Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/03 21:34:00


Post by: Not Online!!!


 BrookM wrote:
More Solar Auxilia!

No..?

Okay.



What were you expecting, it ain't marines or Titans.

Same with all their 40k regular stuff.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/03 23:03:55


Post by: BaronIveagh


 BrookM wrote:
More Solar Auxilia!



There is no problem which cannot be solved with additional regiments of guardsman.

Spoiler:




Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 00:53:09


Post by: gorgon


 Darkwrath121 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well they have only started working book 9 and gave initial previews. Woudln't expect release date being announced any time soon. Probably next year earliest anyway

According to Anuj at the event, a lot of it is done, but it'll still be 6 months of playtesting and 6 months of printing and shipping.

There was even mention of the Lion currently being playtested!


Whatever date FW tells you, take the ‘over’. It’ll probably be 18+ months. Malevolence missed its date after two years of time, and didn’t even include Dark Mech like originally announced. They make some great stuff, but it’s a small team producing some very ambitious products, and their track record with deadlines is what it is.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 01:48:03


Post by: Darkwrath121


 gorgon wrote:
 Darkwrath121 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well they have only started working book 9 and gave initial previews. Woudln't expect release date being announced any time soon. Probably next year earliest anyway

According to Anuj at the event, a lot of it is done, but it'll still be 6 months of playtesting and 6 months of printing and shipping.

There was even mention of the Lion currently being playtested!


Whatever date FW tells you, take the ‘over’. It’ll probably be 18+ months. Malevolence missed its date after two years of time, and didn’t even include Dark Mech like originally announced. They make some great stuff, but it’s a small team producing some very ambitious products, and their track record with deadlines is what it is.

Oh I know. But keep in mind that they have gotten more staff in, and feel far more back on track than previous years, as you can probably tell from the Weekender.

I'm not going to expect it on time anyway, because this is FW, but they seemed quite certain on the way forward and that what happened with Malevolence was a very unfortunate series of events for them. So it's nice to see a more positive attitude towards 30k again. New FAQ in a month or so with some major changes, possible return of some FW paints, etc.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 08:55:21


Post by: Looky Likey


I had a great weekend at the event picking up an Ordinatus Aktaeus. Annoyingly the rules were meant to be given out at the event but due to a mix up they weren't. Spoke to the rules team and apparently it is a 40 capacity transport that can take up to castellax sized units, although each one counts as 8 models. You can use the drill with or without the Ordinatus chassis, without its basically a large drop pod that has an apocalyptic blast marker for its area effect followed up with 15 missile shots when it opens. With the chassis you can choose which turn it is launched, and the later you leave it the bigger the area of effect, up to 22" turn 7 while still working as a drop pod as well. Going to be a fun unit to play with, I'm going to need some more termites and the Ordinatus Sagittar to go with it and my existing Termites/Ulator.

My biggest takeaway from the event was from the first Q&A Forum with the HH rules team. The team is now three people and soley focused on producing one book a year. They will be only working on HH as well. Last year they tried to do Talons of the Emperor as a red book/40k codex but ran into so many approval processes with GW as GW made it clear it owns 8th edition. It seems to me that FW have given up on 40k... This was reenforced by Tony and others stating that there will now be tens of books more before they get to the SoT. Each will expand the legions out so sounds like they will be full of legion specific units, doesn't sound like a good idea to me as that must limit sales if only one legion can field something (see the new WS land speeder that I know a lot of people would buy if they could).

Much of what I saw for Talons such as the black and purple artwork for Custodies has ended up in Malevolence for the unified and fully updated custodies list.

Speaking of Malevolence the demon list on the surface looks really flexible and fun, being able to take models up to An’ggrath's size as a Primarch equivalent (they are around 600 points base). New line breaker demon will be coming to give demons some hard hitting offence. I really like that demons start of strong with +1S +1T on first couple of turns and slowly get weaker as the game progresses.




Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 09:13:31


Post by: tneva82


 Looky Likey wrote:
My biggest takeaway from the event was from the first Q&A Forum with the HH rules team. The team is now three people and soley focused on producing one book a year. They will be only working on HH as well. Last year they tried to do Talons of the Emperor as a red book/40k codex but ran into so many approval processes with GW as GW made it clear it owns 8th edition. It seems to me that FW have given up on 40k... This was reenforced by Tony and others stating that there will now be tens of books more before they get to the SoT. Each will expand the legions out so sounds like they will be full of legion specific units, doesn't sound like a good idea to me as that must limit sales if only one legion can field something (see the new WS land speeder that I know a lot of people would buy if they could).



Uuuh while book a year would be nice wouldn't this basically mean decades before they get to siege of terra? Tens of books, 1 per year...With BL getting to Siege of terra in few months seems like long wait.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 09:17:33


Post by: BrookM


Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.

As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 09:27:05


Post by: zedmeister


Plausibly explains why Forgeworld rules for 40k have been sporadic. If the main studio is keeping a tight grip on the rules, they're probably either ignoring FW altogether or doing a slow rollout overtime. Looks like the Imperial Armour Index books are pretty much it for the forseeable future.

 BrookM wrote:
Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.

As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.


I dunno. I've never been that big into the Black Library Horus Heresy books. I've read a few of them and have found the quality sporadic. But, I love what Forgeworld have done with it and as long as they keep doing what they're doing, I'll be happy. Not forgetting specialist games as well.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 09:32:29


Post by: BrookM


For me personally the series has already peaked with the amazing White Scars arc as done by Chris Wraight. My only hope is that Chris has also been involved with the background sections of the White Scars in the HH book.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 09:41:52


Post by: zedmeister


More of the Mole:






Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 09:48:47


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Looky Likey wrote:
... Tony and others stating that there will now be tens of books more before they get to the SoT.
Did they learn nothing from Black Library?



Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 10:33:26


Post by: Agamemnon2


At their current rate, they're going to start losing 30k gamers to old age before they're caught up to Siege of Terra.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 10:41:44


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


 blood reaper wrote:
Spoiler:
 aka_mythos wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 blood reaper wrote:
God I hate the scenic bases Forge World produces for its characters so much. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate them. If the word 'hate' was to be engraved on each anoangstrom of every one of those scenic bases it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for those things.

They all look horrendously ugly (which is in part due to the tremendously mediocre painting ability of Forge Worlds new painter), but they're all clearly just stuck on to add to the cost of the model. The only good ones are those which comes with Horus or Angron.


I'm 99% sure that when they get to it, there will be a scenic duel base for Horus and the Emperor to recreate the classic showdown on the bridge of the Vengeful Spirit, probably with a dead Sanguinus added.

When it comes to scenic bases, at least FW has recognized they aren't loved and has made them optional for the most part.
I just wish they'd channel this effort into doing more terrain.


They're not really optional by any means. You have to buy the base with the Primarch, you can't chose not buy, say Horus, without the giant chunk of resin.

At least the character models themselves look neat. Sanguinus is however suffering form a horrendously skewed line of action.


the sanguinius model is actually really good when you see the whole thing. and the scenic base is amazing. its a bit of a scam that they make you buy it separately. i had the disposable income to buy the whole thing but it did sting buying it,


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 10:46:17


Post by: tneva82


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
the sanguinius model is actually really good when you see the whole thing. and the scenic base is amazing. its a bit of a scam that they make you buy it separately. i had the disposable income to buy the whole thing but it did sting buying it,


Huh so only having option to buy the full kit with base at the higher price is better in your opinion?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Put scenic base and people complain FW inflating price with price. Provide cheaper way without and people complain about having to buy base separately? Heh.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 10:50:01


Post by: Redemption


What is the price of Sanguinius combined with the scenic base?

Also, is Sanguinius removable from his scenic base? I noticed that in the scenic base his left hand is exchanged for one holding the daemon by its horn, so at the very least that would have to be magnetized. Is the base still slot-in like the other HH character dioramas?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 10:52:18


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


tneva82 wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
the sanguinius model is actually really good when you see the whole thing. and the scenic base is amazing. its a bit of a scam that they make you buy it separately. i had the disposable income to buy the whole thing but it did sting buying it,


Huh so only having option to buy the full kit with base at the higher price is better in your opinion?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Put scenic base and people complain FW inflating price with price. Provide cheaper way without and people complain about having to buy base separately? Heh.


my thoughts is that the £80 should've covered the scenic base aswell, as the older primarch models did. you can then always choose not to use the larger part of the scenic base. paying 45 quid for a base did make me die a little inside. FW prices are astronomical, and it bugs me that they seem to keep increasing with every new primarch. but I do like the products.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 10:56:46


Post by: Redemption


Ouch, so £125 or €155 like the Mechanicus Questoris Knights then.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 10:56:52


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


 Redemption wrote:
What is the price of Sanguinius combined with the scenic base?

Also, is Sanguinius removable from his scenic base? I noticed that in the scenic base his left hand is exchanged for one holding the daemon by its horn, so at the very least that would have to be magnetized. Is the base still slot-in like the other HH character dioramas?


125 GBP. I paid it because he was the only model I'm allowing myself to buy this year. the diorama base comes with a left hand built onto the horn of the demon hes killing, with a tube shaped insert to allow it to fit into the left arm of the sangy model, which you'd need to assemble without the left hand that comes with that kit. you could magnetize but I reckon the little insert combined with the base positioning would hold it together. I'll be building the whole thing together so it doesnt really matter to me.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 11:05:51


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Wait, so Sanguinius costs as much without the scenic base as the others do with the scenic bases?

Yeah. Sounds about right.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 11:08:31


Post by: tneva82


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
the sanguinius model is actually really good when you see the whole thing. and the scenic base is amazing. its a bit of a scam that they make you buy it separately. i had the disposable income to buy the whole thing but it did sting buying it,


Huh so only having option to buy the full kit with base at the higher price is better in your opinion?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Put scenic base and people complain FW inflating price with price. Provide cheaper way without and people complain about having to buy base separately? Heh.


my thoughts is that the £80 should've covered the scenic base aswell, as the older primarch models did. you can then always choose not to use the larger part of the scenic base. paying 45 quid for a base did make me die a little inside. FW prices are astronomical, and it bugs me that they seem to keep increasing with every new primarch. but I do like the products.


Sanquinus seems to be also wee bit bigger than say my Horus and his scenic base also seems bigger than Horus had. Ergo if it was combined package price would be even higher than just Sanquinus.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 11:25:05


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


yeah, granted, the newer Primarch models are even larger. they seemed to start creeping up with Perturabo. Russ and Alpharius are markedly bigger than Angron and Curze for example, and Magnus is an absolute monster. the newer models also have more detailing. but Still, bumping the price by £20 for a slight size increase and a little extra detail?

the scenic base of sangy is about the same size as horus' ruined marble eagle. there is more detail in the demon though, and painting that base will be a task in and of itself really. i can see sangy taking at least double the amount of time I've spent on angron and morty (3-4 weeks each)


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 11:43:44


Post by: Vorian


GW also raises prices with new releases generally - so the older ones will generally be better value.

Makes the £60 ones almost look affordable (my delusional enabling inner voice tells me).


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 12:00:47


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


yeah their idea of inflation is way off. its getting to the point where my red line will be reached. theres only so much I'm willing to shell out for an (albeit beautiful) piece of sculpted resin.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 12:04:25


Post by: Moopy


Was there any hint of a special Blood Angel jump pack unit?

Making sure there isn't before I order Mk 4 jumpers.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 13:08:49


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


they mentioned a unit thats coming that could represent sanguinary guard, but nothing solid.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 15:59:48


Post by: gorgon


tneva82 wrote:
 Looky Likey wrote:
My biggest takeaway from the event was from the first Q&A Forum with the HH rules team. The team is now three people and soley focused on producing one book a year. They will be only working on HH as well. Last year they tried to do Talons of the Emperor as a red book/40k codex but ran into so many approval processes with GW as GW made it clear it owns 8th edition. It seems to me that FW have given up on 40k... This was reenforced by Tony and others stating that there will now be tens of books more before they get to the SoT. Each will expand the legions out so sounds like they will be full of legion specific units, doesn't sound like a good idea to me as that must limit sales if only one legion can field something (see the new WS land speeder that I know a lot of people would buy if they could).



Uuuh while book a year would be nice wouldn't this basically mean decades before they get to siege of terra? Tens of books, 1 per year...With BL getting to Siege of terra in few months seems like long wait.


IIRC, their stated plan before AB's passing was for up to 25 books. So maybe not much change there. I don't think it's sustainable, of course. They've always been a passionate team whose reach perpetually seems to exceed its grasp.

Regarding FW possibly being 'done' with 40K, that was what I was alluding to after the recent custodes beta rules release. My Spidey-Sense was tingling that it might be a rules dump and dusting of hands in place of a Talons book release. Maybe it still has life though...we'll see.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 16:37:30


Post by: ImAGeek


 Moopy wrote:
Was there any hint of a special Blood Angel jump pack unit?

Making sure there isn't before I order Mk 4 jumpers.


There is. Angels Tears or something, a special assault squad.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 16:45:13


Post by: Red_Five


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
they mentioned a unit thats coming that could represent sanguinary guard, but nothing solid.


From what I have read, they stated that if you want to use the Sanguinary Guard models, then you should use the Command Squad rules.

 BrookM wrote:
Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.

As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.


This is probably the silliest opinion of I have seen all day. The release schedules for BL and 30k have little to do with one another. Which is how it should be. A series of novels should have a strict end point. A game should be more open ended. Plus there is a ton of stuff that 30k hasn't even gotten a chance to deal with yet. So I am perfectly content for the 30k team to go at their own pace and not worry about BL wrapping the series HH series up (and, even then, the BL teams has left the door open to telling more stories in the HH era, so realistically the door is not really closed, just the main story). .


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 17:50:51


Post by: Yodhrin


 Red_Five wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
they mentioned a unit thats coming that could represent sanguinary guard, but nothing solid.


From what I have read, they stated that if you want to use the Sanguinary Guard models, then you should use the Command Squad rules.

 BrookM wrote:
Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.

As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.


This is probably the silliest opinion of I have seen all day. The release schedules for BL and 30k have little to do with one another. Which is how it should be. A series of novels should have a strict end point. A game should be more open ended. Plus there is a ton of stuff that 30k hasn't even gotten a chance to deal with yet. So I am perfectly content for the 30k team to go at their own pace and not worry about BL wrapping the series HH series up (and, even then, the BL teams has left the door open to telling more stories in the HH era, so realistically the door is not really closed, just the main story). .


All true, but personally I'd prefer FW took the same approach - get the "main plot" laid out in broad strokes, including the finale, then go back and fill in the best of the rest. The idea we might not even start to get the FW books to fight the Solar War/Siege for another five or ten years is actually a bit depressing, especially since my favourite faction(Iron Hands) was basically written out of the series fairly early on(the subsequent Shattered Legions stuff is less IH content and more the BL team berating IH fans for liking them), and my second favourite faction(loyalist Mechanicum) will likely only get their next big feature when FW get around to doing Terra & Mars.

When I like a setting I'll happily read/buy content I find to be "peripheral" to my primary interest(for example, I own and have read all the BL novels related to WHFB Elves, despite finding them stupendously unappealing in general, because I want to have as complete an understanding of that setting as I can), but only if I'm also getting the stuff I really care about at a reasonable pace. At one book a year, almost nobody will be getting their primary interest at a reasonable pace, and if that state of affairs is likely to last years & years with no real end in sight, I think that'd be more of a drain on the playerbase(ie, people who play 30K, rather than those who played 40K with 30K lists) than 40K 8th was.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 18:03:15


Post by: Red_Five


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Red_Five wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
they mentioned a unit thats coming that could represent sanguinary guard, but nothing solid.


