brassangel wrote: Another rumor found on 4chan (and Warseer). Season to taste:
someone posted these on 4chan.
>Army-wide notes
>- No FOC and ally table changes
No surprises here. Current 6th edition codex don't really have much in the way of new FoC shifting, and tyranids arent getting allies.
>- Devastation and Adaptation are new power tables with 3 powers each + primaris.
>- Primaris for Devastation = Warp Blast, Adaptation = Onslaught (similar to battle-focus)
>- All Tyranid powers can be used with either one or two charges to increase the effect.
Very similar to chaos. The primaris isn't surprising in either school either. The 2 charges for increased effect is both interestingly unique and not too dissimilar to Eldar's multiple effect powers. New without being out of left field.
>- Ravenous Advance: Units with this rule can run & assault in the same turn.
This sounds oddly similar to what some of the people in this thread were discussing...but it's old fleet, so not exactly breaking the mold here. I'd expect it on genestealers and hormigants.
>- The Ground Trembles: All MC cause d3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
Characterful without being overly powerful.
>- Red Terror, Deathleaper and Old One Eye are unique upgrades to their respective broods.
Makes sense.Hopefully they aren't all laughably bad again.
>Harpy/Erinye, plastic dual kit.
>- Harpy is designed to kill infantry hordes/provide support via its special vector strike.
>- Vector striking it can either use Spore Mine Cyst to create blasts along the path or Sonic Screech to halve initiative and cause a pinning test.
>- Erinye is an AA variant in Elite, very different front torso/head piece with gribbly tentacles.
>- Increased Swoop speed and its gimmick is grappling other flyers.
>- Vector strike -> dice roll 4+ -> the enemy flyer is dragged directly behind where the Erinye ended its move, including a new facing.
>- Both can buy broods of Gargoyles that can drop off in the movement phase when not vector striking.
In line with the harpy dual kit rumors, and the new flyer sounds just like GWs silly gimmicky rules writing.
>Zoanthrope (Doom)/Genethrope, plastic dual kit.
>- Zoanthropes are ML1 psykers, have access to the Devastation, Telepathy, Telekinesis tables.
>- Genethropes are similar, but have access to the Adaptation and Biomancy tables.
>- New unique biomorphs. Increased Shadow in the Warp range, Deny the Witch boost aura, two others.
>- Both types can upgrade up to ML2 but only ever get 1 power, each Elite choice is a unit of 1-3 that can contain mixded Zoan and Gene.
This sounds a little sketchy. Zoans going to devastation/tele/telekin is no real surprise, but to create a dual kit and have a buff-a-thrope? Seems kinda silly. The ML2 upgrade isn't surprising considering the psy power rumors, since with ML2 and 1 power means they just cast that one power at max setting as it were....which means that warp blast is going to be your S5 AP3 blast @1 charge and out beloved S10 AP1 Lance will be 2 I'd bet....so the devastation primaris will likely be largely useless to ML1 bugs. Just a theory really.
>- Doom has access to all the above tables and comes with Essence Leech and 3 powers.
>- Consumes a wound every time it uses a power (except for Leech), but can keep casting until a Perils roll or its down to 1 wound.
I dunno about this either...access to all tables AND essence leech with 3 powers? That's pretty excessive itself (and easily worth 150-200 points alone)....but he can keep casting until perils/out of wounds? Christ, a good essence roll and you could buff half your army with FnP or throw down 9 warp blasts....this feels incomplete.
>Mycetic Spore/Mycetic Hive Node, plastic dual kit
>- Spore is a Dedicated Transport, notable changes are that SC can join and MC broods can all opt to get spores.
>- Hive Nodes are bought by HQ models (1-3 choice for Tyrants, 1 for every other HQ), no transport capacity.
>- Nodes provide Synapse and can be configured in one of many ways. Grants poison or shrouding to nearby units or terraforms (Dangerous Terrain) the surroundings.
This scares me...a LOT. Pods and characters joining...pshh, we knew that was coming....but buff pods? That could get out of hand really fast. Imagine 40 poison genestealers...but you don't have to pay 120 points for their poison, or hell, just KILLING 40 genestealers behind some shrubs with shrounding. They are going to have to be extremely expensive or limited to a 3-6" range.
>Carnifex
>- Old unused bimorphs in the box are options again.
>- Base cost the same but upgrades are much, much cheaper overall but lots of "only buy 1 out of this list" kind of choices which greatly limits what a fex can have.
>- Tusked gives HoW an AP value, Thornback increases the number of HoW hits.
>- Enhanced Senses gives Night Fighting.
>- Tail Scythe & Tail Mace each deliver a single hit to all models in BtB at Ini 1, with different stats.
>- Living Battering Ram rule: Changed to allow the Carnifex to assault the contents of a building/transport on a 4+ if it was destroyed by its charge, rolled once for the brood.
I want effective melee carnifexes back. Period.
Nothing really seems completely out to lunch. Some interesting ideas and evolutions on current units though.
So this implies a Zoan, harpy and pod dual kit then.
meh. guessing my Nids will continue to ride the bench. there's a whole lot of "brings them up a bit", but nothing that jumps out as "omg this is a neat new thing!"
Those sound pretty good. Not sure, as you said, about the 'Genethropes', which just sounds sketchy. A lot of it also sounds like just throwing in what Tyranid players have been discussing around the place ('fortifications' that buff units, assault after run rule, flyer that 'grabs' flyers and is an AA variant, Carnifexes get everything back), which again, kind of sounds sketchy unless we were unknowingly hyping ourselves correctly.
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streamdragon wrote: meh. guessing my Nids will continue to ride the bench. there's a whole lot of "brings them up a bit", but nothing that jumps out as "omg this is a neat new thing!"
Assault after running doesn't sound fantastic to do? I dunno, this kind of is the cheif complaint with Tyranid melee units right now aside from assault grenades.
Mostly issues with terrain/grenades seem to stem from the way intended victims like to be standing on the other side of terrain eg. a wall or a hedge or an aegis line, etc.
-Loki- wrote:I personally don't have the issue others have with assault grenades, but that's mostly because we use very little area terrain.
I don't either. I mean the assault grenades part. I've virtually never had that decide a game or even a combat for me in 6th edition. People talk about it more than it matters, I'd guess. One of those internet group-think tirades that doesn't go away; like the people who still pretend Grey Knights are dominating (despite tons of tournament results to the contrary), or the Chaos Space Marines codex isn't good (despite tons of tournament results to the contrary). Or the PP guys I meet at 'Cons who claim GW still only releases armies every 6 months, doesn't write the rules close enough together to be balanced, doesn't release models every month, etc. All arguments that were valid over a year ago, but not anymore.
Not saying its guaranteed to be fake, but the flying thing that drops gargoyles sounds alot like the Harridan that does the same thing. If its true thou and the flying hive tyrant making gargoyles a troop choice, I can see a very large, mostly flying army in my future
Grimdark, are you suggesting the Gargoyles will be getting a rebox soon? Perhaps 10 models for $60? Perhaps this rumor is more substantial than we originally thought.
Absolutionis wrote: Grimdark, are you suggesting the Gargoyles will be getting a rebox soon? Perhaps 10 models for $60? Perhaps this rumor is more substantial than we originally thought.
I dont remember mentioning gargoyles getting a rebox and im not sure what I said to make you be such a smart ass towards me but whatever. I figured it didnt mean much but the rumors of a new flyer and the supposed rules for the new flyer, it sounds alot like the harridan and it wouldnt be the first time FW lost a model to GW to be made of plastic, they are going to be doing it again hopefully, when they make plastic shriekes
About the Harridan being out of stock - this happens with Forgeworld. Generally with older models that aren't ppular anymore, mostly because they aren't actively producing them. When the last is sold, they need to do a production run to get the numbers back up to sell.
But then, there's also the fact that their Hive Tyrants went out of stock not too long ago deliberately, because they're part of the 3rd edition aesthetic and GW had moved the Tyranids on since then. I doubt they'd drop the Tyranid gribblies that don't have GW released counterparts because of that though. The Malanthrope has no codex equivalent, for example.
As for the new flyer having transport similarities to the Harridan, that hardly means the Harridan itself would be discontinued. They're completely different units - the Harridan is an Apocalypse Flying Gargantuan Creature (and the model is suitably massive), and the new flyer would be a regular 40k Flying Monstrous Creature. That would be like discontinuing the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT because GW reboxed the Chimera.
The trygon was apoc only at one point wasn't it? I was just suggesting it because the timing seemed kind of good and the rules matched. I wasn't suggesting the harridan being discontinued entirely just that it might be going to plastic like the trygon. I dont follow forgeworld that much and I didn't know that stuff just sold out and stayed that way. I apologize for my mistake
The harridan is out of stock because it is actually decent in apoc now (and in the new book) - but that topic belongs in another thread.
I think we will clearly see an attempt to move finecast to plastic, possibly to do dual kits - this gives sales to new players, and sales to old who either kept their metal, or want the new version.
Regarding assault grenades, its mostly an issue with the nids that have high point costs associated with their initiative values compensating for poor armor saves (stealers, ravenors, etc.).
When an entire squad of these models are reduced to init 1, and have a bad save, you lose a lot of them.
To balance out the point costs, they need either - a better armor save, really ignoring terrain or lower points costs.
Skilled opponnents will always try to force an assaulting force to make an difficult terrain check - which, is not terribly hard to do if you are playing larger squads (a bunch of stealers or gants) and playing with the suggeted amount of terrain in the book (most people do not, and are shocked when they actually read the rules).
Regardless, the new rumors look pretty good, and here is hoping the new nid dex is solid, and supports a lot of different builds - so far the recent books have all done so (even the sm rumors point to a very strong (maybe too much so?) book with a lot of good builds).
grimdark83 wrote: The trygon was apoc only at one point wasn't it? I was just suggesting it because the timing seemed kind of good and the rules matched. I wasn't suggesting the harridan being discontinued entirely just that it might be going to plastic like the trygon. I dont follow forgeworld that much and I didn't know that stuff just sold out and stayed that way. I apologize for my mistake
The Trygon is really with the other large oval base kits as the limit of what's really logical for regular games of 40k. The Harridan is bigger than a Baneblade, so it's not exactly what you'd expect from a dual kit with a Harpy.
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davethepak wrote: Skilled opponnents will always try to force an assaulting force to make an difficult terrain check - which, is not terribly hard to do if you are playing larger squads (a bunch of stealers or gants) and playing with the suggeted amount of terrain in the book (most people do not, and are shocked when they actually read the rules).
I play with more than the recommended amount of terrain and against fairly good opponents, and rarely ever need to assault through difficult terrain.
Mycetic Hive Node - why would I want to pay for something that creates diff terrain? Difficult terrain is the Tyranid enemy- making us fail charges and cuts I down to 1, while most other armies laugh it off with grenades. And if it share stats with current spore (T4, 4+ save) shrouding or poison buffs wont matter when your opponent can just say 'no' with a S8 shot. Of course, important info missing that can change the picture.
Ravenous Advance - this is the best rumour so far, guessing it ends up on Hormagaunts and Raveners.
I can't see them including any sort of fortifications in the book. People have expected that from other codexes (such as a shrine or something for Chaos and a Webway gate for Eldar) but it hasn't happened yet.
davethepak wrote: ...
When an entire squad of these models are reduced to init 1, and have a bad save, you lose a lot of them.
To balance out the point costs, they need either - a better armor save, really ignoring terrain or lower points costs.
(Not aimed at you but picking up on something of a general theme over the last 10-15 years.)
I have an alternative, much more radical solution. It has the flavour of second edition that GW seem to be harping back to in 6th.
Make 'stealers, Warriors, Raveners, LICTORS, etc actually deadly in H2H combat again. That way if some of them survive they can at least do some nasty damage.
I agree that the models mentioned above need at least the option to purchase Frag Grenades..I don't want to simply take more 'Stealers to watch the majority of them die because they didn't have grenades...and then hit the enemy like a mildly dried noodle.
In second edition a 'stealer would rip up Marines in assault as easily as the Marine would tear the Stealer up with bolter fire. I would really like to go back to that.
I'm perhaps bitter at the number of Marine players who insist on whining when their precious Marines are killed in assault by Tyranids.
davethepak wrote: ...
When an entire squad of these models are reduced to init 1, and have a bad save, you lose a lot of them.
To balance out the point costs, they need either - a better armor save, really ignoring terrain or lower points costs.
(Not aimed at you but picking up on something of a general theme over the last 10-15 years.)
I have an alternative, much more radical solution. It has the flavour of second edition that GW seem to be harping back to in 6th.
Make 'stealers, Warriors, Raveners, LICTORS, etc actually deadly in H2H combat again. That way if some of them survive they can at least do some nasty damage.
I agree that the models mentioned above need at least the option to purchase Frag Grenades..I don't want to simply take more 'Stealers to watch the majority of them die because they didn't have grenades...and then hit the enemy like a mildly dried noodle.
In second edition a 'stealer would rip up Marines in assault as easily as the Marine would tear the Stealer up with bolter fire. I would really like to go back to that.
I'm perhaps bitter at the number of Marine players who insist on whining when their precious Marines are killed in assault by Tyranids.
I
The thing is, point for point they do...if you catch them out in the open. As soon as you are assaulting into terrain though, you get mauled.
And yet somehow Tyranids have managed to adapt (see what I did there?) and stay competitive despite a lack of grenades. I agree with others -- it's a factor, but hardly one of the most important issues with the army.
The new rumors are interesting. But as always, the devil is in the details. And after what happened with the fake daemon stuff a couple weeks before release, I'll certainly keep these in the proper perspective.
-Loki- wrote:I personally don't have the issue others have with assault grenades, but that's mostly because we use very little area terrain.
I don't either. I mean the assault grenades part. I've virtually never had that decide a game or even a combat for me in 6th edition. People talk about it more than it matters, I'd guess. One of those internet group-think tirades that doesn't go away; like the people who still pretend Grey Knights are dominating (despite tons of tournament results to the contrary), or the Chaos Space Marines codex isn't good (despite tons of tournament results to the contrary). Or the PP guys I meet at 'Cons who claim GW still only releases armies every 6 months, doesn't write the rules close enough together to be balanced, doesn't release models every month, etc. All arguments that were valid over a year ago, but not anymore.
I don't really have an issue with not having assault grenades because (as most smart players have) I've changed my list to not have assault as my primary driver (or if I'm assaulting it's with free termagants).
I have over 100 genestealers on my shelf because they don't have assault grenades. In 5th I accepted the losses from swinging last and still did enough damage/won combat enough for them to be viable.
In 6th, between getting into assault a turn slower and taking overwatch fire on the way in they've done nothing but waste points.
gorgon wrote: And yet somehow Tyranids have managed to adapt (see what I did there?) and stay competitive despite a lack of grenades. I agree with others -- it's a factor, but hardly one of the most important issues with the army.
Having a monobuild (Flyrants and Tervigons) isn't an issue?
-Loki- wrote:I personally don't have the issue others have with assault grenades, but that's mostly because we use very little area terrain.
I don't either. I mean the assault grenades part. I've virtually never had that decide a game or even a combat for me in 6th edition. People talk about it more than it matters, I'd guess. One of those internet group-think tirades that doesn't go away; like the people who still pretend Grey Knights are dominating (despite tons of tournament results to the contrary), or the Chaos Space Marines codex isn't good (despite tons of tournament results to the contrary). Or the PP guys I meet at 'Cons who claim GW still only releases armies every 6 months, doesn't write the rules close enough together to be balanced, doesn't release models every month, etc. All arguments that were valid over a year ago, but not anymore.
I don't really have an issue with not having assault grenades because (as most smart players have) I've changed my list to not have assault as my primary driver (or if I'm assaulting it's with free termagants).
I have over 100 genestealers on my shelf because they don't have assault grenades. In 5th I accepted the losses from swinging last and still did enough damage/won combat enough for them to be viable.
In 6th, between getting into assault a turn slower and taking overwatch fire on the way in they've done nothing but waste points.
This, pretty much. My Genestealers aren't disappointing me anymore, on the shelf. What little assault there is, is done by disposable Termagants - they are free and don't care much failing charges through syrup terrain, Overwatch and striking last. Plenty more were they came from, but they are more a wet blanket than a chainsaw, and dragged out combats in every game gets old fast.
gorgon wrote: And yet somehow Tyranids have managed to adapt (see what I did there?) and stay competitive despite a lack of grenades. I agree with others -- it's a factor, but hardly one of the most important issues with the army.
Having a monobuild (Flyrants and Tervigons) isn't an issue?
I don't understand your response to my statement. All codicies trend toward a limited number of builds as they age. But that has nothing to do with assault grenades in the case of Tyranids.
brassangel wrote: Another rumor found on 4chan (and Warseer). Season to taste:
someone posted these on 4chan.
>Army-wide notes
>- No FOC and ally table changes
No surprises here. Current 6th edition codex don't really have much in the way of new FoC shifting, and tyranids arent getting allies.
>- Devastation and Adaptation are new power tables with 3 powers each + primaris.
>- Primaris for Devastation = Warp Blast, Adaptation = Onslaught (similar to battle-focus)
>- All Tyranid powers can be used with either one or two charges to increase the effect.
Very similar to chaos. The primaris isn't surprising in either school either. The 2 charges for increased effect is both interestingly unique and not too dissimilar to Eldar's multiple effect powers. New without being out of left field.
>- Ravenous Advance: Units with this rule can run & assault in the same turn.
This sounds oddly similar to what some of the people in this thread were discussing...but it's old fleet, so not exactly breaking the mold here. I'd expect it on genestealers and hormigants.
>- The Ground Trembles: All MC cause d3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
Characterful without being overly powerful.
>- Red Terror, Deathleaper and Old One Eye are unique upgrades to their respective broods.
Makes sense.Hopefully they aren't all laughably bad again.
>Harpy/Erinye, plastic dual kit.
>- Harpy is designed to kill infantry hordes/provide support via its special vector strike.
>- Vector striking it can either use Spore Mine Cyst to create blasts along the path or Sonic Screech to halve initiative and cause a pinning test.
>- Erinye is an AA variant in Elite, very different front torso/head piece with gribbly tentacles.
>- Increased Swoop speed and its gimmick is grappling other flyers.
>- Vector strike -> dice roll 4+ -> the enemy flyer is dragged directly behind where the Erinye ended its move, including a new facing.
>- Both can buy broods of Gargoyles that can drop off in the movement phase when not vector striking.
In line with the harpy dual kit rumors, and the new flyer sounds just like GWs silly gimmicky rules writing.
>Zoanthrope (Doom)/Genethrope, plastic dual kit.
>- Zoanthropes are ML1 psykers, have access to the Devastation, Telepathy, Telekinesis tables.
>- Genethropes are similar, but have access to the Adaptation and Biomancy tables.
>- New unique biomorphs. Increased Shadow in the Warp range, Deny the Witch boost aura, two others.
>- Both types can upgrade up to ML2 but only ever get 1 power, each Elite choice is a unit of 1-3 that can contain mixded Zoan and Gene.
This sounds a little sketchy. Zoans going to devastation/tele/telekin is no real surprise, but to create a dual kit and have a buff-a-thrope? Seems kinda silly. The ML2 upgrade isn't surprising considering the psy power rumors, since with ML2 and 1 power means they just cast that one power at max setting as it were....which means that warp blast is going to be your S5 AP3 blast @1 charge and out beloved S10 AP1 Lance will be 2 I'd bet....so the devastation primaris will likely be largely useless to ML1 bugs. Just a theory really.
>- Doom has access to all the above tables and comes with Essence Leech and 3 powers.
>- Consumes a wound every time it uses a power (except for Leech), but can keep casting until a Perils roll or its down to 1 wound.
I dunno about this either...access to all tables AND essence leech with 3 powers? That's pretty excessive itself (and easily worth 150-200 points alone)....but he can keep casting until perils/out of wounds? Christ, a good essence roll and you could buff half your army with FnP or throw down 9 warp blasts....this feels incomplete.
>Mycetic Spore/Mycetic Hive Node, plastic dual kit
>- Spore is a Dedicated Transport, notable changes are that SC can join and MC broods can all opt to get spores.
>- Hive Nodes are bought by HQ models (1-3 choice for Tyrants, 1 for every other HQ), no transport capacity.
>- Nodes provide Synapse and can be configured in one of many ways. Grants poison or shrouding to nearby units or terraforms (Dangerous Terrain) the surroundings.
This scares me...a LOT. Pods and characters joining...pshh, we knew that was coming....but buff pods? That could get out of hand really fast. Imagine 40 poison genestealers...but you don't have to pay 120 points for their poison, or hell, just KILLING 40 genestealers behind some shrubs with shrounding. They are going to have to be extremely expensive or limited to a 3-6" range.
