"When you set up this model, you can declare that it is dedicated to Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch. If you do, the Daemon Prince replaces its Cursed Soul‑eater ability with the relevant ability from the following list...
1. Implies that you don't have to.
2. Contravenes current fluff about there being no unaligned Daemon Princes (besides Belakor).
So I'm calm, collected, friendly and generally a great opponent. Then Wulfrik gets within 3" of an enemy and I suddenly scream "Eat gak and die witch flaps!", and, because my opponent is obviously taken aback, I get re-rolls?
No... no... no...
It's actually a very clever mechanic to stop mixing factions, as the Elf battalion requires you to maintain an air of dignity. Consider them essentially "Come the Apocalypse" level allies without having to bother with the matrix.
Yeah don't worry H.B.M.C., my post wasn't aimed at you. As Thraxas said, in an earlier post someone had a bit of a rant about the new rules in which they said everyone who enjoys them are either 5 year olds or have some mental problem.
And wow that Wulfik rule... Say "War" commandingly, talking to Kondrad or not laughing or smiling in a hero phase is all fine and silly, but outright insulting your opponent on purpose?
Not really a good thing to encourage GeeDubs... I'd say that rule is going to be ignored fast.
Alex C wrote: I hate to think what "special rules" GW might make for Slaaneshi models.
Peen-comparison challenge?
No need to guess. Example
: It is wise not to gaze long upon the splendour of a Lord of Slaanesh, lest terrible notions begin to form. If an enemy unit finishes its pile in move within 3" of a Lord of Slaanesh, you can tell your opponent that they are in danger of being beguiled.
From that point on, if your opponent looks you in the eye before the unit has made its hit rolls for that combat phase, subtract 1 from any of those rolls which target this model.
Supreme Vanity: Sigvald is narcissism personified, unable to go more than a few moments without seeking a mirrored surface. You can re-roll failed save rolls for Sigvald if you can see your reflection or are holding a mirror when you roll the dice. However, if the result of any of these re-rolls is 1, Sigvald becomes entranced by his own perfection, and cannot pile in or make attacks for the rest of the phase.
The Endless Dance: If you are dancing while rolling the dice for the Masque’s attacks in the combat phase, you can reroll any failed hit rolls. If, at any point, you can coerce your opponent to join in, you can re-roll any failed wound rolls as well.
I noticed there are no silly the rules for the box contents.
I'll take a bet there won't be any for new models down the line either, that lot is just a troll of the existing users, which given they have paid the wages for thirty years is just downright poor business.
In fact, from what Ive seen the new stuff is too big to really fit in with the old stuff anyway, even the chaos guys.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah don't worry H.B.M.C., my post wasn't aimed at you. As Thraxas said, in an earlier post someone had a bit of a rant about the new rules in which they said everyone who enjoys them are either 5 year olds or have some mental problem.
And wow that Wulfik rule... Say "War" commandingly, talking to Kondrad or not laughing or smiling in a hero phase is all fine and silly, but outright insulting your opponent on purpose?
Not really a good thing to encourage GeeDubs... I'd say that rule is going to be ignored fast.
Just compare their parents to hamsters in a mocking french accent.
I think what people are having the most difficulty in swallowing about all the silliness is that WHFB at least wore the clothes of a serious wargame, AoS males no pretense that it's just a lark and seriousness and strategy be damned. I think GW has made a large error in not releasing a serious ruleset prior to the just for funsies because the larger population that at least wants something close to balanced and organized play will shake their head and walk away. It's almost as if they're having a roast of WHFB before it retires to the French Riviera and hooks up with a Brazilian barkeep in its dotage.
Farewell GW fantasy, we hardly knew ye.
On another note, this can't even really draw in the board game crowd sure to models that require assembly and painting. Just look at board game fora to see how popular that is with that particular crowd (hint, it's not). So who is AoS marketed towards? Since GW does no advertising except through its own incestuous channels, I have no clue because I honestly don't see the majority of current fantasy gamers liking it.
NoggintheNog wrote: I noticed there are no silly the rules for the box contents.
I'll take a bet there won't be any for new models down the line either, that lot is just a troll of the existing users, which given they have paid the wages for thirty years is just downright poor business.
In fact, from what Ive seen the new stuff is too big to really fit in with the old stuff anyway, even the chaos guys.
A thousand times this
Like I said earlier, they've burnt their bridges with me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
agnosto wrote: I think what people are having the most difficulty in swallowing about all the silliness is that WHFB at least wore the clothes of a serious wargame, AoS males no pretense that it's just a lark and seriousness and strategy be damned. I think GW has made a large error in not releasing a serious ruleset prior to the just for funsies because the larger population that at least wants something close to balanced and organized play will shake their head and walk away. It's almost as if they're having a roast of WHFB before it retires to the French Riviera and hooks up with a Brazilian barkeep in its dotage.
Farewell GW fantasy, we hardly knew ye.
On another note, this can't even really draw in the board game crowd sure to models that require assembly and painting. Just look at board game fora to see how popular that is with that particular crowd (hint, it's not). So who is AoS marketed towards? Since GW does no advertising except through its own incestuous channels, I have no clue because I honestly don't see the majority of current fantasy gamers liking it.
I read some of those scrolls, and my initial reaction was to gouge out my eyes! I'm tempted to drive to GWHQ and shove a cactus up Tom Kirby's rear!!
Torga_DW wrote: So you're not looking forwards to the Horus Heresy: Age of PewPew?
If GW pulls something like this with 40k (which they won't, since its to valuable for them to gut like this) I think it's realistic to expect either A) The FWHH team quits over what is the death of their dream project. B) they ignore it and continue to publish rules intended for 6th edition rule set (even their 7th ed HH books are geared more so towards the 6th edition rule set)
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah don't worry H.B.M.C., my post wasn't aimed at you. As Thraxas said, in an earlier post someone had a bit of a rant about the new rules in which they said everyone who enjoys them are either 5 year olds or have some mental problem.
And wow that Wulfik rule... Say "War" commandingly, talking to Kondrad or not laughing or smiling in a hero phase is all fine and silly, but outright insulting your opponent on purpose?
Not really a good thing to encourage GeeDubs... I'd say that rule is going to be ignored fast.
Just compare their parents to hamsters in a mocking french accent.
I feel sorry for people like yourself who have to flog this dead horse. If I lived near your shop, I can guarantee you right now, you'd be getting a very large order for KOW stuff. Hell, the way I'm feeling right now, I'd pay double for KOW models.
"When you set up this model, you can declare that it is dedicated to Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch. If you do, the Daemon Prince replaces its Cursed Soul‑eater ability with the relevant ability from the following list...
1. Implies that you don't have to.
2. Contravenes current fluff about there being no unaligned Daemon Princes (besides Belakor).
agnosto wrote: I think what people are having the most difficulty in swallowing about all the silliness is that WHFB at least wore the clothes of a serious wargame, AoS males no pretense that it's just a lark and seriousness and strategy be damned. I think GW has made a large error in not releasing a serious ruleset prior to the just for funsies because the larger population that at least wants something close to balanced and organized play will shake their head and walk away. It's almost as if they're having a roast of WHFB before it retires to the French Riviera and hooks up with a Brazilian barkeep in its dotage.
Farewell GW fantasy, we hardly knew ye.
On another note, this can't even really draw in the board game crowd sure to models that require assembly and painting. Just look at board game fora to see how popular that is with that particular crowd (hint, it's not). So who is AoS marketed towards? Since GW does no advertising except through its own incestuous channels, I have no clue because I honestly don't see the majority of current fantasy gamers liking it.
I read some of those scrolls, and my initial reaction was to gouge out my eyes! I'm tempted to drive to GWHQ and shove a cactus up Tom Kirby's rear!!
Just make sure to bring Wulfrik along and make a witty insult at the same time!
Most of the warscrolls seems fine. It's mainly just special characters that have the silly rules. I'm gonna be playing the sigmarite faction anyway, so I won't have to deal with dancing, etc.
Azazelx wrote: It depends on whether it's fun or not. Mikhala seemed to think the game itself was fun and the flaws were more with the lack of balancing. If the game is fun, then it's fun, after all.
On a slightly cynical note, Mikhala is financially invested in selling the game (unless he managed to get out those 80 copies of the game he pre-ordered). It would be very poor business sense to tell everyone it's crap, don't buy it, I'm not casting any aspersions on his character and I'm sure he did have fun...it's just obviously everyone in the world has different views on fun (some people even think Russell Brand is funny, go figure!).
Fair point in one sense, but then most of us aren't actually his customers and he's been more than happy to be cynical about both GW and the game itself. As for Brand. In small doses in specific things he's funny. Mostly he's ok veering into fething annoying.
Personally I loved the WFB world, I started collecting in 1985 and despite dabbling in 40K it has always been fantasy for me, at some point I have had between 3'000 and 12'000 points of every army GW has ever produced....
~(snip)~
Yes, I can afford to go and buy 10 Bloodthirsters, but I always preferred a balanced theme based army it's just more enjoyable for both players. I had put aside quite a lot of money to get a decent sized skirmish force for Wood elves, Bretonnians, Dark Elves and Warriors of Chaos, but I think I'm going to stick to Mierce's Darklands for my skirmish games...and I'll see what in my 5000point Forgeworld chaos dwarf army can be used in KoW2 when the book comes out shortly.
yes, yes, I also started many years ago and have way more miniatures than is in any way sensible. I guess the thing is I already stopped playing WHFB quite a few years ago because HeroHammer and moved onto KoW a couple of years ago using my existing models (and the Old World fluff). I'm happy to buy the boxed set for the models, completely ignore the Silly fluff of AoS and adapt/repurpose the rest while continuing to use The Old World (or my own twisted version of it) as the background for my mostly-but-in-no-way-exclusively GW armies and Kings of War for the ruleset. But if I give their free, silly rules a spin from time to time in the privacy of my own home there's no harm, no foul. If I were a current WHFB player, I'd just stick with 8th - in much the same that people have been playing "Oldhammer" 3rd edition in increasing numbers of late.
Post your CD model list in the Mantic section and I'm sure that at least a couple of us will help you work out some list options. The Mantic Not-Bull Centaurs are based off the old GW models, and so are a bit pissweak. I'd recommend using the Ogre Chariot stats instead (rules-wise you'd just consider them allied troops).
got a good look at the Krazy Khorne Kastle in the trailer. I'm not going to be able to "resist" that one if it is in fact a kit. Looks like it might be a new warhammer fortress style jobby with towers and walls rather than the 40k-type big moulded ones?
Samurai_Eduh wrote: Most of the warscrolls seems fine. It's mainly just special characters that have the silly rules.
Not if you play greenskins...
Excuse me, 'orrukin'.
I mean, I get into the games. I'll trash-talk a unit of goblins that squabbles instead of flank-charging, or order a squad of guardsmen executed for poor accuracy on an incoming Hive Tyrant, but it's...weird when the game itself makes you do it. It's different, you're doing it every turn for a bonus and the amusement value wears off really quickly. Once or twice on a fitting special character, like Marius Leitdorf? That's excusable. Giving it to practically every faction?
I don't want Warhammer: Unglued.
Guess this gives me an excuse to multibase my gobbos into nifty dioramas and head out for Mantica! It's a real shame, because I love the universe, but I guess I still have my RPG books. And that Mount and Blade mod. And the upcoming Total War...
Samurai_Eduh wrote: Most of the warscrolls seems fine. It's mainly just special characters that have the silly rules.
Not if you play greenskins...
Excuse me, 'orrukin'.
I mean, I get into the games. I'll trash-talk a unit of goblins that squabbles instead of flank-charging, or order a squad of guardsmen executed for poor accuracy on an incoming Hive Tyrant, but it's...weird when the game itself makes you do it. It's different, you're doing it every turn for a bonus and the amusement value wears off really quickly. Once or twice on a fitting special character, like Marius Leitdorf? That's excusable. Giving it to practically every faction?
I don't want Warhammer: Unglued.
Guess this gives me an excuse to multibase my gobbos into nifty dioramas and head out for Mantica! It's a real shame, because I love the universe, but I guess I still have my RPG books. And that Mount and Blade mod. And the upcoming Total War...
Then don't forgot about Grail Knights and giving an oath to the lady of the lake every turn your in combat with a grail of some kind.
Welp the starter set models are nice enough so just need to rebase the chaos guys and I've got a nice expansion to my armies.
EDIT: Bah... funny url aside, its just a rehash of the Warseer / Dakka concerns making the rounds. I'm not surprised.
A game where you get mechanical bonuses for ignoring society's grooming standards, drinking while you play, screaming loudly, talking to no-one in particular and avoiding eye contact is just what miniatures wargames needed!
Oh - also for insulting your opponents!
Hitting it way out of the ballpark there. BoLS. And it doesn't even feel like a broken clock moment. Damn.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah don't worry H.B.M.C., my post wasn't aimed at you. As Thraxas said, in an earlier post someone had a bit of a rant about the new rules in which they said everyone who enjoys them are either 5 year olds or have some mental problem.
And wow that Wulfik rule... Say "War" commandingly, talking to Kondrad or not laughing or smiling in a hero phase is all fine and silly, but outright insulting your opponent on purpose?
Not really a good thing to encourage GeeDubs... I'd say that rule is going to be ignored fast.
Just compare their parents to hamsters in a mocking french accent.
I feel sorry for people like yourself who have to flog this dead horse. If I lived near your shop, I can guarantee you right now, you'd be getting a very large order for KOW stuff. Hell, the way I'm feeling right now, I'd pay double for KOW models.
"When you set up this model, you can declare that it is dedicated to Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch. If you do, the Daemon Prince replaces its Cursed Soul‑eater ability with the relevant ability from the following list...
1. Implies that you don't have to.
2. Contravenes current fluff about there being no unaligned Daemon Princes (besides Belakor).
They really are making it up as they go along.
Don't buy the KoW models, they suck with possible exception of the older plastic undead.
quickfuze wrote: So you think having to spend two hours negotiating how and what is going to be in the game, house rules, clarifications and what is an even battle is the foundation For a good game?
What kind of friends do you have that it takes two hours to say "let's not use Special Characters, they are silly"?
Some obscure polynesian languages are surprisingly verbiose.
Hakha Chin is certainly right up there in my experience.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah don't worry H.B.M.C., my post wasn't aimed at you. As Thraxas said, in an earlier post someone had a bit of a rant about the new rules in which they said everyone who enjoys them are either 5 year olds or have some mental problem.
And wow that Wulfik rule... Say "War" commandingly, talking to Kondrad or not laughing or smiling in a hero phase is all fine and silly, but outright insulting your opponent on purpose?
Not really a good thing to encourage GeeDubs... I'd say that rule is going to be ignored fast.
Just compare their parents to hamsters in a mocking french accent.
I feel sorry for people like yourself who have to flog this dead horse. If I lived near your shop, I can guarantee you right now, you'd be getting a very large order for KOW stuff. Hell, the way I'm feeling right now, I'd pay double for KOW models.
"When you set up this model, you can declare that it is dedicated to Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch. If you do, the Daemon Prince replaces its Cursed Soul‑eater ability with the relevant ability from the following list...
1. Implies that you don't have to.
2. Contravenes current fluff about there being no unaligned Daemon Princes (besides Belakor).
They really are making it up as they go along.
Don't buy the KoW models, they suck with possible exception of the older plastic undead.
I disagree, many of the models look nicer than GW, IMO.
Samurai_Eduh wrote: Most of the warscrolls seems fine. It's mainly just special characters that have the silly rules.
Not if you play greenskins...
Excuse me, 'orrukin'.
I mean, I get into the games. I'll trash-talk a unit of goblins that squabbles instead of flank-charging, or order a squad of guardsmen executed for poor accuracy on an incoming Hive Tyrant, but it's...weird when the game itself makes you do it. It's different, you're doing it every turn for a bonus and the amusement value wears off really quickly. Once or twice on a fitting special character, like Marius Leitdorf? That's excusable. Giving it to practically every faction?
I don't want Warhammer: Unglued.
Guess this gives me an excuse to multibase my gobbos into nifty dioramas and head out for Mantica! It's a real shame, because I love the universe, but I guess I still have my RPG books. And that Mount and Blade mod. And the upcoming Total War...
Then don't forgot about Grail Knights and giving an oath to the lady of the lake every turn your in combat with a grail of some kind.
Welp the starter set models are nice enough so just need to rebase the chaos guys and I've got a nice expansion to my armies.
Don't buy the KoW models, they suck with possible exception of the older plastic undead.
Actually, I kinda like the look of the goblins. Thinking of picking up a few to mix in with my own ladz in a horde.
The ogres look pretty nice, too.
Which is why I said "most"!
Fair, but it's hard to listen to the 'well, just avoid special characters' argument when the same weirdness applies for the core of your army and your generic characters.
Contravenes current fluff about there being no unaligned Daemon Princes
Where does it state that - is it 8th Edition? Mind you the fluff changes from edition to edition and you should know that?
We used to have unaligned / Independent minor powers of Choas as well as at least one Major God, Gods of Laws - loads of stuff.
