Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
Gimgamgoo wrote: Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
I sooo hope the answer is NO.
Short answer: NO.
Long answer: Eldar are going to get further divided. We had the traditional 5 factions (corsairs,craftworlds, dark, exodites, and harlequins) and now this new group, the Ynnari, is a shcism that is happening right now in the three main groups. So no, no merging, further division more like.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
I sooo hope the answer is NO.
Well according to the info in WD there are both craftworld and dark Eldar that are not going along with the new Ynnead movement. How substantial in size and how opposed to the Ynnead group they are is still fairly unknown. Its possible that GW may be setting up the Ynnead followers as a distinct fourth Eldar group on the table top. Or it could just be left as a way to combine all three Eldar forces. The Aeldari name seems to be used by the Eldar to refer to the pre fall Eldar and/or the species as a whole. So short answer? We don't know, but personally I doubt it.
Interestingly part 3 may be setting up a similar rift between factions within the Imperium. The Warhammer community preview says that some within the Imperium may not be to happy with the method of Guilliman's return.
Davor wrote: I am curious how you feel about all these Marines that are suppose to fit in a Rhino for the last 20 or so years? .
I would have preferred vehicles (and everyone else) to be appropriately scaled.
That's a completely separate issue to whether or not 16-foot-tall people are a good idea and/or look silly, though.
I only half agree with the first part, if I run the numbers on a consistent scaling the 40K tanks are already gigantic. I'd rather the models look good and be semi unrealistic than be "accurate".
But I definitely agree with the second part. That the Primarchs (or SM themselves) have to be of monstrous proportion to be impressive is really ridiculous to me.
That said, despite the fact that I don't like the model, I AM really curious as to how they're going to handle the fluff around it. Ultramar is about as good as the Imperium gets, and RG was the chief architect. If he sticks around as a military and cultural leader, that could get interesting.
Probably sounds a bit weird, but I have a few knit picks with the Cypher model. First being, I preferred the lion sword being underslung the back pack, not on top. Second, and more of the major gripe for me, they're revealing too much of his face. Part of the great mystery of Cypher was we didn't actually know what he really looked like other than hi jawline inside a hood.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Second, and more of the major gripe for me, they're revealing too much of his face. Part of the great mystery of Cypher was we didn't actually know what he really looked like other than hi jawline inside a hood.
The mystery of Cypher was never what he looked like, just who he was an which side he was on.
It's not like we suddenly recognise him now that we can see his face.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Second, and more of the major gripe for me, they're revealing too much of his face. Part of the great mystery of Cypher was we didn't actually know what he really looked like other than hi jawline inside a hood.
The mystery of Cypher was never what he looked like, just who he was an which side he was on.
It's not like we suddenly recognise him now that we can see his face.
Actually, I'd argue that he was so ambiguous before, you didn't know if there was more than one of him, or not knowing what he actually looked like explained his ability to infiltrate most situations as and when he required.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Second, and more of the major gripe for me, they're revealing too much of his face. Part of the great mystery of Cypher was we didn't actually know what he really looked like other than hi jawline inside a hood.
The mystery of Cypher was never what he looked like, just who he was an which side he was on.
It's not like we suddenly recognise him now that we can see his face.
Actually, I'd argue that he was so ambiguous before, you didn't know if there was more than one of him, or not knowing what he actually looked like explained his ability to infiltrate most situations as and when he required.
It's not like he's any less disguised now, all he had was a hood before. We can just see a bit more of his face in the sculpt now, is all.
Man, I keep going back to these pictures and they just leave me baffled. In one set, you have one of the best Space Marine models I've ever seen (Cypher), one of the blandest models I've ever seen (Voldus) and then there's big blue... Hoooo, boy. I know he's proving to be divisive and some people like him, but in my opinion that is in the top 5 of GW's worst models ever. It's just fugly to the point of being awe-inspiring. Your eyes just can't take it all in.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
I sooo hope the answer is NO.
Short answer: NO.
Long answer: Eldar are going to get further divided. We had the traditional 5 factions (corsairs,craftworlds, dark, exodites, and harlequins) and now this new group, the Ynnari, is a shcism that is happening right now in the three main groups. So no, no merging, further division more like.
real answer: That's only supposition and we simply don,t know
I wouldn't worry. Abaddon is blessed by all four gods. Kharn has been killed many times and resurrected by Khorn. I'm sure he will either be resurrected or reincarnated as a demon lord.
Abaddon isn't leaving the 40k universe any time soon. This isn't whfb where the world explodes and all characters die lol.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
I sooo hope the answer is NO.
I think the anwser is they are all being merged with imperal of man. Hell even the black templar are homies with them.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
I sooo hope the answer is NO.
Short answer: NO.
Long answer: Eldar are going to get further divided. We had the traditional 5 factions (corsairs,craftworlds, dark, exodites, and harlequins) and now this new group, the Ynnari, is a shcism that is happening right now in the three main groups. So no, no merging, further division more like.
wrong answer: That's only supposition and we simply don,t know
There, done for you. Since we DO know the eldar are going to be further separated, with the Haemonculous Covens spearheading the opposition in Commorragh, and at least a whole craftworld (plus groups in others) opposing the Ynnari. Plus quite a few groups of harlequins. This is old news and we've known it for a while that they'd be, for all intents and purposes, a different faction.
@Lightningking. My supposition (and thus take it with salt) will be that he's going to be like Vulkan in the Beast Arises. It will seem he'd be able to solve the problem but ultimately it won't be the case. He'll do a few changes here and there but he won't be around long enough to have a proper and lasting impact. People will make (in and out of universe) a big fuss over him but it will turn to be hot air. Of course, it's just my opinion and guess, so I am likely to be wrong.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
I sooo hope the answer is NO.
I think the anwser is they are all being merged with imperal of man. Hell even the black templar are homies with them.
I think a serious answer was what he was looking for. And really, did they share enough screen time during FoC as us being able to say: they are homies with them, even as a joke? I think they didn't.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
I sooo hope the answer is NO.
Short answer: NO.
Long answer: Eldar are going to get further divided. We had the traditional 5 factions (corsairs,craftworlds, dark, exodites, and harlequins) and now this new group, the Ynnari, is a shcism that is happening right now in the three main groups. So no, no merging, further division more like.
wrong answer: That's only supposition and we simply don,t know
There, done for you. Since we DO know the eldar are going to be further separated, with the Haemonculous Covens spearheading the opposition in Commorragh, and at least a whole craftworld (plus groups in others) opposing the Ynnari. Plus quite a few groups of harlequins. This is old news and we've known it for a while that they'd be, for all intents and purposes, a different faction.
@Lightningking. My supposition (and thus take it with salt) will be that he's going to be like Vulkan in the Beast Arises. It will seem he'd be able to solve the problem but ultimately it won't be the case. He'll do a few changes here and there but he won't be around long enough to have a proper and lasting impact. People will make (in and out of universe) a big fuss over him but it will turn to be hot air. Of course, it's just my opinion and guess, so I am likely to be wrong.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
I sooo hope the answer is NO.
I think the anwser is they are all being merged with imperal of man. Hell even the black templar are homies with them.
I think a serious answer was what he was looking for. And really, did they share enough screen time during FoC as us being able to say: they are homies with them, even as a joke? I think they didn't.
Which proves nothing. Just an alliance of convenience, like in the original black crusade. Only that this time the eldar assistance happens AFTER the battle rather than during.
We like the profiling but black templars aren't necessarily morons, and know perfectly that the bigger enemy is chaos. Doesn't mean they like the panzees.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LightKing wrote: I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had
no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy
IIRC, plenty of the things Guilliman did where him stealing ideas from Malcador. Okay, certainly not as small as Vulkan's but I highly doubt he'll fully change the face of the imperium, or do anything seriously major either. Well, we will see.
Nevelon wrote: Even if Abaddon takes a bolter to the brain, I’d just expect him to respawn in super-ultra boss mode for another round in a later level.
Probably with a new supersized model.
Celestine rammed a holy blade through his spine which hurt him more than anything else in millenia but it didnt kill him - a bolt round to the head is not going to do it.
LightKing wrote: I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had
no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy
I always thought gilliman was a traitor.
He did
started a new empire when he lost contact with terra
Didn't help during the siege of terra screw your home world the betterment of the galaxy all that matters.
After he came when the fighting was over and had a 1000 marines left he threw a tantrum and almost started a second war because he wanted everyone to be the same as him.
Then he refused to back down to the point his brothers said fine you whiny baby have your way.
LightKing wrote: I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had
no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy
I always thought gilliman was a traitor.
He did
started a new empire when he lost contact with terra
Didn't help during the siege of terra screw your home world the betterment of the galaxy all that matters.
After he came when the fighting was over and had a 1000 marines left he threw a tantrum and almost started a second war because he wanted everyone to be the same as him.
Then he refused to back down to the point his brothers said fine you whiny baby have your way.
LightKing wrote: I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had
no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy
I always thought gilliman was a traitor.
He did
started a new empire when he lost contact with terra
Didn't help during the siege of terra screw your home world the betterment of the galaxy all that matters.
After he came when the fighting was over and had a 1000 marines left he threw a tantrum and almost started a second war because he wanted everyone to be the same as him.
Then he refused to back down to the point his brothers said fine you whiny baby have your way.
He literally did nothing but emo threw a crusade.
Only people who did anything was dorn and saguin.
That's not what happened.
And even if that's what happened thank god they let him in power. I highly doubt there would be Imperium by the Age of Apostasy without Guilliman copy-pasting 3/4 of Malcador's plans.
LightKing wrote: I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had
no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy
I always thought gilliman was a traitor.
He did
started a new empire when he lost contact with terra
Didn't help during the siege of terra screw your home world the betterment of the galaxy all that matters.
After he came when the fighting was over and had a 1000 marines left he threw a tantrum and almost started a second war because he wanted everyone to be the same as him.
Then he refused to back down to the point his brothers said fine you whiny baby have your way.
He literally did nothing but emo threw a crusade.
Only people who did anything was dorn and saguin.
Not sure if trolling, but that's not what happened.
LightKing wrote: I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had
no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy
I always thought gilliman was a traitor.
He did
started a new empire when he lost contact with terra
Didn't help during the siege of terra screw your home world the betterment of the galaxy all that matters.
After he came when the fighting was over and had a 1000 marines left he threw a tantrum and almost started a second war because he wanted everyone to be the same as him.
Then he refused to back down to the point his brothers said fine you whiny baby have your way.
He literally did nothing but emo threw a crusade.
Only people who did anything was dorn and saguin.
Not sure if trolling, but that's not what happened.
Ya it is
In the un remembered empire. He tried to make his own empire til sag came in then he said he guess he can be in charge.
After word bearers attacked he never showed up at terra he stayed home unlike the lion.
In the space marine codex "the last one forget the edition" it said guilman imposed the codex astres, many of his brothers disagreed with it. Then with neither side backing down, which almost cost a second war. Until dorn finally agreed then the white scars followed suit.
oh here is the story
Rogal Dorn initially rejected the Codex Astartes and enmity developed between him and Guilliman. Dorn called Guilliman a coward, citing his lack of participation in the defense of the Imperial Palace. Guilliman accused Dorn of being a traitor for refusing the Codex. This enmity quickly involved other Space Marine Legions and a rift developed, Leman Russ of the Space Wolves stood by the Imperial Fists, while Jaghatai Khan of the White Scars and Corax of the Raven Guard supported the Ultramarines. A second civil war appeared likely when the Imperial Fists strike cruiser Terrible Angel was fired upon by the Imperial Navy in connection with Codex crisis.[7]
However, Dorn ultimately relented after spending seven days meditating in the pain glove. There, he concluded that the Legion could no longer serve the Emperor who had been and must serve the Emperor who was, which involved accepting the new order of which the Codex was a part.[8] Secretly however Dorn formulated his own protocol to possibly circumvent the Codex Astartes known as the Last Wall.[14] The Space Wolves Legion, however, never fully accepted the new doctrine. Rather they held sacred the teachings of their Primarch. One of the few ideals the Codex implemented that the Space Wolves Legion actually followed was the succession of Chapters. However, the Space Wolves Legion was never very large. That combined with the genetic instability of the legion gene-seed lead to the Legion only founding one successor Chapter, the ill-fated Wolfbrothers.
Guilman I KNOW BEST OBEY OR YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO MY KINGDOM!!!!
from the unremembered empire
The unthinkable has happened – Terra has fallen to the traitor forces of Warmaster Horus! Nothing else could explain the sudden disappearance of the Astronomican's guiding light at the heart of the Imperium, or so Roboute Guilliman would believe. Ever the pragmatist, he has drawn all his forces to Ultramar and begun construction of the new empire known as Imperium Secundus. Even with many of his primarch brothers at his side, he still faces war from without and intrigue from within – with the best of intentions, were the full truth to be known it would likely damn them all as traitors for all eternity
And why he never showed
After seeing off the Shadow Crusade, Guilliman decided that if his father could not be saved, His ideals would be, setting up a new government called Imperium Secundus, a second Imperium of Man which would reject Horus's alliance with Chaos. Although potentially traitorous, Guilliman's motives at least appeared sincere, he made a big hoohah about not taking the throne himself, since he would look like a Tyrant if he did. Fortunately/Unfortunately, The Lion arrived at Macragge and didn't like where it was heading. Neither brother trusted the other with the job of ruling the next Imperium, so Sanguinius got the job only to settle the matter between the two and was declared regent of the Imperium in the Emperor's absence, which meant feth all because he promptly got murdered by Horus in the battle of Terra.
Last paragraph came from lexium so grain of salt but how did the blood angles make it and dark angles yet gilly wasnt going to try?
455_PWR wrote: I wouldn't worry. Abaddon is blessed by all four gods. Kharn has been killed many times and resurrected by Khorn. I'm sure he will either be resurrected or reincarnated as a demon lord.
Abaddon isn't leaving the 40k universe any time soon. This isn't whfb where the world explodes and all characters die lol.
Lets hope you haven't tempted fate by saying that out loud.
If we get a new Abaddon he will be some giant demon prince type centre piece. If they were going to redo him in plastic as a terminator armour wearing version, they would have used it up front and not used the old metal (finecast now?) version. Which kinda defeats the whole point of his character, being he had the will to lead the forces of Chaos without bowing to the gods desires.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.
That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.
That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.
I'd love to see a side by side of the Forge World and GW versions, and a regular marine.
Also throw in the 54mm version of Artemis from the old inquisitor range.
