tneva82 wrote: Well they have only started working book 9 and gave initial previews. Woudln't expect release date being announced any time soon. Probably next year earliest anyway
According to Anuj at the event, a lot of it is done, but it'll still be 6 months of playtesting and 6 months of printing and shipping.
There was even mention of the Lion currently being playtested!
Whatever date FW tells you, take the ‘over’. It’ll probably be 18+ months. Malevolence missed its date after two years of time, and didn’t even include Dark Mech like originally announced. They make some great stuff, but it’s a small team producing some very ambitious products, and their track record with deadlines is what it is.
tneva82 wrote: Well they have only started working book 9 and gave initial previews. Woudln't expect release date being announced any time soon. Probably next year earliest anyway
According to Anuj at the event, a lot of it is done, but it'll still be 6 months of playtesting and 6 months of printing and shipping.
There was even mention of the Lion currently being playtested!
Whatever date FW tells you, take the ‘over’. It’ll probably be 18+ months. Malevolence missed its date after two years of time, and didn’t even include Dark Mech like originally announced. They make some great stuff, but it’s a small team producing some very ambitious products, and their track record with deadlines is what it is.
Oh I know. But keep in mind that they have gotten more staff in, and feel far more back on track than previous years, as you can probably tell from the Weekender.
I'm not going to expect it on time anyway, because this is FW, but they seemed quite certain on the way forward and that what happened with Malevolence was a very unfortunate series of events for them. So it's nice to see a more positive attitude towards 30k again. New FAQ in a month or so with some major changes, possible return of some FW paints, etc.
I had a great weekend at the event picking up an Ordinatus Aktaeus. Annoyingly the rules were meant to be given out at the event but due to a mix up they weren't. Spoke to the rules team and apparently it is a 40 capacity transport that can take up to castellax sized units, although each one counts as 8 models. You can use the drill with or without the Ordinatus chassis, without its basically a large drop pod that has an apocalyptic blast marker for its area effect followed up with 15 missile shots when it opens. With the chassis you can choose which turn it is launched, and the later you leave it the bigger the area of effect, up to 22" turn 7 while still working as a drop pod as well. Going to be a fun unit to play with, I'm going to need some more termites and the Ordinatus Sagittar to go with it and my existing Termites/Ulator.
My biggest takeaway from the event was from the first Q&A Forum with the HH rules team. The team is now three people and soley focused on producing one book a year. They will be only working on HH as well. Last year they tried to do Talons of the Emperor as a red book/40k codex but ran into so many approval processes with GW as GW made it clear it owns 8th edition. It seems to me that FW have given up on 40k... This was reenforced by Tony and others stating that there will now be tens of books more before they get to the SoT. Each will expand the legions out so sounds like they will be full of legion specific units, doesn't sound like a good idea to me as that must limit sales if only one legion can field something (see the new WS land speeder that I know a lot of people would buy if they could).
Much of what I saw for Talons such as the black and purple artwork for Custodies has ended up in Malevolence for the unified and fully updated custodies list.
Speaking of Malevolence the demon list on the surface looks really flexible and fun, being able to take models up to An’ggrath's size as a Primarch equivalent (they are around 600 points base). New line breaker demon will be coming to give demons some hard hitting offence. I really like that demons start of strong with +1S +1T on first couple of turns and slowly get weaker as the game progresses.
Looky Likey wrote: My biggest takeaway from the event was from the first Q&A Forum with the HH rules team. The team is now three people and soley focused on producing one book a year. They will be only working on HH as well. Last year they tried to do Talons of the Emperor as a red book/40k codex but ran into so many approval processes with GW as GW made it clear it owns 8th edition. It seems to me that FW have given up on 40k... This was reenforced by Tony and others stating that there will now be tens of books more before they get to the SoT. Each will expand the legions out so sounds like they will be full of legion specific units, doesn't sound like a good idea to me as that must limit sales if only one legion can field something (see the new WS land speeder that I know a lot of people would buy if they could).
Uuuh while book a year would be nice wouldn't this basically mean decades before they get to siege of terra? Tens of books, 1 per year...With BL getting to Siege of terra in few months seems like long wait.
Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.
As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.
Plausibly explains why Forgeworld rules for 40k have been sporadic. If the main studio is keeping a tight grip on the rules, they're probably either ignoring FW altogether or doing a slow rollout overtime. Looks like the Imperial Armour Index books are pretty much it for the forseeable future.
BrookM wrote: Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.
As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.
I dunno. I've never been that big into the Black Library Horus Heresy books. I've read a few of them and have found the quality sporadic. But, I love what Forgeworld have done with it and as long as they keep doing what they're doing, I'll be happy. Not forgetting specialist games as well.
For me personally the series has already peaked with the amazing White Scars arc as done by Chris Wraight. My only hope is that Chris has also been involved with the background sections of the White Scars in the HH book.
blood reaper wrote: God I hate the scenic bases Forge World produces for its characters so much. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate them. If the word 'hate' was to be engraved on each anoangstrom of every one of those scenic bases it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for those things.
They all look horrendously ugly (which is in part due to the tremendously mediocre painting ability of Forge Worlds new painter), but they're all clearly just stuck on to add to the cost of the model. The only good ones are those which comes with Horus or Angron.
I'm 99% sure that when they get to it, there will be a scenic duel base for Horus and the Emperor to recreate the classic showdown on the bridge of the Vengeful Spirit, probably with a dead Sanguinus added.
When it comes to scenic bases, at least FW has recognized they aren't loved and has made them optional for the most part.
I just wish they'd channel this effort into doing more terrain.
They're not really optional by any means. You have to buy the base with the Primarch, you can't chose not buy, say Horus, without the giant chunk of resin.
At least the character models themselves look neat. Sanguinus is however suffering form a horrendously skewed line of action.
the sanguinius model is actually really good when you see the whole thing. and the scenic base is amazing. its a bit of a scam that they make you buy it separately. i had the disposable income to buy the whole thing but it did sting buying it,
queen_annes_revenge wrote: the sanguinius model is actually really good when you see the whole thing. and the scenic base is amazing. its a bit of a scam that they make you buy it separately. i had the disposable income to buy the whole thing but it did sting buying it,
Huh so only having option to buy the full kit with base at the higher price is better in your opinion?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Put scenic base and people complain FW inflating price with price. Provide cheaper way without and people complain about having to buy base separately? Heh.
What is the price of Sanguinius combined with the scenic base?
Also, is Sanguinius removable from his scenic base? I noticed that in the scenic base his left hand is exchanged for one holding the daemon by its horn, so at the very least that would have to be magnetized. Is the base still slot-in like the other HH character dioramas?
queen_annes_revenge wrote: the sanguinius model is actually really good when you see the whole thing. and the scenic base is amazing. its a bit of a scam that they make you buy it separately. i had the disposable income to buy the whole thing but it did sting buying it,
Huh so only having option to buy the full kit with base at the higher price is better in your opinion?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Put scenic base and people complain FW inflating price with price. Provide cheaper way without and people complain about having to buy base separately? Heh.
my thoughts is that the £80 should've covered the scenic base aswell, as the older primarch models did. you can then always choose not to use the larger part of the scenic base. paying 45 quid for a base did make me die a little inside. FW prices are astronomical, and it bugs me that they seem to keep increasing with every new primarch. but I do like the products.
Redemption wrote: What is the price of Sanguinius combined with the scenic base?
Also, is Sanguinius removable from his scenic base? I noticed that in the scenic base his left hand is exchanged for one holding the daemon by its horn, so at the very least that would have to be magnetized. Is the base still slot-in like the other HH character dioramas?
125 GBP. I paid it because he was the only model I'm allowing myself to buy this year. the diorama base comes with a left hand built onto the horn of the demon hes killing, with a tube shaped insert to allow it to fit into the left arm of the sangy model, which you'd need to assemble without the left hand that comes with that kit. you could magnetize but I reckon the little insert combined with the base positioning would hold it together. I'll be building the whole thing together so it doesnt really matter to me.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: the sanguinius model is actually really good when you see the whole thing. and the scenic base is amazing. its a bit of a scam that they make you buy it separately. i had the disposable income to buy the whole thing but it did sting buying it,
Huh so only having option to buy the full kit with base at the higher price is better in your opinion?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Put scenic base and people complain FW inflating price with price. Provide cheaper way without and people complain about having to buy base separately? Heh.
my thoughts is that the £80 should've covered the scenic base aswell, as the older primarch models did. you can then always choose not to use the larger part of the scenic base. paying 45 quid for a base did make me die a little inside. FW prices are astronomical, and it bugs me that they seem to keep increasing with every new primarch. but I do like the products.
Sanquinus seems to be also wee bit bigger than say my Horus and his scenic base also seems bigger than Horus had. Ergo if it was combined package price would be even higher than just Sanquinus.
yeah, granted, the newer Primarch models are even larger. they seemed to start creeping up with Perturabo. Russ and Alpharius are markedly bigger than Angron and Curze for example, and Magnus is an absolute monster. the newer models also have more detailing. but Still, bumping the price by £20 for a slight size increase and a little extra detail?
the scenic base of sangy is about the same size as horus' ruined marble eagle. there is more detail in the demon though, and painting that base will be a task in and of itself really. i can see sangy taking at least double the amount of time I've spent on angron and morty (3-4 weeks each)
yeah their idea of inflation is way off. its getting to the point where my red line will be reached. theres only so much I'm willing to shell out for an (albeit beautiful) piece of sculpted resin.
Looky Likey wrote: My biggest takeaway from the event was from the first Q&A Forum with the HH rules team. The team is now three people and soley focused on producing one book a year. They will be only working on HH as well. Last year they tried to do Talons of the Emperor as a red book/40k codex but ran into so many approval processes with GW as GW made it clear it owns 8th edition. It seems to me that FW have given up on 40k... This was reenforced by Tony and others stating that there will now be tens of books more before they get to the SoT. Each will expand the legions out so sounds like they will be full of legion specific units, doesn't sound like a good idea to me as that must limit sales if only one legion can field something (see the new WS land speeder that I know a lot of people would buy if they could).
Uuuh while book a year would be nice wouldn't this basically mean decades before they get to siege of terra? Tens of books, 1 per year...With BL getting to Siege of terra in few months seems like long wait.
IIRC, their stated plan before AB's passing was for up to 25 books. So maybe not much change there. I don't think it's sustainable, of course. They've always been a passionate team whose reach perpetually seems to exceed its grasp.
Regarding FW possibly being 'done' with 40K, that was what I was alluding to after the recent custodes beta rules release. My Spidey-Sense was tingling that it might be a rules dump and dusting of hands in place of a Talons book release. Maybe it still has life though...we'll see.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: they mentioned a unit thats coming that could represent sanguinary guard, but nothing solid.
From what I have read, they stated that if you want to use the Sanguinary Guard models, then you should use the Command Squad rules.
BrookM wrote: Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.
As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.
This is probably the silliest opinion of I have seen all day. The release schedules for BL and 30k have little to do with one another. Which is how it should be. A series of novels should have a strict end point. A game should be more open ended. Plus there is a ton of stuff that 30k hasn't even gotten a chance to deal with yet. So I am perfectly content for the 30k team to go at their own pace and not worry about BL wrapping the series HH series up (and, even then, the BL teams has left the door open to telling more stories in the HH era, so realistically the door is not really closed, just the main story). .
queen_annes_revenge wrote: they mentioned a unit thats coming that could represent sanguinary guard, but nothing solid.
