NAVARRO wrote: Has anyone crunched the numbers and figured out the Primaris total points wise? How much are we looking at in the box?
think it was 700-800 points or there abouts.
Thanks. That and the dark imperium primaris and your set with a big part of an army.
yup. although you'd proably need to shave some points as you've got proably close to 600 points in HQs from those two boxes alone, what with 2 captains, 3 leuitenants, a Librarian and a ancient.
Ancients are Elites, but that doesn't really affect the point.
yeah I meant characters rather then HQs but yeah definatly. I'd be curious what the best mix of HQs for a mixed force of normal primaris/vanguard would be.
Same, I guess you can build different lists around different characters ( space wolves have plenty of those) so the extra HQ is ok. Taking HQ away you still get some serious chunk of an army with this box and DI.
Racerguy180 wrote: I think that a full fledged traitors, heretics & renegades something or other is coming for this summer.
Sororitas vs Traitors would be a great boxed set.
Yeah, Sisters vs a bunch of Heretics seems like a really good choice for a box. Could even reuse the BSFsorcerers, traitor guards and beastmen for that release wave, too.
I’m so happy about the new servants of the abyss hqs I can see a number of chaos armies taking them the 2x traitor guard and beastmen as a super cheap battalion with their armies.
Sisters are going to be end-of-2019. Rumors point to it. GW behavior points to it. Any other expectation is foolish hope.
There was some information, however, that said besides Sisters, there would be 3 other Codexes. I'd love for those to be World Eaters, Emperor's Children, and Traitor Guardsmen, but that's a bit too much Chaos for one year.
drbored wrote: Sisters are going to be end-of-2019. Rumors point to it. GW behavior points to it. Any other expectation is foolish hope.
There was some information, however, that said besides Sisters, there would be 3 other Codexes. I'd love for those to be World Eaters, Emperor's Children, and Traitor Guardsmen, but that's a bit too much Chaos for one year.
3 new codexes, or just 3 other releases? Because I'd honestly put money on SM and CSM being two of them.
drbored wrote: Sisters are going to be end-of-2019. Rumors point to it. GW behavior points to it. Any other expectation is foolish hope.
There was some information, however, that said besides Sisters, there would be 3 other Codexes. I'd love for those to be World Eaters, Emperor's Children, and Traitor Guardsmen, but that's a bit too much Chaos for one year.
3 new codexes, or just 3 other releases? Because I'd honestly put money on SM and CSM being two of them.
I don't think they specified. I agree, I could see Space Marines and Chaos Marines being two of them as well.
However, I could also see GW putting the Vanguard and Daemonkin stuff into Vigilus part 2 and not having a Codex release at all. Why invalidate a past book when you can simply force players to bring EVEN MORE books to the game table!
Just think of the fun you could have with a Crimson Fists Space Marine army! Not only would you need the Codex, you'd also need Chapter Approved, the various FAQ's, January's White Dwarf, Vigilus Part 1 and Part 2, AND the Vanguard Marines Codex to play your army! Amazing!
Oh, you want to have even MORE fun by allying with another faction? Great! Just add in the two Imperium Indexes, the 8+ other Imperium Codexes, February and March's White Dwarfs, and all of THOSE FAQs too!
Remember when GW promised us they wouldn't be throwing tons of rulebooks at us? Man those were the times.
drbored wrote: Sisters are going to be end-of-2019. Rumors point to it. GW behavior points to it. Any other expectation is foolish hope.
There was some information, however, that said besides Sisters, there would be 3 other Codexes. I'd love for those to be World Eaters, Emperor's Children, and Traitor Guardsmen, but that's a bit too much Chaos for one year.
3 new codexes, or just 3 other releases? Because I'd honestly put money on SM and CSM being two of them.
I totally understand how the "6 books to play one army" thing is a pain in the butt; but as a casual player it's been a non issue for me. I play 6 armies and don't own a single 8th ed codex. (Saves me hundreds of dollars, which I spend on models instead). Between online resources and battle scribe, I get my rules that way. And yeah I know, battle scribe gets things wrong, but in my play group, we kinda all just let it slide. I get that doesn't fly in competitive environment, and I'm not arguing that it should; it's just that for my group all the unit and points changes are pretty painless when its built in to our army builder. I feel like moving the rules to a living digital document would be the most revolutionary and intuitive thing GW could do, but I don't see it happening soon. It's a bummer. I would honestly be willing to pay a small subscription fee if they had such a living document, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
rooster92 wrote: I totally understand how the "6 books to play one army" thing is a pain in the butt; but as a casual player it's been a non issue for me. I play 6 armies and don't own a single 8th ed codex. (Saves me hundreds of dollars, which I spend on models instead). Between online resources and battle scribe, I get my rules that way. And yeah I know, battle scribe gets things wrong, but in my play group, we kinda all just let it slide. I get that doesn't fly in competitive environment, and I'm not arguing that it should; it's just that for my group all the unit and points changes are pretty painless when its built in to our army builder. I feel like moving the rules to a living digital document would be the most revolutionary and intuitive thing GW could do, but I don't see it happening soon. It's a bummer. I would honestly be willing to pay a small subscription fee if they had such a living document, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
My first instinct was to be upset at you for not supporting the company and playing with half-correct rules out of Battlescribe, but A. battlescribe is updated pretty regularly and B. that's just me being salty because I did buy the books and not a single one is 100% accurate at this point thanks to FAQs and points changes.
I would volunteer for the job at GW to compile the online living document. You could pay me like 12 USD an hour to do it from home. Whenever an FAQ comes around, just pass it my way and I'd update the site for them. It's mostly copy-paste and then hitting 'save and upload' on wordpress.
Why doesn't GW do it? Because then they wouldn't be able to make 80% profit off of books that they can sell you every year.
drbored wrote: Sisters are going to be end-of-2019. Rumors point to it. GW behavior points to it. Any other expectation is foolish hope.
There was some information, however, that said besides Sisters, there would be 3 other Codexes. I'd love for those to be World Eaters, Emperor's Children, and Traitor Guardsmen, but that's a bit too much Chaos for one year.
They could easily release a battle box of sisters vs. R&H and not have a "full release" of Sisters until later in the year though. How long did DG wait for a full dex after DI dropped?
I don't know. Their inclusion into 6th edition could have been any number of things that GW wanted to do. Maybe they were just generic filler villains for the Dark Angels to fight where the writers made up a story to go with their model design like you said. Maybe they meant to be the next big Chaos Space Marine thing and/or be the CSM poster boys but never caught on or something. Maybe they were simply meant to plant idea seeds on how even non-traitor legion CSM could be done. I can't say. Looking into a little more, it seems that GW seemed to want Crimson Slaughter to be a thing, but they never could decide on what that thing was. I also feel that Crimson Slaughter expansions and/or codex may have not sold well enough and/or the player base didn't become abuzz with them.
All I am saying is that the Dark Vengeance fluff was written to explain why the models looked the way they did. The writing spoke of the Chosen in the set like Space Hulk talked of the Terminators giving each one a name and a sentence or two on them. I can't remember if the Dark Angel tactical marines got the same treatment in the set. I painted mine in Black Legion and still use them. Although, I had to have the dual lightning claw one be the Aspiring Champion after GW decided to FAQ out that weapon loadout for non-champion Chosen for some reason. Or they can be count-as Fallen which still can have dual lightning claws even though the Dark Angel Veterans kit doesn't really allow it.
The Chosen miniatures - like all the rest - will have come first, with the fluff following on. The Crimson Slaughter seemed to be the Next Big Thing, as all the Chaos marine units on the website were repainted from Black Legion to Crimson Slaughter, they were the villains in the Officio Assasinorum Execution Force game and they were being set up with a rivalry to the Dark Angels and Red Corsairs. Apparently no-one in 8th edition could be bothered with them, although IIRC they get a quick mention in theConquest partwork fluff.
I don't know. Their inclusion into 6th edition could have been any number of things that GW wanted to do. Maybe they were just generic filler villains for the Dark Angels to fight where the writers made up a story to go with their model design like you said. Maybe they meant to be the next big Chaos Space Marine thing and/or be the CSM poster boys but never caught on or something. Maybe they were simply meant to plant idea seeds on how even non-traitor legion CSM could be done. I can't say. Looking into a little more, it seems that GW seemed to want Crimson Slaughter to be a thing, but they never could decide on what that thing was. I also feel that Crimson Slaughter expansions and/or codex may have not sold well enough and/or the player base didn't become abuzz with them.
All I am saying is that the Dark Vengeance fluff was written to explain why the models looked the way they did. The writing spoke of the Chosen in the set like Space Hulk talked of the Terminators giving each one a name and a sentence or two on them. I can't remember if the Dark Angel tactical marines got the same treatment in the set. I painted mine in Black Legion and still use them. Although, I had to have the dual lightning claw one be the Aspiring Champion after GW decided to FAQ out that weapon loadout for non-champion Chosen for some reason. Or they can be count-as Fallen which still can have dual lightning claws even though the Dark Angel Veterans kit doesn't really allow it.
The Chosen miniatures - like all the rest - will have come first, with the fluff following on. The Crimson Slaughter seemed to be the Next Big Thing, as all the Chaos marine units on the website were repainted from Black Legion to Crimson Slaughter, they were the villains in the Officio Assasinorum Execution Force game and they were being set up with a rivalry to the Dark Angels and Red Corsairs. Apparently no-one in 8th edition could be bothered with them, although IIRC they get a quick mention in theConquest partwork fluff.
The way GW just dropped the Crimson Slaughter was jarring.
I don't know. Their inclusion into 6th edition could have been any number of things that GW wanted to do. Maybe they were just generic filler villains for the Dark Angels to fight where the writers made up a story to go with their model design like you said. Maybe they meant to be the next big Chaos Space Marine thing and/or be the CSM poster boys but never caught on or something. Maybe they were simply meant to plant idea seeds on how even non-traitor legion CSM could be done. I can't say. Looking into a little more, it seems that GW seemed to want Crimson Slaughter to be a thing, but they never could decide on what that thing was. I also feel that Crimson Slaughter expansions and/or codex may have not sold well enough and/or the player base didn't become abuzz with them.
All I am saying is that the Dark Vengeance fluff was written to explain why the models looked the way they did. The writing spoke of the Chosen in the set like Space Hulk talked of the Terminators giving each one a name and a sentence or two on them. I can't remember if the Dark Angel tactical marines got the same treatment in the set. I painted mine in Black Legion and still use them. Although, I had to have the dual lightning claw one be the Aspiring Champion after GW decided to FAQ out that weapon loadout for non-champion Chosen for some reason. Or they can be count-as Fallen which still can have dual lightning claws even though the Dark Angel Veterans kit doesn't really allow it.
The Chosen miniatures - like all the rest - will have come first, with the fluff following on. The Crimson Slaughter seemed to be the Next Big Thing, as all the Chaos marine units on the website were repainted from Black Legion to Crimson Slaughter, they were the villains in the Officio Assasinorum Execution Force game and they were being set up with a rivalry to the Dark Angels and Red Corsairs. Apparently no-one in 8th edition could be bothered with them, although IIRC they get a quick mention in theConquest partwork fluff.
The way GW just dropped the Crimson Slaughter was jarring.
They were pretty much killed off in Traitor's Hate. Abaddon sent them into the meatgrinder. I can live with that .
It's such an amazing model, and I think it's the first time I've been blown away by something chaos since I first saw the Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut model.
Pretty cool model. Hopefully there are a few additional head and arm options for the rider, but with their tendency for doing more and more single pose models, I wouldn't count on it.
I wish they'd do a new Rhino and Land Raider with armour in the style of their Deamon engines, but it probably won't happen. Guess they'd rather invent new vehicles like they did for the Death Guard. But those spiky Rhinos and Land Raiders will really stand out negatively in the new Chaos range...
stahly wrote: Pretty cool model. Hopefully there are a few additional head and arm options for the rider, but with their tendency for doing more and more single pose models, I wouldn't count on it.
I'm fairly sure this isn't going to be an 'easy to build' model in any way...