From what I have read, they stated that if you want to use the Sanguinary Guard models, then you should use the Command Squad rules.

 BrookM wrote:
Oh wow, I think they're putting a bit too much faith into the Horus Heresy as a whole carrying them for the coming years.

As awesome as the models are, there is fatigue and the trickle at which things are rolled out. They can never manage to hold attention for so long, especially not when the main event over at BL will be over in two or so years.


This is probably the silliest opinion of I have seen all day. The release schedules for BL and 30k have little to do with one another. Which is how it should be. A series of novels should have a strict end point. A game should be more open ended. Plus there is a ton of stuff that 30k hasn't even gotten a chance to deal with yet. So I am perfectly content for the 30k team to go at their own pace and not worry about BL wrapping the series HH series up (and, even then, the BL teams has left the door open to telling more stories in the HH era, so realistically the door is not really closed, just the main story). .


All true, but personally I'd prefer FW took the same approach - get the "main plot" laid out in broad strokes, including the finale, then go back and fill in the best of the rest. The idea we might not even start to get the FW books to fight the Solar War/Siege for another five or ten years is actually a bit depressing, especially since my favourite faction(Iron Hands) was basically written out of the series fairly early on(the subsequent Shattered Legions stuff is less IH content and more the BL team berating IH fans for liking them), and my second favourite faction(loyalist Mechanicum) will likely only get their next big feature when FW get around to doing Terra & Mars.

When I like a setting I'll happily read/buy content I find to be "peripheral" to my primary interest(for example, I own and have read all the BL novels related to WHFB Elves, despite finding them stupendously unappealing in general, because I want to have as complete an understanding of that setting as I can), but only if I'm also getting the stuff I really care about at a reasonable pace. At one book a year, almost nobody will be getting their primary interest at a reasonable pace, and if that state of affairs is likely to last years & years with no real end in sight, I think that'd be more of a drain on the playerbase(ie, people who play 30K, rather than those who played 40K with 30K lists) than 40K 8th was.


I agree in so far as I think they made a mistake in not pushing out at least the basic rules for all of the legions as early as possible.

I do not believe the 30k crew were allowed (or at least did not desire) to touch the Siege until after the BL team did it. That way there would be minimal contradictions between the two in terms of fluff.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 19:53:59


Post by: gorgon


I have a hard time seeing how 10 more books are sustainable, let alone 15 or 20. It'd require a 10 to 20 year plan and a solid base of customers willing to stick it out that long.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 20:37:27


Post by: spiralingcadaver


Yeah, as much as the HH is a cool section of the setting, and as much as they seem like they've actually managed to make it pretty epic, the sheer volume of material they're putting out on a million variations on Marines is a bit overwhelming for a prospective player, and, with that many more coming out, I'll pass. The sprawl is just too much.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 21:38:01


Post by: Red_Five


 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Yeah, as much as the HH is a cool section of the setting, and as much as they seem like they've actually managed to make it pretty epic, the sheer volume of material they're putting out on a million variations on Marines is a bit overwhelming for a prospective player, and, with that many more coming out, I'll pass. The sprawl is just too much.


I do not understand your post?

The sheer volume of material coming out? You find it difficult to keep up with 1 black book - which only includes units and rules for a handful of the overall available forces - coming out every 12 months (at best)? How do you cope with the volume of material GW pumps out for 40k, where we get multiple factions updated each and every year in the form of multiple campaign books and codexes? If 30k's sprawl is too much to cope with, then 40k's must be bewildering.

 gorgon wrote:
I have a hard time seeing how 10 more books are sustainable, let alone 15 or 20. It'd require a 10 to 20 year plan and a solid base of customers willing to stick it out that long.


Why would it be hard to think of 30k going on for 10 years? Warhammer 40k has been going on for 30+ years. The market and the company are not going anywhere.

Why does the fact that there is a known end to the story curb your enthusiasm for future products? Do you look at the Vigilus campaign book and complain to GW that they need to wrap this story up? No. Why do you want the same for Heresy?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 22:09:10


Post by: spiralingcadaver


I meant to try to catch up with such a sprawling storyline.

The way I "cope" with 40k is that I only vaguely pay attention to the areas outside my preferred factions. As far as I'm concerned, the 40k setting is so nebulous that I don't especially care, while the HH stuff appeals to me more as a multivolume campaign book.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 22:48:57


Post by: CragHack


Start playing siege of Terra by the year 2040. Thanks, but no


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 22:56:14


Post by: Yodhrin


Also, there's an opportunity cost in FW becoming "the Heresy Company" - they might be having issues making content for 40K because of Studio intransigence, but there are a lot of other "historical" settings I'd love to see covered. The Unification Wars, the Nova Terra Interregnum, Vandire's Apostasy, the Sabbat Crusade - depending on how close to "modern day" 40K they can get without triggering the folk at GWHQ pushing 8th & the Rowboat Narrative there are loads of interesting and epic periods to explore.

If they drag the Heresy on for another 20 years as their main product though, I'll probably be dead before anything else gets a look in.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 23:14:18


Post by: warboss


 Yodhrin wrote:

If they drag the Heresy on for another 20 years as their main product though, I'll probably be dead before anything else gets a look in.


Well, there is a roughly 1/12 chance of that doing a quick 5 second highly *UN*scientific simple addition of the deathrates of those above 40 for the next 20 years based on 2015 rates.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 23:32:04


Post by: Carlisimo


 gorgon wrote:
I have a hard time seeing how 10 more books are sustainable, let alone 15 or 20. It'd require a 10 to 20 year plan and a solid base of customers willing to stick it out that long.
Forge World? Having a plan? lol

But more seriously, I do expect that many more books. Book 9 will introduce the last couple of factions to the war and cover their early campaigns. The Martian Civil War hasn’t been covered yet - if it gets a campaign book, that’ll be a tenth set in the chronological beginning of the Heresy. That’s kind of crazy. But what’s the advantage to starting to skip ahead after that?

I assume we’ll get revised rules after book 9. Then, maybe the Martian Civil War for new Mechanicum units, like Skitarii. Tallarn for a tank-based Imperial Army list. A couple of books reflecting the traitor legions’ increasing corruption. Imperium Secundus might need a book, otherwise the Blood Angels will only have been covered at Signus and then at Terra, which feels wrong. The White Scars’ coverage in Malevolence won’t cover their second action of the Heresy when they fought themselves to determine which side they’d be on. I think that’d be great - a small-scale callback to book 1 with its brother-on-brother savagery. Later in the Heresy, I’d like to see the Anvillus campaign, a great place to introduce a million Land Raider variants.

Between those and the Siege of Terra, I can easily picture 10 books, not including the ones for Adeptus Titanicus.

If the Heresy sells well (and I think some changes might be necessary for that to happen), FW should be able to expand their staff and their focus. They might end up in charge of all the old Space Marine stuff once GW drops the non-Primaris infantry and vehicles. That’d be a really big universe to maintain.




Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 23:33:03


Post by: Red_Five


 Yodhrin wrote:
Also, there's an opportunity cost in FW becoming "the Heresy Company" - they might be having issues making content for 40K because of Studio intransigence, but there are a lot of other "historical" settings I'd love to see covered. The Unification Wars, the Nova Terra Interregnum, Vandire's Apostasy, the Sabbat Crusade - depending on how close to "modern day" 40K they can get without triggering the folk at GWHQ pushing 8th & the Rowboat Narrative there are loads of interesting and epic periods to explore.

If they drag the Heresy on for another 20 years as their main product though, I'll probably be dead before anything else gets a look in.


I never really thought about it but the Nova Terra Interregnum ends, like, 200 years before the Ange of Apostasy begins.

I think that is probably the latest they would be allowed to go (M35/M36), given how fiercely GW seems to be protecting 40k lately...

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I meant to try to catch up with such a sprawling storyline.

The way I "cope" with 40k is that I only vaguely pay attention to the areas outside my preferred factions. As far as I'm concerned, the 40k setting is so nebulous that I don't especially care, while the HH stuff appeals to me more as a multivolume campaign book.


I misunderstood, my bad


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 23:51:17


Post by: H.B.M.C.


It seems so bizarre that GW would be "protecting" 40K from... themselves. Why are FW treated like an adversary or competitor?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/04 23:55:53


Post by: Peregrine


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It seems so bizarre that GW would be "protecting" 40K from... themselves. Why are FW treated like an adversary or competitor?


Because GW.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 00:09:37


Post by: Galas


Personal egos, probably.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 00:28:25


Post by: Nostromodamus


Two things.

1. Unification Wars would be an awesome setting for a game.

2. I find it highly amusing that folks are calculating the likelihood of them dying before the Siege of Terra gets covered


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 01:54:34


Post by: Alpharius


I would LOVE for them to do some Great Crusade books.

Back when the Primarchs and their Legions were all...er...good guys, and it would be a great way to introduce Xenos into 30K.

It would be awesome I tell ya, awesome!


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 02:16:39


Post by: H.B.M.C.


That's their long, long term goal Alpha. For the Forge World of the 2100's.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 06:08:25


Post by: Theophony


 Alpharius wrote:
I would LOVE for them to do some Great Crusade books.

Back when the Primarchs and their Legions were all...er...good guys, and it would be a great way to introduce Xenos into 30K.

It would be awesome I tell ya, awesome!


Just think of all the new Rhino doors to be had with emblems from The War Dogs, The Imperial Heralds, The Dusk Warriors and the rest .


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 08:15:23


Post by: H.B.M.C.


25 books? Even that seems like an excruciating number, especially at the speed and price they're making them.

25 books (or any large number - tens of books, as the report said), to me at least, equals I stop buying them altogether, or only pick up the "important" ones.

People rightly lambaste the BL Horus Heresy series for spinning its wheels with endless story filler and whole novels about "Minor Skirmish 7-A". The last thing we want to see is massively expensive and super-slow releases from FW to cover minor skirmishes so they can sell a new set of shoulder pads, Rhino doors and a few new Consuls. It'd make every book like the second book of the Vraks trilogy, which basically boiled down to "Look we made a Reaver! We'd very much like it if you purchased a Reaver! Did we mention the Reaver Titan we made? REAVER!!!".






Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 08:47:51


Post by: Peregrine


IMO it says a lot that when FW consolidated the entire Vraks trilogy into a single book for the second edition update it didn't really feel like anything was lost. Not exactly a promising sign for 30k...


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 09:09:25


Post by: Looky Likey


 gorgon wrote:
Uuuh while book a year would be nice wouldn't this basically mean decades before they get to siege of terra? Tens of books, 1 per year...With BL getting to Siege of terra in few months seems like long wait.

IIRC, their stated plan before AB's passing was for up to 25 books. So maybe not much change there. I don't think it's sustainable, of course. They've always been a passionate team whose reach perpetually seems to exceed its grasp.

Regarding FW possibly being 'done' with 40K, that was what I was alluding to after the recent custodes beta rules release. My Spidey-Sense was tingling that it might be a rules dump and dusting of hands in place of a Talons book release. Maybe it still has life though...we'll see.

The plan as stated by the rules team at the 2018 Weekender was finish the legions with book 9, then look to reboot the ruleset with either 8th, further update 7th, or develop a new set of rules. That would then lead into a new version of HH with all new books leading directly to the SoT (which was stated at the 2019 weekender when asked as being about 3 books). We'd have seen way less than the near 30 books they are looking to now produce.

This is FW having its wings clipped and them only having the one setting to play with for 28mm for the short and medium term.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It seems so bizarre that GW would be "protecting" 40K from... themselves. Why are FW treated like an adversary or competitor?


This felt like GW trying to keep 40k balanced (as funny as the reality of that is) and avoiding GW having to manage the FW rules writing process for 40k units.

To be fair, FW doesn't have a large enough team needed to produce enough models for HH and 40k and Specalist Games at the same time.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 09:12:44


Post by: tneva82


 Looky Likey wrote:
This felt like GW trying to keep 40k balanced (as funny as the reality of that is) and avoiding GW having to manage the FW rules writing process for 40k units.

To be fair, FW doesn't have a large enough team needed to produce enough models for HH and 40k and Specalist Games at the same time.


Yeah that's rather funny goal seeing GW is the one doing most unbalancing to the game. The less GW gets involved with 40k the better it is for balance.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 09:37:47


Post by: beast_gts


 Moopy wrote:
Was there any hint of a special Blood Angel jump pack unit?

Making sure there isn't before I order Mk 4 jumpers.



From Garro on FB:

Garro wrote:you’re three units are the dawnguard, crimson Paladins, the ‘something’ tears, and the new contemptor-Incaendius; with 1st captain Raldoron and a new guy as your characters.

The Dawnguard are an elite jump pack unit with spears, they’re described as being a bit fragile but hitting hard and fast, so these are your glass cannon assault unit. worth noting that taking Sanguinius himself makes these troops.

Crimson Paladins are the guardians of Sanguinius’s halls rather than the birdman himself. they’re a tanky unit, designed to hold down the enemy while the faster and more fragile units close in, these are the ‘hard place’ to the Dawnguard’s ‘hammer’.

The ‘tears’, can’t remember the other bit of the name, but theses are a unit of destoryer like marines. they’ve have twin volkite serpenta’s and access to other nasty weapons of destruction. Sanguinius considers this role so horrible that marines are rotated around, and were sliver death masks and taking on new identities while with the units, not unlike Aeldari and the aspect warriors.




Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 10:17:07


Post by: zedmeister


 Looky Likey wrote:
The plan as stated by the rules team at the 2018 Weekender was finish the legions with book 9, then look to reboot the ruleset with either 8th, further update 7th, or develop a new set of rules. That would then lead into a new version of HH with all new books leading directly to the SoT (which was stated at the 2019 weekender when asked as being about 3 books). We'd have seen way less than the near 30 books they are looking to now produce.

This is FW having its wings clipped and them only having the one setting to play with for 28mm for the short and medium term.


Well, I find that saddening. Not sure why they feel the need to hobble Forgeworld as, for a long time, it was the only department showing growth.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 12:00:15


Post by: Looky Likey


 zedmeister wrote:
Well, I find that saddening. Not sure why they feel the need to hobble Forgeworld as, for a long time, it was the only department showing growth.
Its similar to all outbound announcements, release info and now downloads having to go via Community now so Community can make sure its to "brand standards", "on message", and via their Community website to drive people to said website. Its why the majority of new stuff from the weekender was on the Community website before it was shown at the weekender as Community wants to be first breaking the news rather than a 3rd party at the event and potentially losing page views. Rules being owned by one team is just another version of this. As long as it is successful (and GW have done nothing but grow since they rebooted themselves) it will just reenforce that this is the right approach.



Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 12:25:19


Post by: MajorWesJanson


If GW is doing the rules for 40k now, they really need to look at the FW indexes and update them. Especially Titans of all sorts.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 12:35:45


Post by: Moopy


 Alpharius wrote:
I would LOVE for them to do some Great Crusade books.

Back when the Primarchs and their Legions were all...er...good guys, and it would be a great way to introduce Xenos into 30K.

It would be awesome I tell ya, awesome!