From what I have read, they stated that if you want to use the Sanguinary Guard models, then you should use the Command Squad rules.
BrookM wrote: Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.
As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.
This is probably the silliest opinion of I have seen all day. The release schedules for BL and 30k have little to do with one another. Which is how it should be. A series of novels should have a strict end point. A game should be more open ended. Plus there is a ton of stuff that 30k hasn't even gotten a chance to deal with yet. So I am perfectly content for the 30k team to go at their own pace and not worry about BL wrapping the series HH series up (and, even then, the BL teams has left the door open to telling more stories in the HH era, so realistically the door is not really closed, just the main story). .
All true, but personally I'd prefer FW took the same approach - get the "main plot" laid out in broad strokes, including the finale, then go back and fill in the best of the rest. The idea we might not even start to get the FW books to fight the Solar War/Siege for another five or ten years is actually a bit depressing, especially since my favourite faction(Iron Hands) was basically written out of the series fairly early on(the subsequent Shattered Legions stuff is less IH content and more the BL team berating IH fans for liking them), and my second favourite faction(loyalist Mechanicum) will likely only get their next big feature when FW get around to doing Terra & Mars.
When I like a setting I'll happily read/buy content I find to be "peripheral" to my primary interest(for example, I own and have read all the BL novels related to WHFB Elves, despite finding them stupendously unappealing in general, because I want to have as complete an understanding of that setting as I can), but only if I'm also getting the stuff I really care about at a reasonable pace. At one book a year, almost nobody will be getting their primary interest at a reasonable pace, and if that state of affairs is likely to last years & years with no real end in sight, I think that'd be more of a drain on the playerbase(ie, people who play 30K, rather than those who played 40K with 30K lists) than 40K 8th was.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: they mentioned a unit thats coming that could represent sanguinary guard, but nothing solid.
From what I have read, they stated that if you want to use the Sanguinary Guard models, then you should use the Command Squad rules.
BrookM wrote: Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.
As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.
This is probably the silliest opinion of I have seen all day. The release schedules for BL and 30k have little to do with one another. Which is how it should be. A series of novels should have a strict end point. A game should be more open ended. Plus there is a ton of stuff that 30k hasn't even gotten a chance to deal with yet. So I am perfectly content for the 30k team to go at their own pace and not worry about BL wrapping the series HH series up (and, even then, the BL teams has left the door open to telling more stories in the HH era, so realistically the door is not really closed, just the main story). .
All true, but personally I'd prefer FW took the same approach - get the "main plot" laid out in broad strokes, including the finale, then go back and fill in the best of the rest. The idea we might not even start to get the FW books to fight the Solar War/Siege for another five or ten years is actually a bit depressing, especially since my favourite faction(Iron Hands) was basically written out of the series fairly early on(the subsequent Shattered Legions stuff is less IH content and more the BL team berating IH fans for liking them), and my second favourite faction(loyalist Mechanicum) will likely only get their next big feature when FW get around to doing Terra & Mars.
When I like a setting I'll happily read/buy content I find to be "peripheral" to my primary interest(for example, I own and have read all the BL novels related to WHFB Elves, despite finding them stupendously unappealing in general, because I want to have as complete an understanding of that setting as I can), but only if I'm also getting the stuff I really care about at a reasonable pace. At one book a year, almost nobody will be getting their primary interest at a reasonable pace, and if that state of affairs is likely to last years & years with no real end in sight, I think that'd be more of a drain on the playerbase(ie, people who play 30K, rather than those who played 40K with 30K lists) than 40K 8th was.
I agree in so far as I think they made a mistake in not pushing out at least the basic rules for all of the legions as early as possible.
I do not believe the 30k crew were allowed (or at least did not desire) to touch the Siege until after the BL team did it. That way there would be minimal contradictions between the two in terms of fluff.
I have a hard time seeing how 10 more books are sustainable, let alone 15 or 20. It'd require a 10 to 20 year plan and a solid base of customers willing to stick it out that long.
Yeah, as much as the HH is a cool section of the setting, and as much as they seem like they've actually managed to make it pretty epic, the sheer volume of material they're putting out on a million variations on Marines is a bit overwhelming for a prospective player, and, with that many more coming out, I'll pass. The sprawl is just too much.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Yeah, as much as the HH is a cool section of the setting, and as much as they seem like they've actually managed to make it pretty epic, the sheer volume of material they're putting out on a million variations on Marines is a bit overwhelming for a prospective player, and, with that many more coming out, I'll pass. The sprawl is just too much.
I do not understand your post?
The sheer volume of material coming out? You find it difficult to keep up with 1 black book - which only includes units and rules for a handful of the overall available forces - coming out every 12 months (at best)? How do you cope with the volume of material GW pumps out for 40k, where we get multiple factions updated each and every year in the form of multiple campaign books and codexes? If 30k's sprawl is too much to cope with, then 40k's must be bewildering.
gorgon wrote: I have a hard time seeing how 10 more books are sustainable, let alone 15 or 20. It'd require a 10 to 20 year plan and a solid base of customers willing to stick it out that long.
Why would it be hard to think of 30k going on for 10 years? Warhammer 40k has been going on for 30+ years. The market and the company are not going anywhere.
Why does the fact that there is a known end to the story curb your enthusiasm for future products? Do you look at the Vigilus campaign book and complain to GW that they need to wrap this story up? No. Why do you want the same for Heresy?
I meant to try to catch up with such a sprawling storyline.
The way I "cope" with 40k is that I only vaguely pay attention to the areas outside my preferred factions. As far as I'm concerned, the 40k setting is so nebulous that I don't especially care, while the HH stuff appeals to me more as a multivolume campaign book.
Also, there's an opportunity cost in FW becoming "the Heresy Company" - they might be having issues making content for 40K because of Studio intransigence, but there are a lot of other "historical" settings I'd love to see covered. The Unification Wars, the Nova Terra Interregnum, Vandire's Apostasy, the Sabbat Crusade - depending on how close to "modern day" 40K they can get without triggering the folk at GWHQ pushing 8th & the Rowboat Narrative there are loads of interesting and epic periods to explore.
If they drag the Heresy on for another 20 years as their main product though, I'll probably be dead before anything else gets a look in.
If they drag the Heresy on for another 20 years as their main product though, I'll probably be dead before anything else gets a look in.
Well, there is a roughly 1/12 chance of that doing a quick 5 second highly *UN*scientific simple addition of the deathrates of those above 40 for the next 20 years based on 2015 rates.
gorgon wrote: I have a hard time seeing how 10 more books are sustainable, let alone 15 or 20. It'd require a 10 to 20 year plan and a solid base of customers willing to stick it out that long.
Forge World? Having a plan? lol
But more seriously, I do expect that many more books. Book 9 will introduce the last couple of factions to the war and cover their early campaigns. The Martian Civil War hasn’t been covered yet - if it gets a campaign book, that’ll be a tenth set in the chronological beginning of the Heresy. That’s kind of crazy. But what’s the advantage to starting to skip ahead after that?
I assume we’ll get revised rules after book 9. Then, maybe the Martian Civil War for new Mechanicum units, like Skitarii. Tallarn for a tank-based Imperial Army list. A couple of books reflecting the traitor legions’ increasing corruption. Imperium Secundus might need a book, otherwise the Blood Angels will only have been covered at Signus and then at Terra, which feels wrong. The White Scars’ coverage in Malevolence won’t cover their second action of the Heresy when they fought themselves to determine which side they’d be on. I think that’d be great - a small-scale callback to book 1 with its brother-on-brother savagery. Later in the Heresy, I’d like to see the Anvillus campaign, a great place to introduce a million Land Raider variants.
Between those and the Siege of Terra, I can easily picture 10 books, not including the ones for Adeptus Titanicus.
If the Heresy sells well (and I think some changes might be necessary for that to happen), FW should be able to expand their staff and their focus. They might end up in charge of all the old Space Marine stuff once GW drops the non-Primaris infantry and vehicles. That’d be a really big universe to maintain.
Yodhrin wrote: Also, there's an opportunity cost in FW becoming "the Heresy Company" - they might be having issues making content for 40K because of Studio intransigence, but there are a lot of other "historical" settings I'd love to see covered. The Unification Wars, the Nova Terra Interregnum, Vandire's Apostasy, the Sabbat Crusade - depending on how close to "modern day" 40K they can get without triggering the folk at GWHQ pushing 8th & the Rowboat Narrative there are loads of interesting and epic periods to explore.
If they drag the Heresy on for another 20 years as their main product though, I'll probably be dead before anything else gets a look in.
I never really thought about it but the Nova Terra Interregnum ends, like, 200 years before the Ange of Apostasy begins.
I think that is probably the latest they would be allowed to go (M35/M36), given how fiercely GW seems to be protecting 40k lately...
The way I "cope" with 40k is that I only vaguely pay attention to the areas outside my preferred factions. As far as I'm concerned, the 40k setting is so nebulous that I don't especially care, while the HH stuff appeals to me more as a multivolume campaign book.
25 books? Even that seems like an excruciating number, especially at the speed and price they're making them.
25 books (or any large number - tens of books, as the report said), to me at least, equals I stop buying them altogether, or only pick up the "important" ones.
People rightly lambaste the BL Horus Heresy series for spinning its wheels with endless story filler and whole novels about "Minor Skirmish 7-A". The last thing we want to see is massively expensive and super-slow releases from FW to cover minor skirmishes so they can sell a new set of shoulder pads, Rhino doors and a few new Consuls. It'd make every book like the second book of the Vraks trilogy, which basically boiled down to "Look we made a Reaver! We'd very much like it if you purchased a Reaver! Did we mention the Reaver Titan we made? REAVER!!!".
IMO it says a lot that when FW consolidated the entire Vraks trilogy into a single book for the second edition update it didn't really feel like anything was lost. Not exactly a promising sign for 30k...
gorgon wrote: Uuuh while book a year would be nice wouldn't this basically mean decades before they get to siege of terra? Tens of books, 1 per year...With BL getting to Siege of terra in few months seems like long wait.
IIRC, their stated plan before AB's passing was for up to 25 books. So maybe not much change there. I don't think it's sustainable, of course. They've always been a passionate team whose reach perpetually seems to exceed its grasp.
Regarding FW possibly being 'done' with 40K, that was what I was alluding to after the recent custodes beta rules release. My Spidey-Sense was tingling that it might be a rules dump and dusting of hands in place of a Talons book release. Maybe it still has life though...we'll see.
The plan as stated by the rules team at the 2018 Weekender was finish the legions with book 9, then look to reboot the ruleset with either 8th, further update 7th, or develop a new set of rules. That would then lead into a new version of HH with all new books leading directly to the SoT (which was stated at the 2019 weekender when asked as being about 3 books). We'd have seen way less than the near 30 books they are looking to now produce.
This is FW having its wings clipped and them only having the one setting to play with for 28mm for the short and medium term.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It seems so bizarre that GW would be "protecting" 40K from... themselves. Why are FW treated like an adversary or competitor?
