Did Dire Avengers really just go from 10 for $37.50 to 5 for $35?!?
Yup. Which is why I'm pissed! So now, even buying 2 boxes only gives you 8 regular guys and two exarchs...which is fething stupid! God forbid we get a full squad of troops out of the box...
not that it's any cheaper but the have the (option) to make an exarch, so you don't have to so you can do 5 guys or 4 guys and an exarch
Fezman wrote: I posted earlier that these prices feel like GW pushing their luck...if the Dire Avenger boxes of 5 sell well, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see other armies getting the same treatment.
I'm just glad I've already got plenty of Boyz; imagine if they got the same treatment...
DarthSpader wrote: wow...the dreadknight is 4" tall...the riptide goes to 6" now the eldar get a 9" tall robot??? that thing is almost as tall as my reveneant titan!!!!
i want a darkeldar 14" giant robot now. or where is the necron 46" monolith? comeon...
DarthSpader wrote: wow...the dreadknight is 4" tall...the riptide goes to 6" now the eldar get a 9" tall robot??? that thing is almost as tall as my reveneant titan!!!!
Obviously 6th edition Grey Knights codex will have 12" tall "Dreadlord.
Honestly, I'm considering if I'll even pickup a Dex or not. At those prices playing in tournaments again at a competitive level is too steep for my blood. Not playing in tournaments = why have a legit copy of the dex? Here's hoping for fast torrents for the dex
BTW: Fun fact: The F-117A Nighthawk Stealth Fighter was a bomber, not a fighter. The USAF didn't bother correcting people, and the plane is now retired.
One error in there, the USAF deliberately gave it the F-117A designation because F is for fighter, rather than giving it a B for bomber. The public had nothing to do with that. This was to attract their best pilot candidates to the program because most hot-shot pilots would rather fly fighters than bombers and they thought the "F" made it sound more appealing to prospective pilots, which turned out to be generally true.
Fezman wrote: I posted earlier that these prices feel like GW pushing their luck...if the Dire Avenger boxes of 5 sell well, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see other armies getting the same treatment.
I'm just glad I've already got plenty of Boyz; imagine if they got the same treatment...
Still, rather than arguing semantics, I will say this should be good news for anyone expecting Knight Titans in Imperial and Chaos variants with the upcoming Apoc redux. Just expect them to be $150 by July.
I kinda like the Wraithknight. It may not look quite like the other wraith constructs, but screams "1980s' sci-fantasy" all over the place.
But on the other side, I find it strange that such a miniature ever got greenlit for a codex release. Its sheer size breaks all established canons of scale for a "normal" battle of 40k and, assuming the rumors are true, despite its size and the fact that it probably uses enough sprues to build yourself a house out of them, it's priced WAY too high for a codex miniature. No miniature outside FW and Apocalypse releases should be priced above the hundred dollars mark. It's insane.
What is this for, then? To prove Dreamforge they can make absurdly big mechs too? To show PP that they can also make Colossals and price them accordingly?
But on the other side, I find it strange that such a miniature ever got greenlit for a codex release. Its sheer size breaks all established canons of scale for a "normal" battle of 40k and, assuming the rumors are true, despite its size and the fact that it probably uses enough sprues to build yourself a house out of them, it's priced WAY too high for a codex miniature. No miniature outside FW and Apocalypse releases should be priced above the hundred dollars mark. It's insane.
What is this for, then? To prove Dreamforge they can make absurdly big mechs too? To show PP that they can also make Colossals and price them accordingly?
I think it has to be marked up like the stompa as an Apoc only. If not then maybe the rumors of Thunderhawks in the next SM dex might be true. Maybe Stompas will appear in the ork dex if GW see fit to bring Apoc and 40k together?
Fezman wrote: I posted earlier that these prices feel like GW pushing their luck...if the Dire Avenger boxes of 5 sell well, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see other armies getting the same treatment.
I'm just glad I've already got plenty of Boyz; imagine if they got the same treatment...
Well nobody should be surprised. GW has done this for LotR. Funny thing, nobody cred so they didn't rise fuse. Now GW done it to 40K and Fantasy, people rise n issue now? Little bit too late for that now. GW thought we accepted the price hike, so now it's here to stay.
Fezman wrote: I posted earlier that these prices feel like GW pushing their luck...if the Dire Avenger boxes of 5 sell well, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see other armies getting the same treatment.
I'm just glad I've already got plenty of Boyz; imagine if they got the same treatment...
Well nobody should be surprised. GW has done this for LotR. Funny thing, nobody cred so they didn't rise fuse. Now GW done it to 40K and Fantasy, people rise n issue now? Little bit too late for that now. GW thought we accepted the price hike, so now it's here to stay.
No one cried about LotR because no one bought into it lol. At least everyone I know in this area looked at the prices and just laughed.
The Dire Avenger situation is a complete kick in the balls though, i have 30 but im tempted to get one more box before they are halved
This is the bigger problem I have with the release. $7 a plastic fig is a bad sign for future pricing. With recent releases, we may be looking at $5ea for Troop/Core choices and $7 for elite/special choices. Only thing that doesn't sit with me, don't recall there being any talk of the Dire Avenger boxes being recalled and the 10 man box is still available online. All the boxes are still out there, if they were reboxing, they would have recalled existing kits.
The Wraithknight price is bad, but is it not surprising. Figures from other companies have already demonstrated the tabletop miniature market will accept a $100 figure without question. Curious as to box size.
I really like the wraith knight and look forward to seeing the size of it compared to the other monsters but I would just feel dirty buying one and could certainly not ask for it as a gift.
'Hey you know those models I collect, yeah, could you buy me this new one thing, its £70, oh no its probably nothing special and could probably be removed in the first turn but......you know.'
Seems that my eldar go back into the display case... But before that, buy at least one Dire Avenger Squad before GW makes it go full slow.
If I convert the Wraithknight price from dollars to euros it makes it even pricier than a Baneblade or a Stompa.
Sayonara Eldar, until I find a place that actually sels it for a normal price.
As a casual 40k Player with a small footdar force, I couldnt be happier with these new kits. I hope they did a nice job with the wraithguard kit and options. That will make it a great release for me.
Like others have mentioned- i hope this means all these wraith units being released alongside an iyanden supplement is a precedent for eldar craft world releases. Biel-tan codex with more robust aspect options and aspects as troops? Yes please! Sam Hann supplement with updated bikes, vypers and new fast attack options? Yes please! Think about all the money we will throw at GW, and most of us will do it with smiles on our faces. It's diabolical.
The Grumpy Eldar wrote: Seems that my eldar go back into the display case... But before that, buy at least one Dire Avenger Squad before GW makes it go full slow.
If I convert the Wraithknight price from dollars to euros it makes it even pricier than a Baneblade or a Stompa.
Sayonara Eldar, until I find a place that actually sels it for a normal price.
That's a pretty extreme reaction as we don't know anything a out the rules? Surely the lack of new models in the release is almost good news(!) for existing players? You could be one codex purchase away from being the new Necrons.
Holy crap is it supposed to be the same size as a stompa?! I sure as hell know the new battle pics of the apocalypse book (rumoured of course) will be magnificent, still, I am salty about the price.
Still, rather than arguing semantics, I will say this should be good news for anyone expecting Knight Titans in Imperial and Chaos variants with the upcoming Apoc redux. Just expect them to be $150 by July.
Except that the Lexicanum entries are wrong. The actual Epic entries on Knights are very clear that Knights aren't Titans, yet the Lexicanum entry decides to follow the colloquial belief that has arisen that they are a Titan class.
In addition, that's a relatively recent change. The Lexicanum entry also used to make absolutely no mention to them being Titans(it also used to be about a single paragraph long).
Tpiddy wrote: As a casual 40k Player with a small foot guard force, I couldnt be happier with these new kits. I hope they did a nice job with the wraithguard kit and options. That will make it a great release for me.
Like others have mentioned- i hope this means all these wraith units being released alongside an iyanden supplement is a precedent for eldar craft world releases. Biel-tan codex with more robust aspect options and aspects as troops? Yes please! Sam Hann supplement with updated bikes, vypers and new fast attack options? Yes please! Think about all the money we will throw at GW, and most of us will do it with smiles on our faces. It's diabolical.
I truly hope you are joking. The mini 'dex is the same price as the Codex. As for smiles on our faces while throwing cash at GW? I have to ask: What have you been smoking? Sure we all bitch about the prices and keep buying 40K stuff. But I don't know anyone that is happy about the money they spend on it. GW continues to push more and more people out of the hobby with pricing shenannigans like this.
That's a pretty extreme reaction as we don't know anything a out the rules? Surely the lack of new models in the release is almost good news(!) for existing players? You could be one codex purchase away from being the new Necrons.
It might be in your eyes. I mean, do you expect me to buy the new Dire Avengers when the old box had 5 more in it for the same price. Some things might be good like the Wraithguard (If they stay the same price), but pricing the troop choise like that... I'd actually see it scare new players away.
ironicsilence wrote: so the wraith knight stands at 9 inches tall....a warhound titan is only 10ish inches. Suddenly massive war engines arent so massive anymore
The Eldar took Pacific Rim's advice, go big or go extinct.
ironicsilence wrote: so the wraith knight stands at 9 inches tall....a warhound titan is only 10ish inches. Suddenly massive war engines arent so massive anymore
At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if Baneblades were in the next Codex: Imperial Guard.
Well my official prediction would be wraithguard T5, Wraithlord T8 and Wraithknight T6, but better save shenanigans will make the wraithknight more survivable.
ironicsilence wrote: so the wraith knight stands at 9 inches tall....a warhound titan is only 10ish inches. Suddenly massive war engines arent so massive anymore
At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if Baneblades were in the next Codex: Imperial Guard.
i wonder if we will see a "size creep" start to appear in forge world? I imagine making all new titans would be poor business sense but if a new titan class got released I wonder how big it would need to be to some what be to scale
That's a pretty extreme reaction as we don't know anything a out the rules? Surely the lack of new models in the release is almost good news(!) for existing players? You could be one codex purchase away from being the new Necrons.
It might be in your eyes. I mean, do you expect me to buy the new Dire Avengers when the old box had 5 more in it for the same price. Some things might be good like the Wraithguard (If they stay the same price), but pricing the troop choise like that... I'd actually see it scare new players away.
What, as an existing player you don't have any Dire Avengers already? It's a rebox, not a new sculpt. Ok, I'll take your point about new players, but why does that make the sky fall on you?
@Nocturnus: Well I was exaggerating.. But I'll be happy to pay them for new kits that look cool and that i enjoy painting. That is how they make money isn't it? By selling miniatures and rules for their game? This is how this thing got started no? I will not defend their pricing hikes on existing minis but I am a huge fan of the potential wider range of minis.
The fact that they could specialize eldar like marines has its advantages. Not a wraith guy? Like bikes? Ok- spend ur money on those kits and get sweet new rules that make ur army different from other craft worlds. In the long run it will mean more options for everyone both rules wise and for minis. Why is that so awful? Just because rules aren't tangible doesnt mean they have no value.
ironicsilence wrote: so the wraith knight stands at 9 inches tall....a warhound titan is only 10ish inches. Suddenly massive war engines arent so massive anymore
Height-wise, maybe. But in bulk, the Warhound and Stompa are both still far larger.
As for size, if the Wraithknight is a walker with 4-5 hull points, the Warhound is still 9 Hull point equivalent and 2 void shields, and the Stompa is 12 Hull points.
One important question is what exactly the "Windrider Jetbikes" are. Hopefully, this is a new Jetbike kit and not just a rename and repackage, as the current Jetbikes are some of the worst models in the Eldar range. Of course, even if it is a repackage that will be helpful as it'll bring prices down-- but I don't think many people will be very happy with that given the big price hike on Dire Avengers!
Kingsley wrote: One important question is what exactly the "Windrider Jetbikes" are. Hopefully, this is a new Jetbike kit and not just a rename and repackage, as the current Jetbikes are some of the worst models in the Eldar range. Of course, even if it is a repackage that will be helpful as it'll bring prices down-- but I don't think many people will be very happy with that given the big price hike on Dire Avengers!
It probably is just a rename. The big Apoc bundle was the Windrider Host, so a Windrider Squadron makes sense, and sounds more poetic than Guardian Jetbike Squadron.
Kingsley wrote: One important question is what exactly the "Windrider Jetbikes" are. Hopefully, this is a new Jetbike kit and not just a rename and repackage, as the current Jetbikes are some of the worst models in the Eldar range. Of course, even if it is a repackage that will be helpful as it'll bring prices down-- but I don't think many people will be very happy with that given the big price hike on Dire Avengers!
It's a rename and a repackage. Par for the course has been 3 new plastic boxes and one plastic blister since Chaos Space Marines, and those three new plastic kits are taken up this time with the Wraithknight, airplane, and Wraithguard. It's just three in one box, like the Crisis Suits.
the dire avenger 5 in a box thing has me little worried especialy if its the same old crap sculpts but I do have a few boxes of them thankfuly.
as for the knight dont think its super heavy or will be even classed as such so will be used in normal games. I have been hoping for a lot more for eldar like ditching those utter sh*t finecast aspects same horrible sculpts from the early 90's
eldar needed alot of replacement models and got none apart from wraith gaurd which still not seen any pics for which is just a damn shame. as much as I like the new units so far its sad that they didnt show bit more love to a good old race wonder what crap they will give us for the great green tide
Kroothawk wrote: BTW: Fun fact: Wraithfighter is a bomber, not a fighter. But GW only realised that after the 5 creative seconds for naming this unit.
BTW: Fun fact: The F-117A Nighthawk Stealth Fighter was a bomber, not a fighter. The USAF didn't bother correcting people, and the plane is now retired.
I should have known that it'd have already been said.
