LightKing wrote: Why do people treat Cypher like he is one individual
i like to think "Cypher" is a moniker that many fallen angels since the heresy have held, eventually being passed on?
or is it confirmed that its just one guy?
This was always a possibility, however there are certain elements of Cypher that were unique and hard to replicate with a limited pool of talent. His exceptional gun slinging skills, the relic he carries and most importantly if it is still part of his fluff and mechanics, his way of seemingly avoiding death that seems all but certain.
I believe it is one man, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't.
LightKing wrote: Why do people treat Cypher like he is one individual
i like to think "Cypher" is a moniker that many fallen angels since the heresy have held, eventually being passed on?
or is it confirmed that its just one guy?
This was always a possibility, however there are certain elements of Cypher that were unique and hard to replicate with a limited pool of talent. His exceptional gun slinging skills, the relic he carries and most importantly if it is still part of his fluff and mechanics, his way of seemingly avoiding death that seems all but certain.
I believe it is one man, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't.
daemonish wrote: I am kind of dissapointed that the Nids have had no part to play so far. My only hope is that there will be a future release of books that centre around a mass tyranid incursion.
Tyranids had the Shield of Baal event not that long ago with the Blood Angels (you will also notice there have been no Blood Angels so far as well)
LightKing wrote: Why do people treat Cypher like he is one individual
i like to think "Cypher" is a moniker that many fallen angels since the heresy have held, eventually being passed on?
or is it confirmed that its just one guy?
This was always a possibility, however there are certain elements of Cypher that were unique and hard to replicate with a limited pool of talent. His exceptional gun slinging skills, the relic he carries and most importantly if it is still part of his fluff and mechanics, his way of seemingly avoiding death that seems all but certain.
I believe it is one man, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't.
It didn't say anything about them in the article. They're going to be drawing it out over the week.
From what Warhams said, I think it would be the Sicarius, Honor Guard, unit of Sternguard or Vanguard formation. Adds 1 to their WS/BS and allows Guilliman to Look Out, Sir with models in the formation.
What I 100% need to know is whether or not the Fallen Champions formation is 100% confirmed to be just Cypher and 3 units of Fallen or if it's the Triumvirate.
There's also a Victrix strike force.
Victrix Strike Force Detachment.
do we know anything about that yet? I've heard someone use the phrase "decurion" so I'm curious. especially as the ultramarines didn't get a unique decurion with AOD, and Gulliman makes one of the big advantages of the Gladius redundant.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Samsonov wrote: I think the response to all this shows quite some different audiences are in the community. We have the biggest change to 40K background in 25 years and most people are discussing the rules for a couple of models, ones who will only be used in some games and then only be one component of those games.
However, I think the people who are most interested in background are likely to be buying less than those who are interested in the rules for the latest models, so perhaps GW is taking the correct approach when it comes to selling models.
part of it is because the leaks we're getting are rules details. meanwhile everyone doing leaking has specificly said they're being mum on the fluff so as "not to spoil" so I think that explains it. the implications of this are immense, but there's only so much we can do without many facts. and those who have the spoilers aren't posting them.
So the new Fallen faction is explicitly not Battle Brothers with Dark Angels (no huge surprise)... but what ARE they?
They aren't listed under any other category, not even Come the Apocalypse.
Makes me wonder.
Re: Voldus
He's certainly expensive, but all I see getting discussed is the Nemesis DH swinging at initiative (adding in Hammerhand, doesn't that potentially equal S10/AP2? Seems pretty potent to me, but admittedly mostly against 2+ MC, since Halberds are plenty-strong enough with Hammerhand to deal with any other MC) and his ML3.
What I don't see being addressed is the rumor that Voldus has an extra power (which unfortunately must be rolled on Sanctic) and has access to more disciplines: Geokinesis, Librarius, Fulmination, and Technomancy.
He might still not be the best for his points, but that might make him slightly more worthwhile, no?
Most people say GK libbies can roll on those trees per RAI so Voldus isn't unique there. Generating an extra Sanctic power is a GK Warlord Trait. I think Voldus only gets it if he is the Warlord and any GK Lib has a 1/6 chance (re-rollable) of getting it too. Normal Libs can also take an artifact that gives yet another Sanctic power.
So they're good traits of Voldus, yeah, but they don't exactly stand out since they are available to generics too.
Unusual Suspect wrote: So the new Fallen faction is explicitly not Battle Brothers with Dark Angels (no huge surprise)... but what ARE they?
They aren't listed under any other category, not even Come the Apocalypse.
Makes me wonder.
Re: Voldus
He's certainly expensive, but all I see getting discussed is the Nemesis DH swinging at initiative (adding in Hammerhand, doesn't that potentially equal S10/AP2? Seems pretty potent to me, but admittedly mostly against 2+ MC, since Halberds are plenty-strong enough with Hammerhand to deal with any other MC) and his ML3.
What I don't see being addressed is the rumor that Voldus has an extra power (which unfortunately must be rolled on Sanctic) and has access to more disciplines: Geokinesis, Librarius, Fulmination, and Technomancy.
He might still not be the best for his points, but that might make him slightly more worthwhile, no?
Potentially, especially since RAW he's technically the only Grey Knight with access to the SM Disciplines (unless GS3 officially gives other GKs access to them too).
It's not like GKs are bleeding for Santic powers though, especially when they have a relic that can do that same thing.
He's not too bad but he's not too good either, which is nice for once. However aside from the @ I Daemonhammer and ML3 on a Grandmaster he isn't really that unique. I'd rather him have some unique special rule that gives a small buff to his army (like the ability to re-roll the Warp Charge generation dice at the start of the Psychic Phase, or a unique psychic power that's basically a bubble version of one of the Santic buffs).
If I had a GK army and the model I could see myself using him on occasion though.
I think Voldus is a fine Imperial character, but a terrible grey knight character. He gives nothing to the Grey Knights don't already have a lot, and he comes in at 5 points less than Draigo, who I think anyone would agree is better in almost every way.
Has there been any indication if the individuals in the Triumvirate of the Primarch can be used in any Armies of the Imperium army? Much the same way the members of the previous Triumvirates can be used in any appropriate army? Cypher has his previous rule where he can be used asome a slotless HQ, but what about Big Blue and Voldus? They would be great in just about any Imperium army. With all of his Command Traits, Guilliman is certainly going to be fun.
Well, with that leak of the Fallen Angels rules, they have officially made it nearly impossible for me to use Cypher at all. He can't go with my Dark Angels, which makes sense fluffwise so I'm okay with that, but now they are CtA with my Daemonkin and Desperate Allies with my Tau. I guess I'll have to bulk out my regular CSM forces if I want to play with Cypher. Here's hoping I can make use of the other two without needing to start a new army (especially since I already preordered the new Triumvirate at my FLGS).
ZergSmasher wrote: Well, with that leak of the Fallen Angels rules, they have officially made it nearly impossible for me to use Cypher at all. He can't go with my Dark Angels, which makes sense fluffwise so I'm okay with that, but now they are CtA with my Daemonkin and Desperate Allies with my Tau. I guess I'll have to bulk out my regular CSM forces if I want to play with Cypher. Here's hoping I can make use of the other two without needing to start a new army (especially since I already preordered the new Triumvirate at my FLGS).
What exactly were you expecting? That alliance chart a LOT of sense.
ZergSmasher wrote: Well, with that leak of the Fallen Angels rules, they have officially made it nearly impossible for me to use Cypher at all. He can't go with my Dark Angels, which makes sense fluffwise so I'm okay with that, but now they are CtA with my Daemonkin and Desperate Allies with my Tau. I guess I'll have to bulk out my regular CSM forces if I want to play with Cypher. Here's hoping I can make use of the other two without needing to start a new army (especially since I already preordered the new Triumvirate at my FLGS).
What exactly were you expecting? That alliance chart a LOT of sense.
Oh, I'm not disputing that. It does make sense; I just hoped I'd be able to at least be AoC with Daemonkin.
Colpicklejar wrote: I think Voldus is a fine Imperial character, but a terrible grey knight character. He gives nothing to the Grey Knights don't already have a lot, and he comes in at 5 points less than Draigo, who I think anyone would agree is better in almost every way.
I think his main value is going to be similar to the other Triumvirate SCs.
Slot into Imperial Army of your choice.
I will admit that's a personal bugbear of mind, largely cause the Slot into Faction X army of your Choice approach should have been applied to Magnus and Be'lakor to be honest (as Magnus is CSM only and Be'lakor's printed datasheet is Daemon only :( ) as it makes sense to find Be'lakor in a CSM army and to find Magnus leading a Tzeentchian Daemon host....
daemonish wrote: I am kind of dissapointed that the Nids have had no part to play so far. My only hope is that there will be a future release of books that centre around a mass tyranid incursion.
Tyranids had the Shield of Baal event not that long ago with the Blood Angels (you will also notice there have been no Blood Angels so far as well)
Yet the Tyranid fleets are bearing down on the universe, incursions becoming more frequent and more cunning. At some point, there will be another big campaign, and I think it might even rival the Gathering Storm in the ripples it could create. As it does not just matter to the Imperium and Chaos, but to ALL races in the galaxy (barring Necrons I suppose).
daemonish wrote: I am kind of dissapointed that the Nids have had no part to play so far. My only hope is that there will be a future release of books that centre around a mass tyranid incursion.
Tyranids had the Shield of Baal event not that long ago with the Blood Angels (you will also notice there have been no Blood Angels so far as well)
Yet the Tyranid fleets are bearing down on the universe, incursions becoming more frequent and more cunning. At some point, there will be another big campaign, and I think it might even rival the Gathering Storm in the ripples it could create. As it does not just matter to the Imperium and Chaos, but to ALL races in the galaxy (barring Necrons I suppose).
It makes sense for them to focus on what they perceive to be their big players in the universe. Hopefully it will mean that they will focus on other races in similar ways.
why does Roboute have green leafs on his head, reminds me of Julius Ceasar
Just answered your own question there.
Just to explain this a bit further the Ultramarines have a massive Greek/Roman theme which isn't always evident in the current chapter, but it's there and tends to show up in the stories around Ultramar.
