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I have just read through the comments on the latest Dark Eldar and wow it never fails to amaze me the amount of negativity I see on Dakka so angry I had to post this rant.
Since when has the actual cost of a miniature been linked to its in points cost in the game? Oh and the sculpting critics here is an idea learn to sculpt or at the least wait till you actually see the miniatures before tearing into them photos are often misleading. And if the cost is really crippling your wallet here is another idea get another hobby.

JimBowen38 wrote:I have just read through the comments on the latest Dark Eldar and wow it never fails to amaze me the amount of negativity I see on Dakka so angry I had to post this rant.
Since when has the actual cost of a miniature been linked to its in points cost in the game? Oh and the sculpting critics here is an idea learn to sculpt or at the least wait till you actually see the miniatures before tearing into them photos are often misleading. And if the cost is really crippling your wallet here is another idea get another hobby.

I hate to take you up on this but GW themselves have said they have priced things like Goldswords and other elite plastics at a much higher price than the 'rank and file' plastics due to their placement in the army book or codex. That's a direct link between points value and price right there.

Given that Beastmasters are not supposed to be an elite unit and that one needs a fair few of them to make a decent unit, I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to comment on the cost.

As for the aesthetics, personal preferences are just that - personal. In the DE thread there were just as many people who liked as disliked that I could see.

GW pricing strategy will always polarise people. It's not enough to tell people to 'get another hobby' - I seriously doubt anyone posting on Dakka has to make a choice between food and miniatures, for example. Its a luxury hobby - we all understand that. But for GW to up the ante year upon year, especially after so many have made a large buy in, is somewhat churlish.

You will always find people complaining about GW here and on other boards; its just the nature of the beast. The trick is to effectively sort the wheat from the chaff.

I was going to cover it point for point, but after re-reading your last sentence... I can understand there's a lot that you don't agree with, and I hate to break it to you, but you just brought some of that negativity home. Just, instead of miniatures you're being caustic to people.

Besides, Filbert did an awesome job already. For real.

I'm glad you are happy for people to have opinions which differ to your own.

I think Filbert covers all the basics related to your complaint so there is not really much to add.

I love GW and want to have its babies.

There, did that help?

Am I the only one that finds the idea of getting angry about people getting angry hilarious?

Dakka negative?

Pshah!
Dakka is not negative. Posters on Dakka can be negative, but when people post pictures of crap looking models then asks "what do you think?", I'm not going to p*ss in his pocket and call it golden.

You don't have to give up 40k if you don't like GWs prices, but there ARE other minifigs manufacturers out there who make comparable products that might suit your purposes just as well - and are often cheaper and better made.

Wargaming IS my cheapest hobby.
I've learned where to save money. I learned to scratchbuild and kitbash other companies stuff to fit my game (it's fine for everyone except the one or two GW snobs in my club ) - the rules do not specify that you MUST use their products in the game (and GW don't run events here, so that angle is irrelevant).

@ Dreadnote No you aren't

JimBowen38 wrote:Oh and the sculpting critics here is an idea learn to sculpt or at the least wait till you actually see the miniatures before tearing into them photos are often misleading.

You don't need to be Ceasar to understand Ceasar, and you don't need to be a sculpter to know what an ugly model is. Likewise, we're the consumers, it's GW's job to appeal to us, not the other way around.

And if the cost is really crippling your wallet here is another idea get another hobby.

There's a difference between too expensive and too expensive to justify. I can justify buying expensive models (I'm making a truescale army right now, each single marine costs $25 to make, that's a lot of money), but I can't justify buying those models for that price. It's not that I can't afford it, I just wouldn't feel very good about paying for that.

Wow, that's a harsh one. In all seriousness I think you may be getting a little too wound up over this

As for the sculpts, personally I like them all excluding the razorwings, which ARE well-sculpted birds, and if I needed some birds in flight would consider the purchase but they don't really look like the evil vicious birds the fluff makes them sound, I really like the beastmaster, though I don't really know why they decided to mount them on skyboards in the new 'dex.

JimBowen38 wrote:Since when has the actual cost of a miniature been linked to its in points cost in the game?

Imagine each ork boy cost £5, would anyone play (and therefore purchase) orks? From a sales perspective, cheap units should have cheap costs, why would anyone spend a ridiculous amount of money on a unit that requires numbers to be effective? Think why everyone converts their own Skaven Poisoned Wind Globadiers? It's because GW are charging ~£8 for a single model that are 10pts each and need a minimum of 10 to be anywhere close to effective, the reason no-one uses PW Globadiers is because you have to drop £80 before you have a unit that is worth taking, the limiting factor here is the cost of the unit, rather than the rules themselves.