Kingsley wrote: One important question is what exactly the "Windrider Jetbikes" are. Hopefully, this is a new Jetbike kit and not just a rename and repackage, as the current Jetbikes are some of the worst models in the Eldar range. Of course, even if it is a repackage that will be helpful as it'll bring prices down-- but I don't think many people will be very happy with that given the big price hike on Dire Avengers!
It's a rename and a repackage. Par for the course has been 3 new plastic boxes and one plastic blister since Chaos Space Marines, and those three new plastic kits are taken up this time with the Wraithknight, airplane, and Wraithguard. It's just three in one box, like the Crisis Suits.
Darn. The jetbike test sculpt that's been around for years is much better than the existing model, and I figured that with Farsight coming out more or less exactly like his old test sculpt, the jetbikes might do the same. Overall I'm a little underwhelmed by this release. I like the focus on Wraith stuff and the Wraithknight in particular strikes me as a gorgeous model, but I was really hoping for updates to jetbikes and Aspect Warriors, and the changes are much less comprehensive than with the (basically perfect) Dark Eldar redo. Sure, Eldar had less that needed to be updated, but I can't help but feel this release is missing a kit or two.
I love Eldar, but after seeing what they are doing with Dire Avengers and the continued propensity for awkward models that do not fit the design aesthetic I am both baffled and aghast. I really hope they never redo the Dark Eldar codex. Suddenly waiting another ten years looks completely viable.
It seems like if you're considering running Eldar, picking up a few Dire Avenger boxes now would be a pretty wise move. Worst case scenario, you can probably eBay them after the new Codex release for more than their current value.
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but why does the Eldar Wraithknight have a Yu-Gi-Oh duel disc on its arm? Are we serious with these models right now?
Oaka wrote: Something you will never see at a tournament - a man with three Wraithknights in his army wearing a wedding band.
Well, I will EVENTUALLY have them, although each will take a lot of converting work, since there are far too many of the blister/knobby bits on them and those need to be reduced. And I have a wedding band. But, I don't play tournaments, so your prediction will stand for now.
Nior Eternal wrote: I'm not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but why does the Eldar Wraithknight have a Yu-Gi-Oh duel disc on its arm? Are we serious with these models right now?
That was sculpted in Trap mode. The next time this question enters the field, it is triggered activating some non-specific ancient curse. Cuuuuuurrrrssseee.
There's actually a pretty nice photoshop of it, something like 14 pages ago. He's rocking the Yugi-fro as well.
Nior Eternal wrote: I'm not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but why does the Eldar Wraithknight have a Yu-Gi-Oh duel disc on its arm? Are we serious with these models right now?
Nior Eternal wrote: I'm not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but why does the Eldar Wraithknight have a Yu-Gi-Oh duel disc on its arm? Are we serious with these models right now?
Several.
Times.
Well my apologies then, I couldn't find it with search and I didn't want to manually look for it
So, no new plastic artillery? Is that going to be just phased out? The models don't exist anymore, do they?
Can't believe they're not giving a plastic seer counsel, plastic aspects OR plastic jetbikes. I thought at least 1 would have been a sure bet. Boo-urns I say.
So the Eldar sit there with models from 92 eh?
NO new jetbikes despite a seriously sexy prototype sitting there
Doubling the cost of DA. = Not cool... not cool at all.
The Titan thing is ok but £70 indicates a worrying trend.
The wraithguard could be cool. Hoping for dynamic kit with loads of options but as im unlikely to play Eldar (or start any new GW armies) it matters little i guess.
Also a 'Supplement' shouldnt really cost the same as the thing it is 'supplementing'
So, we are back to the ridiculous pricing AND the shaky cam of concept art?
Also, Wraithknights are not unreasonably priced, for the size i tthink it is ok, Granted it is not GREAT, but for how big it is its ok.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, we are back to the ridiculous pricing AND the shaky cam of concept art?
Also, Wraithknights are not unreasonably priced, for the size i tthink it is ok, Granted it is not GREAT, but for how big it is its ok.
I reckon there's no more material in it than the Riptide, just the long thin limbs make it look a lot bigger. So, no, not even close to great.
DiabolicAl wrote: I think the Wraithknight's price is probably fair for the size of the model, i just think it's unnecessary.
Monster40k here we come.... the line between Apocalypse and 40k dwindles still further
Well, Apocalypse is supposed to be "redone".
What if the redo is to simply make it work with normal 40k?
Fix D-Weapons, touch up Gargantuan Creatures and Superheavy rules to bring them in line with current MC and Vehicle rules, fix stratagems (maybe give them a point cost?), Make a formation a bonus set of rules if you buy X particular models/units rather than a separate entry. Add a superheavy slot to the FOC like Fortifications. Every 2000 points add a FOC. Done.
That's a pretty extreme reaction as we don't know anything a out the rules? Surely the lack of new models in the release is almost good news(!) for existing players? You could be one codex purchase away from being the new Necrons.
It might be in your eyes. I mean, do you expect me to buy the new Dire Avengers when the old box had 5 more in it for the same price. Some things might be good like the Wraithguard (If they stay the same price), but pricing the troop choise like that... I'd actually see it scare new players away.
What, as an existing player you don't have any Dire Avengers already? It's a rebox, not a new sculpt. Ok, I'll take your point about new players, but why does that make the sky fall on you?
Been playing eldar since '95, No I don't have any DA, they've never been necessary, and still aren't.
That's a pretty extreme reaction as we don't know anything a out the rules? Surely the lack of new models in the release is almost good news(!) for existing players? You could be one codex purchase away from being the new Necrons.
It might be in your eyes. I mean, do you expect me to buy the new Dire Avengers when the old box had 5 more in it for the same price. Some things might be good like the Wraithguard (If they stay the same price), but pricing the troop choise like that... I'd actually see it scare new players away.
What, as an existing player you don't have any Dire Avengers already? It's a rebox, not a new sculpt. Ok, I'll take your point about new players, but why does that make the sky fall on you?
Been playing eldar since '95, No I don't have any DA, they've never been necessary, and still aren't.
I love how no one is talking about how we are getting an assassin....am i the only one psyched about that? Hopefully it can go toe to toe with the Vindicare Assassin!
Wilytank wrote: Just watch it become an Apocalypse only super heavy.
As a matter of fact, I'm calling it right now: Apoc Super Heavy. You people are saying it's the same price as an Ork Stompa and if it's 9", it's only like two inches shorter than the Stompa.
Reposted from 3++, which is reposted from heresey online:
There is also an upgrade pack in Finecast to make an Autarch on a jetbike.
As far as the actual Codex goes:
-You can make Run moves in addition to shooting Shuriken weapons. Interesting particularly if this can be made both before or after shooting.
-Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6– similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule. So they still can't damage tanks. Yay >.<.
-The Wraithknight starts at about 250 points and caps around 350, and towers over even the Tau Riptide. It's 9” tall. The Wraithknight has the ability for its weapons to become twin-linked if it hits with a scatter laser it comes equipped with, even against airborne targets. It can shoot S9 and 10 small blasts, and has a total of four weapons on it– you have a choice of several, including a huge wraithblade and a lance weapon. It had better be T8/W5/2+ for that starting cost…
- Wraithguard are cheaper both points-wise and financially speaking, and are now S5 and T6, and have the option to be equipped with Wraithblades as per the current Codex's in place of their guns, making them a dangerous close combat unit. What do you mean now S5/T6? Wraithblades aren't going to make them a dangerous CC unit without an A buff. If Wraithguns aren't getting a range increase these guys are still likely to be blah.
- Including a Spiritseer as a HQ choice allows you to bring Wraithguard as Troops. Cheaper at least to get scoring tuff nuts.
- Expect Guardians to supplant Dire Avengers as the staple Troops choice– they're very points efficient and with the buff to shuriken weapons, they should expect to be in a lot of competitive armies. How? Unless they are similar to Guardsmen in points and Shuriken got a buff in terms of range, they're still an ass unit. If they are around 5/6 points and get 18″ guns, have good Warlock buffing powers, then perhaps we have something but that also depends on what Dire Avengers get. Are they getting 24″ guns and cheaper as well? Etc. Grand sweeping statements by sales reps are dumb even if they turn out to be true.
-The Fire Prism has been nerfed a bit– basically, they want to drive people back towards Aspect Warrior and Wraith-heavy armies, rather than the mechanized Eldar army literally everyone and their brother played with the exact same list. Can't really say to what extent, but the purchasing advice was to “Not load up on them.” Yay all those vehicles we have are useless and they aren't releasing new Aspects.
-The Avatar is “Definitely better.” I want my 80 pt 3rd ed Avatar back.
-The Iyanden supplement is not a splash release, and will be normally available. Iyanden is strictly a fluff book, and contains no game rules. The rules to play a themed Iyanden army are found completely in Codex: Eldar. This is a move to appease people who want more fluff in books as well as people who would rather just have more game content with the fluff optional. This is an experiment in seeing how this works– if it does well, expect Games Workshop to continue with the release of “chapter-specific” fluff supplements for their Codex releases. Good. I can ignore this now.
Given the pictures of the White Dwarf page explicitly say the Iyanden supplement contains new rules (although not to what extent) that last comment is pretty blatantly wrong unless they're defining "game rules" pretty specifically.
Chrysis wrote: Given the pictures of the White Dwarf page explicitly say the Iyanden supplement contains new rules (although not to what extent) that last comment is pretty blatantly wrong unless they're defining "game rules" pretty specifically.
They could both be right if for example it has no units or army list but does have some special scenario.
Like I said, the rumour monger would have to be defining "Game Rules" pretty specifically for the rumour to be true. I can't think of any rules the supplement could contain that wouldn't be "Game Rules."
Wilytank wrote: Just watch it become an Apocalypse only super heavy.
As a matter of fact, I'm calling it right now: Apoc Super Heavy. You people are saying it's the same price as an Ork Stompa and if it's 9", it's only like two inches shorter than the Stompa.
Gwyidion wrote: Reposted from 3++, which is reposted from heresey online:
There is also an upgrade pack in Finecast to make an Autarch on a jetbike.
As far as the actual Codex goes:
-You can make Run moves in addition to shooting Shuriken weapons. Interesting particularly if this can be made both before or after shooting.
-Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6– similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule. So they still can't damage tanks. Yay >.<.
-The Wraithknight starts at about 250 points and caps around 350, and towers over even the Tau Riptide. It's 9” tall. The Wraithknight has the ability for its weapons to become twin-linked if it hits with a scatter laser it comes equipped with, even against airborne targets. It can shoot S9 and 10 small blasts, and has a total of four weapons on it– you have a choice of several, including a huge wraithblade and a lance weapon. It had better be T8/W5/2+ for that starting cost…
- Wraithguard are cheaper both points-wise and financially speaking, and are now S5 and T6, and have the option to be equipped with Wraithblades as per the current Codex's in place of their guns, making them a dangerous close combat unit. What do you mean now S5/T6? Wraithblades aren't going to make them a dangerous CC unit without an A buff. If Wraithguns aren't getting a range increase these guys are still likely to be blah.
- Including a Spiritseer as a HQ choice allows you to bring Wraithguard as Troops. Cheaper at least to get scoring tuff nuts.
- Expect Guardians to supplant Dire Avengers as the staple Troops choice– they're very points efficient and with the buff to shuriken weapons, they should expect to be in a lot of competitive armies. How? Unless they are similar to Guardsmen in points and Shuriken got a buff in terms of range, they're still an ass unit. If they are around 5/6 points and get 18″ guns, have good Warlock buffing powers, then perhaps we have something but that also depends on what Dire Avengers get. Are they getting 24″ guns and cheaper as well? Etc. Grand sweeping statements by sales reps are dumb even if they turn out to be true.
-The Fire Prism has been nerfed a bit– basically, they want to drive people back towards Aspect Warrior and Wraith-heavy armies, rather than the mechanized Eldar army literally everyone and their brother played with the exact same list. Can't really say to what extent, but the purchasing advice was to “Not load up on them.” Yay all those vehicles we have are useless and they aren't releasing new Aspects.
-The Avatar is “Definitely better.” I want my 80 pt 3rd ed Avatar back.
-The Iyanden supplement is not a splash release, and will be normally available. Iyanden is strictly a fluff book, and contains no game rules. The rules to play a themed Iyanden army are found completely in Codex: Eldar. This is a move to appease people who want more fluff in books as well as people who would rather just have more game content with the fluff optional. This is an experiment in seeing how this works– if it does well, expect Games Workshop to continue with the release of “chapter-specific” fluff supplements for their Codex releases. Good. I can ignore this now.
So we can run, shoot, ignore armor saves with shuriken catapults on a to wound roll of 6, with our super cheap guardians?...
Plastic wraithguard, couple of new big kits and everything else made more expensive.
No new jetbikes/ vyper/ plastic aspect warriors, no new warlocks or phoenix lords?
What a pathetic release. I suppose this is it for the next 8 years now, GW hates releasing stuff for xenos so we probably won't see anything else until 8th edition.
does anyone remember when GW used to be a MINIATURES company?? with the trend of larger and larger models all over the place... this is turning into GW "Fineroll Actionfigurines"tm ... pretty soon every model on the table is going to be some kind of 12" tall super mech titan warrior thing.
im not complaining... but really, if GW wanted to get into the "giant robot" aspect of 40k, why not just make plastic titans, or at least the scout/knight" classes, and develop a game based on only those models and perhaps a small contigent of infantry or tank support....
i have just been informed that GW existed before the aforementioned, and that such images, right and property are part of the almighty god king GW, and thus will be assimilated. lawyers are cutrrently in route to inform mech warrior **tm**gw**tm** that they will now belong to the grimdark.
GTKA666 wrote: Don't get too excited. We don't know their range and if this is even accurate.
I know, but after the pricing of the new MC and DA box count drop, I'm scraping the barrel for something positive. And since I play against nothing but tau, necrons, and grey knights this is my bit of silver lining for the day.
