From an anonymous email to Darnok over at Warseer:
Every 3-4 months, as an independent retailer, we get a list of items that must be stocked. These are changed in advanced so we don't order old stock, and to give us a change to sell off old stock before new items turn up. The last one in about October / November added a few basic Marine items but dropped Tau Battlesuits, which would tie in with concepts of new battlesuits and new Tau for Spring / Easter.
Huru MorDae on ATT wrote:Today a friend of mine working in management for a hobby store received a call from his supplier asking for all tau hammerheads, broadsides, and codex to be pulled from the shelves and returned to gw.
Elaith over at Warseer wrote:Could well be nothing but in reading through at least a couple of articles in this months White Dwarf, there are references to Staffers working on Tau forces.
Jeremy's article starts with him working on a FW Battlesuit and later someone is mentioned to be working on a Tau force.
Likely nothing, but are staffers getting their Tau forces moving prior to release... only time will tell.
And, with the usual amount of salt:
an Anonmyous Source from the Faeit 212 inbox wrote:None of the Forgeworld suits will be in the new Tau codex.
There are two new suits, however and the crisis and broadsides are both being redone and are very distinct from one another.
The hazard suits will remain as a Forgeworld supplement and are even referenced in the fluff in a few places. They're just non-standard issue and still considered in prototype for various reasons.
The Kroot hq replaces the 1+ requirement on fire warriors with a Kroot unit.
And the book is finished. Has been for a while.
via groffus in the comment section of Faeit 212 March 7, 2013 at 6:35 AM The owner of my local store told me yesterday that he was unable to get a copy of the current Tau codex to put on display. When he pushed he was told that he could not get one because there was none any more, he should wait until next month to order one that there should be plenty then.
I play Tau myself and I am beginning to start to believe :-)
Compilation of Tau Hints
The following are compiled via Tastyfish onWarseer
Eliath pm'd me with some info from WD that supports the idea that Tau are pretty imminant and also that it seems the FW suits are still compatible with the new kits
via Elaith
Could well be nothing but in reading through at least a couple of articles in this months White Dwarf, there are references to Staffers working on Tau forces.
Jeremy's article starts with him working on a FW Battlesuit and later someone is mentioned to be working on a Tau force.
Likely nothing, but are staffers getting their Tau forces moving prior to release... only time will tell.
via Huru MorDae
Today a friend of mine working in management for a hobby store received a call from his supplier asking for all tau hammerheads, broadsides, and codex to be pulled from the shelves and returned to gw.
Today's Developments
Note: I am a little confused on the dates between an April and June release on this bit (and I am not in email communication with Shaso to clarify). perhaps a 2nd wave in June.
via shaso_iceborn in the comment sections here on Faeit 212
March 7, 2013 at 10:51 AM Tau will be released in June, along with a new Farsight model. New Kroot HQ, and the options Nafka mentioned above. His source on this one is very good.
March 7, 2013 at 10:57 AM Are you guys ready for April and the lightened wallet the new Tau codex brings? 2 New Fliers, 2 new Suit options, a Uber-suit, New kroot HQ option, lots of new kits and better rules and options. Us Tau are about to finally get RETRIBUTION!!!! Sorry imperial players but I will be "lighting" you up here very soon.
Rumor from 10.3.2013:
Please note that the following is simply my own thoughts to a release schedule. No rumors on this one, and the intent is to discuss it the possibilities of what is on the horizon with the community.
Hastings Release Order
Tau
High Elves
Eldar
Lizard Men
Tau (April Release, or April pre-orders)
Tau are very much next. There are just too many different sources all saying the same thing, not to mention that Hastings word is canon, and he claimed they were next for us now back in August of last year.
So when? It looks like April is the month. I am not going to guess on whether that is only a few weeks away (although it sure feels like it) for an April 6th release date, or if April is going to be for pre-orders.
I hope Tau fans are pleased to hear this
Updates:
11.3.2013
It seems it's like I said, we will see Tau next month in WD. Here is the comment that comes wit hthe picture:
"I had not heard much about Tau in the next White Dwarf yet, and yet here is mention of it from Games Workshop on Facebook. Once again, its not much, but is at least interesting. Perhaps they know more than they are letting out."
Source
superawesomeraptorman over at Warseer General Discussion wrote:Heard a couple of things through the grapevine. They COULD be complete tosh, they could be awesome insights. I'd say the usual dosage of salt.
HQ
- New firewarrior leader - can give certain squads special abilities
- Ethereal have auras - apparently they are ok, nothing to write home about
- no honor guard
- New tank commander special character - has preferred enemy imperial guard (?), use on a hammerhead apparently (best tank to use)
- no HQ alters FOC apparently
Elites
- Crisis suits no new sprue, getting repackaged into 3. This seems to contradict people hearing about a new recut - apparently commanders sprue (special issue weapons) will sneak in here?
- no stealth on stealth suits, will have something to make them harder to shoot still (maybe?)
Troops
- fire warriors 9 points - no idea about new upgrades etc
- kroot lose one point of strength (really that sounds lame)
Fast
- Pathfinders don't take devilfish anymore
- piranhas are cheaper, but not much different
- flyers go here - apparently one is anti air. Not really much news, but apparently dual kit but neither version amazing (more like a dark angels rather than necron flyer kit)
Heavy Support
- Submuntions purchased for hammerheads
- Broadside have strength 8 rail guns -_- BUT can buy skyfire (expensive) but cannot buy A.S.S
- Giant new walker here - pretty tough to kill, apparently his weapons are interesting. I wanted more details, couldn't get them
New abilities
- Single squad gets charged - every unit within 6" can overwatch into the charging squad
- Squad ability from commander (can't remember which one). If unit does not move AT ALL (no relentless, S&P tricks) every model gets extra shot. I got the impression that you can't use jet pack move with this either
- Two marker light hits = NO cover at all (not a marker light hit per -1 cover). Usual BS upgrade
- Seeker missiles can skyfire
- Multi-trackers come standard on crisis suits (or free? dunno which)
General Stuff
- Haven't heard anything about new kroot or vespid stuff
- Haven't heard anything about ANY new race, but wasn't exactly told no new race as opposed to nothing was mentioned
Honestly all I can remember, it might fly in the face of everything we know, and a plastic kit seems to be missing (fire warrior HQ, Flyer, Big Suit plus something?)
Again might be true might not, ce le vi.
Neko over at Warseer General Discussion wrote:Right, just gotten off of the comlink to my contact in the icy north. Let's see now...
The codex is by Vetock.
The Ubersuit will not be competing for your Heavy slots.
Ion weapons will be overloadable.
Units will be able to overwatch to defend nearby comrades.
A new item of support gear will grant skyfire.
The new models are absolutely fabulous, much to the dismay of my future bank balance.
Could you at least say whether they've changed the look of the Crisis suits?
There is a new XV8 varient, but mostly they're the same.
The Dude over at Warseer general Discussion wrote:I've heard no big Kroot beast, which makes sense if the Ubersuit is a Monstrous Creature.
via an anonymous source from the Faeit 212 inbox
Crisis Suits
The new suits are very similar to those old ones.
The heads don't have a neck and are now lowered into the torso about 25% of the head is below shoulder level.
The arms are a bit shorter too.
Otherwise that's a decent representation of the crisis suits.
Kroothawk wrote: I've not been told anything about our alien allies.
I have just been told that the new interesting tidbits with regards to the Broadsides however:
- The railguns are now different from the vehicle mounted version. Think of these as light railguns.
- The Broadsides now have sniper style pose.
- Broadsides are to cost the same amount as their Forgeworld counterparts
(...)
They currently have less ammo choice (as in they don't have an ammo choice). The new Broadside weapon is a different weapon.
Anonymous source over at Faeit212 wrote:Crisis Suits
The new suits are very similar to those old ones.
The heads don't have a neck and are now lowered into the torso about 25% of the head is below shoulder level.
The arms are a bit shorter too.
Otherwise that's a decent representation of the crisis suits.
13.3.2013
Kroothawk wrote: I've heard Riptide for the Ubersuit, but give that some salt
Any word on the Kroot HQ/other kroot choices on the FOC?
I've heard no to both. To be clear:
No new Kroot units/creatures.
No Kroot HQ unit.
Tau are getting close, and I had another confirmation last night that they are indeed coming in April. If this doesn't start to get everyone excited for Tau, I don't know what will.
So Kroothawk may be right after all, good show if this turns out to be true
Now for the main rumor:
via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)
Broadsides - 85 pts with S8 Ap1 Skyfire; not sure if this is in place of old S10 AP1 or if the 85 points + skyfire is an option but its there
Hammerheads - regardless of what Railguns are now in general, keeps S10 AP1
SMS - twin-linked, ignores cover
Crisis Suits - not likely to move to Troops as an option
Disruption Pods - only +1 cover
via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)
option to have all units with 6" fire overwatch - lots of dice rolling, little effect FTW Fliers are AV10/11 with 6x S6/7 shots at BS3; not twin-linked
there is a tank commander
Tau vehicles can no longer fire as fast vehicles (i.e. multi-tracker upgrade gone/changed)
Riptide - name of ubersuit and is an Elite choice.
Natfka again wrote:via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)
Broadsides - 85 pts with S8 Ap1 Skyfire; not sure if this is in place of old S10 AP1 or if the 85 points + skyfire is an option but its there.
Here is a response from a very reliable rumor checker that sometimes comes in to help us take a closer look at rumors.
via an anonymous source
They're not 85 points base, that's including their Skyfire upgrade.
They are indeed STR 8 AP 1 however on the broadside suits, then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor.
this is from the comment section of the post from earlier today.
via shaso_icebornMarch 13, 2013 at 2:10 PM or Rail Rifle S6 Ap3, Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor) and Rail Cannon S10 Ap1.
tetrisphreak wrote: This was just taken from the comments section of faeit 212's blog:
Gino GoetzMarch 14, 2013 at 8:58 AM Krisis ( including XV 88 )
Can fire 2 Weapons on moving ( without extra cost )
Optional Skyfire 25p ( choise at the start of the round )
And Kollos with S8 AP1 will cost 60p
If near a Special HQ, if not moving get +1 Shot.
( for a Str 10 Weapon it would be to much, for the S8 it´s strong but not overpowerd )
via an anonymous source
*Broadsides are Slow and Purposeful, 2+ and T4 now.
*They are twin linked str8 ap1 railguns and can take plasma or missiles as well.
*They have a suit upgrade that let's them at the start of a shooting phase have skyfire.
*They don't have interceptor, nor do they snap fire ground targets.
*The only thing I notice is that the unit chooses to skyfire or not. So if you use split fire, you can't mix firing at ground targets and flyers easily.
*They're really, really good.
*Semi mobile and very durable. They're the only non interceptor skyfire unit in the game that can survive flyer alpha strike.
*The tears and overreactions over out of context snippets is mind-blowing.
shaso_iceborn wrote:There was much talk of refining the Tau codex weapons list. This is simply one of the ways we have heard about. I almost didn't post here at all but when I came on I had lots of PMs with support, with that said I will post this much for those who support messengers.
The mini ally dex has to my understanding been incorporated into the codex at the beginning of the book and will no longer be a separate compendium.
There is a Kroot HQ, but not in the conventional sense and he cannot command "Tau" forces (unless they bring back Prok but I have heard nothing on him)
Farsight will have a new model, it looks similar to the gamesday one.
Rail Rifles, Rail Guns, and Rail Cannons are the way they are distinguishing different rail type weapons in the new codex.
There will be 2 "new" special characters, one we may have seen before. (Aun'shi I think but do not have confirmation)
All I am giving for now will update later.
And to the those who said ignore the haters, thanks for the support and well wishes.
To the haterz, I only post what I am told, I honestly wish I was making it up sometimes as it would be easier than defending myself from certain people. Information comes, I pass along, nothing more, if I was making it up I would do something less dramatic.
Neko wrote:No new crisis suits, just a repackaging. I do believe the pathfinders are plastic though, and with a Big Drone too.
The new rules regarding overwatch look to be good for both gunline and mobile Tau. The key in either case is to make sure that your units are supporting each other, which has been a ke theme for Tau from the start anyway.
BTW, the 2 flyers are a bomber and a gunship - no transport. Incidently, they look a little like upscaled TX-42s
(...)
I suspect the Broadside change is also to bring the rules more in line with the model. The Broadside railguns have always looked to be about midway between a railrifle and a Hammerhead's railgun.
Edit: Also, for the conspiracy theorists, why would GW nerf the Broadside in favour of selling new models when the Broadside is a new model?
So are folks thinking they wont redo the krootox or kroot hounds? I had also heard a rumor of kroot hawks? Neko can you add anything regarding kroot?
Only that there's none in the new battleforce box.
The Dude wrote:Ethereals buff units that they join with a selection of effects. One such effect gives an extra shot. This combined with a piece of wargear that adds 6" max range to the squad means that it's possible to rapid fire 3 shots at 18".
Apparently this can potentially be 4 if the Fire Warrior special character is also attached.
Riptide is rumoured to be around 165 base but only start with twin-linked Plasma.
The Ion Accelerator is apparently an upgrade: three S7 AP3 shots or one S8 AP2 Large Blast.
There's supposedly a special rule on the Riptide called Nova Accelerator which can do 4 things:
Buff weaponry (unsure how or which weapons)
Double the shots of support weapons (missile pods ect)
Increase invulnerable save to 3++
Boost a stat (unknown which or by how much)
Neko wrote:Seeker missiles can now be carried on suits
The Dude wrote:More info is coming to light regarding the Tau release. What I've personally heard is:
Aun'shi is rumoured to be returning.
Two new characters are said to be included.
One character is a tank commander (presumably a vehicle upgrade) like Pask from the IG Codex. He is supposedly in a Hammerhead and allows it to overwatch.
The other Character allows Fire Warriors to consolidate after Overwatch.
So it seems Overwatch is going to be the Tau's special trick, at least from a Fire Warrior perspective.
The large suit thats been rumoured for a while is supposedly called the Riptide. It is a Jump Monstrous Creature armed with Ion Cannon and standard Battlesuit support weapons.
The Ion Cannon can reportedly use two fire modes, Heavy 3 (possibly 4) and single shot Large Blast.
I have heard of the following releases:
Riptide large suit
Flyer dual kit (fighter and bomber)
New Battlesuit and Broadside models (not sure if these dual kit or not)
Plastic Pathfinders
A new Fire Warrior HQ (not sure if the special character mentioned above or a generic one)
Neko over at Warseer wrote:Has anyone mentioned yet that Pathfinders get new experimental toys to play with? I think they're ion based too, so they may even be truely mind-blowing like the rail rifles before them
via shaso_iceborn over on Warseer The mini ally dex has to my understanding been incorporated into the codex at the beginning of the book and will no longer be a separate compendium.
There is a Kroot HQ, but not in the conventional sense and he cannot command "Tau" forces (unless they bring back Prok but I have heard nothing on him)
Farsight will have a new model, it looks similar to the gamesday one.
Rail Rifles, Rail Guns, and Rail Cannons are the way they are distinguishing different rail type weapons in the new codex.
There will be 2 "new" special characters, one we may have seen before. (Aun'shi I think but do not have confirmation)
Neko over at Waseer wrote:I'm glad someone's posted those - I feel I can speak a little more freely now
Looking at the double spread:
- The flyer on the left is a gunship. The chin-mounted burst cannon you can see, but the main weapon is actually mounted on the underside of the tail, and is some sort of turreted array of ion weapons. My first thought is that this should make the flyer easier to use, as you don't need to be pointing at the target. It also has 2 pop-up seeker missiles.
- The flyer on the right is the bomber. It doesn't actually carry any bombs, but instead has a generator for forming bombs out of plasma as they're needed. It also has a detachable drone fighter in each wing for defense.
- Below the bomber, you should be able to make out a lot of white missile tips. These all belong to a Broadside model. The uppermost bundle of missiles is a shoulder-mounted pod, whilst a bit lower you can see 2 more bundles of missiles in arm mounted pods. Also, to the right of the shoulder pod you may be able to make out a seeker missile pointing straight up - this is the suit mounted seeker I mentioned.
- To the right of that you have the XV104 Riptide. You should be able to make out an ion cannon of some sort on its right arm, and a shield on its left.
2nd Attachment:
- Here we can see the box art for the XV104, this time armed with some sort of uber-burst cannon. On this shot you might be able to make out the twin support weapons mounted under the main gun. It also comes with 2 shielded missile drones.
- And another picture of the bomber.
3rd Attachment:
- Pathfinders. You can't really make out the new experimental weapons I'm afraid, but you can certainly see that one of the drones is beefier than the rest. If I understand right, this drone can sit in place of the cupola on the devilfish, and grant some sort of C3 bonuses.
- Broadside suit. In this shot you can see it built with the twin heavy rail rifle (the rifle you can see is actually 2 heavy rail rifles side by side).
- Crisis team. It's just the current suits repacked into boxes of 3.
Another tidbit not shown:
- The XV8 varient is a finecast commander's varient. It looks similar to the XV8 (maybe with longer limbs?), and may well have the same rules, but is posed with the hand units deployed.
Also, isn't the resin commander Neko was talking about is in the page fold of the first pic? This XV8 suit seems weird.
faeit 212 wrote:
via an anonymous source from the Faeit 212 inbox
To answer some questions for your readers:
*The suit starts with rail cannons and can upgrade them to the Ion Weapon.
*The profiles you have listed are wrong, but it does indeed have blast and shot options. (from yesterday)
*It does divert power from it's reactor to different systems at the start of each Tau turn, lasting until the next turn and starts with one system active.
*One includes the gun, which is how you change it from shots to a blast.
*For those of you wondering; yes the blast is better than the multi-shots.
*It isn't like submunitions, or dispersed firing. Think of it more like megaman's buster. It gets powers up and fires a big shot instead of rapidly firing smaller shots (granted it's from a big gun).
an anonymous source from Faeit 212 wrote:To answer some questions for your readers:
*The suit starts with rail cannons and can upgrade them to the Ion Weapon.
*The profiles you have listed are wrong, but it does indeed have blast and shot options. (from yesterday)
*It does divert power from it's reactor to different systems at the start of each Tau turn, lasting until the next turn and starts with one system active.
*One includes the gun, which is how you change it from shots to a blast.
*For those of you wondering; yes the blast is better than the multi-shots.
*It isn't like submunitions, or dispersed firing. Think of it more like megaman's buster. It gets powers up and fires a big shot instead of rapidly firing smaller shots (granted it's from a big gun).
18.3.2013
DaThing21 wrote: Dont know if these have been posted but oh well:
Via Kirby over on 3++ *Skyray can shoot and ground and air targets (one assumes at full BS)
*Special character is "like" Chronus for tanks. Tank Hunters. Potential cover boost. Tank can overwatch.
*Hammerhead roughly 160-170 WITH character.
*Special Pathfinder - Nightstrider.
*Shadowsun has split fire. Maybe.
*Riptide roughly is T6/W4/2 Sv/5 invul with the special option working on a 3 or higher (i.e. 3plusplus , better blast, etc.). Around 175 pts with Ion Cannon (S8 Ap2 blast; super charge takes to S9?).
5 wounds!? And more gun options outside of Ion cannon - supporting missile pods?
*All Ion weapons have a 'supercharge' option but at a risk (gets hot?). Drones can have Ion weapons.
*Interceptor drones are in! heavy drones with actual weapons AFAIK. They are a FW unit iirc which has been moved to 40k. there are 6 drone types (see below).
*Repulsor field. D6 s4 ap- hits to attacking units at I10
*Supporting fire allows other Tau units within 6" to overwatch a charging unit as well. Not sure if this is all Tau units or just specific types.
*Markerlights are for all intents and purposes, the same. Buff BS, remove cover. BS can be buffed for Overwatch but not sure if this counts for Skyfire, too
*There is somethign called.... puretide engram neurochip.
*I haven't heard anything about railcannons for the Riptide. It starts with a Burst cannon (of giantness) though and can buy a Skyfire option.__In the pictures we can see underslung plasma rifles with the burst cannon.__IDK base cost for Hammerhead but that appears to be about right. I'd still imagine one hammerhead + 2 broadside units with the info I have but it might go the other way, too.
*6 different types of drones.
Grav inhibitor
pulse accelerator
recon drone (which can fit in the turret cupola of a devikfish and provide communication relays and fire support)
*Cadre Fireblade -
IC with split fire, markerlight, supporting fire, volley fire (+1 shot for Pulse Rifles/Carbines if unit and IC do not move).
Upgrade for Fire Warrior units - not sure if an actual IC or just has LoS! properties, etc.
*Pathfinders compete with fliers so I'm guessing no option to move them and they stay in Fast Attack.
*Riptide is an Elite choice
*85 pts gets S8 AP1 Skyfire for Broadsides; same statline
railguns are now S8 Ap1 base - rail cannons are S10 AP1.
The way the ruling works is at the beginning of the shooting phase they can choose to have skyfire or not.
No beam railgun shot
*Kroot?
There were some solid thoughts on Kroot before with rules, etc. but since they might not have new models soon, they might not want to showcase them. But yes, quite possibly they have been cut until this silly ally supplement book which would be frustrating but that would be very strange as GW generally never removes units from books.
On Pathfinders: They compete with fliers so I'm guessing no option to move them and they stay in Fast Attack.
On Riptide: Elite.
On Kroot/Vespides: No new info.
There were some solid thoughts on Kroot before with rules, etc. but since they might not have new models soon, they might not want to showcase them. But yes, quite possibly they have been cut until this silly ally supplement book which would be frustrating but that would be very strange as GW generally never removes units from books. Squats being the exception.
On XV88: 85 pts gets S8 AP1 Skyfire for Broadsides; same statline; railguns are now S8 Ap1 base – rail cannons are S10 AP1. They don't lose Overwatch and they can still shoot at the ground at full BS. Not sure if they have S&P.
The way the ruling works is at the beginning of the shooting phase they can choose to have skyfire or not.
Yes the railgun has been nerfed though.
via neko over on Warseer The new cover is of a Crisis suit. The suit is posed with one leg on a boulder, whilst shooting a target to the suit's right with a fusion blaster.
20.3.2013
KaiserEddie wrote: Fresh rumors from Faeit 212 quoting The Dude on Warseer:
via The Dude over on Warseer
*The release will include two Finecast boxes, one for Farsight and one for a generic XV8 Commander.
*Also Two Finecast blisters for Special Characters; Dark Strider and Long Strike.
*Plus there is a plastic blister for the Cadre Fireblade.
*Just to be clear, the existing Kroot Carnivore squad will stay unchanged.
Ravengardt from Faeit 212 inbox wrote:- Aliens are out. No Kroot, no nothing.
- There will be some kind of supplement with alien allies. With Kroot,
Vespids and a race described in "The Greater Good" novel. I don't know
when, I don't know if it's a codex or WD thing or anything.
- Broadside Railguns can choose each round if: Str 8 Ap1/ Str 6 AP3 blast
- Tank/ Riptide Railguns have Str 10 AP1, I don't know about the fire
modes.
- Tank commander gives skyfire to the tanks
No Aliens sounds odd. Riptide Railgun sounds odd as well.
The Dude over at Warseer wrote:Just heard the following:
Activating the Riptide's Nova Engine is risky. It only works on a 3+. If it fails to activate (roll of 1-2) the Riptide suffers a wound.
The weapon buff result for the Nova Engine supposedly buffs the large blast of the Ion Accelerator to S9 AP1, so there's your anti tank gun
Also, apparently Broadsides with missiles get 4 shots each at S7 AP4.