Agreed!

As a long time 40k player I've known how this ends for decades now.

I'm really really interested in finding out what happens right AFTER.

How do the traitors extricate themselves off Terra? How are they hounded and where do they go?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 14:25:35


Post by: Alpharius


That would be The Scourging, which while interesting, still doesn't hold a candle to the great good fun that a Great Crusade setting would give us!

But odds are we will see The Scourging, but not the Great Crusade, sadly...


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 14:30:42


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


The great crusade won't take off because there is no scope for traitor legions, and people like traitor legions.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 14:33:56


Post by: H.B.M.C.


And they'd have to make other adversaries, like the Mega-Arachnids and other things.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 14:43:04


Post by: zedmeister


It is highly unlikely they'd go Great Crusade. If they do, it'll take someone with Alan Bligh's talent to really pull it off and they'd most likely focus on the most apocalyptic war - the Rangdan Xenocide. They wouldn't do Murder as that is, frankly, a backwater in comparison.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 14:52:33


Post by: gorgon


 Looky Likey wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
Uuuh while book a year would be nice wouldn't this basically mean decades before they get to siege of terra? Tens of books, 1 per year...With BL getting to Siege of terra in few months seems like long wait.

IIRC, their stated plan before AB's passing was for up to 25 books. So maybe not much change there. I don't think it's sustainable, of course. They've always been a passionate team whose reach perpetually seems to exceed its grasp.

Regarding FW possibly being 'done' with 40K, that was what I was alluding to after the recent custodes beta rules release. My Spidey-Sense was tingling that it might be a rules dump and dusting of hands in place of a Talons book release. Maybe it still has life though...we'll see.

The plan as stated by the rules team at the 2018 Weekender was finish the legions with book 9, then look to reboot the ruleset with either 8th, further update 7th, or develop a new set of rules. That would then lead into a new version of HH with all new books leading directly to the SoT (which was stated at the 2019 weekender when asked as being about 3 books). We'd have seen way less than the near 30 books they are looking to now produce.

This is FW having its wings clipped and them only having the one setting to play with for 28mm for the short and medium term.


I believe they said 15-20 or 15-25 at the 2017 Weekender.

And this is why a 20, 25 or 30 book plan isn't remotely sustainable. Both external and internal conditions can change yearly or even quarterly. And they're going to knock out a book a year uninterrupted for the next TWENTY YEARS?

Business plans shouldn't be fairy tales.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 15:03:11


Post by: Crimson


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
If GW is doing the rules for 40k now, they really need to look at the FW indexes and update them. Especially Titans of all sorts.

I really don't understand why the main GW team cannot handle the rule side of the 40K things for the FW. The FW indexes were an utter garbage fire, and even if that hadn't been the case, for consistency's sake it is the best if each game has its own dedicated team that handles all rules for that game. FW guys can do the rules for HH and the specialist games.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 15:17:32


Post by: Haighus


zedmeister wrote:It is highly unlikely they'd go Great Crusade. If they do, it'll take someone with Alan Bligh's talent to really pull it off and they'd most likely focus on the most apocalyptic war - the Rangdan Xenocide. They wouldn't do Murder as that is, frankly, a backwater in comparison.

Agreed. Plus the xenos involved in the Rangdan xenocide seem to be reappearing in 40k, and would make an excellent new major xenos threat.

Alpharius wrote:That would be The Scourging, which while interesting, still doesn't hold a candle to the great good fun that a Great Crusade setting would give us!

But odds are we will see The Scourging, but not the Great Crusade, sadly...

The Scouring is a more realistic option I think because the xenos counterattack during the Scouring- they take advantage of the fractured ruins of the Imperium to regroup and seize lost territory. Therefore, we get both loyalist vs traitor action and xenos threats. Any xenos that survived the Great Crusade with enough strength to attack again following the Heresy are also the only xenos really worth caring about in a GC setting- they are the major players like Eldar, Orks, Khrave etc. As mentioned above, all the Megarachnids and Laer of the Galaxy are pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things- they only have relevence within the specific stories told in the HH books. FW will never make xenos models for species confined to a single world, nor should they.

So we get aspects of both the Heresy and the GC in the Scouring, with the added bonus that any new xenos are likely still floating around in 40k and could make entirely new factions, rather than being simply exterminated in the GC.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 15:24:09


Post by: tneva82


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
The great crusade won't take off because there is no scope for traitor legions, and people like traitor legions.


On the contrary. It would allow such battles as luna wolves and ba together which was common etc


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 15:34:37


Post by: Haighus


tneva82 wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
The great crusade won't take off because there is no scope for traitor legions, and people like traitor legions.


On the contrary. It would allow such battles as luna wolves and ba together which was common etc

Not fighting against each other though. It is repeatedly mentioned how unthinkable the idea of Astartes vs Astartes is in the early HH books, and how it was such a shock to the loyalists. Therefore Astartes fighting must've been exceedingly rare beforehand.

Anyway, you could easily have a loyalist SoH detachment who have returned to Luna Wolves colours fighting alongside BA troops in the HH. There is more scope for that kind of thing during the Heresy, not less.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 15:54:45


Post by: gorgon


Unification Wars or bust. I think it'd be far more interesting and creative than either the Crusade or Scouring settings.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 16:16:27


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


 gorgon wrote:
Unification Wars or bust. I think it'd be far more interesting and creative than either the Crusade or Scouring settings.


yeah the uni wars could be an interesting one to explore. lots of human factions, techno barbarians, thunder warriors etc. parts would be cross compatible from all the current ranges. and you could still have evil/chaos forces with the Ursh stuff.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 16:17:28


Post by: Red_Five


I think the Scourging is way more likely than the Unification Wars.

But man, I would love to see a Thunder Warrior fight a Space Marine.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 16:23:15


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


tneva82 wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
The great crusade won't take off because there is no scope for traitor legions, and people like traitor legions.


On the contrary. It would allow such battles as luna wolves and ba together which was common etc


against whom? random aliens? isolated human settlements which stand no chance against astartes? lets be honest, the great crusade is just background filler in which to cultivate the Heresy story. the opponents faced are irrelevant filler, except the Orks, which, although a mainstay of the wider 40k universe, still only a footnote in the heresy stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Red_Five wrote:
I think the Scourging is way more likely than the Unification Wars.

But man, I would love to see a Thunder Warrior fight a Space Marine.


it only happens once (or possibly twice if you count outcast dead) in the lore.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 16:44:43


Post by: Rayvon


Pre or post heresy I think there is still a lot of stuff to be explored and as long as I dont have to read about primaris or any of the terrible current 40k storylines I am happy !


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 16:49:36


Post by: Overread


 Crimson wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
If GW is doing the rules for 40k now, they really need to look at the FW indexes and update them. Especially Titans of all sorts.

I really don't understand why the main GW team cannot handle the rule side of the 40K things for the FW. The FW indexes were an utter garbage fire, and even if that hadn't been the case, for consistency's sake it is the best if each game has its own dedicated team that handles all rules for that game. FW guys can do the rules for HH and the specialist games.



I think historically its been because the main studio and FW didn't communicate. The main studio releases are kept tightly under wraps - heck FW team didn't even know AoS was going to hit until it pretty much landed. GW's internal protections against leaks sometimes don't work in their favour.

Plus there's likely been a legacy issue; FW was often seen as quite an independent entity within the GW framework. Off to the side doing their own thing. I think Kirby allowed that to continue whilst I think Rountree is bringing them more into the mainstream fold.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 17:01:12


Post by: ImAGeek


 Crimson wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
If GW is doing the rules for 40k now, they really need to look at the FW indexes and update them. Especially Titans of all sorts.

I really don't understand why the main GW team cannot handle the rule side of the 40K things for the FW. The FW indexes were an utter garbage fire, and even if that hadn't been the case, for consistency's sake it is the best if each game has its own dedicated team that handles all rules for that game. FW guys can do the rules for HH and the specialist games.


Well, they are now.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 17:22:21


Post by: Irbis


 Peregrine wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It seems so bizarre that GW would be "protecting" 40K from... themselves. Why are FW treated like an adversary or competitor?

Because GW.

I like how people blame GW when vast majority of nonsense is coming squarely from FW side. Who is sitting on finished Cyraxus? Not GW. Who "forgot" plastic custodes exist and made up their uglier, fluff-breaking versions of almost every custode unit while doing utmost to deny plastics rules? All while ignoring both custode art (which is nearly identical to plastics and looks nothing like resin...) while making both named custode HQs look utterly comical and ill-fitting in supposedly 'progressive' M30? Not GW. Who frakking started spouting nonsense about 30K BA (namely, that their iconic unit and their second in command who only oh, was acting Emperor for a bit apparently don't exist) just to avoid selling plastic minis? Not GW. Who peed all over late Alan Bligh's plan to move to 8th edition just to show middle finger to GW despite said move almost killing HH? Take one guess. Etc, etc. I have no idea why people defend FW when the amount of lies, lack of communication, and blame shifting (remember totally-special-pattern, not-upside-down bolters?) over last 2 years point finger squarely in one direction...

tneva82 wrote:
 Looky Likey wrote:
This felt like GW trying to keep 40k balanced (as funny as the reality of that is) and avoiding GW having to manage the FW rules writing process for 40k units.

To be fair, FW doesn't have a large enough team needed to produce enough models for HH and 40k and Specalist Games at the same time.

Yeah that's rather funny goal seeing GW is the one doing most unbalancing to the game. The less GW gets involved with 40k the better it is for balance.

Yup, and that's exactly why most of broken pay-to-win gak is found squarely on FW side, because GW is bad at balancing. Oh wait

Maybe you should actually read something FW put out recently, because they can't even balance game based solely on MEQ minis, FW books look like they were not only never proofread, but put together by illiterate Malaysian child over weekend (looking at you, FW Index...) with half of the rules either missing or being copy-pasted from past editions, point costs are broken across the board, either making units completely unusable or OP as gak, really, compared to that GW is whole segmentums ahead in quality and execution. Not even 7th edition was as bad as some gems produced by FW recently, with only material and availability barriers stopping resin spam making even 7th edition Eldar look like a weak joke. Why, already forgot how every single Chaos HQ was from FW or how FW thought 4 pts Elysians with native deep strike should also get regimental traits for free before GW was forced for the first time ever to step in and hit the nonsense with nerf bat?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 17:37:16


Post by: tneva82


If gw says at last minute to fw redo every rule no wonder it's nmt good. But look at hh game that beats crap out of 8th in terms of logic, fun and especially balance. Bb, necro. Both lightyears ahead 8th. At is even better.

Main studio is incompetent junk that doesn't even want balance. Pay to win? Always gw speciality. Fw units are more of err on side of caution.
Fw isn't perfect but at least they try balance. Gw intentionally doesn't as imbalance ups profits.

Fw interested in quality, gw from exploiting balance for profit and game balance can go to hell


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 17:41:39


Post by: greyknight12


The Lord of the Rings trilogy was adapted from 3 books into 3 movies; a lot of stuff was cut but they “hit the high points”. The Hobbit was adapted from 1 book into 3 movies. The former is a great piece of fantasy film, the latter became a joke among even die-hard fans of the setting.
Forgeworld’s should be striving to emulate The Lord of the Rings with it’s Heresy rules, and leave Legolas’ adventures in Mordor to the Black Library.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 19:10:59


Post by: Racerguy180


 greyknight12 wrote:
The Lord of the Rings trilogy was adapted from 3 books into 3 movies; a lot of stuff was cut but they “hit the high points”. The Hobbit was adapted from 1 book into 3 movies. The former is a great piece of fantasy film, the latter became a joke among even die-hard fans of the setting.
Forgeworld’s should be striving to emulate The Lord of the Rings with it’s Heresy rules, and leave Legolas’ adventures in Mordor to the Black Library.


This is sadly true, but hilarious(both Hobbit & LOTR).


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 19:38:35


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


The Hobbit being stretched into 3 movies was ridiculous. I could've bought maybe just 2 movies.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 19:51:01


Post by: Red_Five


If you want a discrete narrative, you should really go read the BL novels. We are playing a game. The game is expanded and deepened by the (mostly) annual release of a big campaign book. Just because you know the narrative of the game has an end point does not mean you should be racing to get to that point.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Hobbit being stretched into 3 movies was ridiculous. I could've bought maybe just 2 movies.


It was ridiculous to split the book into 3 films but it worked out for the studio - the movies made 2.93 billion dollars. To be fair to Peter Jackson, he came on board way late in the process. Jackson spent years setting LotR trilogy up, where as he barely had a few months for the Hobbit trilogy. Beyond that, the actor's guild strike was also a huge problem that almost saw the production leave New Zealand, which is something Jackson was desperately fighting against.Had he been given the year or more he wanted to revise the script and set up the production, I am 100% sure all three films would have been at least as good as the weakest of the LotR movies.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 21:29:33


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 ingtaer wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Just give two of them a snip

Why? The more topknots you have, the more powerful you are.


Is that why his sword got one as well? (yes, I know its a tassel)


Top knots are the new skulls.

And skulls are the old spikes.

And spikes are the new chains.

And chains are the old fleur d'liles.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 22:12:47


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Crimson wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
If GW is doing the rules for 40k now, they really need to look at the FW indexes and update them. Especially Titans of all sorts.

I really don't understand why the main GW team cannot handle the rule side of the 40K things for the FW. The FW indexes were an utter garbage fire, and even if that hadn't been the case, for consistency's sake it is the best if each game has its own dedicated team that handles all rules for that game. FW guys can do the rules for HH and the specialist games.


At this point fw index armies for 40k are better off using an adapted Version of their previous list then the gakpile we have now that claims to be a index but in truth is just a pile of used toilet paper.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 22:26:07


Post by: Formosa


If gw did the rules for forge world we would end up with vastly over costed units in comparison to the standard 40k ones.... Oh wait, nevermind.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 22:28:48


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Formosa wrote:
If gw did the rules for forge world we would end up with vastly over costed units in comparison to the standard 40k ones.... Oh wait, nevermind.


CA came knocking and demands a spike tax on your greater daemons.

They also got you for tax evasion.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/05 23:22:17


Post by: Dreadclaw69


 Alpharius wrote:
I would LOVE for them to do some Great Crusade books.

Back when the Primarchs and their Legions were all...er...good guys, and it would be a great way to introduce Xenos into 30K.

It would be awesome I tell ya, awesome!

Especially some Legion lists prior to the discovery of the Primarchs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 zedmeister wrote:
It is highly unlikely they'd go Great Crusade. If they do, it'll take someone with Alan Bligh's talent to really pull it off and they'd most likely focus on the most apocalyptic war - the Rangdan Xenocide. They wouldn't do Murder as that is, frankly, a backwater in comparison.

For something of that magnitude would it be better in epic scale to do it justice?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/06 07:38:27


Post by: Ghorgul


Most 40k FW index stuff looks like they are provided just for the sake of providing rules. However no one seems especially interested to see the point costs at any playable level, most are ridiculously overcosted.

But back on the general topic:
The supposed plan of 15-20-25 books for Horus Heresy is just silly, and I in general like 30k/HH more than 8th. To me this sounds more like a plan for some tv-show which basically is continued as long as level of profits generated is above certain minimum level, i.e. they will milk the setting as long as they can. So the final siege will probably be horrible rush job in the end, or alternatively we never see it because the setting is axed.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/06 17:08:15


Post by: R0bcrt


Ghorgul wrote:
Most 40k FW index stuff looks like they are provided just for the sake of providing rules. However no one seems especially interested to see the point costs at any playable level, most are ridiculously overcosted.