I am really psyched for this release. Eldar really need a new codex. I understand the issue around the DA cost but it looks like WG went down in price and if there is both cc and regular options thats a bonus. I am really interested in seeing the wraithseer and hope supplies are not too limited for those. Overall I am fine with the posted prices using current prices as a benchmark. The books are well worth the money and the wraithknight is on par with what you would normally get for that price in my mind. I really like that there is a specific Eldar focus with psychic powers and their own set of cards which is in line with the fluff. Also Eldar are supposed to have air superiority as a race so a new aspect that is focused on aircraft is pretty cool. My biggest disapointement would likely be the jetbikes. I havent bought any of the older ones in anticipation of this release. If they are the same old same old not sure what I will do. Overall still very excited for this release.
DarthSpader wrote: im not complaining... but really, if GW wanted to get into the "giant robot" aspect of 40k, why not just make plastic titans, or at least the scout/knight" classes, and develop a game based on only those models and perhaps a small contigent of infantry or tank support....
oh wait.
mech warrior ALREADY DID THI ----
*****inquisitorial inturupt*****
Pity Mechwarrior only existed as a collectable game. I would have seen something like Warmachine working well for them. Well without that jacked up plot anyway. I always thought playing with Titans on a 40K table was like Mechwarrior...if the mechs weren't allowed to move due to terrain being everywhere, more commonly refereed to as "not that fun".
Either way I'm sort of hopeful this "knight" is at least durable. I swear I have never once gotten to roll an armor save on a Wraithlord, if something wounded them it always seemed to be AP2 anyway.
Im actually grateful that this is a lame release. A $50 codex and im good to go. Between Robotech and the Martian Front kickstarter Im basically broke.
I'm just pissed by the pricing on some of this crap, and that the aspect warriors aren't redone or touched up. I like the idea of striking scorpions and howling banshees. Granted with the way vehicles are and everything, something needs to be done so that they can survive long enough to get into a fight. I wish they would make them plastic kits.
MY biggest gripe is nothing new for Harlequins! That is the unit that originally made me fall in love with the Eldar codex. Granted the models look great now, but make them plastic, and give me the option to put harlequin's kisses modeled on them, and reduce their price. 22 fething points for a harlequin, without the awesome veil of tears pisses me off. Yeah if I have them in cover I can get a 2+ cover save, which no cover negating large blast template ever cared about. I liked to roll the dice and take my chances of you not being able to target me at all, unless you got in striking distance. I loved using them as a counter attack unit. Throw a bait unit in front and let you come to me to get eaten by my fortuned harlequins. So what if they only had a 5++ save. I struck first I was hitting you with strength 4 hits, and I rended, and got to re-roll my wounds. Now they are still okay, but need some point reduction, and I think the death jester needs a kiss, or power blades or something like he had before.
All the new stuff is cool, but a lot of the old stuff feels like it is being forgotten or left behind, and a lot of that is the reason I liked Eldar in the first place. I don't need wing zero from gundam wing to lead my army with Hero making some silent leaderisk crappy one liners, about duty to the colonies. Give me some cheaper models that already exist, and make me some plastic kits, and update the 90's models to match the badass models of today.
I'm glad I jumped ship to Dark Eldar. Now there are some gorgeous models. They just need to update Drahzar with a Finecast or hopefully/maybe a plastic model that matches how awesome he looks in the codex, and we'll be in business.
I might be missing something by saying this, but I notice a lot of people are worried about the jetbikes, and what they are going to look like, and whether they will be the old ones or not. Did no one pay attention a few years ago when Dark Eldar came out, and the new jetbikes for DE came out, and they said that they made a template bike for the ELDAR as a race. For DE they threw more spikes and blades on it to make it look sinister, but that they have the Eldar jetbike already done, and they simply never released it, because thye were waiting for the new codex to release. Well that is what we will be getting. The new Eldar jet bikes are going to look very similar to the DE jetbikes. Whats the problem?
CrimsonKing wrote: I might be missing something by saying this, but I notice a lot of people are worried about the jetbikes, and what they are going to look like, and whether they will be the old ones or not. Did no one pay attention a few years ago when Dark Eldar came out, and the new jetbikes for DE came out, and they said that they made a template bike for the ELDAR as a race. For DE they threw more spikes and blades on it to make it look sinister, but that they have the Eldar jetbike already done, and they simply never released it, because thye were waiting for the new codex to release. Well that is what we will be getting. The new Eldar jet bikes are going to look very similar to the DE jetbikes. Whats the problem?
This line of reasoning would require intuition and the ability to read between the lines. A rare quality in the internet age. It is totally reasonable and foreseeable that the new 3 in 1 box would have the new sculpt of bike; especially with the new name change.
For gods sake! Make 'em immune to poison. They're walking constructs ('cept for the WraithKnight?)
Walking constructs made from a living material
o.O
What's living about it? I thought it's just a walking wraithbone... *shrugs* I wouldn't mind the Lords being T6... just make 'em immune to poison.
^^^^ We know it ain't going to happen... just wishlisting here...
Wow finally caught up with the 10 pages since this morning. I know it hasn't been mentioned for a while, but I wanted to say before that anyone who claims GW stuff looks like Happy Meal toys but likes the old Knights and Armourcast stuff is a massive hypocrite.
I've gotta say, these prices are entirely out of hand. I can't really see myself buying anything but the codex at release, and even that'll be from discount internet sellers. I honestly can't understand how this has sustained itself up until now. Something's gotta give here.
For gods sake! Make 'em immune to poison. They're walking constructs ('cept for the WraithKnight?)
Walking constructs made from a living material
o.O
What's living about it? I thought it's just a walking wraithbone... *shrugs* I wouldn't mind the Lords being T6... just make 'em immune to poison.
^^^^ We know it ain't going to happen... just wishlisting here...
It may since have been retconned but im sure Wraithbone was alive. Tended to by spirit singers and grown by the Eldar for use in construction. Could be wrong though.
I really hope that the shuriken armor ignore is real. I just played against my necron buddy and eldar could use a little more bite. I'm dissapointed with some of the pricing and packaging strategies listed in the thread. Some of it is not terrible. As fun as the Wraithknight sounds $115 is a lot of money to spend on one plastic toy.
All the rambling and gripping aside eldar is what I play so I'm excited to re-learn my favorite 40k race and hopefully be able to afford some of the new hotness.
as far as DE go, the poison weapons are in the fluff, "calibrated" to the foe they are facing. so for eldar wraith units, instead of poison it would be like some kind of moleculer acid or something. or it might contain an EMP charge to harm necrons etc.
the DE are generally pretty good at scouting and preparing for the target they are attacking, either that or the splinter weapons simply have a "mode selector"
this is even somewhat mentioned in the BRB. because otherwise you have one army thats just....impossible to beat with another.
considering that DE weapons are either splinter weapons (warriors, venoms, and just about every infantry unit without a special weapon) or lances... to make eldar units immune to poisoin - it would mean literally 80% of the DE codex would be USELESS against that army, and pretty much auto loose. i imagine that would be not a fun game for the DE side... tons for the eldar...the first 2 times. then the novelty wears off, and its like... why bother? unless your WAAC....or "THAT .... GUY"
edit: and if eldar get immune to poison, (wich is not even a rule btw) then tyranids would argue they should be immune, because they are ever adapting... then there is the necrons... everything is just a dead metal robot... what about orks? they are essentially a fungas. poison shouldnt even phase them. space marines? advanced bio upgrades make them shrug off all but the most potent poison, and even then they hardley care about it.... so DE would only be really effective against IG, sisters, and tau. wich would have THOSE factions wondering why they got the short stick...
Tpiddy wrote: Like others have mentioned- i hope this means all these wraith units being released alongside an iyanden supplement is a precedent for eldar craft world releases. Biel-tan codex with more robust aspect options and aspects as troops? Yes please! Sam Hann supplement with updated bikes, vypers and new fast attack options? Yes please! Think about all the money we will throw at GW, and most of us will do it with smiles on our faces. It's diabolical.
I was going to say this sounds like a glimmer or hope, that the supplement would have enough rules to stand alone, and the models that minidex focuses on would come out in a later release alongside it. So new Aspect models would appear along with a BielTan dex that was self-contained. What a beautiful thing that would be.
Then I read further on and saw people saying the Iyanden book is just fluff. Very nice, I am a huge fan of fluff, but quite disappointing... I suppose they could release a fluff book for the other Craftworld's later, and time models to go with them, but I'm surprised to see no rules there...
CrimsonKing wrote: I might be missing something by saying this, but I notice a lot of people are worried about the jetbikes, and what they are going to look like, and whether they will be the old ones or not. Did no one pay attention a few years ago when Dark Eldar came out, and the new jetbikes for DE came out, and they said that they made a template bike for the ELDAR as a race. For DE they threw more spikes and blades on it to make it look sinister, but that they have the Eldar jetbike already done, and they simply never released it, because thye were waiting for the new codex to release. Well that is what we will be getting. The new Eldar jet bikes are going to look very similar to the DE jetbikes. Whats the problem?
Yes, everyone was paying attention to the early pic of the updated jetbike. That's why they're complaining now, since the 'word on the street' is that GW are sticking with the current jetbikes for now instead.
One possibility is that the new 5 Dire Avengers for $35 is to bring them in line with the eventual new price structure for the new plastic other Aspect Warriors which will be sold the same way.
For example, when Savage Orcs were released at 10 models for $29, the existing Orc Boyz were changed from 19 models for $35 to the same 10 models for $29 to match the Savage Orcs. It appears GW may be doing a similar adjustment of the one existing plastic Aspect Warrior set to match the new ones as they are eventually released.
All the elite type troopers the past couple years have been 5 models for $33 US (e.g., Grey Knights Power Armor, Necron Lychguard) so it's not surprising to see 5 for $35. Perhaps that's what the 5 for $33 sets are going to in June.
I love the Eldar. They were my first army when I was a kid and they were my go-to army for years. I have always loved their lore, their psychic prowess and the art of war they brought to the battlefield through speed and trickery. I love everything about the army and I have stuck with them (when I still played 40K) through the many iterations.
But now, looking upon the Wraithknight, I am disappoint. I am sure there are people that love it and people that hate it - well I am one of those people that looks at it and grimaces at how forced it looks. It is a clear reflection of Games Workshop's business-to-codex mentality now. I mean, the Riptide seems to sort of a have a place in the Tau army, but the Wraithknight feels so phony. It all started with the Dreadknight - actually, I take that back - it all started with the Trygon and then GW decided that every army needed a sub-titan sized model. Ridiculous.
puma713 wrote: I love the Eldar. They were my first army when I was a kid and they were my go-to army for years. I have always loved their lore, their psychic prowess and the art of war they brought to the battlefield through speed and trickery. I love everything about the army and I have stuck with them (when I still played 40K) through the many iterations.
But now, looking upon the Wraithknight, I am disappoint. I am sure there are people that love it and people that hate it - well I am one of those people that looks at it and grimaces at how forced it looks. It is a clear reflection of Games Workshop's business-to-codex mentality now. I mean, the Riptide seems to sort of a have a place in the Tau army, but the Wraithknight feels so phony. It all started with the Dreadknight - actually, I take that back - it all started with the Trygon and then GW decided that every army needed a sub-titan sized model. Ridiculous.
No seriously you didn't need to tell us you played eldar as a kid, it shows from your whining...
Seriously wtf is with the wraith knight hate??? It looks like a big wraithlord.. How does that not "have a place" in eldar? And if you really wanted to go back to where all this came from.. (Since you think trygon is where it started you must still be a teenager) it started with Dun Dun Duuuun the wraithlord.. A big tough monstrous creature that dwarfed the dreadnaughts.. Hmm a dozen ironic statements I can make here... Which to choose..
*sigh* Picked up two discounted boxes of the current 10 Dire Avengers, because I know that eventually I'll want them, and I don't much feel like paying the rumored prices.
puma713 wrote: I love the Eldar. They were my first army when I was a kid and they were my go-to army for years. I have always loved their lore, their psychic prowess and the art of war they brought to the battlefield through speed and trickery. I love everything about the army and I have stuck with them (when I still played 40K) through the many iterations.
But now, looking upon the Wraithknight, I am disappoint. I am sure there are people that love it and people that hate it - well I am one of those people that looks at it and grimaces at how forced it looks. It is a clear reflection of Games Workshop's business-to-codex mentality now. I mean, the Riptide seems to sort of a have a place in the Tau army, but the Wraithknight feels so phony. It all started with the Dreadknight - actually, I take that back - it all started with the Trygon and then GW decided that every army needed a sub-titan sized model. Ridiculous.
No seriously you didn't need to tell us you played eldar as a kid, it shows from your whining...
Seriously wtf is with the wraith knight hate??? It looks like a big wraithlord.. How does that not "have a place" in eldar? And if you really wanted to go back to where all this came from.. (Since you think trygon is where it started you must still be a teenager) it started with Dun Dun Duuuun the wraithlord.. A big tough monstrous creature that dwarfed the dreadnaughts.. Hmm a dozen ironic statements I can make here... Which to choose..
Personally, the biggest beef I've got with the look of the WK is the overabundance of blisters all over the thing. That DOES stand out when looking at the line from WG all the way through the Phantom. Also not particularly thrilled with the "muscle" lines on the upper arms.
All fixable, to an extent, but they're going to be a pain in the butt to do.
I dunno, from the picture I've seen I would have said it looks like a super huge Guardian more. The head seems to be smaller, and the Wraithlord seems to emphasize very skinny arms and legs with little body at all.
puma713 wrote: I love the Eldar. They were my first army when I was a kid and they were my go-to army for years. I have always loved their lore, their psychic prowess and the art of war they brought to the battlefield through speed and trickery. I love everything about the army and I have stuck with them (when I still played 40K) through the many iterations.