Of course I'm not sure the mechanics of the Nova Engine, but it appears to me to be a simple random table with1-2 being take a wound and 3-4 being one of the four rumoured buffs. If this is the case, you wouldn't be able to rely on it happening.
Also, if the charged profile does have a drawback like Gets Hot, you are twice risking self harm to get that one mega shot off.
love to see the SMS ignoring cover, even if it doesn't get s7 ap4. the nova engine seems to make sense the way the dude described although i can see it on a roll of a 1 to lose a wound and a 2 no effect, then whatever else afterwards. whatever it is, it is though and i won't have any complaints either way because i have a feeling it'll be awesome no matter what.
I was explicitly told rolling a 1-2 will cause a wound.
Neko wrote:I didn't get any impression of the Nova reactor giving random effects (other than the chance to kill yourself of course). As always though, I could be wrong.
via neko over at Warseer I didn't get any impression of the Nova reactor giving random effects (other than the chance to kill yourself of course). As always though, I could be wrong.
via an Anonymous Source from the Faeit 212 inbox (pretty good source)
*Heavy Burst Cannon or Ion Cannon + Shield for Weapon choices (No Rail weapon)
*Nova reactor is a 3+, you pick the effect, it's not random.
*No saves against the wound.
Just heard the following:
Activating the Riptide's Nova Engine is risky. It only works on a 3+. If it fails to activate (roll of 1-2) the Riptide suffers a wound.
The weapon buff result for the Nova Engine supposedly buffs the large blast of the Ion Accelerator to S9 AP1, so there's your anti tank gun
Also, apparently Broadsides with missiles get 4 shots each at S7 AP4.
Of course I'm not sure the mechanics of the Nova Engine, but it appears to me to be a simple random table with1-2 being take a wound and 3-4 being one of the four rumoured buffs. If this is the case, you wouldn't be able to rely on it happening.
Also, if the charged profile does have a drawback like Gets Hot, you are twice risking self harm to get that one mega shot off.
If it works the way I'm thinking the table would look like this:
1-2: take a wound (with or without saves, we don't know)
3: Support weapons may fire twice
4: Invulnerable save becomes 3++
5: Stats Boost (I'm going to guess this will be multiple stats rather than a choice)
6: +1 S & -1 AP to one weapon
via Neko over at Warseer There are pictures of Kroot and Vespid miniatures in the new codex, so I expect their rules will be there too
via MajorWesJanson on Warseer Firewarriors are still 4 to a frame, so they will still probably remain 6-12. Kroot could maybe get a little larger, say 12-24. Pathfinders 4-8 don't work anymore, so we will likely see them go from 4-8 to either 5-10 or 6-12, so you don't have spares in a box. Stealthsuit boxes are 3 per, so if they do increase the size, I'd expect 3-9. Crisis suits are also now 3 per box, but I don't expect their unit size to increase, unless maybe Farsight bumps their max size up.
And just for convenience, here the repost of the pics in the above link, showing the generic commander suit (the last model we haven't seen yet):
Kroothawk wrote: Some info extracted from WD by Siyath over at ATT:
I'm lucky enough to have my copy of the WD (English version) already in my hands. I've read only a couple of the first pages showcasing the release (literally just got home and sat down) and already I can say that, for example, the Razorshark can swap it's burst cannon for a missile pod, houses two seeker missiles in compartments above it's wings - plus that the main armament is indeed a quad ion weapon with 360 arc.
(...)
Well, more as I go: The Riptide. Apparently it's highly posable, "featuring joints at ankles, knees, hips, waist, shoulders and neck". So this is good news at least modeling-wise. Also, Riptide comes with five support systems - I'm not sure if this means the kit contains five of these or does it indeed have five hardpoints reserved for the various support systems. I suspect the former. There's a mention of a "velocity tracker" as a some kind of a new support system.
(...)
Okay, some more:
Missile drones as such apparently only come with the Broadside kit (not the shielded ones that come with Riptide). Not a difficult stretch to covert, though. The heavy rail rifles on Broadsides are twinlinked, and apparently either version, the heavy railrifle as well as the one packed with missiles can take a single seeker missile as an additional weapon.
Not much to say about the new commander with the Enforcer armour, apparently not too much compatible with existing XV8 models, since the pose is rather rigid. And yes, Finecast. The weapons portrayed are indeed the AFP and the CIB. The last picture on the page and especially the caption indicates the Crisis squad size has gone up from the previous 3, since there's 4 in the picture in addition to the commander and it's described as a squad.
Farsight, it's the Dawn Blade that we see there. Not much else to add, except perhaps the mention about there not being any question about where Farsight's loyalties lie since the "symbol of the Fire Caste proudly worn on his chest."
The Pathfinders' ion rifle is a new experimental weapon apprently exclusive to the Pathfinders. Six different drones can be built from the kit. Nothing to add about Darkstrider that we don't already know. Except that it's a "he", not "she" : ).
Squinting at the codex imagery, I can make out that the Cadre Fireblade has the following statistics:
WS4, BS5, S3, T3, W3, I3, A3, Ld9 and a 4+ save. He's Infantry(Character), and carries Combat armour (probably just the regular FW armor since it's listed on the FW entry too), pulse rifle, photon grenades and a markerlight.
He also has following Special Rules: Independent Character, Split Fire and Supporting Fire. Volley Fire: (paraphrased) not moving in the Movement phase, he and every model in his unit fire an additional shot (limited to pulse rifles and carbines).
Firewarrior stats:
WS2, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I2, A1, Ld7, 4+. Shas'uis are the same as these days. They carry combat armour, pulse rifles and photon grenades. Also have the Special Rule: Supporting Fire.
(...)
Alright, some more then. In random order, what I could deduce from the battlereport and decipher from the images.
All ion weapons are apparently overchargeable. This leads us to the two Interceptor Drones on the Sunshark. They're detachable, and armed with ionrifles that can be overcharged to produce a S8 Blast each. Fairly neat, I'd say. So the Sunshark's weaponry is twin-linked missile pod, 2 Interceptor Drones with twin-linked ionrifles, 2 seeker missiles and of course the main bombing armament. And the Sunshark is a Fast Attack choice in the FOC.
Speaking of FOC, looks like it's confirmed that the Riptide is indeed an Elite slot - no indication to the amount you can field, though. Curiously enough, in the 'rep lists the entry says "One XV104 Riptide..." which could be interpreted that there might be a way to field more in a single Elite slot. Don't know how far-fetched that is, but still...
Velocity Tracker is the Skyfire upgrade. Riptides and Broadsides at least can field these.
The ionrifle that the Pathfinders field contraticts a little with it being said being exclusive to the Pathfinders, but still the drones can field it too. But it seems to be the same weapon. Probably with severe restrictions (like 1 per team or 1 per 5 Pathfinders) but it does compete with the existing rail rifle. Pathfinders are still in Fast Attack.
Supporting Fire is an army special rule, so if not all, then at least a vast majority of the army possesses this. At least Broadsides did, according to the 'rep. And well, it is an army special rule. And yes, this is the one enabling nearby units to overwatch in addition to the just one that's being assaulted.
Stealth teams are still in Elite-slot. And the upgrade for BS2 overwatch is called "Counterfire defence systems". Hard to say if this is a support system or a team upgrade.
Broadsides still in Heavy Support.
For some odd reason all Crisis-suits seemed to be carrying the bonding knife. Not just the team leader anymore, apprently. And deducing from the hardpoint choices, multitracker indeed seems to be built in to the suits now. Still no idea what the elusive Puretide engram neurochip actually does, but it is carried by the XV8-05 commander in the 'rep. CIB and AFP are still experimental, it seems.
There's a codex size-comparison chart for the battlesuits, where it can be seen how the new Enforcer suit and the Broadside suit is 1,5 times as tall as the regular XV8. Not sure how well this translates to the models, but with what we've seen, that may be the case pretty accurately.
Deducing from the markerlight usage in the 'rep, the Crisis and the Broadsides still remain as BS3 units.
That's about it, I'll come back with more if I notice anything worthwhile.
[edit: Oh, and the Riptide's Ion Accelerator is S8 Large Blast when overcharged. Not S9, remembering that it's been speculated.]
Shaso has contradicted himself on this a couple times. April or June.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, those other 'rumors' are pretty thin. Store owners are the last to hear about this kind of thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's the rest of the 'rumors' Natfka has posted:
I want to be upfront right away, we do not yet know when this codex is coming, only that it is supposedly next in line. However there are some strong hints that it is coming and very soon. Lets take a look at these hints, and you can make of them what you will.
Missing Models
Models gone from display cases at Warhammer World. While not an obvious "codex is ready" type of thing, having quite a few models missing from the display cases means that they are probably having pictures taken for a battle report, or White Dwarf article, or even for the codex itself.
Black Library Novel Release
This book has not been mentioned yet, and seems to have a release date in March. At this point it seems obvious that the date will be towards the end of March. This could very well lead into a full on Tau 40k release as well.
If you are looking for the full article discussing this, it was just posted last night at midnight.
Rumored bit from our Comment Section on Faeit 212 yesterday
A big thanks to Shaso_iceborn for visiting us yesterday and joining in on the comment section. He left a nice little tidbit about the timing of Tau for the readers here, and this is it.
shaso_icebornMarch 5, 2013 at 11:03 AM For Tau lovers, I wouldn't worry about a backache in April as your wallet might just become a lot lighter.
I was wondering why there wasn't a Tau rumor thread with them supposedly around the corner.
This is the first real time it's been mentioned for June, but there are other's speculating that it will be April in the same post. In the last thread there someone mentioned May from a "reliable source" with no questions asked.
So a three month window. That's actually pretty narrow considering the last two years of Tau rumors.
Savageconvoy wrote: I was wondering why there wasn't a Tau rumor thread with them supposedly around the corner.
This is the first real time it's been mentioned for June, but there are other's speculating that it will be April in the same post. In the last thread there someone mentioned May from a "reliable source" with no questions asked.
So a three month window. That's actually pretty narrow considering the last two years of Tau rumors.
The last Tau rumor thread got closed for going OT.
that's not what the rumors that you posted said...
I agree that they are not pretty reliable, but as I see it we have two release dates: April and June.
Seeing how GW released Daemons few weeks back I am pretty convinced we will see our blue guys in June rather than April.
But we can expect WD info about what we are going to receive, just like it was for Chaos, DA and Daemons.
We shall see, I accept that we have to take everything wit ha grain of salt here. I am just glad Tau are finally getting codex. Still no info on a writer dough, even if codex is already fully written.
I'm glad just to be hearing things, but I agree about the rumors, pretre.
I really hate seeing a "safe" rumor. One that is easily shrugged off as "I must have misunderstood what the supplier info meant" or something with large windows of opportunity. Even something as simple as "X month's WD" at least gives me a little bit of assurance that the poster is making a claim that can be proven wrong and they're backing it up.
That being said, would GW pull the old models? I've always seen plenty of old kits at my FLGS that didn't sell before a codex dropped.
Release Schedule WD 393 starter TRUE WD 394 CSMTRUE WD 395 WoCTRUE WD 396 Hobbit TRUE DA are the last available for pre-orders in 2012 TRUE After that...
CD/DoCDUPLICATE Tau PENDING HE PENDING Eldar PENDING LM PENDING
Antipathy:
Spoiler:
Tau Rumors - Oct 2012
the old trackers (elite cavalry with sniper rifles) PENDING vultures (fast attack jump infantry) PENDING ridden kroot monsters previously from fwPENDING
Demiurg:
Spoiler:
Starter Set Rumors - July 2012
RRP for Starter set is 75 pounds TRUE Flyers - Tau, PENDING Flyers - Eldar PENDING Tyranid Harpy PENDING
Natfka:
Spoiler:
Tau Rumors - March 2013
via an Anonmyous Source from the Faeit 212 inbox
None of the Forgeworld suits will be in the new Tau codex. PENDING
There are two new suits, however and the crisis and broadsides are both being redone and are very distinct from one another. PENDING
The hazard suits will remain as a Forgeworld supplement and are even referenced in the fluff in a few places. They're just non-standard issue and still considered in prototype for various reasons. PENDING
The Kroot hq replaces the 1+ requirement on fire warriors with a Kroot unit. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
sky ray orbital blast ability. forgo his full turn of shooting for a single unlimited range blast that is:strength X AP 3 (wound on 2+,plasma corrosion, blast) PENDING plasma corrosion - any enemy model hit under the blast rolls a d6 every turn for the remainder of the game on a roll of 1-3 the unit or model suffers d6 strength 4 AP5 hits. On a roll of 4-5 the unit suffers 2d6 strength 5 AP 4 hits. On a roll of a 6 the unit is hit with 2d6 strength 6 AP 2 hits with the blind special rule. (these are test rules and subject to change)
Tau fire warriors will have the OPTION to upgrade their tau fire warriors to bs 4 PENDING
battle suits are getting/got new models but have the same profile as now with the inclusion of an option to make them toughness 5 (cost or name is unknown) PENDING
The kroot is getting a HUGE monster that looks like something from fantasy. It has kroot riding it but is under going constant rule changes due to either dying to quickly or for lack of usage. PENDING From what I remember seeing it has 5 wounds but only a 5+ save and was over priced IMO. PENDING
kroot gain furious charge and move through cover and start with a 6+ save that can be upgraded to 5+ with shaper for an additional 2pts per model (making them 8pts per model) - remember this could change! PENDING
finally their is options to make all your battle suits have 2+ saves for 20pts per model - all war gear that is in the current codex has been reduced slightly. PENDING
the tau dread knight walker rumours you have read are 100% TRUE PENDING
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 4 4 6 8 4 2 4 8 2+/4+ PENDING
points which were : 210pts. note the points were highlighted in red marker which means they are subject to change at next play testing. TOO VAGUE
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
Gatling ion blaster: 30'' S:6 AP:3 Assault:3 PENDING plasma storm blaster: 40'' S:9 AP:1 Assault:1 (lance,system failure,implosion) PENDING
system failure: If you score a glancing or a penetrating hit on a roll of a 6 you cause a system failure in the enemy tank/flyer. The tank/flyer cannot move or shoot for the remainder of the turn. The tank/flyer controlling player must roll a d6 every turn for the remainder of the game, on a roll of 1 the tank/flyer has a system failure again and may not shoot or move again. PENDING
implosion: if you score a explosion on a tank/flyer then it explodes 2d6 inches instead of the normal d6. PENDING
The new big kroot model is actually the krootox giant, from what I have been told fluff points to the tau making the krootox genetics being advance and in doing this increasing the size, strength and toughness. PENDING
the krootox giant has the following rules and stats - these I believe will change as we have had much discussions upon this unit and cannot be certain if it is powerful enough for a competitive environment.
Krootox Giant: WSBS S T W I A LDSV 6 3 8 6 4 1 5 7 4+ PENDING
Special rules: Smash, monstrous creature, rage,mental without control, move through cover,fleet PENDING
mental without control: If your krootox giant loses his krootox rider then the Giant must pass a leadership test every turn otherwise will attack the closest enemy unit. If the Giant cannot reach a target then it misses it next turn while it cools down. PENDING
this unit at the moment costs : 200pts & can upgrade it's armour save to 3+ with a piece of war gear from the kroot armoury PENDING
it's an air caste pilot who is tau, not an alien. PENDING
There are some expanded vespid options being explored and the Tau empire is really being fleshed out as a commerce driven "all are welcome if they serve the common good" attitude. PENDING
the current schedule calls for Daemons in feb TRUE flyers in march. PARTIALLY TRUE
A fantasy update in April PENDING it's 40k and a little bit of hobbit from May to August with a new supplement TOO VAGUE? a big launch in September for 40kPENDING then a fantasy fall and shares Christmas. TOO VAGUE
Tau Rumors - Oct 2012
-Tau are coming early next year. PENDING -Unit profiles are being finalized. TOO VAGUE -The Tau are looking more and more like it will utilize and potentially modify the allies feature. PENDING -unique fortifications. PENDING -HQ option to make crisis suits troops (not a special character, just an upgrade) PENDING -crisis suits remain roughly the same but have a couple new weapon options. PENDING -New 1-per-squad weapons PENDING -new heavy support suit that has stats like a carnifex and no jet pack, just a big mech PENDING -new elite suit that has a lot of sub 18" gun options, with a high rate of fire, or low AP. High toughness and -good armour save at a minor loss of mobility (think jump pack instead of jet pack) PENDING -two flyers, one for AtA one for AtG (same basic fuselage) PENDING -fire warriors are a little bit better and have more of a stormtrooper / commando feel, than a rank and file guardsman feel. PENDING -oh and one of the other things right now, I was able to confirm that the current playtest is that firewarriors who do move in the movement phase may immediately run after firing their pulse carbines in the shooting phase. PENDING
Release Schedule Rumors - August 2012
- Tau Copperhead (finished), PENDING - Tau have a system of unit upgrades that get unlocked by another unit or other effects. For example, a Firewarrior cadre with an ethereal next to it, with markerlight support and scouting kroot unit will get a serious buff. Every unit has a small chart for three of these effects. PENDING
Harry from Warseer:
Spoiler:
40k Release Schedule -
August 2012
CSMTRUE Dark Angels TRUE Tau PENDING Sisters PENDING Eldar PENDING SMPENDING (With 2nd waves and odds and sods thrown in)
Larry vela:
Release Schedule JAN: Dark Angels DUPLICATE FEB: Daemons DUPLICATE MAR: Wave month (hobbit, warriors of chaos, 40k) DUPLICATE APR: High Elves PENDING MAY: Tau PENDING JUN: Summer wave (40k, supplement book for 40k) PENDING JUL: Lizardmen PENDING AUG: Mystery Box PENDING SEP: Wave month DUPLICATE NOV: Eldar PENDING
Tau Thread - July 2012
Warriors of Chaos (CSM?) PARTIALLY TRUE and Dark Angels are next TRUE Tau and Eldar after that PENDING There are kroot in the Tau Codex PENDING No Lamprey PENDING Logan rumors are fake TOO VAGUE No wave of fliers this year TRUE No more multi-part plastic characters, moving to multi-part finecast FALSE
shaso_iceborn:
Spoiler:
More Tau - March 2013
Tau will be released in June, PENDING a new Farsight model. PENDING New Kroot HQ, PENDING 2 New Fliers PENDING 2 new Suit options PENDING
Tau Races - March 2013
no new races (no Demiurge after all). PENDING Kroot will be expanded PENDING New Vespid were play-tested I am awaiting confirmation as to whether or not they made into final print. SPECULATION There are multiple fliers and and new units. PENDING
Big Tau Suit - Nov 2012
'big tau suit': WS2, BS4, S5, T6, W4, I2, A2, Ld8, Sv2+4++ PENDING
Tau Rumors - Nov 2012
Basically according to my sources it's pretty much a Dreadknight sized suit with dual (note not twin linked) rail cannons and SMS with a rule for something I will call "hail-fire" in that it shoots massive barrage of weapondry if not moving in the movement phase. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Oct 2012
Mako as well as the Copperhead for flier names. PENDING My sources still say June for the release PENDING I have also heard the Hammerhead will receive a Swordfish option turret PENDING one of the first 4-in 1 tank kit boxes with an extra sprue added as well as a price increase. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
he said during playtest all Tau got a DtW reroll. Tau in Suits got a 5+ DtW. PENDING
The Kroot monster is very cool looking, but I fear rules wise its going to suffer from Pyrovore syndrome. Its expensive, and shortlived. A beast in CC, but it's hard to get it there. Roughly the size of a Maulerfiend, its like a hybrid between the Krootox and the Great Knarloc. Beaked head. 4legged. Over muscled. Kinda apelike pose and body structure. PENDING
The "uber-suit" is NOT at all like a wraithlord. It is not suited for CC, and really cant be outfitted for that role. Last I saw the T was only 7, but others are saying it is T8. I was talking about it with my source earlier and he made mention of the plasma weapon having ignore cover and thinking it will be the load out of choice. He felt that it was very balanced points to capability wise for its role in the codex. Visual wise it is definitely in line with the battle suit. Reminds me a lot of the old BattleTech line merged with Tau aesthetic.PENDING
I don't think the Vespid Scooter made the cut. It was in a number of early drafts, kind of like the genosian fighters in Star Wars. Yes, flying creatures with a flying vehicle... Named after a famous motorized bike.... 80s GW may have done this, not 10s. SPECULATION
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
Ethereals: These now grant army wide special rules and bubble rules, but there are different options. They function roughly much like those recent Dark Angels banners. So one option might be army wide Ld rerolls while in play, plus units in 12" are fearless. Another option might be one unit in army gets salvo once per turn, and all units in 12" get rerolls to hit. PENDING
Kroot: Everyone's favorite birdmen get Scout, Furious Charge, Move thru Cover. Kroot Hounds and Kroot hawks! Shaper can unlock additional unit upgrades. PENDING
"Sneaky Kroot": Look for an ELITES Kroot unit that can hide in terrain like Ymgarl Genestealers. PENDING
Knarloc: The new big beasty model, very similar to the Forgeworld Great Knarloc (see below). Monstrous Creature, with a trample attack allowing it to run 3d6" and cause 2d6 S6 AP6 wounds to any unit it crosses. It may additionally use this special move to charge a unit, gains +2A and the assault-grenades ability when charging in this manner. PENDING
Vespid: The maligned bug men are redeemed! Big improvements, weapon range increase, point reduction, hit and run. PENDING
Vespid Flyer: Smallest flyer in game, like a jetbike, single blaster as weapon, vector-dancer PENDING
Fortifications: Deep striking turrets as fortification options. Burst cannons or missile pods options. PENDING
Tau Flyer Transport: 13 13 12 armor, holds a full Fire Warrior or Crisis Suit squad, or single Uber-suit. Not a lot of weapons, but HP:3, and has a save from wargear that can be taken. Deep strike. Rules-wise is focused on getting units reliably to a location. PENDING
The Uber-suit: So many options currently it's hard to keep them straight. It's a mobile weapon platform, with rail guns as it's main weapon system, - which can be upgraded to a plasma weapon system or ion cannons. Classified as monstrous creature. 2+/4++ save. It can forgo shooting and movement to gain 2++ save. The Uber can move as jump infantry if it does not shoot it's main weapons. VERY HIGH toughness, no existing weapon can instant death it. Although it can smash if it has to, it is not designed as a close combat unit at all. Cost is comparable to a Terminator squad. It can take drone support. PENDING
FOC: Some specific HQs move Crisis Suits to troops. One moves two Kroot units to troops. PENDING
Psykers-defense: All Tau have some base immunity to psychic powers, and thus any Tau unit can deny the witch, with the suits gaining an improvement to this roll. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
Caveat: Many of these are said to be "in process". Don't look for *exact match* rules to survive to the printed codex.
