The Noctilith Crown also represents some exciting developments in the lore. Last year, in Forgebane, we found out Blackstone can be attuned to weaken or strengthen the power of the warp. The Noctilith Crown is one example of what happens when the Heretic Astartes get their hands on this miraculous mineral, used to sunder the veil and allow ingress for their daemonic allies
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Favourite so far is the CSM with Bolter holding the ammo belt. Just a really nice, new take.
Personally I like the CSM on the right...
Spoiler:
... if you get enough chain weapons and bolt pistols in the kit I could see these being used in place of the ancient Khorne Berzerker kit (and I really like the paint scheme).
Looks good. The CSM look a little too uniform for me, but as suggested some kitbash should help there. Also after the Webwayportal for the Eldar this is the 2nd Not-Stargate they release in a short time. Maybe one for other factions, like Orks, will follow.
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: Looks good. The CSM look a little too uniform for me, but as suggested some kitbash should help there. Also after the Webwayportal for the Eldar this is the 2nd Not-Stargate they release in a short time. Maybe one for other factions, like Orks, will follow.
So new Terminators and Possessed when?
Orks don't use a planet bound gate that I know of, but a Necron dolmen gate sounds like a good idea.
I can make out something interesting in the screenshot that shows the new black legion traits.
Mere Mortals: Cultists don't gain legion traits.
Black Legion Trait has stayed the same too - +1 leadership and advance to make all guns assault weapons.
Edit: There is also something about not being able to use the old version of 'Veterans of the Long War' if you use the version in this supplement, which means they're changing that stratagem. Looks like they're taking that off cultists too.
Papa-Schlumpf wrote: Looks good. The CSM look a little too uniform for me, but as suggested some kitbash should help there. Also after the Webwayportal for the Eldar this is the 2nd Not-Stargate they release in a short time. Maybe one for other factions, like Orks, will follow.
Soooo, no rules changes to codex csm except the new data sheets and stuff for black legion/renegades? Lame.... But hey, at least another cultist nerft on top, its chaos after all
I think that CSM kit has a good balance of 'baroque' and simplicity. Just enough to feel Chaos-ey but not so much to make painting a Troop option too cumbersome. I especially like how it has several marks of armor. Was kinda hoping for more crazy pauldrons that the photo seems to indicate. I am just hoping GW doesn't want $60+ for it.
Did anyone else notice that world eaters and emperor's children where the only legions (who don't have a codex) to not get an example colour scheme with the new chaos space marines ?
That's okay, but slightly bizarre. It's the stratagems that break cultists...has very little to do with the actual traits. At 5 points a model, that's tough....very. The only thing I could count on was my gakky cultists occasionally advancing and charging (just to die anyway).
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: This looks like one of the best releases ever. It is very encouraging that gw is willing to make all these renegade rules and codex updates.
But will they fix csm stats enough to make them good?
They can't have really done big changes seeing old codex is still supposed to be usable with FAQ+CA.
Formosa wrote:those chaos marines are awesome, quick replacement of the heads for one of the legion sets and were a go!!!
agreed
Adeptus Doritos wrote:That was quick.
Wonder if we'll get Infiltrator modular kits soon. I needs those to kitbash.
word
I was thinking about buying 2 sets of etb reivers and swap parts to make diff posed Infiltrators then vice-versa. worked for hellblasters/intercessors so why not?
Biggest thing I love about these ones is the statement they are comparable to old kits. Refreshing change of pace from one posers with little customisation options. More of these tyvm!
tneva82 wrote: Biggest thing I love about these ones is the statement they are comparable to old kits. Refreshing change of pace from one posers with little customisation options. More of these tyvm!
This for me is the biggest part of this awesome announcement. I was worried GW had quietly said goodbye to multipose kits, as every release for around a year now has been some degree of one poser, with a limited range of poses for things like intercessors. Also the fact it is compatible with the rest of the SM line gives me hope mini marines will not be squatted at least until the next chaos update, which shouldn't be for a long time.
These new CSM are compatible with the old models in the same way the Primaris are. As in most heads and shoulder pads will still work, while the legs and torsos are mono fit. The big difference seems to be that the CSM set is designed as a ten man squad, not a five man squad. So no duplicated body poses in the box.
The new CSM look great. It is such a shame that the rules are still pathetic. Now that they're almost Primaris-sized, their feeble stats feel even more wrong and insulting.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: That’s not what the article suggests? It says about mixing MkIII and that, which to me is suggestive of full compatibility?
You can mix the arms, shoulders heads and backpacks. It is pretty clear that the torso and legs are one piece; you can tell because the waist doesn't look like crap.
A lot of the helmets look pretty nice. I always liked the DV Chosen helmet (the one the repeated model with the bolter wore) and it's nice to see them show up with horns and without. (They also were used on one of the Shadowspear CSM)
Do you think the less chaos-y helmets are too different from tactical marines to use on Loyalist? I've got some big plans for the tusked helmet. (unrelated note, I will be willing to buy as many of those heads off of people as I can)
Rydria wrote: Did anyone else notice that world eaters and emperor's children where the only legions (who don't have a codex) to not get an example colour scheme with the new chaos space marines ?
I noticed.
It could be a tiny hint. It could mean absolutely nothing.
Either way, this reveal only solves one of the daemon engine images so far, the terrain piece. I'd love it if they went ahead and threw Noise Marines and Khorne Berzerkers into the updated kits. I'd love it MORE if they got their own Codexes, but we'll see. As a collector, I'm more interested in the models than I am the Codexes. I think it's been like 5 months since I played a 40k game and yet I've bought a bit of something nearly every release since.
They look great! I'm glad they finally did CSM justice model wise, it was always a pain to see my friend just watch helplessly as loyalists get endless updates to their core line while his languished in their awkward squat poses. His only respite were the HH plastics, but at least its worth the wait. Now we just have to hope they can address their lacklustre rules (though that appears to be a larger issue overall for marines this edition).
word
I was thinking about buying 2 sets of etb reivers and swap parts to make diff posed Infiltrators then vice-versa. worked for hellblasters/intercessors so why not?
You're a nerd and should be pushed into the nearest large trash receptacle if you do not do this.
My thing is, I'd really like to get my hands on them optics- that sweet delicious peek-a-boo glass would really make damned near any Space Marine's bang-bang look super sexy.
Crimson wrote: You can mix the arms, shoulders heads and backpacks. It is pretty clear that the torso and legs are one piece; you can tell because the waist doesn't look like crap.
Crap, I think you might be right. Time to go buy a box of CSM before they disappear so I can have my mixed MKIII torsos and legs for iron warriors.
A Chaos Stargate? So... a Chaos Gate? I think it looks great.
I also think the new CSMs look great. Shame about the single-pose torso's/legs and how GW is pretending they're modular.
This is interesting though, given recent discussions:
Vigilus Ablaze also breathes new life into the Renegade Chapters – those raiders and corsairs who have joined the ranks of Chaos since the dark days of the Horus Heresy. You’ll find new traits for fan-favourites like the Red Corsairs and Crimson Slaughter, plus rules for niche but beloved renegades like The Purge, Brazen Beasts, Flawless Host and The Scourged. Each has their own rules, including a bespoke Relic and Stratagem. WIth Vigilus Ablaze, you’ll have more freedom when building your Chaos army than ever before, allowing you to create a dread host to suit your tastes.
Of course I doubt that you'll be able to play recently turned Renegades, only those that have traded in their flyers, Centurions, Cyclones, Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields, Storm Bolters, Grav-Weapons, Multi-Meltas, Razorbacks and Land Speeders for Autocannons, Combi-Bolters and Daemon Engines.
I also think the new CSMs look great. Shame about the single-pose torso's/legs and how GW is pretending their modular.
They're modular as all other bits are separate. Combined torso and waist is an improvement, it is plain to see on these models as the waist area looks massively better. You have ten different bodies, and ten more from the Shadowspear box.
Wait until Arms B and D only fit with Torso A, and Arms A and C only fit with Torso B, and so on, and you'll start to see how "modular" they really are...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wait until Arms B and D only fit with Torso A, and Arms A and C only fit with Torso B, and so on, and you'll start to see how "modular" they really are...
So the only difference between them and Primaris Hellblasters, Reivers, and Intercessors is you don't have to glue very specific legs on to a specific torso... I'd consider those kits pretty modular.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wait until Arms B and D only fit with Torso A, and Arms A and C only fit with Torso B, and so on, and you'll start to see how "modular" they really are...
This will not be the case, it is not the case on the multipart Primaris models either.
on another note, I was in my local GW shop picking up shadowspear the other day and complained about how CSMs had a "eaither or" approuch to boltguns or a CCW, he seemed confused by my off hand statement,and thought they could be when he said "ohh thats just the shadowspear stuff the complete kit will have the option" so he might just have been confused but it could also be a hint that Chaos Marines will be able to have a boltgun AND a CCW again. which would honestly be a nice buff to Black Legion
Strange that there’s no mention of a collectors edition of the Vigilus book in the community article. I hope there will be one to match the collectors edition of the first book.
I don't think all the torso and legs will be attached.
Look at the champion with the powerfist. He's got a unique loincloth and "belt buckle?" that you don't see in the wider shot. You do see his legs on the model with the Icon on his banner, but the torso its attached to is different, and the loincloth isn't the same.
They are both turned the same way. Maybe the back of the torso is attached to the legs, but the front isn't? That should make it an easier fit, and a bit more customization.
GaroRobe wrote: I don't think all the torso and legs will be attached.
Look at the champion with the powerfist. He's got a unique loincloth and "belt buckle?" that you don't see in the wider shot. You do see his legs on the model with the Icon on his banner, but the torso its attached to is different, and the loincloth isn't the same.
They are both turned the same way. Maybe the back of the torso is attached to the legs, but the front isn't? That should make it an easier fit, and a bit more customization.
Good catch, but that's the only one I can see. (I assume that the heavy bolter and the teal plasma guy are the same, though I can't be sure as the HB is on the way. There might be couple of extra chest pieces that go with specific legs. The loincloth bits must have been designed for the specific legs in order for them to work the way they do.
Look at the champion with the powerfist. He's got a unique loincloth and "belt buckle?" that you don't see in the wider shot. You do see his legs on the model with the Icon on his banner, but the torso its attached to is different, and the loincloth isn't the same.
Its possible that some of the body's may have alternate chest plates. IIRC the Primaris Aggresors have one for the sargent. Some or all of the lioncloths could also be two part? The bone colourd champ looks like he has the same chainmail behined the straps as the icon bearer has behined the cloth.