This felt like GW trying to keep 40k balanced (as funny as the reality of that is) and avoiding GW having to manage the FW rules writing process for 40k units.
To be fair, FW doesn't have a large enough team needed to produce enough models for HH and 40k and Specalist Games at the same time.
Looky Likey wrote: This felt like GW trying to keep 40k balanced (as funny as the reality of that is) and avoiding GW having to manage the FW rules writing process for 40k units.
To be fair, FW doesn't have a large enough team needed to produce enough models for HH and 40k and Specalist Games at the same time.
Yeah that's rather funny goal seeing GW is the one doing most unbalancing to the game. The less GW gets involved with 40k the better it is for balance.
Garro wrote:you’re three units are the dawnguard, crimson Paladins, the ‘something’ tears, and the new contemptor-Incaendius; with 1st captain Raldoron and a new guy as your characters.
The Dawnguard are an elite jump pack unit with spears, they’re described as being a bit fragile but hitting hard and fast, so these are your glass cannon assault unit. worth noting that taking Sanguinius himself makes these troops.
Crimson Paladins are the guardians of Sanguinius’s halls rather than the birdman himself. they’re a tanky unit, designed to hold down the enemy while the faster and more fragile units close in, these are the ‘hard place’ to the Dawnguard’s ‘hammer’.
The ‘tears’, can’t remember the other bit of the name, but theses are a unit of destoryer like marines. they’ve have twin volkite serpenta’s and access to other nasty weapons of destruction. Sanguinius considers this role so horrible that marines are rotated around, and were sliver death masks and taking on new identities while with the units, not unlike Aeldari and the aspect warriors.
Looky Likey wrote: The plan as stated by the rules team at the 2018 Weekender was finish the legions with book 9, then look to reboot the ruleset with either 8th, further update 7th, or develop a new set of rules. That would then lead into a new version of HH with all new books leading directly to the SoT (which was stated at the 2019 weekender when asked as being about 3 books). We'd have seen way less than the near 30 books they are looking to now produce.
This is FW having its wings clipped and them only having the one setting to play with for 28mm for the short and medium term.
Well, I find that saddening. Not sure why they feel the need to hobble Forgeworld as, for a long time, it was the only department showing growth.
zedmeister wrote: Well, I find that saddening. Not sure why they feel the need to hobble Forgeworld as, for a long time, it was the only department showing growth.
Its similar to all outbound announcements, release info and now downloads having to go via Community now so Community can make sure its to "brand standards", "on message", and via their Community website to drive people to said website. Its why the majority of new stuff from the weekender was on the Community website before it was shown at the weekender as Community wants to be first breaking the news rather than a 3rd party at the event and potentially losing page views. Rules being owned by one team is just another version of this. As long as it is successful (and GW have done nothing but grow since they rebooted themselves) it will just reenforce that this is the right approach.
It is highly unlikely they'd go Great Crusade. If they do, it'll take someone with Alan Bligh's talent to really pull it off and they'd most likely focus on the most apocalyptic war - the Rangdan Xenocide. They wouldn't do Murder as that is, frankly, a backwater in comparison.
gorgon wrote: Uuuh while book a year would be nice wouldn't this basically mean decades before they get to siege of terra? Tens of books, 1 per year...With BL getting to Siege of terra in few months seems like long wait.
IIRC, their stated plan before AB's passing was for up to 25 books. So maybe not much change there. I don't think it's sustainable, of course. They've always been a passionate team whose reach perpetually seems to exceed its grasp.
Regarding FW possibly being 'done' with 40K, that was what I was alluding to after the recent custodes beta rules release. My Spidey-Sense was tingling that it might be a rules dump and dusting of hands in place of a Talons book release. Maybe it still has life though...we'll see.
The plan as stated by the rules team at the 2018 Weekender was finish the legions with book 9, then look to reboot the ruleset with either 8th, further update 7th, or develop a new set of rules. That would then lead into a new version of HH with all new books leading directly to the SoT (which was stated at the 2019 weekender when asked as being about 3 books). We'd have seen way less than the near 30 books they are looking to now produce.
This is FW having its wings clipped and them only having the one setting to play with for 28mm for the short and medium term.
I believe they said 15-20 or 15-25 at the 2017 Weekender.
And this is why a 20, 25 or 30 book plan isn't remotely sustainable. Both external and internal conditions can change yearly or even quarterly. And they're going to knock out a book a year uninterrupted for the next TWENTY YEARS?
MajorWesJanson wrote: If GW is doing the rules for 40k now, they really need to look at the FW indexes and update them. Especially Titans of all sorts.
I really don't understand why the main GW team cannot handle the rule side of the 40K things for the FW. The FW indexes were an utter garbage fire, and even if that hadn't been the case, for consistency's sake it is the best if each game has its own dedicated team that handles all rules for that game. FW guys can do the rules for HH and the specialist games.
zedmeister wrote:It is highly unlikely they'd go Great Crusade. If they do, it'll take someone with Alan Bligh's talent to really pull it off and they'd most likely focus on the most apocalyptic war - the Rangdan Xenocide. They wouldn't do Murder as that is, frankly, a backwater in comparison.
Agreed. Plus the xenos involved in the Rangdan xenocide seem to be reappearing in 40k, and would make an excellent new major xenos threat.
Alpharius wrote:That would be The Scourging, which while interesting, still doesn't hold a candle to the great good fun that a Great Crusade setting would give us!
But odds are we will see The Scourging, but not the Great Crusade, sadly...
The Scouring is a more realistic option I think because the xenos counterattack during the Scouring- they take advantage of the fractured ruins of the Imperium to regroup and seize lost territory. Therefore, we get both loyalist vs traitor action and xenos threats. Any xenos that survived the Great Crusade with enough strength to attack again following the Heresy are also the only xenos really worth caring about in a GC setting- they are the major players like Eldar, Orks, Khrave etc. As mentioned above, all the Megarachnids and Laer of the Galaxy are pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things- they only have relevence within the specific stories told in the HH books. FW will never make xenos models for species confined to a single world, nor should they.
So we get aspects of both the Heresy and the GC in the Scouring, with the added bonus that any new xenos are likely still floating around in 40k and could make entirely new factions, rather than being simply exterminated in the GC.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: The great crusade won't take off because there is no scope for traitor legions, and people like traitor legions.
On the contrary. It would allow such battles as luna wolves and ba together which was common etc
Not fighting against each other though. It is repeatedly mentioned how unthinkable the idea of Astartes vs Astartes is in the early HH books, and how it was such a shock to the loyalists. Therefore Astartes fighting must've been exceedingly rare beforehand.
Anyway, you could easily have a loyalist SoH detachment who have returned to Luna Wolves colours fighting alongside BA troops in the HH. There is more scope for that kind of thing during the Heresy, not less.
gorgon wrote: Unification Wars or bust. I think it'd be far more interesting and creative than either the Crusade or Scouring settings.
yeah the uni wars could be an interesting one to explore. lots of human factions, techno barbarians, thunder warriors etc. parts would be cross compatible from all the current ranges. and you could still have evil/chaos forces with the Ursh stuff.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: The great crusade won't take off because there is no scope for traitor legions, and people like traitor legions.
On the contrary. It would allow such battles as luna wolves and ba together which was common etc
against whom? random aliens? isolated human settlements which stand no chance against astartes? lets be honest, the great crusade is just background filler in which to cultivate the Heresy story. the opponents faced are irrelevant filler, except the Orks, which, although a mainstay of the wider 40k universe, still only a footnote in the heresy stuff.
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Red_Five wrote: I think the Scourging is way more likely than the Unification Wars.
But man, I would love to see a Thunder Warrior fight a Space Marine.
it only happens once (or possibly twice if you count outcast dead) in the lore.
Pre or post heresy I think there is still a lot of stuff to be explored and as long as I dont have to read about primaris or any of the terrible current 40k storylines I am happy !
MajorWesJanson wrote: If GW is doing the rules for 40k now, they really need to look at the FW indexes and update them. Especially Titans of all sorts.
I really don't understand why the main GW team cannot handle the rule side of the 40K things for the FW. The FW indexes were an utter garbage fire, and even if that hadn't been the case, for consistency's sake it is the best if each game has its own dedicated team that handles all rules for that game. FW guys can do the rules for HH and the specialist games.
I think historically its been because the main studio and FW didn't communicate. The main studio releases are kept tightly under wraps - heck FW team didn't even know AoS was going to hit until it pretty much landed. GW's internal protections against leaks sometimes don't work in their favour.
Plus there's likely been a legacy issue; FW was often seen as quite an independent entity within the GW framework. Off to the side doing their own thing. I think Kirby allowed that to continue whilst I think Rountree is bringing them more into the mainstream fold.
MajorWesJanson wrote: If GW is doing the rules for 40k now, they really need to look at the FW indexes and update them. Especially Titans of all sorts.
I really don't understand why the main GW team cannot handle the rule side of the 40K things for the FW. The FW indexes were an utter garbage fire, and even if that hadn't been the case, for consistency's sake it is the best if each game has its own dedicated team that handles all rules for that game. FW guys can do the rules for HH and the specialist games.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It seems so bizarre that GW would be "protecting" 40K from... themselves. Why are FW treated like an adversary or competitor?
Because GW.
I like how people blame GW when vast majority of nonsense is coming squarely from FW side. Who is sitting on finished Cyraxus? Not GW. Who "forgot" plastic custodes exist and made up their uglier, fluff-breaking versions of almost every custode unit while doing utmost to deny plastics rules? All while ignoring both custode art (which is nearly identical to plastics and looks nothing like resin...) while making both named custode HQs look utterly comical and ill-fitting in supposedly 'progressive' M30? Not GW. Who frakking started spouting nonsense about 30K BA (namely, that their iconic unit and their second in command who only oh, was acting Emperor for a bit apparently don't exist) just to avoid selling plastic minis? Not GW. Who peed all over late Alan Bligh's plan to move to 8th edition just to show middle finger to GW despite said move almost killing HH? Take one guess. Etc, etc. I have no idea why people defend FW when the amount of lies, lack of communication, and blame shifting (remember totally-special-pattern, not-upside-down bolters?) over last 2 years point finger squarely in one direction...
Looky Likey wrote: This felt like GW trying to keep 40k balanced (as funny as the reality of that is) and avoiding GW having to manage the FW rules writing process for 40k units.
To be fair, FW doesn't have a large enough team needed to produce enough models for HH and 40k and Specalist Games at the same time.
Yeah that's rather funny goal seeing GW is the one doing most unbalancing to the game. The less GW gets involved with 40k the better it is for balance.
Yup, and that's exactly why most of broken pay-to-win gak is found squarely on FW side, because GW is bad at balancing. Oh wait
Maybe you should actually read something FW put out recently, because they can't even balance game based solely on MEQ minis, FW books look like they were not only never proofread, but put together by illiterate Malaysian child over weekend (looking at you, FW Index...) with half of the rules either missing or being copy-pasted from past editions, point costs are broken across the board, either making units completely unusable or OP as gak, really, compared to that GW is whole segmentums ahead in quality and execution. Not even 7th edition was as bad as some gems produced by FW recently, with only material and availability barriers stopping resin spam making even 7th edition Eldar look like a weak joke. Why, already forgot how every single Chaos HQ was from FW or how FW thought 4 pts Elysians with native deep strike should also get regimental traits for free before GW was forced for the first time ever to step in and hit the nonsense with nerf bat?
