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Post by: ductvader
I wouldn't doubt it, stays close to the current Harpy statline and suits the probable costing we've been hearing. Pretty much still pure win against everything but Broadsides.
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Post by: Eldercaveman
 Redemption wrote:Hive Crone is T5 W5 4+, and his Drool cannon is AP4 with no Torrent. Thanks GW.
Did you REALLY want/expect a copy paste of the Baleflamer?
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Post by: Redemption
ductvader wrote:Crone's abilities are supposed to be Vector Strike Oriented, Your Harpy is your gunbird.
Yeah, except with only a 24" movement, a ~4.5" base and having to keep the minimum distance of 1" from your enemy before and after movement means you have like a very short Vector Strike distance; you virtually have to be on top of the unit you want to Vector Strike at the start of your movement phase. I doubt you'll get the chance to do this often against a capable opponent.
tetrisphreak wrote:Source? Do we have new pics up somewhere?
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?40459-Copy-Of-Tyranid-Codex-In-Hand&p=382946&viewfull=1#post382946
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Redemption wrote:ductvader wrote:Crone's abilities are supposed to be Vector Strike Oriented, Your Harpy is your gunbird.
Yeah, except with only a 24" movement, a ~4.5" base and having to keep the minimum distance of 1" from your enemy before and after movement means you have like a very short Vector Strike distance; you virtually have to be on top of the unit you want to Vector Strike at the start of your movement phase. I doubt you'll get the chance to do this often against a capable opponent.
tetrisphreak wrote:Source? Do we have new pics up somewhere?
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?40459-Copy-Of-Tyranid-Codex-In-Hand&p=382946&viewfull=1#post382946
\
Area Denial is your friend. If you make a large section of the table a place where the enemy does not want to be, you are that much better at holding an objective there. Add in LOS blocking terrain and you've got a good thing going.
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Post by: Stormbreed
Backlash wrote:We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.
If that post earlier about SwarmLord is true, I hope we can also give him wings!
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Post by: ductvader
Stormbreed wrote:Backlash wrote:We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.
If that post earlier about SwarmLord is true, I hope we can also give him wings!
What?
Swamlord is unique and can't be given anything...besides Tyrant Guard and a target...any target.
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Post by: Maelstrom808
Well, any target depends on a lot. Currently the only thing keeping him from being swatted by other characters with EW + ID is having Iron Arm. How effective he is against those guys now is going to be heavilly dependant on what changes they made (obviously).
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Post by: ductvader
It also doesn't need torrent... a flamer template from anywhere on that giant oval is easy to place...and "unassailable" if flying.
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Post by: SHUPPET
 tetrisphreak wrote: xttz wrote:Regarding Onslaught... don't forget that FMC's can run 2D6" with it. This means you can not only put a Flyrant, Harpy or Crone into the enemy deployment zone on turn 1, but it can easily be beside/behind vehicles AND allowed to fire. Also Adrenal Glands means Fleet for (F) MC's. Throw it on your Flyrant to re-roll that 2D6". 6E means Flying Nidzilla...
To further expand on your (well-made) point, the entire Hive Mind psychic power table is maledictions and/or blessings, aside from Warp Blast. This means that whatever you roll on your Tyrants, Tervigons, etc you'll be able to cast these buffs/debuffs without forgoing your shooting attacks, as in the past. For example, - paroxysm used to take up one of the hive tyrants shooting attacks. Now, it's only a D3 modifier (but even WS3 marines need 5's to hit a tyrant, and on average they'll be WS2 if the power goes off). It's also got double the previous range (well +6" if you factor in movement speed of a walking tyrant, or the same range if you factor in a winged tyrant, but i digress). Catalyst - is great. FNP on 2 units for the price of one! Too bad it's not guaranteed on anything. The Horror - a -2 Ld check will pin most backfield units ( Ld 7-8) quite frequently. Even if you can't assault the turn you debuff them, you're preventing that unit from firing effectively in the following turn (target tau markerlights, or snipers on a quad gun, etc). In fact the horror works great during a turn in which flyers are about to arrive - you can pin the enemy unit with interceptor and skyfire (riptides are LD9, and not fearless - you can pin them 50% of the time). Then they're only snapfiring at your reserves. I'm cautiously optimistic about this book - it WILL come down to the abilities of the units themselves coupled with accurate point costs for what they're capable of. I want a Hive Tyrant that can take on a Daemon Prince (not necessarily the swarmlord) and I think with the right upgrades that can be made to happen. We will see. It's just a few more days now but i can't wait to start making lists and test-rolling some scenarios with this new book.
I hate to be a skeptic, and I really like you guys thinking outside the box because what you said is kind of cool, but it seems like the quickest way possibly to throw away the most expensive unit in your army. After doing what you suggest, your Flyrant is now probably in range of every single unit in your opponents army, is not in swooping mode so can be shot at normally, can also be assaulted, and has only 4W with a 3+ save. I personally don't put Flyrants on the table without a Gargoyle shield (or Venomthrope in lower points levels) to provide cover while they advance. If you aren't going to be in range first turn you can reserve it for a turn if you are worried about it getting shot down while it's still gliding, if not, you wait behind your cover a turn longer before doing what a Flyrant does. In the situation that you aren't in range of anything to shoot at after advancing 12", seems to me that the sensible thing to do is hardly trying to sprint 12" past your cover to get some early side armor shots, leaving yourself in range and exposed in jump infantry mode to most likely everything your opponent put on the board. Flyrant will spend the rest of the game getting flanking shots wherever he wants, trying to do it before he's airborne seems like the best way to jeopardize this. The problem with most the rollable powers is that if they do have uses, they seem very niche. Sure, you have found a good use for the Horror vs Tau gunlines and I commend you for it. Except when you roll it and Warp Lance vs Space Marines its a useless power + a power you can't cast. ONLY being able to ROLL on the Tyranid table, is very different to trading out your 2 powers chosen from a list of 4 choices, for the chance at rolling for something better to cast once a turn, which happens very consistently on the Biomancy table. Arguing that some of the weaker powers on the Nid table aren't useless, does not make this change a good one. It's fine to do damage control by finding uses for the new powers we have now, just so long as you guys are aware that this is indeed a massive nerf, even if they aren't TOTALLY useless. BTW the Psychic Shriek is also witchfire (Nova)
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Post by: tetrisphreak
 ductvader wrote:
It also doesn't need torrent... a flamer template from anywhere on that giant oval is easy to place...and "unassailable" if flying.
I guess we're all assuming it's a flamer template and not a large/small blast weapon...?
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Post by: ductvader
tetrisphreak wrote: ductvader wrote:
It also doesn't need torrent... a flamer template from anywhere on that giant oval is easy to place...and "unassailable" if flying.
I guess we're all assuming it's a flamer template and not a large/small blast weapon...?
Fair point, it is called a cannon.
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Post by: gorgon
Someone on BOLS is saying that Shrikes are in! So we'll see. Of course, they could use a points break, and based on the Warriors that might not be happening. :( Still, access to fleet makes them a smidge more interesting. MCs also get more interesting with fleet, as do Primes. Primes look like they might be one of the winners in the new book. Wings for primes are probably too much to hope for, though. :(
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Ah, yes. Forgot that one - but as it doesn't roll to-hit and the effect is pretty good ( 2d6+2 -leadership in wounds with no saves on multiple units) I'd still be okay with rolling it on a flyrant.
Also Swooping MC's can run -that's where the 2d6 comes from. So the crones, harpies, and flyrants we are hypothetically casting onslaught on WILL be on skyfire mode, and until they get grounded get a lot of snap-shot attention i'm sure. But that's no different than now, so it shouldn't be shocking. I've lost 2 flying hive tyrants, in swoop mode, in 1 turn to guardian spam eldar before. it sucks, but it happens.
Edited to fix quotebox.
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Post by: ductvader
 gorgon wrote:Someone on BOLS is saying that Shrikes are in! So we'll see. Of course, they could use a points break, and based on the Warriors that might not be happening. :( Still, access to fleet makes them a smidge more interesting. MCs also get more interesting with fleet, as do Primes. Primes look like they might be one of the winners in the new book. Wings for primes are probably too much to hope for, though. :(
I hope not, honestly, it was the only thing on my wishlist for a new codex.
I would have been perfectly fine with a copy/pasted book and Prime Wings...so...I ran the Parasite a lot.
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Post by: the shrouded lord
ductvader wrote:Stormbreed wrote:Backlash wrote:We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.
If that post earlier about SwarmLord is true, I hope we can also give him wings!
What?
Swamlord is unique and can't be given anything...besides Tyrant Guard and a target...any target.
You mean that dead thing over there, right?
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Post by: pretre
 Therion wrote: pretre wrote:Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...
Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.
What's the difference between an army builder that allows you to build a Tyranid army using the latest codex and the Force Requisition/Army Requisition? He said it allows you to choose a unit and the weapons you want for it and the feature works out the points costs. So what's the difference other than the name, being their idea and all?
You're the only one who said that GW was saying they invented the idea for Army Builders. Everyone else is acknowledging that they just added an army builder to the digidex.
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Post by: SHUPPET
tetrisphreak wrote: Ah, yes. Forgot that one - but as it doesn't roll to-hit and the effect is pretty good ( 2d6+2 -leadership in wounds with no saves on multiple units) I'd still be okay with rolling it on a flyrant. Also Swooping MC's can run -that's where the 2d6 comes from. So the crones, harpies, and flyrants we are hypothetically casting onslaught on WILL be on skyfire mode, and until they get grounded get a lot of snap-shot attention i'm sure. But that's no different than now, so it shouldn't be shocking. I've lost 2 flying hive tyrants, in swoop mode, in 1 turn to guardian spam eldar before. it sucks, but it happens. Edited to fix quotebox.
FMC's cannot start the game in Swoop mode :S which is why I assumed you guys realised you were still in JI mode while talking about turn 1 running and gunning with Onslaught. And by turn two Onslaught is useless because they have moved up to 24" plus the 12" jump infantry move from turn 1 so they are striking out just as far as in your example, without needing to roll double 6's =). Which they couldn't do regardless, because they cannot be in Swoop mode turn anyway. So yeah your theories for Onslaught is flawed to say the least. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, on your subject of of Psychic Shriek, here's a quote I made earlier.  SHUPPET wrote:Psychic Scream, which at the cost of firing a weapon is REALLY situational (it is highly reliant on opponents army choice, as well as both of your positioning choices, and even then has a roll to cast, roll to deny, and a roll for leadership to deal damage), but is not of absolutely NO use (I mean it will do more to a Fire Warrior squad than 6 devourer shots)
Follow quotelink for a full paragraph from me on how the new table has affected the Flyrant (aka our #1 caster).
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Post by: tetrisphreak
SHUPPET wrote: tetrisphreak wrote:
Ah, yes. Forgot that one - but as it doesn't roll to-hit and the effect is pretty good ( 2d6+2 -leadership in wounds with no saves on multiple units) I'd still be okay with rolling it on a flyrant.
Also Swooping MC's can run -that's where the 2d6 comes from. So the crones, harpies, and flyrants we are hypothetically casting onslaught on WILL be on skyfire mode, and until they get grounded get a lot of snap-shot attention i'm sure. But that's no different than now, so it shouldn't be shocking. I've lost 2 flying hive tyrants, in swoop mode, in 1 turn to guardian spam eldar before. it sucks, but it happens.
Edited to fix quotebox.
FMC's cannot start the game in Swoop mode :S which is why I assumed you guys realised you were still in JI mode while talking about turn 1 running and gunning with Onslaught. And by turn two Onslaught is useless because they have moved up to 24" plus the 12" jump infantry move from turn 1 so they are striking out just as far as in your example, without needing to roll double 6's =). Which they couldn't do regardless, because they cannot be in Swoop mode turn anyway. So yeah your theories for Onslaught is flawed to say the least.
Uh, wow. You've got a gross misinterpretation of the rules.
Turn 1 - Flying tryrant is in Jump Infantry mode, it's the start of the game.
I cast Onslaught, targeting itself. It may now run/shoot.
Movement phase, I engage Swooping mode and move 24". Tyrant is now airborne.
Shooting Phase, it runs 2d6" (with fleet if adrenals were upgraded), then fires off the twin linked devourers
Profit
You START the game on the ground, but in the movement phase the FMC can go to swoop mode no matter what turn it is.
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Post by: Therion
pretre wrote: Therion wrote: pretre wrote:Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...
Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.
What's the difference between an army builder that allows you to build a Tyranid army using the latest codex and the Force Requisition/Army Requisition? He said it allows you to choose a unit and the weapons you want for it and the feature works out the points costs. So what's the difference other than the name, being their idea and all?
You're the only one who said that GW was saying they invented the idea for Army Builders. Everyone else is acknowledging that they just added an army builder to the digidex.
Everyone except you of course. If the army requisition is in fact an army builder by a different name, then it's not their idea, contrary to what you actually replied to me.
I wouldn't doubt it, stays close to the current Harpy statline and suits the probable costing we've been hearing.
Pretty much still pure win against everything but Broadsides.
I'm not going to tell people to stop jumping to conclusions, but people are making judgments on this book based on the wargear and psychic powers list. So, we know that the wargear isn't that great and the psychic powers are hit and miss (some very good some very bad). That still doesn't tell us anything about the power level of this book. As far as I've been able to discern we still don't know the details for synapse, shadow in the warp, any of the important points cost, weapon stats, force organisation structure & allies, fortifications, etc. Basically we have nothing verified on any of the important stuff.
Frankly I'm wondering if these scanned leaks are sponsored by GW because they're so obnoxiously unclear. If you're posting full pictures of GW's unreleased copyrighted material why not post the entire codex then? It literally takes a person less than two minutes to take pics of every relevant rules page and then hosting them on a pics dump.
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Post by: ductvader
tetrisphreak wrote:You START the game on the ground, but in the movement phase the FMC can go to swoop mode no matter what turn it is.
Every other week I have to explain this to someone who is stuck on the flier rules.
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Post by: Zookie
I think people are running to extremes here. Either dooming a codex they have not read yet, or clinging to a desperate hope that there is rule that has been totally off all rumor radars that that will make the Tyranids into the top codex of 6th edition.
To those who are depressed or angry about what we are seeing keep in mind that most codexes have 3 or 4 MVPs that are the glue of the army. The rest fill niche roles for how person wishes to tailor their army. Units continually change roles from edition to edition and codex to codex. So unit that was an MVP before might be more of a support unit this edition. It just means you have to reshuffle your army. Perhaps tervigons will go from "cram as many as you can into an army" to "1 to 2 tervigons are a good support choice." It does not mean that tyranids are not competitive anymore, just that the old tactics and builds are not competitive anymore.
To those who are holding out for a yet unknown rule that will fix every disappointment the leaked rules have shown you. Just realize that is not going to happen. The codex cannot be all things to all people. Everyone will have a different view of a "dream codex." Some people want to see a return of stealer shock, other want a list that lets you push Nidzilla to the limits. Others want a pure swarm that can be viable without MCs, and yet others want to see a return to the mutable stats of 4th edition or a warrior spam list. But in the end if you have very narrow expectations of what the codex will or should be your just setting yourself up to be discouraged.(It's like dating. You are much better off to get to try know a person and see if you like them rather that hunt for "the one" based on a preconceived check list your in your mind).
In the end if you really want to enjoy the next few days and weeks learning the codex don't focus on what you think it should be. But try to learn what it is how it works and how it does not. It will be a lot more fun that way, and after all it is a game. If it is not fun for you then what it the point?
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Post by: Hivefleet Oblivion
Forgeworld are getting in on the act with a Tyranid Bundle. No new models, ripper swarm and winged ripper bundles. Small saving of around 10% or so on things like the winged rippers - 27 of 'em for £52.50.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Forge__World_Bundles?page=1
And the fact they still do the warrior wings is further confirmation for any doubters that Shrikes are still with us.
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Post by: SHUPPET
tetrisphreak wrote:
Turn 1 - Flying tryrant is in Jump Infantry mode, it's the start of the game.
I cast Onslaught, targeting itself. It may now run/shoot.
Movement phase, I engage Swooping mode and move 24". Tyrant is now airborne.
Shooting Phase, it runs 2d6" (with fleet if adrenals were upgraded), then fires off the twin linked devourers
Profit
You START the game on the ground, but in the movement phase the FMC can go to swoop mode no matter what turn it is.
This actually does give some very viable use for onslaught, and I take back my past statement. I'll be definitely attempting this if I roll Onslaught.
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Post by: Redemption
Eldercaveman wrote:Did you REALLY want/expect a copy paste of the Baleflamer?
I had hoped for Torrent at least, yes, I'm fine with the S6 and AP4. Considering it's about the same cost as a Heldrake but slower and more fragile, that wouldn't really be overpowering would it? Hopefully the Tentaclids are useful.
tetrisphreak wrote:
Area Denial is your friend. If you make a large section of the table a place where the enemy does not want to be, you are that much better at holding an objective there. Add in LOS blocking terrain and you've got a good thing going.
Fair point, but you don't really need the Hive Crone for that; a Winged Hive Tyrant would do the same job without being so fragile, and, depending on what the Tentaclids turn out to be, have better range weapons to boot.
tetrisphreak wrote:I guess we're all assuming it's a flamer template and not a large/small blast weapon...?
Didn't one of the first leaks ( WD or that Korean guy?) mention it's a template weapon? Can't remember the exact source.
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Post by: pretre
Did this post yet?
via anonymous over on 4chan
Bio Artefacts of the Tyranids
1.The Maw-Claws of Thyrax- S: user AP5 Melee, Assimilate (can give preferred enemy), rending
2.The Norn Crown- Increases synapse 6"
3.The Miasma Cannon
Spit: Rang 36" S1 AP4 Assault 1, blast, poisoned 2+
Spray: Template S1 AP4 Assault 1, poisoned 2+
4.The Ymgarl Factor- Can choose a new ability every assault phase, Slashing Claw, Tentacled Limbs, Protective Carapace
5. The Reaper of Obliterax- S+1 AP3 Melee, Life Drain (rolls of 6 have instant death), Shred, Swiftstrike (+3 init)
Powers of the Hive Mind
Primaris: Dominion-6" additional synapse
1. Catalyst : FNP
2. The Horror: pinning test
3. Onslaught: Unit can run and shoot
4. Paroxysm: Targets WS and BS lowered
5. Psychic Scream: Nova power; 2d6+2 vs ldrship or take difference in wounds
6. Warp Blast: Burst 24" S5 AP3 blast, Lance 18" S10 AP2 lance
Biomorphs
Acid Blood- Initiative check or take damage
Acid Maw-sacrifice attacks for a single S5 Ap2 attack
Adrenal Glands-fleet, furious charge
Blinding venom-sacrifice attacks for S3 melee blind and poisoned 6+ attack
Regeneration: 4+ to regen
Toxic Miasma: suffer additional hits in melee
Flesh Hooks and Spine Banks: grenades with shooting attack
Toxin sacs: poisoned special rule
Wings: becomes flying monstrous creature
Tail Biomorphs: Bone Mace, Prehensile Pincer, Thresther Scythe, Toxin Spike
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Post by: DarkStarSabre
Pretre, we have the actual scans a few pages back in this thread.
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Post by: streamdragon
pg 108 has the scanned pages.
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Post by: Thranriel
Yup but now people cant say they missed it haha!
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Post by: Therion
That guy 'answering questions' on Bell of Lost Souls seems to be full of it. Another one of these mysterious posters who get 25 detailed questions and then answer 1 of them in as confusing and contradictory manner as possible. I wouldn't believe a word.
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Post by: pretre
Aha, missed it.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
The bio-artifact's fluff doesn't make much sense, imo.
How can there be only "one" of them in existence? Can't the hive mind just grow another? Rare I can understand - maybe it takes a long time and a lot of biomass to grow something that sophisticated. But "only one in existence" doesn't seem right.
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Post by: Therion
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:The bio-artifact's fluff doesn't make much sense, imo.
How can there be only "one" of them in existence? Can't the hive mind just grow another? Rare I can understand - maybe it takes a long time and a lot of biomass to grow something that sophisticated. But "only one in existence" doesn't seem right.
I'm pretty sure you can find a Tyranid career progression in the new fluff somewhere. They probably have a Tyrant in there who started as a meagre Ripper but showed so much promise that he kept getting benefits and salary increases. They added that to Daemons as well. You can start your career as just a rookie Bloodletter and work your way up the Khorne company and become a big earner. Wait for CS Goto to write a short story of the Swarmlord and Marneus Calgar negotiating a non aggression pact while enjoying tea and other refreshments.
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Post by: MadmanMSU
CthuluIsSpy wrote:The bio-artifact's fluff doesn't make much sense, imo.
How can there be only "one" of them in existence? Can't the hive mind just grow another? Rare I can understand - maybe it takes a long time and a lot of biomass to grow something that sophisticated. But "only one in existence" doesn't seem right.