>Carnifex
>- Old unused bimorphs in the box are options again.
>- Base cost the same but upgrades are much, much cheaper overall but lots of "only buy 1 out of this list" kind of choices which greatly limits what a fex can have.
>- Tusked gives HoW an AP value, Thornback increases the number of HoW hits.
>- Enhanced Senses gives Night Fighting.
>- Tail Scythe & Tail Mace each deliver a single hit to all models in BtB at Ini 1, with different stats.
>- Living Battering Ram rule: Changed to allow the Carnifex to assault the contents of a building/transport on a 4+ if it was destroyed by its charge, rolled once for the brood.
I want effective melee carnifexes back. Period.
Oddly specific for being 3-6 months out. That said, unlike the Faeit IG wishlist stuff, These seem both logical and plausible.
Nids getting 2 powers charts- if they limit things like Zoans to a single roll, broodlords and tervigons to the nid only charts, that will help a lot with the 15-25 rolls on psy powers problem. And personally, I think the Genethrope could just be a rename/replacement for the venomthrope, as it would so a similar function, appear similar, and get rid of an excess finecast kit in favor of a plastic that can also build Doom, covering 2 units and a SC in one box.
Red Terror, Deathleper and Old One eye being unit upgrades, makes tons of sense. Gives them a bit more protection, and means they may be taken more often.
Old school fleet on some units makes sense too. As does bonus HOW hits.
Erinye sounds like a plausible name, and the odd ability already has a precedent in the magnagrapple and lash.
Doom letting you cast powers as long as you have wounds is nasty, but I expect essense leech to change greatly. Probably just a nova version of life leech from biomancy, which would make it far less broken.
Spore/Hive node kit sounds plausible as well. A deepstriking poid that provides buffs instead of transport sounds like an interesting idea, and while it is strong, it would be a vulnerable hive node for the enemy to target (rather fluffy) And it boosts sales of the kit by adding a new unit that 3rd party have not make knockoffs of yet like spore pods.
Fexes getting back biomorphs that come in the box is also likely. They already have the model, and making fexes better again will get new players who started and have a bunch of trygons and tervigons to buy some fexes this time around.
End result, it even sounds like a proper GW release format-
Codex
Psychic cards
Flier kit- harpy/erynes
Big kit- Pod/Hive node (not huge kit, but nids already have the tervigon and trygon
Combi-kit that gets rid of old metal/finecast kit and adds a new unit- Zoanthrope/Doom/Genethrope
Add a plastic sprue (broodlord?) and a couple finecast kits (Parasite, Nid Prime) and it sounds just like what GW has been releasing for 6th edition.
If it is a wishlist, it is a logical and plausible one (not Baneblades in the guard book! 3 new kits to make Steel Legion!).
If it is real, congrats to nid players.
grimdark83 wrote: The trygon was apoc only at one point wasn't it? I was just suggesting it because the timing seemed kind of good and the rules matched. I wasn't suggesting the harridan being discontinued entirely just that it might be going to plastic like the trygon. I dont follow forgeworld that much and I didn't know that stuff just sold out and stayed that way. I apologize for my mistake
The Trygon is really with the other large oval base kits as the limit of what's really logical for regular games of 40k. The Harridan is bigger than a Baneblade, so it's not exactly what you'd expect from a dual kit with a Harpy.
Uh, that was true until the Wraithknight...I think it's possible that they stole the Harridan (or at least the rules for it), but I don't think its likely, given that it is an official unit in the Apoc book.
Anyway, there are two competing sets of Tyranid rumor leaks at this point, with some direct contradictions between them, so either one of them is lying/wrong or they are both lying/wrong, which makes me sad. Everything known so far is basically hearsay.
streamdragon wrote: meh. guessing my Nids will continue to ride the bench. there's a whole lot of "brings them up a bit", but nothing that jumps out as "omg this is a neat new thing!"
Assault after running doesn't sound fantastic to do? I dunno, this kind of is the cheif complaint with Tyranid melee units right now aside from assault grenades.
It's nice to have it back, yes. But again, this isn't a new thing. We had this, we did okay. We lost it, suddenly we didn't do so okay in assault. Now we're getting it back, we might do well again. This is less "take this nice new thing" and more "here's some of the stuff we took away when we broke you".
Frankly, I see more stuff being taken away.
For instance the rumors mention warrior as sergeants for gaunt squads. This was something we "lacked", so no challenges and whatnot. No big loss to me, honestly. I expect one of two things to happen:
1. Warriors get a points increase or stat nerf, since making troop units fearless is basically an auto-include it has to be balanced accordingly.
2. Warriors lose synapse, getting either a LD boost (so gaunts have a decent chance of making IB rolls) or some watered down version of it. Rerolls maybe.
Even the watered down version of Eternal Warrior being rumored is like, "meh". Warriors were a decent if subpar option when they had EW. They took that away and how many warriors did you see on the table? Almost none. So they give it back, people lap it up as "omg they buffed us!" which is true relative to the crappace book, but not a buff relative to the game's current power level.
streamdragon wrote: meh. guessing my Nids will continue to ride the bench. there's a whole lot of "brings them up a bit", but nothing that jumps out as "omg this is a neat new thing!"
Assault after running doesn't sound fantastic to do? I dunno, this kind of is the cheif complaint with Tyranid melee units right now aside from assault grenades.
It's nice to have it back, yes. But again, this isn't a new thing. We had this, we did okay. We lost it, suddenly we didn't do so okay in assault. Now we're getting it back, we might do well again. This is less "take this nice new thing" and more "here's some of the stuff we took away when we broke you".
Frankly, I see more stuff being taken away.
For instance the rumors mention warrior as sergeants for gaunt squads. This was something we "lacked", so no challenges and whatnot. No big loss to me, honestly. I expect one of two things to happen:
1. Warriors get a points increase or stat nerf, since making troop units fearless is basically an auto-include it has to be balanced accordingly.
2. Warriors lose synapse, getting either a LD boost (so gaunts have a decent chance of making IB rolls) or some watered down version of it. Rerolls maybe.
Even the watered down version of Eternal Warrior being rumored is like, "meh". Warriors were a decent if subpar option when they had EW. They took that away and how many warriors did you see on the table? Almost none. So they give it back, people lap it up as "omg they buffed us!" which is true relative to the crappace book, but not a buff relative to the game's current power level.
The big difference is that you couldn't take warriors are troops in 4th, they were limited to HQ and Elites, and frankly there were far better choice for both slots, especially if you were running Nidzilla. If warriors remain troops AND get a buff/points change/something to protect them from S8, then I have no doubt you'll be seeing a lot more of them.
Now the big thing I'm worried about is whether bone swords will be changed to AP3...
streamdragon wrote: meh. guessing my Nids will continue to ride the bench. there's a whole lot of "brings them up a bit", but nothing that jumps out as "omg this is a neat new thing!"
Assault after running doesn't sound fantastic to do? I dunno, this kind of is the cheif complaint with Tyranid melee units right now aside from assault grenades.
It's nice to have it back, yes. But again, this isn't a new thing. We had this, we did okay. We lost it, suddenly we didn't do so okay in assault. Now we're getting it back, we might do well again. This is less "take this nice new thing" and more "here's some of the stuff we took away when we broke you".
Frankly, I see more stuff being taken away.
For instance the rumors mention warrior as sergeants for gaunt squads. This was something we "lacked", so no challenges and whatnot. No big loss to me, honestly. I expect one of two things to happen:
1. Warriors get a points increase or stat nerf, since making troop units fearless is basically an auto-include it has to be balanced accordingly.
2. Warriors lose synapse, getting either a LD boost (so gaunts have a decent chance of making IB rolls) or some watered down version of it. Rerolls maybe.
Even the watered down version of Eternal Warrior being rumored is like, "meh". Warriors were a decent if subpar option when they had EW. They took that away and how many warriors did you see on the table? Almost none. So they give it back, people lap it up as "omg they buffed us!" which is true relative to the crappace book, but not a buff relative to the game's current power level.
The big difference is that you couldn't take warriors are troops in 4th, they were limited to HQ and Elites, and frankly there were far better choice for both slots, especially if you were running Nidzilla. If warriors remain troops AND get a buff/points change/something to protect them from S8, then I have no doubt you'll be seeing a lot more of them.
Now the big thing I'm worried about is whether bone swords will be changed to AP3...
I'm not too worried about that. Every army has seen a comprehensive boost overall since getting their 6th edition book. Even if Boneswords were relegated to AP3, the Tyranids would get plenty in return to make up for that. Besides, it's not like you had more than a handful in the entire army anyway. Swarmlord and Hive Tyrants would already be AP2 for being Monstrous, and Tyranid Warriors really shouldn't be slaughtering Terminators with ease.
Tyranids won't receive an overall nerf, but that's what most people will focus on. They did the same to Eldar when Runes changed; made a huge stink in fact. Completely ignored that Guardians and Aspect Warriors got better across the board, Wraithguard got better AND cheaper to buy ($$), the Battle Focus ability, Wave Serpents becoming the hands-down best tank in the game, all sorts of new wargear options, Warlord Traits, psychic abilities, competitive builds, etc. It's easy to look at what one used to play with, and directly think it a nerf because it changed. The difference is, we won't be playing against 5th edition armies anymore. Most of the armies will be 6th ed when Tyranids drop. (Yes, GK's and Necrons are 6th edition books in rules, flavor, and play-style.) We have to look at what the rules do in the current/future meta, not compare them to what they did in the previous edition.
I wait with a strange mix of glee and fatalism to see just how they have overly complicated the problem of Medium-Sized Nids this time around, rather than just making them T5.
IMO, both 'Stealers and Warriors should be slaughtering Terminators with ease.
It is the pay back for the huge amount of shooting damage that they can cause. Some nids might eventually drown the enemy in their own blood but others should be feared and respected...
Now we have 2 sets of rumours, one saying we can ally with ourselves and alter the FOC, the other rumour saying no allying up or alter the FOC.
So if we go with the latter, no FOC altering, would that mean gaunts don't make Terviongs Troops now?
Also I remember when 5th edition Nid codex coming out, lots of the stuff coming out were false.
Also how can we have Nid rumour now when it's still 3 months away? I mean we don't get rumours until 4 weeks before release. How are we getting rumours 12 weeks away, and before the SM are even announced yet?
Davor wrote: Now we have 2 sets of rumours, one saying we can ally with ourselves and alter the FOC, the other rumour saying no allying up or alter the FOC.
So if we go with the latter, no FOC altering, would that mean gaunts don't make Terviongs Troops now?
Also I remember when 5th edition Nid codex coming out, lots of the stuff coming out were false.
Also how can we have Nid rumour now when it's still 3 months away? I mean we don't get rumours until 4 weeks before release. How are we getting rumours 12 weeks away, and before the SM are even announced yet?
Agreed. If I had to choose, I would put the 4chan rumors as bogus and the original Faeit set as playtest rules.
Souleater wrote: I wait with a strange mix of glee and fatalism to see just how they have overly complicated the problem of Medium-Sized Nids this time around, rather than just making them T5.
Why not give warriors an option to take either Wings (moving them to FA, or +1T moving them to elite.
Davor wrote: So if we go with the latter, no FOC altering, would that mean gaunts don't make Terviongs Troops now?
Or Tervigons are troops only, require a gant squad to unlock, and removed from HQ
Davor wrote: Also how can we have Nid rumour now when it's still 3 months away? I mean we don't get rumours until 4 weeks before release. How are we getting rumours 12 weeks away, and before the SM are even announced yet?
Agreed. If I had to choose, I would put the 4chan rumors as bogus and the original Faeit set as playtest rules.
If they are in Nov, wouldn't this be about the right time for them to start printing books and writing up WD?
And I'd go with the 4chan rumors over the Faeit stuff. It is oddly detailed, but it both fits with GW precedent, is rational, and is plausible, without the weird 3 HQ changing FOC, 3rd Giant oval base, redone termagants box stuff from Faeit.
And I'd go with the 4chan rumors over the Faeit stuff. It is oddly detailed, but it both fits with GW precedent, is rational, and is plausible, without the weird 3 HQ changing FOC, 3rd Giant oval base, redone termagants box stuff from Faeit.
Agreed. The 4chan stuff looks more believable, and it's not like Faeit is any better regarding reliability as a rumour source.
And I'd go with the 4chan rumors over the Faeit stuff. It is oddly detailed, but it both fits with GW precedent, is rational, and is plausible, without the weird 3 HQ changing FOC, 3rd Giant oval base, redone termagants box stuff from Faeit.
Agreed. The 4chan stuff looks more believable, and it's not like Faeit is any better regarding reliability as a rumour source.
ductvader wrote: True though...Faeit doesn't have a solid reputation like BoLs and BoK...
...but that is because they tend to hold off on letting the rumors fly until they know for certain.
I still give props to Faeit for putting themselves out there.
BOLS doesn't have that great a rep either. 34/70 when combined.
Larry Vela - Total rumors: (12 TRUE) / (26 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Big Red - Total rumors: (16 TRUE) / (6 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
BOLS - Total rumors: (6 TRUE) / (1 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - NO RUMORS PENDING
Tastytaste on BoK, on the other hand, has really improved.
Tastytaste at Blood of Kittens - Total rumors: (118 TRUE) / (15 FALSE) / (12 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Faeit really needs to filter. Putting yourself out there doesn't need to mean posting every piece of drek that comes across your desk.
Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (181 TRUE) / (238 FALSE) / (34 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
181 true out of 453? Yikes.
ductvader wrote: True though...Faeit doesn't have a solid reputation like BoLs and BoK...
...but that is because they tend to hold off on letting the rumors fly until they know for certain.
I still give props to Faeit for putting themselves out there.
BOLS doesn't have that great a rep either. 34/70 when combined.
Larry Vela - Total rumors: (12 TRUE) / (26 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Big Red - Total rumors: (16 TRUE) / (6 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
BOLS - Total rumors: (6 TRUE) / (1 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - NO RUMORS PENDING
Tastytaste on BoK, on the other hand, has really improved.
Tastytaste at Blood of Kittens - Total rumors: (118 TRUE) / (15 FALSE) / (12 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Faeit really needs to filter. Putting yourself out there doesn't need to mean posting every piece of drek that comes across your desk.
Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (181 TRUE) / (238 FALSE) / (34 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
181 true out of 453? Yikes.
And I'd go with the 4chan rumors over the Faeit stuff. It is oddly detailed, but it both fits with GW precedent, is rational, and is plausible, without the weird 3 HQ changing FOC, 3rd Giant oval base, redone termagants box stuff from Faeit.
Agreed. The 4chan stuff looks more believable, and it's not like Faeit is any better regarding reliability as a rumour source.
Double BURN!
Well, until Faeit starts giving anonymous rumors pseudonyms so we can at least tell them apart, Faeit takes all the blame/credit as far as reliability goes.
Can't remember if I said it here or somewhere else.
How come we getting rumours 12 weeks out, espically before the Space Marine release? I believe EVERYTHING for 6th edition, we didn't get rumours until 4 weeks before release.
So now all of a sudden we are getting rumours 12 weeks away?
Also why have a rumour saying the release is the first Saturday of November. Why not say the actual date Nov 2?
If the rumour was true, he would know the actual date, but since it's fake and he is half arsed not to check the actual date, leads me to believe it's false.
As I said in another forum, I can say, I have a rumour, 7th edition of 40K will be released on the first Saturday of September 2016. This is what it sounds more to me.
We are all clamouring for rumours, not been getting any for over a year, and now all of a sudden they are coming fast and furious. I believe in March we had some rumours that were 3 months away, and they were proven false.
Unless the release date is 4 weeks away, I believe most rumours are false. If they are preview copies, then they will most likely not be in the final product.
ductvader wrote: True though...Faeit doesn't have a solid reputation like BoLs and BoK...
...but that is because they tend to hold off on letting the rumors fly until they know for certain.
I still give props to Faeit for putting themselves out there.
BOLS doesn't have that great a rep either. 34/70 when combined.
Larry Vela - Total rumors: (12 TRUE) / (26 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Big Red - Total rumors: (16 TRUE) / (6 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
BOLS - Total rumors: (6 TRUE) / (1 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - NO RUMORS PENDING
Tastytaste on BoK, on the other hand, has really improved.
Tastytaste at Blood of Kittens - Total rumors: (118 TRUE) / (15 FALSE) / (12 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Faeit really needs to filter. Putting yourself out there doesn't need to mean posting every piece of drek that comes across your desk.
Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (181 TRUE) / (238 FALSE) / (34 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
181 true out of 453? Yikes.
Faeit puts it out there because they are rumors. That's what rumors are: speculative information. I could post rumors with 100% accuracy by simply waiting long enough. He's not making predictions, just posting the information he receives from any and all sources.
ductvader wrote: True though...Faeit doesn't have a solid reputation like BoLs and BoK...
...but that is because they tend to hold off on letting the rumors fly until they know for certain.
I still give props to Faeit for putting themselves out there.
BOLS doesn't have that great a rep either. 34/70 when combined. Larry Vela - Total rumors: (12 TRUE) / (26 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) Big Red - Total rumors: (16 TRUE) / (6 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) BOLS - Total rumors: (6 TRUE) / (1 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - NO RUMORS PENDING
Tastytaste on BoK, on the other hand, has really improved.
Tastytaste at Blood of Kittens - Total rumors: (118 TRUE) / (15 FALSE) / (12 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Faeit really needs to filter. Putting yourself out there doesn't need to mean posting every piece of drek that comes across your desk. Natfka on Faeit 212 - Total rumors: (181 TRUE) / (238 FALSE) / (34 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) 181 true out of 453? Yikes.
Faeit puts it out there because they are rumors. That's what rumors are: speculative information. I could post rumors with 100% accuracy by simply waiting long enough. He's not making predictions, just posting the information he receives from any and all sources.
have to agree with this and by the looks of it 34/70 (48%) and 181/453 (39%) yeah its 9% difference buut who puts them selves out there alot? and who makes the predictions furthest ahead. edit: and i know people are gonna say throw enough at the wall..... etc, but really 39% isnt too bad, as much as we would like 100% accuracy but on that number of rumors over how long. if it was he would need to be kirby himself haha
Davor wrote: Can't remember if I said it here or somewhere else.
How come we getting rumours 12 weeks out, espically before the Space Marine release? I believe EVERYTHING for 6th edition, we didn't get rumours until 4 weeks before release.
So now all of a sudden we are getting rumours 12 weeks away? P
I raised this earlier. Basically, we only ever get these kinds of rumours now when someone gets an advance copy of White Dwarf. This releases White Dwarf would be 2 issues away, so yeah, it's most likely completely bogus.
Quark wrote: The 4chan rumors point to a ML2 Psyker with 1 psychic ability. This breaks from every other 6th Ed psyker, where ML equals # of powers.
And who wants a ML2 psyker that has 1 power rolling on Biomancy? You can't cast the same power twice a turn, and there's no Warp Charge 2 powers.
Easy to do in the current rules without breaking the Mstery Level = powers rule:
Pay x points for the "Power of the hive" rule. When a model with this rule generates a warp charge, it gains an additional warp charge.
And if you are going to roll on biomancy, don't bother getting the upgrade, it seems to be designed for potential nid powers which can be "overcharged."
Not related to the veracity of the rumor, but it could be done extremely easily without breaking any core rules.
Quark wrote: The 4chan rumors point to a ML2 Psyker with 1 psychic ability. This breaks from every other 6th Ed psyker, where ML equals # of powers.
And who wants a ML2 psyker that has 1 power rolling on Biomancy? You can't cast the same power twice a turn, and there's no Warp Charge 2 powers.
I believe it also suggested that all powers would begin at 1 Charge and improve depending on how much charge you used. So a ML2 with one power would be pretty strongly guaranteed to do its one power stronger.
Warriors can be purchased as sergeant style upgrades for gaunts and gargoyles. They get the biomorphs of the brood and are not attached like wolf guard.
Oh higher entities, if they exist and probably do not care for us, let THIS be true!
I think most of what we've seen is play-test fodder and a slew of wish-listing. Some of it may turn out to be true, but I remember the Chaos Space Marines rumors going much like this.
With that one, it got to the point where it looked like they were going to have a 250 page codex, and 18 plastic kits released.
The synapse node wariior hq is the only rumor that I find no ground in...I can say that many of these things suit GW policies and fluff well enough...but for this purpose I think its much more likely that primes take up half an hq choice than become a form of higher node...I dont even know how to differentiate correctly.
