Also the burna/loota stratagem requires a Spanner in the unit.

Who the crap uses a spanner lol. If burnas were worth a damn i could see Deathskullz using a spanner purely for another KMB, but nobody else. But of course burnas arent worth a damn lol.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
everybody else gets an auto explode strat "before you roll the die"

We get "after moving, it dies and blows up" seriously? what kind of gak is that? if it had an extra effect on top sure but wtf gw?
So a dakkajet reduced to 0 wounds normally, cant use the auto-explode on. It has to actively destroy itself to auto explode. But everyone else just spends a CP whenever it actually dies.
Talk about horse crap.

I actually like the Flyin' Headbutt, You could do a Flyer Wing of 3 Pyromaniac Burna-Bommers, booming infantry for 3+ for MWs, then fly where YOU want to and denote, showering everyone within 6" straight 3 MWs. At that point the Burna-Bommer has already used it payload and would probably be near death anyway, for 1CP, yeah id do it, kamikaze it right at a castle and let the fire reign. It gives us access to more MWs that is more targettable and also for me, it finally makes me pick between the Blizta and the Burna. I was always quite heavily in the Blitza camp but now Burnas all the way.

"This is a great way for your Boomboyz, Feral Orks, Madboyz and more to gang up together and break some heads."

Feral Orks???

PiñaColada wrote:
Well new psychic powers (one for each clan) could easily be good and the ability to buy the kustom jobs for CP instead of getting them for free with the mekboy workshop is interesting. I really thought they'd make us use that thing. I assume we'll get 1 or 2 worthwhile upgrades out of that.

And the flyer strat is solid AF on a burna-bomma IMO. Auto-explode 6" and flat 3 MWs? Krump that castle!

I will be running two or three in my next game to see the potential. Time to magnetize and paint these two planes I have which were collecting dust

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Also the burna/loota stratagem requires a Spanner in the unit.

Who the crap uses a spanner lol. If burnas were worth a damn i could see Deathskullz using a spanner purely for another KMB, but nobody else. But of course burnas arent worth a damn lol.

Yeah the Klever Spanner strat is pure garbage. I never take a Spanner, and why not just use a CP reroll? Unless your saving it for something else in the shooting phase.... If it was flat 3 shots for 1/2CP then hell yeah. But not for roll an extra dice. If it were roll and extra dice and add both, then we are seriously talking! But obvs we have to get some crap strats.


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Btw whats a Boomboy? I dont remember them at all.

 deffrekka wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Also the burna/loota stratagem requires a Spanner in the unit.

Who the crap uses a spanner lol. If burnas were worth a damn i could see Deathskullz using a spanner purely for another KMB, but nobody else. But of course burnas arent worth a damn lol.

Yeah the Klever Spanner strat is pure garbage. I never take a Spanner, and why not just use a CP reroll? Unless your saving it for something else in the shooting phase.... If it was flat 3 shots for 1/2CP then hell yeah. But not for roll an extra dice. If it were roll and extra dice and add both, then we are seriously talking! But obvs we have to get some crap strats.


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Btw whats a Boomboy? I dont remember them at all.

Probably a subkultur

Well, for Burnas the effect is useful since the D3 is not unit wide like Lootas are.
So for them you'd be rolling 2dice per model. Cant CP reroll the entire unit.

Can you drop both Burna Bombs in a single movement phase?

I don't get how would it work with the new Kustom jobs.

 Emicrania wrote:
I don't get how would it work with the new Kustom jobs.

I imagine its just a CP to upgrade a unit with a Kustom Job, probably more than just 1CP knowing how expensive Ork strats are. If you take a Mek Shop you'll get 1 for free instead (which isnt a good trade).

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Well, for Burnas the effect is useful since the D3 is not unit wide like Lootas are.
So for them you'd be rolling 2dice per model. Cant CP reroll the entire unit.

Actually burnas for burna boyz are unit wide one D3 roll for shots as well, so it's not great on them either.

Think the auto explode is very nasty. Bring 3 burnas, crash each per turn after they bomb. That'll just stop castle armies.

Think even the better aspect of it is people will focus fire them out of fear. That leaves you entire army to move up and do what needs to be done. 3 burnas only costs what... 390?

I think they'll either nerf it to once a game or pull back the burna to d3 like the rest of the planes.

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Also the burna/loota stratagem requires a Spanner in the unit.

Who the crap uses a spanner lol. If burnas were worth a damn i could see Deathskullz using a spanner purely for another KMB, but nobody else. But of course burnas arent worth a damn lol.

Yeah the Klever Spanner strat is pure garbage. I never take a Spanner, and why not just use a CP reroll? Unless your saving it for something else in the shooting phase.... If it was flat 3 shots for 1/2CP then hell yeah. But not for roll an extra dice. If it were roll and extra dice and add both, then we are seriously talking! But obvs we have to get some crap strats.


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Btw whats a Boomboy? I dont remember them at all.

Probably a subkultur

I mean in the lore... we know what Madboyz are and Feral Orkz, but what was a Boomboy. I was thinking a type of Stormboy? Or maybe Orkz that specialise with grenades.

So you need the mek Workshop to access the Kustom Jobs,..?

tulun wrote:
Can you drop both Burna Bombs in a single movement phase?

No. Is a stratagem. So once per phase. Is ok. Nothing groundbreaking.

Ah, I misread the text. I think the Orkymatic Pistons would be a good job if it was army wide, but it is only one unit... So you buy a mek workshop to give a unit that isn't that great +3 to move?

 deffrekka wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Also the burna/loota stratagem requires a Spanner in the unit.

Who the crap uses a spanner lol. If burnas were worth a damn i could see Deathskullz using a spanner purely for another KMB, but nobody else. But of course burnas arent worth a damn lol.

Yeah the Klever Spanner strat is pure garbage. I never take a Spanner, and why not just use a CP reroll? Unless your saving it for something else in the shooting phase.... If it was flat 3 shots for 1/2CP then hell yeah. But not for roll an extra dice. If it were roll and extra dice and add both, then we are seriously talking! But obvs we have to get some crap strats.


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Btw whats a Boomboy? I dont remember them at all.

Isn't the point that you would get the 2 dice pick the best every time you shot? Seems pretty good to me if you're already investing in badmoons double shooting.

 Emicrania wrote:

tulun wrote:
Can you drop both Burna Bombs in a single movement phase?

No. Is a stratagem. Do once per phase.

I meant these:

he meant the actual burna bomb that Burna Bombers drop.

They have 2. And i believe theyre locked to once a turn.

Meaning you are either not using 1 or hoping they dont kill it while you wait a turn to drop another.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
So you need the mek Workshop to access the Kustom Jobs,..?

no only to get 1 for free


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 careh wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Also the burna/loota stratagem requires a Spanner in the unit.

Who the crap uses a spanner lol. If burnas were worth a damn i could see Deathskullz using a spanner purely for another KMB, but nobody else. But of course burnas arent worth a damn lol.

Yeah the Klever Spanner strat is pure garbage. I never take a Spanner, and why not just use a CP reroll? Unless your saving it for something else in the shooting phase.... If it was flat 3 shots for 1/2CP then hell yeah. But not for roll an extra dice. If it were roll and extra dice and add both, then we are seriously talking! But obvs we have to get some crap strats.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw whats a Boomboy? I dont remember them at all.

Isn't the point that you would get the 2 dice pick the best every time you shot? Seems pretty good to me if you're already investing in badmoons double shooting.

Id rather use a CP reroll than blast 2CP on the strat.

Ugh, I have GOT to see these other specialist mobs now.

Any thoughts on using a Morkanaut now that it can move 11" a turn with a Kustom job with reroll advances?

All of a sudden it's keeping up with Battlewagons. Battlewagons at codex points, overpriced. Battlewagons with 5++ maybe more appealing?

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Ah, I misread the text. I think the Orkymatic Pistons would be a good job if it was army wide, but it is only one unit... So you buy a mek workshop to give a unit that isn't that great +3 to move?

The Mek Shop is only needed to give a Kustom Job for FREE. you can still spend CP to do it WITHOUT the Mek Shop

Also, a unit of Deff Dreads can be 3, correct? So would that mean that each dread in the mob got the +3 to move?

Yeah, that flying headbutt stratagem is almost broken good. It's crazy what you can do with a base that big, especially to armies that try to have a bunch of units clustered around a character for their aura. Or better yet, a bunch of characters all bunched together. I'd happily trade a plane for 10-15 unstoppable mortal wounds, especially since you can drop the burna bomb first and do a bunch more.

Depending on how subcultures work, this could actually make burna boyz useful as well. AP -2 and rerolling wounds in combat is actually pretty nasty, and rerolling the number of shots for shooting actually closes the gap with D6 flamers somewhat.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Also, a unit of Deff Dreads can be 3, correct? So would that mean that each dread in the mob got the +3 to move?

Yeah if Kustom Jobs do infact affect the whole unit and not just an individual vehicle

I think that stratagem is best with kanz and deff dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

Hmm, looks like they are giving us some cool stuff, the mekboy workshop for Free Upgrade, is interesting, depending on your build could be really useful. And yes Flying Headbutt is hilarious and for just 1 CP My Burnabommer will use it every Game, Until Every body wises up and shoots it out of the sky first turn. Too Bad about Ghazz but there not totally screwing us methinks.

That eadbutt is a dirty dirty boi

It almost demands use just for how much fun cratering an enemy formation would be.

Also equally discriminates against elite infantry or vehicles.

Yeah i dont think i'd ever do that kustom job on a naut.

Reasoning being: Nauts have a lot of heavy guns, you dont wanna advance it as it is and 8" movement is still enough to get places decently quick. I usually dont have an issue getting my morkanaut places, but my kanz? dreads? oh god they'd LOVE that rule.

Im assuming Kustom Jobz will be like relics, 1/3CP for 1/2 kustom jobs and the Mekshop giving a third.
Maybe (doubtful) they will tweak how the mekshop works?

 acme2468 wrote:
Hmm, looks like they are giving us some cool stuff, the mekboy workshop for Free Upgrade, is interesting, depending on your build could be really useful. And yes Flying Headbutt is hilarious and for just 1 CP My Burnabommer will use it every Game, Until Every body wises up and shoots it out of the sky first turn. Too Bad about Ghazz but there not totally screwing us methinks.

It really depends how much CP the Kustom Jobs cost. As your going to have to sacrifice one of your 3 detachments (if you take all 3) to get a Fortification Network and then pay 80pts for the Mek Shop. If you take 3 Battalions your loosing out on an extra 5CP, but if Kustom Jobs are 1CP each then it isnt a fair trade. If Kustom Jobs are 2-3CP then maybe its worth it if you drop like a Spearhead of something for the Mek Shop. As of just now not knowing more, id still rather pay CP than take a Detachment for a Mek Shop that I still wont use physically for my vehicles outside of the Kustom Job.

Unlessssss they update its rules in the PA. Which they could do?

For people like me that run a lot of vehicles as it is, i usually dont even have a third detachment. Definitely wont have one if you are using Ghaz.

Unless they revamp the Mekshop i'll pay CP every time. And i doubt they'll revamp it, its got too many words to fix!

The exploding flyer seems insanely good until the faq comes out
Potentially an insane amount of mortal wounds! Especially when you take your flyer detachment of 3 burna bombers as pyromaniacs mortal wounding infantry on a 3+

Then blow them up for lols

A 10 man infantry unit would take 7 mortals from a bomb then 3 from the explosion.

The burna blows up a full 6” and does 3 mortals that’s a bubble of 16.5” x 15.5”

The +3" on a unit of 3 dreads doesn't sound *terrible*. As ES, they are moving 10", d6 reroll +1. They could probably hit combat on turn 2 if you're fielded a Trike really easily.

Of course, you could just Tellyporta them and do the same thing lol.

 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with kanz and deff dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

But you werent really in control of when or if it exploded. People could ignore it, people could fail to kill it, you could fail on a reroll to explode it. Now you get to decide when it explodes, its in your turn. The opponent doesnt have a turn to move out of the way and then shoot at it. You are taking out a lot of variables that could go wrong with this stratagem. Its not broken, but it is damn well pretty good. Codexes have ways to auto explode their vehicles but they have to be die first and usually they are already in your lines so it isnt as good. And mostly youd only do it when your in CC anyway. So Flyin' Headbutt is actually really good, and people are allowed to get excited about it as it gives us options.

The auto-blow strat is going to get nerfed in the first FAQ, no question. The fact that you can activate it yourself without having to wait for the plane to die makes it ridiculous. In any game where you get first turn, you can now deliver 3MW to anything within a 14x16 inch bubble, with no counter possible, for the cost of one burna-bommer. Think about that. It's truly ridiculous.

This one strat completely nullifies castle deployment, and even against armies without castle deployment, it forces them to deploy in a hugely dispersed formation. The bubble covered by exploding burna is massive. Eldar army with warlocks, even skyrunners? Boom, you just killed all of them, unless they're more than 14 inches from one another, not to mention reduced their farseers to half health.

That's just a few examples, but this one strat basically destroys entire army lists on T1 with no counter if you go first.

tulun wrote:
The +3" on a unit of 3 dreads doesn't sound *terrible*. As ES, they are moving 10", d6 reroll +1. They could probably hit combat on turn 2 if you're fielded a Trike really easily.

Of course, you could just Tellyporta them and do the same thing lol.

Tellyport one, run the other one up.