Edit - Looks like the BL Marine with the chain fed bolter and the NL share the same assembly with different arms. And while its hard to be sure with the torso covered up, the BL meltagun guy and the IW Marine also seem to share the same body.
Sooo... Looking at the Vigilus Black Legion picture, we can read "Mere mortals : Chaos Cultists do not benefit from the Black Crusaders legion trait". Seeing this, I thought it meant that now all units would benefit from Legion traits ! Unfortunately, if you zoom in you can see that only Daemon Prince, infantry, bikers and Helbrute benefit from Black Crusaders...
So the new CSM box comes with both the Heavy Bolter and Missile Launcher? That's pretty decent. I am crossing my fingers for Lascannons in the Havocs box they previewed.
Nym wrote: Sooo... Looking at the Vigilus Black Legion picture, we can read "Mere mortals : Chaos Cultists do not benefit from the Black Crusaders legion trait". Seeing this, I thought it meant that now all units would benefit from Legion traits ! Unfortunately, if you zoom in you can see that only Daemon Prince, infantry, bikers and Helbrute benefit from Black Crusaders...
I'm so sad right now.
I can't believe they aren't fixing the Black Legion trait. I'd be fine with cultists not benefiting if the trait was actually good. But the black Legion trait remains the worst except for the poor word bearers.
So in the video, they claim that we'll see how a human shape body fits in the armor as you assemble the model in part by bolting the armor pieces on one at a time. I'm definitely interested in seeing that for myself.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wait until Arms B and D only fit with Torso A, and Arms A and C only fit with Torso B, and so on, and you'll start to see how "modular" they really are...
This is not the case though. As a GSC player with 120 neophyte hybrids I can tell you it is absolutely fine having legs and torsos that are matched. You still have plenty of customization on heads and weapons. I'd actually have preferred if the legs were already attached for faster assembly.
GW seems to have done player friendly move with codex if I'm reading right. Vigilus ablaze in the flowchart is below old codex so if that's right new codex has those rules as well. That would be very nice from GW. Rather than having to buy new codex AND vigilus ablaze(or keep old codex and carry around FAQ's and CA) you get just one book and that's it. Makes it well worth it. New rules from vigilus ablaze and no need to carry FAQ and CA and cross reference things.
I wouldn't mind ork codex V2 in this way with vigilus 1 contents added as it is! And orks are so far fairly light but once point changes appear v2 codex will be nice.
tneva82 wrote: GW seems to have done player friendly move with codex if I'm reading right. Vigilus ablaze in the flowchart is below old codex so if that's right new codex has those rules as well. That would be very nice from GW. Rather than having to buy new codex AND vigilus ablaze(or keep old codex and carry around FAQ's and CA) you get just one book and that's it. Makes it well worth it. New rules from vigilus ablaze and no need to carry FAQ and CA and cross reference things.
I wouldn't mind ork codex V2 in this way with vigilus 1 contents added as it is! And orks are so far fairly light but once point changes appear v2 codex will be nice.
I think your misinterpreting that. The updated/new dataslates are in the codex 2.0, but the fancy formations are most likely only in Vigilus Ablaze.
Im so disappointed that we dont get a real new codex. Rules wises this feels half assed and lazy. So if I dont play Black legion i get nothing? I swear if they release new chaos terminator/ csm without changing anything about their rules that would be stunningly ignorant...
GaroRobe wrote: I don't think all the torso and legs will be attached.
Probably just torso fronts, but you never know, you may be right. There may be a few pieces in there that aren't set to a single pose.
Red Corsair wrote: This is not the case though. As a GSC player with 120 neophyte hybrids I can tell you it is absolutely fine having legs and torsos that are matched. You still have plenty of customization on heads and weapons. I'd actually have preferred if the legs were already attached for faster assembly.
The GSC models came out before this mono-pose crap started in 40K.
tneva82 wrote: GW seems to have done player friendly move with codex if I'm reading right. Vigilus ablaze in the flowchart is below old codex so if that's right new codex has those rules as well. That would be very nice from GW. Rather than having to buy new codex AND vigilus ablaze(or keep old codex and carry around FAQ's and CA) you get just one book and that's it. Makes it well worth it. New rules from vigilus ablaze and no need to carry FAQ and CA and cross reference things.
I wouldn't mind ork codex V2 in this way with vigilus 1 contents added as it is! And orks are so far fairly light but once point changes appear v2 codex will be nice.
I think your misinterpreting that. The updated/new dataslates are in the codex 2.0, but the fancy formations are most likely only in Vigilus Ablaze.
You mean the datasheets that you can download right below the flowchart?
tneva82 wrote: GW seems to have done player friendly move with codex if I'm reading right. Vigilus ablaze in the flowchart is below old codex so if that's right new codex has those rules as well. That would be very nice from GW. Rather than having to buy new codex AND vigilus ablaze(or keep old codex and carry around FAQ's and CA) you get just one book and that's it. Makes it well worth it. New rules from vigilus ablaze and no need to carry FAQ and CA and cross reference things.
I wouldn't mind ork codex V2 in this way with vigilus 1 contents added as it is! And orks are so far fairly light but once point changes appear v2 codex will be nice.
I think your misinterpreting that. The updated/new dataslates are in the codex 2.0, but the fancy formations are most likely only in Vigilus Ablaze.
But then one would expect vigilus be under "want more chaos?" and not under old codex with no path from new codex to it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Wait until Arms B and D only fit with Torso A, and Arms A and C only fit with Torso B, and so on, and you'll start to see how "modular" they really are...
When that happens I'm sure there will be much gnashing of teeth.
As is, the current Intercessors kit is leagues above the ETB or Dark Imperium Intercessors. The combined torso/legs is a big improvement over the 'I'm gunna hold this squat position and hope nobody kicks me in the balls' pose that tacticals and prior chaos marines had.
And, in the Intercessors kit, all the arms could fit on any body. The only thing was that certain arm pairs had to go together when a model is holding a bolter. Not a big deal.
tneva82 wrote: GW seems to have done player friendly move with codex if I'm reading right. Vigilus ablaze in the flowchart is below old codex so if that's right new codex has those rules as well. That would be very nice from GW. Rather than having to buy new codex AND vigilus ablaze(or keep old codex and carry around FAQ's and CA) you get just one book and that's it. Makes it well worth it. New rules from vigilus ablaze and no need to carry FAQ and CA and cross reference things.
I wouldn't mind ork codex V2 in this way with vigilus 1 contents added as it is! And orks are so far fairly light but once point changes appear v2 codex will be nice.
I think your misinterpreting that. The updated/new dataslates are in the codex 2.0, but the fancy formations are most likely only in Vigilus Ablaze.
But then one would expect vigilus be under "want more chaos?" and not under old codex with no path from new codex to it.
Seems clear cut. New units and chapter tactics etc = codex v2 or vigilus. Specialist detachments = vigilus only. Daemons stuff = vigilus only. Nothing exclusive to codex v2.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And I suspect that this puts a nail in the coffin when it comes to a Oblit/Mutilator kit.
I don't see why. Just have the stabby bits and shooty bits attach to the same parts on the armor and have them swap out. Sort of like how the arms are on the Aggressors.
So, will there be nothing but Chaos detachments in the new Vigilus book? That would not help with it's sales if true. I'd love to see something for Deathwing, especially now that Fallen are present.
Well, color me excited: something new for Red Corsairs? Ever? I'm honestly surprised by that. Suddenly, I've got a fair bit more invested in that book.
bullyboy wrote: So, will there be nothing but Chaos detachments in the new Vigilus book? That would not help with it's sales if true. I'd love to see something for Deathwing, especially now that Fallen are present.
my guess is we'll see blood angels get something. we might also, MAYBE see something for the new vanguard
Really liking the look of the new chaos marines, and indeed all of the chaos range now. Chaos is going from the most neglected model wise to one of the better looking armies. Wouldn't start a new army until havocs are sorted so I hope havocs are next on the list to show off. Congrats GW anyway.
ceorron wrote: Really liking the look of the new chaos marines, and indeed all of the chaos range now. Chaos is going from the most neglected model wise to one of the better looking armies. Wouldn't start a new army until havocs are sorted so I hope havocs are next on the list to show off.
Congrats GW anyway.
We've already seen a new havoc model with a rotor cannon of some sort, so we know they are coming, presumably in the next few weeks!
Ghaz wrote: The terrain piece has a very Stargate vibe (chevron seven, locked!)...
It's the Fargate! "F"! It's different from that movie that I've never seen, so how would I copy it? I just want to make sure that we are clear it's the Fargate! "Goes far", get it? And there it is no way it came from that movie, or that syndicated series based on the movie!
Latro_ wrote: The download for shadow spear has no points or traits... I'm just gonna buy the new codex it's a mess
Here I was about to say how well done this was, with the new releases being available without sinking a massive part of my hobby budget into a new book that I don't want. But you're right, without points, there's little point to the new datasheets. Which is super annoying! I mean I imagine they'll be rolled into Chapter Approved, but until then...
I am betting we still get a Havoc kit in addition to the CSM kit, the more I think about it. This new kit has the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter, but we still need the rotary Cannon they showed earlier and an autocannon (the one in Shadowspear is NOT the one from the rumour engine).
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am betting we still get a Havoc kit in addition to the CSM kit, the more I think about it. This new kit has the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter, but we still need the rotary Cannon they showed earlier and an autocannon (the one in Shadowspear is NOT the one from the rumour engine).
Well, the pic doesn't show all the bits, so it is possible that they're in it.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am betting we still get a Havoc kit in addition to the CSM kit, the more I think about it. This new kit has the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter, but we still need the rotary Cannon they showed earlier and an autocannon (the one in Shadowspear is NOT the one from the rumour engine).
Well, the pic doesn't show all the bits, so it is possible that they're in it.
Perhaps, but I don't really see them putting three separate heavy weapons on one 5-man sprue. That seems like overkill.
Wow, two weeks after Shadowspear they put out the full CSM kit. Not that I'm complaining and the models are GREAT (though I'll give them leg implants/termi legs). A bit heavy on the bling and ornate helmets for regular CSM, IMO, and lacking a few dozen spikes, but great if you want more Chosen-y guys.
The weapons though. I'm in love. The ML is fantastic and I usually dislike ammo belts on bolters, but the Rambo pose and the ammo belt going to the backpack on another guy (with a big drum on the back, maybe) are brilliant.The chainswords sre downright METAL. Brutal metal! The kit has the weapons of the old kit and more, so recreating my old squads will be super easy.