But now, looking upon the Wraithknight, I am disappoint. I am sure there are people that love it and people that hate it - well I am one of those people that looks at it and grimaces at how forced it looks. It is a clear reflection of Games Workshop's business-to-codex mentality now. I mean, the Riptide seems to sort of a have a place in the Tau army, but the Wraithknight feels so phony. It all started with the Dreadknight - actually, I take that back - it all started with the Trygon and then GW decided that every army needed a sub-titan sized model. Ridiculous.
No seriously you didn't need to tell us you played eldar as a kid, it shows from your whining...
Seriously wtf is with the wraith knight hate??? It looks like a big wraithlord.. How does that not "have a place" in eldar? And if you really wanted to go back to where all this came from.. (Since you think trygon is where it started you must still be a teenager) it started with Dun Dun Duuuun the wraithlord.. A big tough monstrous creature that dwarfed the dreadnaughts.. Hmm a dozen ironic statements I can make here... Which to choose..
Wow, was I really 'whining' or sharing an opinion? Silly me, I thought discussion forums were for discussion. Obviously you missed the point of my post. The trygon is where this "monstrous miniature" trend started. You seem to think that a miniature that was released in 3rd Edition has any bearing on the discussion, which it does not. But, I'll humor you. You're right, a wraithlord from NEARLY 15 YEARS AGO has a lot to do with the 9" miniatures they're releasing now. And the one from 3rd Edition did not "dwarf the dreadnaughts", hell the ones now barely do. They are about the same size. That would be like saying that the reason they're releasing trygons now was because they released screamer-killers in 2nd Edition. Or, it could be that GW is on a tear of releasing humongous kits that don't fit the aesthetic of the army nor the fluff that will soon have to be retconned. It's funny that you assume I'm a teenager when you're clearly showing your age. Or perhaps just your mental age. Irony indeed.
Ah, GW continues its formulaic approach to codex/model releases by ensuring another new army has a big creature slot, this time filled by another oversized robot thing. It's becoming predictable. Further proof to my belief that GW just doesn't have any real imagination left that hasn't been stifled by years of corporate money grabbing.
So 5-man Tac Squads for the same current price as 10 is in our future?
Count on it.
Sickening, going to buy a couple boxes and then sling them for $50 on eBay when the codex gets released.
:edit:
puma713 wrote: It is a clear reflection of Games Workshop's business-to-codex mentality now. I mean, the Riptide seems to sort of a have a place in the Tau army, but the Wraithknight feels so phony.
shade1313 wrote:*sigh* Picked up two discounted boxes of the current 10 Dire Avengers, because I know that eventually I'll want them, and I don't much feel like paying the rumored prices.
Howard A Treesong wrote:Ah, GW continues its formulaic approach to codex/model releases by ensuring another new army has a big creature slot, this time filled by another oversized robot thing. It's becoming predictable. Further proof to my belief that GW just doesn't have any real imagination left that hasn't been stifled by years of corporate money grabbing.
MUH geedubs
MUH armiezz
What is this 2001? God, no wonder Geedubs is still around because you people are so helplessly enslaved that it's actually pretty pathetic. Seriously though get yourselves together, you're grown adults crying about this
So, I'm "crying" about this because I went and bought (at a discount to the current price, mind you) some miniatures that I know I'll want in a few months, rather than waiting and paying double the current NON discounted price for them?
I still find all of this complaining and moaning over these RUMORS to be entertaining. What ever happened to the good ol "I will believe it when I see it" attitude?
As people people complaining about the WK....Continue, but just let it be known that you have been ninja'd 10 pages too late.
shade1313 wrote: So, I'm "crying" about this because I went and bought (at a discount to the current price, mind you) some miniatures that I know I'll want in a few months, rather than waiting and paying double the current NON discounted price for them?
Riiiiiight.
The whole pity-party "*sigh* " makes you sound spineless and like it's something that you were forced to do. Be opportunistic. Buy a couple extra and sell them to other people. Embrace the change or you'll end up on a toy soldier forum crying to deaf ears.
Ah, so you inferred something and have decided that I'm "spineless", and have decided what my future course of purchases and resale ought to be.
Good for you. I'm not interested in reselling or flipping minis. I'm interested in getting what I want for future use now, before likely price hikes, that I can presently afford. But if I could make you feel all condescendingly pleased with yourself, I suppose I'll be glad to help your ego.
shade1313 wrote: Ah, so you inferred something and have decided that I'm "spineless", and have decided what my future course of purchases and resale ought to be.
Good for you. I'm not interested in reselling or flipping minis. I'm interested in getting what I want for future use now, before likely price hikes, that I can presently afford. But if I could make you feel all condescendingly pleased with yourself, I suppose I'll be glad to help your ego.
'nuff said.
Nope, all I did was infer. Thanks for the ego boost though bud, I had the hot water running and the razor blade all ready till you saved my life
Eldar Wraithknight
This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes one Eldar Wraithknight, this completely new Walker stands a massive 9 inches tall and can be constructed with a variety of armaments to fulfill a range of battlefield roles.
Emphasis mine.
Has no one caught this yet? Since its capitalized, wouldn't that make you think its a walker and not a MC? Or am I just crazy?
puma713 wrote: I love the Eldar. They were my first army when I was a kid and they were my go-to army for years. I have always loved their lore, their psychic prowess and the art of war they brought to the battlefield through speed and trickery. I love everything about the army and I have stuck with them (when I still played 40K) through the many iterations.
But now, looking upon the Wraithknight, I am disappoint. I am sure there are people that love it and people that hate it - well I am one of those people that looks at it and grimaces at how forced it looks. It is a clear reflection of Games Workshop's business-to-codex mentality now. I mean, the Riptide seems to sort of a have a place in the Tau army, but the Wraithknight feels so phony. It all started with the Dreadknight - actually, I take that back - it all started with the Trygon and then GW decided that every army needed a sub-titan sized model. Ridiculous.
No seriously you didn't need to tell us you played eldar as a kid, it shows from your whining...
Seriously wtf is with the wraith knight hate??? It looks like a big wraithlord.. How does that not "have a place" in eldar? And if you really wanted to go back to where all this came from.. (Since you think trygon is where it started you must still be a teenager) it started with Dun Dun Duuuun the wraithlord.. A big tough monstrous creature that dwarfed the dreadnaughts.. Hmm a dozen ironic statements I can make here... Which to choose..
Wow, was I really 'whining' or sharing an opinion? Silly me, I thought discussion forums were for discussion. Obviously you missed the point of my post. The trygon is where this "monstrous miniature" trend started. You seem to think that a miniature that was released in 3rd Edition has any bearing on the discussion, which it does not. But, I'll humor you. You're right, a wraithlord from NEARLY 15 YEARS AGO has a lot to do with the 9" miniatures they're releasing now. And the one from 3rd Edition did not "dwarf the dreadnaughts", hell the ones now barely do. They are about the same size. That would be like saying that the reason they're releasing trygons now was because they released screamer-killers in 2nd Edition. Or, it could be that GW is on a tear of releasing humongous kits that don't fit the aesthetic of the army nor the fluff that will soon have to be retconned. It's funny that you assume I'm a teenager when you're clearly showing your age. Or perhaps just your mental age. Irony indeed.
Oh my god he's still whining...... seriously you wouldn't last a day here in Oz
I'm a bit curious as for what role in the eldar army the knight's supposed to fill. We already have the lord as a fairly good anchor with heavy weapons. Is this just the next step? Are they going to lower the survivability of the lord so this one takes it's place and why should we then even bother to get the lords?
Also. Of course there's a lot of comparison to the lord as it seem to be rather slow (no visible jet-packs) and kind of looks like one, but as it's piloted by a living eldar it might just as well be a vehicle (walker) Would that be a good idea?
I for one likes the look of it, but why didn't they put on a jet-pack? It's NOT a wraith-construct! and there's no reason then (IMHO) to add a slow eldar war machine. The eldar as I know them relies on lightning fast strikes with grav tanks, jetbikes and fleet of foot infantry. (yes, I play Saim-hann).
This thing doesn't really fit ranger armies... or wraith armies... or wind riders... or swordwind... What role is it supposed to fill that the eldar's lacking?
Sorry for the long post, I'm not quite awake yet *sips tea*
GTKA666 wrote: I still find all of this complaining and moaning over these RUMORS to be entertaining. What ever happened to the good ol "I will believe it when I see it" attitude?
As people people complaining about the WK....Continue, but just let it be known that you have been ninja'd 10 pages too late.
This... so many people are whining and moaning about gak that hasn't even been confirmed... (seriously it reminds me of all those neck-beards bitching about how the new transformer movie 'ruined their childhood' cause bumblebee was diff..)
seriously so many post complaining that of course the rest of us are going to hit you up on it....
Because it's lazy. If you're going to do a big oval base release - something that's clearly mandatory with GW now - then at least try for something original. Just making "The same but bigger" is a cop-out. It's not a bad model, but it is a lot of wasted potential.
Spazamataz wrote: Oh my god he's still whining...... seriously you wouldn't last a day here in Oz
Because suuuure, you're so much harder than everyone else, paying double for GW products like you keep telling us over and over again. Slip another shrimp on the barbie and get over yourself, "mate".
Spazamataz wrote: Oh my god he's still whining...... seriously you wouldn't last a day here in Oz
Because suuuure, you're so much harder than everyone else, paying double for GW products like you keep telling us over and over again. Slip another shrimp on the barbie and get over yourself, "mate".
I'm sorry, you're not hardcore enough until you've encountered your first dropbear attack. And you're only hardcore if you survive it. Oh and the monster spiders. I've seen one cave in the roof of a minivan. True story.
Spazamataz wrote: Oh my god he's still whining...... seriously you wouldn't last a day here in Oz
Because suuuure, you're so much harder than everyone else, paying double for GW products like you keep telling us over and over again. Slip another shrimp on the barbie and get over yourself, "mate".
I'm sorry, you're not hardcore enough until you've encountered your first dropbear attack. And you're only hardcore if you survive it. Oh and the monster spiders. I've seen one cave in the roof of a minivan. True story.
Your giant spiders got nothing on our chavs, they arent scary but come on, we have to put up with them, cut us some slack here.
Apparently rumors of GW having trouble with their supply vs. demand on this Eldar release are true in spite of them having two months to work on the problem since the Tau fiasco. My local GW store has already been told by GWHQ to expect to have less new Eldar to sell on release day than they would like.
Given how they seem to forget an army a month after release (since WD is filled with the next new shiny thing..) having major supply issues is worrying.
Even with the minimal hype GW creates (WD, website, teaser trailer) they probably want the majority of our spending in the first weeks after release.
Guys I think it is now time to assume some one has raided one of the factories that make the plastic and is holding it hostage till they get X million dollars, hence the price hikes.
Because it's lazy. If you're going to do a big oval base release - something that's clearly mandatory with GW now - then at least try for something original. Just making "The same but bigger" is a cop-out. It's not a bad model, but it is a lot of wasted potential.
megatrons2nd over at Warseer wrote:One of my local guys said that what he heard for the Iyanden book is it has rules for attacking a Craftworld.
Commissar Merces over at Warseer wrote:Just got off the phone with a friend who is somewhat in the know. He says that the supplement book is more like crusade of fire mixed with some of the fantasy background books than it is chapter approved. Said it was cool but not worth the price tag.
Said there is some confusion about the Wraithknight as it says walker in white dwarf but is said to not be a walker. But did say wraith guard are nerfed but aspect warriors got a shot in the arm.
Oh, and leaked release lists show Wind Riders listed among repackaged boxes, together with 3-packs of SM Bikes, SM Scout Bikes, Chaos Bikes and Necron Destroyers. Autarch on jetbike gets the finecast treatment (as an add-on to the bike kit).
Maybe GW is planning a Saim Hann supplement though, accompanied by the new jetbike.
megatrons2nd over at Warseer wrote:One of my local guys said that what he heard for the Iyanden book is it has rules for attacking a Craftworld.
Wait... didn't we get enough of that grox-crap from Path of the warrior?
I have so far never heard of any attack on a craftworld that's been presented as remotely reasonable -.-
Kroothawk wrote: Maybe GW is planning a Saim Hann supplement though, accompanied by the new jetbike.
Makes sense. The current release are mostly Wraith-based (Wraithknight, Wraithguards, Wraithblades, Wraithfighter, Spiritseer), which matches the Wraith-heavy aspect Iyanden craftworld. They could do a release with new Shining Spears and Jetbikes together with a Saim-Hann supplement, and a host of new Aspect miniatures together with a Biel-Tan supplement.
I find it amusing that they've had that prototype for 6 years, and somehow they just can't release it. I suspect they'd see this as a good reason not to reveal any work in progress ever again, since people have been waiting for those jetbikes for half a decade now. One wonders though, if someone could bribe a warehouse worker to go and drop the Jetbike mould. Hey, it worked for the plastic dwarf thane!
Got a sneak peek of the White Dwarf today, managed to dig out some actual rules from the battle report, preview teasers and a couple of tiny pages from the codex that were printed in the WD that I managed to read. Not many stats on offer but still a reasonable chunk of rules. I'm probably mis-remembering the names of some of these rules but here is what I picked up in no particular order:
- From what I saw all the non Wraith infantry have the run/shoot shoot/run ability (the rule was called Battle something). Avengers definitely do (from the report) and Rangers definitely do (from tiny printed profile in the WD) as well. Not sure if its just for Shuriken weapons (Rangers do have Pistols I guess).
- It looks likes all Eldar have the 'Ancient Foe' special rule, no idea what this does but I suspect its something like Hatred Daemons of Slaneesh (don't think it was Necron related as the report was against Crons) since all Eldar appear to have it (including the Wraith units).