But back on the general topic:
The supposed plan of 15-20-25 books for Horus Heresy is just silly, and I in general like 30k/HH more than 8th. To me this sounds more like a plan for some tv-show which basically is continued as long as level of profits generated is above certain minimum level, i.e. they will milk the setting as long as they can. So the final siege will probably be horrible rush job in the end, or alternatively we never see it because the setting is axed.



Honestly I wouldn't mind them doing so many books IF they did it correctly. In my view correctly means focusing on the major events first, then use the additional books as side stories/campaign supplements. For example, my ideal layout would be:

This year release the Blood Angel/White Scar book, and at the end of this year release the Dark Angel/Dark Mechanicum books (my understanding is that originally the two books were combined, so a good chunk of the work should be done and thus this plan should be viable).

Then next Year (2020) release a Siege of Terra book. This way it coincides with the series, as releasing it as book number 20 or something will just kill hype.

After that I'd envision the extra black books as things like the Siege of Vraks- important in the fluff but not crucial to the story so waiting years upon years wouldn't be a problem. Heck one or more black book(s) could add xenos as an expansion, as it's only logical xenos would still be around and sometimes get in the way of both forces.

Heck one idea I'd love is some special event campaign like the Steel Confessors one, make some planet and have the players decide who controls it, and have this either coincide with or make a black book from the results.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/06 17:45:51


Post by: gorgon


R0bcrt wrote:
Ghorgul wrote:
Most 40k FW index stuff looks like they are provided just for the sake of providing rules. However no one seems especially interested to see the point costs at any playable level, most are ridiculously overcosted.

But back on the general topic:
The supposed plan of 15-20-25 books for Horus Heresy is just silly, and I in general like 30k/HH more than 8th. To me this sounds more like a plan for some tv-show which basically is continued as long as level of profits generated is above certain minimum level, i.e. they will milk the setting as long as they can. So the final siege will probably be horrible rush job in the end, or alternatively we never see it because the setting is axed.


Honestly I wouldn't mind them doing so many books IF they did it correctly. In my view correctly means focusing on the major events first, then use the additional books as side stories/campaign supplements.


I have to say that this seems like a much more viable plan, if FW was to do this. And it's not like the black books haven't jumped all around the timeline. They still wouldn't get to 20 books (assuming books similar in size, content and quality to the existing black books), but that way you're not asking customers to wait for a decade or two before reaching the conclusion of the series.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/06 20:49:14


Post by: GoatboyBeta


As lovely as the black books are I do feel the format has become a bit of a millstone around 30ks neck. The softback versions of the earlier books might help. But even then how much of book one's rules content is relevant to the current game? Already book seven has large sections that are getting outright replaced. IMO they should pivot the black books into being background focused with the rules content just covering campaigns, missions. environment rules and other universal stuff. Keep the army lists and core rules in the smaller format red books(or even Index style softbacks) that can be updated at a quicker pace and at less cost to gamers.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/07 15:50:03


Post by: Red_Five


GoatboyBeta wrote:
As lovely as the black books are I do feel the format has become a bit of a millstone around 30ks neck. The softback versions of the earlier books might help. But even then how much of book one's rules content is relevant to the current game? Already book seven has large sections that are getting outright replaced. IMO they should pivot the black books into being background focused with the rules content just covering campaigns, missions. environment rules and other universal stuff. Keep the army lists and core rules in the smaller format red books(or even Index style softbacks) that can be updated at a quicker pace and at less cost to gamers.


The presence of new rules is a strong motivator for people to actually buy the expensive black books. Removing them would hobble the sales quite a bit. I would kind of prefer it if the rules and the fluff were separated into two books, sold together (like what GW did with the Space Wolf and Tau campaigns), that way I do not have to lug my black book around with me.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 09:26:42


Post by: Ratius


Those Deathsworn, awesome sauce.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 09:38:55


Post by: zedmeister


 Ratius wrote:
Those Deathsworn, awesome sauce.


Aye, much better than the god awful Varagyr and the invert bolter Grey Slayers! Even the paint job is alright.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 09:59:39


Post by: BrookM


Paint job is pretty rough when viewed in 360 degree view.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 10:11:31


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


the FW paint jobs are rough, period. I get that they're not trying to enter GD but at least learn to blend a layer. Just compare those FW images to the new primaris reiver librarian paint job. There's no comparison.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 13:24:29


Post by: hobojebus


 zedmeister wrote:
 Ratius wrote:
Those Deathsworn, awesome sauce.


Aye, much better than the god awful Varagyr and the invert bolter Grey Slayers! Even the paint job is alright.


Yeah but still worse than it should be given the guys supposedly a professional painter.

Shame most of us have already converted several squads already.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 15:05:32


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


I could definitely see myself using some of those bitz. The heads are kinda fancy and specific for my liking, but it could make for a good Chaplain equivalent stand-in.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 17:02:46


Post by: Ashiraya


That Space Wolf character is so hideous. Goodness gracious. How did this get past QA?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 17:22:42


Post by: Galas


Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 17:25:07


Post by: Formosa


 Galas wrote:
Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.


as much as i dont want to agree i must agree, GW has surpassed forge world at the moment, give it a couple of years though and I think it may balance out.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 17:42:09


Post by: Red_Five


 Galas wrote:
Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.


Plastic technology has finally caught up with metal and resin quality, which is why GW's models look so good.

Forge World does not sell enough kits to justify going plastic (plastic molds costs 100k to create, which means you need to sell a huge volume to make a profit). Resin and Metal molds cost a lot less to make but require new molds to be created after a couple dozen or so uses.

Forge World is a premium product for a niche market. Could they sell more models if they charged less for them? Yes. But best business practicies will usually encourage those who create premium products for niche markets to sell high. After all, it is better to sell a product to one person for 2 dollars than it is to sell two products to two people for one dollar a piece (at least in a niche market).

Even if you compare FW products to similarly sized metal and resin models from other companies, FW is not THAT much more expensive. The real killer (and this is true of all Games Workshop games) is that they charge a pretty penny for models and then require you to buy tons and tons of models, so it is a double whammy - high costs for a high model count game.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 17:48:31


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Shocking, shocking paint jobs. Real shame, as those minis are ace.

I do love how GW expects me to pay over AUD$100 for that Terminator. Jesus...


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 17:53:28


Post by: Quasistellar


 Ratius wrote:
Those Deathsworn, awesome sauce.


Er, I think they had a good concept but those look terrible.

Spacewolf Squats doing the pee pee dance.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 21:38:03


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


I don't think gw plastic are at the standard of the detail of forgeworld resin yet. There's no way they could render sanguinius, or any of the primarchs really in plastic to such a high level. But plastic has definitely come along. The poses they can create are so much more realistic.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/08 22:22:28


Post by: Gimgamgoo


 BrookM wrote:


Spoiler:



Spoiler:


Wow. If Mantic had released this, they'd have been slated (by half the people saying these are ok).

GW's sculpts and paint jobs have been out of the park recently - even if they're not the style I like, but these FW offerings seem like GW are trying to get FW shut down.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/09 12:08:52


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 Galas wrote:
Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.


Honestly, until a couple of years ago I was badly tempted by Horus Heresy. I’d look at Forgeworld releases thinking their minis are better than GW’s, their art is better, their books are more of a joy to read. Since 8th Edition my opinion has totally reversed. GW have upped their game on all fronts, whereas FW just aren’t that good anymore.

I’m starting to think Horus Heresy needs a complete reboot, at least for me to be interested in it again. In the meantime, the only thing I got excited about from the Weekender was the Necromunda news.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 BrookM wrote:


Spoiler:



Spoiler:


Wow. If Mantic had released this, they'd have been slated (by half the people saying these are ok).

GW's sculpts and paint jobs have been out of the park recently - even if they're not the style I like, but these FW offerings seem like GW are trying to get FW shut down.

To be fair, I quite like the Deathsworn but I’d never buy them because Heresy is stuck with the old stumpy marines. Once I’d seen Primaris, I just can’t look past how horribly proportioned old marines are.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/09 21:15:12


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


Yeah if the Heresy marines were primaris proportions they'd be much cooler. Fortunately I only paint the Heresy characters, and they're still a much higher standard than GW characters.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/10 00:38:03


Post by: Irbis


queen_annes_revenge wrote:I don't think gw plastic are at the standard of the detail of forgeworld resin yet. There's no way they could render sanguinius, or any of the primarchs really in plastic to such a high level. But plastic has definitely come along. The poses they can create are so much more realistic.

No way? New plastic Lord of Change pretty much matches or exceeds primarchs in all possible detail, on top of being much better proportioned (just compare his wings to Sanguinius, much thinner and actually wing-like). And that is what, 5 year old design now? Even plastic marines are way more detailed now, say actual vents on their backpacks vs square peg-like protrusions without details on most resin marines (this is really irritating as some of the more recent HH character minis don't even have detail plastic troops had a decade ago or more...).

Gimgamgoo wrote:Wow. If Mantic had released this, they'd have been slated (by half the people saying these are ok).

Would they? I have seen a lot of people here praise certain three bit "designers" to seriously doubt that. If third party stuff that garbage, ugly, and ill-fitting on 40K models finds purchasers and promoters (despite ruining look of anything it's glued to) then FW would need a lot harder than even upside-down bolters to actually change anything...

And to be perfectly fair, Deathsworn helmets are the best SW helmets anyone had ever done. Nothing GW made really compares, except maybe for that one old upgrade bit. Finally a helmet that looks like someone artistically skilled made metal overlay on top to skillfully mimic wolf skull, instead of just gluing random bones on top and calling it a day.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/10 00:45:24


Post by: changemod


Yeah, the capes on the resin shield captain and valdor are big thick chunks of material, whilst if you check out a plastic shield captain or valoris, they’re wearing something that looks like an actual cape.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/10 11:51:22


Post by: SeanDrake


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.


Honestly, until a couple of years ago I was badly tempted by Horus Heresy. I’d look at Forgeworld releases thinking their minis are better than GW’s, their art is better, their books are more of a joy to read. Since 8th Edition my opinion has totally reversed. GW have upped their game on all fronts, whereas FW just aren’t that good anymore.

I’m starting to think Horus Heresy needs a complete reboot, at least for me to be interested in it again. In the meantime, the only thing I got excited about from the Weekender was the Necromunda news.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 BrookM wrote:


Spoiler:



Spoiler:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/10 12:01:04


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/10 12:18:55


Post by: hobojebus


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


Oh I'd say the wolves have got nothing but the short end of the stick.

Our preator is terrible, our terminators are garbage, our weapon upgrades have upside down bolters for fekkes sake.

Russ, wolfkin and the contemptor have been the only decent stuff we got up to this point.

Custodes and sons both got way more love.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/10 12:38:38


Post by: Theophony


hobojebus wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


Oh I'd say the wolves have got nothing but the short end of the stick.

Our preator is terrible, our terminators are garbage, our weapon upgrades have upside down bolters for fekkes sake.

Russ, wolfkin and the contemptor have been the only decent stuff we got up to this point.

Custodes and sons both got way more love.


Wolves are mangey critters any year they exist, even when there is only war....and bad paint jobs.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/10 12:40:53


Post by: Darkseid


I don't think this is a recent development; HH stuff has been hit and miss for a time now.

Most generic units are very well done; but a good part of the chapter specific ones are subpar. It started with WE Rampagers years ago. My personal low point was the Ultramarine line. A lot of potential for romanesque designs but FW didn't deliver.

That said, I like the Deadsworn but the Terminator is quite terrible.



Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 11:19:51


Post by: Mymearan


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


I think when people say “FW” they mean the Forge World resin releases, not the Specialist Games plastic stuff which is consistently excellent.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 11:31:15


Post by: tneva82


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 11:38:17


Post by: AndrewGPaul


IIRC there are still new suits of older marks being manufactured. Mostly mark 6 and mark 3 (due to its specialised design), and anything older than mark 6 is in comparatively small numbers, but they're there.

Not in Primaris size, though. That's what Mk 10 Gravis armour is.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 11:39:56


Post by: Haighus


tneva82 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.

Chapters have large stocks of power armour, and such old Marks are honoured relics. As more and more Marines are replaced by Primaris brethren over time due to casualties, at some point they will end up with a huge surplus of older power armour. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a large number of Chapters trying to modify old power armour to fit larger Marines, especially those Chapters with poor resupply or poor connections with Mars.

Remember that many Chapters produce the bulk of their own power armour. The Red Scorpions, for example, use lots of domestically produced MkIV suits, because their Chapter forge has the means to produce it.

In light of this obvious fluff justification, and because many of the early Marks are popular designs, I can see there being a release of Primaris-modified versions of older Mks. Most likely in a kit like the current Tactical squad, with a variety of older Mks mixed into one squad. Could even be part of a Intercessor Veterans unit- the Veterans being granted honoured relics painstakingly remodelled to fit their forms, and meshed with the modern gear.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 12:38:42


Post by: Theophony


 Haighus wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.

Chapters have large stocks of power armour, and such old Marks are honoured relics. As more and more Marines are replaced by Primaris brethren over time due to casualties, at some point they will end up with a huge surplus of older power armour. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a large number of Chapters trying to modify old power armour to fit larger Marines, especially those Chapters with poor resupply or poor connections with Mars.

Remember that many Chapters produce the bulk of their own power armour. The Red Scorpions, for example, use lots of domestically produced MkIV suits, because their Chapter forge has the means to produce it.

In light of this obvious fluff justification, and because many of the early Marks are popular designs, I can see there being a release of Primaris-modified versions of older Mks. Most likely in a kit like the current Tactical squad, with a variety of older Mks mixed into one squad. Could even be part of a Intercessor Veterans unit- the Veterans being granted honoured relics painstakingly remodelled to fit their forms, and meshed with the modern gear.


Now I have the image of Primaris marines in 1970s too short tennis shorts . The armor just wouldnt fit the framework of the Primaris marines. Why would they want to wear the old tech anyway with Cawl making things better with the new armor? Nostalgia? Basically I think they will just put the armor in the hall of antiques and hoarde them like my grandparents hoarded old National Geographic’s magazines and Tupperware. Sure the Tupperware was the pinnacle of food storage at the time, but nicer looking more effective and non toxic versions are better now.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 12:55:16


Post by: Haighus


 Theophony wrote:
 Haighus wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.

Chapters have large stocks of power armour, and such old Marks are honoured relics. As more and more Marines are replaced by Primaris brethren over time due to casualties, at some point they will end up with a huge surplus of older power armour. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a large number of Chapters trying to modify old power armour to fit larger Marines, especially those Chapters with poor resupply or poor connections with Mars.

Remember that many Chapters produce the bulk of their own power armour. The Red Scorpions, for example, use lots of domestically produced MkIV suits, because their Chapter forge has the means to produce it.

In light of this obvious fluff justification, and because many of the early Marks are popular designs, I can see there being a release of Primaris-modified versions of older Mks. Most likely in a kit like the current Tactical squad, with a variety of older Mks mixed into one squad. Could even be part of a Intercessor Veterans unit- the Veterans being granted honoured relics painstakingly remodelled to fit their forms, and meshed with the modern gear.