I don't think "sense" should be anywhere near GW products. Just roll with it.
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Post by: Thranriel
So Quad gun vs the Crone or Harpy anyone?
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Post by: MadmanMSU
Without doing the math...quad can only do 4 wounds max, and Crone has 5, so I guess at least it can't kill it in one go.
/silver-lining
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Post by: Therion
If they're T5 4+ you can just forget all about them. Every skyfire autocannon, high-yield missile pod, heavy burst cannon etc. will mow them down, and it's not like they have an easy time vs. the standard tesla spam either.
One of the flyers better have SV3+ like the first rumours indicated.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
MadmanMSU wrote:
Without doing the math...quad can only do 4 wounds max, and Crone has 5, so I guess at least it can't kill it in one go.
/silver-lining
S9 grounding hit 
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Post by: Redemption
Therion wrote:
If they're T5 4+ you can just forget all about them. Every skyfire autocannon, high-yield missile pod, heavy burst cannon etc. will mow them down, and it's not like they have an easy time vs. the standard tesla spam either.
One of the flyers better have SV3+ like the first rumours indicated.
And don't forget it can also be grounded, after which a single Tactical Squad in rapid fire range can finish it off with their bolters. And no, the only FMC with a 3+ will still be the Hive Tyrant, the Harpy and Crone share the T5 W5 4+ statline.
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Post by: ductvader
Guys, Tyranids are the worst possible army to try and throw in a vacuum.
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Post by: streamdragon
Because drawing inferences from statistics and numbers is meaningless, amirite?
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Post by: AesSedai
Redemption, source?
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Post by: Redemption
Redemption wrote:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?40459-Copy-Of-Tyranid-Codex-In-Hand&p=382946&viewfull=1#post382946
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Post by: xttz
Did that guy on BOLS verify he owns the codex with a photo?
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Post by: Thranriel
ductvader wrote:Guys, Tyranids are the worst possible army to try and throw in a vacuum.
I agree however if the enemy has a skyfiring interceptor quadgun its probably there to shoot at your flyers, and because its going to do so much more to the crone and harpy I would probably thing the enemy would go for them rather than say a flyrant. Don't get me wrong I think they might still have a place in the army when the codex comes out, but you are not going to be seeing one on its own, or with 1 flyrant.
I took a harpy once last addition and it was useless, the crone looks real interesting but I have a fear that it will just fall right out of the sky. My flyrant already has that problem and he has a 3+ save and T6 lol.
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Post by: Therion
To be fair that's not a credible source. That guy is just making gak up as he goes. He linked the same photos as Sinsigel on Warseer so unless he's the same guy how about take a picture of a different page than the psychic powers this time, for example the army list fast attack section. Can't be that hard, can it?
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Post by: streamdragon
So... a single set of scything talons is useless, but will probably still be default gear on warriors.
Looks like I need to break a lot of arms.
HAH! Just kidding, warriors aren't going on the table anyway, why bother?
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Post by: Redemption
Eh, the FMC profiles line up with what Sinsigel has been saying on Warseer, and the rest we basically already knew. I feel trying to hope he's just making it up is grasping at straws. Either way, I guess we'll know 100% sure soon enough.
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Post by: Thranriel
From guy on BOLS regarding hive guard:
old cannon ignore cover remain the same
new cannon is EMP but same range as devourer and S of the Broodlord
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
After a glance at the codex today a couple things make me sad :
Nothing I saw indicated you can still add the benefits of cc weapons together, so it's the regular pick one weapon to use rule
and Scything talons are just Close Combat weapons with AP6, no re-rolls no nothing ...
Honestly I noticed a bunch of bad changes, and only a few good ones ...
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Post by: xttz
Someone needs to find out about Venomthropes. They could make some powerful builds if they're good now.
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
xttz wrote:Someone needs to find out about Venomthropes. They could make some powerful builds if they're good now.
What do you want to know about them? Same profile (except BS3 instead of 4 which didn't make sense) ,they have shrouded and give it to their buddies close-by. I don't remember any defensive grenades-like abilities
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Post by: Therion
Redemption wrote:Eh, the FMC profiles line up with what Sinsigel has been saying on Warseer, and the rest we basically already knew. I feel trying to hope he's just making it up is grasping at straws. Either way, I guess we'll know 100% sure soon enough.
No, actually it's the other way around. People in these threads are so utterly desperate for any new rumours that it doesn't matter what anonymous guy comes in making stuff up you'll get 50 guys lining up to ask questions and 5 other guys linking and tweeting the stuff to 10 other locations. Frankly I'm surprised how guys like pretre can do this stuff, considering how large majority of supposedly reliable rumours we get turn out to be utter bullgak. I wonder what the Nid rumour tracker will say after all is said and done since this has once again been a storm of bullgak.
A rational person who has the book and wants to share it with the community, and has already taken pictures of copyrighted unreleased material and spread it worldwide, would
a) take pictures of all the rules pages and share them all
or
b) spend 10 minutes and draft a compilation of every relevant new unit, their points cost, weapon options, stats etc.
or
c) answer every question in rapid fire fashion, basically being able to answer about 50 rules questions per hour
We've had that before when it was legit, but when guys pop in and answer a question once per hour and the answer is " lol haha btw no torrent on flyers" when noone even knows if it's a blast or a template weapon, you can color me not entertained.
48486
Post by: Thranriel
More from Mr BOLS:
Do any of the psykers get rulebook access?
Is death leaper an ic?
What's the deal with parasite?
What's the deal with tervigons?
Do lictors remain squads of 1-3 or do you buy up to three per slot and operate independently?
NO XD
yeah and you blindshoot him but rending on 6
parasite? what parasite? never existed
they cost more like 1 tyranid shrike
same as before but operate in group and now they infiltrate (thats good i guess)
I hope to god this guy is making stuff up
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
So, haven't been able to find anything, but... any word on whether or not Shrikes are in the book? I noticed the biomorph page listed wings, but it only seems to imply the presence of flying monstrous creatures (unless of course they're just listed as jump infantry). I have 27 of the buggers sitting on my desk, gonna quit nids if I cant use em (I built my entire army around a cc-only concept), the Shrikes were essential to my list.
26519
Post by: xttz
 B0B MaRlEy wrote: xttz wrote:Someone needs to find out about Venomthropes. They could make some powerful builds if they're good now.
What do you want to know about them? Same profile (except BS3 instead of 4 which didn't make sense) ,they have shrouded and give it to their buddies close-by. I don't remember any defensive grenades-like abilities
Can they join units? Do they have any other effects beyond Shrouded?
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
chaos0xomega wrote:So, haven't been able to find anything, but... any word on whether or not Shrikes are in the book? I noticed the biomorph page listed wings, but it only seems to imply the presence of flying monstrous creatures (unless of course they're just listed as jump infantry). I have 27 of the buggers sitting on my desk, gonna quit nids if I cant use em (I built my entire army around a cc-only concept), the Shrikes were essential to my list.
Shrikes and Flying swarms are in, other units without models are out (the Parasite, the Doom, spores ,...) they're 5 points cheaper each too
50463
Post by: Eldercaveman
chaos0xomega wrote:So, haven't been able to find anything, but... any word on whether or not Shrikes are in the book? I noticed the biomorph page listed wings, but it only seems to imply the presence of flying monstrous creatures (unless of course they're just listed as jump infantry). I have 27 of the buggers sitting on my desk, gonna quit nids if I cant use em (I built my entire army around a cc-only concept), the Shrikes were essential to my list.
It seems you are in look, have a scan through the last 2-3 pages, all fingers are pointing to them being in still.
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
xttz wrote: B0B MaRlEy wrote: xttz wrote:Someone needs to find out about Venomthropes. They could make some powerful builds if they're good now.
What do you want to know about them? Same profile (except BS3 instead of 4 which didn't make sense) ,they have shrouded and give it to their buddies close-by. I don't remember any defensive grenades-like abilities
Can they join units? Do they have any other effects beyond Shrouded?
I don't remember them having IC and they don't grant more than shrouded IIRC
4884
Post by: Therion
Thranriel wrote:
I hope to god this guy is making stuff up
Nothing he just wrote there was new. It was all stuff from atleast a week old circulating rumour of the Deathleaper being HQ and having the 'Surprise' snap shot rule. The rest of the stuff is just some incoherent teen lolzmegawutz talk.
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Therion wrote:Thranriel wrote:
I hope to god this guy is making stuff up
Nothing he just wrote there was new. It was all stuff from atleast a week old circulating rumour of the Deathleaper being HQ and having the 'Surprise' snap shot rule. The rest of the stuff is just some incoherent teen lolzmegawutz talk.
He's right about the psychic powers, none of the psykers in the book I checked had access to BRB powers.
Deathleaper is indeed an HQ, and can only be shot at as snap shots. His warlord trait gives him VPs for killing ICs in challenges I think.
Did the warlord traits leak out already or should I give them?
40649
Post by: Bodiless
Any modifications to the FoC?
Edit: What does chameleonic skin do?
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Except Old one eye and Deathleaper as HQs, nothing I noticed. The red Terror is an upgrade for raveners.
I don't think any special characters modify the slots of units
Chameleonic skin was something along the lines of doesn't scatter if it deep strikes
77233
Post by: Caederes
Are Hive Guard cheaper?
Have Tyrant Guard changed at all?
Did Tervigons go up a lot or a little in cost?
What are the different types of spore mines for Harpies/Biovores?
4884
Post by: Therion
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Therion wrote:Thranriel wrote:
I hope to god this guy is making stuff up
Nothing he just wrote there was new. It was all stuff from atleast a week old circulating rumour of the Deathleaper being HQ and having the 'Surprise' snap shot rule. The rest of the stuff is just some incoherent teen lolzmegawutz talk.
He's right about the psychic powers, none of the psykers in the book I checked had access to BRB powers.
Deathleaper is indeed an HQ, and can only be shot at as snap shots. His warlord trait gives him VPs for killing ICs in challenges I think.
Did the warlord traits leak out already or should I give them?
If you have the codex I'm sure people really aren't that interested about the warlord traits. People want to know the detailed descriptions of synapse and shadow in the warp. I'm sure people would also be interested in the weapon stats for new stuff like the Exocrine, and the statlines and points costs for the Harpy and Crone. In addition to these questions I'm sure the force organisation chart, allies matrix / allying with yourself and fortifications issue is on everyone's mind.
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
B0B MaRlEy wrote:chaos0xomega wrote:So, haven't been able to find anything, but... any word on whether or not Shrikes are in the book? I noticed the biomorph page listed wings, but it only seems to imply the presence of flying monstrous creatures (unless of course they're just listed as jump infantry). I have 27 of the buggers sitting on my desk, gonna quit nids if I cant use em (I built my entire army around a cc-only concept), the Shrikes were essential to my list.
Shrikes and Flying swarms are in, other units without models are out (the Parasite, the Doom, spores ,...) they're 5 points cheaper each too
Brilliant, that will save me over 100 pts!! Now if only boneswords were cheaper 
74772
Post by: the shrouded lord
I'm not worried about the release. I only play against foot log marines, wraith eldar, and chaos. Also occasional necrons.
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Therion wrote: B0B MaRlEy wrote: Therion wrote:Thranriel wrote:
I hope to god this guy is making stuff up
Nothing he just wrote there was new. It was all stuff from atleast a week old circulating rumour of the Deathleaper being HQ and having the 'Surprise' snap shot rule. The rest of the stuff is just some incoherent teen lolzmegawutz talk.
He's right about the psychic powers, none of the psykers in the book I checked had access to BRB powers.
Deathleaper is indeed an HQ, and can only be shot at as snap shots. His warlord trait gives him VPs for killing ICs in challenges I think.
Did the warlord traits leak out already or should I give them?
If you have the codex I'm sure people really aren't that interested about the warlord traits. People want to know the detailed descriptions of synapse and shadow in the warp. I'm sure people would also be interested in the weapon stats for new stuff like the Exocrine, and the statlines and points costs for the Harpy and Crone. In addition to these questions I'm sure the force organisation chart, allies matrix / allying with yourself and fortifications issue is on everyone's mind.
I don't have it on hand, read it through today. Synapse's same old fearless and no IB , Shadow in the warp is -3ld for psychic tests. Harpy gained a wound and shares the profile with the crone, the Exocrine's rules are the ones in the rumor (24" gun, +1BS if it remains stationnary) . I didn't catch anything about allies, and fortifications I don't think are mentionned. Tyranids get to "man" guns once again? I'll have to check that.
26519
Post by: xttz
A dude on 4chan is posting stuff now, but hasn't given any proof he has the codex yet http://boards.4chan.org/tg/res/29361982#p29365379
T-fex - 175 base
Mawloc - 140 base
Trygon Prime - 230 base
Carnifex - 120 base
Harpy - 135 base
Crone - 155 base
Haruspex - 160 base (gak has just 3 attacks +1 from 2 pairs of hands)
77474
Post by: SHUPPET
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Therion wrote: B0B MaRlEy wrote: Therion wrote:Thranriel wrote:
I hope to god this guy is making stuff up
Nothing he just wrote there was new. It was all stuff from atleast a week old circulating rumour of the Deathleaper being HQ and having the 'Surprise' snap shot rule. The rest of the stuff is just some incoherent teen lolzmegawutz talk.
He's right about the psychic powers, none of the psykers in the book I checked had access to BRB powers.
Deathleaper is indeed an HQ, and can only be shot at as snap shots. His warlord trait gives him VPs for killing ICs in challenges I think.
Did the warlord traits leak out already or should I give them?
If you have the codex I'm sure people really aren't that interested about the warlord traits. People want to know the detailed descriptions of synapse and shadow in the warp. I'm sure people would also be interested in the weapon stats for new stuff like the Exocrine, and the statlines and points costs for the Harpy and Crone. In addition to these questions I'm sure the force organisation chart, allies matrix / allying with yourself and fortifications issue is on everyone's mind.
I don't have it on hand, read it through today. Synapse's same old fearless and no IB , Shadow in the warp is -3ld for psychic tests. Harpy gained a wound and shares the profile with the crone, the Exocrine's rules are the ones in the rumor (24" gun, +1BS if it remains stationnary) . I didn't catch anything about allies, and fortifications I don't think are mentionned. Tyranids get to "man" guns once again? I'll have to check that.
Did you see any possible way of conferring EW to Warriors, and is the Trygon tunnel rule definitely unchanged? These are the main two things on my mind.
3330
Post by: Kirasu
So.. is there anything actually good about this codex yet? If Crone is 4+ save and can be grounded you might as well throw it away like the Harpy..
Semi-decent random psychic powers aren't that useful unless they're VERY powerful which none seem to be..Flying hive tyrants werent mediocre before and don't seem to be much better now.
Was anything actually upgraded to be more useful? All information points to bad units remaining the same. Sorry but the march of slow MCs isnt something to be scared of.
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
SHUPPET wrote:
Did you see any possible way of conferring EW to Warriors, and is the Trygon tunnel rule definitely unchanged? These are the main two things on my mind.
No EW in the book that I noticed, and I didn't check the trygon's page sadly, didn't have much time with the book.sorry
77474
Post by: SHUPPET
B0B MaRlEy wrote: SHUPPET wrote:
Did you see any possible way of conferring EW to Warriors, and is the Trygon tunnel rule definitely unchanged? These are the main two things on my mind.
No EW in the book that I noticed, and I didn't check the trygon's page sadly, didn't have much time with the book.sorry
That's fine and thanks for taking the time out to answer regardless. Really appreciate the sharing, have an exalt and a nice day 
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
B0B MaRlEy wrote: SHUPPET wrote:
Did you see any possible way of conferring EW to Warriors, and is the Trygon tunnel rule definitely unchanged? These are the main two things on my mind.
No EW in the book that I noticed, and I didn't check the trygon's page sadly, didn't have much time with the book.sorry
I'd be interested in hearing the Warlord traits, if you remember them.
4884
Post by: Therion
SHUPPET wrote: B0B MaRlEy wrote: SHUPPET wrote:
Did you see any possible way of conferring EW to Warriors, and is the Trygon tunnel rule definitely unchanged? These are the main two things on my mind.
No EW in the book that I noticed, and I didn't check the trygon's page sadly, didn't have much time with the book.sorry
That's fine and thanks for taking the time out to answer regardless. Really appreciate the sharing, have an exalt and a nice day
No offence considering that guy is being polite and all but once again we have someone who 'had access to the book' but didn't post anything of value at all. Literally everything he said was posted in this very thread weeks ago.
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
tetrisphreak wrote: B0B MaRlEy wrote: SHUPPET wrote:
Did you see any possible way of conferring EW to Warriors, and is the Trygon tunnel rule definitely unchanged? These are the main two things on my mind.
No EW in the book that I noticed, and I didn't check the trygon's page sadly, didn't have much time with the book.sorry
I'd be interested in hearing the Warlord traits, if you remember them.
1 Allowed the warlord to turn a jungle/wood piece of terrain nearby (12"?) into the carnivorous jungle result from the mysterious terrain rules (for a turn?)
One grants FnP to the warlord for a turn provided it lost a wound ( OOE has this one)
Pshycophage : Get VPs for ICs killed by the warlord in a challenge (Deathleaper has this one)
One decreased a piece of terrain's cover save at the beginning of the game
one gives 18" Synapse range (Swarmlord)
Can't remember the last one
20774
Post by: pretre
B0B MaRlEy wrote:1 Allowed the warlord to turn a jungle/wood piece of terrain nearby (12"?) into the carnivorous jungle result from the mysterious terrain rules (for a turn?)
One grants FnP to the warlord for a turn provided it lost a wound ( OOE has this one)
Pshycophage : Get VPs for ICs killed by the warlord in a challenge (Deathleaper has this one)
One decreased a piece of terrain's cover save at the beginning of the game
one gives 18" Synapse range (Swarmlord)
Can't remember the last one
I think the only new one there is the FNP one since we knew DL's and had this previously:
"Warlord traits include buff to synapse range, reducing cover, turning a forest into more carnivorous one, etc. "
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
People are saying that there's no mention of FOC altering (so no self-allying until we get supplements) and no mention of fortifications (so until the FAQ prohibits it we'll be able to once again shoot quad guns and icarus lascannons).
20774
Post by: pretre
tetrisphreak wrote:People are saying that there's no mention of FOC altering (so no self-allying until we get supplements) and no mention of fortifications (so until the FAQ prohibits it we'll be able to once again shoot quad guns and icarus lascannons).
yeah, I thought the allying with themselves thing was unlikely.
48486
Post by: Thranriel
From the tyranidhive:
Warlord Traits:
1 - Nature's Bane - At the beginning of each movement phase, select one jungle within 12' of the warlord. It becomes carnivorous for the game.
2 - Heightened Senses - Warlord and Nids within 12' have Night Vision.
3- Synaptic Linchpin - Warlord has 18' synapse
4 - Mind Eater - 2 VP for independents slain by warlord in a challenge.
5 - Digestive Denial - After deployment, pick one piece of terrain on opponent's side that was NOT paid for. Cover save worsens by one. (4+ becomes 5+, etc.)
6 - Adaptive Biology - Warlord gains FNP (5+) on next movement phase after it suffers a wound. (For rest of game)
20774
Post by: pretre
That first one is sooo bad.
edit: In fact, 1 and 5 are bad. 2 is meh. At least 3, 4 and 6 are okay.
Also, like most codexes, assigned traits will trump rolling for them.
48486
Post by: Thranriel
I just want to know what it is with GW and synapse range? You could have a 24" bubble according to this. Why would I want that?
20774
Post by: pretre
 Thranriel wrote:I just want to know what it is with GW and synapse range? You could have a 24" bubble according to this. Why would I want that?
Why wouldn't you want a larger synapse bubble?
27151
Post by: streamdragon
1. Without protection from said Carnivorous jungle, our own troops (which rely on cover just as much as anyone) get eaten. Nice. Hopefully this says "may", otherwise forests in our deployment zone are a bad idea.
2. Woo hoo. *finger twirl*
3. Nice. So take this guy, give him the Norn Crown and Dominion. 30" synapse. Hilarious, but also kinda pointless.
4. So uh... are we going to get rules to allow us to issue challenges? Because as of now, I didn't think Tyrants of Tervigons could issue or accept. Wouldn't shock me if this is an oversight on GW's part.
5. Unit trait of the Chaos Tech dude, as a warlord trait. S'aight.
6. What everyone will probably want to roll, and will convince some people that this table is "good".
20774
Post by: pretre
 streamdragon wrote:3. Nice. So take this guy, give him the Norn Crown and Dominion. 30" synapse. Hilarious, but also kinda pointless.