Whoever wrote this obviously never played reivers on tabletop. I wish they where hundred as good as these guys
Also, looks like minis dictate not only rules, but fluff now too. 4 or 5 poses described in this are 100% copies of the actual minis, something that was pretty jarring. Down to plot point RADICAL mook. And why the hell reiver who lost his knife clowned around with a bar instead of taking (much better) weapons of the fallen? GW forbid cross army bit conversions?
stahly wrote: Pretty cool model. Hopefully there are a few additional head and arm options for the rider, but with their tendency for doing more and more single pose models, I wouldn't count on it.
I'm fairly sure this isn't going to be an 'easy to build' model in any way...
How so? That's about size and complexity of Astreia, and she is ETB...
Daemon engine forces will look pretty cool on the tabletop.
Now we just need propper lost and the damned /R&H rules because clearly gw has the models for the list and we have anything Chaos representable on the table.
I don't know. Their inclusion into 6th edition could have been any number of things that GW wanted to do. Maybe they were just generic filler villains for the Dark Angels to fight where the writers made up a story to go with their model design like you said. Maybe they meant to be the next big Chaos Space Marine thing and/or be the CSM poster boys but never caught on or something. Maybe they were simply meant to plant idea seeds on how even non-traitor legion CSM could be done. I can't say. Looking into a little more, it seems that GW seemed to want Crimson Slaughter to be a thing, but they never could decide on what that thing was. I also feel that Crimson Slaughter expansions and/or codex may have not sold well enough and/or the player base didn't become abuzz with them.
All I am saying is that the Dark Vengeance fluff was written to explain why the models looked the way they did. The writing spoke of the Chosen in the set like Space Hulk talked of the Terminators giving each one a name and a sentence or two on them. I can't remember if the Dark Angel tactical marines got the same treatment in the set. I painted mine in Black Legion and still use them. Although, I had to have the dual lightning claw one be the Aspiring Champion after GW decided to FAQ out that weapon loadout for non-champion Chosen for some reason. Or they can be count-as Fallen which still can have dual lightning claws even though the Dark Angel Veterans kit doesn't really allow it.
The Chosen miniatures - like all the rest - will have come first, with the fluff following on. The Crimson Slaughter seemed to be the Next Big Thing, as all the Chaos marine units on the website were repainted from Black Legion to Crimson Slaughter, they were the villains in the Officio Assasinorum Execution Force game and they were being set up with a rivalry to the Dark Angels and Red Corsairs. Apparently no-one in 8th edition could be bothered with them, although IIRC they get a quick mention in theConquest partwork fluff.
The way GW just dropped the Crimson Slaughter was jarring.
Yeah, didn't they literally die in traitor's hate/angel's blade, reduced in number to exactly the guys out of the 6th ed starter box? I seem to remember only Vrosh, 5 chosen and 1 helbrute escaped.
I don't know. Their inclusion into 6th edition could have been any number of things that GW wanted to do. Maybe they were just generic filler villains for the Dark Angels to fight where the writers made up a story to go with their model design like you said. Maybe they meant to be the next big Chaos Space Marine thing and/or be the CSM poster boys but never caught on or something. Maybe they were simply meant to plant idea seeds on how even non-traitor legion CSM could be done. I can't say. Looking into a little more, it seems that GW seemed to want Crimson Slaughter to be a thing, but they never could decide on what that thing was. I also feel that Crimson Slaughter expansions and/or codex may have not sold well enough and/or the player base didn't become abuzz with them.
All I am saying is that the Dark Vengeance fluff was written to explain why the models looked the way they did. The writing spoke of the Chosen in the set like Space Hulk talked of the Terminators giving each one a name and a sentence or two on them. I can't remember if the Dark Angel tactical marines got the same treatment in the set. I painted mine in Black Legion and still use them. Although, I had to have the dual lightning claw one be the Aspiring Champion after GW decided to FAQ out that weapon loadout for non-champion Chosen for some reason. Or they can be count-as Fallen which still can have dual lightning claws even though the Dark Angel Veterans kit doesn't really allow it.
The Chosen miniatures - like all the rest - will have come first, with the fluff following on. The Crimson Slaughter seemed to be the Next Big Thing, as all the Chaos marine units on the website were repainted from Black Legion to Crimson Slaughter, they were the villains in the Officio Assasinorum Execution Force game and they were being set up with a rivalry to the Dark Angels and Red Corsairs. Apparently no-one in 8th edition could be bothered with them, although IIRC they get a quick mention in theConquest partwork fluff.
The way GW just dropped the Crimson Slaughter was jarring.
Yeah, didn't they literally die in traitor's hate/angel's blade, reduced in number to exactly the guys out of the 6th ed starter box? I seem to remember only Vrosh, 5 chosen and 1 helbrute escaped.
Sounds like it is time for Vrosh and Hellbrutes most Excellent Adventure!
Battle-ready Chaos Space Marine tutorial is up, showing how to paint one of the Shadowspear models. Only real noteworthy thing is that for once, comments are unblocked. Probably an oversight, though maybe they're taking feedback on youtube now?
Also re: my point about daemon engines all sucking because they hit on 4+
Haha me too. Looks like Daemon Engines are back on the menu, boys!
This guy is a big deal in many ways. Being able to take a big model like this as an HQ is interesting too. I'm guessing he'll be ~225-250pts though. I hope this kit builds multiple units. It'd be nice to have a unit that's just the mount, and perhaps a version with a different rider? Well I can't get too picky!
aka_mythos wrote: The only thing that looks funny to me is the pintle weapon... I think I want to put it on his mechadendrite rig.
Exactly my thought. Love everything but the weapon mount.
Actually, I have to agree here that weapon mount is weird.
100% fine with it myself, I figure it's riding the hump of the mount and not necessarily being engaged right now, plus adds to the "I'mma socket this horrific weapon on right here because I'm a daemon engineer lulz" / "symmetry is for lapdogs" flavor.
Still not big on bling, but I'll be damned if that wasn't a fething fantastic model. GW is hitting it out of the park for anyone liking a little bit of Chaos in their Marines.
I'll also be seeing if I can get that Chainglaive arm on the cheap. I'm sure I can do something with it...
Also re: my point about daemon engines all sucking because they hit on 4+
Haha me too. Looks like Daemon Engines are back on the menu, boys!
This guy is a big deal in many ways. Being able to take a big model like this as an HQ is interesting too. I'm guessing he'll be ~225-250pts though. I hope this kit builds multiple units. It'd be nice to have a unit that's just the mount, and perhaps a version with a different rider? Well I can't get too picky!
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Ork Trikeboss packs a lot of punch in 120 points. This guy will be less than 200 unless he has a ton of wounds.
I like the rider, but the mount is as ugly as all of the daemon engine models. If it wasn't so outlandish I'd have grabbed it up and modified it as a Dark Abeyant fella...might still give it a try, but not at the obnoxious MSRP it'll likely have.
Many big monsters or mounted characters end up being hard to use on the table if they are over 9 wounds. I think that's a big consideration. And if they are over 9 wounds, do they have an invuln save?
Yeah, I don't get how anyone can not like this monstrosity. It's probably the most "Chaos" Chaos model that GW has put out in years. I for one think it's fantastic and it shows how Games Workshop has come a long way from thinking Dinobots make good Daemon Engines.
It's the "most Chaos" part that some of us don't like. Chaos tainted marines can exist without being cranked-to-11-I'm-so-evil-look-at-all-my-spikes, etc.
I play Renegades for instances...so this model does more or less nothing for me. I think the rider looks neat, but I don't need mechano-hentai riding beasts.
So, this guy is sort of like a Tech Marine on bike, only in this case it's a warpsmith on a daemon engine. Basically a mounted engineer with HQ functions, yeah?
Elbows wrote: It's the "most Chaos" part that some of us don't like. Chaos tainted marines can exist without being cranked-to-11-I'm-so-evil-look-at-all-my-spikes, etc.
So how would you have done a Lord riding a Daemon Engine that would appeal to you, exactly? I get not wanting all your marines to be hyper-mutated and Chaos-y if you're playing Renegades, but if the model is literally "Chaos Lord riding a Daemon Engine" I'm not sure what else you were expecting, since that's pretty much spot-on with the Dark Mechanicus aesthetic that Daemon Engines are supposed to have.
Elbows wrote: It's the "most Chaos" part that some of us don't like. Chaos tainted marines can exist without being cranked-to-11-I'm-so-evil-look-at-all-my-spikes, etc.
So how would you have done a Lord riding a Daemon Engine that would appeal to you, exactly? I get not wanting all your marines to be hyper-mutated and Chaos-y if you're playing Renegades, but if the model is literally "Chaos Lord riding a Daemon Engine" I'm not sure what else you were expecting.
My issue is the spider has a hump resembling the forge/maulerfiend so the rider is seated waaaay back on rear of it. It looks unbalanced.
And the mouth/head of the spider just looks bad to me.
Now maybe with some conversion work it might look ok, but as it is it's crossing that boundary between miniature and kid's toy.
Darth Bob wrote: Yeah, I don't get how anyone can not like this monstrosity. It's probably the most "Chaos" Chaos model that GW has put out in years.
It is because there is a significant contingent of Chaos Marine players who don't actually want Chaos in their Chaos Marines. They just want to play loyalist marines that are called Chaos Marines.
I count potentially three flamer weapons on that thing (mouth, pintle mounted and tail). If those are all bale flamers, that is going to be a lot of hurt.
While I really like the model, it has some minor issues. Getting rid of the tendendrils will make it look less busy. Also the pintle mounted flamer looks better than the autocannon.
Is there really any point in arguing over aesthetics? Of course people will have different opinions.
More importantly, will it affect the Chaos list substantially to be considered a good choice. I guess knowing how many wounds it has would be a start. If it's 10+ then I'd argue that it is already DOA.
I don't know. Their inclusion into 6th edition could have been any number of things that GW wanted to do. Maybe they were just generic filler villains for the Dark Angels to fight where the writers made up a story to go with their model design like you said. Maybe they meant to be the next big Chaos Space Marine thing and/or be the CSM poster boys but never caught on or something. Maybe they were simply meant to plant idea seeds on how even non-traitor legion CSM could be done. I can't say. Looking into a little more, it seems that GW seemed to want Crimson Slaughter to be a thing, but they never could decide on what that thing was. I also feel that Crimson Slaughter expansions and/or codex may have not sold well enough and/or the player base didn't become abuzz with them.
All I am saying is that the Dark Vengeance fluff was written to explain why the models looked the way they did. The writing spoke of the Chosen in the set like Space Hulk talked of the Terminators giving each one a name and a sentence or two on them. I can't remember if the Dark Angel tactical marines got the same treatment in the set. I painted mine in Black Legion and still use them. Although, I had to have the dual lightning claw one be the Aspiring Champion after GW decided to FAQ out that weapon loadout for non-champion Chosen for some reason. Or they can be count-as Fallen which still can have dual lightning claws even though the Dark Angel Veterans kit doesn't really allow it.
The Chosen miniatures - like all the rest - will have come first, with the fluff following on. The Crimson Slaughter seemed to be the Next Big Thing, as all the Chaos marine units on the website were repainted from Black Legion to Crimson Slaughter, they were the villains in the Officio Assasinorum Execution Force game and they were being set up with a rivalry to the Dark Angels and Red Corsairs. Apparently no-one in 8th edition could be bothered with them, although IIRC they get a quick mention in theConquest partwork fluff.
The way GW just dropped the Crimson Slaughter was jarring.
They were pretty much killed off in Traitor's Hate. Abaddon sent them into the meatgrinder. I can live with that .
He didn't bring his whole force to the battle in traitor's hate though he did lose a lot of his guys. They stole a traitor transport and escaped and also still has his pretty awesome space hulk base.
bullyboy wrote: Is there really any point in arguing over aesthetics? Of course people will have different opinions.
More importantly, will it affect the Chaos list substantially to be considered a good choice. I guess knowing how many wounds it has would be a start. If it's 10+ then I'd argue that it is already DOA.
if it's 9 wounds it'll be an AMAZING HQ to follow a back of maulerfiends up the board
The only thing I dont like about that model is the 'power' lever I wanna call it on the haft of that halberd, its too far up to ever be used when that guy is swinging it.
bullyboy wrote: Is there really any point in arguing over aesthetics? Of course people will have different opinions.