I see they updated the GW webshop, Fallen are now officially and army.. only the the fallen champions, DA veterans and triumvirates are available tho.. the rules will probably be a copy/paste of the previous ones + bb with imperials - DISAPPOINTED EDIT: go ninja go ninja go
Victrix looks good. No free transports, but I’m not sad to see that go. ObSec for all non-vehicles is very nice. The ability to stack doctrines is going to be very situational. I liked the fact that you needed to choose personally. I suspect it will have access to all the auxiliaries I care about, so will probably turn into my new default.
Banner is pricy, but worth flying. Especially if we are footslogging across the table with RG.
Crazyterran wrote: Let's see what Formations are in the book before I get super excited about the Victrix, and more specifically, what the Victrix is made up of.
(AKA Skyhammer please)
I'm curious what the CORE will be, the standard demi battle company's special rules would be pretty much redundant in said task force. so will Ultramarines just have to deal with it? are they getting a NEW "UM specific" demi battle company? or access to one of the new ones in AoD? or will it be an entirely new way of doing the core right from the bare bones? so many possiabilities, it excites me!
The Victrix's sole difference (speaking solely about command benefits) to the Gladius is free transports for taking two Battle Companies versus combining Doctrines, right? I'm a bit rusty on my Space Marine rules.
EDIT: Never mind, I just realized only Demi-Companies get Objective Secured and not the whole Gladius, whereas the Victrix gives everything Objective Secured. Neat!
Crazyterran wrote: Let's see what Formations are in the book before I get super excited about the Victrix, and more specifically, what the Victrix is made up of.
(AKA Skyhammer please)
I'm curious what the CORE will be, the standard demi battle company's special rules would be pretty much redundant in said task force. so will Ultramarines just have to deal with it? are they getting a NEW "UM specific" demi battle company? or access to one of the new ones in AoD? or will it be an entirely new way of doing the core right from the bare bones? so many possiabilities, it excites me!
The basic battle demi-co is only partly redundant.
It gives ObSec to everything, so pods/rhinos/dreads.
It gives you another tac doctrine, which the Victrix will let you stack with others.
You might be better off with one the other cores, that trades the ObSec for fancy rules, but there is some synergy here. But I’d not be surprised if we didn’t see many core options.
Crazyterran wrote: Let's see what Formations are in the book before I get super excited about the Victrix, and more specifically, what the Victrix is made up of.
(AKA Skyhammer please)
I'm curious what the CORE will be, the standard demi battle company's special rules would be pretty much redundant in said task force. so will Ultramarines just have to deal with it? are they getting a NEW "UM specific" demi battle company? or access to one of the new ones in AoD? or will it be an entirely new way of doing the core right from the bare bones? so many possiabilities, it excites me!
The basic battle demi-co is only partly redundant.
It gives ObSec to everything, so pods/rhinos/dreads.
It gives you another tac doctrine, which the Victrix will let you stack with others.
You might be better off with one the other cores, that trades the ObSec for fancy rules, but there is some synergy here. But I’d not be surprised if we didn’t see many core options.
I suppose it depends what the Victrix is supposed to be, if it's supposed to be say, Gulliman's personal body guard/task force it might use a core of honor guard and first company members. I do notice that there was a pack selling strike force ultra with gulliman. could THAT be the core?
BrianDavion wrote: I suppose it depends what the Victrix is supposed to be, if it's supposed to be say, Gulliman's personal body guard/task force it might use a core of honor guard and first company members. I do notice that there was a pack selling strike force ultra with gulliman. could THAT be the core?
My guess is that it will have two core options.
One will be the basic battle demi co. Do all the SM big formations include it? I think they do, but would need to double check.
What the second one will be is up in the air. Could be something new, but I could see them putting Strike Force Ultra there.
Kellevil wrote: It would be nice if the Victrix let you use auxillary detachments from codex:SM and AoD
It will almost definitely allow some of them. Especially stuff from the Codex. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some allowed from Angels of Death (ObSec Skyhammer Annihilation Force anyone?).
I am a little bit miffed that they will probably be able to field ObSec Sternguard better than I can with my Crimson Fists, but since when do the Crimson Fists ever get anything nice anyway?
Honestly, I am considering running my Crimson Fists using Ultramarines Tactics at this point. Which sucks because it would turn Pedro Kantor into a generic Captain/Chapter Master.
Quickjager wrote: Glad they're continuing the tradition of having GK be overcosted pieces of crap. Don't want people whining about 5th ed. again do we?
I wish I'd played during 5th to see the glory days. :(
Do we have any more word on the GK formation? Last I saw it was 1 Librarian, 2 Paladins, 2 Terminators and you get +1 to DTW and Stern's version of Banishment. I'm hoping there's more to it than that.
Just give me the Fallen rules/formation already, I need to know what the source book they're using is or if it's self-contained and separate from other books.
BroodSpawn wrote: Just give me the Fallen rules/formation already, I need to know what the source book they're using is or if it's self-contained and separate from other books.
There's a unit entry for Fallen in the table of contents. I think it's safe to say that it is self-contained.
Quickjager wrote: Glad they're continuing the tradition of having GK be overcosted pieces of crap. Don't want people whining about 5th ed. again do we?
Oh shush.
You young pups don't remember the glory of 3.5 CSM.
Alas, how we must suffer for the Sins of Haines for 4 editions.
someone already posted pics over the weekend. But the formation with Cypher and 1-3 units fallen gives them infiltrate and the fallen units in this formation w/in 12" Cypher get ATSKNFear and stubborn
VeteranNoob wrote: someone already posted pics over the weekend. But the formation with Cypher and 1-3 units fallen gives them infiltrate and the fallen units in this formation w/in 12" Cypher get ATSKNFear and stubborn
VeteranNoob wrote: someone already posted pics over the weekend. But the formation with Cypher and 1-3 units fallen gives them infiltrate and the fallen units in this formation w/in 12" Cypher get ATSKNFear and stubborn
So.....basically...
A slightly improved version of the Dataslate formation.
The real question is...are the Fallen using CSM Chosen as their base or DA Company Veterans?
Chosen = No Grav, Storm Bolters, Combat or Storm Shields.
Company Veterans = No 4 x Plasma/Melta Squads
VeteranNoob wrote: someone already posted pics over the weekend. But the formation with Cypher and 1-3 units fallen gives them infiltrate and the fallen units in this formation w/in 12" Cypher get ATSKNFear and stubborn
So.....basically...
A slightly improved version of the Dataslate formation.
The real question is...are the Fallen using CSM Chosen as their base or DA Company Veterans?
Chosen = No Grav, Storm Bolters, Combat or Storm Shields.
Company Veterans = No 4 x Plasma/Melta Squads
I'm kind of annoyed BOLS didn't talk about Cypher's rules, but they did mention that they were new rules, so I guess they're legitimately different from the existing dataslate.
One thing I was thinking about was that Roboute in CC would obliterate an Imperial Knight before it gets to swing. S10 AP1 with Armourbane I6 with 6 attacks and a SD attack on a 6 roll....
TedNugent wrote: I'm kind of annoyed BOLS didn't talk about Cypher's rules, but they did mention that they were new rules, so I guess they're legitimately different from the existing dataslate.
One thing I was thinking about was that Roboute in CC would obliterate an Imperial Knight before it gets to swing. S10 AP1 with Armourbane I6 with 6 attacks and a SD attack on a 6 roll....
To be fair, Rowboat costs about the same as a Knight. Errants are 325 and Paladins are 375. Most Knights have better shooting and access to stomp too plus moving 12". So he seems about fairly costed to them.
TedNugent wrote: I'm kind of annoyed BOLS didn't talk about Cypher's rules, but they did mention that they were new rules, so I guess they're legitimately different from the existing dataslate.
One thing I was thinking about was that Roboute in CC would obliterate an Imperial Knight before it gets to swing. S10 AP1 with Armourbane I6 with 6 attacks and a SD attack on a 6 roll....
BOLS if it has anything juicy will chop it up and stretch it over multiple posts, they run their blog as a business more posts = more clicks = more ads
Q: What role are the Grey Knights playing in GS3? Seems like they just show up out of no where(I know they predict daemon invasions, and there’s one on Macragge) but is that their only reason? Or is there something with the Terminus Decree? Also, did you get any looks at the upcoming rules for any of the new fluff (Gathering Storm 3 and whatever the next part is called)?
Have you seen any mention of Dark Eldar(Commorites, not Ynnari) and Tau?
A: No joy on the rules front mate, purely the background stuff. I can enquire but dont expect too much back!
Its insinuated the grey knights have prior knowledge and that they may not be as pure as they should be. There is heavy mention of the heroic actions of one particular paladin skewering a daemon, possible new character?
The Tau stuff I paid particular attention to (guess my faction) and I was really happy to see a Kroot mercenary leader being front and centre, leading a cadre of disillusioned Tau. This is big, the first mention of Tau themselves straying front the greater good!!! Despite being psychically null, they find themselves able to communicate with the Chaos forces and play all sides against each other. There is a shadowy figure involved that I think is a corrupt ethereal
eldar robot tau aeldari
Q: Oooohhhh do elaborate, do the tau finally take their place as the rightful rulers of grim dark?
A: Not quite, but there is a significant chunk of it dedicated to Tau expansionism, hoovering up in the wake of the Imperium losing its grip. The Kroot and the Vespid both get a mention (the Kroot quite significantly) which is nice!
Q: This is pee my pants exciting, it’s about time the kroot got some love. I’d forgotten that the Vespid existed! I need more information!
A: In essence there is a Kroot mercenary outfit, including some disillusioned Tau, who play off all sides. I’m guessing there will be a new release at some point? Or GW have a surplus of plastic Kroot
TedNugent wrote: I'm kind of annoyed BOLS didn't talk about Cypher's rules, but they did mention that they were new rules, so I guess they're legitimately different from the existing dataslate.
What do you think next week's clickbait is going to consist of? Gotta get that precious ad revenue somehow...