I never felt the forge world versions were that much bigger, maybe a normal marine comes up to their shoulders. But GW guilliman seems to be at least twice the height.
I know the forge world bases add a lot of height, but that works. It helps them stand out on the table without throwing the proportions into stupid territory.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.
That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.
Whow didn't know pauldrons (don't get me started on the powerfists or legs) should block someone's line of sight, now I'm more relieved that 40k has always had sensible looking armor in both artwork and sculpts!
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.
That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.
Whow didn't know pauldrons (don't get me started on the powerfists or legs) should block someone's line of sight, now I'm more relieved that 40k has always had sensible looking armor in both artwork and sculpts!
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.
That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.
Whow didn't know pauldrons (don't get me started on the powerfists or legs) should block someone's line of sight, now I'm more relieved that 40k has always had sensible looking armor in both artwork and sculpts!
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.
That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.
Whow didn't know pauldrons (don't get me started on the powerfists or legs) should block someone's line of sight, now I'm more relieved that 40k has always had sensible looking armor in both artwork and sculpts!
You realise those aren't actual miniatures?
Plus whats wrong with the second one....
You do realise those pauldrons block the sides, don't you? Just as an example of how out of proportion SM armor usually is, but those shoulderpads impede people from seeing anything beyond a 60-70 degrees angle.
Tamereth wrote: I'd love to see a side by side of the Forge World and GW versions, and a regular marine.
Also throw in the 54mm version of Artemis from the old inquisitor range.
I never felt the forge world versions were that much bigger, maybe a normal marine comes up to their shoulders. But GW guilliman seems to be at least twice the height.
I know the forge world bases add a lot of height, but that works. It helps them stand out on the table without throwing the proportions into stupid territory.
Nah, FW Primarchs are absurdly large too (based on various pictures, I'd say at least five cm tall without a base.) I really don't like them either, as on tabletop they just look like someone put a wrong scale miniature on the table. And they make the normal marines look like hobbits. It is not same with various monsters and dreadnoughts, as those are not just upscaled marines. The new Custodes models are about the size I think would have been good for the primarchs. Obviously larger than normal marines, but not absurdly so. They could use same vehicles, furniture, weapons, etc.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.
That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.
Whow didn't know pauldrons (don't get me started on the powerfists or legs) should block someone's line of sight, now I'm more relieved that 40k has always had sensible looking armor in both artwork and sculpts!
You realise those aren't actual miniatures?
Plus whats wrong with the second one....
You do realise those pauldrons block the sides, don't you? Just as an example of how out of proportion SM armor usually is, but those shoulderpads impede people from seeing anything beyond a 60-70 degrees angle.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.
That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.
Whow didn't know pauldrons (don't get me started on the powerfists or legs) should block someone's line of sight, now I'm more relieved that 40k has always had sensible looking armor in both artwork and sculpts!
You realise those aren't actual miniatures?
Plus whats wrong with the second one....
You do realise those pauldrons block the sides, don't you? Just as an example of how out of proportion SM armor usually is, but those shoulderpads impede people from seeing anything beyond a 60-70 degrees angle.
Your statement rather fits "40k/endless tide of power armor".
So now can you just have a little snigger at the comic or not and not have to prove it inaccurate, regardless if it is or isn't?
I think you've missed my point. I did have a snigger at the comic. I then saw the thier. I cried blood. Then I just said that it adds up more with CSM (something others said already in this thread) Then you needed to pop in and start this pseudo-mess, because you were unhappy people just didn't want to point fingers and laugh (or something like that, really your argument had little purpose). I know this will literally break rule 1 but it's worth telling people to go screw themselves for being wannabe smartipants.
And going back on topic, and regarding a previous comment of mine. I think I'll buy this set, if anything just to give Guilliman a black and gold paint-coat.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Quick question for a semi-given-up-on-40k person...
Skimming through the blurbs I'm seeing for these new products, are GW going to end up merging Eldar and Dark Eldar together under the name Aeldari, much like they did to the Dark Elf and Elf ranges in Fantasy?
I sooo hope the answer is NO.
Short answer: NO.
Long answer: Eldar are going to get further divided. We had the traditional 5 factions (corsairs,craftworlds, dark, exodites, and harlequins) and now this new group, the Ynnari, is a shcism that is happening right now in the three main groups. So no, no merging, further division more like.
wrong answer: That's only supposition and we simply don,t know
There, done for you. Since we DO know the eldar are going to be further separated, with the Haemonculous Covens spearheading the opposition in Commorragh, and at least a whole craftworld (plus groups in others) opposing the Ynnari. Plus quite a few groups of harlequins. This is old news and we've known it for a while that they'd be, for all intents and purposes, a different faction.
I'm assuming that the guy was asking about the fate of the Eldar (or Eldari) come 8th edition, not what happens to them in Gathering storm.
LightKing wrote: I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had
no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy
I always thought gilliman was a traitor.
He did
started a new empire when he lost contact with terra
Didn't help during the siege of terra screw your home world the betterment of the galaxy all that matters.
After he came when the fighting was over and had a 1000 marines left he threw a tantrum and almost started a second war because he wanted everyone to be the same as him.
Then he refused to back down to the point his brothers said fine you whiny baby have your way.
He literally did nothing but emo threw a crusade.
Only people who did anything was dorn and saguin.
Not sure if trolling, but that's not what happened.
Ya it is
In the un remembered empire. He tried to make his own empire til sag came in then he said he guess he can be in charge.
After word bearers attacked he never showed up at terra he stayed home unlike the lion.
In the space marine codex "the last one forget the edition" it said guilman imposed the codex astres, many of his brothers disagreed with it. Then with neither side backing down, which almost cost a second war. Until dorn finally agreed then the white scars followed suit.
oh here is the story
Rogal Dorn initially rejected the Codex Astartes and enmity developed between him and Guilliman. Dorn called Guilliman a coward, citing his lack of participation in the defense of the Imperial Palace. Guilliman accused Dorn of being a traitor for refusing the Codex. This enmity quickly involved other Space Marine Legions and a rift developed, Leman Russ of the Space Wolves stood by the Imperial Fists, while Jaghatai Khan of the White Scars and Corax of the Raven Guard supported the Ultramarines. A second civil war appeared likely when the Imperial Fists strike cruiser Terrible Angel was fired upon by the Imperial Navy in connection with Codex crisis.[7]
However, Dorn ultimately relented after spending seven days meditating in the pain glove. There, he concluded that the Legion could no longer serve the Emperor who had been and must serve the Emperor who was, which involved accepting the new order of which the Codex was a part.[8] Secretly however Dorn formulated his own protocol to possibly circumvent the Codex Astartes known as the Last Wall.[14] The Space Wolves Legion, however, never fully accepted the new doctrine. Rather they held sacred the teachings of their Primarch. One of the few ideals the Codex implemented that the Space Wolves Legion actually followed was the succession of Chapters. However, the Space Wolves Legion was never very large. That combined with the genetic instability of the legion gene-seed lead to the Legion only founding one successor Chapter, the ill-fated Wolfbrothers.
Guilman I KNOW BEST OBEY OR YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO MY KINGDOM!!!!
from the unremembered empire
The unthinkable has happened – Terra has fallen to the traitor forces of Warmaster Horus! Nothing else could explain the sudden disappearance of the Astronomican's guiding light at the heart of the Imperium, or so Roboute Guilliman would believe. Ever the pragmatist, he has drawn all his forces to Ultramar and begun construction of the new empire known as Imperium Secundus. Even with many of his primarch brothers at his side, he still faces war from without and intrigue from within – with the best of intentions, were the full truth to be known it would likely damn them all as traitors for all eternity
And why he never showed
After seeing off the Shadow Crusade, Guilliman decided that if his father could not be saved, His ideals would be, setting up a new government called Imperium Secundus, a second Imperium of Man which would reject Horus's alliance with Chaos. Although potentially traitorous, Guilliman's motives at least appeared sincere, he made a big hoohah about not taking the throne himself, since he would look like a Tyrant if he did. Fortunately/Unfortunately, The Lion arrived at Macragge and didn't like where it was heading. Neither brother trusted the other with the job of ruling the next Imperium, so Sanguinius got the job only to settle the matter between the two and was declared regent of the Imperium in the Emperor's absence, which meant feth all because he promptly got murdered by Horus in the battle of Terra.
Last paragraph came from lexium so grain of salt but how did the blood angles make it and dark angles yet gilly wasnt going to try?
A lot of that is inaccurate if you actually look at it from a neutral point of view.
LightKing wrote: I highly doubt Guilliman will have the same miniscule effect Vulkan had
no disrespect to Vulkan, but Roboute is a administrative genius, he was the whole reason the Imperium survived after the Heresy
I always thought gilliman was a traitor.
He did
started a new empire when he lost contact with terra
Didn't help during the siege of terra screw your home world the betterment of the galaxy all that matters.
After he came when the fighting was over and had a 1000 marines left he threw a tantrum and almost started a second war because he wanted everyone to be the same as him.
Then he refused to back down to the point his brothers said fine you whiny baby have your way.
He literally did nothing but emo threw a crusade.
Only people who did anything was dorn and saguin.
Not sure if trolling, but that's not what happened.
Ya it is
In the un remembered empire. He tried to make his own empire til sag came in then he said he guess he can be in charge.
After word bearers attacked he never showed up at terra he stayed home unlike the lion.
In the space marine codex "the last one forget the edition" it said guilman imposed the codex astres, many of his brothers disagreed with it. Then with neither side backing down, which almost cost a second war. Until dorn finally agreed then the white scars followed suit.
oh here is the story
Rogal Dorn initially rejected the Codex Astartes and enmity developed between him and Guilliman. Dorn called Guilliman a coward, citing his lack of participation in the defense of the Imperial Palace. Guilliman accused Dorn of being a traitor for refusing the Codex. This enmity quickly involved other Space Marine Legions and a rift developed, Leman Russ of the Space Wolves stood by the Imperial Fists, while Jaghatai Khan of the White Scars and Corax of the Raven Guard supported the Ultramarines. A second civil war appeared likely when the Imperial Fists strike cruiser Terrible Angel was fired upon by the Imperial Navy in connection with Codex crisis.[7]
However, Dorn ultimately relented after spending seven days meditating in the pain glove. There, he concluded that the Legion could no longer serve the Emperor who had been and must serve the Emperor who was, which involved accepting the new order of which the Codex was a part.[8] Secretly however Dorn formulated his own protocol to possibly circumvent the Codex Astartes known as the Last Wall.[14] The Space Wolves Legion, however, never fully accepted the new doctrine. Rather they held sacred the teachings of their Primarch. One of the few ideals the Codex implemented that the Space Wolves Legion actually followed was the succession of Chapters. However, the Space Wolves Legion was never very large. That combined with the genetic instability of the legion gene-seed lead to the Legion only founding one successor Chapter, the ill-fated Wolfbrothers.
Guilman I KNOW BEST OBEY OR YOU ARE A TRAITOR TO MY KINGDOM!!!!
from the unremembered empire
The unthinkable has happened – Terra has fallen to the traitor forces of Warmaster Horus! Nothing else could explain the sudden disappearance of the Astronomican's guiding light at the heart of the Imperium, or so Roboute Guilliman would believe. Ever the pragmatist, he has drawn all his forces to Ultramar and begun construction of the new empire known as Imperium Secundus. Even with many of his primarch brothers at his side, he still faces war from without and intrigue from within – with the best of intentions, were the full truth to be known it would likely damn them all as traitors for all eternity
And why he never showed
After seeing off the Shadow Crusade, Guilliman decided that if his father could not be saved, His ideals would be, setting up a new government called Imperium Secundus, a second Imperium of Man which would reject Horus's alliance with Chaos. Although potentially traitorous, Guilliman's motives at least appeared sincere, he made a big hoohah about not taking the throne himself, since he would look like a Tyrant if he did. Fortunately/Unfortunately, The Lion arrived at Macragge and didn't like where it was heading. Neither brother trusted the other with the job of ruling the next Imperium, so Sanguinius got the job only to settle the matter between the two and was declared regent of the Imperium in the Emperor's absence, which meant feth all because he promptly got murdered by Horus in the battle of Terra.
Last paragraph came from lexium so grain of salt but how did the blood angles make it and dark angles yet gilly wasnt going to try?
A lot of that is inaccurate if you actually look at it from a neutral point of view.
The ultramarine fleet was destroyed in the battle of Calth, luckily most of the ultramarine army had not boarded vessels yet. The lion and Sanguinus had travelled with their forces to ultramar, but didn't bring any hitchhikers to earth (no matter how much leg girly man showed his 5 o'clock shadow even turned off the lion ).
I think RG could possibly ride in a transport. He'd take up as much room as an Ogryn though. He's at least very bulky. That means he'd be limited to Landraiders, Thunderhawks, StormRavens, and possibly a Corvus Blackstar.
LightKing wrote: so is Roboute about to be the most powerful single character in tabletop?
Do you think entirely too many of your posts are just random questions only tangentially related to the discussion with zero folllow up to any replies you get except more questions?
looking at the minis again, i think i will need two, and possibly three of this box...
Cypher especially...
i am inspired to paint one like the studio version, a grittier one, and convert one to an Inquisitor...
for Guilliman, a studio version, a Salamanders conversion, and maybe a Space Wolves or Blood Angels conversion...
the GK will make a fine Inquisitor, too, in red armor...
the studio version is a no-brainer, so now i just need to come up with an idea for a third variation...
so many ideas of what can be done with these three minis!!!
good thing March is my birthday month
Actually, of the three minis in this new Triumvirate box, Rowboat Girlyman interests me the least. I'm not a Smurf-hater or anything, but I don't collect Ultramarines, so it would be of limited use to me. I would probably use the helmeted head if I did get the model, as the face on the bare head is just ugly to me (maybe it's just the studio's paintjob, but I don't like it). Now Cypher, on the other hand, interests me a great deal. I do have the current metal model of him, painted and everything. I didn't want to read through 21 pages of posts to try to find any leaked new rules for him, so I don't know if he even gets new rules, but the new model is AWESOME! The Grey Knight is a cool model at least, and as I'm considering getting a few Grey Knight models to run the Daemonhunter Strike Force from Codex: Imperial Agents, I could find a way to use him.
Eldarain wrote: I'm conflicted by my excitement for a new Cypher model and the fact all the mystery around him will probably be revealed now.
From the sounds of it, it isn't revealed. He is helping Rowboat to further his own ends. One thing that is revealed is the his destination is known. But that was always strongly hinted at.