And Abaddon on the same day? They're not messing around, are they. Havocs and the rider...and Terminators/Termi character plus Dark Apostle/Sorc of rumour engine and artwork fame should come out fairly quick as well. If there's even more I wouldn't complain, either, but we're at 8 kits incl. Haarken and Terrain and excluding Shadowspear, right. 9 if the preview for the Apostle *and* the oldschool sorceror backpack are for this wave. A Night Lords upgrade pack with good helmets for once would be cool, though.
Edit: The Havoc shown has totally different feet and a different stance compared to the "squad" CSM shown. It has to be a seperate kit.
I find it hilariously funny they gave us the rules for chaos shadow spear units for FREE but forgot the whole points costs so like there unplayable outside of Power Level games so...what no one plays so...
You can do PL x 20 thu that generally is incorrect and can over or under point units sometimes.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am betting we still get a Havoc kit in addition to the CSM kit, the more I think about it. This new kit has the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter, but we still need the rotary Cannon they showed earlier and an autocannon (the one in Shadowspear is NOT the one from the rumour engine).
Well, the pic doesn't show all the bits, so it is possible that they're in it.
Perhaps, but I don't really see them putting three separate heavy weapons on one 5-man sprue. That seems like overkill.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am betting we still get a Havoc kit in addition to the CSM kit, the more I think about it. This new kit has the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter, but we still need the rotary Cannon they showed earlier and an autocannon (the one in Shadowspear is NOT the one from the rumour engine).
Well, the pic doesn't show all the bits, so it is possible that they're in it.
Perhaps, but I don't really see them putting three separate heavy weapons on one 5-man sprue. That seems like overkill.
It's a ten-man sprue though.
I misread the article (I have been up for way too long traveling). I read it as that they would include two 5-man Sprues, but I see now that it is a full 10-man squad with the ability to make two Aspiring Champions.
Nope, they goofily stated the obvious: that, if you have more than one type of special/sgt weapons options, you're able to equip more than one squad's worth with them.
ceorron wrote:Really liking the look of the new chaos marines, and indeed all of the chaos range now. Chaos is going from the most neglected model wise to one of the better looking armies. Wouldn't start a new army until havocs are sorted so I hope havocs are next on the list to show off.
Congrats GW anyway.
umm Sororitas?
I'm really looking forward to what comes for both Chaos and Loyalists
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am betting we still get a Havoc kit in addition to the CSM kit, the more I think about it. This new kit has the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter, but we still need the rotary Cannon they showed earlier and an autocannon (the one in Shadowspear is NOT the one from the rumour engine).
I'm starting to believe that as well.
ThatMG wrote: I find it hilariously funny they gave us the rules for chaos shadow spear units for FREE but forgot the whole points costs so like there unplayable outside of Power Level games so...what no one plays so...
Model-wise this is an amazing wave, they've really revitalized the Chaos line.
Rules wise, it's pretty obvious that GW needs to solicit feedback for Chaos like it does for Sisters. They nerfed Cultists AGAIN (while leaving the far superior AM Infantry unscathed), and nerfed Obliterators while actually trumpeting their "new and improved" status. The fact that no one in the rules department understands basic math (charging 70% more for 50% more shots is NOT an improvement!) is disconcerting. I would say that the only thing left to nerf in the CSM book is Daemon Princes and you'd have an entire codex with no tournament-viable units, but Thousand Sons/Death Guard princes already outclass them enough that CSM Princes almost never see play anyway.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am betting we still get a Havoc kit in addition to the CSM kit, the more I think about it. This new kit has the Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter, but we still need the rotary Cannon they showed earlier and an autocannon (the one in Shadowspear is NOT the one from the rumour engine).
it's be a fools bet to bet against that GW has specificly stated the previewed mini with the chaingun was a Havok.
Would it be cynical, or optimistic to wonder if GW put four different heavy weapons into the chaos Marines kit, thus allowing you to build a Havoc squad out of it, but requiring four of them if you want to focus on a specific weapon?
Sokhar wrote: Model-wise this is an amazing wave, they've really revitalized the Chaos line.
Rules wise, it's pretty obvious that GW needs to solicit feedback for Chaos like it does for Sisters. They nerfed Cultists AGAIN (while leaving the far superior AM Infantry unscathed), and nerfed Obliterators while actually trumpeting their "new and improved" status. The fact that no one in the rules department understands basic math (charging 70% more for 50% more shots is NOT an improvement!) is disconcerting. I would say that the only thing left to nerf in the CSM book is Daemon Princes and you'd have an entire codex with no tournament-viable units, but Thousand Sons/Death Guard princes already outclass them enough that CSM Princes almost never see play anyway.
Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.
I agree with you on the cultists though. But I doubt it makes much difference to the meta because cultists weren't being used much for traits anyway. They were mostly used in black legion or iron warriors lists, both of which don't help them much. If they go back to 4 points, or could take special weapons like Guard can, then its okay. But right now this is just a nerf. Maybe they think CSM just arn't used because cultists are too good, rather than realizing its because vanilla marines one one the worst performance vs cost ratioed troops in the game?
So in the video, they claim that we'll see how a human shape body fits in the armor as you assemble the model in part by bolting the armor pieces on one at a time. I'm definitely interested in seeing that for myself.
Well that video certainly did it's job - this might be the first model I've bought from GW in a long time purely for the sake of building and painting it(I don't use special characters). What I wouldn't give to have that guy do a modern unit of Indomitus Terminators with roughly Primaris sizing so they also actually fit people inside.
Ah yes. The preview does state "What's this Havoc carrying?".
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.
I believe people are basing this on the Power Level increase.
Ah yes. The preview does state "What's this Havoc carrying?".
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.
I believe people are basing this on the Power Level increase.
well they got +1 to toughness, 2 more shots and a power fist so.. my guess is the points paid for the power fist aren't really worth it in most peoples eyes (although I do like them having it, it ... feels right)
Disappointed that the book doesn't give anything new though. I was really hoping Word Bearers would get a new or improved trait, but that doesn't seem very likely now.
nagash42 wrote: Yay Crimson Slaughter rules! Hopefully they buff possessed as that was always part of their thing.
In 7th they had Fear, which is basically the Night Lords trait for all intents and purposes. Then there was Possessed as Troops (which amazingly they got before Word Bearers did!)
However, their relic section was pretty tasty to an extent. I don't imagine they'll get a lot of those back.
As I said, I'm still worried about how The Purge are going to be handled. They were always represented via Death Guard as they were originated from there as far as I remember.
Ah yes. The preview does state "What's this Havoc carrying?".
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.
I believe people are basing this on the Power Level increase.
well they got +1 to toughness, 2 more shots and a power fist so.. my guess is the points paid for the power fist aren't really worth it in most peoples eyes (although I do like them having it, it ... feels right)
What do obliterators do? They deep strike in and they shoot. If they get locked in close combat, they may as well be dead.
The stat boosts, along with the size increase, are, to many players, completely unnecessary. Now obliterators start to suffer from the same problems that helbrutes and daemon engines have: you're paying more for weapons and features you're not going to use. In order to keep points tight in a codex that was already struggling to get into the top brackets, people would happily have kept the cheaper obliterators.
Now, there could be more coming that will help, but I personally was hoping for an update to legion traits. Since that's not happening, I have to hope that the renegade traits and vigilus formations will give this codex a boost.
You'll survive; just be brave. They did it to me back in 3rd edition and I've mostly gotten over it... mostly....
I can't be trusted. This would be my 5th power armor army! The rest are loyalist, so this would be my first Chaos army. Makes me sort of regret selling the CSM half of Shadowspear.
Ah yes. The preview does state "What's this Havoc carrying?".
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: Oblits also gained several stat increases. It's not known yet if they are worth their new points cost, but it wasn't 70% more for only 50% more shots.
I believe people are basing this on the Power Level increase.
well they got +1 to toughness, 2 more shots and a power fist so.. my guess is the points paid for the power fist aren't really worth it in most peoples eyes (although I do like them having it, it ... feels right)
What do obliterators do? They deep strike in and they shoot. If they get locked in close combat, they may as well be dead.
The stat boosts, along with the size increase, are, to many players, completely unnecessary. Now obliterators start to suffer from the same problems that helbrutes and daemon engines have: you're paying more for weapons and features you're not going to use. In order to keep points tight in a codex that was already struggling to get into the top brackets, people would happily have kept the cheaper obliterators.
Now, there could be more coming that will help, but I personally was hoping for an update to legion traits. Since that's not happening, I have to hope that the renegade traits and vigilus formations will give this codex a boost.
I kinda disagree. With their new crushing fists. Now if they get into combat, they pack a pretty mean punch! They are by no means dead now. In fact, you might be surprised how many different kind of units in general they would 'obliterate" in close combat now. I would venture that after their change, anything less than a dedicated combat unit would now get stomped by Obliterators in a melee fight. In fact, if Oblits get off a charge on a dedicated but fragile unit and some death to the false emperor goes off. They may do so much damage the return strike won't phase them either. That d3 damage now on the new crushing fist is no joke.
Really excited to see the rules for the The Scourged. I thought I was the only person who cared about that chapter but seems like someone in GW is a fan of them too. Maybe we'll get some more lore past the tiny codex blurb, haha.
Arachnofiend wrote: Really excited to see the rules for the The Scourged. I thought I was the only person who cared about that chapter but seems like someone in GW is a fan of them too. Maybe we'll get some more lore past the tiny codex blurb, haha.
Watch these renegade traits be better than the Codex traits.
Also, everyone freaking out about how you can build 'two sqads of five' out of one box. Yes, you can already do that with the current Chaos Marine box. You put a heavy weapon in one squad of five and a special weapon in another and then model two of the ten to be the aspiring champs, which can be bolter-carriers. If you're expecting more than one of each special weapon, prepare for disappointment. That said, the image didn't have any duplicate bodies, so there won't be 'two sprues of 5' in there either.
Arachnofiend wrote: Really excited to see the rules for the The Scourged. I thought I was the only person who cared about that chapter but seems like someone in GW is a fan of them too. Maybe we'll get some more lore past the tiny codex blurb, haha.
Watch these renegade traits be better than the Codex traits.
My Legion that I'll be adding a Scourged detachment to is Thousand Sons so I don't think I'll have a problem with that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The elaborate and loving description of the box's possibilities (all of which are possible with the current box and have always been so since it changed from 8 to 10 miniatures) just looks like a smokescreen to me, like they know we don't like the far less modular and limited way recent kits have been made, so they're talking up the fact that the car has a steering wheel and an engine like they're somehow new...