Crisis Suits: Look for more posable new models. PENDING Unit keeps its high level of customization, with several upgrades to stat lines possible. PENDING New flakk missile pods. PENDING New combi-kit includes Broadside parts. PENDING
Stealth Suits: Models unchanged. PENDING Have stealth, (obviously), plus optional drone granting shrouding. PENDING
Sky Ray: Last edition's trainwreck gets a new lease on life. Flakk missiles, plus has orbital bombardment (much like SM version, but with a lingering effect). PENDING
Fire Warriors: Same nasty gun. Still BS:3, but with a Shas'O can upgrade unit to BS:4. PENDING
Drones: Any drone can be used for Look Out Sir rolls for any model in the unit they are attached to. PENDING
Markerlights: A single hit increases BS of all other units targeting the victim by +1. Multiple markerlights have no additional effects. OUCH - look out for possible BS:5, Fire Warrior volleys now! Markerlights improve snapfire against marked flyers to 5+ instead of 6, but must first hit the flyer with a 6 themselves. PENDING
Networked Markerlights: A longer range twin linked version. Vehicles only. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Tau Q2/Q3 2013 PENDING - kroot are in fact still part of Tau, and have a new unit or two including a beastly transport PENDING - There are no demiurge in the Tau codex PENDING - new crisis suits PENDING - multiple new suits in the codex, crisis being what we know, PENDING - there is also a smaller suit similar to the stealth suit, but not as bulky designed for close combat, PENDING - broadsides while the same relative size as a crisis suit have much more bulk to them and are a separate build/model. PENDING - bigger suit, which has been reported from others. Reports have it being a ranged beast(metaphorically, not literally) with 2 twin linked rail cannons and a missile option. So I'm sure it will become a target of choice in games PENDING - new cc suit which will share a box with the new stealth suit. PENDING - the new piranha option is to transport a cc suit unit, this option replaces the drone pods on the sides PENDING - plastic kit in the works for pathfinders PENDING - the ethereals have a new race that they are using as a psychic conduit. PENDING - remora drones will be in the codex as flyers PENDING - Flyer has dual gattling cannons PENDING - Flyer has option for rail guns PENDING - Flyer has options for AA missiles or bombs, But can't take both. PENDING - Jaws Railgun Mostly confirmed this is the way of it, but that it does have a max distance. Some conflicting rumors that you roll for number of hull points it penetrates when fired, or it's fixed. And also conflicting sources saying if it penetrates it causes 2 hull points of damage vs 1. PENDING
Tau Rumors - August 2012
- Tau Codex early next year. PENDING - Kroot and other existing allies are there, however they are limited. PENDING - There appears to be an "Allies" supplement which will be out about the same time and include many more options. PENDING - Crisis suits completely redone. PENDING - Stealth suits completely redone. PENDING - Pirahna has new option and I am not sure if it will be reboxed together or be sold as an upgrade kit. PENDING - New Pathfinders were seen being worked on a while back. PENDING - Ethereals expanded, new unit options around them. PENDING - There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. PENDING - The floating chair ethereal was seen being worked on for a new model. PENDING - New fast skimmer sized between hammerhead and pirahna. PENDING - Flyer has dual gattling cannons PENDING - Flyer has option for rail guns PENDING - Flyer has bombs (not missiles!?) PENDING - Railguns have a JOWW effect, they can hit multiple models in a line, but if hitting vehicles has a max number of hull points it can cause. the way this is described is it draws a line from the barrel to table edge, every model under starts taking hits starting with the closest. if it hits a vehicle or structure with HP, its strength drops, once it hits 3 or a table edge or fails to make a penetrating hit its done. rhino line's watch out! PENDING - There is some rumor of an Anti Psyker weapon. like night fighting, but no psychic powers for a game turn. PENDING - There is no flyer dedicated transport, and the existing flyer is going to be competing against some very good other options PENDING - The jetpack troops have some option to "pop up and shoot" from behind cover. PENDING
Flyers - June 2012
Before end of August 2012 FALSE Eldar dual kit. Fighter, bomber/heavy, transport. Heavy attack and transport share design PENDING Tau fighter/gunship, size of stormtalon. new missiles options involving markerlights PENDING Tau transport in codex PENDING Dark eldar bomber in August PENDING Third Necron Flyer in 2013-ish PENDING
Necrons/Tau/SM - Sept 2010
- Tau - New Heavy support platform. Basically immobile deep striked! heavy weapon and crew. Rail and Ion Cannon, and missile launcher are all obvious options
here, but nothing solid with the rumor. PENDING -Tau Assault Skimmer. Something between size of piranha and hammerhead, fast skimmer open topped, assault on disembark. PENDING - Update: Yes, its assault after a flat out move, and has the "drop troops along path" option similar to the storm raven. its supposedly a dedicated transport option for one new unit.PENDING - New Drop ship. Not the FW one, but something new. Holds a boatload of fire warriors, or a few battle suits. PENDING - New battle suits. Not sure if these are the "next gen" suits or just heavy suits redone with out metal bits. PENDING
Lol. I was actually just going through your Rumor Accuracy thread earlier (amazing work, btw). Somehow I glossed over "Antipathy's" section though. Here's hoping we see some more leaks soon.
The more comprehensive thread was just locked, so that I can't keep the first post updated. Well, good luck with the Tau Codex in June then.
BTW even shaso-iceborn doesn't believe it's June:
Tau will be released in June, along with a new Farsight model. New Kroot HQ, and the options Nafka mentioned above. His source on this one is very good.
6 minutes later:
Are you guys ready for April and the lightened wallet the new Tau codex brings? 2 New Fliers, 2 new Suit options, a Uber-suit, New kroot HQ option, lots of new kits and better rules and options. Us Tau are about to finally get RETRIBUTION!!!! Sorry imperial players but I will be "lighting" you up here very soon.
3 hours later:
I meant April with apoc in June or July sorry for the confusion was having a conversation in person at same time as post.
I have a dilemma with this new dates, if its April, i`ll only have time to save up enough money for a Flyer and a Codex, and thats only if the flyer price is in line with the razorwing (37€), if its may, i might be able to buy all the new goodies i cant help my self up but to buy... This first world problems, so troublesome.
Guesses for the new suits looks? Hands up for the blocky look but more stylish and posable!
Its very nice news to hear that its comming, it so exciting! Now i need to take care of my wallet so nothing can stop me from saving tons of money.
PD: Graints of salt guys, remember to take them with you and dont let the hype get to you.
supposedly the models have been done for years now, and apparently they look good from what I hear. The uber-suit (can we come up with a better name for that?) is supposedly based off the Kitbashed Tau Titan made a while back, and honestly I'd be happy with that.
The flyer rumors pointed towards a decent/mediocre flyer that I guess looks like a flying Piranha.
Not many details about model design from what I've scene.
Armed with sniper rifles and had the scout rule IIRC.
Which were in the Chapter Approved list.
This was before the Knarloc Cavalry came out though, and they were made using Cold Ones with Krootox heads with the forelimbs removed.
In fact, I still even have the Chapter Approved from 2004!
Chapter Approved wrote:
Trackers are most frequently used as mounted scouts, but also play a light cavalry role on the battlefield, where they can harass the enemy with their ranged weaponry or charge an exposed flank should the opportunity present itself.
They counted as having an Auspex, had cavalry rules with the exception of being able to move through woods and jungles without the need for a difficult terrain test. They also had the ability to make a move after both sides set up but before the first turn.
The Kroot Tracker Kindred numbered between 5 to 10 Kroot Trackers, with a mandatory Shaper upgrade. Shapers could choose additional equipment from the Tau armoury.
That doesn't sound too great. Plastic Kroot cavalry would be awesome though. Hopefully, an all Kroot or almost all Kroot army will be possible. We'll see.
Some new Kroot models would make sense, and cavalry would be the obvious choice, presuming a new unit. But maybe it's just plastic versions of Kroothounds or Krootoxen...
Release Schedule WD 393 starter TRUE WD 394 CSMTRUE WD 395 WoCTRUE WD 396 Hobbit TRUE DA are the last available for pre-orders in 2012 TRUE After that...
CD/DoCDUPLICATE Tau PENDING HE PENDING Eldar PENDING LM PENDING
Antipathy:
Spoiler:
Tau Rumors - Oct 2012
the old trackers (elite cavalry with sniper rifles) PENDING vultures (fast attack jump infantry) PENDING ridden kroot monsters previously from fwPENDING
Demiurg:
Spoiler:
Starter Set Rumors - July 2012
RRP for Starter set is 75 pounds TRUE Flyers - Tau, PENDING Flyers - Eldar PENDING Tyranid Harpy PENDING
Natfka:
Spoiler:
Tau Rumors - March 2013
via an Anonmyous Source from the Faeit 212 inbox
None of the Forgeworld suits will be in the new Tau codex. PENDING
There are two new suits, however and the crisis and broadsides are both being redone and are very distinct from one another. PENDING
The hazard suits will remain as a Forgeworld supplement and are even referenced in the fluff in a few places. They're just non-standard issue and still considered in prototype for various reasons. PENDING
The Kroot hq replaces the 1+ requirement on fire warriors with a Kroot unit. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
sky ray orbital blast ability. forgo his full turn of shooting for a single unlimited range blast that is:strength X AP 3 (wound on 2+,plasma corrosion, blast) PENDING plasma corrosion - any enemy model hit under the blast rolls a d6 every turn for the remainder of the game on a roll of 1-3 the unit or model suffers d6 strength 4 AP5 hits. On a roll of 4-5 the unit suffers 2d6 strength 5 AP 4 hits. On a roll of a 6 the unit is hit with 2d6 strength 6 AP 2 hits with the blind special rule. (these are test rules and subject to change)
Tau fire warriors will have the OPTION to upgrade their tau fire warriors to bs 4 PENDING
battle suits are getting/got new models but have the same profile as now with the inclusion of an option to make them toughness 5 (cost or name is unknown) PENDING
The kroot is getting a HUGE monster that looks like something from fantasy. It has kroot riding it but is under going constant rule changes due to either dying to quickly or for lack of usage. PENDING From what I remember seeing it has 5 wounds but only a 5+ save and was over priced IMO. PENDING
kroot gain furious charge and move through cover and start with a 6+ save that can be upgraded to 5+ with shaper for an additional 2pts per model (making them 8pts per model) - remember this could change! PENDING
finally their is options to make all your battle suits have 2+ saves for 20pts per model - all war gear that is in the current codex has been reduced slightly. PENDING
the tau dread knight walker rumours you have read are 100% TRUE PENDING
WSBS S T W I A LDSV 4 4 6 8 4 2 4 8 2+/4+ PENDING
points which were : 210pts. note the points were highlighted in red marker which means they are subject to change at next play testing. TOO VAGUE
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
Gatling ion blaster: 30'' S:6 AP:3 Assault:3 PENDING plasma storm blaster: 40'' S:9 AP:1 Assault:1 (lance,system failure,implosion) PENDING
system failure: If you score a glancing or a penetrating hit on a roll of a 6 you cause a system failure in the enemy tank/flyer. The tank/flyer cannot move or shoot for the remainder of the turn. The tank/flyer controlling player must roll a d6 every turn for the remainder of the game, on a roll of 1 the tank/flyer has a system failure again and may not shoot or move again. PENDING
implosion: if you score a explosion on a tank/flyer then it explodes 2d6 inches instead of the normal d6. PENDING
The new big kroot model is actually the krootox giant, from what I have been told fluff points to the tau making the krootox genetics being advance and in doing this increasing the size, strength and toughness. PENDING
the krootox giant has the following rules and stats - these I believe will change as we have had much discussions upon this unit and cannot be certain if it is powerful enough for a competitive environment.
Krootox Giant: WSBS S T W I A LDSV 6 3 8 6 4 1 5 7 4+ PENDING
Special rules: Smash, monstrous creature, rage,mental without control, move through cover,fleet PENDING
mental without control: If your krootox giant loses his krootox rider then the Giant must pass a leadership test every turn otherwise will attack the closest enemy unit. If the Giant cannot reach a target then it misses it next turn while it cools down. PENDING
this unit at the moment costs : 200pts & can upgrade it's armour save to 3+ with a piece of war gear from the kroot armoury PENDING
it's an air caste pilot who is tau, not an alien. PENDING
There are some expanded vespid options being explored and the Tau empire is really being fleshed out as a commerce driven "all are welcome if they serve the common good" attitude. PENDING
the current schedule calls for Daemons in feb TRUE flyers in march. PARTIALLY TRUE
A fantasy update in April PENDING it's 40k and a little bit of hobbit from May to August with a new supplement TOO VAGUE? a big launch in September for 40kPENDING then a fantasy fall and shares Christmas. TOO VAGUE
Tau Rumors - Oct 2012
-Tau are coming early next year. PENDING -Unit profiles are being finalized. TOO VAGUE -The Tau are looking more and more like it will utilize and potentially modify the allies feature. PENDING -unique fortifications. PENDING -HQ option to make crisis suits troops (not a special character, just an upgrade) PENDING -crisis suits remain roughly the same but have a couple new weapon options. PENDING -New 1-per-squad weapons PENDING -new heavy support suit that has stats like a carnifex and no jet pack, just a big mech PENDING -new elite suit that has a lot of sub 18" gun options, with a high rate of fire, or low AP. High toughness and -good armour save at a minor loss of mobility (think jump pack instead of jet pack) PENDING -two flyers, one for AtA one for AtG (same basic fuselage) PENDING -fire warriors are a little bit better and have more of a stormtrooper / commando feel, than a rank and file guardsman feel. PENDING -oh and one of the other things right now, I was able to confirm that the current playtest is that firewarriors who do move in the movement phase may immediately run after firing their pulse carbines in the shooting phase. PENDING
Release Schedule Rumors - August 2012
- Tau Copperhead (finished), PENDING - Tau have a system of unit upgrades that get unlocked by another unit or other effects. For example, a Firewarrior cadre with an ethereal next to it, with markerlight support and scouting kroot unit will get a serious buff. Every unit has a small chart for three of these effects. PENDING
Harry from Warseer:
Spoiler:
40k Release Schedule -
August 2012
CSMTRUE Dark Angels TRUE Tau PENDING Sisters PENDING Eldar PENDING SMPENDING (With 2nd waves and odds and sods thrown in)
Larry vela:
Release Schedule JAN: Dark Angels DUPLICATE FEB: Daemons DUPLICATE MAR: Wave month (hobbit, warriors of chaos, 40k) DUPLICATE APR: High Elves PENDING MAY: Tau PENDING JUN: Summer wave (40k, supplement book for 40k) PENDING JUL: Lizardmen PENDING AUG: Mystery Box PENDING SEP: Wave month DUPLICATE NOV: Eldar PENDING
Tau Thread - July 2012
Warriors of Chaos (CSM?) PARTIALLY TRUE and Dark Angels are next TRUE Tau and Eldar after that PENDING There are kroot in the Tau Codex PENDING No Lamprey PENDING Logan rumors are fake TOO VAGUE No wave of fliers this year TRUE No more multi-part plastic characters, moving to multi-part finecast FALSE
shaso_iceborn:
Spoiler:
More Tau - March 2013
Tau will be released in June, PENDING a new Farsight model. PENDING New Kroot HQ, PENDING 2 New Fliers PENDING 2 new Suit options PENDING
Tau Races - March 2013
no new races (no Demiurge after all). PENDING Kroot will be expanded PENDING New Vespid were play-tested I am awaiting confirmation as to whether or not they made into final print. SPECULATION There are multiple fliers and and new units. PENDING
Big Tau Suit - Nov 2012
'big tau suit': WS2, BS4, S5, T6, W4, I2, A2, Ld8, Sv2+4++ PENDING
Tau Rumors - Nov 2012
Basically according to my sources it's pretty much a Dreadknight sized suit with dual (note not twin linked) rail cannons and SMS with a rule for something I will call "hail-fire" in that it shoots massive barrage of weapondry if not moving in the movement phase. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Oct 2012
Mako as well as the Copperhead for flier names. PENDING My sources still say June for the release PENDING I have also heard the Hammerhead will receive a Swordfish option turret PENDING one of the first 4-in 1 tank kit boxes with an extra sprue added as well as a price increase. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
he said during playtest all Tau got a DtW reroll. Tau in Suits got a 5+ DtW. PENDING
The Kroot monster is very cool looking, but I fear rules wise its going to suffer from Pyrovore syndrome. Its expensive, and shortlived. A beast in CC, but it's hard to get it there. Roughly the size of a Maulerfiend, its like a hybrid between the Krootox and the Great Knarloc. Beaked head. 4legged. Over muscled. Kinda apelike pose and body structure. PENDING
The "uber-suit" is NOT at all like a wraithlord. It is not suited for CC, and really cant be outfitted for that role. Last I saw the T was only 7, but others are saying it is T8. I was talking about it with my source earlier and he made mention of the plasma weapon having ignore cover and thinking it will be the load out of choice. He felt that it was very balanced points to capability wise for its role in the codex. Visual wise it is definitely in line with the battle suit. Reminds me a lot of the old BattleTech line merged with Tau aesthetic.PENDING
I don't think the Vespid Scooter made the cut. It was in a number of early drafts, kind of like the genosian fighters in Star Wars. Yes, flying creatures with a flying vehicle... Named after a famous motorized bike.... 80s GW may have done this, not 10s. SPECULATION
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
Ethereals: These now grant army wide special rules and bubble rules, but there are different options. They function roughly much like those recent Dark Angels banners. So one option might be army wide Ld rerolls while in play, plus units in 12" are fearless. Another option might be one unit in army gets salvo once per turn, and all units in 12" get rerolls to hit. PENDING
Kroot: Everyone's favorite birdmen get Scout, Furious Charge, Move thru Cover. Kroot Hounds and Kroot hawks! Shaper can unlock additional unit upgrades. PENDING
"Sneaky Kroot": Look for an ELITES Kroot unit that can hide in terrain like Ymgarl Genestealers. PENDING
Knarloc: The new big beasty model, very similar to the Forgeworld Great Knarloc (see below). Monstrous Creature, with a trample attack allowing it to run 3d6" and cause 2d6 S6 AP6 wounds to any unit it crosses. It may additionally use this special move to charge a unit, gains +2A and the assault-grenades ability when charging in this manner. PENDING
Vespid: The maligned bug men are redeemed! Big improvements, weapon range increase, point reduction, hit and run. PENDING
Vespid Flyer: Smallest flyer in game, like a jetbike, single blaster as weapon, vector-dancer PENDING
Fortifications: Deep striking turrets as fortification options. Burst cannons or missile pods options. PENDING
Tau Flyer Transport: 13 13 12 armor, holds a full Fire Warrior or Crisis Suit squad, or single Uber-suit. Not a lot of weapons, but HP:3, and has a save from wargear that can be taken. Deep strike. Rules-wise is focused on getting units reliably to a location. PENDING
The Uber-suit: So many options currently it's hard to keep them straight. It's a mobile weapon platform, with rail guns as it's main weapon system, - which can be upgraded to a plasma weapon system or ion cannons. Classified as monstrous creature. 2+/4++ save. It can forgo shooting and movement to gain 2++ save. The Uber can move as jump infantry if it does not shoot it's main weapons. VERY HIGH toughness, no existing weapon can instant death it. Although it can smash if it has to, it is not designed as a close combat unit at all. Cost is comparable to a Terminator squad. It can take drone support. PENDING
FOC: Some specific HQs move Crisis Suits to troops. One moves two Kroot units to troops. PENDING
Psykers-defense: All Tau have some base immunity to psychic powers, and thus any Tau unit can deny the witch, with the suits gaining an improvement to this roll. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Feb 2013
Caveat: Many of these are said to be "in process". Don't look for *exact match* rules to survive to the printed codex.
Crisis Suits: Look for more posable new models. PENDING Unit keeps its high level of customization, with several upgrades to stat lines possible. PENDING New flakk missile pods. PENDING New combi-kit includes Broadside parts. PENDING
Stealth Suits: Models unchanged. PENDING Have stealth, (obviously), plus optional drone granting shrouding. PENDING
Sky Ray: Last edition's trainwreck gets a new lease on life. Flakk missiles, plus has orbital bombardment (much like SM version, but with a lingering effect). PENDING
Fire Warriors: Same nasty gun. Still BS:3, but with a Shas'O can upgrade unit to BS:4. PENDING
Drones: Any drone can be used for Look Out Sir rolls for any model in the unit they are attached to. PENDING
Markerlights: A single hit increases BS of all other units targeting the victim by +1. Multiple markerlights have no additional effects. OUCH - look out for possible BS:5, Fire Warrior volleys now! Markerlights improve snapfire against marked flyers to 5+ instead of 6, but must first hit the flyer with a 6 themselves. PENDING
Networked Markerlights: A longer range twin linked version. Vehicles only. PENDING
Tau Rumors - Tau Q2/Q3 2013 PENDING - kroot are in fact still part of Tau, and have a new unit or two including a beastly transport PENDING - There are no demiurge in the Tau codex PENDING - new crisis suits PENDING - multiple new suits in the codex, crisis being what we know, PENDING - there is also a smaller suit similar to the stealth suit, but not as bulky designed for close combat, PENDING - broadsides while the same relative size as a crisis suit have much more bulk to them and are a separate build/model. PENDING - bigger suit, which has been reported from others. Reports have it being a ranged beast(metaphorically, not literally) with 2 twin linked rail cannons and a missile option. So I'm sure it will become a target of choice in games PENDING - new cc suit which will share a box with the new stealth suit. PENDING - the new piranha option is to transport a cc suit unit, this option replaces the drone pods on the sides PENDING - plastic kit in the works for pathfinders PENDING - the ethereals have a new race that they are using as a psychic conduit. PENDING - remora drones will be in the codex as flyers PENDING - Flyer has dual gattling cannons PENDING - Flyer has option for rail guns PENDING - Flyer has options for AA missiles or bombs, But can't take both. PENDING - Jaws Railgun Mostly confirmed this is the way of it, but that it does have a max distance. Some conflicting rumors that you roll for number of hull points it penetrates when fired, or it's fixed. And also conflicting sources saying if it penetrates it causes 2 hull points of damage vs 1. PENDING
Tau Rumors - August 2012
- Tau Codex early next year. PENDING - Kroot and other existing allies are there, however they are limited. PENDING - There appears to be an "Allies" supplement which will be out about the same time and include many more options. PENDING - Crisis suits completely redone. PENDING - Stealth suits completely redone. PENDING - Pirahna has new option and I am not sure if it will be reboxed together or be sold as an upgrade kit. PENDING - New Pathfinders were seen being worked on a while back. PENDING - Ethereals expanded, new unit options around them. PENDING - There is a FW Tau model which has a unit entry in the codex. PENDING - The floating chair ethereal was seen being worked on for a new model. PENDING - New fast skimmer sized between hammerhead and pirahna. PENDING - Flyer has dual gattling cannons PENDING - Flyer has option for rail guns PENDING - Flyer has bombs (not missiles!?) PENDING - Railguns have a JOWW effect, they can hit multiple models in a line, but if hitting vehicles has a max number of hull points it can cause. the way this is described is it draws a line from the barrel to table edge, every model under starts taking hits starting with the closest. if it hits a vehicle or structure with HP, its strength drops, once it hits 3 or a table edge or fails to make a penetrating hit its done. rhino line's watch out! PENDING - There is some rumor of an Anti Psyker weapon. like night fighting, but no psychic powers for a game turn. PENDING - There is no flyer dedicated transport, and the existing flyer is going to be competing against some very good other options PENDING - The jetpack troops have some option to "pop up and shoot" from behind cover. PENDING
Flyers - June 2012
Before end of August 2012 FALSE Eldar dual kit. Fighter, bomber/heavy, transport. Heavy attack and transport share design PENDING Tau fighter/gunship, size of stormtalon. new missiles options involving markerlights PENDING Tau transport in codex PENDING Dark eldar bomber in August PENDING Third Necron Flyer in 2013-ish PENDING
Necrons/Tau/SM - Sept 2010
- Tau - New Heavy support platform. Basically immobile deep striked! heavy weapon and crew. Rail and Ion Cannon, and missile launcher are all obvious options
here, but nothing solid with the rumor. PENDING -Tau Assault Skimmer. Something between size of piranha and hammerhead, fast skimmer open topped, assault on disembark. PENDING - Update: Yes, its assault after a flat out move, and has the "drop troops along path" option similar to the storm raven. its supposedly a dedicated transport option for one new unit.PENDING - New Drop ship. Not the FW one, but something new. Holds a boatload of fire warriors, or a few battle suits. PENDING - New battle suits. Not sure if these are the "next gen" suits or just heavy suits redone with out metal bits. PENDING
I noticed one rumor made the comment that a Kroot HQ would replace the +1 FW unit with Kroot. That's something I didn't see brought up in other rumors. I thought the +1 unit was a 4th ed thing, are we going to be stuck with units we are forced to bring?