Tamereth wrote: I'd love to see a side by side of the Forge World and GW versions, and a regular marine.
Also throw in the 54mm version of Artemis from the old inquisitor range.
I never felt the forge world versions were that much bigger, maybe a normal marine comes up to their shoulders. But GW guilliman seems to be at least twice the height.
I know the forge world bases add a lot of height, but that works. It helps them stand out on the table without throwing the proportions into stupid territory.
Nah, FW Primarchs are absurdly large too (based on various pictures, I'd say at least five cm tall without a base.) I really don't like them either, as on tabletop they just look like someone put a wrong scale miniature on the table. And they make the normal marines look like hobbits. It is not same with various monsters and dreadnoughts, as those are not just upscaled marines. The new Custodes models are about the size I think would have been good for the primarchs. Obviously larger than normal marines, but not absurdly so. They could use same vehicles, furniture, weapons, etc.
FW Primarchs are the right size relative to human models, it's Space Marine miniatures that are too small. Scale them up to a more appropriate 40mm-ish(38mm-ish if you're a strict "all SM are exactly 7' tall in armour and not one single nanometre taller!" sort) and everything looks roughly appropriate given the fluff. Primarchs aren't supposed to use the same vehicles, furniature, weapons etc, they're genetically and psychically engineered demigods and even the smallest can only barely pass for a freakishly tall Marine(so what, a minimum of 8.5-9' tall?). Russ uses a modified Legionary bolter as a pistol.
Plastic Rowboat, as with everything else in the GW studio these days, takes the concept and ramps it up to the point of unintentional self-parody, but I'm sure they'll have some "his body is basically a dread" or somesuch as an excuse for his embiggening.
This is all but complete confirmation we won't be getting new Sisters any time soon, right?
I'm glad they gave him a helmet, and a very nice one at that. The lack of helmets is one of the things that bothers me the most about FW Primarchs (next to their ludicrous bases).
Frozen Ocean wrote: This is all but complete confirmation we won't be getting new Sisters any time soon, right?
I'm glad they gave him a helmet, and a very nice one at that. The lack of helmets is one of the things that bothers me the most about FW Primarchs (next to their ludicrous bases).
How does this, in any way, confirm we won't be getting new Sisters any time soon?
Posted it in the other thread, while younall argue about whatever, im just sitting here hoping we get Ultramarine formations, warlord traits, and relics.
Tamereth wrote: I'd love to see a side by side of the Forge World and GW versions, and a regular marine.
Also throw in the 54mm version of Artemis from the old inquisitor range.
I never felt the forge world versions were that much bigger, maybe a normal marine comes up to their shoulders. But GW guilliman seems to be at least twice the height.
I know the forge world bases add a lot of height, but that works. It helps them stand out on the table without throwing the proportions into stupid territory.
Nah, FW Primarchs are absurdly large too (based on various pictures, I'd say at least five cm tall without a base.) I really don't like them either, as on tabletop they just look like someone put a wrong scale miniature on the table. And they make the normal marines look like hobbits. It is not same with various monsters and dreadnoughts, as those are not just upscaled marines. The new Custodes models are about the size I think would have been good for the primarchs. Obviously larger than normal marines, but not absurdly so. They could use same vehicles, furniture, weapons, etc.
FW Primarchs are the right size relative to human models, it's Space Marine miniatures that are too small. Scale them up to a more appropriate 40mm-ish(38mm-ish if you're a strict "all SM are exactly 7' tall in armour and not one single nanometre taller!" sort) and everything looks roughly appropriate given the fluff. Primarchs aren't supposed to use the same vehicles, furniature, weapons etc, they're genetically and psychically engineered demigods and even the smallest can only barely pass for a freakishly tall Marine(so what, a minimum of 8.5-9' tall?). Russ uses a modified Legionary bolter as a pistol.
Plastic Rowboat, as with everything else in the GW studio these days, takes the concept and ramps it up to the point of unintentional self-parody, but I'm sure they'll have some "his body is basically a dread" or somesuch as an excuse for his embiggening.
Ya I am thinking gillyman is about 12-14 feet tall. He may be able to wrestle a avatar or wraith knight.
kodos wrote: So we get a TrueScale Primarch who looks strange among 28mm Marines.
I guess Robert will work well with True Scale Marines
Haha it's funny to me that this is what makes him look weird for me too. When people were saying Abaddon was getting a new model. I thought the best option would be to keep him a Termie but just make him true scale so it keeps the idea of making heroes look 'bigger' but without needing to go down the Prince route.
Now seeing Blue Man near true scale next to not true scale marines does look a bit weird.
I know ward retconned/ignored quite a bit of Black Templar lore.
However given how Dorn was blackmailed into breaking up his legion and his distrust of Curly Sue's actual motivations for doing it.
I always thought when he took sigmusund aside to have a word with him to stop the 1st company from kicking the smurfs cowardly asses. He told them to stay fleet bound build up towards legion size and Kurb Stomp the smurfs and curly sue when they make there grab for power and this was the secret/instruction the New high Marshal gets.
is Cypher a good guy, since he is helping out Roboute?
Bit of both at this point. I won't spoil it for you here, so go read Gav Thorpe's (40K) Dark Angels series.
He is probably the guy Roboute need to have a beer with at the end of the day after discussing the Imperium with the religious fanatics Celestine and Voldus.
I can imagine Gulliman trying to argue with the religious lunatics, saying things like:
"-Well, back when I spoke to the Emperor, Personally, he was pretty clear about the "no worship" thing, he actually had me destroy whole civilizations for less."
kodos wrote: So we get a TrueScale Primarch who looks strange among 28mm Marines.
I guess Robert will work well with True Scale Marines
No, that was my point - Primarchs are truescale already. So are humans. It's Space Marines that are the problem. Plastic Rowboat looks to be quite a bit bigger than his FW version, and that looks great next to truescale Marines, the plastic one will look a bit derpy regardless of what scale your SM models are.
EDIT: And as for the fluff issues, Roboute is a craven opportunist *cough* ahem, sorry, "tactical and strategic genius beyond compare and our Spiritual Leige", so I expect they'll have him do that "maths equations float around head" scene thing and conclude he has to go along with the religious crazy at least in the short term.
kodos wrote: So we get a TrueScale Primarch who looks strange among 28mm Marines.
I guess Robert will work well with True Scale Marines
No, that was my point - Primarchs are truescale already. So are humans. It's Space Marines that are the problem. Plastic Rowboat looks to be quite a bit bigger than his FW version, and that looks great next to truescale Marines, the plastic one will look a bit derpy regardless of what scale your SM models are.
EDIT: And as for the fluff issues, Roboute is a craven opportunist *cough* ahem, sorry, "tactical and strategic genius beyond compare and our Spiritual Leige", so I expect they'll have him do that "maths equations float around head" scene thing and conclude he has to go along with the religious crazy at least in the short term.
Nah they won't even go that far. He'll be 100% cool with it as soon as he wakes up because he's secretly known what's happened to the Imperium all along while in stasis.
is Cypher a good guy, since he is helping out Roboute?
Bit of both at this point. I won't spoil it for you here, so go read Gav Thorpe's (40K) Dark Angels series.
He is probably the guy Roboute need to have a beer with at the end of the day after discussing the Imperium with the religious fanatics Celestine and Voldus.
I can imagine Gulliman trying to argue with the religious lunatics, saying things like:
"-Well, back when I spoke to the Emperor, Personally, he was pretty clear about the "no worship" thing, he actually had me destroy whole civilizations for less."
Celestine is portrayed thus far as quite calm and will probably counter with. "That was then - he speaks to me all the time. The Imperium needs it s god to survive. All is as He has planned."
Greyfax - not sure - she might think he is a fake - I am still a little confused as to what era is is from - given that she is also apparently the one who killed (?) Inquisitor Valeria to save her from Trazyn and she was current era, wasn't she?
Nah they won't even go that far. He'll be 100% cool with it as soon as he wakes up because he's secretly known what's happened to the Imperium all along while in stasis.
I'm not sure the worship of the emperor being a thing would actually be news to him, though. He went into stasis when? The Imperial Cult was made official in M32, but it was growing even during the heresy and was known to exist by the Primarchs who survived.
He may disagree with the "religious crazy" at first. But I doubt he would discount its usefulness in controlling the populace. Not to mention if Cawl is on Ultramar then Celestine is probably around too. Might be hard to discount the Emperors divinity when he meets a bona fide living saint. Either way considering his history with the imperial creed and the Word bearers its going to be interesting to see how he reacts.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Not to mention if Cawl is on Ultramar then Celestine is probably around too. Might be hard to discount the Emperors divinity when he meets a bona fide living saint.
Meh, she's just a very strong psyker with an ego problem, if you want to look at it that way. I don't, to me she's a saint of the emprah, I'm just saying it's a matter of perspective.
Took some photos of the twitch stream. Roboute certainly looks better in the 360. I like the backpack a lot. You can also clearly see that the power armour is sitting on top of another suit inside, making the mini bigger but also making the bare head look tiny. The other problem with the version we have seen in the photos is that the head, chest and groin are all pointing in different directions. This makes for a very awkward pose. Simply by turning the head to face the same direction as the chest he looks like he is striding forward rather than doing the splits.
They also talked a fair amount about the set up of the story which I will share here if people wish.
Big guy aside (and apologies if this has been discussed I haven't read the whole thread) I'm really wandering what this means for the Dark Angels. Are the fallen going to be revealed as loyalists confirming rumours about the true events of the heresy. Are the fallen going to be welcomed back into the fold, unlikely. Are the Dark angels going to panic, launch an all out assault on Cypher, and in doing so get on the wrong side of Rowboat and start another civil war. Or are the DA just going to flat out turn rouge??? Any way it goes I see big changes for my favourite chapter and I am a little worried.
GoatboyBeta wrote: He may disagree with the "religious crazy" at first. But I doubt he would discount its usefulness in controlling the populace. Not to mention if Cawl is on Ultramar then Celestine is probably around too. Might be hard to discount the Emperors divinity when he meets a bona fide living saint. Either way considering his history with the imperial creed and the Word bearers its going to be interesting to see how he reacts.
Rowboat: Note to self, the council of Nikaea may not have been so bad after all.
deathstalker013 wrote: Big guy aside (and apologies if this has been discussed I haven't read the whole thread) I'm really wandering what this means for the Dark Angels. Are the fallen going to be revealed as loyalists confirming rumours about the true events of the heresy. Are the fallen going to be welcomed back into the fold, unlikely. Are the Dark angels going to panic, launch an all out assault on Cypher, and in doing so get on the wrong side of Rowboat and start another civil war. Or are the DA just going to flat out turn rouge??? Any way it goes I see big changes for my favourite chapter and I am a little worried.
I think they're going to turn rouge. After all, that would be a much better colour for them, what with the history of how the name and that of their primarch came to be.
The biggest problem I have with Ribit is that I can't imagine what his actual body looks like inside that armour. There is way too much space between the legs, looks like the Contemptor-style legs bolted on to the side of the hips. Would love if someone tried to pencil in his body on top of a photo to help me visualise it.
I don't think the head is badly sculpted though, I'm convinced it's just the over-the-top paint job that makes it look like he's got stage makeup on.
deathstalker013 wrote: Big guy aside (and apologies if this has been discussed I haven't read the whole thread) I'm really wandering what this means for the Dark Angels. Are the fallen going to be revealed as loyalists confirming rumours about the true events of the heresy. Are the fallen going to be welcomed back into the fold, unlikely. Are the Dark angels going to panic, launch an all out assault on Cypher, and in doing so get on the wrong side of Rowboat and start another civil war. Or are the DA just going to flat out turn rouge??? Any way it goes I see big changes for my favourite chapter and I am a little worried.
I think they're going to turn rouge. After all, that would be a much better colour for them, what with the history of how the name and that of their primarch came to be.
Ahh the grammar police are out, I'm typing on a phone (autocorrect) and I'm not that bothered.
GoatboyBeta wrote: He may disagree with the "religious crazy" at first. But I doubt he would discount its usefulness in controlling the populace. Not to mention if Cawl is on Ultramar then Celestine is probably around too. Might be hard to discount the Emperors divinity when he meets a bona fide living saint. Either way considering his history with the imperial creed and the Word bearers its going to be interesting to see how he reacts.
Rowboat: Note to self, the council of Nikaea may not have been so bad after all.
He already went through this during the Heresy after the atrocities of Calth and the wider Shadow Crusade. He realised Librarians are kind of useful if you're facing warp beings.
Honestly while the posing is bad even by GW standards and the proportions are ridiculous as is expected from a GW sculpt.
They are not really the issue, even setting aside the fact it Is Captain beige of the Vanilla marines whom acheived so little during the Heresy due to also turning traitor just not with Horus(Yes I know the real reason for the UM doing sweet fa was due to them having to be retconned into the heresy years after the original story)
Famous for pinching other peoples tactics as he had none of his own and being the greatest quarter master the imperium ever saw(seriously not one unit ran out of loo rolls under his watch).
The issue for me is that the minature seems to have had every technique the sculptor knew how to do just thrown on it and on top of each other. It has no unified style or aesthetic it is layer after layer of extraneous detail it is terrible on every level with so much going on it blurs into a blob of blue and gold.
That ignores GW's usual issues in that they only hire sculpters whom seem to have never looked at a human and cannot sculpt faces.
deathstalker013 wrote: Big guy aside (and apologies if this has been discussed I haven't read the whole thread) I'm really wandering what this means for the Dark Angels. Are the fallen going to be revealed as loyalists confirming rumours about the true events of the heresy. Are the fallen going to be welcomed back into the fold, unlikely. Are the Dark angels going to panic, launch an all out assault on Cypher, and in doing so get on the wrong side of Rowboat and start another civil war. Or are the DA just going to flat out turn rouge??? Any way it goes I see big changes for my favourite chapter and I am a little worried.
I think they're going to turn rouge. After all, that would be a much better colour for them, what with the history of how the name and that of their primarch came to be.
Ahh the grammar police are out, I'm typing on a phone (autocorrect) and I'm not that bothered.
Not meant to insult you, I just found it funny, since DA have often been called gay and all.
The helmeted version makes me happy. The only chump who is allowed to walk to war in my armies is Tigurius, and thats because i didnt feel like drilling out his head.
OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.
Spoiler:
After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.
Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.
there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.
kodos wrote: So we get a TrueScale Primarch who looks strange among 28mm Marines.