Arachnofiend wrote: Really excited to see the rules for the The Scourged. I thought I was the only person who cared about that chapter but seems like someone in GW is a fan of them too. Maybe we'll get some more lore past the tiny codex blurb, haha.
Watch these renegade traits be better than the Codex traits.
Also, everyone freaking out about how you can build 'two sqads of five' out of one box. Yes, you can already do that with the current Chaos Marine box. You put a heavy weapon in one squad of five and a special weapon in another and then model two of the ten to be the aspiring champs, which can be bolter-carriers. If you're expecting more than one of each special weapon, prepare for disappointment. That said, the image didn't have any duplicate bodies, so there won't be 'two sprues of 5' in there either.
It'd be hard for them to get worse then some of the Legion traits :(
the "parts for 2 squads of 5" thing seems to honestly be a common thing from GW, they seem to have learned most players run their marines 5 man squads
BrianDavion wrote: the "parts for 2 squads of 5" thing seems to honestly be a common thing from GW, they seem to have learned most players run their marines 5 man squads
But again, it's nothing you couldn't do already with the existing 40KCSM kit.
Talking up a "feature" that isn't in any way new strikes me as odd.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I haven't heard of The Scourged, but everyone saying they like the name drop alone makes me excited for them.
The Scourged are the most "prominent" non-Thousand Sons Tzeentch CSM faction (prominent in air quotes because they've just been in a few paragraph-long codex blurbs). They originally worked for the Inquisition, murdering politically inconvenient people under the pretense of fighting heresy. The Chapter Master suspected the Inquisition was deceiving his chapter on the validity of their targets, and gave a prayer to the Emperor asking to know true from lie. The Emperor, being the useless corpse and false god, that he is, did not answer.
Tzeentch did, and now the entire chapter is cursed with the echoes of every lie told by humanity in their minds. They're really cool!
The elaborate and loving description of the box's possibilities (all of which are possible with the current box and have always been so since it changed from 8 to 10 miniatures) just looks like a smokescreen to me, like they know we don't like the far less modular and limited way recent kits have been made, so they're talking up the fact that the car has a steering wheel and an engine like they're somehow new...
The current kit only comes with a Heavy Bolter.
At least this one will finally come with a Missle Launcher and Autocannon that are in the rules but haven't had a model outside of the woefully out of date Havoc Squad.
The elaborate and loving description of the box's possibilities (all of which are possible with the current box and have always been so since it changed from 8 to 10 miniatures) just looks like a smokescreen to me, like they know we don't like the far less modular and limited way recent kits have been made, so they're talking up the fact that the car has a steering wheel and an engine like they're somehow new...
The current kit only comes with a Heavy Bolter.
At least this one will finally come with a Missle Launcher and Autocannon that are in the rules but haven't had a model outside of the woefully out of date Havoc Squad.
So hey, at least that's something.
yeah, let's try to sgtay positive here, I mean... over all it's looking like a pretty nice kit
nagash42 wrote: Yay Crimson Slaughter rules! Hopefully they buff possessed as that was always part of their thing.
In 7th they had Fear, which is basically the Night Lords trait for all intents and purposes. Then there was Possessed as Troops (which amazingly they got before Word Bearers did!)
However, their relic section was pretty tasty to an extent. I don't imagine they'll get a lot of those back.
As I said, I'm still worried about how The Purge are going to be handled. They were always represented via Death Guard as they were originated from there as far as I remember.
Their possessed also had a superior mutation table and yes sadly all their relics will be gone except one.
BrianDavion wrote: yeah, let's try to sgtay positive here, I mean... over all it's looking like a pretty nice kit
The kit's gorgeous - no arguments there - I just feel they're talking up things we could already do to deflect away from the fact that this will be another very static kit, like all Marine releases of late.
And there may not be an Autocannon in the kit. That could be in the Havoc kit along with the Rotor Cannon.
BrianDavion wrote: yeah, let's try to sgtay positive here, I mean... over all it's looking like a pretty nice kit
The kit's gorgeous - no arguments there - I just feel they're talking up things we could already do to deflect away from the fact that this will be another very static kit, like all Marine releases of late.
And there may not be an Autocannon in the kit. That could be in the Havoc kit along with the Rotor Cannon.
we've seen pics of the autocanon with the previws so safe bet it's in the kit, GW hasn't exactly been prone to showing off conversions in ages
BrianDavion wrote: we've seen pics of the autocanon with the previws so safe bet it's in the kit, GW hasn't exactly been prone to showing off conversions in ages
Previews of what? We've seen an Autocannon in a video. We've seen an Autocannon in a rumour engine pic. We've seen an autocannon on the push-fit Shadespire minis. There's no Autocannon in this recent Chaos Space Marine squad preview, and no implication that that the Autocannon we have seen that isn't the push-fit one is somehow a conversion.
It is every bit as logical to assume that the CSM kit has a ML and HB and that the AC comes in a Havoc kit. It sure would be great if the CSM kit had more heavy weapons, but I don't see what's wrong with presuming there's an AC in the Havoc kit.
I'm guessing that the Purge, Brazen Host, and other renegade chapters are being included specifically because death guard and thousand sons are mostly pulled out of the CSM book, to give God specific forces in the CSM book, and let the 4 legions be more specialized in their own books.
Do we expect new CSM decals to replace the ancient ones, or just a set of Black Legion ones?
How’s about not having a week of one guy repeatedly saying “there might not be!” and we wait for sprues pics, that will be along when (or before) the preorder goes up?
For all we know the description might mean there are heavy weapons, CC weapons and bolters all in one box, making multiple units. We have no idea. Just hang fire a few days, instead of bickering over unknowns.
JohnnyHell wrote: How’s about not having a week of one guy repeatedly saying “there might not be!” and we wait for sprues pics, that will be along when (or before) the preorder goes up?
For all we know the description might mean there are heavy weapons, CC weapons and bolters all in one box, making multiple units. We have no idea. Just hang fire a few days, instead of bickering over unknowns.
If the box made multiple units, they’d have mentioned it in the ‘preorder next weekend’ article and shown examples of the other units.
I know that’s very much not in line with your message and I agree with the spirit of it, but this kit is only for Chaos Space Marines. What weapons are included, we won’t know until next weekend (although the autocannon they showed that wasn’t in Shadowspear was painted, but isn’t one of the examples here, so my moneys on Havocs for that).
ThatMG wrote: I find it hilariously funny they gave us the rules for chaos shadow spear units for FREE but forgot the whole points costs so like there unplayable outside of Power Level games so...what no one plays so...
You can do PL x 20 thu that generally is incorrect and can over or under point units sometimes.
And once again people propagate the incorrect myth nobody plays them so...I love it how people always keep spreading lies.
Well they are one of the kits currently listed as "No longer available" on the (UK) web shop. The others being Havocs, Abaddon, the Chaos Lord and the Terminator Chaos Lord.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Well they are one of the kits currently listed as "No longer available" on the (UK) web shop. The others being Havocs, Abaddon, the Chaos Lord and the Terminator Chaos Lord.
TBH, I'd be happy with them releasing the Dark Vengeance (or whatever it was called) Cultists in a proper box with all 20 of them in there. If the choice is between the existing Cultists getting reboxed and just no Cultists, Chaos players should take the first option.
Yeah, agreed. You can also get hold of any/all of the Necromunda gang sprues and go wild... the Cawdor one being the most agreeable to chaosifying, probably, but they don't need much, tbh.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Well they are one of the kits currently listed as "No longer available" on the (UK) web shop. The others being Havocs, Abaddon, the Chaos Lord and the Terminator Chaos Lord.
TBH, I'd be happy with them releasing the Dark Vengeance (or whatever it was called) Cultists in a proper box with all 20 of them in there. If the choice is between the existing Cultists getting reboxed and just no Cultists, Chaos players should take the first option.
Well a multipart kit for cultists would be nicer but at this stage a propper box of either full Autogun / melee pistol would be direly needed.
I am a bit amazed that FW haven't snuck out sets of 10 limbs for the Necromunda gangs that turn them into wielding entirely either lasguns or autoguns/melee pistols. It would be free money.
Or they could again start to produce R&H upgrade sprues, oh wait they went out of OOP because to expensive for cultists.
....
Sarcasm aside i don't think there is the big money for them. Also upgrade sprues tend to become extremely expensive what with the base unit and the sprue cost money.
The Phazer wrote: I am a bit amazed that FW haven't snuck out sets of 10 limbs for the Necromunda gangs that turn them into wielding entirely either lasguns or autoguns/melee pistols. It would be free money.
Giving every gang 15 Hand Flamers was deemed far more important.
The Phazer wrote: I am a bit amazed that FW haven't snuck out sets of 10 limbs for the Necromunda gangs that turn them into wielding entirely either lasguns or autoguns/melee pistols. It would be free money.
Giving every gang 15 Hand Flamers was deemed far more important.
The Specialist Games Team are clearly undercover Redemptionists.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Well they are one of the kits currently listed as "No longer available" on the (UK) web shop. The others being Havocs, Abaddon, the Chaos Lord and the Terminator Chaos Lord.
I'll be sad if we lose the old terminator lord kit for a monopose kit with like 2 options. the old kit was legit great
GoatboyBeta wrote: Well they are one of the kits currently listed as "No longer available" on the (UK) web shop. The others being Havocs, Abaddon, the Chaos Lord and the Terminator Chaos Lord.
I'll be sad if we lose the old terminator lord kit for a monopose kit with like 2 options. the old kit was legit great
Agree. I really hope that if they are bringing new Terminator Lord it has actual weapon options.
Although it is possible that new regular terminators and termie lord are compatible.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Well they are one of the kits currently listed as "No longer available" on the (UK) web shop. The others being Havocs, Abaddon, the Chaos Lord and the Terminator Chaos Lord.
I'll be sad if we lose the old terminator lord kit for a monopose kit with like 2 options. the old kit was legit great
Agree. I really hope that if they are bringing new Terminator Lord it has actual weapon options.
Although it is possible that new regular terminators and termie lord are compatible.
tempted to hedge my bets and snag a CSM start collecting box just to get a last termy lord. my hope though is this is just a repackaging.
I suppose if Crimson Slaughter get some great Possessed perks again, I can just use their trait/stratagem etc and pretend that the crappy Word Bearers rules we're currently stuck with don't exist.