- There are 14 Eldar specific psychic powers from 2 different charts, Runes of Battle and Runes of Fate. However it looks like several of the powers are 2 in 1, i.e they have a buff mode and a debuff mode, so there are actually HEAPS of powers. I.e the Primaris for Battle is Conceal/Reveal (as a single card/roll etc), Conceal gives you Shrouded and Reveal removes Shrouded from an enemy. The 1 on the Battle Chart was Destructor/Renew(?), Destructor being the same as before with Soul Blaze added and Renew allowing you to restore a wound to a friendy model within range (18" I think). Primaris for Runes of Fate was Guide, which is now 24" range but is otherwise the exact same as before. Very surprising to see this as aside from the range it is far worse than the Divination Primaris (although I guess you could take both and effectively Guide two units). The 1 on the Fate Chart was a terrible Focuses Witchfire power. Fortune and Doom are still options (the Farseer in the report had them) and appear to have the same effects.
- The Avatar has Fleet. Also one of the psychic powers increases your movement speed/charge range somehow
- The Wraithknight is insanely huge, it is literally twice the height of a Wraithlord, and the sword option it can take is basically the size of a Wraithlord as well. It can take up to 2 Suncannons, which are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast or up to 2 Wraithlances(?) which are presumably the heavy anti tank option. Sword replaces one of the big guns I think (they are arm mounted like the Titans). This is in addition to the two shoulder mounted heavy weapons (I saw Scatters and Starcannons, so presumably the normal range of heavy weapons are available)
- Wraithguard and Wraithblades look good, think scaled down Wraithlords. They looked a bit bigger than the old ones, but I think it was partly just the added range of motion in the poses on 40mm bases (similar to the old 25mm base Terminators vs the newer 40mm base ones, they are bigger but the better poses help as well). Wraithguard can now get either Wraithcannons (which from the fluff descriptions seemed to still be single shot and very powerful) or D Scythes which were described as a multi shot weapon but it could still Pen vehicles on a 6. Wraithblades are only 1A base (sadly) but looked like they could go either 2 CCW (no idea on stats of their weapons, but they appeared to have sword/axe options) or 1 CCW + Shield gen arm.
- Wraithguard are definitely S5 T6, Lord is almost certainly not T6 (a full unit of Destroyers shot one in the report and did nothing, which suggests T8 or some other equivalent buff). No idea on the stats for the Knight.
- It looks like Aspect Warriors have the same base profile, include Exarches with Ld9
- Reapers have Slow and Purposeful
- Rangers have WS4. They also have a character (not sure if he is upgrade or HQ) who has a 120" range Sniper Rifle.
- One of the fliers has 2 Heavy D Scythes on the wings and a psychic based main gun. The other has 2 Bright Lances and a Pulse Laser.
- Saw stats for what looked like special weapons for characters, might have been for Special Characters as well since the 120" range sniper was in there. One weapon was +2S, AP- Melee, Rending, Fleshbane, Instant Death. Another was +1S AP3, Soul Blaze, and if you killed anything with Soul Blaze then every unit within 6" of that unit would become effected by Soul Blaze as well. There was also a one use only piece of wargear, which you could use when the character died. On a 2+ you place a S4 AP3 template over the character, hitting both friend and foe, but if you cause at least 1 wound then the character stands back up with 1 wound. Last one I saw was an item which gave the user Fearless, Shrouded, Stealth and re-roll cover saves but they lose the IC rule, which gives people a way to make a Solitare (the name was something to do with the Laughing God).
Just been converting the new prices from US dollars to British pounds, and I'm shaking my head so much that it's in danger of rolling off my neck!
£22 for 5 Dire Avengers! Cor Blimey. The old box gave you ten for the same price.
To put that in perspective, I can buy a late war Germany infantry company from Plastic Soldier Company or Warlord Games, for £16, which still leaves me some change for paints or brushes. You could get 5 tiger tanks for the same price. Ok, so FOW uses smaller models, but come on GW, a joke's a joke.
Even better, for the price of 5 dire avengers, I could buy a 2 litre bottle of vodka and a fish supper. Sounds like a good lunch too me
Shandara wrote: Let's hope for an Alaitoc supplement with a new Ranger Disruption table!
It stands to reason they'll release a supplement for each Craftworld, at these prices it'd be madness not to.
Either they get one shot at this before the customers get that its jus as "pointless but nice, far to expencive" as the crusade of fire book.
Or they (GW) actually ad some interresting rules and open up for an exelent profit of books for chaos legions craftworlds, hive fleets etc.
I would not count on the second alternative though.
It would e funny though, if Eldrad was only availale for Ulthwe/main codex.
Strange they dont release a new Yriel to go with the Iyanden book. I bet his Eyepiece and spear is a horror to behold in finecast.
Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.
Which is pretty hard to take when GW are the ones writing the rules for them, and constantly get accused of writing good rules for the units which get updated/added. Jetbikes were already the best scoring unit Eldar had in 6th, with a new kit and some more options people could have used them as the core of their army (i.e more than 2 units of 3) and that would sell well.
I will feel bad directing all my firepower on to the knight and potentially destroying it first turn. As he takes it off the table, I will look at the price tag of the model and then give the guy an awkward smile.
Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).
Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.
I'd have thought the jetbikes bring the most profit seeing how ridiculously priced they are for what you get.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.
Someone said GW focus on new codex entries for first waves to avoid freebooting resinbit providers, and such problems as they had with the wolf cav.
Sounds likely to me, and fit nicely with the latest couple of releases.
Warriors of chaos recently got two waves of models within 6 months, perhaps we will see more small waves of models in the near future. Dont give up on the jetbikes just yet.
Edit: and to be fair, if that is all they do to the jetbikes, tilt the rider slightly forward, I would not spend my money on it. Perhaps if I got a clever way to mount a shur cannon on it in the box
ut it looks pretty much the same to me.
Powerguy wrote: It can take up to 2 Suncannons, which are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast
So it could get to shoot 6 S6 AP2 Blasts? Nifty, if a bit time consuming with all the scatter dice. I guess you could roll multiple scatter dice at the same time?
Morachi wrote: Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).
Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.
A vehicle (and really, that model does NOT fit a touhness value in any way) in a unit of bikes?
That will be a "fun" and rather nightmare-inducing unit ruleswise...
Morachi wrote: Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).
Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.
A vehicle (and really, that model does NOT fit a touhness value in any way) in a unit of bikes?
That will be a "fun" and rather nightmare-inducing unit ruleswise...
It doesn't have to be PART of the unit, just included as part of a FOC choice, so the unit isn't pegged into Fast Attack, taking up a valuable slot when it can be akin to a support platform for Jetbikes (in an assisting fashion).
Morachi wrote: Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).
Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.
A vehicle (and really, that model does NOT fit a touhness value in any way) in a unit of bikes?
That will be a "fun" and rather nightmare-inducing unit ruleswise...
Don't the ravenwing already have that? - they get a landspeeder in a bike squadron iirc
What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.
Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!
unmercifulconker wrote: What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.
Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!
Powerguy wrote: Got a sneak peek of the White Dwarf today, managed to dig out some actual rules from the battle report, preview teasers and a couple of tiny pages from the codex that were printed in the WD that I managed to read. Not many stats on offer but still a reasonable chunk of rules. I'm probably mis-remembering the names of some of these rules but here is what I picked up in no particular order:
- From what I saw all the non Wraith infantry have the run/shoot shoot/run ability (the rule was called Battle something). Avengers definitely do (from the report) and Rangers definitely do (from tiny printed profile in the WD) as well. Not sure if its just for Shuriken weapons (Rangers do have Pistols I guess).
- It looks likes all Eldar have the 'Ancient Foe' special rule, no idea what this does but I suspect its something like Hatred Daemons of Slaneesh (don't think it was Necron related as the report was against Crons) since all Eldar appear to have it (including the Wraith units).
- There are 14 Eldar specific psychic powers from 2 different charts, Runes of Battle and Runes of Fate. However it looks like several of the powers are 2 in 1, i.e they have a buff mode and a debuff mode, so there are actually HEAPS of powers. I.e the Primaris for Battle is Conceal/Reveal (as a single card/roll etc), Conceal gives you Shrouded and Reveal removes Shrouded from an enemy. The 1 on the Battle Chart was Destructor/Renew(?), Destructor being the same as before with Soul Blaze added and Renew allowing you to restore a wound to a friendy model within range (18" I think). Primaris for Runes of Fate was Guide, which is now 24" range but is otherwise the exact same as before. Very surprising to see this as aside from the range it is far worse than the Divination Primaris (although I guess you could take both and effectively Guide two units). The 1 on the Fate Chart was a terrible Focuses Witchfire power. Fortune and Doom are still options (the Farseer in the report had them) and appear to have the same effects.
- The Avatar has Fleet. Also one of the psychic powers increases your movement speed/charge range somehow
- The Wraithknight is insanely huge, it is literally twice the height of a Wraithlord, and the sword option it can take is basically the size of a Wraithlord as well. It can take up to 2 Suncannons, which are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast or up to 2 Wraithlances(?) which are presumably the heavy anti tank option. Sword replaces one of the big guns I think (they are arm mounted like the Titans). This is in addition to the two shoulder mounted heavy weapons (I saw Scatters and Starcannons, so presumably the normal range of heavy weapons are available)
- Wraithguard and Wraithblades look good, think scaled down Wraithlords. They looked a bit bigger than the old ones, but I think it was partly just the added range of motion in the poses on 40mm bases (similar to the old 25mm base Terminators vs the newer 40mm base ones, they are bigger but the better poses help as well). Wraithguard can now get either Wraithcannons (which from the fluff descriptions seemed to still be single shot and very powerful) or D Scythes which were described as a multi shot weapon but it could still Pen vehicles on a 6. Wraithblades are only 1A base (sadly) but looked like they could go either 2 CCW (no idea on stats of their weapons, but they appeared to have sword/axe options) or 1 CCW + Shield gen arm.
- Wraithguard are definitely S5 T6, Lord is almost certainly not T6 (a full unit of Destroyers shot one in the report and did nothing, which suggests T8 or some other equivalent buff). No idea on the stats for the Knight.
- It looks like Aspect Warriors have the same base profile, include Exarches with Ld9
- Reapers have Slow and Purposeful
- Rangers have WS4. They also have a character (not sure if he is upgrade or HQ) who has a 120" range Sniper Rifle.
- One of the fliers has 2 Heavy D Scythes on the wings and a psychic based main gun. The other has 2 Bright Lances and a Pulse Laser.
- Saw stats for what looked like special weapons for characters, might have been for Special Characters as well since the 120" range sniper was in there. One weapon was +2S, AP- Melee, Rending, Fleshbane, Instant Death. Another was +1S AP3, Soul Blaze, and if you killed anything with Soul Blaze then every unit within 6" of that unit would become effected by Soul Blaze as well. There was also a one use only piece of wargear, which you could use when the character died. On a 2+ you place a S4 AP3 template over the character, hitting both friend and foe, but if you cause at least 1 wound then the character stands back up with 1 wound. Last one I saw was an item which gave the user Fearless, Shrouded, Stealth and re-roll cover saves but they lose the IC rule, which gives people a way to make a Solitare (the name was something to do with the Laughing God).
Thanks for the rumors, but are you sure that the ancient enemys wasn't crons. It sounds right since there both well, old, and they seem to match up army's against there main foes in the battle report.
Morachi wrote: Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).
Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.
A vehicle (and really, that model does NOT fit a touhness value in any way) in a unit of bikes?
That will be a "fun" and rather nightmare-inducing unit ruleswise...
Don't the ravenwing already have that? - they get a landspeeder in a bike squadron iirc
Hmm, fair 'nuff. Would prefer 1-3 separate vypers as one choice or something like that, but I can see how it'd work.
unmercifulconker wrote: What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.
Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!
The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.
unmercifulconker wrote: What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.
Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!
The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.
Ah, well I guess thats were the Imperium can help.
Powerguy wrote: Got a sneak peek of the White Dwarf today, managed to dig out some actual rules from the battle report, preview teasers and a couple of tiny pages from the codex that were printed in the WD that I managed to read. Not many stats on offer but still a reasonable chunk of rules. I'm probably mis-remembering the names of some of these rules but here is what I picked up in no particular order:
- From what I saw all the non Wraith infantry have the run/shoot shoot/run ability (the rule was called Battle something). Avengers definitely do (from the report) and Rangers definitely do (from tiny printed profile in the WD) as well. Not sure if its just for Shuriken weapons (Rangers do have Pistols I guess).
- It looks likes all Eldar have the 'Ancient Foe' special rule, no idea what this does but I suspect its something like Hatred Daemons of Slaneesh (don't think it was Necron related as the report was against Crons) since all Eldar appear to have it (including the Wraith units).
- There are 14 Eldar specific psychic powers from 2 different charts, Runes of Battle and Runes of Fate. However it looks like several of the powers are 2 in 1, i.e they have a buff mode and a debuff mode, so there are actually HEAPS of powers. I.e the Primaris for Battle is Conceal/Reveal (as a single card/roll etc), Conceal gives you Shrouded and Reveal removes Shrouded from an enemy. The 1 on the Battle Chart was Destructor/Renew(?), Destructor being the same as before with Soul Blaze added and Renew allowing you to restore a wound to a friendy model within range (18" I think). Primaris for Runes of Fate was Guide, which is now 24" range but is otherwise the exact same as before. Very surprising to see this as aside from the range it is far worse than the Divination Primaris (although I guess you could take both and effectively Guide two units). The 1 on the Fate Chart was a terrible Focuses Witchfire power. Fortune and Doom are still options (the Farseer in the report had them) and appear to have the same effects.