TedNugent wrote: I'm kind of annoyed BOLS didn't talk about Cypher's rules, but they did mention that they were new rules, so I guess they're legitimately different from the existing dataslate.
What do you think next week's clickbait is going to consist of? Gotta get that precious ad revenue somehow...
Joke would be on them then, because the book comes out on Saturday.
Crazyterran wrote: Let's see what Formations are in the book before I get super excited about the Victrix, and more specifically, what the Victrix is made up of.
(AKA Skyhammer please)
Please no. Skyhammer, Grav, and Eldar all need hits with the nerf bat.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Any Old players remember what 'Daemonic Adversary' used to do? I hear it is a throwback to older editions.
It didn't really "do" anything. It was largely a narrative thing, showcasing reasons why a faction might be targeted by Daemonhunters(Tau wouldn't summon Daemons, but they might be unknowingly destroying a hexagrammic ward keeping a Greater Daemon of Chaos in check for example).
It had a gameplay mechanic where you could give a non-Chaos army generic Daemon Packs that could be summoned in. You had to choose an Elite or HQ unit before the game started and then you would roll until stuff showed up and the "vessel" exploded into goo.
No Custodes rules in the book despite two of them being named in the dramatis personae section? I thought there would be at least a reprint of the WD/website rules. Are GW really leaving them as esentially a 30k only faction, or are they holding them back for next edition?
GoatboyBeta wrote: No Custodes rules in the book despite two of them being named in the dramatis personae section? I thought there would be at least a reprint of the WD/website rules. Are GW really leaving them as esentially a 30k only faction, or are they holding them back for next edition?
The Black Templar character didnt get rules either, nor did the rest of the Chapter (other than being able to be taken in Castellans Force Org) despite them featuring heavily thus far so I dont know why you're surprised that things featured aren't getting rules.
Crazyterran wrote: Let's see what Formations are in the book before I get super excited about the Victrix, and more specifically, what the Victrix is made up of.
(AKA Skyhammer please)
Please no. Skyhammer, Grav, and Eldar all need hits with the nerf bat.
As do Riptides, Stormsurges, FMCs and anything else that necessitated High ROF and ap2.
The fact that this game is getting bigger and bigger monsters means that guns to kill them were only a matter of time. See Grav.
LightKing wrote: If i order the book right now and it says it comes out March 11
I wont get it until March 17th, because GW only delivers on Friday?
is this correct?
its my first time ordering from the GW website?
From my past experiences when pre-ordering from the website, unless you are having it delivered to a GW store, they apparently don't actually mail the item out until the day it is available. Which I guess would be the following Monday, the 13th.
LightKing wrote: If i order the book right now and it says it comes out March 11
I wont get it until March 17th, because GW only delivers on Friday?
is this correct?
its my first time ordering from the GW website?
From my past experiences when pre-ordering from the website, unless you are having it delivered to a GW store, they apparently don't actually mail the item out until the day it is available. Which I guess would be the following Monday, the 13th.
LightKing wrote: If i order the book right now and it says it comes out March 11
I wont get it until March 17th, because GW only delivers on Friday?
is this correct?
its my first time ordering from the GW website?
Any time I pre-order something, I tend to receive the item on the Thursday following release. E.G. I pre-ordered Shadows over Hammerhal on 2/18, I received it on 3/2. It may depend on where you live in the country (Texas here).
Someone showed me the gs3 dramatis personae. It doesn't show Abbaddon. So that guys rumors are all bs. Aw for a second there I was excited to see a ig soldier shoot Abbaddon and the Tau stuff.
GoatboyBeta wrote: No Custodes rules in the book despite two of them being named in the dramatis personae section? I thought there would be at least a reprint of the WD/website rules. Are GW really leaving them as esentially a 30k only faction, or are they holding them back for next edition?
The Black Templar character didnt get rules either, nor did the rest of the Chapter (other than being able to be taken in Castellans Force Org) despite them featuring heavily thus far so I dont know why you're surprised that things featured aren't getting rules.
Outside of the two triumvirate sets, nearly all the named characters in the series dramatis personae so far either already have specific rules or can easily be represented using unit entries from there respective codex's(with the possible exception of Vect). Any new SC or units, like the Black guardians have had there rules in the books. So I'm a bit surprised that the Custodes would seem to feature so prominently without any rules outside of a pdf on the GW website and a WD from several months ago.
Really I just what to have some idea of what, if anything GW prime are going to do with the Custodes and SoS
Edit- For home delivered pre orders I usually get them the Tuesday or Wednesday after the release date.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Witch Hunter adversaries were way cooler.
True. I used the rules for my Genestealer Cult. Well, the actual Witch Hunter rules too. And the latter also for Adeptus Mechanicus (+ Space Marines or IG). The book was a godsend for my niche armies.
Can Roboute be transported in a Drop Pod? That'd be a pretty fun and fluffy tactic (and a good way of compensating for his slow speed) dropping a Primarch in the middle of your opponents army.
What is he, a Monstrous Creature? Extremely Bulky?
If that's possible, might just start Ultramarines for that and go with an all Drop Pod army.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Can Roboute be transported in a Drop Pod? That'd be a pretty fun and fluffy tactic (and a good way of compensating for his slow speed) dropping a Primarch in the middle of your opponents army.
What is he, a Monstrous Creature? Extremely Bulky?
If that's possible, might just start Ultramarines for that and go with an all Drop Pod army.
Only super heavies can transport a Monstrous Creature, counts as 10 models.
And yes he is a Monstrous Creature.
Verviedi wrote: I, personally hope that Farsight kicks Guilliman's ass, and the Imperium gets squatted. Both scenarios are equally likely to occur.
Not really. The former shoving a Crusade down the throat of the Tau Empire is likely, and would utterly annihilate them. Bringing the might of the Imperium to bear on that tiny portion of the universe is basically taking a comically large hammer and smashing an angry ant.
Azreal13 wrote: I, for one, am reeling from the revelation that this image confirms the controversial choice of Toughness 6 for a monstrous creature.
Aren't most MC's T6?
also he is still hard to kill even if you do down him
intreasting despite his stats being said as "6 across the board" his WS looks to be a 9
I find it kind of weird that they bumped him to have WS9 base considering his heresy-era stats had him at WS7 (it increased while in combat but that actually makes sense given his analytical nature). Guilliman wasn't a pushover when it came to combat but he certainly wasn't renowned as a duelist like some of the other Primarchs were.
I guess within the context of 40k though, WS inflation is much more rampant.
Azreal13 wrote: I, for one, am reeling from the revelation that this image confirms the controversial choice of Toughness 6 for a monstrous creature.
Aren't most MC's T6?
also he is still hard to kill even if you do down him
intreasting despite his stats being said as "6 across the board" his WS looks to be a 9
I find it kind of weird that they bumped him to have WS9 base considering his heresy-era stats had him at WS7 (it increased while in combat but that actually makes sense given his analytical nature). Guilliman wasn't a pushover when it came to combat but he certainly wasn't renowned as a duelist like some of the other Primarchs were.
I guess within the context of 40k though, WS inflation is much more rampant.
Azreal13 wrote: I, for one, am reeling from the revelation that this image confirms the controversial choice of Toughness 6 for a monstrous creature.
Aren't most MC's T6?
also he is still hard to kill even if you do down him
intreasting despite his stats being said as "6 across the board" his WS looks to be a 9
I find it kind of weird that they bumped him to have WS9 base considering his heresy-era stats had him at WS7 (it increased while in combat but that actually makes sense given his analytical nature). Guilliman wasn't a pushover when it came to combat but he certainly wasn't renowned as a duelist like some of the other Primarchs were.
I guess within the context of 40k though, WS inflation is much more rampant.
Bionic Reflexes???
I guess he is the Primarch equivalent of the 6 million dollar man.
Robin5t wrote: Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.
And even then it's a pretty uphil battle, Guilliman will tank 78% of the wounds, while being wounded only a 30% of the time. Statistically speaking, Jain Zar has a 4.4% chances of wounding. Meanwhile guilliman will cause wounds 41.5% of the time, as his WS is still high enough to hit on 4+ even with the malus, wounds on 2+ and will ignore her armor save as he has smash and AP2 stock on his meelee attacks.
Robin5t wrote: Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.
And even then it's a pretty uphil battle, Guilliman will tank 78% of the wounds, while being wounded only a 30% of the time. Statistically speaking, Jain Zar has a 4.4% chances of wounding. Meanwhile guilliman will cause wounds 41.5% of the time, as his WS is still high enough to hit on 4+ even with the malus, wounds on 2+ and will ignore her armor save as he has smash and AP2 stock on his meelee attacks.
So on a second thought, it's not safe... AT ALL.
Yeah, no way she's doing it on her own, I was thinking more 'Jain Zar and Friends' or 'Jain Zar and cheap tarpit blob'.
Robin5t wrote: Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.
Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.
How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...
Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?
Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.
Robin5t wrote: Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.
Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.
How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...
Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?
Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.
AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.
Where it says "Concussion", I assume they meant to put "Concussive". Says 'Concussion' on the rules video as well, guess that'll be an expected errata.
AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.
While we are mostly venting about Guilliman's rules, am i the only one extremely annoyed by the lack of grenades?
Attacking at initiative 1 if he charges an enemy in cover is a little too much to swallow on top of his monstrous creature status....
No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.
spartiatis wrote: While we are mostly venting about Guilliman's rules, am i the only one extremely annoyed by the lack of grenades?
Attacking at initiative 1 if he charges an enemy in cover is a little too much to swallow on top of his monstrous creature status....
He has Move Through Cover (from his command traits), didn't that allow you to fight at initiative if you charged into cover.
No, with move through cover you roll 3d6 while moving on difficult terrain and cancel the -2 inches penalty on the charge roll.
Swinging at in. 1 still applies unfortunately
spartiatis wrote: While we are mostly venting about Guilliman's rules, am i the only one extremely annoyed by the lack of grenades?
Attacking at initiative 1 if he charges an enemy in cover is a little too much to swallow on top of his monstrous creature status....
He has Move Through Cover (from his command traits), didn't that allow you to fight at initiative if you charged into cover.