More importantly, will it affect the Chaos list substantially to be considered a good choice. I guess knowing how many wounds it has would be a start. If it's 10+ then I'd argue that it is already DOA.
if it's 9 wounds it'll be an AMAZING HQ to follow a back of maulerfiends up the board
My heart wants it to be 9 wounds, my knowledge that GW doesn't give anything too good to Chaos tells me that he will probably have like 12 wounds.
bullyboy wrote: Is there really any point in arguing over aesthetics? Of course people will have different opinions.
More importantly, will it affect the Chaos list substantially to be considered a good choice. I guess knowing how many wounds it has would be a start. If it's 10+ then I'd argue that it is already DOA.
if it's 9 wounds it'll be an AMAZING HQ to follow a back of maulerfiends up the board
My heart wants it to be 9 wounds, my knowledge that GW doesn't give anything too good to Chaos tells me that he will probably have like 12 wounds.
Maybe they'll give it 8 wounds, for the 8 pointed star?
But he makes me a little salty. He makes the marine half look pathetic, specifically the captain.
I know this is the chaos revamp release but I feel a bit too whelmed by the loyalist half
Presumably vangaurd marines will get their own release in the near future and you can get it'll include some new toys.
We don't want boring, uninspired, redundant Vanguard units. We want something with a "wow!" factor. Something that plucks the gaps in the severely limited Primaris range in options and rules.
CSM players ask for Dark Mechanicus for years and get it. Loyalist get models no-one asked for, instead.
Basically anything less than or exactly 9 wounds and the character can only be targeted if closest to the firing unit or by snipers. So if you go above 9 wounds there's a spot where it's actually quite detrimental. Anything less than 14wounds is probably almost always worse than just 9 wounds
Considering I'm of the belief that Chaos should aspire to look like something off the cover of a Heavy Metal CD case, I think it nails that perfectly. That it also seems to function beyond just a tech priest on a bike is a good bonus.
Luke_Prowler wrote: Considering I'm of the belief that Chaos should aspire to look like something off the cover of a Heavy Metal CD case, I think it nails that perfectly. That it also seems to function beyond just a tech priest on a bike is a good bonus.
Yeah this guy is dialing it up to 11.
Its so ostentatious I love it!
This is a joke suggesting that we could well be in for a primaris captain on drakoth (o the lulz!), poking fun at marine players jealous of chaos frothers getting a big mounted hero, at those who feel Stormcast Eternals are simply space marines in fantasy, at the concept that there should naturally be parity in the releases for SM + CSM (one side gets a big mounted hero, other side should get a big mounted hero), at the drakoth for being a horrible looking monster (in large part because of its head), at the helstalker for sort of being dumb looking too (partially because of its head), and also at GeeDub because I actually almost think we might get a primaris captain on a big lizard (but it's more likely to be a big jetbike).
I think that covers it. I don't post things on accident or just to spam, bro. Sometimes they don't turn out funny or insightful, but they aren't random.
Cred to Crablezworth on the conversion, I'm surprised I couldn't find another one, and he did quite a solid job on this dude.
Chopxsticks wrote: Not knowing much about 40k and looking to get into it from this release, whats the importance of 10+ wounds?
When a character's original wound value is below 10, he cannot be targeted by enemy shooting unless he is the closest unit to the enemy. At 10 or above, the character acts like a normal unit and can be targeted regardless of whether he is the closest unit to the enemy or not.
But he makes me a little salty. He makes the marine half look pathetic, specifically the captain.
I know this is the chaos revamp release but I feel a bit too whelmed by the loyalist half
Presumably vangaurd marines will get their own release in the near future and you can get it'll include some new toys.
We don't want boring, uninspired, redundant Vanguard units. We want something with a "wow!" factor. Something that plucks the gaps in the severely limited Primaris range in options and rules.
CSM players ask for Dark Mechanicus for years and get it. Loyalist get models no-one asked for, instead.
Compare what the Loyal Marines have received since 5th edition to what the Chaos Marines have received since 5th edition. Not counting anything only sold in a box set; not counting anything that is yet to come out; not counting things that both Chaos and Loyalists can both use (like Cypher). Since 5th edition, the Loyal Marines have received 27 new or updated units, compared to Chaos' 12.
Also, Chaos players asked for Dark Mechanicum for years. GW instead gave Imperial players a brand new loyal Mechanicum army (complete with 13 units) and gave Chaos nothing. Not to mention GW gave Imperial players an entire Custodes range, Sisters of Silence, 4 new assassins, 2 new Inquisitors, updated Guard models (including a new Scions sub-faction), Deathwatch (a brand new way to play with existing models and a handful of cool new kits) AND update ranges for the Space Wolves, the Dark Angels and the Blood Angels (which included the spreading out of previously Codex Marines' toys to all the other factions). To counter that, Chaos received new Daemon models (which are shared between 40k and AoS), a small Thousand Sons army and a very nice Deathguard army.
I am pretty sure loyalists are doing just fine. Chaos deserves nice, new things. Some of our most iconic units are like 20 years old.
I really, really want to love this new mini. But... that face. The rider's face is goofy, like plastic Chaplain goofy. If there's an alternate head in that kit then he's perfect.
This is a joke suggesting that we could well be in for a primaris captain on drakoth (o the lulz!), poking fun at marine players jealous of chaos frothers getting a big mounted hero, at those who feel Stormcast Eternals are simply space marines in fantasy, at the concept that there should naturally be parity in the releases for SM + CSM (one side gets a big mounted hero, other side should get a big mounted hero), at the drakoth for being a horrible looking monster (in large part because of its head), at the helstalker for sort of being dumb looking too (partially because of its head), and also at GeeDub because I actually almost think we might get a primaris captain on a big lizard (but it's more likely to be a big jetbike).
I think that covers it. I don't post things on accident or just to spam, bro. Sometimes they don't turn out funny or insightful, but they aren't random.
Cred to Crablezworth on the conversion, I'm surprised I couldn't find another one, and he did quite a solid job on this dude.
Thanks for the explanation. Very little of that came across from your post. And yeah, it hardly was funny or insightful.
I can speak only for myself, but I don't ask for parity. I ask for GW to put as much effort and creativity in CSM and Primaris releases. The lack of interest for Vanguard marines should teach them a lesson. I didn't ask for a Captain mounted on a big beast, either; the strawman is quite ridiculous. We asked for exciting Primaris models. Reavers with a new helmet, Primaris characters with ponchos and bizarre floating Devastators hardly fit into that.
Further Oldmarine-to-Primaris character conversions (if GW is that allergic to give us more than 1 Primarch Vs 2 and s half Chaotic Primarchs) would fit the bill imho. Primaris Lysander? Azrael? Dante? Ragnar Blackmane? Pure awesome, without needing to jump the shark.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So basically run this guy or two up with Maulerfiends and Blood Slaughterers and Heldrakes, and keep Abigail camped in the back with shooting ones.
More "fun" than competitive but I think there could be a good amount of threats in such a list.
could be although I think you're wasting abby if he's not running into Melee myself
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So basically run this guy or two up with Maulerfiends and Blood Slaughterers and Heldrakes, and keep Abigail camped in the back with shooting ones.
More "fun" than competitive but I think there could be a good amount of threats in such a list.
could be although I think you're wasting abby if he's not running into Melee myself
I mean it would probably be cheaper to just do another spider guy and a Lord, but Abigail would make screening Cultists immune to Morale and give insane overwatch. The additional CP is a nice bonus too.
Actually you can run a Biker Lord in that first scenario too with the Spider dudes. Lasherfiends would land an insane number of hits.
aka_mythos wrote: The only thing that looks funny to me is the pintle weapon... I think I want to put it on his mechadendrite rig.
Exactly my thought. Love everything but the weapon mount.
Actually, I have to agree here that weapon mount is weird.
100% fine with it myself, I figure it's riding the hump of the mount and not necessarily being engaged right now, plus adds to the "I'mma socket this horrific weapon on right here because I'm a daemon engineer lulz" / "symmetry is for lapdogs" flavor.
My issue is for a Dark Mechanicum -ish guy... a conventionally mounted and fired pintle weapon, even one being fired by his mechdendrite pulling the trigger just seems weird. The location is kinda weird and there are easily a good number of alternatives that would work better. They could mount it to the mechandrite harness directly, or mount it as to the spider things head, or have it fired from a tail like the Brass Scorpion. My guess is that someone really wanted to make clear the Lord riding it was firing that gun, presumably to justify whatever superior BS it has over other Daemon Engines.
Crimson wrote:
Darth Bob wrote: Yeah, I don't get how anyone can not like this monstrosity. It's probably the most "Chaos" Chaos model that GW has put out in years.
It is because there is a significant contingent of Chaos Marine players who don't actually want Chaos in their Chaos Marines. They just want to play loyalist marines that are called Chaos Marines.
I think that mischaracterizes the reality a bit. The lore paints CSM as being far more diverse than our rules presently allow. Within Chaos you have those that have fully embraced one of the big 4 gods... you have Heresy era legionaries that have some semblance of their old heirarchies and have done their best to swear off the ruinous powers... you have the renegade loyalist chapters... and you have particular groups that have embraced chaos wholly but undividedly... In the lore they have differences in what their forces look like and what sort of weapons and wargear they use, the rules don't really reflect that, models like this while very awesome and have me excited don't really reflect some of those flavors. For example, in the lore there is schism within the Iron Warriors between those that would and wouldn't want to use daemons/daemon engines/sorcerery... In the lore, they are Chaos Marines, however the ability to represent them is severely limited. This new model, the obliterators, the other daemon engines, the possessed are exactly what this group has sworn off. Then you have groups like Alpha Legion that actively steal Imperial weaponry, undermine and subvert the imperium from with, and continue to fight with whatever organization they've had for some time. It would be very difficult for Alpha Legion to do many of the things they do in the lore with Daemon Engines and all the overtly very chaos units. They are Chaos Space Marines, and units like Obliterators, Possessed, the daemon engines etc don't do as much to represent them. That's before you get to Renegades that in the lore are explicitly using certain weapons they only have because they were at one time loyalists in the 41st millennium... units like these really don't do much to represent them. This stuff we're getting now, is important to giving the undivided chaos a distinct chaos flavor to distinguish it more from the Deathguard, Thousand sons, and the inevitable World Eaters and Emperor's Children. However the CSM that do less to embrace chaos are prominent enough they deserve to eventually be represented more too. Maybe that's whenever Traitor Guard happen? -Or maybe its enough to say they should use more from FW models, but either way there should be more acknowledgement.
aka_mythos wrote: The only thing that looks funny to me is the pintle weapon... I think I want to put it on his mechadendrite rig.
Exactly my thought. Love everything but the weapon mount.
Actually, I have to agree here that weapon mount is weird.
100% fine with it myself, I figure it's riding the hump of the mount and not necessarily being engaged right now, plus adds to the "I'mma socket this horrific weapon on right here because I'm a daemon engineer lulz" / "symmetry is for lapdogs" flavor.
My issue is for a Dark Mechanicum -ish guy... a conventionally mounted and fired pintle weapon, even one being fired by his mechdendrite pulling the trigger just seems weird. The location is kinda weird and there are easily a good number of alternatives that would work better. They could mount it to the mechandrite harness directly, or mount it as to the spider things head, or have it fired from a tail like the Brass Scorpion. My guess is that someone really wanted to make clear the Lord riding it was firing that gun, presumably to justify whatever superior BS it has over other Daemon Engines.
But it looks like it already has a weapon in its tail, and some sort of weapon is clearly in its mouth. It 'needed' an extra weapon and something else for the Rider to be doing i guess.
aka_mythos wrote: The only thing that looks funny to me is the pintle weapon... I think I want to put it on his mechadendrite rig.
Exactly my thought. Love everything but the weapon mount.
Actually, I have to agree here that weapon mount is weird.
100% fine with it myself, I figure it's riding the hump of the mount and not necessarily being engaged right now, plus adds to the "I'mma socket this horrific weapon on right here because I'm a daemon engineer lulz" / "symmetry is for lapdogs" flavor.
My issue is for a Dark Mechanicum -ish guy... a conventionally mounted and fired pintle weapon, even one being fired by his mechdendrite pulling the trigger just seems weird. The location is kinda weird and there are easily a good number of alternatives that would work better. They could mount it to the mechandrite harness directly, or mount it as to the spider things head, or have it fired from a tail like the Brass Scorpion. My guess is that someone really wanted to make clear the Lord riding it was firing that gun, presumably to justify whatever superior BS it has over other Daemon Engines.