- The Avatar has Fleet. Also one of the psychic powers increases your movement speed/charge range somehow
- The Wraithknight is insanely huge, it is literally twice the height of a Wraithlord, and the sword option it can take is basically the size of a Wraithlord as well. It can take up to 2 Suncannons, which are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast or up to 2 Wraithlances(?) which are presumably the heavy anti tank option. Sword replaces one of the big guns I think (they are arm mounted like the Titans). This is in addition to the two shoulder mounted heavy weapons (I saw Scatters and Starcannons, so presumably the normal range of heavy weapons are available)
- Wraithguard and Wraithblades look good, think scaled down Wraithlords. They looked a bit bigger than the old ones, but I think it was partly just the added range of motion in the poses on 40mm bases (similar to the old 25mm base Terminators vs the newer 40mm base ones, they are bigger but the better poses help as well). Wraithguard can now get either Wraithcannons (which from the fluff descriptions seemed to still be single shot and very powerful) or D Scythes which were described as a multi shot weapon but it could still Pen vehicles on a 6. Wraithblades are only 1A base (sadly) but looked like they could go either 2 CCW (no idea on stats of their weapons, but they appeared to have sword/axe options) or 1 CCW + Shield gen arm.
- Wraithguard are definitely S5 T6, Lord is almost certainly not T6 (a full unit of Destroyers shot one in the report and did nothing, which suggests T8 or some other equivalent buff). No idea on the stats for the Knight.
- It looks like Aspect Warriors have the same base profile, include Exarches with Ld9
- Reapers have Slow and Purposeful
- Rangers have WS4. They also have a character (not sure if he is upgrade or HQ) who has a 120" range Sniper Rifle.
- One of the fliers has 2 Heavy D Scythes on the wings and a psychic based main gun. The other has 2 Bright Lances and a Pulse Laser.
- Saw stats for what looked like special weapons for characters, might have been for Special Characters as well since the 120" range sniper was in there. One weapon was +2S, AP- Melee, Rending, Fleshbane, Instant Death. Another was +1S AP3, Soul Blaze, and if you killed anything with Soul Blaze then every unit within 6" of that unit would become effected by Soul Blaze as well. There was also a one use only piece of wargear, which you could use when the character died. On a 2+ you place a S4 AP3 template over the character, hitting both friend and foe, but if you cause at least 1 wound then the character stands back up with 1 wound. Last one I saw was an item which gave the user Fearless, Shrouded, Stealth and re-roll cover saves but they lose the IC rule, which gives people a way to make a Solitare (the name was something to do with the Laughing God).
The bikes! Tell us about the bikes! Surely you must have seen whether they are new sculpts or a repack? Please tell us the rumours are not true!
unmercifulconker wrote: What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.
Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!
The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.
Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?
@Ledabot. Possibly, the Eldar did table the Necrons in the report but I didn't see the players bouncing around like a 12 year old girl like you normally would if they had a major special rule advantage.
@lordofthegophers. Bikes are a repack, 3 in one kit. From the report it looks like they are still much the same as before rule wise as well (the only upgrades they had were Shuriken Cannons) which is a major disappointment.
Wow... I need to get my hands on the next WD!
And a pair of Wraith knights (yes a pair! I don't need food or water this month!)
And that Sniper!
Oooh... I hope this rules are good, well thought out and interesting!
unmercifulconker wrote: What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.
Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!
The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.
Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?
I'll make up my own fluff, better fluff! With Lasers and Dragons!
No, but really. I'll probably get my self a pair of them and bamf! I got two living twins in mini-titans guided by older deader pilots. done and done ^^
...now I just have to figure if I'll have to sacrifice my son or my right arm to afford them...
Iracundus wrote: Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?
I'm going to repeat myself. Why bother with PA if you can have all Terminiator armies? Or heck, why bother with Temrinators, why not go all Dreadnought? Or all Titan while we're at it.
unmercifulconker wrote: What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.
Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!
The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.
Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?
I'll make up my own fluff, better fluff! With Lasers and Dragons!
No, but really. I'll probably get my self a pair of them and bamf! I got two living twins in mini-titans guided by older deader pilots. done and done ^^
...now I just have to figure if I'll have to sacrifice my son or my right arm to afford them...
Dude, dont be so stupid, you need your arm to paint or hold the model.
Didn't think of that... seem like daddy has some bad news when he gets home then
About the wraith knight pilot fluff: Maybe the Wraith knight is supposed to be used by titan pilots who've lost their twin in battle? Instead of continue fighting in revenant or phantom, they can fight together in a mini-titan that's infused with the siblings spirit?
Just throwing out ideas here (kind of like how GW does ^^)
Iracundus wrote: Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?
I'm going to repeat myself. Why bother with PA if you can have all Terminiator armies? Or heck, why bother with Temrinators, why not go all Dreadnought? Or all Titan while we're at it.
Because the Imperium is limited by its approach to technology. Manufacturing is the bottleneck, with some items hardly being manufactured at all or via rote repetition of little understood processes. In the Imperium, bodies are not a limiting factor, but the availability of technology. It is why the Imperial Guard are sent off with what the Imperium can mass produce, not the best of what the Imperium can produce.
However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited. The Eldar limitation is supposedly dwindling numbers of living Eldar, so it is an entirely different situation from the Imperium. If your limitation is the number of living bodies, and thus also the number of pilots, the approach should be the opposite: of fitting out each as well as possible. Thus the whole concept of Eldar Guardians being used as ablative armor hordes, being armed with essentially a SMG and paper armor, is also counter to the whole theme of the Eldar, that of a dwindling race skilled in psychic technology.l
Enigma wrote: Didn't think of that... seem like daddy has some bad news when he gets home then
About the wraith knight pilot fluff: Maybe the Wraith knight is supposed to be used by titan pilots who've lost their twin in battle? Instead of continue fighting in revenant or phantom, they can fight together in a mini-titan that's infused with the siblings spirit?
Just throwing out ideas here (kind of like how GW does ^^)
Haha
Yeah it does say in the description that the live pilot is really really angry so maybe he just chooses to stay with his dead brother for honour and revenge (and a bit of love).
Redemption wrote: Don't Eldar Titans also need a vast host of spirits in their Wraithbone core? So their pilots aren't exactly flying solo.
Depends on whether you go by the old Titan background. The reference to twins often piloting pairs of Revenants in the FW Titan stuff is a reference to this, as is the Wraithknight's thing about twins. However, by the old Eldar Titan background, if a twin died, their soul went into the Titan with the living one then spending much of their time in the Titan in order to be with them.
If you go by this, then if the twin died, the other should STILL be piloting a Titan, with its twin inside. To downgrade from a Titan down to a Knight seems a bit illogical given that FW Titans still have spirit stones.
The only possible workaround is if the Wraithknight was for those pairs of twins that were not of the Titan Clans already and therefore not eligible to pilot Eldar Titans in the first place. However it still seems odd to design a piece of military equipment for a niche demographic unless there is some sort of purpose or advantage to it. It's like designing a fighter plane that can only be piloted by red haired people.
the first army I played when I got into 40K was Eldar. Even while out of country, I was able to purchase a sizable eldar army (around 1750 points) for $356.98... using the same models for price inflation (and atrocious business tactics like 5 DA per box) it would now cost me $498.99... what effin effity eff eff, GW? If you are truly planning to tank your business at the end of this fiscal year, do so without your customers money... having been a strong supporter of their product for so many years now, and they continuously spit in the face of customers everywhere since the release of 6th edition making us feel like a bunch of dumb sheep for buying their outrageously priced products at list price while the rest of the worlds gaming systems keep advancing forward? "Best Miniatures in the World" my ass!
Agamemnon2 wrote: For a dying race, the Eldar sure have a lot of twins...
Actually they don't. In the old Eldar Titan background, twins and triplets were said to be rare, and for some reason the Eldar Titan Clans had more of them. This was back in the day when Eldar Phantom Titans needed twins or triplets to pilot them, and the spirits of the dead went into the Titans, making them literally a family operation. That gave some sort of rationale for limitation in Eldar Titan numbers.
The problem only crops up since the FW release of their Phantom did away with this requirement and had their Phantom piloted by a single living Eldar albeit aided by spirit stones in the Titan. It removed the bottleneck of requiring a specific limited demographic as pilots, which the sheer size of the Titan might justify. However if Phantoms and Revenants can now be piloted by single Eldar with nothing said about the identity of the souls in those spirit stones, the oddity of the Wraithknight still having those twin requirements stands out. In short, if the bigger ones don't need it anymore, why the smaller Wraithknight?
Agamemnon2 wrote: For a dying race, the Eldar sure have a lot of twins...
Actually they don't. In the old Eldar Titan background, twins and triplets were said to be rare, and for some reason the Eldar Titan Clans had more of them. This was back in the day when Eldar Phantom Titans needed twins or triplets to pilot them, and the spirits of the dead went into the Titans, making them literally a family operation. That gave some sort of rationale for limitation in Eldar Titan numbers.
The problem only crops up since the FW release of their Phantom did away with this requirement and had their Phantom piloted by a single living Eldar albeit aided by spirit stones in the Titan. It removed the bottleneck of requiring a specific limited demographic as pilots, which the sheer size of the Titan might justify. However if Phantoms and Revenants can now be piloted by single Eldar with nothing said about the identity of the souls in those spirit stones, the oddity of the Wraithknight still having those twin requirements stands out. In short, if the bigger ones don't need it anymore, why the smaller Wraithknight?
because its a immoral business practice to sell more models... dont like the fluff making customers feel like they should be making a creative army? rewrite the fluff so they have to buy the biggest baddest stuff just because... look at newcrons, look at chaos, look at DA, look at tau... a bagillion new things jump out of nowhere with new fluff stating that they were always there, we just never caught glimpse till now?
Iracundus wrote: However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited.l
Okay, so it's your assumption that there is no limit to what the Eldar can manufacture.
Not to mention Eldar culture is highly reliant on individual predisposition - not every Eldar can become an Aspect or a Knight pilot. Most Guardians will never be anything else not because they don't want them to be better equipped and trained, but because they can't be better equipped and trained.
WarlordRob117 wrote: a bagillion new things jump out of nowhere with new fluff stating that they were always there, we just never caught glimpse till now?
Let's be serious here. If GW confined themselves to re-releasing the same established units over and over again, they'd get ripped a new one for being uncreative.
Iracundus wrote: However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited.l
Okay, so it's your assumption that there is no limit to what the Eldar can manufacture.
Go ahead then and cite some GW sources showing limitation. The only limitation given so far in canon is the fact a Bonesinger has to sing it into existence, so there is the need for a Bonesinger and sufficient time. Some of the Eldar weapons like Firepikes are referenced as being ancient artifacts and presumably therefore their manufacturing process is lost, but there isn't anything specific mentioned about Eldar Titans, tanks, or other superheavies being limited any more than there is anything said about shuriken catapults being limited.
If you want positing limitation, the burden of proof is on you since that is the positive claim. One can also claim it is just an assumption there are no invisible purple unicorns in 40K, but the burden on proof would be on the person claiming there are.
The problem isn't GW releasing new things or making additions. The problem is GW making ill-thought out additions without considering the past background, or outright trampling over the past background.
Iracundus wrote: However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited.l
Okay, so it's your assumption that there is no limit to what the Eldar can manufacture.
Go ahead then and cite some GW sources showing limitation. The only limitation given so far in canon is the fact a Bonesinger has to sing it into existence, so there is the need for a Bonesinger and sufficient time. Some of the Eldar weapons like Firepikes are referenced as being ancient artifacts and presumably therefore their manufacturing process is lost, but there isn't anything specific mentioned about Eldar Titans, tanks, or other superheavies being limited any more than there is anything said about shuriken catapults being limited.
If you want positing limitation, the burden of proof is on you since that is the positive claim. One can also claim it is just an assumption there are no invisible purple unicorns in 40K, but the burden on proof would be on the person claiming there are.
Wait a minute...if you are the one claiming there is no limit on manufacturing, shouldn't the burden of proof be on you?
Iracundus wrote: However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited.l
Okay, so it's your assumption that there is no limit to what the Eldar can manufacture.
Go ahead then and cite some GW sources showing limitation. The only limitation given so far in canon is the fact a Bonesinger has to sing it into existence, so there is the need for a Bonesinger and sufficient time. Some of the Eldar weapons like Firepikes are referenced as being ancient artifacts and presumably therefore their manufacturing process is lost, but there isn't anything specific mentioned about Eldar Titans, tanks, or other superheavies being limited any more than there is anything said about shuriken catapults being limited.
If you want positing limitation, the burden of proof is on you since that is the positive claim. One can also claim it is just an assumption there are no invisible purple unicorns in 40K, but the burden on proof would be on the person claiming there are.
Wait a minute...if you are the one claiming there is no limit on manufacturing, shouldn't the burden of proof be on you?
No, because the existence of limitations is the positive claim. Just as the burden of proof is not on the person claiming there are no invisible purple unicorns in 40K, but rather on the person claiming there are. There are many suppositions that cannot be proven false, but which have no evidence for their existence. Are we then to go by that there are invisible purple unicorns, intangible spaghetti monsters and all manner of other things that are not definitively disproven? Even the simple statement: "I am omnipotent" cannot be conclusively proven false because the fall back explanation is "I chose not to exert my omnipotent powers.". Are we then to believe this person is omnipotent just because it cannot be disproven?
The only known canonical limitations we are given regarding Eldar manufacturing is the requirement of Bonesingers and time. Some particular items appear to be artifacts with the means of manufacture lost, but there are no such statements in regard to Eldar Titans. Even in the cases where the method was lost, it appears to be a matter of knowledge of procedure rather than material limitations, as shown by FW's Imperial Armour 12, which depicts among other things the Craftworld of Mymeara conducting a transfer of technology to Alaitoc in return for aid.
I got to place an order on the staff I want for eldar.
Flyer is 60€, Wraithknight is 90€, Wraithguard is 50€ and codex is 35€... I am a happy panda but prices are out of this planet :(
Fayric wrote: I cant believe a race so advanced as the Eldar dont have clone technology to make twins or triplets of any newborn child.
Well atleast thats more likely than the absurd idea that a single craftworld would have limitless supply of wraithbone in the basement.