He has Move through Cover from being an MC, but no MTC simply doesn't slow you down when charging through difficult terrain. In the 'Charging through difficult terrain' section of the rulebook it states: 'If at least one model in the charging unit moved through difficult terrain as part of its charge move, all of the unit’s models must attack at Initiative step 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain.'
It's not quite like holstering a rifle though, for this chap... witness...
[An epic close combat begins]
Guilliman: "Hold, foe! I must remove my Smashy Gun Glove and Choppy Flame Sword before I fight you, to maximise my chances of rules-lawyering my way to a win!"
Avatar: "THAT IS FINE BY ME. DO CRACK ON."
[Whilst the team of servitors needed to remove parts of Guilliman's armour and sheath his sword do their slow, careful work, the Avatar stabs him repeatedly in the head]
Guilliman: "Oh you cheater..."
Avatar: "THEY SEE ME ROLLIN'. THEY HATIN'." <sashays flamily away>
cuda1179 wrote: No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.
Where has that ever been stated? If I have a Power Fist and a Bolt pistol, I can elect to attack in CC with the bolt Pistol if I want.
What I am questioning is if the only close combat weapon is the fist, do the rules allow you to attack without it.
Robin5t wrote: Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.
Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.
How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...
Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?
Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.
AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.
Yeah...the problem is that if you read the rules for Guilliman, he's not just attacking with the sword. It's a paired set of the Hand of Dominion and Sword of the Emperor.
Where it says "Concussion", I assume they meant to put "Concussive". Says 'Concussion' on the rules video as well, guess that'll be an expected errata.
More evidence of future proofing, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules for "Concussive" removed or altered to be different to something called "Concussion".
I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.
Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.
Re-read the rules and it is somewhat unclear..
It says the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Does this apply to both the -2 and the initiative penalty?
In my group we played it as i described above but on second thought, we might be wrong..
Robin5t wrote: Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.
Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.
How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...
Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?
Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.
AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.
Yeah...the problem is that if you read the rules for Guilliman, he's not just attacking with the sword. It's a paired set of the Hand of Dominion and Sword of the Emperor.
Where it says "Concussion", I assume they meant to put "Concussive". Says 'Concussion' on the rules video as well, guess that'll be an expected errata.
More evidence of future proofing, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules for "Concussive" removed or altered to be different to something called "Concussion".
I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.
Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.
He is attacking with them combined in the 'The Emperor's Sword and the Hand of Dominion', it proceeds to say 'These weapons are used together, using the profile below', of which that profile has Soul Blaze, which would gather that even his Hand has Soul Blaze
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spartiatis wrote: Re-read the rules and it is somewhat unclear..
It says the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Does this apply to both the -2 and the initiative penalty?
In my group we played it as i described above but on second thought, we might be wrong..
Just quick snippet from my other post, 'Charging through difficult terrain' has this:
'all of the unit’s models must attack at Initiative step 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain'
cuda1179 wrote: No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.
Where has that ever been stated? If I have a Power Fist and a Bolt pistol, I can elect to attack in CC with the bolt Pistol if I want.
What I am questioning is if the only close combat weapon is the fist, do the rules allow you to attack without it.
Gone through the entirety of the BRB, searched for 'Close Combat' and 'Melee' and no where does it ever mention that you HAVE to use your actual melee weapon, one could then just assume to be able to use the CC profile of "Strength: User (so 6) AP: - (which would be 2 due to MC status)".
Also in response to the "fist" I assume you mean the 'Hand of Dominion', which unfortunately is a combined profile with the sword so still has Soul Blaze
I can't believe this is a page long discussion about the avatar of khaine which no one has used in years fighting against Guilliman. One of them will die prior to CC via shooting.
I am just glad that Roboute comes with literally all the rules one would need to use him. The other Triumvirates have had the occasional rule with no definitions.
That is STUPIDLY funny
The Emperors sword, Wielded by his son with literally all the special rules know to man....
Cannot be used on an Avatar of Khaine due to the WEAKEST rule on the Sword...
Interestingly, the Victrix Formation obsec rule states 'non-vehicle units'... maybe a change for 8th? no more obsec drop pods/rhinos/land raiders/wave serpents?
...I think the point here being that, odd as it is, the Avatar will be shot up by the rest of your opponent's army before he becomes a real 'problem' for Guilliman.
I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.
Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.
Rending also affects shots against vehicles, not just wound rules of a 6. So maybe not a sign of future proofing at all.
I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.
Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.
Rending also affects shots against vehicles, not just wound rules of a 6. So maybe not a sign of future proofing at all.
Rending's effect against vehicles could have just been written out though.
Each roll of a 6 allows a further D3 to be rolled, with the result added to the total. Those hits are not resolved at AP2 but instead resolved using the model/weapon's AP value.
Or they could have just thrown Armourbane on it if they were concerned about it being ineffective versus vehicles.
"The champion can be equipped with:
Relief knife, combat fist or power weapon.
Plasma gun, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma.
Fusion pumps
One of the Fallen can exchange their bolter for flamethrower, heavy bolter, fusion rifle, plasma rifle, missile launcher, automatic cannon or laser cannon.
Up to 4 of the Fallen can be equipped with:
Blade knife, combat fist, power gun or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, fusion rifle, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma."
"The champion can be equipped with:
Relief knife, combat fist or power weapon.
Plasma gun, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma.
Fusion pumps
One of the Fallen can exchange their bolter for flamethrower, heavy bolter, fusion rifle, plasma rifle, missile launcher, automatic cannon or laser cannon.
Up to 4 of the Fallen can be equipped with:
Blade knife, combat fist, power gun or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, fusion rifle, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma."
Im guessing "Fusion" is melta and "Fusion Pumps" is fusion bombs (the site says Fusion de Bomba")?
and maybe "Relief Knife" is Lightning Claws (Its listed as Cuchilla relálmpago, and I think relálmpago is lightning)
Rending's effect against vehicles could have just been written out though.
[.
Writing rendings rules into guillimans rules would have been horrible. You would have same rule under two names. Change one(say 8th ed rulebook) and other needs separate change.
It's crap like that that led dark angel smoke launchers, storm shields and cml work differently long time.
Same edfect, same rule. Don't create separate named rules with identical effects
"The champion can be equipped with:
Relief knife, combat fist or power weapon.
Plasma gun, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma.
Fusion pumps
One of the Fallen can exchange their bolter for flamethrower, heavy bolter, fusion rifle, plasma rifle, missile launcher, automatic cannon or laser cannon.
Up to 4 of the Fallen can be equipped with:
Blade knife, combat fist, power gun or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, fusion rifle, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma."
Thx for the info just doing a proper translate for all important info.
100 points for squad can add up to extra 5 fallen for 20 points each. formation grants them Stubborn adn ATSKNF. (they compare them as choosen Chaos marine with VotLW)
champion gear options:
Lighthing claw, power fist and power weapon (sorry no *relief knife*),
Plasma pistol or Combi melta/plasma or flamethrower.
melta bombs.
1 fallen swap weapons are right (just remember fusion = melta weapon)
up to 4 fallen can be equipped with:
Ligthing Claws, power fist, power weapon or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, melta rifle or a combi melta/plasma or flamethrower.
they comment that no clue about wich kind of dedicated vehicles they may have, theorize maybe a rhino and have great doubts they'll be get access to drop pods.
P.S: btw in previous post they comment Cypher rules remain unchanged
P.S.2: found some info on the new formations.
Grey knights one seems 1 lib 2 paladin 2 termis minimum and gain +1 to DtW as long 3+ units on table and if any unit cast banishment all Daemon at 12" or less from any unit of this formation is affected by it.
Ultrasmurfs one Cato sicarius, 1 honor guard, 1 sternguard veterans unit 1 Vanguard Veterans unit. they get +1 ha and hp and Girlyman can perform LoS if he's within 3" of any unit.
Rending's effect against vehicles could have just been written out though.
[.
Writing rendings rules into guillimans rules would have been horrible. You would have same rule under two names. Change one(say 8th ed rulebook) and other needs separate change.
It's crap like that that led dark angel smoke launchers, storm shields and cml work differently long time.
Same edfect, same rule. Don't create separate named rules with identical effects
Reread what I wrote before you come in to start an argument.
I'm simply saying that:
A) I think the inclusion of Rending was futureproofing and that they have already thought of a way for Rending to be different.
B) If they had wanted to include the effect from Rending against vehicles(or its Autowound on 6s), it would have been an absolute joke to do so. The Hand of Dominion is already AP2 for its shooting attacks, all it would have taken was writing out the bit about vehicles.
As it stands? He has been given an effectively useless rule and we don't know the reason why.
Rending's big schtick is that a roll of 6 automatically Wounds at AP2.
The gun is AP2.
tneva82 wrote: Rending is not useless. Vehicles remember. Putting that part of rending rule to his rules instead would have been lol-bad stupid idiotic thing.
And what happens if Rending gets changed to do nothing but force an enemy to subtract 2 from any of their Armor Save rolls?
Oh right. Does nothing to vehicles then...
Yes it's not big boost. Every rule doesn't need d strenght...
That's not the argument being made by me though. You're really going to try to sit there and say that them writing out the portion of the rule applying specifically to vehicles is worse than them slapping "Rending" onto it?
Rending's effect against vehicles could have just been written out though.
[.
Writing rendings rules into guillimans rules would have been horrible. You would have same rule under two names. Change one(say 8th ed rulebook) and other needs separate change.
It's crap like that that led dark angel smoke launchers, storm shields and cml work differently long time.
Same edfect, same rule. Don't create separate named rules with identical effects
Reread what I wrote before you come in to start an argument.
I'm simply saying that:
A) I think the inclusion of Rending was futureproofing and that they have already thought of a way for Rending to be different.
B) If they had wanted to include the effect from Rending against vehicles(or its Autowound on 6s), it would have been an absolute joke to do so. The Hand of Dominion is already AP2 for its shooting attacks, all it would have taken was writing out the bit about vehicles.
As it stands? He has been given an effectively useless rule and we don't know the reason why.
Rending's big schtick is that a roll of 6 automatically Wounds at AP2.
The gun is AP2.