Dreadklaws for days

yukishiro1 wrote:
The auto-blow strat is going to get nerfed in the first FAQ, no question. The fact that you can activate it yourself without having to wait for the plane to die makes it ridiculous. In any game where you get first turn, you can now deliver 3MW to anything within a 14x16 inch bubble, with no counter possible, for the cost of one burna-bommer. Think about that. It's truly ridiculous.

Oh, I'm thinking about it bro.

In fact I'm giggling about it.

yukishiro1 wrote:
The auto-blow strat is going to get nerfed in the first FAQ, no question. The fact that you can activate it yourself without having to wait for the plane to die makes it ridiculous. In any game where you get first turn, you can now deliver 3MW to anything within a 14x16 inch bubble, with no counter possible, for the cost of one burna-bommer. Think about that. It's truly ridiculous.

On top of doing a bunch of mortal wounds as they fly over another enemy unit. At 132 points, they could legitimately make their points back with pretty minimal effort.

I could see it being nerfed, but tbh, I don't think it's a gamebreaker. Powerful, but not game winning.

 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with kanz and deff dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

Big difference is you force it to die and explode. Not that it just auto explodes on death. This means you can run it up, bomb and force it to die and explode. This means that the enemy doesnt get to move out of the way or has to shoot it down for it to work. Every turn you just run in and cause 3 mortal wounds around a fairly sized bubble.

It's overpowered on T1. It's fine on any other turn IMO. It wouldn't make any "sense," but the most obvious solution is just to not let you do it till T2 like DS.

How is Killing a single intercessor and half any good ?
Especially with such a big base, it's super easy to stop the plane going where it wants to be

The base thing is true, I hadn't thought about that. So there is one "counter" of sorts - pack your units in such a way that there is nowhere for the plane's base to end movement within 6 inches of anything that the 3MW is a big threat to.

Yay 8th edition, a game that's more about tetris deployment than playing the game! Yay for making screens even more powerful!

how is it an auto anti-castle stratagem?

Castle stratagies dont have magic spots in the middle of them for it to sit, its going to have to sit on the side of the bubble. Which most likely wont reach the characters and only hit 2-4 units, not most of the army. And if the opponent is smart there wont be a spot behind the castle either so flying over the castle to bomb before 'eadbutting wouldnt be easy either.

Piston Job:

Most efficient on Dreadz, but they also need it the least.

Surprisingly decent on the Stompa, making it more likely you get the big boy into CC, but... it's still the Stompa, so pass.

Best unit to use it on is Kanz. For 300ish pts, you got fairly mobile a durable platform of 6 BS4+ Rokkitz. Take em in a Dreadwaagh and you could double-shoot and net an average of 7 hits. Not too shabby for 300 pts.

Doesnt affect the stompa, though that would be amusing. 15" moving stompa lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
how is it an auto anti-castle stratagem?

Castle stratagies dont have magic spots in the middle of them for it to sit, its going to have to sit on the side of the bubble. Which most likely wont reach the characters and only hit 2-4 units, not most of the army. And if the opponent is smart there wont be a spot behind the castle either so flying over the castle to bomb before 'eadbutting wouldnt be easy either.

I honestly think it's good because it forces the enemy to deploy in a particular way to avoid it, or simply accept it's going to be super annoying and do a bunch of damage.

Or make them shoot your Burner Bombers instead of something far more useful, like a Morkanaut.

The actual damage it'll probably do isn't going break the game.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
how is it an auto anti-castle stratagem?

Castle stratagies dont have magic spots in the middle of them for it to sit, its going to have to sit on the side of the bubble. Which most likely wont reach the characters and only hit 2-4 units, not most of the army. And if the opponent is smart there wont be a spot behind the castle either so flying over the castle to bomb before 'eadbutting wouldnt be easy either.

It's a fair point, but that really just shows how silly this game's mechanics are. I mean this stratagem is literally the plane crashing into something...and yet it can't actually crash on top of anybody. It has to crash right next to them instead.

"Sorry bro, you can't crash on top of me because you bounce off my T2 grotness, you'll have to crash 1mm in front of me instead! Thanks for playing!" - Some grot.

Nobody talks on the must have anty overwatch spell? That's more than good?

Yeah the spell is great, and actually combos well with the kulture rule too. It's just too bad the kulture is not very good.

T1nk4bell wrote:
Nobody talks on the must have anty overwatch spell? That's more than good?

Do you plan on fielding a bunch of Blood Axe units?

Y'all seen this;




Automatically Appended Next Post:
A much needed buff for our kustom bosses, that.

A 4++ is very welcome.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Y'all seen this;




Automatically Appended Next Post:
A much needed buff for our kustom bosses, that.

A 4++ is very welcome.

Where is this from????

And THAT'S some good gak. Our bike bosses just got chonky!

That's hugely awesome...though it is yet another reason not to take Ghaz. Lol.

You can also take it on the warbike (and mega-armor I guess, but...) since warboss is a keyword and all three variants have it. That 1CP is an autospend on a warbike warboss now.

Yeah, I can't defend Ghaz on this one. "Look at this awesome model! He's so durable everyone will want him! Now let's put out a 1CP Stratagem that makes models that have 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost even more durable than he is!"

ohhhhh that strat is juicy.
Are wartikes Warboss keyworded? that would mega help wartrikes.

No. The Trike has the Speedboss keyword.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
ohhhhh that strat is juicy.
Are wartikes Warboss keyworded? that would mega help wartrikes.

Trikes are a speedboss keyword.

If we get a warlord trait stratagem on top of this, Warbosses probably just became legitimately competitive.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
"This is a great way for your Boomboyz, Feral Orks, Madboyz and more to gang up together and break some heads."

Feral Orks???

Those are probably just the names of further sub-culture traits.

Sweet Gork, our prayers have been answered. Being able to have a beefed up Warboss with a 4+ invuln. AND not be forced to take the BM warlord trait to get it? Um, this will be auto-take in almost every army for 1 CP.

With this Strat, you could make an Evil Sunz Warboss with Might is Right and Da Killa Klaw that moves at 6", has 6 S14 AP-3 D3 attacks with rerolls to Wound, 7 Wounds, and a 4++. Which is just a better Ghaz is every way.

 flandarz wrote:
With this Strat, you could make an Evil Sunz Warboss with Might is Right and Da Lilla Klaw that moves at 6", has 6 S14 AP-3 D4 attacks, 7 Wounds, and a 4++. Which is just a better Ghaz is every way.

And is as cheap as 78 points with index options. Freaking nuts.

 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with kanz and deff dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

I have played burna bommers quite a lot, and when one goes down on any enemy army, it usually wins the game. My opponents are so terrified of them, that entire castles have broken apart just to get out of the 6" blast radius.
Being able to straight up fly into the enemy and deal 3MW for every single unit, including every buff character, within 6" of a flyer base is absolutely insane. I fully expect a FAQ telling us that burna bommers don't crash and burn though.

Here's the kicker: That pyromaniacs subculture adds one to the burna bomms' rolls and re-rolls the skorcha missiles' number of shots roll. How about a pyromaniac air wing? Dealing mortal wounds on a 3+, killing infantry almost as good as a dakkajet and then start dropping 3MW on everything not properly screened? Hell yes. Hell indeed.

That warboss strat is from Facebook btw.

Best news all year. Go time.

my biker boss is going to love that strategem

while Ghaz is not looking to be worth it likely I still look forward to painting him up and having a centerpiece HQ in my display case. I will probably run him in some narrative events though to get some tabletop appearances.

I was really hoping that the changes would include ork burna boys being D6 like every other flamer out there but alas... fail by gw we get a strat requiring a useless spanner.

Great Waagh we alll know the problem

Blood axe psychic power is decent but limited to blood axe weirdboy which isn’t ideal and it really only matter vs tau or dark angels or similar armies with rough overwatch.

Pyro subkultur doesn’t make burnas burna bottles skorchas good, although skorcha missles and killa jets might be decent... but I hope we get something better then this and I hope it’s in addition to clan buffs.

Kustom jobs..... the mekshop isn’t worth 80 points even with the free kustom job saving you 1cp but this is the right direction maybe at 30 points or something. I’m assuming the old kustom jobs are gone...
Orky pistons might be okay in a dread list

Spanner is a useless strat for lootas just reroll it’s a cheaper cost and even if I’m all in on burnas w pyro subkultur giving my 2 dice with rerolls burnas are still bad

The exploding plane is useful when you want it.

Overall egh hopeful though

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's hugely awesome...though it is yet another reason not to take Ghaz. Lol.

You can also take it on the warbike (and mega-armor I guess, but...) since warboss is a keyword and all three variants have it. That 1CP is an autospend on a warbike warboss now.

Same thoughts for me.

By the way, Zhadsnark da Ripper is a WARBOSS


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gungo wrote:
Pyro subkultur doesn’t make burnas burna bottles skorchas good, although skorcha missles and killa jets might be decent... but I hope we get something better then this and I hope it’s in addition to clan buffs.

Burnas with re-rolls to number of shots and re-roll to wound in melee might actually be worth considering, but I doubt that there aren't better things to do with your culture.

Kustom jobs..... the mekshop isn’t worth 80 points even with the free kustom job saving you 1cp but this is the right direction maybe at 30 points or something. I’m assuming the old kustom jobs are gone...

Maybe if the mek shop lets you get multiple custom jobs, it might be worth it depending on the jobs. There might be something in there worth ~27 points per dread/buggy or 14 points per kan. Then again, you lose a detachment to field a mek shops, soooo...

the +1 to the burna bomb roll sounds nifty. Could see that being really annoying.

 Jidmah wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's hugely awesome...though it is yet another reason not to take Ghaz. Lol.

You can also take it on the warbike (and mega-armor I guess, but...) since warboss is a keyword and all three variants have it. That 1CP is an autospend on a warbike warboss now.

Same thoughts for me.

By the way, Zhadsnark da Ripper is a WARBOSS


[

Oh Lord Jesus hold me.

And you can make a speed waaagh detachment with the relic bike on a wartrike.

I just realized that you can use two burna bombers to clear a spot crash the third one into.

I guess the time has finally come to built the third set of burna bomms.

Man... why you do this, GW? Give us a great looking Ghaz, give him some solid stats, then forget to give us a way to deliver him. Then you drop a "make any Warboss into Ghaz" Stratagem. I want to like our Prophet, dammit! Stop making it hard!

Us orks don't know what we want! People are complaining that Ghazz isn't good or competitive and then we are given a great Stratagem to use that makes an already decent unit awesome and people complain about it!

 flandarz wrote:
Man... why you do this, GW? Give us a great looking Ghaz, give him some solid stats, then forget to give us a way to deliver him. Then you drop a "make any Warboss into Ghaz" Stratagem. I want to like our Prophet, dammit! Stop making it hard!

Yeah, that really undercuts his announcement rules-wise. He's really just a really good centerpiece now to have in your glass case at this point. Why did they do my boy so dirty :(


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 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:


Us orks don't know what we want! People are complaining that Ghazz isn't good or competitive and then we are given a great Stratagem to use that makes an already decent unit awesome and people complain about it!

Don't get me wrong, I love the stratagem they gave us, since its like the SM chapter master one but on steroids for what it costs. It just sucks that it makes Ghazzy, an already questionable competitive choice, even look worse in comparison when it's cross kultur, AND you can't have it alongside Ghazzy himself, so everyone will default to their own instead.

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:


Us orks don't know what we want! People are complaining that Ghazz isn't good or competitive and then we are given a great Stratagem to use that makes an already decent unit awesome and people complain about it!

Nah, this is great! It clears up a ton of funds to buy a FW bikerboss!

It also means I get to play Evil Sunz and forget about Goffa! Total win.

that strat really should have just said you cant give it to Ghaz. And name it something else like "Ghazkhull's Right Hand" so it thematically doesnt break anything about Ghaz not being "the biggest boss"

Wouldnt have hurt anything to do that. As someone who's used a warboss with Best Armor Teef Can Buy, that 4++ helps a lot but a boss still dies pretty fast if hes actually swung at, just usually 2-3 attacks more needed than normal.

The rule itself is amazing and will be surprising to see an army w/o that on a boss from now on. Its...just really really dumb that they actually gave us an incentive to not use the new big shiny model. Since when does GW give you a reason to NOT get something new? Usually it's the other way around "Must have Ghaz in your army though he cannot benefit from this himself" lol

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:


Us orks don't know what we want! People are complaining that Ghazz isn't good or competitive and then we are given a great Stratagem to use that makes an already decent unit awesome and people complain about it!

I think it's more melancholy than straight up complaining.

I can't think of a reason to field Ghaz at 200 more points (assuming we are correct about the PL) when the walking boss was already close in offensive output. Now it can take a punch and do JUST AS MUCH DAMAGE for only 1 CP.

I'll probably field my new Artel W warboss as a MA boss just for fun next time I play with this. Make him my Warlord, as befits a bad ass.

Yeesh, everyone is so down on Ghaz.

He's fine. Not "add him to any army and he makes that army better," but "if you want to play him and you build around him you're not really gimping yourself." Build around him to take advantage of what he brings to the table and he can work. He's probably not going to be showing up on any top tables but he's also not going to be an automatic ticket to the bottom tables either. Unless you're really gunning for an overall win at a bigger event there's probably no reason not to bring him if you've got the models to take advantage of his buffs and he appeals to your play style.

I want to give him a go with two foot bosses, one with da killa klaw and the other with da lukky stick. Not much survives getting hit by that.