It's in Bel'a'kor's fluff, IIRC.
Something along the lines of "he was a very naughty boy and got a bit out of hand, so the Chaos Powers got together and said 'let's not do that again!'"
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah don't worry H.B.M.C., my post wasn't aimed at you. As Thraxas said, in an earlier post someone had a bit of a rant about the new rules in which they said everyone who enjoys them are either 5 year olds or have some mental problem.
And wow that Wulfik rule... Say "War" commandingly, talking to Kondrad or not laughing or smiling in a hero phase is all fine and silly, but outright insulting your opponent on purpose?
Not really a good thing to encourage GeeDubs... I'd say that rule is going to be ignored fast.
Just compare their parents to hamsters in a mocking french accent.
I feel sorry for people like yourself who have to flog this dead horse. If I lived near your shop, I can guarantee you right now, you'd be getting a very large order for KOW stuff. Hell, the way I'm feeling right now, I'd pay double for KOW models.
"When you set up this model, you can declare that it is dedicated to Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch. If you do, the Daemon Prince replaces its Cursed Soul‑eater ability with the relevant ability from the following list...
1. Implies that you don't have to.
2. Contravenes current fluff about there being no unaligned Daemon Princes (besides Belakor).
They really are making it up as they go along.
Don't buy the KoW models, they suck with possible exception of the older plastic undead.
I disagree, many of the models look nicer than GW, IMO.
Sure, if you like nuns riding housecats.
It's really all the restic that I can't stand. Worst. material. ever. (comic book guy)
Contravenes current fluff about there being no unaligned Daemon Princes
Where does it state that - is it 8th Edition? Mind you the fluff changes from edition to edition and you should know that?
We used to have unaligned / Independent minor powers of Choas as well as at least one Major God, Gods of Laws - loads of stuff.
It's in Bel'a'kor's fluff, IIRC.
Something along the lines of "he was a very naughty boy and got a bit out of hand, so the Chaos Powers got together and said 'let's not do that again!'"
I could write fluff for AoS!
Really? Hmm I recall him being the First Chosen One but not the only Independent Daemon Prince - in fact was he not the opposite as he had backing from all the Powers - same as Archeon?
Well bloody resist it!!! Any success for AOS = 40k getting the same treatment.
It's definitely not that simple.
I think GW already has plans in the pipeline to Sigmar 40K. I also do not believe there will be anything to stop them from Sigmarring 40K short of a dismal failure for AoS.
Not likely. This is them moving Fantasy to an Unbound 40k model. 40k already sells well, and in fact sells rules by the bucketload as well. Fantasy wasn't as popular, and also suffered from routinely needing units of 20-40 figures to play the game while GW has been moving to selling fewer models at much higher prices. Which you'll notice 40k already does very successfully.
Contravenes current fluff about there being no unaligned Daemon Princes
Where does it state that - is it 8th Edition? Mind you the fluff changes from edition to edition and you should know that?
We used to have unaligned / Independent minor powers of Choas as well as at least one Major God, Gods of Laws - loads of stuff.
It's in Bel'a'kor's fluff, IIRC.
Something along the lines of "he was a very naughty boy and got a bit out of hand, so the Chaos Powers got together and said 'let's not do that again!'"
I could write fluff for AoS!
Really? Hmm I recall him being the First Chosen One but not the only Independent Daemon Prince - in fact was he not the opposite as he had backing from all the Powers - same as Archeon?
Slayer le boucher wrote: Or simply roll 2D12 or 2D20,...what?!..., nowhere does it says that you must roll 2D6's, it just says rolls 2 dices, and as far as i know nowhere in the rules does it says that you are limited only to D6's, while it does indeed tells you to use D6's when rolling for stuff, there is no rule that says " you cannot use any other kind of dices", just like this rule says "roll 2 dices" and not "roll 2D6's"...
See?, thats GW forging a narrative with your arse...
First rule i put on my "how the feth do i run tournaments" list was 1) No summoning.
Doesn't this essentially render some units useless?
I think something more along the lines of only casting a summon spell once per army per battle. (i.e. no two wizards casting the same summon, once one is successful the spell can no longer be cast) This would still allow for a ton of extra models to be summoned, but they would have to be different models/spells each time.
Someone compared this to 'The Producers' earlier in the thread. Given what I've just sat through and read in the 'scrolls' for existing armies, that previously sarcastic comparison seems entirely legitimate. It's like they set this entire thing up to fail.
'Dance on one leg', 'tell yourself you're worth it into a mirror', 'shout abuse at your unsuspecting opponent', 'wrestle naked with your opponent like Oliver Reed and that other bloke in Women in Love', because deep down, we hate all of you and think you're all idiots, now dance monkeys, dance... It's Grade A insulting to those of us who have spent our money with the company and loved their work for a long time. It's like some extremely costly and elaborate practical joke, I keep waiting for GW to announce 'fooled ya' and bring us a tight ruleset 9th edition, but I know it's not to be.
This game is drivel. I really tried to stay optimistic, I really tried to wrap my head around 'no points costs' and 'warscrolls', then I read all those 'amusing rules' and saw what was actually going down, it's the emperor's new clothes, it's junk, it's a middle finger waved at us and simultaneously asking us to pay for the privilege to do so.
I'm off. See ya Warhammer, it's been 30 amazing years, I loved all but the last one. I'll never forget pints passed last orders at The Pelican with Lady Dieudonné, or chasing fimir through the hinterlands with a poet and a trollslayer, or any of the hundreds of other memories. It was great, thank you.
Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...
First rule i put on my "how the feth do i run tournaments" list was 1) No summoning.
Doesn't this essentially render some units useless?
I'm assuming refilling like the Tomb Kings is ok. That said why would it render some units useless? Wizards are still wizards and know other spells and can stop opposing spells. Curious what units no summoning would make pointless.
BlaxicanX wrote: It boggles my mind that people are still trying to figure out a way to adapt this into a tournament/pick-up tier game?
WHY? Why not just play 8th edition fantasy in tournaments and pick-ups? Like it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever why anyone would bother going through the house-rule hell of trying to "balance" a game that is unequivocally built from the ground up to NOT be a serious tactical game. Age of Sigmar is literally in the same genre of games as Trouble, Mouse-Trap and Perfection.
Like, someone explain this phenomenon to me.
Because honestly, 8th edition was a mess. Ridiculous Herohammer games with oversized, un-maneuverable units got to be the norm. It was slow paced and horribly balanced. WFB was dying for a reason.
AOS fixes a lot of the problems by making things a bit more abstract. Units have 4 stats instead of 9. Most things are streamlined. The model count has been greatly reduced. These are the things people have wanted for awhile. The problem is the lack of points and the silly "Yell at each other" rules. But those things can be fixed. Now, whether adding points would actually result in a balanced game has yet to be seen. But its worth a try. At this point GW players are so starved for a well written rule set, they will take whatever they can get.
Pariah-Miniatures wrote: While logic isn't a thing with gw, I'm failing to understand why they include update rules for special characters that shouldn't exist in any way considering the events that transpired before age of sigmar. This was their chance to wipe the slate clean of characters that don't have a plastic new model and come up with new ones. If forge the narrative is a thing for playing with rules you must act out or vocalize sounds, the. Forging the narrative of not playing with characters that are beyond the realm of the dead
There must be loads of players who have metal or (God forbid) Finecast special character figures, who would not want to throw them away because not included in the new game.
I think it is a good move by GW to include these characters. They should be congratulated.
I don't like the shouting rules but that can always be ignored. It's good in a game for 10 year olds.
Yeah I think that is the least of their concerns. This whole game seems to be a mess. Their logic for their own fluff, rules etc. they want you buy new product not play with your old
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Someone compared this to 'The Producers' earlier in the thread. Given what I've just sat through and read in the 'scrolls' for existing armies, that previously sarcastic comparison seems entirely legitimate. It's like they set this entire thing up to fail.
'Dance on one leg', 'tell yourself you're worth it into a mirror', 'shout abuse at your unsuspecting opponent', 'wrestle naked with your opponent like Oliver Reed and that other bloke in Women in Love', because deep down, we hate all of you and think you're all idiots, now dance monkeys, dance... It's Grade A insulting to those of us who have spent our money with the company and loved their work for a long time. It's like some extremely costly and elaborate practical joke, I keep waiting for GW to announce 'fooled ya' and bring us a tight ruleset 9th edition, but I know it's not to be.
This game is drivel. I really tried to stay optimistic, I really tried to wrap my head around 'no points costs' and 'warscrolls', then I read all those 'amusing rules' and saw what was actually going down, it's the emperor's new clothes, it's junk, it's a middle finger waved at us and simultaneously asking us to pay for the privilege to do so.
I'm off. See ya Warhammer, it's been 30 amazing years, I loved all but the last one. I'll never forget pints passed last orders at The Pelican with Lady Dieudonné, or chasing fimir through the hinterlands with a poet and a trollslayer, or any of the hundreds of other memories. It was great, thank you.
Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...
You, me, and a few others, are the only people that can actually see this new game for the steaming pile of gak that it actually is. The tragedy is that this is a company that gave us Necromunda and Space Hulk, reduced to this. Now they're laughing at us. Well, laugh away GW, because my money is going elsewhere.
BlaxicanX wrote: It boggles my mind that people are still trying to figure out a way to adapt this into a tournament/pick-up tier game?
WHY? Why not just play 8th edition fantasy in tournaments and pick-ups? Like it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever why anyone would bother going through the house-rule hell of trying to "balance" a game that is unequivocally built from the ground up to NOT be a serious tactical game. Age of Sigmar is literally in the same genre of games as Trouble, Mouse-Trap and Perfection.
Like, someone explain this phenomenon to me.
Because honestly, 8th edition was a mess. Ridiculous Herohammer games with oversized, un-maneuverable units got to be the norm. It was slow paced and horribly balanced. WFB was dying for a reason.
AOS fixes a lot of the problems by making things a bit more abstract. Units have 4 stats instead of 9. Most things are streamlined. The model count has been greatly reduced. These are the things people have wanted for awhile. The problem is the lack of points and the silly "Yell at each other" rules. But those things can be fixed. Now, whether adding points would actually result in a balanced game has yet to be seen. But its worth a try. At this point GW players are so starved for a well written rule set, they will take whatever they can get.
You forget 8th was a mess of GW's own making. Nobody denies fantasy needed change, but GW cured the headache by cutting off the head!!
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MWHistorian wrote: I'd hate for a game I love to be turned into a silly game for children.
MongooseMatt wrote: Well, we actually tried out the game today, with old Warhammer armies (Vampire Counts vs. Wood Elves). You can see the results here;
Xyxox wrote: I'm thinking it's only a matter of time until they decide to Sigmar 40K, so taking the timing thing into account I will be putting my Dark Angels up on eBay. I'm keeping my Ork Boyz as it looks like those will be usable with Mantic's Warpath game and of course my Empire, O&G, Dwarf, and Lizardman armies will beplayed under KoW rules, so no need to sell them off.
Yep ..my tau, nids and dark eldar are all going by by
GW's message seems to be this: thank you loyal fans for supporting us for years. Of course you can use your old stuff, bought with hard earned money, but only if it has silly rules. We only care about our new stuff anyway, so we don't mind if we you off, because customer service and building a community is SOOOOO overated.
Well, I've got a message as well: up yours Kirby!!!
MWHistorian wrote: I'd hate for a game I love to be turned into a silly game for children.
"Games Workshop is in the business of selling toy soldiers to children." - Tom Kirby, Chairman of Games Workshop PLC
Well, I guess AOS will be the ultimate test of whether GW's impression of their customers as people whose hobby is "collecting Citadel miniatures" will prove correct!
Xyxox wrote: I'm thinking it's only a matter of time until they decide to Sigmar 40K, so taking the timing thing into account I will be putting my Dark Angels up on eBay. I'm keeping my Ork Boyz as it looks like those will be usable with Mantic's Warpath game and of course my Empire, O&G, Dwarf, and Lizardman armies will beplayed under KoW rules, so no need to sell them off.
Yep ..my tau, nids and dark eldar are all going by by
I think you guys may be misreading the situation significantly. No biggie for me though; cheap minis!
MongooseMatt wrote: Well, we actually tried out the game today, with old Warhammer armies (Vampire Counts vs. Wood Elves). You can see the results here;
I might actually be adding to my undead army based on that battle report.
You are going to be wanting at least one unit of everything that can be summoned And that includes Zombie Dragons (good luck trying to summon it, but it will be so sweet when you do ).
H.B.M.C. wrote: I didn't say people who like this game are children. I said that the game is for children.
I have seen this a few times on this thread. I played a game today against my 12yo son (High Elves v Dark Elves) using AoS rules. We just randomly decided what units seemed balanced based on prior experience. Whilst we still enjoyed the game and by luck it was close (and my War Hyrdra messed up his horrible Sword Masters for a change), even he realised the old rules were much better. We discussed the new rules over dinner and the only positives we could come up with were a bit simpler for beginners and they were free. Rules that made some units viable (like high initiative or a wide selection of magic) are gone.
But even my 12yo son who loves pouring over the codexes and working out which units are OP/UP was going through his rule book having no clue whether a unit is any good as there is simply no way to compare anything. e.g. My expensive $$ Witch Elves now seem to suck badly and since there is no points value, or need to field core... well they do suck. I think
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Someone compared this to 'The Producers' earlier in the thread. Given what I've just sat through and read in the 'scrolls' for existing armies, that previously sarcastic comparison seems entirely legitimate. It's like they set this entire thing up to fail.
'Dance on one leg', 'tell yourself you're worth it into a mirror', 'shout abuse at your unsuspecting opponent', 'wrestle naked with your opponent like Oliver Reed and that other bloke in Women in Love', because deep down, we hate all of you and think you're all idiots, now dance monkeys, dance... It's Grade A insulting to those of us who have spent our money with the company and loved their work for a long time. It's like some extremely costly and elaborate practical joke, I keep waiting for GW to announce 'fooled ya' and bring us a tight ruleset 9th edition, but I know it's not to be.
This game is drivel. I really tried to stay optimistic, I really tried to wrap my head around 'no points costs' and 'warscrolls', then I read all those 'amusing rules' and saw what was actually going down, it's the emperor's new clothes, it's junk, it's a middle finger waved at us and simultaneously asking us to pay for the privilege to do so.
I'm off. See ya Warhammer, it's been 30 amazing years, I loved all but the last one. I'll never forget pints passed last orders at The Pelican with Lady Dieudonné, or chasing fimir through the hinterlands with a poet and a trollslayer, or any of the hundreds of other memories. It was great, thank you.
Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...
This^ sums things up somewhat. After customers have spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars on GW product and all the time building and painting those models for GW to turn WHFantasy into a children's game and give every customer the middle finger rather than put real effort into making a decent 9th ed ruleset to win customers back, why would anyone reward GW with more money? GW clearly shows it cares little about the games and their customers. It is sad for games (WHF and 40K) that have such potential that GW cannot see why people are upset and walking away. IMO, most players just want a decently balanced ruleset that allows them to use their armies where the rules are decently written and most units are also decent options to take. Why would I invest more time and money into any of their games if I can expect them to trash the line in such a way. I have to wonder if GW financials keep showing the company revenue is going down will 40K have this same AoS moment? There is never any guarantee that a company/product line will remain profitable but you would think that GW would do some real research to find out why - such as seriously looking at the good and bad of their product (means being honest), talking to lots of their consumers to try to learn why people are leaving a game (what makes a good game for most people).
H.B.M.C. wrote: I didn't say people who like this game are children. I said that the game is for children.
I have seen this a few times on this thread. I played a game today against my 12yo son (High Elves v Dark Elves) using AoS rules. We just randomly decided what units seemed balanced based on prior experience. Whilst we still enjoyed the game and by luck it was close (and my War Hyrdra messed up his horrible Sword Masters for a change), even he realised the old rules were much better. We discussed the new rules over dinner and the only positives we could come up with were a bit simpler for beginners and they were free. Rules that made some units viable (like high initiative or a wide selection of magic) are gone.
But even my 12yo son who loves pouring over the codexes and working out which units are OP/UP was going through his rule book having no clue whether a unit is any good as there is simply no way to compare anything. e.g. My expensive $$ Witch Elves now seem to suck badly and since there is no points value, or need to field core... well they do suck. I think
It's a flat, dull system.
Yeah, it seems this is GW's response to balancing units:
"Don't feel like your unit is as strong as it should be? Then just buy another kit and play again!"
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Someone compared this to 'The Producers' earlier in the thread. Given what I've just sat through and read in the 'scrolls' for existing armies, that previously sarcastic comparison seems entirely legitimate. It's like they set this entire thing up to fail.
'Dance on one leg', 'tell yourself you're worth it into a mirror', 'shout abuse at your unsuspecting opponent', 'wrestle naked with your opponent like Oliver Reed and that other bloke in Women in Love', because deep down, we hate all of you and think you're all idiots, now dance monkeys, dance... It's Grade A insulting to those of us who have spent our money with the company and loved their work for a long time. It's like some extremely costly and elaborate practical joke, I keep waiting for GW to announce 'fooled ya' and bring us a tight ruleset 9th edition, but I know it's not to be.