Unless shadows and synapse are the same bubble. muhahahaha
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Therion wrote: SHUPPET wrote: B0B MaRlEy wrote: SHUPPET wrote:
Did you see any possible way of conferring EW to Warriors, and is the Trygon tunnel rule definitely unchanged? These are the main two things on my mind.
No EW in the book that I noticed, and I didn't check the trygon's page sadly, didn't have much time with the book.sorry
That's fine and thanks for taking the time out to answer regardless. Really appreciate the sharing, have an exalt and a nice day
No offence considering that guy is being polite and all but once again we have someone who 'had access to the book' but didn't post anything of value at all. Literally everything he said was posted in this very thread weeks ago.
To be honest most things have been said. Shrikes and Raveners cost 5 points less each, the zoanthropes are a lvl 2 Brotherhood of psykers, harpy's spore bombardment isn't one use only anymore, unlike what I've read Crushing claws aren't S: X2 but S: +1 AP 2 unwiledy and armourbane, the new hive guard's gun 's a S5 blast with disruption at 18". Will try to think of more Automatically Appended Next Post: streamdragon wrote:1. Without protection from said Carnivorous jungle, our own troops (which rely on cover just as much as anyone) get eaten. Nice. Hopefully this says "may", otherwise forests in our deployment zone are a bad idea.
2. Woo hoo. *finger twirl*
3. Nice. So take this guy, give him the Norn Crown and Dominion. 30" synapse. Hilarious, but also kinda pointless.
4. So uh... are we going to get rules to allow us to issue challenges? Because as of now, I didn't think Tyrants of Tervigons could issue or accept. Wouldn't shock me if this is an oversight on GW's part.
5. Unit trait of the Chaos Tech dude, as a warlord trait. S'aight.
6. What everyone will probably want to roll, and will convince some people that this table is "good".
Tyrants and tervigons are characters since the beginning of V6 ....
29104
Post by: frankencowx
How do they expect to move these shiny new tyrant guard/warrior boxes without shiny new rules for them?
26170
Post by: davethepak
Well, after reading here, and hundreds of other posts on warseer, bols and 4chan (that was painful....worse than polotical posts on yahoo) - I think we are getting a picture.
Here are a some of my assessments;
The Good
* There are still a lot of things we don't know, and some of these things could make a big impact.
* We got a points reduction in MC's and a few gribbles, so that is good.
* New models is good.
* Shrikes and flying rippers are prolly still in.
* we may have a few EMP weapons.
* catalyst got a nice buff.
* sounds like the new big bug might actually have AP2,although short range.
* crones vector strike is very good (S8AP3).
* venomthrope may have shrouded, and can grant it.
* deathleaper might be fun to use, and build some sort of list around.
* Onslaught might open up some good combos.
* some of the leaked warlord traits are good.
* zoeys may have ML2 and brotherhood of psykers.
* Blinding venom, while not useful for wounds (poison 6?) can be used per model, so you might be able to throw in a few blind attacks (only need to hit to force checks) in a swarm of gargs.
* there may be some good combos out there - brood lord horror to pin enemy unit so stealers can charge through cover. etc.
The Bad.
* Breaking Bad Rumors - There tons and tons of just wrong rumors and mis quotes, which others are picking up and spreading as gospel.
For example, many have said "we can now get 2+ from the ymgrl thing" which spread to "we can now get 2+ saves, I saw the scan!".
No, we can get 2+ in one assault phase, for one model, that lasts until the end of that phase. Then if alive, he can get it again in a few turns.
* Harpy and Crone t5 with 4+ save. I am glad I did not order one.
* venomthrope is not an IC.
* stealers and warriors are still very fragile.
* doom and parasite are out.
* pods out.
* scything talons might be nerfed.
* warp lance is WC2
* toxic misasma is pretty weak, as s3 ap- once per game. Thats a once per game power?
* some of the warlord traits are quite MEH.
And the Ugly
* The Possibility of no BRB powers.
* S3 weapons in a lot of places....sounds like designed to kill tau and guard.
* malenthropes are still terrible (but FW has a new bundle for them).
* The relics are incredibly under par from any recent books.
** Was I expecting a biomorph that granted a 3++ and EW? Of course not, that would be....a space marine.
** the relic gun is an ap4 flamer. If you are that close to guard and tau, they are dead anyway.
So, there are a few good things in there, and overall, we did get a boost.
I can say, as someone who plays Tau, marines and other books (and against a lot of other books) this clearly looks more like a DA "upgrade" dex more than the huge boosts Tau and Eldar got, or even the very well done work SM got.
There is one silver lining .....at least we don't have to worry about a ton of codex hoppers jumping on our book....
27151
Post by: streamdragon
pretre wrote:Unless shadows and synapse are the same bubble. muhahahaha
Be honest. What do you think the chances of that are? Because I'd say the probability is somewhere just above 0.
B0B MaRlEy wrote:Tyrants and tervigons are characters since the beginning of V6 ....
Well holy crap. Never noticed that. Then again, I barely played my Nids so that's not surprising. Still, The More You Know ( tm).
Edit: @Davethepak; those lists are hilarious unbalanced. I would call this dex a sidegrade at best. At best.
181
Post by: gorgon
 Kirasu wrote:Was anything actually upgraded to be more useful? All information points to bad units remaining the same. Sorry but the march of slow MCs isnt something to be scared of.
Well, anything that can take adrenal glands can now be fleet. And there's nothing wrong with a march of cheap dakkafexes.
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
Shock Cannon is a "Blast" weapon? Wow. That makes so little sense when the projectile is a spear with a single thread of electric cable connected to it. Not saying you're wrong as i obviusly haven't seen the book. But that IS strange.
To the folks who don't understand the boons of a larger synapse bubble:
I can infiltrate my lictors and genestealers (should i choose to use these). When they inevitably get shot at, as long as i'm not in syanpse I'm not fearless - they can go to ground for a 3+ or 2+ cover save. On my turn, I cast dominion and move to within synapse for the vanguard - they gain fearless and immediately stand up, with no restrictions on movement or assault. They proceed to run out of the crater they were in and actually do something for a change - get into melee.
77474
Post by: SHUPPET
tetrisphreak wrote:Shock Cannon is a "Blast" weapon? Wow. That makes so little sense when the projectile is a spear with a single thread of electric cable connected to it. Not saying you're wrong as i obviusly haven't seen the book. But that IS strange.
To the folks who don't understand the boons of a larger synapse bubble:
I can infiltrate my lictors and genestealers (should i choose to use these). When they inevitably get shot at, as long as i'm not in syanpse I'm not fearless - they can go to ground for a 3+ or 2+ cover save. On my turn, I cast dominion and move to within synapse for the vanguard - they gain fearless and immediately stand up, with no restrictions on movement or assault. They proceed to run out of the crater they were in and actually do something for a change - get into melee.
Oh my. That does sounds nice.
57667
Post by: MadmanMSU
Not sure I'm getting this right, but...
Deathleaper is HQ.
Deathleaper is Ind. Char.
Deathleaper can join units.
Deathleaper can only be shot at with snap shots.
Ergo...
Unit he joins can only be hit by snap shots?
Maybe?
27151
Post by: streamdragon
Assuming you, ya know, get to actually take your cover saves. Or there is unoccupied cover within range of what you're trying to charge (which makes your opponent sort of bad, honestly).
It's a nice trick, but hardly something for me to ooh and ah over, especially when a Flyrant can achieve the same thing by zooming.
74772
Post by: the shrouded lord
pretre wrote: streamdragon wrote:3. Nice. So take this guy, give him the Norn Crown and Dominion. 30" synapse. Hilarious, but also kinda pointless.
Unless shadows and synapse are the same bubble. muhahahaha
Oh so you want to cast that at my tyrant well ok, just roll your dice...
Ah, Ha, you got nine with leader ship 12, nothing happens.
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
MadmanMSU wrote:Not sure I'm getting this right, but...
Deathleaper is HQ.
Deathleaper is Ind. Char.
Deathleaper can join units.
Deathleaper can only be shot at with snap shots.
Ergo..
Unit he shoots at can only be hit by snap shots?
Maybe?
I don't remember him being an IC, just a character.
Soemthing I remember and I haven't seen mentionned : the tyrant powers : Old adversary is now for the tyrant only , and only close combat! The power that used to give +1 to reserve rolls and outflank a troop unit is now only the outflanking part, and the horror one is a ld malus against fear IIRC.
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
streamdragon wrote:Assuming you, ya know, get to actually take your cover saves. Or there is unoccupied cover within range of what you're trying to charge (which makes your opponent sort of bad, honestly).
It's a nice trick, but hardly something for me to ooh and ah over, especially when a Flyrant can achieve the same thing by zooming.
Sure a zooming flyrant is a guaranteed way to slingshot synapse.
And if the table doesn't have enough terrain that you can't put pressure on your opponent with close infiltrators then you're not playing with enough terrain and will probably lose to a shooting army anyway.
Armies that ignore cover regularly (tau, wave serpents) will give you trouble no matter WHERE you are on the table unless you have LOS blocking cover (and with smart missile systems not even those will help you). These armies are bad examples to give as "what if" counters because let's face it, they flat out counter everything right now.
In MOST standard games, it's a good trick to know and use. And for the times that your mid-game plan doesn't go just right, if you're out of synapse remembering that you can go to ground and then regroup in the following turn can save some gants or a venomthrope or something from dying when it doesn't have to. Just take the tactic and put it in your back pocket (if it wasn't already there).
to Bob Marley:
Brotherhood of Psykers on Zoanthropes? how does that work? Only 1 warp blast from the unit now, no matter how many models are in it?
5873
Post by: kirsanth
davethepak wrote:The Good * There are still a lot of things we don't know, and some of these things could make a big impact. . . . * Shrikes and flying rippers are prolly still in. * we may have a few EMP weapons. . . . * sounds like the new big bug might actually have AP2,although short range. . . . * venomthrope may have shrouded, and can grant it. * deathleaper might be fun to use, and build some sort of list around. * Onslaught might open up some good combos. * some of the leaked warlord traits are good. * zoeys may have ML2 and brotherhood of psykers. * Blinding venom, while not useful for wounds (poison 6?) can be used per model, so you might be able to throw in a few blind attacks (only need to hit to force checks) in a swarm of gargs. * there may be some good combos out there - brood lord horror to pin enemy unit so stealers can charge through cover. etc.
I laughed out loud reading these. Really.
61083
Post by: Stormbreed
So @ 1500, I'll run a Barbed Hyrdrule, 2 of the 24" range monsters, a group of hive guard and a swarmlord to guard the whole line.
I'll turtle and hope the 10 48" ST10 AP3 shots from the Hydrule can win the game. Otherwise we're garbage.
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
tetrisphreak wrote:
to Bob Marley:
Brotherhood of Psykers on Zoanthropes? how does that work? Only 1 warp blast from the unit now, no matter how many models are in it?
I misread it at first and got worried, but your brood of zoanthropes always has the warp blast power and 1 random other one (tyranids list) .
The warp blast's profile shoots a number of time equal to the number of zoanthropes in the brood. (so a 3 zoanthropes brood casting Warpblast will shoot 3 blasts or 3 lances)
71630
Post by: Roci
Sadly, if this is the case.. I'll be returning the pre-order stuff and using the money for a different army.
Makes me sad, if true, as they were my favorite army. Back to wraith wing.
77474
Post by: SHUPPET
streamdragon wrote:Assuming you, ya know, get to actually take your cover saves. Or there is unoccupied cover within range of what you're trying to charge (which makes your opponent sort of bad, honestly).
It's a nice trick, but hardly something for me to ooh and ah over, especially when a Flyrant can achieve the same thing by zooming.
Well to be fair, there is a large difference in points between Flyrant and Lictor. And you only have two Flyrants so I don't think this is something I would want to do with mine.
Taking the cover save may depend who you are playing against but cover ignoring weapons are a problem no matter what, having cover in the right spot might be a little bit harder but you should still have options.
B0B MaRlEy wrote:MadmanMSU wrote:Not sure I'm getting this right, but...
Deathleaper is HQ.
Deathleaper is Ind. Char.
Deathleaper can join units.
Deathleaper can only be shot at with snap shots.
Ergo..
Unit he shoots at can only be hit by snap shots?
Maybe?
I don't remember him being an IC, just a character.
Soemthing I remember and I haven't seen mentionned : the tyrant powers : Old adversary is now for the tyrant only , and only close combat! The power that used to give +1 to reserve rolls and outflank a troop unit is now only the outflanking part, and the horror one is a ld malus against fear IIRC.
Well looking at it the other way, if a decked out Prime joined his unit I imagine it would still apply.
 kirsanth wrote:davethepak wrote:The Good
* There are still a lot of things we don't know, and some of these things could make a big impact.
. . .
* Shrikes and flying rippers are prolly still in.
* we may have a few EMP weapons.
. . .
* sounds like the new big bug might actually have AP2,although short range.
. . .
* venomthrope may have shrouded, and can grant it.
* deathleaper might be fun to use, and build some sort of list around.
* Onslaught might open up some good combos.
* some of the leaked warlord traits are good.
* zoeys may have ML2 and brotherhood of psykers.
* Blinding venom, while not useful for wounds (poison 6?) can be used per model, so you might be able to throw in a few blind attacks (only need to hit to force checks) in a swarm of gargs.
* there may be some good combos out there - brood lord horror to pin enemy unit so stealers can charge through cover. etc.
I laughed out loud reading these.
Really.
It really does seem quite miserable that we have so little to look forward too that we have to twist the nerfs, maybes, and irrelevants into postitives.
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
SHUPPET wrote:
Well looking at it the other way, if a decked out Prime joined his unit I imagine it would still apply.
I'm sorry but what? Are you saying you want a prime to join the Deathleaper? Because that wouldn't work either.
181
Post by: gorgon
davethepak wrote:
And the Ugly
* The Possibility of no BRB powers.
* S3 weapons in a lot of places....sounds like designed to kill tau and guard.
* malenthropes are still terrible (but FW has a new bundle for them).
* The relics are incredibly under par from any recent books.
** Was I expecting a biomorph that granted a 3++ and EW? Of course not, that would be....a space marine.
The explanation for this -- and other examples of individual infantry models having EW -- goes back to something I said before. Sometimes you have to look at the game like it's a narrative to get inside the studio's mind.
To the studio, other armies are proper protagonists and antagonists that get to have proper 'heroes' and 'villains'. Meanwhile Tyranids are just an animalistic adversary to be overcome. It's heroic and cinematic to have some level 1 librarian taking down a Trygon or Tervigon with a single swing of his force weapon, so that's acceptable. It's also heroic and cinematic for some SM officer suffer enormous blows from a Carnifex that should have pulverized him and keep fighting, so that's acceptable also. The EW rule is an expression of cinematic heroics/villainry.
It is what it is. I'm not really even griping about it, it's something I've come to accept in their approach to the game. I happen to like the new regen and catalyst for boosting durability, FWIW.
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
A compilation of Jackup's posts from the Tyranid Hive Thread
1-8-14: The Tyranid Hive
http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/44731/6th-codex-unimpressive-first-glance?page=4#ixzz2ppCAPESe=undefined&page=1
Jackedup wrote:So looking at the Codex right now, it seems to be a slightly weaker version of Cruddace's.
Synapse and Shadow in the Warp:
Instinctive behaviour is now hunt, lurk, and feed. Terrible things happen when you roll a 1-3 to check behaviour, from units attacking themselves to actually falling back. You need t roll a 6 on the behaviour check to get the old Rage bonus, for "feed" units. Overall, synapse is now way more important.
Shadow in the Warp gives enemy psykers -3 LD when within range.
The HQ Options:
For starters, I note there's no rule that makes the Tervigon a troop choice. They are HQ, and you pretty much have to surrender a Hive Tyrants to take one. The only real upside is that they produces the same 'Gaunts you use as a troop choice, along with all the upgrades. Sorry, I am blind (see replies below). For every brood of 30 (all 30) Gaunts you can get one as a troop choice.
It's interesting to see Deathleaper as a HQ choice, and at 130 pts only snap shots can be taken at him. Not bad, but he lacks synapse. The Swarmlord is now 285 pts, with little in the way of new features to recommend it. The Tyranid Prime at 125 pts is a bit pricey, since it also chews up a HQ slot, and Old One Eye is a similar waste of a HQ slot.
The Troops:
Termagant broods up to 30 now, with a lot more options. Genestealers remain a bit rubbishy, and seem to need synapse (although they do have Ld 10). Warriors have a bigger range of guns (but note there's still nothing in the whole book with skyfire). Overall, nothing to see here. Move on.
Fast Attack:
The Harpy (135 pts) and Crone (155 pts) are what everyone's looking at I suppose. Harpies haven't changed much, except the screech now gives the enemy -5 Init. There is no more giant spore mine bomb. The Crone is basically a flying flamer, with Str 5 Haywire missiles. I think you'll be taking them, because there's really no anti-air option otherwise.
Raveners seem to have lost rending.
Elite:
Hive Guard cost upped by 5 pts, not many rules changes. They have a Haywire gun they can take now. I am kind of sorry to lose the Ymgarl Genestealers, as I liked the flavour, but gone they are.
The venomthropes are kind of awesome, with their shrouded rule and poisoned 2+ attacks. But will you drop Hive Guard to take them? I dunno...
The Haruspex is built to rip apart infantry mobs, and little else. It has a Str 6 tounge (assault 1), and 3 attacks. Each unsaved wound gives it another attack. And it heals back its bank of 5 wounds for every wound it inflicts, and can also take regen. It's a little bit specialised for my tastes, at 160 pts.
Heavy Support:
Mawlock is the biggest improvement IMHO. Dropped to 140 points, and if it doesn't clear the area the S6 AP2 hit happens AGAIN. It also ignores cover now. Mind you, if it doesn't clear the area on the second try, you get a mishap roll. It also can't burrow on the very first turn like before, and loses the option for Regen.
The Trygon has gone up to 190 points, lost one attack, and...yeah. That's it. Everything else is the same. The Trygon Prime might actually see more use, there being a bigger need for synapse now. But 230pts is kind of extreme just for the synapse, no?
The Exocrine (170 pts) is kind of awesome, with Assault 6, Str 7, AP2 shots. Or it can drop a big blast. Park its butt for a round, and it's +1 BS. The Tyrannofex is dropped to 175 pts....
Well a few things have been fixed about the old Codex. Warriors have flesh hooks as an option, which are assault 'nades. The Lashwhip adds +3 init instead of dropping things' init to 1, which I think is better.
The Carnifex is down to 120 pts, and its Hammer of Wrath does D3 attacks which is nice.
Double ST just gives one more attack. No re-rolls...
Ripper Swarm:
39 pts for 3 bases, +13 pts per base
WS 2 BS 2 S 3 T 3 W 3 I 2 A 4 Ld 5 Sv 6+
May take Spinefists, toxin sacs, adrenal glands, and deep strike.
Genestealers come with Rending claws, but yu can buy ST for 4 pts per model
Hormagaunts are Fleet, Move Through cover, and have bounding leap (run +3 inches)
Warriors are 30 points per model (I don't have the old book on me to refer)
Warrior stats are:
WS 5 BS 3 S 4 T 4 W 3 I 4 A 3 Ld 10 Sv 4+
Yes, there are Haywire weapons. The flying Crone has Haywire missles, and the Hive Guard can buy a Haywire "shock cannon". Also, the electroshock Thorax swarm is now Haywire.
The Lictor's Pheromone trail says any model can drop within 6 inches of it when deep striking without scattering (again, don't have the old book here to compare, sorry)...
One pair of talons gives you the amazing standard attack as stated on the profile, at AP 6.
Heavy Venom = 36', Str 9 AP 4, Assault 1 Blast
Venom = 36', Str 6 AP 4, Assault 1 Blast
Zoanthropes have Warp Blast psyker power. Takes 2 charges, and is 24' Str 5 AP 3, Assault 1 Blast, OR 18', Str 10, AP 2, Assault 1 Lance...
The Lictor doesn't scatter when deep striking. The flesh hooks have lost rending. Overall it uh...sucks I think. But it IS 50 points!...
Further clarification: The Lictor has rending claws (one set), and one set of ST. It has flesh hooks (assault 2, user Str), stealth and Hit and run, phermone trail, infiltrate, and move through cover. Stats are: WS 6 BS 3 S 6 T 4 W 3 I 6 A 3 Ld 10 Sv 5+...
Deathspitter 18', Str 5, Ap 5, Assault 3
Zoanthropes are a psychic brotherhood (level 2), that always know warp blast. So they generate one more.
Speaking of which I just noticed: The Tervigon is now 195 points, and is mastery level 1. So its psyker powers got nerfed a bit I think.