I guess Robert will work well with True Scale Marines
my baseless theory for 8th is custodes for imperium, bobmarines for imperium secondus
seeing that Stormcast are already TrueScale Marines, it is not unlikely that the new 8th Edition Marines will be larger (and more Stormcast like) while the rest will be used for Marine VS Marine games in 30k.
a win win situation for GW if those games use different scale
I agree the sculpt is weak, and seeing the back doesn't really help. I also LOATHE scale creep. Age of sigmar here we come. But in the end, if it produces a decent sort of ruleset that makes it possible to pick up a book, make an army, and play a game without spending hours on the internet and half a dozen digital expansions to figure out how to get 2++ rerollable I might forgive them.
deathstalker013 wrote: Big guy aside (and apologies if this has been discussed I haven't read the whole thread) I'm really wandering what this means for the Dark Angels. Are the fallen going to be revealed as loyalists confirming rumours about the true events of the heresy. Are the fallen going to be welcomed back into the fold, unlikely. Are the Dark angels going to panic, launch an all out assault on Cypher, and in doing so get on the wrong side of Rowboat and start another civil war. Or are the DA just going to flat out turn rouge??? Any way it goes I see big changes for my favourite chapter and I am a little worried.
I think they're going to turn rouge. After all, that would be a much better colour for them, what with the history of how the name and that of their primarch came to be.
Ahh the grammar police are out, I'm typing on a phone (autocorrect) and I'm not that bothered.
Not meant to insult you, I just found it funny, since DA have often been called gay and all.
Oh I'm not offended... Just, disappointed. Btw I know the whole Lionel Johnson and the Dark Angel poem, its worth a read and did inspire the chapter. I didn't read it as a poem about homosexuality though (as rumoured) I know Lionel was gay.
Crazyterran wrote: The helmeted version makes me happy. The only chump who is allowed to walk to war in my armies is Tigurius, and thats because i didnt feel like drilling out his head.
What about Scouts?
Agreed on the helmeted head being good. The fact the helmet looks pretty awesome helps too. I appear to be one of the only people that like the RG model. I really hope he will be usable for all SM factions.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: I don't know if this has been seen already, but I thought it was worth posting.
That "thier" killed me. My eyes are still sore as all hell. Still, tbh, Guilliman doesn't really fit the AoS aesthethics, rather he fits more the CSM aesthetics.
Yet so many players seem to think it's a good model. It's just another swing and a miss IMO, as if they think their own game is nothing but something you find in Toys R Us
I wonder what Asmodai will make of Roboute seemingly working with Cypher, after being rejuvenated by heretic xenos witch no less...? Clearly a daemonic and/or xenos plot!
Would be quite a twist if good ole Roboute wakes up strapped to a slab in the Rock, with Asmodai about to get medieval on his a**. :-D
As an aside, you'd think Asmodai and Greyfax might get along splendidly.
Frozen Ocean wrote: This is all but complete confirmation we won't be getting new Sisters any time soon, right?
I'm glad they gave him a helmet, and a very nice one at that. The lack of helmets is one of the things that bothers me the most about FW Primarchs (next to their ludicrous bases).
How does this, in any way, confirm we won't be getting new Sisters any time soon?
Because we're on to Gathering Storm Part III and still not a peep from them, even though Celestine came in with Part I and the Sisters participated in the battle. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic, but it makes me worry they'll just get left in the dust.
Frozen Ocean wrote: This is all but complete confirmation we won't be getting new Sisters any time soon, right?
I'm glad they gave him a helmet, and a very nice one at that. The lack of helmets is one of the things that bothers me the most about FW Primarchs (next to their ludicrous bases).
How does this, in any way, confirm we won't be getting new Sisters any time soon?
Because we're on to Gathering Storm Part III and still not a peep from them, even though Celestine came in with Part I and the Sisters participated in the battle. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic, but it makes me worry they'll just get left in the dust.
Well the Eldar release was just completely overshadowed by news of the next books contents and models.. so be happy that didn't happen to your sisters?
I'm eager for plastic sisters too but they may be saving them for the new edition.
Not a big fan of girlyman anyway and this model doesn't change much for me. Just hoping they get around to doing a Rogal Dorn model in time. Not much to look forward to code the next few weeks now we've seen the primarch revealed a full month early. I'd guess New edition in June so there are still two months of releases log which one will mostly be duardin I think
Frozen Ocean wrote: Because we're on to Gathering Storm Part III and still not a peep from them, even though Celestine came in with Part I and the Sisters participated in the battle. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic, but it makes me worry they'll just get left in the dust.
So far no force has got any new models outside the special characters in the triumvirate sets. So I wouldn't get too worried just yet.
SeanDrake wrote: I know ward retconned/ignored quite a bit of Black Templar lore.
However given how Dorn was blackmailed into breaking up his legion and his distrust of Curly Sue's actual motivations for doing it.
I always thought when he took sigmusund aside to have a word with him to stop the 1st company from kicking the smurfs cowardly asses. He told them to stay fleet bound build up towards legion size and Kurb Stomp the smurfs and curly sue when they make there grab for power and this was the secret/instruction the New high Marshal gets.
haha a man after my own heart dorm should of slapped around gilliman with the wolfs help.
Chikout wrote: OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.
Spoiler:
After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.
Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.
there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.
So, uh... I'm not the only one who caught that, right?
Heresy to the Extreme ahead:
Spoiler:
The Empress of Mankind confirmed. Or at least a Greater Daemon of the Emperor...
Chikout wrote: OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.
Spoiler:
After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.
Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.
there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.
So, uh... I'm not the only one who caught that, right?
Heresy to the Extreme ahead:
Spoiler:
The Empress of Mankind confirmed. Or at least a Greater Daemon of the Emperor...
Looks like ol' Guilly may have come back a bit more confused (in more ways than one ) then we originally thought . In all seriousness, I'm guessing it has to do with her psychic aura that is reminiscent of the Emperor's own crazy golden visage.
Hoping for some real bomb drops with how the Imperium is going to handle a Primarch returning and in turn how he sees the Imperium. Im sorry, the Black Templars have how many marines?! More importantly those Fallen though, I mean, the Grey Knights are right next to them. Aren't the DA gonna their pants?
To me the DA have always seemed to care more for their own preservation than their service to humanity and the Emperor, almost bordering on heresy. They would kill any loyalist to keep their dirty secret safe. I would be pretty pissed if my chapter turned traitor but this is the most secretive chapter out the lot (well....nearly most). Either a shocking revelation about the Lion or the DA going into full panic mode with all those Fallen being around Roboute and doing something very silly would be very grim dark indeed.
Primarch looks like the old plastic demon prince template with some new texturing and ultramarines additions to me. Not too difficult to do in the CAD world.
The DA are in that awkward position where all the things they have done to continue the cover up are probably now worse than the original misdeed. Maybe they will finally come clean and receive absolution from the Imperial authorities? Considering the desperate times and if they have a Primarch and the GK vouching for them, it could happen.
Chikout wrote: OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.
Spoiler:
After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.
Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.
there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.
Why would gillyman show up to help terra, he didn't bother the first time.
Chikout wrote: OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.
Spoiler:
After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.
Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.
there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.
Why would gillyman show up to help terra, he didn't bother the first time.
Chikout wrote: OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.
Spoiler:
After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.
Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.
there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.
Why would gillyman show up to help terra, he didn't bother the first time.
Is there an eye roll emoji?
I wish.... I wish he is the only and I mean only primarch I actually hate. Selfish ignorant self cannonizing. Didn't help save the Galaxy but made the rules when it was saved. God I hate him and his coward swarm legions.
I may be wrong in this but, I thought there was no new gene seeds being made so how did the ultramarine become like 2/3 the overall marines? Everyone else is trying to keep it pure and maintain what they got (which this may be from a older edition but) I remember them saying there is no gene seeds being made so any that is lost is tragic event. that's why the apoth gather them so feverly and if it is lost that's 1 less marine.
Chikout wrote: OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.
Spoiler:
After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.
Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.
there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.
Why would gillyman show up to help terra, he didn't bother the first time.
Is there an eye roll emoji?
I wish.... I wish he is the only and I mean only primarch I actually hate. Selfish ignorant self cannonizing. Didn't help save the Galaxy but made the rules when it was saved. God I hate him and his coward swarm legions.
Maybe you could stop hating him if you accepted some of the stories about him which show him as a benevolent tactically minded master of warcraft. Most stories about him actually do that.
Hating is not good for yourself, and in the end, it is a fictional universe. I get being passionate about it, I sometimes am, too, but if it hurts you so much, maybe you should try being a tad less passionate.
Chikout wrote: OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.
Spoiler:
After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.
Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.
there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.
Why would gillyman show up to help terra, he didn't bother the first time.
Is there an eye roll emoji?
I wish.... I wish he is the only and I mean only primarch I actually hate. Selfish ignorant self cannonizing. Didn't help save the Galaxy but made the rules when it was saved. God I hate him and his coward swarm legions.
Maybe you could stop hating him if you accepted some of the stories about him which show him as a benevolent tactically minded master of warcraft. Most stories about him actually do that.
Hating is not good for yourself, and in the end, it is a fictional universe. I get being passionate about it, I sometimes am, too, but if it hurts you so much, maybe you should try being a tad less passionate.
It doesn't hurt me to hate him I just hate him lol. Then my Scottish blood kicks in and people needs to see why I hate him. But at the end of the day I could care less if he not a demon primarch or dorn he is usless to me........ Poor dorm the Galaxy should of been yours my friend.
Btw less other primarchs more dorn hell they are doubling up on primarchs and I still don't have dorn.
Chikout wrote: OK here is what they said about the story in the live stream. Mild spoilers ahead.
Spoiler:
After the end of the first book when the imperium and Eldar, everyone heads back to Macragge for reasons. When they get there the find it under full blown assault by the black legion. Apparently the destruction of the pylons at Cabin has let chaos strike pretty much anywhere they like.
Some grey Knights tip up too, including the new guy.
Anyway the chaos invasion gets as far as the very chamber in which roboute is sleeping. He wakes up somehow, turns the tide on chaos and in no time at all wins the war for Macragge.
After this they need to go to Terra for reasons, but warp travel is a bit tricky. They end having to go through the maelstrom for reasons. They meet Cypher who says he will help them through the maelstrom if they take him to Terra.
there is apparently a lot of stuff about Rob dealing with the changes to the imperium in his absence. Celestial freaks him out a bit because she reminds him of Dad. He apparently also knows Cawl from way back.
Why would gillyman show up to help terra, he didn't bother the first time.
Is there an eye roll emoji?
I wish.... I wish he is the only and I mean only primarch I actually hate. Selfish ignorant self cannonizing. Didn't help save the Galaxy but made the rules when it was saved. God I hate him and his coward swarm legions.
I may be wrong in this but, I thought there was no new gene seeds being made so how did the ultramarine become like 2/3 the overall marines? Everyone else is trying to keep it pure and maintain what they got (which this may be from a older edition but) I remember them saying there is no gene seeds being made so any that is lost is tragic event. that's why the apoth gather them so feverly and if it is lost that's 1 less marine.
Once again you're showing ignorance of the fluff just to flag your hate for the Ultramarines because they get more attention than other special snowflake chapters that nobody cares about.
As one with Scottish blood as well that's an insult to use that as an excuse, regarding another post you made.
what are exactly his skills in that makes him a genius?
Tactical brilliance, logistics second to none, and contrary to popular belief he did a lot of work keeping the Imperium together after the Heresy. He gets a lot of hate for not much reason; a lot from people who obviously haven't actually read any of the books about him. All the Primarchs except the more damaged ones were geniuses.
And remember, the Ultramarines were, I think, by far the largest Legion in 30K and the Traitors worked hard at destroying/limiting/delaying them from the get go - including working to make sure they couldn't get to Terra 'in time'.
The Ultras - and Guilliman - were a HUGE threat and Chaos attempted to take him off the board from the start.
Bobthehero wrote: Perhaps he gets the hate for having seemingly no character flaws.
Him and his chapter, every character of which is the bestest at what they do, librarian, chapter master etc. It's like a whole faction of Wesley crushers. Ferrus manus has flaws, which makes him interesting.
what are exactly his skills in that makes him a genius?
Have you seen the 500 Worlds of Macragge? He managed to get things arranged, pre-reunification to be pretty much the Emperor's ideal for humanity.
Betrayal at Calth? Caught completely with his pants down, struck from a corner he couldn't possibly have predicated at the time - still wiped the floor with his foe as soon as he got a bit of organisation going.
As for the other poster, and Guilliman 'not bothering' to turn up? Someone needs to read up on the Ruinstorm. What it was. Why it was. Here's a hint - the best way to stop the Ultramarine Legion deploying in strength.
Second Founding? A calculated risk. Arguably weaken the whole (no real overall commander for the most part), but preventing betrayal on the scale of the Heresy from ever happening again.
Magnus was less of a traitor than Girlyman. In fact until they retcon even more of it the only time girlyman and the UM nearly start a fight is against Dorn,Russ and Vulkan.
Turned Traitor and founded his own imperium at earliest opportunity after Horus rebels - Check
Tried talking other loyalists from heading to Terra - check
Did not turn up to Terra until after battle was finished - check
Threw a hissy fit when Russ called him out for hiding and then demanded the break up of all other legions all most causing another civil war - check
ensured that when his legion was broken up that they were all still subservient to Ultra's and as close to macrage as possible - check
Made sure he was named as a permanent member of the high lords of terra - check
Ensured that most new chapters founded were from UM geneseed - check
what are exactly his skills in that makes him a genius?
Have you seen the 500 Worlds of Macragge? He managed to get things arranged, pre-reunification to be pretty much the Emperor's ideal for humanity.
Betrayal at Calth? Caught completely with his pants down, struck from a corner he couldn't possibly have predicated at the time - still wiped the floor with his foe as soon as he got a bit of organisation going.
As for the other poster, and Guilliman 'not bothering' to turn up? Someone needs to read up on the Ruinstorm. What it was. Why it was. Here's a hint - the best way to stop the Ultramarine Legion deploying in strength.
Second Founding? A calculated risk. Arguably weaken the whole (no real overall commander for the most part), but preventing betrayal on the scale of the Heresy from ever happening again.
Seriously. Read the sodding background!
I did 2 decades ago sadly since then Girlyman has been getting crowbarred in evermore
SarisKhan wrote: Hmm, Roboute's apparently gonna fight the Black Legion. Any chance we get some Abaddon vs. Guilliman action? That could be quite interesting.
