Those codices are like the Gellerpox Idontremember. Just stop-gaps until they re-release the SM and Chaos codex to put all of this there.
Or the Primaris and Deathguard mini-codices from DI. I still have those sitting around.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Odd that there is so much repetition amongst the Primaris side (six Scouty dudes, 2 sniper dudes and 2 grav chute dudes being the same bar different head sculpts) and none that I can see on the Chaos side.
SM probably have a duplicate sprue, while the CSM don't. I'd say 5 different sprues, 6 total. SM troops sprue (x2) and leader sprue, then Chaos with an obliterator and 5 marines on a sprue, with 2 different versions, and then the venomcrawler, sorcerer, and possessed on the third.
WhiteDog wrote: The Lt is such a knife master he has two knife and a little knife at his belt.
Spoiler:
Maybe someone put the knife on the wrong one ?
I'm not so sure the 'little knife' is a knife and not a badge denoting his proficiency at knife fighting...
I was thinking more of the two scabbards if thats what they are called or more rather hoping, ive not seen a model with two side by side before, but then again ive never seen a knife master either I guess.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Odd that there is so much repetition amongst the Primaris side (six Scouty dudes, 2 sniper dudes and 2 grav chute dudes being the same bar different head sculpts) and none that I can see on the Chaos side.
I'm beginning to think Chaos Marines is actually the full multi part kit.
Hope these marines get a multi part kit release. Don’t need to buy a box set just for the chaos dudes to sit in the box for years to come, but damn i want me some of these primaris.
Sod the leader and the flying water hose guys but the rest look good fun to play around with.
Wow...flying primaris with oversized galoshes wielding autocannons. That's the 40k miniatures equivalent of bad fan fiction. I hope someone ends up modelling a shark fin or head under each of them.
Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Warhammer 40,000 wrote: The models in THIS box are designed in a similar way to the models in Dark Imperium...
So I guess maybe they are simplified models rather than full kits? It's worth noting however that they keep slightly kinda/sorta answering different questions with different answers.
I.e. someone asked why Obliterators were only 2 in the box, they replied "we could only fit two in, there's not much room for their sprues".
JSG wrote: For those wondering about the exact nature of the sprues, GW just posted this on facebook.
Warhammer 40,000 Hey guys - well, THESE models are designed in a similar way to the ones in Dark Imperium... THESE ones, are...
And this is what I'm referring to.
That question was asked about not just the box, but rather a specific unit.
warboss wrote: Wow...flying primaris with oversized galoshes wielding autocannons. That's the 40k miniatures equivalent of bad fan fiction. I hope someone ends up modelling a shark fin or head under each of them.
But they have small wings on their feet! Ain't that the cutest?
warboss wrote: Wow...flying primaris with oversized galoshes wielding autocannons. That's the 40k miniatures equivalent of bad fan fiction. I hope someone ends up modelling a shark fin or head under each of them.
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Yeah, that was bothering me too. They rather look like having grav-chutes that Reivers also have when deep striking.
It limits their field of view to objects in the distance so they don't realize how ridiculous they actually look. IIRC from the leaked datasheets, they come with a new rule called "And They Shall Know No Shame".
Man what the heck is up with those unit sizes. 2 Possessed, 2 Oblits? Are starters with unit sizes that don't conform to matched play some new passive aggressive way they let competitive players know they're really not their preferred audience?
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Yeah, that was bothering me too. They rather look like having grav-chutes that Reivers also have when deep striking.
There's two vent-like thing in their back pack so there is a difference with Reavers (who only have normal backpack, and no wings on their legs). I guess the idea is that phobos armor, being light, doesn't need huge thrusters like Inceptors who are in gravis armor.
Also, this has been said already but to be more precise : The second sentence heavily implies multi part kits coming later.
This looks like a great money saver to me - I don't find either of the forces included compelling or interesting in the least. So I can safely let it pass on by. More power to those that like it. I think it has a bunch of over the top goofy models in it.
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
ETB sort of kills my desire to get this box. I like customization. And I was hoping for extra bits to modify other kits I have. So I will probably just hold off for now.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Quite certain there's a blurred chaos marine with a lascannon in the background in that video.
Havocs may be happening indeed.
I think the suppressors will have other weapon options when they finally get a kit. Some form of multi-launcher missile pack would be cool, like a cyclone missile launcher of sorts rule wise. Especially if you could choose missile ammo.
Reviers would fit so so so well with this force if they sorted out their rules/loadout. Those stub pistols with power knives would be awesome. or even a different form of chainsword that gave -1ap with additional attacks of normal chainsord.
Watched the video a couple of times, pretty certain there’s no models in it that aren’t in the box. Couldn’t see a lascannon anywhere. Where abouts do you see it?
In the background 7 or 8 second in on one of the platforms in the rear that is blurred. I say it's a lascannon as it doesn't have the underslung rail the autocannon has. If it isn't a lascannon, it is not actually attached to the mini and is part of the terrain but I can't see how it would be.
If you are talking about this guy, it's not a Lascannon, it's a chainsword.
You can see it's the same guy with a very slightly lower angle.
Crimson wrote: Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Anti grav assisted is probably a lot quiter than the full turbines Inceptors use. While it wont make any difference once the shooting starts, it does fit with the Vanguards recon/comando background.
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Inceptors are in Gravis Armor, and have a rule that makes them do mortal wound on charge to represent the massive power of their thrusters. Those guys are in phobos armor, the lighter of all mk X armor. Just totally different.
I wonder if they will make a new codex space marine or a codex vanguard. Because if they do make a new codex space marine, won't it means that they will have to create new dark angels, blood angels and space wolf codexes too ?
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Gravis Armor is thicc. Like, Terminator heavy. You need a lot more thrust power to move it.
Remember when you were 12 and that one guy that was a bit of a *** claimed all his Terminators had jump packs and heavy weapons.
That guy works for GW now as a model maker........
They have taken primaris and somehow added more dumb. The basic guys all look like their armour skipped leg day. Mr shouty stealth captain! The only passable model is the librarian, mainly because his cloth covers most of the dumb up.
The chaos guys on the other hand look Ok, but if blackstone fortress is any thing to go by they will all be out of scale with the rest of the chaos range.
While its disapointing(to me) that the Shadow Spear models are in the style of the Dark Imperium mono builds. If the follow up range of releases with there full kits are anything like what the Deathguard and Primaris got......
I will make use of both halves to expand my chaos marines and to get some allies for my custards, so I'm on board with the box set, but knowing they're easy build rather than the normal kits does make me feel a little robbed daft as it sounds?
Price lists will go to retailers in the next day or 2 but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't £95 like the other box sets
Speaking for myself:
This set really had better be cheaper than the other "Battlebox" boxed sets. Those are full kits at a discounted price, rather than what we now have been told is all Dark Imperium style simplified builds with 0 options.
$130 is, IMO, around what this one should sit at. Same price as Killteam and Rogue Trader are. $160 for this would feel a bit too much considering it's not full kits, there's no full rulebook for 40k in there, etc.
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Inceptors are in Gravis Armor, and have a rule that makes them do mortal wound on charge to represent the massive power of their thrusters. Those guys are in phobos armor, the lighter of all mk X armor. Just totally different.
I wonder if they will make a new codex space marine or a codex vanguard. Because if they do make a new codex space marine, won't it means that they will have to create new dark angels, blood angels and space wolf codexes too ?
Crimson wrote: Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Anti grav assisted is probably a lot quiter than the full turbines Inceptors use. While it wont make any difference once the shooting starts, it does fit with the Vanguards recon/comando background.
Inceptors drop in from orbit (metoric descent), are in gravis armour and I would assume loud as f__k. Reivers drop out of overlords in atmosphere (apparently Valkyries, wtfGW), the extra shielding on the head of the inceptors is to mitigate heat buildup during trans-atmospheric entry.
Suppressors just use the grav chutes and and antigravitic plates to maneuver quietly into position and stabilize the gun for more accurate shots.
I really like the poses and am looking forward to using both this box and eventual full kits. I'm only really worried about the eliminators for changing poses, I really hope there is a marine in the prone position.
The chaos stuff is cool and I may hold onto the minis until I know what happens with the (hopeful) IIIrd legion stuff.
MajorWesJanson wrote: All they need to do is throw in some dice, and a rule pack, and it is just a replacement for DI
Not really, though. The 2 army boxes have come with just the same short rules you can download for free. While we can debate the usefulness of the hardcover rulebook, you kind of need the army building and scenario rules in it, and by default the Dark Imperium box. Sets like Tooth & Claw and Wake the Dead were not really true beginner sets. You only got the short rules there. This set needs to have a full rulebook to rival Dark Imperium.
WhiteDog wrote: I wonder if they will make a new codex space marine or a codex vanguard. Because if they do make a new codex space marine, won't it means that they will have to create new dark angels, blood angels and space wolf codexes too ?
Hard to say. Including the BA, SW and DA chapter tactics wouldn't be much of a problem. Stuff like relics, and stratagems would take up a lot of space. Although they could always include only Primaris specific ones and then say refer to the relevant chapter book for a expanded selection.
The Death Watch's mixed squads would be more of a problem though.
warboss wrote: Wow...flying primaris with oversized galoshes wielding autocannons. That's the 40k miniatures equivalent of bad fan fiction. I hope someone ends up modelling a shark fin or head under each of them.
Crimson wrote: Right. I think I'll have to wait to see what's in the multipart kits then. I have nothing against ETB models per se, DI ones were perfectly fine, it is just that I want to know whether the full kits have some gear options or cool bits I'd rather have.
Also, it seems super weird to me that Suppressors are full jump troops with fly, as the models do not really seem to have proper thrusters unlike all other marine jump troops.
Technically, all Marine power armour from MkII onwards have thrusters- that is what the spheres on each side the power packs are. However, they are usually only powerful enough for use in void operations.
But these guys have antigrav gear, so the pack thrusters should be sufficient?
Then why the hell do Inceptors have a giant-ass rockets bolted on their back then?
Inceptors are in Gravis Armor, and have a rule that makes them do mortal wound on charge to represent the massive power of their thrusters. Those guys are in phobos armor, the lighter of all mk X armor. Just totally different.
I wonder if they will make a new codex space marine or a codex vanguard. Because if they do make a new codex space marine, won't it means that they will have to create new dark angels, blood angels and space wolf codexes too ?
Yeah, mini dexes like the ones in Kill Team Rogue Trader - covering only the models given, built exactly as shown, with no options or other unit sizes possible beyond precisely what they give you in the box.
Probably about £95, same as Dark Imperium. I mean the Primaris seem to fit this bill easily - 10 Troops (Intercessors/Infiltrators), a unit of jump pack guys (Inceptors/Suppressors), long ranged heavy firepower (Hellblasters/Eliminators), a Captain, a Lieutenant, and a support character (Librarian/Ancient).
There are less Primaris (no second Lieutenant, and two fewer Eliminators) but I imagine that's because the Chaos side is larger.
Tamereth wrote:They have taken primaris and somehow added more dumb. The basic guys all look like their armour skipped leg day.
Because it's armour designed for mobility and stealth? I don't see the issue with it.
Mr shouty stealth captain!
Because battles never escalate, and there's never any situation for a leader to shout orders during a battle.
From how I see it, the whole "stealth" part of these guys is them getting into position, and *maybe* in how they fight ambushes and smaller skirmishes. This battle here, with the enemy leader of this world, and a Daemon engine in tow, is not that, and it's totally likely that Acheran may need to shout mid-firefight.
Invul wrote:It’s nice to see some black guys painted up among those Primaris. I count three.
Agreed. I've noticed non-white popping up more and more in GW's paint schemes, and I must say, about time. Good on you, whoever's painting them.
MajorWesJanson wrote:All they need to do is throw in some dice, and a rule pack, and it is just a replacement for DI
It literally is. I don't understand why people were expecting anything other than that. All this complaining of monopose, even though big packs like these have been monopose for decades, is baffling.
Ordana wrote:Scroll down.
The Daemonkin and Vanguard "codexes" aren't full codexes. They're more like the starter ones that we also got in Dark Imperium - they won't be standalone forces, but rather the minimum amount necessary to add these guys into your existing armies. There may be an update to the codexes soon, but these won't be full armies in their own right (aka, there won't be a difference between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Vanguard. Van will just be an update to Space Marines)
Price lists will go to retailers in the next day or 2 but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't £95 like the other box sets
Speaking for myself:
This set really had better be cheaper than the other "Battlebox" boxed sets. Those are full kits at a discounted price, rather than what we now have been told is all Dark Imperium style simplified builds with 0 options.
$130 is, IMO, around what this one should sit at. Same price as Killteam and Rogue Trader are. $160 for this would feel a bit too much considering it's not full kits, there's no full rulebook for 40k in there, etc.
That is kinda the conclusion I came to. Looking at the contents, I really want the CSM. I like the Oblitrators and the Master of Possession but only enough as to influence picking up a boxed set. The Vemon Crawler and Possessed are a nice addition but nothing I would generally want. The Space Marine side has even less that I really want. There decent bit that would work well expand my Raptor Chapter, but there is a lot of repeats and even some, frankly, embarrassing looking models in there that I don't know if I could bring them out in public.