It's a daemon engine in plastic, seems ripe for conversions to put the gun wherever you like.
aka_mythos wrote: The only thing that looks funny to me is the pintle weapon... I think I want to put it on his mechadendrite rig.
Exactly my thought. Love everything but the weapon mount.
Actually, I have to agree here that weapon mount is weird.
100% fine with it myself, I figure it's riding the hump of the mount and not necessarily being engaged right now, plus adds to the "I'mma socket this horrific weapon on right here because I'm a daemon engineer lulz" / "symmetry is for lapdogs" flavor.
My issue is for a Dark Mechanicum -ish guy... a conventionally mounted and fired pintle weapon, even one being fired by his mechdendrite pulling the trigger just seems weird. The location is kinda weird and there are easily a good number of alternatives that would work better. They could mount it to the mechandrite harness directly, or mount it as to the spider things head, or have it fired from a tail like the Brass Scorpion. My guess is that someone really wanted to make clear the Lord riding it was firing that gun, presumably to justify whatever superior BS it has over other Daemon Engines.
But it looks like it already has a weapon in its tail, and some sort of weapon is clearly in its mouth. It 'needed' an extra weapon and something else for the Rider to be doing i guess.
aka_mythos wrote: The only thing that looks funny to me is the pintle weapon... I think I want to put it on his mechadendrite rig.
Exactly my thought. Love everything but the weapon mount.
Actually, I have to agree here that weapon mount is weird.
100% fine with it myself, I figure it's riding the hump of the mount and not necessarily being engaged right now, plus adds to the "I'mma socket this horrific weapon on right here because I'm a daemon engineer lulz" / "symmetry is for lapdogs" flavor.
My issue is for a Dark Mechanicum -ish guy... a conventionally mounted and fired pintle weapon, even one being fired by his mechdendrite pulling the trigger just seems weird. The location is kinda weird and there are easily a good number of alternatives that would work better. They could mount it to the mechandrite harness directly, or mount it as to the spider things head, or have it fired from a tail like the Brass Scorpion. My guess is that someone really wanted to make clear the Lord riding it was firing that gun, presumably to justify whatever superior BS it has over other Daemon Engines.
It's a daemon engine in plastic, seems ripe for conversions to put the gun wherever you like.
Definitely. Its a good model, just minor composition changes
But it looks like it already has a weapon in its tail, and some sort of weapon is clearly in its mouth. It 'needed' an extra weapon and something else for the Rider to be doing i guess.
Its tail is a long pointed thing going out the back... I'm not saying anyone place to mount it is best, I just think from a composition stand point it aesthetically looks off being where it is, mounted the way it is.
The pictured rules says it has an Autocannon and a Baleflamer... the Baleflamer is probably what's in its mouth... that makes the shown option to mount a baleflamer on its back an interesting option too... Although mounting double baleflamers kind makes what's likely a better BS for the rider moot.
GW's design team is going for a "heavily" corrupted look for Chaos now. So, I don't have a problem with the new Daemon Engines, their much better designed that the older ones. The riders mostly fine but that mask needs to be modded or the head replaced. Snaggle-toothed is not a good look.
Chopxsticks wrote: Not knowing much about 40k and looking to get into it from this release, whats the importance of 10+ wounds?
Some people take this to mean the end of the world, Oh "Woe is me" but as a person who plays Tyranids, it's not a problem so long as the model has access to an invulnerable save, which this model will. Fun fact, Mark of Slaneesh this guy for a further FNP roll. He'll be fine.
I guess just everyone on this forum likes to which and moan about everything, all the time. This awesome new model is no different, I guess. Lots of doom and gloom before we've even seen its full rules, points and had a chance to play it on the table. Smh.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just realised that both pieces of artwork for this new guy match the mini pretty much exactly. Same pose, position of arms/tendrils/weapons.
*sigh*
You mean almost like the artist had used a picture of the model as a reference?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just realised that both pieces of artwork for this new guy match the mini pretty much exactly. Same pose, position of arms/tendrils/weapons.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just realised that both pieces of artwork for this new guy match the mini pretty much exactly. Same pose, position of arms/tendrils/weapons.
*sigh*
What does this mean?
Probably being annoyed with GW for their obsession to depict models as deliberately as possible, leaving no free space to the artists to interpret what they want to paint/draw. Just compare the artwork from 2000s and early 2010s to the current one and you'll see. This has been voiced many times, both on dakka and the rest of the internet.
Edit: Let's not go down the "John Blanche" route for the argument, there have been many quality artists that painted masterpieces for GW while still having freedom of modifying the entities the art is supposed to represent (Adrian Smith, Paul Dainton and Karl Kopinski come to mind, to name just a few). It was grimdark, it was original, and it was good. The latest art has improved a lot since the early AoS crap and 40k books like the Warzone: Fenris books, but it still has the models simply ported identically to the artwork.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just realised that both pieces of artwork for this new guy match the mini pretty much exactly. Same pose, position of arms/tendrils/weapons.
*sigh*
What does this mean?
Probably being annoyed with GW for their obsession to depict models as deliberately as possible, leaving no free space to the artists to interpret what they want to paint/draw. Just compare the artwork from 2000s and early 2010s to the current one and you'll see. This has been voiced many times, both on dakka and the rest of the internet.
Edit: Let's not go down the "John Blanche" route for the argument, there have been many quality artists that painted masterpieces for GW while still having freedom of modifying the entities the art is supposed to represent (Adrian Smith, Paul Dainton and Karl Kopinski come to mind, to name just a few). It was grimdark, it was original, and it was good. The latest art has improved a lot since the early AoS crap and 40k books like the Warzone: Fenris books, but it still has the models simply ported identically to the artwork.
I would say this is the post 9/11 (Chapterhouse) world fans of this game will have to live in. I hate the TSA, but there ain't a thing one I can do about it.
I guess just everyone on this forum likes to which and moan about everything, all the time. This awesome new model is no different, I guess. Lots of doom and gloom before we've even seen its full rules, points and had a chance to play it on the table. Smh.
Yes, 'everyone' likes to moan... aside from the multiple pages of people in this very thread saying how much they like this model.
A couple of people voicing concerns about potential rules does not 'everyone moaning' make.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just realised that both pieces of artwork for this new guy match the mini pretty much exactly. Same pose, position of arms/tendrils/weapons.
*sigh*
What does this mean?
It's a reference to GW's current policy of matching up artwork, models and rules to cut down on the potential for other companies to make models fitting into GW's games. The side effect is that the artwork winds up being considerably less interesting when it only depicts stuff that exactly matches the current model range...
As long as there's an alternate head for the rider, the mini is pretty much perfect.
Do we think it's another Baleflamer in its mouth (or one of the mouth options, I should say). It has the igniter, but it's not 100% clear to me if it's a Baleflamer or another type of disgusting spray weapon.
generalgrog wrote: This model + Abaddon confirms I made the right choice in buying shadowspear. Black legion is going to look so good on the table!
Gg
[Looks at my own Black Legion army.] "What do you mean 'going to look' good on the table?
Nah, just kidding. I am certainly glad a some models are getting updates along with new stuff. I like this new demon engine but probably won't pick one up anytime soon. Games Workshop has been introducing too many things I want in the last few weeks for me (Abaddon and Terminators in Kill Team mostly). I haven't completely finished painting the demon engines I do have let alone a sizeable backlog of terrain and Kill Team factions. And the ebay app coupon made Shadowspear just cheap enough for me to pick it up.
I guess just everyone on this forum likes to which and moan about everything, all the time. This awesome new model is no different, I guess. Lots of doom and gloom before we've even seen its full rules, points and had a chance to play it on the table. Smh.
Yes, 'everyone' likes to moan... aside from the multiple pages of people in this very thread saying how much they like this model.
A couple of people voicing concerns about potential rules does not 'everyone moaning' make.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just realised that both pieces of artwork for this new guy match the mini pretty much exactly. Same pose, position of arms/tendrils/weapons.
*sigh*
What does this mean?
It's a reference to GW's current policy of matching up artwork, models and rules to cut down on the potential for other companies to make models fitting into GW's games. The side effect is that the artwork winds up being considerably less interesting when it only depicts stuff that exactly matches the current model range...
There has been a LOT of upsetness lately though it seems. You cannot deny that. People have been making snap judgements about these models and fear mongering since the deamon engine started dropping previews a month ago.
With that said, however I will let it be so as not to Hijack the thread.
On the topic of the art and models, as I said, that is just the reality after the Chapterhouse debacle. I don't think it will change that much, but I fail to see how any of this stops people from converting models. I'm still seeing a lot of the new stuff from the last year or two pop up with some incredible conversions on different modeling groups.
The art depicts the models because the art is made to sell the models. Everything a business does ultimately is about making money. As we get into this modern age, it gets harder and harder for a company to create erroneous artwork that has less purpose.
Yeah blame Chapterhouse, yeah blame whatever you want.
It's SUCH a small issue, and it makes people that are creative kitbashers/modelers all the more special when they come up with something great using their own skills and imagination.
You, too, can alter this beast in any way you like, given enough time and gumption. I bet we'll see people swapping the head of the beast out for more Khorne or Tzeentch looking beasts right away, or swapping the rider out with one from the range of Slaves to Darkness models to make it look more unique to their own range. Heck, take the main body of the creature, take off the arms, stick it on an Onager walker base, and have it look like a Ravager from World of Warcraft.
It doesn't stop people from converting, it's just disappointing that the artwork has become so much more generic. The bonkers art was always a big part of the appeal of 40K, and so much conversion inspiration over the years has come from that art. When the art just mimics the models, even down to the posing, that source of inspiration goes away.
GW hires some amazing artists, and it's a shame to not let them cut loose...
Still, GW are undeniably hitting it out of the park with the model releases. Looking forward to seeing what else they have up their sleeves for Chaos.
You, too, can alter this beast in any way you like, given enough time and gumption. I bet we'll see people swapping the head of the beast out for more Khorne or Tzeentch looking beasts right away, or swapping the rider out with one from the range of Slaves to Darkness models to make it look more unique to their own range. Heck, take the main body of the creature, take off the arms, stick it on an Onager walker base, and have it look like a Ravager from World of Warcraft.
Swapping out the legs for Heldrake wings would be pretty cool... Mecha-Ringwraith!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do we think it's another Baleflamer in its mouth (or one of the mouth options, I should say). It has the igniter, but it's not 100% clear to me if it's a Baleflamer or another type of disgusting spray weapon.
My interpretation is that the listings for the Baleflamer and Autocannon are just the mounted weapon options for the Lord Discordant, and not the wargear of the Helstalker itself
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do we think it's another Baleflamer in its mouth (or one of the mouth options, I should say). It has the igniter, but it's not 100% clear to me if it's a Baleflamer or another type of disgusting spray weapon.
Looks like a magma cutter (same as on the Maulerfiend).
Occasionally the GW fluff runs up against the reality of what would happen to unarmoured civilians trying to take on highly trained troops equipped with power armour and automatic cannons. There’d obviously be no way to travel down a corridor guarded by someone with a flamethrower, plus a bunch of other people with assault rifles. There’s no way to send the bodies up the corridor faster than the enemy can send bullets down it. This story actually reflects that quite well I think.
It’s unfortunate that hordes of these models actually do quite well in the game, because in the real world the tactics you see infantry using in 40k went out of fashion around 1914. But then I suppose it’s not meant as a simulation!
Some wandering SoB and a Lone Space Wolf cruely abuse innocent people just defending their homes
Oh goodie, another Magus dies to being stupid.
Why the hell are all the Magi on Vigilus chronically stupid and show themselves to the hulking power armored super warriors in these stories?
Bloody hell.
In the first place, if sisters of battle got charged in the close confines of a tunnel by genestealers, what are the odds they even survive? Just one or two genestealers making it into would have made short work of them...
Some wandering SoB and a Lone Space Wolf cruely abuse innocent people just defending their homes
Oh goodie, another Magus dies to being stupid.
Why the hell are all the Magi on Vigilus chronically stupid and show themselves to the hulking power armored super warriors in these stories?
Bloody hell.
In the first place, if sisters of battle got charged in the close confines of a tunnel by genestealers, what are the odds they even survive? Just one or two genestealers making it into would have made short work of them...