I've also noticed the rumor of a fortification popping up every now and again. Last three books didn't include any new fortifications so I'm really interested to see how this pans out.
My friend reminded me the other day of a list of model names and stock numbers that came out like a year ago, included the Nautilus Defense Platform and the Mako. He still swears by it, but I thought it was a proven forgery. Anyone else know what I'm refering to? I haven't seen it in a long time and can't remember what the story behind it was.
Savageconvoy wrote: My friend reminded me the other day of a list of model names and stock numbers that came out like a year ago, included the Nautilus Defense Platform and the Mako. He still swears by it, but I thought it was a proven forgery. Anyone else know what I'm refering to? I haven't seen it in a long time and can't remember what the story behind it was.
It was never definitely proved to be a forgery, but everyone still holds onto it because it was what they wanted.
Once June rolls around and none of it materializes, we can finally put that one to bed.
Judging by the lack of solid rumours, or rumours with any real information, I'd say it is most likely looking to be June. From memory, we knew pretty much everything in the Dark Angels codex two months before it was announced. How well do GW keep things secret these days?
Ouze wrote: Although I know it won't happen, I'd love to see Kroot Mercenary support.
Good luck hunting flyers, with eviscerators being almost your only anti-tank
Almost... Kroot can certainly make good use of the Aegis Defense Line, complete with Krootox-mounted Quad Gun.
I'm really excited to see the new codex in regards to finally fielding a legal all-Kroot army. I couldn't really be bothered whether it comes out in April or July, but it will give me plenty of time to finish painting my knarloc riders and it means that I will be using my army as counts-as Dark Eldar for the last time at the end of March.
FrozenSoul80 wrote: Judging by the lack of solid rumours, or rumours with any real information, I'd say it is most likely looking to be June. From memory, we knew pretty much everything in the Dark Angels codex two months before it was announced. How well do GW keep things secret these days?
That doesn't seem right at all. Dark Angels-- like Chaos Marines and Chaos Daemons-- had tons of mysterious and false rumors floating around until the actual release. In fact, many of the accurate rumors were only so because they had been taken from the WD battle report that came out a week before!
Fire Caste has just gone up for sale on iBooks today...
time to have a read-through, and see what new units are introduced...
all the new units of Ravenwing were included in that novel, so this one may be a huge spoiler, leading me to believe that Tau are coming in April...
i'll report back tomorrow if i find anything interesting in the book...
I read the blurb about that book, it sounds pretty Imperium-centric... Let me know if Tau are portrayed fairly (which would be a huge change of pace.) If so, I'll get it.
All these damnable rumours are going to force me to restart my Tau army from years ago. If any of these are true then we could be in for an awesome 'dex.
We really haven't seen a stand out codex since 6th dropped. I know there are only three books out. Only one unit really stands out as an amazing unit, the Heldrake. Everything really seems to be relatively balanced so far. I would expect the army to get significantly better, but don't really see it breaking the trend of balance.
It's one of the reasons why I'm very skeptical about certain rumors. Like getting an interceptor railgun, modifying the ally chart/foc, and "mobile" fortifications. I'm also interested to see how viable the all Crisis suit and all Kroot lists would be.
They seem to be very stingy with Sky Fire. Missile upgrades per launcher, Hyrdas soley acting as AA, and the Soulgrinder are the only examples outside of the universal fortifications. None of those had Interceptor or even the option for it. That alone would give Tau the capability that no other army would really have, the ability to create a massive handicap for flyer spamming armies.
I understand that I'm not speaking for everybody and not covering every issue, forgive me if I generalize. The armies that I have seen issues with Flyer Spam are Necrons and IG where they have good flyers, flying transports, and the lack of a reliable interceptor weapons in the current enviornment and both of them are 5th ed books. The trend with 6th edition doesn't show that they're trying to fix the issue of massed flyers.
I'm sure if they did change the trend and actually gave the uber suit... Ok I can't stand calling it that. If they actually gave this Heavy Battlesuit... much better... it would probably limited to a one per army item or insanely expensive. The ability to bring three Heavy Suits and a Fortification would just flip things around too much IMO.
We have stuff that breaks the mold TBH, Thing that increase BS, Things that allow us to fire two weapons and things that allow use ti ignore all that stuff.
I wouldn't say breaking the mold. We can shoot two weapons, but have more restrictive access to special weapons. We have BS increasing items, on BS3 models, and expensive/limited access to them.
Of course both of those are subject to change. The rumor indicated they were going to give suits a BS boost, and significant nerf to markerlights, including the removal of our cover negating ability.
But I don't pretend to know what will or should be changed. There's a lot to fix with Tau and there's a lot of room to work. I'm just guessing some things based off what we've seen recently.
Savageconvoy wrote: Cuttlefish actually sounds familiar. Is there any way that could be the odd flying transport we've heard of? Any specifics about how it's mentioned?
seems to be an open-topped transport...
definitely something new...
we'll see if it makes it into the Codex...
I'm confused about why they would reinvent the wheel with the flyers. They already have the most complete flyer lineup from FW outside of the Imperial Navy. They have a fighter, a freaking spaceship that drops off an entire army, a midsize transport, a weird drone support thing, an attack craft, and drone fighters. Now they want to add two more to that hanger? Stupid. I get the rule about not rebranding FW as GW but they have a history or breaking that rule with Tau (I'm looking at you, skyray and pirannah). Plus, all those models are years old, especially the barracuda, which is the prestige one that everyone will want to buy in the new codex. I doubt they have sold a Barracuda model in the last two months so maybe, hopefully GW will just release plastic versions of two existing craft as opposed to shoveling even more flyers at the air caste. At some point that would just get stupid.
Also, is it too much to ask for one 'regular' strike fighter in the game? The barracuda could be that. All the other flyers, even if they are good ruleswise, just don't really feel right as strike fighters.
I just have trouble waiting for the codex. I really would be happy with anything new. even if it all turns out to be terrible. The least they could do is give new fluff.
Savageconvoy wrote: Cuttlefish actually sounds familiar. Is there any way that could be the odd flying transport we've heard of? Any specifics about how it's mentioned?
Sorry for the long wait -
It's not described much at all - it's implied that it fills the same job as the Devilfish, but I personally think it was a "Devilfish" typo.
Also, another reviewer reminded me that there was another new unit - something the Imperial Guard called the "Skysnipers".
From how little they are mentioned, they are apparently drone-operated/flown Railguns (not likely Railrifles) designed for anti-air.
Otherwise, there's a fair bit of Vespid, Kroot(!) and numerous other 'standard' Tau unit descriptions -
even Tau-tech upgraded Weapon Servitors using Burst Cannons!!
Please note that the following is simply my own thoughts to a release schedule. No rumors on this one, and the intent is to discuss it the possibilities of what is on the horizon with the community.
Hastings Release Order
Tau
High Elves
Eldar
Lizard Men
Tau (April Release, or April pre-orders)
Tau are very much next. There are just too many different sources all saying the same thing, not to mention that Hastings word is canon, and he claimed they were next for us now back in August of last year.
So when? It looks like April is the month. I am not going to guess on whether that is only a few weeks away (although it sure feels like it) for an April 6th release date, or if April is going to be for pre-orders.
GW canteen lady.....she baits Matt Ward with "special" cookies.
I think the whole rumour thing is starting to become a trickle now considering how tight lipped GW is now. Even our reliable resources are getting it wrong.
Guess its just a matter of wait and see now....until someone puts pics up from the WD isn't any ones guess.
Void_walker wrote: I think the whole rumour thing is starting to become a trickle now considering how tight lipped GW is now. Even our reliable resources are getting it wrong.
Personally I think Archonate might be on to something, about no one caring enough. Maybe even the rumor mongers are starting to lose interest in GW and don't feel like wasting their energy anymore?
Wow, has it really been that long? 8 years, two editions...nothing new in that entire length of time.
It seems it's like I said, we will see Tau next month in WD. Here is the comment that comes wit hthe picture: "I had not heard much about Tau in the next White Dwarf yet, and yet here is mention of it from Games Workshop on Facebook. Once again, its not much, but is at least interesting. Perhaps they know more than they are letting out." Source
That's some store on FB. If it is true, the store manager is in trouble. If it isn't true, it just proves the 'store managers don't know jack'. So look for an opening in Grapevine mills.
It seems it's like I said, we will see Tau next month in WD. Here is the comment that comes wit hthe picture:
"I had not heard much about Tau in the next White Dwarf yet, and yet here is mention of it from Games Workshop on Facebook. Once again, its not much, but is at least interesting. Perhaps they know more than they are letting out."
Source
It seems it's like I said, we will see Tau next month in WD. Here is the comment that comes wit hthe picture:
"I had not heard much about Tau in the next White Dwarf yet, and yet here is mention of it from Games Workshop on Facebook. Once again, its not much, but is at least interesting. Perhaps they know more than they are letting out."
Source
He has just been on dakkadakka.
I think you meant that as a joke, but seriously that's where red shirts get their info.
Then why did you start this thread under the title "Tau codex will be released in June"? Just saying
WD codex and full fledged codex - big difference.
They will probably show us in next WD what can we except from Tau before the codex is released ( same thing happened to DA, first we had first look in WD and then we got codex ).
Then why did you start this thread under the title "Tau codex will be released in June"? Just saying
WD codex and full fledged codex - big difference.
They will probably show us in next WD what can we except from Tau before the codex is released ( same thing happened to DA, first we had first look in WD and then we got codex ).
Then why did you start this thread under the title "Tau codex will be released in June"? Just saying
WD codex and full fledged codex - big difference.
They will probably show us in next WD what can we except from Tau before the codex is released ( same thing happened to DA, first we had first look in WD and then we got codex ).
Brother Captain Alexander wrote:So maybe Tau will be released in May?
All in all it will not be April, that's for sure. ( if the latest rumor is to be believed but I think it is indeed true )
I will quote you on that in about three weeks
BTW Natfka has found some Tau pics on a Hungrarian website and is puzzled what they are. They are test sculpts a.o. by Matt Holland shown on Games Day 2008. They usually don't get released, even if it would be a shame with these:
Kroot Shaper
Well just saw on the miniature wargames FB page that
Tau on the Horizon
via MachineSlave on Warseer
"Tau codex no longer available to retailers, just stopped in my local nerd store to get some what-nots and the lad in charge of orders said that the Tau codex is no longer available as well as the Hammerhead, crisis suit and one other unit (I forget which one). He said when that happens to a codex "it is just a few weeks out, so expect to see it by April."
I think this would be very interesting, wouldn't that make it 2 relatively stealthy releases (in terms of how early we have had other leaks and really solid rumours) for 40k in a row.
I have noticed that the Tau kits haven't been restocked in a while at my FLGS, but GW in my region has an issue fulfilling orders, unless it's the pile of hobbit junk which'll be there forever.
superawesomeraptorman over at Warseer General Discussion wrote:Heard a couple of things through the grapevine. They COULD be complete tosh, they could be awesome insights. I'd say the usual dosage of salt.
HQ
- New firewarrior leader - can give certain squads special abilities
- Ethereal have auras - apparently they are ok, nothing to write home about
- no honor guard
- New tank commander special character - has preferred enemy imperial guard (?), use on a hammerhead apparently (best tank to use)
- no HQ alters FOC apparently
Elites
- Crisis suits no new sprue, getting repackaged into 3. This seems to contradict people hearing about a new recut - apparently commanders sprue (special issue weapons) will sneak in here?
- no stealth on stealth suits, will have something to make them harder to shoot still (maybe?)
Troops
- fire warriors 9 points - no idea about new upgrades etc
- kroot lose one point of strength (really that sounds lame)
Fast
- Pathfinders don't take devilfish anymore
- piranhas are cheaper, but not much different
- flyers go here - apparently one is anti air. Not really much news, but apparently dual kit but neither version amazing (more like a dark angels rather than necron flyer kit)
Heavy Support
- Submuntions purchased for hammerheads
- Broadside have strength 8 rail guns -_- BUT can buy skyfire (expensive) but cannot buy A.S.S
- Giant new walker here - pretty tough to kill, apparently his weapons are interesting. I wanted more details, couldn't get them
New abilities
- Single squad gets charged - every unit within 6" can overwatch into the charging squad
- Squad ability from commander (can't remember which one). If unit does not move AT ALL (no relentless, S&P tricks) every model gets extra shot. I got the impression that you can't use jet pack move with this either
- Two marker light hits = NO cover at all (not a marker light hit per -1 cover). Usual BS upgrade
- Seeker missiles can skyfire
- Multi-trackers come standard on crisis suits (or free? dunno which)
General Stuff
- Haven't heard anything about new kroot or vespid stuff
- Haven't heard anything about ANY new race, but wasn't exactly told no new race as opposed to nothing was mentioned
Honestly all I can remember, it might fly in the face of everything we know, and a plastic kit seems to be missing (fire warrior HQ, Flyer, Big Suit plus something?)
Again might be true might not, ce le vi.
Neko over at Warseer General Discussion wrote:Right, just gotten off of the comlink to my contact in the icy north. Let's see now...
The codex is by Vetock.
The Ubersuit will not be competing for your Heavy slots.
Ion weapons will be overloadable.
Units will be able to overwatch to defend nearby comrades.
A new item of support gear will grant skyfire.
The new models are absolutely fabulous, much to the dismay of my future bank balance.
Could you at least say whether they've changed the look of the Crisis suits?
There is a new XV8 varient, but mostly they're the same.
The Dude over at Warseer general Discussion wrote:I've heard no big Kroot beast, which makes sense if the Ubersuit is a Monstrous Creature.
From what we keep hearing about the book being long finished, wouldn't it double up with when he was writing DA? As a first assignment that's pretty hard. I would be tempted to say that this particular tidbit is a pile of horse radishes.
I don't believe a word of this anyway, but how is not updating Crisis suits a surprise to anyone? GW really hasn't been in the business of replacing current plastic kits for the past few years.
lord_blackfang wrote: how is not updating Crisis suits a surprise to anyone? GW really hasn't been in the business of replacing current plastic kits for the past few years.
I agree. They have a kit and they need to get new things out on the market before 3rd party vendors. If they have a retooled Crisis suit, it probably would be released at a later time anyway (IMO). I think we saw this with Chaos and DA - all existing plastic kits were kept in place and they added new things.
There is some precedence for new plastic kits for existing kits... just not existing plastic kits. CSM got new Raptors from the Finecast ones for example. New Crisis suits I think are quite unlikely, but getting them in a box of 3 makes sense, like Obliterators. A new Vespid or Pathfiner plastic kit could be the only things we see redone, since they're currently in Finecast (based off trends from the last couple years).
I like the sounds of the latest batch of rules rumours... maybe the book will actually get released this time
This has come from someone I know who worked at Lenton HQ a couple of months back.
She said that there was a huge mech that resembled Saturn in a cabinet.
The Missile Launchers are where the Rail Cannons or Ion Cannons are sat, where as the arms have some enormous cannons mounted into the forearms, similar to the XV88 from Forge World.
Roughly the size of Dreadknight.
There were two loadouts that she saw.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Could have been a three up though.
Those S8 railguns sound terrible if true. One of the iconic features of the Tau are high strength ranged weapons, and this would mean a trio of Broadsides would have less anti-tank firepower than a Devastator squad. Nerfing the railguns would also mean no way to ID bike heroes without vehicle weapons.
The tau already have plenty of weapons in the anti-transport strength band, why would they get rid of something so iconic to the army?
lord_blackfang wrote: GW really hasn't been in the business of replacing current plastic kits for the past few years.
Actually, they replaced Skaven Clan Rats, VC skeletons, Dwarf Clan Warriors, Land Speeder. That said they didn't replace a.o. Skaven Nightrunners, Khemri Skeletons, Dark Elf and High Elf spearmen who are in dire need.
Keeping the blocky GW Crisis Suits would be a major let down, but then again I am happy with my FW Crisis Suits and broadsides.
@Puscifer: Rule #1 in rumour posting. Never reveal your source if the source might get harmed by that (e.g. lose the job).
I can see 3 tiers of Rail Weapons in this new book - dunno why, but it would make sense.
@Kroothawk: I haven't revealed my source and they won't be harmed from losing their job either. I am 100% certain of that as they no longer have any ties with GW.
Redone Crisis Suits are the only thing that could get me to consider getting back into GW through the Tau. Guess I have nothing to worry about until they disappoint with the Eldar, do I?
What's wrong with that? Considering it's still useful for most light armor, and can still ID a good amount of stuff, it's not that bad. Additionally, if it were to be believed that XV88's will get a Skyfire option, S8 makes it a very potent AA weapon (considering that most Skyfire weapons are S7). It might also fall in line with the whole rail "cannon" rumor in the sense that railguns become S8, and rail "cannons" are S10. It also makes sense in the fact that Broadsides are smaller platforms, and would be equipped with something a little lighter hitting than a Hammerhead.
Stands to reason that if they don't update the Crisis Suits you can expect to be able to take a whole lot more in the army somehow. They have to figure out how to entice us old school Tau players into buying more.
I think the more likely scenario if they are not redone is that another suit is introduced (or something competative with the slot) that makes Crisis Suits less desireable in competative lists. And if you think "they can't do that with such an iconic unit" look no further than the Necron Destroyer.
This is a disgusting thought.
But given the size difference in the Rail weapons, (S6 Rifles, S8 Broadsides, S10 Hammerhead) I do see the logic.
I don't think it's very balanced, but I do see it.
What's wrong with that? Considering it's still useful for most light armor, and can still ID a good amount of stuff, it's not that bad. Additionally, if it were to be believed that XV88's will get a Skyfire option, S8 makes it a very potent AA weapon (considering that most Skyfire weapons are S7). It might also fall in line with the whole rail "cannon" rumor in the sense that railguns become S8, and rail "cannons" are S10. It also makes sense in the fact that Broadsides are smaller platforms, and would be equipped with something a little lighter hitting than a Hammerhead.
And they have 2 of them too, whilst a hammer head only has one.
But then again it is a giant ass robot, so having a railgun or two isn't that unfair...
or maybe the railgun option is moved to the ubersuit and broadsides get the smaller gun but more and for cheaper, maybe 6 twin-linked S8 guns per unit.
It really comes down to how good they will be in terms of points as well.
S8 72" AP2 twin-linked is nothing to scoff at, and with skyfire that's a whole lot of trouble for fliers.
Oh the horror, what WILL i do with All 9 of these broadsides now? /Queue dramatic sofa.
But definitely the st 8 is definitely not much of an issue. Im more concerned with the no A.S.S and what the cost will end up. if they leave the twinlinked plasma option and gave them relenetless i could see them being awesome deathstar but we will have to wait till the codex comes
What's wrong with that? Considering it's still useful for most light armor, and can still ID a good amount of stuff, it's not that bad. Additionally, if it were to be believed that XV88's will get a Skyfire option, S8 makes it a very potent AA weapon (considering that most Skyfire weapons are S7). It might also fall in line with the whole rail "cannon" rumor in the sense that railguns become S8, and rail "cannons" are S10. It also makes sense in the fact that Broadsides are smaller platforms, and would be equipped with something a little lighter hitting than a Hammerhead.
And they have 2 of them too, whilst a hammer head only has one.
But then again it is a giant ass robot, so having a railgun or two isn't that unfair...
or maybe the railgun option is moved to the ubersuit and broadsides get the smaller gun but more and for cheaper, maybe 6 twin-linked S8 guns per unit.
It really comes down to how good they will be in terms of points as well.
S8 72" AP2 twin-linked is nothing to scoff at, and with skyfire that's a whole lot of trouble for fliers.
Hit the nail on the head. 6 TL S8 (I'm on the fence whether they'd be AP2 or AP1, if the rumor is true) shots with skyfire that can reach out over most of a standard game board? Nasty...simply nasty. I'm all for 3 classes of rail weapons, especially if this is how it ends up in the Codex.
Desubot wrote: But definitely the st 8 is definitely not much of an issue. Im more concerned with the no A.S.S and what the cost will end up. if they leave the twinlinked plasma option and gave them relenetless i could see them being awesome deathstar but we will have to wait till the codex comes
Actually, having three "grades" of Rail weapons makes sense, kinda like the three "grades" of Darklight weapons that DE get - Disintegrators, Blasters, and Dark Lances. I could see S6 AP3 Rail Rifles, S8 AP2 Rail Guns on Broadsides, and S10 AP1 Rail "cannons" on Hammerheads. I could also see the Rail Rifles being more common throughout the FOC as a result (possibly as a FW squad upgrade?), it'd give Broadsides a strong anti-armor role (esp with Skyfire), and it'd give people a reason to use Hammerheads over Broadsides again.
In addition, that would also leave room to put Broadside grade Railguns on a Tau Flyer - without putting S10 AP1 Skyfire shots out there. Don't want to make all the other AV12 flyers out there cry too easily, do we?
Oh, and the rumor about a squad upgrade / character giving an extra shot if the squad doesn't move - sounds an awful lot like a Salvo option to me. Maybe as wargear? Or one of those Ethereal "auras" that have been rumored?
S8 Railguns? Broadsides getting nerfed to make the Hammerhead seem useful?
I really hope someone answers that phone. Because I FRIGGIN' CALLED IT!
Honestly I find those rumors particularly hard to swallow. Tau of course not joining the "Buy this HQ to unlock these troops" party would be a big deal breaker for me.
Savageconvoy wrote: S8 Railguns? Broadsides getting nerfed to make the Hammerhead seem useful?
I really hope someone answers that phone. Because I FRIGGIN' CALLED IT!
Honestly I find those rumors particularly hard to swallow. Tau of course not joining the "Buy this HQ to unlock these troops" party would be a big deal breaker for me.
I don't think it's really a nerf. It's more like redefining the role of the Broadside. Right now, there is really not much reason to take a Railhead over a Broad. Now, if they do give the Broad an S8 railgun, but give you the option to give it Skyfire, you have an extremely potent counter to light armor and flyers, without it being OP. A S10 AP1 skyfire weapon is broken; so long as you hit, you will always glance (or even pen) nearly every flyer in the game. Additionally, there aren't many S8 weapons out there with a long reach like a railgun (assuming they don't reduce the range), so when you add it all together and realize that if this is indeed where they're taking the Broadside, it's a quite effective unit.
Ways in which Str 8 broadside railguns might not be horrible
1) Broadsides have 2 railguns instead of a twin linked railgun
2) Crisis suits and other models might be able to purchase them
3) The rumored 'beam' effect may be applied.
4) Broadsides could become cheaper than they are now.
Also, we already have 3 tiers of railguns as the Hammerhead and the Broadside weapons are not the same already. Most of us wanted something more to distinguish them, though I think we were hoping for an upgrade to the Hammerhead rather than a potential degrade to the Broadside.
What's wrong with that? Considering it's still useful for most light armor, and can still ID a good amount of stuff, it's not that bad. Additionally, if it were to be believed that XV88's will get a Skyfire option, S8 makes it a very potent AA weapon (considering that most Skyfire weapons are S7). It might also fall in line with the whole rail "cannon" rumor in the sense that railguns become S8, and rail "cannons" are S10. It also makes sense in the fact that Broadsides are smaller platforms, and would be equipped with something a little lighter hitting than a Hammerhead.