Now I have the image of Primaris marines in 1970s too short tennis shorts . The armor just wouldnt fit the framework of the Primaris marines. Why would they want to wear the old tech anyway with Cawl making things better with the new armor? Nostalgia? Basically I think they will just put the armor in the hall of antiques and hoarde them like my grandparents hoarded old National Geographic’s magazines and Tupperware. Sure the Tupperware was the pinnacle of food storage at the time, but nicer looking more effective and non toxic versions are better now.

Limited resources (although nostalgia/tradition/honour is likkely to feature a bit). Not all Chapters are as well connected as the First Foundings, many are downright scavengers due to supply issues. Once Chapters gain indigenous Primaris production, they will need to be able to equip them, and this may require heavy modification of existing power armour. Of course it won't fit by default, but Techmarines have already modified armour to fit unusually tall Marines.

We know Techmarines are very resourceful with reusing existing components and splicing multiple Mks together.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 13:21:34


Post by: tneva82


New FAQ for HH up. Magnus took quite a nerfbat. Not sure what other big differences are.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 13:32:38


Post by: zedmeister


tneva82 wrote:
New FAQ for HH up. Magnus took quite a nerfbat. Not sure what other big differences are.


Can't find the PDF link despite the new story - do you have a link to it?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 13:34:07


Post by: tneva82


 zedmeister wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
New FAQ for HH up. Magnus took quite a nerfbat. Not sure what other big differences are.


Can't find the PDF link despite the new story - do you have a link to it?


Change the sort order. That worked for me(seems to be common issue with GW FAQ's) but in any case:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Horus-Heresy-General-Errata-and-FAQ-v1.1.pdf

Noticed playtest rules which include quad gun phosphex going from heavy 4 blasts to heavy 1 5" blast. Approve!


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 14:00:34


Post by: BrookM


Ho-hum..

Malcador and Valdor Tank Variants (Pages 48, 49, 50 & 90)
For all of these unit profiles, under the heading Unit Type replace "Vehicle (Super-heavy)" with the Unit Type “Vehicle (Tank)”. Note that the Fast type is still in effect where applicable.


Been out of the loop for quite some time now, but this feels like a nerf. I guess they were too good.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 14:47:49


Post by: mortar_crew


 BrookM wrote:
Ho-hum..

Malcador and Valdor Tank Variants (Pages 48, 49, 50 & 90)
For all of these unit profiles, under the heading Unit Type replace "Vehicle (Super-heavy)" with the Unit Type “Vehicle (Tank)”. Note that the Fast type is still in effect where applicable.


Been out of the loop for quite some time now, but this feels like a nerf. I guess they were too good.



Well, it is indeed, and if it applies also for their 40K rules in the next FaQ or so,
it sure sucks big time for my (already phased out and with poor rules) renegades...


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 14:48:07


Post by: Ashiraya


AP3 axe-rakes! Woot!

Shame HH died locally a fair while ago...

Still happy to see that change made!


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 16:03:04


Post by: Peregrine


Oh there's an edition where the Malcador is playable instead of utter trash! FIX THIS OMG NERF ASAP.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 16:07:35


Post by: Red_Five


They fixed Ashen Circle!

Now only are they 5 points cheaper per model but their Axe-Rakes are now AP3 (they were AP6)! Also, they can be joined by Moriats and Chaplains (with Jetpacks)!!!

Frag and Phosphex Rapiers were nerfed pretty hard. They were Heavy 4, 3" blast, now they are Heavy 1, 5" Blast.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 17:04:19


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Red_Five wrote:
They fixed Ashen Circle!

Now only are they 5 points cheaper per model but their Axe-Rakes are now AP3 (they were AP6)! Also, they can be joined by Moriats and Chaplains (with Jetpacks)!!!

Frag and Phosphex Rapiers were nerfed pretty hard. They were Heavy 4, 3" blast, now they are Heavy 1, 5" Blast.

As someone that was running a list heavy on those and Vorbak...that almost seems broken. That's how it feels at least.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 17:45:22


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 Mymearan wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


I think when people say “FW” they mean the Forge World resin releases, not the Specialist Games plastic stuff which is consistently excellent.


Yes, I mean that too. When I say FW’s Necromunda releases I’m talking about things like the bounty hunters and the head and weapon packs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:


Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.


No, there are no Primaris marines in the 31st millennium. What there are though are space marines that are consistently described as giants in the background and a model range that utterly fails to reflect that.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 17:55:12


Post by: Red_Five


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Red_Five wrote:
They fixed Ashen Circle!

Now only are they 5 points cheaper per model but their Axe-Rakes are now AP3 (they were AP6)! Also, they can be joined by Moriats and Chaplains (with Jetpacks)!!!

Frag and Phosphex Rapiers were nerfed pretty hard. They were Heavy 4, 3" blast, now they are Heavy 1, 5" Blast.

As someone that was running a list heavy on those and Vorbak...that almost seems broken. That's how it feels at least.


I think it puts them on more of an even footing with other melee units in other armies (like the Invictarus Suzerain).


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 17:58:56


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Red_Five wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Red_Five wrote:
They fixed Ashen Circle!

Now only are they 5 points cheaper per model but their Axe-Rakes are now AP3 (they were AP6)! Also, they can be joined by Moriats and Chaplains (with Jetpacks)!!!

Frag and Phosphex Rapiers were nerfed pretty hard. They were Heavy 4, 3" blast, now they are Heavy 1, 5" Blast.

As someone that was running a list heavy on those and Vorbak...that almost seems broken. That's how it feels at least.


I think it puts them on more of an even footing with other melee units in other armies (like the Invictarus Suzerain).

Hmm, perhaps. I know for sure I might wanna play 30k again at some point with that same list, so I'm not complaining as long as it ain't considered broken.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 18:09:05


Post by: zend


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Mymearan wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Honestly the only consistently poor FW stuff is the paint jobs and the space wolf range.


I really wouldn’t go so far as the say FW is “poor”. It’s more that they’re not really any better than GW but charge higher prices. I do really like their Necromunda releases.

On the other hand, if FW ever decided to produce MkIII armour in Primaris scale, I’d be all over it.


I think when people say “FW” they mean the Forge World resin releases, not the Specialist Games plastic stuff which is consistently excellent.


Yes, I mean that too. When I say FW’s Necromunda releases I’m talking about things like the bounty hunters and the head and weapon packs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:


Primaris marines don't USE MKIII armour so makes no sense for them to have it. Why would forge worlds produce upscaled MKIII armour? As it is new suits of MKIII armours aren't built in 40k age anyway let alone upscaled one. And in 30k times primaris marines don't exist so no point in having upscaled armour marines couldn't use.


No, there are no Primaris marines in the 31st millennium. What there are though are space marines that are consistently described as giants in the background and a model range that utterly fails to reflect that.


The size of the models was fine when everything was still in house and scaled properly. Then plastic Heresy models happened and everything Forgeworld produces now looks scrawny in comparison. I bought Kharn and some Red Butchers recently and was amazed at how tiny they are compared to my Calth minis.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/11 18:19:59


Post by: hobojebus


Oh I'm pretty happy I can now attach apothecary units to my slayers without gimping myself, that's going to make getting them across the board easier.

I have a reason to make a command squad now they can join primarchs.



Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 09:12:08


Post by: BrookM


They have come for you..





Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 09:12:18


Post by: beast_gts


Edit: Ninja'd.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 09:24:58


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Peregrine wrote:
Oh there's an edition where the Malcador is playable instead of utter trash! FIX THIS OMG NERF ASAP.



WAAAIITT, They just nerfed the Malcador and it's varaints again?

Why?

I am confused?!? That thing is literally unseen, beyond a diorama here.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 09:39:07


Post by: H.B.M.C.


That chainaxe-glaive thingy the Terminator has is awesome.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 11:08:11


Post by: sockwithaticket


Those NLs would benefit massively from better paint jobs.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 11:36:08


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 sockwithaticket wrote:
Those NLs would benefit massively from better paint jobs.


These look quite good. Far better than the Space Wolf paints.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 11:40:24


Post by: sockwithaticket


 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 sockwithaticket wrote:
Those NLs would benefit massively from better paint jobs.


These look quite good. Far better than the Space Wolf paints.


The armour's decent enough (bit bright for my taste), but a lot of the detail work is distinctly average or tonally out of step. The red in particular could stand to be improved and taken back toward the more purple end of the spectrum.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 12:14:02


Post by: JSG


What are the little card things on that dreadnought?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 12:19:09


Post by: Overread


The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 12:26:04


Post by: Eiríkr


 Overread wrote:
The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.


I don't mind the corpse so much. It would look much better if it weren't so clean though, this is a piece of flesh chained up to a hulking war-machine.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 13:18:56


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Overread wrote:
The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.


Yeah, I see what you mean. As for the reason for its presence? Previous pilot, with the Dread being liberated from another Legion?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 13:21:46


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I was going to say it was a spare pilot (not quite dead yet)which is why he's not rotting


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 13:34:41


Post by: zedmeister


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Overread wrote:
The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.


Yeah, I see what you mean. As for the reason for its presence? Previous pilot, with the Dread being liberated from another Legion?


There's an image plate at the back of Book VI describing this very thing. The Leviathan was originally Ultramarines which the Nightlords helped themselves to. The previous occupant was, ahem, evicted under protest...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I was going to say it was a spare pilot (not quite dead yet)which is why he's not rotting


Absolutely needs some blood spatter and a general macabre mess across the front of it.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 17:04:37


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That chainaxe-glaive thingy the Terminator has is awesome.


Right?

Kinda reminds me of a Bloodborne weapon in looks.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 17:24:11


Post by: timd


 sockwithaticket wrote:
Those NLs would benefit massively from better paint jobs.


They seem to be moving away from the previous very dark blue color for the Night Lords, which is unfortunate as it make the lightning pointless because of the lack of contrast with the lighter blue. Even the dice are darker than these models...

T


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 18:12:04


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 zedmeister wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Overread wrote:
The only thing I don't like is that the corpse on the dreadnought just looks like its randomly stuck there. I think because its big and bulky and quite random - a chain of heads fits, but a single body just sorta chained there looks wrong. I think it would look better atop a shoulder impaled on spikes or with several bodies chained to its body.


Yeah, I see what you mean. As for the reason for its presence? Previous pilot, with the Dread being liberated from another Legion?


There's an image plate at the back of Book VI describing this very thing. The Leviathan was originally Ultramarines which the Nightlords helped themselves to. The previous occupant was, ahem, evicted under protest...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I was going to say it was a spare pilot (not quite dead yet)which is why he's not rotting


Absolutely needs some blood spatter and a general macabre mess across the front of it.

That's mildly terrifying. I like that angle.

Still needs more blood like someone said though.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/15 21:30:01


Post by: Racerguy180


MajorWesJanson wrote:
 sockwithaticket wrote:
Those NLs would benefit massively from better paint jobs.


These look quite good. Far better than the Space Wolf paints.


that's not saying much.

FW and their painters either are hamstrung by upper mgmt or just suck. I'll always look @ the unpainted model before I make a decision whether to buy it.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/16 10:17:08


Post by: Danny76


Paint jobs are ok, but either way, I really like the models (corpse just needs corpsifying..)


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/16 21:39:57


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


I just can't see past the random tash on the severed head on that praetor..what the hell is that all about.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/16 22:39:55


Post by: Lord Damocles


What happened to the chainmail texture behind the hooks on power armour praetor's loincloth?
Did it get lost in the same place as the detail from the black lump on terminator praetor's hand?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/16 22:40:16


Post by: BrookM


It looks more like a mouth that has been sewn shut.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/17 09:00:11


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


Ha. On closer inspection I think you're right. Regardless, all I can see is moustache head now.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 09:07:37


Post by: BrookM


Necromunda stuff:







Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 09:56:03


Post by: hobojebus


More models killed by a terrible paintjob, it just really kills my interest.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 10:00:22


Post by: nerdfest09


I wish the previews would be naked resin now days, these paint jobs are atrocious and extremely sub par especially when promoting a new sculpt. It does nothing to entice you at all.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 11:01:58


Post by: Looky Likey


Same terrible paint job on these as at the weekender. These are so bad I would be ashamed to post them online if they were mine.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 11:06:10


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


I'm not really impressed with that floating blob thing. looks like the sort of conversions you make as a newbie, like they just threw a lump of GS into a bits box.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 11:15:16


Post by: StormX


Yeah that blob is a bit lame. But as far as people commenting on the paint job... i don't get it, i think it looks good?

edit - I mean i would consider that good for a average skilled painter?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 11:19:58


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


You've answered your own question. For high end (and expensive stuff) like this, they should be getting the best paintjob possible to show them off, not just average. Fortunately the bare resin is much better.

And looking again, the paintjobs barely scratch average. Arturos especially, that bad white on the inner coat lining and that black splotch on the white is just laziness.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 11:47:52


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Yeah we talk about bad paint jobs for FW stuff each week, but oooff... those are rough.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 12:07:30


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah we talk about bad paint jobs for FW stuff each week, but oooff... those are rough.


Yeas they are terrible, but luckily FW always show you the unpainted resin too. I wish GW would do the same and show pictures of the built models in grey plastic, not just sprue pics. On the other hand, I also wish that FW would show the unbuilt mini too so us converters can see the actual pieces it comes in.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 12:17:11


Post by: hobojebus


 Stormatious wrote:
Yeah that blob is a bit lame. But as far as people commenting on the paint job... i don't get it, i think it looks good?

edit - I mean i would consider that good for a average skilled painter?


That looks like the garbage I did at 14 honestly it's below average.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 12:20:38


Post by: Mentlegen324


I agree that the paintjob on those is pretty poor, but other than the carelessness (on the first model it even seems some of the metal colour has ended up directly on their right hand) I can't quite figure out specifically why they look so bad. They remind me of models where someones bought the entirely wrong sort of paints.

Aruros is a fairly nice model in itself, but the other two look a bit uninspired, really. That Wyrdlock seems to be just the old Renegade Psyker with the two back poles removed, am i missing something?



Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 12:21:10


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah we talk about bad paint jobs for FW stuff each week, but oooff... those are rough.


Yeas they are terrible, but luckily FW always show you the unpainted resin too. I wish GW would do the same and show pictures of the built models in grey plastic, not just sprue pics. On the other hand, I also wish that FW would show the unbuilt mini too so us converters can see the actual pieces it comes in.


It would be nice if FW did more 360s and parts layouts. And GW ought to update their older kits with 360 and sprue pics, not just the new ones

The paint job on these, I'd be fairly happy to achieve that result myself, but I rarely actually enjoy the painting side of the hobby. If GW is taking over the 40K rules side of things from FW, maybe Eavy Metal team should take over the painting as well.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 13:27:15


Post by: Eiríkr


Sweet beans, another lump of resin utterly ruined by a terrible paintjob.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 17:11:21


Post by: Umbros



If everyone painted to that standard at least, it would be great, but for that to be a professional paint job for Forgeworld is disgraceful. I've got models on the GW webstore that are better painted...


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 17:47:17


Post by: Burnage


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I agree that the paintjob on those is pretty poor, but other than the carelessness (on the first model it even seems some of the metal colour has ended up directly on their right hand) I can't quite figure out specifically why they look so bad. They remind me of models where someones bought the entirely wrong sort of paints.