Being serious, it depends on how well the Sisters work together to overwhelm the genestealer. Genestealers are horrifically dangerous and the Sisters are near guaranteed to take casualties, but power armour still provides decent protection against genestealer claws and the usual tactics of attacking an outnumbered foe with as many attackers as possible still has merit. So long as the Sisters don't patiently wait to attack the genestealer one at a time like Hollywood mooks and keep their composure, they should be able to overwhelm a single genestealer Of course, during this they are no longer shooting down the corridor... I reckon there is a high chance they still get slaughtered by one too, bit of a lottery.
Terminator armor barely provides protection, so I don't think you can argue power armor is good enough, especially for just even one or two Stealers to overwhelm them in a tunnel.
How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)
Galas wrote: How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)
In previous editions, that is why Genestealers' melee attacks had rending, so they could chew through marines and even light vehicles. They basically have the same rule now (where 6 to wound is AP -4, which chews through Terminators and Marines like butter).
They usually don't though? Look at the Blood Angels Space Hulk Terminators- you can see deep scratches and gouges on many of the models, but it is clear that Terminator armour provides protection and slows down rending claws. Occasionally it punches straight through, but not often.
Power armour will do the same, just less effectively. But we are talking in a melee, the armour only has to slow the genestealer down long enough for three other Sisters to stick bayonets in it- thats less than a second.
Also, Genestealer claws haven't ignored armour outright for at least 5 editions- they are clearly meant to be sharp but not all-penetrating like power power weapons. Rules don't correlate great with fluff, but Genestealers have never been given the ability to ignore power armour routinely, only with lucky blows. A lot of fluff is blatant hyperbole, especially Codex fluff.
Galas wrote: How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)
It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.
Galas wrote: How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)
The setting and game are not really related beyond proper nouns. Fluff !=Rules. What works in a story doesn't in a game, and vice versa.
The nuns also have a fetish for flame based weapons, something that genestealers really dislike with a passion.
These are some of the best weapons for tunnel warfare aswell.
Galas wrote: How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)
It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.
The rules they can do it but not always.
Sisters also have divine protection
Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?
Galas wrote: How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)
It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.
The rules they can do it but not always.
Sisters also have divine protection
Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?
Galas wrote: How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)
It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.
The rules they can do it but not always.
Sisters also have divine protection
Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?
Deathstorm by Josh Reynolds for one
You mean the one where they start with six Terminators and then are down two by the end of like the fifth chapter?
It's interesting... I think the model for Abby looks incredible but the artwork on this page is mediocre whereas with Primarneus Calgar the painting looks great but the new model is meh.
Galas wrote: How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)
It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.
The rules they can do it but not always.
Sisters also have divine protection
Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?
Deathwing, for one.
Its... kinda the origin of the whole thing. The squad takes on the entire cult (and lots of stealers) in the new industrial city to save the Amer-Indian tribes that inhabit the Dark Angel's recruitment world.
The Deathwing has bone armour to honor that handful of terminators.
It's interesting... I think the model for Abby looks incredible but the artwork on this page is mediocre whereas with Primarneus Calgar the painting looks great but the new model is meh.
Spoiler:
It's because the one of Abbadon is a small part of a large battle scene, so there's a lot less detail and focus on him. Whereas Calgar is the full focus of the other piece.
It's interesting... I think the model for Abby looks incredible but the artwork on this page is mediocre whereas with Primarneus Calgar the painting looks great but the new model is meh.
Spoiler:
It's because the one of Abbadon is a small part of a large battle scene, so there's a lot less detail and focus on him. Whereas Calgar is the full focus of the other piece.
I don't think that's it. I think it has more to do with the styles of both the art and the figs. In both cases, I prefer the more realistic/less cartoony version (in abby's case the model and for primarneus the pic)
Galas wrote: How does Power Armor protect agaisnt genestealer claws when they cut Terminator Armour as butter? (I know everything cuts terminator armour as butter because thats the benchmark used to tell how MEGA POWERFULL a weapon is, but still)
It does in the fuff - except where it doesn't - constrast stories where terminators defeat hundreds of Genestealers in close quarters to the ones where they are slaughtered.
The rules they can do it but not always.
Sisters also have divine protection
Sorry but which stories have Terminators defeating that many Genestealers in close combat?
Deathstorm by Josh Reynolds for one
You mean the one where they start with six Terminators and then are down two by the end of like the fifth chapter?
I think its that one - several stand back to back killing whole swarms of Stealers by about the middle?
It's interesting... I think the model for Abby looks incredible but the artwork on this page is mediocre whereas with Primarneus Calgar the painting looks great but the new model is meh.
Spoiler:
It's because the one of Abbadon is a small part of a large battle scene, so there's a lot less detail and focus on him. Whereas Calgar is the full focus of the other piece.
I don't think that's it. I think it has more to do with the styles of both the art and the figs. In both cases, I prefer the more realistic/less cartoony version (in abby's case the model and for primarneus the pic)
I'd say it's because the Abby art work looks to replicate his model.
Calgars one is purely artwork
DanielFM wrote: We don't want boring, uninspired, redundant Vanguard units. We want something with a "wow!" factor. Something that plucks the gaps in the severely limited Primaris range in options and rules.
CSM players ask for Dark Mechanicus for years and get it. Loyalist get models no-one asked for, instead.
Woh, people playing a faction that has literally everything, and that is getting a second, slightly bigger scale version of everything, get models that no-one asked for. Maybe it's because no-one ask for anything, because they already have everything, and they should just stop getting models, just a thought.
Some wandering SoB and a Lone Space Wolf cruely abuse innocent people just defending their homes
Incredible, the Sisters are almost portrayed as more competent than the Wolf! Unexpected and very nice.
Am I the only one who thinks Guilliman-lite Calgar is very unnecessary now that we have regular Guilliman and that they could easily kill him off this campaign? Though in that case, why create a new model?
WhiteDog wrote: Calgar is not unecessary now : he is killable.
But they just gave him a new model, so his plot armor is refreshed.
His period of imminent mortality has passed. Even the Dark Imperium novel suggested he had outlived his time and purpose, and the re-appearance of Guilliman diminished him and reminded him that he wasn't adequately keeping up with his duties any longer..
But now that he's gotten a phoenix-like rejuvenation, that's all been swept aside. He can now go falcon punch multiple Avatars.
nagash42 wrote: Warlord Queek got a new model as did a few skaven characters and he got his head caved in.
At the literal end of the world. Rocks fell, everybody died. Eons later some came back as gods or randomly alive (Gotrek, sigh) in a completely different setting. Queek dying is like applying white-out to a word in a book about to be tossed on a bonfire.
----
The time to do that in 40K would have been when they ripped the galaxy in half, or during the century+ of crusading or, I'll say again, when he was made redundant to the narrative by God-Boss showing up.
Not *after* supercharging him and placing him as central to the Imperium side of the current story-line.
There could have been a lot of drama or gravitas to his death in front of his gene-father OR his successor (or what symbolism his death would have meant to the chapter or the Imperium as a whole), there is a lot less post-power up and renewal of purpose.
It reminds me a lot of Stargate. Early on there was a lot of meaning in killing a goa'uld. Then they started mass-cloning super-goa'ulds in literal plot armor, and it meant a lot less. Same principle applies here- he's now just an even more bigger primaris. He's in charge, but killing him doesn't matter- there's fifty-eleven just like him waiting to stand up.
nagash42 wrote: Warlord Queek got a new model as did a few skaven characters and he got his head caved in.
At the literal end of the world. Rocks fell, everybody died. Eons later some came back as gods or randomly alive (Gotrek, sigh) in a completely different setting. Queek dying is like applying white-out to a word in a book about to be tossed on a bonfire.
.
To be fair, Gotrek coming back makes a lot more sense than most of the survivors in AoS. He was left in the Realm of Chaos. Tyrion and Teclis both died, but they somehow became Gods. Balthasar Gelt is now a stormcast. Not to mention the Mortarchs and vampires who also have pretty conclusive deaths.
Back on topic, what are the chances that they'll just go after someone like Cato or any other Ultramarine with an old model? All the suspense of killing a named character, getting rid of an old model, and people that bought Marneus probably won't throw a fit about having their new HQ died.
Started to build my Shadowspear goods. One thing that people might want to know is that the CSM are about the same size as the DV set CSM. They might be 0.5mm bigger. But definitely smaller than the plague marines.
My eyeballed measurements might be off but it looks like the DVCSM will indistinguishable and the special DV Exalted Champion model is definitely the same size as the new guys.
Edit: they also appear to be noticeably bigger than the most recent tactical marines. Probably about the size of the Deathwatch marines.
BrotherGecko wrote: Started to build my Shadowspear goods. One thing that people might want to know is that the CSM are about the same size as the DV set CSM. They might be 0.5mm bigger. But definitely smaller than the plague marines.
My eyeballed measurements might be off but it looks like the DVCSM will indistinguishable and the special DV Exalted Champion model is definitely the same size as the new guys.
Edit: they also appear to be noticeably bigger than the most recent tactical marines. Probably about the size of the Deathwatch marines.
how do they compare tothe MK3 and MK4 armor models?
BrotherGecko wrote: Started to build my Shadowspear goods. One thing that people might want to know is that the CSM are about the same size as the DV set CSM. They might be 0.5mm bigger. But definitely smaller than the plague marines.
My eyeballed measurements might be off but it looks like the DVCSM will indistinguishable and the special DV Exalted Champion model is definitely the same size as the new guys.
Edit: they also appear to be noticeably bigger than the most recent tactical marines. Probably about the size of the Deathwatch marines.
how do they compare tothe MK3 and MK4 armor models?
Spending a bit more time looking at them. I'd say they are close to a head taller than the HH mk3-4 armors with the mk3 keeping close in bulk. But it is hard for me to fully tell because my mk3-4s are on cork enhanced bases so they are a big taller.
The DVCSM actually compare mostly by how upright they stand. The DVCSM lord is about the same size.
One thing though is that the proportions are much better and smoother looking. So the thighs look better and the forearms look less squat.
BrotherGecko wrote: Started to build my Shadowspear goods. One thing that people might want to know is that the CSM are about the same size as the DV set CSM. They might be 0.5mm bigger. But definitely smaller than the plague marines.
My eyeballed measurements might be off but it looks like the DVCSM will indistinguishable and the special DV Exalted Champion model is definitely the same size as the new guys.
Edit: they also appear to be noticeably bigger than the most recent tactical marines. Probably about the size of the Deathwatch marines.
how do they compare tothe MK3 and MK4 armor models?
Spending a bit more time looking at them. I'd say they are close to a head taller than the HH mk3-4 armors with the mk3 keeping close in bulk. But it is hard for me to fully tell because my mk3-4s are on cork enhanced bases so they are a big taller.
The DVCSM actually compare mostly by how upright they stand. The DVCSM lord is about the same size.
One thing though is that the proportions are much better and smoother looking. So the thighs look better and the forearms look less squat.
yeah just trying to figure out if I should risk snagging some MK3 and 4 Kits for my infantry or wait for the new CSM ones. sounds like I'll wanna wait
Mr Morden wrote: Good story - with beta play test complete if only we could get some faction rules for Sisters on Vigilis, and Kill Team..... and....
Given that it’s the second story in a row with Sisters, I did wonder if GW are going to pull a fast one and drop a new kit early. Assuming that the basic kit will be pretty much the same as the metal models, it’s probably the easiest to get out and wouldn’t require new rules. Would be a great way to further build the hype and get a lot of players on the thin end of the wedge (after all, it’s only one box of models for Kill Team, isn’t it?! )
The whole Calgar vs Abaddon thing is blatantly going to end with a pyrrhic victory for the Ultramarines.
Calgar grievously wounded (but walks it off due to genehanced biology) Abaddon driven off in moment of victory by amazing Ultras tactical feint. "I'll get you next time Calgar!!!, I'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky Ultramarines!!!"
It's obvious that we're getting new CSM models, but just a note if it hasn't been noticed that CSM aren't even on GW anymore, literally can't even buy the old models.
As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...
If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSFCSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.
So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!
Binabik15 wrote: If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSFCSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.
So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!
Why do they need to be larger?
We ain't primaris.
Also the size of the dog does not matter.
Binabik15 wrote: If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSFCSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.
So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!
Why do they need to be larger?
We ain't primaris.
Also the size of the dog does not matter.