Considering Abaddon would be fighting a Primarch, I very much doubt that would end well for him. Daemon weapon or no. Plus we've yet to see how Abaddon does post injury. Sure, he's Astartes but it was hardly a flesh wound he took there lol.
SarisKhan wrote: Hmm, Roboute's apparently gonna fight the Black Legion. Any chance we get some Abaddon vs. Guilliman action? That could be quite interesting.
Considering Abaddon would be fighting a Primarch, I very much doubt that would end well for him. Daemon weapon or no. Plus we've yet to see how Abaddon does post injury. Sure, he's Astartes but it was hardly a flesh wound he took there lol.
Well, Abaddon is a veteran Terminator with a Primarch-grade weapon, a Daemon sword and the combined favour of 4 Chaos Gods. Though you're right that wound could prove... inconvenient in a potential confrontation.
Anyway, I'm pretty hyped about all this stuff. Just keeping my standards at a medium setting and enjoying the story for what it is.
Bobthehero wrote: Perhaps he gets the hate for having seemingly no character flaws.
Thing is all his flaws like the rest of his character are rather "normal" for a Primarch. He's not a vampire angel/viking wolfman/super powered Rosarch/religious nutter/blood crazed Sparticus/paranoid maybe traitor/secret twin/easily led one eyed super psyker ect
what are exactly his skills in that makes him a genius?
SeanDrake wrote: Magnus was less of a traitor than Girlyman. In fact until they retcon even more of it the only time girlyman and the UM nearly start a fight is against Dorn,Russ and Vulkan.
Turned Traitor and founded his own imperium at earliest opportunity after Horus rebels - Check
Tried talking other loyalists from heading to Terra - check
Did not turn up to Terra until after battle was finished - check
Threw a hissy fit when Russ called him out for hiding and then demanded the break up of all other legions all most causing another civil war - check
ensured that when his legion was broken up that they were all still subservient to Ultra's and as close to macrage as possible - check
Made sure he was named as a permanent member of the high lords of terra - check
Ensured that most new chapters founded were from UM geneseed - check
See, he obviously was a genius. Would make a perfect villian in fact. Too bad there's no way GW will go in that direction with the plot.
Bobthehero wrote: Perhaps he gets the hate for having seemingly no character flaws.
He does if you actually read the books he's in rather than just subscribing to the whole 'spiritual leige' bullcrap on the internet.
What are they then? So far you've done nothing being reinforce the idea he's worthy of the Spiritual Liege mockery.
Not really, I pointed out that all the Primarchs are geniuses. He's no better than the others (mostly, except a few obvious broken examples). He didn't get on well with most of his brothers (the reason why he wasn't in consideration for Warmaster, he had the skills, but not the personality or people skills), he wasn't as creative tactically as some of his brothers, which caused issues with people like Alpharius who's method of war he didn't agree with. He took ideas from his brothers such as the Fulmentarus terminators being based on the Tyrant Siege Terminators, and he created the Moritat idea after being beaten in simulation by Corax multiple times. While he could respond to new tactics used against him, it took a little time as he had a tendency to stick to tried and true methods of war, and his Legion had a very rigid chain of command which led to some problems.
SeanDrake wrote: Magnus was less of a traitor than Girlyman. In fact until they retcon even more of it the only time girlyman and the UM nearly start a fight is against Dorn,Russ and Vulkan.
Turned Traitor and founded his own imperium at earliest opportunity after Horus rebels - Check
Tried talking other loyalists from heading to Terra - check
Did not turn up to Terra until after battle was finished - check
Threw a hissy fit when Russ called him out for hiding and then demanded the break up of all other legions all most causing another civil war - check
ensured that when his legion was broken up that they were all still subservient to Ultra's and as close to macrage as possible - check
Made sure he was named as a permanent member of the high lords of terra - check
Ensured that most new chapters founded were from UM geneseed - check
what are exactly his skills in that makes him a genius?
Have you seen the 500 Worlds of Macragge? He managed to get things arranged, pre-reunification to be pretty much the Emperor's ideal for humanity.
Betrayal at Calth? Caught completely with his pants down, struck from a corner he couldn't possibly have predicated at the time - still wiped the floor with his foe as soon as he got a bit of organisation going.
As for the other poster, and Guilliman 'not bothering' to turn up? Someone needs to read up on the Ruinstorm. What it was. Why it was. Here's a hint - the best way to stop the Ultramarine Legion deploying in strength.
Second Founding? A calculated risk. Arguably weaken the whole (no real overall commander for the most part), but preventing betrayal on the scale of the Heresy from ever happening again.
Seriously. Read the sodding background!
I did 2 decades ago sadly since then Girlyman has been getting crowbarred in evermore
Finally someone else who read the fluff about the near heretic emo coward gillyman. I never seen any fluff of him being anything other then that.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The DA are in that awkward position where all the things they have done to continue the cover up are probably now worse than the original misdeed. Maybe they will finally come clean and receive absolution from the Imperial authorities? Considering the desperate times and if they have a Primarch and the GK vouching for them, it could happen.
It doesn't really, what they have done as part of the cover up is no worse than what some other chapters have got up to, the minotaurs being one of those chapters. Yeah, it's been quite an unsavoury 10000 years, but hey, half your legion turning traitor right after/during the heresy with the guy leading them being all pumped up on chaos roids.... I know which one I think would warrant Russ being sent to knock on their door to escort them to Belize, and it isn't the cover up shenanigans.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The DA are in that awkward position where all the things they have done to continue the cover up are probably now worse than the original misdeed. Maybe they will finally come clean and receive absolution from the Imperial authorities? Considering the desperate times and if they have a Primarch and the GK vouching for them, it could happen.
It doesn't really, what they have done as part of the cover up is no worse than what some other chapters have got up to, the minotaurs being one of those chapters. Yeah, it's been quite an unsavoury 10000 years, but hey, half your legion turning traitor right after/during the heresy with the guy leading them being all pumped up on chaos roids.... I know which one I think would warrant Russ being sent to knock on their door to escort them to Belize, and it isn't the cover up shenanigans.
The Minotaurs are rumoured to have ties directly to the High Lords of Terra though, so anything they do is most likely authorised.
SarisKhan wrote: Hmm, Roboute's apparently gonna fight the Black Legion. Any chance we get some Abaddon vs. Guilliman action? That could be quite interesting.
Considering Abaddon would be fighting a Primarch, I very much doubt that would end well for him. Daemon weapon or no. Plus we've yet to see how Abaddon does post injury. Sure, he's Astartes but it was hardly a flesh wound he took there lol.
Well, Abaddon is a veteran Terminator with a Primarch-grade weapon, a Daemon sword and the combined favour of 4 Chaos Gods. Though you're right that wound could prove... inconvenient in a potential confrontation.
Anyway, I'm pretty hyped about all this stuff. Just keeping my standards at a medium setting and enjoying the story for what it is.
And in the fluff Abaddon started possibly with a leg up on other marines as it was rumored he was a larger than normal sized "clone" of horus to begin with. A relatively poor copy of a primarch augmented by four mystical powers with even greater abilities sounds like a good match for a sickly actual primarch just resuscitated and still on power armor life support.
While I don't like this rumor that Abbadon is going to die - I can see him coming back as Abbadon ascended. Just like Fantasy Archaon showed up in AoS riding that monstrous chaos dragon creature.
Given all he's posted so far, I presume this question was rhetorical?
casvalremdeikun wrote: That is, by far, the most irritating part of GW releasing Rowboat first. Dorn and the Lion don't already have FW models.
The two have nothing to do with one another.
And why is this annoying now, and now 2 months ago when Magnus came out? Because it's Roboute and the utterly OTT Flanderisation hatred of the Ultramarines the saturates the Intertnet now as one of GW's highest forms of baseless hyperbole?
Maybe you could stop hating him if you accepted some of the stories about him which show him as a benevolent tactically minded master of warcraft. Most stories about him actually do that. .
Indeed. One of the best things to come from the Horus Heresy series was that they managed to make RG and his cookie-cutter Legion interesting.
I went into the Ultramarines books all prepared to dislike them, and came out of them thinking that Guilliman was actually pretty cool.
ImAGeek wrote: ... He gets a lot of hate for not much reason...
Oh the reason is obvious: Matt Ward.
And not specifically the Marine Codex he wrote, but more the interview in White Dwarf where he made the now-infamous "spiritual liege" comment, and the "every Marine wants to be an Ultramarine" comment.
And I'm not blaming Ward for this (at least not directly). More the Internet echo-chamber that, as mentioned above, Flanderised the ever living feth out of both the comment and the Ultramarines so they went from being exemplars of the Astartes to rigid adherents of a book where they don't do anything unless its written exactly in the Codex Astartes (something the actual fluff has never conveyed in the slightest).
rollawaythestone wrote: While I don't like this rumor that Abbadon is going to die - I can see him coming back as Abbadon ascended. Just like Fantasy Archaon showed up in AoS riding that monstrous chaos dragon creature.
Indeed. Going be recent precedent, it will be a 120mm base covered in a 12" tall pillar of swyrley gak(TM) with the top half of Abaddon buried in there somewhere if you squint.
Bobthehero wrote: Perhaps he gets the hate for having seemingly no character flaws.
He does if you actually read the books he's in rather than just subscribing to the whole 'spiritual leige' bullcrap on the internet.
What are they then? So far you've done nothing being reinforce the idea he's worthy of the Spiritual Liege mockery.
He lacked empathy and the ability to delegate. He was unable to trust people to accomplish anything but himself to the point that even the emperor wasn't beyond question. He needed his hands in all aspects of his empire to the point that you can cripple it by distracting him.
He was so stalwart in his ways that he forbade improvements in his legion and it took a whole slew of his men getting gibbed before he considered some kinda organizational heraldry.
He was also a hoarder, and had a room full of gak he'd collected from all over the place.
You just happened to jump at the "hurr durr rowboat' crap instead of actually giving him a chance.
insaniak wrote: Indeed. Going be recent precedent, it will be a 120mm base covered in a 12" tall pillar of swyrley gak(TM) with the top half of Abaddon buried in there somewhere if you squint.
It's Swyrley Bull gak™. Get it right.
And he'll probably end up riding some sort of hideously designed monstrous thing and end up as one of the line's most expensive single miniatures.
rollawaythestone wrote: While I don't like this rumor that Abbadon is going to die - I can see him coming back as Abbadon ascended. Just like Fantasy Archaon showed up in AoS riding that monstrous chaos dragon creature.
Quick note, that's his horse from the original model, who was always a demon. He was fed Greater Daemons and grew to that size after devouring a bloodthirster, a GUO, a LoC, and a VerminLord (or whatever they are) that Archeon slew himself.. He didn't just show up that way.
I'm actually hopeful that Abbadon will get just an updated model, not something that has made him xbawkshueg. I really like him as a character just being a really old, powerful, and shenanigany space marine.
It's been 20 some-odd year fluff that the Ultramarines were purposefully tied up by the Word Bearers and a warpstorm to keep the might of Ultramar from reinforcing Terra, with new fluff having a flawless attack destroy their fleet amd leaving them without transportation in the first place.....but do I get to be cool if I jump on the hyperbole-filled hate train? 'cause I wanna be cool.
I'm actually hopeful that Abbadon will get just an updated model, not something that has made him xbawkshueg. I really like him as a character just being a really old, powerful, and shenanigany space marine.
That would be my preference as well. But I have a feeling GW would not have shown his existing model in part1 if he was getting an straight update in the same vein as Kharn and Ahriman.
I went into the Ultramarines books all prepared to dislike them, and came out of them thinking that Guilliman was actually pretty cool.
Me too !
Me three.
Almost everything I've read with Ultramarines in it (all the HH books proper, Nightbringer and the Primarch novella) has, overall, raised them in my estimation, they'll never be my favorite Legion, but I'm not as irritated by their existence as I once was.
Alpharius wrote:And remember, the Ultramarines were, I think, by far the largest Legion in 30K and the Traitors worked hard at destroying/limiting/delaying them from the get go - including working to make sure they couldn't get to Terra 'in time'.
Funny when I use that excuse for Lion El'Johnson that he was tied up people say he was on the fence. So for Rob he was held up or was he really defending his empire?
From the moment he heard about the Heresy (and no, I don't recall which book out of the million or so that I've read so far) the Lion was hedging his bets. They skirt around whether this is as a result of wanting to choose the winning side, or just wanting a clearer idea of what was going on before committing to anything, but the end result is there. He deliberately held off from trying to reach Terra because he wanted more information first.
Guilliman, on the other hand, held off from heading for Terra because he believed the Emperor was already dead and so didn't think there was any point in doing so. And then he was blocked in by the Ruinstorm.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Daft thing about the Dark Angels? Most of the Legions had their traitor elements.
I gamed & followed the DA and was also of the belief that the loyal were actually traitors. However, have you read Angels of Caliban?
Spoiler:
As the Dark Angels made their final preparations to depart back to Caliban, the Lion went back to the Tuchulcha Engine's chamber. He then ordered the device to teleport himself and Holguin, 'Deathbringer', the voted-lieutenant of the Deathwing, back to Macragge. As Sanguinius prepared to execute Curze for his crimes, both the Lion and his lieutenant teleported directly into the chamber and told Sanguinius to stop. As troops entered the room, demanding the Lion to surrender, El'Jonson explained his reasons for the intrusion. He reasoned that Curze had the ability to see precognitive visions of potential futures, and repeated the Night Haunter's claim that his death would one day come at the hands of an assassin sent by the Emperor. If this was true, the Lion reasoned, than it was proof that the Emperor was still alive. Sanguinius knew the Lion's explanation rang true, as he recognised that his own precognitive visions of his inevitable death would also eventually come to pass. When Guilliman demanded to know what would become of Curze, the Lion knelt before his two brothers and promised that he would be Curze's gaoler.
Return to Caliban
Lion El'Jonson and a loyal Calibanite Dark Angels Battle-Brothers
Jonson, wracked with grief over the inability of his Dark Angels to reach Terra in time to prevent the fall of the Emperor during the Siege of Terra at the end of the Horus Heresy, returned to Caliban to reinforce his Dark Angels and recover from the shock of the Heresy. When the starships arrived in Calibanite orbit, they were fired upon by a savage salvo of defensive fire from the surface. The fleet pulled back and Jonson tried to find out what was happening. He learned from a merchant ship that Luther had poisoned the minds of the Space Marine garrison on the world and taken control. It could only be seen by Jonson as the taint of Chaos. Jonson's fury was let loose and the planet suffered. He ordered a systematic orbital bombardment of the planet, to rid the world of Chaos for all time.