(And yes, I am an incorrigible optimist)

 godardc wrote:
How is Killing a single intercessor and half any good ?
Especially with such a big base, it's super easy to stop the plane going where it wants to be

People used to screen against Mawlocs know this. Yet this strat is much better than mawloc with blood of Baal strat. Broken ? Surely not iif your opponent is not too bad a player

 flandarz wrote:
Piston Job:

Most efficient on Dreadz, but they also need it the least.

Surprisingly decent on the Stompa, making it more likely you get the big boy into CC, but... it's still the Stompa, so pass.

Best unit to use it on is Kanz. For 300ish pts, you got fairly mobile a durable platform of 6 BS4+ Rokkitz. Take em in a Dreadwaagh and you could double-shoot and net an average of 7 hits. Not too shabby for 300 pts.

You can even put it on a Stompa to begin with so it doesnt matter hahaha

 deffrekka wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with Kanz and deff Dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

But you weren't really in control of when or if it exploded. People could ignore it, people could fail to kill it, you could fail on a reroll to explode it. Now you get to decide when it explodes, it's in your turn. The opponent doesn't have a turn to move out of the way and then shoot at it. You are taking out a lot of variables that could go wrong with this stratagem. It's not broken, but it is damn well pretty good. Codexes have ways to auto explode their vehicles but they have to die first and usually, they are already in your lines so it isn't as good. And mostly you'd only do it when you're in CC anyway. So Flyin' Headbutt is actually really good, and people are allowed to get excited about it as it gives us options.

By all means, don't make me curb your, or anybody's enthusiasm. I'm very happy to see some positive feedback in this 3d

HOWEVER
it takes one gotcha in order to screen correctly such a large base. I strongly encourage you guys to try it at home. Test things at home before being disappointed on the board. Always. From screening to new stratagems and strategies. And remember that you are paying 133 AND a CP in order to deal that damage. AND you fly in a straight line with the planes. AND you might go second. AND if you play it you know this going first and who's going second.

I played 7 months of freebooters itc and had some fairly good results with 3 planes BEFORE marines got godlike. It ain't s pretty sight getting shelled to death with some stalker rifle

So yeah, is a good tool, but calling it gamebreaking is BS.

Awesome zhardsnark or bikerboss w relic strat da biggest no need to worry about ghaz now

Durable, hard hitting and delivery plus not locked in goff
This is great..

Now what to do with my old ghaz model? Is he just another mega armor nob?
Warboss in mega armour is legends so it’s out.
Biker boss w relic klaw or zhardsnark is great now

 TedNugent wrote:
Nah, this is great! It clears up a ton of funds to buy a FW bikerboss!

It also means I get to play Evil Sunz and forget about Goffa! Total win.

Welcome to funOrks

Zhadsnark's model is beautiful and Speedfreeks are a blast to play (if underpowered as it stands today).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm guessing GW think people will buy Ghaz and play him as another boss.

I doubt they'll let that stratagem work on a named character. That seems like it'll go away in an errata to me, but that's just a hunch obviously. On another note, if we get an extra warlord trait as a stratagem as well then that warboss can be a really effective missile without the usual drawback of giving up warlord kill.

Or if we get the two warlord traits on a single character instead then we can make a truly nasty warboss (I just hope we get one of those strats)

We might be catapulted in an era of characters spam

 Jidmah wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with kanz and deff dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

I have played burna bommers quite a lot, and when one goes down on any enemy army, it usually wins the game. My opponents are so terrified of them, that entire castles have broken apart just to get out of the 6" blast radius.
Being able to straight up fly into the enemy and deal 3MW for every single unit, including every buff character, within 6" of a flyer base is absolutely insane. I fully expect a FAQ telling us that burna bommers don't crash and burn though.

Here's the kicker: That pyromaniacs subculture adds one to the burna bomms' rolls and re-rolls the skorcha missiles' number of shots roll. How about a pyromaniac air wing? Dealing mortal wounds on a 3+, killing infantry almost as good as a dakkajet and then start dropping 3MW on everything not properly screened? Hell yes. Hell indeed.

This is what I suggested early Defo makes the choice between Burna and Blitza even more clear cut now. What if there is a strat to drop both bombs in 1 run!

I'm not trying to be down on Ghaz. Just saying that this Strat basically invalidates any reason to take him. A Codex Evil Sunz Warboss with this Strat, Might is Right, and Da Killa Klaw outdoes Ghaz in almost everything, for a third of the cost. Durability is actually higher as you have character protection, Grot Shields, and the ability to be healed more reliably, even if you lose 5 Wounds, you don't have a 2+, and lose the "Max 4" ability. He's as fast as Ghaz on his second Wound bracket, has more reliable charges, and can be Da Jump'd, giving him more mobility. He has as many attacks as Ghaz on his second bracket, and his Strength equals Ghaz on his first bracket, he rerolls failed Wounds and Ghaz rerolls 1s to hit, and he loses 1 Damage (the loss of 1 AP is negligible) so I'd say they're a wash for CC damage. At this point, the only thing Ghaz does better is shoot Infantry (if you got a Kombi-Rokkit, you're actually better against some targets).

That's why I'm so disappointed. It isn't that Ghaz is bad, per se. It's that they just made him so much worse than a "generic" Warboss.

warboss is gonna have so much Cp dumped on him...

1 for Da Biggest Boss
1 for Relic
1 for Extra Warlord Trait (if its a thing)

And thats just the building part, nevermind the during the turn stuff.

Somehow i feel skeptical about putting all that into 1 T5 4++ save model....when so many things in melee can kill him in 2 hits anyway.

 Jidmah wrote:
I just realized that you can use two burna bombers to clear a spot crash the third one into.

I guess the time has finally come to built the third set of burna bomms.

why didnt you have 3 to begin with ahaha I have 5 Dakkajets, 3 of each Bommer and then only 1 Wazbom. I loved the Ork planes in older editions.

PiñaColada wrote:
I doubt they'll let that stratagem work on a named character. That seems like it'll go away in an errata to me, but that's just a hunch obviously. On another note, if we get an extra warlord trait as a stratagem as well then that warboss can be a really effective missile without the usual drawback of giving up warlord kill.

Or if we get the two warlord traits on a single character instead then we can make a truly nasty warboss (I just hope we get one of those strats)

It’s not like warboss in bike w relic klaw and warlord trait is much worse? It actually might be better.

 Emicrania wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I think that stratagem is best with Kanz and deff Dredd. [Mek shop]

The plane stratagem, you are REALLY getting overexcited about it. It already exploded on a 4+, which with a reroll was already 75% of chance to explode. Now we pay 1 CP to be sure.
Good? Yeah
Broken? Not by far.

But you weren't really in control of when or if it exploded. People could ignore it, people could fail to kill it, you could fail on a reroll to explode it. Now you get to decide when it explodes, it's in your turn. The opponent doesn't have a turn to move out of the way and then shoot at it. You are taking out a lot of variables that could go wrong with this stratagem. It's not broken, but it is damn well pretty good. Codexes have ways to auto explode their vehicles but they have to die first and usually, they are already in your lines so it isn't as good. And mostly you'd only do it when you're in CC anyway. So Flyin' Headbutt is actually really good, and people are allowed to get excited about it as it gives us options.

By all means, don't make me curb your, or anybody's enthusiasm. I'm very happy to see some positive feedback in this 3d

HOWEVER
it takes one gotcha in order to screen correctly such a large base. I strongly encourage you guys to try it at home. Test things at home before being disappointed on the board. Always. From screening to new stratagems and strategies. And remember that you are paying 133 AND a CP in order to deal that damage. AND you fly in a straight line with the planes. AND you might go second. AND if you play it you know this going first and who's going second.

I played 7 months of freebooters itc and had some fairly good results with 3 planes BEFORE marines got godlike. It ain't s pretty sight getting shelled to death with some stalker rifle

So yeah, is a good tool, but calling it gamebreaking is BS.

Oi I never said it was gamebreaking im just saying its pretty damn good. 133pts and 1CP to do that much potential damage is big. It will more than likely earn his pts back. How many things in the Ork Codex can pull off as much work as a Flyin' Headbutt Burna-Bommer for the same amount of pts. Its not even solely about the raw damage output either, its how it makes your opponent react.

GW doesn't always nerf things because they're "bad". Sometimes they just do it because it's "not what we envisioned".

Also, to be fair, isn't the Biker Boss Legends anyway?

Probably, I'm just saying that GW allowing people to "upgrade" named characters doesn't seem like something they'd do. But honestly this strat is so insanely good that I think most of us would get it for 2CP without too much hesitation. Just an extra wound is a decent upgrade if you don't use up your WT to get it since going from 6 to 7 wounds means both damage 2 and 3 weapons (and d6) have a tougher time against you. Getting that, +1 attack and a 4++ is bonkers good and actually makes the warboss fearsome.

Super stoked, we got something amazing already. Bring on a few more good things and the rest can just be weird, fun orky stuff and I couldn't be happier

 flandarz wrote:
GW doesn't always nerf things because they're "bad". Sometimes they just do it because it's "not what we envisioned".

Also, to be fair, isn't the Biker Boss Legends anyway?

Nope, he still exists under the FW section for Orks. We'll see what his "revised' profile looks like once FW gets around to rereleasing the indexes, but until then most people are just using the old index rules as a placeholder.

is Snikrot a warboss? Could he use that new stratagem?

Yeah ive always wondered is the Bikerboss legends? Its under the FW section but has no FW rule.... Do we use the index rules or, currently as of yet, C2019 has made him an invalid option kind of like the Big Mek with Kustom Force Field?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
GW doesn't always nerf things because they're "bad". Sometimes they just do it because it's "not what we envisioned".

Also, to be fair, isn't the Biker Boss Legends anyway?

Nope, he still exists under the FW section for Orks. We'll see what his "revised' profile looks like once FW gets around to rereleasing the indexes, but until then most people are just using the old index rules as a placeholder.

Is a place holder legal though in tournament settings?

Neat.

Side note: whats the best Trait to pair with this (and, obviously, Da Killa Klaw)?

'Ard as Nailz makes improves your durability against S10, which encompasses a lot of the things you'd be concerned about.

Might is Right gives you +1S and A. The Attack is pretty good, but the Strength is kind of a wash (unless you're up against T7).

Brutal but Kunnin' let's you rerolls hit rolls in CC (like Ghaz) and gives you +1D if you're charged, were charged, etc.

Honestly, I think BbK might be better than MiR.

definitely BBK
That 4D is huge. Oneshots Cents and lays the hurtin' on any vehicles he catches.

Brutal but kunnin for warboss on bike... zhardsnark dont give him a warlord trait since he’s a named character and ES trait isn’t amazing.

But zhardsnark already has more atks and wounds then a normal warboss in bike and his klaw procs mortal wounds on 6.
9 wounds and 6 atks is a lot for a biker boss...

I think everyone should be happy that the saga isn’t just a waste of paper
So far it seems a pretty decent addition to an already strong army, gonna definatly start using my burna bombers again.

Yeah, these reveals are giving me motivation to finish off a bunch of projects that are currently lying around half-finished. I've got a squad of sentry-bot themed deff dreads (obviously a candidate for the speed job), a proper custom biker boss, and two planes (looted valk and whatever fish the tau bomber is named after) to get done in the next two weeks, now.

Feeling good about what we've seen so far, hopefully the rest doesn't disappoint too much (still, wouldn't be the worst PA even if we stopped here).

We got GHAZ you guys. A new, centrepiece, badass model. We did good, regardless.

It's legitimately hilarious that the best thing in the book...can't be used if you take Ghaz.

You couldn't make this stuff up if you try. The guy who said "nothing in the book makes Ghaz better" wasn't kidding: in fact, what's in the book makes Ghaz much worse!

 flandarz wrote:
Piston Job:

Most efficient on Dreadz, but they also need it the least.

Surprisingly decent on the Stompa, making it more likely you get the big boy into CC, but... it's still the Stompa, so pass.

Best unit to use it on is Kanz. For 300ish pts, you got fairly mobile a durable platform of 6 BS4+ Rokkitz. Take em in a Dreadwaagh and you could double-shoot and net an average of 7 hits. Not too shabby for 300 pts.

Conversely, you could not take KillaKanz which are...garbage and take 3 Megatrack scrapjets instead. same price, you get on average 12 Rokkitz at BS5 and 3 at BS4 (against vehicles) a turn as well as 36 big shoota shots, half of which are at BS4. Plus, they are base movement 10 and are better in CC in my opinion. Not to mention, if you take them in a FreeBoota detachment its fairly easy to get them +1 BS. Suddenly you have significantly more dakka and just as accurate...some of which is MORE accurate. In my opinion, much better bang for your buck.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
warboss is gonna have so much Cp dumped on him...

1 for Da Biggest Boss
1 for Relic
1 for Extra Warlord Trait (if its a thing)

And thats just the building part, nevermind the during the turn stuff.

Somehow i feel skeptical about putting all that into 1 T5 4++ save model....when so many things in melee can kill him in 2 hits anyway.

My warboss is going to be running around with Da Killa Klaw, Da Biggest Boss, Brutal but Kunnin, and he is going to have a dedicated weirdboy to put Fists of Gork on him. Suddenly my Warboss is running around as a 80pt Knight Destroyer. 7 Attacks at S 18, rerolling hits and wounds, -3 AP doing 4dmg per wound. Up to 28dmg in CC and that is before you use the strat to let him fight twice, either because he died or he survived and gets to swing again.

