not what I'm referring to.
He is going to be the fulcrum for whatever comes next.
Basically his past lore involves him roaming around the universe, jumping in and out of time potholes and snatching unusual things. Whatever he is doing involves 10,000 years, an obscure secret objective, and a lot of silly mysteries.
One example is him showing up and leaving the lion helm and sword of secrets in an accessible location for the DA to access. He also is carrying a sword on his back of unclear but obvious importance. I'm thinking he is related to either another Primarch coming back, or some kind of revelation related to the Imperium. Obviously he convinces Guilliman to take him to Terra, and he also convinced Asmodai to let him go, so whatever he knows is going to be cataclysmic.
I consider it reliable or take the site for what it is, gathers rumours. I just know a few people get upset on here when ever that name or BoLS gets mentioned. I didn't want people chiming in about that. Didn't want to read posts on how bunk those sites are.
Yet, here we are.
Know why?
Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (420 TRUE) / (858 FALSE) / (78 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - Updated 1/10/2017
That's barely a 30% accuracy rate, without accounting for how many of that 420 were self evident, easily predicted or simple luck.
You'll notice Alpharius' warning calls for actual, verifiable proof. Let me give you a little lesson in sources (because god knows if you put any stock in Natfka you need it) the article you link to has no citation, no quotation and is authored by nobody with any inherent authority. It has zero value as anything other than an opinion piece, with the extra cherry of sounding plausible just to sucker in those extra few people.
No wonder "fake news" is getting so much traction when the populace at large is so willing to accept such insubstantial rubbish at face value. Try and be slightly less credulous, and look at the quality of the source before thoughtlessly regurgitating it and muddying the waters with worthless non-info.
kodos wrote: Do we start now our own Version of 40k or should we jump to WP FireFight?
It's naftka we are talking about. I bet anyone ten euros that this is a troll post.
it is not funny anymore, because the same was said after round bases for fantasy were announced
actually I don't really care if it is true, 8th won't getting better and I will skip it anyway
question is just, if GW kill it instandly there is a chance to make a fan based rule set, if they do it not WP is the only alternative
So you've seen 8th edition already? Please tell us what changes are in it.
kodos wrote: Do we start now our own Version of 40k or should we jump to WP FireFight?
It's naftka we are talking about. I bet anyone ten euros that this is a troll post.
it is not funny anymore, because the same was said after round bases for fantasy were announced
actually I don't really care if it is true, 8th won't getting better and I will skip it anyway
question is just, if GW kill it instandly there is a chance to make a fan based rule set, if they do it not WP is the only alternative
So you've seen 8th edition already? Please tell us what changes are in it.
Bad ones only bad things can come from the future. The past was always better lol
When ever you join tends to be close to if not exactly perfect. Then as things move farther away from said time frame things get worse for you. So no matter what changes atleast 50% will be pissed.
Back to topic. Is this the last book or is there going to be more The Gathering Storm books? I thought it was a trilogy. The White Dwarf magazine makes it like there could be more.
Do we know for sure this is the ending of a trilogy or just a continuation as the WD seems to suggests when it says "continues"? n
Davor wrote: Back to topic. Is this the last book or is there going to be more The Gathering Storm books? I thought it was a trilogy. The White Dwarf magazine makes it like there could be more.
Do we know for sure this is the ending of a trilogy or just a continuation as the WD seems to suggests when it says "continues"? n
I'm still guessing its the end of a trilogy that leads into another trilogy that leads into 8th
I don't need to see it to make this conclusion
Been with the game since the 3rd Edition and it was getting worse with each one
Main reason is because of the style how GW make new Editions, Copy&Paste old rules, change some stuff that sounds cool, set a design goal for the first new faction book and change the design goal after 6 months
nothing will change, because GW never tried to make an edition better than the last one, just different
and if the system get the necessary reboot, we will get an AoS like system, which means and below average rule set (and AoS is not bad, there are just better fantasy skirmish systems out there)
Maybe this is your first Edition change in 40k, than it is ok to think it will be better, but after you have seen 3 of them you will know that they just don't care about rules or how to improve gameplay
On a simple branding level, you do not run a business with two main products, both wholly different, yet both called "Warhammer... Age Of..." That's just Trump-level stupid. Can't believe people give that rumour the time of day.