The planet burned and its defences were whittled down to nothing. Jonson led his forces personally against the defenders who had taken refuge in the Order's Fortress-Monastery. Jonson found Luther and saw him to be completely corrupted by Chaos, almost nothing of his old friend had survived. Luther, now a Chaos Champion, had been elevated to a strength equal to that of Jonson by the Chaos Gods and the two met in a combat the likes of which would not be seen again. They levelled the monastery around them but the planet was also taking a heavy toll. The bombardment began to crack the surface of the planet, the Dark Angels in orbit unable to see the damage they were doing.
Final Battle
Destruction of Caliban
Caliban is destroyed in a great conflagration during the final battle between El'Jonson and the Arch-Traitor Luther
The battle between Luther and Jonson was titanic, but ended with a psychic attack which appeared to mortally wound Jonson. Luther then realised what he had done, as if a veil of deceit had been lifted from in front of his eyes. He fell to the floor, unwilling to fight any more, but it was too late for Jonson. The enraged Ruinous Powers of Chaos realised they had lost again, and sent a massive Warp storm to wrack the surface of the planet. It then broke apart under the strain, destroyed all but for the monastery of the Order which had been protected by potent defensive force-fields. When the Dark Angels descended to what remained of Caliban, little more than an asteroid upon which stood the Order's fortress-monastery, they searched the ruins and found Luther mumbling that Jonson had been taken by the Watchers in the Dark and would return one day and forgive Luther for his sins. The Dark Angels could not find any trace of their Primarch. The rest of the Dark Angels who had been converted by Luther to the worship of Chaos were sucked into the Warp and scattered across the galaxy. From that time forward they were named the Fallen Angels or simply the Fallen.
Fate of the Lion
During his duel with Luther on Caliban, Lion El'Jonson suffered a severe psychic blow which left him mortally wounded. He was then briefly pulled into the raging Warp vortex. Luther survived the contest, but proved mentally unhinged and was taken prisoner by the Dark Angels. He was placed into a stasis cell deep within the bowels of The Rock (the remains of the Order's mightiest fortress-monastery and all that was left of their world Caliban), to contemplate his crimes against the Chapter's Primarch, his continued existence a secret known only to each successive Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels, whose cell can only be accessed through the use of the Sword of Secrets, the Chapter artifact which is the mark of the Supreme Grand Master's office. Jonson, who had been briefly spirited away into the Warp during the destruction of Caliban, eventually emerged and was taken into a hidden and unreachable chamber deep within the heart of The Rock by the Watchers in the Dark and placed into stasis to keep him alive. This is a secret known only to the Emperor of Mankind Himself who, despite his living death, still sees all upon the Golden Throne. Even the Supreme Grand Master of the Chapter is not privy to this last and greatest secret of the Dark Angels. Some among the Dark Angels whisper that one day the Lion will return to lead one final Crusade intended to achieve the Dark Angels' greatest victory for Mankind and finally bring justice and redemption to the remaining Fallen Angels. None know that this legend has more truth to it than they realize, or that their lost Primarch now sleeps peacefully at the heart of their own fortress-monastery.
Also, Angels of Caliban is pretty damn clear that Luther was NOT a loyalist. Not strtictly chaos at that point, more of a secessionist, Zahariel was corrupted by chaos. Astelan was just a basic, power hungry dick.
And the Lion was about to return to Caliban to save his Legion, of which demise he was warned by a Watcher several times abort the Invincible Reason. Yet he chose to teleport back as said above because he realised Big E was still around!
So how did he decide to do the above when doing the other thing was way way better for his own power base? His priorities do seem rather... loyal to me.
Johnson to me seems to be the kind of guy that will NOT go into a situation half-cocked. He has a history of saying "Slow down let's look at the situation, and come up with a plan."
This is pretty much the whole reason he got into that brawl with Leman Russ. Johnson wanted to be a tactician, but Russ ran ahead and charged the enemy. Johnson face-palmed, and did the tactically correct thing. Johnson slays the warlord, Russ gets mad because of stolen glory, and the two throw down.
Okay, so anyway. What's the best guess for what detachments or formations will be in here? I wouldn't be surprised if it is three Decurion Type detachments, one for DA/Fallen, one for UM, and one for GK. Then a couple of formations for each. Potentially similar rules to what Celestine and whatnot received that allow them to be used as an HQ in any army of the Imperium. Guilliman will probably have something like that, but he will be usable as an LoW for everyone. Relics for Fallen and UM.
All these people hating on the Ultramarines for getting the first plastic loyalist Primarch and I don't even want him as the model is terrible. Sure having 40k rules for him will be super awesome as my FW version will be usable in 40k now, but the model is hideous.
I would be very surprised if we do not alternate between a loyalist and traitor Primarch model over the coming months with Abaddon standing in for Horus.
Carnikang wrote: I'm actually hopeful that Abbadon will get just an updated model, not something that has made him xbawkshueg. I really like him as a character just being a really old, powerful, and shenanigany space marine.
I'm still hoping that he is part of a quintiumvirate box with him as a slightly bulked out terminator, and then his 4 chosen (one from each god)
GoatboyBeta wrote: That would be my preference as well. But I have a feeling GW would not have shown his existing model in part1 if he was getting an straight update in the same vein as Kharn and Ahriman.
Alternatively, it would be really hard to have a story in which Abbadon has such a central role and not include him in art or photos. If GW is not ready to release or show off a new model, that means the old one has to be used.
Carnikang wrote: I'm actually hopeful that Abbadon will get just an updated model, not something that has made him xbawkshueg. I really like him as a character just being a really old, powerful, and shenanigany space marine.
I'm still hoping that he is part of a quintiumvirate box with him as a slightly bulked out terminator, and then his 4 chosen (one from each god)
GoatboyBeta wrote: That would be my preference as well. But I have a feeling GW would not have shown his existing model in part1 if he was getting an straight update in the same vein as Kharn and Ahriman.
Alternatively, it would be really hard to have a story in which Abbadon has such a central role and not include him in art or photos. If GW is not ready to release or show off a new model, that means the old one has to be used.
Wow, I really like that Terminator Idea, that would be cool as hell!
I'd really like Abaddon to be just a fancy Terminator but for he and Robert Guilliman to be reasonably well matched despite the size difference. I'm also hopeful that they'll give Abaddon a helmet this time.
EDIT: Or Abaddon could feed Greater Daemons to one of his Terminator bodyguards until they turn into an enormous multi-headed dragon for him to ride. That way they could make him a huge model without turning him into a Daemon Prince or whatever.
No the model is not hideous. Hideous is what I would say minis from the 80s and 90s compared to now. I am sure people can come up with more hideous minis. Is it great? I don't think so. Good? It's slowly growing on me once I seen the photo shops. Thing is there are far more hideous minis that this. Your opinion is valid though but I think you are on the hate train just like you were claiming with all the other people on hating Ultramarines.
No the model is not hideous. Hideous is what I would say minis from the 80s and 90s compared to now. I am sure people can come up with more hideous minis. Is it great? I don't think so. Good? It's slowly growing on me once I seen the photo shops. Thing is there are far more hideous minis that this. Your opinion is valid though but I think you are on the hate train just like you were claiming with all the other people on hating Ultramarines.
It's all opinion, dude. Personally, I think this model is genuinely as ugly as that ancient Nagash model. I literally don't have words for how horrendous I find it. I'm sure it's very technically accomplished, but it's still horrific in my eyes.
No the model is not hideous. Hideous is what I would say minis from the 80s and 90s compared to now. I am sure people can come up with more hideous minis. Is it great? I don't think so. Good? It's slowly growing on me once I seen the photo shops. Thing is there are far more hideous minis that this. Your opinion is valid though but I think you are on the hate train just like you were claiming with all the other people on hating Ultramarines.
Comparing models from different eras to now is perfectly valid past time, but ultimately self defeating as sculpting has improved, casting/production has improved, and even painting has improved. Modern models have far more options than the often flat sculpted stuff from the 80s. Compare it other premium character models of a similar price bracket from the last few years and what is much worse?
It is the design decisions rather than limitations of the time, tools, or even staff that has me annoyed with the new Guilliman model, the face in particular is just plain ugly. Yes I could put the much better looking helmet on the model, but I think most would want their Warlord, Primarch of their Legion to be bare headed. Then there is the excessive detailing on the model. I'm sure a different style of paint job on the 40k model would help, but currently all the detail looks soft and wishy washy.
Have to say though. AM's ability to invent is underestimated a lot. After all they quickly came up with new armour and sword for Guillimann and cannot have had all that much time to do it!
tneva82 wrote: Have to say though. AM's ability to invent is underestimated a lot. After all they quickly came up with new armour and sword for Guillimann and cannot have had all that much time to do it!
It's not a new sword, it's one of God-Emperor's swords.
Roboute Guilliman returns to the Imperium after several millennia in stasis, resurrected by arcane Imperial artifice and fell xenos sorcery (which we’re pretty sure some in the Imperium are very much not ok with). His suit of armour is a marvel to behold – the pinnacle of power-armoured technology (courtesy of Belisarius Cawl) while his blade is no less than one of the blazing swords once carried by the Emperor of Mankind himself. Crowning his armour is a celestial halo, an obvious symbol of the Emperor’s blessing, perhaps gifted by some other hero of the Imperium..
Alpharius wrote: Yes, the filigree/scroll work is an issue here - it is almost as if GW was afraid to have too many 'blank spaces' on a model this big?
Though really it would have been fine (better?) without a lot of that extra fiddly detail.
GW has mastered the "art" of greeble.
The sad part is, if half of that stuff wasn't there, then we'd have people complaining about a lack of detail, because GW has trained people to expect rivets, scrolls, filigree, skulls, etc., to be all over a model.
One of the emperor's swords? What, did he have multiple? Is there a closet with a bunch of swords in the imperial palace, complete with a fedora? While humanity was building starships, the Emperor was studying the blade.
Anyway, crazy thought, but what if one of the Emperor's swords was a Crone sword? They can change shape, can't they? And going by the Void Dragon, the Emperor is not above using alien tech.
Alpharius wrote: Yes, the filigree/scroll work is an issue here - it is almost as if GW was afraid to have too many 'blank spaces' on a model this big?
Though really it would have been fine (better?) without a lot of that extra fiddly detail.
GW has mastered the "art" of greeble.
The sad part is, if half of that stuff wasn't there, then we'd have people complaining about a lack of detail, because GW has trained people to expect rivets, scrolls, filigree, skulls, etc., to be all over a model.
The problem is flat panels are a bitch: either you make several cool looking blends do make it look good, or edge highlight all around it, or it'll look just like that, a flat panel.
Huh, hadn't noticed before, but it looks like Girlyman is more apt a nickname than previously believed given the "shapely" form of Rowboat's chestplate there.
Yodhrin wrote: Huh, hadn't noticed before, but it looks like Girlyman is more apt a nickname than previously believed given the "shapely" form of Rowboat's chestplate there.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: One of the emperor's swords? What, did he have multiple? Is there a closet with a bunch of swords in the imperial palace, complete with a fedora? While humanity was building starships, the Emperor was studying the blade.
Tens of thousands of planets under his command... leading billions of warriors during the Great Crusade... and he should only have one close combat weapon? What if it breaks? Or needs maintenance? Does he just sit out that battle because he forgot to pack a spare? Even if the Emperor was just some foppish, flabby, middle aged inbred noble who never saw combat, he wouldn't have just one of any weapon.
Or he could use a gun like everyone else. Or just make their heads explode with mind bullets. You can't break a sword if you don't use it constantly, and someone like the Emperor should be able to have a really tough and reliable blade that would never break.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: One of the emperor's swords? What, did he have multiple? Is there a closet with a bunch of swords in the imperial palace, complete with a fedora? While humanity was building starships, the Emperor was studying the blade.
Tens of thousands of planets under his command... leading billions of warriors during the Great Crusade... and he should only have one close combat weapon? What if it breaks? Or needs maintenance? Does he just sit out that battle because he forgot to pack a spare? Even if the Emperor was just some foppish, flabby, middle aged inbred noble who never saw combat, he wouldn't have just one of any weapon.
Not just swords either. He used to carry an awesome version of a Custodes Guardian Spear, which he gave to Constantin Valdor when he became the custodian-in-chief.
That sounds cool, actually. I don't mind him having a variety of weapons, but having a bunch of the same close combat weapon made for him seems redundant, especially when he already has access to firearms and psi powers, as well as an army.
Now, what I could imagine is that he has a bunch of trophies that he accumulated from his conquests. He doesn't really use them, but they could be used as they are still perfectly functioning weapons.
Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)
The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.
Kirasu wrote: Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)
The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.
Or maybe wait for the actual story before complaining? So please tell me what is the explanation? After all the way you are talking you seem to know the answers.
Kirasu wrote: Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)
The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.
Or maybe wait for the actual story before complaining? So please tell me what is the explanation? After all the way you are talking you seem to know the answers.
Okay, shut down all threads in news and rumors then. I'm responding based on what was posted from those that read parts of the new book and based on the precedence from the previous 2 books and WFB End Times. All of those are extremely cartoonish and comic bookish in their story.
Kirasu wrote: Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)
The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.
Or maybe wait for the actual story before complaining? So please tell me what is the explanation? After all the way you are talking you seem to know the answers.
"Man you people are just getting upset over nothing, you'd have to be mental to think GW would blow up a whole setting."
"Jeezo, check out all the Chicken Littles in here - sure, they blew up the setting, but all this 'bubblehammer/realms' stuff can't be right, and even if it is we should give it a chance."
"Alright so the first few novels have been a bit lacklustre and they can't seem to to stop randomly inserting the letter 'y' into things, but it's only been a few months give them a chance."
"OK so this 40K stuff is looking disturbingly familiar and they're using Eldar death magic or somesuch to bring back a Primarch which folk used to semi-jokingly say would be the indicator that GW had finally run out of ideas, but I'm sure if you join me in placing your head inside this lovely sand everything will turn out good in the end."
At some stage giving the benefit of the doubt stops being the rational default position to take.
Kirasu wrote: Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)
The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.
His new armour incorporates some kind of life-support system which he presumably needs to stay alive. Guilliman already knows Cawl, so from his perspective he isn't some random dude.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: That sounds cool, actually. I don't mind him having a variety of weapons, but having a bunch of the same close combat weapon made for him seems redundant, especially when he already has access to firearms and psi powers, as well as an army.
Now, what I could imagine is that he has a bunch of trophies that he accumulated from his conquests. He doesn't really use them, but they could be used as they are still perfectly functioning weapons.