If gw says at last minute to fw redo every rule no wonder it's nmt good. But look at hh game that beats crap out of 8th in terms of logic, fun and especially balance. Bb, necro. Both lightyears ahead 8th. At is even better.
Main studio is incompetent junk that doesn't even want balance. Pay to win? Always gw speciality. Fw units are more of err on side of caution.
Fw isn't perfect but at least they try balance. Gw intentionally doesn't as imbalance ups profits.
Fw interested in quality, gw from exploiting balance for profit and game balance can go to hell
The Lord of the Rings trilogy was adapted from 3 books into 3 movies; a lot of stuff was cut but they “hit the high points”. The Hobbit was adapted from 1 book into 3 movies. The former is a great piece of fantasy film, the latter became a joke among even die-hard fans of the setting.
Forgeworld’s should be striving to emulate The Lord of the Rings with it’s Heresy rules, and leave Legolas’ adventures in Mordor to the Black Library.
greyknight12 wrote: The Lord of the Rings trilogy was adapted from 3 books into 3 movies; a lot of stuff was cut but they “hit the high points”. The Hobbit was adapted from 1 book into 3 movies. The former is a great piece of fantasy film, the latter became a joke among even die-hard fans of the setting.
Forgeworld’s should be striving to emulate The Lord of the Rings with it’s Heresy rules, and leave Legolas’ adventures in Mordor to the Black Library.
This is sadly true, but hilarious(both Hobbit & LOTR).
If you want a discrete narrative, you should really go read the BL novels. We are playing a game. The game is expanded and deepened by the (mostly) annual release of a big campaign book. Just because you know the narrative of the game has an end point does not mean you should be racing to get to that point.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The Hobbit being stretched into 3 movies was ridiculous. I could've bought maybe just 2 movies.
It was ridiculous to split the book into 3 films but it worked out for the studio - the movies made 2.93 billion dollars. To be fair to Peter Jackson, he came on board way late in the process. Jackson spent years setting LotR trilogy up, where as he barely had a few months for the Hobbit trilogy. Beyond that, the actor's guild strike was also a huge problem that almost saw the production leave New Zealand, which is something Jackson was desperately fighting against.Had he been given the year or more he wanted to revise the script and set up the production, I am 100% sure all three films would have been at least as good as the weakest of the LotR movies.
MajorWesJanson wrote: If GW is doing the rules for 40k now, they really need to look at the FW indexes and update them. Especially Titans of all sorts.
I really don't understand why the main GW team cannot handle the rule side of the 40K things for the FW. The FW indexes were an utter garbage fire, and even if that hadn't been the case, for consistency's sake it is the best if each game has its own dedicated team that handles all rules for that game. FW guys can do the rules for HH and the specialist games.
At this point fw index armies for 40k are better off using an adapted Version of their previous list then the gakpile we have now that claims to be a index but in truth is just a pile of used toilet paper.
Formosa wrote: If gw did the rules for forge world we would end up with vastly over costed units in comparison to the standard 40k ones.... Oh wait, nevermind.
CA came knocking and demands a spike tax on your greater daemons.
Alpharius wrote: I would LOVE for them to do some Great Crusade books.
Back when the Primarchs and their Legions were all...er...good guys, and it would be a great way to introduce Xenos into 30K.
It would be awesome I tell ya, awesome!
Especially some Legion lists prior to the discovery of the Primarchs.
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zedmeister wrote: It is highly unlikely they'd go Great Crusade. If they do, it'll take someone with Alan Bligh's talent to really pull it off and they'd most likely focus on the most apocalyptic war - the Rangdan Xenocide. They wouldn't do Murder as that is, frankly, a backwater in comparison.
For something of that magnitude would it be better in epic scale to do it justice?
Most 40kFW index stuff looks like they are provided just for the sake of providing rules. However no one seems especially interested to see the point costs at any playable level, most are ridiculously overcosted.
But back on the general topic:
The supposed plan of 15-20-25 books for Horus Heresy is just silly, and I in general like 30k/HH more than 8th. To me this sounds more like a plan for some tv-show which basically is continued as long as level of profits generated is above certain minimum level, i.e. they will milk the setting as long as they can. So the final siege will probably be horrible rush job in the end, or alternatively we never see it because the setting is axed.
Ghorgul wrote: Most 40kFW index stuff looks like they are provided just for the sake of providing rules. However no one seems especially interested to see the point costs at any playable level, most are ridiculously overcosted.
But back on the general topic:
The supposed plan of 15-20-25 books for Horus Heresy is just silly, and I in general like 30k/HH more than 8th. To me this sounds more like a plan for some tv-show which basically is continued as long as level of profits generated is above certain minimum level, i.e. they will milk the setting as long as they can. So the final siege will probably be horrible rush job in the end, or alternatively we never see it because the setting is axed.
Honestly I wouldn't mind them doing so many books IF they did it correctly. In my view correctly means focusing on the major events first, then use the additional books as side stories/campaign supplements. For example, my ideal layout would be:
This year release the Blood Angel/White Scar book, and at the end of this year release the Dark Angel/Dark Mechanicum books (my understanding is that originally the two books were combined, so a good chunk of the work should be done and thus this plan should be viable).
Then next Year (2020) release a Siege of Terra book. This way it coincides with the series, as releasing it as book number 20 or something will just kill hype.
After that I'd envision the extra black books as things like the Siege of Vraks- important in the fluff but not crucial to the story so waiting years upon years wouldn't be a problem. Heck one or more black book(s) could add xenos as an expansion, as it's only logical xenos would still be around and sometimes get in the way of both forces.
Heck one idea I'd love is some special event campaign like the Steel Confessors one, make some planet and have the players decide who controls it, and have this either coincide with or make a black book from the results.
Ghorgul wrote: Most 40kFW index stuff looks like they are provided just for the sake of providing rules. However no one seems especially interested to see the point costs at any playable level, most are ridiculously overcosted.
But back on the general topic:
The supposed plan of 15-20-25 books for Horus Heresy is just silly, and I in general like 30k/HH more than 8th. To me this sounds more like a plan for some tv-show which basically is continued as long as level of profits generated is above certain minimum level, i.e. they will milk the setting as long as they can. So the final siege will probably be horrible rush job in the end, or alternatively we never see it because the setting is axed.
Honestly I wouldn't mind them doing so many books IF they did it correctly. In my view correctly means focusing on the major events first, then use the additional books as side stories/campaign supplements.
I have to say that this seems like a much more viable plan, if FW was to do this. And it's not like the black books haven't jumped all around the timeline. They still wouldn't get to 20 books (assuming books similar in size, content and quality to the existing black books), but that way you're not asking customers to wait for a decade or two before reaching the conclusion of the series.
As lovely as the black books are I do feel the format has become a bit of a millstone around 30ks neck. The softback versions of the earlier books might help. But even then how much of book one's rules content is relevant to the current game? Already book seven has large sections that are getting outright replaced. IMO they should pivot the black books into being background focused with the rules content just covering campaigns, missions. environment rules and other universal stuff. Keep the army lists and core rules in the smaller format red books(or even Index style softbacks) that can be updated at a quicker pace and at less cost to gamers.
GoatboyBeta wrote: As lovely as the black books are I do feel the format has become a bit of a millstone around 30ks neck. The softback versions of the earlier books might help. But even then how much of book one's rules content is relevant to the current game? Already book seven has large sections that are getting outright replaced. IMO they should pivot the black books into being background focused with the rules content just covering campaigns, missions. environment rules and other universal stuff. Keep the army lists and core rules in the smaller format red books(or even Index style softbacks) that can be updated at a quicker pace and at less cost to gamers.
The presence of new rules is a strong motivator for people to actually buy the expensive black books. Removing them would hobble the sales quite a bit. I would kind of prefer it if the rules and the fluff were separated into two books, sold together (like what GW did with the Space Wolf and Tau campaigns), that way I do not have to lug my black book around with me.
the FW paint jobs are rough, period. I get that they're not trying to enter GD but at least learn to blend a layer. Just compare those FW images to the new primaris reiver librarian paint job. There's no comparison.
I could definitely see myself using some of those bitz. The heads are kinda fancy and specific for my liking, but it could make for a good Chaplain equivalent stand-in.
Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.
Galas wrote: Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.
as much as i dont want to agree i must agree, GW has surpassed forge world at the moment, give it a couple of years though and I think it may balance out.
Galas wrote: Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.
Plastic technology has finally caught up with metal and resin quality, which is why GW's models look so good.
Forge World does not sell enough kits to justify going plastic (plastic molds costs 100k to create, which means you need to sell a huge volume to make a profit). Resin and Metal molds cost a lot less to make but require new molds to be created after a couple dozen or so uses.
Forge World is a premium product for a niche market. Could they sell more models if they charged less for them? Yes. But best business practicies will usually encourage those who create premium products for niche markets to sell high. After all, it is better to sell a product to one person for 2 dollars than it is to sell two products to two people for one dollar a piece (at least in a niche market).
Even if you compare FW products to similarly sized metal and resin models from other companies, FW is not THAT much more expensive. The real killer (and this is true of all Games Workshop games) is that they charge a pretty penny for models and then require you to buy tons and tons of models, so it is a double whammy - high costs for a high model count game.
I don't think gw plastic are at the standard of the detail of forgeworld resin yet. There's no way they could render sanguinius, or any of the primarchs really in plastic to such a high level. But plastic has definitely come along. The poses they can create are so much more realistic.
Wow. If Mantic had released this, they'd have been slated (by half the people saying these are ok).
GW's sculpts and paint jobs have been out of the park recently - even if they're not the style I like, but these FW offerings seem like GW are trying to get FW shut down.
Galas wrote: Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.
Honestly, until a couple of years ago I was badly tempted by Horus Heresy. I’d look at Forgeworld releases thinking their minis are better than GW’s, their art is better, their books are more of a joy to read. Since 8th Edition my opinion has totally reversed. GW have upped their game on all fronts, whereas FW just aren’t that good anymore.
I’m starting to think Horus Heresy needs a complete reboot, at least for me to be interested in it again. In the meantime, the only thing I got excited about from the Weekender was the Necromunda news.
Wow. If Mantic had released this, they'd have been slated (by half the people saying these are ok).
GW's sculpts and paint jobs have been out of the park recently - even if they're not the style I like, but these FW offerings seem like GW are trying to get FW shut down.
To be fair, I quite like the Deathsworn but I’d never buy them because Heresy is stuck with the old stumpy marines. Once I’d seen Primaris, I just can’t look past how horribly proportioned old marines are.
Yeah if the Heresy marines were primaris proportions they'd be much cooler. Fortunately I only paint the Heresy characters, and they're still a much higher standard than GW characters.
queen_annes_revenge wrote:I don't think gw plastic are at the standard of the detail of forgeworld resin yet. There's no way they could render sanguinius, or any of the primarchs really in plastic to such a high level. But plastic has definitely come along. The poses they can create are so much more realistic.