We literally have a 80pt character who can theoretically one shot primarchs.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
We got GHAZ you guys. A new, centrepiece, badass model. We did good, regardless.

100%. This guy right here, this guy gets it.

We got amazing new buggy models a while ago and now we've got a jaw-dropping new Ghaz model. I'm happy. And if they follow the usual pattern of only previewing the relatively mediocre stuff, and this is what they're showing, well...we'll soon have good rules as well as a sweet new model to celebrate.

Hey all,

Our Chief Krumpin' Warboss posted his thoughts on the Orks reveal. You can check them out at the site below.

Dustin went 5-1 at LVO and took 58th place this year piloting the Green Tide.

https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com/saga-of-the-beast-preview-faction-focus-orks/

Haha, it didn't even occur to me that you can use tremor shells on him. Poor Ghaz, destined to be the biggest joke in 40k. What a kick in da teef.

I don't think MSJs really need the +3" and reroll Advance.

As for the CC part: 6 Kanz can get 30 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 5s. 3 MSJs get 12 S8 AP-2 Dd3 attacks hitting on 4s. The former gets an average of 10 hits while the latter gets an average of 6. Against T7, the former nets 5 Wounds, and the latter 4 Wounds. So, the Kanz will be *slightly* better in CC on average, though I bet the Spiked Ram evens things out pretty nicely.

I didn't say you should field Kanz just because they can get this. Just that they're the best unit to use it on, as they gain the most benefit from it.

 flandarz wrote:
I don't think MSJs really need the +3" and reroll Advance.

As for the CC part: 6 Kanz can get 30 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 5s. 3 MSJs get 12 S8 AP-2 Dd3 attacks hitting on 4s. The former gets an average of 10 hits while the latter gets an average of 6. Against T7, the former nets 5 Wounds, and the latter 4 Wounds. So, the Kanz will be *slightly* better in CC on average, though I bet the Spiked Ram evens things out pretty nicely.

I didn't say you should field Kanz just because they can get this. Just that they're the best unit to use it on, as they gain the most benefit from it.

I'd probably still toss it on Deff Dreads. I think they overall net more hits (3 CC dreads should net out to 12 hits at higher str and potentially AP and damage), they have 'Ere we go, and get other Klan kultures the Kans won't get.

I don't blame ya. Unless we get a Grot Subkultur that would make Kanz better, they definitely ain't a competitive choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I had considered maybe running them with Big Shootaz at 190ish pts and seeing if maybe that would help, but they really ain't fast enough to get into CC, even with +3" and a Wartrike nearby to let them advance and charge, and, even with their 4+, the Shootaz ain't gonna do nothing worth the cost of bringing them.

 office_waaagh wrote:
Yeesh, everyone is so down on Ghaz.

He's fine. Not "add him to any army and he makes that army better," but "if you want to play him and you build around him you're not really gimping yourself." Build around him to take advantage of what he brings to the table and he can work. He's probably not going to be showing up on any top tables but he's also not going to be an automatic ticket to the bottom tables either. Unless you're really gunning for an overall win at a bigger event there's probably no reason not to bring him if you've got the models to take advantage of his buffs and he appeals to your play style.

I want to give him a go with two foot bosses, one with da killa klaw and the other with da lukky stick. Not much survives getting hit by that.

(And yes, I am an incorrigible optimist)

I'm very optimistic. I'm optimistic that I can spend the money for that boxset elsewhere, and I'm optimistic that I can build a far better army with other units. I'm optistic that it will lead to far greater flexibity with far less hassle.

That makes me a lot more chipper than having to deal with a word salad that creates headaches for me and requires me to paint my army into a corner. In fact, I'm divine about the whole thing. I've been waiting for Ork's to get an invulnerable save on a warboss since 6th edition neutered the Cybork body. Over the moon about that and I didn't even expect it.

Am I doing it right?

tulun wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I don't think MSJs really need the +3" and reroll Advance.

As for the CC part: 6 Kanz can get 30 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 5s. 3 MSJs get 12 S8 AP-2 Dd3 attacks hitting on 4s. The former gets an average of 10 hits while the latter gets an average of 6. Against T7, the former nets 5 Wounds, and the latter 4 Wounds. So, the Kanz will be *slightly* better in CC on average, though I bet the Spiked Ram evens things out pretty nicely.

I didn't say you should field Kanz just because they can get this. Just that they're the best unit to use it on, as they gain the most benefit from it.

I'd probably still toss it on Deff Dreads. I think they overall net more hits (3 CC dreads should net out to 12 hits at higher str and potentially AP and damage), they have 'Ere we go, and get other Klan kultures the Kans won't get.

Um yeah 7"+1"+3" + 1+D6" reroll.

And if you advance with evil sunz you're firing at the same ballistic skill as a damn kan.

Add +1 to charge and reroll charge range, good night. Dreads are way more intriguing than kanz unless they get grot clan bonuses that outweigh clan abilities.

I have a feeling we’re going to be extremely crunched for CP. we get a lot but also have good stratagems

Issue with using it on Dreadz is that Tellyport exists. That's the optimal way to drop your Dreadz (they generally just get shot to death if you don't), so the movement doesn't help them much. Kanz can't be Tellyported, so again, they make better use of the 3" and reroll advance buff.

 Billagio wrote:
I have a feeling we’re going to be extremely crunched for CP. we get a lot but also have good stratagems

Honestly, anything that gives a viable alternative to the dull-as-dog-poop "more dakka shoot twice" that everything is built around right now...

Though the idea of dreads getting first turn charge is rather wonderful. Just have a wartrike wandering behind a unit of piston equiped evil suns dreads and thats a minimum 12 inch move/advance with rerolls on the advance.

 deffrekka wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I just realized that you can use two burna bombers to clear a spot crash the third one into.

I guess the time has finally come to built the third set of burna bomms.

why didnt you have 3 to begin with ahaha I have 5 Dakkajets, 3 of each Bommer and then only 1 Wazbom. I loved the Ork planes in older editions.

I have three jets which are fully magnetized to build into any plane. I just haven't built the burna bommer load-out three times because I never had the urge to field three - and I pre-ordered those planes when they were released

 flandarz wrote:
Issue with using it on Dreadz is that Tellyport exists. That's the optimal way to drop your Dreadz (they generally just get shot to death if you don't), so the movement doesn't help them much. Kanz can't be Tellyported, so again, they make better use of the 3" and reroll advance buff.

You can start dredds on the board if your are running 6-9 of them as deathskulls. They don’t go down that easily. The move thing can be good in certain situations but as orks, we need to save cp for dealing damage imho, or for green tide and such. Or for making a super warboss now hah hah. Spending1 cp for faster dredds, if you factor everything in... I doubt it will be often done, imho

yukishiro1 wrote:
Haha, it didn't even occur to me that you can use tremor shells on him. Poor Ghaz, destined to be the biggest joke in 40k. What a kick in da teef.

I'm takin them teef to da bank. Ghaz teef, gotcha Ghaz teef here. One Ghaz toof for a Burna Bomba!

 TedNugent wrote:
I'm very optimistic. I'm optimistic that I can spend the money for that boxset elsewhere, and I'm optimistic that I can build a far better army with other units. I'm optistic that it will lead to far greater flexibity with far less hassle.

That makes me a lot more chipper than having to deal with a word salad that creates headaches for me and requires me to paint my army into a corner. In fact, I'm divine about the whole thing. I've been waiting for Ork's to get an invulnerable save on a warboss since 6th edition neutered the Cybork body. Over the moon about that and I didn't even expect it.

Am I doing it right?

I...think so?

I'm having a hard time parsing your writing, so I don't know if I understand which parts are sincere and which parts are intended to be sarcastic. But if you're happy then yes, you are doing it right.

I take it from what I can understand that you want to buy the boxset from an alternative source, but not actually use Ghaz in games because you don't want to play the type of army that would synergize well with him. If this is the case, and this is what makes you happy, and you are excited or optimistic at the prospect of doing this, then you are indeed still doing it right.

Another interpretation is that you don't intend to buy the boxset because owning the model doesn't appeal to you, and you don't want to own models that are not optimized for use in games with the other units of the army you intend to play. Once again, if you are happy and looking forward to doing this, then you are yet again doing it right.

If your phrase "word salad" is intended to imply that what I wrote previously was unintelligible, then I apologize if my effort at idiomatic speech has created confusion. My intended meaning was as follows: If one wishes to use Ghazghkull in a game, and one's objective is to win that game, then ideally one should design the rest of the army to take advantage of Ghazghkull's abilities. Such an army will have a reasonable, if not maximal, prospect of success. If one does not wish to use Ghazghkull in games, one is under no obligation to do so, of course.

Issue is that the same armies that would synergize well with Ghaz will do the same with an 80pt Warboss, meaning you get an extra 200 pts to spend on other stuff. And that Warboss will be able to match or exceed Ghaz in every relevant way. So even if you could field an army with a "reasonable" chance of success with Ghaz, you could field the exact same army with the Warboss, and include almost a full unit of Boyz on top of it, increasing your odds of success.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

addnid wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
Issue with using it on Dreadz is that Tellyport exists. That's the optimal way to drop your Dreadz (they generally just get shot to death if you don't), so the movement doesn't help them much. Kanz can't be Tellyported, so again, they make better use of the 3" and reroll advance buff.

You can start dredds on the board if your are running 6-9 of them as deathskulls. They don’t go down that easily. The move thing can be good in certain situations but as orks, we need to save cp for dealing damage imho, or for green tide and such. Or for making a super warboss now hah hah. Spending1 cp for faster dredds, if you factor everything in... I doubt it will be often done, imho

A 6++ really ain't gonna do much to keep them around. They're nearly 100 pts a model, and I'd, personally, not want to risk that on a 16.6% chance to not get destroyed. I'm also not sure if you could use the Stratagem for a Kustom Job more than once; if so your opponent will take the fast ones out first. If not, then you spent 3 CP to do this. Not sure if that's a great idea.

 office_waaagh wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I'm very optimistic. I'm optimistic that I can spend the money for that boxset elsewhere, and I'm optimistic that I can build a far better army with other units. I'm optistic that it will lead to far greater flexibity with far less hassle.

That makes me a lot more chipper than having to deal with a word salad that creates headaches for me and requires me to paint my army into a corner. In fact, I'm divine about the whole thing. I've been waiting for Ork's to get an invulnerable save on a warboss since 6th edition neutered the Cybork body. Over the moon about that and I didn't even expect it.

Am I doing it right?

I...think so?

I'm having a hard time parsing your writing, so I don't know if I understand which parts are sincere and which parts are intended to be sarcastic. But if you're happy then yes, you are doing it right.

I take it from what I can understand that you want to buy the boxset from an alternative source, but not actually use Ghaz in games because you don't want to play the type of army that would synergize well with him. If this is the case, and this is what makes you happy, and you are excited or optimistic at the prospect of doing this, then you are indeed still doing it right.

Another interpretation is that you don't intend to buy the boxset because owning the model doesn't appeal to you, and you don't want to own models that are not optimized for use in games with the other units of the army you intend to play. Once again, if you are happy and looking forward to doing this, then you are yet again doing it right.

If your phrase "word salad" is intended to imply that what I wrote previously was unintelligible, then I apologize if my effort at idiomatic speech has created confusion. My intended meaning was as follows: If one wishes to use Ghazghkull in a game, and one's objective is to win that game, then ideally one should design the rest of the army to take advantage of Ghazghkull's abilities. Such an army will have a reasonable, if not maximal, prospect of success. If one does not wish to use Ghazghkull in games, one is under no obligation to do so, of course.

When I said "word salad" I was referring to Ghaz's rules

 flandarz wrote:
Issue is that the same armies that would synergize well with Ghaz will do the same with an 80pt Warboss, meaning you get an extra 200 pts to spend on other stuff. And that Warboss will be able to match or exceed Ghaz in every relevant way. So even if you could field an army with a "reasonable" chance of success with Ghaz, you could field the exact same army with the Warboss, and include almost a full unit of Boyz on top of it, increasing your odds of success.

This is exactly it, yeah.

Ghaz might have *marginal* matchups where he's better. If he's magically aggressively costed (IE, his PL is for narrative play, not matched), we might have a conversation because he does bring some stuff to the table the warboss doesn't... but I think this is a pipe dream.

Overall, 80 point boss +200 points worth of stuff will outperform in a TAC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And let's be honest here.

It's not just Ghazkull, but probably:

1) Makari
2) A painboy
3) A detachment of Goffs that you don't give a gak about taking in competitive play.

The buffbot that requires an entire themed army to support his clunky buffs.

I was hoping for his Waagh to be faq to fix him however with the new strat that specifically doesn’t allow ghaz. Ghaz needs a lot more to even counter a generic warboss or warboss in bike w relic and strat is flat out better.

Ghaz now needs his waaagh fixed, makari and him to deploy together, and either all goff boys in his detachment to be skarboys or reduce teleport strat by 1. Ghaz need a lot more to be even table worthy. It’s a shame that strat can’t be used with ghaz as it limits ghaz use even more!

I think he needs less than that. He really just needs 3 things to become competitive.

1) fix his Waagh.
2) some option to help him deal with chaff/screen. Either a Klaw sweep (3 hit rolls per attack, at lower Strength, AP, and Damage) or a "this model does not need to Fallback to leave CC with enemy units that have the Infantry Keyword, and enemy models in these units do not restrict its movement during the Move Phase. When it does so, it deals 1d3 MWs to any units it moves over, but it must end it's movement in a valid position." Maybe both, as they seem appropriate to him
3) a "Ramming Speed" Stratagem or ability that works specifically for him.