Rending allows auto-wounding on the 6 as well. You probably won't run into T10 but there ya go.
Then it stays at S6 to not making ID anything at Marine toughness.
cuda1179 wrote: No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.
Or you just don't resolve soul blaze, which is the sensible way of doing it.
Soul blaze is just an additional effect, isn't it? I don't see why the AoK would be completely immune to RG's fancy sword.
Isn't there a rule that ignores melta? Can you use melta weapons against a model with that rule, albeit without the damage bonus? What about using attacks that have the Instant Death effect against models with Eternal Warrior? You mean to tell me that I can't resolve an attack from a force weapon at all against them, because of EW?
Too bad they didn't give Fallen Grim Resolve. Cypher combined with people firing at normal BS for overwatch would have been interesting. HH Dark Angels/Fallen are on my to do list for 2018 for painting (just because they look awesome).
So the Fallen are still just Chosen/Veterans and Cypher isn't different? Meh swing and a miss. Feels like this is all simply a way to sell Guilliman models since the other 2 characters aren't good.
I wonder what happened? Gathering Storm 1 had such good characters.. maybe there is a limited amount of creativity juices per quarter?
"The champion can be equipped with:
Relief knife, combat fist or power weapon.
Plasma gun, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma.
Fusion pumps
One of the Fallen can exchange their bolter for flamethrower, heavy bolter, fusion rifle, plasma rifle, missile launcher, automatic cannon or laser cannon.
Up to 4 of the Fallen can be equipped with:
Blade knife, combat fist, power gun or plasma pistol.
Flamethrower, plasma rifle, fusion rifle, combi-flamethrower, combi-fusion or combi-plasma."
I don't see where it says fusion pumps. All I see are bombas de fusion, which are melta bombs
No idea what a Cuchilla relálmpago is. lightning knife I guess.
tneva82 wrote: Rending is not useless. Vehicles remember. Putting that part of rending rule to his rules instead would have been lol-bad stupid idiotic thing.
And what happens if Rending gets changed to do nothing but force an enemy to subtract 2 from any of their Armor Save rolls?
Oh right. Does nothing to vehicles then...
Yes it's not big boost. Every rule doesn't need d strenght...
That's not the argument being made by me though. You're really going to try to sit there and say that them writing out the portion of the rule applying specifically to vehicles is worse than them slapping "Rending" onto it?
You're stuck in a very narrow frame of mind, if rending does -2 to saves in the next edition then that does nothing against 7th edition vehicles, true. 8th ed vehicles might get armour saves though, but people always try to apply future rules and changes to the current set.
It's a logic destined to fail. Yes they could give it +d3 to armour pen on an armour pen roll of 6 (14 words) or rending (1 word).
If they scrap the armor value rules completely and give vehicles a save, damage profile, and a bunch of wounds like they did for monsters in AOS, then -2 rend will be a big deal. But I would expect the stats to be different as in AOS, so the weapon might not do the same thing.
Kirasu wrote: So the Fallen are still just Chosen/Veterans and Cypher isn't different? Meh swing and a miss. Feels like this is all simply a way to sell Guilliman models since the other 2 characters aren't good.
I wonder what happened? Gathering Storm 1 had such good characters.. maybe there is a limited amount of creativity juices per quarter?
Yeah...my grand designs to make a small Fallen army have been scrapped. I might still pick up some Grey Knight Terminators to make an allied force, but that is about it.
Roboute seems like he will be usable for me in one way or another and his points are actually not that bad for what he brings. Too bad he is stuck by himself.
cuda1179 wrote: No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.
Or you just don't resolve soul blaze, which is the sensible way of doing it.
Soul blaze is just an additional effect, isn't it? I don't see why the AoK would be completely immune to RG's fancy sword.
Isn't there a rule that ignores melta? Can you use melta weapons against a model with that rule, albeit without the damage bonus? What about using attacks that have the Instant Death effect against models with Eternal Warrior? You mean to tell me that I can't resolve an attack from a force weapon at all against them, because of EW?
*Facepalm*
You cant just "Decide" what Special rules you want to use on the fly
Melta Weapons (Bar Bombs) Have the Melta Rule, you cant decide for them to not become a Heat Based Wepaon when you decide
Also EW makes you only take 1 wound from ID Attacks...
Robin5t wrote: Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.
Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.
How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...
Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?
Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.
AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.
Yeah...the problem is that if you read the rules for Guilliman, he's not just attacking with the sword. It's a paired set of the Hand of Dominion and Sword of the Emperor.
Where it says "Concussion", I assume they meant to put "Concussive". Says 'Concussion' on the rules video as well, guess that'll be an expected errata.
More evidence of future proofing, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules for "Concussive" removed or altered to be different to something called "Concussion".
I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.
Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.
He is attacking with them combined in the 'The Emperor's Sword and the Hand of Dominion', it proceeds to say 'These weapons are used together, using the profile below', of which that profile has Soul Blaze, which would gather that even his Hand has Soul Blaze
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spartiatis wrote: Re-read the rules and it is somewhat unclear..
It says the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Does this apply to both the -2 and the initiative penalty?
In my group we played it as i described above but on second thought, we might be wrong..
Just quick snippet from my other post, 'Charging through difficult terrain' has this:
'all of the unit’s models must attack at Initiative step 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain'
cuda1179 wrote: No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.
Where has that ever been stated? If I have a Power Fist and a Bolt pistol, I can elect to attack in CC with the bolt Pistol if I want.
What I am questioning is if the only close combat weapon is the fist, do the rules allow you to attack without it.
Gone through the entirety of the BRB, searched for 'Close Combat' and 'Melee' and no where does it ever mention that you HAVE to use your actual melee weapon, one could then just assume to be able to use the CC profile of "Strength: User (so 6) AP: - (which would be 2 due to MC status)".
Also in response to the "fist" I assume you mean the 'Hand of Dominion', which unfortunately is a combined profile with the sword so still has Soul Blaze
If the model does not have a specified CCW, it is treated as having a single CCW. That is not the case here as RG already has a weapon. He cannot choose another. As per BRB p. 41.
On the same page it is mentioned that if he had several weapons, you could choose which weapon you use in close combat. I don't think you can elect to fight unarmed in close combat. Since both of RG's weapons are rolled into one, his close combat attacks have Soul Blaze.
Robin5t wrote: Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.
Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.
How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...
Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?
Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.
AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.
Yeah...the problem is that if you read the rules for Guilliman, he's not just attacking with the sword. It's a paired set of the Hand of Dominion and Sword of the Emperor.
Where it says "Concussion", I assume they meant to put "Concussive". Says 'Concussion' on the rules video as well, guess that'll be an expected errata.
More evidence of future proofing, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules for "Concussive" removed or altered to be different to something called "Concussion".
I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.
Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.
He is attacking with them combined in the 'The Emperor's Sword and the Hand of Dominion', it proceeds to say 'These weapons are used together, using the profile below', of which that profile has Soul Blaze, which would gather that even his Hand has Soul Blaze
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spartiatis wrote: Re-read the rules and it is somewhat unclear..
It says the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Does this apply to both the -2 and the initiative penalty?
In my group we played it as i described above but on second thought, we might be wrong..
Just quick snippet from my other post, 'Charging through difficult terrain' has this:
'all of the unit’s models must attack at Initiative step 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain'
cuda1179 wrote: No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.
Where has that ever been stated? If I have a Power Fist and a Bolt pistol, I can elect to attack in CC with the bolt Pistol if I want.
What I am questioning is if the only close combat weapon is the fist, do the rules allow you to attack without it.
Gone through the entirety of the BRB, searched for 'Close Combat' and 'Melee' and no where does it ever mention that you HAVE to use your actual melee weapon, one could then just assume to be able to use the CC profile of "Strength: User (so 6) AP: - (which would be 2 due to MC status)".
Also in response to the "fist" I assume you mean the 'Hand of Dominion', which unfortunately is a combined profile with the sword so still has Soul Blaze
If the model does not have a specified CCW, it is treated as having a single CCW. That is not the case here as RG already has a weapon. He cannot choose another. As per BRB p. 41.
On the same page it is mentioned that if he had several weapons, you could choose which weapon you use in close combat. I don't think you can elect to fight unarmed in close combat. Since both of RG's weapons are rolled into one, his close combat attacks have Soul Blaze.
Fairly valid points and I know the bit you're talking about, I guess it's just down to whether a model is considered having a 'No specified melee weapon' a.k.a unarmed alongside whatever melee weapons they actually have just as an option, far-fetched I know and pretty much every scenario wouldn't require this ruling it is only in cases like this where there is such a clash. Right now if the Avatar makes it into CC with Roboute, he is indefinitely tarpitted. I've sent the GWFAQ rules-monkeys an email concerning the whole scenario, so will have to see what they make of it.
Robin5t wrote: Jain Zar basically seems like the only remotely safe way to engage him in melee, given all of that counts as one weapon.
Jain Zar will die to the Smash rule. But the Avatar of Khaine is immune to all his attacks in melee.
How's so? If he has immunity to flame weapons note that Guillimann's rules don't specify anywhere he has flaming attacks...
Isn't the AoK immune to Soul Blaze?
Just out curiosity, how goes the ruling regarding D-weapons and the avatar of khaine? Technically it's not a "to-wound" roll, so maybe guilliman has a chance.
AoK's Molten Body states he's 'Unaffected by attacks with the Soul Blaze special rule', Guilliman's sword has Soul Blaze, and the Touch Of The Emperor rule (the thing that gives The D on a six) says 'Any attacks with this weapon' in reference to the sword, AoK is fully immune to the D as well.
Yeah...the problem is that if you read the rules for Guilliman, he's not just attacking with the sword. It's a paired set of the Hand of Dominion and Sword of the Emperor.
Where it says "Concussion", I assume they meant to put "Concussive". Says 'Concussion' on the rules video as well, guess that'll be an expected errata.
More evidence of future proofing, in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules for "Concussive" removed or altered to be different to something called "Concussion".
I mean, the Hand of Dominion is S6 AP2 Assault 3...and Rending.