I think $130 US is a good price for the set and an easy purchase from me. I figure $150 US with a decent discount is my limit which basically brings it back to $130 again. If it goes for $160, I'm out. I will wait for potential separate kits of just the stuff I really want. After all, there is more CSM coming out that will get added to the painting pile. I do get the feeling that GW think the anticipation of the set is going to allow them to charge DI prices given all the books (edit: booklets) in it. I don't know if that is really going to work out for them. I could easily see this box set not doing well at that price point where I might find a decent deal in late November which is what I probably will do if it is $160.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: From how I see it, the whole "stealth" part of these guys is them getting into position, and *maybe* in how they fight ambushes and smaller skirmishes. This battle here, with the enemy leader of this world, and a Daemon engine in tow, is not that, and it's totally likely that Acheran may need to shout mid-firefight.
But do they stealthily shoot bolters at their opponent, stealthy splattering the surroundings with the blood of their enemies when the bolts stealthy explodes inside of people's body, with stealth ?
Right, Not sure about the full box set but I will look into get the Primaris half and the spider. Models look great and I need these to bump my Spacewolves and Deathguard.
Primaris look to be gearing towards Infantry only armies though.
I wonder how many Primaris points you would get from Dark Imperium plus this box set. Building armies dont cost that much if you can get them in with these deals.
The suppressors look ridiculous. Everything else is fantastic... If I were to buy into the Primaris thing at this point, it would be for a Vanguard/Reiver force.
The Chaos lot is pretty sweet, too. Love those Possessed.
Hmmm... I don't see the traitor marine leak-previewed with the drum fed auto gun (image 2 in the op), so assume this will feature in the multipart kit box?
MajorWesJanson wrote:All they need to do is throw in some dice, and a rule pack, and it is just a replacement for DI
It literally is. I don't understand why people were expecting anything other than that. All this complaining of monopose, even though big packs like these have been monopose for decades, is baffling.
Ordana wrote:Scroll down.
The Daemonkin and Vanguard "codexes" aren't full codexes. They're more like the starter ones that we also got in Dark Imperium - they won't be standalone forces, but rather the minimum amount necessary to add these guys into your existing armies. There may be an update to the codexes soon, but these won't be full armies in their own right (aka, there won't be a difference between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Vanguard. Van will just be an update to Space Marines)
However, for decades they have, all last year the boxes that they said this is like (Forgebane etc), were not like it.
So can quite see why it was unknow in this case.
I’m not sure they’d update the books soon as you’d get these codexes that would Bolt to your current one really.
If it wasn’t for the fact that SM seems to be in need of one and has had potential rumours of getting one soon, then I’d say they just leave it and you buy this box to get the models and rules, with it saying change <....> to your faction or something.
Only thing throwing that off is if they release multi part later, would each data sheet just say usable with x,y,z codexes without breaking the single faction rule thing people bang on about.. (I don’t do tournaments etc so I forget what it’s called.. battle forged?)
It's easier than that, they just need to add the keywords Adeptus Astartes and <chapter> and they can be used in any SM detachment as any other unit, as they would be the same faction.
However, I expect special rules inthose codexes for only vanguard detachments.
MajorWesJanson wrote:All they need to do is throw in some dice, and a rule pack, and it is just a replacement for DI
It literally is. I don't understand why people were expecting anything other than that. All this complaining of monopose, even though big packs like these have been monopose for decades, is baffling.
Ordana wrote:Scroll down.
The Daemonkin and Vanguard "codexes" aren't full codexes. They're more like the starter ones that we also got in Dark Imperium - they won't be standalone forces, but rather the minimum amount necessary to add these guys into your existing armies. There may be an update to the codexes soon, but these won't be full armies in their own right (aka, there won't be a difference between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Vanguard. Van will just be an update to Space Marines)
However, for decades they have, all last year the boxes that they said this is like (Forgebane etc), were not like it.
So can quite see why it was unknow in this case.
I’m not sure they’d update the books soon as you’d get these codexes that would Bolt to your current one really.
If it wasn’t for the fact that SM seems to be in need of one and has had potential rumours of getting one soon, then I’d say they just leave it and you buy this box to get the models and rules, with it saying change <....> to your faction or something.
Only thing throwing that off is if they release multi part later, would each data sheet just say usable with x,y,z codexes without breaking the single faction rule thing people bang on about.. (I don’t do tournaments etc so I forget what it’s called.. battle forged?)
All those units have the keyword phobos and they say that there are new warlord traits in the mini codexes. This makes me think that vanguard units are not just new units but might also be played separatly as allies to normal space marine ? I don't know
The Infiltrators are great! Love the helmets, love the bolters, love the antennas all over the place. The lieutenant is also great. Suppressors are.. a little silly, but still cool.
It's a shame that three man squads like the Suppressors and Eliminators only get two poses. Would be nice if all the members of a three man squad would be unique. Oh well, might be separate kits in the future with more posability.
Those new flying primaris are just..... yikes. I didn’t think it was possible, but they’re even uglier than the previous flying primaris.
At least the normal ground guys look okayish. The legs of their armor look like the designers watched all three Iron Man movies back to back and decided that’s what scout armor should look like though.
The Librarian would be great if his right arm were doing anything other than tipping a hat that isn’t there. Sucks they had to be stupid and prevent a simple kitbash by giving him leather gloves instead normal primaris armor gauntlets. It’s not like wearing them will let him channel his powers better or be more dexterous/skilled with his blade, so what’s the point?
At least the chaos side is a near total win model wise. The Obliterators are a tad goofy looking, but everything else is choice. Bad rules be damned, I’m running that crawler for fun.
Dark Imperium and its subsequent mini-lings were easy to build because they were starter boxes, etc. The additional mini-boxes were also easy-to-build, etc. Also understandable. We can assume for a while that the DI box will continue to be the main rulebook/starter box. As mentioned all of the other combo-boxes have been collections of newish full kits sold at a discount and for a short limited time.
This doesn't fit into the mold. Most of these kits will "likely" get a proper full multi-part kits, which means GW is making duplicate models for a lot of random units. So if this box doesn't hang around for a while, it seems a bizarre investment. I don't see the point in GW releasing a nearly duplicate range of easy-to-build kits alongside normal kits. That's an expensive redundancy even if they think it'll attract a few buyers for being $5-10 cheaper, etc. This box would have made sense had it replaced DI, come with a softbound rulebook (preferably in two parts, rules and fluff), dice, rulers, etc.
As it stands - I don't get it. The characters etc. make sense, they'll be clam-packed. While I don't collect much modern 40K I hope it's not a heavier swing in the direction of removing actual multi-option kits. I just don't understand the thinking and placement of this box in the 40K market right now. It'll obviously sell a bajillion copies, but then what? Will you actually see the mono-pose Chaos marine squad in a box for $35 while a new Chaos marine multi-part kit comes out for $55? I dunno. Seems very odd. Unless GW simply thinks they'll make enough off this box in six months to ditch it and some of its sculpts (feasible).
I see this kind of boxes as a way to add more and interesting poses for my miniatures, because monopose models have poses that can't be easely replicated with the multipart boxes.
Also for the characters that are normally exclusive.
And also because with the new style of boxes, for example, with the 7 plague marines of DI and the 3 Easy to Build ones those are 10 extra sculpts for a unit that if you only buy the proper multipart box become repetitive very fast.
Danny76 wrote: I think this will be around a while, as this campaigns ticks over..
But I wouldn’t be surprised if these are characters all on the sprues mixed with the units etc, like DI.
And likewise, these kits may (will) not come out as an ETB or anything, just like the DI, or DV before, didn’t come out as sets..
Therefore making the full kits more feasible when they come..
Surely that makes these kits a waste of design time and the cost of the molds? Just put multi part in and have done, then resell them later as separate kits.
I don't know how I feel about this box. There's some models I love and some I don't. I really want that librarian and the Infiltrator with the smoke grenade is awesome.
But I was not a huge fan of the inceptors from that box. I found their poses a little awkward. And it seems to be a similar situation with the suppressors.
I want bits of the box but not the whole thing. We still can't get a gravis captain or an ancient unless we get DI box
warboss wrote: Wow...flying primaris with oversized galoshes wielding autocannons. That's the 40k miniatures equivalent of bad fan fiction. I hope someone ends up modelling a shark fin or head under each of them.
Only superficially IMO so much so that I didn't make the connection despite being intoduced to roleplaying games with Rifts and playing it exclusively for almost a decade.
totalfailure wrote: Yeah, mini dexes like the ones in Kill Team Rogue Trader - covering only the models given, built exactly as shown, with no options or other unit sizes possible beyond precisely what they give you in the box.
totalfailure wrote: Yeah, mini dexes like the ones in Kill Team Rogue Trader - covering only the models given, built exactly as shown, with no options or other unit sizes possible beyond precisely what they give you in the box.
Welcome to the Games Workshop HHHobby.
It is what has kept me from really jumping in with Primaris Marines.
I like them, but the lack of customization and just about any options makes them less appealing then they should be?
I was hoping that GW would open this all up - and give them a viable Rhino equivalent - soon, but that doesn't appear to be the case?
And maybe I'm missing something (probably, as I'm not much of an actual 4oK gamer anymore), but Primaris don't appear to be too competitive either.
Granted, for as much love as Marines get, and have gotten for some time now, they've never been that competitive, outside of the specialist chapters like the Wolves or the Blood Angels.
I like the models, generally speaking. I should be careful what I wish for on new oblits... They are fluffed as having fleshmetal where there is no difference between the organic and mechanical whereas these miniatures have very clear distinction between those areas, for the most part. Fortunately a little bit of green stuff and a different paint setup will go a long way.
I almost wonder if the box will at least have head options. The two non-sergeant Eliminators have different heads, but the same body. So there is probably two different heads for them to choose from, since they are likely on duplicate sprues. So that might make the Eliminators okay for me.
So I am probably going to pick up the SM half on eBay, but leave the heads off the guys without helmets until the regular kits come out. That way I can put real heads on them, since the kits tend to come with extras anyway.
Dark Imperium and its subsequent mini-lings were easy to build because they were starter boxes, etc. The additional mini-boxes were also easy-to-build, etc. Also understandable. We can assume for a while that the DI box will continue to be the main rulebook/starter box. As mentioned all of the other combo-boxes have been collections of newish full kits sold at a discount and for a short limited time.
This doesn't fit into the mold. Most of these kits will "likely" get a proper full multi-part kits, which means GW is making duplicate models for a lot of random units. So if this box doesn't hang around for a while, it seems a bizarre investment. I don't see the point in GW releasing a nearly duplicate range of easy-to-build kits alongside normal kits. That's an expensive redundancy even if they think it'll attract a few buyers for being $5-10 cheaper, etc. This box would have made sense had it replaced DI, come with a softbound rulebook (preferably in two parts, rules and fluff), dice, rulers, etc.
As it stands - I don't get it. The characters etc. make sense, they'll be clam-packed. While I don't collect much modern 40K I hope it's not a heavier swing in the direction of removing actual multi-option kits. I just don't understand the thinking and placement of this box in the 40K market right now. It'll obviously sell a bajillion copies, but then what? Will you actually see the mono-pose Chaos marine squad in a box for $35 while a new Chaos marine multi-part kit comes out for $55? I dunno. Seems very odd. Unless GW simply thinks they'll make enough off this box in six months to ditch it and some of its sculpts (feasible).
The thing that I keep coming to is that this might be related to their Start Collecting set price adjustments and a mention(offhandedly) that was made about trying to make things more accessible.
Something like this would allow for a Start Collecting set down the line. If you look at AoS, the previous starter set has since been turned into two Start Collecting sets that were immune to the price bumps(Goreblade Warband and Thunderstrike Brotherhood sets in case you're interested). We'll have to wait and see the sprue breakdowns on Shadowspear but I would be surprised if they have the units mixed on it.
If this truly is a new subfaction within a Codex as a whole and not a new book entirely? These setups would allow for existing players to expand in a pretty quick manner without it potentially being too stressful for their production+distribution side of things as people wouldn't have to go for the full kits if they just wanted 'the basics'.
I like the Suppressors. They look goofy but IMO that's what makes them awesome, marines with zogging full length autocannons dropping out of the sky to make stuff go boom. Definitely going to get a spot in my Space Wolves army because it seems like such a deliciously wolfy thing to do. And with Keen Senses they can stay mobile too unless somehow a 10 foot autocannon is classified as assault now and everyone can do that.
warboss wrote: Wow...flying primaris with oversized galoshes wielding autocannons. That's the 40k miniatures equivalent of bad fan fiction. I hope someone ends up modelling a shark fin or head under each of them.
Spoiler:
this has to be some of the worst minis that GW has put out in quite a while. So ridiculous
warboss wrote: Wow...flying primaris with oversized galoshes wielding autocannons. That's the 40k miniatures equivalent of bad fan fiction. I hope someone ends up modelling a shark fin or head under each of them.
Spoiler:
this has to be some of the worst minis that GW has put out in quite a while. So ridiculous
It is a pity they wern't armed with multilasers though...
Pandabeer wrote: I like the Suppressors. They look goofy but IMO that's what makes them awesome, marines with zogging full length autocannons dropping out of the sky to make stuff go boom. Definitely going to get a spot in my Space Wolves army because it seems like such a deliciously wolfy thing to do. And with Keen Senses they can stay mobile too unless somehow a 10 foot autocannon is classified as assault now and everyone can do that.
I thought the whole thing with the Wolves is they like to have their feet on thr ground - well unless they are riding stupid sleds or giant wolfy wolf wolves,
I really wish the new stealths marines had been done in Rave Guard colours and/or even shock horror cameoline coated armour.
Most of the new marines look really good, well except for Mr Shouty Stealth Captain.