This game is drivel. I really tried to stay optimistic, I really tried to wrap my head around 'no points costs' and 'warscrolls', then I read all those 'amusing rules' and saw what was actually going down, it's the emperor's new clothes, it's junk, it's a middle finger waved at us and simultaneously asking us to pay for the privilege to do so.
I'm off. See ya Warhammer, it's been 30 amazing years, I loved all but the last one. I'll never forget pints passed last orders at The Pelican with Lady Dieudonné, or chasing fimir through the hinterlands with a poet and a trollslayer, or any of the hundreds of other memories. It was great, thank you.
Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...
Exalted!
I LOL'd, and then I cried...
pretre wrote:
agnosto wrote: Do people seriously not bother to look at the thread before posting pics that have posted 3 times already?
Give people a break. This thread generates 5-10 pages per day.
Pretty much - this thread is almost impossible to keep up with unless you're doing it constantly, most of the day.
That's why it's best to check the first post for all the relevant info/pics/etc. - most of the time that is the best place to start.
If it isn't there, go for it - even if it has already been posted, no big deal!
MeanGreenStompa wrote: ..Now, Mr Ronnie Renton, if you've not already passed out on champagne and cigars, come on down, I have some money I'd like to put your way...
Plus Mantic are almost guaranteed to have another fantasy-based KS soon and/or you can get in on their Christmas sales and/or you can fiind around 30% off at most online discounters. All of those are excellent ways for picking stuff up way cheaper than paying full MSRP at a game store.
MWHistorian wrote: I'd hate for a game I love to be turned into a silly game for children.
"Games Workshop is in the business of selling toy soldiers to children." - Tom Kirby, Chairman of Games Workshop PLC
Well, I guess AOS will be the ultimate test of whether GW's impression of their customers as people whose hobby is "collecting Citadel miniatures" will prove correct!
Well, Fantasy isn't my game. I'd hate for FFG, Wyrd or PP to suddenly take their game, destroy the fluff and turn it into Chutes and Ladders with play time.
Our FLGS got an advance copy of the Age of Sigmar and our store owner has been running folks through the demo. I have to admit it is fun.
I can already see how the various groups can work together and make a decent game.
To build an army we are just going to set wound limits - for example we are playing a 50 wound game. Seems to work pretty well so far.
Why not use the min. model count for a unit as the limit?
Frex, Orc arrer boyz units start at min of 3 models. All units I've seen thus far have a number (or state it's a single model for heroes, etc.).
It seems like there's a divide between those people feel it's been dumbed down and those who like that it's simplified.
To those of you who like that it's been simplified, were you already playing WFB? How long had you been playing it? If you had been playing it, why were you playing something you found too complex?
I fall into the, "it's been dumbed down" category and I can't fathom why anyone who liked the previous game would continue to play it, except maybe for social reasons or to continue to get value out of your models. The things I liked about warhammer are gone. I liked the complexity.
I think that we've all known for a while that GW doesn't focus its actions on the interests of its "veteran" players. AoS is the ultimate expression of that. It shows the willingness to make a total sea change on their game at the risk of jeopardizing their existing players. As H.B.M.C. says, this game is clearly aimed at children, with its "jump around waving your arms" rules and its simplification.
Eons ago, when I once played games at GW stores, there were always those young teens who would come in to play games with lists that generally featured one mega over-the-top gimmick unit (I'm looking at you Slann with heart of woe). These kids would frequently attempt to mislead or bend the rules to meet their ends, because it was just silly, ridiculous fun for them. AoS looks like it will appeal HUGELY to that younger crowd. No points costs or composition restrictions to prevent them from fielding ridiculous forces (5 dragons bought on single dad's income), rules are incredibly simple and don't complicate, and open list construction, so they can engage in piranha-like feeding frenzies over whatever new flavour of the month models are coming out and still field an "army."
Anyways. The writing is in giant bold letters now, to veterans, Games Workshop does not care about you or what you want. If you resent their actions and you continue to buy after such a blatant statement of their values, you are the fool, not GW.
To build an army we are just going to set wound limits - for example we are playing a 50 wound game. Seems to work pretty well so far.
I'll take 50 wounds of chaos chosen and you can bring 50 wounds of skaven slaves.
Now imitate 'scratching' a record whilst playing 'rat rapping' by Roland Rat on your iphone to give your slaves +1 move and I'll rub my thighs and leer at people passing the flgs window for the boon of slaanesh on my chosen.
Actually, if I only take 15 wounds of chaos chosen and manage to keep one model alive for 6 turns whilst simultaneously slapping my johnson in a labrador's face without getting it bitten off, I autowin!
This is great news.
I literally cannot imagine more fun. Play us out roland the greyseer! Everyone enjoy your movement boon!
By looking through the last 200 pages i think they did peg their customers perfectly.
If i ran home and said
I went to walmart and bought this 60$ pool now they do not sell the pump they did when i bought the pool 5 years ago. Ovbiuosly the walmart man is giving me the middle finger. Peopel would recomend mental health.
Relax take a breath and move on no one will notice sorry to say. Thats the problem with internet everyone thinks they matter cause they can make a post.
People are wondering why some of us are bitter, let me tell you why we're bitter.
GW is a company, and companies want to make money. Fair enough I respect that.
I've been in the hobby 25+ years, but I'm not expecting GW to give me a free pass just because I bought some skeletons 15 years ago.
All I wanted was some respect.
Ok, GW, you want to sell your new stuff, fair enough, and you want to phase out the old stuff. Fair enough.
But you could have let us use our old stuff in the new game without resorting to stupid rules and conditions. You could have done a ravening hordes.
I probably would have bought the odd unit, some of those paints, maybe some of that new terrain. You would have made money from me...but now I won't give you a single penny, because you're treating me like an idiot.
I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
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Eldarain wrote: I think it's because we were all going to the NZ site for the PDFs.
Yeah, if you follow someone else's link from dakka it'll change your country to theirs.
Really unsure about this.
Basic rules are simple enough to learn and will be good if I want to play a different game in a short amount of time. Balance can be worked out between me and whoever I play.
I am disappointed in the magic, it isn't as amazing as before. I loved having so many magic lores.
Also the wounds are ridiculous.... 12 wounds for a hellpit abomination? Well good thing I have two...geuss I'm fielding Thanqoul and bone ripper, 2 hellpit abominations, 3 warp lightning cannons, 2 doomwheels, 60 stormvermin and maybe some weapon teams for fun
OgreChubbs wrote: By looking through the last 200 pages i think they did peg their customers perfectly.
If i ran home and said
I went to walmart and bought this 60$ pool now they do not sell the pump they did when i bought the pool 5 years ago. Ovbiuosly the walmart man is giving me the middle finger. Peopel would recomend mental health.
Relax take a breath and move on no one will notice sorry to say. Thats the problem with internet everyone thinks they matter cause they can make a post.
There's a difference between a pump you can't get anymore and a Warhammer army though isn't there. You didn't pour hours and hours of time building and painting an army of pumps, and a $60 pump is a lot less money than you invest in a Warhammer army. People are allowed to voice their dissatisfaction with the new version of a game they've spent hundreds and hundreds of pounds and a lot of time and effort on, in a thread with the express purpose of talking about said game. Get off your high horse. Your opinion matters as little as everyone else's.
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
It's time to start watching what falls off the web store never to return. My guess is, every old model will eventually go away, probably over about the next 18 months.
scarletsquig wrote: A lot of the new rules requiring physical actions discriminate against disabled players of the game.
And women can't usually grow mustaches, meaning they're at a disadvantage in a kurt helborg-off. Sound the alarm. Or maybe just apply the tiniest measurable amount of common sense. (Unthinkable, I know).
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
Azreal13 wrote: While broadly agreeing, I have no trouble seeing slightly over enthusiastic managers enforcing these RAW.
Dey gon' have some problems. But then again, I can think of some things that would be difficult for disabled players in the old rules (TLOS? Enjoy stooping over the battlefield, people with mobility problems. No pre-measuring? Hard luck, partially sighted. Admittedly they fixed that one)
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
Yeah fair point, it is a very personal reason that I don't like them. I don't have an issue with other people liking them, if anything I'm envious of people with the confidence to enjoy them!
OgreChubbs wrote: By looking through the last 200 pages i think they did peg their customers perfectly.
If i ran home and said
I went to walmart and bought this 60$ pool now they do not sell the pump they did when i bought the pool 5 years ago. Ovbiuosly the walmart man is giving me the middle finger. Peopel would recomend mental health.
Relax take a breath and move on no one will notice sorry to say. Thats the problem with internet everyone thinks they matter cause they can make a post.
I'm not sure I follow your logic.
We're talking about a company here that just told you itself to throw out the baby with the bath water, because you don't need that silly pump. You can use a bucket instead.
The logic would have been right and correct for 7th or 8th edition, this one.... no, the change here was too radical, no discussion, no open ended dialogue with the public, the standard issue "We know what's best for you, shut it and buy it...." shtick that GW is now known for.
The problem? They've driven an ever increasing hostile attitude to the consumer to the point where this is a borderline criminal act.
Companies' do not stay alive very long pulling this sort of gak, and it may become either the biggest mistake in this company next to going public that they ever made, or it is mad genius, and you will go shell out another couple hundred for some of this gak.... On my end, I'm on the sideline for now. I don't know if this stuffs going to fly, anymore. Hasbro has my vote if they pick up this new school G.I.Joe neon green Warhammer 40K AOSigmar mutant... Hopefully they can get the old MB molds and come out with Battlemasters V.2.
On my end, its looking like I have enough from GW and its time to start lightening my load.
And in this case, its not so much peoples opinion, but that there is a 20th century company that does not use technology, does not play test their product, initiate a discussion on a change, and uses shock value tactics to give one an impression that the sky's going to fall, rather then peoples general opinion.
Not to mention, they just [MOD EDIT - PLEASE find a different way to express yourself. - Alpharius] the game.
GW's in the penalty box this time, no matter how shiny this one looks. In this Grot's opinion, This one looks like a hot pile of stewed crap that there is no coming back from.
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
No, I get it. They've already pissed on 30 years of legacy, now it feels like they're mocking it too.
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
No, I get it. They've already pissed on 30 years of legacy, now it feels like they're mocking it too.
Yes. You've just put into words another reason it was annoying me, I didn't even realise but yeah it really does.
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
No, I get it. They've already pissed on 30 years of legacy, now it feels like they're mocking it too.
Yes. You've just put into words another reason it was annoying me, I didn't even realise but yeah it really does.
Yeah, they did a huge series of big hardback books, loads of amazing new models, all to give WFB the send off it arguably wasn't even entitled to given the numbers, then they released all the rules for the new version for free, included rules for all your existing models for free, but they happened to include some mostly harmless, tongue-in-cheek special rules for a handful of characters? Yeah, it's like they're pissing right in your face.
A few guys at my club have Warhammer armies (i don't). Given that the AoS rules are ap parently free, I might ask if we can try the game out. If it turns out I actually like AoS and we can get a regular Warhammer scene going, I might get a battalion box from Mantic Games. ~100 figures for £75.
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
No, I get it. They've already pissed on 30 years of legacy, now it feels like they're mocking it too.
Yes. You've just put into words another reason it was annoying me, I didn't even realise but yeah it really does.
Yeah, they did a huge series of big hardback books, loads of amazing new models, all to give WFB the send off it arguably wasn't even entitled to given the numbers, then they released all the rules for the new version for free, included rules for all your existing models for free, but they happened to include some mostly harmless, tongue-in-cheek special rules for a handful of characters? Yeah, it's like they're pissing right in your face.
Well clearly there's different ways of looking at it.
I worked myself through the O&G armylist. There are quite a lot of great ideas (some not specific to O&G).
The synergies are minimal, but nice and simple.
Still won't work, nor will it help AOS.
Without any kind of reasoning behind a Goblinboss on foot being "the same cost" as gorbad ironclaw or 1000000 blackorcs... it doesnt make any sense.
Hummmm, the way I see it allowing for gw to get under your skin specially if you think that GW added those not so funny rules in spite for vets is giving them to much importance.
I know and I also share the feeling "after decades of support this is the best they can come up with?" or "why did they killed literally everything positive about WFB?"
I have all these reasons to be stressed about:
Butchered fluff, Rules destroyed, regiments gone, bases gone ( use what you like is a clear temporary patch), dubious humour, space marines, skirmish wannabe, incompatible scaled minis.
But then there are also positives to be happy about:
Free rules, amazing artwork, all previous armies are covered with a scroll and almost all models are included, interesting terrain kits.
Final balance is not positive for sure.
So for me personally my immediate reaction was giving them the middle finger... but my cynical self will retract from that and instead I will carry on unchanged with my modeling projects, GW is not important or relevant enough to change my Hobby... I will collect the minis I want and play the games I want, GW and non GW ones like I always did.
So yes I will not allow a spoiled brat like GW mess up with my patience I will just close him in a dark room and will check him out now and then just to satisfy my curiosity.
All in all happy games folks I will continue having fun with my gobbos in any shape or form. I hope you guys can bury the dead corpse too and move to better days.
They effectively killed the "Pick-Up Game" for Fantasy. It's dead. There's not way you and a newly minted gamer acquaintance are going to agree on what level to play if points and power levels were already stupid in 8E... now it's literally just keeping putting models down until you're just 30% over your opponent not to give them an advantage.
So bring your whole collection! Your only limitation is how many big beasties can you mount on 25mm bases hanging vertically on cliff walls!
This game isn't meant to be taken seriously, obviously, thus I won't seriously consider giving them money. They're falling apart and this is just the next blatantly obvious thing to point towards... and yet people will defend it, and worse, people will buy this. XD
All this "destroying 30 years of Warhammer" gnashing reminds me of how the new Mustang isn't a Mustang because it doesn't have a live rear axle. It ignores the fact that time has moved on and what came before wasn't that great to begin with. It's obvious GW wasn't worried about current players so we can assume there was little downside to alienating them. Hence WHFB doesn't seem financially viable for GW (in the long term).
People also forget, Citadel Miniatures took over Games Workshop. The fact we still refer to the miniatures as Citadel is a constant reminder of which is the dog and which is the tail.
So, if you don't like the new rules I'm sorry for you. Felt the same when Rogue Trader became Warhammer 2nd Edition, I no longer played space elf pirates and now had to play Vulkan Sohei. But I'm actually interested in new rules and new fluff at the ground floor much like I was when Warmachine came out.
And no one can take away your current rules and minis. Epic players didn't care that GW abandoned them. Actually freed the players to make the changes they wanted.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: People are wondering why some of us are bitter, let me tell you why we're bitter.
GW is a company, and companies want to make money. Fair enough I respect that.
I've been in the hobby 25+ years, but I'm not expecting GW to give me a free pass just because I bought some skeletons 15 years ago.
All I wanted was some respect.
Ok, GW, you want to sell your new stuff, fair enough, and you want to phase out the old stuff. Fair enough.
But you could have let us use our old stuff in the new game without resorting to stupid rules and conditions. You could have done a ravening hordes.
I probably would have bought the odd unit, some of those paints, maybe some of that new terrain. You would have made money from me...but now I won't give you a single penny, because you're treating me like an idiot.
They did a Ravening Hordes via the PDFs. You can ignore the silly/stupid rules options because they're not mandatory, at all.
Hummmm, the way I see it allowing for gw to get under your skin specially if you think that GW added those not so funny rules in spite for vets is giving them to much importance.
I know and I also share the feeling "after decades of support this is the best they can come up with?" or "why did they killed literally everything positive about WFB?"
I have all these reasons to be stressed about:
Butchered fluff, Rules destroyed, regiments gone, bases gone ( use what you like is a clear temporary patch), dubious humour, space marines, skirmish wannabe, incompatible scaled minis.
But then there are also positives to be happy about:
Free rules, amazing artwork, all previous armies are covered with a scroll and almost all models are included, interesting terrain kits.
Final balance is not positive for sure.
So for me personally my immediate reaction was giving them the middle finger... but my cynical self will retract from that and instead I will carry on unchanged with my modeling projects, GW is not important or relevant enough to change my Hobby... I will collect the minis I want and play the games I want, GW and non GW ones like I always did.
So yes I will not allow a spoiled brat like GW mess up with my patience I will just close him in a dark room and will check him out now and then just to satisfy my curiosity.
All in all happy games folks I will continue having fun with my gobbos in any shape or form. I hope you guys can bury the dead corpse too and move to better days.
My take on the whole thing is the tabletop wargames market is very saturated with a wide variety of choices, products, and companies. As with all companies in all markets, when I believe a copany is not behaving in a manner that provides adequate service to me, their customer, I take my business elsewhere. I have so many choices why get bothered by a company that intentionally insults its customer base? Just shake your head, walk away, and do business with that other fellow who'll be happy to take the money you would have spent with the first company.
That's how free markets work. The companies with customer service in mind tend to do better than competitors who do not. Occasionally, the biggest company in a market forgets that and they end up being shaken from their pedestal.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: A few guys at my club have Warhammer armies (i don't). Given that the AoS rules are ap parently free, I might ask if we can try the game out. If it turns out I actually like AoS and we can get a regular Warhammer scene going, I might get a battalion box from Mantic Games. ~100 figures for £75.