No way? New plastic Lord of Change pretty much matches or exceeds primarchs in all possible detail, on top of being much better proportioned (just compare his wings to Sanguinius, much thinner and actually wing-like). And that is what, 5 year old design now? Even plastic marines are way more detailed now, say actual vents on their backpacks vs square peg-like protrusions without details on most resin marines (this is really irritating as some of the more recent HH character minis don't even have detail plastic troops had a decade ago or more...).
Gimgamgoo wrote:Wow. If Mantic had released this, they'd have been slated (by half the people saying these are ok).
Would they? I have seen a lot of people here praise certain three bit "designers" to seriously doubt that. If third party stuff that garbage, ugly, and ill-fitting on 40K models finds purchasers and promoters (despite ruining look of anything it's glued to) then FW would need a lot harder than even upside-down bolters to actually change anything...
And to be perfectly fair, Deathsworn helmets are the best SW helmets anyone had ever done. Nothing GW made really compares, except maybe for that one old upgrade bit. Finally a helmet that looks like someone artistically skilled made metal overlay on top to skillfully mimic wolf skull, instead of just gluing random bones on top and calling it a day.
Yeah, the capes on the resin shield captain and valdor are big thick chunks of material, whilst if you check out a plastic shield captain or valoris, they’re wearing something that looks like an actual cape.
Galas wrote: Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.
Honestly, until a couple of years ago I was badly tempted by Horus Heresy. I’d look at Forgeworld releases thinking their minis are better than GW’s, their art is better, their books are more of a joy to read. Since 8th Edition my opinion has totally reversed. GW have upped their game on all fronts, whereas FW just aren’t that good anymore.
I’m starting to think Horus Heresy needs a complete reboot, at least for me to be interested in it again. In the meantime, the only thing I got excited about from the Weekender was the Necromunda news.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
Oh I'd say the wolves have got nothing but the short end of the stick.
Our preator is terrible, our terminators are garbage, our weapon upgrades have upside down bolters for fekkes sake.
Russ, wolfkin and the contemptor have been the only decent stuff we got up to this point.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
Oh I'd say the wolves have got nothing but the short end of the stick.
Our preator is terrible, our terminators are garbage, our weapon upgrades have upside down bolters for fekkes sake.
Russ, wolfkin and the contemptor have been the only decent stuff we got up to this point.
Custodes and sons both got way more love.
Wolves are mangey critters any year they exist, even when there is only war....and bad paint jobs.
I don't think this is a recent development; HH stuff has been hit and miss for a time now.
Most generic units are very well done; but a good part of the chapter specific ones are subpar. It started with WE Rampagers years ago. My personal low point was the Ultramarine line. A lot of potential for romanesque designs but FW didn't deliver.
That said, I like the Deadsworn but the Terminator is quite terrible.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
I think when people say “FW” they mean the Forge World resin releases, not the Specialist Games plastic stuff which is consistently excellent.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.
IIRC there are still new suits of older marks being manufactured. Mostly mark 6 and mark 3 (due to its specialised design), and anything older than mark 6 is in comparatively small numbers, but they're there.
Not in Primaris size, though. That's what Mk 10 Gravis armour is.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.
Chapters have large stocks of power armour, and such old Marks are honoured relics. As more and more Marines are replaced by Primaris brethren over time due to casualties, at some point they will end up with a huge surplus of older power armour. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a large number of Chapters trying to modify old power armour to fit larger Marines, especially those Chapters with poor resupply or poor connections with Mars.
Remember that many Chapters produce the bulk of their own power armour. The Red Scorpions, for example, use lots of domestically produced MkIV suits, because their Chapter forge has the means to produce it.
In light of this obvious fluff justification, and because many of the early Marks are popular designs, I can see there being a release of Primaris-modified versions of older Mks. Most likely in a kit like the current Tactical squad, with a variety of older Mks mixed into one squad. Could even be part of a Intercessor Veterans unit- the Veterans being granted honoured relics painstakingly remodelled to fit their forms, and meshed with the modern gear.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.
Chapters have large stocks of power armour, and such old Marks are honoured relics. As more and more Marines are replaced by Primaris brethren over time due to casualties, at some point they will end up with a huge surplus of older power armour. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a large number of Chapters trying to modify old power armour to fit larger Marines, especially those Chapters with poor resupply or poor connections with Mars.
Remember that many Chapters produce the bulk of their own power armour. The Red Scorpions, for example, use lots of domestically produced MkIV suits, because their Chapter forge has the means to produce it.
In light of this obvious fluff justification, and because many of the early Marks are popular designs, I can see there being a release of Primaris-modified versions of older Mks. Most likely in a kit like the current Tactical squad, with a variety of older Mks mixed into one squad. Could even be part of a Intercessor Veterans unit- the Veterans being granted honoured relics painstakingly remodelled to fit their forms, and meshed with the modern gear.
Now I have the image of Primaris marines in 1970s too short tennis shorts . The armor just wouldnt fit the framework of the Primaris marines. Why would they want to wear the old tech anyway with Cawl making things better with the new armor? Nostalgia? Basically I think they will just put the armor in the hall of antiques and hoarde them like my grandparents hoarded old National Geographic’s magazines and Tupperware. Sure the Tupperware was the pinnacle of food storage at the time, but nicer looking more effective and non toxic versions are better now.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.
Chapters have large stocks of power armour, and such old Marks are honoured relics. As more and more Marines are replaced by Primaris brethren over time due to casualties, at some point they will end up with a huge surplus of older power armour. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a large number of Chapters trying to modify old power armour to fit larger Marines, especially those Chapters with poor resupply or poor connections with Mars.
Remember that many Chapters produce the bulk of their own power armour. The Red Scorpions, for example, use lots of domestically produced MkIV suits, because their Chapter forge has the means to produce it.
In light of this obvious fluff justification, and because many of the early Marks are popular designs, I can see there being a release of Primaris-modified versions of older Mks. Most likely in a kit like the current Tactical squad, with a variety of older Mks mixed into one squad. Could even be part of a Intercessor Veterans unit- the Veterans being granted honoured relics painstakingly remodelled to fit their forms, and meshed with the modern gear.
Now I have the image of Primaris marines in 1970s too short tennis shorts . The armor just wouldnt fit the framework of the Primaris marines. Why would they want to wear the old tech anyway with Cawl making things better with the new armor? Nostalgia? Basically I think they will just put the armor in the hall of antiques and hoarde them like my grandparents hoarded old National Geographic’s magazines and Tupperware. Sure the Tupperware was the pinnacle of food storage at the time, but nicer looking more effective and non toxic versions are better now.
Limited resources (although nostalgia/tradition/honour is likkely to feature a bit). Not all Chapters are as well connected as the First Foundings, many are downright scavengers due to supply issues. Once Chapters gain indigenous Primaris production, they will need to be able to equip them, and this may require heavy modification of existing power armour. Of course it won't fit by default, but Techmarines have already modified armour to fit unusually tall Marines.
We know Techmarines are very resourceful with reusing existing components and splicing multiple Mks together.
Malcador and Valdor Tank Variants (Pages 48, 49, 50 & 90)
For all of these unit profiles, under the heading Unit Type replace "Vehicle (Super-heavy)" with the Unit Type “Vehicle (Tank)”. Note that the Fast type is still in effect where applicable.
Been out of the loop for quite some time now, but this feels like a nerf. I guess they were too good.
Malcador and Valdor Tank Variants (Pages 48, 49, 50 & 90)
For all of these unit profiles, under the heading Unit Type replace "Vehicle (Super-heavy)" with the Unit Type “Vehicle (Tank)”. Note that the Fast type is still in effect where applicable.
Been out of the loop for quite some time now, but this feels like a nerf. I guess they were too good.
Well, it is indeed, and if it applies also for their 40K rules in the next FaQ or so,
it sure sucks big time for my (already phased out and with poor rules) renegades...
Now only are they 5 points cheaper per model but their Axe-Rakes are now AP3 (they were AP6)! Also, they can be joined by Moriats and Chaplains (with Jetpacks)!!!
Frag and Phosphex Rapiers were nerfed pretty hard. They were Heavy 4, 3" blast, now they are Heavy 1, 5" Blast.
Now only are they 5 points cheaper per model but their Axe-Rakes are now AP3 (they were AP6)! Also, they can be joined by Moriats and Chaplains (with Jetpacks)!!!
Frag and Phosphex Rapiers were nerfed pretty hard. They were Heavy 4, 3" blast, now they are Heavy 1, 5" Blast.
As someone that was running a list heavy on those and Vorbak...that almost seems broken. That's how it feels at least.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
I think when people say “FW” they mean the Forge World resin releases, not the Specialist Games plastic stuff which is consistently excellent.
Yes, I mean that too. When I say FW’s Necromunda releases I’m talking about things like the bounty hunters and the head and weapon packs.
Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.
No, there are no Primaris marines in the 31st millennium. What there are though are space marines that are consistently described as giants in the background and a model range that utterly fails to reflect that.
Now only are they 5 points cheaper per model but their Axe-Rakes are now AP3 (they were AP6)! Also, they can be joined by Moriats and Chaplains (with Jetpacks)!!!
Frag and Phosphex Rapiers were nerfed pretty hard. They were Heavy 4, 3" blast, now they are Heavy 1, 5" Blast.
As someone that was running a list heavy on those and Vorbak...that almost seems broken. That's how it feels at least.
I think it puts them on more of an even footing with other melee units in other armies (like the Invictarus Suzerain).
Now only are they 5 points cheaper per model but their Axe-Rakes are now AP3 (they were AP6)! Also, they can be joined by Moriats and Chaplains (with Jetpacks)!!!
Frag and Phosphex Rapiers were nerfed pretty hard. They were Heavy 4, 3" blast, now they are Heavy 1, 5" Blast.
As someone that was running a list heavy on those and Vorbak...that almost seems broken. That's how it feels at least.
I think it puts them on more of an even footing with other melee units in other armies (like the Invictarus Suzerain).
Hmm, perhaps. I know for sure I might wanna play 30k again at some point with that same list, so I'm not complaining as long as it ain't considered broken.
Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.
I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.
On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.
I think when people say “FW” they mean the Forge World resin releases, not the Specialist Games plastic stuff which is consistently excellent.
Yes, I mean that too. When I say FW’s Necromunda releases I’m talking about things like the bounty hunters and the head and weapon packs.
Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.
No, there are no Primaris marines in the 31st millennium. What there are though are space marines that are consistently described as giants in the background and a model range that utterly fails to reflect that.
The size of the models was fine when everything was still in house and scaled properly. Then plastic Heresy models happened and everything Forgeworld produces now looks scrawny in comparison. I bought Kharn and some Red Butchers recently and was amazed at how tiny they are compared to my Calth minis.
These look quite good. Far better than the Space Wolf paints.
The armour's decent enough (bit bright for my taste), but a lot of the detail work is distinctly average or tonally out of step. The red in particular could stand to be improved and taken back toward the more purple end of the spectrum.
The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.
Overread wrote: The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.
I don't mind the corpse so much. It would look much better if it weren't so clean though, this is a piece of flesh chained up to a hulking war-machine.
Overread wrote: The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.
Yeah, I see what you mean. As for the reason for its presence? Previous pilot, with the Dread being liberated from another Legion?
Overread wrote: The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.
Yeah, I see what you mean. As for the reason for its presence? Previous pilot, with the Dread being liberated from another Legion?