How to fix Ghaz: do not buy. Done.

So, we should all buy the new Ghaz model but then play him as counts-as not-Ghaz with the new stratagem?

cody.d. wrote:
Though the idea of dreads getting first turn charge is rather wonderful. Just have a wartrike wandering behind a unit of piston equiped evil suns dreads and thats a minimum 12 inch move/advance with rerolls on the advance.

Iirc dreads become separate units after getting deployed

 Clang wrote:
So, we should all buy the new Ghaz model but then play him as counts-as not-Ghaz with the new stratagem?

Yup. Unless legends is not allowed in your game set-up.
Might be too big though, to be practical I mean.

My head is still working around the fact that we don't have a basic MA warboss datasheet in the codex.

The sad truth is that the best course of action would be not buying new Ghaz at all.

They need to realize that writing shoddy rules like this can break a beautiful models' back and ruin all the work their marketing has put into hyping it up.

It really feels like they are afraid of making orks (or any other xenos) too good, while they have no fears in that regard whatsoever when designing marines.

Well, so far, from all the new stuff we got 2 good strats which ain't half bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You will likely get cheaper ghaz 2d hand in a couple of months if there's no faq with serious buffs by that time.

 Jidmah wrote:
The sad truth is that the best course of action would be not buying new Ghaz at all.

They need to realize that writing shoddy rules like this can break a beautiful models' back and ruin all the work their marketing has put into hyping it up.

It really feels like they are afraid of making orks (or any other xenos) too good, while they have no fears in that regard whatsoever when designing marines.

This. We should really boycott him.

I don't think that's the move personally. I want to "reward" them for giving us a great model (I just want to own it). The rules are temporary in the sense that they can change (by errata or new edition, or strats) but this model is likely to stick around 10-15 years and if they see that Ork sculpts sell then they're inclined to make more (I hope).

The dream is that they realise no-one ever uses him in tournaments ITC or otherwise and balances him thereafter. It's a great model and everyone who wants to get it should buy it IMO and not hold out in some, most likely insignificant, protest towards the rules they gave him.

I'm getting 2 Ghaz models. feth boycotting him. GW taking all my money for such a hot model.

If you want his rules to improve petition GW via the appropriate channels (FAQ@gwplc.co.uk or whatever the email address posted earlier was).

I don't think GW are scared of Orks being competitive, I think they don't want to make all their new models too good because then people, such as myself, claim that they create rules with sales in mind. Ork models, given our Buggies that released and given Ghaz, are the exceptions that prove the rule. The alternative is simply that GW don't care enough to properly test Ork units so throw them out without really considering the competitive element. Likely they thought Ghaz is better than he is. I suspect all the new Ad Mech models will be ridiculous, given the love they are getting from GW at the moment. We've only got to look at their new tank for evidence of this.

 Jidmah wrote:
The sad truth is that the best course of action would be not buying new Ghaz at all.

They need to realize that writing shoddy rules like this can break a beautiful models' back and ruin all the work their marketing has put into hyping it up.

It really feels like they are afraid of making orks (or any other xenos) too good, while they have no fears in that regard whatsoever when designing marines.

They are not afraid to make Tau really good. Many top players say Tau is the next scarecrow, in ITC format anyway (dunno what top ETC players think). Even with the (very) few nerfs from the recent psychic awakening FAQ

Though if you were thinking about Shadowsun (kind of our Ghaz hah hah), yes they were apparently afraid to make her too good, as she is not featured in any top Tau list, as far as I know anyway.

A lot of conjecture here and a tad too much feelings already here.

Point being, Ghaz sucks on every level and we should step up as community and point out the problem to the company we are supporting.

PiñaColada wrote:
The rules are temporary in the sense that they can change (by errata or new edition, or strats)

In theory, yes. In reality, there a not a whole lot of datasheets that have been changed to improve the corresponding unit outside of model releases. This might very much be what Ghaz is for the next ten years.

but this model is likely to stick around 10-15 years and if they see that Ork sculpts sell then they're inclined to make more (I hope).

I think they have seen that ork sculpts sell with their buggy release, otherwise we wouldn't be having Ghaz right now.

The dream is that they realise no-one ever uses him in tournaments ITC or otherwise and balances him thereafter.

I heavily doubt so. GW is still green when it comes to monitoring and understanding the health of their game, and their obvious inaptitude when it comes to orks doesn't exactly help.
Today, we can reasonably expect them to catch and apply decent fixes to OP stuff in a fairly reasonable time frame, which is leagues from where they were three years ago.
But picking up weak units and helping and making them good again? They still try to fix those with heavy-handed point drops and sometimes a hit-or-miss stratagem. Bad units tend to stay bad units more often than not.

Unless there is some stratagem or specialist mob massively increasing the viability of foot-slogging boyz (and thus goff) or the Goff psychic power is completely insane (like fight twice), the new Thrakka with no changes is only slightly better than a pair of goff melee dreads, so he should cost about 180, not 280.

They've had plenty of chances to make burna boyz or the stompa playable, but that hasn't happened.

I don't really see why I should buy Ghaz now and hope that maybe he becomes playable later. Sure, maybe he's fine for a casual game or two, but if I'm playing causally I'm also playing fluffy and for me that means pure Evil Sunz because that's how my army is painted, and he's a Goff so...

Shame, it's a real nice model, I just don't have a use for it.

Been thinking on the clever talk spell. You could totally use it with a small detachment of mobile models such as deffkoptas. Tag a unit with unpleasent overwatch with the spell. Charge in the koptas then follow up with a non axe unit to actually kill the target or pin them down. Then fall back with the koptas and with the blood axe trait you can charge again on the next tagged unit.

Thoughts?

cody.d. wrote:
Been thinking on the clever talk spell. You could totally use it with a small detachment of mobile models such as deffkoptas. Tag a unit with unpleasent overwatch with the spell. Charge in the koptas then follow up with a non axe unit to actually kill the target or pin them down. Then fall back with the koptas and with the blood axe trait you can charge again on the next tagged unit.

Thoughts?

Add ramming speed and you have a castle breaker.

Yeah, that really could work. The fact that the blood axe power doesn't have a range is huge! Is there any deny that works regardless of range? The stratagem ones I know of still requires you to be within 24" of the psyker with a unit, so placing the weirdboy all the way back in the corner should make this nigh unstoppable. (Visible to the psyker shouldn't be too much of an issue, just put him on top of a ruin or some such).

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I don't think GW are scared of Orks being competitive, I think they don't want to make all their new models too good because then people, such as myself, claim that they create rules with sales in mind. Ork models, given our Buggies that released and given Ghaz, are the exceptions that prove the rule.

The rule has been proven to be wrong so often that it's really odd people still claim that - if you'd put the GW designers into an escape room which requires them to write good rules to escape, there is a high chance they'd starve.

The alternative is simply that GW don't care enough to properly test Ork units so throw them out without really considering the competitive element. Likely they thought Ghaz is better than he is. I suspect all the new Ad Mech models will be ridiculous, given the love they are getting from GW at the moment. We've only got to look at their new tank for evidence of this.

This is the exact thing I'm talking about. When they design something like sisters or marines or admech or CSM, they throw all these tiny synergies everywhere, mechanics that lock into each other and clever unit interactions. Like Phil Kelly did in the 4th edition ork codex.
It feels like they just don't care about those things when designing orks. Thrakka got +1S, +1 damage -1AP, +2" and more 4 wounds. They actually came up with a decent solution to not have him shot off the board in one turn and degradation is done well, too. Unlock him for all clans, slap 50 points on for all that and then it feels like he went straight from the drawing board into the book. Or they played him once and missed that he actually lost a lot along with his INFANTRY keyword. Or they caught it and came to the conclusion it wouldn't be too bad.

No matter which one it was, GW as a whole did not do a good job. So in my opinion, the only way to tell GW that they messed up is by not buying the product. Sadly, the amount of money I have is less than the cost of all models I still want to have. Right now, I'm really struggling whether to buy Ghaz or a model that I can enjoy playing on battlefield.

Well, at least PA looks decent. Rant over.

Ghaz is a disappointment, even if the model is a badass, we should hope we get more juicy stuff with the book.

Let's wait and see how much we should rant a week more

Ragnar leak shows a power level of 6. With his 10 attacks during the first turn confirmed.

Leaked profile on the rumors of PA.

Price comparison hurts...badly

It's hard to care about this release any more

I'm torn, its such a great model and I'm a Goff, How can I not have our Supreme leader? But I don't need More Megas or Nobs, and the marine crap I'll Give to a Friend who's out of work thanks to corona. I really shouldn't buy it, BUT I WANTS GHAZZ!

they havnt done anything to fix the wartrike so i highly doubt they'd fix ghaz.

I'm still buying the box. The nobz/manz actually would be useful for me anyway.

I dont play ITC/ETC so his faults are less noticable to me. Unless he works on his own though i probably wouldnt use him much just because Goff....stink....especially for vehicle heavy tactics.

You can drop him in a Deathskullz or Evil Sunz detachment without issue, so if you wanna run him, just clear like 300 pts (ugh) for the guy.

For me, that would basically mean dropping a naut or 15 lootas+3 koptas or 12 warbikers from a well working list. I'm not seeing it.

I’m buying ghaz boxset and maybe starting space marines finally....
I do this because GW doesn’t see bad ghaz sales as poor rules writing but simply poor ork sales and just doesn’t produce as much content for us if orks don’t sell...
ghaz is a great model that simply needs a few small rules tweaks to make decent... buy him and feedback...
I’m using the old ghaz model as the mega nob boss.
The new ghaz you can use as ghaz for fun or use as the strategem warboss if you’re cool with using a massive model.

The only cool thing with this ork box is the infiltrators are not tied to space wolves so you can use them in any marine army. Plus Ragnar will be easy to sell for a premium since his rules and pricing seem competitive which will make him an easy resell.

Perhaps Ghaz will be just 200 points, no more, and sod power levels. This would make him viable, though still not comp (because no using the warboss strat). we can dream, points haven’t leaked yet

Thomas Douch places second with green tide and two koptas: https://www.40kstats.com/rumbleinromford

Models are eternal. Rules aren't, and thats even more true now than ever before.

If you like Ghaz buy him. If hes unusable it won't last that long. Just like most OP stuff has been nerfed in the place of 6 months top. Many weaker things have became better.

And yeah, maybe is not a problem of being weak but of having rules being badly written. Until The Greater Good you could not put a Bullgryn in your Tempestus Scion detachment without losing your doctrines. They fixed it. I don't know why the feth they waited that long instead of doing a small FAQ but whatever. The point is: They change and fix things much faster than before

 Clang wrote:
So, we should all buy the new Ghaz model but then play him as counts-as not-Ghaz with the new stratagem?

No. Do not buy. He's too big to use as a proxy for anything

You could proxy him as a particularly fleshy Dread. :p

 TedNugent wrote:

 Clang wrote:
So, we should all buy the new Ghaz model but then play him as counts-as not-Ghaz with the new stratagem?

No. Do not buy. He's too big to use as a proxy for anything

eh i mena as a primary modeler/painter secondary game player even if he is not great I forsee getting him and getting 12-20 hours of enjoyment building and painting him and getting him just right.

as for proxy though he could proxy it seems as a dred

I'd think more a Gorkanaught proxy really,

More like a helbrute.
But what's actually forcing you to buy Ghaz now in hopes of his rules getting fixed rather than wait till he gets his rules fixed first and than buy?..

 Galas wrote:
Many weaker things have became better.

By all means, please do provide a list.

Until The Greater Good you could not put a Bullgryn in your Tempestus Scion detachment without losing your doctrines. They fixed it. I don't know why the feth they waited that long instead of doing a small FAQ but whatever. The point is: They change and fix things much faster than before

Why wouldn't I just buy Ghaz 3 years from now when they've fixed him as fast as the did those Bullgryns?

If Orks sales do well, they are more likely to do more Ork releases in general.

The only way boycotting works is if they know *why* you're boycotting the model. So, I would suggest if you go that route, at least send them feedback you aren't interested in the model specifically because of rules, and would buy it instantly if it were remotely competitive.

Just buy models that are useful instead. Buy armfulls of buggies. They will get the message and correct his rules. Then buy.

In fact, the same thing happened with buggies. Sales were not up to scratch, they fixed it in chap approved and people bought enough for squadrons. I see your point but I'd rather they see interest in Orks bread and butter. We have plenty of reasons to buy new kits, for example Ork flyers, Loota boxes, Deff Dreada, Gorka/Morkanauta, FW bikerboss, Defkilla Wartrike, etc.

Plus I do not want to encourage them to package Space wolves in my boxes.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Many weaker things have became better.

By all means, please do provide a list.

The entirety of the grey knights codex, all the Tau options that nobody was taking? (Literally all the not-relics for units are for the weaker options like railgun broadsides and hammerheads, or ion cannon riptides, etc...) Tyranid Warriors? Thats from the top of my head.

Let's be real: the box set Ghaz is a part of is gonna sell well. Even if no Ork players buy it, we're outnumbered heavily by Marine players and they're definitely gonna pick it up.

Birdsongs list....
My back hurts just at reading that list....

Not all the Tau options. *looks at Kroot*.