If we knew what 6th ed shadow of the warp/synapse truly was...we could make immediate sense of nearly every rumor we've seen.
brassangel wrote: I think most of what we've seen is play-test fodder and a slew of wish-listing. Some of it may turn out to be true, but I remember the Chaos Space Marines rumors going much like this.
With that one, it got to the point where it looked like they were going to have a 250 page codex, and 18 plastic kits released.
Well, at least we are still in the probable rumors, nothing to crazy.
MajorWesJanson wrote:Oddly specific for being 3-6 months out.
Maybe because it's 6 weeks out
Or GW has stopped Mat Ward from writing codecies the night before a release...
I rather Matt Ward write books than the sculptors keep producing Mutilators and/or Centurion models. At least I can house rule broken codices, but I can't house rule bad models to make them better.
Warriors can be purchased as sergeant style upgrades for gaunts and gargoyles. They get the biomorphs of the brood and are not attached like wolf guard.
Oh higher entities, if they exist and probably do not care for us, let THIS be true!
Yeah, then they can be challenged out and power fisted to death!
With boneswords to take down characters with unwieldy weapons before they get a chance to swing, and W3 to outlast the rest, they'd be very formidable in challenges. ICs with inv saves would be different, but the boneswords would still make them quite dangerous. I think you're very wrong on that point.
gorgon wrote: With boneswords to take down characters with unwieldy weapons before they get a chance to swing, and W3 to outlast the rest, they'd be very formidable in challenges. ICs with inv saves would be different, but the boneswords would still make them quite dangerous. I think you're very wrong on that point.
Pretty sure you can trust the bonesword to become AP3 with an instant death rule still attached...maybe even force.
GW has turned most swords into AP3 weaponry...look at bloodletters.
Boneswords will then automatically be wielded at AP2 on MCs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The whole "guns affect close combat and close combat affects guns" rumor died down otherwise I thought that might simply decrease AP values.
gorgon wrote: With boneswords to take down characters with unwieldy weapons before they get a chance to swing, and W3 to outlast the rest, they'd be very formidable in challenges. ICs with inv saves would be different, but the boneswords would still make them quite dangerous. I think you're very wrong on that point.
I took "It has the biomorphs of the brood" to mean it has the same weaponry. If we can still customize the warriors that gives me a little hope. Just a little, mind you.
gorgon wrote: With boneswords to take down characters with unwieldy weapons before they get a chance to swing, and W3 to outlast the rest, they'd be very formidable in challenges. ICs with inv saves would be different, but the boneswords would still make them quite dangerous. I think you're very wrong on that point.
I took "It has the biomorphs of the brood" to mean it has the same weaponry. If we can still customize the warriors that gives me a little hope. Just a little, mind you.
I took this to mean...it gains the affects of the brood biomorphs....as with the current ruleset A Tyranid Prime gains adrenal glands and toxin sacs if within a termagant that is within 6" of a Tervigon that has them.
brassangel wrote: Faeit puts it out there because they are rumors. That's what rumors are: speculative information. I could post rumors with 100% accuracy by simply waiting long enough. He's not making predictions, just posting the information he receives from any and all sources.
Every rumor monger posts information they receive because they are rumors. The difference is that people like Harry, Hastings and Tastytaste all have reliable sources that they think about before posting. Natfka just posts whatever comes his way. That makes him more unreliable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ausYenLoWang wrote: have to agree with this and by the looks of it 34/70 (48%) and 181/453 (39%) yeah its 9% difference buut who puts them selves out there alot? and who makes the predictions furthest ahead.
39% is horrible considering the average for all rumor mongers (including people like Ghost21 and TheDarkGeneral who just make gak up) is around 45-50%. Good rumor mongers like Tasty, Harry and Hastings are in the 80-90% range.
As for who makes the predictions furthest ahead and accurately? Try hastings from warseer. He predicts out a year or so in advance and has something like a 90% reliability. Natfka just posts whatever comes his way to get hits.
edit: and i know people are gonna say throw enough at the wall..... etc, but really 39% isnt too bad, as much as we would like 100% accuracy but on that number of rumors over how long. if it was he would need to be kirby himself haha
Tastytaste at Blood of Kittens - Total rumors: (118 TRUE) / (15 FALSE) / (12 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) 75hastings69 - Total rumors: (60 TRUE) / (6 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) Harry from Warseer - Total rumors: (32 TRUE) / (4 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) Best Pone - Total rumors: (23 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
There you go, folks who have reliable info and share it with us after filtering, rather than just making crap up or posting everything that they see.
special rules:
leap, they just keep coming,synaptic back lash (tyranid warrior only) synapse creature (tyranid warrior only)
leap: may charge +6'' extra & do not lose initiative while charging through difficult terrain
they just keep coming: enemies firing at models with this rule suffer -1 bs. models with BS 1 must re-roll any successful hits on a model with this target.
synaptic back lash: after a model with this rules dies then all friendly units within 6'' of the models death suffer a single strength 3 AP - hit.
Old one eye to have his toughness increased
tyranid warriors
may add an additional 3 models
WS T SV 5 5 4+
Equipment:
piercing talons, leap, synaptic back lash,
special rules: will of the hive mind
upgrades:
toxic sacks: (read above)
adrenal glands: (read above)
range biomorph exoskeleton: (+1 bs)
increased exoskeleton: (+1 sv)
barbed strangler: (remains the same)
venom rifles: (tyranid rifles with poison) 18'' range (under re-testing)
will of the hive mind: while the squad remains with the full 3 models then the synapse range increases to 12''
carnifex:
may add an additional 2 models
T W
6 5
Equipment:
scything talons, piercing talons
special rules: rampant rage, living battering ram, natural disaster
upgrades:
Toxic sacks:
range biomorph exoskeleton:
armoured shell: (2+ save)_
crushing claws: (+d3 attacks & +1 to range AP)
reinforced plating: (reduced strength of weapon being fired at you by 1)
heavy venom cannon: (strength 9 AP 2 heavy 2)
barbed strangler: (strength 5 AP 5 large blast, pinning)
twin linked devourers: (strength 4 AP 6 assault 4)
rampant range: when charging units the carnifex gains rage & furious charge)
Living battering ram: the carnifex deals d3 hammer of wrath hits
natural disaster: if the carnifex forgoes its turn in a piece of terrain (ruins ect) it can destroy that terrain and remove it from play
MajorWesJanson wrote:Oddly specific for being 3-6 months out.
Maybe because it's 6 weeks out
Or GW has stopped Mat Ward from writing codecies the night before a release...
I rather Matt Ward write books than the sculptors keep producing Mutilators and/or Centurion models. At least I can house rule broken codices, but I can't house rule bad models to make them better.
The Centurion models are fine, now that we've had better looks at them. I know I'll get a bunch of them, and I don't even have a Marine army. Conversion possibilities; which also clears up how you "house rule" bad models.
pretre wrote:
brassangel wrote: Faeit puts it out there because they are rumors. That's what rumors are: speculative information. I could post rumors with 100% accuracy by simply waiting long enough. He's not making predictions, just posting the information he receives from any and all sources.
Every rumor monger posts information they receive because they are rumors. The difference is that people like Harry, Hastings and Tastytaste all have reliable sources that they think about before posting. Natfka just posts whatever comes his way. That makes him more unreliable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ausYenLoWang wrote: have to agree with this and by the looks of it 34/70 (48%) and 181/453 (39%) yeah its 9% difference buut who puts them selves out there alot? and who makes the predictions furthest ahead.
39% is horrible considering the average for all rumor mongers (including people like Ghost21 and TheDarkGeneral who just make gak up) is around 45-50%. Good rumor mongers like Tasty, Harry and Hastings are in the 80-90% range.
As for who makes the predictions furthest ahead and accurately? Try hastings from warseer. He predicts out a year or so in advance and has something like a 90% reliability. Natfka just posts whatever comes his way to get hits.
edit: and i know people are gonna say throw enough at the wall..... etc, but really 39% isnt too bad, as much as we would like 100% accuracy but on that number of rumors over how long. if it was he would need to be kirby himself haha
Tastytaste at Blood of Kittens - Total rumors: (118 TRUE) / (15 FALSE) / (12 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
75hastings69 - Total rumors: (60 TRUE) / (6 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Harry from Warseer - Total rumors: (32 TRUE) / (4 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Best Pone - Total rumors: (23 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
There you go, folks who have reliable info and share it with us after filtering, rather than just making crap up or posting everything that they see.
When I received rumors from a source about the Imperial Valkyrie/Vendetta kit 9 months before the IG codex was even rumored, and I posted it on Warseer, Harry and Hastings both said I was wrong. When I received information about Plaguebearers and Horrors coming in plastic 13 months before they were dropped in a wave, both again told me I was wrong. Then they dedicated several posts at the end of a rumor thread to saying, "Sometimes we have to put people in their place who think they have information," and, "When someone's wrong, but argue ceaselessly that they are right, it makes for an awkward exchange and isn't fun."
Then my information turned out to be correct (I no longer have this source, sadly), but I received no credit for the rumor, and neither Harry nor Hastings would acknowledge their mistake. One of their lackey supporters on the forums even said that "anyone could have made those predictions." I like the service they provide and all, but they are nowhere near as accurate as some make them out to be. In fact, both claim that they don't even have much interest in GW products anymore. One or both of them will simply list a release order for the next 12 months, modify it during the entirety of that 12 months, and then people take the final list at the end as the original.
They do offer good information, and often filter it before it hits the streets. They usually aren't offering many rumors, so much as filtered predictions based on the rumors they've received.
Natfka never claims to be accurate, never says he's certain the information he's got is good; he just posts what he gets, puts a disclaimer in place with said information, and let's the people do their own filtering. It's a different style of rumor-mongering, that's all. He certainly gives people something to chew on. Does he try to get hits? Of course, because he runs a website; that's his job; but again, he never claims it to be true, super-duper accurate, or anything less than rumors.
Rumors are rumors no matter how they turn out in the end. Harry and Hastings are offering predictions based on filtered rumors. Natfka is just offering rumors.
Well now, that playtest does sound promising. T5 for warriors is a big step in the right direction. Still can be insta-killed by S10 and Force Weapons, but I'm fine with that. Power Fists and Krak Missiles are far, far more common.
A lot of that sounds wishlisty to me. -1 BS when shooting at gaunts? Why? Reducing strength of weapons shot at 'fexes? Not too likely. Also don't really see the destroying terrain one coming to bear, more likely would probably be the previous rumor that if they wreck a transport or building they have a chance of getting in combat with the guys inside.
-1 BS works as a more 40k-friendly version of the "Bodies over Bullets" Apocalypse formation that made anyone that shot at gaunts potentially run out of bullets for the turn if they rolled too many doubles.
What strikes me as odd is the BS1 that has to reroll hits. How many units in 40k have BS1 (BS2 minus 1 for the rule) besides Orks? Of all the races, Orks would be the least likely to be demoralized from an abundance of things to fight.
What strikes me as odd is the BS1 that has to reroll hits. How many units in 40k have BS1 (BS2 minus 1 for the rule) besides Orks? Of all the races, Orks would be the least likely to be demoralized from an abundance of things to fight.
Snap Shots are BS1 so it would essentially eliminate overwatch; 1/36 chance to hit.
brassangel wrote: When I received rumors from a source about the Imperial Valkyrie/Vendetta kit 9 months before the IG codex was even rumored, and I posted it on Warseer, Harry and Hastings both said I was wrong. When I received information about Plaguebearers and Horrors coming in plastic 13 months before they were dropped in a wave, both again told me I was wrong.
Send me a link and I'll add you to the tracker.
I like the service they provide and all, but they are nowhere near as accurate as some make them out to be. In fact, both claim that they don't even have much interest in GW products anymore. One or both of them will simply list a release order for the next 12 months, modify it during the entirety of that 12 months, and then people take the final list at the end as the original.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, they are tracked now, so they can't just change their predictions.
Rumors are rumors no matter how they turn out in the end. Harry and Hastings are offering predictions based on filtered rumors. Natfka is just offering rumors.
And that makes one much more accurate than the other. People should know that when they read something from Natfka, it probably won't come true. That's all tracking does is lets us know who is reliable and who isn't.
brassangel wrote: Faeit puts it out there because they are rumors. That's what rumors are: speculative information. I could post rumors with 100% accuracy by simply waiting long enough. He's not making predictions, just posting the information he receives from any and all sources.
Every rumor monger posts information they receive because they are rumors. The difference is that people like Harry, Hastings and Tastytaste all have reliable sources that they think about before posting. Natfka just posts whatever comes his way. That makes him more unreliable.
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ausYenLoWang wrote: have to agree with this and by the looks of it 34/70 (48%) and 181/453 (39%) yeah its 9% difference buut who puts them selves out there alot? and who makes the predictions furthest ahead.
39% is horrible considering the average for all rumor mongers (including people like Ghost21 and TheDarkGeneral who just make gak up) is around 45-50%. Good rumor mongers like Tasty, Harry and Hastings are in the 80-90% range.
As for who makes the predictions furthest ahead and accurately? Try hastings from warseer. He predicts out a year or so in advance and has something like a 90% reliability. Natfka just posts whatever comes his way to get hits.
edit: and i know people are gonna say throw enough at the wall..... etc, but really 39% isnt too bad, as much as we would like 100% accuracy but on that number of rumors over how long. if it was he would need to be kirby himself haha
Tastytaste at Blood of Kittens - Total rumors: (118 TRUE) / (15 FALSE) / (12 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
75hastings69 - Total rumors: (60 TRUE) / (6 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Harry from Warseer - Total rumors: (32 TRUE) / (4 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Best Pone - Total rumors: (23 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
There you go, folks who have reliable info and share it with us after filtering, rather than just making crap up or posting everything that they see.
I went back and read the rumors archive, and it really made me sad to realize how almost all the specific rumors that get posted, by anyone, are just not true.
Harry, Hastings, and Tasty do tend to be more accurate than others, but if you go back and look at their rumors, they're also far more likely to be very vague (to the point of useless). I also seem to recall that Hastings said he was basically out of rumor information, and hadn't bothered to keep up with any GW rumors for some time now.
It seems that the general rule of thumb nowadays is that the more specific a rumor is, the more likely it is to be false, based on past experience. Unless you run in to a situation like 40k radio with a (supposedly) early copy of the codex, I'm going to go ahead and call the majority of all the Tyranid rumors out there BS for right now.
That last bunch sounds especially questionable to me. If nothing else, it's obviously incomplete. For one thing (among many), Deathspitters aren't going away as a Warrior option.
MadmanMSU wrote: Harry, Hastings, and Tasty do tend to be more accurate than others, but if you go back and look at their rumors, they're also far more likely to be very vague (to the point of useless).
This is vague to the point of useless?
Spoiler:
Hastings Release Schedule WD 393 starter TRUE WD 394 CSMTRUE WD 395 WoCTRUE WD 396 Hobbit TRUE DA are the last available for pre-orders in 2012 TRUE After that... CD/DoCDUPLICATE Tau TRUE HE DUPLICATE Eldar DUPLICATE LM DUPLICATE
Release Discussion Thread Assumed to be Preorder Dates CSM by Jan/Feb 2013 TRUE WoC by Jan/Feb 2013 TRUE DoC by Jan/Feb 2013 TRUE Chaos Daemons by Jan/Feb 2013 TRUE Chaos SM Sept 2012 FALSE
WOC Models next Year - Oct 2011 plastic chariot/warshrine, TRUE plastic forsaken, TRUE plastic Dragon Ogres, TRUE Plastic Lord Kit TRUE Finecast Characters TOO VAGUE
Harry WOC Rumors - Oct 2012 First wave without the book. (WD update) TRUE First wave (as predicted) November. TRUE Next wave February/March. TRUE Warshrine TRUE Skull crushers TRUE Hellstriders. TRUE 2 Finecast characters TRUE One new one and one old favorite. TRUE
Daemons Rumors - July 2012 Plastic Screamers PARTIALLY TRUE Plastic Flamers TRUE Nurglings in Plastic TRUE Plastic Plague Bearers TRUE Flying Chariot TRUE Seekers Chariot of Slaanesh: Chariot kit has two builds. One has four daemonettes and a herald called an exalted with a big whip. The other build has the exalted on her own but the chariot is dragging spiked / bladed rollers behind it. TRUE Soul grinders comes on the same base as the Arachnarok spider. Shooting attacks. One attack works like grape shot but can be upgraded. Another works like a stone thrower. TRUE Blue Scribes gets a mini. More Dais than disc. TRUE
Tasty CSM Rumors - Some vehicles can be marked FALSE - Princes do not make cults troops, but sorcerors do PARTIALLY TRUE - Terminators can pick sword or axe (power) PARTIALLY TRUE - havoc weapons almost as cheap as LFFALSE - Daemon USR A good number of units in the CSM codex have this USR. Raptors, Oblits, CC Oblit, Defilers, Demon Engines, Dragons, Possessed, Demon Prince TRUE - It Will Not Die USR - Wonder who was getting this new USR well you guessed it CSM is. Dragons, Defilers, Demon Engines TRUE - Demon Possessed– Demon possessed just got a whole bunch cuter really. Instead of not being able to embark in demon possessed vehicles they now will only eat one of your guys and repair itself. Otherwise works the same way as before lose BS and ignore shaken and stunned, In addition some things get wargear automatically. Dragons, Defliers, Demon Engines TRUE - All CSM characters must always accept challenges TRUE - Marks and Icons are both purchasable by most units. That means you have five new Icons and the same four marks, in which units can have a combination of two. This is a list of the USRs and stat bonus possible. Fearless , FnP, +1 T, +1 Invul Save, Rage, Soul Blaze, Furious Charge, Fear, +1 I PARTIALLY TRUE - Almost all CSM units get Hatred Space Marines. PARTIALLY TRUE - Yeah this will be the chart to end all charts and competitive players will cry everywhere because it is random. All 60+random abilities! Yes you heard it right over 60! How it works I don’t know, but characters can get multiple rolls on the chart through various methods. PARTIALLY TRUE - Dragon - This is a CSM answer to other flyers it is designed almost exclusively to hunt and destroy other flyers. Clocking in about the same points cost of Carnifex these little hell on wings Vector Strike and bring pain to a lot of things. Did I mention it gets to re-roll wounds and armor pens. TRUE - Daemon Engine - These guys sit on the large bases like Trygons. They have an assortment of special weapons that have never been seen before. They are designed for Building and Heavy armor destruction with Melta CC weapons and bonuses against buildings. They as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pens. TRUE - Defilers as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pen. TRUE - Cults - You can also get a generic Lord and buy the correct mark and unlock them as troops as well. TRUE - Zerkers: Rage, Cheaper TRUE - 1k Sons: Soul Fire, Same cost (just like before but with Soulfire) TRUE - Emperor Children: Weapons Ignore cover and now have Salvo USR, Cheaper TRUE - Plague Marines: Poison Weapons, More Expensive TRUE - Typhus is now a mastery level 2 sorcerer of Nurgle.TRUE - In addition as reported earlier he can make any cultist a zombie. TRUE - Zombies are going to be disgusting in 6th edition. FnP, Fearless, Fear, and all for no additional cost. As for Cultists they are cheap not conscript cheap, but close. You can get over 30 of them in a squad TRUE - Princes got more expensive wargear bringing them in line with the Demon Codex. TRUE - Sorcerers are pretty much the same with the ability to buy up to Master level 3, but they only ever have 2 wounds. TRUE - Chaos Lords are where it seems to be at, Phil Kelly wants you to design a Lord tailored to your army, their list of wargear options is easily the largest of any model in the book. Also remember they allow you to make Cult Units troops. TRUE
6th Ed - May 2012 Cross between 8th and 2nd, TRUE Imperium Fracturing, Protect the Tau, FALSE 6+ Psychic Save, TRUE Random Charges, TRUE Premeasuring, TRUE Purchase Buildings, TRUE Choose Powers during Depl,TRUE Double the Missions, TRUE Allies are Back (with specific ally types) TRUE
Seems pretty specific for me. Do they have vague entries and speculation occasionally? Sure. Are they also spot on months in advance for other things? Yep.
edit: Based on our warning, feel free to discuss rumor reliability here:
edit: and i know people are gonna say throw enough at the wall..... etc, but really 39% isnt too bad, as much as we would like 100% accuracy but on that number of rumors over how long. if it was he would need to be kirby himself haha
Tastytaste at Blood of Kittens - Total rumors: (118 TRUE) / (15 FALSE) / (12 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
75hastings69 - Total rumors: (60 TRUE) / (6 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Harry from Warseer - Total rumors: (32 TRUE) / (4 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Best Pone - Total rumors: (23 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
There you go, folks who have reliable info and share it with us after filtering, rather than just making crap up or posting everything that they see.