JohnnyHell wrote: On a simple branding level, you do not run a business with two main products, both wholly different, yet both called "Warhammer... Age Of..." That's just Trump-level stupid. Can't believe people give that rumour the time of day.
Trump was elected President. Your argument is invalid.
God, 4chan's tg has gone insane over some rumour a madman has made up. Seriously guys, 1st of april is supposed to be 44 days away yet and I see we have plenty of people falling for these things.
I don't believe that this Age of Emperor rumour is true, but the, this is the same company who tought their customers would like to fart, prance around and insult their opponents to get a re-roll, so I can't completely discount it.
streetsamurai wrote: I don't believe that this Age of Emperor rumour is true, but the, this is the same company who tought their customers would like to fart, prance around and insult their opponents to get a re-roll, so I can't completely discount it.
I've seen plenty of gamers do all three of those at once without the primise of a reroll, so you never know.
streetsamurai wrote: I don't believe that this Age of Emperor rumour is true, but the, this is the same company who tought their customers would like to fart, prance around and insult their opponents to get a re-roll, so I can't completely discount it.
I've seen plenty of gamers do all three of those at once without the primise of a reroll, so you never know.
Someone I was chatting with said he heard that these triumvirate boxes come with the rules for the models in the boxes. Is this true, or are they only available in the books? If they do come in the boxes that would be kind-of new for GW (although they have done this a little in the past).
Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (420 TRUE) / (858 FALSE) / (78 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - Updated 1/10/2017
That's barely a 30% accuracy rate, without accounting for how many of that 420 were self evident, easily predicted or simple luck.
This has always bothered me. Isn't Natfka just an aggregator, reporting everything that comes out regardless of how wafer thin it might be? Seems somewhat unfair to call someone on their reliability when they're not trying to be reliable but rather just a font of all information, no matter how tenuous.
In other words, isn't Natfka less a case of "Here's what's happening next!!!" and more a case of "Here's what we heard what's happening next, do with it what you will.".
Taco Bell on the other hand get their rep from posting "fresh" rumours about 1-2 weeks after everyone else.
And how does one get that? We don't get verifiable proof until the WD hits, and up into that we can say that all rumours are nonsense. Again, it seems unfair to say that if you cannot verify a rumour you can't talk about nor present it. Besides, a verified rumour is an oxymoron. If it's verified, it's not a rumour.
If we can't discuss rumours without someone going "You need proof! Citation needed mother fether!!!" then why discuss them at all?
Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (420 TRUE) / (858 FALSE) / (78 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - Updated 1/10/2017
That's barely a 30% accuracy rate, without accounting for how many of that 420 were self evident, easily predicted or simple luck.
This has always bothered me. Isn't Natfka just an aggregator, reporting everything that comes out regardless of how wafer thin it might be? Seems somewhat unfair to call someone on their reliability when they're not trying to be reliable but rather just a font of all information, no matter how tenuous.
In other words, isn't Natfka less a case of "Here's what's happening next!!!" and more a case of "Here's what we heard what's happening next, do with it what you will.".
Taco Bell on the other hand get their rep from posting "fresh" rumours about 1-2 weeks after everyone else.
There is one author, if another source is cited then Pretre attributes the accuracy to that source, therefore anything attributed to Naftka is invariably baseless nonsense that is written entirely to drive traffic with absolutely no regard to the accuracy of the content, ie clickbait.
Perhaps if you read it on an unreliable site, you shouldnt repost it in the first place
I consider it reliable or take the site for what it is, gathers rumours. I just know a few people get upset on here when ever that name or BoLS gets mentioned. I didn't want people chiming in about that. Didn't want to read posts on how bunk those sites are.