There's an image plate at the back of Book VI describing this very thing. The Leviathan was originally Ultramarines which the Nightlords helped themselves to. The previous occupant was, ahem, evicted under protest...
They seem to be moving away from the previous very dark blue color for the Night Lords, which is unfortunate as it make the lightning pointless because of the lack of contrast with the lighter blue. Even the dice are darker than these models...
Overread wrote: The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.
Yeah, I see what you mean. As for the reason for its presence? Previous pilot, with the Dread being liberated from another Legion?
There's an image plate at the back of Book VI describing this very thing. The Leviathan was originally Ultramarines which the Nightlords helped themselves to. The previous occupant was, ahem, evicted under protest...
These look quite good. Far better than the Space Wolf paints.
that's not saying much.
FW and their painters either are hamstrung by upper mgmt or just suck. I'll always look @ the unpainted model before I make a decision whether to buy it.
What happened to the chainmail texture behind the hooks on power armour praetor's loincloth?
Did it get lost in the same place as the detail from the black lump on terminator praetor's hand?
I wish the previews would be naked resin now days, these paint jobs are atrocious and extremely sub par especially when promoting a new sculpt. It does nothing to entice you at all.
I'm not really impressed with that floating blob thing. looks like the sort of conversions you make as a newbie, like they just threw a lump of GS into a bits box.
You've answered your own question. For high end (and expensive stuff) like this, they should be getting the best paintjob possible to show them off, not just average. Fortunately the bare resin is much better.
And looking again, the paintjobs barely scratch average. Arturos especially, that bad white on the inner coat lining and that black splotch on the white is just laziness.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah we talk about bad paint jobs for FW stuff each week, but oooff... those are rough.
Yeas they are terrible, but luckily FW always show you the unpainted resin too. I wish GW would do the same and show pictures of the built models in grey plastic, not just sprue pics. On the other hand, I also wish that FW would show the unbuilt mini too so us converters can see the actual pieces it comes in.
I agree that the paintjob on those is pretty poor, but other than the carelessness (on the first model it even seems some of the metal colour has ended up directly on their right hand) I can't quite figure out specifically why they look so bad. They remind me of models where someones bought the entirely wrong sort of paints.
Aruros is a fairly nice model in itself, but the other two look a bit uninspired, really. That Wyrdlock seems to be just the old Renegade Psyker with the two back poles removed, am i missing something?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah we talk about bad paint jobs for FW stuff each week, but oooff... those are rough.
Yeas they are terrible, but luckily FW always show you the unpainted resin too. I wish GW would do the same and show pictures of the built models in grey plastic, not just sprue pics. On the other hand, I also wish that FW would show the unbuilt mini too so us converters can see the actual pieces it comes in.
It would be nice if FW did more 360s and parts layouts. And GW ought to update their older kits with 360 and sprue pics, not just the new ones
The paint job on these, I'd be fairly happy to achieve that result myself, but I rarely actually enjoy the painting side of the hobby. If GW is taking over the 40K rules side of things from FW, maybe Eavy Metal team should take over the painting as well.
If everyone painted to that standard at least, it would be great, but for that to be a professional paint job for Forgeworld is disgraceful. I've got models on the GW webstore that are better painted...
Mentlegen324 wrote: I agree that the paintjob on those is pretty poor, but other than the carelessness (on the first model it even seems some of the metal colour has ended up directly on their right hand) I can't quite figure out specifically why they look so bad. They remind me of models where someones bought the entirely wrong sort of paints.
Galas wrote: Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.
Honestly, until a couple of years ago I was badly tempted by Horus Heresy. I’d look at Forgeworld releases thinking their minis are better than GW’s, their art is better, their books are more of a joy to read. Since 8th Edition my opinion has totally reversed. GW have upped their game on all fronts, whereas FW just aren’t that good anymore.
I’m starting to think Horus Heresy needs a complete reboot, at least for me to be interested in it again. In the meantime, the only thing I got excited about from the Weekender was the Necromunda news.
Wow. If Mantic had released this, they'd have been slated (by half the people saying these are ok).
GW's sculpts and paint jobs have been out of the park recently - even if they're not the style I like, but these FW offerings seem like GW are trying to get FW shut down.
To be fair, I quite like the Deathsworn but I’d never buy them because Heresy is stuck with the old stumpy marines. Once I’d seen Primaris, I just can’t look past how horribly proportioned old marines are.
[/spoiler]
HH does need a reboot, but there isn't any good way to do it without chancing destroying the community in the process. When GW started releasing plastic kits for it, I thought for sure that the basic units would all go full plastic, and that FW would transition to Characters, Primarchs, upgrade kits and specialty units along side the rules and lore. But that hasn't happened.
The problem with these recent FW paintjobs is that the style is very soft and the shadows do not clearly follow the shapes of the model, nor are the edges strongly highlighted. Even if someone for some reason would like this style, it is not good for displaying a product one wants to sell, as it obfuscates the actual shapes of the models.
GW's sculpts and paint jobs have been out of the park recently - even if they're not the style I like, but these FW offerings seem like GW are trying to get FW shut down.
That's exactly it. I've no doubt that GW wants to get rid of as much of their resin miniatures range as possible. Removal of Forge World's 40k model range is the first step, wrapping up Horus Heresy is another. They'd much rather FW just focused on disposable niche stuff for marginal games like Blood Bowl.
That's exactly it. I've no doubt that GW wants to get rid of as much of their resin miniatures range as possible. Removal of Forge World's 40k model range is the first step, wrapping up Horus Heresy is another. They'd much rather FW just focused on disposable niche stuff for marginal games like Blood Bowl.
Well, personally i'm glad FW is doing characterful miniatures instead of million mildly different variations of ugly squat-marines and doors for their vehicles.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I agree that the paintjob on those is pretty poor, but other than the carelessness (on the first model it even seems some of the metal colour has ended up directly on their right hand) I can't quite figure out specifically why they look so bad. They remind me of models where someones bought the entirely wrong sort of paints.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Five years from now, and I'm sure they won't be doing anything at all.
Possible. I really never understood why they need to be a separate division in the first place. Why can't the FW team be folded int the main GW team and the models be sold on the main GW website along with all other models?
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah we talk about bad paint jobs for FW stuff each week, but oooff... those are rough.
Another FW release and another terrible FW paintjob.
In spite of the painting, I really want to work on Rumpole! Blobbity mcbloberson could look cool but I'm not sure just how much the model itself is making the paint look bad or vice-versa.
I actually quite like it. I think it's cool that 40k is exploring some of the more interesting aspects of its lore and its people; they're not all just musclebound and heroically handsome anymore.
The miniature is grotesque, as an inbred mutant psyker should be, and outlandish, as a Dramatis Personae in Necromunda should be. It's got a very Blanchian vibe to it, and I think it has a lot going for it. Admittedly the paintjob is not fantastic, but it's certainly better than I can achieve, so I wouldn't presume to insult it.
Yeah, Forgeworld genuinely needs to go with top-tier paintjobs, or none at all. The paintwork they're doing is damaging the impression I get of their miniatures in a big way.
And I say that as someone who paints about the level they've been showing of lately....and I'm saying that's nowhere near good enough to use as advertisement. They're hiding the quality of their sculpts under really mediocre brushwork. I can't believe someone in charge thinks it's an acceptable level to promote.
Those paint jobs are terrible yet again, ive seen smaller companies employ the services of better painters, dont FW realise that a wicked paint job helps sell a mini and im sure their paint jobs used to be loads better in the past!
As for the minis i dont mind them, the re-purposed Physker is a bit lazy but i like the floating blob apart from the hands on the mechanical tentacles but they are easily snipped off!
Good to see this thread is as predictable and constructive as ever. A new release is posted with a paint job better than what 95% of players can do, and all we get is the same old page after page of people whining about how "awful" it is.
Peregrine wrote: Good to see this thread is as predictable and constructive as ever. A new release is posted with a paint job better than what 95% of players can do, and all we get is the same old page after page of people whining about how "awful" it is.
You don't have to be a chef to know if the food you're tasting is terrible.
With that said, the paint jobs do the minimum of showing details while, well, painted. That's perfectly fine. You can't deny a couple of the recent ones (that crocodile monster one especially) were simply BAD.
Rayvon wrote: Mantic need Angel Giraldez painting them to make the gakky minis look half decent.
I always look at the resin versions anyway myself as even these gakky paint jobs are out of my league...
Saying that though, these poor paint jobs definitely make the models look a lot worse than they are and only serve to put people off.
Actually Mantic has produced some nice minis lately. Some of the resin minis are quite good. The new goblins are more sophisticated and better sculpted then GW ones.
Paint job helps a lot but not even Sergio Calvio could save these FW atrocities.
ghosty wrote: Admittedly the paintjob is not fantastic, but it's certainly better than I can achieve, so I wouldn't presume to insult it.
Unless you also happen to be a professional painter getting paid to paint display models for a multimillion company, then insult away.
I would never talk bad about those paintjobs if I ran across them in a tournament or something, painted by a random dude. They're decent tabletop quality at least and perhaps more. But as a paintjob to showcase these (sometimes) extremely detailed and (always) expensive resin minis, made for a niche audience, they don't pass the mustard. They deserve a degree mockery and insult, regardless of how well we consumers can paint.
Peregrine wrote: Good to see this thread is as predictable and constructive as ever. A new release is posted with a paint job better than what 95% of players can do, and all we get is the same old page after page of people whining about how "awful" it is.
With how ironic this post his coming from you, I don't know if it is genuine or a "joke".
I don't think it's that big of a deal, I'd rather look at the unpainted models for reference anyway.
What I DO think is a big deal however, is the lack of big releases. We had the weekender, but the new Black Book is still not out, and more importantly (for me): the new Dreadnought Drop Pod is not out either!
alleus wrote: I don't think it's that big of a deal, I'd rather look at the unpainted models for reference anyway.
What I DO think is a big deal however, is the lack of big releases. We had the weekender, but the new Black Book is still not out, and more importantly (for me): the new Dreadnought Drop Pod is not out either!
GIVE ME MY BIG BOY DROP POD
Reports from the weekender said the book would be March.
I think some people severely underestimate how difficult sculpting actually is.
It's not quite as simple as getting out the GS and magically a model appears.
Even getting flat or contoured surfaces is difficult unless you do it often.
Alot of professional sculptors will tell you that it's still not easy despite the ton of experience they have had.
The model is fairly plain looking, but I like that.
It's bloodbowl so these models won't have a metric ton of armour and accessories hanging off them.
Jackal90 wrote: I think some people severely underestimate how difficult sculpting actually is.
It's not quite as simple as getting out the GS and magically a model appears.
Even getting flat or contoured surfaces is difficult unless you do it often.
Alot of professional sculptors will tell you that it's still not easy despite the ton of experience they have had.
The model is fairly plain looking, but I like that.
It's bloodbowl so these models won't have a metric ton of armour and accessories hanging off them.
If course sculpting isn't easy. But nurgle stuff is very forgiving. I just dont think much of that sculpt. The hand over the rim looks good, but the rest doesn't really impress me.
Jackal90 wrote: I think some people severely underestimate how difficult sculpting actually is.
It's not quite as simple as getting out the GS and magically a model appears.