There are lots of types of sword. I really don't find the idea of the Emperor of Mankind having more than one sword being that hard to imagine.
Kirasu wrote: Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)
The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.
You're pretty mean. I for one like comic books
I might convert Girlyman into the Emperor, now that he's getting rules.
Kirasu wrote: Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)
The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.
Or maybe wait for the actual story before complaining? So please tell me what is the explanation? After all the way you are talking you seem to know the answers.
"Man you people are just getting upset over nothing, you'd have to be mental to think GW would blow up a whole setting."
"Jeezo, check out all the Chicken Littles in here - sure, they blew up the setting, but all this 'bubblehammer/realms' stuff can't be right, and even if it is we should give it a chance."
"Alright so the first few novels have been a bit lacklustre and they can't seem to to stop randomly inserting the letter 'y' into things, but it's only been a few months give them a chance."
"OK so this 40K stuff is looking disturbingly familiar and they're using Eldar death magic or somesuch to bring back a Primarch which folk used to semi-jokingly say would be the indicator that GW had finally run out of ideas, but I'm sure if you join me in placing your head inside this lovely sand everything will turn out good in the end."
At some stage giving the benefit of the doubt stops being the rational default position to take.
I just turned my attention back to 40K and I just hope that you are wrong, because I really liked 40K for several decades. What was the bit with inserting 'y' into things about?
kronk wrote: Did they say at the HH weekender when the Emperor is getting rules? Book 8 or 9, maybe?
Probably the last book in the series along with Superchaosmegazord Horus for the big finale. I can't see forgeworld doing it any sooner. Have they announced the names of the books 8 or 9?
kronk wrote: Did they say at the HH weekender when the Emperor is getting rules? Book 8 or 9, maybe?
Probably the last book in the series along with Superchaosmegazord Horus for the big finale. I can't see forgeworld doing it any sooner. Have they announced the names of the books 8 or 9?
Next book is Angelus and covers:
I think we'll hit the Siege faster than the series takes to finish, they'll just go back and fill in the gaps when they get time. At the weekender they said they'd carry on making the books for as long as people are buying them.
I'm still expecting a 40k end of times, even though they have said it won't be, so I'm still expecting the Emperor to turn up near the end of 40k.
Kirasu wrote: Guilliman crafted his own armor during the Heresy.. so did he wake up and just throw it away? So bizarre they gave him this new armor made by some random mechanicum guy (who apparently was alive in the Heresy.. OBVIOUSLY!)
The story is on par with comic books, which is to say it's fairly terrible and convoluted.
Or maybe wait for the actual story before complaining? So please tell me what is the explanation? After all the way you are talking you seem to know the answers.
"Man you people are just getting upset over nothing, you'd have to be mental to think GW would blow up a whole setting."
"Jeezo, check out all the Chicken Littles in here - sure, they blew up the setting, but all this 'bubblehammer/realms' stuff can't be right, and even if it is we should give it a chance."
"Alright so the first few novels have been a bit lacklustre and they can't seem to to stop randomly inserting the letter 'y' into things, but it's only been a few months give them a chance."
"OK so this 40K stuff is looking disturbingly familiar and they're using Eldar death magic or somesuch to bring back a Primarch which folk used to semi-jokingly say would be the indicator that GW had finally run out of ideas, but I'm sure if you join me in placing your head inside this lovely sand everything will turn out good in the end."
At some stage giving the benefit of the doubt stops being the rational default position to take.
There are no tanks in Baghdad. Nothing to see here, move along.
I forget after the gathering storm rumours what was the next planned campaign? Was it war in the webway or dark angels?
I know the rumours were loose but they have been somewhat accurate so far.
1) why he has a name tag ( as if a big blue guy isn't the primarch?)
2) why he would have purity seals, pretty sure all primarchs are above and beyond that kind 'gold star/ good grade on the fridge' kinda thing...
both probably because he didn't make the armor himself; and I bet people helped him to put it on too. They're probably to blame for covering him with stickers
Pariah-Miniatures wrote: I don't mind the filigree, I just don't understand:
1) why he has a name tag ( as if a big blue guy isn't the primarch?)
2) why he would have purity seals, pretty sure all primarchs are above and beyond that kind 'gold star/ good grade on the fridge' kinda thing...
It does look like his old suit of armor was heavily modified, extra breastplate and all the life support tubes etc.
So if Celestine gave him her iron halo, does that mean in the 3rd book Celestine has worse saves...?
1. Even modern military commanders have name tags, if for no other purpose than for the enemy to read who's killing them as they die.
2. During the heresy they were called oaths, and all swore an oath before going into battle and had it mounted to their armor to show their dedication.
kronk wrote: Did they say at the HH weekender when the Emperor is getting rules? Book 8 or 9, maybe?
Probably the last book in the series along with Superchaosmegazord Horus for the big finale. I can't see forgeworld doing it any sooner. Have they announced the names of the books 8 or 9?
Next book is Angelus and covers:
I think we'll hit the Siege faster than the series takes to finish, they'll just go back and fill in the gaps when they get time. At the weekender they said they'd carry on making the books for as long as people are buying them.
I'm still expecting a 40k end of times, even though they have said it won't be, so I'm still expecting the Emperor to turn up near the end of 40k.
I saw that "What's in the book" and heard it in Brad Pitt's voice.... (SE7EN)
Sad to see people bothered so much by something that may not even change how they enjoy the hobby. It's like they need something to complain about.
There are people who want the Primarchs to return.
There are people who do not.
Neither is wrong, neither is right, and both CAN continue to play warhammer as they like, pre or post primarch.
Alternatively, it would be really hard to have a story in which Abbadon has such a central role and not include him in art or photos. If GW is not ready to release or show off a new model, that means the old one has to be used.
The few photos(2 IIRC) showing his model are just generic battle scenes that don't really require his presence, so he could have easily been left out of them. If his new model resembles the current one as much as Kharn and Ahrimans updates did then the art would have been fine. Maybe I'm over analysing things, but I cant help but feel that Abbadon is either getting a different(probably bigger) look or getting killed off.
If he was just raised from the near-dead, with techniques that may have has something to do with foul xenos, I think it might be a good idea for the chaplain to stick a “He’s OK” seal on him. Just so the boys in blue know it's legit.
Not that Guilliman needs the approval, but it helps keep the questions away.
kronk wrote: Did they say at the HH weekender when the Emperor is getting rules? Book 8 or 9, maybe?
Probably the last book in the series along with Superchaosmegazord Horus for the big finale. I can't see forgeworld doing it any sooner. Have they announced the names of the books 8 or 9?
Next book is Angelus and covers:
I think we'll hit the Siege faster than the series takes to finish, they'll just go back and fill in the gaps when they get time. At the weekender they said they'd carry on making the books for as long as people are buying them.
I'm still expecting a 40k end of times, even though they have said it won't be, so I'm still expecting the Emperor to turn up near the end of 40k.
I saw that "What's in the book" and heard it in Brad Pitt's voice.... (SE7EN)
@krazynadechukr .. aw man, now I can't get that out of my head!
Anyone else look at this image as if Cawl came out of the container as a transport? lol.
I looked more at the pic and saw Calagar next to RG and wondered how those gauntlets used to fit RG. I know they had been taken off a chaos warrior at some point, but I thought that RG had worn them in the past as well. Maybe they just sat in a display case in his hall of trophies.
Bobthehero wrote: Considering the amount of Primarch that turned traitor, slapping a ''I'm pure'' sticker might not be a bad idea.
The Imperium (Minus the Space Marines and a few others) doesn't even know what a Primarch is at this point anyway, or what the Horus Heresy was in actuality. Knowledge isn't exactly the Imperium's strong suit.
Kirasu wrote: Of course, they need every named hero of the imperium in the same spot at the same time.. .to fight a horde of nameless and mostly leaderless CSM!
Boy, you really despise this story arc don't you? It's a cool moment, a last stand kind of deal, it looks pretty cool! All it's missing is their Eldar friends.
Nevelon wrote: If he was just raised from the near-dead, with techniques that may have has something to do with foul xenos, I think it might be a good idea for the chaplain to stick a “He’s OK” seal on him. Just so the boys in blue know it's legit.
Not that Guilliman needs the approval, but it helps keep the questions away.
Breaking News: Guilliman is proven pure by local Chaplains.
I looked more at the pic and saw Calagar next to RG and wondered how those gauntlets used to fit RG. I know they had been taken off a chaos warrior at some point, but I thought that RG had worn them in the past as well. Maybe they just sat in a display case in his hall of trophies.
There are other previously primarch-owned items that have the similar issue. The answer is of course that the primarchs originally weren't mean to be this big. It was the BL which (one again) fethed up the fluff.
I looked more at the pic and saw Calagar next to RG and wondered how those gauntlets used to fit RG. I know they had been taken off a chaos warrior at some point, but I thought that RG had worn them in the past as well. Maybe they just sat in a display case in his hall of trophies.
There are other previously primarch-owned items that have the similar issue. The answer is of course that the primarchs originally weren't mean to be this big. It was the BL which (one again) fethed up the fluff.
I looked more at the pic and saw Calagar next to RG and wondered how those gauntlets used to fit RG. I know they had been taken off a chaos warrior at some point, but I thought that RG had worn them in the past as well. Maybe they just sat in a display case in his hall of trophies.
There are other previously primarch-owned items that have the similar issue. The answer is of course that the primarchs originally weren't mean to be this big. It was the BL which (one again) fethed up the fluff.
I think the problem is space marines higth more then the primarchs.
Space marines should be 7 ish feet tall. They are on scale with the average 6 foot guardsman. That's loss of a foot, the Knights are like 16 feet arnt they? But they shrunk to about 12.
So when a primarch is 8-9 feet tall it throws everything off. They never did a ratio scale just a what looks good scale. Only way to fix it is make everything say 1/9th scale or similar. The way GW does it make them look good doesn't work well.
Tanks are like a 1/12 scale
Marines 1/10
Guards 1/9
Primarchs 1/4
Screws the wolrd up.
Seriously why did auto correct make a extra s turn into( is )and hem into (me) and a doesnt with out the ' turn into( does she not)
I looked more at the pic and saw Calagar next to RG and wondered how those gauntlets used to fit RG. I know they had been taken off a chaos warrior at some point, but I thought that RG had worn them in the past as well. Maybe they just sat in a display case in his hall of trophies.
There are other previously primarch-owned items that have the similar issue. The answer is of course that the primarchs originally weren't mean to be this big. It was the BL which (one again) fethed up the fluff.
I think the problem is space marines higth more then the primarchs.
Space marines should be 7 ish feet tall. They are on scale with the average 6 foot guardsman. That's loss of a foot, the Knights are like 16 feet arnt they? But they shrunk to about 12.
So when a primarch is 8-9 feet tall it throws everything off. They never did a ratio scale just a what looks good scale. Only way to fix it is make everything say 1/9th scale or similar. The way GW does it make them look good doesn't work well.
Tanks are like a 1/12 scale
Marines 1/10
Guards 1/9
Primarchs 1/4
Screws the wolrd up.
Seriously why did auto correct make a extra s turn into( is )and hem into (me) and a doesnt with out the ' turn into( does she not)
Except that doesn't make sense from a tabletop perspective. Regardless of if you think marines are the issue, they already are the scale they are en mass and nothing is fixing that. So it makes more sense to have a leader of that same line match their scale. Not to mention the idea that people harp on about marines being too short when it would be a far easier fix to make a new guard kit scaled down to more of a fire warriors height. The cadians are fething old so it would be the perfect time for said solution.
Edit: Not to mention the issue with marine vehicles, already it's hard to imagine 10 marines in a rhino, yet people want them to be larger. It would blow up the whole line...Uh oh
Kirasu wrote:Of course, they need every named hero of the imperium in the same spot at the same time.. .to fight a horde of nameless and mostly leaderless CSM!
It's a display.
If they actually fought battles like that in 40K, there'd only need to be one single sane commander and he'd conquer the galaxy. Standing in lines like this was last considered cool by the end of M2 (1914), and that was when they noticed high rate of fire heavy weapons were a thing.
Neronoxx wrote: Sad to see people bothered so much by something that may not even change how they enjoy the hobby. It's like they need something to complain about.
There are people who want the Primarchs to return.
There are people who do not.
Neither is wrong, neither is right, and both CAN continue to play warhammer as they like, pre or post primarch.
That's categorically wrong, because if the way I like to play Warhammer is without Primarchs and associated frippery and GW make Primarchs part of the game then I either get used to playing games that involve Primarchs or I don't get to play.
People used this same nonsense argument before, multiple times, and it hasn't stopped being nonsense since the last of them. These days you either accept Formations or you don't get many games. You accept superheavies & Knights or you don't get many games. You accept fliers/AA, or you don't get many games. And soon, you'll either accept Primarchs and whatever else GW cack out as part of the Storm's a' Comin: Totally Not End Times Honest Guv releases to come, or you won't get many games.
Yes, you can retreat entirely into an old edition where 40K still made some kind of sense as a 28mm-scale skirmish game, but it's hard enough getting people to play with for unsupported GW games that are both fan favourites and don't have any present day fully supported version like Mordheim, for 2nd-5th edition 40K it will be a nightmare. And that's assuming you can lay hands on all the required books.
If you like the idea of Primarchs in 40K, on you go, enjoy, have fun, but don't widdle on my cheerios and tell me it's milk - people who don't fancy the idea are perfectly justified in being put out as it will negatively affect us(in either reduced opportunities to play, or less satisfying games where we have to put up with something we dislike).
I looked more at the pic and saw Calagar next to RG and wondered how those gauntlets used to fit RG. I know they had been taken off a chaos warrior at some point, but I thought that RG had worn them in the past as well. Maybe they just sat in a display case in his hall of trophies.
To be fair
Rowboat seems to have gained a lot of weight doing nothing for 10k years
Yodhrin wrote: - people who don't fancy the idea are perfectly justified in being put out as it will negatively affect us(in either reduced opportunities to play, or less satisfying games where we have to put up with something we dislike).
Yeah, or you realize that this is a social game and that you need to consider the wants of the person across from you as well. Why should your desire to play without primarchs or flyers outweigh my desire to try them out and see?
Nothing stops you from asking for a game without them, or even asking if we can have one of each if your feeling equitable... Except for narcissism
If you want the ability to dictate all aspects of the game and opponents, you could always get two armies and play solitaire 40k
If you like the idea of Primarchs in 40K, on you go, enjoy, have fun, but don't widdle on my cheerios and tell me it's milk - people who don't fancy the idea are perfectly justified in being put out as it will negatively affect us(in either reduced opportunities to play, or less satisfying games where we have to put up with something we dislike).