Marshal Loss wrote: I suppose if Crimson Slaughter get some great Possessed perks again, I can just use their trait/stratagem etc and pretend that the crappy Word Bearers rules we're currently stuck with don't exist.
Hold on, if Daemonengines become better and the new little lord on his mecha spider is cheap enough you might want to have access to the WB warlord trait. Maybee.
(Who am i kidding that thing would need to be so cheap to bring them up to level )
did a quick mockup the marine in the pic has a skull and tried to make him the same size using the skull on the gate as a guide
but a tactical lynchpin for the Heretic Astartes, giving nearby units an invulnerable save and making it easier for Chaos Psykers to cast their fell magics…
be interesting to see what sort of inv save this dishes out and to who, i'm guesses at the least infantry within 3-6" getting at least a 5/6++
Well terrain pieces are fairly large. Question is are they actually useful for points or are they as bad as knight one that hurts you actively to use it and orks that's not much better(just MW generator for short range).
Inv save does sound it could actually be useful though...
tneva82 wrote: Well terrain pieces are fairly large. Question is are they actually useful for points or are they as bad as knight one that hurts you actively to use it and orks that's not much better(just MW generator for short range).
Inv save does sound it could actually be useful though...
The GC one was reasonable. By no means a must take, but reasonable.
yes big question is will it actually be useful...a 5++ on models that already have a 5++ or a 3+ armor is almost useless.
Alot of weapons that kill and make old marines and CSM useless are AP -1/-2 and its volumn of fire that clears them from the board since they are only 1 wound.
This was an amazing chance for GW to fix the normal marine and CSM profiles and so far they didnt which was huge miss as it makes these new nicer looking kits un-usable in anything like competitive play.
As well if they nerfed cultistis even more it will probably remove Chaos from competitve play period esp with the imperial getting to sideboard assassins to help neuter 1k Sons psyker high commands.
I want to model a techpriest sending a CAT through the gate like a MALP.
I'm expecting something like 5++ for units wholly within 6" like the nerfed void shield generator, and reroll 1s for summoning or psychic tests within 6"
H.B.M.C. wrote: Would it not be magnificent if the bikers/Chaos Lord were new as opposed to reboxed.
(Well, maybe not the Chaos Lord... he'd become a mono-pose no options HQ)
Nice but very unlikely. I can't imagine them releasing new models new weeks and not including them in the 'Available for pre-order next week' WarCom article. Expect simple reboxes.
BrianDavion wrote: we've seen pics of the autocanon with the previws so safe bet it's in the kit, GW hasn't exactly been prone to showing off conversions in ages
Previews of what? We've seen an Autocannon in a video. We've seen an Autocannon in a rumour engine pic. We've seen an autocannon on the push-fit Shadespire minis. There's no Autocannon in this recent Chaos Space Marine squad preview, and no implication that that the Autocannon we have seen that isn't the push-fit one is somehow a conversion.
Week after may include Dark Apostle, Havocs, Bloke On Daemon Thing and Terminators, as we've either seen them seen them, or seen enough rumour engine to reasonably deduce they're on the way.
And the article does say weeks, as in plural, so may be a further pre-order week after that too.
I was wondering why the Forgefiend went MIA. Unless they want to give it new boxart, I can't see why it needs to be repackaged.
Will the chaos lord be a completely new model, or just the Blackstone fortress guy?
GoatboyBeta wrote: The GAMA preview said that Vanguard rules will be in the Elites expansion. I wouldn't be surprised if CSM get expanded options in the same book.
Very nifty, I think that NOT using Infiltrators as Kill-Team units would be insane. Not sure how their scramblers would work.
GaroRobe wrote: I was wondering why the Forgefiend went MIA. Unless they want to give it new boxart, I can't see why it needs to be repackaged.
Will the chaos lord be a completely new model, or just the Blackstone fortress guy?
Good one. I completely forgot about Black Hammer. Would be cool if he gets released separately.
I think if we got a completely new model he would have been previewed in the article. Then again, I would have thought Black Hammer was new enough that the first time separate release would be heralded the same way.
Maybe it's another Chaos Lord? Maybe they didn't include the "in Terminator Armor" part on the sheet?
I'm guessing that the Purge, Brazen Host, and other renegade chapters are being included specifically because death guard and thousand sons are mostly pulled out of the CSM book, to give God specific forces in the CSM book, and let the 4 legions be more specialized in their own books.
You know... That's not a terrible idea. Split out the 4 cult legions and leave the main chaos marine codex for the other 5 plus renegades. I can definitely see that working.
Low_K wrote: Wow €15 price increase for the new Chaos Space Marines. I like the new kit but I think such a large increase is a bit overkill.
From the sounds/looks of it, it seems like this is similar to how the Primaris and Stormcast kits are set up--two sets of 5 man sprues.
I could be wrong but, looking at the legs, it looks like it's 10 completely unique models.
I'm more than happy to be wrong whatever the case! There definitely appears to be some repeat parts but it might just be the CAD showing up. Can't wait to see the sprues.
I unboxed Shadowspear. I am disappointed to see that it comes with crappy 20 year old 40mm bases, especially now that they have (finally!!!) upgraded the molds.
I'm more than happy to be wrong whatever the case! There definitely appears to be some repeat parts but it might just be the CAD showing up. Can't wait to see the sprues.
I'm sure there will be a few repeated boltgun/pistol/sword arms or whatever, but every one of the legs in the squad is unique, so it's definitely a 10-man sprue which will have lots of goodies packed in.
jullevi wrote: I unboxed Shadowspear. I am disappointed to see that it comes with crappy 20 year old 40mm bases, especially now that they have (finally!!!) upgraded the molds.
jullevi wrote: I unboxed Shadowspear. I am disappointed to see that it comes with crappy 20 year old 40mm bases, especially now that they have (finally!!!) upgraded the molds.
What's the difference?
The year printed under the base is different? That's all I can guess
jullevi wrote: I unboxed Shadowspear. I am disappointed to see that it comes with crappy 20 year old 40mm bases, especially now that they have (finally!!!) upgraded the molds.
Mine actually came with 12 too many, and that many missing 32mm Put in a ticket with the Dub, assuming I'll end up calling and get it sorted. But still.
jullevi wrote: I unboxed Shadowspear. I am disappointed to see that it comes with crappy 20 year old 40mm bases, especially now that they have (finally!!!) upgraded the molds.
Mine actually came with 12 too many, and that many missing 32mm Put in a ticket with the Dub, assuming I'll end up calling and get it sorted. But still.
Are you sure? I think the only models on 32s in the set are the Chaos Marines and Infiltrators. All other models are on 40mms or bigger That does seem odd.
Then again, it's happened to me. I bought a box of still sealed Custodes Bikers and it only came with 2 oval bases (but 3 of the clear 60mm rounds). Luckily, I had an extra Oval in my bitz bin.
jullevi wrote: I unboxed Shadowspear. I am disappointed to see that it comes with crappy 20 year old 40mm bases, especially now that they have (finally!!!) upgraded the molds.
What's the difference?
Old 40mm bases have uneven casting where base rim meets the top and casting mark on the side that needs to be filed smooth. New 40mm bases have completely smooth sides and the top has the same texture as 32mm bases. The base edges are thicker as well. New 40mm base has date 2018 on the bottom.
There are also new 2018 molds for 50mm and 65mm round bases and 120mm oval base. All of them feature thicker edges to make them less likely to warp. So far I have only seen these new bases on Gloomspite Gitz and Skaven Endless spells.
JohnnyHell wrote: How’s about not having a week of one guy repeatedly saying “there might not be!” and we wait for sprues pics, that will be along when (or before) the preorder goes up?
For all we know the description might mean there are heavy weapons, CC weapons and bolters all in one box, making multiple units. We have no idea. Just hang fire a few days, instead of bickering over unknowns.
If the box made multiple units, they’d have mentioned it in the ‘preorder next weekend’ article and shown examples of the other units.
I know that’s very much not in line with your message and I agree with the spirit of it, but this kit is only for Chaos Space Marines. What weapons are included, we won’t know until next weekend (although the autocannon they showed that wasn’t in Shadowspear was painted, but isn’t one of the examples here, so my moneys on Havocs for that).
Fun fact - Spear and standalone CSM have two very different heavy bolter models... And neither is the one from DE preview. So, yeah, Havocs are coming.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Do we expect new CSM decals to replace the ancient ones, or just a set of Black Legion ones?
Sadly, judging by recent Primaris garbage sheets outside of excellent Dark Imperium one, probably BL only
Galef wrote: Are you sure? I think the only models on 32s in the set are the Chaos Marines and Infiltrators.
Definitely, even read the instructions to make sure CSM weren't somehow on 40mm now - but even then 2 infiltrators would have been left out with just 8 32mm.
The 40mm we got do have aggressive flashing, but I've been cleaning these things for apparently two decades so whatev
Dunno about that, I like current termies more. For one, much more varied helmets than these, trophy racks also featuring heads of xenos (instead of 100% Imperial), more badass guns and weapons, these do very little for me. Definitely weakest refreshed kit I have seen so far. Ironically, they might make pretty good set of Deathwatch termies
Togusa wrote: Welp, there it is. Terminators aren't getting new sculpts. Massive letdown for me.
These are new models. Quite similar to the old ones, but slightly reworked proportions, slightly bigger, and additional details (especially noticeable on the waist areas and loincloths).
Dunno about that, I like current termies more. For one, much more varied helmets than these, trophy racks also featuring heads of xenos (instead of 100% Imperial), more badass guns and weapons, these do very little for me. Definitely weakest refreshed kit I have seen so far. Ironically, they might make pretty good set of Deathwatch termies
I would bet there's a few more head options in the kit.
they look....something. Not really impressed. Does GW actually think that terminators will be killing stuff in close combat? Or be in close combat in the first place?
In fact they way I understand it is that you have to pay CP to give your terminators a keyword, which will then allow them to pay CP in order to inflict more morale penalty in enemy units that you have to... kill in hth? With your 5" move, no deepstrike until turn 2 unit?
I do wonder if a big biker squad with some plasmas and a lot of combi bolters with tip of the spear and votlw could be a thing that could drown the opponent in save rolls.
I like the look of the new stuff but in my opinion those terminators are insulting to you pure Chaos Space Marines players. They know people will buy it because it's new and clearly didn't inject the same love as they did for the basic CSM.
Brometheus wrote: I like the look of the new stuff but in my opinion those terminators are insulting to you pure Chaos Space Marines players. They know people will buy it because it's new and clearly didn't inject the same love as they did for the basic CSM.