Because I like the Primaris proportions better. DV stuff and DG still have too short legs for their torsos.
But if they were primaris sized you would need to come up with some explanation why every chaos marine(including recently turned) has suddenly become head taller.
Binabik15 wrote: If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSFCSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.
So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!
Why do they need to be larger?
We ain't primaris.
Also the size of the dog does not matter.
Because I like the Primaris proportions better. DV stuff and DG still have too short legs for their torsos.
Shouldn't have turned from the Emperor's light then.
tneva82 wrote: But if they were primaris sized you would need to come up with some explanation why every chaos marine(including recently turned) has suddenly become head taller.
>Fabious Bile would like to introduce himself.
> He also offers you a size upgrade if you give him your left kidney.
zedmeister wrote: As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...
Well there is something about World Eaters vs Space Wolves in the GAMA line up for today.....
tneva82 wrote: But if they were primaris sized you would need to come up with some explanation why every chaos marine(including recently turned) has suddenly become head taller.
No one needed it the first couple times it happened.
No one needed it when several fantasy races shrank.
zedmeister wrote: As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...
Well there is something about World Eaters vs Space Wolves in the GAMA line up for today.....
There was a rumour that the third book is the imperial fight back led by a returning loyalist primarch, I'm thinking Russ. Chaos could win on Vigilus and sever the imperium in half, but maybe mitigated by the second loyalist primarch leading the separated side..
Personally I just want new eldar.. I'm not holding my breath...
So these new CSM are what I finally needed to see to start on my long-planned Black Legion army. Huzzah! I've lived what I've seen so far and it looks like you may finally be able to build an interesting CSM army.
Speaking of, if you fine folks were going to use the FW Berzerker upgrade kits, what legs and arms would you use to make those? On the same subject, what would look cooler: primarily old legion colors with a black and gold arm/ pauldron, black and gold with old legion arm or just pure black and gold?
Binabik15 wrote: If I pour all my willpower into it, will it make CSM grow a little bit more? DV stuff is not tall enough. The legs are still stubby on them. I thought the BSFCSM were as tall as Plague Marines, so still few mm too short, but taller than DV stuff.
So I'll still have to plasticard them or use Primaris legs. But my Word Bearers army Mk2 WILL rise!
Why do they need to be larger?
We ain't primaris.
Also the size of the dog does not matter.
Because I like the Primaris proportions better. DV stuff and DG still have too short legs for their torsos.
I think it forms a great narrative. You want worthy foes to fight. Abaddon is as big a baddy as it gets. He has assembled a massive fleet led by his flagship Spirit of Vengence. And he appears to already have plans set in motion even before he made planet fall.
It will be a glorious, desperate defense that Calgar will have to manage. And my money is that Calgar will be defeated. But this is why this next book is called Vigilus ablaze. The black legion led by Abaddon is here and they are going to see Vigilus burn!
But fret not, because I am pretty sure there will be a third book which will see a big comeback in the form of aid from maybe a returned loyalist primarch and his legion revitalised. (not necessarily Gulliman). Dorn? The Lion, Russ ? Well, the loyalist will get the chance to strike back in the third book.
For now though, let Abaddon and the Chaos legions have their fun! Hehehe... (sorry, I have always been CSM, so I am have been a heretic astartes all my life...) It is a glorious time to be on the dark side right now ... Death to false emperor !!!!!
The stubby look of the older space marines is definitely improved with the Primaris. Even more recent "old" marines have been changed. Look at the Space Marine Heroes from Japan. They're not primaris sized, but their limbs have been extended. They're a noticeable improvement over the current tactical squad.
zedmeister wrote: As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...
Well there is something about World Eaters vs Space Wolves in the GAMA line up for today.....
There was a rumour that the third book is the imperial fight back led by a returning loyalist primarch, I'm thinking Russ. Chaos could win on Vigilus and sever the imperium in half, but maybe mitigated by the second loyalist primarch leading the separated side..
Personally I just want new eldar.. I'm not holding my breath...
Pretty sure Vigilus is only 2 books, there is no third.
tneva82 wrote: But if they were primaris sized you would need to come up with some explanation why every chaos marine(including recently turned) has suddenly become head taller.
>Fabious Bile would like to introduce himself.
> He also offers you a size upgrade if you give him your left kidney.
I don’t think you need to give Fabious anything of the sort, just sign the medical waiver and lay down on the table. More than likely you actually walk out with a couple more kidneys than you came in with, along with an assortment of other new organs and parts.
So far, they are portraying him as anything but just merely angry. He seems to be able to construct and implement deep long ranging plans and has the patience to see them through. That implies anything but blind rage.
Eldenfirefly wrote: So far, they are portraying him as anything but just merely angry. He seems to be able to construct and implement deep long ranging plans and has the patience to see them through. That implies anything but blind rage.
Well, I am not really equating "angry" with "blind rage." Obviously they do present him as someone that plans things, but his character still comes across to me as a mostly hackneyed.
That's just completely subjective. I'm not trying to pretend that I am presenting objective facts, rather, this is my subjective valuation of what I see presented. I'd personally love to see a more "nuanced" Abaddon, but I realize that isn't his "role" in GW fiction. That isn't to say he shouldn't be "angry" or be filled with hatred, but rather, I'd rather see presented in a way that seems more dimensional.
But hey, could just be my flawed reading. I've become too accustomed to reading things that are just written with my "literary quality" in mind. I just can't help but feel that this fiction does not cut it, for me.
Eldenfirefly wrote: So far, they are portraying him as anything but just merely angry. He seems to be able to construct and implement deep long ranging plans and has the patience to see them through. That implies anything but blind rage.
Well, I am not really equating "angry" with "blind rage." Obviously they do present him as someone that plans things, but his character still comes across to me as a mostly hackneyed.
That's just completely subjective. I'm not trying to pretend that I am presenting objective facts, rather, this is my subjective valuation of what I see presented. I'd personally love to see a more "nuanced" Abaddon, but I realize that isn't his "role" in GW fiction. That isn't to say he shouldn't be "angry" or be filled with hatred, but rather, I'd rather see presented in a way that seems more dimensional.
But hey, could just be my flawed reading. I've become too accustomed to reading things that are just written with my "literary quality" in mind. I just can't help but feel that this fiction does not cut it, for me.
They do this in ADB's Black Legion novels. Talon of Horus and Black Legion.
Abaddon is going to kill Dante, who’s going to turn into an angelic manifestation of Sanguinius which will be his new model.
It’ll be the same talon that took his life that’ll bring him back into the world.
zedmeister wrote: As an outside theory, Vigilus could end with the return of another Primarch. Chaos or Loyalist, I don't know, but I could see Abaddon getting the upper hand only to have Vulkan or the Khan sweep in at the head of a massive host. Or, Abaddon getting crushed only for Angron to turn up...
Well there is something about World Eaters vs Space Wolves in the GAMA line up for today.....
There was a rumour that the third book is the imperial fight back led by a returning loyalist primarch, I'm thinking Russ. Chaos could win on Vigilus and sever the imperium in half, but maybe mitigated by the second loyalist primarch leading the separated side..
Personally I just want new eldar.. I'm not holding my breath...
Pretty sure Vigilus is only 2 books, there is no third.
It was months ago on War of Sigmar- Hastings and someone else where discussing it- one of them mentioned they weren't sure if it was 2 or 3 books but they seem to agree on the broad story arc and of a returning loyalist Primarch [no name but Russ was mentioned by Hastings ages ago when listing the returning ones after Magnus reappeared ]. I have no dog on the fight- I'm an eldar/Nid player but I like watching the story evolve.
My bet, the Imperium loses Vigilus. Commander Dante is Rubicon'd into a Primaris Marine (in Phobos Armor because it is speaker). He becomes regent of Imperium Nihilus. The Imperium fights to retake Vigilus next year with Dante at the Nihilus army's head.
Plot twist: Vigilus 2 is just a recap of what happens during the last 80 days. It ends with Abaddon making planet fall, and the book fades to black. The story is left on a cliff hanger, in old GW fashion, and neither side has to lose.
They actually went out of their way to bomb the entire WHFB world and establish a new continuity.
Also if 5 or even 10 years ago anyone would have suggested that that the primarchs would return as playable units, that person would have been laughted at.
GW is very well able to move the story if they want.
GaroRobe wrote: Plot twist: Vigilus 2 is just a recap of what happens during the last 80 days. It ends with Abaddon making planet fall, and the book fades to black. The story is left on a cliff hanger, in old GW fashion, and neither side has to lose.
I think Chaos needs to win on some level, that way GW can do more interesting things with the Imperium Obscurus as it is completely cut off from the Galactic east. The Imperium can always take Vigilus back in a future story.
Stormonu wrote: There will be 3 books (the third will be Vigilus Reborn). Dorn will be the returned Primarch.
This is just a guess, but I’m putting my money on it.
No offense to Dorn, but I hope if another Imperial Primarch returns it will be one of the more interesting ones. Jonson, Russ, Khan etc. We already have generic stoic dude with Guilliman.
Stormonu wrote: There will be 3 books (the third will be Vigilus Reborn). Dorn will be the returned Primarch.
This is just a guess, but I’m putting my money on it.
No offense to Dorn, but I hope if another Imperial Primarch returns it will be one of the more interesting ones. Jonson, Russ, Khan etc. We already have generic stoic dude with Guilliman.
Guilliman is positive, balanced stoic. Dorn is excessively righteous, self-penance addicted, never walk a step back. He could return with a Black Templar fanatic twist
He would be as generic as GW wanted.
Johnson? Hooded plasma guy.
Khan? Giant bike guy.
Russ? Berserk Viking guy. With dogs.
If they don't aim for exaggerating them, they would be no more innovative than Dorn.
It's interesting... I think the model for Abby looks incredible but the artwork on this page is mediocre whereas with Primarneus Calgar the painting looks great but the new model is meh.
Spoiler:
Its because Calgar was done by the great Paul Dantion (I assume by style) and Abby was not.
Kanluwen wrote: Personally, I've been going with Corax as the next potential Loyalist Primarch to return.
Guilliman's rebuilding the mechanisms of the Imperium...Corax? Corax would potentially be the one leading a new phase of war.
Corax's proclivity for guerrilla warfare makes him ripe for leading some sort of resistance in an isolated pocket of the Imperium... Guilliman 'discovering' Corax after one of them reconnects that area with the rest of the Imperium.
casvalremdeikun wrote: My bet, the Imperium loses Vigilus. Commander Dante is Rubicon'd into a Primaris Marine (in Phobos Armor because it is speaker). He becomes regent of Imperium Nihilus. The Imperium fights to retake Vigilus next year with Dante at the Nihilus army's head.
Dante is over 1,500 years. In the recently released novel, he is showing signs of age and wear. I don't think he'd take the risk of the the difficult and dangerous process to become a Primaris. My guess he is sacrificing himself somewhere along the unfolding story, then somehow merges with The Sanguinor, who in the novel often shows himself to Dante, to be reborn as the essence of Sanguinus (and as a spectacular model, imagine a flying/floating Sanguinor with the level of detail and size of Guilliman).
Kanluwen wrote: Personally, I've been going with Corax as the next potential Loyalist Primarch to return.
Guilliman's rebuilding the mechanisms of the Imperium...Corax? Corax would potentially be the one leading a new phase of war.
Corax's proclivity for guerrilla warfare makes him ripe for leading some sort of resistance in an isolated pocket of the Imperium... Guilliman 'discovering' Corax after one of them reconnects that area with the rest of the Imperium.
Corax could also be a natural foil to Cawl, given that Corax is also a brilliant scientist.
Anyone notice the Mauler and Forgefiends are no longer available on the GW website? I wonder if the spider is replacing both of them or if they have more engines coming.
casvalremdeikun wrote: My bet, the Imperium loses Vigilus. Commander Dante is Rubicon'd into a Primaris Marine (in Phobos Armor because it is speaker). He becomes regent of Imperium Nihilus. The Imperium fights to retake Vigilus next year with Dante at the Nihilus army's head.
Dante is over 1,500 years. In the recently released novel, he is showing signs of age and wear. I don't think he'd take the risk of the the difficult and dangerous process to become a Primaris. My guess he is sacrificing himself somewhere along the unfolding story, then somehow merges with The Sanguinor, who in the novel often shows himself to Dante, to be reborn as the essence of Sanguinus (and as a spectacular model, imagine a flying/floating Sanguinor with the level of detail and size of Guilliman).