As others have said the floating autocannon snipers are very SAMAS looking - not a bad thing - they are a million times better than Centurions or Grey Knight Baby Carriers.
Hate the russian Doll Oblits but rest of the Chaos Stuff looks good.
Part of me hates them. Part of me loves them. In the grim darkness of my hobby brain, there is only war. Lose the moon shoes and it's almost enough to save them for me. Almost.
The thing that I keep coming to is that this might be related to their Start Collecting set price adjustments and a mention(offhandedly) that was made about trying to make things more accessible.
Something like this would allow for a Start Collecting set down the line. If you look at AoS, the previous starter set has since been turned into two Start Collecting sets that were immune to the price bumps(Goreblade Warband and Thunderstrike Brotherhood sets in case you're interested). We'll have to wait and see the sprue breakdowns on Shadowspear but I would be surprised if they have the units mixed on it.
If this truly is a new subfaction within a Codex as a whole and not a new book entirely? These setups would allow for existing players to expand in a pretty quick manner without it potentially being too stressful for their production+distribution side of things as people wouldn't have to go for the full kits if they just wanted 'the basics'.
Hopefully your on to something here. Just the CSM side at a SC price point would certainly tempt me.
-Would be very surprised if this box is less expensive than DI
-in the last few monoposed boxes GW released. one or two units never got a full kit afterward. If the trend continues, my money is on the venomcrawler
I feel like the Venomcrawler will be just like the Blight Drone in DI. We've already seen a leg and possible back gun for it teased in the rumor engine, so if we don't get something similar released separately, I'll be surprised.
The Suppressors certainly look goofier than I imagined, but having examined the pictures, I am pretty confident that I can make them look cool by altering the pose and having them stand on the ground. Requires cutting up the legs from several joints, but it should work.
The shouty Captain is silly. The knifey Lt is very cool looking. He's probably super-jealous of the Captain and his proper knife. The Libby remains one of the best minis GW have made in ages. The Suppressors would be fine if they were standing on the ground. As goofy flying Marines they just don't work. The Infiltrators, they're aiight I 'spose. Shame that they are a bunch of duplicate poses though. Eliminators are cool looking. Shame there are only 3 of them.
Chaos:
Daemon Summoner guy is fine as far as Sorcerers go. 'Least he's plastic. Primaris Greater Possessed are just bizarre. Rando single Possessed not-quite character minis that run around by themselves? The Chaos Marines are very pretty with zero duplicates and zero variety. Autocannon's very chunky. Can't wait to see a real kit. Venomcrawler is nice. Presumably there will be a real kit for it as well. Oblits... *sigh* man I was hoping for 3. I really like them, but they are push-fit and there are two of them. Who knows if we'll get a proper box with 1-3 of them later down the line.
And I'd be surprised if this box isn't the same cost as the regular full-kit battle-boxes even though it should be cheaper than DI.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I like the models, generally speaking. I should be careful what I wish for on new oblits... They are fluffed as having fleshmetal where there is no difference between the organic and mechanical whereas these miniatures have very clear distinction between those areas, for the most part. Fortunately a little bit of green stuff and a different paint setup will go a long way.
I find the clear distinction between the flesh and armour really distracting. I bet they would look much better were they painted in uniform colour. Same with the Possessed.
Yeah, those heavy weapons will look much better when well braced on the ground.
Anyway, I really like the CSM, the Primaris troops and the Librarian. Crawler and Primaris commander are okay, though I'll say that it's nice to see a demon engine that kinda looks like an engine. Possessed are... better than the current ones, but still not where they should be. The Oblis are... salvageable I guess, once I remove all that silly flesh and replace it with mechanical parts.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I like the models, generally speaking. I should be careful what I wish for on new oblits... They are fluffed as having fleshmetal where there is no difference between the organic and mechanical whereas these miniatures have very clear distinction between those areas, for the most part. Fortunately a little bit of green stuff and a different paint setup will go a long way.
I find the clear distinction between the flesh and armour really distracting. I bet they would look much better were they painted in uniform colour. Same with the Possessed.
I think this is just the typical GW studio style of highlighting all the details to potential buyers, even if the model looks worse overall because of it.
I can't wait to see some examples from the community.
I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.
I think they're supposed to be a parallel to Scouts, and Scouts were never very Gothic. Stick some purity seals on them, add a reliquary here and there and they won't feel so clean any more.
Dark Imperium and its subsequent mini-lings were easy to build because they were starter boxes, etc. The additional mini-boxes were also easy-to-build, etc. Also understandable. We can assume for a while that the DI box will continue to be the main rulebook/starter box. As mentioned all of the other combo-boxes have been collections of newish full kits sold at a discount and for a short limited time.
This doesn't fit into the mold. Most of these kits will "likely" get a proper full multi-part kits, which means GW is making duplicate models for a lot of random units. So if this box doesn't hang around for a while, it seems a bizarre investment. I don't see the point in GW releasing a nearly duplicate range of easy-to-build kits alongside normal kits. That's an expensive redundancy even if they think it'll attract a few buyers for being $5-10 cheaper, etc. This box would have made sense had it replaced DI, come with a softbound rulebook (preferably in two parts, rules and fluff), dice, rulers, etc.
As it stands - I don't get it. The characters etc. make sense, they'll be clam-packed. While I don't collect much modern 40K I hope it's not a heavier swing in the direction of removing actual multi-option kits. I just don't understand the thinking and placement of this box in the 40K market right now. It'll obviously sell a bajillion copies, but then what? Will you actually see the mono-pose Chaos marine squad in a box for $35 while a new Chaos marine multi-part kit comes out for $55? I dunno. Seems very odd. Unless GW simply thinks they'll make enough off this box in six months to ditch it and some of its sculpts (feasible).
The thing that I keep coming to is that this might be related to their Start Collecting set price adjustments and a mention(offhandedly) that was made about trying to make things more accessible.
Something like this would allow for a Start Collecting set down the line. If you look at AoS, the previous starter set has since been turned into two Start Collecting sets that were immune to the price bumps(Goreblade Warband and Thunderstrike Brotherhood sets in case you're interested). We'll have to wait and see the sprue breakdowns on Shadowspear but I would be surprised if they have the units mixed on it.
If this truly is a new subfaction within a Codex as a whole and not a new book entirely? These setups would allow for existing players to expand in a pretty quick manner without it potentially being too stressful for their production+distribution side of things as people wouldn't have to go for the full kits if they just wanted 'the basics'.
Yeah, and that - honestly, is the only thing I've seen put forward that makes sense. I don't think there's room for a large line of ETB compared to normal kits, but modified ETB start collecting boxes would make absolute sense (sadly I suspect it would not change the price tag!)
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.
A big part of that is painting. Imagine these with the cloaks painted as weathered leather, in dirty and battle-damaged armours with medieval heraldry. Black Templars or Howling Griffons. Ultramarine colour-scheme and modern camo-pattern are both good ways to make any model to look worse, and they have combined them here.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.
I think they're supposed to be a parallel to Scouts, and Scouts were never very Gothic. Stick some purity seals on them, add a reliquary here and there and they won't feel so clean any more.
The Space Marine scouts were never very gothic overall, but that wasn't really a problem because only had carapace armour, something that wasn't really a showcase of the Imperium's approach to technology. It's not just the lack of gothic details specifically with this power armour, it's that it's power armour that's been designed to look high-tech, advanced and sleek with a more realistic or grounded feel than usual, an idea that in itself clashes with the gothic nature.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I like the models, generally speaking. I should be careful what I wish for on new oblits... They are fluffed as having fleshmetal where there is no difference between the organic and mechanical whereas these miniatures have very clear distinction between those areas, for the most part. Fortunately a little bit of green stuff and a different paint setup will go a long way.
I find the clear distinction between the flesh and armour really distracting. I bet they would look much better were they painted in uniform colour. Same with the Possessed.
I think this is just the typical GW studio style of highlighting all the details to potential buyers, even if the model looks worse overall because of it.
I can't wait to see some examples from the community.
That is a very good point and improves my outlook considerably... if the flesh was painted like metal and the metal painted like flesh it would be a totally different model.
I don't see any "monastic, warrior-monks" in that set. How confusing.
Kanluwen wrote: This set really had better be cheaper than the other "Battlebox" boxed sets. Those are full kits at a discounted price, rather than what we now have been told is all Dark Imperium style simplified builds with 0 options.
$130 is, IMO, around what this one should sit at. Same price as Killteam and Rogue Trader are. $160 for this would feel a bit too much considering it's not full kits, there's no full rulebook for 40k in there, etc.
And when it costs as much as Wake the Claw or Tooth & Dead, what will you say then?
I really like the marines, but I’m not sold on the chaos half. I think the obliterators and possessed look terrible. I may be searching eBay for somebody selling the marine half of the box.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.
I think they're supposed to be a parallel to Scouts, and Scouts were never very Gothic. Stick some purity seals on them, add a reliquary here and there and they won't feel so clean any more.
The Space Marine scouts were never very gothic overall, but that wasn't really a problem because only had carapace armour, something that wasn't really a showcase of the Imperium's approach to technology. It's not just the lack of gothic details specifically with this power armour, it's that it's power armour that's been designed to look high-tech, advanced and sleek with a more realistic or grounded feel than usual, an idea that in itself clashes with the gothic nature.
I dont think the Power Armor ever really looked Gothic to begin with (baring a few Special Characters), it was always very plain and pseudo hightech with some purity seals slapped on it. Or in the case of most of the 4e sets I started with, had some Greco-Roman inspiration. I never really got the Gothic 'feel' of the armor until the started putting reliquaries and other random junk on everything. I prefer the Primaris going back to having less on them (in most cases).
I'm looking at the bolter guys and thinking it wouldn't be too surprising at this point if the next marine codex is Primaris only, but with a concurrent Chapter Approved article allowing you to add legacy wargear options to Vanguard units so people can run their Oldmarines as Vanguard.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't see any "monastic, warrior-monks" in that set. How confusing.
Kanluwen wrote: This set really had better be cheaper than the other "Battlebox" boxed sets. Those are full kits at a discounted price, rather than what we now have been told is all Dark Imperium style simplified builds with 0 options.
$130 is, IMO, around what this one should sit at. Same price as Killteam and Rogue Trader are. $160 for this would feel a bit too much considering it's not full kits, there's no full rulebook for 40k in there, etc.
And when it costs as much as Wake the Claw or Tooth & Dead, what will you say then?
I guarantee you that this will be more than DI and will go for $240-$260 AUD (DI was $220 AUD)
insaniak wrote: I'm looking at the bolter guys and thinking it wouldn't be too surprising at this point if the next marine codex is Primaris only, but with a concurrent Chapter Approved article allowing you to add legacy wargear options to Vanguard units so people can run their Oldmarines as Vanguard.
Well, the bolt carbines these guys have are literally Godwyn pattern bolters with some extra doodahs.
Awesome stuff all round I absolutely love everything in the set apart from the flying suppressors. I will definitely be doing what I did with my inceptors and have them on the ground.
The basic CSMs look fantastic. And I don't mind them being ETB, just as long as a proper multipart kit comes along eventually. They won't fit in with my existing Night Lords army (too much obvious Chaos iconography), but they're cool enough to get me to start a small Black Legion force.
The Obliterators, Venomcrawler and Suppressors are OK. The Suppressors are only useful to me if they can be Deathwatch, though, as my other SM army is strictly non-Primaris.
Unfortunately, I absolutely fething hate everything else. The Greater Possessed and Master of Possession look like especially goofy villains from a kid's cartoon. And the silly capris-and-sneakers legs on Phobos armour stray too far from the established SM aesthetic for me. I hate to sound like the Tau-haters from back in 3rd edition, but... Phobos-armoured Primaris just aren't Warhammer 40,000. They're some boring generic-sci-fi rubbish.
So I definitely won't be buying this box, but I will be picking up a few of the bits on ebay.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.
I think they're supposed to be a parallel to Scouts, and Scouts were never very Gothic. Stick some purity seals on them, add a reliquary here and there and they won't feel so clean any more.
The Space Marine scouts were never very gothic overall, but that wasn't really a problem because only had carapace armour, something that wasn't really a showcase of the Imperium's approach to technology. It's not just the lack of gothic details specifically with this power armour, it's that it's power armour that's been designed to look high-tech, advanced and sleek with a more realistic or grounded feel than usual, an idea that in itself clashes with the gothic nature.
I dont think the Power Armor ever really looked Gothic to begin with (baring a few Special Characters), it was always very plain and pseudo hightech with some purity seals slapped on it. Or in the case of most of the 4e sets I started with, had some Greco-Roman inspiration. I never really got the Gothic 'feel' of the armor until the started putting reliquaries and other random junk on everything. I prefer the Primaris going back to having less on them (in most cases).
I happen to think MKI, MKII, MKIII look very gothic. MKX armour has a couple nods to it but not really, it kinda is more Renaissance in feel.
That Supressor squad leader won't look as bad after swapping the head and pointing it in the right direction. I kind of like them. They use a Grav Chute but also have fly and move 12", I guess they hop like John Carter?
The SM officers have the same PL as the existing characters but with much less capability. Kind of a missed opportunity there as cheaper Primaris HQs would fill a new niche.
I could see myself using all the new units other than the Venomcrawler. For the characters, probably the psykers and none of the others. I really like the Infiltrator models.
I think they probably consider DI a loss leader and I am expecting this to be the same price.