The new mechanic in the book is that instinctive behaviour is now lurk, feed, and hunt. Basically lurk means camping there, feed is assault, and hunt is shooting. If you fail leadership and they go on instinct, something bad happens on a 1-3 (lurkers fall back, shooters go to ground, feeders attack one another). On a 4-5 its something like can only assault, can only shoot, etc. On a 6 they gain a small bonus (feeders get rage, lurkers get stealth, shooters get preferred enemy.
The Prime still boosts the warriors as always...
The Trygon tunnel is the same as before (mark it, others come out from it, blah blah).
Tyranid melee weapons come as pairs. Each pair is a single melee weapon. A tyranid mist fight with TWO pairs of ANY melee weapon to gain a bonus attack for using two weapons. A Ravener with two pairs of ST gains a bonus attack, or a Stealer with rending claws and a pair of ST does as well.
Crushing claws gives + 1 Str, AP 2, Armourbane, and Unwieldy
Shrikes are still around, with 5+ save...
Some other points (again, sorry this is in bits and pieces, I am sneaking glances):
No Doom of Malantai, No Parasite. No mycetic spore. I do see the Red Terror is back (if he hits 4 times, he swallows a guy).
Warlord Traits:
1 - Nature's Bane - At the beginning of each movement phase, select one jungle within 12' of the warlord. It becomes carnivorous for the game.
2 - Heightened Senses - Warlord and Nids within 12' have Night Vision.
3- Synaptic Linchpin - Warlord has 18' synapse
4 - Mind Eater - 2 VP for independents slain by warlord in a challenge.
5 - Digestive Denial - After deployment, pick one piece of terrain on opponent's side that was NOT paid for. Cover save worsens by one. (4+ becomes 5+, etc.)
6 - Adaptive Biology - Warlord gains FNP (5+) on next movement phase after it suffers a wound. (For rest of game)...
Back again. Okay, some quick answers:
Zoanthrope Issue - A Zoanthrope brood follows all the rules for Brother hood pf Psykers except that the unit has a Mastery level of 2. In addition, if a brookd of Zoantrhopes uses the Warp Blast power, the number of shots fired is equal to the number of zoanthropes in that brood. (eg 3 Zoanthropes would make the burst and lance profiles assault 3)
Doom is gone, parasite is gone, mycetic spore is gone. Ymgarl stealers are gone, but the "ymgarl factor", of giving a special boost each assault round (+1 Str, +1 atk, Improve armour save by 1), can be purchased as a bio-artefact for 40 points.
Spore mines and shrikes are still around, and Red Terror is back. Gargoyles still have blinding venom, can buy toxin sacs and adrenal glands.
I don't see options to improve the Hive Tyrant's carapace to a 2+ save anymore, or any other HQ's for that matter. Looks like you'll need the Ymgarl Factor.
Tyrannofex rupture cannon is 30 points, 48' range, S 10, AP4, Assault 2
The tail morphs are:
Bone Mace, S 8, AP - , Unwieldy
Prehensile Pincer, S 6, AP 5
Thresher Scythe, S 4, AP 4, Rending
Toxinspike, S 1, AP 6, Poisoned 2+
A tail attack allows a single added attack, resolved separately from a model's other close combat attacks. It doesn't benefit from other melee weapons, biomorphs, etc.
Hive Tyrant stat line:
165 pts, WS 8, BS 4, S 6, T 6, W 4, I 5, A 4, Ld 10, Sv 3+ ( Interesting: You now have to pay 20 points for lash / whip, or it comes with two sets of ST)
FOC as follows:
HQ - Hive Tyrant, Swarmlord, ld One Eye, Tervigon, Tyranid Prime, Deathleaper
Troops - Warrior, Genestealers, Termagants, Hormagaunts, Ripper Swarm
Elites - Hive Guard, Lictor, Zoanthrope, Venomthrope, Haruspex, Pyrovore (Ha ha! Pyrovore "Elite"!)
Fast Attack - Shrikes, Raveners, Red Terror (as part of ONE Ravener brood), Sky Slasher, Gargoyle, Harpy, Hive Crone, Spore Mine Cluster (how mines are "fast" attack is beyond me)
Heavy Support - Carnifex, Biovore, Trygon and Prime, Mawlc, Exocrine, Tyrannofex
Powers of the Hive Mind:
1. Catalyst - 1 charge
Blessing that targets psyker's unit and up to one other friendly within 12'. Targets gain FNP.
2. The Horror - 1 charge
Malediction targeting single enemy unit within 24'. Target takes a pinning test at -2 Ld
3. Onslaught - 1 charge
Blessing that targets a single friendly unit within 24'. Unit can both run and shoot in the shooting phase.
4. Paroxysm - 1 charge
Malediction targeting single enemy unit within 24'. Target's WS and BS reduced by D3 (roll once for both)
5. Psychic Scream - 1 charge
Nova power, 6'. For each target unit, roll 2D6+ 2 and subtract Ld. Unit suffers wounds equal to result, no armour or cover saves.
6. Warp Blast - 2 charges
Witchfire power, either burst or lance. This is the standard Zoanthrope Warp Blast.
5859
Post by: Ravenous D
SHUPPET wrote:
kirsanth wrote:davethepak wrote:The Good
* There are still a lot of things we don't know, and some of these things could make a big impact.
. . .
* Shrikes and flying rippers are prolly still in.
* we may have a few EMP weapons.
. . .
* sounds like the new big bug might actually have AP2,although short range.
. . .
* venomthrope may have shrouded, and can grant it.
* deathleaper might be fun to use, and build some sort of list around.
* Onslaught might open up some good combos.
* some of the leaked warlord traits are good.
* zoeys may have ML2 and brotherhood of psykers.
* Blinding venom, while not useful for wounds (poison 6?) can be used per model, so you might be able to throw in a few blind attacks (only need to hit to force checks) in a swarm of gargs.
* there may be some good combos out there - brood lord horror to pin enemy unit so stealers can charge through cover. etc.
I laughed out loud reading these.
Really.
It really does seem quite miserable that we have so little to look forward too that we have to twist the nerfs, maybes, and irrelevants into postitives.
That and I looked at that list and thought "Do the devs know about Tau and Eldar or is this a joke?"
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
 wyomingfox wrote:A compilation of Jackup's posts from the Tyranid Hive Thread
1-8-14: The Tyranid Hive
http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/44731/6th-codex-unimpressive-first-glance?page=4#ixzz2ppCAPESe=undefined&page=1
Jackedup wrote:So looking at the Codex right now, it seems to be a slightly weaker version of Cruddace's.
Synapse and Shadow in the Warp:
Instinctive behaviour is now hunt, lurk, and feed. Terrible things happen when you roll a 1-3 to check behaviour, from units attacking themselves to actually falling back. You need t roll a 6 on the behaviour check to get the old Rage bonus, for "feed" units. Overall, synapse is now way more important.
Shadow in the Warp gives enemy psykers -3 LD when within range.
The HQ Options:
For starters, I note there's no rule that makes the Tervigon a troop choice. They are HQ, and you pretty much have to surrender a Hive Tyrants to take one. The only real upside is that they produces the same 'Gaunts you use as a troop choice, along with all the upgrades. Sorry, I am blind (see replies below). For every brood of 30 (all 30) Gaunts you can get one as a troop choice.
It's interesting to see Deathleaper as a HQ choice, and at 130 pts only snap shots can be taken at him. Not bad, but he lacks synapse. The Swarmlord is now 285 pts, with little in the way of new features to recommend it. The Tyranid Prime at 125 pts is a bit pricey, since it also chews up a HQ slot, and Old One Eye is a similar waste of a HQ slot.
The Troops:
Termagant broods up to 30 now, with a lot more options. Genestealers remain a bit rubbishy, and seem to need synapse (although they do have Ld 10). Warriors have a bigger range of guns (but note there's still nothing in the whole book with skyfire). Overall, nothing to see here. Move on.
Fast Attack:
The Harpy (135 pts) and Crone (155 pts) are what everyone's looking at I suppose. Harpies haven't changed much, except the screech now gives the enemy -5 Init. There is no more giant spore mine bomb. The Crone is basically a flying flamer, with Str 5 Haywire missiles. I think you'll be taking them, because there's really no anti-air option otherwise.
Raveners seem to have lost rending.
Elite:
Hive Guard cost upped by 5 pts, not many rules changes. They have a Haywire gun they can take now. I am kind of sorry to lose the Ymgarl Genestealers, as I liked the flavour, but gone they are.
The venomthropes are kind of awesome, with their shrouded rule and poisoned 2+ attacks. But will you drop Hive Guard to take them? I dunno...
The Haruspex is built to rip apart infantry mobs, and little else. It has a Str 6 tounge (assault 1), and 3 attacks. Each unsaved wound gives it another attack. And it heals back its bank of 5 wounds for every wound it inflicts, and can also take regen. It's a little bit specialised for my tastes, at 160 pts.
Heavy Support:
Mawlock is the biggest improvement IMHO. Dropped to 140 points, and if it doesn't clear the area the S6 AP2 hit happens AGAIN. It also ignores cover now. Mind you, if it doesn't clear the area on the second try, you get a mishap roll. It also can't burrow on the very first turn like before, and loses the option for Regen.
The Trygon has gone up to 190 points, lost one attack, and...yeah. That's it. Everything else is the same. The Trygon Prime might actually see more use, there being a bigger need for synapse now. But 230pts is kind of extreme just for the synapse, no?
The Exocrine (170 pts) is kind of awesome, with Assault 6, Str 7, AP2 shots. Or it can drop a big blast. Park its butt for a round, and it's +1 BS. The Tyrannofex is dropped to 175 pts....
Well a few things have been fixed about the old Codex. Warriors have flesh hooks as an option, which are assault 'nades. The Lashwhip adds +3 init instead of dropping things' init to 1, which I think is better.
The Carnifex is down to 120 pts, and its Hammer of Wrath does D3 attacks which is nice.
Double ST just gives one more attack. No re-rolls...
Ripper Swarm:
39 pts for 3 bases, +13 pts per base
WS 2 BS 2 S 3 T 3 W 3 I 2 A 4 Ld 5 Sv 6+
May take Spinefists, toxin sacs, adrenal glands, and deep strike.
Genestealers come with Rending claws, but yu can buy ST for 4 pts per model
Hormagaunts are Fleet, Move Through cover, and have bounding leap (run +3 inches)
Warriors are 30 points per model (I don't have the old book on me to refer)
Warrior stats are:
WS 5 BS 3 S 4 T 4 W 3 I 4 A 3 Ld 10 Sv 4+
Yes, there are Haywire weapons. The flying Crone has Haywire missles, and the Hive Guard can buy a Haywire "shock cannon". Also, the electroshock Thorax swarm is now Haywire.
The Lictor's Pheromone trail says any model can drop within 6 inches of it when deep striking without scattering (again, don't have the old book here to compare, sorry)...
One pair of talons gives you the amazing standard attack as stated on the profile, at AP 6.
Heavy Venom = 36', Str 9 AP 4, Assault 1 Blast
Venom = 36', Str 6 AP 4, Assault 1 Blast
Zoanthropes have Warp Blast psyker power. Takes 2 charges, and is 24' Str 5 AP 3, Assault 1 Blast, OR 18', Str 10, AP 2, Assault 1 Lance...
The Lictor doesn't scatter when deep striking. The flesh hooks have lost rending. Overall it uh...sucks I think. But it IS 50 points!...
Further clarification: The Lictor has rending claws (one set), and one set of ST. It has flesh hooks (assault 2, user Str), stealth and Hit and run, phermone trail, infiltrate, and move through cover. Stats are: WS 6 BS 3 S 6 T 4 W 3 I 6 A 3 Ld 10 Sv 5+...
Deathspitter 18', Str 5, Ap 5, Assault 3
Zoanthropes are a psychic brotherhood (level 2), that always know warp blast. So they generate one more.
Speaking of which I just noticed: The Tervigon is now 195 points, and is mastery level 1. So its psyker powers got nerfed a bit I think.
The new mechanic in the book is that instinctive behaviour is now lurk, feed, and hunt. Basically lurk means camping there, feed is assault, and hunt is shooting. If you fail leadership and they go on instinct, something bad happens on a 1-3 (lurkers fall back, shooters go to ground, feeders attack one another). On a 4-5 its something like can only assault, can only shoot, etc. On a 6 they gain a small bonus (feeders get rage, lurkers get stealth, shooters get preferred enemy.
The Prime still boosts the warriors as always...
The Trygon tunnel is the same as before (mark it, others come out from it, blah blah).
Tyranid melee weapons come as pairs. Each pair is a single melee weapon. A tyranid mist fight with TWO pairs of ANY melee weapon to gain a bonus attack for using two weapons. A Ravener with two pairs of ST gains a bonus attack, or a Stealer with rending claws and a pair of ST does as well.
Crushing claws gives + 1 Str, AP 2, Armourbane, and Unwieldy
Shrikes are still around, with 5+ save...
Some other points (again, sorry this is in bits and pieces, I am sneaking glances):
No Doom of Malantai, No Parasite. No mycetic spore. I do see the Red Terror is back (if he hits 4 times, he swallows a guy).
Warlord Traits:
1 - Nature's Bane - At the beginning of each movement phase, select one jungle within 12' of the warlord. It becomes carnivorous for the game.
2 - Heightened Senses - Warlord and Nids within 12' have Night Vision.
3- Synaptic Linchpin - Warlord has 18' synapse
4 - Mind Eater - 2 VP for independents slain by warlord in a challenge.
5 - Digestive Denial - After deployment, pick one piece of terrain on opponent's side that was NOT paid for. Cover save worsens by one. (4+ becomes 5+, etc.)
6 - Adaptive Biology - Warlord gains FNP (5+) on next movement phase after it suffers a wound. (For rest of game)...
Just a thing The trygon actually got cheaper, and lost its re-rolls to hit unlike what is stated there
edit: Interestingly enough, the warrior prime boost shrikes too, which is odd because I couldn't find any ways to give it wings ....
26170
Post by: davethepak
gorgon wrote:davethepak wrote:
And the Ugly
* The Possibility of no BRB powers.
* S3 weapons in a lot of places....sounds like designed to kill tau and guard.
* malenthropes are still terrible (but FW has a new bundle for them).
* The relics are incredibly under par from any recent books.
** Was I expecting a biomorph that granted a 3++ and EW? Of course not, that would be....a space marine.
The explanation for this -- and other examples of individual infantry models having EW -- goes back to something I said before. Sometimes you have to look at the game like it's a narrative to get inside the studio's mind.
To the studio, other armies are proper protagonists and antagonists that get to have proper 'heroes' and 'villains'. Meanwhile Tyranids are just an animalistic adversary to be overcome. It's heroic and cinematic to have some level 1 librarian taking down a Trygon or Tervigon with a single swing of his force weapon, so that's acceptable. It's also heroic and cinematic for some SM officer suffer enormous blows from a Carnifex that should have pulverized him and keep fighting, so that's acceptable also. The EW rule is an expression of cinematic heroics/villainry.
It is what it is. I'm not really even griping about it, it's something I've come to accept in their approach to the game. I happen to like the new regen and catalyst for boosting durability, FWIW.
Well said, and an exceptionally valid point.
However, good writers can justify ANYTHING. There are a bazillions fluffy ways to have a biomorph that grants ew.
If swarmy or tyrants don't have EW, they are toast against a lot of of the other top tier CC characters in the game.
I don't want ot have to take on Dragio by swarming him with gants.....I want him to go toe to toe in a heroic battle with a gigantic terrifying alien beast.
Regardless, the nid relics do not even come close the the bar set by recent books.
77800
Post by: DO IT TO IT
The Crone has Fire Warrior armor and can be grounded? I wish I hadn't ordered one...
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
DO IT TO IT wrote:The Crone has Fire Warrior armor and can be grounded? I wish I hadn't ordered one...
Armor save and grounding aside, i'm a little more sad that they are stuck to the standard movement of 12-24" of FMC's. I guess being able to deploy them on the table helps, because they'll be shooting turn one, but it's still a dangerous prospect to get close enough to vector strike before the enemy vendettas (or even tau razorsharks) blow you out of the sky. Boo hiss boo.
I think with today's data dumps (and i'm sure there are more to come) i can at least start test rolling out a few scenarios and small-type battles and see how these changes effect the tabletop. I'll have the codex by friday and can dig deeper then, but for now i'm pretty satisfied.
Thanks everyone who chimed in with leaks and stats!
181
Post by: gorgon
davethepak wrote:Regardless, the nid relics do not even come close the the bar set by recent books.
Oh, I certainly can't disagree there.
The cinematic/narrative mindset also probably explains the apparent lack of a fix for Trygon tunnels. They don't really want them to be effective. They're there because IF someone wanted to try it and IF it works, wouldn't that be cool? Again, it is what it is.
Honestly, right now this isn't looking like too expensive of a release for me. I'll probably pick up a couple of the new big bugs at some point, but thanks to my collection I should be able to try out some Nidzilla and other builds without major investment or work. It's mostly going to be little stuff like some rebasing (already under way), weapon swaps, etc. The magnetized MC models definitely help.
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Post by: Skullhammer
Agreed just a few weapon swaps on the mc's and I'm good to go.
Worked up my list 4100pts and with new values I'm saving around 900 pts due to drop in costs, this could be interesting times.
One thing I'd like to know , is shadow convayed with synapse, as this could make for an interesting boost.
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Post by: Anpu42
To me it looks like we are going to be getting alot of Starship Toopers like senarios, at least with the Swarm Armies.
Hundreds of bug charging across the field Fearlessly as I throw either buckes of bolter shot at them [or flashlights] hoping that I kill enough before they get into Melee. Then me Praying that the bug roll bad and me good rolling good. Then the Big Bugs showing up to finish me off.
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Post by: ductvader
davethepak wrote:Regardless, the nid relics do not even come close the the bar set by recent books.
Would you want to be responsible for giving something like the Shield Eternal or the Mantle of the Laughing God to a Hive Tyrant?
People need to consider the normal damage output and survivability of what these relics are going on, before making such statements. A Tyrant, or even a prime is much more than some chapter master or autarch.
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Post by: airmang
 Anpu42 wrote:To me it looks like we are going to be getting alot of Starship Toopers like senarios, at least with the Swarm Armies.
Hundreds of bug charging across the field Fearlessly as I throw either buckes of bolter shot at them [or flashlights] hoping that I kill enough before they get into Melee. Then me Praying that the bug roll bad and me good rolling good. Then the Big Bugs showing up to finish me off.
Now THAT's CINEMATIC!! 
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Oh has the point cost for the bio-artifacts been posted?
PE-granting claws = 15, the poisoned gun 25 and others are about 40. That's too much for the ymgarl one I feel ....
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Post by: kirsanth
Just going to repeat this for sake of hilarity.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Anpu42 wrote:To me it looks like we are going to be getting alot of Starship Toopers like senarios, at least with the Swarm Armies.
Hundreds of bug charging across the field Fearlessly as I throw either buckes of bolter shot at them [or flashlights] hoping that I kill enough before they get into Melee. Then me Praying that the bug roll bad and me good rolling good. Then the Big Bugs showing up to finish me off.
God I hope that works out that way, once in a while... because I just spent $400USD starting 'Nid with precisely that imagine in mind.
My local playerbase is very much not meta though. My wife plays mass Orks, another friend plays Chaos just for the love of it, and without their sole "great" options. Meanwhile, at the club we have two other LONG time 'Nid players, a few C: SM/Space Wolves, and that is about it. Only one player shows up trying to build flavor-of-the-month abuse lists (guy went from owning zero C: SM bikes to an army of them in a weekend when he decided that would be the most abusive list he could run). As such, i'm sure many "fun" games will be had... and thank God for it, because if I was playing with a hope of serious, high-level competitiveness right now, i'd be crapping the bed.
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Post by: ductvader
B0B MaRlEy wrote:Oh has the point cost for the bio-artifacts been posted?
PE-granting claws = 15, the poisoned gun 25 and others are about 40. That's too much for the ymgarl one I feel ....
Did we reach a conclusion about Shadow and Synapse range always being equivalent?
Ymgarl one? I feel that one is made for a prime and well costed for him.
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
ductvader wrote: B0B MaRlEy wrote:Oh has the point cost for the bio-artifacts been posted?
PE-granting claws = 15, the poisoned gun 25 and others are about 40. That's too much for the ymgarl one I feel ....
Did we reach a conclusion about Shadow and Synapse range always being equivalent?
Ymgarl one? I feel that one is made for a prime and well costed for him.
The prime went up a fair bit (45 points!)
I don't remember any of the synapse-increasing items/traits actually saying that the shadow in the warp range increases too. Nor was it specified in the synapse or SitW special rule
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Post by: skarsol
B0B MaRlEy wrote:Oh has the point cost for the bio-artifacts been posted?
PE-granting claws = 15, the poisoned gun 25 and others are about 40. That's too much for the ymgarl one I feel ....
The claws are 10. Reaper is 45.