It's the skin.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 17:51:31


Post by: Togusa


Spoiler:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Back in the day FW releases where a "WOAH!" when normal GW was much lower but I'm sorry, at this point I think is clear GW has surpased FW in every aspect. I don't even know how they justify their premium price any more.


Honestly, until a couple of years ago I was badly tempted by Horus Heresy. I’d look at Forgeworld releases thinking their minis are better than GW’s, their art is better, their books are more of a joy to read. Since 8th Edition my opinion has totally reversed. GW have upped their game on all fronts, whereas FW just aren’t that good anymore.

I’m starting to think Horus Heresy needs a complete reboot, at least for me to be interested in it again. In the meantime, the only thing I got excited about from the Weekender was the Necromunda news.


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Spoiler:


Wow. If Mantic had released this, they'd have been slated (by half the people saying these are ok).

GW's sculpts and paint jobs have been out of the park recently - even if they're not the style I like, but these FW offerings seem like GW are trying to get FW shut down.


To be fair, I quite like the Deathsworn but I’d never buy them because Heresy is stuck with the old stumpy marines. Once I’d seen Primaris, I just can’t look past how horribly proportioned old marines are.
[/spoiler]

HH does need a reboot, but there isn't any good way to do it without chancing destroying the community in the process. When GW started releasing plastic kits for it, I thought for sure that the basic units would all go full plastic, and that FW would transition to Characters, Primarchs, upgrade kits and specialty units along side the rules and lore. But that hasn't happened.




Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 17:52:19


Post by: Not Online!!!


That Floaty one is literally a modified Rogue psyker one........

But he they went oop they said.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 17:52:24


Post by: Crimson


The problem with these recent FW paintjobs is that the style is very soft and the shadows do not clearly follow the shapes of the model, nor are the edges strongly highlighted. Even if someone for some reason would like this style, it is not good for displaying a product one wants to sell, as it obfuscates the actual shapes of the models.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 18:18:19


Post by: Agamemnon2


 Togusa wrote:

GW's sculpts and paint jobs have been out of the park recently - even if they're not the style I like, but these FW offerings seem like GW are trying to get FW shut down.


That's exactly it. I've no doubt that GW wants to get rid of as much of their resin miniatures range as possible. Removal of Forge World's 40k model range is the first step, wrapping up Horus Heresy is another. They'd much rather FW just focused on disposable niche stuff for marginal games like Blood Bowl.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 18:21:11


Post by: Crimson


 Agamemnon2 wrote:

That's exactly it. I've no doubt that GW wants to get rid of as much of their resin miniatures range as possible. Removal of Forge World's 40k model range is the first step, wrapping up Horus Heresy is another. They'd much rather FW just focused on disposable niche stuff for marginal games like Blood Bowl.

Well, personally i'm glad FW is doing characterful miniatures instead of million mildly different variations of ugly squat-marines and doors for their vehicles.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 18:29:15


Post by: hobojebus


 Burnage wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
I agree that the paintjob on those is pretty poor, but other than the carelessness (on the first model it even seems some of the metal colour has ended up directly on their right hand) I can't quite figure out specifically why they look so bad. They remind me of models where someones bought the entirely wrong sort of paints.


It's the skin.


Metals are super flat and the shading is garbage.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 18:29:19


Post by: Agamemnon2


Five years from now, and I'm sure they won't be doing anything at all.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 18:32:05


Post by: Crimson


 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Five years from now, and I'm sure they won't be doing anything at all.

Possible. I really never understood why they need to be a separate division in the first place. Why can't the FW team be folded int the main GW team and the models be sold on the main GW website along with all other models?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 18:53:30


Post by: Racerguy180


H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah we talk about bad paint jobs for FW stuff each week, but oooff... those are rough.



Another FW release and another terrible FW paintjob.

In spite of the painting, I really want to work on Rumpole! Blobbity mcbloberson could look cool but I'm not sure just how much the model itself is making the paint look bad or vice-versa.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 19:15:45


Post by: oni


And the Lazy Sculptor of the Year award goes to... This thing.



This thing literally looks like a 4 year old child rolled Play-Doh through some W40K bitz and FW thought "Fantastic! Let's cast it."

This is seriously the dumbest fething model I've ever seen. Who thought that this thing would be worth investing time and effort into?




Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 19:47:09


Post by: Gimgamgoo


FW are supposed to be the specialist section of GW. That implies to me that the stuff they do is better and pricier than GW models.

As a Newcromunda "buyer of everything", I stop here.

Even Mantic have Angel Giraldez painting their newest models now.
Spoiler:


I'd rather see bare resin or metal to the recent FW stuff.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 19:52:15


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 Gimgamgoo wrote:
FW are supposed to be the specialist section of GW. That implies to me that the stuff they do is better and pricier than GW models.

As a Newcromunda "buyer of everything", I stop here.

Even Mantic have Angel Giraldez painting their newest models now.
Spoiler:


I'd rather see bare resin or metal to the recent FW stuff.


I find the problem with Angel Giraldez is that he is so incredibly good I find myself suspicious that he’s made a mediocre mini look amazing

I always judge the minis on the bare resin regardless of how good the painting is anyway.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 19:53:46


Post by: ghosty


I actually quite like it. I think it's cool that 40k is exploring some of the more interesting aspects of its lore and its people; they're not all just musclebound and heroically handsome anymore.

The miniature is grotesque, as an inbred mutant psyker should be, and outlandish, as a Dramatis Personae in Necromunda should be. It's got a very Blanchian vibe to it, and I think it has a lot going for it. Admittedly the paintjob is not fantastic, but it's certainly better than I can achieve, so I wouldn't presume to insult it.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 19:57:44


Post by: Elbows


Yeah, Forgeworld genuinely needs to go with top-tier paintjobs, or none at all. The paintwork they're doing is damaging the impression I get of their miniatures in a big way.

And I say that as someone who paints about the level they've been showing of lately....and I'm saying that's nowhere near good enough to use as advertisement. They're hiding the quality of their sculpts under really mediocre brushwork. I can't believe someone in charge thinks it's an acceptable level to promote.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/22 21:53:54


Post by: Original Timmy


Those paint jobs are terrible yet again, ive seen smaller companies employ the services of better painters, dont FW realise that a wicked paint job helps sell a mini and im sure their paint jobs used to be loads better in the past!

As for the minis i dont mind them, the re-purposed Physker is a bit lazy but i like the floating blob apart from the hands on the mechanical tentacles but they are easily snipped off!


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/23 19:11:04


Post by: Peregrine


Good to see this thread is as predictable and constructive as ever. A new release is posted with a paint job better than what 95% of players can do, and all we get is the same old page after page of people whining about how "awful" it is.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/23 19:38:23


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Peregrine wrote:
Good to see this thread is as predictable and constructive as ever. A new release is posted with a paint job better than what 95% of players can do, and all we get is the same old page after page of people whining about how "awful" it is.

You don't have to be a chef to know if the food you're tasting is terrible.

With that said, the paint jobs do the minimum of showing details while, well, painted. That's perfectly fine. You can't deny a couple of the recent ones (that crocodile monster one especially) were simply BAD.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/23 20:11:25


Post by: Rayvon


Mantic need Angel Giraldez painting them to make the gakky minis look half decent.






I always look at the resin versions anyway myself as even these gakky paint jobs are out of my league...



Saying that though, these poor paint jobs definitely make the models look a lot worse than they are and only serve to put people off.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/23 20:40:26


Post by: Modock


 Rayvon wrote:
Mantic need Angel Giraldez painting them to make the gakky minis look half decent.






I always look at the resin versions anyway myself as even these gakky paint jobs are out of my league...



Saying that though, these poor paint jobs definitely make the models look a lot worse than they are and only serve to put people off.


Actually Mantic has produced some nice minis lately. Some of the resin minis are quite good. The new goblins are more sophisticated and better sculpted then GW ones.


Paint job helps a lot but not even Sergio Calvio could save these FW atrocities.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/23 21:11:20


Post by: Zywus


 ghosty wrote:
Admittedly the paintjob is not fantastic, but it's certainly better than I can achieve, so I wouldn't presume to insult it.

Unless you also happen to be a professional painter getting paid to paint display models for a multimillion company, then insult away.

I would never talk bad about those paintjobs if I ran across them in a tournament or something, painted by a random dude. They're decent tabletop quality at least and perhaps more. But as a paintjob to showcase these (sometimes) extremely detailed and (always) expensive resin minis, made for a niche audience, they don't pass the mustard. They deserve a degree mockery and insult, regardless of how well we consumers can paint.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/23 21:19:18


Post by: Galas


 Peregrine wrote:
Good to see this thread is as predictable and constructive as ever. A new release is posted with a paint job better than what 95% of players can do, and all we get is the same old page after page of people whining about how "awful" it is.


With how ironic this post his coming from you, I don't know if it is genuine or a "joke".


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/23 21:23:10


Post by: BrookM


Okay guys, let's get back on track here with news and rumours. Kindly take discussion of the paint jobs to a thread of its own, thanks!


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/24 01:32:17


Post by: BaronIveagh


 BrookM wrote:
Okay guys, let's get back on track here with news and rumours. Kindly take discussion of the paint jobs to a thread of its own, thanks!


Sorry, Boss, but it and the horrendous sculpts are sort of the Elephant, or at least the Jagdtiger, in the room.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/24 15:29:47


Post by: alleus


I don't think it's that big of a deal, I'd rather look at the unpainted models for reference anyway.

What I DO think is a big deal however, is the lack of big releases. We had the weekender, but the new Black Book is still not out, and more importantly (for me): the new Dreadnought Drop Pod is not out either!

GIVE ME MY BIG BOY DROP POD


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/24 15:37:52


Post by: ImAGeek


 alleus wrote:
I don't think it's that big of a deal, I'd rather look at the unpainted models for reference anyway.

What I DO think is a big deal however, is the lack of big releases. We had the weekender, but the new Black Book is still not out, and more importantly (for me): the new Dreadnought Drop Pod is not out either!

GIVE ME MY BIG BOY DROP POD


Reports from the weekender said the book would be March.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/26 01:15:39


Post by: hobojebus


Wonder if we'll see the dark angels before 2020.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/26 06:07:08


Post by: ImAGeek


hobojebus wrote:
Wonder if we'll see the dark angels before 2020.


We won’t get book 9 before 2020, no. We might see some models later in the year maybe.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/02/26 12:38:19


Post by: hobojebus


 ImAGeek wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
Wonder if we'll see the dark angels before 2020.


We won’t get book 9 before 2020, no. We might see some models later in the year maybe.


They were one book at one point but you're right probably match next year.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 09:06:28


Post by: BrookM


Blood Bowl Nurgle Rotspawn (€25,-) https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Nurgle-Rotspawn-2019





Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 09:27:57


Post by: H.B.M.C.


He's adorable.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 09:39:31


Post by: Jackal90


Anyone else seen the film "teeth"?
That's all I can think of seeing this dudes face.


Apart from that it's a fairly nice model though.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 10:24:28


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


It's alright but nothing even a fairly new Modeller couldn't knock up with some GS and current nurgle parts..


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 10:49:51


Post by: Rayvon


Love this guy !



 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
It's alright but nothing even a fairly new Modeller couldn't knock up with some GS and current nurgle parts..


Sure,
Lets see your effort then.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 11:07:02


Post by: Jackal90


I think some people severely underestimate how difficult sculpting actually is.
It's not quite as simple as getting out the GS and magically a model appears.
Even getting flat or contoured surfaces is difficult unless you do it often.

Alot of professional sculptors will tell you that it's still not easy despite the ton of experience they have had.

The model is fairly plain looking, but I like that.
It's bloodbowl so these models won't have a metric ton of armour and accessories hanging off them.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 11:34:38


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


Jackal90 wrote:
I think some people severely underestimate how difficult sculpting actually is.
It's not quite as simple as getting out the GS and magically a model appears.
Even getting flat or contoured surfaces is difficult unless you do it often.

Alot of professional sculptors will tell you that it's still not easy despite the ton of experience they have had.

The model is fairly plain looking, but I like that.
It's bloodbowl so these models won't have a metric ton of armour and accessories hanging off them.


If course sculpting isn't easy. But nurgle stuff is very forgiving. I just dont think much of that sculpt. The hand over the rim looks good, but the rest doesn't really impress me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Rayvon wrote:
Love this guy !



 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
It's alright but nothing even a fairly new Modeller couldn't knock up with some GS and current nurgle parts..


Sure,
Lets see your effort then.


Sorry what? A little childish don't you think?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 12:35:17


Post by: Rayvon


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Sorry what? A little childish don't you think?




You were the one that said any new modeller could do better, just because you didn't like it, that sounds pretty childish to me.




Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 12:41:25


Post by: Jackal90


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Jackal90 wrote:
I think some people severely underestimate how difficult sculpting actually is.
It's not quite as simple as getting out the GS and magically a model appears.
Even getting flat or contoured surfaces is difficult unless you do it often.

Alot of professional sculptors will tell you that it's still not easy despite the ton of experience they have had.

The model is fairly plain looking, but I like that.
It's bloodbowl so these models won't have a metric ton of armour and accessories hanging off them.


If course sculpting isn't easy. But nurgle stuff is very forgiving. I just dont think much of that sculpt. The hand over the rim looks good, but the rest doesn't really impress me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Rayvon wrote:
Love this guy !



 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
It's alright but nothing even a fairly new Modeller couldn't knock up with some GS and current nurgle parts..


Sure,
Lets see your effort then.


Sorry what? A little childish don't you think?



Nurgle is indeed forgiving to sculpting mistakes as they tend to fit in quite well.
This isn't the case here.
The surfaces are clean and well purposed.
The model as a whole fits perfectly and nothing stands out.

Being able to make a few mistakes and hiding them is one thing, but this model isn't one of those cases.
This model is still very far from easy to sculpt and it's far beyond the capabilities of a "newer" modeller.

I'd say that it's more for some of the top sculptors here on dakka (Navarro for one)


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 13:15:52


Post by: hobojebus


Meh.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 13:21:51


Post by: MajorWesJanson


Sad it isn't new Titan weapons in either scale. But this is one of those cases where the paint job is well done, and enhances the model over the bare resin, rather than the opposite.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 13:34:23


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


On the plus side at least the paint job on this one is good.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 14:08:58


Post by: Rayvon


I would have liked some Titan weapons to be honest, not played BB for a while, still waiting for my teams.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 15:03:16


Post by: spiralingcadaver


Re: ease sculpting, I agree it's relatively simple, but is it worth more to you to spend the time making one for cheap or to buy one and paint or play more?