Think boycotting the model is dumb, personally. Its a beautiful model and deserves it's purchase. Rules are secondary.

That said, might accidentally be boycotting it because I cant find anyone to split the box with. The SW side is hilariously bad and not worth it. FML

 flandarz wrote:
Not all the Tau options. *looks at Kroot*.

Half the Greater Good stratagems are for Kroot units so at least GW realizes what units need the more help. And on the great scheme of things Kroots aren't bad. They are so cheap that then always are a good inversion, even Krootox riders. The problem with Kroots is that in the most competitive tau builds they don't have a place.

Yeah in a weird twist of events the marine half of a duo box is pretty crap.
Willing to bet Ragnar is a proper beast though. The few rumors we got for him already sound typical bullcrap marine strong for cheap (10 attacks at PL6? really? even if he's just S5 theres no way that weapon is less than AP2 2D knowing marines so he'll sweep elites very well)
Space wolves are sorta rare though, ive only met 2 of them ever and 1 had to sell his army for bills reasons (sadface). The other said exactly this "Yeah im gonna back out on going halfsies, this is insanely expensive for a clearly better-for-ork bang for your buck" - note that he actually does not want the incessors or whatever the regular marines were, just ragnar.

Meaning i got a few marines to start my slamander army with i guess lol (i can easily kitbash the wolf out of Ragnar to make an awesome-posed captain instead)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah in a weird twist of events the marine half of a duo box is pretty crap.
Willing to bet Ragnar is a proper beast though. The few rumors we got for him already sound typical bullcrap marine strong for cheap (10 attacks at PL6? really? even if he's just S5 theres no way that weapon is less than AP2 2D knowing marines so he'll sweep elites very well)
Space wolves are sorta rare though, ive only met 2 of them ever and 1 had to sell his army for bills reasons (sadface). The other said exactly this "Yeah im gonna back out on going halfsies, this is insanely expensive for a clearly better-for-ork bang for your buck" - note that he actually does not want the incessors or whatever the regular marines were, just ragnar.

Meaning i got a few marines to start my slamander army with i guess lol (i can easily kitbash the wolf out of Ragnar to make an awesome-posed captain instead)

Hes leaked baby.

Looking like 120 points for this bad boy. Legitimately seems good to me, but I don't play SW.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/fko4gp/leaked_ragnar_blackmane_rules/

He's AP4 (with a chainsword lol) and D2 S7 per Valrak.

Also has good auras for CC synergy and will likely be fun to play with a few diff army builds. Primaris keyword limits his transports though.

yup, sounds about right.
Be surprised if any wolf player doesnt use him. Got all these new shiny rules and statboosts and yet for some reason went DOWN in points, while ghaz got more of a side-grade that would have been pretty good (not amazing but good) if he remained 235pts or got slightly cheaper but instead went UP!
Typical GW. Just typical.... its boyz all over again!

 koooaei wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Though the idea of dreads getting first turn charge is rather wonderful. Just have a wartrike wandering behind a unit of piston equiped evil suns dreads and thats a minimum 12 inch move/advance with rerolls on the advance.

Iirc dreads become separate units after getting deployed

Yes but this strat is used before deployment most likely. You are upgrading the unit for having a mek workshop.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yup, sounds about right.
Be surprised if any wolf player doesnt use him. Got all these new shiny rules and statboosts and yet for some reason went DOWN in points, while ghaz got more of a side-grade that would have been pretty good (not amazing but good) if he remained 235pts or got slightly cheaper but instead went UP!
Typical GW. Just typical.... its boyz all over again!

My SW buddy is not a fan actually. Think it's because he's walking.

Think it really depends on if they get some melee centric primaris for his POV.

Yeah i mentioned that to my SW friend when i showed him those rules.
Primaris keyword makes a mobility issue, but he's absolutely disgusting for that cost otherwise. That is literally his only downside, and its not like SW dont have access to primaris transports (they just generally dont want them)
Primaris still dont have a proper melee unit...oddly enough...to go with him

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah i mentioned that to my SW friend when i showed him those rules.
Primaris keyword makes a mobility issue, but he's absolutely disgusting for that cost otherwise. That is literally his only downside, and its not like SW dont have access to primaris transports (they just generally dont want them)
Primaris still dont have a proper melee unit...oddly enough...to go with him

Yup. I would say Ragnar is *very close* to being amazing, which might just be a release of new Primaris models that wanna punch stuff (which is probably coming sometime).

Compare to this Thraka, who is miles upon miles away from being good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sigh.

Why is GW so bad at xenos?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/18/space-wolves-new-rules-for-a-new-sagagw-homepage-post-3/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40kwolves180320&fbclid=IwAR1qElyKaDM0GIKtND5OqZJ18pIDdArw3OeOlt2KE4jOrQP7jh_EDBc5ac8

pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

Imagine smacking a fight twice strat on top of that...

I don't know if they have that though.

Ragnar is like the ultimate counter charge if he walks alone. If he’s in a répulsor, then he will be able to charge turn 2. Seems really good, perhaps not broken good though because of the total investment

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

Am i wrong in reading it as they would get both the exploding on 4+ and the exploding on 6+ in assult doctorine since they are seperate rules?

I took a quick look. So, they get the Goff Kultur, but better. Then, for 1 CP can make it even MORE better. Then a 0CP Stratagem to gain 1 CP everytime you kill a character? I guess it's safe to say that Orkz got the short end of the stick in this release. Even our "make a Warboss into Ghaz" stratagem pales in comparison.

bulsterousdingo wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

Am i wrong in reading it as they would get both the exploding on 4+ and the exploding on 6+ in assult doctorine since they are seperate rules?

considering they dont mention it doesnt stack, and theyre not affected by stuff such as the "ignore a wound" faq, i would wager yes a roll of a 6 causes 2 hits if that strat is active.
Such bullcrap.

And this is a surprise How? Of Course the Marines Got better than Us, We're just Filthy Xenos

What we would do for a strat that on a 4+ more hits get generated.

Our warboss would become unstoppable.

I wouldn't exactly say that they have a better Goff kultur than we do, keep in mind the assault doctrine doesn't take place until T3, which means they don't likely have fresh units that are able to fully take advantage of those exploding hits, or they've basically ceded board control if they've been holding some of those units in Deep Strike. If the 1CP for the 4+ procs for exploding hits was for a unit, I would agree that's broken as feth, but it's only for characters so I'd give that to them. I have to say it is pretty ridiculous that SW got the first legit 0CP stratagem, and it's not even tied to characters getting the final blow, so that's kinda dumb IMO.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah in a weird twist of events the marine half of a duo box is pretty crap.
Willing to bet Ragnar is a proper beast though. The few rumors we got for him already sound typical bullcrap marine strong for cheap (10 attacks at PL6? really? even if he's just S5 theres no way that weapon is less than AP2 2D knowing marines so he'll sweep elites very well)
Space wolves are sorta rare though, ive only met 2 of them ever and 1 had to sell his army for bills reasons (sadface). The other said exactly this "Yeah im gonna back out on going halfsies, this is insanely expensive for a clearly better-for-ork bang for your buck" - note that he actually does not want the incessors or whatever the regular marines were, just ragnar.

Meaning i got a few marines to start my slamander army with i guess lol (i can easily kitbash the wolf out of Ragnar to make an awesome-posed captain instead)

Yeah it's really an odd hole they put themselves in. Lore wise, kind of makes sense Ragnar went with the new sneak marines. But box wise, I dont know if anyone actually wants them. No upgrade sprue for the legion either sadly. The tooth and claw box did both primaris and SW beautiful justice, where you got an amazing mix of different things. Here it's just... here's two kits... save $5-10 USD. Congrats. Ork side however you're basically paying for just the meganobz and half the nobs and getting everything else for free. Splitting the box down the middle is amazing for them. Asked a few friends, attempting to split the box to where the discount is even for both of us (me paying more), and even still... not a single person wants Ragnar enough despite how awesome he is. I'm sure some people like the new marines, just no one around here.

btw conspiricy moment. Anyone else think they're trying to get rid of their older kits asap? The rumor engine looks like parts of nobz or meganobz, as far as I can tell.

 flandarz wrote:
Let's be real: the box set Ghaz is a part of is gonna sell well. Even if no Ork players buy it, we're outnumbered heavily by Marine players and they're definitely gonna pick it up.

Then that's a cheap Thrakka+MANz on ebay for me. I win either way

Vineheart01 wrote:pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

bulsterousdingo wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

Am i wrong in reading it as they would get both the exploding on 4+ and the exploding on 6+ in assult doctorine since they are seperate rules?

The article implies it does stack ("when combined with savage fury"). Some quick and dirty excel math hammer gets Ragnar at an average 17.5 hits (mean 17.49, median and mode both 17), with about a 12% chance of scoring 20 or more hits, for 1cp.

**edit** Nice low power rating for Ragnar too, if you want to chop a knight in half with seeking a saga. Ghaz's 4 wound limit will definitely be the only defence in the rematch lol

 Jidmah wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
Let's be real: the box set Ghaz is a part of is gonna sell well. Even if no Ork players buy it, we're outnumbered heavily by Marine players and they're definitely gonna pick it up.

Then that's a cheap Thrakka+MANz on ebay for me. I win either way

I doubt it would be cheap. From everything Ive seen secondhand most people even when picking something up from a box set, will list the retail price of each unit and then offer a discount from there. I've seen so many people list AOBR kopters as being retail 35.00 a pop, and I'm like come on...those things are maybe 10.

AOBR is out of print though. I have bought 15 koptas for 3-5€ a piece back in 5th.
You can also get the DI death guard really cheap right now, it's just the marines that are expensive. Even the buggies from speed freeks were cheaper than they are from GW now.

yeah back when aobr was in stock i got like 15 koptas for....2-4 bucks each?
Theyre not in print now so i wouldnt be surprised at all to see them hyked up.
(especially since the one that IS in stock is fugly as gak)

Eh, I bought the ork half of AOBR in August for 40.00 so, anytime I see it more than that, I'm critical.

Keramory wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah in a weird twist of events the marine half of a duo box is pretty crap.
Willing to bet Ragnar is a proper beast though. The few rumors we got for him already sound typical bullcrap marine strong for cheap (10 attacks at PL6? really? even if he's just S5 theres no way that weapon is less than AP2 2D knowing marines so he'll sweep elites very well)
Space wolves are sorta rare though, ive only met 2 of them ever and 1 had to sell his army for bills reasons (sadface). The other said exactly this "Yeah im gonna back out on going halfsies, this is insanely expensive for a clearly better-for-ork bang for your buck" - note that he actually does not want the incessors or whatever the regular marines were, just ragnar.

Meaning i got a few marines to start my slamander army with i guess lol (i can easily kitbash the wolf out of Ragnar to make an awesome-posed captain instead)

Yeah it's really an odd hole they put themselves in. Lore wise, kind of makes sense Ragnar went with the new sneak marines. But box wise, I dont know if anyone actually wants them. No upgrade sprue for the legion either sadly. The tooth and claw box did both primaris and SW beautiful justice, where you got an amazing mix of different things. Here it's just... here's two kits... save $5-10 USD. Congrats. Ork side however you're basically paying for just the meganobz and half the nobs and getting everything else for free. Splitting the box down the middle is amazing for them. Asked a few friends, attempting to split the box to where the discount is even for both of us (me paying more), and even still... not a single person wants Ragnar enough despite how awesome he is. I'm sure some people like the new marines, just no one around here.

btw conspiricy moment. Anyone else think they're trying to get rid of their older kits asap? The rumor engine looks like parts of nobz or meganobz, as far as I can tell.

I ended up just offering him Ragnar for 25 since i plan to do Salamanders eventually and technically dont need ragnar (would have to heavily kitbash him). Didnt even hesitate on taking that offer lol. I'd be more reluctant to buy the box mostly on my own if i didnt actually have a need for more nobz/manz lol. I always find myself wanting a full 10x MANz or 2x5 when i try to use them at all...and i have 7 lol (5 old metals and 2 plastics, third plastic is a bigmek)

The new rumor engine stuff is most likely a new mek (probably kff mek). That boot is a regular boy-sized foot it looks like and the spinning blade thing is way too small to be a bigchoppa. The KFF mek does have a choppa normally so most likely thats his melee weapon (the old official model had some weird gear-wrench thing). Alternatively it could be the rumored Tankbusta/Kommando box but i still think its a new bigmek.

I just wanna know at this point of PA will contain the datasheets we're missing for the Biker and KFF Mek.

It would just end any confusion.

Bikerboss definitely not since thats listed under Forgeworld (unless GW for some reason changes their mind on that).
KFF Mek i'd be rather livid if they didnt.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Bikerboss definitely not since thats listed under Forgeworld (unless GW for some reason changes their mind on that).
KFF Mek i'd be rather livid if they didnt.

Has anyone sent an email about this?

Hasn’t been an issue for when I’ve played but I’d like to legally field whatever. If an option costs more, can’t do a certain stratagem, whatever.

Ragnar is somewhat problematic because he's primaris on foot which is a bad combo for a close combat character. Otherwise he is awesome.

Unlike Ghaz, who wishes he had only one large flaw, instead of...well...pretty much all of them that exist in 8th edition.