Thanks for actually posting stats on the rumors. I was wondering when someone would do that. I always look back and notice no one cares when a rumor is hella wrong
special rules:
leap, they just keep coming,synaptic back lash (tyranid warrior only) synapse creature (tyranid warrior only)
leap: may charge +6'' extra & do not lose initiative while charging through difficult terrain
they just keep coming: enemies firing at models with this rule suffer -1 bs. models with BS 1 must re-roll any successful hits on a model with this target.
synaptic back lash: after a model with this rules dies then all friendly units within 6'' of the models death suffer a single strength 3 AP - hit.
Old one eye to have his toughness increased
tyranid warriors
may add an additional 3 models
WS T SV 5 5 4+
Equipment:
piercing talons, leap, synaptic back lash,
special rules: will of the hive mind
upgrades:
toxic sacks: (read above)
adrenal glands: (read above)
range biomorph exoskeleton: (+1 bs)
increased exoskeleton: (+1 sv)
barbed strangler: (remains the same)
venom rifles: (tyranid rifles with poison) 18'' range (under re-testing)
will of the hive mind: while the squad remains with the full 3 models then the synapse range increases to 12''
carnifex:
may add an additional 2 models
T W
6 5
Equipment:
scything talons, piercing talons
special rules: rampant rage, living battering ram, natural disaster
upgrades:
Toxic sacks:
range biomorph exoskeleton:
armoured shell: (2+ save)_
crushing claws: (+d3 attacks & +1 to range AP)
reinforced plating: (reduced strength of weapon being fired at you by 1)
heavy venom cannon: (strength 9 AP 2 heavy 2)
barbed strangler: (strength 5 AP 5 large blast, pinning)
twin linked devourers: (strength 4 AP 6 assault 4)
rampant range: when charging units the carnifex gains rage & furious charge)
Living battering ram: the carnifex deals d3 hammer of wrath hits
natural disaster: if the carnifex forgoes its turn in a piece of terrain (ruins ect) it can destroy that terrain and remove it from play
This seems like a mixed bag of likely and wishlisty to me.
Hormagaunts:
Leap makes sense for the gaunts, though I'm on the fence on how the warrior sergeant idea is. Good and bad, but an interesting change I suppose. The setup makes them seem like a less intimidating Tervigon that can use the sqd as a meat shield. They Just Keep Coming seems almost too good to be true. By the by, are adrenal glands staying the same, or did I just miss that part?
Warriors:
They needed the T5 increase and I'm fine paying a few points extra for it. Yay not being one shotted by lascannons/plasma guns/PF!
Leap seems a bit out of sorts on the warriors though, but that's just IMHO.
Will they still have anything like Aplha Warrior if grouped with a Prime?
Carnifex:
I like all the potential stuff in this and think that the natural disaster ability is cool and themeatic to the creatures. Still, Upgrades for a 2+ AS seem unlikely to me.
volatileart wrote: This seems like a mixed bag of likely and wishlisty to me.
Hormagaunts:
Leap makes sense for the gaunts, though I'm on the fence on how the warrior sergeant idea is. Good and bad, but an interesting change I suppose. The setup makes them seem like a less intimidating Tervigon that can use the sqd as a meat shield. They Just Keep Coming seems almost too good to be true. By the by, are adrenal glands staying the same, or did I just miss that part?
Warriors:
They needed the T5 increase and I'm fine paying a few points extra for it. Yay not being one shotted by lascannons/plasma guns/PF!
Leap seems a bit out of sorts on the warriors though, but that's just IMHO.
Will they still have anything like Aplha Warrior if grouped with a Prime?
Carnifex:
I like all the potential stuff in this and think that the natural disaster ability is cool and themeatic to the creatures. Still, Upgrades for a 2+ AS seem unlikely to me.
Leap for warrior makes sense if they want warriors to be able to gear as CC warriors, assuming it comes at a cost. Judging from the Synapse rule for warriors requiring 3 of them to get Synapse to 12", I suspect we'll see a squad upgrade Warrior existing (as I posited before) purely to lend their LD stat to a gaunt brood. It makes 3 man/minimum warrior squads a risky proposition though, since lose a model and suddenly they no longer grant Synapse. (by the by, at S7 most plasma shouldn't be IDing your T4 warriors anyway. [unless you mean DA with their -1T nonsense...])
volatileart wrote: This seems like a mixed bag of likely and wishlisty to me.
Hormagaunts:
Leap makes sense for the gaunts, though I'm on the fence on how the warrior sergeant idea is. Good and bad, but an interesting change I suppose. The setup makes them seem like a less intimidating Tervigon that can use the sqd as a meat shield. They Just Keep Coming seems almost too good to be true. By the by, are adrenal glands staying the same, or did I just miss that part?
Warriors:
They needed the T5 increase and I'm fine paying a few points extra for it. Yay not being one shotted by lascannons/plasma guns/PF!
Leap seems a bit out of sorts on the warriors though, but that's just IMHO.
Will they still have anything like Aplha Warrior if grouped with a Prime?
Carnifex:
I like all the potential stuff in this and think that the natural disaster ability is cool and themeatic to the creatures. Still, Upgrades for a 2+ AS seem unlikely to me.
Leap for warrior makes sense if they want warriors to be able to gear as CC warriors, assuming it comes at a cost. Judging from the Synapse rule for warriors requiring 3 of them to get Synapse to 12", I suspect we'll see a squad upgrade Warrior existing (as I posited before) purely to lend their LD stat to a gaunt brood. It makes 3 man/minimum warrior squads a risky proposition though, since lose a model and suddenly they no longer grant Synapse. (by the by, at S7 most plasma shouldn't be IDing your T4 warriors anyway. [unless you mean DA with their -1T nonsense...])
Yeah, three consistent DA players here and that's a favored tactic against my bugs. Not a huge deal, but something that's been a thorn in my side in particular.
The warriors with Leap makes a bit more sense now that you put it in that perspective, though I'm still washy on how I feel about Warriors being sergeants aand the synapse stuff.
Did they plan on changing adrenal glads away from furious charge?
Yeah defiantly not a fan of having Warriors as sergeants for gaunts. But then again I build my army to be swarm. Large amounts of low LD models with some back line synapse to keep them under control. Obviously not a competitive player. I could also just not take the sergeants cause I be there are people who are in love with the idea.
The Shadow wrote:This all looks FANTASTIC. Can't wait.
Looks like Tervigons will still be good, do we reckon? I'm hesitant to buy some for a two-month use followed by a nerf and a shelving...
Whatever happens, it won't be a "nerf." We have to compare the November edition of the Tervigon to other 6th edition books. We have to look at what it does in conjunction with the 6th edition Tyranids army. Comparing across editions is just fodder for whining, not critical analysis.
I think the Tervigon will probably remain largely unchanged, but also won't be permitted to gain access to as many psychic powers. It will probably have a fixed, Primaris type power. Maybe I'll be wrong.
Even if the Tervigon isn't quite the auto-include anymore, that will likely mean the Tyranids cashed in throughout the remainder of the codex. More viable options is better than knowing which unit to ALWAYS take if you have any hopes of winning. I want list construction to be difficult; an overall part of the strategy, if you will. I don't like playing games so big where I can just stuff in whatever I want. Okay, Apocalypse is fun once in a while, but I absolutely love tough decisions in list design. I want to struggle when choosing between a giant blob of Hormagaunts, or a Tervigon + Termagants. I want to decide if scattered Warriors are my Synapse node of choice, or if I want a network of Tervigons. Do I want psychic offense or defense? Do I want to be anti-infantry or anti-armor? Do I want null deployment and timing attacks; or a synergistic mass? Tyranids are sorely lacking in choice and variety right now, so more options at the (sort of) expense of the Tervigon is fine with me.
The upcoming codex HAS to be better than the one we have. No need to worry.
Bugs have never and probably will never have a real powerbase of ranged AP. We have 3 weapons in our codex that have AP lower than 3. Two of those abilities are zoey abilities and the other is plasma with a range of suck. GW won't give us a way to spam anything lower than AP 4 let alone AP2. What do you think we are? Space marines?
Backlash wrote: Bugs have never and probably will never have a real powerbase of ranged AP. We have 3 weapons in our codex that have AP lower than 3. Two of those abilities are zoey abilities and the other is plasma with a range of suck. GW won't give us a way to spam anything lower than AP 4 let alone AP2. What do you think we are? Space marines?
But other armies won't have the ability to field the mass of MC's Tyranids can, or swarm like they can, or present a mess of target saturation like they can...
Not every army should have access to the same weaponry types. That would actually be less realistic, and really, REALLY boring.
Not every army should be the same. That's why we won't have AP spam and why I believe this latest batch of rumors arnt true. Besides who needs ap when I can just throw 90 shots into you per squad. Devil gaunts make me smile.
I really hope that rule about Harpies dragging fliers with them is true. Imagine how hilarious it would be to drag a Heldrake so its rear is facing your army, then glance it to death with devilgaunts...
Backlash wrote: Not every army should be the same. That's why we won't have AP spam and why I believe this latest batch of rumors arnt true. Besides who needs ap when I can just throw 90 shots into you per squad. Devil gaunts make me smile.
Oh, see. I thought you were complaining that they don't have access to a plethora of low AP stuff. GW doesn't favor Space Marines, from a rules standpoint, as some think. In fact, they are rarely the most competitive army at a given time. They get the fluff and publication love, but that's because we customers are stupid and always buy them.
[...] I want list construction to be difficult; an overall part of the strategy, if you will. I don't like playing games so big where I can just stuff in whatever I want. [...]
[...] I want list construction to be difficult; an overall part of the strategy, if you will. I don't like playing games so big where I can just stuff in whatever I want. [...]
You cannot do that it would scare the kids.
On a more serious note: Most of the 6th edition books have given us this though. Multiple builds, which are all competitively viable; units that are specialized and promote taking the right tool for the right job; less of the 5-man, we can do everything units; super powerful, but points-crunching units that require a compromise to fit in...
The big silly toys are what draws the kids in. List-building that requires thought helps us old guys stick around.
Ok so I know that these rumors should be take with a great deal of salt but they sound exciting. The only thing that I am worried about is that the way I read the rumors is that warriors will be like a sgt unit dose that mean I won't be able to run units of just warriors if not that would be disappointing. I like running big blobs of warriors that's kind if the theme of my custom hive fleet, that and I would have to start buying some gaunts I don't have very many :(
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: The only thing that I am worried about is that the way I read the rumors is that warriors will be like a sgt unit dose that mean I won't be able to run units of just warriors[? I]f not that would be disappointing. I like running big blobs of warriors that's kind if the theme of my custom hive fleet, that and I would have to start buying some gaunts I don't have very many :(
1) Who knows. The codex isn't out yet and no one has released terrable phone pictures of pages. I would highly doubt it, though. They will prbable function like Space Wolves, where you buy the unit an dhave the option to dole them out.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: Ok so I know that these rumors should be take with a great deal of salt but they sound exciting. The only thing that I am worried about is that the way I read the rumors is that warriors will be like a sgt unit dose that mean I won't be able to run units of just warriors if not that would be disappointing. I like running big blobs of warriors that's kind if the theme of my custom hive fleet, that and I would have to start buying some gaunts I don't have very many :(
You should have always had gaunts anyway, seeing as how they've been a staple of Tyranids for...ever.
I doubt you suddenly won't be able to run a unit of Warriors. There could even be a Supplement that plays around with different ways to play them too.
People need to keep the whole Supplement thing in mind.
Clang wrote: Supplements - now there's a thought. We might finally see Genestealer cult return (presuming it's not in the main dex).
So, tell me, would Genestealer Cults be one page of new artifacts and a warlord trait table for Tyranids or one page of new artifacts and a warlord table for Imperial Guard?
rigeld2 wrote: Probably IG with a short list of permitted ally Nid units.
Why short list?
After a planet has gotten a sufficiently large enough population infected with the Genestealer genes and the invasion begins, the genestealers fight in all phases of the invasion. They're simply the first to fight, first to fall.
gigasnail wrote: stealers, first to fight, first to fall. kind of like it is now?
Yea, which would be fine if they had appropriate points values to their current "distraction" battlefield role. Obviously I hope they get useful rules and abilities in the new book (Surprise! and "ravenous advance" would be nice.)
Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs. Genestealers have S4 and T4 on them, and the ability to take upgrades. Daemonettes cost less points than genestealers, are faster, and basically just as killy. They also get to deep strike, while stealers get infiltrate. Both can be taken in units of 20 models. Daemonettes don't need cover, since they get a 5++, which will only be beaten by a 4+ from ruins. Genestealers die if you look at them funny and are not currently in cover.
I think 8 points would be fair for a naked stealer, considering that it loses its save vs everything but ap-. Either that, or stealers need a overhaul in the stat line. They also need some way to get to combat somewhat safely. They don't need to be invincible, but there are few ways to protect them as they are now.
Loved my stealers in 5th, they were my most played troop choice. I haven't put any other than Ymgarls on the board in 6th because basically every rule change in 6th was a swift kick in the nuts for them. The fact that I'm seeing almost no rumors for them is kinda bugging me.
Killme304 wrote: Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs. Genestealers have S4 and T4 on them, and the ability to take upgrades. Daemonettes cost less points than genestealers, are faster, and basically just as killy. They also get to deep strike, while stealers get infiltrate. Both can be taken in units of 20 models.
I think 8 points would be fair for a naked stealer, considering that it loses its save vs everything but ap-. Either that, or stealers need a overhaul in the stat line.
I'd be fine with 10 pts, to account for the S4 and T4, and WS6
Killme304 wrote: Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs. Genestealers have S4 and T4 on them, and the ability to take upgrades. Daemonettes cost less points than genestealers, are faster, and basically just as killy. They also get to deep strike, while stealers get infiltrate. Both can be taken in units of 20 models. Daemonettes don't need cover, since they get a 5++, which will only be beaten by a 4+ from ruins. Genestealers die if you look at them funny and are not currently in cover.
I think 8 points would be fair for a naked stealer, considering that it loses its save vs everything but ap-. Either that, or stealers need a overhaul in the stat line. They also need some way to get to combat somewhat safely. They don't need to be invincible, but there are few ways to protect them as they are now.
Loved my stealers in 5th, they were my most played troop choice. I haven't put any other than Ymgarls on the board in 6th because basically every rule change in 6th was a swift kick in the nuts for them. The fact that I'm seeing almost no rumors for them is kinda bugging me.
Stealers get the all mighty Broodlord...Daemonettes get a crappy Alluress.
I currently treat my stealers as ablative wounds to the Brrodlord powerhouse
Killme304 wrote: Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs. Genestealers have S4 and T4 on them, and the ability to take upgrades. Daemonettes cost less points than genestealers, are faster, and basically just as killy. They also get to deep strike, while stealers get infiltrate. Both can be taken in units of 20 models. Daemonettes don't need cover, since they get a 5++, which will only be beaten by a 4+ from ruins. Genestealers die if you look at them funny and are not currently in cover.
I think 8 points would be fair for a naked stealer, considering that it loses its save vs everything but ap-. Either that, or stealers need a overhaul in the stat line. They also need some way to get to combat somewhat safely. They don't need to be invincible, but there are few ways to protect them as they are now.
Loved my stealers in 5th, they were my most played troop choice. I haven't put any other than Ymgarls on the board in 6th because basically every rule change in 6th was a swift kick in the nuts for them. The fact that I'm seeing almost no rumors for them is kinda bugging me.
Stealers get the all mighty Broodlord...Daemonettes get a crappy Alluress.
I currently treat my stealers as ablative wounds to the Brrodlord powerhouse
Comparing units across codices is always a futile effort, because neither are backed by the same things. Granted, Genestealers are way more expensive, and surrounded by worse support.
Hydra over at Warpshadow wrote:A Lictor of mine told me, that the skymother will bring us new goodness at the start of the next year.
Magos Kelly, asked about this, just smirked (as you can see on the frontpage) and reminded me about the trouble he got into the last time something passed his lips.
You should have seen the glitter and the endless hunger in his eyes...
So his sources say: No Tyranids in November. Still not convinced.
Hydra over at Warpshadow wrote:A Lictor of mine told me, that the skymother will bring us new goodness at the start of the next year.
Magos Kelly, asked about this, just smirked (as you can see on the frontpage) and reminded me about the trouble he got into the last time something passed his lips.
You should have seen the glitter and the endless hunger in his eyes...
So his sources say: No Tyranids in November. Still not convinced.
First off, why would a Lictor tell anyone anything? Lictors talking, the very concept is laughable. If they wanted to do some kind of fluffy message as to when Nids would come out then something along the lines of 'As of yet, no vanguard elements have been spotted but there have been disturbing reports from far away systems.'
Secondly, Kelly didn't confirm or deny but he did show that he knows the answer. A smirk typically means 'wrong' so, if anything, Nids are before 2014 or after January 2014.
Daemonettes cost 9 points, have a 5++, rend, and get extra distance on runs.
Do they get move through cover and a psychic uber sgt? Do they not also have the instability (or is that just fantasy?)
The broodlord, while great in challenges, offers little (almost none) protection from shooting attacks. Also only 3/7 biomancy powers are useful for him thanks to BS0.
So even with broodlords, genestealers overall still deserve a points decrease. In that same vein of comparison look at a 50 pt canoptek spyder (necrons) vs the 160 point carnifexes. It makes me weep.
Personally, I'm still hoping for them to give Stealers and Lictors AP3 close combat attacks. They should be as deadly to a Marine in assault as a Narine is to them at range.
I found this image on deviant art, from an artist who does a lot of sculpts for Avatars of War, Reaper and yes, GW.
It is IP protected so i thought it was a fair bet that we might be looking at the new Red Terror.
What are you guys talking about, I loooove the old Red Terror model! I agree it might be a bit small with how big the bugs have gotten for nids lately, but it was always my favorite sculpt for tyranids
The funny thing about the Red Terror is the artwork for it made it look bigger than the current Mawloc.
Bit, Kroot has the right of it. The Red Terror just became the Mawloc. The fluff description for it was even inconsistent - some claims were that it was the size of a Ravener, others a Trygon. So it's logical to assume that the 3rd edition Red Terror was more of a test bed for making a Mawloc type unit. Now the Hive Mind is happy with it, it's in general use as the Mawloc. The same could be said for Old One Eye - in 3rd edition, it was the only Carnifex that could take Regeneration. In 4th, all Carnifexes could take it. They tested it on Old One Eye, tweaked it, and put it in general production.
The Red Terror changing size in different engagements implies it was being changed until they found the ideal creature. It's also worth mentioning there's still Raveners and Trygons, which seemed to be the test creatures for the Mawloc through the Red Terror.
While the Doom of Malan'tai is a mutation of the Zoanthrope, it's not a replacement, just like the Mawloc wasn't a replacement for the Trygon or Ravener.
-Loki- wrote: The Red Terror changing size in different engagements implies it was being changed until they found the ideal creature.
Or that there were multiple 'Red Terrors', which is also entirely possible, or that aforementioned strain of Tyranid was a stunted version of the as-of-yet unseen Mawloc... many possibilities!
The point is there, though. The Red Terror doesn't offer anything unique. At least the Parasite (although nobody uses it) is unique, if not entirely in a good way. If they were to reintroduce the Red Terror, it would have to be significant - and 'eating peeps whole' isn't unique anymore. Besides, it's not like it can't exist in the fluff, not every character has to be represented by a set of special rules. If you really wanted a Red Terror, just convert up a Mawloc! That said, one really has to wonder why Leviathan hasn't put Deathleaper into mass-production, since it was definitely not a mutation or anything (it's described as being deliberately created as the ultimate assassin). It's not like it could cost that much more biomass than a regular Lictor!
EDIT: I want Lictors to be good. I like Lictors. :'c
Lictors are assassins - the Deathleaper was made to be a terror weapon. For example, the fluff about it killing everything except the opposing commander over and over to demoralise him.
Lictors don't have to be all made into Deathleapers rules-wise to be good. They just need to be fixed, as the groundwork is there. GW just keeps fething up when they try to fix them.
rigeld2 wrote: So in the next codex all Zoeys can get Spirit Leech? :-)
Muahahahahahahahahaha
Spirit Leech is likely going to become something like a Nova version of Life Leech. Doubt it will remain the stupidly broken non-psychic ability it is now.
-Loki- wrote: Lictors are assassins - the Deathleaper was made to be a terror weapon. For example, the fluff about it killing everything except the opposing commander over and over to demoralise him.
Lictors don't have to be all made into Deathleapers rules-wise to be good. They just need to be fixed, as the groundwork is there. GW just keeps fething up when they try to fix them.