Rending just makes it so any To Wound roll of a 6 wounds automatically for the Hand of Dominion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rending get a bit more "oomph" with whatever new rules set they come out with. Rend values in AoS seem to be well received and I could see a modifier to save rolls being in the cards.
He is attacking with them combined in the 'The Emperor's Sword and the Hand of Dominion', it proceeds to say 'These weapons are used together, using the profile below', of which that profile has Soul Blaze, which would gather that even his Hand has Soul Blaze
Automatically Appended Next Post:
spartiatis wrote: Re-read the rules and it is somewhat unclear..
It says the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Does this apply to both the -2 and the initiative penalty?
In my group we played it as i described above but on second thought, we might be wrong..
Just quick snippet from my other post, 'Charging through difficult terrain' has this:
'all of the unit’s models must attack at Initiative step 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain'
cuda1179 wrote: No, you can not. you must fight with a special close combat weapon if you have one. I guess the Avatar is immune to RG. Interesting. I Guess RG will just have to shoot him to death or rely on smash.
Where has that ever been stated? If I have a Power Fist and a Bolt pistol, I can elect to attack in CC with the bolt Pistol if I want.
What I am questioning is if the only close combat weapon is the fist, do the rules allow you to attack without it.
Gone through the entirety of the BRB, searched for 'Close Combat' and 'Melee' and no where does it ever mention that you HAVE to use your actual melee weapon, one could then just assume to be able to use the CC profile of "Strength: User (so 6) AP: - (which would be 2 due to MC status)".
Also in response to the "fist" I assume you mean the 'Hand of Dominion', which unfortunately is a combined profile with the sword so still has Soul Blaze
If the model does not have a specified CCW, it is treated as having a single CCW. That is not the case here as RG already has a weapon. He cannot choose another. As per BRB p. 41.
On the same page it is mentioned that if he had several weapons, you could choose which weapon you use in close combat. I don't think you can elect to fight unarmed in close combat. Since both of RG's weapons are rolled into one, his close combat attacks have Soul Blaze.
Fairly valid points and I know the bit you're talking about, I guess it's just down to whether a model is considered having a 'No specified melee weapon' a.k.a unarmed alongside whatever melee weapons they actually have just as an option, far-fetched I know and pretty much every scenario wouldn't require this ruling it is only in cases like this where there is such a clash. Right now if the Avatar makes it into CC with Roboute, he is indefinitely tarpitted. I've sent the GWFAQ rules-monkeys an email concerning the whole scenario, so will have to see what they make of it.
Exactly. If you were allowed to fight unarmed, thre would be no point in getting a free melee weapon if unarmed.
Just read the Rulebook on CCWs Quote:
"If a model is not Specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee Type, it is treated as being armed with a single Close Combat Weapon"
As Gulliman has a Melee weapon, he does not get the free CCW So if he is A. Disarmed or B. Unable to attack with his Sword (due to AoK) He would, from a RAW perspective, be unable to attack as he has no Melee weapon to attack with
HOWEVER
I SWEAR there is a thing called "Teeth and Claws" in the 7th ed rulebook which counts as a CCW
I listened to the BoLS (are they still the official podcast?) FTN podcast last night and they talked about Cypher's story and said something along the lines of: something big happens with him and they won't spoil it.
So, does anybody have any intel on what the spoiler with Cypher is?
Am I the only one who thinks that Rowboat Girlyman is helplessly undercosted for what he brings to the table?
yes hes slow. but he is an unstoppable powerhouse that only dies to massive fire. and by that I mean stronger than your regular boltgun. (at least S5 or better S6).
evancich wrote: I listened to the BoLS (are they still the official podcast?) FTN podcast last night and they talked about Cypher's story and said something along the lines of: something big happens with him and they won't spoil it.
So, does anybody have any intel on what the spoiler with Cypher is?
He finds out what was in Vince Macmahon's lockbox.
commander dante wrote: Just read the Rulebook on CCWs Quote:
"If a model is not Specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee Type, it is treated as being armed with a single Close Combat Weapon"
As Gulliman has a Melee weapon, he does not get the free CCW So if he is A. Disarmed or B. Unable to attack with his Sword (due to AoK) He would, from a RAW perspective, be unable to attack as he has no Melee weapon to attack with
HOWEVER
I SWEAR there is a thing called "Teeth and Claws" in the 7th ed rulebook which counts as a CCW
And now I have the image in my head of Guilliman taking off his power fists to scratch at the Avatar with his nails.
evancich wrote: I listened to the BoLS (are they still the official podcast?) FTN podcast last night and they talked about Cypher's story and said something along the lines of: something big happens with him and they won't spoil it.
So, does anybody have any intel on what the spoiler with Cypher is?
He finds out what was in Vince Macmahon's lockbox.
I think you meant...
Cypher threw Abaddon off a pylon on Cadia, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.
angelofvengeance wrote: How does 40K Guilliman compare to the Primarchs (currently available, that is) in 30K just out of interest?
he's actually proably better then his 30k equivilant, however both have some "buffs to their guys" that are hard to compare 1 for 1
It would be close, a lucky str D roll could quickly swing the combat And the whole getting back up on a 4+ thing. 3+ vs 4+ with reroll first fail per round.
If I had to choose I would go with 30k for the army buffs.
commander dante wrote: Just read the Rulebook on CCWs Quote:
"If a model is not Specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee Type, it is treated as being armed with a single Close Combat Weapon"
As Gulliman has a Melee weapon, he does not get the free CCW So if he is A. Disarmed or B. Unable to attack with his Sword (due to AoK) He would, from a RAW perspective, be unable to attack as he has no Melee weapon to attack with
HOWEVER
I SWEAR there is a thing called "Teeth and Claws" in the 7th ed rulebook which counts as a CCW
I think this might be one of the ONLY instances where RG could benefit from the "Our Weapons are Useless" rule and voluntarily fall back out of close combat. LOL at the thought of RG running away from an Avatar.
angelofvengeance wrote: How does 40K Guilliman compare to the Primarchs (currently available, that is) in 30K just out of interest?
he's actually proably better then his 30k equivilant, however both have some "buffs to their guys" that are hard to compare 1 for 1
It would be close, a lucky str D roll could quickly swing the combat And the whole getting back up on a 4+ thing. 3+ vs 4+ with reroll first fail per round.
If I had to choose I would go with 30k for the army buffs.
30k and 40kRG are very different animals. On one hand 40kRG is 50 points cheaper, and you could reasonably fit him into a 2000 point game. On the other hand, you could actually fit the 30k RG into a transport. 30k has It Will Not Die, but 40k has Feel no Pain and a Necron-like reanimation.
If you are transport heavy and like playing "what's in the tank" I'd say 30k has the edge. $0k is likely better if you like massed infantry and footslogging.
commander dante wrote: Just read the Rulebook on CCWs Quote:
"If a model is not Specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee Type, it is treated as being armed with a single Close Combat Weapon"
As Gulliman has a Melee weapon, he does not get the free CCW So if he is A. Disarmed or B. Unable to attack with his Sword (due to AoK) He would, from a RAW perspective, be unable to attack as he has no Melee weapon to attack with
HOWEVER
I SWEAR there is a thing called "Teeth and Claws" in the 7th ed rulebook which counts as a CCW
.
Doesn't the fact that he is a monstrous creature kick in in this case? I don't have my BRB in front of me as I'm at work, but there's a bunch of MC that have no weapons, other than hands.
commander dante wrote: Just read the Rulebook on CCWs Quote:
"If a model is not Specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee Type, it is treated as being armed with a single Close Combat Weapon"
As Gulliman has a Melee weapon, he does not get the free CCW So if he is A. Disarmed or B. Unable to attack with his Sword (due to AoK) He would, from a RAW perspective, be unable to attack as he has no Melee weapon to attack with
HOWEVER
I SWEAR there is a thing called "Teeth and Claws" in the 7th ed rulebook which counts as a CCW
.
Doesn't the fact that he is a monstrous creature kick in in this case? I don't have my BRB in front of me as I'm at work, but there's a bunch of MC that have no weapons, other than hands.
Please don't flame me dude.
Those MCs will automatically be Given a CCW as they have no Starting Melee weapons
commander dante wrote: Just read the Rulebook on CCWs Quote:
"If a model is not Specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee Type, it is treated as being armed with a single Close Combat Weapon"
As Gulliman has a Melee weapon, he does not get the free CCW So if he is A. Disarmed or B. Unable to attack with his Sword (due to AoK) He would, from a RAW perspective, be unable to attack as he has no Melee weapon to attack with
LightKing wrote: so pretty much no one can really fu*k with Roboute in close combat?
Aside from the Avatar of Khaine (who is immune to RG's CQC attacks due to the Sword's Soulblaze special rule) and maaaaaybe D-strength swinging meleers (and most, if not all,of those will swing after RG) getting in lucky 6s on their D rolls... nothing much comes to mind in WH40k.
Jain Zhar might manage as well, due to the quirk of a Swordless RG technically having no CQC weapon to attack with, though she's more tarpit than killer.
Wulfen could also conceivably have a chance, I suppose, but you'd need a lot of them (and they'd almost certainly get heavily damaged in the process).
keep in mind that we're also talking statisticly, there's a CHANCE a IG sergent with a power fist COULD kill Gulliman...but thats like "winning the lottery while being struck by lighting, just as a shark is attacking you" level odds
Woo hoo! Voldus and Guilliman can be used in any IoM army! I have a place for Roboute in my Crimson Fists (or 30K Imperial Fists), Deathwatch, or Skitarii!
While I understand this from game perspective, fluff-wise I have hard time imagining Guilliman leading contingent of Battle Sisters into battle while shouting "for the glory of the God Emperor!!!".
As a long time Ultramarine player, I have no shame in admitting that that image is now my laptop wallpaper.
Unfortunately (for me), due to work, I have to wait a month for the model.
For a long time the three Corvus Blackstar attacking Eldar pic from the DW codex was mine, but I swapped it to the Tevarin Prowler Artwork. I'll probably swap it back to that soon though or perhaps something cool from a future 40k release.