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Post by: Anpu42
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Anpu42 wrote:To me it looks like we are going to be getting alot of Starship Toopers like senarios, at least with the Swarm Armies.
Hundreds of bug charging across the field Fearlessly as I throw either buckes of bolter shot at them [or flashlights] hoping that I kill enough before they get into Melee. Then me Praying that the bug roll bad and me good rolling good. Then the Big Bugs showing up to finish me off.
God I hope that works out that way, once in a while... because I just spent $400USD starting 'Nid with precisely that imagine in mind.
My local playerbase is very much not meta though. My wife plays mass Orks, another friend plays Chaos just for the love of it, and without their sole "great" options. Meanwhile, at the club we have two other LONG time 'Nid players, a few C: SM/Space Wolves, and that is about it. Only one player shows up trying to build flavor-of-the-month abuse lists (guy went from owning zero C: SM bikes to an army of them in a weekend when he decided that would be the most abusive list he could run). As such, i'm sure many "fun" games will be had... and thank God for it, because if I was playing with a hope of serious, high-level competitiveness right now, i'd be crapping the bed.
Well it has been my experiance in 6th so far. I see no reason why it will not change much. It only takes 2-3 Genestealers to wreck a Tactical Squad.
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Post by: skarsol
ductvader wrote:
Did we reach a conclusion about Shadow and Synapse range always being equivalent?
Shadow specifically says 12" and nothing anywhere that I can see modifies it or associates it with Synapse.
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Post by: Kirasu
ductvader wrote:davethepak wrote:Regardless, the nid relics do not even come close the the bar set by recent books.
Would you want to be responsible for giving something like the Shield Eternal or the Mantle of the Laughing God to a Hive Tyrant?
People need to consider the normal damage output and survivability of what these relics are going on, before making such statements. A Tyrant, or even a prime is much more than some chapter master or autarch.
Not true at all..Just because the hive tyrant is a MC doesn't mean it's more survivable or has more damage output. If you take Iron hands you got a guy with a 2+/3++, S8, T5, W4, A4 who also has EW, IWND and probably FNP. What does the tyrant have that is MORE survivable? 1 pt of toughness? oooh scary!
Come on, these artifacts are a joke and toughness means little when you got plasma, grav and lascannons shooting you.
This book looks to be a fairly significant downgrade which is pretty amazing considering the quality of the last book
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Post by: ductvader
B0B MaRlEy wrote: ductvader wrote: B0B MaRlEy wrote:Oh has the point cost for the bio-artifacts been posted?
PE-granting claws = 15, the poisoned gun 25 and others are about 40. That's too much for the ymgarl one I feel ....
Did we reach a conclusion about Shadow and Synapse range always being equivalent?
Ymgarl one? I feel that one is made for a prime and well costed for him.
The prime went up a fair bit (45 points!)
I took that into account...this guy is mean, especially since you can throw him in the middle of just about any unit...termagants, warriors, stealers, carnifexes, tyrants.
The prime has always been a favorite and a reliable one at that for getting into combat with whatever you need to kill. Now give him rending claws and regeneration, he becomes the big nasty. Much more reliable than a superflyrant.
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Post by: Kirasu
Except that he basically lost half of his attacks due to lack of rerolls..
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Post by: ductvader
Kirasu wrote:Except that he basically lost half of his attacks due to lack of rerolls..
Half is exaggerating quite a bit, if anything, he loses something like 1.1 hits.
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Post by: kirsanth
ductvader wrote: Kirasu wrote:Except that he basically lost half of his attacks due to lack of rerolls..
Half is exaggerating quite a bit, if anything, he loses something like 1.1 hits.
Nice.
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Post by: Retrogamer0001
Just saw this latest collection on the GW website for the bargain price of $1,859.
1
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
'' Well, to be fair...that is a lot of monsters. Still, who would fork out nearly 2k in one go? 0_o Hmm hold on, does that even add up to 2k? Something doesn't look right.
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Post by: Shingen
Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.
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Post by: Rotary
Hmm they put in the red terror, so... maybe new rules for it?
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Post by: ductvader
CthuluIsSpy wrote:''
Well, to be fair...that is a lot of monsters.
Still, who would fork out nearly 2k in one go? 0_o
Hmm hold on, does that even add up to 2k? Something doesn't look right.
Last week I just witnessed someone order and pay for the Astartes Ultra. ($11,500.00) Automatically Appended Next Post:  Rotary wrote:Hmm they put in the red terror, so... maybe new rules for it?
Rumor is...yes. In all the rules but not in name.
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Post by: skarsol
Shingen wrote:Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.
They give Shrouded to friendly Models (so Units) within 6".
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Rotary wrote:Hmm they put in the red terror, so... maybe new rules for it?
Tyranid prime stats, If at least 4 attacks hit it has a chance to swallow a bulky or smaller model . That model only gets an invulnerable save or gets removed from play.
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Post by: ductvader
skarsol wrote:Shingen wrote:Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.
They give Shrouded to friendly Models (so Units) within 6".
Fantastic! I built mine from chaos spawn. All tentacles and hormagaunt heads...I don't like the current r@pethrope.
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Shingen wrote:Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.
Watch out though, I think the snap-shots only was a special rule on the Deathleaper, not the "regular" lictors. Will check
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Post by: Shingen
Still it's going to help massively.
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Post by: Carnage43
ductvader wrote:davethepak wrote:Regardless, the nid relics do not even come close the the bar set by recent books.
Would you want to be responsible for giving something like the Shield Eternal or the Mantle of the Laughing God to a Hive Tyrant?
People need to consider the normal damage output and survivability of what these relics are going on, before making such statements. A Tyrant, or even a prime is much more than some chapter master or autarch.
You don't....math...do you?
T5 W4 2+ Sv, 3++ EW chapter master, with lets say a thunder hammer (because the double relic thing still isn't hammered out)
T6 W4 3+ SV, No++ No EW Tyrant,
Against bolters they are roughly equally survivable, with the extra toughness balancing the improved save of the chapter master.
Against AP3, the chapter master wins, SIX TIMES OVER
Against AP2 or better, the chapter master wins, THREE TIMES OVER
Against poison attacks, the chapter master wins, TWICE OVER
The chapter master is an independent character, so can hide in units whereas the tyrant can only hide in tyrant guard (which have a poor wound:stayingpower:cost ratio compared to marine stuff)
In melee, the chapter master wins, since his improved survivabilty will balance off swinging last, and his higher strength (8, vs the tyrant's 6) means he will be killing more stuff typically.
Buff wise, the tyrant will win out, since ML2 with tyranid powers is probably slightly better than making bikes scoring and a chapter tactic.
Honestly, I don't think a 3++ invul EW relic would really have been out of line in 6th edition on a hive tyrant. Monstrous creature survivabiltiy is ABYSMAL.
kirsanth wrote:Just going to repeat this for sake of hilarity.
Yup
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Post by: Kroothawk
Had a first short look at the Codex.
Doom, Spores, Parasite and even Ymgarl Genestealers are gone. Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.
Worst Unitcide since WItch Hunters.
BRB powers are gone, seems you now have to roll for psychic powers instead of buying them.
Still looking for anything that got better, but haven't found it yet. Except of the "buy more models" of course.
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Post by: frankencowx
So Genestealers need to be within synapse range now? And there hasn't been much on tyrant guard, have they changed at all??
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
frankencowx wrote:So Genestealers need to be within synapse range now? And there hasn't been much on tyrant guard, have they changed at all??
They don't have IB so no. Tyrant guards are mostly unchanged, except the ability to take crushing claws ,for AP2 attacks
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Post by: kirsanth
No IB means no roll. Brood telepathy did nothing.
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Post by: Imposter101
 Kroothawk wrote:Had a first short look at the Codex.
Doom, Spores, Parasite and even Ymgarl Genestealers are gone. Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.
Worst Unitcide since WItch Hunters.
BRB powers are gone, seems you now have to roll for psychic powers instead of buying them.
Still looking for anything that got better, but haven't found it yet. Except of the "buy more models" of course.
thisisgreatnews.jpg
All of this seems to be pretty gak. Cruddace might not be able to write for gak, but the idea's introduced were all exciting and cool, and with some work could have really worked well (some of which did!), but no, the only option is to completely remove them in the hope that people will indeed buy more models. The curse of random psychic powers (Warhammer Fantasy Battles 40,000 edition) is also placed unto the Tyranids, gracing them with the curse of being unable to tell if your gonna get the useful, well written power or the garbage one shoved in their due to laziness.
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Post by: skarsol
Rotary wrote:Hmm they put in the red terror, so... maybe new rules for it?
It's an 85 point upgrade to a singe Ravener squad. +1 WS, S, T, A, Sv. +2 LD. Pincer Tail attack and Swallow Whole special rule.
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Post by: Plumbumbarum
This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates. I like those as a way to add stuff down the road but as kind of 1st day DLC, this is a new level of offensive. Truth be told, the more blatant cash grabs they become, the more pdfs will be downloaded instead of bought.
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Post by: Xyptc
Any news on the fluff in this book?
It certainly looks like we have escaped a Newcron style "there are hundreds of Hive Minds" situation at least.
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Post by: buddha
(sigh) my tyranids have sat on my shelf since the start of 5th edition. I guess there they shall remain for another codex cycle. Sadly, I can't claim the sky is falling since I think it fell already.
(Really though, 4+ save on harpy/crone!? Its not like the quad gun is the most prevalent skyfire weapon in the game or anything; geeze that is boneheaded)
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Post by: pretre
Plumbumbarum wrote:This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates
"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard
Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.
Give it a week.
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Post by: skarsol
B0B MaRlEy wrote:Shingen wrote:Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.
Watch out though, I think the snap-shots only was a special rule on the Deathleaper, not the "regular" lictors. Will check
It's only on Deathleaper, and he can't join squads.
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Post by: gorgon
Shingen wrote:Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.
Given that Lictors tend to operate forward while Venomthropes will be moving out of your deployment zone, this will be a hard combo to pull off, methinks.
Lictors getting Infiltrate, however, finally makes their Pheromone Trails more useful. And going to ground in area terrain or ruins will get you your 2+ cover save.
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Post by: ductvader
 buddha wrote:(sigh) my tyranids have sat on my shelf since the start of 5th edition. I guess there they shall remain for another codex cycle. Sadly, I can't claim the sky is falling since I think it fell already.
(Really though, 4+ save on harpy/crone!? Its not like the quad gun is the most prevalent skyfire weapon in the game or anything; geeze that is boneheaded)
Why's this? Because there's a bunch of complainers out there, many (but not all) of which know nothing of tyranid synergy and strengths.
I'd hold your judgement. Codex wide 20% points reductions almost guarantee competetiveness by itself. Not to mention many of the fun new toys we're already hearing about and the many toys we've yet to see for ourselves.
I currently have no trouble beating any army but Tau, and with 120% more gants I have no doubts about our strength.
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Post by: Roci
Plumbumbarum wrote:This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates. I like those as a way to add stuff down the road but as kind of 1st day DLC, this is a new level of offensive. Truth be told, the more blatant cash grabs they become, the more pdfs will be downloaded instead of bought.
Keep the codex and return anything else you ordered. I'm fairly certain that wouldn't be to much of an issue, that is what I am doing. I will wait a few months and see what else pops up. I only ever really bought enough to field the dbl flyrant build anyway, so it isn't all that bad really.
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Post by: ductvader
pretre wrote:Plumbumbarum wrote:This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates
"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard
Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.
Give it a week.
^+1
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Post by: gorgon
pretre wrote:Plumbumbarum wrote:This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates
"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard
Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.
Give it a week.
The mood around here after the 4th edition Tyranid codex hit was much the same, and for more than a week. Of course, that book WAS flawed. But most players got over the flaws after they realized how strong Nidzilla was.
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Post by: Bloodhorror
GG games workshop...
GG...
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Post by: Plumbumbarum
pretre wrote:Plumbumbarum wrote:This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates
"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard
Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.
Give it a week.
I hear you but just mycetic spores removal is bad and I see nothing to make up for this. I mean Tyranids are supposed to be outworldy smart but hardly can do anything more than walking the board getting shot? They will loose much of the ingame scare factor (and that is really cinematic, not some rule to force circle fights every 2 turns) if you can't throw zoanthropes or carnifexes around, not to mention Doom which was awesome as a means to see pale faces when you were throwing the scatter dice.
I can forgive overpriced units, I can't forgive removing tactical options. I'll wait ofc but mostly what I'm hoping for now is good art in the book.
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Post by: AesSedai
Reading these leaks makes me want to laugh. Looks like the new monsters are lame--why are people saying that its a "buy more kits" philosophy in action? I was pumped to buy 2 crones and 2 haruspex kits; now I'm almost certainly not.
The codex got worse. Same problems with more mediocre units. If an army is a tool box, it seems we have 15 different wrenches but we need a screwdriver.
I'm looking forward to a couple things. One, the tactical challenge of building a good list with new units. Two, vanguard dataslate. Overall, a disappointing day for nid players and 40k enthusiasts who value varied playing environments. Also, WHAHAaaa! The sky is falling!! Now all you people who cite the eldar dex yadda yadda can write this post off.
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Post by: ductvader
Plumbumbarum wrote: pretre wrote:Plumbumbarum wrote:This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates
"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard
Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.
Give it a week.
I hear you but just mycetic spores removal is bad and I see nothing to make up for this. I mean Tyranids are supposed to be outworldy smart but hardly can do anything more than walking the board getting shot? They will loose much of the ingame scare factor (and that is really cinematic, not some rule to force circle fights every 2 turns) if you can't throw zoanthropes or carnifexes around, not to mention Doom which was awesome as a means to see pale faces when you were throwing the scatter dice.
I can forgive overpriced units, I can't forgive removing tactical options. I'll wait ofc but mostly what I'm hoping for now is good art in the book.
Some things are necessary for game balance. Look at GKs, no pods there either...but both still have many options for DSing...Grey Knights and Tyranids play very similarly in many ways actually...aaaaaaand...getting off point.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 brassangel wrote:This is how it goes with every codex. People take a rumor, make it seem awful, and then embellish the heck out of that slant.
Except people aren't embellishing rumours here. They're discussing actual pages from the Codex.
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Post by: gorgon
Plumbumbarum wrote: pretre wrote:Plumbumbarum wrote:This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates
"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard
Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.
Give it a week.
I hear you but just mycetic spores removal is bad and I see nothing to make up for this. I mean Tyranids are supposed to be outworldy smart but hardly can do anything more than walking the board getting shot? They will loose much of the ingame scare factor (and that is really cinematic, not some rule to force circle fights every 2 turns) if you can't throw zoanthropes or carnifexes around, not to mention Doom which was awesome as a means to see pale faces when you were throwing the scatter dice.
I can forgive overpriced units, I can't forgive removing tactical options. I'll wait ofc but mostly what I'm hoping for now is good art in the book.
Early reports do suggest that Tyranids are returning more to their unidirectional, cross-the-table dynamic.
However, adrenal glands will speed up that process, and all the points cuts will mean more numbers. I'll have to get a look at the codex first, but right now one of the things I want to try is a good old-fashioned MC rush supported by Hormagaunts, Raveners, etc.
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Post by: skarsol
A Prime attached to Deathleaper looks like it would be a pretty nasty unit to have show up in your backyard.
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Post by: Shingen
Shrike, Ravener, Gargoyle rush is a good. I already play like that so it's perfect for me.
Swarmy and guard supporting and then a horde of horms, venoms and maybe a haruspex.
Hopefully I can get that in 1850!
Never been happier!!!
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Post by: ductvader
I'm definitely running:
Prime
CC Flyrant
Hive Guard
Lictors
Venoms
Tervigon
Gants
Gaunts
Stealers
Warriors
Harpy
Crone
Carnifexes
Exocrine if HEAVY otherwise Tyranno
...in my first run.
Can't wait to learn the new synergies.
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Post by: Ravajaxe
gorgon wrote:davethepak wrote:
And the Ugly
* The Possibility of no BRB powers.
* S3 weapons in a lot of places....sounds like designed to kill tau and guard.
* malenthropes are still terrible (but FW has a new bundle for them).
* The relics are incredibly under par from any recent books.
** Was I expecting a biomorph that granted a 3++ and EW? Of course not, that would be....a space marine.
The explanation for this -- and other examples of individual infantry models having EW -- goes back to something I said before. Sometimes you have to look at the game like it's a narrative to get inside the studio's mind.
To the studio, other armies are proper protagonists and antagonists that get to have proper 'heroes' and 'villains'. Meanwhile Tyranids are just an animalistic adversary to be overcome. It's heroic and cinematic to have some level 1 librarian taking down a Trygon or Tervigon with a single swing of his force weapon, so that's acceptable. It's also heroic and cinematic for some SM officer suffer enormous blows from a Carnifex that should have pulverized him and keep fighting, so that's acceptable also. The EW rule is an expression of cinematic heroics/villainry.
It is what it is. I'm not really even griping about it, it's something I've come to accept in their approach to the game. I happen to like the new regen and catalyst for boosting durability, FWIW.
Anpu42 wrote:To me it looks like we are going to be getting alot of Starship Toopers like senarios, at least with the Swarm Armies.
Hundreds of bug charging across the field Fearlessly as I throw either buckes of bolter shot at them [or flashlights] hoping that I kill enough before they get into Melee. Then me Praying that the bug roll bad and me good rolling good. Then the Big Bugs showing up to finish me off.
Ranting about power level and tournament play set aside, these are nice points, getting this cinematic feel is exintig. I hope this codex will help providing battles that provide this feeling.
I remember the time when White Dwarf was not exlusively an advert magazine for Citadel miniatures, they actually promoted Paul Verhoven's Starship troopers film. In these remote times, Cadians were the old metal OOP models, with much less bulky armor, and a their typical helmet. Tyranid vs Imperial Guard battles were organized in GW shops. That was epic.
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Post by: ductvader
skarsol wrote:A Prime attached to Deathleaper looks like it would be a pretty nasty unit to have show up in your backyard.
Deathleaper can only ever be a unit of one.
16387
Post by: Manchu
Kroothawk wrote:Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.
Remembering the last nids rumors threads and tons of threads in tactics and army lists for the following years ... I am shocked to read such a thing!
20774
Post by: pretre
Manchu wrote: Kroothawk wrote:Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.
Remembering the last nids rumors threads and tons of threads in tactics and army lists for the following years ... I am shocked to read such a thing!
Yeah, that's a 'be careful what you ask for' kind of situation. People have been howling for Cruddace's blood since the last book came out. Looks like they got it.
50197
Post by: Siphen
Just relaying the info here.
http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/44428/tyranid-rumours-jan-last-update
Don't think I've seen some of that info in this threat yet. Hive Tyrant points and stats, Haruspex stats, etc.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Manchu wrote: Kroothawk wrote:Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.
Remembering the last nids rumors threads and tons of threads in tactics and army lists for the following years ... I am shocked to read such a thing!
I am personally sad because the presence of ymgarls was one of the few progressions/explanations in the 40k story we had seen when it came out.
It was amazing to learn that, yes, bugs have been here before.
27961
Post by: skarsol
ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote:A Prime attached to Deathleaper looks like it would be a pretty nasty unit to have show up in your backyard.
Deathleaper can only ever be a unit of one.
Oh, right, I forgot that they can't join "Single model units" in my head that autotranslates to MCs. :(
16387
Post by: Manchu
We don't know if that fluff has been retconned just yet.
20774
Post by: pretre
Manchu wrote:We don't know if that fluff has been retconned just yet.
We saw their fluff in one of the screenshots from the Black Library.
4884
Post by: Therion
I think the only really bad news so far is that the Tyranids have to wait for the first digital Hive Fleet supplement to ally with themselves, and that the new flyers didn't get any of the rumoured (read: made up) special rules like not being groundable and SV 3+.
The points reductions across the board are a significant buff and the Exocrine seems to dominate the heavy support slot in a Riptide / Heldrake fashion. Someone with the codex should calculate what 2 Flyrants, max Hive Guard, 2 Tervigons+Gaunts and 3 Exocrines costs in points, since that'll probably be the starting point for a lot of people. Once the allies kick in you'll get a 3rd Flyrant and 4th Exocrine in there somehow. It could very well be able to beat the Tau armies that people are now crying about since the Exocrine's gun beats the Ion Accelerator in a one on one, especially considering the price difference.
62401
Post by: Eyjio
One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
So stay in synapse?
I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Hmm... 48" Rupture Cannon... 24" Exocrine. Still stupid... pretre wrote:"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard
We have detailed reports of the entire Codex. Cute little lines pretre aren't going to suddenly make the Codex better when everyone has it.
30143
Post by: Carnage43
pretre wrote:Manchu wrote:We don't know if that fluff has been retconned just yet.
We saw their fluff in one of the screenshots from the Black Library.