I didn't mean from a rules perspective. Deathleaper is clearly superior to other Lictors, and there is no fluff explanation as to why it's not the standard model. I'd understand if there was something like "Deathleaper is weaker, but stealthier" (which would work; it's a fear weapon, and Lictors are massive! Deathy could have a lighter, faster build, designed for squeezing through ducts and stuff, without the same 'hardiness' as a true Lictor), but there isn't! In every area that Deathleaper isn't better than the Lictor, it is exactly the same. Then it has its own unique stuff going on. The only thing Lictors have over Deathleaper is being about a third of the cost and that they can be taken in Broods, but that doesn't help (also, if they just turned all Lictors into Deathleaper it would suck because they'd be 140pts each).
The biggest issue is that whole "I will show up unexpectedly and surprise everyone! And then stand there uselessly and get shot to death immediately" special rule that Lictors seem to have. It's like they "lie in wait for days", as fluff says, and then, when the time is right, they stand up, yell "Boo!" at an enemy unit, and then stare awkwardly at them until the enemy have a chance to shoot them. This is an 'ambush'. Fearsome.
The biggest issue is that whole "I will show up unexpectedly and surprise everyone! And then stand there uselessly and get shot to death immediately" special rule that Lictors seem to have. It's like they "lie in wait for days", as fluff says, and then, when the time is right, they stand up, yell "Boo!" at an enemy unit, and then stare awkwardly at them until the enemy have a chance to shoot them. This is an 'ambush'. Fearsome.
Yup, needs to be "I will show up unexpectedly and surprise everyone and rip someone's head off, and I'll keep ripping heads off until either you shoot me to bits or there are no more heads to rip off" - sort of a close-combat glass cannon, if that makes sense. The Lictor has always been really cool fluffwise, and rules to match that fluff should be possible, without being broken or stupidly expensive.
Honestly in the trend of 6th no assaulting from reserves is a pretty guaranteed thing. However, the lictors could still be fluffy and effective if the "surprise!" Rumor is true. Especially if it causes all units within 12" to snap fire regardless of target - boom, the lictor becomes a disruption unit.
For his assault to be effective however the lictor really needs a 4++ dodge save in close combat, like wyches.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:
This is from the latest test codex to finalize the rules for the upcoming codex.
HQ:
Hive tyrant:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 8 4 7 7 5 6 5 10 3+
composition: 1 Hive tyrant
Unit type: monsterous creature
Weapons and biomorphs:
Bonded exoskeleton
bone sword (challenge weapon)
lash wip (changed: -4 to enemies initative)
scything talons
special rules:
Synapse creature
psyker mastery level 3
overlord (+1 to movement & charge distance for army until death of unit)
shadow in the warp (changed: -4 to enemy physic tests within 12'')
leaderless (death of unit will cause strengh 4 AP - hits to all units within 12'')
physic powers:(under testing)
options:
add an additional set of scything talons: free
replace scything talons with heavy venom cannon:
stranglethorn cannon: (changed: 15pts)
twin linked death spitters: (changed: strength 5 AP 4 assault 4) :
may take the following:
Adrenal glands: 5pts
toxic sacks:
acid blood:
implant attack : (changed: challenge weapon) :
toxic miasma:
regeneration: (changed: 5+ to regain a wound at the end of the turn) :
Alpha regeneration: (4+ to geain a wound at the end of the turn):
May take up to two upgrades:
armoured shell:
wings:
spore field (-1 to enemy BS when firing at model):
physic shield (4+ invunrible save)
Swarmlord:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 10 0 8 7 6 7 6 10 2+/4+
Composition: 1 Swarmlord
Unit type: Character Monsterous creature
Weapons and biomorphs:
Bonesabres (challenge weapon)
armoured shell
physic shield
special rules:
synapse creature (18'' range)
phyker mastery level 4
swarm leader: (changed: give one unit: rage, fear or feel no pain)
undying beast: gains eternal warrior special rule
blade parry: (changed: gains +1 attack for every enemy model in base contact. striking at initative step 7)
shadow in the warp
painfull loss: (once the unit is killed ALL models must take a unmodified leadership test (including units under synapse) the amount you fail by
on your leadership test is the amount of wounds a unit must take)
physic powers: (under testing)
Tervigon:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 4 0 6 6 6 1 2 10 3+
Composition: 1 tervigon
unit type: monsterous creature
weapons and biomorphs: (Unchanged)
special rules:
synapse creature: (12'' range)
brood progenitor
pysker mastery level 2
shadow in the warp
spawn termagaunts
it will not die
physic powers: (under testing)
Must take one of the following:
scything talons:
piercing talons: (+1 stength)
crushing claws: (changed:
spore field:
can take one of the following:
adrenal glands :
toxic sacks:
acid blood:
toxic miasma:
regeneration:
Tyranid prime:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 6 4 6 5 4 5 4 10 3+
Composition: 1 tyranid prime
unit type: infantry
weapons and biomorphs:
scything talons
rending claws
implant attack
special rules:
synapse creature:(6'')
alpha warrior: (changed: if unit joins warriors then synapse range increases to 12'' also allows squad to use WS)
shadow in the warp
replace scything talons with:
pair of bone swords (changed: challenge weapons) :
lash wip and bone sword:
may take the following:
adrenal glands:
toxic sacks:
regeneration:
physic shield:
ranged weaponry: (under going beta testing)
The parasite of mortrex:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 6 0 5 5 2 6 3 10 3+
Composition: 1 parasite of mortex
unit type: jump infatry
weapons and biomorphs: (unchanged)
special rules: (unchanged)
Hive guard:
You may include a squad of hive guard if you take either the hive tyrand or the swarmlord
(these do not count towards your HQ slots)
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 4 0 6 6 1 4 3 7 3+
Unit composition: 1-3 hive guard
unit type: infatry (character)
weapons and biomorphs:
rending claws
scything talons
boned exoskeleton
Just because the changes to ballistic skill would make so many random psychic powers useless I doubt this is close to ready. Plus, I don't see Hive Tyrants as lvl 3 psykers base. I could see lvl 1 upgradeable to 2. And Swarmlord a 4? Naw, seem a bit over the top too in other ways. But I could see them playtesting this.
HQ:
Hive tyrant:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 8 4 7 7 5 6 5 10 3+
Finally hitting the broad side of a barn - yay!
Also - S and T boost? Not likely to stick around imo.
bone sword (challenge weapon)
lash wip (changed: -4 to enemies initative)
Expected the Lash Whip to change - what's the "challenge weapon" note?
psyker mastery level 3
overlord (+1 to movement & charge distance for army until death of unit)
shadow in the warp (changed: -4 to enemy physic tests within 12'')
leaderless (death of unit will cause strengh 4 AP - hits to all units within 12'')
ML3 rawr!
Overlord looks interesting. Shadows nerf is expected and not bad.
I really dislike the "Leaderless" rule. Unless Synapse is a benefit instead of a curse.
options:
add an additional set of scything talons: free
replace scything talons with heavy venom cannon:
stranglethorn cannon: (changed: 15pts)
twin linked death spitters: (changed: strength 5 AP 4 assault 4) :
... No Brain-Leech? Sad panda.
regeneration: (changed: 5+ to regain a wound at the end of the turn) :
Alpha regeneration: (4+ to geain a wound at the end of the turn):
spore field (-1 to enemy BS when firing at model):
physic shield (4+ invunrible save)
Yay invul!
Swarmlord:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 10 0 8 7 6 7 6 10 2+/4+
4++ outside of combat and a 2+ save? Good.
I hope the Nid psyker tables don't have any witchfires or that BS0 is going to piss me off.
S 8 and T7 though...
swarm leader: (changed: give one unit: rage, fear or feel no pain)
Right, so the first two might as well not exist - the first isn't that great, the second is useless when half of the armies in the game ignore it.
undying beast: gains eternal warrior special rule
zomfgbqwtfawesome
blade parry: (changed: gains +1 attack for every enemy model in base contact. striking at initative step 7)
... Interesting? Wonder how it interacts with challenges.
painfull loss: (once the unit is killed ALL models must take a unmodified leadership test (including units under synapse) the amount you fail by
on your leadership test is the amount of wounds a unit must take)
... And he just went from a character I'd take to useless. Thanks!
Tervigon:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 4 0 6 6 6 1 2 10 3+
... BS0? Taking away the gun? Why?
weapons and biomorphs: (Unchanged)
Lawl. So it still has the gun but can't fire it?
it will not die
Interesting.
regeneration:
If it's the same 5+ regen that + IWND will be fun.
Tyranid prime:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 6 4 6 5 4 5 4 10 3+
S and W bump - nice.
special rules:
synapse creature:(6'')
alpha warrior: (changed: if unit joins warriors then synapse range increases to 12'' also allows squad to use WS)
shadow in the warp
Went from a "HQ I'd use in low points games" to "Nevermind - only going to take in a warrior heavy army"
physic shield:
oooh... invul save.
Hive guard:
You may include a squad of hive guard if you take either the hive tyrand or the swarmlord
(these do not count towards your HQ slots)
Hive Guard =/= Tyrant guard. GW wouldn't mix em up even in beta, because they do drastically different things.
BS0 is also handed out way too often to psykers. This would mean rolling of completely useless powers.
It's also basically the current dex options. I find it hard to believe GW can't come up with different options for our guys to have.
The stat bumps look kinda wish-listy, and that prime could not maintain a low point value when hes basically 4 MoN marines strapped together.
Then there are the references to challenge weapons all over the place. It would not make sense for a weapon to only be available in challenges. And if it is available all the time, why would there be mentions to it at all?
Forget salt, this thing needs to be disregarded altogether. I call BS.
Hive Guard =/= Tyrant guard. GW wouldn't mix em up even in beta, because they do drastically different things.
It isn't likely to be a copy/paste of a document, rather a re-telling of what's contained. People mix them up all the time even looking at the codex page.
BS0 is also handed out way too often to psykers. This would mean rolling of completely useless powers.
Unless there are no witchfires on the Nid tables. Which is possible.
It's also basically the current dex options. I find it hard to believe GW can't come up with different options for our guys to have.
Did you miss the invuls? And that this isn't the entire codex?
The stat bumps look kinda wish-listy, and that prime could not maintain a low point value when hes basically 4 MoN marines strapped together.
Agreed.
Forget salt, this thing needs to be disregarded altogether. I call BS.
I'm not putting any real faith into it, but I don't see that.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212 wrote:Elite
Hive Guard brood
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 4 4 5 6 2 1 2 8 3+
Composition: 1-3 hive guard
unit type: Infantry
weapons and biomorphs:
Claws and teeth
impaler cannon
bonded exoskeleton
special rules:
instinctive behaviour - lurk
sky fire
interceptor
weaponry: (changed : strength 7 AP 3 assault 3) Note: guns no longer ignore cover saves.
Lictor brood:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 7 4 6 4 2 8 3 10 5+
Composition: 1-3 lictors
Unit type: infatry
Weapons and biomorphs:
chameleonic skin (changed: +1 cover while in jungles and ruins)
flesh hooks (changed: range 12'' strength 6 AP 2 assault 2 pull) - pull: pull an indipendant character out
a unit and into combat
reinforced chitin
rending claws
scything talons
special rules:
prey: (pick an indipendant character at the begining of the game, able to re-roll hits & wounds against that target)
fleet
counter attack
move through cover
stealth
natual reflexes (5+ invunerable save)
spore field
Venomthrope brood:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 3 0 * 4 2 4 3 7 5+
Composition: 1-3 venomthropes
unit type: infatry
Weapons and biomorphs:
lash whips
reinforced chitin
toxic miasma
speical rules:
instinctive behaviour - feed
spore cloud (changed:5+ cover save for all units in 6'' & strength 6 AP - hit for all enemy units within 6'')
toix touch (wound on 2+)
spread poision: (grants a unit within 6'' the poision special rule)
spore field
Zoanthrope brood : (non completion until psyic powers finallised
doom of malan'tai: (non completion until psyic pwers finallised
Pyrovore brood:(changes)
. +1 toughness
. +1 wound
. weapon now has torrent
Ymgarl geanstealers:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 5 0 5 4 1 6 3 10 5+
unit composition: 5-10 ymgarl geanstealers
unit type: infatry
weapons and biomorphs:
rending claws
reinforced chitin
special rules:
rage
brood telephathy
fleet
move through cover
toxic cloud (units may not overwatch against this target)
bounderble leap (+6'' charge range and ignores effects of difficult terrian)
Hive Guard brood
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 4 4 5 6 2 1 2 8 3+
S buff for no reason. Meh.
sky fire
interceptor
Not a chance.
weaponry: (changed : strength 7 AP 3 assault 3) Note: guns no longer ignore cover saves.
... I can dream can't I?
chameleonic skin (changed: +1 cover while in jungles and ruins)
I can see them doing this. It would suck, but I can see it.
flesh hooks (changed: range 12'' strength 6 AP 2 assault 2 pull) - pull: pull an indipendant character out
a unit and into combat
special rules:
prey: (pick an indipendant character at the begining of the game, able to re-roll hits & wounds against that target)
fleet
counter attack
move through cover
stealth
natual reflexes (5+ invunerable save)
spore field
... interesting.
Venomthrope brood:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 3 0 * 4 2 4 3 7 5+
*? What? S is used for more than melee attacks.
spore cloud (changed:5+ cover save for all units in 6'' & strength 6 AP - hit for all enemy units within 6'')
toix touch (wound on 2+)
spread poision: (grants a unit within 6'' the poision special rule)
spore field
Again, not a chance.
Pyrovore brood:(changes)
. +1 toughness
. +1 wound
. weapon now has torrent
Interesting. Might be worth playing them some.
Ymgarl geanstealers:
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 5 0 5 4 1 6 3 10 5+
special rules:
rage
brood telephathy
fleet
move through cover
toxic cloud (units may not overwatch against this target)
bounderble leap (+6'' charge range and ignores effects of difficult terrian)
So no more Dormant?
Why the armor save nerf? Why the WS nerf? Mutation is gone?
The last two sound pretty wishlisty...
That's very true! I guess with the Pull thing (which I don't see being real, but we'll roll with it) they could at least pull characters out and demolish them. Fits with the fluff, but good luck getting your unit in place.
That's very true! I guess with the Pull thing (which I don't see being real, but we'll roll with it) they could at least pull characters out and demolish them. Fits with the fluff, but good luck getting your unit in place.
Also, it would appear they could do this when they emerge, as they're not assaulting, they're firing a weapon that may have an assault as a consequence.
Absolutionis wrote: The "pull" ability on the Lictors is actually rather funny. They can't assault after DSing, but they can 'pull' a character into combat.
I honestly hope that part is real. It seems like a goofy rule that would be amusing to play with.
As long as they word it appropriately, or its going to go the way of the Furioso Magna-Grapple (i.e. broken and unusable). Not to mention it doesn't say that Lictors can deepstrike, or infiltrate. I'm assuming they still can?
I think, at best, these rumors are incorrect/incomplete. At worst, just plain wrong.
Absolutionis wrote: The "pull" ability on the Lictors is actually rather funny. They can't assault after DSing, but they can 'pull' a character into combat.
I honestly hope that part is real. It seems like a goofy rule that would be amusing to play with.
As long as they word it appropriately, or its going to go the way of the Furioso Magna-Grapple (i.e. broken and unusable). Not to mention it doesn't say that Lictors can deepstrike, or infiltrate. I'm assuming they still can?
I think, at best, these rumors are incorrect/incomplete. At worst, just plain wrong.
That was what I noticed as well, hence my "assuming they make it there" comment. No deep strike, no infiltrate, no "pop up wherever I damn well please!". Just deploy like everything else.
I am not buying in to this rumor set, there are too many red flags for me.
Freakfish- i don't think we've really seen any solid info yet for the Tyranids other than release. Release is expected in November.
One thing you can do if you are convinced you are going to start tyranids is look for some super cheap used modesl deals. Gaunts may change a little bit with rumored spike rifles in the kits or what not but i think if you got some gaunts cheap, super cheap hormagaunts on the hope they don't blow with the new codex, a tervigon or 2, a hive tyrant and other things that will still be around post codex it might save you a ton of moolah.
rigeld2 wrote: "This far out"?
If GW isn't sending stuff to the printers soon it won't hit in November.
This is a rumored November release right? We don't usually get rules leak until a couple weeks before the prerelease orders go up.
This. Even the Space Marines, the most important release in table top gaming (every time they drop), didn't have rules or picture leaks until much closer to it's release.
rigeld2 wrote: "This far out"?
If GW isn't sending stuff to the printers soon it won't hit in November.
This is a rumored November release right? We don't usually get rules leak until a couple weeks before the prerelease orders go up.
This. Even the Space Marines, the most important release in table top gaming (every time they drop), didn't have rules or picture leaks until much closer to it's release.
Genestealers and tyranids in general are just as much a pinnacle of the 40k universe in general as Marines are.
It only makes sense that if GW wants to start releasing their Ultramarine rumors so that players can save money for the holiday season, they're going to release the bugs as well.
It only makes sense that if GW wants to start releasing their Ultramarine rumors so that players can save money for the holiday season, they're going to release the bugs as well.
When it comes to GW...follow the money.
This is GW, they do nothing that makes sense. BUT then again, maybe something so big, and they know people will be saving for Christmas, give some "rumours" now so we
can start saving, otherwise, Tyranids if true for Nidvember, would not be a major success. At least I know, I need to start saving now. If GW only gave me a 4 week release rumour
then I would be kissing Tyranids good bye until Christmas is over. So that would mean some time in 2014 would be my purchase.
Good move on GW part on releasing "rumours" for Tyranids if true.
But I have a feeling all these rumours are false and we will not get a release until 2014. Jan the earliest. If Nids to get a Nov release that is only a 3 year cycle for the codex.
Well 3.8 year cycle, not a full 4 year cycle.
rigeld2 wrote: "This far out"?
If GW isn't sending stuff to the printers soon it won't hit in November.
This is a rumored November release right? We don't usually get rules leak until a couple weeks before the prerelease orders go up.
This. Even the Space Marines, the most important release in table top gaming (every time they drop), didn't have rules or picture leaks until much closer to it's release.
Genestealers and tyranids in general are just as much a pinnacle of the 40k universe in general as Marines are.
It only makes sense that if GW wants to start releasing their Ultramarine rumors so that players can save money for the holiday season, they're going to release the bugs as well.
When it comes to GW...follow the money.
The whole, "Get information early so people can start saving..." is nonsense. People should be saving all the time anyway. It's called being responsible. Then, whether your army is coming in November or next July, you've got money for it, and money in the event of some emergency at the same time.
Also, Space Marines outsell the rest of the 40k armies combined, so Tyranids really aren't the pinnacle of anything. According to the fluff, they are the biggest enemy, because they are the one common enemy of every faction, but their sales don't touch Space Marines. They never have. The customers drive that, so in a roundabout way, "follow the money" is sufficient.
Real information will start dropping about 4 weeks out from pre-order. All of these currently going around could just be creamy diarrhea, which would make me sad (for selfish reasons). What we do know, is that way more people are talking about Tyranids than either IG or Orks, or even Dark Elves (set to drop in October). Somebody somewhere must have seen something to get it all started; or the people who really know are just trying to smoke out the alleged rumor-mongers who pretend to know things but don't. Kill the moles, and all.
The whole, "Get information early so people can start saving..." is nonsense. People should be saving all the time anyway. It's called being responsible. Then, whether your army is coming in November or next July, you've got money for it, and money in the event of some emergency at the same time.
Also, Space Marines outsell the rest of the 40k armies combined, so Tyranids really aren't the pinnacle of anything. According to the fluff, they are the biggest enemy, because they are the one common enemy of every faction, but their sales don't touch Space Marines. They never have. The customers drive that, so in a roundabout way, "follow the money" is sufficient.
Real information will start dropping about 4 weeks out from pre-order. All of these currently going around could just be creamy diarrhea, which would make me sad (for selfish reasons). What we do know, is that way more people are talking about Tyranids than either IG or Orks, or even Dark Elves (set to drop in October). Somebody somewhere must have seen something to get it all started; or the people who really know are just trying to smoke out the alleged rumor-mongers who pretend to know things but don't. Kill the moles, and all.
Agreed. Maybe most or all of these rumors are nonsense (even though I wouldn't mind them being real, haha), but just the fact that so many Tyranid rumors have cropped over over the past month should tell us something. The new book is coming, maybe in November or maybe in January, but it's coming sooner rather than later.
The whole, "Get information early so people can start saving..." is nonsense. People should be saving all the time anyway. It's called being responsible. Then, whether your army is coming in November or next July, you've got money for it, and money in the event of some emergency at the same time.