JimBowen38 wrote:And if the cost is really crippling your wallet here is another idea get another hobby.

I'm not sure as to your circumstances but I really could not think of a more disagreeable comment than this, and I will be honest in that at the moment it has hit rather a raw nerve with me. I recently graduated from university and I am in a low income job, so because the costs of my hobby, (thats right, hobby) have become prohibitively expensive, I should get rid of my orks and trade my paints for a TV guide and take up lounging in front of the idiot box as my chosen pastime?. GW have been increasing prices regularly for a very long time (and their most recent financial statement is beginning to show consumer backlash). What are you saying here? that those without masses of disposable income are not welcome in the grim darkness of the far future?

I would agree with you on Dakka being very negative. Overly negative at times. It seems like everyone here loves taking a swing at GW (the "evil empire") whenever they can. Just don't let it bother you. And don't get caught up in all the sadistic bashing of GW. Sometimes, GW deserves a smack in the face, but I don't think they are as bad as the typical Dakkaite seems to want them to be.

It's the internet, you'll find unnecessary nerd rage everywhere.

I normally defend the cost of the hobby, sure it's expensive, but when you look at the amount of time assembling/painting/playing with it, I feel it justifies the cost. The new beast units have tipped the scales for me though, £150+ quid for one 200 point unit is sickening.

I think it's fair enough for people to voice their opinion on a sculpt, as others have said, there is just as much (if not more) praise regarding the actual models themseves in that thread. It's just the bizzaro logic of making a hoard unit unit out of £7-15 1-per-pack metal models that have caused most of the negativity.

If the majority people are on the webz raging about how rubbish somthing is, its probably because the people who like it are pre ordering it and choosing there colour scheme...

i think forums are always a bit tetchy, even people who agree with you can seem aggressive but thats because you cant judge a persons tone in text (even with ork-shaped emoticons). Its just other people sitting at home eating biscuits and dropping crumbs on the keyboards like you and me, there not often any malice in comments made.

i find people who are too nice way more disturbing <(look an emoticon for you to judge my tone by!!)

Personally, I don't much care for the trend on dakka of people writing off all criticism of GW as "nerdrage" or "haters" or whatever latest trendy buzzword is for casually and reflexively dismissing the opinions of anyone who dislikes something you like without bothering to actually read and understand them.

But the nice thing about Dakka is the mods are very effective, and discourse is actually remarkably civil compared to most forums I've been on. So, whatever, people can disagree with me. It's alright. I've got certain things I'm looking for in minis, and I'm asserting what I want to see. Just like the people who disagree with me are. They're still wrong of course, but it doesn't hurt anyone to let them be wrong.

I'll say this though. You can bet criticism of GW would be a lot milder here if they didn't work so hard to tune out all criticism of the company through their own channels. If GW's long term customers had a reason to think the company cared about giving them a satisfactory customer experience, it would take a lot of wind out of the sails here.

Welcome to the internet. Someone later in the post will surely put up the Penny-Arcade Strip about Normal people + anonymity = bad things

JimBowen38 wrote:I have just read through the comments on the latest Dark Eldar and wow it never fails to amaze me the amount of negativity I see on Dakka so angry I had to post this rant.
Since when has the actual cost of a miniature been linked to its in points cost in the game? Oh and the sculpting critics here is an idea learn to sculpt or at the least wait till you actually see the miniatures before tearing into them photos are often misleading. And if the cost is really crippling your wallet here is another idea get another hobby.

You are whining about perceived whining.

Boo hoo, wah.

JimBowen38 wrote:I have just read through the comments on the latest Dark Eldar and wow it never fails to amaze me the amount of negativity I see on Dakka so angry I had to post this rant.
Since when has the actual cost of a miniature been linked to its in points cost in the game? Oh and the sculpting critics here is an idea learn to sculpt or at the least wait till you actually see the miniatures before tearing into them photos are often misleading. And if the cost is really crippling your wallet here is another idea get another hobby.

I have a better website for you. I think it will fit your bill nicely.
http://www.barney.com/au/

It's the same on nearly every forum I go on (Apart from ATT, that's just amazingly well moderated and small in size)

I frequent my local football teams forum (Notts County) and I've never read so much negativity in all my life but you still get good posters and good threads so it's swings and roundabouts really.

JimBowen38 wrote:Oh and the sculpting critics here is an idea learn to sculpt...