Remember you can watch Mantic and online sellers to get that same army for probably a lot less than £75. Silly to pay MSRP.
Back to AoS, I'm looking forward to actually giving the starter box set a try. I think the FLGS where I just moved is considering carrying it.
Chairman Aeon wrote: All this "destroying 30 years of Warhammer" gnashing reminds me of how the new Mustang isn't a Mustang because it doesn't have a live rear axle. It ignores the fact that time has moved on and what came before wasn't that great to begin with.
Except the new Mustang is basically a Lada with the Mustang logo in bold across its hood.
I'd also argue that WHFB was great and if that assertion is debatable then the the previous editions (4,5,6,7,8) were a whole lot greater than what's been served up in this new thing
Now imitate 'scratching' a record whilst playing 'rat rapping' by Roland Rat on your iphone to give your slaves +1 move and I'll rub my thighs and leer at people passing the flgs window for the boon of slaanesh on my chosen.
Actually, if I only take 15 wounds of chaos chosen and manage to keep one model alive for 6 turns whilst simultaneously slapping my johnson in a labrador's face without getting it bitten off, I autowin!
I'd swing into the store to see that. I suspect that's what the lady wife assumes I do at the game store with you lads anyway.
Ok I made my way to the big smoke today to pick up a copy of WD, sadly all sold out but I did get to handle the minitures from the new box set. Out flipping standing. Excellent quality superb detail and way to kool for skool. Bit taken back at how good they are. Shop was packed and buzzing. We have one of the few stores with 3 or 4 staff still working at the one time. Great to see. I'm not GWs greatest fan but this looks to be a winner.
Just looking at the Night Goblins, would this be the correct interpretation of the new Fanatics rule?
According to the warscroll: "A unit of Night Goblin Fanatics can have any number of models". They move 2D6 and cause D3 damage with Rend -2. It also says that you can put them hidden inside a normal Night Goblin unit and when they come out they get a charge even if it isnt your charge phase. So they basically fight like normal troops and I presume remain locked in combat until everything they are fighting is dead??
So, if I have this right, a player can field a 10 strong unit of Night Goblins and field 1000 fanatics hidden within them?
The best bit about all of this is the fact that GW is publicly traded. That means we should know exactly how well this game does by about October 28 when the financial filings should be made public.
Does anyone know who wrote the novella? The website doesn't mention an author at all, as if it sprang fully-formed from he loins of the marketing department...*
I must admit I loooooove the "good" forces invading the "evil" world for a change. If they can draw out a few editions worth of "...but even those mighty feats will not stop the inevitable triumph of Good", I'll buy it. Down with the grimdark and up with the cheerlight, I say.
*Which might make it a better read than Nathan Long's Notrek and Fauxlix books.
My take on the whole thing is the tabletop wargames market is very saturated with a wide variety of choices, products, and companies. As with all companies in all markets, when I believe a copany is not behaving in a manner that provides adequate service to me, their customer, I take my business elsewhere. I have so many choices why get bothered by a company that intentionally insults its customer base? Just shake your head, walk away, and do business with that other fellow who'll be happy to take the money you would have spent with the first company.
That's how free markets work. The companies with customer service in mind tend to do better than competitors who do not. Occasionally, the biggest company in a market forgets that and they end up being shaken from their pedestal.
I know and to an extent I agree with you, I think my main divergence with that is that I refuse to be an active part of GW problems or solutions. I will selfishly concentrate on my own projects and let the market choose the path it wants to take and good luck to everyone GW included, let the money talk and I do that with NO moral attachments... It's just a silly miniatures company after all.
Come on! First you kill 30 years of background, then you release Space...i mean Sigmarines with bows and the arrows are on the wrong side of the riser? Really?
Commissar-Danno wrote: I looks like there are more relases coming our way for the Sigmarines including archers, mini-gryphs and what looks like a captain on foot
Thanks for the link
Sod it, I'm actually genuinely interested and maybe a little excited now. I held off fantasy, this is likely to drag me into it.
Lack of points, unfair odds? Not an issue if a) you want a challenge and b) you talk to your opponent and decide if you do want limitations. Frankly if people can't handle either, they should pack up and go home.
Edit: I've noticed a fair few mentions of scale-creep. I reckon the Sigmarines are supposed to be larger and more 'godlike' in stature. Perhaps the chaos ones are similar in stature being the evil equivalent evil immortals? Just a thought.
Yeah, the upcoming Sigmarite models look pretty solid. The photos of the various armies in the video look outstanding.
I suppose there's a chance I might buy multi-model boxes, but I don't think they'll get me on the character model if they're the usual GW prices, since I'd be getting them just to model and, they'd be likely to sit on the shelf a pretty long time.
Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote: Just looking at the Night Goblins, would this be the correct interpretation of the new Fanatics rule?
According to the warscroll: "A unit of Night Goblin Fanatics can have any number of models". They move 2D6 and cause D3 damage with Rend -2. It also says that you can put them hidden inside a normal Night Goblin unit and when they come out they get a charge even if it isnt your charge phase. So they basically fight like normal troops and I presume remain locked in combat until everything they are fighting is dead??
So, if I have this right, a player can field a 10 strong unit of Night Goblins and field 1000 fanatics hidden within them?
The only thing you have wrong there is that they have to remain in combat. They could retreat like any other unit.
After playing two games against Night Goblins today, I can tell you Fanatics are deadly!
Just finished 80 wounds of Nurgley Chaos with mostly monsters and spawn vs Darkened Aelfs. Great game. My spawn almost cleared them out. They won by 4 crossbowmen and a sorceress.
Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote: Just looking at the Night Goblins, would this be the correct interpretation of the new Fanatics rule?
According to the warscroll: "A unit of Night Goblin Fanatics can have any number of models". They move 2D6 and cause D3 damage with Rend -2. It also says that you can put them hidden inside a normal Night Goblin unit and when they come out they get a charge even if it isnt your charge phase. So they basically fight like normal troops and I presume remain locked in combat until everything they are fighting is dead??
So, if I have this right, a player can field a 10 strong unit of Night Goblins and field 1000 fanatics hidden within them?
The only thing you have wrong there is that they have to remain in combat. They could retreat like any other unit.
After playing two games against Night Goblins today, I can tell you Fanatics are deadly!
Cheers for the clarification Bottle Retreating fanatics..who would have guessed LOL
So I can use dozens of fanatics in this way! I'll have to pick up a fair few boxes of them later so...might just win a tournament yet!
mikhaila wrote: Just finished 80 wounds of Nurgley Chaos with mostly monsters and spawn vs Darkened Aelfs. Great game. My spawn almost cleared them out. They won by 4 crossbowmen and a sorceress.
Is that how you're balancing it then, amount of wounds? And have you been using the 'shout __ for x benifit' and stuff or just ignoring them?
People also forget, Citadel Miniatures took over Games Workshop. The fact we still refer to the miniatures as Citadel is a constant reminder of which is the dog and which is the tail.
You have that exactly backwards, as this quote from a WD of the time will confirm..
"Games Workshop and Bryan Ansell have got together to keep-alive Citadel Miniatures, a new miniatures company that will be manufacturing several ranges of figures. Ral Partha are already in production, but Citadel will also be producing own ranges, including the Fiend Factory figures, Fantasy Adventurers and Fantasy Specials. Citadel will not be limiting production to SF/F figures, but also new ranges of historical wargaming figures".[2]
Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote: Just looking at the Night Goblins, would this be the correct interpretation of the new Fanatics rule?
According to the warscroll: "A unit of Night Goblin Fanatics can have any number of models". They move 2D6 and cause D3 damage with Rend -2. It also says that you can put them hidden inside a normal Night Goblin unit and when they come out they get a charge even if it isnt your charge phase. So they basically fight like normal troops and I presume remain locked in combat until everything they are fighting is dead??
So, if I have this right, a player can field a 10 strong unit of Night Goblins and field 1000 fanatics hidden within them?
The only thing you have wrong there is that they have to remain in combat. They could retreat like any other unit.
After playing two games against Night Goblins today, I can tell you Fanatics are deadly!
Cheers for the clarification Bottle Retreating fanatics..who would have guessed LOL
So I can use dozens of fanatics in this way! I'll have to pick up a fair few boxes of them later so...might just win a tournament yet!
My opponent loved his fanatics so much he bought another box straight after the game :-)
So, if you don't like the new rules I'm sorry for you. Felt the same when Rogue Trader became Warhammer 2nd Edition, I no longer played space elf pirates and now had to play Vulkan Sohei. But I'm actually interested in new rules and new fluff at the ground floor much like I was when Warmachine came out.
That's pretty much the exact opposite of what's happening here. The change to 2nd edition made 40k less of a fast and loose narrative driven game to a ruleset that was simpler and more tactical. It wasn't perfect, but it must have been the right move because it made GW what it is today. But this feels like a regression. First the game went back to its clunky magic and arm building system that was used in the 90s. Now they've gone back to "do whatever you want".
Also 2nd edition 40k had space elf pirates. They were just called Eldar Corsairs.
This game sounds fun but as your mention about hiding 1000 goblin fanatics in a 10man squad, how do you handle that? I would think hiding more fanatics than actual night goblins sounds far fetched. Its really the only thing holding me back. I used to play competitive MtG and those people suck. Talk about rules lawyering at every turn just to win. but where do you draw the balance..
Chopxsticks wrote: This game sounds fun but as your mention about hiding 1000 goblin fanatics in a 10man squad, how do you handle that? I would think hiding more fanatics than actual night goblins sounds far fetched. Its really the only thing holding me back. I used to play competitive MtG and those people suck. Talk about rules lawyering at every turn just to win. but where do you draw the balance..
Obviously there is a range between something laid back and fun versus something balanced to make the game meaningful. I would argue AOS went way past that midpoint and now sits on the extreme end of random-for-fun.
Chopxsticks wrote: This game sounds fun but as your mention about hiding 1000 goblin fanatics in a 10man squad, how do you handle that? I would think hiding more fanatics than actual night goblins sounds far fetched. Its really the only thing holding me back. I used to play competitive MtG and those people suck. Talk about rules lawyering at every turn just to win. but where do you draw the balance..
The way you handle it is you wouldn't play them if they had 1000 fanatics. Fanatics are still declared during deployment even if their placement is hidden.
Think of this game like Inquisitor. You could make a warband of 100 Space Marines if you wanted to. People won't play you if you do however.
Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.
This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.
Well I've put in a preorder, Kirton games have the game for £60 plus free delivery for this weekend only which I think is worth it for the models.
Despite not liking the rules direction I still think the figures look pretty stunning. I guess warhammer will just become a painting and collecting project for me, which I'm cool with. Guess that kind of makes me the type of collector that gw want nowadays.
Just wish gw didn't make it so difficult to want to give them money
streetsamurai wrote: Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.
This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.
Well there are, the problem being they all work for the other companies in the area.
My question is, would anyone pay money for these rules if they were typically dressed up with recycled fluff in a setting totally not lifted from The Neverending Story (just a single mote of light, and DREAAAAM)? Like, would you have paid $85 to play this?
I'd be highly suspect of the sensibilities of someone saying yes.
Companies only give away stuff for free... as either a show of good faith to build a following, a la Corvus Belli, or they realize it's not good enough to actually charge for, a la GW. Nothing, absolutely nothing, from their past performance even hints at this being a showing of good faith. They're trying to desperately scrabble together something into a Unique IP™ and then hopefully rekindle the setting.
However, instead of going the intelligent route of a structurally sound base game and allowing their players to go off in random directions, they just crapped the bed instead. The only redeeming factor is it's free and that's it.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: It seems like there's a divide between those people feel it's been dumbed down and those who like that it's simplified.
To those of you who like that it's been simplified, were you already playing WFB? How long had you been playing it? If you had been playing it, why were you playing something you found too complex?
I like the move to more simplified rules - and understand the need for GW to do so instead of focusing on a shrinking customer base.
I have collected and played WHF and 40K since 1992 (although not that many matches per year). However, with a whole bookshelf full of GW publications and many massive armies in both systems I find it hard to keep up with the ever changing rules - which makes every battle becoming a pain in tedious army building and everything but fluent gameplay.
Truth is, even though (or because of?) I spend a few thousand dollars a year on GW stuff I find it harder and harder to find time/inspiration to actually play the game(s).
When I do play it is often heavily themed games (which are impossible to balance properly due to very different conditions for the forces in question).
I was (and still am) very upset when GW nuked the Old World, do not like the Sigmarines or the High Fantasy/Manga/Manwa/WOW/MMO setting at all (I would have preferred a more Willow/LoTR/Game of Thrones setting) and hate the fact that they released obviously untested Core rules (or atleast rules containing stupid last minute changes). The Chaos release is OK but suffer from Catachan-ism (everybody being bodybuilders).
If only GW had asked gamers outside their company to sign a NDA and help out with the rules (which show some signs of brilliance - but is utterly ruined by unclarity and silly and easily found mistakes) + had given the Warscrolls some sort of points system (which, as with all other similar games, simply cannot be balanced - but would still be better than no points at all) + had spoken to the existing customer base I do think they would have gotten a much better launch.
This said, I find the simplified and very free skirmish based ruleset is really interesting.
Now I can create Warscrolls for Witch Elf Chariots and similar cool stuff, without shifting the balance (as there is none in the first place)...
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Does anyone know who wrote the novella? The website doesn't mention an author at all, as if it sprang fully-formed from he loins of the marketing department...*
I must admit I loooooove the "good" forces invading the "evil" world for a change. If they can draw out a few editions worth of "...but even those mighty feats will not stop the inevitable triumph of Good", I'll buy it. Down with the grimdark and up with the cheerlight, I say.
*Which might make it a better read than Nathan Long's Notrek and Fauxlix books.
Well....the core rules arent completely terrible and from what I've read so far the warscroll special rules may add a little depth to what I Initially perceived as an over simplification. I've always prefered round bases and desired a skirmish game in warhammer fantasy so this will be fun to cruise through with my buddy as a side project.
But that's just it. It will really be more of a vessel to paint and play with my few fantasy models than it will be a game that our whole group actively engages in. Without points or structure it is impossible for me to understand how Warhammer: Assault on Sanity can be anything else.
Im coming to the conclusion that it will be a fun way to play with my fantasy collection for a while, but ultimately the reboot will peeter out as people get tired of self policing.
I was also going to take a dig at the system after I read the summon 10 zombies with a 4 on 2d6 rule until I remembered that there isn't anything stopping you from just deploying as many as you like from the get go.
streetsamurai wrote: Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.
This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.
Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes ...oh and they don't refer to themselves or others as " mentally disabled 12 year olds " .
So tha game has changed and gone in a direction you don't like then stop playing it simple ! . Gw don't owe you anything . So for all means give your money to another plastic toy soldier making company so you can feal more adult .
Well I strolled into the local GW which was very busy, and managed to pick up the last copy of WD with the mini in store
(amusingly you could have as many copies of the magazine only for free as many folk had apparently been buying units worth of the 'free' minis..... probably the right move if they are released separately)
it's a really nice bit of work with only a small patch at the right heel showing the limitation of HIPs moulding, but it is jolly big compared to 'normal' stuff... hopefully this will be limited to the Sigmarites as demigod metal golems and not spill over onto any new stuff for the other realms
CURNOW wrote: Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes
Yeah, adults only do that when a special rule tells them to.
Hey, in Age of Sigmar, if you lose the game do you get a chance to "re-do" the last turn of the game if you scream, cry, and stomp your feet until your opponent is visibly embarrassed by you?
streetsamurai wrote: Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.
This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.
Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes ...oh and they don't refer to themselves or others as " mentally disabled 12 year olds " .
So tha game has changed and gone in a direction you don't like then stop playing it simple ! . Gw don't owe you anything . So for all means give your money to another plastic toy soldier making company so you can feal more adult .
Exalted. Having a mental disability doesn't necessarily make you stupid.
CURNOW wrote: Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes
Yeah, adults only do that when a special rule tells them to.
Hey, in Age of Sigmar, if you lose the game do you get a chance to "re-do" the last turn of the game if you scream, cry, and stomp your feet until your opponent is visibly embarrassed by you?
Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ?
Yes. He owns Mantic games and he can't believe his good fortune.
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TheKbob wrote: My question is, would anyone pay money for these rules if they were typically dressed up with recycled fluff in a setting totally not lifted from The Neverending Story (just a single mote of light, and DREAAAAM)? Like, would you have paid $85 to play this?
I'd be highly suspect of the sensibilities of someone saying yes.
Companies only give away stuff for free... as either a show of good faith to build a following, a la Corvus Belli, or they realize it's not good enough to actually charge for, a la GW. Nothing, absolutely nothing, from their past performance even hints at this being a showing of good faith. They're trying to desperately scrabble together something into a Unique IP™ and then hopefully rekindle the setting.
However, instead of going the intelligent route of a structurally sound base game and allowing their players to go off in random directions, they just crapped the bed instead. The only redeeming factor is it's free and that's it.