Also, Space Marines outsell the rest of the 40k armies combined, so Tyranids really aren't the pinnacle of anything. According to the fluff, they are the biggest enemy, because they are the one common enemy of every faction, but their sales don't touch Space Marines. They never have. The customers drive that, so in a roundabout way, "follow the money" is sufficient.
Real information will start dropping about 4 weeks out from pre-order. All of these currently going around could just be creamy diarrhea, which would make me sad (for selfish reasons). What we do know, is that way more people are talking about Tyranids than either IG or Orks, or even Dark Elves (set to drop in October). Somebody somewhere must have seen something to get it all started; or the people who really know are just trying to smoke out the alleged rumor-mongers who pretend to know things but don't. Kill the moles, and all.
Agreed. Maybe most or all of these rumors are nonsense (even though I wouldn't mind them being real, haha), but just the fact that so many Tyranid rumors have cropped over over the past month should tell us something. The new book is coming, maybe in November or maybe in January, but it's coming sooner rather than later.
That logic proves to not work anymore... After the whole Summer of Fliers debacle....
The whole, "Get information early so people can start saving..." is nonsense. People should be saving all the time anyway. It's called being responsible. Then, whether your army is coming in November or next July, you've got money for it, and money in the event of some emergency at the same time.
Also, Space Marines outsell the rest of the 40k armies combined, so Tyranids really aren't the pinnacle of anything. According to the fluff, they are the biggest enemy, because they are the one common enemy of every faction, but their sales don't touch Space Marines. They never have. The customers drive that, so in a roundabout way, "follow the money" is sufficient.
Real information will start dropping about 4 weeks out from pre-order. All of these currently going around could just be creamy diarrhea, which would make me sad (for selfish reasons). What we do know, is that way more people are talking about Tyranids than either IG or Orks, or even Dark Elves (set to drop in October). Somebody somewhere must have seen something to get it all started; or the people who really know are just trying to smoke out the alleged rumor-mongers who pretend to know things but don't. Kill the moles, and all.
Agreed. Maybe most or all of these rumors are nonsense (even though I wouldn't mind them being real, haha), but just the fact that so many Tyranid rumors have cropped over over the past month should tell us something. The new book is coming, maybe in November or maybe in January, but it's coming sooner rather than later.
That logic proves to not work anymore... After the whole Summer of Fliers debacle....
People started that twice, but followed it up with nothing. Hardly any info, and the big-shot rumor mongers never backed it. The first go around, we ended up with the Death from the Skies supplement. The second go round, people claimed to see fliers for particular armies; one of which was the Harpy that has allegedly been done for a while, but another was the Eldar flier which did come out. It came with the Codex, sure, but it came. The logic stands to reason: someone saw something and discussions began. The information doesn't all have to be true, but it points to something. With how many Tyranid rumors have started, and how much information is circulating - even if most of it proves to be false - I doubt this is all for nothing. The same big-shot rumor mongers have stated that IG, Orks, and Tyranids are the next 3, and one of them claimed Tyranids are before the other two.
The Chaos Space Marines received an onslaught of rumors before their release, most of which turned out to be false, but they still ended up the next army. It's like a game of telephone, sure, but someone dropped the pebble into the bathtub at some point.
brassangel wrote: The whole, "Get information early so people can start saving..." is nonsense. People should be saving all the time anyway. It's called being responsible. Then, whether your army is coming in November or next July, you've got money for it, and money in the event of some emergency at the same time.
You do realize there's a difference between saving hobby money and saving household money, right?
I allow myself a couple hundred a month for hobby stuff. If there's something big coming up soon I save that money up and blow it all at once. I never dip into my household savings for hobby money, but I have dipped into hobby money for household stuff. Hobby money is spent on "emergencies" before dipping into household funds.
So thanks for the irresponsible assumption, no matter how wrong it was.
brassangel wrote: The whole, "Get information early so people can start saving..." is nonsense. People should be saving all the time anyway. It's called being responsible. Then, whether your army is coming in November or next July, you've got money for it, and money in the event of some emergency at the same time.
You do realize there's a difference between saving hobby money and saving household money, right?
I allow myself a couple hundred a month for hobby stuff. If there's something big coming up soon I save that money up and blow it all at once. I never dip into my household savings for hobby money, but I have dipped into hobby money for household stuff. Hobby money is spent on "emergencies" before dipping into household funds.
So thanks for the irresponsible assumption, no matter how wrong it was.
It wasn't wrong; thanks for not reading what I said, bitterpants. I have frequently referred to a "hobby fund" in my posts about the subject. It is separate from household money, emergency funds (so as to avoid people stupidly using Credit Cards for "emergencies"), car repairs, utilities, groceries, gas, etc. If you break down every last dime that comes in and goes out, you'd be surprised how little money you can make and still get through life. My point is, if you can't save for your hobby at least a little every month, then you simply don't have the means to warrant spending on it anyway. The money isn't going to suddenly come out of nowhere because you find out what's being released in 3 months. If you treat your money with the same discipline at all times, you'll be able to readily buy the stuff you want, when you want it. If something urgent comes up, you obviously sacrifice the hobby to prioritize important things. If you manage your money properly, you usually won't have to do that though.
Back on topic: I'm starting to think Tyranids are coming soon for the same reason Chaos Space Marines were coming. We received a slew of rumors, most ended up false, but it all started because someone heard something somewhere. We are hearing NOTHING about any army besides Tyranids right now, so true, false, or indifferent, that's the army with interest and information buzzing around.
brassangel wrote:Also, Space Marines outsell the rest of the 40k armies combined...
Wasn't it that Space Marines outsold the Fantasy armies combined, not the 40k armies?
brassangel wrote:Back on topic: I'm starting to think Tyranids are coming soon for the same reason Chaos Space Marines were coming. We received a slew of rumors, most ended up false, but it all started because someone heard something somewhere. We are hearing NOTHING about any army besides Tyranids right now, so true, false, or indifferent, that's the army with interest and information buzzing around.
There were some Ork and IG rumours a short while back (plastic Meganobz and Steel Legion and whatnot). But of course, these seem to require a fair amount of salt considering the sources, and are far less in number than the amount of 'Nid stuff thrown around.
Still, I'm not getting too excited until someone credible like Best_Pone, Hastings or Harry chimes in.
Rumbleguts wrote: Just because the changes to ballistic skill would make so many random psychic powers useless I doubt this is close to ready. Plus, I don't see Hive Tyrants as lvl 3 psykers base. I could see lvl 1 upgradeable to 2. And Swarmlord a 4? Naw, seem a bit over the top too in other ways. But I could see them playtesting this.
IF you can't use a psychic power, you can re-roll it.
Or maybe that's just for WC two powers of PML one psykers.
Rumbleguts wrote: Just because the changes to ballistic skill would make so many random psychic powers useless I doubt this is close to ready. Plus, I don't see Hive Tyrants as lvl 3 psykers base. I could see lvl 1 upgradeable to 2. And Swarmlord a 4? Naw, seem a bit over the top too in other ways. But I could see them playtesting this.
IF you can't use a psychic power, you can re-roll it.
Or maybe that's just for WC two powers of PML one psykers.
It is indeed only for WC2 powers, the Broodlord has this situation in the current codex/faq and he is not allowed a re-roll.
Bell of Lost Souls 8/27/13 "Regarding the Mycetic Spore wrote:
They rain down from the Hiveships, gelatenous bags of vile ichor and malevolence. Here's the latest word on the Mycetic Spore said to arriving with the upcoming Tyranids.
-Mycetic Spore is coming with the new Tyranid release
-Plastic combo-kit that makes the Spore and another large bug.
-It is an enormous creature, with an immense abdomen/transport sac, that spills over the sides of a standard oval base.
-It has tiny vestigial arms similar to a Zoanthropes, and a head with a tentacle ringed maw.
-The giant abdomen/sac looks swollen, and has internal protuberances looking like Tyranid creatures are stretching the skin from within, about to rip their way out...
-It has forward arms options that can be upgraded for various biomorph/weapon options.
-The secondary creature build option replaces the abdomen/sac with something entirely different.
That sounds horribly disgusting - I want it.
If this lines up with the other rumors, then the secondary creature will be the Hive Node. Either way, I better start setting aside some Tyranid Funds
Bell of Lost Souls 8/27/13 "Regarding the Mycetic Spore wrote:
They rain down from the Hiveships, gelatenous bags of vile ichor and malevolence. Here's the latest word on the Mycetic Spore said to arriving with the upcoming Tyranids.
-Mycetic Spore is coming with the new Tyranid release
-Plastic combo-kit that makes the Spore and another large bug.
-It is an enormous creature, with an immense abdomen/transport sac, that spills over the sides of a standard oval base.
-It has tiny vestigial arms similar to a Zoanthropes, and a head with a tentacle ringed maw.
-The giant abdomen/sac looks swollen, and has internal protuberances looking like Tyranid creatures are stretching the skin from within, about to rip their way out...
-It has forward arms options that can be upgraded for various biomorph/weapon options.
-The secondary creature build option replaces the abdomen/sac with something entirely different.
That sounds horribly disgusting - I want it.
If this lines up with the other rumors, then the secondary creature will be the Hive Node. Either way, I better start setting aside some Tyranid Funds
This rumor feels like it's accurate. Gut feelings, sure, but the description of the creature falls in line with how I think GW would design such a kit. Making it a dual-kit with a new giant bug (CEREBORE!) is also great, for those who have already converted mycetic spores of their own.
Also i mention Cerebore above because it's another version of a 'transport bug' and i think it just fits with the mycetic spore aesthetic, most likely. I called Nidvember back in July, I'm calling Cerebore now. mark it down, I'm the new Nidstradamus.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: If Nids are released in November, if there a chance we'll get a Megaforce for them this Christmas?
There is a chance... Just not a good one.
Likely not for Christmas, though there may be a "Strike Force" to replace the battleforce in Nov or whenever Nids come out.
Megaforce Christmas may be odd as well, as Marines are getting their strike force in Sep. Megaforces are nearly always SM and xenos. This year I would guess either CSM or Tau for the megaforces, and maybe a Daemons one shared between the systems.
No chance for a Nid Megaforce this year. CSM or Daemon Megaforce would be my guess, it's usually SM plus the major non-SM release of the previous year. Tau and Eldar are too recent, I feel.
lord_blackfang wrote: No chance for a Nid Megaforce this year. CSM or Daemon Megaforce would be my guess, it's usually SM plus the major non-SM release of the previous year. Tau and Eldar are too recent, I feel.
I don't know why people want a mega force. It will cost the exact same as buying the models individually. Unless you are Eldar, then it will cost you more money then buying the models individually.
Yeah the megaforces were the only discounts an army got outside of battleforces. Granted, they didn't always have good units in them, so you were basically getting "bad" units free (like the stalker in necrons ect).
Re: the guy who posted the Tyranid Rumors (mikey0987), it was found out he was also the one who posted the Daemon rumors a while back.
Here's how that worked out:
Spoiler:
More Daemons Daemonic: Instability If you lose 25% of your unit at the end of your close combat phase then you must take a leadership test on 2d6. You subtract the amount of models lost to the overall leadership total. If you pass then nothing happens otherwise you lose wounds equal to the amount you failed the combat by. PARTIALLY TRUE
For the case of shooting then the daemons count as being fearless. TRUE If a herald joins a unit then the unit is not effected by daemonic Instability FALSE
Heralds: have +1 to weapon skill, wounds, initiative, attack and have LD 9-10 TRUE Soul grinder has sky fire in profile (220pts base) TRUE
All daemon units have a 5+ invulnerable save as standard. TRUE There is upgrades to give heralds 3+ TRUE and even 2+ save (although it is very expensive) FALSE
Greater daemons are beasts – the keeper of secrets have 6 base attacks and gains more attacks for every kill. She also has rending. TRUE
Blood thirster- has amazing stat line:
WSBS S T W A I LDSV 10 5 8 7 5 5 5 10 4+ FALSE
Re- rolls all failed to hit and to wound. FALSE All greater daemons have the option for 2+ save – although it is on the 65pts+ mark FALSE
Fate weaver can make a enemy hero turn into a spawn if they fail an invulnerble save. FALSE Still re-rolls saves (but only invulnerable – no longer armour) FALSE
Bloodletters – reduced by a point FALSE Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points but are now strength 4 on the charge. FALSE Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points a model but have lost feel no pain but gained shrouded. TRUE Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves. TRUE
Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage. (They are really expensive) FALSE Beast of nurgle are vastly improved – and have gone up in cost by 30+ points TRUE
Physic powers are a bit to random and can hurt you badly if you roll badly PARTIALLY TRUE Nurgle is the best of a bad bunch. SPECULATION
Killme304 wrote: Yeah the megaforces were the only discounts an army got outside of battleforces. Granted, they didn't always have good units in them, so you were basically getting "bad" units free (like the stalker in necrons ect).
They had discounts before GW decided to just do 1-click armies. Now it's 1-click armies for sale.
pretre wrote: Re: the guy who posted the Tyranid Rumors (mikey0987), it was found out he was also the one who posted the Daemon rumors a while back.[/spoiler]
Which Tyranid rumors are attributed to this person? With the avalanche of garbage that has been thrown at us recently, it's kind of hard to remember who's behind what.
Bell of Lost Souls 8/27/13 "Regarding the Mycetic Spore wrote:
They rain down from the Hiveships, gelatenous bags of vile ichor and malevolence. Here's the latest word on the Mycetic Spore said to arriving with the upcoming Tyranids.
-Mycetic Spore is coming with the new Tyranid release
-Plastic combo-kit that makes the Spore and another large bug.
-It is an enormous creature, with an immense abdomen/transport sac, that spills over the sides of a standard oval base.
-It has tiny vestigial arms similar to a Zoanthropes, and a head with a tentacle ringed maw.
-The giant abdomen/sac looks swollen, and has internal protuberances looking like Tyranid creatures are stretching the skin from within, about to rip their way out...
-It has forward arms options that can be upgraded for various biomorph/weapon options.
-The secondary creature build option replaces the abdomen/sac with something entirely different.
That sounds horribly disgusting - I want it.
If this lines up with the other rumors, then the secondary creature will be the Hive Node. Either way, I better start setting aside some Tyranid Funds
This rumor feels like it's accurate. Gut feelings, sure, but the description of the creature falls in line with how I think GW would design such a kit. Making it a dual-kit with a new giant bug (CEREBORE!) is also great, for those who have already converted mycetic spores of their own.
Also i mention Cerebore above because it's another version of a 'transport bug' and i think it just fits with the mycetic spore aesthetic, most likely. I called Nidvember back in July, I'm calling Cerebore now. mark it down, I'm the new Nidstradamus.
Yeah, seems to pass the sniff test a little better somehow. Then again, that lengthy Eldar "leak" provided similar detail but was bunk.
Again, I'm not looking forward to replacing my 5 DIY spores with GW models. Maybe the new codex will provide some new/better options -- Trygon tunnels? -- for running the reserve-heavy armies that I prefer.
Bell of Lost Souls 8/27/13 "Regarding the Mycetic Spore wrote:
They rain down from the Hiveships, gelatenous bags of vile ichor and malevolence. Here's the latest word on the Mycetic Spore said to arriving with the upcoming Tyranids.
-Mycetic Spore is coming with the new Tyranid release
-Plastic combo-kit that makes the Spore and another large bug.
-It is an enormous creature, with an immense abdomen/transport sac, that spills over the sides of a standard oval base.
-It has tiny vestigial arms similar to a Zoanthropes, and a head with a tentacle ringed maw.
-The giant abdomen/sac looks swollen, and has internal protuberances looking like Tyranid creatures are stretching the skin from within, about to rip their way out...
-It has forward arms options that can be upgraded for various biomorph/weapon options.
-The secondary creature build option replaces the abdomen/sac with something entirely different.
That sounds horribly disgusting - I want it.
If this lines up with the other rumors, then the secondary creature will be the Hive Node. Either way, I better start setting aside some Tyranid Funds
This rumor feels like it's accurate. Gut feelings, sure, but the description of the creature falls in line with how I think GW would design such a kit. Making it a dual-kit with a new giant bug (CEREBORE!) is also great, for those who have already converted mycetic spores of their own.
Also i mention Cerebore above because it's another version of a 'transport bug' and i think it just fits with the mycetic spore aesthetic, most likely. I called Nidvember back in July, I'm calling Cerebore now. mark it down, I'm the new Nidstradamus.
Yeah, seems to pass the sniff test a little better somehow. Then again, that lengthy Eldar "leak" provided similar detail but was bunk.
Again, I'm not looking forward to replacing my 5 DIY spores with GW models. Maybe the new codex will provide some new/better options -- Trygon tunnels? -- for running the reserve-heavy armies that I prefer.
Seems interesting enough as a rumor. The folks on Warseer thought it garbage. I don't know if I buy it yet. If it does come to pass, I don't expect a name that's been used before, as GW tends to rarely port Epic or FW names into their core line (Lord of Skulls, notwithstanding).
Harriticus wrote:Generally rumors posted here from kroothawk end up true. Warseer is just overly judgemental
Wait, I am deliriously tired right now. Which rumor belongs to Kroothawk?
SickSix wrote:
I don't expect a name that's been used before, as GW tends to rarely port Epic or FW names into their core line (Lord of Skulls, notwithstanding).
Then consider the trend broken.
I didn't say it was a trend, and therefore not possible. GW has broken a lot of (bad) trends since the advent of 6th edition. If they go with Cerebore, I'm for it, because that sounds badass.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Killme304 wrote: Yeah the megaforces were the only discounts an army got outside of battleforces. Granted, they didn't always have good units in them, so you were basically getting "bad" units free (like the stalker in necrons ect).
The problem isn't what GW puts in them, it's people's expectations.
GW is offering a variety of units for a particular army to give people something to start with and try out. Veteran gamers are whining that they don't get 6 squads of 5-man Battle Squads each with their own Razorback in a box. GW has never promoted spam, or math-hammering an army list, so you are rarely going to see the most optimal builds in a box. PP doesn't do it any better. I also doubt GW thinks a unit is "bad" and decides to throw it in so customers get less value for the price.
Furthermore, the Triarch Stalker is a badass model, and performed decently enough for me on the table top.
I meant that for competitive players, they still were only just worth it because they wouldn't use some of the stuff. I agree that the stalker model is bad ass, but having seen them in action I would never field one. The best part about them would have been locking stuff in combat, but 6th has conspired against walkers with the weapons are useless rule. If it just locked fire warriors in combat the rest of the game I'd have no problem fielding them. But now I'm getting off topic.
With all the representation of spores in the codex and DoW2, I find it hard to believe that a spore is going to be a dual kit. If it's the cerebore, they just look way too different. If its a dominatrix, the spore is going to be waaaaaay too big. Some kind of hive node/structure thing would be the only dual I could see. If it is some kind of structure, I'll be sad because bugs form of invasion doesn't exactly scream "defensive". It would make more sense for a lower lifeform to perform a different task, like how a venomthrope blocks out vision with its spore cloud.
You do know that GW really doesn't give two boogers about competitive players right?
They have said since the dawn of time it's a 'beer and pretzels' game. They are not going to sell spam (competitive) box sets.
*Of course we all know 'beer and pretzels' is code for "we can't be expected to write a tight set of of balanced rules that would support competitive gaming because we write the rules to sell models"
Just click on the 40k link guys. There is a picture of "this army is out on a photo op. You may see them in a WD article soon." placard in a empty GW display case.
SickSix wrote: Just click on the 40k link guys. There is a picture of "this army is out on a photo op. You may see them in a WD article soon." placard in a empty GW display case.
We were looking at that case on 10 Aug - it was full. Eight weeks leadtime sounds bang-on for feature photography.
SickSix wrote: Just click on the 40k link guys. There is a picture of "this army is out on a photo op. You may see them in a WD article soon." placard in a empty GW display case.
No word on how many models were still in the case, mind. If nearly all the models were gone, they're probably just being used for a battle report or showcase or maybe even a promo shot for something *else*. With a new Codex, some figures would be updated or changed so there would still be a sizeable number of models in the cabinet.
Bell of Lost Souls 8/27/13 "Regarding the Mycetic Spore wrote:
They rain down from the Hiveships, gelatenous bags of vile ichor and malevolence. Here's the latest word on the Mycetic Spore said to arriving with the upcoming Tyranids.
-Mycetic Spore is coming with the new Tyranid release
-Plastic combo-kit that makes the Spore and another large bug.
-It is an enormous creature, with an immense abdomen/transport sac, that spills over the sides of a standard oval base.