I dont think the Power Armor ever really looked Gothic to begin with (baring a few Special Characters), it was always very plain and pseudo hightech with some purity seals slapped on it. Or in the case of most of the 4e sets I started with, had some Greco-Roman inspiration. I never really got the Gothic 'feel' of the armor until the started putting reliquaries and other random junk on everything. I prefer the Primaris going back to having less on them (in most cases).
It's kind of ironic that they only really started to sculpt marines to match the fluff comparatively shortly before deciding to squat them...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slowroll wrote: That Supressor squad leader won't look as bad after swapping the head and pointing it in the right direction. .
Yup, a slight repose to remove the flight stem, and they'll be fine...
I prefer the decreased about of bling and gothic on the marines myself. I started the game way back in second edition before that really started to creep so heavily into it, and it’s just been a long slow flanderization of their themes over the years. I appreciate them going back to the basics and cutting extraneous stuff off.
AduroT wrote: I prefer the decreased about of bling and gothic on the marines myself. I started the game way back in second edition before that really started to creep so heavily into it, and it’s just been a long slow flanderization of their themes over the years. I appreciate them going back to the basics and cutting extraneous stuff off.
I think there's room for both - 'clean' power armour does look awesome, but I'm also a fan of the Black Templar 'If you like it then you should have put a candle on it' approach to armour decor.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I almost wonder if the box will at least have head options. The two non-sergeant Eliminators have different heads, but the same body. So there is probably two different heads for them to choose from, since they are likely on duplicate sprues. So that might make the Eliminators okay for me.
So I am probably going to pick up the SM half on eBay, but leave the heads off the guys without helmets until the regular kits come out. That way I can put real heads on them, since the kits tend to come with extras anyway.
well if they're anything like the dark imperium minis it's childs play to swap differant heads on them. as they gave a depression for a standard Marine head.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I almost wonder if the box will at least have head options. The two non-sergeant Eliminators have different heads, but the same body. So there is probably two different heads for them to choose from, since they are likely on duplicate sprues. So that might make the Eliminators okay for me.
So I am probably going to pick up the SM half on eBay, but leave the heads off the guys without helmets until the regular kits come out. That way I can put real heads on them, since the kits tend to come with extras anyway.
well if they're anything like the dark imperium minis it's childs play to swap differant heads on them. as they gave a depression for a standard Marine head.
I'm sure but it almost seems like they might have the heads to do it in the Box itself rather than having to have me wait until the regular parts built kits come out so I can steal heads out of there. The Phobos helmets are need enough, so I don't want to end up putting regular mark teb helmets on them. I'm hoping that the infiltrator Sergeant has a helmet on his hip so I can cut that off and put it on his head.
GW has said themselves that the first waves of primaris will be much more plain to allow them to have room for more gothic and stylized primaris units and elite-chapter variants later on.
You can't ask for Sanguinary guard's gothic level in the basic primaris kits and then complaint when the proper elite-primaris are absolutely silly.
A basic bolter tactical marine isn't any less scify-looking than a Intercessor. Only the Darth Vader Helmet and the purity seals that you chose to put into him.
As Crimsom said, everything in clean, Ultramarine colors looks much more "sci-fi" or "infinity". Paint those same flying guys with autocannons in old gritty FW paintstyle and you'll see the inmense differente it makes.
Galas wrote: GW has said themselves that the first waves of primaris will be much more plain to allow them to have room for more gothic and stylized primaris units and elite-chapter variants later on.
You can't ask for Sanguinary guard's gothic level in the basic primaris kits and then complaint when the proper elite-primaris are absolutely silly.
A basic bolter tactical marine isn't any less scify-looking than a Intercessor. Only the Darth Vader Helmet and the purity seals that you chose to put into him.
As Crimsom said, everything in clean, Ultramarine colors looks much more "sci-fi" or "infinity". Paint those same flying guys with autocannons in old gritty FW paintstyle and you'll see the inmense differente it makes.
Also, the Chaos release is gonna be big
Yeah so many unanswered Daemon Engine pics. It's looking to be a full CSM reboot
Captain: I'll either give him a proper camoline like the Eliminators or just remove the cloak.
Librarian: I don't really like laced jerkin over his armor or the leather gloves; but its a really nice model with a good pose. He'll need some light conversion.
Suppressors: I like them but I'll using Aggressor torsos and legs instead.
Infiltrators: they look good so no problems in my book.
Eliminators: again they look great.
Chaos:
Daemon Summoner: too busy looking, and I don't run possessed so...
Greater Possessed: their both pretty ugly, but do fit with the current possessed models.
Chaos Marines: these are exactly what I was hoping for. Sadly, they'll probably just sit on the shelf since I don't take CSM any in my lists due to their rules.
Venomcrawler: I've never liked Daemon Engines, but at least its well done.
Obliterators: I have the same problem with these I do with Helbrutes; all the exposed flesh. But painting the fleshy bits dark might help though.
I'll probably just buy the Primaris half and a few sets of CSM off eBay.
Galas wrote: GW has said themselves that the first waves of primaris will be much more plain to allow them to have room for more gothic and stylized primaris units and elite-chapter variants later on.
You can't ask for Sanguinary guard's gothic level in the basic primaris kits and then complaint when the proper elite-primaris are absolutely silly.
A basic bolter tactical marine isn't any less scify-looking than a Intercessor. Only the Darth Vader Helmet and the purity seals that you chose to put into him.
As Crimsom said, everything in clean, Ultramarine colors looks much more "sci-fi" or "infinity". Paint those same flying guys with autocannons in old gritty FW paintstyle and you'll see the inmense differente it makes.
Also, the Chaos release is gonna be big
Yeah so many unanswered Daemon Engine pics. It's looking to be a full CSM reboot
LMAO this is a joke right? Like 5 new models. They are just releasing multiple pics of each model.
Galas wrote: GW has said themselves that the first waves of primaris will be much more plain to allow them to have room for more gothic and stylized primaris units and elite-chapter variants later on.
You can't ask for Sanguinary guard's gothic level in the basic primaris kits and then complaint when the proper elite-primaris are absolutely silly.
A basic bolter tactical marine isn't any less scify-looking than a Intercessor. Only the Darth Vader Helmet and the purity seals that you chose to put into him.
As Crimsom said, everything in clean, Ultramarine colors looks much more "sci-fi" or "infinity". Paint those same flying guys with autocannons in old gritty FW paintstyle and you'll see the inmense differente it makes.
Also, the Chaos release is gonna be big
Yeah so many unanswered Daemon Engine pics. It's looking to be a full CSM reboot
LMAO this is a joke right? Like 5 new models. They are just releasing multiple pics of each model.
Which is basically the entire range of old models that is in need of an update
Galas wrote: 5 new kits are: Havocs, Terminators, CSM, Possessed and you even have something else. And thats basically a reboot of the CSM range.
We don't know that for certain though.
I know, I know. I'm just saying that even if 3-4 of each pic is for one model, like one chaos terminator, one havoc, etc... those are enough unresolved rumor engine pics to be a good bunch of CSM kits.
Of course nuGW can make all of those to be instead single model kits for 30€ each with 0 options and screw us all over
5 new kits are: Havocs, Terminators, CSM, Possessed and you even have something else. And thats basically a reboot of the CSM range.
I'm still doubting the new possessed kit. Those two are characters, not actual possessed. Pretty sure they will be exclusive to this box, like dark imperium is the only box where you can buy a captain in gravis armor or the guy with the bell.
5 new kits are: Havocs, Terminators, CSM, Possessed and you even have something else. And thats basically a reboot of the CSM range.
I'm still doubting the new possessed kit. Those two are characters, not actual possessed. Pretty sure they will be exclusive to this box, like dark imperium is the only box where you can buy a captain in gravis armor or the guy with the bell.
I'm hoping we'll ALSO get a new posessed kit. but yeah the greater posessed I expect will be box exclusive
Galas wrote: GW has said themselves that the first waves of primaris will be much more plain to allow them to have room for more gothic and stylized primaris units and elite-chapter variants later on.
You can't ask for Sanguinary guard's gothic level in the basic primaris kits and then complaint when the proper elite-primaris are absolutely silly.
A basic bolter tactical marine isn't any less scify-looking than a Intercessor. Only the Darth Vader Helmet and the purity seals that you chose to put into him.
As Crimsom said, everything in clean, Ultramarine colors looks much more "sci-fi" or "infinity". Paint those same flying guys with autocannons in old gritty FW paintstyle and you'll see the inmense differente it makes.
Also, the Chaos release is gonna be big
Yeah so many unanswered Daemon Engine pics. It's looking to be a full CSM reboot
LMAO this is a joke right? Like 5 new models. They are just releasing multiple pics of each model.
Worst case scenario, those represent 4 new kits/models plus Abaddon (multipart CSM squad, Terminator squad, Sorceror/Dark apostle, some vehicle thing). It is possible they represent 5 or 6 kits/models. More is unrealistic though.
Galas wrote: Of course nuGW can make all of those to be instead single model kits for 30€ each with 0 options and screw us all over
We might get 6 vaguely similar Daemon Engine kits, all of which have zero options. Chaostober!!!
To be fair, the Ork vehicles were all pretty significantly different from each other. And all pretty awesome... And really, from a modeling point of view, having six different kits to play around with does arguably offer much more potential for tinkering than having one model with a few different weapons to switch in and out, since it gives you so much more raw material.
Galas wrote: Of course nuGW can make all of those to be instead single model kits for 30€ each with 0 options and screw us all over
We might get 6 vaguely similar Daemon Engine kits, all of which have zero options. Chaostober!!!
To be fair, the Ork vehicles were all pretty significantly different from each other. And all pretty awesome... And really, from a modeling point of view, having six different kits to play around with does arguably offer much more potential for tinkering than having one model with a few different weapons to switch in and out, since it gives you so much more raw material.
But then, if you think about it from a GW mould capacity perspective, instead of 6 unique buggies, they could've made one or two, plus a Tankbuster kit, Kommandos kit, and new Deffkoptas.
Don't get me wrong, I like the buggy options. But it is a shame they didn't use the release to clear out some finecast kits, and also a shame they didn't allow any options on the kits at all.
Infiltrators look cool too bad about the copy paste ones. The best model in the set is probably the one throwing a smoke grenade. Which is the only character in the GW line produced thus far that is throwing a live grenade. Great modelling opporunties on just that one character alone... ( have a squad of marines with special looking bolters and equipment just need to buff up their legs and bam got 10 more infilitrators)
Eliminators look great shame we don't have more options. (though my stalker armed camo cloaked marines now I can convert to look like this)
Suppressors look like they are bouncing up and down like kids. God they are the worst units in the set. Weapons are great though would've prefered a minigun.
Captain looks fines but I rather he have a power sword of some kind for defense. Once he gets into close combat he will just die. Weapon is okay but is heavy 1, camo cloak really makes him good though, but I wish we could get more for him or an another firing round with his weapon. Needs a helmet option.
Libarian as people have said one of the best models produced for Primaris... Period.
LT looks great, shame about the helmet and the triple knife.
Chaos so far I have no complaint I love every single model. And makes me excited to start my BLack Legion finally. I've been waiting for a rerelease and I was more eagerly awaiting chaos over space marines because of their look.
Chaos Marines : look great can't wait to see the real kit
Venom Crawler : Unique and fun, love the look hope it is more useful than a defiler. Would be cool if it had a squad protection aura of somekind
Obliterator : Looks incredible can't wait to have them and they are just an upgrade of older obliterators which is great, the older ones were just termies with some fleshy bits, now they are more terrifying.
Chaos Greater Possessed : Amazing and very cool looking models. Can't wait for the next set of them.
Master of the Possessed : Hope his disciplines are fun akin to buffing Possessed or summoning more of them. Hope we get to see more stellar models.
And on the topic of new chaos models. I cannot wait to see what is coming out next. Maybe Abaddon and some of his Bringers of Despair?
This box is definitely a hard pass from me, as too many of the models are extremely unappealing.
Vanguard Librarian: Fantastic, actually. The best model in the whole set by far. A lot of the ugliness and stupidity of the Phobos armour is covered up by his robes, the pose is surprisingly unique, and while they make no sense at all I actually like the leather gloves.
Captain ****wit: As a friend unkindly nicknamed him, and not without cause. Dreadful. While there are a lot of issues here, the main (and most damning) one is the legs and waist common to the Phobos armour, which are at their worst here. They have far too big a gap between them, making the legs look awkwardly attached like a shoddy action figure, and it makes the whole model look 'wrong'. It doesn't help that his pose is pretty uninspired and he's loaded down with a lot of excessive extras (like the servo skull-screen) for a supposed stealth operative.
Knife-tenant: Eh, he's ok. Doesn't appeal much to me but nowhere near as offensive as the captain. Just kind of dull, and shares a lot of the problems with...
Infiltrators: Putting aside the fact that I don't understand why these guys even exist (since Reivers seem to fill the same role?), these are awful. Not because they look bad per se, but they look generic, boring. Loaded down with 'realistic' combat gear that detracts from the Space Marine aesthetic and pulls them further away from it (and by that I don't mean being loaded down with skulls/purity seals/personal crotch reliquaries instead, either). They're just 'sci-fi soldiers', not recogniseable as the warrior-monks of a backward, theocratic Imperium, and the whole 'covert ops' schtick is better suited to the Imperial Guard, or at a stretch the Scouts/Eliminators.