Even getting flat or contoured surfaces is difficult unless you do it often.
Alot of professional sculptors will tell you that it's still not easy despite the ton of experience they have had.
The model is fairly plain looking, but I like that.
It's bloodbowl so these models won't have a metric ton of armour and accessories hanging off them.
If course sculpting isn't easy. But nurgle stuff is very forgiving. I just dont think much of that sculpt. The hand over the rim looks good, but the rest doesn't really impress me.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: It's alright but nothing even a fairly new Modeller couldn't knock up with some GS and current nurgle parts..
Sure,
Lets see your effort then.
Sorry what? A little childish don't you think?
Nurgle is indeed forgiving to sculpting mistakes as they tend to fit in quite well.
This isn't the case here.
The surfaces are clean and well purposed.
The model as a whole fits perfectly and nothing stands out.
Being able to make a few mistakes and hiding them is one thing, but this model isn't one of those cases.
This model is still very far from easy to sculpt and it's far beyond the capabilities of a "newer" modeller.
I'd say that it's more for some of the top sculptors here on dakka (Navarro for one)
Sad it isn't new Titan weapons in either scale. But this is one of those cases where the paint job is well done, and enhances the model over the bare resin, rather than the opposite.
Re: ease sculpting, I agree it's relatively simple, but is it worth more to you to spend the time making one for cheap or to buy one and paint or play more?
I'm reasonably accomplished sculpting, but would usually prefer spending that time improving kits. If making my version of kits, it's usually trying to tweak things, like getting a new character out of a basic kit than trying my hand at blob monsters and getting the proportions right.
I'm not saying I would sculpt that, what I'm saying is that it doesn't really look upto scratch with the regular quality of forge world models in terms of detail. It seems a little lacklustre. I mean, the only thing that marks it as bloodbowl is the slightly less armour more football pad shoulder plates. Seems like a bit of a lazy effort. Other than that it's just a normal nurgle slug. It just doesn't look like it belongs in bloodbowl. How's that thing supposed to be effective on a football field?
queen_annes_revenge wrote: I'm not saying I would sculpt that, what I'm saying is that it doesn't really look upto scratch with the regular quality of forge world models in terms of detail. It seems a little lacklustre.
Oh, got it. Yeah, I feel like FW has actually slipped a lot in the last few years, and it's just less noticeable on more geometric/embellished kits. I think they've been pretty inconsistent, with a few solid kits and a lot of misses or at least unremarkable ones, which has become more notable recently with the combination of GW proper's better quality and FW's lazy painting.
Another week, another release that is not the new Dreadnought Drop Pod or Malevolence book. It's making me sad.. the model is fun though, and a great paintjob unlike the other recent models from FW lately.
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
alleus wrote: Another week, another release that is not the new Dreadnought Drop Pod or Malevolence book. It's making me sad.. the model is fun though, and a great paintjob unlike the other recent models from FW lately.
LOL. When was the atomantic pavaise first previewed? Two years ago?
These things will arrive when they arrive. Or not.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
That's like parking a Lamborghini next to a Ford Mondeo and complaining the Mondeo is trash.
For the sheer price difference and the fact that primarchs are part of the character series I hope they are better than a cheap model.
And to be fair, some of the primarch models put most thing to shame aswell.
Not really, it's about what forge world is capable of. I know it's only 1/4 the price of the later primarchs, but it looks more like something from a GW set to me.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Not really, it's about what forge world is capable of. I know it's only 1/4 the price of the later primarchs, but it looks more like something from a GW set to me.
Games Workshop are getting closer and closer to what Forge World put out, for the most part. Surpassing them, in some areas, lately.
alleus wrote: Another week, another release that is not the new Dreadnought Drop Pod or Malevolence book. It's making me sad.. the model is fun though, and a great paintjob unlike the other recent models from FW lately.
LOL. When was the atomantic pavaise first previewed? Two years ago?
These things will arrive when they arrive. Or not.
When was Bran Redmaw teased again*?
*Yes, I know there was some issue with the master...
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.
what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.
I keep saying this but the reason Robot Guilleman looks so weird is because Cawl went all Robocop on him; that’s also why Yvraine told him to never try to take his armour off – it’s armour all the way down.
The real question, of course, is what did Cawl do with the rest of Bobby’s corpse…
It's not even just the proportions though. The FW model is Guilliman - the pose, the facial expression, the armour detailing, even the often-maligned scenic base, it all contributes to a sense of regal, commanding reserve that perfectly fits his character.
40K Rowboat is just Big Action Dude Posing Onna Rock #72617, with ludicrous over-detailing and a face like he's trying to take a really troublesome gak. And also, yeah, the awful proportions.
The vast majority of the time model preference is a matter of opinion, but the 40K Rowboat is objectively a worse representation of the character than the FW Heresy model.
Yodhrin wrote: It's not even just the proportions though. The FW model is Guilliman - the pose, the facial expression, the armour detailing, even the often-maligned scenic base, it all contributes to a sense of regal, commanding reserve that perfectly fits his character.
40K Rowboat is just Big Action Dude Posing Onna Rock #72617, with ludicrous over-detailing and a face like he's trying to take a really troublesome gak. And also, yeah, the awful proportions.
The vast majority of the time model preference is a matter of opinion, but the 40K Rowboat is objectively a worse representation of the character than the FW Heresy model.
They're both kinda bad. Neither looks like a 40K model. They look like 55mm scale models that someone accidentally put on the 40K table. One just tries to be realistic whilst another is cartoony, neither of them belong. After seeing the new Abaddon I am more sure about this than ever. It is a better version of a 'primarch-scale' model than any Primarchs either the main studio or FW has produced.
Yodhrin wrote: It's not even just the proportions though. The FW model is Guilliman - the pose, the facial expression, the armour detailing, even the often-maligned scenic base, it all contributes to a sense of regal, commanding reserve that perfectly fits his character.
40K Rowboat is just Big Action Dude Posing Onna Rock #72617, with ludicrous over-detailing and a face like he's trying to take a really troublesome gak. And also, yeah, the awful proportions.
The vast majority of the time model preference is a matter of opinion, but the 40K Rowboat is objectively a worse representation of the character than the FW Heresy model.
I agree. I mean this in no disrepect to those who like the model but I can't really describe it in any other way.... the GW plastic version looks to me what a primarch would look like if sculpted specifically for a 7 year old. It's malproportioned even by 40k standards and is overly gaudy without style as if trying to overcompensate for something. It's the tabletop equivalent visually of the Playskool Galactic Heroes if they had extra bling for no reason compared with more adult black series of figs for the Forgeworld equivalent. Obviously YMMV. The new Abaddon model though is an example of how GW should have done the primarch so at least they seem to be improving somewhat recently.
I could see why people like the FW Guilliman but just try to imagine a reasonably proportioned human body inside of that powered armor. My dude has a Olson Twin body with a watermelon head.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.
what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.
Don't know what to tell ya, I have both and I think the 40K model is light-years better than the 30K one.
No issues there despite my misgivings regarding the model. Contrary to popular belief, people are allowed to have different opinions on the internet. Now... this Ultramarine is much more to my liking!
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.
what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.
Don't know what to tell ya, I have both and I think the 40K model is light-years better than the 30K one.
Fair enough, i'm not saying you cant have that opinion, I just don't understand why you would?
Mr_Rose wrote: I keep saying this but the reason Robot Guilleman looks so weird is because Cawl went all Robocop on him; that’s also why Yvraine told him to never try to take his armour off – it’s armour all the way down.
And yet he's without his armour for most of his 'screen time' in Watchers of the Throne and seems just fine. Chancellor Tieron even comments on it in his internal monologue.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.
what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.
Don't know what to tell ya, I have both and I think the 40K model is light-years better than the 30K one.
I guess that means he's quite likely to be released this Friday then, imagine I will pick him up as I want to get the scenic base which sounds like it's going to be a limited release, which is a bit of a shame as out of all the Primarch models this is probably the one where the scenic base adds the most to the appearance of the model.
Well you made claim. And i for one call bull on that one. Is it easy to make claims when you don't intend to prove it? But guess your replw proves you can't get anywhere as good looking sculpt.
Well you made claim. And i for one call bull on that one. Is it easy to make claims when you don't intend to prove it? But guess your replw proves you can't get anywhere as good looking sculpt.
No, you're trying to goad me into saying something like 'yeah I can sculpt' and providing a photo which you will then say 'see that's not as good as a FW sculptor' eg, being childish.
Im not going to indulge you however. I stand by my original statement, and disregarding whether I can sculpt or not (which you will now never know) ' you don't have to be a chef to know the food tastes bad' as the saying goes.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Scenic base is, so far as I'm aware, a Warhammer World and Event Exclusive.
Thankfully, some handsome, dashing idiot has a Facebook Group for that
I believe it will be available on the website initially, and then become an event\WHW exclusive. That was certainly stated when it was first previewed and today's post also says that the scenic base will be available for a limited time (which I'm assuming means online).
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.
what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.
Don't know what to tell ya, I have both and I think the 40K model is light-years better than the 30K one.
Fair enough, i'm not saying you cant have that opinion, I just don't understand why you would?
It's just aesthetics I guess. To be honest I can't think of a single model that GW makes that I would say I don't like. Maybe the old Warp Spiders? They look pretty bad.
Now. Something I will say is that you can definitely see how the 40K Roboute seems to share design elements with modern "MOBA" style video game characters. I won't say if that is good or bad or not, but it's apparent the sculptor took some influence from there for him.
I think its too cartoony if that is the case... I prefer the more serious, Romanesque feel of the FW style. I think they look better on the shelf.
Its also weird that GW seem to go back and forth on the aesthetic on things like that. The aforementioned daemon Magnus, compared to say, the AoS troggoth things, and even internally amongst the same range, some of the Primaris Lieutenants compared to them silly transformer looking jetpack inceptors for example.
I'm assuming there will be a greater Khorne demon posed to look like he's getting up from a waterbed to complete the diorama given Sanguinius' directional gaze.
It is a cool display model with a cool display pose and is just awkward and silly on the table top.
Unfortunately, they keep making the primarch models in display poses rather than battlefield poses. So good if your interested in buying a primarch to paint and show off and terrible if your intending to use the primarch on the tabletop and wanted something that looked like it was "there".
Primarchs make more sense as display models anyway. They don't look like Warhammer models and will look wrong on tabletop regardless, as they're done in completely different style.
Don't judge sanguinius from photos. You need to see him in the flesh.
Also, he really needs the display base. I won't be using that open hand at all.. Will probably save it for converting some other primarch model. If I didn't have the display base I would have to adjust that hand somehow too.
It's a $100+ USD model. I suspect that the vast majority of Blood Angel players like myself will only see it in photo form before making a decision as to whether or not to buy it. YMMV.
BrotherGecko wrote: It is a cool display model with a cool display pose and is just awkward and silly on the table top.
Unfortunately, they keep making the primarch models in display poses rather than battlefield poses. So good if your interested in buying a primarch to paint and show off and terrible if your intending to use the primarch on the tabletop and wanted something that looked like it was "there".
I suspect that most of the Primarch miniatures sold have been for display. Even amongst the Heresy players I know, all of us have our Primarch, but we don't really use them in games. Then there's the people with more than one (I've got four at the moment ).