LightKing wrote: so pretty much no one can really fu*k with Roboute in close combat?
Aside from the Avatar of Khaine (who is immune to RG's CQC attacks due to the Sword's Soulblaze special rule) and maaaaaybe D-strength swinging meleers (and most, if not all,of those will swing after RG) getting in lucky 6s on their D rolls... nothing much comes to mind in WH40k.
Jain Zhar might manage as well, due to the quirk of a Swordless RG technically having no CQC weapon to attack with, though she's more tarpit than killer.
Wulfen could also conceivably have a chance, I suppose, but you'd need a lot of them (and they'd almost certainly get heavily damaged in the process).
While I understand this from game perspective, fluff-wise I have hard time imaging Guilliman leading contingent of Battle Sisters into battle while shouting "for the glory of the God Emperor!!!".
Oh for sure. Definitely some cognitive dissonance with several of the armies. Voldus would make an interesting addition to several armies as well. Technically he can be used as an HQ for Black Templars.
I am just happy there is a SM Lord of War actually worthy of the title. Big Blue will proyally replace my Knight for my larger points Crimson Fists setups. He might be slow, but he is going to be a big area of NOPE.
it makes sense too. glad someone linked that, now I can prep my forces approperatly. some things I wish could be differant but over all not too bad at all.
it makes sense too. glad someone linked that, now I can prep my forces approperatly. some things I wish could be differant but over all not too bad at all.
The component units will be ObSec which us nice. I agree, it is fluffy as hell. (I want 1st Company Task Force as a Core Choice for Crimson Fists!)
The fact they didn't include any stuff from Angels of Death is kinda sad since this doesn't really add a lot that the Gladius doesn't already offer.
My german is a little rusty but I'm pretty sure Grand Master Voldus' special rule "Master of the Libarius/Library" above the description for his relic weapon is that in addition to his 3 powers from being psychic mastery level 3, he also always gets a power from Daemonology Santic
Cypher seems to be 100% identical to his Codex version, so he's still a bit meh
As for the rules on the Ultramarine formations I wouldn't be able to try
Special rules:
- Aegis
- TSKNF
- Preferred enemy (demons)
- purity of spirit
- Psyker ML3
- Independent character
BEGABUNG DES KRIEGSHERRN = Talent of the warlord
Voldus gets an additional psy-power from the discipline daemonology (sanctic).
Psyker:
Dämonologie (Erhaben) = daemonology (sanctic); Prophetie = Divination; the others should be clear
Weapon: Melee, daemonbane, concussive, force, special weapon
Victrix Guard Auserwählte des Primarchs = Chosen of the Primarch: Roboute can take look out sir if a unit of that formation is within 3" of him.
Kämpfende Halbgötter = Fighting demi-gods: Add 1 to WS and BS to all models of this formation.
Can´t take dedicated transports.
Detachment
- Obj. sec. for all non-vehicles
- can use each of the doctrines (tac, assault, dev); and those can be taken in any combination within one turn.
- reroll warlord traits
Cypher Gear:
- Frag grenades
- Krak grenades
Special rules:
- TSKNF
- Eternal Warrior
- Infiltrate
- Shroud
- Fleet
- Independent character
- Hit & run
Ok, going back to Roboute and the Avatar of Khaine. Roboute can hurt the AoK in two ways. One, Hammer of Wrath. He hill be hitting him at Str 6, AP-, so he likely won't put a wound on him, but it can still happen. Two, using the Smash attack. It would be a single Str 10, AP 2. The AOK will only get his 5++ for being a daemon, so it will likely put a wound on him once per turn. It will bog Roboute down, but he CAN kill the AoK, but it will probably take most, if not all, of the game.
Pariah-Miniatures wrote: Well I'm sad that new victrix guard has to include sic. Would be nice for those to pair with chapter masters
Would have been nice to have the character slot be a generic captain. Oh well. Good excuse to actually field my counts-as (who mostly warms the shelf.)
BrianDavion wrote: intreastingly the penalty to LDR for a warlord synergizes with gulliman's "never taking a penalty to LDR ever"
Heh, that's some Tzeentch-level Just As Planned right there.
Wait a minute, Voldus is packing Grenades as a Terminator. Do Grey Knights Terminators regularly pack grenades?
yeah GKTs normally pack grenades, it's one of the little things GKTs have that's not useally that important but it great when it comes up because people tend to forget about it
BrianDavion wrote: intreastingly the penalty to LDR for a warlord synergizes with gulliman's "never taking a penalty to LDR ever"
Heh, that's some Tzeentch-level Just As Planned right there.
Wait a minute, Voldus is packing Grenades as a Terminator. Do Grey Knights Terminators regularly pack grenades?
yeah GKTs normally pack grenades, it's one of the little things GKTs have that's not useally that important but it great when it comes up because people tend to forget about it
Interesting. Learned something new. I am looking at probably just using Voldus alongside the units from Codex: Imperial Agents to make a small GK army. I guess I should have looked at that book before I asked on the Grenades.
BrianDavion wrote: intreastingly the penalty to LDR for a warlord synergizes with gulliman's "never taking a penalty to LDR ever"
Heh, that's some Tzeentch-level Just As Planned right there.
Wait a minute, Voldus is packing Grenades as a Terminator. Do Grey Knights Terminators regularly pack grenades?
yeah GKTs normally pack grenades, it's one of the little things GKTs have that's not useally that important but it great when it comes up because people tend to forget about it
Interesting. Learned something new. I am looking at probably just using Voldus alongside the units from Codex: Imperial Agents to make a small GK army. I guess I should have looked at that book before I asked on the Grenades.
I dunno how Imperial agents is in terms of needed units, but the GK nemisis strike force would allow you to plop down voldus, 1 squad of GK terminators, and call it a day
BrianDavion wrote: intreastingly the penalty to LDR for a warlord synergizes with gulliman's "never taking a penalty to LDR ever"
Heh, that's some Tzeentch-level Just As Planned right there.
Wait a minute, Voldus is packing Grenades as a Terminator. Do Grey Knights Terminators regularly pack grenades?
yeah GKTs normally pack grenades, it's one of the little things GKTs have that's not useally that important but it great when it comes up because people tend to forget about it
Interesting. Learned something new. I am looking at probably just using Voldus alongside the units from Codex: Imperial Agents to make a small GK army. I guess I should have looked at that book before I asked on the Grenades.
I dunno how Imperial agents is in terms of needed units, but the GK nemisis strike force would allow you to plop down voldus, 1 squad of GK terminators, and call it a day
I am a strong adherent to the idea of only using material from books I own, so no NSF for me. I was taking just using a CAD or Allied detachment with Voldus, some Terminators (which are in IA), and a Dreadknight (also in IA).
I am not looking to get a bunch of GK stuff, since I really don't need a new army. I just want to add some stuff to go with Voldus.
Though maybe I will get the softcover GK codex, if it exists. But probably not as 8th is on the horizon.
BrianDavion wrote: intreastingly the penalty to LDR for a warlord synergizes with gulliman's "never taking a penalty to LDR ever"
Heh, that's some Tzeentch-level Just As Planned right there.
Wait a minute, Voldus is packing Grenades as a Terminator. Do Grey Knights Terminators regularly pack grenades?
yeah GKTs normally pack grenades, it's one of the little things GKTs have that's not useally that important but it great when it comes up because people tend to forget about it
Interesting. Learned something new. I am looking at probably just using Voldus alongside the units from Codex: Imperial Agents to make a small GK army. I guess I should have looked at that book before I asked on the Grenades.
I dunno how Imperial agents is in terms of needed units, but the GK nemisis strike force would allow you to plop down voldus, 1 squad of GK terminators, and call it a day
I am a strong adherent to the idea of only using material from books I own, so no NSF for me. I was taking just using a CAD or Allied detachment with Voldus, some Terminators (which are in IA), and a Dreadknight (also in IA).
I am not looking to get a bunch of GK stuff, since I really don't need a new army. I just want to add some stuff to go with Voldus.
Though maybe I will get the softcover GK codex, if it exists. But probably not as 8th is on the horizon.
yeah fair eneugh. just I dunno what options IA has, so thought I'd letcha know that unless IA offered better a NSF is proably the best way to deploy a small allied GK force
The IA formation is basically just one squad of Troops or Fast Attack with the option for a HS (read Dreadknight). No HQ, but Voldus could just be attached to the other army since the GK I would run would just be Allies anyway.
Calgar immediately gives up the title of Chapter Master and grants the role to Guilliman in perpetuity.
Calgar is also apparently super-wounded at this stage and is struggling to stand.
Spoiler:
Maybe Calgar is going to go away? Would be unfortunate. I would love for a new Calgar model and honor guard. Or they could kill off Agemman and have Calgar lead the First Company
LightKing wrote: Will Roboute respect Calgar? I am really interested in hoping to find out
I can't imagine why he wouldn't respect him, Gulliman always seemed respectful to his sons. and Calgar has done a pretty good job with the Ultramarines
So, the Victrix Guard pretty much needs a CAD to be run with it so you can transport them up, eh?
I mean, 3 FA slots for pods for the Sternguard, take a VV squad and put Celestine with it, take Roboute in the CAD, and have the Honour Guard escort him up the board?
Crazyterran wrote: So, the Victrix Guard pretty much needs a CAD to be run with it so you can transport them up, eh?
I mean, 3 FA slots for pods for the Sternguard, take a VV squad and put Celestine with it, take Roboute in the CAD, and have the Honour Guard escort him up the board?
Eh. It can be used in fluffy games, I guess.
Except that units in this formation may not begin the game in transports either so no being dropped in pods for them.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Woo hoo! Voldus and Guilliman can be used in any IoM army! I have a place for Roboute in my Crimson Fists (or 30K Imperial Fists), Deathwatch, or Skitarii!
This is the best news I've heard about this release. I'm really glad I can use those models without having to start a new army to run them with. Pity about Cypher, but oh well, I'll find a way to get him in somehow.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Woo hoo! Voldus and Guilliman can be used in any IoM army! I have a place for Roboute in my Crimson Fists (or 30K Imperial Fists), Deathwatch, or Skitarii!