I agree totally (not just with the quoted part but the whole post) and its the main reason I've sat out this edition and half of the last. The solution isn't to put out some half assed kiddy friendly version with little to no variety or depth for those want to play a more traditional 2nd-5th ed game instead of all apoc, all the time as rumored/speculated in the 8th ed thread. Sadly, I don't see GW doing anything more than lip service and spin to support that part of their current and ex player base.
Yodhrin wrote: - people who don't fancy the idea are perfectly justified in being put out as it will negatively affect us(in either reduced opportunities to play, or less satisfying games where we have to put up with something we dislike).
Yeah, or you realize that this is a social game and that you need to consider the wants of the person across from you as well. Why should your desire to play without primarchs or flyers outweigh my desire to try them out and see?
Nothing stops you from asking for a game without them, or even asking if we can have one of each if your feeling equitable... Except for narcissism
If you want the ability to dictate all aspects of the game and opponents, you could always get two armies and play solitaire 40k
He could easily say that you've played and enjoyed the game with out them, why dose haveing him NOW a break or make it for you to enjoy the game now?
consider how this is a change in a game people may dislike.
I dislike formations so all I can really do is choose not to use them. My enjoyment of 40k has slowly been going down having to put up with the broken formations ruining this game.
I liked the game before the change, and played many fun games with other players.
Well gullieman being back doesn't bother me I get the sentiment.
Space marines should be 7 ish feet tall. They are on scale with the average 6 foot guardsman. That's loss of a foot, the Knights are like 16 feet arnt they? But they shrunk to about 12.
The Knights? What Knights?
Space Marines are 7.
Standing next to Calgar, Guiliman looks ~16 and it's outright bananas, imo.
Yeah, or you realize that this is a social game and that you need to consider the wants of there person across from you as well. Why should your desire to play without primarchs or flyers outweigh my desire to try them out and see?
Nothing stops you from asking for a game without them, or even asking if we can have one of each if your feeling equitable... Except for narcissism
If you want the ability to dictate all aspects of the game and opponents, you could always get two armies and play solitaire 40k
Did it ever occur to you that people don't ask because they specifically do NOT want to dictate terms to other players and that too many TFG' s respond to the requested/concerns about the issue reflexively with insults just like you did? Look at your own post and instinctively resorting to name calling. "What, you don't want to play with your CAD infantry list against what for the past 10 years was an apoc only superheavy army that lost even the downside of having pay points for benefits in formations? You're just chicken and afraid to lose, right?" You just asked, insulted, and answered your own question.
Personally, I couldn't care less about the game balance aspect of this (OK, I probably could care a bit less, but not much.)
Rules come go, power builds come and go. It's not a big deal. But what has kept me interested in 40K all these years is the background, and this is the biggest background shakeup since the setting was solidified in the second edition. And it is not a shakeup I like, and I fear it is only the
beginning...
Unrelated observation about the model: whilst the overall style of the model is a matter of taste, the face of the model is just objectively bad. Compared to very detailed faces GW has recently produced where you can see wrinkles, scars and cheek muscles it is really flat. This is odd because it is in bigger scale than the heads they usually make, so there would be more room to define the features. This is also annoying because the scale of the model makes options for a headswap pretty damn limited.
I didn't notice them before, but I really don't care for the wings on RG. Not a deal breaker, but out of place. He still doesn't look nearly as bad as people are saying. I am hoping those weapons on him pack a punch.
wasn't there a rumour around the time that Magnus came out that a Traitor Primarch would turn Loyal and vice versa
what if Magnus becomes Loyal and Roboute turns Traitor?
what do you guys think?
Really hard to be redeemed once you are infused with the power of a Chaos god as their champion.
Wasn't the loyalty of the Alpha Marines sort of vague? They never really jumped in with the whole chaos worship and also didn't stop rumors of their treachery.
With such examples existing in the Imperial records, it is perhaps easy to see why the Alpha Legion sided with Horus when the Warmaster made his pact with Chaos; their martial pride and Alpharius' avoidance of all his brothers apart from Horus seemingly led to their downfall. However, another given reason is that, a scant two years before the Horus Heresy began, Alpharius Omegon was contacted by a Xenos organisation known as the Cabal, which presented the primarch with visions of the Heresy to come and other predictions of the future as well as knowledge about the nature of Chaos. They were shown that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos. Alpharius Omegon appeared to accede to this request.
If you don't wanna play with primarchs try asking for a 1200 point game? 1200 points would make it hard to push the char in there, Gulliman'll proably be 400-500 points)
I'm torn on account of the fact that I actually don't particularly like any of the Guilliman models. The Forgeworld one is static as hell.The new one looks like the naff plastic daemon prince.
The Scibor one looks like a walking wall.
The Kabuki one is busy trying to cuddle himself.
Guilliman has really been quite poorly served in terms of sculpts, I think.
So if RGs iron halo is Celestines.. as the story and time line advances, technically should celestine have a worse save now? and an errata to strip her of it? (who am i kidding this is GW)
Can't one make the claim that Celestine might even have authority over Roboute since she is more powerful than him, i presume...or at least on his level?
it says he worked with an Eldar sorcerer to bring back Roboute
Do also remember Cawl knew RG during the great crusade they note both of them go waaay back, so don't expect him to have the same mindset as other imperials especially when dealing with the possibility of fixing up his friend.
it says he worked with an Eldar sorcerer to bring back Roboute
Do also remember Cawl knew RG during the great crusade they note both of them go waaay back, so don't expect him to have the same mindset as other imperials especially when dealing with the possibility of fixing up his friend.
What i want to know is why would the Eldar help bring back a Primarch?
I don't get the details about Ynnead. Lexicanum isn't even very descriptive, and for some reason none of the Fracture of Beil-Tan advertisements have elaborated. I wonder if we'll even figure out how Ynnead works even after the book is released.
Pariah-Miniatures wrote:So if RGs iron halo is Celestines.. as the story and time line advances, technically should celestine have a worse save now? and an errata to strip her of it? (who am i kidding this is GW)
No. Eldrad was still a playable character during the brief time when his soul got stuck inside... what was it, a Blackstone Fortress?... and the only indication he wasn't utterly consumed by Slaanesh was a glow remaining in soulstones linked to him.
Further, she's Saint "I-Stabbed-Abbadon-In-the-Goddamn-Spine" Celestine. She can get another Iron Halo. For all we know, she's a sufficiently strong psyker/Greater Daemon of the Emperor that the Iron Halo was more akin to window dressing anyways.
LightKing wrote:Can't one make the claim that Celestine might even have authority over Roboute since she is more powerful than him, i presume...or at least on his level?
No. Just... I don't... What makes you think she's even in the same league as a Primarch, let alone MORE powerful than he is?
I can't wait for someone to put this Guilliman next to the FW Guilliman.
I did it yesterday virtually in mspaint. I matched the 60mm base sizes (assuming that's what both actually come on). If the GW one comes on an even larger base then all bets are off.
It's not so much the height but rather the ridiculous pose and popeye like exaggerated proportions of the GW model that make it look so ridiculously huge (and the excessive armor filigree that make it look gaudy). The attached pic looks small but is magnified in the spoiler below.
Guys, there's only one possible solution, Alpharius never died, Roboute did, this "new" guy is actually Alpharius and Omegon inside a suit! An xray would show one operates the legs, the other the torso.
It's why Abbadon didn't like what he saw!
The new catch phrase of the Alpha legion is I am Roboute!
To be fair, he is standing on 1/ 2 to 3/4 of an inch of rock and terrain.
Your standard power armor marine appears to makes it up to a little above his waist by my estimation, and I suspect a Terminator armored marine would be at the lower portion of his chest.
That said, I do think hes a bit oversized, but it's GW, and they're taking the scaling from the Horus Heresy/Forgeworld as well, at least a little bit. Look at the Forge World Vulcan, or Horus. They're oversized too, perhaps not to this degree, but a portion of that may also be the fact that Guilliman is wearing a new suit of super power armor which, likely, is helping keep him alive. We won't know that for sure until much later once Gathering Storm III releases, but I suspect that may be an element to the armor's size compared to his 30k armor.
Here's the foreword version without the Base. As you can see, he is about twice the height of a regular marine. Combined with the other picture it shows that the 40k and 30k version are of a very similar scale, but the new version has been bulked out a lot by the suit.
I am still not that keen on the sculpt, but any complaints about him being too big should be equally levied at the forgeworld primarchs.
Red__Thirst wrote: To be fair, he is standing on 1/ 2 to 3/4 of an inch of rock and terrain.
Your standard power armor marine appears to makes it up to a little above his waist by my estimation, and I suspect a Terminator armored marine would be at the lower portion of his chest.
That said, I do think hes a bit oversized, but it's GW, and they're taking the scaling from the Horus Heresy/Forgeworld as well, at least a little bit. Look at the Forge World Vulcan, or Horus. They're oversized too, perhaps not to this degree, but a portion of that may also be the fact that Guilliman is wearing a new suit of super power armor which, likely, is helping keep him alive. We won't know that for sure until much later once Gathering Storm III releases, but I suspect that may be an element to the armor's size compared to his 30k armor.
Just offering my thoughts on that. Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Horus is in Primarch Terminator armour, and Vulkan is known for being massive (he's the biggest Primarch aside from Magnus who could change his size - he's noted for being as big in power armour as Horus is in termie armour) so their sizes are at least in line with the other Primarchs.
Horus is in Primarch Terminator armour, and Vulkan is known for being massive (he's the biggest Primarch aside from Magnus who could change his size - he's noted for being as big in power armour as Horus is in termie armour) so their sizes are at least in line with the other Primarchs.
Precisely my point.
Guilliman is at least mostly in line with his FW version, the armor bulk not withstanding.
I'm expecting the (massive) power armor being worn to have some additional life support systems on-board to offset the grievous injury he suffered and was in stasis 'recovering' from for over 9000 years.
We'll see.
In the mean time, I'm going to be over here dejectedly kicking a can down the street, wondering what it would feel like to have my primarch resurrected from the dead.
LightKing wrote:Can't one make the claim that Celestine might even have authority over Roboute since she is more powerful than him, i presume...or at least on his level?
No. Just... I don't... What makes you think she's even in the same league as a Primarch, let alone MORE powerful than he is?
Judging by their previous posts both on this thread and others, their sole source of information is asking people questions on news and rumours threads, so it's likely either:
Thebiggesthat wrote: Well Sanguinius is coming this year, so just switch your attention to the HH, it's never been more affordable than it is now
Oh I have a Betrayal at Calth set I'm going to paint up as Blood Angels at some point, and I will be getting the Sanguinius miniature once he releases to paint up and play with down the road.
My main game at present is still 40k though, and I still hold out hope that Blood Angels will get a new mini or two in the form of a new Dante and/or Mephiston sculpt.
Weren't primarches supposed to be about as much bigger to marines as marines are to humans? Doesn't look like that...
Ah well. Not that it matters for me. Don't like model and can't incorporate stuff from this book(Either) without having to restart campaign from scratch again so I'll just ignore them. Wallet thanks.
I'm calling it now - It's just Guilliman's head on a robot body.....
Futurama style....
In all seriousness though you can see some pretty extensive bionics underneath the armour, unless it's a new type of power armour.
And Guilliman's wound was a throat wound so I reckon Cawl has just lopped his head off and stuck it on a body he built....
I really hope not because that would be really naff but would explain the slight bulking up of RG.
Otherwise it's possible that Yvraine has used her weird Eldar soul magic thingy to bring him back from the dead.... which would be even worse in my opinion....
The miniature featuring a dead Traitor in a newly sculpted Chaos Space Marine armour could be a major teaser for a new kit - or even a new range in that Dark Vengeance/RT baroque style
After this
we got these
It took a while but it happened. Was that kind of helmet at RG's feet ever used for a miniature before?
And it doesn't need many kits to update the old range
The miniature featuring a dead Traitor in a newly sculpted Chaos Space Marine armour could be a major teaser for a new kit - or even a new range in that Dark Vengeance/RT baroque style
Pariah-Miniatures wrote:So if RGs iron halo is Celestines.. as the story and time line advances, technically should celestine have a worse save now? and an errata to strip her of it? (who am i kidding this is GW)
No. Eldrad was still a playable character during the brief time when his soul got stuck inside... what was it, a Blackstone Fortress?... and the only indication he wasn't utterly consumed by Slaanesh was a glow remaining in soulstones linked to him.
Further, she's Saint "I-Stabbed-Abbadon-In-the-Goddamn-Spine" Celestine. She can get another Iron Halo. For all we know, she's a sufficiently strong psyker/Greater Daemon of the Emperor that the Iron Halo was more akin to window dressing anyways.
LightKing wrote:Can't one make the claim that Celestine might even have authority over Roboute since she is more powerful than him, i presume...or at least on his level?
No. Just... I don't... What makes you think she's even in the same league as a Primarch, let alone MORE powerful than he is?
well as she speaks with His voice and is (as you say) effectively a Greater Daemon of the Emperor - only better since killing her mortal form only banishers her for seconds not hundreds of years - yeah I think we can say she is more powerful than he is - any doubt check out the pic of her arrival at Cadia and the multiple Greater Deamons being slain by her aura of power
In all seriousness though you can see some pretty extensive bionics underneath the armour, unless it's a new type of power armour..
I believe that's just the sculptor taking advantage of the fact that sculpting in 54mm allows for a lot more detail than sculpting in 28ish-mm.
Armour that large with the same level of detail as a regular marine would look flat and lazy.
That being said, the extra layer of detail doesn't help it with the whole not-fitting-in-with-the-rest-of-the-Marine-range thing.
The fact that his proportions are completely different to regular Marines just finishes the job, there. He's twice the size of a Marine, but his head is barely larger than that of the Chaos Marine on his base.
Mr Morden wrote: well as she speaks with His voice and is (as you say) effectively a Greater Daemon of the Emperor - only better since killing her mortal form only banishers her for seconds not hundreds of years - yeah I think we can say she is more powerful than he is - any doubt check out the pic of her arrival at Cadia and the multiple Greater Deamons being slain by her aura of power
Give that she wasn't able to beat Ezekyle Abaddon, I think it important to remember that there's no such thing as a proper power scale in 40k and licentia poetica runs rampant.
.
) then we originally thought 
their pants?