-It has tiny vestigial arms similar to a Zoanthropes, and a head with a tentacle ringed maw.
-The giant abdomen/sac looks swollen, and has internal protuberances looking like Tyranid creatures are stretching the skin from within, about to rip their way out...
-It has forward arms options that can be upgraded for various biomorph/weapon options.
-The secondary creature build option replaces the abdomen/sac with something entirely different.
I am almost positive I know what this is going to be if the rumor is true in the book catechism of hate they describe a creature called the norn queen the description is almost perfect. I really hope that this is what it is it would be truly awesome. They are apparently what process the bio matter eaten by rippers to produce new tyranids for an invasion. This could be soon cool!!!
I am almost positive I know what this is going to be if the rumor is true in the book catechism of hate they describe a creature called the norn queen the description is almost perfect. I really hope that this is what it is it would be truly awesome. They are apparently what process the bio matter eaten by rippers to produce new tyranids for an invasion. This could be soon cool!!!
Norn Queens are the massive creatures (bigger than Bio-titans) inside Hive Ships that spawn all Tyranid creatures. This is just a transport so GW can make a dual-kit from the Mycetic Spore. If they are going to use an established name for it, it'll be called a Cerebore.
I am almost positive I know what this is going to be if the rumor is true in the book catechism of hate they describe a creature called the norn queen the description is almost perfect. I really hope that this is what it is it would be truly awesome. They are apparently what process the bio matter eaten by rippers to produce new tyranids for an invasion. This could be soon cool!!!
Norn Queens are the massive creatures (bigger than Bio-titans) inside Hive Ships that spawn all Tyranid creatures. This is just a transport so GW can make a dual-kit from the Mycetic Spore. If they are going to use an established name for it, it'll be called a Cerebore.
Yes I know but in the book catechism if hate the hive ship shot the norm queen to the plane because the ship was dying so when it got there it mutated still really big but was drastically smaller than its original form due to its evacuation from the ship. When it was in the planet it turned into an egg laying creature that really didn't move and got fed by rippers. You guys might be right but the description similarities are uncanny in my opinion.
I am almost positive I know what this is going to be if the rumor is true in the book catechism of hate they describe a creature called the norn queen the description is almost perfect. I really hope that this is what it is it would be truly awesome. They are apparently what process the bio matter eaten by rippers to produce new tyranids for an invasion. This could be soon cool!!!
Norn Queens are the massive creatures (bigger than Bio-titans) inside Hive Ships that spawn all Tyranid creatures. This is just a transport so GW can make a dual-kit from the Mycetic Spore. If they are going to use an established name for it, it'll be called a Cerebore.
Yes I know but in the book catechism if hate the hive ship shot the norm queen to the plane because the ship was dying so when it got there it mutated still really big but was drastically smaller than its original form due to its evacuation from the ship. When it was in the planet it turned into an egg laying creature that really didn't move and got fed by rippers. You guys might be right but the description similarities are uncanny in my opinion.
So we're talking about a planet-side combination of a bio-factory and command node? I think there's definitely a place for that in the range, and makes sense as a means of reinforcing the ground forces if there is difficulty in getting the Spores though planetary defenses.
I haven't read the book you're referring to, xttz, but it still sounds to me like while the Norn Queen shrunk in size, it still went from the size of a battle cruiser to the size of a factory - in 40K terms it "shrunk" to something akin to the fortress of redemption or aquila strongpoint w/ macro cannon. Much too large both in fluff and gameplay especially for a rumored 100mm oval base.
Just like the Exocrine and Malefactor were redone into the tervigon and tyrranofex, this bug will probably be a Cerebore but called something different. I think the hot money is on "Transport-o-fex".
tetrisphreak wrote: I haven't read the book you're referring to, xttz, but it still sounds to me like while the Norn Queen shrunk in size, it still went from the size of a battle cruiser to the size of a factory - in 40K terms it "shrunk" to something akin to the fortress of redemption or aquila strongpoint w/ macro cannon. Much too large both in fluff and gameplay especially for a rumored 100mm oval base.
Just like the Exocrine and Malefactor were redone into the tervigon and tyrranofex, this bug will probably be a Cerebore but called something different. I think the hot money is on "Transport-o-fex".
Oh its over now.
I want 3 transport-o-fexes.
Okay, though there is no rumor on it...you think this creature will be able to carry the same creatures as the spore can?
Are we going to have dedicated transport MCs that can contain Hormagaunts, Genestelears, Zoanthropes, and Carnifexes?
Does anyone think they can assault out of it? I am guessing no...
tetrisphreak wrote: I haven't read the book you're referring to, xttz, but it still sounds to me like while the Norn Queen shrunk in size, it still went from the size of a battle cruiser to the size of a factory - in 40K terms it "shrunk" to something akin to the fortress of redemption or aquila strongpoint w/ macro cannon. Much too large both in fluff and gameplay especially for a rumored 100mm oval base.
Just like the Exocrine and Malefactor were redone into the tervigon and tyrranofex, this bug will probably be a Cerebore but called something different. I think the hot money is on "Transport-o-fex".
Oh its over now.
I want 3 transport-o-fexes.
Okay, though there is no rumor on it...you think this creature will be able to carry the same creatures as the spore can?
Are we going to have dedicated transport MCs that can contain Hormagaunts, Genestelears, Zoanthropes, and Carnifexes?
Does anyone think they can assault out of it? I am guessing no...
Hierophant has an upgrade that allows it to have a 20-model capacity and count as an assault vehicle. I wouldn't be surprised to see this identical rule be the sole purpose of the transportofex
pretre wrote: Re: the guy who posted the Tyranid Rumors (mikey0987), it was found out he was also the one who posted the Daemon rumors a while back.
Here's how that worked out:
Spoiler:
More Daemons Daemonic: Instability If you lose 25% of your unit at the end of your close combat phase then you must take a leadership test on 2d6. You subtract the amount of models lost to the overall leadership total. If you pass then nothing happens otherwise you lose wounds equal to the amount you failed the combat by. PARTIALLY TRUE
For the case of shooting then the daemons count as being fearless. TRUE If a herald joins a unit then the unit is not effected by daemonic Instability FALSE
Heralds: have +1 to weapon skill, wounds, initiative, attack and have LD 9-10 TRUE Soul grinder has sky fire in profile (220pts base) TRUE
All daemon units have a 5+ invulnerable save as standard. TRUE There is upgrades to give heralds 3+ TRUE and even 2+ save (although it is very expensive) FALSE
Greater daemons are beasts – the keeper of secrets have 6 base attacks and gains more attacks for every kill. She also has rending. TRUE
Blood thirster- has amazing stat line:
WSBS S T W A I LDSV 10 5 8 7 5 5 5 10 4+ FALSE
Re- rolls all failed to hit and to wound. FALSE All greater daemons have the option for 2+ save – although it is on the 65pts+ mark FALSE
Fate weaver can make a enemy hero turn into a spawn if they fail an invulnerble save. FALSE Still re-rolls saves (but only invulnerable – no longer armour) FALSE
Bloodletters – reduced by a point FALSE Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points but are now strength 4 on the charge. FALSE Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points a model but have lost feel no pain but gained shrouded. TRUE Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves. TRUE
Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage. (They are really expensive) FALSE Beast of nurgle are vastly improved – and have gone up in cost by 30+ points TRUE
Physic powers are a bit to random and can hurt you badly if you roll badly PARTIALLY TRUE Nurgle is the best of a bad bunch. SPECULATION
Well, the Cerebore is a transport in the fluff (a burrower, IIRC). It's also important to note that unlike the Exocrine and Malefactor, the Cerebore isn't a classic Epic unit -- I believe it's first appearance was in the CCG. So that'd get around the studio's issues with using the Epic names.
If we do get a Cerebore, it'll be interesting to see how it operates. The obvious rules interpretation of its fluff would be to have it operate much like a drop pod, which seems like territory already covered by spores. Perhaps spore-like delivery combined with Mawloc-like entry effects? Who knows?
I was honestly expecting them to just make Shadow in the Warp an area effect buff to Deny the Witch rolls. They did something similar to Runes of Warding.
gorgon wrote: Well, the Cerebore is a transport in the fluff (a burrower, IIRC). It's also important to note that unlike the Exocrine and Malefactor, the Cerebore isn't a classic Epic unit -- I believe it's first appearance was in the CCG. So that'd get around the studio's issues with using the Epic names.
If we do get a Cerebore, it'll be interesting to see how it operates. The obvious rules interpretation of its fluff would be to have it operate much like a drop pod, which seems like territory already covered by spores. Perhaps spore-like delivery combined with Mawloc-like entry effects? Who knows?
I think it's very likely that you can consider this to be a drop pod that starts on the field and has legs...think tervigon for any kind of unit that can currently be podded...but you only get one birthing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TechMarine1 wrote: GW must want to sell more pyrovores, updating them so that they don't need to get super closed to used their flamer.
I want GW to sell more pyrovores...the model is awesome!
gorgon wrote: Well, the Cerebore is a transport in the fluff (a burrower, IIRC). It's also important to note that unlike the Exocrine and Malefactor, the Cerebore isn't a classic Epic unit -- I believe it's first appearance was in the CCG. So that'd get around the studio's issues with using the Epic names.
If we do get a Cerebore, it'll be interesting to see how it operates. The obvious rules interpretation of its fluff would be to have it operate much like a drop pod, which seems like territory already covered by spores. Perhaps spore-like delivery combined with Mawloc-like entry effects? Who knows?
I think it's very likely that you can consider this to be a drop pod that starts on the field and has legs...think tervigon for any kind of unit that can currently be podded...but you only get one birthing.
I was hoping I could finally use my cerebore, but I am betting it is too big...
Killme304 wrote: I could see the -4 ld. Most are ld10, becoming ld6 means they fail it just over half the time, which is slightly better than 3d6 vs ld10 anyway.
Rotary wrote:Dont know if i like the supposed shadow in the warp changes. I really like them rolling the 3d6
They only needed to roll 3, 3, and 4 to pass most times, which is basically average. I can't count how many times Grey Knights players confidently fired up their force weapons, or stacked the strength-buffing powers because it's still pretty simple to roll 10 or less on 3d6.
rigeld2 wrote:
Rotary wrote: Dont know if i like the supposed shadow in the warp changes. I really like them rolling the 3d6
The 3d6 won't change - guaranteed. It's one of the two strongest psychic defenses right now, and both of those are in 5th edition codexes.
I think it will change. I think GW wants the psychic powers to become a stronger part of the game (not like...Purple Sun OP or anything), and we will soon see no armies with the ability to say "no" passively. I also expect the Space Wolves Rune Staff to change to reflect this.
rigeld2 wrote:
Killme304 wrote: I could see the -4 ld. Most are ld10, becoming ld6 means they fail it just over half the time, which is slightly better than 3d6 vs ld10 anyway.
Except the extra chance of causing a perils.
I've never had an opposing psyker actually get hurt from perils. Never. Bad luck I guess, but that was never a selling point of SitW for me.
Being as Runes of Warding wasn't just nerfed, it was drug out back, beaten, shot, and buried in a shallow grave, I wouldn't hold out much hope of SitW not getting a major, major nerf.
Most of them being ld10, -4 means they need to roll less than average to cast the power !
It almost makes more sense to force the opponent to add +4 to their psychic check roll wouldn't it? Still giving them the same chance to fail plus making them risk perils more often like shadows is known for in fluff and game.
Most of them being ld10, -4 means they need to roll less than average to cast the power !
It almost makes more sense to force the opponent to add +4 to their psychic check roll wouldn't it? Still giving them the same chance to fail plus making them risk perils more often like shadows is known for in fluff and game.
I thought in the fluff SitW was not prone to causing perils do to the fact the tyranids blot out the warp. There are stories of people trying to communicate with the hive mind going crazy but thats something entirely different then trying to summon warp lightning.
Based on rumors it's not about being psychically in tune with the warp...tyranids aren't connected to the warp...
It's about about scaring the p*** out of opposing psykers. It's about making Eldrad run around at LD 6 and only passing 42% of the time opposed to the near 50% it used to be.
GW's not been making psychic that much stronger...they've been more or less streamlining the rules.
Tyranids as they seem to be evolving as a codex are not at all about being psychic...they appear to be anti-psychic/anti morale. As it currently stand s there are so many things in the tyranid book that reduce, modify, or mess with LD...I have built entire armies based on making my opponent run away.
Normally on Ld10 2d6, the chance to fail is 11.1%
On Ld10 3d6, the chance to fail is 50%
On Ld6 2d6, the chance to fail is 58.3%
Under this Ld-4 ruling, it's a strict buff if you only care about them failing their psychic test. It only gets worse for them as they have lower innate Ld or maybe if the Death Leaper gets to keep its leadership reducing ability.
Rotary wrote: Dont know if i like the supposed shadow in the warp changes. I really like them rolling the 3d6
The 3d6 won't change - guaranteed. It's one of the two strongest psychic defenses right now, and both of those are in 5th edition codexes.
I think it will change. I think GW wants the psychic powers to become a stronger part of the game (not like...Purple Sun OP or anything), and we will soon see no armies with the ability to say "no" passively. I also expect the Space Wolves Rune Staff to change to reflect this.
I meant won't stay - sorry. I agree with you.
rigeld2 wrote:
Killme304 wrote: I could see the -4 ld. Most are ld10, becoming ld6 means they fail it just over half the time, which is slightly better than 3d6 vs ld10 anyway.
Except the extra chance of causing a perils.
I've never had an opposing psyker actually get hurt from perils. Never. Bad luck I guess, but that was never a selling point of SitW for me.
In 6th they don't get any saves so perils is worse. I've killed a few psykers from Shadows (even caused a wound on Eldrad).
I don't know about any one else but the challenge weapon thing one bone swords is disheartening. Dose that mean that you can't use the weapon at all unless you are in a challenge? I hope not I usuall made one unit of my warriors with lash whip and bone sword to hunt terminators. Maybe it just means they have to issue a challenge, I really hope so I know everyone hated our only weapon that negates armor saves I guess it shouldn't surprise me that they would try to find a way to get rid of our only weapon that gets through 2+ save.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: I don't know about any one else but the challenge weapon thing one bone swords is disheartening. Dose that mean that you can't use the weapon at all unless you are in a challenge? I hope not I usuall made one unit of my warriors with lash whip and bone sword to hunt terminators. Maybe it just means they have to issue a challenge, I really hope so I know everyone hated our only weapon that negates armor saves I guess it shouldn't surprise me that they would try to find a way to get rid of our only weapon that gets through 2+ save.
Termagants gets through a 2+ save...with gusto.
I think it means that it's going to be mean in challenges. There is no weapon I know of that's challenge only...
You can count on it being AP3...GW's been turning all swords into AP3 except on big things...might retain force or ID capabilities...or it might get a new effect entirely.
GW's been hunting down the 2+ sv recently though with Eldar and now Marines.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: I don't know about any one else but the challenge weapon thing one bone swords is disheartening. Dose that mean that you can't use the weapon at all unless you are in a challenge? I hope not I usuall made one unit of my warriors with lash whip and bone sword to hunt terminators. Maybe it just means they have to issue a challenge, I really hope so I know everyone hated our only weapon that negates armor saves I guess it shouldn't surprise me that they would try to find a way to get rid of our only weapon that gets through 2+ save.
Termagants gets through a 2+ save...with gusto.
I think it means that it's going to be mean in challenges. There is no weapon I know of that's challenge only...
You can count on it being AP3...GW's been turning all swords into AP3 except on big things...might retain force or ID capabilities...or it might get a new effect entirely.
GW's been hunting down the 2+ sv recently though with Eldar and now Marines.
I honestly hope that you are wrong about ap3 the bone sword is our only ap2 equivalent weapon save using a MC. While that is effective at times we all know the plight of the MC. That and it would take away from the feeling of eliteness that warriors have.
Goresaw wrote:Being as Runes of Warding wasn't just nerfed, it was drug out back, beaten, shot, and buried in a shallow grave, I wouldn't hold out much hope of SitW not getting a major, major nerf.
I don't think it's a nerf. Runes of Warding was WAAAAAYYYY too good before. With psychic powers playing more of an important role in 6th edition, it would have been twice as powerful. There would be no reason for everyone who can take a Farseer (allies, etc) not to. That's not good for the game. Right now, some people ally Space Wolves, or continue to play as-is for the same reason. It's about permitting ways to defend against powerful things, while allowing those things to still remain powerful. If that makes sense... For example: we want to see more anti-aircraft, but nothing too reliable or else there's no reason to play fliers. People basically want a 5 point upgrade that's range 72" S10, AP1, Lance, Skyfire, Armorbane, Heavy 6, on a platform that attaches to squads, can't be focus-fired upon, can split fire among multiple targets, and has a 2+++ save with It Will Not Die.
That's kind of how Runes of Warding would have been against psychic powers if it were left in tact. It should be "warding" it's people against psychic energy, which it now does. Runes of Warding is now fair, not nerfed. It was just over-powered before. Plus, Eldar got plenty of goodies in the rest of the army to more than make up for that change.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: I don't know about any one else but the challenge weapon thing one bone swords is disheartening. Dose that mean that you can't use the weapon at all unless you are in a challenge? I hope not I usuall made one unit of my warriors with lash whip and bone sword to hunt terminators. Maybe it just means they have to issue a challenge, I really hope so I know everyone hated our only weapon that negates armor saves I guess it shouldn't surprise me that they would try to find a way to get rid of our only weapon that gets through 2+ save.
Termagants gets through a 2+ save...with gusto.
I think it means that it's going to be mean in challenges. There is no weapon I know of that's challenge only...
You can count on it being AP3...GW's been turning all swords into AP3 except on big things...might retain force or ID capabilities...or it might get a new effect entirely.
GW's been hunting down the 2+ sv recently though with Eldar and now Marines.
I honestly hope that you are wrong about ap3 the bone sword is our only ap2 equivalent weapon save using a MC. While that is effective at times we all know the plight of the MC. That and it would take away from the feeling of eliteness that warriors have.
Boneswords will probably be AP3. I would bet on that. It isn't a big deal though. There really weren't a ton of armies fielding 2+ save units anyway. Maybe a single unit of Terminators (which shouldn't get hacked to bits by Warriors anyway)? Our MC's will still be AP2, and there are more armies getting AP2 weaponry in the shooting phase now. Tyranids aren't about armor penetration - they are about forcing a billion saves. They kill under the weight of their masses. The new codex will likely reflect this in a way that's more accurate. We don't NEED an AP2 sword, and the rest of the army will likely be buffed in some way. Every 6th edition codex has so far, so losing AP2 on a single bio weapon will hardly cripple the army. As an aside, learning to play a new way isn't a bad thing either.
No i agree learning a new play style is fun and I am sure that there will be plenty of new shiny in the codex I would just be a bit disappointed I always interpreted the fluff as warriors being pretty elite like creatures oh well.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: If boneswords become AP3, I think its possible that Rending Claws will be the preferred weapon for warriors.
Depends on the points cost of both Warriors and Boneswords.
I still don't get why people act like there are boatloads of armor save 2+ units running around that Warriors HAVE to be dealing with. AP3 means you absolutely slaughter every infantry in the game, short of the absolute hardest ones from Elites or HQ slots (which are all more expensive than Warriors anyway).
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: No i agree learning a new play style is fun and I am sure that there will be plenty of new shiny in the codex I would just be a bit disappointed I always interpreted the fluff as warriors being pretty elite like creatures oh well.
They are pretty elite creatures. AP3 is elite; especially for Troops choices. Their stat-line and equipment (including an AP3 bonesword) would make them all but the killiest Troops choice in the game. They would wade through Space Marines, Orks, Eldar Guardians and Aspect Warriors, Tau infantry of all flavors, IG infantry, Sisters, Necrons...
They don't need to reliably reduce Terminators to powder to be elite. Is that all some of you guys run into or something?
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: If boneswords become AP3, I think its possible that Rending Claws will be the preferred weapon for warriors.
Depends on the points cost of both Warriors and Boneswords.
I still don't get why people act like there are boatloads of armor save 2+ units running around that Warriors HAVE to be dealing with. AP3 means you absolutely slaughter every infantry in the game, short of the absolute hardest ones from Elites or HQ slots (which are all more expensive than Warriors anyway).
Its mostly cause warriors are essentially the Terminators of Nids (powerful, good at both shooting and assault, expensive, hard to kill (uness your opponent has a lot of S8), so naturally we wan themt to do well against actual terminators. If rending stay 5 pts to the bonesword's 10, I can easily see most people taking them instead.
CSM Terminators aren't more expensive than Warriors.