*edit*
I didn't see it as a problem. Someone asked a question if there were rumours of new fluff coming out. I answered what I read today. What is wrong in trying to help someone by answering their question? It was the first time I read the "Age of Emperor" actually being used as a title. Someone asked for rumours, I just mentioned what I read today. No foul was ment at all.
Problem is that's about as useful rumour as me claiming 8th edition will be called "Revenge of the Squats!". Either way made up junk.
edit: And the way nafka works wouldn't surprise me if that title soon pops up there as "from reliable anonymous source". They do love to create clickbait "rumours" for money.
Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (420 TRUE) / (858 FALSE) / (78 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - Updated 1/10/2017
That's barely a 30% accuracy rate, without accounting for how many of that 420 were self evident, easily predicted or simple luck.
This has always bothered me. Isn't Natfka just an aggregator, reporting everything that comes out regardless of how wafer thin it might be? Seems somewhat unfair to call someone on their reliability when they're not trying to be reliable but rather just a font of all information, no matter how tenuous.
In other words, isn't Natfka less a case of "Here's what's happening next!!!" and more a case of "Here's what we heard what's happening next, do with it what you will.".
Taco Bell on the other hand get their rep from posting "fresh" rumours about 1-2 weeks after everyone else.
There is one author, if another source is cited then Pretre attributes the accuracy to that source, therefore anything attributed to Naftka is invariably baseless nonsense that is written entirely to drive traffic with absolutely no regard to the accuracy of the content, ie clickbait.
Exactly. One has to remember that Natfka has a habit of getting a rumour "from Anonymous" or saying "I've heard this..." without attributing it to anyone in particular themselves.
Because of that the rumour gets attributed to them, because they're the only discernible name attached to it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: This has always bothered me. Isn't Natfka just an aggregator, reporting everything that comes out regardless of how wafer thin it might be? Seems somewhat unfair to call someone on their reliability when they're not trying to be reliable but rather just a font of all information, no matter how tenuous.
In other words, isn't Natfka less a case of "Here's what's happening next!!!" and more a case of "Here's what we heard what's happening next, do with it what you will."
This has always been Natfka's defense when grumbling over Pretre's tracker. The response is always: Cite your sources! He's just regurgitating bollocks with no attempt at filtering. If he really is just passing on information, he could do worse than to start filtering out those sources that always turn out to be inaccurate or outright false. Perhaps even keep his own internal tracker to see who is the more accurate...
It was more "There is something for every army this year" in that 2016 year end video.
There could be something else after Gathering Storm III. Maybe they'll have a short vignette about the Tau stumbling across some Necrons and then for 3 months, the Orks and...everyone? have anuvah go. Or maybe we'll go straight into the full 13 Black Crusade reaches Terra and all hell breaks loose!
Dunno yet. But Gathering storm is just 3 books according to February WD.
It was more "There is something for every army this year" in that 2016 year end video.
There could be something else after Gathering Storm III. Maybe they'll have a short vignette about the Tau stumbling across some Necrons and then for 3 months, the Orks and...everyone? have anuvah go. Or maybe we'll go straight into the full 13 Black Crusade reaches Terra and all hell breaks loose!
Dunno yet. But Gathering storm is just 3 books according to February WD.
Well the storm gathers then their will be a tempest, then the full storm then the aftermath.
It was more "There is something for every army this year" in that 2016 year end video.
There could be something else after Gathering Storm III. Maybe they'll have a short vignette about the Tau stumbling across some Necrons and then for 3 months, the Orks and...everyone? have anuvah go. Or maybe we'll go straight into the full 13 Black Crusade reaches Terra and all hell breaks loose!
Dunno yet. But Gathering storm is just 3 books according to February WD.
When a storm gathers, it has to break.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a short few months break with a new AoS campaign book series then back into picking up where the storm breaks.
Well the storm gathers then their will be a tempest, then the full storm then the aftermath.