I could tell they were new but have 0 compulsion to add to/replace my current termies. They are undoubtedly nicer than the current ones, but not different or interesting enough to have much appeal for me.
Its hard to tell with the angle, but is that the autocannon from the rumor engine?
Presumably the chain axe and trophy spikes are in there.
----
The stratagems seem needlessly complex. Lots of terms and conditions on 'reroll,' which doesn't really fit the flavor being talked about whenever 'point of the spear' comes up in the fluff.
I'd also like GW to stop using 'bespoke' as 'exclusive to this one subfaction.'. Or preferably stop using it at all. Its almost every other article at this point.
Well it took few seconds to realize that those are new Terminators.
Also, I wouldn't put it pass that there is more to the new Terminators. By looking at the picture it looks like those trophy racks could be added or removed easily.
abby updated stats
for ref thats:
+1T
+1W
Wasn’t he already T5? Isn’t it his Strength that has increased to 5? Plus his extra wound? Think that now makes him Str 10 with the Talon and Str 6 with his sword
Are those *gasp* not-primaris helmets on the terminators' trophy racks? I hope they have enough to fill out a squad, otherwise I'll need to resort to bits resellers. I don't want no primaris in my collection, not even as trophies!
Too bad we'll never see loyalist termies redone to this standard.
I love that the Chaos Termys kept theit tusks.
Gives them an instantly recognisable image different to the loyalists. And other legions specialist Termys.
I'm a bit annoyed, cos I'm probably gonna end up buying some Chaos stuff now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dan2026 wrote: I love that the Chaos Termys kept theit tusks.
Gives them an instantly recognisable image different to the loyalists. And other legions specialist Termys.
I love the tusks, they remind me of this art of the Alpha Legion terminator, which is just awesome.
abby updated stats
for ref thats:
+1T
+1W
Wasn’t he already T5? Isn’t it his Strength that has increased to 5? Plus his extra wound? Think that now makes him Str 10 with the Talon and Str 6 with his sword
my mistake in the rush to post, its +1S not T
woo hoo can wound a knight with the talon on 3's now
It does my heart well to see the older style marine helmets on the trophy racks, not primaris. I wouldn't mind seeing primaris helmets on there, but I don't want them to completely forget about all the dead old marines.
I actually quite like that the Terminators don't look aesthetically different from the old ones. Just better proportioned and with more options (anyone else notice the combi-plasma?).
But it's nice that you'll be able to have both side by side with no significant differences
Yeah, that combi bolter on a termi lord would be savage. I would even be wreckless enough to pop VoTLW and or Endless Cacophony on that dude in a pinch.
Hmmm. The 'heretic Astarte's focus index' has me a little disappointed. Partly because world eaters and emperors children are in there (rather than left out as a tease for later), partly because renegades are a catchall (which doesn't really match up with special rules for specific renegade groups)
Veterans means that relic bolter wounds T8 on a 4, and endless means 8 shots from that thing... If you are facing imperium, its a potential 24 wounds from 8 shots... lol That's a lot from one mere bolter!
Voss wrote: Hmmm. The 'heretic Astarte's focus index' has me a little disappointed. Partly because world eaters and emperors children are in there, partly because renegades are a catchall (which doesn't really match up with special rules for specific renegade groups)
Well what did you expect? They need to have something for World Eater and Emperors Children players to utilize in the interim of potential stand alone books.
As to Renegades, They can easily have multiple chapter relics and WLT/Strats under that one umbrella, it would put them on par with the legions in the current book and they can't exactly have +5 or so extra faction focus articles for each.
The bolter is really nice. Tip of the spear is a nice idea, but we already have good sources of re-rolls, especially black legion. Abaddon gives them, now we have this Chosen of Abaddon to give them. Couldn't tip of the spear have been re-roll wounds or something? Chaos has no source of that for shooting right now. (EDIT: Chosen of the Warmaster is only for Bringers of Despair. So that's really limited.)
Field Commander is nice, but you're gonna pay for it.
Kind of sad to see them pushing Haarken again when he's such hot garbage. Hopefully they'll realize they need to fix him.
The terminator models look good. Nice combi-weapon options too. But yeah, how are we supposed to use these?
As usual, it all comes down to if they are giving CSM and terminators any stat changes or other fixes to actually make them worthwhile.
Also worth noting that Tip of the Spear has no exception to handle if your closest unit is in melee, or has no ranged weapons. So if you go second, your opponent can shut it down pretty easily if you haven't setup right.
Well, we can have maybe plasma bikes in the lead using the speartip strategem to overcharge. They are usually so far ahead they are out of range of Abaddon's aura. Then Abaddon moves up with the rest of the battleline giving the battleline rerolls to hit. And finally, a termi sorceror or lord deep strikes into the back line with bringers of despair terminators (with plasma) and gives those rerolls too.
And definitely go with overcharged plasma. If we are going to get maximum use out of all this rerolling to hit, might as well just overcharge all our plasma guns. lol
Does Abaddon's wound count of 8 qualify him for the varsity team in terms of stat degradation with wound loss or is still below the cutoff where he fights at 100% until he suddenly drops dead suddenly? I don't play the current edition so am not sure myself.
warboss wrote: Does Abaddon's wound count of 8 qualify him for the varsity team in terms of stat degradation with wound loss or is still below the cutoff where he fights at 100% until he suddenly drops dead suddenly? I don't play the current edition so am not sure myself.
Stat drop off doesnt happen until like 10 wounds generally.
warboss wrote: Does Abaddon's wound count of 8 qualify him for the varsity team in terms of stat degradation with wound loss or is still below the cutoff where he fights at 100% until he suddenly drops dead suddenly? I don't play the current edition so am not sure myself.
Stat drop off doesnt happen until like 10 wounds generally.
So for Funsies I compared Abaddon to Primaris Calgar, and they're ALMOST mirror doubles now, Abaddon has 1 more point of STR though, on the table top they're gonna be a close match up
Sotahullu wrote: Also, I wouldn't put it pass that there is more to the new Terminators. By looking at the picture it looks like those trophy racks could be added or removed easily.
Really? On current ones you have nice groove and simple choice of adding or leaving spikes off, on these, there is no groove and spikes look fully integrated...
dan2026 wrote: I love that the Chaos Termys kept theit tusks.
They didn't tho?
They had 5 pairs of different, nice ones, based on antelopes, rhinos, mammoths, elephants, etc, these have lazy, boring same-same boar tusks.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: Are those *gasp* not-primaris helmets on the terminators' trophy racks? I hope they have enough to fill out a squad, otherwise I'll need to resort to bits resellers. I don't want no primaris in my collection, not even as trophies!
Gee, only what, four older mark helmets, no primaris at all?
I was wondering when someone will try to inject primaris whine into yet another completely unrelated thread, took only six posts
warboss wrote: Does Abaddon's wound count of 8 qualify him for the varsity team in terms of stat degradation with wound loss or is still below the cutoff where he fights at 100% until he suddenly drops dead suddenly? I don't play the current edition so am not sure myself.
Stat drop off doesnt happen until like 10 wounds generally.
So for Funsies I compared Abaddon to Primaris Calgar, and they're ALMOST mirror doubles now, Abaddon has 1 more point of STR though, on the table top they're gonna be a close match up
Thanks to both. Yeah, he was my personal obvious goto in regards to a comparison as well even if he hadn't been on the planet after his superprimarizing. The pics usually compare him to Robby G but that seems like it shouldn't be a fair fight despite his killing a clone primarch 10,000 years earlier.
Honestly, what more do people want? The updated chaos marines and terminators aren't super exciting, but why should they be? They are updated improved sculpts of existing units, with additional options included that weren't in the previous kit. They aren't a total re-imagining, but who wants that? They are just an improved sculpt. I kind of like that if you already own tons of chaos marines and terminators, you don't have to buy the new ones to get some great newly invented weapon that didn't exist for the old unit. They just look better.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Honestly, what more do people want? The updated chaos marines and terminators aren't super exciting, but why should they be? They are updated improved sculpts of existing units, with additional options included that weren't in the previous kit. They aren't a total re-imagining, but who wants that? They are just an improved sculpt. I kind of like that if you already own tons of chaos marines and terminators, you don't have to buy the new ones to get some great newly invented weapon that didn't exist for the old unit. They just look better.
Totally. They look great. Terminators with proportions that almost match the artwork and fit the updated model like? Huge improvement and well worth it.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Honestly, what more do people want? The updated chaos marines and terminators aren't super exciting, but why should they be? They are updated improved sculpts of existing units, with additional options included that weren't in the previous kit. They aren't a total re-imagining, but who wants that? They are just an improved sculpt. I kind of like that if you already own tons of chaos marines and terminators, you don't have to buy the new ones to get some great newly invented weapon that didn't exist for the old unit. They just look better.
The marines are leagues away from the previous ones and earned praise easily from most. Terminators are a more recent kit anyway and I agree shouldn't be a huge departure, but as their rules haven't changed nor their appearance really, they seem dull in comparison.
I like all the new Chaos models. Regarding the Termies, they’re indeed very similar to their previous versions, which is good, IMHO. Did people complain when the new Fire Warriors looked mostly the same as the previous ones? Or the most recent Tactical Marines update over the previous kit?
That said, I do hope the new Termie kit has some helmets with the more elaborate horns as well. But on the whole these look great. Clearly the torsos and legs go together in certain combinations only, but while many here don’t seem to like that, I think this result in far better and dynamic poses than the previous “ball-joint” waists.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Honestly, what more do people want? The updated chaos marines and terminators aren't super exciting, but why should they be? They are updated improved sculpts of existing units, with additional options included that weren't in the previous kit. They aren't a total re-imagining, but who wants that? They are just an improved sculpt. I kind of like that if you already own tons of chaos marines and terminators, you don't have to buy the new ones to get some great newly invented weapon that didn't exist for the old unit. They just look better.
Says you. These updates are what I've been waiting 12+ years for. The new models are SHARP, they've got a lot more flavor to them, and I know some people are butthurt by the new design philosophy for Chaos, but I love it. I refused to buy the old Chaos Marines because I knew new ones were coming. Now? I can go whole hog. The variety that you'll get just with Chaos marines by mixing the Shadowspear box with the full kit will be awesome.
As for the Terminators, we've seen one picture. There's a lot more upgrades, heads, weapon options, and other things that are sure to be in the box.
Are they reinventing the wheel with all of this? No, but they're giving us a wheel that's a smoother ride and looks a lot better on our cars. What you're saying is the equivalent of 'should have kept the older, worse-looking wheel'.