"Every attempt to eradicate them has been met with....." and the rest is cut off. Judging from the removal of their entry from the codex, I'm going to guess the next work is "success".
20774
Post by: pretre
 H.B.M.C. wrote:We have detailed reports of the entire Codex. Cute little lines pretre aren't going to suddenly make the Codex better when everyone has it.
We had detailed reports and scans of the entire Eldar Codex and that was considered a failure. Give it a week or so.
73783
Post by: Skullhammer
Any one know if a prime is a psycher now? As giving it the synapse boosters and putting it in cover and out of site mid-field will solve most synapse issues.
20774
Post by: pretre
 Carnage43 wrote:"Every attempt to eradicate them has been met with....." and the rest is cut off. Judging from the removal of their entry from the codex, I'm going to guess the next work is "success".
I lol'd.
62401
Post by: Eyjio
ductvader wrote:Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
So stay in synapse?
I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.
Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?
20774
Post by: pretre
Eyjio wrote: ductvader wrote:Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
So stay in synapse?
I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.
Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?
Flying Monstrous Creatures?
27961
Post by: skarsol
Skullhammer wrote:Any one know if a prime is a psycher now? As giving it the synapse boosters and putting it in cover and out of site mid-field will solve most synapse issues.
They are not.
55015
Post by: The Shadow
No-one else picking up on this? I can't say I know the credibility of the source or whatever, but that's a lot of rumours to be digesting (pun intended).
Edit: Looking at this, the Exocrine, Venomthropes and Zoans seem awesome. Lictors would be too, but I'm not sure how much stuff can deep strike nowadays. Everything else looks largely unchanged, with the odd attack drop, which is disappointing. Even if it's worse change, change is change. I don't want to be playing with the old book + a few extras.
25360
Post by: ductvader
Eyjio wrote: ductvader wrote:Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
So stay in synapse?
I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.
Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?
Adrenal Glands, Onslaught, Tyrants, Shrikes, or just general coverage of the board.
If you have units hitting designated assault on multiple turns, you're doing tyranids wrong.
62401
Post by: Eyjio
pretre wrote:Eyjio wrote: ductvader wrote:Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
So stay in synapse?
I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.
Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?
Flying Monstrous Creatures?
The harpy and the crone are T5 with a 4+ and aren't even synapse. Unless your plan is to fly 2 hive tyrants (one of which MUST be your warlord) up the board, hope no-one shoots them and then keep them close enough to provide synapse to the gargoyles charging then that's not really an option. T6 W4 Hive Tyrants just aren't that hard to kill, especially for armies like Eldar and Tau.
27961
Post by: skarsol
 The Shadow wrote:
No-one else picking up on this? I can't say I know the credibility of the source or whatever, but that's a lot of rumours to be digesting (pun intended).
Lots of people have the book, there aren't any more "rumors" really.
181
Post by: gorgon
Eyjio wrote: ductvader wrote:Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
So stay in synapse?
I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.
Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?
Gotta use model positioning like Tyranid players have been doing for years. Create a "tail," for starters.
Edit: Also, how often are your Fearless Carnifexes failing Ld checks?
76206
Post by: Rotary
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Rotary wrote:Hmm they put in the red terror, so... maybe new rules for it?
Tyranid prime stats, If at least 4 attacks hit it has a chance to swallow a bulky or smaller model . That model only gets an invulnerable save or gets removed from play.
That would be great. I would like to have multiple good options for hq that play differently. The last year my only hq's i've ran have been tervigon/hive tyrant or swarmlord. Could be a lot of fun to switch it up.
27961
Post by: skarsol
The problem is you give up the 4 attacks to do that one swallow move. How often are you going to be in combat with a model that you'd want to do that to that doesn't have a decent invuln save?
75467
Post by: Zach
*Carnifex walks 11 inches away from Tyrant*
Tyrant: Carnifex! Don't be bad, stay. *whistles* Come!
*Carnifex makes that grin children make when they are about to do something bad and know it*
Tyrant: Dont you do it!
*Carnifex giggles and slowly steps its foot over another inch...*
Tyrant: You're going to be in trouble!
Carnifex steps his foot over the 12 inch line and immediately eats his own arm off.
50197
Post by: Siphen
Is there any word on why the Tyranid Prime (supposedly) went up by 45 points? I see no reason for him to stay unchanged with a ~55% points increase.
55015
Post by: The Shadow
skarsol wrote: The Shadow wrote:
No-one else picking up on this? I can't say I know the credibility of the source or whatever, but that's a lot of rumours to be digesting (pun intended).
Lots of people have the book, there aren't any more "rumors" really.
Until I see photographs of the pages in the actual book, I'm treating everything as "rumours".
27961
Post by: skarsol
Well I'm not going to take pictures of it, so you can keep being needlessly doubtful.
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Yet another thing I don't think I read anywhere, bioknouts don't lower the enemy's init, it buffs yours (+3).
30143
Post by: Carnage43
Therion wrote:I think the only really bad news so far is that the Tyranids have to wait for the first digital Hive Fleet supplement to ally with themselves, and that the new flyers didn't get any of the rumoured (read: made up) special rules like not being groundable and SV 3+.
The points reductions across the board are a significant buff and the Exocrine seems to dominate the heavy support slot in a Riptide / Heldrake fashion. Someone with the codex should calculate what 2 Flyrants, max Hive Guard, 2 Tervigons+Gaunts and 3 Exocrines costs in points, since that'll probably be the starting point for a lot of people. Once the allies kick in you'll get a 3rd Flyrant and 4th Exocrine in there somehow. It could very well be able to beat the Tau armies that people are now crying about since the Exocrine's gun beats the Ion Accelerator in a one on one, especially considering the price difference.
That "starting list" with minimal to no upgrades is 2100 points
230 x 2 for winged tyrants with double BL devourers
165 x 3 for Hive Guard
190 + 120 = 310 x 2 for troop tervigon (+toys, so probably 330+ here)
170 x 3 for Exocrine
-------
2085
Siphen wrote:Is there any word on why the Tyranid Prime (supposedly) went up by 45 points? I see no reason for him to stay unchanged with a ~55% points increase.
I have NO IDEA here. I really hope the Prime has some new toys, or something, because the rule of thumb for 6th has been cheaper characters all around, no idea why they would go the other direction on this one.
25360
Post by: ductvader
skarsol wrote:Well I'm not going to take pictures of it, so you can keep being needlessly doubtful.
skarsol has been the most reliable source of information here on dakka thus far.
And trust me, many of our watchful eyes have been watching for slip-ups...
4884
Post by: Therion
pretre wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:We have detailed reports of the entire Codex. Cute little lines pretre aren't going to suddenly make the Codex better when everyone has it.
We had detailed reports and scans of the entire Eldar Codex and that was considered a failure. Give it a week or so.
I still consider the Eldar Codex a failure
18080
Post by: Anpu42
 Iechine wrote:*Carnifex walks 11 inches away from Tyrant*
Tyrant: Carnifex! Don't be bad, stay. *whistles* Come!
*Carnifex makes that grin children make when they are about to do something bad and know it*
Tyrant: Dont you do it!
*Carnifex giggles and slowly steps its foot over another inch...*
Tyrant: You're going to be in trouble!
Carnifex steps his foot over the 12 inch line and immediately eats his own arm off.
=0o0=
Now that was funny
74230
Post by: BeeCee
Is the hive tyrant mastery level 2?
57667
Post by: MadmanMSU
Iechine wrote:*Carnifex walks 11 inches away from Tyrant* Tyrant: Carnifex! Don't be bad, stay. *whistles* Come! *Carnifex makes that grin children make when they are about to do something bad and know it* Tyrant: Dont you do it! *Carnifex giggles and slowly steps its foot over another inch...* Tyrant: You're going to be in trouble! Carnifex steps his foot over the 12 inch line and immediately eats his own arm off.
Carnifexes are fearless (supposedly)... ...but I still laughed at this.
62401
Post by: Eyjio
MadmanMSU wrote: Iechine wrote:*Carnifex walks 11 inches away from Tyrant*
Tyrant: Carnifex! Don't be bad, stay. *whistles* Come!
*Carnifex makes that grin children make when they are about to do something bad and know it*
Tyrant: Dont you do it!
*Carnifex giggles and slowly steps its foot over another inch...*
Tyrant: You're going to be in trouble!
Carnifex steps his foot over the 12 inch line and immediately eats his own arm off.
Carnifexes are fearless (supposedly)...
...but I still laughed at this.
Fearless doesn't help with instinctive behaviour. Most nid MCs are fearless.
8723
Post by: wyomingfox
More info from Jacked Up
1-8-14: The Tyranid Hive
Jackedup wrote:
Back again. Okay, some quick answers:
Zoanthrope Issue - A Zoanthrope brood follows all the rules for Brother hood pf Psykers except that the unit has a Mastery level of 2. In addition, if a brookd of Zoantrhopes uses the Warp Blast power, the number of shots fired is equal to the number of zoanthropes in that brood. (eg 3 Zoanthropes would make the burst and lance profiles assault 3)
Doom is gone, parasite is gone, mycetic spore is gone. Ymgarl stealers are gone, but the "ymgarl factor", of giving a special boost each assault round (+1 Str, +1 atk, Improve armour save by 1), can be purchased as a bio-artefact for 40 points.
Spore mines and shrikes are still around, and Red Terror is back. Gargoyles still have blinding venom, can buy toxin sacs and adrenal glands.
I don't see options to improve the Hive Tyrant's carapace to a 2+ save anymore, or any other HQ's for that matter. Looks like you'll need the Ymgarl Factor.
Tyrannofex rupture cannon is 30 points, 48' range, S 10, AP4, Assault 2
The tail morphs are:
Bone Mace, S 8, AP - , Unwieldy
Prehensile Pincer, S 6, AP 5
Thresher Scythe, S 4, AP 4, Rending
Toxinspike, S 1, AP 6, Poisoned 2+
A tail attack allows a single added attack, resolved separately from a model's other close combat attacks. It doesn't benefit from other melee weapons, biomorphs, etc.
Hive Tyrant stat line:
165 pts, WS 8, BS 4, S 6, T 6, W 4, I 5, A 4, Ld 10, Sv 3+ ( Interesting: You now have to pay 20 points for lash / whip, or it comes with two sets of ST)
FOC as follows:
HQ - Hive Tyrant, Swarmlord, ld One Eye, Tervigon, Tyranid Prime, Deathleaper
Troops - Warrior, Genestealers, Termagants, Hormagaunts, Ripper Swarm
Elites - Hive Guard, Lictor, Zoanthrope, Venomthrope, Haruspex, Pyrovore (Ha ha! Pyrovore "Elite"!)
Fast Attack - Shrikes, Raveners, Red Terror (as part of ONE Ravener brood), Sky Slasher, Gargoyle, Harpy, Hive Crone, Spore Mine Cluster (how mines are "fast" attack is beyond me)
Heavy Support - Carnifex, Biovore, Trygon and Prime, Mawlc, Exocrine, Tyrannofex
Powers of the Hive Mind:
1. Catalyst - 1 charge
Blessing that targets psyker's unit and up to one other friendly within 12'. Targets gain FNP.
2. The Horror - 1 charge
Malediction targeting single enemy unit within 24'. Target takes a pinning test at -2 Ld
3. Onslaught - 1 charge
Blessing that targets a single friendly unit within 24'. Unit can both run and shoot in the shooting phase.
4. Paroxysm - 1 charge
Malediction targeting single enemy unit within 24'. Target's WS and BS reduced by D3 (roll once for both)
5. Psychic Scream - 1 charge
Nova power, 6'. For each target unit, roll 2D6+ 2 and subtract Ld. Unit suffers wounds equal to result, no armour or cover saves.
6. Warp Blast - 2 charges
Witchfire power, either burst or lance. This is the standard Zoanthrope Warp Blast.
1. What can take regeneration?
Hive Tyrant, Tervigon, Prime, Broodlord, Haruspex, Harpy, Crone, Carnifex, Trygon and Prime, Mawloc (earlier I made a mistake and said they couldn't), Exocrine, and Tyrannofex.
Regen is a 30 point biomorph. Now you roll a single D6, and regen 1 wound on a 4+. Not one dice per wound lost.
2. Does anything have an invulnerable save, and if yes, what (other than Zoanthropes)?
Not that I see.
3. This one is wishful thinking on my part, but I assume there is no Codex special rule which allows certain units to run and assault (some of the earlier debunked rumours were mentioning things like this, and if it were true, it would IMHO solve all the other problems with this codex)?
Not that I see.
4. Do the rumoured upgrades for the tervigon exist? I'm talking about the ones which allow unlimited spawns or 4D6 spawns.
Not that I see.
5. What can take flesh hooks or whatever they're called (the things that act like frag grenades)?
Warriors and Prime.
6. You said the Haruspex was useful against infantry and that was about it, and then said it had a S6 tongue attack, which i'm a little confused about. As far as you can see, can it still use smash (being a monstrous creature) to get 2 S10 AP2 attacks against vehicles (or anything else), or more attacks if it is wounded?
Haruspex (160 pts)
WS 3, BS 3, S 6, T 6, W 5, I 3, A 3, Ld 7, Sv 3+
Feeder Beast - If a Haruspex inflicts at least one unsaved one in the assault phase, it recovers a single wound at the end of that phase.
Rapacious Hunger - In the turn in which it charges, every unsaved wound it inflicts in close combat allows it to make an additional attack. These bonus attacks cannot generate further attacks. Wounds that inflict instant death generate only one bonus attack, and wounds caused by HW, acid blood, or tail do not benefit from this rule.
The Haruspex has a Grasping tongue - 12', S6, AP 2, Assault 1, Gulp!
Gulp! A to hit roll of a 6 is a precision shot.
7. Although scything talons now suck apparently, does the trygon still reroll all misses in CC via some new special rule or whatever, or does he just get an extra attack for two sets of scything talons, and attack at AP6 (useless)?
He gets an extra attack. He is monstrous though, so it's always at AP2 right? I dunno, because the entry for ST says Str (user) and AP 6
8. Other than the points decrease, is the Tyrannofex the same, as in, is the Rupture cannon still S10 AP4 two shots?
Same. The cannon is 30 points (dunno what it used to be)
Biovore (40 pts)
WS 3, BS 3, S 4, T 4, W 3, I 2, A 2, Ld 6, Sv 4+
Spore Mine Launcher 48', S 4, AP 4, Assault 1, Barrage, Last Blast, Spore Burst
Rules are a bit long winded, but seem about the same.
Pyrovore looks about the same as well. Template weapon, acid maw, explode when you kill them, etc.
Zoanthropes can take one other Psyker power as a brotherhood (they always have Warp Blast)...
Is the Death Leaper an Independent Character or just a solo-deploying HQ Lictor?
Infantry (Character), HQ, 130 points, Mind Eater Warlord Trait (2 vp for killing characters in challenge)
WS 9, BS 3, S 6, T 4, W 3, I 7, A 4, Ld 10, Sv 5+
Rending claws, ST, flesh hooks
Chameleonic skin, Deep Strike, Fear, Fleet, Hit & Run, Infiltrate, Instinctive Behaviur (Lurk), Move Through Cover, Phermone Trail, Stealth
It's After Me! (Lower a character's Ld by D3)
Where is It (Enemy models can only fire snap shots when targeting Deathleaper)...
Raveners (30 pts per model)
WS 5, BS 3, S 4, T 4, W 3, I 5, A 3, Ld 6, Sv 5+
Deep strike, Instinct (Feed), two pairs of ST. Any Ravener can exchange one pair of ST for Rending claws at 5 points per model.
Can take Spinefists (3 pts), Devourer (5 pts), Deathspitter (10 pts). One Ravener in the *army* may be upgraded to Red Terror for 85 points:
Red Terror
WS 6, BS 3, S 5, T 5, W 3, I 5, A 4, Ld 8, Sv 4+
Two pairs of ST, Prehensile Pincer (see that tail list I posted up there), Deep Strike, Swallow Whole (if it hits with 4 attacks, it auto kills a guy. The guys gets his invuln save and that's it)
Carnifex (120 points)
WS 3, BS 3, S 9, T 6, W 4, I 2, A 3, Ld 7, Sv 3+
Fearless, Instinct (Feed), Living Battering Ram (D3 Hammer of Wrath hits)
May replace ST with crushing claws (15 pts)
May take any bio-morph, spine banks (5 pts), or Bio Plasma (20 pts). May take Thresher scythe (10 pts) or Bone Mace (15 pts) tail morphs.
Instinctive Behaviour
(As before, Fail Ld and be out of synapse for this to happen)
Instinct (Lurk)
1 - 3: Survive. The unit is treated as having failed a morale test and immediately falls back
4 - 5: Seek Cover. In the movement phase the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain, but still must take Dangerous Terrain Tests. In the shooting phase, the unit can run, but can only shoot if it is in a building or area terrain. The unit cannot charge in assault.
6: Stalk. As 4-5, but gains stealth.
Instinct (Hunt)
1 - 3: Burrow and Hide. The unit immediately goes to ground. If there is a fearless model, use results from 4-5 instead.
4- 5: Prowl. In the shooting phase, the unit cannot Run and must shoot at the closest enemy unit within range and line of sight. If there is no viable target, do nothing. Cannot charge in assault.
6: Destroy. As Prowl above. Also gains preferred enemy.
Instinct (Feed)
1-3: Cannibalistic Hunger. Unit suffers hits equal to number of models in the unit. Use majority strength, AP -. Wounds allocated by owning players. Armour saves okay, but no cover saves. Unit can do nothing. If it is a single model, use devour (as if rolled 4 - 5).
4-5: Devour. Cannot shoot or run. In Assault, must charge closest enemy or do nothing.
6: Kill. As above, but gains rage.
Hive Tyrant, Swarmlord entries both say they generate their powers from Powers of the Hivemind. Broodlord always only knows The Horror.
Carnifex can buy their bio plasma and can buy bio cannons, sorry missed it out while typing. Carnifex can buy every damn thing from the looks of it
venomthrope still 45 points.
WS 3, BS 3, S 4, T 4, W 2, I 3, A 2, Ld 6, Sv 5+.
Lash whips (+3 Init), confers shrouded on self and wihin 6'. Poisoned 2+, Instinct (Feed). Toxic Miasma: Usable once per game, in assault. During init step 1, all enemy units enaged in combat take hits = models in base to base. Hits are Str 3, Ap -. Poisoned and ignores cover.
Brainleech Devourer is 18', S6, AP-, Assault 6.
Note that Hive guard Impaler cannon is unchanged (still Str 8, no need line of sight, etc.) Hive guard are 55 pts with same stats.
Swarmlord (285 pts)
Ws 9, BS 4, S6, T 6, W 5, I 6, A 4, Ld 10, Sv 3+
MC, Character
Warlord Trait: Synaptic Lynchpin (18' synapse)
Psyker level 3, Shadow in the Warp, Synapse
Alien Cunning: Must add 1 to reserve rolls
Swarm Leader: At beginning of turn, choose either Swarmlord's Unit, are a friendly unit within 18'. Unit gains Furious Charge, Monster Hunter, or Preferred Enemy till end of turn.
Swarmlord generates powers from Pwers of the Hivemind.
TWO pairs of Bone Sabres: Str User, AP2, Blade Parry (4+ invuln against wounds caused by melee weapons), Instant Death
4884
Post by: Therion
Carnage43 wrote:Therion wrote:I think the only really bad news so far is that the Tyranids have to wait for the first digital Hive Fleet supplement to ally with themselves, and that the new flyers didn't get any of the rumoured (read: made up) special rules like not being groundable and SV 3+.
The points reductions across the board are a significant buff and the Exocrine seems to dominate the heavy support slot in a Riptide / Heldrake fashion. Someone with the codex should calculate what 2 Flyrants, max Hive Guard, 2 Tervigons+Gaunts and 3 Exocrines costs in points, since that'll probably be the starting point for a lot of people. Once the allies kick in you'll get a 3rd Flyrant and 4th Exocrine in there somehow. It could very well be able to beat the Tau armies that people are now crying about since the Exocrine's gun beats the Ion Accelerator in a one on one, especially considering the price difference.
That "starting list" with minimal to no upgrades is 2100 points
230 x 2 for winged tyrants with double BL devourers
165 x 3 for Hive Guard
190 + 120 = 310 x 2 for troop tervigon (+toys, so probably 330+ here)
170 x 3 for Exocrine
-------
2085
Cheers. So the first thing to go are the Tervigons. Nids will go like everyone else, MSU troop units that don't actually do anything else except hide. If you go with 6x10 Gaunts the list is only 1700 points. So the list after the first Nid supplement will be flyrant+9 hg+few units of gants+3 exocrines allying with a detachment of flyrant+3 hg+gants+exocrine Completely unimaginative, just like most CSM and Eldar lists, so in short completely expected.