Wraithbone is solidified warp energy and this is given as such in the 2nd edition Eldar Codex. It grows and repairs itself on its own given time, and it draws power into itself through the warp, which is how the Craftworld derives its main power. This power is then converted to more conventional forms such as light and heat. (p. 5, 2nd edition Eldar Codex)
The Eldar novel Path of the Seer also is in line with this Codex information as it portrays the crafting of a sensor module for an Eldar ship. It is sung into existence by a team of Bonesingers, and the character observing using her psychic witch sight sees the pattern of the thing forming in the warp before the thing takes shape physically. Thus there is no limitation to wraithbone manufacture beyond having sufficiently skilled Eldar to create and shape it and the time to do so.
megatrons2nd over at Warseer wrote:One of my local guys said that what he heard for the Iyanden book is it has rules for attacking a Craftworld.
Wait... didn't we get enough of that grox-crap from Path of the warrior?
I have so far never heard of any attack on a craftworld that's been presented as remotely reasonable -.-
Except that Iyanden was attacked by a major hive fleet, which is why they make such extensive use of wraithguard and wraithlords. Not only was it attacked, but it was nearly destroyed.
If you're someone who is about to leak pictures from White Dwarf please use a camera from the last DECADE. I don't understand how so many leaked pictures are of such poor quality given camera technology..
Fayric wrote: I cant believe a race so advanced as the Eldar dont have clone technology to make twins or triplets of any newborn child.
Well atleast thats more likely than the absurd idea that a single craftworld would have limitless supply of wraithbone in the basement.
Maybe something about all eldar being psychic to some degree hampers cloning. We know the dark eldar have and use cloning tech but their psychic abilities have withered from disuse.
- The Wraithknight is insanely huge, it is literally twice the height of a Wraithlord, and the sword option it can take is basically the size of a Wraithlord as well. It can take up to 2 Suncannons, which are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast or up to 2 Wraithlances(?) which are presumably the heavy anti tank option. Sword replaces one of the big guns I think (they are arm mounted like the Titans). This is in addition to the two shoulder mounted heavy weapons (I saw Scatters and Starcannons, so presumably the normal range of heavy weapons are available)
-
No, no, remember, you don't play Eldar, it's expensive as frakk, you don't need this model... you don't need an insanely huge model and make a mech army together with your riptide...
I weep for my wallet. I want to be able to resist this buy. So beautiful
Iracundus wrote: No, because the existence of limitations is the positive claim.
Holy feth, you even tried to pull a Russell on me. Look dude, this has nothing to do with burden of proof. We're not talking about the real world. Even if we would, your claim that Eldar are omnipotent and can conjure titans out of thin air is the claim than needs some support, unlike my assumption that they follow the same rules each and every other race in the setting is bound by - limited by power and material consumption, as well as manpower. I know which one is more probable.
I see your teapot and rise you by a razor. Now we're both equally ridiculous.
I for one, am intrigued about the amount of psychic powers available. I'm curious to see just how decent of a farseer you can construct with the powers table. It would suck if you weren't guaranteed fortune, etc.
So from the rumors posted it seems that both the Wraithknight and the Fighter bomber can be configured for an anti tank or anti infantry role.
Wraithknight, 2 of the str 6 ap 2 blast weapons and 2 starcannons is a fair amount of ap 2 weaponry (wounding on 2's in many cases) or take the super lance weapon if you want anti tank.
I am really excited about the rumors on the fighter, 2 brightlances and a pulsar, seems like a Vendetta Lite, enough weaponry to take out AP 12 fliers and be versatile enough that if your opponent has no fliers, it can take on anti tank duties. Hoping the cost isnt too high.
Iracundus wrote: No, because the existence of limitations is the positive claim.
Holy feth, you even tried to pull a Russell on me. Look dude, this has nothing to do with burden of proof. We're not talking about the real world. Even if we would, your claim that Eldar are omnipotent and can conjure titans out of thin air is the claim than needs some support, unlike my assumption that they follow the same rules each and every other race in the setting is bound by - limited by power and material consumption, as well as manpower. I know which one is more probable.
I see your teapot and rise you by a razor. Now we're both equally ridiculous.
Didn't you read your Eldar background? It explicitly says wraithbone is self repairing and draws warp power through itself. The limitations are there: time and necessity for skilled personnel. Lack of material however is not one of them.
Burden of proof is relevant because universes have to be internally self-consistent within their own fictional paradigm. Application of real world conceptions of Occam's Razor is faulty because it has to be within the context of the universe, and in a universe where the warp is a real source of power and material, what seems ridiculous in real life is not so in 40K. I never said Eldar were omnipotent before. We do know however they do conjure their material goods and weapons of war out of thin air. You seem to be unaware of the evidence from both past Eldar Codices and also the GW Epic Swordwind supplement as to what wraithbone actually is. You seem to have also mistakenly assumed not being limited by material to being omnipotent. One doesn't not equate to the other.
The point was that the Eldar are not not being limited by material, but rather by manpower and by time as opposed to the Imperium which has the opposite limitations. However within such a context, the limitations on the Wraithknight appear more incongruous given FW's lifting of such piloting limitations for Eldar Titans.
Now if you can actually come up with some actual proof as to Eldar manufacturing limitations since the burden is on you after all,do so. There have been already some references to examples in the background given of no apparent Eldar material limitations. Ranting on about how you wish things were in 40K does no good when GW has already stated how things work for the Eldar. You may disagree with that, but you don't have the 40K IP and don't determine what happens in 40K. The Eldar have limitations in 40K, but they are not limited in material.
I wish we could find out more about the Autarch and the rumored aspect changes. The worst thing about Eldar right now is the compulsory eldrad + farseer in every HQ slot. I really hope this was fixed as simply cutting guardian points by 25% isn't going to be enough.
The wraithguard I kind of like. Just wish they were swords instead of axes (for aesthetics). I imagine they'll always attack last and at only 1 attack I can't imagine them ever being a good buy.
DarknessEternal wrote: Any chance this thread can go back to being about Codex Eldar news and rumors?
there is... if refrain from being snooty about it... a simple "please stay on track" would have sufficed.
If GW confined themselves to re-releasing the same established units over and over again, they'd get ripped a new one for being uncreative
I wasnt remarking on them making new items, I was remarking on them rewriting armies for the sake of new items... nothing says each race cant be like the tau with the invention of new tech, but even then that doesnt make sense as according to GW's marketing department, there will never be a 41K... it'll just be rehash after rehash until somebody finally gets smart and says "ok, we've had enough"
Hm.. I get the feeling that the wraithblades are going to be nothing more than the Eldar version of the lychguard. Slow and high toughness that accomplishes nothing.
I like the fighter, I will be cutting the top of the Wraithblade's helmets(?) off though. Don't like that weird part on the top.. prefer the smooth clean helmets
Sidstyler wrote: I knew the wraithknight would have a 3-digit price tag. I fething knew it.
Well, yeah, based on their pricing structure I don't think there was much doubt that it would be $100+. The other large warmachines, i.e. Stompas, Baneblades are the same price, so it stands to reason the 9" mini titan would be around that price. I just don't get why people are continually shocked by GW's pricing. In fact, what is shocking to me is Wraithguard are only 5 for $50.
Getting confirmation the Iyanden book is not necessary for gameplay is good news. I'm all for extra optional books for those that want them, but if it had required 2 books at $100 just to play a specific army build, I think people would have been rightfully furious.
The Wraithguard axes look very WHFB High Elf like. Would have been nicer for swords or if they had gone for the old Howling Banshee Exarch axe style. Don't like the extra crest on top of the Wraithguard head.
As for the fighter, I agree a longer fuselage would be nice. The dorsal vanes break up the silhouette a lot. Might do better without them for a smoother outline in contrast the the spikier jaggedness of the Dark Eldar. I am guessing that is the rumored Crimson Hunter Aspect with its Aspect rune on the rear there or maybe it is the one on the wing.
megatrons2nd over at Warseer wrote:One of my local guys said that what he heard for the Iyanden book is it has rules for attacking a Craftworld.
Wait... didn't we get enough of that grox-crap from Path of the warrior?
I have so far never heard of any attack on a craftworld that's been presented as remotely reasonable -.-
Except that Iyanden was attacked by a major hive fleet, which is why they make such extensive use of wraithguard and wraithlords. Not only was it attacked, but it was nearly destroyed.
Sorry, I don't know how I managed to forget One of the most important events in "recent" eldar history. What I was talking of was more of a planned intelligent attack. Iyanden was not really attacked as much as "got in the Way" of Kraken. I think it was Kraken?
I can ser how the shadow of the hivefleet in the warp scrambled the seers precognition, bit I seriously don't belive in an attack from the imperium, orka, tau or such... But that's probably just me
Sidstyler wrote: I knew the wraithknight would have a 3-digit price tag. I fething knew it.
Well, yeah, based on their pricing structure I don't think there was much doubt that it would be $100+. The other large warmachines, i.e. Stompas, Baneblades are the same price, so it stands to reason the 9" mini titan would be around that price. I just don't get why people are continually shocked by GW's pricing. In fact, what is shocking to me is Wraithguard are only 5 for $50.
Getting confirmation the Iyanden book is not necessary for gameplay is good news. I'm all for extra optional books for those that want them, but if it had required 2 books at $100 just to play a specific army build, I think people would have been rightfully furious.
Its not apocalypse model... thats whats wrong with the price... also, 5 dire avengers for the same price as the old 10? if its the same one with no visual upgrade then there is no excuse but greediness
Agamemnon2 wrote:Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.
Only in the minds of GW managers. People like cool things, and a 25 year old model is not that cool anymore, the 6 year old prototype by Jes Goodwin is. Many people would love to play Saim Hann with lots of jetbikes, even replacing existing jetbikes. This is clearly a missed chance for huge profits .... if GW doesn't release them in a second wave, as I still suspect and hope. Esp. as Hastings predicted new bikes.
Fayric wrote:Someone said GW focus on new codex entries for first waves to avoid freebooting resinbit providers, and such problems as they had with the wolf cav.
Making no female farseer for 25 years is forcing Eldar players to fill their demand from other companies.
That said, there have been resin and plastic Eldar jetbikes close to the GW prototype sold.
Ledabot wrote:Thanks for the rumors, but are you sure that the ancient enemys wasn't crons. It sounds right since there both well, old, and they seem to match up army's against there main foes in the battle report.
Well, Necrons went to sleep for 65 millions years just escape Eldar. So I am quite certain that Necrons are the old enemy.
megatrons2nd over at Warseer wrote:One of my local guys said that what he heard for the Iyanden book is it has rules for attacking a Craftworld.
Wait... didn't we get enough of that grox-crap from Path of the warrior?
I have so far never heard of any attack on a craftworld that's been presented as remotely reasonable -.-
Except that Iyanden was attacked by a major hive fleet, which is why they make such extensive use of wraithguard and wraithlords. Not only was it attacked, but it was nearly destroyed.
Seems Enigma has never read the background of the craftworld Iyanden. And never heard of the craftworld Malan'tai
Comparing that Flyer to the aircrafts FW has designed so far for eldar and I'm not impressed at all. It should have Been longer, thinner and more elegant :(
Sidstyler wrote: I knew the wraithknight would have a 3-digit price tag. I fething knew it.
Well, yeah, based on their pricing structure I don't think there was much doubt that it would be $100+. The other large warmachines, i.e. Stompas, Baneblades are the same price, so it stands to reason the 9" mini titan would be around that price. I just don't get why people are continually shocked by GW's pricing. In fact, what is shocking to me is Wraithguard are only 5 for $50.
Getting confirmation the Iyanden book is not necessary for gameplay is good news. I'm all for extra optional books for those that want them, but if it had required 2 books at $100 just to play a specific army build, I think people would have been rightfully furious.
Its not apocalypse model... thats whats wrong with the price... also, 5 dire avengers for the same price as the old 10? if its the same one with no visual upgrade then there is no excuse but greediness
What does it have to do with Apocalypse? So if it was only usable in bigger games played less often, than in every game, if desired, somehow justifies it? The reality is, GW is putting Apocaylpse scale stuff into standard 40k games now, and that's what the Wraithknight is.
And what does Dire Avengers have to do with anything I said? I'm not defending their prices, I'm just saying a massive kit with a high price shouldn't be shocking to anyone. Got a problem with the DA price increase? Buy them now at the current price, or don't buy anything at all if you prefer. GW keeps raising prices because people keep paying it.
Iracundus wrote: Now if you can actually come up with some actual proof as to Eldar manufacturing limitations since the burden is on you after all,do so. There have been already some references to examples in the background given of no apparent Eldar material limitations. Ranting on about how you wish things were in 40K does no good when GW has already stated how things work for the Eldar. You may disagree with that, but you don't have the 40K IP and don't determine what happens in 40K. The Eldar have limitations in 40K, but they are not limited in material.
You're asking me to provide proof of Eldar manufacturing limitations after admitting they're limited by manpower and time, both of which are kinda important in manufacturing, especially when you need a very specialised caste of psykers to produce and manipulate wraithbone.
edit* with the wings that swoopy how would these things ever land?
edit2* saw i was sourced in the op, I'm just bringing these pics over from /tg/. saw they weren't posted here and figured some eldar players might like to see them so I moved them to imageshack and stuck the links here.
Fighter, not so fussed about that. The Wraithblades, however.
The Wraithguard are a HUGE improvement to the old ones. Rules-wise, the assault WG are likely very similar to Necrons. They even have the Autarch Field Generator on their arm which will likely give them an invulnerable save. However, I doubt I'll want them as an assault element, but you never know.
The Sniper character is OUTSTANDING! Don't care about the rules, he is going into my collection.
The Flier looks very different that I anticpated, but I like it a lot. I'm hoping it will be a viable piece. I'm yet to see the DA or Tau fliers even hit the table, so I've got my fingers crossed.
Overall, the models so far look great. However, I can't justify a $115 retail price for a single model and may have to find the best discount for this piece.
Agamemnon2 wrote:Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.