Eliminators: Well, they're Primaris Scouts, which is not entirely unexpected. But it's not especially imaginative, either - thus far I had the impression that the Primaris equivalents of 'oldmarine' unit designations had a slightly different twist on them to help set them apart more. So the Helblasters, instead of being a mixed bag of heavy weapons like Devastators, were focused on a specific plasma weapon somewhere between the Gun and Cannon. Inceptors, unlike Assault Marines, were not focused on melee but instead on shooting. And Reivers (what I thought were the Primaris equivalent of Scouts) are more disruption and terror troops than recon or snipers.
All that aside, though, these actually look decent - the cloaks help cover up some of the idiocies of the armour, like with the Librarian, and for them at least some of the modern combat trappings make some more sense.
Suppressors: I liked the Inceptors, despite myself. They're a little dumb, and the guns were a bit oversized, but something about them kind of still worked. The Suppressors do not. At all. They are without doubt the worst models on the Vanguard side, and quite frankly look a complete joke. The fire hose comparison that has been made is all too accurate, they don't look capable of flight nor does anything about their posing suggest it, the guns are comically oversized, they still have the foot-stabilizer mechanisms despite being entirely not intended to come crashing meteorically down into the enemy, the sergeant is just kind of *floating there*, looking awkwardly in a different direction to his gun..the list is nigh endless. Not a single thing about these looks good, or fitting. Not a *single* thing.
Daemonkin Master of Possession: As comical as he is, I'm not entirely against flying, flaming Skeletor here. He's a decent enough Sorcerer, if one were to remove the excess torches from his backpack. Pretty good.
Greater Possessed: I am not a fan of these at all, and even more disappointed that they arnt a full unit of 'normal' Possessed (even though the current plastics are really good and don't exactly need replacing). In fairness, the shoulder-tackling one is just mediocre; inoffensive, just kind of 'meh', with a goofy face and oversized arms, but he could be salvaged with some conversion work. The other one is an abomination, and not in the way he should be. He's quite a remarkable step back towards the Gary Morley metal ones that people would rather forget, and there's really nothing good here that could be rescued. The pose is bad, the arms are bad, the armour-turning-into-a-sports-bra is bad. Rubbish.
Chaos Marines: Good, actually. Very much in the style of the Dark Vengeance Chosen, which is both a blessing and a curse. They look good, but are a little too 'gribbled' and ornate, which could make painting them something of a tricky chore for what are core troops. Though arguably Chaos Marines are far more intended to look this way than their Loyalist brethren, and the fact that no two models are duplicated (unlike the Infiltrators) is a big plus. Probably the overall winners of the box (since the Librarian is one superb model, while these are ten great ones).
Venomcrawler: A decent enough design idea, and very much an improvement over the Dinobots in terms of being a daemon engine...but at the same time, it's no Defiler (which, sans the goofy little head, is one of my favourite kits ever), and the face just isn't quite right, crossing that line from creepy into comical. I'd probably want to trim back on the spikes on it as well, since it already suffers from 'over-gribble'. Shame the rules seem a little underwhelming...
Obliterators: Oh dear sweet merciful lord, burn them with fire. Awful. Eye-offendingly awful, an affront to even the old metals (which weren't amazing) or the tons of third-party versions that exist. They've gone full "Helbrute" with these things, turning them from weapon-mutated Terminators into dumb, idiotically hulking monsters more reminiscent of the godawful Centurions than their own design origin. Their armour contrasts far too much with the 'fleshy' parts (not just the paintjob, either), completely breaking down the meshing of the two that is *supposed* to be their entire design premise, instead looking like space Ogres with ill-fitting chunks of armour on. The guns look entirely tacked on and unintegrated, and they've got the ****ing stupid 'head inside a mouth' rubbish that the "Helbrute" (can you tell I refuse to call Chaos Dreadnoughts by that name in polite conversation?) does. I *hate* them utterly, and find them the worst models not just on the Chaos side, but in the whole damn box.
Overall, ithis set is not something worth throwing down even half (by splitting with a friend) of the asking price for.
All I'm saying is don't get your hopes up, because you will probably find them dashed on the rocks.
Hell when I saw 2 spells from Malefic Discipline, my immediate thought was "Did they recycle 6 old spells or actually create new ones?"
The simple fact is when something is good and you know it you don't hype it up because you don't need to, it will sell because its it's good. When something kinda sucks you post 30 pictures of pieces of the models to make it seem like your releasing a bunch of stuff when in all actuality your releasing 4 new kits. Which can't really be used as dual kits because all the heavy weapons are the same pose, or the model doesn't have a mirror kit.
Galas wrote: Whats up with everybody doing unit per unit review of the models? Have I miss something?
I did it mostly as a joke
But i think it is because everyone wants to review it in some capacity though the myraids of people here its bound to happen.
Nothing wrong with it.
We could do a voting forum if we want to see what is the most liked models. (not a dakka forum but like a survey monkey or something) and everyone here would probably love that.
Not convinced the new Oblits are better. Even with +1T, +1W and 6 shots, it looks like they're also substantially more expensive.
I've seen a leak of the datasheet and they are Power Level 6 for 1 Oblit.
That's right, you can take them in units of 1 again. But they've got to be close to twice the cost not considering the were PL10 for 3 model.
At PL6 per model, they've got to be at least 110-125ppm.
Galef wrote: Not convinced the new Oblits are better. Even with +1T, +1W and 6 shots, it looks like they're also substantially more expensive.
I've seen a leak of the datasheet and they are Power Level 6 for 1 Oblit.
That's right, you can take them in units of 1 again. But they've got to be close to twice the cost not considering the were PL10 for 3 model.
At PL6 per model, they've got to be at least 110-125ppm.
-
I think their place will change from "Drop a unit of 9 and kill whatever you are shooting at" to maybe a couple of units of 1 to drop, kill something weaker and then cap objetives or something.
Will they be good enough at that? We'll see. But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.
But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.
While Power levels have become skewed with points changes, particularly on units with options and thus variable points costs, I genuinely cannot think of a unit with a set points cost (i.e. with either no options, or options that all cost the same) that doesn't come within 10-15 points of its Power Level x20.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but PL6 on a model without varying options has a VERY good chance of being 110-130pts
That's why I truly think this change to Oblits is a nerf mascarading as a buff. I think they'll still be good units with really cool models that have lots of conversion opportunities, but they won't be showing up in top tourney Chaos lists anymore
Galef wrote: Not convinced the new Oblits are better. Even with +1T, +1W and 6 shots, it looks like they're also substantially more expensive.
I've seen a leak of the datasheet and they are Power Level 6 for 1 Oblit.
That's right, you can take them in units of 1 again. But they've got to be close to twice the cost not considering the were PL10 for 3 model.
At PL6 per model, they've got to be at least 110-125ppm.
-
I think their place will change from "Drop a unit of 9 and kill whatever you are shooting at" to maybe a couple of units of 1 to drop, kill something weaker and then cap objetives or something.
Will they be good enough at that? We'll see. But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.
Problem is we don't know the Malefic powers, if we knew what they were we could probably have a better answer. I do agree they will probably not be a suicide unit any more.
They are PL 6 which which from a PPM perspective means average 120 and ranges from 110 to 129. So they will probably be around that. Yes, Helbrutes cost about the same, but they lack the Daemon keyword, can't DS, get half the shots, are harder to stick in cover, and have Heavy Weapons.
But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.
While Power levels have become skewed with points changes, particularly on units with options and thus variable points costs, I genuinely cannot think of a unit with a set points cost (i.e. with either no options, or options that all cost the same) that doesn't come within 10-15 points of its Power Level x20.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but PL6 on a model without varying options has a VERY good chance of being 110-130pts
That's why I truly think this change to Oblits is a nerf mascarading as a buff. I think they'll still be good units with really cool models that have lots of conversion opportunities, but they won't be showing up in top tourney Chaos lists anymore
-
Most of the Admech book is way off the 15-20pt power limit. Granted most of them have changed price. Acolytes though in the most recent book are 11.66pts per PL. Neophytes are 12.5pts per PL. They seem to flex from 10-20pts per PL which is pretty broad. If we're sitting at 75-80pts per oblit we'll be good. If not then the unit won't see much play.
But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.
While Power levels have become skewed with points changes, particularly on units with options and thus variable points costs, I genuinely cannot think of a unit with a set points cost (i.e. with either no options, or options that all cost the same) that doesn't come within 10-15 points of its Power Level x20.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but PL6 on a model without varying options has a VERY good chance of being 110-130pts
That's why I truly think this change to Oblits is a nerf mascarading as a buff. I think they'll still be good units with really cool models that have lots of conversion opportunities, but they won't be showing up in top tourney Chaos lists anymore
-
Most of the Admech book is way off the 15-20pt power limit. Granted most of them have changed price. Acolytes though in the most recent book are 11.66pts per PL. Neophytes are 12.5pts per PL. They seem to flex from 10-20pts per PL which is pretty broad. If we're sitting at 75-80pts per oblit we'll be good. If not then the unit won't see much play.
Because upgrades that do not cost PL but cost points are factored into the PL.
Look for units with no upgrades and you will find that most of them are between 15.1 points per power level and 24.9 usually.
I think they all look pretty good. I think the problem is it’s hard to judge these models from photos. I thought the primaris marines from DI were dumb looking until I actually saw them painted in person. I was totally sold at that point. And now all of the old style marines look “dated” to me.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But then the recosting of units in CA isn't taken into consideration with PL, which in my mind kinda defeats the entire point of the PL situation.
Spoiler:
And also this:
If only...
See, that looks kinda awesome. I really can't see why the Primaris fly/jump units don't have the huge jump packs and assault units have. That is more than enough to visually on the tabletop to show they have FLY. Having them ground based and braced to shoot is the pose I want. Not looking like they they got gut punched or are flying back or cartoonishly flopping about with a fire hose looking weapon.
Galef wrote: Not convinced the new Oblits are better. Even with +1T, +1W and 6 shots, it looks like they're also substantially more expensive.
I've seen a leak of the datasheet and they are Power Level 6 for 1 Oblit.
That's right, you can take them in units of 1 again. But they've got to be close to twice the cost not considering the were PL10 for 3 model.
At PL6 per model, they've got to be at least 110-125ppm.
-
Perhaps, but being able to be taken as single model units again means that 3 can fill out a relatively cheap Spearhead.
I'm banking on these being somewhere between 90-100 pts a model and for what they have I'm fine with that.
Not feeling the space marine side AT ALL. They don’t feel 40k to me. Don’t look like space marines to me. And that the box is designed ala Dark Imperium makes this an easy pass.
Straight away 4 are already missing and that's just what I noticed in the first 3 seconds.
- power fist with claws (possibly either Abbadon himself or a terminator kit)
- lance chain blade
- hull mounted flamer/laser (either a variant of the venomcrawler or a new Daemon Engine entirely)
- Heavy Bolter
H.B.M.C. wrote: But then the recosting of units in CA isn't taken into consideration with PL, which in my mind kinda defeats the entire point of the PL situation.
And also this:
If only...
seems like an easy conversion. Thank god I have a massive bitz box.
They look so much better with the normal jump packs.
With the jump pack at least its not as awkward, if on the ground at all seems far more incumbent to the character of the model. He should look fine if we cut down the barrel to like a half of its size.
The helmet looks fine overall but him bracing and firing makes more sense. As I don't actually see them firing while in the air.
If they did they would probably be pushed by the force of the cannon, they would flying all over the place and would have to waste a lot of resources to keep them in the air, which makes no sense this is an infantry not a jump pack infantry, This is especially worrying in a vacuum he would probably fire and would lose course entirely because of the force fired upon from the gun.
See with the original jump pack marines they had chainswords and bolt pistols they made some sense. Their job was to drop in and slaughter things in close combat that makes sense. This not so much.
Straight away 4 are already missing and that's just what I noticed in the first 3 seconds.
- power fist with claws (possibly either Abbadon himself or a terminator kit) - lance chain blade - hull mounted flamer/laser (either a variant of the venomcrawler or a new Daemon Engine entirely) - Heavy Bolter
To add to this the flaming skuill icon, the book, the spikes of the guys.
The low hanging spike and skulls, the dragon symbol. The Talon is sword like and isn't the venomcrawler. The Lightning claw is also missing still.
The lectern with candles... And the other flaming skull are all missing still.
ImAGeek wrote: The Autocannon is different to the one in the box too.
Oh your right there is a third barrel on the sneak peak. Dang your correct.
I had to double look twice but yes the shadowspear autocannon is missing the bar on the bottom. And knife is far more 'wicked' than the shadowspear one.
Hoping its chaos termies then.
Or the Bringers of Despair which have been needing representation in 40k as the deathguard have their own elite 'termie' unit. So it would make sense Abaddon would have his bodyguards finally.
Dread Master wrote: Not feeling the space marine side AT ALL. They don’t feel 40k to me. Don’t look like space marines to me. And that the box is designed ala Dark Imperium makes this an easy pass.
I think GW is retiring a lot of the Gothic over-the-topness of the setting. Gone are the warrior monks of old, replaced by these Master Chief looking guys. Personally, I've started chiseling off the aquilas from my formerly-loyalist Eternity Wardens. The Imperium has turned its back on them, so now they're returning the favor.
The Suppressors have a really unfortunate look, however. Their silhouette is very messy, and the lack of traditional jump packs is weird. At least the Infiltrators look coherent.
What's really tripping me out is the last image on the rumor thread cause I know exactly what it is but I'm not sure why its there. Not exactly the same but the similarity is uncanny.