The Tau already have tons of options for dealing with light armor. The railgun is a unique aspect of the Tau army and to see it replaced by something weaker than the lascannons that imperials spam everywhere would be bollocks.
Why take Broadsides if deathrains would be much more agile and only slightly less survivable for 1 less strength and half the price?
And note that I'm speaking as someone who prefers Hammerheads to Broadsides. I'd rather the vehicle railgun get buffed(Along with the currently useless Ion Cannon) than lose the Broadside.
The problem as of now is that we don't know what the model cost will be to tell if its a nerf buff or stays the relative same. the rumor stated that the skyfire will be expensive and we already supposedly get an anti air flyer, seems redundant.
However if we get what seems like a salvo buff if you stand still, perhaps it will make up for it with weight of fire. the only problem i have no are landraiders which i already have problems with st 10 rails. what real weapon do we have to deal with it that actually have a chance. single shot rails off a hammerhead are pretty much hit or miss (also have to see what will happen completely to markerlights)
I think that reducing Strength and AP is a nerf no matter how you look at it. Really I would find it very upsetting as well because they want the Hammerhead to see more table time, but instead of making it a better tank they make the competing unit worse.
Overall the entire rumor list looked like nerfs to me. Seriously nerfing Kroot and Stealth suits?
And expensive S10 Ap1 skyfire railguns isn't broken at all if priced accordingly. That's like saying that S10 AP1 railguns are broken now because they always glance (or even pen) nearly every transport in the game. But that's how it should be. Flyers offer amazing mobility and fire support, but are inherently weak to ground based AA fire. Somehow in 40K people forgot to establish air defenses and flyers are nearly invincible flying tanks, which is absurd. It's not the Broadside's fault that the system is messed up.
And then when I have the codex in hand, you'll say to wait a few months to see what the meta shows. I'll stick to complaining now, thank you.
Seriously though, I'm commenting on a rumor that's posted in the rumor section. What else should we do here? The post mentioned only that the Railgun was reduced in S by 2. So I guess it'll be a S8 AP1 Heavy1 weapon with probably the same range since the rumor didn't mention any other stat changes. Dropping any weapon by -2S is a nerf.
Savageconvoy wrote: And then when I have the codex in hand, you'll say to wait a few months to see what the meta shows. I'll stick to complaining now, thank you.
Seriously though, I'm commenting on a rumor that's posted in the rumor section. What else should we do here? The post mentioned only that the Railgun was reduced in S by 2. So I guess it'll be a S8 AP1 Heavy1 weapon with probably the same range since the rumor didn't mention any other stat changes. Dropping any weapon by -2S is a nerf.
If you take it out of context, then yes, I agree, dropping the S of anything by 2 is a nerf. If you take it in context with all of the proposed updates, it's not necessarily a nerf of the overall unit, but a role shift as I stated. I hate to bring this up, but you also have to look at it in terms of driving sales, as well. If you give the Broadsides a different role than the Railhead, then you can drive the sales of both kits in a positive direction. From a sales standpoint, it's better to have a wide range of highly specialized units than a small range of multi-purpose units, since you can potentially move more product with the former.
Of course, in the end, this is all speculation until the Codexes are in our hands, and our local metas determine how it all pans out.
Savageconvoy wrote: And then when I have the codex in hand, you'll say to wait a few months to see what the meta shows.
Wait, so I'll ask you to be reasonable and use facts and empirical data both before and after the codex is released? I am a bastard!
Seriously though, I'm commenting on a rumor that's posted in the rumor section. What else should we do here?
Sit quietly and contemplate life, the universe, everything?
The post mentioned only that the Railgun was reduced in S by 2. So I guess it'll be a S8 AP1 Heavy1 weapon with probably the same range since the rumor didn't mention any other stat changes. Dropping any weapon by -2S is a nerf.
If that is the only change, then sure, it will be a nerf.
spectreoneone wrote: If you take it out of context, then yes, I agree, dropping the S of anything by 2 is a nerf. If you take it in context with all of the proposed updates, it's not necessarily a nerf of the overall unit, but a role shift as I stated. I hate to bring this up, but you also have to look at it in terms of driving sales, as well. If you give the Broadsides a different role than the Railhead, then you can drive the sales of both kits in a positive direction. From a sales standpoint, it's better to have a wide range of highly specialized units than a small range of multi-purpose units, since you can potentially move more product with the former.
Of course, in the end, this is all speculation until the Codexes are in our hands, and our local metas determine how it all pans out.
This is pretty much what I've been reading into the various rumors. I'm assuming some things will get their mechanics changed - some for the worse, some for the better. I'm also assuming that things we rely on heavily at the moment - Broadsides, Crisis Suits - will be adjusted in ways that make the way we currently use them less optimal or completely unworkable. I also believe - based on how the existing three 6th ed codexes have turned out - that those units will likely have a new role they're optimized for, and that we'll have other options to fill in for what we used to use them for.
Overall, yeah - Broadsides will probably not remain the ultimate sit behind an Aegis and gut anything with an AV from 72" away unit once we get a new codex. I'm ok with that, because they'll still likely have a role they're good at, and we'll likely be able to do something more interesting from a tactical point of view than gunline up and pray.
I don't see how taking it S8 would change the roll at all, other than limiting it's ability to take down high armor vehicles. Perhaps forcing it to take the skyfire upgrade so it can fire at light armor and flyers would change the roll a bit, but still seems silly to me. Afterall, they didn't nerf Missile launchers just so they could get the Flakk upgrade.
And it's rubbish to say that you can't form an opinion based on what's presented. Unless you have NEVER under any circumstances read a summary on a book or seen a movie trailer and said to yourself "I don't think I would like that" then you're no less guilty. I'm taking what's presented and offering an opinion and personal speculation. It's entirely unreasonable to ask me otherwise.
But if the the Broadside option is now cheaper with those St8 AP2 railguns it seems to be an acceptable nerf. I have not taken a Hammerhead in years....its redundant when you are rolling 3 squads Broadsides and all you lose is the large pie plate. Even dropping the range to 60" doesnt seem to me to be too bad as long as the overall price for each suit is dropped.
If you take it out of context, then yes, I agree, dropping the S of anything by 2 is a nerf. If you take it in context with all of the proposed updates, it's not necessarily a nerf of the overall unit, but a role shift as I stated.
If you shift the role of a Heavy Support unit to something amply fulfilled by Elite and Fast Attack Units, it's a nerf.
The rumors look interesting. I'll be curious to see just how big of a release this will be with new models added. Something tells me that the model release will be small given the release date isn't that far from the daemons release. It would be surprising to see a lot of new figs along with this release. I do, however, like the speed in which releases are happening though. 4 codexes already in a new edition and it isn't a year old yet. Hopefully they keep that pace and get all races updated in this edition so all armies start from the same place once a new edition hits in the future. One can hope.
If you take it out of context, then yes, I agree, dropping the S of anything by 2 is a nerf. If you take it in context with all of the proposed updates, it's not necessarily a nerf of the overall unit, but a role shift as I stated.
If you shift the role of a Heavy Support unit to something amply fulfilled by Elite and Fast Attack Units, it's a nerf.
Not really. It's a new role, period. The fact that it's Heavy Support doesn't mean it has to be anti-armor. Not to mention our Elite and FA slots aren't exactly brimming with S8 long range shots to begin with.
Veskrashen wrote: This is pretty much what I've been reading into the various rumors. I'm assuming some things will get their mechanics changed - some for the worse, some for the better. I'm also assuming that things we rely on heavily at the moment - Broadsides, Crisis Suits - will be adjusted in ways that make the way we currently use them less optimal or completely unworkable. I also believe - based on how the existing three 6th ed codexes have turned out - that those units will likely have a new role they're optimized for, and that we'll have other options to fill in for what we used to use them for.
Overall, yeah - Broadsides will probably not remain the ultimate sit behind an Aegis and gut anything with an AV from 72" away unit once we get a new codex. I'm ok with that, because they'll still likely have a role they're good at, and we'll likely be able to do something more interesting from a tactical point of view than gunline up and pray.
This. I really think that they need to freshen up the Tau playstyle. Of course, you'll have the folks that will complain about a shake-up of their valued units (if this pans out, of course). The whole "OMG the sky is falling" schtick is getting really old, really quickly. Much of the doomsaying is being based upon a couple of unconfirmed rumors that are being taken completely out of context of the entire codex.
If this rumored change to the Broads is in fact true, we still don't know how it will fit in with the rest of the Codex. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with discussing the rumors, it just gets old hearing about this "nerf" or that "cheese." The point is, don't freak out about something that's unconfirmed, and out of context. Savageconvoy, nobody is saying don't form an opinion. I know I'm personally saying don't freak out about something that's not fully in context. Seeing a movie prefiew usually provides context, as does a book summary; a rumor saying that XV88's will now have S8 rails with a skyfire option is out of context, because it doesn't give any hint as to why it's getting the reduction in weapon strength. For all we know, they will cost 10 points less, have BS4, with TL S8 AP1 72" range rails with a 20 point skyfire upgrade and relentless. Is that a nerf? I don't think so. Sure, it can't pop the heaviest tanks out there, but that's why you take a Railhead now, or even the new rumored uber-suit. Broadsides end up being your anti-light armor/flyer ground units, and they force you to play in a different way, which isn't the end of the earth, tbh.
It's not like you could really call there being any 'good' codex writers anymore. Even the best ones and most balanced writers of the past are just subsumed into the mess that is the modern GW army/codex books.
If you take it out of context, then yes, I agree, dropping the S of anything by 2 is a nerf. If you take it in context with all of the proposed updates, it's not necessarily a nerf of the overall unit, but a role shift as I stated.
If you shift the role of a Heavy Support unit to something amply fulfilled by Elite and Fast Attack Units, it's a nerf.
Not really. It's a new role, period. The fact that it's Heavy Support doesn't mean it has to be anti-armor. Not to mention our Elite and FA slots aren't exactly brimming with S8 long range shots to begin with.
Yup. LR Punisher, anybody? Definitely not anti-armor. I also am wondering where the ample anti-flyer units are for Tau in the Elite and FA slots (or any slot, for that matter). Also, our best light anti armor in those slots are FBs with a 12" range and MPs with a 36" range. There is nothing else in the army comparable to a S8 with a long range or the possibility of skyfire at the moment. A S8 railgun is creating an entirely new role for a unit of the Tau army to fill; it will probably have a range between 36-72", and will potentiall be a skyfire weapon. There is nothing else in the Tau inventory like it, thus, new role: anti-air.
Something I did just think of, though, maybe they will do it like the Comtemptor Mortis Dreads: gains skyfire if it remains stationary, but perhaps as a piece of wargear (new repurposed A.S.S.?).
@spectreoneone The second comment was more directed to pretre. I understand a lot is left up in the air, but rumors do give a glimpse of what's coming. I myself have a majority of broadsides and suits. Now the army dynamic will change and I understand that. It's an old codex and much work needed to be done. I understand that the better units needed a lot of work too, but it just seems like the wrong approach to me.
The only information we have to go off of is that the Broadside got a reduction in S from it's main gun and an expensive upgrade to give it skyfire. They fundamentally changed the role of anti-tank unit to be anti-light armor. Why not give the Hammerhead a single shot S10 AP1 railgun with skyfire? Has any army been given less access to lascannons or multimelta? Because that's what this would be to Tau. On an army that already had limited availability of firepower, it doesn't seem like a good message.
I understand that there is a lot we aren't seeing, and I'm eagerly awaiting. Though part of me honestly wishes that the broadsides get S8 railguns, because I have a few bets to collect .
@savageconvoy - I would agree with your assessment that Tau were getting a lot of their firepower taken away if Broadsides got S8 railguns... if I didn't think there were some serious, fundamental shifts in Tau armament in the works with this codex.
To expand, you're right - at the moment Tau are limited to S10 railguns in Heavy Support slots or Fusion on suits as viable solutions to AV13/14. In this context, dropping Broadside railguns to S8 leaves only Hammerheads as viable counters to AV13/14 armor.
That said... I feel there's more on the way for Tau. For one thing, I can't imagine that GW is totally ignorant of how narrow our options are for countering AV13/14. We've also heard a variety of rumors hinting at new weapons for Crisis suits - to include ion style guns, or ion cannons that can be overloaded, etc etc etc. I could easily envision a scenario wherein XV8s or some non-HS vehicles get a longer range melta option, or S8 railguns get the Lance special rule, or we get some variant of a Haywire gun. There's any number of ways that GW could address the need to counter AV13/14 at range without requiring S10 72" railguns to accomplish that goal. Any number of them could fundamentally change the style of play from "grab a buttload of XV88s, park them behind an Aegis or in a Bastion, and gut vehicles". It could allow for far more mobile, fluid, or reactive playstyles that are simply not an option with the current codex - precisely because we are so limited options-wise when it comes to dealing with mid-high AV vehicles.
Neko over at Warseer General Discussion wrote:I've not been told anything about our alien allies.
I have just been told that the new interesting tidbits with regards to the Broadsides however:
- The railguns are now different from the vehicle mounted version. Think of these as light railguns.
- The Broadsides now have sniper style pose.
- Broadsides are to cost the same amount as their Forgeworld counterparts
(...)
They currently have less ammo choice (as in they don't have an ammo choice). The new Broadside weapon is a different weapon.
Anonymous source over at Faeit212 wrote:Crisis Suits
The new suits are very similar to those old ones.
The heads don't have a neck and are now lowered into the torso about 25% of the head is below shoulder level.
The arms are a bit shorter too.
Otherwise that's a decent representation of the crisis suits.
Veskrashen wrote: @savageconvoy - I would agree with your assessment that Tau were getting a lot of their firepower taken away if Broadsides got S8 railguns... if I didn't think there were some serious, fundamental shifts in Tau armament in the works with this codex.
To expand, you're right - at the moment Tau are limited to S10 railguns in Heavy Support slots or Fusion on suits as viable solutions to AV13/14. In this context, dropping Broadside railguns to S8 leaves only Hammerheads as viable counters to AV13/14 armor.
That said... I feel there's more on the way for Tau. For one thing, I can't imagine that GW is totally ignorant of how narrow our options are for countering AV13/14. We've also heard a variety of rumors hinting at new weapons for Crisis suits - to include ion style guns, or ion cannons that can be overloaded, etc etc etc. I could easily envision a scenario wherein XV8s or some non-HS vehicles get a longer range melta option, or S8 railguns get the Lance special rule, or we get some variant of a Haywire gun. There's any number of ways that GW could address the need to counter AV13/14 at range without requiring S10 72" railguns to accomplish that goal. Any number of them could fundamentally change the style of play from "grab a buttload of XV88s, park them behind an Aegis or in a Bastion, and gut vehicles". It could allow for far more mobile, fluid, or reactive playstyles that are simply not an option with the current codex - precisely because we are so limited options-wise when it comes to dealing with mid-high AV vehicles.
True, but none of the rumours really seem to point to that direction. It's very unlikely Crisis suits get weapons more powerful than current Melta/Missile Pod. Same for Fire Warriors. No word on new vehicles other than Flyers. Since Tau can't kill things like heavy armour, Monstrous creatures and high-T models like Bikes in assault, they are going to need large number of very powerful guns - which they have in current codex, whatever other faults it has.
There were rumors about allowing them an additional movement at the end of the shooting phase if they use carbines but I don't know how up to date that is.
Shorter arms for the crisis suits would be a bad thing. They are already stubby like a TRex in my opinion and that makes them harder to pose in non L positions.
Lets seriously hope that the writer is NOT the DA codex writer. That codex was full of extremely conservative rules that left most DA players stratching our heads on what were they thinking when it was written!
A couple of thoughts on this, while I can see GW reducing the current strengths on Tau to force a rethink on army composition in order to maximise sales, it is a concern that out of all these rumours, only the negatives seem to be coming to light. I would have expected, at least, a balanced report of good to bad.
I think Tau actually have hoof-like feet. May explain the Battlesuit aesthetic.
They do. They also only have 4 digits on each hand.
Fire warriors don't actually wear boots normally, do they?
I'm not 100%, but I don't think they do...then again, it's fully possible they do wear something over their hooves while they are in armor.
FWs wear sort of an open-toed boot. Their hooves are bare, but there are boots covering their legs. Crisis Suit feet are supposed to emulate Tau hooves. Large middle toe, smaller lateral toe, and tiny 'thumb' toe on the medial side. But the Crisis feet are a bit too long imo, and look too bird-like. It would be nice if they looked more hoofy.
Desubot wrote:urg i hope that rumor for the uber suit being called the riptide is untrue
sounds lame imo. should of been something more nautical ship themed like the broadside, though i cant think of any lol
There are many good synonyms to Broadside that would work much better than the rumoured Rip-Tide designation.
Fusillade, Barrage and Salvo just to name a few.
King Pariah wrote:Taken with a grain of salt, but I have heard that the uber suit is going to be named something along the lines of the Extinction battlesuit.
I hope that you are joking. If not, this would be horrible in that the connotations of such a name would be a drastic move towards painting the Tau as villians.
Would much prefer the name to be "Crossfire", "Fusillade", "Salvo" or "Torrent"
About the strength reduction of the broadsides railgun. I don't really mind the thought if fusion blasters get the FW 18" range and the Tau get other effective anti AV 13-14 units/weapons.
I hope to god that rumour about changing broadside rails isnt true. While it sorta makes sense from a fluffy standpoint, hammerheads suck at AV with their 1 shot and not that reliable chance to hit (never mind the actual chance to do damage after, I often play against orks with CFF), I strictly use it as anti-horde, unless there are no better targets to shoot at. Str 8 takes it into the range of deathrains, while taking the slots of our only other long range AV option (the hammerhead, even though its better at other stuff, and way more expensive per shot). I guess one option would be to take less deathrains and focus the crisis suits on other roles.
Perhaps they are changing the options on crisis sits to not include missile pods so that they don't fight with broadsides for being our long ranged unit.
A lot of people hear these rumors and panic, but you can't take any changes at face value without see what else they changed in the book. What if broadsides lost their S10 railgun and got a S8 one, but they added a new Heavy support tank that could take two. Or maybe one of the new fliers has one. Most new books are designed to give upgrades in one area and downgrades in another. Unless your GKs. My witchhunter army of old (no sisters) became rather sick when that book came out, and still competes to this day.
You can never really know how a unit will do with buffs or nerf until you take the whole book into account.
Wasnt Riptide the name of the master of O`Shova/Farsight and O´Shasherra/Shadowsun? I think i read it on the codex, i dont have it with me by the time im writing this but... If Someone could take a quick look, it would be nice.
KaiserEddie wrote: Wasnt Riptide the name of the master of O`Shova/Farsight and O´Shasherra/Shadowsun? I think i read it on the codex, i dont have it with me by the time im writing this but... If Someone could take a quick look, it would be nice.
MoD_Legion wrote: I hope to god that rumour about changing broadside rails isnt true. While it sorta makes sense from a fluffy standpoint, hammerheads suck at AV with their 1 shot and not that reliable chance to hit (never mind the actual chance to do damage after, I often play against orks with CFF), I strictly use it as anti-horde, unless there are no better targets to shoot at. Str 8 takes it into the range of deathrains, while taking the slots of our only other long range AV option (the hammerhead, even though its better at other stuff, and way more expensive per shot). I guess one option would be to take less deathrains and focus the crisis suits on other roles.
You're completely discounting the fact that there is a rumored "über" suit that is supposed to be DK sized, armed with two railguns. Again, as I've said before, all of this speculation is taking the possible change to Broads out context. GW is going to change things up in the Codex, and they're going to make it so people have to go out and purchase the new models. This serves two purposes: 1. To refresh a stale Codex and bring it line with 6th Ed. and 2. To drive more sales. GW is a business, after all, and they exist to provide this hobby to us, as well as make a profit. I can't fault them in either way, as I am looking forward to a change in the way Tau play, as well as new units, and I have no problem with a business doing something new so they can increase their bottom line, and keep creating the product I enjoy greatly.
Just remember, we don't know how everything is going to work out in the end until Codexes are in hand. Just be glad that GW is going to give the Tau some love...they could have just kicked the can down the road on us and given us the SoB treatment!
superawesomeraptorman wrote:
All I was told is there railgun goes down to strength 8, stays AP1, no more A.S.S, can purchase skyfire (its not super cheap). I don't know how that affects broadsides overall costing though. I also foolishly didn't ask about whether they get both interceptor and skyfire or just skyfire.
Also I can't quite remember but there MIGHT be an option to increase HQ suits to toughness 5.
S8 AP1 "light railguns" with Skyfire would murder a whole lot of things. Broadsides might no longer be the ultimate AV13/14 hunters they are today, but could murder a whole lot of things anyway - to include every single flyer out there, Storm Ravens / Vendettas / Hellturkies included.
If you mounted 1-2 of these on a Tau flyer, it'd pretty much be the ultimate anti-air flyer available at the moment, especially if it ended up with Vector Dancer or something similar. It'd also be amazing against pretty much every land-based armor that's not a Land Raider. That's just wishlisting a bit though.
neko wrote:I believe the anti-air drones are carried by one of the aircraft. An airbourne equivilent to the Devilfish is my understanding.
Maybe my wishlisting isn't that wishful... then again, could easily be a Rail Rifle equivalent instead of a S8 AP1 "light railgun".
superawesomeraptorman wrote:
All I was told is there railgun goes down to strength 8, stays AP1, no more A.S.S, can purchase skyfire (its not super cheap). I don't know how that affects broadsides overall costing though. I also foolishly didn't ask about whether they get both interceptor and skyfire or just skyfire.
Also I can't quite remember but there MIGHT be an option to increase HQ suits to toughness 5.
S8 AP1 "light railguns" with Skyfire would murder a whole lot of things. Broadsides might no longer be the ultimate AV13/14 hunters they are today, but could murder a whole lot of things anyway - to include every single flyer out there, Storm Ravens / Vendettas / Hellturkies included.
If you mounted 1-2 of these on a Tau flyer, it'd pretty much be the ultimate anti-air flyer available at the moment, especially if it ended up with Vector Dancer or something similar. It'd also be amazing against pretty much every land-based armor that's not a Land Raider. That's just wishlisting a bit though.
neko wrote:I believe the anti-air drones are carried by one of the aircraft. An airbourne equivilent to the Devilfish is my understanding.
Maybe my wishlisting isn't that wishful... then again, could easily be a Rail Rifle equivalent instead of a S8 AP1 "light railgun".
T5 would be such a boon for our Shas'el/'o crisis commanders...finally no ID from melta spam!
Amen on the S8 AP1 Skyfire light railgun.
As for the anti-air drone carrying aircraft, that sounds like the Tigershark (not the A-X-10 model with the heavy railguns), which is an Apoc flyer that carries Remoras. That could be some wires crossed with the rumored GWApoc update coming sometime this year, which could possibly (and I'm really wishlisting here) mean a plastic Tigershark kit. I don't forsee this being a part of the Tau Codex release, IMHO, as it doesn't fit in very well with the other rumors of the Tau flyer.
Rented Tritium wrote: It's always possible that the skyfire upgrade itself is what lowers the strength.
That is what I was kind of wondering. S10 direct fire, S8 if used in skyfire mode, since the Hammerhead rail gun has 2 firing options, why not the Broadside rail guns as well?