I still think they will essentially use the Sanguinor to reignite life in Sanguinius' corpse.
Stormonu wrote: There will be 3 books (the third will be Vigilus Reborn). Dorn will be the returned Primarch.
This is just a guess, but I’m putting my money on it.
No offense to Dorn, but I hope if another Imperial Primarch returns it will be one of the more interesting ones. Jonson, Russ, Khan etc. We already have generic stoic dude with Guilliman.
Guilliman is positive, balanced stoic. Dorn is excessively righteous, self-penance addicted, never walk a step back. He could return with a Black Templar fanatic twist
He would be as generic as GW wanted.
Johnson? Hooded plasma guy.
Khan? Giant bike guy.
Russ? Berserk Viking guy. With dogs.
If they don't aim for exaggerating them, they would be no more innovative than Dorn.
If Dorn did come back, I think he would have to be more righteous and militant than Guilliman, to help differentiate the two characters. Dorn leading the charge with a horde of fanatical Black Templar marines sounds perfect.
DrGiggles wrote: Anyone notice the Mauler and Forgefiends are no longer available on the GW website? I wonder if the spider is replacing both of them or if they have more engines coming.
I remember a while back a reference to primarch coming back but not in a way expected or leading who they would be expected to.
So since then and the stories Master of Mankind and The Board is Set, I have expected a relaunch of the Legion of the Damned being lead by Order Daemon Primarch Ferrus Manus.
Seneca wrote: GW clearly announced that there will only be two books for vigilus.
Nothing stops a new non-Vigilis centered book from continuing the story, however. So GW gets to "claim" there will only be 2 books for Vigilis, but then surprise us with a conclusion to the story that releases an important model or set of models.
I mean, unless Vigilus gets blown up (which I personally hope is the case) then a campaign returning to Vigilus at some point seems a safe bet.
And please, for the love of Gork, do -not- bring sanguinius back. Him returning is one of the lamest plot points I can imagine. That's obviously my own opinion so people are free to disagree but I can't imagine many non-BA players being remotely thrilled about that development.
casvalremdeikun wrote: My bet, the Imperium loses Vigilus. Commander Dante is Rubicon'd into a Primaris Marine (in Phobos Armor because it is speaker). He becomes regent of Imperium Nihilus. The Imperium fights to retake Vigilus next year with Dante at the Nihilus army's head.
Dante is over 1,500 years. In the recently released novel, he is showing signs of age and wear. I don't think he'd take the risk of the the difficult and dangerous process to become a Primaris. My guess he is sacrificing himself somewhere along the unfolding story, then somehow merges with The Sanguinor, who in the novel often shows himself to Dante, to be reborn as the essence of Sanguinus (and as a spectacular model, imagine a flying/floating Sanguinor with the level of detail and size of Guilliman).
The 'age and wear' isn't a factor due to events of the novel (because vampire) and Roboute basically tasks him with regent-like duties at the end. I'd definitely expect a more Calgar-style primaris transition than having him poke-evolve to Blood Messiah.
PiñaColada wrote: And please, for the love of Gork, do -not- bring sanguinius back. Him returning is one of the lamest plot points I can imagine. That's obviously my own opinion so people are free to disagree but I can't imagine many non-BA players being remotely thrilled about that development.
Agreed, although I'd be down with a plot thread that mirrors the end of the Heresy
As-in Dante and the BAs show up on Vigilis, Dante faces off against Abaddon and through their fight, Dante temporarily succumbs to the Black Rage (so he THINKS he is Sanguinius facing off against Horus). Somewhere along the lines Abby strikes down Dante, just as Guilliman arrives. Abby and Guilly now face off as Guilly's lackeys take Dante's body to safety.
Dante isn't killed, but is injured to the point that only a Primaris upgrade will save him (hint hint, new model).
This could even happen on the Vengeful Spirit. Like history repeating itself, but this time with a different outcome (because neither Abby or Gilly will die)
I just want Angron and Fulgrim. I'd also happily accept Dorn as the only Imperium Primarch that I'd buy. But beyond that...no interest in Imperium Primarchs. Would also take the other Daemon Primarchs too; but not as important as Angron and Fulgrim.
Seneca wrote: GW clearly announced that there will only be two books for vigilus.
Nothing stops a new non-Vigilis centered book from continuing the story, however. So GW gets to "claim" there will only be 2 books for Vigilis, but then surprise us with a conclusion to the story that releases an important model or set of models.
-
Yeah, take a look at your Vigilus book, it's not titled "War for Vigilus: Vigilus defiant" it's titled "Imperium Nihlus: Vigilus Defiant"
Makes me think GW's planning a long series of campaign books over Imperium Nihlus. If this is the case we can expect to see blood angels VERY prominantly
DrGiggles wrote: Anyone notice the Mauler and Forgefiends are no longer available on the GW website? I wonder if the spider is replacing both of them or if they have more engines coming.
I still see it on the website just fine. The way that it was described to me is...
When GW's inventory system detects that it is low on something, it will flag it appropriately as either 'out of stock', 'no longer available', or remove it from the website completely. These are all things that are in place to make sure that nobody can buy a product that doesn't exist. A lot of this is automated, and then later on a person goes along, reviews the flags, fixes any errors, and continues on their way.
It used to be that movement on the GW website was indicative of new kits coming out or somesuch, but nowadays that's not a hint any more. It's just an inventory system playing with people's feelings.
The primarchs that Hastings originally mentioned were Magnus, Angron, Mortarion, Russ, and Guilliman. So far three of those have arrived. There may be some coming that aren't on the list, but personally I'm gonna bet on either Russ or Angron being next.
DrGiggles wrote: Anyone notice the Mauler and Forgefiends are no longer available on the GW website? I wonder if the spider is replacing both of them or if they have more engines coming.
I still see it on the website just fine. The way that it was described to me is...
When GW's inventory system detects that it is low on something, it will flag it appropriately as either 'out of stock', 'no longer available', or remove it from the website completely. These are all things that are in place to make sure that nobody can buy a product that doesn't exist. A lot of this is automated, and then later on a person goes along, reviews the flags, fixes any errors, and continues on their way.
It used to be that movement on the GW website was indicative of new kits coming out or somesuch, but nowadays that's not a hint any more. It's just an inventory system playing with people's feelings.
So what you're saying is that 'Out of Stock' and 'No Longer Available' mean the exact same thing? Then what's the point?
Some product goes 'No Longer Available' when it is being reboxed because it will receive a new product code, hence making it a 'new' product. The problem there is that it looks like the kits in question have the new boxes, so they either are being discontinued or there is some other reason that the kits will need a new product code to differentiate them from the old.
I'll be happy if the story doesn't end with good guy lame ass RG clone flying in and saving the day and Abby going all "I'll get you next time Gadget"..
Make the bad guy positively terrifying. Make the Imperium actually tremble in fear instead of using the bad guys to show us how "cool" blue coloured marines are.
Seneca wrote: GW clearly announced that there will only be two books for vigilus.
Nothing stops a new non-Vigilis centered book from continuing the story, however. So GW gets to "claim" there will only be 2 books for Vigilis, but then surprise us with a conclusion to the story that releases an important model or set of models.
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Yeah, take a look at your Vigilus book, it's not titled "War for Vigilus: Vigilus defiant" it's titled "Imperium Nihlus: Vigilus Defiant"
Makes me think GW's planning a long series of campaign books over Imperium Nihlus. If this is the case we can expect to see blood angels VERY prominantly
He’s right they did say it’s s two part book series.
They also said there would be several campaign book sets and this is the first of them.
So could be more Nihilis, different planets, different places, who knows.
I think maybe they’ll come back to Nihilis/Vigilus. But not necessarily the next one..
ph34r wrote: Are there any Black Legion color schemes other than... Black?
Would doing Sons of Horus or Luna Wolves paint be reasonable? How about something else entirely like all bronze or something?
No all are mostly black since abbadoff has taken over, except cult marines which will also field painted shoulders according to their god /legion of origin if they have joined the bl.
That said, probably depends on the leader of the specific leader.
ph34r wrote: Are there any Black Legion color schemes other than... Black?
Would doing Sons of Horus or Luna Wolves paint be reasonable? How about something else entirely like all bronze or something?
Well, the Black is part of their thing. Covering their shame. Luna Wolves or Sons of Horus would probably be frowned upon as they kinda pushed that part of their existence away.
But a BL themed army right after the name change still sporting the Sons’ colors would be cool. Or a separate Sons’ warband using BL rules that refuses to accept Abaddon as their leader. A BL warband painted mostly bronze with black details would look pretty awesome too.
ph34r wrote: Are there any Black Legion color schemes other than... Black?
Would doing Sons of Horus or Luna Wolves paint be reasonable? How about something else entirely like all bronze or something?
Others may have a better grasp on the background than me, but remember that the Black Legion is not really an organized group. Its an accumulation of anti-Imperial forces that more or less follow along with Abbadon's plans. So, yes, some were Sons of Horus, and some were Word Bearers, but there's Death Guard in there and Night Lords and various Renegade marines as well.
So my take is that the Black Legion is more like the Deathwatch than its own chapter with coordinated makings and the like. Do what you want.
I may personally go with black shoulder pads and some color on the rest of the armor, or something along those lines.
Occasionally you see cult troops (e.g. Rubricae) in different colours: ADB's Black Legion novel mentions all black and gold, blue with a black shoulder, and red with black shoulders, all as viable options for BL Rubricae. The old studio army in 3rd edition days had Berzerkers with red heads and shoulders on black armour.
By and large though the Black Legion are...well, black. Their colour scheme is actually a big part of their identity, not even taking into account that they're called the "Black" Legion. Whatever option you take should have something linking it back to the greater whole, otherwise you're not really playing Black Legion, you're just playing their allies. At the end of the day they're your dudes though, so do whatever makes you happy
There was the old Dornian Heresy alternative lore project in which the loyal and traitor legions are flipped, and the Imperial fists had become the black legion instead. They were yellow with black trim. Looks really rad.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: There was the old Dornian Heresy alternative lore project in which the loyal and traitor legions are flipped, and the Imperial fists had become the black legion instead. They were yellow with black trim. Looks really rad.
ph34r wrote: Are there any Black Legion color schemes other than... Black?
Would doing Sons of Horus or Luna Wolves paint be reasonable? How about something else entirely like all bronze or something?
Others may have a better grasp on the background than me, but remember that the Black Legion is not really an organized group. Its an accumulation of anti-Imperial forces that more or less follow along with Abbadon's plans. So, yes, some were Sons of Horus, and some were Word Bearers, but there's Death Guard in there and Night Lords and various Renegade marines as well.
So my take is that the Black Legion is more like the Deathwatch than its own chapter with coordinated makings and the like. Do what you want.
I may personally go with black shoulder pads and some color on the rest of the armor, or something along those lines.
My boys started at the beginning of 3rd ed so they remain as such-
WhiteDog wrote: Calgar is not unecessary now : he is killable.
But they just gave him a new model, so his plot armor is refreshed.
His period of imminent mortality has passed. Even the Dark Imperium novel suggested he had outlived his time and purpose, and the re-appearance of Guilliman diminished him and reminded him that he wasn't adequately keeping up with his duties any longer..
But now that he's gotten a phoenix-like rejuvenation, that's all been swept aside. He can now go falcon punch multiple Avatars.
We’re the mini-dex’s out this weekend? Are those in Shadowspear? I was already surprised yesterday to see a store showing off their pile of boxes going on sale this weekend because I didn’t realize it was that imminent.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: There was the old Dornian Heresy alternative lore project in which the loyal and traitor legions are flipped, and the Imperial fists had become the black legion instead. They were yellow with black trim. Looks really rad.
Probably kept the imperial forces from breaking into the Eye of Terror.
They actually went out of their way to bomb the entire WHFB world and establish a new continuity.
Also if 5 or even 10 years ago anyone would have suggested that that the primarchs would return as playable units, that person would have been laughted at.
GW is very well able to move the story if they want.
You call that “cutting them some slack”? I call that “acknowledging that they are much more likely to do that kind of very very bad decision now”.