I'm reasonably accomplished sculpting, but would usually prefer spending that time improving kits. If making my version of kits, it's usually trying to tweak things, like getting a new character out of a basic kit than trying my hand at blob monsters and getting the proportions right.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 16:40:23


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


I'm not saying I would sculpt that, what I'm saying is that it doesn't really look upto scratch with the regular quality of forge world models in terms of detail. It seems a little lacklustre. I mean, the only thing that marks it as bloodbowl is the slightly less armour more football pad shoulder plates. Seems like a bit of a lazy effort. Other than that it's just a normal nurgle slug. It just doesn't look like it belongs in bloodbowl. How's that thing supposed to be effective on a football field?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 16:55:00


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


Wow, another hard pass from FW. This is my surprised face.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 17:10:20


Post by: spiralingcadaver


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I'm not saying I would sculpt that, what I'm saying is that it doesn't really look upto scratch with the regular quality of forge world models in terms of detail. It seems a little lacklustre.
Oh, got it. Yeah, I feel like FW has actually slipped a lot in the last few years, and it's just less noticeable on more geometric/embellished kits. I think they've been pretty inconsistent, with a few solid kits and a lot of misses or at least unremarkable ones, which has become more notable recently with the combination of GW proper's better quality and FW's lazy painting.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 18:10:50


Post by: alleus


Another week, another release that is not the new Dreadnought Drop Pod or Malevolence book. It's making me sad.. the model is fun though, and a great paintjob unlike the other recent models from FW lately.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 19:07:55


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 19:17:00


Post by: gorgon


 alleus wrote:
Another week, another release that is not the new Dreadnought Drop Pod or Malevolence book. It's making me sad.. the model is fun though, and a great paintjob unlike the other recent models from FW lately.


LOL. When was the atomantic pavaise first previewed? Two years ago?

These things will arrive when they arrive. Or not.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/08 19:19:24


Post by: Jackal90


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.



That's like parking a Lamborghini next to a Ford Mondeo and complaining the Mondeo is trash.
For the sheer price difference and the fact that primarchs are part of the character series I hope they are better than a cheap model.

And to be fair, some of the primarch models put most thing to shame aswell.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/09 07:36:06


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


Not really, it's about what forge world is capable of. I know it's only 1/4 the price of the later primarchs, but it looks more like something from a GW set to me.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/09 07:37:38


Post by: ImAGeek


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Not really, it's about what forge world is capable of. I know it's only 1/4 the price of the later primarchs, but it looks more like something from a GW set to me.


Games Workshop are getting closer and closer to what Forge World put out, for the most part. Surpassing them, in some areas, lately.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/09 23:34:33


Post by: Haighus


 gorgon wrote:
 alleus wrote:
Another week, another release that is not the new Dreadnought Drop Pod or Malevolence book. It's making me sad.. the model is fun though, and a great paintjob unlike the other recent models from FW lately.


LOL. When was the atomantic pavaise first previewed? Two years ago?

These things will arrive when they arrive. Or not.

When was Bran Redmaw teased again*?



*Yes, I know there was some issue with the master...


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/09 23:39:08


Post by: Togusa


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.


I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/10 07:41:50


Post by: Eldarain


No.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/10 08:23:24


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.


I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.



what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/10 08:36:32


Post by: Mr_Rose


I keep saying this but the reason Robot Guilleman looks so weird is because Cawl went all Robocop on him; that’s also why Yvraine told him to never try to take his armour off – it’s armour all the way down.

The real question, of course, is what did Cawl do with the rest of Bobby’s corpse…


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/10 10:11:45


Post by: Yodhrin


It's not even just the proportions though. The FW model is Guilliman - the pose, the facial expression, the armour detailing, even the often-maligned scenic base, it all contributes to a sense of regal, commanding reserve that perfectly fits his character.

40K Rowboat is just Big Action Dude Posing Onna Rock #72617, with ludicrous over-detailing and a face like he's trying to take a really troublesome gak. And also, yeah, the awful proportions.

The vast majority of the time model preference is a matter of opinion, but the 40K Rowboat is objectively a worse representation of the character than the FW Heresy model.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/10 16:45:28


Post by: Crimson


 Yodhrin wrote:
It's not even just the proportions though. The FW model is Guilliman - the pose, the facial expression, the armour detailing, even the often-maligned scenic base, it all contributes to a sense of regal, commanding reserve that perfectly fits his character.

40K Rowboat is just Big Action Dude Posing Onna Rock #72617, with ludicrous over-detailing and a face like he's trying to take a really troublesome gak. And also, yeah, the awful proportions.

The vast majority of the time model preference is a matter of opinion, but the 40K Rowboat is objectively a worse representation of the character than the FW Heresy model.

They're both kinda bad. Neither looks like a 40K model. They look like 55mm scale models that someone accidentally put on the 40K table. One just tries to be realistic whilst another is cartoony, neither of them belong. After seeing the new Abaddon I am more sure about this than ever. It is a better version of a 'primarch-scale' model than any Primarchs either the main studio or FW has produced.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/10 18:27:45


Post by: warboss


 Yodhrin wrote:
It's not even just the proportions though. The FW model is Guilliman - the pose, the facial expression, the armour detailing, even the often-maligned scenic base, it all contributes to a sense of regal, commanding reserve that perfectly fits his character.

40K Rowboat is just Big Action Dude Posing Onna Rock #72617, with ludicrous over-detailing and a face like he's trying to take a really troublesome gak. And also, yeah, the awful proportions.

The vast majority of the time model preference is a matter of opinion, but the 40K Rowboat is objectively a worse representation of the character than the FW Heresy model.


I agree. I mean this in no disrepect to those who like the model but I can't really describe it in any other way.... the GW plastic version looks to me what a primarch would look like if sculpted specifically for a 7 year old. It's malproportioned even by 40k standards and is overly gaudy without style as if trying to overcompensate for something. It's the tabletop equivalent visually of the Playskool Galactic Heroes if they had extra bling for no reason compared with more adult black series of figs for the Forgeworld equivalent. Obviously YMMV. The new Abaddon model though is an example of how GW should have done the primarch so at least they seem to be improving somewhat recently.



Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 00:51:45


Post by: BrotherGecko


I could see why people like the FW Guilliman but just try to imagine a reasonably proportioned human body inside of that powered armor. My dude has a Olson Twin body with a watermelon head.

The GW Guilliman has the same issue however.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 01:44:01


Post by: H.B.M.C.


*shrugs*

I like both Gilly models.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 03:15:15


Post by: Togusa


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.


I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.



what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.


Don't know what to tell ya, I have both and I think the 40K model is light-years better than the 30K one.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 03:32:56


Post by: warboss


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*shrugs*

I like both Gilly models.


No issues there despite my misgivings regarding the model. Contrary to popular belief, people are allowed to have different opinions on the internet. Now... this Ultramarine is much more to my liking!

Spoiler:


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 05:09:19


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I don't like Primaris Marines and even I like that Lt.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 08:54:52


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.


I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.



what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.


Don't know what to tell ya, I have both and I think the 40K model is light-years better than the 30K one.



Fair enough, i'm not saying you cant have that opinion, I just don't understand why you would?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 09:05:34


Post by: Duskweaver


 Mr_Rose wrote:
I keep saying this but the reason Robot Guilleman looks so weird is because Cawl went all Robocop on him; that’s also why Yvraine told him to never try to take his armour off – it’s armour all the way down.

And yet he's without his armour for most of his 'screen time' in Watchers of the Throne and seems just fine. Chancellor Tieron even comments on it in his internal monologue.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 09:22:50


Post by: Earth127


One way or another that is a continuity error.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 13:29:45


Post by: MeanGreenStompa


 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.


I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.



what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.


Don't know what to tell ya, I have both and I think the 40K model is light-years better than the 30K one.


There's no accounting for taste, or lack thereof.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 13:36:51


Post by: Tavis75




I guess that means he's quite likely to be released this Friday then, imagine I will pick him up as I want to get the scenic base which sounds like it's going to be a limited release, which is a bit of a shame as out of all the Primarch models this is probably the one where the scenic base adds the most to the appearance of the model.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 14:08:18


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Scenic base is, so far as I'm aware, a Warhammer World and Event Exclusive.

Thankfully, some handsome, dashing idiot has a Facebook Group for that


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 14:53:58


Post by: tneva82


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:


Sorry what? A little childish don't you think?


Well you made claim. And i for one call bull on that one. Is it easy to make claims when you don't intend to prove it? But guess your replw proves you can't get anywhere as good looking sculpt.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 16:17:07


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


tneva82 wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:


Sorry what? A little childish don't you think?


Well you made claim. And i for one call bull on that one. Is it easy to make claims when you don't intend to prove it? But guess your replw proves you can't get anywhere as good looking sculpt.



No, you're trying to goad me into saying something like 'yeah I can sculpt' and providing a photo which you will then say 'see that's not as good as a FW sculptor' eg, being childish.

Im not going to indulge you however. I stand by my original statement, and disregarding whether I can sculpt or not (which you will now never know) ' you don't have to be a chef to know the food tastes bad' as the saying goes.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 16:23:26


Post by: Tavis75


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Scenic base is, so far as I'm aware, a Warhammer World and Event Exclusive.

Thankfully, some handsome, dashing idiot has a Facebook Group for that


I believe it will be available on the website initially, and then become an event\WHW exclusive. That was certainly stated when it was first previewed and today's post also says that the scenic base will be available for a limited time (which I'm assuming means online).


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 21:28:09


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


Glad I picked one up at the weekender then


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/11 22:19:53


Post by: Togusa


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.


I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.



what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions. And that flaming sword? Lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now the daemon primarchs on the other hand.. They are amazing models. I hope they make a daemon Angron to the same standard as Magnus.


Don't know what to tell ya, I have both and I think the 40K model is light-years better than the 30K one.



Fair enough, i'm not saying you cant have that opinion, I just don't understand why you would?


It's just aesthetics I guess. To be honest I can't think of a single model that GW makes that I would say I don't like. Maybe the old Warp Spiders? They look pretty bad.

Now. Something I will say is that you can definitely see how the 40K Roboute seems to share design elements with modern "MOBA" style video game characters. I won't say if that is good or bad or not, but it's apparent the sculptor took some influence from there for him.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 11:01:15


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


I think its too cartoony if that is the case... I prefer the more serious, Romanesque feel of the FW style. I think they look better on the shelf.
Its also weird that GW seem to go back and forth on the aesthetic on things like that. The aforementioned daemon Magnus, compared to say, the AoS troggoth things, and even internally amongst the same range, some of the Primaris Lieutenants compared to them silly transformer looking jetpack inceptors for example.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 13:33:37


Post by: Platuan4th




Wow, Sanguinius' pose looks even more awkward and silly from head on. He goes from surfer dude to lord of the dance.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 14:17:22


Post by: warboss


I'm assuming there will be a greater Khorne demon posed to look like he's getting up from a waterbed to complete the diorama given Sanguinius' directional gaze.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 14:20:51


Post by: BrotherGecko


It is a cool display model with a cool display pose and is just awkward and silly on the table top.

Unfortunately, they keep making the primarch models in display poses rather than battlefield poses. So good if your interested in buying a primarch to paint and show off and terrible if your intending to use the primarch on the tabletop and wanted something that looked like it was "there".




Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 14:28:21


Post by: Crimson


Primarchs make more sense as display models anyway. They don't look like Warhammer models and will look wrong on tabletop regardless, as they're done in completely different style.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 14:42:39


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


Don't judge sanguinius from photos. You need to see him in the flesh.

Also, he really needs the display base. I won't be using that open hand at all.. Will probably save it for converting some other primarch model. If I didn't have the display base I would have to adjust that hand somehow too.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 14:49:11


Post by: warboss


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Don't judge sanguinius from photos. You need to see him in the flesh.


It's a $100+ USD model. I suspect that the vast majority of Blood Angel players like myself will only see it in photo form before making a decision as to whether or not to buy it. YMMV.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 14:50:57


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 BrotherGecko wrote:
It is a cool display model with a cool display pose and is just awkward and silly on the table top.

Unfortunately, they keep making the primarch models in display poses rather than battlefield poses. So good if your interested in buying a primarch to paint and show off and terrible if your intending to use the primarch on the tabletop and wanted something that looked like it was "there".




I suspect that most of the Primarch miniatures sold have been for display. Even amongst the Heresy players I know, all of us have our Primarch, but we don't really use them in games. Then there's the people with more than one (I've got four at the moment ).


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 15:19:36


Post by: Red_Five


 BrotherGecko wrote:
It is a cool display model with a cool display pose and is just awkward and silly on the table top.

Unfortunately, they keep making the primarch models in display poses rather than battlefield poses. So good if your interested in buying a primarch to paint and show off and terrible if your intending to use the primarch on the tabletop and wanted something that looked like it was "there".




I feel like Primarchs are display models that happen to come with rules. None of them are really well suited to battlefield use, even the ones with basic poses (like Lorgar or Horus).


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 15:36:36


Post by: Looky Likey


 Red_Five wrote:
I feel like Primarchs are display models that happen to come with rules. None of them are really well suited to battlefield use, even the ones with basic poses (like Lorgar or Horus).
I have to disagree with that, plenty of them look fine in their gaming base, they aren't even Contemptor big:
Spoiler:





Its mostly the flying/jumping ones that look silly on the table


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 15:39:01


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


I forgot how amazing Alpharius looks.

I WANT MORE HELMETS DAMMIT


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 15:54:55


Post by: Crimson


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I WANT MORE HELMETS DAMMIT

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Ultramarines-MkIV-Praetorian-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Iron-Hands-Legion-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Raven-Guard-MKVI-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Word-Bearers-MKIV-Upgrade-Pack-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/World-Eaters-Legion-MKII-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Thousand-Sons-Mk-IV-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Sons-of-Horus-MKIV-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Thousand-Sons-Achean-pattern-Armour-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Salamanders-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Night-Lords-Legion-Terror-Squad-Upgrade-Pack-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/White-Scars-Mk-II-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Legion-MKIII-Command-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Legion-MKIV-Command-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/World-Eaters-Legion-MKII-Upgrade-Set-Veteran-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Dark-Angels-Legion-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Blood-Angels-Legion-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Imperial-Fists-MK-III-Upgrade-Set-Veteran-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Emperor-s-Children-MKIV-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/alpha-legion-mk-iv-heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Iron-Warriors-Legion-MKII-Heads

So how many more you need? I mean there is more, I didn't bother to link the sets that come packed with torsos. Also, FYI, pretty much all marine plastic multipart kits come with some extra helmets.



Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 15:57:29


Post by: Red_Five


 Looky Likey wrote:
 Red_Five wrote:
I feel like Primarchs are display models that happen to come with rules. None of them are really well suited to battlefield use, even the ones with basic poses (like Lorgar or Horus).
I have to disagree with that, plenty of them look fine in their gaming base, they aren't even Contemptor big:
Spoiler:





Its mostly the flying/jumping ones that look silly on the table


The models are difficult to reasonably hide thanks to how much taller primarchs are (compared to normal marines) and the fact that they are all on raised platforms. Also, Russ hangs over the edge of his base by quite a bit, which is a real pet peeve of mine (not everyone finds this annoying but I certainly do). Alpharius is probably the best of the bunch but, let us be honest here, his base is also super forgettable and boring. I will grant you, they are WAY better as usable models than something like Cruz or Fulgrim but they are not really ideal either.

Give and take, I suppose.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 16:01:58


Post by: Red Corsair


 Crimson wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I WANT MORE HELMETS DAMMIT

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Ultramarines-MkIV-Praetorian-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Iron-Hands-Legion-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Raven-Guard-MKVI-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Word-Bearers-MKIV-Upgrade-Pack-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/World-Eaters-Legion-MKII-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Thousand-Sons-Mk-IV-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Sons-of-Horus-MKIV-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Thousand-Sons-Achean-pattern-Armour-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Salamanders-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Night-Lords-Legion-Terror-Squad-Upgrade-Pack-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/White-Scars-Mk-II-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Legion-MKIII-Command-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Legion-MKIV-Command-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/World-Eaters-Legion-MKII-Upgrade-Set-Veteran-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Dark-Angels-Legion-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Blood-Angels-Legion-Heads-Upgrade-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Imperial-Fists-MK-III-Upgrade-Set-Veteran-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Emperor-s-Children-MKIV-Upgrade-Set-Heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/alpha-legion-mk-iv-heads
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Iron-Warriors-Legion-MKII-Heads

So how many more you need? I mean there is more, I didn't bother to link the sets that come packed with torsos. Also, FYI, pretty much all marine plastic multipart kits come with some extra helmets.