Eh. Ghaz really only has two big issues. 1) without advance+charge or an improved charge chance (such as with Ramming Speed) he's too difficult to deliver to what you want to kill, and 2) he doesn't have any options for dealing with chaff targets. Even with FoG and in his lowest Bracket, 9 attacks just isn't enough, even when you're rerolling 1s to hit. And his gun is a joke which will barely kill 2 or 3 Guardsmen. He needs a sweep on his Klaw, or a "move over Infantry models" rule.

Fix those two things and Ghaz works just fine.

He still costs as 3 warboss....

Yea Ghaz' has a few problems as I see it;
1. Speed/maneuverability - movement 7 and not benefitting from his own WAAAAAGGGHH! is only part of the problem. Being a monster massively restricts his board presence and speed.
2. Lack of damage - specifically lack of any chaff clearing ability but 5 attacks is hardly setting the world on fire and his gun is barely worth rolling (you'll normally be hitting on 6s as you'll advance I guess).
3. Not really that durable - the 4 wounds a phase ability does not convey anywhere near the protection of 'character', even if his wounds have increased. Certainly not with 12 wounds.
4. Expensive - 250-280pts is a lot for an Ork.
5. Pointless synergies - most of his buffs make units that kill really well kill even better. K. Why am I paying for this?

Now if he only had one of these issues, we could probably play him. As it stands though he's just a straight nerf to your own force. I'll still try and make him work but I can't see it, personally.

This is true, but he does have some good stuff and gives more than a single Warboss in regards to his buffs (and the one Makari gives while he's around). I'd personally price him closer to 250, even with a Waagh fix and a chaff option.

Edit: of course, the biggest problem is that the rerolls and FnP only apply to Goff units, and Goff is pretty subpar.

If ghaz was bigger they could give him knight rules... titanic feet, move over infantry, fall back and shoot/charge... but he’s not there yet

I can see him at best getting stick bomb flinga for an additional 2d6 str 3 ap- shooting... to clear chaff. He’s modeled with automatic stikkbomb thrower after all but it’s probably a chukka not flinga

That's literally worse than Mork's Roar, unless it auto hits it's worthless. Though, I guess it'd make sense for GW to give that to him.

I do agree he's too big to step over infantry. It's why I suggested he use a "bum rush" approach, where infantry don't hinder his movement and any infantry he moves through take 1d3 MWs. Chaff is far less of an issue when you can just bulldoze through them, and it'd be very thematic for Ghaz as well.

Just re-read our preview and the "Specialist Mobs" reads to me like a Vigilus style detachment where we pay a CP (or multiple?) to get access to the certain benefits of the Specialist Mob.

The example is as follows;

Specialist Mob - Pyromaniacs
Subkulture - Arsonists - free bonus to clan kulture?

That's how I read it anyway.

There might be particular relics and warlord traits connected to the specialist mob. I suspect one of the specialist mobs is "Grot Revolushunary Committee".

Hopefully the Specialist Mob is free/cheap/offers other benefits because I'm gonna be hella salty if we have to pay CP to get cool stuff while other factions get them for nothing.

quite frankly i was surprised they didnt give him a kicking attack. The model looks like it has freaking talon claws on it.

 flandarz wrote:
That's literally worse than Mork's Roar, unless it auto hits it's worthless. Though, I guess it'd make sense for GW to give that to him.

I do agree he's too big to step over infantry. It's why I suggested he use a "bum rush" approach, where infantry don't hinder his movement and any infantry he moves through take 1d3 MWs. Chaff is far less of an issue when you can just bulldoze through them, and it'd be very thematic for Ghaz as well.

I'd take the mechanic a step further, he can charge anything within 12" and ignore any models T4 and below in the way to do so.



My initial thoughts on this, Bloodaxe weird boy in outrider det with 3 base deffkoptas. Use one to ramming speed targets, follow in with Evil Sunz mobs, choose kopta to fight last out of your chargees so that you don't get any interupts.
That's 152 points to turn off over watch on key units and cancel interrupts for upto 3 turns.

on one hand im glad we got an anti-overwatch but im also mad its locked to a lack luster kulture.

Really freaking weird its only limited by visible to the caster.

Yeah I can see that getting FAQed, is there even another psychic power in the game that has unlimited range?

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah I can see that getting FAQed, is there even another psychic power in the game that has unlimited range?

There were several new Tyranid psychic powers that don't specify a range, including one worded like Clever Talk

Lurking Maws has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, select one enemy unit that is visible to this psyker. Until the end of the turn, when resolving an attack against that unit made by a model in a friendly JORMUNGANDR unit that was set up on the battlefield this turn, you can re-roll the hit roll. This psychic power cannot be manifested in the first battle round.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Just re-read our preview and the "Specialist Mobs" reads to me like a Vigilus style detachment where we pay a CP (or multiple?) to get access to the certain benefits of the Specialist Mob.

The example is as follows;

Specialist Mob - Pyromaniacs
Subkulture - Arsonists - free bonus to clan kulture?

That's how I read it anyway.

There might be particular relics and warlord traits connected to the specialist mob. I suspect one of the specialist mobs is "Grot Revolushunary Committee".

Hopefully the Specialist Mob is free/cheap/offers other benefits because I'm gonna be hella salty if we have to pay CP to get cool stuff while other factions get them for nothing.

Based on what other armies have been getting in psychic awakening, I imagine it's going to be a "make your own klan" thing, where you give up having a clan to get one or two of these specialist mob subkultures.

"Sometimes Orks throw off the constraints of their Clan and instead group together with other like-minded greenskins."

Come to think of it... Our 2 good strategems: one that forces you to not include ghaz and another one that forces you to remove a lovely plane off the board turn1.

At first I was like: hell yeah, I'm gona finally have a reason to buy this awesome burnabomber. But than I was like: ...And than put it away after it's first movement phase... I'd rather convert a cheap ww2 la2 plane.

As if gw is trying to tell us: "we don't need your pesky greenskin teef".

There are already a bunch of bommers on the web painted up like japanese WW2 planes

In all honesty though, you'd probably want to bring two or three anyways and just crash the one that survives/is in the best position.

If you're going second and find your opponent is not focusing the bommers, you might even hold up on crashing one until the first bombs are dropped.

I've run multiple bombers before and can tell that their peak effectiveness is t1. They're pretty unwieldy with this huge bases, 90 degrees pivots and the need to actually fly over their targets to drop a bomb.
So, I'd not hold my breath for good explosion position after the first turn.

Eh, I usually run them to bomb a hole into screens so my warbikers can tag valuable targets with their ~35" charge.

Also, forcing your opponent to both screen out deep strikers while leaving no holes for a plane to land and capturing objectives is quite a task.

The beauty of stratagems is that you don't have to use them - just the threat of being able to drop one of the planes at any times is already valuable all by itself. And it's not like having a dakkajet drop for d3 wounds is something an army can shrug off. Exploding tanks have swung around the game for me more than once.

 r_squared wrote:


My initial thoughts on this, Bloodaxe weird boy in outrider det with 3 base deffkoptas. Use one to ramming speed targets, follow in with Evil Sunz mobs, choose kopta to fight last out of your chargees so that you don't get any interupts.
That's 152 points to turn off over watch on key units and cancel interrupts for upto 3 turns.

You could also do this with a Chinork.

It’s nice cause it can deep strike anywhere, it still has ere we go, and it can hold 10 models from any clan. It also can auto advance 8” if it starts on the board.

Could have potential but I dunno. Deff koptas are pretty vulnerable. You might need to have a trike so they can do a really big charge cause they’ll probably need to hide.

tulun wrote:

 r_squared wrote:


My initial thoughts on this, Bloodaxe weird boy in outrider det with 3 base deffkoptas. Use one to ramming speed targets, follow in with Evil Sunz mobs, choose kopta to fight last out of your chargees so that you don't get any interupts.
That's 152 points to turn off over watch on key units and cancel interrupts for upto 3 turns.

You could also do this with a Chinork.

It’s nice cause it can deep strike anywhere, it still has ere we go, and it can hold 10 models from any clan. It also can auto advance 8” if it starts on the board.

Could have potential but I dunno. Deff koptas are pretty vulnerable. You might need to have a trike so they can do a really big charge cause they’ll probably need to hide.

Except they can also "deepstrike". Koptas might be optimal since if they survive you could retreat, shoot and then charge something else for a second round of cheesiness (after casting again the power). It's also a fairly cheap trick

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:


Except they can also "deepstrike". Koptas might be optimal since if they survive you could retreat, shoot and then charge something else for a second round of cheesiness (after casting again the power). It's also a fairly cheap trick

Koptas edge thing is alright. You might find it quite limiting in where they can actually strike.

The same argument you made is exactly true of a Chinork lol. It's a flyer too.

Now we just need to hoarde a bunch of cp

Chinork (by itself) would be the cheaper option, but it's also less durable and less killy. So it's a give and take


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We're Orkz. We got one of the cheapest ways to build Battalions. CP is abundant. Problem is we got a lot of stuff we want to spend it on, so it disappears quickly too.

i mean, having 1 of the 3 batts being bloodaxe is actually good.
3 weirdboyz (2 in another cheapo batt, 1 in bloodaxe with clever talk) and Snikrot as the 2nd hq. Hes barely more expensive than a weirdboy and pretty decent. I love using him but man i hated using bloodaxes. Now i have a reason to use bloodaxes.

KFF Mekz are also cheap as chips. So are SAGs, for that matter...

 flandarz wrote:
Chinork (by itself) would be the cheaper option, but it's also less durable and less killy. So it's a give and take

Probably something that has to be played around with. It just seems like an interesting alternative, given some limitations of the Deff Koptas. I don't think we'll really care if either of these targets kills anything necessarily but keeps our other better stuff alive.

Being able to transport 10 melee units (nobs?) or 10 tankbustas / Flash Gitz while performing this sort of overwatch shenanigans might be pretty fun. Makes it serve a dual purpose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean frankly, if this tactic is *really* good, having redundancy is not a bad thing, so maybe you take both?

I dunno, it's a very powerful ability in the right circumstances, but the circumstances where it's powerful seem very limited, for both halves of the power. Orks don't generally care that much about overwatch, though it's obviously good in very specific circumstances. Same about getting interuppted against. How often are you going to be charging anything you care enough about avoiding the interuppt against that spending the points you have to spend to set this up really makes sense vs just having that many more close combat units to fight with instead? Same for overwatch.

I am sure there are circumstances, but like 75% of the time it seems like you'd be better off just having another unit of 30 boyz instead of paying the points to avoid overwatch/avoid interuppt against a single unit. Not to mention the CP costs if you'r suggesting taking less than a battalion and also using the 2CP for ramming speed...

with more blood axes might make morgugs finking cap valuable for Oi've got a plan lads to mitigate cp drain

It's definitely great if for some reason you are playing BA anyway. I'm just not convinced it's a great reason to take a specialized 1CP BA detachment just for the power.

yukishiro1 wrote:
It's definitely great if for some reason you are playing BA anyway. I'm just not convinced it's a great reason to take a specialized 1CP BA detachment just for the power.

Reasonable take. I think this us just spit balling. It's a very interesting power that's unfortunately locked to Blood Axes.

Sadly, with all of these sick new pregame boosts, I am thinking triple bat will probably become even *more* enticing too, so this probably isn't even the smart play.

At minimum for my lists, I'll be spending 3 CP (Da Biggest Boss, Dread Waaagh, 2nd relic), which makes the bat, bat, outrider (or whatever) go down to 11 CP... before using tellyporta and stuff.

And I am certain there will be a good kustom job that I'll want on top of this.

Biggest problem with the finken cap: you're capped to 1 CP a turn now (FAQ), and honestly, we spend a ton our CP pregame. It's unlikely to make it's worth back over opportunist on your SSAG.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I dunno, it's a very powerful ability in the right circumstances, but the circumstances where it's powerful seem very limited, for both halves of the power. Orks don't generally care that much about overwatch, though it's obviously good in very specific circumstances. Same about getting interuppted against. How often are you going to be charging anything you care enough about avoiding the interuppt against that spending the points you have to spend to set this up really makes sense vs just having that many more close combat units to fight with instead? Same for overwatch.

I am sure there are circumstances, but like 75% of the time it seems like you'd be better off just having another unit of 30 boyz instead of paying the points to avoid overwatch/avoid interuppt against a single unit. Not to mention the CP costs if you'r suggesting taking less than a battalion and also using the 2CP for ramming speed...

Fair point. I guess it would be powerful against Tau or IH. Otherwise may not be so.

Who cares if a strat is "too powerful against Tau or IH". Are we actually worried about that

My initial thoughts were how to best take advantage of this new power cheaply, whilst mitigating the lower chance of making a charge. The Deffkoptas are cheap, but are flying vehicles and their only job is to engage a target and deny over watch, but also to deny the chance to my opponent to interrupt in that fight until I'm ready.
Their fragility doesn't bother me, as they're essentially a throw away unit.

It's just an idea which I can imagine could have some uses, but it's also cheap enough in this format that it can be taken without too badly affecting the rest of your army if it doesn't perform.

 Elfric wrote:
Who cares if a strat is "too powerful against Tau or IH". Are we actually worried about that

Can't IH also just straight up pay CP to deny a psychic power?

tulun wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
It's definitely great if for some reason you are playing BA anyway. I'm just not convinced it's a great reason to take a specialized 1CP BA detachment just for the power.

Reasonable take. I think this us just spit balling. It's a very interesting power that's unfortunately locked to Blood Axes.

Sadly, with all of these sick new pregame boosts, I am thinking triple bat will probably become even *more* enticing too, so this probably isn't even the smart play.