Only in the minds of GW managers. People like cool things, and a 25 year old model is not that cool anymore, the 6 year old prototype by Jes Goodwin is. Many people would love to play Saim Hann with lots of jetbikes, even replacing existing jetbikes. This is clearly a missed chance for huge profits .... if GW doesn't release them in a second wave, as I still suspect and hope. Esp. as Hastings predicted new bikes.
Fayric wrote:Someone said GW focus on new codex entries for first waves to avoid freebooting resinbit providers, and such problems as they had with the wolf cav.
Making no female farseer for 25 years is forcing Eldar players to fill their demand from other companies.
That said, there have been resin and plastic Eldar jetbikes close to the GW prototype sold.
Ledabot wrote:Thanks for the rumors, but are you sure that the ancient enemys wasn't crons. It sounds right since there both well, old, and they seem to match up army's against there main foes in the battle report.
Well, Necrons went to sleep for 65 millions years just escape Eldar. So I am quite certain that Necrons are the old enemy.
megatrons2nd over at Warseer wrote:One of my local guys said that what he heard for the Iyanden book is it has rules for attacking a Craftworld.
Wait... didn't we get enough of that grox-crap from Path of the warrior?
I have so far never heard of any attack on a craftworld that's been presented as remotely reasonable -.-
Except that Iyanden was attacked by a major hive fleet, which is why they make such extensive use of wraithguard and wraithlords. Not only was it attacked, but it was nearly destroyed.
Seems Enigma has never read the background of the craftworld Iyanden. And never heard of the craftworld Malan'tai
Yes, bacause I feel that an entire craftworld would not notice a tyranid eating the infinity circuit? that piece of garbage fluff is totally ignored by me ^^
I feel better that way
Illic Nightspear is looking really nice. I might actually pick him up just to paint, alongside of the Rangers I've had sitting in my bits box for almost four years now.
Iracundus wrote: Now if you can actually come up with some actual proof as to Eldar manufacturing limitations since the burden is on you after all,do so. There have been already some references to examples in the background given of no apparent Eldar material limitations. Ranting on about how you wish things were in 40K does no good when GW has already stated how things work for the Eldar. You may disagree with that, but you don't have the 40K IP and don't determine what happens in 40K. The Eldar have limitations in 40K, but they are not limited in material.
You're asking me to provide proof of Eldar manufacturing limitations after admitting they're limited by manpower and time, both of which are kinda important in manufacturing, especially when you need a very specialised caste of psykers to produce and manipulate wraithbone.
Seriously.
You didn't read the original post carefully at all obviously. The original quote talked of how the limitation was in pilots, and manpower, not of limitation in ability to manufacture due to lack of knowledge such as the Imperium. You seem to be the only one that seems to have run off claiming this was a claim to omnipotence for the Eldar and then contesting the lack of material limitation.
Because the Imperium is limited by its approach to technology. Manufacturing is the bottleneck, with some items hardly being manufactured at all or via rote repetition of little understood processes. In the Imperium, bodies are not a limiting factor, but the availability of technology. It is why the Imperial Guard are sent off with what the Imperium can mass produce, not the best of what the Imperium can produce.
However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited. The Eldar limitation is supposedly dwindling numbers of living Eldar, so it is an entirely different situation from the Imperium. If your limitation is the number of living bodies, and thus also the number of pilots, the approach should be the opposite: of fitting out each as well as possible. Thus the whole concept of Eldar Guardians being used as ablative armor hordes, being armed with essentially a SMG and paper armor, is also counter to the whole theme of the Eldar, that of a dwindling race skilled in psychic technology.l
There is no information given that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited by material or by lack of knowledge. Given that the limitation is manpower and time, and not material, it makes no sense for Guardian hordes nor for specialized constructs that have even more finicky piloting limitations, especially when the Titans don't appear to have them anymore. Now that might change of GW adds or changes the background again but as things stand now, there does not seem to be a reason why the pilot of a Wraithknight couldn't just as well be piloting a Revenant fitted with their twin's stone.
Illric, the flier and the wraithblades look really good, so I'm happy with that Still not sold on the wraithknight, but I'm not so bothered, since I'll save myself a good bit of cash.
Also, are they shimmershields I spy on the wrist of the wraithblades? A 5++ in combat would be very nice for them indeed
edit* with the wings that swoopy how would these things ever land?
edit2* saw i was sourced in the op, I'm just bringing these pics over from /tg/. saw they weren't posted here and figured some eldar players might like to see them so I moved them to imageshack and stuck the links here.
FW's books say the Eldar do not make use of landing gear and instead their craft always have their anti-gravity fields on even at rest, so they float off the ground at all times.
I added more pics to the first post, inclding bomber, Spiritseer and Wraithguard guns.
Enigma wrote: Comparing that Flyer to the aircrafts FW has designed so far for eldar and I'm not impressed at all. It should have Been longer, thinner and more elegant :(
I agree. Nowhere near the elegance of FW models. Too close to exosting fighters. Reminds me of one. Looks close to the F-22:
Kroothawk wrote: I added more pics to the first post, inclding bomber, Spiritseer and Wraithguard guns.
Enigma wrote: Comparing that Flyer to the aircrafts FW has designed so far for eldar and I'm not impressed at all. It should have Been longer, thinner and more elegant :(
I agree. Nowhere near the elegance of FW models. Too close to exosting fighters. Reminds me of one. Looks close to the F-22:
To some extent all planes will look slightly similar just because of aerodynamics being the same for everyone. However I agree the FW Eldar craft looked more alien while still giving the impression of speed and maneuverability.
For the same reason I like the FW Wave Serpent better than the GW version. GW seems to think "Stick random vanes on it and that makes it Eldar"
edit* with the wings that swoopy how would these things ever land?
edit2* saw i was sourced in the op, I'm just bringing these pics over from /tg/. saw they weren't posted here and figured some eldar players might like to see them so I moved them to imageshack and stuck the links here.
Ah, well you have my thanks. I kinda stopped looking at /tg/ as the threads were moving so slowly.
I aggregated all of the pictures on a reddit post in /r/warhammer. sourcing you and /tg/
Iracundus wrote: There is no information given that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited by material or by lack of knowledge. Given that the limitation is manpower and time, and not material, it makes no sense for Guardian hordes
Eldar tech is limited by manpower and material supply (because the amount of wraithbone is directly correlated with the number of Eldar that can produce and manipulate it). That's on top of obvious cultural reasons for the existence of tiered military structure, the existence of Guardians, Aspects and specialized piloting personnel. I've addressed it all and now I'm done. Carry on as you were.
Kroothawk wrote: I added more pics to the first post, inclding bomber, Spiritseer and Wraithguard guns.
Enigma wrote: Comparing that Flyer to the aircrafts FW has designed so far for eldar and I'm not impressed at all. It should have Been longer, thinner and more elegant :(
I agree. Nowhere near the elegance of FW models. Too close to exosting fighters. Reminds me of one. Looks close to the F-22:
On topic, I actually really like the eldar flyer model. Then again, I really like nigh every flyer model I've seen. Maybe it's a silent grudge merely for being mainly a SW player who can't have any?
Off topic, how was that pic of the F-22 taken? I like the mental image of a guy hanging by his foot on a wire from a plane with a camera.
Sidstyler wrote: I knew the wraithknight would have a 3-digit price tag. I fething knew it.
Well, yeah, based on their pricing structure I don't think there was much doubt that it would be $100+. The other large warmachines, i.e. Stompas, Baneblades are the same price, so it stands to reason the 9" mini titan would be around that price. I just don't get why people are continually shocked by GW's pricing. In fact, what is shocking to me is Wraithguard are only 5 for $50.
Getting confirmation the Iyanden book is not necessary for gameplay is good news. I'm all for extra optional books for those that want them, but if it had required 2 books at $100 just to play a specific army build, I think people would have been rightfully furious.
Its not apocalypse model... thats whats wrong with the price... also, 5 dire avengers for the same price as the old 10? if its the same one with no visual upgrade then there is no excuse but greediness
What does it have to do with Apocalypse? So if it was only usable in bigger games played less often, than in every game, if desired, somehow justifies it? The reality is, GW is putting Apocaylpse scale stuff into standard 40k games now, and that's what the Wraithknight is.
And what does Dire Avengers have to do with anything I said? I'm not defending their prices, I'm just saying a massive kit with a high price shouldn't be shocking to anyone. Got a problem with the DA price increase? Buy them now at the current price, or don't buy anything at all if you prefer. GW keeps raising prices because people keep paying it.
Are you kidding? you're the one comparing the wraithknight to apocalypse models and you're asking me what it has to do with Apocalypse?
this not the reality... MCs have been around longer than apocalypse has... I think you have your logic backwards...
Also, the remark that 5 wraithguard are "only" 50 bucks, its actually 60, not 50... they did the same thing with grey knights... 50 bucks for termy sized models, 35 for another troop choice with only 5 models in it... thats garbage and everyone deserves to be shocked... you dont pour money faithfully into a company for years and then have the company turn around and screw you, literally in this case by jacking up prices so high that people are shelling out gobs of cash to keep up with the times... Are you aware of what happens during hyper-inflation? products and companies tank, then everyone, whether they have money or not can say goodbye to the "Greatest minis in the world" (as they call themselves) company.
Eldar tech is limited by manpower and material supply (because the amount of wraithbone is directly correlated with the number of Eldar that can produce and manipulate). That's on top of obvious cultural reasons for the existence of tiered military structure, the existence of Guardians, Aspects and specialized piloting personnel. I've addressed it all and now I'm done. Carry on as you were.
Really if you don't know your Eldar background, don't go around trying to make things up. If you have a point to make, produce evidence and cite it. Fanfiction does not count.
You didn't read the bit about wraithbone self-repair did you? That alone removes the limitation of material from existing constructs as they will repair given enough time, and wraithbone production can't really be cut off short of losing every Bonesinger. Once again the limitation is not of material shortage but of time. This is utterly different from the Imperium which relies on materials which can run short such as the various ores and metals like adamantium, or promethium. If a vein of ore runs out, then unless new sources are found, production lines shut down even if they are fully staffed with skilled personnel. A Bonesinger can produce wraithbone endlessly so long as they live, and that is a limitation of the Eldar life rather than that of wraithbone itself.
Fighter/bomber - I actually like it. It's not as good as FW, but compared to how much GW bungles most flyers, these are good. I take that back- these aren't just good because GW has lowered expectations through past incompetent design - they're good in their own right. Not great, but good. I'm quite impressed that the fighter/bomber variants look so different. THIS is an example of how you get the silhouette of a model right. That thing is instantly recognizable.
Wraithblades - I always thought the idea of these was a bit silly, but not too bad. Given the descriptions I'd heard, I expected in typical GW style for these guys to be ridiculously over-the-top, either carrying 21-foot samurai swords or leaping around like Spiderman with Warp Spider exarch blades on their forearms. I'm pleased to see GW exercise a bit of restraint with weapons that are only slightly oversized.
The new design changes their character though. The old wraithguard being monopose suggested something about their character. They were just kind of there, which echoed the background about their limited connection with the real world and the Eldar reluctance to disturb their ancestors' sleep to use them. These guys striding around looking alert, active, dynamic, it feels like it changes the concept. Now it's hard to imagine why any Eldar would ever not put their ancestor in a robot body... they appear to have the same range of mobility they had in life.
Sniper - Silly. Typical GW. I'll pass. "Hey guys, I'm a super-stealthy sniper. That's why I tied up all my hair into a six-inch topknot that blows in the wind gracefully. It makes it easier for me to hide."
Verdict: I've been an Eldar fan since before I even knew what Warhammer 40K was (seriously, my first GW miniature was an Eldar jetbike roughly 17 years ago that I bought because it looked cool compared to the other miniatures in the store. Then. It looked cool then.) If any release was to get me back into GW, it was this one. And GW has made some positive steps with a decent fighter/bomber, decent wraithblades, and an inoffensive wraithknight, but coupled with the insane prices, the insulting doubled price on Dire Avengers, and the doubly-insulting choice not to re-do jetbikes, GW lost their shot at my money.
For those of you keeping score, that's my three favorite armies released in a row (Tau, High Elves, Eldar), each one of them a swing and a miss. I guess that's good news for my wallet. Looks like this summer it will be Drake, Red Box Games, or Infinity that get all of my miniature-buying-bucks.
Iracundus wrote: To some extent all planes will look slightly similar just because of aerodynamics being the same for everyone.
Aerodynamics??
The principles of aerodynamics are the same for everyone. Whether or not people utilize them is another matter. I think Space Marine flyers fly through sheer thrust from their engines rather than relying on aerodynamic lift. Probably hideously inefficient but that's the Imperium.
Wraithblades - I always thought the idea of these was a bit silly, but not too bad. Given the descriptions I'd heard, I expected in typical GW style for these guys to be ridiculously over-the-top, either carrying 21-foot samurai swords or leaping around like Spiderman with Warp Spider exarch blades on their forearms. I'm pleased to see GW exercise a bit of restraint with weapons that are only slightly oversized.
Actually I think a form of double handed power sword might have looked better for Eldar given how their other swords borrow from samurai sword shapes or curved sabers. I retract the earlier sentence after seeing the sword armed Wratihblades
I get a Lychguard feeling from these Wraithblades. The Eldar had that pseudo-Egyptian flavor before the Necrons appeared, and both seem to fit that archetype of implacable advance, especially if they end up having some form of invulnerable save.
The flyers look boss to me Hope their rules make them playable (i.e. can they survive the new Tau Riptide and HYMP spam?) I was hoping that one of our flyers would be a troop transport tbh.
I think all the leaked pics suffer from very mediocre paintjobs. They should really hire their Golden Demon winners to paint their stuff for them.... The Wraithknight and Wraithguard especially have a very flat color scheme with little to no highlights. The bomber and the fighter look like they have been painted by 2 different people (bomber is clearly superior painting).
Once these things get painted properly I think they will really stand out more.
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