Any piece of fluff involving more than 1 special character is a bad thing. Any overarching narrative affecting the whole setting is disastrously bad!
ph34r wrote: Are there any Black Legion color schemes other than... Black?
Would doing Sons of Horus or Luna Wolves paint be reasonable? How about something else entirely like all bronze or something?
No all are mostly black since abbadoff has taken over, except cult marines which will also field painted shoulders according to their god /legion of origin if they have joined the bl.
That said, probably depends on the leader of the specific leader.
I think its worth adding there are a variety of ways to do Black Legion and while they should be predominantly "black" there are still ways to do black and have other colors showing too.
The easiest is to give them some non-black shoulder pads something that might present identifying marks of your warband. Similarly, you can convert or buy add-ons that have cloth or sculptural elements covering the significant areas of their shoulder pads or portions of their armor, then paint those not black.
You could paint them a not-black color and then gradually layer black wash or ink until its just black enough... but not completely black.
Similarly you paint the armor the color you want and paint them so it appears the black paint has weathered away to reveal their armor's older colors.
Finished building the Chaos side of the Shadowspear boxset. They are beautiful models, even better in person. I can’t really pick a favourite unit, they all look so good. GW keep outdoing themselves every single release.
So every primaris unit thus far has had some kind of alternate weapon option when the regular box comes out.
Here's my conspiracy theory:
Belisarius Cawl has a hard on for bolt and plasma weaponry. Especially plasma weaponry. Here's my predictions for the alt weapon loadouts for the new units:
Infiltrators: Assault 2 bolt carbine type weapon, Strength 4 ap -
Eliminators: Plasma sniper rifle, Strength 7 AP -3, Heavy 1, Target characters. Overcharge for Strength 8 AP -3 Heavy 1 damage 2. No mortal wounds on 6s.
Suppressors: Onslaught Gatling Cannon. Heavy 6, strength 5 AP -1.
Whilst the other Primaris units in the box might get different loadout options, I kinda doubt that the Eliminators will. They already have three different ammo types.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You guys are missing his ultimate end-goal: The Plasma Bolt Rifle!!!
Isn't that the Plasma Incinerator?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crimson wrote: Whilst the other Primaris units in the box might get different loadout options, I kinda doubt that the Eliminators will. They already have three different ammo types.
I could see them getting a Missile Launcher or Lascannon, to be honest.
Bad news on the conversion site of things. The venomcrawler is not big enough to easily fuse him with the soulgrinder torso to create a chaos-drider like being. I'll try to make it work though.
Symbio Joe wrote: Bad news on the conversion site of things. The venomcrawler is not big enough to easily fuse him with the soulgrinder torso to create a chaos-drider like being. I'll try to make it work though.
I'm guessing the intent is to keep it as a soul grinder, but would a smaller torso work? I would think maybe the plastic demon prince since it's not that big.
The best possible ending to Vigilius is that while Abaddon and Calgar are locked in the final struggle of the war, a great cackling moon appears in the sky with the face of a leering Ork. Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka and the tech savant Orkimedes have recreated a single orky death star of ole. Suddenly, there is a great green flash and then the ground starts to tremble. A million times a million orks are teleported onto the planet's surface, surrounding the remaining imperial and chaos forces. Vigilius becomes the seat of a new emperor, the great green emperor.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I could see them getting a Missile Launcher or Lascannon, to be honest.
A sniper missile launcher? Doesn't seem terribly likely...
Not a sniper missile launcher, a concealed positions missile launcher. The Lascannon is more likely anyway, as apparently someone from GW has been watching Mobile Suit Gundam lately.
Symbio Joe wrote: Bad news on the conversion site of things. The venomcrawler is not big enough to easily fuse him with the soulgrinder torso to create a chaos-drider like being. I'll try to make it work though.
I'm guessing the intent is to keep it as a soul grinder, but would a smaller torso work? I would think maybe the plastic demon prince since it's not that big.
It could be the better solution considering the size, but I'd have to fix the hunched over pose of the demon prince. Thx for the input I will stare at plastic now some more.
It fires a laser to disrupt and plasmafy the air creating a pocket of charged particles enveloping a missile traveling down a low pressure air tunnel... allowing it to travel faster than the speed of sound without the distinctive pop of super sonic travel, that would give away the shooters position... as the missile closes in on its target the plasma weakens the targets armor, an adamantine tipped bolter round is fired from the missile tip to break a hole in the armor large enough for the missile to enter and detonate.
R48 Str7 AP -3 Dmg 1+2+1+d3
Don't forget its carried by a Gravis armour wearing, cameoline cloak draped, stealth jump pack wearing primaris with auto-flare launchers and ankle fired grenades.
Don't forget its carried by a Gravis armour wearing, cameoline cloak draped, stealth jump pack wearing primaris with auto-flare launchers and ankle fired grenades.
Don't forget its carried by a Gravis armour wearing, cameoline cloak draped, stealth jump pack wearing primaris with auto-flare launchers and ankle fired grenades.
From a Chapter called the Roughnecks, right?
Haha. Yes. One in 5 such marines can be equipped with a shoulder nuke that launches the equivalent of Deathstrike missile once per game.
Symbio Joe wrote: Bad news on the conversion site of things. The venomcrawler is not big enough to easily fuse him with the soulgrinder torso to create a chaos-drider like being. I'll try to make it work though.
Also the Captain’s helmet on his belt is in two parts. Doesn’t bother Me, but I know some people were wanting to cut it off to put on his head so that’s probably rather annoying.
ph34r wrote: Are there any Black Legion color schemes other than... Black?
Would doing Sons of Horus or Luna Wolves paint be reasonable? How about something else entirely like all bronze or something?
Well, the Black is part of their thing. Covering their shame. Luna Wolves or Sons of Horus would probably be frowned upon as they kinda pushed that part of their existence away.
But a BL themed army right after the name change still sporting the Sons’ colors would be cool. Or a separate Sons’ warband using BL rules that refuses to accept Abaddon as their leader. A BL warband painted mostly bronze with black details would look pretty awesome too.
And of course warp being warp it\s in realm of possibility to have largish(more than large enough for the 40k pittance skirmish purposes) force that got weird time jump so for them heresy was just yesterday so to speak so still carry SoH livery.
Albeit for that to make sense you would need to tone down on modern daemonic thingies and Abbaddon would look bit of out of place there.
Symbio Joe wrote: Bad news on the conversion site of things. The venomcrawler is not big enough to easily fuse him with the soulgrinder torso to create a chaos-drider like being. I'll try to make it work though.
I'm guessing the intent is to keep it as a soul grinder, but would a smaller torso work? I would think maybe the plastic demon prince since it's not that big.
It could be the better solution considering the size, but I'd have to fix the hunched over pose of the demon prince. Thx for the input I will stare at plastic now some more.
It wouldn't be the end of the world if the Eliminators got an option to swap for large anti-materiel rifles that fired fin stabilized discarding sabot melta bolts (FSDSMB).
BrotherGecko wrote: It wouldn't be the end of the world if the Eliminators got an option to swap for large anti-materiel rifles that fired fin stabilized discarding sabot melta bolts (FSDSMB).
There is a distinct lack of melta weapons in the Primaris line, I could see something like that. They deploy up close, which makes busting vehicles a little easier.
BrotherGecko wrote: It wouldn't be the end of the world if the Eliminators got an option to swap for large anti-materiel rifles that fired fin stabilized discarding sabot melta bolts (FSDSMB).
There is a distinct lack of melta weapons in the Primaris line, I could see something like that. They deploy up close, which makes busting vehicles a little easier.
Nah they should be long range anti-vehicle killer variants. Just make them reroll To Wound like the Vertus Praetor's melta missile.
They would basically have rifles that shoot impact detonating melta bombs.
MinscS2 wrote: Give Eliminators "plasma snipers" (which can double-up as anti-tank weapons) and there's no reason to pick any other Heavy Support-choice.
Nah, Eliminators are fine as is, and with their 3 different ammo-types I doubt they'll get more options in their own boxed set.
GW should instead focus on spreading some love to the Vanguard units that actually needs it: Reivers and Infiltrators.
I'd advocate for an either or. Character killers or vehicle killers but not both on the same squad.
Other than that though there are tons of reasons to use other heavy support choices. For one eliminators can be killed with minimal effort by lots of stuff. Those cloaks count for nothing when hit by cover ignoring weaponry. Once cover goes away they are just 6 MEQ. In close combat they are...primaris lol.
If you spend the effort the Eliminators benefit nicely from the Librarian’s only shoot the closest power.
Hmmmmm... Anti tank for the Eliminators... How about giving the Sergeant a fancy missile launcher system, and the two grunts laser targeters to direct said missiles?
AduroT wrote: If you spend the effort the Eliminators benefit nicely from the Librarian’s only shoot the closest power.
Hmmmmm... Anti tank for the Eliminators... How about giving the Sergeant a fancy missile launcher system, and the two grunts laser targeters to direct said missiles?
People were already screaming that the Imperium was copying Tau when they saw the plasma weapons on Primaris(even though they resembled the Ad Mech plasma ), do you really want to add Markerlights into the mix?
AduroT wrote: If you spend the effort the Eliminators benefit nicely from the Librarian’s only shoot the closest power.
Hmmmmm... Anti tank for the Eliminators... How about giving the Sergeant a fancy missile launcher system, and the two grunts laser targeters to direct said missiles?
People were already screaming that the Imperium was copying Tau when they saw the plasma weapons on Primaris(even though they resembled the Ad Mech plasma ), do you really want to add Markerlights into the mix?
Tau already stole the laser targeters from guard lasgun technology.
macluvin wrote: It would be great if they actually made possessed playable or even gave them not crappy looking models...
Ha!
Yeah, I keep wanting to like them, but they're just so mechanically and aesthetically lame... Even the new ones look like a joke, despite better proportions.
AduroT wrote: I’m hoping for Melta on the Supressors myself. Make use of their speed. I also want Melta Bombs for Reivers.
Or a melta grenade launcher.
Reivers w melta bombs would be badass
IMHO melta bombs are mostly useless in 8th (You should be able to use grenades in CC!) but there are a lot of units that should be able to take them that can’t. Reivers being at the top of that list. MBs are the marine demolition charge. You think that a unit designed to cause disruption and terror in the enemy backfield might want a few of those, right?
And it’s not like hanging one off a marine’s belt is a particularly difficult bit of modeling. Just toss one or two on a primaris sprue somewhere and FAQ the rules to let them take them. They’ve aded them to units before.
AduroT wrote: I’m hoping for Melta on the Supressors myself. Make use of their speed. I also want Melta Bombs for Reivers.
Or a melta grenade launcher.
Reivers w melta bombs would be badass
IMHO melta bombs are mostly useless in 8th (You should be able to use grenades in CC!) but there are a lot of units that should be able to take them that can’t. Reivers being at the top of that list. MBs are the marine demolition charge. You think that a unit designed to cause disruption and terror in the enemy backfield might want a few of those, right?
And it’s not like hanging one off a marine’s belt is a particularly difficult bit of modeling. Just toss one or two on a primaris sprue somewhere and FAQ the rules to let them take them. They’ve aded them to units before.
Melta Bombs are so useless they could be removed and nobody would notice. Way too limited of range, can't be used in melee anymore, and it only rerolls vs vehicles. At least Melta weapons have a more generic application.
AduroT wrote: I’m hoping for Melta on the Supressors myself. Make use of their speed. I also want Melta Bombs for Reivers.
Or a melta grenade launcher.
Reivers w melta bombs would be badass
IMHO melta bombs are mostly useless in 8th (You should be able to use grenades in CC!) but there are a lot of units that should be able to take them that can’t. Reivers being at the top of that list. MBs are the marine demolition charge. You think that a unit designed to cause disruption and terror in the enemy backfield might want a few of those, right?
And it’s not like hanging one off a marine’s belt is a particularly difficult bit of modeling. Just toss one or two on a primaris sprue somewhere and FAQ the rules to let them take them. They’ve aded them to units before.
Melta Bombs are so useless they could be removed and nobody would notice. Way too limited of range, can't be used in melee anymore, and it only rerolls vs vehicles. At least Melta weapons have a more generic application.
Give them a melee profile and extend the reroll to affect monstrous creatures too? That would be a lot more fitting I reckon.
Then release an accessory sprue with a meltabomb on it, and allow my AM sergeants to take them again for the lolz.