As for the anti-air drone carrying aircraft, that sounds like the Tigershark (not the A-X-10 model with the heavy railguns), which is an Apoc flyer that carries Remoras. That could be some wires crossed with the rumored GWApoc update coming sometime this year, which could possibly (and I'm really wishlisting here) mean a plastic Tigershark kit. I don't forsee this being a part of the Tau Codex release, IMHO, as it doesn't fit in very well with the other rumors of the Tau flyer.
That response from Neko was in regards to the "Sky Sniper Drone" reference in the latest BL novel. Another poster asked if it was Barracuda style or Tigershark style. His response that it's an airborne Devilfish equivalent makes me think it's more along the lines of how the Barracuda is set up rather than being a Remora carrier.
Rented Tritium wrote: It's always possible that the skyfire upgrade itself is what lowers the strength.
That is what I was kind of wondering. S10 direct fire, S8 if used in skyfire mode, since the Hammerhead rail gun has 2 firing options, why not the Broadside rail guns as well?
But the Skyfire upgrade is supposedly a piece of wargear, and thus not tied to just the "light railgun".
Pure speculation: if they're pulling the Broadside models, and redoing the Crisis models, and we're hearing about XV8 variants, and we've heard about Crisis suits as troop choices... could we see another multi-kit box that has an Elite version, Heavy version, and Troops versions of battlesuits? With various weapons options for each one?
So there'd be a basic Troop suit with like BC/MP/MT, then for XX points you could replace one gun or the other with a Plasma / Melta / Flamer on X suits per squad, and the Team Lead could take XYZ wargear. Then the Elite version can carry more special weapons per squad or per suit. And a Heavy version that carries the new "light railguns" or ion cannons.
S8 is truly disappointing if it turns out to be true. How reliable is melta outside of meltagun range, anyways? Heck, for a weapon we NEED to pen with, it can have trouble with rhinos and chimeras. S8 single shot means it can quite easily just fail to do anything to a 35 point transport. Only 3/16 shots even destroy a rhino. 5 broadsides for a (mostly) guaranteed kill! As opposed to their current incarnation's 3 broadsides. S8 really just makes broadsides irrelevant, even for AA. Unless they go down to 50 pointsor so, including wargear, s8 makes them pure garbage.
uberjoras wrote: S8 is truly disappointing if it turns out to be true. How reliable is melta outside of meltagun range, anyways? Heck, for a weapon we NEED to pen with, it can have trouble with rhinos and chimeras. S8 single shot means it can quite easily just fail to do anything to a 35 point transport. Only 3/16 shots even destroy a rhino. 5 broadsides for a (mostly) guaranteed kill! As opposed to their current incarnation's 3 broadsides. S8 really just makes broadsides irrelevant, even for AA. Unless they go down to 50 pointsor so, including wargear, s8 makes them pure garbage.
S8 AP1 isn't useless at all. I wouldn't pay 80pts for a single twin-linked shot, no, but it's far from useless. IMO it's about as good as a lascannon, and people take those by the bucketload. You may not get the extra D6 that melta at half range does, but things you do pen go boom just as well. Besides, if you take the rumor that A.S.S. is being removed, along with the rumor that some kind of upgrade lets you take an extra shot at max range if you don't move, then maybe the new Broadsides will have Relentless (even if it doesn't have a jet pack), allowing it to move and shoot it's "light railgun", then shoot twice with the undefined upgrade.
Lots of possibilities here. Again, it doesn't have to fill the same role it used to, it just needs to be good at whatever role it does get in order to be worthwhile.
The problem with the light railgun/lascannon comparison is that other armies aren't exactly limited in their ability to take lascannons. For Tau railguns and the majority of anti-armor power comes from railguns. There has been a few rumors that point towards a flyer getting a single railgun as an expensive upgrade.
The problem with the idea of nerfing the broadside is something I've suspected was going to be an issue when Tau got updated. Many Tau players only have the few units that were actually usable in the codex (ie battlesuits, broadsides, FW, Kroot, and Hammerheads). Now you're talking about a nerf to one of the staples just to make another unit seem better or to give it the broadsides old role, or basically making a large selection of an army's models (very expensive models at that) less effective. That's why I'm concerned at least, and I don't think I could be so accepting of the idea that the company has to make money.
Basically it boils down to this for me; Elites and Fast Attack needed more options to S8 and HS did not need less access to S10.
Totally agree that a lot of Tau players are going to get boned by a Broadside with S8 railguns, as that was their only real anti-armor capability. You're also right that it was a testament to how narrow the old codex has become in those terms - we only had 3 HS slots to work with to deal with any armor threat over AV11.
I'm betting that we'll get more options spread across the codex as a result of that - not just FA/Elites, but probably Troops as well. It never really made sense that Tau had literally no ability to deal with anything over AV11 in the Troops section of the codex.
In some ways it's the same deal (to me, at least) as the whole Flamers / Screamers issue - they were essentially autospammed due to how good they were at what they did - Broadsides had the same basic characteristic.
Though, flamers/screamers werent the only efficient way to deal with their particular threat, and nobody was whining about broadsides. 3 of them cost about as much as a land raider, and could probably kill it before it dumped it's contents, unless it had smoke launchers. Who'd have thought a unit meant to deal with armor was *gasp* good at dealing with armor? This sounds like the "early playtest" rumors in the other threads, and GW is probably just following what gets through to see who to fire. Like a wise doctor once said, "you need salt in your diet", and I don't think we should forsake the wise doctor just yet.
The only reason I never started a tau army was the boxy suits compared to the round everything else. If they fix that then i will be happy. If the suits just get repacked then I might do forgeworld, but will probably just skip the whole thing. I have a tau heavy walker from chapterhouse that's been sitting idol, I'd love to get it moving.
Tau are getting close, and I had another confirmation last night that they are indeed coming in April. If this doesn't start to get everyone excited for Tau, I don't know what will.
So Kroothawk may be right after all, good show if this turns out to be true
Now for the main rumor:
via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks) Broadsides - 85 pts with S8 Ap1 Skyfire; not sure if this is in place of old S10 AP1 or if the 85 points + skyfire is an option but its there Hammerheads - regardless of what Railguns are now in general, keeps S10 AP1 SMS - twin-linked, ignores cover Crisis Suits - not likely to move to Troops as an option Disruption Pods - only +1 cover
via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks) wrote:
Broadsides - 85 pts with S8 Ap1 Skyfire; not sure if this is in place of old S10 AP1 or if the 85 points + skyfire is an option but its there
Hammerheads - regardless of what Railguns are now in general, keeps S10 AP1
SMS - twin-linked, ignores cover
Crisis Suits - not likely to move to Troops as an option
Disruption Pods - only +1 cover
85 points and probably about 15-20 points for the skyfire upgrade. So probably 65-70 points base. Paying about the same cost for a -2S gun. But they did upgrade SMS... so... there's that. I remember all the games where I thought to myself how I wish they'd tone down the Railguns and buff up the... missiles... that I went for many many games forgetting they were on the Broadside.
I'm trying to stay positive. But I don't think it's working.
Lets hope they dont charge 10 more points for Flakk upgrades like they did on on DA space marines. With no split shot on them, 25 points for Missile+Flakk is a very ineffective choice for anti-air.
They said 85 points for the railgun with skyfire. So I imagine that they're including the upgrade into that. Broadsides however do have the ability to split fire, so I wonder if they're going to take that away as well.
Shas'o_iceborn on Faeit212 was I guess adding on to the S8 Railgun with skyfire. So apparently it might be that you purchase a broadside as a bare suit, then upgrade it with the different weapons. So I guess there is a chance to bring a S8 skyfire only railgun or S10 railcannons without skyfire. I'm not sure, but I've always like the idea of a stock Broadsides and purchasing Primary and Secondary weapons.
I am just beaming. Yippeee new codex! New models! New units!
The broadside railguns won't displease me--I don't build my cadre to spam one good unit. S8 Railgun? Still got Piranhas, fusion blasters, High-density Sabot, EMP Grenades, and Railheads. I can still vector dance my remoras into the rear arc then light 'em up with a seeker. I can still deep strike a monat soulcleanse right behind some punk's leman and blow it up that way too. I can still infiltrate/outflank XV15s to where the enemy is vulnerable. There's lots of ways for Tau to engage armor and almost no way for them to fight fliers. Bring on these new rail guns if that's what they are to be.
Trouble "blowing up a rhino"? COME ON just glance it to death! With yer sidearm for chrisssakes. How many armies can use their basic gun as anti-armor?
This codex has literally taken seven years to come out and people are going to complain that Broadsides are taking a hit BEFORE they get a chance to see the rest of the book?
One unit, no matter how great or bad, doesn't make or break an army! Especially a Tau army which has to work TOGETHER in order to prevail! If S8 Railguns put you off the army then you don't deserve to play the best army (Tau) anyway
The grim dark future have never look so much grim dark for Tau as with these rumors, i will jump for now on the whine/negative thinking vagon, just in case.
Anyway, lets try to remember that these are just rumors, and as such, can be partially true, or false (True rumors are a legend). Being able to purchase AA units, its not something common, S 8 AP 1 72", its pretty damm strong actually, they might get Tank-Hunters or some other Special rule to bump them up as AA, or maybe not, we can just sit on our warm train of tear till we exhaust them, or start thinking "What would they bring to the codex if they make this change?". Its pretty much a given that new units will come, not just the new suits, Special Characters, Kroots, Vespid, Flyers that can make a difference even if we have to forfeit and abandon our beloved Broadsides, it`ll be painfull, but lets get it straight, change comes, and nobody its gonna like it, but we´ll have to adapt.
Such its the path of any Codex who needs a massive revision.
3+ if flat out, and or if obscured or in cover behind your own model(?)
as long as they kept it 5 points i think it is fair. also if the wording is +1 cover and not stealth, it also adds to night fighting.
Also im hoping they get rid of the within 12" rule and keep the upgrade simple.
otherwise im pretty sure everyone saw this coming.
I think the 12" disruption pod was more limiting than it was confusing. Every vehicle was encouraged to avoid getting in close, even when their weaponry put them in danger of losing their cover bonus (Piranha and Devilfish).
SMS getting twin-linked which makes sense since they're always shown as in pairs of two missile pods taped together. Ignoring cover is nice, but most of the time won't be really worth while.
Personally I'd be extremely disappointed if I couldn't take Crisis suits as Troops. I wonder what they would put in the troop slot if that were the case. I'd even be okay with Stealth Suits pending a point and rule change.
via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)
option to have all units with 6" fire overwatch - lots of dice rolling, little effect FTW Fliers are AV10/11 with 6x S6/7 shots at BS3; not twin-linked there is a tank commander Tau vehicles can no longer fire as fast vehicles (i.e. multi-tracker upgrade gone/changed) Riptide - name of ubersuit and is an Elite choice.
via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)
option to have all units with 6" fire overwatch - lots of dice rolling, little effect FTW Fliers are AV10/11 with 6x S6/7 shots at BS3; not twin-linked
there is a tank commander
Tau vehicles can no longer fire as fast vehicles (i.e. multi-tracker upgrade gone/changed)
Riptide - name of ubersuit and is an Elite choice.
These look like repeats of older rumors. I think I've seen everything here already.
Puscifer wrote: I can see Stealth suits finding their way to the Troops choices ala Necron Immortals.
I'd welcome that. A box of 5, a points cut, throw in some form of special weapons on the sprue and it's good to go.
I can't possibly see them being troops. You'd have to take their shrouding away, because everyone would compain about 2+ cover save troops. Their weapons are already crap compared to our other troops, unless their really close to the enemy and have that amazing cover save. And they just make so much more sense as a fast attack choice.
The only troops I see being added are vespids. Close combat vespids named Spinewings. Pretty much Tau assault marines. Thats my guess.
Puscifer wrote: I can see Stealth suits finding their way to the Troops choices ala Necron Immortals.
I'd welcome that. A box of 5, a points cut, throw in some form of special weapons on the sprue and it's good to go.
I can't possibly see them being troops. You'd have to take their shrouding away, because everyone would compain about 2+ cover save troops. Their weapons are already crap compared to our other troops, unless their really close to the enemy and have that amazing cover save. And they just make so much more sense as a fast attack choice.
The only troops I see being added are vespids. Close combat vespids named Spinewings. Pretty much Tau assault marines. Thats my guess.
Oof. Those latest 3++ rumors make me a bit worried, tbh.
UberSuit being Elite, Crisis not moving to Troops, and Broadside railguns being S8 leaves a lot of competition (slot wise) for AT firepower. Especially if HHs lose their multitracker. Unless we see Crisis move to Troops, or get some other kinds of AT in the Troop slots, things get dicey very quickly.
That said, if XV8s do move to Troops, that sets up an interesting tradeoff - FWs for more bodies, or lower model count XV8 centric lists?
Natfka again wrote:via 3++ is the New Black (from inside the Chatbawks)
Broadsides - 85 pts with S8 Ap1 Skyfire; not sure if this is in place of old S10 AP1 or if the 85 points + skyfire is an option but its there.
Here is a response from a very reliable rumor checker that sometimes comes in to help us take a closer look at rumors.
via an anonymous source
They're not 85 points base, that's including their Skyfire upgrade.
They are indeed STR 8 AP 1 however on the broadside suits, then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor.
this is from the comment section of the post from earlier today.
via shaso_icebornMarch 13, 2013 at 2:10 PM or Rail Rifle S6 Ap3, Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor) and Rail Cannon S10 Ap1.
IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.
Kwosge wrote: IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.
When has anything needed to make sense in a sci-fantasy setting...
Natfka again wrote:They are indeed STR 8 AP 1 however on the broadside suits, then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor.
Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor)
There is a huge difference between these rumors, and I really wouldn't want to see Broadsides with Skyfire but not Interceptor.
Interesting thought - maybe they get Interceptor as part of their base cost? Being able to volley S8 AP1 at deep strikers on the turn they arrive would be wicked...
Natfka again wrote:They are indeed STR 8 AP 1 however on the broadside suits, then pay to add skyfire, but not interceptor.
Rail Gun S8 Ap1 Skyfire (with option for interceptor)
There is a huge difference between these rumors, and I really wouldn't want to see Broadsides with Skyfire but not Interceptor.
Interesting thought - maybe they get Interceptor as part of their base cost? Being able to volley S8 AP1 at deep strikers on the turn they arrive would be wicked...
Doubt we'd get that though.
It's more likely that we see 60-70 point base broadsides with their statline as it is currently -- then they can take an upgrade for skyfire for 15-25 points per model. However, that upgrade is likely a separate profile for shooting, which would allow them to still fire at ground targets using full BS. See the soulgrinder harvester cannon for a recent example of this.
I have no authority or inside information, but seeing the trend of GW codices in 6th ed I can see that to be true. Also take into account that when new books come out they sometimes rename weapons.
Rail Rifle
Rail Gun
Rail Cannon <-- this will likely be the s10 ap1 railgun we all currently know and love, but only available on big platforms such as hammerheads and Riptide suits.
tetrisphreak wrote: It's more likely that we see 60-70 point base broadsides with their statline as it is currently -- then they can take an upgrade for skyfire for 15-25 points per model. However, that upgrade is likely a separate profile for shooting, which would allow them to still fire at ground targets using full BS. See the soulgrinder harvester cannon for a recent example of this.
I have no authority or inside information, but seeing the trend of GW codices in 6th ed I can see that to be true. Also take into account that when new books come out they sometimes rename weapons.
Rail Rifle
Rail Gun
Rail Cannon <-- this will likely be the s10 ap1 railgun we all currently know and love, but only available on big platforms such as hammerheads and Riptide suits.
Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing with regards to the Railgun family of weapons. It'd make a lot of sense.
Also, from Warseer:
neko wrote:Well, that and a piece of wargear that improves your BS for overwatch purposes
This was in response to a question that referenced the "all units within 6" can overwatch" rumored special rule. If we get multiple units firing Overwatch at something that's charging, at say BS2 or so (or god forbid full BS) that would rather neatly solve Tau's problems with CC. Very different variant of "come at me and my bros, bro!"
Originally Posted by Mos OK firstly, Tau will NEVER have a hand-to-hand upgrade option other than a Kroot meatshield and this counter-assaulty, units-within-6 inches-get-a-popshot shooting overwatch that some have mentioned.
Well, that and a piece of wargear that improves your BS for overwatch purposes
Kwosge wrote: IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.
When has anything needed to make sense in a sci-fantasy setting...
Let's be honest,GW is doing a lot of things that customers don't like. Saying 40k is a sci-fi game isn't an excuse. And voicing opinions about what the company is doing or may do it isn't something that should be shunned.
I don't think the Railgun will get just Skyfire. It'll probably allow you to choose to fire Skyfire or not at the beginning of the turn. Interceptor would definately be a shock, since they haven't handed that out to anything besides Fortifications so far and I doubt they'd give that out easily.
I still don't like the idea of a 70 point Broadside with a S8 railgun and SMS. There hasn't been any mention of the stats, so I'm assuming it's still T4 base and 2+ save with no invul. So basically it's a worse version of an Obliterator.
And the rumor of the Riptide (Better than Uber-suit) being an elite is just plain confusing. So what are we going to see in the HS slot? Hammerheads, Skyrays, and Broadsides the only options so far. No mention of the sniper drone teams.
Fast Attack has flyers, and probably new Vespid varients.
HQ hasn't had any noticable mention that I can remember. Aside from a Kroot HQ, I'm not expecting much.
Troops/Elites sounds incredibly disappointing to me. No FOC changing HQs, so no all Crisis suit army while most other armies get to bring all bikes or all terminator lists or something interesting. Elites sound like a crowded slot again, while Troops don't get any real mention. Though I think all the FW needed was an open topped Skimmer, and I did see some mention of that.
Maybe I'm just a negative person, but these rumors all look bad. But maybe that's a good thing. Rumors that look good to me end up being bad when the army actually comes out, and vice versa. Maybe there are just so many changes/updates that the rumor suppliers can't really cover that much and just skimming the most noticable bits people want to see.
Kwosge wrote: IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.
When has anything needed to make sense in a sci-fantasy setting...
Let's be honest,GW is doing a lot of things that customers don't like. Saying 40k is a sci-fi game isn't an excuse. And voicing opinions about what the company is doing or may do it isn't something that should be shunned.
What does that have to do with your argument that One Army gets something so Second Army should get the same kind of thing based on an idea of 'realism'?
I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion or complain, I just thought the reasoning was silly. I agree that GW does things that customers don't like but that has nothing to do with shoulder-mounted weapons being the same as their vehicle mounted counterparts.
It always seems like the last couple weeks before an impending release take the LONGEST to get through. I am hotly anticipating the next White Dwarf just to get a fix on the photos and battle report of the lovely blue-skinned fish people.
Kwosge wrote: IF the rumors are true, it's kind of suspect that SMs with shoulder mount Las Cannons get full strength while Tau shoulder mounted Rail Guns have a reduced strength.
Lascannons don't use physical ammo, Railguns do. You'd have to have a Broadside carry around ammunition for it's Hammerhead-sized Railgun, whereas the Space Marine can simply draw power from his beefed-up backpack-reactor.
Except that Railgun ammo is actually very small. The only real "punch" from a railgun comes from the magnetic rail launching the shot at insanely high velocity.
Like how Missile Launchers would require ammo. But we know Devastators don't carry tho.... oh... wait.
This was just taken from the comments section of faeit 212's blog:
Gino GoetzMarch 14, 2013 at 8:58 AM Krisis ( including XV 88 )
Can fire 2 Weapons on moving ( without extra cost )
Optional Skyfire 25p ( choise at the start of the round )
And Kollos with S8 AP1 will cost 60p
If near a Special HQ, if not moving get +1 Shot.
( for a Str 10 Weapon it would be to much, for the S8 it´s strong but not overpowerd )
that is an interesting description for how the battlesuits will now work. Depending on the stats of the SMS system having the ability to fire both on the move would help broadsides become mobile again, and tackle hordes as well as tanks despite losing 2S on the railgun shots. Tacking on skyfire to make them AA further enables their usefulness, while still leaving spots in the army for Hammerheads and Riptide Suits to fall in line.
We will watch for how this develops i'm sure...but i'm still excited.
I just saw that too, Tetrisphreak. But it came from a name I don't recognize and provided no source information, or even clarified if it's a rumor or speculation.
It makes sense though to give the Crisis suit the Relentless USR, since that's what it does. XV-8's would get Jetpacks for the added movement and Broadsides get heavier firepower. I just don't see the HQ giving an extra shot, because as we saw with the DA Dakka banner it usually specifies what exact weapons are affected.
Savageconvoy wrote: I just saw that too, Tetrisphreak. But it came from a name I don't recognize and provided no source information, or even clarified if it's a rumor or speculation.
It makes sense though to give the Crisis suit the Relentless USR, since that's what it does. XV-8's would get Jetpacks for the added movement and Broadsides get heavier firepower. I just don't see the HQ giving an extra shot, because as we saw with the DA Dakka banner it usually specifies what exact weapons are affected.
Oh certainly, i wouldn't put any real money on a random comment. However, it was structured in a way that made sense to me, i could see the suits working in the way he described and the points costs with XV-88's seemed to line up with other rumor sources that Natfka has posted. I'm doing my best not to be impatient but april needs to get here soon!
Also, if any suit can get Skyfire for 25 points, that opens up a lot of options for Crisis Suits as well. FB/MP suits with Skyfire, anyone?
Also, SMS with Skyfire (on, say, a Broadside...) might be interesting as well - since the rumors say they ignore cover, that also means they ignore Jink as well. Worse chances to get those glances, but against lighter flyers it might make a difference.
It makes sense to me for Broadsides to get relentless. Including relentless in the 60-75 pts makes them closer to cost effective. It keeps with the "mobile warfare" feel of Tau. Like a less than static firing line.
Savageconvoy wrote: Except that Railgun ammo is actually very small. The only real "punch" from a railgun comes from the magnetic rail launching the shot at insanely high velocity.
Like how Missile Launchers would require ammo. But we know Devastators don't carry tho.... oh... wait.
Note how said MIssile Launchers are only S8 as well. Regardless, the Tau obviously aren't able to miniaturize the Railgun while keeping all the oomph, at least not in the upcoming fluff. The Imperial equivalent of a bigger gun on vehicles would be twin-linked lascannons, which you might note the infantry doesn't get. Not to mention the fact that the Imperium is more technologically advanced in the first place (yes, I went there, sue me).
neko wrote:I think old rumours were a little railgun happy though. I don't know if this other old rumour has been debunked, but we don't get a flying railgun either.
In response to questions about Railguns on Ubersuits. So, not S10 rails on battlesuits it looks like, and no railguns on flyers either.
Shame, since I would have loved to have S8 AP1 guns on a Tau flyer. Would've been a great air-air platform.
My main worry now is the 4++ force field in dark angels. There's absolutely no way for me to deal with 6+ vehicles, particularly vehicles with invuln/cover saves, if my railguns become s8. Sure, I do more if I pen due to ap1, but the quintessential railgun would mop up a light mech list like that- but I don't know if a full heavy support complement of s8 railguns could even reliably kill a single rhino per turn in that scenario, mathematically. Ask a space wolf player to remove 2 missile launchers from each squad, and keep them at the same cost- that's kind of like what s8 railguns would be to tau. That hammerhead railgun better be some serious business if they think it'll compensate.