I'd imagine that we'll see the Havocs previewed with Iron Warriors and Dark Apostles with the Word Bearers, Sorcerer with Night Lords and any potential Cultist kit(they're currently "NO LONGER AVAILABLE ONLINE" in the US) with Alpha Legion.
Voss wrote: Hmmm. The 'heretic Astarte's focus index' has me a little disappointed. Partly because world eaters and emperors children are in there, partly because renegades are a catchall (which doesn't really match up with special rules for specific renegade groups)
Well what did you expect? They need to have something for World Eater and Emperors Children players to utilize in the interim of potential stand alone books.
Was hoping for the chapter approved situation, where something coming soon doesn't eat space. So, as a sort of subtle alert that EC and WE will get their own books soonish.
The slaanesh range is so close to done, I'm looking for whatever signs I can find.
Especially weird to announce the terminators this way, and in an article that encourages you to order some terminators with your Abaddon, and then shows a picture of the terminators you can't order yet. " If you’re picking up Abaddon, it’d almost be rude not to grab a bunch of Terminators to represent the Bringers of Despair as well."
Crimson wrote: So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...
Geeks being inconsistent and whiny by nature? Say it isn't so!
Crimson wrote: So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...
To be fair, I think CMS players are more worried about rules and points costs than anything else.
They've ditched the blades on their guns and given them more side-by-side combi-weapons, likely to have combi-weapons where you pick what the second gun is on each one. No giant double-handed mace like in that artwork either.
There's nothing that makes these models pop like the redone Power Armour buys.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Especially weird to announce the terminators this way, and in an article that encourages you to order some terminators with your Abaddon, and then shows a picture of the terminators you can't order yet. " If you’re picking up Abaddon, it’d almost be rude not to grab a bunch of Terminators to represent the Bringers of Despair as well."
Honestly, I think it was actually a good way to do it.
They snuck in a preview of a new kit as part of a themed faction focus without doing what(I guarantee you!) someone would have complained about as a "marketing drive".
Crimson wrote: So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...
To be fair, I think CMS players are more worried about rules and points costs than anything else.
This. A lot of Chaos Players feel very slighted by GW ever since the blandening post 3.5th edition codex. We're hoping for good rules again to at least make us decently competitive and to bring regular power armor back into the limelight.
Ignore the people that are complaining about the models in any situation. There will always be complainers. You simply can't please everyone.
For every person that says "These look great!" you'll have five others that say "WAAAAAAAH, THIS DOESN'T FIT MY AESTHETIC!!! WAAAAAAH!!" and with that it will seem like they are louder and more numerous... but for every five of THEM there are 20 lurkers that are like "Hey, these look great!"
Alpharius wrote: Will this new CSM kit trend a little too Black Legion to represent everything...not Black Legion?
I'm, gonna say no
they all look pretty good to me, someone wanting a "cleaner less chaos aestetic" might not like the new kit, but they have the MK3 and MK4 armor kits for that
Not Online!!! wrote: Only the terminators, and they could've been a bit more baroque but they are good imo
I completely agree. I have always considered Araghast the Pillager from Dawn of War II: Chaos Rising (See spoiler below) to be the gold standard of terminator armor design with maybe the exception of the flayed skin face. I always preferred his helmet to that of the tusked ones and added as many as I could to mine own terminators. These new terminators could use just a little more 'baroque' (read: busy) to me, but I am sure they will fit right in with the terminators I already have well enough.
Araghast the Pillager
Spoiler:
My current Black Legion Terminators
Spoiler:
I am certainly going to pick up a set of them. It will definitely be nice to have more than combi-meltas for bolter options. I do hope their is a decent amount of options in the kit especially helmets.
I do like the new stratagems as they don't alter my army much since I already ran a Sorcerer in Terminator armor, two 5 man squads of terminators and a Hellbrute in a Vanguard deteachment. The Hellbrute was only there because I didn't have another squad of terminators. I know it is far from the best, but I really like terminators, so I always run them. Now I have some Stratagems I know I will actually use good or bad.
As for the Tip of the Spear Stratagem, I also think it should have a non-close combat clause which would make it really useful since my aura buffers usually are next to the units closest to the enemy particularly during the early game. Again, I am sure these rules aren't going to revolutionize Chaos Space Marines, but for a pretty casual 40k player who usually runs a heavy marine and terminator army already, these look like they will at least help out some.
Not Online!!! wrote: Only the terminators, and they could've been a bit more baroque but they are good imo
I completely agree. I have always considered Araghast the Pillager from Dawn of War II: Chaos Rising (See spoiler below) to be the gold standard of terminator armor design with maybe the exception of the flayed skin face. I always preferred his helmet to that of the tusked ones and added as many as I could to mine own terminators. These new terminators could use just a little more 'baroque' (read: busy) to me, but I am sure they will fit right in with the terminators I already have well enough.
Araghast the Pillager
Spoiler:
My current Black Legion Terminators
Spoiler:
I am certainly going to pick up a set of them. It will definitely be nice to have more than combi-meltas for bolter options. I do hope their is a decent amount of options in the kit especially helmets.
I do like the new stratagems as they don't alter my army much since I already ran a Sorcerer in Terminator armor, two 5 man squads of terminators and a Hellbrute in a Vanguard deteachment. The Hellbrute was only there because I didn't have another squad of terminators. I know it is far from the best, but I really like terminators, so I always run them. Now I have some Stratagems I know I will actually use good or bad.
As for some Tip of the Spear Stratagem, I also think it should have a non-close combat clause which would make it really useful since my aura buffers usually are next to the units closest to the enemy particularly during the early game. Again, I am sure these rules aren't going to revolutionize Chaos Space Marines, but for a pretty casual 40k player who usually runs a heavy marine and terminator army already, these look like they will at least help out some.
I feel like they will fit perfectly for my little warband, that said i want to know what that havoc Rotor cannon does and sincerly hope that it is a hades autocannon.
Super glad they didn't change the style of them too much, they look great!
Hoping that the kit was made to take into account alternate sprues for specific factions of CSM. Would love IW, NW, WB, & AL centric Terminator options. I feel like the World Eaters, and Emp Chillies need their own sculpts of terminiators though. Why should Nurgle and Tzeentch have all the fun? At least FW did Khorne-centric ones. But I suppose those wouldn't be usable now that they're probably going to retire the current CSM Termie plastic kit (since they were just add ons for that).
Spoiler:
Would love if they went more like Zhufor's helmet, for WE ones, with the roaring mouth and big fangs on them.
I don't believe Slaanesh has ever had terminators, aside from the never released 'multi-God' Terminator lord kit.
Crimson wrote: So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...
To be fair, I think CMS players are more worried about rules and points costs than anything else.
This. A lot of Chaos Players feel very slighted by GW ever since the blandening post 3.5th edition codex. We're hoping for good rules again to at least make us decently competitive and to bring regular power armor back into the limelight.
Ignore the people that are complaining about the models in any situation. There will always be complainers. You simply can't please everyone.
For every person that says "These look great!" you'll have five others that say "WAAAAAAAH, THIS DOESN'T FIT MY AESTHETIC!!! WAAAAAAH!!" and with that it will seem like they are louder and more numerous... but for every five of THEM there are 20 lurkers that are like "Hey, these look great!"
This. I find the direction they are going very encouraging. They are re-doing the existing models, not introducing new ones that would take chaos in a radically new direction (ala Primaris.) This is good. I like what Chaos is. It doesn't need to be changed, it needs to be executed properly.
Crimson wrote: So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...
To be fair, I think CMS players are more worried about rules and points costs than anything else.
This. A lot of Chaos Players feel very slighted by GW ever since the blandening post 3.5th edition codex. We're hoping for good rules again to at least make us decently competitive and to bring regular power armor back into the limelight.
Ignore the people that are complaining about the models in any situation. There will always be complainers. You simply can't please everyone.
For every person that says "These look great!" you'll have five others that say "WAAAAAAAH, THIS DOESN'T FIT MY AESTHETIC!!! WAAAAAAH!!" and with that it will seem like they are louder and more numerous... but for every five of THEM there are 20 lurkers that are like "Hey, these look great!"
This. I find the direction they are going very encouraging. They are re-doing the existing models, not introducing new ones that would take chaos in a radically new direction (ala Primaris.) This is good. I like what Chaos is. It doesn't need to be changed, it needs to be executed properly.
Exactly. They're doing enough by making Daemon Engines and giving us a broader variety of those to pull away from the old complaints of 'Well, space marines get that, so why don't Chaos marines get a Chaos variant of it?' which got old real fast.
Not Online!!! wrote:
I feel like they will fit perfectly for my little warband, that said i want to know what that havoc Rotor cannon does and sincerly hope that it is a hades autocannon.
I will be happy to just have plastic Havocs. I haven't been all that keen on CSM vehicles (too much $$$ for a plastic box) and don't want to deal with finecast/resin (which is also too much $$$) for the Havocs that did exist. If the autocannon spits a decent amount of dakka, I might think about creating a second anti-infantry Havoc squad. But right now, my army could really use lascannons or even missile launchers. My current army has a Land Raider more as a battle tank than anything else since the next best ranged anti-armor I have is a Ectoplasma forgefiend or maybe my Havoc Launcher Rhinos. Sad but true.
Kanluwen wrote:I think you're really in luck Carvilli as it appears that the new kit even has the sword that your chosen example has!
I completely forgot the old kit only had fists (chain and power), power axes and power mauls. I guess it also had combi-flamers. I modeled one of them with it, but I usually ignore it or say that is my count-as combi-plasma.
Alpharius wrote: Will this new CSM kit trend a little too Black Legion to represent everything...not Black Legion?
I'm, gonna say no
Spoiler:
they all look pretty good to me, someone wanting a "cleaner less chaos aestetic" might not like the new kit, but they have the MK3 and MK4 armor kits for that
The Night Lords scheme looks particularly good, in my opinion.
Alpharius wrote: Will this new CSM kit trend a little too Black Legion to represent everything...not Black Legion?
That was the case with the old models as well. They eye of horus and the eight pointed star being very prevalent on the iconography always made heavy converting necessary for cult legions.
They've ditched the blades on their guns and given them more side-by-side combi-weapons, likely to have combi-weapons where you pick what the second gun is on each one. No giant double-handed mace like in that artwork either.
There's nothing that makes these models pop like the redone Power Armour buys.
Weird choice for a refresh.
Unless that mace was for a Lord in Termie armor, or is part of the kit, but not shown in the photograph?