AduroT wrote: I prefer the decreased about of bling and gothic on the marines myself. I started the game way back in second edition before that really started to creep so heavily into it, and it’s just been a long slow flanderization of their themes over the years. I appreciate them going back to the basics and cutting extraneous stuff off.
I think there's room for both - 'clean' power armour does look awesome, but I'm also a fan of the Black Templar 'If you like it then you should have put a candle on it' approach to armour decor.
Also, IMO anyway, there's a pretty hefty difference between "clean" power armour as-was, and the Primaris "all Tacticool, all the time" look. They really do look like they came out of one of those various fan projects to "rewrite 40K as a more reasonable setting". Or Rogue Trader, which of course is what's actually happening to 40K - the design team's midlife crisis in full swing, rewriting 40K as they remember it from their youth(I'm just taking the piss a bit, chill. Mostly, anyway.).
Ive never gotten the feeling that the Astartes were purely Warrior Monks to begin with, so thats up to everyones interpretation. The only ones that felt very warrior monky were the Dark Angels and the Silver and Red Successors. Everyone else had varying degrees of it I suppose.
I can't help but feel that those flying primaris were inspired more by Playskool Heroes than traditional 40k artwork which is a shame because I really liked the initial Intercessor, Hellblaster, and Reiver asthetics/proportions. YMMV. Admittedly the previous flying Inceptors and plodding Aggressors less so but ultimately I was happy with the line overall (the fluff on the other hand not so much...).
H.B.M.C. wrote: But then the recosting of units in CA isn't taken into consideration with PL, which in my mind kinda defeats the entire point of the PL situation.
And also this:
If only...
This is great. I like the Primaris gear, so I’m not gonna talk about the pack. But, so people don’t hound you for “modeling for advantage,” stack a lot of cork or some kind of statue on the base so the unit can retain its flight stand height.
I had no problem with the Inceptor pose and flight stem. But I will model the Suppressors crushing through the edge of a ruin or something akin to that.
Albertorius wrote: Honestly, my biggest problem with all the newest flying units is the new curved flight stick that the only way to attach is gluing >_>
I'm still not on board with Aggressors completely, but the Inceptors eventually won me over (especially with the big dome helmet shields they can pull over their regular helmets). I don't like Primaris as a whole, but I do like the idea of Aggressors and Inceptors being exo-suits in the same style as Centurion suits.
But I don't think it translates well to heavy weapon guys. Seeing them flying really was a shock, as none of the leaks ever showed them actually flying. They looked like a really cool grounded (literally) heavy weapon unit that, whilst deploying by Grab-Chute (which seems fine on a conceptual level to me), were still a unit that hit the desk and started blazing away.
It really was a "wince" moment when that appeared in that big leaked shot of the booklet showing off all the minis.
I hate the new flying stands. They may look better for display models, but building and gaming with them are a pain. I have to drill out and use the old.flying stems.
Albertorius wrote: Honestly, my biggest problem with all the newest flying units is the new curved flight stick that the only way to attach is gluing >_>
Magnets work too.
If they work for bulky Crisis Suits I am sure they will work for these guys too.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But then the recosting of units in CA isn't taken into consideration with PL, which in my mind kinda defeats the entire point of the PL situation.
And also this:
If only...
This is great. I like the Primaris gear, so I’m not gonna talk about the pack. But, so people don’t hound you for “modeling for advantage,” stack a lot of cork or some kind of statue on the base so the unit can retain its flight stand height.
I like that mockup a lot. I think I will use it as inspiration, but with a few differences. I'm thinking Intercessor body, HH Kalibrax autocannon, and a Sanguinary Guard jump pack (minus the wings).
I like the Look of the new curved stands, but they’re too brittle for Gaming I think. Planning on cutting some brass rings into thirds to replace them.
WhiteDog wrote: I just understood that the rule of the Lt means that one out of six times, he draw his second knife and hit with it.
There was meant to be another rule ("That's Not a Knife") where if he was wholly within 6" of the Vanguard Captain then he'd have to take a Leadership test to not succumb to 'Real Knife Envy' and lose all his attacks that round.
The Chaos Space Marine Squad and Codex have just been removed form the compulsory lists for retailers - likely new versions coming very soon (might be kinda obvious, but it is confirmation of sorts).
H.B.M.C. wrote: But I don't think it translates well to heavy weapon guys. Seeing them flying really was a shock, as none of the leaks ever showed them actually flying. They looked like a really cool grounded (literally) heavy weapon unit that, whilst deploying by Grab-Chute (which seems fine on a conceptual level to me), were still a unit that hit the desk and started blazing away.
The very first pic they showed, up high. I didn't see it at first either, had to have it pointed out.
The Chaos Space Marine Squad and Codex have just been removed form the compulsory lists for retailers - likely new versions coming very soon (might be kinda obvious, but it is confirmation of sorts).
No other kits, like Terminators? That might indicate to them not being replaced, but instead those rumour pics are a new unit.
Shadowspear is 135€, told right now by my FLGS owner. I don't know how that changes to other currencies. But it is more expensive than Dark Imperium and similar boxes, so expect a price hike boys.
But I suppose it was to be expected after the price hike of the Start Collecting! boxes.
Galef wrote: Not convinced the new Oblits are better. Even with +1T, +1W and 6 shots, it looks like they're also substantially more expensive.
I've seen a leak of the datasheet and they are Power Level 6 for 1 Oblit.
That's right, you can take them in units of 1 again. But they've got to be close to twice the cost not considering the were PL10 for 3 model.
At PL6 per model, they've got to be at least 110-125ppm.
-
I think their place will change from "Drop a unit of 9 and kill whatever you are shooting at" to maybe a couple of units of 1 to drop, kill something weaker and then cap objetives or something.
Will they be good enough at that? We'll see. But I doubt theyll cost 110-130ppm, thats entering Dreadnought territory.
This is an interesting one. Clearly they will go up in cost – or they should at least. That may not result in a nerf though, overall.
Firstly, more powerful units are more efficient when using buffs. So firing a unit of Slaanesh obliterators twice gets you even more bang for your CPs than it does now. Likewise any psychic powers and things like that.
Secondly, now they are able to fight in cc they will behave quite differently. Right now if I’m playing against obliterators I can charge them with some random unit (repulsors are one of my favourites) to negate their firing. That’s now going to be a bad plan.
In the end the unit might end up worse, or better. It’s entirely possible that you’re right and they’ll be gone from competitive lists. We won’t know until the points land.
Galas wrote: Shadowspear is 135€, told right now by my FLGS owner. I don't know how that changes to other currencies. But it is more expensive than Dark Imperium and similar boxes, so expect a price hike boys.
But I suppose it was to be expected after the price hike of the Start Collecting! boxes.
That’s £100, $165 US, $270 AUS by GW current conversions - €130 and €135 correspond to the those prices so they went for the upper price for Euro looks like they’ve decided to break the £100 3 digit sticker price for this :(
Man, if thats what a box full of ETB kits is gonna cost (So basically a starter set but without a Rulebook) I don't want to see how much new battleboxes will cost. They'll justify it by the "all new models" but... yeah. No.
Or the next starter set of the next edition or incarnation of 8th. Is like 2009 all over again. So nostalgic.
I'm still sticking with my plan. One box, trade the CSM for a chaos players Astartes, and done with this box. Probably a box or two of each multipart squad when they come out, and then wait until bundle sets later. Same way I have been building up my current Primaris.
Artel used to have a Geralt model, but I think it went away with the C&D'd Warhammer minis.
So... anyone know whether SW/BA/DA/DW will be able to take Vanguard Marines without having to put them into an allied detachment from Codex SM? I'm kind of fearing for the Keen Senses Suppressors I just thought up
Ooph... $270 AUD hurts if that's true... for E-Z-build I can't say I expected it but I guess it comes with the 3 booklets too.
Also Dark Imperium is particularly cheap I think because it's a starter set, like the Kill Team starter which was also really cheap. Still though, ouch.
Galas wrote: Shadowspear is 135€, told right now by my FLGS owner. I don't know how that changes to other currencies. But it is more expensive than Dark Imperium and similar boxes, so expect a price hike boys.
But I suppose it was to be expected after the price hike of the Start Collecting! boxes.
...hm. Not happy with that. I might revisit my idea of getting one.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But I don't think it translates well to heavy weapon guys. Seeing them flying really was a shock, as none of the leaks ever showed them actually flying. They looked like a really cool grounded (literally) heavy weapon unit that, whilst deploying by Grab-Chute (which seems fine on a conceptual level to me), were still a unit that hit the desk and started blazing away.
The very first pic they showed, up high. I didn't see it at first either, had to have it pointed out.
I wouldn’t call that “flying”, but rather them being shown dropping down from orbit/drop ship using their grav chutes (aka fancy parachutes).
That’s £100, $165 US, $270 AUS by GW current conversions - €130 and €135 correspond to the those prices so they went for the upper price for Euro looks like they’ve decided to break the £100 3 digit sticker price for this :(
Pandabeer wrote: So... anyone know whether SW/BA/DA/DW will be able to take Vanguard Marines without having to put them into an allied detachment from Codex SM? I'm kind of fearing for the Keen Senses Suppressors I just thought up
I personally think that DW WONT get access to them – not unless they bring in a new type of DW Kill Team, which is more of a new Codex addition than an faq addition.
As for the others, I’m at a 75/25 for it. I think they likely will get access, but, it’ll further reduce the appearance of the BA/DA/SW special units and make all Marine armies essentially the same.
That’s £100, $165 US, $270 AUS by GW current conversions - €130 and €135 correspond to the those prices so they went for the upper price for Euro looks like they’ve decided to break the £100 3 digit sticker price for this :(
£105 in the UK.
I really hope not, but wouldn't be surprised.
That said, i don't buy these boxes from GW anymore anyway. If i want them i go somewhere that gives 15-20% off.
That’s £100, $165 US, $270 AUS by GW current conversions - €130 and €135 correspond to the those prices so they went for the upper price for Euro looks like they’ve decided to break the £100 3 digit sticker price for this :(
£105 in the UK.
£105 GBP is €138, $173.25 US (Killshot set) of course they could change rates again
AUD$270 for a bunch of push-fit kits and no giant hardbacked rulebook? Feth that noise.
Dark Imperium has more stuff and costs less.
Albertorius wrote: The very first pic they showed, up high. I didn't see it at first either, had to have it pointed out.
Genuinely thought that was a different type of Marine (perhaps the Infiltrators that had been rumoured). Pretty easy mistake to make, given his back's turned and you can't see the gun.
And you can see why people got excited for these guys based upon the one in the foreground. How little did we know...
Kdash wrote: I wouldn’t call that “flying”, but rather them being shown dropping down from orbit/drop ship using their grav chutes (aka fancy parachutes).
I guess that's down to the person. To me it looked like some kind of flying vehicle at first, like a land speeder of some kind, so... very much flying, for me.
Galas wrote: If Dark Angels can't have all this new units (And why shouldn't they?) then thats it for me, I won't be buying the box.
Well, GW already put up the middle finger to DW/BA/DA/DW by denying them access to the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment, so I'm worried they might do it again.
If they do that again because of "chapter diversity" they better start hurrying up with Primaris Thunderwolf Cavalry, Death Company and Ravenwing Black Knights
Pandabeer wrote: So... anyone know whether SW/BA/DA/DW will be able to take Vanguard Marines without having to put them into an allied detachment from Codex SM? I'm kind of fearing for the Keen Senses Suppressors I just thought up
They've said on Facebook that all Chapters will have access to them, although I'm not 100% sure that included DW.
Pandabeer wrote: So... anyone know whether SW/BA/DA/DW will be able to take Vanguard Marines without having to put them into an allied detachment from Codex SM? I'm kind of fearing for the Keen Senses Suppressors I just thought up
They've said on Facebook that all Chapters will have access to them, although I'm not 100% sure that included DW.
Didn't they include Deathwatch, but exclude Grey Knights when they did the first wave of Primaris?
I’m surprised they didn’t go with £99, but they insist on whole numbers.
But the whole reason people do £99.99 etc is because it falls into a lower bracket psychologically
Kdash wrote: I wouldn’t call that “flying”, but rather them being shown dropping down from orbit/drop ship using their grav chutes (aka fancy parachutes).
I guess that's down to the person. To me it looked like some kind of flying vehicle at first, like a land speeder of some kind, so... very much flying, for me.
I just can’t see it as anything like a vehicle, it’s perfectly humanoid shaped..
Then again HBMC, I think you can clearly see the gun, particularly in conjunction with the other guy we see..
But the whole reason people do £99.99 etc is because it falls into a lower bracket psychologically
That used to be the thing, but more retailers have been switching to whole numbers on the thinking that shoppers these days are wise to the 99cent trick and it just annoys them instead of tricking them into spending more.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: My facebook kit supplier has just posted the 'official' UK price as provided by his GW rep as £105
so the prices they are a rising although I'm surprised they didn't just go for £100 as it's a big psycological difference
I don't get it... contents are comparable to dark imperium, both full of new mono pose etb kits. But dark imperium is both cheaper and has a full rule book extra for £10 less?
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: My facebook kit supplier has just posted the 'official' UK price as provided by his GW rep as £105
so the prices they are a rising although I'm surprised they didn't just go for £100 as it's a big psycological difference
I don't get it... contents are comparable to dark imperium, both full of new mono pose etb kits. But dark imperium is both cheaper and has a full rule book extra for £10 less?