That makes the most sense, yes, but has anyone actually said that they are going straight into the "full storm" at this time? They could do that now, or 6 months from now and do something else for a bit.
Do not quote me here but isn't it confirmed it is a three part trilogy. Not gathering storm 1/2/3 only but like.
Gathering storm 1/2/3 , series two 1/2/3, series three 1/2/3
I thought that was mentioned but I may be off, think it was mentioned long ago in this topic. One was the gathering, one was the approach one was the ending or close to kinda like a rebirth.
As I've mentioned before, I think 8th Edition got pushed back from its original intended release. My guess is we'll see at least two more campaigns leading in to it.
And as far as quoting rumors from Nafka, it's kind of like using Wikipedia in a research paper. There's nothing wrong with getting some information there, but make sure to check the sources first and then link to the source instead.
EnTyme wrote: As I've mentioned before, I think 8th Edition got pushed back from its original intended release. My guess is we'll see at least two more campaigns leading in to it.
I think you're right, but I don't think it's necessarily them pushing it back.
And as far as quoting rumors from Nafka, it's kind of like using Wikipedia in a research paper. There's nothing wrong with getting some information there, but make sure to check the sources first and then link to the source instead.
That's not too far off, but I'd go a step further and say it's like doing a review of a TV show/video game/whatever by using a fanmade Wikia that doesn't source the submissions.
Someone I was chatting with said he heard that these triumvirate boxes come with the rules for the models in the boxes. Is this true, or are they only available in the books? If they do come in the boxes that would be kind-of new for GW (although they have done this a little in the past).
Yes, the stats and special rules for the trivumerate characters come in the boxes - at least it did for the first set.
Someone I was chatting with said he heard that these triumvirate boxes come with the rules for the models in the boxes. Is this true, or are they only available in the books? If they do come in the boxes that would be kind-of new for GW (although they have done this a little in the past).
Yes, the stats and special rules for the trivumerate characters come in the boxes - at least it did for the first set.
It does not cover all the special rules for each character IIRC - eg not the ones that Celestine can grant to different unit types one per game
It was more "There is something for every army this year" in that 2016 year end video.
There could be something else after Gathering Storm III. Maybe they'll have a short vignette about the Tau stumbling across some Necrons and then for 3 months, the Orks and...everyone? have anuvah go. Or maybe we'll go straight into the full 13 Black Crusade reaches Terra and all hell breaks loose!
Dunno yet. But Gathering storm is just 3 books according to February WD.
When a storm gathers, it has to break.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a short few months break with a new AoS campaign book series then back into picking up where the storm breaks.
Joyboozer wrote: Orks vs tyranids, the result of which, tyranids ingest so much ork DNA, they become one force.
Could be tyranids vs Necrons, tyranids assault a world with little life on it as a snack on its way towards xyz planet and it turns out to be a tomb world . The fight comes down to a last tyranids and a flayed one that won't give up its human skin jacket. Of course this idea might have been scrapped due to the whole P.E.T.A. thing a few weeks ago
How about a Crimson Fists v. Orks grudge match? Captain Cortez should be back with the Chapter by now. I bet he is itching to shove a grenade down an Ork's throat.
Someone I was chatting with said he heard that these triumvirate boxes come with the rules for the models in the boxes. Is this true, or are they only available in the books? If they do come in the boxes that would be kind-of new for GW (although they have done this a little in the past).
Yes, the stats and special rules for the trivumerate characters come in the boxes - at least it did for the first set.
It does not cover all the special rules for each character IIRC - eg not the ones that Celestine can grant to different unit types one per game
Yeah the rules in the box don't include Celestine's Saintly Blessings. I don't think they include the relics she unlocks either, but I'm not sure about that one.
I don't mean this in any snarky way, I really smile at that. 
That could be the moment Cypher was given his mysterious mission, the one concerning the Lion's Blade 
off chainsword upon a battered building or big alien skull. 