This is the best news I've heard about this release. I'm really glad I can use those models without having to start a new army to run them with. Pity about Cypher, but oh well, I'll find a way to get him in somehow.
It does irritate me that something similar was not done for Khârn, Ahriman, and Magnus the Red. Yes, you can use them in a basic Chaos Space Marines army, but you miss out on the Legion bonuses, unlike Space Marines (they still get tout keep their Chapter Tactics and Roboute does not affect them since he doesn't have the Chapter Tactics rule).
Crazyterran wrote: So, the Victrix Guard pretty much needs a CAD to be run with it so you can transport them up, eh?
I mean, 3 FA slots for pods for the Sternguard, take a VV squad and put Celestine with it, take Roboute in the CAD, and have the Honour Guard escort him up the board?
Eh. It can be used in fluffy games, I guess.
Except that units in this formation may not begin the game in transports either so no being dropped in pods for them.
So the Ultramarine formations are hot garbage!
Oh well, at least the relics and warlord traits arent bad.
Crazyterran wrote: So, the Victrix Guard pretty much needs a CAD to be run with it so you can transport them up, eh?
I mean, 3 FA slots for pods for the Sternguard, take a VV squad and put Celestine with it, take Roboute in the CAD, and have the Honour Guard escort him up the board?
Eh. It can be used in fluffy games, I guess.
Except that units in this formation may not begin the game in transports either so no being dropped in pods for them.
So the Ultramarine formations are hot garbage!
Oh well, at least the relics and warlord traits arent bad.
Crazyterran wrote: So, the Victrix Guard pretty much needs a CAD to be run with it so you can transport them up, eh?
I mean, 3 FA slots for pods for the Sternguard, take a VV squad and put Celestine with it, take Roboute in the CAD, and have the Honour Guard escort him up the board?
Eh. It can be used in fluffy games, I guess.
Except that units in this formation may not begin the game in transports either so no being dropped in pods for them.
So the Ultramarine formations are hot garbage!
Oh well, at least the relics and warlord traits arent bad.
It is possible to be play without formations.
Well, no Gak?
It just would be nice for something other than the Gladius to be worth taking.
Id like it to be a viable alternative. Not necessarily better, but something that isnt hot garbage.
I mean, strike force ultra as a Core? Great, the formation is like 1500 points before upgrades.
No AoD formations, no single choices, pretty much the only differences between a Victrix and a Gladius is that you can take Guilliman and mix Doctrines, at the exchange of losing half your doctrines youd have from a Gladius.
Ill probably try it once or twice, but its quite underwhelming - its no Medusa strike force or Gladius.
Like i said, though, at least we got WLT and Relics. The EW/IWND relic has promise. It + a Storm shield costs the same as a shield eternal. The Warlord traits arent bad.
Im happy with the release overall, just bemoaning something that could have been at least decent.
Edit: though im seeing possibilities with the obsec across the board...
Crazyterran wrote: So, the Victrix Guard pretty much needs a CAD to be run with it so you can transport them up, eh?
I mean, 3 FA slots for pods for the Sternguard, take a VV squad and put Celestine with it, take Roboute in the CAD, and have the Honour Guard escort him up the board?
Eh. It can be used in fluffy games, I guess.
Except that units in this formation may not begin the game in transports either so no being dropped in pods for them.
So the Ultramarine formations are hot garbage!
Oh well, at least the relics and warlord traits arent bad.
ok honest question.... why would you ever WANT to give that formation transports? the virtix guard is clearly intended to be paired with gulliman to provide him an escort (to address the obvious "slowish MC who can be focus fired" problem many have pointed out) so since gulliman can't use a transport, not much point in giving these guys a transport.
Crazyterran wrote: The Honor Guard would be enough to go with him, especially if you got Cato there to catch bullets too.
The other four units though? Should be able to advsnce quickly and coear the way for the Primarch.
true but it can be worked around, you can take vanguard or stern guard vets vanguard vets can be deep striked. which might be a pretty effective way to use em.
I dragged the regimental standard "guiliman propaganda pic" to my desktop, and the files name is emperor1.jpg
Proof that Robert Girlyman is going to replace the Emperor? I hope not.
edit: This one
Spoiler:
Agreed. I really hope not.
Although, if it leads to him blowing up some important gak and causing an AOS-style hard-universe-reset, that would be rather amusing. But that's a bit too self-aware for GW and would require them to admit that a lot of people do not like Rowboat or his Smurfs.
The story spoilers are up in the background area as usual. I can say that it was... anti-climactic. Seriously. There is NO fear of the end times. More like the... mildly interesting times. Weakest of the GS series from a plot perspective. I found the GS 2 and 1 stories far more interesting and with larger ramifications to the lore.
Gamgee wrote: The story spoilers are up in the background area as usual. I can say that it was... anti-climactic. Seriously. There is NO fear of the end times. More like the... mildly interesting times. Weakest of the GS series from a plot perspective. I found the GS 2 and 1 stories far more interesting and with larger ramifications to the lore.
So story ends once they reach Throne-room? Cypher's identity is not revealed in the book? Emperor is still alive?
Well I did not expect GW to spoil all of that in a single book.
Maybe all of the rumors that told us that are for 8'th edition which will come out this year?
Gamgee wrote: The story spoilers are up in the background area as usual. I can say that it was... anti-climactic. Seriously. There is NO fear of the end times. More like the... mildly interesting times. Weakest of the GS series from a plot perspective. I found the GS 2 and 1 stories far more interesting and with larger ramifications to the lore.
So story ends once they reach Throne-room? Cypher's identity is not revealed in the book? Emperor is still alive?
Well I did not expect GW to spoil all of that in a single book.
Maybe all of the rumors that told us that are for 8'th edition which will come out this year?
Well it seems we're getting "super" marines made from robuts blood. Better in every way then regular ones. The ending paragraphs support this but obviously don't state it directly. Just make vague allusions to new weapons and armies of war never seen before as Guiliman sets cawl to task. So the rumor guy is like 95% likely to be right.
Gamgee wrote: The story spoilers are up in the background area as usual. I can say that it was... anti-climactic. Seriously. There is NO fear of the end times. More like the... mildly interesting times. Weakest of the GS series from a plot perspective. I found the GS 2 and 1 stories far more interesting and with larger ramifications to the lore.
So story ends once they reach Throne-room? Cypher's identity is not revealed in the book? Emperor is still alive?
Well I did not expect GW to spoil all of that in a single book.
Maybe all of the rumors that told us that are for 8'th edition which will come out this year?
Well it seems we're getting "super" marines made from robuts blood. Better in every way then regular ones. The ending paragraphs support this but obviously don't state it directly. Just make vague allusions to new weapons and armies of war never seen before as Guiliman sets cawl to task. So the rumor guy is like 95% likely to be right.
Gamgee wrote: The story spoilers are up in the background area as usual. I can say that it was... anti-climactic. Seriously. There is NO fear of the end times. More like the... mildly interesting times. Weakest of the GS series from a plot perspective. I found the GS 2 and 1 stories far more interesting and with larger ramifications to the lore.
So story ends once they reach Throne-room? Cypher's identity is not revealed in the book? Emperor is still alive?
Well I did not expect GW to spoil all of that in a single book.
Maybe all of the rumors that told us that are for 8'th edition which will come out this year?
Well it seems we're getting "super" marines made from robuts blood. Better in every way then regular ones. The ending paragraphs support this but obviously don't state it directly. Just make vague allusions to new weapons and armies of war never seen before as Guiliman sets cawl to task. So the rumor guy is like 95% likely to be right.
Sooo... Fallen kind of suck? 4 special weapons, but no transports, no storm shields, full price melee weapons... any reason to take them over DW, or vanguard/sternguard?
kingbobbito wrote: Sooo... Fallen kind of suck? 4 special weapons, but no transports, no storm shields, full price melee weapons... any reason to take them over DW, or vanguard/sternguard?
You can take Cypher with them, to have Shrouded and Hit & Run?
Plus their formation bonus of Cypher & Fallen is pretty hefty IIRC.
kingbobbito wrote: Sooo... Fallen kind of suck? 4 special weapons, but no transports, no storm shields, full price melee weapons... any reason to take them over DW, or vanguard/sternguard?
kingbobbito wrote: Sooo... Fallen kind of suck? 4 special weapons, but no transports, no storm shields, full price melee weapons... any reason to take them over DW, or vanguard/sternguard?
You can take Cypher with them, to have Shrouded and Hit & Run?
Plus their formation bonus of Cypher & Fallen is pretty hefty IIRC.
I don't remember seeing it anywhere, can Cypher be taken with any army or does he need to take Fallen?
kingbobbito wrote: Sooo... Fallen kind of suck? 4 special weapons, but no transports, no storm shields, full price melee weapons... any reason to take them over DW, or vanguard/sternguard?
kingbobbito wrote: Sooo... Fallen kind of suck? 4 special weapons, but no transports, no storm shields, full price melee weapons... any reason to take them over DW, or vanguard/sternguard?
You can take Cypher with them, to have Shrouded and Hit & Run?
Plus their formation bonus of Cypher & Fallen is pretty hefty IIRC.
Well what's the formation bonus?
Otherwise it seems like an okay way to get Melta spam in many lists.
kingbobbito wrote: Sooo... Fallen kind of suck? 4 special weapons, but no transports, no storm shields, full price melee weapons... any reason to take them over DW, or vanguard/sternguard?
Yeah, I was expecting them to at least keep the Chosen weapon options and unit configuration. Since they didn't change anything else in the formation with Cypher.
I guess. I don't play that often so it seems like a really short time for me.
And of course if I at this moment would start to build a Fallen unit, it would be at least a month before I would have painted them...
2. rules don't become obsolete straight away with a new edition, the army updates drip feed over the life of it
Except most rumours say the new edition will be a clean slate reboot like the 3rd edition. Of course it is still possible that this will not be the case.
Personally I will not buy or build new 40K models until I see what the hell is going on with both fluff an the rules. For all I know Space Marines will be squatted and replaced completely with new Guillimarines...
EDIT: go ninja go ninja go
R