GW does price hikes with new releases rather than general updates. This could be just be their periodic price hike for this style kits
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: My facebook kit supplier has just posted the 'official' UK price as provided by his GW rep as £105
so the prices they are a rising although I'm surprised they didn't just go for £100 as it's a big psycological difference
I don't get it... contents are comparable to dark imperium, both full of new mono pose etb kits. But dark imperium is both cheaper and has a full rule book extra for £10 less?
GW does price hikes with new releases rather than general updates. This could be just be their periodic price hike for this style kits
As much as I understand that, it still makes this release look particularly pants on head stupid.
The only positive thing I can think regarding the price of this box is that it seems to have fewer duplicate sculpts that dark imperium. That said, it doesn't come close to making up for the rule book in terms of value.
Disappointing if its being bumped by ten quid that's a fairly big price increase. I really want this set though and will probably buy it from a retailer that offers 20 percent discount but it's still very expensive.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Disappointing if its being bumped by ten quid that's a fairly big price increase. I really want this set though and will probably buy it from a retailer that offers 20 percent discount but it's still very expensive.
If this was a regular battlebox I could accept the price hike but being basically a starter set in everything but in name of monopose models without the big rulebook... it doesn't feels right.
Pandabeer wrote: So... anyone know whether SW/BA/DA/DW will be able to take Vanguard Marines without having to put them into an allied detachment from Codex SM? I'm kind of fearing for the Keen Senses Suppressors I just thought up
They've said on Facebook that all Chapters will have access to them, although I'm not 100% sure that included DW.
Which is funny, because DW is probably the only marine subfaction that can actually successfully use the flying whackadoodle autocannon guys.
Because infantry bodies holding heavy weapons tends to only work if you can have a couple chaff bodies standing in front of the unit tanking hits, and the "tactical genius" of primaris marines prevents them from doing any of that nonsense. Putting them in a kill team alongside Intercessors (who can Beta Bolters all day long at 36" SIA) seems like the only way to make them even remotely worth using.
Otherwise, it's like "OK, you can deep strike them and eat a -1 to hit, or you can start them on the table and guess what I'm shooting the pants off of turn 1?"
This just means that those doing mass splitting of the sets for auction sites make more money as GW will inevitably take 12 months to release the contents separately, if at all.
Even at 20% off the set comes in at £84 UK. At least that puts you over most retailers free postage threshold.
I get 25% from my discounters but even now we are over the £75 mark if so (closer to £80 in fact..)
Used to come in at £71.25 which in my head I just called £70.
Not even sure how much I want from the box, and as they aren’t multi part, may not get much if I was to sell on a few bits.
So that’s making me pause to think..
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote: Guys just find someone that wants the other half of the box and split the cost with them.
While that is usually good advice, in my experience, it's far harder to accomplish. In most cases, both players want the same half. As much as I would prefer to support my LGS with purchases, anything from this box will need to be from eBay.
I have been planning on getting the Know No Fear box for my boys (one needs more Hellblasters, the other needs more Inceptors and I could use the Intercessors). With the contents of this box revealed, we briefly thought about changing that plan....but then saw the rules, and now the price. Even though I am sure the Suppressors will get an alternate gun option (likely Lastalons or Onslaught cannon), for now we will proceed as planned and get KNF.
I think my plan will just be to wait. I don't need the chaos stuff and I can't be bothered ebaying or trading it. Instead I'll see what the full kits look like and get them.
These models are good but I don't need them and there's no rush. Smaller boxes are less likely to draw my girlfriend's attention.
The Primaris characters are the only guys that really stand out. If anyone at my club actively wants the chaos stuff then I wouldn't mind making a trade, but there's no actual need to.
In any case, sprue pics have been floating about, and it seems the stuff is mixed on the sprues like with the DI, so these ETB versions won't be released separately later.
I mean, I can’t see how they aren’t showing Abaddon tomorrow.
They’ve set it all up with the 80 days and all that.
Also where are the sprues floating around? We’ve not had the pictures here..?
I think they were always going to be mixed like DI, this wasn’t like the boxes full of ETB kits that came out (and didn’t they come after each one individually? I can’t remember now..)
Someone broke down what as likely on each sprue a few pages back, and it seemed to make sense with the double models etc, so I just assumed it would be pretty much spot on..
Depending on their points cost, greater possessed might be an easy pick for my three maulerfiends. Getting +1 strength from big possessed as well as from a herald is a nice combo. Finally getting S16/8 maulerfiends without psykers will be fun.
Those characters will get separate releases at some point as the forgebane guys did, and that elder guy will (or did? I forget now..)
Well I’d be surprised if they didn’t. But not for 6-12 months after this box stops being available..
Looks like the Captain and the Librarian are on separate, individuals Sprues. I would anticipate them coming out separately in the future. Otherwise, all of my guesses for the sprues were correct. I can't spot it they have head options like I theorized though.
I just think the unique sprue for the Primaris will have all the heads for the doubled sprue.
Dark Vengeance did that for sure with the gun chaos Marine or whichever guy was doubled there..
Danny76 wrote: Those characters will get separate releases at some point as the forgebane guys did, and that elder guy will (or did? I forget now..)
Well I’d be surprised if they didn’t. But not for 6-12 months after this box stops being available..
DI characters were never released separately. Hilariously enough, even though there are about eight thousand different Primaris Lieutenant models (all with gak wargear,) you cannot actually walk in the store and just buy a vanilla Primaris Lieutenant. They're all either chapter specific, some limited editions, or come in big boxed sets.
Danny76 wrote: I just think the unique sprue for the Primaris will have all the heads for the doubled sprue.
Dark Vengeance did that for sure with the gun chaos Marine or whichever guy was doubled there..
I count five heads for the Marines on the sprue, one of which has a hood. That covers the contents of the sprue (three Infiltrators, one Eliminator, one Suppressor). The alternate head for the Eliminator might be on the non-duplicate sprue, like you said.
This release is super strange. Bespoke sprues, super small units, grey coloured plastic instead of coloured, a ton of heroes or "special" guys (counting the greater possessed here)...it all seems like a starter, but without a big book *and* more expensive.
PS: I'm probably late, but the community site put up sprue pics while I was typing this.
Danny76 wrote: Those characters will get separate releases at some point as the forgebane guys did, and that elder guy will (or did? I forget now..)
Well I’d be surprised if they didn’t. But not for 6-12 months after this box stops being available..
DI characters were never released separately. Hilariously enough, even though there are about eight thousand different Primaris Lieutenant models (all with gak wargear,) you cannot actually walk in the store and just buy a vanilla Primaris Lieutenant. They're all either chapter specific, some limited editions, or come in big boxed sets.
That’s a starter set though, I don’t think characters ever have separate from them..
I said Forgebane, and Eldar as in the wake the Dead box etc (being that they are all on their own little sprues). Though as I say, so far it might just be Forgebane, but I don’t think that’s too crazy a precedent..
Also DI is still available, so that wouldn’t apply yet even if it were part of my statement (But not for 6-12 months after this box stops being available..)
There is nothing saying anything is chaos primaris. All the marines however are likely the new slightly larger size we started seeing with Deathwatch, and continuing with Thousand Sons, Death Guard, and in Blackstone Fortress.
Pandabeer wrote:
Galas wrote: If Dark Angels can't have all this new units (And why shouldn't they?) then thats it for me, I won't be buying the box.
Well, GW already put up the middle finger to DW/BA/DA/DW by denying them access to the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment, so I'm worried they might do it again.
If they do that again because of "chapter diversity" they better start hurrying up with Primaris Thunderwolf Cavalry, Death Company and Ravenwing Black Knights
As far as I remember these chapters didn't really participate in the Indomitus Crusade. DA, BA, SW all lost significant numbers at the onset and were given Primaris to reinforce their ranks. Ranks of Primaris that ultimately didn't participate in the bulk of the fighting the main Crusade force did.
Further the specialist detachment is intended to be somewhat specific to the campaign, and as far as I've seen those chapter haven't been mentioned bringing that sort of force. Right now we don't really have much to go on as far as how those non-codex chapters are integrating their Primaris... which could retro-actively justify for or against having access to the detachment.
So we have a specialist detachment effectively representing veteran marines of a particular type coming together and reforming into something resembling how they fought during Crusade to fight on Vigilus... then we have chapters that hardly participated in that war, and that haven't extensively participated in this new war... You wouldn't demand to take Tyrannic War veterans as those other chapters. Cause that kinda what you're asking for.
Huh, there are six heads on the duplicate SM sprue, but only five bodies. And they specifically call out the Eliminator hooded head. I think there might actually be a head option!
There is nothing saying anything is chaos primaris. All the marines however are likely the new slightly larger size we started seeing with Deathwatch, and continuing with Thousand Sons, Death Guard, and in Blackstone Fortress.
Quite certain StarFyre meant "Is the new Chaos primaris-scaled?" as in "Are the new Chaos Space Marines upscaled to match Primaris Space Marines?" Y'all have answered their question but just defending that I don't think Fyre assumed Chaos Primaris are a thing either
Fan of the new eevil stuff, probably split the box and have a crack at the Chaos side. Only things I don't really like are the feet on the oblits (wondering if I can get centurion feet and swap them in for the big derp helbrute feet, as the one clearly has those boots as well) and the big grabby hands on the possessed, which I've already got warp talon claws to replace with. My main concern is if there will be the horrible undercutting (is that what it's called? lazy sprue-making shortcuts) that the DV Chosen have going on. Doesn't look like it from the sprue shots, thankfully.
I'd be happy with 4 oblits and no tick as well, don't really care about that thing, but also don't hate it.
i mean are these chaos models scaled to the primaris models or still the older style marines?
(im guessing longer term, the idea will be to just phase out the older models once everything has a primaris version so that all the older scale models can be phased out with newer scaled stuff- but that would assume all new marines will be larger scale)
Like update fluff again, so that primaris was never a thing or something. its just marines/chaos and everyone will have the newer type of models if they decided to pay to buy em all.
Galas wrote: If Dark Angels can't have all this new units (And why shouldn't they?) then thats it for me, I won't be buying the box.
Well, GW already put up the middle finger to DW/BA/DA/DW by denying them access to the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment, so I'm worried they might do it again.
If they do that again because of "chapter diversity" they better start hurrying up with Primaris Thunderwolf Cavalry, Death Company and Ravenwing Black Knights
It's almost as though consolidation for Dark Angels and Blood Angels would be a good thing...
Galas wrote: If Dark Angels can't have all this new units (And why shouldn't they?) then thats it for me, I won't be buying the box.
Well, GW already put up the middle finger to DW/BA/DA/DW by denying them access to the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment, so I'm worried they might do it again.
If they do that again because of "chapter diversity" they better start hurrying up with Primaris Thunderwolf Cavalry, Death Company and Ravenwing Black Knights
It's almost as though consolidation for Dark Angels and Blood Angels would be a good thing...
Or that having an entire Codex for just a single Chapter (when other First Founding chapters don't even get a model) plus vast numbers of super special models makes you entitled and massively clogs up the entire production scedule.
Having the new stealth Marines as Raven Guard might have been nice.
Galas wrote: If Dark Angels can't have all this new units (And why shouldn't they?) then thats it for me, I won't be buying the box.
Well, GW already put up the middle finger to DW/BA/DA/DW by denying them access to the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment, so I'm worried they might do it again.
If they do that again because of "chapter diversity" they better start hurrying up with Primaris Thunderwolf Cavalry, Death Company and Ravenwing Black Knights
It's almost as though consolidation for Dark Angels and Blood Angels would be a good thing...
Or that having an entire Codex for just a single Chapter (when other First Founding chapters don't even get a model) plus vast numbers of super special models makes you entitled and massively clogs up the entire production scedule.
Having the new stealth Marines as Raven Guard might have been nice.
I'm sure we'll see plenty of people painting them as ravenguard.
GW paints all their marines as ultramarines. They explained that they do this so you can see all the range in the same colours. I'm not a fan of ultramarines but that does make sense.
I'm considering doing my infiltrators in a camo scheme with their crimson fist colours only used quite sparingly. That might look rubbish but I think it could work.
Pandabeer wrote: So... anyone know whether SW/BA/DA/DW will be able to take Vanguard Marines without having to put them into an allied detachment from Codex SM? I'm kind of fearing for the Keen Senses Suppressors I just thought up
They've said on Facebook that all Chapters will have access to them, although I'm not 100% sure that included DW.
Which is funny, because DW is probably the only marine subfaction that can actually successfully use the flying whackadoodle autocannon guys.
Because infantry bodies holding heavy weapons tends to only work if you can have a couple chaff bodies standing in front of the unit tanking hits, and the "tactical genius" of primaris marines prevents them from doing any of that nonsense. Putting them in a kill team alongside Intercessors (who can Beta Bolters all day long at 36" SIA) seems like the only way to make them even remotely worth using.
Otherwise, it's like "OK, you can deep strike them and eat a -1 to hit, or you can start them on the table and guess what I'm shooting the pants off of turn 1?"
Space Wolves can use them very well as well. You can negate the -1 to hit on deepstriking with the Keen Senses stratagem and they provide easy Overwatch negation (Doing it with Reivers is a hassle because I thought their shock grenade is only 6" range?), something that has really hurt SW up till now. Really nice to have before you send your Smash Captain or Wulfen after a bunch of Hellblasters or Obliterators.
How are people thinking that GW aren't giving these new marines to DA etc. They already confirmed basically everything but deathwatch can take them but are reluctant on saying if deathwatch can or not.
Danny76 wrote: That doesn’t make a difference?