That is a damn good question, one which I'll ask to everyone.
If these rules weren't free, and you still had the preview, would you buy them?
I have from being sad about the destruction of my favourite game, actually become generally interested in age of sigmar. They seem to have invested a lot in the minis and my hopes are that they will introduce some point system (the current pdfs only serving for the old armies, so that we can continue using them somewhat even though they seem to be intended to be phased out later. . My hopes is that they will release a point system later and more complicated rules that will make this into a great war-game. Because it has the potential and this seems to be just the introduction for players(that is atleast my hope).
Todosi wrote: Come on! First you kill 30 years of background, then you release Space...i mean Sigmarines with bows and the arrows are on the wrong side of the riser? Really?
Although the arrows are *not* on the wrong side of the riser.
The Sigmarines are obviously using the superior thumb draw (as with all asian archery, such as kyudo).
Perhaps the only redeeming feature of that awful miniature range*
*Not even having nipples on their armour in fear of overzealous american religious hypocrites...
Ok, so warhammer is dead, buried and gone. This new crap isn't warhammer, and to answer the above question, if these rules were not free, no way in hell would I pay for this utter turd, it feels like no effort was made and I'm getting a giant middle finger from gw for my 25 years of loyalty.
I will carry on with 8th and try kow, I will also not spend another penny on gw "fantasy" and I am urging others to do the same in my local area.
What's that famous quote? I don't mind the despair, it's the hope I can't stand.
People have been sailing on the warhammer ship, that ship hit an iceberg and sunk, the survivors are clinging on to driftwood for dear life, hoping to be rescued.
The GW rescue ship sails on past, but people still cling on to hope. (th edition is the illusion, a dying man's dream.
There is nothing from GW's behaviour these past years to suggest they'll ever change. Kirby's sitting in his bunker, waiting for that Tiger battalion to save the day and drive away the rival companies.
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Formosa wrote: Ok, so warhammer is dead, buried and gone. This new crap isn't warhammer, and to answer the above question, if these rules were not free, no way in hell would I pay for this utter turd, it feels like no effort was made and I'm getting a giant middle finger from gw for my 25 years of loyalty.
I will carry on with 8th and try kow, I will also not spend another penny on gw "fantasy" and I am urging others to do the same in my local area.
Welcome aboard the good ship KOW. Right now, I'd quite happily pay Mantic double the price for their stuff.
Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ?
Yes. He owns Mantic games and he can't believe his good fortune.
Ronnie Renton right now
Love it. Even if Mantic games and other rival companies got together for a year, and plotted and schemed a plan to take down GW, no way could they better AOS
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: What's that famous quote? I don't mind the despair, it's the hope I can't stand.
People have been sailing on the warhammer ship, that ship hit an iceberg and sunk, the survivors are clinging on to driftwood for dear life, hoping to be rescued.
The GW rescue ship sails on past, but people still cling on to hope. (th edition is the illusion, a dying man's dream.
There is nothing from GW's behaviour these past years to suggest they'll ever change. Kirby's sitting in his bunker, waiting for that Tiger battalion to save the day and drive away the rival companies.
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Formosa wrote: Ok, so warhammer is dead, buried and gone. This new crap isn't warhammer, and to answer the above question, if these rules were not free, no way in hell would I pay for this utter turd, it feels like no effort was made and I'm getting a giant middle finger from gw for my 25 years of loyalty.
I will carry on with 8th and try kow, I will also not spend another penny on gw "fantasy" and I am urging others to do the same in my local area.
Welcome aboard the good ship KOW. Right now, I'd quite happily pay Mantic double the price for their stuff.
I think your just being a little childish you don't like it move on. I could care less from once the models play so long as they play. My ogres are still in it so, so am I plus I love nurgle/khorne so I am good.
And like I said you hate it move on to post in a topic every what....5th post for the last 7 hours saying you hate it gets a bit old.
I might well buy it - the models I need to see if I like enough for yet another starter set
I really like the rules and hearing good things about tester games / battle reports so yeah maybe - I hope they make some nice card sets of the battlescrolls for the old armies.
The good ship KOW ? Is that sailing from Liverpool ?
Personally I do not like the KOW ruleset and find it is basically old fantasy lite edition, to the point where you may as well move rectangles of cardboard around , it has the most droll background for some time and is made by a company whose sole business plan seems to consist of trolling the competition and running endless Kickstarters to a diminishing amount of backers.
However if people like it, that's great, just kindly stop telling those of us who like the look of this how crap it is and go enjoy the game you profess to love.
Anyone have their hands on the new models and have any advice about assembling or painting them? I want to make sure I don't screw something up in the process (typically there's little things you can do to make things easier, sub-assemblies, etc.)
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: What's that famous quote? I don't mind the despair, it's the hope I can't stand.
People have been sailing on the warhammer ship, that ship hit an iceberg and sunk, the survivors are clinging on to driftwood for dear life, hoping to be rescued.
The GW rescue ship sails on past, but people still cling on to hope. (th edition is the illusion, a dying man's dream.
There is nothing from GW's behaviour these past years to suggest they'll ever change. Kirby's sitting in his bunker, waiting for that Tiger battalion to save the day and drive away the rival companies.
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Formosa wrote: Ok, so warhammer is dead, buried and gone. This new crap isn't warhammer, and to answer the above question, if these rules were not free, no way in hell would I pay for this utter turd, it feels like no effort was made and I'm getting a giant middle finger from gw for my 25 years of loyalty.
I will carry on with 8th and try kow, I will also not spend another penny on gw "fantasy" and I am urging others to do the same in my local area.
Welcome aboard the good ship KOW. Right now, I'd quite happily pay Mantic double the price for their stuff.
I think your just being a little childish you don't like it move on. I could care less from once the models play so long as they play. My ogres are still in it so, so am I plus I love nurgle/khorne so I am good.
And like I said you hate it move on to post in a topic every what....5th post for the last 7 hours saying you hate it gets a bit old.
I agree, I said this earlier, but in my defence, I've had 20 + years of good memories. Hard to let go...
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Shadowclaimer wrote: Anyone have their hands on the new models and have any advice about assembling or painting them? I want to make sure I don't screw something up in the process (typically there's little things you can do to make things easier, sub-assemblies, etc.)
I think they're snap fit and somebody said there's barely a trace of mould lines.
streetsamurai wrote: Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.
This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.
Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes ...oh and they don't refer to themselves or others as " mentally disabled 12 year olds " .
So tha game has changed and gone in a direction you don't like then stop playing it simple ! . Gw don't owe you anything . So for all means give your money to another plastic toy soldier making company so you can feal more adult .
Where did i say that i'll throw my mini out of the pram ???
I'll keep the one I have, as I spent a lot of time converting and painting them, and I
might even use them to play Mordeheim.
And, you can play the relativism game as much as you want, yelling waagh every turn, or riding an imaginary horse 3 times per game (if not more), is only something that will amuse mentaslly disabled 12 years old. Fine if you enjoy that, but most adults won't.
BTW, yes it's true that GW don't owe me anything, but I don't owe them anything at all also, so i'll simply switch my patronage to another company, even if it seems to upset you. And judging by the reaction of most people, I think i won't be alone.
Personally I do not like the KOW ruleset and find it is basically old fantasy lite edition, to the point where you may as well move rectangles of cardboard around , it has the most droll background for some time and is made by a company whose sole business plan seems to consist of trolling the competition and running endless Kickstarters to a diminishing amount of backers.
However if people like it, that's great, just kindly stop telling those of us who like the look of this how crap it is and go enjoy the game you profess to love.
I've yet to play KOW, so I can't say how good it is, but Mantic are pretty up front with their release schedule, so I don't mind waiting until August.
And, you can play the relativism game as much as you want, yelling waagh every turn, or riding an imaginary horse 3 times per game (if not more), is only something that will amuse mentaslly disabled 12 years old
Yeah and good ridence with that grumpy, judgemental attitude telling us what and how we should have our fun.
Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram
Where did i say that i'll throw my mini out of the pram ???
I'll keep the one I have, as I spent a lot of time converting and painting them, and I
might even use them to play Mordeheim.
And, you can play the relativism game as much as you want, yelling waagh every turn, or riding an imaginary horse 3 times per game (if not more), is only something that will amuse mentaslly disabled 12 years old. Fine if you enjoy that, but most adults won't.
1. "Throwing your toys out of the pram" is a euphemism for having a tantrum, it doesn't mean you're going to physically throw your models out of a pram (do you spend a lot of time in a pram? Presumably not? If so, weird)
2. Stop co-opting disabilities for jokes, point-scoring, insults, whatever.
daemonish wrote: Did I miss something in the rules, what does the star mean in place of a stat?
There's a table underneath the statline that shows what the value is, because it changes depending on how many wounds the model has taken. Confused me at first.
One other thing I haven't see anyone else mention.
Where does this leave warhammer:total war? If GW have pulled the plug on the universe does it show a lack of faith in the IP or could this all be a cunning ruse to make us all buy higher speck PCs to play digital retrohammer?!
daemonish wrote: Did I miss something in the rules, what does the star mean in place of a stat?
There's a table underneath the statline that shows what the value is, because it changes depending on how many wounds the model has taken. Confused me at first.
I had to look twice but I do like it - not seen it before and seems a clever thing
Mantic could really profit from this AOS fiasco. But to do so, they'll have to invest a lot in the quality of their models. Right now, I have no interest of buying any of Mantic models, except for their undead.
I don't see how me playing their games with GW mini help them at the end of the day, cause until they manage to be almost on par with GW quality wise, most people wont buy them
Shadowclaimer wrote: Anyone have their hands on the new models and have any advice about assembling or painting them? I want to make sure I don't screw something up in the process (typically there's little things you can do to make things easier, sub-assemblies, etc.)
I think they're snap fit and somebody said there's barely a trace of mould lines.
I think they need glue actually. I'm not sure because I haven't seen it but I seem to recall someone saying they were proper models, not snap fit ones. But they're still monopose.
Played against a giant today. Terrifying. He starts out with 4d6 for his club, a nasty headbutt and a punt. I did what i could to take him down, and it brought him down to 1d6 on the club. He still killed some stuff, then when my chariot killed him, he fell and killed the Gorebeast Chariot
Not sure if you're referencing something deeper, my maritime history references are a little thin I'll admit, but the Titanic sailed from Southampton, if that's what you're driving at?
Personally I do not like the KOW ruleset and find it is basically old fantasy lite edition, to the point where you may as well move rectangles of cardboard around , it has the most droll background for some time and is made by a company whose sole business plan seems to consist of trolling the competition and running endless Kickstarters to a diminishing amount of backers.
As opposed to a company that releases ever increasing quantities of product with slowly declining quality to a diminishing amount of customers, indulges in (and loses) tenuous litigation and refusing to acknowledge the existence of the competition?
(Oh, and I'm no player, but KoW v2 launches next week, so you never know, the changes may send it right up your street.)
However if people like it, that's great, just kindly stop telling those of us who like the look of this how crap it is and go enjoy the game you profess to love.
Why? Are you so insecure about your own ability to judge the quality of something that you're afraid strangers on the Internet my make you think differently from how you want? Just crack on enjoying the game you profess to love and sod what other people are saying.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: What's that famous quote? I don't mind the despair, it's the hope I can't stand.
People have been sailing on the warhammer ship, that ship hit an iceberg and sunk, the survivors are clinging on to driftwood for dear life, hoping to be rescued.
The GW rescue ship sails on past, but people still cling on to hope. (th edition is the illusion, a dying man's dream.
There is nothing from GW's behaviour these past years to suggest they'll ever change. Kirby's sitting in his bunker, waiting for that Tiger battalion to save the day and drive away the rival companies.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formosa wrote: Ok, so warhammer is dead, buried and gone. This new crap isn't warhammer, and to answer the above question, if these rules were not free, no way in hell would I pay for this utter turd, it feels like no effort was made and I'm getting a giant middle finger from gw for my 25 years of loyalty.
I will carry on with 8th and try kow, I will also not spend another penny on gw "fantasy" and I am urging others to do the same in my local area.
Welcome aboard the good ship KOW. Right now, I'd quite happily pay Mantic double the price for their stuff.
I think your just being a little childish you don't like it move on. I could care less from once the models play so long as they play. My ogres are still in it so, so am I plus I love nurgle/khorne so I am good.
And like I said you hate it move on to post in a topic every what....5th post for the last 7 hours saying you hate it gets a bit old.
I agree, I said this earlier, but in my defence, I've had 20 + years of good memories. Hard to let go...
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Shadowclaimer wrote: Anyone have their hands on the new models and have any advice about assembling or painting them? I want to make sure I don't screw something up in the process (typically there's little things you can do to make things easier, sub-assemblies, etc.)
I think they're snap fit and somebody said there's barely a trace of mould lines.
I feel like i was a bit agressive so i do say sorry for that. I just dont get it tho, it is not like devorce you do not lose halfyour stuff or pay them out. Sell your core keep your show pieces find a different game transfer some models or sell them off and get some money for a new hobby. Nothing buisnesse related lasts forever thing chang die out and are remade. Look at thundercats, terminator, transformers ect.
What it was will never be again you change and so to does the auidance. Of course they dumbed down the rules they have too. The player base is getting younger and need instant profit. If they walk in see a book they walk out, hell the age of books are dyeing out and going digatal i had to fight with visa for twenty minutes to get paper statement.
We get older and the market need to change with the times. Oldder we get less we spend on hobbies alot to do with the finical crap that just hit world wide and we geting over. Kids need to pick this hobby up and they want things easyer and fun NOW not to read or do math. I still miss the feeling of getting the new hard cover edition the new novel or codex and knowing i had a good read ahead pf me, hell even loved the new book amell. Now it all hey you want to read get your tablet want to talk get your text phone.
daemonish wrote: Did I miss something in the rules, what does the star mean in place of a stat?
There's a table underneath the statline that shows what the value is, because it changes depending on how many wounds the model has taken. Confused me at first.
I had to look twice but I do like it - not seen it before and seems a clever thing
Yeah, it's nifty. And in the old format it'd be a bugger, because you'd have to consult the book all the time.
mikhaila wrote: Played against a giant today. Terrifying. He starts out with 4d6 for his club, a nasty headbutt and a punt. I did what i could to take him down, and it brought him down to 1d6 on the club. He still killed some stuff, then when my chariot killed him, he fell and killed the Gorebeast Chariot
Sounds great fun - tell us more about the game please
streetsamurai wrote: Mantic could really profit from this AOS fiasco. But to do so, they'll have to invest a lot in the quality of their models. Right now, I have no interest of buying any of Mantic models, except for their undead.
I don't see how me playing their games with GW mini help them at the end of the day, cause until they manage to be almost on par with GW quality wise, most people wont buy them
New stuff coming from the last KS is top notch, the Abyssals may be a marmite case (like AoS) though. They really do improve from KS to KS, which of course because of those funds they can expand and do things they wouldn't previously be able to do.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: What's that famous quote? I don't mind the despair, it's the hope I can't stand.
People have been sailing on the warhammer ship, that ship hit an iceberg and sunk, the survivors are clinging on to driftwood for dear life, hoping to be rescued.
The GW rescue ship sails on past, but people still cling on to hope. (th edition is the illusion, a dying man's dream.
There is nothing from GW's behaviour these past years to suggest they'll ever change. Kirby's sitting in his bunker, waiting for that Tiger battalion to save the day and drive away the rival companies.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formosa wrote: Ok, so warhammer is dead, buried and gone. This new crap isn't warhammer, and to answer the above question, if these rules were not free, no way in hell would I pay for this utter turd, it feels like no effort was made and I'm getting a giant middle finger from gw for my 25 years of loyalty.
I will carry on with 8th and try kow, I will also not spend another penny on gw "fantasy" and I am urging others to do the same in my local area.
Welcome aboard the good ship KOW. Right now, I'd quite happily pay Mantic double the price for their stuff.
I think your just being a little childish you don't like it move on. I could care less from once the models play so long as they play. My ogres are still in it so, so am I plus I love nurgle/khorne so I am good.
And like I said you hate it move on to post in a topic every what....5th post for the last 7 hours saying you hate it gets a bit old.
I agree, I said this earlier, but in my defence, I've had 20 + years of good memories. Hard to let go...
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Shadowclaimer wrote: Anyone have their hands on the new models and have any advice about assembling or painting them? I want to make sure I don't screw something up in the process (typically there's little things you can do to make things easier, sub-assemblies, etc.)
I think they're snap fit and somebody said there's barely a trace of mould lines.
I feel like i was a bit agressive so i do say sorry for that. I just dont get it tho, it is not like devorce you do not lose halfyour stuff or pay them out. Sell your core keep your show pieces find a different game transfer some models or sell them off and get some money for a new hobby. Nothing buisnesse related lasts forever thing chang die out and are remade. Look at thundercats, terminator, transformers ect.
What it was will never be again you change and so to does the auidance. Of course they dumbed down the rules they have too. The player base is getting younger and need instant profit. If they walk in see a book they walk out, hell the age of books are dyeing out and going digatal i had to fight with visa for twenty minutes to get paper statement.