It's not that they HAVE to be dealing with heavy infantry; it's that that was the only niche the current codex gave them. In 5e, Genestealers were just plain better (and so were Raveners). In 6e, just drown whatever it is in poisonous 'gants and/or Gargoyles, until one of the big bugs can spare a few minutes to come over and smash it.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: If boneswords become AP3, I think its possible that Rending Claws will be the preferred weapon for warriors.
Depends on the points cost of both Warriors and Boneswords.
I still don't get why people act like there are boatloads of armor save 2+ units running around that Warriors HAVE to be dealing with. AP3 means you absolutely slaughter every infantry in the game, short of the absolute hardest ones from Elites or HQ slots (which are all more expensive than Warriors anyway).
Its mostly cause warriors are essentially the Terminators of Nids (powerful, good at both shooting and assault, expensive, hard to kill (uness your opponent has a lot of S8), so naturally we wan themt to do well against actual terminators. If rending stay 5 pts to the bonesword's 10, I can easily see most people taking them instead.
But they aren't the Terminators of Nids. They are Troops choices, and mid-range Hive Nodes. They have great stat-lines, and will kill most infantry faster than Terminators will. The trade off is, they can't defeat a TH+SS unit of Terminators; but nothing really can without spending way more points. Tyranids are supposed to be squishier, not harder. Tyranids are about volume of attacks, not incredibly power-fueled, armor-obliterating precision strikes.
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Janthkin wrote: CSM Terminators aren't more expensive than Warriors.
It's not that they HAVE to be dealing with heavy infantry; it's that that was the only niche the current codex gave them. In 5e, Genestealers were just plain better (and so were Raveners). In 6e, just drown whatever it is in poisonous 'gants and/or Gargoyles, until one of the big bugs can spare a few minutes to come over and smash it.
CSM Terminators come standard with power weapons (AP3), yes? You have to pay points to give them anything else, and they are also in the Elites slot. Warriors are Troops.
The current codex didn't give them any niche. They were just bad in the current codex... because the current codex is bad. Tyranid Warriors are stuck in an awkward place, I agree, but they still slaughter pretty much every other Troops choice in the game. We get to throw gaunts and Gargs at Terminators, so I'd say that's a pretty fair trade.
And seriously, there aren't enough Terminators on the field for the AP2/AP3 discussion to matter. Tyranids have so many more ways of dealing with Terminators that Warriors can triple or quadruple their points by eating the rest of the infantry an army normally fields. Do you really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do. Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: If boneswords become AP3, I think its possible that Rending Claws will be the preferred weapon for warriors.
Depends on the points cost of both Warriors and Boneswords.
I still don't get why people act like there are boatloads of armor save 2+ units running around that Warriors HAVE to be dealing with. AP3 means you absolutely slaughter every infantry in the game, short of the absolute hardest ones from Elites or HQ slots (which are all more expensive than Warriors anyway).
Its mostly cause warriors are essentially the Terminators of Nids (powerful, good at both shooting and assault, expensive, hard to kill (uness your opponent has a lot of S8), so naturally we wan themt to do well against actual terminators. If rending stay 5 pts to the bonesword's 10, I can easily see most people taking them instead.
But they aren't the Terminators of Nids. They are Troops choices, and mid-range Hive Nodes. They have great stat-lines, and will kill most infantry faster than Terminators will. The trade off is, they can't defeat a TH+SS unit of Terminators; but nothing really can without spending way more points. Tyranids are supposed to be squishier, not harder. Tyranids are about volume of attacks, not incredibly power-fueled, armor-obliterating precision strikes.
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Janthkin wrote: CSM Terminators aren't more expensive than Warriors.
It's not that they HAVE to be dealing with heavy infantry; it's that that was the only niche the current codex gave them. In 5e, Genestealers were just plain better (and so were Raveners). In 6e, just drown whatever it is in poisonous 'gants and/or Gargoyles, until one of the big bugs can spare a few minutes to come over and smash it.
And CSM Terminators come standard with power weapons (AP3), yes? You have to pay points to give them anything else, and they are also in the Elites slot. Warriors are Troops.
The current codex didn't give them any niche. They were just bad in the current codex... because the current codex is bad. Tyranid Warriors are stuck in an awkward place, I agree, but they still slaughter pretty much every other Troops choice in the game. We get to throw gaunts and Gargs at Terminators, so I'd say that's a pretty fair trade.
To be fair, if warrior are getting T5/EW I have a gut feeling they are going back to the Elite slot, with possibly a way to unlock them as troops (Swarmlord?)
If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.
Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.
There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: If boneswords become AP3, I think its possible that Rending Claws will be the preferred weapon for warriors.
Depends on the points cost of both Warriors and Boneswords.
I still don't get why people act like there are boatloads of armor save 2+ units running around that Warriors HAVE to be dealing with. AP3 means you absolutely slaughter every infantry in the game, short of the absolute hardest ones from Elites or HQ slots (which are all more expensive than Warriors anyway).
Its mostly cause warriors are essentially the Terminators of Nids (powerful, good at both shooting and assault, expensive, hard to kill (uness your opponent has a lot of S8), so naturally we wan themt to do well against actual terminators. If rending stay 5 pts to the bonesword's 10, I can easily see most people taking them instead.
But they aren't the Terminators of Nids. They are Troops choices, and mid-range Hive Nodes. They have great stat-lines, and will kill most infantry faster than Terminators will. The trade off is, they can't defeat a TH+SS unit of Terminators; but nothing really can without spending way more points. Tyranids are supposed to be squishier, not harder. Tyranids are about volume of attacks, not incredibly power-fueled, armor-obliterating precision strikes.
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Janthkin wrote: CSM Terminators aren't more expensive than Warriors.
It's not that they HAVE to be dealing with heavy infantry; it's that that was the only niche the current codex gave them. In 5e, Genestealers were just plain better (and so were Raveners). In 6e, just drown whatever it is in poisonous 'gants and/or Gargoyles, until one of the big bugs can spare a few minutes to come over and smash it.
CSM Terminators come standard with power weapons (AP3), yes? You have to pay points to give them anything else, and they are also in the Elites slot. Warriors are Troops.
The current codex didn't give them any niche. They were just bad in the current codex... because the current codex is bad. Tyranid Warriors are stuck in an awkward place, I agree, but they still slaughter pretty much every other Troops choice in the game. We get to throw gaunts and Gargs at Terminators, so I'd say that's a pretty fair trade.
And seriously, there aren't enough Terminators on the field for the AP2/AP3 discussion to matter. Tyranids have so many more ways of dealing with Terminators that Warriors can triple or quadruple their points by eating the rest of the infantry an army normally fields. Do you really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do. Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.
I disagree warriors are the closest thing tyranid players have to terminators. They can easily be seen as an elite equivalent with WS5 3 wounds and a base of 3 attacks. As it goes they are also command units having synapse and what not. I also don't believe by just saying that something is in a troop slot invalidates its ability to be compared to as an elite, if that is so then terminators themselves shouldn't be considered elite either due to them holding a troop slot in some codecies.
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brassangel wrote: If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.
Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.
There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.
I don't think anyone is getting upset per say it is just a matter if perception as to wether someone considers them to be an equivalent to an elite or specificity terminators.
brassangel wrote: If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.
Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.
There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.
As of right now I find it generally bad strategy to take Warriors at all. And actually, yes, bonesword Warriors are amazing at killing Terminators. It is only slightly harder for them to kill Terminators than it is for them to kill Tac marines... or Ork boyz, which very few units can claim. So the idea of taking Warriors for clearing "important, objective claiming units," is pretty much just as moot just as taking them for killing Terminators... in both cases "gaunts + any MC will do that with ease" - honestly couldn't have said it better. So how is it then, that a Warriors true battlefield application is killing objective campers??? Shooting them with deathspitters (queue rimshot)? I totally agree with you on this, having a unit built soley to kill Terminators is silly, but the truth is Warriors (and Shrikes by extension) are amazing at it - like absurdly effecient at it... so my take-away is that Warriors are, well, silly.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: If boneswords become AP3, I think its possible that Rending Claws will be the preferred weapon for warriors.
Depends on the points cost of both Warriors and Boneswords.
I still don't get why people act like there are boatloads of armor save 2+ units running around that Warriors HAVE to be dealing with. AP3 means you absolutely slaughter every infantry in the game, short of the absolute hardest ones from Elites or HQ slots (which are all more expensive than Warriors anyway).
Its mostly cause warriors are essentially the Terminators of Nids (powerful, good at both shooting and assault, expensive, hard to kill (uness your opponent has a lot of S8), so naturally we wan themt to do well against actual terminators. If rending stay 5 pts to the bonesword's 10, I can easily see most people taking them instead.
But they aren't the Terminators of Nids. They are Troops choices, and mid-range Hive Nodes. They have great stat-lines, and will kill most infantry faster than Terminators will. The trade off is, they can't defeat a TH+SS unit of Terminators; but nothing really can without spending way more points. Tyranids are supposed to be squishier, not harder. Tyranids are about volume of attacks, not incredibly power-fueled, armor-obliterating precision strikes.
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Janthkin wrote: CSM Terminators aren't more expensive than Warriors.
It's not that they HAVE to be dealing with heavy infantry; it's that that was the only niche the current codex gave them. In 5e, Genestealers were just plain better (and so were Raveners). In 6e, just drown whatever it is in poisonous 'gants and/or Gargoyles, until one of the big bugs can spare a few minutes to come over and smash it.
CSM Terminators come standard with power weapons (AP3), yes? You have to pay points to give them anything else, and they are also in the Elites slot. Warriors are Troops.
The current codex didn't give them any niche. They were just bad in the current codex... because the current codex is bad. Tyranid Warriors are stuck in an awkward place, I agree, but they still slaughter pretty much every other Troops choice in the game. We get to throw gaunts and Gargs at Terminators, so I'd say that's a pretty fair trade.
And seriously, there aren't enough Terminators on the field for the AP2/AP3 discussion to matter. Tyranids have so many more ways of dealing with Terminators that Warriors can triple or quadruple their points by eating the rest of the infantry an army normally fields. Do you really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do. Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.
I disagree warriors are the closest thing tyranid players have to terminators. They can easily be seen as an elite equivalent with WS5 3 wounds and a base of 3 attacks. As it goes they are also command units having synapse and what not. I also don't believe by just saying that something is in a troop slot invalidates its ability to be compared to as an elite, if that is so then terminators themselves shouldn't be considered elite either due to them holding a troop slot in some codecies.
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brassangel wrote: If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.
Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.
There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.
I don't think anyone is getting upset per say it is just a matter if perception as to wether someone considers them to be an equivalent to an elite or specificity terminators.
Terminators can be MADE Troops in some codices. You are also cherry-picking segments of my post in an effort to make a point.
Tyranid Warriors shouldn't be used to fight Terminators, or even compared to Terminators, because they don't fill the same role. They don't excel at the same things - in a vacuum, or as an overall strategy. Terminators are a wall and a bowling ball in one. They move slow, they don't have a lot of attacks, but when they hit, they hit very hard and are difficult to grind down. Warriors are light weight, can be quick, but have more attacks and a more efficient to-hit rate in combat.
The former can walk into other deathstars, hold objectives indefinitely, but are also far fewer in number in an army. They are also stupid expensive when kitted out. The latter can be a mobile Synapse unit, support smaller infantry, fielded in greater numbers, and slash all forms of light to medium infantry to bits.
The problem is fundamental: people (especially on the internet) compare straight across armies, not within the army itself. People don't focus on a units' strengths, they instead point out what they can't do. Or they look at what a unit in another book does and decide they want that for their unit. Armies play differently, units are used differently, and even if there are perceived similarities (though not real ones), that doesn't mean they need to be equally capable of the same things.
People "perceive" Warriors should be what Terminators are, but they are wrong. Opinions don't matter here; they are wrong. Tyranid Warriors are good by the fluff, and their stats reflect that. They don't need to be Terminator good, however. They will hit better (WS5), with more attacks, and have a larger presence on the field (due to greater numbers in the Troops slot). But they are squishier, and can't punch through Terminators. Nothing really does; that's what Terminators are. That's not what Tyranid Warriors are.
Why would we want Tyranids to just have what Space Marines have anyway; or vice versa? Then they wouldn't be Tyranids (or Space Marines).
brassangel wrote: If they get those buffs, then yes, they will be Elites. As it stands, they aren't Elites, and shouldn't be played (or viewed) as such.
Do people really field Warriors solely to take on Terminators one-on-one? That's a pretty bad strategy if you do, and not really what they are useful for (and shouldn't be). Especially when, as previously stated, gaunts + any MC will do that with ease.
There just aren't enough Terminators in an entire tournament, let alone a single table, to warrant using Warriors that way. Warriors can slaughter the important, objective claiming units much more efficiently. Learn to use them to their strengths; don't be upset because they don't do what you envision they should do.
As of right now I find it generally bad strategy to take Warriors at all. And actually, yes, bonesword Warriors are amazing at killing Terminators. It is only slightly harder for them to kill Terminators than it is for them to kill Tac marines... or Ork boyz, which very few units can claim. So the idea of taking Warriors for clearing "important, objective claiming units," is pretty much just as moot just as taking them for killing Terminators... in both cases "gaunts + any MC will do that with ease" - honestly couldn't have said it better. So how is it then, that a Warriors true battlefield application is killing objective campers??? Shooting them with deathspitters (queue rimshot)? I totally agree with you on this, having a unit built soley to kill Terminators is silly, but the truth is Warriors (and Shrikes by extension) are amazing at it - like absurdly effecient at it... so my take-away is that Warriors are, well, silly.
Warriors can do it, but they are bad overall. What I'm referring to is there's no real reason for them to be used that way, and no real reason in 6th edition for them to have an AP2 CCW; by fluff or necessity. Tyranids swarm Terminators for the win, or run a Trygon into them. As per the fluff, Tyranids are often about instilling psychic madness and fear, Warriors are hardly a way to shake Terminators. One mid-sized bug against a Terminator? No contest. Send 400 bugs at them, or a few super monstrous ones? There you go.
Warriors need a more well defined role as a mobile Synapse unit, support for the smaller bugs, and an elite unit for taking on other forms of light-to-medium infantry. Otherwise, they are just expensive Genestealers, or slower Raveners.
Ok sir I stand corrected apparently someone Is getting upset. Your right in some codecies terminators can be MADE troops and in at least one I can think of they ARE troops (hey look I can use capital letters too).
The point is I didn't say warriors are terminators nor did I say that they are almost exactly like them , I said that they are the closest thing that tyranids have to terminators. You also act as if I am unable to do basic math well lets see your standard terminator THSS is 40 points per model with no additions able to be made to it, so now you have a warrior 30 points per model base add a other 15 for lash whip and bone sword per model and now add another 5 per model for adrenal glands hmmm well ill be that must 50 points a model but you know what terminators are stupid expensive compared to tyranid warriors. You point out everything terminators can do i offer no debate you are correct on every aspect but I would argue that warriors can fill the same role in the tyranid codex and can be compared to terminators as an elite which was my original point.
Lastly I find your argument to while passionate and your point of view fine I would appreciate it if you don't come swooping in an tell me that "opinions don't matter here they are wrong". Now I am not sure if you we're trying to say my opinion was wrong or I was wrong for having an opinion either is somewhat insulting. We are on this forum to discuss rumors which I am pretty sure are going to be opinionated from everyone.
The only armies that can put out massed 2+ saves well in my mind are GKT spam and Sanguinary Guard...both of which are units warriors never really wanted to touch anyways.
gorgon wrote: Well, the Cerebore is a transport in the fluff (a burrower, IIRC). It's also important to note that unlike the Exocrine and Malefactor, the Cerebore isn't a classic Epic unit -- I believe it's first appearance was in the CCG. So that'd get around the studio's issues with using the Epic names.
If we do get a Cerebore, it'll be interesting to see how it operates. The obvious rules interpretation of its fluff would be to have it operate much like a drop pod, which seems like territory already covered by spores. Perhaps spore-like delivery combined with Mawloc-like entry effects? Who knows?
I think it's very likely that you can consider this to be a drop pod that starts on the field and has legs...think tervigon for any kind of unit that can currently be podded...but you only get one birthing.
I was hoping I could finally use my cerebore, but I am betting it is too big...
ductvader wrote: The only armies that can put out massed 2+ saves well in my mind are GKT spam and Sanguinary Guard...both of which are units warriors never really wanted to touch anyways.
ductvader wrote: The only armies that can put out massed 2+ saves well in my mind are GKT spam and Sanguinary Guard...both of which are units warriors never really wanted to touch anyways.
Don't forget about Deathwing
Key word was massed 2+ saves WELL. DW are way too expensive now...
I'm getting excited for nids, I've persevered through 3 editions with them and with 6th being the most balanced set so far I have high hopes that I can use more than one build effectively.
I could see the Mycetic Spore/other transport monster kit working perfectly fine. Remove an abdominal sac, flip the torso upside down, and you've got a completely different bug. That wouldn't make it too dissimilar to the Necron Ghost Ark.
I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.
brassangel wrote: I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.
brassangel wrote: I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.
Over/under on that happening again?
This is most likely what GW is planning yes.
A part of me wonders if GW leaks some of the information on purpose. Some stuff they play-tested, some stuff complete bologna, and some the real deal. With how little we get from the reliable old mongers (Harry and Hastings - the latter of whom has retired from that role), it seems we get this plop storm with every codex. Even Harry only gives us tentative release orders without any real details anymore.
I'll bet you lunch GW is leaking a lot of this themselves. All these new accounts showing up and their first post is a detailed rumor about something 3 weeks away?
brassangel wrote: I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.
Over/under on that happening again?
This is most likely what GW is planning yes.
A part of me wonders if GW leaks some of the information on purpose. Some stuff they play-tested, some stuff complete bologna, and some the real deal. With how little we get from the reliable old mongers (Harry and Hastings - the latter of whom has retired from that role), it seems we get this plop storm with every codex. Even Harry only gives us tentative release orders without any real details anymore.
I have been saying that for a while now. It's GW who is releasing them, or giving the people to give out the rumours. This way we JUMP on it and we CREATE the HYPE for the upcoming release, at least on the internet. It's FREE for GW. Just look at GW "teaser videos", they can't create this much hype without us doing it for them.
SickSix wrote: I'll bet you lunch GW is leaking a lot of this themselves. All these new accounts showing up and their first post is a detailed rumor about something 3 weeks away?
Yup, smells like an inside job.
There was a second rumor monger on the grassy knoll!
Must resist bugs army!! Used to have about 3k pts worth back in 2nd edition and loved them. Maybe if I do an all warrior army it wont take up so much room lol
brassangel wrote: I remember before Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Space Marines, we had a boatload of rumors (like these); some true, some not. Then we had silence for 3-4 weeks before the juicy stuff started hitting.
Over/under on that happening again?
This is most likely what GW is planning yes.
A part of me wonders if GW leaks some of the information on purpose. Some stuff they play-tested, some stuff complete bologna, and some the real deal. With how little we get from the reliable old mongers (Harry and Hastings - the latter of whom has retired from that role), it seems we get this plop storm with every codex. Even Harry only gives us tentative release orders without any real details anymore.
I have been saying that for a while now. It's GW who is releasing them, or giving the people to give out the rumours. This way we JUMP on it and we CREATE the HYPE for the upcoming release, at least on the internet. It's FREE for GW. Just look at GW "teaser videos", they can't create this much hype without us doing it for them.
And people claim they aren't hyping their stuff months in advance...
Sure, the interwebs wants full pictures, stats, and points costs 6 months out, but their sales trends since going hush-hush has given them NO REASON to do that. This allows them to build hype without truly spoiling anything, and saves the real analysis of units for when actual time has been spent on the table top. (That's a rant for a different thread.)
To be fair, I have no clue if this is what they are up to, or if it's just blind luck for them.
I always assume half the hypers for anything on the internet are corporate plants.
New video game? New movie? New GW stuff? New Taco Bell Doritos Locos flavor? Any company can get easy marketing by having their employees, who probably frequent some sort of board already, start hyping it up.
brassangel wrote: To be fair, I have no clue if this is what they are up to, or if it's just blind luck for them.
So the options are evil manipulative corporate masterminds plotting in a dark room, or social media incompetent luckers with crappy employee control.
Not all corporate think-tanks are evil or manipulative just because they have marketing ideas that don't cost much. I think it's just smart to do it that way.
Most of what's found on social media is incompetence of the individual, not the company said individual works for.
And thank god I sold all my (badly) painted Nid stuff so I can start from scratch
I nearly sold all my Nid stuff as well. Hopefully I'll have made the right decision and a lot of the relatively useless things I've got now will find a use in the new Codex.