I can't wait until the white dwarf comes around and proves me to be a chicken little. Or the codex comes out and people white knight a really senseless nerf.
uberjoras wrote: My main worry now is the 4++ force field in dark angels. There's absolutely no way for me to deal with 6+ vehicles, particularly vehicles with invuln/cover saves, if my railguns become s8. Sure, I do more if I pen due to ap1, but the quintessential railgun would mop up a light mech list like that- but I don't know if a full heavy support complement of s8 railguns could even reliably kill a single rhino per turn in that scenario, mathematically. Ask a space wolf player to remove 2 missile launchers from each squad, and keep them at the same cost- that's kind of like what s8 railguns would be to tau. That hammerhead railgun better be some serious business if they think it'll compensate.
I can't wait until the white dwarf comes around and proves me to be a chicken little. Or the codex comes out and people white knight a really senseless nerf.
Eh, if the issue is cover / invuls then you're screwed the same regardless if you're using S10 shots or S8 shots. Both are AP1, so have the same chance to cause an explode result on a pen. Sure, you get more pens with S10 than S8, but it's looking like Broadsides will be cheaper base in the new codex. AV 10-12 isn't really the sticking point though - it's those AV13-14 hulls we need to worry about more. If we're losing S10 guns and not getting more melta / lance / haywire options, then things look more dicey.
uberjoras wrote: My main worry now is the 4++ force field in dark angels. There's absolutely no way for me to deal with 6+ vehicles, particularly vehicles with invuln/cover saves, if my railguns become s8. Sure, I do more if I pen due to ap1, but the quintessential railgun would mop up a light mech list like that- but I don't know if a full heavy support complement of s8 railguns could even reliably kill a single rhino per turn in that scenario, mathematically. Ask a space wolf player to remove 2 missile launchers from each squad, and keep them at the same cost- that's kind of like what s8 railguns would be to tau. That hammerhead railgun better be some serious business if they think it'll compensate.
I can't wait until the white dwarf comes around and proves me to be a chicken little. Or the codex comes out and people white knight a really senseless nerf.
Eh, if the issue is cover / invuls then you're screwed the same regardless if you're using S10 shots or S8 shots. Both are AP1, so have the same chance to cause an explode result on a pen. Sure, you get more pens with S10 than S8, but it's looking like Broadsides will be cheaper base in the new codex. AV 10-12 isn't really the sticking point though - it's those AV13-14 hulls we need to worry about more. If we're losing S10 guns and not getting more melta / lance / haywire options, then things look more dicey.
While we're going crazy talking possibilities, there's a chance by the fluff that potentially EMP grenades could be fired from pulse carbines (the model itself even has the launcher modeled underneath the barrel). That would take care of AV13-14 nicely, as would a new crisis suit weapon system with the "haywire" rule, which is also entirely possible since we're supposedly getting a new XV-8 variant. The old staple fusion guns will be available too, likely on cheaper platforms (a suicide suit or piranha could reliably get to the tank and do the job).
stinkyjunk wrote: One of the earlier posts above mentioned Spinewings as the CC choice for Vespid. Remember the now debunked release list that had the following:
256146211440307 Tau Empire Vespid Stingwings / Vespid Spinewings PL a14 Len_A 03 cc
Looks like that list writer must have had ESP or something...think about it...
Or the guy who made up this new rumor got the name from that list.
Hmm. They fumble with Tau like they did with chaos and I'm out. I'm not liking this business about s8 ap1 broadsides. I have to rely on that 1 shot from railheads? Yeaaahhhh.
I don't find these rumors appealing at all, which after Chaos Cultists and Heldrakes book makes them even more believable for it.
I'm going to hold off painting anything else until I find out what's what. If it isn't redeemable in someway, or if they've messed with Crisis suit stats (taking away a wound, doing anything but decreasing the points/making them better) I'm Indifferent-quitting the hobby. I'm going to lug all my stuff up to the mountain, make a bonfire and throw it all in like Luke Barbied up Vader.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Look people worried about rumors.
Listen, we have no idea what is going to happen.
For all we know the riptide will be even better then Broadsides.
I'm 99% sure the riptide WILL be better than the broadsides... It will also probably cost x3 what a broadside does... and it will probably have rules making it a 'must have' for 6ed so they can make money on it.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Look people worried about rumors.
Listen, we have no idea what is going to happen.
For all we know the riptide will be even better then Broadsides.
The problem is why the Riptide will be better than the Broadside. If they made an awesome and expensive unit, I'd be fine with that. But nerfing a staple just to sell the new model is not a good way to do it. As before, no other Heavy weapon team got a S7 Lascannon and not many armies has had the limitations of Heavy Weaponry like Tau has.
I just thought of this too. It was mentioned that the Tau flyer would get a rail weapon, as an expensive upgrade. Is that going to be a railgun or railcannon?
hotsauceman1 wrote: Look people worried about rumors.
Listen, we have no idea what is going to happen.
For all we know the riptide will be even better then Broadsides.
The problem is why the Riptide will be better than the Broadside. If they made an awesome and expensive unit, I'd be fine with that. But nerfing a staple just to sell the new model is not a good way to do it. As before, no other Heavy weapon team got a S7 Lascannon and not many armies has had the limitations of Heavy Weaponry like Tau has.
I just thought of this too. It was mentioned that the Tau flyer would get a rail weapon, as an expensive upgrade. Is that going to be a railgun or railcannon?
It was also mentioned by Neko on Warseer today that there would be NO flyer mounted railgun. So that either means Rail Rifle(s), Rail Cannon(s), or possibly neither. Maybe only missile pods will make it into the skies. At this point so many different "sources" are spouting off contradictory rumors and it's impossible to tell what made it into the actual book.
Going by the general feel of posts, I feel like the vespid were probably ignored in terms of what they could do both in terms of anti-MEQ and Anti-armor.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Look people worried about rumors.
Listen, we have no idea what is going to happen.
For all we know the riptide will be even better then Broadsides.
No, we don't. But it doesn't seem like we're going to get lots of build options, and is basically going to be what the 'new' Chaos Codex is, the current codex+.
I'm a little worried that suit weapons will change, so you couldn't take deathrains anymore for example. Or maybe they'll be like the new hotness obliterators and have to use a different weapon every turn (if so, rage-quit montage to Ghetto Boyz Still song)
There better be a railgun or railcannon on the flyer. IoM can't be the only armies that get actual heavy weaponry on their flyers.
I know a lot of Non-Tau players think the rumors sound good because they probably don't have much experience with Tau, or just really want to bring some S8 AA as allies. For mono-Tau these look horrible. On an army with very limited access to special/heavy weapons and finding out they are toning down 1 of them and putting an expensive anti-tank into a slot generally filled with versatile elites is pretty unsettling. We haven't gotten rumors about any new tanks, so it looks like we're stuck with a single shot Railcannon as our only source of anti-heavy armor. In 5th and even now Tau weren't obliterating mech armies hands down. Now the strength that Tau had may be gone (Removing access to S10 and removing cover denying markerlights) well I don't see how it can be a good thing. Even if the Railcannon becomes a beam style attack, it won't be hard to simply not line up. It would honestly be thwarted in the deployment stage and since Hammerheads might not fire like fast vehicles it makes it hard to believe it will actually hit two targets in one shot.
Best way to put it is this. I have a majority of Crisis suits and Broadsides. There is a fine line between toning something down to rebalance things, and toning it way down to make a new model look better. Isn't that what happened to the Carnifex afterall? I'm curious, anxious, and excited to get a new Tau codex. But I'm also concerned, cautious, and trying to be realisitic about it.
Puscifer wrote: For all those who do rage quit I'll be more than happy to buy your Tau.
Just saying.
No, mine will get smashed and burned with all the books and terrain, paint, brushes, dice everything Warhammer 40k related into the burn barrel, soaked with gasoline and lit with a flaregun.
And it's because it would be very, very cathartic. Removing a blemish of wasted time and effort from my life forever, and would allow me to move on and I dare say the more I think about it, the more fun it sounds.
Tau have deepstriking meltaguns and autocannons. Broadsides are good but they're not the entire army. Broadsides will
Likely retain their 2+ armor. Also, relying too heavily on one unit isn't going to work--especially not in a tau army.
Rented Tritium wrote: I would absolutely rather have S8 broadsides if that came with more flexibility and upgrades.
Rigid design and overcosting is the main downside of the tau codex.
THIS!!!
I see a lot of moaners about even the slightest change to their army even though we have no confirmation. Surely flexibility and the fact we are finally getting a new ruleset is better than nothing at all.
I'm ok with a gradual and steady increase in railgun power. Str8 ap1 that's twin linked for cheaper costs is fine with me if they finally give all the suits bs4 like they should have and possibly that cool pass through line effect that was rumored for railguns a year or two back where any penetrating shots get to hit another model in the same line.
via an anonymous source
*Broadsides are Slow and Purposeful, 2+ and T4 now.
*They are twin linked str8 ap1 railguns and can take plasma or missiles as well.
*They have a suit upgrade that let's them at the start of a shooting phase have skyfire.
*They don't have interceptor, nor do they snap fire ground targets.
*The only thing I notice is that the unit chooses to skyfire or not. So if you use split fire, you can't mix firing at ground targets and flyers easily.
*They're really, really good.
*Semi mobile and very durable. They're the only non interceptor skyfire unit in the game that can survive flyer alpha strike.
*The tears and overreactions over out of context snippets is mind-blowing.
So now Broadsides won't be able to overwatch.
Missile pods (I hope that's what they mean) would be nice.
Really really good is odd seeing as how I don't see a noticable change aside from skyfire.
2+, T4... Yet can survive a flyer alphastrike? So... You take Broadsides and your opponent isn't allowed to take Vendettas anymore.
I still don't see how they're very durable. They don't even get an invul like Terminators or Oblits.
If they are S8 AP1 and not simply two individual railguns that is a deal-breaker. If a unit doesn't have rate of fire, it needs to have superior strength. If it has neither then it will ultimately be phased out in favor of more reliable options.
S8 AP1 Broadsides would be great if they shoot twice instead of being twin-linked. Otherwise, the ultimate shooting army will be outshot by most others in the AT department.
Edit: that latest update makes Broadsides sound even worse. How is concern an over-reaction when they got worse in almost every possible way (if they rumors are true of course)?
I think the tone down of EW is to blame for this. Can't have T5 Deamon Princes getting shot down, so now they have to remove as many S10 shots as possible.
It looks like Tau is going to be exceptionally good at fighting Tau. S8 AP1 works well at removing Crisis suits and Broadsides, so maybe they were only playtesting the army against itself.
It does seem really puzzling at this point. Obviously, Tau are going to need SOME long-range, high-strength shooting if Broadsides are nerfed, I can't imagine them overlooking this very obvious point. But what's it going to be? Maybe if Broadsides or new Mega-suits can be taken in Elite choices, Railheads in Heavy choice, Crisis suits in....some other choice. Can't imagine what though...
SonicPara wrote: If they are S8 AP1 and not simply two individual railguns that is a deal-breaker. If a unit doesn't have rate of fire, it needs to have superior strength. If it has neither then it will ultimately be phased out in favor of more reliable options.
S8 AP1 Broadsides would be great if they shoot twice instead of being twin-linked. Otherwise, the ultimate shooting army will be outshot by most others in the AT department.
Edit: that latest update makes Broadsides sound even worse. How is concern an over-reaction when they got worse in almost every possible way (if they rumors are true of course)?
Maybe it's because they're changing the dynamic of the entire army? Seriously, all of this is completely out of context with the rest of the codex, never mind that there is zero concrete evidence that these rumors are true. That aside, S8 AP1 is by no means weak, especially in an anti-aircraft role, which it seems the Broadside will excel quite nicely at. Does it limit it's usefulness against AV13/14, sure, but that's what Railheads are for (in the terms of the current codex, that is).
Seriously, all this talk of rage-quitting because of change to an army gets really old quickly. Would you rather GW just ignore the army and let us fester in all of our 4th edition glory? I know I don't. I welcome the change, and I am looking forward to employing new tactics (and possibly some great discounts from all the rage-quitters who can't handle change).
There better be a railgun or railcannon on the flyer. IoM can't be the only armies that get actual heavy weaponry on their flyers.
^^ This to the nth power. If nothing else, I want GW to get at least one Tau flyer right. That means getting at least two shots from a real weapon (something with str of at least 8). I am not asking for an ultracheap AV12 killer gunship transport, just a flier with enough offensive punch to bring down Vendettas and Heldrakes reliably. If GW can provide on that, I am willing to overlook a lot of other shortcomings in the codex.
In regard to the light railgun, the Tau could actually benefit from some str 8 ap 1 firepower. There are a lot of targets out there, such as multiwound T4 models and monstrous creatures for which str10 ap1 shots would be no more effective against than str 8 ap 1 shots, so the option to field a larger number of lower strength shots would be welcome. However, this option should be in addition to the option of fielding several full strength railguns and it goes without saying that more shots need to be provided to compensate for the lower strength.
Maybe it's because they're changing the dynamic of the entire army? Seriously, all of this is completely out of context with the rest of the codex, never mind that there is zero concrete evidence that these rumors are true. That aside, S8 AP1 is by no means weak, especially in an anti-aircraft role, which it seems the Broadside will excel quite nicely at. Does it limit it's usefulness against AV13/14, sure, but that's what Railheads are for (in the terms of the current codex, that is).
Seriously, all this talk of rage-quitting because of change to an army gets really old quickly. Would you rather GW just ignore the army and let us fester in all of our 4th edition glory? I know I don't. I welcome the change, and I am looking forward to employing new tactics (and possibly some great discounts from all the rage-quitters who can't handle change).
It's all we have to go off, so we're discussing it.
S8 is not weak, no. Provided we have access to other means to deal with Armor 13+. The Hammerhead is single shot, hasn't been mentioned to come in squadrons, and there is no other unit in the HS slot.
Yes, S8 would be good against Flyers. The problem is that it appears they REMOVED OUR KEY ANTI-ARMOR WEAPON to give it to us. Was there another way? Of course! S7 skyfire missile pods or perhaps a decent Flyer.
And seriously I'm getting really tired of people just glossing over other player's concerns. Yes, the rage-quitting may be a bit extreme, but it's not necessarily unwarranted. I for one haven't mentioned it at all, but have been heavily considering it. Maybe go for a game or army where they won't make what I have useless so they can sell me a new model. I want an update and an upgrade, who wouldn't. It seems more like they're priming Tau to be a good Ally more than a stand alone army. I don't want to be 5th ed Necrons or 5th ed Tyranids, but somewhere in between.
Maybe it's because they're changing the dynamic of the entire army? Seriously, all of this is completely out of context with the rest of the codex, never mind that there is zero concrete evidence that these rumors are true. That aside, S8 AP1 is by no means weak, especially in an anti-aircraft role, which it seems the Broadside will excel quite nicely at. Does it limit it's usefulness against AV13/14, sure, but that's what Railheads are for (in the terms of the current codex, that is).
Railheads just don't cut it to stop massed armour. They're too few, unless they can be taken in squadrons, which I really doubt, it doesn't fit Tau at all.
I realize there's probably some sort of changed dynamic in the new book, if these rumours are true: which is good because current book is really limited in this regard. However, rumours don't seem to hint to that direction: there probably won't be any FOC trickery, which means that Railheads & Broadsides will compete from HS slots and Crisis suits from Elite slots - just like in current book. New Mega-suit won't fix this dynamic, because it will compete from same slots. And it seems unlikely that Troops or FA slots will have long-range, high-strength firepower to compensate if Broadsides are nerfed.
Broadside now against an A12 Flyer.
1 BS3 twinlinked snapfiring. .333 hits
Penetrating armor 12 is a .222 pens
BS3 Twinlinked is a .75 hits
Penetrating armor 12 give .25 pens.
2.8% increase in useability. Thank you so much for this incredible buff oh glorious dice gods. I shall now shut my pesimistic mouth and embrace all that is wonderful about 40K. Somebody pass me the #$%^ Kool-aid.
Backfire wrote: New Mega-suit won't fix this dynamic, because it will compete from same slots.
Of course it will. The new unit will have ten STR 10 AP 1 railguns, each of which can shoot at a separate target, with skyfire and interceptor. And to ensure that it stays alive it will be a T10 W10 2++ MC. Oh yeah, and it will cost $150.
Anyway, the rumors are awful. If they're true it's yet another case of GW blatantly using poor game balance to drive sales: nerf the units that Tau players already have into uselessness, then release new overpowered kits that we have to buy to stay competitive.
Savageconvoy wrote: Broadside now against an A12 Flyer.
1 BS3 twinlinked snapfiring. .333 hits
Penetrating armor 12 is a .222 pens
BS3 Twinlinked is a .75 hits
Penetrating armor 12 give .25 pens.
2.8% increase in useability. Thank you so much for this incredible buff oh glorious dice gods. I shall now shut my pesimistic mouth and embrace all that is wonderful about 40K. Somebody pass me the #$%^ Kool-aid.
Don't forget that you have to pay from Skyfire upgrade!
Don't forget that you have to pay from Skyfire upgrade!
Pay for the upgrade?! At the amazingly low cost of 15Pts over the original price for an almost 3% increase from the original? I'm practically stealing it. I'm just hoping they treat Firewarriors the same way. S3 Pulse rifles and Burst Cannons keep S5. Don't worry, because they'll be put into the new "Dying for your cause" roll where they just lay down and die.
New Broadside math is correct though, but that's almost a 25% increase in power and it's way cheaper than the current Broadside.
I think you need a band-aid, not Kool-aid, because you sure seem upset for getting a better AA unit cheaper (and we don't even know the specifics yet).
New Broadside math is correct though, but that's almost a 20% increase in power and it's way cheaper than the current Broadside.
I think you need a band-aid, not Kool-aid, because you sure seem upset for getting a better AA unit cheaper (and we don't even know the specifics yet).
We were told the price was 85 points, 15 points more than the standard Broadside. So it's not way cheaper.
And so my math was off by .017. I don't see how .25 pens is worth 85 points compared to a more versatile .20 pens that also works better at everything land based.
And we're discussing what's presented. I have a feeling when we do have the codex in hand you'll be telling me to wait a few weeks till we test it all out. Then weeks after that telling me to relax because all the codex haven't been updated to 6th. Then when all the codex books are updated you'll say that we need to wait for 7th to hit before we can make a judgement call. I say again, it's what we have to go off of. I'd love to be wrong, but until something is brought up stating otherwise, this is what I'll discuss.
I don't really care about the broadside "nerf" if thats what you want to call it. I'll take 3 railheads with the blast through everything cannon for my anti heavy tank work. Then I 'll add in two flyers for antiflyer work (which is seems what they are geared to do), now add in a squadron of fusion blaster Pirahna's. And I think that will pretty much take care of most enemy armor issues. Next throw in one super suit and 6 crisis suits all sporting the new hotness in weapons for the anti infantry. Not to mention the token troops choices that we will have to take and will probably be pretty good at anti-infantry.
Seriously, why all the bitching about needing broadsides to stay the same. I thought heavy armor was no longer the meta of the game. I thought it was all now foot slogging heavy.
And this shouldn't surprise anyone, GW is famous for punishing those who have stocked up on a single model when the edition changes.
I've been thinking about the anti-armor problem that S8, twin-linked Broadsides present Tau and the only previously rumored rule change that seems to remedy it would be if the big S10 railcannon had the "draw a line" mechanic so hotly discussed years ago. That would give an expensive, single-shot S10 railcannon a lot more mileage and help compensate for the meh-ification of broadsides.
Jayden63 wrote: Seriously, why all the bitching about needing broadsides to stay the same. I thought heavy armor was no longer the meta of the game. I thought it was all now foot slogging heavy.
And this shouldn't surprise anyone, GW is famous for punishing those who have stocked up on a single model when the edition changes.
Because S8, BS3 really isn't impressive against anything but AV10/11. Sure army-wide S5 weapons can help glance them to death but for a unit solely focused on (largely) static AT fire S8 with only one shot per suit per turn is pitiful considering how much S8 or S9 firepower almost everyone else can spam for the same cost or less. In short, not only does it translate into a weak presence in the game it also betrays the theme of Tau.
Agreed on the GW strategy though. It has long been there focus and I think it is a deep-seeded source of much of the animosity towards GW.
I think it's why we're seeing so much discontent from these rumors about Broadsides. It's probably the reason a lot of people started Tau in the first place. It's an iconic unit in the Tau. GW made the decision to go 8 years between books. GW made the deicion to not add any new WD units to Tau. GW is now making the decision to take the one unit that every Tau player knows and loves and making it worse, for what we can assume to be a quick profit rather than balance issues.
How do you think any SM player would feel if LR were suddenly 13/12/12 3HP for "balance" reasons?
Jayden63 wrote: I don't really care about the broadside "nerf" if thats what you want to call it. I'll take 3 railheads with the blast through everything cannon for my anti heavy tank work. Then I 'll add in two flyers for antiflyer work (which is seems what they are geared to do), now add in a squadron of fusion blaster Pirahna's. And I think that will pretty much take care of most enemy armor issues. Next throw in one super suit and 6 crisis suits all sporting the new hotness in weapons for the anti infantry. Not to mention the token troops choices that we will have to take and will probably be pretty good at anti-infantry.
Seriously, why all the bitching about needing broadsides to stay the same. I thought heavy armor was no longer the meta of the game. I thought it was all now foot slogging heavy.
And this shouldn't surprise anyone, GW is famous for punishing those who have stocked up on a single model when the edition changes.
This. So much this. The fixation on broadsides is sickening, tbh. I've won plenty of matches without using a single Broadside. There's more to the Tau than sitting back with a Broadside gun line. JSJ Fireknives, suicide stealth suits, DPed Rail and Ionheads, and even lowly gun drones have worked wonders for me against everything from BA to Orks. A S8 weapon can at the very least glance every AV in the game, and with HP now part of the game, it's a gamble to take armor at times, anyways. All of that aside, this incessant chicken little complex so many people have is beginning to help me understand why so many other 40k players I've met think that folk who play Tau are a bunch of whiny kids.
I know that folks are probably thinking I'm white knighting GW by defending the changes, but seriously, OF COURSE they're going to change things up to try to sell more models. I fully expect it, because they are trying to make money! If they change nothing in terms of the army's dynamic, and boost already existing units, they're not going to get any money from the already established player base, because we already have what we need to be competitive! As for new players, they need stuff that looks new and fresh to draw them in, and frankly, the Tau are showing their age. GW doesn't exist to cater to our whims, they exist to provide a product that they think will sell, and they will do what they can to drum up those sales; that means new units and old ones with new roles. If you don't like it, then it's your prerogative to quit, and GW won't care a single iota if a handful of players quit, because we all know they will still make huge sales on pretty much any new army release.
I know we are all entitled to our opinions, and this is mine. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but you guys really need to take a deep breath and just wait to see what everything looks like in context when the codex drops. If it sucks, it will quickly become clear; the same goes if it ends up being completely awesome or total cheese. If it ends up being ho hum, though, things won't be quite so evident, and it will only be a matter of weeks before the killer combos begin proliferating on the net. So, yes Savageconvoy, people are going to tell you to wait and see. Patience is virtue, and I really think you need to relax a bit and not get so upset over a rumor.
Jayden63 wrote: I don't really care about the broadside "nerf" if thats what you want to call it. I'll take 3 railheads with the blast through everything cannon for my anti heavy tank work. Then I 'll add in two flyers for antiflyer work (which is seems what they are geared to do), now add in a squadron of fusion blaster Pirahna's. And I think that will pretty much take care of most enemy armor issues. Next throw in one super suit and 6 crisis suits all sporting the new hotness in weapons for the anti infantry. Not to mention the token troops choices that we will have to take and will probably be pretty good at anti-infantry.