We get older and the market need to change with the times. Oldder we get less we spend on hobbies alot to do with the finical crap that just hit world wide and we Are just geting over. Kids need to pick this hobby up and they want things easyer and fun NOW not to read or do math. I still miss the feeling of getting the new hard cover edition the new novel or codex and knowing i had a good read ahead Of me, hell even loved the new book amell. Now it all hey you want to read get your tablet want to talk get your text phone.
streetsamurai wrote: And, you can play the relativism game as much as you want, yelling waagh every turn, or riding an imaginary horse 3 times per game (if not more), is only something that will amuse mentaslly disabled 12 years old..
This is just pointlessly offensive. Some people like things you don't. That doesn't make them mentally disabled. Please refrain from making statements like this in the future.
OgreChubbs wrote: Oldder we get less we spend on hobbies alot to do with the finical crap that just hit world wide and we geting over. .
Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. I have a disposable income that dwarfs what I had when I was younger. My bills have doubled in the time my income has quadrupled. I know I'm lucky, but my point is that adults in the west generally have a good chunk more spare cash than kids do.
Delicate Swarm wrote: "Games Workshop is in the business of selling toy soldiers to children." - Tom Kirby, Chairman of Games Workshop PLC
"Our market is a niche market made up of people who want to collect our miniatures. They tend to be male, middle-class, discerning teenagers and adults. " - Tom Kirby, Chairman of Games Workshop PLC
So it seems even Tom Kirby isn't too sure just who their customers actually are...
New Zealand and Australia are different countries.
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off.
That's just it, though... If those rules are going to be ignored in the majority of games, then there's really no point in them being there in the first place.
Unless, of course, you're only expecting your customers to play the game a couple of times before moving on to something else...
For those frustrated with GW right now, there are so many amazing games out there that it would be a shame to waste time and effort on a game you're only begrudgingly getting into.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: What's that famous quote? I don't mind the despair, it's the hope I can't stand.
People have been sailing on the warhammer ship, that ship hit an iceberg and sunk, the survivors are clinging on to driftwood for dear life, hoping to be rescued.
The GW rescue ship sails on past, but people still cling on to hope. (th edition is the illusion, a dying man's dream.
There is nothing from GW's behaviour these past years to suggest they'll ever change. Kirby's sitting in his bunker, waiting for that Tiger battalion to save the day and drive away the rival companies.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formosa wrote: Ok, so warhammer is dead, buried and gone. This new crap isn't warhammer, and to answer the above question, if these rules were not free, no way in hell would I pay for this utter turd, it feels like no effort was made and I'm getting a giant middle finger from gw for my 25 years of loyalty.
I will carry on with 8th and try kow, I will also not spend another penny on gw "fantasy" and I am urging others to do the same in my local area.
Welcome aboard the good ship KOW. Right now, I'd quite happily pay Mantic double the price for their stuff.
I think your just being a little childish you don't like it move on. I could care less from once the models play so long as they play. My ogres are still in it so, so am I plus I love nurgle/khorne so I am good.
And like I said you hate it move on to post in a topic every what....5th post for the last 7 hours saying you hate it gets a bit old.
I agree, I said this earlier, but in my defence, I've had 20 + years of good memories. Hard to let go...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadowclaimer wrote: Anyone have their hands on the new models and have any advice about assembling or painting them? I want to make sure I don't screw something up in the process (typically there's little things you can do to make things easier, sub-assemblies, etc.)
I think they're snap fit and somebody said there's barely a trace of mould lines.
I feel like i was a bit agressive so i do say sorry for that. I just dont get it tho, it is not like devorce you do not lose halfyour stuff or pay them out. Sell your core keep your show pieces find a different game transfer some models or sell them off and get some money for a new hobby. Nothing buisnesse related lasts forever thing chang die out and are remade. Look at thundercats, terminator, transformers ect.
What it was will never be again you change and so to does the auidance. Of course they dumbed down the rules they have too. The player base is getting younger and need instant profit. If they walk in see a book they walk out, hell the age of books are dyeing out and going digatal i had to fight with visa for twenty minutes to get paper statement.
We get older and the market need to change with the times. Oldder we get less we spend on hobbies alot to do with the finical crap that just hit world wide and we geting over. Kids need to pick this hobby up and they want things easyer and fun NOW not to read or do math. I still miss the feeling of getting the new hard cover edition the new novel or codex and knowing i had a good read ahead pf me, hell even loved the new book amell. Now it all hey you want to read get your tablet want to talk get your text phone.
No need to apologise.
For the record, I'll make one thing clear: I think AOS is a steaming pile of gak, and I'd go back in time and buy a return ticket for the Titanic, before I ever bought AOS.
But I hope I'm not putting people off buying it. If you love it, and want to buy it, good luck to you. Have fun with it. I've never been one for spoiling other people's mini wargaming fun, and I hope they get a lot of good times out of AOs, if that's your thing.
streetsamurai wrote: Mantic could really profit from this AOS fiasco. But to do so, they'll have to invest a lot in the quality of their models. Right now, I have no interest of buying any of Mantic models, except for their undead.
I don't see how me playing their games with GW mini help them at the end of the day, cause until they manage to be almost on par with GW quality wise, most people wont buy them
New stuff coming from the last KS is top notch, the Abyssals may be a marmite case (like AoS) though. They really do improve from KS to KS, which of course because of those funds they can expand and do things they wouldn't previously be able to do.
Well, iirc, they still use restic, and the level of detail you can get with it is not as good as with HIps.
MWHistorian wrote: For those frustrated with GW right now, there are so many amazing games out there that it would be a shame to waste time and effort on a game you're only begrudgingly getting into.
One step ahead of you. I'm getting into KOW, but Judge Dredd miniature game is absolutely BLOODY Brilliant!
Cheap to buy, quick to play, good rules. Great game. I recommend it for people looking for a good sci-fi skirmish game.
I think a lot of people are over-estimating the fact that money not spent on WHFB / AOS will go straight to Mantic. From the pictures of todays Mantic Clash Of King's regionals a lot of the armies are non Mantic (which they approve), so if they are not getting the money for the miniatures, and the rules are free where is the money coming from?
Spoilered pics of GW/ other companies minis at the event:
Spoiler:
GW 3rd edition Dark Elves vs Goblins (company unknown/ GW)
WHFB Skaven vs Mantic Orcs
I have followed Mantic from the start, I cannot remember the last big model release for KOW. Obviously that will change with 2nd Edition, but will anyone buy them? It seems to me that a lot of disgruntled WHFB already have all the minis they will ever need for all the armies that they will ever want. They may buy a rulebook, so £30 odd goes to Mantic. After that?
I think a lot of people are over-estimating the fact that money not spent on WHFB / AOS will go straight to Mantic. From the pictures of todays Mantic Clash Of King's regionals a lot of the armies are non Mantic (which they approve), so if they are not getting the money for the miniatures, and the rules are free where is the money coming from?
Spoilered pics of GW/ other companies minis at the event:
Spoiler:
GW 3rd edition Dark Elves vs Goblins (company unknown/ GW)
WHFB Skaven vs Mantic Orcs
I have followed Mantic from the start, I cannot remember the last big model release for KOW. Obviously that will change with 2nd Edition, but will anyone buy them? It seems to me that a lot of disgruntled WHFB already have all the minis they will ever need for all the armies that they will ever want. They may buy a rulebook, so £30 odd goes to Mantic. After that?
yep, couldn't said it any better. Unless Mantic release incredible new minis, people will only use the GW mini to play their game, and they won't profit much from it. And at this point, they haven't shown that they are able to do so.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: What's that famous quote? I don't mind the despair, it's the hope I can't stand.
People have been sailing on the warhammer ship, that ship hit an iceberg and sunk, the survivors are clinging on to driftwood for dear life, hoping to be rescued.
The GW rescue ship sails on past, but people still cling on to hope. (th edition is the illusion, a dying man's dream.
There is nothing from GW's behaviour these past years to suggest they'll ever change. Kirby's sitting in his bunker, waiting for that Tiger battalion to save the day and drive away the rival companies.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formosa wrote: Ok, so warhammer is dead, buried and gone. This new crap isn't warhammer, and to answer the above question, if these rules were not free, no way in hell would I pay for this utter turd, it feels like no effort was made and I'm getting a giant middle finger from gw for my 25 years of loyalty.
I will carry on with 8th and try kow, I will also not spend another penny on gw "fantasy" and I am urging others to do the same in my local area.
Welcome aboard the good ship KOW. Right now, I'd quite happily pay Mantic double the price for their stuff.
I think your just being a little childish you don't like it move on. I could care less from once the models play so long as they play. My ogres are still in it so, so am I plus I love nurgle/khorne so I am good.
And like I said you hate it move on to post in a topic every what....5th post for the last 7 hours saying you hate it gets a bit old.
I agree, I said this earlier, but in my defence, I've had 20 + years of good memories. Hard to let go...
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Shadowclaimer wrote: Anyone have their hands on the new models and have any advice about assembling or painting them? I want to make sure I don't screw something up in the process (typically there's little things you can do to make things easier, sub-assemblies, etc.)
I think they're snap fit and somebody said there's barely a trace of mould lines.
I feel like i was a bit agressive so i do say sorry for that. I just dont get it tho, it is not like devorce you do not lose halfyour stuff or pay them out. Sell your core keep your show pieces find a different game transfer some models or sell them off and get some money for a new hobby. Nothing buisnesse related lasts forever thing chang die out and are remade. Look at thundercats, terminator, transformers ect.
What it was will never be again you change and so to does the auidance. Of course they dumbed down the rules they have too. The player base is getting younger and need instant profit. If they walk in see a book they walk out, hell the age of books are dyeing out and going digatal i had to fight with visa for twenty minutes to get paper statement.
We get older and the market need to change with the times. Oldder we get less we spend on hobbies alot to do with the finical crap that just hit world wide and we geting over. Kids need to pick this hobby up and they want things easyer and fun NOW not to read or do math. I still miss the feeling of getting the new hard cover edition the new novel or codex and knowing i had a good read ahead pf me, hell even loved the new book amell. Now it all hey you want to read get your tablet want to talk get your text phone.
No need to apologise.
For the record, I'll make one thing clear: I think AOS is a steaming pile of gak, and I'd go back in time and buy a return ticket for the Titanic, before I ever bought AOS.
But I hope I'm not putting people off buying it. If you love it, and want to buy it, good luck to you. Have fun with it. I've never been one for spoiling other people's mini wargaming fun, and I hope they get a lot of good times out of AOs, if that's your thing.
Heres is the thing tho mate, the rules are free you have the models. If you give the game a go even on your spare time you are really risking or losing nothing and giving them not a single dollar more. You see if things work FOR FREE !!!!! :d which is what won me over... and the fact the starter has khorne in it lol
I think a lot of people are over-estimating the fact that money not spent on WHFB / AOS will go straight to Mantic. From the pictures of todays Mantic Clash Of King's regionals a lot of the armies are non Mantic (which they approve), so if they are not getting the money for the miniatures, and the rules are free where is the money coming from?
Spoilered pics of GW/ other companies minis at the event:
Spoiler:
GW 3rd edition Dark Elves vs Goblins (company unknown/ GW)
WHFB Skaven vs Mantic Orcs
I have followed Mantic from the start, I cannot remember the last big model release for KOW. Obviously that will change with 2nd Edition, but will anyone buy them? It seems to me that a lot of disgruntled WHFB already have all the minis they will ever need for all the armies that they will ever want. They may buy a rulebook, so £30 odd goes to Mantic. After that?
yep, couldn't said it any better. Unless Mantic release incredible new minis, people will only use the GW mini to play their game, and they won't profit much from it. And at this point, they haven't shown that they are able to do so.
If I had to hazard a guess, it's only a matter of time.
Mantic now = GW about 20 years ago. While I'd agree that there's a lot of minis I'd not buy from Mantic, there's not really a lot of GW models from 20 years ago I'd buy over their modern equivalents either. I'm assuming, given time, Mantic will improve the tech and recruit or develop the talent to improve their quality. I suspect it won't take 20 years to catch up though, and in the mean time, I'm sure they're doing just fine churning out unit fillers, nobody needs a £1 GW skeleton for 4th rank, 2nd file, when a 30p Mantic one does just as well.
The "smart adults" could see the writing on the wall and sold off while the overall value of their minis was still high. Probably made money off my 40k/Fantasy lots because I was a patient buy low/sell high type (same with Warmachine now!). If the transition to 6E in 40k, and then the asinine 6E to 7E transition, are both any indicator, this isn't going to get tighter in game design, but looser and more RANDOM=FUN! style stuff. Now with 100% more armpit farts and charades.
Give it a go, by all means, if you got a standard lot of players and can house rule some sort of agreed upon list building means, but otherwise, the game is dead in competitive format. And I will argue that the latter is what keeps games afloat in the profitable sense. Meta chasers make money.
I think a lot of people are over-estimating the fact that money not spent on WHFB / AOS will go straight to Mantic. From the pictures of todays Mantic Clash Of King's regionals a lot of the armies are non Mantic (which they approve), so if they are not getting the money for the miniatures, and the rules are free where is the money coming from?
Spoilered pics of GW/ other companies minis at the event:
Spoiler:
GW 3rd edition Dark Elves vs Goblins (company unknown/ GW)
WHFB Skaven vs Mantic Orcs
I have followed Mantic from the start, I cannot remember the last big model release for KOW. Obviously that will change with 2nd Edition, but will anyone buy them? It seems to me that a lot of disgruntled WHFB already have all the minis they will ever need for all the armies that they will ever want. They may buy a rulebook, so £30 odd goes to Mantic. After that?
The goblins are mantic figures too tho not their best plastic kit.
Azreal13 wrote: I'm sure they're doing just fine churning out unit fillers, nobody needs a £1 GW skeleton for 4th rank, 2nd file, when a 30p Mantic one does just as well.
This. Since my GW fall out, I've started to view my gaming minis as classy chits and I keep funds for the artistic ones that are lavished in intelligent detail (not lulz-skullz!) at larger scale for my painting funsies. You don't need a name, a backstory, and bonkers paint job for Skeleton #42.
streetsamurai wrote: Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.
This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.
Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes ...oh and they don't refer to themselves or others as " mentally disabled 12 year olds " .
So tha game has changed and gone in a direction you don't like then stop playing it simple ! . Gw don't owe you anything . So for all means give your money to another plastic toy soldier making company so you can feal more adult .
I'm sorry, but you must not spend a lot of time around other adults if this is what you truly think
Most people don't respond well to change at all, especially unasked-for and unwanted change.
If GW was just a company selling action figures the "GW don't owe you anything" meme would hold more ground. As long as they present their product as a game and they expect us to continually keep spending a lot of money on items necessary to play said game, then "they damn sure owe us something". It is a mutual investment. We invest in their product, and they invest in delivering a product we deem worthy of investing in. That is how a healthy relationship between a company and a customer should work.
Even though I would perhaps prefer to use different words I do perfectly understand where his "mentally disabled 12 year old" rhetoric comes from, as all these circus acts they apparently thought we'd think would be so super lolzorz to trigger special effects are nothing more than a humongous steaming pile of horse gack, IMHO as a customer.
Azreal13 wrote: I'm sure they're doing just fine churning out unit fillers, nobody needs a £1 GW skeleton for 4th rank, 2nd file, when a 30p Mantic one does just as well.
This. Since my GW fall out, I've started to view my gaming minis as classy chits and I keep funds for the artistic ones that are lavished in intelligent detail (not lulz-skullz!) at larger scale for my painting funsies. You don't need a name, a backstory, and bonkers paint job for Skeleton #42.
I went the opposite direction. After I left GW games, I started to look at gaming in a different light. I embrace what makes that game what it is and sink into the fluff and the minis. But I am no longer faithful to one game. I am polygamous with equal love to throw around.
Heres is the thing tho mate, the rules are free you have the models. If you give the game a go even on your spare time you are really risking or losing nothing and giving them not a single dollar more. You see if things work FOR FREE !!!!! :d which is what won me over... and the fact the starter has khorne in it lol
KoW is free as well, but unlike this its actually balanced, tactical (positioning, flanks and rear attacks matter), streamlined and the rules are playable! (no endless debates about rules interpretations or whats balanced)
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off.
That's just it, though... If those rules are going to be ignored in the majority of games, then there's really no point in them being there in the first place.
Unless, of course, you're only expecting your customers to play the game a couple of times before moving on to something else...
I see what you're trying to do there but the comedy rules are in the legacy warscrolls, the new units don't have them. Yes, the expectation is that the legacy stuff will be superceded by new rules that better represent the factions of the new fluff in time, or else gradually phased out, so yes - it's not an issue that people will stop doing the silly voices etc before long.
1st sprues: Renendra plastic Elves. Great sprues, the designs were not great though (IMO), some loved them. Plenty of options.
2nd Sprues: Renendra Skeletons/Ghouls/Zombies. Great. For many the go to Zombie sprues whether playing fantasy or sci-fi games. But the ghouls and zombies had greatly reduced variety compared to the skeletons.