57667
Post by: MadmanMSU
Eyjio wrote:MadmanMSU wrote: Iechine wrote:*Carnifex walks 11 inches away from Tyrant* Tyrant: Carnifex! Don't be bad, stay. *whistles* Come! *Carnifex makes that grin children make when they are about to do something bad and know it* Tyrant: Dont you do it! *Carnifex giggles and slowly steps its foot over another inch...* Tyrant: You're going to be in trouble! Carnifex steps his foot over the 12 inch line and immediately eats his own arm off.
Carnifexes are fearless (supposedly)... ...but I still laughed at this.
Fearless doesn't help with instinctive behaviour. Most nid MCs are fearless.
Pretty sure you have to fail a leadership to have IB kick in, which is hard to do when you automatically pass leadership checks. Could be new though, I don't have the codex yet.
45327
Post by: CalgarsPimpHand
gorgon wrote:Eyjio wrote: ductvader wrote:Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
So stay in synapse?
I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.
Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?
Gotta use model positioning like Tyranid players have been doing for years. Create a "tail," for starters.
Edit: Also, how often are your Fearless Carnifexes failing Ld checks?
Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.
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Post by: skarsol
ML2, no option to upgrade.
41478
Post by: Gloomfang
This is my first time chiming in on this thread and I think many people are missing the point of a lot of the complaints from hardcore Nid players like me. These points are not based on rumors, but on info from people I know and trust who got theirs early (I would have had mine today if I didn’t pick in store pick-up).
1) The last codex had a lot of units that had no models. We are used to this and kit bashed and converted away like we always do. I now have a Doom that I can probably use as a Zoen and a Parasite that I might pass off as a shrike if I do some more work on it. I also have 3 custom built spore pods that I poured a few hours into each. Those are all gone from the codex. We basically wasted all that time, money and effort.
2) On top of that one of our favorite units (Ymgarl stealers) that had a lot of flavor and cool rules are gone. That is another batch of models that we spent time and money on sitting on the shelf. Yes we can use them as normal stealers, but a lot of us have normal stealers already anyway.
3) The concept of a fast rushing tide of claws and teeth is dead. We are officially the slowest army out of the entire 40K Universe. We have NO transports, NO drop pods and while we do have deepstrike on some units and we have our FMCs the vast majority of our army is forced to slog it across the board while hoping for good dice rolls.
4) There are army wide exclusions that make sense fluff wise, but are not balanced out game mechanic wise. We have no allies and we cannot pick out of the BRB for powers for ANY of our psykers for example. We also have no ground based anti-air and one of our flyers can’t even shoot other flyers.
5) There is a big feeling that people who loved CC and having the best CC army have been patted on the head and told that “Its all about the guns baby!”
6) There have been several across the board nerfs that I can understand speed up play. But it comes at the cost of increasing risk to a silly level. What used to be 3 rolls to get the Warp Lance off, 3 to hit and 3 DtW are now down to 3 to-hit rolls and one roll each for Perils and DtW (and it was nerfed to AP2). A lot of units counted on Scytal re-rolls to be viable and no amount of “But there cheaper!” takes away the sting. Synapse went from “good to have a unit in it” to “You better not get out of it or very bad things will happen!” Right because vanguard units like Lictors needed another nerf (but the points went down!)
At the end of the day Nids will be competitive and will win games. I have no doubt about it. At TTH we already have lists underway to Mathhammer with the information we have as of right now. There is at least 2-3 builds that look promising. But they don’t feel “Niddy”, they feel like some other army. The term Space Skaven has come up more than once. And I don’t know how they can fix that.
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Post by: Redemption
Fearless doesn't mean you auto-pass Instinctive Behaviour tests.
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Post by: skarsol
 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.
Nothing in the Carnifex entry modifies its IB at all.
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Post by: NamelessBard
Wasn't it 205 for flying + ML2 + dual Brainleech in the WD? With 165 base, does that mean 20 for flying and 10 each for TL-brain leech then?
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Eyjio wrote:MadmanMSU wrote: Iechine wrote:*Carnifex walks 11 inches away from Tyrant*
Tyrant: Carnifex! Don't be bad, stay. *whistles* Come!
*Carnifex makes that grin children make when they are about to do something bad and know it*
Tyrant: Dont you do it!
*Carnifex giggles and slowly steps its foot over another inch...*
Tyrant: You're going to be in trouble!
Carnifex steps his foot over the 12 inch line and immediately eats his own arm off.
Carnifexes are fearless (supposedly)...
...but I still laughed at this.
Fearless doesn't help with instinctive behaviour. Most nid MCs are fearless.
Luckily the hits from the IB are AP- , otherwise a carnifex brood could almost eat a whole carnifex off ...
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Post by: MadmanMSU
CalgarsPimpHand wrote: gorgon wrote:Eyjio wrote: ductvader wrote:Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
So stay in synapse?
I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.
Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?
Gotta use model positioning like Tyranid players have been doing for years. Create a "tail," for starters.
Edit: Also, how often are your Fearless Carnifexes failing Ld checks?
Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.
Well that sucks.
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Post by: skarsol
NamelessBard wrote:
Wasn't it 205 for flying + ML2 + dual Brainleech in the WD? With 165 base, does that mean 20 for flying and 10 each for TL-brain leech then?
Edit: WD = 2 TL BL, wings for 230. 165 + 35 + 15 + 15 = 230.
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Post by: Eyjio
NamelessBard wrote:
Wasn't it 205 for flying + ML2 + dual Brainleech in the WD? With 165 base, does that mean 20 for flying and 10 each for TL-brain leech then?
It was 230, so presumably it's 35 flying, 15 per TL devourer.
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Post by: ductvader
CalgarsPimpHand wrote:Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.
Fail LD 7 Roll 1- 3 Roll 2-6 to wound Roll 1-2 to fail save 6% of the time, that's not bad. 12% of the time a hormagaunt will kill himself. A near 1/9 chance is an acceptable risk as well.
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Post by: Eyjio
skarsol wrote:NamelessBard wrote:
Wasn't it 205 for flying + ML2 + dual Brainleech in the WD? With 165 base, does that mean 20 for flying and 10 each for TL-brain leech then?
165 + 35 wings + 15 TL BL = WD is bad at maths.
15*2 though, they had 2 sets.
47547
Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.
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Post by: skarsol
Yeah, I looked up the WD and fixed my post. Automatically Appended Next Post: CthuluIsSpy wrote:Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.
Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.
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Post by: Eldercaveman
So Bonesabres no longer force re-roll of successful invulnerable saves?
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
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Post by: skarsol
Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.
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Post by: ductvader
skarsol wrote: CthuluIsSpy wrote:Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.
Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.
Look at the standard devourer, not brainleech. In 5th the standard devourer itself did -1LD on subsequent morale tests if a model was killed.
47547
Post by: CthuluIsSpy
skarsol wrote:
Yeah, I looked up the WD and fixed my post.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.
Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.
Ah really? I must be thinking of another edition then. Still, 6 shots at S6 is nifty. Unless you mean AP6.
27961
Post by: skarsol
ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote: CthuluIsSpy wrote:Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.
Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.
Look at the standard devourer, not brainleech. In 5th the standard devourer itself did -1LD on subsequent morale tests if a model was killed.
They're both in the same section, nothing about LD.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ah really? I must be thinking of another edition then. Still, 6 shots at S6 is nifty. Unless you mean AP6.
AP-
50463
Post by: Eldercaveman
ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote:Shingen wrote:Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.
They give Shrouded to friendly Models (so Units) within 6".
Fantastic! I built mine from chaos spawn. All tentacles and hormagaunt heads...I don't like the current r@pethrope.
PM or link some photos, I'm interested to see what you've done, thanks
skarsol wrote:
Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.
You will notice I said Bonesabres, not Swords.
181
Post by: gorgon
CalgarsPimpHand wrote: gorgon wrote:Eyjio wrote: ductvader wrote:Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
So stay in synapse?
I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.
Cool. Now, without the parasite, deep striking units and things like Doom pushing synapse down the board, how are you going to keep all of your synapse alive AND far enough forwards to support gargoyles?
Gotta use model positioning like Tyranid players have been doing for years. Create a "tail," for starters.
Edit: Also, how often are your Fearless Carnifexes failing Ld checks?
Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.
It may be a misread on my part. I read the Tyranid Hive rumors to be that the mechanic had changed to being a roll on the IB table after a failed (regular) Ld test, like Morale, etc. Reading it again, I guess it might just be referring to the current mechanic.
27961
Post by: skarsol
Eldercaveman wrote:
skarsol wrote:
Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.
You will notice I said Bonesabres, not Swords.
I assumed it was a typo cause there ain't no such thing as Bonesabres in the codex.
47547
Post by: CthuluIsSpy
skarsol wrote: ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote: CthuluIsSpy wrote:Does Horror and Psychic Scream stack with Brainleech (that's the one that gives -1 LD, right?). If so, one can pull off some interesting things. Though how one would get in range for PS is anyone's guess.
Brainleech worms just upgrade the gun to S6A6. Nothing about LD.
Look at the standard devourer, not brainleech. In 5th the standard devourer itself did -1LD on subsequent morale tests if a model was killed.
They're both in the same section, nothing about LD. Automatically Appended Next Post: CthuluIsSpy wrote: Ah really? I must be thinking of another edition then. Still, 6 shots at S6 is nifty. Unless you mean AP6.
AP-
Eh, I use tesla. High volumes of high strength shots tends to circumvent bad AP.
50463
Post by: Eldercaveman
skarsol wrote:Eldercaveman wrote:
skarsol wrote:
Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.
You will notice I said Bonesabres, not Swords.
I assumed it was a typo cause there ain't no such thing as Bonesabres in the codex.
You know what happens when you assume?
See:Swarmlord
25360
Post by: ductvader
skarsol wrote:Eldercaveman wrote:
skarsol wrote:
Boneswords are S User AP3 To Wound 6 = ID. Nothing about invuln saves. Pretty blah.
You will notice I said Bonesabres, not Swords.
I assumed it was a typo cause there ain't no such thing as Bonesabres in the codex.
He's talking about Swarmlord, Swarmy used to force the enemy to reroll passed invuln saves that his swords inflicted.
27961
Post by: skarsol
Bah, they're not listed in the summary section, or any of the normal weapon sections.
They're S User, AP2, grant 4+ Invuln vs melee, cause ID. Nothing referencing opponents invuln saves.
25360
Post by: ductvader
I have a big question, it should be listed immediately before CC biomorphs,
Do CC biomorph abilities stack?
So, If I had boneswords and rending claws...would I cause AP2 Instant Death Wounds on 6s to wound?
31598
Post by: sLeEpYrOcK
skarsol wrote:Bah, they're not listed in the summary section, or any of the normal weapon sections.
They're S User, AP2, grant 4+ Invuln vs melee, cause ID. Nothing referencing opponents invuln saves.
They'll be in the swarmlord specific profile.
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Post by: gorgon
The CC biomorph question is a big one.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Wait, so a Carnifex brood can eat itself now?
Talk about forging a narrative...
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Post by: skarsol
ductvader wrote:I have a big question, it should be listed immediately before CC biomorphs,
Do CC biomorph abilities stack?
So, If I had boneswords and rending claws...would I cause AP2 Instant Death Wounds on 6s to wound?
Nothing in the Melee Weapons section modifies the BRB rules other than 1 "pair" of weapons = 1 attack, so for example, a Genestealer with a pair of rending claws and a pair of scything talons gets +1A over its profile.
What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?
25360
Post by: ductvader
skarsol wrote: ductvader wrote:I have a big question, it should be listed immediately before CC biomorphs,
Do CC biomorph abilities stack?
So, If I had boneswords and rending claws...would I cause AP2 Instant Death Wounds on 6s to wound?
Nothing in the Melee Weapons section modifies the BRB rules other than 1 "pair" of weapons = 1 attack, so for example, a Genestealer with a pair of rending claws and a pair of scything talons gets +1A over its profile.
What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?
The big book says to choose, the old book says they stack...
7637
Post by: Sasori
With No biomancy, and the nerf to his Bonesabres, Swarmlord got significantly worse.
For someone that has the book, Is the Mawloc thing true? Because it seems pretty darn good if it is. a Str 6 AP 2 large blast, that ignores cover, and has a chance to hit twice, seems pretty awesome.
If that is true, and the Mawloc Stats have stayed the same, I could see 2-3 Mawlocs in HS, easy.
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
2x3 Carnifex w/Dual Devourers (assuming they can still take 2) with primes attached. The rest of the list is fillied with gargoyles and gants......Could be fun.
27961
Post by: skarsol
 Sasori wrote:With No biomancy, and the nerf to his Bonesabres, Swarmlord got significantly worse.
For someone that has the book, Is the Mawloc thing true? Because it seems pretty darn good if it is. a Str 6 AP 2 large blast, that ignores cover, and has a chance to hit twice, seems pretty awesome.
If that is true, and the Mawloc Stats have stayed the same, I could see 2-3 Mawlocs in HS, easy.
Mawloc DS then scatters. If any units under it, place the Large Blast and any non-flying units under it take a S6 AP2 Ignore Cover hit. If you can now place the Mawloc, do so. If you can't, do the Large Blast again. If you still can't place the Mawloc, mishap. So don't DS onto units with lots of Invuln saves.
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Post by: Shingen
Eyjio wrote:One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.
Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.
I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.
Seriously, if you can't play nids without biomancy you shouldn't play nids.
50463
Post by: Eldercaveman
ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote: ductvader wrote:I have a big question, it should be listed immediately before CC biomorphs,
Do CC biomorph abilities stack?
So, If I had boneswords and rending claws...would I cause AP2 Instant Death Wounds on 6s to wound?
Nothing in the Melee Weapons section modifies the BRB rules other than 1 "pair" of weapons = 1 attack, so for example, a Genestealer with a pair of rending claws and a pair of scything talons gets +1A over its profile.
What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?
The big book says to choose, the old book says they stack...
I'm looking for it now, and I've always played it as that. But where does the 5th Ed book say it?
4884
Post by: Therion
Sasori wrote:With No biomancy, and the nerf to his Bonesabres, Swarmlord got significantly worse.
For someone that has the book, Is the Mawloc thing true? Because it seems pretty darn good if it is. a Str 6 AP 2 large blast, that ignores cover, and has a chance to hit twice, seems pretty awesome.
If that is true, and the Mawloc Stats have stayed the same, I could see 2-3 Mawlocs in HS, easy.
Over the Exocrines that can shoot 6 S7 AP2 shots or an S7 AP2 large blast every turn? Doubtful, but it's certainly not that bad. With double foc or allies shenanigans I could see a use for one or two.
27961
Post by: skarsol
ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote:
What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?
The big book says to choose, the old book says they stack...
I dont see anything in the melee sections or the army special rules that says they stack.
45327
Post by: CalgarsPimpHand
ductvader wrote: CalgarsPimpHand wrote:Fearless is for Morale, Pinning, etc. Instinctive Behavior just forces a Ld test, so barring any changes to Carnifexes, they will be eating their arms off.
Fail LD 7
Roll 1- 3
Roll 2-6 to wound
Roll 1-2 to fail save
6% of the time, that's not bad.
12% of the time a hormagaunt will kill himself. A near 1/9 chance is an acceptable risk as well.
For a brood of 2 Carnifexes, the minimum size to actually cause you to hit yourself, it's actually something like a 10-12% chance you'll end up taking at least one wound if you're outside synapse. Math was a little quick and dirty but it's about that.
Side note, I've never seen anyone white-knight anything as hard as you're white-knighting this codex.
7637
Post by: Sasori
skarsol wrote: Sasori wrote:With No biomancy, and the nerf to his Bonesabres, Swarmlord got significantly worse.
For someone that has the book, Is the Mawloc thing true? Because it seems pretty darn good if it is. a Str 6 AP 2 large blast, that ignores cover, and has a chance to hit twice, seems pretty awesome.
If that is true, and the Mawloc Stats have stayed the same, I could see 2-3 Mawlocs in HS, easy.
Mawloc DS then scatters. If any units under it, place the Large Blast and any non-flying units under it take a S6 AP2 Ignore Cover hit. If you can now place the Mawloc, do so. If you can't, do the Large Blast again. If you still can't place the Mawloc, mishap. So don't DS onto units with lots of Invuln saves.
I can deal with that, that's pretty excellent in fact.
You can't do this turn 1 though, correct?
Also, do they same statline as they do now?
Thanks again for taking the time to answer questions!
60606
Post by: antoniomidnor
25360
Post by: ductvader
Eldercaveman wrote: ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote: ductvader wrote:I have a big question, it should be listed immediately before CC biomorphs,
Do CC biomorph abilities stack?
So, If I had boneswords and rending claws...would I cause AP2 Instant Death Wounds on 6s to wound?
Nothing in the Melee Weapons section modifies the BRB rules other than 1 "pair" of weapons = 1 attack, so for example, a Genestealer with a pair of rending claws and a pair of scything talons gets +1A over its profile.
What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?
The big book says to choose, the old book says they stack...
I'm looking for it now, and I've always played it as that. But where does the 5th Ed book say it?
Iunno? The same place it says that bugs never get additional attacks for multiple cc weapons.
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Post by: Eyjio
So, here's some fun maths about Mawlocs. Let's assume that it's managed to hit 6 guardsmen, who are looking to get splatted.
Wanna know the chance to mishap? 1-P(killing everything in 2 hits). P(killing a thing in 2 hits) is 29/36 (only snake eyes fails), so for 6, the chance at least ONE will live and cause a mishap is 1 - (29/36)^6. Or, in other words, about 72%. Yep, 72% chance to mishap assuming that your DS wasn't doing so anyway.
It turns out that the best defence against Mawlocs is to clump everything up, so that it almost always mishaps. Sure feels narrative in here.
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Post by: Therion
Nice pictures.
El Senor De La Horda has to be the best name ever.
25360
Post by: ductvader
CalgarsPimpHand wrote:For a brood of 2 Carnifexes, the minimum size to actually cause you to hit yourself, it's actually something like a 10-12% chance you'll end up taking at least one wound if you're outside synapse. Math was a little quick and dirty but it's about that.
Absolutely, 6% per Fex
CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
Side note, I've never seen anyone white-knight anything as hard as you're white-knighting this codex.
Thank you?
34416
Post by: B0B MaRlEy
skarsol wrote: ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote:
What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?
The big book says to choose, the old book says they stack...
I dont see anything in the melee sections or the army special rules that says they stack.
The old one had a FAQ say it, nothing in the book itself says it IIRC
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Post by: gorgon
 Hulksmash wrote:2x3 Carnifex w/Dual Devourers (assuming they can still take 2) with primes attached. The rest of the list is fillied with gargoyles and gants......Could be fun.
You and I are thinking similarly with the first part there. Carnifexes really look to be the value pick. Automatically Appended Next Post: Sasori wrote:With No biomancy, and the nerf to his Bonesabres, Swarmlord got significantly worse.
For someone that has the book, Is the Mawloc thing true? Because it seems pretty darn good if it is. a Str 6 AP 2 large blast, that ignores cover, and has a chance to hit twice, seems pretty awesome.
If that is true, and the Mawloc Stats have stayed the same, I could see 2-3 Mawlocs in HS, easy.
I think the scatters make them somewhat unreliable.
Depending on how the Mawloc's rules read, mishaps may actually have a chance to actually work in your favor if it goes back into ongoing reserves.
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Post by: Eldercaveman
ductvader wrote:Eldercaveman wrote: ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote: ductvader wrote:I have a big question, it should be listed immediately before CC biomorphs,
Do CC biomorph abilities stack?
So, If I had boneswords and rending claws...would I cause AP2 Instant Death Wounds on 6s to wound?
Nothing in the Melee Weapons section modifies the BRB rules other than 1 "pair" of weapons = 1 attack, so for example, a Genestealer with a pair of rending claws and a pair of scything talons gets +1A over its profile.
What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?
The big book says to choose, the old book says they stack...
I'm looking for it now, and I've always played it as that. But where does the 5th Ed book say it?
Iunno? The same place it says that bugs never get additional attacks for multiple cc weapons.
No that just says about the CC weapons and bonus attacks...
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Post by: Zach
English or Russian please. :(
81863
Post by: Django_Unchained
Sasori wrote:With No biomancy, and the nerf to his Bonesabres, Swarmlord got significantly worse.
For someone that has the book, Is the Mawloc thing true? Because it seems pretty darn good if it is. a Str 6 AP 2 large blast, that ignores cover, and has a chance to hit twice, seems pretty awesome.
If that is true, and the Mawloc Stats have stayed the same, I could see 2-3 Mawlocs in HS, easy.
What happened to his bone sabres? How were they nerfed?
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Post by: Uriels_Flame
Holy crap, I started reading on page 80 and there were 3 pages added to this thread!