Seriously, why all the bitching about needing broadsides to stay the same.
Well, people don't like if models they have invested lots of time & money, becomes crappy rules-wise. Not too many Tyranid players are happy about Carnifex in 5th edition codex, are they? Quite frankly, if the rumours about Broadside are true, then it just doesn't seem like very useful unit anymore.
Also, S10 AP1 Railgun is so iconic for Tau. Replacing it with weakling S8 gun, or lame Beam rule Hammerhead gun, it's like if your folks sell your favourite little brother to Toyota to serve as crash test dummy.
Um, I disagree, the iconic unit is the crisis suit. And if they took away jetpack from them, it would be bad. Reducing strength on broadside is just really getting rid of the crutch that has been the only thing you see in every Tau army, every time. Now the can expand the army to include other units that can become a possible anti-tank choice. If broadsides stayed the way they were, everything else would have to have the old railguns or just be considered inferior.
BTW, space marines don't use LRs as a crutch like Tau do broadsides. There is a reason C:SM is good, people take a huge variety of units and make them work. I feel that is a really bad example on your part.
I totally see this as a balance issue. Can't ballance a codex where one unit is at the extreme end of the scale. How do you make a weapon better then S10 Ap1 72" more shots maybe, but then again that just pushes things more extreme. I say nerf the railgun, make the hammerheads railcannon the S10 and give us more variety for antitank units.
Backfire wrote: Also, S10 AP1 Railgun is so iconic for Tau. Replacing it with weakling S8 gun, or lame Beam rule Hammerhead gun, it's like if your folks sell your favourite little brother to Toyota to serve as crash test dummy.
The railgun didn't go anywhere, just changed to a railcannon and it's still on the hammerhead.
Jayden63 wrote: I don't really care about the broadside "nerf" if thats what you want to call it. I'll take 3 railheads with the blast through everything cannon for my anti heavy tank work. Then I 'll add in two flyers for antiflyer work (which is seems what they are geared to do), now add in a squadron of fusion blaster Pirahna's. And I think that will pretty much take care of most enemy armor issues. Next throw in one super suit and 6 crisis suits all sporting the new hotness in weapons for the anti infantry. Not to mention the token troops choices that we will have to take and will probably be pretty good at anti-infantry.
Seriously, why all the bitching about needing broadsides to stay the same. I thought heavy armor was no longer the meta of the game. I thought it was all now foot slogging heavy.
And this shouldn't surprise anyone, GW is famous for punishing those who have stocked up on a single model when the edition changes.
This. So much this. The fixation on broadsides is sickening, tbh. I've won plenty of matches without using a single Broadside. There's more to the Tau than sitting back with a Broadside gun line. JSJ Fireknives, suicide stealth suits, DPed Rail and Ionheads, and even lowly gun drones have worked wonders for me against everything from BA to Orks. A S8 weapon can at the very least glance every AV in the game, and with HP now part of the game, it's a gamble to take armor at times, anyways. All of that aside, this incessant chicken little complex so many people have is beginning to help me understand why so many other 40k players I've met think that folk who play Tau are a bunch of whiny kids.
I know that folks are probably thinking I'm white knighting GW by defending the changes, but seriously, OF COURSE they're going to change things up to try to sell more models. I fully expect it, because they are trying to make money! If they change nothing in terms of the army's dynamic, and boost already existing units, they're not going to get any money from the already established player base, because we already have what we need to be competitive! As for new players, they need stuff that looks new and fresh to draw them in, and frankly, the Tau are showing their age. GW doesn't exist to cater to our whims, they exist to provide a product that they think will sell, and they will do what they can to drum up those sales; that means new units and old ones with new roles. If you don't like it, then it's your prerogative to quit, and GW won't care a single iota if a handful of players quit, because we all know they will still make huge sales on pretty much any new army release.
I know we are all entitled to our opinions, and this is mine. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but you guys really need to take a deep breath and just wait to see what everything looks like in context when the codex drops. If it sucks, it will quickly become clear; the same goes if it ends up being completely awesome or total cheese. If it ends up being ho hum, though, things won't be quite so evident, and it will only be a matter of weeks before the killer combos begin proliferating on the net. So, yes Savageconvoy, people are going to tell you to wait and see. Patience is virtue, and I really think you need to relax a bit and not get so upset over a rumor.
Stop being rational please. CODEX: BROADSIDES MAY HAVE CHANGED! OMGWTF GEEDUBBYA!
spectreoneone wrote: All of that aside, this incessant chicken little complex so many people have is beginning to help me understand why so many other 40k players I've met think that folk who play Tau are a bunch of whiny kids.
I know that folks are probably thinking I'm white knighting GW by defending the changes, but seriously, OF COURSE they're going to change things up to try to sell more models. I fully expect it, because they are trying to make money! If they change nothing in terms of the army's dynamic, and boost already existing units, they're not going to get any money from the already established player base, because we already have what we need to be competitive! As for new players, they need stuff that looks new and fresh to draw them in, and frankly, the Tau are showing their age. GW doesn't exist to cater to our whims, they exist to provide a product that they think will sell, and they will do what they can to drum up those sales; that means new units and old ones with new roles. If you don't like it, then it's your prerogative to quit, and GW won't care a single iota if a handful of players quit, because we all know they will still make huge sales on pretty much any new army release.
I know we are all entitled to our opinions, and this is mine. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but you guys really need to take a deep breath and just wait to see what everything looks like in context when the codex drops. If it sucks, it will quickly become clear; the same goes if it ends up being completely awesome or total cheese. If it ends up being ho hum, though, things won't be quite so evident, and it will only be a matter of weeks before the killer combos begin proliferating on the net. So, yes Savageconvoy, people are going to tell you to wait and see. Patience is virtue, and I really think you need to relax a bit and not get so upset over a rumor.
So having a concern for our staple unit is now acting like a whiney kid. I'm sorry our opinions differ, but my outlook on the issue does not portray me as a insolent adolescent begging for attention. I am a fan of the game and a customer. I am expressing my distaste for the rumored change of said product I purchased. Consider me a child if you must, but your words will hold no weight with me.
I also can't believe that you're defending the company making profit over working to satisfy the consumer and the veterans at that (ie loyal customers). GW should care a single iota because it's been stated before that the playerbase is getting smaller. In other words, they're chasing away their own customers. New models, new units, and new army books are all sources of profit from veteran players. They don't have to make an existing unit worse just to justify the sale of other units. Using that logic, they should make Pathfinders and Piranha terrible to justify bringing Vespid. Why not, all is fair in the pursuit of profit right?
And I'm not as upset as you think I am. I'm just tired of people like you telling me how my judgement is wrong without contesting why or how I can't make opinions about a unit without playing it. Would you say the same to people who haven't tried Mutilators? We saw the rumors for those, knew it would blow, and guess what, it did. We have rumors telling us how a unit has changed. I'm applying those changes and figuring out how it affects the unit. I'm formulating an opinion on this and other rumors presented. Yet people still insist I can't do this for some reason, that the topic is not up for discussion.
Coyote81 wrote: Um, I disagree, the iconic unit is the crisis suit. And if they took away jetpack from them, it would be bad. Reducing strength on broadside is just really getting rid of the crutch that has been the only thing you see in every Tau army, every time. Now the can expand the army to include other units that can become a possible anti-tank choice. If broadsides stayed the way they were, everything else would have to have the old railguns or just be considered inferior.
BTW, space marines don't use LRs as a crutch like Tau do broadsides. There is a reason C:SM is good, people take a huge variety of units and make them work. I feel that is a really bad example on your part.
I totally see this as a balance issue. Can't ballance a codex where one unit is at the extreme end of the scale. How do you make a weapon better then S10 Ap1 72" more shots maybe, but then again that just pushes things more extreme. I say nerf the railgun, make the hammerheads railcannon the S10 and give us more variety for antitank units.
I agree to a point, and Broadside spam is definitely pretty monotonous way to play. I actually believe that Broadsides weren't originally all that popular amongst the players. IIRC 4th edition Tau armies mostly came with triple Railheads. You didn't start to see 9-Broadside armies until well into 5th edition because that was only way to keep up with new supershooty armies like SW and GK. But I digress.
What you are missing is that the "new dynamic" can only work if Tau get something to compensate from loss of HS slots. And the rumours don't really point to that direction. Supposed new suits will compete from same FOC slots which are already overcrowded by existing choices, so they're not going to help. Well, maybe the flyer is really good.
Or maybe Devilfish will get an option for roof-mounted TL Railguns. Lets call them 'Razorfishes'....
So having a concern for our staple unit is now acting like a whiney kid. I'm sorry our opinions differ, but my outlook on the issue does not portray me as a insolent adolescent begging for attention. I am a fan of the game and a customer. I am expressing my distaste for the rumored change of said product I purchased. Consider me a child if you must, but your words will hold no weight with me.
I also can't believe that you're defending the company making profit over working to satisfy the consumer and the veterans at that (ie loyal customers). GW should care a single iota because it's been stated before that the playerbase is getting smaller. In other words, they're chasing away their own customers. New models, new units, and new army books are all sources of profit from veteran players. They don't have to make an existing unit worse just to justify the sale of other units. Using that logic, they should make Pathfinders and Piranha terrible to justify bringing Vespid. Why not, all is fair in the pursuit of profit right?
And I'm not as upset as you think I am. I'm just tired of people like you telling me how my judgement is wrong without contesting why or how I can't make opinions about a unit without playing it. Would you say the same to people who haven't tried Mutilators? We saw the rumors for those, knew it would blow, and guess what, it did. We have rumors telling us how a unit has changed. I'm applying those changes and figuring out how it affects the unit. I'm formulating an opinion on this and other rumors presented. Yet people still insist I can't do this for some reason, that the topic is not up for discussion.
Just commenting that he's defending a company that make be making changes the differ to some customer's satisfaction, but fulfilling the satisfaction of other customers. A company can't make everyone happy all of the time, and if they make some happy and make money doing it, I don't have a problem with it. I for one look forward to the changes. Now if they get nerfed and new units don't get added to fill in the holes that exist now from the str reduction. Then I might be mad. but as I've said before, I won't know until the book comes out, so I won't worry about it until then.
I think the nerf to broadsides can't be compared to nerfing the other units in your example, broadsides are on the extreme good side of what they don't, they can't really be buffed, or any other unit be buffed to be better then them, so they have to be nerfed, for other units to compete for the role in what they do.
One thing that I've noticed while using Tau in 6th edition is that Smart Missiles really pay off. Thus, the rumor that they are becoming twin-linked is music to my ears.
As a Tau player, the listed changes to Broadside Suits sound like a crazy buff. 85 points for a Broadside Suit that can choose to Skyfire, comes with Slow and Purposeful, and carries a twin-linked smart missile system? Um, sign me up? Strength 8 is plenty sufficient for most targets when combined with AP1, and Flyers will live in fear of Broadsides.
While I am a sucker for Strength 10, it sounds like it will be available in other slots, and even if not, a Hammerhead or two should be sufficient when combined with support from other Tau elements (Markerlights, anyone?) to reduce variance.
All in all, I expect the new Codex-- like GW's recent Codexes as a whole-- will offer a new and interesting range of options as well as new takes on some old favorites. Will Broadsides (or Crisis suits, or Pathfinders, or Stealth suits...) stay exactly the same? No, but I have faith that they will be interesting and viable in their own right. I for one am looking forward to exploring the possibilities that a new Tau book will have to offer!
I wouldn't really say pouring in. It's more like the rumor about broadside got so much focus that people had to keep giving out rumors to explain the confusion.
I mean seriously, we only have a little idea of the flyers and the Riptide (I'm hating the name the more I hear it) while only knowing a bit about the Broadside. Crisis suits are still up in the air with only a brief mention of some potential weapons. I think those were for the Riptide though.
To be honest, I dont like broadsides that much, they are a pretty static unit for my fast and furious tau. Give me Hammerheads anyday. I just hope they stay as menuverable as they are now.
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Desubot wrote: I cant wait for those pictures, curious what the new and improved sculpts will be that where rumored before.
also lucked out and didnt invest so heavily into broadsides.
edit: kingsley - how has the s m s been working out for you? iv hadn't had much luck with it at all.
Me niether, i have 2 cruddy conversions in my army.
Desubot wrote: edit: kingsley - how has the s m s been working out for you? iv hadn't had much luck with it at all.
I've probably won four or five games now thanks to smart missile barrages from my Broadside suits. The versatility that it grants is really unmatched, with the suits being able to engage both infantry hordes and heavy units effectively. I tend to run my Broadside Suits inside an Imperial Bastion and the ability to fire the Smart Missiles at targets outside of Line of Sight from any of the Bastion's fire ports is extremely effective as well-- many people do not see it coming or assume that their units will be safe once they maneuver out of line of sight from the primary fire ports. Not so!
Savageconvoy wrote: I also can't believe that you're defending the company making profit over working to satisfy the consumer and the veterans at that (ie loyal customers). GW should care a single iota because it's been stated before that the playerbase is getting smaller. In other words, they're chasing away their own customers. New models, new units, and new army books are all sources of profit from veteran players. They don't have to make an existing unit worse just to justify the sale of other units. Using that logic, they should make Pathfinders and Piranha terrible to justify bringing Vespid. Why not, all is fair in the pursuit of profit right?
I'm defending a company's right to make profit in what (legal) manner they as a company see fit, that's all. You think awful high and mighty of yourself and other Tau players if you think that they really should give a damn about what a small minority think. Honestly, even if I absolutely hate the Codex, if it sells, then obviously GW did something right. If, as a whole, the Codex flops, the sales will tell GW they made a mistake. As long as they profit, they don't care what players think, and you can take that to the bank, I promise. So, yes, as long as they make a profit, it is indeed all fair (again, if it's legal). But really, though, GW has repeatedly stated they are a model company, not a game/rules company, but I digress.
And I'm not as upset as you think I am. I'm just tired of people like you telling me how my judgement is wrong without contesting why or how I can't make opinions about a unit without playing it. Would you say the same to people who haven't tried Mutilators? We saw the rumors for those, knew it would blow, and guess what, it did. We have rumors telling us how a unit has changed. I'm applying those changes and figuring out how it affects the unit. I'm formulating an opinion on this and other rumors presented. Yet people still insist I can't do this for some reason, that the topic is not up for discussion.
I never once said you were wrong, nor do I recall anybody else saying you were wrong. I've only said that getting all worked up about the "iconic" (I'm in the house that Crisis suits are the actual iconic unit) unit of the Tau without context makes no sense. I've only really told you and others to calm down, take a breath, and realize this rumor is only standing on its own, and we don't know what else is coming until the Codex drops. I also never said you can't have an opinion, again, I merely stated that this is without context. You are so fixated on this single rumor and how it will ruin your entire Tau army, that any time people try to show you that it's not necessarily all doom and gloom, you fly off the handle about your precious Broadside. For there to be discussion, there needs to be rationality, and you are somewhat lacking that right now because all you see is the bad in this rumor. Really man, calm down and realize that GW isn't out to ruin your life, just your wallet.
I don't see how a couple extra S5 shots at 24" range really won you the game. It's a nice little trick, but the amount of damage you put out would indicate more that you were well on your way to victory before then. Unless you got extremely lucky against Orks or IG all 4-5 games.
I'm really curious to see the supposed changes to the Crisis suits. I'm guessing we should be seeing the first leaked pictures sometime next week.
Have to say I dont like broadside models or most tau models to be honest (exception being the hammerhead and stealth suits and of course the forge world suits)
so any redoing of the models is a welcome thing indeed
as for the rules for the rail gun always found it weird how a gun on a broadside with smaller barrow and thinner gun had the same power as the huge gun on the hammer head so will be happy to have it changed
and lets face it they are all going to be cheaper points as seems to be the new way of things
I am looking forward to the new models for tau as currently I hate the crisis suit models and refuse to have them in my army really wish they would redo the firewarrior models and kroot models
I also dont think fire warriors should have rapid fire on there rifles in the new codex nothing about the guns looks or screams rapid fire screams more bolt action
but we will all have to wait and see what they do or dont do
but my guess is fire warriors will drop to about 8 points a model
steal suits prob around drop to around 20-23points
Better hope that "no more multitracker" rumor is false, or have fun losing 6" of movement off your tanks.
I really hope this particular rumor isn't true, it would irk me far more than even the broadside nerf. Tau vehicles having to move at combat speed and then still being able to fire only a single weapon at full BS is just plain wrong. Tau vehicles should be mobile and agile just like tau suits, and the multitrackers are what make that possible.
I think that we are hearing only remembered fragments. There was a rumour that posited Crisis suits get to shoot two weapons automatically. It could be that they got rid of some of the options by adding them to the default list.
My philosophy has been that Broadsides are like Hammerheads, only with less survivability, fewer loadouts, and no submunition. Now that they have Skyfire I MIGHT consider using them... especially if the new models really stand in sniper poses. However, the Skyray may or may not be a better anti-air option. I'm excited to find out.
And I think the name 'Riptide' is very cool, and consistent with the watery names of other Tau stuff.
The name that I think sounds freaking idiotic?... "Ubersuit". Sounds like Goobersuit, and it sounds like chunks of stupidity tumbling out of my mouth.
Savageconvoy wrote: I don't see how a couple extra S5 shots at 24" range really won you the game. It's a nice little trick, but the amount of damage you put out would indicate more that you were well on your way to victory before then. Unless you got extremely lucky against Orks or IG all 4-5 games.
In several games, they were what was needed to finish off key units. For instance, in one game I fired smart missiles to kill a single Grey Hunter who was hiding out of Line of Sight, thus giving me an extra point in Purge the Alien and denying Linebreaker for my opponent. That 2-point switch turned a loss into a win, and no other weapon system in my army could have engaged the target. The ability to ignore Line of Sight as well as most cover is immensely powerful.
So, anyone with a better understanding of GW release timing know when we should start seeing WD scans of new Tau stuff? April is only three weeks away so it can't be long.
Maybe organizing the rumours into a foc will help.
HQ Farsight-still there by most rumours
Shadowsun-Still there by most rumours
Aun'va -?????
Aun Shi- Rumoured by some but still a ????
Ethereals- Ruomured as improved but don't even know if they are still in HQ???????
Battlesuit commander- Rumours seem to hint at Naked Shas'o that buys which Armour he/she will use. Still a ??????
Fire Warrior Commander- rumoured by some, if true sounds like it will be rolled into a base HQ with option to buy battlesuit of choice.
Kroot HQ- rumoured by some and denied by others?????
Vespid HQ-???????
Elites Crisis Suits- Getting some form of minimal redo but, still there by most rumours.
Stealth suits- Not sure if remaining in elites, most recent rumours speak of a removal of stealth field that is then put on purchasable drone. (My bet is that if any battlesuits make it to the troops section it will be the xv 15 and maybe xv25)
Kroot Elite- Rumoured Elite Kroot unit but not sure as to which unit.
Uber suit(Gaktide)-Rumoured 2 Rail cannons on super survivable suit.(Sounds like an expensive unit that will help spam Rail Cannons to make up for broadside change)
?????- Rumours have suggested that Vespids might move here or that there might be a Tau (Marksman) unit here. purely speculation.?????
Troops Fire Warriors- Still here..duh. Rumours of some change but nothing definitive yet.
Kroot-???Changes rumoured but unsure as to which unit goes where.???
???? Troop rumours are next to non-existant right now. Some claim a battlesuit or jetpack unit, others claim pathfinders may come here but nothing solid enough to really call rumoured.???? (Will say that I expect a drone troop choice but do not quote this as rumour.) ( Will also say that, imo, if the Tau get stuck with just kroot and FW for troops, then this release will fall flat on its face)
Fast Attack Pathfinders-New models and reworked markerlight system that may copy DE token mechanic somehow. Don't know if they stay fast attack.???
Pirahna-???No rumours???
Gun Drones- No rumours????Don't know if they will stay FA or be moved.
Vespid- Rumoured to be much improved but no details to these claims????Don't know if they stay here, become troops or elites. Only other rumour is that there will be a second vespid unit some where in the book.
Aircraft- Rumoured Tau fighter with S 7 and S 6 weapons and AV 11 & 10. Also rumoured to get some stealth or shrouding ability
Heavy Support- Broadsides- Get repurposed to sell new units. Current rumours leave them sounding like they will be decent to bad, with decent beng Hive Guard level of useful and Bad being Carnifex overprice and nerf.
Hammerhead- Sounds mostly the same. Tau vehicle are rumoured to be losing Multitracker but this could mean that they are getting upgraded to fast or some other improvement. (IMO, If Multitracker goes and no fast rule, this release will fail. Such a move would leave the Tau vehicles tied with the slowest vehicles in the game.)
Sniper Drones- ?????Absolutely no rumours??? Maybe they get moved to a better place??? Not starting a rumour, merely speculating.
Kroot Monster- Rumours about a Kroot Gnarlox. ??? Nothing solid enough to claim what armaments.
Tau Heavy Flying Transport/Bomber?????? Rumoured to be well protected and under gunned (ala D-fish). ???????
Vespid Heavy??? Nothing specific, only early rumour that there might be one????
Transports D-Fish- No rumors
Some form of open-topped transports has been repeatedly rumoured but no real specifics have been mentioned.
Weapon changes rumoured to date Broadside Railguns - drop from S10 to S8 but stay AP1
Ion Weapons - rumoured to get some form of over charging ability(Maybe an emp type rule)
Seeker Missiles - rumoured to be going away in favour of conventional missiles that fit new stream-lined Markerlight system
SMS - rumoured to becoming twin-linked but no mention as to rof, strength or ap. Are the heavy or assault? What Strength? Twin-linked 4 shot or twin-linked 2 shot?
Vespid Neutron Blaster- Rumoured change but no specifics
Pulse Carbine -rumoured to have some ability but no mention as to what
@ All posters
Let me know what I've missed or got wrong. Just did this to try and get an idea of where the fire power is going.
Seeker missiles weren't hinted at going away, it's been very vague about them. There was a weird rumor a long time ago from play testing that had some kind of corrosive effect and orbital bombardments.
And Ion Weaponry has the shutdown rule which gave a 1/6 chance to make a vehicle not move or shoot for a turn. Odds are they'll probably give PotMS the ability to cancel that out. Because "balance."
I don't see why people can get so excited about this. We are literally weeks away and we know nothing that seems to be solid except that Broadsides got nerfed to make room for the new big model, and now our Hammerhead is going to be going limited in movement to compensate for that. What's really sad is the idea that they needed to make Broadsides worse to sell the suit. Because we all know that nobody bought the Mauler/Forgefiends when they already had Oblits and Havocs.
But yeah, you got most of the rumors, or at least the most solid ones right now. Still a lot left open, which is odd since we're getting so close to release time.
I see the Broadside thing less as a nerf and more along the lines of a re-purposing inside of the army. I am concerned about the lack of the multitracker, but the DE Ravager doesn't have a multitracker either, yet it can also shoot all 3 weapons on the move at full BS. All it takes is a special rule. And maybe that's what Tau vehicles will have, a special rule that lets them shoot everything at full BS, but they still wont be a fast vehicle, thus denied the extra movement that should be reserved for the more speedy races.
Jayden63 wrote: I see the Broadside thing less as a nerf and more along the lines of a re-purposing inside of the army.
I keep seeing this mentioned. Please explain what a S8 gun can do that a S10 gun can't. If it's only brought down to justify it being an AA unit, then I have to ask why is it an AA unit. Missile pods and Skyrays would be fine taking over the Skyfire part of the army.