Halving it at £95 was better than halving £105..
I think that’s why people are still unhappy at the increase...
This. Simple math, really. Not sure how could anyone argue against it.
It's supposed to be a battle box, but unlike all the others it has ETB kits and they have reaised the price.
It has ETB kits like the DI box, ut unlike DI it doesn't have the bigass book, and the price is higher.
When we thought it was a regular box ala Forgebane I had every intention of buying two. After the reveals and the price increase I might buy half.
It's that simple. GW have the right to put the price they damn like to anything they sell. I have the right to tell them "ahahaha nope" whenever I damn well please.
As both a SM (Salamanders) and CSM (World Eaters)-player, I found this box quite appealing at first glance. Now when I've read (most) of the rules, I'd break it down as:
- Captain in Phobos Armour:
Model is pretty meh, and so are his rules/wargear. Did he forget his powersword back at the monastery?
I can see the appeal in a mass-infiltrate list so his aura can be where it's needed, but other than that? Pass.
- Lieutenant in Phobos Armour:
Model is decent, but his rules and wargear are pretty meh. A knife fighter without a Combat Knife? Would he be too OP with 5 S4 AP- attacks?
- Librarian in Phobos Armour:
One of the best mini's I've seen in some time.
Unlike his two HQ-brethren, the Librarian also remembered to bring an actual weapon to the battle. Looking forward to seeing the Obscuration-discipline in all it's glory. It simply can't be worse than our current discipline.
- Infiltrators:
Solid mini's. Rules look good and unique.
Can't wait to try them out.
- Suppressor:
Would look much better if they just stood on the ground, I'm no fan of the peg. Suppressing fire seems like a gimmick, mainly because it's a waste to shoot what's essentially a anti-tank gun against the things you want to suppress (infantry) in the first place.
- Eliminators:
Great mini's. Rules look very promising. Wish they could be more than 3 in a squad, but I guess one can simply take more than one squad if they feel the need to. Mortis Rounds look really weird though. "Here's a lousy ammo-type if you find yourself staring into a wall. Have fun."
- - - -
- Master of Possession:
Don't really like the mini, I'd probably remove the flames.
Rite of Possession looks like it's gonna need a day 1 errata, because right now that rule basically only causes the MoP himself to PotW, and that can't be the intent. Looking forward to seeing what the Malefic discipline brings to the table though.
- Venomcrawler:
Jury is out on the mini itself, this is something I need to see in the flesh. Rules are pretty lackluster though, WS/BS 4+ really hurts both it's shooting and close combat prowess. Without a Master of Possession in your list, this walker feels overpriced.
- Greater Possessed:
A unit that no one asked for. These are essentially Khorne Heralds +1. Great if you have plans for the Locus, meh if you don't. Not a big fan of the minis though.
- Obliterators:
New plastic Oblits? Yay! Random stats on their guns? Yay?
6 Power/120 points per model? WTF...I mean Nay!
I'm sorry, but in what world is an Obliterator, even with their improved stats, worth as much as a Helbrute or even a Vindicator?
- Chaos Marines.
I mean, they're chaos marines. Model's look good, but I already have a ton painted and ready to go.
Overall, I'd say that Chaos got the short end of the stick in this box.
Most of the Primaris-stuff seems like a solid addition to my existing army.
Most of the CSM-stuff is either stuff I don't need or stuff that seems overpriced for what it does.
I have a feeling when eliminators get a full release they'll go to 3-6 in a squad maybe.
GW has also hinted at the full kits having weapon options so the suppressors and infiltrators might have more options later on.
I'm surely going to get the imperium half ot the box.
The 3 characters alone cost more than the 70 euros i will pay at full price. I get all the other marines and the minidex as a bonus.
It may cost more than dark vengeance, but it is still a really good deal.
Galas wrote: If Dark Angels can't have all this new units (And why shouldn't they?) then thats it for me, I won't be buying the box.
Well, GW already put up the middle finger to DW/BA/DA/DW by denying them access to the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment, so I'm worried they might do it again.
If they do that again because of "chapter diversity" they better start hurrying up with Primaris Thunderwolf Cavalry, Death Company and Ravenwing Black Knights
It's almost as though consolidation for Dark Angels and Blood Angels would be a good thing...
Or that having an entire Codex for just a single Chapter (when other First Founding chapters don't even get a model) plus vast numbers of super special models makes you entitled and massively clogs up the entire production scedule.
Having the new stealth Marines as Raven Guard might have been nice.
Ultras suck at being the "poster boys", SW,DA,BA get waaaayyyyyyy too much attention while other 1st founding get scheiss'd on.
Galas wrote: If Dark Angels can't have all this new units (And why shouldn't they?) then thats it for me, I won't be buying the box.
Well, GW already put up the middle finger to DW/BA/DA/DW by denying them access to the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment, so I'm worried they might do it again.
If they do that again because of "chapter diversity" they better start hurrying up with Primaris Thunderwolf Cavalry, Death Company and Ravenwing Black Knights
It's almost as though consolidation for Dark Angels and Blood Angels would be a good thing...
Or that having an entire Codex for just a single Chapter (when other First Founding chapters don't even get a model) plus vast numbers of super special models makes you entitled and massively clogs up the entire production scedule.
Having the new stealth Marines as Raven Guard might have been nice.
Sorry, but nobody needs that many unique entries for units. 3-4 per Chapter would suffice.
Hell, I would be for consolidating Space Wolves too but they're way too out there with the differences.
There is nothing saying anything is chaos primaris. All the marines however are likely the new slightly larger size we started seeing with Deathwatch, and continuing with Thousand Sons, Death Guard, and in Blackstone Fortress.
Quite certain StarFyre meant "Is the new Chaos primaris-scaled?" as in "Are the new Chaos Space Marines upscaled to match Primaris Space Marines?" Y'all have answered their question but just defending that I don't think Fyre assumed Chaos Primaris are a thing either
The problem with assuming that is that Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, and Black Stone Fortress Chaos are all still shorter than Primaris. There is as much height difference between those minis and primaris, as there are between those minis and the older sized marines. Its a couple millimeters both ways.
Galas wrote: If Dark Angels can't have all this new units (And why shouldn't they?) then thats it for me, I won't be buying the box.
Well, GW already put up the middle finger to DW/BA/DA/DW by denying them access to the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment, so I'm worried they might do it again.
If they do that again because of "chapter diversity" they better start hurrying up with Primaris Thunderwolf Cavalry, Death Company and Ravenwing Black Knights
It's almost as though consolidation for Dark Angels and Blood Angels would be a good thing...
Or that having an entire Codex for just a single Chapter (when other First Founding chapters don't even get a model) plus vast numbers of super special models makes you entitled and massively clogs up the entire production scedule.
Having the new stealth Marines as Raven Guard might have been nice.
Sorry, but nobody needs that many unique entries for units. 3-4 per Chapter would suffice.
Hell, I would be for consolidating Space Wolves too but they're way too out there with the differences.
Conversation for another thread (again) but there are very if any few units that are in the Wolves Codex that would not be present in aleast one other Chapter - I can't think of a single one in fact.
If Raven Guard (and others) would be the sneaky marines - who would be the best fit for the SAMAS Marines?
Hell, I would be for consolidating Space Wolves too but they're way too out there with the differences.
Just have two? Codex compliant Chapters, and Codex uncompliant. The latter would include unique SW and BT units, the former would have the unique BA and DA units.
I'm not sure about DW and GK. Maybe a third Inquisitorial Marine Codex.
honestly with the deathwatch they should just be a supplement army with no troop choices. They should be the elites of the chapter. They should not be a solo army.
If Raven Guard (and others) would be the sneaky marines - who would be the best fit for the SAMAS Marines?
WD Crimson Fists? Run the 3 man minimum so you are almost always out numbered, have 2+ to hit standing still and 3+ after moving.
I'd say Salamanders, you'll statistically fail to hit or wound once, which if fixed by their CT. The unit also fits their dragon theme pretty well...
Asherian Command wrote: honestly with the deathwatch they should just be a supplement army with no troop choices. They should be the elites of the chapter. They should not be a solo army.
Yup, because they always operate with others and totally not undertake 95% of missions on their own
What next, delete all the various Codex:SM books and make Tactical Squad elite choice in IG?
Yup, because they always operate with others and totally not undertake 95% of missions on their own
Have you ever read any of the deathwatch lore? They are a kill team. Not mass army deployment, they deploy with others when they need strength.
Deathwatch are far too spread out, they operate at most at squads of 5 members, sometimes on rare ocassion 10. This has not changed at all since any edition, even in their current codex. They only deploy at least 30 marines on very rare ocassions. If we want marines to be good overall we get rid of deathwatch because it is damaging the pool for space marine armies.
There is no reason currently or competitively not to take deathwatch over a normal squad other than points. Deathwatch intercessors have a -1 ap in edition to their damage they already deal.
It currently destroys any competitiveness that the other armies can have, until then get rid of them and just make an elite choice, and then they will be fine. They should never have been a solo army, exactly like the tempestus scions, who I agree should not have had their solo codex.
Have you ever read any of the deathwatch lore? They are a kill team. Not mass army deployment, they deploy with others when they need strength.
Deathwatch are far too spread out, they operate at most at squads of 5 members, sometimes on rare ocassion 10. This has not changed at all since any edition, even in their current codex. They only deploy at least 30 marines on very rare ocassions. If we want marines to be good overall we get rid of deathwatch because it is damaging the pool for space marine armies.
There is no reason currently or competitively not to take deathwatch over a normal squad other than points. Deathwatch intercessors have a -1 ap in edition to their damage they already deal.
It currently destroys any competitiveness that the other armies can have, until then get rid of them and just make an elite choice, and then they will be fine. They should never have been a solo army, exactly like the tempestus scions, who I agree should not have had their solo codex.
This is even more true to the Grey Knights, and they're an independent army too. That too was a mistake, there should have been just an Inquisition codex, with both the DW an GK forming a small part of it.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that these new units won't get DW rules initially. The FB team flat out said that the SW, DA, and BA could use these units, but about DW they were like 'we are not sure...' DW might get these units only when the multiparts are released, and thus allow giving them the DW shoulderpads. Also, I really wouldn't expect Eliminators to get the SIA on top of their own ammo.
With all these special bolters the SIA is kinda awkward anyway. It is basically the same thing.
Have you ever read any of the deathwatch lore? They are a kill team. Not mass army deployment, they deploy with others when they need strength.
Deathwatch are far too spread out, they operate at most at squads of 5 members, sometimes on rare ocassion 10. This has not changed at all since any edition, even in their current codex. They only deploy at least 30 marines on very rare ocassions. If we want marines to be good overall we get rid of deathwatch because it is damaging the pool for space marine armies.
There is no reason currently or competitively not to take deathwatch over a normal squad other than points. Deathwatch intercessors have a -1 ap in edition to their damage they already deal.
It currently destroys any competitiveness that the other armies can have, until then get rid of them and just make an elite choice, and then they will be fine. They should never have been a solo army, exactly like the tempestus scions, who I agree should not have had their solo codex.
This is even more true to the Grey Knights, and they're an independent army too. That too was a mistake, there shuld hev been just an Inquisition codex, with both the DW an GK forming a small part of it.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that these new units won't get DW rules initially. The FB team flat out said that the SW, DA, and BA could use these units, but about DW they were like 'we are not sure...' DW might get these units only when the multiparts are released, and thus allow giving them the DW shoulderpads. Also, I really wouldn't expect Eliminators to get the SIA on top of their own ammo.
With all these special bolters the SIA is kinda awkward anyway. It is basically the same thing.
I am glad people agree on that.
BUt i really hope we don't, infilitrators are already powerful enough just by ruleswise, giving them special ammunition in addition to deathwatch rules is asinine and insane.
Have you ever read any of the deathwatch lore? They are a kill team. Not mass army deployment, they deploy with others when they need strength.
Deathwatch are far too spread out, they operate at most at squads of 5 members, sometimes on rare ocassion 10. This has not changed at all since any edition, even in their current codex. They only deploy at least 30 marines on very rare ocassions. If we want marines to be good overall we get rid of deathwatch because it is damaging the pool for space marine armies.
There is no reason currently or competitively not to take deathwatch over a normal squad other than points. Deathwatch intercessors have a -1 ap in edition to their damage they already deal.
It currently destroys any competitiveness that the other armies can have, until then get rid of them and just make an elite choice, and then they will be fine. They should never have been a solo army, exactly like the tempestus scions, who I agree should not have had their solo codex.
This is even more true to the Grey Knights, and they're an independent army too. That too was a mistake, there shuld hev been just an Inquisition codex, with both the DW an GK forming a small part of it.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that these new units won't get DW rules initially. The FB team flat out said that the SW, DA, and BA could use these units, but about DW they were like 'we are not sure...' DW might get these units only when the multiparts are released, and thus allow giving them the DW shoulderpads. Also, I really wouldn't expect Eliminators to get the SIA on top of their own ammo.
With all these special bolters the SIA is kinda awkward anyway. It is basically the same thing.
I am glad people agree on that.
BUt i really hope we don't, infilitrators are already powerful enough just by ruleswise, giving them special ammunition in addition to deathwatch rules is asinine and insane.
Lol at asinine and insane. I'm sorry but that's just friggin hilarious.
Look, I don't care too much if DW doesn't get them. They're doing "okay" with what they have anyway. But "asinine and insane" is the reaction to the possibility that DW could use infiltrators? REALLY?
?