It is sad to hear a lot of the forward thinking was removed, but the more I see of 6th ed (lower point costs/more models needed/higher costs for same or less models) i just see 40k as Epic - and if you want to play Epic, buy the Epic models. You can actually play with titans on the table top vs. the basketball court.
This is no longer/not going back to the squad based game. 4x6 tables are not going to be big enough - especially at tourneys. Who gets excited to see foot orks/eldar/nids across the table?
Not that you can't win, but you have to deal with slow play from a 200+ model count army and very possibly can't win due to getting 2 turns.
New models are hit and miss, but I think Nids hit their stride later 3rd/early 4th.
Sorry nid players. I long for the cinematic days of 3rd edition as well.
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Post by: skarsol
Sasori wrote:skarsol wrote: Sasori wrote:With No biomancy, and the nerf to his Bonesabres, Swarmlord got significantly worse.
For someone that has the book, Is the Mawloc thing true? Because it seems pretty darn good if it is. a Str 6 AP 2 large blast, that ignores cover, and has a chance to hit twice, seems pretty awesome.
If that is true, and the Mawloc Stats have stayed the same, I could see 2-3 Mawlocs in HS, easy.
Mawloc DS then scatters. If any units under it, place the Large Blast and any non-flying units under it take a S6 AP2 Ignore Cover hit. If you can now place the Mawloc, do so. If you can't, do the Large Blast again. If you still can't place the Mawloc, mishap. So don't DS onto units with lots of Invuln saves.
I can deal with that, that's pretty excellent in fact.
You can't do this turn 1 though, correct?
Also, do they same statline as they do now?
Thanks again for taking the time to answer questions!
It deepstrikes as per normal. It can't burrow on turn 1. It can't burrow and DS on the same turn. Exact same statline.
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Post by: Therion
The Mawloc has 6 T6 wounds for 140 points? That's really cheap. 23 points for a T6 wound with a 3+ AS is good no matter how you spin it.
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Post by: xttz
Therion wrote:Nice pictures.
El Senor De La Horda has to be the best name ever.
Today I learned Deathleaper is 'Silent Death' in Spanish. Awesome.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Harpy/Crone = T5 Sv4+.
Wonderful.
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Post by: skarsol
Hulksmash wrote:2x3 Carnifex w/Dual Devourers (assuming they can still take 2) with primes attached. The rest of the list is fillied with gargoyles and gants......Could be fun.
They can have dual devourers with brainleech worms. They can also have tail weapons, bioplasma, and/or spine banks in addition to the Devourers.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Well...at least they are cheap. Perhaps they will be like glass cannons? I've noticed they are LD10 as well. You don't have to worry so much about IB with them, it seems.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Well...at least they are cheap. Perhaps they will be like glass cannons?
Because Tyranids need glass cannons?
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Post by: easysauce
yeah, I think all the nay saysers are really under estimateing how good the pts reduction is for nids...
hormagaunts are AWESOME... fleet AND +3 inched to their run? stock? yes please....
cheap carnifexes, lots of fast troops...
all I hear is complainigng about getting across the board though... I mean if my orks can get across on foot, Im sure your fleeted + 3 in hormies and other flyers/beats can as well...
I might actually pick up nids again at some point.
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Post by: NamelessBard
Great, Hive guard now BS3...
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Post by: Therion
The HS section is stacked with usable stuff, and I suppose the Elites won't be a problem. It's just a shame the fast attack flopped bigtime. We were just 1 'Serpent Shield' special rule away from having some new Tyranid overlords... 
Great, Hive guard now BS3...
When Gav Thorpe originally nerfed the Dark Elf Cold Ones from M8 to M7, his reasoning (printed in WD) was that the miniatures looked slow. I suppose Cruddy or someone else noted that the Hive Guard have very small or non-existent eyes so how could they possibly shoot straight?
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Post by: airmang
 easysauce wrote:yeah, I think all the nay saysers are really under estimateing how good the pts reduction is for nids...
hormagaunts are AWESOME... fleet AND +3 inched to their run? stock? yes please....
cheap carnifexes, lots of fast troops...
all I hear is complainigng about getting across the board though... I mean if my orks can get across on foot, Im sure your fleeted + 3 in hormies and other flyers/beats can as well...
I might actually pick up nids again at some point.
Yeah, seeing as pretty much everything can purchase/has Fleet this army is going to be alot faster than expected.
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Post by: Carnage43
AND they went up 5 points!
WOO!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
You wouldn't want Tyranid shooting units that are dedicated to shooting and only to shooting and do nothing but shoot to actually be good at shooting, would you?
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Post by: Sasori
Therion wrote:The Mawloc has 6 T6 wounds for 140 points? That's really cheap. 23 points for a T6 wound with a 3+ AS is good no matter how you spin it.
It also appears Hive Tyrants still have their three upgrades available.
I'm thinking with Hive Commander available, you can do some serious damage with Mawlocs. 2-3 Deepstriking on turn 2 with up to 6 Strength 6 Ap2 large blasts, and a possible 18 T6 Sv 3+ MCs will really wreck a gunline...
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Post by: Eldercaveman
B0B MaRlEy wrote:skarsol wrote: ductvader wrote:skarsol wrote:
What does the BRB say about using 2 non-specialist weapons with different special abilities?
The big book says to choose, the old book says they stack...
I dont see anything in the melee sections or the army special rules that says they stack.
The old one had a FAQ say it, nothing in the book itself says it IIRC
So we may get an FAQ
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Post by: skarsol
easysauce wrote:yeah, I think all the nay saysers are really under estimateing how good the pts reduction is for nids...
hormagaunts are AWESOME... fleet AND +3 inched to their run? stock? yes please....
cheap carnifexes, lots of fast troops...
all I hear is complainigng about getting across the board though... I mean if my orks can get across on foot, Im sure your fleeted + 3 in hormies and other flyers/beats can as well...
I might actually pick up nids again at some point.
Horm: 3 WS LD6 6+ for 5. Add Furious Charge for 2, Poison for 3.
Daemonette: 5 WS Ld 7 5++, rending for 9.
Not sure which comes out better.
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Post by: Plumbumbarum
 Gloomfang wrote: There is at least 2-3 builds that look promising. But they don’t feel “Niddy”, they feel like some other army.
Yes. I also get a very bland vibe from what I've read so far.
Gloomfang wrote:The term Space Skaven has come up more than once. And I don’t know how they can fix that.
Except Skaven have ability to shoot into combat afaik (do they?). That would be great for nids, fluffy too as they would eat the corpses anyway later but no, Hive Tyrant couldn't do it to his dear gants.
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Post by: jifel
Oh my! Five years of Spanish class is suddenly incredibly useful! No special rules, but this clears up a lot. WE AREN"T SCREWED GUYS, ITS GONNA BE OK!
Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper. And Buiovores are now ridiculously good. So are Exocrines. Honestly I may not even need a Crone, because holy crap! I'm psyched. Yesterday I was on the verge of tears, but this is how I want my Nids. We don't need to rely on Psykers. Screw Rune Priests, and Jaws. I'm thinking base troops is now 2x30 gants, 2 Tervigons, and 2x20 Hormagants. One Crone, one Flyrant, and three Venomthropes with a Prime. Add Biovores, Gargoyles, Exocrines, Hive Guard, Zoeys, Haruspex, Trygons, Mawlocs and Carnifex to taste, because hot damn.
True, people are bitter for a reason. Warriors suck. So do Rippers, and maybe Stealers (the Horror helps them a lot...), and lots of units (FOUR) disappeared. And yes, we won't take the Bio-artifacts. True, the Warlord table blows. But really, strategic is by far the best in the gam anyways... We've lost what we wanted, but somehow we are coming out on top. I pick my book up Saturday, but kiss the meta goodbye. Nids are going to be good, I honestly think they'll be Daemon level if you do it right.
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Post by: Eyjio
Hive Tyrant
Hive Tyrant
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
Tervigon
Tervigon
Harpy
Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc
1750
Behold a terrible list! On one hand, it has 38 T6 wounds, 5 T5 and 120 T3. On the other, it has almost no shooting and autoloses to anything with flyers or the means to kill 4 synapse creatures.
...
I'm gonna go cry now.
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Post by: frankencowx
They are really pushing for those new models to sell.
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Post by: skarsol
 jifel wrote:Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper.
Better than 5++? Maybe in a world where Ignore Invlun replaces Ignore Cover.
(Just to be precise, they give Shrouded to units in 6", not Stealth)
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Post by: Zach
^ So dont use that list...?
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Post by: Therion
Silver lining guys! They'll be desperately snap shooting at flyers all game anyway so the BS doesn't matter.
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Post by: Shingen
My Spanish is pretty poor but is there anything about the prime being attached to Shrikes e.g. can you give him wings? Are they are option in the wargear / upgrades / biomorphs sections?
3x Carnifex with 2x Talons, Toxin Sacs, Bioplasma (if it can still take it) and a prime with a lashwhip sounds like fun. Especially with frag spines, you might actually be able to kill something...!
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Post by: Eyjio
jifel wrote:Oh my! Five years of Spanish class is suddenly incredibly useful! No special rules, but this clears up a lot. WE AREN"T SCREWED GUYS, ITS GONNA BE OK!
Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper. And Buiovores are now ridiculously good. So are Exocrines. Honestly I may not even need a Crone, because holy crap! I'm psyched. Yesterday I was on the verge of tears, but this is how I want my Nids. We don't need to rely on Psykers. Screw Rune Priests, and Jaws. I'm thinking base troops is now 2x30 gants, 2 Tervigons, and 2x20 Hormagants. One Crone, one Flyrant, and three Venomthropes with a Prime. Add Biovores, Gargoyles, Exocrines, Hive Guard, Zoeys, Haruspex, Trygons, Mawlocs and Carnifex to taste, because hot damn.
True, people are bitter for a reason. Warriors suck. So do Rippers, and maybe Stealers (the Horror helps them a lot...), and lots of units (FOUR) disappeared. And yes, we won't take the Bio-artifacts. True, the Warlord table blows. But really, strategic is by far the best in the gam anyways... We've lost what we wanted, but somehow we are coming out on top. I pick my book up Saturday, but kiss the meta goodbye. Nids are going to be good, I honestly think they'll be Daemon level if you do it right.
It's a shame there's an army with S8 AP2 ignores cover large blasts, which utterly laugh at venomthropes, as otherwise I'd agree. As it is though, there's too much ignores cover for it to be useful and people will just kill it immediately still as it can't join units.
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Post by: Shingen
skarsol wrote: jifel wrote:Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper.
Better than 5++? Maybe in a world where Ignore Invlun replaces Ignore Cover.
(Just to be precise, they give Shrouded to units in 6", not Stealth)
Shrouded is perfect based on the fact a lot of the ground troops have fleet so getting through cover should be a breeze (assuming the venoms can keep up but they should be running every turn anyway).
Venoms and Carnifex's in a combat would be amusing, Carnifex's would actually be able to hit first for once.
I seriously think my flying MC list is dead in the new codex, I am going back to ground troops all the way...
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Post by: Davor
jifel wrote:Oh my! Five years of Spanish class is suddenly incredibly useful! No special rules, but this clears up a lot. WE AREN"T SCREWED GUYS, ITS GONNA BE OK!
Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper. And Buiovores are now ridiculously good. So are Exocrines. Honestly I may not even need a Crone, because holy crap! I'm psyched. Yesterday I was on the verge of tears, but this is how I want my Nids. We don't need to rely on Psykers. Screw Rune Priests, and Jaws. I'm thinking base troops is now 2x30 gants, 2 Tervigons, and 2x20 Hormagants. One Crone, one Flyrant, and three Venomthropes with a Prime. Add Biovores, Gargoyles, Exocrines, Hive Guard, Zoeys, Haruspex, Trygons, Mawlocs and Carnifex to taste, because hot damn.
True, people are bitter for a reason. Warriors suck. So do Rippers, and maybe Stealers (the Horror helps them a lot...), and lots of units (FOUR) disappeared. And yes, we won't take the Bio-artifacts. True, the Warlord table blows. But really, strategic is by far the best in the gam anyways... We've lost what we wanted, but somehow we are coming out on top. I pick my book up Saturday, but kiss the meta goodbye. Nids are going to be good, I honestly think they'll be Daemon level if you do it right.
Please mind my ignorance. All I have been reading is doom and gloom. Tired of reading all the Chicken Littles out there. This is a breath of fresh air. How have Venomthropes became good? Do they confer stealth to others in a bubble? I just thought they got it themselves.
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Post by: B0B MaRlEy
Shingen wrote:My Spanish is pretty poor but is there anything about the prime being attached to Shrikes e.g. can you give him wings? Are they are option in the wargear / upgrades / biomorphs sections?
3x Carnifex with 2x Talons, Toxin Sacs, Bioplasma (if it can still take it) and a prime with a lashwhip sounds like fun. Especially with frag spines, you might actually be able to kill something...!
The Prime's WS and BS are shared with Warriors and Shrikes it joined, which is odd since there's no way to give it wings.
Bio-plasma is the same, but lashwhips don't slow enemies down so I don't know what your plan is
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Post by: Shingen
Eyjio wrote:Hive Tyrant Hive Tyrant 30 Termagants 30 Termagants 30 Termagants 30 Termagants Tervigon Tervigon Harpy Mawloc Mawloc Mawloc 1750 Behold a terrible list! On one hand, it has 38 T6 wounds, 5 T5 and 120 T3. On the other, it has almost no shooting and autoloses to anything with flyers or the means to kill 4 synapse creatures. ... I'm gonna go cry now.
Wow, hope you play against my Dark Eldar, I will be laughing the entire game. How many Gants will die Turn 1 when both Tervigons die.
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Post by: Zach
So the crone's tentaclids are 1 use only, but how many does she carry?
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Post by: xttz
Fexes with 2x ST, Adrenal Glands and Frag Spines (140pt/each I think) will move with Fleet, land D3 S6 Hammer of Wrath hits each, then do five S10 AP2 attacks each just before any power fists strike.
Throw in some Catalyst, a Prime and/or Venomthropes and that could be a winner.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Davor wrote:
Please mind my ignorance. All I have been reading is doom and gloom. Tired of reading all the Chicken Littles out there. This is a breath of fresh air. How have Venomthropes became good? Do they confer stealth to others in a bubble? I just thought they got it themselves.
They used to grant a bubble of 5+ cover save to units within 6". That has now been changed to Shrouded, which instead adds 2 to cover saves. So any units near a Venomthrope and in 4+ or 5+ terrain cover now go to 2+ or 3+ cover.
Venomthropes also got 10pts cheaper too.
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Post by: Sasori
Iechine wrote:So the crone's tentaclids are 1 use only, but how many does she carry?
Looks to be "Cuatro" so, 4.
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Post by: skarsol
Iechine wrote:So the crone's tentaclids are 1 use only, but how many does she carry?
4
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Post by: Eyjio
Hive Tyrant (wings)
Tervigon
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
30 Termagants
Tervigon
30 Gargoyles
30 Gargoyles
30 Gargoyles
1850
Man, that's a lot of models. Still bad, but I wanted to look at the extreme ends of the codex, whilst still being technically usable. That's 243 models all told and more that will spawn. Still bad but wow, you can get a lot of guys in. Synapse will be the real stickler in this dex, with only 2 HQs, more expensive Tervigons and a lot of the fast moving stuff removed, it'll be hard to fit a decent amount in. I dunno, this just feels weak next to the old builds. I suspect an ideal build will have 4-6 dakkafexes in.
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Post by: CalgarsPimpHand
Eyjio wrote:So, here's some fun maths about Mawlocs. Let's assume that it's managed to hit 6 guardsmen, who are looking to get splatted.
Wanna know the chance to mishap? 1-P(killing everything in 2 hits). P(killing a thing in 2 hits) is 29/36 (only snake eyes fails), so for 6, the chance at least ONE will live and cause a mishap is 1 - (29/36)^6. Or, in other words, about 72%. Yep, 72% chance to mishap assuming that your DS wasn't doing so anyway.
It turns out that the best defence against Mawlocs is to clump everything up, so that it almost always mishaps. Sure feels narrative in here.
Your math is way off. Just wanted to clear this up before someone latched on to it.
Odds of any one guardsmen (or any model with toughness less than 5 and no inv. save) surviving twice is 1/36, so P = 35/36 to kill, not 29/36.
So the odds that any one model would survive is 1-P^n
For 6 models, it's about 16%. Not the end of the world, but not the sure-fire trick it seems to be at first glance. Best defense against a Mawloc really is to bunch up, apparently.
Hitting 4 models is 11%, 8 models is 20%.
Within reason you're going to be looking at a 10-20% chance of mishapping any time you try to deep strike into an enemy unit, so be aware.
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Post by: jifel
Davor wrote: jifel wrote:Oh my! Five years of Spanish class is suddenly incredibly useful! No special rules, but this clears up a lot. WE AREN"T SCREWED GUYS, ITS GONNA BE OK!
Venomthropes are officially the gargs knees now. Stealth bubble? Awww yeah.... Seriously. Three, and a prime, are now in every list that wants to play a game above 500 points. Run them a screen for 3++ cover at least and watch your swarm run through cover with good saves. This is actually better than Daemon invulns, because the Venomthrope just saved foot lists if the Stealth is true. Plus, cheaper. And Buiovores are now ridiculously good. So are Exocrines. Honestly I may not even need a Crone, because holy crap! I'm psyched. Yesterday I was on the verge of tears, but this is how I want my Nids. We don't need to rely on Psykers. Screw Rune Priests, and Jaws. I'm thinking base troops is now 2x30 gants, 2 Tervigons, and 2x20 Hormagants. One Crone, one Flyrant, and three Venomthropes with a Prime. Add Biovores, Gargoyles, Exocrines, Hive Guard, Zoeys, Haruspex, Trygons, Mawlocs and Carnifex to taste, because hot damn.
True, people are bitter for a reason. Warriors suck. So do Rippers, and maybe Stealers (the Horror helps them a lot...), and lots of units (FOUR) disappeared. And yes, we won't take the Bio-artifacts. True, the Warlord table blows. But really, strategic is by far the best in the gam anyways... We've lost what we wanted, but somehow we are coming out on top. I pick my book up Saturday, but kiss the meta goodbye. Nids are going to be good, I honestly think they'll be Daemon level if you do it right.
Please mind my ignorance. All I have been reading is doom and gloom. Tired of reading all the Chicken Littles out there. This is a breath of fresh air. How have Venomthropes became good? Do they confer stealth to others in a bubble? I just thought they got it themselves.
Well, bear in mind I don't have the codex, but Venoms are now 1-3 but 10 points cheaper. That's a boost right away. Add to that, they now give shrouded in a 6" radius, according to the rumors. (I assume it's true, because the codex is in peoples hands clearly). So, shrouded is a 5+ cover, but also grants +2 to existing cover. So, throw Gargoyles in front. They cover most MCs, who have a 5++ cover, +2 from shrouded. That's a 3++ cover on anything near the Venoms, who can spread out, including the Venoms. Or go through terrain (with fleet and MtC all over, no big deal) and get that same 3++. If it's a ruin or fortification, then that's now a 2++ cover save. Naturally though, they'll shoot our Venomthropes. Attach a prime for added wounds and put MCs in the way, the new Exocrine/Haruspex, Tyrannos, and Tervigons all would block LoS to the Venomthropes. You now have a mini star with synapese, shadows, and spare wounds, for a cheap cost. I ran one in 5th and loved it, this is literally three times better than what it could do then. This isn't the codex we wanted, but it can be the codex we need.
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Post by: NamelessBard
Is there any reason to run Ravengers over Shrikes in this edition?
They don't have synapse, can't take biomorphs and have a worse stat line. All for the Beast over Flying.
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Post by: Shingen
B0B MaRlEy wrote:Shingen wrote:My Spanish is pretty poor but is there anything about the prime being attached to Shrikes e.g. can you give him wings? Are they are option in the wargear / upgrades / biomorphs sections?
3x Carnifex with 2x Talons, Toxin Sacs, Bioplasma (if it can still take it) and a prime with a lashwhip sounds like fun. Especially with frag spines, you might actually be able to kill something...!
The Prime's WS and BS are shared with Warriors and Shrikes it joined, which is odd since there's no way to give it wings.
Bio-plasma is the same, but lashwhips don't slow enemies down so I don't know what your plan is
Lash Whips dont lower Initiative anymore?
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Post by: easysauce
H.B.M.C. wrote:
You wouldn't want Tyranid shooting units that are dedicated to shooting and only to shooting and do nothing but shoot to actually be good at shooting, would you?
ork dedicated shooting units are also bs 3,
thats how it works in CC oriented armies,
your weakness, ie shooting, even on its best troops, works out to about average,
your WS, I, toughness, speed, ect are all higher throughout the army because its a CC army.
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