3rd. Dwarfs. Rendra again. Goodish sprues, some merged details.
Thereafter came the Orcs, great detail fine variety. And then Mantic moved to China and here came the terrible, melted detail Goblin sprues.
Then: The original KS and The Basileans and multiple terrible sculpts (YMMV) in restic. Poor detailing, poor models and a general cluster that lost a lot of customers who had given Mantic their first, and only, chance.
Thereafter we have had the odd metal release. However, there is hope as Mantic's plastic production for Deadzone has seen improved plastic sprues from China.
Next up for KOW are these:
Spoiler:
Will they win over GW exiles?
And again more unit fillers means less miniatures sold and less moey in the Mantic coffers.
I haven't been following Mantic releases, because I hadn't been sold on them so far. They had been nearly getting there... but that is a massive leap backwards.
streetsamurai wrote: Wow, I can't belive that they actually tought that this lame game will revive fantasy. Is there an intelligent person left in nottingham ? This is a farce. The core rules are bland and uninteresting in themselves, and then, you have these childish gimmicks, and no way to balance forces against each other.
This is so bad, that I actually think i'll even stop playing 40k, and give my money to a company who actually treat me like an adylt, and not a mentally disabled 12 years old.
Most adults act like adults and don't throw their toys out of the pram because something changes ...oh and they don't refer to themselves or others as " mentally disabled 12 year olds " .
So tha game has changed and gone in a direction you don't like then stop playing it simple ! . Gw don't owe you anything . So for all means give your money to another plastic toy soldier making company so you can feal more adult .
I'm sorry, but you must not spend a lot of time around other adults if this is what you truly think
Most people don't respond well to change at all, especially unasked-for and unwanted change.
If GW was just a company selling action figures the "GW don't owe you anything" meme would hold more ground. As long as they present their product as a game and they expect us to continually keep spending a lot of money on items necessary to play said game, then "they damn sure owe us something". It is a mutual investment. We invest in their product, and they invest in delivering a product we deem worthy of investing in. That is how a healthy relationship between a company and a customer should work.
Even though I would perhaps prefer to use different words I do perfectly understand where his "mentally disabled 12 year old" rhetoric comes from, as all these circus acts they apparently thought we'd think would be so super lolzorz to trigger special effects are nothing more than a humongous steaming pile of horse gack, IMHO as a customer.
Thats the thing though, people weren't investing enough into the game and so GW owe you nothing, sure you may have invested a lot over the last however long you played but recent times very few people were, not enough to sustain a viable product (business 101). So one way or another WHFB was dead, no allegiance owed, people didn't buy enough to sustain it. So rather then ditch it altogether they instead used its nurgle ridden carcass to create something new, whether you like the new stuff or not is a personal choice. Whether this "new" thing is going to sell or not is yet to be seen. I, like many here, believe they need some way of building lists, do that and I think it will do ok especially if they continue to release fantastic models like the end times and AoS box. If they dont do that then I think it will founder.
Personally I am going to wait and see, from what i have seen of the new lore I am loving it but that will depend on how fleshed out they go with it, it will fail if they rely on models alone. The biggest thing for me is the list building, I am not worried about balance, you CANT balance a game with this many factions and still have it fun (40k is the most unbalanced game on the tabletop but its still fun) just give me a way to build armies out of new stuff and old and I will be happy.
I haven't been following Mantic releases, because I hadn't been sold on them so far. They had been nearly getting there... but that is a massive leap backwards.
Not for me, and I'm not saying that because of my AOS disappointment. I'd happily have those models on my side of the table.
I would give them 8/10 as a rating.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote: Those look likje they'd fit better as daemonettes than bloodletters.
Thats the thing though, people weren't investing enough into the game and so GW owe you nothing, sure you may have invested a lot over the last however long you played but recent times very few people were, not enough to sustain a viable product (business 101).
Yes, that will happen when you turn your product into something your existing customers no longer want.
GW had the choice of fixing WHFB to entice those lapsed customers back into the fold, or scrapping it and starting over with something else. They went for the latter. It's not at all surprising that this decision would upset those lapsed (and the remaining few) customers who would have preferred to have 'their' game back.
1st sprues: Renendra plastic Elves. Great sprues, the designs were not great though (IMO), some loved them. Plenty of options.
2nd Sprues: Renendra Skeletons/Ghouls/Zombies. Great. For many the go to Zombie sprues whether playing fantasy or sci-fi games. But the ghouls and zombies had greatly reduced variety compared to the skeletons.
3rd. Dwarfs. Rendra again. Goodish sprues, some merged details.
Thereafter came the Orcs, great detail fine variety. And then Mantic moved to China and here came the terrible, melted detail Goblin sprues.
Then: The original KS and The Basileans and multiple terrible sculpts (YMMV) in restic. Poor detailing, poor models and a general cluster that lost a lot of customers who had given Mantic their first, and only, chance.
Thereafter we have had the odd metal release. However, there is hope as Mantic's plastic production for Deadzone has seen improved plastic sprues from China.
Next up for KOW are these:
Spoiler:
Will they win over GW exiles?
And again more unit fillers means less miniatures sold and less moey in the Mantic coffers.
I love Mantic minis, especially the undead. I havev a fairly large purcahse planned, and then I'll d more as they plan to release models for the armies they support at the core rules (sans lizardmen and skaven).
Fezza213 wrote: Thats the thing though, people weren't investing enough into the game and so GW owe you nothing, sure you may have invested a lot over the last however long you played but recent times very few people were, not enough to sustain a viable product (business 101). So one way or another WHFB was dead, no allegiance owed, people didn't buy enough to sustain it. So rather then ditch it altogether they instead used its nurgle ridden carcass to create something new, whether you like the new stuff or not is a personal choice. Whether this "new" thing is going to sell or not is yet to be seen. I, like many here, believe they need some way of building lists, do that and I think it will do ok especially if they continue to release fantastic models like the end times and AoS box. If they dont do that then I think it will founder.
Personally I am going to wait and see, from what i have seen of the new lore I am loving it but that will depend on how fleshed out they go with it, it will fail if they rely on models alone. The biggest thing for me is the list building, I am not worried about balance, you CANT balance a game with this many factions and still have it fun (40k is the most unbalanced game on the tabletop but its still fun) just give me a way to build armies out of new stuff and old and I will be happy.
Yeah, I agree with your first part entirely.
GW still makes all models for the old game. If you like the old game, nothing stops you from playing it, but there weren't enough people spending money on it to sustain, so they had to try something new -- or eventually, they would have just stopped selling it anyhow. I mean, what store wants to devote shelf space to a product that doesn't move? It costs money to have boxes sitting there. And WHFB is usually near 40k, which in most stores has fantastic visibility.
From the perspective of a 40k player who is solidly into that game, Fantasy was not as appealing, and therefore would not have been a primary game, and there was zero chance I would have played Fantasy as a SECONDARY game, because the model requirements are way too high to be something to play very occasionally. Like, I collect and paint Infinity models, and I don't care that I might play one game every edition of the rules, because the army is tiny. But I'm not going to paint 200+ miniatures that are extremely repetitive (ranked up trays) to play twice a year. So from that perspective, AoS is more likely to have me play as a secondary/alternative/time filler game (if it's fun).
I think it would be GREAT to have a way to build lists. However, GW doesn't seem to want to do that (a conscious decision). The community, I'm certain, will have a points list pretty quickly.
Perhaps the real irony is that the community created points list will probably be more balanced than any points list that GW would have published as a first edition (or second... or third...).
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off.
That's just it, though... If those rules are going to be ignored in the majority of games, then there's really no point in them being there in the first place.
Unless, of course, you're only expecting your customers to play the game a couple of times before moving on to something else...
I see what you're trying to do there but the comedy rules are in the legacy warscrolls, the new units don't have them. Yes, the expectation is that the legacy stuff will be superceded by new rules that better represent the factions of the new fluff in time, or else gradually phased out, so yes - it's not an issue that people will stop doing the silly voices etc before long.
So they just released these new rules not even one day ago and already the faith of many a WHF player's enjoyment of the game rests on the expectation that another set of replacement rules may or may not be provided to us at some point in the future...
@Xyxox: me too,but the majority of Undead are from 2010.
My all Mantic Undead army:
Spoiler:
and Abyssal Dwarf's
For me, in an ideal World both GW and Mantic will continue to prosper. But I am far more excited by AOS than any Mantic release. Why? I paint and model rather than game.
I like the simplicity of "the Avian Way" of specifying maximum Unit Size*,
(ToHit x ToWound)/Wounds=Unit Size
i.e.
DE Bleakswords would be (3x4)/1 = max 12 models/warscroll.
DE Darkshards would be (5x4)/1 = max 20 models/warscroll.
DE Dark Riders would be (5x4)/2 = max 10 models/warscroll.
Would make an excellent starting point.
However, as Save is as important as Wounds in order to survive, Save should be part of the equation.
And special rules aswell (rend, mortal wounds, darkshields, etc.), 9 Executioners are way better than 12 Bleakswords.
*Unit size is also more suited to AoS and the Warscrolls than a points value/model.
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off.
That's just it, though... If those rules are going to be ignored in the majority of games, then there's really no point in them being there in the first place.
Unless, of course, you're only expecting your customers to play the game a couple of times before moving on to something else...
I see what you're trying to do there but the comedy rules are in the legacy warscrolls, the new units don't have them. Yes, the expectation is that the legacy stuff will be superceded by new rules that better represent the factions of the new fluff in time, or else gradually phased out, so yes - it's not an issue that people will stop doing the silly voices etc before long.
So they just released these new rules not even one day ago and already the faith of many a WHF player's enjoyment of the game rests on the expectation that another set of replacement rules may or may not be provided to us at some point in the future...
No, you misunderstand, I think this is it for rules for the existing line but doubtless more stuff will be added to the game in the future and the old stuff will be phased out. How you got "you're expecting another set of replacement rules" from that I have no idea.
Thats the thing though, people weren't investing enough into the game and so GW owe you nothing, sure you may have invested a lot over the last however long you played but recent times very few people were, not enough to sustain a viable product (business 101). So one way or another WHFB was dead, no allegiance owed, people didn't buy enough to sustain it. So rather then ditch it altogether they instead used its nurgle ridden carcass to create something new, whether you like the new stuff or not is a personal choice. Whether this "new" thing is going to sell or not is yet to be seen. I, like many here, believe they need some way of building lists, do that and I think it will do ok especially if they continue to release fantastic models like the end times and AoS box. If they dont do that then I think it will founder.
Personally I am going to wait and see, from what i have seen of the new lore I am loving it but that will depend on how fleshed out they go with it, it will fail if they rely on models alone. The biggest thing for me is the list building, I am not worried about balance, you CANT balance a game with this many factions and still have it fun (40k is the most unbalanced game on the tabletop but its still fun) just give me a way to build armies out of new stuff and old and I will be happy.
It might just be very possible that people did not invest in the game because GW did not provide us with a good enough rule set.
This has been clearly voiced by a great many folks for a great many years, but certain people in Nottingham never appeared to be interested in listening.
kendoka wrote: I like the simplicity of "the Avian Way" of specifying maximum Unit Size*,
(ToHit x ToWound)/Wounds=Unit Size
i.e.
DE Bleakswords would be (3x4)/1 = max 12 models/warscroll.
DE Darkshards would be (5x4)/1 = max 20 models/warscroll.
DE Dark Riders would be (5x4)/2 = max 10 models/warscroll.
Would make an excellent starting point.
However, as Save is as important as Wounds in order to survive, Save should be part of the equation.
And special rules aswell (rend, mortal wounds, darkshields, etc.), 9 Executioners are way better than 12 Bleakswords.
*Unit size is also more suited to AoS and the Warscrolls than a points value/model.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: If we now have a "living rulebook" and warscrolls is there any chance of GW adding points/ a balance element if there is a big enough outcry about it?
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: If we now have a "living rulebook" and warscrolls is there any chance of GW adding points/ a balance element if there is a big enough outcry about it?
No, because there is nobody to hear that outcry.
That was my first thought. I guess that red shirts could pass it "upwards" but those ivory towers are difficult to scale.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: If we now have a "living rulebook" and warscrolls is there any chance of GW adding points/ a balance element if there is a big enough outcry about it?
It's certainly possible but I'm not holding out much hope they'll bother balancing the old range in its entirety, more likely they'll do rules for the new factions - order, chaos, death, destruction, nature, whatever - that have some internal balancing structure themselves. Either that, or it'll all be done via campaign books with prescribed lists of units for each side.
TBD wrote: It might just be very possible that people did not invest in the game because GW did not provide us with a good enough rule set.
This has been clearly voiced by a great many folks for a great many years, but certain people in Nottingham never appeared to be interested in listening.
A good game sells itself.
I agree with you that a good game sells itself, though there could be other reasons for decline too, like model count requirement being daunting. However, you can't have it both ways:
Either the old version was good and people are sad to see it go, or the old version was bad, so people weren't buying it. The argument is... it was good enough to play, but not good enough to buy more of, or attract new players? Or something like that. Either way, even with a perfect ruleset, I think 40k and WHFB competed with each other for the same players; now, Sigmar and 40k appeal to different potential players.
The other thing is that what people look for changes over time, so a good game that attracts a lot of people in 1990 might still be a good game in 2015, but attract a lot less people.
Incidentally, I like high model count games, but I don't like the ranked-up movement tray part, because it feels like I'm making a zillion of the same model. One of the reasons I like Space Marines and Eldar (and various Eldar-related factions) is that, following the fluff, *every* model is a hero, so it stands to reason that each one would be unique-ish. So you have an army of heroes (or villains), which appeals to me in some strange way
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: If we now have a "living rulebook" and warscrolls is there any chance of GW adding points/ a balance element if there is a big enough outcry about it?
No, because there is nobody to hear that outcry.
That was my first thought. I guess that red shirts could pass it "upwards" but those ivory towers are difficult to scale.
GW has proven itself a very stubborn company that does and sells what it wants, so I think such outcry is futile
That's just it, though... If those rules are going to be ignored in the majority of games, then there's really no point in them being there in the first place.
Unless, of course, you're only expecting your customers to play the game a couple of times before moving on to something else...
I am buying the box and painting the minis, expecting to move on to something else after playing it a couple of times
Either the old version was good and people are sad to see it go, or the old version was bad, so people weren't buying it.
...Or the old version was once good, had become bad, and people would have much rather seen it made good again instead of being scrapped and replaced with something worse ..
I am buying the box and painting the minis, expecting to move on to something else after playing it a couple of times
And if that works for you , that's great . For me , by the time I've bought the game and assembled minis for it, I expect to get a decent amount of play out of it . . And that means more than a couple of games.
Personally I do not like the KOW ruleset and find it is basically old fantasy lite edition, to the point where you may as well move rectangles of cardboard around , it has the most droll background for some time and is made by a company whose sole business plan seems to consist of trolling the competition and running endless Kickstarters to a diminishing amount of backers.
I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off.
That's just it, though... If those rules are going to be ignored in the majority of games, then there's really no point in them being there in the first place.
Unless, of course, you're only expecting your customers to play the game a couple of times before moving on to something else...
I see what you're trying to do there but the comedy rules are in the legacy warscrolls, the new units don't have them. Yes, the expectation is that the legacy stuff will be superceded by new rules that better represent the factions of the new fluff in time, or else gradually phased out, so yes - it's not an issue that people will stop doing the silly voices etc before long.
So they just released these new rules not even one day ago and already the faith of many a WHF player's enjoyment of the game rests on the expectation that another set of replacement rules may or may not be provided to us at some point in the future...
No, you misunderstand, I think this is it for rules for the existing line but doubtless more stuff will be added to the game in the future and the old stuff will be phased out. How you got "you're expecting another set of replacement rules" from that I have no idea.
The part I bolded, you wrote that right?
You quite clearly say:
the expectation is that the legacy stuff will be superceded by new rules... or else gradually phased out
The legacy stuff (which we just got new rules for) will be superceded... superceding something = replacing it... aka the rules we just got for the legacy stuff will be replaced by new rules = another set of replacement rules.
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
7th ed 40k is a improvement on 6th, and I'm having massive amounts of fun both in casual and tournament games (as is my gaming group). I played in a tournament recently with the new Eldar book and had the most fun I've ever had with the game, and my opponents loved it as well. So I'd say 40k is in excellent shape right now.
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
A good game sells models, but it isn't the only way to sell models. GW still sells 40k models because they're nice models with good fluff behind them, but they'd probably sell a lot more 40k models if the rules weren't so terrible. And expect the same to be true with AoS, but to an even greater extreme: they will sell some models because people want the models for non-AoS purposes, but they will probably sell hardly any models because of the game.
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
7th ed 40k is a improvement on 6th, and I'm having massive amounts of fun both in casual and tournament games (as is my gaming group). I played in a tournament recently with the new Eldar book and had the most fun I've ever had with the game, and my opponents loved it as well. So I'd say 40k is in excellent shape right now.
Pretty anecdotal though, when their sales are falling quite a lot.