At minimum for my lists, I'll be spending 3 CP (Da Biggest Boss, Dread Waaagh, 2nd relic), which makes the bat, bat, outrider (or whatever) go down to 11 CP... before using tellyporta and stuff.

And I am certain there will be a good kustom job that I'll want on top of this.

Biggest problem with the finken cap: you're capped to 1 CP a turn now (FAQ), and honestly, we spend a ton our CP pregame. It's unlikely to make it's worth back over opportunist on your SSAG.

What are you guys taking for relics? I also dread waagh to have the shokk gun relic. For the second I kind of just slow a kill klaw on my walking boss as it's w.e. Unless you're paying that extra cp for say the klaw in this example. I always forget if I'm paying 1 or 2 for the vigilis unlock for strats and relic.

Also power wise, do you guys find your Weirdboys sitting there doing nothing? I'll jump with one, the others just stare blankly as they're typically out of reach on stuff throughout the game

SSAG + Killa Klaw.

Who knows though, we haven't seen any new relics just yet.

Pretty much always SSAG and Killa Klaw. The other codex ones are just for fluff when I’m bored of those. My Weirdboyz usually have something to do between Smite, Warpath and Fists of Gork or even getting into position to Deny. Not normally would they have nothing to do.

has anyone tried interlocking boyz units to counter first turn / deepstrike charges?

if you placed boys units so that every other inch was the opposite squad. the enemy would have to either charge both or charge and land straight in front of the model precisely 1" out to prevent hitting the interlaced unit.

It was just something I was thinking of to combat that long charge from Genestealers who I do play against frequently.

Would this work?

Yeah it works really well. Great for Gretchin, which are generally a much better screen than Boyz.

If you want to save a CP and have no issues with an evil subs detachment. Then zhardsnark with the new strat is just as good if not slightly better as the relic klaw biker boss.

Regarding wierdboys or warp heads if you spend the CP to upgrade just sitting there after da jump I think it will really depend on what’s our new psychic powers we are bound to get one or 2 decent choices. Whether those are on a detachment you plan on taking remains to be seen...
But so far it seems I’m still looking at deathskulls and evilsuns but something nice can always push up badmoons or freebooters

Each kulture gets a psychic power, and if you're going on past releases with that style, they tend to be pretty good. For all we know - and it'd be just like GW - the DS, BM and ES powers are as good or better than the BA one.

gungo wrote:
If you want to save a CP and have no issues with an evil subs detachment. Then zhardsnark with the new strat is just as good if not slightly better as the relic klaw biker boss.

something tells me that will be one of the first things they FAQ

Who thinks that the Bad Moons power will be like midas touch or something? Cause mortal wounds based of armor save of something as the ork turns em into the good shiny stuff.

operkoi wrote:

gungo wrote:
If you want to save a CP and have no issues with an evil subs detachment. Then zhardsnark with the new strat is just as good if not slightly better as the relic klaw biker boss.

something tells me that will be one of the first things they FAQ

I doubt it... however there is a distinct possibility both zhardsnark and warboss on bike will lose the warlord keyword when forgeworld redoes the book and like the deffkilla wartrike they instead receive the “speedboss” keyword... (and maybe speedfreak keyword)
However that book sounds far out in the future if it’s even released this year. So zhardsnark and warboss on bike will have time to shine.

Ragnar kills Ghaz. So, yet another reason to not buy.

As for relics I actually had good results with a tooth shooting gun that's a 2d6 12" Skorcha. In all fairness, even more success than a killa klaw on my biker boss as people tend to avoid cc. But it equires a bad moon detachment and an index model.

Reagrding the FW units like bikerboss etc - do you see the FW index in the “last chance to buy” section right me? Hm? Any news about the replacement? With PA?

New FW books have been announced to be in the making, this time around by the GW rule team.

Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen

Are you talking about the "cut his head off" thing we all already know, or is this a "Ghaz is dead for real" thing? Cuz I think PA is supposed to be "in the past", so I don't think they have room to kill off anyone for good.

Random math attack:

Chances per numbers of shots for a full unit of lootas
15: 33.33%
30: 33.33%
45. 33.33%

Re-rolling all ones with CP:
15: 11.11%
30: 44.44%
45: 44.44%

New spanner stratagem (2d3, pick highest)
14: 11.11%
28: 33.33%
42: 55.55%

New spanner stratagem and using CP to not get a one
14: 3.70%
28: 37.04%
42: 59,26%

New spanner stratagem and using CP to roll a three, always re-rolling the lower dice
14: 3.70%
28: 22.22%
42: 74,03%

Just in case you wondered...

better odds for sure but MAN is that cp hungry.
Theyre already CP hungry as it is due to grot shields and showin' off.

Yeah. I think that loota Strat is a dud because it’s too expensive. If it was 1 CP for 14/1 it would be good.

Expensive as in CP cost or the idea of getting 45 friggin lootas!?

5th edition players already have 45 lootas


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In general, it's better than I expected it do be. Might be an option for people who aren't bad moons but want to run lootas.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/20/waaagh-grotsgw-homepage-post-2/

Grot klan rules! Am I the only one that thinks that a 6++ and rerolling 1's to hit on mek guns is pretty strong? A small grot spearhead seems like a good move IMO

Well that's it for me to be playing for ?? Local Gamerooms in the Gamestores have been shutdown here in Kentuckiana . Well it'll give me time to give PA6 a good deep study and figure out the best way to retool my tourney list with it. When-If thing ever get back to normal My WAAAGH!!! will be Better, Stronger, Faster!
And who know maybe even more painted too

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/20/waaagh-grotsgw-homepage-post-2/

Grot klan rules! Am I the only one that thinks that a 6++ and rerolling 1's to hit on mek guns is pretty strong? A small grot spearhead seems like a good move IMO

hell go batallion and dump a wierdboy or kff mek/badrukk (if you are already bringing flash gitz) for better cp.

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/20/waaagh-grotsgw-homepage-post-2/

Grot klan rules! Am I the only one that thinks that a 6++ and rerolling 1's to hit on mek guns is pretty strong? A small grot spearhead seems like a good move IMO

Mek guns gain 6++ invul and get better at killing vehicles?

Yeah that’s really good. If they are somehow also “deathskulls” or whatever, that’s so good

So Killa Kanz will be getting re-roll 1's in CC and shooting?

 Elfric wrote:
So Killa Kanz will be getting re-roll 1's in CC and shooting?

Yup, its just to hit rolls, so it applies to both.

Between that and the buff to hit in CC with a WAAAGH! Banner, that could make Kanz actually worth considering, especially with the Mekboy Workshop upgrade.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PiñaColada wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/20/waaagh-grotsgw-homepage-post-2/

Grot klan rules! Am I the only one that thinks that a 6++ and rerolling 1's to hit on mek guns is pretty strong? A small grot spearhead seems like a good move IMO

I think given how Mek Gunz are already one of our strongest units in our codex, we'll be seeing a spearhead or battalion with the grot subkultur in every competitive list now. It's a flat upgrade with pretty much no downside if you take Weirdboyz as your mandatory HQ's.

Now that means you have kanz with 4 Klaw A a piece hitting on 5's rerolling 1's +3" move 3+ 6++. If they can use some stratagems to get a bit better or less LD dependent, you got a nice deal

I think Mek Guns have not been showing up in Top 4 / 8 lists actually, due to how easily they give up Gangbusters and such.

But who knows, maybe this'll push them over the top again, given this is a really solid offensive and defensive buff...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Emicrania wrote:
Now that means you have kanz with 4 Klaw A a piece hitting on 5's rerolling 1's +3" move 3+ 6++. If they can use some stratagems to get a bit better or less LD dependent, you got a nice deal

I somehow don't think we'll get much in the way of LD buffs for KK. They'll have to be babysat by your Warboss.

Not the end of the world, but I'm not sure I'd take them in a competitive list. And given how most people's warbosses are Evil Suns and you probably want this as like.. bad moons or death skulls, not sure if your warboss will even be the right clan for breakin' heads.

Mek gunz have their flaws too, if you play competitively. They take up a big chunk of the deployment, they give up easily VP and once you charge thru with a DS unit, you can shut down 3 or per ds unit pretty easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:


Not the end of the world, but I'm not sure I'd take them in a competitive list. And given how most people's warbosses are Evil Suns and you probably want this as like.. bad moons or death skulls, not sure if your warboss will even be the right clan for breakin' heads.

Agree here. Just us gonna be nice to try it in more relaxed atmosphere or corona-TTS environment

 Emicrania wrote:
Now that means you have kanz with 4 Klaw A a piece hitting on 5's rerolling 1's +3" move 3+ 6++. If they can use some stratagems to get a bit better or less LD dependent, you got a nice deal

Yeah but are you going to spend a CP/buy a mek workshop to give them the +3 M?

So, less chance of mortal wounds on KMK? Good, good.

killakanz are going to absolutely love that grot kulture....
Combined with the 3" movement and adv reroll bonus? killakanz might be pretty good now.

What gets me real hyped is that this kultur is pretty good and per the article there's more than one of them. Combine this with some grot strats maybe and we're in real business. I'd love to field more of my little gribblies!

Grot rules are interesting In a multi detachment list.
It makes playing Mek Guns, and possibly kans better. This is worse then deathskulls though for big meks.

But what got me in the preview is how they included the Shokk atk gun Mek when it doesn’t have a Gretchin keyword unless you take the optional oiler? Is this subculture not locked to Gretchin units?

Also it’s exciting to see forgeworld units are being promoted on the community page.

You can probably include other units in with the Subculture, but they won't benefit from it.

So im thinking ideally you would want to take battallions with 2HQ (SSAG and Weirdboy), 3x 10 grots and a bunch of mek guns? Most people were basically taking this anyway for CP, but now the mek guns will get rerolls!

Yeah exactly, it's probably just the current grot rule in reverse

I really wonder whether we get to pick two of those abilities or if it's just one per detachment.

What might be interesting and thematic is if they allowed runtherdz to be HQs in a Gretchin subculture.

 Jidmah wrote:
I really wonder whether we get to pick two of those abilities or if it's just one per detachment.

Yeah it really needs to be two if they want people to base whole armies.

Like the pyrotechnics detachment seems amazing only on an air wing, not a 3 detachment army.

 Billagio wrote:
So im thinking ideally you would want to take battallions with 2HQ (SSAG and Weirdboy), 3x 10 grots and a bunch of mek guns? Most people were basically taking this anyway for CP, but now the mek guns will get rerolls!

And a 6++ (unless they lack the keyword ?) ! That can cause an extra lascanon to be directed at them ! There might be salt again thrown at our dear smashas

 Jidmah wrote:
I really wonder whether we get to pick two of those abilities or if it's just one per detachment.

Ill put money on it and say no. By the looks of it we arent building our own klans but using a replacement. So the two that we have had previewed wouldnt be taken as both together as a single klan tactic but 1 for each separate detachment each. We are already getting numerous benefits from each new subkulture, looking at the build-a-bear ones from previous PAs they dont have numerous benefits per option, like long range marksmen is just +3" range, not +3" and reroll 1s to hit. So im pretty certain we just pick 1 per detachment i you wanna replace a klan.

When is the ndr gonna drop?

 Emicrania wrote:
When is the ndr gonna drop?

Tomorrow at 10am


Automatically Appended Next Post:
its always as soon as preorders are live which is 10am

Grot subculture is insane
My 18 smasha guns thank you gw!!

im just assuming this but since they call it a subkulture im assuming its in addition to the normal kulture.

In otherwords, instead of custom kultures (which we know we dont get) we get 2 pools of kultures, normal and sub, and pick 1 of each.

I actually like that mentality. It also drops the issue of custom/successor stuff blocking named characters.

I mean, that'd be swell but I'm doubtful that we'll just get a straight buff like that. I hope I'm wrong and you're right but unless the only way you get a kultur and a subkultur is if it's the same for the entire army then I can't really see it happening..

Fortunately the wait is almost over either way

It may not be too outlandish to have both, considering Marines have their Chapter bonuses and Doctrines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, I personally think it'll be an "either/or" situation.

No new relics or warlord traits confirmed.

We get custom jobs, clan specific powers, specialist mobs and the KFF mek back.

 Jidmah wrote:
No new relics confirmed.

No new relics have been confirmed yet?

Or there are no new relics, and that is a confirmed fact?

The later.

That sucks, so how do the specialist mobs work then?

Edit: In fact, any standouts in general?

Sad panda.

Jidmah, do you know if subkultur's remove the main clan bonus? And if they keep the main <CLAN> keyword?

NZ Prophecy of the Wolf Boxset:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Prophecy-Of-The-Wolf-EN-2020

Contents page from Saga of the Beast:



Also looks like Ghaz does have a slightly different pose aside from the headswap — as in its just rotated on the base lol:

At least the KFF mek situation will be resolved since there's an entry for him in the book

PiñaColada wrote:
At least the KFF mek situation will be resolved since there's an entry for him in the book

Yeah, the chances of the rumor engine previewed belonging to a new big mekk w/ kff model increased quite a bit now

Maybe that’s the hand as well that looks Orky or from a Catachan

They did a good job hiding him in the preview pics. He wasn’t even in the army battle shots.

I’m secretly hoping we get clan kultures AND subkultures to take together. That would make orks competitive but I doubt we get both.
To be fair specialist detachment, regular detachments, subkultures, and kultures is just way convoluted and confusing.

They call them specialist mobs? Sounds like Vigilus.