ImAGeek wrote:
The Night Lords scheme looks particularly good, in my opinion.
I always felt to do the Night lords properly, you didn't need the lightning effect on their armor, but they kinda do need the winged helmets. These are nice though. Me, I like the Word Bearers color scheme. Not as much as Black Legion, but I do think crimson and steel work great together. I think maybe the GW example went a little too bright on their Word Bearer mostly with the steel. I think it reads too white and not grey-metallic.
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Alpharius wrote: Will this new CSM kit trend a little too Black Legion to represent everything...not Black Legion?
That was the case with the old models as well. They eye of horus and the eight pointed star being very prevalent on the iconography always made heavy converting necessary for cult legions.
Yes and no. I mean Horus was the Warmaster of all traitor legions, so some warbands might still honor (or shame him wearing his symbol openly) even if they completely now pledge themselves to one of the four. Horus was their stooge champion. At the same time, I could see a player wanting to create a warband that wants nothing to do with Horus and not wanting to use any of the Eye of Horus stuff. The Chaos star is just an icon of Chaos though. It gets used a lot for Chaos Undivided in place of any other icon, but I don't think it is actually the symbol for it. It just indicates Chaos and is neutral of any particular god.
GoatboyBeta wrote: As much as I like the Primaris, these guys make me sad that we probably wont see a loyalist Tartarus redo outside of the SM heroes line.
Go renegade. Raise the sword of rebellion against the Guilliman and his minions!
Crimson wrote: So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...
Geeks being inconsistent and whiny by nature? Say it isn't so!
Entirely different people holding different point of view at different times and dishonest smugmongers trying to pretend there's some inconsistency there to justify their own misplaced sense of superiority? Sy it ain't so!
Maybe the new Chaos Lord isn't a re-boxed Terminator Lord but the Hammer Dude from BSF?
Yodhrin wrote: Entirely different people holding different point of view at different times and dishonest smugmongers trying to pretend there's some inconsistency there to justify their own misplaced sense of superiority?
To be honest I love the new terminators. Yeah ok, they aren't that WOW as the new CSM but they didn't needed because the old CSM were basically tactical marines from 2003 but with Chaos Warrior helmets. Chaos Terminators had much more character to them.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Maybe the new Chaos Lord isn't a re-boxed Terminator Lord but the Hammer Dude from BSF?
Huge if true - considering this would mean chaos get access to Thunder Hammers. Chaos Smash Captain? GODS YES
He's a named character, not a generic.
Well, so are the BA/DA/SW Primaris Lieutenants...technically. And so was Captain Karlaen from Deathstorm prior to being released in a clampack. Not saying it is the same thing, but there have been some instances of named characters being repacked as generics.
ph34r wrote: I honestly can't tell what changed on the chaos terminators other than sharpening up detail and changing the shoulder pads a bit.
Well, those are still terminators after all. Not only all the detail on the body surface were reworked; also the proportions are different. The upper body is bulkier while the shoulderpad seem smaller in comparision. Best change imho are the combi-bolters which got rid of the oversized blade.
Given the increased bulk of the body, I think we can say goodbye to forgeworlds terminator upgrade kit, which was already a bit too small for the current terminators.
Phobosftw wrote: Huge if true - considering this would mean chaos get access to Thunder Hammers. - Chaos Smash Captains? GODS YES
Actually all it would mean is that the Chaos Lord in Power Armour would gain access to a Thunder Hammer, or come with it by default, and have no other options, because that's all the model can have.
Phobosftw wrote: Huge if true - considering this would mean chaos get access to Thunder Hammers. - Chaos Smash Captains? GODS YES
Actually all it would mean is that the Chaos Lord in Power Armour would gain access to a Thunder Hammer, or come with it by default, and have no other options, because that's all the model can have.
Well that'd be just sad, especially when we consider that the good old terminator Lord / sorcerer was one of their better models and still is.
I'd be surprised if the BSF Lord was put into the Chaos Codex. He's got rules as part of the 'Slaves to the Abyss' 'minidex', and that's where they'll leave him.
That said, they really need some more options for plastic Lords and Sorcerers to replace a lot of the old metal/finecast. I bet it's coming, but they don't want anything to outshine Abaddon just yet.
As for bikers... Well, I personally would LOVE new bikers. They're one of my favorite units, despite having woefully old models. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go the way of the dodo...
We'll see what happens. If they're updating Havocs, then Bikers would make sense too...
BUT, do note that despite Havocs and Terminators as confirmed getting new kits, they're available on the GW website just fine. It could just be reboxing. :/
Crimson wrote: So with the Primaris people are crying about the new models being too different and with Chaos they're crying about them not being different enough...
Warhammer 40k is:
20% whining about what you play
20% whining about what you don't play
20% whining about Age of Sigmar
20% arguing about lore
10% crafting and painting
5% list building
3% packing and unpacking models
2% playing the game
H.B.M.C. wrote:Is anyone saying the Termies are a rebox?
drbored wrote:I'd be surprised if the BSF Lord was put into the Chaos Codex. He's got rules as part of the 'Slaves to the Abyss' 'minidex', and that's where they'll leave him.
That said, they really need some more options for plastic Lords and Sorcerers to replace a lot of the old metal/finecast. I bet it's coming, but they don't want anything to outshine Abaddon just yet.
As for bikers... Well, I personally would LOVE new bikers. They're one of my favorite units, despite having woefully old models. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go the way of the dodo...
We'll see what happens. If they're updating Havocs, then Bikers would make sense too...
BUT, do note that despite Havocs and Terminators as confirmed getting new kits, they're available on the GW website just fine. It could just be reboxing. :/
Yes.
Havocs and Terminators are definitely new (we’ve seen the new models...). Bikers are just a reboxing, as they’re on the price list for this saturdays preorders and they didn’t show them last night in the preorder preview, so they’re just the existing models, sadly.
Bizarre. I mean, these Terminators aren't exactly setting the world on fire from an originality perspective, but they're clearly new miniatures once you look at the details. Parts on them don't exist in the current kit, and they've got guns and HTH weapons in opposite hands on some minis, which you can't do with the current kit.
ImAGeek wrote: Havocs and Terminators are definitely new (we’ve seen the new models...). Bikers are just a reboxing, as they’re on the price list for this saturdays preorders and they didn’t show them last night in the preorder preview, so they’re just the existing models, sadly.
Real shame that. Wouldn't it be nice if it were a surprise new biker kit to make the riders at least look like the new PACSMs.
Or *wish-listing machine on* it was a triple kit that allowed you to make regular Chaos Bikers, Berzerker Bikers and Noise Marine Bikers all in one kit! They could even call the Emperor's Children bikers "Doom Riders" in a nice homage to the man himself.
Bizarre. I mean, these Terminators aren't exactly setting the world on fire from an originality perspective, but they're clearly new miniatures once you look at the details. Parts on them don't exist in the current kit, and they've got guns and HTH weapons in opposite hands on some minis, which you can't do with the current kit.
ImAGeek wrote: Havocs and Terminators are definitely new (we’ve seen the new models...). Bikers are just a reboxing, as they’re on the price list for this saturdays preorders and they didn’t show them last night in the preorder preview, so they’re just the existing models, sadly.
Real shame that. Wouldn't it be nice if it were a surprise new biker kit to make the riders at least look like the new PACSMs.
Or *wish-listing machine on* it was a triple kit that allowed you to make regular Chaos Bikers, Berzerker Bikers and Noise Marine Bikers all in one kit! They could even call the Emperor's Children bikers "Doom Riders" in a nice homage to the man himself.
It would be very nice. Not really sure how much grounds there is to complain with all the awesome stuff we are getting, but the biker kits are frankly awful now.
Bizarre. I mean, these Terminators aren't exactly setting the world on fire from an originality perspective, but they're clearly new miniatures once you look at the details. Parts on them don't exist in the current kit, and they've got guns and HTH weapons in opposite hands on some minis, which you can't do with the current kit.
ImAGeek wrote: Havocs and Terminators are definitely new (we’ve seen the new models...). Bikers are just a reboxing, as they’re on the price list for this saturdays preorders and they didn’t show them last night in the preorder preview, so they’re just the existing models, sadly.
Real shame that. Wouldn't it be nice if it were a surprise new biker kit to make the riders at least look like the new PACSMs.
Or *wish-listing machine on* it was a triple kit that allowed you to make regular Chaos Bikers, Berzerker Bikers and Noise Marine Bikers all in one kit! They could even call the Emperor's Children bikers "Doom Riders" in a nice homage to the man himself.
It would be very nice. Not really sure how much grounds there is to complain with all the awesome stuff we are getting, but the biker kits are frankly awful now.
With a range as large as the Space Marine or Chaos Marine ranges, it's unfortunate that they simply can't replace every old kit at the same time. Honestly, they're probably going to phase out things like bikers and all the old rhino-based tanks in the long-run. It's just a matter of waiting it out.
So, in lieu of new bikes, I'll focus on the neat stuff like new terminators and daemon engines.
I wonder if the forgeworld models look out of place with the new kits. I like some of the new stuff, but Forge world just a has a different aesthetic going that I prefer. I'm still planning to get me some gal vorbak at some point, but now I'm hesitant to also pick up the regular heresy era guys. Already converted some of the termies to chaos.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Bizarre. I mean, these Terminators aren't exactly setting the world on fire from an originality perspective, but they're clearly new miniatures once you look at the details. Parts on them don't exist in the current kit, and they've got guns and HTH weapons in opposite hands on some minis, which you can't do with the current kit.
I thought so too at first, but then realized that I probably couldn't tell an old Tau kit for a new one; same goes for a couple of other armies that I rarely play against.
The differences between the old and new crisis suits are pretty masive. Not so much in Fire Warriors or Old Tacticals and New Tacticals.
New Crisis suits have a waist, for a start, and just better detail and proportions
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But not all new kits needs to be a giant reimagination. Specially when the basic concepts and old models are just very good. I would love a new possessed and khorne berzerker kit, reimagined. But Eldar Aspect Warrios don't need that heavy of a redesign to look good.
Nice to see them all being redone, its about time and they can fit in nicely with the older stuff as well so ive not got much to moan about here apart from the tusks, never really liked those !!
I think the old Chaos Terminator models already looked fantastic. So, I am kinda glad the new ones are similar to the old ones, just with slightly more detail. Honestly there was nothing wrong with the old ones. In fact, the old terminator models were pretty amazing already and I loved them. So, the new terminator models are great !
Put in a ticket with the Dub, assuming I'll end up calling and get it sorted. But still.