The guy who thinks he's in one of the Lantern Corps looks interesting but I'm not going to buy it simply because I don't want to support the game. The rules on some of those Warscrolls are stupid. Apart from the archers he's the only non Hammer guy I've seen.
The Griffin chick / cub looks really cool but I have made my choice in this.
Ill throw my opinion on tanking sales I had RT, then 3rd, I ignored 4-5th and I was lead to believe 6th was basically second ed 2.0 it wasn't. I'm Second ed 40k now only and its hard but with some tweaks I've even played tau with it. The rules I use are out there.
Now out of 20 people who were in the same club who played Warhammer and 40k, 3 play 40k still only 2 play the current edition ( I'm not talking about my second ed games I'm talking about people who started around the same time I did) and only I played fantasy
Most stopped playing mini games altogether most say it was due to price but some due to the constant
Tweaking of minis for each edition.
40k will probably be Sigmarized next edition as they tend to use Fantasy as a testing ground for this sort of thing.
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
7th ed 40k is a improvement on 6th, and I'm having massive amounts of fun both in casual and tournament games (as is my gaming group). I played in a tournament recently with the new Eldar book and had the most fun I've ever had with the game, and my opponents loved it as well. So I'd say 40k is in excellent shape right now.
Pretty anecdotal though, when their sales are falling quite a lot.
Yeah, to counter that with something equally anecdotal my club's attendance has fallen and 40K play is grinding to a halt.
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
7th ed 40k is a improvement on 6th, and I'm having massive amounts of fun both in casual and tournament games (as is my gaming group). I played in a tournament recently with the new Eldar book and had the most fun I've ever had with the game, and my opponents loved it as well. So I'd say 40k is in excellent shape right now.
Pretty anecdotal though, when their sales are falling quite a lot.
Inferring a trend from anecdotal evidence is little more than confirmation bias.
migooo wrote: The guy who thinks he's in one of the Lantern Corps looks interesting but I'm not going to buy it simply because I don't want to support the game. The rules on some of those Warscrolls are stupid. Apart from the archers he's the only non Hammer guy I've seen.
The Griffin chick / cub looks really cool but I have made my choice in this.
The ones with swords and halberds look quite interesting from what you can see of them
angelofvengeance wrote: Any more leaks or are we still continuing the doom and gloom here? lol
Atia has some pics of stormhost eternal archers and what looks like stormhost troops wielding halberds and swords instead of hammers. There is also a pic she has of Khorne cavalry. No idea if this is stuff coming from next week or not, i would assume next week would be individual releases to compliment the AoS box set.
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
7th ed 40k is a improvement on 6th, and I'm having massive amounts of fun both in casual and tournament games (as is my gaming group). I played in a tournament recently with the new Eldar book and had the most fun I've ever had with the game, and my opponents loved it as well. So I'd say 40k is in excellent shape right now.
Pretty anecdotal though, when their sales are falling quite a lot.
The post I quoted wasn't talking about sales falling, it was talking about how bad the rules are, which I don't agree with and I explained why. I wasn't referring to GWs financial situation but my own opinion on the state of the game.
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
7th ed 40k is a improvement on 6th, and I'm having massive amounts of fun both in casual and tournament games (as is my gaming group). I played in a tournament recently with the new Eldar book and had the most fun I've ever had with the game, and my opponents loved it as well. So I'd say 40k is in excellent shape right now.
Pretty anecdotal though, when their sales are falling quite a lot.
The post I quoted wasn't talking about sales falling, it was talking about how bad the rules are, which I don't agree with and I explained why. I wasn't referring to GWs financial situation but my own opinion on the state of the game.
Anyway, very sorry for the OT, back to AoS!
He's saying that your enjoyment of the game is a shrinking situation, judging by the shrinking sales of GW games. You may enjoy it, but more and more people are not. (Evidenced by financial statements and not anecdotal experience.)
And again more unit fillers means less miniatures sold and less moey in the Mantic coffers.
OOoooooooo!!!
I was already planning to get Mantic Gargoyles to use as Slaaneshi Furies, as Dark Elf Harpies are way too expensive, and I'd be much happier with those Succubi as Daemonettes than the current palstic models!
I was thinking of getting Beastmen if Warhammer 9th had been enticing. If Mantic start making something that works as that sort of unit, they'll have found a solid new customer in me.
migooo wrote: The guy who thinks he's in one of the Lantern Corps looks interesting but I'm not going to buy it simply because I don't want to support the game. The rules on some of those Warscrolls are stupid. Apart from the archers he's the only non Hammer guy I've seen.
The Griffin chick / cub looks really cool but I have made my choice in this.
The ones with swords and halberds look quite interesting from what you can see of them
I only saw the aforementioned ones ill look again.
And again more unit fillers means less miniatures sold and less moey in the Mantic coffers.
OOoooooooo!!!
I was already planning to get Mantic Gargoyles to use as Slaaneshi Furies, as Dark Elf Harpies are way too expensive, and I'd be much happier with those Succubi as Daemonettes than the current palstic models!
I was thinking of getting Beastmen if Warhammer 9th had been enticing. If Mantic start making something that works as that sort of unit, they'll have found a solid new customer in me.
I can't get over how odd mantic stuff looks I've had loads of promo stuff over the years and I've just given it away
@TBD - No, not at all. Sigmarites are very space marine inspired: superhumans that are bigger, stronger, and more heroic than regular humans. They all sport superdefined six-packs and ginormous shoulders. Superman would be jealous.
When I say different potential player appeal, I mean: 40k targets people who want to build giant scifi armies with vehicles, infantry, lots of models, all that. Sigmar is going to appeal to people who want to play with fewer models and on a smaller table. I think, anyhow.
Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Those WHW terrain pics on Atia's twitter look amazing...but I struggle to get excited about GW's terrain these days until we've seen the actual boxes, because the stuff stores and WHW build is often essentially impossible for ordinary punters to replicate, given they use dozens or hundreds of repeats of a component that you only get once or twice in a £30+ kit.
The aesthetic is an issue as well of course, doesn't fit with Old World Warhammer fluff at all normally, but if it turns out the WHW pics are somewhat representative of what you can achieve with new sets, they should make for a decent ruined Temple of Sigmar for Mordheim gaming. Might work as Elven ruins if you scrape away all the Sigmarine carvings.
One thing I do dislike about AoS is the way everything is measured from the model itself, rather than the base. Quite apart from the obvious potential damage caused by careless opponents standing their stuff on your bases, it could encourage MFA. Are models supposed to be permanently frozen in the pose we modelled them in? Should a knight with sword outstretched really have an easier time hitting than a model from exactly the same unit, except with his sword in his belt? Will every pikeman with his weapon raised always have an easier time hitting flying enemies than those right in front of him? Using bases, and having standard base sizes, seems to me to be a much more sensible way of representing a model's "personal space."
It's easy to house rule this away by going back to measuring from bases. But you can't guarantee that someone will be willing to do this in a pick-up game.
And again more unit fillers means less miniatures sold and less moey in the Mantic coffers.
OOoooooooo!!!
I was already planning to get Mantic Gargoyles to use as Slaaneshi Furies, as Dark Elf Harpies are way too expensive, and I'd be much happier with those Succubi as Daemonettes than the current palstic models!
I was thinking of getting Beastmen if Warhammer 9th had been enticing. If Mantic start making something that works as that sort of unit, they'll have found a solid new customer in me.
I think that some of the Mantic stuff works for the regimental models as they are designed to have a nice unit profile on the board and rank up well. Overall a lot of the models are individually lacking compared to general GW unit sculpts. Those Succubi work well as they rank up nicely and I'd also get them but the other gargoyle guys (with the flames in the hands) are not good models unfortunately.
As has been said earlier the Mantic Undead stuff is quite nice but a lot of the other stuff is well below GW's aesthetic. If there is a large number of players ignoring AoS to play KoW it is still highly likely that they will stick to GW fantasy models through the current range and second hand market
Motograter wrote: I hear a lot of folk saying a good game sells models. 40K sells and the rules for 40k are awful, worst they have been for years. Does this help AoS likely not but many people will try the game before giving it up completely. I only did sci fi but even I grabbed a copy of this though I got mine for £52 which made it a decent buy for the models alone
7th ed 40k is a improvement on 6th, and I'm having massive amounts of fun both in casual and tournament games (as is my gaming group). I played in a tournament recently with the new Eldar book and had the most fun I've ever had with the game, and my opponents loved it as well. So I'd say 40k is in excellent shape right now.
Pretty anecdotal though, when their sales are falling quite a lot.
And it also doesn't jive with the dakka population as a whole either.
Heres is the thing tho mate, the rules are free you have the models. If you give the game a go even on your spare time you are really risking or losing nothing and giving them not a single dollar more. You see if things work FOR FREE !!!!! :d which is what won me over... and the fact the starter has khorne in it lol
KoW is free as well, but unlike this its actually balanced, tactical (positioning, flanks and rear attacks matter), streamlined and the rules are playable! (no endless debates about rules interpretations or whats balanced)
KoW is as balanced as any previous edition of WFB until you get to army lists, which is where game balance crumbles in many games including 40k, WFB and KoW.
When KoW's current edition started out, you could play using and against most armies without serious issue.
Still, there were crazy small unit spam issues with elves and later when they made a good army of humans with angel support, it was very possible to come up with overpowered stuff if you wanted to do that.
It's the special rules and tweaking up stats/lowering unit prices that screws up rules balance.
Fezman wrote: One thing I do dislike about AoS is the way everything is measured from the model itself, rather than the base.
Yes, this is the worst flaw with the core rules.
Seems added just before release (so not to anger the "I will not rebase"-crowd) - as even a single playtest would have shown:
- models having to move/charge sideways or backwards in order to maximize distance (no facing and turning reduces movement)
- miniatures piling up on eachothers bases in order to reach within melee weapon range.
- models on flying stands becoming impossible to hit in melee.
- models on large bases forcing opponents to place their minis on top of that base in order to reach the mini.
- models being equipped with very long pikes in order to maximize how many that can attack a character.
- ...
Having mixed (square/round of different sizes) bases and measure from them would on the other hand just create minimal problems.
I actually expect this to change with the first FAQ.
kendoka wrote: I like the simplicity of "the Avian Way" of specifying maximum Unit Size*,
(ToHit x ToWound)/Wounds=Unit Size
i.e.
DE Bleakswords would be (3x4)/1 = max 12 models/warscroll.
DE Darkshards would be (5x4)/1 = max 20 models/warscroll.
DE Dark Riders would be (5x4)/2 = max 10 models/warscroll.
Would make an excellent starting point.
However, as Save is as important as Wounds in order to survive, Save should be part of the equation.
And special rules aswell (rend, mortal wounds, darkshields, etc.), 9 Executioners are way better than 12 Bleakswords.
*Unit size is also more suited to AoS and the Warscrolls than a points value/model.
This is nifty thinking.
Agreed, very clever.
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Relapse wrote: Now that we have the rules and images, is anything left for rumors?
Later releases. We already know there are more sigmarites; there's rumors of other stuff as well.
Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Spoiler:
Nice job, Talys! Very nicely done!
That was fast and youve done a really nice job. I'm hoping there'll be some alternate colour schemes in the book I can go for... maybe something in red...
Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Spoiler:
Nice job, Talys! Very nicely done!
That was fast and youve done a really nice job. I'm hoping there'll be some alternate colour schemes in the book I can go for... maybe something in red...
You should see the Store versions here just spray gold and blue dabs they aren't even trying.
You know it's much nicer than the ones on the website. Start a plog it be cool.
Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Spoiler:
Nice job, Talys! Very nicely done!
That was fast and youve done a really nice job. I'm hoping there'll be some alternate colour schemes in the book I can go for... maybe something in red...
There is 6 different examples in the book (not all of them using gold which is good) but they basically say that there is so many different types of storm hosts that only sigmar knows their true numbers. aka paint it how you want and it will still fit fluff wise.
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off.
That's just it, though... If those rules are going to be ignored in the majority of games, then there's really no point in them being there in the first place.
Unless, of course, you're only expecting your customers to play the game a couple of times before moving on to something else...
I see what you're trying to do there but the comedy rules are in the legacy warscrolls, the new units don't have them. Yes, the expectation is that the legacy stuff will be superceded by new rules that better represent the factions of the new fluff in time, or else gradually phased out, so yes - it's not an issue that people will stop doing the silly voices etc before long.
So they just released these new rules not even one day ago and already the faith of many a WHF player's enjoyment of the game rests on the expectation that another set of replacement rules may or may not be provided to us at some point in the future...
No, you misunderstand, I think this is it for rules for the existing line but doubtless more stuff will be added to the game in the future and the old stuff will be phased out. How you got "you're expecting another set of replacement rules" from that I have no idea.
The part I bolded, you wrote that right?
You quite clearly say:
the expectation is that the legacy stuff will be superceded by new rules... or else gradually phased out
The legacy stuff (which we just got new rules for) will be superceded... superceding something = replacing it... aka the rules we just got for the legacy stuff will be replaced by new rules = another set of replacement rules.
So what exactly am I misunderstanding?
Missed this earlier. Well, TBD, by saying "Another replacement ruleset", you made it sound as though I was saying I expected another, better iteration of the warscroll compendiums - which isn't what I was suggesting, but rather that in time new rules will be released for Age of Sigmar that will most likely incorporate some of the existing range. Your choice of ellipsis in that quote removes the part that makes it make sense, where I state the new rules will be for representing the new order, chaos, etc factions in AoS.
A new book - call it Age of Sigmar book 1, or something - that includes, hypothetically, Chaos and Order, and within that rules for Chaos Warriors and say, State Troops for example, no, I wouldn't classify that as "another replacement set of rules [even though they] just released these rules not one day ago".
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Incidentally, I painted my first Sigmarite just now!
Spoiler:
Nice job, Talys! Very nicely done!
That was fast and youve done a really nice job. I'm hoping there'll be some alternate colour schemes in the book I can go for... maybe something in red...
There is 6 different examples in the book (not all of them using gold which is good) but they basically say that there is so many different types of storm hosts that only sigmar knows their true numbers. aka paint it how you want and it will still fit fluff wise.
migooo wrote: You should see the Store versions here just spray gold and blue dabs they aren't even trying.
You know it's much nicer than the ones on the website. Start a plog it be cool.
There's no excuse for that. To me, the biggest draw is the physical models! These guys are very easy to paint in the default scheme, because gold drybrushes nicely, and blue is just an easy color to paint.
Azreal13 wrote: Are those hosts all of 1000 warriors, each subdivided into hostesses of 100 and valets of 10?
No silly, that would make them almost as Space Marines.
Sigmarine chapters consists of 10.000 warriors (according to the "Gates of Azyr" book preview),
Totally different, just as the sculpt.
privateer4hire wrote: You can ignore the silly/stupid rules options because they're not mandatory, at all.
Says who? You?
Where does it say they are non-mandatory? What part of the rules did I miss where it says "Yeah, but no!" regarding the dancing/screaming/insulting your opponent rules?
So far every time someone has come into this thread and gone "It's not that bad guys!" it is always followed with a "You can just XYZ the rules". Do you realise just how stupid that sounds? If everyone's solution to making the rules of this game work is to not use the rules as they are written then it's a problem with the game, not the people reacting to it. How can anyone not get that?
The same way a gak mini launches and people say "actually, if I buy a load of other bits to make it look completely different, it'll be ok! I'll just get 2!"
Fezman wrote: One thing I do dislike about AoS is the way everything is measured from the model itself, rather than the base. Quite apart from the obvious potential damage caused by careless opponents standing their stuff on your bases, it could encourage MFA. Are models supposed to be permanently frozen in the pose we modelled them in? Should a knight with sword outstretched really have an easier time hitting than a model from exactly the same unit, except with his sword in his belt? Will every pikeman with his weapon raised always have an easier time hitting flying enemies than those right in front of him? Using bases, and having standard base sizes, seems to me to be a much more sensible way of representing a model's "personal space."
It's easy to house rule this away by going back to measuring from bases. But you can't guarantee that someone will be willing to do this in a pick-up game.
At my stores and events I just said we'd measure from the base. Doing it from the model was slowing the game, and causing a ton of problems and bringing up really odd questions. There is a reason we measure from the base. This was a really odd thing to change.
So far every time someone has come into this thread and gone "It's not that bad guys!" it is always followed with a "You can just XYZ the rules". Do you realise just how stupid that sounds? If everyone's solution to making the rules of this game work is to not use the rules as they are written then it's a problem with the game, not the people reacting to it. How can anyone not get that?
You never, ever, use any house-rules at all? You follow every single step in the book without modification, however small? GW games are perfectly written for you and your gang?
Mort wrote: You never, ever, use any house-rules at all? You follow every single step in the book without modification, however small? GW games are perfectly written for you and your gang?
----------------------------------------------------------------> X
Here is you. That X is the point sailing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over your head.
If you wanted it to be base-agnostic, you could measure from the center of the base -- that would eliminate things like facing and square/round differences.
I was just told the Mantic website was crashing a lot because of all the traffic happening on it. I know I was having trouble getting in to see stuff.
Any comfirmations?
you off, because customer service and building a community is SOOOOO overated.