I guess you don't know a bad piece of music or novel unless you've written a bestseller and play the guitar like Jimi Hendrix.

Pah, you want negativity join some of the other forums and see what happens. Then again, there are some that have their noses so far up GW ass its a bit scary.

Also I think the comment you made on the crippling wallet thing is a bit harsh and rather negative as well. Your sounding like an elitist there. Youd be surprised that not everyone that plays isnt super rich and pisses money in the toilet every morning. Im not saying Im trading food stamps for cash to play 40k, but justifying the cost on some things is just a bit hard to do some times. When I first got into 40k over 10 years ago, it was actually fairly cheap to play, I almost never said "whoa thats to pricey"
Now I go out and alot of the times I think the opposite. I think $50 for that? REALLY? Wow, I think Ill be scratch building that. But I play Orks, and lucky for me I actually think alot of the Ork line isnt that bad. Im a buy/build over time type, and the majority of the box sets are in the $20 range. BUT, even Orks have the holy cow prices. a singe Mega Nob is how much? Good lord!

OP, chill, your adding to the negative vibes...

This is a forum, think internet bathroom wall and you'll understand. Sure it's full of gak, but there are some gems if you look hard enough.

JOHIRA wrote:Personally, I don't much care for the trend on dakka of people writing off all criticism of GW as "nerdrage" or "haters" or whatever latest trendy buzzword is for casually and reflexively dismissing the opinions of anyone who dislikes something you like without bothering to actually read and understand them.

Calling anyone with something positive to say a fanboi or apologist though, totally cool.

I find it amusing that wargaming is a 'luxury' hobby...

Does that mean I should hang around at posh golf courses and take up yachting?

My hobby is fairly cost neutral, as I paint for a couple of companies, and as I play historicals, its a hell of alot cheaper.

So for me, historical gaming is a cheap hobby.


As for GW... Some people just love them a little too much...

chromedog wrote:Dakka negative?

This is too good of an etymological opportunity to discard! Ladies and Gentlemen of Dakka, our negative comments to expensive and often useless models that we will buy anyways has gained a new title- Dakka Negative.

'Dakka Negative' definition- A negative comment about or criticism of a product which is rendered moot by the individual making it purchasing the item or army being discussed at a later date. See also- Stormpelican.

Man, we need a fist bump or respect knuckles Orkmoticon.

This will probably get lost at the bottom of this heap... but...

Dakka is made up of fans. Being a fan of anything means you care more than the avarage person, about something that many see as unimportant. The fact that people care is what's important to take from that. The average person would be apathetic to what GW does; where the fan and dakka-ite care enough to want to see more or better and endure an affront the average person would walk away from GW and have nothing further to do with them.

Next all forums run the risk of falling into that cravass of negativity, for the simple fact bad news and negative opinions tend to be more extreme when they happen and hold your attention more. With many more questions and responses going to why something is dissatisfying.

For example, a thread entirely about good news looks like this:

Jesus wrote:I love these new Dark Eldar...

Pope wrote:Yeah, I agree. I like that too

Paul wrote:Did you notice the awesome skull head. Its so cool!

Jesus wrote:I know what you mean. I hope they do more like this

The back patting can only go on so long.

As opposed to:

Adolf H. wrote:Those dark eldar suck...

Benito M. wrote:I dunno, I kinda like them.

Genghis K. wrote:I don't see what's wrong with them

Adolf H. wrote:The males are too effeminant and females too masculine.

Genghis K. wrote:I don't see that.

Adolf H. wrote:How do you not see that? They have little waists and pointy chins and ears

Genghis K. wrote:You porbably wish they were all super human Space Marines...

Adolf H. wrote:Yes... possibly blood thirsty with blond hair... don't get me started on the spikes

That tendecy to draw out the negative threads is what keeps people coming back and keeps the thread at the top of the forum. It ends up being seen more.

JimBowen38 wrote:Since when has the actual cost of a miniature been linked to its in points cost in the game? Oh and the sculpting critics here is an idea learn to sculpt or at the least wait till you actually see the miniatures before tearing into them photos are often misleading.

The new Dark Eldar stuff, just like the stormraven, look like gak. The reason people are pissed is because wave 1 dark eldar was so beautiful. How could they go from Total Win to Epic Fail so fast?

Sooo many people just fed the troll.

=(

Welcome to the internet. If you say something people disagree with you're a hater or a troll.

plastictrees wrote:Welcome to the internet. If you say something people disagree with you're a hater or a troll.

That's not true. You're a jerk!