BrotherGecko wrote: It is a cool display model with a cool display pose and is just awkward and silly on the table top.
Unfortunately, they keep making the primarch models in display poses rather than battlefield poses. So good if your interested in buying a primarch to paint and show off and terrible if your intending to use the primarch on the tabletop and wanted something that looked like it was "there".
I feel like Primarchs are display models that happen to come with rules. None of them are really well suited to battlefield use, even the ones with basic poses (like Lorgar or Horus).
Red_Five wrote: I feel like Primarchs are display models that happen to come with rules. None of them are really well suited to battlefield use, even the ones with basic poses (like Lorgar or Horus).
I have to disagree with that, plenty of them look fine in their gaming base, they aren't even Contemptor big:
Spoiler:
Its mostly the flying/jumping ones that look silly on the table
So how many more you need? I mean there is more, I didn't bother to link the sets that come packed with torsos. Also, FYI, pretty much all marine plastic multipart kits come with some extra helmets.
Red_Five wrote: I feel like Primarchs are display models that happen to come with rules. None of them are really well suited to battlefield use, even the ones with basic poses (like Lorgar or Horus).
I have to disagree with that, plenty of them look fine in their gaming base, they aren't even Contemptor big:
Spoiler:
Its mostly the flying/jumping ones that look silly on the table
The models are difficult to reasonably hide thanks to how much taller primarchs are (compared to normal marines) and the fact that they are all on raised platforms. Also, Russ hangs over the edge of his base by quite a bit, which is a real pet peeve of mine (not everyone finds this annoying but I certainly do). Alpharius is probably the best of the bunch but, let us be honest here, his base is also super forgettable and boring. I will grant you, they are WAY better as usable models than something like Cruz or Fulgrim but they are not really ideal either.
So how many more you need? I mean there is more, I didn't bother to link the sets that come packed with torsos. Also, FYI, pretty much all marine plastic multipart kits come with some extra helmets.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.
what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions.
If by "proportions" you mean "garbage heroic scale that makes characters look like children" then yes, they did use that, because 40K Rob actually looks like a strongly built man:
Spoiler:
Not only 1:5 head proportions make 30K one look like a kid, a kid with abnormally long legs and tiny torso at that. If that is good proportions to you, then I don't know what to say.
[Before someone complains head sizes don't match the minis, I scaled the pictures to the mini, if you take correction for the bulk of the armour both heads are same size as photos]
Both heads are a little off in either direction (in the 40k example exaggerated by the top-heavy armor), but I personally can't deal with 40k with those 40k legs. Like, seriously, look at that body builder's thighs and tell me RG's legs would fit in that armor, without him having tiny little withered legs and dislocating both hips.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.
I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.
what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions.
If by "proportions" you mean "garbage heroic scale that makes characters look like children" then yes, they did use that, because 40K Rob actually looks like a strongly built man:
Spoiler:
Not only 1:5 head proportions make 30K one look like a kid, a kid with abnormally long legs and tiny torso at that. If that is good proportions to you, then I don't know what to say.
[Before someone complains head sizes don't match the minis, I scaled the pictures to the mini, if you take correction for the bulk of the armour both heads are same size as photos]
40k Rob does not look like a strongly built man. He looks like a baby inside of a giant robot suit. His body is much too large for the size of his head.
if you want a good example of when 40k does a big model justice, it is the new 40k Abaddon model.
Yes. So glue on a primarch. Due their different proportions, their heads aren't really noticeably, if at all, bigger.
While that's true, the helmets are distinct. We know what Lionel's and Vulkan's helmets look like, and Alpharius is damn gorgeous.
Yeah, Primarchs have the opportunity to wear the fanciest helmets of the galaxy, ones that would a Dire Avenger cry of envy. If Lion El'Johnson doesn't comes with an helmet with the biggest feathers of the galaxy I'LL RIOT.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Both heads are a little off in either direction (in the 40k example exaggerated by the top-heavy armor), but I personally can't deal with 40k with those 40k legs. Like, seriously, look at that body builder's thighs and tell me RG's legs would fit in that armor, without him having tiny little withered legs and dislocating both hips.
Both of them would have pencil legs and arms with barrel chests and giant heads.
I think that without the fancy base, sanguinius really looks awkward and the pose just seems ridiculessly strange.
I'll happily pay for the base just so it doesn't look terrible.
Has to be the first time ive seen a base make such a dramatic difference in a model too.
there are exceptions... I'm a military man, When I'm on exercise or on ops I will be wearing my helmet. however. as a painter, the primarch models have gotta be unhelmed. its about the character.
Im surprised to see that so many people actually like that 40k roboute, I think it looks terrible and goes perfectly with the cartoon like kiddies story line that came with it !
Rayvon wrote: Im surprised to see that so many people actually like that 40k roboute, I think it looks terrible and goes perfectly with the cartoon like kiddies story line that came with it !
I think it is not bad model per se, but it is a bad 40K model. It just looks bizarre next to the other models, it looks like it is in the wrong scale. I guess it would be a great stating point for a cool daemon prince conversion though...
Rayvon wrote: Im surprised to see that so many people actually like that 40k roboute, I think it looks terrible and goes perfectly with the cartoon like kiddies story line that came with it !
I think it is not bad model per se, but it is a bad 40K model. It just looks bizarre next to the other models, it looks like it is in the wrong scale. I guess it would be a great stating point for a cool daemon prince conversion though...
I just don't think it conveys anything about his character, and despite what people have said here, the proportions are awful, the ornamentation is too cluttered, his pose is weird, and the fire sword just looks stupid.
Sure the FW scaling isn't perfect but its a lot better, and at least it looks like a regal, Romanesque character, like how Guilliman should be.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: the rule of cool clearly states that wearing helmets is not cool. if you want an example then EVERY holly wood action move.
That's just actors not wanting their face to be covered. And that's only getting worse (see the Mighty Morphin' Nano-Helmets in Black Panther and Infinity War).
Red_Five wrote: I feel like Primarchs are display models that happen to come with rules. None of them are really well suited to battlefield use, even the ones with basic poses (like Lorgar or Horus).
I have to disagree with that, plenty of them look fine in their gaming base, they aren't even Contemptor big:
Its mostly the flying/jumping ones that look silly on the table
#
YMMV; Alpharius is the only one whose base won't look too stupid on a gaming table, and even there, the rubble hangs over the edge of the 40mm base. To use them "properly" as gaming pieces, all those bits of "tactical scenery" need to go, IMO.
The models are difficult to reasonably hide thanks to how much taller primarchs are (compared to normal marines) and the fact that they are all on raised platforms. Also, Russ hangs over the edge of his base by quite a bit, which is a real pet peeve of mine (not everyone finds this annoying but I certainly do). Alpharius is probably the best of the bunch but, let us be honest here, his base is also super forgettable and boring. I will grant you, they are WAY better as usable models than something like Cruz or Fulgrim but they are not really ideal either.
Give and take, I suppose.
If you don't like 'em you don't like 'em.
However they should be much taller than normal marines as they are so in the fluff and in the rules they are bulky, think Castellax in size. If a bulky model was the same height and width as a normal marine I'd be complaining. They are also going to be eye catching on the battlefield in the fluff (baring Corax or Curze being stealthy) so that they can be seen would reflect their priority target nature in the fluff. The jumping/flying/giant gaming base ones are terrible though, they make the model taller than just about everything else on the table.
The base underneath is accessible for all Primarchs that I have seen, so you can always measure them to/from the actual base size. As for the small base topper for the gaming base boring, super hard to put an actual interesting base into that small a plastic base that works with the larger scenery base as detachable and keep it interesting as a base in itself. Personally as long as the scenic base is good I'm not bothered about the gaming base outside of disliking the flying/jumping ones I've seen so far.
You always have the option of putting them on a normal base without their scenery if the cm or so of extra height bothers you that much.
It's not the height, as such - it's wondering why Leman Russ is carrying that one bit of rubble around an otherwise empty battlefield with him.
The ever-increasing size of Primarchs makes things like the Talon of Horus, Wolf Helm of Russ and the Lion Helm (and other Relics that are bits of Primarchs' armour or weapons) increasingly ridiculous.
AndrewGPaul wrote: It's not the height, as such - it's wondering why Leman Russ is carrying that one bit of rubble around an otherwise empty battlefield with him.
The ever-increasing size of Primarchs makes things like the Talon of Horus, Wolf Helm of Russ and the Lion Helm (and other Relics that are bits of Primarchs' armour or weapons) increasingly ridiculous.
But that applies to just about all fancy bases, even 3rd party ones. Very easy to just stick your primarch on a normal base if it bothers you that much.
Wasn't Horus one of the very first Primarch to be released? So its not weapon size creep but more to do with GW's Abaddon model. I'd be more bothered that his armour makes him look like a giant egg, just make sure he doesn't sit on any walls.
AndrewGPaul wrote: It's not the height, as such - it's wondering why Leman Russ is carrying that one bit of rubble around an otherwise empty battlefield with him.
The ever-increasing size of Primarchs makes things like the Talon of Horus, Wolf Helm of Russ and the Lion Helm (and other Relics that are bits of Primarchs' armour or weapons) increasingly ridiculous.
Well I’d never looked at Guilliman in so much detail till this thread..
I’d say 40k, now I’ve noticed the legs, yeah hard to unsee them.
Heads are both ok, yeah perhaps small.
With helmets on. They both look a lot better.
(And 40k’s armour, well I’ve seen a few where it’s not painted like GW’s one and it really helps the model.
There’s an all good one, a dark deep wash one over those colours, and I think I saw a mostly blue one.
It's the ornate gilding on him that’s so bright in the new armour, I think that makes him just look too busy..)
Wow, Sanguinius' pose looks even more awkward and silly from head on. He goes from surfer dude to lord of the dance.
Is that because it's missing the other half to give context?
If the model's pose requires a non-functional display base to not look dumb, then maybe it should have a different pose. If I wanted a statue diorama, I'd buy one I didn't need to paint myself.
Yep, that's a damn tragedy with regard to that model. Completely sacrificed the gaming miniature to make half of an art piece...really ignorant in my opinion.
Wow, Sanguinius' pose looks even more awkward and silly from head on. He goes from surfer dude to lord of the dance.
Is that because it's missing the other half to give context?
If the model's pose requires a non-functional display base to not look dumb, then maybe it should have a different pose. If I wanted a statue diorama, I'd buy one I didn't need to paint myself.
Its definitely more of an art piece. which is great for me, as I like to paint pieces of art for my home. I could see how that could be annoying for gamers, but surely its not that big a deal? I mean, with his elevated position, once he gets into melee combat it will look like he's coming down on his opponent?
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Why does everyone get a rage on about primarch helmets? They're supposed to be centre piece models.
Rule of cool?
the rule of cool clearly states that wearing helmets is not cool. if you want an example then EVERY holly wood action move.
Judge Dredd is cooler than most action movie heroes.
true, but his lid is more for creating the sense of cold detachment than protection. The faceless embodiment of justice..his face isnt the character, unlike the primarchs.
think he looks epic. They all do aaprt form world bearers primarch who looks like a chum and horus is a bit less tocky than ive come to expect from old artwork. Still. Id happily buy them all if I had the money to paint over the years.