Pretty sure he meant helmets for primarchs.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 16:05:42


Post by: Crimson


 Red Corsair wrote:

Pretty sure he meant helmets for primarchs.

Yes. So glue on a primarch. Due their different proportions, their heads aren't really noticeably, if at all, bigger.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 16:18:52


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


Why does everyone get a rage on about primarch helmets? They're supposed to be centre piece models.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 16:31:22


Post by: Irbis


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.

I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.

what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions.

If by "proportions" you mean "garbage heroic scale that makes characters look like children" then yes, they did use that, because 40K Rob actually looks like a strongly built man:

Spoiler:

Not only 1:5 head proportions make 30K one look like a kid, a kid with abnormally long legs and tiny torso at that. If that is good proportions to you, then I don't know what to say.

[Before someone complains head sizes don't match the minis, I scaled the pictures to the mini, if you take correction for the bulk of the armour both heads are same size as photos]


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 16:43:41


Post by: zedmeister


Here's an actual comparison picture:



Proportions and sizing is very very similar.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 16:44:12


Post by: spiralingcadaver


Both heads are a little off in either direction (in the 40k example exaggerated by the top-heavy armor), but I personally can't deal with 40k with those 40k legs. Like, seriously, look at that body builder's thighs and tell me RG's legs would fit in that armor, without him having tiny little withered legs and dislocating both hips.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 16:49:49


Post by: Bobthehero


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Why does everyone get a rage on about primarch helmets? They're supposed to be centre piece models.


Rule of cool?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 17:06:50


Post by: Red_Five


 Irbis wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Look at the primarch models.. Most (looking at mincing fulgrim here) of them are absolute masterpieces of sculpture and model design. They are miniature works of art. Compared to that, it's just a bit meh.

I dunno about that, 40K Roboute is FAR superior in sculpt than that weak baby-faced one from HH.

what have you been smoking?! ...Absolutely not. The 40k Guilliman looks terrible. Big barrel chest, tiny head, tiny chicken quads and massive flared calves.. Its like they used an opposite machine on all his proportions.

If by "proportions" you mean "garbage heroic scale that makes characters look like children" then yes, they did use that, because 40K Rob actually looks like a strongly built man:

Spoiler:

Not only 1:5 head proportions make 30K one look like a kid, a kid with abnormally long legs and tiny torso at that. If that is good proportions to you, then I don't know what to say.

[Before someone complains head sizes don't match the minis, I scaled the pictures to the mini, if you take correction for the bulk of the armour both heads are same size as photos]


40k Rob does not look like a strongly built man. He looks like a baby inside of a giant robot suit. His body is much too large for the size of his head.

if you want a good example of when 40k does a big model justice, it is the new 40k Abaddon model.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 17:09:30


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Crimson wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:

Pretty sure he meant helmets for primarchs.

Yes. So glue on a primarch. Due their different proportions, their heads aren't really noticeably, if at all, bigger.

While that's true, the helmets are distinct. We know what Lionel's and Vulkan's helmets look like, and Alpharius is damn gorgeous.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 18:06:41


Post by: Galas


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:

Pretty sure he meant helmets for primarchs.

Yes. So glue on a primarch. Due their different proportions, their heads aren't really noticeably, if at all, bigger.

While that's true, the helmets are distinct. We know what Lionel's and Vulkan's helmets look like, and Alpharius is damn gorgeous.


Yeah, Primarchs have the opportunity to wear the fanciest helmets of the galaxy, ones that would a Dire Avenger cry of envy. If Lion El'Johnson doesn't comes with an helmet with the biggest feathers of the galaxy I'LL RIOT.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 18:14:57


Post by: BrotherGecko


 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Both heads are a little off in either direction (in the 40k example exaggerated by the top-heavy armor), but I personally can't deal with 40k with those 40k legs. Like, seriously, look at that body builder's thighs and tell me RG's legs would fit in that armor, without him having tiny little withered legs and dislocating both hips.


Both of them would have pencil legs and arms with barrel chests and giant heads.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 18:22:19


Post by: Jackal90


I think that without the fancy base, sanguinius really looks awkward and the pose just seems ridiculessly strange.
I'll happily pay for the base just so it doesn't look terrible.

Has to be the first time ive seen a base make such a dramatic difference in a model too.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 21:36:48


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


 Bobthehero wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Why does everyone get a rage on about primarch helmets? They're supposed to be centre piece models.


Rule of cool?



the rule of cool clearly states that wearing helmets is not cool. if you want an example then EVERY holly wood action move.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 21:43:38


Post by: farmersboy


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Bobthehero wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Why does everyone get a rage on about primarch helmets? They're supposed to be centre piece models.


Rule of cool?



the rule of cool clearly states that wearing helmets is not cool. if you want an example then EVERY holly wood action move.


And then you see that scene in Saving Private Ryan where he takes helmet off to admire the bullet hole in it, and gets shot in the head.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 22:02:56


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


there are exceptions... I'm a military man, When I'm on exercise or on ops I will be wearing my helmet. however. as a painter, the primarch models have gotta be unhelmed. its about the character.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 22:35:31


Post by: Bobthehero


I think wearing helmets are cool


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 22:45:41


Post by: Rayvon


Im surprised to see that so many people actually like that 40k roboute, I think it looks terrible and goes perfectly with the cartoon like kiddies story line that came with it !







Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/12 22:52:05


Post by: Crimson


 Rayvon wrote:
Im surprised to see that so many people actually like that 40k roboute, I think it looks terrible and goes perfectly with the cartoon like kiddies story line that came with it !

I think it is not bad model per se, but it is a bad 40K model. It just looks bizarre next to the other models, it looks like it is in the wrong scale. I guess it would be a great stating point for a cool daemon prince conversion though...


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 09:09:02


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


 Crimson wrote:
 Rayvon wrote:
Im surprised to see that so many people actually like that 40k roboute, I think it looks terrible and goes perfectly with the cartoon like kiddies story line that came with it !

I think it is not bad model per se, but it is a bad 40K model. It just looks bizarre next to the other models, it looks like it is in the wrong scale. I guess it would be a great stating point for a cool daemon prince conversion though...


I just don't think it conveys anything about his character, and despite what people have said here, the proportions are awful, the ornamentation is too cluttered, his pose is weird, and the fire sword just looks stupid.

Sure the FW scaling isn't perfect but its a lot better, and at least it looks like a regal, Romanesque character, like how Guilliman should be.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 09:37:50


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
the rule of cool clearly states that wearing helmets is not cool. if you want an example then EVERY holly wood action move.
That's just actors not wanting their face to be covered. And that's only getting worse (see the Mighty Morphin' Nano-Helmets in Black Panther and Infinity War).




Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 10:05:58


Post by: zedmeister


Looks like Forgeworld have been fiddling with their site:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000

Annoyingly, you can't filter by faction anymore.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 10:07:31


Post by: H.B.M.C.


You can for HH and AoS. What an odd change. Can't be intentional.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 10:14:10


Post by: zedmeister


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can for HH and AoS. What an odd change. Can't be intentional.


Hoping so and not a precursor to another round of Last Change to Buy. It's usually around this time that they start retiring items.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 10:15:54


Post by: Moopy


 Platuan4th wrote:


Wow, Sanguinius' pose looks even more awkward and silly from head on. He goes from surfer dude to lord of the dance.


Is that because it's missing the other half to give context?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 10:27:10


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Looky Likey wrote:
 Red_Five wrote:
I feel like Primarchs are display models that happen to come with rules. None of them are really well suited to battlefield use, even the ones with basic poses (like Lorgar or Horus).
I have to disagree with that, plenty of them look fine in their gaming base, they aren't even Contemptor big:


Its mostly the flying/jumping ones that look silly on the table
#

YMMV; Alpharius is the only one whose base won't look too stupid on a gaming table, and even there, the rubble hangs over the edge of the 40mm base. To use them "properly" as gaming pieces, all those bits of "tactical scenery" need to go, IMO.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 11:01:27


Post by: Looky Likey


 Red_Five wrote:

The models are difficult to reasonably hide thanks to how much taller primarchs are (compared to normal marines) and the fact that they are all on raised platforms. Also, Russ hangs over the edge of his base by quite a bit, which is a real pet peeve of mine (not everyone finds this annoying but I certainly do). Alpharius is probably the best of the bunch but, let us be honest here, his base is also super forgettable and boring. I will grant you, they are WAY better as usable models than something like Cruz or Fulgrim but they are not really ideal either.

Give and take, I suppose.
If you don't like 'em you don't like 'em.

However they should be much taller than normal marines as they are so in the fluff and in the rules they are bulky, think Castellax in size. If a bulky model was the same height and width as a normal marine I'd be complaining. They are also going to be eye catching on the battlefield in the fluff (baring Corax or Curze being stealthy) so that they can be seen would reflect their priority target nature in the fluff. The jumping/flying/giant gaming base ones are terrible though, they make the model taller than just about everything else on the table.

The base underneath is accessible for all Primarchs that I have seen, so you can always measure them to/from the actual base size. As for the small base topper for the gaming base boring, super hard to put an actual interesting base into that small a plastic base that works with the larger scenery base as detachable and keep it interesting as a base in itself. Personally as long as the scenic base is good I'm not bothered about the gaming base outside of disliking the flying/jumping ones I've seen so far.

You always have the option of putting them on a normal base without their scenery if the cm or so of extra height bothers you that much.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 11:07:39


Post by: AndrewGPaul


It's not the height, as such - it's wondering why Leman Russ is carrying that one bit of rubble around an otherwise empty battlefield with him.

The ever-increasing size of Primarchs makes things like the Talon of Horus, Wolf Helm of Russ and the Lion Helm (and other Relics that are bits of Primarchs' armour or weapons) increasingly ridiculous.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 11:31:35


Post by: tneva82


 zedmeister wrote:
Looks like Forgeworld have been fiddling with their site:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000

Annoyingly, you can't filter by faction anymore.


Armies of imperium->grey knights. Works for me


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 12:15:49


Post by: zedmeister


tneva82 wrote:
 zedmeister wrote:
Looks like Forgeworld have been fiddling with their site:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000

Annoyingly, you can't filter by faction anymore.


Armies of imperium->grey knights. Works for me


Looks like they were updating their site as that wasn't visible earlier


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 13:47:30


Post by: Looky Likey


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It's not the height, as such - it's wondering why Leman Russ is carrying that one bit of rubble around an otherwise empty battlefield with him.

The ever-increasing size of Primarchs makes things like the Talon of Horus, Wolf Helm of Russ and the Lion Helm (and other Relics that are bits of Primarchs' armour or weapons) increasingly ridiculous.
But that applies to just about all fancy bases, even 3rd party ones. Very easy to just stick your primarch on a normal base if it bothers you that much.

Wasn't Horus one of the very first Primarch to be released? So its not weapon size creep but more to do with GW's Abaddon model. I'd be more bothered that his armour makes him look like a giant egg, just make sure he doesn't sit on any walls.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 17:02:14


Post by: Bobthehero




Kal Jericho and Scabbs, I heard the name before, but haven't read the novels


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 17:03:49


Post by: BrookM


Originally a comic book character and I am in minority here, but was never a fan of either the comic or the novels.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 18:13:35


Post by: Galas


Or the hairstyle...


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 21:10:31


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It's not the height, as such - it's wondering why Leman Russ is carrying that one bit of rubble around an otherwise empty battlefield with him.

The ever-increasing size of Primarchs makes things like the Talon of Horus, Wolf Helm of Russ and the Lion Helm (and other Relics that are bits of Primarchs' armour or weapons) increasingly ridiculous.

Why make a scenic base for anything then?


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 22:09:21


Post by: angel of death 007




This is kinda what happens when someone offers to hook you up with their "cute" friend.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 22:50:19


Post by: Danny76


Well I’d never looked at Guilliman in so much detail till this thread..

I’d say 40k, now I’ve noticed the legs, yeah hard to unsee them.
Heads are both ok, yeah perhaps small.

With helmets on. They both look a lot better.
(And 40k’s armour, well I’ve seen a few where it’s not painted like GW’s one and it really helps the model.
There’s an all good one, a dark deep wash one over those colours, and I think I saw a mostly blue one.
It's the ornate gilding on him that’s so bright in the new armour, I think that makes him just look too busy..)


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/13 23:43:21


Post by: SnotlingPimpWagon


 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Bobthehero wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Why does everyone get a rage on about primarch helmets? They're supposed to be centre piece models.


Rule of cool?



the rule of cool clearly states that wearing helmets is not cool. if you want an example then EVERY holly wood action move.


Judge Dredd is cooler than most action movie heroes.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/14 03:14:32


Post by: Platuan4th


 Moopy wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:


Wow, Sanguinius' pose looks even more awkward and silly from head on. He goes from surfer dude to lord of the dance.


Is that because it's missing the other half to give context?


If the model's pose requires a non-functional display base to not look dumb, then maybe it should have a different pose. If I wanted a statue diorama, I'd buy one I didn't need to paint myself.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/14 05:13:51


Post by: Elbows


Yep, that's a damn tragedy with regard to that model. Completely sacrificed the gaming miniature to make half of an art piece...really ignorant in my opinion.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/14 07:29:08


Post by: DanceOfSlaanesh


Hmm is it true that you wont be able to get sanguinius scenic base on the webstore?

edit: Never mind, you can for a limited time its said on Warhammer community.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/14 08:25:20


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


 Platuan4th wrote:
 Moopy wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:


Wow, Sanguinius' pose looks even more awkward and silly from head on. He goes from surfer dude to lord of the dance.


Is that because it's missing the other half to give context?


If the model's pose requires a non-functional display base to not look dumb, then maybe it should have a different pose. If I wanted a statue diorama, I'd buy one I didn't need to paint myself.


Its definitely more of an art piece. which is great for me, as I like to paint pieces of art for my home. I could see how that could be annoying for gamers, but surely its not that big a deal? I mean, with his elevated position, once he gets into melee combat it will look like he's coming down on his opponent?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Bobthehero wrote:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Why does everyone get a rage on about primarch helmets? They're supposed to be centre piece models.


Rule of cool?



the rule of cool clearly states that wearing helmets is not cool. if you want an example then EVERY holly wood action move.


Judge Dredd is cooler than most action movie heroes.


true, but his lid is more for creating the sense of cold detachment than protection. The faceless embodiment of justice..his face isnt the character, unlike the primarchs.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/14 08:34:53


Post by: Argive


think he looks epic. They all do aaprt form world bearers primarch who looks like a chum and horus is a bit less tocky than ive come to expect from old artwork. Still. Id happily buy them all if I had the money to paint over the years.


Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163 @ 2019/03/14 09:27:29


Post by: queen_annes_revenge


Agreed, but I like Lorgar. the only ones I don't really like are Corax and Fulgrim. Guilliman is cool but I dont like ultras so I wont ever paint him.